| From: | Unknown sender |
|---|---|
| Subject: | None |
| Date: | Unknown time and date |
1.3 MB in my inbox thats realy impressive.
BTW : I have crossed the 500 Karmapoints yesterday.
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:07:18 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Back to spoiler spaces, but don;t even *THINK*
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:42 AM 7/15/97 +0100, Avenger wrote these timeless words:
>>Just a thought... Have you ever thought about stopping reading as
>>soon as you realize there are spoilers in the mail?
>>You shouldn't see more than one or two lines then...
>>And they can't spoil too much, can they?
>
>Actually they can. Not having caught the beginning of this particular
>sequence of posts, I can only assume it is B5 related, but one example
>occured a while back. Several of my players subscribed to this list last
>year, someone decided to post a comment to the list starting with
>something like...
>
[SNIP example of Dunky Spoiler]
It was indeed B5 related, and basically, they gave away the season finale.
That alone woud have pissed me off, had I not seen the episode...
Something similar HAS happened to me on another list, and one of the
reason's I encourage the Spoiler Spaces. I was on the Raymond Feist
mailing list (He writes a series of Excellent Riftwar novels. Check em
out!:)), and several months ago, his latest book came out. I wasn;t able
to get it right away, so for about 3 weeks, I couldn't read 90% of the
messages because they were about the new book.
Anyways, one day a mesage come across with "I can't believe he kills off
person X, Y and Z!" as his entire post.
These three had been major characters in earlier books, and when I finally
got the book, I spent the entire time reading it going "Is this where they
die?". It kinda really ruined the whole scene when they did die, because
it lost a lot of impact cause I expected it...
Also, if anyone ever DIDN'T put in spoiler spaces when Tinner starts
tossing ideas at you guys for his campaign, I'd guarantee a flame from me,
as well as from him, because I LIKE to be surprised... (Though I do peek
at my christmas presents early...:))
>>
>> ss (who dares writing this, knowing that bull is one of the
>> civilized listmembers who will answer in a polite
>> language, won't he?)
>
>Not if he can help it. Bull is surprisingly reserved a lot of the time,
>but don't make the mistake of thinking him civilised. He is an Ork
>after all...
>
><Ducks into shelter - again> :)
>
Ook ook, Petey... Ook ook :]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:07:22 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Bull's kids are dead (Was - Re: Living material links)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:49 AM 7/15/97 +0100, Avenger wrote these timeless words:
>In article <199707140249.WAA10604@***.ncweb.com>, "Steven A. Tinner"
><bluewizard@*****.COM> rambled on endlessly about Bull's kids are dead
>(Was - Re: Living material links)
>>> Oooooohohohooo.... You are being an evil GM....
>>> Not one of Bulls kids though.... Pretty please?
>>
>>Man what's with everybody and Bulls stinky foul Ork babies?
>>Here I thought I had done the world a favor by letting the Juggernaut eat
>>them ...
>
>Oh puhleeease!
>
>Steve, please tell me you are going to obliterate that slimy little
>Billy - and Reba really _should_ be taken off to be a bug queen. I
>tried so hard to get them obliterated, they're simply toooooo sugar
>sweet and sickly to be left to poison this planet... especially that
>Billy. I mean the next time they start eating the furniture, couldn't
>Bull have bought it from a second hand merchant who extracted it from a
>toxic swamp or something equally as nice. :)
>
>
><hiding in a deep hole now that Bull's babies have been threatened>
>
<<The big Ork starts strapping on heavy armor, and grabs his trusty Panther
assault cannon and a pocketful of grenades...:)>>
You *COULDN'T* leave the family alone, could you??
<<Ready!>>
<<AIM!>>
Bull-the-ready-to-fire-ork-decker
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:00:15 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Paper (Was Re: Hacking)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970715091439.007c8800@***.iquest.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Jaymz said on 9:14/15 Jul 97...
> Why would you have to get a new book on chip, why not just download it.
>
> That alone *should* lower the cost significantly
Only if you get it from a free site. I imagine a publisher would want to
charge people for downloading -- the way I'd set this up is to only allow
members in, who then pay to get access to (i.e. download) the file. If you
charge for membership too, then in essence you've set up a book club on
the Matrix.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:00:15 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Paper (Was Re: Hacking)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970715085407.006ac028@****.lis.ab.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Adam J said on 8:54/15 Jul 97...
> My take on the book chips is a basic optical chip with the book burned into
> it, but no file system, and the book itself can't be loaded onto any normal
> computer, to prevent basic means of piracy. The chip would have to be
> copied completely to pirate it.
All you need is an adapter to slot the book-chip into a computer, then you
can copy it onto another (normal) chip, a CD, or whatever. Now use a
disassembler to see how the custom reader does what it does, and you're
ready to write a reader or an emulator for your everyday computer...
Compare it to Nintendo games: you can't run them on a PC because the
cartridges won't fit into the PC anywhere. But put the right type of
connector onto the PC (from an old and/or broken Nintendo, for example),
then write an emulator for the actual computer that's in the Nintendo
system, and you can play the games on your PC.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:00:15 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: [OT] 84 Charlie MoPic
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970715112613.006f7604@***>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Faux Pas (Thomas) said on 11:26/15 Jul 97...
> At 02:04 AM 7/15/97 +0100, Avenger whispered:
> >Some time ago, during the Hollywood fascination with "anti-war" films
a
> >very good movie was produced and released under the title Charlie Mo-
> >Pic, I'm not sure what it was released as in the states, and as it's
> >been several years since I've seen it,
A very good movie indeed... Got it on video, as a matter of fact. You only
get to see the cameraman three times in the whole movie, and it looks so
much more real than most other war movies.
> >From the Internet Movie Database (us.imdb.com/uk.imdb.com):
>
> Plot Summary for
> 84 Charlie Mopic (1989)
[snip]
> 7.8/10 (35 votes)
I'll have to check this out... if it's some kind of on-line voting thing,
they can expect another one from me.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:00:15 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: [OT] Fish & Chips (Was Re: Hacking)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970715072045.006e2cac@****.lis.ab.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Adam J said on 7:20/15 Jul 97...
> Mmm...Fish and Chips... mmmmm..
>
> *More assorted drooling noises*
Have you ever tried to actually eat British chips? Bleurgh...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:00:15 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: FAQ Stuff (Was Re: Back to spoiler spaces)
In-Reply-To: <1287.199707151428@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Spike said on 15:28/15 Jul 97...
> Back in the early days, or dark ages, when Listproc was still running, the
> FAQ was sent as part of the subscription procedure.
>
> All new listmembers automatically received it, the moment they subscribed.
I wouldn't say that too fast if I were you... IIRC, JD once told me he got
notified by the old Listserv (the Hearn one) of who subscribed, and he had
a script send them the FAQ. It wasn't Listserv itself doing that, so I
have a feeling Listproc didn't do it automatically either.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:00:15 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Mailing list Digest ?
In-Reply-To: <199707151515.RAA06229@******.passagen.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Stefan said on 17:14/15 Jul 97...
> So if I ask the same question someone had asked before what keeps the
> same from comming up again and frankly I can live without that.
The same questions get posted to the list all the time, and I've never
really seen anyone get insulting over any of them. We do tend to
discourage a small number of subjects, mainly FAB and grounding through
sustained or quickened spells, but apart from that I don't think you need
to be afraid to ask a question.
> I simple got the address from a fellow GameMaster and he said that this
> was supposedly a nice source of information.
It is. It's also a sort of small community, and the old-timers especially
tend to joke about and with things we've learned about the others. I can
imagine how newcomers may think this is somehow aggressive behavior, but
on the whole I'd say we're a friendly enough bunch of people.
> After going thru the waste amount of mails I do recive from this
> mailing list I noticed a pattern. There is about 20 or so people that
> apparently says everything ...
That would be the right conclusion. It's probabl more than 20, but
definitely not all 200 people say something regularly, and many of them
never post at all. Which one you want to be is completely up to you, as
far as I'm (and most others are) concerned.
> Most other people are just readers. If they say something they just get
> barraged with insults and crap cause this has already been discussed
> before ...
Sorry, but in my experience that's not true. Sure, there are some people
who get irritated over certain matters (Spike didn't become the second
list.member.grumpy for nothing, for example) but IMO that's not because
we've seen most threads before. Do you really think that if I were to get
angry with a new member for bringing up something I've seen before, that
I'd still subscribe to this list? Hell, I must have seen just about every
thread there is about Shadowrun :)
> Well excuse the newcomers ... Can't you people just ignore it then
> instead of spewing back your haterade over the new subscribers. GROW UP
> DAMNIT!
What hatred?
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:00:15 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Fluffy?
In-Reply-To: <33CBB318.4F4@********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Caric said on 10:27/15 Jul 97...
> > as do yours, Caric
>
> Really?!?!?!? Hmmmm...
>
> <sound of saws and hammering>
>
> There hopefully that fixed it.
No, it doesn't. The whole trouble is this:
Date sent: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 10:27:52 -0700
Send reply to: caric@********.com
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
From: Caric <caric@********.com>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Fluffy?
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
As has been said lots of time before (hi there, Stefan! :) Listserv
doesn't override reply-to headers. So anyone who finds he/she's getting
personal replies that look like they should have gone to the list would do
good to check if their mailers aren't inserting reply-to fields into the
message. I myself, for instance, have intentionally left that field blank
in my mailer to avoid these sorts of things.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:25:09 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: A New Thread for Gurth
In-Reply-To: <199707152004.OAA01681@******> from "Gurth" at Jul 15,
97 10:00:15 pm
Content-Type: text
Gurth wrote:
|
| Hell, I must have seen just about every
| thread there is about Shadowrun :)
<grin>
Did you know how versatile the BBB is? You can roll it up and make a
telescope out of it, or a voice projection tube. Or you can open it half
way, put it on your head, and you've got a hat! Take it off your head and
flap it up and down (still half open) and make cawing noises and you've got
a bird. It makes a nice placemat. A well-worn copy can be used as a
doormat. Run it through a paper shredder and you've got confetti (note,
this only works once). Stuff it in your shirt and you've got makeshift
body armor.
What can you do with the BBB?
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:30:01 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: 2XS/Dirk Montgomery (Was Combat Spells -- Level 6?)
In-Reply-To: <v03007801aff1662371bb@[206.129.19.9]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:41 7/15/97 -0800, you wrote:
>>Then its a good thing I'm smart enough to generate my own NPC's, to match
>>the ones FASA publishes.
>
>I think he was saying the Shadowrun characters are always a bit
>more powerful than Franky the Fish & Chips Seller... It had nothing
>to do with being "smart" enough to generate other NPC's to match
>PC's in your campaign, IMO. Shadowrun characters are made to
>be special, after all, this isn't Hot Dog Vendor vs. Ice Cream
>Man. Heh... The Ares Corndog Shooter vs. The Ares *Bomb* Pop. :]
I was tired when I made that post, and it shows. I'm even more tired now,
but, I'm just gonna clarify it quickly.
The NPC's my player characters meet are matched to their level, whether
they are corn dog venders, ganger punks, corp hit men, or damien knights
personal fitness trainer.
Its not a case of me playing or GM'ing 'Average joe' type characters,
either. I'm just not a fan of a hugely high powered campaign, its not the
way I see the Shadowrun world at all.
-Adam
-Aj
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 17:31:42 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: A New Thread for Gurth
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
> Date: Tuesday, July 15, 1997 5:25 PM
> What can you do with the BBB?
Well, if you put it on someone's chest before smashing them with a baseball
bat, it won't leave marks... ;)
> -David
> http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
> --
> "Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
> which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:40:19 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: A New Thread for Gurth
In-Reply-To: <199707152132.RAA12975@****.provide.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 17:31 7/15/97 -0400, you wrote:
>> From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
>> Date: Tuesday, July 15, 1997 5:25 PM
>
>> What can you do with the BBB?
>
>Well, if you put it on someone's chest before smashing them with a baseball
>bat, it won't leave marks... ;)
If you're really damned smart, you can read it, and there's like, stuff in
there. I never figured out what it all was, though.. I just look at the
pretty pictures :)
-Aj
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 14:27:46 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Fluffy?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Gurth wrote:
> As has been said lots of time before (hi there, Stefan! :) Listserv
> doesn't override reply-to headers. So anyone who finds he/she's getting
> personal replies that look like they should have gone to the list would do
> good to check if their mailers aren't inserting reply-to fields into the
> message. I myself, for instance, have intentionally left that field blank
> in my mailer to avoid these sorts of things.
I did the same right after I sent the message...That I think is the crux
of the problem.
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:44:23 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: [OT] Fish & Chips (Was Re: Hacking)
In-Reply-To: <199707151958.VAA12087@**********.xs4all.nl>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 22:00 7/15/97 +0100, you wrote:
>Adam J said on 7:20/15 Jul 97...
>
>> Mmm...Fish and Chips... mmmmm..
>>
>> *More assorted drooling noises*
>
>Have you ever tried to actually eat British chips? Bleurgh...
Of course I have, ya twit :) My parents are british, you know :)
I like the fish better..but the chips are still good :)
-Aj
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:57:27 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] Fish & Chips (Was Re: Hacking)
In-Reply-To: <199707151958.VAA12087@**********.xs4all.nl> from "Gurth" at
Jul
15, 97 10:00:15 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|Adam J said on 7:20/15 Jul 97...
|
|> Mmm...Fish and Chips... mmmmm..
|>
|> *More assorted drooling noises*
|
|Have you ever tried to actually eat British chips? Bleurgh...
Where did you go Gurth?
If it was anywhere south of Birmingham, I'll add a Bleugh as well.....
(Them southerners don't know how to make chips....)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 23:00:10 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: FAQ Stuff (Was Re: Back to spoiler spaces)
In-Reply-To: <199707151958.VAA12108@**********.xs4all.nl> from "Gurth" at
Jul
15, 97 10:00:15 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|Spike said on 15:28/15 Jul 97...
|
|> Back in the early days, or dark ages, when Listproc was still running, the
|> FAQ was sent as part of the subscription procedure.
|>
|> All new listmembers automatically received it, the moment they subscribed.
|
|I wouldn't say that too fast if I were you... IIRC, JD once told me he got
|notified by the old Listserv (the Hearn one) of who subscribed, and he had
|a script send them the FAQ. It wasn't Listserv itself doing that, so I
|have a feeling Listproc didn't do it automatically either.
Well.... I subscribed to shadowrn the first time in '95 and about a minute
after I hit send, it came rolling on through. All three parts.
(Same for shadowtk)
I unsubbed and re-subbed later, and it did the same thing.
(Obviously, he'd been tinkering a bit between moving from Hearn and to
Itribe...... Hearn predates me by a year or two I think.....)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 16:05:41 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: FAQ Stuff (Was Re: Back to spoiler spaces)
In-Reply-To: <1538.199707152200@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 23:00 7/15/97 +0100, you wrote:
>|I wouldn't say that too fast if I were you... IIRC, JD once told me he got
>|notified by the old Listserv (the Hearn one) of who subscribed, and he had
>|a script send them the FAQ. It wasn't Listserv itself doing that, so I
>|have a feeling Listproc didn't do it automatically either.
>
>Well.... I subscribed to shadowrn the first time in '95 and about a minute
>after I hit send, it came rolling on through. All three parts.
>(Same for shadowtk)
I think JD used Procmail on his shell account, and when a message came
across that said bob@*****.com has subscribed to ShadowRN, it just parsed
the email addy and threw it the FAQ's.
-Aj
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 23:03:52 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: A New Thread for Gurth
In-Reply-To: <199707152125.PAA05641@******> from "David Buehrer" at Jul
15,
97 03:25:09 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|What can you do with the BBB?
Well... You forgot propping up that wobbly table.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 16:07:53 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Paper (Was Re: Hacking)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970715095650.007ca970@***.iquest.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:56 7/15/97 -0500, you wrote:
>At 08:54 AM 7/15/97 -0600, Adam J wrote:
>#And they will need a Very secure matrix system to distribute these from, to
>#prevent hacking attempts.
>
>Well, I have the perfect solution for an IMPENETRABLE computer system for
>these books.
>
>Just don't connect the machine these are stored on to any kind of network.
>It is feasible that new releases arrive once a week on some sort of chip,
>and are downloaded to the core of the system from that chip.
Am I missing something here? How does it get out to the buyers, then?
>#My take on the book chips is a basic optical chip with the book burned into
>#it, but no file system, and the book itself can't be loaded onto any normal
>#computer, to prevent basic means of piracy. The chip would have to be
>#copied completely to pirate it.
>
>how is the book read from the chip if there's no file system?
Magic, of course.
What I meant was, there is no readable/writeable filesystem to anything but
the specified reader. Gurth brought up the point of an emulator, and its
certainly a valid point, and would be likely to happen.
I'm brain fried.. later folks.
-Aj
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:09:02 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mike.paff@*****.COM
Subject: Re: A New Thread for Gurth
|What can you do with the BBB?
The hardcover version is good for waking up the munchkin in the
group when he falls asleep during the RP heavy portions of the
game.
"Fritz...Oh Fritz...Wake up!!! <WHAP>" :)
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 17:21:27 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Grill <frech@***.COM>
Subject: Re: A New Thread for Gurth
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
David Buehrer wrote:
> <snip>
>
> Did you know how versatile the BBB is? You can roll it up and make a
> telescope out of it, or a voice projection tube... <snip>
>
> What can you do with the BBB?
>
Roll it up, and it makes a good club fur use against unruly muchkin
players... works as a fly swatter, but the Shadowrun companion works
much better (smaller an more aerodynamic). In addition, If you open it
up, you can tear all those little things out and use as really pretty
wallpaper. :)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Frech a.k.a. Grill the elfin shaman-who-still-has-yet-to-be-greeted-
by-the-celebrity-ork-greeting-meatbot. :)
http://www.realtime.net/~frech/
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 17:20:04 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Paper (Was Re: Hacking)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970715160753.006f841c@****.lis.ab.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 04:07 PM 7/15/97 -0600, you wrote:
#At 09:56 7/15/97 -0500, you wrote:
#>At 08:54 AM 7/15/97 -0600, Adam J wrote:
#>#And they will need a Very secure matrix system to distribute these from, to
#>#prevent hacking attempts.
#>
#>Well, I have the perfect solution for an IMPENETRABLE computer system for
#>these books.
#>
#>Just don't connect the machine these are stored on to any kind of network.
#>It is feasible that new releases arrive once a week on some sort of chip,
#>and are downloaded to the core of the system from that chip.
#
#Am I missing something here? How does it get out to the buyers, then?
they buy it from a store, and download it there
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:15:25 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: A New Thread for Gurth
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Grill wrote:
>
> David Buehrer wrote:
> > <snip>
> >
> > Did you know how versatile the BBB is? You can roll it up and make a
> > telescope out of it, or a voice projection tube... <snip>
> >
> > What can you do with the BBB?
I actually like to rip out the pages and use them to wrap my fish and
chips [especially carp], do guys think that's dangerous? </worried
voice>
Caric-the-thinkin'-the-mantis-shaman-in-the-grimmy-is-HOT!!!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 00:13:05 +0200
Reply-To: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.net>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Whatever happend to the photos? [OT]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:45:33 -0500, Michael Broadwater wrote:
>At 02:27 AM 7/14/97 -0400, Steven A. Tinner wrote:
>>The greenish skin tone comes natural to Bull, so that shouldn't be a
>>problem ... ;-)
>
>I know you used a smiley and all, but since I fig. you're joking about
>Bull, I thought this needed mentioning: orks are green.
Of course they are. Everyone who ever played WarCraft should know ...
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:40:48 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Spell types (was Re: Centering vs Penalties)
In a message dated 97-07-14 06:31:23 EDT, gurth@******.NL (Gurth) writes:
> protects against that...
>
> Furthermore, I don't see what the big fuss is about -- there is no
> difference to the resistance if an area-effect combat spell is aimed at a
> person or a meter beside him/her.
Actually, there is a BIG difference. If it is at the person/spot next to
someone else, then two damage ranges are dealt with. First one is the person
the spell is actually ground into, s/he/it has no armor bonuses, because it
is his/her/its aura that is being ground into. The second area is the "blast
zone" of the combat spell. Think of it like a dam being opened. The hole
where the water is going through is directly affected by the power, while the
surrounding region is caught in the "secondary wash". Thus, the question of
armor counting for those caught in the blast versus those that are the target
point of the blast.
Area of Effect spells of the physical nature do not necessarily ground into
each target differently, though I realize that is likely the most frequently
played variation. BUT, the option I am giving suddenly re-establishes the
options of elemental effects such as Fire and Blast and what differences they
make in Combat Magic. In Manipulation Magic, the differences are more
obvious.
>
> > "Ground" is a target 3 or 4 in the book, sidewalk is a bit
> > higher...etcetera. That could stage up the damage really, bloodily,
fast.
>
> Would you mind running that by me again? I have no clue what you're
> talking about...
See the above...
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:44:29 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Living material links
In a message dated 97-07-14 06:32:14 EDT, you write:
> > Actually, it's the second strongest link in the game mechanics. The
first
> is
> > the Mother's Connectivity (she carried him longer, more "aura
brushoff"
as
> it
> > were.
>
> But that's not going to help if a bunch of magicians want to get to the
> kid's _father_...
>
>
Utilizing material links via genetics sources (blood links) are strongest via
familial ties. Mother is First, Father is Second. Siblings third, with
cousins and uncles/aunt's following fourth. Say, a +8 for the first stage
(mom), +4 for the second stage (dad), +2 for the third (siblings) and +1 at
the fouth. There really wouldn't be anything beyond that level, unless
inbreeding has occurred, and then the chances of Ritual Misfiring are
increased by 200% to 300%.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:55:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Potential Spoiler:Re: Living material links
In a message dated 97-07-14 10:55:01 EDT, vanyel@*******.NET (Justin Pinnow)
writes:
>
> I am of the mind to think that because the child is a living being with
his
> own aura, that he cannot be used as a material link to anyone. Otherwise,
> by shaking someone's hand, that person can be used as a sympathetic link
to
> you...ick. I believe that the TNs for sympathetic link are pretty high,
> and should stay that way...and I don't think it should be made any easier
> than necessary to get a link to someone with ritual sorcery.
>
s
p
o
i
l
e
r
s
p
a
c
e
s
i
n
s
e
r
t
e
d
There is a section in Harlequin's Back concerning Ritual Links and children
(won't mention the chapter), but it should be enough of a suggestion to
answer your question.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:55:31 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: I'd like to know ...
In a message dated 97-07-14 11:41:36 EDT, fro@***.AB.CA (Adam J) writes:
>
> Alternate falling rules in one of the Plastic Warrior books (See Gurths
> sig). Its in either Project3 or Paranoid Animals..
> I just got access to a laser printer, weee!!! :)
>
>
That's wonderful Adam (looking at the laser printer on the other computer
over my shoulder)...
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:56:50 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Area of Effect Spells and Astral Targeting
In a message dated 97-07-14 12:30:43 EDT, NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU
(Bruce H. Nagel) writes:
> > Could you point out a passage where this is stated? As I recall, you're
> > never required to see the target, just his/her/its aura, to synch with
> > it.
> Actually, it states that you cannot target someone by seeing a bit of
their
> aura around a corner, for instance.
>
>
Actually, that section you are referring to says you can in the grimoire, my
question is, which one? Grim 1 or Grim 2?
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:59:47 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Area of Effect Spells and Astral Targeting
In a message dated 97-07-14 12:30:43 EDT, NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU
(Bruce H. Nagel) writes:
>
> > Are you kidding? The magic rules are probably the most ambiguous and
> > indistinct set of rules in the entire game, hence all the discussion on
> > them:)
> No, I'm not kidding. Even being informed that assensing can be used to
> target
> otherwise invisible opponents can make sense to me. What is so confusing?
> I
> think people get confused with this system when they start bringing their
> own
> assumptions to it, or draw conclusions out too far. Certainly a few
points
> (grounding, though once I read the sections and understood it, I don't
have
> a
> problem making rulings on this myself) confuse people but for the most
part
> it's clear.
>
I have to agree with losthalo here. The magic system is fairly well written,
compared to many, NOT all, other systems (since I don't know all the systems
out there, I'm leaving room for chance here ;). The reason for the debating
I think is just people in general and the power involved.
We are dealing with an abstract ability that is very hard to define in a
"layman's terminology". It's not that many people are stupid...it's that
many people are power hungry...
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 00:04:33 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Spell types (was Re: Centering vs Penalties)
In-Reply-To: <970715184016_75168963@*******.mail.aol.com> from "J. Keith
Henry" at Jul 15, 97 06:40:48 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|Actually, there is a BIG difference. If it is at the person/spot next to
|someone else, then two damage ranges are dealt with. First one is the person
|the spell is actually ground into, s/he/it has no armor bonuses, because it
|is his/her/its aura that is being ground into. The second area is the "blast
|zone" of the combat spell. Think of it like a dam being opened. The hole
|where the water is going through is directly affected by the power, while the
|surrounding region is caught in the "secondary wash". Thus, the question of
|armor counting for those caught in the blast versus those that are the target
|point of the blast.
That os NOT how it works. We've been through this before.
Even our resident unofficial Shadowrun Guru says it works in the following
way, so why don't you just drop it, and admit that it's a house rule!
Noone gets armour versus ANY combat spell, be it area effect, Mana or
Physical.
The spell affects EVERYONE in the area at the same time.
You roll your dice, and compare those dice with EACH INDIVIDUAL TARGET.
The spell does NOT ground out though one individual, and then affect
everyone else based on the number of successes that got through.
If that were the case, all the munchkins would have a field day.
<example>
Munchi: I'll lob this apple at them!
GM: Why?
Munchi: Well, then I can cast a fireball at the apple, and everyone'll get
scorched!
</example>
|Area of Effect spells of the physical nature do not necessarily ground into
|each target differently, though I realize that is likely the most frequently
|played variation. BUT, the option I am giving suddenly re-establishes the
|options of elemental effects such as Fire and Blast and what differences they
|make in Combat Magic.
It fixes one broken rule and breaks another one even more, I'm afraid.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:05:31 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Hello
Comments: To: caric@********.com
In a message dated 97-07-14 16:37:18 EDT, caric@********.com (Caric) writes:
>
> -Caric
>
> "That'll be $3.57 at the next window...thank you drive through."
>
BOOO!!! HISSS!! <<<BANG!!!>>>
(hate those looking-down-on-the-world-types)...
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:12:06 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Orgasm Spell - Should they,
or shouldn't they [Was Mysticism...]
In a message dated 97-07-14 17:43:43 EDT, Victor-Fisher@******.COM writes:
> In my game world, Mental Probing without the recipient's prior
> consent IS classified as Rape, and while dificult to authenticate, is
> prosecuted as such [a note to all you mentalist mages out there :-].
Unless you are in the Sioux Nation, and then, well the act of discovery is
the act of violence you describe...
> But, like I said, I can understand those who aren't as offended by
> mental picking about, as they are by artifically induced emotions. It's
> all depends on your point of view.
>
Very, Very, True...
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:22:42 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Demon Magick [New Topic for the Day!]
In a message dated 97-07-14 18:53:52 EDT, schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU (Court
Schuett) writes:
s
p
o
i
l
e
r
s
p
a
c
e
s
i
n
s
e
r
t
e
d
Actually, the group here just ended a 4 game streak in a quest to hunt down
Ubyr (big bad and ugly in the Horrors book). Took them from one end of the
Illinois River to the other twice.
In the end, three cells from Winternight got involved (the big worm sort of
fit their "Ragnarok" image). The first one from Chicago-Cell clashed with
the group just east of Ottawa (after losing the Ottawa bridge and 17
bystanders), while another group (St. Louis Cell) actually made contact with
gruesome slug and got it onto a train and headed in southward.
Party had to negotiate with Conrail, CSX, Central Corridor Management,
Illinois National Guard, a Black Lodge town (find Meredosia on the map), the
Illinois State Police (who had been marked by Ubyr, who was working with a
Wraith at the time) and a few to many Toxic Spirits and Hellhounds for their
liking.
Big fight happened 500 meters just shy of the Mississippi River before the
bridge heading southward into St. Louis over the peninsular lead. Ballista
Launchers, Sentry System Lynx drones, Sleepwalker Samurai, Blood
Kites/Hellhounds under Pack Mentality spells, and Ubyr itself (boy that was a
fight).
They got, pulled a HOG-like maneuver with the Grade 11 Troll Phys Ad's
Threaded Blade (ED/SR crossover stuff). They loved it, even if the mages and
the mundanes took turns being unconscious half the time (Heal Spells vs. Stim
Patches).
That give you some ideas?
-Keith
> If anybody else has any really good ideas about what to do to them,
> please share. :)
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:25:51 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Demon Magick [New Topic for the Day!]
In a message dated 97-07-14 20:55:05 EDT, Victor-Fisher@******.COM (Fisher,
Victor) writes:
> As to what types of things attracts Horrors [or as they're known in
> Shadowrun, The ENEMY], I'd say suffering, pain, any violent emotion.
> Hate, anger.
Like being's similar to the Corpselight and Nomad?
> This is for those that feed on this sort of hting.
> Others are attracted by life, pure and simple. They thrive on the
> destruction of life, consumption of the life force.
Like the Wraith's?
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 00:36:18 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Demon Magick [New Topic for the Day!]
In-Reply-To: <970715192520_1421336038@*******.mail.aol.com> from "J. Keith
Henry" at Jul 15, 97 07:25:51 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|Like the Wraith's?
I believe the Wraith has been hinted at being a minor horror by Laughing man
in one of the books...
PAoE I think... ('Cos I haven't got that.... )
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:44:34 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Event Horizon
In a message dated 97-07-15 12:26:29 EDT, wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU (William
Monroe Ashe) writes:
>
> In the Secrets of Power books Sam uses the GGD to "speed up time" to
> cause the radioactive components to decay down to harmless non
> radioactive elements.
>
Yes, but that process only worked for those places that Sam's teams' were
sent to and/or aware of. Still doesn't answer the question...
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:49:20 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Karma and mails
Comments: To: barbie@**********.com
In a message dated 97-07-15 15:02:54 EDT, barbie@**********.com (Barbie)
writes:
>
> Wow, two days of not reading mails and I`m strucked with
> 1.3 MB in my inbox thats realy impressive.
>
> BTW : I have crossed the 500 Karmapoints yesterday.
>
>
Very deep congratulations. that is the sign of a character with lots of work
and awesome flavor.
I have a character with over 3600 gaming hours. And no, I won't go into the
Karmic rep of that, can't convert from his time as 1st ed to his time as 2nd
ed. So I gave him the "Edge" of "At Ease" when the companion came
out. Not
a bad exchange for the level 5 enemy.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 17:02:45 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Skye Comstock <bilbo@****.NWLINK.COM>
Subject: Re: Paper (Was Re: Hacking)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970715172004.007ad240@***.iquest.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>#>Just don't connect the machine these are stored on to any kind of network.
>#>It is feasible that new releases arrive once a week on some sort of chip,
>#>and are downloaded to the core of the system from that chip.
>#
>#Am I missing something here? How does it get out to the buyers, then?
>
>they buy it from a store, and download it there
So, they'd take the little tablet or whatever to the store, pop it
into the machine and it'd be zapped into the memory of the
tablet, right? Seems like most people, even today, are too lazy
to drag a tablet all the way to the book store... I'm too lazy
to even get there. :]
But... Bringing up another point, how does one preview the book?
A store full of kiosks doesn't sound very appealing to me... Oh
well, lets just hope that trees and paper-like-products last
forever and by the time I die, I won't have to care. ;)
-Skye
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 17:04:17 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: Hello
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Ereskanti@***.com wrote:
> >
> > -Caric
> >
> > "That'll be $3.57 at the next window...thank you drive through."
> >
> BOOO!!! HISSS!! <<<BANG!!!>>>
>
> (hate those looking-down-on-the-world-types)...
> -Keith
Hey I was a McManager for five years so if I tell you to pull to the
next window you better do it gosh darnit!!!!
:)
Caric McShaman
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:30:06 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@***.NET>
Subject: FASA Being Sold?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Has anyone heard that FASA is being sold? I have a source that says yes.
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas |Email:sinbad@***.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
-----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 17:14:02 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: Spell types (was Re: Centering vs Penalties)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Spike wrote:
<snip>
> That os NOT how it works. We've been through this before.
> Even our resident unofficial Shadowrun Guru says it works in the following
> way, so why don't you just drop it, and admit that it's a house rule!
>
> Noone gets armour versus ANY combat spell, be it area effect, Mana or
> Physical.
>
> The spell affects EVERYONE in the area at the same time.
I do believe that it has to be targeted at one person and whether or not
the spell effects them determines if it effects others. (wait for my
explaination bellow before you shout your disagreement)
> You roll your dice, and compare those dice with EACH INDIVIDUAL TARGET.
Yes you do, but ONLY if the original target was effected. The main
target takes no damage then the spell does no tground through them and
hit the other. No armor would help to resist, because the spell is
still going off on the astral.
> The spell does NOT ground out though one individual, and then affect
> everyone else based on the number of successes that got through.
It does ground through one individual, but it does not matter by how
many successes (as long as there is one net. If the spell gamages the
target then the numbers originally rolled are compared to the rest of
the people in the area of effect.
> If that were the case, all the munchkins would have a field day.
Agreed, but the idea that you just pick a point in space makes the LOS
requirement silly to me. If you can just make the spell come out of mid
air and go off, why does it matter if you can see them or not? Thew
spell would still go off.
> |Area of Effect spells of the physical nature do not necessarily ground into
> |each target differently, though I realize that is likely the most frequently
> |played variation. BUT, the option I am giving suddenly re-establishes the
> |options of elemental effects such as Fire and Blast and what differences they
> |make in Combat Magic.
The spellcaster will have to compare success with all individuals, but
the spell still has to successfully hit the main target for that to
happen.
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:41:59 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Black Death <ddmaster@**.NET>
Subject: Re: A New Thread for Gurth
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<snip>
> What can you do with the BBB?
Roll it up and beat the dog with it. (JK)
Roll it up and beat rule mongers with or players that don't answer "It's
your action. What are you gonna do?"
Glue all the pages together and cut the center out for a picture frame.
Glue all the pages together except for the first 20 or so cut the center
out of the middle and have a secret place to hold any thing that fits.
(i.e.: a small pistol)
> -David
> http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
Heaven or Hell it does not matter for I am the soul taker and you are
next on my list.
Black Death
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:48:24 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Black Death <ddmaster@**.NET>
Subject: The Female Mantis Shaman (Was New Thread For Gurth)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Caric-the-thinkin'-the-mantis-shaman-in-the-grimmy-is-HOT!!!
Huba- Huba <sound> wolf whistle.wav </sound>
--
Heaven or Hell it does not matter for I am the soul taker and you are
next on my list.
Black Death
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 17:20:41 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sam Thomas wrote:
>
> Has anyone heard that FASA is being sold? I have a source that says yes.
Bull?????
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 16:56:19 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: Re: A New Thread for Gurth
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Some fool wrote:
> > > What can you do with the BBB?
I leave mine on the floor, and the cats use them to feel superior to the
carpet. They also keep the shelf and desk from getting lonely. (And they
are great for keeping the cats distracted when I want some peace and
quiet. (Now I just have to figure out how to Bob to stop using the rules
to Combat's detriment...)
--
Dvixen Code-word : Weevil-chuck. dvixen@********.com
"I'd rather have a face people fear." - Ivanova - Babylon 5
First High Priest of the Church of the Squooshy Ball.
Been there, done that, got the tshirt, wore it out. Now what do I wear?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 20:51:01 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
On Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:30:06 -0500 Sam Thomas <sinbad@***.NET> writes:
>Has anyone heard that FASA is being sold? I have a source that says
>yes.
To whom? Why? When? Who's your source? Where do they get their
information? Are you even on the list?????
Unless FASA tells they're considering selling out (which I don't see
happening, btw), I'd discount that as nothing but a rumor. Especially
because it's not the first time such a thing has been bandied about the
net.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 20:15:32 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Dan Coffin <b1gator@********.COM>
Subject: Audi?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:41 PM 7/14/97 -0400, you wrote:
> I'm audi.
>
>Kohl
>
The car manufacturer?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:19:36 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: A New Thread for Gurth
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:15 PM 7/15/97 -0700, Caric wrote these timeless words:
>I actually like to rip out the pages and use them to wrap my fish and
>chips [especially carp], do guys think that's dangerous? </worried
>voice>
>
Nope, perfectly safe... Enjoy!:]
>Caric-the-thinkin'-the-mantis-shaman-in-the-grimmy-is-HOT!!!
>
Well, i asked Johnny about it. he said she's a good lay, but afterwards
all she wants to do is eat...
<g>
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:19:41 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 05:20 PM 7/15/97 -0700, Caric wrote these timeless words:
>Sam Thomas wrote:
>>
>> Has anyone heard that FASA is being sold? I have a source that says yes.
>
>Bull?????
>
Hey, don't look at me... i've heard one or two rumours about this, but
since the whole thing with TSR went down, I've heard that White Wolf, Steve
Jackson Games, and Games Workshop were all being bought and/or sold. And
usually the person they're supposedly getting sold to is WOTC.
I don;t think FASA will get sold. It's on of the few fairly stable
companies in the business... But you never know...
<shrug>
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:27:25 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
In a message dated 97-07-15 21:21:12 EDT, lobo1@****.COM (John E Pederson)
writes:
> On Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:30:06 -0500 Sam Thomas <sinbad@***.NET> writes:
> >Has anyone heard that FASA is being sold? I have a source that says
> >yes.
>
>
> To whom? Why? When? Who's your source? Where do they get their
> information? Are you even on the list?????
>
> Unless FASA tells they're considering selling out (which I don't see
> happening, btw), I'd discount that as nothing but a rumor. Especially
> because it's not the first time such a thing has been bandied about the
> net.
>
I am guessing you are probably hearing some of the ripple rumors that went
around when TSR got bought by WotC.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:24:38 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: [OT] Audi?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:15 PM 7/15/97 -0500, Dan Coffin wrote these timeless words:
>At 07:41 PM 7/14/97 -0400, you wrote:
>> I'm audi.
>>
>>Kohl
>>
>
>The car manufacturer?
>
Actually... That's sort of a joke, I think...
It's a semi-common phriase on IRC or MUD's and MUSHes to say "I'm Outtie"
when they're leaving... Outtie and Audi are pronounced the same way..
Then again... he could REALLY be a car... <shrug>
Bull
P.S. Please add the Off topic tag [OT] in the header on a post like
this... makes some of the die hards happy and let's the filters do their
job easier,...:]
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:37:52 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: A New Thread for Gurth
On Tue, 15 Jul 1997 16:56:19 -0700 Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM> writes:
>Some fool wrote:
>> > > What can you do with the BBB?
It makes a great, albeit expensive, chew toy for your playful new puppy.
[ Warning: this may not be a suitable use if the copy you use doesn't
belong to you, as you may be forced to obtain a new one for the real
owner... this is especially difficult if the copy in question was
HARDBACK. ]
~Tim (whose friend is still trying to replace another friend's BBB)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 02:21:45 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Back to spoiler spaces, but don;t even *THINK*
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970715035433.2c2f0f6a@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <3.0.16.19970715035433.2c2f0f6a@*****.com>, Bull
<chaos@*****.COM> rambled on endlessly about Back to spoiler spaces, but
don;t even *THINK*
>At 01:42 AM 7/15/97 +0100, Avenger wrote these timeless words:
>
>>occured a while back. Several of my players subscribed to this list last
>>year, someone decided to post a comment to the list starting with
>>something like...
>>
>[SNIP example of Dunky Spoiler]
>
>It was indeed B5 related, and basically, they gave away the season finale.
>That alone woud have pissed me off, had I not seen the episode...
I'm glad I missed the beginning of this thread then, because I've not
seen that episode yet... :)
>Something similar HAS happened to me on another list, and one of the
>reason's I encourage the Spoiler Spaces. I was on the Raymond Feist
>mailing list (He writes a series of Excellent Riftwar novels.
Yes I'm familiar with them, very good indeed. :)
>Also, if anyone ever DIDN'T put in spoiler spaces when Tinner starts
>tossing ideas at you guys for his campaign, I'd guarantee a flame from me,
>as well as from him, because I LIKE to be surprised...
Although I hate surprises, I like to be surprised. now figure that out
if you can :)
>(Though I do peek
>at my christmas presents early...:))
tsk, tsk... :) Naughty boy. That's it, you're off my Christmas list.
:)
>>Not if he can help it. Bull is surprisingly reserved a lot of the time,
>>but don't make the mistake of thinking him civilised. He is an Ork
>>after all...
>>
>><Ducks into shelter - again> :)
>>
>Ook ook, Petey... Ook ook :]
<grin> No Bull... Ork, not Chimp. :)
--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 02:28:31 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] Fish & Chips (Was Re: Hacking)
In-Reply-To: <1531.199707152157@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <1531.199707152157@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>, Spike
<u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK> rambled on endlessly about [OT] Fish &
Chips (Was Re: Hacking)
>|Adam J said on 7:20/15 Jul 97...
>|
>|> Mmm...Fish and Chips... mmmmm..
>|>
>|> *More assorted drooling noises*
>|
>|Have you ever tried to actually eat British chips? Bleurgh...
They're not all bad Gurth, My chips are as they should be, crispy on the
outside, and fluffy inside, with no puddles of grease to drown in :)
>Where did you go Gurth?
>If it was anywhere south of Birmingham, I'll add a Bleugh as well.....
>
>(Them southerners don't know how to make chips....)
As a devout southerner, I am afraid that I am going to have to agree.
The best chips in England are made in the north. There's a lovely
chippy in Leeds, that makes nice crispy thick potato chips, and they're
actually edible, rather than swimming in a huge pool of grease. :)
--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 02:37:42 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Bull's kids are dead (Was - Re: Living material links)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970715035722.2c2f254c@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <3.0.16.19970715035722.2c2f254c@*****.com>, Bull
<chaos@*****.COM> rambled on endlessly about Bull's kids are dead (Was -
Re: Living material links)
>>>Man what's with everybody and Bulls stinky foul Ork babies?
>>>Here I thought I had done the world a favor by letting the Juggernaut eat
>>>them ...
>>
>>Oh puhleeease!
>>
>>Steve, please tell me you are going to obliterate that slimy little
>>Billy - and Reba really _should_ be taken off to be a bug queen. I
>>tried so hard to get them obliterated, they're simply toooooo sugar
>>sweet and sickly to be left to poison this planet... especially that
>>Billy. I mean the next time they start eating the furniture, couldn't
>>Bull have bought it from a second hand merchant who extracted it from a
>>toxic swamp or something equally as nice. :)
>>
>><hiding in a deep hole now that Bull's babies have been threatened>
>>
><<The big Ork starts strapping on heavy armor, and grabs his trusty Panther
>assault cannon and a pocketful of grenades...:)>>
Erm, shouldn't that actually be, upright vacuum cleaner and tins of
diced pineapple? <g>
>You *COULDN'T* leave the family alone, could you??
Nope. :) Sorry, I just had to have a go. :)
><<Ready!>>
I was born ready....
><<AIM!>>
Errr, Bull, that barrel is supposed to be hollow, isn't it? And what is
that ticking noise coming from your underwear?
--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:21:36 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Area of Effect Spells and Astral Targeting
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:59:47 -0400"
<970715185847_1014523986@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
You wrote:
> I have to agree with losthalo here. The magic system is fairly well written,
> compared to many, NOT all, other systems (since I don't know all the systems
> out there, I'm leaving room for chance here ;). The reason for the debating
> I think is just people in general and the power involved.
> We are dealing with an abstract ability that is very hard to define in a
> "layman's terminology". It's not that many people are stupid...it's that
> many people are power hungry...
And part of the problem is simply that people want official rulings rather than
a decision they make on their own. Personally, I see some small holes in SR
magic theory, but I either find ways to explain them (can you Ground a spell
through a Quickened spell? No, it's designed to only channel specific energies
and is not a part of the 'target' in the same way as a spell lock or other
foci is, no true physical component, no usable bridge - note: just for example).
GMs really need to get their feel for the sustem and use that to decide
ambiguous situations, rather than clamoring for an official FASA ruling in
black and white. Why does it matter so much that there is no official position
on Grounding? Because people are stupid enough to blather on in huge arguments
over it that go nowhere? That's not FASA's responsibility, frankly.
As for players seeking loopholes for power, if you think those loopholes should
work, let them exploit them, then inform them that since they were obvious
(let's face it, thousands of mages, _some_one else has realized the potential
of spell locks and Increase Attribute +4...). Game mechanics loopholes or
tricks should not make PCs powerful, either eliminate them or make the
available to all. :)
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 20:16:37 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Spell types (was Re: Centering vs Penalties)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---"J. Keith Henry" wrote:
>
> A Manaball, or any Area of Effect Combat Magic, does NOT ground into
all the
> auras that are within the potential area of effect. It only grounds
into a
> single target, then blossoms inversely (outward in) into
manifestation
> afterwards. Thus, if you hit the guy with a Body of 4 with a
Powerball, gain
> 6 successes, and there are three targets with higher body in that
area, they
> they are resisting the spell based upon the 6 successes, and not
upon their
> own attributes.
>
> At least that is how it's been interpreted by the people
here...(shrug).
That's not the way I interpret the rule. Seems pretty B&W to me.
BBB, page 130:
"To make a Spell Success Test for an area-effect spell, roll the dice
only once, then compare the results of that roll against the varying
target numbers for each of the valid targets within the area of
effect. The caster's successes are counted seperately for each target
within the radius effect of the spell."
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 20:22:24 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Skye Comstock <bilbo@****.NWLINK.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970715193006.007ce830@***.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Has anyone heard that FASA is being sold? I have a source that says yes.
Dammit, didn't you already post this on rgf.cyber? Are you just trying
to strike up stupid conversation or what? Your post is a single
line, gives no proof, just silly speculation. Who cares?
-Skye
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 23:51:11 -0400
Reply-To: shergold@***********.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Shergold <shergold@***********.NET>
Subject: Re: Event Horizon
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Jaymz wrote:
<snipped stuff 'bout someone asking 'bout nuclear bombs and such>
> spoiler space, just in case - chicago
spoiler space for _Burning Bright_
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> what about the one that went off in chicago?
If I remember correctly with _Burning Bright_ that whoever was in charge of
the operation in Chicago said not to worry about the bomb going off.
However none (or very little) of the radiation got through the Bug Queen's
ward.
SilverFire
(See everyone plenty of spoiler space 8*)
"I merely chewed in self-defense."
-Draco the Dragon
"Dragonheart"
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:25:01 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Re: The End of Mana Cycles
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
>magic goes in cycles like a
> sine wave (where the peaks and troughs get respectively higher and
> deeper over time), and the peaks represent high magic periods......
