Logs for ShadowRN and Associated Mailing Lists

From:	Unknown sender
Subject:	None
Date:	Unknown time and date

|
|| ---mARCiN sERkIES wrote:
||
|| <snip>
||
|| I just wanted to let you know, your messages are coming through as RTF
|| attachments. I have to go into (R)eply just to read them. Don't know
|| if anyone else has the same issue.
|
|Actually they have been coming through fine for me...hmmmmm

<aol>

ME TOO

</aol>

Well.... sort of. They *are* MIME encoded, but elm shows them up OK.
(I just can't skip to the next when it's MIME....)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:32:12 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: 1st Ed and OOP Modules
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:47 PM 7/8/97 -0700, Loki wrote these timeless words:

>I'd give two thumbs way up for:
>
>DNA/DOA
>Maria Mercurial
>Bottled Demon
>
>And definitely the one and only original *Harlequin*
>
All very good modules, and ones that I know own <grin>

Of course, I also have to give my vote to the "Early Adventures or our
Insect pal's", aka Queen Euphoria and United Brotherhood.

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:48:37 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "David J. Browne Jr" <Ronin55444@***.COM>
Subject: Re: SR/ED ties (slight rant)

In a message dated 97-07-07 22:41:37 EDT, you write:

<< Ya know Spike you're alot like the Spanish Inquisition in that regard.

I didn't expect the spanish inquisition......
>>

Nooooo one expects the Spanish Inquisition..... Our Main Weapon is
Shadowrun....
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:49:04 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "David J. Browne Jr" <Ronin55444@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells

In a message dated 97-07-08 01:57:40 EDT, you write:

<< Yup yup yup...wax the mage is still a good street rule...ya never know
what
those rascals are gonna do. Sammies are at least marginally predictable.

-Caric >>

I love to play "Page the Mage"..... My wife (Who plays a Mage all the time)
finnally caught on to that trick and now consistantly throws 3 -4 force and
manages to keep her backside "Lead Free"..... On the other hand.... two
other guys who play upon occasion still haven't caught on }:) .... Life is
good

Dave
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 19:50:26 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Hartmann <hartmann@***********.M.EUNET.DE>
Subject: Re: (Skill+Att)/2
In-Reply-To: <199707091612.KAA16845@******>

On 9 Jul 97 at 10:12, David Buehrer wrote:

> I'd like to see most skills linked to attributes. With this system
> you have two types of skills, standard and stand-alone. Standard
> skills have a link attribute, stand-alone skills don't.
[...]
> I know that with Steve's SRIII stuff you may not have time to respond
> to this :), but I'd really like to know if there's any holes in this.

Munchies would start to have alot of linked skills at 1 and the
attribute raised to where-ever.
Like:

Quickness: 11 (not too hard to achieve)
Even with only a skill at 1 you get 6 dice. A good result for just
one skill point...

bye mike
---
Download SRCG now: http://manowar.viva-tv.de/srcg
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 11:49:18 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: SR/ED ties (slight rant)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

| << Ya know Spike you're alot like the Spanish Inquisition in that regard.
|
| I didn't expect the spanish inquisition......
| >>
|
| Nooooo one expects the Spanish Inquisition..... Our Main Weapon is
| Shadowrun....

Ok ok ok our two main weapons are Shadowrun and the big comfy chair...no
wait...

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 12:29:42 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: (Skill+Att)/2
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

---David Buehrer wrote:
>
> I would also like to add that I feel that standard skills should have
> a maximum rating equal to their linked skill x1.5. Stand-alone
> skills would not have a maximum.

One of the drawbacks would be here. I'm assuming you mean a maximum of
1.5x the linked attribute. If you do that, racial maximums are really
going to get in the way. For example a Troll could never become as
good at firearms as a Human, and a Human could never get a higher
Negotiation than an Elf. See what I'm pointing out?

> And a magician would not be able to learn a spell with a Force
> greater than his Magic Theory x1.5.

We already have a house rule that a character can't start with a spell
force higher than Magical Theory, don't know if I'd want to limit it
once game play started. Magical Theory already factor into how many
dice they roll to learn the spell.

> I know that with Steve's SRIII stuff you may not have time to respond
> to this :), but I'd really like to know if there's any holes in this.

There's two comments I had right off...

===
@>--,--'--- Loki

Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/

"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 15:10:55 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Munchkins
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Cool, I've been back less than a month and all my fave threads are showing up...

In the spectrum of player power levels, the extremes are represented by
these two basic player archetypes...

1) tragically impaired gamer
2) power-gamer

Now, "tragically impaired gamers" are only happy when they're playing a
character who has loads of flaws and derangements and as few useful skills
as possible. Usually this is done in the name of roleplaying, but often
it's just some RP-masochism thing that rarely leads to any advancements in
roleplaying.

"Power gamers" are the sort who sit down and crunch numbers and work
everything within the rules of the game until they create a character of
frightening ability. The key part there is "within the rules of the game".
Power gamers like things like heavy military armor even though they're
playing in a street-level campaign. Legal, but damnably annoying.

Both types are represented to carying degrees in each gamer. Some balance
the two, others cling to their end of the spectrum, most fall a shade to one
side or the other. Roleplaying can be done equally well and equally poorly
by anyone at any point in the gaming spectrum, how well or poorly one
chooses to crunch his numbers and choose his toys has no effect therein.

There's also a third type of gamer, but it doesn't fit on the spectrum at
all. It's the munchkin. Munchkins are characterized by their desire to
have ungodly ability at little-to-no cost even if it means making up their
own rules to do so and even if it flies in the face of game conventions.

Munchkins build spells like "ultimate death blast" which does (F x 2)D
damage in a radius equal to the cube of (magic rating x essence) but only
effects those that he wants it to and it has abuilt-in clairvoyance and
x-ray vision so he can see all targets in the radius and decide who gets
hit. It is resisted only by spending karma pool and does (F/6)L drain.
They also build cyberware goodies like "move-like-gods" which gives you 10D6
for initiative and an extra 40 to your reaction, but it's alien-made so it
doesn't cost any essence. They also create weapons like "portable mass
driver" and "particle beam pistol" and "sword of
Aztlaner-slaying", but I
don't think I really need to go into these as the munchkin's ways should be
readily apparent by now.

So why didn't I put the munchkin in the spectrum? Because it takes two to
make a munchkin. First, a player has to want to go munchy. Second, a GM
has to let him do it. There are only two other ways that munchkinism can
exist...

1) The gamer never sees anyone and just plays by himself all day in some
dark corner butchering the rules and finding entertainment in that somehow.
2) The gamer is a GM and he will eventually become as #1 when his players
get tired of dying at the hands of the GM's newest toys two or three times
per game session.

Thankfully, these ways keep munchkins out of the gaming populace (except at
conventions *shudder*). Sometimes munchkins will glom onto a great munchkin
king and start an entirely munchkinous game. Have pity on those poor souls
for they know not what they do. Every time a munchkin dances his twisted
little jig, a part of a game dies. The more munchkins that dance on a game,
the more the game dies until you don't even want to look at the game anymore
even if you were never a munchkin yourself. Need evidence?

AD&D, anyone?
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 15:11:34 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SRIII] Munchkin Proofing
In-Reply-To: <199707091637.KAA19710@******>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I feel I must agree with David Buehrer. It is not FASA's responsibility
to come up with a system that is so regimented so that even the most
clever munchkin can't abuse it. I thnik that it is the GM's (and the
other players) responsibility to set the parameters on their game. If
they want to make a group of killing machines and run around arcologies
blowing away "bad guys" then more power to them. I'll never play with
that group, because I would find that horribly boring after the first 20
minutes. I like balanced "runs" that have a mixture of problem solving,
role, and roll playing, and a little violence. When I GM I try to do the
same thing.

So in summary, let FASA have a little breathing space.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:18:54 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: (Skill+Att)/2
In-Reply-To: <199707091851.MAA03261@******> from "Mike Hartmann" at Jul
9,
97 07:50:26 pm
Content-Type: text

Mike Hartmann wrote:
|
| Munchies would start to have alot of linked skills at 1 and the
| attribute raised to where-ever.
| Like:
|
| Quickness: 11 (not too hard to achieve)
| Even with only a skill at 1 you get 6 dice. A good result for just
| one skill point...

Ouch. I forgot all about cyberware. Hm... I'm gonna have to work on
this one :)

Thanks.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
Observe your co-worker's interaction with the computer mouse. If he
is using it to manipulate the cursor, he's human. If he's using it
as a foot pedal, he's your boss.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:24:23 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: (Skill+Att)/2
In-Reply-To: <199707091932.NAA06883@******> from "Loki" at Jul 9,
97 12:29:42 pm
Content-Type: text

Loki wrote:
|
| One of the drawbacks would be here. I'm assuming you mean a maximum of
| 1.5x the linked attribute. If you do that, racial maximums are really
| going to get in the way. For example a Troll could never become as
| good at firearms as a Human, and a Human could never get a higher
| Negotiation than an Elf. See what I'm pointing out?

Oi. I get the feeling that this idea is deader than roadkill in July
(Northern Hemisphere). Ah well, nothing ventured, nothing gained :)

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
Observe your co-worker's interaction with the computer mouse. If he
is using it to manipulate the cursor, he's human. If he's using it
as a foot pedal, he's your boss.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:40:37 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: (SR3)Variable staging
In-Reply-To: <199707091757.LAA28120@******> from "Jackson, Hank" at Jul
9,
97 02:01:30 pm
Content-Type: text

Jackson, Hank wrote:
|
| To throw my idea on the table, Why not vary the staging based on the
| damage to be resisted. Deadly required 2 successes to stage down,
| Serious requires 3, Moderate requires 4 and Light requires 5. This
| appears extreme, though a more reasonable system could be created.

So Deadly to Serious, 2 successes; Serious to Moderate, 3; Moderate
to Light 4; Light to Nothing 5; for a total of 14 successes if it's a
Deadly wound?

You're better off changing the staging to 3. That's just way to
complicated. And why would a Light be harder to resist than a Deadly
wound? A better way would be to stage damage up or down one *box*
per success. That way dropping a Deadly to Serious requires 4
successes, Serious to Moderate 3, Moderate to Light 2, Light to
Nothing 1, but since it's on a box-by-box basis you don't have to
keep track of variable staging. Damage becomes a little more
variable, those 2 added successes make things more challenging, and
you don't have to worry about wasted successes (rolling 7 successes
when resisting a Deadly wound).

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
Observe your co-worker's interaction with the computer mouse. If he
is using it to manipulate the cursor, he's human. If he's using it
as a foot pedal, he's your boss.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:37:02 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: (Skill+Att)/2
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

| Loki wrote:
| |
| | One of the drawbacks would be here. I'm assuming you mean a maximum of
| | 1.5x the linked attribute. If you do that, racial maximums are really
| | going to get in the way. For example a Troll could never become as
| | good at firearms as a Human, and a Human could never get a higher
| | Negotiation than an Elf. See what I'm pointing out?
|
| Oi. I get the feeling that this idea is deader than roadkill in July
| (Northern Hemisphere). Ah well, nothing ventured, nothing gained :)

Keep working on it i'm sure that there is a way to set it up the way you
want.

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 23:06:00 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mARCiN sERkIES <yasiu@******.COM>
Subject: books again
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"

It`s me again with question about books... At friday i`m going to drive 300km to buy few
books. First that i`m sure i`ll buy is SR - second edition. Next are StreetSamCatalog,
SeattleSourcebook. All of them are used but in one piece... so should i buy all of them???
and next i can get cybertechnology and germany sourcebook so again should i have them???

<center>]-[ yASiU ]-[ aKa mARCiN sERkIES ]-[ e-MAiL - yasiu@******.com
]-[ </center>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 11:37:23 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mARCiN sERkIES <yasiu@******.COM>
Subject: Re: For mARCiN sERkIES [OT] (was Re: SHADOWRUN 3RD EDITION!)
In-Reply-To: <19970709032610.2953.rocketmail@*****.rocketmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"

At 20:26 8.07.97 -0700, you wrote:

>I just wanted to let you know, your messages are coming through as RTF

>attachments. I have to go into (R)eply just to read them. Don't know

>if anyone else has the same issue.

No... i think not... it`s problem only with you... i`ll check config of my mailer... maybe
something is set wrong here....

QUESTION: ANY1 HAVE SIMILIAR PROBLEM ???

<center>]-[ yASiU ]-[ aKa mARCiN sERkIES ]-[ e-MAiL - yasiu@******.com
]-[ </center>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 17:16:53 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@*****.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: For mARCiN sERkIES [OT] (was Re: SHADOWRUN 3RD EDITION!)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970709113723.006fc3b8@******.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

On 9 Jul 97 at 11:37, mARCiN sERkIES wrote:

> QUESTION: ANY1 HAVE SIMILIAR PROBLEM ???

Well, I don't know what my mailer is doing behind the scenes, but I
receive your messages as one long line. But quoted text appears ok.
Weird.

--
=DREKHEAD========================================================
drekhead@***.net --- http://users.aol.com/drekhead/home.html ---
=================================================================
=================================================================
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot
stomping on a human face...forever. -George Orwell
=================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 22:17:28 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: For mARCiN sERkIES [OT] (was Re: SHADOWRUN 3RD EDITION!)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970709113723.006fc3b8@******.com> from "mARCiN
sERkIES" at Jul 9, 97 11:37:23 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

|
|At 20:26 8.07.97 -0700, you wrote:
|
|>I just wanted to let you know, your messages are coming through as RTF
|
|>attachments. I have to go into (R)eply just to read them. Don't know
|
|>if anyone else has the same issue.
|
|
|No... i think not... it`s problem only with you... i`ll check config of my mailer...
maybe something is set wrong here....

It is. My mailer can decode RTF automatically, so it seems, but you should
only be sending pure ASCII out anyway....

|
|QUESTION: ANY1 HAVE SIMILIAR PROBLEM ???

I don't have a problem, but you ARE sending RTF.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 17:15:21 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: books again
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 11:06 PM 7/9/97 +0200, mARCiN sERkIES wrote these timeless words:
>It`s me again with question about books... At friday i`m going to drive
300km to buy few books. First that i`m sure i`ll buy is SR - second
edition. Next are StreetSamCatalog, SeattleSourcebook. All of them are used
but in one piece... so should i buy all of them??? and next i can get
cybertechnology and germany sourcebook so again should i have them???
>
I find the Seattle Sourcebok to be VERY useful, and the SR2 book is a must.

SSC is a maybe. Nice book to have, and I wouldn;t turn down a copy,
especially if you can get it used anmd cheap, but all the basic info from
the SSC is in the 2nd ed. SR book, other than a few expanded rules, I think.

Cybertech is also very nice, but also not really necessary. But I wouldn't
turn down a copy...;]

Germany is probably the only one of the bunch that I would say not to
bother with. I didn;t find all that interesting, and unless you REALLY
want to set a game in Germany, it's a waste of time.

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 22:19:24 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: For mARCiN sERkIES [OT] (was Re: SHADOWRUN 3RD EDITION!)
In-Reply-To: <199707092113.RAA28576@www.ctghub.com>; from "Drekhead" at
Jul 9,
97 05:16:53 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

|
|On 9 Jul 97 at 11:37, mARCiN sERkIES wrote:
|
|> QUESTION: ANY1 HAVE SIMILIAR PROBLEM ???
|
|Well, I don't know what my mailer is doing behind the scenes, but I
|receive your messages as one long line. But quoted text appears ok.
|Weird.

With me, when I view it, it's wrapped OK, but when I enter the editor and
his text is quoted, it does the very long line thing.

It's his margins. SET THEM TO 75 CHARACTERS (ish)
No more than 80....

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:21:27 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Character Generation
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970709090815.00954950@********>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 09:08 7/9/97 -0500, you wrote:

>Under your view of things Adam, their shouldn't be any generation system at
>all. None. I mean, you make a character, and stats are totally
>unimportant, so why bother? But, if you do use stats (some of us peons
>surely will) they don't have to reflect your character.

'Under my view of things.'
Thats a hell of a lot for you to sum up from the 3 or 4 postings I've made
on this subject. Refrain from mis-quoting me. I never said there should
be 'no' character generation system, I said whichever one is used, it
should be standard throughout the campaign.
If you do allocate stats, of course they should reflect the character.
Otherwise, why bother allocating them?

Jake, mentioned in my last post, did get as far as picking priorities.
Magic - A, Attributes - B, Resources - C, Skills - D, Race - E
So he gets played according to that. He lives in an abandoned basement out
in renton with a few other street types, more for nessesity than the
companionship. He's fairly average with his attributes, not having any
outstanding ones, but due to the place he lives and the way he looks, he
has a low charisma. He can't drive a car and doesn't have enough money to
buy one anyways, so he takes public transportation most of the time. He
has the nessesary magic-tossing skills, but nothing extrodinary.

Making proper stats for Jake would probably take no more than 20-30 minutes
now, that I've played him and defined him a bit more.

>Well, as far as I can tell, you don't like any generation system because no
>matter what, stats don't matter, character does. And stats don't actually
>reflect what you can/can't do and anything about you at all.

Once again, you're expanding something I said into something I didn't say
at all. Does everything a character does need to be reflected by some sort
of stat?

>Go have fun with your character (which by mentioning I guess means the rest
>of us (or maybe just me?) are powergamers who don't really know how to
>roleplay, can I sit at your knee and learn, oh great one?) and the rest of
>us will go play Sr.

I'd rather you not sat at my knee, I just got out of the shower, and I'm
wearing my house coat. And, go play Sr, because I'm certainly a lowly
cretin, but hey, I'm having fun.

-Aj

--
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
"Can I have a cup of angst to go with my un-happy meal?" -- Hi & Lois
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:13:38 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Character Generation
In-Reply-To: <01IL0EWER1H29I4N75@******.acs.muohio.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 23:02 7/8/97 -0500, you wrote:
>> One of the reasons I give players 3 free skill points for a hobby skill is
>> to encourage diverse skills. Its nice to have a character that 'reads a
>> book from his library', instead of 'goes out to the bar to get a chick'.

>Umm, not even being the sort that goes to bars, let alone to pick up women,
>what's wrong with that sort of character? I mean, why not give them a
>'seduction' special skill? ;)

Nothings wrong with it, thats not exactly what I meant. In most games I've
run, when I say "Well guys, its 10pm, and you have a bit of free time until
you're supposed to pick up that package at 6am, what are you going to do?"
They say "Oh, we're gonna go to the bar and shoot pool, look for a chick or
two."
It was past the point of a stereotype.. and no matter how many times I had
the 'chicks' turn them down, they didn't get the message.

>> Isn't it wierd to have me contributing to actual threads? :) Third edition
>> seems to have everyone excited.
>That's a fact. :) We're all giddy with it.

And we still have 13 months to go...

-Aj
--
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
"Can I have a cup of angst to go with my un-happy meal?" -- Hi & Lois
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:45:08 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Physical Adpets, what do you play?
In-Reply-To: <199707090508.XAA28890@******.verinet.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 23:08 7/8/97 -0600, you wrote:
>> What are the advantages of playing one in SRII?
>
>The list is long (for both sides of this argument) and our friendly
>list owner is probably warming up his smiting rod as he reads this so
>I won't go into these yet again.

Friendly list owner.. hrm.. more likely Mark than me, I guess.
:)

-Adam

--
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
"Can I have a cup of angst to go with my un-happy meal?" -- Hi & Lois
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:20:25 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: For mARCiN sERkIES [OT] (was Re: SHADOWRUN 3RD EDITION!)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970709113723.006fc3b8@******.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 11:37 AM 7/9/97 +0200, you wrote:
>At 20:26 8.07.97 -0700, you wrote:
>>I just wanted to let you know, your messages are coming through as RTF
>>attachments. I have to go into (R)eply just to read them. Don't know
>>if anyone else has the same issue.
>
>No... i think not... it`s problem only with you... i`ll check config of my
>mailer... maybe something is set wrong here....
>
>QUESTION: ANY1 HAVE SIMILIAR PROBLEM ???

No problem as I am using Eudora as well, but you're sending text as
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"

>
/-justin@****.mcp.com----------------------jbell@****.mcp.com--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:13:17 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: books again
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

| It`s me again with question about books... At friday i`m going to drive
300km to buy few books. First that i`m sure i`ll buy is SR - second
edition. Next are StreetSamCatalog, SeattleSourcebook. All of them are used
but in one piece... so should i buy all of them??? and next i can get
cybertechnology and germany sourcebook so again should i have them???

Sounds good. Cybertech is good, but the Geramany sourcebook I would wait
on. Find out what language it is in...I hear bad things about the German
version. In fact I would forgo the seattle sourcebook in favor on the
grimoire definately.

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:33:46 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: cyberware and it's effects on the psyche and body
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

OK,

so what's the best way role play a sammie with .6 essence?

what sorts of effects on him can realistically be expected?

What long-term effects does this have on a body and psyche?

/-justin@****.mcp.com----------------------jbell@****.mcp.com--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:42:13 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: cyberware and it's effects on the psyche and body
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 16:33 7/9/97 -0500, Jaymz wrote:
>so what's the best way role play a sammie with .6 essence?
>
>what sorts of effects on him can realistically be expected?
>
>What long-term effects does this have on a body and psyche?

You may be interested in a page I have on this topic at
http://www.amurgsval.org/shadowrun/humanity.html ; there's an
interesting system at http://www.albany.net/~geenius/sanity.html as well.

--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "So, an Arisian, a Vorlon, and a knnn go into a tavern..." %%
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 15:45:40 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Loseke <mike@******.VERINET.COM>
Subject: Re: Physical Adpets, what do you play?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970709144508.0074a1a8@****.lis.ab.ca> from "Adam
J"
at Jul 9, 97 02:45:08 pm
Content-Type: text

Quoth Adam J:
>
> At 23:08 7/8/97 -0600, you wrote:
> >> What are the advantages of playing one in SRII?
> >
> >The list is long (for both sides of this argument) and our friendly
> >list owner is probably warming up his smiting rod as he reads this so
> >I won't go into these yet again.
>
> Friendly list owner.. hrm.. more likely Mark than me, I guess.
> :)

Merely a figure of speech, I assure you. :)

--
|
Mike Loseke | You never know how fluffy poodles are,
mike@*******.com | until you step in one.
|
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 18:11:18 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <agh60070@*******.cc.ucf.edu>
From: Jerry Hill <agh60070@*******.CC.UCF.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mysticism
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970709092640.00748000@********.co.za>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> are spirits? what is on the meta planes? Give magic users some

Well, much as many people here don't seem to like the WW system, if
you can browse through a copy of thier Umbra book (the Umbra being
the spiritual world of the Garou) there are some very nice metaplanes
in there. Now, I haven't re-read that book in quite some time, so
I'm not too sure of how (or if) they would fit into the SR universe
of astral and metaplanes neatly, but it seems like a great starting
place.

------------------------------------------------
Jerry Hill agh60070@*******.cc.ucf.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 18:33:43 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Fetish & Exclusive Spells (suggestions)

In a message dated 97-07-09 15:06:52 EDT, shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK (Paul
J. Adam) writes:

>
> I'll start by saying this needs to be done carefully to prevent
> powergamers from raping it, but I really like the idea.
>
> One of my great complaints about SR magic is the way that it can be
> reduced to killing a foe from a kilometre or more with a blink of the
> eye. I'd like to see magic demanding more mystery, more ritual, more
> strangeness: having to sketch complex runes, even if only in pencil on
> the sidewalk, to make a Clairvoyance spell work, for instance. Pulling
> down enough magic to kill a foe shouldn't be quite as casual as it can
> be in SR2.
>
>
I find that I have to agree with Steve and Paul on this one myself. I am not
certain that I agree with Paul's suggestion on drawing everything for every
spell, but perhaps drawing things out as part of a Geasa or a "make shift
fetish", then that might be really neat.

However, the concept of rules-raping by many players is going to be there.
If the design modifiers that Steve mentioned were to be utilized, as they
have been here for years now, then you have to make certain the player
understands that s/he has made a spell that -HAS- to have those conditions
met, or else it doesn't work at all, period, EOD.

The suggestions I would like to throw out into this arena/topic are as
follows:

-Fetish (Expendable Or Reusable) -1 Power
-Fetish Foci (Rating MUST equal force of spell) -2 Power
-Specific Spell Foci (Rating MUST equal force of spell) -1 Drain Category
-Power Foci (certain item) -1 Power
-Power Foci (Rating MUST equal force of spell) -1 Drain Category
-Specific Spell Power Foci (Rating MUST equal force of spell) -1 Drain
Category, -1 Power
-Rare/Exclusive Object (Artifact of Mundane Nature) -2 Power
-Rare/Exclusive Object (Artifact of Magical Nature) -1 Drain Category, -1
Power
-Extremely Rare/Powerful Object (True Anq of the Ainir (the Seven Sun Anqs),
a True Elder Sign, the Holy Grail, etcetera, etcetera...) -1 to -3 Drain
Category (GM Guidelines probably required)
-Specific Domain Group (Man, Land, Skies, Waters, Firmament) -1 Power
-Specific Domain Type (City, Field, River, Storm, Desert, etc.) -2 Power (or
-1 Drain Category)
-Specific Domain (City of Seattle, My Own Apartment/Lodge, etc.) -3 Power
-Conditional Geasa (Day/Night) -1 Power
-Conditional Geasa (Night's of the Full Moon, the High Noon of the Summer
Solstice, etc..) -1 Drain Category

That is just the beginning actually...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 18:35:41 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: sr/ed ties (Mestoph's Fate)

In a message dated 97-07-09 15:28:24 EDT, u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK (Spike)
writes:

>
> You seem to be obsessed with attention spans...
> You an American Schoolteacher or something....
>
> Over here on this side of the pond, our attention spans are fine, for the
> mooo ooo look, a butterfly...... Pretty
>
(Ruler tapping on the blackboard...) Spike, Spike,,, it's over here Spike...

Sorry, I'm not trying to sound obsessed, I'm just pointing things out from a
point of view other than a gamers...it is often required to understand the
goofed up economics and marketing stuff.
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 18:36:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: "Shadow" of an Apology (to Gurth- OT)

In a message dated 97-07-09 15:31:02 EDT, you write:

>
> They're also talking about making a spin-off series based on the
> rangers.....
> --
>
Yep, that they are...which would be cool...I hope they keep Jason Carter
(Marcus), his character is a blast...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 18:11:31 -0400
Reply-To: shergold@***********.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Shergold <shergold@***********.NET>
Subject: Re: cyberware and it's effects on the psyche and body
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Jaymz wrote:
>
> OK,
>
> so what's the best way role play a sammie with .6 essence?
>
> what sorts of effects on him can realistically be expected?
>
> What long-term effects does this have on a body and psyche?
>

Well I have a Sam with 0 essence and 6 B.I., she manages to hold it
together most of the time, but when under stress, she freaks out a little.
She somewhat hair trigger in the respect that she'll punch, shoot, chop,
etc. if startled the wrong way. Ususally she's kinda cold and under extreme
emontional wraps, trys not to get too emotional as bad things tend to
happen.
Long term effects is up to you and the GM, you in the respect of your
roleplaying abilities with regards to how the cyber affects the character's
mind, your GM in how it affects the body.
One thing that helped me with that character was the Hatchetman's <sp?> in
the beginning with Cybertech with regards to roleplaying. One note if the
cyber was recently required, bitch and moan about how hard it was the
relearn how to move and the way the world is now perceived, esp. with cyber
eyes. My character started off w/ the 0 essence at the beginning of the
game, but she didn't willingly choose all the cyber and stuff dropped into
her body, so affects her world view. When she was asked about why she
didn't get it removed is that it would take to long to get re-ajusted to a
normal meat body besides the extremely high cost of getting it removed and
essence reclaimation (if your GM allows it of course).
Hope my rambling helped.

SilverFire

"I merely chewed in self-defense."

-Draco the Dragon
"Dragonheart"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 18:59:43 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals

In a message dated 97-07-08 22:38:58 EDT, TalonMail@***.com (Steve Kenson)
writes:

>
> That said... here's another idea for the list to chew on. How about
setting
> the Drain for spellcasting at Force, but offering options spellcasters can
> use to reduce the Force for Drain purposes. This way, spell-slingers who
are
> prepared under ideal conditions have less Drain while characters throwing
> spells under more difficult conditions, where they can't use the various
> magical rituals, tend to take more Drain.
>
> RITUALS

Is the following material then using a term for "Real World Magic" Steve?
What you describe initially below sounds more like Conditional Geasa
(described more in the Awakenings Book).

> Normally, spellcasting requires the caster do nothing more than
concentrate
> on the desired effect to manipulate the astral forces and cast the spell.
A
> sorcerer can simply stare at a target and cause him to burst into flames
or
> turn into a toad. This sort of spellcasting is very tiring, however,
causing
> a great deal of Drain when casting high Force spells, so magical
characters
> have rituals, things they do to help focus their concentration and channel
> magical forces more easily. They help reduce the wear and tear on the
> spellcaster caused by Drain, allowing a character to cast more powerful
> spells more often for less Drain.
>
> When casting a spell, the caster chooses whether or not to apply any
rituals
> to it. Each ritual used in the spellcasting reduces the Force of the spell

> by
> one for the purpose of determining the Drain Code and for determining if
the
> Drain of the spell is Physical (wound) or Mental (fatigue) damage. The
> caster
> can still only cast the spell up to the maximum Force known and the
rituals
> do not affect the Spell Success Test in any way, only the Drain Resistance
> Test.
>
> Rituals cannot reduce the effective Force of a spell for Drain purposes
> below
> 1. Ritual modifiers are applied before Drain Code modifiers. If the final
> result is less than 2, the Drain Target Number is considered to be 2. For
> example, a Powerbolt spell has a Drain of +1S. If the spell is cast at
Force
> 5 with two rituals, the effective Force for Drain is reduced to 3. The
final
> Drain Code for the spell is (3+1) = 4S.
>
> Rituals can only be used while the spellcaster is in physical form (
> including
> while using astral perception) because they rely on physical things and
> actions. Astrally projecting characters are made up of nothing more than
> Magic and Willpower and must use only those to resist Drain for any spells
> cast in astral form.
>
> The following rituals can be used for spellcasting. Shadowrun players are
> free to come up with new rituals for their magical characters but, as
always,
>
> the gamemaster has final say on whether or not any ritual is appropriate
for
> the campaign.
>
> Exclusive
> The spell with this ritual applied cannot be cast in combination with any
> other spell and the caster cannot maintain other spells or use other
magical
> skills while casting or sustaining this spell.

I have long since had this one argued over by more than a couple dozen
players over the years. Exclusive Spells vs. Exclusive Actions seem to be a
bit in the gray area at times. Shielding is considered one of these (I
forget which one off hand) for example. Also, how about turning on/off an
Anchoring? It isn't actually utilizing a skill, but does require some
measure of concentration.

>
> Fetish

<SNIP>

> Gesture
> The caster must gesture, dance or make similar movements while casting the
> spell. This requires the caster to be free to move. Such movements are
> easily
> noticed and preclude the use of Stealth.

Okay, then what about Kuji-kiri (spelling) the Ninja gesturing/hand dancing
mentioned in the Underworld Soucebook? Those gestures are designated as
Stealth oriented...I also have a Spider Shaman who uses a variation on
weaving (jacob's ladder toys) as a Centering technique...my request is, by
preclude the use of Stealth, what about Stealth itself?

> Incantation
> The caster must speak, sing or chant in a loud, firm voice while casting
the
> spell. This requires the caster to be free to speak. Such incantations are
> easily noticed and preclude the use of Stealth.

from Klingon Opera to Yak Yaking (Martians beware)

>
> Talisman
> The caster must have a material component, which is not consumed in the
> spellcasting. A talisman must be worn or carried to be useful. Talismans
> must
> be magically prepared for use like fetishes. Pre-made talismans are
> available
> from talismongers. Like fetishes, talismans are specific to a certain
> Category of spell and may be used for any spell of that Category.
>
> Example 1: Sammy the Burned-Out Mage has a Magic attribute of 2. He wants
to
<SNIP>
> Example 2: The manaball doesn't take out all of the gangers and they kick
<SNIP>

Question arises concerning Power Foci, or for that matter, any kind of
foci...

> GEASA
<SNIP>

> CENTERING
> Centering is the initiated version of rituals; a metamagical ability using

> an
> artistic Special Skill to focus the user's concentration and provide
> additional dice to reduce Drain. Centering requires a Simple Action to
> perform the required skill. Some Centering Skills can also fulfill geasa
or
> act as a ritual (see above). For example, an initiate who centers by
> chanting
> the medicine songs of his people could also fulfill an Incantation geas
and
> perform an Incantation ritual while centering. No more than one Centering
> Skill can be used at a time.

A question has come up by some of my players here, to which most of the time
I have said "NO", but what about using two different Centering Skills for an
overall complex action, such as summoning a Spirit in Great Form?

The books states that Centering for the Great Form quest is allowable, as is
summoning for drain initially. Help?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 19:40:22 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lorden <westln@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Fetish & Exclusive Spells
In-Reply-To: Caric <caric@********.COM> "Re: [SR3] Fetish & Exclusive
Spells"
(Jul 8, 2:02pm)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

| Speaking of learning spells... Anyone consider allowing spell-casters to
| "upgrade" spells?
| Instead of having to learn the spell again at a higher force, one could
| simply increase their current understanding of the spell...

I currently give the mages a slightly target number or karma cost
to learn speels they are upgrading. I also give them a penalty
if they are trying to learn a high level spell without first
learning a lower one.

It's worked well so far without complaints.

--
Nigel westln@***.edu
AKA C. Yossarrian, UPAC Projectionist
AKA Lorden
Speaking for myself, and no one else.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:53:04 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: messages
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 09 Jul 1997 02:23:20 PDT."
<3.0.2.32.19970709112320.00705978@******.com>

>>P.S. Press enter every 70 characters. Very long lines are BAD.... VERY BAD.
>Don`t have to... i`ve just minimized window :)

And this has to do with?

The line of yours above this one waws at least 93 chars long.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 19:57:17 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Wed, 09 Jul 1997 09:27:38 -0700"
<199707091638.LAA01887@********.mcit.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

You wrote:
> First before I forget does centering count as it's own "magical activity?"
> Can someone center when casting an exclusive spell?
Centering merely augments spellcasting (or whatever) and does not produce an
effect on its own, and so is not a magical activity.

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:56:30 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals
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Losthalo Wrote:
| > First before I forget does centering count as it's own "magical
activity?"
| > Can someone center when casting an exclusive spell?
| Centering merely augments spellcasting (or whatever) and does not produce
an
| effect on its own, and so is not a magical activity.

The problem I find with that is that shielding and masking are both magical
activities that cannot be done when an exclusive spell is being done, and
they are metamagic just like centering...

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 20:07:38 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals

In a message dated 97-07-09 00:17:55 EDT, caric@********.COM (Caric) writes:

>
> -Caric
>
> "If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
> is he still wrong?"
>
>
Probably...but only -she- would know..
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 20:11:38 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals

In a message dated 97-07-09 00:34:44 EDT, caric@********.COM (Caric) writes:
> I still think that all of them should make it take longer if the spell
> isn't specifically designed to be cast that way...if the spell was learned
> as exclusive then that ritual would have to be used everytime the spell
was
> cast. The bonus would be there, but no other rituals could be added
unless
> the caster took the time to "mix in" the other ritualistic bits. (better
> Spike?)
>
> -Caric

True enough Caric, but the question that has come to me is "how much longer?"
I've used this in my home games for years now, and everyone has come to
understand it well enough, but exactly "how long" is "longer" seems to
always
come up for debate.
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 17:06:19 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals
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| > I still think that all of them should make it take longer if the spell
| > isn't specifically designed to be cast that way...if the spell was
learned
| > as exclusive then that ritual would have to be used everytime the
spell
| was
| > cast. The bonus would be there, but no other rituals could be added
| unless
| > the caster took the time to "mix in" the other ritualistic bits.
(better
| > Spike?)
| >
| > -Caric
|
| True enough Caric, but the question that has come to me is "how much
longer?"
| I've used this in my home games for years now, and everyone has come to
| understand it well enough, but exactly "how long" is "longer" seems
to
always
| come up for debate.
| -K

I would probably say one complex action per ritual, seeing as it takes a
simple action to push a fraggin' button. Some people will probably say
this is too harsh though.

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 20:24:21 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells

In a message dated 97-07-09 04:25:55 EDT, gurth@******.NL (Gurth) writes:

> > 1) The drain would now be F instead of F/2 which means I have to roll
> > higher number to keep from knocking myself out, and if this is a spell I
> > cast often then that is very important.
>
> That's not really a good excuse :) You can cast spells at any Force up to
> and including the one you learned them at, so a Force 6 spell could be
> cast at Force 4 so the caster takes less Drain. The same argument can be
> applied to explanation 3, BTW.
>
>
Jumping to Caric's defense on this one...sometimes a GM manages to keep
his/her players limited to a give and take situation. If they want the Force
4 version, they only have to use their own personal library to design it
perhaps, while if they want a Force 6 version, then they may have to go
elsewhere. Then there is always the question of the Karma. 2 points in some
situations can mean a lot.
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 20:26:31 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals

In a message dated 97-07-09 04:44:28 EDT, caric@********.COM (Caric) writes:

>
> | I'd also suggest that there might be another Ritual, Preparation (there
> | ought to
> | be a better name for it), which would involve lighting incense, drawing
> chalk
> | circles on the ground, and similar such activities. (It would not
> actually
> | require talismongered fetishes, which is why this isn't just a form of
> | expendable fetish.)
>
> For this particular gem i would increase the bonuses it infers. It could
> really help with that mind probe spell when it's doing 12D drain at force
> 6. Maybe "preparation" (I agree it needs a better name, but I couldn't
> think of one either :) could lower drain catagory by one and the TN by 2,
> but it would take several minutes to prepare...like say force+1D6 miutes.
>
> -Caric

In some circles (a pun!?!) the term is known as "Entailment" instead of
Preparation. Something I have done in the past for the Preparation of some
things, such as Ritual Sites and Conjuring circles, is that the number of net
successes achieved on the preparation work is usable as a bonus magic pool
for the operation itself.
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 20:31:19 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Magical Magic (Flame Screens to Maximum)

In a message dated 97-07-09 06:40:43 EDT, lobo1@****.COM (John E Pederson)
writes:

>
> So, because you're so intelligent, the game should cater to you, rather
> than the vast numbers of younger players who, while not super-geniuses,
> the industry needs to get involved in the hobby of Role-Playing so that
> they can continue to sell books. Why should I cater solely to those who
> are already going to buy my product? Why shouldn't I tailor my product
> toward introducing those who might not buy? Granted, the product
> shouldn't be written on the level of an 8-year-old. However, if simpler
> rules speed up play and make the game easier to learn without losing the
> feel of the game, where's the harm?
> -Canthros
> I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
> and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
> --Francis Bacon
> http://members.aol.com/canthros1

There is no harm in it, I was merely stating a possible reason for certain
actions to have occurred and while they will still occur in the future. And
by the way, I wasn't refering to "Intelligence", I was referring a bit more
to "Experience". Creating a game experience, as you well know I'm sure,
requires a lot of balancing out of certain facets of game mechanics.

Experienced gamers or people who -really- want to play and understand the
game, whatever -THE- game is, will want to learn as much as they can while
potential players, those being people who haven't -quite- made up their mind
yet, need to have things kept interesting for them.

I am not trying to insult anyone, I promise.
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 19:44:11 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Court Schuett <schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>The problem I find with that is that shielding and masking are both magical
>activities that cannot be done when an exclusive spell is being done, and
>they are metamagic just like centering...

Is there a page number for this, or is this just speculated. It's just
that I've never seen this. I'm wondering if this is an interpretation of
the Exclusive rules, or is it in the Grimthingy?
Thanks. :)

-=Court

/* Court Schuett, a totally modern boy.
schuett@*****.ivcc.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Are you talking to me now or reading from a script?
What's that supposed to mean, you say you want to be yourself.
I don't think you even know just who the hell that is.
No, I don't think you have a clue just who the hell that is.
-Too Much Joy
*****************************************************************************/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 02:17:30 +0200
Reply-To: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.net>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Re: For mARCiN sERkIES [OT] (was Re: SHADOWRUN 3RD EDITION!)
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On Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:43:22 -0700, Caric wrote:

>| <snip>
>|
>| I just wanted to let you know, your messages are coming through as RTF
>| attachments. I have to go into (R)eply just to read them. Don't know
>| if anyone else has the same issue.
>
>Actually they have been coming through fine for me...hmmmmm

I'm getting an empty mail and an attacment ... a look in the attachment
shows that it's some very crippled HTML text ... anyway I just ignore
attachments ... I'm getting enough mail from this list to read, so that
I don't want to put attachments into other programs ... of course,
Marcin, I you want me to read your mails you better put them in the
mail body :)

--
Arno
*********************************************************************
Be careful when replying to this mail - check the address !!!
(And send me a note when you notice that
the reply-to-address points to the list!)
*********************************************************************

--
Arno
*********************************************************************
Be careful when replying to this mail - check the address !!!
(And send me a note when you notice that
the reply-to-address points to the list!)
*********************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 02:47:16 +0200
Reply-To: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.net>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Re: (Skill+Att)/2
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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On Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:12:34 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:

>I know that with Steve's SRIII stuff you may not have time to respond
>to this :), but I'd really like to know if there's any holes in this.

It would, at least, change the system of skills and attributes a lot.
But it might well be that it comes to be an improvement IMO.
Perhaps that change would be too big for FASA - they only plan minor
rule changes, and this one could be considered a bigger one. If you
only use the natural attribute in calculating the actual skill rating
things would be better because cyberware would not influence skills.
I remember reading posts about this earlier, but never thought about it
a lot.
If someone playtested this he/she/it might have a better point of view
to discuss it ...

--
Arno
*********************************************************************
Be careful when replying to this mail - check the address !!!
(And send me a note when you notice that
the reply-to-address points to the list!)
*********************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:23:38 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals

Caric wrote:

<>

Yeah, people like me:) How about a Free Action per ritual (since things
like speaking, gesturing, etc are listed as Free Actions).

--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:42:53 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lorden <westln@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals
In-Reply-To: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM> "Re: [SR3] Spell
Rituals"
(Jul 9, 6:59pm)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

A general comment. It seems that everyone is concentrating on
modifying target numbers or levels. In general this has a
greater effect on balance. Have people considered adding dice
instead?

One of the things I did to reduce the power of magic in my game
was to change fetishes so they added dice not Force to a spell.
This had the effect of lowering the target number the target had
to resist, but gave the mages more dice to role. Ingeneral most
people still fail to stay awake from a force 6 stun ball, but
there are a few that have to be dealt with afterwords.

--
Nigel westln@***.edu
AKA C. Yossarrian, UPAC Projectionist
AKA Lorden
Speaking for myself, and no one else.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:47:52 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lorden <westln@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals
In-Reply-To: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM> "Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals"
(Jul
9, 9:23pm)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Jul 9, 9:23pm, John E Pederson wrote:
> Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals
> Caric wrote:
>
> < a
> simple action to push a fraggin' button. Some people will probably say
> this is too harsh though.>>
>
> Yeah, people like me:) How about a Free Action per ritual (since things
> like speaking, gesturing, etc are listed as Free Actions).
>
> --
> -Canthros
> I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
> and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
> --Francis Bacon
> http://members.aol.com/canthros1
>-- End of excerpt from John E Pederson

Actually I'm leaning towards a couple of free actions
directly before casting the spell. This gives some warning
to others and makes the mage decide ahead of time what they
are going to do. All reasonable penalties for the benefits
of the ritual.

--
Nigel westln@***.edu
AKA C. Yossarrian, UPAC Projectionist
AKA Lorden
Speaking for myself, and no one else.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 17:48:45 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 21:23 7/9/97 EDT, John E Pederson wrote:
>Caric wrote:
><simple action to push a fraggin' button. Some people will probably say
>this is too harsh though.>>

>Yeah, people like me:) How about a Free Action per ritual (since things
>like speaking, gesturing, etc are listed as Free Actions).

Speaking *a single word* is a Free Action, IIRC. Since SR isn't a
high-fantasy
world where True Names and Words of Power are extremely important (they're
just
[a] a way to get a Free Spirit by the short hairs and [b] completely
subjective),
I'd suggest that Complex Action rituals can be fairly quiet (muttering your
arcane incantations while moving fingers furtively), but Free Action rituals
must be very obvious (loudly declaiming your Word of Power, raising your
hand(s)
in front of you in a bold gesture).

--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "So, an Arisian, a Vorlon, and a knnn go into a tavern..." %%
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 03:16:47 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Blaze <Blaze@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Women Weapons
In-Reply-To: <199707081334.HAA10162@******>
MIME-Version: 1.0

>mARCiN sERkIES wrote:
>|
>| >Also, consider some taser weapons
>|
>| Good idea... but i.e. my players consider tasers etc. as a women weapons...
>

WOMEN WEAPONS!!

Whaddyamean!

Cough, splutter, choke, growl, grunt, <grind teeth>

Nope, Pete said I must resist, I _will_ resist..

Growl, mutter, mumble.

- where's that damn carp thrower....

--
________ ______ _______ ________________
___ __ )___ / ___ |___ /___ ____/
__ __ |__ / __ /| |__ / __ __/
_ /_/ / _ /____ ___ |_ /___ /___
/_____/ /_____//_/ |_|/____//_____/
Inside every old man, there's a child waiting to get out.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 20:15:39 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Women Weapons
In-Reply-To: <6IKi+RAPSvwzEwDc@*******.demon.co.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 03:16 7/9/97 +0100, you wrote:
>>mARCiN sERkIES wrote:
>>|
>>| >Also, consider some taser weapons
>>|
>>| Good idea... but i.e. my players consider tasers etc. as a women
weapons...
>>
>
>WOMEN WEAPONS!!
>
>Whaddyamean!
>
>Cough, splutter, choke, growl, grunt, <grind teeth>
>
>Nope, Pete said I must resist, I _will_ resist..
>
>Growl, mutter, mumble.
>
>- where's that damn carp thrower....

*Chuckle*

She doesn't show up often, but she's interesting when she does.
:)

-Adam

--
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
"Can I have a cup of angst to go with my un-happy meal?" -- Hi & Lois
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 22:53:59 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Babylon 5 Drift (OT, possible B5 spoilers)
Comments: To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk

In a message dated 97-07-09 22:07:30 EDT, M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk (Mark
Steedman) writes:

>
> Someone has been heard to claim having seen up to episode 18 of
> season 4 but thats difficult to believe. A least the beginning of
> season 4 is good though :) awaiting more!
>
> Mark
>
Okay, I'll fall prey to this, what episode has people in US seen up to? I
know of Sheridan's fate and the nifty goings on on Menbar (Starfire).
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 22:55:27 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Magical Magic

In a message dated 97-07-09 22:37:24 EDT, dbuehrer@****.ORG (David Buehrer)
writes:

> Increasing
> or decreasing the staging creates a false skewing of the system that
> isn't needed.
>
> -David
>
Okay, that much you have said (which I snipped for shorter response) I follow
easily. I was just mentioning another thing I had heard once a long time ago
(right after 2nd ed came out actually). Oh well.
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 20:10:08 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Karma and Attributes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

---MC23 wrote:
>
> Still somewhat abuseable that way as well. My house rule (and
> somebody else's on the list as well so it's got to be good B>]# ) is
that
> every increase in attributes after CharGen costs new attribute level
> times the number of increase it is. Therefor the first increase is
the
> standard 1 times, the second is 2 times, the third is 3 times, etc.
This
> greatly discourages starting with lower stats and working your way
up to
> straight 6's. This was a problem in our games here until we added
that
> rule. Something like this would be great in SR3.

A personal pet peeve of mine has become a group of runners that very
shortly all end up running at racial max's: sammies, mages and deckers
alike. We had instituted the same house rule you describe above, but
just recently revoked it under playtesting for the system Caric has
explained. Under the above system, they can still all max out, it just
costs alot.

Basically, racial max's and karma cost for raising attributes stand as
listed in the BBB. However, each character has his own personal cap on
how far he can raise each attribute equal to 1.5x it's starting value
(rounded up). Mind you the 1.5x limit is after factoring in racial
modifiers at character creation.

===
@>--,--'--- Loki

Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/

"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 23:22:18 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Magical Magic
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Wed, 09 Jul 1997 09:54:58 -0700"
<199707091712.MAA27618@********.mcit.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

You wrote:
> I have a problem with that, if you are going to use variable staging it
> needs to be on both ends of the weapon. Typically the shooter will have
> lower target numbers then the target already so they would have the
> advantage. ie: Guy shooting pistol with damage code of 6M3 gun is smart
> and he is at short range shooter needs 2's and the target needs 6's. If
> shooter only needs 4 successes to hit for D and the target needs 3 to get
> it back down then it could be slightly overbalanced IMHO.
How does this make him 'smart'? My reasoning behind 2 Staging to raise damage
and variable to resist is that generally all weapons require a similar degree
of skill to wield (with some exceptions, primarily projectile or other
non-firearm weapons). OTOH, it is certainly much harder to take a MMG round
and live than a .22short pistol round. Variable staging helps model that
effect irl. Otherwise, I high body gives at least a chance of garnering the
successes to withstand that level of damage, regardless of the seriousness of
the damage. Coupled with good armor, a high body attribute goes a long way to
countering firearms. Whereas, if you had to get 1.5 times as many successes,
even with a high body you cannot as easily get the successes to resist a MMG or
high-power rifle as you can a pistol. It doesn't really matter how tough you
are if hit by a MMG round, though theoretically a pistol wound can be coped
with better by bigger, tougher individuals. I would really recommend that Body
dice to reduce damage be eliminated (they're called Soak Rolls in Storyteller
and Ars Magica, and I think they're just a way to let characters survive things
that ordinary humans cannot survive). But that's just me, and I know I won't
see that in SR, so I'll stop blathering now.

losthalo

> -Caric

> "If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
> is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 23:29:06 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,
or Bring out your Spells,Bring out your spells!!!]
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Wed, 09 Jul 1997 10:01:47 -0700"
<199707091712.NAA03857@********.mcit.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

You wrote:
> Not a bad idea...I could always post Orgasm to the list. :)
> It's already up on Loki's page though...got me into a few bars that little
> guy did.
Okay, I can see this as a popular and funny little spell, but it also has
certain... moral implications. Seriously, how would you like it if some guy
came along and made you spontaneously orgasm?

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 23:32:11 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: sr/ed ties (Mestoph's Fate)
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Wed, 09 Jul 1997 18:35:55 +0100"
<15012.199707091735@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
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You wrote:
Basically I figure he was used elsewhere describing events that happened before
he met his untimely demise...

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 20:33:48 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Karma and Attributes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

---David Buehrer wrote:
>
> Caric wrote:
> |
> | Okay we have it set up now that a character can only raise his
attributes
> | to 1.5 times what they started at. ie: Caric the street mage :)
starts his
>
> I don't know about that. Per your system if a character starts with
a
> Strength of 1, he's stuck with it. Arnold S. was a fairly skinny guy
> before he started working out, and look what he accomplished. I
feel that
> if you take the time and effort (karma) you can improve any
attribute to
> any level, up to a point (racial maximum).

Keep in mind what the attribute levels represent. A 6 is the biggest
buffest human known...racial max. Arnie may be a 6, but he may be
closer to 5.

Granted he wasn't always that buff, and and as you said he started out
skinny. However, he was skinny with the potential to reach what he is
today. I wouldn't say he was a sickly or frail skinny...like what a
body of 1 or 2 might represent. I'd say he was this or that side of
average...a 3 or 4 which in our system means he'd achieve a 5 or 6
personal limit (and thus having the potential to achieve human racial
max).

This is what we're trying to regulate in our game. I can't a husk of a
preson with a body of 1 pumping up to arnies status and a body of 6.
Likewise someone with an I.Q. of 90 could hit the books and study
courses, possibly achieving an I.Q. of 115...but I can't seem them
hitting a 130 or higher.

Anyways, this is what we are trying to represent in our game.

===
@>--,--'--- Loki

Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/

"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 23:42:32 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "David J. Browne Jr" <Ronin55444@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Karma and Attributes

In a message dated 97-07-08 20:04:17 EDT, you write:

<< I just remembered a gripe of mine. The x1 multiplier for increasing
| attributes with karma. I'd like to see a x2 multiplier for
| increasing attributes. With a x1 it doesn't take long before all the
| characters start to look the same (stat-wise). >>

I use a x2 multiplier for increasing skills and attributes.... I also have my
players keep track of skill and attribute use... Basically they have to use
the skill or attrib current level x 2 time before I allow them to raise
it..... if they go x amount of time (varies per skill or attribute) then they
get penalities when they try to use it the next time..... (And I give my
players everyopportunity to use ALL skills and sttrib each session or
two.....) I laid this out to them before I implemented it and they said it
sounded fair and reasonable and it works.... they like it and they say that
it keeps them on their toes (about their charas skills and such)

Dave

If you need to be looking it up -- Maybe you shouldn't be playing with it.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 23:43:07 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "David J. Browne Jr" <Ronin55444@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Game Wreckers (was: Magical drain)

In a message dated 97-07-09 02:05:54 EDT, you write:

<< Actually, I think I can really empathize with this. Is it just me, or
does
it seem like a vast number of role players out there just -HAVE- to get
their
way, and when they don't they do things to wreck the game? >>

This is why I GM on the fly.... They try to wreck the game and I wreck their
fun.... then I tell problem player to leave..... After all I am G.O.D.
(Game Overall Director)

If player still wants to be difficult I tell him not to speak to me till he
grows up and figures out what the hell he did to piss me off.

Dave
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 23:43:28 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "David J. Browne Jr" <Ronin55444@***.COM>
Subject: Changing the System (Was [SR3] Magical Magic)

In a message dated 97-07-09 10:03:43 EDT, you write:

<< The biggest advantage of 2nd over 1st ed is clearer
description of systems, not better systems, imo.

Amen. I'm glad they took the time to clairify most of what they did.... It
helped nearly all my players understand the hows and whys of parts better
than I could explain.

>>They're not much simpler than first ed, nor really clearer (those who had
a problem with variable staging raise your hands).

Variable stageing was one of the first things I read which i really
liked....Never had a problem with it.... but then again there might be a
reason I had to explain the concept to many of my players :)

And a game written toward young teenagers prolly won't hold my interest
long, honestly. If SR3 continues in that direction I won't care for it,
even if it makes FASA richer, because I'll have watched the quality of the
game diminish, and that's why I liked SR in the first place. I don't *want*
it to be complex, but simplifying the rules further doesn't seem necessary to
me.>>

Put it on a 3rd grade reading level (what most teens today read on) and I'm
afraid FASA would Lose more buyers then they gain..... their best bet is (as
it has always been ) "word of mouth" (Which BTW is how I haerd about it when
it first came out)

Dave
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 23:33:42 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Magical Magic
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Wed, 09 Jul 1997 11:47:26 -0600"
<199707091747.LAA27034@******>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

You wrote:
> Nope, it's because variable staging is not consistent with the
> system. Staging is a reflection of the attacker's skill and the
> target's ability to resist damage. The better you are (more
> successes) the better the shot (more damage). The tougher/quicker
> you are, the less damage you will take. Staging has, and shouldn't,
> have anything to do with the effectiveness of a weapon A weapon's
> effectiveness is allready defined by it's the power and base damage
> level.
I disagree. One success versus a shotgun might not be as much as one success
versus a pistol. A point of Body attribute versus a punch is not the same as
against a bullet. There are greatly varying levels of damage done by the
various weapons seen in SR. Variable staging helped to show this in SR1, imo.
Two things may cause me the same amount of fatigue if I fail to resist them,
but one might be much harder to resist fully than the other. Some (staging of
4+) I almost never resist, but they only cause a light fatigue, perhaps.

Also, an example:
character is caught within the area effect of a HEM fired at her group. She
tries to dodge out of the hottest part of the blast, and rolls Combat Pool and
then Body Dice to resist damage. Now, two lucky successes (under current
system) let her stage teh damage down a level; under variable staging, two
lucky successes might not even do that, she might still be looking at 'regular,
or extra-tasty-crispy'. I think it's harder to get lucky with bigger, more
damaging attacks, and there isroom in the system for variable staging to
represent this (shotguns staging 3, MGs 4, etc.). Few people survive shotgun
blasts unharmed, and it's not because they aren't big and strong, it's because
surviving that is hard. This is my rationale. Universal Staging 2 doesn't
sufficiently represent the nastier weapons.

Likewise for the drain of a spell. If you think the drain of
> a spell should be harder or easier to resist, increase or decrease
> either the power or the base damage level of the drain. Increasing
> or decreasing the staging creates a false skewing of the system that
> isn't needed.
Again, I disagree. It should be much harder to resist suddenly catching fire
and burning than some other sorts of magical attacks, or more massive influxes
of damaging mana (in the case of manabolt and powerbolt-type spells).

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 22:39:15 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Black Death <ddmaster@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,
or Bring out your Spells,Bring out your spells!!!]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> Not a bad idea...I could always post Orgasm to the list.
:)
> It's already up on Loki's page though...got me into a few
bars that little
> guy did.
Okay, I can see this as a popular and funny little spell, but it also
has
certain... moral implications. Seriously, how would you like it if some
guy
came along and made you spontaneously orgasm?

losthalo

I'd kill'em deader than a door nail.
--
Heaven or Hell it does not matter for I am the soul taker and you are
next on my list.
Black Death
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 23:45:29 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Magical Magic
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Wed, 09 Jul 1997 11:47:26 -0600"
<199707091747.LAA27034@******>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

You wrote:
Oh, also, it is often much easier to improve the accuracy of a shot than it is
to dodge it, don't you think? Target numbers alone don't represent that, I
think. Sorry for not tacking that onto the end of my last post.

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 23:47:10 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: (SR3)Variable staging
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Wed, 09 Jul 1997 14:01:30 -0400"

<c=US%a=_%p=Reichhold%l=RCIRTPMSX-970709180130Z-10145@*********.reichhold.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

You wrote:
> To throw my idea on the table, Why not vary the staging based on the
> damage to be resisted. Deadly required 2 successes to stage down,
> Serious requires 3, Moderate requires 4 and Light requires 5. This
> appears extreme, though a more reasonable system could be created.

> My two cents,
Why would you like to see it that way, pray tell?

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 22:52:40 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Black Death <ddmaster@**.NET>
Subject: Off The Wall Weapons
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I have put my neck in a noose when I suggested that for a new article in
TSS to be "Off the Wall (Or Floor) Weapons". This article is about the
'closest thing to grab' weapons (I.E. beer bottles, baseball bats, ash
trays, and many more.

If any one has their own stats on these and would like to donate them
(for recognition of your work). Your efforts would be very Helpful.

--
Heaven or Hell it does not matter for I am the soul taker and you are
next on my list.
Black Death
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 23:58:07 EST5EDT4,M4.1.0,M10.5.0
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Collins <collinsst@*****.UML.EDU>
Subject: Re: Babylon 5 Drift (OT, possible B5 spoilers)

we have seen through 18 all but the last 4 now though we have to wait til mid october for
more:(
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:07:45 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Magical Magic
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

---MC23 wrote:
>
> The thing closest to this that somewhat irritates me is that
> everything more or less relates to either hermetic or shamanic in
it's
> handling, and mostly to shamanic at that. I would love to see
something
> that breaks that mold or mixes it up at least.

Along these lines, I'd like a little more info on the Shamanic Mask.
Is it more or less pronounced depending on the force of spells being
used? Is it more pronounced when a shaman is using magic governed by
his totem? Does initiation make the mask more apparent? Does the
meta-magic Masking affect a Shamanic Mask? If a cat shaman on the
NPC's side in a fight starts casting magic, how well would the PC's be
able to see her Shamanic Mask and realize what she is (assume she's
casting low enough force spells that the spell casting itself isn't
blatantly obvious)?

===
@>--,--'--- Loki

Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/

"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 00:24:02 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Wed, 09 Jul 1997 18:59:43 -0400"
<970709185930_1994272282@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

You wrote:
> A question has come up by some of my players here, to which most of the time
> I have said "NO", but what about using two different Centering Skills for
an
> overall complex action, such as summoning a Spirit in Great Form?

> The books states that Centering for the Great Form quest is allowable, as is
> summoning for drain initially. Help?
Allowable, yes. Stackable, no. Letting Centering types stack is munchym
sorry. Also, most actions that can benefit from Centering are Complex Actions
anyway... They're using their one Free Action of the phase to Center, and their
Complex Actions to cast, summon, whatevah.

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 00:05:03 -0400
Reply-To: shergold@***********.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Shergold <shergold@***********.NET>
Subject: Re: Babylon 5 Drift (OT, possible B5 spoilers)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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> >
> > Someone has been heard to claim having seen up to episode 18 of
> > season 4 but thats difficult to believe. A least the beginning of
> > season 4 is good though :) awaiting more!
> >
> > Mark
> >
> Okay, I'll fall prey to this, what episode has people in US seen up to?
I
> know of Sheridan's fate and the nifty goings on on Menbar (Starfire).
> -K

SPOILER ALERT!.........
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------

I saw up to and including the episode where that telepath gave Garibaldi
his memories back, after giving Sheridan to Clark's people.

SilverFire

"I merely chewed in self-defense."

-Draco the Dragon
"Dragonheart"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 00:00:56 -0400
Reply-To: shergold@***********.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Shergold <shergold@***********.NET>
Subject: Re: Women Weapons
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> At 03:16 7/9/97 +0100, you wrote:
> >>mARCiN sERkIES wrote:
> >>|
> >>| >Also, consider some taser weapons
> >>|
> >>| Good idea... but i.e. my players consider tasers etc. as a women
> weapons...
> >>
> >
> >WOMEN WEAPONS!!
> >
> >Whaddyamean!
> >
> >Cough, splutter, choke, growl, grunt, <grind teeth>
> >
> >Nope, Pete said I must resist, I _will_ resist..
> >
> >Growl, mutter, mumble.
> >
> >- where's that damn carp thrower....
>

I agree with Blaze. Let's thwap the idiot together, shall we?

Gentlemen do you consider a gun a "woman's weapon" <dripping sarcasm>? A
woman's weapon is her mind, her willingness to use it, and whatever happens
to be available on hand to hurt, maim, or kill the offending party (be it
he/she/it).

SilverFire

"I merely chewed in self-defense."

-Draco the Dragon
"Dragonheart"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 22:48:54 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Re: Babylon 5 Drift (OT, Deffinite B5 spoilers)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> Okay, I'll fall prey to this, what episode has people in US seen up to? I
> know of Sheridan's fate and the nifty goings on on Menbar (Starfire).

Well I'm not sure which fate you are speaking of as he has fallen
prey to several so.....

S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S

B
E
C
A
U
S
E

Y
O
U

A
S
K
E
D

F
O
R

I
T

Well as for what is happening as of the last episode here goes
Sheridan:
Having fallen into a trap laid by EarthGov and Mr Gerabaldi, Sheridan
was taken prisoner and tortured..They dedicated and entire episode to
this..It reminded me of Survival School...

Evanova:
Looks like she is in charge for a while..And she is going to
press things while she has the control to do so..

Geribaldi:
Well if anyone didn't already figure it out..He was being controlled
be PSI Corps..He was finally given his life and his memories
back..Including all of his treachery..But not before Evanova put out
a "Shoot on sight" order on him..He helped PSI Corps put down a
plot to kill or control all the ESPers..He also helped capture
Sheridan by leading EarthGov to Sheridan's father and then telling
Sheridan about it and pretending to want to help..

Dalen:
Went through the Starfire ritual..regaining political control after a
civil war between the Warrior and Religious castes..She reformed the
Grey Council adding a bunch of worker caste to the mix..

Lando and Jakar:
Haven't exactly made up..but they are at least working together for
the greater good..putting their differences aside for the time
being..

Other Events:
A follower race of the Shadows creeped up and want to take up where
the Shadows left off..I forget what they are called..
Mars was the center of a lot of the events that lead up to the season
cliff hanger..

And that is about all I can remember for now..And no complaining
about my butchering any of the character's names..
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 23:36:19 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: For mARCiN sERkIES [OT] (was Re: SHADOWRUN 3RD EDITION!)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

---Drekhead wrote:
>
> On 9 Jul 97 at 11:37, mARCiN sERkIES wrote:
>
> > QUESTION: ANY1 HAVE SIMILIAR PROBLEM ???
>
> Well, I don't know what my mailer is doing behind the scenes, but I
> receive your messages as one long line. But quoted text appears ok.
> Weird.
> No... i think not... it`s problem only with you... i`ll check config
of my mailer... maybe something is set wrong here....

I think it's that his mail is coming through in MIME or some other
format. I can only read the message if I go into a (R)eply for it.
I've pasted part of his message as I get to see it below. Note his
sig, it has some obvious centering and other tags.

-----Seperator for pasting of Yasiu's message-----

> QUESTION: ANY1 HAVE SIMILIAR PROBLEM ???
>
>
>
> <center>]-[ yASiU ]-[ aKa mARCiN sERkIES ]-[ e-MAiL -
yasiu@******.com
> ]-[ </center>

===
@>--,--'--- Loki

Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/

"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 00:17:42 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: Re: messages
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

mARCiN sERkIES wrote:

> >P.S. Press enter every 70 characters. Very long lines are BAD....
> VERY BAD.
>
> Don`t have to... i`ve just minimized window :)

Isn't doing anything. Some mail readers don't word wrap properly.

Also, you are sending out html tags. Please look into your mailer
setting and disable them, or switch to a different mailer. (I'm sure
everyone would suggest Eudora or Pegasus)

> ]-[ yASiU ]-[ aKa mARCiN sERkIES ]-[ e-MAiL - yasiu@******.com ]-[

--

Dvixen Code-word : Weevil-chuck. dvixen@********.com
"I'd rather have a face people fear." - Ivanova - Babylon 5
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:17:56 +0000
Reply-To: florian.goll@******.uni-weimar.de
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <goll1@********.hab-weimar.de>
From: Raven <florian.goll@******.UNI-WEIMAR.DE>
Subject: Re: SR/ED ties (slight rant)
In-Reply-To: <199707091901.OAA22458@********.mcit.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> | << Ya know Spike you're alot like the Spanish Inquisition in that regard.
> |
> | I didn't expect the spanish inquisition......
> | >>
> |
> | Nooooo one expects the Spanish Inquisition..... Our Main Weapon is
> | Shadowrun....
>
> Ok ok ok our two main weapons are Shadowrun and the big comfy chair...no
> wait...
... our THREE main weapons are Shadowrun, the big comfy chair and the
soft cushions... aaaand
--Raven

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCC/MC/SS>$ d-(?) s:+>: !a>? C++(+)@ LSX P L+ E+ W++ N o? K-
w+ O M+ V PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5+ X+++ R* tv+(++) b+++ DI? D+
G(++) e>++++ h--(---) !r z?
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:17:44 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells -- Level 6?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970707115917.006e7e28@****.lis.ab.ca>

> The reason is obvious. To create a munchy character that can 'win' the
> game alot easier. I've said this several times recently; A 'real' person
> wouldn't and doesn't have several skills/spells at a high rating, they
> would have more at various ratings. We are representing a real living
> human being in this game, aren't we? Or is 'he' merely a sheet with some
> high numbers on it to make the dice rolls easier?

Well, of course the numbers represent a living person... but not a
living person like me and you... Shadowrunners are different.
And there are samurais who have learnt nothing but how to kill
and fight effectively. A samurai withOUT a couple of combat skills at
level 6 is no real samurai, IMHO.

> Its cheaper to take skills at '6' during chargen, but its alot cheaper to
> raise a couple skills from 3 --> 4 --> 5 than it is to start at 0 and work
> your way up.

If you want to save karma during game, take as many skills as
possible at level 6 during chargen.

> I'm working on some alternate chargen rules to encourage diversity in
> skills. Stay tuned :)
> -Aj

We will... just let us know then..

ss
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:17:56 +0000
Reply-To: shadowrn@********.ITRIBE.NET
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <goll1@********.hab-weimar.de>
From: Raven <florian.goll@******.UNI-WEIMAR.DE>
Subject: Re: SR/ED ties (slight rant)
In-Reply-To: <199707091901.OAA22458@********.mcit.com>
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> | << Ya know Spike you're alot like the Spanish Inquisition in that regard.
> |
> | I didn't expect the spanish inquisition......
> | >>
> |
> | Nooooo one expects the Spanish Inquisition..... Our Main Weapon is
> | Shadowrun....
>
> Ok ok ok our two main weapons are Shadowrun and the big comfy chair...no
> wait...

Our THREE main weapons are Shadowrun, the comfy chair, the soft
cushions aaand...
--Raven

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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:26:48 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells -- Level 6?
In-Reply-To: <01IKYCLHY7V89I4J09@******.acs.muohio.edu>

> Unless, of course, those points would help you more somewhere else (i.e. you
> can get enough out of a force 4 fireball...). I've tended to take only one or
> two spells at a force of 6, if that. But I'm also using some force points to
> pay for a focus, so I'm a little shy on points for what I want, usually. And
> sometimes the high-force spells are the Invisibility and Physical Mask, to make
> them hard to see through... I'm not accusing you of munchkinism, though it may
> be the case, just of giving a sweeping generalization that is really untrue.
> losthalo

The force gain from 4-6 for combat spells is the most effective force
gain you will ever find. Not only inceases it the number of your
dice, but also decreases the opponents number of successes by nearly
70%. If you augment the invisibility spell instead, you'll only get
more dice to roll.

ss (as always: IMHO, no offense intended, and sorry for the
bad english... ;-)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 00:16:47 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mARCiN sERkIES <yasiu@******.COM>
Subject: Re: SR 3rd Ed. comments and questions
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970709092959.007bbb70@***.iquest.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 09:29 9.07.97 -0500, you wrote:
>That may sound like a lot, but it shouldn't detract from sales of the BBB,
>rather it could be an additional product for about $10, and include
>something like the contacts booklet with the GM screen with it, so people
>would more likely buy it than copy it.
>It does cost about $7 to copy a CD.

It cost 7$ tu burn CD in normal CD-Writer (like my Yamaha102) but massive
production of CD is very, very cheap. Just look, how big computer magazines
transfer CD`s past border. They are not counting that by pieces but by
height :))

]-[ yASiU ]-[ aKa mARCiN sERkIES ]-[ e-MAiL - yasiu@******.com ]-[
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:33:39 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Clen Cook <Clen@******.CO.ZA>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells -- Level 6?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Simon wrote :

>Well, of course the numbers represent a living person... but not a
>living person like me and you... Shadowrunners are different.
>And there are samurais who have learnt nothing but how to kill
>and fight effectively. A samurai withOUT a couple of combat skills at
>level 6 is no real samurai, IMHO.

I agree - if you have seen the movie - "The Professional", it's about
an assassin who's the best at his job - but is lacking in social
skills. Some characters/people are trained to kill, or do their jobs to
the exclusion of all else.

Clen
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:44:21 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: Re: Surgery costs
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970708182921.006fa5d4@******.com>

> Why??? Just realize complication of that surgery. To put everything in
> right place WITHOUT ANY MISTAKE. It`s long and hard task.
>
> mARCiN sERkIES

But developing and building the Item in question is a long and hard
task, too. And if the surgery is that expensive, the differences in
cost between the cyber- and bioware items would literally vanish..

ss
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:01:20 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells -- Level 6?
In-Reply-To: <199707101228.KAA12866@******.sybase.co.za>

> I agree - if you have seen the movie - "The Professional", it's about
> an assassin who's the best at his job - but is lacking in social
> skills. Some characters/people are trained to kill, or do their jobs to
> the exclusion of all else.
> Clen

And that's how I see shadowrunners... Highly able specialists with an
extremely tough job... They do what no one else can do, risk their
lifes during every job... And earn big nuyen for it...
I _hate_ the Dirk-Montgomery-shadowrunner-image. (no, I don't hate
the novels... just the attitude that Montgomery is the typical
shadowrunner...)

ss
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:17:03 +0000
Reply-To: shadowrn@********.ITRIBE.NET
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <goll1@********.hab-weimar.de>
From: Raven <florian.goll@******.UNI-WEIMAR.DE>
Subject: Re: books again
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970709230600.006a4980@******.com>
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> It`s me again with question about books... At friday i`m going to drive 300km to
> buy few books. First that i`m sure i`ll buy is SR - second edition.
>Next are StreetSamCatalog, SeattleSourcebook. All ...
Get the BBB, the StreetSam is nice, with a few useful things but you
don't need it, Seattle Sourcebook is quite useful if you want to play
in Seattle and for the European players the Germany Sourcebook is a
must, more or less, if it is the German version it's better 'cause
there are lots of nice toys in it!
--Raven

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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:17:03 +0000
Reply-To: shadowrn@********.ITRIBE.NET
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <goll1@********.hab-weimar.de>
From: Raven <florian.goll@******.UNI-WEIMAR.DE>
Subject: Re: For mARCiN sERkIES [OT] (was Re: SHADOWRUN 3RD EDITION!)
In-Reply-To: <199707092113.RAA28576@www.ctghub.com>;
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> > QUESTION: ANY1 HAVE SIMILIAR PROBLEM ???
>
> Well, I don't know what my mailer is doing behind the scenes, but I
> receive your messages as one long line. But quoted text appears ok.

Same with me, so _please_ press enter after 70 chars!!!
--Raven

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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:17:03 +0000
Reply-To: shadowrn@********.ITRIBE.NET
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <goll1@********.hab-weimar.de>
From: Raven <florian.goll@******.UNI-WEIMAR.DE>
Subject: Re: books again
In-Reply-To: <199707092127.QAA18937@********.mcit.com>
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> Sounds good. Cybertech is good, but the Geramany sourcebook I would wait
> on. Find out what language it is in...I hear bad things about the German
> version. In fact I would forgo the seattle sourcebook in favor on the
> grimoire definately.
Hey Caric, what things are bad about the Germany book in german????
IMO its better than the english version (I prefer the originals) and
it has a few add-ons in it. I read the english version of that book
and still think the german one is far better (if you can do the
language)
--Raven

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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:17:03 +0000
Reply-To: shadowrn@********.ITRIBE.NET
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <goll1@********.hab-weimar.de>
From: Raven <florian.goll@******.UNI-WEIMAR.DE>
Subject: Re: cyberware and it's effects on the psyche and body
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970709163346.007be860@***.iquest.net>
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> so what's the best way role play a sammie with .6 essence?
>
> what sorts of effects on him can realistically be expected?
>
> What long-term effects does this have on a body and psyche?

Well, if he has some Reaction/Initiative modifiers he may be prone to
some very instinctive reactions, like shooting someone who sneaks up
behind him and tapping on his shoulder. He may also appear to be cold
and distanced to the 'normal' people, because he sees the world in
another, more distanced way through his Cybereyes (if he has any).
Lastly the effects on the body are not that much, there are some good
Immuno-Supressors around by now, maybe he is a bit more prone to
diseases (by the Immuno-Supressors) or Cancer (I know it's from the
Cybertech for those Cybermancy Soldiers, but you can use it
nonetheless <EGMG>)
That's all I can think of at the moment...
--Raven

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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:58:29 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: [OT] Horror smilies
In-Reply-To: <14822.199707091615@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Spike said on 17:15/ 9 Jul 97...

> |channel started to suck, BTW :))
> |
> |(Important note: This -------^^^ is not an attempt at a Horror smiley! :)
>
> Errrrm.....
>
> Wouldn't a horror smilie look more like :::) ?

Yeah, but this one could be mistaken for a simple Horror smiley, and to
avoid legal hassles I included the disclaimer :::)))):)) (oops! :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Two words: therapy.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:58:29 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Off The Wall Weapons
In-Reply-To: <33C45C88.DFE594B1@**.net>
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Black Death said on 22:52/ 9 Jul 97...

> I have put my neck in a noose when I suggested that for a new article in
> TSS to be "Off the Wall (Or Floor) Weapons". This article is about the
> 'closest thing to grab' weapons (I.E. beer bottles, baseball bats, ash
> trays, and many more.
>
> If any one has their own stats on these and would like to donate them
> (for recognition of your work). Your efforts would be very Helpful.

*remembers really old joke* Don't forget to include a kitchen sink!

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Two words: therapy.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:58:29 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: SR 3rd Ed. comments and questions
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970709091606.0096da60@********>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Michael Broadwater said on 9:16/ 9 Jul 97...

> Well, White Wolf is making a cd of Vampware that's supposed to be out
> sometime next year. If that does well, FASA may (or may not) change their
> stance on things.

This autumn there should be a Vampire CD-ROM with stuff like a character
generator, screen saver with Bradstreet artwork, a "Storyteller assistant"
that generates cities, encounters, maps, etc., plus some audio tracks.
(Or so it says in the bit of text I'm reading ATM).

This sort of thing actually sounds more useful to me than a rulebook on
CD-ROM (well, apart from the screen saver and possibly the music tracks).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Two words: therapy.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:58:29 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: cyberware and it's effects on the psyche and body
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970709163346.007be860@***.iquest.net>
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Jaymz said on 16:33/ 9 Jul 97...

> so what's the best way role play a sammie with .6 essence?

The same way you normally play him. It's mostly the GM who has to keep in
mind peoples' reactions to someone who moves twice as fast as others, and
has half his visible flesh replaced by metal and plastic.

> what sorts of effects on him can realistically be expected?
>
> What long-term effects does this have on a body and psyche?

None that we know of. Cyberpsychosis doesn't exist in SR *chants to self
"Don't start that thread! Don't start that thread!"* and really the only
effect we know of is that people close to or at 0 Essence "walk the edge
of sanity" without further explanation.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Two words: therapy.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:58:29 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: (SR3)Variable staging
In-Reply-To:
<c=US%a=_%p=Reichhold%l=RCIRTPMSX-970709180130Z-10145@*********.reichhold.com>
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Jackson, Hank said on 14:01/ 9 Jul 97...

> To throw my idea on the table, Why not vary the staging based on the
> damage to be resisted. Deadly required 2 successes to stage down,
> Serious requires 3, Moderate requires 4 and Light requires 5. This
> appears extreme, though a more reasonable system could be created.

That would only blur the differences between damage classes. I'm not too
great at statistics, but it looks to me like with that system most attacks
would end up doing about the same damage, no matter their initial Damage
Level.

Not to mention it makes the rules needlessly complicated. Variable staging
is still better IMHO.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Two words: therapy.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:58:29 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: books again
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970709230600.006a4980@******.com>
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mARCiN sERkIES said on 23:06/ 9 Jul 97...

> It`s me again with question about books... At friday i`m going to drive
> 300km to buy few books. First that i`m sure i`ll buy is SR - second
> edition. Next are StreetSamCatalog, SeattleSourcebook. All >

(See what happens when you don't hit enter? Now I'll have to copy & paste
to get the whole message in here...)

> SeattleSourcebook. All of them are used but in one piece... so should i
> buy all of them??? and next i can get cybertechnology and germany
> sourcebook so again should i have them???

If I were you I'd get at least SRII. Also get the Seattle Sourcebook if
your campaign will be set in Seattle; OTOH if you plan on setting it in
Germany (or Poland -- it's close enough to get ideas of what Poland would
be like in the 2050s), the Germany Sourcebook would be the obvious
choice.

The SSC is a tougher choice; the game stats for 99% of its items are in
SRII, but you get no descriptions or rules, and so that way you won't know
that a Predator II has a built-in smartlink, for example. If you don't
care about that, then Cybertech would be the obvious choice.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Two words: therapy.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:58:29 +0100
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Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: "Shadow" of an Apology (to Gurth- OT)
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Not Spike said on 18:38/ 9 Jul 97...

> |Gurth, I am sorry for misleading you so ... and I am also sorry you don't
> |have B5 anymore ... we just have found they are going to complete all the way
> |through 5th season and go for not one, but two, made for tv movies.

There is still hope... About a month ago RTL4 showed the last episode of
season 2, so perhaps (or should I say hopefully...) they'll go on with
the next season after the summer. However, if I look at the time it was on
(somewhere between 12:00 and 14:00 on Saturday), it looked a lot like they
were showing it because they paid for it, not because they wanted to... :/

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Two words: therapy.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:16:37 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: Off The Wall Weapons
In-Reply-To: <33C45C88.DFE594B1@**.net>
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> I have put my neck in a noose when I suggested that for a new
> article in TSS to be "Off the Wall (Or Floor) Weapons". This article
> is about the 'closest thing to grab' weapons (I.E. beer bottles,
> baseball bats, ash trays, and many more.
>
> If any one has their own stats on these and would like to donate
> them (for recognition of your work). Your efforts would be very
> Helpful.

Afraid I don't have any stats (I always just end up describing
effects) but the most common "Off the wall" weapon in my game is a
fire extinguisher....they're everywhere, they're heavy, and a blast
to the face can do wonders.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:17:53 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: [SR3] Physical Adepts

Shadowrun ML demon
> "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU> writes:
> > Are you saving up for Initiation? If so, that first rush of new abilities may
> > make up for that dry spell. All depends on how useful you find metamagic to be
> > for a physad.
>
> Yeah - I am saving up for Level 0 Initiation... so masking - that's
> basically it. Centering requires a special skill (so even more
> karma)... *sigh*
>
You get the ability to notice peolpe masking (but not break it) if
you have astral perception, but.
Yeah phs-ads get a raw deal out of grade 0 but then you paid a 'B'
not 'A' for magic, the other adept types suffer as well.

However Masking is THE ability, allows you to tell lies on the astral
plane and sneak into places past the sec mage claiming to be Mr or
Mrs Bloggs and get away with it (Honest i don't have reflexes like
superman and more magically boosted unarmed combat than anything and
killing hands, honest :). Or even worse a cyberarm shotgun :) [ok
that takes some physical concealment as well but] 'tell' the mage you
have essence 6 and he at least won't be suspicious)

Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:32:44 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: (Skill+Att)/2

David Buehrer writes

> I'm not going to put a [SRIII] header on this cuz I don't even know
> if it'll work.
>
> I'd like to see most skills linked to attributes. With this system
> you have two types of skills, standard and stand-alone. Standard
> skills have a link attribute, stand-alone skills don't.
>
> Average the rating of a standard skill and its link attribute to
> figure out how many dice you get to roll for that skill for any given
> test. If you've got Firearms 6, and it's linked to a Quickness of 4,
> you'd get to roll 5 dice for Firearms tests.
>
The BIG problem with systems like this is that it is often FAR FAR
cheaper to just buy every skill in dight at 1 and then buy your
attributes to silly levels than it is to buy the skills up because of
the knock on affect it has.
Both 'Mechwarrior' and 'Earthdawn' have Attribute values that figure
inot skill ratings, i have seen what a maximum attrubutes priority
clan Mechwarrior does to the Mechwarrior system it isn't funny, it's
plain stupendous compared with a medium attributes character
regardless of skill points (though the relative cost of increasing
the skills and attrubutes 1:10! does reflect the attributes value).
In Ed most folks stick the vital attributes high anyway (and ED is so
dangerous you cannot have tooling 1's in atriubtes, eg several VERY
nasty talents attack social defense so charisma is a must) and you
cannot increase them very much so it works.

> With a stand-alone skill you just roll a number of dice equal to the
> skill's rating.
>
> I haven't categorized the skills yet because if this doesn't fly with
> my players I'm don't want to waste the time.
>
> I would also like to add that I feel that standard skills should have
> a maximum rating equal to their linked skill x1.5. Stand-alone
> skills would not have a maximum.
>
Um.
I have heard and occasionally looked at systems like this before and
it seems SR just does not respond well. As minimum you would have to
put the cost of rasing attributes up to 3 or more times new rating
and limit rolled dice to skill*1.5 or something.

> And a magician would not be able to learn a spell with a Force
> greater than his Magic Theory x1.5.
There is already a limit in GR2 that you cannot research spells with
forces higher than magic theory, though it's so well hidden nearly
nobody finds it. More limits like this could really help keep
rampaging magic in check though more sensibly than fiddling with
drain as skills are the one thing in SR that make initiation look
cheap (except possibly ally spirits tough enough to stand in LOS of a
combat).

>
> I know that with Steve's SRIII stuff you may not have time to respond
> to this :), but I'd really like to know if there's any holes in this.

Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:34:23 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells -- Level 6?
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:17:44 +0100"
<12ADD515418@********.uibk.ac.at>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

You wrote:
> Well, of course the numbers represent a living person... but not a
> living person like me and you... Shadowrunners are different.
> And there are samurais who have learnt nothing but how to kill
> and fight effectively. A samurai withOUT a couple of combat skills at
> level 6 is no real samurai, IMHO.
Oh, they have to be at a 6, huh? 5's not good enough (look at the Street Sam
archetype, Firearms 5).

> If you want to save karma during game, take as many skills as
> possible at level 6 during chargen.
Yep. *Munch* *munch* *munch*.

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:45:17 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Karma and Attributes
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Loki once dared to write,

>A personal pet peeve of mine has become a group of runners that very
>shortly all end up running at racial max's: sammies, mages and deckers
>alike. We had instituted the same house rule you describe above, but
>just recently revoked it under playtesting for the system Caric has
>explained. Under the above system, they can still all max out, it just
>costs alot.

Then maybe the rate you give out Karma should be reviewed. My group
only gives out 2-3 Karma points a session as a general rule. Karma become
too valuable to spend on multiple increases that way. Maybe Karma awards
should be reviewed as well in SR3. They were never too clear to begin
with in either system. We ended up based the awards on Champions and
GURPS which gave us a level we were comfortable with. Besides, when you
set a limit on something, players do have a tendency to try to set
everything at that level. Why else would the rule of 6 at CharGen give so
many people so many problems. The rule itself is fine, but but people
still complain about players setting a lot of skills and such at 6.

>Basically, racial max's and karma cost for raising attributes stand as
>listed in the BBB. However, each character has his own personal cap on
>how far he can raise each attribute equal to 1.5x it's starting value
>(rounded up). Mind you the 1.5x limit is after factoring in racial
>modifiers at character creation.

And if you start with a stat of 1? I originally considered a +3 cap
before I opted for my current rule. I would argue that now you are
enticing players to start the game with higher stats with that rule. And
with that it sounds like you would get right back to every character with
attributes of 6. If not now then you will later.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 06:49:37 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: For mARCiN sERkIES [OT] (was Re: SHADOWRUN 3RD EDITION!)
In-Reply-To: <199707092113.PAA24436@******> from "mARCiN sERkIES" at Jul
9,
97 11:37:23 am
Content-Type: text

mARCiN sERkIES wrote:
|
| At 20:26 8.07.97 -0700, you wrote:
|
| >I just wanted to let you know, your messages are coming through as RTF
|
| >attachments. I have to go into (R)eply just to read them. Don't know
|
| >if anyone else has the same issue.
|
|
| No... i think not... it`s problem only with you... i`ll check config
of my mailer... maybe something is set wrong here....
|
| QUESTION: ANY1 HAVE SIMILIAR PROBLEM ???

