From:	Unknown sender
Subject:	None
Date:	Unknown time and date

(First if all, I'm sorry for sending this to the list, but I
can't find Bull's address. Oh well, it'll be interesting to see other
people's feedback..)

One episode that could be changed into a SR adventure without
much alteration would be the snake rattle. It's the one where a NA who
just isn't quite up to the requirements ot be a shaman becomes a doctor
instead. He gets ahold of a rattle that will completely cure a patient
after it kills someone else first. Perhaps if you're feeling _realy_
sadistic, have him be part of the next DocWagon team that shows up.

Oops da "I'm sure that this'd get the shaman's attention" Ogre
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 17:46:33 +1100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Calvin Hsieh <u2172778@*******.ACSU.UNSW.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Bye de Bye!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.93.961211215558.1810F-100000@***>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 11 Dec 1996, Tim Cooper wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Dec 1996, Spike wrote:
>
> > Xmas break?
> > Already? It's only the 11th....
> >
> > We don't finish 'till friday 21st....
>
> <snotty little gloating voice>
>
> Ha ha!
> Been out since the 5th!
> I'm freeeeeeeee!
>
> </snotty little gloating voice>
>
> 'course I have to go back on Jan. 3rd. :(
>
> ~Tim
> :)
>
Hey, I beat you all - I got out on the 28th November and don't have to go
back until the beginning of March!

Shaman
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 01:53:58 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Bye de Bye!
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 05:46 PM 12/12/96 +1100, Calvin Hsieh wrote:
>
>Hey, I beat you all - I got out on the 28th November and don't have to go
>back until the beginning of March!
>
>Shaman
>
Someone's living in the southern hemiphere and is on Summer break, not
Christmas break...

Smartass...:):):)

Bull
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 00:56:28 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Magicians
In-Reply-To: <n1361804871.35655@********>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

OK Quick Question: Can you lock, quicken, ect., a Controle Actions spell?

Czar Eggbert
-"I know who I am and who I could be if I want to..."
Don Quixoti
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 00:01:14 -0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <loki@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Martial Arts Rules
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Can aynone give me the web-adrss of this mentioned amrtial arts Rules
again?
> I trashed it already..
>
> Thanks
>
> Guido
> (The one who is always forgetting to give his correct name in this...)

Don't know which ones you are referring to.

I have some optional martial arts rules in the S/R area on my page. Just
follow the link in my sig.

@>--'--,--- Loki

/>
/<
[\\\\\\(O):::<======================================-
\< Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki
\>


"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 00:11:51 -0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <loki@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Yet more emag stuff..
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> The new web page should be up tonight, I still have to make it ;)
The
> url with be http://www.geocities.com/area61/6112 It will have info on
the
> mag, the ShadowRN FAQ's, and anything else I feel like putting up.
>
> Fro

I got a URL not found error on this address. Ah well...

@>--'--,--- Loki

/>
/<
[\\\\\\(O):::<======================================-
\< Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki
\>


"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 09:33:41 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Marcos Adi <adimar@*******.CO.IL>
Subject: Re: Martial Arts Rules
Comments: To: Guido Hölker <guido@******.COM>
In-Reply-To: <199612111147.MAA07177@***>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 11 Dec 1996, Guido Hölker wrote:

> Can aynone give me the web-adrss of this mentioned amrtial arts Rules again?
> I trashed it already..

I have made minor modification to the regular martial arts rules that
make them much more realistic.
first martial arts attacks are handled the same way every other attack is
handled. i.e attacker attacks v.s a target number. if the attack is
succesful than the attacker hit hit target. if not that he was blocked or
missed.
the target number for martial arts attacks is the martial arts skill of
the oponent.

also i make a difference between:
fist strikes reach 0 (str/2)L damage taking a simple action
and kicks reach 1 (str)M damage taking a complex action.

(trolls get +1 on reaches)

if you want to make a difference between several different style, change
the unarmed combat skill. cyber weapons are transfered to armed combat
(after all they are weapons even if they R implanted.)
your martial skill becomes a general skill.
-well rounded martial art having fists kicks and grapples in equal proportions
just treat it as a regular general skill
-martial arts that emfesiz(sorry) certain aspects but doesn't lose the
rest. the skill is still general but with modifiers. (the total
bonuses\penalties for the 3 moves, i.e fist,kick,grapple , must total 0)
for example shotokan karate (+1 kick +1 fist -2 grapple)
-martial arts that loose one of the 3 moves are treated as concentrations.
(the modifiers for the 2 moves remaining must total 0 with no single bonus
being greater that 1)
for example TaeKuwanDO is a concentration +1 kicks -1 fists.
-martial arts that have only one skill are treated as specializations.
no modifiers are possible.
for example boxing is a fist specialization.

note that the martial arts bonuses are comulative with the the initial
bonuses for conecntration and specialization

Hope this helps.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
adi marcus \ adimar@*********.net.il
---------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 01:25:30 -0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <loki@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: nunchucks
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> STUN DAMAGE??? Are you kidding? I would hardly call it stun when they
> shatter skulls and break arms! (Trust me, I have a friend who is a black
> belt x?-degree in Tae Kwon Do, and is certified in numerous weapons,
> nunchucks included. He's used them in fights more than once. They can
> *kill*.)
>
> -Tom-

Getting hit with a baseball bat (espeically in the hands of a troll) is
probably going to crack ribs and shatter a limb or so, but clubs in
Shadowrun do stun damage. I'd say these nunchucks would keep to the same
category.

@>--'--,--- Loki

/>
/<
[\\\\\\(O):::<======================================-
\< Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki
\>


"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 01:28:54 -0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <loki@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: nunchucks
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> > >STUN DAMAGE??? Are you kidding? I would hardly call it stun when
they
> > >shatter skulls and break arms! (Trust me, I have a friend who is a
black
> > >belt x?-degree in Tae Kwon Do, and is certified in numerous weapons,
> > >nunchucks included. He's used them in fights more than once. They
can
> > >*kill*.)
> >
> > So can base ball bats, clubs, 2x4's, maces, flails, etc..... Which are
all
> > stun based. The same thing could be said for the bone breaker MA's its
all
> > for game balance and playability.
>
> All the more a reason to use one of the various over-damage rules: a
> weapon doing Stun damage can go all the way up to Physical that way.
> Another way is to use the optional rule from page 83 of Fields of Fire:
> add +4 to your TN to allow a Stun weapon to do Physical damage.

I agree with Gurth on this, what your the black-belt friend is doing with
the nunchucks is probably what the +4 modifier from FOF is taking into
account, rather than just bludgeoning attacks, he's going to primer targets
and called shots which in turn create physical damage. Base I'd still rule
nunchucks as a club/staff/flail style weapon doing stun damage.

@>--'--,--- Loki

/>
/<
[\\\\\\(O):::<======================================-
\< Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki
\>


"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 01:38:38 -0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <loki@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Re Assault Cannons
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> > Now I may hate myself (as a GM) for asking this, but where is the +2
per
> > shot as a shotgun coming from, have I overlooked or forgotten something
> > over the years?
>
> SRII (not errata) pg 89....."Double the recoil modifiers for heavy
> weapons [specifically, medium and heavy machine guns and shotguns].
> If a medium machine gun is fireing 10 rounds, and has 6 points of
> recoil compensation, its final recoil modifier would be +6 (9-6=3; 3
> doubled is 6)."
>
> I left in the second sentence for the previous questions about how
> the doubled modifier is applied.
>
>
> --Droopy

Cool! I probably just forgot to apply the whole shotgun idea becuase I
wasn't grouping it under Heavy Weapons. Thanx for the info.

@>--'--,--- Loki

/>
/<
[\\\\\\(O):::<======================================-
\< Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki
\>


"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 04:26:11 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: nunchucks vs other weapons
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

>Actually, someone got killed the other day when someone plunged a
>screwdriver into the guy's stomach - all because of a traffic incidence.
>
>Shaman

I never said you could do but with swords in the case of the executioners
sword you could do it. I just used the screwdriver reference for a visual
description.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

If you have to ask then it's probably classified.
Which means that I have to follow protocol.
But if you ask nicely I might forget that you asked.
Then again maybe not.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 09:53:22 -0800
Reply-To: mmclaugh@*******.eeng.dcu.ie
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark McLaughlin <mmclaugh@*******.EENG.DCU.IE>
Organization: Dublin City University
Subject: Re: FASA and Hollywood
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Q (not from Star Trek) wrote:

but I honestly don't
> > think any company could do justice on it, especially in the plotline. Try
> > fitting a SR novel into 90-120 minutes. Even the short story in the main
> > rulebook would be hard to fit into 90 minutes. I think it would probably
> > fit better into a TV series, but the chances of that happening are, I
> > imagine, rather poor. But if FASA ever does get it off the ground, more
> > power to you, and I'll be watching :)
>
> How about a mini-series?
>
> ---------------------------------------
> I used to think I was indecisive. Now, I'm not so sure.

I`m not sure... I think the genre could be captured fairly well if the
effort was taken to research the world. You never know!

Mark McL
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 10:00:36 -0800
Reply-To: mmclaugh@*******.eeng.dcu.ie
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark McLaughlin <mmclaugh@*******.EENG.DCU.IE>
Organization: Dublin City University
Subject: Re: Bye de Bye!
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Calvin Hsieh wrote:
>
> On Wed, 11 Dec 1996, Tim Cooper wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 11 Dec 1996, Spike wrote:
> >
> > > Xmas break?
> > > Already? It's only the 11th....
> > >
> > > We don't finish 'till friday 21st....
> >
> > <snotty little gloating voice>
> >
> > Ha ha!
> > Been out since the 5th!
> > I'm freeeeeeeee!
> >
> > </snotty little gloating voice>
> >
> > 'course I have to go back on Jan. 3rd. :(
> >
> > ~Tim
> > :)
> >
> Hey, I beat you all - I got out on the 28th November and don't have to go
> back until the beginning of March!
>
> Shaman

I finished on the 19th and I dont have to go back until around the 19th
of January!! But then I have exams... DOH!

Mark McL
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 11:17:58 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Guido Hölker <guido@******.COM>
Subject: Stripping Spell Locks from dead Magicians
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Question: if you kill a mage with an active spell lock, how
>do you strip the spell lock off of him? I don't think you
>can, because when the lock is active it isn't present in
>the real world, and only the mage it was bonded to can turn
>it off.
>
Doesnt the rules state that any mage of the same tradition can
activate/remove it?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 11:18:01 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Guido Hölker <guido@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Grounding **sorry, wrong name***
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Doesn't matter - no harm done. By the way: Does your Email address
>mean that you work at FanPro and have some connections to the guys
>doing the translations of the SR Sourcebooks ?
Yup.

(I'm still thinling about your answer to the lock/grounding-stuff, will come
back to this later.)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 11:18:04 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Guido Hölker <guido@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral link **+Wrong name**
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Agreed. So each watcher is always linked to every living being.

Why is that?
>You can do it with _ritual_ magic. Not ascanning. And following your
You can _follow_ this link with ritual magic. Rmember: The Question was: Is
there an astral link, not: Why is it so easy for a mage to follow it to it's
own body.
>(oh - just as a sidenote: Yes, this mails does contain irony. Did you find
>it? :-)

I'm trying..
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 11:18:07 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Guido Hölker <guido@******.COM>
Subject: Re: 6 gas vents on a minigun (was Re: Assault cannons)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>You mean I did something good? *grin*

Actually: Yes.
(And I'm still interested in critics and please don't mention tranbslations
from 1993; of these I know they are quite bad in some places...) but for
most newer things I would love to hear what is so bad about them..
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 11:24:38 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: Gradual Initiation (was Re: SR Comp Comments)

"Robert Pendergrast (Tom)" writes

> Try watching a friend's grade 9 quest to get to grade 10!!! (And make it
> which is the SCARY thing... lucky sob...)
>
But the target number for initiation quest is twice desired grade
rating!

And around grade 4 rating 10 quests are pretty repeatable.
The cutoff comes at rating 12, 12's being 3 times rarer on the dice
that 10's. given the likely amount of dice for the rolls (average 10 -
12 or so) even for very high grade magicians 12's are just not
common, ok karma helps staggeringly but.
Roleplayed is a different story, but then FASA's example is HB! thats
rated at rating 15! though it is on beyond beyond the citadel and
multiple people as well.

Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 11:26:49 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: nunchucks

Robert Pendergrast (Tom) writes
>
> We have found that 3 10D wounds (I'm guessing you're using
> gamma-scopolamine from the Corp-Sec book)
Thats the beast, couldn't remember the name.

> in a simple action was too
> lethal. So we ruled that you would handle it like a burst: 13D. I know
> that it would be more realistic to handle it a 3 10Ds, but that is
> nasty. With the other simple action you would get 6 10Ds! Possible 60
> boxes? That's a little nuts. Just my 2 Yen.
>
Thats what i thought. Fortunately the gun the fires it (probably
squirt, i haven't read the book for a month or two) counts as a 4L
for dodging, claim a full dodge and you're ok.

Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 11:31:21 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Shielding

Justin Pinnow writes

> > : Thats my interpretation. Actually thats more like it. I had said he
> > : takes damage. (i rule you have to stage splls all the way down so
> > : shielding is not immunity to force 6 magic) so by the book these are
> > : the same thing actually.
>
> Isn't that what shielding is, though? Just extra dice to resist a
> spell? (No, I haven't forgotten about increased attribute ratings, but
> that wasn't the point.) ;)
>
The problem is willpower 6 + 6 shield is 12's even assuming perfect
conditions. attacker 1 sucess in 36.
Vs a force 6 manabolt the defender needs 6's, realistically unless
the attacker has a LOT more dice, and 6 magic pool for 12 is most
likely (basic fair grade 0's) the defender has a 6:1 advantage, an
the attacker needs a net success. Not immunity in the true sense but
its so close it might as well be.

Having seen target numbers climb over 24 in game (PC prodviding the
shield) before lighting, cover, movement etc! i see shielding as very
nice even having to stage spells to nothing the hard way

Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 13:23:49 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: [SR2] Dual Nature

Robert Pendergrast (Tom) said on 9:38/11 Dec 96...

> I don't have my books handy, so I'm going from memory here. OK, here's my
> take on this dual-nature thing. Being dual-natured basically means that
> a creature exists both in the physical plane AND the astral plane at the
> same time, right? SO, wouldn't that mean that you DON'T have to ground
> through his body, in fact you CAN'T ground through his body; You would
> just hit him with the spell from the astral, IN the astral, and treat the
> attack like he was IN the astral. I remember reading something like
> this, but I'm not sure... oh well.

You can ground spells through dual-natured critters (an astrally
perceiving magician is a dual-nature critter). However, for nearly all
spells there is no difference between casting the spell at the critter's
aura and grounding it into its physical body. Only physical area-effect
spells will ground out and affect people standing nearby the critter's
physical body, and even then only if the critter doesn't resist them
completely.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Oh wow! Oh wow! This is really, really heavy, man!
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 13:23:49 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Genetics and immortality

Joachim H A Buchert said on 22:06/11 Dec 96...

> Very well. First off, how is immortality gained:
> 1) From a gene
> 2) From a Free Spirit's Hidden Life power
> 3) From magical items (The Eternal Rose)

4) From a Horror (Aina and Ysrthgrathefkshkbmwsrhnerwhatever, for example)

> Different types of immortality, sure:
> 1) You will not die from old age
> 2) You will not die from physical harm
> 3) Both of the above.

1a) You will not age (very important -- not dying of old age means you
can still suffer from all the problems old people generally suffer from,
like bad eyesight, going deaf, dementia, and so on, but for you it won't
end when you're 70 or 80 or 90 or ...)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Oh wow! Oh wow! This is really, really heavy, man!
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 13:23:49 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Stripping Spell Locks (was Re: Magicians)

David Buehrer said on 7:00/11 Dec 96...

> Question: if you kill a mage with an active spell lock, how
> do you strip the spell lock off of him? I don't think you
> can, because when the lock is active it isn't present in
> the real world, and only the mage it was bonded to can turn
> it off.

Not quite. Any magician can remove a spell lock, upon which "the link is
broken and the lock goes dormant" (SRII page 138).

> One could argue that the bond is broken when the mage dies,
> but if the bond is broken when the mage is killed, does the
> lock materialize in the real world, or does it go floating
> off into astral space?

IMHO spell locks are deactivated when the person they're bonded to, dies.
That would make them visible to the mundane eye again.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Oh wow! Oh wow! This is really, really heavy, man!
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 13:23:50 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Bye de Bye!

Calvin Hsieh said on 17:46/12 Dec 96...

> Hey, I beat you all - I got out on the 28th November and don't have to go
> back until the beginning of March!

I got out around mid-July.

In 1994.

Beat that :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Oh wow! Oh wow! This is really, really heavy, man!
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 13:23:49 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Spelllocks....

Georg Greve said on 15:29/11 Dec 96...

> [ by the way: That reminds me of the scene where a burst (3 bullets as
> we all know) from a distance of about 50m killed that one mage (he was
> held busy magically). When we searched him (he had 4 foci in the size
> of a coin on totally different parts of his body) the three bullets
> had hit all four foci and destroyed them... *giggle* ]

Maybe you should get Oliver Stone to make a movie out of this incident :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Oh wow! Oh wow! This is really, really heavy, man!
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 13:23:49 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Rarity of Initiates (was Re: Gradual Initiation)

Robert Pendergrast (Tom) said on 10:05/11 Dec 96...

> Ok, you that's 1 out of 800... how many people are there in just the
> seattle area in 2050??

3,106,000

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Oh wow! Oh wow! This is really, really heavy, man!
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 13:23:50 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: FASA and Hollywood

GRANITE said on 23:25/11 Dec 96...

> It is picking the lock instead of busting down the door..When
> Hollywood is ready for some fresh ideas You guys will be there...And
> the boxoffice will be primed for it...

And I'll have to wait for it to come out on video... Damn cinema around
here hasn't even shown Dragonheart :(

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Oh wow! Oh wow! This is really, really heavy, man!
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 13:23:49 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: [SR2] Enchanting improved by Initiation?

Spike said on 12:38/11 Dec 96...

> |(Charisma + Intelligence + Willpower)/2 for the Astral Combat Pool,
>
> Hmmmmm. Used to be Magic + Sorcery + (Willpower or Intelligence, can't
> remember).
>
> NOT divided by two.... (Astral pools of 14 were quite common)

That's because SRII uses two pools for astral space, whereas SRI only had
a single pool.

> |their initiate grade, see Grimoire page 91. This Astral Pool can be used
> |for any test to which either the Astral Combat Pool or Magic Pool
> |applies, when the character is astrally perceiving or projecting.
>
> So in other words, the only reason this increases is because Magic Rating
> increases.....

Yes. Get an extra initiate grade and you get an extra die. That also means
that magic loss doesn't affect the initiate Astral Pool -- a grade 10
initiate with a Magic rating of 1 still has 10 Astral Pool dice.

> The Astral Combat pool is a combined magic and combat pool for astrally
> projecting mages, isn't it?

No, it isn't. It's _only_ for astral combat, like the normal Combat Pool
is on the physical plane. For spellcasting and all that, you use your
regular Magic Pool (although the astral space rules refer to it as
"Astral Magic Pool," but they nowhere say how to calculate that, so it
would be best to assume it's the regular Magic Pool).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Oh wow! Oh wow! This is really, really heavy, man!
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 13:23:50 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: FASA and Hollywood

Richard Jury said on 19:46/11 Dec 96...