One thing I would like to point out..It isn't a true sine wave..More
like..Oh.. a rectangular, triangular, or perhaps even a sawtooth wave
with a variable period..refering to it as a sine wave often gives the
wrong impression...
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:25:00 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Re: Hello
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> Hey I was a McManager for five years so if I tell you to pull to the
> next window you better do it gosh darnit!!!!
> Caric McShaman
ROFLOL...
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 00:37:32 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: A New Thread for Gurth
In a message dated 97-07-15 22:52:41 EDT, caric@********.COM (Caric) writes:
> Grill wrote:
> >
> > David Buehrer wrote:
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > Did you know how versatile the BBB is? You can roll it up and make a
> > > telescope out of it, or a voice projection tube... <snip>
> > >
> > > What can you do with the BBB?
>
> I actually like to rip out the pages and use them to wrap my fish and
> chips [especially carp], do guys think that's dangerous? </worried
> voice>
No No No, if you're going to use it in colorful and versatile fashion, at
least keep it in the Genre...
tear out the sections you don't like and give -that- copy to your new
players. GM censorship at its finest!!!
-Keith
( who won't mention what happened one day when they ran out of TP in the Quad
at Purdue)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 00:43:39 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Demon Magick [New Topic for the Day!]
In a message dated 97-07-16 00:12:17 EDT, u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK (Spike)
writes:
>
> I believe the Wraith has been hinted at being a minor horror by Laughing
man
> in one of the books...
>
> PAoE I think... ('Cos I haven't got that.... )
>
>
Yeah, and the Gargoyle as well, IIRC.
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 00:45:57 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Bull's kids are dead (Was - Re: Living material links)
In a message dated 97-07-16 00:01:33 EDT, Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK
(Avenger) writes:
>
> ><<AIM!>>
>
> Errr, Bull, that barrel is supposed to be hollow, isn't it? And what is
> that ticking noise coming from your underwear?
>
>
It's the sound of something far worse waiting to 'explode'
-Keith (who's ducking for cover)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 23:58:03 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970715193006.007ce830@***.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
are you the same guy that posted the exact same text to rec.games.frp.cyber?
At 07:30 PM 7/15/97 -0500, you wrote:
#Has anyone heard that FASA is being sold? I have a source that says yes.
#
#-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
#(c)1997 Sam Thomas |Email:sinbad@***.net|
#Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon
#Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
#-----------------------------------------------------
#
#
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:19:05 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Whatever happend to the photos?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---GRANITE wrote:
>
> > We got some nice B&W shots that IMO looked VERY SR!
> > Maybe I'll borrow Vern's scanner and scan that in so you all can
check it
> > out ...
>
> I would love to see what you scan...
<AOL>
Me too...
</AOL>
You can send them private email if you'd rather. Address in the SIG.
:o)
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 00:23:09 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:27 PM 7/7/97 -0700, you wrote:
>| But not a damage resistance test like victims of DMs get due to the fact
>| that their damage has to be staged all the way down, the victim of a Combat
>| spell gets his Willpower or Body and that is all. If combat spells were
>| made as powerful as this change would make them, nobody in their right mind
>| would take a DM. All that the opponent gets to resist with is his willpower
>| or (natural) body, which will be considerably lower than his potential die
>| pool for a damage resistance test combined with the use of some armor.
>I don't dispute that, but the higher target number that the combat spell
>will need (generally) will help to make up for it by having fewer
>successes...also if the drain is increased to the full force that makes
>casting those high yield spells very costly for the extra power.
Here's the problem, not every Shadowrun campaign has every player and every
opponent with maximum Willpower and maximum Body. Whereas your characters
may always face such opposition, mine do not. My characters and the
characters of those I game with don't have maxxed Willpower or Body as a
matter of course. I appreciate that aspect of them a great deal as it is
realistic and allows for flexibility in the game.
For the benefit of those realistic non-powergamer, non-munchkin types like
myself, Steve, please do not include the staggering increase to damage that
this rule change would bring.
>I would
>limit elemental effects to only the DM's and so there will still be a
>need/want for them. Spells like clout will always be great because of the
>high yield for low force.
Why care about an elemental effect when you can melt a guy without breaking
a sweat? Besides with Force Drain, DM's will cause more drain than combat
spells just like they do now.
Also, any Stun Spell is better than Clout: no impact armor to mess with, no
range modifiers, less drain...
>Yes the target number will be the same, but the caster won't be able to
>afford to cast those high damage spells nearly as much. Even manabolt
>would do as much damage to you as your target, and you would have to split
>up your pool. I don't even want to get into spells like hellblast.
But here's the part you've missed... they won't have to cast the spell more
than once. It'll kill first-time, all-the-time. So what if you take a
miniscule stun wound? You can sleep it off while the opposition goes into
rigormortis. A killing Manabolt *might* cause a light Stun wound to a
below-average caster. Hellblast will hopefully be gone from the combat
spell section in 3rd edition...
>| Shielding always helps, but it wouldn't help near enough. It does plenty
>| normally, why shouldn't it do so in this situation?
>I don't think shielding should get any better, maybe i'm thinking
>incorrectly here, but for combat spells the shielding adds to the target
>number and the targets resistance dice...when a DM is cast the shielding
>doesn't add to the TN, but the target does get the extra dice to resist.
>At least that's how we use it in our game.
Never said that it should be better. I said that it acts as it's always
acted, it's just that it becomes absolutely necessary if combat spells are
modified as suggested whereas it isn't a necessity as the rules are now.
>| If every person everywhere had a 6 Willpower and someone throwing some
>| Shielding dice their way 24 hours a day, then I could see this
>| modification
>| to the rules being somewhat plausible. The average person in SR has a 3
>| Willpower and doesn't know anyone with magical ability let alone someone
>| who's willing to shield him constantly...
>If you were running against average people it wouldn't matter what you did
>to the magic system you would destroy them every time. If you want to talk
>about mages fighting only non-mages it's still not going to be any more
>deadly because the mage cannot cast as many spells before he is messed up.
>If there is an opposing mage then things get really nasty.
See above... not everyone plays a god-level "Monty Haul" campaign. Also, as
mentioned before, you wouldn't need to cast the spell more than once...
>| >DM's will have lower target numbers, but the opponent gets some
>| >or all of there impact armor.
>| And a full damage resistance test as opposed to a handful of dice from
>| Willpower or Body. Remember that a force 4 (mediocre) spell was cast
>| against a *max* human willpower target and still caused damage without
>| trouble. Drain was handled easily. The target got no damage resistance
>| test just a spell resistance test. Imagine what this would do to anyone
>| without a 6 willpower (90% or more of SR)?
>And as they do so then that's all the fewer combat pool dice they get when
>your buddy shoots them. That was also for a manamissile and the target
>only took a light wound.
And the mage took no drain and the mana missile was cast at a mediocre force
by a mediocre mage at a *max* Willpower target. I'd like to hope that the
best human Willpower out there could withstand a mediocre magical assault...
>| >The drain would be high enough that it would even out.
>| Nowhere near. As it was clearly presented in Steve's example, the drain
>| was handled easily and the target (with max human Willpower) of a mediocre
>| spell was injured.
>We are talking about the drain on a manamissile so yes it was handled
>easily...if the spell had been a manabolt the drain would have been
>light...do you think that the casting magician should take a wound equal to
>the one he deals out? I think that a light drain to deliver a moderate
>wound is not overbalanced.
And the damage would've been Moderate instead of Light to the target. I do
think that the casting magician should indeed take a wound equal to what he
deals out if the target possesses the pinnacle of the target stat.
Truthfully, he should probably take more damage. It should be very
difficult to harm a max Willpower target.
>| >The higher target numbers on combat spells would limit there
>| >effectiveness in comparison to DM's.
>| Higher TN's? The average Willpower in SR is three (maybe 2, but I'll
>| give it the benefit of the doubt). This is less than the 4 TN of a damaging
>| manipulation. Average Body? Same. Still lower, nice and easy to cast
>| on. There is no downside to the enhanced power that this would give Combat
>| Spells. The drain increase is inconsequential, the target numbers better
>| on average than DMs, and the damage unavoidable in almost every case.
>Again we as shadowrunners are not fighting average people and you can't
>argue that. It would be just as easy to just shoot them if you are
>fighting pedestrians. How many runner have body and willpower attributes
>lower than four?
Quite a few and all of them would be killed easily by a mediocre spell cast
by a mediocre mage under the proposed combat spell rules. Remember, not all
of us play "Monty Haul". Some of us like at least a little realism in our
games. If I wanted to play my own little Harlequin, I could, but I hate
that type of gaming and don't respect it or those that would advance it.
> Not many...and if they do then they usually have another
>way of defending themselves or have the lower attributes as a role-playing
>device and should expect combat to be extremely dangerous to them
>regardless.
An average stat is a roleplaying device? If so then anything not average is
a powergaming device. Neither statement is correct for reasons I won't go
into now. An average spell cast by an average mage should have an average
result on the average person. That sounds balanced to me and I'm sure to
many others as well. As the system is now, it emulates this nearly to
perfection. If it were changed, magic would run rampant through any and all
opposition.
From a powergamer perspective, I'd love this. I could kill anything easily.
Yay! From any other perspective, it's munchkin crap (going beyond the rules
to achieve a self-beneficial result at minimal cost).
>| A force 3 manabolt cast at an average person would kill every time
>| (barring some UGLY die rolling) and drain would be resisted easily. I
call >| that unbalancing.
>A force three manbolt cast at a normal person would do kill everytime as it
>is now, and drain would be resisted easily. I fail to see the difference.
The guy would at least have a chance at resisting it under current methods.
He'd have no chance under the proposed system, none at all.
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 01:28:28 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: A New Thread for Gurth
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Stuff it in your shirt and you've got makeshift body armor.
Stuff it in your shirt, and you've got a shoplifting charge! ;-)
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"Dammit Peggy! That durn Arcology is blockin' my cable reception again! If
I can't watch the game I'm gonna go down there with my shotgun and kick
somebody's ass!" - Hank Hill, 2058
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 01:33:40 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Orgasm Spell - Should they,or shouldn't they [Was
Mysticism...]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I think you're all mssing one valid point.
Any mage that would go to the trouble of researching and designing such a
spell is not likely to get outside where he could use it much.
Odds are he'd be at home on the floor, passed out from ... "drain." ;-)
Sorry ... I just had to!
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"Dammit Peggy! That durn Arcology is blockin' my cable reception again! If
I can't watch the game I'm gonna go down there with my shotgun and kick
somebody's ass!" - Hank Hill, 2058
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 00:35:16 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Karma and Attributes
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:17 AM 7/10/97 EST, Brett wrote:
>> Keep in mind what the attribute levels represent. A 6 is the biggest
>> buffest human known...racial max. Arnie may be a 6, but he may be
>> closer to 5.
>I would disagree with this. 6 represents the Maximum Average, ( if
>that makes sense). 1.5 times racial max is the buffest ever....max
>is a REASONABLE buffest. anything above Racial Max is bloody rare,
>and Racial Max is rare, but NOT buffest. I'd say about 25% of the
>people going to top universities have the equivilant of INT 6. And
>they aren't necessarily the most intelligent ever....just on the
>highest end of reasonable.
Actually 1.5 times racial max is an *optional* maximum. See pgs. 42-43, 46,
and 190 in SRII for the exact canonical wording. Disagree if you like but
the words are there for the seeing. I, personally, don't allow players to
naturally exceed racial max in the campaigns that I GM as an anti-powergamer
measure.
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 01:36:00 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Peter David Boddy <pdboddy@****.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Re: Orgasm Spell - Should they,or shouldn't they [Was
In-Reply-To: <199707160527.BAA00508@***.ncweb.com>; from "Steven A.
Tinner" at
Jul 16, 97 1:33 am
Steven A. Tinner writes:
>
> I think you're all mssing one valid point.
> Any mage that would go to the trouble of researching and designing such a
> spell is not likely to get outside where he could use it much.
> Odds are he'd be at home on the floor, passed out from ... "drain." ;-)
> Sorry ... I just had to!
Hehehehehe, imagine the money your mage could make...if he could pick
himself up outta his "drain" stupor... =).
Pete aka Spitfire
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter David Boddy
Carleton University
Email address: pdboddy@****.carleton.ca
Email address: bx955@*******.carleton.ca
----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 01:41:05 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Peter David Boddy <pdboddy@****.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Karma and Attributes
In-Reply-To: <199707160535.AAA14003@*******.fgi.net>; from "TopCat" at
Jul 16,
97 12:35 am
TopCat writes:
> >I would disagree with this. 6 represents the Maximum Average, ( if
> >that makes sense). 1.5 times racial max is the buffest ever....max
> >is a REASONABLE buffest. anything above Racial Max is bloody rare,
> >and Racial Max is rare, but NOT buffest. I'd say about 25% of the
> >people going to top universities have the equivilant of INT 6. And
> >they aren't necessarily the most intelligent ever....just on the
> >highest end of reasonable.
>
> Actually 1.5 times racial max is an *optional* maximum. See pgs. 42-43, 46,
> and 190 in SRII for the exact canonical wording. Disagree if you like but
> the words are there for the seeing. I, personally, don't allow players to
> naturally exceed racial max in the campaigns that I GM as an anti-powergamer
> measure.
The way I see it, 6 is the maximum for a normal human (with the various
differences max for the metas). Anything above that is either
cyberware/bioware, or a freak of nature (I mean this in a nice way, =) ).
BTW, what would Einstein's (sp?) intelligence be? For physics, I'd call
him a god, for tying his shoes, well, he was a little on the slow side,
from what I have heard said about him...
Pete
Pete aka Spitfire
Test your might...
at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/8920/index.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter David Boddy
Carleton University
Email address: pdboddy@****.carleton.ca
Email address: bx955@*******.carleton.ca
----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 01:44:06 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
OK, I have to confess, the header is a little misleading.
I'm not gonna kill Bull ... unless he deserves it.
The whole notion that sparked this thread was my remembering the little
trick DC comics did with the death of Robin a few years back.
For those who don't remember, they put Robin at a cliffhanger ending, and
gave the readers a phone number to call and vote whether or not Robin
should die.
The Boy Wonder lost by like a few dozen votes IIRC, and so they dusted his
skinny-no-pants-wearing buttocks!
I'd like to try something similar with Bull.
NO, we're not voting on if he should die or not! I'm pretty sure I know how
that would turn out!
(Feel free to post your opinion on that if you like!)
What I'd really like to see is your suggestions for what else I can to do
torture the Ork Decker.
I mean I've beat on him with bugs.
I've bedeviled him with bandersnatch.
I've yanked him around with Yakuza.
What else does he deserve?
I'm curious as to your opinions, so please don't be shy, post them!
There is NOTHING so odd that I won't consider it!
Just remember, I might use some of these, so be sure to use some spoiler
spaces!!!
I'm looking forward to what sort of evil this list can truly come up with.
Oh yeah, don't bother suggesting that I glue his ass cheeks together, cause
I already did that! ;-)
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"Dammit Peggy! That durn Arcology is blockin' my cable reception again! If
I can't watch the game I'm gonna go down there with my shotgun and kick
somebody's ass!" - Hank Hill, 2058
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 02:07:48 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: A New Thread for Gurth
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
>The hardcover version is good for waking up the munchkin in the
>group when he falls asleep during the RP heavy portions of the
>game.
>
> "Fritz...Oh Fritz...Wake up!!! <WHAP>" :)
>
>Mike
>
Don't forget to soak in gasoline before. So you can light it first, then
toss it at him. ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
In their final year, all Game Master students are required to take one semester
of Manical Laughter.
Spoof of the Far Side.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 02:16:46 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
spoiler
>What I'd really like to see is your suggestions for what else I can to do
>torture the Ork Decker.
>I mean I've beat on him with bugs.
>I've bedeviled him with bandersnatch.
>I've yanked him around with Yakuza.
>
>What else does he deserve?
>I'm curious as to your opinions, so please don't be shy, post them!
>There is NOTHING so odd that I won't consider it!
How about making him a dwarf?
Or giving him a offer he can't refuse while playing the Godfather sountrack.
Turn him into a woman.
Give him amnesia.
Have him wake up and find his whole life was a VR simulation.
Give him a job with the MiB's.
How that for starters.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
In their final year, all Game Master students are required to take one semester
of Manical Laughter.
Spoof of the Far Side.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 02:41:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> spoiler
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> How about making him a dwarf?
By chopping off his legs? OK!
> Or giving him a offer he can't refuse while playing the Godfather
sountrack.
Done it.
> Turn him into a woman.
Done it.
> Give him amnesia.
Done it.
> Have him wake up and find his whole life was a VR simulation.
Done this several times. It's starting to piss him off IRL!
> Give him a job with the MiB's.
But what do the MiB do in SR?
After all that whole Mars thing was a huge hoax.
He's already hung out with some of the DiP's (Lone Star Division of
Paranormal Investigations.)
Good ideas! More!
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"Dammit Peggy! That durn Arcology is blockin' my cable reception again! If
I can't watch the game I'm gonna go down there with my shotgun and kick
somebody's ass!" - Hank Hill, 2058
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:28:26 -0500
Reply-To: Barbie <barbie@**********.com>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Centering vs Penalties (was Re: [SR3] Spell Rituals)
In-Reply-To: <970713122453_26807890@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 13-Jul-97 wrote J. Keith Henry:
>And yeah, I've seen it done. We've got a player here who got into cybertech
>as a player, went about developing spells like "Analyze DNA" and
"Formulate
>Blood Type" for detection spells, based off the "Analyze Object" and
>"Catalog" spells.
I have similar players, sometimes we need a enceclodedia(looks horrible wrong)
to understand what the others tries to tell us.
--
Barbie, still trying to catch up with my mail GAU
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:28:39 -0500
Reply-To: Barbie <barbie@**********.com>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Bull's kids are dead (Was - Re: Living material links)
In-Reply-To: <199707140249.WAA10604@***.ncweb.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 13-Jul-97 wrote Steven A. Tinner:
>> Oooooohohohooo.... You are being an evil GM....
>> Not one of Bulls kids though.... Pretty please?
>Man what's with everybody and Bulls stinky foul Ork babies?
>Here I thought I had done the world a favor by letting the Juggernaut eat
>them ...
Babies from characters are cool they make live a real challenge
and killing them can lead to some very upset characters.
I know that I would go in frenzy mode instant.
--
Barbie, still trying to catch up with my mail GAU
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:29:38 -0500
Reply-To: Barbie <barbie@**********.com>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: A New Thread for Gurth
In-Reply-To: <199707152125.PAA05641@******>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 15-Jul-97 wrote David Buehrer:
>Did you know how versatile the BBB is? You can roll it up and make a
>telescope out of it, or a voice projection tube.
I have a hardcover so rolling will be a little hard :)
>Or you can open it half
>way, put it on your head, and you've got a hat! Take it off your head and
>flap it up and down (still half open) and make cawing noises and you've got
>a bird. It makes a nice placemat. A well-worn copy can be used as a
>doormat. Run it through a paper shredder and you've got confetti (note,
>this only works once).
ROTFLOL
You can try it more than once but after sometime you got dust.
>Stuff it in your shirt and you've got makeshift
>body armor.
>What can you do with the BBB?
Slap it agains my head to get rid of silly ideas.
But its most usefull as a frisbie with a little duketape of course.
Burn it in a cold night and go buying another one to make fasa happy.
Put it under your monitor.
--
Barbie, I did it finaly
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:28:50 -0500
Reply-To: Barbie <barbie@**********.com>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Event Horizon
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970715111729.16209A-100000@******.tamu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 15-Jul-97 wrote William Monroe Ashe:
>In the Secrets of Power books Sam uses the GGD to "speed up time" to
>cause the radioactive components to decay down to harmless non
>radioactive elements.
And the target nukes had needed a special powder thrown on them
so all other nukes are fine.
--
Barbie, still trying to catch up with my mail GAU
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:29:11 -0500
Reply-To: Barbie <barbie@**********.com>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] 84 Charlie MoPic
In-Reply-To: <199707151958.VAA12153@**********.xs4all.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 15-Jul-97 wrote Gurth:
>> >From the Internet Movie Database (us.imdb.com/uk.imdb.com):
>>
>> Plot Summary for
>> 84 Charlie Mopic (1989)
>[snip]
>> 7.8/10 (35 votes)
>I'll have to check this out... if it's some kind of on-line voting thing,
>they can expect another one from me.
Yes you can online vote, write summarys, comments and so on.
The best place to inform you about a movie since nearly all data
is from submissions.
--
Barbie, still trying to catch up with my mail GAU
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:39:26 -0500
Reply-To: barbie@**********.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject: mails twice
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 01:59:58 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970715211634.2d9f6fca@*****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 21:19 7/15/97 -0400, you wrote:
>At 05:20 PM 7/15/97 -0700, Caric wrote these timeless words:
>>Sam Thomas wrote:
>>>
>>> Has anyone heard that FASA is being sold? I have a source that says yes.
>>
>>Bull?????
>>
>Hey, don't look at me... i've heard one or two rumours about this, but
>since the whole thing with TSR went down, I've heard that White Wolf, Steve
>Jackson Games, and Games Workshop were all being bought and/or sold. And
>usually the person they're supposedly getting sold to is WOTC.
>
>I don;t think FASA will get sold. It's on of the few fairly stable
>companies in the business... But you never know...
Rumours of this have been floating for awhile; the obvious buyer is WoTC.
I don't believe the sale will go down, but anything could happen. Jill
Lucas was in Washington a couple months ago talking to WotC, from what I
could gather on rec.games.frp.industry. (Which should be fairly legit, but
its the net, so take with lump of salt.)
And since I've never heard of Sam Thomas, either on this list, or on any
other net.forum, or a webpage, etc, etc, I would say its a great big troll.
-Aj
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:55:23 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: [OT] Fish & Chips (Was Re: Hacking)
In-Reply-To: <1531.199707152157@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Spike said on 22:57/15 Jul 97...
> Where did you go Gurth?
> If it was anywhere south of Birmingham, I'll add a Bleugh as well.....
>
> (Them southerners don't know how to make chips....)
Newcastle, which AFAIK isn't really south of Birmingham.
I don't want to stereotype, but the place to go if you want really good
chips is Belgium...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:55:23 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: FAQ Stuff
In-Reply-To: <1538.199707152200@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Spike said on 23:00/15 Jul 97...
> Well.... I subscribed to shadowrn the first time in '95 and about a minute
> after I hit send, it came rolling on through. All three parts.
> (Same for shadowtk)
>
> I unsubbed and re-subbed later, and it did the same thing.
At any rate it went better than it does now (hint, hint :)
> (Obviously, he'd been tinkering a bit between moving from Hearn and to
> Itribe...... Hearn predates me by a year or two I think.....)
We moved to ITribe at the end of October '95, so it can't be more than
about 2 months between your subscription and the move from Hearn...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:55:23 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Spell types (was Re: Centering vs Penalties)
In-Reply-To: <1660.199707152304@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Spike said on 0:04/16 Jul 97...
> That os NOT how it works. We've been through this before.
> Even our resident unofficial Shadowrun Guru says it works in the following
> way
Might I point out that that doesn't mean anything...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:55:23 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
In-Reply-To: <199707160616.CAA21848@******.san.uc.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
NightLife said on 2:16/16 Jul 97...
> spoiler
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Have him wake up and find his whole life was a VR simulation.
Can you say "despair squid"? :)
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:55:23 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Fluffy?
In-Reply-To: <33CBEB52.331C@********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Caric said on 14:27/15 Jul 97...
[removing reply to fields]
> I did the same right after I sent the message...That I think is the crux
> of the problem.
It is, and yes, now you've fixed it. On the whole it's a good idea when
you write a message to glance at the To: address, and change it to the
list's if necessary.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:55:23 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Spell types (was Re: Centering vs Penalties)
In-Reply-To: <33CC124A.6F96@********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Caric said on 17:14/15 Jul 97...
> I do believe that it has to be targeted at one person and whether or not
> the spell effects them determines if it effects others. (wait for my
> explaination bellow before you shout your disagreement)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Is that a very LOUD explanation? :)
> It does ground through one individual, but it does not matter by how
> many successes (as long as there is one net. If the spell gamages the
> target then the numbers originally rolled are compared to the rest of
> the people in the area of effect.
That's not what SRII says. It doesn't make mention of "If the original
target is affected, compare the roll to ..." It just says to check every
valid target.
> Agreed, but the idea that you just pick a point in space makes the LOS
> requirement silly to me. If you can just make the spell come out of mid
> air and go off, why does it matter if you can see them or not? Thew
> spell would still go off.
If you can't see them, they won't be hit even if you roll a hundred
successes. The exception here are manipulation spells, but since they
travel toward the target through the physical AND astral planes, they
wouldn't be subject to your "grounding out" idea anyway, I think.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:55:23 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: [OT] Fish & Chips (Was Re: Hacking)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970715154423.006d6bbc@****.lis.ab.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Adam J said on 15:44/15 Jul 97...
> >Have you ever tried to actually eat British chips? Bleurgh...
>
> Of course I have, ya twit :) My parents are british, you know :)
> I like the fish better..but the chips are still good :)
You must get _really_ bad chips in Canada, then :)
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:55:23 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Spell types (was Re: Centering vs Penalties)
In-Reply-To: <970715184016_75168963@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
J. Keith Henry said on 18:40/15 Jul 97...
> > Furthermore, I don't see what the big fuss is about -- there is no
> > difference to the resistance if an area-effect combat spell is aimed at a
> > person or a meter beside him/her.
>
> Actually, there is a BIG difference. If it is at the person/spot next to
> someone else, then two damage ranges are dealt with. First one is the person
> the spell is actually ground into, s/he/it has no armor bonuses, because it
> is his/her/its aura that is being ground into. The second area is the "blast
> zone" of the combat spell. Think of it like a dam being opened. The hole
> where the water is going through is directly affected by the power, while the
> surrounding region is caught in the "secondary wash". Thus, the question
of
> armor counting for those caught in the blast versus those that are the target
> point of the blast.
Good idea, except I've always understood that that doesn't happen to
with spells. They're not grenades that detonate at a certain point and
then move outward; the effects of a spell appear in the whole area at the
same moment.
I just checked SRII (page 130) and the Grimoire (page 111) and
unfortunately neither gives an indication which of the ttwo
interpretations is right. In fact especially the text in the Grimoire is
ambiguous enough to be open to both interpretations :(
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:55:23 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Spell types (was Re: Centering vs Penalties)
In-Reply-To: <19970716031637.7922.rocketmail@*****.rocketmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Loki said on 20:16/15 Jul 97...
> That's not the way I interpret the rule. Seems pretty B&W to me.
>
> BBB, page 130:
>
[snip quote]
Loki, it doesn't help much to just quote a rule without saying something
about how _you_ think it should be explained... That's basically what
this is about -- which interpretation is "right."
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:55:23 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: A New Thread for Gurth [more or less OT]
In-Reply-To: <199707152125.PAA05641@******>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
David Buehrer said on 15:25/15 Jul 97...
> Did you know how versatile the BBB is? You can roll it up and make a
> telescope out of it, or a voice projection tube.
*tries* Nope, doesn't work with the hardcover edition...
> What can you do with the BBB?
Hold it with boths hands and you can use it to smack troublesome players
over the head with!
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:00:12 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Spell types (was Re: Centering vs Penalties)
In-Reply-To: <19970716031637.7922.rocketmail@*****.rocketmail.com> from
"Loki"
at Jul 15, 97 08:16:37 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|BBB, page 130:
|
|"To make a Spell Success Test for an area-effect spell, roll the dice
|only once, then compare the results of that roll against the varying
|target numbers for each of the valid targets within the area of
|effect. The caster's successes are counted seperately for each target
|within the radius effect of the spell."
Thanks Loki.
I rest my case....
(It's been a bit busy lately...)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:21:24 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] Fish & Chips (Was Re: Hacking)
In-Reply-To: <199707160953.LAA27811@**********.xs4all.nl> from "Gurth" at
Jul
16, 97 11:55:23 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|I don't want to stereotype, but the place to go if you want really good
|chips is Belgium...
They don't do the Mayonaise thing there do they???
Bleugh!
Also, chippies in an area can vary in quality wildly.
In one street in Oldham there're 3 chippies.
2 are quite good, but the THIRD????
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:23:25 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: FAQ Stuff
In-Reply-To: <199707160953.LAA27818@**********.xs4all.nl> from "Gurth" at
Jul
16, 97 11:55:23 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|We moved to ITribe at the end of October '95, so it can't be more than
|about 2 months between your subscription and the move from Hearn...
Maybe I joined when all the boxes hadn't been unpacked....
I think it must have been October/November when I joined....
(It took a month or two to find my net legs....)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:24:47 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Spell types (was Re: Centering vs Penalties)
In-Reply-To: <199707160953.LAA27831@**********.xs4all.nl> from "Gurth" at
Jul
16, 97 11:55:23 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|Spike said on 0:04/16 Jul 97...
|
|> That os NOT how it works. We've been through this before.
|> Even our resident unofficial Shadowrun Guru says it works in the following
|> way
|
|Might I point out that that doesn't mean anything...
Oh, come on Gurth....
You *ARE* the unofficial shadowrun guru and all round know-it-all here
y'know....
:)
There's no need to be bashful.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:25:49 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
In-Reply-To: <199707160954.LAA27877@**********.xs4all.nl> from "Gurth" at
Jul
16, 97 11:55:23 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|NightLife said on 2:16/16 Jul 97...
|
|> spoiler
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|> Have him wake up and find his whole life was a VR simulation.
|
|Can you say "despair squid"? :)
The problem is, how many here will get that reference?
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:29:00 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] Fish & Chips (Was Re: Hacking)
In-Reply-To: <199707160953.LAA27795@**********.xs4all.nl> from "Gurth" at
Jul
16, 97 11:55:23 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|Adam J said on 15:44/15 Jul 97...
|
|> >Have you ever tried to actually eat British chips? Bleurgh...
|>
|> Of course I have, ya twit :) My parents are british, you know :)
|> I like the fish better..but the chips are still good :)
|
|You must get _really_ bad chips in Canada, then :)
Nahhh, it's you who got the REALLY bad chips in Newcastle....
As I said, the best chips are in Yorkshire.
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:21:05 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
In-Reply-To: <199707160523.AAA13341@*******.fgi.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 16 Jul 1997, TopCat wrote:
> And the mage took no drain and the mana missile was cast at a mediocre force
> by a mediocre mage at a *max* Willpower target. I'd like to hope that the
> best human Willpower out there could withstand a mediocre magical assault...
<snip a lot of really good points from TC... *gasp* :P>
> Quite a few and all of them would be killed easily by a mediocre spell cast
> by a mediocre mage under the proposed combat spell rules. Remember, not all
> of us play "Monty Haul". Some of us like at least a little realism in our
> games. If I wanted to play my own little Harlequin, I could, but I hate
> that type of gaming and don't respect it or those that would advance it.
Okay, that's where I draw the line. I appreciated and respected a lot of
your comments, TC, and generally agree with them, but this is a bit
much, don't you think? (Funny, there's the exact same debate going on in
r.g.f.dnd right now...)
It's a GAME. Everyone has the right to play the way they like, and a
higher power game than yours should not cause a lack of respect...
rather, respect them for being honest about the way they want to play.
Lady Jestyr
----------------------------------------------------
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota
monax materiam possit materiari?
----------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:26:51 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
In-Reply-To: <1952.199707161025@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> |>
> |>
> |>
> |>
> |>
> |>
> |>
> |>
> |>
> |>
> |>
> |>
> |>
> |>
> |> Have him wake up and find his whole life was a VR simulation.
> |
> |Can you say "despair squid"? :)
>
> The problem is, how many here will get that reference?
Me! ME! Me! <desperately waiting for Season 7... :(>
Lady Jestyr
----------------------------------------------------
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota
monax materiam possit materiari?
----------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:40:20 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970716222613.14604B-100000@*******.dialix.com.au>
from "Lady Jestyr" at Jul 16, 97 10:26:51 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|> |>
|> |>
|> |>
|> |>
|> |>
|> |>
|> |>
|> |>
|> |>
|> |>
|> |>
|> |>
|> |>
|> |>
|> |> Have him wake up and find his whole life was a VR simulation.
|> |
|> |Can you say "despair squid"? :)
|>
|> The problem is, how many here will get that reference?
|
|Me! ME! Me! <desperately waiting for Season 7... :(>
Oh, it's not bad.... It's lost something though.
No-where near as funny as Seasons II - V....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 06:57:46 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
In-Reply-To: <199707160543.XAA18841@******> from "Steven A. Tinner" at
Jul 16,
97 01:44:06 am
Content-Type: text
spoiler for Bull
b
b
b
b
b
b
b
b
b
b
b
b
b
b
b
b
b
b
b
b
Steven A. Tinner wrote:
|
| What I'd really like to see is your suggestions for what else I can to do
| torture the Ork Decker.
Mother-in-law :)
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:09:57 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
In-Reply-To: <199707161257.GAA01577@******>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> spoiler for Bull
>
> b
> b
> b
> b
> b
> b
> b
> b
> b
> b
> b
> b
> b
> b
> b
> b
> b
> b
> b
> b
u
u
u
u
u
u
u
l
l
l
l
l
l
l
l
l
l
> | What I'd really like to see is your suggestions for what else I can to do
> | torture the Ork Decker.
>
> Mother-in-law :)
>
> -David
NO! Too cruel! Too horrible! :)
You know though...this has potential...
Anyway, my suggestions:
Have him be seduced. (Mage w/Control
thoughts/emotions....Mantis??!?!?!?!?)
Make him famous. (This can be a REAL pain in the butt.)
Have him discover that someone has implanted subconcious suggestions
in him....but the stuff he does seems senseless (perhaps he clucks
like a chicken when someone says Matrix)
Here's an idea I've been working on:
I want one of my characters to discover that someone/thing has been
wiping his memory for several hours each night. BUT, I want the
character to realize that he had figured this out before, but each
time he forgets that he found out. The adventure begins when he gets
the clues, and has a hint of what has happened (or rather what he
doesn't know happened). The cahracter then has to:
1) Figure out how to prevent it...knowing that he had tried before
and failed.
2) Figure out who is doing it and why.
Sounds a bit like a bad Star Trek episode crossed with the Twilight
Zone, don't it?
-=SwiftOne=-
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 08:44:26 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970716015958.0076c9c4@****.lis.ab.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 16 Jul 1997, Adam J wrote:
> Rumours of this have been floating for awhile; the obvious buyer is WoTC.
> I don't believe the sale will go down, but anything could happen. Jill
> Lucas was in Washington a couple months ago talking to WotC, from what I
> could gather on rec.games.frp.industry. (Which should be fairly legit, but
> its the net, so take with lump of salt.)
>
> And since I've never heard of Sam Thomas, either on this list, or on any
> other net.forum, or a webpage, etc, etc, I would say its a great big troll.
I have a question about all of this, Is FASA a public or private
company? If they are public, a little rumor goes a long way to
artifically boost stock prices. Afterall they DID write Corporate
Shadowfiles.
regards
Bill
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 08:47:55 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
In-Reply-To: <30D615BED@**.opp.psu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> > spoiler for Bull
> >
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> u
> u
> u
> u
> u
> u
> u
> l
> l
> l
> l
> l
> l
> l
> l
> l
> l
> > | What I'd really like to see is your suggestions for what else I can to do
> > | torture the Ork Decker.
> >
If his kids are old enough, have them start to date. I can see Bull the
protective father sitting on the stoop waiting with a shotgun for his
oldest daugter to come home from a date ... could be good for laughs
-Bill
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 08:53:20 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:25 AM 7/16/97 +0100, Spike wrote:
>|
>|NightLife said on 2:16/16 Jul 97...
>|
>|> spoiler
>|>
>|>
>|>
>|>
>|>
>|>
>|>
>|>
>|>
>|>
>|>
>|>
>|>
>|>
>|> Have him wake up and find his whole life was a VR simulation.
>|
>|Can you say "despair squid"? :)
>
>The problem is, how many here will get that reference?
>
Well, I got it. And I haven't been able to see that much RD. (funniest
damn show on tv, btw. But look what I have to compare it to)
Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/
The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton
Gencon count down: 22 days
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 07:55:26 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970716084259.25907A-100000@******.tamu.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:44 7/16/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>I have a question about all of this, Is FASA a public or private
>company? If they are public, a little rumor goes a long way to
>artifically boost stock prices. Afterall they DID write Corporate
>Shadowfiles.
Privately owned, with I think 3 co-owners.
-Aj
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:00:18 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Fish & Chips (Was Re: Hacking)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:29 AM 7/16/97 +0100, Spike wrote:
>|
>|Adam J said on 15:44/15 Jul 97...
>|
>|> >Have you ever tried to actually eat British chips? Bleurgh...
>|>
>|> Of course I have, ya twit :) My parents are british, you know :)
>|> I like the fish better..but the chips are still good :)
>|
>|You must get _really_ bad chips in Canada, then :)
>
>Nahhh, it's you who got the REALLY bad chips in Newcastle....
>As I said, the best chips are in Yorkshire.
Can we kill this thread? Two reasons:
A). this is hugely off topic, and doesn't seem to be moving even close to
topical.
b). everytime I come into work in the morning and read my mail, you guys
make me starved thinking about fish and chips. And since I live in the US
(and Quincy, IL, which makes it even worse) there's little to no chance
I'll get to have any.
So cut it out. Please.
Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/
The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton
Gencon count down: 22 days
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:04:06 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
Greetings!!!!
I saw this at Mania.com, you decide how valide it is:
>>>>I figured I would move this thread on with a few new rumours for your
consumption.
A certain VP, of a certain Renton based game company was cornered and
cofirmed that WOTC has plans to open 50 stores in N. America over the
next 5 years. (confirmed at the Dractus open house in Ottawa in June)
WOTC has been very chummy with a certain English miniatures wargames
company (look at the Seattle game centre to see which miniatures game
WOTC has been pushing.
WOTC has been chatting with some other companies regarding potential
future acquisitions, the companies in queston are: West End Games
(they would not comment on this in Ottawa, and they certainly wouldn't
deny anything); White Wolf (not much to substantiate yet); and FASA
(Jill Lucas at FASA has confirmed that talks are underway, but would
not disclose the nature of those discussions); There is also rumor
that WOTC may want Ral Partha as well.
WOTC has been negotiating with West Edmonton Mall for room for a game
centre. Apparently GW is settin up a store in West Ed Mall, a bit too
coincidental for my tastes.
Now, if you will let my paranoia run rampant for a moment, I will put
together a scenario I really do not relish.
All the best
Grant Kinsley M.D.
sawbones@********.com
Yes, I do own a store, but I'm not saying which one.
This is not an ad <<<<<<
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:08:41 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:21 PM 7/16/97 +1000, Lady Jestyr wrote:
>It's a GAME. Everyone has the right to play the way they like, and a
>higher power game than yours should not cause a lack of respect...
>rather, respect them for being honest about the way they want to play.
I don't think that TC's arguement is against the way they play, but it's
against rules being dictated to everyone because of the way they play
(Spells should be stronger because they run a game where the opponents are
stronger). Bob is right, an average spell cast by an average caster should
have an average effect on an average person. That keeps it balanced. If
you want your magic to do more, then be a better caster, or change the
balance in a direction you favor. But, if you start out with the system
unbalanced, that requires more effort on more people to change the system
back to a point where it is balanced. And in the mean time, you have
people pimping the rules for all they're worth.
Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/
The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton
Gencon count down: 22 days
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:13:42 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Faux Pas (Thomas)" <thomas@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:09 AM 7/16/97 EST, Brett Borger whispered:
>> spoiler for Bull
>>
>> b
>> b
>> b
>> b
>> b
>> b
>> b
>> b
>> b
>> b
>> b
>> b
>> b
>> b
>> b
>> b
>> b
>> b
>> b
>> b
>u
>u
>u
>u
>u
>u
>u
>l
>l
>l
>l
>l
>l
>l
>l
>l
>l
>
> I want one of my characters to discover that someone/thing has been
>wiping his memory for several hours each night. BUT, I want the
>character to realize that he had figured this out before, but each
>time he forgets that he found out. The adventure begins when he gets
>the clues, and has a hint of what has happened (or rather what he
>doesn't know happened). The cahracter then has to:
>1) Figure out how to prevent it...knowing that he had tried before
>and failed.
>2) Figure out who is doing it and why.
>
>Sounds a bit like a bad Star Trek episode crossed with the Twilight
>Zone, don't it?
Check out "Blank Slate" with Dana Carvey as a detective that has a slight
problem -- he gets amnesia every night. One way he tries to get around it
is each night, before he goes to bed, he records information on a cassette.
Thomas Deeny
Infobahn Austin
512 320 0556
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:21:09 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: The End of Mana Cycles
I have just one extra thought on the subject: the
"almost human" metahumans live out their lives in
an increasingly human world, but as the mana
level drops, the more "fantastic" beings (the ones
we haven't seen yet in SR) instinctively are
drawn to high mana areas, enter a very long
hibernation, or simply die. Dragon lairs are
high-mana areas, by definition BTW.
Imagine if a magical age (the fourth age,
anyone?) ended more suddenly than usual, with
a drastic "snap". The instinctual "you should
merge with your liferock/dig deep into the river
bottom/do whatever windlings do" warning would
come seconds before the fataly low mana
instead of years. The survivors would be very
few indeed.
Double-Domed Mike
Back from his vacation and almost done dealing
with 2000 SRn messages...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:15:36 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@***.NET>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970716015958.0076c9c4@****.lis.ab.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:59 AM 7/16/97 -0600, you wrote:
>At 21:19 7/15/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>At 05:20 PM 7/15/97 -0700, Caric wrote these timeless words:
>>>Sam Thomas wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Has anyone heard that FASA is being sold? I have a source that says yes.
>>>
>>>Bull?????
>>>
>>Hey, don't look at me... i've heard one or two rumours about this, but
>>since the whole thing with TSR went down, I've heard that White Wolf, Steve
>>Jackson Games, and Games Workshop were all being bought and/or sold. And
>>usually the person they're supposedly getting sold to is WOTC.
>>
>>I don;t think FASA will get sold. It's on of the few fairly stable
>>companies in the business... But you never know...
>
>Rumours of this have been floating for awhile; the obvious buyer is WoTC.
>I don't believe the sale will go down, but anything could happen. Jill
>Lucas was in Washington a couple months ago talking to WotC, from what I
>could gather on rec.games.frp.industry. (Which should be fairly legit, but
>its the net, so take with lump of salt.)
>
>And since I've never heard of Sam Thomas, either on this list, or on any
>other net.forum, or a webpage, etc, etc, I would say its a great big troll.
You have not heard of me!!!! Well you don't travel in my circles.<G>
By the way outside this list I have not heard of you.<G>
It is not a troll just an inquiry to see if anyone else has heard any
rumors/tales in way I am trying to confirm my source.
As for my source lets say he/she is freelance "Graphics Illustrator" that
does vast amount of work for one of the principles in the deal.
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas |Email:sinbad@***.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
-----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:19:25 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@***.NET>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
In-Reply-To: <v03007800aff1fcccdefa@[206.129.23.60]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:22 PM 7/15/97 -0800, you wrote:
>>Has anyone heard that FASA is being sold? I have a source that says yes.
>
>Dammit, didn't you already post this on rgf.cyber? Are you just trying
>to strike up stupid conversation or what? Your post is a single
>line, gives no proof, just silly speculation. Who cares?
>
Skye,
Yes I did post to the rec.frp.cyber. Do you have problem with that? The
rest of your comments do not deserve any more words.
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas |Email:sinbad@***.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
-----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 17:24:38 -0500
Reply-To: barbie@**********.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject: mails twice again
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
sorry to all I just had seen that I fumbled with my mailprog.
so question again.
after 15-jjul ca 14.00 I get every mail twice
its that only me, or is that an error on the listserver?
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:18:53 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Your .Sig
In-Reply-To: <199707161506.LAA03051@***.ncweb.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
)> | "Dammit Peggy! That durn Arcology is blockin' my cable reception again!
)If
)> | I can't watch the game I'm gonna go down there with my shotgun and kick
)> | somebody's ass!" - Hank Hill, 2058
)>
)> Just a nitpick, but I don't think Hank would ever use a shotgun. He's
)> pretty good with just his foot.
)>
)> :)
)>
)> Or maybe he'd send Bobby after em with a 5 iron.
)
)Somebody got the joke!
)This actually came up in our last game session!
)I needed a funny passerby for comedy relief (the game was getting too
)serious and off track) and I decided that a Hank Hill/redneck type would
)walk by with his family complaining about trid reception.
)Basically, he lives in the shadow of the Renraku Arcology and at times his
)reception would go out, he blames Renraku, and plans to go "kick somebody's
)ass."
)
)Sure, Hank Hill 1997 would never shoot someone, but in 2058? ;-)
Good point :) And he'd have to drive down there on his lawnmower ;)
-David
--
"ahh, kamisama! watashi no atama ni ono ga arimasu!"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:30:53 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: mails twice again
In-Reply-To: <yam7136.1924.136485760@****.amigaworld.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 17:24 7/16/97 -0500, you wrote:
>sorry to all I just had seen that I fumbled with my mailprog.
>so question again.
>after 15-jjul ca 14.00 I get every mail twice
>its that only me, or is that an error on the listserver?
Everythings fine on my end. My suggestion is to unsubscribe and then
resubscribe, that should hopefully clear it up.
-Aj
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:45:22 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <ltwiss@****.cyberport.net>
From: VÆL <ltwiss@********.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
In-Reply-To: <970716100406_-1325731160@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
If memory serves correctly, M. Sean Martinez wrote:
> WOTC has been chatting with some other companies regarding potential
> future acquisitions, the companies in queston are: West End Games
> (they would not comment on this in Ottawa, and they certainly wouldn't
> deny anything); White Wolf (not much to substantiate yet); and FASA
> (Jill Lucas at FASA has confirmed that talks are underway, but would
> not disclose the nature of those discussions); There is also rumor
> that WOTC may want Ral Partha as well.
Do any of you besides me find this... illegal? WOTC had better calm
down or they are going to have a monopoly inside the roleplaying
industry. If america was _truly_ a free market there would be no
problem here, but we aren't.
I'm all for WOTC bailing out flailing companys (ie: TSR), but I can't
see justification for running around buying everyone up, besides pure
greed and profitablilty. You can argue...'Well they did make them
selves available for purchase', but can't these company's see the
potential problems?
From a marketing stand point, this is good business. The people at
WOTC know business, and are in it to make money, as well as good
product. Because, they have separate passions inside the company.