The posts you quote come through double-spaced. And your posts come
through as one long line. Is there a word-wrap option for outgoing
messages on your mailer?

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
Observe your co-worker's interaction with the computer mouse. If he
is using it to manipulate the cursor, he's human. If he's using it
as a foot pedal, he's your boss.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:32:12 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@*****.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Allergy and exclusivity
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Quick question, gang.

I have a character with an allergy. Would exposure to it be
distracting enough to keep them from using an exclusive spell?

Thanks.

--

=DREKHEAD========================================================
drekhead@***.net --- http://users.aol.com/drekhead/home.html ---
=================================================================
=================================================================
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot
stomping on a human face...forever. -George Orwell
=================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 07:34:06 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Staging
In-Reply-To: <199707100346.VAA13667@******> from "Bruce H. Nagel" at Jul
9,
97 11:33:42 pm
Content-Type: text

Bruce H. Nagel wrote:
|
| You wrote:
| > Nope, it's because variable staging is not consistent with the
| > system. Staging is a reflection of the attacker's skill and the
| > target's ability to resist damage. The better you are (more
| > successes) the better the shot (more damage). The tougher/quicker
| > you are, the less damage you will take. Staging has, and shouldn't,
| > have anything to do with the effectiveness of a weapon A weapon's
| > effectiveness is allready defined by it's the power and base damage
| > level.
|
| I disagree. One success versus a shotgun might not be as much as one success
| versus a pistol.

One success versus a shotgun (Serious Damage) counters 1/6th of the
damage (6 successes required to reduce the damage to nothing). One
success versus a pistol (Moderate Damage) counters 1/4th of the
damage (4 successes required to reduce the damage to nothing).
Variable staging allready exists, it's called Damage Level.

| A point of Body attribute versus a punch is not the same as
| against a bullet.

See above.

| Two things may cause me the same amount of fatigue if I fail to resist them,
| but one might be much harder to resist fully than the other. Some (staging of
| 4+) I almost never resist, but they only cause a light fatigue, perhaps.

That's allready taken care of by the Power. A 12M Drain and a 3M
Drain will cause the same ammount of fatigue, but that 12M is harder
to resist.

I say again, variable staging isn't needed. It's allready in the
system.

| Likewise for the drain of a spell. If you think the drain of
| > a spell should be harder or easier to resist, increase or decrease
| > either the power or the base damage level of the drain. Increasing
| > or decreasing the staging creates a false skewing of the system that
| > isn't needed.
|
| Again, I disagree. It should be much harder to resist suddenly catching fire
| and burning than some other sorts of magical attacks, or more massive influxes
| of damaging mana (in the case of manabolt and powerbolt-type spells).

And again, the Power and the Damage Level combine to accurately
affect the ease with which a character can resist damage from an
Attack/Drain/Whatever.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
Observe your co-worker's interaction with the computer mouse. If he
is using it to manipulate the cursor, he's human. If he's using it
as a foot pedal, he's your boss.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:05:06 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Return of MC23
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Caric once dared to write,

>MC23 and TopCat...can you say oil and water? I think you can. :)
>
>This is gonna be fun!

I feel cheated! So far me and TopCat has gotten along fine. I'll
just have to pick a fight with somebody else. Hey Gurth, remember all
those bad things I said about and later apologized for, well I take it
all back! Now what you goning to do about it?

- MC23, who hasn't been a bully in a while -
"and yo grandma rolls all ones!"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 07:37:51 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Staging
In-Reply-To: <199707100348.VAA14067@******> from "Bruce H. Nagel" at Jul
9,
97 11:45:29 pm
Content-Type: text

Bruce H. Nagel wrote:
|
| Oh, also, it is often much easier to improve the accuracy of a shot than it is
| to dodge it, don't you think? Target numbers alone don't represent that, I
| think. Sorry for not tacking that onto the end of my last post.

Depending on circumstances it can be easier to cause damage than to resist
it (a PAC being fired at a homless person). The opposite is also true (a
homless person (weak and without skills) going berserk and attacking a
special forces troll in full security armor.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand the point of this post.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
Observe your co-worker's interaction with the computer mouse. If he
is using it to manipulate the cursor, he's human. If he's using it
as a foot pedal, he's your boss.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:41:19 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: an idea...
In-Reply-To: <33C488C8.E48EBB7D@********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 10 Jul 1997, Dvixen wrote:

> A sort of idea from skimming the list...
>
> What about a compilation of silly everyday items?
>
> Useful things, maybe, ducttape, flashlights, dunno. I always thought a
> list like that would be cool, in our group we use a catalog. ;)
>
> -Dvixen
>
Actually the "Plastic Warriors" compilations have all that sort of stuff,
and "NERPS Underworld" has a bunch more

no I'm not Gurth ... I just play him on t.v.

regards

Bill
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 07:45:22 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,
In-Reply-To: <199707100331.VAA09924@******> from "Bruce H. Nagel" at Jul
9,
97 11:29:06 pm
Content-Type: text

Bruce H. Nagel wrote:
|
| You wrote:
| > Not a bad idea...I could always post Orgasm to the list. :)
| > It's already up on Loki's page though...got me into a few bars that little
| > guy did.
|
| Okay, I can see this as a popular and funny little spell, but it also has
| certain... moral implications. Seriously, how would you like it if some guy
| came along and made you spontaneously orgasm?

I'd give him 5 bucks, or do you think 10 would be more appropriate? :)

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
Observe your co-worker's interaction with the computer mouse. If he
is using it to manipulate the cursor, he's human. If he's using it
as a foot pedal, he's your boss.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 07:48:36 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Magical Magic
In-Reply-To: <199707100256.UAA02889@******> from "J. Keith Henry" at Jul
9,
97 10:55:27 pm
Content-Type: text

J. Keith Henry wrote:
|
| In a message dated 97-07-09 22:37:24 EDT, dbuehrer@****.ORG (David Buehrer)
| writes:
|
| > Increasing
| > or decreasing the staging creates a false skewing of the system that
| > isn't needed.
| >
| > -David
| >
| Okay, that much you have said (which I snipped for shorter response) I follow
| easily. I was just mentioning another thing I had heard once a long time ago
| (right after 2nd ed came out actually). Oh well.

That's why we post ideas to the list, to have them shot down in flames :)

(See the responses to my post on linking skills to attributes :):)

I don't know about the rest of you, but I've learned an awful lot from
being wrong.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
Observe your co-worker's interaction with the computer mouse. If he
is using it to manipulate the cursor, he's human. If he's using it
as a foot pedal, he's your boss.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 07:50:17 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Women Weapons
In-Reply-To: <199707100206.UAA26206@******> from "Blaze" at Jul 9,
97 03:16:47 am
Content-Type: text

Blaze wrote:
|
| >mARCiN sERkIES wrote:
| >|
| >| >Also, consider some taser weapons
| >|
| >| Good idea... but i.e. my players consider tasers etc. as a women weapons...
| >
|
| WOMEN WEAPONS!!
|
| Whaddyamean!

Blaze, you should take it as a compliment. Check out the taser in
Neo-Anarchists Guide to America (at least I think that's the book).
That taser kicks ass and takes names!

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
Observe your co-worker's interaction with the computer mouse. If he
is using it to manipulate the cursor, he's human. If he's using it
as a foot pedal, he's your boss.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:50:22 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Character Generation
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 02:21 PM 7/9/97 -0600, Adam J wrote:
>but hey, I'm having fun.
>
Then I guess everything's cool all around.

Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/

The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:56:00 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: T'skrang = Sleestaks
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

OK, I was doing a little surfing down memory lane last night, and I
stumbled upon a tribute to Sid and Marty Krofft.
Then it hit me ... finally something even scarier than the bugs!
SLEESTAKS!

Man did those rotten lizard/insect/crab monsters creep me out when I was
younger!

So I'm thinking about how to bring these slimy devils into SR, and it
strikes me that maybe they could be Awakened Iguanas living in Amazonia?
Better yet, maybe those self same Iguanas are also the predecessors of the
T'skrang?

Yeah! And there could be one really creepy one named Enik too! :-)
EGMLOL!

Skylons, and Pylons and Grumpy! Oh my!

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"I will ride the walrus. I will poke the invisible flowers. I have always
known how."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 07:55:38 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: (Skill+Att)/2
In-Reply-To: <199707092048.OAA19646@******> from "Caric" at Jul 9,
97 01:37:02 pm
Content-Type: text

Caric wrote:
|
| David Wrote:
|
| | Loki wrote:
| | |
| | | One of the drawbacks would be here. I'm assuming you mean a maximum of
| | | 1.5x the linked attribute. If you do that, racial maximums are really
| | | going to get in the way. For example a Troll could never become as
| | | good at firearms as a Human, and a Human could never get a higher
| | | Negotiation than an Elf. See what I'm pointing out?
| |
| | Oi. I get the feeling that this idea is deader than roadkill in July
| | (Northern Hemisphere). Ah well, nothing ventured, nothing gained :)
|
| Keep working on it i'm sure that there is a way to set it up the way you
| want.

I don't think so. Cyber-, bioware, and racial modifiers throw the system
way off. And the real problem is that it would require modifying SRs base
target numbers to take that into account, but because it's a base 6 there
isn't enough room to do that. It can't be done :(

Thanks guys for saving me time and work :)

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
Observe your co-worker's interaction with the computer mouse. If he
is using it to manipulate the cursor, he's human. If he's using it
as a foot pedal, he's your boss.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:55:02 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: Mysticism
In-Reply-To: <199707092221.SAA00117@****.ao.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> Well, much as many people here don't seem to like the WW system, if
> you can browse through a copy of thier Umbra book (the Umbra being
> the spiritual world of the Garou) there are some very nice
> metaplanes in there. Now, I haven't re-read that book in quite some
> time, so I'm not too sure of how (or if) they would fit into the SR
> universe of astral and metaplanes neatly, but it seems like a great
> starting place.

For specific Metaplanes, Yeah, sure. Shadowland had a similar
article recently giving a few others I liked. WW's Umbra, however,
is pretty bloody inconsistent, and just doesn't fit into the SR
theme.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 07:43:19 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Karma and Attributes
In-Reply-To: <199707100336.VAA11174@******> from "Loki" at Jul 9,
97 08:33:48 pm
Content-Type: text

Loki wrote:
|
| Keep in mind what the attribute levels represent. A 6 is the biggest
| buffest human known...racial max. Arnie may be a 6, but he may be
| closer to 5.
|
| Granted he wasn't always that buff, and and as you said he started out
| skinny. However, he was skinny with the potential to reach what he is
| today. I wouldn't say he was a sickly or frail skinny...like what a
| body of 1 or 2 might represent. I'd say he was this or that side of
| average...a 3 or 4 which in our system means he'd achieve a 5 or 6
| personal limit (and thus having the potential to achieve human racial
| max).

Well, you're no fun :p :)

Good points one and all.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
Observe your co-worker's interaction with the computer mouse. If he
is using it to manipulate the cursor, he's human. If he's using it
as a foot pedal, he's your boss.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:04:23 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks
In-Reply-To: <199707101355.HAA12851@******> from "Steven A. Tinner" at
Jul 10,
97 09:56:00 am
Content-Type: text

Steven A. Tinner wrote:
|
| OK, I was doing a little surfing down memory lane last night, and I
| stumbled upon a tribute to Sid and Marty Krofft.
| Then it hit me ... finally something even scarier than the bugs!
| SLEESTAKS!

ROFLOL

| Skylons, and Pylons and Grumpy! Oh my!

Don't forget the maze of caves and those talking skulls (*those*
creeped me out).

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
Observe your co-worker's interaction with the computer mouse. If he
is using it to manipulate the cursor, he's human. If he's using it
as a foot pedal, he's your boss.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:10:48 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells -- Level 6?
In-Reply-To: <12B971A13B2@********.uibk.ac.at>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> And that's how I see shadowrunners... Highly able specialists with
> an extremely tough job... They do what no one else can do, risk
> their lifes during every job... And earn big nuyen for it... I
> _hate_ the Dirk-Montgomery-shadowrunner-image. (no, I don't hate the
> novels... just the attitude that Montgomery is the typical
> shadowrunner...)

Heck, in the book, Dirk himself admits that he's just a lurker at the
edges...he's pretty overwhelmed by Argent and the other "real"
shadowrunners.

_BUT_ I usually have my runners start as only a little more
experienced than Dirk.....and hoping to become like
Argent..(Every "Real" runner is a newbie at some point.)...It's just
a style thing. I used to have them be the macho pros, but I had two
problems:

1) They couldn't play it.
2) They didn't have anything to improve.

So I revamped it. Usually (varies with specific character, natch)
they end up seeking something (fame, money, etc) and trying to get by
becoming better runners. Balance this with some social situations,
and you get some very good running. The characters can build
themselves to be the best, but don't start there. If they start
there, they have nowhere to go but down.

-=SwiftOne=-

P.S. 2XS one of my favorite...probably second favorite after
changling.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:17:33 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: [SR3] Karma and Attributes
In-Reply-To: <19970710033348.24277.rocketmail@*****.rocketmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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> Keep in mind what the attribute levels represent. A 6 is the biggest
> buffest human known...racial max. Arnie may be a 6, but he may be
> closer to 5.

I would disagree with this. 6 represents the Maximum Average, ( if
that makes sense). 1.5 times racial max is the buffest ever....max
is a REASONABLE buffest. anything above Racial Max is bloody rare,
and Racial Max is rare, but NOT buffest. I'd say about 25% of the
people going to top universities have the equivilant of INT 6. And
they aren't necessarily the most intelligent ever....just on the
highest end of reasonable.

-=SwiftOne=-
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 15:14:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Greg Wright <greg.wright@*******.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Allergy and exclusivity
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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>
>
>
>
>I have a character with an allergy. Would exposure to it be
>distracting enough to keep them from using an exclusive spell?
>
>I would say, that it depends on how sever the allergie is. if it was only a
>newsonse then as the rules state it has no game effect so i would make it so.
>
>
> Grim Reaper
>( It sure is shocking, when death comes a knocking )
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:09:19 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Re: Allergy and exclusivity
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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> I have a character with an allergy. Would exposure to it be
> distracting enough to keep them from using an exclusive spell?

It all depends on the severity of the allergy..If it is sever..Your
PC will be able to think of little else..if it is mild..Null persp..
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:23:51 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals
In-Reply-To: <199707091638.LAA01887@********.mcit.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Hmmm...I may be misreading this, but I do think that someone should
> be able to use their geas and other rituals at the same time, but I
> don't think that if gesturing is a caster geas that they should get
> a -1 to drain target as well as fulfill the geas with it. If they
> want to gesture to fulfill the geas and then cast the spell
> exclusively then more power to them.

But you forget that before it was required, they could use it to
decrease the drain anyway....so are making getting the geas that much
more harsh? They now need to do it to remove a penalty AND get no
bonus? That makes geasa much more cruel and
detrimental....basically, EVEN WHEN YOU FULFILL the geas, it hurts
you (because you can't get the bonus for the action). I think that
counter the intention of the Geas (a conditional penalty).

> Again with centering I say they can do it and other rituals, but the
> centering itself should count as one of the ritual. I shouldn't be
> able to center for successes and because my centering skill is
> gesturing I also get a -1 to drain TN...cantering is already "using"
> the gestures as part of it I say.

But How do you counter my earlier point....that no one will both
using Centering skills, since it is now more beneficial to simply get
the drain bonus without wasting the Karma for the (almost always)
lesser effect normal Centering provides?

-=SwiftOne=-
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 15:24:56 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: [SR3] Karma and Attributes

MC23 writes
>
> Then maybe the rate you give out Karma should be reviewed. My group
> only gives out 2-3 Karma points a session as a general rule. Karma become
> too valuable to spend on multiple increases that way. Maybe Karma awards
> should be reviewed as well in SR3. They were never too clear to begin
> with in either system.
The ones in the actual SR2 book are fine on the assumption everyone
gets the total kamra and adventures avarage about 3 3-4 hour
sessions. i.e. team = number of pints everyone gets base. There is
some confusion in places as to wetehr team points are divided amongst
the characters (in which case they are pitiful) or given to everyone.

Some of the published advenuters though disreguard the guidleins so
badly, some are worth about 20-30 a PC (often team awards of 5 or so
per bug/toxic shaman reduced to a messy smear) while others which are
twice as nasty award 6-12 each. A bit if GM rewriting using the SR2
awards scale can be much in order.

> We ended up based the awards on Champions and
> GURPS which gave us a level we were comfortable with. Besides, when you
> set a limit on something, players do have a tendency to try to set
> everything at that level. Why else would the rule of 6 at CharGen give so
> many people so many problems. The rule itself is fine, but but people
> still complain about players setting a lot of skills and such at 6.
>
Yes. The one thing about it though that need to be clear in 3rd
edition is is that 6 before or after concentrating and specialising?
I say after some say before, the book nothing.

> with that it sounds like you would get right back to every character with
> attributes of 6. If not now then you will later.
>
Which is why i use '1st FASA, 2nd double FASA, third tripple etc'
because unless you start with Attributes A all 6's in attributes
becomes prohibitively expensive and only the 'built like a tank'
sammies and merc who should thanks the amount of physical stuff they
do be hard as nails end up that way.

Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:32:26 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals
In-Reply-To: <01IL1W3JVDMW9I4V6W@******.acs.muohio.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Allowable, yes. Stackable, no. Letting Centering types stack is
> munchym sorry. Also, most actions that can benefit from Centering
> are Complex Actions anyway... They're using their one Free Action of
> the phase to Center, and their Complex Actions to cast, summon,
> whatevah.

I'd agree, except to say that because of the added role-playing
effect (singing AND dancing is cooler than just one) I'd be a kind GM
and give him an Extra die. (Only 1, regardless of the skill....and
don't tell him why....just say his skill "is reduced" because he's
using two....if he's munchy, he'll keep spending Karma to get more,
hoping for another die. :) ) And that 1 die counts to the same
thing the rest of the centering does.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:26:57 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals
In-Reply-To: <970709132026_1211022002@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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> Now that idea I can actually agree with Steve...it helps in some
> ways.
> Another option that is used here, is if a caster actually has the
> time to
> "build up" for the casting of a spell instead of the heat of combat,
> the drain target is reduced by 1 per complex action of time that
> goes by, similar to the "aiming" modifier used in firearms. The
> maximum it can be reduced is usually half the Intelligence OR the
> Sorcery Skill of the caster, whichever is LESS.

I like it. I made a similar House rule: A force modifier for
initiates....When they learned the spell, they could make it take
longer (up to turns equal to grade, number decided when spell is
learned) and subtract that number from the target number for the
drain. IT seemed pretty balanced, and definitelly adds to the
mysticism....it just seems to make sense that when your body gets
fragged by pitching this kind of power around, it's a little easier
on your to take your time.

-=SwiftOne=-
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:51:31 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Karma and Attributes
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Mark Steedman once dared to write,

>The ones in the actual SR2 book are fine on the assumption everyone
>gets the total karma and adventures average about 3 3-4 hour
>sessions. i.e. team = number of pints everyone gets base. There is
>some confusion in places as to whether team points are divided amongst
>the characters (in which case they are pitiful) or given to everyone.

Which is why clarity is important. That is also why we generally
threw out FASA's system for Karma awards and used what we're used to,
knowing it didn't unbalance the game.

>Some of the published adventures though disregard the guidelines so
>badly, some are worth about 20-30 a PC (often team awards of 5 or so
>per bug/toxic shaman reduced to a messy smear) while others which are
>twice as nasty award 6-12 each. A bit if GM rewriting using the SR2
>awards scale can be much in order.

Those adventures didn't help when it came to understanding the Karma
awards either. SR3 should treat this better.

>Yes. The one thing about it though that need to be clear in 3rd
>edition is is that 6 before or after concentrating and specializing?
>I say after some say before, the book nothing.

Without flipping through the book, I'm damn sure that it is the
unmodified (or should I say Pre-modified) skill stops at six. A modified
skill, or spell (or attribute for meta-humans) can then break the limit
of 6.

>Which is why i use '1st FASA, 2nd double FASA, third triple etc'
>because unless you start with Attributes A all 6's in attributes
>becomes prohibitively expensive and only the 'built like a tank'
>sammies and merc who should thanks the amount of physical stuff they
>do be hard as nails end up that way.

As I've said it works fine for me as well. Once or twice is fine and
a third increase is feasible if the stat was low to begin with. After
that It becomes too much for my friends to spend their points on.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 15:43:09 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals

Brett Borger writes

> detrimental....basically, EVEN WHEN YOU FULFILL the geas, it hurts
> you (because you can't get the bonus for the action). I think that
> counter the intention of the Geas (a conditional penalty).
>
As the system stands you can have a guesture Geas and then sing to
centre, fine, it was the though of folks getting to fulfil a guesture
Geas taken on a spell and get the befefit of centring for the same
gestures that was worrying.

> But How do you counter my earlier point....that no one will both
> using Centering skills, since it is now more beneficial to simply get
> the drain bonus without wasting the Karma for the (almost always)
> lesser effect normal Centering provides?
>
But centring affects drain from summong, penalties to TN's (very
useful particularly kocking DM's back from 6's to 4's it sustaining a
another spell, got a moderate wound etc.) and it is your choice at
the time you cast the spell wether to use centring or not with a geas
you decide when you learn it, mush less flexible.

Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 16:22:35 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals

Brett Borger writes
> > Now that idea I can actually agree with Steve...it helps in some

> > "build up" for the casting of a spell instead of the heat of combat,
> > the drain target is reduced by 1 per complex action of time that
>
> I like it. I made a similar House rule: A force modifier for
> initiates....When they learned the spell, they could make it take
> longer (up to turns equal to grade, number decided when spell is
> learned) and subtract that number from the target number for the
> drain. IT seemed pretty balanced, and definitelly adds to the
> mysticism....it just seems to make sense that when your body gets
> fragged by pitching this kind of power around, it's a little easier
> on your to take your time.
>
On this how many people have seen the 'gathering magic rules'?
Shadowlore 1 i think if memory serves which give something like this
though the method of achieving it is quite different.

Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 16:24:55 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: [SR3] Karma and Attributes

MC23 writes

> Mark Steedman once dared to write,
>
I have an automatic Carp launcher :)

> Which is why clarity is important. That is also why we generally
> threw out FASA's system for Karma awards and used what we're used to,
> knowing it didn't unbalance the game.
Fine though i have found the system in SR2 interpreted as 'karma per
runner' works fine. (unlike the award systems in some games)

> Without flipping through the book, I'm damn sure that it is the
> unmodified (or should I say Pre-modified) skill stops at six. A modified
> skill, or spell (or attribute for meta-humans) can then break the limit
> of 6.
>
For attributes sure, i don't think it says for skills.

Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:32:31 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mike.paff@*****.COM
Subject: Centering vs Penalties (was Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals)

From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
>
> But centring affects drain from summong, penalties to TN's (very
> useful particularly kocking DM's back from 6's to 4's it sustaining a
> another spell, got a moderate wound etc.) and it is your choice at
> the time you cast the spell wether to use centring or not with a geas
> you decide when you learn it, much less flexible.
>
This reminds me of a question I have regarding centering. When casting
an area effect combat spell and centering vs penalties, which TN is used
to determine the results of the centering? I can think of several
possibilities, but I'm not sure which one is correct:

1) The TN corresponding to the target the spell is centered on,
2) The highest TN in the group,
3) The lowest TN in the group (yeah, right), or
4) The average of the TNs in the group.

Any opinions? Which option is used in your groups?

Thanks.

Mike Paff
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:40:12 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lorden <westln@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Staging
In-Reply-To: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG> "Re: [SR3] Staging" (Jul
10,
7:34am)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Jul 10, 7:34am, David Buehrer wrote:
> Subject: Re: [SR3] Staging
> Bruce H. Nagel wrote:
> |
> | You wrote:
> | > Nope, it's because variable staging is not consistent with the
> | > system. Staging is a reflection of the attacker's skill and the
> | > target's ability to resist damage. The better you are (more
> | > successes) the better the shot (more damage). The tougher/quicker
> | > you are, the less damage you will take. Staging has, and shouldn't,
> | > have anything to do with the effectiveness of a weapon A weapon's
> | > effectiveness is allready defined by it's the power and base damage
> | > level.
> |
> | I disagree. One success versus a shotgun might not be as much as one success
> | versus a pistol.
>
> One success versus a shotgun (Serious Damage) counters 1/6th of the
> damage (6 successes required to reduce the damage to nothing). One
> success versus a pistol (Moderate Damage) counters 1/4th of the
> damage (4 successes required to reduce the damage to nothing).
> Variable staging allready exists, it's called Damage Level.
>
> | A point of Body attribute versus a punch is not the same as
> | against a bullet.
>
> See above.
>
> | Two things may cause me the same amount of fatigue if I fail to resist them,
> | but one might be much harder to resist fully than the other. Some (staging of
> | 4+) I almost never resist, but they only cause a light fatigue, perhaps.
>
> That's allready taken care of by the Power. A 12M Drain and a 3M
> Drain will cause the same ammount of fatigue, but that 12M is harder
> to resist.
>
> I say again, variable staging isn't needed. It's allready in the
> system.
>
> | Likewise for the drain of a spell. If you think the drain of
> | > a spell should be harder or easier to resist, increase or decrease
> | > either the power or the base damage level of the drain. Increasing
> | > or decreasing the staging creates a false skewing of the system that
> | > isn't needed.
> |
> | Again, I disagree. It should be much harder to resist suddenly catching fire
> | and burning than some other sorts of magical attacks, or more massive influxes
> | of damaging mana (in the case of manabolt and powerbolt-type spells).
>
> And again, the Power and the Damage Level combine to accurately
> affect the ease with which a character can resist damage from an
> Attack/Drain/Whatever.
>
> -David

>-- End of excerpt from David Buehrer

I have to agree with David that variable staging does exist in the
system currently. However,(is there not always a however) creating
variable staging such as 5m3 or 5m1 does have subtle effects on
the probabilities, that many over look.

It has to do with the shape of the probability curve. By uping the
staging number directly you decrease the chance of doing no damage
or of doing extreme damage. You make it more likely that you will
do a M. The decision to convert to a standard 2 staging and
increasing the power did change the distribution of wound types.
The center of the probability curves stayed the same but the
shape was changed.

What I liked about SR1 variable staging was that it made
weapons different. In SR2 a HP is a HP just about regardless. I
enjoyed the debates between sams as to wether a 4m3 or 5m2 smg
was better. I would argue it depended on who you were shooting.
People who were hard to kill I prefered the 4m3. I'm more likely
to atleast do a light to them. Yet if I'm shooting random
street flotsom, a 5m2 was more likely to kill them out right.

Well that's my 2 cents. If you want I can do the math, showing
that uping the damage code or the power changes the curves
differently than changing the staging number.

--
Nigel westln@***.edu
AKA C. Yossarrian, UPAC Projectionist
AKA Lorden
Speaking for myself, and no one else.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:40:50 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: SR 3rd Ed. comments and questions
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970710001647.006fc4cc@******.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:16 AM 7/10/97 +0200, you wrote:
>At 09:29 9.07.97 -0500, you wrote:
>>That may sound like a lot, but it shouldn't detract from sales of the BBB,
>>rather it could be an additional product for about $10, and include
>>something like the contacts booklet with the GM screen with it, so people
>>would more likely buy it than copy it.
>>It does cost about $7 to copy a CD.
>
>It cost 7$ tu burn CD in normal CD-Writer (like my Yamaha102)
exactly, that's what copying a CD is

The big delimiting factor here is going to be how cheaply FASA can actually
create the master, including all software development.
/-justin@****.mcp.com----------------------jbell@****.mcp.com--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:57:13 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paolo Marcucci <paolo@*********.IT>
Subject: [SRCG] v2.8a
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

It was time, uh?

The new SRCG 2.8a Platform Preview has a nice Export to HTML function, just
what was needed to PRINT correctly your beloved characters. Download from
the archive and unzip right over the srcg.exe program

Bye, Paolo
____________________________________________________________
Paolo Marcucci paolo@*********.it
InterWare Service Provider Trieste, Italy
http://www.interware.it/ Tel. +39-40-360630
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 18:00:27 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: books again
In-Reply-To: <199707101012.MAA09157@******.scc.uni-weimar.de>
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Raven said on 12:17/10 Jul 97...

> for the European players the Germany Sourcebook is a must, more or less,
> if it is the German version it's better 'cause there are lots of nice
> toys in it!

Most of the toys feel like the designers felt they had to make them
"better" than the ones in SRII for some reason. Many have higher magazine
capacities and much lighter weights than equivalent FASA weapons (the H&K
Urban Combat is one of the worst offenders -- an SMG for 1.75 kg, and
let's not forget its Concealability of 18 (!) against scanners).

However, the fact that it _is_ there might be a factor for buying this
book, plus of course that this is the original, whereas the FASA book is
rumored to have lost several things in the translation (the garden gnomes
joke is one of those, IIRC). It is, though, a lot more expensive; I
believe I paid more than 50 guilders (more than US$25) for the German
version, while the English edition would cost me about 15 guilders less.

Not to mention the artwork is only so-so, especially the color archetype
pictures and the equipment illustrations...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Two words: therapy.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:02:50 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Staging
In-Reply-To: <199707101541.JAA24900@******> from "Lorden" at Jul 10,
97 11:40:12 am
Content-Type: text

Lorden wrote:
|
| On Jul 10, 7:34am, David Buehrer wrote:
| >
[snip: staging is allready in the system]
| >
| > ...the Power and the Damage Level combine to accurately
| > affect the ease with which a character can resist damage from an
| > Attack/Drain/Whatever.
|
| I have to agree with David that variable staging does exist in the
| system currently. However,(is there not always a however) creating
| variable staging such as 5m3 or 5m1 does have subtle effects on
| the probabilities, that many over look.

Okay :) statistics aside, each group and each GM have the right to
decide how they want to run their game. I personally don't think
variable staging would add to the game significantly. But, if
someone likes the feel of variable staging then they should go for
it.

| Well that's my 2 cents. If you want I can do the math, showing
| that uping the damage code or the power changes the curves
| differently than changing the staging number.

No thanks :) But the math/curve aspect brings something up, that
variable staging is very complex an requires some serious
statastician skills to balance (does this SMG get a 5M2 or a 4M3?)
and a very good knowledge of the system and its subtleties, IMHO.

If FASA wants to bring back variable staging, fine with me. But I
reserve the right to do it my way.

:),
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:46:39 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals
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| > For this particular gem i would increase the bonuses it infers. It
could
| > really help with that mind probe spell when it's doing 12D drain at
force
| > 6. Maybe "preparation" (I agree it needs a better name, but I
couldn't
| > think of one either :) could lower drain catagory by one and the TN by
2,
| > but it would take several minutes to prepare...like say force+1D6
miutes.

| In some circles (a pun!?!) the term is known as "Entailment" instead of
| Preparation. Something I have done in the past for the Preparation of
some
| things, such as Ritual Sites and Conjuring circles, is that the number of
net
| successes achieved on the preparation work is usable as a bonus magic
pool
| for the operation itself.

Hey that's not a bad idea...not bad at all. It's true that mages have
always had to set up those darn circles, but nothing was ever really done
with them.

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:53:51 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals
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Canthros wrote:

| <>
|
|
| Yeah, people like me:) How about a Free Action per ritual (since things
| like speaking, gesturing, etc are listed as Free Actions).

:)
Well I suppose it depends on how much you have to speak/gesture. Is it
just one word or pointing at your target? Would it be a free action per
ritual?

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:00:06 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Women Weapons
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<snipped the offensive bit :)>

Blaze write:

| WOMEN WEAPONS!!
|
| Whaddyamean!
|
| Cough, splutter, choke, growl, grunt, <grind teeth>
|
| Nope, Pete said I must resist, I _will_ resist..
|
| Growl, mutter, mumble.
|
| - where's that damn carp thrower....

Hey Blaze welcome back? Anyway I think we all know how nasty tasers can
be...in fact I think that Marcin's group (the ones who thought of them as
women weapons) are going to learn very soon just how nasty they can
be...hey "nasty"...maybe they are "women weapons" after all...oops

<sound of running>

"Not the face, not the face!!!!!"

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:03:29 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Babylon 5 Drift (OT, possible B5 spoilers)
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| > Someone has been heard to claim having seen up to episode 18 of
| > season 4 but thats difficult to believe. A least the beginning of
| > season 4 is good though :) awaiting more!
| >
| > Mark
| >
| Okay, I'll fall prey to this, what episode has people in US seen up to?
I
| know of Sheridan's fate and the nifty goings on on Menbar (Starfire).

Possible spoilers for B5

S
P
I
K
E

D
O
N
'
T

R
E
A
D

U
N
L
E
S
S

Y
O
U

W
A
N
T

T
O

Okay, the last new episode that I saw was when Sheridan was being
interrogated after his capture. As to what season this is I can't say, but
Sheridan was turned in by Geribaldi and was being given a stern talking to.
:) It was the best episode I have ever seen.

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:57:11 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals
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Max Wrote:

| ><simple action to push a fraggin' button. Some people will probably say
| >this is too harsh though.>>
|
| >Yeah, people like me:) How about a Free Action per ritual (since things
| >like speaking, gesturing, etc are listed as Free Actions).
|
| Speaking *a single word* is a Free Action, IIRC. Since SR isn't a
| high-fantasy
| world where True Names and Words of Power are extremely important
(they're
| just
| [a] a way to get a Free Spirit by the short hairs and [b] completely
| subjective),
| I'd suggest that Complex Action rituals can be fairly quiet (muttering
your
| arcane incantations while moving fingers furtively), but Free Action
rituals
| must be very obvious (loudly declaiming your Word of Power, raising your
| hand(s)
| in front of you in a bold gesture).

Whoa Max!!! Don't to demonstrate that particular gesture...put the finger
away. ;-)

Anyway this is a pretty good idea also. That way if you do just one
ritual, you can still cast the spell that round, otherwise you have to wait
at least one action.

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:51:48 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals
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| >The problem I find with that is that shielding and masking are both
magical
| >activities that cannot be done when an exclusive spell is being done,
and
| >they are metamagic just like centering...
|
| Is there a page number for this, or is this just speculated. It's just
| that I've never seen this. I'm wondering if this is an interpretation of
| the Exclusive rules, or is it in the Grimthingy?
| Thanks. :)

The fact that centering is a metamagical ability just like shielding and
masking is in the grimmy, but as too whether or not it will interfere with
an exclusive spell isn't documented anywhere AKAIK. Spell defense cannot
be used when casting exclusive spells, so I would extend that limitation to
include shielding as well. Deliberate masking in and of itself is an
exclusive action and therefore cannot be done when a spell is being cast at
all. Normal masking I would say cannot be kept when trying to cast
exclusive spells also IMHO.

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:27:31 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Fetish & Exclusive Spells (suggestions)
In-Reply-To: <970709183337_127050761@*******.mail.aol.com> from "J. Keith
Henry" at Jul 9, 97 06:33:43 pm
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|-Conditional Geasa (Day/Night) -1 Power
|-Conditional Geasa (Night's of the Full Moon, the High Noon of the Summer
|Solstice, etc..) -1 Drain Category

Errrr.....

NO! Geasa are NOT like that! No-one should EVER gain a bonus of any kind from
using a geas. (They get PENALTIES for NOT using them....)

As for the power foci thing..... Eh?
Power foci add to MAGIC and MAGIC POOL. They DO NOT lower drain codes....
(Or are you talking about sacrificing force points from them? If so, it's a
bit expensive, innit?)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:29:05 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: "Shadow" of an Apology (to Gurth- OT)
In-Reply-To: <970709183630_-1593945205@*******.mail.aol.com> from "J. Keith
Henry" at Jul 9, 97 06:36:33 pm
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|Yep, that they are...which would be cool...I hope they keep Jason Carter
|(Marcus), his character is a blast...

From what I heard, the only characters from B5 that would be in it (on a
regular basis) were Marcus and Ivanova. They get on SOOOOO well together....

:)

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:34:47 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks

On Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:56:00 -0400 "Steven A. Tinner"
<bluewizard@*****.COM> writes:
>OK, I was doing a little surfing down memory lane last night, and I
>stumbled upon a tribute to Sid and Marty Krofft.
>Then it hit me ... finally something even scarier than the bugs!
>SLEESTAKS!

Uh...I'm confused. What is a sleestak (for those of us who managed to
miss whatever it is they appeared on/in:)?

--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:32:23 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bryan L. Nylander" <bryan_nylander@****.COM>
Subject: out Fishing
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Quick Newbie question:
how do I disable sends to this account while I am away?

BlkWolf
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:43:21 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Babylon 5 Drift (OT, possible B5 spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <970709225357_1960324112@*******.mail.aol.com> from "J. Keith
Henry" at Jul 9, 97 10:53:59 pm
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|Okay, I'll fall prey to this, what episode has people in US seen up to? I
|know of Sheridan's fate and the nifty goings on on Menbar (Starfire).

OI!

<THWAP>

Before you go on, NO B5 SPOILERS!!!!!

I Don't even want elusive hints like "and the nifty things going on on
Mimbar" (NOT Menbar)....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:49:36 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jackson, Hank" <Hank.Jackson@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: (SR3)Variable staging

>On 9 July, 1997, I wrote:
>> To throw my idea on the table, Why not vary the staging based on the
>> damage to be resisted.
>
On 10 July, 1997, losthalo wrote:
>>Why would you like to see it that way, pray tell?

It was originally just an idea, but, I intend to implement a system
where staging for Light and Mod wounds require 3 successes. I will be
middle of August because my group has disbanded until then. My
reasoning for this comes from some contact swordfighting I have done.
When I began, I would recieve a mortal wound easily. As I advanced, my
wounds would be lessened, but, I would always get some kind of wound no
matter how slight. The very skilled would recieve no wounds of a few
slight ones before completely walking over me. The system will ensure
that almost every conflict will result in some wound, unless the
character is particularly skilled or lucky(i.e. rolls well) Higher
skills lessen the number of such small wounds attained. This will also
make any weapon in the hands of Joe Squatter a threat. I feel that is
closer to reality.

On 9 July, 1997, David Bueher asked:
>And why would a Light be harder to resist than a Deadly wound?
It may not however I did not want my characters having a difficult time
staging down to moderate than to light because characters would did
fast. I want them to feel that they have been in a fight without
blattantly slaughtering them.

Questions, Comments, Derrogatory Statements, Mystic Chants?

>Galen
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:16:22 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,or Bring out your Spells,Bring
out your spells!!!]
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:
| > Not a bad idea...I could always post Orgasm to the list. :)
| > It's already up on Loki's page though...got me into a few bars that
little
| > guy did.
| Okay, I can see this as a popular and funny little spell, but it also has
| certain... moral implications. Seriously, how would you like it if some
guy
| came along and made you spontaneously orgasm?

Well certainly it isn't something that you just cast willy nilly as it does
do stun damage albeit light, but as a shadowrunner I really wasn't overly
concerned about whether it was legal or not...only cast on an unwilling
target twice I think (and one of those was a teammember for there own
good).

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 18:11:50 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks
In-Reply-To: <199707101350.JAA27178@***.ncweb.com> from "Steven A.
Tinner" at
Jul 10, 97 09:56:00 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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|
|OK, I was doing a little surfing down memory lane last night, and I
|stumbled upon a tribute to Sid and Marty Krofft.
|Then it hit me ... finally something even scarier than the bugs!
|SLEESTAKS!

I'm sorry? I have absolutely no idea what you're babbling about....
At all....

WTF is a SLEESTAK??????
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 18:17:31 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Centering vs Penalties (was Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals)
In-Reply-To: <199707101532.IAA01830@*******.> from "mike.paff@*****.COM"
at
Jul 10, 97 08:32:31 am
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|This reminds me of a question I have regarding centering. When casting
|an area effect combat spell and centering vs penalties, which TN is used
|to determine the results of the centering? I can think of several
|possibilities, but I'm not sure which one is correct:
|
| 1) The TN corresponding to the target the spell is centered on,
| 2) The highest TN in the group,
| 3) The lowest TN in the group (yeah, right), or
| 4) The average of the TNs in the group.
|
|Any opinions? Which option is used in your groups?

Do you mean, "What's the T# for the centering skill?".
That is the basic target number for the thing you're doing + penalties.
Successes reduce the penalties of the actual skill/spell you're using....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:21:57 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: [OT] Back in a few...
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Headed to QuinCon over the weekend so I'm going to "nomail" for the next few
days. Try not to post anything interesting or controversial while I'm gone,
'cause I hate going over those archives...

Oh yeah, for those of you who may be interested or in the area, check out
QuinCon (in Quincy, IL) this Friday through Sunday. The Black Hand Demo
Team will be running all the WoD games there and a few of us will be running
SR (there's at least one session of SR each day). It's a lot of fun and
you'll get to meet such volatile list personalities as myself, Mike
Broadwater, and Mike Nelson if you decide to show up. What a deal, eh?
Anyway, check out the QuinCon website (you can wander to it from
www.bcl.net) for the address and list of events.

Seeya Monday ;^D
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:19:42 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Faux Pas (Thomas)" <thomas@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 06:11 PM 7/10/97 +0100, Spike whispered:
>|
>|OK, I was doing a little surfing down memory lane last night, and I
>|stumbled upon a tribute to Sid and Marty Krofft.
>|Then it hit me ... finally something even scarier than the bugs!
>|SLEESTAKS!
>
>I'm sorry? I have absolutely no idea what you're babbling about....
>At all....
>
>WTF is a SLEESTAK??????

Creature from "Land of the Lost", Saturday morning live-action children's
show aired in the United States in mid to late 70s.

-Thomas Deeny
Your Guide to Shadowrun -- http://shadowrun.miningco.com -- updated every
Wednesday!
Thomas's World is http://telltale.hart.org -- come visit!

"First I'm going to bother every one I meet, and then I'll go home and get
drunk."
-Tippy Turtle
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:23:25 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks
In-Reply-To: <8400.199707101711@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> |OK, I was doing a little surfing down memory lane last night, and I
> |stumbled upon a tribute to Sid and Marty Krofft.
> |Then it hit me ... finally something even scarier than the bugs!
> |SLEESTAKS!
>
> I'm sorry? I have absolutely no idea what you're babbling about....
> At all....
>
> WTF is a SLEESTAK??????

I think someone's age is showing, and it is probably me becvause I know
what they were, right along with Wonderbuggy,and Electrowoman and Dynagirl.

Regards

Bill
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:21:07 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mike.paff@*****.COM
Subject: Re: Centering vs Penalties (was Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals)

From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
> | 1) The TN corresponding to the target the spell is centered on,
> | 2) The highest TN in the group,
> | 3) The lowest TN in the group (yeah, right), or
> | 4) The average of the TNs in the group.
> |
> |Any opinions? Which option is used in your groups?
>
> Do you mean, "What's the T# for the centering skill?".
> That is the basic target number for the thing you're doing + penalties.
> Successes reduce the penalties of the actual skill/spell you're using....
>
True, but for an area effect combat spell, there are multiple TNs
involved, one for each target. Which one is used?

Mike Paff
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:44:36 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mARCiN sERkIES <yasiu@******.COM>
Subject: Re: For mARCiN sERkIES [OT] (was Re: SHADOWRUN 3RD EDITION!)
In-Reply-To: <15505.199707092119@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 22:19 9.07.97 +0100, you wrote:
>With me, when I view it, it's wrapped OK, but when I enter the editor and
>his text is quoted, it does the very long line thing.
>
>It's his margins. SET THEM TO 75 CHARACTERS (ish)
>No more than 80....

test test test test test test test test test test test test test test test test test test
test tetst test
yASIu...
e-maIL [yasiu@******.com]
rEAL nAME???? wHAt iS rEAl nAME???
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:40:48 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mARCiN sERkIES <yasiu@******.COM>
Subject: Re: For mARCiN sERkIES [OT] (was Re: SHADOWRUN 3RD EDITION!)
In-Reply-To: <19970710063619.1443.rocketmail@*****.rocketmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 23:36 9.07.97 -0700, you wrote:
>I think it's that his mail is coming through in MIME or some other
>format. I can only read the message if I go into a (R)eply for it.
>I've pasted part of his message as I get to see it below. Note his
>sig, it has some obvious centering and other tags.

I`m trying to change that... maybe i should change mailer... now i`m using
new eudora pro... but not everyone have that problem...

yASIu...
e-maIL [yasiu@******.com]
rEAL nAME???? wHAt iS rEAl nAME???
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:49:36 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mARCiN sERkIES <yasiu@******.COM>
Subject: Re: For mARCiN sERkIES [OT] (was Re: SHADOWRUN 3RD EDITION!)
In-Reply-To: <15497.199707092117@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 22:17 9.07.97 +0100, you wrote:
>It is. My mailer can decode RTF automatically, so it seems, but you should
>only be sending pure ASCII out anyway....
>I don't have a problem, but you ARE sending RTF.....

So it`s problem from me... i`m trying to change that... if i`ll fail, i`ll change
mailer...

yASIu...
e-maIL [yasiu@******.com]
rEAL nAME???? wHAt iS rEAl nAME???
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:48:30 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mARCiN sERkIES <yasiu@******.COM>
Subject: Re: For mARCiN sERkIES [OT] (was Re: SHADOWRUN 3RD EDITION!)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970709162025.007b1830@***.iquest.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 16:20 9.07.97 -0500, you wrote:
>No problem as I am using Eudora as well, but you're sending text as
>Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"

that us-ascii is no problem but how to change text/enriched???

yASIu...
e-maIL [yasiu@******.com]
rEAL nAME???? wHAt iS rEAl nAME???
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:55:51 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mARCiN sERkIES <yasiu@******.COM>
Subject: Re: For mARCiN sERkIES [OT] (was Re: SHADOWRUN 3RD EDITION!)
In-Reply-To: <19970710063619.1443.rocketmail@*****.rocketmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 23:36 9.07.97 -0700, you wrote:
>I think it's that his mail is coming through in MIME or some other
>format. I can only read the message if I go into a (R)eply for it.
>I've pasted part of his message as I get to see it below. Note his
>sig, it has some obvious centering and other tags.
>
>-----Seperator for pasting of Yasiu's message-----
>
>> QUESTION: ANY1 HAVE SIMILIAR PROBLEM ???
>>
>>
>>
>> <center>]-[ yASiU ]-[ aKa mARCiN sERkIES ]-[ e-MAiL -
>yasiu@******.com
>> ]-[ </center>

Maybe it`s because i`ve centered my signature in signatures window in eudora. It`s not
adding spaces but using simple center tag so it can look well on every machine.

yASIu...
e-maIL [yasiu@******.com]
rEAL nAME???? wHAt iS rEAl nAME???
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 18:27:55 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: out Fishing
In-Reply-To: <33C50E97.4B1@****.com> from "Bryan L. Nylander" at Jul 10,
97 09:32:23 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

|
|Quick Newbie question:
| how do I disable sends to this account while I am away?

e-mail listserv@***tproc.itribe.net
subject: none

set shadowrn nomail
end

To get back on again, set shadowrn mail

to unsubscribe totally, use unsubscribe or signoff shadowrn

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:42:34 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mARCiN sERkIES <yasiu@******.COM>
Subject: Re: books again
In-Reply-To: <199707092127.QAA18937@********.mcit.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 14:13 9.07.97 -0700, you wrote:
>| It`s me again with question about books... At friday i`m going to drive
>300km to buy few books. First that i`m sure i`ll buy is SR - second
>edition. Next are StreetSamCatalog, SeattleSourcebook. All of them are used
>but in one piece... so should i buy all of them??? and next i can get
>cybertechnology and germany sourcebook so again should i have them???

>Sounds good. Cybertech is good, but the Geramany sourcebook I would wait
>on. Find out what language it is in...I hear bad things about the German
>version. In fact I would forgo the seattle sourcebook in favor on the
>grimoire definately.

So i`ll buy BBB, cybertech and that Germany Sourcebook is in english.
I can`t buy grimoire now so maybe seattle???

yASIu...
e-maIL [yasiu@******.com]
rEAL nAME???? wHAt iS rEAl nAME???
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:58:55 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mARCiN sERkIES <yasiu@******.COM>
Subject: Re: messages
In-Reply-To: <33C48C96.EE499ECB@********.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 00:17 10.07.97 -0700, you wrote:
>Also, you are sending out html tags. Please look into your mailer
>setting and disable them, or switch to a different mailer. (I'm sure
>everyone would suggest Eudora or Pegasus)

as i said i`m using eudora... it have formatting options but im not using
them. Sorry - i used center tag in signature but now i`ve disabled that so
maybe it`ll be okay...

yASIu...
e-maIL [yasiu@******.com]
rEAL nAME???? wHAt iS rEAl nAME???
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:29:33 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mike.paff@*****.COM
Subject: Re: For mARCiN sERkIES [OT] (was Re: SHADOWRUN 3RD EDITION!)

From: mARCiN sERkIES <yasiu@******.COM>
> I`m trying to change that... maybe i should change mailer... now i`m using
> new eudora pro... but not everyone have that problem...
>
Whatever change you made has fixed things as far as my mailer is
concerned. Thanks.

Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 18:32:46 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970710121941.006ac4e4@***> from "Faux Pas" at Jul
10,
97 12:19:42 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

|Creature from "Land of the Lost", Saturday morning live-action children's
|show aired in the United States in mid to late 70s.

Ahhh, that explains it then. We do get it over here (On the new channel 5),
but after seeing one episode, and realising it was so incredibly cheesy, I
didn't bother with it again....

BRING BACK "VALLEY OF THE DINOSAURS", that's what I say.....

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 18:34:20 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970710122213.5931A-100000@******.tamu.edu> from
"William Monroe Ashe" at Jul 10, 97 12:23:25 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

|I think someone's age is showing, and it is probably me becvause I know
|what they were, right along with Wonderbuggy,and Electrowoman and Dynagirl.

I have a feeling British TV is breathing a sigh of relief of not having
broadcast those.... Am I right?

Speaking of Old TV....

D'you remember "Holmes and Yoyo" or "A man called Sloane"????
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 18:35:06 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Centering vs Penalties (was Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals)
In-Reply-To: <199707101721.KAA01954@*******.> from "mike.paff@*****.COM"
at
Jul 10, 97 10:21:07 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

|True, but for an area effect combat spell, there are multiple TNs
|involved, one for each target. Which one is used?

I'd rule the highest.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 18:39:23 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: For mARCiN sERkIES [OT] (was Re: SHADOWRUN 3RD EDITION!)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970710104936.007022e8@******.com> from "mARCiN
sERkIES" at Jul 10, 97 10:49:36 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

|
|At 22:17 9.07.97 +0100, you wrote:
|>It is. My mailer can decode RTF automatically, so it seems, but you should
|>only be sending pure ASCII out anyway....
|>I don't have a problem, but you ARE sending RTF.....
|
|So it`s problem from me... i`m trying to change that... if i`ll fail, i`ll change
mailer...

Well, the RTF thing is fixed. You're sending pure ASCII now... But....

This is what you just typed looks like from my editor.....
|So it's problem from me... i's trying to change that... if i'll fail, i'll cha

(And you appear to be using the wrong apostrophe... This editor
interpreted the one you used as some kind of escape character....)

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 18:41:08 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: For mARCiN sERkIES [OT] (was Re: SHADOWRUN 3RD EDITION!)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970710104830.007022e8@******.com> from "mARCiN
sERkIES" at Jul 10, 97 10:48:30 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

|
|At 16:20 9.07.97 -0500, you wrote:
|>No problem as I am using Eudora as well, but you're sending text as
|>Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"
|
|that us-ascii is no problem but how to change text/enriched???

No need to worry about that now. You ARE sending pure ASCII....
Your margins still need fixing though...
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:39:07 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: For mARCiN sERkIES [OT] (was Re: SHADOWRUN 3RD EDITION!)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970710104436.007022e8@******.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:44 AM 7/10/97 +0200, you wrote:
>At 22:19 9.07.97 +0100, you wrote:
>>With me, when I view it, it's wrapped OK, but when I enter the editor and
>>his text is quoted, it does the very long line thing.
>>
>>It's his margins. SET THEM TO 75 CHARACTERS (ish)
>>No more than 80....
>
>test test test test test test test test test test test test test test test
test test test test tetst test
>yASIu...
>e-maIL [yasiu@******.com]
>rEAL nAME???? wHAt iS rEAl nAME???
>
nope
you need to use line breaks.

>
--
/-justin@****.mcp.com----------------------jbell@****.mcp.com--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:52:39 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@*****.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: messages
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970710105855.00701ec8@******.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

On 10 Jul 97 at 10:58, mARCiN sERkIES wrote:

> At 00:17 10.07.97 -0700, you wrote:
> >Also, you are sending out html tags. Please look into your mailer
> >setting and disable them, or switch to a different mailer. (I'm sure
> >everyone would suggest Eudora or Pegasus)
>
> as i said i`m using eudora... it have formatting options but im not using
> them. Sorry - i used center tag in signature but now i`ve disabled that so
> maybe it`ll be okay...
>
>
> yASIu...
> e-maIL [yasiu@******.com]
> rEAL nAME???? wHAt iS rEAl nAME???
>

That message was perfect, Marcin. Looks like you got it!
Congrats!

--
=DREKHEAD========================================================
drekhead@***.net --- http://users.aol.com/drekhead/home.html ---
=================================================================
=================================================================
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot
stomping on a human face...forever. -George Orwell
=================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:51:05 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 09:56 AM 7/10/97 -0400, Steven A. Tinner wrote these timeless words:
>OK, I was doing a little surfing down memory lane last night, and I
>stumbled upon a tribute to Sid and Marty Krofft.
>Then it hit me ... finally something even scarier than the bugs!
>SLEESTAKS!
>
>Man did those rotten lizard/insect/crab monsters creep me out when I was
>younger!
>
>So I'm thinking about how to bring these slimy devils into SR, and it
>strikes me that maybe they could be Awakened Iguanas living in Amazonia?
>Better yet, maybe those self same Iguanas are also the predecessors of the
>T'skrang?
>
>Yeah! And there could be one really creepy one named Enik too! :-)
>EGMLOL!
>
>Skylons, and Pylons and Grumpy! Oh my!
>
You are one sick individual, Tinner... Remind me to avoid Amazonia from now
on...:]

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:58:15 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: High Pain Tolerance
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi folks. I have a question about the Phys Ad power Pain Tolerance, and
consequently, the edge High Pain Tolerance.

Do you treat 6 boxes of Pain Tolerance as giving the PC immunity to wound
modifiers for a TOTAL of 6 boxes of damage (whether stun or physical, or
both), or do you treat it as being immune to 6 boxes of wound modifiers on
both tracks (physical and stun) at the same time (i.e. a player can have 6
boxes of physical damage AND 6 boxes of stun without suffering from any
wound modifiers)?

Also, do you allow a character who has broken their limit in Pain Tolerance
to ignore wound modifiers when they heal below their level of Pain
Tolerance? For example, someone with 6 boxes of pain tolerance takes 8
boxes of physical damage. When he gets down to 6 boxes, do you rule that
he has no wound modifiers again?

Thanks!

Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:07:45 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: messages
In-Reply-To: <199707101735.LAA06799@******> from "mARCiN sERkIES" at Jul
10,
97 10:58:55 am
Content-Type: text

mARCiN sERkIES wrote:
|
| as i said i`m using eudora... it have formatting options but im not using
| them. Sorry - i used center tag in signature but now i`ve disabled that so
| maybe it`ll be okay...

Go to Tools, then Options, then Sending Mail. Click on the Word Wrap box.
That will take care of the long lines. This post looked fine, but I don't
know if you activated the word wrap function or hit the carriage return on
each line.

| yASIu...
| e-maIL [yasiu@******.com]
| rEAL nAME???? wHAt iS rEAl nAME???

Much better :)

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:09:08 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks
In-Reply-To: <199707101738.LAA07080@******> from "Spike" at Jul 10,
97 06:32:46 pm
Content-Type: text

Spike wrote:
|
| |Creature from "Land of the Lost", Saturday morning live-action children's
| |show aired in the United States in mid to late 70s.
|
| Ahhh, that explains it then. We do get it over here (On the new channel 5),
| but after seeing one episode, and realising it was so incredibly cheesy, I
| didn't bother with it again....

But it's so good *because* its so cheesy :) BTW, there is a new 90's
vesion that is indeed crap. Avoid that one.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:25:00 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@*****.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks
In-Reply-To: <8571.199707101734@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

On 10 Jul 97 at 18:34, Spike wrote:

> D'you remember "Holmes and Yoyo" or "A man called Sloane"????

Was Holmes and Yoyo that show with John Schuck as an android?

--

=DREKHEAD========================================================
drekhead@***.net --- http://users.aol.com/drekhead/home.html ---
=================================================================
=================================================================
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot
stomping on a human face...forever. -George Orwell
=================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:29:54 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 06:11 PM 7/10/97 +0100, Spike wrote these timeless words:
>|
>|OK, I was doing a little surfing down memory lane last night, and I
>|stumbled upon a tribute to Sid and Marty Krofft.
>|Then it hit me ... finally something even scarier than the bugs!
>|SLEESTAKS!
>
>I'm sorry? I have absolutely no idea what you're babbling about....
>At all....
>
>WTF is a SLEESTAK??????
>
They were this race of Dinosaur/Lizard Men in the 70's children's show Land
of the Lost.

C'mon, Spikey... Don;t tell me England didn;t get those wonderful Sid and
marty Kroft shows...:]

BTW: anyone know if there were Sleestacks on the remake of LotL that was
on a few years back? I never did mange to ctahc the show, and heard it was
pretty lame, but...

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:29:57 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 06:34 PM 7/10/97 +0100, Spike wrote these timeless words:
>|I think someone's age is showing, and it is probably me becvause I know
>|what they were, right along with Wonderbuggy,and Electrowoman and Dynagirl.
>
>I have a feeling British TV is breathing a sigh of relief of not having
>broadcast those.... Am I right?
>

Those were Classic live action kids shows, though. I LOVED WOnderbuggy.
LotL was great, and the other two were so-so (For me, anyways:)).

They rank up there with the Banana Splits. Great when we were kids, but
damned painful to watch now. They were true period pieces.

(And I didn;t recognize those shows you mentions, Spike, though they might
be too old for me. Remember, you're 8 years ol... errr, i mean 1 year
YOUNGER than me...:))

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:16:57 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks
In-Reply-To: <199707101809.MAA10052@******> from "David Buehrer" at Jul
10,
97 12:09:08 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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|But it's so good *because* its so cheesy :) BTW, there is a new 90's
|vesion that is indeed crap. Avoid that one.

Does it start with a crappy song?
I think that's the one I saw. It didn't look very 1970's....

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:18:10 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks
In-Reply-To: <199707101821.OAA31323@www.ctghub.com>; from "Drekhead" at
Jul 10,
97 02:25:00 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

|
|On 10 Jul 97 at 18:34, Spike wrote:
|
|> D'you remember "Holmes and Yoyo" or "A man called Sloane"????
|
|Was Holmes and Yoyo that show with John Schuck as an android?

That's the one....

The bunko squad/the bunko squad/the bunko squad >*thumps chest*<
That's better....

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:19:04 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970710140853.21df9210@*****.com> from "Bull" at
Jul 10,
97 02:29:54 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

|C'mon, Spikey... Don;t tell me England didn;t get those wonderful Sid and
|marty Kroft shows...:]

Who and who? Never heard of 'em....

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:23:49 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970710141215.20e7aaf6@*****.com> from "Bull" at
Jul 10,
97 02:29:57 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

|They rank up there with the Banana Splits. Great when we were kids, but
|damned painful to watch now. They were true period pieces.

Except for "The 3 musketeers" and "The Arabian Knights" you mean.
They were just as good now as they where in the '70s.
(The actual Banana Splits bits were cringeworthy though.....)

|(And I didn;t recognize those shows you mentions, Spike, though they might
|be too old for me. Remember, you're 8 years ol... errr, i mean 1 year
|YOUNGER than me...:))

Almost had the carp ready then Bull....
Holmes and Yoyo was about a cop who finds out (at the end of the pilot) that
his partner is an Android. (Created by a professor Yoyologist, hence the
name).

A man called sloane was quite a good spy series in the James Bond, In like
Flint vein....

The pilot involved a dehydration machine. I can still see him skiing down a
hill and the snow vanishing behind him as the beam catches up.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 15:35:21 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Optional Metatypes, part 3: Sasquatch
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Here's the newest installment of my Optional Metatypes: the Sasquatch.

Sasquatch characters are limited due to their lack of comprehensible
speech, but they can use sign language to communicate, and can imitate
sounds with a high degree of skill.

Despite being recognized as a sentient species in 2042, they are still
considered little more than animals by most of (meta)humanity, and at best,
are considered to be smart pets. Few pople treat them like equals, making
thier lives harsh when they choose to live among pople. most offten,
Sasquatch live in the woods, solitary or with others of their kind.

As with all Optional Metatypes, great care should be used in allowing
players to play this race, as there is more roleplaying potential, as well
as the potential for abuse.

A high percentage of Sasquatch are magically active, with Shamans being the
majority of the magically active. Most often Sasquatch follow forest
totems, though city dwelling Sasquatch will sometimes follow city totems as
well.

Sasquatch are capable of getting cyberware, though any sort of vocal or
throat cyberware will damage their mimicing abilities. Also, even
cyberware designed to restore speach will not enable a Sasquatch to speak.
They simply cannot connect words with comprehensible speech patterns.

Bonuses: Mimicking Capabilities, +2 Body, +1 Strength, +1 reach

Penalties: Lack of speech capability, -1 Willpower, -1 Charisma

Well kids, have fun.

Bull-the-creating-the-metatypes-Ork-Decker
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 15:53:20 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: [OT] Sid and Marty Krofft (was Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 08:19 PM 7/10/97 +0100, Spike wrote these timeless words:
>|C'mon, Spikey... Don;t tell me England didn;t get those wonderful Sid and
>|marty Kroft shows...:]
>
>Who and who? Never heard of 'em....
>
Sid and Marty Krofft (Sorry, I mispelled it earlier, there are 2 F's in the
last name) were responisble for a LOT of live action shows from about the
late 60's through the early 80's including The land of the Lost (A family
goes over a waterfall and becomes trapped in a dinosaur world), Wonderbuggy
(A talking dune buggy), Dynagirl and Electrawoman (Ummm, female superhero
types. never really watched that show), The Bugaloos (4 Teenage humanoid
insects who had a eock band), Sigumund teh Seamonster (A friendly sea
monster that makes friends with a couple kids), H.R.Puffenstuff (An acid
trip if ever there was one, including a magic talking Freddie teh Flute.
Draw your own conclusions from that), and a LOT more.

Most were only one for a season or two, though some managed to handg in for
4 or 5 years. If you see any 1970's show with a giant puppet suit and an
oversized head, tehre's a 90% chance that it was a Krofft production.

Anyways, this trip down memory lane to bad 70's Children Shows was brought
to you courtesy of my faulty memory and the booklet in my Best of Saturday
Morning Cartoon CD. If you've never heard the CD, go find a copy of it!
You won;t be disappointed...

Back to SR...

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:57:13 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: For mARCiN sERkIES [OT] (was Re: SHADOWRUN 3RD EDITION!)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

---mARCiN sERkIES wrote:
>
> test test test test test test test test test test test test test
test test test test test test tetst test
> yASIu...
> e-maIL [yasiu@******.com]
> rEAL nAME???? wHAt iS rEAl nAME???

This one came through OK.

===
@>--,--'--- Loki

Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/

"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 15:01:18 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [OT] Sid and Marty Krofft (was Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970710155138.20e72a58@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 10 Jul 1997, Bull wrote:

> Anyways, this trip down memory lane to bad 70's Children Shows was brought
> to you courtesy of my faulty memory and the booklet in my Best of Saturday
> Morning Cartoon CD. If you've never heard the CD, go find a copy of it!
> You won;t be disappointed...
>
I love the Butthole Surfers version of "Underdog"

Bill
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:02:44 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks
In-Reply-To: <199707101917.NAA14963@******> from "Spike" at Jul 10,
97 08:16:57 pm
Content-Type: text

Spike wrote:
|
| |But it's so good *because* its so cheesy :) BTW, there is a new 90's
| |vesion that is indeed crap. Avoid that one.
|
| Does it start with a crappy song?
| I think that's the one I saw. It didn't look very 1970's....

The original LotL starts off with "Marshal, Will and Holly. On a
routine expidition..." They're in a life raft, with one of the worst
blue-screens onto a fake river that I've ever seen, as an earthquake
changes the course of the river and plunges them into a fog filled
abys. They wake up (still in the life raft) in the Land of the Lost
with a T-Rex checking them out.

The remake starts off with the characters in a cosmetically enhanced
land-rover that gets sucked underground and into another dimension by
an earthquake.

Check out the original if you get a chance. Stick with it and it'll
grow on you :)

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:41:45 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Return of MC23
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

MC23 Spouted:

| >MC23 and TopCat...can you say oil and water? I think you can. :)
| >
| >This is gonna be fun!
|
| I feel cheated! So far me and TopCat has gotten along fine. I'll
| just have to pick a fight with somebody else. Hey Gurth, remember all
| those bad things I said about and later apologized for, well I take it
| all back! Now what you goning to do about it?

Hmmm...ya know you're right.

<sound of struggle as I stuff MC23 and TopCat into a mayo jar together>

*shake* *shake* *shake*

Come on fight!!!

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:21:29 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: books again
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

| > Sounds good. Cybertech is good, but the Geramany sourcebook I would
wait
| > on. Find out what language it is in...I hear bad things about the
German
| > version. In fact I would forgo the seattle sourcebook in favor on the
| > grimoire definately.
| Hey Caric, what things are bad about the Germany book in german????
| IMO its better than the english version (I prefer the originals) and
| it has a few add-ons in it. I read the english version of that book
| and still think the german one is far better (if you can do the
| language)

Hmmm Raven I may have been mistaken. I know that there have been major
gripes about the Germany Sourcebook, but it may have been about the english
version...I have never seen the german version so I don't know. Over all
placec books tend to be not liked ny ppl who live in that place however so
who knows.

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:53:15 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

| > Hmmm...I may be misreading this, but I do think that someone should
| > be able to use their geas and other rituals at the same time, but I
| > don't think that if gesturing is a caster geas that they should get
| > a -1 to drain target as well as fulfill the geas with it. If they
| > want to gesture to fulfill the geas and then cast the spell
| > exclusively then more power to them.
|
| But you forget that before it was required, they could use it to
| decrease the drain anyway....so are making getting the geas that much
| more harsh? They now need to do it to remove a penalty AND get no
| bonus? That makes geasa much more cruel and
| detrimental....basically, EVEN WHEN YOU FULFILL the geas, it hurts
| you (because you can't get the bonus for the action). I think that
| counter the intention of the Geas (a conditional penalty).

A geasa should be a detriment period IMO...they shouldn't get any kind of
bonus for doing something that they have to do anyway. If they want the
bonus they can still use another ritual, but if he person didn't want a
geas they shouldn't have put in the extra ware, or been more careful. Now
this may seem harsh, but they can get rid of the geas later with initiation
and, why bother if you do it anyway and get a bonus for it?

| > Again with centering I say they can do it and other rituals, but the
| > centering itself should count as one of the ritual. I shouldn't be
| > able to center for successes and because my centering skill is
| > gesturing I also get a -1 to drain TN...cantering is already "using"
| > the gestures as part of it I say.
|
| But How do you counter my earlier point....that no one will both
| using Centering skills, since it is now more beneficial to simply get
| the drain bonus without wasting the Karma for the (almost always)
| lesser effect normal Centering provides?

I think that you and I have had much different experiences with centering
then. Centering is probably one of the most powerful metamagical abilities
in our game, it is worth FAR more than -1 to your drain target number.
Centering skills cost karma yes, but overall the benefits are definately
worth it.

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 22:41:08 +0000
Reply-To: shadowrn@********.ITRIBE.NET
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <goll1@********.hab-weimar.de>
From: Raven <florian.goll@******.UNI-WEIMAR.DE>
Subject: Re: cyberware and it's effects on the psyche and body
In-Reply-To: <199707101057.MAA14083@**********.xs4all.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Gurth spoke wisely
> None that we know of. Cyberpsychosis doesn't exist in SR *chants to self
> "Don't start that thread! Don't start that thread!"*

Do you think this will help????
Okay guys, who wants Cyberpsychosis in SR ;)

(Raven, donning his Asbestos Underwear(TM?), resuplying his
carp-shelter and hides in it)
--Raven

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCC/MC/SS>$ d-(?) s:+>: !a>? C++(+)@ LSX P L+ E+ W++ N o? K-
w+ O M+ V PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5+ X+++ R* tv+(++) b+++ DI? D+
G(++) e>++++ h--(---) !r z?
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:59:28 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Karma and Attributes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

| MC23 writes
| >
| > Then maybe the rate you give out Karma should be reviewed. My
group
| > only gives out 2-3 Karma points a session as a general rule. Karma
become
| > too valuable to spend on multiple increases that way. Maybe Karma
awards
| > should be reviewed as well in SR3. They were never too clear to begin
| > with in either system.

As a player in Loki's game I can safely say that the karma awards for our
group are not out of hand, in fact several ppl in our group have voiced
concerns that they are to low. We probably average between
1-2 karma per gaming session depending of course on what we were doing. I
agree that they weren't too clear however. As far as the attribute
raising, Loki may have been misleading in the time frame. What we wanted
to avoid is all characters having the same potential for their attributes.
It went against the players who had used the points to start with higher
attributes. If you start with a strength of 1 I just can't see you getting
it to 9 eventually...or even 6. Now you can go to 2 (we round up) and if
you want higher than that, get some 'ware, or use magic. It also helps
keep down the guys with attributes of 14 and 15 as humans, you may see one
every once in a blue moon, but VERY rarely.

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 21:05:06 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] Sid and Marty Krofft (was Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970710155138.20e72a58@*****.com> from "Bull" at
Jul 10,
97 03:53:20 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

H.R.Puffenstuff (An acid
|trip if ever there was one, including a magic talking Freddie teh Flute.
|Draw your own conclusions from that), and a LOT more.

AT LAST! One that I recognise! Seen the film, would LOVE to see the series.
Alas, it's not been on for 20+ years over here.....

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 21:06:25 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks
In-Reply-To: <199707102002.OAA18396@******> from "David Buehrer" at Jul
10,
97 02:02:44 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

|The remake starts off with the characters in a cosmetically enhanced
|land-rover that gets sucked underground and into another dimension by
|an earthquake.

*sigh* That's the one....

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:26:45 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

---"Steven A. Tinner" wrote:
>
> OK, I was doing a little surfing down memory lane last night, and I
> stumbled upon a tribute to Sid and Marty Krofft.
> Then it hit me ... finally something even scarier than the bugs!
> SLEESTAKS!
>
> Man did those rotten lizard/insect/crab monsters creep me out when I
was
> younger!

OK, maybe I'm out of touch here, but what is a Sleestak. The closest
I'm coming in memory to what you're kind of describing is a Skeksie
(sp?) from Jim Henson's "Dark Crystal" movie.

Fill me in.

===
@>--,--'--- Loki

Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/

"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:53:10 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mARCiN sERkIES <yasiu@******.COM>
Subject: ideas
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I`ve just read "Fantastyka" - polish s/f magazine. Inside was few stories.
My idea comes from one of them - "Good Rat" by Aleen Steele IIRC. In future
RAT is guy(or girl) that is working as an experimental rat. Lots of
pharmaceutical companies prefer to test chemicals on humans. So about that
idea - players can be hired by someone, who worked as a rat (or by family
of rat), and that experiment was tragical. Players should get inside, get
that medicine which were used on rat because it can be used as a proof
againist that compamy. It`s easy, because they can work as a rat. No
problem but this work is not good for health :))

Second is flood in little or medium city. Now in southern part of Poland we
have greatest flood of last 100 years. In my city (bigest in area and very
well prepared for wave (7.5 meters big)) ppl are panicked. Today (thursday)
you cannot buy milk, bread, mineral water etc. So tommorow will be worse
situation. I think that in smaller cities it`s worse. And realize, how
it`ll be, if ppl will have weapons. BTW: today city council decided to
break some barriers on river and flood few villages just to minimize wave
that will come to my city. I`m just thinking how ppl there are feeling
now... they have to move because if they`ll stay - they`ll die. Again -
realize these ppl with weapons etc... small civil war...

yASIu...
e-maIL [yasiu@******.com]
rEAL nAME???? wHAt iS rEAl nAME???
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 19:43:39 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mARCiN sERkIES <yasiu@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Surgery costs
In-Reply-To: <12B4F514232@********.uibk.ac.at>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:44 10.07.97 +0100, you wrote:
>But developing and building the Item in question is a long and hard
>task, too. And if the surgery is that expensive, the differences in
>cost between the cyber- and bioware items would literally vanish..

I think that hardware is less expesive than surgery. Just look on Pathfinder project.
Pathfinder cost 150.000.000USD but launching of it, landing etc. was far more expensive.
Same thing with cyberware i think

yASIu...
e-maIL [yasiu@******.com]
rEAL nAME???? wHAt iS rEAl nAME???
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 19:46:12 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mARCiN sERkIES <yasiu@******.COM>
Subject: Re: For mARCiN sERkIES [OT] (was Re: SHADOWRUN 3RD EDITION!)
In-Reply-To: <199707101249.GAA04348@******>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 06:49 10.07.97 -0600, you wrote:
>The posts you quote come through double-spaced. And your posts come
>through as one long line. Is there a word-wrap option for outgoing
>messages on your mailer?

yes... but now i`m going to change to pegasus...

yASIu...
e-maIL [yasiu@******.com]
rEAL nAME???? wHAt iS rEAl nAME???
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 20:36:08 -0700
Reply-To: twowolfe@*******.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: stephen wolfe <twowolfe@*******.NET>
Subject: Animals
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In real life i work with animals.

So my qestion is what happend to the animals
like horses and cows and things ??
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:09:26 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: High Pain Tolerance
In-Reply-To: <199707101758.NAA15345@****.provide.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> Hi folks. I have a question about the Phys Ad power Pain Tolerance,
> and consequently, the edge High Pain Tolerance.

BTW, I have word from FASAMike on part of this. :"As a GM, I would
not allow a character to take both Pain Resistance and High PAin
Tolerance". That GM bit means it isn't official. Nice dodge, eh?

> Do you treat 6 boxes of Pain Tolerance as giving the PC immunity to
> wound modifiers for a TOTAL of 6 boxes of damage (whether stun or
> physical, or both), or do you treat it as being immune to 6 boxes of
> wound modifiers on both tracks (physical and stun) at the same time

I believe the book makes it fairly clear that it treats EACH track
separately. (6 on each, each passed independently of the other)

> Also, do you allow a character who has broken their limit in Pain
> Tolerance to ignore wound modifiers when they heal below their level

nope. If you have PT of 6, at 6 boxes you have no penalties, and at
7 you have Serious Penalties. Also fairly clearly stated, (IMHO).
(Not ripping on you, just saying it isn't a "gray" area.)

-=SwiftOne=-
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:10:56 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: [SR3] Fetish & Exclusive Spells (suggestions)
In-Reply-To: <8205.199707101627@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> |-Conditional Geasa (Day/Night) -1 Power
> |-Conditional Geasa (Night's of the Full Moon, the High Noon of the Summer
> |Solstice, etc..) -1 Drain Category
> NO! Geasa are NOT like that! No-one should EVER gain a bonus of any
> kind from using a geas. (They get PENALTIES for NOT using them....)
Um, Spike? not to be rude....but I think you missed the beggining of
this thread where Steve Kenson was talking about MAKING geasa work
differently for SR3.

-=SwiftOne=-
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:14:41 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Sid and Marty Krofft (was Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Spike once dared to write,

>>H.R.Puffenstuff (An acid
>>trip if ever there was one, including a magic talking Freddie the Flute.
>>Draw your own conclusions from that), and a LOT more.
>
>AT LAST! One that I recognize! Seen the film, would LOVE to see the series.
>Alas, it's not been on for 20+ years over here.....

Would LOVE to see the series? I salute your dementia but I lose
respect for your taste.

- MC23, who is currently lurking on a local gothic list, lying in wait -
"Ah, to deflate the pretentious"

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:17:16 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Optional Metatypes, part 3: Sasquatch
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 15:35 7/10/97 -0400, Bull wrote:
>Sasquatch characters are limited due to their lack of comprehensible
>speech, but they can use sign language to communicate, and can imitate
>sounds with a high degree of skill.

Here's a piece of gear I came up with a while ago, using some existing
pieces of Shadowrun technology:

* It's easy to get a heads-up display in a pair of goggles.
* Speech recognition is good enough for drones to take spoken commands.
* Sound filtering is very good (as in the Select Sound Filter).
* The problems of defining language programmatically have been solved
well enough to create linguasofts.

The gear is basically a set of glasses or goggles, Sasquatch-sized, with
microphones mounted on the temples. The microphones feed in to a computer
which recognizes separate voices and determines their location. (There
may be an ultrasound device or some other mapping function to help the
computer figure out where people are.) The computer then interprets the
speech, parses it, and does its best to create a translation into
Perkins-Athapascan. It then displays ghostly hands moving in Perkins-
Athapascan sign language, hovering in front of any person who's speaking.

The device will probably be confused by crowds, people with similar vocal
timbres, and bad acoustic environments, but it should make it possible for
the Sasquatch to pick up on what people are saying to a limited degree.

Similarly, if the Sasquatch is wearing datagloves (which could easily be
a fine mesh that lets the Sasquatch's fur through), the computer can take
Perkins-Athapascan input and attempt to produce English output.

--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "So, an Arisian, a Vorlon, and a knnn go into a tavern..." %%
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:17:44 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals
In-Reply-To: <199707102004.QAA12086@********.mcit.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> A geasa should be a detriment period IMO...they shouldn't get any
> kind of bonus for doing something that they have to do anyway. If
> they want the bonus they can still use another ritual, but if he
> person didn't want a geas they shouldn't have put in the extra ware,
> or been more careful. Now this may seem harsh, but they can get rid
> of the geas later with initiation and, why bother if you do it
> anyway and get a bonus for it?

Because the Bonus isn't anything special in this case....the bonus is
something you would have had ANYWAY. It's the same idea of Geasa
now:

If you do it, no penalty
If you don't, penalty.

With the new system you'd have the same modifiers as without the NEED
for the geas only if you did it.

Your argument is valid if the geas only give benefits to those who
need it, but since the benefit goes all around, it seems strange to
REMOVE the benefit when you make it (semi) mandatory.

> | But How do you counter my earlier point....that no one will both
> | using Centering skills, since it is now more beneficial to simply get
> | the drain bonus without wasting the Karma for the (almost always)
> | lesser effect normal Centering provides?
>
> I think that you and I have had much different experiences with
> centering then. Centering is probably one of the most powerful
> metamagical abilities in our game, it is worth FAR more than -1 to
> your drain target number. Centering skills cost karma yes, but
> overall the benefits are definately worth it.

Maybe. In My experience, by the time you spend enough Karma to get a
decent skill, you can get:
2 extra successes at target 4 for drain OR success
or -1 target if your target is 5+.

-=SwiftOne=-
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:24:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Optional Metatypes, part 3: Sasquatch
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:17 PM 7/10/97 -0800, Max Rible wrote these timeless words:

>Similarly, if the Sasquatch is wearing datagloves (which could easily be
>a fine mesh that lets the Sasquatch's fur through), the computer can take
>Perkins-Athapascan input and attempt to produce English output.
>
Actually, as far as I can tell, Sasquatch CAN understand the spoken
languange. they just can't speak a language.

That's just always been my impression, at least...;]

Bull

--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:28:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: High Pain Tolerance
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
> Date: Thursday, July 10, 1997 6:09 PM

> > Hi folks. I have a question about the Phys Ad power Pain Tolerance,
> > and consequently, the edge High Pain Tolerance.

> BTW, I have word from FASAMike on part of this. :"As a GM, I would
> not allow a character to take both Pain Resistance and High PAin
> Tolerance". That GM bit means it isn't official. Nice dodge, eh?

I have to agree with him as a GM. :0

> > Do you treat 6 boxes of Pain Tolerance as giving the PC immunity to
> > wound modifiers for a TOTAL of 6 boxes of damage (whether stun or
> > physical, or both), or do you treat it as being immune to 6 boxes of
> > wound modifiers on both tracks (physical and stun) at the same time

> I believe the book makes it fairly clear that it treats EACH track
> separately. (6 on each, each passed independently of the other)

SRII BBB Page 127:

"Points purchased work equally on both the Physical and Stun Condition
Monitors"

That is actually a bit ambiguous. It could be taken to mean that this
power can be applied to either the Physical or the Stun condition monitors,
or it could mean that you get an equal number of boxes on each condition
monitor, for a total of twice as many boxes as purchased. I don't see this
as fairly clear. I see it as muddy. ;)

> > Also, do you allow a character who has broken their limit in Pain
> > Tolerance to ignore wound modifiers when they heal below their level

> nope. If you have PT of 6, at 6 boxes you have no penalties, and at
> 7 you have Serious Penalties. Also fairly clearly stated, (IMHO).
> (Not ripping on you, just saying it isn't a "gray" area.)

I agree with you, but you missed the point of the question. My question
*looking above* had to do when the character healed to a level normally
within their pain tolerance. Now what is your opinion?

> -=SwiftOne=-

Thanks for the reply. :)

Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:24:48 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Centering vs Penalties (was Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

| This reminds me of a question I have regarding centering. When casting
| an area effect combat spell and centering vs penalties, which TN is used
| to determine the results of the centering? I can think of several
| possibilities, but I'm not sure which one is correct:
|
| 1) The TN corresponding to the target the spell is centered on,
| 2) The highest TN in the group,
| 3) The lowest TN in the group (yeah, right), or
| 4) The average of the TNs in the group.
|
| Any opinions? Which option is used in your groups?

Hmmm...well Mike I would probably say that the target the spell is centered
on id=s the target number I would use. The peanties will be accross the
board anyway, but the main target of the spell is that one person after
all.

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:15:36 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Sid and Marty Krofft (was Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 09:05 PM 7/10/97 +0100, Spike wrote these timeless words:
>H.R.Puffenstuff (An acid
>|trip if ever there was one, including a magic talking Freddie teh Flute.
>|Draw your own conclusions from that), and a LOT more.
>
>AT LAST! One that I recognise! Seen the film, would LOVE to see the series.
>Alas, it's not been on for 20+ years over here.....
>
Same here.

H. R. Puffenstuff was the first of the Krofft's live action shows, and ran
from 1969-1971. It was in re-runs for a few years after that (I was born
in 74, and I barely remember seeing a couple episodes, so I'd have to guess
it was off re-runs around here by 77, probably in 76.).

So we haven't had it over here for 20+ years either...:]

HRP is probably the best known of the Kroffts shows, with land of teh Lost
trailing behind...:]

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:53:52 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: 2XS/Dirk Montgomery (Was Combat Spells -- Level 6?)
In-Reply-To: <2A30324B41@**.opp.psu.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:10 7/10/97 EST, you wrote:
>> their lifes during every job... And earn big nuyen for it... I
>> _hate_ the Dirk-Montgomery-shadowrunner-image. (no, I don't hate the
>> novels... just the attitude that Montgomery is the typical
>> shadowrunner...)
>
>Heck, in the book, Dirk himself admits that he's just a lurker at the
>edges...he's pretty overwhelmed by Argent and the other "real"
>shadowrunners.

Dirk is probably my favourite SR character to appear in FASA published
stuff. Merely because he's not some shit-hot runner with tons of cybermods
or magical skills. He's somewhere between 'ordinary guy' and
'shadowrunner', and to me, it represents the majority of the shadowrunning
community. The non-elite.

>P.S. 2XS one of my favorite...probably second favorite after
>changling.

Haven't read Changling, but I would say 2XS probably is my favourite.

-Aj

--
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
"Can I have a cup of angst to go with my un-happy meal?" -- Hi & Lois
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 15:12:32 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: SR 3rd Ed. comments and questions
In-Reply-To: <199707101057.MAA14054@**********.xs4all.nl>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:58 7/10/97 +0100, you wrote:

>This autumn there should be a Vampire CD-ROM with stuff like a character
>generator, screen saver with Bradstreet artwork, a "Storyteller assistant"
>that generates cities, encounters, maps, etc., plus some audio tracks.
>(Or so it says in the bit of text I'm reading ATM).

Steering this towards SR.. Character Generator, if done well, would be
nice. Screen Saver, well, blah. Some computer generated maps of the
various cities in 205x would be really nice, especially if you could add
notes and captions to them, and maybe design your own. Audio tracks, well,
if they'res space left, sure.. :)

I haven't even played Quake, I just listen to the music on the CD, only
thing its good for.. :)

>This sort of thing actually sounds more useful to me than a rulebook on
>CD-ROM (well, apart from the screen saver and possibly the music tracks).

Agreed.. I really wouldn't use an online rulebook very often. I have a
pile of binders of stuff I've printed out, because I would much rather read
paper than a screen. A master index would be nice, very nice.

I still don't see this happening, not for a long time.. about two years or
so, since making some SRII compatible now would be a big waste, so they
would need to wait until SRIII is at least finished, if not released and
errata'ed

-Aj

--
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
"Can I have a cup of angst to go with my un-happy meal?" -- Hi & Lois
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:36:27 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Optional Metatypes, part 3: Sasquatch
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 17:24 7/10/97 -0400, Bull wrote:
>Actually, as far as I can tell, Sasquatch CAN understand the spoken
>languange. they just can't speak a language.
>
>That's just always been my impression, at least...;]

My impression is that they are unable to assimilate spoken language; the
idea just doesn't work for them.

--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "So, an Arisian, a Vorlon, and a knnn go into a tavern..." %%
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 15:40:26 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Animals
In-Reply-To: <199707102053.OAA22169@******> from "stephen wolfe" at Jun
21,
97 08:36:08 pm
Content-Type: text

stephen wolfe wrote:
|
| In real life i work with animals.
|
| So my qestion is what happend to the animals
| like horses and cows and things ??

They got replaced by soybeans :)

Seriously though: advanced technology, agriculture, and food
processing have replaced the need for animal products and byproducts,
IMHO. More or less because synthetic is so much cheaper. And with
the shape the economy is in (lots of poor people) cheap sells. It's
also driven by the profit minded megacorps. The cheaper something
can be made, the more profit can be made off of it, and if you work
with animals you know how much money it costs.

That same economy is space restrictive (smaller appartments rented at
a higher price, more profit) and puts a restriction on pets. Only
the privaleged can indulge in pets, let alone horses.

All IMHO :)

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:42:16 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: [OT] Sid and Marty Krofft (was Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

'H.R. Puff-n-Stuf,
Whose your friend when things get rough?
H.R.Puff-n-Stuff
Can only do a little, but he can do enough!'

or, to make it worse...