> I'm not too sure how I feel on a BT or SR movie being made. I don't know
> all that much about BT to be honest, except it has too many supplements ;)
> I obviously would go see a SR movie if it came out, but I honestly don't
> think any company could do justice on it, especially in the plotline.

I don't know if Mike was around on the list the last time the SR movie
thread came up (as always, it got started as "Who would you like to see
play what parts in an SR movie?") but as I recall some pretty good reasons
were given why an SR movie would *not* be a good idea for people who like
the game... Just look at the way Johnny Mnemonic got turned into a movie,
and Gibson was closely involved with that! (For the record, I still
haven't seen JM, but the bits I /have/ seen, have still not changed my
mind about not wanting to see it.)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Oh wow! Oh wow! This is really, really heavy, man!
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 12:24:23 GMT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Georg Greve <greve@*******.HANSE.DE>
Organization: Nightmare on Coin Street
Subject: Re: Grounding **sorry, wrong name***

Guido Hölker (guido@******.COM) wrote:
: >Doesn't matter - no harm done. By the way: Does your Email address
: >mean that you work at FanPro and have some connections to the guys
: >doing the translations of the SR Sourcebooks ?
: Yup.

Ah. So you can maybe tell me why the translation of so many
sourcebooks is so bad ? Was it intended to create a new RPG or was it
just due to some people not paying enough attention ?
(no offense intended - I'd like a serious answer)

: (I'm still thinling about your answer to the lock/grounding-stuff, will come
: back to this later.)

Sure - I'll be here. ;-)

Later,
Georg

--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The Clan's are marching 'gainst the law - |
| bagpipers play the tunes of war - death or glory I will find - |
| rebellion on my mind" |
| Grave Digger - "Rebellion" |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Georg Greve greve@*******.Hanse.DE |
| Tel.: +49-40-23809080 greve@*******.uni-hamburg.de |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 15:02:00 MET
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Silvio Sampietro <cyric@*****.NETSURF.DE>
Subject: Re: Magicians
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 15:58 11.12.1996 +0000, The Digital Mage wrote:
>On Tue, 10 Dec 1996, Robert Pendergrast (Tom) wrote:

>If he knows he's going into combat he uses ritual sorcery to sustain it
>for a few hours -so he doesn't have teh +2 TNs but neither can it be
>grounded through :)

Uhhhh how does he do that trick? I´m kinda extremely interested in this.
Hope I get an answer b4 tomorrow when my next run will start. *grin*
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 08:06:06 -0500
Reply-To: jpinnow@*****.edu
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@*****.EDU>
Organization: University of Michigan Cancer Center
Subject: Re: Magicians
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Sanction wrote:

> > If they lock the deadly version, you are looking at 20 combat
> >turns before the spell takes effect....that's not going to happen in
> >combat.

> I believe, and I may be wrong, that the treat/heal spells (and actually all
> permanent spells) take effect immediately. That means, in the phase that
> the spell is cast, the damage is healed. However, the spell must be
> sustained for the time set (20 turns for Deadly damage, or whatever)
> otherwise the effect is not made permanent, ie the damage returns. So, the
> locked treat (why would you use heal, the whole point is to use in combat
> right after the wound is sustained, not an hour later) would then be a big
> advantage because the damage would be repaired on the next simple after the
> wound is taken, and no one has to waste concentration for 20 turns
> sustaining the spell in order to make the healing permanent.

<Snip of signature>

[This post was originally sent to my personal mailbox by mistake instead
of the list.]

I really don't think that's how permanent spells work. I guess I will
have to check again, but I thought that nothing happened until the time
had passed. Thus, heal and treat aren't combat spells. Hell, ANY spell
that takes up to 20 combat turns to enact isn't a combat spell. ;)
Which is why a spell lock with heal in it wouldn't be a big advantage,
according to my view of how the spell works. Your turn the lock on,
then 20 combat turns later, up to a deadly wound is healed. Then you
turn the lock off and save it for another use later, etc.

Justin
--
_____________________________________________________________________________
Justin Pinnow
jpinnow@*****.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 08:13:36 -0500
Reply-To: jpinnow@*****.edu
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@*****.EDU>
Organization: University of Michigan Cancer Center
Subject: Re: Magicians
Mime-Version: 1.0
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[This message was accidentally sent to my personal mailbox instead of
the list.]

Caric wrote:

> > Okay, now I have some more words of wisdom for you ;) If the sammie
> > has that low of an essence, the mage will have to succeed in casting a
> > heal spell at TN 10! (9 if you round in favor of the mage, can't
> > remember) That's a pretty hefty TN...good luck getting more than one or
> > two successes at that....only a couple of boxes healed...hell, with
> > enough overflow damage, the sammie may still be beyond deadly damage...

> Unless of course the mage can center to lower target numbers and has access
> to any karma pool which would allow him to re-roll dice that were not
> successes.

True, but I don't see you getting 10 successes (as would be required for
the situation mentioned in a previous post) even with centering and
karma pool available...unless you have a large centering skill and/or a
large karma pool. If that's the case, it's not just the Heal spell that
you are really good at, is it? Thus the point becomes moot. :)

> > Also, my second point...since the locked spell would have to be
> > sustained for the same length of time as the normal heal spell, your
> > sammie would have to have the lock turned on for 20 combat turns in
> > order to have any chance of healing a deadly wound, etc. Keep in mind
> > that heal spells are rarely cast successfully during combat. Why?
> > Because they have to be sustained longer than most combats take! Thus,
> > your combat monster would only be as deadly in combat as before, and he
> > would be healed the same way as usual when being healed by the party
> > mage, but the mage doesn't have to actually cast the spell...not that
> > much of an advantage over other locked spells.

> Well this is true as long as in your game the healing does not take effect
> until the full duration is sustained. We have been playing since the
> second edition rules came out that the spell takes effect instantly, but is
> not permanent until the required time has passed, so if the mage goes
> unconscious or the spell is defeated astrally before permanent the damage
> comes back. If you do not play this way (that may be a rule we made up i'm
> really not sure) then you have a valid point.

I could be wrong, but I have always thought that permanent spells must
be sustained for the required amount of time before becoming effective.

> > One other note. Since locked spells have to have some things pre-set
> > (so to speak), it would make perfect sense that a spell lock containing
> > a heal spell be set as a particular type of heal spell (Light, moderate,
> > serious, or deadly wound level). If the would level it is set at is too
> > low for the damage that has been taken, turning the lock on has no
> > effect. If they lock the deadly version, you are looking at 20 combat
> > turns before the spell takes effect....that's not going to happen in
> > combat.

> Ok I can see where this would help, but does that mean that you are
> predetermining what wound level you are healing? Sort of like using heal
> from first edition?

Doh! I believe I got my wires crossed on this one. That is first
edition rules. Just ignore that part. ;)

> Caric

Justin :)
--
_____________________________________________________________________________
Justin Pinnow
jpinnow@*****.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 13:12:22 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Magicians
In-Reply-To: <19961211.221817.23495.7.lobo1@****.com> from "John E
Pederson"
at Dec 11, 96 10:18:02 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|>If he knows he's going into combat he uses ritual sorcery to sustain it
|>for a few hours -so he doesn't have teh +2 TNs but neither can it be
|>grounded through :)
|>
|Wow. You can do that? Where is the info?

It's in the main book under ritual sorcery....
You can donate successes (in a similar way you do when restricting or
expanding an area effect), and each success donated is worth one hour of self
sustaining....

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 08:26:39 -0500
Reply-To: jpinnow@*****.edu
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@*****.EDU>
Organization: University of Michigan Cancer Center
Subject: Re: Grounding through mages (was: Re: Spelllocks....)
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Georg Greve wrote:

> Justin Pinnow (jpinnow@*****.edu) wrote:
> : Okay. I don't see why grounding through a link is necessarily "abusive"
> : of the link or anything else. It may very well be just another way to

> Maybe because it is the way grounding is introduced and explained in
> the SR books ? But of course there is even more to it (see new thought).

> : utilize a link. The fact that a link must be destroyed to be grounded
> : through has no precidence when it comes to living beings...only physical
> : objects. Even then, it only destroys the current link....that means the
> : item can still be rebonded...it isn't necessarily destroyed. Also, as

> Right. The corpse isn't necessarily destroyed - but the magical/soul
> part is.

I don't see why the soul is considered destroyable as a physical object,
but the body is not. That doesn't make sense to me. My argument was
that the being's link with their spirit is not a material object that
can be destroyed via grounding. Thus, their body can take damage, but
not their spirit (or link to it).

> : you well know, Shadowrun isn't very good at allowing you to cast a
> : single spell to completely kill someone....same with guns, etc. It
> : usually takes a couple of hits. Thus, by your definition of what is
> : required to ground through a living being, it would almost never happen
> : anyway. Thus, mages would have almost nothing to fear by being astrally
> : active all the time because the chances of a mage awaiting them on the
> : astral being able to cast a spell that would completely overcome their
> : resistance and do deadly damage is pretty darn slim.

> Not if they already have 9 points of damage on both condition
> monitors... ;-) ...then you could easily cast a spell that will
> completely kill the other guy and then ground through.

If you have 9 boxes of damage in each condition monitor and you enter
astral space, you DESERVE to be killed. Besides, you don't need to
ground to do it...a quick astral combat will do the trick too. ;)

However, the point I made still stands.

> And by the way: Although this shouldn't be a "rules" argument (novels
> never really are), take a look at the T-Bird fight in "Nights Pawn" (I
> think it was that book) where they start fearing for grounded-through
> spells when the mage is weakening. They fear she could be overcome
> (killed) and the fading link between soul and body could then be used
> for grounding through. This is how it makes perfect sense in my
> eyes.

Since this is a book, the author has creative liscense. This
description can be used to support your views of the astral link between
body and spirit, but don't expect others to do the same. ;)

Also, using the above example (I'm only going on what you wrote, because
I haven't read that particular novel), the astral link can be used for
grounding more easily because it has been weakened. That doesn't mean
that grounding through the link would weaken it further, nor does it
mean that the link can be destroyed by grounding through it. All it
means is that the mage is more vulnerable to grounding due to his
weakened state....you can describe it however you like, but the game
term effect is still the same as I mentioned.

> And a completely new thought: If grounding through weren't a terribly
> abusive thing you could pull off stunts like having one Mage or PhysAd
> there with Astral Perception going somewhere because he is known not
> to have any agressive spells/powers and let another mage use his link
> for grounding some spell through... even if you say "consciously
> allowing" doesn't work (although I don't see why it shouldn't if it is
> no abuse of the link as you say) you could still lower your resistance
> because you know grounding through is not going to kill you. It isn't
> even going to do you any harm...

Uh, no. :) If you don't ground through successfully, NO ONE would take
any damage (except maybe the casting mage due to drain). Thus, it would
be a completely wasted effort. Sure, have your psycho magical duo
ground through each other, but if mage a succeeds in grounding through
mage b, then mage b will take damage from the spell (and so would anyone
close to mage b, if it was an area effect spell).

Also, your body and willpower would resist spells as normal...I don't
see how there is a way to voluntarily allow yourself to not
resist....you can choose not to use spell defense, etc., but your
attributes will always do their best.

> : Just my opinion. :)

> Isn't it always ? ;-)

Yep. :)

Justin
--
_____________________________________________________________________________
Justin Pinnow
jpinnow@*****.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 08:35:09 -0500
Reply-To: jpinnow@*****.edu
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@*****.EDU>
Organization: University of Michigan Cancer Center
Subject: Re: Astral link
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Tim Cooper wrote:
>
> On Wed, 11 Dec 1996, Sascha Pabst wrote:
>
> > On 10 Dec 96 at 12:17, Tim Cooper wrote:
> > [snip seeking for "silver cord" reference]
> > > Just about every other game that uses the whole "Astral
Projection"
> > > concept (in one form or another) mentions a little silvery cord that
> > > connects you back to your body...it's like an astral umbilical cord. It's
> > > most likely a hold over from that.
>
> > Tim, this I know, but as some here wanted to "exploit" this idea to
follow it
> > either themselves or have other people follow it, it would be worth looking
> > into FASA's referencs for this. And there aren't any, IIRC.
> >
> > So please, make sure to note any idea on "following the line" clear as
a
> > house-rule, and do not tell me "it must be there because of the effect of
> > repercussion (SRII, p.147)", else each drop of blood must draw a line back
to
> > your body - you can link through it. And don't tell me it "must be there
> > 'cause a magician _can_ find his/her body", since watchers can do the
trick,
> > too.
> >
> > Sascha
>
> Huh? I was just stating how the idea came about.
>
> As for "following the line", well that (though not a documentable fact in
SR) could easily be
> accounted for with the test that you (being a lost astral body looking for
> your meat body) can make to find your body.
>
> Depending on your concepts and interpretations of how things run in astral
> space, you *could* reason that every drop of blood gives a link back to
> the owner..it just takes one heck of a lot of work to find and follow it.
>
> (hell, in Burning Bright, Truman's son's shirt is used in ritual sorcery
> to find him..)
>
> Realistically speaking, what's stopping an organized corp security team
> from sweeping the sections of their building where us runners have been
> (and possibly been involved in fire-fights) looking for things like hair
> and blood samples to turn over to Magical Security...especially if what
> was taken is very important.
>
> But, your right, this is all speculation and falls into the realm of
> "house rules" in most cases.

No it doesn't. I am sure it's stated somewhere that blood and such from
a crime scene can be used for a limited amount of time as a ritual
sorcery link. There is even a table that tells you what the TN
modifiers are and how long the samples will be useable as a link with
and without proper preservation...check the grimmy. (I would guess
that's where it would be.)

The whole idea behind ritual links is that they are a part of the person
(blood, ect.) or an item that they are closely associated with (T-shirt
from Burning Bright). It is also possible to link from something that
has been handled by the target recently, even if he has never touched
that object before that time (i.e. it's not his favorite shirt), but
it's just harder to do. There are TN mods for this listed somewhere.

> ~Tim

--
_____________________________________________________________________________
Justin Pinnow
jpinnow@*****.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 13:32:07 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: Grounding through mages (was: Re: Spelllocks....)

Georg Greve writes
>
> And a completely new thought: If grounding through weren't a terribly
> abusive thing you could pull off stunts like having one Mage or PhysAd
> there with Astral Perception going somewhere because he is known not
> to have any agressive spells/powers and let another mage use his link
> for grounding some spell through... even if you say "consciously
> allowing" doesn't work (although I don't see why it shouldn't if it is
> no abuse of the link as you say)
This is discussed in awakenings with respect to spirits.

> you could still lower your resistance
> because you know grounding through is not going to kill you. It isn't
> even going to do you any harm...
The fireball however is another story entirely! :)

Note there are only 3 standard spells that go area effect when
grounded, powerball, fireball and hellblast, the rest are
manipulations and won't dround or mana or sustained etc etc. All
these hurt the poor epicenter like mad :)

However the research power area stun spell makes life real fun :)

Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 11:35:53 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sight Unseen <toabo@****.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Recoil house rules suggestion
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

<SNIP>
>> Now if you had a percentile-based system that stresses realism, you might
>> be able to come up with some good and accurate rules for this sort of
>> thing, that hopefully are playable as well...
>
>Um...no. I may think that some things need changing in SR, but going
>to a percentile system is not one of them. If I wanted to do that
>I'd still be playing Top Secret <nostalgic sigh>.
Wow, so it wasn't just my group. Of course, the way we played Top
Secret, we might as well have been SR. <smirk>


Enigma
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 08:39:13 -0500
Reply-To: jpinnow@*****.edu
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@*****.EDU>
Organization: University of Michigan Cancer Center
Subject: Re: Magicians
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Czar Eggbert wrote:
>
> OK Quick Question: Can you lock, quicken, ect., a Controle Actions spell?
>
> Czar Eggbert
> -"I know who I am and who I could be if I want to..."
> Don Quixoti

I would say no. Why? Because control actions is a variable spell...you
have to have a mind behind it to say exactly what actions you want to
have the target perform...I don't see an object of being able to decide
that.

Justin
--
_____________________________________________________________________________
Justin Pinnow
jpinnow@*****.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 08:41:27 -0500
Reply-To: jpinnow@*****.edu
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@*****.EDU>
Organization: University of Michigan Cancer Center
Subject: Re: Stripping Spell Locks from dead Magicians
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Guido Hölker wrote:
>
> >Question: if you kill a mage with an active spell lock, how
> >do you strip the spell lock off of him? I don't think you
> >can, because when the lock is active it isn't present in
> >the real world, and only the mage it was bonded to can turn
> >it off.
> >
> Doesnt the rules state that any mage of the same tradition can
> activate/remove it?

Yes, but I don't know if tradition even matters.
--
_________________________________________________________________________=
____
Justin Pinnow
jpinnow@*****.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 13:46:01 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Bye de Bye!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.93.961211215558.1810F-100000@***> from "Tim
Cooper"
at Dec 11, 96 10:00:39 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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|> We don't finish 'till friday 21st....
|
|<snotty little gloating voice>
|
| Ha ha!
| Been out since the 5th!
| I'm freeeeeeeee!
|
|</snotty little gloating voice>
|
|'course I have to go back on Jan. 3rd. :(

<Even Snottier gloating voice>

He he!
Don't go back 'till the end of January
(Apart from 4 exams in the middle)

I'll be free-er longer.... Ahaaaaa!

</Even snottier gloating voice>
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 13:55:25 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Magicians
In-Reply-To: <Pine.HPP.3.95.961212005407.19810B-100000@*******.creighton.edu>
from "Czar Eggbert" at Dec 12, 96 00:56:28 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

|
|OK Quick Question: Can you lock, quicken, ect., a Controle Actions spell?

You can quicken, lock or anchor ANY sustained spell....

So the answer is yes....

<Evil grin>

(Control thoughts would be more..... subtle though)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 22:40:13 +0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matt Bruce <matt@*****.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: FASA and Hollywood
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"

Gurth <<gurth@******.NL> wrote:


>GRANITE said on 23:25/11 Dec 96...

>> It is picking the lock instead of busting down the door..When

>> Hollywood is ready for some fresh ideas You guys will be

>> there...And the boxoffice will be primed for it...

>

>And I'll have to wait for it to come out on video... Damn cinema

>around here hasn't even shown Dragonheart :(


I'm afraid that your bad situation gives me some cause for elation. I though it was just
here in the arse end of the earth who didn't see movies until they'd been released on
video in the US?!


DragonHeart actually started here in Perth today. I hope to go see it early next week
(ahhh, summer holidays...).


I think the worst instance of this was when Star Trek: Generations was released. It was
released on November 11th (from memory), but it didn't open here until JUNE!! How pathetic
is THAT??


Anyway, this isn't exactly on topic now, is it? :)


Merry _Festive Season_ and a Happy (Western) New Year! (dontcha lurve political
correctness? ;) )


Cya!





--

..........................................................................

