From:	Michael Orion Jackson <moj0001@****.ACS.UNT.EDU>
Subject:	Re: caseless ammo
Date:	Tue, 6 Jun 1995 08:13:47 -0500

On Tue, 6 Jun 1995, Gurth wrote:

[snip]
> OTOH, in the German 4.7mm caseless round, _nothing_ is ejected from the gun
> apart from the bullet.
>
> >This is (and my second point...) because the firing pin must hit a metal primer
> >which in turn ignites the powder. There must be SOME metal involved in the
> >process, thus there is no true caseless ammo.
>
> The 4.7mm round has a primer in the back of the round, I don't really know
> what this is made of, but it does not need an ejection mechanism to get rid
> of it. My guess is that it burns up on firing... You could, for example,
> make it of a metal that burns together with the propellant (what, you
> thought all metals were as fire-resistant as steel? Try chucking a piece of
> rubidium into your fish tank...)
I'm not entirely certain, but I think the G-11 uses an electric ignition
system with a rotating bolt. Basically, the round (bullet, propellant,
sensitized chemical ignition compound(primer)) drops down into the bolt
when the chamber is vertical. The bolt rotates 90 degrees and an
electric "sparker" ignites the "primer." Although primer usually
means a
tiny metal box with an impact sensitive explosive inside, I don't see why
an electrically sensitive compund could be used for the same purpose
(i.e. igniting the main proppellant). The round travels down and out the
barrel as usual, the bolt rotates another 90 degrees, another round drops
in, and so on. Again, I am not certain if this system was ever used,
although I know that it was at least researched by the US army about
fifteen years ago (read about the concept originally in a USArmy research
periodical). The advantages of the system:

1.High rate of fire. (No need for a firing pin to mechanically cycle)
2.Semi-Sealed action (less way for crap to get into the gun)
3.HUGE magazine capacity (each G-11 magazine had something like
45 rounds, and three could be carried
in the weapon at any one time)
4.Reduced maintenance (see advantage #2)

ILLUSTRATIONS: (the attack of the annoying ASCIIart)
ROTATING BOLT (in firing position)
/
___/
_______________________________ /___\ _____
BARREL <||||| <-------Electric ignition
_______________________________ ___ -----
\___/


Magazine Rounds
\ /
_________\___/________________
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^/^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ | ^ <----Bullet
|#|#|#|#|#|#|#|#|#|#|#|#|#|#| | # <----Propellant
|#|#|#|#|#|#|#|#|#|#|#|#|#|#| | #
|#|#|#|#|#|#|#|#|#|#|#|#|#|#| | #
-----------------------------
/|^|\
| |#| | <----Rotating Bolt after round has
| |#| | dropped in
\|#|/


As a side note, the properties this system has concerning high rate of
fire might explain the SuperMachineGun class appearing in FoF. Maybe
Ares dug up some old USArmy research and decided it was worth a go.

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>

__________________________________________________________________________
|Michael Orion Jackson |"A college student is a mechanism for |
|moj0001@****.acs.unt.edu |converting caffeine into finished |
|>Flaming is immature.< |homework" -unknown, but perceptive author |
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