| From: | "S.F. Eley" <gt6877c@*****.GATECH.EDU> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Re: Interesting Idea |
| Date: | Thu, 14 Sep 1995 15:08:56 -0400 |
> Yeah - but you all forget one important point: All non-shamans don't
> believe in the existence of totems, because noone ever saw one.
Piffle. How many people on this planet believe in God, or gods, of one
sort or another? That's right, most of them. Now how many people on this
planet believe they have actually SEEN or experienced their god? Much
fewer. The correlation is not 100%, ergo there are people who believe
in things they don't see. QED.
(Personally, I believe in Invisible Pink Unicorns, but that's a different
story entirely...)
> [ . . . ] This is quite important. If totems gave prove
> of their existence (like covering the body with tattoos and giving
> magic resistance) even the hermetic mages would try to contact
> them/work with them/use them.
Why? Heremtic mages have their own power to play with. It's tidy, it's
consistent, it's scientific -- just what most mages want. Now why should
they want to mess around with inconsistent, flighty personalities like
totems? If they were really of a mindset to interact with totems, they'd
probably be shamans, not mages. Besides, if the mage DID for some reason
want to use shamanic power, where would he start? If the mage succeeds in
"contacting" or "working with" a totem, isn't he by definition a
shaman?
You can admit the existence of something without wanting to use it. There
are many magical systems that I believe in, without wanting anything to do
with them. And there are probably magical systems that don't want anything
to do with ME.
> [. . .] So the concept that totems do not affect the real world
> directly and that they never give prove of their existence is
> important for the whole Shadowrun-world.
Important for YOUR Shadowrun world. What you're saying makes sense, but
it's only one interpretation of the Shamanic Path. Other GM's can interpret
it differently, and still have it make perfect sense in their world.
Read Mary Kuhner's "Jayhawk" stories. They're on Paolo's site, among
others. In her Shadowrun world, the Matrix is a magical construct, and
deckers are practicing a particular form of magic. It's very different
from my Shadowrun game, and probably from yours. Would you argue that
they're not playing Shadowrun anymore? If so, you're welcome to keep
that opinion, but I (and probably Mary Kuhner) disagree with you.
> [ . . . ] I didn't say the story is total crap
> (although if anyone ever read/heard something about how shamans become
> shamans he would know that the indians made vision quests, which means
> they were seeking the totem CONSCIOUSLY - but only if they thought
> they heard them calling)
In the Native American Nations, I believe they still do that. But that's a
cultural phenomenon, and in Shadowrun the totems don't limit themselves to
the Native American culture. Their presence is stronger there, but only
because they're more acknowledged. For cultures that don't practice vision
quests, there must be a way for the totem to reach the shaman.
Would you also argue that Native Americans who aren't shamans don't believe
in totems either? And that all Native Americans believe their shamans are
deluded? If YOU know anything about Native American culture you know that's
ridiculous, but that's exactly what your earlier statement implies.
> O.K. - that's it - I think this topic was discussed enough now, I
> think... bye...
Heh. It's discussed enough when everyone finishes discussing it. Not
simply when YOU feel you've finished.
Blessings,
_TNX._
--
Stephen F. Eley (-) gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu )-( Student Pagan Community
http://wc62.residence.gatech.edu| OS/2 WARP:
My opinions are my opinions. | Virtual machines. Virtual memory.
Please don't blame anyone else. | Virtual documentation.