: <italic>"Take thy beak from out my heart, and take thy form from off my
door!" </italic>:

: -- Edgar Allen Poe, <italic>"The Raven"</italic>
................................. :

:......................................: Matt Bruce, matt@*****.net.au
:.:

: http://www.tower.net.au/~matt
:


:...............................:
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 15:38:21 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Guido Hölker <guido@******.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA and Hollywood
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

... Just look at the way Johnny Mnemonic got turned into a movie,
>and Gibson was closely involved with that! (For the record, I still
>haven't seen JM, but the bits I /have/ seen, have still not changed my
>mind about not wanting to see it.)
I found the movie quite good, actually. Of course it wasn't too close to the
short story and I think a SR movie would be different, too, but why not? You
have to chnage a few things for movie's sake and ga away from sticking too
close to the rules, but I don't see any problems with getting the flavour of
the world transferred (as long as they don't make a 2056 Libanon out of
Seattle where everyone is waving assault guns all the time)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 15:38:24 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Guido Hölker <guido@******.COM>
Subject: German Versions
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Ah. So you can maybe tell me why the translation of so many
>sourcebooks is so bad ? Was it intended to create a new RPG or was it
>just due to some people not paying enough attention ?
>(no offense intended - I'd like a serious answer)

None taken.
Maybe you can give a few examples? I'm not sure if you are talking about
translatons plainly (which may be just bad work by the translator, but I
don't recall it that bad) or maybe about changes we made with intend? (which
I consider youite good mostly abd I would be happy to explain).
Please bear in mind that I'm working for the company but beeing only
partially involved in SR Stuff.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 09:46:25 U
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Collins <steve_collins@********.ALEWIFE.KODAK.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA and Hollywood

RE>>FASA and Hollywood 12/12/1996


>And I'll have to wait for it to come out on video... Damn cinema >around
here hasn't even shown Dragonheart :(

Well I highly recommend you rent it when it comes out it was a pretty good
movie (much better than I expected
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 15:02:17 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Rarity of Initiates (was Re: Gradual Initiation)
In-Reply-To: <199612121224.NAA22316@**********.xs4all.nl> from "Gurth" at
Dec
12, 96 01:23:49 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

|
|Robert Pendergrast (Tom) said on 10:05/11 Dec 96...
|
|> Ok, you that's 1 out of 800... how many people are there in just the
|> seattle area in 2050??
|
|3,106,000

3,106,076
(There'd been a few birth between your post and mine....)
-(;-})
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 08:14:32 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: FASA and Hollywood
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
> Just look at the way Johnny Mnemonic got turned into a movie,

I did and I liked it..

> and Gibson was closely involved with that! (For the record, I still
> haven't seen JM, but the bits I /have/ seen, have still not changed my
> mind about not wanting to see it.)

Why wouldn't you want to see it??? There are some really good portrayals of
the way things could be in that movie..I thought it was a great first
step toward a real SR movie..It introduces the
lifestyle..Deckers..Samis..implant Tech..Some of the same exotic
weapons..as well as the Mr Johnson concept..and the basic plot "the
runner will be screwed by just about everybody"..What's snot to
like???
-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
=================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 11:33:49 -0800
Reply-To: bluewizard@*****.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Bye de Bye!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> I got out around mid-July.
> In 1994.
> Beat that :)

OK. I was done May 12, 1992.
But I suspect that Pete Sims can beat us all here.
<Not that you're old or anything Petey :-)>
--
Steven A. Tinner
http://www.ncweb.com:80/users/bluewizard/
FAMOUS LAST WORDS
"I'm the King of the castle, you're a dirty rascal."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 11:53:16 -0800
Reply-To: bluewizard@*****.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Big D Clue
Comments: To: shadowgm@********.stucen.gatech.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

While perusing my new copy of the SR Companion, I noticed something
rather interesting in on of the charts.
Since some of this might be considered SPOILER material I'll just . . .

















Drop down here.
There, that's better, consider the following.
SRC pg. 69 - Conyact Knowledge Table

Looking at the table we see a series of fictional relies to an unasked
question regarding the death of Dunkelzhan.
Each successive answer gives more detail.

"Hey, did you hear that the Big D died?"

"What are your sources saying about Dunkelzhan's pyhsical remains?"

"Sheesh! I ask one lousy Yak one lousy question about security on
Inauguration night, and she couldn't run out on me fast enough. What's
the connection?"

"Nadja Daviar can't be as squeaky clean as she looks. Get me the name of
her personal shopper and I'll show you the dirt behind her ears."

The last two are particularly interesting . . .

"Project Ragnarok obviously mean something to somebody. Will you be the
lucky recipient of my certified credstick, or should I go to one of my
other contact?"

"What does the phrase 'techno-magical elf cabal' bring to mind in
reference to our late, lamented president?"

Somebody refresh my memory?
Has Project Ragnarok been used in SR before?
It sounds VERY familiar to me, but I can't trace its origin.
Also, isn't Ragnarok the final battle in Norse mythology wherein Thor
slays Jormungand (sic?) the Midgard Serpent?
Midgard Serpent sure sounds like it could be Dunkelzhan . . .

AFA techno-magical elf cabal goes they now have my vote for the "Most
likely to have killed The Big D" award.

<Am I starting to sound like Mulder? :-)>
--
Steven A. Tinner
http://www.ncweb.com:80/users/bluewizard/
FAMOUS LAST WORDS
"I'm the King of the castle, you're a dirty rascal."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 12:50:07 U
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Collins <steve_collins@********.ALEWIFE.KODAK.COM>
Subject: FWD>Big D Clue

Mail*Link(r) SMTP FWD>Big D Clue

Not wanting to spoil anything for anybody I think I'll keep the spoiler
space.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>The last two are particularly interesting . . .
>
>"Project Ragnarok obviously mean something to somebody. Will you be the
>lucky recipient of my certified credstick, or should I go to one of my
>other contact?"
>
>"What does the phrase 'techno-magical elf cabal' bring to mind in
>reference to our late, lamented president?"
>
>Somebody refresh my memory?
>Has Project Ragnarok been used in SR before?
>It sounds VERY familiar to me, but I can't trace its origin.
>Also, isn't Ragnarok the final battle in Norse mythology wherein Thor
>slays Jormungand (sic?) the Midgard Serpent?
>Midgard Serpent sure sounds like it could be Dunkelzhan . . .
>
>AFA techno-magical elf cabal goes they now have my vote for the "Most
>likely to have killed The Big D" award.


Project Ragnarok sounds like Winternight from the Threats sourcebook. If you
havn't seen it they are nasty. A global conspiracy of among other things
Toxic Wolf (Fenir) and Raven Shamans following Norse Mythology dedicated to
bring about Ragnarok when the Earth will be destroyed in fire and reborn and
when it is the leaders of Winternight will take their places among the Gods.
One of their favorite ways of doing this is to create Nuclear Weapon Foci
something they are researching feverently. Although I wonder, does anyone see
any similarity between these guys and Emperor Cartagia from B5.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 14:18:43 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Carl Schelin <cschelin@**.NASA.GOV>
Subject: Re: FASA and Hollywood
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:23 PM 12/12/96 +0100, you wrote:
>Richard Jury said on 19:46/11 Dec 96...
>
>> I'm not too sure how I feel on a BT or SR movie being made. I don't know
>> all that much about BT to be honest, except it has too many supplements ;)
>> I obviously would go see a SR movie if it came out, but I honestly don't
>> think any company could do justice on it, especially in the plotline.
>
>I don't know if Mike was around on the list the last time the SR movie
>thread came up (as always, it got started as "Who would you like to see
>play what parts in an SR movie?") but as I recall some pretty good reasons
>were given why an SR movie would *not* be a good idea for people who like
>the game... Just look at the way Johnny Mnemonic got turned into a movie,
>and Gibson was closely involved with that! (For the record, I still
>haven't seen JM, but the bits I /have/ seen, have still not changed my
>mind about not wanting to see it.)
>
>--

For the record {I'm listening[1]}, I did see JM. I didn't recognize the
story until towards the end of the movie. By then I was looking for the
flyers advertising the video for sale in the lobby.

Carl

[1] The Enforcer Drone in Spaced Invaders

-----------------------------In Real Life
When opportunity knocks, Carl Schelin
switch to a better fuel. Server Operations
NASA Headquarters
------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Geek Code 3.0) GCS d- s+:+>:++ a39 C++++ UL+++ P++ L+++ E- W N+++ K
w++>+++$ O M V PS PE Y PGP- t 5 X R+++ tv- b+++ DI+++ D+++ G++ e h r y**
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 12:41:45 -0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <loki@*******.COM>
Subject: Oni and magic
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I've got a question from the SR Companion that's been bugging me.

Under the new meta-race of Oni, it says "at the gamemaster's discretion,
players creating oni characters may slecet magic as priority A and
Metahuman as priority B."

I can't see what game mechanics difference that makes at all. Whether its
magic at A and metahuman at B, or methahuman at A and magic at B, I just
don't see that anything really changes. Granted there might be some
roleplaying possibilities as to how a magic A or magic B person would view
things, but no numbers or points change at all.

Can anyone else explain what reason this optional rule would have?

@>--'--,--- Loki

/>
/<
[\\\\\\(O):::<======================================-
\< Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki
\>


"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 18:38:04 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Bye de Bye!
In-Reply-To: <32B05E1D.5236@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0

In article <32B05E1D.5236@*****.com>, "Steven A. Tinner"
<bluewizard@*****.com> writes
>> I got out around mid-July.
>> In 1994.
>> Beat that :)
>
>OK. I was done May 12, 1992.
>But I suspect that Pete Sims can beat us all here.
><Not that you're old or anything Petey :-)>
>--
>Steven A. Tinner

It was too long ago to remember... <grin> (early 70's I think)


--
Pete
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 11:52:37 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: 'Spaceman' WD Lee <spaced@*.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject: Re: FASA and Hollywood
In-Reply-To: <19961212151636456.AAA51@********.interrural.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 12 Dec 1996, GRANITE wrote:
# runner will be screwed by just about everybody"..What's snot to
# like???
<rant>
Keanu Reeves' bad acting? The fact that the best actors in the
movie were Ice-T and Henry Rollins, both musicians by trade? The skewed
tech? (storage space still in gigs? that many years in the future?). That
the sam (Dolph Lundgren, I think) only got a scant amount of screen time?
That the plot was changed to a save-the-world, do the good thing ending?
That the script relied heavily on cliched representations of
relationships (re Molly and Johnny)?
</rant>

Seriously, although it did have a couple of good things to use for
a potential SR movie (the Matrix scene, the sam), the cheesy plot, bad
acting, and miscues on future tech just added up to a horrible movie



The Spaceman |God said, "Let there be light." And God
spaced@*.washington.edu |separated the light from the dark. And
Check out the Bill Page! |did two loads of laundry. -Genesis 1:2.5
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~spaced/bill.html
GCC/GL d- s:++ a-- C++ U+ P+ L>L++ !E W++ N++ o+ K w !O M-- V--
PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R+ tv b+++ DI+ D+ G+ e+ h r z+
MPA/SH/TA S G Q+ 666 y W C++ N+ PEC+++ Dr
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 14:02:07 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: FASA and Hollywood
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.95.961212114630.7593A-100000@*****.u.washington.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 12 Dec 1996, 'Spaceman' WD Lee wrote:

> On Thu, 12 Dec 1996, GRANITE wrote:
> # runner will be screwed by just about everybody"..What's snot to
> # like???
> <rant>
> Keanu Reeves' bad acting? The fact that the best actors in the
> movie were Ice-T and Henry Rollins, both musicians by trade? The skewed
> tech? (storage space still in gigs? that many years in the future?). That
> the sam (Dolph Lundgren, I think) only got a scant amount of screen time?
> That the plot was changed to a save-the-world, do the good thing ending?
> That the script relied heavily on cliched representations of
> relationships (re Molly and Johnny)?
> </rant>
>
> Seriously, although it did have a couple of good things to use for
> a potential SR movie (the Matrix scene, the sam), the cheesy plot, bad
> acting, and miscues on future tech just added up to a horrible movie


BUT the gun... ya gotta love the gun!!!! :)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 15:01:16 U
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Collins <steve_collins@********.ALEWIFE.KODAK.COM>
Subject: Re: Bye de Bye!

RE>>Bye de Bye! 12/12/1996

>OK. I was done May 12, 1992.
>But I suspect that Pete Sims can beat us all here.
><Not that you're old or anything Petey :-)>
>--
>Steven A. Tinner

It was too long ago to remember... <grin> (early 70's I think)

Which 18 or 19 ;)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 07:19:58 +1100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Clayton <jeltzz@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: unsubscribe - sorry
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I know people are going to be very annoyed, but
I've been off line for some time, and they changed
the syntax for unsubscribing. If somebody could
help me out, I'd be most grateful.


--
Desert Wynd
jeltzz@*******.com.au
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 13:24:16 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Richard Jury <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: unsubscribe - sorry
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 07:19 12/13/96 +1100, you wrote:
>I know people are going to be very annoyed, but
>I've been off line for some time, and they changed
>the syntax for unsubscribing. If somebody could
>help me out, I'd be most grateful.
>

The command to unsubscribe is 'signoff shadowrn', and should be mailed to
<listserv@********.itribe.net>, in the body of the message.

Fro
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 13:42:37 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: FASA and Hollywood
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
> > On Thu, 12 Dec 1996, GRANITE wrote:
> >........What's not to like???

> > Keanu Reeves' bad acting? ...... cliched representations of
> > relationships (re Molly and Johnny)?
> > Seriously, although it did have a couple of good things to use for
> > a potential SR movie (the Matrix scene, the sam), the cheesy plot, bad
> > acting, and miscues on future tech just added up to a horrible movie

Opinions are like @$$H01e$ everybody has one..I dissagree..I thought
the acting was acceptable and most of the FX were up to par..The only
FX I didn't like was the dolphin..But that would be difficult no
matter what..
As for memory measures in Gigs..That is a mathmatical definition of a
specific value..No matter how much time passes they memory will
still be valued in Megs, Gigs, Tera, and so on..It is the SR
undefined Megapulse that is out of place..If it the mere availablity
of so many Gigs instead of Tera..That is a choice JM took..He only
wanted to lose so much of himself..Better than becoming a zombie
datastore..And there has to be a limit on data compression and
miniturization at any
rate..
-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
=================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 15:49:58 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Melee Weapons
In-Reply-To: <19961210.221002.16895.0.lobo1@****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 10 Dec 1996, John E Pederson wrote:

> Yeah, and the staffman also has better defensive capabilities than the
> swordsman (nearly equivalent weight, greater reach, better leverage due
> to more area to grip his weapon, etc) Personally, if I were a swordsman
> (which I'm not, but...) I'd think twice about going up against a staffman
> who looks like he knows what he's doing.

Weapon advantages/disadvantages notwithstanding, that is precisely
why you train with *both* weapons, so you know not only how they are
used, but how they will be used against you and how to deal with them.
This principle can and should be applied to *all* weapons, even firearms.

Marc
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 15:59:43 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: nunchuks
Comments: To: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.com>
In-Reply-To: <32AE638A.63EB@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 10 Dec 1996, Steven A. Tinner wrote:

> Yeah, but the sword fighter has the option of taking a broken limb/ribs
> and grabbing the staff. Sure he's hurt, but he can continue to fight. He
> has disarmed his opponent, and he will eventually recover from the
> beating taken in snaring the staff.

Tip number one: *Do not!* try to just "grab the staff." An
experienced wielder can use that to make you hurt eight ways to sunday.
Disarming techniques are *extremely* dangerous unless you know *exactly*
what you're doing, which most people don't. The end result will not be
you disarming your opponent, but rather your opponent using your grip as
a point of leverage to apply a throw or a lock (which staves of all sizes
are excellent for).

> The staff weilder trying the same thing is most likely going to be cut
> very badly from taking a sword slash. He will continue to weaken, and
> likely could die even after the fight is over, without immediate medical
> attention.

There are ways that you can take a sword away from someone, but
these are probably even more risky to pull off than trying to take away
someone's staff. Keep in mind that when you are disarming someone with a
sword, you don't just grab the blade and pull. That doesn't work real
well. Now if you shatter their wrist and pull away the sword from the
grip, you're much better off...

> Then again disarming IS easier to do with a staff than a sword. :-)

That depends...

> Hmmm. The only way this topic could be more confusing is if we pose the
> question as to what the best combination is.
> Physad w/sword vs. Sammy w/staff, or Physad w/staff vs. Sammy w/sword.

Don't even start. :)

Marc
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 12:52:18 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Robert Pendergrast (Tom)" <3011_3@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: unsubscribing...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19961212132342.006b0c60@****.lis.ab.ca>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hi guys. I'm leaving the list now... I don't know if I'll be back, so
Happy holidays everyone, and merry christmas.

-Tom-

BTW- PhysAds rule, Mages kick shamans, and you can't ground through
quickenings!!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 15:16:51 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: unsubscribing...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.PMDF.3.91.961212124958.545275425C-100000@*******.cwu.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 12 Dec 1996, Robert Pendergrast (Tom) wrote:

> Hi guys. I'm leaving the list now... I don't know if I'll be back, so
> Happy holidays everyone, and merry christmas.
>
> -Tom-
>
> BTW- PhysAds rule, Mages kick shamans, and you can't ground through
> quickenings!!
>
EVIL!!! EVIL!!!!

:)
Czar "If I Only Had A Brain.... I Wouldn't Eat Yours." Eggbert
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 17:05:39 GMT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Georg Greve <greve@*******.HANSE.DE>
Organization: Nightmare on Coin Street
Subject: Re: Grounding through mages (was: Re: Spelllocks....)

Justin Pinnow (jpinnow@*****.edu) wrote:
: I don't see why the soul is considered destroyable as a physical object,
: but the body is not. That doesn't make sense to me. My argument was

The soul is not as destroyable as a physical object - it is as
destroyable as any living/"life spiritual"/magical part/link.

: that the being's link with their spirit is not a material object that
: can be destroyed via grounding. Thus, their body can take damage, but
: not their spirit (or link to it).

Ah. That's where your misunderstanding lies. Grounding does not destroy
physical things primarily. The primary effect is destroying the
astral/spiritual pathway it is using for getting through to the
mundane plane. IF the physical part is attacked at all (it doesn't
have to, although it often is) it is attacked by whatever was grounded
through, not by the process of grounding itself.

: If you have 9 boxes of damage in each condition monitor and you enter
: astral space, you DESERVE to be killed. Besides, you don't need to
: ground to do it...a quick astral combat will do the trick too. ;)

Huh ? This just means that you have to fight someone down in order to
be able to ground through him (just as I think it should be) - and I
didn't say he had the boxes before entering the astal plane.

: However, the point I made still stands.

Sorry, but I don't see that - you just misunderstood what I said and I
think you misunderstood the concept of grounding, because grounding
does not work on the physical part on the first hand. It is like using
a hammer to open a window (whether it is stronger or weaker, bigger or
smaller of a different color or shape does not count): it is broken
afterwards.

: Since this is a book, the author has creative liscense. This
: description can be used to support your views of the astral link between
: body and spirit, but don't expect others to do the same. ;)

I didn't, but I just thought it shows a very good and logical way
about how the whole concept of "grounding through mages" should be
understood.

: Uh, no. :) If you don't ground through successfully, NO ONE would take
: any damage (except maybe the casting mage due to drain). Thus, it would
: be a completely wasted effort. Sure, have your psycho magical duo
: ground through each other, but if mage a succeeds in grounding through
: mage b, then mage b will take damage from the spell (and so would anyone
: close to mage b, if it was an area effect spell).

Sure. But There are several spells you could use for grounding (not
only combat spells - remember: ONLY manipulation and mana based
spells cannot be used for grounding - every other spell could be
used) and you could use a spell that wouldn't really do harm to the
mage you ground through but take out the others

: Also, your body and willpower would resist spells as normal...I don't
: see how there is a way to voluntarily allow yourself to not
: resist....you can choose not to use spell defense, etc., but your
: attributes will always do their best.

