| From: | Unknown sender |
|---|---|
| Subject: | None |
| Date: | Unknown time and date |
writes:
><snip: Random violence>
>
>LOL!
>
>Actually, natural causes. Spontaneous human
>combustion. It happens sometimes, people
>just... explode.
>
Hey, and if humans explode into flames, who can say what such a big and
magical creature as a dragon would do? :)
~Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 20:19:17 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gossamer <kajohnson@*******.TEC.WI.US>
Subject: Re: Pro's & munchies was Re: Runnersºd Tenants?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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> I think you misuderstand. In addition to learning all the
> rules, I learn a lot of GM material....it makes it more
> challenging to play your average runner (pre-Bug City)
> when I know all about Bugs, Horrors, IE's, etc. I can
> pretend I don't, but playing the whole "discovering what
> they are" bit just doesn't work well.
Oh, yes, I see your point, and I've had this same trouble.
I apologize for my misinterpretation. And there's no fix
for this other than not going into those places... I've
never been to Chicago, and, although we do see Bug
Spirits from time to time, we don't tend to play 'way out
on the edge' in our games. We are content to be Corp
raiders and trying not to get killed by Mitsuhama. I
have found in our games that after you've broken into
a Corp complex 5 times in 3 years, they tend to be not
very happy to see you again... And then you have to
run very far away. Maye I'm not ambitious enough,
but we have plenty of newyen from fragging over a
Corp, or a store owner or whatever.
So, why do I not feel the need to get bigger?
Does anyone else not get bored doing the same basic
runs... I mean there's a Renraku guard that we've
knocked out or captured 7 or 8 times. It's like the
alien abduction thing: he's getting a 6th sense of
when we're coming, but he can't stop us, so he
goes a little nuts each time. Thus far we've been
very nice to him, and we've even taken care of his
family on a couple of episodes.
So why don't I feel the need to push the envelope?
> >Me: "And then the bad guy does X."
> >NewPlayer: "but he can't do that in the rules."
> >Me: "Oh, and why not?
>
> Nope, in my game it would be: "Yeah, well, you haven't
> ever been able to do X, but this guy just did, so what are
> you going to do about it?"
After the GM/Players reach a rapport, that is exactly what
happens. And after a while, after very firm trust is
established, we don't even go through that... but it was a
conscious effort on our part to establish and maintain
that trust through much beer, soda, chips, dip, tacos,
and occasionally tequila. Oh, and we hashed out group
interpretations of the rules whie we were at it...
> Arguements are for AFTER the game.
I agree that if a real arguement happens it gets handled
after the game, but apparently, I've never been in one.
Cheers,
Gossamer
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 18:11:59 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Physads
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---Logan Black wrote:
>
> > The only way I know of for a PA to get more powers is to initiate
and
> > raise his Magic.
> >
> Thanks for all the help in this. I have one other question:
>
> In which book do I find the rules for initiates?(Or am I gonna look
> really stupid and have missed it all this time in the couple books I
> have?)
In the Grimoire, the section called The Higher Mysteries. Explains
initiation, metamagic, and so on. Also has some additional PhysAd
abilities.
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic."
- A. C. Clarke
Poisoned Elves: http://www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 19:33:30 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Dunky's death was - re: Postings to the List
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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> From: "Q (not from Star Trek)" <Scott.E.Meyer@*******.EDU>
> Doesn't anyone remember Twin Peaks anymore?
Now that you jog my memory..I do :) And I agree...
--------------------------------GRANITE "Rock Steady"
=====================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
=====================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 20:29:52 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim P Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] AAAARGH! Snow.....
On Tue, 6 May 1997 14:08:43 -0600 David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
writes:
>Spike wrote:
>|
>| You lot might not believe this, but last week the temperature was in
the
>| 70's....
>|
>| NOW... It's bloody snowing a storm out there....
>
>That's funny. Here in Denver it was snowing last week. Now it's nice
and
>warm and sunny...
Hmmm... I guess it's a matter of perspective. Here in California, I've
been bummed cause it's been in the 80's and 90's and I miss the cool,
grey days of winter where it would dip to the 60's and 70's... maybe if
we were really lucky it'd get into the 50's. Of course on the up side it
IS perfect beach weather. :)
~Tim (who's never looked out of his window and seen snow...)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 03:09:39 -0700
Reply-To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Missing Rats
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
PRIVATE: NewzJunkie
>>>>>[It's a start, it's a start. Strange to think of the Rat wanting
'ware pulled out of him when he was so hot to go chrome in the first place.
If you've seen Fact Rat, come clean. Maybe I'll be able to return the
favor down the line.]<<<<<
-- Johnny OneLine <23:55:43/05-07-58>
PRIVATE: Longhorn
>>>>>[Calling in that favor from that Big Sur thing.
+++++include: streetdoc.request.22:17:43/04-08-58
+++++include: documentation: MPCP parameters
If you scan real close, you can pick up marker residue from the
cyberdeck signature. I taught the Rat everything he knows about brewing
chips, so the signature should be recognizable -- but if you check them
against the parameters file, you'll find they don't match previous
spec. Why?
+++++include: private.message.15:02:31/04-27-58
Find out about this NewzJunkie if you can. Most importantly, if he's
connected with any organizations -- I think you know the ones I mean.
My sense of paranoia goes Ping! when I ask for a face and somebody else
offers money for it. Especially after they offer a screwy post and
mention how he "may be in real bad shape...but I don't know jack."
Smacks a bit too much of ransom.]<<<<<
-- Johnny OneLine <00:01:34/05-07Jeffrey Mach wrote:
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 21:30:31 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gweedo The Killer Pimp <yawas@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Unconcious
On Tue, 6 May 1997 18:03:00 +0000 Shane Courtrille
<hardware@*******.DATANET.AB.CA> writes:
>If a mage goes unconcious is there a risk of losing control of a
>spirit or elemental? I think I've read something about that
>somewhere... but I don't remember and I can't find anything about it.
Yeah, the Elemental has to roll a willpower (or an intellegence) test to
see if it will attack the unconcious mage. If it succeeds, it sees an
opening to become free, and goes after the downed magician with full
force. If it fails, then it just goes away, and the mage/shaman loses
it. I think that this is in SRII, or the Grimmy. I can't remember
which.
----------
The useless fact of the day is:
The word "girl" appears in the Bible only once.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 18:55:41 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Character Attachment (Don't worry Spike not that kind of
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---Caric wrote:
>
> with the death of Logan and Ook the big boys pretty much are gone.
Actually, Logan isn't dead...just M.I.A. <grin>
> Caric-the-long-dead-Dog-shaman
<The GM lights a candle>
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic."
- A. C. Clarke
Poisoned Elves: http://www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 02:03:33 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Pro's & munchies was Re: Runnersºd Tenants?
In-Reply-To: <199705060527.BAA06333@******.san.uc.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <199705060527.BAA06333@******.san.uc.edu>, NightLife
<habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU> rambled on endlessly about Pro's & munchies
was Re: Runnersºd Tenants?
>>>Why Dark Avenger I think I'm in love. ;-)
>>
>>Should I be worried? <grin>
>
>You're just saying that you little tramp. ;-)
Rubbish! After our friendly little conversations </sarcasm?> regarding
dead, dying or mutant frogs, gauntlets and Hollywood genetics, and then
you make a remark like that, and seriously think I'm not going to worry?
Really!
--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 04:25:18 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <runefo@***.uio.no>
From: Rune Fostervoll <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Organization: The University of Oslo
Subject: Re: Character Attachment (Don't worry Spike not that kind of
In-Reply-To: <199705061838.OAA07442@********.mcit.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> Hey here's a question that I would like to get some feedback on from a GM's
> perspective.
> I know that players get attached to their characters...sometimes too
> attached, but do GM's
> find themselves attached to their PC's also?
>I mean do you ever fudge
> roles because you like the
> guys character?
Well... there is some players' characters I am more reluctant to kill
than others, yes. My problem is I get attached to my NPC's too much,
I hate seeing some of them killed. Not so much it is a problem, but
enough that I feel a little sad when they go down in a blast of
gunfire.
> Just Curious.
You know what curiosity did to the cat... and that was just the
beginning of her problems.
--
"But the dread of something after death,
The undiscovered country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have,
Than fly to others that we no not of."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 04:25:18 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <runefo@***.uio.no>
From: Rune Fostervoll <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Organization: The University of Oslo
Subject: Re: Number of Houser Rules
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970507083009.26284B-100000@*******.dialix.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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> Hmmm... I can't think of many that our group uses:
>
> Every re-roll beyond the first costs one point of KP to BURN
I'm not sure everyone's noticed this.. the reroll cost in karma
increases by one at each attempt. (So the first reroll costs 1, the
second 2, the third 3.. (For a total of 6).). Anyway, my players
usually burn enough karma that large karma pools isn't a problem.
It used to be, but isn't now.
(The present team had less karma than they started with for a long
time... ).
> PCs roll availability
>
> GMs roll street etiquette (to avoid the situation of someone with S.Et 2
> ruining the whole plot and/or someone with 10 not finding out diddly)
Use the coop rule when the entire team rolls for things like
etiquette or stealth or such. (Sum of everyone's skills, split by
number of runners, add one per roller beyond the first. NONONONO not
stealth! Forget that! You do not want a larger group sneaking
easier!! :)
> Spells that affect others adversely (Combat, Damaging Manips, some
> control Manips) are based on Force drain, not Force/2
This seems a little harsh.. this depends a bit on the optional rules
used in combat. I'd suggest.. If you use layered armor and such,
spells become more dangerous than firearms, and a F instead of F/2
roll makes sense. But if not, spells are hardly more dangerous than a
grenade launcher or assault rifle, more on the scale of pistols.
> Full Spectrum Immunity only gives you double body dice to resist stuff
> like Neurostun, instead of complete immunity.
If there's something that is supposed to give you complete immunity,
it sounds like it is not from an official sourcebook... even the best
stuff I've seen only reduce the force a little or add a few dice, so
I totally agree here.
> I'm sure there are others, but I just can't think of them ATM.
One I used for a while was that the spell's force limited the number
of magic pool dice that could be added to it, rather than the
caster's magic rating. This is more in line with the way pools are
used in other cases, (Control pool and combat pool, at least.) where
you cannot more than double the number of dice rolled through pools.
This would make most spells more useful at a medium to high force.
But then I realized it was to penalize cyberware using mages, and it
made more sense. I still think a compromise might be an idea, though.
> Lady Jestyr
Rune Fostervoll (BTW, I tend to get questions wether it is my real
name.. it is. Also, translated to old norse, it means something like
'secret/magic [of] the hidden lake'. Ok?)
--
"But the dread of something after death,
The undiscovered country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have,
Than fly to others that we no not of."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 02:34:00 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Pro's & munchies was Re: Runnersºd Tenants?
In-Reply-To: <19970506045738967.AAA225@********.gj.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <19970506045738967.AAA225@********.gj.net>, GRANITE
<granite@**.net> rambled on endlessly about Pro's & munchies was Re:
Runnersºd Tenants?
>> From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
>> I'm a rare type of person Granite :)
>
>I think we all know that.... :)
Hmmm... Yeah.
>Ahh...For a moment I thought that perhaps you had gone soft on us....
> ;)
Me, go soft. Nah, just being polite :) (ish)
>> The ease with which GMs can screw players and kill, main or simply
>> destroy is scary.
>
>Too true..I perfer to screw with their heads rather than their
>characters..
This is something that becomes difficult. A player has no knowledge
whatsoever of the situation they are in, they are working completely
blind in whatever scenario is being played, even if familiar with a
scenario, it is possible to change small subtle things that change it
completely from what it was. However, even the simplest things, that
are glaringly obvious to the GM, and written in glowing neon above the
gaming table can be missed by the players. Simple clues like "the
documents are on the desk," are amusingly ignored, as they decide that's
too obvious, and tear the office to shreds looking for the papers
they're after. There have been so many occassions when my players have
considered ideas far more devious than anything I've had planned for
them, and I've felt almost obligated to reward them with something for
all their effort.
Players are wonderful creatures, they add so much amusement to the game
<g>
>I know I get quite attached to the characters I
>create..Lots of time, effort, and thought goes into them..Some GMs
>forget this...
Can't comment here, I've not played in quite some time, so I don't have
any characters I'm attached to. I do however, have a _very_ old stable
of dead characters - about 175 last count. :)
>> could probably mention a few things that have almost reduced her to a
>> screaming fit,
>
>LOL...Er..sorry..I am pretty sure I can relate...
Yeah, probably, especially after that wonderful outline you posted to
me. :)
>> ....but rules lawyers and blant argumentative prats only destroy the game.
>
>And IMNSHO should straighten up or lose thier place at the gaming
>table..
This is where life usually gets difficult. These creatures are normally
attached in some way, either to another gamer, a friend or are a
relative, they seem to feel that because their is some sort of
relationship involved, they can abuse things even more. Creting a
nightmarish situation for the GM where they are at risk of causing great
upset by enforcing logic. I'm a bit more militant in that respect, and
will take the guilty player to task, regardless of consequences, but I
can see how others get very nervous about laying down laws of behaviour.
In this sort of situation it's a bit nerve wracking to risk losing a
friend as a result of stupid gaming attitude.
>Not normally..I was speaking more of way to revitalise a group that
>has lost their edge..a way of returning the sphincter factor to its
>proper levels...
Other than asking them to sit back while you plug their chairs in, you
mean?
>> Another thing that I've used to great effect is the GM "smirk".
>
>That is an excellent point..and one we haven't really talked about in
>a long time....Little stuff like a simple raised eyebrow after a
>player does something that should seem normal..
The dreaded eyebrow, oh that's a nice one. I've had players in absolute
fits of panic with that little move, even more so when it's attached to
a half smirk and a "look".
>or rubbing your hands
>together like you are about to run them through a pot of gold...
This doesn't have any effect on the guys at the club, the damn place is
so cold, that most people do it to keep warm :) even in summer. One
thing that I've found very useful is a little trick I pull regularly on
my players when using a module, and that is to close it. They have
arrived at the conclusion now that the only time they're getting
something right, is when I open the module and check a few pages, the
rest of the time they're panicking trying to figure out where they went
wrong, and what they've missed. I do tend to use it quite a bit in my
games, running much of it "off the cuff" so to speak, but it has a
startling effect on the players when I actually open the module. Sweat
is wiped from foreheads, notebooks and scribblepads are put down, and
they all relax. Then I close it again... :)
Ah, power, it's so addictive <g>
>course..but if this is happening them you have a totally different
>problem...
Only two that I can think of. a) the Gm is one _booooring_ person, or
b) the game has lasted beyond the 72 hours most are capable of. I
remember one mammoth session that went on for four days, over a
christmas a few years back, beer, pretzels, pizza and gallons of
coffee.. I think we all collapsed for 24 hours after that. :) It was
fun though. All based around Santa Claus, a polo mint and a dwarf clan.
:)
>>......There is
>> so much possibility for character assassination that it's ridiculous to
>> even consider a being a "mean" GM.
>
>There is a diferance..a "Mean" GM is an arse..an "Evil"
GM..Well..it
>is what most aspire to..and a few of us are... [Evil G]
Ah, c'mon Granite, the "Evil" Gm is a myth perpetrated by Gms in general
to keep players paranoid. Yes there are a few, who revel in the
destruction of PC's, both property and physically, but others just like
to be thought of as such. I have a nasty habit of applying vast amounts
of pressure to PCs, from their peers, media, security and "other"
sources. But I don't remember doing an awful lot to them. They've been
chased from one side of the world to the other in a variety of
scenarios, but in four years only six characters have died, the rest
have been retired.
Mind you, having said that, the players I've had for the last few years,
have worked very hard with their characters to work out nicely detailed
backgrounds, during creation, and I have a wonderful time incorporating
their lives into the game world, and working the consequences and
benefits for them. It's a great feeling of satisfaction when a player
is proud of their character because they meld with the game world and
seem a part of it. Doormen, that greet them by name, and are friendly,
maitre'd that has a table reserved for them whenever they turn up, a
beat cop who's on nodding acquaintance, little things, that seem to mean
a great deal to the players.
>But you know..it is much worse to have a bad GM than it is to have a
>bad player...As a bad GM makes everyone miserable all of the
>time..and a bad player..well..can be run off...Usually the GM is the
>dude with all of the books...making dealing with him/her a bit more
>difficult..
Yes and no. A bad GM is less likely to get players, but GMs are more
likely to get bad players. So in a way the statement doesn't work, but
I agree, bad GMs make everyone miserable. Not least of which is another
Gm sitting at another table having to listen to it. :(
>> I've met quite a few of both so I know
>> they exist,....
>
>And not to change the subject..but..I have met both as well..adn the
>greatest examples of each I met at GenCon..
Never been to one. I've often considered the possibility, but I've
always found better uses for my money. :)
>moment..I can't wait till Aug...
Tough, you're going to have to wait aren't you. ;)
>> My opinion is mine, and mine alone. It is not intended as a flame or as
>> an attitude of right and wrong, it is and always will be, simply *my*
>> _opinion_ :)
>
>You should know by now I am not going to take your comments
>personally...
You aren't but others do. Not many, most people are aware of my
"opinions", many more know that I'm an opinionated vociferous nitwit who
will waffle incessantly on and on and on...
>And besides there are those who share your opinions..if
>there weren't this list wouldn't be her..now would it...
The comment is something you'll see quite often on the list. Especially
after a longish rant, for the simple reason, it's often very easy, and
I've done it myself, to lose the fact that the person you are
reading/answering isn't having a screeching fit at everybody in general.
The little paragraph is just a reminder to the new people on the list
who don't know me as well as some, that my opinion is not to be taken as
god's own truth, it's just me rambling. :)
And we do get through some people these days, newbies come and go faster
than the seasons. Speaking of which, what is going on? It's May, and
we've got freezing temperatures, snow and sleet along with a potential
drought situation, over here in the UK, bloody wierd if you ask me.