And now, introducing, that world famous band, after playing an EXTENDED
tour of Bug...er, Chicago, THE BUGALOOS!!!
.
.
.
'The Bugaloos!The Bugaloos!!
We're in the air and everywhere!
Flying high, flying free,
Flying easy as a summer breeze
Happy as a summer breeze <Dadada>

Kohl, feeling REALLY old right about now.
'Where's my mag sight? WHERE's MATLOCK?!?'

>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:50:00 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals

On Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:53:51 -0700 Caric <caric@********.COM> writes:

>:)
>Well I suppose it depends on how much you have to speak/gesture. Is
>it
>just one word or pointing at your target? Would it be a free action
>per
>ritual?

<shrug> I think Max Rible's suggestion is a good way of doing this (IOW,
I hadn't given it much thought before posting:)

--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:45:35 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

| > I think that you and I have had much different experiences with
| > centering then. Centering is probably one of the most powerful
| > metamagical abilities in our game, it is worth FAR more than -1 to
| > your drain target number. Centering skills cost karma yes, but
| > overall the benefits are definately worth it.
|
| Maybe. In My experience, by the time you spend enough Karma to get a
| decent skill, you can get:
| 2 extra successes at target 4 for drain OR success
| or -1 target if your target is 5+.

Well if you are resisting deadly drain and your willpower is only a
four...then they extra dice could be very handy. Plus centering is far
more versatile.

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 22:53:06 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mARCiN sERkIES <yasiu@******.COM>
Subject: Re: messages
In-Reply-To: <199707101749.NAA30341@www.ctghub.com>;
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 13:52 10.07.97 +0000, you wrote:
>That message was perfect, Marcin. Looks like you got it!
>Congrats!

Thanks... but i don`t know what i`ve changed :))

yASIu...
e-maIL [yasiu@******.com]
rEAL nAME???? wHAt iS rEAl nAME???
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 22:52:12 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mARCiN sERkIES <yasiu@******.COM>
Subject: Re: For mARCiN sERkIES [OT] (was Re: SHADOWRUN 3RD EDITION!)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970710123907.007c5360@***.iquest.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:39 10.07.97 -0500, you wrote:
>nope
>you need to use line breaks.

:`( i hate using enter after few chars...
maybe someone who is using eudora pro 3.0 will tell me,
what i have to do???

yASIu...
e-maIL [yasiu@******.com]
rEAL nAME???? wHAt iS rEAl nAME???
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 18:42:28 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: For mARCiN sERkIES [OT] (was Re: SHADOWRUN 3RD EDITION!)

In a message dated 97-07-09 23:02:31 EDT, yasiu@******.COM (mARCiN sERkIES)
writes:

>
> >I just wanted to let you know, your messages are coming through as RTF
>
> >attachments. I have to go into (R)eply just to read them. Don't know
>
> >if anyone else has the same issue.
>
>
> No... i think not... it`s problem only with you... i`ll check config of my

> mailer... maybe something is set wrong here....
>
>
I haven't had the problems with the letter you sent me directly
Yasiu...someone else had something similar though, I don't remember whom
though...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 18:51:47 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals

In a message dated 97-07-10 01:02:52 EDT, caric@********.COM (Caric) writes:

>
> The problem I find with that is that shielding and masking are both
magical
> activities that cannot be done when an exclusive spell is being done, and
> they are metamagic just like centering...
>
>
> -Caric

Actually, that's only partially correct. Shielding is an exclusive action,
while Masking is an automatic one. -ACTIVE- use of Masking, such as to mask
another object or being is an exclusive action. Centering precedes the
actual casting of a given spell or calling of a particular entity, thus it
can be used in conjunction with exclusive magic.
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 18:55:58 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Changing the System (Was [SR3] Magical Magic)

In a message dated 97-07-10 02:16:24 EDT, Ronin55444@***.COM (David J. Browne
Jr) writes:

>
> Variable stageing was one of the first things I read which i really
> liked....Never had a problem with it.... but then again there might be a
> reason I had to explain the concept to many of my players :)
>
>
I had a discussion on the Variable Staging topic with a couple of the people
from my game group the other night and we came up with an idea. How about
Variable Staging in the Design tables...

For example... (addendum to my earlier posting on Design Mods)

Damage Staging 1 .... +1 Drain Category
Drain Staging 1 .... +1 Drain Category

Drain Staging 2 .... No Modifier
Damage Staging 2 .... No Modifier

Drain Staging 3 .... -1 Drain Category
Damage Staging 3 .... -1 Drain Category

By this I mean that it would take 3 successes to stage things for Drain
Staging 3, etc...sorry to cut this short, gotta walk the dog really quick...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 19:04:41 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals

In a message dated 97-07-10 02:18:10 EDT, westln@***.EDU (Lorden) writes:

>
> One of the things I did to reduce the power of magic in my game
> was to change fetishes so they added dice not Force to a spell.
> This had the effect of lowering the target number the target had
> to resist, but gave the mages more dice to role. Ingeneral most
> people still fail to stay awake from a force 6 stun ball, but
> there are a few that have to be dealt with afterwords.
>
> -
Actually Lorden, this topic was a massive argument on rec.games.frp.cyber
about 1-2 months ago concerning the wording of the rule concerning "Net
Force" for fetishes and the like. I have always interpreted it in such a way
that a fetish didn't actually change the force of a given spell, unless it
was designed that way specifically. Other people have taken it for the
direct wording in the text (BBB), which makes fetishes and the like really
overbalancing IMO.
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 19:06:12 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: SR/ED ties (spoilers removed for the unknowing)

In a message dated 97-07-10 02:24:50 EDT, u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK (Spike)
writes:

> |(Important note: This -------^^^ is not an attempt at a Horror smiley! :)
>
> Errrrm.....
>
> Wouldn't a horror smilie look more like :::) ?
>
>
NAH, that's a Marduk Smiling (the multiple eyes thing)....Horror smiley would
be more like ~}
-K (who really doesn't know in this case)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 19:11:38 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,
or Bring out your Spells,Bring out your spell

In a message dated 97-07-10 02:48:57 EDT, NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU
(Bruce H. Nagel) writes:

> Okay, I can see this as a popular and funny little spell, but it also has
> certain... moral implications. Seriously, how would you like it if some
guy
> came along and made you spontaneously orgasm?
>
> losthalo
>
>
I've got one that has been developed here to make things even more
complicated. Health Spell actually...

Guaranteed Conception
Drain : (F/2)M (even with a complicated modifier added)
Range : Touch (this is touch if nothing isn't)
Type : Physical (actually, it can Mana as well, similar to Heal/Treat)

It was used in the games to acquire possibly the most unique arcana I have
ever had at any time. The Newborn Embryo.

Those were moral implications that still rock the games here to this day
(after 3 months).
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 19:12:20 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Babylon 5 Drift (OT, possible B5 spoilers)

In a message dated 97-07-10 02:51:21 EDT, collinsst@*****.UML.EDU (Steve
Collins) writes:

>
> we have seen through 18 all but the last 4 now though we have to wait til
> mid october for more:(
>
>
I guess what I was asking since I don't really keep track of numbers is some
events of #18...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 19:15:38 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: cyberware and it's effects on the psyche and body

In a message dated 97-07-10 03:14:05 EDT, slothman@*********.ORG (Max Rible)
writes:

> >so what's the best way role play a sammie with .6 essence?
> >
> >what sorts of effects on him can realistically be expected?
> >
> >What long-term effects does this have on a body and psyche?
>
> You may be interested in a page I have on this topic at
> http://www.amurgsval.org/shadowrun/humanity.html ; there's an
> interesting system at http://www.albany.net/~geenius/sanity.html as well.
>
> --
> %% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %%
Really Max...I think -I- would like to as well...(pondering) Humanity eh? As
in a seperate attribute perhaps? Sounds familiar...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 19:17:34 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals

In a message dated 97-07-10 03:31:37 EDT, westln@***.EDU (Lorden) writes:

>
> Actually I'm leaning towards a couple of free actions
> directly before casting the spell. This gives some warning
> to others and makes the mage decide ahead of time what they
> are going to do. All reasonable penalties for the benefits
> of the ritual.
>
Now this brings up an idea...as Centering (as an example) is a Free Action,
and since so many people use languages...Centering may qualify for more than
a single Free Action, remembering that it's one word per free action
(ignoring run-ons here)...could some of the rituals and/or metamagics require
more than one Free Action to enact?
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 16:17:25 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: cyberware and it's effects on the psyche and body [LONG]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

> Jaymz wrote:
> >
> > OK,
> >
> > so what's the best way role play a sammie with .6 essence?
> >
> > what sorts of effects on him can realistically be expected?
> >
> > What long-term effects does this have on a body and psyche?

Here's something from a document on my web page that may help:

~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!

Cyberpsychosis: A Synopsis of the Disorder

Sumaro Takahara, M.D. Fuchi Industrial Systems, Inc.

Constantin Sergey'ich Tomorov, M.D. Moscow State University, CIS

R. Alexander Carrington, Ph.D. Cornell University, UCAS
------------------------------------------------------------------------
INTRODUCTION:

One of the most onerous of public myths is the frequency of
"cyberpsychosis" and its impact on modern society. An explosion of
research has been undertaken in the last five years, both with
corporate and federal funding, in order to quantify, examine, and
treat this illness. This article is submitted in order to summarize
the most recent findings and to provide the mental health practitioner
a set of treatment options from which to choose.

SYMPTOMATOLOGY:

According to the DSM-IX-R, cyberpsychosis "is an undefined
schizoid-like disorder caused by either invasive surgery, the
implantation of cyberware, or a combination of these two events".
Cyberpsychosis, like all psychoses, manifests as the following
symptoms: sensory hallucinations, delusional thinking (especially
delusion of persecution and other paranoia complexes), tangential
thought patterns, and/or disrupted physiological patterns, such as
eating and sleeping.

Diagnosis of cyberpsychosis is a difficult task, and most likely
happens more frequently than the incidence of the disorder actually
merits. The psychotic behavior is usually noticed quickly by the
clinician, and after learning the patient has had cyberware implanted,
he or she makes what appears to be the appropriate diagnosis. However,
this does not discount the possibility of drug- or chip-addicted
schizoid behavior, or the possibility that the behavior might have a
pre-surgical cause (such as a traumatic event or a genetic
predisposition to psychotic illness).

Also seen frequently are violent outbursts, possibly due to
neurological degradation caused by the cyberware. This is the most
common reason these patients come to be in the care of professionals
in the first place.

Clinicians are, therefore, urged to obtain a detailed background of
their patients, run a full series of blood and neurological tests, and
rule out other psychoses before giving the cyberpsychosis diagnosis.
Also suggested are a standard set of projective psychological tests to
determine the level of dysfunction in the patient.

POSSIBLE CAUSES:

Although we know that cyberpsychosis is a version of schizophrenia
caused by the implantation of cyberware, we are far from knowing the
actual mechanisms involved in creating the mental disorder. Several
theories have been put forth, each with their merits. A brief
discussion on some of these theories is necessary before we can look
at the treatment options.

Infection:

It has been postulated that cyberpsychosis is actually the behavioral
manifestation of a physiological infection. Much research has been
done on this point, with emphasis being placed on bacterial infection
of subcortical and limbic structures in the central nervous system.
However, this theory has three important limitations: first, it does
not account for cyberpsychosis caused solely by "bodyware" (e.g.,
muscle augmentation, dermal armor, and such), which is generally
implanted with only minimal connections to the central nervous system,
if any; second, similar effects are not noticed with the implantation
of bioware; and third, treatment regimens of antibiotics have been
largely ineffective.

Metal Poisoning:

Similar to theories regarding Alzheimer's Disease, some researchers
believe that cyberpsychosis is caused by metal ions in the central
nervous system disrupting activity in the cerebral cortex. Though this
explanation is attractive in that it offers a potential easy cure for
the afflicted, it must be discounted. The metals used in cyberware are
inert, and do not form biological hazards when exposed to the
environment inside a cranium.

An interesting, though little examined, point along these lines should
be considered: although the physical properties of the cyberware might
be safe, what of the nanites used in cyberware construction? These
machines are supposed to be flushed from the body with other wastes,
but what if they aren't? Little research has been done with this
concept in mind.

Neurotransmitter Imbalance:

Currently the most popular explanation of cyberpsychosis, this
explanation has a good deal of evidence to support it. Blood levels of
those suffering from cyberpsychosis indicate much higher levels of the
neurotransmitter dopamine than in other people. This same phenomenon
also can indicate schizophrenia, though. Cyberpsychotics also have a
much greater incidence of abnormal EEG wave patterns, especially alpha
and theta complexes.

Cyberware implanted in the frontal and parietal lobes, and any of
their associated subcortical structures, can be implicated in damage
to dopaminergic neurons. Histologic and immunoassay studies have
demonstrated that these nerve pathways are disrupted by the presence
of cyberware in both central and peripheral nervous systems.
Complicating the matter is the brain's inability to reverse the
changes wrought by cyberware implantation, even after that cyberware
is removed.

TREATMENT OPTIONS:

The most frequest method for treating cyberpsychosis is removal of the
cyberware in conjunction with the administration of antipsychotic
medication (haloperidol or chlorpromazine). The removal of the
cyberware is usually academic as far as the mental illness is
concerned; the damage has already been done. More appropriately, the
cyberware is removed to prevent the patient from injuring the staff
during treatment. It can be assumed that most orderlies and nurses
would object to having to restrain a man with two cyberarms,
especially if one held a weapon.

After the cyberware is removed, the disorder appears more like
schizophrenia than anything else. The antipsychotic medication trial
can help restore the patient to a functional level, but a return to
pre-morbid functioning is impossible.

Another frequent treatment method is psychological therapy, though
treatment results are generally poor. Psychotherapy indicates an
ability to examine ones motives in an introspective manner, something
that psychotic patients have rarely, if ever, been capable of doing.

CONCLUSION:

Cyberpsychosis can best be understood as an artifically induced form
of schizophrenia. It appears to be caused by implantation of
cyberware, though the exact physiological mechanism as yet remains
undetermined. Research points towards a disruption in the nerve
pathways that use dopamine as the neurotransmitter. Treatment methods
are more to alleviate psychotic symptoms rather than cure the
disorder. Prognosis for a patient with this diagnosis is poor.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sumaro Takahara is a neurosurgeon in the employ of Fuchi Industrial
Systems, Inc. His specialty is in cyberware implantation and function,
and he has pioneered many of the more innovative techniques in the
field.

Constantin Tomorov is a psychiatrist currently teaching at Moscow
State University. His research background includes psychotic behavior
in cybernetically-enhanced chimpanzees, as well as treatment of
chip-addicted patients.

Alexander Carrington is a neuropsychologist and chairman of the
psychology department of Cornell University. His research focuses on
the cognitive function of cybernetically-enhanced people, and how that
function changes over time.

===
@>--,--'--- Loki

Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/

"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 19:22:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Babylon 5 Drift (OT, possible B5 spoilers)
Comments: To: shergold@***********.net

In a message dated 97-07-10 09:10:31 EDT, shergold@***********.net (Shergold)
writes:

>
>
>
> I saw up to and including the episode where that telepath gave Garibaldi
> his memories back, after giving Sheridan to Clark's people.
>
> SilverFire
>
Yeah, that I saw too...oops, forgot the advanced spoiler blocker...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 19:24:56 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Game Wreckers (was: Magical drain)

In a message dated 97-07-10 09:46:54 EDT, Ronin55444@***.COM (David J. Browne
Jr) writes:

>
>
> This is why I GM on the fly.... They try to wreck the game and I wreck
> their
> fun.... then I tell problem player to leave..... After all I am G.O.D.
> (Game Overall Director)
>
> If player still wants to be difficult I tell him not to speak to me till
he
> grows up and figures out what the hell he did to piss me off.
>
>
> Dave
>
>
I do the same thing, but after a few years, you aquire a reputation...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 19:28:28 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Mysticism

In a message dated 97-07-10 10:36:00 EDT, agh60070@*******.CC.UCF.EDU (Jerry
Hill) writes:

> > are spirits? what is on the meta planes? Give magic users some
>
> Well, much as many people here don't seem to like the WW system, if
> you can browse through a copy of thier Umbra book (the Umbra being
> the spiritual world of the Garou) there are some very nice metaplanes
> in there. Now, I haven't re-read that book in quite some time, so
> I'm not too sure of how (or if) they would fit into the SR universe
> of astral and metaplanes neatly, but it seems like a great starting
> place.
>
>
Well actually, I can think of other directions for varieties of
Metaplanes...how about the Land of the Dead for a Metaplane of Man? We've
done it and brought in the entire Egyptian mythoi as Icons.

Also, how about a few more developments on the Metaplanar assistance
level...our argument here is that "the Universe is Infinite in it's
diversity, should it not also therefore be Infinite in it's Expression?"
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 19:44:17 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Staging
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 10 Jul 1997 07:34:06 -0600"
<199707101334.HAA10271@******>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

You wrote:
> And again, the Power and the Damage Level combine to accurately
> affect the ease with which a character can resist damage from an
> Attack/Drain/Whatever.
And my way of doing things does something similar, it's just a different
approach. I've run into this same thing looking at modifying the Mage system,
deciding whether more successes required or higher difficulty numbers should be
the way to make something more difficult. A little of each gives greater
flexibility, imo.

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 18:50:51 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Black Death <ddmaster@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Optional Metatypes, part 3: Sasquatch
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I agree with Bull. I have always thought due to their vocal cords' make
up that they were not able to speak any complicated languages.

Take a look at dogs they can be taught single syllable words and their
meaning. Yet they cannot speak our language.

Am I to assume that now I'm wrong on this??

--
Heaven or Hell it does not matter for I am the soul taker and you are
next on my list.
Black Death
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 19:47:29 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Staging
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 10 Jul 1997 07:37:51 -0600"
<199707101337.HAA10678@******>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

You wrote:
> Depending on circumstances it can be easier to cause damage than to resist
> it (a PAC being fired at a homless person). The opposite is also true (a
> homless person (weak and without skills) going berserk and attacking a
> special forces troll in full security armor.

These examples don't really illustrate what I was thinking about, so I'll try
to be more clear. It may be easy for me to aim a shot at someone with a
firearm, but not easy to dodge it. Thus, it might require more successes to
dodge the attack than to improve the shot and increase the damage level. But
as you've been saying, that could be done through higher T#'s rather than a
higher damage staging # (SR2 vs. SR1, basically). In some cases, I see it as
being so great a difference in difficulty that a lower staging for attack would
make sense to me, as well as perhaps an easier target number (since skills
limit the number of dice you can throw at a test).

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 16:02:00 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Optional Metatypes, part 3: Sasquatch
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 18:50 7/10/97 -0500, Black Death wrote:
>I agree with Bull. I have always thought due to their vocal cords' make
>up that they were not able to speak any complicated languages.

Actually, the Sasquatch Entertainer Contact in Sprawl Sites gives
a prerecorded speech, IIRC. I figure that Sasquatches can speak
just fine, but they just know that "Hoi, more beer here, chummer" is
a sound that makes the bartender pour you a drink, and it might as well
be some kind of complicated whistle-code. (If they can do "divebombing
starfighter with overloaded fusion pack", they should be able to do
human speech.)

>Take a look at dogs they can be taught single syllable words and their
>meaning. Yet they cannot speak our language.

>Am I to assume that now I'm wrong on this??

About dogs? No. About Sasquatches? Depends on your campaign.

--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "So, an Arisian, a Vorlon, and a knnn go into a tavern..." %%
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 19:53:58 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells -- Level 6?
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:10:48 -0500 (EST)"
<2A30324B41@**.opp.psu.edu>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

You wrote:
> Heck, in the book, Dirk himself admits that he's just a lurker at the
> edges...he's pretty overwhelmed by Argent and the other "real"
> shadowrunners.
Well, actually, he's more of just a private detective than anything.

> 1) They couldn't play it.
> 2) They didn't have anything to improve.
This allepends on how your characters want to improve, and what sort of
characters they want to play at the start. My players usually want fairly
experienced characters, not newbies, and can usually play them. Usually they
are either more intent on staying alive and keeping things going or expanding
their abilities outward (not upward). This is true of sammies, mages, and
non-traditional types.

> So I revamped it. Usually (varies with specific character, natch)
> they end up seeking something (fame, money, etc) and trying to get by
> becoming better runners.
Mine tend to play out the stories of their lives (meeting old enemies again,
making new friends, enemies, etc., and occasionally screwing up bigtime and
getting into hot water). Their increases are incidental, usually by
opportunity, as they spend much of their time making a living and hiding from
the 'list' of problems and enemies.

Balance this with some social situations,
> and you get some very good running. The characters can build
> themselves to be the best, but don't start there. If they start
> there, they have nowhere to go but down.
Only in stats, though. What happens when those characters change their
motivations (decide to go on a crusade to help X individuals or just decide to
learn magic theory for the frag of it)? Those powerful char's can still grow
in other ways through play that are very fun and rewarding.

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:14:34 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: (SR3)Variable staging
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:49:36 -0400"

<c=US%a=_%p=Reichhold%l=RCIRTPMSX-970710164936Z-13343@*********.reichhold.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

You wrote:
> It was originally just an idea, but, I intend to implement a system
> where staging for Light and Mod wounds require 3 successes. I will be
> middle of August because my group has disbanded until then. My
> reasoning for this comes from some contact swordfighting I have done.
> When I began, I would recieve a mortal wound easily. As I advanced, my
> wounds would be lessened, but, I would always get some kind of wound no
> matter how slight. The very skilled would recieve no wounds of a few
> slight ones before completely walking over me. The system will ensure
> that almost every conflict will result in some wound, unless the
> character is particularly skilled or lucky(i.e. rolls well) Higher
> skills lessen the number of such small wounds attained. This will also
> make any weapon in the hands of Joe Squatter a threat. I feel that is
> closer to reality.
This might apply to fencing, or maybe even melee in general, but I don't think
it has too much of a place in other areas.

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:16:11 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,or Bring out your Spells,Bring
out your spells!!!]
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:16:22 -0700"
<199707101650.LAA28482@********.mcit.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

You wrote:
> Well certainly it isn't something that you just cast willy nilly as it does
> do stun damage albeit light, but as a shadowrunner I really wasn't overly
> concerned about whether it was legal or not...only cast on an unwilling
> target twice I think (and one of those was a teammember for there own
> good).
And I wasn't really talking about legality. I'd find it incredibly rude,
almost on the level of rape. Just because it's magically created doesn't mean
you're not responsible for your actions...

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:12:15 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,or Bring out your
Spells,Bringout your spells!!!]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

| You wrote:
| > Well certainly it isn't something that you just cast willy nilly as it
does
| > do stun damage albeit light, but as a shadowrunner I really wasn't
overly
| > concerned about whether it was legal or not...only cast on an unwilling
| > target twice I think (and one of those was a teammember for there own
| > good).
| And I wasn't really talking about legality. I'd find it incredibly rude,
| almost on the level of rape. Just because it's magically created doesn't
mean
| you're not responsible for your actions...

Oh no I understood that...of course it is rude...I wouldn't put it anywhere
near the act of rape as it is completely non-violent, but of all the spells
you could cast on someone it's hardly the worst. Would you rather have an
orgams and get tired or burn to death as your head explodes?

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:27:10 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: cyberware and it's effects on the psyche and body
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 10 Jul 1997 22:41:08 +0000"
<199707102004.WAA22616@******.scc.uni-weimar.de>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

You wrote:
> Gurth spoke wisely
> > None that we know of. Cyberpsychosis doesn't exist in SR *chants to self
> > "Don't start that thread! Don't start that thread!"*

> Do you think this will help????
> Okay guys, who wants Cyberpsychosis in SR ;)
No flames here. I think some description of the mental effects of cyberware
(originally Essence loss was attributes to the impact on the nervous system by
implanted systems) would be good in SR3, if only for clarity. Personally I
figure moderate to gigh amounts of cyber should have some personality effects
(cf. the monologue about cyber in Cybertechnology).

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 19:07:36 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> I think someone's age is showing, and it is probably me becvause I know
> what they were, right along with Wonderbuggy,and Electrowoman and Dynagirl.

You forgot Arc 2, Isis, and Shazam..As for Sleestaks [or however you are supposed to
spell it] they are sort of sentient humanoid dinos..Oh an they
brought back Land of the Lost a few years ago..but naturally it
died..
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 22:06:07 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: MP laser & mirrors
In-Reply-To: <01IL30L1WYTC9I4ZEZ@******.acs.muohio.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Has anyone ever tried to deal with the MP laser and mirrors?

Eg. a mirrored shield of some sort?
Also using a mirror to assist aiming and aiming around corners, etc?

--
/-justin@****.mcp.com----------------------jbell@****.mcp.com--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 23:34:38 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Dwarven Opera Singer (Was - Re: SLARP v1.2)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> From: Steven A. Tinner <bluewizard@*****.COM>
> Date: Tuesday, June 03, 1997 1:29 PM

> DWARVEN OPERA SINGER - CONTACT

<Snip>

Well, I wanted to let you know that one of my PCs wanted a Debutant type
contact, so I am going to use the Dwarven Opera Singer contact. ;) I have
been plucking away at my NPCs and contacts...woohoo! Still got tons to go,
but I am gonna get at least the Contacts and a few NPCs done before the
game. I will save the Friend of a Friends for in game stuff (I will
generate professions before the game, but fill in the rest as they come
up).

Any good ideas for that entymologist? My player is bugging me for his
contacts, and I have them all done, except for that one. Don't worry about
time. I'm in no rush...just want a nice juicy contact for him. :) I love
your ideas! :) They're so evil! ;)

Thanks again for all your help. Your ideas are priceless to a new GM like
me. :)

Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:41:54 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Karma and Attributes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

---Brett Borger wrote:
>
> I would disagree with this. 6 represents the Maximum Average, ( if
> that makes sense). 1.5 times racial max is the buffest ever....max
> is a REASONABLE buffest. anything above Racial Max is bloody rare,
> and Racial Max is rare, but NOT buffest.

BBB, page 190: "Attribute Ratings cannot normally exceed the
character's racial maximum. However, if the gamemster agrees, paying
double the Good Karma Points above the racial maximum. <snip example>
The gamemaster should probably discourage players from raising a
character's Attributes to beyond 1.5x the racial maximum."

This is an OPTIONAL rule. Six is the racial maximum for a
human...toughest, smartest, strongest or what-have-you. Some games may
allow a player to exceed it, others may not. So you can't really use
use 9 as the "buffest ever" top of the spectrum. Even in games
allowing you to exceed racial max's, those who do are a rarity above
and beyond the "biggest" or "smartest" for that race.

===
@>--,--'--- Loki

Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/

"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 23:42:12 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks

On Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:19:42 -0500 "Faux Pas (Thomas)"
<thomas@*******.COM> writes:
[What's a sleestack? snipped]
>Creature from "Land of the Lost", Saturday morning live-action
>children's
>show aired in the United States in mid to late 70s.

Aaaahh...thought it might be (that was the only thing I could possibly
think of:) I remember a bit of that, I think they ran that show around
here into the early, *maybe* the mid 80's. As I recall, the special
effects were pretty cheesy looking, even when I was 3 or 4:) which is not
to say it didn't give me the willies then:):)

--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 23:59:29 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: [SR3] Focusing Efforts
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

I'm going to draw everyone in on consolidating some of the less
controversial revisions and additions to SR3.What I'm looking for is any
rule that appeared in one of the sourcebooks that corrected or clarified
an existing rule in the BBB. If it was a rule that added immensely to the
system then I would think it would make a useful addition as well. Any
rule that left a question that was never answered anywhere should be
brought up as well.
I also would like to state that I doubt we'll see any wide sweeping
changes over the rules in SR3. Matrix and Rigging rules have to be
changed to be brought up to date with VR 2.0 and Rigger's Black Book 2.
The main game book should be expanded upon in supplements not rewritten
by them. While bringing back variable Staging would add more to the game,
almost every book printed for Shadowrun would have to be changed. I doubt
we will see this happen. While we could introduce variable staging in the
rules, we couldn't make it affect existing material. For example, 3rd
edition rules could introduce new ammo that stages down at 3 instead of
2, and that doesn't effect any current game statistic. Optional staging
for dodge tests versus guns to reflect the limited reflex time could be
another use. The potential of using it is there as long as it is
introducible. If it comes down to changing the drain, then the new rules
should be able to slide into the existing Grimoire 2 and Awakenings. This
is what we should be long at.
Yet again, please contribute by mentioning all the little tidbits
that have crept into the Shadowrun system and changed it since the 2nd
edition first came out. I know I'm asking for a flood of mail on this but
it will cut down my search and you will know that any little rule you
felt should be widely known will be there.

Thanks to everyone on the list.

- MC23, who is afraid of what he has volunteered for -
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 00:01:56 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Vaughn Wright <VWright765@***.COM>
Subject: Re: books again

I'd go ahead and get them. Rather than the Cybertechnology book you may want
to get the SR companion first. It to me is more of a core book than
Cybertechnology but the Germany sourcebook is excellant. Defineletly get it
before it goes ot of print.

Vaughn
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 00:04:40 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals

In a message dated 97-07-10 22:36:53 EDT, NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU
(Bruce H. Nagel) writes:

> Allowable, yes. Stackable, no. Letting Centering types stack is munchym
> sorry. Also, most actions that can benefit from Centering are Complex
> Actions
> anyway... They're using their one Free Action of the phase to Center, and
> their
> Complex Actions to cast, summon, whatevah.
>
> losthalo

I'm Sorry halo, got me confused...I meant that they use one centering skill
for the first test and a second, different, skill for the second test...I'm a
master at knowing what is stackable and what isn't...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 00:03:00 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Optional Metatypes, part 3: Sasquatch

On Thu, 10 Jul 1997 18:50:51 -0500 Black Death <ddmaster@**.NET> writes:
>I agree with Bull. I have always thought due to their vocal cords'
>make
>up that they were not able to speak any complicated languages.
>
>Take a look at dogs they can be taught single syllable words and their
>meaning. Yet they cannot speak our language.
>
>Am I to assume that now I'm wrong on this??

Well, it's just not that simple. IIRC (let me check my book:) the
description on the Sasquatch Entertainer Contact indicates an
unbelievable ability to mimic sounds. Why should this not, then, include
human speech patterns? The only reason I can think of that they might not
learn language (as we know it) is that they do not want to. They are
sophisticated enough to handle language through the means of gestures,
sign language, why not through speech? I'm quite sure that they must use
some form of vocal communication in the wild, so to speak, as very few
creatures do not. Therefore, why do they not attempt to learn human
speech? What if they simply don't want to (GM's, get to work:)?

--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 00:09:32 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,

In a message dated 97-07-10 21:10:23 EDT, dbuehrer@****.ORG (David Buehrer)
writes:

> |
> | Okay, I can see this as a popular and funny little spell, but it also
has
> | certain... moral implications. Seriously, how would you like it if some

> guy
> | came along and made you spontaneously orgasm?
>
> I'd give him 5 bucks, or do you think 10 would be more appropriate? :)
>
>
Don't forget the napkin or handkerchef...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 21:08:15 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Karma and Attributes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

---MC23 wrote:
>
> Then maybe the rate you give out Karma should be reviewed. My
group
> only gives out 2-3 Karma points a session as a general rule. Karma
become
> too valuable to spend on multiple increases that way.

Ok, maybe "shortly" was a bad choice of a word. I don't mean they all
hit racial max in three or four gaming sessions. But they tend to
eventually. As for Karma awards. I'd say I average 1-3 per player each
session. One or two players have even said I'm too light on awards,
but it averages out in the end.

> >Basically, racial max's and karma cost for raising attributes stand
as
> >listed in the BBB. However, each character has his own personal cap
on
> >how far he can raise each attribute equal to 1.5x it's starting
value
> >(rounded up). Mind you the 1.5x limit is after factoring in racial
> >modifiers at character creation.
>
> And if you start with a stat of 1?

You cap out at 2. Individual limits are 1.5x starting attribute
(rounded up).
1 --> 2
2 --> 3
3 --> 5
4 --> 6
5 --> 8
6 --> 9
And so on...

Karma costs and racial max's are per BBB. Those who are able may
exceed to 1.5x racial max at double karma cost over racial max.

Makes cyber/bioware or increase att spells a little more important,
don't it? :o)

===
@>--,--'--- Loki

Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/

"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 00:16:12 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: 2XS/Dirk Montgomery (Was Combat Spells -- Level 6?)
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:53:52 -0600"
<3.0.2.32.19970710145352.006fdf00@****.lis.ab.ca>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

You wrote:
> Haven't read Changling, but I would say 2XS probably is my favourite.
Well, given that I stopped reading SR novels around Changeling (which was
decent) I have to say 2XS is the only SR novel I've read that would have stood
on its own as a novel without the SR gamers to buy it. It was written well,
and didn't suffer so much from the formula plots that the others do.

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 00:18:52 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: 2XS/Dirk Montgomery (Was Combat Spells -- Level 6?)
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

>Dirk is probably my favourite SR character to appear in FASA published
>stuff. Merely because he's not some shit-hot runner with tons of cybermods
>or magical skills. He's somewhere between 'ordinary guy' and
>'shadowrunner', and to me, it represents the majority of the shadowrunning
>community. The non-elite.

Dirk is definately amusing. At least when he get's hit with a dumpster his
reply is to fall to the ground and say Duh! That kind of vulneralility
impresses me unlike characters like Striper or the group from Black Madonna,
Gerriant and his buddies.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

YES and my followers will be legion! The world will be mine
"SO SWEARS THE LEADER!"
All will bow before my might and bask in my radience. Kneel before you lord
and master. Kiss the ruby ring of power and cower before me.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 00:20:34 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Changing the System (Was [SR3] Magical Magic)
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 10 Jul 1997 18:55:58 -0400"
<970710185557_1927245442@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

You wrote:
> I had a discussion on the Variable Staging topic with a couple of the people
> from my game group the other night and we came up with an idea. How about
> Variable Staging in the Design tables...

> For example... (addendum to my earlier posting on Design Mods)

> Damage Staging 1 .... +1 Drain Category
> Drain Staging 1 .... +1 Drain Category

> Drain Staging 2 .... No Modifier
> Damage Staging 2 .... No Modifier

> Drain Staging 3 .... -1 Drain Category
> Damage Staging 3 .... -1 Drain Category

> By this I mean that it would take 3 successes to stage things for Drain
> Staging 3, etc...sorry to cut this short, gotta walk the dog really quick...
Well, I think I would still go with Staging 2 for all spells for raising the
damage, but would maybe go for variable staging in the damage resistance
(otherwise the staging cuts both ways and changes very little).

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 00:19:16 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Magical Magic

On Wed, 9 Jul 1997 23:22:18 -0500 "Bruce H. Nagel" writes:

>.... I would really recommend that Body
>dice to reduce damage be eliminated (they're called Soak Rolls in
Storyteller
>and Ars Magica, and I think they're just a way to let characters survive
things
>that ordinary humans cannot survive). But that's just me, and I know I
won't
>see that in SR, so I'll stop blathering now.

Well, if you remove the "soak" roll, then all that talk of variable
versus fixed staging becomes somewhat of a moot point doesn't it? What
would you do instead? Do you mean remove the resistance roll completely,
or do you mean use something else?

If you mean to remove the roll completely... I'd have to whole-heartedly
DISagree. If you do that, you completely remove any sense of uncertainty
from the game.... and combat becomes unrealistically predictable.

Not to mention you remove any sort of "beyond the ordinary"-ness that is
half the fun.
~Tim

>> "If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear
him,
>> is he still wrong?"

(depends on who you ask.)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 00:19:16 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals)

On Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:32:31 -0700 mike.paff@*****.COM writes:

>This reminds me of a question I have regarding centering. When casting
>an area effect combat spell and centering vs penalties, which TN is used
>to determine the results of the centering? I can think of several
>possibilities, but I'm not sure which one is correct:
>
> 1) The TN corresponding to the target the spell is centered on,
> 2) The highest TN in the group,
> 3) The lowest TN in the group (yeah, right), or
> 4) The average of the TNs in the group.
>
>Any opinions? Which option is used in your groups?

Why not on a case by case basis.... roll your centering dice (and don't
move them), figure out all the T#'s for the area spell and adjust
accordingly based on the successes for each T#.

That is, if you roll like 5 dice for centering (and you get 8,6,4,3,2)
and your targets have (lets just pick a mana spell) willpowers (plus
modifiers for visibiliyt or something) of 5,2, 3... then you have 2
successes against the T# 5, 5 successes against the t# 2, and 3 against
the T# 3. Adjust the T#'s accordingly then roll your spell success test.

~Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 00:23:49 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dwarven Opera Singer (Was - Re: SLARP v1.2)
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

At 11:34 PM 7/10/97 -0400, you wrote:
>> From: Steven A. Tinner <bluewizard@*****.COM>
>> Date: Tuesday, June 03, 1997 1:29 PM
>
>> DWARVEN OPERA SINGER - CONTACT
>

So Tinner is this contact going to make the next Nerps compliation?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

YES and my followers will be legion! The world will be mine
"SO SWEARS THE LEADER!"
All will bow before my might and bask in my radience. Kneel before you lord
and master. Kiss the ruby ring of power and cower before me.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 00:28:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Karma and Attributes
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Loki once dared to write,

>---MC23 wrote:
>> And if you start with a stat of 1?
>
>You cap out at 2. Individual limits are 1.5x starting attribute
>(rounded up).

I could handle a +3 cap better than your way. My character Waif
(burnt out sorcerer adept) could have never existed in your game. At the
start of the campaign, Waif was already a former runner who spent the
last couple years wasting away on BTLs. He was a Strength 1 with other
lower stats who just came clean off the chips and was rebuilding himself
up to his former pre-addict self.
People do recover from such conditions. Under your system, they can
only recover a little. Your system impedes development too unfairly.

>Makes cyber/bioware or increase att spells a little more important,
>don't it? :o)
too important.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 00:29:17 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,
or Bring out your Spells,Bring out your spell
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 10 Jul 1997 19:11:38 -0400"
<970710191137_1623025933@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

You wrote:
> Guaranteed Conception
> Drain : (F/2)M (even with a complicated modifier added)
> Range : Touch (this is touch if nothing isn't)
> Type : Physical (actually, it can Mana as well, similar to Heal/Treat)

> It was used in the games to acquire possibly the most unique arcana I have
> ever had at any time. The Newborn Embryo.
Ick. I don't think we need to go here. This sort of idea crops up in games
like Kult, where it does belong, but not here. Unless you are *really* not
playing something resembling the ShadowRun I know and love. Gritty, yeah,
gratuitously grisly and unpleasant, no.

> Those were moral implications that still rock the games here to this day
> (after 3 months).

Developing a fetus for the purposes of using it as magical materials?
Can you say... blood magic? You're really walking the fine line on this one,
lots of mages would take an interest in booting someone who put such a spell to
such uses. I can see you being hunted over this sort of thing, if for no other
reason than mucking up the limited good reputation magicians have.

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 00:38:18 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: SR/ED ties (slight rant)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Raven once dared to write after others,

>Our THREE main weapons are Shadowrun, the comfy chair, the soft
>cushions aaand...

OK, OK, amongst our weaponry are Shadowrun, the comfy chair, the
soft cushions, a 1,000 year old carp and a guru on a dyke.

1,2,3,4,5, 5 OK

Our 5 weapons..., oh you handle it.

- MC23, who is not a number -
"OK, I'm two letters and a number."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 00:39:16 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,or Bring out your
Spells,Bringout your spells!!!]
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:12:15 -0700"
<199707110023.UAA20058@********.mcit.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

You wrote:
> Oh no I understood that...of course it is rude...I wouldn't put it anywhere
> near the act of rape as it is completely non-violent,
Define violence as you will, but I generally define it as someone doing what
they want to with my body without my permission. This counts... It's not
putting someone to sleep to avoid killing them, it's an invasion of privacy and
humiliating.

but of all the spells
> you could cast on someone it's hardly the worst. Would you rather have an
> orgasm and get tired or burn to death as your head explodes?

That really isn't the point. 'Would you rather be raped or murdered?' isn't a
fair choice, neither is something you should do to someone, eh? Some people
view sex pretty seriously, and this would be an extreme violation, doing it to
someone against their will (as opposed to voluntarily, which is an original and
interesting idea :) is the equivalent of taking control of their most personal
thoughts and desires. Not nice.

To those who think I'm taking this too seriously, well, *shrug*

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 00:48:50 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Focusing Efforts
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 10 Jul 1997 23:59:29 -0400"
<199707110400.AAA22502@*********.mindspring.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

You wrote:
> If it comes down to changing the drain, then the new rules
> should be able to slide into the existing Grimoire 2 and Awakenings. This
> is what we should be long at.
Honestly, if it is going to be this, you could do one small book detailing
the 2nd to 3rd changes and clarifications rather than another Big Book (I'm
still plugging for EMerald Green for the color :). If all the changes are
going to be is details that will be compatible with Grim2, VR2.0 '(which I
admit is nice), and Cybertechnology, you're not changing a helluva lot. Some
details, yes, but you're just fine tuning, not putting out a new edition of the
game. This is what AD&D did with its 2nd Edition and it was a disappointment.
$30 for a hardbound that contains some changes but mostly the same rules as
2nd, the older players may buy it out of loyalty and wanting the rules in one
place, but... Mostly only new players will really need it.

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 22:56:02 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Dwarven Opera Singer (Was - Re: SLARP v1.2)
In-Reply-To: <199707110423.AAA21521@******.san.uc.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 00:23 7/11/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>> DWARVEN OPERA SINGER - CONTACT
>>
>
>So Tinner is this contact going to make the next Nerps compliation?

Too late.. already made it into The Shadowrun Supplemental #3 :)

-Adam

--
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
"Can I have a cup of angst to go with my un-happy meal?" -- Hi & Lois
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 00:58:25 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Fri, 11 Jul 1997 00:04:40 -0400"
<970711000347_127188672@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

You wrote:

> I'm Sorry halo, got me confused...I meant that they use one centering skill
> for the first test and a second, different, skill for the second test...I'm a
> master at knowing what is stackable and what isn't...

Meaning one to reduce penalties and one to resist drain? But... I thought that
was specifically disallowed, or are you talking about something else?

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 04:52:24 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Samuel Bucholtz <ssb201@***.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tactical Computer
In-Reply-To: <uf4taha8x6.fsf@*******.hanse.de>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

On Sun, 29 Jun 1997 12:30:13 +0000 (GMT), you wrote:

>Hm. This is rather difficult to rule, though. None of us has
>experienced how much you would gain by a better smell, so the ruling
>would be kinda difficult. PLUS I think this "one die per additional
>sense" is just basically a kind of average. Even if smell doesn't help
>you in one situation it would add three dice in another... this would
>create a rather complicated ruleset of calculating the rating new for
>every encounter (if you're lucky and environmentall conditions do not
>change in between). So they just ruled this kind of an average,
>because it is easier to handle.

I think smell is a very bad example, of a situation adjuster for the =
Tactical
computer. The description seems to make the key function allowing someone=
to
keep track on numerous individuals in a three dimensional space. Scent is=
one of
the least three dimensional of the senses. Hearing an sight are naturally=
the
most 3-d of the senses and are the main way we perceive the world, but =
scent
(even if it is boosted) cannot really help a computer track an opponents
movements. Smells permeate an area becoming diffuse, a dog needs to move =
around
and go back just to pick up a trail for a common scent. It is simply not =
viable
for use with a tactical computer.
>... It would be a trivial thing to do to hook up the
>Tactical Computer to all possible input sources - even if the human
>brain can only process one at a time and hence hase to choose between

The human brain can deal with many forms of input at the same time, the
conscious mind merely has to adapt. For a touch typist they are getting =
sensory
info from their hands, visual input from the screen all at the same time.=
If
someone calls out their name they will still hear it and if something =
brushes
against them they will feel it, all without stopping what they are doing.=
I see
the TacCom as a second subconscious which processes all (stress: all) the
sensory information and then presents it to the conscious mind in a =
direct and
interpreted form unlike the natural subconscious.
When people talk about a "sixth sense", what they are really dealing with=
is a
person who is better at receiving and interpreting information collected =
by
their subconscious mind.

>Low-Light, IR and the like. I think the TacCom rather uses the direct
>input than the one filtered through the human brain... another point
>is: With Cybereyes you always have to chose which spectrum you want to
>access - the desciption says that you add all sensory enhancements up
>to the level not making a difference between whether the human brain
>accesses them at that moment or not.
>

Samuel Bucholtz
ssb201@***.nyu.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 23:10:00 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,
In-Reply-To: <01IL3AMZ2JXY9I4ZP9@******.acs.muohio.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 00:29 7/11/97 -0500, you wrote:
>You wrote:
>> Guaranteed Conception
>> Drain : (F/2)M (even with a complicated modifier added)
>> Range : Touch (this is touch if nothing isn't)
>> Type : Physical (actually, it can Mana as well, similar to Heal/Treat)
>
>> It was used in the games to acquire possibly the most unique arcana I have
>> ever had at any time. The Newborn Embryo.
>Ick. I don't think we need to go here. This sort of idea crops up in games
>like Kult, where it does belong, but not here. Unless you are *really* not
>playing something resembling the ShadowRun I know and love. Gritty, yeah,
>gratuitously grisly and unpleasant, no.

Hrm. Sounds rather fun, actually.. Although I think my view of the
Shadowrun world is a bit more..err.. well, gruesome and nasty. FASA's
Shadowrun is a bit more fluffy and magical than I like.
In todays world, people are stealing/killing/aborting babies.. using it for
some magical purposes is probably more honourable than that, IMO.

-Aj
--
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
"Can I have a cup of angst to go with my un-happy meal?" -- Hi & Lois
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 01:22:43 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Josh Higham <jhigham@******.STUDENT.CWRU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tactical Computer
In-Reply-To: <33c7b92e.352298949@***.nyu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 11 Jul 1997, Samuel Bucholtz wrote:

> On Sun, 29 Jun 1997 12:30:13 +0000 (GMT), you wrote:
>
>
> >Hm. This is rather difficult to rule, though. None of us has
> >experienced how much you would gain by a better smell, so the ruling
> >would be kinda difficult. PLUS I think this "one die per additional
> >sense" is just basically a kind of average. Even if smell doesn't help
> >you in one situation it would add three dice in another... this would
> >create a rather complicated ruleset of calculating the rating new for
> >every encounter (if you're lucky and environmentall conditions do not
> >change in between). So they just ruled this kind of an average,
> >because it is easier to handle.
>
> I think smell is a very bad example, of a situation adjuster for the Tactical
> computer. The description seems to make the key function allowing someone to
> keep track on numerous individuals in a three dimensional space. Scent is one of
> the least three dimensional of the senses. Hearing an sight are naturally the
> most 3-d of the senses and are the main way we perceive the world, but scent
> (even if it is boosted) cannot really help a computer track an opponents
> movements. Smells permeate an area becoming diffuse, a dog needs to move around
> and go back just to pick up a trail for a common scent. It is simply not viable
> for use with a tactical computer.

I think that you underestimate the power of a good nose. Look at
animals with poor sense of sight (at least compared to scent) - they can
keep just as close track of targets as you. The main significance of
vision is in the details...seeing if a person is aiming a gun at you, or
just standing there.

A "fine-tuned" nose is probably just about as good as hearing for
locating people. I personally like the tactical computer, but feel
somewhat munchy if I just go and grab as many sensory boosts as
possible, and most chars can deal with increases in hearing/seeing
ability better than smelling ability. Taste and Touch are the only I
think shouldn't add to the level, because they provide very little
information about location, and then only when in direct contact with the
mark.

I hope I make sense.

*-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-*
Josh Higham jxh25@**.cwru.edu
11904 Carlton Rd. 410A http://129.22.241.146/~jhigham/
Cleveland OH 44106 Anon ftp available at the same site
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 01:28:42 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Magical Magic
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Fri, 11 Jul 1997 00:19:16 -0400 (EDT)"
<19970710.212517.6559.0.z-i-m@****.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

You wrote:
> Well, if you remove the "soak" roll, then all that talk of variable
> versus fixed staging becomes somewhat of a moot point doesn't it? What
> would you do instead? Do you mean remove the resistance roll completely,
> or do you mean use something else?
Ohhhh... maybe remove resistance completely. Let's face it, many physical
attacks you see in modern weapons, a tough body doesn't mean much to them.
Sure a light pistol, a high Body might mean you would survive (I'm giving the
benefit of the doubt here) but realistically, a bullet kill a big person and a
little person in about the same way. Perhaps it would make a difference, but I
think the rule is there to allow PCs to indulge in stuff which by all rights
should get you seriously hurt or killed. How often have you stood and faced
armed opponents instead of diving for cover in SR?

> If you mean to remove the roll completely... I'd have to whole-heartedly
> DISagree. If you do that, you completely remove any sense of uncertainty
> from the game.... and combat becomes unrealistically predictable.
No it doesn't, any more than BattleTech combat in unrealistically
unpredictable. Who gets hit and how hard is still up to fice and character
stats, eh?

> Not to mention you remove any sort of "beyond the ordinary"-ness that is
> half the fun.
Well, that's all a matter of opinion, I don't care for that as much. I like
cyberpunky SR, where you watch your butt and avoid fights because they get
people geeked, sometimes the wrong people. People are a lot more careful about
their char's in Cyberpunk or CyberSpace than they tend to be in SR, because in
SR there are Dice pools and Body rolls to pull your fanny out of the
meatgrinder. In CP people who get shot at often tend to end up as spare parts
in the banks...

losthalo, just defending his POV, knowing SR will never change to suit him, he
just has to tinker with rule alternatives
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 01:40:48 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 10 Jul 1997 23:10:00 -0600"
<3.0.2.32.19970710231000.006f67c8@****.lis.ab.ca>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

You wrote:
> Hrm. Sounds rather fun, actually.. Although I think my view of the
> Shadowrun world is a bit more..err.. well, gruesome and nasty. FASA's
> Shadowrun is a bit more fluffy and magical than I like.
> In todays world, people are stealing/killing/aborting babies.. using it for
> some magical purposes is probably more honourable than that, IMO.
Missed that you were using *aborted*fetuses in this... No, I don't have any
real problem with already-dead matter being used, just prodicing fetuses for
the sake of magical processes. That goes against the grain, to me...
Maybe, if the 'donor' volunteered. But why would such material be useful? It
still comes real close to blood magic, sacrifice of living things, which is
quite verboten in SR as-written.

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 22:56:27 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: [SR3] Centering Skills
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

This has been touched on once or twice in the Mysticism and Rituals
threads. Still, I wanted to bring it up again here in an attempt to
get some definite clarification.

BBB, page 83, tells us that using a skill takes a complex action.

However, a mage once initiated is now somehow able to use his
centering skill (gesturing, incantation, musical instrument, dance,
and so on) in a free action to augment a magic skill that takes a full
complex action unto itself.

I'd like SR3 to better explain how this is accomplished, or perhaps
state something like the complex action PRIOR to the spell/conjuring
test must be used for the centering skill. Otherwise centering just
seems to fly in the face of game mechanics and logic.

===
@>--,--'--- Loki

Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/

"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign

_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 02:19:16 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Focusing Efforts
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Bruce H. Nagel once dared to write,

>Honestly, if it is going to be this, you could do one small book detailing
>the 2nd to 3rd changes and clarifications rather than another Big Book (I'm
>still plugging for EMerald Green for the color :). If all the changes are
>going to be is details that will be compatible with Grim2, VR2.0 '(which I
>admit is nice), and Cybertechnology, you're not changing a helluva lot.

All the big changes are going to be majorly debated and they are
going to be their own threads, such as variable staging. I'm asking for
is all the little stuff that might be looked over. And let's not forget
what Steve (who is a freelancer and not a FASA employee, IIRC) originally
had to tell us.

Steve Kenson wrote,
>It's been five years since Shadowrun's last edition in '92 and FASA felt it
>was time for Shadowrun to be updated to go for another ten years. The main
>rulebook is going to be cleaned up and the rules updated to reflect the many
>changes to Shadowrun in the past few years, including the new decking system
>from VR 2.0 and the new vehicle rules from the Rigger Black Book 2.0. The
>existing rules will also be cleaned up and, hopefully, made more clear so the
>game will be easier to run and play for new players and experienced
>SR-players alike.
and
>Only one caveat: this is a new edition, not a new game. The game rules will
>be cleaned up and clarified, broken rules will be fixed, but the game will
>remain Shadowrun.

This thread is for gathering all the corrections, oversights, and
additions to the system into one reference source. I don't care to see
issues such as which adepts get force points get passed over again
because the dice system was getting overhauled.
I also don't care that you don't think that a 3rd is necessary by
now simply because you have (or should I say will have) the books that
replace the invalid chapters, CHAPTERS mind you. The 3rd edition just to
keep the rules consistent is necessary whether or not you would buy it.
Now please be useful and don't ask to change it simply so you can "get
your money's worth".

Bruce H. Nagel also dared to write,
> This is what AD&D did with its 2nd Edition and it was a disappointment.

Another gripe, stop comparing anything to the 2nd edition AD&D
changeover. All you are listening to is the people that want to vocal
about it so they can bitch, moan, and complain. I worked at a game store
when it came out and for several years after. I just want to know how do
you define disappointment?

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 23:40:03 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Spell List [Longish] (was Re: Mysticism)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

OK, I've pasted in some spells from of my group's design for
bemusement and review. This collection is off my webpage.

Orgasm
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class: Health
Type: Physical
Range: LOS
Target: WILL(R)
Duration: Instant
Drain: (F/2-1)L
Damage: Force L Stun

One of the few "assault" health spells (granted that description is
purely subjective). Along with leaving it's target a wee bit fatigued,
this little beauty also delivers the delicious little side effects
it's name implies.

Note: The original spell designer, Caric, uses an expendable fetish
version that requires glow-in-the-dark condoms to be thrown towards
his target.

~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!

Soul Jar
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class: Manipulation
Type: Mana
Range: LOS
Target: Willpower (threshold)
Duration: Sustained
Drain: [(F/2)+2]D

A nasty little transformation manipulation from the toxic mind of
Death Angel. Soul Jar Forces something similar to astral projection,
separating the target's aura from their meat body. However, rather
than birthing the newly released spirit into the astral realm, the
aura is left unattached within the victim's body. Unable to move
beyond the living tissue, the target is now trapped within a prison of
their own flesh. As in the case with astrally projecting mages, the
target will lose a point of essence each hour, slowly dying.

The caster makes a success against a target number of his opponent's
willpower. The spell is not resisted, instead the successes rolled
must meet or beat a threshold of double the opponent's Essence
(rounded down). Against an average citizen with an essence of five or
six, the spell is not that effective, but where a single success would
be needed against a street samurai with an essence of .7 it could be
potentially devastating.

~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!

Rejuvinate
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class: Health
Type: Physical
Range: LOS
Target: 4
Duration: Permanent (15 turns)
Drain: (F/2+2)M

This spell will remove scars, repair chipped teeth, regrow lost hair
(providing the roots are still present); in general cosmetically
adjusting the physical traumas a runner is left with after healing
(magical or mundane). Note that it will not regrow lost limbs or
repair damaged organs, the spells usefullness is purely on a surface
level.

~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!

Solar Flare
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class: Combat
Type: Physical
Range: LOS
Target: Bod(R)
Duration: Instant
Drain: (F/2+1)D
Damage: Force S

A specialized combat spell using the elemental effects of the sun.
Against a normal target the spell works more or less as a standard
power bolt. However, when cast at a target with an allergy or
vulnerability to sunlight, the spell receives the bonuses listed under
the severity or vulnerability.

~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!

Lugee Blast
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class: Damaging Manipulation
Type: Physical
Range:LOS
Target: 4
Duration: Instant
Drain: (F/2+1)D
damage: Force S stun

Lugee Blast is an area effect spell. This blast covers the target with
saliva and mucas. A secondary effect requires the target to make a
quickness test to keep from falling. The target number for the falling
test is the force of the spell +1 for every 2 successes.

~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!

Integrate Clothing
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class: Manipulation
Type: Physical
Range: Limited
Target: ORT
Duration: Sustained
Drain: (F/2+1)D

When cast, every 2 success will allow five kilograms of equipment,
weapons, and such on your body to disappear and blend in with your
Aura. During the sustained period all of your stuff is gone (no sneaky
walking around naked with an armor rating of 7/2).

===
@>--,--'--- Loki

Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/

"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign

_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 23:22:45 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Hartmann <Hartmann@***********.M.EUNET.DE>
Subject: Re: High Pain Tolerance
In-Reply-To: <199707101758.NAA15345@****.provide.net>

On 10 Jul 97 at 13:58, Justin Pinnow wrote:

> Hi folks. I have a question about the Phys Ad power Pain Tolerance, and
> consequently, the edge High Pain Tolerance.
>

I'd differ here between both, because the edge is intolerably cheap.

> Do you treat 6 boxes of Pain Tolerance as giving the PC immunity to wound
> modifiers for a TOTAL of 6 boxes of damage (whether stun or physical, or
> both), or do you treat it as being immune to 6 boxes of wound modifiers on
> both tracks (physical and stun) at the same time (i.e. a player can have 6
> boxes of physical damage AND 6 boxes of stun without suffering from any
> wound modifiers)?

For the power I rule that it helps both, for the edge it is just
either mental OR physical. You have to decide at character
generation what it will be good for (but that is only a house ruling,
the original rules aren't clear about it)

> Also, do you allow a character who has broken their limit in Pain Tolerance
> to ignore wound modifiers when they heal below their level of Pain
> Tolerance? For example, someone with 6 boxes of pain tolerance takes 8
> boxes of physical damage. When he gets down to 6 boxes, do you rule that
> he has no wound modifiers again?

Yes.

bye mike

---
Download SRCG now: http://manowar.viva-tv.de/srcg
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:57:05 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: Re: an idea...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

William Monroe Ashe wrote:
>
> On Thu, 10 Jul 1997, Dvixen wrote:

[bah. snip all that]

Uh... Bill? How did this end up on ShadowRN? I sent it to SrCreate...

> no I'm not Gurth ... I just play him on t.v.

Wake up man!!! You've been working too hard!!!

--

Dvixen Code-word : Weevil-chuck. dvixen@********.com
"And I thought First Ones were rare." - Ivanova - Babylon 5
Vodka corrupts. Abolut Vodka corrupts absolutely.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 23:39:56 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: Re: "Shadow" of an Apology (to Gurth- OT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Spike wrote:

> >From what I heard, the only characters from B5 that would be in it
> (on a
> regular basis) were Marcus and Ivanova.

Really?!!?! I'm there! Woot!

> They get on SOOOOO well together....

Yep. Expecially since he's rarer than a first one, and she's... well,
she's Ivanova. ;)

Hrmmm... If Ivanova followed a totwm, SR style, which one would it be?

--

Dvixen Code-word : Weevil-chuck. dvixen@********.com
"And I thought First Ones were rare." - Ivanova - Babylon 5
First High Priest of the Church of the Squooshy Ball.
Been there, done that, got the tshirt, wore it out. Now what do I wear?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 10:57:29 +0000
Reply-To: shadowrn@********.ITRIBE.NET
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <goll1@********.hab-weimar.de>
From: Raven <florian.goll@******.UNI-WEIMAR.DE>
Subject: Re: MP laser & mirrors
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970710220607.007aecc0@***.iquest.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Jaymz said
> Has anyone ever tried to deal with the MP laser and mirrors?
>
> Eg. a mirrored shield of some sort?
> Also using a mirror to assist aiming and aiming around corners, etc?

The Problem with this is, Lasers-Beams are _really_ hot (they cook
the victim away), so you'll need very good and heat resistable
Mirrors for that one, Plastic will melt and the silver-coating of
normal mirrors will burn away. All IMHO of course :)

Raven-the-don't-shoot-a-laser-at-my-mirrored-windows-Rigger
--Raven

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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 02:28:28 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,
In-Reply-To: <01IL3D1VEQYU9I4ZP9@******.acs.muohio.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:40 7/11/97 -0500, you wrote:
>You wrote:
>> Hrm. Sounds rather fun, actually.. Although I think my view of the
>> Shadowrun world is a bit more..err.. well, gruesome and nasty. FASA's
>> Shadowrun is a bit more fluffy and magical than I like.
>> In todays world, people are stealing/killing/aborting babies.. using it for
>> some magical purposes is probably more honourable than that, IMO.
>Missed that you were using *aborted*fetuses in this... No, I don't have any
>real problem with already-dead matter being used, just prodicing fetuses for
>the sake of magical processes. That goes against the grain, to me...

I wasn't the one that made the original post, so I can't say if they used
already aborted fetuses or not.
While I Personally have a problem with people aborting babies, killing them
upon birth, killing in general, I can accept it as something that happens.
And in 205x, it would probably be more and more frequent.

This is where the 'adult discussion disclaimer' part of the FAQ applies, I
think..:)
Wait, I'm not officially an adult.. eek!

-Adam
--
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
"Can I have a cup of angst to go with my un-happy meal?" -- Hi & Lois
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 10:42:32 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Allergy and exclusivity
In-Reply-To: <199707101329.JAA22111@www.ctghub.com>;
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Drekhead said on 9:32/10 Jul 97...

> I have a character with an allergy. Would exposure to it be
> distracting enough to keep them from using an exclusive spell?

I'd say it doesn't -- being subject to an allergy isn't a magical activity
like banishing a spirit or casting a spell, and that's what this
exclusivity is supposed to be: the ability to only cast one spell at a
time. I'd give the character the normal modifier fo being subject to an
allergy, and let him/her cast the spell with that.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Two words: therapy.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 10:42:32 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Return of MC23
In-Reply-To: <199707101305.JAA23110@*********.mindspring.com>
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MC23 said on 9:05/10 Jul 97...

> Caric once dared to write,
>
> >MC23 and TopCat...can you say oil and water? I think you can. :)
> >
> >This is gonna be fun!
>
> I feel cheated! So far me and TopCat has gotten along fine.

Maybe Caric's "oil and water" analogy wasn't so far from the truth, just
in a different way than intended :)

> I'll just have to pick a fight with somebody else. Hey Gurth, remember
> all those bad things I said about and later apologized for, well I take
> it all back! Now what you goning to do about it?

Killfile you :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Two words: therapy.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 10:42:32 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: (Skill+Att)/2
In-Reply-To: <2ED3EE7481B@******.eee.rgu.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Mark Steedman said on 13:32/10 Jul 97...

> The BIG problem with systems like this is that it is often FAR FAR
> cheaper to just buy every skill in dight at 1 and then buy your
> attributes to silly levels than it is to buy the skills up because of
> the knock on affect it has.

For this reason I like the way Millennium's End handles attributes: they
get incorporated into skills, but only for about 10% of their value.
Unlike for example the WW games where the attribute is 100% present, and
thus where someone with Dexterity 5 and Firearms 0 is as good a shot as
someone with Dexterity 1 and Firearms 4.

However, this wouldn't work in SR because ME uses a percentile system,
whereas in SR the steps are much bigger. The partial defaulting rules from
the Companion appear to me to be a much better solution than adding
attributes and skills straight together.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Two words: therapy.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 10:42:32 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: More Elvis jokes (was Re: an idea...)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970710084010.25935A-100000@******.tamu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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William Monroe Ashe said on 8:41/10 Jul 97...

> no I'm not Gurth ... I just play him on t.v.

Does this mean that after I die I will be spotted in supermarkets all over
the world? :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Two words: therapy.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 03:38:59 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: More Elvis jokes (was Re: an idea...)
In-Reply-To: <199707110841.KAA03751@**********.xs4all.nl>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:42 7/11/97 +0100, you wrote:
>William Monroe Ashe said on 8:41/10 Jul 97...
>
>> no I'm not Gurth ... I just play him on t.v.
>
>Does this mean that after I die I will be spotted in supermarkets all over
>the world? :)

Amish communities don't generally have supermarkets.. :)

(Inside joke, everyone.)

*snicker*

-Adam

--
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
"Can I have a cup of angst to go with my un-happy meal?" -- Hi & Lois
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:04:16 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: out Fishing
In-Reply-To: <33C50E97.4B1@****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Bryan L. Nylander said on 9:32/10 Jul 97...

> Quick Newbie question:
> how do I disable sends to this account while I am away?

Send the command SET SHADOWRN NOMAIL to listserv@***tproc.itribe.net.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:04:17 +0100
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Optional Metatypes, part 3: Sasquatch
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Black Death said on 18:50/10 Jul 97...

> I agree with Bull. I have always thought due to their vocal cords' make
> up that they were not able to speak any complicated languages.

Yet they can reproduce sounds of cars, dog,s aircraft, horses, etc.
without any problem? This has always appeared a bit strange to me...

> Take a look at dogs they can be taught single syllable words and their
> meaning. Yet they cannot speak our language.

They can only be taught them because you have to say the same word over
and over again, and reward them if they do what you want. Once they know
that if you say "sit" they have to sit, they'll do it. However, all
they're doing is responding to the specific sound of the word "sit," not
to its meaning. That's the difference between understanding a language and
knowing command words.

Sasquatches are supposed to have a language of their own, but it hasn't
been interpreted by (meta)humans yet, and the P-A sign language only
allows limited communication; however, both these indicate sasquatches
understand the meaning of words rather than responding to commands they've
been taught (as they should, if they're a sentient species).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:04:18 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: [SR3] Centering Skills
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Loki said on 22:56/10 Jul 97...

> BBB, page 83, tells us that using a skill takes a complex action.
>
> However, a mage once initiated is now somehow able to use his
> centering skill (gesturing, incantation, musical instrument, dance,
> and so on) in a free action to augment a magic skill that takes a full
> complex action unto itself.

The explanation for that isn't too hard to find: you're doing the
Centering skill at the same time as the magic skill, else the Centering
wouldn't do anything at all.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:04:16 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Centering vs Penalties (was Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals)
In-Reply-To: <199707101721.KAA01954@*******.>
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mike.paff@*****.COM said on 10:21/10 Jul 97...

> > |Any opinions? Which option is used in your groups?
> >
> > Do you mean, "What's the T# for the centering skill?".
> > That is the basic target number for the thing you're doing + penalties.
> > Successes reduce the penalties of the actual skill/spell you're using....

Hate to contradict you, Spike, but for centering against penalties the TN
is the same as for the magical skill test, minus the magician's initiation
grade -- i.e. if you're a Grade 0 initiate casting Power Bolt at a troll
with Body 10 and you're suffering from a Moderate wound, the Centering TN
is 12.

> True, but for an area effect combat spell, there are multiple TNs
> involved, one for each target. Which one is used?

The trouble with this situation is that the spell has multiple TNs (namely
one for each target in range), while the Centering test should probably
have only one. I'd do this by rolling the Centering test and comparing it
to the TN for each target, then noting the successes rolled. The penalties
for each target are then reduced by one-half the successes against that
target.

A quicker, but not as accurate, way would be to use the average TNs.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:04:18 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: MP laser & mirrors
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Jaymz said on 22:06/10 Jul 97...

> Has anyone ever tried to deal with the MP laser and mirrors?
>
> Eg. a mirrored shield of some sort?

I don't know enough about lasers to know if that would work. At first I'd
say yes, but anyon walking around with a large mirror deserves everything
that gets fired at him... (Why do you think attack helicopter cockpits
have nearly flat glass plates instead of the curved ones that were so
popular 25+ years ago?)

> Also using a mirror to assist aiming and aiming around corners, etc?

With an MP laser? Should be possible, if you use a laser sight (easy
enough to make by powering down the output of the MP laser). Otherwise
it's extremely hard to aim properly through a mirror, since you're not
looking in the same direction as the weapon anymore. (Unless you decide to
make one of those curved barrel attachments that existed for the StG-44 at
the end of WWII.)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:04:17 +0100
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Centering vs Penalties (was Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals)
In-Reply-To: <199707102128.RAA22886@********.mcit.com>
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Caric said on 13:24/10 Jul 97...

> Hmmm...well Mike I would probably say that the target the spell is centered
> on id=s the target number I would use. The peanties will be accross the
> board anyway, but the main target of the spell is that one person after
> all.

If you think about this a bit more, it's possible to cast a spell centered
on a point in space, not on any specific person. Also, some targets in the
area of effect may have different penalties (when one is in a cloud of
smoke while the rest aren't, for example).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:04:17 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: High Pain Tolerance
In-Reply-To: <199707101758.NAA15345@****.provide.net>
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Justin Pinnow said on 13:58/10 Jul 97...

> Do you treat 6 boxes of Pain Tolerance as giving the PC immunity to wound
> modifiers for a TOTAL of 6 boxes of damage (whether stun or physical, or
> both), or do you treat it as being immune to 6 boxes of wound modifiers on
> both tracks (physical and stun) at the same time (i.e. a player can have 6
> boxes of physical damage AND 6 boxes of stun without suffering from any
> wound modifiers)?

SRII says "Points purchased work equally on both the Physical and Stun
Condition Monitors." so I read that to mean that if you buy 6 points, you
can have a Serious Physical and a Serious Stun wound and still suffer no
TN modifiers.

> Also, do you allow a character who has broken their limit in Pain Tolerance
> to ignore wound modifiers when they heal below their level of Pain
> Tolerance? For example, someone with 6 boxes of pain tolerance takes 8
> boxes of physical damage. When he gets down to 6 boxes, do you rule that
> he has no wound modifiers again?

Yes. At that point the pain resistance equals or exceeds the damage taken,
so wound modifiers no longer apply.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:04:17 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: cyberware and it's effects on the psyche and body
In-Reply-To: <199707102004.WAA22616@******.scc.uni-weimar.de>
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Raven said on 22:41/10 Jul 97...

> Gurth spoke wisely
> > None that we know of. Cyberpsychosis doesn't exist in SR *chants to self
> > "Don't start that thread! Don't start that thread!"*
>
> Do you think this will help????

Not really, but you don't know until you try it...

> Okay guys, who wants Cyberpsychosis in SR ;)

I surely don't. I agree with Rat that there's no realistic reason why
people should start behaving violently due to cyberware implants...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 04:30:00 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: NPC/Location Database Ideas
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A few days back I posted regarding a program I was writing, Pocket
Secretary. Since I actually recieved feedback (Wow!), I figured I would
fish around for a few more ideas. Having only 3 hours online a day gives
one time for things such as programming.

Currently Pocket Secretary has the following features.

* Dice Rolling, Initiative, Rule of 6 stuff.
* Random LTG Number generator. (I can't make a random number for the life
of me)
* Matrix v1.0 Text Styler. (Automagically makes Matrix v1.0 style text things)
* Currency Converter. Integrated into Pocket Secretary and fixed up.
* NPC Database, Location Databank.

This is the area I would like feedback on -- what do you commonly record
when you write down an NPC's stats? Is there something that you think is
important that other character sheets/programs forget?
And, of course, anything else funky you can think of :]

-Adam

--
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
"Can I have a cup of angst to go with my un-happy meal?" -- Hi & Lois
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 00:56:27 -1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "... ..." <Brother-1@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] Sid and Marty Krofft (was Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks)
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>HRP in reruns 'til about '77
Depends, I think, on your location. Alabama stations aired it into the
early '80s (around '82 or so) IIRC.
I was overseas during the '70s, but managed to catch some HRP episodes
when I went to 'Bama right on '80.

Brother-1 the nothing-like-a-certain-gencon-attending-magekin.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 01:10:32 -1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "... ..." <Brother-1@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks
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>Maybe I'm a little out of touch here, but what is a
>sleestak?
S&M Kroft's "Land of the Lost" bad guys (aside from the dinosaurs), who
held alien technology in their main lair that eventually, I think,
allowed the protagonists to escape. They made hissing noises and pinched
the air in front of them. I think they also shed their skins. Other than
that, I don't know.

Brother-1, associate to "The Guild", refuge for Otaku in the Seattle
sprawl.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 01:28:08 -1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "... ..." <Brother-1@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: cyberware and it's effects on the psyche and body
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>who wants Cyberpsychosis in SR?
Nope.
>Can't see a realistic reason for it
Extensive headware, maybe second hand...
Ever see the movie "Body Parts"? I think that's the one where the guy
tries to put himself back together...
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 01:30:45 -1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "... ..." <Brother-1@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: books again
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>place books tend not to be liked...
Why not send in to FASA for a 2nd ed place book, or errata. Maybe put in
your two cents when they announce that they're gonna make one?
Incidentally, aside from "Paradise Lost" and a brief mention in
"Underworld Sourcebook", IIRC, is there any info on Hawaii?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 01:34:06 -1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "... ..." <Brother-1@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] Sid and Marty Krofft (was Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks)
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>love the Butthole Surfers version of "Underdog"
The Ramones "Spiderman" and Frente!'s version of "Open up your heart and
let the sun shine in" are most excellent. The CD is adorable all around.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:54:17 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <pr-MIke@************.Germany.EU.net>
From: Mike Hartmann <hartmann@***********.M.EUNET.DE>
Subject: Re: (Skill+Att)/2
In-Reply-To: <199707110841.KAA03739@**********.xs4all.nl>
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Gurth wrote:

> For this reason I like the way Millennium's End handles attributes: they
[...]
> However, this wouldn't work in SR because ME uses a percentile system,
> whereas in SR the steps are much bigger. The partial defaulting rules from
> the Companion appear to me to be a much better solution than adding
> attributes and skills straight together.

What about giving out bonus-dice for high attributes or
targetnumber-reductions (like with healing or recoil-comp)?
mike
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:15:24 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: 2XS/Dirk Montgomery ['Vulnerability' of characters]
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Nightlife says:
> Dirk is definately amusing. At least when he get's hit with a dumpster
>his reply is to fall to the ground and say Duh! That kind of vulneralility
>impresses me unlike characters like Striper or the group from Black Madonna,
>Geriant and his buddies.
>
>To which Victor sternly replys:
>
> DON'T EVEN GO THERE, Nightlife. Just because Geraint and his friends had
>more money than you're comfortable with, didn't make them any less
>'vulnerable'. When they got shot or beaten, they hurt just like many other
>characters. And, unlike many 'hardcore' Shadowrunners, they still had
>conscience enough to be horrified by certain 'circumstances' they
>encountered, as opposed to the 'average' well, it IS the cynical, 6th World,
>and I don't give a DAMN about anyone but myself', mentality.
>
>---------------------------------------------------------
>'Do not succumb to the way of thinking that has trapped so many in this time.
>Heroism has not vanished from the universe. It is hidden, certainly, more raw
>in form and subtler in manifestation. But heroes do walk the cynical streets
>of the Sixth World.'
> --A certain dragon...[Thanks, Jak]
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:23:55 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: High Pain Tolerance
In-Reply-To: <199707102128.RAA25312@****.provide.net>
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> > I believe the book makes it fairly clear that it treats EACH track
> > separately. (6 on each, each passed independently of the other)
> "Points purchased work equally on both the Physical and Stun
> Condition Monitors"
>
> That is actually a bit ambiguous. It could be taken to mean that
> this power can be applied to either the Physical or the Stun

Oh, I guess _I_ just saw this as clear. I'd say since it says "work
equally" as opposed to "can work equally" it implies that it does
work...active tense...on both. Can anyone else back me up here?

> > > Also, do you allow a character who has broken their limit in Pain
> > > Tolerance to ignore wound modifiers when they heal below their level

> I agree with you, but you missed the point of the question. My
> question
> *looking above* had to do when the character healed to a level normally
> within their pain tolerance. Now what is your opinion?

Opps. Sorry. Good question that. I'd say yes, it does allow them
to heal ignoring the penalties. But I have no official backing for
this....

-=SwiftOne=-
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:36:05 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: [SR3] Magical Magic
In-Reply-To: <01IL3CTDWTP69I4ZP9@******.acs.muohio.edu>
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> You wrote:
> > Well, if you remove the "soak" roll, then all that talk of variable
> > versus fixed staging becomes somewhat of a moot point doesn't it? What
> > would you do instead? Do you mean remove the resistance roll completely,
> > or do you mean use something else?
> Ohhhh... maybe remove resistance completely. Let's face it, many
> physical attacks you see in modern weapons, a tough body doesn't
> mean much to them. Sure a light pistol, a high Body might mean you
> would survive (I'm giving the benefit of the doubt here) but

Frankly, the only way to remove the resistance roll AND still have a
high body count for something is to switch to a hit points system.
HARSH. Realize that a high bosy rarely does anything for you in SR
unless you have armor too, in which case survival does become a
possibility.

If you want to increase the lethality of damage....play it harder.
Make Armor less common, and have Lone Star and others crack down on
it. Have the enemies start making called shots. ETc.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:43:20 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Spell List [Longish] (was Re: Mysticism)
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<snip spell listing>

You guys are REALLY sick, you know that!?!
Loved Rejuvinate and Solar Flare, but LUGEE BLAST?!?!?
EEEUUUUUUWWWW!!!!!!!!!
I feel slimy just thinking about it!

----------------------------------------------------------

'Egon, your mucus.'
--Peter Venkman, Ghostbusters
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:19:06 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dwarven Opera Singer (Was - Re: SLARP v1.2)
In-Reply-To: <199707110335.XAA14963@****.provide.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Thu, 10 Jul 1997, Justin Pinnow wrote:

> time. I'm in no rush...just want a nice juicy contact for him. :) I love
> your ideas! :) They're so evil! ;)
>
> Thanks again for all your help. Your ideas are priceless to a new GM like
> me. :)
>
> Justin :)

Aieee, another convert to the cause of evil GM'ing

-Bill
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:30:15 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: an idea...
Comments: cc: SRcreate <srcreate@****.NET>
In-Reply-To: <33C55AB1.5DB97D8B@********.com>
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On Thu, 10 Jul 1997, Dvixen wrote:

> William Monroe Ashe wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, 10 Jul 1997, Dvixen wrote:
>
> [bah. snip all that]
>
> Uh... Bill? How did this end up on ShadowRN? I sent it to SrCreate...
>
> > no I'm not Gurth ... I just play him on t.v.
>
> Wake up man!!! You've been working too hard!!!
>

A quick check ... OOPS!!!, I will now put on the blindfold, stand against
the wall, and await the carp firing squad.

a thousand pardons

-Bill
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:39:55 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: MP laser & mirrors
In-Reply-To: <199707110821.KAA04292@******.scc.uni-weimar.de>
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On Fri, 11 Jul 1997, Raven wrote:

>
> The Problem with this is, Lasers-Beams are _really_ hot (they cook
> the victim away), so you'll need very good and heat resistable
> Mirrors for that one, Plastic will melt and the silver-coating of
> normal mirrors will burn away. All IMHO of course :)

Actually that is not quite true, I work with lasers all of the time, the
thing is the "energy density" i.e. how much energy you pack into some
area. For a laser weapon to work, it must have a very tight focus right
at te impact point. If not, all a person would get is a mild burn.
Now, as I understand it the Ares MP-2 laser is an ultraviolet laser. UV
lasers are particulary dispersive in air. So the beam would have to be
very carefully focussed.

Game wise that is not a problem, couple the laser focussing optics
to a range finder and *whammo* you're a crispy critter. But, anywhere
except at the focus point the beam would be "rather" broad, and could be
reflected quite easily.
Now certain metals relfect UV light very well others don't. The
best UV mirrors are front surfaced aluminum. Silver absorbs very
strongly at certain UV. In fact most commercial mirrors are now aluminum.

If you want more info, e-mail me privatly. We could post a summary to
the list when we're done.

Regards

William Ashe (Bill)
Stored Ion and Laser Physics Lab
Texas A&M University
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 07:43:03 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Storytelling
In-Reply-To: <199707080843.CAA07163@******> from "Gurth" at Jul 7,
97 09:19:00 pm
Content-Type: text

Gurth wrote:
|
| David Buehrer said on 7:47/ 7 Jul 97...
|
| > So you switch to Shadowrun and take ManaMissile and Fireball out of
| > habit, not realizing that the difference between AD$D and Shadowrun
| > is that Shadowrun is designed to be a Roleplaying game :) It takes a
| > little while to figure that out (in general).
|
| I'll second that. At first the majority of the SR adventures I designed
| were really heavy on combat, but the more recent ones have involved less
| and less firefights. Thinking now of the Elvis adventure that's still
| fresh in my memory, I was almost tempted not to have the shoot-out with
| the killer at the end, since one of the players remarked that they'd just
| done a whole adventure without firing a shot and had a great time...

I just did pretty much the same thing, and it went great. I also
learned another nice trick, (as the GM) you don't need to role dice
to decide the outcome of a conflict between NPCs. In the final
combat I had a Troll that was attacking both the NPCs and the Special
Forces squad sent by the CAS (to steal the chemical weapons for
themselves). I wanted the Troll to wax the SF squad, if the PCs
didn't interfere. Sure enough the PCs dove for cover when the Troll
charged in and the SF started blazing.

I didn't want to have the outcome between the NPCs decided by chance,
so I went into story telling mode. As the troll is charging in one
of the SF guys gets off a shot and blows the troll's left arm clean
off. The troll doesn't even slow down (pain editor), picks up one of
the SF guys by the head, and *crushes* his head against a wall. (At
this point the PCs can move, and get the hell out of dodge, diving
behind cover.) Now the PCs hear another stacato of gunfire and
bullets ricochetting off the steel walls, a scream, and see one of
the SF guys go flying into the SF Sargent (whom they can see).
Another PC who's hiding at the other end of the room watches *half*
of an SF guy go flying by...

All of this went quickly, and made a hell of an impression on the
PCs. But would you believe that one of them decided to take on the
troll anyway? At that point I pulled out the dice and proceeded to
wail on the PC (somehow she still lived through it <GM sigh>).

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:03:28 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Staging and Drain
In-Reply-To: <199707102346.RAA02964@******> from "Bruce H. Nagel" at Jul
10,
97 07:44:17 pm
Content-Type: text

Bruce H. Nagel wrote:
|
| You wrote:
| > And again, the Power and the Damage Level combine to accurately
| > affect the ease with which a character can resist damage from an
| > Attack/Drain/Whatever.
|
| And my way of doing things does something similar, it's just a
different | approach. I've run into this same thing looking at
modifying the Mage system, | deciding whether more successes required
or higher difficulty numbers should be | the way to make something more
difficult. A little of each gives greater | flexibility, imo.

Okay, I have been thinking about this and I do think there is a place for
this concerning Drain Resistance. I don't know how it fits in with
the philosophy of SR's Magic though. If magic "flows" differently,
depending on what you're trying to do, then variable staging works
for me. For example: 5S2 and 5M3 both require 6 successes to counter
the drain. But that 5S2 could be seen as a quick flow of magic (kind
of like tearing the mage's aura/spirit), while the 5M3 could be seen
as a steady flow of the same ammount of magic (like a nice clean
cut). So if you've got a spell that could be cast with a simple
action the magic flows fast and furious so you've got a higher base
damage level with a staging of 2. If your casting a spell that
requires a complex action the magic's flow is strong and steady and
has a lower base damage level. Ritual spells which take a round or
more to cast could have a staging of 4 or more, with a lower base
damage level with respect to what you're trying to accomplish.

I still don't think that staging is appropriate for combat however.
There is just to much going on in SR's abstract system (attacking,
dodging, resisting, armor, etc) that I feel that changing the staging
of attacks will throw it out of balance.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:44:17 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Sasquatch Language
In-Reply-To: <199707111009.EAA11081@******> from "Gurth" at Jul 11,
97 12:04:17 pm
Content-Type: text

Gurth wrote:
|
| > I agree with Bull. I have always thought due to their vocal cords' make
| > up that they were not able to speak any complicated languages.
|
| Sasquatches are supposed to have a language of their own, but it hasn't
| been interpreted by (meta)humans yet, and the P-A sign language only
| allows limited communication; however, both these indicate sasquatches
| understand the meaning of words rather than responding to commands they've
| been taught (as they should, if they're a sentient species).

Last I heard linguists had figured out that there are two basic types
of languages. Either the language has modifiers as seperate entities
(like english, "Pick up the ball."), or the modifiers are attached to
nouns and in somecases can change the noun completely (Inuit and
Australian Aboriginy (I think)). In some cases the second type is
able to create one word that translates into an entire sentance of
the first type.

Anyway, if Sasquatch are sentient their probably using the second
type with some bizarre ass modifiers (could be based on time, mood,
magical perceptions, etc), and linguists can't crack it because they
don't know the controlling algorithm. Its theorized that the same
problem would occur if whales were sentient. It's allready proven
that whale song changes from season to season (but their not sure if
its actually changing because of the season).

If Sasquatch are sentient they probably have a perception so far
different from our own that communication is going to be a bitch.

Or, they could be like very smart dogs, able to follow commands but
without the ability to comprehend language.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:46:42 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: BV Totems
In-Reply-To: <199707110715.BAA09616@******> from "Dvixen" at Jul 10,
97 11:39:56 pm
Content-Type: text

Dvixen wrote:
|
| Hrmmm... If Ivanova followed a totwm, SR style, which one would it be?

Dog. She's definitely family oriented and loyal to her friends. But
she doesn't have the same prediliction towards combat that Garabaldi
has. And, she can be one hell of a bitch :)

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:48:25 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Dwarven Opera Singer (Was - Re: SLARP v1.2)
In-Reply-To: <199707110336.VAA19632@******> from "Justin Pinnow" at Jul
10,
97 11:34:38 pm
Content-Type: text

Justin Pinnow wrote:
|
| Any good ideas for that entymologist? My player is bugging me for his
| contacts, and I have them all done, except for that one. Don't worry about
| time. I'm in no rush...just want a nice juicy contact for him. :)

Entymologist... bugging... juicy. You are twisted :) (or maybe it's
me)

I let my players create their own contacts (with approval from me).

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 07:47:31 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mike.paff@*****.COM
Subject: Re: Changing the System (Was [SR3] Magical Magic)

From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
> You wrote:
> > Damage Staging 1 .... +1 Drain Category
> > Drain Staging 1 .... +1 Drain Category
>
> > Drain Staging 2 .... No Modifier
> > Damage Staging 2 .... No Modifier
>
> > Drain Staging 3 .... -1 Drain Category
> > Damage Staging 3 .... -1 Drain Category
>
> > By this I mean that it would take 3 successes to stage things for Drain
> > Staging 3, etc...sorry to cut this short, gotta walk the dog really quick...
> Well, I think I would still go with Staging 2 for all spells for raising the
> damage, but would maybe go for variable staging in the damage resistance
> (otherwise the staging cuts both ways and changes very little).
>
If you incorporate these changes, make certain that if the target gets more
successes than the caster, he takes no damage. Otherwise, spellcasters
will create base Deadly spells, damage staging 3, and the target would
need to get 12+ successes to take no damage, and the spellcaster would have
less drain in the process.

Mike Paff
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:52:28 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks
In-Reply-To: <199707110111.TAA09424@******> from "GRANITE" at Jul 10,
97 07:07:36 pm
Content-Type: text

GRANITE wrote:
|
| > I think someone's age is showing, and it is probably me becvause I know
| > what they were, right along with Wonderbuggy,and Electrowoman and Dynagirl.
|
| You forgot Arc 2, Isis, and Shazam.

Arc 2, my god I had forgotten all about that show. The early to
mid-seventies had the best saturday morning cartoons ever! (If you
were in the US)

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:56:18 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: SR I question
In-Reply-To: <199707111003.MAA21784@**********.xs4all.nl>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

How do you tell if a book is the first printing?