Sure. But do you really think that attributes alone will allow you to
resist any decent spell completely ? Just think about area effect
spells like "Decrease Willpower" & "Decrease Charisma" - a decent
version of these spells will most probably take out every non-mage
(with an attribute of 0 or lower you are completely defenseless and
unable to move) while the "grounding post" will just suffer some lower
attributes until he did whatever he wanted to do to the other
characters...

: > : Just my opinion. :)
: > Isn't it always ? ;-)
: Yep. :)

O.k. - this is how I see it and right now we are starting to run
around in circles. So if you still don't see my point you should read
the postings I wrote during the last days - I will only write more
about this when there is something new coming up, because otherwise
this is threatening to become a "I am right !" shouting contest like
other threads did.

Later,
Georg

--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The Clan's are marching 'gainst the law - |
| bagpipers play the tunes of war - death or glory I will find - |
| rebellion on my mind" |
| Grave Digger - "Rebellion" |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Georg Greve greve@*******.Hanse.DE |
| Tel.: +49-40-23809080 greve@*******.uni-hamburg.de |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 17:21:47 -0800
Reply-To: bluewizard@*****.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Staff vs. Sword (was Re: nunchuks)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Tip number one: *Do not!* try to just "grab the staff." An
> experienced wielder can use that to make you hurt eight ways to sunday.
> Disarming techniques are *extremely* dangerous unless you know *exactly*
> what you're doing, which most people don't. The end result will not be
> you disarming your opponent, but rather your opponent using your grip as
> a point of leverage to apply a throw or a lock (which staves of all sizes
> are excellent for).

That's something I had neglected. Staves are MUCH better used as a lever
to apply a throw.
My intention was to point out that it IS possible to trap a staff
between an arm and the body - granted, the person doing so is going to
be badly hurt, but as I said, not as badly as if he tried the exact same
maneuver with a sword.
What I meant to get at was that an untrained/minimally trained fighter
can try this with a blunt weapon, whereas most would NOT do so with an
edged weapon.

But you bring up a valid SR point. Trying to disarm a troll with a staff
is going to be a tough job. Odds are the trog will just lift you and the
staff into the air RAPIDLY, and fling you like a wet towel. :-)

> There are ways that you can take a sword away from someone, but
> these are probably even more risky to pull off than trying to take away
> someone's staff. Keep in mind that when you are disarming someone with a
> sword, you don't just grab the blade and pull. That doesn't work real
> well. Now if you shatter their wrist and pull away the sword from the
> grip, you're much better off...

My minimal Live Action RP experience (not the same at all I realize) has
convinced me that I would rather fight someone with a staff than a
sword. On the sole basis that I'll take disablement over disembowelment
any day of the week.

<On a barely related note re: disarming the aforementioned "weapon trap"
maneuver is also a rather extreme way to fight a dog or other biting
animal. By sacrificing your arm to the beast's jaws, you can gain
control over its neck and snap it.
Hurts a lot, but the fight is over. END useless.trivia.txt>

> > Hmmm. The only way this topic could be more confusing is if we pose the
> > question as to what the best combination is.
> > Physad w/sword vs. Sammy w/staff, or Physad w/staff vs. Sammy w/sword.
>
> Don't even start. :)

Wouldn't dream of it. :-)
--
Steven A. Tinner
http://www.ncweb.com:80/users/bluewizard/
FAMOUS LAST WORDS
"If I see another one of these fraggin' robots . . ."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 17:49:25 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <droopy@**.net>
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: Crater Lake -Reply
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
> Subject: Crater Lake -Reply

> As someone else mentioned, Crater Lake is a high magic spot. It is my guess
> that it's creation has something to do with the end of the fourth world and the
> destruction of Thera (Atlantis). The Tir has walled it off, for two possible reasons
> that I can think of:

It is likely a power locus similar to the one mentioned (extremely)
briefly in the Atzlan sourcebook.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 17:49:25 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <droopy@**.net>
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: Email adressing & RE : initiation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
> Subject: Email adressing & RE : initiation

> Ok this is the lastest in a long line of badly targeted mails.
> I'll use my mailer as an example.
> When i hit reply i get 5 baisc choices over where a mail is going.

You are the only one on the list who I've seen with their own E-mail
address in the reply to: field. You can fix that by setting your
E-mail program to not force your address into that field.

> I suspect all those blaming my mail programme are actually repling to
> the reply to field, which the list does not always set up correctly,

Well, most programs do default to the reply to: field. In your
E-mail program, you should be able to set the various field defaults.
Try leaving the reply to: field blank.

Just a thought...


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 17:49:25 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <droopy@**.net>
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: 6 gas vents on a minigun (was Re: Assault cannons)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable

> From: Guido Hölker <Guido@******.COM>
> Subject: Re: 6 gas vents on a minigun (was Re: Assault cannons)

> >> Nope. Remember, the bullet _is_ the gas seal. By the time gas is pass=
ing
> >> through the baffles of the muzzle brake, the bullet is out of the bar=
rel
> >> and gone.
> >
> >What about the gas on the other side of the bullet? <G>
>
> Is used to move the lock and to reload.

I meant that it passes through the muzzle brake before the bullet
does.


BTW....is that you in the credits for Realms of Arkana: Star Trail?


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 16:22:49 GMT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Georg Greve <greve@*******.HANSE.DE>
Organization: Nightmare on Coin Street
Subject: Re: Spelllocks....

Gurth (gurth@******.NL) wrote:
: Georg Greve said on 15:29/11 Dec 96...
: > [ by the way: That reminds me of the scene where a burst (3 bullets as
: > we all know) from a distance of about 50m killed that one mage (he was
: > held busy magically). When we searched him (he had 4 foci in the size
: > of a coin on totally different parts of his body) the three bullets
: > had hit all four foci and destroyed them... *giggle* ]
: Maybe you should get Oliver Stone to make a movie out of this incident :)

Hehehe. It really reminded me of the movie "Top Secret" - there is a
scene where one guy shoots a machine gun into a room that is filled
with lots of good and bad guys. He just shoots blindly into the room
and all the bad guys drop down dead while all the good guys are still
standing. *grin*

Later,
Georg

--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The Clan's are marching 'gainst the law - |
| bagpipers play the tunes of war - death or glory I will find - |
| rebellion on my mind" |
| Grave Digger - "Rebellion" |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Georg Greve greve@*******.Hanse.DE |
| Tel.: +49-40-23809080 greve@*******.uni-hamburg.de |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 16:38:39 GMT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Georg Greve <greve@*******.HANSE.DE>
Organization: Nightmare on Coin Street
Subject: Re: German Versions

Guido Hölker (guido@******.COM) wrote:
: None taken.

That is good. ;-)

: Maybe you can give a few examples? I'm not sure if you are talking about

Sure. Just some things that come to my mind at once:

- The recoil modifiers for a burst is one point lower in the german
version

- The Grimoire has totally different working for all control
manipulations as well as different drain codes (in the list at the end
there are the original english drain codes, though).

- The Bioware muscles enhance Quickness and REACTION by their level
but do NOT affect Strength.

there are many more, but I'd have to think about it... maybe I should
always write it down when we discover one of these strange things.

: translatons plainly (which may be just bad work by the translator, but I
: don't recall it that bad) or maybe about changes we made with intend? (which
: I consider youite good mostly abd I would be happy to explain).

Translations are one thing and definitely something you have to like
or not to like. My group hates some of the german translations for
names and concepts. One example is the word "T-Bird" for "Thunderbird"
(these extremely cool LAVs) ... this is pretty cool. The german
translation would have been "Donnervogel" which would have been kinda
cool as well, but what did they call it ? Schweber ! This sounds like
it is a little gay fairy hovering around or some annoying insect.

We actually once had a situation where some friend of ours wanted to
do an adventure for us and there was a situation when the brown stuff
really hit the fan (isn't it always *grin*)... he told us: "You see
four Schweber" - we all said "So what ? I swat them" or "What the
hell, let's ignore them" until we realized there were 4 T-Birds
chasing us. It only took us 5 minutes to realize that. *laugh*

O.k. - I have to admit it is a question of taste and you could discuss
about it, but I personally think the translators have done a REALLY
bad job on several things.

: Please bear in mind that I'm working for the company but beeing only
: partially involved in SR Stuff.

Sure. I didn't want to offend you, but I just could not believe that
the translators could have been too dumb to translate
NUMBERS... anyway: In our group we made up a small collection of
Houserules and one of the first was: "If in doubt: ALWAYS use the
English orginal - the only exception is "Deutschland in den Schatten"
(Germany Sourcebook) !" - that way we don't have these nasty: "But in
my book it says [insert rule] !" - discussions anymore.

Later,
Georg

--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The Clan's are marching 'gainst the law - |
| bagpipers play the tunes of war - death or glory I will find - |
| rebellion on my mind" |
| Grave Digger - "Rebellion" |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Georg Greve greve@*******.Hanse.DE |
| Tel.: +49-40-23809080 greve@*******.uni-hamburg.de |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 23:29:02 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: unsubscribe - sorry
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.961213071432.8265A-100000@*******.ozemail.com.au>
from "Clayton" at Dec 13, 96 07:19:58 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

|
|I know people are going to be very annoyed, but
|I've been off line for some time, and they changed
|the syntax for unsubscribing. If somebody could
|help me out, I'd be most grateful.

Here we go again....

e-mail listserv@********.itribe.net
subject.... <none>
Body text: unsubscribe * (if you want to unsub from everything, or)
unsubscribe whateverlist (for just one)
end
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 20:42:37 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Bye de Bye!
In-Reply-To: <n1361719413.50455@********>
MIME-Version: 1.0

In article <n1361719413.50455@********>, Steve Collins <steve_collins@**
SERVER.ALEWIFE.KODAK.COM> writes
> RE>>Bye de Bye! 12/12/1996
>
>>OK. I was done May 12, 1992.
>>But I suspect that Pete Sims can beat us all here.
>><Not that you're old or anything Petey :-)>
>>--
>>Steven A. Tinner
>
>It was too long ago to remember... <grin> (early 70's I think)
>
>Which 18 or 19 ;)


18 <grin>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 19:46:47 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Crater Lake
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 02:02 AM 12/11/96 -0500, John wrote:
>On Tue, 10 Dec 1996, John Jacobsma wrote:

>> OK, here's the deal: I'm planning to send my players into Tir
>> Tairngire. Does anyone have the scoop as to what Those Wacky Elves
>> (TM) are up to at Crater Lake? If you're not able to speak "ex
>> cathedra", as it were, how about some educated guesses?
>
>Whatever they were doing, their plans have been seriously altered
>recently, when Harlequin and Aina allowed several powerful Horrors to
>cross over at the Lake while employing blood magic to destroy the Horror
>Ysgarthe. These events were detailed in the novel Worlds Without End.

I thought that before the end of the last magic cycle, they created a
hidden cache of weapons etc., a la Parlainth, and are trying to call it
back by tapping the ley line there.

I seem to recall reading someone recognizing the significance of when the
Crater Lake volcano last erupted.

--
"360 pounds, wow, that half a season of Oprah!"
Dick Diedrieck, "Night Stand"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 19:48:16 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John Jacobsma <j.jacobsma@************.COM>
Subject: To Reign In Hell (was: Crater Lake)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Thanx to everyone who pointed me toward "Elven Fire" where the story
appeared as "To Reign In Hell". Thanx also to those who mentioned
that the story appeared in a flyer. It was the 1990 SR update, and
the story was titled "Better to Reign..." (There's those ellipses
again!) I had both, and found it _much_ quicker than I would have by
browsing. (I get distracted too easily when I browse.)

// -- john jacobsma ------- <j.jacobsma@************.com> --
// for geek code & pgp key, visit my web page:
// http://www.inil.com/users/big_jake/
// -- fnord ---------------- fnord ---------------- fnord --

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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 20:01:51 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John Jacobsma <j.jacobsma@************.COM>
Subject: Re: Crater Lake

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Wednesday, December 11, at 2:02 AM, Jonathan Wright wrote:
> Whatever they were doing, their plans have been seriously altered
^^^^
Those Wacky Elves (TM)
> recently, when Harlequin and Aina allowed several powerful Horrors to
> cross over at the Lake whil employing blood magic to destroy the Horror
> Ysgarthe. These events were detailed in the novel Worlds Without End.

Ah, yes! How could I have forgotten that? Thanx for the reminder!

> The sight is very mana rich, much like a ley line or the spot where the
> Great Ghost Dance occurred. The Tir was probably attempting to harness
> this energy for their own purposes (possibly to locate Thera again?).

I guess I wasn't specific enough in my RFC. It's obvious (to me,
anyway) that they're attempting to harness arcane energy. What's not
obvious is exactly _what_ they're trying to do with it. That's what
I'm interested in hearing opinions on.

On Wednesday, December 11 at 8:24 AM, Mike Elkins wrote:
> As someone else mentioned, Crater Lake is a high magic spot. It is my guess
> that it's creation has something to do with the end of the fourth world and the
> destruction of Thera (Atlantis). The Tir has walled it off, for two possible reasons
> that I can think of:

That's seems like a good guess to me, even though we're pretty
certain that Thera was on the other side of the world. Makes me
wonder why Ehran and Oakforest picked the Pacific NW as the location
for the Land of Promise. Probably just being practical. There is a
reference on p. 22 of the sourcebook (shadowtalk, so it may be drek)
that gives the exact date of Crater Lake's formation as 22-JUL-3454
B.C. (At 9:35 AM!) Does this correspond to the destruction of Thera?

> 1) They are using the magic boost to perform rituals beyond they're abilities
> elsewhere.
> 2) They are trying to seal off the area to prevent horrors from coming through.
> Note that the more magic that gets done in the area the easier it is for horrors to
> come through...
>
> This actually gives me a third possibility: 3) All of the above. The official policy
is
> to seal it off, no magic is to be done there, but several factions use their
influence
> to sneak in and do what they want to gain power in their internal struggles.

Again, a good guess. When meddling with Forces Beyond Human
Comprehension (TM), it's always best to keep them solely to yourself.
(The meddler _always_ assumes that they can handle it, although no
one else can.)

On Wednesday, December 11 at 11:49 AM, Max Rible wrote:
> Crater Lake itself seems to be a very magical spot. (Duuuh...) I've heard
> it suggested that it may be a focal spot of some kind for tapping into the
> full power of the country of Tir Tairngire (I forget the Earthdawn jargon for
> this).

On Wednesday, December 11 at 11:27 PM, Spike replied:
> Hmmmmmm.
> Crater Lake is Tirs Pattern Item eh?
> Nice idea....

<sigh> Looks like it's back to the ED sourcebooks for me...

Max Rible continued:
> One of the remarks in the Tir Tairngire sourcebook by Harlequin suggests that
> the TT elves are working on a Great Ward. I suspect they're plotting to create
> a Dome of Air and Fire, much like the one that protected Thera during the
^^^^^^^^^
Not very well! ;)

> Scourge, over the entire country, and Crater Lake may be an essential power
> source.

This seems like a reasonable conjecture to me. Did this subject come
up again in the Aztlan sourcebook, or am I confused?

// -- john jacobsma ------- <j.jacobsma@************.com> --
// for geek code & pgp key, visit my web page:
// http://www.inil.com/users/big_jake/
// -- fnord ---------------- fnord ---------------- fnord --

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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 20:12:09 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John Jacobsma <j.jacobsma@************.COM>
Subject: Re: Genetics and immortality

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Tuesday, December 10 at 11:42 PM, I asked:
> Refresh my memory, what _are_ the other forms of immortality?

On Wednesday, December 11 at 10:06 PM, Joachim Buchert answered:
> Very well. First off, how is immortality gained:
> 1) From a gene
> 2) From a Free Spirit's Hidden Life power
> 3) From magical items (The Eternal Rose)

Ah. Part of the confusion I was experiencing is semantics. I wouldn't
consider immortality from different sources to be a different _form_.
But no matter.

Joachim continued:
> Different types of immortality, sure:
> 1) You will not die from old age
> 2) You will not die from physical harm
> 3) Both of the above.

I only consider #1 to be "pure" immortality. #2 is invulnerability.
#3 is immortality + invulnerability. Now we understand each other's
terms. BTW, #2 & 3 will not exist in my world. If you manage to drop
a 16 ton weight on Harlequin, he _will_ die. (Good luck!)

I continued:
> Ah, but it is "pure" genetics. Magic is just the mutagen in this
> case. Once the mutation has occurred, it would be inherited (or not
> inherited) normally.

Joachim replied:
> Hmm. Yes, I think I'd have to agree here, yet it is not the only
> possibility. The immortality 'gene' may be composed of two parts: The
> gene, which is like a spell lock, and a sustained 'spell'/power.

> Or something different. It might not be pure genetics, I repeat.

OK, point taken. I think it makes the most sense, using Occam's
Razor, to say that magic is _not_ required to sustain immortality, so
that's the way it is in my world. But you're quite right, there are
other (more complicated, to my mind) possibilities.

I continued:
> But my point was, given the state of genetic research _today_, it's
> quite plausible, even likely, that the gene(s) that cause immortality
> would be known, and _any_ strand of DNA can be duplicated. (That's
> one of the properties that makes it suitable as a means of
> inheritance, after all.)

Joachim replied:
> Yes, I fully agree, BUT: We must make the assumption that for some
> strange reason the immortality gene has not been located, or the set of
> genes which causes it have not been isolated. Remember that very few DNA
> samples would be available for study. In fact, I'd say none, but ..

I suppose we _could_ say that the results of the Human Genome Project
were lost in the Crash of '29. And you're quite right about the lack
of samples. The immortal elves don't even like mundanes knowing about
the existance of immortality, so they aren't cooperating in any
research. And from the researchers' point of view, how does one
identify an immortal?

Joachim continued:
> And .. currently any strand of DNA can be duplicated, yes, but given the
> existance of magic and its very likely involvement, it might make this void.
> In several instances, life equals magic, and perhaps cold science create
> what powerful life can. Therefore, the gene can only manifest naturally.

I'm not sure I buy this, but I'll grant it's a possibility.

Joachim continued:
> Science is science. Fantasy is fantasy. Let's remember that.

And Science Fantasy is Science Fantasy. The idea is to put in enough
reasonable extrapolation from real science to make the fantasy more
believable.

I continued:
> Really? Think about it logically. The mana was low for what, about
> FIVE THOUSAND years? If mana was required to retain the trait, all
> the immortals would have died in the Fifth World. (Early in the Fifth
> World.) No, the immortality has to be sustainable by mundane
> biochemical processes, or it isn't really immortality.

Joachim responded:
> Yes, mana was low, but not non-existant, so it does not have to
> sustainable in an 'exceptable' way, definately not.

Good point. You're right, of course. We don't know if mana ever hits
zero, but it seems likely that it does not. It's possible that only a
tiny amount of mana is required to sustain the immortality gene, and
the mana curve never goes below that threshold, or doesn't go below
it long enough for the immortals to age and die.

Hmm, there's an interesting thought: what if the immortals age a few
years at the low point in ecah cycle? After twenty or thirty cycles,
even elves would be getting geriatric. (Doesn't have much of an
effect on the campaign, but it's interesting.)

// -- john jacobsma ------- <j.jacobsma@************.com> --
// for geek code & pgp key, visit my web page:
// http://www.inil.com/users/big_jake/
// -- fnord ---------------- fnord ---------------- fnord --

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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 20:15:06 -0500
Reply-To: tkerby@***.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: old fart.... :)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Well, Steven A. Tinner wrote:

> OK. I was done May 12, 1992.

