| From: | Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Re: Rules for firing stance ans silenced weapons |
| Date: | Tue, 15 Aug 1995 00:41:28 GMT |
> > Greg James writes:
> > I have created some optional rules for firing stance (hip vs. shoulder) and
> > silenced weapons. I welcome your feedback about them.
I haven't seen these yet... Demon's mail is a little squiffy at the moment,
so maybe they're still lost in a RAID array somewhere.
> Cool, firing stance rules, something I've often wondered about w.r.t.
> recoil. And silencers, not actually something I've ever wondered about, but
> obviously something that needs a little expanding/fixing in SR.
>
> > GMs: assume that, when players are moving with weapons drawn, they are
> > in a hip stance unless they state otherwise. Players can move in firing
> > stance, but are less likely to make perception checks in their peripheral
> > vision (-1 to target number in front 60 degrees, +2 outside that cone)
> Do you think perhaps a movement reduction is appropriate for moving in this
> stance? Is it any slower/more difficult to move?
Not with practice, but it does tend to cut your visibility. I noticed the
loss of peripheral vision was much greater with the longer, heavier L1A1
SLR than with SA80.
Accuracy, though, is up by an order of magnitude in my experience. Expect
to make hits on a man-size (Figure 11) target almost every time from the
shoulder at 100 metres, using a rifle from the shoulder. From the hip?
Forget it.
> > When hip firing the following rules apply... Characters cannot take aim
> > from a hip stance unless they have a laser sight, and ultrasound sight, or
> > a smartgun. If so, the maximum bonus is -1, -2 for a smartgun.
>
> I assume you mean by taking aim the rule in SR about spending simple actions
> and getting -1 per action to the TN? Also, does one still apply the normal
> -1 for laser sights and -2 for smartlinks to the TN?
I'd assume so. (All my experience is with iron or optic sights as far as
rifles and MGs are concerned). With a laser or smartlink, you have sighting
data and can refine it as necessary whether from the hip or from the
shoulder: you're not using the iron sights on the weapon, so the point
is moot.
You certainly couldn't aim from the hip with iron or scope sights, though.
> > When in a firing stance the following rules apply... Aim time bonuses are
> > now unlimited.
>
> That same rule again I take it? Don't you think that there maybe should be
> some limit? Otherwise someone could aim for long lenths of time in severe
> conditions and still only need 2's.
I assume "aiming" without any augmented sight *requires* the weapon to be
braced in the shoulder anyway.
> > For the purposes of our discussion, we're going to call a silencer a
> > mechanism to attenuate muzzle blast only. A suppressor is a mechanism to
> > attenuate muzzle blast and slow the bullet to subsonic speeds.
If the bullet is not already subsonic, as in the case of most .45 pistols
and almost all 9mm weapons firing 147-grain bullets... Just me being picky.
> So a silencer is really only a flash suppressant for supersonic ammo, but it
> works as a true "silencer" for subsonic ammo? While a suppressor works as a
> true "silencer" for supersonic ammo, and is unnecccessary for subsonic
ammo?
> (I use "silencer" here in my laymans terms, as in the thingy you see in
> movies that makes guns make a soft "thwap" sound when they fire, not in the
> more technical or precise term you've used it.)
Yep. A suppressor leaves you with a supersonic bullet, but no muzzle blast.
A silencer leaves you with a subsonic bullet and no muzzle blast.
> > Carbine-type assault rifles, shotguns, and assault cannons cannot have any
> > type of silencing. Incidentally, carbines can't fire rifle grenades either.
>
> Why couldn't carbine type assualt rifles get silencing? I wouldn't imagine
> the barrel length would be the problem, after all, SMG's can be silenced.
Largely due to incomplete combustion of a rifle load's propellant in the
short barrel. Carbine-pattern rifles tend to have more muzzle blast than
their full-size siblings already. I wouldn't say it was impossible to
suppress them, merely that it would be less effective.
And I'd adjudicate rifle grenades on a case-by-case basis. The Mini-Uzi
can mount a STANAG 21mm muzzle attachment that allows it to fire bullet-trap
rifle grenades, and I've seen M4 carbines (the shortened M-16) likewise
do it.
> Also, why couldn't carbines use rifle grenades (besides the obvious that the
> grenade launcher is probably longer than the weapon, which, hey, does look
> cool, and could be worked around I imagine)?
Oops, see above. Write first, think later...
There is the small point that SR has no rifle grenades as yet... I can't
remember if my mega-gear list (on Paolo's web page at least) included them
or if they're on the list of things still to be done.
> > All firearms firing silenced have their weapon power cut in half (round
> > down), and their damage code reduced one level (L damage stays L).
>
> Ooohh, _that_ bad? You said sucky penetration and damage, and you weren't
> lying.
Sounds too extreme, especially for .45-calibre. The new US Army Offensive
Handgun (a rather nice 12-shot .45 automatic by Heckler and Koch, very
similar to their USP) uses a silencer, but there's almost no effect on
lethality: the bullet is already subsonic, the only need is to muffle
the muzzle blast.
> > Any eligible firearm with a base damage code of L can use a silencer with
> > standard ammuntion. When so equipped, it can only fire SA or else it loses
> > its silenced benefits.
>
> So there can be no silenced bursts?
Again, sounds too extreme from talking to people who've fired MP-5SDs.
> I'm curious as to what would happen if you fired subsonic ammo when using a
> suppressor (either the gas bleed model, or the baffel one it doens't really
> matter). Would you end up with a really slow bullet? Even more sucky
> penetration and damage?
No, not with a properly designed suppressor. The MP-5SD series act as
suppressors by this description, but you can load 147-grain +Ps to get a
subsonic load with excellent stopping power (still better ballistics than
most unsuppressed pistols) to eliminate the supersonic "crack" of the bullet.
It works just fine in full-auto.
> Otherwise the rules sound really great. Excellently researched and very well
> thought out indeed. You don't feel like constructing a set of recoil rules
> do you...? <grin>
Actually, I'm working on it... Raise shields! Carp inbound!
--
When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better
or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him.
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