The game store here has a used copy of SR I and claims it to be first
printing and there doesn't seem to be any kind of print code in it.

How do you tell?

--
/-justin@****.mcp.com----------------------jbell@****.mcp.com--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:04:39 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Staging
In-Reply-To: <199707102351.RAA03222@******> from "Bruce H. Nagel" at Jul
10,
97 07:47:29 pm
Content-Type: text

Bruce H. Nagel wrote:
|
[snip]
|
| These examples don't really illustrate what I was thinking about,
so I'll try | to be more clear. It may be easy for me to aim a shot
at someone with a | firearm, but not easy to dodge it. Thus, it
might require more successes to | dodge the attack than to improve
the shot and increase the damage level. But | as you've been saying,
that could be done through higher T#'s rather than a | higher damage
staging # (SR2 vs. SR1, basically). In some cases, I see it as |
being so great a difference in difficulty that a lower staging for
attack would | make sense to me, as well as perhaps an easier target
number (since skills | limit the number of dice you can throw at a
test).

<Bill Nye> Consider the following. With Drain it's the caster vs the
magic and you can create valid reasons for variable staging (see my
other post). However, combat has several things going on. There's
the attack test, the dodge test, the damage resistance test. And
these can be modified by a multitude of variables: perception, BF,
AF, armor, wounds, etc. And the system is abstract in nature. It
doesn't reflect what happens in combat, it *represents* what happens
in combat. IMO, you would be making a reflective adjustment to a
representative system, and would throw things out of balance in the
proccess.

Anyway, I feel that I've said all I can say and I think I did a
pretty good job of expressing myself. (Not to mean that I won't
debate this anymore :) But at this point its heading toward a
philosophical debate and if it does I'll say what I said in a
previous post, you can do whatever you want to in your game :)

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 11:32:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: URGENT - Harlequin help needed
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Anyone who has the original Harlequin module I need HELP!

What are the aspects of the targets life that the player of Chal'han must
demonstrate mastery over?
All I can remember are Loves and Hates.

I have forgotten, and loaned out my book, but I need to know before 2 pm
EST today!

Thanks!

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"Uh-oh! Chongo!"
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 17:38:14 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paolo Marcucci <paolo@*********.IT>
Subject: Re: NPC/Location Database Ideas
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 04:30 11/07/97 -0600, Adam J said:
>Currently Pocket Secretary has the following features.
>
>* Dice Rolling, Initiative, Rule of 6 stuff.
>* Random LTG Number generator. (I can't make a random number for the life
>of me)
>* Matrix v1.0 Text Styler. (Automagically makes Matrix v1.0 style text
things)
>* Currency Converter. Integrated into Pocket Secretary and fixed up.
>* NPC Database, Location Databank.

* Matrix 2.0 host generator (get the perl source and convert :)
* Run notes
* Linkable to external programs (a configurable button bar to call, for
example, the skillsoft converter)
* Source code :)
* A kind of campaign diary, full searchable and with report funct... what?
I'm asking too much? :)
____________________________________________________________
Paolo Marcucci paolo@*********.it
InterWare Service Provider Trieste, Italy
http://www.interware.it/ Tel. +39-40-360630
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 05:54:24 -1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "... ..." <Brother-1@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: URGENT - Harlequin help needed
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MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV)

Spoiler?

Just wanna make sure nobody who doesn't wanna know knows, ya know?
Physical, Loves, Hates, Past, Present, Spiritual and Future.

Brother-1, not perfect, but wait 'til I upgrade!!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 11:59:57 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@*****.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: URGENT - Harlequin help needed
In-Reply-To: <199707111526.LAA04649@***.ncweb.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On 11 Jul 97 at 11:32, Steven A. Tinner wrote:

> What are the aspects of the targets life that the player of Chal'han must
> demonstrate mastery over?
> All I can remember are Loves and Hates.

Sorry, don't have my book either, but I know Past and Future are
two more.

==

=DREKHEAD========================================================
drekhead@***.net --- http://users.aol.com/drekhead/home.html ---
=================================================================
=================================================================
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot
stomping on a human face...forever. -George Orwell
=================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 17:27:54 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Fetish & Exclusive Spells (suggestions)
In-Reply-To: <3130763A19@**.opp.psu.edu> from "Brett Borger" at Jul 10,
97 05:10:56 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|
|> |-Conditional Geasa (Day/Night) -1 Power
|> |-Conditional Geasa (Night's of the Full Moon, the High Noon of the Summer
|> |Solstice, etc..) -1 Drain Category
|> NO! Geasa are NOT like that! No-one should EVER gain a bonus of any
|> kind from using a geas. (They get PENALTIES for NOT using them....)

|Um, Spike? not to be rude....but I think you missed the beggining of
|this thread where Steve Kenson was talking about MAKING geasa work
|differently for SR3.

I did skip a little, but the point still stands.
Geasa should NOT give bonuses for ANY reason, ever......
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 17:29:36 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] Sid and Marty Krofft (was Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks)
In-Reply-To: <199707102115.RAA23740@*********.mindspring.com> from "MC23"
at
Jul 10, 97 05:14:41 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|
|Spike once dared to write,
|
|>>H.R.Puffenstuff (An acid
|>>trip if ever there was one, including a magic talking Freddie the Flute.
|>>Draw your own conclusions from that), and a LOT more.
|>
|>AT LAST! One that I recognize! Seen the film, would LOVE to see the series.
|>Alas, it's not been on for 20+ years over here.....
|
| Would LOVE to see the series? I salute your dementia but I lose
|respect for your taste.

Hey, how can I know how bad the series is without seeing it?
(OK, so, I quite liked the film.....)

I like most of the old Irwin Allen series as well, like Lost in Space and
The Time Tunnel (despite the cop-out ending).....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 10:33:54 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Fetish & Exclusive Spells (suggestions)
In-Reply-To: <199707111628.KAA21548@******> from "Spike" at Jul 11,
97 05:27:54 pm
Content-Type: text

Spike wrote:
|
| I did skip a little, but the point still stands.
| Geasa should NOT give bonuses for ANY reason, ever......

For involuntary Geasa sure. But what if the magician voluntarily
takes a Geasa?

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 17:44:57 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] Sid and Marty Krofft (was Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks)
In-Reply-To:
<c=US%a=_%pÞSHAW%l=MSBOSTON1-970710214216Z-6759@*********.boston.deshaw.com>
from "Fisher,
Victor" at Jul 10, 97 05:42:16 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

|'Where's my mag sight? WHERE's MATLOCK?!?'

?????

Matlock??? That's in Derbyshire... It's a small Spa town in the peak
district national park (or right on the edge of it)....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 17:47:58 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Changing the System (Was [SR3] Magical Magic)
In-Reply-To: <970710185557_1927245442@*******.mail.aol.com> from "J. Keith
Henry" at Jul 10, 97 06:55:58 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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|By this I mean that it would take 3 successes to stage things for Drain
|Staging 3, etc...sorry to cut this short, gotta walk the dog really quick...

If you want, I'll post up the design rules from the Grimoire. Give you an
idea of how it SHOULD be done( and was, in 1st Ed ).....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 17:51:46 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Babylon 5 Drift (OT, possible B5 spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <970710192229_-1829338797@*******.mail.aol.com> from "J. Keith
Henry" at Jul 10, 97 07:22:33 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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|
|In a message dated 97-07-10 09:10:31 EDT, shergold@***********.net (Shergold)
|writes:
|
|>
|>
|>
|> I saw up to and including the episode where that telepath gave Garibaldi
|> his memories back, after giving Sheridan to Clark's people.
|>
|> SilverFire
|>
|Yeah, that I saw too...oops, forgot the advanced spoiler blocker...

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!!!!

IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!

I TOLD EVERYONE I DID *NOT* WANT TO SEE *ANY*... **ANY** SPOILERS FOR
BABYLON 5!!!!!!!!!!!!

git

##### # # # # ## #####
# # # # # # # # #
# ###### # # # # # #
# # # # ## # ###### #####
# # # ## ## # # #
# # # # # # # #

####### ####### ####### ###
# # # # ###
# # # # ###
# # # # #
# # # #
# # # # ###
####### ####### # ###

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:14:41 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Josh Higham <jhigham@******.STUDENT.CWRU.EDU>
Subject: Re: SR I question
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970711095618.007b3150@***.iquest.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 11 Jul 1997, Jaymz wrote:

> How do you tell if a book is the first printing?
>
> The game store here has a used copy of SR I and claims it to be first
> printing and there doesn't seem to be any kind of print code in it.
>
> How do you tell?

Usually look on the inside of the cover or first page, where they have
the copyright and printing info, there will be a list of printings:

First printing 1988
Second printing 1991
etc (those aren't the real numbers)

*-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-*
Josh Higham jxh25@**.cwru.edu
11904 Carlton Rd. 410A http://129.22.241.146/~jhigham/
Cleveland OH 44106 Anon ftp available at the same site
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 18:19:05 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks
In-Reply-To: <199707111452.IAA16529@******> from "David Buehrer" at Jul
11,
97 08:52:28 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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|Arc 2, my god I had forgotten all about that show. The early to
|mid-seventies had the best saturday morning cartoons ever! (If you
|were in the US)

What were the Cartoons? I might remember them....

(Of course, we had THE best Saturday morning show, ever. It's still not been
beaten... And that was..... TISWAS...)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 19:21:03 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: (Skill+Att)/2
In-Reply-To: <199707111153.NAA17297@****.Germany.EU.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Mike Hartmann said on 13:54/11 Jul 97...

> What about giving out bonus-dice for high attributes or
> targetnumber-reductions (like with healing or recoil-comp)?

You mean for example a character who has Quickness 6 getting an extra
die for Unarmed Combat skill tests? This could be done, I guess, and it
would certainly be better than adding and Attribute to a skill and
dividing by 2.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 19:21:03 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: SR I question
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970711095618.007b3150@***.iquest.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Jaymz said on 9:56/11 Jul 97...

> How do you tell if a book is the first printing?
>
> The game store here has a used copy of SR I and claims it to be first
> printing and there doesn't seem to be any kind of print code in it.
>
> How do you tell?

My SR1 book has something like "Corrected fifth printing" somewhere near
the copyright warning inside, so I guess that's a way to tell.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 19:21:03 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: NPC/Location Database Ideas
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970711143624.00de36ac@****.interware.it>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Paolo Marcucci said on 17:38/11 Jul 97...

> * Matrix 2.0 host generator (get the perl source and convert :)

What? Are you saying my proggy isn't good enough?! :)

[snip]
> I'm asking too much? :)

If Fro is to program this, then I think you are :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
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------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 19:21:03 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: URGENT - Harlequin help needed
In-Reply-To: <199707111526.LAA04649@***.ncweb.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Steven A. Tinner said on 11:32/11 Jul 97...

> What are the aspects of the targets life that the player of Chal'han must
> demonstrate mastery over?
> All I can remember are Loves and Hates.
>
> I have forgotten, and loaned out my book, but I need to know before 2 pm
> EST today!

Not sure if it's on time, but they are: Physical, Hates, Past, Loves,
Spiritual, Future, and Present. At least, those are the names of the
chapters in the book.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
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------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 19:21:03 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Storytelling
In-Reply-To: <199707111343.HAA13652@******>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

David Buehrer said on 7:43/11 Jul 97...

> I just did pretty much the same thing, and it went great. I also
> learned another nice trick, (as the GM) you don't need to role dice
> to decide the outcome of a conflict between NPCs.

That's something I learned long ago, if only because it slows down combat
immensely if the PCs aren't involved in it. I still roll dice if, say, an
NPC on the players' team shoots an enemy NPC, but for fights in which the
players aren't involved I don't roll much, or even at all. Just one or two
dice throws (more if I need to make the players think I'm rolling for it
normally), or none at all.

I even did this for a fight between a PC and a mantis spirit. We'd
stopped the last session just before the fight, and went on there. In the
meantime I'd decided the PC would get killed if we handled this as a
straight BTB fight, so we turned to a more cinematic style; no initiative
rolls, mostly descriptions of actions and what was going on, plus the
occasional attack test for either side. Hey, I wanted the PC to survive
(guess that doesn't make me much of an evil GM, does it? :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
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------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 18:21:41 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: URGENT - Harlequin help needed
In-Reply-To: <199707111526.LAA04649@***.ncweb.com> from "Steven A.
Tinner" at
Jul 11, 97 11:32:33 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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|
|Anyone who has the original Harlequin module I need HELP!

You....I've got it.....

|What are the aspects of the targets life that the player of Chal'han must
|demonstrate mastery over?
|All I can remember are Loves and Hates.

Past, Present, Future and.....(Well.... Counterstroke doesn't really
count...) is that it? Errr.....
ACK!

Probably too late anyway.... It's 6:20 here....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 18:23:09 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: URGENT - Harlequin help needed
In-Reply-To: <199707111554.IAA07751@****tod-102.bryant.webtv.net> from "...
..." at Jul 11, 97 05:54:24 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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|
|Spoiler?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|Just wanna make sure nobody who doesn't wanna know knows, ya know?
|Physical, Loves, Hates, Past, Present, Spiritual and Future.

SPIRITUAL!!! That the one....
(I knew I'd forgotten one....)

Ooops... Forgot spoilers in mine, but then, It's hardly make a
difference....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:23:53 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Fetish & Exclusive Spells (suggestions)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
> Date: Friday, July 11, 1997 12:33 PM

> Spike wrote:

> | I did skip a little, but the point still stands.
> | Geasa should NOT give bonuses for ANY reason, ever......

> For involuntary Geasa sure. But what if the magician voluntarily
> takes a Geasa?

A geas isn't something that is chosen. Not consciously, anyway. A geas is
something the magician needs to perform in order to make his magic as
effective as it once was. A geas is a crutch. Without using a geas, you
start walking the path of the burned out mage. No mage in his right mind
wants any geasa. However, when you lose enough magic (for whatever
reason), your grasp on it starts slipping. You need to then find out what
you need to do to keep hold of the magic you wield. You do this by
discovering your geas. I don't believe the character chooses to what geas
he has. I believe that's a player's choice, but to the character, he
suddenly realizes that his magic isn't working and has to figure out what
else is needed to make it work.

> -David

Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 18:24:21 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Fetish & Exclusive Spells (suggestions)
In-Reply-To: <199707111633.KAA21778@******> from "David Buehrer" at Jul
11,
97 10:33:54 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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|
|Spike wrote:
||
|| I did skip a little, but the point still stands.
|| Geasa should NOT give bonuses for ANY reason, ever......
|
|For involuntary Geasa sure. But what if the magician voluntarily
|takes a Geasa?

The point is, why would he want to?
(If it was for initiation, then that's then price he paid.....)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:30:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Dwarven Opera Singer (Was - Re: SLARP v1.2)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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> From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
> Date: Friday, July 11, 1997 10:48 AM

> Justin Pinnow wrote:

> | Any good ideas for that entymologist? My player is bugging me for his
> | contacts, and I have them all done, except for that one. Don't worry
about
> | time. I'm in no rush...just want a nice juicy contact for him. :)

> Entymologist... bugging... juicy. You are twisted :) (or maybe it's
> me)

Heh. I didn't even catch that. I'm so punny. ;)

> I let my players create their own contacts (with approval from me).

If only they all had that much motivation. ;) I create the actual
contacts, but they create their history with them. Thus, they decide how
they met, etc.

> -David

Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:33:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Thanks! (Was - Re: URGENT - Harlequin help needed)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Thanks to everyone who replied so rapidly.
That's exactly what I needed!

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"Uh-oh! Chongo!"
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 18:32:01 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dwarven Opera Singer (Was - Re: SLARP v1.2)
In-Reply-To: <199707111730.NAA22856@****.provide.net> from "Justin
Pinnow" at
Jul 11, 97 01:30:01 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

The game's not over 'till the fat dwarf sings.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:40:26 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: Centering Vs Penalties (was Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals)

On Friday, July 11, 1997 07:04, Gurth[SMTP:gurth@******.NL] wrote:
> Caric said on 13:24/10 Jul 97...
>
> > Hmmm...well Mike I would probably say that the target the spell is
centered
> > on id=s the target number I would use. The peanties will be accross
the
> > board anyway, but the main target of the spell is that one person after
> > all.
>
> If you think about this a bit more, it's possible to cast a spell
centered
> on a point in space, not on any specific person. Also, some targets in
the
> area of effect may have different penalties (when one is in a cloud of
> smoke while the rest aren't, for example).

I have never allowed combat spells to be cast at "a point in space." They
must be targeting something, even an area-effect one. If you want a "point
is space" blast, use a damaging manipulation.

--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:38:22 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: NPC/Location Database Ideas
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
> Date: Friday, July 11, 1997 6:30 AM

<Snippage>

> This is the area I would like feedback on -- what do you commonly record
> when you write down an NPC's stats? Is there something that you think is
> important that other character sheets/programs forget?
> And, of course, anything else funky you can think of :]

Here's what I have on my 3 x 5 index cards:

Bod Rea
Qui Mag
Str Ess
Cha B.I.
Int P.R.
Wil T.R.
Init.

I then have a column of skills and skill ratings and a section for
edges/flaws and cyberwear. I have their archetype and name at the top of
the card. This is all on the front. On the back, I have all the details
about the NPC: their physical stats, family members, lifestyle, etc. I
also have a Contact section to list their contacs (Friends of Friends and
all that) and a Gear section.

That's all I have on each NPC.....although, in all honesty, I haven't
actually used any of them yet....may campaign is starting in about a week
and a half. :)

> -Adam

Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:46:12 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MENARD Steve <smenard@****.COM>
Subject: Re: URGENT - Harlequin help needed
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I also think there is past, present and future, by I'm not sure.

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: URGENT - Harlequin help needed
Author: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET> at INTERNET
Date: 7/11/97 11:32 AM

Anyone who has the original Harlequin module I need HELP!

What are the aspects of the targets life that the player of Chal'han must
demonstrate mastery over?
All I can remember are Loves and Hates.

I have forgotten, and loaned out my book, but I need to know before 2 pm
EST today!

Thanks!

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"Uh-oh! Chongo!"
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:48:25 -0400
Reply-To: shergold@***********.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Shergold <shergold@***********.NET>
Subject: Re: Babylon 5 Drift (OT, possible B5 spoilers)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Spike wrote:

<stuff snipped>

> THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!!!!
>
> IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!
>
> I TOLD EVERYONE I DID *NOT* WANT TO SEE *ANY*... **ANY** SPOILERS FOR
> BABYLON 5!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> git

Poor Baby. But As I recall others on this were curious about what other
people saw. I did put a warning about spoilers, as did most of the other
people writing about this. If you don't want to see spoilers, don't read
the post.

SilverFire

"I merely chewed in self-defense."

-Draco the Dragon
"Dragonheart"
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 14:56:26 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: SR I question
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 07:21 PM 7/11/97 +0100, Gurth wrote these timeless words:
>Jaymz said on 9:56/11 Jul 97...
>
>> How do you tell if a book is the first printing?
>>
>> The game store here has a used copy of SR I and claims it to be first
>> printing and there doesn't seem to be any kind of print code in it.
>>
>> How do you tell?
>
>My SR1 book has something like "Corrected fifth printing" somewhere near
>the copyright warning inside, so I guess that's a way to tell.
>
My recently acquired hardback 1st Edition (in mint condition...:)) says:

SHADOWRUN and MATRIX
are trademarks of teh FASA Corporation
Copyright (c) 1989 FASA Corporation. ALl Rights Reserved
Printed in the United States of America.

I believe that the 2nd editions have a later Copyright date and say 2nd
printung (or third, or fifth) and note that they have been corrected.
Also, all the first prnts were hardbacks...;]

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:16:46 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: SR I question
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970711140821.2f6f34ce@*****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 14:56 7/11/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>> How do you tell?
>>
>>My SR1 book has something like "Corrected fifth printing" somewhere near
>>the copyright warning inside, so I guess that's a way to tell.
>>
>My recently acquired hardback 1st Edition (in mint condition...:)) says:
>
>SHADOWRUN and MATRIX
>are trademarks of teh FASA Corporation
>Copyright (c) 1989 FASA Corporation. ALl Rights Reserved
>Printed in the United States of America.

And mine tacks on a 'Corrected Second Printing' after that.
I believe the maps in the back cover were upside down in the first
printing, check for that :)

-Aj
--
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
"Can I have a cup of angst to go with my un-happy meal?" -- Hi & Lois
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:40:24 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: NPC/Location Database Ideas
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970711143624.00de36ac@****.interware.it>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 17:38 7/11/97 +0200, you wrote:
>
>* Matrix 2.0 host generator (get the perl source and convert :)

Gurth wrote one, so no point re-inventing the wheel..

>* Run notes

Hrm.. Okey.

>* Linkable to external programs (a configurable button bar to call, for
>example, the skillsoft converter)

Simple enough.

>* Source code :)

Pft. Like anyone could figure out what the hell all the gibberish code I
write is. I don't understand it half the time :)

>* A kind of campaign diary, full searchable and with report funct... what?
>I'm asking too much? :)

Hrm.. wouldn't be all that hard, so Gurth, you can like, quit trying to
rain on this parade, ok? :)

*Goes off to ponder an easter egg in the program..with Gurths name in
flashing colours..*:)

-Adam

--
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
"Can I have a cup of angst to go with my un-happy meal?" -- Hi & Lois
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 15:48:27 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Josh Higham <jhigham@******.STUDENT.CWRU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Babylon 5 Drift (OT, possible B5 spoilers)
Comments: To: Shergold <shergold@***********.NET>
In-Reply-To: <199707111750.NAA22672@*****.frontiernet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 11 Jul 1997, Shergold wrote:

> Spike wrote:
>
> <stuff snipped>
>
> > THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!!!!
> >
> > IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> > I TOLD EVERYONE I DID *NOT* WANT TO SEE *ANY*... **ANY** SPOILERS FOR
> > BABYLON 5!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> > git
>
> Poor Baby. But As I recall others on this were curious about what other
> people saw. I did put a warning about spoilers, as did most of the other
> people writing about this. If you don't want to see spoilers, don't read
> the post.

Yes he is a poor baby. I know I'd sure be pissed if someone just told me
what was going to happen. This letter was in response to one that told
about the end of year finale, *without* spoiler warnings.

I have seen a fair number of potential spoilers not marked, with a later
letter saying "oh shoot, I forgot." If you are going to post something
remotely spoilish, please remember warnings.

(Draco, the portion of this that is directed at you is in responce to
your [belittling?] him for being pissed, without checking what he was
replying to - I know that you and several people did include warnings...)

*-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-*
Josh Higham jxh25@**.cwru.edu
11904 Carlton Rd. 410A http://129.22.241.146/~jhigham/
Cleveland OH 44106 Anon ftp available at the same site
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:50:55 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: (Skill+Att)/2
In-Reply-To: <199707111822.MAA27228@******> from "Gurth" at Jul 11,
97 07:21:03 pm
Content-Type: text

Gurth wrote:
|
| Mike Hartmann said on 13:54/11 Jul 97...
|
| > What about giving out bonus-dice for high attributes or
| > targetnumber-reductions (like with healing or recoil-comp)?
|
| You mean for example a character who has Quickness 6 getting an extra
| die for Unarmed Combat skill tests? This could be done, I guess, and it
| would certainly be better than adding and Attribute to a skill and
| dividing by 2.

Now you've done it. You've gone and resurrected a "new rule" idea of
mine. You could have let it die, but nooooooo. ;)

Hmm. And if you don't have a related skill all you would get would
be the bonus dice, if any (instead of tracing through the skill
web) with, say, a +1 modifier to the TN.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 15:53:54 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Back to spoiler spaces,
but don;t even *THINK* about strating a flame war! (was Re:
Babylon 5 Drift (OT, possible B5 spoilers)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:48 PM 7/11/97 -0400, Shergold wrote these timeless words:

>Poor Baby. But As I recall others on this were curious about what other
>people saw. I did put a warning about spoilers, as did most of the other
>people writing about this. If you don't want to see spoilers, don't read
>the post.
>

Ok Sliver, before this goes any further, and Spike goes off on you,
remember that Spolier *SPACES* are in the FAQ. If you haven't read it, ask
Fro for it and memorize it.

Spikes Mailer is like mine. It automatically opens the next message in teh
queue, so when you put a spoiler on the top line of your post, well... He
sees it. period. Doesn;t matter if he doesn'tr want to read it or not.
it's there. Putting "(Possible spoilers)" in the subject line does drek
for us, cause we don;t see the subject line till we've seen the post.

I really don;t give a crap if a couple of you out ther don;t like putting
in Spoiler spaces. I'm on a dozen different mailing lists, and browse some
of teh newsgroups, and it's basic netiquette on EVERY one of those lists to
put in a spoiler space.

Now, Topcat and a few others, we've heard your opinion. that's nice. But
you've been outvoted by the listmembers AND the tguys in charge of this
list, so don;t start yet another flame war. it's old. We've seen it. get
over it.

And silver? You really don;t want to start pissing off poeple like Spike.
A) he *IS* the official list.member.grumpy for a reason, and B) He's well
liked by the list.

Get over yourself.

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:59:41 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Fetish & Exclusive Spells (suggestions)
In-Reply-To: <199707111807.MAA26578@******> from "Justin Pinnow" at Jul
11,
97 01:23:53 pm
Content-Type: text

Justin Pinnow wrote:
|
| > | I did skip a little, but the point still stands.
| > | Geasa should NOT give bonuses for ANY reason, ever......
|
| > For involuntary Geasa sure. But what if the magician voluntarily
| > takes a Geasa?
|
| A geas isn't something that is chosen. Not consciously, anyway. A geas is
| something the magician needs to perform in order to make his magic as
| effective as it once was. A geas is a crutch. Without using a geas, you
| start walking the path of the burned out mage. No mage in his right mind
| wants any geasa. However, when you lose enough magic (for whatever
| reason), your grasp on it starts slipping. You need to then find out what
| you need to do to keep hold of the magic you wield. You do this by
| discovering your geas. I don't believe the character chooses to what geas
| he has. I believe that's a player's choice, but to the character, he
| suddenly realizes that his magic isn't working and has to figure out what
| else is needed to make it work.

So let's say you're a magician and your friend (also a magician) is
telling you about how he got screwed up and now he has to chant in
tongues to cast his spells with the same power as before. So you
start thinking, would chanting make your spells easier to cast? With
you're friend's help you spend a little time to design a spell that
needs a chant. And lo and behold if that sucker isn't easier to
cast.

At least that's what I *think* Steve was talking about. Taking
"geasa" on a spell-by-spell basis.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 14:03:00 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Storytelling
In-Reply-To: <199707111755.LAA26053@******> from "Gurth" at Jul 11,
97 07:21:03 pm
Content-Type: text

Gurth wrote:
|
| Hey, I wanted the PC to survive
| (guess that doesn't make me much of an evil GM, does it? :)

It depends on what you had planned for him afterwards. If during a
later session he said, "I should have let the Mantis Queen eat me."
then you're an Evil GM :)

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 14:07:01 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks
In-Reply-To: <199707111823.MAA27285@******> from "Spike" at Jul 11,
97 06:19:05 pm
Content-Type: text

Spike wrote:
|
| |Arc 2, my god I had forgotten all about that show. The early to
| |mid-seventies had the best saturday morning cartoons ever! (If you
| |were in the US)
|
| What were the Cartoons? I might remember them....

Basically every one that's been mentioned so far. Plus, the original
Scooby Doo, Captain Caveman, Bullwinkle... And then the Smurfs came
along and it went downhill from their. Only recently have cartoons
made a comeback with Reboot, Alladin, Superman, Batman, Darkwing
Duck, and others.

Anyway, I think this thread has gone over the 48 hour limit :)

| (Of course, we had THE best Saturday morning show, ever. It's still not been
| beaten... And that was..... TISWAS...)

Real quick, and then I'm done :) WTF is TISWAS?

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 21:13:04 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks
In-Reply-To: <199707112007.OAA02114@******> from "David Buehrer" at Jul
11,
97 02:07:01 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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|| (Of course, we had THE best Saturday morning show, ever. It's still not been
|| beaten... And that was..... TISWAS...)
|
|Real quick, and then I'm done :) WTF is TISWAS?

I don't have time to answer now.... Got to run, but I'll let some of the
other Brits tell you of the delights that were the "Phantom Flan Flinger",
and Lenny Henry doing some very silly impressions.....

Overall.... a VERY silly program....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 16:16:12 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Fetish & Exclusive Spells (suggestions)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
> Date: Friday, July 11, 1997 3:59 PM

> So let's say you're a magician and your friend (also a magician) is
> telling you about how he got screwed up and now he has to chant in
> tongues to cast his spells with the same power as before. So you
> start thinking, would chanting make your spells easier to cast? With
> you're friend's help you spend a little time to design a spell that
> needs a chant. And lo and behold if that sucker isn't easier to
> cast.

Well, the geas wouldn't make the spell easier to cast. A geas doesn't
really give you any advantages, it merely makes up for that loss of magic
rating. If you have a magic rating of 6, it's not going to get any easier.
Just like crutches don't make you walk any easier if your leg isn't
broken.

<Snip>

> -David

Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 21:36:15 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mARCiN sERkIES <yasiu@******.COM>
Subject: i have BBB
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hey... i`m back from my short trip with four books.... SR 2nd edition of
course, Street Samurai Catalog, Seattle Sourcebook and scenario that i`ve
heard that is not bad - Bottled Demon...

I`ve just flipped SR and i can`t find one thing - prices of normal
grenades. I`ve found damage codes for them but price is only for flash ones...

yASIu...
e-maIL [yasiu@******.com]
rEAL nAME???? wHAt iS rEAl nAME???
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:41:32 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mARCiN sERkIES <yasiu@******.COM>
Subject: how to
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

How to convert damage codes from 1st edition to second???

yASIu...
e-maIL [yasiu@******.com]
rEAL nAME???? wHAt iS rEAl nAME???
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 16:56:05 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@*****.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks
In-Reply-To: <199707112007.OAA02114@******>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

On 11 Jul 97 at 14:07, David Buehrer wrote:

> Basically every one that's been mentioned so far. Plus, the original
> Scooby Doo, Captain Caveman, Bullwinkle... And then the Smurfs came
> along and it went downhill from their. Only recently have cartoons
> made a comeback with Reboot, Alladin, Superman, Batman, Darkwing
> Duck, and others.

David, please, how can you forget THE TICK?

For god's sake man....

SPOON!

--
=DREKHEAD========================================================
drekhead@***.net --- http://users.aol.com/drekhead/home.html ---
=================================================================
=================================================================
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot
stomping on a human face...forever. -George Orwell
=================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 15:46:42 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: 2XS/Dirk Montgomery ['Vulnerability' of characters]
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

>> DON'T EVEN GO THERE, Nightlife. Just because Geraint and his friends had
>>more money than you're comfortable with, didn't make them any less
>>'vulnerable'. When they got shot or beaten, they hurt just like many other
>>characters. And, unlike many 'hardcore' Shadowrunners, they still had
>>conscience enough to be horrified by certain 'circumstances' they
>>encountered, as opposed to the 'average' well, it IS the cynical, 6th World,
>>and I don't give a DAMN about anyone but myself', mentality.

Aww sound like I bashed somebody's favorite SR book.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

In their final year, all Game Master students are required to take one semester
of Manical Laughter.

Spoof of the Far Side.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 23:02:14 +0000
Reply-To: shadowrn@********.ITRIBE.NET
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <goll1@********.hab-weimar.de>
From: Raven <florian.goll@******.UNI-WEIMAR.DE>
Subject: Re: how to
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970711224132.00720e14@******.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

yASIu asked:

> How to convert damage codes from 1st edition to second???

Add the numbers together, so 4M2 becomes 6M and so on. Grenades are
<skipping through FoF> Offensive 30, Dfensive 30, Concussion 30,
Smoke 30, Flash 40, Mini x2 listed price
--Raven

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCC/MC/SS>$ d-(?) s:+>: !a>? C++(+)@ LSX P L+ E+ W++ N o? K-
w+ O M+ V PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5+ X+++ R* tv+(++) b+++ DI? D+
G(++) e>++++ h--(---) !r z?
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 15:05:14 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Loseke <mike@******.VERINET.COM>
Subject: Re: how to
In-Reply-To: <199707112057.WAA18836@******.scc.uni-weimar.de> from
"Raven" at
May 11, 97 11:02:14 pm
Content-Type: text

Quoth Raven:
>
> yASIu asked:
>
> > How to convert damage codes from 1st edition to second???
>
> Add the numbers together, so 4M2 becomes 6M and so on. Grenades are

Cool, is this the listed formula, or does it just work out that way?
I've never seen a formula for the conversion, but this sounds dead
on right.

--
|
Mike Loseke | You never know how fluffy poodles are,
mike@*******.com | until you step in one.
|
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 23:12:32 +0000
Reply-To: shadowrn@********.ITRIBE.NET
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <goll1@********.hab-weimar.de>
From: Raven <florian.goll@******.UNI-WEIMAR.DE>
Subject: Re: how to
In-Reply-To: <199707112105.PAA15656@******.verinet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Mike had an idea
> > yASIu asked:
> >
> > > How to convert damage codes from 1st edition to second???
> >
> > Add the numbers together, so 4M2 becomes 6M and so on. Grenades are
>
> Cool, is this the listed formula, or does it just work out that way?
> I've never seen a formula for the conversion, but this sounds dead
> on right.

I read it somewhere, don't know where, but I think its in the BBB
somwhere.
--Raven

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCC/MC/SS>$ d-(?) s:+>: !a>? C++(+)@ LSX P L+ E+ W++ N o? K-
w+ O M+ V PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5+ X+++ R* tv+(++) b+++ DI? D+
G(++) e>++++ h--(---) !r z?
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 14:39:34 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: david lowe <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: More Elvis jokes (was Re: an idea...)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Thanks to all of you, I dredged up my Elvis adventure and ran it on my new
group. The highlight of the evening was when they found their third dead
Elvis and one of the characters quipped to the body "Looks like it's a bad
night to be Elvis."

D.

David R. Lowe (dlowe@****.com)
Photography/Graphic Design

"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby."
-Daffy Duck
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 14:45:07 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: david lowe <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Spawn (Getting OT) (was: Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 8:56 AM 7/11/97, Drekhead wrote:

>
>David, please, how can you forget THE TICK?
>

An animated version of Spawn is now on HBO. It's somewhat ok, I think HBO
is trying a little too hard to be hip. BTW, has anyone seen the trailer for
the live action Spawn, coming out in Aug? It looks like it may be pure eye
candy, but wow! The trailer got my attention, even at my jaded age.

D.

David R. Lowe (dlowe@****.com)
Photography/Graphic Design

"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby."
-Daffy Duck
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 15:35:49 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: how to convert damage codes
In-Reply-To: <199707112105.PAA15656@******.verinet.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 15:05 7/11/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Quoth Raven:
>>
>> yASIu asked:
>>
>> > How to convert damage codes from 1st edition to second???
>>
>> Add the numbers together, so 4M2 becomes 6M and so on. Grenades are
>
> Cool, is this the listed formula, or does it just work out that way?
>I've never seen a formula for the conversion, but this sounds dead
>on right.

Its right in the back of Big Black, with all the other conversion
guidelines.. my copy is downstairs.. one moment please. *Elevator Music*

*puff* *pant*
I'm working too hard. Bottom of page 283, under 'Updating Adventures'

--
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
"Can I have a cup of angst to go with my un-happy meal?" -- Hi & Lois
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 19:32:23 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Centering Skills
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 10 Jul 1997 22:56:27 -0700"
<19970711055627.26258.rocketmail@*****.rocketmail.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

> However, a mage once initiated is now somehow able to use his
> centering skill (gesturing, incantation, musical instrument, dance,
> and so on) in a free action to augment a magic skill that takes a full
> complex action unto itself.
I thought it was pretty clear that Centering was a speficic case and that
'Complex Action for a skill use' applied when nothing else described the type
of action required (Firearms usually requires only a Simple Action,
f'rinstance).

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 19:43:53 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Magical Magic
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:36:05 -0500 (EST)"
<409C8E2F49@**.opp.psu.edu>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

You wrote:
> Frankly, the only way to remove the resistance roll AND still have a
> high body count for something is to switch to a hit points system.
> HARSH. Realize that a high bosy rarely does anything for you in SR
> unless you have armor too, in which case survival does become a
> possibility.
This all depends on what sort of lead is flying, and how much Karma you have
available to spend on rerolls sometimes. But it is true that without armor it
is difficult to resist damage.

> If you want to increase the lethality of damage....play it harder.
> Make Armor less common, and have Lone Star and others crack down on
> it. Have the enemies start making called shots. ETc.
My point was not really to increase lethality, rather to find another way to
represent damage which did not pit Body attribute against damage as if they are
equal contenders (as I don't see them as equivalents).

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 19:48:28 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Storytelling
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Fri, 11 Jul 1997 07:43:03 -0600"
<199707111343.HAA13652@******>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

You wrote:
> All of this went quickly, and made a hell of an impression on the
> PCs. But would you believe that one of them decided to take on the
> troll anyway? At that point I pulled out the dice and proceeded to
> wail on the PC (somehow she still lived through it <GM sigh>).
Well, how foolish this was depends on specifics. How important was it for her
to take out said Troll? More importantly, Pain Editor or no, I would expect
someone who has lost an arm to keel over in a minute or two from blood loss if
nothing else, the Pain editor doesn't stop blood loss... And his performance,
regardless of the Pain Editor should suffer (loss of balance and the like, not
to mention the blood gushing out of his arm).

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 18:50:18 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Digital Mage <kajohnson@*******.TEC.WI.US>
Subject: The Digital Mage does America
In-Reply-To: <199707112003.OAA01915@******>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hello there people!!!!!!!! 'Tis the Digital Mage returned (though only very
briefly) and I'm actually in the US!!!!!

I hear that a 3rd edition Shadowrun is on the horizon, well I would
obviously like to see the grounding issue put to rest either way, and if it
disagrees with my wonderful article ('The Divide' at my archived web site)
then I'll just sulk :)

Apart from that I don't think much is broke. The only thing is in magic
elemental effects - I think for Damaging Manipulations the secondary
effects test should not be dependent on object resistance. As far as I am
aware the spell actually creates the element before applying it to the
target, therefore the test should be based upon GM discretion with only a
set of guidelines given.

E.g. for fire roll 2D6 apply 2nd effects if result greater than or equal to:
Open Gasoline: 2
Gasoline in sealed container: 5
etc

For water:
Computer or other exposed electrical equipment: 2
Sealed electrical equipment (e.g. cyberdeck in improved casing): 5
etc

By the way you have Gossamer to thank for allowing me the time to say hi,
so appreciation is due there!

AS for me well I've been in the states since 7/7/97, NYC and Chicago ( teh
lovely CZ :) have been visited and hopefully I'll make GenCon if I can
afford it and find room!

Till then fare thee well fine people!!!

The Digital Mage aka Grant Erswell
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 21:28:41 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Spoilers and Slamming listmembers (used to be B5 spoilers)

On Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:48:25 -0400 Shergold <shergold@***********.net>
writes:

<<Poor Baby. But As I recall others on this were curious about what other
people saw. I did put a warning about spoilers, as did most of the other
people writing about this. If you don't want to see spoilers, don't read
the post.>>

Umm, it's not that easy. We had this discussion just before you got here.
Putting a warning in the subject line doesn't work. Too many people's
mailer simply brings up the next message (mine, for instance, moves right
on to the next one down once I hit the delete key), rather than leaving
you with all messages unselected. Yeah, I can go through and delete every
message that says 'spoiler' in the subject, but this is the only list I'm
on that generates a noticeable amount of mail. Some may not have the
luxuries of time or patience to do that before reading their mail. For
all I know, some people's mailers may not allow them to do that at all.
So, for convenience, please put in the spoiler space when you're going to
discuss something with spoilers. Don't remove it when you're quoting
somebody's message, unless the only part of the message you're going to
leave in your reply has no spoilers AND your reply is spoiler-free
itself. And I don't care if they're not spoilers for you. If there's even
the possibility, it's better to put in the spoiler space than to leave it
out. Better safe than sorry, and all that. And here's another hint: don't
slam listmembers who've been here longer than you, 'cause there's a good
chance that you'll wind up insulting someone who is a) respected by the
list at large and/or b) quite capable of giving back what they
several-fold. And one more reason not to slam other listmembers: it makes
you look like a prick and doesn't win friends.

--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 21:28:41 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: The Digital Mage does America

On Fri, 11 Jul 1997 18:50:18 -0500 The Digital Mage
<kajohnson@*******.TEC.WI.US> writes:

<<Hello there people!!!!!!!! 'Tis the Digital Mage returned (though only
very briefly) and I'm actually in the US!!!!!>>

Kewl:) Got anything good to say about this wonderful country?

<<I hear that a 3rd edition Shadowrun is on the horizon, well I would
obviously like to see the grounding issue put to rest either way, and if
it disagrees with my wonderful article ('The Divide' at my archived web
site) then I'll just sulk :)>>

<<Apart from that I don't think much is broke. The only thing is in magic
elemental effects - I think for Damaging Manipulations the secondary
effects test should not be dependent on object resistance. As far as I am
aware the spell actually creates the element before applying it to the
target, therefore the test should be based upon GM discretion with only a
set of guidelines given.>>
<tables snipped>

Sounds like a pretty good idea to me. Mention of Damaging Manipulations
reminds me: the Grimmy says they've got to have Elemental effects
(actually, it just says that they 'always' have them, even so...), and
gives an explanation that is only a little more complicated than 'just
because' :) What I'm wondering is the exact reasoning behind this (other
than game balance). I would just like a basic reasoning behind why it is
that, btb, you cannot create a mana-based DM. Or one that is simply
physical.

<<By the way you have Gossamer to thank for allowing me the time to say
hi, so appreciation is due there!>>

Thanks Gossamer! <big thumbs-up to Gossamer>

<<AS for me well I've been in the states since 7/7/97, NYC and Chicago (
teh lovely CZ :) have been visited and hopefully I'll make GenCon if I
can afford it and find room!>>

Yet another reason I would love to go to GenCon, I would love to be able
to meet some of you people:) But, alas, not this year (neither enough
cash, nor enough time, nor enough transportation :(

<<Till then fare thee well fine people!!!>>

Good luck, hope to be seeing you back on the list soon.

--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 21:48:20 -0400
Reply-To: shergold@***********.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Shergold <shergold@***********.NET>
Subject: Apology (was about B5 spoilers)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

About the Babylon 5 spoilers and anyone's delicate sensiblitlies that I
have offended I apologize. I was merely responding to someone's post, I had
put a spoiler header in before I downspaced (I did read the FAQ BTW ). Any
subsequent postings after mine, people didn't include my spoiler warning. I
was somewhat irritated at the time of my last message and what I said came
out with a bit more venom than intended.

<Scene of SilverFire withdrawing with hat in hand>

SilverFire

"I merely chewed in self-defense."

-Draco the Dragon
"Dragonheart"
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 20:19:33 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Re: [OT] Sid and Marty Krofft (was Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> Hey, how can I know how bad the series is without seeing it?
> (OK, so, I quite liked the film.....)

Don't sweat it..We all used to watch this stuff..

> I like most of the old Irwin Allen series as well, like Lost in Space and

I can't wait for this movie to come out..

--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 20:19:33 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Re: [OT] Sid and Marty Krofft (was Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

>love the Butthole Surfers version of "Underdog"

Don't even get me started on this dog..Now don't get me wrong..I used
to love that stupid show..But It was a terrible influence..as was
another fav of mine Super Chicken...
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 20:19:34 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> Arc 2, my god I had forgotten all about that show.

I always loved their vehicle ala Damnation alley..

>The early to
> mid-seventies had the best saturday morning cartoons ever!

Well..I wouldn't necessaarily go that far... ;)
Did anyone mention Lancalot Link ?? I used to like all those Chimps..

--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:29:15 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Dan Coffin <b1gator@********.COM>
Subject: Music for Shadowrun
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I was listening to some of my CDs and remarking how some of the tunes would
be appropriate for background use in Shadowrun games. Anyone else use music
with their games?

Some of the songs I thought of:

"Zoo Station", U2, Achtung Baby
"Tryin' To Throw Your Arms Around The World", U2, Achtung Baby
"Acrobat", U2, Achtung Baby
"Numb", U2, Zooropa
"Lemon", U2, Zooropa
"One Minute Warning", Passengers, Passengers: Original Soundtracks 1 (this
was featured on "Ghost in the Shell")
"Miss Sarajevo", Passengers, Passengers: Original Soundtracks 1

I haven't finished my list yet. Any other suggestions?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:57:43 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Digital Mage does America
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Fri, 11 Jul 1997 21:28:41 -0400 (EDT)"
<19970711.212749.20199.1.lobo1@****.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

You wrote:
> Sounds like a pretty good idea to me. Mention of Damaging Manipulations
> reminds me: the Grimmy says they've got to have Elemental effects
> (actually, it just says that they 'always' have them, even so...), and
> gives an explanation that is only a little more complicated than 'just
> because' :) What I'm wondering is the exact reasoning behind this (other
> than game balance). I would just like a basic reasoning behind why it is
> that, btb, you cannot create a mana-based DM. Or one that is simply
> physical.
Because manipulations don't damage things/people through their aura directly,
that is the exclusive domain (the definition, in fact) of Combat Spells. A
damaging manipulation causes damage not to the target, but by making something
which damages the target (a blast of fire, ice, sand, air, electricity,
whatever). It works through a medium.

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 00:10:54 -0400
Reply-To: shergold@***********.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Shergold <shergold@***********.NET>
Subject: Re: Music for Shadowrun
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> I was listening to some of my CDs and remarking how some of the tunes
would
> be appropriate for background use in Shadowrun games. Anyone else use
music
> with their games?
>
> Some of the songs I thought of:
>
> "Zoo Station", U2, Achtung Baby
> "Tryin' To Throw Your Arms Around The World", U2, Achtung Baby
> "Acrobat", U2, Achtung Baby
> "Numb", U2, Zooropa
> "Lemon", U2, Zooropa
> "One Minute Warning", Passengers, Passengers: Original Soundtracks 1
(this
> was featured on "Ghost in the Shell")
> "Miss Sarajevo", Passengers, Passengers: Original Soundtracks 1
>
> I haven't finished my list yet. Any other suggestions?

It might sound cheesy, but some of the songs from Billy Idol's
Cyberpunk are kinda apropriate <sp?>.

SilverFire

"I merely chewed in self-defense."

-Draco the Dragon
"Dragonheart"
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 00:14:39 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ben Frech <frech@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Music for Shadowrun
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dan Coffin wrote:
>
> I was listening to some of my CDs and remarking how some of the tunes would
> be appropriate for background use in Shadowrun games. Anyone else use music
> with their games?
>
> Some of the songs I thought of:
>
> <snip>
> I haven't finished my list yet. Any other suggestions?

"Pentagram", Cake, Motorcade of Generosity
good for scenes involving ritual sacrifice.
"The Distance", Cake, ?
Good song for a rigger chase scene.
"Strength Beyond Strength", Pantera, Far Beyond Driven
Good song for club or combat background music
"Devil Man", White Zombie, AstroCreep 2000
This entire album us good club/combat background music
"Spoon Man", Sound Garden, SuperUnknown
great if you have a fight scene involving spoons. :)

There are a few others I have rolling around in my head, but can't
remember the names of... one or two by Bad Religion, and another one
by Pantera...

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Frech, A.K.A. Grill the shaman-who-hasn't-been-greeted-by-Bull :)
http://www.realtime.net/~frech/
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:17:25 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Centering vs Penalties (was Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Gurth wrote:

[snip]
> grade -- i.e. if you're a Grade 0 initiate casting Power Bolt at a
> troll
> with Body 10 and you're suffering from a Moderate wound, the Centering
> TN
> is 12.

Hrm? I thought minusing grade was first ed, not second ed? (At least
that is what my old (woot!) GM told me.) And if it is in second ed,
where???

--

Dvixen Code-word : Weevil-chuck. dvixen@********.com
"This is the type of conversation that can only end in a gunshot."
First High Priest of the Church of the Squooshy Ball.
Been there, done that, got the tshirt, wore it out. Now what do I wear?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:52:26 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: Re: 2XS/Dirk Montgomery ['Vulnerability' of characters]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

NightLife wrote:

> Aww sound like I bashed somebody's favorite SR book.

You know, Nightlife, it's looking more and more like you need a break
from the list. You are taking every oppourtunity to slam whoever you
feel like. (Myself included.)

I took my break, now it's your turn, kiddo. Come back after you loose
the holier than thou attitude.

--

Dvixen Code-word : Weevil-chuck. dvixen@********.com
"And I thought First Ones were rare." - Ivanova - Babylon 5
First High Priest of the Church of the Squooshy Ball.
Been there, done that, got the tshirt, wore it out. Now what do I wear?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 01:21:50 -0700
Reply-To: prinzing@********.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Zarcon <prinzing@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Music for Shadowrun
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

----------
> From: Ben Frech <frech@***.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Music for Shadowrun
> Date: Saturday, July 12, 1997 12:14 AM
>
> Dan Coffin wrote:
> >
> > I was listening to some of my CDs and remarking how some of the tunes
would
> > be appropriate for background use in Shadowrun games. Anyone else use
music
> > with their games?

anything from the
Mortal Kombat soundtrack or More Kombat
and basicly any techno out there (Prodigy)

Zarcon
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:40:46 +0000
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From: David Hinkley <dhinkley@***.ORG>
Subject: [SR3] Firearms System
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There are several things in the Shadowrun 2ed firearms
system that should be examined, revised or tweaked as a
part of the 3rd edition rewrite. For the most part they would
not greatly change the play of the game but they would
eliminate confusion and the need for local changes (and
Shadowrn debates).

1) When describing firearms, provide separate designations
for damage, size, concealment and range table, rather then
the present hold-out, light and heavy pistol system. The
current system does not reflect the reality that the same
cartridge does about the same damage regardless of the
weapon it is fired from. That is a 44 Special inflicts about
the same damage where it is fired from a derringer (1 1/2
inch barrel), a large frame revolver (6 inch barrel) or a lever
action rifle (16+ inch barrel), however the effective range,
apparent recoil and the overall accuracy would vary greatly.
This type of disparity extends to weapons of the same class
and caliber. The MAC-10 and the U.S. Army's M1928A1
(Thompson) are a good example of this these submachine
guns fire the same cartridge, yet the range and accuracy
and apparent recoil vary greatly. The current system does
the current system acknowledge the fact that the same
cartridge can be used in several different types of weapons.
For example all of the following types of weapons are
currently available chambered for the 9mm Para cartridge,
hold-out (American Derringer Model 1), Pistol (Luger),
Machine Pistol (Mauser 1932 Schnellfeur), Submachine
Gun (HK MP-5) and sport rifle (Marlin 9mm Camp rifle). Nor
does it acknowledge that the same weapon design can be
chambered for a variety of cartridges, the Glock series
(9mm, 45 ACP), or Colts Gold Cup/ Government model
(9mm, 38 cal, and 45 ACP) for example.

My solution would be to assign damage codes to a
cartridge rather then the weapon. For example a code
would be assigned to the 10mm pistol cartridge, that
damage would be used with all weapons using 10mm
ammunition regardless of type. Range tables on the other
hand would be assigned to particular weapons, taking
chambering in to account (the performance of a particular
weapon design does vary depending on chambering). A
recoil rating would be assigned for each weapon rather then
by class. My suggestion is to create five classes (recoilless,
light, normal, heavy, and very heavy) and assign a
classification to each weapon. To determine the TN modifier
the rating would be cross-referenced with the PC's body
and strength on a table. While this would add a step during
character creation or when a PC gets a new weapon. It
does not require any changes be made in the existing
ranged combat system. It will not otherwise effect
complicate the play of the game yet it will provide a greater
degree of realism, provide for yet another difference
between PCs and would make for greater variation between
weapons.

2) The range tables need to be completely revised. The
present system gives the maximum range of a light
machine gun as 150 meters, the working range (i.e. rule of
thumb) that I was taught in the U.S. Army was 1000 meters
on a bipod and between 1200-1500 on a tripod. The ranges
for sniper and sporting rifles HMGs and MMGs are also
way out of whack. While they are being revised add an
additional range band or two beyond extreme, especially
for weapons chambered for rifle type cartridges. By doing
this sighting systems would become effective in a realistic
manner.

3. Ammunition weights are not at all realistic. The current
weights are inaccurate in three ways. First, they are too
heavy. Second there is no differentiation between the
weight of pistol and rifle ammunition. Lastly, within the
accuracy of weights used in SR II, there should be no
difference in weight between normal ball and any of the
special ammunition types. At the minimum a different
weight should be assigned to each general type (i.e. Pistol,
Assault Rifle, Rifle etc.) it would be better to assign a
weight to each cartridge type (i.e. 10mm, 5.56mm, .38 cal
etc.).

4. Provide new weapons that use caseless ammunition
rather then the conversion provided in Fields of Fire. I can
not conceive a weapons maker who would attempt to
convert a conventional cartridge weapon to caseless. The
would design a all new weapon that fills the same niche.
Oh, they may extensively rework an existing design, but the
result would effectively be a new weapon. The AR-10 to
AR-15 (XM-16) or the M-1 to M-14 are examples of
reworked or adapted weapons designs. Besides most 'blow
back' actions would not function at all without the case.

5. Replace the term 'flechette' as used in regards to the
Ares Viper with another term. The present usage creates
great confusion with existing multi-projectile flechette
ammunition for shotguns, grenade launchers and artillery
pieces. My suggestion is either use needler or sliver gun for
weapons using elongated projectiles of small diameter.

6. Delineate what weapons accessories can be used with
what. For example, can a telescopic sight be used with a
Smart Link System, getting the TN modifier for both? (I
don't think so) Can gas-vent systems be fitted on a mini-
gun (yes) a shotgun (also yes). Can a silencer be fitted on
a Shotgun (no) or mini-gun also (no).

7. Reevaluate the concealment ratings and weight data
provided for each weapon type. On weapons with folding or
telescoping stocks provide concealment ratings for both.
Clearly indicate whether weights given are for loaded or
unloaded weapons. Provide a modifier based on the size
and build of the PC to some detection rolls used with the
concealment rating. A 7 foot, 350 troll can conceal things
on this body that would be impossible on a 5.5 foot 125 lb
female human.

8. Provide dimensions for all the weapons. While for the
most part it would have little effect on the game. It would
provide GMs with a quick source of answers to the "can I
hide this weapon in this location" type question.

David Hinkley
dhinkley@***.org

====================================================
Those who are too intelligent to engage in politics
are punished by being governed by those who are not
--Plato
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:40:46 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <dhinkley@********.efn.org>
From: David Hinkley <dhinkley@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: SHADOWRUN, 3rd EDITION!
Comments: To: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
In-Reply-To: <970702190739_914000667@*******.mail.aol.com>
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> Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 19:07:42 -0400
> From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
> Subject: SHADOWRUN, 3rd EDITION!

> Everyone should have heard by now the Shadowrun Card Game will be the big SR
> release of GEN-CON this year. What you may not of heard is the big GEN-CON
> release of NEXT year: SHADOWRUN, 3rd EDITION!

[SNIP]

> So... now you know why I need to know what people think needs to be fixed in
> the Shadowrun magic system, since it will be my main contribution to the new
> edition. If there are any other Shadowrun rules you think are broken, post
> them, and I will compile the information for when the time comes to make some
> decisions on the 3rd ed. rules. Only one caveat: this is a new edition, not a
> new game. The game rules will be cleaned up and clarified, broken rules will
> be fixed, but the game will remain Shadowrun. So, please, no suggestions
> about fixtures of the Shadowrun world, just the rules of the Shadowrun game.

It is about time that the rules for Shadowrun revised in
another edition. Enough new rules type material has been
printed in a variety of supplements and adventure modules
(many of which are now out of print) to make a new edition
defensible. In addition to specific rules changes that I will
discuss in other postings, there are several things that
FASA should keep in mind while doing this project.

1) Like the second edition, the new edition should include
an appendix with conversions for all the source books not
incorporated into the new rules.

2) The specialty rules contained in any source books
published between now and the 3rd edition should be
compatible with the new edition.

3) It should be well indexed. And if several other related
'basic' books (Grimore, Rigger Book, gear catalog or para-
normal animal book) are to be released at the same time or
soon after the new rules their index should be included
within the main index. This would make the entire rules set
easier to use. If for production reasons this is not possible
then include in each source book an index that includes the
basic rules and other 'basic' source books that have already
been printed.

4) It should include an appendix that summarizes the
changes between the systems.

5) Conversion recommendations for converting 2ed
characters to 3rd edition need to be included.

6.) Remember that not all Shadowrun gamers are lucky
enough to own or have access to the full set of Shadowrun
books. And that there was a lot of important materials
contained in the description and text of many of these out
of print books (i.e. Shadowtech, Shadowbeat) that is not
contained in the tables provided in books like Fields of Fire.
This information needs to become available. It might be
advisable to produce revised editions of these and other
similar out of books for those that do not have them and
put the changes in the conversion appendix. But if you do
this don't change the title or the contents. I hate being
forced into the purchase of a book for just a couple of
pages of new material!

David Hinkley
dhinkley@***.org

====================================================
Those who are too intelligent to engage in politics
are punished by being governed by those who are not
--Plato
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 01:59:43 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Black Death <ddmaster@**.NET>
Subject: What is BBB??
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What is BBB??

Somebody please tell me.

--
Heaven or Hell it does not matter for I am the soul taker and you are
next on my list.
Black Death
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 02:15:59 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Black Death <ddmaster@**.NET>
Subject: Guaranteed Conception
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This spell IMHO will be used more by people who are trying to save the
endangered species of the world. Which would explain why it was created
and provably what it was originally designed for (IMHO).

(AFTER THOUGHT)

What ever happened to Green Peace in 205* ??
--
Heaven or Hell it does not matter for I am the soul taker and you are
next on my list.
Black Death
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 04:39:54 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Target: UCAS and Bug Stuff
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

SPOILERS FOR TARGET UCAS!!! (Nothing about Granite, Fro, or Spikey
though...:))

@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@

Ok, that's good...

Ok, I Just got the book tonight, and as I was playing SR, I didn;t get a
chance to really read through it, so this is just a couple quick comments...

Interesting way to clean up Bug City... They used a cultured Beta Version
of Strain III FAB, which destroyed the bugs, the ghouls, and pretty much
anything else magical in the zone. And it's still there, so Chicago's
pretty F'd up.

One interesting note... It was Strongley hinted at that some bugs survuved
the Strain III, and were made stronger for it, though no real hard rules
for this were given.

One interesting (and really cool) concepts was that in the process of
killing the Queens with the FAB, some of the Insect Spirits went free...
i.e., subject to all the rules for Free Spirits, though they'r still a Bug
at heart!

Wow, that is just truly hideous and foul... And gives me some GREAT ideas
for adapting some of the older bug modules (I'm currently running Queen
Euphoria, and plan to use some of United Brotherhood in the future...:))

My quotes were cool, though I only had 2, and for some reason I'm southern
and from New Orleans... But I can live with that...;] It was still cool
to be in the book... And they were kinda long quotes...:]:]

That's about it. Looks like a good book over all... I look forward to
reading the rest of it...;];]

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 04:10:02 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Black Death <ddmaster@**.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Firearms System
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David Hinkley wrote:
This might be considered as a SPIOLER so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
*
*
*
*v
*
**v
*
*
*
**
*v
*
*
*
*
> 1) When describing firearms, provide separate designations
> for damage, size, concealment and range table, rather then
> the present hold-out, light and heavy pistol system. The
> current system does not reflect the reality that the same
> cartridge does about the same damage regardless of the
> weapon it is fired from. That is a 44 Special inflicts about
> the same damage where it is fired from a derringer (1 1/2
> inch barrel), a large frame revolver (6 inch barrel) or a lever
> action rifle (16+ inch barrel), however the effective range,
> apparent recoil and the overall accuracy would vary greatly.
> This type of disparity extends to weapons of the same class
> and caliber. The MAC-10 and the U.S. Army's M1928A1
> (Thompson) are a good example of this these submachine
> guns fire the same cartridge, yet the range and accuracy
> and apparent recoil vary greatly. The current system does
> the current system acknowledge the fact that the same
> cartridge can be used in several different types of weapons.
> For example all of the following types of weapons are
> currently available chambered for the 9mm Para cartridge,
> hold-out (American Derringer Model 1), Pistol (Luger),
> Machine Pistol (Mauser 1932 Schnellfeur), Submachine
> Gun (HK MP-5) and sport rifle (Marlin 9mm Camp rifle). Nor
> does it acknowledge that the same weapon design can be
> chambered for a variety of cartridges, the Glock series
> (9mm, 45 ACP), or Colts Gold Cup/ Government model
> (9mm, 38 cal, and 45 ACP) for example.

>
> 2) The range tables need to be completely revised. The
> present system gives the maximum range of a light
> machine gun as 150 meters, the working range (i.e. rule of
> thumb) that I was taught in the U.S. Army was 1000 meters
> on a bipod and between 1200-1500 on a tripod. The ranges
> for sniper and sporting rifles HMGs and MMGs are also
> way out of whack. While they are being revised add an
> additional range band or two beyond extreme, especially
> for weapons chambered for rifle type cartridges. By doing
> this sighting systems would become effective in a realistic
> manner.
>

--
Heaven or Hell it does not matter for I am the soul taker and you are
next on my list.
Black Death
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 04:26:32 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Black Death <ddmaster@**.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Firearms System
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David Hinkley wrote:

< snip >
> 1) When describing firearms, provide separate designations
> for damage, size, concealment and range table, rather then
> the present hold-out, light and heavy pistol system. The
> current system does not reflect the reality that the same
> cartridge does about the same damage regardless of the
> weapon it is fired from. That is a 44 Special inflicts about
> the same damage where it is fired from a derringer (1 1/2
> inch barrel), a large frame revolver (6 inch barrel) or a lever
> action rifle (16+ inch barrel), however the effective range,
> apparent recoil and the overall accuracy would vary greatly.
> This type of disparity extends to weapons of the same class
> and caliber. The MAC-10 and the U.S. Army's M1928A1
> (Thompson) are a good example of this these submachine
> guns fire the same cartridge, yet the range and accuracy
> and apparent recoil vary greatly. The current system does
> the current system acknowledge the fact that the same
> cartridge can be used in several different types of weapons.
> For example all of the following types of weapons are
> currently available chambered for the 9mm Para cartridge,
> hold-out (American Derringer Model 1), Pistol (Luger),
> Machine Pistol (Mauser 1932 Schnellfeur), Submachine
> Gun (HK MP-5) and sport rifle (Marlin 9mm Camp rifle). Nor
> does it acknowledge that the same weapon design can be
> chambered for a variety of cartridges, the Glock series
> (9mm, 45 ACP), or Colts Gold Cup/ Government model
> (9mm, 38 cal, and 45 ACP) for example.

I have a Camp 9 pretty decent if you can find clips for it that hold
more than four shots. Right now I have a 10 shot clip in mine and
looking
for some more to go with it.

>
> 2) The range tables need to be completely revised. The
> present system gives the maximum range of a light
> machine gun as 150 meters, the working range (i.e. rule of
> thumb) that I was taught in the U.S. Army was 1000 meters
> on a bipod and between 1200-1500 on a tripod. The ranges
> for sniper and sporting rifles HMGs and MMGs are also
> way out of whack. While they are being revised add an
> additional range band or two beyond extreme, especially
> for weapons chambered for rifle type cartridges. By doing
> this sighting systems would become effective in a realistic
> manner.
< snip >

I had a .357mag/.38special rifle. with scope. When I tried to hit a up
at about 250yrds with the .38spl, I had to aim about 1-2ft above the
cup.
When I tried it with the .357mag I only had to aim about .25-.75ft above
it.
(PS:: this is guess-ta-mating)

So your ammo does have some effect on your range.

BTW:: .357mag and .38spl are the same size, just one has more powder in
the casing.

--
Heaven or Hell it does not matter for I am the soul taker and you are
next on my list.
Black Death
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 04:28:46 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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Subject: Re: [SR3] Firearms System
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David Hinkley wrote:
< BIG SNIP >
PS:: I agree that it does need to be revized.
--
Heaven or Hell it does not matter for I am the soul taker and you are
next on my list.
Black Death
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:38:42 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Centering vs Penalties (was Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals)
In-Reply-To: <33C71365.E90A06DF@********.com>
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Dvixen said on 22:17/11 Jul 97...

> > grade -- i.e. if you're a Grade 0 initiate casting Power Bolt at a
> > troll
> > with Body 10 and you're suffering from a Moderate wound, the Centering
> > TN
> > is 12.
>
> Hrm? I thought minusing grade was first ed, not second ed? (At least
> that is what my old (woot!) GM told me.) And if it is in second ed,
> where???

The Grimoire page 44: "Use the same target number for this Centering Test
as for the Magic Success Test, using all the penalties applicable to but
subtracting the magician's grade from the modified target number."
When centering for extra spells successes or against drain, this modifier
isn't mentioned, but for centering against penalties it's clearly in the
book.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:38:43 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Storytelling
In-Reply-To: <199707112003.OAA01915@******>
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David Buehrer said on 14:03/11 Jul 97...

> | Hey, I wanted the PC to survive
> | (guess that doesn't make me much of an evil GM, does it? :)
>
> It depends on what you had planned for him afterwards. If during a
> later session he said, "I should have let the Mantis Queen eat me."
> then you're an Evil GM :)

He is in hospital now debating whether (if?) Lone Star (his employer) will
pay for a full cyberleg or only for some kind of clonal replacement... Not
to mention how he's going to pay for the hospital treatment, but since
he's got a job at a security firm I'll most likely assume he's got
insurance and only charge him a little bit. Which should raise some
eyebrows among the other players...

*remembers player in question is on this list* I think I'll make him wish
the mantis spirit killed him :) <EGMG>

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:38:43 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: how to
In-Reply-To: <199707112105.PAA15656@******.verinet.com>
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Mike Loseke said on 15:05/11 Jul 97...

> > Add the numbers together, so 4M2 becomes 6M and so on. Grenades are
>
> Cool, is this the listed formula, or does it just work out that way?
> I've never seen a formula for the conversion, but this sounds dead
> on right.

Check your SRII, page 283 under Updating Adventures. It doesn't work out
100% for all weapons (shotguns, for example, since their original 3M3-5M3
damage codes got changed to 8S-10S in SRII), but on the whole it's very
workable.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:38:43 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: NPC/Location Database Ideas
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Adam J said on 13:40/11 Jul 97...

> >* A kind of campaign diary, full searchable and with report funct... what?
> >I'm asking too much? :)
>
> Hrm.. wouldn't be all that hard, so Gurth, you can like, quit trying to
> rain on this parade, ok? :)

I have this feeling I'll be giving you a lot of help on how to put in
various features anyway... :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:38:43 +0100
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: how to
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mARCiN sERkIES said on 22:41/11 Jul 97...

> How to convert damage codes from 1st edition to second???

It says somewhere in the Sourcebook Updates chapter in the back of SRII.
The simplest way is to add the Staging (the last number) to the Power
Level (the first number) to find the new Power Level. For example, 7M5
would become 12M. If oyu have a first edition Street Samurai Catalog, you
can find the SRII damage codes for all weapons in the Sourcebook Updates
as well.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:38:42 +0100
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: [SR3] Fetish & Exclusive Spells (suggestions)
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Spike said on 18:24/11 Jul 97...

> |For involuntary Geasa sure. But what if the magician voluntarily
> |takes a Geasa?
>
> The point is, why would he want to?
> (If it was for initiation, then that's then price he paid.....)

Physads can take a geasa on their powers; since they don't have to take
any when the lose Magic points (they lose powers instead) these are either
voluntary or subconscious geasa.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:38:42 +0100
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: i have BBB
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mARCiN sERkIES said on 21:36/11 Jul 97...

> Hey... i`m back from my short trip with four books.... SR 2nd edition of
> course, Street Samurai Catalog, Seattle Sourcebook and scenario that i`ve
> heard that is not bad - Bottled Demon...

Bottled Demon isn't too bad, but it isn't all that great either. On the
whole I'd rate it as very average... (My favorite SR adventure is Elven
Fire, IMHO a lot better than Bottled Demon.)

> I`ve just flipped SR and i can`t find one thing - prices of normal
> grenades. I`ve found damage codes for them but price is only for flash ones...

Look at the bottom of page 256. There are two sets of equipment tables in
the book -- the one you were probably looking at (starting at page 278) is
the Street Samurai Catalog update; it has nearly all the gear of the SSC,
but with SRII stats, for those -- like me -- who own a first edition copy.
The actual SRII equipment table starts on page 254.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:38:42 +0100
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Centering Vs Penalties (was Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals)
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Jonathan Hurley said on 13:40/11 Jul 97...

> I have never allowed combat spells to be cast at "a point in space." They
> must be targeting something, even an area-effect one. If you want a "point
> is space" blast, use a damaging manipulation.

That is irrelevant to this thread, isn't it? A DM can have penalties to
the TN that can be Centered against, just like any other spell,
area-effect or not.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:38:43 +0100
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Subject: Re: (Skill+Att)/2
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David Buehrer said on 13:50/11 Jul 97...

> | You mean for example a character who has Quickness 6 getting an extra
> | die for Unarmed Combat skill tests? This could be done, I guess, and it
> | would certainly be better than adding and Attribute to a skill and
> | dividing by 2.
>
> Now you've done it. You've gone and resurrected a "new rule" idea of
> mine. You could have let it die, but nooooooo. ;)

Now I'm even thinking on the same wavelength as David. I must be getting
senile... :)

> Hmm. And if you don't have a related skill all you would get would
> be the bonus dice, if any (instead of tracing through the skill
> web) with, say, a +1 modifier to the TN.

The only problem here is how do you attempt tasks for which you don't have
the skill _and_ the related Attribute isn't high enough to give bonus
dice? Unless of course you want to keep the skill web, but it looks to me
like the whole point of trying to incorporate Attributes into skill tests
is to do away with that.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:22:12 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Heavy pistol damage
In-Reply-To: <01IL0AUDH1OO9I4PAP@******.acs.muohio.edu>
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In message <01IL0AUDH1OO9I4PAP@******.acs.muohio.edu>, "Bruce H. Nagel"
<NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU> writes
>You wrote:
>> Yeah, but since in SR anyone can pick up and use a heavy pistol, I don't
>> figure them as being _too_ powerful. My wife didn't like 9mm, but was
>> able to shoot it and .45 without difficulty: she had real trouble with
>> .357 and heavier rounds.
>I've had char's who refused to pack heavies (or even any firearm at all)
>because their player didn't figure they could handle shooting much. But not
>everyone is gifted with such characters. Ever ask a STR3 PC how they handle
>the kick from their Ares Predator? Do we *need* a rule to tell people 'hey,
>don't use this unless you have a STR of X.'? I didn't think so, but I may be
>outvoted in this. Some common sense is better than more rules.

Works fine for those who know their way around guns. I'm something of a
rarity in Britain, most people my age have never shot with a firearm:
and now you can rule out any real-world experience with handguns, which
have been banned her :(

If you've never done any pistol shooting, then on what can "common
sense" draw? In the movies, the world and his wife can rapid-fire a
Desert Eagle one-handed with no undue effort.

So, yeah, those who don't shoot need a little guidance on these matters.

>> Having fired a .44 Desert Eagle, I'd say it was neither readily
>> concealable, nor particularly well-suited to most shooters: at 6' 2" and
>> 160lb, I found it quite a handful.
>And where do you fall in the SR strength scale?

Call it a 4.

Remember the original Smith and Wesson .357 Magnum was marketed as only
suitable for the shooter of larger than average stature...

>> Wound ballistics is an extremely complex, and rather gruesome,
>> subject...
>Yeah, but some of us like that sort of thing in our games. Remember my
>fascination with good old-fashined gritty SR games in the cyberpunk flavor.

I know what you mean.

I like the feel of the SR system, because it works for how we like to
play our games: heavy pistols are dangerous even to armoured opponents,
SMGs and assault rifles are deadly but not _too_ deadly, and so on.

It's not realistic, but it's playable and it's readily adapted to the
cinematic, John Woo-style firefights we like (wish fulfilment and
fantasy, rather than gritty reality). I can see, though, why if you
wanted a down-and-dirty game you'd prefer something more realistic.

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:43:11 +0100
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From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: cyberware and it's effects on the psyche and body
In-Reply-To: <199707102004.WAA22616@******.scc.uni-weimar.de>
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In message <199707102004.WAA22616@******.scc.uni-weimar.de>, Raven
<florian.goll@******.UNI-WEIMAR.DE> writes
>Okay guys, who wants Cyberpsychosis in SR ;)

Deep in the murky waters, the mighty vessel stirs...

"Sonar, new target, designate as Sierra-31! Target is deploying a
hazardous discussion thread!"

"Sound Action Stations. Weapons, load tubes one and three. Helm, turn to
three three zero, bring us to periscope depth, ahead one-thirds."

"Helm, course now three three zero, sixty feet, twelve knots and
slowing."

"Weapons, we have Carpfish loaded in tubes one and three."

"Sonar, we have a shooting solution on Sierra-31. Confirm deployment of
a cyberpsychosis thread."

"Up scope. Confirm Sierra-31 on bearing three three zero. Range... mark.
My God... he'll ask about grounding next." The captain shudders. "We
have to stop him, _now_! Weapons, solution set?"

"Weapons: tubes one and three preset, Carpfish ready in all regards."

"Flood tubes one and three. Down scope. Five degrees down-angle on the
bow planes. Ahead two-thirds." A quiet cacophony of confirmation as the
orders are carried out.

"Weapons, tubes one and three flooded, shutters open."

"Sonar, the target is beginning evasive action."

"Too late. Match bearings... Fire one. Fire three!"

"Weapons, one and three running normally and completing forerun. Both
weapons have the target and are in acquisition."

"Time to impact?"

"Any time... _now_!"

TTTTTTTT HH HH W WW W AAAA PPPPP !!!
TTTTTTTT HH HH W WW W A A PP PP !!!
TT HHHHHHHH W WW W AA AA PP PP !!!
TT HHHHHHHH W WWWW W AAAAAA PPPPP !!!
TT HH HH WWW W W AA AA PP
TT HH HH WW WW AA AA PP !!!
TT HH HH WW WW AA AA PP !!!

"Sonar, I confirm a weapon impact on Sierra-31!"

TTTTTTTT HH HH W WW W AAAA PPPPP !!!
TTTTTTTT HH HH W WW W A A PP PP !!!
TT HHHHHHHH W WW W AA AA PP PP !!!
TT HHHHHHHH W WWWW W AAAAAA PPPPP !!!
TT HH HH WWW W W AA AA PP
TT HH HH WW WW AA AA PP !!!
TT HH HH WW WW AA AA PP !!!

"Sonar, I have two weapon impacts on the target."

"Weapons. Two solid hits, both Carpfish got him dead centre."

"Monitor and report. Let's see if we killed that thread in time...
Reload tubes one and three, just in case. Secure from Action
Stations..."

The leviathan resumes its patrol.

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 08:28:21 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Music for Shadowrun
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> "Pentagram", Cake, Motorcade of Generosity
> good for scenes involving ritual sacrifice.

Rock and Roll lifestyle by Cake is always good for any posers the group
runs into.

> "Spoon Man", Sound Garden, SuperUnknown
> great if you have a fight scene involving spoons. :)

And this happens so often too! ;-)

New tunes for my ever growing list -
Mirrorshades - Information Society
Sex Packets - Digital Underground
Humpty Dance - DU (For those goofy clubs!)
El Matador - Los Fabulosos Cadillacs (Actually, pretty much everything from
the Grosse Pointe Blank soundtrack is good!)
Blitzkreig Bop - The Ramones
Anything by ABBA - Again for club scenes

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"Uh-oh! Chongo!"
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 06:56:08 -0700
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From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Centering vs Penalties (was Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals)
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| > Hmmm...well Mike I would probably say that the target the spell is
centered
| > on id=s the target number I would use. The peanties will be accross
the
| > board anyway, but the main target of the spell is that one person after
| > all.
|
| If you think about this a bit more, it's possible to cast a spell
centered
| on a point in space, not on any specific person. Also, some targets in
the
| area of effect may have different penalties (when one is in a cloud of
| smoke while the rest aren't, for example).

Wouldn't there have to be something there with an aura? Even if it's just
a chair or a marble that the sammie tossed? Unless it's a DM I would say
that there has to be some targetmore precis then just "over there."

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 06:52:48 -0700
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Subject: Re: Centering vs Penalties (was Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals)
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<snip the irrelevent bits>

| > True, but for an area effect combat spell, there are multiple TNs
| > involved, one for each target. Which one is used?
|
| The trouble with this situation is that the spell has multiple TNs
(namely
| one for each target in range), while the Centering test should probably
| have only one. I'd do this by rolling the Centering test and comparing it
| to the TN for each target, then noting the successes rolled. The
penalties
| for each target are then reduced by one-half the successes against that
| target.

This forced me to ponder (no easy task at 6AM on a Saturday) the exact
functioning of area effect spells. If I understand correctly you toss the
spell at a target and if it grounds out from him it hits anyone else in the
area of effect, but only if you can see them. Yet if the spell doesn't
ground throught the original target then it doesn't go off. If you have to
target the auras of all the targets why wouldn't the spell try to hit them
all regardless, and if you have to just hit the one target why would you
have to see the other targets? Now if the caster does not need to see the
other targets (I just checked the BBB and didn't find anything that said
one way or the other, but I just read the little blurb about area of effect
spells in the "spells" section) then why would vision and other situational
modifiers ,other than cover, effect the target numbers to damage them?
This would make more sense to me, and then the centering question would be
a moot point.

If someone knows where AOF spells are explained in better detail, please
let me know.

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 07:09:25 -0700
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| Anyway, if Sasquatch are sentient their probably using the second
| type with some bizarre ass modifiers (could be based on time, mood,
| magical perceptions, etc), and linguists can't crack it because they
| don't know the controlling algorithm. Its theorized that the same
| problem would occur if whales were sentient. It's allready proven
| that whale song changes from season to season (but their not sure if
| its actually changing because of the season).

It probab;y just changes from "damn it's cold" to "damn it's hot." :)

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 07:13:35 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Fetish & Exclusive Spells (suggestions)
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| |Um, Spike? not to be rude....but I think you missed the beggining of
| |this thread where Steve Kenson was talking about MAKING geasa work
| |differently for SR3.
|
| I did skip a little, but the point still stands.
| Geasa should NOT give bonuses for ANY reason, ever......

I'm with Spike on this one...and BTW Spikey I picked up Target:UCAS
yesterday at Hexicon for a song. If you are nice I might be persuaded to
tell you what you said if you are still dying to find out.

Muahahahahaha!!!!!

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 07:04:39 -0700
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From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Spell List [Longish] (was Re: Mysticism)
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| <snip spell listing>
|
| You guys are REALLY sick, you know that!?!
| Loved Rejuvinate and Solar Flare, but LUGEE BLAST?!?!?
| EEEUUUUUUWWWW!!!!!!!!!
| I feel slimy just thinking about it!

One does ones best. ;)

| 'Egon, your mucus.'
| --Peter Venkman, Ghostbusters

I'll let Rookie know you like Lugee Blast I think he only got to cast it
once or twice...he's knid of odd that way though...It was a standing joke
for along time when I introduced him to anyone "...and this is Rookie, be
careful he spits..." which if you have seen Aladdin...ahhh forget it, if I
have to explaint the joke then well life's not worth living. :)

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 06:23:18 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,or Bring out
yourSpells,Bringout your spells!!!]
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| > Oh no I understood that...of course it is rude...I wouldn't put it
anywhere
| > near the act of rape as it is completely non-violent,
| Define violence as you will, but I generally define it as someone doing
what
| they want to with my body without my permission. This counts... It's
not
| putting someone to sleep to avoid killing them, it's an invasion of
privacy and
| humiliating.

So are control thoughts, emotions, and pretty much any other mind control
spell. I would certainly rather have an orgasm then have someone traipsing
through my mind ala Mind Probe.

| but of all the spells
| > you could cast on someone it's hardly the worst. Would you rather have
an
| > orgasm and get tired or burn to death as your head explodes?
|
| That really isn't the point. 'Would you rather be raped or murdered?'
isn't a
| fair choice, neither is something you should do to someone, eh? Some
people
| view sex pretty seriously, and this would be an extreme violation, doing
it to
| someone against their will (as opposed to voluntarily, which is an
original and
| interesting idea :) is the equivalent of taking control of their most
personal
| thoughts and desires. Not nice.

Actuall "would you rather be raped or mudered?" Has been answered by
several people I know with the later quite seriously. It's not making
anyone have sex with someone else as a controlling manipulation would, and
it in know way takes control of any thoughts or desires...I can't see it
being all that different from making someone wet their pants. It's a
bodily function and one that happens to feel good.

| To those who think I'm taking this too seriously, well, *shrug*

I really think that you are, this is SR that we are talking about and there
are going to be millions of things runners are going to do that will me not
so nice. An orgasm isn't even on the same scale as most of things i've
seen runners do...but to each his own I suppose.

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 16:51:49 +0000
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Comments: Authenticated sender is <casanova@***.passagen.se>
From: Stefan <casanova@***.PASSAGEN.SE>
Subject: Re: Music for Shadowrun
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> I was listening to some of my CDs and remarking how some of the tunes would
> be appropriate for background use in Shadowrun games. Anyone else use music
> with their games?
>
> Some of the songs I thought of:
>
> "Zoo Station", U2, Achtung Baby
> "Tryin' To Throw Your Arms Around The World", U2, Achtung Baby
> "Acrobat", U2, Achtung Baby
> "Numb", U2, Zooropa
> "Lemon", U2, Zooropa
> "One Minute Warning", Passengers, Passengers: Original Soundtracks 1 (this
> was featured on "Ghost in the Shell")
> "Miss Sarajevo", Passengers, Passengers: Original Soundtracks 1
>
> I haven't finished my list yet. Any other suggestions?

Well guess it all depends on what kinda music you like ... We usually
listen to alot of techy background music or if that failes we listen
to groups like"Sisters of Mercy" and "The Mission" ... That usually
gets everybody in a dark future mode.

/Stefan

-----------------------------------------------------
"Your blood will paint the way to the future."

- Gowron (ST:TNG / Redemption)
-----------------------------------------------------
E-MAiL ..................... casanova@***.passagen.se
HoMEPAGE ........... http://hem.passagen.se/casanova/
-----------------------------------------------------
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Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 15:54:59 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Centering vs Penalties (was Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals)
In-Reply-To: <199707121424.JAA13874@********.mcit.com> from "Caric" at
Jul 12,
97 06:56:08 am
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|Wouldn't there have to be something there with an aura? Even if it's just
|a chair or a marble that the sammie tossed? Unless it's a DM I would say
|that there has to be some targetmore precis then just "over there."

There's always SOMETHING....
How about a floor tile?
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 09:58:22 -0500
Reply-To: swordman@******.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Swordman <swordman@******.NET>
Subject: Re: SR I question
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Jaymz wrote:
> How do you tell if a book is the first printing?
Now are you talking first PRINTING or Publication.
For example, Shadowrun was copyrighted in 1989, but most of the SR books
that came out in October of that year were "Corrected Third Printing"
This can be found on the Credits page. (5th in the book).
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 15:57:03 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Fetish & Exclusive Spells (suggestions)
In-Reply-To: <199707121424.KAA05983@********.mcit.com> from "Caric" at
Jul 12,
97 07:13:35 am
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|I'm with Spike on this one...and BTW Spikey I picked up Target:UCAS
|yesterday at Hexicon for a song. If you are nice I might be persuaded to
|tell you what you said if you are still dying to find out.
|
|Muahahahahaha!!!!!

I've had one snippet already...

I'm slightly peeved that he decided to give me an american accent....

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 11:01:38 -0700
Reply-To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: Centering vs Penalties (was Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals)
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> This forced me to ponder (no easy task at 6AM on a Saturday) the exact
> functioning of area effect spells. If I understand correctly you toss the
> spell at a target and if it grounds out from him it hits anyone else in the
> area of effect, but only if you can see them. Yet if the spell doesn't
> ground throught the original target then it doesn't go off. If you have to
> target the auras of all the targets why wouldn't the spell try to hit them
> all regardless, and if you have to just hit the one target why would you
> have to see the other targets? Now if the caster does not need to see the
> other targets (I just checked the BBB and didn't find anything that said
> one way or the other, but I just read the little blurb about area of effect
> spells in the "spells" section) then why would vision and other situational
> modifiers ,other than cover, effect the target numbers to damage them?
> This would make more sense to me, and then the centering question would be
> a moot point.

I don't see much of a reason that visual modifiers should affect
spellcasting at all: the mage 'glances' into the Astral, where things
like smoke and glare don't exist, and locks the spell to the target. If
he can see it, he can it (and if he can see a part of it, he can hit it
just as well: it's all one aura.)

As far as area effect spells, I've never liked the explanation for them,
but it seems to me that it spreads in the Astral first, covering (x)
area, and then grounds, individually, through each aura (target) in the
area. Of course, I'm not big on the Astral having a 1:1 correspondence
with 'reality', but that's just me.

I /really/ disagree with the 'mirror as targeting scope' since it's an
image of the target, but not hte actual aura of the target. Equivalent
to seeing someone's picture on a computer monitor, though less tech
involved.

And yes, I disagree with the 'LOS through fiberop' thread begun with the
CorpSec Handbook, but that's mostly because I don't see being able to
see through a FO line without some assistance from electronics.

-Matt
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 07:16:45 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: SR I question
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| > How do you tell if a book is the first printing?
| >
| > The game store here has a used copy of SR I and claims it to be first
| > printing and there doesn't seem to be any kind of print code in it.
| >
| > How do you tell?
|
| My SR1 book has something like "Corrected fifth printing" somewhere near
| the copyright warning inside, so I guess that's a way to tell.

So the advantage of getting the first printing is that you get ALL the
mistakes right? :)

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 07:21:17 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Dwarven Opera Singer (Was - Re: SLARP v1.2)
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| > Entymologist... bugging... juicy. You are twisted :) (or maybe it's
| > me)
|
| Heh. I didn't even catch that. I'm so punny. ;)

The bug is the obvious choice...I would make the Entymologist a perfectly
normal scientist who just acts really buggy. Cries if there is a squashed
bug and such. :)

| > I let my players create their own contacts (with approval from me).
|
| If only they all had that much motivation. ;) I create the actual
| contacts, but they create their history with them. Thus, they decide how
| they met, etc.