<puts down cane, sits in rocking chair, and then scratches at long white
beard>
Well, I was done in July, 1986. Beat that, you little whipper-snappers!


====DREKHEAD==============================================================
Tim Kerby | Never relax. Your run may be over, but someone,
drekhead@***.net |somewhere, is just starting his and the target
drekhead@***.com | could be you.
drekhead@*******.com | ---www.aol.users.com\drekhead\home.html---
=========================================================================
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 20:50:41 -0500
Reply-To: tkerby@***.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Friday the 13th
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Donald G Bixler wrote:
> instead. He gets ahold of a rattle that will completely cure a patient
> after it kills someone else first. Perhaps if you're feeling _realy_
> sadistic, have him be part of the next DocWagon team that shows up.

Ohhh....that is good. That is real good.... (Buwahahaha.........)

--

====DREKHEAD==============================================================
Tim Kerby | Never relax. Your run may be over, but someone,
drekhead@***.net |somewhere, is just starting his and the target
drekhead@***.com | could be you.
drekhead@*******.com | ---www.aol.users.com\drekhead\home.html---
=========================================================================
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 20:07:03 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Elfman & Danita <elf-dani@******.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA and Hollywood
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

From: Mike Mulvihill (FASA) <FASAMike@***.COM>

> Trust me we would like nothing more than to have a FASA film (either SR
or
> BT) produced into a movie. The problem is not us...really, it's
Hollywood. BT
> stuff has been floating around Hollywood for years, pitches have been
made,
> lunches done, hands shaken and still no real activity. Right now most of
> Hollywood is scared to put out any Sci-Fi because Lucas and the Star Wars
> machine is really going to take home the big nuyen over most of 1997 even
> though the films are re-releases. No one wants to compete directly with
them
> (supposedly that's why Fist Contact was pushed to be a winter release and
not
> a Spring one) and no one knows what kind of "legs" they will have --
exactly
> how long they will be in theatres. Plus with the second trilogy (or is it
> considered to be the first) being worked on, most studios want super big
> names to be in production...look for sequels, remakes, and "classic"
Sci-Fi
> fiction to be made into films -- while cool concepts and worlds like SR
and
> BT to be long shots. On the other hand a big increase in science fiction
> exposure always looks good. Meanwhile, FASA will continue to press
Hollywood
> for our worlds, hopefully someday we'll be plunking down our cash to see
a
> FASA film.

As long as the BT film doesn't turn out to be like "Robo Jox" or whatever
that dumb movie was called. Although, I did have a friend who used it as a
primer for people who were about to play BattleTech for the first time. He
said, "watch the robots, forget the plot, your driving things like these."

Sgt Pepper, still hoping that SR movie comes out soon.

Visit Elfman's World at http://www.spots.ab.ca/~elf-dani
or Danitaville at http://www.spots.ab.ca/~elf-dani/index.html
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 22:40:27 GMT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Georg Greve <greve@*******.HANSE.DE>
Organization: Nightmare on Coin Street
Subject: Re: unsubscribing...

Robert Pendergrast (Tom) (3011_3@***.EDU) wrote:
: Hi guys. I'm leaving the list now... I don't know if I'll be back, so
: Happy holidays everyone, and merry christmas.
: BTW- PhysAds rule, Mages kick shamans, and you can't ground through
: quickenings!!

Hehehehehe... merry christmas to you as well - have fun ! *grin*

Later,
Georg

--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The Clan's are marching 'gainst the law - |
| bagpipers play the tunes of war - death or glory I will find - |
| rebellion on my mind" |
| Grave Digger - "Rebellion" |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Georg Greve greve@*******.Hanse.DE |
| Tel.: +49-40-23809080 greve@*******.uni-hamburg.de |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 16:44:53 +1100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Calvin Hsieh <u2172778@*******.ACSU.UNSW.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Bye de Bye!
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:23 PM 12/12/96 +0100, you wrote:
>Calvin Hsieh said on 17:46/12 Dec 96...
>
>> Hey, I beat you all - I got out on the 28th November and don't have to go
>> back until the beginning of March!
>
>I got out around mid-July.
>
>In 1994.
>
>Beat that :)
>

I stand here humbled before the CEO of holidays - Gurth!

Shaman ;)

>--
>Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
> Oh wow! Oh wow! This is really, really heavy, man!
> -> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
>-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
>
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>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 16:45:04 +1100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Calvin Hsieh <u2172778@*******.ACSU.UNSW.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: FASA and Hollywood
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 11:52 AM 12/12/96 -0800, you wrote:
>On Thu, 12 Dec 1996, GRANITE wrote:
># runner will be screwed by just about everybody"..What's snot to
># like???
><rant>
> Keanu Reeves' bad acting? The fact that the best actors in the
>movie were Ice-T and Henry Rollins, both musicians by trade? The skewed
>tech? (storage space still in gigs? that many years in the future?). That
>the sam (Dolph Lundgren, I think) only got a scant amount of screen time?
>That the plot was changed to a save-the-world, do the good thing ending?
>That the script relied heavily on cliched representations of
>relationships (re Molly and Johnny)?
></rant>
>
> Seriously, although it did have a couple of good things to use for
>a potential SR movie (the Matrix scene, the sam), the cheesy plot, bad
>acting, and miscues on future tech just added up to a horrible movie
>

Finally, I thought everyone on ShadowRN loved this terrible film. I have to
agree with the spaceman - I thought this was one the worst films I saw in my
life. The script, acting, in fact just about everything about the flic was
appauling - it makes my stomach churn just mentioning the title.

Shaman

>
>The Spaceman |God said, "Let there be light." And God
>spaced@*.washington.edu |separated the light from the dark. And
>Check out the Bill Page! |did two loads of laundry. -Genesis 1:2.5
>http://weber.u.washington.edu/~spaced/bill.html
>GCC/GL d- s:++ a-- C++ U+ P+ L>L++ !E W++ N++ o+ K w !O M-- V--
>PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R+ tv b+++ DI+ D+ G+ e+ h r z+
>MPA/SH/TA S G Q+ 666 y W C++ N+ PEC+++ Dr
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 16:45:00 +1100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Calvin Hsieh <u2172778@*******.ACSU.UNSW.EDU.AU>
Subject: Magic Rating
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Greetings people,

One quickie - what is the significance of maintaining a high magic rating?
As far as I can see, the only thing the magic attribute is used for is to
determine the max force rating on a spell before the drain becomes physical
damage. Can anyone elaborate? The SR index is not too crash hot and I'm too
lazy to read the whole damn thing end to end to find references.

Shaman
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 00:57:46 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sanction <david.s.thompson@****.EDU>
Subject: Re: Magic Rating
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 04:45 PM 12/13/96 +1100, you wrote:
>Greetings people,
>
>One quickie - what is the significance of maintaining a high magic rating?
>As far as I can see, the only thing the magic attribute is used for is to
>determine the max force rating on a spell before the drain becomes physical
>damage. Can anyone elaborate? The SR index is not too crash hot and I'm too
>lazy to read the whole damn thing end to end to find references.
>
>Shaman

The truly limiting factor of magic rating is not type of drain, but, as I've
posted before, the limit it places on the allocation of magic pool. If I
remember correctly (and I'm pretty sure I do) the max number of dice from
magic pool that can be used to assist the spell success test is equal to the
magic rating of the magician. This means that it is really hard to get
enough successes off a spell like invisibility or levitate person to make
them truly useful (the reason I use those spells as examples is because I
frequently run mages who know those spells at only low forces). This
affects all aspects of spell casting and is severely limiting, as far as I'm
concerned. It is, however, less of an issue when casting high force spells
because then, usually, magic pool is used to resist the much higher drain
involved, and not to assist the effect of the spell which already has enough
dice. What this really limits is the effectiveness of the "utility spells"
that someone refered to -- the idea of having lots of low force spells like
makeover and mask and such, an idea I like to take advantage of.

--Sanction
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 17:07:45 +1100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Calvin Hsieh <u2172778@*******.ACSU.UNSW.EDU.AU>
Subject: SR Logo
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi!

I just finished my gazillionth version of my SR character sheet and noticed
one significant point missing - the logo.

Does anyone know where (on the Net) I can find a SR logo without the skull
in the background? Paolo, any ideas?

Shaman
_______________________________________________________
In Real Life: Calvin Hsieh
In ShadowRun: Shaman

"Strange are the times we live in.
Stranger are the times we are to live.
But strangest of all are the times we have lived."
- Me, just then trying to be deep and meaningful
________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 01:00:00 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Court Schuett <schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Magic Rating
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19961213164435.084f49b4@*******.acsu.unsw.edu.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 13 Dec 1996, Calvin Hsieh wrote:
> One quickie - what is the significance of maintaining a high magic rating?
> As far as I can see, the only thing the magic attribute is used for is to
> determine the max force rating on a spell before the drain becomes physical
> damage. Can anyone elaborate? The SR index is not too crash hot and I'm too
> lazy to read the whole damn thing end to end to find references.

Well, it also determines the range on certain "Range: Limited" Spells. I
believe it's make a seperate Spellcasting test, TN 4. Number of
successes * MR = range of spell.
Also, if you lose two magic points, a geas is required. (Covered in
Grimthingy) For every two, another limitation is put on casting spells.
These can be removed through initiation.
That's all I can think of. Anything I missed? I'm sure there's
something, but what...
-Court

/* Court Schuett

schuett@*****.ivcc.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Blue canary in the outlet by the light switch
Who watches over you
Make a little birdhouse in your soul
Not to put too fine a point on it:
Say I'm the only bee in your bonnet
Make a little birdhouse in your soul
-They Might Be Giants
*******************************************************************************/
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 01:19:48 -0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <loki@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Magic Rating
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Greetings people,
>
> One quickie - what is the significance of maintaining a high magic
rating?
> As far as I can see, the only thing the magic attribute is used for is to
> determine the max force rating on a spell before the drain becomes
physical
> damage. Can anyone elaborate? The SR index is not too crash hot and I'm
too
> lazy to read the whole damn thing end to end to find references.
>
> Shaman

Magic is the attribute used in confrontation type tests in astral space,
such as battling though barriers, banishing spirits, combatting foci and so
on. It also governs your speed during "fast" movement astrally. Magic
attribute affects your area of affect for spells, the size of barriers,
your range on limitted range spells. In the Grimmy or PA of Europe it
suggests GM's let initiates use their Magic attribute to resist the more
arcane critter powers if higher then the target attribute. Not to mention
it sets the max number of magic pool dice that can be allocated to a test.

Any other uses of Magic I'm leaving out?

@>--'--,--- Loki

/>
/<
[\\\\\\(O):::<======================================-
\< Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki
\>


"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 01:47:41 -0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <loki@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Sr Companion
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Incidently while I was reading though it I notice that I recognised some
of
> the runner (oak, sasser and a few others) these are all chracter from the
> group that linda naughton play with. they have quite a groovy home page
to.
> Tim (ntoo)

So what's the address to this page?

@>--'--,--- Loki

/>
/<
[\\\\\\(O):::<======================================-
\< Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki
\>


"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 10:24:38 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Guido Hölker <guido@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Melee Weapons
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

To give this another point of view:
Sure you will have problems with a sword gainst a staff unless:
-You hve two of this blades or
-are wearing someting like an armor. You don't even need plates against a
staff: something like padded cotton will perfecty do and spare you most of
the broken ribs. No armor-piercing capability here at all, so in this case
the staff-guy has to go for the head. And once you know that, it's much
easier to defend..
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 10:24:50 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Guido Hölker <guido@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Magic Rating
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>
>One quickie - what is the significance of maintaining a high magic rating?
>As far as I can see, the only
Only? Try to manipulate any tough guy (Willpower 5 and up) with "control
thoughts" with an speel force less than 8 or ten..
>thing the magic attribute is used for is to
>determine the max force rating on a spell before the drain becomes physical
>damage. Can anyone elaborate? The SR index is not too crash hot and I'm too
>lazy to read the whole damn thing end to end to find references.

It determines the time you can stay astral and is sometimes used for opposed
tests against other magic.
And for Physads it's vene more important, of course..
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 10:24:46 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Guido Hölker <guido@******.COM>
Subject: Re: German Versions
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>: Maybe you can give a few examples? I'm not sure if you are talking about
>

>
>- The recoil modifiers for a burst is one point lower in the german
>version
True. Because if you make a burst with an 3-point-recoil.penalty, the whole
burst-mode is completely senseless (you are far better of on full auto-fire
in this cas, can hit a few targets more if the odds are right), so this was
by intention.
>- The Grimoire has totally different working for all control
>manipulations as well as different drain codes (in the list at the end
>there are the original english drain codes, though).
Also true, but if you cross-check you will see that there are a lot of
inconsequences on the original we tried to clean up, and for the drain codes
there are a few differences between the book and the table in the original
already. we cleared some of them and made new in nearly the same amount; mut
have been a blind editor here.
>
>- The Bioware muscles enhance Quickness and REACTION by their level
>but do NOT affect Strength.
This definatly has been a blind an deaf editor: Plainly a mistake and noone
recognized.
>there are many more, but I'd have to think about it... maybe I should
>always write it down when we discover one of these strange things.
The very best you forgot: In the english version Priority C in money means
90,000 Bucks, in the german version only 50,000. And until September of this
year (and it's out since a few years now) NOONE NOTICED! (at least noone
here nad nooen told us). That was a hard one..

>Translations are one thing and definitely something you have to like
>or not to like. My group hates some of the german translations for
>names and concepts. One example is the word "T-Bird" for
"Thunderbird"
>(these extremely cool LAVs) ... this is pretty cool. The german
>translation would have been "Donnervogel" which would have been kinda
>cool as well, but what did they call it ? Schweber ! This sounds like
>it is a little gay fairy hovering around or some annoying insect.
*Schweber* is the classical german name for LAVs snce the first years of SF;
we took it because we thaough it would be better to recognize then
*Donnervogel". A Donnervogel isn't only the correct trabnslation of T-Bird
but a mystical northern Animal as well and we didn't want to sound it like a
critter.

>
>O.k. - I have to admit it is a question of taste and you could discuss
>about it, but I personally think the translators have done a REALLY
>bad job on several things.
Taste:: Yes; absolutely. And I'm far away from saing that every traslation
is a good one..
>: Please bear in mind that I'm working for the company but beeing only
>: partially involved in SR Stuff.
>
In our group we made up a small collection of
>Houserules and one of the first was: "If in doubt: ALWAYS use the
>English orginal - the only exception is "Deutschland in den Schatten"
>(Germany Sourcebook) !" - that way we don't have these nasty: "But in
>my book it says [insert rule] !" - discussions anymore.
Sorry to say, but this isn't a house rule: We stated in every book we made
changes in that in question of doubt the original version is the correct
one. And furthermore: As we have to pay so much roylaties to FASA that they
can pay their RPG-Police, we don't have money for our own. So as much as We
would like to hunt you down and sue the last penny out of you if you change
the rules, we can't..

I hope this explaines a bit (even if you still disagree?)
But if there are any more questions: just ask, adn if give stupid answers,
kick my butt.

Guido
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 10:24:42 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Guido Hölker <guido@******.COM>
Subject: Star Trail
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>BTW....is that you in the credits for Realms of Arkana: Star Trail?
>
UUUPS..If I say yes, you will go and beat me senseless, I assume..
But please consider that I made the storyboarding and nothing, nothing,
nothing of the program itself (and these programming-folks changed a lot
before asking me..)before you break my legs.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:34:41 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Astral link
Comments: To: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@*****.edu>
In-Reply-To: <199612121634.LAA14150@*****.itribe.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 12 Dec 1996, Justin Pinnow wrote:

> Tim Cooper wrote:
[snip a whole bunch of stuff]

> > But, your right, this is all speculation and falls into the realm of
> > "house rules" in most cases.

> No it doesn't. I am sure it's stated somewhere that blood and such from
> a crime scene can be used for a limited amount of time as a ritual
> sorcery link. There is even a table that tells you what the TN
> modifiers are and how long the samples will be useable as a link with
> and without proper preservation...check the grimmy. (I would guess
> that's where it would be.)
>

[snip some more]

>
> _____________________________________________________________________________
> Justin Pinnow


Sorry, my reference to "House rules" was for the whole theory on astral
space and what the actual links were, not on the fact that they are
documentable in SR (which I am well aware of).

You're right about the links, objects and blood, etc..

~Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 05:55:14 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Peter Bailey <pbailey@***.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Rarity of Initiates (was Re: Gradual Initiation)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.PMDF.3.91.961211100355.547365387J-100000@*******.cwu.edu>
(from "Robert Pendergrast (Tom)" <3011_3@***.EDU>) (at Wed,
11
Dec 1996 10:05:04 -0700)

Hi Robert,

[SNIP]
>> why I was trying to make initiates rarer than is presented in some
>> people's games and FASA scenarios.
>
> Ok, you that's 1 out of 800... how many people are there in just the
> seattle area in 2050??

Downtown Seattle only; 545000 population. (Seattle Sourcebook)
Initiates grade 4 + : 681 (mathematically figured...)

--

Internet: pbailey@***.com.au Fidonet: 3:640/281.3

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Member Team AMIGA
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:56:36 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Magic Rating
In-Reply-To: <199612130844.DAA28370@*****.itribe.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 13 Dec 1996, Calvin Hsieh wrote:

> Greetings people,
>
> One quickie - what is the significance of maintaining a high magic rating?
> As far as I can see, the only thing the magic attribute is used for is to
> determine the max force rating on a spell before the drain becomes physical
> damage. Can anyone elaborate? The SR index is not too crash hot and I'm too
> lazy to read the whole damn thing end to end to find references.
>
> Shaman
>

Lets see, off the top of my head:

Physical versus Stun drain (already mentioned)
Spell area affects.
Limited range spells (range = successes x Magic rating)
Speed in Astral space (something like MR x 1000 meters/unit time)
Banishing (it's embarassing when you get beat by low force spirits)
T#'s when researching and designing spells (10 minus MR)
Physads. (no brainer)

um...anything else?

~Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 05:51:24 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Brian W Allison <ballison@*******.WAM.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bye de Bye!
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19961213164430.084f305c@*******.acsu.unsw.edu.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 13 Dec 1996, Calvin Hsieh wrote:

> At 01:23 PM 12/12/96 +0100, you wrote:
> >Calvin Hsieh said on 17:46/12 Dec 96...
> >
> >> Hey, I beat you all - I got out on the 28th November and don't have to go
> >> back until the beginning of March!
> >
> >I got out around mid-July.
> >
> >In 1994.
> >
> >Beat that :)
> >
>
> I stand here humbled before the CEO of holidays - Gurth!
>
> Shaman ;)

Hm. I got out, as it were, May of '94.

I take classes now because I want to and because I get a free PPP
connection. :)



Brian W. Allison

Computer Scientist Vocalist Would-be Poet Bicycler Scuba Diver
Hacker(0xca) Nerd(79) GenX(21) #include <witticism.h>
http://www.wam.umd.edu/~ballison

--- Unsolicited Commercial E-Mail is not welcome at this account ---
--- and will result in a US$500 fee per US Code Title 47 Sec 227. ---
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 11:08:07 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: Astral link

Tim Cooper writes

> Realistically speaking, what's stopping an organized corp security team
> from sweeping the sections of their building where us runners have been
> (and possibly been involved in fire-fights) looking for things like hair
> and blood samples to turn over to Magical Security...especially if what
> was taken is very important.
>
Fairness in the name of a game.

or 'Thats why the Steralise spell exists!' it specifically kills off
this sort of thing.

Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 11:09:59 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: Magicians

Czar Eggbert writes

> OK Quick Question: Can you lock, quicken, ect., a Controle Actions spell?
>
Sure, but you might find changing the actions later rather tricky.

Suggestion is Much better (perm thought implanting no need to
quicken, no karma cost no way they can destroy it in astral combat),
or control thoughts, you are you friend AREN'T you:)

Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 11:13:49 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: Astral link

Justin Pinnow writes

> No it doesn't. I am sure it's stated somewhere that blood and such from
> a crime scene can be used for a limited amount of time as a ritual
> sorcery link.
This ones in the main rulebook, essence hours if memory serves, put
freezers and preserve spells soon solve that.

>
> The whole idea behind ritual links is that they are a part of the person
> (blood, ect.) or an item that they are closely associated with (T-shirt
> from Burning Bright). It is also possible to link from something that
> has been handled by the target recently, even if he has never touched
> that object before that time (i.e. it's not his favorite shirt), but
> it's just harder to do. There are TN mods for this listed somewhere.
>
This is the stuff that has a page in the grimoire, the page also
cover voodoo dolls etc, just don't bother +12 TN's is crazy.

Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 11:28:54 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: Crater Lake -Reply

Droopy writes
> > From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
> > Subject: Crater Lake -Reply
>
> > As someone else mentioned, Crater Lake is a high magic spot. It is my guess
> > that it's creation has something to do with the end of the fourth world and the
> > destruction of Thera (Atlantis). The Tir has walled it off, for two possible
reasons
> > that I can think of:
>
> It is likely a power locus similar to the one mentioned (extremely)
> briefly in the Atzlan sourcebook.
>
The words were 'locus point', which might or mght not be a 'Country
pattern point' you see in ED anything with a NAME has a pattern,
people places objects, whoever manages to link to Gias true name
really has some power on tap!

Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 11:37:07 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: Big D Clue

"Steven A. Tinner" writes
> Subject: Big D Clue
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET

> While perusing my new copy of the SR Companion, I noticed something
> rather interesting in on of the charts.
> Since some of this might be considered SPOILER material I'll just . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Drop down here.
> SRC pg. 69 - Conyact Knowledge Table
>
> "Sheesh! I ask one lousy Yak one lousy question about security on
> Inauguration night, and she couldn't run out on me fast enough. What's
> the connection?"
Suggests they were up to something, but blackmails more likely than
presidential assaination, being chased for murder by the FBI is just
not helpful.

>
> "Nadja Daviar can't be as squeaky clean as she looks. Get me the name of
> her personal shopper and I'll show you the dirt behind her ears."
>
No one is, well not in circles like that.

> The last two are particularly interesting . . .
>
> "Project Ragnarok obviously mean something to somebody. Will you be the
> lucky recipient of my certified credstick, or should I go to one of my
> other contact?"
>
> "What does the phrase 'techno-magical elf cabal' bring to mind in
> reference to our late, lamented president?"
Young elven technologists / Ehran the scribe and friends. Got to be
something to do wirh Ehran and the powers behind the YET.
Note 'Ehran to the YET' is on shadowland in SR

>
> Somebody refresh my memory?
> Has Project Ragnarok been used in SR before?
Threats book only AFAIK

> It sounds VERY familiar to me, but I can't trace its origin.
> Also, isn't Ragnarok the final battle in Norse mythology
Yes.

> wherein Thor
> slays Jormungand (sic?) the Midgard Serpent?
don't know details, just seen it used elsewhere.

> Midgard Serpent sure sounds like it could be Dunkelzhan . . .
>
?? possible .... but no data.

> AFA techno-magical elf cabal goes they now have my vote for the "Most
> likely to have killed The Big D" award.
>
The comment about freinds mounting his head in Tir taingire open
session says they watch him but Lofwrys comment in Dunks secrets
to two silly dragons chatting suggests he didn't step over the
giveaways line, Ehran Harlequin and friends set for him so i doubt
the immortal elevs did it, despite the 'shame when we have to kill
him' by Harlequin to frosty in the 'Wyrm talk' flyer.

> <Am I starting to sound like Mulder? :-)>

Arn't we all.

Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 12:59:37 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Johnny Mnemonic once again (was Re: FASA and Hollywood)

GRANITE said on 8:14/12 Dec 96...

> Why wouldn't you want to see it??? There are some really good portrayals of
> the way things could be in that movie..I thought it was a great first
> step toward a real SR movie..It introduces the
> lifestyle..Deckers..Samis..implant Tech..Some of the same exotic
> weapons..as well as the Mr Johnson concept..and the basic plot "the
> runner will be screwed by just about everybody"..What's snot to
> like???

I read the short story several years ago, and what I've seen of the movie
is just too far removed from what I remember to be JM to me, but still
too close to be something totally different (does that make sense?).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It's just too bad.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 12:59:36 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Oni and magic

Loki said on 12:41/12 Dec 96...

> Under the new meta-race of Oni, it says "at the gamemaster's discretion,
> players creating oni characters may slecet magic as priority A and
> Metahuman as priority B."
>
> I can't see what game mechanics difference that makes at all. Whether its
> magic at A and metahuman at B, or methahuman at A and magic at B, I just
> don't see that anything really changes. Granted there might be some
> roleplaying possibilities as to how a magic A or magic B person would view
> things, but no numbers or points change at all.

Absolutely nothing, if you ask me. You still only have C, D, and E left
for other things -- it looks a lot like making a mundane human, where you
have to make the big decision about whether to award E to race and D to
magic, or the other way round :)

One thing that this might do, depending on how you interpret the text, is
that it allows you to make a mundane metahuman at priority B instead of A.
That would leave A free for attributes, skills, or resources...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It's just too bad.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 12:59:37 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: (GM) Big D Clue

Steven A. Tinner said on 11:53/12 Dec 96...

> While perusing my new copy of the SR Companion, I noticed something
> rather interesting in on of the charts.
> Since some of this might be considered SPOILER material I'll just . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Somebody refresh my memory?
> Has Project Ragnarok been used in SR before?

As has been said already, the Winternight chapter in Threats makes
references to Ragnarok.

> It sounds VERY familiar to me, but I can't trace its origin.
> Also, isn't Ragnarok the final battle in Norse mythology wherein Thor
> slays Jormungand (sic?) the Midgard Serpent?
> Midgard Serpent sure sounds like it could be Dunkelzhan . . .

I thought it was when Fenrir the wolf ate the sun? (Note that most of my
knowledge in this area comes from watching Erik the Viking several times
over the past few years, so it might be slightly distorted from the truth :)

> AFA techno-magical elf cabal goes they now have my vote for the "Most
> likely to have killed The Big D" award.

Maybe this links up with the phone conversation in Cybertechnology.

> <Am I starting to sound like Mulder? :-)>

I suppose you've got the X-Files CCG too? :)

(I also suppose Mike loves all this speculation about things mentioned in
two lines of one sourcebook :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It's just too bad.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 12:59:36 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Rarity of Initiates (was Re: Gradual Initiation)

Spike said on 15:02/12 Dec 96...

> |3,106,000
>
> 3,106,076
> (There'd been a few birth between your post and mine....)
> -(;-})

Those 76 are statistical errors :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It's just too bad.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 12:59:37 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Magic Rating

Calvin Hsieh said on 16:45/13 Dec 96...

> One quickie - what is the significance of maintaining a high magic rating?
> As far as I can see, the only thing the magic attribute is used for is to
> determine the max force rating on a spell before the drain becomes physical
> damage. Can anyone elaborate? The SR index is not too crash hot and I'm too
> lazy to read the whole damn thing end to end to find references.

The most important thing about a high magic rating is that it governs when
you take Stun drain and when it becomes physical. Other uses are: the area
of an area-effect spell is based on your magic rating; when banishing a
spirit, you temporarily lose magic rating if the spirit is winning, so the
higher it is the longer you can go on; and it decides how many Magic Pool
dice you can add to any test.

There are more, but these are the most important ones.

> Shaman

Maybe you should add "Student" before that nick :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It's just too bad.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 12:59:37 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Magic Rating

Guido Hoelker said on 10:24/13 Dec 96...

> It determines the time you can stay astral

No, that's Essence. Even with a Magic Rating of 10 but an Essence of .25,
you can stay astral for only 15 minutes.

> And for Physads it's vene more important, of course..

Naturally.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It's just too bad.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 12:59:37 +0100
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Bye de Bye!

Steven A. Tinner said on 11:33/12 Dec 96...

> > I got out around mid-July.
> > In 1994.
> > Beat that :)
>
> OK. I was done May 12, 1992.

But what have you been doing in the mean time?

> But I suspect that Pete Sims can beat us all here.
> <Not that you're old or anything Petey :-)>

He's advanced in age, that's all :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It's just too bad.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 12:59:37 +0100
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Spelllocks....

Georg Greve said on 16:22/12 Dec 96...

> Hehehe. It really reminded me of the movie "Top Secret" - there is a
> scene where one guy shoots a machine gun into a room that is filled
> with lots of good and bad guys. He just shoots blindly into the room
> and all the bad guys drop down dead while all the good guys are still
> standing. *grin*

Chocolate Mousse, the black guy who drinks gasoline :) I think he had a
smartlink...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
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-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 07:48:19 -0500
Reply-To: jpinnow@*****.edu
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@*****.EDU>
Organization: University of Michigan Cancer Center
Subject: Re: Grounding through mages (was: Re: Spelllocks....)
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Georg Greve wrote:

> Justin Pinnow (jpinnow@*****.edu) wrote:
> : I don't see why the soul is considered destroyable as a physical object,
> : but the body is not. That doesn't make sense to me. My argument was

> The soul is not as destroyable as a physical object - it is as
> destroyable as any living/"life spiritual"/magical part/link.

Okay, this is where our primary difference is. I feel that spiritual
links can't be directly targeted and destroyed by magic, but that
magical links can. I see it as the spiritual link being severed because
of physical death.

> : that the being's link with their spirit is not a material object that
> : can be destroyed via grounding. Thus, their body can take damage, but
> : not their spirit (or link to it).

> Ah. That's where your misunderstanding lies. Grounding does not destroy
> physical things primarily. The primary effect is destroying the
> astral/spiritual pathway it is using for getting through to the
> mundane plane. IF the physical part is attacked at all (it doesn't
> have to, although it often is) it is attacked by whatever was grounded
> through, not by the process of grounding itself.

I haven't seen a description of grounding that describes it as attacking
the spiritual link (or any link). I have seen descriptions that state
that grounding travels via the link, but that doesn't mean the link is
in itself is attacked.

I don't think grounding was really designed as another way to kill
mages. I see it as a way to destroy foci, or at least render them
temporarily inactive and as a way to attack those nasty continually dual
natured critters. Now, when it comes to killing critters via grounding,
I don't see it as the grounding that killed the critters, but the spell
that killed the critters--the grounding was just the method used.
Again, this is my opinion, and may not have any written support in the
rules. We may just have to agree to disagree on this point.

> : If you have 9 boxes of damage in each condition monitor and you enter
> : astral space, you DESERVE to be killed. Besides, you don't need to
> : ground to do it...a quick astral combat will do the trick too. ;)

> Huh ? This just means that you have to fight someone down in order to
> be able to ground through him (just as I think it should be) - and I
> didn't say he had the boxes before entering the astal plane.

I am referring to the example you gave where someone could be killed via
a single grounding if they had both condition monitors at 9 boxes of
damage....I was supporting what you said, but stating that grouding
certainly wasn't necessary at that point.

> : However, the point I made still stands.

> Sorry, but I don't see that - you just misunderstood what I said and I
> think you misunderstood the concept of grounding, because grounding
> does not work on the physical part on the first hand. It is like using
> a hammer to open a window (whether it is stronger or weaker, bigger or
> smaller of a different color or shape does not count): it is broken
> afterwards.

Again, I think you are interpreting grounding differently than myself.
I haven't seen any text from the rules to back it up either way, so I
don't think either of us can claim to be right or wrong. The point that
I was referring to as "still standing" was that it would be extremely
difficult to kill someone with a single grounding. I don't think that
has been refuted successfully.

> : Since this is a book, the author has creative liscense. This
> : description can be used to support your views of the astral link between
> : body and spirit, but don't expect others to do the same. ;)

> I didn't, but I just thought it shows a very good and logical way
> about how the whole concept of "grounding through mages" should be
> understood.

Of course. Again, just keep in mind that it isn't canon and may not
have any relevance at all to what the rules are intended to uphold.

> : Uh, no. :) If you don't ground through successfully, NO ONE would take
> : any damage (except maybe the casting mage due to drain). Thus, it would
> : be a completely wasted effort. Sure, have your psycho magical duo
> : ground through each other, but if mage a succeeds in grounding through
> : mage b, then mage b will take damage from the spell (and so would anyone
> : close to mage b, if it was an area effect spell).

> Sure. But There are several spells you could use for grounding (not
> only combat spells - remember: ONLY manipulation and mana based
> spells cannot be used for grounding - every other spell could be
> used) and you could use a spell that wouldn't really do harm to the
> mage you ground through but take out the others

But that's my point. How could you ground an area effect spell through
the mage that would take out those around him but not affect him?
That's not possible. He's within the area of effect. My point is that
a mage opening himself up for grounding in order to take out a group of
people wouldn't do him much good. :) He would be affected by whatever
was grounded through him because he is within it's area of effect.
Also, since it's extremely difficult to cast a single spell that would
completely overcome the mage enough to ground out through him, this
would be a hard act to pull off, even if the mage didn't mind being
killed or knocked unconscious in order to take out those around him
(remember that overcoming the mage would require filling all 10
condition monitor boxes on either the physical or stun level).

> : Also, your body and willpower would resist spells as normal...I don't
> : see how there is a way to voluntarily allow yourself to not
> : resist....you can choose not to use spell defense, etc., but your
> : attributes will always do their best.

> Sure. But do you really think that attributes alone will allow you to
> resist any decent spell completely ? Just think about area effect
> spells like "Decrease Willpower" & "Decrease Charisma" - a
decent
> version of these spells will most probably take out every non-mage
> (with an attribute of 0 or lower you are completely defenseless and
> unable to move) while the "grounding post" will just suffer some lower
> attributes until he did whatever he wanted to do to the other
> characters...

Yes, but in order to overcome a mage enough to ground through him, you
have to completely overcome him...this is done as I stated above....in
which case, it is very difficult to do, not just ONE spell.

> : > : Just my opinion. :)
> : > Isn't it always ? ;-)
> : Yep. :)

> O.k. - this is how I see it and right now we are starting to run
> around in circles. So if you still don't see my point you should read
> the postings I wrote during the last days - I will only write more
> about this when there is something new coming up, because otherwise
> this is threatening to become a "I am right !" shouting contest like
> other threads did.

Fine by me. I have seen your point, but I just don't agree. I can live
with that. :)

<Snip>

Justin
--
_____________________________________________________________________________
Justin Pinnow
jpinnow@*****.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 13:34:46 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: [SR2] Crater Lake

Ubiquitous writes

> >> OK, here's the deal: I'm planning to send my players into Tir
> >> Tairngire. Does anyone have the scoop as to what Those Wacky Elves
> >> (TM) are up to at Crater Lake? If you're not able to speak "ex
> >> cathedra", as it were, how about some educated guesses?
> >
There are AFAIK no real hard clues, lots of guesses can be made
however.
We do know.
They cordoned the place off.
The location of the Tir was not chosen for convenience : most likely
it was chosen to include crater lake but theres no proof of that.
There are big lumps 'the size of city blocks' floating above the
lake. But nowhere does it say if the elvels put them there or if they
rose out of the lake with the mana and the elves are investigating
them or whatever.

> >Whatever they were doing, their plans have been seriously altered
> >recently, when Harlequin and Aina allowed several powerful Horrors to
> >cross over at the Lake while employing blood magic to destroy the Horror
> >Ysgarthe. These events were detailed in the novel Worlds Without End.
Not accurate.
close but. Note this is a detailed spoiler for the novel.



Harlequin and Ania where on a road near crater lake when Ysgarthe
appeared, one commented (Ania i think) that he probably couldn't deal
with both of them, then Harlequins legs both snapped and Ania cast
the spell that wrapped Ysgarthe in the cocoon. [the spell used on
Harlequin matches the description of an Earthdawn nethermancer spell
called boneshatter, its 6th circle if memory serves and does multiple
attacks, up to three per target, and maximum attacks equal to
spellcasting talent rank (in the case of Ysgarthe that could be 30+)
It is plain Horrendous and yes i would believe a horror that big
doing in Harlequin in one shot with it, three hits at step 40+Karma
(remember this is a horror we're talking about, karma step lots!)]
[note some ED terminology in the above, in Sr read TOTALLY DEADLY]
This left Harlequin unconcious so he had no part in what happened
next as Ania was towed to crater lake by Ysgarthe.
She then used the blood magic, boosted by drawing power from the
Crater lake power site to splatter Ysgarthe (this is the power surge
Dunklezhan refers to in his comments about the subject).
We don't know if any horrors slipped through right then but she
created another BIG spikepoint that will allow more horrors through,
given the loss of the Great Ghost Dance one to them, (after HB) this
seems the next best place for them to build a replacment bridge to.
oh joy, and why Ania realised afterwards all she could do now is wait
for the fateful day, she's created a new place for the army to arrive
too early, right after Harlequin stopped up the last one!

>
> I thought that before the end of the last magic cycle, they created a
> hidden cache of weapons etc., a la Parlainth, and are trying to call it
> back by tapping the ley line there.
>
Pure speculation i'm affraid.

> I seem to recall reading someone recognizing the significance of when the
> Crater Lake volcano last erupted.
>
The date of that is in Tir Taingire. The end of the forth world date
is in 'Ehran to the Young Elven Technologists' I have a compiled
calander of 'best fit dates' someplace but the files been posted
several times before. However there are now probably quite a few
folks that haven't seen it here.

Can repost if requested.

Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 13:38:55 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: Crater Lake

John Jacobsma writes

> > recently, when Harlequin and Aina allowed several powerful Horrors to
no only Ania was guilty as drek, see my other post on this thread.

> > cross over at the Lake whil employing blood magic to destroy the Horror
> > Ysgarthe. These events were detailed in the novel Worlds Without End.

> That's seems like a good guess to me, even though we're pretty
> certain that Thera was on the other side of the world.
The maps match, for it being in south Eastern Europe / far East Med.

> Makes me
> wonder why Ehran and Oakforest picked the Pacific NW as the location
> for the Land of Promise. Probably just being practical.
No, it wasn't the easist, there was another reason (unspecified)

> There is a
> reference on p. 22 of the sourcebook (shadowtalk, so it may be drek)
> that gives the exact date of Crater Lake's formation as 22-JUL-3454
> B.C. (At 9:35 AM!) Does this correspond to the destruction of Thera?
>
Don't think so but can check, i have both dates, can post the
calander (see other post) again if required.

> Not very well! ;)
>
oh???????????????????????????

Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 16:52:26 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Joachim H A Buchert <avo_jb@**.HELSINKI.FI>
Subject: Re: Genetics and immortality
In-Reply-To: <01BBE869.487BBEA0@*******>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Thu, 12 Dec 1996, John Jacobsma wrote:

> Joachim continued:
> > Different types of immortality, sure:
> > 1) You will not die from old age
> > 2) You will not die from physical harm
> > 3) Both of the above.
>
> I only consider #1 to be "pure" immortality. #2 is invulnerability.
> #3 is immortality + invulnerability. Now we understand each other's
> terms. BTW, #2 & 3 will not exist in my world. If you manage to drop
> a 16 ton weight on Harlequin, he _will_ die. (Good luck!)

Yes, merely pointing out those. Neither will I consider anyone
invulnerable. Or well, dragons are effectively invulnerable in my game,
but that's another matter entirely. :)

> > Or something different. It might not be pure genetics, I repeat.
>
> OK, point taken. I think it makes the most sense, using Occam's
> Razor, to say that magic is _not_ required to sustain immortality, so
> that's the way it is in my world. But you're quite right, there are
> other (more complicated, to my mind) possibilities.

Funny, I think using Occam's Razor here would actually result in magic
being very much a part of this. Of course, personally I've never considered
Occam's Razor that good, and knowing FASA, we're probably dealing with
something quite complicated. I should hope they've thought it out as much as
we and others have.

> Joachim responded:
> > Yes, mana was low, but not non-existant, so it does not have to
> > sustainable in an 'exceptable' way, definately not.
>
> Good point. You're right, of course. We don't know if mana ever hits
> zero, but it seems likely that it does not. It's possible that only a
> tiny amount of mana is required to sustain the immortality gene, and
> the mana curve never goes below that threshold, or doesn't go below
> it long enough for the immortals to age and die.
>
> Hmm, there's an interesting thought: what if the immortals age a few
> years at the low point in ecah cycle? After twenty or thirty cycles,
> even elves would be getting geriatric. (Doesn't have much of an
> effect on the campaign, but it's interesting.)

Actually I thought about this myself. It's an intriguing idea, though
what will a few years (or some ten years) change in an elf, who are long
lived even without this particular gene? Not much, unless they live
through several 'Worlds'.

Now, I currently support the theory that the dragons are the orginators
of the elven immortality factor. Somehow, they eliminated the
reincarnating spirit of the elves (if there indeed is one) and forced the
spirit to live its whole life in one body. Now, if this is true, I
believe magic is as large a part of this affair as I've supported.

But frankly, since we nor anyone in the SR universe doesn't have an
immortal test subject, we can't speculare too much without starting to
argue over facts we have no real idea of. It seems we've reached a logical
conclusion, to be continued when we get new products with information on
this, and I do hope they will someday in the future explore this angle of
immortality. I am sure the corps, or universities, or practically anyone,
would not jump over a chance to study immortality.

- J -
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 15:11:06 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: Genetics and immortality

Joachim H A Buchert writes

> On Thu, 12 Dec 1996, John Jacobsma wrote:
>
> >
> > I only consider #1 to be "pure" immortality. #2 is invulnerability.
> > #3 is immortality + invulnerability. Now we understand each other's
> > terms. BTW, #2 & 3 will not exist in my world. If you manage to drop
> > a 16 ton weight on Harlequin, he _will_ die. (Good luck!)
>
The problems getting Harlequin to stand in the way long enough :)

> Yes, merely pointing out those. Neither will I consider anyone
> invulnerable. Or well, dragons are effectively invulnerable in my game,
> but that's another matter entirely. :)
>
The full blown Great Dragons i consider invulnerable simply because i
don't want to have to work out stats for something that is immune to
anything there are game stats for except trunks full of C12. Yes
enough C12 and i don't care how much armour its got. Sure some of the
published great dragon stats are more than killable but show them the
Grimoire the way most folke do PC's and i don't think so somehow,
even assuming an int 9+ critter is stupid enough to let you get that
close. And before you suggest nuking it from orbit even theromnukes
have to land within about 10 miles of the wretched dragon to work,
happy hunting :)

Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 15:28:08 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Magic Rating
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19961213164435.084f49b4@*******.acsu.unsw.edu.au> from
"Calvin Hsieh" at Dec 13, 96 04:45:00 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|
|Greetings people,
|
|One quickie - what is the significance of maintaining a high magic rating?
|As far as I can see, the only thing the magic attribute is used for is to
|determine the max force rating on a spell before the drain becomes physical
|damage. Can anyone elaborate? The SR index is not too crash hot and I'm too
|lazy to read the whole damn thing end to end to find references.

Magic rating is also used to determine area effect of spells, how much
punishment a mage can take whilst trying to banish a spirit, and some other
stuff that I'm not too sure of at the moment....

(Ahhh, and the astral pool..... (In 1stEd before anyone jumps on me))
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 11:32:07 -0800
Reply-To: bluewizard@*****.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: (GM) Big D Clue
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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<SNIP Ragnarok stuff>

> I thought it was when Fenrir the wolf ate the sun? (Note that most of my
> knowledge in this area comes from watching Erik the Viking several times
> over the past few years, so it might be slightly distorted from the truth :)

Well most of my Norse mythology comes from reading Marvel's Thor comic,
so I guess we're both screwed! :-)

> > <Am I starting to sound like Mulder? :-)>
>
> I suppose you've got the X-Files CCG too? :)

Nope. I've actually only ever sen one episode of the show. Forced myself
to watch it in hopes that it might prove useful to SR. No such luck,
although the Episode was the Wendigo one. I thought about it, but
decided against it. :-)
Actually the one novel that was published was MUCH better/more useful.
Fox and Dana go chasing after a blind, disfigured polynesian islander
whose home island was used for nuke testing in the 1940's for WWII.
This guy's a shaman, and is using the volcanic ash, mixed with human
reamins found on the island to summon vengeful radiation spirits!
For SR, I guess you'd say these critters have the spirit powers of
Engulf:Radiation - which causes a localized nuclear strike.
Fun!

> (I also suppose Mike loves all this speculation about things mentioned in
> two lines of one sourcebook :)

Don't suppose there's anyway you'd give us a hint is there Mike? Hmmmm?
<How do you bribe a FASA rep anyway? :-)>
--
Steven A. Tinner
http://www.ncweb.com:80/users/bluewizard/
FAMOUS LAST WORDS
"If I see another one of these fraggin' robots . . ."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 11:41:09 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Peter David Boddy <pdboddy@****.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Re: Johnny Mnemonic once again (was Re: FASA and Hollywood)
In-Reply-To: <199612131159.MAA25272@**********.xs4all.nl>; from "Gurth"
at Dec
13, 96 12:59 pm

Gurth writes:
> GRANITE said on 8:14/12 Dec 96...
> > Why wouldn't you want to see it??? There are some really good portrayals of
> > the way things could be in that movie..I thought it was a great first
> > step toward a real SR movie..It introduces the
> > lifestyle..Deckers..Samis..implant Tech..Some of the same exotic
> > weapons..as well as the Mr Johnson concept..and the basic plot "the
> > runner will be screwed by just about everybody"..What's snot to
> > like???

Don't forget cyborgs...

> I read the short story several years ago, and what I've seen of the movie
> is just too far removed from what I remember to be JM to me, but still
> too close to be something totally different (does that make sense?).

Yes it makes sense. I haven't read the short story, but I have seen the
movie. I thought the movie was a pretty good portrayal of the 'Net, and
brain implants. Strange Days had a more Shadowrun-ish atmosphere, its
darker, more gritty, it shows what happens when you have too much
cyberware (or improperly installed cyberware), and it proves that you
can't trust anyone (among other things).

Pete

Pete aka Spitfire
Test your might...
at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/8920/index.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter David Boddy
Carleton University
Email address: pdboddy@****.carleton.ca
Email address: bx955@*******.carleton.ca
----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 10:35:57 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Faux Pas <thomas@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Friday the 13th
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:35 AM 12/12/96 -0600, another Evil GM wrote:
> (First if all, I'm sorry for sending this to the list, but I
>can't find Bull's address. Oh well, it'll be interesting to see other
>people's feedback..)
>
> One episode that could be changed into a SR adventure without
>much alteration would be the snake rattle. It's the one where a NA who
>just isn't quite up to the requirements ot be a shaman becomes a doctor
>instead. He gets ahold of a rattle that will completely cure a patient
>after it kills someone else first. Perhaps if you're feeling _realy_
>sadistic, have him be part of the next DocWagon team that shows up.

Hmmm...

Perhaps have the medic a closeted Humanis member who doesn't mind offing a
meta so a "pure" human can be saved... Oh yeah, this could be a good
antagonist.


-Thomas Deeny
Cartoonist at Large

"Why does everyone want to tell me thier life's story?"
-Arthur Dent, "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 09:46:37 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Magic Rating
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Greetings people,
>
> One quickie - what is the significance of maintaining a high magic
rating?
> As far as I can see, the only thing the magic attribute is used for is to
> determine the max force rating on a spell before the drain becomes
physical
> damage. Can anyone elaborate? The SR index is not too crash hot and I'm
too
> lazy to read the whole damn thing end to end to find references.
>
> Shaman


It also limits the number of dice you can add to any spellcasting test from
your magic pool. It also comes in handy when breaking/using masking. And
in banishing spirits you need a high magic rating. I am sure there are a
few other reasons, but I can't think of them off hand.


Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 11:59:37 -0500
Reply-To: jpinnow@*****.edu
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@*****.EDU>
Organization: University of Michigan Cancer Center
Subject: Re: Johnny Mnemonic once again (was Re: FASA and Hollywood)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Peter David Boddy wrote:

<Snip>

> Yes it makes sense. I haven't read the short story, but I have seen the
> movie. I thought the movie was a pretty good portrayal of the 'Net, and
> brain implants. Strange Days had a more Shadowrun-ish atmosphere, its
> darker, more gritty, it shows what happens when you have too much
> cyberware (or improperly installed cyberware), and it proves that you
> can't trust anyone (among other things).

And don't forget that Angela Bassett kicked three kinds of butt in
Strange Days. :) I actually enjoyed Strange Days quite a bit. Mainly
because it really caught the paranoid feel of the Shadowrun universe. I
have (and still do) played in too many games where the other players
think I am playing my character as overly paranoid when I take the usual
basic precautions that any shadowrunner (read: CRIMINAL) should take in
order to stay alive and in business. I haven't seen another movie catch
the feel of Shadowrun anywhere near as well as Strange Days. However, I
would watch Johnny Mneumonic to fill in some details about the Matrix
and headware...oh, and what reflex enhancements can do and how they
reflect on your reputation (everyone was criticizing the sammie chic
because she was TOO hyped up in regards to reflexes...bad social thing
to do, even among fellow shadowrunners).

Justin :)
--
_____________________________________________________________________________
Justin Pinnow
jpinnow@*****.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 18:26:28 +0100
Reply-To: aloeber@***.rhein-zeitung.de
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <dloeber@****.rhein-zeitung.de>
From: Myrddin <aloeber@***.RHEIN-ZEITUNG.DE>
Organization: The Power Department
Subject: Dragon Shamans ?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hi there !
I wondered whether Dragon totem Shamans are possible and if so what
their specials power were.
Does anybody know something about this ?

Myrddin a.k.a. Andreas Loeber
email: aloeber@***.rhein-zeitung.de
homepage:http://homes.rhein-zeitung.de/~dloeber

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GU d- s+:+ a--- c++(++++) *+(++++) P L E? W++$ N o? K- w+ O+ M-
V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5+++ X+ R+ tv+ b+++ DI D+++ G e-(*) h! r% y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 16:01:57 GMT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Georg Greve <greve@*******.HANSE.DE>
Organization: Nightmare on Coin Street
Subject: Re: German Versions

Guido Hölker (guido@******.COM) wrote:
: >- The recoil modifiers for a burst is one point lower in the german
: >version
: True. Because if you make a burst with an 3-point-recoil.penalty, the whole
: burst-mode is completely senseless (you are far better of on full auto-fire
: in this cas, can hit a few targets more if the odds are right), so this was
: by intention.

Actually I think that's nonsense. We are playing the original rules
and we NEVER had any problems with it.

: >- The Grimoire has totally different working for all control
: >manipulations as well as different drain codes (in the list at the end
: >there are the original english drain codes, though).
: Also true, but if you cross-check you will see that there are a lot of
: inconsequences on the original we tried to clean up, and for the drain codes
: there are a few differences between the book and the table in the original
: already. we cleared some of them and made new in nearly the same amount; mut
: have been a blind editor here.

Sorry to say that, but: You failed miserably. There was no
clarification at all - you just screwed a lot of the spells up.

: *Schweber* is the classical german name for LAVs snce the first years of SF;

Huh ? Where from ??

: we took it because we thaough it would be better to recognize then
: *Donnervogel". A Donnervogel isn't only the correct trabnslation of T-Bird
: but a mystical northern Animal as well and we didn't want to sound it like a
: critter.

Why ? A "Hummer" sounds like an animal as well - where is the problem
with that ?

: >(Germany Sourcebook) !" - that way we don't have these nasty: "But in
: >my book it says [insert rule] !" - discussions anymore.
: Sorry to say, but this isn't a house rule: We stated in every book we made
: changes in that in question of doubt the original version is the correct
: one. And furthermore: As we have to pay so much roylaties to FASA that they
: can pay their RPG-Police, we don't have money for our own. So as much as We
: would like to hunt you down and sue the last penny out of you if you change
: the rules, we can't..

Huh ? Then why did you change rules at all if you then print "Whatever
we changed is stupid, the english original counts." into your books ?

: I hope this explaines a bit (even if you still disagree?)
: But if there are any more questions: just ask, adn if give stupid answers,

Sure. I hope you didn't feel offended too much, but I am really tired
of these German translations. Actually in my group you hide your
German sourcebooks (if you own any) - ashamed that you bought this
crap. *grin*

: kick my butt.

Cool. Thanks for the invitation ! ;-)

Later,
Georg

--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "The Clan's are marching 'gainst the law - |
| bagpipers play the tunes of war - death or glory I will find - |
| rebellion on my mind" |
| Grave Digger - "Rebellion" |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Georg Greve greve@*******.Hanse.DE |
| Tel.: +49-40-23809080 greve@*******.uni-hamburg.de |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 13:22:48 -0500
Reply-To: jpinnow@*****.edu
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@*****.EDU>
Organization: University of Michigan Cancer Center
Subject: Re: Friday the 13th
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Faux Pas wrote:
>
> At 12:35 AM 12/12/96 -0600, another Evil GM wrote:
> > (First if all, I'm sorry for sending this to the list, but I
> >can't find Bull's address. Oh well, it'll be interesting to see other
> >people's feedback..)
> >
> > One episode that could be changed into a SR adventure without
> >much alteration would be the snake rattle. It's the one where a NA who
> >just isn't quite up to the requirements ot be a shaman becomes a doctor
> >instead. He gets ahold of a rattle that will completely cure a patient
> >after it kills someone else first. Perhaps if you're feeling _realy_
> >sadistic, have him be part of the next DocWagon team that shows up.
>
> Hmmm...
>
> Perhaps have the medic a closeted Humanis member who doesn't mind offing a
> meta so a "pure" human can be saved... Oh yeah, this could be a good
> antagonist.

<Snip>

I remember this same theme used in a short story I read a long time
ago. There was a bell that was missing a clapper. The person who
bought the bell later found the clapper and attached it to the bell. It
was eventually discovered that the bell could save lives...even
resurrect when rung. The person saved had no ill side effects, even.
However, at the exact moment the bell was rung, someone died in order to
save the live of the person who was saved.

Of course, this came back to haunt the owner of the bell. The last time
he rang the bell to save someone, he tripped and fell and landed on the
bell...which broke it. He died because he was impailed in the heart
with a large shard of the broken bell.

Interesting theme, and the episode you saw seems like it can be used
quite well as an SR plot...but don't have the characters fall victim to
him...have mysterious murders be the subject, and have the PC's
investigate....maybe to "stumble" upon it through docwagon
eventually... :)

Justin
--
_____________________________________________________________________________
Justin Pinnow
jpinnow@*****.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 11:35:16 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Rookie <rookie@*******.COM>
Subject: Sig
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hey all does this look ok for my sig.?

Did some work.


-Rookie

On the third day of the second month,
In the year of two thousand and one,
there will be war. There will be death.
THERE WILL BE ARMAGEDDON.
-{Nostradamos}-
rookie@*******.com
5546@**.ev.maricopa.edu
http://www.netzone.com/~rookie
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 11:54:51 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Sig
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Hey all does this look ok for my sig.?
>
> Did some work.

Much better

Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 13:20:03 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@*NIX.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: morph (fwd)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

***

After some long Debates with my GM here is the modified "Chameleon" power
(comments FASAMike???)

New Physical Adept Power;
Body Morph: Cost=3 points (note the new name)

This power lets the adept actually change his physical body. Although
his aura remains unchanged (an elf remains an elf). These physical
changes are NOT permanent. So the adept's body must "relax" back to its
original state after some time.

There are four levels of changes; minor, moderate, serious, drastic

Minor changes; changing skin color, eye color ...

Moderate " minor cosmetic changes (nose or ears), growing a new hair color
but a haircut is required (boy talk about dark roots),
adding/removing wrinkles ...

Serious " major cosmetic changes(tusks or horns),
LIMITED height changes, LIMITED weight changes ...

Drastic " Actually trying to look EXACTLY like someone else
(within reason of course). A dwarf is NEVER going to
be able to impersonate a troll. The adept must also
have a means of knowing exactly what the intended target
looks like.

Drawbacks:
Nothing is free in this world

1) The basics
a) time required to make the changes
time req'd for MINOR change= 10 seconds + [(6*1d6)/magic rating ] * seconds
" " MODERATE change= 10 minutes + [(6*1d6)/magic rating ] * minutes
" " SERIOUS change= 30 minutes + [(6*1d6)/magic rating ] * minutes
" " DRASTIC change= 1 Hour + [(6*1d6)/magic rating ] * hours

note: the adept must use his whole concentration while making the
change. (Treat as healing stun damage) Any distraction and the adept
must resist physical damage of 4 (L,M,S) respectively, and start the
changing process all over again.

b) time that the change can be maintained
time for MINOR change= 7 days + [(6*1d6)/magic rating ] * days
time for MODERATE change= 5 days + [(1d6)/magic rating ] * day
time for SERIOUS change= 3 days + [(1d6)/magic rating ] * day
time for DRASTIC change= 1 day + [(6*1d6)/magic rating ] * hours

c) Resisting pain of the transformation
The Adept must make a willpower test versus target numbers of
(3,5,8,10)S Stun for minor, moderate, serious, drastic changes respectively
(treat as resisting Drain in the standard way). The adept will keep any
residual stun as long as he is using this power.

d) Observing In Detail
The numbers 3,5,8,10 are also the amount ADDED to any "observe in
detail". Note: this power does NOTHING to change a persons voice or
mannerisms.
For example; Leon the Chameleon is trying to fool a cop. He has changed
his appearance to resemble an elf. The base target number for an
observe in detail is 4, changing to resemble an elf is a moderate change
so the new target number would be 4+5=9

2) Other Required Adept Powers
The adept must select at least level 1 Flexibility (of course),

3) Unallowed Cyberware;
"Real physical adepts don't use cyberware"
- My GM
Certain cyberware would be damaged or cause damage to the adept during
the changing process, so certain types of cyberware cannot be used.
-Wired Reflexes; any drastic changes would cause the micrscopic wires to
break causing catastrophic failure of this cyberware.
(Boosted Reflexes is o.k. but costs twice the essence)
-Move by Wire; same as above
-Bone Lacing; the lacing would prevent the bones from stretching and
shifting as they need to. This would be considered a distraction
to the adept making him resist physical damage every time
-Skill Wires; same as above
But just a chipjack is perfectly o.k.
-Any other cyberware that I can't think of off hand.