People that love gaming, and people that like gaming but love
marketing, or accounting, or...
They are on the right track for making gaming and games in general
the next thing to movies. But they are going about it in a very
Microsoft way.
Vael
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 17:43:52 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <pr-MIke@************.Germany.EU.net>
From: Mike Hartmann <hartmann@***********.M.EUNET.DE>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970716084638.25907B-100000@******.tamu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
still a possible spoiler for Bull...
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > u
> > u
> > u
> > u
> > u
> > u
> > u
> > l
> > l
> > l
> > l
> > l
> > l
> > l
> > l
> > l
> > l
> > > | What I'd really like to see is your suggestions for what else I can to do
> > > | torture the Ork Decker.
> > >
> If his kids are old enough, have them start to date. I can see Bull the
> protective father sitting on the stoop waiting with a shotgun for his
> oldest daugter to come home from a date ... could be good for laughs
Or have them run the shadows themselves (again if they are old
enough) with all that complications an overprotective parent can get
into.
One of our GMs had a particulary nasty idea, which brought us into
possession of a truckload full of high-quality cyberware and military
hardware. Since then nothing is like it used to be, everyone (even
my mage, who doesn't care for cyber and weapons) is getting more and
more paranoid about, who might be interested in that stuff (at least
some yakuza boys and some ppl from tir as far as we know), who owns
it (most possibly Ares) and what to do with it. Currently I am opting
for simply sinking the truck in the harbour and forgetting about
it...
bye mike
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:37:56 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970716091341.006acc34@***>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> At 09:09 AM 7/16/97 EST, Brett Borger whispered:
> >> spoiler for Bull
> >>
> >> b
> >> b
> >> b
> >> b
> >> b
> >> b
> >> b
> >> b
> >> b
> >> b
> >> b
> >> b
> >> b
> >> b
> >> b
> >> b
> >> b
> >> b
> >> b
> >> b
> >u
> >u
> >u
> >u
> >u
> >u
> >u
> >l
> >l
> >l
> >l
> >l
> >l
> >l
> >l
> >l
> >l
> >
> >Sounds a bit like a bad Star Trek episode crossed with the Twilight
> >Zone, don't it?
>
> Check out "Blank Slate" with Dana Carvey as a detective that has a
> slight problem -- he gets amnesia every night. One way he tries to
> get around it is each night, before he goes to bed, he records
> information on a cassette.
Oh, I thought about that. Way too simple. The character in my plot
must find out that he had discovered it before....and someone wiped
out all his attempts to warn himself. Tapes disappeared/were
blanked, notes vanished, email deleted, etc. More paranoid that way.
To make it REALLY bad, I plan to imply that the biggest suspect is:
himself! (Shades of Zaphod there)
So the character has to figure out how to fool himself.
Nasty, eh?
-=SwiftOne=-
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:44:34 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
In-Reply-To: <199707161537.JAA09300@*****.cyberport.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> > future acquisitions, the companies in queston are: West End Games
> > (they would not comment on this in Ottawa, and they certainly wouldn't
> > deny anything); White Wolf (not much to substantiate yet); and FASA
> > (Jill Lucas at FASA has confirmed that talks are underway, but would
> > not disclose the nature of those discussions); There is also rumor
> > that WOTC may want Ral Partha as well.
>
> Do any of you besides me find this... illegal? WOTC had better calm
> down or they are going to have a monopoly inside the roleplaying
> industry. If america was _truly_ a free market there would be no
> problem here, but we aren't.
hold on there! Before you get all uptight, take a more skeptical
look at Whats-his-faceys post. As I see it:
1) He is merely poorly informed, with a bit of a paranoid nature
Or
2) He is having a good laugh
I mean, _IF_ all this is true, I can easily see WOTC simply looking
around....now that they have TSR, it's only natural to try and carve
their niche. Talking to people, even everyone, doesn't mean they're
going to BUY them all. I mean, WOTC isn't all _that_ powerful!
Personally, I think WOTC talked to someone...someone else heard it
and mentioned it....a third person twisted it a bit, threw in a
few more companies,.....and PRESTO! You have thousands of gamers
rushing about screaming MONOPOLY!
(And as someone said, Several gaming companies' Stocks soar, which
means they aren't going to comment either way....everyone assumes "No
comment" means that they are right....and the company didn't lie one
little bit.)
Time to Chill, everyone.
-=SwiftOne=-
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 08:48:00 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Skye Comstock <bilbo@****.NWLINK.COM>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
In-Reply-To: <199707160537.BAA00734@***.ncweb.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Orky Bull Spoiler Spaces
Is that enough?
:]
I say, when they get the yacht, you sink it, and have them survive in
an air bubble. The catch is, they'll bang into Atlantis, where all
the cool, Bull-kid-eating Horrors and Water Insects live. :]
Turn him into a purple Wendigo, but leave the toothy grin.
Introduce him to a big Free Woosp Spirit, he'll like that, really.
Have him meet a woman that is really into Cajun food, she's a Toxic
Shaman, of course.
Take all his cool gear and give it to the needy.
Send him to Mongolia or Tibet.
Take his gear, his kids, his friends, and feed him green eggs and ham.
-Skye... muahahah
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:54:53 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
In-Reply-To: <199707161537.JAA09300@*****.cyberport.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:45 7/16/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Do any of you besides me find this... illegal? WOTC had better calm
>down or they are going to have a monopoly inside the roleplaying
>industry. If america was _truly_ a free market there would be no
>problem here, but we aren't.
Unfortunately, RPG's and CCG's aren't big enough to have their own
'market', and so they get thrown in with other board games and I believe
even kids toys. The result, WotC has nothing compared to Mattel and Parker
Brothers.
AFAIK, of course.
-Aj
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:03:09 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Skye Comstock <bilbo@****.NWLINK.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970716101925.008149d0@***.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Skye,
>Yes I did post to the rec.frp.cyber. Do you have problem with that? The
>rest of your comments do not deserve any more words.
A problem? No. I was just wondering how/where you got this information,
I know that seems like a strange thing to ask a person after they
say FASA could be in the process of being sold. Then again, that doesn't
deserve any more words, does it? You are simply a troll that gets his
jollies when people respond to a thread, so I'll stop talking to you,
after all, you're a non-deserver, yourself.
-skye
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 08:51:40 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: A New Thread for Gurth
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Bull wrote:
> >I actually like to rip out the pages and use them to wrap my fish and
> >chips [especially carp], do guys think that's dangerous? </worried
> >voice>
> >
> Nope, perfectly safe... Enjoy!:]
>
> >Caric-the-thinkin'-the-mantis-shaman-in-the-grimmy-is-HOT!!!
> >
> Well, i asked Johnny about it. he said she's a good lay, but afterwards
> all she wants to do is eat...
LOL...Ohhh that was awful!!! Congratulations!!!
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 08:53:30 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: [OT] Audi?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Bull wrote:
>
> At 08:15 PM 7/15/97 -0500, Dan Coffin wrote these timeless words:
> >At 07:41 PM 7/14/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >> I'm audi.
> >>
> >>Kohl
> >>
> >
> >The car manufacturer?
> >
> Actually... That's sort of a joke, I think...
>
> It's a semi-common phriase on IRC or MUD's and MUSHes to say "I'm Outtie"
Bull has an "outtie?" Wow!
.]
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:04:39 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: Area of Effect Spells and Astral Targeting
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Bruce H. Nagel wrote:
<snip>
> And part of the problem is simply that people want official rulings rather than
> a decision they make on their own. Personally, I see some small holes in SR
> magic theory, but I either find ways to explain them (can you Ground a spell
> through a Quickened spell? No, it's designed to only channel specific energies
> and is not a part of the 'target' in the same way as a spell lock or other
> foci is, no true physical component, no usable bridge - note: just for example).
<snip the part about stupid people>
The main reason that alot of us want an official ruling Losthalo is
because (for example) we are going to gencon to play in a SR tournament,
and when we get there we will be using the rules as they stand in the
BBB and such. If we are unclear on th ose rules, and the GM isn't sure
how to play it, because he may play differently normally than the other
two people running games for the tourney, and voila we have a big pain
in the ass trying to figure out what to do. Now we all use house rules,
we have a ton in fact (check out Loki's web page) but what about when we
move to another game we have to adjust these. Most of the time that's
no big deal, but if the rules are all laid out then it alleviates the
need for 900 house rules and trying to figure out what the rules are in
each game you play in. As long as you always play with the same group
then you are correct in saying that it is no big deal, but alot of us
are bringing in new players that played with someone else and switching
around to different games, and especially when we go to things like
gencon, it would be pretty darn handy to know what the rules are going
to be when we got there.
Caric
You are correct
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:30:10 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:15 AM 7/16/97 -0500, Sam Thomas wrote:
>As for my source lets say he/she is freelance "Graphics Illustrator" that
>does vast amount of work for one of the principles in the deal.
I worry about people who use un-named refrences and won't back up their
stories with any facts/proof/evidence. Currently, your source is no better
than a wild hunch. Worse, actually, as someone who was guessing would
admit to it.
Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/
The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton
Gencon count down: 22 days
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 12:35:18 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: A New Thread for Gurth
At 15-Jul-97 wrote David Buehrer:
>What can you do with the BBB?
"Johnny, what can you make of this?"
"Ooo, I can make a brooch, or a hat, or a pterodactyl..."
:)
--
-Canthros (Gotta love that movie:)
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 12:35:18 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
On Wed, 16 Jul 1997 01:44:06 -0400 "Steven A. Tinner"
<bluewizard@*****.COM> writes:
<snip>
>NO, we're not voting on if he should die or not! I'm pretty sure I
>know how
>that would turn out!
Boy, you're no fun:P
>(Feel free to post your opinion on that if you like!)
Oh, in that case, don't kill him - yet:) (joking, only joking)
<<SPOILER_SPACE=TRUE>>
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
Is this enough? A little farther yet:)
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
>What I'd really like to see is your suggestions for what else I can to
>do
>torture the Ork Decker.
>I mean I've beat on him with bugs.
>I've bedeviled him with bandersnatch.
>I've yanked him around with Yakuza.
>
>What else does he deserve?
Have you tried using the Ordo Maximus?
What about Alamos 20K or the Human Nation?
The Black Lodge?
Winternight?
Halberstam's Babies?
Well, I've pretty much exhausted Threats, I think:)
Hmmm...<<SEARCHING=original+ideas>>
<<ITEMS_RETURNED=1>>
Have you thrown him up against a were?
>I'm curious as to your opinions, so please don't be shy, post them!
>There is NOTHING so odd that I won't consider it!
Hmmm...Attack of the Killer Mimes:) An assassin that uses the guise of a
street performer is sent after Bull:):)
>Just remember, I might use some of these, so be sure to use some
>spoiler
>spaces!!!
Done:)
>I'm looking forward to what sort of evil this list can truly come up
>with.
Well, you've got me beat.
>Oh yeah, don't bother suggesting that I glue his ass cheeks together,
>cause
>I already did that! ;-)
Oh, sure. Take all the _good_ ideas:)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:35:28 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Steven A. Tinner wrote:
> What I'd really like to see is your suggestions for what else I can to > do
torture the Ork Decker.
> What else does he deserve?
<two headed giant in MP Holy Grail>
Oh lets be nice to 'im
</two headed giant yadda yadda>
Well okay here's what you do...
> I'm looking forward to what sort of evil this list can truly come up with.
> Oh yeah, don't bother suggesting that I glue his ass cheeks together, cause
> I already did that! ;-)
...oh nevermind...back to the drawing board <sigh>
Caric-the-I-could-never-do-that-to-my-good-friend-Bull-shaman
p.s. I'll send more later Steve shhhh!
and you actually believed that Dog shamans were loyal? Silly rabbit.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:41:11 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
NightLife wrote:
>
> spoiler
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
@
> >What I'd really like to see is your suggestions for what else I can to do
> >torture the Ork Decker.
> >What else does he deserve?
> >I'm curious as to your opinions, so please don't be shy, post them!
> >There is NOTHING so odd that I won't consider it!
>
> How about making him a dwarf?
> Or giving him a offer he can't refuse while playing the Godfather sountrack.
> Turn him into a woman.
> Give him amnesia.
> Have him wake up and find his whole life was a VR simulation.
> Give him a job with the MiB's.
>
> How that for starters.
Not bad, but how about this one. It's slightly evil so bear with me.
Now we have all seen Bull talk about how the magic rules are his week
spot, and i'll assume that Tinner has read the novel i'm gonna refer to.
(I think it was the one with Dirk Montgomery in Hawaii, but I might have
just made that up) Anyway there's this novel where a troll becomes a
bear shaman I believe, and at the end of the book all of his cyberware
gets pushed out of his body. Bull IMHO acts like a dog shaman, make him
one. :)
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:48:26 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: Spell types (was Re: Centering vs Penalties)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Gurth wrote:
>
> Caric said on 17:14/15 Jul 97...
>
> > I do believe that it has to be targeted at one person and whether or not
> > the spell effects them determines if it effects others. (wait for my
> > explaination bellow before you shout your disagreement)
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Is that a very LOUD explanation? :)
<Homer>
Doh!!!!!
</Homer>
:)
> > It does ground through one individual, but it does not matter by how
> > many successes (as long as there is one net. If the spell gamages the
> > target then the numbers originally rolled are compared to the rest of
> > the people in the area of effect.
>
> That's not what SRII says. It doesn't make mention of "If the original
> target is affected, compare the roll to ..." It just says to check every
> valid target.
>
> > Agreed, but the idea that you just pick a point in space makes the LOS
> > requirement silly to me. If you can just make the spell come out of mid
> > air and go off, why does it matter if you can see them or not? Thew
> > spell would still go off.
>
> If you can't see them, they won't be hit even if you roll a hundred
> successes. The exception here are manipulation spells, but since they
> travel toward the target through the physical AND astral planes, they
> wouldn't be subject to your "grounding out" idea anyway, I think.
Correct, the DM's wouldn't work the same way, hmmm i'll have to look
through the grmthingy and BBB again, apparently we've just been doing it
incorrectly (from an official standpoint) ah well. The only way to make
the LOS requirement make any sense is to do the spellcasting test the
way you describe, so I still need to check, but I have a creeping
sensation that you have got it right.
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:58:24 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Faux Pas (Thomas)" <thomas@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:44 AM 7/16/97 -0400, Steven A. Tinner whispered:
>Just remember, I might use some of these, so be sure to use some spoiler
>spaces!!!
okay
b
u
l
l
b
u
l
l
b
u
l
l
b
u
l
l
b
u
l
l
Run the adventure "Ghost Toasties" from the Ghostbusters RPG.
But seriously, have the real Bull show up. Rak's been playing Bull's clone
and the real Bull is pissed.
Thomas Deeny
Infobahn Austin
512 320 0556
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 12:13:13 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@***.NET>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970716113008.009e2a90@****host>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:30 AM 7/16/97 -0500, Michael Broadwater wrote:
>At 10:15 AM 7/16/97 -0500, Sam Thomas wrote:
>
>>As for my source lets say he/she is freelance "Graphics Illustrator"
that
>>does vast amount of work for one of the principles in the deal.
>
>I worry about people who use un-named refrences and won't back up their
>stories with any facts/proof/evidence. Currently, your source is no better
>than a wild hunch. Worse, actually, as someone who was guessing would
>admit to it.
Well sometimes sources ask not to named for reasons of their own, ie might
lose their job/work contract, might compromise a trust, etc. Sources do not
always like to directly quoted.
Right now I am just asking for any rumors/scuttlebutt that any one else
might have heard. Seeing if what I was told cross checks with what others
have "heard".
Lets say that right now the subject is greater than a scuttlebutt but less
than a rumor.<g>
As for the veracity of the rumor/scuttlebutt only time will tell. If their
was some truth to the matter, FASA and others would deny until the deal was
finalized. That is just current business practise not just in the role
playing game industry.
As to why FASA would sell to another, well sometimes people want a change,
sometimes for good, sometimes for bad. That is just conjecture on my part.
>
>Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
>http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
>http://www.blackhand.org/
>
>The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
> when you kill them. -- William Clayton
>
>Gencon count down: 22 days
>
>
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas |Email:sinbad@***.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
-----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:52:30 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: Spell types (was Re: Centering vs Penalties)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Gurth wrote:
> Good idea, except I've always understood that that doesn't happen to
> with spells. They're not grenades that detonate at a certain point and
> then move outward; the effects of a spell appear in the whole area at the
> same moment.
>
> I just checked SRII (page 130) and the Grimoire (page 111) and
> unfortunately neither gives an indication which of the ttwo
> interpretations is right. In fact especially the text in the Grimoire is
> ambiguous enough to be open to both interpretations :(
How did it explain it in first edition? Spike? Loki? I agree that the
rules as stated don't explain it well, but as i said in an earlier
posting, the way that you have been describing it is the only way that
makes sense when you factor in the LOS requirement Gurth. If the spell
hits the target and then explodes out of his aura, then why does it
matter if the magician can see the other targets or not?
Caric-the-trying-to-prove-himself-wrong-shaman
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:03:53 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Audi?
On Wed, 16 Jul 1997 08:53:30 -0700 Caric <caric@********.COM> writes:
>Bull has an "outtie?" Wow!
>
>.]
shouldn't that be...
:] o
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:03:53 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
>Orky Bull Spoiler Spaces
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Anyone remember that tailored neuro-virus that Chase had in the beginning
of Neuromancer? The one that whose damage was subtle enough to cause no
real harm, other than the complete and total inability to deck...
~Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:17:09 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull? -Reply
Spoiler Space
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <snip Amnesia ever night, someone
> intercepting his notes>
>To make it REALLY bad, I plan to imply that the
>biggest suspect is: himself! (Shades of
>Zaphod there)
Please read "The Unpleasant Proffesion of
Jonathan Hoage" by Robert Heinlein. It's my
favorite Heinlein piece. Maybe have the player
read it too, then just HINT you might be using the
same plot...
Double-Domed Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:20:08 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Demon Magic - Spoilers for anyone in a ENEMY type game!!!!!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Coming up...30 lines 'o' Spoilers. If you're not supposed to be looking
at Horror/Enemy type stuff, or if you're involved in the module
Harlequin's Back, Move Along, Move Along.!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!End Spoilers...
I'd say critters like Corpselights and Nomads COULD be considered
precursers to 'true' Horrors, but they'd be EXTREMELY low level ones.
It's been hinted in the Paranormal Animals of Europe, that the
Wraith may be a harbinger of these nasty litle buggers as well.
BUT, keep in mind, the two times (to my knowledge) that actual
stats for THE ENEMY have been displayed, these guys were downright
TERRIFYING!!! And I'm a GM who LOVES to torment and test his players!
The Body for these guys was between 10-14!
Their initiative was something like 10 + 4D6! They got THREE MELEE
attacks per action, as opposed to PCs and NPCs getting only ONE! Their
Threat Rating was something like 7 - 9!
I ran HARLEQUIN'S BACK for my group, and their first encounter
almost left them TOTALLY devestated! [All except for my resident
powergamer, who seems to up the stats on his character everytime I look
away! He actually matched them blow for blow, that is until I took his
'Munchie Armor and Weapons and Cyber and Magic' down a peg. Note to
GM's, it's tough during a campaign to keep track of everything a player
is up to, and I rely on a fair degree of honesty when they state their
intentions, but keep an eye on your powergamers, or they'll come back
and bite you on the butt!].
I don't think the SR World in general is ready for a full on
invasion of The Enemy; not for sometime to come. My players enjoyed the
terrifying level of the opposition, but after losing one character
falling into the Astral Chasm, and another who got just a bit too close
to the critters and had his head bitten off, and the insides sucked out,
they figured to call it a draw after destroying the bridge and go home,
and hide under their pillows, in a well fortified bunker!
I'm Audi! [Beeep Beeep!]
Kohl
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:32:29 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Spaceman <spaced@*.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
In-Reply-To: <199707160537.BAA00734@***.ncweb.com>
>>>>> Steven A Tinner didst say unto the aether thusly:
B
u
l
l
y
o
u
n
a
uu
g
h
t
y
o
r
k
n
o
r
e
a
d
i
n'
!
# What I'd really like to see is your suggestions for what else I can to do
# torture the Ork Decker.
# I mean I've beat on him with bugs.
# I've bedeviled him with bandersnatch.
# I've yanked him around with Yakuza.
Have you flummoxed him with a Fatal Attractionesque femme fatale?
(Sorry, just had to). Say that a lovely schoolmarm comes in to help
tutor the kiddies. Say she gets obsessed easily. Say she falls for Bull. Say
she's a mantis shaman initiate. Make her damn near unkillable, just when bull
thinks he's gotten away from her, her stock phrase (e.g. "you _do_ love me,
don't you?") comes floating in earshot.......
The Spaceman |What's the difference between wisdom
spaced@*.washington.edu |and intelligence? Edith Bunker.
Check out the Bill Page! | - Joel Rosenburg
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~spaced/bill.html
New maintainer of the Shadowrun Player Directory:
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~spaced/srdir/
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:34:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Audi?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >Bull has an "outtie?" Wow!
Actually he has two "innies"
Ask him, it's true!
And my brother has NO navel at all.
TRUTH!
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:36:50 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:03:53 -0400 (EDT)"
<19970716.101047.4807.0.z-i-m@****.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
You wrote:
> >Orky Bull Spoiler Spaces
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Anyone remember that tailored neuro-virus that Chase had in the beginning
> of Neuromancer? The one that whose damage was subtle enough to cause no
> real harm, other than the complete and total inability to deck...
Actually it was a rare toxin, and yeah, that would be mean to do to a decker
(basically wrecked Case's life, anyway). Or just do what they did in the
story, and hold it over his head as a threat for a long time... "Quite an
experience to live in fear, isn't it?"
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:43:44 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >Orky Bull Spoiler Spaces
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Anyone remember that tailored neuro-virus that Chase had in the beginning
> of Neuromancer? The one that whose damage was subtle enough to cause no
> real harm, other than the complete and total inability to deck...
Like it, like it ...
I had toyed with the idea of putting a Brainlock on him as well, ala
Gibson's "Dogfight" protagonist.
Right now, he has a looper in his datajack, and no idea how to get rid of
it.
I might be able to incorporate a lot of thse notions into one plot.
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 11:43:57 +0000
Reply-To: hardware@*******.ab.ca
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <hardware@*******.datanet.ab.ca>
From: Shane Courtrille <hardware@*******.DATANET.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970715193006.007ce830@***.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
I work in a buisness that deals with comics & games and stuff and
word is WOTC has there eyes on FASA.. along with a whole host of
other gaming companys.. but FASA is suppose to be part of there next
meal..
*wave*
Shane Courtrille - hardware@*******.ab.ca
Being in love... What a trip...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 19:44:57 -0500
Reply-To: Barbie <barbie@**********.com>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
In-Reply-To: <199707160537.BAA00734@***.ncweb.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Bull don`t read further !!!!
Spoiler
space
for
Bull
Have you ever seen the Wild Palms movies.
Very twisted story, my all time favoried.
I can highly recommend it for some torturing of a player
should suit Bull realy good because he have it all whats needed
kids, family powerfull connections.
Oh and you need 270 min of UNINTERRUPTED time.
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:35:25 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
TopCat wrote:
> Here's the problem, not every Shadowrun campaign has every player and every
> opponent with maximum Willpower and maximum Body. Whereas your characters
> may always face such opposition, mine do not. My characters and the
> characters of those I game with don't have maxxed Willpower or Body as a
> matter of course. I appreciate that aspect of them a great deal as it is
> realistic and allows for flexibility in the game.
I understand that, and I never said that they all did, but not all of
our magic users have sorcery of six and willpowers or six to resist
drain.
> For the benefit of those realistic non-powergamer, non-munchkin types like
> myself, Steve, please do not include the staggering increase to damage that
> this rule change would bring.
Puhlease...spare us the martyred "i'm the only non-power gamer/munchkin"
rant. We all know that this list by and large is composed of
non-munchkin players.
> >I would
> >limit elemental effects to only the DM's and so there will still be a
> >need/want for them. Spells like clout will always be great because of the
> >high yield for low force.
>
> Why care about an elemental effect when you can melt a guy without breaking
> a sweat? Besides with Force Drain, DM's will cause more drain than combat
> spells just like they do now.
Alot of us non-power gamers look at spells for more than just their
damage potential TC, some people like elemental effects because of the
flavor.
> Also, any Stun Spell is better than Clout: no impact armor to mess with, no
> range modifiers, less drain...
Clout is great because you can get decent damage for a force 1 spell.
Cheap spell point cost.
> >Yes the target number will be the same, but the caster won't be able to
> >afford to cast those high damage spells nearly as much. Even manabolt
> >would do as much damage to you as your target, and you would have to split
> >up your pool. I don't even want to get into spells like hellblast.
>
> But here's the part you've missed... they won't have to cast the spell more
> than once. It'll kill first-time, all-the-time. So what if you take a
> miniscule stun wound? You can sleep it off while the opposition goes into
> rigormortis. A killing Manabolt *might* cause a light Stun wound to a
> below-average caster. Hellblast will hopefully be gone from the combat
> spell section in 3rd edition...
It's not going to kill first time every time, not anymore than it would
now, the number of success to not take a deadly wound would be
identical, and the minimum drain for a spell like hellblast is 7D, far
more then the damage resistance for the target would ever be.
> >| Shielding always helps, but it wouldn't help near enough. It does plenty
> >| normally, why shouldn't it do so in this situation?
>
> >I don't think shielding should get any better, maybe i'm thinking
> >incorrectly here, but for combat spells the shielding adds to the target
> >number and the targets resistance dice...when a DM is cast the shielding
> >doesn't add to the TN, but the target does get the extra dice to resist.
> >At least that's how we use it in our game.
>
> Never said that it should be better. I said that it acts as it's always
> acted, it's just that it becomes absolutely necessary if combat spells are
> modified as suggested whereas it isn't a necessity as the rules are now.
Not any more necessary than before unless your spellcaster's are all
still running around with force 6 spells.
>
> See above... not everyone plays a god-level "Monty Haul" campaign. Also,
as
> mentioned before, you wouldn't need to cast the spell more than once...
heheheh...whatever. See below.
> >| >DM's will have lower target numbers, but the opponent gets some
> >| >or all of there impact armor.
>
> >| And a full damage resistance test as opposed to a handful of dice from
> >| Willpower or Body. Remember that a force 4 (mediocre) spell was cast
> >| against a *max* human willpower target and still caused damage without
> >| trouble. Drain was handled easily. The target got no damage resistance
> >| test just a spell resistance test. Imagine what this would do to anyone
> >| without a 6 willpower (90% or more of SR)?
Okay so where do we draw the line between "god-like" and average. You
say in one breath that having a willpower over three is munchkin, yet a
force four spell is "mediocre." Are you just deciding as you go along,
or is there sound reasoning behind it?
> And the mage took no drain and the mana missile was cast at a mediocre force
> by a mediocre mage at a *max* Willpower target. I'd like to hope that the
> best human Willpower out there could withstand a mediocre magical assault...
Again unless you are in a "god-like" campaign then force four shouldn't
be mediocre.
> >| >The drain would be high enough that it would even out.
>
> >| Nowhere near. As it was clearly presented in Steve's example, the drain
> >| was handled easily and the target (with max human Willpower) of a mediocre
> >| spell was injured.
> >We are talking about the drain on a manamissile so yes it was handled
> >easily...if the spell had been a manabolt the drain would have been
> >light...do you think that the casting magician should take a wound equal to
> >the one he deals out? I think that a light drain to deliver a moderate
> >wound is not overbalanced.
>
> And the damage would've been Moderate instead of Light to the target. I do
> think that the casting magician should indeed take a wound equal to what he
> deals out if the target possesses the pinnacle of the target stat.
> Truthfully, he should probably take more damage. It should be very
> difficult to harm a max Willpower target.
That's not sound as far as game mechanics are concerned. Basically you
are saying that someone who has a willpower of six should knock a few
mages unconscious from drain before he takes serious wounds from spells.
That's absured. Magic is feared because it's deathly powerful, but I
don't see that someone should be able to cast spells with absolutely no
drain. Why should it be necessary for the mage to learn spells at
insane levels to be effective, when any punk with a gun and a firearms
skill of three has a chance to kill you. Why should it be different for
mages.
> >| >The higher target numbers on combat spells would limit there
> >| >effectiveness in comparison to DM's.
>
> >| Higher TN's? The average Willpower in SR is three (maybe 2, but I'll
> >| give it the benefit of the doubt). This is less than the 4 TN of a damaging
> >| manipulation. Average Body? Same. Still lower, nice and easy to cast
> >| on. There is no downside to the enhanced power that this would give Combat
> >| Spells. The drain increase is inconsequential, the target numbers better
> >| on average than DMs, and the damage unavoidable in almost every case.
>
> >Again we as shadowrunners are not fighting average people and you can't
> >argue that. It would be just as easy to just shoot them if you are
> >fighting pedestrians. How many runner have body and willpower attributes
> >lower than four?
>
> Quite a few and all of them would be killed easily by a mediocre spell cast
> by a mediocre mage under the proposed combat spell rules. Remember, not all
> of us play "Monty Haul". Some of us like at least a little realism in our
> games. If I wanted to play my own little Harlequin, I could, but I hate
> that type of gaming and don't respect it or those that would advance it.
Again force four spell=mediocre yet four willpower="god-like?"
> > Not many...and if they do then they usually have another
> >way of defending themselves or have the lower attributes as a role-playing
> >device and should expect combat to be extremely dangerous to them
> >regardless.
>
> An average stat is a roleplaying device? If so then anything not average is
> a powergaming device. Neither statement is correct for reasons I won't go
> into now. An average spell cast by an average mage should have an average
> result on the average person. That sounds balanced to me and I'm sure to
> many others as well. As the system is now, it emulates this nearly to
> perfection. If it were changed, magic would run rampant through any and all
> opposition.
I disagree. An average spell should be the same rating as an average
stat. THe average spell should do it's average damage to the average
person. A force 3 powerbolt should on average do a serious wound to the
average person, and it does that uunder both systems, but under one of
them the caster takes drain and on the other the caster gets away scott
free.
> >From a powergamer perspective, I'd love this. I could kill anything easily.
> Yay! From any other perspective, it's munchkin crap (going beyond the rules
> to achieve a self-beneficial result at minimal cost).
You keep contradicting yourself TC...where is this mythical munchy line
that we have all crossed?
> >| A force 3 manabolt cast at an average person would kill every time
> >| (barring some UGLY die rolling) and drain would be resisted easily. I
> call >| that unbalancing.
>
> >A force three manbolt cast at a normal person would do kill everytime as it
> >is now, and drain would be resisted easily. I fail to see the difference.
>
> The guy would at least have a chance at resisting it under current methods.
> He'd have no chance under the proposed system, none at all.
By resisting it I assume you mean taking absolutely zero damage. Is
this correct? I will assume so because otherwise your above statement
is completely false. Based on that would you expect the average person
to take no damage from a shotgun blast? How is that different from a
spell?
I understand that you seem to think that you are stopping powergaming,
but we are all aware what munchkinism is and how to control it. Drain
is something that can help to curb that under the correct
circumstances.
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:55:11 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> > spoiler for Bull
> >
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> > b
> u
> u
> u
> u
> u
> u
> u
> l
> l
> l
> l
> l
> l
> l
> l
> l
> l
> > | What I'd really like to see is your suggestions for what else I can
to do
> > | torture the Ork Decker.
> >
> > Mother-in-law :)
Nah, they've met, and Marie's parents are a couple of sweet old folks from
Wisconsin. ;-)
> Have him be seduced. (Mage w/Control
> thoughts/emotions....Mantis??!?!?!?!?)
The seduction is a good idea, but he's amazingly loyal, and a mage would
have a hard time working a spell on him with all the charma and defenses
he's got.
The mantis idea would simply NOT work in our game.
Bull's partner Johnny 99 was married to a Mantis, and the team is still on
good terms with the Mantids.
> Make him famous. (This can be a REAL pain in the butt.)
This one I like!
Maybe I could use the old TechTrakTonight mini plot from Sprawl Sites as a
way to get him on the Trid!?
> Have him discover that someone has implanted subconcious suggestions
> in him....but the stuff he does seems senseless (perhaps he clucks
> like a chicken when someone says Matrix)
Unbeknowst to Bull (well, he might know) a raccoon shaman has been sneaking
into their house at night.
He never takes anything important, it's hust to freak Bull out.
Maybe as a prank he does this to Bull?
> I want one of my characters to discover that someone/thing has
been
> wiping his memory for several hours each night. BUT, I want the
> character to realize that he had figured this out before, but each
> time he forgets that he found out. The adventure begins when he gets
> the clues, and has a hint of what has happened (or rather what he
> doesn't know happened). The cahracter then has to:
> 1) Figure out how to prevent it...knowing that he had tried before
> and failed.
> 2) Figure out who is doing it and why.
Read a short story like this once.
The main character is a genius inventor/bioengineer, but only when
intoxicated.
He sets out to invent the worlds most elusive/fastest animal, so he gets
good and drunk.
However when he comes to, he can't find his friend who was with him, and
everytime he tries to get drunk again the alcohol vanishes before his eyes.
After a looong process of discovery we learn that the inventor had
bioengineered his friend into a creature so fast it couldn't be seen with
naked eye.
However this meant that the critter could only metabolize alcohol.
Similar concept here IMO.
I did something to myself, and it was bad, so I hypnotized myself not to do
it again, unfortunately I can't remember, so I keep repeating the process.
Cool.
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:57:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> > > spoiler for Bull
> > >
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > > b
> > u
> > u
> > u
> > u
> > u
> > u
> > u
> > l
> > l
> > l
> > l
> > l
> > l
> > l
> > l
> > l
> > l
> > > | What I'd really like to see is your suggestions for what else I can
to do
> > > | torture the Ork Decker.
> > >
> If his kids are old enough, have them start to date. I can see Bull the
> protective father sitting on the stoop waiting with a shotgun for his
> oldest daugter to come home from a date ... could be good for laughs
Very good idea, but the twins are just barely 6ish.
And Bull already said that Reba can't date until she's 21. ;-)
He does have an older boy named Michael, but Mikeys a bit of a freak,
considering that he's really only like 3, and was forcibly grown larger.
I think it would be a little twisted having Mikey find a girlfriend. ;-P
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:59:15 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Orky Bull Spoiler Spaces
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Is that enough?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> :]
>
> I say, when they get the yacht, you sink it, and have them survive in
> an air bubble. The catch is, they'll bang into Atlantis, where all
> the cool, Bull-kid-eating Horrors and Water Insects live. :]
Nah, they just went to Atlantis last week (seriously) and it was full of
Cthulu style Deep Ones!
> Turn him into a purple Wendigo, but leave the toothy grin.
This has merit, a little HMVV might be in order for Bull!
> Take all his cool gear and give it to the needy.
I've had his van stolen, blown up and destroyed so many times already he
replaces his gear constantly!
> Send him to Mongolia or Tibet.
Mongolia would be good! I can see Genghis Bull sweeping across the steppes
..
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:57:47 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gossamer <kajohnson@*******.TEC.WI.US>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> B
> u
> l
> l
>
> y
> o
> u
> n
> a
> uu
> g
> h
> t
> y
>
> o
> r
> k
>
> n
> o
>
> r
> e
> a
> d
> i
> n'
> !
>
> # What I'd really like to see is your suggestions for what else I can to do
> # torture the Ork Decker.
> # I mean I've beat on him with bugs.
> # I've bedeviled him with bandersnatch.
> # I've yanked him around with Yakuza.
>
> Have you flummoxed him with a Fatal Attractionesque femme fatale?
>
> (Sorry, just had to). Say that a lovely schoolmarm comes in
> to help tutor the kiddies. Say she gets obsessed easily. Say she
> falls for Bull. Say she's a mantis shaman initiate. Make her damn
> near unkillable, just when bull thinks he's gotten away from her,
> her stock phrase (e.g. "you _do_ love me, don't you?") comes
> floating in earshot.......
Or better yet, her *other personality* is a mantis shaman... That way she can't
be held liable for any... things that she may do. It'd take him a really long
time to even figure it out!
Gossamer
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 14:02:00 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> <<SPOILER_SPACE=TRUE>>
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> Is this enough? A little farther yet:)
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
>
> >What I'd really like to see is your suggestions for what else I can to
> >do
> >torture the Ork Decker.
> >I mean I've beat on him with bugs.
> >I've bedeviled him with bandersnatch.
> >I've yanked him around with Yakuza.
> >
> >What else does he deserve?
>
>
> Have you tried using the Ordo Maximus?
> What about Alamos 20K or the Human Nation?
> The Black Lodge?
> Winternight?
> Halberstam's Babies?
Yeah, I've really gone through Threats with a fine toothed comb.
He's in one way or another touched most of these, some I'm saving for
later.
> Have you thrown him up against a were?
Yes, they mauled the werewolf in Total Eclipse!
And they have worked with/been afraid of Striper.
> Hmmm...Attack of the Killer Mimes:) An assassin that uses the guise of a
> street performer is sent after Bull:):)
Not a mime, but a babysitter did try to geek him.
She was a meat-drone, and full of cyberware ...
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 12:10:41 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <ltwiss@****.cyberport.net>
From: VÆL <ltwiss@********.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
In-Reply-To: <5A0E04FD0@**.opp.psu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
If memory serves correctly, Brett Borger wrote:
> > Do any of you besides me find this... illegal?
> hold on there! Before you get all uptight, take a more skeptical
> look at Whats-his-faceys post. As I see it:
Actually, I for one, do not believe that WOTC is financially in a
position to buy out FASA. Buying out FASA would be entirely more
financially straining then buying out TSR. TSR, is needy. They _need_
to be bought to survive. FASA has done a extraordinary job with their
licensing and I'm sure the royalties they receive are fair. With
FASA's new interactive company, it looks like they are doing well,
and are financially healthy.
If FASA were to sell, it would be for a large sum of money, to buy
off the current three owners. Were as, TSR just needs a new owner to
pay their bills, not their wallets so they can walk away.
> 1) He is merely poorly informed, with a bit of a paranoid nature
The major problem I have with these rumors, is that the people talking
seem to be excited about WOTC looking into buying companies. Why would
you be excited about it? Do these people not understand the
consequences?
Yes, sure, it is probably never going to happen. But to promote or
gleefully await something like this to happen is ignorant.
> Or
> 2) He is having a good laugh
>
> I mean, _IF_ all this is true, I can easily see WOTC simply looking
> around....now that they have TSR, it's only natural to try and carve
> their niche. Talking to people, even everyone, doesn't mean they're
> going to BUY them all. I mean, WOTC is not all _that_ powerful!
Yes, this I know.
> Personally, I think WOTC talked to someone...someone else heard it
> and mentioned it....a third person twisted it a bit, threw in a
> few more companies,.....and PRESTO! You have thousands of gamers
> rushing about screaming MONOPOLY!
Actually, I am getting a different vibe. They aren't screaming
monopoly. They are going 'yeah! WOTC is buying the world!' Even if
WOTC isn't.
> (And as someone said, Several gaming companies' Stocks soar, which
> means they aren't going to comment either way....everyone assumes "No
> comment" means that they are right....and the company didn't lie one
> little bit.)
How can a _privately_ held company's stock 'soar'?
There is no such thing in a _private_ company. There maybe a way of
maintaining accountability for assets controlled by: but little else.
Sure they will sell more books etc. Which in turn brings up the
profit margin for allocating funds back into the company's assets or
it's owner's wallets. But LT effects are going to bring a whip lash,
as did the initial introduction of M:TG to the market.
Yippee! A new game is on the market that is going to bring floods of
cash to us. <Now three years later> Hurry quick, buy us, because we
managed the ride wrong.
Vael
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 14:05:22 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> > spoiler
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
>
> Not bad, but how about this one. It's slightly evil so bear with me.
> Now we have all seen Bull talk about how the magic rules are his week
> spot, and i'll assume that Tinner has read the novel i'm gonna refer to.
> (I think it was the one with Dirk Montgomery in Hawaii, but I might have
> just made that up) Anyway there's this novel where a troll becomes a
> bear shaman I believe, and at the end of the book all of his cyberware
> gets pushed out of his body. Bull IMHO acts like a dog shaman, make him
> one. :)
That VERY evil Caric. I like it.
However, having a Dog Shaman working with a Coyote Shaman would radically
alter the flow of our game.
I'm still toying with the notion of fragging his cyberware though ...
Vampirism sounds really good.
I could have start finding grey in his hair, and then all over his body, as
he slowly becomes a Wendigo.
He would definately want to find a cure, and that could lead him to Martin
DeVries and the whole vampiric conspiracy.
This deserves looking into.
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 14:07:08 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> okay
> b
> u
> l
> l
> b
> u
> l
> l
> b
> u
> l
> l
> b
> u
> l
> l
> b
> u
> l
> l
>
> Run the adventure "Ghost Toasties" from the Ghostbusters RPG.
Oooh ... now that's EVIL! ;-)
> But seriously, have the real Bull show up. Rak's been playing Bull's
clone
> and the real Bull is pissed.
<superman/on>
Yeah! And I could have a young Bull, and a Cybermancyied Bull, and a Bull
in Iron armor ... and then later down the road, Bull could turn into energy
and get a new blue costume!
<superman/off>
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 14:10:10 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >>>>> Steven A Tinner didst say unto the aether thusly:
> B
> u
> l
> l
>
> y
> o
> u
> n
> a
> uu
> g
> h
> t
> y
>
> o
> r
> k
>
> n
> o
>
> r
> e
> a
> d
> i
> n'
> !
>
> Have you flummoxed him with a Fatal Attractionesque femme fatale?
I tried, but the problem is that one of Bull's main character traits is his
undying loyalty.
He plays it VERY well! He would literally die before hurting his wife and
kids.
That's why I torture him with them ... because it brings out such a gut
level reaction in the player!
Plus, Bull's background really makes him a loyal family type.
His parents died in the Ohio riots trying to protect their Ork son.
Cheating and Adultery just aren't in Bull's language.
> (Sorry, just had to). Say that a lovely schoolmarm comes in to
help
> tutor the kiddies. Say she gets obsessed easily. Say she falls for Bull.
Say
> she's a mantis shaman initiate. Make her damn near unkillable, just when
bull
> thinks he's gotten away from her, her stock phrase (e.g. "you _do_ love
me,
> don't you?") comes floating in earshot.......
This is a great plot idea, but as I explained earlier, Mantids just aren't
like that for Bull and his partner Johnny.
After all, they helped the Mantids sneak out of Chicago!
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:10:34 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:44 AM 7/16/97 -0400, Steven A. Tinner wrote:
spoiler space
Ok, after reading a bunch of posts on this and some of Tinner's answers, I
think I've thought of the most evil thing you could do to Bull:
Force him to retire.
After all the stuff he's done and been through (which sounds like a lot),
having a wife and kids, he's got to be asking himself "Why in the hell am I
still doing this?" No sane person runs for a living when all that keeps
happening is they get screwed and they put they're family in danger. Put
Bull in a situation where he'll have to really think about why he's doing
what he's doing. If he can come up with a reasonable, sane explination of
why he's still running when he doesn't need to be, then maybe he should
stick around. Chances are, though, that won't happen.
Characters reach a point where, no matter how fun they are, it's time to
put up the sheet, grab the books, and start creating somebody new.
Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/
The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton
Gencon count down: 22 days
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 14:17:28 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> At 01:44 AM 7/16/97 -0400, Steven A. Tinner wrote:
> spoiler space
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Ok, after reading a bunch of posts on this and some of Tinner's answers,
I
> think I've thought of the most evil thing you could do to Bull:
>
> Force him to retire.
Umm ... I think you missed some of Bull's posts on this subject.
He's planning to retire around September, or whenever we get the RBB2, and
Cyberpirates.
The plan is to relocate to the Carribbean, and live on a yacht,
occaisonally working as smugglers and pirates.
> Characters reach a point where, no matter how fun they are, it's time to
> put up the sheet, grab the books, and start creating somebody new.
Agreed, and we've already done that.
But the part we really enjoy about Bull is his character, not the runs.
We're still having a ball exploring that part of Bull, so even retired, I
imagine we'll still play with him a bit.
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:15:05 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: [OT] Audi?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Steven A. Tinner wrote:
>
> > >Bull has an "outtie?" Wow!
>
> Actually he has two "innies"
>
> Ask him, it's true!
>
> And my brother has NO navel at all.
> TRUTH!
You guys need to all move away from that nuclear plant.
I mean it. :)
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:02:49 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <ltwiss@****.cyberport.net>
From: VÆL <ltwiss@********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
In-Reply-To: <199707160537.BAA00734@***.ncweb.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
If memory serves correctly, Steven A. Tinner wrote:
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
P
A
C
E
|
|
V
> OK, I have to confess, the header is a little misleading.
> I'm not gonna kill Bull ... unless he deserves it.
Even if he deserves it, there are so many more psychologically
disturbing things to do to him.
> What I'd really like to see is your suggestions for what else I can to do
> torture the Ork Decker.
> I mean I've beat on him with bugs.
> I've bedeviled him with bandersnatch.
> I've yanked him around with Yakuza.
On of the most horrifying things that ever happened to one of my
characters was the following:
My fellow runners and I were on a run in Seattle. After a run that
went bad, my character was captured. My fellow runners went off to
the hide out.
Scott, the GM, sat before me -with all the other players watching-
and started to interogate me.
Scott: 'Where are your friends you filthy swine!'
Vael: 'Frag you you two yen slot!'
Scott: 'Bwahahah! Beat on him Chuck!'
THWACK! BIFF! BANG!
Scott: <checks off some physical damage on Vael's sheet> 'Tell us
where they are!'
Fellow Runners: 'Don't tell him Vael!'
Vael: 'Again, frag off you infected slot!'
Scott: 'Bwahahahah! Cut his face Chuck!'
SLICE!
Vael: 'aaaaaaa.'
Scott: 'Vael, change your charisma from 5 to 4.'
Vael: 'What? Aren't I suppost to just be taking physical box damage?'
Scott: 'Bwahahah! Tell me were your friends are puny human!'
Fellow Runners: 'Don't tell his you bastard!'
Vael: 'uhhh... Frag off?'
Scott: 'Cut off his arms Chuck!'
Vael: 'Wait a minute!'
CHOP CHUNK! CHOP CHUNK!
Scott: 'Drop your stregth from 6 to 1.'
Fellow Runners: 'Don't you tell him or we will kill you!'
Scott: 'Were are they!'
Vael: <looks to his fellow team memebers who he is loyal to. Then
back to the GM> 'Uuuhhh.'
Scott: 'Chuck, cut his tendons apart!'
SLICE! SCLICE!