Dangerous, very dangerous. Make 'em hang themselves eh? ;)

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 07:18:34 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Storytelling
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Gurth wrote:

| That's something I learned long ago, if only because it slows down combat
| immensely if the PCs aren't involved in it. I still roll dice if, say, an
| NPC on the players' team shoots an enemy NPC, but for fights in which the
| players aren't involved I don't roll much, or even at all. Just one or
two
| dice throws (more if I need to make the players think I'm rolling for it
| normally), or none at all.

| I even did this for a fight between a PC and a mantis spirit. We'd
| stopped the last session just before the fight, and went on there. In the
| meantime I'd decided the PC would get killed if we handled this as a
| straight BTB fight, so we turned to a more cinematic style; no initiative
| rolls, mostly descriptions of actions and what was going on, plus the
| occasional attack test for either side. Hey, I wanted the PC to survive
| (guess that doesn't make me much of an evil GM, does it? :)

I guess that depends on if you left him alive so that you could rip his arm
of with an elevator later or not.

<g>

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 10:16:01 -0500
Reply-To: swordman@******.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Swordman <swordman@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Music for Shadowrun
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Dan Coffin wrote:
>Anyone else use music with their games?
Just had all the PC go to Tir na nOg, The Cranberries,The Cheiftains,
and Enya seem to play in the background alot.
The Crow sound track usualy comes up in combat.
For dark and sinsiter clubs I like Faith No More's "Angel Dust" CD.
And ironicaly Queen, "Another one Bites The dust."... just listen to the
words for a second or two. And actualy I've found the "not-so-techno"
songs have a great effect. Black Sabath's "Iron Man", Bon Jovi's "Dead
or Alive" and "Blaze of Glory". "Cancion Del Mariachi" off the
Desperado
Sound Track often livens up the group. And don't rule out the clasics,
Beethoven's Piano Sonata No. 14 in C-sharp minor, and Symphony No. 9 in
D minor. The "Toccata and Fugue" seem to just show up, it's one of those
variable songs, and don't forget "Vesti La Giubba" for Those Mafia Don
Sceans.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:22:01 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: What is BBB??

On Sat, 12 Jul 1997 01:59:43 -0500 Black Death <ddmaster@**.NET> writes:
>What is BBB??
>
>Somebody please tell me.

BBB (in this context, anyway) means "Big Black Book", as in the SR2 core
rules manual.

--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 07:59:21 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks
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| > Basically every one that's been mentioned so far. Plus, the original
| > Scooby Doo, Captain Caveman, Bullwinkle... And then the Smurfs came
| > along and it went downhill from their. Only recently have cartoons
| > made a comeback with Reboot, Alladin, Superman, Batman, Darkwing
| > Duck, and others.
|
| David, please, how can you forget THE TICK?
|
| For god's sake man....
|
|
| SPOON!

I am anxiously awaiting the arrival of the "Little Wooden Boy" action
figure. :)

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 08:07:17 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Spawn (Getting OT) (was: Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks)
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David spewed:
| An animated version of Spawn is now on HBO. It's somewhat ok, I think HBO
| is trying a little too hard to be hip. BTW, has anyone seen the trailer
for
| the live action Spawn, coming out in Aug? It looks like it may be pure
eye
| candy, but wow! The trailer got my attention, even at my jaded age.

Yes I saw it at Batman & Robin I think...looks very well done effects wise.
I hope the story holds up.

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 08:16:20 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Music for Shadowrun
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| I was listening to some of my CDs and remarking how some of the tunes
would
| be appropriate for background use in Shadowrun games. Anyone else use
music
| with their games?
|
| Some of the songs I thought of:
|
| "Zoo Station", U2, Achtung Baby
| "Tryin' To Throw Your Arms Around The World", U2, Achtung Baby
| "Acrobat", U2, Achtung Baby
| "Numb", U2, Zooropa
| "Lemon", U2, Zooropa
| "One Minute Warning", Passengers, Passengers: Original Soundtracks 1
(this
| was featured on "Ghost in the Shell")
| "Miss Sarajevo", Passengers, Passengers: Original Soundtracks 1
|
| I haven't finished my list yet. Any other suggestions?

Queensryche...'nuff said.

:)

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 08:05:12 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: how to
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Raven wrote:
| > > > How to convert damage codes from 1st edition to second???
| > >
| > > Add the numbers together, so 4M2 becomes 6M and so on. Grenades are
| >
| > Cool, is this the listed formula, or does it just work out that way?
| > I've never seen a formula for the conversion, but this sounds dead
| > on right.
|
| I read it somewhere, don't know where, but I think its in the BBB
| somwhere.

Well <opening his brand new second edition soft cover that he got at
Hexicon for 9 bucks to replace his thrashed hardback> on page 283 of the
BBB it says "...add the first edition staging value to the power rating to
determine the second edition power rating. Note that this method is not
wholly acurate and gamemasters should be prepared to adjust the values when
needed."

So Raven we dead on, but I thought that last little bit was important.

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:29:25 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Fetish & Exclusive Spells (suggestions)

In a message dated 97-07-11 00:46:04 EDT, u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK (Spike)
writes:

>
> Errrr.....
>
> NO! Geasa are NOT like that! No-one should EVER gain a bonus of any kind
> from
> using a geas. (They get PENALTIES for NOT using them....)

WRONG!!! Check out the rules for creating Geasa for Physical Adepts. If an
Adept decides to limit how a power or his magic in general works, he gets a
+25% to his magic point total. These geasa are NOT things that can be
removed by initiation. Awakenings and Grimoire both have details on this. I
suggest you reread things. There ARE bonuses guy.

And as for specific bonuses during Conditions, check out the Druids, the
Elven Paths, the Wiccan, etcetera, etcetera...all that I have done is given
some suggestions for using those things to one's benefit.

>
> As for the power foci thing..... Eh?
> Power foci add to MAGIC and MAGIC POOL. They DO NOT lower drain codes....
> (Or are you talking about sacrificing force points from them? If so, it's
a
> bit expensive, innit?)

No Again, basically a given foci is being used as a "Talismanic Geasa" to a
particular spell. "I can't throw this spell without -THIS- particular
object, AT ALL." It may seem strange, but it can be done and can even be
done within the mechanics of the SR system. AND it can be done and maintain
the magical balance. Actually, it even helps to keep the balance.
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 08:13:31 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Storytelling
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| > All of this went quickly, and made a hell of an impression on the
| > PCs. But would you believe that one of them decided to take on the
| > troll anyway? At that point I pulled out the dice and proceeded to
| > wail on the PC (somehow she still lived through it <GM sigh>).
| Well, how foolish this was depends on specifics. How important was it
for her
| to take out said Troll? More importantly, Pain Editor or no, I would
expect
| someone who has lost an arm to keel over in a minute or two from blood
loss if
| nothing else, the Pain editor doesn't stop blood loss... And his
performance,
| regardless of the Pain Editor should suffer (loss of balance and the
like, not
| to mention the blood gushing out of his arm).

A minute or two in combat when you are full of who knows what drugs is an
eternity. I've seen footage of a guy who was being arrested by FBI I think
it was, who was fatally wounded with the first shot that hit him, but he
killed twelve agents before he finally went down. Later testing showed
absolutely no drugs in his system. As for the pain editor issue...if it is
physical damage he still suffers the modifier. He may not feel the pain,
but the fact that the arm is gone would still give him the wound modifier.

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:30:35 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Magical Magic

In a message dated 97-07-11 01:08:01 EDT, dbuehrer@****.ORG (David Buehrer)
writes:

>
> That's why we post ideas to the list, to have them shot down in flames :)
>
> (See the responses to my post on linking skills to attributes :):)
>
> I don't know about the rest of you, but I've learned an awful lot from
> being wrong.
>
>
Oh yeah, I've learned tons ... including how to still not to do it right from
time to time... (sigh)

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:33:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals
Comments: To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk

In a message dated 97-07-11 01:52:12 EDT, M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk (Mark
Steedman) writes:

<snipped suggestions for "taking your time spellcasting"
> >
> On this how many people have seen the 'gathering magic rules'?
> Shadowlore 1 i think if memory serves which give something like this
> though the method of achieving it is quite different.
>
> Mark

I haven't, but then I also haven't found/read the RN archives yet either...if
such exist...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 08:19:16 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Music for Shadowrun
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Grill responded:

| > I was listening to some of my CDs and remarking how some of the tunes
would
| > be appropriate for background use in Shadowrun games. Anyone else use
music
| > with their games?
| >
| > Some of the songs I thought of:
| >
| > <snip>
| > I haven't finished my list yet. Any other suggestions?
|
| "Pentagram", Cake, Motorcade of Generosity
| good for scenes involving ritual sacrifice.
| "The Distance", Cake, ?
| Good song for a rigger chase scene.
| "Strength Beyond Strength", Pantera, Far Beyond Driven
| Good song for club or combat background music
| "Devil Man", White Zombie, AstroCreep 2000
| This entire album us good club/combat background music
| "Spoon Man", Sound Garden, SuperUnknown
| great if you have a fight scene involving spoons. :)

?!?!?!?!?!? I like you already. <sound of spoons being sharpened>

| Ben Frech, A.K.A. Grill the shaman-who-hasn't-been-greeted-by-Bull :)

Caric-the-proud-to-see-another-shaman-using-the-patented-shaman/ork
decker-.sig-style

:)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 08:23:30 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Centering vs Penalties (was Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Dvixen responded:

| [snip]
| > grade -- i.e. if you're a Grade 0 initiate casting Power Bolt at a
| > troll
| > with Body 10 and you're suffering from a Moderate wound, the Centering
| > TN
| > is 12.
|
| Hrm? I thought minusing grade was first ed, not second ed? (At least
| that is what my old (woot!) GM told me.) And if it is in second ed,
| where???

Is this the same GM that you had less than a stellar opinion of?

grimthingy; p. 44; left column; second paragraph "Use the same target
number for this centering test as for the magic success test, using all the
penalties applicable but subtracting the magician's grade from the modified
target number."

Sorry D but you've been shafted. :)

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 16:35:37 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Fetish & Exclusive Spells (suggestions)
In-Reply-To: <970712112924_745183601@*******.mail.aol.com> from "J. Keith
Henry" at Jul 12, 97 11:29:25 am
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|
|In a message dated 97-07-11 00:46:04 EDT, u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK (Spike)
|writes:
|
|>
|> Errrr.....
|>
|> NO! Geasa are NOT like that! No-one should EVER gain a bonus of any kind
|> from
|> using a geas. (They get PENALTIES for NOT using them....)
|
|WRONG!!!

Nope. Not wrong! Thayt was taken totally out of context and you know it!

Since when have PAs been able to cast spells?
(This thread is about Geasa and SPELLCASTING!)

|No Again, basically a given foci is being used as a "Talismanic Geasa" to a
|particular spell. "I can't throw this spell without -THIS- particular
|object, AT ALL." It may seem strange, but it can be done and can even be
|done within the mechanics of the SR system. AND it can be done and maintain
|the magical balance. Actually, it even helps to keep the balance.

Yes, but this IS spellcasting, so no bonuses there then....
Only PENALTIES for NON-USE.

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:38:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Optional Metatypes, part 3: Sasquatch

In a message dated 97-07-11 02:20:14 EDT, ddmaster@**.NET (Black Death)
writes:

> I agree with Bull. I have always thought due to their vocal cords' make
> up that they were not able to speak any complicated languages.
>
> Take a look at dogs they can be taught single syllable words and their
> meaning. Yet they cannot speak our language.
>
> Am I to assume that now I'm wrong on this??
>
I don't think you're wrong, I just think they (FASA writers) are playing
games with us. And on the note of Sasquoi, what about that assistant to
Lofwyr? Her unmasked form that S. Verner saw was tall and furry, but I
couldn't tell from the descriptions if she was a Sasquoi or a Wendigo (and
yeah Lofwyr could work with Wendigo, he gives to the Ordo Maximus).
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:42:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Optional Metatypes, part 3: Sasquatch

In a message dated 97-07-11 02:51:29 EDT, slothman@*********.ORG (Max Rible)
writes:

>
> Actually, the Sasquatch Entertainer Contact in Sprawl Sites gives
> a prerecorded speech, IIRC. I figure that Sasquatches can speak
> just fine, but they just know that "Hoi, more beer here, chummer" is
> a sound that makes the bartender pour you a drink, and it might as well
> be some kind of complicated whistle-code. (If they can do "divebombing
> starfighter with overloaded fusion pack", they should be able to do
> human speech.)
>
>
Actually, that part is being said by an Interpreter/Translator I thought...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:50:36 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks

In a message dated 97-07-11 03:58:49 EDT, lobo1@****.COM (John E Pederson)
writes:

>
>
> Uh...I'm confused. What is a sleestak (for those of us who managed to
> miss whatever it is they appeared on/in:)?
>
>
>
Rather squattish reptilian humanoid with large eyes, based on the concept
that some dinosaurials did advance in the intelligence department...and DAMN
they were pretty intelligent...I have a vague memory of them coming from
another world even, setting up the Pylons (tall towers with lots of power) to
monitor and do different things..
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:52:30 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,or Bring out your Spells,Bring
out your spells

In a message dated 97-07-11 04:11:11 EDT, NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU
(Bruce H. Nagel) writes:

> > good).
> And I wasn't really talking about legality. I'd find it incredibly rude,
> almost on the level of rape. Just because it's magically created doesn't
> mean
> you're not responsible for your actions...
>
>
OOOHHH Big fight topic here at the home game. Responsible Magicians....that
sounds like a flame war or worse in the making...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 08:26:55 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: What is BBB??
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Black Death asked:

| What is BBB??

It stands for Big Black Book and refers to the Shadowrun (SR) second
edition rulebook. Also called "The Bible," or "That thing that keeps
falling apart <sputter>"

The latter is little used as it actually takes longer to type then
"Shadowrun Second Edition Rulebook."

=)

| Somebody please tell me.

I did!!!!!

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 08:45:12 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: cyberware and it's effects on the psyche and body
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<snip>

| "Weapons. Two solid hits, both Carpfish got him dead centre."
|
| "Monitor and report. Let's see if we killed that thread in time...
| Reload tubes one and three, just in case. Secure from Action
| Stations..."
|
| The leviathan resumes its patrol.

RFLOL...oh my I think i'm gonna cry LOL

Bravo Paul!!!!!! Very nice.

=)

-Caric

"Why is there no blue food!!!!"
-George Carlin
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 08:37:25 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Target: UCAS and Bug Stuff
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

| SPOILERS FOR TARGET UCAS!!! (Nothing about Granite, Fro, or Spikey
| though...:))
|
| @
| @
| @
| @
| @
| @
| @
| @
| @
| @
| @
| @
| @
| @
| @
| @
| @
| @
| @
| @
| @
| @
| @
| Wow, that is just truly hideous and foul... And gives me some GREAT
ideas
| for adapting some of the older bug modules (I'm currently running Queen
| Euphoria, and plan to use some of United Brotherhood in the future...:))

United Brotherhood!!!!! Not another cult. hehehe Sorry Bull, but I had
to go FOREVER without giving you any grief and it was starting to wear on
me. :)

| My quotes were cool, though I only had 2, and for some reason I'm
southern
| and from New Orleans... But I can live with that...;] It was still cool
| to be in the book... And they were kinda long quotes...:]:]

They were really long which is why I think Granite got more, his were
shorter. I liked the banter though...good banter. I think that you were
from New Orleans because Mike knows that you are a pirate at heart. :)

| That's about it. Looks like a good book over all... I look forward to
| reading the rest of it...;];]

Haven't quite got there myself yet either.

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 08:47:20 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Centering vs Penalties (was Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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| |Wouldn't there have to be something there with an aura? Even if it's
just
| |a chair or a marble that the sammie tossed? Unless it's a DM I would
say
| |that there has to be some targetmore precis then just "over there."
|
| There's always SOMETHING....
| How about a floor tile?

<Michael Palin>

Well a floor tile maybe, but not a point in space that's my point.

</Michael Palin>

-Caric

"Why is there no blue food!!!!"
-George Carlin
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 08:48:32 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Fetish & Exclusive Spells (suggestions)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

| |I'm with Spike on this one...and BTW Spikey I picked up Target:UCAS
| |yesterday at Hexicon for a song. If you are nice I might be persuaded
to
| |tell you what you said if you are still dying to find out.
| |
| |Muahahahahaha!!!!!
|
| I've had one snippet already...
|
| I'm slightly peeved that he decided to give me an american accent....

Ah well if you don't want to be in a book i'll take your spot next time.

<grumbling about gifthorses and mouths>

;)

-Caric

"Why is there no blue food!!!!"
-George Carlin
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:11:26 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Sid and Marty Krofft (was Re: T'skrang = Sleestaks)

In a message dated 97-07-11 05:14:32 EDT, Victor-Fisher@******.COM (Fisher,
Victor) writes:

>
> 'H.R. Puff-n-Stuf,
> Whose your friend when things get rough?
> H.R.Puff-n-Stuff
> Can only do a little, but he can do enough!'
>
> or, to make it worse...
>
> And now, introducing, that world famous band, after playing an EXTENDED
> tour of Bug...er, Chicago, THE BUGALOOS!!!
> .
> .
> .
> 'The Bugaloos!The Bugaloos!!
> We're in the air and everywhere!
> Flying high, flying free,
> Flying easy as a summer breeze
> Happy as a summer breeze <Dadada>
>
> Kohl, feeling REALLY old right about now.
> 'Where's my mag sight? WHERE's MATLOCK?!?'
>
> >

Getting out the BIG BUG GUNS!!! (Redneck Rampage Voice) "Ware ar them
dangburned piles of pozum squat...(shoot to kill, shoot to kill)...come here
boy, weel fix you right up...!!!!

Sorry, I just couldn't take anymore....I had a sudden surge of "Age-Induced
Insanity" after this part. I have Eidetic Memory...all this convo on past
kid shows started to really catch up to me...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 17:12:33 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Fetish & Exclusive Spells (suggestions)
In-Reply-To: <199707121600.MAA12146@********.mcit.com> from "Caric" at
Jul 12,
97 08:48:32 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

|Ah well if you don't want to be in a book i'll take your spot next time.

OH NO YOU DON'T!
It's MY spot! Mine! ALL MINE!!!!

|<grumbling about gifthorses and mouths>

Better to be American than not in it at all...
It was only a SMALL peeve.....

(I can be peevish at times.....)

:p
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:12:46 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: cyberware and it's effects on the psyche and body

In a message dated 97-07-11 05:38:05 EDT, florian.goll@******.UNI-WEIMAR.DE
(Raven) writes:

>
> Do you think this will help????
> Okay guys, who wants Cyberpsychosis in SR ;)
>
> (Raven, donning his Asbestos Underwear(TM?), resuplying his
> carp-shelter and hides in it)
> --Raven
>
Been there, done that....
-K (Flack Jacket Screens to Maximum Ensign Kirk!!!)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:15:35 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: 2XS/Dirk Montgomery (Was Combat Spells -- Level 6?)

In a message dated 97-07-11 05:55:39 EDT, fro@***.AB.CA (Adam J) writes:

>
> >P.S. 2XS one of my favorite...probably second favorite after
> >changling.
>
> Haven't read Changling, but I would say 2XS probably is my favourite.
>
I got a kick out of House of the Sun and Burning Bright personally. Burning
nearly sent player shockwaves through my whole game group actually. We being
in the shadow of Chicago (Lafayette is close), it made us think of nasty
alternatives (just what -IS- Purdue hiding in their steam tunnels anyway?)
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:18:46 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: SR/ED ties (slight rant)
Comments: To: florian.goll@******.uni-weimar.de

In a message dated 97-07-11 06:23:27 EDT, florian.goll@******.uni-weimar.de
(Raven) writes:

> > Ok ok ok our two main weapons are Shadowrun and the big comfy chair...no
> > wait...
> ... our THREE main weapons are Shadowrun, the big comfy chair and the
> soft cushions... aaaand
> --Raven
>
AAAaaand, the Remote "Player OFF!!!" aaaand the dog "sick him Nicki, get
him
girl (75 pounds of golden shepherd drift over waving tail gleefully draggin
the dreaded 'rascally rabbit' toy with her).
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:20:15 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: 2XS/Dirk Montgomery (Was Combat Spells -- Level 6?)

In a message dated 97-07-11 07:32:45 EDT, habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU writes:

>
> Dirk is definately amusing. At least when he get's hit with a dumpster his
> reply is to fall to the ground and say Duh! That kind of vulneralility
> impresses me unlike characters like Striper or the group from Black
Madonna,
> Gerriant and his buddies.
>
>
Striper!!! The ultimate in ---Pussy Cats---
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:21:19 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: books again

In a message dated 97-07-11 07:37:46 EDT, Brother-1@*****.NET writes:

> Why not send in to FASA for a 2nd ed place book, or errata. Maybe put in
> your two cents when they announce that they're gonna make one?
> Incidentally, aside from "Paradise Lost" and a brief mention in
> "Underworld Sourcebook", IIRC, is there any info on Hawaii?
>
House of the Sun, Nigel's last book, had some as well, but you'd have to be
careful, as he's not a "Canon" author. Of course, ALL of his stuff has been
incorporated into the game, so take it as you will...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:26:58 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Optional Metatypes, part 3: Sasquatch

In a message dated 97-07-11 09:18:34 EDT, gurth@******.NL (Gurth) writes:

>
> > I agree with Bull. I have always thought due to their vocal cords' make
> > up that they were not able to speak any complicated languages.
>
> Yet they can reproduce sounds of cars, dog,s aircraft, horses, etc.
> without any problem? This has always appeared a bit strange to me...
>
>
Part of my curiosity got enhanced by the topic of Language vs. Vocal Range.
Parrots for example have a FAR wider range than humans, yet can't
communicate in a way short of "stock mimicry" than ourselves. Dolphins (and
Cetaceans in general) have even wider yet, and show signs of communication
(very good signs, awesome to listen to when you're alone, in the dark).

Anyway, perhaps it's part of the mental framework of the Sasquoi, they can
communicate and use language, but they consider "vocal language" to be a
mimicry and not -REAL- communication, which comes from other sources. The
difference between "chatter" and "true comprehension."
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 09:17:41 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Fetish & Exclusive Spells (suggestions)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

| |Ah well if you don't want to be in a book i'll take your spot next time.
|
| OH NO YOU DON'T!
| It's MY spot! Mine! ALL MINE!!!!

Damn. Well it WAS worth a shot.

| |<grumbling about gifthorses and mouths>
|
| Better to be American than not in it at all...
| It was only a SMALL peeve.....

Well okay then...us Americans are testy like that. 'cides i'm jealous.
;p~~

| (I can be peevish at times.....)

You Spike?!?!?! Never?!?!?! <g>

| :p

No thanks I don't french long distance.

Sorry all this kid show talk has gotten me nostalgic.

-Caric

"Why is there no blue food!!!!"
-George Carlin
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 17:35:18 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Fetish & Exclusive Spells (suggestions)
In-Reply-To: <199707121628.MAA29598@********.mcit.com> from "Caric" at
Jul 12,
97 09:17:41 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

|Sorry all this kid show talk has gotten me nostalgic.

<aol>

ME TOO!

</aol>

I Like talking about telly once in a while....

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:39:06 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Spell List [Longish] (Not Quite so Long Now)

In a message dated 97-07-11 10:10:24 EDT, daddyjim@**********.COM (Loki)
writes:

> Orgasm
<snip>
> Note: The original spell designer, Caric, uses an expendable fetish
> version that requires glow-in-the-dark condoms to be thrown towards
> his target.

Oh Caric, that's priceless...

> Soul Jar
<snip>

You're right, she's got a BEAUTIFULLY twisted, toxic mind...

> Rejuvinate
<snip>

I really liked this one.

> Solar Flare
> A specialized combat spell using the elemental effects of the sun.
> Against a normal target the spell works more or less as a standard
> power bolt. However, when cast at a target with an allergy or
> vulnerability to sunlight, the spell receives the bonuses listed under
> the severity or vulnerability.

It sounds like the Awakenings "Light" elemental effect.

> Lugee Blast
> Lugee Blast is an area effect spell. This blast covers the target with
> saliva and mucas. A secondary effect requires the target to make a
> quickness test to keep from falling. The target number for the falling
> test is the force of the spell +1 for every 2 successes.

Oh my god, I've been slimed!!!! (ghostbusters) -or- I don't really want to
do this, and believe -ME- I DON'T want to do this (sucking noises begin as
Tick inhales the "snot clone")...

> Integrate Clothing
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Class: Manipulation
> Type: Physical
> Range: Limited
> Target: ORT
> Duration: Sustained
> Drain: (F/2+1)D
>
> When cast, every 2 success will allow five kilograms of equipment,
> weapons, and such on your body to disappear and blend in with your
> Aura. During the sustained period all of your stuff is gone (no sneaky
> walking around naked with an armor rating of 7/2).

Okay, this one I have to comment on seriously. When you say "blend in with
your Aura", how much of this do you mean? I see lots of room for nasty
possibilities. Ranging from "sure your armor goes with you into the Astral
now, it's part of your Aura" to "What do you mean my armor took damage from
that Manaball?"

I guess I am just a bit lost on this one, could you explain it's purpose or
intent more please?

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:44:30 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Changing the System (Was [SR3] Magical Magic)

In a message dated 97-07-11 10:57:35 EDT, NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU
(Bruce H. Nagel) writes:

> > Damage Staging 1 .... +1 Drain Category
> > Drain Staging 1 .... +1 Drain Category
>
> > Drain Staging 2 .... No Modifier
> > Damage Staging 2 .... No Modifier
>
> > Drain Staging 3 .... -1 Drain Category
> > Damage Staging 3 .... -1 Drain Category
>
> > By this I mean that it would take 3 successes to stage things for Drain
> > Staging 3, etc...sorry to cut this short, gotta walk the dog really
quick..
> .
> Well, I think I would still go with Staging 2 for all spells for raising
the
> damage, but would maybe go for variable staging in the damage resistance
> (otherwise the staging cuts both ways and changes very little).
>
> losthalo

Oh no, if you had a guy who wanted to use this option, you could do the
following...

Mana Spike
Base Damage : L
Base Drain : L
LOS : No Modifier
Damage Staging 1 : Drain Category +1
Drain Staging 1 : Drain Category +1
Damage Reduction (variation on a theme) Staging 3 : Drain Category +1

End Drain : (f/2)D

sure, it's a little spell, but the mage gets the good end and the recipient
gets shafted to hell and back...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:53:26 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals

In a message dated 97-07-11 13:12:29 EDT, caric@********.COM (Caric) writes:

> net
> | successes achieved on the preparation work is usable as a bonus magic
> pool
> | for the operation itself.
>
> Hey that's not a bad idea...not bad at all. It's true that mages have
> always had to set up those darn circles, but nothing was ever really done
> with them.
>
> -Caric
>
Oh my god!!! Caric liked my idea ( a tear coming to my eye ... "Nicki, quit
wagging your tail in my face..")

"It was nothing" (claims the enchanter adept whose been around for a while)
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:58:04 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,

In a message dated 97-07-11 13:34:51 EDT, fro@***.AB.CA (Adam J) writes:

> >> Guaranteed Conception
> >> Drain : (F/2)M (even with a complicated modifier added)
> >> Range : Touch (this is touch if nothing isn't)
> >> Type : Physical (actually, it can Mana as well, similar to Heal/Treat)
> >
> >> It was used in the games to acquire possibly the most unique arcana I
> have
> >> ever had at any time. The Newborn Embryo.

<snipped sections of a 'complaint'.>

Sorry, I really didn't mean to offend. I was just tossing this out. And, as
I mentioned in my original posting, it (the act of the spell being used a
particular way) has caused ripples that continue to this day.

>
> Hrm. Sounds rather fun, actually.. Although I think my view of the
> Shadowrun world is a bit more..err.. well, gruesome and nasty. FASA's
> Shadowrun is a bit more fluffy and magical than I like.
> In todays world, people are stealing/killing/aborting babies.. using it
for
> some magical purposes is probably more honourable than that, IMO.
>
> -Aj

And, actually Aj, the idea of Shadowrun being a bit to "fluffy", well, I
guess I can see where you are saying, however, look at the implications.

SR had to pass the censorhip rules somehow...honourable doesn't exist in this
example...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 13:01:31 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,or Bring out your
Spells,Bringout your spells!

In a message dated 97-07-11 13:48:37 EDT, NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU
(Bruce H. Nagel) writes:

> Define violence as you will, but I generally define it as someone doing
what
> they want to with my body without my permission. This counts... It's not
> putting someone to sleep to avoid killing them, it's an invasion of
privacy
> and
> humiliating.

True, but for a game theme, it can be performed, just with caution for those
in mind...unless you intended what I did, go for the shock value of some
players whom have become to smug in their own actions and abuses...

>
> but of all the spells
> > you could cast on someone it's hardly the worst. Would you rather have
an
> > orgasm and get tired or burn to death as your head explodes?
>
> That really isn't the point. 'Would you rather be raped or murdered?'
isn't
> a
> fair choice, neither is something you should do to someone, eh? Some
people
> view sex pretty seriously, and this would be an extreme violation, doing
it
> to
> someone against their will (as opposed to voluntarily, which is an
original
> and
> interesting idea :) is the equivalent of taking control of their most
> personal
> thoughts and desires. Not nice.
>
> To those who think I'm taking this too seriously, well, *shrug*
>
> losthalo

Halo, sorry I said. I wasn't trying to start a war here. And yes, you are
right, sexual "non-aggressive" violence does exist. In SR's "world"
it would
definitely exist. Adam (admin), I guess you are right, this does fall under
the category of "adult-theme" content. I will try and be more responsible in
the future postings of such.

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 09:52:03 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Spell List [Longish] (Not Quite so Long Now)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

| > Orgasm
| <snip>
| > Note: The original spell designer, Caric, uses an expendable fetish
| > version that requires glow-in-the-dark condoms to be thrown towards
| > his target.
|
| Oh Caric, that's priceless...

Thanks :) That was in my wild and wooly days...might be time for another
character to learn this one though.

| > Soul Jar
| <snip>
|
| You're right, she's got a BEAUTIFULLY twisted, toxic mind...

<grumble, curse> Fraggin' acid steam cast little bitc*muffle*...

| > Rejuvinate
| <snip>
|
| I really liked this one.

So do we. After we sat down one day and figured out what your average
runner would look like after a year of shadowrunning...especially sammies
it became a staple. Usually the group all chips in karma for the magician
to learn it. Not straight SR acceptable perhaps, but we all stretch it a
bit sometimes neh?

| > Solar Flare
| > A specialized combat spell using the elemental effects of the sun.
| > Against a normal target the spell works more or less as a standard
| > power bolt. However, when cast at a target with an allergy or
| > vulnerability to sunlight, the spell receives the bonuses listed under
| > the severity or vulnerability.
|
| It sounds like the Awakenings "Light" elemental effect.

milar, but it would contain the ultra violet radiation and such that would
make it just lilke sunlight. Great for our vampiric buddies, which is what
it was originally designed for.

| > Lugee Blast
| > Lugee Blast is an area effect spell. This blast covers the target with
| > saliva and mucas. A secondary effect requires the target to make a
| > quickness test to keep from falling. The target number for the falling
| > test is the force of the spell +1 for every 2 successes.
|
| Oh my god, I've been slimed!!!! (ghostbusters) -or- I don't really
want to
| do this, and believe -ME- I DON'T want to do this (sucking noises begin
as
| Tick inhales the "snot clone")...

LOL!!!!

| > Integrate Clothing
| >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
| > Class: Manipulation
| > Type: Physical
| > Range: Limited
| > Target: ORT
| > Duration: Sustained
| > Drain: (F/2+1)D
| >
| > When cast, every 2 success will allow five kilograms of equipment,
| > weapons, and such on your body to disappear and blend in with your
| > Aura. During the sustained period all of your stuff is gone (no sneaky
| > walking around naked with an armor rating of 7/2).
|
| Okay, this one I have to comment on seriously. When you say "blend in
with
| your Aura", how much of this do you mean? I see lots of room for nasty
| possibilities. Ranging from "sure your armor goes with you into the
Astral
| now, it's part of your Aura" to "What do you mean my armor took damage
from
| that Manaball?"

Okay the guidelines that were set on this spell were pretty stringent.
First off we decided that a persons aura extends about 2-3 inches out from
their body. This means anything huge isn't going with you. When the
clothing is integrated it is not there...no armor rating counts, nothing.
For all intents and purposes it is gone. The sole purpose of this spell
was to allow our Wolf Shaman to shapechange without showing up naked again
later. It never much bothered me, but he was intent on keeping his clothes
with him, so we let him.

You may have seen the .sig I had for awhile that said "I was Naked!!!" we
it was those words spoken one blustery night whilst running in the original
~H~ that would later pursuade Rookie to design the spell.

SPOILERS FOR THE END OF THE ORIGINAL HARLEQUINN ADVENTURE
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#

That should be fine.

Anyway if you all recall the part right before the fight between Ehran and
Harley when what you think is Ehran is lying there on the ground in the big
antechamber, at least he was when we played it its been so long that I
can't remember if we did something to him or not. Our intrepid and curious
raccoon shaman had changed into a raccoon and was poking around. The
little ppl running around down there thought that he was cute and cuddly
and started chasing him around. He ran away and got separated from us and
eventually changed back so that he could open a door...naked as a
jaybird...he then proceeded to strip down the faux Ehran and steal his
clothes. Harlequinn was less than pleased about that to say the least.

| I guess I am just a bit lost on this one, could you explain it's purpose
or
| intent more please?

Well there you have it. The player that was the raccoon shaman never
really cared, but Rookie didn't wanna end up naked. You know hoe those
wolf shamans are. <shrug>

:)

-Caric

"Why is there no blue food!!!!"
-George Carlin

See Above.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 13:10:59 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,

In a message dated 97-07-11 15:10:22 EDT, NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU
(Bruce H. Nagel) writes:

> Missed that you were using *aborted*fetuses in this... No, I don't have any
> real problem with already-dead matter being used, just prodicing fetuses
for
> the sake of magical processes. That goes against the grain, to me...
> Maybe, if the 'donor' volunteered. But why would such material be useful?

> It
> still comes real close to blood magic, sacrifice of living things, which
is
> quite verboten in SR as-written.
>
> losthalo
>
You are correct in that rules notification. Which is the other reason I am
desirous of Earthdawn never getting a really good conversion to SR going.
The ED system uses blood magic of every kind I think.
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 13:12:52 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: More Elvis jokes (was Re: an idea...)

In a message dated 97-07-11 15:32:51 EDT, fro@***.AB.CA (Adam J) writes:

> >Does this mean that after I die I will be spotted in supermarkets all over
> >the world? :)
>
> Amish communities don't generally have supermarkets.. :)
>
> (Inside joke, everyone.)
>
> *snicker*
>
> -Adam
>
THWAP!!!!!
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 13:14:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals

In a message dated 97-07-11 15:34:14 EDT, NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU
(Bruce H. Nagel) writes:

> > I'm Sorry halo, got me confused...I meant that they use one centering
> skill
> > for the first test and a second, different, skill for the second
test...I'
> m a
> > master at knowing what is stackable and what isn't...
>
> Meaning one to reduce penalties and one to resist drain? But... I thought

> that
> was specifically disallowed, or are you talking about something else?
>
> losthalo
>
>
In a great form summoning, there is the conjuring drain for the initial
spirit and the great form "drain" for the quest. One centering skill for
each test.
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 13:15:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: "Shadow" of an Apology (to Gurth- OT)

In a message dated 97-07-11 15:47:57 EDT, dvixen@********.COM (Dvixen)
writes:

>
> Hrmmm... If Ivanova followed a totwm, SR style, which one would it be?
>
>
DOG, definitely focused on it and very loyal to a given cause. I guess you
could go for Eagle, but she's bent the rules many a time in the past.

Now Marcus, I don't know...Wolf maybe, but his sense of humor would supercede
Wolf's boundaries on more than one occasion.
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 10:01:35 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

| > >> It was used in the games to acquire possibly the most unique arcana
I
| > have
| > >> ever had at any time. The Newborn Embryo.
|
| <snipped sections of a 'complaint'.>
|
| Sorry, I really didn't mean to offend. I was just tossing this out.
And, as
| I mentioned in my original posting, it (the act of the spell being used a
| particular way) has caused ripples that continue to this day.

It is a tad distasteful, but I think that if it hit home with your
characters then it was a good plot device. Shadowrun isn't a pleasant
setting and certain nasties are going to occur. If this was a PC that did
it I would have some definate long term effects of his using the particular
arcana however. Bad Karma in the extreme chummer.

Remind me of the time that we had to save a virgin from being
sacrificed...we had gotten the girl, but we were on the run. One of our
runners figured that if she wasn't a virgin then well you can gather the
rest. Distasteful? Yes. An adult theme? Yes. Did it work in our game? At
the time yes. Completely necessary? Who knows, but it did add some things
that we got to bounce around role-playing wise.

| >
| > Hrm. Sounds rather fun, actually.. Although I think my view of the
| > Shadowrun world is a bit more..err.. well, gruesome and nasty. FASA's
| > Shadowrun is a bit more fluffy and magical than I like.
| > In todays world, people are stealing/killing/aborting babies.. using
it
| for
| > some magical purposes is probably more honourable than that, IMO.

I agree...SR is a nasty nasty place, filled with even nastier people.

| And, actually Aj, the idea of Shadowrun being a bit to "fluffy", well, I
| guess I can see where you are saying, however, look at the implications.
|
| SR had to pass the censorhip rules somehow...honourable doesn't exist in
this
| example...

I think that SR has lot some of its grit over the years, but lets face it
deep down we all want to be the hero...I think that you can only be a jaded
self centered schmuck-o for so long before you develope morals to save
yourself from being bored if nothing else.

-Caric

"Why is there no blue food!!!!"
-George Carlin
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 10:09:17 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,or Bring out
yourSpells,Bringout your spells!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<snip>
| True, but for a game theme, it can be performed, just with caution for
those
| in mind...unless you intended what I did, go for the shock value of some
| players whom have become to smug in their own actions and abuses...

Agreed...it's a good way to set someone off kilter.

| > To those who think I'm taking this too seriously, well, *shrug*

| Halo, sorry I said. I wasn't trying to start a war here. And yes, you
are
| right, sexual "non-aggressive" violence does exist. In SR's "world"
it
would
| definitely exist. Adam (admin), I guess you are right, this does fall
under
| the category of "adult-theme" content. I will try and be more
responsible in
| the future postings of such.

K, I wouldn't worry about it too much, I don't think that Losthalo was
offended, at least I didn't get that impression, I would hope that he knows
that a spell such as Orgasm is there to enrich our game world in a fun way.
If he doesn't agree with it that certainly his option and he should go
with it. I personally think it's a hoot that's why I design it, but if
noone else in the universe ever uses it then so be it, no skin off my nose.
As far as the adult content I think that we are all mature enough to
handle it (even 'lil baby Fro :) , but I think this thread is pretty much
dead anyway so it's probab;y a moot point.

-Caric

"Why is there no blue food!!!!"
-George Carlin
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 13:21:09 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Changing the System (Was [SR3] Magical Magic)

In a message dated 97-07-11 18:42:07 EDT, u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK (Spike)
writes:

> |By this I mean that it would take 3 successes to stage things for Drain
> |Staging 3, etc...sorry to cut this short, gotta walk the dog really
quick...
>
>
> If you want, I'll post up the design rules from the Grimoire. Give you an
> idea of how it SHOULD be done( and was, in 1st Ed ).....
>
No thanks Spike, I'm the only person in the area of Lafayette as an SR player
it seems to really understand the spell design rules. Not trying to stroke
my ego or other body parts here either, I am just tired of people "rule
munching" the spell design options so that they can make MONGO SLAYS ALL
spells and get away with little to no drain.

I like the design rules, they just need some more guidelines for helping in
creating color and depth...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 09:07:35 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mARCiN sERkIES <yasiu@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Music for Shadowrun
In-Reply-To: <199707120329.WAA16665@********.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 22:29 11.07.97 -0500, you wrote:
>I was listening to some of my CDs and remarking how some of the tunes would
>be appropriate for background use in Shadowrun games. Anyone else use music
>with their games?
>
>Some of the songs I thought of:
>
>"Zoo Station", U2, Achtung Baby
>"Tryin' To Throw Your Arms Around The World", U2, Achtung Baby
>"Acrobat", U2, Achtung Baby
>"Numb", U2, Zooropa
>"Lemon", U2, Zooropa
>"One Minute Warning", Passengers, Passengers: Original Soundtracks 1 (this
>was featured on "Ghost in the Shell")
>"Miss Sarajevo", Passengers, Passengers: Original Soundtracks 1
>
>I haven't finished my list yet. Any other suggestions?

Well... i`m using:

PRODIGY,
BODY COUNT
PANTERA
FUTURE SOUND OF LONDOS
sometimes THE DOORS, JIMI HENDRIX
OFFSPRING, DOG EAT DOG, SUCIDAL TENDENCIES

and lots, lots more i.e. TWIN PEAKS for dark scenarios...

i like music for sessions

yASIu...
e-maIL [yasiu@******.com]
rEAL nAME???? wHAt iS rEAl nAME???
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 08:55:03 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mARCiN sERkIES <yasiu@******.COM>
Subject: Re: how to
In-Reply-To: <199707112057.WAA18836@******.scc.uni-weimar.de>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 23:02 11.05.97 +0000, you wrote:
>> How to convert damage codes from 1st edition to second???
>Add the numbers together, so 4M2 becomes 6M and so on. Grenades are
><skipping through FoF> Offensive 30, Dfensive 30, Concussion 30,
>Smoke 30, Flash 40, Mini x2 listed price
>--Raven

Okee... thanks

yASIu...
e-maIL [yasiu@******.com]
rEAL nAME???? wHAt iS rEAl nAME???
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 19:20:56 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mARCiN sERkIES <yasiu@******.COM>
Subject: flood
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

News from Poland... My city is almost flooded. Council is panickaly trying to save oldest
part of city full of churches, museums etc... my only acces to the world is internet... i
can`t make outside city phone calls...

But i`m goin` to play tonight... i`m crazy :)

yASIu...
e-maIL [yasiu@******.com]
rEAL nAME???? wHAt iS rEAl nAME???
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 13:23:36 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Changing the System (Was [SR3] Magical Magic)

In a message dated 97-07-11 18:59:05 EDT, mike.paff@*****.COM writes:

> >
> If you incorporate these changes, make certain that if the target gets
more
> successes than the caster, he takes no damage. Otherwise, spellcasters
> will create base Deadly spells, damage staging 3, and the target would
> need to get 12+ successes to take no damage, and the spellcaster would
have
> less drain in the process.
>
> Mike Paff
>
>
Okay Mike, I started the thread, and you should have the suggestions for
spell design now. Create one for me that examples what you are describing
please. I am a bit confused and would like to be given some more help.
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 13:32:35 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: MP laser & mirrors

In a message dated 97-07-11 19:08:58 EDT, justin@******.NET (Jaymz) writes:

>
> Has anyone ever tried to deal with the MP laser and mirrors?
>
> Eg. a mirrored shield of some sort?
> Also using a mirror to assist aiming and aiming around corners, etc?
>
> -
Oh sure, yeah, here we go...

Binder and Greaser are trying to reach the control center for the old-folks
home in the basement. Floor is polished aluminum tile, walls are mirrored.
Along comes Steel Lynx with Gridlink-like mods and Sentry gun mounted MP
Laser. Electrified the floor, lynx doesn't use it's own batteries
(converters in the legs for good use). fired the beam at angles (SPU Math
and an SPU CAD (Cyber Aided Design) were good for this), starting pot
shotting.

Greaser goes into defensive mode, tries to put the plates of his armor more
directly into the beam (called dodge rolls were a new one to us). Binder
goes for the ceiling and stays off the floor (Greaser had the better
insulated shows, Binder had his softsoles).

Binder yanks out his enchanter's kit, pulls out a small mirror and goes for a
called reflection hit. Then, after dealing with the drone, two sentry MP's
on the door sides to the room itself were beginning their fire runs. Of
course, the control center had previously lots of time to directly aim out
the lasers, so they got none of the modifiers (jerks).

Each bank on the walls was a +2 mod (similar to the symmetry rules for CCSS
and mages). Called shots for dodge and reflection were +4's. Base dodge for
lasers is a 6 here.

I played in this one (Binder is an old character of mine, 3rd one I ever
made) and Brent (Greaser, who is the OLDEST SR character I know of). Mike
(Airwisp on the rec.games.frp.cyber) list was the gm. the rest of the group
were dealing with the Knight Errant guys on third floor while trying to reach
the little old lady who had the information in her subconscious mind that we
needed.

Wheenie the Mage cries out "I don't wanna die" on his hands and knees, with
his hands in front of him, begging or so it seemed. Party ignores the nerd
guy (looked like a hospital technician and goes for the sammie types), who is
actually "whining" and "begging" as Centering skills, who promptly
threw a
blast spell at the lot of them.

Yes, it was a game for the books..
-K

It was fun, sure it was...
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 13:35:23 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,
or Bring out your Spells,Bring out your spell

In a message dated 97-07-11 19:13:44 EDT, NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU
(Bruce H. Nagel) writes:

>
> Developing a fetus for the purposes of using it as magical materials?
> Can you say... blood magic? You're really walking the fine line on this
one,
>
> lots of mages would take an interest in booting someone who put such a
spell
> to
> such uses. I can see you being hunted over this sort of thing, if for no
> other
> reason than mucking up the limited good reputation magicians have.
>
> losthalo
>
>
Have you ever read "the Misenchanted Sword?" (author is forgotten, my copy
was stolen)...it was the requirement for a youth spell.

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 13:36:48 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Fetish & Exclusive Spells (suggestions)

In a message dated 97-07-11 19:35:32 EDT, u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK writes:

>
> I did skip a little, but the point still stands.
> Geasa should NOT give bonuses for ANY reason, ever......
> --
>
It's an opinion thing, because the books state such as options. Kind of goes
with Fetishes being part of a spell design and getting more from it. Geasa
is a term, learn its TOTAL definition before you pick and choose.
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:42:19 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: James Paulsen <lowfyr@***********.COM>
Organization: Northern Net
Subject: Re: Music for Shadowrun
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dan Coffin wrote:
>
> I was listening to some of my CDs and remarking how some of the tunes would
> be appropriate for background use in Shadowrun games. Anyone else use music
> with their games?

<snip stuff on music selections>

> I haven't finished my list yet. Any other suggestions?

I use a lot of industrial (Ministry, Die Krupps, Gravity Kills etc.) for
clubs and combat, but have a lot of music for many occasions.

The "Aliens" ST is a must for any venture into Bug City or moving
through the sewers of Seattle.

Its hard to go to Aztlan without the already metnioned Desparado ST, or
a popular Maricachi <sp> group called the Gypsy Kings.

Something else we have done is make tape recordings of automatic weapons
fire and car chases of sound effects CDs. We have three stereos going at
once and an extremely gratifying effect (when circumstances call for it)
is to play something like Ministry, with the two tapes going. It makes
it a little harder to communicate, but the overall effect is very cool
and seems to charge everyone up.

Jim

PS--The only music we haven't touched (and won't as long as we play
under my roof with me as the GM) is country and rap.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 13:45:57 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Idiot Definitions...(was B5 stuff)...)

In a message dated 97-07-11 23:49:25 EDT, u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK (Spike)
writes:

> >
> |Yeah, that I saw too...oops, forgot the advanced spoiler blocker...
>
> THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!!!!
>
> IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!
>
Spike, that is in regards to Me. I apologize for this, however, it's an
"Idiot Savante", get it right...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 10:44:38 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mike.paff@*****.COM
Subject: Re: Changing the System (Was [SR3] Magical Magic)

From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
> In a message dated 97-07-11 18:59:05 EDT, mike.paff@*****.COM writes:
> > If you incorporate these changes, make certain that if the target gets more
> > successes than the caster, he takes no damage. Otherwise, spellcasters
> > will create base Deadly spells, damage staging 3, and the target would
> > need to get 12+ successes to take no damage, and the spellcaster would have
> > less drain in the process.
> >
> Okay Mike, I started the thread, and you should have the suggestions for
> spell design now. Create one for me that examples what you are describing
> please. I am a bit confused and would like to be given some more help.
>
Spell: ManaMunch
Base Damange: D
Base Drain: D
Range: LOS (no drain mod)
Type: Mana (no drain mod)
Damage Staging: 3 (-1 Drain Category)
Drain Staging: 2 (no drain mod)
Final Drain: (F/2)S2
Damage Code: (F)D3

Using the standard SR II rules, if the caster gets 1 success and the target
gets 2, there is no effect (and I have no problem with this). The caster still
must resist drain.

However, a house rule that has been discussed lately would require the
target to stage the damage all the way down to take no damage. With this
rule, the caster would only need one success to cast the spell, and the target
would need 13 successes to take no damage (1 to negate the caster's success
and 3 per damage category D->S->M->L->None) and the caster would face Serious
drain. Using a standard damage staging of 2 and this house rule, the target
would need 9 successes to take no damage (1 to negate the caster's success
and 2 per damage category D->S->M->L->None) and the caster would face Deadly
drain.

I hope this makes my warning a little clearer.

Mike Paff
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 14:01:56 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Guaranteed Conception

In a message dated 97-07-12 05:32:39 EDT, ddmaster@**.NET (Black Death)
writes:

>
> This spell IMHO will be used more by people who are trying to save the
> endangered species of the world. Which would explain why it was created
> and provably what it was originally designed for (IMHO).

Go ahead and think of it what you will (ewg)...

>
> (AFTER THOUGHT)
>
> What ever happened to Green Peace in 205* ??

Are they "Earth First" or "TerraFIRST!!" ???
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 14:03:39 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Apology (was about B5 spoilers)
Comments: To: shergold@***********.net

In a message dated 97-07-12 06:59:53 EDT, shergold@***********.net (Shergold)
writes:

>
> About the Babylon 5 spoilers and anyone's delicate sensiblitlies that I
> have offended I apologize. I was merely responding to someone's post, I
had
> put a spoiler header in before I downspaced (I did read the FAQ BTW ). Any
> subsequent postings after mine, people didn't include my spoiler warning.
I
> was somewhat irritated at the time of my last message and what I said came
> out with a bit more venom than intended.
>
> <Scene of SilverFire withdrawing with hat in hand>
>
> SilverFire

And as I said elsewhere, it was MY mistake, not SF's, so back down a bit...
-K (who was here for the conversation on spoilers)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 20:07:13 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <casanova@***.passagen.se>
From: Stefan <casanova@***.PASSAGEN.SE>
Subject: Mailing list Digest ?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hoi,

Is there anybody else that find it a real pain if you don't check you
mail like five times a day when you do you have to download a couple
of hundred mails ... Most of the frankly of no worth or interest at
all ...

would it be so hard to have like a daily digest instead ... sure it
would come later than the mails but instead of getting all those
"small" mails you would just get on alittle larger.

Even thou the main letter in it self is not very large the mail is.
With all the information its contains about origin, time, datestamps
and god knows all the other crap in there.

And you would not have to have all them letters saying I agree or the
once saying "Is this thing working ?".

I want a daily digest instead it would be so nice.

/Stefan
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 14:11:10 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Fetish & Exclusive Spells (suggestions)

In a message dated 97-07-12 13:08:57 EDT, u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK (Spike)
writes:

> |WRONG!!!
>
> Nope. Not wrong! Thayt was taken totally out of context and you know it!
>
> Since when have PAs been able to cast spells?
> (This thread is about Geasa and SPELLCASTING!)

But you took it beyond it by saying Geasa NEVER are beneficial. The books
offer such for physical adepts, physical mages, all mages for their spells.

>
> |No Again, basically a given foci is being used as a "Talismanic Geasa" to
a
> |particular spell. "I can't throw this spell without -THIS- particular
> |object, AT ALL." It may seem strange, but it can be done and can even be
> |done within the mechanics of the SR system. AND it can be done and
> maintain
> |the magical balance. Actually, it even helps to keep the balance.
>
> Yes, but this IS spellcasting, so no bonuses there then....
> Only PENALTIES for NON-USE.

Nope, the penalties for non-use are different. Quit reading or "slam
reading" sets of paragraphs together within the rule books. Geasa is a term
that means "crutch" or "accompaniment". That is also a synonym for
Fetish.

And when you specifically design something into a spell, it does give
bonuses. For the design itself, they exist. It may NOT be a bonus for the
"then and there" casting of the spell, it is in the preparation and creation
itself. Go beyond the "then and there", go into the total action.
-K (who is really looking at Spike strangely now)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 21:34:32 +0000
Reply-To: shadowrn@********.ITRIBE.NET
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <goll1@********.hab-weimar.de>
From: Raven <florian.goll@******.UNI-WEIMAR.DE>
Subject: Re: Guaranteed Conception
In-Reply-To: <33C72F2F.6030C534@**.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Black Death spoke:

> (AFTER THOUGHT)
>
> What ever happened to Green Peace in 205* ??

They became militant and renamed to GreenWar, ecoterrorists par
excellence.
--Raven

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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 21:34:32 +0000
Reply-To: shadowrn@********.ITRIBE.NET
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <goll1@********.hab-weimar.de>
From: Raven <florian.goll@******.UNI-WEIMAR.DE>
Subject: Re: cyberware and it's effects on the psyche and body
In-Reply-To: <Lchg6TAP32xzEw9g@********.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

<Snip Combat>

> "Monitor and report. Let's see if we killed that thread in time...
> Reload tubes one and three, just in case. Secure from Action
> Stations..."
<Raven laying low on ground and laughing to himself, cause he took
out Pauls Carps with his fish-egg-evasion-system, than thinking 'so
what about grounding now???'>

> The leviathan resumes its patrol.
Till I get on him again ;)

Raven-the-laying-low-and-covering-quite-quickly-Elven-Rigger
--Raven

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G(++) e>++++ h--(---) !r z?
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 21:34:32 +0000
Reply-To: shadowrn@********.ITRIBE.NET
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <goll1@********.hab-weimar.de>
From: Raven <florian.goll@******.UNI-WEIMAR.DE>
Subject: Re: how to
In-Reply-To: <199707121527.KAA15947@********.mcit.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Caric critizised:
<snip quote from BBB>

> So Raven we dead on, but I thought that last little bit was important.

Yeah, but my BBB is at my Players, and I won't get my hands back on
it for 3months <tears running down the cheeks>, so thanx for the
correction, I my have a carp or two left ;)
--Raven

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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 21:34:32 +0000
Reply-To: shadowrn@********.ITRIBE.NET
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <goll1@********.hab-weimar.de>
From: Raven <florian.goll@******.UNI-WEIMAR.DE>
Subject: Re: flood
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970712192056.0069f650@******.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable

yASIu sent:
> News from Poland... My city is almost flooded. Council is
> panickaly trying to save oldest part of city full of churches,
>museums etc... my only acces to the world is internet... i can`t
>make outside calls...
> But i`m goin` to play tonight... i`m crazy :)
Yeah... we all are, or who would play games if its 35°C outside
(okay.. its just too hot for me).
Seen the flooding in the news and some special reports, I hope it's
not too bad for you. Good luck to your people!
--Raven

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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 21:34:31 +0000
Reply-To: shadowrn@********.ITRIBE.NET
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <goll1@********.hab-weimar.de>
From: Raven <florian.goll@******.UNI-WEIMAR.DE>
Subject: Re: What is BBB??
In-Reply-To: <33C72B5E.222A0078@**.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Black Death dared to ask:
> What is BBB??
>
> Somebody please tell me.
The Big Black Book is SR II, the second edition of Shadowrun, the
sequel of Big Blue Book ;)
--Raven

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=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 05:25:28 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Damion Milliken <milko@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: SR I question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.91.970711131306.7279A-100000@******.student.cwru.edu>
from Josh Higham at "Jul 11, 97 01:14:41 pm"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Josh Higham writes:

> > The game store here has a used copy of SR I and claims it to be first
> > printing and there doesn't seem to be any kind of print code in it.
> >
> > How do you tell?
>
> Usually look on the inside of the cover or first page, where they have
> the copyright and printing info, there will be a list of printings:

Most often there will be no indication if the book is a 1st printing. It
will just say:

"Published by FASA Corporation
P.O. Box 6930 Chicago, Il 60680"

Instead of:

"Corrected 11th Printing
Published by FASA Corporation
P.O. Box 6930 Chicago, Il 60680"

This is usually found on the "Credits" page, which lists athe writers of the
book, just after the contents. Sometimes it can be found on the back of the
book, near the bar code and ISBN number.

PS: Greetings to all, I hear that 3rd Ed is in the works and suggestions are
requested? True? Any special place to send them, and any particular
requirements for submissions and suggestions?

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: milko@***.edu.au
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D G+ e>++++ h(*) !r (!)y--(+)
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=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 05:39:50 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Damion Milliken <milko@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Centering vs Penalties (was Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals)
In-Reply-To: <199707121403.JAA13191@********.mcit.com> from Caric at "Jul 12,
97 06:52:48 am"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Caric writes:

> This forced me to ponder (no easy task at 6AM on a Saturday) the exact
> functioning of area effect spells. If I understand correctly you toss the
> spell at a target and if it grounds out from him it hits anyone else in the
> area of effect, but only if you can see them. Yet if the spell doesn't
> ground throught the original target then it doesn't go off.

This is the case for grounding a spell from the astral plane, yes. However,
it is not the case for casting an area of effect spell at targets on the
plane that the caster is currently in.

> If you have to target the auras of all the targets why wouldn't the spell
> try to hit them all regardless, and if you have to just hit the one target
> why would you have to see the other targets?

I'm a little confused by this. If an area of effect spell is being cast at
a group of people, then it affects each on individualy. The affect (or lack
thereof) of the spell on one person does not change the affect of the spell
on another. As for the requirement to see all the targets of a spell, it
has to do with the "synchonising araus" thing - you can't affect a target
that you cannot synchronise with (exception: DM spells).

> Now if the caster does not need to see the other targets (I just checked
> the BBB and didn't find anything that said one way or the other, but I just
> read the little blurb about area of effect spells in the "spells" section)
> then why would vision and other situational modifiers ,other than cover,
> effect the target numbers to damage them?

Although the caster does need to see the targets of a spell to affect them,
you bring up a good point. Since the spell caster does a quick switch to
astral perception to synchronise auras with the target of the spell, it
would seem logical that many of the situation modifiers (lighting in
particular) would be irrelevent. Modifiers due to smoke, mist, or rain
would still apply, as these distort and block vision on the astral plane the
same as they do on the physical, however. The only real reason I can think
of right now for still including the vision lightin modifiers in spell
casting is that the quick action of astral perception that the spell caster
undertakes to synchronise auras is only quick enough to synchronise auras,
not significant enough to allow readjustment of targetting. If the
targetting is poor, perhaps due to being unable to see that target clearly,
then the synchronisation will also be poor.

As for the requirement to "centre" spells on a target, I always used to run
it that spells other than DMs had such a requirement. However, upon
looking, I cannot find where I obtained this ruling from (perhaps 1st Ed?).
Also, I cannot really see any reason that a comabt spell requires that the
centre of its affect be a specific target of the spell. After all, its is
just pumping energy into the auras of all targets within its area of affect
- why should it need one at the centre?

PS: It's good to be back - it's been a long time since I've debated
grounding spells through quickenings cast on elven illuminati that have
masked them and are in FAB filled rooms lined with orichalcum. <VBG> :-)

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: milko@***.edu.au
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D G+ e>++++ h(*) !r (!)y--(+)
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 21:05:32 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,
In-Reply-To: <970712131058_-823853243@*******.mail.aol.com> from "J. Keith
Henry" at Jul 12, 97 01:10:59 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|You are correct in that rules notification. Which is the other reason I am
|desirous of Earthdawn never getting a really good conversion to SR going.
| The ED system uses blood magic of every kind I think.

True, but Blood Magic also exists in SR.
The only types of blood magic in EarthDawn available to Player Characters is
OATH magic, where they swear on their blood on something.
If they keep the Oath for a year, some bonus is gained. If they break the
oath, they gain a permanent scar on their body (usually forehead) in the
shape recognisable as OATHBREAKER....

All nasty forms of Blood Magic are for NPC use only...
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 21:15:37 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Apology (was about B5 spoilers)
In-Reply-To: <970712140339_26712042@*******.mail.aol.com> from "J. Keith
Henry" at Jul 12, 97 02:03:39 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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|And as I said elsewhere, it was MY mistake, not SF's, so back down a bit...
|-K (who was here for the conversation on spoilers)
|

Well... Of course I was, but I did specifically state only one day before
that I did NOT want to see even the smallest hint....

And then that happened.

Everyone else had been including 30 lines of spoiler space, so I safely
skipped those articles
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 21:18:27 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Mailing list Digest ?
In-Reply-To: <199707121807.UAA03110@******.passagen.se> from "Stefan" at
Jul
12, 97 08:07:13 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

|would it be so hard to have like a daily digest instead ... sure it
|would come later than the mails but instead of getting all those
|"small" mails you would just get on alittle larger.

There *IS* a digest option....
Can't remember if it's daily, but all you have to do for full info on how
top set up listserv to whatever way you want it is....

e-mail listserv@***tproc.itribe.net
subject: none

help
end

------------------------------------------------------------------------
This gives the full list of options and how to change them....

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 21:25:58 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Fetish & Exclusive Spells (suggestions)
In-Reply-To: <970712141107_-1292668305@*******.mail.aol.com> from "J. Keith
Henry" at Jul 12, 97 02:11:10 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

|-K (who is really looking at Spike strangely now)
|

Don't look at *ME* like that!
:)

Look, when I GM I allow bonuses only on things like Foci/fetishes/etc.
I don't recall seeing it anywhere in the rules stating that mages can CHOOSE
to have a Geas in order to gain some benefit.

Please. Before you start saying "Stop skimming the rules and read deeply",
would you at least quote chapter and verse?

And if it's from Awakenings, then I can't skim read it, because I don't have
it....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 10:29:19 -1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "... ..." <Brother-1@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: cyberware and it's effects on the psyche and body
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV)

>My god, he'll ask about grounding next...
ROFLMAOKTDATPB!!!!!
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 21:44:56 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: cyberware and it's effects on the psyche and body
In-Reply-To: <199707122029.NAA16388@****tod-101.bryant.webtv.net> from "...
..." at Jul 12, 97 10:29:19 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

|
|>My god, he'll ask about grounding next...
|ROFLMAOKTDATPB!!!!!
|

?????? WTF ?????
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 13:52:52 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Spaceman <spaced@*.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject: Target: UCAS and Bug Stuff
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970712044313.2257062e@*****.com>

>>>>> Bull didst say unto the aether thusly:

# SPOILERS FOR TARGET UCAS!!! (Nothing about Granite, Fro, or Spikey
# though...:))

# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @

# Ok, that's good...

# Wow, that is just truly hideous and foul... And gives me some GREAT ideas
# for adapting some of the older bug modules (I'm currently running Queen
# Euphoria, and plan to use some of United Brotherhood in the future...:))

Yes! a chance to run _Total Eclipse_ with a new twist......... Perhaps
Twilight is _really_ a wasp/ant/whatever messing with Eclipse's mind. or
Eclipse is really a 1)woman and 2)mantis shaman, and Twilight masks as a mantid
that got free. or something.....

# My quotes were cool, though I only had 2, and for some reason I'm southern
# and from New Orleans... But I can live with that...;] It was still cool
# to be in the book... And they were kinda long quotes...:]:]
You defended UCAS tho'. Perhaps I need to read it again, but I was
under the impression you just liked N'awlins spirit or some such. I noticed
Spike was still list.member.grumpy........

# That's about it. Looks like a good book over all... I look forward to
# reading the rest of it...;];]

The Boston section struck me as being somewhat flat, a sort of rehash
of other ideas. The only interesting thought was the catacombs, a sort of Ork
Underground for everybody. Perhaps combine that with some of the X-Men story
lines from back when I was into comic books (late eighties).

The Spaceman |When the fingers have no more kindling
spaced@*.washington.edu |the fire goes on burning, unaware that
Check out the Bill Page! |it's gone - Chuang-Tzu
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~spaced/bill.html
New maintainer of the Shadowrun Player Directory:
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~spaced/srdir/
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 16:59:00 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Josh Higham <jhigham@******.STUDENT.CWRU.EDU>
Subject: Commlink
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I don't have a SSC, and I'm trying to build a character with a military
background, so a commlink, radio and other cyber communications gear is
important. Despite help from people on #shadowrun, I still am having
problems:

1) I was looking at cyber groupings offered in the NAGEE I-IV compiled
archive, and was interested in one of the communications packages, and
was also trying to use the info to get a better grasp on what the
Commlink is/does. However, the essence costs for each package do not
match up (ie the raw cost listed in parens is not what I get if I add the
items together). Since the costs for other groups were fine, and it was
off for every comm package, I'm wondering if there was something that I
was missing.

2) I was told that the commlink let you not use your hands (this may
have been before I said it was cyberware, because it doesn't make sense
in that context) and that it lets you speak subvocally, which doesn't
make sense because at least for the telephone, it already allows
subvocally use.

3) I think it might allow use of extra items (anti-jamming eq or such).

Anyway, If it is ok I would like the description of the item, or some
clear indication on how it is used in conjunction with a radio, crypto
circuit, and scramble breaker.

Thanks.

*-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-*
Josh Higham jxh25@**.cwru.edu
11904 Carlton Rd. 410A http://129.22.241.146/~jhigham/
Cleveland OH 44106 Anon ftp available at the same site
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 14:01:13 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Spaceman <spaced@*.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject: France in 205x

I'm going to be running an SR event at Dragonflight[1] this year, and
it involves a resurrection of the Beaujolais Nouveau races. I need info
on what France is like in 205x, as FASA doesn't seem to have published a France
sourcebook, or even a Neo-Anarchist's guide to Europe. Has France balkanized
like Germany and Italy? If unified, what sort of government is there? Lots
of meta prejudice? relatively progressive race wise but rabidly anti-non-
French?

Thanks
Spaced

[1] Local con here in Seattle

The Spaceman |When the fingers have no more kindling
spaced@*.washington.edu |the fire goes on burning, unaware that
Check out the Bill Page! |it's gone - Chuang-Tzu
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~spaced/bill.html
New maintainer of the Shadowrun Player Directory:
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~spaced/srdir/
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 17:20:58 -0700
Reply-To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: Target: UCAS and Bug Stuff
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

# SPOILERS FOR TARGET UCAS!!! (Nothing about Granite, Fro, or Spikey
# though...:))

# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @
# @

> The Boston section struck me as being somewhat flat, a sort of rehash
> of other ideas. The only interesting thought was the catacombs, a sort of Ork
> Underground for everybody. Perhaps combine that with some of the X-Men story
> lines from back when I was into comic books (late eighties).

Being a native Bostonian, I was .very. unimpressed with that section of
Target: UCAS.
It relied heavily on stereotypes that are quickly becoming untrue
(Boston Harbor is toxic, Roxbury/Dorchester has fifteen gangers per
square foot..), although the noted difference between Irish and Tir was
appreciated. I guess there's only so much you can do 22 pages, sigh.
Thank goodness there was good stuff on Chicago!

I though someone mentioned that the major New England Mafia was based in
Providence, not Boston.... is that just my mistake?

And of course, I showed up as list.member.invisible, myself :)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 00:01:04 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bginc@***.zeelandnet.nl>
From: Gabriel <bginc@***.ZEELANDNET.NL>
Organization: Black Gate Inc.
Subject: Re: Storytelling
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> He is in hospital now debating whether (if?) Lone Star (his employer) will
> pay for a full cyberleg or only for some kind of clonal replacement... Not
> to mention how he's going to pay for the hospital treatment, but since
> he's got a job at a security firm I'll most likely assume he's got
> insurance and only charge him a little bit. Which should raise some
> eyebrows among the other players...

So, that WAS me, you were talking about, I was wondering already.
>
> *remembers player in question is on this list* I think I'll make him wish
> the mantis spirit killed him :) <EGMG>

Now that you mention it, if you had let the mantis spirit kill me,
then we wouldn't have had so much fun getting our limbs blown off ;-)

Lance Cooney

"Are you sure that part goes there?" said the sammy to the streetdoc

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=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 00:01:04 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bginc@***.zeelandnet.nl>
From: Gabriel <bginc@***.ZEELANDNET.NL>
Organization: Black Gate Inc.
Subject: Re: Storytelling
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> I guess that depends on if you left him alive so that you could rip his arm
> of with an elevator later or not.

To indulge all of you: it was my leg, and he did.

Lance Cooney

"I wish the Mantis spirit killed me."

-----------BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 18:25:23 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: 2XS/Dirk Montgomery ['Vulnerability' of characters]
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

>You know, Nightlife, it's looking more and more like you need a break
>from the list. You are taking every oppourtunity to slam whoever you
>feel like. (Myself included.)

Apparently it's ok to slam me, but when retribution come back it's "Hey why
did you do that?" As for slamming you that was a couple of months ago.

>I took my break, now it's your turn, kiddo. Come back after you loose
>the holier than thou attitude.

As for, my attitude, hmmm tried the nice guy route result = nowhere. Holier
than thou hmmm, perhaps I'm just too confident for my own well being. If you
don't like it, oh well.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

In their final year, all Game Master students are required to take one semester
of Manical Laughter.

Spoof of the Far Side.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 16:44:13 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Mailing list Digest ?
In-Reply-To: <199707121807.UAA03110@******.passagen.se>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 20:07 7/12/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Hoi,
>
>Is there anybody else that find it a real pain if you don't check you
>mail like five times a day when you do you have to download a couple
>of hundred mails ... Most of the frankly of no worth or interest at
>all ...

For the second time in as many months. If you want to have discussions
about what you like, START THEM!

>would it be so hard to have like a daily digest instead ... sure it
>would come later than the mails but instead of getting all those
>"small" mails you would just get on alittle larger.

If you would take 5 minutes to read the FAQ, it wouldn't be hard.

>Even thou the main letter in it self is not very large the mail is.
>With all the information its contains about origin, time, datestamps
>and god knows all the other crap in there.

*Sob*
I'm so sorry you don't like it. How about you write an email program that
doesn't add these fields.. I mean, it won't actually DO anything without
some of those fields, but hell..

>I want a daily digest instead it would be so nice.

Email listserv@***tproc.itribe.net

topic: none
body: set shadowrn digest

Read the Fucking FAQ!

-Adam

--
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
"Can I have a cup of angst to go with my un-happy meal?" -- Hi & Lois
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 16:49:12 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <ltwiss@****.cyberport.net>
From: VAEL <ltwiss@********.COM>
Subject: Hacking
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

The following has a slight vein of SR, and is of a subject matter
that I'm sure many have opinions and I just wanted to hear your side.

I sat down last night to browes the movie 'Hackers' and it
got me thinking. (Big surprise!)

For one to 'hack' you need passcodes or an intricate knowledge of the
programming language of the system. (very rudimentary thinking I know,
but I'm trying to make a point.)

To hack into a system, you are essentially writing counter programs
and altering present information inside the mark system.

Do then ends justify the means?

For all the time needed and required to obtain knowledge of a mark
system, just to infiltrate it, isn't there an easier way of obtaining
the goods you are trying to 'borrow'?

Is 'hacking' a viable means of theft? Or is just easier to steal your
brothers birth certificate, go down to the DMV with some of his mail,
and get a drivers license with his name on it (but your picture),
just to get a visa card that you need?

And of high tech theft? With the knowledge gain through countless
hours of self taught computer programming, wouldn't it be easier just
to go get a job at Fujitsu and steal the info from the inside?

Vael

"One of the most terrible moments in a boy's life, is when he discovers
his father and mother are human beings who share a love that he
can never quite taste. It's a loss, an awakening to the fact that
the world is there and here and we are in it alone.
The moment carries it's own truth; you can't evade it."
- Duke Paul-Muad'Dib Atreides
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 23:47:13 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Mailing list Digest ?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970712164413.006bd9f8@****.lis.ab.ca> from "Adam
J"
at Jul 12, 97 04:44:13 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

|Read the Fucking FAQ!

I just told him to e-mail listserv for help.
That way, he shouldn't NEED to ask any questions about setting no-mail,
etc.....

And it forces them to use the ol' grey matter a little....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 23:54:58 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Hacking
In-Reply-To: <199707122242.QAA15314@*****.cyberport.net> from "VAEL" at
Jul
12, 97 04:49:12 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

|Do then ends justify the means?

Sometimes, yes....

|For all the time needed and required to obtain knowledge of a mark
|system, just to infiltrate it, isn't there an easier way of obtaining
|the goods you are trying to 'borrow'?

Borrow? Implying you'll give it back some day???
LOL

|Is 'hacking' a viable means of theft?

Can be. Some systems today have howling security holes in them....
Unix for example.
Also, it's quite possibly to create a virus tagged to a peice of software
that auto-mails you the password of the poor idiot using the infected
stuff.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 18:03:23 +1000
Reply-To: jade@***.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jason & Deanna Rodhouse <jade@***.NET>
Subject: Hello
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hello all.
I've been lurking for awhile and decided it was about time to get off my
fat a** and formally introduce myself. My name is Jason but you can
call me Pilgrim after my very first character Billy Pilgrim. I've been
playing SR for about 3-4yrs now and ever since I started I have heard
many a fable about THE LIST and the discussions therein. Only recently
have I acquired a computer to see what all the fuss was about. I have
not been disappointed and look forward to the future threads(thread
magic?:)). Anyway, cya later.

Pilgrim
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 17:05:18 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Shadowrun Fluffy? (Was: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,)
In-Reply-To: <970712125802_817639484@*******.mail.aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:58 7/12/97 -0400, you wrote:
>> Hrm. Sounds rather fun, actually.. Although I think my view of the
>> Shadowrun world is a bit more..err.. well, gruesome and nasty. FASA's
>> Shadowrun is a bit more fluffy and magical than I like.
>>
>> -Aj
>
>And, actually Aj, the idea of Shadowrun being a bit to "fluffy", well, I
>guess I can see where you are saying, however, look at the implications.
>
>SR had to pass the censorhip rules somehow...honourable doesn't exist in this
>example...

Obviously. Replace Drek with Shit and Frag with Fuck, and Shadowrun would
have never been sold in most bookstores on that reason alone.
And I can understand that. FASA has to make money, so if they have to tone
down the aspects that would have been 'questionable' to the normal public.
I think most gamers have a higher tolerance for things such as that, however..

Although I have met a few people online who get offended when I use 'fuck'
during a game..

-Adam
--
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
"Can I have a cup of angst to go with my un-happy meal?" -- Hi & Lois
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 19:11:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Target: UCAS and Bug Stuff
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:52 PM 7/12/97 -0700, The Spaceman wrote these timeless words:
># SPOILERS FOR TARGET UCAS!!! (Nothing about Granite, Fro, or Spikey
># though...:))
>
># @
># @
># @
># @
># @
># @
># @
># @
># @
># @
># @
># @
># @
># @
># @
># @
># @
># @
># @
># @
># @
># @
># @

># Wow, that is just truly hideous and foul... And gives me some GREAT ideas
># for adapting some of the older bug modules (I'm currently running Queen
># Euphoria, and plan to use some of United Brotherhood in the future...:))
>
> Yes! a chance to run _Total Eclipse_ with a new twist.........
Perhaps
>Twilight is _really_ a wasp/ant/whatever messing with Eclipse's mind. or
>Eclipse is really a 1)woman and 2)mantis shaman, and Twilight masks as a
mantid
>that got free. or something.....
>
Hehehehe.... I like it... Though I didn't like playing in it. Spiders
give me the serious creeps in RL, and I am *STILL* convinced that Spider is
nothing more than another bug, albeit one more similar to the Matids than
the "normal" bugs... But that's just me...;]

># My quotes were cool, though I only had 2, and for some reason I'm southern
># and from New Orleans... But I can live with that...;] It was still cool
># to be in the book... And they were kinda long quotes...:]:]
> You defended UCAS tho'. Perhaps I need to read it again, but I was
>under the impression you just liked N'awlins spirit or some such. I noticed
>Spike was still list.member.grumpy........
>
Well... I say "I like my southern brothers and sisters a lot and New
Orleans has to be the greatest city in the world...". This could be read a
couple of ways...

But I'll go with your theory... Bull's just relocated there and likes
it...;]:]

This is kinda amusing... Bull and Johnny are planning to buy a big boat
and become "pirates", and Mr. White and Sangre managed to make a deal for a
"Base" in New Orleans on the waterfront. This Base is a large Bar, and
will be a staging area and dock for our boat and our actibities in the
South...:]

So in essence, I'll be from new Orleans around Christmas, once Cyberpirates
and RBB2.0 comes out...:]

># That's about it. Looks like a good book over all... I look forward to
># reading the rest of it...;];]
>
> The Boston section struck me as being somewhat flat, a sort of rehash
>of other ideas. The only interesting thought was the catacombs, a sort of Ork
>Underground for everybody. Perhaps combine that with some of the X-Men story
>lines from back when I was into comic books (late eighties).
>
I liked the boston section,and it had some good points (namely the Salem
Witches and the Stock Exchange), but you''re right. It kinda had a stale
feeling to it. I think you can only make so many different cities before
they start looking the same.

Detroit was cool becuse of the stuff on Ares. More good insights on Ares,
and yet a little more on Echo Mirage (Namely the confirmation (Kind of)
that Damion Knight WAS in Echo Mirage uner a different name, aqnd they go
into what appears to be a rivalry between Dunky (When he was alive) and DK...

Chicago is the one that really interests me, as that's the one my Character
is the most involved with and interested in... With the CZ opening back
up, this leaves a lot of questions unanswered...

What happened to those bugs that have survived in the CZ despite the Strain 3?

Just how many damned bugs escaped the CZ, and where did they go? I have
the feeling we'll see another United Brotherhood type thing emerge, only
more secretive, and more localized. You'll have a similar organization in
every major city, doing sinmilar things, but under different names, and all
seemingly unconnected and unrelated to each other. that way if one is
discovered, the others won't be suspected. Maybe each "Hive" will run it's
own sect, rather than the hives cooperating like they did in UB...

What effect will Strain 3 beta have for the future? Anyone think we just
may have fragged up the Astral Plane yet again, creating yet another ay for
the Horrors or whatever to come through?

Too many questions, and too many things that will bother Bull.... A lot...;]

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 17:18:34 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Archive and Shadowlore (was Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals)
In-Reply-To: <970712113333_192599682@*******.mail.aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 11:33 7/12/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 97-07-11 01:52:12 EDT, M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk (Mark
>Steedman) writes:
>
><snipped suggestions for "taking your time spellcasting"
>> >
>> On this how many people have seen the 'gathering magic rules'?
>> Shadowlore 1 i think if memory serves which give something like this
>> though the method of achieving it is quite different.
>>
>> Mark
>
>I haven't, but then I also haven't found/read the RN archives yet either...if
>such exist...

ShadowRN and other itribe mailing list archives.
ftp to listproc.itribe.net /pub

Shadowlore 1: Check Gurths site.. http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth

-Adam

--
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
"Can I have a cup of angst to go with my un-happy meal?" -- Hi & Lois
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 19:23:34 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hello
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 06:03 PM 7/12/97 +1000, Jason & Deanna Rodhouse wrote these timeless words:
>Hello all.
>I've been lurking for awhile and decided it was about time to get off my
>fat a** and formally introduce myself. My name is Jason but you can
>call me Pilgrim after my very first character Billy Pilgrim. I've been
>playing SR for about 3-4yrs now and ever since I started I have heard
>many a fable about THE LIST and the discussions therein. Only recently
>have I acquired a computer to see what all the fuss was about. I have
>not been disappointed and look forward to the future threads(thread
>magic?:)). Anyway, cya later.
>
Hoi there, Pilgrim...

Glad to have ya aboard. I goit quite a chuckle out of the "Fabled" LIST
comment... Glad to see the list has had that much of an impact on the
world of SR...:]

Well, here's your official greet from the resident List Ork...:]

+++++ BULL-BOT ACTIVATED
+++++ AUTO GREET INITIATED

Hello there, new list-member Pilgrim! Welcome to the Shadowrn Mailing List!

It's a great place, with good people and great discussion! hope ya like mail!

+++++ AUTO OFF TOPIC RANDOM GENERATOR v3.0 INITIATED
+++++ TOPIC #022

Questions?

Call 1-216-555-3004

+++++ END AUTO GREET

<grin>

Have fun!

Bull-the-Welcome-Ork-Decker
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 17:38:20 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Hello
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970712191722.2f271d20@*****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 19:23 7/12/97 -0400, you wrote:
>+++++ AUTO OFF TOPIC RANDOM GENERATOR v3.0 INITIATED
>+++++ TOPIC #022
>
>Questions?
>
>Call 1-216-555-3004

Steve, I told you not to give out my damned number on the list!

:)

(Its not really my number, just a joke:)

Adam-who-hopes-caric-doesn't-give-it-out

--
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
"Can I have a cup of angst to go with my un-happy meal?" -- Hi & Lois
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 19:43:41 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: flood

In a message dated 97-07-12 14:39:22 EDT, yasiu@******.COM (mARCiN sERkIES)
writes:

>
> News from Poland... My city is almost flooded. Council is panickaly trying

> to save oldest part of city full of churches, museums etc... my only acces
to
> the world is internet... i can`t make outside city phone calls...
>
> But i`m goin` to play tonight... i`m crazy :)
>
>
Yasiu, you are right, you ARE nuts. The US just had its entire northern
midwest go into floodland this spring, they'll tell you, get out of town and
be safe...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 19:45:26 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Centering vs Penalties (was Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals)

In a message dated 97-07-12 16:48:28 EDT, caric@********.COM (Caric) writes:

>
> Wouldn't there have to be something there with an aura? Even if it's just
> a chair or a marble that the sammie tossed? Unless it's a DM I would say
> that there has to be some targetmore precis then just "over there."
>
> -Caric
>
>
A good point. Perhaps some sort of "generic air" ruling needs to be
determined?
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 19:47:37 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: cyberware and it's effects on the psyche and body

In a message dated 97-07-12 17:06:57 EDT, shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK (Paul
J. Adam) writes:

>
> The leviathan resumes its patrol.
>
>
And the aircraft carrier "Spudzone" moves the other way...it was in
reserve...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 19:47:17 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Heavy pistol damage
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:22:12 +0100"
<YsbkWNAkj2xzEw9Z@********.demon.co.uk>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

You wrote:
> So, yeah, those who don't shoot need a little guidance on these matters.
I think a book or two on guns might give this sort of feel for things, as
might, say an issue or two of Guns & Ammo (Dad used to subscribe, my knowledge
is eclectic, lots of different places including some shooting).
> >And where do you fall in the SR strength scale?
> Call it a 4.
Yeah, and say a .50 is prolly 5 for comfortably shooting. You might even
introduce specially gunsmithed pistols that fire really overpowered cartridges
for Orks and Trolls, since they can handle more firepower. :)

> Remember the original Smith and Wesson .357 Magnum was marketed as only
> suitable for the shooter of larger than average stature...
Which many SR char's *are*, and do need the firepower due to the prevalence of
armor among corp- and underworld types.

> I know what you mean.
> I like the feel of the SR system, because it works for how we like to
> play our games: heavy pistols are dangerous even to armoured opponents,
> SMGs and assault rifles are deadly but not _too_ deadly, and so on.

> It's not realistic, but it's playable and it's readily adapted to the
> cinematic, John Woo-style firefights we like (wish fulfilment and
> fantasy, rather than gritty reality). I can see, though, why if you
> wanted a down-and-dirty game you'd prefer something more realistic.
Yep, exactly.

losthalo, who likes it when players realize how deadly the lives their
characters lead really are
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 19:53:11 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Centering vs Penalties (was Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals)
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Sat, 12 Jul 1997 06:56:08 -0700"
<199707121424.JAA13874@********.mcit.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

You wrote:
> Wouldn't there have to be something there with an aura? Even if it's just
> a chair or a marble that the sammie tossed? Unless it's a DM I would say
> that there has to be some targetmore precis then just "over there."
If it's a physical spell, well, everything has an aura. I'd say wherever your
eyes were focused at would be the center, and it wouldn't necessarily have to
be an object. Some good control of your focal length would let you put a spell
wherever you could LOS it.

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 19:58:12 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Adult Themes (was: Mysticism; was: Bring out your...)

In a message dated 97-07-12 18:49:03 EDT, caric@********.COM (Caric) writes:

>
> K, I wouldn't worry about it too much, I don't think that Losthalo was
> offended, at least I didn't get that impression, I would hope that he
knows
> that a spell such as Orgasm is there to enrich our game world in a fun
way.
> If he doesn't agree with it that certainly his option and he should go
> with it. I personally think it's a hoot that's why I design it, but if
> noone else in the universe ever uses it then so be it, no skin off my
nose.
> As far as the adult content I think that we are all mature enough to
> handle it (even 'lil baby Fro :) , but I think this thread is pretty much
> dead anyway so it's probab;y a moot point.
>
> -Caric
>
I knew that, now where's my security blankey!!!! (noticing the typing
program is on, DAMN!!!)...okay, now to our regularly scheduled blasting...
-K

on another note, is anyone getting my ending signature? J. Keith Henry,
Ancient Runner, blah blah blah...?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 19:07:21 +1000
Reply-To: jade@***.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jason & Deanna Rodhouse <jade@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Fetish & Exclusive Spells (suggestions)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

(rummaging through closet)-"I know its in here somewhere...I really
don't want to talk abou.. Oh, there you are!(patts at large dusty bag)
Boy, I haven't used you in awhile(sound of zipper unzipping)Ack you
smell musty! Ah well, it won't be for long."(sound of rustling fur)
The Rules Monkey emerges-

On Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:29:25 -0400 J. Keith Henry wrote:

>WRONG!!! Check out the rules for creating Geasa for Physical Adepts. >If an Adept
decides to limit how a power or his magic in general >works, he gets a +25% to his
magic point total. These geasa are NOT >things that can be removed by initiation.
Awakenings and Grimoire >both have details on this. I suggest you reread things.
There ARE >bonuses guy.

Actually, the rules in Awakenings state that a geasa may be placed
upon a single power or many. The bonus this confer is a .75 percent
reduction in the cost of that ability. If the geasa is broken then that
ability will not work at all. You could take the same geasa for all your
abilities or a different geasa for each one. You can also choose to have
geasa affect only some of your abilities.
On page 114, under Removing Geasa. It states that a character may
choose to remove a geasa upon achieving a new initiate grade. However,
he must at that time be able to pay the cost difference in magic points.
If he can, then he can use the ability unrestricted. If he can't pay it
off at that time, he has to wait until he gets the karma to do so. The
PA can only shed one geasa from one power per grade of initiation. This,
of course, does not apply to a geasa as an ordeal.
As an ordeal for PAs, the geasa cannot be shed and only affects one or
more of the PA's existing powers whose total cost equals .5 magic
points. A physical magician can choose to go the above route or have it
affect all of his magical abilities(ie. spellcasting,cojuring,etc).

Whew! This monkey suit is HOT! Thanks for listening.