I wonder if the Americans on the list fancy posting some of that flood
water over to the UK to top up our reservoirs <grin>.
--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 02:59:30 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: The (almost) recent death of (almost) Pres. Dunkelzahn
In-Reply-To: <19970506.185636.19887.8.lobo1@****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <19970506.185636.19887.8.lobo1@****.com>, L Canthros
<lobo1@****.COM> rambled on endlessly about The (almost) recent death of
(almost) Pres. Dunkelzahn
>On Tue, 6 May 1997 02:42:54 +0100 Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
>writes:
>>immortal elf fan, hence so much of SR went that way during his
>>stewardship, something that some, myself included, disagree _very_
>
>Including the _current_ SR Line Developer (I've been here since August,
>so I didn't miss that:)
Thankfully, Mike seems to have the same views on IE that I do, he hates
them passionately, so I'm hoping that in some later supplement he'll
have the whole damn lot killed off. <g> Just elave the we're as human
as the rest, normal elves, and steer away from this horrible Tolkien
syndrome that surrounds them at the moment.
>a new outbreak of VITAS), the next UCAS election is slated for 2060,
>Matrix Monocle (whatever it is) is due out by that Jan. I suppose that
>could all be worked into a world-shaking Horror-that-ate-Seattle story,
>It could also be worked into a world-shaking non-Horror/IE-story. Which
>I'd much prefer and see as the most likely possibility.
Agreed. There are more than enough natural, paranormal, paranatural and
despotic problems running around that could have a major restructuring
influence on the SR world, without the unwanted and premature
introduction of a horrors plague, which would only end up turning the
game into a simplified version of Rifts.
>>massive crossovers between SR and Earthdawn occur, I for one will cease
>>playing the game, my players have already announced their intention of
>>ignoring any material that follows this line.
>
>I'd much rather that ED and SR remain linked as they are-in mostly vague
>and ambiguous statements and coincidinces.
Those links already exist, the most obvious is the Bottled Demon module
and a few subtle links elsewhere, bad enough, but everything has an
ancient history. The time line for SR and ED has been slightly screwed,
with a little more careful thought, it could have been worked into our
"known" history a bit better, but hell, it's only a matter of tweeking
numbers. But I still would be much happier knowing that ED is part of a
seperate game universe altogether. I can't have it, because the links
are too well established, but I'm dammed if I'll accept any further
links peacefully. :)
>couldn't truly deal with the Enemy last time, why in the name of God
>should they be able to now? In any case, Apocalypse I can deal with. The
>IE as the saviors of the world, I just don't get it.
Again, agreed. A shattering quake dropping half of California into the
ocean, is osmething that is expected, and was in fact predicted by the
Mayan calendar, including volcanic eruptions and a number of other nasty
"mundane" events. The increased flooding and drought they predicted
we're already seeing, and there's only 15 years to go before their
calendar is proved right or wrong, so we're building up to it.
Shadowrun has been delayed for a world shattering event of these
proportions, not counting VITAS and UGE.
>>attempts to bring the two games and the two worlds together anymore than
>>has already occured, will receive vicious, loud and lengthy opposition
>>from myself, and possibly others.
>
>Agreed. Enough is enough. I don't mind the idea, however, so long as it
>remains something that sits in the background.
And the further in the background Mike stuffs it, the more I'll like him
- not that that's likely to influence him any, but...
>By the making the SR-is-ED
>thing the main idea behind the game, you might as well drop the one and
>keep the other, because you no longer have two games.
Exactly my problem, the next thing you know, some twit in Battletech
will discover dragons, and Mechs will be outclassed by the resurgence of
magic. I don't think so!!!
>>because a horror killed him, but because the involvement or Earthdawn
>>creatures, system and background is unavoidable, pre-determined and
>>unacceptable.
>
>I'd be more inclined to say that, until it's confirmed one way or the
>other, the Big D ain't dead.
Well, yeah, you do have a point, there's no confirmation that he's dead,
and we all know that Dunky had sufficient power and was devious enough
of mind to pull something like this off. But I have a suspicion that
Dunklezahn got a little out of hand. The classic Shadowrun comment is
"Never cut a deal with a dragon," Then the fans of Shadowrun developed
this strange attraction and affinity for the Big D, and voted the thing
into a presidential office, he shouldn't have been able to hold.
Ooopsy. A momentary panic at FASA, and a desperate attempt to tie it
into something big, and they "killed" Dunk. Even giving away his ashes
and an occassional eyeball at one of the cons (ISTR). If he's not dead,
Mike's going to have to do some fast talking to explain it, if Dunk is
dead, Mike's going to have to do some hard thinking to explain it.
Either way, the poor guy is caught between a rock and a not very nice
place.
>As for Horror involvement, could be, could
>be the IE, could be the Azzies, could be almost anyone with the right
>amount of magical ability.
Azzies is to passe, and the IE is to hated. Might just as well say they
are the original Martians, and that the HG Wells story is part of
Earth's history, and get over it that way. The horrors are too Cthulhu
based to work well in the existing Shadowrun material and world concept,
the mindset of modern man would attempt to battle the things with
mundane weapons, entire nations would be obliterated in their own
eagerness to defend themselves, they can't logically work in SR. ED is
geared towards dealing with them in a fantasy setting. I know people
have, and I've done it myself, incorporated Cthulhu or the "Alternative"
Cyberpunk systems into occassional games, adding horro as well as
Cyber/fantasy to the game, but there is a huge limit to how much SR can
withstand before it ceases to be Shadowrun. The only game system that
I've found melds nicely with Shadowrun, is Dark Conspiracy, using an
alien race as the opponents rather than Cthuloids, though with a similar
theme. Vampires, werewolves, zombies, all the familiar things of SR are
incorporated into it, and great if you want a horror based game, but I
was under the impression that SR was Cyberpunk based, with a large
smattering of pure fantasy not horror fantasy.
>But, I still think he faked his death, even
>have a theory as to why, but it would involve the introduction of
>Horrors, so I think I can safely rule it out.
I should think that every single person on this list could come up with
a theory as to why his "death" occured, and no one of them would be
identical, but then, we can speculate about it for years until Mike
finally decides what the case really is. Depending of course, on how
long he wears the mantle of DLOH, after all, he might get fed up with it
and move on to other pastures. :(
>In any case, I'd say that you're safe as far as Horrors in Sr goes. With
>Mike as the Line Developer, I don't see too much happening in that
>direction.
Provided he remains in that position, you are probably right,
unfortunately FASA is a corporate concern like other game companies, and
people are promoted, transferred, laid off, it's impossible to predict
how long Mike will keep the game clean, before some other oik tries to
destroy it again.
--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 21:50:32 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Q (not from Star Trek)" <Scott.E.Meyer@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Pro's & munchies was Re: Runnersºd Tenants?
In-Reply-To: <9Y0haIAIw9bzEw7$@*******.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 7 May 1997, Avenger wrote:
[snip]
Speaking of which, what is going on? It's May, and
> we've got freezing temperatures, snow and sleet along with a potential
> drought situation, over here in the UK, bloody wierd if you ask me.
>
Well, I think we can rule out global warming :)
-Q
---------------------------------------
I dislike Windows95 for the same reason people dislike New Coke
It tastes disgustingly like Pepsi.
Scott "Q" Meyer
Scott.E.Meyer@*******.edu
http://johnh.wheaton.edu/~smeyer
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 19:54:19 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Missing Rats
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---Matb wrote:
>
> PRIVATE: NewzJunkie
> >>>>>[It's a start, it's a start. Strange to think of the Rat
wanting 'ware pulled out of him when he was so hot to go chrome in the
first place.
>
> If you've seen Fact Rat, come clean. Maybe I'll be able to return
the
> favor down the line.]<<<<<
> -- Johnny OneLine <23:55:43/05-07-58>
<snip>
Huh? Anyone else understand what this was all about?
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic."
- A. C. Clarke
Poisoned Elves: http://www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 21:14:46 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Missing Rats
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 19:54 5/6/97 -0700, Loki wrote:
>---Matb wrote:
>>
>> PRIVATE: NewzJunkie
>> >>>>>[Snipped]<<<<<
>> -- Johnny OneLine <23:55:43/05-07-58>
>
><snip>
>
>Huh? Anyone else understand what this was all about?
Misdirected ShadowTK post, I believe :)
-Adam
--
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org -- fro@***.ab.ca
"Do you know how many times I have said something that ends up in
someone's .sig?" -Dvixen, a phone call that turned out to be bloody cheap.
-
"Leading by example" in Target:UCAS
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 00:28:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Character Attachment (Don't worry Spike not that kind
ofattachment)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I have a secreat to tell you all.
Despite me gleefully enjoyed reputation as an Evil GM, in my entire GMing
career of ... geez, 17 years! I can count the number of PC's I have killed
on one hand.
And inbreeding aside, that's less than 6. :-)
I DO get attached to the PC's I run for, especially when they are played
well.
There's a certain Orc Decker around here somewhere who certainly has had a
favor from the "Hand of God" a time or two, but there have also been times
that I decided that Force 30 Wasp Queen really didn't just do a rule of
ones, and fudged against him as well.
It's like someone else said, PC's should die because it's their time to go,
not because they own crappy dice.
> | "We could find a speck of dust and scribble down our life stories ..."
>
> "We could both wear cowboy hats and pretend that we can speak Italian..."
Glad to see someone else caught the reference! :-)
Fizzy, fuzzy, big and buzzy!
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"We could find a speck of dust and scribble down our life stories ..."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 00:55:05 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lorden <westln@***.EDU>
Subject: Astral Aura, How Far from the Body?
In-Reply-To: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU> "Re: Number of House
Rules"
(May 6, 23:33)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
After following the Astral sight thread for a few days, it left
me with a question. How far does the aura of a person extend
beyond his body? I have two lines of thought on this.
Given that their are 4 types of people.
A) People with cyber and/or Bioware
B) Normals
C) Adepts
D) Mages
Either the aura extends the same distance for all types of
people, and that it's the colour or quality of the aura that is
different for each type of person.
My second line of thought is that the aura extends further from
your body as you move from type A to D. There would still be a
quality difference in the auras.
Both lines of thought leave the question as to how far the aura
extends open. I see this coming up in my group as a way to spot
someone just arround a corner or on the aother side of a door
much like you might spot someone with thermo. I'm curious to see
what others have decided on this.
--
Nigel westln@***.edu
AKA C. Yossarrian, UPAC Projectionist
AKA Lorden
Speaking for myself, and no one else.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 23:13:46 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Productions
Subject: Re: Missing Rats
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
> Misdirected ShadowTK post, I believe :)
Yup..has to be..note the antiquated formatting style...
--------------------------------GRANITE "Rock Steady"
=====================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
=====================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 23:40:03 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Productions
Subject: Re: Pro's & munchies was Re: Runnersºd Tenants?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
> Me, go soft. Nah, just being polite :) (ish)
Are you well??? ;)
> Players are wonderful creatures, they add so much amusement to the game
> <g>
Yes..and where would we be without them?? Wait a minute..I think I am
living the answer to that one... :(
> Can't comment here, I've not played in quite some time, so I don't have
> any characters I'm attached to.
But you have created NPCs and they count too...
> Yeah, probably, especially after that wonderful outline you posted to
> me. :)
[Smile]
> >And IMNSHO should straighten up or lose thier place at the gaming
> >table..
> This is where life usually gets difficult.
True...
>These creatures are normally attached in some way, ......
Been there and done that..One of my players wife was in..while not a
lawyer..she had an infant to take care of...[Before anybody goes off
it wasn't mine so I really didn't care who took care if it..that was
their deal]...We tried a couple of times to allow the infant
around..but it was WAY too big of a distraction..And unfortunately I
had to bar the baby from the gaming area...Wasn't easy..but Something
had to be done or I would have had a mutiny...
>...... but I
> can see how others get very nervous about laying down laws of behaviour.
I never quite understood this...In my experiance these people were
guests in my home [that put things in my court] and there were things
that simply would not be tolerated in my home..I had one friend Who
did not allow cheese in his home [religion based rule] so we accepted
this and either ordered something other than pizza [in the US all
pizza has cheese] or we went elsewhere to eat...I have one friend who
was just starting to get into the marshall arts..and liked to kick
alot..my wife freaked..I had to lay down the law..He was
gracious..[now he is a Black belt I believe]..Most folks don't
realise they are being an ass..and when it is explained to them
things change..if they don't...well...
> Other than asking them to sit back while you plug their chairs in, you
> mean?
Well..when you do that every week..They kinda get used to it...Some
even start to like it.... ;) They drool alot but they like it...
> Ah, power, it's so addictive <g>
Better than anything..well almost anything..I can think of ;)
> Yes and no. A bad GM is less likely to get players,......
That all depends..The place most bad GMs get players is
conventions...By the time you find out it is too late..all the other
events have started...I have been known to walk out on a game or 2
though..I don't like being rude to the GM but when they misrepresent
their game..Well I don't have to take it...So I have left them
staring with thier mouths open..as I said "No thanks..Not even
close..See ya.."
> >moment..I can't wait till Aug...
> Tough, you're going to have to wait aren't you. ;)
D@**..I was hoping you would have a temporal accelerator hidden away
somewhere...
> The little paragraph is just a reminder to the new people on the list
> who don't know me as well as some,
Oh..yea..I forgot about them...They have blended fairly well..
> Speaking of which, what is going on? It's May, and
> we've got freezing temperatures, snow and sleet along with a potential
> drought situation, over here in the UK, bloody wierd if you ask me.
It was hot here today..But I saw snow falling past the Grand Mesa..So
I couldn't answer that one...
--------------------------------GRANITE "Rock Steady"
=====================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
=====================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 23:47:34 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Productions
Subject: Re: Astral Aura, How Far from the Body?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> From: Lorden <westln@***.EDU>
> Both lines of thought leave the question as to how far the aura
> extends open.
Well how about this answer..Remember all those painting of Saints and
Angels and such..well...Remember also the halo of energy raidiating
from around their heads..well about that far...Or..have you heard
about karillian [sp] photography..about that far...which means your
variable statement would be closer to the way it is..And for a quick
look at what yours would look like..have you one of those "Eye of the
Storm" plasma balls??? [do you know what I'm talking about??] And
touch it..See the flickering aura around where you are touching
it...well that would be how far yours would extend...
Any of these work..Take your pick..of course you could say it does
not extend beyond your astral body..which can take on differing
shapes...
--------------------------------GRANITE "Rock Steady"
=====================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
=====================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 09:05:19 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: Re: Paranormals
In-Reply-To: <199705061932.MAA06091@****.rocketmail.com>
> That's how I've been playing hardened armor.
>
> ===
>
> @>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Hmm... I don't think thats the right way in any case. You use this
rule on military grade armor (which is hardened armor), too?
Or just on vehicles and structures?
ss
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 09:16:06 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: APDS and Hardened Armor
In-Reply-To: <m0wOhcJ-0004wbC@*******.Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
This one went to me instead of the list. Since I guess if Sascha
wanted to know something from me (slim chance), he would ask me in
german, I'll forward it to the list....
> Hoi!
>
> As I discussed myself into confusion yesterday, I need to know: How
> does APDS ammo work on hardened armor?
>
> Rules I found so far:
> * SRII, p. 277: "Vehicle armor reduces the the Power of APDS ammo by
> one-half its rating(round down) and reduces the Damage Level by one
> level."
>
> * FIRING THROUGH: SRII, p. 98: "If, however, the Barrier Rating exceeds
> the Power of the attack, the attack cannot penetrate and is stopped
> cold."
>
> * Vehicle Armor/Hard Armor: SRII, p. 108: "Weapons use the same Damage
> Codes against vehicles (hard targets) as they do against other
> characters (soft targets), but with some differences and restrictions."
>
> * SRII, p. 108: "In attacks against vehicles /with/ vehicle armor, the
> armor acts as a Barrier Rating. That is, if the attacking weapon does
> not exceed the rating of the vehicle armor, it will not penetrate."
>
> What I do need to know -
> 1) Is "hardened armor" the same as vehicle armor?
>
> 2) if so, does it still act as barrier as per p.108, when resisting
> versus APDS armor SSC, SRII, p. 277)?
>
> 3) if yes, does that calculate with the reduced Power Level or the
> original? If not, it would only be stopped if (0.5 * Armor) > Power,
> right?
>
> and, of course... do you have page references? *grin*
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 10:22:09 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dunky's death was - re: Postings to the List
In-Reply-To: <J8wsTlAbPpbzEwfa@*******.demon.co.uk> from "Avenger" at May
6,
97 03:13:47 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|Bob the Squooshy ball? Or Bob Holness (sorry Brit joke)
"I'll have a pee please Bob....."
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 10:23:39 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dunky's death was - re: Postings to the List
In-Reply-To: <Pine.ULT.3.95.970506200343.22886B-100000@*****.wheaton.edu> from
"Q" at May 6, 97 08:04:33 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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|Doesn't anyone remember Twin Peaks anymore?
It's repeating on Channel 5 at the moment...
(Didn't watch it the first time though, and not gonna watch in now....)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 10:26:58 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: The (almost) recent death of (almost) Pres. Dunkelzahn
In-Reply-To: <19970508.173349.13311.4.z-i-m@****.com> from "Tim P Cooper"
at
May 6, 97 08:29:52 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|>Actually, natural causes. Spontaneous human
|>combustion. It happens sometimes, people
|>just... explode.
|>
|
|Hey, and if humans explode into flames, who can say what such a big and
|magical creature as a dragon would do? :)
Spontaneous matter-antimatter anihalation?(totally spelled wrong, but tuff)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 10:29:42 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Pro's & munchies was Re: Runnersºd Tenants?