Scott: 'Drop you dextarity from 5 to 3'
Vael: 'Is this in the rule book? <crying as he pulls once again his
pencil to his character sheet>'
Scott: '<leaning close to Vael-whispering> If you tell us where your
friends are: we will fix you.'
FF's: 'DON"T DO IT!'
Vael: <whispering back:> 'You are going to kill me, if I don't tell
aren't you?'
Scott: <smile> <looks down to Vael's Chara sheet> 'Do you like 1's?'
FF's: 'DON"T TELL HIM YOU TRAITOR!'
Vael: 'They are in X location.'
Scott: 'Doctor Zee, fix him back the way he was. Chuck...get the
guns!'
Later as I talked to Scott, I asked him: Would you have killed me?
His answer: Yes.
There is nothing more morally testing then a character that you have
played for years, and the situation were to save your life you have
to rat on your friends. I'm telling you: You will act diffrently then
you think.
That character after that was always forced to take point, do the
shit work etc. but... you've just got to be there.
Vael
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 14:05:36 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Black Death <ddmaster@**.NET>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
VÆL wrote:
> > WOTC has been chatting with some other companies regarding potential
> > future acquisitions, the companies in queston are: West End Games
> > (they would not comment on this in Ottawa, and they certainly
> wouldn't
> > deny anything); White Wolf (not much to substantiate yet); and FASA
> > (Jill Lucas at FASA has confirmed that talks are underway, but would
> > not disclose the nature of those discussions); There is also rumor
> > that WOTC may want Ral Partha as well.
Who is WotC? I have never heard of them. Why are they wanting, TWILTM,
to buy all the RPG companies? Do they have plans to jack all prices up
out of some of our reaches??
> Do any of you besides me find this... illegal?
yes i do .
>>WOTC had better calm down or they are going to have a monopoly inside >the
roleplaying industry.
Mayby that is what they want.
hell i live in a small town thats has two grocery stores they're owned
by the smae company. when i say small about 7-8 thousand people lving
here.
>>If america was _truly_ a free market there would be no problem here, but we
aren't.
I agree and there's other stuff that's suppose to be that aren't.
But we need to stay off this subject so we don't the channels grouch's
hackles raised.
> I'm all for WOTC bailing out flailing companys (ie: TSR),
<sounds of forehead being beaten> Ahhhh WotC= Wizards of the Coast
You talling me they do more than trading cards? </sounds of forehead
being beaten>
I agreee but why go after FASA? They aren't a failing company. Or are
they and they have not told us their loyal followers??
> >From a marketing stand point, this is good business. The people at
> WOTC know business, and are in it to make money, as well as good
> product. Because, they have separate passions inside the company.
> People that love gaming, and people that like gaming but love
> marketing, or accounting, or...
>
> They are on the right track for making gaming and games in general
> the next thing to movies. But they are going about it in a very
> Microsoft way.
What makes you think this? Did you mind probe their CEO? :)
>
> Vael
--
http:/www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/3869
<BlkDeath> WA:: Request a kick on aisle 10. please
*** You were kicked from #Shadowrun by WildAngle
(Victim number 10 Aisle 10! Clear out! Contaminated
soy spilled!)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:04:58 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Loseke <mike@******.VERINET.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
In-Reply-To: <33CD1B7F.224A05CC@**.net> from "Black Death" at Jul 16,
97 02:05:36 pm
Content-Type: text
Quoth Black Death:
>
> VÆL wrote:
> > > WOTC has been chatting with some other companies regarding potential
> > > future acquisitions, the companies in queston are: West End Games
> > > (they would not comment on this in Ottawa, and they certainly
> > wouldn't
> > > deny anything); White Wolf (not much to substantiate yet); and FASA
> > > (Jill Lucas at FASA has confirmed that talks are underway, but would
> > > not disclose the nature of those discussions); There is also rumor
> > > that WOTC may want Ral Partha as well.
>
>
> Who is WotC? I have never heard of them. Why are they wanting, TWILTM,
> to buy all the RPG companies? Do they have plans to jack all prices up
> out of some of our reaches??
Wizards of The Coast. The biggest crack[1] dealers in the world. I don't
have a clue as to what they are doing, or why. I hope that they stop,
though, because I don't like them. But that's just me.
[1] M:TG == crack
--
|
Mike Loseke | You never know how fluffy poodles are,
mike@*******.com | until you step in one.
|
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:16:02 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <ltwiss@****.cyberport.net>
From: VÆL <ltwiss@********.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
In-Reply-To: <33CD1B7F.224A05CC@**.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
If memory serves correctly, Black Death wrote:
> What makes you think this? Did you mind probe their CEO? :)
No, he pon-far'd my sister and told her as they were stroking
fingers. <grin>
Vael
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 14:25:27 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:35 AM 7/16/97 -0700, Caric wrote:
>TopCat wrote:
>> Here's the problem, not every Shadowrun campaign has every player and every
>> opponent with maximum Willpower and maximum Body. Whereas your characters
>> may always face such opposition, mine do not. My characters and the
>> characters of those I game with don't have maxxed Willpower or Body as a
>> matter of course. I appreciate that aspect of them a great deal as it is
>> realistic and allows for flexibility in the game.
>I understand that, and I never said that they all did, but not all of
>our magic users have sorcery of six and willpowers or six to resist
>drain.
Funny, but I seem to remember you saying just exactly that, Caric... lemme
get the quote to remind you...
"Again we as shadowrunners are not fighting average people and you can't
argue that. It would be just as easy to just shoot them if you are
fighting pedestrians. How many runner have body and willpower attributes
lower than four? Not many...and if they do then they usually have another
way of defending themselves or have the lower attributes as a role-playing
device and should expect combat to be extremely dangerous to them
regardless."
How many of your group's magicians lack sorcery 6 and willpower 6, Caric?
If "not all" refers to a troll mage who can't have a Willpower of 6, then
I'm still on the plus side here as his base stat is doubtlessly a 6 before
racial mods. If "not all" refers to someone who took Willpower 3 as (as you
say) a "roleplaying device", then maybe you should rethink the power-levels
of your campaign.
There's an earlier message of yours that I've thrown away and therein lies
more evidence. If necessary I'll dredge it up from the archives... is it
necessary?
>> For the benefit of those realistic non-powergamer, non-munchkin types like
>> myself, Steve, please do not include the staggering increase to damage that
>> this rule change would bring.
>Puhlease...spare us the martyred "i'm the only non-power gamer/munchkin"
>rant. We all know that this list by and large is composed of
>non-munchkin players.
Yes, it is, and you're supporting the munchkin side. I'm not being a martyr
here, I have no plans to die for this cause. I'm merely being logical.
>> Why care about an elemental effect when you can melt a guy without breaking
>> a sweat? Besides with Force Drain, DM's will cause more drain than combat
>> spells just like they do now.
>Alot of us non-power gamers look at spells for more than just their
>damage potential TC, some people like elemental effects because of the
>flavor.
Some people like elemental effects because they (at least fire) can blow up
ammo. They're power-gamers. Some people like elemental effects because
they allow Elementalists to cast spells they might not normally be able to
use. Some people like elemental effects just because they like elemental
effects. This last group is rare but does exist. It's the same group that
likes Hellblast just because it's a cool spell to cast. Stupid, but cool.
>> >Yes the target number will be the same, but the caster won't be able to
>> >afford to cast those high damage spells nearly as much. Even manabolt
>> >would do as much damage to you as your target, and you would have to split
>> >up your pool. I don't even want to get into spells like hellblast.
>> But here's the part you've missed... they won't have to cast the spell more
>> than once. It'll kill first-time, all-the-time. So what if you take a
>> miniscule stun wound? You can sleep it off while the opposition goes into
>> rigormortis. A killing Manabolt *might* cause a light Stun wound to a
>> below-average caster. Hellblast will hopefully be gone from the combat
>> spell section in 3rd edition...
>It's not going to kill first time every time, not anymore than it would
>now, the number of success to not take a deadly wound would be
>identical, and the minimum drain for a spell like hellblast is 7D, far
>more then the damage resistance for the target would ever be.
Hellblast has always been a stupid spell to cast, if it remains a combat
spell in 3rd edition, it'll remain a stupid spell to cast. Yes, the number
of successes to not take a deadly wound will be the same, but the number of
successes to avoid all damage becomes impossible to achieve for anyone.
ANYONE. Now, I find this to be more than a little to the silly powergamed
side of things, don't you?
>> >| Shielding always helps, but it wouldn't help near enough. It does plenty
>> >| normally, why shouldn't it do so in this situation?
>> >I don't think shielding should get any better, maybe i'm thinking
>> >incorrectly here, but for combat spells the shielding adds to the target
>> >number and the targets resistance dice...when a DM is cast the shielding
>> >doesn't add to the TN, but the target does get the extra dice to resist.
>> >At least that's how we use it in our game.
>> Never said that it should be better. I said that it acts as it's always
>> acted, it's just that it becomes absolutely necessary if combat spells are
>> modified as suggested whereas it isn't a necessity as the rules are now.
>Not any more necessary than before unless your spellcaster's are all
>still running around with force 6 spells.
Sure it's more necessary, I die or take damage no matter how mentally tough
I am under this proposed rule change. I *need* shielding dice to have even
a tiny chance of getting away from a spell with no damage regardless of the
spell's force and my Willpower. I call that more necessary since under the
current system I'd have a shot at reducing it to nothing.
>> >| >DM's will have lower target numbers, but the opponent gets some
>> >| >or all of there impact armor.
>> >| And a full damage resistance test as opposed to a handful of dice from
>> >| Willpower or Body. Remember that a force 4 (mediocre) spell was cast
>> >| against a *max* human willpower target and still caused damage without
>> >| trouble. Drain was handled easily. The target got no damage resistance
>> >| test just a spell resistance test. Imagine what this would do to anyone
>> >| without a 6 willpower (90% or more of SR)?
>Okay so where do we draw the line between "god-like" and average. You
>say in one breath that having a willpower over three is munchkin, yet a
>force four spell is "mediocre." Are you just deciding as you go along,
>or is there sound reasoning behind it?
I've never said in any breath that a Willpower over 3 is munchkin. I can
quote any and all of my messages on this subject to prove this, should you
wish. Nor have I used "god-like" to refer to maximum Willpower. Maximum
willpower is not munchkin or "god-like" nor have I ever stated it to be so,
it is simply maximum Willpower. It should be able to resist spells and be
damnably hard to cast against. An average spell by an average caster should
have an average result on an average target. Simple, unmunched, accurate,
and easy to achieve. All we have to do is keep the magic system as is.
I've explained this point thoroughly and with sound reasoning throughout,
but you obviously haven't read my replies. Perhaps choose to do so in the
future so you don't look this bad again. I know that I wouldn't want to
look as bad as you did here...
>> And the mage took no drain and the mana missile was cast at a mediocre force
>> by a mediocre mage at a *max* Willpower target. I'd like to hope that the
>> best human Willpower out there could withstand a mediocre magical assault...
>Again unless you are in a "god-like" campaign then force four shouldn't
>be mediocre.
Force four is mediocre. It is average (3.5 is average, actually) which is
mediocre by definition. You do understand definitions, correct?
>> >| >The drain would be high enough that it would even out.
>> >| Nowhere near. As it was clearly presented in Steve's example, the drain
>> >| was handled easily and the target (with max human Willpower) of a mediocre
>> >| spell was injured.
>> >We are talking about the drain on a manamissile so yes it was handled
>> >easily...if the spell had been a manabolt the drain would have been
>> >light...do you think that the casting magician should take a wound equal to
>> >the one he deals out? I think that a light drain to deliver a moderate
>> >wound is not overbalanced.
>> And the damage would've been Moderate instead of Light to the target. I do
>> think that the casting magician should indeed take a wound equal to what he
>> deals out if the target possesses the pinnacle of the target stat.
>> Truthfully, he should probably take more damage. It should be very
>> difficult to harm a max Willpower target.
>That's not sound as far as game mechanics are concerned. Basically you
>are saying that someone who has a willpower of six should knock a few
>mages unconscious from drain before he takes serious wounds from spells.
No, what I've been saying (in small words this time) is that a mage should
have problems hurting in any way the pinnacle of human Willpower. They
shouldn't have to fall unconscious in the process. So, basically, you're
wrong again in the way you've chosen to state my views. They've been
explained pretty clearly throughout this so please explain to me why you're
having problems dealing with them?
>That's absured. Magic is feared because it's deathly powerful, but I
>don't see that someone should be able to cast spells with absolutely no
>drain. Why should it be necessary for the mage to learn spells at
>insane levels to be effective, when any punk with a gun and a firearms
>skill of three has a chance to kill you. Why should it be different for
>mages.
Magic isn't feared because "it's deathly powerful". It's feared because
it's alien and only a small precentage of society has access to it in any
form. I have no problems with raising drain (nor have I ever stated that I
did have a problem with it). My problem comes from the effectively
unresistable combat spell modification. Raising drain as a downside to this
enhanced power still leaves combat spells severely overpowered. Leave the
system as it is and there are no problems. So the system doesn't need to be
changed in regards to drain or combat spell power.
>> >| >The higher target numbers on combat spells would limit there
>> >| >effectiveness in comparison to DM's.
>> >| Higher TN's? The average Willpower in SR is three (maybe 2, but I'll
>> >| give it the benefit of the doubt). This is less than the 4 TN of a
damaging
>> >| manipulation. Average Body? Same. Still lower, nice and easy to cast
>> >| on. There is no downside to the enhanced power that this would give
Combat
>> >| Spells. The drain increase is inconsequential, the target numbers better
>> >| on average than DMs, and the damage unavoidable in almost every case.
>> >Again we as shadowrunners are not fighting average people and you can't
>> >argue that. It would be just as easy to just shoot them if you are
>> >fighting pedestrians. How many runner have body and willpower attributes
>> >lower than four?
>> Quite a few and all of them would be killed easily by a mediocre spell cast
>> by a mediocre mage under the proposed combat spell rules. Remember, not all
>> of us play "Monty Haul". Some of us like at least a little realism in
our
>> games. If I wanted to play my own little Harlequin, I could, but I hate
>> that type of gaming and don't respect it or those that would advance it.
>Again force four spell=mediocre yet four willpower="god-like?"
Four Willpower is slightly above average. I've never said it was
"god-like". As I mentioned before, I'll gladly quote any of my previous
mailings on the subject if you wish to look absolutely wrong before your
peers. Do you?
>>> Not many...and if they do then they usually have another
>>> way of defending themselves or have the lower attributes as a role-playing
>>> device and should expect combat to be extremely dangerous to them
>>> regardless.
>> An average stat is a roleplaying device? If so then anything not average is
>> a powergaming device. Neither statement is correct for reasons I won't go
>> into now. An average spell cast by an average mage should have an average
>> result on the average person. That sounds balanced to me and I'm sure to
>> many others as well. As the system is now, it emulates this nearly to
>> perfection. If it were changed, magic would run rampant through any and all
>> opposition.
>I disagree. An average spell should be the same rating as an average
>stat. THe average spell should do it's average damage to the average
>person. A force 3 powerbolt should on average do a serious wound to the
>average person, and it does that uunder both systems, but under one of
>them the caster takes drain and on the other the caster gets away scott
>free.
And under one of them the target can resist it to nothing whereas in the
other the target has no prayer of doing so.
>> From a powergamer perspective, I'd love this. I could kill anything easily.
>> Yay! From any other perspective, it's munchkin crap (going beyond the rules
>> to achieve a self-beneficial result at minimal cost).
>You keep contradicting yourself TC...where is this mythical munchy line
>that we have all crossed?
The munchkin line got crossed when combat spells received a proposal which
would effectively make them unavoidable. I explained that right there in
that quote or didn't you read it again? Maybe you just couldn't logically
link the words to the idea I've been printing here for a while now. No
matter, I've not contradicted myself here. You'd know that if you'd read.
Everyone else knows it.
>> >| A force 3 manabolt cast at an average person would kill every time
>> >| (barring some UGLY die rolling) and drain would be resisted easily. I
>> call >| that unbalancing.
>> >A force three manbolt cast at a normal person would do kill everytime as it
>> >is now, and drain would be resisted easily. I fail to see the difference.
>> The guy would at least have a chance at resisting it under current methods.
>> He'd have no chance under the proposed system, none at all.
>By resisting it I assume you mean taking absolutely zero damage. Is
>this correct? I will assume so because otherwise your above statement
>is completely false. Based on that would you expect the average person
>to take no damage from a shotgun blast? How is that different from a
>spell?
A shotgun blast allows for several things. One, the target gets a full
damage resistance test which includes armor modifications and combat pool.
Two, the shooter could have the choke set at a variety of levels. At low
levels the shot might not even make it to the target, at high levels the
shot won't have as great a damage potential. Three, partial cover can help
save one from a shotgun blast. Four, shotguns can jam or misfire. Five,
shotguns aren't very concealable. Six, shotguns run out of ammunition.
Seven, shotguns and ammunition cost money. Eight, vision and range play a
factor with shotguns. Nine, the act of firing a shotgun is rather loud and
attracts a great deal of attention. Ten, shotguns can have a great deal of
problems with the environment (try swinging one around in a hallway or
shooting one after it's been dragged through a swamp).
Combat spells on the other hand: never run out of ammo, don't cost a dime,
don't have to mess with range or visibility, won't jam or misfire, don't
care if the target has some cover or not, are as concealable as anything can
be, are silent, don't have to worry about armor, will work even if wet,
can't be taken away from you and then used against you, don't have to mess
with the target's combat pool, and can target a *low* stat on any given target.
Before you say "well, spells could have to go through shielding", shotguns
could have to go through hardened armor (null effect). Or they could have
to go through a barrier. Or they could miss. Oh yeah, and it doesn't
require an initiate to be able to wear armor or have a barrier cast or to be
missed.
>I understand that you seem to think that you are stopping powergaming,
>but we are all aware what munchkinism is and how to control it. Drain
>is something that can help to curb that under the correct
>circumstances.
Drain, even at Force, doesn't come anywhere near balancing out the
unavoidable damage clause for combat spells. Leave the rules as they are.
They aren't broke now, they don't need to be fixed.
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 14:31:52 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Black Death <ddmaster@**.NET>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
VÆL wrote:
>
> If memory serves correctly, Steven A. Tinner wrote:
>
> S
> P
> O
> I
> L
> E
> R
>
> S
> P
> A
> C
> E
>
> |
> |
> V
>
> > OK, I have to confess, the header is a little misleading.
> > I'm not gonna kill Bull ... unless he deserves it.
>
> Even if he deserves it, there are so many more psychologically
> disturbing things to do to him.
>
> > What I'd really like to see is your suggestions for what else I can
> to do
> > torture the Ork Decker.
> > I mean I've beat on him with bugs.
> > I've bedeviled him with bandersnatch.
> > I've yanked him around with Yakuza.
>
> On of the most horrifying things that ever happened to one of my
> characters was the following:
>
> My fellow runners and I were on a run in Seattle. After a run that
> went bad, my character was captured. My fellow runners went off to
> the hide out.
>
> Scott, the GM, sat before me -with all the other players watching-
> and started to interogate me.
>
> Scott: 'Where are your friends you filthy swine!'
> Vael: 'Frag you you two yen slot!'
> Scott: 'Bwahahah! Beat on him Chuck!'
> THWACK! BIFF! BANG!
> Scott: <checks off some physical damage on Vael's sheet> 'Tell us
> where they are!'
> Fellow Runners: 'Don't tell him Vael!'
> Vael: 'Again, frag off you infected slot!'
> Scott: 'Bwahahahah! Cut his face Chuck!'
> SLICE!
> Vael: 'aaaaaaa.'
> Scott: 'Vael, change your charisma from 5 to 4.'
> Vael: 'What? Aren't I suppost to just be taking physical box damage?'
> Scott: 'Bwahahah! Tell me were your friends are puny human!'
> Fellow Runners: 'Don't tell his you bastard!'
> Vael: 'uhhh... Frag off?'
> Scott: 'Cut off his arms Chuck!'
> Vael: 'Wait a minute!'
> CHOP CHUNK! CHOP CHUNK!
> Scott: 'Drop your stregth from 6 to 1.'
> Fellow Runners: 'Don't you tell him or we will kill you!'
> Scott: 'Were are they!'
> Vael: <looks to his fellow team memebers who he is loyal to. Then
> back to the GM> 'Uuuhhh.'
> Scott: 'Chuck, cut his tendons apart!'
> SLICE! SCLICE!
> Scott: 'Drop you dextarity from 5 to 3'
> Vael: 'Is this in the rule book? <crying as he pulls once again his
> pencil to his character sheet>'
> Scott: '<leaning close to Vael-whispering> If you tell us where your
> friends are: we will fix you.'
> FF's: 'DON"T DO IT!'
> Vael: <whispering back:> 'You are going to kill me, if I don't tell
> aren't you?'
> Scott: <smile> <looks down to Vael's Chara sheet> 'Do you like 1's?'
> FF's: 'DON"T TELL HIM YOU TRAITOR!'
> Vael: 'They are in X location.'
> Scott: 'Doctor Zee, fix him back the way he was. Chuck...get the
> guns!'
>
> Later as I talked to Scott, I asked him: Would you have killed me?
> His answer: Yes.
>
> There is nothing more morally testing then a character that you have
> played for years, and the situation were to save your life you have
> to rat on your friends. I'm telling you: You will act diffrently then
> you think.
>
> That character after that was always forced to take point, do the
> shit work etc. but... you've just got to be there.
Can we say fillet of > Vael
I like this. i know i would do it with several of my characters(4). But
not with my orc street mage his hide has been saved to many times to
count by his group to do that he would have died to at least pay back
this one time for so many.
--
http:/www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/3869
<BlkDeath> WA:: Request a kick on aisle 10. please
*** You were kicked from #Shadowrun by WildAngle
(Victim number 10 Aisle 10! Clear out! Contaminated
soy spilled!)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 15:36:43 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Peter David Boddy <pdboddy@****.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
In-Reply-To: <199707161904.NAA15932@******.verinet.com>; from "Mike
Loseke" at
Jul 16, 97 1:04 pm
Hmmm, my two cents on the matter says to wait til someone official comes
on, and posts here, or on the newsgroups, then we'll know for sure. All
we can do at the moment is to make more rumours...
As for Wizards of the Coast wanting to buy up a whole bunch of gaming
companies, while I think they would love to be able to do it, I don't
think they have the $$$ to do so. It's one thing to buy out a company
that is/was in financial trouble (TSR), buying out healthy companies is
harder, and more expensive, especially if said company has only a few
owners (FASA has what, three main owners?).
Hehehe, WotC attracted quite a few of it's followers from the role playing
industry, a scheme to buy out several gaming companies would certainly
gain it a lot more followers...
Pete
Pete aka Spitfire
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter David Boddy
Carleton University
Email address: pdboddy@****.carleton.ca
Email address: bx955@*******.carleton.ca
----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 20:39:46 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: A New Thread for Gurth
In-Reply-To: <19970716.123430.17119.0.lobo1@****.com> from "John E
Pederson"
at Jul 16, 97 12:35:18 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|At 15-Jul-97 wrote David Buehrer:
|
|>What can you do with the BBB?
|
|"Johnny, what can you make of this?"
|
|"Ooo, I can make a brooch, or a hat, or a pterodactyl..."
|
|:)
*Groan*
I would THWAP you, but I quite like that character in Airplane.....
:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 20:45:54 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Spell types (was Re: Centering vs Penalties)
In-Reply-To: <33CCFC4E.28E1@********.com> from "Caric" at Jul 16,
97 09:52:30 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|How did it explain it in first edition? Spike? Loki?
I'll have to look that one up.
(I never have my books near me when I'm on the computer.... Too far to
bother walking... (25 minute 'round trip).)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 20:51:54 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Demon Magic - Spoilers for anyone in a ENEMY type game!!!!!
In-Reply-To:
<c=US%a=_%pÞSHAW%l=MSBOSTON1-970716172008Z-9273@*********.boston.deshaw.com>
from "Fisher,
Victor" at Jul 16, 97 01:20:08 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|Coming up...30 lines 'o' Spoilers. If you're not supposed to be looking
|at Horror/Enemy type stuff, or if you're involved in the module
|Harlequin's Back, Move Along, Move Along.!!!
|!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!End Spoilers...
I think you meant 30 exclamation marks of spoiler space.
Not lines. Which made it useless.
I think you might need to have a look at your mailer configuration.
anyway.... If there's something for me to add....
| I'd say critters like Corpselights and Nomads COULD be considered
|precursers to 'true' Horrors, but they'd be EXTREMELY low level ones.
It's always the weak ones that come through first....
| It's been hinted in the Paranormal Animals of Europe, that the
|Wraith may be a harbinger of these nasty litle buggers as well.
Thought so....
| BUT, keep in mind, the two times (to my knowledge) that actual
|stats for THE ENEMY have been displayed, these guys were downright
|TERRIFYING!!! And I'm a GM who LOVES to torment and test his players!
Well of COURSE they were. They were full blown horrors.
Even weaker horrors of Earthdawn'd be very nasty in shadowrun....
| I ran HARLEQUIN'S BACK for my group, and their first encounter
|almost left them TOTALLY devestated! [All except for my resident
|powergamer, who seems to up the stats on his character everytime I look
|away!
You really should copy his sheet and keep that copy, and compate it every
game session then. If he cheats, the only thing he does is spoil it for
everyone else....
He actually matched them blow for blow, that is until I took his
|'Munchie Armor and Weapons and Cyber and Magic' down a peg. Note to
|GM's, it's tough during a campaign to keep track of everything a player
|is up to, and I rely on a fair degree of honesty when they state their
|intentions, but keep an eye on your powergamers, or they'll come back
|and bite you on the butt!].
BUT... If you suspect them of cheating, take the appropriate steps.
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 20:53:41 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
In-Reply-To: <199707161732.KAA28434@*****.u.washington.edu> from "The
Spaceman" at Jul 16, 97 10:32:29 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|>>>>> Steven A Tinner didst say unto the aether thusly:
|B
|u
|l
|l
|
|y
|o
|u
|n
|a
|uu
|g
|h
|t
|y
|
|o
|r
|k
|
|n
|o
|
|r
|e
|a
|d
|i
|n'
|!
|
| (Sorry, just had to). Say that a lovely schoolmarm comes in to help
|tutor the kiddies. Say she gets obsessed easily. Say she falls for Bull. Say
|she's a mantis shaman initiate. Make her damn near unkillable, just when bull
|thinks he's gotten away from her, her stock phrase (e.g. "you _do_ love me,
|don't you?") comes floating in earshot.......
Don't forget... You have to have her boil the kiddies pet rabbit....
:)
Fatal Orctraction...
<Ducks behind carp proof shield>
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 20:58:37 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
In-Reply-To: <199707161751.NAA08580@***.ncweb.com> from "Steven A.
Tinner" at
Jul 16, 97 01:57:01 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|> > > spoiler for Bull
|> > >
|> > > b
|> > > b
|> > > b
|> > > b
|> > > b
|> > > b
|> > > b
|> > > b
|> > > b
|> > > b
|> > > b
|> > > b
|> > > b
|> > > b
|> > > b
|> > > b
|> > > b
|> > > b
|> > > b
|> > > b
|> > u
|> > u
|> > u
|> > u
|> > u
|> > u
|> > u
|> > l
|> > l
|> > l
|> > l
|> > l
|> > l
|> > l
|> > l
|> > l
|> > l
|He does have an older boy named Michael, but Mikeys a bit of a freak,
|considering that he's really only like 3, and was forcibly grown larger.
|I think it would be a little twisted having Mikey find a girlfriend. ;-P
Why? He might be a little on the simple side, but he must have gone through
puberty.....
<VBEGMG>
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 21:00:56 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
In-Reply-To: <199707161754.NAA08648@***.ncweb.com> from "Steven A.
Tinner" at
Jul 16, 97 01:59:15 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|> Orky Bull Spoiler Spaces
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|> Is that enough?
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|> :]
|>
|Mongolia would be good! I can see Genghis Bull sweeping across the steppes
Or you could implant a suggestion saying he wants a steady job as a janitor.
Then it could be Janitor Bull seeping the steps....
<Ducks behind carp proof shield again>
<Shouts from behind the shield>
HEY! I'M IN A SILLY MOOD TONIGHT.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 15:04:55 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Okay here's a few words on combat spells that I think will clear up a great
deal of the confusion people have and the desire for them to be essentially
irresistable...
Combat spells directly attack the tagret's aura. Now, as we've seen
throughout the rules, making tiny changes to one's aura isn't so difficult.
Making large changes is. Casting a manadart isn't so difficult, casting a
manabolt is.
When you cast a manabolt, you are trying to cause a Serious wound or more to
the target. You are attempting to make an immense change in the target's
aura. Doing so is difficult on the caster (higher drain). You are not
attempting to do anything less than a Serious wound.
When you cast a manadart, you are trying to cause a Light wound or more to
the target. You are attempting to make a small change in the target's aura.
Doing so is not very difficult on the caster (low drain).
Now, from a target standpoint, you always resist with the same ability no
matter how great or small the change attempted on you. If the caster has X
successes to change you, you need X+1 successes to counteract that.
Thus, if your Willpower successes exceed the caster's attempt's successes at
causing damage to you, then you should fully resist. His spell attempt
simply was not enough to get past your Willpower. If you don't have more
successes than the caster, then you take damage as he succeeded in casting
whatever degree of damage he chose to cast.
It is no easier to successfully "hit" a target with a manadart than with a
manabolt. There is merely the degree of success with which the caster works
his magic upon a target.
There is no difference drain-wise from a Willpower 6 target and a Willpower
1 target. A manabolt will always cost you a high degree of effort. A
manadart will always cost you a low degree of effort. It is simply easier
to do more damage to easier targets.
This is all simply quoting the current rules as many of you will know. It
describes how combat spells work and why they work as they do. When a
caster uses a combat spell, either he achieves the desired effect or he does
not. That is how combat spells work.
*****
If there was a change to be made to make them work like DMs damage-wise,
here's what I would propose...
Drain = [F + (targeted stat)](DC of Spell)
Damage = F(DC of Spell)
Target = (targeted stat)
Thus a Force 4 manabolt cast with 4 dice from a sorcery pool on a target
with a 4 willpower would, on average, cause a Deadly wound. However, the
caster would have to resist 8S drain. It makes sense doesn't it? Cast
against a difficult target, face difficult drain? Much more sense than the
originally proposed change did. Make it a Willpower 6 target and it becomes
a Moderate damage attack, with 10S drain for the caster. Much more
realistic with drain being at least somewhat defined by the characteristic
that is being attacked.
Attacks cause damage more often, drain causes damage more often. Everything
balances out and ssome realism is actually gained. Of course, I still
prefer the current method as it follows the workings of combat spells
better. I would accept this, however. What do you say to this method?
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 21:05:21 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
In-Reply-To: <199707161800.OAA08898@***.ncweb.com> from "Steven A.
Tinner" at
Jul 16, 97 02:05:22 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|> > spoiler
|> @
|> @
|> @
|> @
|> @
|> @
|> @
|> @
|> @
|> @
|> @
|> @
|> @
|> @
|> @
|> @
|> @
|> @
|> @
|> @
|> @
|> @
|> @
|> @
|> @
|> @
|> @
|> @
|> @
|>
|
|That VERY evil Caric. I like it.
|However, having a Dog Shaman working with a Coyote Shaman would radically
|alter the flow of our game.
|I'm still toying with the notion of fragging his cyberware though ...
|Vampirism sounds really good.
|I could have start finding grey in his hair, and then all over his body, as
|he slowly becomes a Wendigo.
|He would definately want to find a cure, and that could lead him to Martin
|DeVries and the whole vampiric conspiracy.
Or it could lead him to a certain character (now mundane) known as Sir
Twist....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 16:02:11 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:30 AM 7/16/97 -0500, Michael Broadwater wrote these timeless words:
>At 10:15 AM 7/16/97 -0500, Sam Thomas wrote:
>
>>As for my source lets say he/she is freelance "Graphics Illustrator"
that
>>does vast amount of work for one of the principles in the deal.
>
>I worry about people who use un-named refrences and won't back up their
>stories with any facts/proof/evidence. Currently, your source is no better
>than a wild hunch. Worse, actually, as someone who was guessing would
>admit to it.
>
Worse yet, when you say "freelance "Graphics Illustrator", and one of the
companies you mention is WOTC, then you could be talking about one of the
hundreds of artists that work for (or have worked for) WOTC. That's not
exactly a reliable source.
Some of these artists are rather grumpy with WOTC since they changed their
policy toward the artists and how they pay them.
Plus... Few of the artists are really "in the know", if any. They're just
slags who turn in some art to the top brass, sometimes with only "We need a
picture of an Ork with a Chainsaw" as their guide. They don't even know
what the card is gonna be half the time...
Oh well.. I'll take this with a grain of salt until it can be confirmed or
denied. And you may want to consider backing your source up with tad more
info... Unamed sources tend to be rather unbelieveable...
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 16:15:29 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<snipping a lot of ..er...snippage about respective Power levels in
games, Average stats, Skill Levels, blah, blah, blah...>
What in the name of the Wide, Wide, World of Sports are we arguing
about here!!! I've been following this thread, and it just seems to be
getting more muddled with each posting.
I have to say I'm in the camp that average Shadowrunners should be
above average the typical NON-COMBATANT in their stats and skills.
There's no room on the streets for wannabees and posseurs, and I sure as
hell don't want to play. [Well, there is; they're call Highly Expendable
Thugs.].
Caric's in my PBEM, and he doesn't evidence the 'munchie' attitude
I see bandied about here [though I am wondering about that Panther
Cannon :-]. I'm pretty sure the guys in his group consider a character
first, THEN assign the appropriate stats for them. I know I have NO
INTEREST AT ALL in playing some accountant/number cruncher/ corporate
admin guy in a game for the purposes of Role Playing [why do something
in a game, I do for a living?!?]. I game to relax, and as I'm a big fan
of Action movies, my games tend to run the threat level of say, a GOOD
James Bond or John Woo film. A player's character with a bunch of 2's
for skills and stats had better have a PLAYER behingd him with a REAL
good strategic mind behind him, because he'd be at a severe
disadvantage.
I'm talking PCs, mind you. My NPCs run the gamut from below average
to average to above average, to well, you get the idea. I try to reflect
a wide spread of what would 'realistically' be out there. Every mafia
thug isn't going to be some hulking goon [With a FEW EXCEPTIONS, as
CARIC has found out! Even then, I try to tweek the stereotype a bit, to
inject a little bit of comedy :-} And every Aztech facility isn't going
to be guarded by Jauguar Spec Forces. You fit the personnel to the
situation, so as to challenge your players, or at least amuse them a
little.
Throwing all superpowered foes at your players is no fun. A GM's
supposed to be challenging his players, not annilating them. [There ARE
a few occasions where this is called for;]. The chance of a PC 'buying
it' shouldn't be automatic, unless he does something REALLY stupid.And
if they die in the course of an adventure, that's just the way it goes,
but they should be given a chance to pull thru, like the heroes in
movies do. Sort of like 'he gut wrenchingly managed to pull defeat out
of the slavering jaws of victory!', ...or something like that. [I GM'd
one PC that just couldn't escape her death, but she TOTALLY blew me off
guard, by managing to take my best NPC villian with her!]
The level of a GM's PCs should be reflected in the level and TYPE
of game. I wouldn't put a Non~Combatant character constantly up against,
say, Godzilla [By the way, Mat, there's a message under your character's
door from Tokyo!]. You match the character to the type of game the
PLAYER wants to PLAY. [Unless he's a power~gamer, then get out the
trimming shears, and start cutting him back!].
I'll probably be misconstrued and I've already rambled on enough
her, so I'm audi!
>Kohl, physad ork gunslinger, in the AUDI!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 21:23:24 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
In-Reply-To: <33CD1B7F.224A05CC@**.net> from "Black Death" at Jul 16,
97 02:05:36 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|Who is WotC?
Never? Never heard of Wizards of the Coast?
The most hated games company in the world (apart from GW)?
Ever heard of Talislanta? Primal Order? Ars Magica?
They used to be quite a good RPG company, but then some pillock had a
wonderful idea....
The "idea" was Magic the Gathering, and as a result, just before xmas, they
fired their entire RPG side, dumped all their RPG games and concentrated
soley on MtG.
Recently, T$R was in deep doodoos, and WotC bought them out.
Possibly meaning a return to RPGs.
NOTE: They won't buy out all the games companies.
They couldn't afford to even if they wanted to, and I very much doubt FASAS,
or many of the others would want it either.....
|<sounds of forehead being beaten> Ahhhh WotC= Wizards of the Coast
|You talling me they do more than trading cards? </sounds of forehead
|being beaten>
Ahh, seems a good beating refreshes the memory.
No, they don't do anything other than crappy trading cards.... anymore....
I imagine that's WHY they bought T$R...
So their T$R subsidiary can sell RPGs whilst the main company still sells
Magic the addiction.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 21:24:28 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
In-Reply-To: <199707161904.NAA15932@******.verinet.com> from "Mike
Loseke" at
Jul 16, 97 01:04:58 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
| Wizards of The Coast. The biggest crack[1] dealers in the world. I don't
|have a clue as to what they are doing, or why. I hope that they stop,
|though, because I don't like them. But that's just me.
No it's not....
|[1] M:TG == crack
You're kidding right? MtG is FAR more addictive than crack!
:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 16:23:31 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Audi?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:15 AM 7/16/97 -0700, Caric wrote these timeless words:
>Steven A. Tinner wrote:
>>
>> > >Bull has an "outtie?" Wow!
>>
>> Actually he has two "innies"
>>
>> Ask him, it's true!
>>
>> And my brother has NO navel at all.
>> TRUTH!
>
>You guys need to all move away from that nuclear plant.
>
>I mean it. :)
>
>Caric
>
Well... We DO have a nuclear power plant right around the corner, but we
were born before it was built...:]
But it IS really odd... I have a birthbark on my back, about 2/3 of the
way down, that looks a little like a belly-button...:] And Tinner's
brother ken really DOES have no naval. And since me and Ken are the same
age, we joke taht I stole it in the hospital...
:]
bull-the-revealing-more-than-you-needed-to-know-Ork-Decker
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 16:35:18 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
On Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:58:24 -0500 "Faux Pas (Thomas)"
<thomas@*******.COM> writes:
>At 01:44 AM 7/16/97 -0400, Steven A. Tinner whispered:
>>Just remember, I might use some of these, so be sure to use some
>spoiler
>>spaces!!!
>
>okay
>b
>u
>l
>l
>b
>u
>l
>l
>b
>u
>l
>l
>b
>u
>l
>l
>b
>u
>l
>l
>
>Run the adventure "Ghost Toasties" from the Ghostbusters RPG.
Eh?
>But seriously, have the real Bull show up. Rak's been playing Bull's
>clone
>and the real Bull is pissed.
Why am I reminded of Maximum Clonage from Spiderman?
:)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 16:35:18 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
On Wed, 16 Jul 1997 14:02:00 -0400 "Steven A. Tinner"
<bluewizard@*****.COM> writes:
>> <<SPOILER_SPACE=TRUE>>
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> Is this enough? A little farther yet:)
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>>
<snip>
>> >What else does he deserve?
<snip Threats suggestions>
>Yeah, I've really gone through Threats with a fine toothed comb.
>He's in one way or another touched most of these, some I'm saving for
>later.
Well, it was worth a try.
>> Have you thrown him up against a were?
>
>Yes, they mauled the werewolf in Total Eclipse!
>And they have worked with/been afraid of Striper.
There's another idea shot down...
>> Hmmm...Attack of the Killer Mimes:) An assassin that uses the guise
>of a
>> street performer is sent after Bull:):)
>
>Not a mime, but a babysitter did try to geek him.
>She was a meat-drone, and full of cyberware ...
You know, you're not making this at all easy...
Bugs are out, weres are out, oddball assassins have been done, I'm not
even going to bother with exactly what all you've done to his family:),
Vamps have been done, crime syndicates got used. Which leaves very
little. So, what about him (or a member of his family) getting infected
by something like VITAS, or some other trully nasty disease. Perhaps he
has a family history of something like cancer? What about bioweapons?
Like Doom or Gamma-Anthrax? Nasty little buggers, both of them, Doom
especially. Basically, give his something he can't fight, an enemy that
he can't see, can't touch, can't stop. I'm assuming that up until now
he's always been able to physically confront, one way or another, the
enemy that he has been placed up against. This time, make the enemy
someone/thing he can't simply beat into submission. A disease, a
political situation, a natural disaster (how far is Cleveland from the
San Madrid fault?). Something he can't fight, a force of nature.
--
-Canthros, whose conscience is bothering him just a bit for this...
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 15:41:06 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Audi?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:34 PM 7/16/97 -0400, Steven A. Tinner wrote:
>And my brother has NO navel at all.
>TRUTH!
What? Was he hatched from a pod or something? :)
Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/
The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton
Gencon count down: 22 days
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 14:43:33 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
In-Reply-To: <2407.199707162024@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 21:24 7/16/97 +0100, you wrote:
>| Wizards of The Coast. The biggest crack[1] dealers in the world. I don't
>|have a clue as to what they are doing, or why. I hope that they stop,
>|though, because I don't like them. But that's just me.
>
>No it's not....
While I don't hate WotC, I must confess to finding their recent business
practices rather pathetic.
"Gee guys, we can't make a decent RPG, so lets just fire our guys and buy
some other guys."
(Which isn't to say the WotC RPG's are bad, I've heard good things abou
them, they just didn't have much success.
>|[1] M:TG == crack
>
>You're kidding right? MtG is FAR more addictive than crack!
I've never tried crack (Seriously), but I've played M:TG a bit, and
probably still will..
-Aj
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 15:45:59 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:48 AM 7/16/97 -0800, Skye Comstock wrote:
>Orky Bull Spoiler Spaces
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Is that enough?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>:]
>
>Introduce him to a big Free Woosp Spirit, he'll like that, really.
What the hell's a Woosp? Is that a cross betweena Wasp and a..uh..the
unmentionable animal (deals with trees, specifically tossing them)?
Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/
The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton
Gencon count down: 21 days
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 16:47:44 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: A Long road home...
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Ok... this may get strange, but bear with me...:]
I was watching Gargoyles today, and I suddenly had a bit f a campign idea,
partly inspired by the Avalon storyline from the cartoon. In a nutshell,
when Goliath, Angela, and Alyssa leave Avalon in this funky little boat,
they find that they can't go straight home. One of the characters on the
island tells them "Avalon doesn't send you where you want to go, it sends
you where you need to be."
And so the characters spend half a season or so bouncing around different
parts of the world, magically travelling through these mists, and having to
solve problems, fight bad guys, or whatever before "Avalon" will let them
leave. Of course, Goliath and Co. are the GOOD GUYS (tm) so they would
never think of leaving before the job was done, so possibly they would be
able to leave if they wanted. But for game purposes, when you have a bunch
of selfish gamers and players, why would they help out anyone unless they
HAD to to leave...:]
So here's the basic plot idea, which I may or may not use...
Shortly in the campign, once Queen Euphoria is done, They'll get to fight
my version of the Steppenwulfs again. basically, the Wulfs are part gamg,
part mad scientists private army in my game, and the players have run into
them (and gotten their asses kicked by them) before.
The Mad Scientist has stolen a Nuclear Bomb during some serios riots and
gang wars that recently erupted in Seattle (Brought on by a combination of
the events from Elven Fire as well as the Dunky Assasination), and will
soon attempt to destroy the Reraku Arcology with it in a wild vengence
scheme. The players are forced to stop him, and along the way they'll
aquire a magical item called the "Phoenix Gate". During the climax pf this
run, they find out that the Phoenix gate allows opens rifts in time and
space, and they can put the nuke through a gate into space where it will
detonate fairly harmlessly...:]
(I have a Coyote Shaman and a Dragonslayer Idol Worshipper in the group, so
coercion won;t be TOO hard... When Coyote or your Idol tell you it needs
your help... <grin>)
Anyways, the Phoenix Gate pulls them into it as well, and they get to spend
several adventures getting dumped through time and space, doing my evil
bidding. This allows me to do a couple things...
A) It makes for a cool idea...
B) I can screw with the players heads..
C) Gee, hard to replace ammo/armor/etc in Medieval England, isn't it? :]
and
D) I can play with some ED stuff if I need to. :]
I haven't fully decided yet, so it's just a rough idea... But if I worked
it right, it could be a fun idea...
Of course, teh gate only opens when the "job" is done, so the players are
forced to do my bidding...:]
Yeah, it smacks heavily of Sliders/Quantum Leap/Time bandits/Etc... but
you know, I always liked those shows...:]
((I really wish the group that I was doing the Friday the 13th, the Series
/ Little Shop of Horrors runs with hadn't fallen apart... That really was
a fun campign...:))
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 16:19:41 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Black Death <ddmaster@**.NET>
Subject: Saving the Team by Self-Sacrifice
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
How many of you players have GMs and other players bitch about your
high level character?
And when you and your team gets into a bind and you try to save the team
by self-sacrifice your GM wimps out and lets you live?
Is it cause he does not want your character to be immortalized by the
action he took to save his team?
To you GMs out there has any of your players tried to do this? and what
did you do about the situation?
--
http:/www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/3869
<BlkDeath> WA:: Request a kick on aisle 10. please
*** You were kicked from #Shadowrun by WildAngle
(Victim number 10 Aisle 10! Clear out! Contaminated
soy spilled!)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 15:18:31 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
In-Reply-To: <199707161925.OAA30919@*******.fgi.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 14:25 7/16/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>How many of your group's magicians lack sorcery 6 and willpower 6, Caric?
>If "not all" refers to a troll mage who can't have a Willpower of 6, then
>I'm still on the plus side here as his base stat is doubtlessly a 6 before
>racial mods. If "not all" refers to someone who took Willpower 3 as (as you
>say) a "roleplaying device", then maybe you should rethink the power-levels
>of your campaign.
Why should he rethink the power levels in his because you don't like them?
I haven't even bothered to read the rest of the post.. this just strikes me
as incredibly pathetic..
-Aj
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 14:38:38 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Skye Comstock <bilbo@****.NWLINK.COM>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970716154558.00923be0@****host>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>At 08:48 AM 7/16/97 -0800, Skye Comstock wrote:
>>Orky Bull Spoiler Spaces
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Is that enough?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>:]
>>
>>Introduce him to a big Free Woosp Spirit, he'll like that, really.
>
>What the hell's a Woosp? Is that a cross betweena Wasp and a..uh..the
>unmentionable animal (deals with trees, specifically tossing them)?
It's an IRC joke I have with Bull, of course, he won't read that...