4) ALL Bioware is unallowed
Since the bioware is not part of the adepts real body he cannot control
those parts. In some cases the changing process could cause failure to
the bioware (fluid rerouters, decentralized heart...) which would be a
major bummer.

5) The LIMITED part in the drastic changes;
Since the adept doesn't have access to all the magic he cannot make
something out of nothing. All he can do is move parts of his own body
around.

-Height Changes; The adept can only change his height by (magic rating/2)%
for example 6% of a 100cm tall person is 6 cm

-Weight Changes; The adept can only make his weight appear to change. If
a 200 kg man makes a drastic change to appear like a little old lady he
still weighs 200 kg.


6) "Relaxation" Time (and no I don't mean on the beach)
The more drastic a change is the less time an adept can maintain it. The
body must relax to its original state.
Controlled Relaxation; The Adept must follow the same procedure
he followed to create the change. It takes the same amount of time
If he is distracted then he resists damage like above.

Uncontrolled Relaxation; This occurs when the adept is rendered
unconcious (by any means) or his time is up. In this case must resist
physical damage at one power level higher than he started
(i.e. L -> M, M -> S, S -> D). Also if the adepts time runs out
he is effectively unconscious for however long it takes his body to
relax.

I think that this is a more balanced version of this power. After Christmas
I will play this character and I'll let everyone know how things are shaking
out.

Once again I would appreciate any comments or suggestions.
mail either to me at wma6617@*nix.tamu.edu
or to Thomas (the old Faux Pas) at Thomas@******.infobahn.com



regards

Bill
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 13:37:02 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Q (not from Star Trek)" <Scott.E.Meyer@*HEATON.EDU>
Subject: Re: (GM) Big D Clue
In-Reply-To: <199612131159.MAA25307@**********.xs4all.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 13 Dec 1996, Gurth wrote:

[snip stuff about Dunkelzahn]

> > Somebody refresh my memory?
> > Has Project Ragnarok been used in SR before?
>
> As has been said already, the Winternight chapter in Threats makes
> references to Ragnarok.
>
> > It sounds VERY familiar to me, but I can't trace its origin.
> > Also, isn't Ragnarok the final battle in Norse mythology wherein Thor
> > slays Jormungand (sic?) the Midgard Serpent?
> > Midgard Serpent sure sounds like it could be Dunkelzhan . . .
>
> I thought it was when Fenrir the wolf ate the sun? (Note that most of my
> knowledge in this area comes from watching Erik the Viking several times
> over the past few years, so it might be slightly distorted from the truth :)

In Norse mythology, Ragnarok is basically Armageddon. A lot of things
happen, including the slaying of the Midgard Serpent (after it lays waste
to the world, it's a long story), the sun and moon are both eaten,
Valhalla is pretty much trashed, the Ice Giants are released upon the
world, Yggdrasil (the world tree) is felled, etc., but I don't
think any of them stand out particularly as the deciding factor, it's just
a standard end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it scenario, the whole deal comes
crashing down. Mind you, I've never technically _studied_ mythology, but
I was greatly interested in it for quite a while and read all I could get
my hands on. I don't think I could describe Ragnarok in much greater
detail without going extensively into the mythology.

-Q

---------------------------------------
I used to think I was indecisive. Now, I'm not so sure.

Scott "Q" Meyer
Scott.E.Meyer@*******.edu
http://johnh.wheaton.edu/~smeyer
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 21:56:59 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <pr-MIke@************.Germany.EU.net>
From: Mike Hartmann <hartmann@***********.M.EUNET.DE>
Subject: Re: German Versions

On 12 Dec 96 at 15:38, Guido Hoelker wrote:

> >Ah. So you can maybe tell me why the translation of so many
> >sourcebooks is so bad ? Was it intended to create a new RPG or was it
> >just due to some people not paying enough attention ?
> >(no offense intended - I'd like a serious answer)
>
> None taken.
> Maybe you can give a few examples? I'm not sure if you are talking about
> translatons plainly (which may be just bad work by the translator, but I
> don't recall it that bad) or maybe about changes we made with intend? (which
> I consider youite good mostly abd I would be happy to explain).
> Please bear in mind that I'm working for the company but beeing only
> partially involved in SR Stuff.

You know what the problem with fanpro's politic of changing the
original rules is? It makes the german and the english versions
incompatible. In our group we use both versions (german and english),
because some of our players are not so good at english. And it gives
us (who are using the original) a hard time to explain the others
(who are using the german books), why they are wrong with their usage
of the rule - just because fanpro once more decided to change the
rules. Would it at least be possible to take down the original
version of the rule, too? Or make a hint, that you changed the rules
there? But after all, I think this policy sucks. Please stick to the
original - there are more than enough problems with the german
versions, just because your translators do not seem to be too proficient
with the english language. OFTEN enough they miss the semantic behind
a rule or explanation of the english text. That's why I stick to
english books.

Btw. What does FASA think about that?

Mike

couldn't
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 10:49:02 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Buckalew <mike_buckalew@******.COM>
Subject: Inquest's 97 Shadowrun Preview
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

The latest Inquest (#21) has an article previewing a lot of the upcoming
gaming products for 1997. The one's that it lists for Shadowrun are:

- Predator and Prey - "This shadowrun adventure due in July will pit man
against beast as players are taken out of the familiar urban sprawl and
dumped onto the hunting grounds of some of the deadliest paranormal
critters in existence. 96 pages. $15.

- Rigger II - "This shadowrun sourcebook due in August will provide the
same type of indepth rules for riggers that Virtual Realities 2.0 and
Awakenings provided for deckers and magicians, including special sections
on T-bird smuggling, robotics ans suborbitals. 144 pages. $18.

- Cyber-Pirates - "This shdowrun sourcebook due in October will sweep
players into the dangers and thrills of piracy in 2058, including the
technology, tactics and havens the cyberpirates call home.

- Target UCAS - "This May release will give the lowdon on those locales
in the world of Shadowrun where the status quo may blow sky-high at any
second, including info on big events that gamemasters can use to trigger
faction fights, turf wars and power plays galore.

- The Underworld Sourcebook - "The dark secrets of the 21st century's
street gangs will be revealed in "The Underworld Sourcebook" (February)
for Shadowrun, just in time to prepare players for the tentatively-titled
"Underworld Adventures" (March).


Buck
(Mike Buckalew)
buck@******.com

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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 17:21:38 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Rarity of Initiates (was: Gradual Initiation)

On Thu, 12 Dec 1996 13:23:49 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>Robert Pendergrast (Tom) said on 10:05/11 Dec 96...
>
>> Ok, you that's 1 out of 800... how many people are there in just the
>> seattle area in 2050??
>
>3,106,000
>
<snip .sig>
That makes for a grand total of 3882...not many, but not a small number,
either. After all, my dad grew up in a town not much bigger than that
(and my uncle lives in one A LOT smaller:). So, while Initiates aren't
exactly common, I think they'd be getting more common as time goes on,
and I think that there are probably enough to use for limited run-ins
with the PCs. Here's another question: of the 3882, how many do you
figure work for corps (including Lonestar)


John Pederson "God is dead"
lobo1@****.com canthros1@***.com -Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 to
1900)
members.aol.com/lenoj001/johns.htm "Nietzsche is dead"
Only dead fish swim with the stream -God (everlasting to everlasting)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 17:21:39 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Melee Weapons

On Thu, 12 Dec 1996 15:49:58 -0500 Marc A Renouf
<jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU> writes:
>On Tue, 10 Dec 1996, John E Pederson wrote:
>
>> Yeah, and the staffman also has better defensive capabilities than the
>> swordsman (nearly equivalent weight, greater reach, better leverage
due
>> to more area to grip his weapon, etc) Personally, if I were a
swordsman
>> (which I'm not, but...) I'd think twice about going up against a
staffman
>> who looks like he knows what he's doing.
>
> Weapon advantages/disadvantages notwithstanding, that is
precisely
>why you train with *both* weapons, so you know not only how they are
>used, but how they will be used against you and how to deal with them.
>This principle can and should be applied to *all* weapons, even
firearms.
>
>Marc
>
Good point. Yet another thing I hadn't thought about. I still think the
man with the quarterstaff has a better chance blocking/defending against
the man with the sword...but I think the swordsman's got enough of an
advantage offensively to at least equalize things. But, I think I'd take
a pike over either one any day.


John Pederson "God is dead"
lobo1@****.com canthros1@***.com -Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 to
1900)
members.aol.com/lenoj001/johns.htm "Nietzsche is dead"
Only dead fish swim with the stream -God (everlasting to everlasting)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 22:39:56 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Rarity of Initiates (was: Gradual Initiation)
In-Reply-To: <19961213.172222.22319.2.lobo1@****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0

In message <19961213.172222.22319.2.lobo1@****.com>, John E Pederson
<lobo1@****.COM> writes
>That makes for a grand total of 3882...not many, but not a small number,
>either. After all, my dad grew up in a town not much bigger than that
>(and my uncle lives in one A LOT smaller:). So, while Initiates aren't
>exactly common, I think they'd be getting more common as time goes on,
>and I think that there are probably enough to use for limited run-ins
>with the PCs. Here's another question: of the 3882, how many do you
>figure work for corps (including Lonestar)

Do those figures even count corporate citizens? Remember
extraterritoriality.

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 17:33:33 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Brian W Allison <ballison@*******.WAM.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: (GM) Big D Clue
In-Reply-To: <Pine.ULT.3.95.961213132542.1645B-100000@*****.wheaton.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 13 Dec 1996, Q (not from Star Trek) wrote:

> In Norse mythology, Ragnarok is basically Armageddon. A lot of things
> happen, including the slaying of the Midgard Serpent (after it lays waste
[snip]

One thing which might carry over. After Ragnarok a new race of Gods
arises. They are both more powerful and more gentle than the Norse Gods.

IMO it was the Viking way of admitting that while they would rule as
long as they could, they knew that the world would eventually be settled,
in which case the harsh people would be tossed aside and the gentle folk
would band together and be stronger as cultures than the Barbarian Hordes
ever would be.


But then, it can be said that I wasn't there. :)



Brian W. Allison

Computer Scientist Vocalist Would-be Poet Bicycler Scuba Diver
Hacker(0xca) Nerd(79) GenX(21) #include <witticism.h>
http://www.wam.umd.edu/~ballison

--- Unsolicited Commercial E-Mail is not welcome at this account ---
--- and will result in a US$500 fee per US Code Title 47 Sec 227. ---
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 17:02:52 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Faux Pas <thomas@******.INFOBAHN.COM>
Subject: Re: morph (fwd)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:20 PM 12/13/96 -0600, you wrote:
>***
>
>After some long Debates with my GM here is the modified "Chameleon" power
>(comments FASAMike???)

[snip posted version]

This is not the final version of the Body Morph power Bill and I have
discussed and is not the one we're using. What Bill posted was a reply to a
message he sent me with revisions by him. Bill, wait until you have all the
information on the body morph/chameleon power. Then I'll post to the RN
list so you know what the GM is working from.

Again, what was posted twice to this list is not how we're running the
chameleon/body morph physad power.

-Thomas Deeny
saw Tom Dowd at the 7-11 with Elvis and Janis Joplin.

"If you talk to God, you are praying; if God talks to you, you have
schizophrenia."
-Dr. Thomas Szasz
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 23:19:10 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: (GM) Big D Clue
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.961213173113.588C-100000@*******.wam.umd.edu> from
"Brian W Allison" at Dec 13, 96 05:33:33 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|
|On Fri, 13 Dec 1996, Q (not from Star Trek) wrote:
|
|> In Norse mythology, Ragnarok is basically Armageddon. A lot of things
|> happen, including the slaying of the Midgard Serpent (after it lays waste
|[snip]
|
| One thing which might carry over. After Ragnarok a new race of Gods
|arises. They are both more powerful and more gentle than the Norse Gods.

Led BY one of the Norse Gods....
Baldur rises from the dead....
(But then, he was gentle and generally good anyway.....)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 17:27:30 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Donald G Bixler <mudgb4@*XA.ECN.BGU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Friday the 13th
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19961213103557.006ac434@***> from "Faux Pas" at Dec
13,
96 10:35:57 am
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['Rattle Snake Shake"...]

> Perhaps have the medic a closeted Humanis member who doesn't mind offing a
> meta so a "pure" human can be saved... Oh yeah, this could be a good
> antagonist.


Ouch. I'd never even considered that. Could be fun to watch
them figure out the pattern of meta deaths to amazing magical healings...

Another idea I tossed to Bull, but he couldn't use becausse some
players had seen the episode is the first one. The one with the cute
little demonic porcelain doll that latche sonto the girl. Have the doll
wind up in the hands of an Otaku girl.

> -Thomas Deeny

Oops da "Merry Friday the 13th to you all" Ogre
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 23:30:16 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Friday the 13th
In-Reply-To: <199612132327.RAA16677@*****.ecn.bgu.edu> from "Donald G
Bixler"
at Dec 13, 96 05:27:30 pm
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|Oops da "Merry Friday the 13th to you all" Ogre
|

Wellll.....
There's only half an hour of it left for things to go drastically wrong...
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 15:36:11 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <dbuehrer@******.carl.org>
From: Graht <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Staging Melee Damage
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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If a Troll attacks someone with a monosword and just gets enough
successes to hit, the damage level is Medium. Even if his Str is
15. Granted the odds of the target resisting the damage are pretty
low, but still... I just think that high strength should be able to
increase the damage level of melee attacks. So, with that in mind I
came up with the following:

Strength = 1-6, no increase in damage level
Strength = 7-12, plus one damage level
Strength = 13-18, plus two damage levels
and so on...

What do you think?

-Graht

"Pick up the door."
"...Hey, Kunds!"
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 17:32:22 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Donald G Bixler <mudgb4@*XA.ECN.BGU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Friday the 13th
In-Reply-To: <32B19EE9.33BE@*****.edu> from "Justin Pinnow" at Dec 13,
96 01:22:48 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Faux Pas wrote:

["Rattle Snake Shake"...]

> Interesting theme, and the episode you saw seems like it can be used
> quite well as an SR plot...but don't have the characters fall victim to
> him...have mysterious murders be the subject, and have the PC's
> investigate....maybe to "stumble" upon it through docwagon
> eventually... :)

Well, yeah. Where's the horror in attacking the Pcs right off
the bat? I was thinking more along the lines of the dawning horror as
the shaman realized just what the price for patching up a couple of his
scratches was. Then you have the shaman-wannabe jump him when he
realizes that he's been figured out.

> Justin

Oops da "I've got the Sci-Fi Channel. Ft13th marathon!! *smirk*" Ogre
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 01:57:47 +0100
Reply-To: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.net>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Magicians
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Thu, 12 Dec 1996 08:29:16 -0500, Justin Pinnow wrote:

>Arno R. Lehmann wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 11 Dec 1996 08:39:32 -0500, Justin Pinnow wrote:
>
>> >Also, as far as the heal and treat spells are concerned, I would rule
>> >that the target of the spell be defined when cast into the lock....thus,
>> >it would most likely only heal the mage wearing the lock.
>
>> Should be the case with all spells to be sustained. And then - someone
already
>> wrote this idea - the damage level to be healed should also be pre-defined.
>> Then you get to have a spell lock "heal myself m-damage", "heal
Big
>> Al-the-troll d-damage" and so on. <little snip>

>Well, the person who wrote that was me, but I am retracting that
>statement, because the pre-chosen wound level thingie is from 1st
>edition. Thus, it no longer applies. However, the spell locked Heal
>spell is still not any more powerful than any other spell if you rule
>that the damage isn't healed until the end of the required amount of
>time has been reached.

Well, the 1st ed. point is clear. I did never look in 1st ed, but anyway, I
still like that concept. But ok, it's out of date.

In my rulebook (german version, I admit ...) it is stated, that permanent
spells have to be sustained for a certain time, before their effect gets
permanent. If the mage's concentration is broken before that, the effect
vanishes (it must have been there then) (cf. german version SRII, pg. 128). So
you should rule that the damage is healed instantly, and not after the amount
of time to reach permanentness (is this english?)

Arno

(The above mail from Justin Pinnow reached me privately, but I assume that it
was intended to go to the list)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 20:54:37 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Stun vs Regeneration
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 03:23 PM 12/10/96 -0500, you wrote:

>This may sound stupid, but I don't remember anything in the area of
>regernation referring to stun damage. But it would be stupid to be able
>knock out a vamp with a punch when you could shoot him full of holes and
>he wouldn't be hurt. And if he heals stun at the same rate, vamp mages
>must be really nasty.

Look again. I believe it specially says all damage gets healed.

>Regeneration vs Magic Loss: do shapeshifters, vamps, and other magically
>active regerating creatures loose magic when taking deadly wounds, or does
>their ability to generate decrease the chances since there body is
>resuming its original form, there would be less chance of misalignment
>between the spirit and the body.

Hmmm, never had the opportunity to have to figure that one out, as the PCs
keep shooting until it dies.

--
"360 pounds, wow, that half a season of Oprah!"
Dick Diedrieck, "Night Stand"
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 20:21:24 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Johnny Mnemonic once again (was Re: FASA and Hollywood)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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> From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
> I read the short story several years ago, and what I've seen of the movie
> is just too far removed from what I remember to be JM to me, but still
> too close to be something totally different (does that make sense?).

Sort of..You liked the character in the story too much to see how he
had been changed in the movie...Am I close?? This I can at least
understand..But I would still recommend the flick..I too have often
been dissatisfied in this manor..that is why now I wait till after
the I see the movie to read the novel..Otherwise I keep comparing the
two and it ruins the whole movie..When I read the book after I can
more easily put the movie asside in my mind and enjoy the book... :)

-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
=================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 20:21:24 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: FASA and Hollywood
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> From: Calvin Hsieh <u2172778@*******.ACSU.UNSW.EDU.AU>
> Finally, I thought everyone on ShadowRN loved this terrible film. I have to
> agree with the spaceman - I thought this was one the worst films I saw in my
> life.

Oh..No..Check out "The Silent Earth" That is the second worst film I
have ever seen..The absolute worst I cannot recall the name of as I
have a mental block..Yes it was that bad...
-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
=================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 21:27:12 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
Subject: TTFN
In-Reply-To: <199612140154.UAA20615@*******.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Its been a blast See you in January!

CZAR EGGBERT
ruler/lover/mad man
czregbrt@*********.edu
http://www.creighton.edu/~czregbrt
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 22:39:45 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Friday the 13th
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:35 AM 12/12/96 -0600, you wrote:

> One episode that could be changed into a SR adventure without
>much alteration would be the snake rattle. It's the one where a NA who
>just isn't quite up to the requirements of be a shaman becomes a doctor
>instead. He gets a hold of a rattle that will completely cure a patient
>after it kills someone else first. Perhaps if you're feeling _really_
>sadistic, have him be part of the next DocWagon team that shows up.

On a similar note, the ep with the cursed voodoo mask might work well too.

I forgot the details, but I recall there was a voodoo festival in which the
daughter of a master hoodon Jack knew was going to get initiated into
something or other. The mask contained the spirit of an evil voodon the man
drowned.

--
"360 pounds, wow, that half a season of Oprah!"
Dick Diedrieck, "Night Stand"