In-Reply-To: <dI$puGAlT9bzEwe7@*******.demon.co.uk> from "Avenger" at May
7,
97 02:03:33 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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|>>>Why Dark Avenger I think I'm in love. ;-)
|>>
|>>Should I be worried? <grin>
|>
|>You're just saying that you little tramp. ;-)
|
|Rubbish! After our friendly little conversations </sarcasm?> regarding
|dead, dying or mutant frogs, gauntlets and Hollywood genetics, and then
|you make a remark like that, and seriously think I'm not going to worry?
|Really!
CAT FIGHT!!!
CAT FIGHT!!!!!
<EVIL GRIN>
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 06:00:42 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Missing Rats
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:54 PM 5/6/97 -0700, Loki wrote these timeless words:
>---Matb wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>Huh? Anyone else understand what this was all about?
>
Misdirected mail from ShadowTK, I believe...
Bull
--
Now the Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
NEW HOME PAGE!: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
"The best Ork Decker you never met"
-Me, in the upcoming "Target: UCAS" Shadowrun Sourcebook!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 12:08:43 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Astral Aura, How Far from the Body?
In-Reply-To: <9705070055.ZM36878@********.its.rpi.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 7 May 1997, Lorden wrote:
> me with a question. How far does the aura of a person extend
> beyond his body? I have two lines of thought on this.
About 6 inches accordingto either SRII or Grimoire (I can't remember
which). Its when they explaining why you can still cast spells at a guy in
full military armour. ANd yes this does allow teh aura to extend slightly
around corners (although the same book says that this isn't enough to
casta spell at).
The Digital Mage aka Grant Erswell - mn3rge@****.ac.uk
"Sadder still to watch it die, than never to have known it"
-Rush, Losing It
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 13:25:31 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Number of Houser Rules
In-Reply-To: <199705061225.IAA12958@****.abts.net>
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Shaun Sides said on 8:25/ 6 May 97...
> > > Ambidexterity does not exist, and two handed shooting is not permitted.
> >
> > Those aren't house rules, they're how-to-fuck-over-the-players
> > rules...
>
> I think his stand on ambidexterity in SR is valid.
I quoted one line too many, since I share Tinner's view on ambidexterity.
However, I do allow two-handed shooting -- you just won't hit anything, as
this example shows:
One Uzi in each hand, firing a burst from each, with a Strength of 4
(i.e. no recoil compensation at all) that means you get a TN of 4 (base),
+2 (using a weapon in each hand), +6 (recoil) x2 (SMG in one hand, house
rule) = 18. Good luck...
Throwing in a gas vent 3 on each weapon would reduce that to a 6, yes, but
in that case the NPCs will come similarly equipped :)
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
You've got to go there and find it, my friend.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 13:25:31 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: APDS and Hardened Armor
In-Reply-To: <m0wOhcJ-0004wbC@*******.Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
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Sascha Pabst said on 12:36/ 6 May 97...
> As I discussed myself into confusion yesterday, I need to know: How
> does APDS ammo work on hardened armor?
That's a really confusing issue... I had a big discussion about barriers
and hardened armor through private email last summer, that got abrubtly
cut short for no apparent reason before we'd worked out all the details...
I'll see what I can remember from that.
> Rules I found so far:
> * SRII, p. 277: "Vehicle armor reduces the the Power of APDS ammo by
> one-half its rating(round down) and reduces the Damage Level by one
> level."
Check. I've always assumed "its rating" refers to the vehicle armor's
rating, not the Power Level of the APDS round -- the latter makes little
sense, because it would mean a vehicle with rating 1 armor would be
equally well protected from APDS as a vehicle with rating 20 armor.
> * FIRING THROUGH: SRII, p. 98: "If, however, the Barrier Rating exceeds
> the Power of the attack, the attack cannot penetrate and is stopped
> cold."
Check.
> * Vehicle Armor/Hard Armor: SRII, p. 108: "Weapons use the same Damage
> Codes against vehicles (hard targets) as they do against other
> characters (soft targets), but with some differences and restrictions."
>
> * SRII, p. 108: "In attacks against vehicles /with/ vehicle armor, the
> armor acts as a Barrier Rating. That is, if the attacking weapon does
> not exceed the rating of the vehicle armor, it will not penetrate."
One of the questions we came up with was whether armor is treated like a
barrier in _every_ situation, or only for determining whether the round
bounces or not. For example, do holes get blown in the armor is the round
penetrates, like for barriers?
> What I do need to know -
> 1) Is "hardened armor" the same as vehicle armor?
SRII page 218: "Creatures with hardened armor have an exoskeleton
possessing the same qualities as vehicle armor." I say that means that the
exact same rules apply to firing at a critter with hardened armor (like a
juggernaut) as to firing at an armored vehicle -- the rounds bounce off if
their Power is less than the armor rating, and the critter gets half the
armor rating in extra dice to resist.
One thing here is that, if you rule vehicle armor can have big holes shot
into it, this shouldn't apply to critter armor -- having a 2-meter hole in
an animal's side would be a bit weird IMHO.
> 2) if so, does it still act as barrier as per p.108, when resisting
> versus APDS armor SSC, SRII, p. 277)?
Yes, IMO.
> 3) if yes, does that calculate with the reduced Power Level or the
> original? If not, it would only be stopped if (0.5 * Armor) > Power,
> right?
That's what I'd go for. With your Uzi vs. juggernaut example, it would
be stopped if the Uzi fires regular rounds, but with APDS it goes through.
> and, of course... do you have page references? *grin*
I'll have to work on that :)
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
You've got to go there and find it, my friend.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 13:25:32 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Plastic Warriors For Mac?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.95.970506164257.5656B-100000@*********.Colorado.EDU>
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Fearless Leader said on 16:45/ 6 May 97...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Mark, someone's after your list job! :)
> Is there a site that has a copy of Plastic Warriors and stuff in a more
> Mac friendly form? All I can find are copies in Word for Windows 6.0
> format and my machine refuses to have anything to do with them. .pdf
> format would be good.
Not to my knowledge; I wish I had the room to put up additional copies on
my page, but it's just about full :/ (I believe that I exceed my disk
quota if I get a lot of mail...).
However, I have been thinking of saving the files in RTF format and
replacing the Word files on my page with those. This would enable just
about anyone with a word processor to view the files, regardless of
whether they use Windows or a Mac, and I believe some Unix programs can
use them too.
As for PDF, I don't have Adobe Acrobat so I can't create them.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
You've got to go there and find it, my friend.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 13:25:31 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Number of Houser Rules
In-Reply-To: <199705061309.HAA12101@******>
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David Buehrer said on 7:09/ 6 May 97...
> | Those aren't house rules, they're how-to-fuck-over-the-players rules...
>
> If it was anyone but Tinner and Co. I would agree. However, his
> players seem to love his game, so he's doing something right :) You
> gotta admit, numbers 1, 2, and 4 must really make his players think
> things out. His game is not a "guns blazing" one.
I didn't get that impression, no... Still, I'd advise GMs to think
things through very well before introducing these house rules.
> | Tasers can cause extra damage to cyberware.
>
> One to add to my list.
<plug>It's in Tech Specs, downloadable from my page.</plug>
> | The Ambidexterity rules from FoF are not used because they're way too
> | complicated.
>
> Ditto. Unfortunately I can't remember what I do in place of them.
> I'm eventually going to post them to my web page, so check there in
> about a month.
I don't use them at all. Ambidexterity feels too much like an FRPG thing
to me, since I've never met anyone IRL who could show me true
ambidexterity...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
You've got to go there and find it, my friend.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 13:25:32 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Plastic Warriors For Mac?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970506170520.006cd854@****.lis.ab.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Adam J said on 17:05/ 6 May 97...
[Plastic Warriors in PDF]
> I've been meaning to do this for awhile. Its one of my current projects,
> along with a few billion other things. I'll start on one of the smaller
> ones today. Pending Gurths approval..I think he said I was allowed to do
> this, but I've forgotten.. Gurth? :)
Yes, I did say you could convert them to PDF, and you replied you had a
lot of other things to convert first :) Just one thing: before you put
them up on any web page, I'd like to see a copy -- quality control, you
know :)
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
You've got to go there and find it, my friend.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 13:25:31 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Paranormals
In-Reply-To: <199705061950.NAA19393@******>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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David Buehrer said on 13:50/ 6 May 97...
> How about this one. It says in SRII that the vehicle armor values from SRI
> and RBB should be tripled. Do the same for critter hardened armor from
> SRI and PAoNA. Now try to take down a juggernaut.
Good idea, except that SRI, and therefore PAoNA, didn't _have_ hardened
armor -- it was introduced in SRII, and the sourcebook updates section
gives hardened armor ratings for all the PAoNA critters that should have
it. Tripling it isn't necessary.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
You've got to go there and find it, my friend.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 13:25:31 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Paranormals
In-Reply-To: <1A2435071C@********.uibk.ac.at>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Simon T. Sailer said on 20:18/ 6 May 97...
> same with combat drugs... What reason could anybody have to
> feed Jazz to Piasmas?
It's cheaper and less dangerous than cybering them? Animals suffer from
what, for want of a better term, I'll call cyberpsychosis (see page 220 of
SRII) so feeding guard animals a few combat drugs would be safer to the
corp that uses them.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
You've got to go there and find it, my friend.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 13:25:31 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Unconcious
In-Reply-To: <199705070003.SAA21943@*******.datanet.ab.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Shane Courtrille said on 18:03/ 6 May 97...
> If a mage goes unconcious is there a risk of losing control of a
> spirit or elemental? I think I've read something about that
> somewhere... but I don't remember and I can't find anything about it.
This rule applies only to allies, see page 72 of the Grimoire -- an ally
whose Force exceeds the magician's Charisma may attempt to go free
whenever the magician is unconscious from wounds, fatigue, Drain, etc.
Otherwise, it may only try this when the magician is dying (has physical
overflow).
Evil GMs take note: sleeping could be interpreted as unconsciousness...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
You've got to go there and find it, my friend.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 13:25:32 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Number of Houser Rules
In-Reply-To: <199705070229.EAA07998@***.uio.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Rune Fostervoll said on 4:25/ 7 May 97...
> > Every re-roll beyond the first costs one point of KP to BURN
> I'm not sure everyone's noticed this.. the reroll cost in karma
> increases by one at each attempt. (So the first reroll costs 1, the
> second 2, the third 3.. (For a total of 6).).
I believe that with "burn", LJ means the point is gone _forever_ rather
than coming back when the PCs have the time to catch their breaths.
> > GMs roll street etiquette (to avoid the situation of someone with S.Et 2
> > ruining the whole plot and/or someone with 10 not finding out diddly)
I wouldn't do this... it makes the whole point of having Etiquette skills
worthless -- much better to spend those skill points on something else if
the GM tells you what (s)he thinks you need to know regardless of the
roll of the dice.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
You've got to go there and find it, my friend.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 08:16:41 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bowmandl@*****.dhr.state.nc.us>
From: "Darrell L. Bowman" <bowmandl@*****.DHR.STATE.NC.US>
Subject: Re: Number of Houser Rules
In-Reply-To: <199705061225.IAA12958@****.abts.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On 6 May 97 at 8:25, Shaun Sides wrote:
> > > Ambidexterity does not exist, and two handed shooting is not permitted.
> >
> > Those aren't house rules, they're how-to-fuck-over-the-players
> > rules...
>
> I think his stand on ambidexterity in SR is valid. Given the fact
> that a combat round lasts in the neighborhood of 3 seconds, which can
> mean 4 or even 5 action phases if the character is decked out the
> right way, each of them allowing for two three-round bursts from many
> of the firearms available, my view on weilding two pistols (or
> whatever) is that it takes longer before you have to reload. To
> allow double actions would be, IMO, ludicrous.
Good point, but I'm trying to remember. I think that firing a
burst fire from a pistol is a complex action. I know that it is
from a Savalette, don't remember ahout any other right off the
top of my head.
Guys? is that the case?
Any other burst fire would have to come from a rifle type
weapon, which wouldn't matter if you were ambedextrious.
Shooting two single shot weapons I wouldn't think would be a
problem, but I might still apply a modifer to the target for the
purpose of trying to aim two weapons..
Knights of Shadows Game Master
Excalibur
Darrell L. Bowman
bowmandl@*****.dhr.state.nc.us
http://www.abts.net/~arch/kos_rule.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 08:16:41 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bowmandl@*****.dhr.state.nc.us>
From: "Darrell L. Bowman" <bowmandl@*****.DHR.STATE.NC.US>
Subject: Re: GM'ing SR
In-Reply-To: <199705061208.IAA12682@****.abts.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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On 6 May 97 at 8:08, Shaun Sides wrote:
> > Anyways, I feel I try to be fair in both house-rules are core rule
> > interpretation. I'm more than willing to bounce ideas of my players
> > and get their feedback before setting down a ruling. My players have
> > also seen me admit to being wrong or find one of their
> > intrepretations better than my own. However, my group also respects
> > my position as GM and once I've laid down a final ruling it stands.
>
> And an interesting note on GM'ing in general. I've found that folks
> I don't know so well will usually give more respect and less crap
> about stuff that happens than the ones whom I've known forever and
> are my friends. Weird, huh? Thank the Gods Excalibur (Darrell) has
> been an exception to that.
::Elvis Mode On::
Why,.. thankye, thankey vera much,...
::Elvis Mode Off::
Knights of Shadows Game Master
Excalibur
Darrell L. Bowman
bowmandl@*****.dhr.state.nc.us
http://www.abts.net/~arch/kos_rule.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 08:24:38 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Plastic Warriors For Mac?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Gurth once dared to write,
>However, I have been thinking of saving the files in RTF format and
>replacing the Word files on my page with those. This would enable just
>about anyone with a word processor to view the files, regardless of
>whether they use Windows or a Mac, and I believe some Unix programs can
>use them too.
I've had a problem with RTF files on my Mac. I do all my word
processing in Quark Xpress so all I'll get from a RTF file is text in
default font settings and a drekload of code for anything else inserted
into the file. I ran into this problem when I offered to convert Fro's
TSS issue. I'd rather not try to look at a RTF file. I personally think
of it more as a Microsoft format (and I don't put anything by Microsoft
on my machine).
>
>As for PDF, I don't have Adobe Acrobat so I can't create them.
Then getting someone else who can would be a good idea. PDF was
designed to be universal and I can read those. I'm glad Fro got his hands
on one because I wasn't having any luck with converting his RTF file for
him.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 08:38:59 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <arch@****.abts.net>
From: Shaun Sides <arch@****.ABTS.NET>
Subject: Re: Runnersºd Tenants?
In-Reply-To: <199705062344.TAA02324@******.san.uc.edu>
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Date: 6 May 97 Time: 19:44
Subject: Re: Runnersºd Tenants?
TO: NightLife
> Glad you don't use any of the Nerps, or Nagee compliations or the
> rest of it. But I use some of the for the simple fact that fasa
> doesn't have a lot of gerneral equipment written up.
One question for you or anyone else: Do you allow the use of
anything from the net/web, or do you specify items from the resources
available on the net/web as acceptable for your game?
Just curious.
a chaoidh teabadaich,
Shaun Sides
arch@****.net
http://www.abts.net/~arch
Never go in against a Sicilian, when DEATH is on the line!
Ha ha ha haha ha. Ha ha ha haha. Ha ha ha <thump>
-- Fezinni, from The Princess Bride
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 08:03:49 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gossamer <jrsnyder@********.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Runnersºd Tenants?
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>> Glad you don't use any of the Nerps, or Nagee compliations
>> or the rest of it. But I use some of the for the simple
>> fact that fasa doesn't have a lot of gerneral equipment
>>written up.
>
>One question for you or anyone else: Do you allow the use
>of anything from the net/web, or do you specify items from
>the resources available on the net/web as acceptable for
>your game?
Absolutely, without a doubt. We use most of the NERPS stuff and
just about everything else found on Gurth's page.
And here's why:
It has been my experience that the material that actually gets
posted to Gurth's page has been playtested much more thoroughly
than anything from FASA, and they can integrate into an existing
game practically seemlessly.
Also, they add so much color and variety to the game, over
and above what is available from FASA.
If you are GMing your game, they also make a neat surprize
for your players. Try introducing a weapon or animal from
Gurth's stock, and don't give the players any stats on it.
let them figure it out in 'in-character' ways before dumping
the stats on them...
Anyway, in answer to your question, yes I do.
Love,
Gossamer
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 15:05:33 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paolo Marcucci <paolo@*********.IT>
Subject: Re: Plastic Warriors For Mac?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:24 07/05/97 -0400, you wrote:
> I've had a problem with RTF files on my Mac. I do all my word
>processing in Quark Xpress so all I'll get from a RTF file is text in
>default font settings and a drekload of code for anything else inserted
>into the file.
You should try with a word processor program, not a dtp one... :) There are
loads not coming from Redmond.
>I ran into this problem when I offered to convert Fro's
>TSS issue. I'd rather not try to look at a RTF file. I personally think
>of it more as a Microsoft format (and I don't put anything by Microsoft
>on my machine).
Actually rtf is an IBM format.
Bye, Paolo
____________________________________________________________
Paolo Marcucci paolo@*********.it
InterWare Service Provider Trieste, Italy
http://www.interware.it/ Tel. +39-40-411400
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 09:08:00 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <arch@****.abts.net>
From: Shaun Sides <arch@****.ABTS.NET>
Subject: Re: Number of Houser Rules
In-Reply-To: <199705071210.IAA88688@*****.dhr.state.nc.us>
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Date: 7 May 97 Time: 8:16
Subject: Re: Number of Houser Rules
TO: Darrell L. Bowman
> Good point, but I'm trying to remember. I think that firing a
> burst fire from a pistol is a complex action. I know that it is from
> a Savalette, don't remember ahout any other right off the top of my
> head.
For the Viper (about the only one I have concrete knowledge of), it's
a simple action.
> Any other burst fire would have to come from a rifle type
> weapon, which wouldn't matter if you were ambedextrious.