Pilgrim
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 19:57:07 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,or Bring out
yourSpells,Bringout your spells!!!]
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Sat, 12 Jul 1997 06:23:18 -0700"
<199707121403.KAA04336@********.mcit.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

You wrote:
> So are control thoughts, emotions, and pretty much any other mind control
> spell. I would certainly rather have an orgasm then have someone traipsing
> through my mind ala Mind Probe.
Did you hear me compare it to those others? No. I'm talking about the use of
that spell. Sure Control Thoughts, et al. are not exactly ethical (neither is
putting lead through people at sonic velocities). I just think that
deliberately humiliating someone in a way that many people feel is worse than
physical violence, shouldn't be a joke. Talking about how 'would you rather
get hurt or have an orgasm?' assumes that having an orgasm is something
everyone would prefer... you're projecting your preferences.

> | > orgasm and get tired or burn to death as your head explodes?
> |
> | That really isn't the point. 'Would you rather be raped or murdered?'
> isn't a
> | fair choice, neither is something you should do to someone, eh? Some
> people
> | view sex pretty seriously, and this would be an extreme violation, doing
> it to
> | someone against their will (as opposed to voluntarily, which is an
> original and
> | interesting idea :) is the equivalent of taking control of their most
> personal
> | thoughts and desires. Not nice.

> Actuall "would you rather be raped or mudered?" Has been answered by
> several people I know with the later quite seriously. It's not making
> anyone have sex with someone else as a controlling manipulation would, and
> it in know way takes control of any thoughts or desires...I can't see it
> being all that different from making someone wet their pants. It's a
> bodily function and one that happens to feel good.
Umm... orgasm is primarily a mental activity, contrary to popular belief. It
is not a physiological response, despite perceptions to the contrary. And just
because no physical penetration occurs doesn't make it not rape, in this
instance...
The idea of being forced ot experience and orgasm by a copmplete stranger
doesn't bother you? You can't see why it would really freak someone out?

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 20:03:31 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Changing the System (Was [SR3] Magical Magic)

In a message dated 97-07-12 19:00:14 EDT, mike.paff@*****.COM writes:

> Spell: ManaMunch
> Base Damange: D
> Base Drain: D
> Range: LOS (no drain mod)
> Type: Mana (no drain mod)
> Damage Staging: 3 (-1 Drain Category)
> Drain Staging: 2 (no drain mod)
> Final Drain: (F/2)S2
> Damage Code: (F)D3
>
> Using the standard SR II rules, if the caster gets 1 success and the
target
> gets 2, there is no effect (and I have no problem with this). The caster
> still
> must resist drain.
>
>
I am suddenly uncertain if I put forth the original idea correctly. 1
Success by the magician indicates base damage, oh I get it...that screw up in
the game staging loopholes now...okay, let's go for the gusto of it....I
think I could bend the rules a bit so that the caster had to get more
successes...oh hold on...

I get the point...it wasn't the effect I was trying to get though, I keep
forgetting a thing I use in my own house rules as well.
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 20:05:17 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Changing the System (Was [SR3] Magical Magic) Part 2

In a message dated 97-07-12 19:00:14 EDT, you write:

>
> However, a house rule that has been discussed lately would require the
> target to stage the damage all the way down to take no damage. With this
> rule, the caster would only need one success to cast the spell, and the
> target
> would need 13 successes to take no damage (1 to negate the caster's
success
> and 3 per damage category D->S->M->L->None) and the caster would face
> Serious
> drain. Using a standard damage staging of 2 and this house rule, the
target
> would need 9 successes to take no damage (1 to negate the caster's success
> and 2 per damage category D->S->M->L->None) and the caster would face
Deadly
> drain.
>
> I hope this makes my warning a little clearer.
>
> Mike Paff
>
It did, but the problem ALWAYS existed in SR concerning base damage codes of
"D", regardless of the source. Perhaps I "typod" the Damage Staging,
I'm not
certain. I guess I'm also just a bit harder on the players concerning the
creation of "D" damage spells. (shrug)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 20:07:51 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Fluffy? (Was: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,)

In a message dated 97-07-12 19:38:23 EDT, fro@***.AB.CA (Adam J) writes:

>
> Although I have met a few people online who get offended when I use 'fuck'
> during a game..
>
> -Adam
> --
>
Actually, wasn't there an Ork bodyguard in a book that said something like
"How Quaint...he said Fuck..."

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 20:12:11 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,or Bring out your Spells,Bring
out your spells
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:52:30 -0400"
<970712115229_-1393529329@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

You wrote:
> OOOHHH Big fight topic here at the home game. Responsible Magicians....that
> sounds like a flame war or worse in the making...
I'm just talking about the fact that people are treating lightly something that
to some would really mess them up. A lot of people are really sensitive about
sex, though many don't realize this. They think that everyone would rather be
having sex, because they would, and that anyone would like an orgasm 'free of
charge', and that it's just funny... If you held someone down and stimulated
them (without permission) until they had an orgasm, would it be wrong? Really
wrong? This is the same thing, you just don't have to touch them because magic
will let you do it... Someone did that to me, they'd better watch their back.

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:34:47 +0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@*****.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Mailing list Digest ?
In-Reply-To: <10459.199707122247@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>

On 12 Jul 97 at 23:47, Spike wrote:

> And it forces them to use the ol' grey matter a little....

Problem is, Spikey, his asinine spew showed that he had no grey
matter.

--

==DREKHEAD=======================================================
drekhead@***.net --- http://users.aol.com/drekhead/home.html ---
=================================================================
=================================================================
Be nice to your kids. They'll choose your nursing home.

=================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 20:57:14 -0700
Reply-To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: Centering vs Penalties (was Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> > I don't see much of a reason that visual modifiers should affect
> > spellcasting at all: the mage 'glances' into the Astral, where things
> > like smoke and glare don't exist, and locks the spell to the target.

> Yes they *do*. Vision in astral is no clearer or less obstructed than in the
> mundane world. Everything exists there visually the same as it does in this
> world. Everything has an aura, else it couldn't be affected by spells...

That would seem to raise a number of problems - the spell would have to
pass through other auras before grounding out into its target.

I see some problems with allowing glare to effect the Astral.
Everything is backlit with the glow of radiant life energy, not physical
lightbulbs; I don't have the source but I believe the commments made
where a sparse concrete cell lit by a bare bulb would appear Astrally
dark (the rare situation where visual modifiers do come into play). I
don't believe the question was ever answered, whether lasers (and,
following, floodlights) generate Elemental Light, which I might see
crossing over to Astral.

Smoke is a bit problematic, since water and fire both appear in Astral.
Treat it as individual molecules? Each 'cloud' as its own Aura? If
they are Astrally present, they can't be seen through; Astral should be
much harder to see through, than much easier.

Ahhh. This is why we want better Astral descriptions in SR3!

Getting back to the issue at hand, it's the _spell_ that does the
targeting, not the mage, and (combat) spells are assumed to hit
unerringly (otherwise everything's reduced to a DM). The _spell_
certainly doesn't worry about a bit of night-fog.

To me, it would become an either/or situation: either you can make out
the aura distinctly, or there's so much detritus in the way that the
aura is indistinguishable. But 'partly' just doesn't fit. (Or do you
only 'partly' synchronize your aura to the targets? Oh, that opens up a
box frogs....)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 21:18:31 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Fetish & Exclusive Spells (suggestions)
Comments: To: jade@***.net

In a message dated 97-07-12 20:18:02 EDT, jade@***.net (Jason & Deanna
Rodhouse) writes:

>
> Whew! This monkey suit is HOT! Thanks for listening.
>
> Pilgrim
>
>
An enchanter reaches out and hands the Monkey a banana..."Hey, you're just
some guy in musty fur !!! " (snags his hand back before the rabid nature
comes out... ;)
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 21:19:47 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,

In a message dated 97-07-12 20:23:25 EDT, u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK (Spike)
writes:

>
> True, but Blood Magic also exists in SR.
> The only types of blood magic in EarthDawn available to Player Characters
is
> OATH magic, where they swear on their blood on something.
> If they keep the Oath for a year, some bonus is gained. If they break the
> oath, they gain a permanent scar on their body (usually forehead) in the
> shape recognisable as OATHBREAKER....
>
> All nasty forms of Blood Magic are for NPC use only...
>
Unless of course the game group wants to get into the truly Gray or Shadow
areas of magic as well. Level of Game Play (NOT Wanting to starting that
argument back up again)...not with standing.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 21:24:32 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Fetish & Exclusive Spells (suggestions)

In a message dated 97-07-12 20:33:25 EDT, u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK (Spike)
writes:

>
> Don't look at *ME* like that!
> :)

Who would you like me to look at? You're prettier than the wallpaper (though
the Pathfinder Image paper I got now is pretty cool), so maybe you
aren't...(pondering with a wicked grin on his face).

>
> Look, when I GM I allow bonuses only on things like Foci/fetishes/etc.
> I don't recall seeing it anywhere in the rules stating that mages can
CHOOSE
> to have a Geas in order to gain some benefit.

Someone else jumped in on that behalf for me. And I understand the breakdown
in communication. I think it probably falls under the "Shadowrun Rules
Vagueness" thingy/stuff...

>
> Please. Before you start saying "Stop skimming the rules and read deeply",
> would you at least quote chapter and verse?

Oh, we're going to get that picky eh???? ( ;} I'm sorry, I constantly
forget that everyone doesn't remember the 'carp' like I do. Yeah okay, I've
graduated from rules lawyer to rules volume keeper here. I think it happened
about 8 years ago. Don't mean to come across as a snob or jerk. Sorry

(holds out his hand to be slapped, LIGHTLY slapped, heavier stuff turns me
on)

>
> And if it's from Awakenings, then I can't skim read it, because I don't
have
> it....
> --

ACK!!! Heathen!!! Pagan!!! You, You, NON GAMER FANATIC YOU!!! ~)

-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 01:53:14 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Heavy pistol damage
In-Reply-To: <01IL5TCUASFU9I4QDC@******.acs.muohio.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0

In message <01IL5TCUASFU9I4QDC@******.acs.muohio.edu>, "Bruce H. Nagel"
<NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU> writes
>You wrote:
>> So, yeah, those who don't shoot need a little guidance on these matters.

>I think a book or two on guns might give this sort of feel for things, as
>might, say an issue or two of Guns & Ammo (Dad used to subscribe, my knowledge
>is eclectic, lots of different places including some shooting).

Yep: but who buys Guns and Ammo? Shooters. Guess who's becoming an
endangered species here in Britain? I had to hand my pistol in last
weekend; by October pistol shooting is something that only the Army, the
police and criminals do.

It's getting hard to find even Gun Mart in newsagents here, let alone
anything more exciting.

>> >And where do you fall in the SR strength scale?
>> Call it a 4.

>Yeah, and say a .50 is prolly 5 for comfortably shooting. You might even
>introduce specially gunsmithed pistols that fire really overpowered cartridges
>for Orks and Trolls, since they can handle more firepower. :)

That's something I feel the SR system lacks. A Troll should be able to
conceal and handle - for instance - a revolver chambered for 12-gauge
shotgun ammo as easily as a burly human could manage a .44 Magnum or a
Desert Eagle.

>> Remember the original Smith and Wesson .357 Magnum was marketed as only
>> suitable for the shooter of larger than average stature...

>Which many SR char's *are*, and do need the firepower due to the prevalence of
>armor among corp- and underworld types.

No argument there, it's just jarring when you see Body 2, Strength 1
characters (a rigger) using a Ruger Super Warhawk.

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 21:29:14 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Getting Over It (was lots of flame war topic stuff)

In a message dated 97-07-12 21:01:07 EDT, chaos@*****.COM (Bull) writes:

>
> And silver? You really don;t want to start pissing off poeple like Spike.
> A) he *IS* the official list.member.grumpy for a reason, and B) He's
well
> liked by the list.
>
> Get over yourself.
>
> Bull
>
Hey guys, I started it, I said I was sorry...GEESH...Silver, thanks for
standing up to things a bit, but Bull is correct. You're comments were
enjoyed by some of us, but taken by granted as well (AOL for example gives a
listing of the mail topics, and allows for pick and choose).
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 19:18:06 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 12 Jul 1997 13:05:32 PDT."
<10315.199707122005@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>

>True, but Blood Magic also exists in SR.
>The only types of blood magic in EarthDawn available to Player Characters is
>OATH magic, where they swear on their blood on something.
>If they keep the Oath for a year, some bonus is gained. If they break the
>oath, they gain a permanent scar on their body (usually forehead) in the
>shape recognisable as OATHBREAKER....
>
>All nasty forms of Blood Magic are for NPC use only...

Actually, lots of things require characters (P and NP) to take
permanent damage.

Try telling me that's not blood magic.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 19:19:44 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.COM>
Subject: "ROFLMAOKTDATPB!!!!"? (was: Re: cyberware and it's effects on the
psyche and body )
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 12 Jul 1997 13:29:19 PDT."
<199707122029.NAA16388@****tod-101.bryant.webtv.net>

>>My god, he'll ask about grounding next...
>ROFLMAOKTDATPB!!!!!
"ROFLMAOKTDATPB!!!!"?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 19:21:04 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Skye Comstock <bilbo@****.NWLINK.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Fluffy? (Was: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,)
In-Reply-To: <970712200750_409997526@*******.mail.aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Actually, wasn't there an Ork bodyguard in a book that said something like
>"How Quaint...he said Fuck..."

Yeah... I seem to remember that. The idea that 'Fuck' just kind of
whithered away sometime during the past 50 years is a little silly,
it's not like the Crash of '29 was *that* bad. :) There are a few
novels that have characters say 'shit' and 'fuck' and I happen
to like it that way. In my games, I always say shit and fuck,
and that's just the way it is. I'm not 9 (Although some people
probably think I act like it sometimes.), so I'll continue to
use these horrible words. :)

-Skye, "Wow, that was a really wizzer job you did on the drek
eating frag-face, natch!" :P
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 19:31:15 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Fluffy? (Was: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,)
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 12 Jul 1997 17:07:51 PDT."
<970712200750_409997526@*******.mail.aol.com>

>Actually, wasn't there an Ork bodyguard in a book that said something like
>"How Quaint...he said Fuck..."

Actually, K, i think that exchange went something like:

Dirk:Get the fuck out of my apartment.
Ork(?):How quaint. You said fuck.
Dirk:How quaint. You formed a complete sentence. Get the fuck out of my aparment.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 19:30:36 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Skye Comstock <bilbo@****.NWLINK.COM>
Subject: Re: Hacking
In-Reply-To: <199707122242.QAA15314@*****.cyberport.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>The following has a slight vein of SR, and is of a subject matter
>that I'm sure many have opinions and I just wanted to hear your side.
>
>I sat down last night to browes the movie 'Hackers' and it
>got me thinking. (Big surprise!)

"Hackers" and think in the same sentence... Whoa. :) It's about
as hard as this "Paranoid Android" song on the radio...

>For one to 'hack' you need passcodes or an intricate knowledge of the
>programming language of the system. (very rudimentary thinking I know,
>but I'm trying to make a point.)

Right. (I'm not a hacker, I just know some stuff, very little,
so brush me off if you feel the need.)

>To hack into a system, you are essentially writing counter programs
>and altering present information inside the mark system.

Pretty much.

>Do then ends justify the means?

It all depends on the person...

>For all the time needed and required to obtain knowledge of a mark
>system, just to infiltrate it, isn't there an easier way of obtaining
>the goods you are trying to 'borrow'?

It's probably easier than shooting the place up and running off
with the server. :]

>Is 'hacking' a viable means of theft? Or is just easier to steal your
>brothers birth certificate, go down to the DMV with some of his mail,
>and get a drivers license with his name on it (but your picture),
>just to get a visa card that you need?

There are probably easier ways of getting 'money' than that, but
getting a Visa card doesn't exactly get me off. <g>

>And of high tech theft? With the knowledge gain through countless
>hours of self taught computer programming, wouldn't it be easier just
>to go get a job at Fujitsu and steal the info from the inside?

I basically think that most "hackers" get off on breaking the system
that they have no access to. Doing an inside job just wouldn't
take as much skill, and wouldn't be as risky. The harder the
challenge, the bigger the thrill, I would think. I happen to
get off and racing people on the streets and getting away with
it, I'm sure hackers get off just as much by breaking a system,
and getting away with it.

Hackers do it because they love it, not because it's trendy or
cool, you know. Shadowrun hackers must get an extreme rush
after whooping a piece of Black ICE or cracking a big system.

-Skye
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 00:59:54 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,or Bring out
yourSpells,Bringout your spells!
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Sat, 12 Jul 1997 10:09:17 -0700"
<199707121720.NAA05446@********.mcit.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

You wrote:
> K, I wouldn't worry about it too much, I don't think that losthalo was
> offended, at least I didn't get that impression, I would hope that he knows
> that a spell such as Orgasm is there to enrich our game world in a fun way.
> If he doesn't agree with it that certainly his option and he should go
> with it. I personally think it's a hoot that's why I design it, but if
> noone else in the universe ever uses it then so be it, no skin off my nose.
> As far as the adult content I think that we are all mature enough to
> handle it (even 'lil baby Fro :) , but I think this thread is pretty much
> dead anyway so it's probab;y a moot point.
Personally I think anyone who uses the spell carelessly should someday look up
to find a shotgun in their face... "Pretty funny, eh?" ;) ...boom...
It's the sort of revenge one of my characters would have done. Give them a
little return on their investment of time and effort, you know? Then again, I
once had a PC blow away another PC in Call of Cthulhu just because he'd decided
he wanted to become a cultist of Nyarlathotep, not because his SAN was that
low, but because he wanted personal power. :) Man, that was a fun group to
game with.

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 01:04:12 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Changing the System (Was [SR3] Magical Magic)
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Sat, 12 Jul 1997 13:21:09 -0400"
<970712132106_-392745523@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

You wrote:
> I like the design rules, they just need some more guidelines for helping in
> creating color and depth...
I know I'm stealing the saying from *somewhere*, but...
Just say no.

No complex rule-snipping and pasting, no guarding against the munchkin, just
say no. It's easy, after a while..

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 01:11:24 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Centering vs Penalties (was Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals)
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Sun, 13 Jul 1997 05:39:50 +1000"
<199707121939.FAA08637@******.its.uow.edu.au>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

You wrote:
> This is the case for grounding a spell from the astral plane, yes. However,
> it is not the case for casting an area of effect spell at targets on the
> plane that the caster is currently in.
Yes. :)

> I'm a little confused by this. If an area of effect spell is being cast at
> a group of people, then it affects each on individualy. The affect (or lack
> thereof) of the spell on one person does not change the affect of the spell
> on another. As for the requirement to see all the targets of a spell, it
> has to do with the "synchonising araus" thing - you can't affect a target
> that you cannot synchronise with (exception: DM spells).
An area effect spell is indeed cast on an area, all valid targets in that area
that the caster can see. The center merely tells where the sphere is centered,
that's all.

> Although the caster does need to see the targets of a spell to affect them,
> you bring up a good point. Since the spell caster does a quick switch to
> astral perception to synchronise auras with the target of the spell, it
> would seem logical that many of the situation modifiers (lighting in
> particular) would be irrelevent. Modifiers due to smoke, mist, or rain
> would still apply, as these distort and block vision on the astral plane the
> same as they do on the physical, however. The only real reason I can think
> of right now for still including the vision lightin modifiers in spell
> casting is that the quick action of astral perception that the spell caster
> undertakes to synchronise auras is only quick enough to synchronise auras,
> not significant enough to allow readjustment of targetting. If the
> targetting is poor, perhaps due to being unable to see that target clearly,
> then the synchronisation will also be poor.
And the fact that you must see the target *with*mundane*senses* on the physical
plane, if the target is not astral, in order to cast a spell at them. Period.
Seeing them by assensing, even though there's always light to see by in Astral,
doesn't count. Your physical eyes must see the target to form the momentary
bridge from astral to physical (completing the circuit, as it were).

> As for the requirement to "centre" spells on a target, I always used to run
> it that spells other than DMs had such a requirement. However, upon
> looking, I cannot find where I obtained this ruling from (perhaps 1st Ed?).
A tiny example on Quickening spells in Grim1 (that I think carried over to
Grim2) which mentions Rikki Ratboy Quickening a spell on a bar patron to
Quicken it to the site; a Stink spell, it was). This may be in the example not
because of something about area spells but rather a requirement for Quickening.

> Also, I cannot really see any reason that a comabt spell requires that the
> centre of its affect be a specific target of the spell. After all, its is
> just pumping energy into the auras of all targets within its area of affect
> - why should it need one at the centre?
*nod*

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 01:17:44 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Sat, 12 Jul 1997 21:05:32 +0100"
<10315.199707122005@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

You wrote:
> |You are correct in that rules notification. Which is the other reason I am
> |desirous of Earthdawn never getting a really good conversion to SR going.
> | The ED system uses blood magic of every kind I think.

> True, but Blood Magic also exists in SR.
> The only types of blood magic in EarthDawn available to Player Characters is
> OATH magic, where they swear on their blood on something.
> If they keep the Oath for a year, some bonus is gained. If they break the
> oath, they gain a permanent scar on their body (usually forehead) in the
> shape recognisable as OATHBREAKER....

Ummm, no. What about Blood Charms, and abilities from the Companion for
gaining abilities in certain Disciplines, and some spellcasting abilities, and
Strain, and... get the idea? Lots of things in ED are blood magic, it's in a
lot of different forms.

losthalo, sort-of running ED right now...
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 01:23:43 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hacking
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Sat, 12 Jul 1997 16:49:12 +0000"
<199707122242.QAA15314@*****.cyberport.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

> And of high tech theft? With the knowledge gain through countless
> hours of self taught computer programming, wouldn't it be easier just
> to go get a job at Fujitsu and steal the info from the inside?
In SR, print is nearly dead. Computers do too much to perform many kinds of
theft without knowledge of them. You can't steal cash, only valuables, etc.
Stealing important info usually means interacting with computers to some
extent.

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 01:40:22 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Heavy pistol damage
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Sun, 13 Jul 1997 01:53:14 +0100"
<SUS9eLA6bCyzEwn+@********.demon.co.uk>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

You wrote:
> >Which many SR char's *are*, and do need the firepower due to the prevalence of
> >armor among corp- and underworld types.

> No argument there, it's just jarring when you see Body 2, Strength 1
> characters (a rigger) using a Ruger Super Warhawk.

Tell him about how much he hurts his hand, let him roleplay finding a smaller,
more reasonable gun. This is a roleplaying game, the rules can't do it all.
Even Rolemaster didn't take care of everything, and it tried pretty blamed hard
to.

And if he argues 'The rules don't say I can't'... tell him to do the math. Big
people sometimes don't like the big magnums because of the kick, let alone
scrawny folks. This is really common sense, and doesn't need to be spelled out
in the rules. If the GM realizes it's silly, he lets the players know, and if
they continue packing Magnums, let them hurt their hands, suffer T# penalties,
whatever if game mechanics are the only things that move them.

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 23:49:29 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Hacking
In-Reply-To: <01IL650VZ01O9I55KP@******.acs.muohio.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:23 7/13/97 -0500, you wrote:
>In SR, print is nearly dead. Computers do too much to perform many kinds of
>theft without knowledge of them. You can't steal cash, only valuables, etc.
>Stealing important info usually means interacting with computers to some
>extent.

I would disagree with this one. I thought that the 'Paperless' office was
supposed to have already happened, but I don't see it.. My 'office', as it
is, is piled high with paper. Print outs, magazines, books, everything. I
realize the matrix is supposed to be integrated much more than todays
computer networks, but I can still see stacks of paper and books on peoples
desks.

-Aj
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 02:00:14 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Music for Shadowrun
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Dan Coffin once dared to write,

>I was listening to some of my CDs and remarking how some of the tunes =
would
>be appropriate for background use in Shadowrun games. Anyone else use =
music
>with their games?

Let's see who all follows me on all this.
Music isn't a standard practice with me so this is what the =
occasional music play could go like.

- General ambient background music -
Akira soundtrack
Bladerunner soundtrack (Vangelis version)
Crow (score)
Black Aria by Glen Danzig
Drawings of O.T. by Einstürzende Neubauten
Passion by Peter Gabriel
Interview with a Vampire soundtrack (except the last song)
Twin Peaks and Twin Peaks - Fire Walk with Me
Deep Forest by Deep Forest
Bubblegum Crisis soundtracks and any other Anime type albums

- Specific moods / more dominance for listening -
Outside by David Bowie
anything by Cabaret Voltaire
Ice T and/or Body Count
Johnny Mnemonic soundtrack
anything by Joy Division
Anything by Ministry post-Twitch (although Twitch is good too)
Mortal Kombat soundtrack
early Skinny Puppy
Crow soundtrack
anything by Nine Inch Nails
(the Quake "soundtrack" is good so I've been told)
Portishead, Tricky, or Ruby (trip-hop and such)
Prodigy, Chemical Brothers, or Orbital
Clan of Xymox by Xymox
First and Last and Always by Sisters of Mercy
Oil and Gold by Shreikback
Sex Pistols, Repo Man soundtrack, and any old school punk
Goth Box compilation from Cleopatra records is also very good

I don't know if it helped but it gives a slight insight into my music =
tastes at least. What works really does depend on your tastes. I =
always thought Happiness is a Warm Gun by the Beatles would be a good =
tune for a "Shadowrun soundtrack".

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><=
>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal =
names more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect =
themselves, they answered to another name, because if another =
discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 00:18:17 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Music for Shadowrun
In-Reply-To: <199707130600.CAA18483@*********.mindspring.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 02:00 7/13/97 -0400, you wrote:
>anything by Nine Inch Nails
> (the Quake "soundtrack" is good so I've been told)

It is, although its more generic than other NiN stuff, no lyrics besides
some screaming and stuff. Its also very long and doesn't vary much, so out
of the 70-odd minutes, you can't really discern different tracks.
Excellent stuff to play as background noise during a meet or something like
that, I would think.

I once thought of actually recording 'crowd noise', say at a food court in
a shopping mall, or something like that, but never got around to it.

-Adam
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 02:33:29 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Commlink

In a message dated 97-07-12 21:56:11 EDT, jhigham@******.STUDENT.CWRU.EDU
(Josh Higham) writes:

>
> 1) I was looking at cyber groupings offered in the NAGEE I-IV compiled
> archive, and was interested in one of the communications packages, and
> was also trying to use the info to get a better grasp on what the
> Commlink is/does. However, the essence costs for each package do not
> match up (ie the raw cost listed in parens is not what I get if I add the
> items together). Since the costs for other groups were fine, and it was
> off for every comm package, I'm wondering if there was something that I
> was missing.

I am uncertain exactly, but back when Danny wrote the first of the NAGEE's,
there was talk of comsuite package deals. It never made it to SR formal
like. I remember them well.

>
> 2) I was told that the commlink let you not use your hands (this may
> have been before I said it was cyberware, because it doesn't make sense
> in that context) and that it lets you speak subvocally, which doesn't
> make sense because at least for the telephone, it already allows
> subvocally use.

There is in the Cybertechnology book, the Cybercom, which is something that
allows for direct neural control of the cyber radio. Never mind that the
original radio was cyberware and thus a bit beyond standard hand's reach
anyway.

>
> 3) I think it might allow use of extra items (anti-jamming eq or such).
>
> Anyway, If it is ok I would like the description of the item, or some
> clear indication on how it is used in conjunction with a radio, crypto
> circuit, and scramble breaker.

Encryption adds to the "signature" of the radio frequency. Kind of like the
target number a GM gives someone for the Stealth targets. Normal radio
(unencrypted) has a signature of 0. That is the Crypto-Circuit you mention.
Scramble Breaker reduces the target number for the signature.

Another character using active skills (such as Electronics/Radio Sciences
(concentration thereof) can modify this test, making it an opposed (user vs.
user/system) test.

-Keith

(I remember Danny Stratton very well. He and I worked on a lot things
together. Compressed Fuel Tanks ... Sleepwalker Cyberware ... Engine Mods
... Essential Sorcery ... and it all predated the SR stuff ... Damn, now
those are nostalgic memories ... real tears here)

>
> Thanks.
>
>

*-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-**-
> *
> Josh Higham jxh25@**.cwru.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 02:35:04 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Fluffy? (Was: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,)

In a message dated 97-07-12 22:56:00 EDT, benjamin@*****.COM (Benjamin)
writes:

>
> Actually, K, i think that exchange went something like:
>
> Dirk:Get the fuck out of my apartment.
> Ork(?):How quaint. You said fuck.
> Dirk:How quaint. You formed a complete sentence. Get the fuck out of my
> aparment.
>
>
That's it, yeah...
-K (who's fighting back tears for something at the moment)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 23:54:11 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Fluffy? (Was: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,)
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 12 Jul 1997 23:35:04 PDT."
<970713023504_-1360089099@*******.mail.aol.com>

>> Actually, K, i think that exchange went something like:
>>
>> Dirk:Get the fuck out of my apartment.
>> Ork(?):How quaint. You said fuck.
>> Dirk:How quaint. You formed a complete sentence. Get the fuck out of my
>> aparment.
>>
>>
>That's it, yeah...
>-K (who's fighting back tears for something at the moment)

Yeah. One of my fav. SR lines ever.

-DeathHawkBlackWindIceShadow - Lurker Extrodinare!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 02:48:34 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Ripples of Rape (OT: was Bring out your spells...)

In a message dated 97-07-13 02:34:51 EDT, NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU
(Bruce H. Nagel) writes:

> Umm... orgasm is primarily a mental activity, contrary to popular belief.
> It
> is not a physiological response, despite perceptions to the contrary. And

> just
> because no physical penetration occurs doesn't make it not rape, in this
> instance...
> The idea of being forced ot experience and orgasm by a copmplete stranger
> doesn't bother you? You can't see why it would really freak someone out?
>
> losthalo
>
Okay folks, back down please. The idea of "point and blow", though humorous
in a demented sort of sense, also has it's implications to the otherwise.

I guess though that is something that most people will never have to
encounter (the magical rape anyway).

And while I'm thinking of it...Halo, Bull, guys, remember when I posted that
the conversation had long standing ripple effects in my games here? Well
behold, you are all now involved in "the ripple effect" as well.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 01:47:14 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Alternate Etiquette rules
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Well, I finally got these done up.. there's nothing earth shaking, and I
haven't written the rules for the Etiquette skill web, or the skill web
itself, but here goes. Comments and critisisms welcome and encouraged.

Revised Shadowrun Etiquette rules
---------------------------------

As written, the Shadowrun Second Edition etiquette rules are rather
confusing, and worse, flawed. Many people have differing interpretations
of these rules. These alternate rules hopefully clear up any confusion.

Current problems: etiquette requires a concentration, but has no general
skill. Characters may only have one concentration at CharGen, but does
that count for etiquette? When buying a 'new' etiquettequette skill, is it
at normal costs, or concentration costs?

Proposed changes:
The following etiquette skills are now general skills
Etiquette (Gang)
Etiquette (Street)
Etiquette (Corporate)
Etiquette (Criminal)
Etiquette (Matrix)
Etiquette (Tribal)
Etiquette (Culture)
Etiquette (Goverment)

Feel free to add or remove these as you see fit, however adding many more
can affect game balance.
These skills are raised in cost like any other general skill
"Rating * 2 = Cost"

If you are trying to raise an etiquette skill which you don't have exposure
to at the current time, the cost is "Rating * Modifier * 1.5 = Cost"

The modifier will differ if the etiquette skill is a general,
concentration, or specialization.

Example: Bluto has etiquette (Matrix):3 and wishes to raise it to 4,
however his deck is toast, so he can't be online for the next 3 weeks,
while raising the bucks for a new MCMP. He tries to keep abreast on recent
matrix events by watching matrix oriented trid shows and reading
Deckmeister magazine. He needs to spend 12 Karma to raise his skill to 4.

4 * 2 * 1.5 = 12
New Rating * General Skill Modifier * 1.5 for no exposure to etiquette
enviroment.

Basic Etiquette Skills
----------------

Gang, Matrix, Corporate, Tribal, Street, Goverment, Tribal, Culture

Etiquette (Gang): The character can function in a street or go-gang
enviroment. He can name the leaders of the main gangs in the sprawl and
knows where to find the names of the others. He knows which gang is coming
his way when he see's purple jackets and black bikes coming his way.
Concentrations: Per gang.
Examples:
Etiquette (Gang) (Red Spiders), Etiquette (Gang) Red Hot Nukes

Etiquette (Matrix): You can operate in the matrix without making an ass of
yourself. You can name important online places, personalities, and know
how to behave in those places.
Concentrations: Per location or 'other'
Examples:
Etiquette (Matrix) (Mailing lists), Etiquette (Matrix) (Neuro Blade)
Etiquette (Matrix) (Crime)

Etiquette (Corporation): You understand how the various corps work and how
they interact. You can name the big 8, some of their subsidaries, and you
know if they bow or shake hands after doing business.
Concentrations: Per corporation or facet of business.
Examples:
Etiquette (Corporation) (Ares), Etiquette (Corporation) (Overseas trade)

Etiquette (Street): You can live in the back alleys and undergrounds of
the sprawls. You understand that the street is alive and growing, and you
can adapt to it. You can track down someone who can get you a gun, and
maybe find some kindered souls to help you out.
etiquette (Street) is very close to etiquette (Gang), and etiquette
(Criminal), so they can be somewhat intertwined.
Concentrations: Per area or location. Its a more generic skill than the
other etiquettequettes, so less likely to be concentrated in.
Examples:
Etiquette (Street) (The pit), Etiquette (Street) Puyallup.

Etiquette (Criminal): You can find things on the black market, name some of
the local crime bosses, and fit in with the criminal element.
Concentrations: In criminal faction or activities.
Etiquette (Criminal) (Yakuza), Etiquette (Criminal) (BTL Smuggling)

Etiquette (Goverment): You know how the politics of a country work, and the
various parties that run in those countries. You understand party tactics,
and what it takes to get elected in a given country.
Concentrations: Per Country
Examples:
Etiquette (Goverment) (Britain)
Specializations: Per Party
Etiquette (Goverment) (Britain) (Liberals)

Etiquette (Tribal): You know a tribes various rituals, its styles of life,
the garb it wears, what it values, its enemies and friends.
Concentrations: Per tribe
Examples:
Etiquette (Tribal) (Salish Indians)

Etiquette (Culture): You know some of the cultures history. You know what
words you shouldn't say over dinner, and what they consider good food to be
eating for dinner.
Etiquette (Culture) requires a concentration in a specific culture,
however, it does not count towards the characters one concentration at
Character Generation.
Examples:
Etiquette (Culture) (Japanese), Etiquette (Culture) (American)

(I would say there is still an 'American' culture, despite the
fragmentation of the country.

-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
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=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 09:57:43 +0100
Reply-To: srcg@***********.m.eunet.de
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Hartmann <Hartmann@***********.M.EUNET.DE>
Subject: New version of my CharGen out...

the second beta of my chargen can now be downloaded...

http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/newreed/15/index.html

there you'll find links to different download-sites. At least the
american site should work!

If you haven't the full file yet, you'll have to download the full
archive first, otherwise simply download the fixpack 2 and unzip to
your srcg-directory.

bye mike
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:23:15 +0000
Reply-To: shadowrn@********.ITRIBE.NET
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <goll1@********.hab-weimar.de>
From: Raven <florian.goll@******.UNI-WEIMAR.DE>
Subject: Holidays
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970701111541.16048A-100000@********.csd.uch.gr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I have to go nomail for awhile (5-7days) 'cause I'm on holiday from
uni... have to get my 'puter home and get online again (loong time)

Raven-who-misses-his-200-mails-a-day
--Raven

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Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:32:24 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Music for Shadowrun
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970712090735.006a1c5c@******.com>
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mARCiN sERkIES said on 9:07/12 Jul 97...

> FUTURE SOUND OF LONDOS

Anyone remember The Zig & Zag Show on MTV? "Future Sound Of London
Unplugged" :)

> sometimes THE DOORS, JIMI HENDRIX
> OFFSPRING, DOG EAT DOG, SUCIDAL TENDENCIES

To stop this from being a completely wasted message, I'll add that I tend
to put on whatever is in my CD player at the time, without paing any real
attention to what's going on in the game. For that Elvis run I was
thinking about making a tape with Elvis music on it, but since we played
somewhere there was no tape recorder (my kitchen) I skipped that idea.
Apart from that, I think I don't really have any appropriate music for SR
anyway...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:32:25 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Storytelling
In-Reply-To: <199707122158.XAA24572@***.zeelandnet.nl>
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Gabriel said on 0:01/13 Jul 97...

> "I wish the Mantis spirit killed me."

EGMLOL! Now I just _have_ to make this come true... :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:32:24 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Spell types (was Re: Centering vs Penalties)
In-Reply-To: <199707121424.JAA13874@********.mcit.com>
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Caric said on 6:56/12 Jul 97...

> Wouldn't there have to be something there with an aura? Even if it's just
> a chair or a marble that the sammie tossed? Unless it's a DM I would say
> that there has to be some targetmore precis then just "over there."

Why does everyone treat SR magic as having spells and damaging
manipulations?

SR rulebooks don't, AFAIK, say anything about having to have a target on
which an area-effect spell must be centered, and I allow any spell,
including combat spells, to be aimed at a point in space.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:32:24 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals
In-Reply-To: <970712113333_192599682@*******.mail.aol.com>
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J. Keith Henry said on 11:33/12 Jul 97...

> I haven't, but then I also haven't found/read the RN archives yet either...if
> such exist...

FTP to listproc.itribe.net and browse around a bit, AFAIK all the logs are
there, even going back to the early days of the list.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:32:24 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Optional Metatypes, part 3: Sasquatch
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J. Keith Henry said on 12:26/12 Jul 97...

> Anyway, perhaps it's part of the mental framework of the Sasquoi, they can
> communicate and use language, but they consider "vocal language" to be a
> mimicry and not -REAL- communication, which comes from other sources. The
> difference between "chatter" and "true comprehension."

That could be a possibility, but it appears strange to me that they'd
rather learn sign language than simply mimic humans when there is a need
to communicate between a sasquatch and a human. IMHO they'd likely also
have a superiority complex when it comes to humans, and that in turn would
make it unlikely sasquatches would go and be employed in the entertainment
industry.

Also, if this is the case then it reeks of Star Trek where everyone of a
certain race/species has the same habits and customs... There'd _have_to
be some sasquatches who don't feel it beneath themselves to use their
voices when talking with humans.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:32:24 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: France in 205x
In-Reply-To: <199707122101.OAA05199@*****.u.washington.edu>
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The Spaceman said on 14:01/12 Jul 97...

> I'm going to be running an SR event at Dragonflight[1] this year, and
> it involves a resurrection of the Beaujolais Nouveau races. I need info
> on what France is like in 205x, as FASA doesn't seem to have published a France
> sourcebook, or even a Neo-Anarchist's guide to Europe. Has France balkanized
> like Germany and Italy? If unified, what sort of government is there? Lots
> of meta prejudice? relatively progressive race wise but rabidly anti-non-
> French?

Southern France has splintered (that's all the info we have on France,
IIRC), while I imagine the rest of the country is more or less in the same
state it is now, except maybe a bit worse. Come to think of it, possibly a
lot worse now it's lost the income from the billions of tourists that go
to the south every year...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:32:24 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Storytelling
In-Reply-To: <199707121504.KAA16996@********.mcit.com>
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Caric said on 7:18/12 Jul 97...

> | I even did this for a fight between a PC and a mantis spirit. We'd
> | stopped the last session just before the fight, and went on there. In the
> | meantime I'd decided the PC would get killed if we handled this as a
> | straight BTB fight, so we turned to a more cinematic style; no initiative
> | rolls, mostly descriptions of actions and what was going on, plus the
> | occasional attack test for either side. Hey, I wanted the PC to survive
> | (guess that doesn't make me much of an evil GM, does it? :)
>
> I guess that depends on if you left him alive so that you could rip his arm
> of with an elevator later or not.

I wanted him alive else there'd be nobody to take Anne Penchyk out of the
CZ (and don't go into more detail about this without spoiler spaces,
okay?).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:32:24 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Hacking
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970712234929.006e334c@****.lis.ab.ca>
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Adam J said on 23:49/12 Jul 97...

> I would disagree with this one. I thought that the 'Paperless' office was
> supposed to have already happened, but I don't see it.. My 'office', as it
> is, is piled high with paper. Print outs, magazines, books, everything.

The "paperless office" was a prediction from the (early?) '80s, but it's
turned out that if you give people access to an easy means of
typing and editing text (a word processor) and a printer, they'll make
print-outs of everything...

> I realize the matrix is supposed to be integrated much more than todays
> computer networks, but I can still see stacks of paper and books on
> peoples desks.

Me too... The way I see it, people like to be able to take hold of
something they're reading, not having to push buttons or move a mouse.
Plus of course you can read those print-outs on the train home without
having to boot up a notebook, if you can afford one that is.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:32:24 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: SR I question
In-Reply-To: <199707121925.FAA07978@******.its.uow.edu.au>
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Damion Milliken said on 5:25/13 Jul 97...

Finally read up on that backlog, eh? :)

> PS: Greetings to all, I hear that 3rd Ed is in the works and suggestions are
> requested? True? Any special place to send them, and any particular
> requirements for submissions and suggestions?

Steve Kenson asked for ideas on the list, which naturally got totally out
of hand...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
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=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:07:27 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Centering vs Penalties (was Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals)
In-Reply-To: <970712194525_1142371653@*******.mail.aol.com> from "J. Keith
Henry" at Jul 12, 97 07:45:26 pm
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|A good point. Perhaps some sort of "generic air" ruling needs to be
|determined?
|-K
|

I'll target that microbe.....
:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:12:23 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Mailing list Digest ?
In-Reply-To: <199707130038.AAA126144@****.ibm.net> from "Drekhead" at Jul
13,
97 08:34:47 pm
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|
|On 12 Jul 97 at 23:47, Spike wrote:
|
|> And it forces them to use the ol' grey matter a little....
|
|Problem is, Spikey, his asinine spew showed that he had no grey
|matter.

Possibly a little....
It's our job to help him exercise what little he might have, in order for it
to grow....

:)

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 07:03:54 -0700
Reply-To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: Hacking
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> >For one to 'hack' you need passcodes or an intricate knowledge of the
> >programming language of the system. (very rudimentary thinking I know,
> >but I'm trying to make a point.)

Not necessarily always intricate. 'Denial of service' attacks systems
that freeze out users after their password incorrectly x number fo
times; all you need is that particular phone number and a wardialer. Of
course, it's also chaotic, and not good in the long-term interest...

> >To hack into a system, you are essentially writing counter programs
> >and altering present information inside the mark system.

Or, use existing programs on the inside to access/edit data, or just
browse without altering. ("Real" hackers, whoever they are, get upset
when you say hackers alter stuff, since that's cracking, not hacking.)

> >For all the time needed and required to obtain knowledge of a mark
> >system, just to infiltrate it, isn't there an easier way of obtaining
> >the goods you are trying to 'borrow'?

It's not like people just sit around eighteen hours a day doing 'normal'
stuff (eating, sleeping, jogging the dog) and then suddenly turn into
Matrix berserkers. You have to live and breathe this stuff. I see most
of a decker's time being taken up browsing through sleazy BBSes,
attending EFF meetings (g), that sort of thing. It's why there's a
Matrix Etiquette, y'know - completely different from Street Etiquette.

> >Is 'hacking' a viable means of theft? Or is just easier to steal your
> >brothers birth certificate, go down to the DMV with some of his mail,
> >and get a drivers license with his name on it (but your picture),
> >just to get a visa card that you need?

...Which is, in itself, a hack on the system. But rather than
manipulate the computers directly, you manipulate the people operating
the computers.

> >And of high tech theft? With the knowledge gain through countless
> >hours of self taught computer programming, wouldn't it be easier just
> >to go get a job at Fujitsu and steal the info from the inside?

Isn't it easier to get a job at Fujitsu and retire from the biz? :)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:19:02 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,
In-Reply-To: <199707130218.TAA27851@****.parc.xerox.com> from "Benjamin"
at
Jul 12, 97 07:18:06 pm
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|Actually, lots of things require characters (P and NP) to take
|permanent damage.
|
|Try telling me that's not blood magic.
|

OK, so, there are a few Magic Items that can be regarded as Blood Magic,
like the Blood Pebble armour and the astral eye, etc, etc...

The point is, it's a voluntary sacrifice on the part of the character.

Evil blood magic is the involuntary sacrifice type of magic....
(And the type that draws the Horrors)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:21:09 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Fluffy? (Was: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,)
In-Reply-To: <v03007802afedf9948ddf@[206.129.19.53]> from "Skye Comstock"
at
Jul 12, 97 07:21:04 pm
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|
|>Actually, wasn't there an Ork bodyguard in a book that said something like
|>"How Quaint...he said Fuck..."
|
|Yeah... I seem to remember that. The idea that 'Fuck' just kind of
|whithered away sometime during the past 50 years is a little silly,
|it's not like the Crash of '29 was *that* bad. :)

The point is, 20 years ago, words like SOD and BUGGER were unacceptable.
Who's to say that 'Fuck' won't have lost all power to offend by then?
(And what's the use of a good swear word if it doesn't have some power
behind it?)

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:25:35 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,
In-Reply-To: <01IL64SOA6PA9I55KP@******.acs.muohio.edu> from "Bruce H.
Nagel"
at Jul 13, 97 01:17:44 am
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|Ummm, no. What about Blood Charms, and abilities from the Companion for
|gaining abilities in certain Disciplines, and some spellcasting abilities, and
|Strain, and... get the idea? Lots of things in ED are blood magic, it's in a
|lot of different forms.

I'd hardly call Strain "Blood Magic".
If that were so, every mage who ever cast a spell or summoned a spirit was
playing with Blood Magic.

Strain is much closer to drain than anything else....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 01:58:35 -1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "... ..." <Brother-1@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Hacking
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
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MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV)

>You can't steal cash...
I think this is a bit on the wrong side. Cash is used in some places
still. It's not all credsticks.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 08:05:37 -0700
Reply-To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Astral... (was Re: Centering vs Penalties (was Re: [SR3] Spell
Rituals)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> > I'm a little confused by this. If an area of effect spell is being cast at
> > a group of people, then it affects each on individualy. The affect (or lack
> > thereof) of the spell on one person does not change the affect of the spell
> > on another. As for the requirement to see all the targets of a spell, it
> > has to do with the "synchonising araus" thing - you can't affect a
target
> > that you cannot synchronise with (exception: DM spells).

> An area effect spell is indeed cast on an area, all valid targets in that area
> that the caster can see. The center merely tells where the sphere is centered,
> that's all.

...Which yields two types of combat spells: the 'bolts, where the caster
has to synch aura, and the 'balls, where synching doesn't (?) have to
occur.

> > As for the requirement to "centre" spells on a target, I always used
to run
> > it that spells other than DMs had such a requirement. However, upon
> > looking, I cannot find where I obtained this ruling from (perhaps 1st Ed?).

> A tiny example on Quickening spells in Grim1 (that I think carried over to
> Grim2) which mentions Rikki Ratboy Quickening a spell on a bar patron to
> Quicken it to the site; a Stink spell, it was). This may be in the example not
> because of something about area spells but rather a requirement for Quickening.

p. 45 of the New Grimoire. The spell is Quickened to the Armadillo Bar,
*not* a particular patron. Stink is an Illusion; it does not need an
aura to latch onto as a combat spell does.

> > Also, I cannot really see any reason that a comabt spell requires that the
> > centre of its affect be a specific target of the spell. After all, its is
> > just pumping energy into the auras of all targets within its area of affect
> > - why should it need one at the centre?

This has a dangerous conclusion: The mage does .not. have to synch
auras in 'ball spells, he just points and shoots. He should, then, be
able to 'ball people in range of the spell but not visible to him
visually or Astrally; the equivalent of tossing a grenade. Obviously,
he has to intuit that a person is there....

> losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 02:11:52 -1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "... ..." <Brother-1@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: "ROFLMAOKTDATPB!!!!"? (was: Re: cyberware and it's effects on
the psyche and body )
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
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MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV)

>ROFLMAOKTDATPB?
Rolling On The Floor Laughing My Ass Off, Kicking The Dog And Tossing
Peanut Butter.
I'm known for my eccentricities in over 7 states and at least 5
countries. All though I'll wager it's only one or two people in any of
these places that actually know me, that's where they're at.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 08:14:10 -0700
Reply-To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: Centering vs Penalties (was Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> I think you are seeing the Astral as this place that only reflects magical
> things (the four elements, etc.). Not only does this hold too closely to

I think I was reading the SRII description of Astral at the time. :)

> Hermetism, but it doesn't follow what I've read in every SR supplement I've
> seen on magic. In the Etheric Astral (the one corresponding to our world in
> location) everything is seen there the same except for print (which is
> obscured, unreadable, except for some feel for its emotional content). If
> there's a rock or a signpost there, it's there in Astral as well. Period. It
> doesn't have to be magical or alive to be seen in the astral, or to give vision
> modifiers, it's just not material (you can pass through it like a ghost).
> Smoke obscures, fire produces light, etc. The only differences are 1)
> everything has an aura as well attached to it and 2) the natural earth,
> considered a living thing, sheds light as all living things in Astral do.

On the other hand, the color traffic lights emit, the screen on computer
monitors, and neon lighting are all munged, since information can't be
read off of them. So (to be argumentative) they emit light into Astral
normally, but it isn't perceived correctly?
Eh?

> > Ahhh. This is why we want better Astral descriptions in SR3!

> They've always made sense to me, I don't see why everyone complains so much. I
> think they read too much into it or bring their own ideas in and add them.

If 'everyone' complains, then they should be made clearer. The needs of
the many...

> > Getting back to the issue at hand, it's the _spell_ that does the
> > targeting, not the mage, and (combat) spells are assumed to hit
> > unerringly (otherwise everything's reduced to a DM). The _spell_
> > certainly doesn't worry about a bit of night-fog.

> It does if the mage cannot see the target well enough to 'synchronize' the
> astral-to-physical bridge to get the spell to work. The magician, not the
> spell, targets; he does this by perceiving both astral and physical together
> for a split second (as with usual assensing) and aligning magical energy with
> the aura of the target and letting it 'drain through into the target's physical
> self. Make sense (hope that was clear)?

Yes; I was on a beeline to the point made below.

> > To me, it would become an either/or situation: either you can make out
> > the aura distinctly, or there's so much detritus in the way that the
> > aura is indistinguishable. But 'partly' just doesn't fit. (Or do you
> > only 'partly' synchronize your aura to the targets? Oh, that opens up a
> > box frogs....)

> I agree. I don't see why vision mods should affect combat spells, was only
> recently informed that they did and did a double-take, tried to figure out why.
> I think the 'why' is game balance...

It does make life more interesting.

> losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 13:15:54 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: "ROFLMAOKTDATPB!!!!"? (was: Re: cyberware and it's effects on
In-Reply-To: <199707131211.FAA19460@****tod-101.bryant.webtv.net> from "...
..." at Jul 13, 97 02:11:52 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|
|>ROFLMAOKTDATPB?
^

|Rolling On The Floor Laughing My Ass Off, Kicking The Dog And Tossing
|Peanut Butter.
|I'm known for my eccentricities in over 7 states and at least 5
|countries. All though I'll wager it's only one or two people in any of
|these places that actually know me, that's where they're at.
|

You missed out a 'T'... Should be ROTFLMAOKTDATPB......
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 08:40:55 -0700
Reply-To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: Astral... (was Re: Centering vs Penalties (was Re: [SR3]
Spell
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> |This has a dangerous conclusion: The mage does .not. have to synch
> |auras in 'ball spells, he just points and shoots. He should, then, be
> |able to 'ball people in range of the spell but not visible to him
> |visually or Astrally; the equivalent of tossing a grenade. Obviously,
> |he has to intuit that a person is there....

> I'm afraid you're wrong there....
> Ball spells only EVER hit people in line of sight.
> If someone is in the centre of the effect, but totally hidden behind a
> pillar, he escapes the effect....
> ALL victims of combat spells MUST be in LOS, period.

Read the conclusions that I was drawing on, Spike, before dissenting.
If synching is not a part of area-effect spells, then every valid target
within the area gets spelled. The caster would have to see the center
of the spell radius, yes. The spell travels to that location and
explodes outward; anyone within its area is then within LOS... of the
spell.

Off-thread: Via Masking, you can change the perception of your Aura.
Shouldn't this, then, add to the difficulty of someone trying to
manabolt you? (They see an Aura, but it's not your true Aura.)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 13:38:39 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Heavy pistol damage
In-Reply-To: <01IL65NPTQPG9I55KP@******.acs.muohio.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0

In message <01IL65NPTQPG9I55KP@******.acs.muohio.edu>, "Bruce H. Nagel"
<NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU> writes
>You wrote:
>> >Which many SR char's *are*, and do need the firepower due to the prevalence
>of
>> >armor among corp- and underworld types.
>
>> No argument there, it's just jarring when you see Body 2, Strength 1
>> characters (a rigger) using a Ruger Super Warhawk.
>
>Tell him about how much he hurts his hand, let him roleplay finding a smaller,
>more reasonable gun. This is a roleplaying game, the rules can't do it all.
>Even Rolemaster didn't take care of everything, and it tried pretty blamed hard
>to.

I'm not asking for set-in-stone mechanics (though I did once tinker with
a simple Power - versus - Strength TN table), just more clarification in
the rules that some of these things _hurt_. I wasn't GMing that game:
the GM didn't know much about guns: and the response was "but if there
was a problem it would say so somewhere..."

>And if he argues 'The rules don't say I can't'... tell him to do the math. Big
>people sometimes don't like the big magnums because of the kick, let alone
>scrawny folks. This is really common sense, and doesn't need to be spelled out
>in the rules. If the GM realizes it's silly, he lets the players know, and if
>they continue packing Magnums, let them hurt their hands, suffer T# penalties,
>whatever if game mechanics are the only things that move them.

Again, the problem is it requires the GM to know something about
firearms, preferably to have shot a little. If he knows all he knows
from movies, then you can rapid-fire a Desert Eagle in each hand without
apparent discomfort :)

Common sense needs a certain minimum of experience to base it on, and
not all players and GMs - especially outside the US - have that
experience.

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 10:42:04 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Music for Shadowrun
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Adam J once dared to write,

<about Trent Reznor's Quake soundtrack>
>Excellent stuff to play as background noise during a meet or something like
>that, I would think.

Which is why I mentioned it.

>I once thought of actually recording 'crowd noise', say at a food court in
>a shopping mall, or something like that, but never got around to it.

Look around the various artist section to find the sound samplers.
The tracks won't be that long but you will have a lot of them on one CD.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 01:24:19 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Damion Milliken <milko@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Area of Effect Spells and Astral Targeting
In-Reply-To: <01IL64Q24ZQ89I55KP@******.acs.muohio.edu> from "Bruce H.
Nagel"
at "Jul 13, 97 01:11:24 am"
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Matb writes:

> > Yes they *do*. Vision in astral is no clearer or less obstructed than
> > in the mundane world. Everything exists there visually the same as it
> > does in this world. Everything has an aura, else it couldn't be
> > affected by spells...

Yes.

> That would seem to raise a number of problems - the spell would have to
> pass through other auras before grounding out into its target.

This is true, however those auras will either be those of inanimate objects
(dust particles for example) which are too small to be observed with the
naked eye, and thus do not block vision, astral or otherwise, or really
small living beings... I do not want to get into the mechanics of casting
spells through tiny bacteria (you all know why), other than to say
"obviously it can be done - look at the SR rules".

> I see some problems with allowing glare to effect the Astral.
> Everything is backlit with the glow of radiant life energy, not physical
> lightbulbs; I don't have the source but I believe the commments made
> where a sparse concrete cell lit by a bare bulb would appear Astrally
> dark (the rare situation where visual modifiers do come into play). I
> don't believe the question was ever answered, whether lasers (and,
> following, floodlights) generate Elemental Light, which I might see
> crossing over to Astral.

I agree with you here, and as for the Elemental light, I also do not know.

> Smoke is a bit problematic, since water and fire both appear in Astral.
> Treat it as individual molecules? Each 'cloud' as its own Aura? If
> they are Astrally present, they can't be seen through; Astral should be
> much harder to see through, than much easier.

Smoke and other inanimate objects such as mist, rain, snow, and so on should
give the same vision modifiers to astral sight as to normal vision. They,
like all other inanimate objects (such as walls) still appear on the astral
plane and thus block vision, but do not block astral movement. Thus if the
smoke (or whatever) were thick enough to block vision completely, then it
would stop the synchronisation of auras. However, if it were thin, then the
auras of the spell caster and target could still be synchronised (all be it
not as well), and the smoke wouldn't block the passage of the spell to the
target.

> Ahhh. This is why we want better Astral descriptions in SR3!

It isn't all that bad as it is now, but a few clarifications certainly
wouldn't hurt.

> Getting back to the issue at hand, it's the _spell_ that does the
> targeting, not the mage, and (combat) spells are assumed to hit
> unerringly (otherwise everything's reduced to a DM). The _spell_
> certainly doesn't worry about a bit of night-fog.

Hmmm, I'd not say that myself. The spell just goes where the caster targets
it. Like a gun really. You "point and shoot". In terms of a spell, the
"pointing" is the synchronising of auras between the caster and target.
Also, combat spells do not always hit unerringly, as the caster may cast the
spell and achieve zero successes - a miss.

> To me, it would become an either/or situation: either you can make out
> the aura distinctly, or there's so much detritus in the way that the
> aura is indistinguishable. But 'partly' just doesn't fit. (Or do you
> only 'partly' synchronize your aura to the targets? Oh, that opens up a
> box frogs....)

I don't think so, myself. To me a partial synchronisation is perfectly
possible. Think of synchronising like plugging 100 switchbox plugs into 100
switchbox sockets that are randomly ordered on a wall. If you have a clear
LOS to the wall, you can easily plug in all the plugs. If there is a
billowing cloud of smoke between you and the wall, then you'll only be able
to see a certain number of the sockets. Then think of a spell as a power
surge down the switchbox plug lines to affect the target (the wall). If
only half as many plugs are plugged, then the overall affect is lesser than
if they were all plugged. Thats how I view it, anyway.

> > An area effect spell is indeed cast on an area, all valid targets in that
> > area that the caster can see. The center merely tells where the sphere is
> > centered, that's all.
>
> ...Which yields two types of combat spells: the 'bolts, where the caster
> has to synch aura, and the 'balls, where synching doesn't (?) have to
> occur.

Um, not that I interpret, no. An AOE spell is just the same as a singularly
targeted spell. The caster synchronises his aura with that of the target,
then pumps astral energy into the target. The difference being that an AOE
spell is doing the same thing to every target within a certain area. If the
synchronisation cannot occur, then the spell will not affect that target
(for example, if the target is out of LOS, of sufficiently obscured that the
caster rolls no successes). Obviously, the area of effect limits the
targets that can be affected by the spell - those outside it are not
affected.

> > A tiny example on Quickening spells in Grim1 (that I think carried over
> > to Grim2) which mentions Rikki Ratboy Quickening a spell on a bar patron
> > to Quicken it to the site; a Stink spell, it was). This may be in the
> > example not because of something about area spells but rather a
> > requirement for Quickening.
>
> p. 45 of the New Grimoire. The spell is Quickened to the Armadillo Bar,
> *not* a particular patron. Stink is an Illusion; it does not need an
> aura to latch onto as a combat spell does.

The "New Grimythingy"? I've got "The Grimoire: The Manual of Practical
Thaumaturgy 15th Edition, 2053", which is the Grimythingy for 2nd Ed SR, and
mines the 1st printing. It includes, on page 45, an example of Rikki Ratboy
casting a stink spell into the Armadillo. In the example, Rikki centres the
spell on a guy in the bar who happens to have a Willpower of 6. This target
number is used to determine the success or failure of Rikki's spell. I
believe that the example is incorrect in its execution of the game
mechanics, however, in that the spell does not need to be centered, and the
resolution of the spell is made individually for each person within its AOE
(using the single dice roll the caster made).

> This has a dangerous conclusion: The mage does .not. have to synch
> auras in 'ball spells, he just points and shoots. He should, then, be
> able to 'ball people in range of the spell but not visible to him
> visually or Astrally; the equivalent of tossing a grenade. Obviously,
> he has to intuit that a person is there....

I don't think so - look at my synchronising arguments above.

> > <Snip accurate description of the astral plane mirroring the physical>
>
> On the other hand, the color traffic lights emit, the screen on computer
> monitors, and neon lighting are all munged, since information can't be
> read off of them. So (to be argumentative) they emit light into Astral
> normally, but it isn't perceived correctly?

Hmmm, interesting point. I was under the impression that light on the
astral plane is not as we know it on the physical plane. Just that the
emmisions from auras of living beings, the interactions of these emmisions
and inanimate objects, and the perception of these emmisions by those with
astral perception are analogous to light and vision in the physical plane.
I always thought that objects that emmitted light on the physical plane did
not do anything special on the astral plane, but living beings emmitted the
astral equivalent of "light". Thus traffic lights appear the same no matter
what colour they are, and computer screens are impossible to read at all.

> > I agree. I don't see why vision mods should affect combat spells, was
> > only recently informed that they did and did a double-take, tried to
> > figure out why. I think the 'why' is game balance...
>
> It does make life more interesting.

This reminds me of the shaman in my group the other day, his quote went
something like "I need twos!? We should do shadowruns in the daytime more
often!"

> Off-thread: Via Masking, you can change the perception of your Aura.
> Shouldn't this, then, add to the difficulty of someone trying to
> manabolt you? (They see an Aura, but it's not your true Aura.)

But it is intrinsically and inexorably linked to your true aura, so if they
affect the "fake" aura, it'll pass right along to you.

Bruce H. Nagel writes:

> And the fact that you must see the target *with*mundane*senses* on the
> physical plane, if the target is not astral, in order to cast a spell at
> them. Period. Seeing them by assensing, even though there's always light
> to see by in Astral, doesn't count. Your physical eyes must see the target
> to form the momentary bridge from astral to physical (completing the
> circuit, as it were).

Yes, this makes sense. Upon reading the description of astral perception,
we see that it states "When perceiving astrally, the magician's senses are
focused on the astral plane. Purely phsyical things are visible only by
their astral echo, making interaction with the physical world very
difficult." To me this indicates that an astrally peceiving magician can
only cast spells at astrally present targets. OTOH, a magician who is not
astrally peceiving may cast spells are purely physical targets, but also
must abide by the conditions on the physical plane at the time of casting.

Thus vision modifiers are applicable to spellcasting.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: milko@***.edu.au
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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 01:27:31 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Damion Milliken <milko@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: SR I question
In-Reply-To: <199707131031.MAA19052@**********.xs4all.nl> from Gurth at "Jul
13, 97 12:32:24 pm"
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Gurth writes:

> Finally read up on that backlog, eh? :)

Unfortunately, no - I decided that lurking was boring (I was reading all
these cool threads that I wanted to post comments about, but couldn't since
they were from October last year... :-)).

> Steve Kenson asked for ideas on the list, which naturally got totally out
> of hand...

I hope he's got a lot of time to collate all of the suggestions he'll get.
I've got some 30 points to bring up... Do people think it would be better
to:

a) Send such suggestions directly to Steve?
b) Post suggestions collated in one big message so that those who couldn't
care less can nuke them easily?
c) Post suggestions individually so that they can be discussed by the list?

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: milko@***.edu.au
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=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 11:35:16 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Storytelling
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At 12:32 PM 7/13/97 +0100, Gurth wrote these timeless words:
>Gabriel said on 0:01/13 Jul 97...
>
>> "I wish the Mantis spirit killed me."
>
>EGMLOL! Now I just _have_ to make this come true... :)
>
Hey gabe... Got a better Idea for ya...

Try marrying one...

<big Grin>

It get's interesting. If my partner Johnny 99 had compy access, he could
certainly attest to that...;];];];];];];];];];]

Bull-the-gugin'-Ork-Decker
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:14:34 +0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@*****.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Hacking
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970712234929.006e334c@****.lis.ab.ca>

On 12 Jul 97 at 23:49, Adam J wrote:

> I would disagree with this one. I thought that the 'Paperless'
> office was supposed to have already happened, but I don't see it..
> My 'office', as it is, is piled high with paper. Print outs,
> magazines, books, everything. I realize the matrix is supposed to
> be integrated much more than todays computer networks, but I can
> still see stacks of paper and books on peoples desks.

Absolutely. Management would not be able to function without their
pounds and pounds of hardcopy.

--

==DREKHEAD=======================================================
drekhead@***.net --- http://users.aol.com/drekhead/home.html ---
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Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:17:41 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,or Bring out
yourSpells,Bringout your spells!

In a message dated 97-07-13 05:18:35 EDT, NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU
(Bruce H. Nagel) writes:

> Personally I think anyone who uses the spell carelessly should someday look

> up
> to find a shotgun in their face... "Pretty funny, eh?" ;) ...boom...
> It's the sort of revenge one of my characters would have done. Give them
a
> little return on their investment of time and effort, you know? Then
again,
> I
> once had a PC blow away another PC in Call of Cthulhu just because he'd
> decided
> he wanted to become a cultist of Nyarlathotep, not because his SAN was
that
> low, but because he wanted personal power. :) Man, that was a fun group
to
> game with.
>
> losthalo
>
>
Don't take this the wrong way Halo, but I think I finally figured out your
"nickname" of "losthalo". Fallen Angel indeed. ;]
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:20:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Spell types (was Re: Centering vs Penalties)

In a message dated 97-07-13 06:33:29 EDT, gurth@******.NL (Gurth) writes:

>
> SR rulebooks don't, AFAIK, say anything about having to have a target on
> which an area-effect spell must be centered, and I allow any spell,
> including combat spells, to be aimed at a point in space.
>
> -
Then I really hope you also allow for those people caught in the area effect
of such spells to have access to their armor for resisting the damage.
"Ground" is a target 3 or 4 in the book, sidewalk is a bit
higher...etcetera. That could stage up the damage really, bloodily, fast.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:24:53 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Centering vs Penalties (was Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals)

In a message dated 97-07-13 07:08:56 EDT, u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK (Spike)
writes:

>
> I'll target that microbe.....
> :)
>
Okay, here's an image for everyone...Mage #1 walks around with a massively
expensive looking set of ray bans (super powered microscope under a physical
mask spell, never mind the power concept)...

-or-

Mage #2 walks around with a funny "Klink Monacle" in his eye (with the
Detection Spell- View Microbial Lifeforms, anchored/quickened to it).

And yeah, I've seen it done. We've got a player here who got into cybertech
as a player, went about developing spells like "Analyze DNA" and "Formulate
Blood Type" for detection spells, based off the "Analyze Object" and
"Catalog" spells.

-keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:27:06 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,

In a message dated 97-07-13 07:20:20 EDT, u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK (Spike)
writes:

>
> The point is, it's a voluntary sacrifice on the part of the character.

So if a player character were to get into the "Voluntary Blood Magic" stuff,
it wouldn't be evil? That is kind of the "thread" I was looking for.

>
> Evil blood magic is the involuntary sacrifice type of magic....
> (And the type that draws the Horrors)

WRONG!!! the Great Ghost Dance wasn't truly evil (end justifying the means
and all) and was completely voluntary on the part of the dancers. It got
their attention. Of course, so did the Sears Tower Incident...
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:32:43 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Optional Metatypes, part 3: Sasquatch

In a message dated 97-07-13 10:05:44 EDT, gurth@******.NL (Gurth) writes:

>
> That could be a possibility, but it appears strange to me that they'd
> rather learn sign language than simply mimic humans when there is a need
> to communicate between a sasquatch and a human. IMHO they'd likely also
> have a superiority complex when it comes to humans, and that in turn would
> make it unlikely sasquatches would go and be employed in the entertainment
> industry.

Unless...(see below)

> > Also, if this is the case then it reeks of Star Trek where everyone of
a
> certain race/species has the same habits and customs... There'd _have_to
> be some sasquatches who don't feel it beneath themselves to use their
> voices when talking with humans.

... there are -always- exceptions to any rule. I don't know really why
Sasquoi are non-vocal speach types, but they are. I agree, it seems kind of
stupid at times, but that stupid is what I like to analyze and find the
intelligence that once stood behind it.

-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:35:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral... (was Re: Centering vs Penalties (was Re: [SR3] Spell
Comments: To: mbreton@**.netcom.com

In a message dated 97-07-13 10:28:52 EDT, mbreton@**.netcom.com (Matb)
writes:

>
> Read the conclusions that I was drawing on, Spike, before dissenting.
> If synching is not a part of area-effect spells, then every valid target
> within the area gets spelled. The caster would have to see the center
> of the spell radius, yes. The spell travels to that location and
> explodes outward; anyone within its area is then within LOS... of the
> spell.

There is one argument I can find on this...an area spell "blasts inward" from
the outer perimeter of it's area, not outward from it's source. I agree with
what you are saying Matt, I just wish it were explained better.

> Off-thread: Via Masking, you can change the perception of your Aura.
> Shouldn't this, then, add to the difficulty of someone trying to
> manabolt you? (They see an Aura, but it's not your true Aura.)

IF you go into a concentrated/active Masking usage. Otherwise, the aura,
though masked, is still present to certain degrees, even if it isn't your
"real aura".

-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:38:05 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Area of Effect Spells and Astral Targeting

In a message dated 97-07-13 11:25:42 EDT, milko@***.EDU.AU (Damion Milliken)
writes:

> > I see some problems with allowing glare to effect the Astral.
> > Everything is backlit with the glow of radiant life energy, not physical
> > lightbulbs; I don't have the source but I believe the commments made
> > where a sparse concrete cell lit by a bare bulb would appear Astrally
> > dark (the rare situation where visual modifiers do come into play). I
> > don't believe the question was ever answered, whether lasers (and,
> > following, floodlights) generate Elemental Light, which I might see
> > crossing over to Astral.
>
> I agree with you here, and as for the Elemental light, I also do not know.
>
>
Okay, this is a beeper here...on Matt's behalf...the light from a stoplight
is -NOT-, please read this, is -NOT- Elemental Light. Sure it's light, but
-NOT- elemental. It's artificial lighting. Anything made by a technological
means of lighting, regardless of the souce type, is artificial.

sorry to get nutty with the exemplifications, it is just how it is stated.
It is also part of the ruling behind the "can't read a computer screen" from
the astral."

-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:42:34 -0700
Reply-To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: Area of Effect Spells and Astral Targeting
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> > That would seem to raise a number of problems - the spell would have to
> > pass through other auras before grounding out into its target.

> This is true, however those auras will either be those of inanimate objects
> (dust particles for example) which are too small to be observed with the
> naked eye, and thus do not block vision, astral or otherwise, or really
> small living beings... I do not want to get into the mechanics of casting
> spells through tiny bacteria (you all know why), other than to say
> "obviously it can be done - look at the SR rules".

Eh? FAB? :) No, there's an easy out, which I overlooked: inanimate
things can be passed through easily on Astral space (otherwise, what's
the use of projecting?).

(klip)

> > Getting back to the issue at hand, it's the _spell_ that does the
> > targeting, not the mage, and (combat) spells are assumed to hit
> > unerringly (otherwise everything's reduced to a DM). The _spell_
> > certainly doesn't worry about a bit of night-fog.

> Hmmm, I'd not say that myself. The spell just goes where the caster targets
> it. Like a gun really. You "point and shoot". In terms of a spell, the
> "pointing" is the synchronising of auras between the caster and target.
> Also, combat spells do not always hit unerringly, as the caster may cast the
> spell and achieve zero successes - a miss.

...so the powerball splatters against the back wall? No, combat spells
hit unerringly, and it says as much in one of the books; spell movement
is too fast to be sidestepped unless an Astrally aware character has a
Delayed Action and is expecting one to fly his way. (The actual term
used is .intercept. the spell, since you would then go into Astral melee
with it.)

Achieving zero successes can be interpreted a number of ways, the most
easiest of which is that he fails to synchornize auras with the target;
the spell hits but does not ground through. There are other
explanations for zero successes as well.

> > To me, it would become an either/or situation: either you can make out
> > the aura distinctly, or there's so much detritus in the way that the
> > aura is indistinguishable. But 'partly' just doesn't fit. (Or do you
> > only 'partly' synchronize your aura to the targets? Oh, that opens up a
> > box frogs....)

> I don't think so, myself. To me a partial synchronisation is perfectly
> possible. Think of synchronising like plugging 100 switchbox plugs into 100
> switchbox sockets that are randomly ordered on a wall. If you have a clear
> LOS to the wall, you can easily plug in all the plugs. If there is a
> billowing cloud of smoke between you and the wall, then you'll only be able
> to see a certain number of the sockets. Then think of a spell as a power
> surge down the switchbox plug lines to affect the target (the wall). If
> only half as many plugs are plugged, then the overall affect is lesser than
> if they were all plugged. Thats how I view it, anyway.

That analogy doesn't hold up: If I can only make out the "thirty
switchboxes" making up his leg, I only zap him knee-down? The Aura is
whole and complete, like holographic memory; if you have part of it, you
have all of it.

> > > An area effect spell is indeed cast on an area, all valid targets in that
> > > area that the caster can see. The center merely tells where the sphere is
> > > centered, that's all.

> > ...Which yields two types of combat spells: the 'bolts, where the caster
> > has to synch aura, and the 'balls, where synching doesn't (?) have to
> > occur.

> Um, not that I interpret, no. An AOE spell is just the same as a singularly
> targeted spell. The caster synchronises his aura with that of the target,
> then pumps astral energy into the target. The difference being that an AOE
> spell is doing the same thing to every target within a certain area. If the
> synchronisation cannot occur, then the spell will not affect that target
> (for example, if the target is out of LOS, of sufficiently obscured that the
> caster rolls no successes). Obviously, the area of effect limits the
> targets that can be affected by the spell - those outside it are not
> affected.

To give an cry I've let out often lately, how does the caster
synchronize auras with several different people at the same time? Maybe
it's just me, but under the current explanation of Auras, it can't
really happen.

> > > A tiny example on Quickening spells in Grim1 (that I think carried over
> > > to Grim2) which mentions Rikki Ratboy Quickening a spell on a bar patron
> > > to Quicken it to the site; a Stink spell, it was). This may be in the
> > > example not because of something about area spells but rather a
> > > requirement for Quickening.

> > p. 45 of the New Grimoire. The spell is Quickened to the Armadillo Bar,
> > *not* a particular patron. Stink is an Illusion; it does not need an
> > aura to latch onto as a combat spell does.

> The "New Grimythingy"? I've got "The Grimoire: The Manual of
Practical
> Thaumaturgy 15th Edition, 2053", which is the Grimythingy for 2nd Ed SR, and
> mines the 1st printing. It includes, on page 45, an example of Rikki Ratboy
> casting a stink spell into the Armadillo. In the example, Rikki centres the
> spell on a guy in the bar who happens to have a Willpower of 6. This target
> number is used to determine the success or failure of Rikki's spell. I
> believe that the example is incorrect in its execution of the game
> mechanics, however, in that the spell does not need to be centered, and the
> resolution of the spell is made individually for each person within its AOE
> (using the single dice roll the caster made).

Hmm. My take on it was that Rikki wanted to get a patron so he centered
it over a patron. (Centered, not targeted. Big difference.)

> > This has a dangerous conclusion: The mage does .not. have to synch
> > auras in 'ball spells, he just points and shoots. He should, then, be
> > able to 'ball people in range of the spell but not visible to him
> > visually or Astrally; the equivalent of tossing a grenade. Obviously,
> > he has to intuit that a person is there....

> I don't think so - look at my synchronising arguments above.

I'll cede the point, but out of disgust at the repetition than
conviction.

> > > <Snip accurate description of the astral plane mirroring the
physical>

Gotta love the subliminal stuff.

> > On the other hand, the color traffic lights emit, the screen on computer
> > monitors, and neon lighting are all munged, since information can't be
> > read off of them. So (to be argumentative) they emit light into Astral
> > normally, but it isn't perceived correctly?

> Hmmm, interesting point. I was under the impression that light on the
> astral plane is not as we know it on the physical plane. Just that the
> emmisions from auras of living beings, the interactions of these emmisions
> and inanimate objects, and the perception of these emmisions by those with
> astral perception are analogous to light and vision in the physical plane.
> I always thought that objects that emmitted light on the physical plane did
> not do anything special on the astral plane, but living beings emmitted the
> astral equivalent of "light". Thus traffic lights appear the same no
matter
> what colour they are, and computer screens are impossible to read at all.

"Anything special" is an extremely ambiguous term, used here. Care to
elucidate?

> > Off-thread: Via Masking, you can change the perception of your Aura.
> > Shouldn't this, then, add to the difficulty of someone trying to
> > manabolt you? (They see an Aura, but it's not your true Aura.)

> But it is intrinsically and inexorably linked to your true aura, so if they
> affect the "fake" aura, it'll pass right along to you.

Look at it this way: I have myself and a bot. I see fine, but the bot
sees black and white. I tell it to zap anything green.

A magician synchs to the perceived Aura, which is *not* the actual
Aura. The spell flies off in search of it and, since the perceived Aura
is not present, misses. Unless you assume that spells are Initiates and
able to penetrate the mask.

This makes Masking a bit too much like Shielding, so I can understand
why, for game balance, it was removed.

> Bruce H. Nagel writes:

> > And the fact that you must see the target *with*mundane*senses* on the
> > physical plane, if the target is not astral, in order to cast a spell at
> > them. Period. Seeing them by assensing, even though there's always light
> > to see by in Astral, doesn't count. Your physical eyes must see the target
> > to form the momentary bridge from astral to physical (completing the
> > circuit, as it were).

> Yes, this makes sense. Upon reading the description of astral perception,
> we see that it states "When perceiving astrally, the magician's senses are
> focused on the astral plane. Purely phsyical things are visible only by
> their astral echo, making interaction with the physical world very
> difficult." To me this indicates that an astrally peceiving magician can
> only cast spells at astrally present targets. OTOH, a magician who is not
> astrally peceiving may cast spells are purely physical targets, but also
> must abide by the conditions on the physical plane at the time of casting.

Makes sense, but it's wrong. Assensing is a natural extension of normal
eyesight and thus counts for targeting purposes. ("A magician cannot
cast spells directly at invisible beings.. except by using enhanced
vision or *astral perception*...") 'Purely physical things' relates to
rocks and other inanimatter; humans do have astral presence - it's why
they emit light, the argument you used above. The physical realm is the
least important portion of casting a spell; the spell energy jumps from
caster aura to target aura and takes place completely on Astral. If the
caster can perceive the aura - which he should almost always be able to
do on Astral - he can synch with it.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:47:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Living material links
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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At the risk of being called an evil GM ... do you think it would be
feasible to use a runner's kid as a material link for ritual sorcery?

Going on the DNA theory, the child has at least PART of the father's DNA
right? So there should be a flicker of a weak link there, and then of
course there's the fact that the father/son emotional bond could act as a
link.

Anyone have any problem with there being a similarity (Is that the term?)
link/connection between father and son?

Any suggestions for combining this with blood magic for a truly hideous
ritual?

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"Uh-oh! Chongo!"
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 15:32:49 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Area of Effect Spells and Astral Targeting
Comments: To: mbreton@**.netcom.com

In a message dated 97-07-13 12:42:39 EDT, mbreton@**.netcom.com (Matb)
writes:

>
> Makes sense, but it's wrong. Assensing is a natural extension of normal
> eyesight and thus counts for targeting purposes. ("A magician cannot
> cast spells directly at invisible beings.. except by using enhanced
> vision or *astral perception*...") 'Purely physical things' relates to
> rocks and other inanimatter; humans do have astral presence - it's why
> they emit light, the argument you used above. The physical realm is the
> least important portion of casting a spell; the spell energy jumps from
> caster aura to target aura and takes place completely on Astral. If the
> caster can perceive the aura - which he should almost always be able to
> do on Astral - he can synch with it.
>
>
Actually, at this point you're off track ... not wrong ... just off target.
Assensing is "partly" visual. the problem is that as "humans", we
are
visuall oriented, and our minds translate it as such. Ghouls for example are
blind (second gen for sure), and they can assense. There are sideways
remarks in the paranormals guides about "spiritual scent" in reference to the
toxic spirits.

Quit being so Xenocentric, it's time to realize the whole picture, including
the texture of the paper, the smell of the ink when it fresh, the sound of
the breeze captured in it's memory...

-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 15:34:35 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Living material links

In a message dated 97-07-13 12:55:42 EDT, bluewizard@*****.COM (Steven A.
Tinner) writes:

>
> At the risk of being called an evil GM ... do you think it would be
> feasible to use a runner's kid as a material link for ritual sorcery?
>
> Going on the DNA theory, the child has at least PART of the father's DNA
> right? So there should be a flicker of a weak link there, and then of
> course there's the fact that the father/son emotional bond could act as a
> link.

Actually, it's the second strongest link in the game mechanics. The first is
the Mother's Connectivity (she carried him longer, more "aura brushoff" as it
were.

>
> Anyone have any problem with there being a similarity (Is that the term?)
> link/connection between father and son?

None what so ever...

>
> Any suggestions for combining this with blood magic for a truly hideous
> ritual?
>
Actually, there are tons of them ... but I'm not going to help "spread the
disease of wicked gmness..." ;)

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:53:44 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,or Bring out
In-Reply-To: <970713121740_-526858305@*******.mail.aol.com> from "J. Keith
Henry" at Jul 13, 97 12:17:41 pm
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|Don't take this the wrong way Halo, but I think I finally figured out your
|"nickname" of "losthalo". Fallen Angel indeed. ;]

Duhhhhhhhhhhhhh...........
I've been reading it as los(th)alo....
Duh....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:57:25 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Spell types (was Re: Centering vs Penalties)
In-Reply-To: <970713122044_-558624050@*******.mail.aol.com> from "J. Keith
Henry" at Jul 13, 97 12:20:45 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|> SR rulebooks don't, AFAIK, say anything about having to have a target on
|> which an area-effect spell must be centered, and I allow any spell,
|> including combat spells, to be aimed at a point in space.

|Then I really hope you also allow for those people caught in the area effect
|of such spells to have access to their armor for resisting the damage.

Why? If the effect spreads out in astral space and then grounds through all
the auras visible in the area???

| "Ground" is a target 3 or 4 in the book, sidewalk is a bit
|higher...etcetera. That could stage up the damage really, bloodily, fast.

"Ground" is a very vague concept.
If the FLOOR is made of artificial material, the T# for it is in the double
figures. If it's something like Tarmacaddam, the t# would still be high, as
would concrete.

Only if the ground is made of rock or earth with the t# be low....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 21:02:36 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,
In-Reply-To: <970713122705_1790628179@*******.mail.aol.com> from "J. Keith
Henry" at Jul 13, 97 12:27:06 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|
|In a message dated 97-07-13 07:20:20 EDT, u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK (Spike)
|writes:
|
|>
|> The point is, it's a voluntary sacrifice on the part of the character.
|
|So if a player character were to get into the "Voluntary Blood Magic" stuff,
|it wouldn't be evil? That is kind of the "thread" I was looking for.

It's not concidered evil for characters to voluntarily sacrifice large bits
of themselves to technology, is it? (Essence vs Cyber)

It's not evil for characters to voluntarily sacrifice Karma to free spirits,
is it?

Why should GOOD blood magic be different?

|>
|> Evil blood magic is the involuntary sacrifice type of magic....
|> (And the type that draws the Horrors)
|
|WRONG!!! the Great Ghost Dance wasn't truly evil (end justifying the means
|and all) and was completely voluntary on the part of the dancers. It got
|their attention. Of course, so did the Sears Tower Incident...

Will you stop saying "WRONG!!!" as if you're jumping up and down with glee!
And again, no, I'm not wrong.
The Ghost dance drew the horrors because of the sheer magnitude of it all.
EVIL BLOOD magic can draw horrors in much smaller doses.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 21:27:13 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Living material linkst
In-Reply-To: <199707131641.MAA21522@***.ncweb.com> from "Steven A.
Tinner" at
Jul 13, 97 12:47:01 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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|
|At the risk of being called an evil GM ... do you think it would be
|feasible to use a runner's kid as a material link for ritual sorcery?
|
|Going on the DNA theory, the child has at least PART of the father's DNA
|right? So there should be a flicker of a weak link there, and then of
|course there's the fact that the father/son emotional bond could act as a
|link.

Well... You can use things with strong emotional ties, or objects that have
been in close proximity to the character for a long time, like a wristwatch.
(That contains an aural echo).

|Anyone have any problem with there being a similarity (Is that the term?)
|link/connection between father and son?

Family/Emotional/Locational ties? I'd rule yes, unless he never met his son
before that day....

|Any suggestions for combining this with blood magic for a truly hideous
|ritual?

Oooooohohohooo.... You are being an evil GM....
Not one of Bulls kids though.... Pretty please?
:)

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 21:28:41 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Area of Effect Spells and Astral Targeting
In-Reply-To: <970713153248_-759905636@*******.mail.aol.com> from "J. Keith
Henry" at Jul 13, 97 03:32:49 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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|Quit being so Xenocentric, it's time to realize the whole picture, including
|the texture of the paper, the smell of the ink when it fresh, the sound of
|the breeze captured in it's memory...

That's a nice way of putting it....

Poetic, aren't we???
:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 18:34:11 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Fluffy? (Was: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,)
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:21:09 +0100"
<10688.199707131121@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

You wrote:
> The point is, 20 years ago, words like SOD and BUGGER were unacceptable.
> Who's to say that 'Fuck' won't have lost all power to offend by then?
> (And what's the use of a good swear word if it doesn't have some power
> behind it?)
Actually, it's really lost its power to offend anyone but the really sensitive
even today. It's bland now, overused, and can't really get to you.

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 18:44:39 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Heavy pistol damage
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Sun, 13 Jul 1997 13:38:39 +0100"
<MmSBEXAPxMyzEwH9@********.demon.co.uk>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

You wrote:
> I'm not asking for set-in-stone mechanics (though I did once tinker with
> a simple Power - versus - Strength TN table), just more clarification in
> the rules that some of these things _hurt_. I wasn't GMing that game:
> the GM didn't know much about guns: and the response was "but if there
> was a problem it would say so somewhere..."
This is a point where players shouldn't argue too hard with their GM, imo.
If he says it's not reasonable, it's not. Even in the Dirty Harry movies,
Eastwood can feeel the recoil from that .44, you can watch the barrel kick when
he fires it. Et cetera.

> Again, the problem is it requires the GM to know something about
> firearms, preferably to have shot a little. If he knows all he knows
> from movies, then you can rapid-fire a Desert Eagle in each hand without
> apparent discomfort :)
Yeah, some movies are too careless about things like this. Hell, most movies
are too careless about this.

> Common sense needs a certain minimum of experience to base it on, and
> not all players and GMs - especially outside the US - have that
> experience.
True. How about a paragraph describing recoil, in the section on Ranged
combat and firearms? Describing that light pistols are controllable, etc.

