From:	Denzil Kruse <dkruse@***.AZ05.BULL.COM>
Subject:	Re: Watchers in astral combat
Date:	Fri, 25 Apr 1997 12:08:00 MST

>>Shouldn't watchers be fairly weak in combat, compared to other spirits of
>>the same force? I don't like the idea of a magic user conjuring up a
bunch
>>of watchers to help him in astral combat. It just doesn't seem to me what
>>watchers are for. They don't seem to have the temperment for fighting
>>unless they are defending themselves (assuming them can't run).
>
>I don't see any problem....I always treated watchers like
>dog-brains....fully-capable, just not able to hold more than one thought.
>They can fight with the best....just don't expect stylish combat, more
brute
>force (ah, but such admirable singlemindedness)
>
>Besides, the force = 1/2 successes tends to keep them from being too strong
>anyway.
>
>-=SwiftOne=-

That's true, and low force watchers aren't that strong in astral combat.
But they can add up, and since they have their separate charisma limit and
only take a complex action, they are easily available and replaceable. In
terms of They ought to do alright in a fight, but when compared to an
elemental or nature spirit of the same force, they should be at a
disadvantage.

Loki and the Digital Mage suggested limiting their threat ratings to 1, and
I think that's a good idea. I forgot about the threat ratings, since I
usually just use the pools for PC and NPC alike. Since there isn't a pool
for astral combat (except for initiates) it slipped my mind. Wow, that
makes spirits even tougher in astral combat - a free pool! <making mental
note and hoping the sticky stuff works and doesn't fall off>

The biggest advantage in astral combat is having the watchers give you
buddies in combat, giving you up to -4 to your TN's and -4 to your
opponents. But a house rule I made up or melee combat can apply here as
well: If you ignore the extra opponents, then you don't suffer from the
buddies in combat penalty, and the opponents don't get a better TN. But,
the ignored opponents do get an unopposed melee attack at you at normal TN.
This allows you to ignore the little scratchers and go for the big cheese.

Canthros said:
>Why? I see no reason the mage cannot command a group of Watchers to do
>this. And the temperament of the watcher should vary from summoner to
>summoner (perhaps even from Watcher to Watcher).

As is, I think it is a bit unbalanced. IIRC, a shaman can only summon one
spirit per domain, and mages have a difficult time summoning elementals.
The watchers are so quick and easy, and they can really add to the mage's
astral combat ability.

>>I'm thinking of halving their usual astral combat skill (usually
>>=Force?) or
>>else just giving them a 1 regardless of force. Any opinions on this?
>
>I just don't see the point. You could do this, but unless you've had a
>real problem with people abusing it, why bother?

I try to anticipate these kinds of things and head them off before they
become a problem. Besides, I might come up with this watcher horde tactic
for an NPC, and the players will quickly learn.

Denzil Kruse
d.kruse@****.com