> Shooting two single shot weapons I wouldn't think would be a
> problem, but I might still apply a modifer to the target for the
> purpose of trying to aim two weapons..
Erummm, as you will, bro. :)
a chaoidh teabadaich,
Shaun Sides
arch@****.net
http://www.abts.net/~arch
Thought for the day:
The only thing that hurts more than paying income tax
is not having to pay income tax.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 09:07:59 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <arch@****.abts.net>
From: Shaun Sides <arch@****.ABTS.NET>
Subject: Re: Pro's & munchies was Re: Runnersºd Tenants?
In-Reply-To: <35C9DD7DF8@**.opp.psu.edu>
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Date: 6 May 97 Time: 19:53
Subject: Re: Pro's & munchies was Re: Runner
TO: Brett Borger
> Yeah, but is this 100k Text file (about 200 rules) or a MS Word file
> (about 10 rules)
Hehehe.
Good point.
It's a vanilla ascii file, but it does have some formatting (I use
the Boxer editor religiously). The formatting doesn't add to the
bulk, though the file has a snazzy ascii header and a table of
contents which do take up a little space.
The contents are new kits, new character classes, rule
clarifications, how to play by email, house rules, and so on. Then
I have a separate file for the world that all of this takes place
on. :)
It's all at my web site (in html format, of course) if anyone is
interested.
a chaoidh teabadaich,
Shaun Sides
arch@****.net
http://www.abts.net/~arch
Thought for the day:
Dictatorship (n): a form of government under which everything
which is not prohibited is compulsory.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 09:10:20 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <arch@****.abts.net>
From: Shaun Sides <arch@****.ABTS.NET>
Subject: Re: Number of Houser Rules
In-Reply-To: <199705071124.NAA24197@**********.xs4all.nl>
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Date: 7 May 97 Time: 13:25
Subject: Re: Number of Houser Rules
TO: Gurth
> I believe that with "burn", LJ means the point is gone _forever_
> rather than coming back when the PCs have the time to catch their
> breaths.
Yah, I think so. But Rune's right about the increased cost of each
successive reroll attempt.
Never been one to "burn" karma pool points, though, myself.
a chaoidh teabadaich,
Shaun Sides
arch@****.net
http://www.abts.net/~arch
Thought for the day:
Intuition (n): an uncanny sixth sense which tells people
that they are right, whether they are or not.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 08:13:06 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Boyd Stephen Smith, Jr." <gilmeth@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Aura, How Far from the Body?
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From: Lorden [SMTP:westln@***.EDU]
Subject: Astral Aura, How Far from the Body?
> After following the Astral sight thread for a few days, it left
> me with a question. How far does the aura of a person extend
> beyond his body? I have two lines of thought on this.
> Given that their are 4 types of people.
> People with cyber and/or Bioware
> Normal
> Adepts
> Mages
> Either the aura extends the same distance for all types of
> people, and that it's the colour or quality of the aura that is
> different for each type of person.
> My second line of thought is that the aura extends further from
> your body as you move from type A to D. There would still be a
> quality difference in the auras.
> Both lines of thought leave the question as to how far the aura
> extends open. I see this coming up in my group as a way to spot
> someone just arround a corner or on the aother side of a door
> much like you might spot someone with thermo. I'm curious to see
> what others have decided on this.
I guess this is a house rule type thing but, I always imagined
aura as points of light, much like a torch, or mundanes and
inactive magicians. This would mean that yes, you could see
around the corner or behind the box because the "glow" would
be what you saw. However, this "light" becomes from in astral
projecting and perceiving mages. That would mean that if an
astraly perceiving mage was around a corner you couldn't see
him. Note: I do enforce the rule that you can't cast spells at the
"glow" of an aura like that. You must be able to see some part
of the persons "torch" a.k.a., his meatbody or, if projecting, the
astral projection. Plus, only seeing a partial meatbody like a
hand would make the target number higher because it is harder
to align auras (I use normal called-shot type rules.)
I do allow my players to tell (rough gestimate) how much essence
the person they are perceiving has. I don't go by the dark spot
where the cyberware is crap. Essence is what binds the person
together, and therefore the cyberware as well and makes them
a whole, a dimmer whole but whole. My players can also tell if
there is an adept plus, whether physical, hermetic, or shamantic
or a magician, hermetic or shamantic. I don't have the rules for
physical mages so I don't have to throw that in there, yet.
Anyway, I hope that answers your questions.
Twinkie
gilmeth@*********.com
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Pines/3759/
ICQ UIN: 514984
Sitebuilder Number: 531896
Do NOT use this or any other of my e-mail addresses in a for-profit =
e-mail database. The usage of such an address is bound by the terms =
listed at http://www.rahul.net/starowl/email.html
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 07:24:22 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Paranormals
In-Reply-To: <199705071123.HAA05654@*****.itribe.net> from "Gurth" at May
7,
97 01:25:31 pm
Content-Type: text
Gurth wrote:
|
| David Buehrer said on 13:50/ 6 May 97...
|
| > How about this one. It says in SRII that the vehicle armor values from SRI
| > and RBB should be tripled. Do the same for critter hardened armor from
| > SRI and PAoNA. Now try to take down a juggernaut.
|
| Good idea, except that SRI, and therefore PAoNA, didn't _have_ hardened
| armor -- it was introduced in SRII, and the sourcebook updates section
| gives hardened armor ratings for all the PAoNA critters that should have
| it. Tripling it isn't necessary.
I try to give the players on this list who have GMs on this list a heart
attack and you gotta go an let the air out of it :( ;)
Yeah, I forgot that hardened armor is SRII. It was a fun idea while it
lasted though.
-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 03:28:23 -1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: tom Cone <Brother-1@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Number of Houser Rules
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>You just won't hit anything
Regarding two handed shooting (You know what I mean)
One of the people in our group is a PhysAd that
concentrated on firearms, got one or two cyber goodies, and can
currently kill with a 2L pistol at extreme range. Generally, yes I agree
that it's near impossible, but some folk have around 17 dice to roll
with a smartgun link,etc etc. It's possible to make a character who,
IMO, could handle this type of circumstance.
Brother-1. Decker for hire.
>Visit Dot's Deck Technologies! Just north of the Sea-TAC!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 07:29:51 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Number of Houser Rules
In-Reply-To: <199705071122.HAA05591@*****.itribe.net> from "Gurth" at May
7,
97 01:25:31 pm
Content-Type: text
Gurth wrote:
|
| David Buehrer said on 7:09/ 6 May 97...
|
| > | Those aren't house rules, they're how-to-fuck-over-the-players rules...
| >
| > If it was anyone but Tinner and Co. I would agree. However, his
| > players seem to love his game, so he's doing something right :) You
| > gotta admit, numbers 1, 2, and 4 must really make his players think
| > things out. His game is not a "guns blazing" one.
|
| I didn't get that impression, no... Still, I'd advise GMs to think
| things through very well before introducing these house rules.
Good point. Just because my house rules fit in my game doesn't mean
they'll fit in yours (speaking to the list). Think it through and
check with your players before you pick up someone else's house rule.
| > | Tasers can cause extra damage to cyberware.
| >
| > One to add to my list.
|
| <plug>It's in Tech Specs, downloadable from my page.</plug>
That was almost an advertisement ;)
| > | The Ambidexterity rules from FoF are not used because they're way too
| > | complicated.
| >
| > Ditto. Unfortunately I can't remember what I do in place of them.
| > I'm eventually going to post them to my web page, so check there in
| > about a month.
|
| I don't use them at all. Ambidexterity feels too much like an FRPG thing
| to me, since I've never met anyone IRL who could show me true
| ambidexterity...
Another good point. I guess I've played way to much AD$D. Maybe
make it a 0.5 cost PA ability with the only benefit gained is no
offhand modifier, but recoil still stacks up as per your example.
-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 03:30:12 -1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: tom Cone <Brother-1@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: The (almost) recent death of (almost) Pres. Dunkelzahn
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV)
>spontaneous matter-antimatter annhilation?
Dunkelzahn was powered by dilithium crystals?
Brother-1. Decker for hire.
>Visit Dot's Deck Technologies! Just north of the Sea-TAC!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 14:31:42 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: Paranormals
Gurth writes
> Simon T. Sailer said on 8:05/ 5 May 97...
>
> > Whenever I want to hassle my players with tough metabears,
> > colour-adaptive bandersnaches or even gigantic juggernauts, the
> > result is the same...
> [snip]
> > Same goes for nearly all animals. They are no challenge.
> > Anybody got a idea (aside from: 'Up their stats.')?
>
> Critters aren't fun in SR unless you make it difficult for the players.
> You can't play an AD&D-style "kill the monsters" adventure, because
> automatic weapons make it very hard for the monsters to survive.
>
Just about any gun vs nearly any critter is totally terminal as you
say regardless of the shadow comments to the contrary.
A few things like Ghede flis can worry PC's even if they can waste
them dead easy,
PC: I rolled a 10 on Parazoolology, what are these things?
GM: As you guessed Ghede files, oh by the way some carry vitas 3,
don't get bitten :)
PC's with some morals help, try the sprawl sites encounter involoving
a griffin with a group that care about the things fate, sure you can
knock it out, now just how do you pick up a ton of unconcious
griffin, lone star don't want to know (or will ask you for your
permit for your pet when they arrive), the local vets out on a call,
the local society representatives don't have a clue (and will call
the cops), the onlookers think its fun, and the media are beating
feet for the vicinity, the local gang fancy griffin feathers for
their uniforms and now your fixers on the phone with a job from
Johnson who wants his/her stolen Griffin back in one piece for a
large sum of money, only please no cops :)
adjust to suit critter.
> A few things I can think of: get most of the PCs gear away from them
> before letting them go up against a critter. For example, kidnap them,
> move them to a little house on the prairie (sp?), and let them escape. No
> body armor, no guns except the double-barrel shotgun (with two rounds)
> they snatched from the guard, and maybe a few kitchen knives if they're
> smart enough to take those along. _Then_ let them run into a juggernaut :)
>
The water borne critters can be fun, once ran into one of the big
'floating logs' while trying to drive jet skis. Now guess what no one
had the required skill, attacks in vehicle combat is limited by your
skill, we spent most of our actions trying to avoid swimming.
[no we weren't stupid enough to put our selves in this position the
jet skis had been borrowed off the coppers that sank the lifeboat we
had been using as a getaway vehicle, they lasted a whole sleep spell:)
]
> This sort of thing happens in Harlequin's Back at one point: the PCs are
> armed with swords and bows at one point, and they are asked to go out
> hunting for the village.
All sections of said adventure are fun if your PC's are not very good
with swords :).
> Or: Paranormal Animals of Europe, pages 110 and 111 *GM grin*
>
Oh force 6 flamethrower :) whoosh!!!!
Give it impact armour equal to force like bugs get in 2nd ed or the
first competent mage or physad kill geek it in an instant.
Then its a worth oopnent for 250 odd karma PC's with all the toys
money can buy :)
If that doesn't work put em on a plane and leaf 10 pages further
through PAE :) Do remember to clear your escape route first :)
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 08:05:50 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: APDS and Hardened Armor
In-Reply-To: <199705071122.HAA05513@*****.itribe.net> from "Gurth" at May
7,
97 01:25:31 pm
Content-Type: text
Gurth wrote:
|
| One of the questions we came up with was whether armor is treated like a
| barrier in _every_ situation, or only for determining whether the round
| bounces or not. For example, do holes get blown in the armor is the round
| penetrates, like for barriers?
I've always had a problem with that. I just use my best judgement (always
open to debate) when deciding how big a hole it makes. If the characters
are using something like C-12 with the purpose of blowing a hole through a
wall then I use the rules as is.
| > What I do need to know -
| > 1) Is "hardened armor" the same as vehicle armor?
|
| SRII page 218: "Creatures with hardened armor have an exoskeleton
| possessing the same qualities as vehicle armor." I say that means that the
| exact same rules apply to firing at a critter with hardened armor (like a
| juggernaut) as to firing at an armored vehicle -- the rounds bounce off if
| their Power is less than the armor rating, and the critter gets half the
| armor rating in extra dice to resist.
| One thing here is that, if you rule vehicle armor can have big holes shot
| into it, this shouldn't apply to critter armor -- having a 2-meter hole in
| an animal's side would be a bit weird IMHO.
Again, GM call. If a juggernaut is hit by an AP missile but resists
the damage I would rule that it's shell that has crater in it, but
not all the way through to soft tissue (and it's pissed). If someone
was using an Uzi with APDS and got a serious then there would be a
smattering of 1-2 inch holes with blood oozing out.
-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 08:14:42 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Critters and Wound Modifiers
Content-Type: text
<opening up to criticism>
I've always heard that the most dangeous animal is a wounded one.
Does anybody out there with RL experience feel that wound modifiers
should *not* be applied to nonsentient critters?
My thinking is that with people the pain from the wound interferes
with thinking clearly. Animals however go on instinct and I would
assume that instinct is not affected by pain, and in fact pain may
tigger instincts that balance it out.
-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 09:51:56 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Faux Pas (Thomas)" <thomas@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: The (almost) recent death of (almost) Pres. Dunkelzahn
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:51 PM 5/6/97 -0400, Jonathan Hurley whispered:
>I have just one thing to point out about the whole dunklezahn
assassination theory stuff.
>
>Consider what the PC's are hired to do by Dunklezahn in Super Tuesday.
>
>Isn't a box the size of a dictionary a little large for a bug? Remember, the
>PC's are on a dry run to try and get "something" past the USSS onto a limo
>to be used by a president(ial candidate)
Red herring.
The bomb that killed Dunkelzahn was placed in the sewers, not in his limo.
The shaped charge blew up, through the street, and through the limo.
-Thomas Deeny
Visit http://telltale.hart.org - faster, stronger, better than before!
"... what character deserves to be left alone more at the end of the world
than that idiot Ash?"
-Bruce Campbell on the dropped ending for _Army of Darkness_
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 16:57:09 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is
<jhary@*******.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de>
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Organization: Authors of OL.TXT
Subject: Re: Paranormals
In-Reply-To: <1A559B5CB1@********.uibk.ac.at>
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On 6 May 97 at 20:29, Simon T. Sailer wrote:
[snip weaponry]
> Of course, they have to use the real heavy stuff to reach that
> level of protection. But in areas roamed by paranormal critters,
> nobody will complain about 'socially inacceptable armor clothing'.
> As soon as circumstances allow, my players take the heaviest stuff
> possible, and I think they are right.
But it's right that - heavy. Check the "Hustle it along" rules on p.
188, SRII. The module "Harlequin" advisesthe GM to allow half that load
in... *cough* No, I don't say it, in difficult terrain. With even
security armors weighting between 9 and 13 kilos plus body, they'll
meet limits quite fast...
[snip]
> If critters could do the same, that juggernaut would suddenly becoume
> a nearly indefeatable beast that could easily feed on small tanks...
> (and thats exactly what the juggernaut should be)
Again: Rulebook. SRII, p. 282: "The Juggernaut has 8 points of hardened
armor."
Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | G. Santayana |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 16:57:09 +0000
Reply-To: Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is
<jhary@*******.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de>
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Organization: Authors of OL.TXT
Subject: Re: Keep it straight (was: Re: Evil GM (Top Ten))
In-Reply-To: <970506193403_810818358@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On 6 May 97 at 19:34, Walker of Shadows wrote:
[snip person changed by spell]
> >the aura of the person/creature is
> >altered in as much as the person's mental faculties are shut
> >down and the arua reflects the general mental state of the
> Interesting argument. I would've had his past stick with him, since A
> murder in a city park is still there after is is cleaned up, but this
> argument has validity....
>
> Anyone else want to chime in?
Sure. SRII, p. 145: "Astral Perception allows the magician to view the
aura of any living or magical thing, which will reveal to him the true
form or nature of the being. [...] A character under a disguising spell
would also show his or her true form."
'nough said.
Sascha
--
+---___---------+------------------------------------+------------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |I don't believe in love,|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@ |I never have, / I never |
| \___ __/ | Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.de |will, / I don't believe |
|==== \_/ ======|*Wearing hats is just a way of life*| in love / it's never |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me |worth the pain you feel |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----Queensryche-+
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 11:30:51 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tuvyah@***.COM
Subject: Re: Unconcious
Shane Courtrille wrote:
>>If a mage goes unconcious is there a risk of losing control of a
>>spirit or elemental? I think I've read something about that
somewhere... but I don't remember and I can't find anything >>about it.
And Gurth wrote:
>>This rule applies only to allies, see page 72 of the Grimoire -- an ally
>>whose Force exceeds the magician's Charisma may attempt to go free
>>whenever the magician is unconscious from wounds, fatigue, Drain, etc.
>>Otherwise, it may only try this when the magician is dying (has physical
overflow).
P. 139 of the SRII manual: "If the drain knocks the shaman unconscious, the
spirit departs."
And p. 140 of the SRII manual: "If drain knocks the mage unconscious, the
spirit escapes free and uncontrolled."
Ah, clarity :-)
-- Smilin' Ted
"...who knows why he's smilin'."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 16:45:02 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: The (almost) recent death of (almost) Pres. Dunkelzahn
In-Reply-To: <199705071330.GAA24313@****tod-103.bryant.webtv.net> from "tom
Cone" at May 7, 97 03:30:12 am
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|
|>spontaneous matter-antimatter annhilation?
|
|Dunkelzahn was powered by dilithium crystals?
Who needs dilithium crystals? Dunky never had built in warp drive did he?
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 10:16:26 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: The (almost) recent death of (almost) Pres. Dunkelzahn
In-Reply-To: <199705071449.KAA11330@*****.itribe.net> from "Faux Pas" at
May
7, 97 09:51:56 am
Content-Type: text
Faux Pas wrote:
|
| The bomb that killed Dunkelzahn was placed in the sewers, not in his limo.
| The shaped charge blew up, through the street, and through the limo.