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 18:59:34 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Area of Effect Spells and Astral Targeting
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Mon, 14 Jul 1997 01:24:19 +1000"
<199707131524.BAA17024@******.its.uow.edu.au>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

You wrote:
> Yes, this makes sense. Upon reading the description of astral perception,
> we see that it states "When perceiving astrally, the magician's senses are
> focused on the astral plane. Purely phsyical things are visible only by
> their astral echo, making interaction with the physical world very
> difficult." To me this indicates that an astrally peceiving magician can
> only cast spells at astrally present targets. OTOH, a magician who is not
> astrally peceiving may cast spells are purely physical targets, but also
> must abide by the conditions on the physical plane at the time of casting.

> Thus vision modifiers are applicable to spellcasting.

One neat little side-note: if you're ever blinded by darkness, and want to
shoot someone (not cast spells at them, that isn't possible without Thermo),
assense, take the +2 for acting physically while assensing, and use Gaia's glow
to see them and shoot. :) A small trick, but occasionally very useful.

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:12:03 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,or Bring out
yourSpells,Bringout your spells!
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:17:41 -0400"
<970713121740_-526858305@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

You wrote:
> > losthalo
> >
> >
> Don't take this the wrong way Halo, but I think I finally figured out your
> "nickname" of "losthalo". Fallen Angel indeed. ;]

In fact it is a heckuva lot more complicated than that, but that's one
interpretation. Like a lot of things I choose for myself, it can swing both
ways... It also talks about my realization that I'm no longer a Christian,
though I have standards and morals. And it says that maybe instead of wanting
a halo I want other things right now. It also says that maybe a halo isn't
worth having, rather there are better ways of judging things and looking at
them. Lost illusions and mistaken ideas. Look at me, waxing all philosophic
over my netname...

losthaloGoFA6)7(Im6TJt)Fe(7P!ShMoBnone=(cBKc8MBV6sM3ZGoPuTeiClbMehC6a23=n4b55H17
3g4L??96FmT1Ea4@*********************************************************"While
youarelisteningtothisrecording,yourwillingattentionismakingyoumoreandmoreintothe
personyouwanttobecome."
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 16:15:08 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Kim Christiansen <kimc@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: cyberware and it's effects on the psyche and body
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

> From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
>
> In a message dated 97-07-12 17:06:57 EDT, shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK
(Paul
> J. Adam) writes:
>
> >
> > The leviathan resumes its patrol.
> >
> >
> And the aircraft carrier "Spudzone" moves the other way...it was in

um... I kinda liked the topic as is... could we get back to that subject so
I don't have to download 300 messages of wich half are OT,
Please and Thank You.

So, on this topic, I just finished reading Never Deal With A Dragon again,
and there was this dude named Radley in the book that was definite
Cyber-Psychosis. He was flat out wacked. How do you fit that into the game
via SR rules. I have a character in my game that unless his CyberWare wasn't
Alpha grade, he'd be a cyberzombie. He played it cool, detached, not quite
human. But would it manifest itself as a detachment from humanity or a
revenge on humanity??????????????

kim
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 16:22:24 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Kim Christiansen <kimc@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: flood
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

> From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
>
> >
> > News from Poland... My city is almost flooded. Council is panickaly
trying
>
> > to save oldest part of city full of churches, museums etc... my only
acces
> to
> > the world is internet... i can`t make outside city phone calls...
> >
> > But i`m goin` to play tonight... i`m crazy :)
> >
> >
> Yasiu, you are right, you ARE nuts. The US just had its entire northern
> midwest go into floodland this spring, they'll tell you, get out of town
and
> be safe...

yASIu... don't mess around unless you're on HIGH ground. We get flood all
the time out in the Snohomish valley and the waters rise FAST.
Be careful, good luck to you and yours.

kim
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 16:34:24 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Kim Christiansen <kimc@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Hacking
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> From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
>
> On 12 Jul 97 at 23:49, Adam J wrote:
>
> > I would disagree with this one. I thought that the 'Paperless'
> > office was supposed to have already happened, but I don't see it..
> > My 'office', as it is, is piled high with paper. Print outs,
> > magazines, books, everything. I realize the matrix is supposed to
> > be integrated much more than todays computer networks, but I can
> > still see stacks of paper and books on peoples desks.
>
> Absolutely. Management would not be able to function without their
> pounds and pounds of hardcopy.
>
start message reply
start task "ramble"

Well, I think that it's easier to sit around phreaking somebody like Eddie
Bauer or some other catalog store and wait for the perople who kindly give
out their credit card numbers and expiration dates. Problem then is
hsipping, but if you try hard enough, somebody will ship to you without
asking questions. Not that I have the capability to do this, but hacking is
all in how you frame the goal. Is it to steal? or is it because you can.
Usually the latter.

end task "ramble"
end message reply

kim
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:47:17 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Living material links
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:47:01 -0400"
<199707131641.MAA21522@***.ncweb.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

You wrote:
> At the risk of being called an evil GM ... do you think it would be
> feasible to use a runner's kid as a material link for ritual sorcery?
No, no, no. It is not still just one parent's DNA, or even both parents' DNA
equally mixed. Some random chance goes into it as well, which is why two kids
from the same parents do not necessarily have the same characteristics.

> Going on the DNA theory, the child has at least PART of the father's DNA
> right? So there should be a flicker of a weak link there, and then of
> course there's the fact that the father/son emotional bond could act as a
> link.
Too weak, it is not a *part* of his structure, and any likeness is
overwhelmed by the kid's own aura anyway, he/she has an aura of their own.

losthalo (geez, get some fingernail clippings or something...)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:52:42 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,or Bring out
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:53:44 +0100"
<11744.199707131953@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
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You wrote:
> |Don't take this the wrong way Halo, but I think I finally figured out your
> |"nickname" of "losthalo". Fallen Angel indeed. ;]

> Duhhhhhhhhhhhhh...........
> I've been reading it as los(th)alo....
> Duh....
As in Thalo Blue or somesuch? ;) And I thought it was so simple and
straightforward and boring...

little-lost-halo
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:57:30 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: SR I question
In-Reply-To: <199707131527.BAA17137@******.its.uow.edu.au>
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At 01:27 7/14/97 +1000, you wrote:
>> Steve Kenson asked for ideas on the list, which naturally got totally out
>> of hand...
>
>I hope he's got a lot of time to collate all of the suggestions he'll get.
>I've got some 30 points to bring up... Do people think it would be better
>to:
>
>a) Send such suggestions directly to Steve?
>b) Post suggestions collated in one big message so that those who couldn't
>care less can nuke them easily?
>c) Post suggestions individually so that they can be discussed by the list?

I sent mine right to Steve, because they were definite suggestions, not
ideas that needed discussion. If you want to get other opinions on them
too, then post them to the list, but then you're less likely to get Steve's
opinion, I think. And if you do post them, may as well post them as one
huge message.. better than 12 little ones :)

-Adam
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:54:29 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Sun, 13 Jul 1997 21:02:36 +0100"
<11758.199707132002@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-version: 1.0
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You wrote:
> |WRONG!!! the Great Ghost Dance wasn't truly evil (end justifying the means
> |and all) and was completely voluntary on the part of the dancers. It got
> |their attention. Of course, so did the Sears Tower Incident...

> Will you stop saying "WRONG!!!" as if you're jumping up and down with glee!
> And again, no, I'm not wrong.
> The Ghost dance drew the horrors because of the sheer magnitude of it all.
> EVIL BLOOD magic can draw horrors in much smaller doses.....
I agree. the 'wrong' thing is annoying, especially when you're talking about
something which can be seen many different ways (the case with most
moral/ethical situations). The Ghost Dance was used to give the Amerinds power
over those who had oppressed them, and used the means of endangering the lives
of many, many UCAS citizens. That is not only means-to-an-end, that is the
epitome of means-to-an-end: terrorism. I threaten to do X if you don't do Y.
Those citizens had nothing to do with the power struggle, and yet were being
threatened with magical might and ordered to give up their homes. Say that
wasn't at least a little evil, go ahead. Maybe justified to Americans who'd
been shoved off their land and lost much to caucasians, but does that justify
holding millions hostage? I'm wandering, this has nothing to do with the Blood
Magic thread I'm afraid, but... don't go shouting WRONG! in my ear when I have
some idea of what I'm talking about. Don't do it to others, either, they'll
make you look bad.

losthalo
"This is your Uncle Larr here, I'm just trynna help you people"
--some stand-up comic
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:01:53 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: cyberware and it's effects on the psyche and body
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Sun, 13 Jul 1997 16:15:08 +0100"
<19970713231958.AAA10495@****.cyberspace.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

You wrote:
> So, on this topic, I just finished reading Never Deal With A Dragon again,
> and there was this dude named Radley in the book that was definite
> Cyber-Psychosis. He was flat out wacked. How do you fit that into the game
> via SR rules. I have a character in my game that unless his CyberWare wasn't
> Alpha grade, he'd be a cyberzombie. He played it cool, detached, not quite
> human. But would it manifest itself as a detachment from humanity or a
> revenge on humanity??????????????
"Luke, you will find that many of the truths we cling to depend on our point of
view."

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:08:16 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Optional Metatypes, part 3: Sasquatch

On Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:36:27 -0800 Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
writes:
>At 17:24 7/10/97 -0400, Bull wrote:
>>Actually, as far as I can tell, Sasquatch CAN understand the spoken
>>languange. they just can't speak a language.
>>
>>That's just always been my impression, at least...;]
>
>My impression is that they are unable to assimilate spoken language; the
>idea just doesn't work for them.

Well, medically that same condition can arise in humans... that is a
person can hear and understand spoken speach perfectly fine, but are
almost completely unable to speak coherently. themselves. It had to do
with the connections between the parts of the brain for speech and
comprehension/cognitive activity (or something... the "Mind, Brain, and
Behavior" class that I took was two quarters ago.)

~Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:08:07 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Music for Shadowrun
In-Reply-To: <33C72EDE.DC5BBF15@********.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Don't forget about Operation Mindcrime by Queensryche
--
/-justin@****.mcp.com----------------------jbell@****.mcp.com--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:34:06 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Mailing list Digest ?
In-Reply-To: <10674.199707131112@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 12:12 PM 7/13/97 +0100, you wrote:
#|
#|On 12 Jul 97 at 23:47, Spike wrote:
#|
#|> And it forces them to use the ol' grey matter a little....
#|
#|Problem is, Spikey, his asinine spew showed that he had no grey
#|matter.
#
#Possibly a little....
#It's our job to help him exercise what little he might have, in order for it
#to grow....

You guys are harsh!

;)
--
/-justin@****.mcp.com----------------------jbell@****.mcp.com--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:48:10 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Area of Effect Spells and Astral Targeting

On Sun, 13 Jul 1997 18:59:34 -0500 "Bruce H. Nagel"
<NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU> writes:
<snipping>

<<One neat little side-note: if you're ever blinded by darkness, and want
to shoot someone (not cast spells at them, that isn't possible without
Thermo), assense, take the +2 for acting physically while assensing, and
use Gaia's glow to see them and shoot. :) A small trick, but
occasionally very useful.>>

Question: Game balance aside, why couldn't you do the same for spell
casting? In fact, you'd probably be able to ignore the +2, since the
action of spellcasting is not wholly physical. After all, you're still
physically active so that you can actually cast a spell at a target on
the mundane world...

--
-Canthros (not that the dual-natured need worry about it, anyway:)
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:48:10 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Living material links

On Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:47:01 -0400 "Steven A. Tinner"
<bluewizard@*****.COM> writes:
<<At the risk of being called an evil GM>>

I thought we had already established that fact:)

<<... do you think it would be feasible to use a runner's kid as a
material link for ritual sorcery?>>

Hmmm...You're not gonna do even more stuff to Bull are you? Seems like
nearly every time you come up with this stuff, a certain ork decker gets
himself socked...maybe not this time, though. No "Bull-Stay Out" in the
subject line:)

<<Going on the DNA theory, the child has at least PART of the father's
DNA right? So there should be a flicker of a weak link there, and then of
course there's the fact that the father/son emotional bond could act as a
link.>>

The problem, however, is that the child's aura is separate and distinct
from the parents' respective auras. There would be similarities, just as
there are similarities genetically, but the aura of the individual child
is unique and separate from that of his parents, even more so than his
genetic fingerprint.

<<Anyone have any problem with there being a similarity (Is that the
term?) link/connection between father and son?>>

You mean a sympathetic link? <getting Awakenings and Grimmy> also brought
the BBB:) I could see either sympathetic or symbolic links, but not a
material link in the sens that is required in the BBB. It's quite
possible (especially if the child spends little time around the parent in
question) that they could not function adequately as a sypathetic link,
mainly because I figure on any 'aural fingerprints' that might have been
left by the parent being integrated into the living, dynamic aura of the
child (or any living animal, for that matter). A symbolic link might be
iffy, mostly because the child is not a representation of what the parent
is like now, and may not even be a representation of the parent is
his/her youth. And, of course, the child contains only half of the
parent's DNA, not enough to function as a material link, IMO.

<<Any suggestions for combining this with blood magic for a truly hideous
ritual?>>

Oh, like you really need help on the evil GM trip:)

Ever read any of C.S. Friedman's books in the Dark Sun Trilogy? In there,
you could make a sacrifice (not necessarily a blood sacrifice, btw) to
make magic more powerful, the extra power this granted you depended a
great deal on the personal meaning the sacrificed item(s) held, for you
or for the person involved. I'd say that a child would mean some
seriously nasty magic if you used it that way <shudder>

--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:54:22 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: how to

On Fri, 11 Jul 1997 15:05:14 -0600 Mike Loseke writes:
>Quoth Raven:
>>
>> yASIu asked:
>>
>> > How to convert damage codes from 1st edition to second???
>>
>> Add the numbers together, so 4M2 becomes 6M and so on. Grenades are

Not too good of an example, 'cause you could argue that 4M2 would stay
the same.... as all damage codes in SRII use a staging of 2.

> Cool, is this the listed formula, or does it just work out that way?
>I've never seen a formula for the conversion, but this sounds dead on
right.

Not really a listed formula, but I think something to that effect is
listed in the back of the BBB... and it's fairly workable.

~Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:53:30 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Fluffy? (Was: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,)
In-Reply-To: <01IL74ZBKNEA9I56XP@******.acs.muohio.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 06:34 PM 7/13/97 -0500, you wrote:
#You wrote:
#> The point is, 20 years ago, words like SOD and BUGGER were unacceptable.
#> Who's to say that 'Fuck' won't have lost all power to offend by then?
#> (And what's the use of a good swear word if it doesn't have some power
#> behind it?)
#Actually, it's really lost its power to offend anyone but the really
sensitive
#even today. It's bland now, overused, and can't really get to you.
I dunno, what would happen if you happened to say it to you boss??
--
/-justin@****.mcp.com----------------------jbell@****.mcp.com--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:24:13 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Area of Effect Spells and Astral Targeting
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:48:10 -0400 (EDT)"
<19970713.204643.20479.1.lobo1@****.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

You wrote:
> Question: Game balance aside, why couldn't you do the same for spell
> casting? In fact, you'd probably be able to ignore the +2, since the
> action of spellcasting is not wholly physical. After all, you're still
> physically active so that you can actually cast a spell at a target on
> the mundane world...
It has nothing to do with game balance, it's the way the mechanics are
explained. You have to physically see the target to tell the spell how to
ground into it from the astral. Casting a spell on a target in the physical
world is partially a matter of synchronizing auras, and partly a matter of
physical (visual) targeting. The two are both necessary, either part left out
makes it impossible to cast.

Though if you are casting a spell while assensing, you don't suffer the +2, as
it's for non-magical activities.

losthalo, who's never figured these rules were hard to understand...
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:23:57 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Aaron Jones <aaronj@******.COM>
Subject: Physical Adept Powers
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

With the recent posts about physical adepts (and me playing my
first), I was wondering what (if any) new powers other people had come up
with. Any takers?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:31:46 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Fluffy? (Was: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,)
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:53:30 -0500"
<3.0.1.32.19970713195330.007d59d0@***.iquest.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

You wrote:
> #Actually, it's really lost its power to offend anyone but the really
> sensitive
> #even today. It's bland now, overused, and can't really get to you.
> I dunno, what would happen if you happened to say it to you boss??
I don't talk to my boss the way I do to other people in general anyway. That's
just another example. But it's been a long time since a curse word really
actually shocked me. Fourth grade or so, maybe.

losthalo, who got his foul-word education early
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 22:41:36 -0700
Reply-To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: Area of Effect Spells and Astral Targeting
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> > Question: Game balance aside, why couldn't you do the same for spell
> > casting? In fact, you'd probably be able to ignore the +2, since the
> > action of spellcasting is not wholly physical. After all, you're still
> > physically active so that you can actually cast a spell at a target on
> > the mundane world...

> It has nothing to do with game balance, it's the way the mechanics are
> explained. You have to physically see the target to tell the spell how to
> ground into it from the astral. Casting a spell on a target in the physical
> world is partially a matter of synchronizing auras, and partly a matter of
> physical (visual) targeting. The two are both necessary, either part left out
> makes it impossible to cast.

Therein lies the dispute.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:21:33 -0400
Reply-To: shergold@***********.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Shergold <shergold@***********.NET>
Subject: Blood Magic ( Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> |
> |In a message dated 97-07-13 07:20:20 EDT, u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK
(Spike)
> |writes:
> |
> |>
> |> The point is, it's a voluntary sacrifice on the part of the
character.
> |
> |So if a player character were to get into the "Voluntary Blood Magic"
stuff,
> |it wouldn't be evil? That is kind of the "thread" I was looking for.
>
> It's not concidered evil for characters to voluntarily sacrifice large
bits
> of themselves to technology, is it? (Essence vs Cyber)
>
The way I see Blood Magic is that it's power like any other, it's in the
use that makes it evil. I could see it being somewhat evil if you use
someone else's blood and that person was TOTALLY comitted (as in mind,
body, heart, and soul comitment).

> It's not evil for characters to voluntarily sacrifice Karma to free
spirits,
> is it?
>
> Why should GOOD blood magic be different?
>
> |>
> |> Evil blood magic is the involuntary sacrifice type of magic....
> |> (And the type that draws the Horrors)
> |
> |WRONG!!! the Great Ghost Dance wasn't truly evil (end justifying the
means
> |and all) and was completely voluntary on the part of the dancers. It
got
> |their attention. Of course, so did the Sears Tower Incident...
>
> Will you stop saying "WRONG!!!" as if you're jumping up and down with
glee!
> And again, no, I'm not wrong.
> The Ghost dance drew the horrors because of the sheer magnitude of it
all.
> EVIL BLOOD magic can draw horrors in much smaller doses.....

I could see how the Great Ghost Dance would contain some evil. What if
those who were involved didn't realize that what made it so powerful would
be their lives? I know that if I wasn't told that the Great Work I would be
involved in would cost me my life, I might have reservations on the subject
as I was dying and that might put a taint on would otherwise be honerable
intentions.

SilverFire

"I merely chewed in self-defense."

-Draco the Dragon
"Dragonheart"
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:51:23 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "David J. Browne Jr" <Ronin55444@***.COM>
Subject: Re: NPC/Location Database Ideas

Is the NPC Database going to be like the SRCG by Paolo (sp?)? If so, is
could you put an override system into it to allow CG of NPC / Opponents with
higher then standard abilities...... I have a group who has been playing with
me for about 7 yrs, and comming up with individual Opponents which equal
their abilities can be a pain and time consuming (This is more for when they
pull their original group out of moth balls....I would like to come up with a
fistfull of opposition for them with little time.... something I have very
little of since I joined this list with its high traffic ;)

Thanks

Dave
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:55:11 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Bull's kids are dead (Was - Re: Living material links)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Oooooohohohooo.... You are being an evil GM....
> Not one of Bulls kids though.... Pretty please?

Man what's with everybody and Bulls stinky foul Ork babies?
Here I thought I had done the world a favor by letting the Juggernaut eat
them ...

Just kidding!
Bull's kids a re mostly OK, and no, the ritual sacrifice idea was NOT for
him!
I used the concept with a voudoun in our campaign named Sangre.
He's a follower of Ghede, and has had a looonng rivalry with another Petro
voudoun named Ramirez.

Ramirez discovered that Sangre had fathered an illegitimate child (in the
PC's background) and captured the kid for use in a really nasty ritual.
I combined some elements of traditional voodoo, mixed in a little Cthulu,
swirled in a generous helping of Chariots of the Gods (ala Dream Park -
California Voodoo Game) and voila! We had a heck of a good game tonight!

The Sleestaks I mentioned the other day became Cthuloid Deep Ones.
Rmirez made a deal with a Horror, Cthulu and our old friend Mr. Darke to
have revenge on Sangre.

Oh yeah, I also mixed in a neutron bomb that was stolen from the wreckage
of an Ares space station. ;-)
Good old Bull with his 300+ total karma, and hideous karma pool took a
serious beating, and was challenged in combat for the first time in AGES!
I managed to whittle the four man team down from a combined total karma
pool, including team karma of over 130 to just 11 left in the team karma
pool!
Good fun was had by all, and at the end of the run, the players felt like
they had earned every karma point the received!

I'm dern happy about that!

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"Uh-oh! Chongo!"
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 18:49:59 -0700
Reply-To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: Area of Effect Spells and Astral Targeting
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> |To give an cry I've let out often lately, how does the caster
> |synchronize auras with several different people at the same time? Maybe
> |it's just me, but under the current explanation of Auras, it can't
> |really happen.

> How about him not just synchronising auras, but cycling through?
> That way, all the auras are targetted and affected, but at VERY small
> differences in time... Think of those Mandelbrot screensavers that cycle
> through all the colours......

Didn't someone on the list propose something like this once - I believe
the actual scenario he suggested was that a mage was halfway cycling
through opponents when he was killed, or something like that.

And no, it can't be cycling through. Otherwise you end up with the mage
deciding not to blast his buddies; area effect spells effect everyone
within the area. And the actual spell-threading behind it gets foogy -
what, the spell gets released with the first aura imprint, unleashes,
comes back to get refreshed?

What's it mean, this 'aura synching', anyway?

> |> > p. 45 of the New Grimoire. The spell is Quickened to the Armadillo Bar,
> |> > *not* a particular patron. Stink is an Illusion; it does not need an
> |> > aura to latch onto as a combat spell does.

> |> The "New Grimythingy"?

> I think by "new" he means "not the first edition one".

I didn't think it'd be that hard to understand!

> |A magician synchs to the perceived Aura, which is *not* the actual
> |Aura. The spell flies off in search of it and, since the perceived Aura
> |is not present, misses. Unless you assume that spells are Initiates and
> |able to penetrate the mask.

> Nope. The spell goes out seeking the PERCEIVED aura, heads directly for it
> and grounds through it.... It then comes across another aura hidden inside,
> but ignores it because this aura will do just fine thankyouverymuch....

> BANG!

Depends on how you define the Masking routine. Is it the mage's One
True Aura, with markups? Or is it a secondary image over the first? Or
is it just playing with the perceiving mage's mind?

Given he first, I can see spelling with no difficulty.

Given the second, I can see spelling with difficulty.

Given the third, I can't see spelling.

> |This makes Masking a bit too much like Shielding, so I can understand
> |why, for game balance, it was removed.

> Easy ways to reason it out as well....

Again, depending on how you reason Masking. The spell bumps into a fake
aura (or is given false parameters by the casting mage). Well, it looks
like it's the target, so it flows through - but to where? If it's a
falso image, it is by definition .not. the aura of the target. Ergo,
difficulties.

> |Makes sense, but it's wrong. Assensing is a natural extension of normal
> |eyesight and thus counts for targeting purposes. ("A magician cannot
> |cast spells directly at invisible beings.. except by using enhanced
> |vision or *astral perception*...")

Pardon me, but I must:

<nitpick>

> Astral perception has nothing to do with eyesight whatsoever.
> A blind mage could walk around without worry most of the time, as long as he
> was continually assensing.

</nitpick>

Replace 'eyesight' with 'senses.' Incidentally, almost all SR Astral
stuff written talks about Astral in terms of 'visible', 'viewing',
'sight' or 'vision.' Occasionally, 'assensing' or 'perception' come up,
but the former are much more prevalent.

> When you assense, you detatch your astral body VERY SLIGHTLY from the
> physical one, in order to see in astral space. Therefore, your eyesight
> matters not a jot.....

Oops. The </nitpick> should be down here.

> It's all just a matter of ruling HOW MUCH the astral body is detatched
> during assensing before it becomes fully detatched and loses control of the
> physical.....

> For example. Do you allow a mage to assense in order to see past a tight
> fitting blindfold? Possibly. A bag on the head (Magemask)? No.

... A fairly arbitrary decision, except that we want security to have
some way of stopping those mean mages.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 20:59:16 -0700
Reply-To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: Area of Effect Spells and Astral Targeting
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> > Makes sense, but it's wrong. Assensing is a natural extension of normal
> > eyesight and thus counts for targeting purposes.

> Nope.

Read my comments to Spike, vis a vis nitpicking.

> > The physical realm is the
> > least important portion of casting a spell; the spell energy jumps from
> > caster aura to target aura and takes place completely on Astral.

> To affect a physical target, it has to ground into their body, in the physical.
> That requires physically seeing the target.

Nope. You synch to an aura, not a physical structure. The spell
targets the aura. Follow.

> "A magician cannot, however, cast spells directly at invisible beings or beings
> in astral space [except] by using enhanced vision or astral perception." Quote
it
> correctly, it makes sense. You added that 'except'.

Corrected Third Printing, Bruce. The 'except' is part of the quote.
The obvious implication is that since you *can* assense invisible
creatures, you can 'bolt them. I don't see a hideous game imbalance
stemming from that.

> "A good rule of thumb is that magicians
> must see their targets with their eyes or a natural extension of those eyes."

Ahh. The reason for the nit. Again, you're assensing (astral sight)
the target. If you want to read it that tightly, you eliminate any
possibility of Astral combat, or targeting non-manifested elementals,
among other things.

> To ground a spell into the physical, the spell needs two things: visual (with
> physical senses) confirmation of the target, and a split-second synchronization
> of auras to tell the spell where, it astral, to go. Simple? Simple.

And incorrect. True? True. A mage is most likely to decide to target
something because he's seen it, yes, but it's not a requirement;
otherwise Ye Olde Blind Mage is SOL.

Just read the section on combat spells; because the auras are synched,
the spell energy leaps between the two. It crosses the distance in
Astral space; the spell is utterly unconcerned with physical matters
until it bumps into its target.

And note, that in the 'Astral glimpse' required to synch auras, the
magician _sees_ the aura of the target.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 21:02:23 -0700
Reply-To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: Optional Metatypes, part 3: Sasquatch
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> Well, medically that same condition can arise in humans... that is a
> person can hear and understand spoken speach perfectly fine, but are
> almost completely unable to speak coherently. themselves. It had to do
> with the connections between the parts of the brain for speech and
> comprehension/cognitive activity (or something... the "Mind, Brain, and
> Behavior" class that I took was two quarters ago.)

Aphasia (of which there are two kinds, both of which I forget the names
to. One allows you to understand speech but not produce words sensibly,
and the other is more or less vice versa.) Not exactly an evolutionary
advantage for a species to develop, is it?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 23:42:20 -0700
Reply-To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: Area of Effect Spells and Astral Targeting
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> Spell Targeting, p.130
> "... Magicians cannot directly affect what they cannot see..."

Does assensing provide visual information? Yes. Does an assensing
mage, then, see his target? Yes. Can he target an assensed-only
target? Yes, QED. (For quotes, see the Grimoire section on Astral, p.
86ff. Nearly all of it is described in terms of 'visual.')

Incidental: A mage cannot *directly* affect what he can see. An
area-effect spell indirectly targets a 'hidden' character and therefore,
seemingly, is legitimate.

> "A magician cannot, however, cast spells directly at invisible beings or beings
> in astral space by using enhanced vision or astral perception."

Quote correctly. "A mage cannot cast spells ... except by using
enhanced vision or astral perception..." From the sentence, the
conclusion can be drawn that one can indeed target an assensed creature.

> You must see the target, and astral-only sight does not count. It is clear,
> and simple. Sight and an unobstructed astral path (i.e. no barriers or
> intercepting magicians) are both required for a spell to be cast on someone.
> This is all spelled out in more detail on pp. 149-150, if you care to trake a
> look, it's fairly specific and clear, imo.

P. 149 yields this quote: "The magician, because of the working of the
astral forces that power the spell, is able to *see* the aura of the
target. This allows him to align or synchronize his aura with that of
the target, permitting the astral energy shaped by the caster to leap
between them, through astral space..." (emphasis mine).

Further down: "What happens next is that the spell grounds out into the
target through the target's aura. This is because of the previously
stated rule that things in astral space cannot directly directly affect
non-magical things in the real world, unless there is a bridge. The
bridge, in this case, is momentarily created by the spellcaster when the
auras are involved are synchronized."

At no time in this exchange is physically seeing the owner of the aura
made a necessity. The aura-synching is all that's required to target
and cast the spell.

Now, a mage may not always be checking around astrally (Invisibility
affects normal vision, so unless an invisible creature tips off the
mage, it's not likely to be noticed) and a someone hidden from view
cannot be targeted, as the interposed objects block astral perception.

There's no rules-imbalance created by this, nor does it clash with
existing SR rules.

> So, what is the dispute?

Do you realize I've been asking the same question?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:37:52 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: [OT] Happy Fun Ball!!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Since nobody else mentioned it..I'll do it..

M
I
C
R
O

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

F
O
R

M
i
B

Did anyone else Notice the Happy Fum Ball [TM] in MiB?? I started
laughing in the theater as soon as I Saw it..My wife thought I was
crazy...
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 00:38:06 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Greg Childress <greg@***.EDU>
Subject: Origins: Saturday Night Hive!
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Geez, I just got something like 450 messages after our server was down for
three days! Anyway, in a few days I and my intrepid band of role-playing
companions will be hitting the road (Ouch, dammit I wish they'd use softer
concrete!) for Columbus. We'll be gm'ing the Shadowrun Tournament
"Saturday Night Hive" on Thursday, Friday and Saturday and I'll probably be
around running some demos if the FASA folks want me to so if you're there
drop on by and say "Hi" Get in to the tournament if you can it should be
pretty cool.

<greg>
softer concrete!? what the hell am
I talking about?

=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 01:00:42 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Physical Adept Powers

On Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:23:57 -0400 Aaron Jones <aaronj@******.COM>
writes:
> With the recent posts about physical adepts (and me playing my
>first), I was wondering what (if any) new powers other people had come
>up
>with. Any takers?

I would, if I had any to give you. However, you'll probably want to hit
the Physad's Handybook (available in Paolo's Archive
<http://www.interware.it/shadowrun>; somewhere)

--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 01:00:42 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Area of Effect Spells and Astral Targeting

Umm...okay, I thought I'd give you guys what I've go ton the matter here,
on affecting persons out of LOS with an Area-effect spell. First, you
cannot affect someone you cannot see (ie, out of your LOS/field of
vision) with an area-effect Combat spell. You have to be able to synch
auras with your target in that case, and you have to be able to the
target (and, by extension, his/her aura) to synch auras. And we all know
that manipulations are a different matter. Because they don't really
require you to synch auras with the target/victim:), you _can_ hit
somebody you can't see, but only with an area-effect _manipulation_. And
this is supported by passages in both the BBB and the Grimmy. So there;)

--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 01:00:41 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Area of Effect Spells and Astral Targeting

On Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:24:13 -0500 "Bruce H. Nagel"
<NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU> writes:

<<It has nothing to do with game balance, it's the way the mechanics are
explained. You have to physically see the target to tell the spell how
to ground into it from the astral. Casting a spell on a target in the
physical world is partially a matter of synchronizing auras, and partly a
matter of physical (visual) targeting. The two are both necessary,
either part left out makes it impossible to cast.>>

Could you point out a passage where this is stated? As I recall, you're
never required to see the target, just his/her/its aura, to synch with
it. And yes, I did just check 'Spell Targetting' in the BBB. It stated
that a 'good rule of thumb' was that the magician should be able to see
the target with his eyes or 'a natural extension of those eyes', which
would appear to include binoculars (optical only, electronics don't count
because it's got to be the 'original image' of the target), cybereyes
(because the mage paid Essence for them) and (by my interpretation,
anyway) astral perception. Remote vision (like from a drone or a spell
like Clairvoyance) doesn't work. Apparently, however, vision enhanced
with a spell is fine, so long as it doesn't do things like allowing the
magician's vision to follow a curved line (like around a corner or over a
hill) (reference: see X-Ray Vision in Awakenings, pg.135)

<<Though if you are casting a spell while assensing, you don't suffer the
+2, as it's for non-magical activities.>>

My reasoning on that point, exactly.

<<losthalo, who's never figured these rules were hard to understand...>>

Are you kidding? The magic rules are probably the most ambiguous and
indistinct set of rules in the entire game, hence all the discussion on
them:)

--
-Canthros (WOW! I think this is going to be the most posts I've sent out
in a couple of days:)
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 01:00:42 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Living material links)

On Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:55:11 -0400 "Steven A. Tinner"
<bluewizard@*****.COM> writes:
<<Man what's with everybody and Bulls stinky foul Ork babies?>>

I think it has to do with them seeming to be your favorite targets:)

<<Here I thought I had done the world a favor by letting the Juggernaut
eat them ...>>

<<Just kidding!>>

You're a sick, sick, sick person, do you know that? Sadist, sick, sick,
sadistic person:)

<<Bull's kids a re mostly OK, and no, the ritual sacrifice idea was NOT
for him!
I used the concept with a voudoun in our campaign named Sangre. He's a
follower of Ghede, and has had a looonng rivalry with another Petro
voudoun named Ramirez.>>

Ah, one of Bull's friends.

<<Ramirez discovered that Sangre had fathered an illegitimate child (in
the PC's background) and captured the kid for use in a really nasty
ritual.
I combined some elements of traditional voodoo, mixed in a little Cthulu,
swirled in a generous helping of Chariots of the Gods (ala Dream Park -
California Voodoo Game) and voila! We had a heck of a good game
tonight!>>

I sense serious masochism here...

<<The Sleestaks I mentioned the other day became Cthuloid Deep Ones.
Rmirez made a deal with a Horror, Cthulu and our old friend Mr. Darke to
have revenge on Sangre.>>

Oh, boy <eye-rolling>.

<<Oh yeah, I also mixed in a neutron bomb that was stolen from the
wreckage of an Ares space station. ;-) Good old Bull with his 300+ total
karma, and hideous karma pool took a serious beating, and was challenged
in combat for the first time in AGES!>>

Ummm...I *think* that's a good thing (a neutron bomb?!)

<<I managed to whittle the four man team down from a combined total karma
pool, including team karma of over 130 to just 11 left in the team karma
pool!
Good fun was had by all, and at the end of the run, the players felt like
they had earned every karma point the received!>>

Well, as long as they enjoyed it, I guess:)

<<I'm dern happy about that!>>

At least he's a man who loves his work:)

--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 01:00:42 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,)

On Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:31:46 -0500 "Bruce H. Nagel"
<NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU> writes:

<>

'Shock' is not the same as 'offend'. I can be quite offended without
being shocked (for example, telling me to f*ck off will offend me
greatly, but it won't necessarily shock me, depending on the person). I'm
just more likely to be more offended if I'm shocked by it at the same
time.

<<losthalo, who got his foul-word education early>>

Didn't we all?

--
-Canthros, who learned most of those really neat words by 5th grade at
the latest (and picked up his worst cases of foul-mouth while with the
BSA:)
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 00:59:39 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Greg Childress <greg@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Optional Metatypes, part 3: Sasquatch <OT>
In-Reply-To: <33C8534F.6E00@**.netcom.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:02 AM 7/13/97 -0400, you wrote:
>> Well, medically that same condition can arise in humans... that is a
>> person can hear and understand spoken speach perfectly fine, but are
>> almost completely unable to speak coherently. themselves. It had to do
>> with the connections between the parts of the brain for speech and
>> comprehension/cognitive activity (or something... the "Mind, Brain, and
>> Behavior" class that I took was two quarters ago.)
>
>Aphasia (of which there are two kinds, both of which I forget the names
>to. One allows you to understand speech but not produce words sensibly,
>and the other is more or less vice versa.) Not exactly an evolutionary
>advantage for a species to develop, is it?
>
>
Broca's and Wernicke's Aphasia's named after the people who documented the
cases. Not easy to imagine as an evolutionary advantage but then again
neither is the appendix for humans (at least now). Could be vestigial and
improper functioning of a facility that is not used (Prehistoric Awakened
Talking White Shamanic Gorillas next week on Geraldo!)

<greg>
walking the god and worshiping Dog
Shamanic Worldview
or
the dyslexic Delimiter.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Love is not something you can | Greg Childress 0 O
put chains on and throw into | greg@***.edu >
a lake. That's called Houdini | pcstud3@***.edu ----
Love is liking someone a lot. | http://jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu/~child_gp
--------------------------------------------------------------------
When you've seen one non-sequitur, the price of tea in China.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 01:19:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Charles R Joseph <arcaneacuity@****.COM>
Subject: Net Books

I've been out of the loop for quite some time, and was wondering
if there were currently any shadowrun netbooks in developement. Also,
has there ever been a respectable quality netbook dedicated to Shadowrun
Magic?

Winter Wolfe Arcane
arcaneacuity@****.com

"When our hatred is violent, it sinks us even beneath those we hate."
-Francois de la Rochefoucauld
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 01:40:41 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Bull's Kids, our latest run,
and more Tinner EVIL! (was Re: Living material linkst)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 09:27 PM 7/13/97 +0100, Spike wrote these timeless words:

>|Any suggestions for combining this with blood magic for a truly hideous
>|ritual?
>
>Oooooohohohooo.... You are being an evil GM....
>Not one of Bulls kids though.... Pretty please?
>:)
>
Thanks Spike... Glad to see someone who DOESN'T want to see me get fragged
over yet again (Or at least my kids...:)). :]

Anyways, we got to play our once a monbth Shadowrun Campign again this
weekend. It was a continuation of the Space Run we did against the Horror
Artificer last month or so.

I get a call from Mr. Ares himself, Damion Knight, again. I really dread
getting those type of calls, because how do you tell him no, especially
when he pays so well??

Anyways, one of Tinner's possible "Chicago Solutions" was the Neutron Bomb
thta Ares had developed. No property damage, but would frag everything
living. the only problem with that is it would only get the Fleshforms,
not the spirits, so the idea was scrapped, and apparenty the bomb was
stored on Ares' Space Station. Well, unfortunately, while we were playing
Tag with Artificer and Mr. Darke, we managed to crash the space station.

Well, most of it came down around Australia, but not all of it. A large
chunk came down in the caribean area... the Bermuda Triangle to be
precise. Lovely. And that where we came in. Apparently the portion that
fell there had the bomb in it...

So we have to go underwater now...

This run really went into some semi-real Voodoo mythos, since one of our
players, Sangre, is a Voodoun following Ghede (sp?). And Tinner lifted a
lot of his ideas for this from the Dream park Book "California Voodoo
Games" (Good book, btw:)).

Anyways, Sangre has been seeing all these visoins involving a giant squid
or octopus or something, and the destruction of the world, and somehow it's
linked to the Voodoo Loa's, and the Neutron Bomb that Ares built.

So we get hired for this mission, and get shipped down to the caribbean
aboard a small Aircraft Carrier, where we're sipposed to be going aboard a
Sub...

We head out and start searching fr the wreckage in the sub with just our
team and the sub capation (I cant even remember his name now...:)). We
find nothing except for a crapload of scared Merrow, who are leaving the
area because of something called the Namo. We get back to the aircraft
carrier, and that's when the drek hits the fan...

The entire crew of the carrier (except for the Sub pilot... Boomer! that's
his name!:)) ends up being Namo (They're apparently these fish-men that can
imitate other people) and a bunch of them turn into duplicates of us,
including stats and skills! Ack!. Frtunately we didn;t take on our own
duplicates...;]

Anyways, between Johnny using magic fingers to pitch a stack of depth
charges across the deck, and Boomer ripping into things with a Firelance
Laser, we manage to escape (and blow up an Ares Big Boat!:)), so we run to
a hidden harbor in Jamaica run by a gun-runner named Reilly (And Eddie
Torres... But I'll let you ask Tinner about him. He was silly...:))

We re-equip, and get a better fix on the location of the wreckage from
Reilly, and head back out. Mr. White goes down in a Deep Sea suit, and we
find the wreckage. Unfortuantely, he gets attacked by yet another Namo
(Who we nicknamed Sea-Stacks, after the recent LotL thread...:)) and almost
gets his Suit ruptured...:] He manages to harppon the thing, and we find
an address scratched into the wall of the wreckage, and the Bomb is gone.
The Address is recognized by Sangre, who is from the area, as an Address in
Kingston, jamaica.

So we head back, and get a boat from Reilly, as well as a contact who'll
get us into Jamaica. As soon as we hit Jamaica, Sangre freaks out.
Apparently, he's got a s[plit personality, and this is the first time it's
come out around Bull and Johnny, so we were clueless. Sangre's other
personality is a completely mundane norm who was really freaked. We had to
knock him out to keep him from running off.

While Mr. White takes care of Sangre's other personality, I go shopping for
some supplies, and to pick up a vehice to get around jamaica in. I go to
the rental place,and they demand sixteen forms of ID (The best ID I had on
me was the one giving to me by Reilly's contact, which read "Neil t.O.B."
(figure that one out, kids,....:)) plus a Credit Card #, just ion case
"something" happens to the car. So I say fuck it, and tell them I want to
*BUY* something. they say what, and I say I need a van of some kind. Next
thing i know, I'm shelling out 100K for a Hover Van painted up like the
Mystery Mahine! :] Well worth 100K, if you ask me... In fact, I paid to
have the thing shipped back to cleveland after the run...;]

Anyways, I get back, and Ghede has possesed Sangre and is DETERMINED to go
to the church. In fact, he demands it, so we go.

We get there, and there is a note on the alter of the church (which was
Sangre's Alter Ego's home church) for Sangre, which says Kneel and pray.
Sangre goes up to read it, and the floor drops out from under him. he
falls, and we, of course, jump in after him...:]

Anyways, we land in a room that is sealed off by a Ward, and Bullet Proof
glass. On the other side, we see someone who is SUPPOSED to be dead, a guy
named Ramirez. Sangre had killed him earlier, and had turned him into a
worker Loa (Or whatever the Voodoo dudes do. Those rules are more than a
little fuzzy for me...:)). When we went into space, Sangre lost his link
to Ramirez, and now he was just turning up. He is also holding someone who
turns out to be Sangre's Son. At some point earlier in his life, Sangre
had been married. A nd while married, had slept with his Wife's Best friend
(Or was it his best friend's wife? Either way...) and gotten her pregnant,
though he never new about that. Ramirez was working up some Blood Magic to
burn one big ass spell into Sangre, and was using his Son to do it (Thus
Tinner's original thread).

Ramirez then proceeds to, in typical villain fashion, reveal his plans to
us. He was planning to summon one of the "Elder Gods" (A Horror) back to
the world, namely Cthulhu! (Thus the Squid/tentacles in Sangre's Visions)
To do this, he was preparing one big ass Blood Magic Ritual, involving
killing every living being in Kingston with the Neutron bomb!!!! Ack!

So he takes his leave, and statrts venting Clorine gas into this glass
chamber that we're stuck in, so Johnny and Sangre get to work on the
Ward?Barrier and me and Mr. White abuse the Bullet Proof glass (THICK
bullet proof glass).

We manage to get out and defeat a dozen or so more of these Namo, and then
beat Ramirez, who turns out to be working with/for Mr. Darke now. His eyes
(Which Sangre had cut out at some point) popped out and became a couple
dozen Watcher Spirits designed to pop every Spell Lock, Focus, and
Quickening in the room. So several of our quickenings need fixed...:(

Anyways, the Bomb ends up being buried a few feet below us, so Johnny
soummons up a big Earth Spirit to dig it up for us, and Me and Whitey go to
work trying to disarm it. the first thing to deal with is when we pop the
access hatch on it, there is a jury rigged (But not an Adam Jury Rigged:))
BIG RED BUTTON hooked up to let someone anually detonate the bomb just by
pushing the button. Also, there is a Watcher that was told to push the
button if the hatch was opened waiting inside the hatch.

So Johnny BARELY manages to pop the spirit before it pushes the button, and
we barel;y manage to disarm the thing before it goes off... And once
again, we save the world...:]

Ya know, I really HATE saving the world...

However, we were offered an Island for this run, plus w each got 100K
Nuyen, so all in all it wasnp;t too bad. However, we did get the living
Drek kicked out of us... I used up all 24 of my karma pool, as well as 8 of
our team pool keeping my ass alive, and I know everyone else was in similar
shape. hell, at one point, I got hit with 10D stun stuff, staged up 12
FRAGGING TIMES!!! (Tinner would have to pick a time like that to role all
successes... <grin>)

Fun run, but I'm REALLY ready to retire now...:] Argh...:]

I just need Cyberpirates, Rigger 2.0, an Eyepatch, and a Parrot, and I'm
set... Argh matey!!! :]

Bull-the-I-hope-you-enjoyed-story-time-Ork-Decker
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 01:55:11 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Origins: Saturday Night Hive!
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:38 AM 7/14/97 -0400, Greg Childress wrote these timeless words:
>Geez, I just got something like 450 messages after our server was down for
>three days! Anyway, in a few days I and my intrepid band of role-playing
>companions will be hitting the road (Ouch, dammit I wish they'd use softer
>concrete!) for Columbus. We'll be gm'ing the Shadowrun Tournament
>"Saturday Night Hive" on Thursday, Friday and Saturday and I'll probably be
>around running some demos if the FASA folks want me to so if you're there
>drop on by and say "Hi" Get in to the tournament if you can it should be
>pretty cool.
>
Hoi Greg...

I'll probably be around, though i'm not sure yet if I will make it or not
(This relies on me picking up some cash this week...:])

I'm going to try and get in Staurday Night Hive because it sounds like a
blast, and bugs are always fun... (Though don;t expect Mr. White to
agree...:)).

Anyways, who else is making it to Origins? Just curios... We've been
talking about Gen Con so much, we've neglected the other con...:]

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 02:16:54 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Bull's Kids,
our latest run,and more Tinner EVIL! (was Re: Living material
linkst)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> I get a call from Mr. Ares himself, Damion Knight, again. I really dread
> getting those type of calls, because how do you tell him no, especially
> when he pays so well??

Currently, they have managed to hit Mr. Knight up for a yacht, (The BIG one
from RBB), and are making arrangements for a private island off the coast
of N'awlins.
The island will probably be a garbage dump similar to the Gomi island
Gibson wrote about.

> This run really went into some semi-real Voodoo mythos, since one of our
> players, Sangre, is a Voodoun following Ghede (sp?). And Tinner lifted a
> lot of his ideas for this from the Dream park Book "California Voodoo
> Games" (Good book, btw:)).

CFG in turn stole a lot of ideas from Chariots of the Gods.
Essentially saying that the ancient indian and aztech gods were actually
beings from space.
This in turn reminded me of Lovecraft's notions of Great Old Ones living in
space, and of course tied in with my good friends, the Horrors!

> We head out and start searching fr the wreckage in the sub with just our
> team and the sub capation (I cant even remember his name now...:)). We
> find nothing except for a crapload of scared Merrow, who are leaving the
> area because of something called the Namo.

Actually that's Nommo, a race of fish men that supposedly predate modern
voodoo.
They used a similar system of sympathetic magic.
Also, the whole underwater motif fit nicely with the legends of Atlantis,
as well as the Voodoo legend of Guinee, the City Beneath the Sea.
And since Cthulu is often referred to as rising from the ocean, I figured
where better than the Bermuda Triangle?

> The entire crew of the carrier (except for the Sub pilot... Boomer!
that's
> his name!:)) ends up being Namo (They're apparently these fish-men that
can
> imitate other people) and a bunch of them turn into duplicates of us,
> including stats and skills! Ack!. Frtunately we didn;t take on our own
> duplicates...;]

Actually, the crew weren't Nommo, they were replaced by Deep Ones, who had
been altered by Ramirez and Mr. Darke to enable them to mimic the PC's
exactly.
Visions of Dire Wraiths, Rom and Mucous Tick dancing through my head!

> Anyways, between Johnny using magic fingers to pitch a stack of depth
> charges across the deck, and Boomer ripping into things with a Firelance
> Laser, we manage to escape (and blow up an Ares Big Boat!:)), so we run
to
> a hidden harbor in Jamaica run by a gun-runner named Reilly (And Eddie
> Torres... But I'll let you ask Tinner about him. He was silly...:))

Anyone seen the Cheech and Chong movie "Still Smokin'"?
I just saw it the other night, and in there they do a bit about making a
movie called ET, except in their version, it stands for Eddie Torres, or
Extra Testicle.
Anywho, Cheech Marin wears this silly green ET nightshirt, and puts star
shaped deely bobbers on his head and walks around like a robot making
"beep-beep" noises and grabbing people's breasts.
I took one look and that bit and immediately decided that Eddie Torres was
a drugged out mage ... don't know why, but it made sense at the time, and
the runners needed a contact in Jamacia who knew some local history.

> So we head back, and get a boat from Reilly, as well as a contact who'll
> get us into Jamaica. As soon as we hit Jamaica, Sangre freaks out.
> Apparently, he's got a s[plit personality, and this is the first time
it's
> come out around Bull and Johnny, so we were clueless. Sangre's other
> personality is a completely mundane norm who was really freaked. We had
to
> knock him out to keep him from running off.

Briefly, Sangre was chosen by Ghede after he discovered his family and wife
killed by Ramirez.
Sangre's was then known as Pablo somthing-or-other, and was a generally
nice guy.
His dad was a big man on the island, and wanted to keep the BTL trade off,
(leaving the native pot farmers in business ;-))
Ramirez had him geeked.
When Pablo found the bodies, Ghede answered his call for power for
vengeance, and thus Sangre was created.
After killing a LOT of BTL runners, Sangre fled to the states.
His return to Jamacia snapped him back into Pablo mode until Ghede could
reassert control.

Oh yeah, the loa wanted the runners help desperetely, as if Cthulu WAS
summoned, his appearance would destroy Guinee.

> Anyways, we land in a room that is sealed off by a Ward, and Bullet Proof
> glass. On the other side, we see someone who is SUPPOSED to be dead, a
guy
> named Ramirez. Sangre had killed him earlier, and had turned him into
a
> worker Loa (Or whatever the Voodoo dudes do. Those rules are more than a
> little fuzzy for me...:)). When we went into space, Sangre lost his link
> to Ramirez, and now he was just turning up.

Ramirez went free, joined Mr. Darke and made a deal with the devil, so to
speak.

> He is also holding someone who
> turns out to be Sangre's Son. At some point earlier in his life, Sangre
> had been married. A nd while married, had slept with his Wife's Best
friend
> (Or was it his best friend's wife? Either way...) and gotten her
pregnant,
> though he never new about that. Ramirez was working up some Blood Magic
to
> burn one big ass spell into Sangre, and was using his Son to do it (Thus
> Tinner's original thread).

It was his brother's wife.
We decided on this little tidbit when Sangre went on an astral quest.
When my wizards have to pass the dweller, I allow the Players to influence
just what juicy little tidbits the Dweller on the Threshold announces.
Sangre decided that this would work for him, and of course, I
whole-heartedly threw it into the mix!

> We manage to get out and defeat a dozen or so more of these Namo, and
then
> beat Ramirez, who turns out to be working with/for Mr. Darke now. His
eyes
> (Which Sangre had cut out at some point) popped out and became a couple
> dozen Watcher Spirits designed to pop every Spell Lock, Focus, and
> Quickening in the room. So several of our quickenings need fixed...:(

Force 6 watchers with the only instruction being to POP every lock, focus,
or quickening they can reach.
Johnny was REAL worried for a moment, cause unless memory fails me has has
a total of like 12 quickenings, and foci on him.
Yes, we use focus addiction, but he's far too strong to fall to it, and
besides AFAIK, quickeneings do NOT tally into that, right?

> However, we were offered an Island for this run, plus w each got 100K
> Nuyen, so all in all it wasnp;t too bad. However, we did get the living
> Drek kicked out of us... I used up all 24 of my karma pool, as well as 8
of
> our team pool keeping my ass alive, and I know everyone else was in
similar
> shape. hell, at one point, I got hit with 10D stun stuff, staged up 12
> FRAGGING TIMES!!! (Tinner would have to pick a time like that to role
all
> successes... <grin>)

That was a truly obscene roll.
I was rolling 20+ dice, and almost all came up successes.
Bull was being tag-teamed by a group of 4 Deep Ones.
Those "Friends in Melee" rules are rough!

> I just need Cyberpirates, Rigger 2.0, an Eyepatch, and a Parrot, and I'm
> set... Argh matey!!! :]

And a clean pair of shorts!
Oh the plans I have for Capn' Bull ...
EGMLOL!!!!

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"Uh-oh! Chongo!"
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 23:22:34 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Spaceman <spaced@*.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject: [OT] Re: Origins: Saturday Night Hive!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970714015538.2df7e11c@*****.com>

>>>>> Bull didst say unto the aether thusly:

# Anyways, who else is making it to Origins? Just curios... We've been
# talking about Gen Con so much, we've neglected the other con...:]

Harumph! "_the_ other con" indeed! Y'know, there're other gigs out
there, like Dragonflight up here in Seattle. ;P

Only prob with Dragonflight is a severe dearth of SR events. You'd
think in the original SR town there'd be a few events, but last year there
was only one scheduled (a couple got added the second day at _very_ short
notice.) And at this date, there's only two scheduled (and I'm running one of
those). Urgh.

So, anybody joining me at Dragonflight?

The Spaceman |Drinking decaf is like masturbating
spaced@*.washington.edu |And faking orgasm.
Check out the Bill Page! | - T-Shirt Slogan
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~spaced/bill.html
New maintainer of the Shadowrun Player Directory:
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~spaced/srdir/
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 02:27:10 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Whatever happend to the photos?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Maybe Steve K, or Mike could better answer this question, but ... Does
anyone know

A - Who took those cool photos that are in the Seattle and London
Sourcebooks?
B - Why (aside from price) FASA stopped using photos in their books?

I always like them, but being a photo minor in college, that's to be
expected. ;-)

Also, we're thinking of dressing up a certain Ork Decker, and need some
suggestions for how to make DURABLE, easy to weat tucksm and ear points.

The greenish skin tone comes natural to Bull, so that shouldn't be a
problem ... ;-)

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"Uh-oh! Chongo!"
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:08:16 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells -- Level 6?
In-Reply-To: <2A30324B41@**.opp.psu.edu>

> Heck, in the book, Dirk himself admits that he's just a lurker at the
> edges...he's pretty overwhelmed by Argent and the other "real"
> shadowrunners.

Some people on the list seem to have this certain point of view...
Shadowrunners are just street-junk, unable to get a normal job for
whatever reasons... And I wanted to say that I do not share this
view. On the contrary, I see runners much more like special forces
troopers...
Somebody mentioned that dirk were his favorite runner... And my point
was to express that dirk is NO runner.

> P.S. 2XS one of my favorite...probably second favorite after
> changling.

Mine too... the book is very good...

ss
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:16:14 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: Re: 2XS/Dirk Montgomery (Was Combat Spells -- Level 6?)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970710145352.006fdf00@****.lis.ab.ca>

> Dirk is probably my favourite SR character to appear in FASA published
> stuff. Merely because he's not some shit-hot runner with tons of cybermods
> or magical skills. He's somewhere between 'ordinary guy' and
> 'shadowrunner', and to me, it represents the majority of the shadowrunning
> community. The non-elite.
> -Aj

Strange thought, if you ask me... What is wrong with tons of
cybermods and magical skills? That's what shadowrun is
all about...(aside from the roleplaying itself)
Runners have to own very special talents, eather cyber or magic (or
rigging, or decking.....). It's their job.
They are no ordinary guys. They are the elite.

And before another one calls me munch... having a powerful
character is certailnly not munchkinism... my characters have always
been extremely powerful, but nevertheless I'm a roleplayer, no
powergamer.

ss
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:27:25 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: Re: Back to spoiler spaces, but don;t even *THINK*
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970711155635.2e47d9c2@*****.com>

> Ok Sliver, before this goes any further, and Spike goes off on you,
> remember that Spolier *SPACES* are in the FAQ. If you haven't read it, ask
> Fro for it and memorize it.

FAQ, FAQ... Me for example, I have never recieved the FAQ... could
have happened to this guy, too.

> Spikes Mailer is like mine. It automatically opens the next message in teh
> queue, so when you put a spoiler on the top line of your post, well... He
> sees it. period. Doesn;t matter if he doesn'tr want to read it or not.
> it's there. Putting "(Possible spoilers)" in the subject line does drek
> for us, cause we don;t see the subject line till we've seen the post.
>Bull

Just a thought... Have you ever thought about stopping reading as
soon as you realize there are spoilers in the mail?
You shouldn't see more than one or two lines then...
And they can't spoil too much, can they?

ss (who dares writing this, knowing that bull is one of the
civilized listmembers who will answer in a polite
language, won't he?)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:38:58 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: Re: Surgery costs
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970710194339.00706464@******.com>

> I think that hardware is less expesive than surgery. Just look on Pathfinder project.
Pathfinder
> cost 150.000.000USD but launching of it, landing etc. was far more
> expensive. Same thing with cyberwar>
> yASIu...

Well, Ok, thats your opinion... But comparing surgery with a flight
to mars....
And another thing... could you do something about your mails? eg. set
the column widt to 70? Would make them easier to read...

ss
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 01:07:50 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Optional Metatypes, part 3: Sasquatch
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

People wrote:

> >My impression is that they are unable to assimilate spoken language;
> the
> >idea just doesn't work for them.
>
> Well, medically that same condition can arise in humans... that is a
> person can hear and understand spoken speach perfectly fine, but are
> almost completely unable to speak coherently. themselves. It had to
> do
> with the connections between the parts of the brain for speech and
> comprehension/cognitive activity (or something... the "Mind, Brain,
> and
> Behavior" class that I took was two quarters ago.)

Aphasia. The neurolinguistical term used to refer to any acquired (as
opposed to developmental) language disorder that follows a focal
(localised) brain lesion caused by a stroke, tumour, gunshot wound, or
an infection. (The main ones are: Broca's, Wernicke's, and a combination
of the two, Global Aphasia.) (And yep, I snuck it from one of my old
texts. The dust on it was something to be feared.)

Going on with that in mind, an Aphasia born to Sasquatch? Possible. This
would mean that there was some malformation in the Sasquatch's brain
that affected their ability to produce language. (And this means (in the
case of Sasquatch born Sasquatch) that the problem is no longer a case
of Aphasia.)

For all we know, Sasquatch speak the language from the Tower of Babel,
and therefore can understand us, but since we lost the ability to speak
it... (Snowcrash, anyone?) (Hey, wouldn't the old geezer's (Dragons,
IE...) be able to understand Sasquatches then? )

--

Dvixen Code-word : Weevil-chuck. dvixen@********.com
"And I thought First Ones were rare." - Ivanova - Babylon 5
First High Priest of the Church of the Squooshy Ball.
Vodka corrupts. Abolut Vodka corrupts absolutely.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 03:42:39 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: 2XS/Dirk Montgomery (Was Combat Spells -- Level 6?)
In-Reply-To: <189DE9B7D58@********.uibk.ac.at>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 09:16 7/14/97 +0100, you wrote:
>
>Strange thought, if you ask me... What is wrong with tons of
>cybermods and magical skills?

Nothing.

>That's what shadowrun is all about...(aside from the roleplaying itself)

Uh, no.

>Runners have to own very special talents, eather cyber or magic (or
>rigging, or decking.....). It's their job.
>They are no ordinary guys. They are the elite.

And how many of these 'Runners' are there in the world? 1 in 100,000,
Maybe. I don't see Shadowrun as a world just for these elite badass
runners. Its a world for everyone, and everyone has to find a place.
Everyone starts somewhere, nobody starts out as 'elite'. There is a huge
giant gap between what I would call a 'shadowrunner' and what I would call
a 'character I play in Shadowrun'.

-Adam
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 03:44:44 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells -- Level 6?
In-Reply-To: <189BCD724F8@********.uibk.ac.at>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 09:08 7/14/97 +0100, you wrote:
>Somebody mentioned that dirk were his favorite runner... And my point
>was to express that dirk is NO runner.

Nobody said he was. Nobody said Shadowrun had to be just about
shadowrunners, either.

-Adam

-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:30:07 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: cyberware and it's effects on the psyche and body
In-Reply-To: <19970713231958.AAA10495@****.cyberspace.com>
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Kim Christiansen said on 16:15/13 Jul 97...

> So, on this topic, I just finished reading Never Deal With A Dragon again,
> and there was this dude named Radley in the book that was definite
> Cyber-Psychosis. He was flat out wacked. How do you fit that into the game
> via SR rules.

AFAIK, you don't.

> I have a character in my game that unless his CyberWare wasn't
> Alpha grade, he'd be a cyberzombie. He played it cool, detached, not quite
> human. But would it manifest itself as a detachment from humanity or a
> revenge on humanity??????????????

If you ask me, no. I don't believe that cyberpsychosis as CP2020
introduced it would happen to someone getting lots of cyberware. I'd
venture that the person you're referring to has either gone crazy through
"conventional" means, or was already a lunatic before he got the cyberware
installed (and what sane person would have major body parts removed to be
replaced by cyberware anyway?).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:30:07 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Spell types (was Re: Centering vs Penalties)
In-Reply-To: <970713122044_-558624050@*******.mail.aol.com>
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J. Keith Henry said on 12:20/13 Jul 97...

> > SR rulebooks don't, AFAIK, say anything about having to have a target on
> > which an area-effect spell must be centered, and I allow any spell,
> > including combat spells, to be aimed at a point in space.
> >
> Then I really hope you also allow for those people caught in the area effect
> of such spells to have access to their armor for resisting the damage.

Why should area-effect combat spells be resisted by armor if they can be
aimed at a point in space? DMs sure, they attack from the outside, but
combat spells attack from inside out. I'd like to see body armor that
protects against that...

Furthermore, I don't see what the big fuss is about -- there is no
difference to the resistance if an area-effect combat spell is aimed at a
person or a meter beside him/her.

> "Ground" is a target 3 or 4 in the book, sidewalk is a bit
> higher...etcetera. That could stage up the damage really, bloodily, fast.

Would you mind running that by me again? I have no clue what you're
talking about...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:30:07 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Living material links
In-Reply-To: <970713153434_848179873@*******.mail.aol.com>
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J. Keith Henry said on 15:34/13 Jul 97...

> Actually, it's the second strongest link in the game mechanics. The first is
> the Mother's Connectivity (she carried him longer, more "aura brushoff" as
it
> were.

But that's not going to help if a bunch of magicians want to get to the
kid's _father_...

> > Any suggestions for combining this with blood magic for a truly hideous
> > ritual?
> >
> Actually, there are tons of them ... but I'm not going to help "spread the
> disease of wicked gmness..." ;)

Tinner is beyond rescue already :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:30:07 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: SR I question
In-Reply-To: <199707131527.BAA17137@******.its.uow.edu.au>
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Damion Milliken said on 1:27/14 Jul 97...

> Unfortunately, no - I decided that lurking was boring (I was reading all
> these cool threads that I wanted to post comments about, but couldn't since
> they were from October last year... :-)).

I know what you mean, when I read through saved posts of a year or so ago
I sometimes have the same urge :)

> I hope he's got a lot of time to collate all of the suggestions he'll get.
> I've got some 30 points to bring up... Do people think it would be better
> to:
>
> a) Send such suggestions directly to Steve?

That way none of us will get to comment on them...

> b) Post suggestions collated in one big message so that those who couldn't
> care less can nuke them easily?
> c) Post suggestions individually so that they can be discussed by the list?

How about a combination of b and c? Put 5 or 10 suggestions in one
message, so it doesn't get too big, but there aren't 30 post either?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:49:23 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Fluffy? (Was: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,)
In-Reply-To: <01IL74ZBKNEA9I56XP@******.acs.muohio.edu> from "Bruce H.
Nagel"
at Jul 13, 97 06:34:11 pm
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|
|You wrote:
|> The point is, 20 years ago, words like SOD and BUGGER were unacceptable.
|> Who's to say that 'Fuck' won't have lost all power to offend by then?
|> (And what's the use of a good swear word if it doesn't have some power
|> behind it?)

|Actually, it's really lost its power to offend anyone but the really sensitive
|even today. It's bland now, overused, and can't really get to you.

My point exactly....
I imagine "FRAG" and "DREK" have much more insulting/disturbing/filthy
connotations than "FUCK", in the rwal Shadowrun world....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:50:33 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Area of Effect Spells and Astral Targeting
In-Reply-To: <01IL75XDG6LA9I56XP@******.acs.muohio.edu> from "Bruce H.
Nagel"
at Jul 13, 97 06:59:34 pm
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|One neat little side-note: if you're ever blinded by darkness, and want to
|shoot someone (not cast spells at them, that isn't possible without Thermo),
|assense, take the +2 for acting physically while assensing, and use Gaia's glow
|to see them and shoot. :) A small trick, but occasionally very useful.

I've used that very technique against invisible Mages before now....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:00:27 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Area of Effect Spells and Astral Targeting
In-Reply-To: <01IL7D3OJ8O29I555E@******.acs.muohio.edu> from "Bruce H.
Nagel"
at Jul 13, 97 10:24:13 pm
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|It has nothing to do with game balance, it's the way the mechanics are
|explained. You have to physically see the target to tell the spell how to
|ground into it from the astral. Casting a spell on a target in the physical
|world is partially a matter of synchronizing auras, and partly a matter of
|physical (visual) targeting. The two are both necessary, either part left out
|makes it impossible to cast.

Not IMpossible, just more difficult.
YOu'd need a link to ground through, like a spell lock if you cast while
assensing.....

|Though if you are casting a spell while assensing, you don't suffer the +2, as
|it's for non-magical activities.

Twoo.... Vewy twoo....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:25:40 +0300
Reply-To: Technomancer <arvanit@***.uch.gr>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Technomancer <arvanit@***.UCH.GR>
Subject: Deckers raiding party...
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I am thinking of running my decker through a massive attack on a VERY hot
host. He will just be one of the many deckers hired there, but there is
just a slight 8) problem...

Nowhere in the SR or the VR 2.0 is an explicit rule about deckers running
together in the same host. There is just a statement of a decker going
into a system alerted, having the same security tally with the system.

From this, and a discussion with my decker player, I have come upon the
following rules:

Deckers co-existance (version 1.0b)
o It is every man for himself, as long as the system doesn't notice.
If the system is not in an alerted mode (passive or active), the security
tally for each decker is personal.

o When the drek hits the fan, all should take cover.
When the system becomes alerted (from nothing to passive, from passive to
active alert) the security talies of all the illegal icons in the system
are set to the minimum required to set off this alert, except of the
triggering decker's, which is as normal.

o It is a brave new world...
If a decker's security tally raises due to a state change caused by
another, no events from the previous states are triggered, but what was
active remains so. The only trigger that activates is the one in this new
security tally, those jumped over remains inert.

What do you think? Is this close to how you solved the problem?
Also, related:
If a decker fights an IC, can others help him?
And whom will the IC attack then?

*********************************************************************
* Technomancer * Modesty is one of my countless virtues *
* arvanit@***.uch.gr *
* http://www.csd.uch.gr/~arvanit/ *
*********************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:32:50 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Back to spoiler spaces, but don;t even *THINK*
In-Reply-To: <18A0E781D68@********.uibk.ac.at> from "Simon T. Sailer" at
Jul
14, 97 09:27:25 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|Just a thought... Have you ever thought about stopping reading as
|soon as you realize there are spoilers in the mail?
|You shouldn't see more than one or two lines then...
|And they can't spoil too much, can they?

The spoiling post in question was only 2 lines long.
I didn't want to know ANYTHING about B5.
I didn't want any hint on what happened to Mr Garibaldi, and I certainly
didn't want to know he got amnesia and later got his memory back!

| ss (who dares writing this, knowing that bull is one of the
| civilized listmembers who will answer in a polite
| language, won't he?)

Even Bull's been known to fly off the handle occasionally.

Anyway, from this point on, ANYONE writing ANYTHING that might contain ANY
spoilers, whatsoever, LEAVE 30 BLANK LINES! (With the top line saying
"SPOILER FOR <WHATEVER>"
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:07:58 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Area of Effect Spells and Astral Targeting

On Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:00:27 +0100 Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
writes:

>Not IMpossible, just more difficult.
>YOu'd need a link to ground through, like a spell lock if you cast while
>assensing.....

Why would you need a link to ground through if you're only perceiving?
You'd need one if you're projecting, but if you're perceiving you're
already on the physical plane, you don't need to do anything really major
(like grounding through an active focus) to cast a spell at a purely
physical target.

--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:07:58 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Net Books

On Mon, 14 Jul 1997 01:19:45 -0400 Charles R Joseph
<arcaneacuity@****.COM> writes:
> I've been out of the loop for quite some time, and was
>wondering if there were currently any shadowrun netbooks in
>developement. Also, has there ever been a respectable quality netbook
>dedicated to Shadowrun Magic?

Well, the NERPS list has got the Neo-Anarchist's Guide to the World in
the works right now, Gurth or one of NERPS people (which does not include
me) can probably fill you in there. There's also some work going on with
a Newbie's Guide to Shadowrun, which Bull can probably best tell you
about:) As for a net.magic sourcebook, I don't know of any .net
sourcebook even really about magic, specifically.

--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 08:45:53 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Physical Adept Powers
In-Reply-To: <199707140223.WAA13139@******.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Sun, 13 Jul 1997, Aaron Jones wrote:

> With the recent posts about physical adepts (and me playing my
> first), I was wondering what (if any) new powers other people had come up
> with. Any takers?
>
The "Morph", "Body Morph", "Chameleon" power that was
discussed a while
ago here was really fun. I have had a ball playing that character. I
need to search through my old stuff I think that I may have accidentally
deleted it. There should be something in the archives though.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 07:52:36 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: [OT] Happy Fun Ball!!
In-Reply-To: <199707140442.WAA20673@******> from "GRANITE" at Jul 13,
97 10:37:52 pm
Content-Type: text

GRANITE wrote:
|
| Since nobody else mentioned it..I'll do it..
|
| M
| I
| C
| R
| O
|
| S
| P
| O
| I
| L
| E
| R
|
| F
| O
| R
|
| M
| i
| B
|
|
|
|
|
| Did anyone else Notice the Happy Fum Ball [TM] in MiB?? I started
| laughing in the theater as soon as I Saw it..My wife thought I was
| crazy...

Are you talking about that ball that went bouncing all over the
place? Or was it somewhere else? (If so, please let me know so I
can look for it when I see the movie again.) BTW, that movie Ruled!

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 07:57:42 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Living material links
In-Reply-To: <199707131645.KAA27160@******> from "Steven A. Tinner" at
Jul 13,
97 12:47:01 pm
Content-Type: text

Steven A. Tinner wrote:
|
[snip: using a runner's kid against him]
|
| Any suggestions for combining this with blood magic for a truly hideous
| ritual?

None whatsoever. However, I'd love to know what you figure out
(being an EGM and having a PC that has a child).

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 07:58:31 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Hacking
In-Reply-To: <199707131618.KAA26951@******> from "Drekhead" at Jul 14,
97 12:14:34 pm
Content-Type: text

Drekhead wrote:
|
| On 12 Jul 97 at 23:49, Adam J wrote:
|
| > I would disagree with this one. I thought that the 'Paperless'
| > office was supposed to have already happened, but I don't see it..
| > My 'office', as it is, is piled high with paper. Print outs,
| > magazines, books, everything. I realize the matrix is supposed to
| > be integrated much more than todays computer networks, but I can
| > still see stacks of paper and books on peoples desks.
|
| Absolutely. Management would not be able to function without their
| pounds and pounds of hardcopy.

An then along comes Human Resources which increases the ammount of
paper by a factor of x10.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 08:04:54 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Dwarven Opera Singer (Was - Re: SLARP v1.2)
In-Reply-To: <199707121505.JAA17261@******> from "Caric" at Jul 12,
97 07:21:17 am
Content-Type: text

Caric wrote:
|
| | > I let my players create their own contacts (with approval from me).
| |
| | If only they all had that much motivation. ;) I create the actual
| | contacts, but they create their history with them. Thus, they decide how
| | they met, etc.
|
| Dangerous, very dangerous. Make 'em hang themselves eh? ;)

Oh yes <BEGMG>. The better the contact, the more baggage he's got.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 08:04:39 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Re: [OT] Happy Fun Ball!!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> |
> | Since nobody else mentioned it..I'll do it..
> |
> | M
> | I
> | C
> | R
> | O
> |
> | S
> | P
> | O
> | I
> | L
> | E
> | R
> |
> | F
> | O
> | R
> |
> | M
> | i
> | B
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> | Did anyone else Notice the Happy Fum Ball [TM] in MiB?? I started
> | laughing in the theater as soon as I Saw it..My wife thought I was
> | crazy...
>
> Are you talking about that ball that went bouncing all over the
> place? Or was it somewhere else?

None other...It contains all of the properties..Although I never
realised the Happy Fun Balls come from outer space..

>.....BTW, that movie Ruled!

Yes..it did..I went twice.. :)
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 08:18:19 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: [OT] Little Wooden Boy
In-Reply-To: <199707121528.JAA17404@******> from "Caric" at Jul 12,
97 07:59:21 am
Content-Type: text

Caric wrote:
|
| | > Basically every one that's been mentioned so far. Plus, the original
| | > Scooby Doo, Captain Caveman, Bullwinkle... And then the Smurfs came
| | > along and it went downhill from their. Only recently have cartoons
| | > made a comeback with Reboot, Alladin, Superman, Batman, Darkwing
| | > Duck, and others.
| |
| | David, please, how can you forget THE TICK?
| |
| | For god's sake man....
| |
| |
| | SPOON!
|
| I am anxiously awaiting the arrival of the "Little Wooden Boy" action
| figure. :)

Five pieces of wood, some old chain from a playground swing, and a
sodering gun, and you've got your own little wooden boy :)

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:14:36 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mike bernico <mbernico@****.K12.IL.US>
Subject: Re: [OT] Little Wooden Boy
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

David Buehrer wrote:

> Caric wrote:
> |
> | | > Basically every one that's been mentioned so far. Plus, the
> original
> | | > Scooby Doo, Captain Caveman, Bullwinkle... And then the Smurfs
> came
> | | > along and it went downhill from their. Only recently have
> cartoons
> | | > made a comeback with Reboot, Alladin, Superman, Batman, Darkwing
>
> | | > Duck, and others.
> | |
> | | David, please, how can you forget THE TICK?
> | |
> | | For god's sake man....
> | |
> | |
> | | SPOON!
> |
> | I am anxiously awaiting the arrival of the "Little Wooden Boy"
> action
> | figure. :)
>
> Five pieces of wood, some old chain from a playground swing, and a
> sodering gun, and you've got your own little wooden boy :)
>
> -David
> http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
> --
> "Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
> which ones to keep."

No, your wrong, little wooden boy is REAL!!!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 08:29:53 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: (Skill+Att)/2
In-Reply-To: <199707120946.DAA14761@******> from "Gurth" at Jul 12,
97 11:38:43 am
Content-Type: text

Gurth wrote:
|
| David Buehrer said on 13:50/11 Jul 97...
|
| Now I'm even thinking on the same wavelength as David. I must be getting
| senile... :)

Nope. If you're on the same wavelength as Spike, you're getting senile.
If you're on the same wavelength as me you've crossed the fine line between
creativity and... uh, something :)

| > Hmm. And if you don't have a related skill all you would get would
| > be the bonus dice, if any (instead of tracing through the skill
| > web) with, say, a +1 modifier to the TN.
|
| The only problem here is how do you attempt tasks for which you don't have
| the skill _and_ the related Attribute isn't high enough to give bonus
| dice? Unless of course you want to keep the skill web, but it looks to me
| like the whole point of trying to incorporate Attributes into skill tests
| is to do away with that.

Well, I'd like to see a system that doesn't necessarily allow a character
to default to every skill. When I first started playing we misinterpreted
the rules and subtracted 2 dice per dot. A character with low attributes
couldn't default to everything. However, Fubar the Troll didn't need to
take any combat skills because his physical attributes were so high (after
being modified by cyber- and bodyware).

If you take FoF's recoil table (or a version of it) and modify it to
equal the number of default dice per attribute and subtract one die
per dot passed through on the skill web, I *think* it would work.
And yes, a low attribute would mean that a character wouldn't be able
to default with that attribute, which IMHO is realistic.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:36:38 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: (Skill+Att)/2
In-Reply-To: <199707141429.IAA02734@******> from "David Buehrer" at Jul
14,
97 08:29:53 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

|Nope. If you're on the same wavelength as Spike, you're getting senile.
|If you're on the same wavelength as me you've crossed the fine line between
|creativity and... uh, something :)

I think I'll pretend I didn't see that......

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:48:23 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: Target: UCAS and Bug Stuff
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 04:39 AM 7/12/97 -0400, Bull wrote:
>and plan to use some of United Brotherhood

_Universal_ Brotherhood, Bull.

Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/

The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton

Gencon count down: 23 days
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:49:06 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Dwarven Opera Singer (Was - Re: SLARP v1.2)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
> Date: Monday, July 14, 1997 10:04 AM

> Caric wrote:

> Justin wrote:

> | | If only they all had that much motivation. ;) I create the actual
> | | contacts, but they create their history with them. Thus, they decide
how
> | | they met, etc.

> | Dangerous, very dangerous. Make 'em hang themselves eh? ;)

> Oh yes <BEGMG>. The better the contact, the more baggage he's got.

That is SOOOOOO true! I have one pseudo-munchkiny player who is a physical
mage and wanted his girlfriend to be a physical adept and his father to be
a mage (and an impressive one, at that). Thus, I gave him what he
wanted....and then some. His father's a wage mage for Aztechnology (grin),
and his girlfriend has LOTS of interesting things about her. First of all,
she's Japanese and won't talk about her family....hmmmm....I wonder what
that could mean.... ;) Second, she's taking medication daily, and has
given him a reason for it, but he doesn't buy her excuse and feels she is
taking it for something serious....who knows? ;)
Also, she despises shadowrunning for whatever reason and continually nags
at him to turn himself into Lone Star and get a SIN and a real job *bats
eyelashes*. ;)

Hey, you want that kind of contact, you get that kind of baggage. :)

> -David

Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:52:05 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Living material links
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
> Date: Monday, July 14, 1997 9:57 AM

> Steven A. Tinner wrote:

> [snip: using a runner's kid against him]

> | Any suggestions for combining this with blood magic for a truly hideous
> | ritual?

> None whatsoever. However, I'd love to know what you figure out
> (being an EGM and having a PC that has a child).

I am of the mind to think that because the child is a living being with his
own aura, that he cannot be used as a material link to anyone. Otherwise,
by shaking someone's hand, that person can be used as a sympathetic link to
you...ick. I believe that the TNs for sympathetic link are pretty high,
and should stay that way...and I don't think it should be made any easier
than necessary to get a link to someone with ritual sorcery.

I can't comment on the whole blood magic thing, because I don't have any
sourcebooks that cover it. :(

> -David

Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:04:27 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Happy Fun Ball!!
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 08:04 AM 7/14/97 -0700, GRANITE wrote:
>> |
>> | Since nobody else mentioned it..I'll do it..
>> |
>> | M
>> | I
>> | C
>> | R
>> | O
>> |
>> | S
>> | P
>> | O
>> | I
>> | L
>> | E
>> | R
>> |
>> | F
>> | O
>> | R
>> |
>> | M
>> | i
>> | B
>> |
>> |
>> |
>> |
>> |
>> | Did anyone else Notice the Happy Fum Ball [TM] in MiB?? I started
>> | laughing in the theater as soon as I Saw it..My wife thought I was
>> | crazy...
>>
>> Are you talking about that ball that went bouncing all over the
>> place? Or was it somewhere else?
>
>None other...It contains all of the properties..Although I never
>realised the Happy Fun Balls come from outer space..
>
First of all, you are crazy, Granite.

And don't you remember? "Happy fun ball contains a liquid core which was
discovered when it fell to earth (presumably from space)" :)

BTW: "Move when it comes at you!"

Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/

The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton

Gencon count down: 23 days
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 11:07:15 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@*****.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: cyberware and it's effects on the psyche and body
In-Reply-To: <19970713231958.AAA10495@****.cyberspace.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

On 13 Jul 97 at 16:15, Kim Christiansen wrote:

> So, on this topic, I just finished reading Never Deal With A Dragon again,
> and there was this dude named Radley in the book that was definite
> Cyber-Psychosis. He was flat out wacked. How do you fit that into the game
> via SR rules.

How do I fit it in? The guy is flat out whacked. It is a mental
condition and has nothing to do with cyberware. Are you saying that
only people with cyberware can lose their sanity? Of course not,
because it simply isn't true.

>I have a character in my game that unless his CyberWare wasn't
> Alpha grade, he'd be a cyberzombie. He played it cool, detached, not quite
> human. But would it manifest itself as a detachment from humanity or a
> revenge on humanity??????????????

Whatever way he, or any character, wants to play it.

--

=DREKHEAD========================================================
drekhead@***.net --- http://users.aol.com/drekhead/home.html ---
=================================================================
=================================================================
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot
stomping on a human face...forever. -George Orwell
=================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:09:26 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Faux Pas (Thomas)" <thomas@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Alternate Etiquette rules
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:47 AM 7/13/97 -0600, Adam J whispered:
>Well, I finally got these done up.. there's nothing earth shaking, and I
>haven't written the rules for the Etiquette skill web, or the skill web
>itself, but here goes. Comments and critisisms welcome and encouraged.
>

>Basic Etiquette Skills
>----------------
>
>Gang, Matrix, Corporate, Tribal, Street, Goverment, Tribal, Culture
>
>Etiquette (Matrix): You can operate in the matrix without making an ass of
>yourself. You can name important online places, personalities, and know
>how to behave in those places.
>Concentrations: Per location or 'other'
>Examples:
>Etiquette (Matrix) (Mailing lists), Etiquette (Matrix) (Neuro Blade)
>Etiquette (Matrix) (Crime)

Also under Matrix, you should note that several of the non-Matrix etiquette
skills now offered in various sourcebooks (Music Biz comes to mind) also
have Matrix equivalents.

-Thomas Deeny
Your Guide to Shadowrun -- http://shadowrun.miningco.com -- updated every
Wednesday!
Thomas's World is http://telltale.hart.org -- come visit!

"First I'm going to bother every one I meet, and then I'll go home and get
drunk."
-Tippy Turtle
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 11:16:19 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@*****.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Fluffy? (Was: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970713195330.007d59d0@***.iquest.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

On 13 Jul 97 at 19:53, Jaymz wrote:

> #even today. It's bland now, overused, and can't really get to you.
> I dunno, what would happen if you happened to say it to you boss??

Nothing. He says it to me all the time! :)

--

=DREKHEAD========================================================
drekhead@***.net --- http://users.aol.com/drekhead/home.html ---
=================================================================
=================================================================
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot
stomping on a human face...forever. -George Orwell
=================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:25:34 -0400
Reply-To: shergold@***********.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: SilverFire <shergold@***********.NET>
Subject: Re: 2XS/Dirk Montgomery (Was Combat Spells -- Level 6?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Adam wrote:
>
>
> >Runners have to own very special talents, eather cyber or magic (or
> >rigging, or decking.....). It's their job.
> >They are no ordinary guys. They are the elite.
>
> And how many of these 'Runners' are there in the world? 1 in 100,000,
> Maybe. I don't see Shadowrun as a world just for these elite badass
> runners. Its a world for everyone, and everyone has to find a place.
> Everyone starts somewhere, nobody starts out as 'elite'. There is a huge
> giant gap between what I would call a 'shadowrunner' and what I would
call
> a 'character I play in Shadowrun'.

I have to agree with Adam, one of my Street Sams is just a jumped up
ganger, she has a small degree of professionalism (when she has it
together, the chemicals used to adapt her body to the cyber caused an
imbalance so she's a screwed in the head. It is NOT cyberpsychosis, though
many might think it is.), but she anything but elite.
Actually most of my characters fall in that range, they have a degree of
professionalism, but are hardly amongst the elite. The same held true for
most of the characters in group I was in, it may have changed, but except
for some of the people who's characters had there for awhile and they were
professionals.

SilverFire
"I merely chewed in self-defense."

-Draco the Dragon
"Dragonheart"

=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:11:16 MEZ-1MESZ
Reply-To: sandman@****.uni-oldenburg.de
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: HAUPT ULRICH FB08 <sandman@****.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Organization: University Of Oldenburg Comp.Center
Subject: I'd like to know ...

Hello !

I have thought about some questions which I would like
to have answered. Maybe some of them are considerable
to the third edition SR3!

1) Watchers have a base time of 120 minutes to find
people, (IMO: astrally) known by the summoner. A
sorcerer travelling astrally has just the role playing
chance to find someone. And now for the question ...
Are watchers better at finding people than his master ?

2) How long does initiation take ?
I think it should take at least 1 day per grade if
no quests are wanted.

3) In my opinion the damage from falling is too harmless!
One Character jumped out of a window and missed the rope.
So he was falling 14 Meters (ca.42 ft) down on the street.
He had to resist 6T (7T-halve impact armor) and got only
medium damage. I think there should be at least some
broken bones if falling such distances! I suggest the power
should no be halve hight in Meters. Better take just the
hight itself!
What do you think ?

4) When does the bonding from a focus break ? A thief
stole two spell locks and a force 2 power focus. I
could not find a rule what exactly must happen to break
the bonding! Is it enough to seperate the focus (what
distance?) from the wizard or be there be something
magical?

5) If the bonding was not broken shouldn't it be very
simple for the sorcerer to track the astral trace back ?
How does a hermetic circle or ward disturb the astral
line ? Any ideas ?

6) And now for something completely different ;-)
Which modifiers conzern an attacker shooting out of a
driving car shooting someone running from it ?
(A Chrysler-Nissan Patrol-One driving at 25 mph through
a park hunting the _poor_ shaddow runners running away!)

7) I found in VRII that the damage codes have the following effect:
L - 1 box
M - 2 boxes
S - 3 boxes
T - 6 boxes

Is it a printing error or didn't I got the idea ? (I'm sure you
have disussed this earlier, haven't you ? )

thank you for your effords of answering me !

Sandman
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:38:52 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: I'd like to know ...
In-Reply-To: <500BEBC2BD8@****.uni-oldenburg.de>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 17:11 7/14/97 MEZ-1MESZ, you wrote:
>Hello !
>3) In my opinion the damage from falling is too harmless!

Alternate falling rules in one of the Plastic Warrior books (See Gurths
sig). Its in either Project3 or Paranoid Animals..
I just got access to a laser printer, weee!!! :)

>7) I found in VRII that the damage codes have the following effect:
>L - 1 box
>M - 2 boxes
>S - 3 boxes
>T - 6 boxes
>
>Is it a printing error or didn't I got the idea ? (I'm sure you
>have disussed this earlier, haven't you ? )

A typo, I'm pretty sure.. :)

-Adam
Leaving the magic questions for those who know.

