| From: | Tom Pendergrast <pendergr@***.EDU> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | RE: (whatever it is now) WAS : Mages vs Shamans |
| Date: | Mon, 13 May 1996 23:11:32 -0700 (PDT) |
> >'overpowered' have been heavily cybered... mind you, I have never played
> >a mage, nor am I terribly partial to them... when I believe I'm (or
> >someone else) right, I'll defend that strongly))
>
> This is where I can't see the "light" of your statements. You've got a
10th
> grade initiate and you can't call that overpowered.
((Lemme change that. Sure, in YOUR campaign, this mage may be
overpowered. I'm just saying that in my four years of playing SRII, the
only chars that I have seen to unbalance the game, that is, overpowered,
have been the cyber guys.))
> I don't know if I could
> build a samurai to be on par for overall dice effectiveness (aka "power")
> with a 10th grade initiate even if I had access to delta clinics and toys
> galore (I could build one specifically designed to fight one, but that's
> kinda pointless).
((It isn't possible to directy corellate the power of two different char
types. In our campaign, my semi-cybered char is generally the most
powerful. That is, given a random situation, he has the most to
contribute. However, the mage is best at taking people down in
combat.... but not always. Max, (my cybered char) could probably beat Garth
in combat. However, a dozen mid-powered sammies would smear Max, while
Garth would take them all down in a second...))
> You're saddled with defending the mage because you brought him up and seem
> quite determined to see your side of the argument through to the end.
((That's right. If I believe that I am correct, I will argue something
all day long.))
> >((He gathered enchanting materials himself. His initiate group (which
> >the dues for were hellish, and we're not just talking cash) had a
> >library.
> So he dumped a lot of cash into the magical group and used a free library of
> unlimited level...
((Which he had to justify the use of each time he wanted it... or the head
of the group would not allow it... "Um, yessir... no sir, I'm not
planning on doing <whatever>, I realize that such things would break the
strictures of the group. Yessir, I'm researching a more powerful
stunbolt... yessir, so I can take down other mages easier without killing
them...))
<that last statement brings me to another thing that I'll get to later...>
> He also never paid for the right to go and collect
> valuable magical material from the sites which he claimed it ("I'm just
> going to go to the old orichalcum farm and harvest a few nuggets, the owner
> won't mind").
((No. He did several favors (read : 'runs) for the different Cascade
tribes, and some members of the NAN for the use of their land...))
> Then there's the cost of the lab (assumed to be another free
> perk of the group).
((That he bought himself. Its in the sub-level of his house, a couple
miles into the tribal lands... <I think, he's not my char...>))
> >His lifestyle was upgraded to a permanent high in lieu of
> >payment for a (LONG) run into Aztlan that took 14 gaming sessions... the
> >car came with. Most of his cash was spent on helping out the other
> >runners.))
>
> Permanent high lifestyle? One million nuyen is quite the payout for a run.
> Especially to a single player. Albeit 14 sessions could be a lot of time
> and maybe it was worth it to the paying party to drop 1M for the job to
> be done.
((Beta wires? Tactical computer? Cultured bioware? Yup... (those were
just examples of things that could have come out of that run...) Yeah, 1
mil is alot of cash... but over a month of game time went by on this
run... and the opposition was in the class of (toxic) Blood Spirits and
varios Aztechnology guards...))
> As I mentioned before, throwing money to the other characters is throwing it
> away and no sane shadowrunner would do that without significant return.
((As I said before. An investment in the team. Yeah, very significant
return... a job better done, and an easier time doing it...))
> > Heavy security armor : Street Samurai Catalog
> > Gel-Packed armor : Fields of Fire
> Gelpacks treat armor as hardened. Which heavy security armor already is.
((AFAIK, h-security armore isn't hardened... the only armor that is, is
Military armor out of FOF. Anyway, the point is, the armor is/would be
hardened... either way, between that and the barrier spell, the cannon
round stops.))
> I am very sure of what I'm talking about here. He can't shoot through it.
> He's got a TN modifier to even see through it.
((He's only got a +1 to see through it, which centering can remove.))
> He can't cast any other spells while it's up because it's exclusive.
((Exclusivity or no, it doesn't matter, once he locks it.))
> I have a habit of burning magekin's hides with every word they give me.
> You're a bit singed on the left, could you turn over please? And feel free
> to reply... I want more words.
((I now see the difference between the two of us. I argue because I
believe I'm right. You argue simply to twist other people around, and to
fuck with what they say in such a manner that it has no bearing on the
discussion... which is what you're doing. I'm no magekin (whatever the
hell that means, but I can guess), in fact, I've never even played a
mage. If you're going to 'burn' somebody, be sure of who you're talking
to and what you're talking about, or take your burning elsewhere.))
---Tom---