So by the rules the explosion had enough to go through the street,
through the armored limo, through Dunk's reactive defensive spells,
and still have enough left over to kill Dunk, and still leave
Washington standing? Do you know how many successes you need on a
shaped charge to get that kind of effect?
I think the explosion was a red herring and something completely
different killed Dunk.
-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 10:20:24 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Paranormals
In-Reply-To: <199705071456.KAA11469@*****.itribe.net> from "Sascha Pabst"
at
May 7, 97 04:57:09 pm
Content-Type: text
Sascha Pabst wrote:
|
| > If critters could do the same, that juggernaut would suddenly becoume
| > a nearly indefeatable beast that could easily feed on small tanks...
| > (and thats exactly what the juggernaut should be)
|
| Again: Rulebook. SRII, p. 282: "The Juggernaut has 8 points of hardened
| armor."
Yup. And hardened armor equals vehicle armor which equals barrier.
Question: why does the juggernaut have 8 points of hardened armor?
What warrents that kind of protection? Guesses?
-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 09:25:10 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jak Koke <jkoke@******.UOREGON.EDU>
Subject: Re: The (almost) recent death of (almost) Pres. Dunkelzahn
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Double-Domed Mike wrote:
>Speaking of this stuff, is Stranger Souls in the
>stores yet?
Should be in game stores by the end of the month and in book stores three or
four weeks into June. I, myself, haven't seen a complete printed book yet,
which means they haven't come off the press. I usually get a couple copies
overnighted to me from Penguin/Roc as soon as they're printed.
Stranger Souls will answer some questions about the assassination, and bring
up new ones. The focus is really on Ryan Mercury, and to a lesser degree on
Nadja Daviar, and not on Dunkelzahn, though he is still alive at the
beginning of the novel. The limo explosion occurs in Chapter Two.
Other characters include Thomas Roxborough (you should all know who he is),
Carla Brooks, Senor Oscuro, Jane-in-the-box (Dunkelzahn's decker and a new
character), a cyberzombie named Burnout (almost a brand new character,
though he posted in one of the sourcebooks, before becoming a cyberzombie),
a Matrix persona called Alice (new), Lucero (an ex-member of the Blood Mage
Gestalt, new), Kaylinn Axler (street samurai, new).
The "truth" behind the assassination (who did it and why) is not answered
definitively in Stranger Souls, but I will tell you this much: it is
answered over the course of the entire trilogy. I'm very excited to see what
everyone thinks about it.
BTW, if anyone wants a signed copy of Stranger Souls, I will be doing a
signing at my local science fiction / fantasy / horror / mystery bookstore,
Mysterious Galaxy, on June 21. If you're in the San Diego area, come join
me. Emma Bull and Will Shetterly will also be there. If you can't make it,
but still want a signed book, Mysterious Galaxy has a web page and an 800
phone number and will be glad to mail copies out. If you order a book and
let them know who you are and that you're part of this list (before the
signing), I'd be glad to personalize a book for you.
They also have signed copies of Dead Air in stock. No, I do not have any
commercial affiliation with them; they're just good people and I like to
help them out any way I can. The web address is http://www.mystgalaxy.com
Hope this hasn't seemed too much like shameless self-promotion. I actually
do think one or two people on this list might be interested.
Best,
--Jak
Jak Koke La Jolla, CA
----------------------------------------------------------
Stranger Souls chapters are now online at
http://www.fasa.com/NEW%20FICTION/MAIN/NewFiction.html
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 08:54:51 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Character Attachment (Don't worry Spike not that
kindofattachment)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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| It's like someone else said, PC's should die because it's their time to
go,
| not because they own crappy dice.
Isn't it amazing how superstitious players are about their dice. (myself
included) I am on a personal crusade to get most of the people in my group
to get new ones as the crappy ones they have now are getting them killed.
=)
| > | "We could find a speck of dust and scribble down our life stories
.."
| >
| > "We could both wear cowboy hats and pretend that we can speak
Italian..."
|
| Glad to see someone else caught the reference! :-)
| Fizzy, fuzzy, big and buzzy!
Hey they are from Arizona...good in concert if you get the chance.
-Caric
"Everybody knows that the world is full of stupid people..."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:46:12 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: Re: Paranormals
In-Reply-To: <199705071620.KAA29556@******>
> | Again: Rulebook. SRII, p. 282: "The Juggernaut has 8 points of hardened
> | armor."
>
> Yup. And hardened armor equals vehicle armor which equals barrier.
> Question: why does the juggernaut have 8 points of hardened armor?
> What warrents that kind of protection? Guesses?
>
> -David
I wouldn't say so. Hardened armor equals barrier, but vehicle armor
is another thing entirely. When the rules for vehicle armor are used,
the armor rating itself becomes a barrier, and the body rating is
added as standard armor. Furthermore, the damage level of any non-AV
weapon is lowered by one.
Its getting confusing...
ss
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 19:03:17 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: Re: Paranormals
In-Reply-To: <199705071124.NAA24055@**********.xs4all.nl>
> > same with combat drugs... What reason could anybody have to
> > feed Jazz to Piasmas?
>
> It's cheaper and less dangerous than cybering them? Animals suffer from
> what, for want of a better term, I'll call cyberpsychosis (see page 220 of
> SRII) so feeding guard animals a few combat drugs would be safer to the
> corp that uses them.
>
> --
> Gurth
Yes, I know the advantages of combat drugs. But no way will this work
for animals. Cybering animals is out of question for me (except for
very rare occations...special con 'experiments')
Now to the drugs... It might be possible to use them on soldiers,
since they can take a dose when the rumble starts. But animals can't,
so they have to be kept under constant drug influence. Guess they
would die after a few days... Can you imagine the costs?
Dunno the price for a Piasma, but I estimate it would be around 50k
or more.
Try to think as a security agency...Critters like that would be
prohibitively expensive, and the con would use drones instead.
In my game, I try to give even
the opposition a live, and weaknesses. Not everybody lives just to
toughen up the players lifes. Security guards are just humans, and
are not always looking the right way, and the security rigger on duty
might just play chess with his sec-mage comrade....
And corps don't spend more money on security than on research.
ss
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 10:16:22 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mike.paff@*****.COM
Subject: Re: Paranormals
> > It's cheaper and less dangerous than cybering them? Animals suffer from
> > what, for want of a better term, I'll call cyberpsychosis (see page 220 of
> > SRII) so feeding guard animals a few combat drugs would be safer to the
> > corp that uses them.
>
> Now to the drugs... It might be possible to use them on soldiers,
> since they can take a dose when the rumble starts. But animals can't,
> so they have to be kept under constant drug influence. Guess they
> would die after a few days... Can you imagine the costs?
>
It wouldn't be unreasonable for the corp to have developed a collar
for the animals which automatically injects the drug on command from
the security system. That way, the animal will only be under the effects
when trouble starts (but only once the runners have been detected).
The first few animals may be pushovers, but the rest are likely to be
more effective.
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 13:20:12 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <arch@****.abts.net>
From: Shaun Sides <arch@****.ABTS.NET>
Subject: Gear in SR
In-Reply-To: <v02110100af95da48a445@[144.92.182.89]>
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Date: 7 May 97 Time: 8:03
Subject: Re: Runnersºd Tenants?
TO: Gossamer
> Absolutely, without a doubt. We use most of the NERPS stuff and just
> about everything else found on Gurth's page.
Then my next question would be, is all equipment acquisition done
in-game?
a chaoidh teabadaich,
Shaun Sides
arch@****.net
http://www.abts.net/~arch
THE SIX PHASES OF A PROJECT
1. Enthusiasm
2. Disillusionment
3. Panic
4. Search for the guilty
5. Punishment of the innocent
6. Praise and honours for the non-participants
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 12:33:29 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: James Paulsen <lowfyr@***********.COM>
Organization: Northern Net
Subject: Re: Critters and Wound Modifiers
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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David Buehrer wrote:
>
>
> I've always heard that the most dangeous animal is a wounded one.
> Does anybody out there with RL experience feel that wound modifiers
> should *not* be applied to nonsentient critters?
>
> My thinking is that with people the pain from the wound interferes
> with thinking clearly. Animals however go on instinct and I would
> assume that instinct is not affected by pain, and in fact pain may
> tigger instincts that balance it out.
> That's an extrememly valid point that I hadn't considered before and I
have two RL experiences that help me lean that way in my game.
I have seen a black bear shot and run slightly less than fifty yards
before falling. When it was dressed, it was discovered that the heart
had been blown completely out of the chest cavity. Had it wanted to do
damage in that last fifty yards, it very well could have.
Another incident involved hitting a timber wolf doing seventy miles an
hour with a pick up. I didn't see it until it was in front of the car
and too late. After the impact, it rose up, seemingly unhurt, and
vanished at a run across a field and into the woods.
Even though both of these animals (probably) died, I like the idea of
maybe not ignorring wound modifiers per se, but toning them down
slightly, so that a L wound=no mods, M wound=L wound modifiers, M=S
modifiers and so on down the line until they are put down.
But I also think it is important to keep the animal in mind--a flying
squirrel is not going to be able to take a lot of damage from an assault
cannon round, etc. This will probably go into my house rules for certain
critter only.
Anyway, enough said,
Thanks for the idea,
Jim (who's sick to death of watching his critters get put down with one
bullet).
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 07:38:00 -1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: tom Cone <Brother-1@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: The (almost) recent death of (almost) Pres. Dunkelzahn
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV)
>Dunky never had built in warp drive, did he?
A dragon that can travel at warp speed. <shudder>
Brother-1. Decker for hire.
>Visit Dot's Deck Technologies! Just north of the Sea-TAC!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 14:16:34 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Number of Houser Rules
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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> > | Those aren't house rules, they're how-to-fuck-over-the-players
rules...
Isn't that my job? ;-)
Seriously though in a game where the power levels can increase so
drastically, and rapidly, these were efforts I made to keep things
challenging, and keep the players "honest."
> > If it was anyone but Tinner and Co. I would agree. However, his
> > players seem to love his game, so he's doing something right :) You
> > gotta admit, numbers 1, 2, and 4 must really make his players think
> > things out. His game is not a "guns blazing" one.
We do our share of guns balzing stuff too, but we experimented with the
ambidexterity rules and I found them waaayyyy too lethal, and too munchy.
With a little karma EVERY character would have NO reason NOT to buy the
skill.
Being able to effectively double the power of every gun fired is just TOO
nasty for my game thanks. :-)
And like Gurth said, I've NEVER met anyone who could fire a gun with both
hands with ANY accuracy.
If you just want to bullet hose the place to keep people pinned down,
that's fine.
But I'm just not buying accurately targeted shots with both hands.
I misspoke when I said I don't allow two handed fighting though.
I do, but the player must split his dice for each target, decidiing how
many he will allocate to each target.
Keeps things a little more realistic IMO.
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"We could find a speck of dust and scribble down our life stories ..."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 10:20:40 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
So how do you think they managed to clear out enough of the Bugs from Chicago
that it's safe to reopen the city?
The basic problem in going after enemies that are spirits is that you will
almost certainly need mages in order to deal with them, and mages are a very
scarce resource. However, there are a few useful stunts you could pull, I
think, that would make it easier to deal with spirit opponents.
Start with planes going overhead spraying out aerosols filled with bacteria
(not fat bacteria, just things that can survive in an aerosol) that have
a tendency to clump together into big sheets. With a continuous (and
expensive) bombardment like that, spirits will be pulled down to the ground
by the sheets or forced to manifest physically (at which point they can
be targetted).
Next, get a bunch of tanks, both LAV's and treaded vehicles. Build wards
around them, make a layer in the armor that contains lichen, whatever it
takes,
but make sure that spirits can't get in and out of them. Put in mundane
soldiers and at least one mage, using a fiber-optic observation network
(just like security mages) to see all around. Equip said vehicle with
lots of micro turrets with Firelance lasers (or the next generation up from
them-- they've had years to work at it!). The mages are there for magical
defense and casting a physical illusion spell that causes an astral target
to be visible on the physical plane-- enough that riggers and other gunners
can target it. Lasers, IIRC, qualify as elemental light, and are a lot
more dangerous against spirits than normal ammo. I'm not sure if water
cannon firing bacterial broth would be very useful or not, but it's another
thing worth contemplating.
The LAV's are there to go after the outdoor opponents. The treaded tanks
are meant to go indoors (!) when possible. There will be plenty of places
the treaded tanks couldn't go, though, and I'm trying to figure out how
you could equip drones properly to deal with such things...
--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "So, an Arisian, a Vorlon, and a knnn go into a tavern..." %%
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 12:04:45 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Paranormals
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---"Simon T. Sailer" wrote:
>
> > That's how I've been playing hardened armor.
>
> Hmm... I don't think thats the right way in any case. You use this
> rule on military grade armor (which is hardened armor), too?
> Or just on vehicles and structures?
>
> ss
SRII page 218: "Creatures with hardened armor have an exoskeleton
possessing the same qualities as vehicle armor."
SRII page 108: "In attacks against vehicles with armor, the armor acts
as a Barrier Rating. That is, if the attacking weapon does not exceed
the rating of the vehicle armor, it will not penetrate."
-and-
SRII page 108: "When resisting damage, a driver whose vehicle has
vehicle armor rolls a number of dice equal to the Body of the vehicle,
plus one-half the vehicle armor against a target number equal to the
Power of the weapon, minus the Body plus vehicle Armor Ratings."
From what I understand non-critter hardened armor, such as military
grade, has the same properties as well.
===
@>--,--'--- Loki
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
- A. C. Clarke
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
===
@>--,--'--- Loki
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
- A. C. Clarke
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 14:24:23 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gossamer <kajohnson@*******.TEC.WI.US>
Subject: Re: Gear in SR
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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> > Absolutely, without a doubt. We use most of the NERPS stuff and just
> > about everything else found on Gurth's page.
>
> Then my next question would be, is all equipment acquisition done
> in-game?
Personally, I think that depends on a number of factors:
1 What kind of game do you run?
2 How experienced are your players?
3 How much use have you all already gotten out of FASA material?
(ie are you ready for something different?)
4 Lots of other things that I can't think of right now, but I'm sure
someone
else on the list can help.
For us, it seemed realistic to do it from within the game, and we
liked that method a lot. It makes it fun to see an ad for a new
weapon in Soldier of Furtune magazine, and then get to see one
on the streets, and then take it and try it, and then decide to
look at its stats...
My only advice if you try to do that, do it slowly; don't flood
your game...
Gossamer
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 12:17:16 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Paranormals
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---"Simon T. Sailer" wrote:
>
> I wouldn't say so. Hardened armor equals barrier, but vehicle armor
> is another thing entirely. When the rules for vehicle armor are used,
> the armor rating itself becomes a barrier, and the body rating is
> added as standard armor. Furthermore, the damage level of any non-AV
> weapon is lowered by one.
SRII page 218: "Creatures with hardened armor have an exoskeleton
possessing the same qualities as vehicle armor."
It's pretty straight forward, vehicle armor is not "another thing
entirely," that's how hardened armor works.
===
@>--,--'--- Loki
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
- A. C. Clarke
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 15:02:46 -0500
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From: Gossamer <kajohnson@*******.TEC.WI.US>
Subject: Re: Number of Houser Rules
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> And like Gurth said, I've NEVER met anyone who could fire
> a gun with both hands with ANY accuracy.
In agreeing with both Gurth and Steve Tinner, I must say that
while I am an ambidexterous shooter (and writer and eater
and everyhting else I do), I am the only one that I know.
And my ambidexterity is not total. I did shoot Expert in
US Marine rifle and pistol ranges with both hands, but I never
shot with 2 guns at the same time. Also, I shot about 6%
lower with a pistol with my left hand (pretty consistently too
3 out of 3 times I was 5-7% lower as a lefty).
As I understand, my ambidexterity is also linked to my
dyslexia which is linked to my IQ score, my creativity,
and my memory which are all linked to my inability to
concentrate very well. I don't understand it all, I do wish
it would go away.
Personally I would not allow ambidexterity into the game
as it now stands... Those people are too rare.
Gossamer
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 23:01:44 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <runefo@***.uio.no>
From: Rune Fostervoll <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Organization: The University of Oslo
Subject: Re: Number of Houser Rules
In-Reply-To: <199705071124.NAA24197@**********.xs4all.nl>
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> Rune Fostervoll said on 4:25/ 7 May 97...
> > > Every re-roll beyond the first costs one point of KP to BURN
> > I'm not sure everyone's noticed this.. the reroll cost in karma
> > increases by one at each attempt. (So the first reroll costs 1, the
> > second 2, the third 3.. (For a total of 6).).
>
> I believe that with "burn", LJ means the point is gone _forever_ rather
> than coming back when the PCs have the time to catch their breaths.
Of course. My point was that some GM's I've talked to haven't noticed
that karma cost for rerolls increase, and so look for other ways to
make the cost steeper - for instance, burning it, which is why I made
my comment.
> > > GMs roll street etiquette (to avoid the situation of someone with S.Et 2
> > > ruining the whole plot and/or someone with 10 not finding out diddly)
>
> I wouldn't do this... it makes the whole point of having Etiquette skills
> worthless -- much better to spend those skill points on something else if
> the GM tells you what (s)he thinks you need to know regardless of the
> roll of the dice.
I agree to this one. On the other hand, neither have I prepared
tables for how much a player learns with what kind of roll, and so
what they learn is a bit random. And I am afriad I often just roll
the dice to see if they get something high-ish, rather than have set
TN's and success limits.
The coop
rules I mentioned is a good idea for etiquette rolls, since it
determines what the party as a whole can dredge out of their
memories.
"But the dread of something after death,
The undiscovered country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have,
Than fly to others that we no not of."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 15:02:52 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Productions
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
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> From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
> but make sure that spirits can't get in and out of them. Put in mundane
> soldiers and at least one mage, using a fiber-optic observation network
> (just like security mages) to see all around.