So, it was kind of there for no reason. He would fear it though. ;)
Hmm...WoodWoosp... Bzzz Chomp Chomp Bzzz
-Skye
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 07:35:11 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970716084259.25907A-100000@******.tamu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> I have a question about all of this, Is FASA a public or private
> company? If they are public, a little rumor goes a long way to
> artifically boost stock prices. Afterall they DID write Corporate
> Shadowfiles.
*grin* True. However, IIRC they're private - a friend and I wanted to
buy shares in them... :)
Lady Jestyr
----------------------------------------------------
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota
monax materiam possit materiari?
----------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 17:43:20 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Saving the Team By Self Sacrifice
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Black Death asks:
>And when you and your team gets into a bind and >you try to save the team by
self-sacrifice your GM >wimps out and lets you live?
Kohl replys:
I used to be know as the 'Killer GM'. The standing joke for anyone
joining my campaign was make sure you've got two or three characters
ready to go. Otherwise, you won't make it thru the night! [I'm not as
bad now. I only draw blood once a week now!]
Truth be told, I've only taken down 6 player characters since I've
been running Shadowrun [I do still get critized for playing 'hardball'
in the game.]. And I think if a player wants to go out with a bang,
saving the group, the GM shouldn't cheat her of that chance.
I mentioned before about a girl in my group who was running a
physad. She was definitely the 'anti-hero' type, but when she had the
chance to walk [read run] away from getting killed, and losing the party
and her PC's sister, she stood her ground, even though it would get her
dead. I was really sorry to do it, but it's what the character and the
player would have done, so who am I to argue? She knew there was no way
out; even I couldn't figure a way, and I designed the 'trap'. What I
didn't expect was her finding a loophole in my 'Master Plan' and using
her sacrifice to take out one of my nastiest NPCS into hell with her.
After picking my jaw off the floor, I was kinda pleased. Though the
character died, she went by her own rules, and the player outwitted me,
which is refreshing. I don't like gaming with a bunch of, pardon the
expression, 'non-imaginitive dullards'.
The player was a little sad about the whole thing, but she was
steadfast in saying it's what the character would have done, and she
wasn't sorry for it. The player DID call me a twisted bastard for
thinking up the whole situation in the first place. :}
Kohl, the Ork Physad Gunslinger, driving around in his brand new Audi!
[Vrrrrrrrrrrrrrrooooooooommmmmmm!!! Beep! Beep!]
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 17:07:14 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:18 PM 7/16/97 -0600, Adam wrote:
>At 14:25 7/16/97 -0500, TopCat wrote:
>>How many of your group's magicians lack sorcery 6 and willpower 6, Caric?
>>If "not all" refers to a troll mage who can't have a Willpower of 6,
then
>>I'm still on the plus side here as his base stat is doubtlessly a 6 before
>>racial mods. If "not all" refers to someone who took Willpower 3 as (as
you
>>say) a "roleplaying device", then maybe you should rethink the
power-levels
>>of your campaign.
>Why should he rethink the power levels in his because you don't like them?
>I haven't even bothered to read the rest of the post.. this just strikes me
>as incredibly pathetic..
It seems pathetic to me that a character with an average Willpower is
considered to have a weak Willpower in his campaign and having a "weak"
Willpower is considered a roleplaying device in his campaign. If said
character is in serious danger simply because he isn't maxed out in all his
spell-targeted stats, then the power level of the game is way askew.
Also, having a weak, average, or high stat has nothing to do with how well a
character is roleplayed.
It isn't so much that I don't like the campaign power level (though
admittedly, I do not), it's that if someone isn't maxxed out they're as good
as dead in his campaign. Requiring a maximum stat to survive a game is
pathetic to me. Basing the average Shadowrun campaign on such a power level
disgusts me and it's something he's been doing since the start of this thread.
As I say in an earlier posting, not everyone plays "Monty Haul". I'd hope
that very few people do, but with some of the things I've seen posted to
this list there could well be many "Monty's" out there...
For the sake of Shadowrun as a playable game and not some overpowered AD&D
or Rifts piece of munchkin crap, I've argued against the proposed
modification to combat spells. He argues that they should be changed based
on what I (and Shadowrun) would call an overpowered campaign. I argue that
combat spells should not be changed at all based on a starting campaign, the
logical progression of power levels from there, the theory behind combat
spells, and game-balance.
Perhaps you wouldn't call Caric's gaming pathetic, but I do. It reeks of a
"give the players the world and smile as they kill everything and get the
treasure and karma, yay!" game to me. Yes, I do have a great deal of
sentiment against such gaming as it kills a game (see AD&D or Rifts). If
they have fun doing that, then that's fine. Just don't bring that "Monty
Haul" crap anywhere near the base rules of a game, there'll be enough of
those campaigns anyway and adjusting the rules to accomodate it can only
turn a game munchy. Some of us like a game that has an actual realistic
spectrum of abilities in characters that can be challenged by realistic
levels of opposition. I like to not *have* to have a 6 Willpower or Body to
survive and normal Shadowrun doesn't require this. That's why I like it as
it is.
Now what's more pathetic, Adam: having fun playing a realistic campaign of
SR or having fun playing a powergamer/munchkin campaign?
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 17:16:25 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Saving the Team by Self-Sacrifice
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 04:19 PM 7/16/97 -0500, Black Death wrote:
>How many of you players have GMs and other players bitch about your
>high level character?
I bitch about over-powered characters all the time...
>And when you and your team gets into a bind and you try to save the team
>by self-sacrifice your GM wimps out and lets you live?
I wouldn't allow the character in the campaign in the first place. Design
the campaign, then design characters to fit it. Assuming I did let the
character in, I'd let him die. In fact, I'd strive to kill him. Cruel?
Perhaps, but he wanted the spotlight...
>Is it cause he does not want your character to be immortalized by the
>action he took to save his team?
Not me, a lot of GMs just don't have the stomach to kill a player.
Especially with powergamers, they're known to throw tantrums and nobody
likes tantrums. Not saying that you would or did, but it's a common
characteristic of the powergamer. Also, sometimes people get really
attached to their characters and quite a few GMs don't like that moment
where they have to say "he's dead, make a new one". There's always that
danger that the player won't like the game now that their favorite (and
often first) character died.
> To you GMs out there has any of your players tried to do this? and what
>did you do about the situation?
My first character was overpowered. I proposed retiring him to my GM and it
was done shortly thereafter. It simply sucks for everyone else in the game
and I, at least, don't want to be the one that makes the game suck for
anyone else. Just retire him and make a new one.
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 17:19:08 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:08 AM 7/16/97 -0500, Mike Broadwater wrote:
>At 10:21 PM 7/16/97 +1000, Lady Jestyr wrote:
>>It's a GAME. Everyone has the right to play the way they like, and a
>>higher power game than yours should not cause a lack of respect...
>>rather, respect them for being honest about the way they want to play.
>I don't think that TC's arguement is against the way they play, but it's
>against rules being dictated to everyone because of the way they play
>(Spells should be stronger because they run a game where the opponents are
>stronger). Bob is right, an average spell cast by an average caster should
>have an average effect on an average person. That keeps it balanced. If
>you want your magic to do more, then be a better caster, or change the
>balance in a direction you favor. But, if you start out with the system
>unbalanced, that requires more effort on more people to change the system
>back to a point where it is balanced. And in the mean time, you have
>people pimping the rules for all they're worth.
Perfectly said, Mike. Now if only everyone else could see this...
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 18:32:50 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Ambient Power Levels in a Game [was SR3 Combat Spells]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
TopCat starts frothing at the mouth:
>For the sake of Shadowrun as a playable game and not some overpowered AD&D
>or Rifts piece of munchkin crap, I've argued against the proposed
>modification to combat spells. He argues that they should be changed based
>on what I (and Shadowrun) would call an overpowered campaign. I argue that
>combat spells should not be changed at all based on a starting campaign, the
>logical progression of power levels from there, the theory behind combat
>spells, and game-balance.
>
>Kohl replys:
> I personally have no problem with the 'power levels' of the spells in
>the game, with attendant drain, as presented, but maybe I'm in the minority.
>Anything can be perverted, GMs just have to keep a handle on things.
>
>Perhaps you wouldn't call Caric's gaming pathetic, but I do. It reeks of a
>"give the players the world and smile as they kill everything and get the
>treasure and karma, yay!" game to me. Yes, I do have a great deal of
>sentiment against such gaming as it kills a game (see AD&D or Rifts).
>
>Kohl replys:
> I also don't play Rifts. I don't think it's a bad game; the power
>levels just not for me. But I know some people who do and like it. They're
>tastes are just as valid as mine.
>
><Lots o' snipping>
>
> I like to not *have* to have a 6 Willpower or Body to
>survive and normal Shadowrun doesn't require this. That's why I like it as
>it is.
>
>Kohl replys:
> I understand what you're saying. I just don't think you're saying it the
>right way. I don't think the rules should be adjusted too much either. [fires
>up anti~carp force screen, preparing for incoming deluge!].
> Also I'm a bit confused as to what you're referring to as a 'normal'
>game. That seems a pretty subjective calling to me. I mean, except for
>certain 'specials' most of the opponents my PCs will meet are things that
>can't be handled with small arms. When a PC requires something bigger, that's
>because it's the exception as one of the BIG baddies, NOT the rule. DOes that
>make my game not normal? Hopefully, my players are still enjoying it.
> Would you consider, say, BUG CITY a normal game, running it with
>characters who have all stats and skills of 3 or lower? I'm not critizing it,
>and if they survive, they got MY respect. What about 'Harlequin's Back'? Is
>that a normal game for your group?
> We all have our 'normal' meter adjusted a little differently, and when a
>few of us have it in the same range, we usually get together and game. My
>favorite example of a power gamer, he and I finally had a parting of the
>ways, because I didn't want to run the level and type of game he wanted to
>play. No bitter feelings [a few nightmares, though], but it's better than
>spending hours bickering, when I could be having fun running thru a story
>with the rest of the group.
>
>Now what's more pathetic, Adam: having fun playing a realistic campaign of
>SR or having fun playing a powergamer/munchkin campaign?
>
>Kohl replys:
> Now, now. Play nice.
>
>Kohl, you know who [Beep! Beep! Vrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrroooooooommmmmm!]
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 17:38:16 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 04:15 PM 7/16/97 -0400, Victor wrote:
><snipping a lot of ..er...snippage about respective Power levels in
>games, Average stats, Skill Levels, blah, blah, blah...>
> What in the name of the Wide, Wide, World of Sports are we arguing
>about here!!! I've been following this thread, and it just seems to be
>getting more muddled with each posting.
Could be, but there's a lot of things being dealt with in this thread. It's
bound to get a bit muddled at times...
> I have to say I'm in the camp that average Shadowrunners should be
>above average the typical NON-COMBATANT in their stats and skills.
>There's no room on the streets for wannabees and posseurs, and I sure as
>hell don't want to play. [Well, there is; they're call Highly Expendable
>Thugs.].
I don't consider this unacceptable at all, except for the bit where you say
"should be above average in...etc". I feel that characters should be above
average on an overall scale (as will easily happen just through chargen) but
not above average in everything. Also, I certainly believe that they should
not need to be maxxed in everything.
> Caric's in my PBEM, and he doesn't evidence the 'munchie' attitude
>I see bandied about here [though I am wondering about that Panther
>Cannon :-].
Panther Cannon? I'd have a field day with that. I call that severe
powergamer, btw.
> I'm pretty sure the guys in his group consider a character
>first, THEN assign the appropriate stats for them.
Gun Bunny Deluxe could easily be created this way. So could the Troll Tank.
Appropriate stats don't necessarily mean non-powergamed stats.
> A player's character with a bunch of 2's
>for skills and stats had better have a PLAYER behingd him with a REAL
>good strategic mind behind him, because he'd be at a severe
>disadvantage.
I've never said that players should have 2's for stats and skills. Simply
that they shouldn't have to have 6's.
> I'm talking PCs, mind you. My NPCs run the gamut from below average
>to average to above average, to well, you get the idea. I try to reflect
>a wide spread of what would 'realistically' be out there. Every mafia
>thug isn't going to be some hulking goon [With a FEW EXCEPTIONS, as
>CARIC has found out! Even then, I try to tweek the stereotype a bit, to
>inject a little bit of comedy :-} And every Aztech facility isn't going
>to be guarded by Jauguar Spec Forces. You fit the personnel to the
>situation, so as to challenge your players, or at least amuse them a
>little.
I also fit the characters to the campaign beforehand. That solves a lot of
problems from th start. If you're setting out to play a detective campaign,
the troll mercenary with a heavy machinegun on a gyromount and enough
cyberware to make him effectively unhurtable isn't going to gel with the
setting. Nor will the super-detection mage that sees all and knows all.
He'll take away a great deal of fun form the other players by solving
everything himself. Balance must be maintained.
> Throwing all superpowered foes at your players is no fun. A GM's
>supposed to be challenging his players, not annilating them. [There ARE
>a few occasions where this is called for;].
I agree wholeheartedly. I despise the earth-shattering plotline and
supervillains. If I wanted that I'd play Champions more often...
>The chance of a PC 'buying
>it' shouldn't be automatic, unless he does something REALLY stupid.And
>if they die in the course of an adventure, that's just the way it goes,
>but they should be given a chance to pull thru, like the heroes in
>movies do. Sort of like 'he gut wrenchingly managed to pull defeat out
>of the slavering jaws of victory!', ...or something like that. [I GM'd
>one PC that just couldn't escape her death, but she TOTALLY blew me off
>guard, by managing to take my best NPC villian with her!]
Sounds good, but I don't base my game on combat at all. It's a lot more
roleplaying and thinking than rolling dice and counting. I like it that way...
>The level of a GM's PCs should be reflected in the level and TYPE
>of game.
The power level and style of the game should be reflected in the PC's and
the NPC's. This may well be what you mean, but to me there's a tiny little
difference (and I do get so excited about these differences, don't I?). The
campaign power-level, setting, and type come before the characters are put
on paper or at least it should, you could far too easily end up with a mess
otherwise.
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 16:42:44 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
In-Reply-To: <199707162207.RAA11288@*******.fgi.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 17:07 7/16/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Now what's more pathetic, Adam: having fun playing a realistic campaign of
>SR or having fun playing a powergamer/munchkin campaign?
Since the point of the game is to have fun, I would not find either of
those 'pathetic', although I would myself prefer to play in the realistic
campaign.
And I agree that rules should not be changed to agree to an 'average'
willpower. Thats what I like about having a few variant rules to pick from,
you can pick the one most suited to you. If one of them isn't suited to
your group, you're likely to just make up a new one anyways..
F / 2 * 1.5, anyone? <g>
-Adam
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 18:42:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Ambient Power Levels in Game
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Oops. that should have been
'...except for certain 'specials', most of the opponents my PCs will
meet are things that CAN be handled with small arms.'
I've had enough of this thread. It's taken too much from my posting
game turns [sorry, guys. I'll catch up tomorrow]. Sort it out for
yourselves, guys. I'm you know what...
Kohl, the ork physad gunslinger, heading home [Beep! Beeep!
Vrrrrrroooooooommmmmmm!!! Beep! Beep!! Screeeeeeeech!!!.. Honk! Honk!!
... BOOM!..BLAM! BLAM!... BLAM!.. BOOM!.. BLAM!...Beep! Beep!
Vrrrrrrooooooommmm....]
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 18:44:07 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
In a message dated 97-07-16 02:19:04 EDT, habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU
(NightLife) writes:
s
p
o
i
l
e
r
s
p
a
c
e
s
j
u
s
t
f
o
r
B
u
l
l
> >What I'd really like to see is your suggestions for what else I can to do
> >torture the Ork Decker.
> >I mean I've beat on him with bugs.
> >I've bedeviled him with bandersnatch.
> >I've yanked him around with Yakuza.
> >
> >What else does he deserve?
> >I'm curious as to your opinions, so please don't be shy, post them!
> >There is NOTHING so odd that I won't consider it!
>
How about informing him of his long lost, gay, brother? Or worse, he
discovers that his deck, after all this time, has had a very special little
bug in it, having worked itself into the MPCP of the deck. Everytime he's
in, it keeps a record of his stuff, then downloads the records to some
mysterious corp. We had a decker once who discovered that he was a
"sleeper", turning out that the corp he hated the most (MCT) was actually the
corp that had "made" him.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:45:42 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
In-Reply-To: <199707162207.RAA11288@*******.fgi.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> Now what's more pathetic, Adam: having fun playing a realistic campaign of
> SR or having fun playing a powergamer/munchkin campaign?
Neither is more pathetic. It's a GAME. It's MEANT to be fun. If people
have fun in a powergaming campaign (and there's a DIFFERENCE between
munchkin and power gaming), then who are you to complain?
Lady Jestyr
----------------------------------------------------
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota
monax materiam possit materiari?
----------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 15:45:39 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mike.paff@*****.COM
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
>
> F / 2 * 1.5, anyone? <g>
>
Are you computing that from left to right, or from right to left
(is it [F / 2] * 1.5 or F / [2 * 1.5])? :-)
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 17:53:14 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:45 AM 7/17/97 +1000, LJ wrote:
>> Now what's more pathetic, Adam: having fun playing a realistic campaign of
>> SR or having fun playing a powergamer/munchkin campaign?
>Neither is more pathetic. It's a GAME. It's MEANT to be fun. If people
>have fun in a powergaming campaign (and there's a DIFFERENCE between
>munchkin and power gaming), then who are you to complain?
I complain when they try to pass off powergaming as the norm and ingrain
powergaming-level or powergaming beneficial rules in the base systems of a
game. Powergame all you like, but keep that crap out of the rules and don't
even think that it's the way the game was designed to be played. It is a
way that it can be played, but it wasn't meant to be.
Also, I agree that there's a difference between powergaming and munchkinism.
That's one of my favorite topics and was found in the Manifesto and I
recently posted a full definition here recently.
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 18:52:58 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
TopCat said:
>> Caric's in my PBEM, and he doesn't evidence a 'munchie' attitude I see
>>bandied about here [though I am wondering about that Panther Cannon :-].
>
>Panther Cannon? I'd have a field day with that. I call that severe
>powergamer, btw.
>
>Kohl replys:
> In all fairness to Caric, he doesn't have a Panther Cannon. He's having
>a tough time trying to get a cheap Korean knockoff pistol. I meant it as a
>joke [just a LITTLE one :-].
>
> You'd be an interresting 'opponent' to have a beer with and argue over a
>variety of things, until we both forgot what we were arguing about. [There's
>a compliment in there...somewhere.]
>
>Kohl, calling in from the car phone in his Audi.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:54:23 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
In-Reply-To: <199707162238.RAA13833@*******.fgi.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> Panther Cannon? I'd have a field day with that. I call that severe
> powergamer, btw.
Oh, be reasonable. It's a FASA published item - that means the
production team must have envisaged a situation where it would be
appropriate. Sure, carrying everywhere you GO is powergaming (and
begging for a jail term) but the item in and of itself isn't munchy -
it's how and when you use it.
> I've never said that players should have 2's for stats and skills. Simply
> that they shouldn't have to have 6's.
They shouldn't HAVE to have 6's, but you sledge anyone who's GOT 6's. By
your way of thinking, apparently a 6 in anything is a sign of
munchkin-ness.
Okay, how about my sorceror adept/rigger. After being played for QUITE A
WHILE, she had (I think) Cha 5, Qui 6, Int 6... everything else was 4 or
below. Does that make her a munchkin, cause she had two stats at 6? (Oh
yeah, and that was WITH bioware, too...)
And I ask you - the cyberware and bioware exist to make an average
character absolutely beefy. Does this mean FASA are all munchkins and
powergamers, since they created the stuff?
I think your vision of SR is significantly different from mine. That's
fine, I respect your right to hold your own interpretations and play the
way you like. Please extend us the same courtesy.
Lady Jestyr
----------------------------------------------------
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota
monax materiam possit materiari?
----------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 17:02:17 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
In-Reply-To: <199707162245.PAA27046@*******.>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 15:45 7/16/97 -0700, you wrote:
>From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
>>
>> F / 2 * 1.5, anyone? <g>
>>
>Are you computing that from left to right, or from right to left
>(is it [F / 2] * 1.5 or F / [2 * 1.5])? :-)
Hehehe..this has to be the funniest thing I've seen all day, even including
Bull having two outties.
I meant [F / 2] * 1.5 ^ :)
-Aj
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 18:16:12 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sam Thomas <sinbad@***.NET>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970716135238.2f4f6238@*****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 04:02 PM 7/16/97 -0400, Bull <chaos@*****.COM> wrote:
>At 11:30 AM 7/16/97 -0500, Michael Broadwater wrote these timeless words:
>>At 10:15 AM 7/16/97 -0500, Sam Thomas wrote:
>>
>>>As for my source lets say he/she is freelance "Graphics Illustrator"
that
>>>does vast amount of work for one of the principles in the deal.
>>
>>I worry about people who use un-named refrences and won't back up their
>>stories with any facts/proof/evidence. Currently, your source is no better
>>than a wild hunch. Worse, actually, as someone who was guessing would
>>admit to it.
>>
>Worse yet, when you say "freelance "Graphics Illustrator", and one of
the
>companies you mention is WOTC, then you could be talking about one of the
>hundreds of artists that work for (or have worked for) WOTC. That's not
>exactly a reliable source.
I never mentioned who the "Graphics Illustrator" had worked for. This is
not a minor league "Graphics Illustrator", sir. This "Graphics
Illustrator"
in the "PROS"
>Oh well.. I'll take this with a grain of salt until it can be confirmed or
>denied. And you may want to consider backing your source up with tad more
>info... Unamed sources tend to be rather unbelieveable...
Yes "Cum Granio Salis" would be very appropriate.
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(c)1997 Sam Thomas |Email:sinbad@***.net|
Sinbad Sam, Owner and Operator of Sinbad Sam's Saloon
Chief Weapons Designer For Reddkneck Arms and Munitions
-----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 16:05:39 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Potential Spoiler:Re: Living material links
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---"J. Keith Henry" wrote:
>
> s
> p
> o
> i
> l
> e
> r
>
> s
> p
> a
> c
> e
> s
>
> i
> n
> s
> e
> r
> t
> e
> d
>
> There is a section in Harlequin's Back concerning Ritual Links and
children
> (won't mention the chapter), but it should be enough of a suggestion
to
> answer your question.
Keep in mind said child of said important person is bearing a foci
that had been implanted in her bone structure. The foci is what is
used to form the link, not the girl's DNA or other tissue.
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 16:33:41 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: david lowe <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 2:43 PM 7/16/97, Adam J wrote:
>I've never tried crack (Seriously), but I've played M:TG a bit, and
>probably still will..
>
>-Aj
What?!! No RoboRally? IMHO the only decent game ever produced by WoTC.
D.
David R. Lowe (dlowe@****.com)
Photography/Graphic Design
"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby."
-Daffy Duck
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 16:45:00 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 16 Jul 1997 17:33:41 PDT."
<v01540b02aff2f91c909c@[140.174.162.210]>
>>I've never tried crack (Seriously), but I've played M:TG a bit, and
>>probably still will..
>>
>>-Aj
>
>
>What?!! No RoboRally? IMHO the only decent game ever produced by WoTC.
Yeah. It's good.
AND I HAVE EVERYTHING FOR ROBORALLY!
I have all of the sets (I even got Crash & Burn before it was out!
Onlything I've ever won in my life)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 18:53:29 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Orion Jackson <orion@****.CC.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Survey] Tormenting Bull
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I can't say that I know the player or character rather well (at all
:) ), but it seems like all kinds of really, really wild stuff has been
thrown at him.
(Parenthetically, have hordes of midgets run around him at odd
moments waving red flags, what else to confuse a Bull?)
Spoiler
.|.
.|.
.|.
.|.
.|.
.|.
.|.
.|.
.|.
.|.
.|.
.|.
.|.
.|.
.|.
Anyway, the guy probably _expects_ really odd stuff to happen now.
("Oh. Another decking run to Zurich-Geimenschaft. Yawn." or some
such.) So bedevil him with something completely and annoyingly mundane.
1.)Like a tax audit (best nasal accountant drone voice: " Mr. ah
'Bull', how much did you claim for business expenses this year? What do
you do, exactly? etc...").
2.)Psycho minibike riding newspaper boys ala Better Off Dead
(character is lurkng about in ultra-secret tribal research center when:
"Gimme my two nuyen!").
3.)Or to be truly evil, throw his familial loyalty in his face.
Have him walk in on his wife fucking another man (or woman, or the
family pet). See what he does and remind him of what it might do to his
kids.
4.)Or just have sheet with nearly illegible handwriting on it
entitled, clearly, "Notes From List About Torturing Bull" and leave it
lying about casually. And then be really nice to him for a couple of
weeks...
Anyhow, back to lurking (organic chem tends to keep me from reading
much of my email (logged onj to 876 messages :) ). Good luck to you and
my condolences to Bull.
Mike-the-chem-major-who-wishes-he-had-time-to-play-SR
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 18:39:05 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <ltwiss@****.cyberport.net>
From: VÆL <ltwiss@********.COM>
Subject: Twonky@********* was:[Re: FASA Being Sold?]
In-Reply-To: <199707162345.QAA13228@****.parc.xerox.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
If memory serves correctly, Benjamin wrote:
> >>I've never tried crack (Seriously), but I've played M:TG a bit, and
> >>probably still will..
> >>
> >>-Aj
> >
> >
> >What?!! No RoboRally? IMHO the only decent game ever produced by WoTC.
>
> Yeah. It's good.
>
> AND I HAVE EVERYTHING FOR ROBORALLY!
>
> I have all of the sets (I even got Crash & Burn before it was out!
> Onlything I've ever won in my life)
You too? They FedEx'd me a Twonky T-shirt and a poster, a month later
they sent me the boards. Along with the nifty letter saying congrats
for being one of three people who.....
Vael
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 17:44:15 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Twonky@********* was:[Re: FASA Being Sold?]
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:39:05 PDT."
<199707170030.SAA05321@*****.cyberport.net>
>You too? They FedEx'd me a Twonky T-shirt and a poster, a month later
>they sent me the boards. Along with the nifty letter saying congrats
>for being one of three people who.....
Yeah.
Hmmm... Is the third winner going to come out of the woodwork and
comment now?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 20:49:20 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Help! I've lost one of my Players!!!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
This is for my PBEM game. Sorry to interrupt on the list like this.
I'm looking for Kevin White. I know he just changed jobs, and was
having trouble with the e-mailer at his new one. I was wondering if
anyone knew how to get in touch with him. Please e-mail me privately, so
it doesn't disrupt the list so much.
My e-mail address is:
adder@******.deshaw.com
Thanks a lot. Have a good evening [or morning, or whatever...]
Kohl, the physad ork gunslinger, who loves his new Audi, and is thinking
of gettin a Rigger mod, so he can be closer to it!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:08:26 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:54 AM 7/17/97 +1000, Lady Jestyr wrote these timeless words:
>> Panther Cannon? I'd have a field day with that. I call that severe
>> powergamer, btw.
>
>Oh, be reasonable. It's a FASA published item - that means the
>production team must have envisaged a situation where it would be
>appropriate. Sure, carrying everywhere you GO is powergaming (and
>begging for a jail term) but the item in and of itself isn't munchy -
>it's how and when you use it.
>
Go fight a Big Assed Mega Awakened Paranormal Beasty sometime without one...
Bull's played tag with a Lampton Lizard (and still have some tentacles to
prove it. Johnny considers it a sex toy:)), Something REALLY big undewater
(Might have been a Megaladon, but might have been a Leviathon for all I
know...), and more Cyber Bandersnatches, Salamanders, and Wyverns than I
care to mention... It's become a running joke that Bull has a Panther in
every room in his house, ever since he nearly got ganked in the John
(Wyvern ripped the roof off and was looking at me while sitting on the
can... Not a good position to be in).
Of course, it's NOT Bull's regular sidearm... He likes the Ruger Warhawk
for that...;]
>> I've never said that players should have 2's for stats and skills. Simply
>> that they shouldn't have to have 6's.
>
>They shouldn't HAVE to have 6's, but you sledge anyone who's GOT 6's. By
>your way of thinking, apparently a 6 in anything is a sign of
>munchkin-ness.
>
>Okay, how about my sorceror adept/rigger. After being played for QUITE A
>WHILE, she had (I think) Cha 5, Qui 6, Int 6... everything else was 4 or
>below. Does that make her a munchkin, cause she had two stats at 6? (Oh
>yeah, and that was WITH bioware, too...)
>
Heh... Should I post Bull's stats? i think his lowest is now a 5... <heh>
But then, when you get close to 400 Karma, what the hell do you expect??
Look at the shit we have to do...
I think the difference between a Powergamer/Munchkin and a Powerful
character is mostly the type of game the character is played in. Bull is
in a high powered game, and despit the high stats and all his power, he
stuill barely survives. For the current power level of the game, he's not
overpowerful.
Munchkins like to be the best and do the most, all the time. they will
even cheat if need be. Powergamers are very similar, though they simply
know the rules better and while they don;t cheat, they tweak and min/max
for maximum power. The main thing though is that they A) live for combat,
and B) like to have be bigger and badder than their enemies. They don;t
like a challenge...
Call me a munchkin if you will, or even a powergamer... But Bull has
slowly gained power over the years, and earned every bit that he's had...
>And I ask you - the cyberware and bioware exist to make an average
>character absolutely beefy. Does this mean FASA are all munchkins and
>powergamers, since they created the stuff?
>
>I think your vision of SR is significantly different from mine. That's
>fine, I respect your right to hold your own interpretations and play the
>way you like. Please extend us the same courtesy.
>
Agreed... I've run several campaigns now, and have set them at various
powerlevels... i've had a game where everyone was a lowpowered nnobody,
where I stressed the lack of combat. My current campign is much of a
higher power level, and I'm giving the players a much greater leeway, since
I want to make things more difficult. i mean, when you start playing with
dragons, Bugs, and nukes, they'd all be dead sevarl times over if they were
"low power".
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 03:06:21 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Blaze <Blaze@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Saving the Team by Self-Sacrifice
In-Reply-To: <33CD3AEC.277F4763@**.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <33CD3AEC.277F4763@**.net>, Black Death <ddmaster@**.NET>
rambled on endlessly about Saving the Team by Self-Sacrifice
>How many of you players have GMs and other players bitch about your
>high level character?
None so far, though a certain amount of amazement was stated regarding
my characters firearms skill :) Can I help it if she liked handguns?
:)
>And when you and your team gets into a bind and you try to save the team
>by self-sacrifice your GM wimps out and lets you live?
Can't say that he does. Three of us so far have sacrificed characters
to let the others live, and give them time to get themselves and others
out of the area. I've lost a favoured character doing this, and two
other players have done the same. Pete has a nasty habit of allowing us
to die "honourably" if we so choose. Otherwise .... well you get the
idea.
>Is it cause he does not want your character to be immortalized by the
>action he took to save his team?
We did have one session with another GM who fudged all and any dice
rolls when it came to heroic actions by the characters, that got pretty
boring fairly quickly, as there was no threat value, and the amusement
was removed. Nothing worse than knowing that your character is going to
survive an impossible situation because the GM doesn't want to upset his
players.
I've noticed from watching other games, that GMs tend to favour friends
and relatives, and the worst is when they're having a relationship with
one of the players. They daren't do anything unpleasant to the player
just in case they "get it in the ear" later.
I suppose we're kinda lucky that Pete doesn't give a damn about what we
think of him. If it fits the time and situation, he'll do whatever
suits.
> To you GMs out there has any of your players tried to do this? and what
>did you do about the situation?
He killed us. He let us die in a blaze of glory, or in one case,
savagely and ignobly, but it allowed the other players the time needed.
I have noticed in one instant, a player got very upset over the demise
of his character, and when questioned about his attitude, stated that he
felt it should have survived. It was pointed out that very few people
would have survived an attack of the nature he suffered, and a single
person is unlikely to be able to fight off a platoon of military types,
least of all NAN special forces. :) But he was adamant that the game
was there for enjoyment, and he would have enjoyed it more if his
character had survived the combat. he sulked for about three months,
refusing to play, and later rejoined after seeing reason. He's since
left again, but that is due to him securing his employment prospects by
stuffing the boss.... ooohh, erm sorry, can I say things like that in
public? Maybe a quick retraction would do, oh damn, there I go again...
I'll shut up quick before I say something really damaging.
--
________ ______ _______ ________________
___ __ )___ / ___ |___ /___ ____/
__ __ |__ / __ /| |__ / __ __/
_ /_/ / _ /____ ___ |_ /___ /___
/_____/ /_____//_/ |_|/____//_____/
Inside every old man, there's a child waiting to escape.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 21:44:10 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Dan Coffin <b1gator@********.COM>
Subject: [OT] Audi again
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:20 PM 7/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>I'm Audi! [Beeep Beeep!]
>
>Kohl
>
Come now, was that *really* necessary? It was an honest question. Jeez...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:36:47 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Saving the Team by Self-Sacrifice
In a message dated 97-07-16 18:45:58 EDT, ddmaster@**.NET (Black Death)
writes:
>
> How many of you players have GMs and other players bitch about your
> high level character?
Okay, I'll stand up for this one...
> And when you and your team gets into a bind and you try to save the team
> by self-sacrifice your GM wimps out and lets you live?
Still Standing...
> Is it cause he does not want your character to be immortalized by the
> action he took to save his team?
No, not all the time (slight smile)...
> To you GMs out there has any of your players tried to do this? and what
> did you do about the situation?
I've let them do it. But I have tried to do otherwise, as I hate people that
are capable of "killing off" their well developed character. Granted, I am
saying this because those characters are usually played by people who -WANT-
to play. The rest of their group sat on their asses to much most of the rest
of the time, and the really good characters always wind up doing the grunge
work.
Yeah, I give those characters the better karma award (Roleplaying or Smarts
or RP/RT or Drama or some combination thereof) but it just seems maddening to
have that happen (good character's becoming martyrs).
And not to muddy the waters to much, but I have rewarded the players from an
AD&D game I ran about 8 years ago. Their character's committed "Self
Sacrifice", a really strange spell (seen Dragonslayer, you know what I mean).
But it killed the bad guys (big nasty dragon with giants and army) and it
was the last game to an entire summer's worth of sessions (the Spear of
Rilobahn). So, I made them Saints and placed their constellations in the
game world's skies.
Sometimes rewards are worth earning but the best times is when they are worth
Giving.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:46:09 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Saving the Team by Self-Sacrifice
In a message dated 97-07-16 19:18:44 EDT, topcat@***.NET (TopCat) writes:
>
> >And when you and your team gets into a bind and you try to save the team
> >by self-sacrifice your GM wimps out and lets you live?
>
> I wouldn't allow the character in the campaign in the first place. Design
> the campaign, then design characters to fit it. Assuming I did let the
> character in, I'd let him die. In fact, I'd strive to kill him. Cruel?
> Perhaps, but he wanted the spotlight...
>
Not to start an argument here, but what if said player didn't want to steal
the spotlight? Sometimes, as you yourself has indicated, "Power" is a
decision. Deciding to play it comes with a lot of responsibilities, for all
those involved in the particular game.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:13:32 -0400
Reply-To: shergold@***********.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Shergold <shergold@***********.NET>
Subject: A possible run
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Here's some spoiler space 'bout the movie "The Relic" and a possible run.
T
h
e
R
e
l
i
c
T
h
e
R
e
l
i
c
T
h
e
R
e
l
i
c
Think that's enough?
Okay, I just saw the movie the Relic and had a truly nasty thought for a
tie in with Shadowrun. I could easily see the party of runners getting
hired to hunt down the creature since it escaped from some corps' little
science experiment. Or a truly evil thought, have one of the players ending
up getting infected, only they are aware of the fact of the transformation,
but unable to communicate what's happening.
SilverFire
"I merely chewed in self-defense."
-Draco the Dragon
"Dragonheart"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:51:09 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
In a message dated 97-07-16 19:22:36 EDT, jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU (Lady
Jestyr) writes:
>
> Okay, how about my sorceror adept/rigger. After being played for QUITE A
> WHILE, she had (I think) Cha 5, Qui 6, Int 6... everything else was 4 or
> below. Does that make her a munchkin, cause she had two stats at 6? (Oh
> yeah, and that was WITH bioware, too...)
>
>
(the Enchanter Adept is smiling in Lady Jestyr's direction) "oooh, Attractive
and Witty..."
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:57:15 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [Survey] Tormenting Bull
In a message dated 97-07-16 20:25:03 EDT, orion@****.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Michael
Orion Jackson) writes:
s
p
o
i
l
e
r
s
p
a
c
e
s
f
o
r
B
u
l
l
> 4.)Or just have sheet with nearly illegible handwriting on it
> entitled, clearly, "Notes From List About Torturing Bull" and leave it
> lying about casually. And then be really nice to him for a couple of
> weeks...
>
Now -THIS- is something good. I was forced to do this once, as I discovered
a player a couple years back was reading my books when I wasn't around and he
was over visiting. When I found out, this became the tactic of choice.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:58:58 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Twonky@********* was:[Re: FASA Being Sold?]
In a message dated 97-07-16 20:57:51 EDT, ltwiss@********.COM
(VÆL) writes:
> > AND I HAVE EVERYTHING FOR ROBORALLY!
> >
> > I have all of the sets (I even got Crash & Burn before it was out!
> > Onlything I've ever won in my life)
>
> You too? They FedEx'd me a Twonky T-shirt and a poster, a month later
> they sent me the boards. Along with the nifty letter saying congrats
> for being one of three people who.....
>
Ah, so now I have found the other two ... my friend is the third ... (not
sure how bad a joke this is)=
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 23:08:12 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Long Range Game Designs [was: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin'
Munchies!!!]
In a message dated 97-07-16 21:11:28 EDT, topcat@***.NET (TopCat) writes:
>
> I also fit the characters to the campaign beforehand. That solves a lot
of
> problems from th start. If you're setting out to play a detective
campaign,
> the troll mercenary with a heavy machinegun on a gyromount and enough
> cyberware to make him effectively unhurtable isn't going to gel with the
> setting. Nor will the super-detection mage that sees all and knows all.
> He'll take away a great deal of fun form the other players by solving
> everything himself. Balance must be maintained.
>
>
Okay, with this paragraph a very distinct question has arisen to me. How
many people out there have a game scenario/series that is "neverending"? By
that I mean that they don't just "get an idea" and design the idea then have
everyone make the characters. After the idea is over, the characters are put
aside.
I mean the games with no end-game in sight. I have a campaign line that has
been in existence, in one form or another, for over 6 years now. It's seen
nearly 34 players (yeah, I sat down and counted all of these) and I don't
know how many different characters (that may be 50% again the above number).
There are 4 players that are still here (talk about -CORE-) and they can
handle nearly fragging anything, and even with a hint of style from time to
time (wondering what definition of style they use however).
Talking about "Detective Games" or "Combat Games" or "Artifact
Games" has
just made me realize that the characters I've had around me, both my own and
others, might be really close to damn unique. The character of my own (there
have been 4 GM's to the line btw) I mentioned a while back with 3000+ game
hours is a case in point. Mike (Airwisp on rec.games.) has had 4 characters
in the list. Duncan has joined the list (Howdy Goose!!), and there are
plenty more.
-Keith (who is really wondering if the definition of -Power- is well and
truly understood)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 23:28:08 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
On Wed, 16 Jul 1997 17:02:17 -0600 Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA> writes:
>At 15:45 7/16/97 -0700, you wrote:
>>From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
>>>
>>> F / 2 * 1.5, anyone? <g>
>>>
>>Are you computing that from left to right, or from right to left
>>(is it [F / 2] * 1.5 or F / [2 * 1.5])? :-)
>
>Hehehe..this has to be the funniest thing I've seen all day, even
>including
>Bull having two outties.
>I meant [F / 2] * 1.5 ^ :)
Next question: how do you do 1.5 to the power of smiley? :)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 20:29:11 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Spell types (was Re: Centering vs Penalties)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---Gurth wrote:
>
> Loki said on 20:16/15 Jul 97...
>
> > That's not the way I interpret the rule. Seems pretty B&W to me.
> >
> > BBB, page 130:
> >
> [snip quote]
>
> Loki, it doesn't help much to just quote a rule without saying
something
> about how _you_ think it should be explained... That's basically what
> this is about -- which interpretation is "right."
That's what my post was for. The rules stated that you "compare the
results of that roll against the varying target numbers for each of
the valid targets within the area of effect. The caster's successes
are counted separately for each target within the radius of effect."
Ergo, if the casting mage rolled 3, 3, 4, 5, 5, 5, 7, 8 with Power
Bolt. This means he has 8 successes off the elven decker (primary
target) with the body of 3. However, that does mean he gets the same 8
successes against the mercs with body 6 (as Keith had been
suggesting)...on them he only has 2 successes.
That better? :o)
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 20:29:02 -0700
Reply-To: gdeych@********.att.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gregory Deych <gdeych@********.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
TopCat wrote:
> It seems pathetic to me that a character with an average Willpower is
> considered to have a weak Willpower in his campaign and having a "weak"
> Willpower is considered a roleplaying device in his campaign. If said
> character is in serious danger simply because he isn't maxed out in all his
> spell-targeted stats, then the power level of the game is way askew.
>
I think you are being facetious here at best. Average willpower is
defined
over all the population of earth. Magicians are a subset of that
population,
and are to be expected to be different. Just as you would not expect to
find
an an average Ph.D (and note that many/most hermetics have an BA/MA
equivalent)
to have IQ 100 or an average pro athlete to run at 16 minutes per mile,
an
average mage will have higher willpower. How much higher...well, that's
where
the question lies. I'd expect an average willpower of 4-5. Six would
be
uncommon, but not nearly as rare as amongst the mundane.
--
gdeych@********.att.net
Please remove "NOSPAM" from the e-mail address before
answering.
His eyes were eggs of unstable crystal, vibrating with a
frequency whose name was rain and the sound of trains,
suddenly sprouting in a humming forest of hair-fine glass
spines.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 23:39:19 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!!]
On Wed, 16 Jul 1997 23:08:12 -0400 "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
writes:
<snip>
>I mean the games with no end-game in sight.
<snip more stuff on this>
Actually, this is how I *always* start out, I just never get anywhere
(between not managing a game a month and not having a consistent group of
players, it's damn hard to get a game going for any period of time,
long-term) Maybe with college in the fall, I'll be able to *play* in a
game that will last a decent period of time (anyone know of a gaming
group in Terre Haute, Indiana that's looking for players? :)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 21:50:55 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
In-Reply-To: <19970716.232636.28879.0.lobo1@****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 23:28 7/16/97 EDT, you wrote:
>>I meant [F / 2] * 1.5 ^ :)
>
>
>Next question: how do you do 1.5 to the power of smiley? :)
Vewwy vewwy carefully :)
Please note, [F / 2] * 1.5 ^ :] is much different.. :)
-Adam
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 23:14:05 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: A New Thread for Gurth
In-Reply-To: <2161.199707161939@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:39 PM 7/16/97 +0100, you wrote:
#|
#|At 15-Jul-97 wrote David Buehrer:
#|
#|>What can you do with the BBB?
#|
#|"Johnny, what can you make of this?"
#|
#|"Ooo, I can make a brooch, or a hat, or a pterodactyl..."
#|
#|:)
#
#*Groan*
#
#I would THWAP you, but I quite like that character in Airplane.....
which makes me ask the question, what countries besides Australia was that
movie called "Flying High"?
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 23:17:05 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Demon Magic - Spoilers for anyone in a ENEMY type game!!!!!
In-Reply-To: <c=US%a=_%pÞSHAW%l=MSBOSTON1-970716172008Z-9273@*********
.boston.deshaw.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:20 PM 7/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
#Coming up...30 lines 'o' Spoilers. If you're not supposed to be looking
#at Horror/Enemy type stuff, or if you're involved in the module
#Harlequin's Back, Move Along, Move Along.!!!
#!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!End Spoilers...
maybe next time you'll put the 30 lines in?
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 00:24:29 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Audi?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >And my brother has NO navel at all.
> >TRUTH!
>
> What? Was he hatched from a pod or something? :)
Exactly!
At least that's what we told him when he was little.
Freaked the poor kid out too.
Told him he "never was really all that "attached" to mom."
The facts of the matter are that when the doctor tied off his umbilical
cord, a small loop of his intestine was caught in the knot.
This later became a problem, and had to be corrected surgically.
Rather than perform plastic surgery on an infant, and give him a navel
(which does nothing but collect lint anyway) they simply sewed him shut
flat.
He has nothing but a small curved scar, which he always referred to as a
"Smiley"
Really fun to freak total strangers with!
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 23:19:28 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Demon Magic - Spoilers for anyone in a ENEMY type game!!!!!
In-Reply-To: <2175.199707161951@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
spioler space about the enemy
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#
#| BUT, keep in mind, the two times (to my knowledge) that actual
#|stats for THE ENEMY have been displayed, these guys were downright
#|TERRIFYING!!! And I'm a GM who LOVES to torment and test his players!
#
#Well of COURSE they were. They were full blown horrors.
#Even weaker horrors of Earthdawn'd be very nasty in shadowrun....
where were they mentioned?
what books? I don't believe I've seen them
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 22:23:57 +0000
Reply-To: hardware@*******.ab.ca
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <hardware@*******.datanet.ab.ca>
From: Shane Courtrille <hardware@*******.DATANET.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OOC?
In-Reply-To: <199707161802.MAA17607@*****.cyberport.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
>Actually, I for one, do not believe that WOTC is financially in a
>position to buy out FASA. Buying out FASA would be entirely more
>financially straining then buying out TSR. TSR, is needy. They
>_need_to be bought to survive. FASA has done a extraordinary job
>with their licensing and I'm sure the royalties they receive are
>fair. With FASA's new interactive company, it looks like they are
>doing well, and are financially healthy.
Then you really do not understand the amount of money WOTC is
bringing in through sales of Magic, and now Legend of the five rings,
and soon TSR items. WOTC has already bought TSR and then another
company. Money is not the issue for them.. they are planning on
taking over the people that make Warhammer.. which is a pretty
massive company...
most people give them a year before they'll finally get it...
Shane Courtrille - hardware@*******.ab.ca
Being in love... What a trip...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 00:44:48 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> |> > > spoiler for Bull
> |> > >
> |> > > b
> |> > > b
> |> > > b
> |> > > b
> |> > > b
> |> > > b
> |> > > b
> |> > > b
> |> > > b
> |> > > b
> |> > > b
> |> > > b
> |> > > b
> |> > > b
> |> > > b
> |> > > b
> |> > > b
> |> > > b
> |> > > b
> |> > > b
> |> > u
> |> > u
> |> > u
> |> > u
> |> > u
> |> > u
> |> > u
> |> > l
> |> > l
> |> > l
> |> > l
> |> > l
> |> > l
> |> > l
> |> > l
> |> > l
> |> > l
> |He does have an older boy named Michael, but Mikeys a bit of a freak,
> |considering that he's really only like 3, and was forcibly grown larger.
