From:	Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject:	Re: [SR3] Drain
Date:	Fri, 4 Jul 1997 01:51:38 +0000

Bruce Nagel wrote:
> > On the other hand, mages' are supposed to be versatile rather than
> > specialists;
> Why? No more than sammies are specialists, some learn demolitions, stealth,
> and skills for defeating security, etc. Talking about what mages are
> 'supposed' to be is a problem, imo.

Okay. Mages are not restricted much in spells, so most mages can take
a wide selection of spells. In addition, buying new spells,
especially at moderate force, is extremely cheap. Therefore they
usually end up with a wide selection of spells, which, unless the
mage takes a lot of identical spells, makes him versatile. Now, they
do not have to do this, but they *can* so very easily do this that
it is reasonable for the sake of this discussion to assume they will
do so. That's why.

> Ah yes, the dreaded spell locks. Either give them reasons to be careful
> leaving their locked spells on (opposing mages ansd spirits), they're easy to
> break and expensive, or disallow them. This still doesn't make the
> _low_spell_drain_ a problem.
It's a matter of balance we're speaking of, remember? And a lot of
things enter into this discussion. It seems the conclusion will then
be wether drain should be F or F/2. And spell locks, and quickenings,
enter the picture here.

> > An option would be to have each mage choose one area of spells
> > where he takes F/2 drain, and F drain in the rest.. :)
> Bleh... don't care for this tack. What about the guy who wants to be good at
> both areas his totem gives him advantages for (say, Illusion and Detection or
> something)? Again, you're turning mages into a specific type of thing: "I'm a
> healer, Bob's the artillery of the group".
Notice the smiley? It's not a serious suggestion.

>
> > 'pet peeve spells'
> > Incr. reaction +1 & +3 is identical once on a spell lock. No reason
> > to ever use +1. (Same goes with the other attribute spells).
> If you use it on a spell lock. Could always use it on someone else in the
> group who needs a reflex boost... I won't repeat the solution to spell locks.
Well, most of them have incompatiblle reflex boosts allready, so that
is a rare use, to put it mildly. And even then, why use +1? It's cast
at very low force anyway, so there's no drain almost no matter what.


> > Fix: Bonding/quickening cost is multiplied by drain level. (1,2,3,4)
> > (As if mages didn't have enough karma drains.. tough luck.).
> And Quickened spells can be killed in Astral, too, send a spirit to harry the
> mage's Quickenings, he gets to decide to face you or the spirit...
As long as he can make a quickening a fair bit tougher than any
spirit, I do not see the point. And spells and constructs are not
susceptible to outnumbering, so sending a horde of watchers only gets
a horde of watchers killed.


> > Sleep: Triple whammy: Cheap drain, takes out enemies
> > effectively, and you can also interrogate the suckers afterwards.
> Perhaps a little broken. Fix the few broken spells. Why change the whole
> Drain system to fix a few problems that aren't _in_ the drain section of the
> rules?
I should have stated more clearly that this is part of the things I
would like fixed about third edition, not drain itself.
(A question which arose out of that discussion).

> > Damaging manipulations - not enough bang for the buck.
> > (Resisted against lower target numbers and usually more dice.. and
> > also a lot more drain, makes these spells underpowered compared to
> > their drain.)
>
> > Should it be fixed? No, they shouldn't be as powerful as combat
> > spells.
> Why not? I'd like to hear the reasoning why they 'shouldn't' be as powerful as
> Combat Spells. They're different, they do slightly different things, they have
> advantages and disadvantages, and I like that.

Again, versatility. You can have elemental adepts. If elemental
(earth) adepts could cast combat spells as effective as an elemental
(fire) adept, in addition to all the other manipulation spells
available, then there is no reason to create elemental fire adepts. I
prefer things to be at least somewhat balanced, and no 'class'
totally uninteresting.



Guys, the listserv appears to be suffering from accute Drain
Dhiarreah...

--
Fade

"It's better to burn out, than to fade away!"