One minor point I would like to bring up..If the mage can see out
with this system..it by its very nature creates a hole in your living
barrier..A small hole to be sure..but a hole none the less..and some
nasty spirit should be able to figure a way in through any hole..In
time of course..
--------------------------------GRANITE "Rock Steady"
=====================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
=====================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 17:18:57 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's Life & Death
[lots of discussion and speculation about the Big D's death snipped]
I think this had been an interesting discussion so far. Not all of it is
accurate. Some of it is WAY off, in fact, but there are a few telling points.
Without blowing the whole plotline, I will mention the Election of '57,
Dunkelzahn's death and the events which followed were not haphazard or a
"panic" reaction by FASA. As someone who was at the planning meeting, I can
tell you a lot of thought and planning when into the whole plotline and where
it would go. FASA knows EXACTLY what happened in front of the Watergate Hotel
that night and they know just why it happened. Most of it will be revealed in
Jak Koke's Dragonheart Trilogy, but elements and aftershocks of the
assassination will be around in Shadowrun for years to come.
On a related note, speaking completely unofficially, I have worked as a
freelancer with Mike Mulvihill since before he was official Shadowrun
Developer and I have the utmost confidence in his ability to steer the game
and the game universe in the right direction. He's been telling me about
plans for '98 and I can tell you some real cool things are in store for
Shadowrun. It's going to be up to Mike to tell you what they will be : )
FASA is NOT going to turn Shadowrun into "Earthdawn with guns." At least not
in the forseeable future. If they are, then they've been keeping it a REAL
good secret : ) Magic is, and will hopefully remain, an important element of
the Sixth World, but there are lots of other areas Shadowrun will explore.
The second edition of the Rigger Black Book is going to be full of
techno-toys and goodies galore and some upcoming plots are going to focus
much more on the non-magical side of things in SR much in the same way the
Mob War! plotline did.
Stick around for the ride, chummers. It'll be a good one.
Steve K.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 16:24:26 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Faux Pas (Thomas)" <thomas@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
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At 10:20 AM 5/7/97 -0800, Max Rible whispered:
>So how do you think they managed to clear out enough of the Bugs from Chicago
>that it's safe to reopen the city?
The bugs possessed the people in charge who then declared it's safe,
allowing the other bugs out into the rest of the UCAS, and letting more
hosts in. Have a big spectacular raid that wouldn't work, but most people
think would, like releasing a harmless gas over the area and declaring it
successful would do the trick.
-Thomas Deeny
Visit http://telltale.hart.org - faster, stronger, better than before!
"... what character deserves to be left alone more at the end of the world
than that idiot Ash?"
-Bruce Campbell on the dropped ending for _Army of Darkness_
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 13:28:32 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
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At 15:02 5/7/97 -0700, GRANITE wrote:
>> From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
>> but make sure that spirits can't get in and out of them. Put in mundane
>> soldiers and at least one mage, using a fiber-optic observation network
>> (just like security mages) to see all around.
>One minor point I would like to bring up..If the mage can see out
>with this system..it by its very nature creates a hole in your living
>barrier..A small hole to be sure..but a hole none the less..and some
>nasty spirit should be able to figure a way in through any hole..In
>time of course..
I believe that the world of spirits is very fluid, but I don't think it's
*that* fluid. I doubt anything bigger than a Watcher could get in through
a hole less than two inches in diameter.
--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "So, an Arisian, a Vorlon, and a knnn go into a tavern..." %%
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 16:51:43 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: James Paulsen <lowfyr@***********.COM>
Organization: Northern Net
Subject: Who killed Dunk?
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I am sure this has been addressed in recent posts, so please don't thwap
me for bringing it up, my server dumped a bunch of mail :)
I was just wondering if anybody had determined who killed Dunk in their
own world--not the FASA universe. I hadn't any idea when they would
officially reveal it, so I went ahead and created my own scenario that
has been heavily linked to my long term campaign and story-line.
Just curious how others might have tackled...
Take Care Chummers,
Jim
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 08:04:47 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Number of Houser Rules
In-Reply-To: <199705070229.EAA07998@***.uio.no>
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> > Every re-roll beyond the first costs one point of KP to BURN
> I'm not sure everyone's noticed this.. the reroll cost in karma
> increases by one at each attempt. (So the first reroll costs 1, the
> second 2, the third 3.. (For a total of 6).). Anyway, my players
Yes, we had noticed that, but in the spirit of the list we changed the
way we handle karma pool. The way the book suggests makes life rather
difficult for starting characters (basically anyone with kp < 5 ) but
the hand-of-god mage in the party with 21 karma pool could have
re-rolled Hiroshima. We find this way more even.
(Okay, so the mage in the party could still re-roll Hiroshima - but
he'll only do it once now. :) )
> > Spells that affect others adversely (Combat, Damaging Manips, some
> > control Manips) are based on Force drain, not Force/2
>
> This seems a little harsh.. this depends a bit on the optional rules
> used in combat. I'd suggest.. If you use layered armor and such,
> spells become more dangerous than firearms, and a F instead of F/2
> roll makes sense. But if not, spells are hardly more dangerous than a
> grenade launcher or assault rifle, more on the scale of pistols.
We say that the second item of armour only gives half protection,
anything beyond that does nothing. We were going to make it Force drain
for all the spells, but then we looked at stuff like Sterilise and gave
up :)
Also, in our game, grenade launchers ARE dangerous. We're playing a
consciously limited campaign (eg we went to Germany and all we asked for
was heavy pistols!) so we had to find some way of bringing down the
power level of magic to match. We had 3-4 spelltossers in the group at
the time.
> > Full Spectrum Immunity only gives you double body dice to resist stuff
> > like Neurostun, instead of complete immunity.
> If there's something that is supposed to give you complete immunity,
> it sounds like it is not from an official sourcebook... even the best
> stuff I've seen only reduce the force a little or add a few dice, so
> I totally agree here.
Full-Spec Immunity - IIRC, it gives you total immunity to blah blah
blah... look in Shadowtech.
Lady Jestyr
-----------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect in a world full of icebergs
-----------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503/
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-----------------------------------------------
Now a Geocities Times Square Community Leader!
-----------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 08:11:36 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Number of Houser Rules
In-Reply-To: <199705071210.IAA88688@*****.dhr.state.nc.us>
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> Good point, but I'm trying to remember. I think that firing a
> burst fire from a pistol is a complex action. I know that it is
> from a Savalette, don't remember ahout any other right off the
> top of my head.
It's a simple from a Ruger Thunderbolt... a simple from a machine
pistol. Not sure about the Viper Slivergun, and I can't think of any
other burst-capable pistols.
Lady Jestyr
-----------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect in a world full of icebergs
-----------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503/
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-----------------------------------------------
Now a Geocities Times Square Community Leader!
-----------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 08:13:13 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Runnersºd Tenants?
In-Reply-To: <199705071239.IAA04889@****.abts.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> > Glad you don't use any of the Nerps, or Nagee compliations or the
> > rest of it. But I use some of the for the simple fact that fasa
> > doesn't have a lot of gerneral equipment written up.
>
> One question for you or anyone else: Do you allow the use of
> anything from the net/web, or do you specify items from the resources
> available on the net/web as acceptable for your game?
Well, in our group, Bleach and I are currently going through culling out
everything that's not suitable for our game. Then we'll check it with
the other GMs, and then hand it out for general distribution in the
group.
Lady Jestyr
-----------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect in a world full of icebergs
-----------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503/
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-----------------------------------------------
Now a Geocities Times Square Community Leader!
-----------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:48:19 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 10:20 AM 5/7/97 -0800, Max Rible wrote these timeless words:
>So how do you think they managed to clear out enough of the Bugs from Chicago
>that it's safe to reopen the city?
>
[SNIP interesting ideas:]]
It's all a set up. it's gotta be. There's no damn way they could have
gotten rid of all the bugs, or even cleaned up Chi-Town to the point of it
being semi-safe.
I'm thinking that either:
A) The bugs have gone into hiding, and are "playing dead". We know from
threats and a few comments in Bug City that the bugs have been getting
progressivly smarter, and that the Cermak Bomb altered them somehow. I
think with a few good merges with smart people (There were a LOT of
Shadowrunners and Businessmen from the big corps that went missing in
Chicago) leading the bugs, they could easily have gone into hiding. How
many really good merges are out among the general population now waiting
for their time to strike?
B) Someone really high up in the Government and/or Ares is a bug, and is
responsible for the pull out of the military.
Hmmm, no clue yet, but this has me VERY worried...
BTW: Since Chicago is in Target: UCAS, I wonder if that's the section I
get to be in? It would make sense...
<shrug>
<grin>
Bull-the-Bug-Fearin'-Ork-Decker
--
Now the Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
NEW HOME PAGE!: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
"The best Ork Decker you never met"
-Me, in the upcoming "Target: UCAS" Shadowrun Sourcebook!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:51:20 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Paranormals
On Wed, 7 May 1997 10:20:24 -0600 David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
writes:
<snip>
>Yup. And hardened armor equals vehicle armor which equals barrier.
>Question: why does the juggernaut have 8 points of hardened armor?
>What warrents that kind of protection? Guesses?
Defense against anything that could conceivably take it down:) Imagine,
just what kind of natural predators could a juggernaut have to keep its
population in line? And what would your players do when/if they were to
come upon such a creature? >:) >:)
--
-Canthros
And ye shall know the truth, and lobo1@****.com
the truth shall set you free. canthros1@***.com
--John 8:32, KJV
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:51:20 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Aura, How Far from the Body?
On Wed, 7 May 1997 00:55:05 -0400 Lorden <westln@***.EDU> writes:
>After following the Astral sight thread for a few days, it left
>me with a question. How far does the aura of a person extend
>beyond his body? I have two lines of thought on this.
I believe SRII states that the aura extends a few centimeters from the
subject's body and, as it did not differentiate between what the subject
might be, I'd assume that it applies the same for all people.
<Snip>
>Both lines of thought leave the question as to how far the aura
>extends open. I see this coming up in my group as a way to spot
>someone just arround a corner or on the aother side of a door
>much like you might spot someone with thermo. I'm curious to see
>what others have decided on this.
I suppose you could see if someone was around the corner, but that's
about all. It can't be used to target them with a spell (Not enough of
the aura to synch with). And you'd only be able to do it with a character
capable of astral perception. It's be easier to buy thermo goggles, if
you ask me.
--
-Canthros
And ye shall know the truth, and lobo1@****.com
the truth shall set you free. canthros1@***.com
--John 8:32, KJV
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:51:20 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Runnersºd Tenants?
On Wed, 7 May 1997 08:38:59 -0500 Shaun Sides <arch@****.ABTS.NET>
writes:
>> Glad you don't use any of the Nerps, or Nagee compliations or the
>> rest of it. But I use some of the for the simple fact that fasa
>> doesn't have a lot of gerneral equipment written up.
>
>One question for you or anyone else: Do you allow the use of
>anything from the net/web, or do you specify items from the resources
>available on the net/web as acceptable for your game?
I'm more willing to allow something if I've seen it first. I certainly
won't allow something that the player has pulled down off the web without
letting me see it first. The fact is, I'm not too worried about allowing
anything, so long as it was designed with a bit of sense (HMGs with
availability 2/24 hours isn't going to go over real well). But, I'd allow
(almost) anything available in the datafiles for Paolo's SRCG program,
supposing, of course, that I know _what_ it is that the character wants
to buy. Things from Cybertech, for instance, are not allowed since I
don't have that book.
--
-Canthros
And ye shall know the truth, and lobo1@****.com
the truth shall set you free. canthros1@***.com
--John 8:32, KJV
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:51:20 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Number of Houser Rules
On Wed, 7 May 1997 08:16:41 +0000 "Darrell L. Bowman"
<bowmandl@*****.DHR.STATE.NC.US> writes:
>On 6 May 97 at 8:25, Shaun Sides wrote:
>
[...]
>> I think his stand on ambidexterity in SR is valid. Given the fact
>> that a combat round lasts in the neighborhood of 3 seconds, which can
>> mean 4 or even 5 action phases if the character is decked out the
>> right way, each of them allowing for two three-round bursts from many
>> of the firearms available, my view on weilding two pistols (or
>> whatever) is that it takes longer before you have to reload. To
>> allow double actions would be, IMO, ludicrous.
>
>Good point, but I'm trying to remember. I think that firing a
>burst fire from a pistol is a complex action. I know that it is
>from a Savalette, don't remember ahout any other right off the
>top of my head.
I think the Ruger Thunderbolt from the Lone Star Sourcebook is fully
capable of burst-fire (ie, two bursts per phase). I don't know, however,
so someone who owns the book would be better to answer that.
>Any other burst fire would have to come from a rifle type
>weapon, which wouldn't matter if you were ambedextrious.
>Shooting two single shot weapons I wouldn't think would be a
>problem, but I might still apply a modifer to the target for the
>purpose of trying to aim two weapons..
Not true, as every SMG I can think of has Burst-capability and SRII
states that a character can hold pistol and SMG class weapons in one
hand, rifle-class (ARs, Shotguns, LMGs, sporting rifles, and sniper
rifles) weapons in two.
--
-Canthros
And ye shall know the truth, and lobo1@****.com
the truth shall set you free. canthros1@***.com
--John 8:32, KJV
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 15:53:06 +0200
Reply-To: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.net>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Paranormals
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Now I've read a lot about paranormal critters. But I don't own the
PAoNA/E, but am interested in juggernauts (the sound just too ...
interseting? dangerous?)
Could someone please give a brief description, perhaps stats too?
And, please send it to me personally, I think most peolpe on the list
do know them!
-- Arno
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 16:03:59 +0200
Reply-To: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.net>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Paranormals
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Tue, 6 May 1997 20:18:07 +0100, Simon T. Sailer wrote:
>same with combat drugs... What reason could anybody have to
>feed Jazz to Piasmas?
Perhaps it's someone just as sick as ... well, you know, don't you?
answer follows, but also some useful ideas
s
p
o
i
l
e
r
s
p
a
c
e
... sick as Tinner!
;)
Just think about some mad scientists, or even a big corp, that want's
to test new developed drugs. Then, by some accident / sabotage, these
drugs end up in the food for the guarding animals. (Here's the first
anchor to a short run: the runners are hired to handle the animals, and
to find out, why they've gon mad) After that, the rest of the food is
meant to get destroyed, but the one who was paid to get it to the
facility where that sort of stuff is destroyed (missing the correct
term, some sort of special waste burning facility) decides to save all
that money the facility is expected to get and simply dumps the stuff
somewhere. There you go. That same thing happens quite regular these
days with chemical waste.
--
Arno
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 19:15:06 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Number of Houser Rules
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 02:16 PM 5/7/97 -0400, Steven A. Tinner wrote these timeless words:
>> > | Those aren't house rules, they're how-to-fuck-over-the-players
>rules...
>
>Isn't that my job? ;-)
>Seriously though in a game where the power levels can increase so
>drastically, and rapidly, these were efforts I made to keep things
>challenging, and keep the players "honest."
>
Honest? Moi? :]
I play in his game, and while I occasionally feel cheated by a "house rule"
or two (GM: You both have a TN of 7. Bull, you need 8's, the baddy needs
6's.), I think that in general, this helps tip the balance slightly in
favor of the GM.
As most of you know, we've been playing with our characters a LONG time,
and some of our skills have gotten "up there', so to speak. (Several
skills in the double digits:)). So Tinner, as the EGM, has the option of
either jacking the enemies stats and skills sky high, or doping little
things to help them out a bit.
In his defense, things are much more tame in a low power game (We jsut
started some new characters, and this game is much different). When you're
low power, usually you'll fight tougher enemies than you, but he'll tip the
balance in your favor a tad, balancing things out.
>> > If it was anyone but Tinner and Co. I would agree. However, his
>> > players seem to love his game, so he's doing something right :) You
>> > gotta admit, numbers 1, 2, and 4 must really make his players think
>> > things out. His game is not a "guns blazing" one.
>
>We do our share of guns balzing stuff too, but we experimented with the
>ambidexterity rules and I found them waaayyyy too lethal, and too munchy.
>With a little karma EVERY character would have NO reason NOT to buy the
>skill.
>Being able to effectively double the power of every gun fired is just TOO
>nasty for my game thanks. :-)
>
>And like Gurth said, I've NEVER met anyone who could fire a gun with both
>hands with ANY accuracy.
>If you just want to bullet hose the place to keep people pinned down,
>that's fine.
>But I'm just not buying accurately targeted shots with both hands.
>
I agree with this rule, especially as I and Mr. White helped "play-test"
it. It got really disgusting.
>I misspoke when I said I don't allow two handed fighting though.
>I do, but the player must split his dice for each target, decidiing how
>many he will allocate to each target.
>Keeps things a little more realistic IMO.
>
This really balances out. I have a character named Mac that I haevn't
played with much, as he was an experiment in munchkinism. He used katanas,
had a ridiculously high Initiative (4d6+17), 9 dice in Katana (Specialized
with bioware), and 18 dice in combat pool (or close to that).
By splitting his attack dice, he could only make 2 9-dice per go, rather
than 2 18-dice attacks that he could have made with normal ambidexterity
rules. Add 14M damage to that, and it gets ridiculous...
Bull
--
Now the Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
NEW HOME PAGE!: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
"The best Ork Decker you never met"
-Me, in the upcoming "Target: UCAS" Shadowrun Sourcebook!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 23:45:31 GMT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lars Richard Olsen <larsols@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: Runnersºd Tenants?
In-Reply-To: <199705071239.IAA04889@****.abts.net> (message from Shaun Sides
on Wed, 7 May 1997 08:38:59 -0500)
On Wed, 7 May 1997 08:38:59 -0500, Shaun Sides <arch@****.ABTS.NET> said:
> Date: 6 May 97 Time: 19:44
> Subject: Re: Runnersºd Tenants?