> |I think it would be a little twisted having Mikey find a girlfriend. ;-P
>
> Why? He might be a little on the simple side, but he must have gone
through
> puberty.....
Well ... yeah, but he went through puberty in a vat.
The boy is a cybermantic monster. He was built to be a killing machine, but
he still has all the emotional maturity of a little boy.
He's very much in that "icky girl" phase right now.
I suppose it might be fun to have Bull take Mikey to the park, and watch
some hookers try to pick him up though ... ;-)
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 00:48:32 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull? - Results
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Here's what it looks like ... Bull, you sure don't have many well wishers!
B
U
L
L
K
E
E
P
T
H
E
F
R
A
G
O
U
T
Y
A
D
A
M
N
C
H
E
A
T
E
R
!
Looks like way up on everybodies list is some sort of hideous disease, or
major health issue.
I'm of a mind to give Bull a little dose of HMVV ... this should also have
the added affect of putting a strain on his marriage, which looks to be the
number two most popular suggestion.
And as a finishing touch, I'll repeat a page from Vael's book, and lop off
and arm ... OK, I've done this a few times before to Bull, but the classics
are always good! ;-)
Thanks for all the help!
Hope I can return the favor.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:32:41 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: david lowe <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Saving the Team by Self-Sacrifice
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 5:16 PM 7/16/97, TopCat wrote:
>At 04:19 PM 7/16/97 -0500, Black Death wrote:
>>How many of you players have GMs and other players bitch about your
>>high level character?
>
>I bitch about over-powered characters all the time...
>
You know, I promised myself that I wouldn't get drawn into a "TopCat
discussion", but I have to say my peace. TopCat, I feel that you and I
would probably enjoy a similar style of SR game, but your "my style of game
is holier than thou" is getting old. Especially 20k a day of it. I may be
asking for trouble, but we all play games for different reasons and in
different styles, so just lay off when it comes to dissing on other peoples
games. Enough already, please.
D.
David R. Lowe (dlowe@****.com)
Photography/Graphic Design
"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby."
-Daffy Duck
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:21:25 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---TopCat wrote:
>
> Combat spells on the other hand: never run out of ammo, don't cost
a dime,
> don't have to mess with range or visibility,
Just to interject a little into the debate here. :o)
The BBB on page 130, under "Situation Modifiers" states:
"Standard injury modifiers, and cover and visibility modifiers apply
to spell casting. The harder it is to see a target, the harder it is
to hit is."
There are some optional range rules for LOS spells in the Grimmy (page
111). Plus some spells are touch requiring and limited range.
Fetish requiring spells (though agreeably not the norm) could also be
thought of as having an ammo restriction.
> won't jam or misfire
What determines the shotgun's misfire? If it's a roll of one's,
wouldn't the same roll have an affect on the spell casting? (Shadowrun
Companion, page 81, fleshes magical misfires out further.)
> don't care if the target has some cover or not,
Cover affects spellcasting T#'s. See my reference above.
> don't have to mess with the target's combat pool
No, but then shotgun's aren't affected by a magician's magic or
shielding pools.
And the biggie, somone shooting a shogun has yet to take drain for
using the weapon.
(The above two point are lame, I know but I had to point it out. :o)
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:43:33 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: david lowe <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Demon Magic - Spoilers for anyone in a ENEMY type game!!!!!
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:19 PM 7/16/97, Jaymz wrote:
>spioler space about the enemy
>#
>#
>#
>#
>#
>#
>#
>#
>#
>#
>#
>#
>#
>#
>#
>#
>#
>#
>#
>#
>#
>#
>#
>#| BUT, keep in mind, the two times (to my knowledge) that actual
>#|stats for THE ENEMY have been displayed, these guys were downright
>#|TERRIFYING!!! And I'm a GM who LOVES to torment and test his players!
>#
>#Well of COURSE they were. They were full blown horrors.
>#Even weaker horrors of Earthdawn'd be very nasty in shadowrun....
>
>where were they mentioned?
>what books? I don't believe I've seen them
>
Harlequins Back. Stats for Horrors and everything. Definitely nasty.
D.
David R. Lowe (dlowe@****.com)
Photography/Graphic Design
"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby."
-Daffy Duck
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 01:32:47 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: [OT] Audi?
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
>And my brother has NO navel at all.
>TRUTH!
Obvoiusly stolen but those in search of the ingredients to the ultimate
fuzzy navel. ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
In their final year, all Game Master students are required to take one semester
of Manical Laughter.
Spoof of the Far Side.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 16:26:50 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Black Death <ddmaster@**.NET>
Subject: Re: A Long road home...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Bull wrote:
>
> Ok... this may get strange, but bear with me...:]
>
> I was watching Gargoyles today, and I suddenly had a bit f a campign
> idea,
> partly inspired by the Avalon storyline from the cartoon. In a
> nutshell,
> when Goliath, Angela, and Alyssa leave Avalon in this funky little
> boat,
> they find that they can't go straight home. One of the characters on
> the
> island tells them "Avalon doesn't send you where you want to go, it
> sends
> you where you need to be."
>
> And so the characters spend half a season or so bouncing around
> different
> parts of the world, magically travelling through these mists, and
> having to
> solve problems, fight bad guys, or whatever before "Avalon" will let
> them
> leave. Of course, Goliath and Co. are the GOOD GUYS (tm) so they
> would
> never think of leaving before the job was done, so possibly they would
> be
> able to leave if they wanted. But for game purposes, when you have a
> bunch
> of selfish gamers and players, why would they help out anyone unless
> they
> HAD to to leave...:]
>
> So here's the basic plot idea, which I may or may not use...
>
> Shortly in the campign, once Queen Euphoria is done, They'll get to
> fight
> my version of the Steppenwulfs again. basically, the Wulfs are part
> gamg,
> part mad scientists private army in my game, and the players have run
> into
> them (and gotten their asses kicked by them) before.
>
> The Mad Scientist has stolen a Nuclear Bomb during some serios riots
> and
> gang wars that recently erupted in Seattle (Brought on by a
> combination of
> the events from Elven Fire as well as the Dunky Assasination), and
> will
> soon attempt to destroy the Reraku Arcology with it in a wild vengence
> scheme. The players are forced to stop him, and along the way they'll
> aquire a magical item called the "Phoenix Gate". During the climax pf
> this
> run, they find out that the Phoenix gate allows opens rifts in time
> and
> space, and they can put the nuke through a gate into space where it
> will
> detonate fairly harmlessly...:]
>
> (I have a Coyote Shaman and a Dragonslayer Idol Worshipper in the
> group, so
> coercion won;t be TOO hard... When Coyote or your Idol tell you it
> needs
> your help... <grin>)
>
> Anyways, the Phoenix Gate pulls them into it as well, and they get to
> spend
> several adventures getting dumped through time and space, doing my
> evil
> bidding. This allows me to do a couple things...
>
> A) It makes for a cool idea...
>
> B) I can screw with the players heads..
>
> C) Gee, hard to replace ammo/armor/etc in Medieval England, isn't it?
> :]
>
> and
>
> D) I can play with some ED stuff if I need to. :]
>
> I haven't fully decided yet, so it's just a rough idea... But if I
> worked
> it right, it could be a fun idea...
>
> Of course, teh gate only opens when the "job" is done, so the players
> are
> forced to do my bidding...:]
>
> Yeah, it smacks heavily of Sliders/Quantum Leap/Time bandits/Etc...
> but
> you know, I always liked those shows...:]
>
> ((I really wish the group that I was doing the Friday the 13th, the
> Series
> / Little Shop of Horrors runs with hadn't fallen apart... That really
> was
> a fun campign...:))
>
> Bull
I like your ideal of an adventure. I wished i was part of your group.
thought about running it in #Shadowrun-game??
--
http:/www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/3869
<BlkDeath> WA:: Request a kick on aisle 10. please
*** You were kicked from #Shadowrun by WildAngle
(Victim number 10 Aisle 10! Clear out! Contaminated
soy spilled!)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:49:32 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: david lowe <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Nukes vs. Horrors
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Ok, this may be an old topic, but bear with me. My players have managed to
let a major NPC get ahold of an Ares tactical nuke. (Well, it wasn't
exactly their falt, but try explaining that to the Ares harddudes).
Anyways, she plans to use it later in the game to get revenge,
unfourtunately, there will be a Horror in the vicinity when (and if) it
goes off. A major Horror. IYHOs, would it affect the Horror? I belive that,
since Horrors exist primarily on the Astral, that it would not affect them,
and the pain and suffering the nuke caused would actually 'feed' the
Horror. Comments, suggestions.
D.
David R. Lowe (dlowe@****.com)
Photography/Graphic Design
"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby."
-Daffy Duck
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 00:39:03 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Court Schuett <schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Demon Magic - Spoilers for anyone in a ENEMY type game!!!!!
In-Reply-To: <v01540b05aff36f3b5513@[140.174.162.210]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:43 PM 7/16/97 -0800, you wrote:
>At 11:19 PM 7/16/97, Jaymz wrote:
>>spioler space about the enemy
>>#
>>#
>>#
>>#
>>#
>>#
>>#
>>#
>>#
>>#
>>#
>>#
>>#
>>#
>>#
>>#
>>#
>>#
>>#
>>#
>>#
>>#
>>#
>>#| BUT, keep in mind, the two times (to my knowledge) that actual
>>#|stats for THE ENEMY have been displayed, these guys were downright
>>#|TERRIFYING!!! And I'm a GM who LOVES to torment and test his players!
>>#
>>#Well of COURSE they were. They were full blown horrors.
>>#Even weaker horrors of Earthdawn'd be very nasty in shadowrun....
>>
>>where were they mentioned?
>>what books? I don't believe I've seen them
>>
>
>Harlequins Back. Stats for Horrors and everything. Definitely nasty.
>
>D.
>
>David R. Lowe (dlowe@****.com)
I agree that they were nasty, but I thought they were just constructs.
Take a look at the similarities between the Crawlers, and Jethura (sp?)
Almost positive they are one in the same in which case, SR is in big
trouble. Cause they really messed up my group of pretty darn powerful PCs,
and our ED group can take several Jethura, null sweat.
-=Court
/* Court Schuett, a totally modern boy.
schuett@*****.ivcc.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If I was God no one would doubt it
We wouldn't need church to get
The mystery that we once knew
The something we forget
-Too Much Joy
***************************************************************************/
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:56:07 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: david lowe <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Audi?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 1:32 AM 7/17/97, NightLife wrote:
>Obvoiusly stolen but those in search of the ingredients to the ultimate
>fuzzy navel. ;-)
Chimney glass, Build to: Ice, 1 1/4 oz peach schnapps, fill w/oj. Hairy
Navel is the same, but add 3/4 oz Vodka. To make a killer Fuzzy Navel,
float Grand Mariner on top. Shit, I didn't tend bar for 8 years for nothing
you know...
D.
David R. Lowe (dlowe@****.com)
Photography/Graphic Design
"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby."
-Daffy Duck
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 01:49:14 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Nukes vs. Horrors
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Ok, this may be an old topic, but bear with me. My players have managed
to
> let a major NPC get ahold of an Ares tactical nuke. (Well, it wasn't
> exactly their falt, but try explaining that to the Ares harddudes).
> Anyways, she plans to use it later in the game to get revenge,
> unfourtunately, there will be a Horror in the vicinity when (and if) it
> goes off. A major Horror. IYHOs, would it affect the Horror? I belive
that,
> since Horrors exist primarily on the Astral, that it would not affect
them,
> and the pain and suffering the nuke caused would actually 'feed' the
> Horror. Comments, suggestions.
IMO it would greatly depend on just what Horror we're talking about.
Although in general I'm of the opinion that a nuke would hurt even a
horror.
Following along the lines that using elemental effects can cause damage in
spells, and you can't get a much more powerful elemental effect than a
nuke!
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 00:51:25 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:29 PM 7/16/97 -0700, Gregory wrote:
>TopCat wrote:
>> It seems pathetic to me that a character with an average Willpower is
>> considered to have a weak Willpower in his campaign and having a "weak"
>> Willpower is considered a roleplaying device in his campaign. If said
>> character is in serious danger simply because he isn't maxed out in all his
>> spell-targeted stats, then the power level of the game is way askew.
>I think you are being facetious here at best. Average willpower is
>defined over all the population of earth. Magicians are a subset of that
>population, and are to be expected to be different. Just as you would not
>expect to find an an average Ph.D (and note that many/most hermetics have
>an BA/MA equivalent) to have IQ 100 or an average pro athlete to run at 16
>minutes per mile, an average mage will have higher willpower. How much
>higher...well, that's where the question lies. I'd expect an average
>willpower of 4-5. Six would be uncommon, but not nearly as rare as amongst
>the mundane.
There are many PhD holders with average IQ's (IQ is a measure of how fast
you can grasp a given bit of knowledge, not a measure of what you know).
There are many pro athletes who would exceed the 16 minutes/mile mark, there
are many that would not. The average mage is just a person with the
capability to use magic. There would be proportionately as many mundanes
with a 6 Willpower as mages.
Also, I would agree with you that many/most mages do have PhD's. However,
very few/no shadowrunners would. You'd need a SIN to get a degree and you'd
be a registered mage, as well. Not too many shadow-types willing to go
through all of that.
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:55:05 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---Caric wrote:
>
> NightLife wrote:
> >
> > spoiler
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
> @
>
> > >What I'd really like to see is your suggestions for what else I
can to do
> > >torture the Ork Decker.
<snip>
> Not bad, but how about this one. It's slightly evil so bear with me.
> Now we have all seen Bull talk about how the magic rules are his week
> spot, and i'll assume that Tinner has read the novel i'm gonna refer
to.
> (I think it was the one with Dirk Montgomery in Hawaii, but I might
have
> just made that up) Anyway there's this novel where a troll becomes a
> bear shaman I believe, and at the end of the book all of his
cyberware
> gets pushed out of his body. Bull IMHO acts like a dog shaman, make
him
> one. :)
The novel in question is Nosferatu. I won't say more to avoid novel
spoilers.
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 23:02:45 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---"Steven A. Tinner" wrote:
>
> I'm looking forward to what sort of evil this list can truly come up
with.
> Oh yeah, don't bother suggesting that I glue his ass cheeks
together, cause
> I already did that! ;-)
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
S
O
B
U
L
L
K
E
E
P
Y
O
U
R
O
R
K
N
O
S
E
O
U
T
!
Ok, Tinner two simple questions and you take it from there:
Ever see the TV series "Nowhere Man?"
Or how about "Two?"
If neither rings a bell, just ask and I'll fill you in on some good
EGM plot lines. ;o)
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 01:03:53 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:21 PM 7/16/97 -0700, Loki wrote:
>---TopCat wrote:
>> Combat spells on the other hand: never run out of ammo, don't cost
>> a dime, don't have to mess with range or visibility,
>The BBB on page 130, under "Situation Modifiers" states:
>"Standard injury modifiers, and cover and visibility modifiers apply
>to spell casting. The harder it is to see a target, the harder it is
>to hit is."
>There are some optional range rules for LOS spells in the Grimmy (page
>111). Plus some spells are touch requiring and limited range.
>Fetish requiring spells (though agreeably not the norm) could also be
>thought of as having an ammo restriction.
Agreed, I was still half-asleep at the time of the posting (I keep really
weird hours) and got on a good rant... it couldn't be helped.
>> won't jam or misfire
>What determines the shotgun's misfire? If it's a roll of one's,
>wouldn't the same roll have an affect on the spell casting? (Shadowrun
>Companion, page 81, fleshes magical misfires out further.)
True, but until the SC came out there was no rule for this. It is also
stated as an optional rule.
>> don't have to mess with the target's combat pool
>No, but then shotgun's aren't affected by a magician's magic or
>shielding pools.
Already mentioned that... here's the quote:
"Before you say "well, spells could have to go through shielding", shotguns
could have to go through hardened armor (null effect). Or they could have
to go through a barrier. Or they could miss. Oh yeah, and it doesn't
require an initiate to be able to wear armor or have a barrier cast or to be
missed."
Any and all armor will affect a shotgun (often severely, hardened totally)
and it's a hell of a lot cheaper than hiring a mage for shielding dice 24
hours a day. Also, shotguns don't attack Willpower. Granted, a
non-initiate can use spell defense dice, so that'd be cheaper than an
initiate to hire for protection. Still a WHOLE lot more expensive than
armor or even a bodyguard to take the bullet for you.
>And the biggie, somone shooting a shogun has yet to take drain for
>using the weapon.
And the caster of said combat spell doesn't take any drain either...
>(The above two point are lame, I know but I had to point it out. :o)
Agreed ;^D
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 23:18:49 -0700
Reply-To: gdeych@********.att.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gregory Deych <gdeych@********.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
TopCat wrote:
>
> There are many PhD holders with average IQ's (IQ is a measure of how fast
> you can grasp a given bit of knowledge, not a measure of what you know).
> There are many pro athletes who would exceed the 16 minutes/mile mark, there
> are many that would not. The average mage is just a person with the
> capability to use magic. There would be proportionately as many mundanes
> with a 6 Willpower as mages.
I'm guessing all the ones with merely average willpower have died from
excessive drain. :)
--
gdeych@********.att.net
Please remove "NOSPAM" from the e-mail address before
answering.
His eyes were eggs of unstable crystal, vibrating with a
frequency whose name was rain and the sound of trains,
suddenly sprouting in a humming forest of hair-fine glass
spines.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:09:32 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "SHANE J. WINZAR" <s702399@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Dragons at the end of an age
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
What exactly happens to dragons (greater or lesser) at the end of the age
(read magic cycle) , once the magic falls below the threshold wouldn't
all magical creature die? wither? ummm do the dragons fly of to a
metaplane with high magic for the duration of the low magic age or do the
hibernate or something else? thanx in advance,
Shane Winzar aka Tamino
"Look! the Angel of Death is going a funny green colour...again" -Lady
Jestyr, our GM for Tales from the Floating Vagabond.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 01:22:59 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:54 AM 7/17/97 +1000, LJ wrote:
>> Panther Cannon? I'd have a field day with that. I call that severe
>> powergamer, btw.
>Oh, be reasonable. It's a FASA published item - that means the
>production team must have envisaged a situation where it would be
>appropriate. Sure, carrying everywhere you GO is powergaming (and
>begging for a jail term) but the item in and of itself isn't munchy -
>it's how and when you use it.
18D at mammoth ranges is pretty much a powergamer's wet dream with sugar on
top. It isn't munchy as it is in the rules, but I called it powergaming.
It's like I've said to my players "you can have anything, just expect
consequences if you choose to act or purchase unwisely". The better the
item, the more likely someone will be to attempt to steal it. Also,
crimelords wouldn't be too happy knowing that some schmoe down the street
(in their teritory no less) is storing heavy artillery.
>> I've never said that players should have 2's for stats and skills. Simply
>> that they shouldn't have to have 6's.
>They shouldn't HAVE to have 6's, but you sledge anyone who's GOT 6's. By
>your way of thinking, apparently a 6 in anything is a sign of
>munchkin-ness.
No, I don't sledge anyone who has 6's. I "sledge" any game which requires
one to have 6's. A 6 attribute is no sign of a munchkin, it's merely the
pinnacle of human ability.
>Okay, how about my sorceror adept/rigger. After being played for QUITE A
>WHILE, she had (I think) Cha 5, Qui 6, Int 6... everything else was 4 or
>below. Does that make her a munchkin, cause she had two stats at 6? (Oh
>yeah, and that was WITH bioware, too...)
I'd probably go off on the character from a powergaming aspect, but I
haven't seen the character, nor have I seen how your particular game is
played, nor have I seen how long your character has been played so I can't
truly make that call. No munchkinism in those stats that I can see, though...
>And I ask you - the cyberware and bioware exist to make an average
>character absolutely beefy. Does this mean FASA are all munchkins and
>powergamers, since they created the stuff?
Nope, nor did I ever say such. Come now LJ, you know me better than that.
I've said that 6 is the pinnacle of human attributes. This can be enhanced
through technological (cyber-/bio- ware), magical (increase attribute spells
& physad powers), and racial (racial mods) means. Doing so is not
munchkinous unless it goes beyond the bounds of the game (creating a
super-troll which gets +19 to body and +22 to strength, but has to have a 1
intelligence is munchkinous). It can, however, be powergamed. I'll be glad
to show some examples thereof should you wish...
>I think your vision of SR is significantly different from mine. That's
>fine, I respect your right to hold your own interpretations and play the
>way you like. Please extend us the same courtesy.
As I've said before and will doubtlessly have to say again, play as you
want. Just don't try to state that powergaming is the norm in the game and
everything will be just fine. Also, don't try to accomodate powergaming by
altering the rules to demand such a practice. As far as I know, you haven't
done so. You've missed my point often by a considerable degree, but
hopefully this post will cure that.
As to my vision of SR... it's heavy on the roleplaying and light on the
combat. Numbers matter, but not near as much as they do in most campaigns.
Good decision-making and proper use of available resources and contacts is
what defines the success of the runner team.
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 23:35:03 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Spike wrote:
>
> |
> |NightLife said on 2:16/16 Jul 97...
> |
> |> spoiler
> |>
> |>
> |>
> |>
> |>
> |>
> |>
> |>
> |>
> |>
> |>
> |>
> |>
> |>
> |> Have him wake up and find his whole life was a VR simulation.
> |
> |Can you say "despair squid"? :)
>
> The problem is, how many here will get that reference?
Heh. Not me. ;)
How about Dr. Hilary Langstrom?
<grin>
---
--
Dvixen Code-word : Weevil-chuck. dvixen@********.com
"And I thought First Ones were rare." - Ivanova - Babylon 5
First High Priest of the Church of the Squooshy Ball.
Vodka corrupts. Abolut Vodka corrupts absolutely.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 02:26:12 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Nukes vs. Horrors
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:49:32 -0800"
<v01540b06aff36f9b6bb3@[140.174.162.210]>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
You wrote:
> Ok, this may be an old topic, but bear with me. My players have managed to
> let a major NPC get ahold of an Ares tactical nuke. (Well, it wasn't
> exactly their falt, but try explaining that to the Ares harddudes).
> Anyways, she plans to use it later in the game to get revenge,
> unfourtunately, there will be a Horror in the vicinity when (and if) it
> goes off. A major Horror. IYHOs, would it affect the Horror? I belive that,
> since Horrors exist primarily on the Astral, that it would not affect them,
> and the pain and suffering the nuke caused would actually 'feed' the
> Horror. Comments, suggestions.
Nothing wrong with throwing nukes into SR. :) Nothing at all. Now, Horrors
who are Astral entities would not be affected except by all the crap dredged up
in the astral plane from the detonation. Horrors with physical forms would be
blown to bits, end of fragging list. Horrors can only feed upon pain they
themselves cause, so it would help them not a whit if they survived.
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 23:27:13 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---"Faux Pas (Thomas)" wrote:
>
> At 01:44 AM 7/16/97 -0400, Steven A. Tinner whispered:
> >Just remember, I might use some of these, so be sure to use some
spoiler
> >spaces!!!
>
> okay
> b
> u
> l
> l
> b
> u
> l
> l
> b
> u
> l
> l
> b
> u
> l
> l
> b
> u
> l
> l
>
> Run the adventure "Ghost Toasties" from the Ghostbusters RPG.
>
> But seriously, have the real Bull show up. Rak's been playing
Bull's clone
> and the real Bull is pissed.
This kind of touches on my reference to the TV Series "Two." Except in
the series an identical twin finds he and his brother were seperated
at birth. One got the good life with the real parents, money and upper
class. The other got welfare, troubled childhood and so on. The bitter
twin plots revenge. Before he can switch lives he's diagnosed with an
embolism that's due to go at anytime. Thus, since he can't step into
the good life and have time to enjoy it, he arranges for his brother
to take on his life. A life that's a trail of crimes, enemies,
nastiness and a constant hunt by the FBI and so on. All the time the
"bad" twin shadows the "good" twin, gloating at his suffering and
doing what he can to make things worse.
Does this make any sense to those who haven't seen the show?
Anything you could use Tinner?
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 01:32:49 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:18 PM 7/16/97 -0700, Gregory wrote:
>TopCat wrote:
>> There are many PhD holders with average IQ's (IQ is a measure of how fast
>> you can grasp a given bit of knowledge, not a measure of what you know).
>> There are many pro athletes who would exceed the 16 minutes/mile mark, there
>> are many that would not. The average mage is just a person with the
>> capability to use magic. There would be proportionately as many mundanes
>> with a 6 Willpower as mages.
>I'm guessing all the ones with merely average willpower have died from
>excessive drain. :)
No, but they might use other things to help get the drain code down or
specialize in low-drain spells or use foci for extra dice to resist drain.
Such a thing would be very common, I would think.
The average PC mage probably has a 6 average Willpower. For every troll
made there's a dwarf to balance it out. For every character with a 3
there's another with a 9 because he uses 1.5 times racial max as the "true"
max for stats. Powergamed? Sure it is, but it's still well within the
rules (or optional rules as the case may be) so it isn't munchkin.
Min/maxxed stats aren't a requirement to success. They're a crutch for
someone who can walk perfectly fine otherwise. Some people like their
crutch, it makes it easier for them to walk because they don't have to put
any effort into it. Some people can see beyond the crutch and toss the
thing away. I tossed my crutches a long time ago when I retired TopCat...
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 01:37:49 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:52 PM 7/16/97 -0400, Victor wrote:
>TopCat said:
>>> Caric's in my PBEM, and he doesn't evidence a 'munchie' attitude I see
>>>bandied about here [though I am wondering about that Panther Cannon :-].
>>Panther Cannon? I'd have a field day with that. I call that severe
>>powergamer, btw.
>Kohl replys:
> In all fairness to Caric, he doesn't have a Panther Cannon. He's having
>a tough time trying to get a cheap Korean knockoff pistol. I meant it as a
>joke [just a LITTLE one :-].
Ok, fair enough... but I *would* have a field day if any of my players
bought and/or used a PAC. Heh. :)
> You'd be an interresting 'opponent' to have a beer with and argue over a
>variety of things, until we both forgot what we were arguing about. [There's
>a compliment in there...somewhere.]
Ahh, drink and debate. Now that sounds good. Most people find that, when
they get to know me, my views on many things are really interesting and
realistic if a bit stubborn. Also, most people find that, when they get to
drinking with me, I'm a lush. ;)
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 02:43:02 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Charles R Joseph <arcaneacuity@****.COM>
Subject: Addiction
I just started playing in a new campaign run by my favorite SR
gamemaster. Since this was an opportunity to make a new character, I
decided I'd try something a little different from the more noble
characters I ususally play (using the word noble loosely...after all, my
last character ate a cat in the deckers livingroom, but at least he was
neat about it, putting down plastic and all, and caught a stray rather
than eating the deckers feline).
My new character was a fledgling mage who was phsychologically
shattered and turned to drugs and decking. He's both a mage and a
decker, but he sucks at both (Sorcery 2, Decking 2, no conjuring or side
bits like that). For the most part, he'd rather indulge in BTLs or more
chemical drugs.
My problem is that while I'm all too familiar modern drug
culture, I'm a bit in the dark about how BTLs/Drugs are handled in
Shadowrun. What's available? What are the short term/long term effects
of addiction? Do they affect magic-use?
Thanks in advance.
Winter Wolfe Arcane
arcaneacuity@****.com
"When our hatred is violent, it sinks us even beneath those we hate."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 02:27:27 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Charles R Joseph <arcaneacuity@****.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OOC?
Comments: To: hardware@*******.ab.ca
On Sun, 6 Jul 1997 22:23:57 +0000 Shane Courtrille
<hardware@*******.DATANET.AB.CA> writes:
>Then you really do not understand the amount of money WOTC is
>bringing in through sales of Magic, and now Legend of the five rings,
>and soon TSR items. WOTC has already bought TSR and then another
>company. Money is not the issue for them.. they are planning on
>taking over the people that make Warhammer.. which is a pretty
>massive company...
What other company? I haven't been paying atttention lately.
TSR was an easy buy because the company was bankrupt.
The chances of ANYONE taking over GDW are very, very low. GDW
are the closest thing in the gaming industry to nazis, aggressively
crushing competing companies. I don't see them selling out to a softy
company like WotC.
>most people give them a year before they'll finally get it...
>Shane Courtrille - hardware@*******.ab.ca
If they did, I'd consider it an act of heroism on the part of
WotC...or of self-corruption. GSW is on my list of top five most evil
game companies.
Winter Wolfe Arcane
arcaneacuity@****.com
"When our hatred is violent, it sinks us even beneath those we hate."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 03:08:02 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OOC?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> The chances of ANYONE taking over GDW are very, very low. GDW
> are the closest thing in the gaming industry to nazis, aggressively
> crushing competing companies. I don't see them selling out to a softy
> company like WotC.
Umm ... I think you're referring to GM - Games Workshop.
The UK miniatures people right?
GDW was Game Designers Workshop, makers of Traveller, Twilight 2000, the
excellent Challenge Magazine, and the SR ripoff Dark Conspiracy.
They also happen to be defunct, bankrupt and gone.
And since we're all bandying about rumors like a bunch of old maids
gossiping, rumor has it that GW IS in trouble, due to their EVIL pricing
practices.
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 03:33:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Charles R Joseph <arcaneacuity@****.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OOC?
On Thu, 17 Jul 1997 03:08:02 -0400 "Steven A. Tinner"
<bluewizard@*****.COM> writes:
>> The chances of ANYONE taking over GDW are very, very low.
>>GDW are the closest thing in the gaming industry to nazis, aggressively
>> crushing competing companies. I don't see them selling out to a
>>softy company like WotC.
>
>Umm ... I think you're referring to GM - Games Workshop.
>The UK miniatures people right?
Oops...yeah...I almost always get those names confused.
>GDW was Game Designers Workshop, makers of Traveller, Twilight 2000,
>the excellent Challenge Magazine, and the SR ripoff Dark Conspiracy.
>They also happen to be defunct, bankrupt and gone.
Yup...life sucks, doesn't it?
>And since we're all bandying about rumors like a bunch of old maids
>gossiping, rumor has it that GW IS in trouble, due to their EVIL
>pricing
>practices.
Yeah...they are catching flak, though I'm not sure how serious it
is. I do know that some of their practices are in the grey area of
legality, and for the most part just plain underhanded. That's another
reason I doubt anyone would want to buy them...who would want to buy a
company with that much legal baggage?
Winter Wolfe Arcane
arcaneacuity@****.com
"When our hatred is violent, it sinks us even beneath those we hate."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 03:44:05 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OOC?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 02:27 AM 7/17/97 -0400, Charles R Joseph wrote these timeless words:
> What other company? I haven't been paying atttention lately.
>TSR was an easy buy because the company was bankrupt.
> The chances of ANYONE taking over GDW are very, very low. GDW
>are the closest thing in the gaming industry to nazis, aggressively
>crushing competing companies. I don't see them selling out to a softy
>company like WotC.
>
Actually, as a small note here... It isn;t GDW, it's GW... Games Workshop. And while I
seriously expect GW to run into marketing problems within the year (They're REALLY making
some bad marketing moves, such as hideous price hikes, self distributorship, and now they
require game store to buy specific blister packs in lots of 6 (as in, 6 High Elf Mages).
This is REALLY making things difficult for smaller game stores), I doubt they'll ever sell
out. The company is STILL making money hand over fist, and their mainstream games
(Warhammer and 40K) have hit an all time high in popularity in the US.
GDW, on the other hand was Games Designers Workshop. They put out smaller games like Dark
Conspiracy, and even published some novels, such as Stackpole's Dark Conspiracy novels.
They went out of business a few years ago when the gaming market started to falter, though
most of their products have since found their way into other companies hands...
And While I can buy the fact that WOTC has their eyes on others in the business,
especially GW, I doubt that they will manage to get the companies. If these companies
were "public", with stocks and such, I could see a hostile takeover/buyout
taking place, but as things stand now...
I also know WHY WOTC wants a company like GW. Miniatures. They have the largest card
game, and have recently acquired the dying giant of the RPG world. Now they want a
different branch. miniatures, and more specifically, a Miniatures Game.
This may also be the reason they are interested in FASA, if they truly are. Battletech.
It's a game that they don;t have yet. But i don;t think they'll get it. their best bet,
if they want a Mini's company, is Ral Partha. RP has lost a LOT over the years to GW and
the other newer companies. The standard in Fanatasy Mini's has grown from the old 25mm
scale, which RP still makes minis for, to the larger 28-30mm used by GW's Citadel
Miniatures, Marauder Miniatures (I believe an old subdivision of Citadel), Heartbreaker,
and most of the newer companies. Also, compared to most of GW's mini's, RP's are lacking
a LOT of detail...
Of course, they're still a good deal cheaper...:]
Anyways, That's my 2 bits on the whole situation, yet again...;]
Bull-the-revealing-just-how-many-damned-hobbies-he-has-Ork-Decker
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 02:59:19 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John Dukes <dukes@*******.NET>
Subject: Define "munchkin"
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I would like to have a clear definition of a "munchkin". Is munchkin is
defined by a players behavior or by his stats, skills, and gear? I've always
found that Shadowrun generally balances things pretty well. If you are very
good at one thing, you are not very good at others. The guy with 4 skills at
6 will be VERY good in his areas but will have trouble when he needs one he
doesnt have. The guy with 8 skills at 3 will be less likely to be caught in
a situation where he doesnt have the relevant skill. The system should keep
things balanced, so I dont see how you can call the guy with high skill
levels a "munchkin".
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 01:59:42 +0000
Reply-To: hardware@*******.ab.ca
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <hardware@*******.datanet.ab.ca>
From: Shane Courtrille <hardware@*******.DATANET.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OOC?
In-Reply-To: <19970717.024305.7390.0.arcaneacuity@****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> On Sun, 6 Jul 1997 22:23:57 +0000 Shane Courtrille
> <hardware@*******.DATANET.AB.CA> writes:
> >Then you really do not understand the amount of money WOTC is
> >bringing in through sales of Magic, and now Legend of the five rings,
> >and soon TSR items. WOTC has already bought TSR and then another
> >company. Money is not the issue for them.. they are planning on
> >taking over the people that make Warhammer.. which is a pretty
> >massive company...
>
> What other company? I haven't been paying atttention lately.
> TSR was an easy buy because the company was bankrupt.
<snip>
> crushing competing companies. I don't see them selling out to a softy
> company like WotC.
WOTC bought out AEG, who AFAIK own'ed Shadis magazine, and Legend of
the 5 Rings which is another fairly large card game.. biggest
competition Magic had at least... and if you think WotC is a softly..
*chuckle* I betcha they said the same thing about Microsoft when it
first started :)
Shane Courtrille - hardware@*******.ab.ca
Being in love... What a trip...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:16:14 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Dan Everett <kender@********.ATT.NET>
Subject: Sorry....
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I know you must hate it when this question pops up but...
How do I unsubscribe?
Thanks.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 01:43:26 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Sorry....
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Dan Everett wrote:
>
> I know you must hate it when this question pops up but...
> How do I unsubscribe?
>
> Thanks.
This has been sent off list.
--
Dvixen Code-word : Weevil-chuck. dvixen@********.com
"This is the type of conversation that can only end in a gunshot."
Hi, my name is John, and I'm a closet lurker.
Been there, done that, got the tshirt, wore it out. Now what do I wear?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 03:42:54 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: SLARP game?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="------------B76AC4F50870B6C7DFFF6D68"
--------------B76AC4F50870B6C7DFFF6D68
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
hey anybody (Bull) know if there is going to be a SLARP game going on
anytime soon? Haven't read the SLARP rules, Don't know what SLARP is,
Go to Bull's SLARP page at
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/slarp1.html it sound great,
but I haven't found a SLARP group yet, please help!
Caun :>
P.S. to everyone involved in making the rules for SLARPS, Thanks, can't
wait to try them out!
--------------B76AC4F50870B6C7DFFF6D68
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML>
hey anybody (Bull) know if there is going to be a SLARP game going on anytime
soon? Haven't read the SLARP rules, Don't know what SLARP is, Go
to Bull's SLARP page at <A
HREF="http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/slarp1html">http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/slarp1.html</A>;
it sound great, but I haven't found a SLARP group yet, please help!
<P>Caun :>
<P>P.S. to everyone involved in making the rules for SLARPS, Thanks, can't
wait to try them out!</HTML>
--------------B76AC4F50870B6C7DFFF6D68--
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 11:14:38 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Spell types (was Re: Centering vs Penalties)
In-Reply-To: <33CCFC4E.28E1@********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Caric said on 9:52/16 Jul 97...
> How did it explain it in first edition?
Probably worse ;)
> Spike? Loki?
Hey, I started playing SR with first edition too you know! :)
One of the biggest problems with SR1 is the way in which all spellcasting
rules have been thrown together. There's still a piece of paper in my
falling apart SR1 book with a step-by-step spellcasting guide... Ah, here
it is, page 81: "When casting an area-effect spell, the magician rolls
his dice for his Success Test only once, but Target Numbers may vary for
each character within the effect radius. Count the successes separately
for each target within the radius." It then continues with an example of
Neddy casting a Fireball against three targets, one in the open, one
behind a low wall, and one who just dove through a window. The second
targets gets a +2 for the wall, and the third a +4 for the window.
<whiskey commercial voice>Nothing's changed, really...</whiskey commercial
voice>
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 11:14:38 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Despair squid [OT] (was Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?)
In-Reply-To: <1952.199707161025@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Spike said on 11:25/16 Jul 97...
> |Can you say "despair squid"? :)
>
> The problem is, how many here will get that reference?
There's you, there's LJ (I'd be surprised if she didn't get this), and
there must be more...
It would be a very nice way of turning a bogged-down SR game into a
sci-fi campaign, though. Although basing it on RD may not be all that
bright an idea. Come to think of it, though, maybe I can dig up some set
of SF RPG rules somewhere and pull this on my group one day... Make them
employees of Jupiter Mining Corp and all, just on a different ship.
Lady Jestyr said on 22:26/16 Jul 97...
> Me! ME! Me! <desperately waiting for Season 7... :(
I'm hoping we won't need to wait as long for season 8 as for season 7 (and
that #8 will be slightly better...)
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 11:14:38 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Spell types (was Re: Centering vs Penalties)
In-Reply-To: <1943.199707161024@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Spike said on 11:24/16 Jul 97...
> |Might I point out that that doesn't mean anything...
>
> Oh, come on Gurth....
> You *ARE* the unofficial shadowrun guru and all round know-it-all here
> y'know....
>
> :)
BTW, Damion is back, and there's a reason he's got more or less the same
line in his .sig as I do...
> There's no need to be bashful.....
I'm not bashful, I'm just pointing out the fact that I don't claim to make
any officially-(i.e. FASA-)endorsed rules interpretations, before somebody
gets a fit over that.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 11:14:38 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Memory lapses (was Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?)
In-Reply-To: <30D615BED@**.opp.psu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Brett Borger said on 9:09/16 Jul 97...
[spoiler space removed because IMO it doesn't have much to do with
ideas for killing Bull anymore]
> I want one of my characters to discover that someone/thing has been
> wiping his memory for several hours each night. BUT, I want the
> character to realize that he had figured this out before, but each
> time he forgets that he found out. The adventure begins when he gets
> the clues, and has a hint of what has happened (or rather what he
> doesn't know happened). The cahracter then has to:
> 1) Figure out how to prevent it...knowing that he had tried before
> and failed.
> 2) Figure out who is doing it and why.
>
> Sounds a bit like a bad Star Trek episode crossed with the Twilight
> Zone, don't it?
This sounds like something I saw in a movie or TV show (or maybe a book)
once. I can't remember which one, unfortunately, but I'm pretty sure I've
seen it before.
If the player is up to it, this could be some very interesting roleplaying
for everyone involved. Especially if you let the character experience one
of these memory failures when he's halfway through the adventure...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 11:14:38 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: [OT] Fish & Chips (Was Re: Hacking)
In-Reply-To: <1928.199707161021@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Spike said on 11:21/16 Jul 97...
> |I don't want to stereotype, but the place to go if you want really good
> |chips is Belgium...
>
> They don't do the Mayonaise thing there do they???
Not just there, but here too :)
> Bleugh!
The only way to eat chips is with mayonaise or with peanut sauce...
> Also, chippies in an area can vary in quality wildly.
> In one street in Oldham there're 3 chippies.
> 2 are quite good, but the THIRD????
Same here. At least five places where you can buy chips in maybe 200
meters of high street, and while some are okay, one has a reputation for
bad quality (so much that the only people who seem to buy anything there
are tourists. Killing off a few of them won't hurt anyone :)
Michael Broadwater said on 9:00/16 Jul 97...
> Can we kill this thread? Two reasons:
>
> A). this is hugely off topic, and doesn't seem to be moving even close to
> topical.
This is the last post I'll make on this subject. Promise :)
> b). everytime I come into work in the morning and read my mail, you guys
> make me starved thinking about fish and chips. And since I live in the
> US (and Quincy, IL, which makes it even worse) there's little to no
> chance I'll get to have any.
Make some yourself... Cut some patatoes and chuck them into oil of about
180 degrees (Celsius, that is). There's slightly more to it than that, but
it shouldn't be too hard... :)
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 03:02:49 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---TopCat wrote:
>
> > Loki wrote:
> >What determines the shotgun's misfire? If it's a roll of one's,
> >wouldn't the same roll have an affect on the spell casting?
(Shadowrun
> >Companion, page 81, fleshes magical misfires out further.)
>
> True, but until the SC came out there was no rule for this. It is
also
> stated as an optional rule.
Even before the SC came out and clarified the idea of magical
misfires, didn't the Rule of One's apply to spell casting tests as it
did to any other? I had always said that all-one's is all-one's on
any success test. I didn't need the Companion to tell me that a mage
rolling one's on a spell casting was an oops.
Also, I didn't think the Rule of One's was optional. Granted the
fleshing out of magical misfires as presented in SC is further
clarification on the possibilities. What I'm trying to get at is B&W
rules per BBB means an all-ones roll is a botch whether shooting a
shotgun or casting powerbolt.
BBB, page 32:
"If ALL the dice rolled for a test come up 1's, it means that the
character has made a disasterous mistake."
Are you saying that until SC was released this didn't apply to the
casting of a combat spell? Also, looking at page 81 of the Companion,
it says that the Magical Misfires rules as listed are a "Rule of One's
variant." This would lead me again to believe that the all-one's
misfire had always applied to spell casting as it would to any other
test.
Then that's just MHO.
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:57:30 GMT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Shadowrun ML demon <shadowrn-ml@*******.hanse.de>"
<shadowrn-ml@*******.HANSE.DE>
Organization: Nightmare on Coin Street
Subject: [SR3] Things that always annoyed you in SR2....
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hi Everyone !
It occured to me that there were several things in SR2 that were
annoying because it was just plain stupid or you happened to know more
about the topic than the designers of the game... so let's collect
things that are worth being changed here.
1.) White Phosphorous Damage Code:
Giving White Phosphorous a damage level of "L" is pretty
stupid. A person who gets burned would have third grade burns
within fractions of a second and there is no way he could be saved
today (although there might be one in the future... but only with
MASSIVE treatment within really short time) and he would be so totally
shocked from the first moment that he sure as hell would not think
clear enough how to get rid of it... WP is something REALLY
nasty. Against Vehicles it is pretty damn effective, as well. If they
aren't totally sealed they will suck in the flames and simply cook
their passengers... so increasing the damage level to "S" (at least)
would be a good idea.
2.) Description of Thermographic sight:
It always claims that with IR you could only see rough shapes or big
objects that differ a lot in temperature... this was true for the
IR cameras years ago, yes, but have a look at that new IR camera they
just built, this gives you an example of how the world would look in
IR. Even a simple window (in the shadow, not been touched for a long
time) looks like a one coloured rainbow in IR just due to microscopic
differences in the material. They can SEE leaks in water pipes 2
meters below a street... the IR spectrum is about 4 times as wide as
the usual visible light and spotting differences of 0.1 degrees is as
easy as seeing the difference between dark and light green... taking
this into account and combining it with the fact that NOTHING has
exactly one temperature for more than a few square centimeters (and
that would be a LOT) PLUS the three dimensional view of the
(meta-)human eye, a person with IR would spot pretty much anything a
person in the usual spectrum would. If it weren't for heat traces in
the air and the like, you'd probably see much more.
The modifier for natural/technical IR should be increased though. Just
imagine: You "translate" that big IR spectrum into the usual visible
light spectrum so the brain of the user can access the information:
This means he loses a factor 4 in details against someone with natural
vision.
O.k. - enough ranting about this, but I just wanted to have it said
once...
These are two things that always annoyed me because they are so far
off from reality... anyone else has got things that he finds annoying
(range of guns is one thing that comes to my mind here) ?
Later,
Georg
- --
Georg C. F. Greve <greve@*******.hanse.de>
http://porter.desy.de/~greve/
"People who fight may lose. People who do not
fight have already lost." -- Bertold Brecht
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: cp850
Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.4, an Emacs/PGP interface
iQCVAwUBM83siFZXgZXDxqJtAQFx/AP+M720lOPc5hD1Qo2Jr9huDlsNDDCx3gSL
LKRAj/PeviM7Jfey0BIkSBC0P4KDD+WHHp4i8+hQ92GWqnJ/LuF5hkFJ4/imsZqA
rZrXQwM8JwtRfT9xGgQHsUZ5vIxp4boT5DH0y7sJCTQpS9NpylbGlWDxVC2y2exe
hch4ZvfxjW4=
=jCoG
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 05:29:36 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Black Death <ddmaster@**.NET>
Subject: Gaming Conventions
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Is there a site that list gaming conventions and their location on the
net? If so then where is it?
PS:: Bull-the-leave-you-hanging-Ork hurry up with Quicksilver Lightning
Chapter 4+. I like it but you left me hanging.
--
http:/www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/3869
<BlkDeath> WA:: Request a kick on aisle 10. please
*** You were kicked from #Shadowrun by WildAngle
(Victim number 10 Aisle 10! Clear out! Contaminated
soy spilled!)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:39:43 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: A Long road home...
In-Reply-To: <33CD3C9A.ED6EFA62@**.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Black Death said on 16:26/16 Jul 97...
[six screens of snippage]
> I like your ideal of an adventure. I wished i was part of your group.
>
> thought about running it in #Shadowrun-game??
