| From: | Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Re: World Map |
| Date: | Tue, 1 Apr 1997 18:51:46 -0800 |
>In article <3.0.32.19970401110506.0093bb90@****.com>, Max Rible
><slothman@*********.ORG> writes
>OK, that's fine, but surely their old cities and complexes still exist,
After seven thousand years? That's a long time for something that requires
having the roof stay up to stick around. Sure, dwarven construction is
good, but seven thousand years without maintenance-- especially if they
were designed at a time when you could leave up permanent spells to hold
the roof up-- makes it unlikely they'd be habitable.
>>The
>>problem is that the Trolls smart enough to organize such things are going
>>to be very rare-- a Troll with Int 4 is as common as a human with Int 6.
>By what equation are you baseing your judgement of intelligence.
I'm assuming that the distribution of Trollish intelligence is the same
as the distribution of human intelligence, after factoring for Trollish
racial mods.
> Int 6
>is a racial maximum for humans and implies _high_ intelligence, only
>taken further by Bionetic/Cybernetic enhancement, which means an Int 4
>Troll is above average human intelligence, certainly *not* indicative of
>a thick skulled moron.
Did I at some point suggest that a Troll with Int 4 is less intelligent
than a human with Int 4? I'm just pointing out that it's just as hard to
find Trolls with Int 4 as it is to find humans with Int 6.
>>One of the problems is that none of the non-elven groups are portrayed as
>>particularly *powerful*;
>I don't feel that they need to be powerful, I've had more than enough
>of "powerful" metahumans, country or otherwise. A normal, interacting
>with the rest of society and not in control of world shaking or galactic
>events nation would be really nice.
A certain degree of power is required in order to be taken seriously.
It doesn't have to be military power; it can be economic. I'd be a lot
happier if there were news of human beings complaining about being unable
to study civil engineering at universities in the Troll Kingdom of the
Black Forest, or electrical engineering in a Dwarven kingdom, or ...
>>They won't be able to get their hands on the kinds of resources it takes
>>to build a nation because it's hard for them to rise through the ranks
>>to get that kind of power base.
>You're assuming a powerful economic power base here. When the NAN was
>formed they were not economically superior to the UCAS, just more
>determined. They also had the advantage of major mojo.
The major mojo was a key factor in being able to get a soverign nation
to cede some of its land to another one. Almost all the territory of
the planet, other than Antarctica (and Greenland?) is staked out by now.
To get some for yourself, you need to give the current holder some incentive
to let you have it.
> There is
>sufficient of the old US that is apparently deserted, for the other
>metahuman races to form their own nations, and provided we're not
>running a futuristic version of Lord of The Rings, then there is no
>reason they can't reactivate factories and farmland and start to build
>an economic base.
This is assuming the NAN haven't done so already with their own people.
(Actually, a smart move for them would've been to offer citizenship to
disadvantaged metatypes to do just that while working for the NAN...
though that would also be setting themselves up for a possible secession
in the future...)
> According to the Tairngire sourcebook,
>the Elven nations have an export profit, far beyond their import or
>national debt. Meaning they are a highly profitable nation.
...
> A half dozen people
>cannot possibly amass that much money and economic power in such a short
>time, which means the elves have something nobody else does, sympathetic
>sourcebook writers? Crap.
How about a highly educated population that provides a pool of skilled
labor to fuel a new economy?
> There is no logical or reasonable
>explanation for the lack of Orc, Trol or Dwarven nations, they've had
>the same amount of time as the elves,
Time? Yes. Opportunity? No.
>>There aren't many frontiers for them to
>>go off and colonize for themselves,
>erm, sorry, yes there are. Remember, mankind (as in human) has
>concentrated in mega cities, leaving much of the old US deserted, taht
>means that huge areas of the UCAS/CAS have no population, leaving plenty
>of places where groups can congregate and gather to form a nation. (At
>least that's how I see it and have dealt with it).
I don't get that impression from reading the sourcebooks. Can you cite
anything that suggests that to you?
>>so they end up having to make niches
>>for themselves until they *can* accumulate that kind of power base. Given
>>that (other than spike babies) there aren't any Dwarfs over 46 years old,
>But that also applies to elves. There aren't any "old" elves other than
>the immortals, yet they have a massive power base, both economic and
>military.
>No fair. And not logical.
But Elves are exceptionally charismatic; of all the metatypes, they are
the closest to human. They'll have the easiest time of getting along with
humans. Humans with Elven children are a lot more likely to let them
inherit (recall the mention in the London sourcebook about the various
British noble families that suddenly had lots of "miscarriages" after
the Awakening?). It's not fair; it's a facet of human behavior, which isn't
logical.
>>they're still trying to gather their power base. The Orks and Trolls are
>>going to have proportionally fewer capable leaders.
>Are you basing this on your earlier comparison of intelligence? Or by
>some other reasoning.
On the earlier comparison of intelligence, on the parallel one of
charisma that is implicit, and the fact that most of them are going to
have trouble amassing the resources-- connections, money, and so on-- that
a human leader can.
> The Orc underground is led by a goblinsed human,
>I should think he is more than capable. Allowing for the massive
>variation in RL human intelligence, then it is a safe bet, as long as
>we're not LOTR here, that there are Orks and Trolls and Dwarves of equal
>if not better capability to lead.
I don't doubt that there are those with the capability to lead. But there
are fewer of them, with fewer chances, because of some massive inequities
in the initial conditions.
>>But give them time...
>By the time they've had their time, the Elves will have taken over the
>world, Legolas and Aragorn will once again be striding the lands, and
>we'll all have gone on to greener pastures, while the horrors dance
>around the may pole.
Unless the Elves hide behind the Great Wall of Tir Tairngire that's
mentioned in the TT sourcebook while the Horrors suddenly find that
they aren't quite ready for a world where the pool of warriors capable
of blowing them away with high-tech weaponry is drawn from the entire
population, rather than just the Adepts, and the Elves finally poke
their noses out, centuries later, in time to find that research in
technology and magic has left them in the dust.
(Personally, if I were handling the whole Horrors thing, I would build
up lots of rumors of big and nasty things, then have them go
up against the military division that finally cleaned out Bug City and
have them run away with their tails between their legs and burn their
metaplanar bridge behind them.)
--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "So, an Arisian, a Vorlon, and a knnn go into a tavern..." %%