> TO: NightLife
>> Glad you don't use any of the Nerps, or Nagee compliations or the
>> rest of it. But I use some of the for the simple fact that fasa
>> doesn't have a lot of gerneral equipment written up.
> One question for you or anyone else: Do you allow the use of
> anything from the net/web, or do you specify items from the resources
> available on the net/web as acceptable for your game?
If you tell your runners that they can use whatever they fin on the
net.. (like we did) things get complicated extremely quicly.
Suddenly we had to read 20 pages of some bullderk about martial arts
where you got these insane speed/power/reach bonuses, + about 300
pages of equipment and other stuff..
We found out that the best way to introduce new eq. and the likes, was
for the GM to announce that a new gun/whatever is available the next
time your runners shop for something similar to the new stuff..
That makes it more exiting and you won't loose controle over the
runners toys..
-lars, rambling
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 23:52:02 GMT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lars Richard Olsen <larsols@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Stupid 2 gun rule
I've seen that a lot of people refuse to let players use one gun in
each hand. Now, 60 years into the future, when you have lasers,
matrix and wireds, how hard would it be for a smartlink in each hand,
connected to your brain or whatever, to direct the fire at one target.
I'm not talking about shooting at two separate targets, but when you
shoot at only one, how hard is that to fix, compared to plugging the
freaking matrix to your brain?
-lars
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 23:57:49 GMT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lars Richard Olsen <larsols@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: The (almost) recent death of (almost) Pres. Dunkelzahn
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970507095155.007199f0@***> (thomas@*******.COM)
On Wed, 7 May 1997 09:51:56 -0500, "Faux Pas (Thomas)"
<thomas@*******.COM> said:
> At 06:51 PM 5/6/97 -0400, Jonathan Hurley whispered:
>> I have just one thing to point out about the whole dunklezahn
> assassination theory stuff.
>>
>> Consider what the PC's are hired to do by Dunklezahn in Super Tuesday.
>>
>> Isn't a box the size of a dictionary a little large for a bug? Remember, the
>> PC's are on a dry run to try and get "something" past the USSS onto a
limo
>> to be used by a president(ial candidate)
> Red herring.
> The bomb that killed Dunkelzahn was placed in the sewers, not in his limo.
> The shaped charge blew up, through the street, and through the limo.
Green herring.
Dunkie is not dead, because he has detect enemies at force three
thousand.
(gotta love this thread)
-lars
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 17:06:34 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Brett Barksdale <brett@***.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Stupid 2 gun rule
>I've seen that a lot of people refuse to let players use one gun in
>each hand. Now, 60 years into the future, when you have lasers,
>matrix and wireds, how hard would it be for a smartlink in each hand,
>connected to your brain or whatever, to direct the fire at one target.
>
>I'm not talking about shooting at two separate targets, but when you
>shoot at only one, how hard is that to fix, compared to plugging the
>freaking matrix to your brain?
A lot of the refusals by some of us to allow our players to do certain
things has little to do with "realism" and everything to do with game
balance. Even if something makes sense, if the rules or system around it
are unbalanced, you /don't/ allow it in your game.
There's nothing wrong with allowing players to use a gun in each hand.
However, there is something wrong if both:
(a) It gives some tactical advantage to the player (extra damage or lower
target numbers) without some disadvantage to balance it.
and
(b) It has easy availability.
If both (a) and (b) are true, there is absolutely no reason for everyone in
the SR world (that uses guns: sammies, etc.) to NOT go "two fisted". Who
wants that?
Why does /everyone/ have smartlinks in SR? Because there's little or no
disadvantage to them and a BIG advantage to having them. Now, in the SR
world, there's nothing (at least to me) wrong with most sammies/grunts/
security guys having smartlinks. That is part of the genre. However,
there would /definitely/ be something weird about every sammie/grunt etc.
using a gun in each hand.
Since the vision of my world doesn't have everyone going around "two
fisted", I won't allow the ability to do so in my game w/o a detriment
that explains why everyone /else/ in the game world (besides the PCs)
aren't doing it as well.
To me, "two fisted" doesn't really add anything to the game, so I don't
bother with it.
- Brett
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 21:12:14 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Astral Aura, How Far from the Body?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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> Either the aura extends the same distance for all types of
> people, and that it's the colour or quality of the aura that is
> different for each type of person.
>
> My second line of thought is that the aura extends further from
> your body as you move from type A to D. There would still be a
> quality difference in the auras.
I'd have to say that I think that the only difference with aura would be
'colour' etc, no the actual difference in size. If auras were different
distances from the body depending on the magic power level of the person, I
think it would have been mentioned somewhere along the line. As it is they
just make fairly broad comments about appearance, not size.
Ray.
-----------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, and whatever happens,|
| You will not be missed |
-----------------------------------------------------
EMAIL: macey@*******.com.au
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 21:31:13 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Number of House Rules
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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> Recoil gets multiplied by varying factors depending on how you hold your
> weapon.
Hey, can you post this in more detail. Sounds interesting.
Ray.
-----------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, and whatever happens,|
| You will not be missed |
-----------------------------------------------------
EMAIL: macey@*******.com.au
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 21:35:45 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Number of Houser Rules
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> > Full Spectrum Immunity only gives you double body dice to resist stuff
> > like Neurostun, instead of complete immunity.
> If there's something that is supposed to give you complete immunity,
> it sounds like it is not from an official sourcebook... even the best
> stuff I've seen only reduce the force a little or add a few dice, so
> I totally agree here.
It's from Shadowtech. It give you immunity to all natural disease and
toxins, and costs IIRC 200,000 nuyen.
Ray.
-----------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, and whatever happens,|
| You will not be missed |
-----------------------------------------------------
EMAIL: macey@*******.com.au
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 16:08:59 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 18:48 5/7/97 -0400, Bull wrote:
>At 10:20 AM 5/7/97 -0800, Max Rible wrote these timeless words:
>>So how do you think they managed to clear out enough of the Bugs from
Chicago
>>that it's safe to reopen the city?
>It's all a set up. it's gotta be. There's no damn way they could have
>gotten rid of all the bugs, or even cleaned up Chi-Town to the point of it
>being semi-safe.
Why not? They've had years to study the problem, and plenty of incentive.
The Bugs are vulnerable to lasers and insecticides. The Bugs are certainly
insidious, but that doesn't mean that a massive effort couldn't purge enough
of them to render Chi-Town habitable. (I expect there may be a few here
and there, but I can't see why it wouldn't be possible to wipe out the
vast majority of them through major effort.) Even in a world of cyberzombies,
blood magic, immortal elves, insect spirits, subliminal BTL broadcasts,
and Great Dragons, I think it's a mistake to underestimate basic human
ingenuity.
>A) The bugs have gone into hiding, and are "playing dead". We know from
>threats and a few comments in Bug City that the bugs have been getting
>progressivly smarter, and that the Cermak Bomb altered them somehow. I
>think with a few good merges with smart people (There were a LOT of
>Shadowrunners and Businessmen from the big corps that went missing in
>Chicago) leading the bugs, they could easily have gone into hiding. How
>many really good merges are out among the general population now waiting
>for their time to strike?
The Bugs aren't gone for good. The same forces that created them originally
are still present. I also expect that those "good merges" with smart people
probably managed to find their way *out* of the CZ long before the government
could come in and crush the hives. Chicago may be relatively safe now--
but where will they pop up next?
>B) Someone really high up in the Government and/or Ares is a bug, and is
>responsible for the pull out of the military.
I suspect that there have been quite a number of very competent security
mages assigned to preventing this kind of occurrence, ever since someone
discovered the first "good merge"...
--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "So, an Arisian, a Vorlon, and a knnn go into a tavern..." %%
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 19:25:08 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Orion Jackson <orion@****.CC.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Top 16 Fixed!
In-Reply-To: <199705060538.XAA12063@*******.datanet.ab.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I live in texas, so I'll add a few comments:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Michael Orion Jackson~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~TAMS Class of 1996/UT Class of 199?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~2112 Guadalupe, Rm. 502; Austin, Tx 78705 (The Goodall-Wooten)~~~~~~~
"Goddamn creatures of the night, they never learn." ~Gideon, _The Crow_
"Happiness is but a temporary chemical imbalance of the true baseline state
of our minds."~Lusiphur, quote ill-rembered and butchered by M. O. Jackson
On Mon, 5 May 1997, Shane Courtrille wrote:
> > The Top 16 Items in the "Republic of Texas" Constitution
> >
> > 14> Nobuddy shuld be descrimnated aginst, less'n he's from New York
> > (or is otherwise Jewish or Muslim or somethin'), or is just
> > kinda dark or differnt in some way.
> >
(This is true in rural areas, sadly enough, but the bigger cities are
usually quite open. Especially Austin, where something like 15 or 20
percent of the population is _openly_ gay...)
> > 13> Barbecued ribs are legal tender for all debts.
> >
Ribs are legally tender now.... ;)
> > 12> Congress shall make no law restricting the size of hats or belt
> > buckles.
> >
Old Texan saying: The bigger the belt buckle, the the cock under it.
> > 11> Citizens to receive one vote per gun owned.
> >
Let's see, for me that's, um...., seven votes.
> > 9> The right to bare breasts, but only on cable, dammit -- not in
> > real life.
> >
Unless in Hippie Hollow in Austin.
> >
> > 5> Freedom of Delusion.
> >
Like thinking that student loans help students? ;)
> > 4> No citizen will be charged extra for gravy on French fries.
> >
"Life, liberty, and an unlimited supply of greasy food."
> > 3> Cold beer cans can be used as "testicular temperature
> > regulators" when operating a motor vehicle.
> >
And the right to utilize empties as lawn art.
> > and the Number 1 Item in the "Republic of Texas" Constitution...
> >
> >
> > 1> You have the right to be on the cover of Trailer Park Trash
> > Magazine.
> >
Or in fagrag, if in DFW or Austin...
> >
> > [ This list copyright 1997 by Chris White and Ziff Davis, Inc. ]
> > [ The Top Five List top5@******.com http://www.topfive.com ]
> > [ To forward or repost, please include this section. ]
> >
> Shane Courtrille - hardware@*******.ab.ca
>
Texas is schizophrenic. Parts of it are just as bad as the hick image
portrayed above. Texas also has two of the nation's largest metropolitan
areas...
17> The right to climb up the Tower on the UT campus and shoot at people,
thus allowing the donut-munchers (cops) and vultures (newscritters) to
justify their salaries...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 23:28:18 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: The (almost) recent death of (almost) Pres. Dunkelzahn
In-Reply-To: <199705071616.KAA29235@******>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In message <199705071616.KAA29235@******>, David Buehrer
<dbuehrer@****.ORG> writes
>Faux Pas wrote:
>|
>| The bomb that killed Dunkelzahn was placed in the sewers, not in his limo.
>| The shaped charge blew up, through the street, and through the limo.
>
>So by the rules the explosion had enough to go through the street,
>through the armored limo, through Dunk's reactive defensive spells,
>and still have enough left over to kill Dunk, and still leave
>Washington standing? Do you know how many successes you need on a
>shaped charge to get that kind of effect?
More to the point, you'd have identifiable pieces left from that. Unless
someone manhandled a ten-foot-wide copper cone weighing a few hundred
pounds down into the sewers, the charge would be unlined: and in any
case it would be suffering massive jet-growth interference, both making
it a lot less effective.
And you're not telling me a dragon as old and as powerful as Dunkelzahn
doesn't have some way to avoid mere HE. If Harlequin and Ehran can
teleport at will, I'd say if it was just the culvert bomb then D's
elsewhere and not dead.
--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 01:54:37 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Dunkelzahn's Life & Death
In-Reply-To: <970507165453_1521760863@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <970507165453_1521760863@*******.mail.aol.com>, Steve Kenson
<TalonMail@***.COM> rambled on endlessly about Dunkelzahn's Life & Death
>[lots of discussion and speculation about the Big D's death snipped]
>
>I think this had been an interesting discussion so far. Not all of it is
>accurate. Some of it is WAY off,
Yeah, but that's what makes it all so much fun :)
<snip Steve finally telling the fans that the novels are canon, and that
they can be taken for rules and game reference - not a good thing
IMNSHO>
>On a related note, speaking completely unofficially, I have worked as a
>freelancer with Mike Mulvihill since before he was official Shadowrun
>Developer and I have the utmost confidence in his ability to steer the game
>and the game universe in the right direction.
Mike's abilities weren't IIRC questioned, just the apparent direction
Shadowrun was taking for a while. Thankfully, when Mike introduced
himself to the list, he made a few things very clear, and I for one am
looking forward to what he's going to do with the game, I just have this
terrible dread deep down...
>He's been telling me about
>plans for '98 and I can tell you some real cool things are in store for
>Shadowrun. It's going to be up to Mike to tell you what they will be : )
Yeah right, like he's going to get everyone's hopes up, and then suffer
schedule delays and the resultant screaming from this motley crew. :)
>FASA is NOT going to turn Shadowrun into "Earthdawn with guns."
That's a _very_ reasuring comment, nicely covered with ..
>At least not
>in the forseeable future.
The standard company disclaimer. Erm, Mr. Kenson, you do realise that
in two sentences you have semi-contradicted a statement, and covered
your butt <grin>. Ever thought of running for President?
>If they are, then they've been keeping it a REAL
>good secret : )
Ah... now that's a possibility <g> but seriously, I for one will thank
you for that reassurance above, and hold you personally responsible, up
to the point of posting a killer goldfish to you if it's proved that
you're wrong - disclaimer or no. ;)
>Magic is, and will hopefully remain, an important element of
>the Sixth World,
Fair enough. As far as I know, the majority of Shadowrun players and
GMs don't have a problem with magic in Shadowrun, (beyond the
occassional rule) they just vary the power of the game reflected in how
much magic is available.
>but there are lots of other areas Shadowrun will explore.
>The second edition of the Rigger Black Book is going to be full of
>techno-toys and goodies galore
Not the mysterious RBB2 again. :) Does this book really exist then?
Oh, sorry , silly question, you just said it did :)
While we seem to have grasped your attention, what are the chances of
FASA producing something similar to the map discussion we had on this
list a while back, deliniating borders, and giving us a rough idea what
the Shadowrun world actually looks like. It would halp a lot in
speculation, and I can't see something like that interfering with future
releases from FASA, for the simple reason, that the developers would
have a world to work with, but it would help us non-cartographic types a
_lot_ :)
>and some upcoming plots are going to focus
>much more on the non-magical side of things in SR much in the same way the
>Mob War! plotline did.
OK, that's good news as well, though cutting magic out too drastically
may be taken as a poor reflection as well. I do personally feel that
Shadowrun has had too much concentration on magic, especially as mages
etc are supposedly relatively rare. I seem to recall working out the
percentage population of mages, adepts etc a while ago. The game
modules and stuff have highlighted the presence of magic in a more
"present" manner, which I found strange, but not a problem as such. For
low powered games like the one's I run, it's relatively simple to turn a
magical threat into a more mundane problem.
>Stick around for the ride, chummers. It'll be a good one.
I hope so. I have and had every intention of sticking around, as do
others that share my opinions and attitudes towards some of Shadowrun's
previous development. I, and others were simply worried about the
increasing presence and evidence of an SR/ED merger. You've at least
temporarily put my fears to rest, but I'll be watching <grin>.
--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 03:11:39 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ullrich Jans <ujans@*******.POND.INKA.DE>
Subject: [OT] Re: When Spike's away, the children will play...
In-Reply-To: Czar Eggbert's message of Sun, 4 May 1997 03:25:47 -0500
Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU> writes:
[lots of quoted text snipped]
> I'm sorry but I Have to ....
> Where's the (OT) in YOUR subject heading? :):):)
Well.. and in yours? ;-)
BTW.. did you lose your cutters? ;-)
SCNR, Ulli
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 21:18:57 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 04:08 PM 5/7/97 -0800, Max Rible wrote these timeless words:
>>It's all a set up. it's gotta be. There's no damn way they could have
>>gotten rid of all the bugs, or even cleaned up Chi-Town to the point of it
>>being semi-safe.
>
>Why not? They've had years to study the problem, and plenty of incentive.
>The Bugs are vulnerable to lasers and insecticides. The Bugs are certainly
>insidious, but that doesn't mean that a massive effort couldn't purge enough
>of them to render Chi-Town habitable. (I expect there may be a few here
>and there, but I can't see why it wouldn't be possible to wipe out the
>vast majority of them through major effort.) Even in a world of
cyberzombies,
>blood magic, immortal elves, insect spirits, subliminal BTL broadcasts,
>and Great Dragons, I think it's a mistake to underestimate basic human
>ingenuity.
>
First off, I doubt FASA would let go of this good a plot thread, and
Several of the more recent modules and stuff have inted at a much greater
"infestation" than anyone realizes (No details as theya re major spoilers).
Even though the faces behind the stories have changed a bit since Bug City
came out (It'll be 4 years this summer, I think. maybe only 3. ), I can't
see FASA getting rid of Bug City altogether. Too much fun and horror.
On top of that, who's gonna trust anyone from the Zone (Bull and Johnny
aside:))?? The only way that area could ever be reopened would be the
extermination of all living things in the zone. After all, "Nuke 'em from
orbit" IS the only way to be sure...:] But the government is in a very
vulnerable and unknown situation with the bugs. They can't afford a
"mistake".
>>A) The bugs have gone into hiding, and are "playing dead". We know
from
>>threats and a few comments in Bug City that the bugs have been getting
>>progressivly smarter, and that the Cermak Bomb altered them somehow. I
>>think with a few good merges with smart people (There were a LOT of
>>Shadowrunners and Businessmen from the big corps that went missing in
>>Chicago) leading the bugs, they could easily have gone into hiding. How
>>many really good merges are out among the general population now waiting
>>for their time to strike?