Black Death, trim your posts! It is VERY annoying to have to skim through
a six-screen post and then finding two lines plus a .sig tagged on at the
end, not to mention it wastes bandwidth like hell. Proper quoting
procedures are outlined in the FAQ, and I suggest you (and everyone else
who is thinking about replying like this) read them right now.
You could have just done it like this:
Bull wrote:
>
> Ok... this may get strange, but bear with me...:]
>
> I was watching Gargoyles today, and I suddenly had a bit f a campign
> idea,
I like your ideal of an adventure. I wished i was part of your group.
thought about running it in #Shadowrun-game??
followed by your .sig. You would have gotten the same point across without
needing 3310 bytes of quoted text for it.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:39:43 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Dragons at the end of an age
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970717160311.21784A-100000@*****.student.gu.edu.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
SHANE J. WINZAR said on 16:09/17 Jul 97...
> What exactly happens to dragons (greater or lesser) at the end of the age
> (read magic cycle) , once the magic falls below the threshold wouldn't
> all magical creature die? wither? ummm do the dragons fly of to a
> metaplane with high magic for the duration of the low magic age or do the
> hibernate or something else? thanx in advance,
Not sure, but this is from Ehran's speed to the YET:
"Traditionally, the Threshold Level has been set as the date of the
awakening of the first Great Dragon on the upswing and the hibernation of
the last Great Dragon on the down swing. The average time between
Threshold Levels is approximately 5,200 years."
From that, it looks like dragons go into hibernation somewhere, though
where exactly isn't mentioned.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:39:43 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Spell types (was Re: Centering vs Penalties)
In-Reply-To: <19970717032911.8202.rocketmail@*****.rocketmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Loki said on 20:29/16 Jul 97...
> Ergo, if the casting mage rolled 3, 3, 4, 5, 5, 5, 7, 8 with Power
> Bolt. This means he has 8 successes off the elven decker (primary
> target) with the body of 3. However, that does mean he gets the same 8
> successes against the mercs with body 6 (as Keith had been
> suggesting)...on them he only has 2 successes.
>
> That better? :o)
A bit, but it looks like you're contradicting yourself now, by first
saying the caster has 8 successes against the merc, and then saying he has
only 2 :)
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:39:43 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Define "munchkin"
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970717025606.2d0772f0@***alex1.linknet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
John Dukes said on 2:59/17 Jul 97...
> I would like to have a clear definition of a "munchkin". Is munchkin is
> defined by a players behavior or by his stats, skills, and gear?
Both, but mostly by the player. Munchkins want to make as powerful a
character as possible, and don't mind bending or breaking rules to do it.
There's a distinct difference with a powergamer, who also wants to create
a powerful character, but powergamers tend to stay within the rules.
For example, a character wearing milspec armor and carrying a gyro-mounted
Vanquisher minigun into combat with two gangers would probably be a
powergamer.
A character with powered milspec armor that adds 10 to his Quickness and
+5D6 to his Reaction, which has been magic-proofed so no magic can affect
him, and who is firing special armor-piercing EX explosive rounds with an
orichalcum jacket and a FAB core from the Vanquisher is probably a
munchkin.
> I've always found that Shadowrun generally balances things pretty well.
> If you are very good at one thing, you are not very good at others. The
> guy with 4 skills at 6 will be VERY good in his areas but will have
> trouble when he needs one he doesnt have. The guy with 8 skills at 3
> will be less likely to be caught in a situation where he doesnt have the
> relevant skill. The system should keep things balanced, so I dont see
> how you can call the guy with high skill levels a "munchkin".
It isn't. IMnsHO you can't claim anyone to be a munchkin unless you know
more about them. If all you know about someone's character is that he or
she has a Firearms skill of 6 and a Quickness of 7, then calling that
character a munchkin is drawing a premature conclusion. Munchkins tend to
lack background, or have a background like "His whole family got killed by
Humanis members so now he wants revenge."
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:39:43 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Nukes vs. Horrors
In-Reply-To: <v01540b06aff36f9b6bb3@[140.174.162.210]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
david lowe said on 22:49/16 Jul 97...
> Ok, this may be an old topic, but bear with me. My players have managed to
> let a major NPC get ahold of an Ares tactical nuke. (Well, it wasn't
> exactly their falt, but try explaining that to the Ares harddudes).
> Anyways, she plans to use it later in the game to get revenge,
> unfourtunately, there will be a Horror in the vicinity when (and if) it
> goes off. A major Horror. IYHOs, would it affect the Horror? I belive that,
> since Horrors exist primarily on the Astral, that it would not affect them,
> and the pain and suffering the nuke caused would actually 'feed' the
> Horror. Comments, suggestions.
There are three types of Horrors: those that exist on the physical plane,
those that exist on the astral plane, and those that exist on both at the
same time. Fully physical Horrors should be blown away by a nuke, IMHO,
while fully-astral ones would probably love the experience as astral space
gets polluted beyond anything else that's available in SR. From that, dual
Horrors would get their physical bodies killed, but that won't really hurt
them -- the only way to get rid of a dual-natured Horror permanently is to
kill both the physical and astral bodies, else the Horror can easily find
another physical body, or somehow "regenerate" the astral one.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:39:43 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OOC?
In-Reply-To: <19970717.024305.7390.0.arcaneacuity@****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Charles R Joseph said on 2:27/17 Jul 97...
> >[WotC] are planning on
> >taking over the people that make Warhammer.. which is a pretty
> >massive company...
>
[snip]
> The chances of ANYONE taking over GDW are very, very low. GDW
> are the closest thing in the gaming industry to nazis, aggressively
> crushing competing companies. I don't see them selling out to a softy
> company like WotC.
Don't you mean GW, i.e. Games Workshop, instead of Game Designers
Workshop (GDW)? The former is the big British company from Nottingham,
(in)famous for the Warhammer series and, through Citadel, a HUGE range of
metal and plastic figures with weird body proportions; the latter used to
publish wargames and RPGs such as Traveller and Twilight: 2000, but went
bankrupt in January 1996. I don't think anyone would want to take over
GDW, for starters because AFAIK it doesn't exist anymore...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:39:43 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Addiction
In-Reply-To: <19970717.024305.7390.1.arcaneacuity@****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Charles R Joseph said on 2:43/17 Jul 97...
> My problem is that while I'm all too familiar modern drug
> culture, I'm a bit in the dark about how BTLs/Drugs are handled in
> Shadowrun.
Shadowtech gives rules for drug use, but fails to mention how BTLs fit
into the picture. The rules that are given, though, are obviously intended
to discourage players fom having their characters addicted -- NOBODY using
those rules will live longer than 10 weeks once addicted, because one
physical and one stun box are lost from the Condition Monitor each week...
(<plug>For a suggested improvement, get Paranoid Animals of North America
from my web page.</plug>)
IMHO it would be a good idea to give BTLs addiction stats like chemical
drugs.
> What's available?
In official SR material, nothing much except stuff that's somehow useful
(my age-old complaint about SR again :) But check the net for Wordman's SR
drugs list, and you should have enough to start you off.
> What are the short term/long term effects of addiction? Do they affect
> magic-use?
Shadowtech explains it all on page 87, but basically you lose Essence and
Condition Monitor boxes to an addiction. That should answer the question
if they affect magic use, too...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:49:47 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970716181612.007e6840@***.net> from "Sam Thomas"
at
Jul 16, 97 06:16:12 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|I never mentioned who the "Graphics Illustrator" had worked for. This is
|not a minor league "Graphics Illustrator", sir. This "Graphics
Illustrator"
|in the "PROS"
It doesn't matter ifhe's one of the Elite!
He's FREELANCE! That means he's not a PART of any company, and therefore, is
not going to be privvy to corporate plotting...
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:57:59 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
In-Reply-To: <19970716.232636.28879.0.lobo1@****.com> from "John E
Pederson"
at Jul 16, 97 11:28:08 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|Next question: how do you do 1.5 to the power of smiley? :)
Sorry... I'm crap at calculus and complex numbers...
(And I'm pretty sure the smilie is a very complex number.... :) )
|
|--
|-Canthros
|I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
|and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
|--Francis Bacon
|http://members.aol.com/canthros1
|
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:00:54 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: A New Thread for Gurth
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970716231405.007d1740@***.iquest.net> from
"Jaymz" at
Jul 16, 97 11:14:05 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|#I would THWAP you, but I quite like that character in Airplane.....
|
|which makes me ask the question, what countries besides Australia was that
|movie called "Flying High"?
???
Eh?
???
Flying high???
What was "Airplane II: the sequal" called?
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:07:58 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
In-Reply-To: <199707170439.AAA04599@***.ncweb.com> from "Steven A.
Tinner" at
Jul 17, 97 00:44:48 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|Well ... yeah, but he went through puberty in a vat.
|The boy is a cybermantic monster. He was built to be a killing machine, but
|he still has all the emotional maturity of a little boy.
|He's very much in that "icky girl" phase right now.
MAybe with girls his own age.... But what about WIMMIN?????
|I suppose it might be fun to have Bull take Mikey to the park, and watch
|some hookers try to pick him up though ... ;-)
Even more amusing if he responded.... If you know what I mean.....
:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:11:17 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: Define "munchkin"
In-Reply-To: <199707171038.MAA09408@**********.xs4all.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> that adds 10 to his Quickness and
> +5D6 to his Reaction, which has been magic-proofed so no magic can affect
> him, and who is firing special armor-piercing EX explosive rounds
> with an orichalcum jacket and a FAB core from the Vanquisher is
> probably a munchkin.
Probably?
-=SwiftOne=-
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:13:23 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: A Long road home...
In-Reply-To: <33CD3C9A.ED6EFA62@**.net> from "Black Death" at Jul 16,
97 04:26:50 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|I like your ideal of an adventure. I wished i was part of your group.
|
|thought about running it in #Shadowrun-game??
Have you ever thought about editing posts and using a little common sense
before posting????
Thought not....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:18:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Demon Magic - Spoilers for anyone in a ENEMY type game!!!!!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970717003903.007de6c0@*****.ivcc.edu> from "Court
Schuett" at Jul 17, 97 00:39:03 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|At 10:43 PM 7/16/97 -0800, you wrote:
|>At 11:19 PM 7/16/97, Jaymz wrote:
|>>spioler space about the enemy
|>Harlequins Back. Stats for Horrors and everything. Definitely nasty.
|>
|>D.
|>
|>David R. Lowe (dlowe@****.com)
|I agree that they were nasty, but I thought they were just constructs.
They were constructs.....
|Take a look at the similarities between the Crawlers, and Jethura (sp?)
|Almost positive they are one in the same in which case, SR is in big
|trouble. Cause they really messed up my group of pretty darn powerful PCs,
|and our ED group can take several Jethura, null sweat.
Exactly my point. I think Wraiths are VERY nasty critters, and they're
WEAKER than Jerutha (sp... may as well vary it. I think that's closer).
Now take a rather weak true horror... Like the Thought Worm, or Crystal
thingy.....
And how about Spectral dancers? They can be VERY nasty indeedy....
(They're only tortured souls of trapped by a Horror)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:21:54 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dragons at the end of an age
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970717160311.21784A-100000@*****.student.gu.edu.au>
from "SHANE J. WINZAR" at Jul 17,
97 04:09:32 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|What exactly happens to dragons (greater or lesser) at the end of the age
|(read magic cycle) , once the magic falls below the threshold wouldn't
|all magical creature die? wither? ummm do the dragons fly of to a
|metaplane with high magic for the duration of the low magic age or do the
|hibernate or something else? thanx in advance,
Judging by how they appeared the last time, many people assume they
hybernate.
Whether this is underground in a hidden lair or in a mataplane is known only
to the Dragons themselves....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:24:48 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
In-Reply-To: <33CDBD17.527B9738@********.com> from "Dvixen" at Jul 16,
97 11:35:03 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|Spike wrote:
|>
|> |
|> |NightLife said on 2:16/16 Jul 97...
|> |
|> |> spoiler
|> |>
|> |>
|> |>
|> |>
|> |>
|> |>
|> |>
|> |>
|> |>
|> |>
|> |>
|> |>
|> |>
|> |>
|> |> Have him wake up and find his whole life was a VR simulation.
|> |
|> |Can you say "despair squid"? :)
|>
|> The problem is, how many here will get that reference?
|
|Heh. Not me. ;)
|
|How about Dr. Hilary Langstrom?
Mr Flibble doesn't like smart arses, do you Mr Flibble?
<Eyes start to glow>
|<grin>
<EVILGRIN>
I suppose that coule be an idea. A psy virus.
The victim gains an "Artificial" Magic attribute and the ability to use
REALLY powerful psionics, but at the cost of their mind, and
life-force......
<EVEN EVILLER GRIN>
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:33:54 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Sorry....
In-Reply-To: <33CE6F7E.6120@********.att.net> from "Dan Everett" at Jul
17,
97 02:16:14 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|I know you must hate it when this question pops up but...
|How do I unsubscribe?
Here we go again.
But this time, I'm going to tell you how to FIND OUT, not how to do it.
If I do this from now on, the message might eventually sink in.
e-mail listserv@***tproc.itribe.net
subject: <none>
Body text: Help
End
This gives you EVERYTHING you need to know about subscribing, unsubbing,
temporarily leaving without unsubbing, setting your parameters with
listserv, and so on....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:58:50 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@***01.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: A Long road home...
In-Reply-To: <33CD3C9A.ED6EFA62@**.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
On 16 Jul 97 at 16:26, Black Death wrote:
> I like your ideal of an adventure. I wished i was part of your group.
>
> thought about running it in #Shadowrun-game??
You quoted Bull's whole long message to add two lines?!!?
GRRR.....
SNIP YOUR POSTS!!
--
===DREKHEAD==================================drekhead@***.net===
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
================================================================
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot
stomping on a human face...forever. -George Orwell
----------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:23:19 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: WOTC/FASA
>WOTC bought out AEG, who AFAIK own'ed Shadis magazine, and Legend of
>the 5 Rings which is another fairly large card game.. biggest
>competition Magic had at least... and if you think WotC is a softly..
>*chuckle* I betcha they said the same thing about Microsoft when it
>first started :)
AEG represented only 2% of the card game market according to comic retailer.
WOTC makes up 70% of the card market.
-Bandit
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 00:00:38 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Glenn Munro <eazy@*****.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
In-Reply-To: <tcppop3.378574@***.hydra.com.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
TopCat wrote:
>At 08:29 PM 7/16/97 -0700, Gregory wrote:
>>I think you are being facetious here at best. Average willpower is
>>defined over all the population of earth. Magicians are a subset of that
>>population, and are to be expected to be different. Just as you would not
>>expect to find an an average Ph.D (and note that many/most hermetics have
>>an BA/MA equivalent) to have IQ 100 or an average pro athlete to run at 16
>>minutes per mile, an average mage will have higher willpower. How much
>>higher...well, that's where the question lies. I'd expect an average
>>willpower of 4-5. Six would be uncommon, but not nearly as rare as amongst
>>the mundane.
>
>There are many PhD holders with average IQ's (IQ is a measure of how fast
>you can grasp a given bit of knowledge, not a measure of what you know).
I don't know about many. I know at Sydney University for Psyche 1 it is
compulory to participate as subjects for psychology experiments. Many of
these measured IQ using standard tests to give some sort of point of
reference. The lowest IQ in the history of these tests was 99. So the vast
majority would be above 100 even if a high percentage are within 1 SD of
this. Anyway it is debatable what IQ tests actually measure as many factors
affect their results like race or social environment.
>There are many pro athletes who would exceed the 16 minutes/mile mark, there
>are many that would not.
Think about this a little. Most average people let alone pro athletes can
walk this sort of time.
The average mage is just a person with the
>capability to use magic. There would be proportionately as many mundanes
>with a 6 Willpower as mages.
I have to disagree here. Hermetic mages study to learn their magic often
using mathematical formulas and the like. Those that even bother to try you
would expect to have average and above willpowers. Then with the shamanic
tradition why would a totem choose low willpowered individuals? The totem
wants to advance its own cause and would choose the best people for that
job and people with low willpower generally would not suit.
Even assuming that there is the same spread of willpower amongst mundanes
and mages that does not mean there is the same spread amongst mages running
the shadows. I actually envision most low willpower mages as not
comprehending they are magicaly active. To them they just can do this neat
trick but is generally ignored because its tiring to concentrate to do
it/its evil/it doesn't always work.
QuickFix
The man who made it did not want it;
The man who bought it did not use it;
The man who used it did not know it.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:35:14 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Loseke <mike@******.VERINET.COM>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
In-Reply-To: <199707170622.BAA18869@*******.fgi.net> from "TopCat" at Jul
17,
97 01:22:59 am
Content-Type: text
Quoth TopCat:
>
> At 08:54 AM 7/17/97 +1000, LJ wrote:
> >> Panther Cannon? I'd have a field day with that. I call that severe
> >> powergamer, btw.
>
> >Oh, be reasonable. It's a FASA published item - that means the
> >production team must have envisaged a situation where it would be
> >appropriate. Sure, carrying everywhere you GO is powergaming (and
> >begging for a jail term) but the item in and of itself isn't munchy -
> >it's how and when you use it.
>
> 18D at mammoth ranges is pretty much a powergamer's wet dream with sugar on
> top. It isn't munchy as it is in the rules, but I called it powergaming.
> It's like I've said to my players "you can have anything, just expect
> consequences if you choose to act or purchase unwisely". The better the
> item, the more likely someone will be to attempt to steal it. Also,
> crimelords wouldn't be too happy knowing that some schmoe down the street
> (in their teritory no less) is storing heavy artillery.
I think I like Matt's approach a little better (Matt is one of our
2 GM's). He says "You guys can have any weapon in the book, as long as
I get to shoot you with it first." Needless to say, we have a pretty
conservative group, powerful-item wise. In our current campaign, my
techie/thief/gun-guy (who happens to be the deadliest combat guy so far
in this group) has a Walther PB-120, a Savalette Guardian and a Narcojet
pistol. By keeping the power level low on our side, intentionally, the
power levels encountered will most often match. When the opposing force
is better equipped, it just makes it more fun and challenging.
> >I think your vision of SR is significantly different from mine. That's
> >fine, I respect your right to hold your own interpretations and play the
> >way you like. Please extend us the same courtesy.
>
> As I've said before and will doubtlessly have to say again, play as you
> want. Just don't try to state that powergaming is the norm in the game and
> everything will be just fine. Also, don't try to accomodate powergaming by
> altering the rules to demand such a practice. As far as I know, you haven't
> done so. You've missed my point often by a considerable degree, but
> hopefully this post will cure that.
I don't want to sound too antagonistic here, but you seem to be
contradicting yourself. First you say "play as you want" then you go
on to say "don't try to accomodate powergaming by altering the rules
to demand such a practice." If that is how a group wants to play then
what's wrong with that? We all have our house rules, and every one of
those house rules will look munchkinous or powergamery to someone who
does not play in that group. Live and let live. Now if you were both
arguing a point over game balance within the affected system...
> As to my vision of SR... it's heavy on the roleplaying and light on the
> combat. Numbers matter, but not near as much as they do in most campaigns.
> Good decision-making and proper use of available resources and contacts is
> what defines the success of the runner team.
Aye, what you say is true, the use of contacts and resources is the key
to success, even though in our games we tend to split the combat and
roleplaying about 50/50. Half of us being in combat arms in the military
will do that to a group. :)
--
|
Mike Loseke | You never know how fluffy poodles are,
mike@*******.com | until you step in one.
|
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:55:44 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OOC?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:08 AM 7/17/97 -0400, Steven A. Tinner wrote:
>GDW was Game Designers Workshop, makers of Traveller, Twilight 2000, the
>excellent Challenge Magazine, and the SR ripoff Dark Conspiracy.
Whoa...back the truck up. The what? Have you ever played Dark Conspiracy?
If you're going to say that DC is a rip off of Sr, then perhaps you better
mention how Sr is a rip off of Cyberpunk and AD&D. Or are you just
mindlessly rude?
Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/
The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton
Gencon count down: 21 days
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 10:11:20 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:37 AM 7/17/97 -0500, TopCat wrote:
>Ahh, drink and debate. Now that sounds good. Most people find that, when
>they get to know me, my views on many things are really interesting and
>realistic if a bit stubborn. Also, most people find that, when they get to
>drinking with me, I'm a lush. ;)
A _bit_ stubborn? A _BIT_?!?!? Bob, you make me look reasonable in
comparison. And, you're not a lush, you're a big drunk Czech.
Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/
The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton
Gencon count down: 21 days
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 11:12:42 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Dragons at the end of an age -Reply
>What exactly happens to dragons (greater or
>lesser) at the end of the age
IMHO: Great Dragon Lairs are high magic areas,
either because thats just where they get built, or
becuase once they build them they become that
way. A great dragon will shield his lair with
VERY powerful magic to prevent it being
detected or invaded, and then (because he isn't
going to get any FOOD for a few thousand years
if he cant leave his lair) hibernates. IMHO a
Great Dragon COULD leave and wander around
briefly during a low mana cycle, but would be
suffering damage all the time: the more magic he
used (and appearing as a human uses magic)
the more damage he suffers. Not worth it without
a GOOD reason.
Lesser Dragons: well, they either die, shack up
with greater dragons, or hibernate inside some
natural high magic place. Ones whose hidding
places could be pierced were probably hunted
down and killed by knights or elves during the
low mana tide.
Double-Domed Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 11:23:56 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: [OT] Sa-MASH rumors{was RE: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OOC?}
On Sunday, July 06, 1997 21:59, Shane
Courtrille[SMTP:hardware@*******.DATANET.AB.CA] wrote:
> > On Sun, 6 Jul 1997 22:23:57 +0000 Shane Courtrille
> > <hardware@*******.DATANET.AB.CA> writes:
> > >Then you really do not understand the amount of money WOTC is
> > >bringing in through sales of Magic, and now Legend of the five rings,
> > >and soon TSR items. WOTC has already bought TSR and then another
> > >company. Money is not the issue for them.. they are planning on
> > >taking over the people that make Warhammer.. which is a pretty
> > >massive company...
> >
> > What other company? I haven't been paying atttention lately.
> > TSR was an easy buy because the company was bankrupt.
> <snip>
> > crushing competing companies. I don't see them selling out to a softy
> > company like WotC.
>
> WOTC bought out AEG, who AFAIK own'ed Shadis magazine, and Legend of
> the 5 Rings which is another fairly large card game.. biggest
> competition Magic had at least... and if you think WotC is a softly..
> *chuckle* I betcha they said the same thing about Microsoft when it
> first started :)
Nope. They bought Five Rings Publishing Group, a joint venture between
Alderac Entertainment Group (The guys who publish Shadis) and Isomedia (I
don't know what they do.) They did NOT buy AEG. Furthermore, according to
the lead designer for FRPG (do you find that acronym as pretentious as I
do?) the people of FRPG still have creative control. The only thing the
buyout means is that FRPG has access to WoTC's money and
publishing/distributing expertise.
See http://www.frpg.com/ for more info
And, no, those of us who play L5R don't really know why they did it.
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 11:30:11 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OOC?
In a message dated 97-07-17 11:08:55 EDT, you write:
<< And since we're all bandying about rumors like a bunch of old maids
gossiping, rumor has it that GW IS in trouble, due to their EVIL pricing
practices. >>
I haven't heard the rumors about GW's troubles. So what is the latest scoop?
-Bandit
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 11:38:57 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Kabael <kabael@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Nukes vs. Horrors
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:49 PM 7/16/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Ok, this may be an old topic, but bear with me. My players have managed to
>let a major NPC get ahold of an Ares tactical nuke. (Well, it wasn't
>exactly their falt, but try explaining that to the Ares harddudes).
>Anyways, she plans to use it later in the game to get revenge,
>unfourtunately, there will be a Horror in the vicinity when (and if) it
>goes off. A major Horror. IYHOs, would it affect the Horror? I belive that,
>since Horrors exist primarily on the Astral, that it would not affect them,
>and the pain and suffering the nuke caused would actually 'feed' the
>Horror. Comments, suggestions.
what happens depends totally on how you view the nuke. If it is a purely
physical thing, ie explosion and nothing else, then the Horror is fine,
unless it is on the physical plane. If, however, the nuke is presented as a
crime against nature, or the essence of Oblivion in a bottle, then the
situation is different. If you make the nuke a crime against nature and the
embodiment of evil, I can see the Horror eating it up and smiling :::) If
the nuke unravels reality when it explodes, Astral Space, adn thus the
Horror, will have a problem. It depends on how you want to run it. My advice
is decide what you want to happen to the Horror (survives, killed, nothing,
is more powerful, etc.) and then go back and explain it to the PCs.
k a b a e l
meo nike a.d.i.d.a.s. reebok
My world is unaffected, there is an exit here
I say it is an it's true, there is a dream inside a
dream, I'm wide awake the more I sleep
-Marilyn Manson, Reflecting God
kabael@****.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 11:39:00 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Kabael <kabael@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Dragons at the end of an age
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 04:09 PM 7/17/97 +1000, you wrote:
>What exactly happens to dragons (greater or lesser) at the end of the age
>(read magic cycle) , once the magic falls below the threshold wouldn't
>all magical creature die? wither? ummm do the dragons fly of to a
>metaplane with high magic for the duration of the low magic age or do the
>hibernate or something else? thanx in advance,
maybe the hibernate, or the ones that can leave thrrough the astral plane,
but I think that some (the less intelligent and experienced) must suffer
through the time, and most likely starve. BTW, I think that dragons vary
widely in power and that they are thaumivores, so go figure : )
k a b a e l
meo nike a.d.i.d.a.s. reebok
My world is unaffected, there is an exit here
I say it is an it's true, there is a dream inside a
dream, I'm wide awake the more I sleep
-Marilyn Manson, Reflecting God
kabael@****.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:55:03 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull? - Results
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Steven A. Tinner wrote:
>
> Here's what it looks like ... Bull, you sure don't have many well wishers!
>
> B
> U
> L
> L
>
> K
> E
> E
> P
>
> T
> H
> E
>
> F
> R
> A
> G
>
> O
> U
> T
>
> Y
> A
>
> D
> A
> M
> N
>
> C
> H
> E
> A
> T
> E
> R
> !
>
> Looks like way up on everybodies list is some sort of hideous disease, or
> major health issue.
> I'm of a mind to give Bull a little dose of HMVV ... this should also have
> the added affect of putting a strain on his marriage, which looks to be the
> number two most popular suggestion.
>
> And as a finishing touch, I'll repeat a page from Vael's book, and lop off
> and arm ... OK, I've done this a few times before to Bull, but the classics
> are always good! ;-)
>
> Thanks for all the help!
> Hope I can return the favor.
Don't even think about it Loki!!!!!!
Caric-the-wishing-he-never-read-this-thread-now-shaman-:(
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:59:00 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: Nukes vs. Horrors
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
david lowe wrote:
>
> Ok, this may be an old topic, but bear with me. My players have managed to
> let a major NPC get ahold of an Ares tactical nuke. (Well, it wasn't
> exactly their falt, but try explaining that to the Ares harddudes).
> Anyways, she plans to use it later in the game to get revenge,
> unfourtunately, there will be a Horror in the vicinity when (and if) it
> goes off. A major Horror. IYHOs, would it affect the Horror? I belive that,
> since Horrors exist primarily on the Astral, that it would not affect them,
> and the pain and suffering the nuke caused would actually 'feed' the
> Horror. Comments, suggestions.
Well the nukes effected the bugs in Chicago because they were dealing
with what they called a "primal" force. Something akin to an elemental
power. I could go either way on this, do whichever fits into the game
for you.
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:14:38 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Nukes vs. Horrors
On Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:49:32 -0800 david lowe <dlowe@****.COM> writes:
>Ok, this may be an old topic, but bear with me. My players have
>managed to
>let a major NPC get ahold of an Ares tactical nuke. (Well, it wasn't
>exactly their falt, but try explaining that to the Ares harddudes).
>Anyways, she plans to use it later in the game to get revenge,
>unfourtunately, there will be a Horror in the vicinity when (and if)
>it
>goes off. A major Horror. IYHOs, would it affect the Horror? I belive
>that,
>since Horrors exist primarily on the Astral, that it would not affect
>them,
>and the pain and suffering the nuke caused would actually 'feed' the
>Horror. Comments, suggestions.
I wouldn't bet on the Horror escaping unscathed....
B
U
G
C
I
T
Y
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
When they set off the Cermak nuke, it destroyed any manifest trueforms
(fleshforms also) in the area and knocked the rest of the ones in
Chi-town into torpor. I'd expect a similar thing with the Enemy...Also,
magic apparently cannot affect nuclear radiation. No one knows why, it
just can't.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:14:38 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Define "munchkin"
A munchkin is the guy who attempts to win the RPG. His sole goal in the
characters he/she plays is to have the biggest, nastiest most powerful
character that can possibly be created, whether it fits within the game
or not. This is the kind of person who would favor toxic vampiric
were-dragon Insect shaman/ED Adepts as starting characters, and wouldn't
see the problem with it:) Rules are meant to be broken or ignored and the
more rules the munchy can ignore because they don't apply to his
character (in his mind, anyway), the happier he'll be. The munchy is the
guy who automatically assumes something without asking the GM, simply
because 'it's in the book', but he'll do that only so long as it is
advantageous for his character. He'll automatically try and pass off
over-powerful gear from the net (like a Stonewall MBT I recall seeing
stats for at one point) as being stuff he can get his munchy little paws
on and is never happier than when his character (which has as little
background as possible*) is blowing stuff up, killing people, expending
mass quantities of ammunition/explosives/etc on random targets, etc. He
takes only items and skills which will be useful (no social skills, no
knowledge skills he can't use, etc), and the more damage he can inflict
with them, the more likely he is to take them (Firearms and Armed Combat
are a must for him, Gunnery is also a favorite).
Note that this doesn't mean that every character with Firearms, Armed
Combat and Gunnery are munchkins, or even necessarily power gamers. It's
the ones that have those, plus every other possible skill that can
inflict mass destruction (like 'Nuclear Bomb B/R" :) at 6, all attributes
at 6, and downright abuses the rules, ignores the GM's rulings, and
mostly does his damndest to create a character that, legal or otherwise,
is impossible to kill while being an absolute combat monster. Troll
samurai are favorites, but a munchkin character can be any archetype.
*Munchkin backgrounds tend to exist of as little as possible, often
contradicting itself. Logic is not the munchkin's strong point.
"Where was your character born?"
"Uhh...he grew up in a Middle Class neighborhood."
"Who are/were his family?"
"They're all dead, and nobody knows who they are."
Other favorite answers include that he runs the shadows for the thrill,
hobbies include blowing things up and killing people, because said
character is also a psychopath. <sigh>
The easiest way to deal with a munchkin is to stop gaming with them. It's
better to try to reform them, but this takes longer and is ultimately
harder. And it only gets worse when a reforming munchy winds up playing a
game or three under a munchy GM sometime when you're gone, because they
have a bad tendency to regress (note: _reforming_ munch, not a reformed
one:) And if you have players who cannot be reformed influencing ones
that can, it's best to kick out the one that won't reform, because it'll
be really difficult ot reform a bunch of munchkins if there's an
unreformable munchkin raping the rules all around them.
Sorry for the essay, didn't mean to get so far off:)
--
-Canthros, the one and only (?) shapeshifter-mage, and munchkin on the
mend:)
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:16:31 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: Spell types (was Re: Centering vs Penalties)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Gurth wrote:
>
> Caric said on 9:52/16 Jul 97...
>
> > How did it explain it in first edition?
>
> Probably worse ;)
>
> > Spike? Loki?
>
> Hey, I started playing SR with first edition too you know! :)
I know, so did I, but I didn't know if you had the Big Blue Book or not
Spike and Loki I know have it so there. :P
> One of the biggest problems with SR1 is the way in which all spellcasting
> rules have been thrown together. There's still a piece of paper in my
> falling apart SR1 book with a step-by-step spellcasting guide... Ah, here
> it is, page 81: "When casting an area-effect spell, the magician rolls
> his dice for his Success Test only once, but Target Numbers may vary for
> each character within the effect radius. Count the successes separately
> for each target within the radius." It then continues with an example of
> Neddy casting a Fireball against three targets, one in the open, one
> behind a low wall, and one who just dove through a window. The second
> targets gets a +2 for the wall, and the third a +4 for the window.
>
> <whiskey commercial voice>Nothing's changed, really...</whiskey commercial
> voice>
Well that's SR for ya...vague as always. <sigh>
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:39:38 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: david lowe <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Nukes vs. Horrors
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 2:26 AM 7/17/97, Bruce H. Nagel wrote:
>Nothing wrong with throwing nukes into SR. :) Nothing at all. Now, Horrors
>who are Astral entities would not be affected except by all the crap dredged up
>in the astral plane from the detonation. Horrors with physical forms would be
>blown to bits, end of fragging list. Horrors can only feed upon pain they
>themselves cause, so it would help them not a whit if they survived.
>
Ooops. Didn't I mention that the Horror is behind this all? I mean, who
else would take steps to put a nuke into the hands of a toxic druid?
Besides me, I mean.
D.
David R. Lowe (dlowe@****.com)
Photography/Graphic Design
"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby."
-Daffy Duck
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:48:16 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: david lowe <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: WoTC on TV (was: Re: WOTC/FASA)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Has anyone else seen the WoTC commercials. I've seen three different ones
in the last week or so, all on Comedy Central (that's an all comedy cable
network here in the US). There stupid, but slickly produced. Having a
little experience in the media industry, I know that it takes a few dollars
to make something like that, and a few more to buy airtime. Mebbie our WA
based Wizards have more cash than we think?
D.
David R. Lowe (dlowe@****.com)
Photography/Graphic Design
"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby."
-Daffy Duck
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:51:50 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Define "munchkin"
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970717025606.2d0772f0@***alex1.linknet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 17-Jul-97 wrote John Dukes:
>I would like to have a clear definition of a "munchkin". Is munchkin is
>defined by a players behavior or by his stats, skills, and gear? I've always
>found that Shadowrun generally balances things pretty well. If you are very
>good at one thing, you are not very good at others. The guy with 4 skills at
>6 will be VERY good in his areas but will have trouble when he needs one he
>doesnt have. The guy with 8 skills at 3 will be less likely to be caught in
>a situation where he doesnt have the relevant skill. The system should keep
>things balanced, so I dont see how you can call the guy with high skill
>levels a "munchkin".
I would define a munchkin as someone who wants the most powerfull
being in the universe under his controll.
He wants all at an instand and for free, if he can`t get it he will cheat to
get it.
The other players and the gm are just tools for him to live out his
profile neurosis.
A munchkin is IMHO always defined by his behavior or all characters
above a certain karmalevel are munchis and not advanged characters.
As examble I would not consier my main character munchi because she had
developt over a long time to their current status.
Powergame yes munch not.
If I have created the character yet with the same stats I would be munching to
the
fullest.
--
Barbie the-rigger-decker-shaman-shapeshifter-500+-Karma-real-character
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:52:04 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: listserv idea was Re: Sorry....
In-Reply-To: <11238.199707171233@****.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
To solve such postings from the beginning would it not be better
if the listserver put a sig of its own at the bottom of each mail thats states
how to get help or how to signoff?
The rolemasterlist does just that and no such questions had arise since then
and I thing its worth the little more lines.
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:25:38 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: Nukes vs. Horrors
On Thursday, July 17, 1997 13:39, david lowe[SMTP:dlowe@****.COM] wrote:
> Ooops. Didn't I mention that the Horror is behind this all? I mean, who
> else would take steps to put a nuke into the hands of a toxic druid?
> Besides me, I mean.
Which reminds me. My group, upon first hearing of a toxic druid, said
something to the effect of "Hey, isn't that a drink?" and proceeded to
invent it.
It consists of "3 greens and a brown," the brown being soda of choice, and
the grrens being various mint liquers (IIRC)
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 10:31:49 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Define "munchkin"
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:14:38 PDT."
<19970717.121342.17119.2.lobo1@****.com>
<Snip stuff about Munchkinism>
Right On!
>-Canthros, the one and only (?) shapeshifter-mage, and munchkin on the
>mend:)
I played a weretiger physad once. I still have the character somwhere.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:36:59 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Dragons at the end of an age
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:12 7/17/97 -0500, Mike Elkins wrote:
>>What exactly happens to dragons (greater or
>>lesser) at the end of the age
>Lesser Dragons: well, they either die, shack up
>with greater dragons, or hibernate inside some
>natural high magic place. Ones whose hidding
>places could be pierced were probably hunted
>down and killed by knights or elves during the
>low mana tide.
I would expect that the common dragons who don't get a Great Dragon to hang
out with would die off. I think that the ones popping in now without any
apparent UGE are all reappearing because the universe has this tendency to
re-create important True Patterns (according to the ED book). In ED, this
means that there are some objects that can be destroyed, but they'll just
pop up somewhere else. I suspect that the beings that don't have any evident
critter to be related to for UGE (dragons, sprites) are actually being
restored from backup, so to speak...
--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "So, an Arisian, a Vorlon, and a knnn go into a tavern..." %%
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:40:47 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: (GM) Essence Drain
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
I've sent this to ShadowRN instead of ShadowGM because it originally
bounced back to me with a "Host unknown" error message :(
Possible spoilers for Faux Pas players (if there are any on this list).
Steven A. Tinner said on 0:20/17 Jul 97...
> > > I've had a character who was subject to a Blood Spirit's Essence Drain
> > > power. Is Essence Drain permanent?
> > >
> > Yep. BAD for magically actives, killer for most heavy sam-sams.
>
> AFAIK E-Drain is NOT permanent unless the character is killed by it.
> Don't have my BBB at hand, but doesn't the critter power description there
> imply that Essence does eventually comeback?
You're both right -- Paranormal Animals of Europe (the last book to
include paranormal power descriptions) split Essence Drain into Permanent
and Temporary variants. It mentions that "All creatures referred to in
other sourcebooks [than PAoE] as having the Essence drain power possess
the permanent version." so unless the blood spirit's power mentions that
it is the temporary version, the Essence lost to it is gone forever.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:47:43 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: (GM) Essence Drain
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Possible spoilers for Faux Pas players (if there are any on this list).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Steven A. Tinner said on 0:20/17 Jul 97...
>
> You're both right -- Paranormal Animals of Europe (the last book to
> include paranormal power descriptions) split Essence Drain into Permanent
> and Temporary variants. It mentions that "All creatures referred to in
> other sourcebooks [than PAoE] as having the Essence drain power possess
> the permanent version." so unless the blood spirit's power mentions that
> it is the temporary version, the Essence lost to it is gone forever.
That's why you're the guru.
You can always find these rules that I see, but forget immediately!
Thanks Gurth, I knew there was a temporary version!
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:45:41 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Faux Pas (Thomas)" <thomas@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: listserv idea was Re: Sorry....
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:52 PM 7/17/97 -0500, Barbie whispered:
>To solve such postings from the beginning would it not be better
>if the listserver put a sig of its own at the bottom of each mail thats
states
>how to get help or how to signoff?
>
>The rolemasterlist does just that and no such questions had arise since then
>and I thing its worth the little more lines.
>--
>Barbie
>
>
>==================================================
>You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
>climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
>gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
>no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
>memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
>age who i`m through sumerland.
>
>(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
>
>==================================================
>
If the additional text lines is about four lines and it's on every message,
when someone posts a short message like yours (which I quoted for
illustration) you get five lines of message, sixteen lines of your sig
(counting from the em-dash to the last blank line), and four more lines
from the list server. Result? Five lines of new content, twenty lines of
information we'd see on dozens of messages.
-Thomas Deeny
Your Guide to Shadowrun -- http://shadowrun.miningco.com -- updated every
Wednesday!
"First I'm going to bother every one I meet, and then I'll go home and get
drunk."
-Tippy Turtle
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:50:59 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: (GM) Essence Drain
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Gurth said:
>
>I've sent this to ShadowRN instead of ShadowGM because it originally bounced
>back to me with a "Host unknown" error message :(
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Possible spoilers for Faux Pas players (if there are any on this list).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>You're both right -- Paranormal Animals of Europe (the last book to include
>paranormal power descriptions) split Essence Drain into Permanent and
>Temporary variants. It mentions that "All creatures referred to in other
>sourcebooks [than PAoE] as having the Essence drain power possess
>the permanent version." so unless the blood spirit's power mentions that it
>is the temporary version, the Essence lost to it is gone forever.
>
>Kohl says:
> Speaking as a GM whose currently dealing extensively with Blood Magick
>and Blood Spirits, I can tell you that the Blood Spirit has BOTH Temporary
>AND Permanent Essence Drain Powers. And recently a NPC fell prey to the
>later.
> I play the spirit's selection on which it chooses dependant on how
>'hungry' it is, [Blood spirits MUST consume so much essence in a given time
>period, or expire], how much time it has, etc. If it's critically wounded,
>and needs food desperately, it'll drain it's victim, damaging her permantly.
>Not as satisfying [ I give the spirit only a 75% charge out of doing it that
>way], but they don't need the time required by the 'normally' slower
>temporary means. Not to mention you damage a continual source of food. [Yum!]
> Such Essence loss by a blood spirit in my game is also marked by a loss
>of blood by the victim [the Essence is transfered by this medium]. It flows
>from the eyes, ears, nose, pores, ...eeech, you get the picture. It's not
>very pretty. But it is a Blood Spirit, after all.
>
>Kohl
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 10:58:02 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Skye Comstock <bilbo@****.NWLINK.COM>
Subject: Re: WoTC on TV (was: Re: WOTC/FASA)
In-Reply-To: <v01540b01aff40a91212e@[140.174.162.216]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Has anyone else seen the WoTC commercials. I've seen three different ones
>in the last week or so, all on Comedy Central (that's an all comedy cable
>network here in the US). There stupid, but slickly produced. Having a
>little experience in the media industry, I know that it takes a few dollars
>to make something like that, and a few more to buy airtime. Mebbie our WA
>based Wizards have more cash than we think?
Yeah, I saw one on MTV (gasp) the other day... It was proclaiming
Magic as an intellectual sport and seemed to appeal to geeks and such. :)
About 2-4 months ago, there were commercials on the local radio station
that I listen to; talking about Magic, the tournament center, and the
Pro Tour. People seemed to be pretty amazed when I told them this. I
think WotC has a lot more money than people think. I have a hard
enough time imagining how much FASA is actually worth, WotC must be
worth... uh... a lot? Went past their big new center in the U District
a few days ago, didn't go in, but it looked expensive and from the
fliers I've got from them, the inside sounds really expernsive. (The
Battltech Simulator camps and Magic "classes" probably help:])
-Skye
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:08:06 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: Dragons at the end of an age
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:36 AM 7/17/97 -0800, Max Rible wrote:
>At 11:12 7/17/97 -0500, Mike Elkins wrote:
>>>What exactly happens to dragons (greater or
>>>lesser) at the end of the age
>
>I think that the ones popping in now without any
>apparent UGE are all reappearing because the universe has this tendency to
>re-create important True Patterns (according to the ED book). In ED, this
>means that there are some objects that can be destroyed, but they'll just
>pop up somewhere else.
Well, that would explain Elvis.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:25:05 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gossamer <kajohnson@*******.TEC.WI.US>
Subject: Re: Dragons at the end of an age
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >>>What exactly happens to dragons (greater or
> >>>lesser) at the end of the age
> >
> >I think that the ones popping in now without any
> >apparent UGE are all reappearing because the universe has this tendency to
> >re-create important True Patterns (according to the ED book). In ED, this
> >means that there are some objects that can be destroyed, but they'll just
> >pop up somewhere else.
>
> Well, that would explain Elvis.
I have very rarely seen such an simple, elegant, poignant, and hilarious
comment.
Gossamer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:28:10 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
In-Reply-To: <199707170623.AAA05056@******> from "TopCat" at Jul 17,
97 01:22:59 am
Content-Type: text
TopCat wrote:
|
| 18D at mammoth ranges is pretty much a powergamer's wet dream with sugar on
| top. It isn't munchy as it is in the rules, but I called it powergaming.
| It's like I've said to my players "you can have anything, just expect
| consequences if you choose to act or purchase unwisely". The better the
| item, the more likely someone will be to attempt to steal it. Also,
| crimelords wouldn't be too happy knowing that some schmoe down the street
| (in their teritory no less) is storing heavy artillery.
Please keep in mind that the effectiveness of a PAC varies from game
to game, and even from adventure to adventure. If you're playing in
a high combat game involving high intensity conflicts a PAC might be
what the character "needs" to survive. In you're game that isn't the
case, but I just wanted to point out that the definition of
Powergaming varies.
| | I'd probably go off on the character from a powergaming aspect,
but I | haven't seen the character, nor have I seen how your
particular game is | played, nor have I seen how long your character
has been played so I can't | truly make that call. No munchkinism in
those stats that I can see, though...
And here it appears that you agree :)
Also note that a Munchkin isn't defined by his character, but by
himself. I've encountered a Munchkin that didn't have the brains to
crunch the numbers on his character (the Pathetic Munchkin).
| As to my vision of SR... it's heavy on the roleplaying and light on the
| combat. Numbers matter, but not near as much as they do in most campaigns.
| Good decision-making and proper use of available resources and contacts is
| what defines the success of the runner team.
Ditto, but that's your and my campaigns. Please note that I'm not
trying to argue with you, just point a few things. Powergaming has
it's place in a Powergame (which can be a lot of fun if you've got a
good GM). Powergamer does not equal Munchkin. Everybody's game is
different and you should respect their philosophies as much as you
want them to respect yours.
BTW, I respect your views. I don't always agree. Heck, I don't even
always understand what the heck you're ranting about :)
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:33:27 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Saving the Team by Self-Sacrifice
In-Reply-To: <199707162218.QAA26171@******> from "Black Death" at Jul 16,
97 04:19:41 pm
Content-Type: text
Black Death wrote:
|
| How many of you players have GMs and other players bitch about your
| high level character?
I play in one power-gaming AD$D campaign. However, we roleplay, so the GM
doesn't bitch :)
| And when you and your team gets into a bind and you try to save the team
| by self-sacrifice your GM wimps out and lets you live?
I hate it when that happens. I retire my character after something
like that.
| Is it cause he does not want your character to be immortalized by the
| action he took to save his team?
Nope, usually it's because the GM is afraid to kill characters.
| To you GMs out there has any of your players tried to do this? and what
| did you do about the situation?
I've killed characters for being stupid. I've had a couple think
they needed to sacrifice themselves, but didn't (and lived because
they weren't in the right place). And there have been a few ocasions
when a character has put his life on the line and gotten lucky as
hell. But as yet I don't think I've ever presented a character with
a choice of his life for others. And to tell the truth, I never
will. Of course that doesn't mean the characters won't create such a
situation on their own :) In which case I'll happily waste them.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:36:24 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: What about Bob?