-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:37:37 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Re: [OT] Happy Fun Ball!!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> >> | Since nobody else mentioned it..I'll do it..
> >> |
> >> | M
> >> | I
> >> | C
> >> | R
> >> | O
> >> |
> >> | S
> >> | P
> >> | O
> >> | I
> >> | L
> >> | E
> >> | R
> >> |
> >> | F
> >> | O
> >> | R
> >> |
> >> | M
> >> | i
> >> | B
> >> |
> >> |
> >> |
> >> |
> >> |
> First of all, you are crazy, Granite.

Well......Yea..So?

> And don't you remember? "Happy fun ball contains a liquid core which was
> discovered when it fell to earth (presumably from space)" :)

That's right..I had forgotten that...But as you now know that is just
a cover story..To protect the public sanity...

> BTW: "Move when it comes at you!"

This is good advice...
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:45:33 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: Whatever happend to the photos?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 02:27 AM 7/14/97 -0400, Steven A. Tinner wrote:
>The greenish skin tone comes natural to Bull, so that shouldn't be a
>problem ... ;-)

I know you used a smiley and all, but since I fig. you're joking about
Bull, I thought this needed mentioning: orks are green.

Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/

The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton

Gencon count down: 23 days
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 11:47:11 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Focusing Efforts
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Fri, 11 Jul 1997 02:19:16 -0400"
<199707110619.CAA26414@*********.mindspring.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

You wrote:
> Another gripe, stop comparing anything to the 2nd edition AD&D
> changeover. All you are listening to is the people that want to vocal
> about it so they can bitch, moan, and complain. I worked at a game store
> when it came out and for several years after. I just want to know how do
> you define disappointment?
No, I've long since forgotten about AD&D except that it was my introduction to
roleplaying. I just don't want to see a 3rd ed of SR just for the sake of
collecting material. If it doesn't have any major improvements, it won't
really increase my enjoyment of the game, I'll have to buy it for a few small
changes, when bigger improvements could be made. That's why I compared it to
2nd ed AD&D, which was more organized (being in two rulebooks) but
disappointing in that few rules were changed, mostly just small things.
I'd just rather have SR3.0 than SR2.2(bug-fixed), was what I was trying to say.

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 11:52:48 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Whatever happend to the photos?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Rasputin said:
>I know you used a smiley and all, but since I fig. you're joking about
>Bull, I thought this needed mentioning: orks are green.
>
>Kohl replys:
> NO, NOT THE MAJORITY OF THEM!!! Maybe some of those of caucasian birth
>has a slight greenish pigmentation to their skin tone, but orks express the
>various racial idiosyncrasies and skin color variations as their parent
>ethnic groups.
>
>Kohl, part Black, part Irish, ALL ORK! [Born in Liverpool, don't you know!]
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:57:50 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: Whatever happend to the photos?
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>Rasputin said:
>>I know you used a smiley and all, but since I fig. you're joking about
>>Bull, I thought this needed mentioning: orks are green.

Damn. I meant "orks aren't green". See what happens when you don't
proofread?

Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/

The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton

Gencon count down: 23 days
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 11:56:05 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Changing the System (Was [SR3] Magical Magic)
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:44:30 -0400"
<970712124429_-1527129422@*******.mail.aol.com>
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You wrote:
> Oh no, if you had a guy who wanted to use this option, you could do the
> following...

> Mana Spike
> Base Damage : L
> Base Drain : L
> LOS : No Modifier
> Damage Staging 1 : Drain Category +1
> Drain Staging 1 : Drain Category +1
> Damage Reduction (variation on a theme) Staging 3 : Drain Category +1

> End Drain : (f/2)D

> sure, it's a little spell, but the mage gets the good end and the recipient
> gets shafted to hell and back...

Okay, then:
4 successes to reduce the Drain to nothing from Deadly.
Staging one to increse the damage.
Staging three for the target to reduce the damage.

Obviously the Drain CAtegory +1 modifiers aren't enough.
Damage Staging 1 should prolly be +2 Drain category or +1 Drain and +X Drain
Target # to resist. This makes it harder to just shrug off that Deadly Drain.

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:01:10 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Commlink
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Sun, 13 Jul 1997 02:33:29 -0400"
<970713023329_-491307721@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
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You wrote:
> There is in the Cybertechnology book, the Cybercom, which is something that
> allows for direct neural control of the cyber radio. Never mind that the
> original radio was cyberware and thus a bit beyond standard hand's reach
> anyway.
Yes, SR has this habit of adding more stuff instead of simply explaining it a
little better in later rulebooks. Think of Firepower Ammo, The new grenades
from SSC, Reactive Triggers, Extended Clips... Cybertechnology did the same
thing, unfortunately. It's a bad habit the players as a whole should say
something about so that they won't do it again.

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:11:22 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Living material links

On Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:48:10 EDT John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM> writes:

>Ever read any of C.S. Friedman's books in the Dark Sun Trilogy? In
there,
>you could make a sacrifice (not necessarily a blood sacrifice, btw) to
>make magic more powerful, the extra power this granted you depended a
>great deal on the personal meaning the sacrificed item(s) held, for
>you or for the person involved. I'd say that a child would mean some
>seriously nasty magic if you used it that way <shudder>

And of course the last novel shows that it, the sacrifice, doesn't
always have to be LITERAL.

~Tim (.. that is one GOOD trilogy... "The Madness Season" gets a
pair-of-opposable-digits -vertical too.)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:24:45 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Area of Effect Spells and Astral Targeting
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Mon, 14 Jul 1997 01:00:41 -0400 (EDT)"
<19970714.005905.29391.0.lobo1@****.com>
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You wrote:
> Could you point out a passage where this is stated? As I recall, you're
> never required to see the target, just his/her/its aura, to synch with
> it.
Actually, it states that you cannot target someone by seeing a bit of their
aura around a corner, for instance.

And yes, I did just check 'Spell Targetting' in the BBB. It stated
> that a 'good rule of thumb' was that the magician should be able to see
> the target with his eyes or 'a natural extension of those eyes', which
> would appear to include binoculars (optical only, electronics don't count
> because it's got to be the 'original image' of the target), cybereyes
> (because the mage paid Essence for them) and (by my interpretation,
> anyway) astral perception.
I've been informed of a change in this in a later printing of the BBB which
does allow astral sight to target without the need for physical sight.

> My reasoning on that point, exactly.

> <<losthalo, who's never figured these rules were hard to understand...>>

> Are you kidding? The magic rules are probably the most ambiguous and
> indistinct set of rules in the entire game, hence all the discussion on
> them:)
No, I'm not kidding. Even being informed that assensing can be used to target
otherwise invisible opponents can make sense to me. What is so confusing? I
think people get confused with this system when they start bringing their own
assumptions to it, or draw conclusions out too far. Certainly a few points
(grounding, though once I read the sections and understood it, I don't have a
problem making rulings on this myself) confuse people but for the most part
it's clear.

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:29:49 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Loseke <mike@******.VERINET.COM>
Subject: Re: Commlink
In-Reply-To: <01IL85MBPVTS9I567I@******.acs.muohio.edu> from "Bruce H.
Nagel"
at Jul 14, 97 12:01:10 pm
Content-Type: text

Quoth Bruce H. Nagel:
>
> You wrote:
> > There is in the Cybertechnology book, the Cybercom, which is something that
> > allows for direct neural control of the cyber radio. Never mind that the
> > original radio was cyberware and thus a bit beyond standard hand's reach
> > anyway.
> Yes, SR has this habit of adding more stuff instead of simply explaining it a
> little better in later rulebooks. Think of Firepower Ammo, The new grenades
> from SSC, Reactive Triggers, Extended Clips... Cybertechnology did the same
> thing, unfortunately. It's a bad habit the players as a whole should say
> something about so that they won't do it again.

Just in case you didn't know, reactive triggers was an SR1 thing. SR2
gave all SA pistols reactive triggers, or at least the same attributes
that a reactive trigger gave the weapon -- the ability to fire 2 shots
in a round.

--
|
Mike Loseke | You never know how fluffy poodles are,
mike@*******.com | until you step in one.
|
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:30:04 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Astral Targeting
MIME-version: 1.0
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My take on spell targeting prior to hearing of the correction in the 3rd
printing was this: All spells need a 'bridge' from astral to the physical to
affect the target. In grounding, an active focus provides this
astral-to-physical bridge. Otherwise, something must provide it. In the case
of my previous understanding, wherein physical sight (not assensing) could
provide this, allowing the spell to travel to the target's aura and ground from
it into their physical form (doing damage or what-have-you). Something needed
to provide this bridge. Now, if they reversed themselves in the 3rd printing
and decided that assensing *could* target a spell for a target you could not
physically see, well... Now there is a gap. What forms the 'bridge' here?
Their astral-aura-to-body connection? No, because if they are a mundane, or a
magician lacking active foci, you cannot cast spells on them from the astral,
can you? An active focus on them would allow you to, because it is a constant
bridge. When astral (assensing or projecting) you could only cast at astrally
active targets (spirits, foci, barriers, et cetera).

This is why I thought the way I did, and would like an explanation if someone
has one handy, as to how a bridge for the spell is formed without physical
senses finding the target.

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:41:22 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Commlink
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:29:49 -0600"
<199707141629.KAA29643@******.verinet.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

You wrote:
> Just in case you didn't know, reactive triggers was an SR1 thing. SR2
> gave all SA pistols reactive triggers, or at least the same attributes
> that a reactive trigger gave the weapon -- the ability to fire 2 shots
> in a round.
Yes, and they all have Extended Clips and Firepower Ammo, too.

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:52:44 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Astral Targeting
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> From: Bruce H. Nagel <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
> Date: Monday, July 14, 1997 1:30 PM
>

> My take on spell targeting prior to hearing of the correction in the 3rd
> printing was this: All spells need a 'bridge' from astral to the
physical to
> affect the target. In grounding, an active focus provides this
> astral-to-physical bridge. Otherwise, something must provide it. In the
case
> of my previous understanding, wherein physical sight (not assensing)
could
> provide this, allowing the spell to travel to the target's aura and
ground from
> it into their physical form (doing damage or what-have-you). Something
needed
> to provide this bridge. Now, if they reversed themselves in the 3rd
printing
> and decided that assensing *could* target a spell for a target you could
not
> physically see, well... Now there is a gap. What forms the 'bridge'
here?
> Their astral-aura-to-body connection? No, because if they are a mundane,
or a
> magician lacking active foci, you cannot cast spells on them from the
astral,
> can you? An active focus on them would allow you to, because it is a
constant
> bridge. When astral (assensing or projecting) you could only cast at
astrally
> active targets (spirits, foci, barriers, et cetera).

> This is why I thought the way I did, and would like an explanation if
someone
> has one handy, as to how a bridge for the spell is formed without
physical
> senses finding the target.

Okay, here is the deal. Nothing's really changed. You need to have 2
things in order to target someone with a spell: the target needs to be
present in both the physical and the astral (keep in mind that having a
living aura is enough presence on the astral in this case); and you need to
meet the same qualifications, plus you need to synchronize the spell
between your aura and the target's. This is always the case, except for
Damaging Manipulations.

If, however, you are astrally projecting, you no longer have the physical
portion of your requirement fulfilled, and therefore cannot target someone
with a spell unless: 1.) they exist solely on the astral; or 2.) they
provide some bridge that is strong enough to carry the spell into the
physical via their aura (for example: an active focus or they are
dual-natured).

Damaging Manipulations cannot be cast while on the astral...you need to be
physical to cast them, and cannot ground them.

Hope that clears things up. :)

> losthalo

Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:07:06 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Pig-Mentation: Ork skin color (Was - Re: Whatever happend to the
photos?)
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> >>I know you used a smiley and all, but since I fig. you're joking about
> >>Bull, I thought this needed mentioning: orks are green.
>
> Damn. I meant "orks aren't green". See what happens when you don't
> proofread?

Actually, I allow a wide range of skin colors for metahumans.
I have had jet black elves, blue trolls, and all sorts of variations.
Yeah, the green Bull part was a joke, but skin color is IMO fair game,
besides, there have got to be all sorts of weird dye jobs for runners and
wannabees.
After all, in a world with Elf Posers, wouldn't there also be a market for
goofballs that want bright red skin?

Come to think of it, a lot of my SR world resembles Anime ...

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"Uh-oh! Chongo!"
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:05:38 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Alternate Etiquette rules
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Sun, 13 Jul 1997 01:47:14 -0600"
<3.0.2.32.19970713014714.006dfa40@****.lis.ab.ca>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

You wrote:
> Feel free to add or remove these as you see fit, however adding many more
> can affect game balance.
> These skills are raised in cost like any other general skill
> "Rating * 2 = Cost"

> If you are trying to raise an etiquette skill which you don't have exposure
> to at the current time, the cost is "Rating * Modifier * 1.5 = Cost"
Actually, this means that other skills should require the 'proper' environment
as well... to learn firearms you should have to train with someone, etc.
Shadowrun isn't this specific about advancement. Some groups worry about this
sort of thing, some don't, and it should stay that way. And if you have a
damned good trainer, you should get a lower multiplier, too, but that starts to
really kick game balance in the head... Watch the PCs trade their good skills
around and get powerful right quick.

> Basic Etiquette Skills
> ----------------
> Gang, Matrix, Corporate, Tribal, Street, Goverment, Tribal, Culture

> Etiquette (Gang): The character can function in a street or go-gang
> enviroment. He can name the leaders of the main gangs in the sprawl and
> knows where to find the names of the others. He knows which gang is coming
> his way when he see's purple jackets and black bikes coming his way.
> Concentrations: Per gang.
> Examples:
> Etiquette (Gang) (Red Spiders), Etiquette (Gang) Red Hot Nukes

> Etiquette (Street): You can live in the back alleys and undergrounds of
> the sprawls. You understand that the street is alive and growing, and you
> can adapt to it. You can track down someone who can get you a gun, and
> maybe find some kindered souls to help you out.
> etiquette (Street) is very close to etiquette (Gang), and etiquette
> (Criminal), so they can be somewhat intertwined.
> Concentrations: Per area or location. Its a more generic skill than the
> other etiquettequettes, so less likely to be concentrated in.
> Examples:
> Etiquette (Street) (The pit), Etiquette (Street) Puyallup.
If you're going to make this a general skill (expensive) then let
Gang, Street, and Criminal fall together into the same skill (originally seen
as Etiquette(Street). Why make it hard for people to pick up their basic
etiquette skills and still have enough points to do something?

> Etiquette (Criminal): You can find things on the black market, name some of
> the local crime bosses, and fit in with the criminal element.
> Concentrations: In criminal faction or activities.
> Etiquette (Criminal) (Yakuza), Etiquette (Criminal) (BTL Smuggling)

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 19:20:41 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <pr-MIke@************.Germany.EU.net>
From: Mike Hartmann <hartmann@***********.M.EUNET.DE>
Subject: Re: I'd like to know ...
In-Reply-To: <500BEBC2BD8@****.uni-oldenburg.de>
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Answering a message from HAUPT ULRICH FB08:

> 1) Watchers have a base time of 120 minutes to find
> people, (IMO: astrally) known by the summoner. A
> sorcerer travelling astrally has just the role playing
> chance to find someone. And now for the question ...
> Are watchers better at finding people than his master ?

Well, if you allow magicks to find ppl this way, you can severely
harm the game. See, if a watcher encounters something irregular (like
wards or whatever) he doesn't return to his master, because he wastes
his time trying to circumvent the obstacle. If you allow the magick
to search the same way, you'd give out lots of hints. If I as a GM
don't want a player to find a person magically, the watcher simply
doesn't return - for what reasons ever (he might have run out of
time, he might have met someone who disrupted him or whatever). All
that options would simply vanish....:-)

> 2) How long does initiation take ?
> I think it should take at least 1 day per grade if
> no quests are wanted.

Actually initiation takes alot more time, i.e. the time you consume
to collect the necessary karma...

> I think there should be at least some
> broken bones if falling such distances! I suggest the power
> should no be halve hight in Meters. Better take just the
> hight itself!
> What do you think ?

Junk...:-) that would mean someone with a body of 2 would always take
a serious wound from falling even one meter....

> 4) When does the bonding from a focus break ? A thief
> stole two spell locks and a force 2 power focus. I
> could not find a rule what exactly must happen to break
> the bonding! Is it enough to seperate the focus (what
> distance?) from the wizard or be there be something
> magical?

The bonding breaks as soon as another magician tries to bond the item
to himself. If you allow gradual bonding it is as soon as the other
magician pays the first karma.

> 5) If the bonding was not broken shouldn't it be very
> simple for the sorcerer to track the astral trace back ?
> How does a hermetic circle or ward disturb the astral
> line ? Any ideas ?

I'd allow a sorcery-skill roll vs 10-[Rating of focus]+[rating of any
wards/circles] to track back the item.

bye mike
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:36:01 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@*****.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Target: UCAS and Bug Stuff
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970714094822.00979ad0@********>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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On 14 Jul 97 at 9:48, Michael Broadwater wrote:

> At 04:39 AM 7/12/97 -0400, Bull wrote:
> >and plan to use some of United Brotherhood
>
> _Universal_ Brotherhood, Bull.
>

Ahhh, finally somebody corrected him. I didn't have the heart, and it
was grating on my nerves...
:)

--

=DREKHEAD========================================================
drekhead@***.net --- http://users.aol.com/drekhead/home.html ---
=================================================================
=================================================================
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot
stomping on a human face...forever. -George Orwell
=================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:34:13 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Faux Pas (Thomas)" <thomas@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Pig-Mentation: Ork skin color (Was - Re: Whatever happend to
the photos?)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:07 PM 7/14/97 -0400, Steven A. Tinner whispered:
>Actually, I allow a wide range of skin colors for metahumans.
>I have had jet black elves, blue trolls, and all sorts of variations.
>Yeah, the green Bull part was a joke, but skin color is IMO fair game,
>besides, there have got to be all sorts of weird dye jobs for runners and
>wannabees.
>After all, in a world with Elf Posers, wouldn't there also be a market for
>goofballs that want bright red skin?

Yep, we've got a human character that likes to dye her skin and hair.
Started off as crimson, went to caucasian, then to blue (a six foot tall
smurf...), then to a dark hispanic skin color. My NPC/PC ork (Napalm) has
a greenish tinge to him, but I envision all orks and trolls as greenish
despite the many descriptions of ebony elves, korean trolls, caucasian
dwarves, and other diverse ethnic groups prevalent in metahumanity.

-Thomas Deeny
Your Guide to Shadowrun -- http://shadowrun.miningco.com -- updated every
Wednesday!
Thomas's World is http://telltale.hart.org -- come visit!

"First I'm going to bother every one I meet, and then I'll go home and get
drunk."
-Tippy Turtle
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:45:48 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: GIVE US YOUR TECHNOLOGY AND WE'LL GIVE YOU ALL THE COW LIPS YOU
WANT <downsa@******.EDU>
Subject: Re: origins:Saturday night hive

bull wrote:
-Anyways, who else is making it to Origins? Just curios... We've been
-talking about Gen Con so much, we've neglected the other con...:]

i'm there dude. like, al-right. gotta go clubbing with some friends thursday
night, but friday and the weekend is fun-fun-fun.

Aaron
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 11:43:49 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Skye Comstock <bilbo@****.NWLINK.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Dragonflight
In-Reply-To: <199707140622.XAA31693@*****.u.washington.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> So, anybody joining me at Dragonflight?

I might go... if I knew anything about it. :]

When is it?

Where is it?

How much does it cost to get in? (I have very little cash...)

I'm probably going to go alone if I do go, since my SR group is
practically non-existant and all my other friends don't like
RPG's... Blah.

-Skye
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:32:30 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: Pig-Mentation: Ork skin color
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:34 PM 7/14/97 -0500, Faux Pas (Thomas) wrote:

>Yep, we've got a human character that likes to dye her skin and hair.
>Started off as crimson, went to caucasian, then to blue (a six foot tall
>smurf...), then to a dark hispanic skin color. My NPC/PC ork (Napalm) has
>a greenish tinge to him, but I envision all orks and trolls as greenish
>despite the many descriptions of ebony elves, korean trolls, caucasian
>dwarves, and other diverse ethnic groups prevalent in metahumanity.

I totally agree that you can dye your skin color, but a natural green tint?
Come on, nowhere is it even suggested that Trolls/Orcs/etc have any
coloration like that. If you play ad&d, maybe that's how they look, but
then, those ones aren't born of human parents, are they?

Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/

The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton

Gencon count down: 23 days
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:06:53 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Spaceman <spaced@*.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject: Re: [OT] Dragonflight
In-Reply-To: <v03007800aff031652c4d@[206.129.19.45]>

>>>>> Skye Comstock didst say unto the aether thusly:

# When is it?
August 22-24

# Where is it?
Seattle University

# How much does it cost to get in? (I have very little cash...)
$25 for a three-day convention pass until sometime in august, I think.
<$40 at the door, but I'm not sure of an exact price

# I'm probably going to go alone if I do go, since my SR group is
# practically non-existant and all my other friends don't like
# RPG's... Blah.
Damn them anyway :]
They've got a very minimalist web page at
http://www.eskimo.com/~graham/dragonflight.html
You can also get in contact through
snail mail
Dragonflight
PO Box 417
Seattle, WA 98111-0417
voice mail
(206)781-0047
(NB: if Metro Seattle Gamers is meeting,
someone will pick up the phone.)
Hope to see you there......

The Spaceman |Send lawyers, guns, and money,
spaced@*.washington.edu |The shit has hit the fan.
Check out the Bill Page! | - Warren Zevon
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~spaced/bill.html
New maintainer of the Shadowrun Player Directory:
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~spaced/srdir/
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:42:54 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Hacking
In-Reply-To: <199707131617.QAA59680@****.ibm.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

#> I would disagree with this one. I thought that the 'Paperless'
#> office was supposed to have already happened, but I don't see it..
#> My 'office', as it is, is piled high with paper. Print outs,
#> magazines, books, everything. I realize the matrix is supposed to
#> be integrated much more than todays computer networks, but I can
#> still see stacks of paper and books on peoples desks.
#
#Absolutely. Management would not be able to function without their
#pounds and pounds of hardcopy.
Sure, I use print outs all the time, but I also like to read online stuff,
it's easier to search for words than a hard bound RPG rule book :), I
imagine my kids would prefer to read online more than I, and their kids
will be the managers in the 2050s
;)

--
/-justin@****.mcp.com----------------------jbell@****.mcp.com--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:45:10 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Hacking
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 07:03 AM 7/12/97 -0700, you wrote:
#> >To hack into a system, you are essentially writing counter programs
#> >and altering present information inside the mark system.
#
#Or, use existing programs on the inside to access/edit data, or just
#browse without altering. ("Real" hackers, whoever they are, get upset
#when you say hackers alter stuff, since that's cracking, not hacking.)
or knowing how to exploit existing services, for the real geeks on the
list, uch as sendmail, phf cgi scripts, etc.

#> >For all the time needed and required to obtain knowledge of a mark
#> >system, just to infiltrate it, isn't there an easier way of obtaining
#> >the goods you are trying to 'borrow'?
#
#It's not like people just sit around eighteen hours a day doing 'normal'
#stuff (eating, sleeping, jogging the dog) and then suddenly turn into
#Matrix berserkers. You have to live and breathe this stuff. I see most
#of a decker's time being taken up browsing through sleazy BBSes,
#attending EFF meetings (g), that sort of thing. It's why there's a
#Matrix Etiquette, y'know - completely different from Street Etiquette.
I spend very little time "hacking" but I know a few tricks to gain
SuperUser ccess on a lot of *NIX machines.

#> >And of high tech theft? With the knowledge gain through countless
#> >hours of self taught computer programming, wouldn't it be easier just
#> >to go get a job at Fujitsu and steal the info from the inside?
#
#Isn't it easier to get a job at Fujitsu and retire from the biz? :)
one problem here, you also have a reputation to keep good.
If you did get the job @ Fujitsu and then stole info from them, odds are
hey're going to find out, unless you hack the system, using the knowledge
gained hacking the system.

anyone else see the catch-22 here?

--
/-justin@****.mcp.com----------------------jbell@****.mcp.com--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:44:46 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Target: UCAS and Bug Stuff
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 09:48 AM 7/14/97 -0500, Michael Broadwater wrote these timeless words:
>At 04:39 AM 7/12/97 -0400, Bull wrote:
^^^^^^^^
>>and plan to use some of United Brotherhood
>
>_Universal_ Brotherhood, Bull.
>
yeah yeah yeah...

this is why I REALLY shouldn't post stuff at 4:30 AM... :]:];]

Brain goes to sleep long before that...:]:]:]

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 22:07:15 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: (Skill+Att)/2
In-Reply-To: <199707141429.IAA02734@******>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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David Buehrer said on 8:29/14 Jul 97...

> | Now I'm even thinking on the same wavelength as David. I must be getting
> | senile... :)
>
> Nope. If you're on the same wavelength as Spike, you're getting senile.

But out of you and Spike, you're the older one... ;)

> Well, I'd like to see a system that doesn't necessarily allow a character
> to default to every skill. When I first started playing we misinterpreted
> the rules and subtracted 2 dice per dot. A character with low attributes
> couldn't default to everything. However, Fubar the Troll didn't need to
> take any combat skills because his physical attributes were so high (after
> being modified by cyber- and bodyware).

I hold more or less the opposite point of view... IMHO it _should_ be
possible for everyone to do everything, and the skill web is a very
good attempt at allowing that without adding attributes to skills like so
many other systems do. An extra advantage is that attempting certain
skills can be much more difficult if you have to default from somewhere
else, and the relationships between skills can be brought into the
picture.

Assuming SR had a straight "attribute adds to skill" system, like for
example the World of Darkness rules use; someone using Quickness +
Firearms would be able to roll 5+4 dice, but if that same person doesn't
have Gunnery then he/she'd be limited to only the basic 5 dice, even
though the operation of a heavy machinegun is very similar to that of a
light machinegun.
With the skill web, the Firearms skill can be used, but the task is made
a bit more difficult to deal with the small differences in light and heavy
machineguns. However, trying to smash someone's face in by using Firearms
skill is possible (you know which points of the body are more vulnerable
than others), but a LOT more difficult than operating an HMG with Firearms
skill.

> If you take FoF's recoil table (or a version of it) and modify it to
> equal the number of default dice per attribute and subtract one die
> per dot passed through on the skill web, I *think* it would work.
> And yes, a low attribute would mean that a character wouldn't be able
> to default with that attribute, which IMHO is realistic.

This system suffers less from what I said above, since it's essentially a
"bonus dice" system. To make this work, though, you shouldn't remove dice
for using a skill the character has. For example Quickness + Firearms
again. When the character defaults to Firearms for using, say, Gunnery, I
think I still wouldn't subtract dice; just add the standard +2 TN
modifier per dot passed sounds much better.

Alternatively, allowing a player to pick an attribute (any attribute) and
tracing the path to the skill being used, and then subtracting one
attribute die per dot passed may work...

Example 1: A characer using Firearms chooses Quickness as the
attribute (what else?). His Quickness is 3 and his Firearms skill is 4.
The Quickness is reduced by 2 because two dots are passed, and the
character gets to roll 5 dice.

Example 2: Another character chooses Intelligence for Biotech. There are
4 dots between Intelligence and Biotech, so she'd lose 4 dice; if her
Intelligence is 4 or less, she gets no bonus dice at all.

However, this doesn't allow characters to use skills they totally don't
have. In such a case, defaulting to an attribute or other skill per the
normal rules should be allowed, adding +2 to the TN per dot passed, but
not reducing the bonus dice -- the bonus dice are traced to the skill
being defaulted to.

Example 1A: The character uses Gunnery skill, and again chooses Quickness.
He still gets 5 dice to roll (3 Quickness dice, -2 for the two dots, +4
Firearms skill), but adds a +2 TN modifier because the're one dot between
Firearms and Gunnery. If he'd defaulted to Quickness, he'd have only 3
dice and a +4 modifier.

Thoughts anyone?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 22:07:15 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: I'd like to know ...
In-Reply-To: <500BEBC2BD8@****.uni-oldenburg.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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HAUPT ULRICH FB08 said on 17:11/14 Jul 97...

> 1) Watchers have a base time of 120 minutes to find people, (IMO:
> astrally) known by the summoner. A sorcerer travelling astrally has just
> the role playing chance to find someone. And now for the question ... Are
> watchers better at finding people than his master ?

For the chance of running into someone while you're astrally projecting,
you need to consider how big the chance is that you run into that person
by chance. Actively searching of course improves the chance, but it's
mostly a matter of being methodical in going through rooms and
streets until you find the person you're looking for. That takes time.

Watchers, the way I see them, are somehow able to do a more direct search,
sort of like a "Find the random number between 1 and 100" type methodical
approach. How they do it, I don't know ("It's magic!" :) but I feel they
should be better able to find someone than a magician, especially if the
target is far away.

> 2) How long does initiation take ?
> I think it should take at least 1 day per grade if
> no quests are wanted.

IMHO it depends entirely on the magician's _ideas_ of how long it should
take. I feel it's possible to walk down the street and suddenly be
initiated spontaneously (a rare occurance, granted), but also to spend
several weeks doing what you think you should do to gain a grade.

> 3) In my opinion the damage from falling is too harmless!
> One Character jumped out of a window and missed the rope.
> So he was falling 14 Meters (ca.42 ft) down on the street.
> He had to resist 6T (7T-halve impact armor)

Using the German translation, are we? :) In the English books it's called
Deadly, or D, damage, not T (for Totlich, for those who don't speak
German (and yes, I believe I missed an Umlaut, but that's extended ASCII
and with an e it just looks silly :))

> and got only medium damage. I think there should be at least some broken
> bones if falling such distances! I suggest the power should no be halve
> hight in Meters. Better take just the hight itself!
> What do you think ?

The falling damage from small heights is ridiculous, but from larger
heights it's pretty good, IMHO. You have to relate those rules to normal
humans with a Body of 3. Technically, falling to the ground you're
standing on would cause 2D damage, which would result in a Serious wound
for a typical human, which is why I made up some house rules that changed
that (see Project 3 that can be downloaded from my page). From greater
heights, like the 14 m you mentioned, a normal human would most likely end
up with a Deadly wound, which sounds good enough to me.

> 4) When does the bonding from a focus break ? A thief
> stole two spell locks and a force 2 power focus. I
> could not find a rule what exactly must happen to break
> the bonding! Is it enough to seperate the focus (what
> distance?) from the wizard or be there be something
> magical?

That only applies to spell locks -- if they're removed from whatever
they're attached to by someone else than the magician who bonded the
lock, the link to the aforementioned magician is broken. Other foci can be
removed without the bond being broken, AFAIK.

> 5) If the bonding was not broken shouldn't it be very
> simple for the sorcerer to track the astral trace back ?

It is very easy to track a focus back to its owner through astral space.

> How does a hermetic circle or ward disturb the astral
> line ? Any ideas ?

The line would go through the astral barrier (circle, ward, whatever) and
anyone following the link will have to defeat or get around the barrier
somehow before the link can be followed further.

> 6) And now for something completely different ;-)
> Which modifiers conzern an attacker shooting out of a
> driving car shooting someone running from it ?
> (A Chrysler-Nissan Patrol-One driving at 25 mph through
> a park hunting the _poor_ shaddow runners running away!)

Look at the Moving Target Table on page 108 of SRII, that has the
modifiers you're looking for.

> 7) I found in VRII that the damage codes have the following effect:
> L - 1 box
> M - 2 boxes
> S - 3 boxes
> T - 6 boxes
>
> Is it a printing error or didn't I got the idea ? (I'm sure you
> have disussed this earlier, haven't you ? )

Although no official errata exists for VR 2.0, when the book was first
published this list pretty much reached the conclusion that those are
writing/printing errors.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:24:23 -0700
Reply-To: caric@********.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: Hello
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Adam J wrote:
> Steve, I told you not to give out my damned number on the list!
>
> :)
>
> (Its not really my number, just a joke:)
>
> Adam-who-hopes-caric-doesn't-give-it-out

Bwahahahahahaha!!!!!

<deep scary voice ala hollywood bad guy>
You fool!!! You thought that I wanted the number for idle chit chat and
keeping in touch with new friends...muahahahahaha!!1

Fro...i'm your father Fro.

</deeps scary voice ala hollywood bad guy>

-Caric

"That'll be $3.57 at the next window...thank you drive through."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:51:19 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: (Skill+Att)/2
In-Reply-To: <199707142006.OAA21656@******> from "Gurth" at Jul 14,
97 10:07:15 pm
Content-Type: text

Gurth wrote:
|
| David Buehrer said on 8:29/14 Jul 97...
|
| > | Now I'm even thinking on the same wavelength as David. I must be getting
| > | senile... :)
| >
| > Nope. If you're on the same wavelength as Spike, you're getting senile.
|
| But out of you and Spike, you're the older one... ;)

Oh yeah, I forgot :)

[snip]

| I hold more or less the opposite point of view... IMHO it _should_ be
| possible for everyone to do everything, and the skill web is a very
| good attempt at allowing that without adding attributes to skills like so
| many other systems do. An extra advantage is that attempting certain
| skills can be much more difficult if you have to default from somewhere
| else, and the relationships between skills can be brought into the
| picture.

Gah! Would you believe I completely forgot about defaulting to a skill
from a related skill? (God(s), maybe I *am* getting senile.)

| Alternatively, allowing a player to pick an attribute (any attribute) and
| tracing the path to the skill being used, and then subtracting one
| attribute die per dot passed may work...
|
| Example 1: A characer using Firearms chooses Quickness as the
| attribute (what else?). His Quickness is 3 and his Firearms skill is 4.
| The Quickness is reduced by 2 because two dots are passed, and the
| character gets to roll 5 dice.
|
| Example 2: Another character chooses Intelligence for Biotech. There are
| 4 dots between Intelligence and Biotech, so she'd lose 4 dice; if her
| Intelligence is 4 or less, she gets no bonus dice at all.

Problem: a cybered elf with Quickness 9 and Firearms 5 rolls 12 dice.

Also, Strength is already factored into unarmed combat as the power of the
attack. Adding it in again would not be a good thing, IMHO.

| Thoughts anyone?

Yeah, <sigh> I don't think the skill web can be changed. About the only
thing I would recommend would be to add more dots and change the TN modifer
to +1 per dot.

Or maybe multiple sizes of dots in different shapes and colors with
different modifiers applied to each one, and a special wild dot where
you role 1d6 to randomly determine the modifier! <sound of a
straight jacket being applied to two big guys in white coats>

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:45:49 -0700
Reply-To: caric@********.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,or Bring out
yourSpells,Bringout your spells!!!]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Bruce H. Nagel wrote:
> > So are control thoughts, emotions, and pretty much any other mind control
> > spell. I would certainly rather have an orgasm then have someone traipsing
> > through my mind ala Mind Probe.
> Did you hear me compare it to those others? No. I'm talking about the use of
> that spell. Sure Control Thoughts, et al. are not exactly ethical (neither is
> putting lead through people at sonic velocities). I just think that
> deliberately humiliating someone in a way that many people feel is worse than
> physical violence, shouldn't be a joke. Talking about how 'would you rather
> get hurt or have an orgasm?' assumes that having an orgasm is something
> everyone would prefer... you're projecting your preferences.

You did say that the spell was in your opinion akin to "controlling
someones most intimate thoughts and desires" If you do not consider
control thoughts and control emotions to do these exact same things then
your choice of words was poor, you did compare it to those spells by
what you said. I certainly never said that casting orgasm on someone
was ethical, and I can see where it might bother someone, but you seem
to think that humiliation in this way is drastically different then
humiliation in another way, and that people would rather be beaten up or
shot then have an orgasm in public. If me thinking that a vast
majority of people would not share your feelings on that is "projecting
my preferences" then you are absolutely correct that I am.

> > | > orgasm and get tired or burn to death as your head explodes?
> > |
> > | That really isn't the point. 'Would you rather be raped or murdered?'
> > isn't a
> > | fair choice, neither is something you should do to someone, eh? Some
> > people
> > | view sex pretty seriously, and this would be an extreme violation, doing
> > it to
> > | someone against their will (as opposed to voluntarily, which is an
> > original and
> > | interesting idea :) is the equivalent of taking control of their most
> > personal
> > | thoughts and desires. Not nice.
>
> > Actuall "would you rather be raped or mudered?" Has been answered by
> > several people I know with the later quite seriously. It's not making
> > anyone have sex with someone else as a controlling manipulation would, and
> > it in know way takes control of any thoughts or desires...I can't see it
> > being all that different from making someone wet their pants. It's a
> > bodily function and one that happens to feel good.
> Umm... orgasm is primarily a mental activity, contrary to popular belief. It
> is not a physiological response, despite perceptions to the contrary.
The act of ejaculation is a physiological response 100%...the stimulus
and trigger are mental you are correct, what the spell triggers the
physiological event, it does not in any way take control of the persons
mind and force them to reveal fantasies or things of that nature. The
spell triggers the pleasure center in the brain, and forces the body to
release the fluids...nothing more.

And just
> because no physical penetration occurs doesn't make it not rape, in this
> instance...

I still say that the comparison is unfair, you are comparing a
physically violent and in no way pleasurable event where someone is
physically restrained and forced to give in to another. The spell does
none of these things. The spell triggers a pleasurable feeling and a
sexual discharge, I am not going to say that you are wrong to compare
the two because I need to see some actual comparisons before I could say
that. How are they alike? I am assuming that you are somparing the
psycological effects on the victim afterwards. If this is the case then
say so. I still wouldn't agree that they would be the same, except in
extreme cases, but I would like some clarification.

> The idea of being forced ot experience and orgasm by a copmplete stranger
> doesn't bother you? You can't see why it would really freak someone out?

I never said that it wouldn't bother me, I am sure that I would be
sufficiently embarrassed, but I wouldn't feel like I had been violated
in a deeply physical and emotional way. I freely admit that some people
would take it more seriously then others, but as I said before it's
hardly the wors thing that you could do to someone.

~Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:47:09 -0700
Reply-To: caric@********.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,or Bring out
yourSpells,Bringout your spells!!!]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Bruce H. Nagel wrote:

Oops sorry guys I meant to send the response through privat e-mail to
Bruce, my apologies hopefully I didn't offend anyone, and if I did I do
apologize.

Caric-the-pissed-at-my-work-compy-shaman
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:52:04 -0700
Reply-To: caric@********.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,or Bring out your Spells,Bring
out your spells
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Bruce H. Nagel wrote:

> > OOOHHH Big fight topic here at the home game. Responsible Magicians....that
> > sounds like a flame war or worse in the making...

I don't think that we have to worry about that.

> I'm just talking about the fact that people are treating lightly something that
> to some would really mess them up. A lot of people are really sensitive about
> sex, though many don't realize this. They think that everyone would rather be
> having sex, because they would, and that anyone would like an orgasm 'free of
> charge', and that it's just funny...

I don't think that is the case at all, we all know that some people are
more sensitive to that particular topic then others, but know one ever
said that everyone would like and it should be the best spell ever.

If you held someone down and stimulated
> them (without permission) until they had an orgasm, would it be wrong? Really
> wrong?

Yes, but it would also be impossible in most cases. You were the one to
bring up the mental aspect of an orgasm...you can't force someone to be
sexually aroused...you could tie them down and manipulate all you
wanted, but unless they were in some odd way enjoying it they would not
have an orgasm.

This is the same thing, you just don't have to touch them because magic
> will let you do it... Someone did that to me, they'd better watch their back.

Will do :)

Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:56:12 -0700
Reply-To: caric@********.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: [SR3] Fetish & Exclusive Spells (suggestions)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> In a message dated 97-07-12 20:18:02 EDT, jade@***.net (Jason & Deanna
> Rodhouse) writes:
>
<The Duke>
Well Howdy Pilgrim
</The Duke>
...you have no idea what you have just gotten yourself into. :)

> > Whew! This monkey suit is HOT! Thanks for listening.

> An enchanter reaches out and hands the Monkey a banana..."Hey, you're just
> some guy in musty fur !!! " (snags his hand back before the rabid nature
> comes out... ;)

Caric calmly walks into the room, grabs the musty monkey and proceeds
outside. He then hangs the monkey on the closeline next to his cat and
proceeds to beat some of the dust out of it whilst saying "Ni" to
travelers who happen by.

~Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:14:31 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Black Death <ddmaster@**.NET>
Subject: Net Books Locations
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Where are the net books located at??
And is there a list of them??
--
Heaven or Hell it does not matter for I am the soul taker and you are
next on my list.
Black Death
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:00:44 -0700
Reply-To: caric@********.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: Hacking
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Adam J wrote:
> >In SR, print is nearly dead. Computers do too much to perform many kinds of
> >theft without knowledge of them. You can't steal cash, only valuables, etc.
> >Stealing important info usually means interacting with computers to some
> >extent.
>
> I would disagree with this one. I thought that the 'Paperless' office was
> supposed to have already happened, but I don't see it.. My 'office', as it
> is, is piled high with paper. Print outs, magazines, books, everything. I
> realize the matrix is supposed to be integrated much more than todays
> computer networks, but I can still see stacks of paper and books on peoples
> desks.

I have to agree with Adam on this one, I for one would always have paper
around, not because I have to, but because I like it. I like the feel
of a good book, or the ability to just lounge around and read on the
couch. Sure all of these things would be achieved with hand held
systems, but it's just not the same.

~Caric sans .sig
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 22:14:41 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Net Books Locations
In-Reply-To: <33CA96B7.8FA672FE@**.net> from "Black Death" at Jul 14,
97 04:14:31 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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|
|Where are the net books located at??
|And is there a list of them??

If you wait a while, and read peoples .sigs, most of the URLs are in
there....

Pay particular attention to Gurths sig....

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:06:11 -0700
Reply-To: caric@********.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Fluffy? (Was: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Spike wrote:

> |>Actually, wasn't there an Ork bodyguard in a book that said something like
> |>"How Quaint...he said Fuck..."
> |
> |Yeah... I seem to remember that. The idea that 'Fuck' just kind of
> |whithered away sometime during the past 50 years is a little silly,
> |it's not like the Crash of '29 was *that* bad. :)
>
> The point is, 20 years ago, words like SOD and BUGGER were unacceptable.
> Who's to say that 'Fuck' won't have lost all power to offend by then?
> (And what's the use of a good swear word if it doesn't have some power
> behind it?)

Ya know that's a very good point Spike (Boggle ;-) Anyway, it's true I
mean look at the word "bitch" it has been slang for awhile, but it
really isn't a big deal anymore, there are songs about it and it's said
all the time on national television here in america. Once it makes it
to TV it's just not offensive anymore durnit!!!

Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:13:46 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Hacking
In-Reply-To: <33CA937C.1F15@********.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 02:00 PM 7/14/97 -0700, you wrote:

#I have to agree with Adam on this one, I for one would always have paper
#around, not because I have to, but because I like it. I like the feel
#of a good book, or the ability to just lounge around and read on the
#couch. Sure all of these things would be achieved with hand held
#systems, but it's just not the same.
#
what about the star trek-like handheld mini "tablets" they use for textual
purposes?
I could consider those to be much more useful than a book, especially if
they're waterproof.

--
/-justin@****.mcp.com----------------------jbell@****.mcp.com--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:08:31 -0700
Reply-To: caric@********.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: Storytelling
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Gurth wrote:

> > | I even did this for a fight between a PC and a mantis spirit. We'd
> > | stopped the last session just before the fight, and went on there. In the
> > | meantime I'd decided the PC would get killed if we handled this as a
> > | straight BTB fight, so we turned to a more cinematic style; no initiative
> > | rolls, mostly descriptions of actions and what was going on, plus the
> > | occasional attack test for either side. Hey, I wanted the PC to survive
> > | (guess that doesn't make me much of an evil GM, does it? :)
> >
> > I guess that depends on if you left him alive so that you could rip his arm
> > of with an elevator later or not.
>
> I wanted him alive else there'd be nobody to take Anne Penchyk out of the
> CZ (and don't go into more detail about this without spoiler spaces,
> okay?).

Ahhhh I see, message reieved good buddy. Plus you took his leg so you
ARE an evil GM. Sorry Gurth I didn't want it to be true but i'm afraid
that it is.

Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:10:05 -0700
Reply-To: caric@********.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: SR I question
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Gurth wrote:

> > PS: Greetings to all, I hear that 3rd Ed is in the works and suggestions are
> > requested? True? Any special place to send them, and any particular
> > requirements for submissions and suggestions?
>
> Steve Kenson asked for ideas on the list, which naturally got totally out
> of hand...

<shocked indignation>

Us? Totally out of hand?!?!?!

I am shocked and dismayed that you would accuse of that Gurth.

</shocked indignation>

BFG

Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 22:21:36 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Hacking
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970714161346.007a2eb0@***.iquest.net> from
"Jaymz" at
Jul 14, 97 04:13:46 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

|what about the star trek-like handheld mini "tablets" they use for textual
|purposes?
|I could consider those to be much more useful than a book, especially if
|they're waterproof.

Usefull, maybe. But even Picard likes to pick up a real book to flick
through once in a while...

(I'll use the episode "Cause and Effect" as an example...)

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:11:13 -0700
Reply-To: caric@********.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: Storytelling
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Gurth wrote:
>
> Gabriel said on 0:01/13 Jul 97...
>
> > "I wish the Mantis spirit killed me."
>
> EGMLOL! Now I just _have_ to make this come true... :)

The prosecution rests your honor.

Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:14:34 -0700
Reply-To: caric@********.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: SR I question
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Damion Milliken wrote:
>
> Gurth writes:
>
> > Finally read up on that backlog, eh? :)
>
> Unfortunately, no - I decided that lurking was boring (I was reading all
> these cool threads that I wanted to post comments about, but couldn't since
> they were from October last year... :-)).
>
> > Steve Kenson asked for ideas on the list, which naturally got totally out
> > of hand...
>
> I hope he's got a lot of time to collate all of the suggestions he'll get.
> I've got some 30 points to bring up... Do people think it would be better
> to:
>
> a) Send such suggestions directly to Steve?
> b) Post suggestions collated in one big message so that those who couldn't
> care less can nuke them easily?
> c) Post suggestions individually so that they can be discussed by the list?

I for one would like to get some discussion going on them, I think that
Steve asked us for that very reason, he knew that we would tear it all
appart and rebuild fourteen different ways. We may not all agree on
anything, but Steve can get a rough idea how a majority feels as well as
feedback and ideas from people who at least marginally know what the
hell they are talking about. (In regards to SR at least :)

Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:22:38 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Fluffy?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

>...... Anyway, it's true I
> mean look at the word "bitch" it has been slang for awhile, but it
> really isn't a big deal anymore,.......... Once it makes it
> to TV it's just not offensive anymore durnit!!!

If ya think so..try and say it to my wife..But I advise you to
duck..quickly..And then running would probably also be good advice..
:)
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:20:39 -0700
Reply-To: caric@********.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: Living material links
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Steven A. Tinner wrote:

> At the risk of being called an evil GM ... do you think it would be
> feasible to use a runner's kid as a material link for ritual sorcery?

(Sorry Bull) I would have to say absolutely, unless the person is not
emotionally attached to the child at all. Anything that has emotional
significance for the target should work. In fact I would say kids would
work really really well.

> Going on the DNA theory, the child has at least PART of the father's DNA
> right? So there should be a flicker of a weak link there, and then of
> course there's the fact that the father/son emotional bond could act as a
> link.

Possibly, but unnecessary...see above.

> Anyone have any problem with there being a similarity (Is that the term?)
> link/connection between father and son?
>
> Any suggestions for combining this with blood magic for a truly hideous
> ritual?

Game mechanics wise? No. Player wise? Yeah, I kinda liked Bull. .]

Caric-the-eye-pokin'-shaman
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:22:42 -0700
Reply-To: caric@********.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,or Bring out
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Spike wrote:
>
> |Don't take this the wrong way Halo, but I think I finally figured out your
> |"nickname" of "losthalo". Fallen Angel indeed. ;]
>
> Duhhhhhhhhhhhhh...........
> I've been reading it as los(th)alo....
> Duh....

<handing Spike a carp> You do it, you need to handle this one yourself.
<shaking head sadly>

Caric :)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:40:18 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Orgasm Spell - Should they, or shouldn't they [Was Mysticism...]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I've been following this thread almost from it's inception, and
finally decided to throw my two p into the arena.
I think it comes down very much to a matter of personal mores what
people are willing to endure when it comes to mental manipulation
spells. A number of people have expressed that they feel the use of a
spell like Orgasm constitutes rape, and I can completely understand
their position.
Myself, I'd much rather have to deal with something like induced
orgasm, as opposed to having my mind controlled against my will, or even
worse, having it read or even deep probed by some unscrupulous mage.
After the Orgasm spell, I might feel a little embarassed [well, a
LOT embarassed, especially if it happened in front of a bunch MANLY
runners!], but I'd blow it off (or maybe slug the mage in the face,
reasserting my manhood! What if it's a woman? I'd kiss her first, THEN
slug her in the face!).
Someone using a Control Actions type spell on me, would definitely
get my goat, as I don't like being forced to do ANYTHING against my will
[I guess that's why my characters are usually so willfull!]. And they'd
better pray they were FAR away when I got out from under it, cause I'm
going to wail on them one minute for every minute they had me under. I'd
definitely be pissed.
If someone mentally probed my mind, I'll tell you right now, unless
they had a DAMN good reason for it, they'd be suffering from a 10mm
migraine in about 1 second. I, personally, am a VERY private person, and
DO NOT like the idea of someone traipsing about in my thoughts unbidden.
What I reveal to others is what I CHOOSE to reveal. This would be a
violation to me in the truest sense of the word, and I'd definitely
qualify it as rape.
In my game world, Mental Probing without the recipient's prior
consent IS classified as Rape, and while dificult to authenticate, is
prosecuted as such [a note to all you mentalist mages out there :-].
But, like I said, I can understand those who aren't as offended by
mental picking about, as they are by artifically induced emotions. It's
all depends on your point of view.

Kohl, who says,' first mage that reads MY mind, will get a sneak preview
of what's in store for him, when I catch him!' :-}.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:42:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Spell types (was Re: Centering vs Penalties)

In a message dated 97-07-13 16:00:30 EDT, u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK (Spike)
writes:

>
> |Then I really hope you also allow for those people caught in the area
> effect
> |of such spells to have access to their armor for resisting the damage.
>
> Why? If the effect spreads out in astral space and then grounds through
all
> the auras visible in the area???
>
Okay, I know I snipped what was after this, but it was another example of
material taken out of context.

A Manaball, or any Area of Effect Combat Magic, does NOT ground into all the
auras that are within the potential area of effect. It only grounds into a
single target, then blossoms inversely (outward in) into manifestation
afterwards. Thus, if you hit the guy with a Body of 4 with a Powerball, gain
6 successes, and there are three targets with higher body in that area, they
they are resisting the spell based upon the 6 successes, and not upon their
own attributes.

At least that is how it's been interpreted by the people here...(shrug).

-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:45:59 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Spell types (2 of 2) (was Re: Centering vs Penalties)

In a message dated 97-07-13 16:00:30 EDT, u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK (Spike)
writes:

>
> "Ground" is a very vague concept.
> If the FLOOR is made of artificial material, the T# for it is in the
double
> figures. If it's something like Tarmacaddam, the t# would still be high,
as
> would concrete.
>
> Only if the ground is made of rock or earth with the t# be low....
> --
>
Okay, this is the part 2 to my previous posting. T# for man-made stuff is
not necessarily high. Standard Concrete, even the Ferro-concrete, is not
higher than a 6, which is far better than the troll or the car (high body
metahuman or 8 for a standard vehicle). Reason being is simple. Concrete is
a mixture, not a polymer. mixtures do NOT require chemical change while a
polymer (or similar material) requires chemical change.

-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:47:02 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Wrong?/Not Wrong? (was Bring out your...)

In a message dated 97-07-13 16:05:58 EDT, u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK (Spike)
writes:

>
> Will you stop saying "WRONG!!!" as if you're jumping up and down with
glee!
> And again, no, I'm not wrong.
> The Ghost dance drew the horrors because of the sheer magnitude of it all.
> EVIL BLOOD magic can draw horrors in much smaller doses.....
> --
>
Sorry, It's a goofy habit I know. And it's not with glee, it's a variation
on the "buzzer" and "blip" stuff that I've seen earlier on the list.

And besides ... it's not with glee. It's with anxiety...
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:48:58 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Area of Effect Spells and Astral Targeting

In a message dated 97-07-13 16:30:11 EDT, u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK (Spike)
writes:

>
> That's a nice way of putting it....
>
> Poetic, aren't we???
> :)
> --
>
Hey, somebody's gotta try.. 9~;]
-Keith
(the curly hat of imagination smiley)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:50:02 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Demon Magnets (new topic for the day)

With the questioning of the horror attractions due to Blood Magic and the
like, and the various opinions bouncing around like normal, could anyone
really give a good summary (with light explanations) list of what types of
phenomenon in general attract "the Horrors."

Good Blood Magic, Evil Blood Magic, it's all "en muerto magicke de sanguine"
(gods I hope I got that right).

-keith
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:51:39 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,or Bring out
yourSpells,Bringout your spells!

In a message dated 97-07-13 19:40:28 EDT, NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU
(Bruce H. Nagel) writes:

> > Don't take this the wrong way Halo, but I think I finally figured out
your
> > "nickname" of "losthalo". Fallen Angel indeed. ;]
>
> In fact it is a heckuva lot more complicated than that, but that's one
> interpretation. Like a lot of things I choose for myself, it can swing
both
> ways... It also talks about my realization that I'm no longer a
Christian,
> though I have standards and morals. And it says that maybe instead of
> wanting
> a halo I want other things right now. It also says that maybe a halo
isn't
> worth having, rather there are better ways of judging things and looking
at
> them. Lost illusions and mistaken ideas. Look at me, waxing all
philosophic
> over my netname...
>
>
And in a single breath no less....anyway...back to the listing...
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 22:55:11 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Demon Magnets (new topic for the day)
In-Reply-To: <970714174731_-90577834@*******.mail.aol.com> from "J. Keith
Henry" at Jul 14, 97 05:50:02 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

|
|With the questioning of the horror attractions due to Blood Magic and the
|like, and the various opinions bouncing around like normal, could anyone
|really give a good summary (with light explanations) list of what types of
|phenomenon in general attract "the Horrors."
|
|Good Blood Magic, Evil Blood Magic, it's all "en muerto magicke de sanguine"
|(gods I hope I got that right).

Well, you could add VERY STRONG emotional echoes to that list.
When the barriers do finally start to break down, I imagine the first places
they'll start to come through will be places like Aushwitz(sp?), and the
Native-American "Re-education" camps.....

(Along with major ritual sites like the GGD and the mini ghost dance
performed by Verner, and Aztlan, what with their prolonged use of bad blood
magic....)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:54:58 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Cyberpsychosis (was cyberware...)

In a message dated 97-07-13 19:43:05 EDT, kimc@**********.COM (Kim
Christiansen) writes:

>
> So, on this topic, I just finished reading Never Deal With A Dragon again,
> and there was this dude named Radley in the book that was definite
> Cyber-Psychosis. He was flat out wacked. How do you fit that into the game
> via SR rules. I have a character in my game that unless his CyberWare
wasn't
> Alpha grade, he'd be a cyberzombie. He played it cool, detached, not quite
> human. But would it manifest itself as a detachment from humanity or a
> revenge on humanity??????????????
>
> kim
>
>
Actually, Kim, that is something that would have to be decided by the GM and
yourself, IMO. Humanity, of which the games here have an attribute for, is
something that reflects much.

Something I found interesting is the Otaku "Charisma" definition is fairly
upbeat. It is the "reflection of the self image." Now I know that Willpower
is the Cybermantic attribute of effect, but what about Charisma. Couldn't
that be part of the formula as well?
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:58:17 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Fluffy? (Was: Re: Mysticism [New Spells for Old,)

In a message dated 97-07-13 21:03:25 EDT, justin@******.NET (Jaymz) writes:

> #Actually, it's really lost its power to offend anyone but the really
> sensitive
> #even today. It's bland now, overused, and can't really get to you.
> I dunno, what would happen if you happened to say it to you boss??
>
Mine would be listening to see if I was still mad at her. She's made othe
remarks where she's twisted mine, and other's, words. However, I got really
made when a box broke and shattered my toes last year, started swearing SR
style and it really through her for a loop. She knew the intent, but
actually asked me what they all meant.

-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 18:03:39 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Aura Shrouding (was Re: Area of Effect Spells and Astral
Targeting)
Comments: To: mbreton@**.netcom.com

In a message dated 97-07-14 00:15:54 EDT, mbreton@**.netcom.com (Matb)
writes:

>
> Again, depending on how you reason Masking. The spell bumps into a fake
> aura (or is given false parameters by the casting mage). Well, it looks
> like it's the target, so it flows through - but to where? If it's a
> falso image, it is by definition .not. the aura of the target. Ergo,
> difficulties.
>
>
I know that in the games here, the concept of a "false auras to trick combat
magic" has come into debate about a year ago. The decision reached had
something to do with the on example of "thisaurawilldothankyouverymuch"
(forgot the rest, blocked the wrong part for replying).

We created an Illusion spell we dubbed Aura Shroud, which creates a "truly
false aura" with no groundable solution, thus directed combat magic and
similar magic (such as Mind Probe) would fail. Of course there was a "spell
intelligence" test, sort of like perceiving invisibility involved, just keep
some game balance.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:55:50 -0700
Reply-To: caric@********.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: [OT] Happy Fun Ball!!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

GRANITE wrote:
>
> Since nobody else mentioned it..I'll do it..
>
> M
> I
> C
> R
> O
>
> S
> P
> O
> I
> L
> E
> R
>
> F
> O
> R
>
> M
> i
> B
>
> Did anyone else Notice the Happy Fum Ball [TM] in MiB?? I started
> laughing in the theater as soon as I Saw it..My wife thought I was
> crazy...

Well Granite...you are crazy. I did see the happy fun ball though and
laughed my ass of as well. :)

Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 18:09:28 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Demon Magick [New Topic for the Day!]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

As to what types of things attracts Horrors [or as they're known in
Shadowrun, The ENEMY], I'd say suffering, pain, any violent emotion.
Hate, anger.
This is for those that feed on this sort of hting.
Others are attracted by life, pure and simple. They thrive on the
destruction of life, consumption of the life force.
Some feed on flesh. There are [or will be in a few thou years] that
will pretty much feed on just about anything and EVERYTHING. They're
what caused the Scourge, stripping the land of everything.
Thankfully, the Mana Level 'atmosphere' is too low to support the
VAST majority of them, but one or two have been slipping thru the
cracks, if only for a short while, like a fish temporarily out of the
water.
It's only when great transforming magicks like The Great Ghost
Dance, or the [.01 MP block deleted by sysop] in the Shadowrun book,
House of the Rising Sun, occur that the 'atmosphere is made JUST that
much more livible for these creatures to return.
They're presence in the SR World should be RARE. Players should
only have ONE direct encounter with such evil in the course of their
character's lifetime. Of course, that doesn't rule out encountering
those mortals who have literally 'sold their souls' for the power these
beings bring, in exchange for preparing the world for their return
[think Mr. Morden from Babylon 5. He's the perfect example of such an
agent.].
And like the Shadows, The Enemy is still VERY weak, so to speak,
which makes their machinations, when they do come about, all the more
Machievellian.

Kohl, whose getting a SHUSH! from a strange painted faced elf, replying
'WHAAT?!?'.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:05:42 -0700
Reply-To: caric@********.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: Whatever happend to the photos?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Steven A. Tinner wrote:
>
> Maybe Steve K, or Mike could better answer this question, but ... Does
> anyone know
>
> A - Who took those cool photos that are in the Seattle and London
> Sourcebooks?
> B - Why (aside from price) FASA stopped using photos in their books?
>
> I always like them, but being a photo minor in college, that's to be
> expected. ;-)
>
> Also, we're thinking of dressing up a certain Ork Decker, and need some
> suggestions for how to make DURABLE, easy to weat tucksm and ear points.

Try using the vulcan ears, I know you can buy those at specialty stores
like Spencers and such.

> The greenish skin tone comes natural to Bull, so that shouldn't be a
> problem ... ;-)

I'm sure it does. :)

Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:15:04 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Court Schuett <schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Demon Magick [New Topic for the Day!]
In-Reply-To:
<c=US%a=_%pÞSHAW%l=MSBOSTON1-970714220928Z-8204@*********.boston.deshaw.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> Thankfully, the Mana Level 'atmosphere' is too low to support the
> VAST majority of them, but one or two have been slipping thru the
> cracks, if only for a short while, like a fish temporarily out of the
> water.
> It's only when great transforming magicks like The Great Ghost
> Dance, or the [.01 MP block deleted by sysop] in the Shadowrun book,
> House of the Rising Sun, occur that the 'atmosphere is made JUST that
> much more livible for these creatures to return.

I don't think it's too low for them to live in, just too low for them to
get through. Once they get through, they can exist for awhile in the
lower mana world. It's the getting through that's the hard part.
Spoilers for Mike

A character in my group (BTW we love the whole ED/SR crossover stuff, and
made characters accordingly) was basically Thought wormed as a child. He
killed 13 people before Tir tairngire mages could get the 'spirit' out of
him. Now it has come back with a vengeance. They just released it,
rahter unwittingly, of course. Now they have to deal with it. :)
Should be interesting. They already 'killed' the horror in the kaer.
Actually just an incredibly good illusion. I'm looking forward to a
summer of terror. :)
If anybody else has any really good ideas about what to do to them,
please share. :)

-Court

/* Court Schuett, a totally modern boy.

schuett@*****.ivcc.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The bells are pealing
And they're revealing
The simple key to happiness
It isn't evil it isn't good it's only
What the bells possess
The bells explain what they've been missing all along
They were disorganized and that was what was wrong
And now they know
The way to go:
The bells are ringing, they hear the sound
-They Might Be Giants
*******************************************************************************/
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 18:31:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Demon Magick [New Topic for the Day!]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

SPOILERS FOR MIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!
!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!
!
!!
!
!!
!!
!
!!
!
!
Thirty Lines for Spike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

> I'm looking forward to a summer of terror. :) If anybody else has any
>really good ideas about what to do to them, please share. :)
>
> Hmmm, you raise an interesting point there on my 'slipping thru the
>cracks' and hanging around once they'r e here. That fit's with the whole
>'[.01 delet by sysop] the Enemy are trying to build in Harlequin's Back. I'm
>reconsidering it.
> Looking for ideas to torture you players? How cruel! How juvenile! How
>much info do you want to make their lives REALLY miserable!!!
>
>GaRGiRe@*^@&#^@#&^@ the Unspeakable (Really!), Evil GM, Taxidermist, Notary
>Public.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 18:32:45 -0700
Reply-To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: Spell types (was Re: Centering vs Penalties)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> A Manaball, or any Area of Effect Combat Magic, does NOT ground into all the
> auras that are within the potential area of effect. It only grounds into a
> single target, then blossoms inversely (outward in) into manifestation
> afterwards. Thus, if you hit the guy with a Body of 4 with a Powerball, gain
> 6 successes, and there are three targets with higher body in that area, they
> they are resisting the spell based upon the 6 successes, and not upon their
> own attributes.

Erm. Bad things happen from this. Target the powerball at the Elf Mage
(body 1) and the Troll really sucks it in. Or worse, target it into the
microbe (body: fractional) and watch ever'body keel on over.

I think it's been explained that you take the dice rolled by the mage
and compare it individually to each target (er, subject.. each affected
person, let's leace it at that).

Mage rolls 3, 3, 6, 11:

Guy with (Att) 3 resists v. 4 successes
Troll with (Att) 8 resists v. 1 success.

I've always pictured manaballs as having an Akira effect: This (x,y,z)
area No Longer Exists.

> At least that is how it's been interpreted by the people here...(shrug).

> -Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 22:20:44 GMT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Shadowrun ML demon <shadowrn-ml@*******.hanse.de>"
<shadowrn-ml@*******.HANSE.DE>
Organization: Nightmare on Coin Street
Subject: Re: Physical Adept Powers

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Aaron Jones <aaronj@******.COM> writes:

> With the recent posts about physical adepts (and me playing my
> first), I was wondering what (if any) new powers other people had come up
> with. Any takers?

You might check out our (still uncomplete) set of houserules we put on
the net under:

http://porter.desy.de/~greve/houserules/

or (if the direct access doesn't work) via my homepage (address in
signature). We got some new PhysAd powers there. Mostly from the PA
Handybook that was kinda outdated by the Awakenings plus the abilities
in the PA handybook were either vastly overpowered or too cheap,
usually.

You can also find a gzipped postscript version on my page in case you
like hardcopies... ;-)

Later,
Georg

- --
Georg C. F. Greve <greve@*******.hanse.de>
http://porter.desy.de/~greve/
"People who fight may lose. People who do not
fight have already lost." -- Bertold Brecht

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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:30:01 -0700
Reply-To: caric@********.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Fluffy?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

GRANITE wrote:
>
> >...... Anyway, it's true I
> > mean look at the word "bitch" it has been slang for awhile, but it
> > really isn't a big deal anymore,.......... Once it makes it
> > to TV it's just not offensive anymore durnit!!!
>
> If ya think so..try and say it to my wife..But I advise you to
> duck..quickly..And then running would probably also be good advice..
> :)

I'll jot that down. :)

BTW Granite when I select reply to author on your mails from the list
they default to your personal address. Other's don't however. Maybe
i'm the only one, but I thought that I would point it out.

Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:04:45 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <ltwiss@****.cyberport.net>
From: VÆL <ltwiss@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Net Books Locations
In-Reply-To: <818.199707142114@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

If memory serves correctly, Spike wrote:

> |
> |Where are the net books located at??
> |And is there a list of them??
>
> If you wait a while, and read peoples .sigs, most of the URLs are in
> there....
>
> Pay particular attention to Gurths sig....

Maybe it's the way I'm reading the above... but it would seem as
though you are feeling a bit snippy today, aren't you Spike? <g>

In short form:

Location to start finding SR Net Books
http://www.interware.it/shadowrun
Look under the link: NERPS

As for a list of Net books:
Paolo has the best archive on the net. (IMHO)

Vael

"One of the most terrible moments in a boy's life, is when he discovers
his father and mother are human beings who share a love that he
can never quite taste. It's a loss, an awakening to the fact that
the world is there and here and we are in it alone.
The moment carries it's own truth; you can't evade it."
- Duke Paul-Muad'Dib Atreides
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:15:37 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <ltwiss@****.cyberport.net>
From: VÆL <ltwiss@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Whatever happend to the photos?
In-Reply-To: <199707140621.CAA17629@***.ncweb.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

If memory serves correctly, Steven A. Tinner wrote:

> Maybe Steve K, or Mike could better answer this question, but ... Does
> anyone know
>
> A - Who took those cool photos that are in the Seattle and London
> Sourcebooks?
> B - Why (aside from price) FASA stopped using photos in their books?
>
> I always like them, but being a photo minor in college, that's to be
> expected. ;-)

I, personally, thought they looked a bit hoakie. I mean come on, what
is with the maid's uniform on the restaurant hostess lady? Or the
plastic lumps on the "ork's" face?

I look at the photo's and laugh. Sorry, but I really do. Of all the
art work done by FASA the material I have spent the least amount of
time looking at is the RL photos.

But then again, I hate, and I do mean hate, live action RPing. When I
look at those photo's I instantly think: convention costumes.

Hoakie. <smile>

Vael

"One of the most terrible moments in a boy's life, is when he discovers
his father and mother are human beings who share a love that he
can never quite taste. It's a loss, an awakening to the fact that
the world is there and here and we are in it alone.
The moment carries it's own truth; you can't evade it."
- Duke Paul-Muad'Dib Atreides
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 19:41:32 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Plot idea for a Media-based Shadowrun
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I just had an idea for a Shadowrun for media type characters, as
presented under the alternatives in the Shadowrun Companion book.
After having just sat thru a marathon with a bunch of friends,
watching Full Metal Jacket, Braveheart, and Apocalypse Now, and Forrest
Gump (hey, we needed something to keep us from killing ourselves :-), it
gave me that oh so gentle reminder of how crazy war REALLY is.
A good friend of mine was an Airboure Ranger, and some of the
SNAFUs he tell me about when he was in the service, have me almost
ROFLOL in shocked horror! (No, NOT you! <beats astral critter back with
stick>).
Anyway, since war up until now is really just a 'controlled' bunch
of insanity, how much more so would it be like where you have large
armies of corporate mercenaries, slugging it out, not over food, or
territory, or racial disputes or religion, but over RATINGS, and who can
field the better weponry, to better annilate the enemy. (<looks to side>
Don't start! <hears whimper in background>)
The media characters could be covering the war from the POV of the
soldiers who actually have to duke it out in this insanity, while their
corporate masters sit thousands of miles away, drinking mint julips,
congratulating themselves on another business coup. They'd be facing all
the danger and the excitement (?) as they travel with their asigned
platoon, trying to put a human spin on a very inhuman set of
circumstances.
It could also be used to incorporate Army or Marine type
characters, maybe evn Spec Forces, like the Ares FIre Strike Teams, or
Saader Krupps' bad boys. They'd have to bleep out any personal
identities or facts, but that's easy enough. Think of the Squad leader,
whose suddenly saddled with these telejournalists by his corporate
superiors. And the grunts themselves. How do they react to these
'non-combatants'?
And what kind of ho...terrible things would they encounter in the
course of the mission, when you have men (and women) running around,
trying to kill each other in pursuit of an illusitory goal out in the
middle of nowhere? Man isn't all that removed from total savagedry, and
it only takes a little push to knock some people over the edge. Who
knows, some of the atrocities they meet up with may even be perpetrated
by their own group!
Interrogations conducted on captured personnel, by pushing them,
one at a time, out of a flying helecopter? Drumhead trials; battlefield
justice. 'Friendly' Fire?
And what about those indigenous peoples caught up in all the
confilct. You can't convince me that in places like the Middle East,
where some of these peoples have lived for thousands of years, were ALL
evacuated so a couple of corps can have a clear playground?
Okay, enough ranting from me. It jsut always bothered me that these
'Corporate Wars' that keep popping up in game book references are never
explained fully, and seemed mostly a pointless excuse in Whose Got A
Bigger 'Credstick'. Just my spin on things. I'm audi.

Kohl

Joker: How can you shoot women and children?
Gunner: Easy...you don't lead 'em as much.
--from the movie, Full Metal Jacket
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:39:41 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Fluffy?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> I'll jot that down. :)

Put it under rules to -live- by ;)

> BTW Granite when I select reply to author on your mails from the list
> they default to your personal address.

I have been haveing a bit of the same problem..it isn't me it is the
list..Occasionally this starts happening..I havent changed anything
in the way I post for...Hmm..At least 6 months..probably a lot
longer..

> Other's don't however.

I got the same thing from your message..And several others..

Maybe
> i'm the only one, but I thought that I would point it out.

Thanks..
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 19:50:27 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Living material links

On Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:11:22 EDT Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM> writes:

>And of course the last novel shows that it, the sacrifice, doesn't
>always have to be LITERAL.

Careful there. I've only read the first one:)

--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 19:50:28 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: I'd like to know ...

On Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:11:16 MEZ-1MESZ HAUPT ULRICH FB08
<sandman@****.uni-oldenburg.de> writes:
>Hello !
>
>I have thought about some questions which I would like
>to have answered. Maybe some of them are considerable
>to the third edition SR3!
>
>1) Watchers have a base time of 120 minutes to find
>people, (IMO: astrally) known by the summoner. A
>sorcerer travelling astrally has just the role playing
>chance to find someone. And now for the question ...
>Are watchers better at finding people than his master ?

Yes, they are. The watcher *lives* in the etheric plane, it is made up of
the very energies of which the astral consists. In effect, the wather has
the home court advantage (even if he isn't very bright:)

>2) How long does initiation take ?
>I think it should take at least 1 day per grade if
>no quests are wanted.

Actually, in my mind, that depends more on the individual. I just sent
this off to one of my players the other night (please ignore what may be
a slightly condescending tone, the player this was addressed to has a bad
habit of not spelling much of anything even close to right:)

---
You get to be an initiate (pronounced e-ni-she-it) by initiating (long a
sound this time:) Initiating is a special deal for magicians that a)
grants them access to big time magic and b) increases their Magic
Attribute. You initiate by undergoing certain rituals (usually a sort of
introspective self-exploration type thing) and spending a buttload of
Karma;) Ever had one of those moments where you're stuck, can't see the
way out, then suddenly everything just sorta clicks and it all makes
sense? Suddenly, the way out is clearer than anything you've ever seen,
and all that's changed is your point of view. That kind of thing is what
happens in an initiation. You're maxed out, then the initiatory
experience happens and everything is opened up to a whole new level, and
all that's changed at all is your point of view, except that know there's
a whole new list of options open to you. It's a neat deal:)
---

IMO, the initiation itself takes no time at all, it's the sudden changing
of viewpoint, that moment where everything just, well, 'clicks' and
becomes crystal clear. Imaging tackling with a problem from a certain
point of view, suddenly you experience a shifting of your viewpoint, and
the solution becomes clear. That single moment (when you actually
initiate) takes no perceivable amount of time. It's the introspection,
meditation and ritual you spend getting to that point that takes time.

>3) In my opinion the damage from falling is too harmless!
>One Character jumped out of a window and missed the rope.
>So he was falling 14 Meters (ca.42 ft) down on the street.
>He had to resist 6T (7T-halve impact armor) and got only
>medium damage. I think there should be at least some
>broken bones if falling such distances! I suggest the power
>should no be halve hight in Meters. Better take just the
>hight itself!
>What do you think ?

I don't know, where's the rule in question located (FoF?)?

>4) When does the bonding from a focus break ? A thief
>stole two spell locks and a force 2 power focus. I
>could not find a rule what exactly must happen to break
>the bonding! Is it enough to seperate the focus (what
>distance?) from the wizard or be there be something
>magical?

Well, the focus goes inactive as soon as it leaves the hands/person of
the owner (the person the focus is bonded to). The only way you can
actually lose the bonding itself, however, is a) for it to be overcome in
astral combat (ala grounding) or b) for someone else to invest Karma in
bonding the focus. The appropriate texts are pg. 137 (Bonding) and pg.
139 (Grounding Through Foci) of the BBB.

>5) If the bonding was not broken shouldn't it be very
>simple for the sorcerer to track the astral trace back ?
>How does a hermetic circle or ward disturb the astral
>line ? Any ideas ?

Well, the caster can send a watcher to find the item, but it will stopped
by a ward, or a hermetic circle (if in use) or a medicine lodge. Seems
like I remember that a focus can be used as a material link in ritual
sorcery, but can't find the reference anywhere. Is this a house rule I
saw on the list, or could someone please give me the page reference for
it?

>6) And now for something completely different ;-)
>Which modifiers conzern an attacker shooting out of a
>driving car shooting someone running from it ?
>(A Chrysler-Nissan Patrol-One driving at 25 mph through
>a park hunting the _poor_ shaddow runners running away!)

I'd say probably just the Attacker running modifier (Target Running maybe
also, GM's discretion)

>7) I found in VRII that the damage codes have the following effect:
>L - 1 box
>M - 2 boxes
>S - 3 boxes
>T - 6 boxes

For those wondering, that's in the section on icon damage, specifically
the condition monitor table (page 124) of VR2 (my copy, anyway). I seem
to have a first printing (at least, I can't find a printing number
[though I can't find one on my copy of Grimmy, either, and I know it's
not first printing]). In any case, could someone with a later printing
check their copy?

>Is it a printing error or didn't I got the idea ? (I'm sure you
>have disussed this earlier, haven't you ? )

I don't know. If we've talked about it before, I missed it, and the same
thing appears in my copy, too.

>thank you for your effords of answering me !

Don't mention it:)

--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 19:50:28 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Changing the System (Was [SR3] Magical Magic)

On Mon, 14 Jul 1997 11:56:05 -0500 "Bruce H. Nagel"
<NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU> writes:
<snip>
>Obviously the Drain CAtegory +1 modifiers aren't enough.
>Damage Staging 1 should prolly be +2 Drain category or +1 Drain and +X
>Drain
>Target # to resist. This makes it harder to just shrug off that
>Deadly Drain.

Here's what I'd use, if I were to decide to allow a spell designer to
alter the staging involved in the spell:

Staging for Drain or Beneficial Spell Effects (Heal, Combat Sense, etc)
1 +2DL
2 -
3 -1DL

Staging for Damaging/Detrimental Spell Effects (Control Thoughts, Mana
Bolt, etc, etc)
1 -1DL
2 -
3 +2DL

This all assumes that the caster's staging for the spell effect remains
2. The Effect Staging modifiers also would not apply that way to
beneficial spells, only to damaging ones.

--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 19:50:28 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Area of Effect Spells and Astral Targeting

On Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:24:45 -0500 "Bruce H. Nagel"
<NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU> writes:

<snipping myself>
<<Actually, it states that you cannot target someone by seeing a bit of
their aura around a corner, for instance.>>

Well, the target must be within the caster's LOS (and partial cover
modifiers apply, lighting mods wouldn't necessarily on the Astral). So
long as you can see enough of them to hit them with a gun (skill and
lighting aside:), you can target them with a spell.

<<I've been informed of a change in this in a later printing of the BBB
which does allow astral sight to target without the need for physical
sight.>>

My copy's 11th printing, what's yours?

<<No, I'm not kidding. Even being informed that assensing can be used to
target otherwise invisible opponents can make sense to me. What is so
confusing? I think people get confused with this system when they start
bringing their own assumptions to it, or draw conclusions out too far.
Certainly a few points (grounding, though once I read the sections and
understood it, I don't have a problem making rulings on this myself)
confuse people but for the most part it's clear.>>

The problem is that if the book were laid out _that_ clearly, no-one
would have these problems:) And, as *I* read the section of book
pertinent to this discussion (Spell Targeting, p 130, SR2), Astral
Perception becomes a perfectly valid method for spell targeting, with the
restriction that the person must be able to see the target with their own
vision or an extension of that vision which does not technologically
enhance or alter the original image of the target. For that matter, I
always found that the way the Astral stuff is written up to be fairly
clear (all things have an astral reflection, this reflection behaves in
*most* respects as the object itself. Glass is transparent and can be
assensed through, mirrors reflect, both the image of the person and the
astral image of the person's aura. A magnifying lens magnifies, even on
the astral. Why? Because that's what those objects do! :) However,
conctention exists, because some parts of the descriptions involved don't
make sense (like, inanimate objects' astral reflection is due to
reflected light? Hmmm, maybe reflected *elemental* light [like sunlight
or firelight]). Things need to be clarified, explained, and organized
(Why do I need to read three different sections of one book, plus
portions of another book, just to figure out spell targetting?).
Everything that's pertinent to a particular section should be included in
that section, which it isn't right now. I'd like to see that changed,
even if it means some information gets repeated (not an entirely bad
thing, since I was told that it can take hearing something 16 times
before a person *really* commits it to memory [gross generalization, I
only take about 3 or 4, 5 or 6 at most, usually:) ]).

--
-Canthros (did I rambel enough? :)
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 19:50:28 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Targeting <warning-grounding involved>

On Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:30:04 -0500 "Bruce H. Nagel"
<NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU> writes:

<<My take on spell targeting prior to hearing of the correction in the
3rd printing was this: All spells need a 'bridge' from astral to the
physical to affect the target.>>

With you so far...

<<In grounding, an active focus provides this astral-to-physical
bridge.>>

Still with you:)

<<Otherwise, something must provide it. In the case of my previous
understanding, wherein physical sight (not assensing) could provide this,
allowing the spell to travel to the target's aura and ground from it into
their physical form (doing damage or what-have-you).>>

Okay, now our opinions diverge:) I've always figured spells ground into
the auras of astrally inactive auras (like that of a mundane or inaminate
object) by traveling through a sort of 'limbo' somewhere between the
etheric and mundane planes. On further thought, this doesn't quite work,
but...

<<Something needed to provide this bridge. Now, if they reversed
themselves in the 3rd printing and decided that assensing *could* target
a spell for a target you could not physically see, well... Now there is
a gap.>>

I'm still not sure what you mean. The book doesn't say that you can
target something you can't see (except indirectly in the case of
area-effect Manipulations), but it does say you cannot directly target a
person that you cannot see, because you cannot 'see' their aura to synch
with it. The caster has to have LOS to the target (and yes, glass and
mirrors, as well as partial cover modifiers, count). As I said in
another post, if you have enough LOS to aim a gun at them (or their
image, in the case of mirrors), you can target them with a spell. The
advantage of Astral Perceiving is being able to ignore lighting modifiers
(under normal circumstances).

<<What forms the 'bridge' here? Their astral-aura-to-body connection?
No, because if they are a mundane, or a magician lacking active foci, you
cannot cast spells on them from the astral, can you? An active focus on
them would allow you to, because it is a constant bridge. When astral
(assensing or projecting) you could only cast at astrally active targets
(spirits, foci, barriers, et cetera).>>

Warning!
Grounding Ahead!
Warning!

Not so, because you are still active on the physical plane while
perceiving, you're still receiving info from those senses, they've just
been shoved a bit out of the way in order to give the astral information
dominance. Spells seem to be a special case, because they require that
the caster have a presence on the same plane as the target of the spell,
not that the spell itself be active on the physical plane (were it that
way, you'd only be able to cast physical manipulations at mundanes and
inanimate objects). Spells seem to create their effect by manifesting in
a very specific way which releases that energy on the target according to
the caster's desires. The spell effect is produced by the transfer of a
spell's astral energy to the physical plane, resulting in a *temporarily*
dual-natured entity, which almost immediately afterward becomes
single-natured (extrapolating this from the description in the Grimoire).
Sustained spells create a similar effect, but they must (seemingly)
remain dual-natured so long as they are sustained. Also, the act of
spell-casting connects the auras of the casting magician and that of
his/her target(s). Presumably, one can ground through a sustained spell
(or a sustaining magician) by nature of this fact (you know, for the
first time in my life, I begin to see the logic behind that stance), and
grounding in this manner could also hit the target(s) of the spell, as
well as hitting the spell and magician sustaining it. The reason you
can't ground through a sustained spell:

The spell construct is the same as the spell itself, and the channel that
the magician opens up to funnel astral energy into it is part of the
spell. They are one and the same and it is never implied (IMO) that they
are separate distinct entities in astral space. And a spell cannot target
another spell (p 148, SR2). This is also the only reason I can think of
for not being able to ground through a sustained Manipulation
(Manipulations seem (to me) to be dual-natured by the description I read
on 150 of SR2). Note: manipulations require a physical presence in order
to be cast.

This most recent insight also explains to me why a magician suffers Drain
from casting a spell: it's not the channeling of astral energy through
his body, he doesn't channel astral energy through his body or you'd have
a sustaining magician suffer drain *every*turn*the*spell*is*sustained*.
The Drain is the result of the act of will involved in making the astral
energy do what you want, the act of making it work according to the
formula of the spell being cast.

<<This is why I thought the way I did, and would like an explanation if
someone has one handy, as to how a bridge for the spell is formed without
physical senses finding the target.>>

The magician's physical senses still need to be able to locate and obtain
LOS to the target, they just don't need to be the dominant set of senses.

Disclaimer: this post may inflame certain sensitivities. This is not
intentional. All opinions expressed in this post are, by no means, the
only way of interpreting the rules as they are written. The expressed
opinions are mine, and mine alone, and, while they may be shared by other
members of this mailing list, they are still an opinion, nothing more.

--
-Canthros (Wow! I think that's the most reasoned statement I've ever had
on this subject!)
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:22:13 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Net Books Locations

On Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:14:31 -0500 Black Death <ddmaster@**.NET> writes:
>Where are the net books located at??
>And is there a list of them??

Easy question:)

hit
http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html
or just hit Paolo Marcucci's 'The Shadowrun Archive'
<http://www.interware.it/shadowrun>; and hit the NERPS and NAGEE links.
Also hit 'The Drekhead' on the The Shadowrun Webring
<http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503/srring.html>; for a few more
net.sourcebooks. Anyone know of any net.books that I missed?

--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:40:46 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Demon Magnets (new topic for the day)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> From: J. Keith Henry <Ereskanti@***.COM>
> Date: Monday, July 14, 1997 5:50 PM

> With the questioning of the horror attractions due to Blood Magic and the
> like, and the various opinions bouncing around like normal, could anyone
> really give a good summary (with light explanations) list of what types
of
> phenomenon in general attract "the Horrors."

> Good Blood Magic, Evil Blood Magic, it's all "en muerto magicke de
sanguine"
> (gods I hope I got that right).

Could someone please tell me where to find the rules for Good and Evil
blood magic? Private e-mail is fine, as I am sure the list hates this
question (among others). ;)

> -keith

Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 02:04:51 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Plot idea for a Media-based Shadowrun
In-Reply-To:
<c=US%a=_%pÞSHAW%l=MSBOSTON1-970714234132Z-8238@*********.boston.deshaw.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0

In article <c=US%a=_%pÞSHAW%l=MSBOSTON1-970714234132Z-8238@*********.b
oston.deshaw.com>, "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM> rambled
on endlessly about Plot idea for a Media-based Shadowrun

<snip>
> The media characters could be covering the war from the POV of the
>soldiers who actually have to duke it out in this insanity, while their
>corporate masters sit thousands of miles away, drinking mint julips,
>congratulating themselves on another business coup. They'd be facing all
>the danger and the excitement (?) as they travel with their asigned
>platoon, trying to put a human spin on a very inhuman set of
>circumstances.
<bigger snip>

Some time ago, during the Hollywood fascination with "anti-war" films a
very good movie was produced and released under the title Charlie Mo-
Pic, I'm not sure what it was released as in the states, and as it's
been several years since I've seen it, I can't remember the director,
sorry. However, it gives an excellent view of the Vietnam war from the
pov of a documentary cameraman filming with a group of grunts. Some
very good character study, and although you only see "Charlie" once, the
camera "eye" was well done, and might go a long way to assisting in the
appearance of this type of scenario. It would be difficult to run, and
would require some considerable creativity on the parts of the "media"
player(s), it might however, make for interesting reading.

One way I got round the problem of players running media personalities,
was to make them submit articles for a newspaper I was producing for the
game, it encouraged them to research the game world, and concentrate on
events that occured. A couple of the articles were very well done, but
with a recent change of players, the newspaper has been temporarily
dropped. Media are possibly the hardest of the shadowrun character
types to run and design for, as everything depends on ratings,
sensationalism and dramatics. However, if done right, and it takes a
little practice, it can be great fun. In fact we've got a journalist
character about to join the group, so I will be interested to see how
that develops. If nothing else, it should add some paranoia to the team
when they see their runs reported accurately in the gutter press <g> No
names of course :)

--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk

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