From:	Vincent Pellerin <Vincent.Pellerin@***.GMC.ULAVAL.CA>
Subject:	Big elementals (Re: ?from my mind?
Date:	Wed, 6 Sep 1995 21:55:26 ADT

The 5 sept. I wrote


>Thats why we created in my group (dare i say it) an House rule!!
>
>it goes like this
>
> All damage taken as a result of spellcating and summoning can only
>be healed
>with time, no magical healing, no biotech (first aid). This was to stop
>the proliferation of force 11 elementals...

The reaction to this simple statement was astounding to me, ad from multiple
listmember...Sebastian, Kelly, Mark, gurth (and maybe others).

Than i looked... I forgot to put a smiley at the end of the last
line, this was supposed to be taken with a grain of salt. But I will explain
why i said it.

When i began playing SR the political situation was strange, This
was a merging of two groups playing from 6 month to a year. Each group saw
its own munchkins in actions. So very fast discussion where made on what to
change on the rules.

The group that we had joined, did have a mage who summoned some (not
a proliferation) strenght 11 elementals. This was Shadowrun FIRST edition.
With a charisma of six, this can make a serious wound Physical (in fact S1).
Some karma gave you automatic succes for the summoning (SR1 again). A treat
spell, couple of days and voila!! You begin the run with a force 11
elementals. The mage did it two or three times.

When the merging was done the GM's decided that to stop this and
instituted the rules mentionned earlyer.

When the transition came to the second edition we kept this rule to
keep this in check, but, there was never a case where we did used it since.
I never played with a force 11 elemental...

Sorry... I'll try to be clearer next time.


Wed, 6 Sep Mark wrote..

>yes force 11 spirits have thier uses but lacking dice pools or threat
>rating it is quite easy for a decent guy with a gun or sword to
>flatten them (simple it don't have enough dice), never mind damaging
>manipulations against which they get no armour at all.

I believe dice pool are dealt in prime runner (i don't have it , can't quote)
They CAN have Threat ratings (I've seen it in some module).

A gun would have to get by an armor of 22 (SR2 p219) and use is willpower
instead of is firearm skill or armed combat. (if the spirit is even
manifested that is).

I believe a force 11 elemental is a terrible weapon, a one shot weapon,
usefull to survive some dangerous situations. But if for you they are so
easy to kill, your campaing is on a higher power level then mine... :-]

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