>
>The Bugs aren't gone for good. The same forces that created them originally
>are still present. I also expect that those "good merges" with smart people
>probably managed to find their way *out* of the CZ long before the government
>could come in and crush the hives. Chicago may be relatively safe now--
>but where will they pop up next?
>
I doubt even Chicago is safe. After all, there has to be a reason they
appeared en masse in Chicago in the first place. My guess is an astral
portal or something similar in that location. FASA may be setting up Bug
City 2, though that could be silly unless done carefully.
>>B) Someone really high up in the Government and/or Ares is a bug, and is
>>responsible for the pull out of the military.
>
>I suspect that there have been quite a number of very competent security
>mages assigned to preventing this kind of occurrence, ever since someone
>discovered the first "good merge"...
>
Yeah, but the problem is, there's not supposed to be any way to detect the
really good merges. So you've got a good mage? He might be able to defeat
the merge if he notices it, but that's IF...
The bugs are one of the 6th worlds biggest threats, and, if run right, one
of the most fun scenarios to run and play in. I personally will be real
disappointed if they're just done away with...
Bull
--
Now the Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
NEW HOME PAGE!: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
"The best Ork Decker you never met"
-Me, in the upcoming "Target: UCAS" Shadowrun Sourcebook!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 01:29:57 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970507102039.0094e470@******.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <3.0.32.19970507102039.0094e470@******.ba.best.com>, Max
Rible <slothman@*********.ORG> rambled on endlessly about Bug
Extermination: How Did They Do That?
>So how do you think they managed to clear out enough of the Bugs from Chicago
>that it's safe to reopen the city?
They asked the bugs very nicely, if they could go home so that the human
race could have it's city back.
The bugs, being nice kind considered critters, all agreed and left for
another dimension, promising not to return, or leave any friends behind
who might cause trouble.
</sarcasm>
--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 01:16:32 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Runnersºd Tenants?
In-Reply-To: <199705071239.IAA04889@****.abts.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <199705071239.IAA04889@****.abts.net>, Shaun Sides
<arch@****.ABTS.NET> rambled on endlessly about Runnersºd Tenants?
>Date: 6 May 97 Time: 19:44
>Subject: Re: Runnersºd Tenants?
>
>TO: NightLife
>
>> Glad you don't use any of the Nerps, or Nagee compliations or the
>> rest of it. But I use some of the for the simple fact that fasa
>> doesn't have a lot of gerneral equipment written up.
>
>One question for you or anyone else: Do you allow the use of
>anything from the net/web, or do you specify items from the resources
>available on the net/web as acceptable for your game?
>
If it's on the net, or in a book, then as far as I'm concerned the
players can have it. This includes converted stuff from other games,
like powered armour and such like. There was a time a while back, when
my bunch of psycho's complained they didn't have enough to choose from,
now they have more than enough... <g>
Surprisingly, they are well self moderated, and for all the munchy stuff
that's in the books, they've not bothered with it, it's there if they
ever have sufficient funds, or sufficient need. With other gamers at the
club, I savagely limit what's available as the little oiks will snap up
everything in sight. Normally for club play, it's SSC and Main book.
For my private players, anything goes. Favouritism? yeah, but I trust
my bunch to be sensible. I've seen first hand what the club bunch get up
to.
--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 01:35:34 GMT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lars Richard Olsen <larsols@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: Stupid 2 gun rule
In-Reply-To: <199705080006.RAA15811@*****.oce.orst.edu> (message from Brett
Barksdale on Wed, 7 May 1997 17:06:34 -0700)
On Wed, 7 May 1997 17:06:34 -0700, Brett Barksdale <brett@***.ORST.EDU> said:
>> I've seen that a lot of people refuse to let players use one gun in
>> each hand. Now, 60 years into the future, when you have lasers,
>> matrix and wireds, how hard would it be for a smartlink in each hand,
>> connected to your brain or whatever, to direct the fire at one target.
>>
>> I'm not talking about shooting at two separate targets, but when you
>> shoot at only one, how hard is that to fix, compared to plugging the
>> freaking matrix to your brain?
> A lot of the refusals by some of us to allow our players to do certain
> things has little to do with "realism" and everything to do with game
> balance. Even if something makes sense, if the rules or system around it
> are unbalanced, you /don't/ allow it in your game.
> There's nothing wrong with allowing players to use a gun in each hand.
> However, there is something wrong if both:
ah...thank you :)
> (a) It gives some tactical advantage to the player (extra damage or lower
> target numbers) without some disadvantage to balance it.
It looks cooler, and a really large number of runners want to do that,
but can't because of strange rules that really try to cover a way to
do double damage.
So, why not make is cost plentymuch, and give them the bonus, and
subtract a fair bit of essence, that should do it.
> and
> (b) It has easy availability.
And make it hard to get..
> To me, "two fisted" doesn't really add anything to the game, so I don't
> bother with it.
But remember, at many covers of the FASA books, the runners do use two
weapons...(not that i take cover-art for canon but...)
-lars
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 20:39:18 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Q (not from Star Trek)" <Scott.E.Meyer@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Astral Aura, How Far from the Body?
In-Reply-To: <199705080020.KAA02626@*****.cynergy.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 7 May 1997, Ray & Tamara wrote:
> > Either the aura extends the same distance for all types of
> > people, and that it's the colour or quality of the aura that is
> > different for each type of person.
> >
> > My second line of thought is that the aura extends further from
> > your body as you move from type A to D. There would still be a
> > quality difference in the auras.
>
> I'd have to say that I think that the only difference with aura would be
> 'colour' etc, no the actual difference in size. If auras were different
> distances from the body depending on the magic power level of the person, I
> think it would have been mentioned somewhere along the line. As it is they
> just make fairly broad comments about appearance, not size.
Isn't it generally accepted that mages' auras are brighter than mundane
auras? If they are brighter, then they illuminate a larger area, thus
appearing larger. It seems to me that a brighter lightbulb, regardless of
its size, always appears larger than a dimmer one. I don't know, it just
looks that way to me.
-Q
---------------------------------------
I dislike Windows95 for the same reason people dislike New Coke
It tastes disgustingly like Pepsi.
Scott "Q" Meyer
Scott.E.Meyer@*******.edu
http://johnh.wheaton.edu/~smeyer
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 21:53:49 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Peter David Boddy <pdboddy@****.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Re: Stupid 2 gun rule
In-Reply-To: <199705080135.22464.dori@***.uio.no>; from "Lars Richard
Olsen"
at May 8, 97 1:35 am
Ahhh, the two gun rule...wheeee, the fun I have had with this over the
years.
Having a smartlink in each hand might be a good idea (if you have no need
for half a point of essence for anything else), if one or the other hand
is injured, you have a good one to turn to. Now, using both at the same
time, might cause problems, especially if you are trying to shoot at
different targets. The way I see it, add to the target number, making
it harder to hit. Now, of course, you have to consider what kind of
weapon you are trying to shoot. Two fisted pistols, maybe machine pistols
or even the Savalette, could be done. Twin sub-machine guns, probably not
easily (unless you're a troll), forget trying twin light machine guns.
The best idea for trying to use twin smartlinks would be to get the
targeting computer, which means you are going to be a good shot with a
gun, but you're not going to have much else in the way of cyberware.
Hehehhehe, now consider Cyberpunk 2020, where you can have two extra arms
attached...yes, I have tried firing four pistols at once, and I have to
tell ya, my character threw a lot of lead downwind, but didn't hit much.
The enemy kept his head down though....
If you want to shoot a lot of bullets, and hit lots of targets, make a
munchy troll, and carry a minigun... =).
Pete
Pete aka Spitfire
Test your might...
at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/8920/index.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter David Boddy
Carleton University
Email address: pdboddy@****.carleton.ca
Email address: bx955@*******.carleton.ca
----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 22:19:05 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Who killed Dunk?
On Wed, 7 May 1997 16:51:43 -0500 James Paulsen <lowfyr@***********.COM>
writes:
>I am sure this has been addressed in recent posts, so please don't thwap
>me for bringing it up, my server dumped a bunch of mail :)
Uhh...Okay:) But just this once:):)
>I was just wondering if anybody had determined who killed Dunk in their
>own world--not the FASA universe.
What would you say if I don't know? After recent re-examination of my
thoughts on this topic, I really have absolutely no idea, though, what if
it's Lofwyr? He obviously wanted the Jewel of Memory (exactly what it is
is unclear, but he wanted it _bad_, the way discussion in D's Secrets
seemed to be talking). The fact is, any one of a number of groups could
have been sufficiently motivated, and a greatly smaller group
sufficiently capable (Knight, the Azzies, Lofwyr, the other great
dragons, the EI, the Horrors, UCAS govt, Humanis, the bugs...Who knows?
Perhaps some totally new group)
>I hadn't any idea when they would
>officially reveal it, so I went ahead and created my own scenario that
>has been heavily linked to my long term campaign and story-line.
Have fun with it. I guess I'll be waiting to see what FASA says, though.
--
-Canthros
And ye shall know the truth, and lobo1@****.com
the truth shall set you free. canthros1@***.com
--John 8:32, KJV
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 02:38:54 GMT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lars Richard Olsen <larsols@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: Stupid 2 gun rule
In-Reply-To: <199705080153.VAA22151@********.carleton.ca> (message from Peter
David Boddy on Wed, 7 May 1997 21:53:49 EDT)
On Wed, 7 May 1997 21:53:49 EDT, Peter David Boddy <pdboddy@****.CARLETON.CA> said:
> Ahhh, the two gun rule...wheeee, the fun I have had with this over the
> years.
> Having a smartlink in each hand might be a good idea (if you have no need
> for half a point of essence for anything else), if one or the other hand
> is injured, you have a good one to turn to. Now, using both at the same
> time, might cause problems, especially if you are trying to shoot at
> different targets. The way I see it, add to the target number, making
> it harder to hit. Now, of course, you have to consider what kind of
> weapon you are trying to shoot. Two fisted pistols, maybe machine pistols
> or even the Savalette, could be done. Twin sub-machine guns, probably not
> easily (unless you're a troll), forget trying twin light machine guns.
> The best idea for trying to use twin smartlinks would be to get the
> targeting computer, which means you are going to be a good shot with a
> gun, but you're not going to have much else in the way of cyberware.
Well, I know this has been a hot topic, but if you study what I
actually wrote, you'll see that I only talk about fireing at one
target. (not that I don't think a master gunfighter can't hit two
separate targets :)
> Hehehhehe, now consider Cyberpunk 2020, where you can have two extra arms
> attached...yes, I have tried firing four pistols at once, and I have to
> tell ya, my character threw a lot of lead downwind, but didn't hit much.
> The enemy kept his head down though....
Spare me...:)
> If you want to shoot a lot of bullets, and hit lots of targets, make a
> munchy troll, and carry a minigun... =).
I really would like people to agree that shooting with two guns at one
target is not as preposterous as some want it to be. Some present
ridiculus reasons for it not to be feasable, while the real reason is
just to prevent munchkinism. I only want it to be possible, cuz it
looks really cool :)
-lars
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 21:46:07 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Boyd Stephen Smith, Jr." <gilmeth@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Number of House Rules
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
From: Gurth [SMTP:gurth@******.NL]
Subject: Number of House Rules
| I don't use them at all. Ambidexterity feels too much like an FRPG =
thing
| to me, since I've never met anyone IRL who could show me true
| ambidexterity...
My mother is completely ambidextrous. She can write with both hands. She =
can write mirror letters with both hands, she can do anything with one =
hand as well as she can do it with the other. Admittedly, she "trained" =
in it. She put a bit of work in it so, maybe you would add a special =
skill called ambidexterity.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 21:56:32 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Q (not from Star Trek)" <Scott.E.Meyer@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Number of House Rules
In-Reply-To: <01BC5B30.146A4D40@***********.lr.anc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 7 May 1997, Boyd Stephen Smith, Jr. wrote:
> From: Gurth [SMTP:gurth@******.NL]
> Subject: Number of House Rules
>
> | I don't use them at all. Ambidexterity feels too much like an FRPG thing
> | to me, since I've never met anyone IRL who could show me true
> | ambidexterity...
>
> My mother is completely ambidextrous. She can write with both hands. She
can write mirror letters with both hands, she can do anything with one hand
as well as she can do it with the other. Admittedly, she "trained" in it.
She put a bit of work in it so, maybe you would add a special skill called
ambidexterity.
>
which is exactly what FOF does.
I have a cousin like that, too, only he's completely ambidextrous, he
didn't train for it. I remember when he was learning to write, he'd write
with one hand until it got tired, then switch to the other.
(btw, your mailer is sending your messages in one long line)
-Q
---------------------------------------
I dislike Windows95 for the same reason people dislike New Coke
It tastes disgustingly like Pepsi.
Scott "Q" Meyer
Scott.E.Meyer@*******.edu
http://johnh.wheaton.edu/~smeyer
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 22:58:42 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim P Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Number of Houser Rules
On Wed, 7 May 1997 07:29:51 -0600 David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
writes:
>Another good point. I guess I've played way to much AD$D. Maybe
>make it a 0.5 cost PA ability with the only benefit gained is no
>offhand modifier, but recoil still stacks up as per your example.
Isn't it in Awakenings? Or am I just mis-remembering things again....
Either way it made an appearance in MY additions to Physad powers. And I
agree that all it'd do is remove the "offhand" modifier.
~Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 22:58:42 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim P Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Number of Houser Rules
On Wed, 7 May 1997 08:16:41 +0000 "Darrell L. Bowman"
[snip "double actions in a 3 second round is ludicrous"]
>Good point, but I'm trying to remember. I think that firing a
>burst fire from a pistol is a complex action. I know that it is
>from a Savalette, don't remember ahout any other right off the
>top of my head.
>
>Guys? is that the case?
>
>Any other burst fire would have to come from a rifle type
>weapon, which wouldn't matter if you were ambedextrious.
>Shooting two single shot weapons I wouldn't think would be a
>problem, but I might still apply a modifer to the target for the
>purpose of trying to aim two weapons..
>
Is there a ruling in SR for having to split your skill dice for firing
with both hands simultaneously? If not you could easily implement one.
If you want to make two simultaneous shots with two guns, more power to
ya... you just have to do them both using only one set of skill/pool
dice, plus the above penalty, and possibly only half your strength for
recoil purposes for each gun, etc...
~Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 22:58:42 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim P Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Unconcious
On Wed, 7 May 1997 11:30:51 -0400 Tuvyah@***.COM writes:
>Shane Courtrille wrote:
>
>>>If a mage goes unconcious is there a risk of losing control of a
>>>spirit or elemental? I think I've read something about that
>somewhere... but I don't remember and I can't find anything >>about
>it.
>
>And Gurth wrote:
>>>This rule applies only to allies, see page 72 of the Grimoire -- an
ally
>>>whose Force exceeds the magician's Charisma may attempt to go free
>>>whenever the magician is unconscious from wounds, fatigue, Drain, etc.
>>>Otherwise, it may only try this when the magician is dying (has
physical overflow).
>
>P. 139 of the SRII manual: "If the drain knocks the shaman unconscious,
the
>spirit departs."
>
>And p. 140 of the SRII manual: "If drain knocks the mage unconscious,
the
>spirit escapes free and uncontrolled."
Don't those sections refer to SUMMONING the spirit? I think the original
question was just about general usage.
Joe Mage has his elemental floating around frying the strike team when he
goes down from the big (are there any other kinds?) troll with the club
(stun damage... the troll was holding back). What happens to the
elemental now?
~Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 22:58:42 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim P Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Paranormals
On Wed, 7 May 1997 13:25:31 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>Good idea, except that SRI, and therefore PAoNA, didn't _have_ hardened
>armor -- it was introduced in SRII, and the sourcebook updates section
>gives hardened armor ratings for all the PAoNA critters that should have
>it. Tripling it isn't necessary.
IIRC the updates section only mentions which critters HAVE hardened
armor. SRI listed armor ratings for the critters that had armor, it's
just in SRII where a distinction between conventional (ballistic/impact)
armor and Hardened Armor is made. But then I don't have a copy of the
book handy so I can't really check.....
<flash of insight>
I do however have copies of PAoNA and PAoE (which has a complete listing
of *all* the critters' stats in SRII format.
It seems I was wrong (but I don't care 'cause my package passed the test
program with flying colors so I don't have to do a major overhaul and I
can turn it in on time!!). However, after persusing several critters
with armor ratings, it seems that all the SRI values for armor were
doubled for SRII. This incidently makes a Juggernaut go from being on
par armorwise with a Banshee to being WAAAAAY inferior. (4 => 8, versus a
banshee's 6 => 18). If you really wanted to up critter armor ratings,
you could just increase their SRII values by 50%. That would bring them
up to the same level relative to vehicular ratings from SRI.
~Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 22:58:43 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim P Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Paranormals
On Wed, 7 May 1997 19:03:17 +0100 "Simon T. Sailer" writes:
>Yes, I know the advantages of combat drugs. But no way will this work
>for animals. Cybering animals is out of question for me (except for
>very rare occations...special con 'experiments')
>Now to the drugs... It might be possible to use them on soldiers,
>since they can take a dose when the rumble starts. But animals can't,
>so they have to be kept under constant drug influence. Guess they
>would die after a few days... Can you imagine the costs?
Constant drug influence? If the corp is shelling out that much money to
have paranormals, and then juice them up with combat drugs, why couldn't
they spend a few extra nuyen and rig them up with radio controlled
injection collars or something. Or wired to get triggered when ever
there is an adrenalin rush (only a minor essence loss)... or even better
just have some bio put in... I imagine that SOMEONE has thought of
producing bioware for animals, and having it "test run" on which ever
corp the runners happen to be hitting next. Paisma with an adrenal pump,
pain-editor, synaptic accelerator, etc. anyone?
[...]
>And corps don't spend more money on security than on research.
Unless, of course their security IS research.
~Tim