In-Reply-To: <199707162217.QAA26009@******> from "TopCat" at Jul 16,
97 05:16:25 pm
Content-Type: text
TopCat wrote:
|
| I bitch about over-powered characters all the time...
Ah, I read this just after I sent my last post. Am I correct in
assuming that when you say "Powergamer" you're refering to someone
who makes over-powered characters, characters that are overpowered
for the game? And that the player does this despite knowing what the
game is about? If so, I call that a Munchkin (also, the word Asshole
works well in this situation).
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 11:51:11 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: david lowe <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Nukes vs. Horrors
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 1:25 PM 7/17/97, Jonathan Hurley wrote:
>Which reminds me. My group, upon first hearing of a toxic druid, said
>something to the effect of "Hey, isn't that a drink?" and proceeded to
>invent it.
>
>It consists of "3 greens and a brown," the brown being soda of choice, and
>the grrens being various mint liquers (IIRC)
>
ROTFL!!!!
D.
David R. Lowe (dlowe@****.com)
Photography/Graphic Design
"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby."
-Daffy Duck
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 11:55:06 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: david lowe <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: What about Bob?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
<Snip>
Are those regular Bobs, or Fusion Bobs?
D.
David R. Lowe (dlowe@****.com)
Photography/Graphic Design
"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby."
-Daffy Duck
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:53:35 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Nukes vs. Horrors
In-Reply-To: <19970717.121342.17119.0.lobo1@****.com> from "John E
Pederson"
at Jul 17, 97 12:14:38 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|I wouldn't bet on the Horror escaping unscathed....
|
|B
|U
|G
|
|C
|I
|T
|Y
|
|S
|P
|O
|I
|L
|E
|R
|S
|
|
|When they set off the Cermak nuke, it destroyed any manifest trueforms
|(fleshforms also) in the area and knocked the rest of the ones in
|Chi-town into torpor. I'd expect a similar thing with the Enemy...Also,
|magic apparently cannot affect nuclear radiation. No one knows why, it
|just can't.
I thought the ward contained the majority of the blast at cernac....
|
|--
|-Canthros
|I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
|and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
|--Francis Bacon
|http://members.aol.com/canthros1
|
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:55:49 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: WoTC on TV (was: Re: WOTC/FASA)
In-Reply-To: <v01540b01aff40a91212e@[140.174.162.216]> from "david lowe"
at
Jul 17, 97 09:48:16 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|Has anyone else seen the WoTC commercials. I've seen three different ones
|in the last week or so, all on Comedy Central (that's an all comedy cable
|network here in the US). There stupid, but slickly produced. Having a
|little experience in the media industry, I know that it takes a few dollars
|to make something like that, and a few more to buy airtime. Mebbie our WA
|based Wizards have more cash than we think?
There's a BIF thread on these adverts and how stupid they are in
Rec.games.frp.misc....
Take it there. I really don't give a **** about WotC....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:17:01 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: [OT] [Well, it might be usefull][sort of] Reboot!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
The new season of REBOOT started today....
All I can say is.....WATCH IT!!!!!
<Spoiler time>
Is this enough.....
There....
BRILLIANT! Absolutely ****ing brilliant!
Even the new opening sequence catches the mood...
For those who haven't seen this wonderful series, the end of season
cliffhanger involved the main hero being trapped and ejected from the
system, into the Web. (Not a nice place to visit, and I certainly wouldn't
want to live there). The portal to the web was then closed, permanently.
Old {Bobs voice} |New {Megabytes voice}
I come from the net. |I come from the net
From systems, peoples and cities |Infecting systems, people and cities
to this place... |To this place.....
Mainframe. |MEGAFRAME.....
My Format, Guardian. |MY DOMAIN.....
To mend, and defend. |
To defend my new found friends. |[[[Music bit]]]
To defend them from..... |
Their enemies. |
|
[[[music bit]]] |
|
They say the user lives outside the |
net and inputs games for pleasure. |
No-one knows for sure, but I intend |
to FIND OUT! |
|My Format: Virus
REBOOT! |To corrupt and conquer......
All I can say is..... WATCH IT!!!!!
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:35:04 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OOC?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:30 AM 7/17/97 -0400, M. Sean Martinez wrote these timeless words:
>In a message dated 97-07-17 11:08:55 EDT, you write:
>
><< And since we're all bandying about rumors like a bunch of old maids
> gossiping, rumor has it that GW IS in trouble, due to their EVIL pricing
> practices. >>
>
>I haven't heard the rumors about GW's troubles. So what is the latest scoop?
>
At the moment, GW doesn't have any true problems... But they DO have a lot of pissed off
players who are desperately looking for Miniatures Elsewhere for the games...
GW has been doing some really BAD things... Like raising the price of EVERY blister pack
of mini's 50 cents, and raising all their boxed sets 10% across the board. plus some of
their newer mini's have some rediculous prices, like the Green Knight. It's a REALLY cool
looking and nicely done, but at $20.00 for a single mounted mini, it's hideously
overpriced...:(
They have also stopped making or supporting several of their "smaller" games,
such as their Warhammer Quest and Blood Bowl games, which has frustrated the gamers for
those games.
Plus, they went to direct distributorship, and then required a certain amount to be
ordered, thus makig it near impossible for smaller shops to afford the mini's, thus they
stopped carrying them.
And now, GW is requiring stores to buy the newer blister packs in lots of 6, per blister.
thus, a store has to buy 6 Elf Mage blisters...:( This is really becoming a problem for
the stores and gamers alike.
However, Warhamemr products have reached an all time high in popularity in the US, which
is part of the reason GW is getting greedy.
Hopefully, GW will learn from TSR's mistakes. Otherwise, the giant of the Mini Industry
could find itself needing rescued, in which case I can definately see WOTC bailing them
out.
Bull-who-likes-most-GW-mini-games
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:35:08 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Gaming Conventions
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 05:29 AM 7/17/97 -0500, Black Death wrote these timeless words:
>Is there a site that list gaming conventions and their location on the
>net? If so then where is it?
>
Do a netsearch on Gaming Conventions... There are several sites (though I don't know the
addies), though I don;t think there's any ONE site that is really complete.
>PS:: Bull-the-leave-you-hanging-Ork hurry up with Quicksilver Lightning
>Chapter 4+. I like it but you left me hanging.
>
<sigh>
I'm working on Part 3... Unfortunately, I have a bad habit of setting aside old projects
when a new one comes along. But I promise to have at least Chapter 5 done for TSS4 :]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:45:54 -0500
Reply-To: swordman@******.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Swordman <swordman@******.NET>
Subject: Re: WoTC on TV (was: Re: WOTC/FASA)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Skye Comstock wrote:
>
> Yeah, I saw one on MTV (gasp) the other day... It was proclaiming
> Magic as an intellectual sport and seemed to appeal to geeks and such.
But did you keep and eye on MTV?
I coaught the last clip of a Magic tornament. They guy who one looked
like this seruously ripped dude babes all over him like he was Adonis or
something, then I find out he's one of the finalists in this Magic
Tournament, sponsered by MTV.
The world just got a little darker.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:46:15 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@***01.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Gaming Conventions
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970717151755.2d6fd694@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
On 17 Jul 97 at 15:35, Bull wrote:
> Do a netsearch on Gaming Conventions... There are several sites (though I don't know
the addies), though I don;t think there's any ONE site that is really complete.
<rest snipped>
Hey Bull,
today I noticed your mailer is sending your text as one long line.
Might wanna check it.
===DREKHEAD==================================drekhead@***.net===
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
================================================================
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot
stomping on a human face...forever. -George Orwell
----------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:21:59 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Willpower & the Common Mage (was Re: [SR3] Combat Spells)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:00 AM 7/18/97 +1000, Glenn wrote:
>>The average mage is just a person with the
>>capability to use magic. There would be proportionately as many mundanes
>>with a 6 Willpower as mages.
>I have to disagree here. Hermetic mages study to learn their magic often
>using mathematical formulas and the like. Those that even bother to try you
>would expect to have average and above willpowers. Then with the shamanic
>tradition why would a totem choose low willpowered individuals? The totem
>wants to advance its own cause and would choose the best people for that
>job and people with low willpower generally would not suit.
Why would hermetics have to have higher than average Willpowers to bother to
try to understand or use magic? By the statment above of "Hermetic mages
study to learn...etc" one could piece together a general need for hermetics
to have a high Magical Theory skill. Willpower has nothing to do with that,
there are doubtlessly many weak-willed people who can use magic. It just
doesn't work out well numbers-wise to play a character like that.
Totems choose their shaman for their own reasons, and I'd see Willpower as
awfully low on that priority list. Personality would be foremost by far.
Then perhaps destiny. Why bother taking some guy who happens to be
strong-willed if he doesn't have a personality anywhere near that of the
Totem? The guy'd never be able to use his magic anyway. If totems chose
their shaman by willpower, every shaman would be an albino dwarf and no
totem would ever think to pick a troll.
Also, one's willpower need not be "low" (1 or 2) I am simply stating that it
need not be high (5 or 6). Realistically, there would probably be an equal
distribution of both high and low willpowers among mages. In most games,
however, this stat is powergamed. Which is okay as long as people can admit
it and deal with their choices.
>Even assuming that there is the same spread of willpower amongst mundanes
>and mages that does not mean there is the same spread amongst mages running
>the shadows. I actually envision most low willpower mages as not
>comprehending they are magicaly active. To them they just can do this neat
>trick but is generally ignored because its tiring to concentrate to do
>it/its evil/it doesn't always work.
Low willpower mages don't comprehend that they're magically active? Far
from, willpower has absolutely nothing to do with one's capacity to realize
that they are magically active. A high willpower person could easily
deceive himself into believing that he was or was not magically active even
if the inverse was true. A low willpower person might believe someone if
they were told they were or were not magically active.
It'll be far more tiring for a high-willpower mage to cast a hellblast than
it'll be for a low-willpower mage to cast a manadart. Spell selection
should follow one's abilities (something that I believe strongly in). If
you know that you get headaches from casting a barrier, then learn personal
barrier. Control thoughts is a very powerful spell, but anyone who knows
about the spell knows that it's hell to resist. Only those willing to eat
the drain and those too stupid to research the effects of spells before
learning them would choose control thoughts. Also, a high sorcery pool can
more than make up for a low/average willpower. You know that you can't
handle drain as well as willful-boy over there so you work on perfecting
your art to the point where your skill makes up for your shortcoming. It's
a very common occurrence in today's world, why wouldn't it be in 205X?
Believing that magic is evil is part of a person's mindset and totally
seperate from one's Willpower. There are plenty of high Willpower priests
in SR that would swear up and down that magic is evil, but that they can
work "miracles" through their god's will...
Magic not always working can often be a factor of the targets you choose and
the spells you choose to use on them. If you find yourself fighting a troll
street gang a lot, that powerball spell is going to do you absolutely no
good. A manaball will work wonders though. Healing spells will have
problems with cybered targets. It'll be difficult to increase a huge
troll's body with a spell.
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:32:42 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Saving the Team by Self-Sacrifice
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:46 PM 7/16/97 -0400, J. Keith Henry wrote:
>In a message dated 97-07-16 19:18:44 EDT, topcat@***.NET (TopCat) writes:
>>>And when you and your team gets into a bind and you try to save the team
>>>by self-sacrifice your GM wimps out and lets you live?
>>I wouldn't allow the character in the campaign in the first place. Design
>>the campaign, then design characters to fit it. Assuming I did let the
>>character in, I'd let him die. In fact, I'd strive to kill him. Cruel?
>>Perhaps, but he wanted the spotlight...
>Not to start an argument here, but what if said player didn't want to steal
>the spotlight? Sometimes, as you yourself has indicated, "Power" is a
>decision. Deciding to play it comes with a lot of responsibilities, for all
>those involved in the particular game.
As I mentioned in the first line, I wouldn't allow the character to play
anyway. I've got a current situation where one player wants to use a "Speed
Elf" character (23+3D6 intitiative) in a low-mid powered campaign and I'm
not going to allow it.
Power is always a decision. You don't accidentally take a PAC, you take it
because it is powerful. Deciding to play a powerful character does, indeed,
come with responsibilities (and I take each of those very seriously, though
many of the players of such characters do not), but there is also the
responsibility to play the game as a group and within the bounds of a given
campaign. If you let a superpowered character into a group of low-powered
types, it'll ruin the game for all involved. I choose never to let that
situation occur. Saves me a lot of trouble.
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:51:21 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:35 AM 7/17/97 -0600, Mike wrote:
> I think I like Matt's approach a little better (Matt is one of our
>2 GM's). He says "You guys can have any weapon in the book, as long as
>I get to shoot you with it first." Needless to say, we have a pretty
>conservative group, powerful-item wise. In our current campaign, my
>techie/thief/gun-guy (who happens to be the deadliest combat guy so far
>in this group) has a Walther PB-120, a Savalette Guardian and a Narcojet
>pistol. By keeping the power level low on our side, intentionally, the
>power levels encountered will most often match. When the opposing force
>is better equipped, it just makes it more fun and challenging.
Sounds good to me and it's essentially what I do as well. I told my players
to think about this...
What would you do if you saw a guy regularly walking down the street with a
shotgun in his hands? What would the police do? What would local gangers
and criminal orgs do? Now change that shotgun to whatever weapon you want
and then tell me what you want to buy...
>> As I've said before and will doubtlessly have to say again, play as you
>> want. Just don't try to state that powergaming is the norm in the game and
>> everything will be just fine. Also, don't try to accomodate powergaming by
>> altering the rules to demand such a practice. As far as I know, you haven't
>> done so. You've missed my point often by a considerable degree, but
>> hopefully this post will cure that.
> I don't want to sound too antagonistic here, but you seem to be
>contradicting yourself. First you say "play as you want" then you go
>on to say "don't try to accomodate powergaming by altering the rules
>to demand such a practice." If that is how a group wants to play then
>what's wrong with that? We all have our house rules, and every one of
>those house rules will look munchkinous or powergamery to someone who
>does not play in that group. Live and let live. Now if you were both
>arguing a point over game balance within the affected system...
Not contradicting and you and I are actually on the same wavelength here. I
don't want the actual canonical rules of SR changed to expect and demand
powergaming. As they are now, they are fine in many regards (combat spells
being one of those). The rules do not currently demand powergaming, though,
like all systems, they are susceptible to it. If canonical combat spell
rules were changed to fit the viewpoint of a powergamed campaign, then
gradually everyone would *have* to be powergamed in order to survive
(low-powered games would be impossible due to powergamed canonical rules).
This practice works much like nuclear escalation. Make one aspect of a game
more powerful and the others rush to equal and then exceed that level.
Evetually we all end up playing Rifts because it's the lowest-powered game
out there...
I have no problem with powergamed.munchkinous house rules so long as they
remain house rules (not in my house) and not canon. So were we really off
on this topic or not?
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:48:59 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Gaming Conventions
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:46 PM 7/17/97 +0000, Drekhead wrote these timeless words:
>On 17 Jul 97 at 15:35, Bull wrote:
>
>> Do a netsearch on Gaming Conventions... There are several sites (though
I don't know the addies), though I don;t think there's any ONE site that is
really complete.
><rest snipped>
>
>Hey Bull,
>today I noticed your mailer is sending your text as one long line.
>
>Might wanna check it.
>
Oops...
I was trying to fix some stuff last night, and i turned off the auto word
wrappping... And Forgot to turn it back on...
My apologies...:]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 14:51:04 +0000
Reply-To: hardware@*******.ab.ca
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <hardware@*******.datanet.ab.ca>
From: Shane Courtrille <hardware@*******.DATANET.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Gaming Conventions
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970717151755.2d6fd694@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> <sigh>
>
> --
> Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
>
> The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
> Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
> List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
> in production now!
> HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
>
> "Gen Con, here I come!"
> -- Me
> I'm working on Part 3... Unfortunately, I have a bad habit of setting aside old
> projects when a new one comes along.
hmmmm I think your SIG says it all ;) but umm question Bull.. why has
your email recently not been formatted for length? Its annoying
having to scroll way way way right to read stuff.. or is this just
me? (btw.. other ppls email is formatted fine)
Shane Courtrille - hardware@*******.ab.ca
Being in love... What a trip...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:54:22 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:11 AM 7/17/97 -0500, Mike wrote:
>At 01:37 AM 7/17/97 -0500, TopCat wrote:
>>Ahh, drink and debate. Now that sounds good. Most people find that, when
>>they get to know me, my views on many things are really interesting and
>>realistic if a bit stubborn. Also, most people find that, when they get to
>>drinking with me, I'm a lush. ;)
>A _bit_ stubborn? A _BIT_?!?!? Bob, you make me look reasonable in
>comparison.
Heh. I think we're both on par when it comes to how stubborn we are. Now
Nelson, on the other hand... ;)
>And, you're not a lush, you're a big drunk Czech.
Am not! I'm not drunk right now and I've got some Dutch blood in me too...
of course the drunk part could change at any moment ;)
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:12:23 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:28 PM 7/17/97 -0600, David wrote:
>Also note that a Munchkin isn't defined by his character, but by
>himself. I've encountered a Munchkin that didn't have the brains to
>crunch the numbers on his character (the Pathetic Munchkin).
Agreed, Munchkins need not be able to powergame to be munchkins, but in
their character lies the expression of their tendencies. There are many
munchkins out there who don't know the rules of a game, but they know what
will allow them to win every fight while keeping them safe from harm and
they'll strive to make that happen in any way they can (preferrably with
some unique super-powerful item). I appear to have trashed my treatise on
munchkins, but the thread that recently popped up here did a good job
describing them.
>| As to my vision of SR... it's heavy on the roleplaying and light on the
>| combat. Numbers matter, but not near as much as they do in most campaigns.
>| Good decision-making and proper use of available resources and contacts is
>| what defines the success of the runner team.
>Ditto, but that's your and my campaigns. Please note that I'm not
>trying to argue with you, just point a few things. Powergaming has
>it's place in a Powergame (which can be a lot of fun if you've got a
>good GM). Powergamer does not equal Munchkin. Everybody's game is
>different and you should respect their philosophies as much as you
>want them to respect yours.
Agreed! Powergaming does have it's place in a Powergame. Perfectly said.
In a game where powergaming is the norm then it is fine, but it is still
powergaming. I've never said that powergamer means munchkin (why does
everyone think I said this?).
I don't have to respect various gaming philosophies, just as I don't have to
respect various people or practices. Not a very nice sentiment, I know, but
it's the way I am and, I think, the way we all are to one degree or another.
I don't respect munchkinous games and I have little respect if any for some
of the powergames out there. Not respecting a given gaming philosophy and
banning it from practice are two very different things though. I can't do
the latter.
>BTW, I respect your views. I don't always agree. Heck, I don't even
>always understand what the heck you're ranting about :)
I'm a tough guy to want to agree with... heh
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:29:24 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Hartmann <Hartmann@***********.M.EUNET.DE>
Subject: Re: Saving the Team by Self-Sacrifice
Comments: To: Black Death <ddmaster@**.NET>
In-Reply-To: <33CD3AEC.277F4763@**.net>
> How many of you players have GMs and other players bitch about your
> high level character?
>
> And when you and your team gets into a bind and you try to save the team
> by self-sacrifice your GM wimps out and lets you live?
>
> Is it cause he does not want your character to be immortalized by the
> action he took to save his team?
I don't think so. Many GMs are simply afraid of killing characters.
They fear that the player get annoyed.
> To you GMs out there has any of your players tried to do this? and what
> did you do about the situation?
Well, at first I'd make clear to the character that this action might
very well kill him (just in case he didn't realize). If he still
wants to do that (in order to save the team) I'd let him have a real
climatic showdown (because it is a hard decision to let your
character die). I'd give lots of opportunities for roleplaying the
"last minutes" trying to involve the rest of the team if they have
some kind of commlink.
bye mike
---
Download SRCG now:
http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/newreed/15/index.html
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:32:15 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Black Death <ddmaster@**.NET>
Subject: TO TopCat was Re: Saving the Team by Self-Sacrifice
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
TopCat wrote:
>
> At 10:46 PM 7/16/97 -0400, J. Keith Henry wrote:
> >In a message dated 97-07-16 19:18:44 EDT, topcat@***.NET (TopCat)
> writes:
> >>>And when you and your team gets into a bind and you try to save the
> team
> >>>by self-sacrifice your GM wimps out and lets you live?
>
> >>I wouldn't allow the character in the campaign in the first place.
> Design
> >>the campaign, then design characters to fit it. Assuming I did let
> the
> >>character in, I'd let him die. In fact, I'd strive to kill him.
> Cruel?
> >>Perhaps, but he wanted the spotlight...
>
> >Not to start an argument here, but what if said player didn't want to
> steal
> >the spotlight? Sometimes, as you yourself has indicated, "Power" is
> a
> >decision. Deciding to play it comes with a lot of responsibilities,
> for all
> >those involved in the particular game.
>
> As I mentioned in the first line, I wouldn't allow the character to
> play
> anyway. I've got a current situation where one player wants to use a
> "Speed
> Elf" character (23+3D6 intitiative) in a low-mid powered campaign and
> I'm
> not going to allow it.
>
> Power is always a decision. You don't accidentally take a PAC, you
> take it
> because it is powerful. Deciding to play a powerful character does,
> indeed,
> come with responsibilities (and I take each of those very seriously,
> though
> many of the players of such characters do not), but there is also the
> responsibility to play the game as a group and within the bounds of a
> given
> campaign. If you let a superpowered character into a group of
> low-powered
> types, it'll ruin the game for all involved. I choose never to let
> that
> situation occur. Saves me a lot of trouble.
> --
> Bob Ooton
> topcat@***.net
Who mention that the others where low powered characters??
wait a minute. They were but not because they were just made or not been
played that much. Hell all of them except one other still had the same
stats as when they where created.
Is it my fought that the players did not use they Karma??
So until you know the whole situation don't be a drekhead.
PS: I understand the "speed elf" situation and i would not allow it if
he just created it.
--
http:/www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/3869
<BlkDeath> WA:: Request a kick on aisle 10. please
*** You were kicked from #Shadowrun by WildAngle
(Victim number 10 Aisle 10! Clear out! Contaminated
soy spilled!)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:15:34 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Nelson <kuthuga@***.NET>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
In-Reply-To: <199707172054.PAA02335@*******.fgi.net> from "TopCat" at Jul
17,
97 03:54:22 pm
Content-Type: text
> Heh. I think we're both on par when it comes to how stubborn we are. Now
> Nelson, on the other hand... ;)
What!? how the heck did I get in on this. I always bow to a reasoned
arguement Bob you just rarely give me one. Remember its only
overconfidence if I fail and only stubborness if im not right.
So quoth the big fookin Irishman
Mike Nelson
mike@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:22:46 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Charles R Joseph <arcaneacuity@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Addiction
On Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:39:43 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>Shadowtech gives rules for drug use, but fails to mention how BTLs fit
>into the picture. The rules that are given, though, are obviously
>intended to discourage players fom having their characters addicted --
NOBODY
>using those rules will live longer than 10 weeks once addicted, because
one
>physical and one stun box are lost from the Condition Monitor each
>week...
Geez...that's awfully realistic. I can see drugs being a bit
more potent in 2058, but Christ...can't have much of a drug culture with
everyone dying all the time. I guess they have their reasons for wanting
to discourage junkie characters, same as with any other "bad" element.
One has to keep up appearances.
>(<plug>For a suggested improvement, get Paranoid Animals of North
>America from my web page.</plug>)
I will as soon as I have web access again...which will HOPEFULLY
be tomorrow.
>IMHO it would be a good idea to give BTLs addiction stats like
>chemical drugs.
I don't know about that. It seems to me that there should be
more mental and less physical side effects. However, since my character
uses both BTLs and chemical drugs, that would only fuck my character up
even more...which I don't particularly mind as long as he still has some
semblance of usefulness, real or imagined, to the rest of the group.
>> What's available?
>
>In official SR material, nothing much except stuff that's somehow
>useful (my age-old complaint about SR again :) But check the net for
>Wordman's SR drugs list, and you should have enough to start you off.
I'll do that too...when I get my access back. Two weeks without
access and counting...wahhhhhh!
>> What are the short term/long term effects of addiction? Do they
>>affect magic-use?
>
>Shadowtech explains it all on page 87, but basically you lose Essence
>and Condition Monitor boxes to an addiction. That should answer the
>question if they affect magic use, too...
I see...considering that my character would be dead already from
these rules (he's been an addict for about a year prior to game time), I
don't think I'll be using them.
Winter Wolfe Arcane
arcaneacuity@****.com
"When our hatred is violent, it sinks us even beneath those we hate."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:58:30 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Designs [was: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin'
Munchies!!!]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:08 PM 7/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Okay, with this paragraph a very distinct question has arisen to me. How
>many people out there have a game scenario/series that is "neverending"? By
>that I mean that they don't just "get an idea" and design the idea then have
>everyone make the characters. After the idea is over, the characters are put
>aside.
All of mine are like this... I create a (very) simple campaign basis and go
from there, pretty much allowing the characters to do as they wish and take
the campaign with them. Why play a game where the GM says "you do this"
when you could play one where the GM says "now what do you do?". The
characters are never put aside.
Now this sounds like I am borderline absurdly flexible in what I'll let into
my game. Remember that I set the game, then have the characters made to fit
it, then let it play out.
If you make the characters before teh setting, you can have continuity and
association problems (why would an ex-Wildcat hang out with an ex-SEAL and a
mage from Tir Tairngire). You can also run into power-level problems (Troll
Tank and GBD join a group of gangers...ugh).
Design the campaign, work with the players to get the characters to mesh,
then go from there... formula for a perfect campaign.
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:07:37 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: TO TopCat was Re: Saving the Team by Self-Sacrifice
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 04:32 PM 7/17/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Who mention that the others where low powered characters??
It was mentioned at the start of the thread that the sacrificial character
was overly powerful for the campaign.
>wait a minute. They were but not because they were just made or not been
>played that much. Hell all of them except one other still had the same
>stats as when they where created.
I don't know the *specific* campaign in question only the situation that the
original poster gave, which is all anyone could reply to...
>Is it my fault that the players did not use they Karma??
Yes, it could well be. If the campaign is set for lower-level characters
and one character insists on advancing himself into the powergamed
stratosphere while others maintain the status quo then it is, indeed, his
fault and unquestioningly so. The campaign will suffer accordingly and I'd
kill the character that would do such a thing...
>So until you know the whole situation don't be a drekhead.
I know the situation well and have been far from a "drekhead" in dealing
with it...
>PS: I understand the "speed elf" situation and i would not allow it if
>he just created it.
All of the characters are newly created. I haven't even handed out karma
yet (some are quite upset about this as it has been two sessions now).
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:20:01 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Loseke <mike@******.VERINET.COM>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Designs [was: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin'
In-Reply-To: <199707172158.QAA07768@*******.fgi.net> from "TopCat" at Jul
17,
97 04:58:30 pm
Content-Type: text
Quoth TopCat:
>
> At 11:08 PM 7/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >Okay, with this paragraph a very distinct question has arisen to me. How
> >many people out there have a game scenario/series that is
"neverending"? By
> >that I mean that they don't just "get an idea" and design the idea then
have
> >everyone make the characters. After the idea is over, the characters are put
> >aside.
>
> All of mine are like this... I create a (very) simple campaign basis and go
> from there, pretty much allowing the characters to do as they wish and take
> the campaign with them. Why play a game where the GM says "you do this"
> when you could play one where the GM says "now what do you do?". The
> characters are never put aside.
This is exactly the approach that we have always taken, especially with
Shadowrun. The setting lends itself more to this type of setup than
many other game settings. It also encourages the players to think more,
and since this is a mental game anyway, thinking is good.
> Now this sounds like I am borderline absurdly flexible in what I'll let into
> my game. Remember that I set the game, then have the characters made to fit
> it, then let it play out.
Do you make all of the characters yourself to fit the campaign, or do you
give some guidelines for the players to use?
> If you make the characters before teh setting, you can have continuity and
> association problems (why would an ex-Wildcat hang out with an ex-SEAL and a
> mage from Tir Tairngire). You can also run into power-level problems (Troll
> Tank and GBD join a group of gangers...ugh).
I'll share what we did on our newest campaign. The GM (Travis this time)
announced that he would be running a campaign and told us what the
specific limitations were, as well as which optional/house rules we
should pay close attention to while creating our characters. He did
not specify what type of characters we should make. He didn't even know
what kind of characters we would be using until he had already outlined
the first two scenarios we would be put through. The task put before us
(the players) was simple: make a group of characters that already had
a relationship as a group, that also worked well together, and come up
with detailed backgrounds, both personal and group.
We came up with a refreshing mix: 2 hermetic mages, 1 PhysAd, 1 rigger,
a decker (who's now an NPC), a face-man and 2 B&E types. Note, we do
not have a single street sam or merc. We've put some 20 hours into this
campaign so far and the group is working like a finely tuned machine.
It promises to be one of the more enjoyable campaigns too, if we can
keep it going and not be disturbed by too many spouses too often...
In our group experience, doing things this way has always been the best
method when starting a campaign. We've experimented with the GM handing
out pre-made characters for the players to use and that didn't last
too long. In fact, only one character made it out of that campaign
to play in one or two more (Cherry, the psycho gang chick...).
--
|
Mike Loseke | You never know how fluffy poodles are,
mike@*******.com | until you step in one.
|
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:52:26 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Designs [was: Re: We Don't Need No
Stinkin'Munchies!!!]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Top Cat ranted, standing upon podium, beating chest:
> Design the campaign, work with the players to get the characters to
>mesh,
>then go from there... formula for a perfect campaign.
>
>To which Kohl replys:
> Okay! First off, I've got to say, TopCat, you bring a whole new meaning
>to GM fasism!
> Design the campaign, design out the characters, dictate who goes and
>knows where and what? Why don't you just play all the PCs and NPCs yourself?
> The whole point of the game is to allow the players to run a character
>they LIKE to run, WITHIN REASON. NOT dictate to them what they can and cannot
>have or do!
> I ran into a GM like that during a gaming convention in Buffalo, when I
>was visiting a couple of friends. He had the whole thing laid out to a T,
>with NO flexibility for personalization whatso ever! And it was a tournament
>game slated for 3 nights! having been a Gm for awhile, I can tell someone new
>to the game, so I figured I'd play dumb, like I'd wasn't familiar with the
>game, and just enjoy the ride [OKAY, I'm an EVIL person! Never said I was an
>angel.]
> But as the game went on, it became more apparent that the whole thing
>was just set up so the Gm could see HIS characters played out in HIS story
>HIS way. Having a viscious streak a klick long, I proceeded to use my
>familiarity with the game, mechanics and setting, to 'accelerate'a little
>chaos into the game.
> After the end of the first session, he asked me when we were leaving if
>I'd played before, and I said a little. I suggested he shouldn't be so heavy
>handed in pushing his players, and things would go easier. I was still
>enjoying myself, and thought the storyline was pretty decent.
> The following two days actually were a bit more fun. He allowed the rest
>of the group to tweek their characters to fit how they saw them [NOT power
>wise, but laterally, like a confidence man should have more than 3 Charisma
>and Social Ettiquette, instead of 6 Firearms, etc.]. When it was over,
>everyone had a good time. I ended up being voted, MUCH to my surprise [No,
>really!] best player for the tourney. I'd managed to literally sign a deal
>with the devil, seemingly betray my comrades, and the do an about face, and
>take out the NPC bad guy, escape with my now bewildered comrades [one a troll
>who kept giving me noogies on the top of my head!], and keep the NPC's
>datachip for my self! <pats self on back shamelessly!>
> My self agrandizement aside [What?!? If there's anything around here
>bigger than my ego, I want it found and shot right now!], the point I'm
>TRYING to make is, a GM ruling with an IRON HAND doesn't ensure a MUNCHIE
>proof game, where everyone is compatible and gets along. Try the velvet glove
>instead of the mahogany stick. You might get better results. Of course you'll
>run into powergamers and munchies, it comes with the territory. That's life.
>Taking away a player's free will won't eliminate that.
> The game I'm running now, I set the parameters and pretty much let
>everyone design out their own characters. It was MY job as GM to make a
>scenerio that would eventually unite them in a common cause, and maybe
>forming links lasting long after the story's over. Maybe it will work; maybe
>it won't. But I figure I'd at least try, and if my players like the
>'experiment' I think I did okay.
> DOH! Enough talk. Back to the shadows for this ork. Audi.
>
>Kohl.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:56:06 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] [Well, it might be usefull][sort of] Reboot!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Spike proclaimed!!!
>The new season of REBOOT started today....
>
>All I can say is.....WATCH IT!!!!
>
>Kohl replys:
> NEW REBOOT!!!
> And I came into work early cause I thought nothing was on the tv.
> ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
> Thanks for the synopsis though! Guess it'll have to tide me over till I
>can get to see it.
>
>Kohl
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:13:54 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: WotC's Acquisitiveness
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Just thought you people might like to see an official FASA response on
this one...
Lady Jestyr
----------------------------------------------------
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota
monax materiam possit materiari?
----------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
----------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:35:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: FASALou@***.com
Reply-To: earthdawn@***ts.iquest.com
To: earthdawn@***ts.iquest.com
Subject: Re: [EarthDawn] Disheartening News
Roger Gaudreau wrote:
>>>A couple of friends of mine in the gaming industry with deep contacts at
Wizards of the Coast have told me recently that negotiations between WotC
and FASA are near completion and WotC will be buying FASA in the very
near future. Truly, WotC is becoming the megacorp of the gaming world.<<<
Okay, let's clear this up right now.
Yes, WotC talked with us about this. They talked with virtually *every*
game company about purchasing them.
As for negotiations being nearly completed, this is patently not true.
There were (and are) *no* negotiations between the two companies.
The final word: Are they buying us? *NO*
>>> The reason this news is disheartening is because it probably means the
end of Earthdawn, or at the very least a suspension of the ED production
schedule. WotC bought TSR (as we are all aware), ED competes with AD&D
and ED is not (despite our best efforts) a profitable product line. WotC
has a habit of canceling unprofitable lines (remember when they yanked
Ars Magica 4th ed. *after* it went to the printer), so they'll probably
ditch ED after they buy FASA. We can hope that some other gaming company
with a conscience will pick up the line and continue it (and I hope
they'll publish any manuscripts that have already been written but not
yet printed; I worked hard on Secret Societies). If they somehow decide
to keep ED and the existing ED development intact, then I will finally
believe that miracles really happen.<<<
Okay, let's clear up some errors here...
First off, *if* WotC were to purchase FASA, why would that mean the end of
Earthdawn? Just because it's competitive with AD&D? I don't think so.
If WotC is really trying to become a megacorp, the closest equivalent we
might compare them to is a company like Hasbro, who own *many* other game and
toy companies, including Parker Brothers and Milton Bradely. These two
companies have competitive products, yet we don't see Hasbro killing off
games of one company that compete with another. I believe the same would hold
true if WotC were to buy FASA.
Also, I feel I should point out that when WotC pulled the plug on its RPG
lines, Ars Magica 4th Edition was NOT at the printer. It was close to being
ready, but it hadn't gone to the printer yet. (Of course according to sources
close to Atlas Games, it wasn't all that close to being finished, but that's
a different topic).
>>>Of course, everyone at FASA (especially Lou) will deny this story, 'cause
it probably means their jobs if they confirm it. I suppose that if there
were a single good thing about this, it's the fact that it's not
happening until after the Thera sourcebook reaches the shelves.<<<
Well, you're right about one thing. I'm denying it. But *NOT* because I
fear for my job, but because it's NOT TRUE. Plain and simple.
BTW, even if it was true, I couldn't confirm nor deny anything, and in
fact, a non-commital response would probably be a bigger hint about the truth
than any denial could ever be.
Hope this clears up some things,
Lou Prosperi
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:32:54 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OOC?
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:55:44 -0500"
<3.0.32.19970717095536.009718d0@****host>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
You wrote:
> Whoa...back the truck up. The what? Have you ever played Dark Conspiracy?
> If you're going to say that DC is a rip off of Sr, then perhaps you better
> mention how Sr is a rip off of Cyberpunk and AD&D. Or are you just
> mindlessly rude?
And DC is definitely not a ripoff of SR anyway, that's plain silly.
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:26:34 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: [OT] [Well, it might be usefull][sort of] Reboot!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Fisher, Victor wrote:
>
<snip>
You know I love you Vic, but this thing where all of your mail looks
like a reply is driving my nuts. <weep, sob> Is there anything at all
we can do about it that you know of? Are you aware that it is still
happening?
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:00:38 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: [OT] well, it might be...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sorry, guys!
Dammit, thought I'd gotten that bug outta my mailer's system!
Guess you'll be glad not to hear from me for awhile, till I get this
thing nixed.
To my players, I'll make sure you don't have to waid thru any more >>>>,
after this message, so don't fret.
Thanks for the notice, Caric.
Kohl, taking out 'BIG MAMA', and going to have a chat with the boys in
Systems!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:08:10 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!!]
In a message dated 97-07-16 23:41:35 EDT, lobo1@****.COM (John E Pederson)
writes:
>
> Actually, this is how I *always* start out, I just never get anywhere
> (between not managing a game a month and not having a consistent group of
> players, it's damn hard to get a game going for any period of time,
> long-term) Maybe with college in the fall, I'll be able to *play* in a
> game that will last a decent period of time (anyone know of a gaming
> group in Terre Haute, Indiana that's looking for players? :)
>
> -
Too bad Lobo, we're in Lafalot, just north of ya...okay, maybe not -just-
north...
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:19:31 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
In a message dated 97-07-17 03:03:10 EDT, chaos@*****.COM (Bull) writes:
> Heh... Should I post Bull's stats? i think his lowest is now a 5...
<heh>
>
> But then, when you get close to 400 Karma, what the hell do you expect??
> Look at the shit we have to do...
>
>
I would have to say the same thing about Binder actually, though his karma is
a few higher than that.
-Keith (who is really wishing he could get some of these "bigger guys" in one
room for a game, just -ONCE-)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:21:11 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: (IC)Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull? - Results
In a message dated 97-07-17 03:03:47 EDT, bluewizard@*****.COM (Steven A.
Tinner) writes:
>
> Here's what it looks like ... Bull, you sure don't have many well wishers!
>
>
From out of the shadows, a whisper to Decker Bull, carrying the resonant
lightly in its' warmth....
"Beware for foul play is headed your way..."
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:25:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Dragons at the end of an age
In a message dated 97-07-17 08:41:41 EDT, s702399@*******.GU.EDU.AU (SHANE J.
WINZAR) writes:
>
> What exactly happens to dragons (greater or lesser) at the end of the age
> (read magic cycle) , once the magic falls below the threshold wouldn't
> all magical creature die? wither? ummm do the dragons fly of to a
> metaplane with high magic for the duration of the low magic age or do the
> hibernate or something else? thanx in advance,
>
>
One option that we've played out here is that those dracoforms capable of
such actually journey "directly" into the Metaplanes. In our games, Arleesh
(Bottled Demon) did that. This way she was able to continue her existence,
living and growing and developing, during the low mana cycle Earthside.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:26:56 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Nukes vs. Horrors
In a message dated 97-07-17 09:31:06 EDT, NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU
(Bruce H. Nagel) writes:
>
> Nothing wrong with throwing nukes into SR. :) Nothing at all. Now,
Horrors
> who are Astral entities would not be affected except by all the crap
dredged
> up
> in the astral plane from the detonation. Horrors with physical forms
would
> be
> blown to bits, end of fragging list. Horrors can only feed upon pain they
> themselves cause, so it would help them not a whit if they survived.
>
> losthalo
>
>
Uh, (raising hand here) what about the guy who is under the control of a
Wraith at the time that s/he pushes the button?
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:16:31 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: [OT] well, it might be...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Fisher, Victor wrote:
>
> Sorry, guys!
> Dammit, thought I'd gotten that bug outta my mailer's system!
> Guess you'll be glad not to hear from me for awhile, till I get this
> thing nixed.
> To my players, I'll make sure you don't have to waid thru any more >>>>,
> after this message, so don't fret.
> Thanks for the notice, Caric.
>
> Kohl, taking out 'BIG MAMA', and going to have a chat with the boys in
> Systems!
If you write directly, it doesn't do it. It's only when you reply to
something else. I dunno what's causeing it. Hopwfully it's something
simple, I wouldn't want you to run off and not mail us anymore. :)
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:36:30 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: READ FIRST!! (wasRe: Demon Magic - Spoilers for anyone in a ENEMY
type game!!!!!
In a message dated 97-07-17 09:39:39 EDT, schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU (Court
Schuett) writes:
BLAST and DAMN...guy, I honestly forgot the spoilers in my previous posting
of this entry. I am VERY sorry...
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:35:19 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Demon Magic - Spoilers for anyone in a ENEMY type game!!!!!
In a message dated 97-07-17 09:39:39 EDT, schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU (Court
Schuett) writes:
> I agree that they were nasty, but I thought they were just constructs.
> Take a look at the similarities between the Crawlers, and Jethura (sp?)
> Almost positive they are one in the same in which case, SR is in big
> trouble. Cause they really messed up my group of pretty darn powerful
PCs,
> and our ED group can take several Jethura, null sweat.
>
> -=Court
>
A question came up to me concerning ED/SR crossovers with the Horrors. Those
Horrors in the book (Harley and all), have multiple attacks, but the attacks
were considered "slighter" than a principle attack. I may be remembeing
incorrectly on this, I admit.
Anyway, multiple action combat exists in SR, it just requires more. Karma
and Experience in this case. Ambidexterity, Off-Hand, Blind-Fighting, Zero-G
Ops (for the space farers) are all optional "special skills" that could be
developed, and quickly allow for a character to "keep up" with the Horrors.
Okay, maybe not the "Named Horrors", but the one's so far...sure...
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:41:36 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
In a message dated 97-07-17 11:37:51 EDT, topcat@***.NET (TopCat) writes:
>
> I complain when they try to pass off powergaming as the norm and ingrain
> powergaming-level or powergaming beneficial rules in the base systems of a
> game. Powergame all you like, but keep that crap out of the rules and
don't
> even think that it's the way the game was designed to be played. It is a
> way that it can be played, but it wasn't meant to be.
>
>
Hey Topcat, the "Game" was designed to be played at ALL those levels you have
mentioned. It is -Perceived- however a given player or group of players
chooses to do so.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:55:00 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Saving the Team by Self-Sacrifice
In a message dated 97-07-17 16:35:17 EDT, topcat@***.NET (TopCat) writes:
>
> Power is always a decision. You don't accidentally take a PAC, you take
it
> because it is powerful. Deciding to play a powerful character does,
indeed,
> come with responsibilities (and I take each of those very seriously,
though
> many of the players of such characters do not), but there is also the
> responsibility to play the game as a group and within the bounds of a
given
> campaign. If you let a superpowered character into a group of low-powered
> types, it'll ruin the game for all involved. I choose never to let that
> situation occur. Saves me a lot of trouble.
>
No real argument except for the rare one now and again that understand that
for all, and just wants to play. He's not out to, and even takes steps to
ensure, that s/he won't destroy the game.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 21:07:27 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
On Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:41:11 -0700 Caric <caric@********.COM> writes:
>NightLife wrote:
>>
>> spoiler
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>
>> How that for starters.
>Not bad, but how about this one. It's slightly evil so bear with me.
>Now we have all seen Bull talk about how the magic rules are his week
>spot, and i'll assume that Tinner has read the novel i'm gonna refer to.
>(I think it was the one with Dirk Montgomery in Hawaii, but I might have
>just made that up) Anyway there's this novel where a troll becomes a
>bear shaman I believe, and at the end of the book all of his cyberware
>gets pushed out of his body.
I don't remember the title either, but IIRC it involved Serrin ...and
those darn exploding zombies.
>Bull IMHO acts like a dog shaman, make him one. :)
Ooo there's a twist.
~Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 21:37:48 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Nukes vs. Horrors
On Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:53:35 +0100 Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
writes:
>|I wouldn't bet on the Horror escaping unscathed....
>|
>|B
>|U
>|G
>|
>|C
>|I
>|T
>|Y
>|
>|S
>|P
>|O
>|I
>|L
>|E
>|R
>|S
>|
>|
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>|When they set off the Cermak nuke, it destroyed any manifest
>trueforms
>|(fleshforms also) in the area and knocked the rest of the ones in
>|Chi-town into torpor. I'd expect a similar thing with the
>Enemy...Also,
>|magic apparently cannot affect nuclear radiation. No one knows why,
>it
>|just can't.
>
>I thought the ward contained the majority of the blast at cernac....
It did. Scary, neh? Also goes toward explaining the high background count
at nuclear blast sites, even ones better than a hundred years old (like
Hiroshima and Nagasaki). I'd be watching the Cermak site for the
appearance of the Enemy, high background count and all.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:07:22 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Designs
In a message dated 97-07-17 19:25:45 EDT, topcat@***.NET (TopCat) writes:
>
> If you make the characters before teh setting, you can have continuity and
> association problems (why would an ex-Wildcat hang out with an ex-SEAL and
a
> mage from Tir Tairngire). You can also run into power-level problems
(Troll
> Tank and GBD join a group of gangers...ugh).
>
>
Ya know TC, that whole attitude is a bit strange, but then again we are
talking about the differences in GM approach I think. Sometimes, especially
when the group is really flexible, the ex-Wildcat, the ex-Seal and mage from
Tir getting together can be a really shit-kicking game in and unto itself.
Oh, and by the way, I don't know what kind of stats your examples would
have, but they are -MOST- definitely not the average shadowrunner according
to the examples you've given.
-Keith (who just had to get a quick jibe in somewhere ;)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:08:28 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Victor's Reply Style?
In a message dated 97-07-17 19:38:25 EDT, caric@********.COM writes:
>
> You know I love you Vic, but this thing where all of your mail looks
> like a reply is driving my nuts. <weep, sob> Is there anything at all
> we can do about it that you know of? Are you aware that it is still
> happening?
>
Oh thank god someone else noticed this. I thought I was going even more nuts
than I already am...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:08:08 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: WotC's Acquisitiveness
On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:13:54 +1000 Lady Jestyr
<jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU> writes:
>Just thought you people might like to see an official FASA response on
>this one...
<snip rest of message>
Yippee!!
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:12:22 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Sorry....
On Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:52:04 -0500 Barbie <barbie@**********.COM> writes:
>To solve such postings from the beginning would it not be better
>if the listserver put a sig of its own at the bottom of each mail
>thats states
>how to get help or how to signoff?
>
>The rolemasterlist does just that and no such questions had arise
>since then and I thing its worth the little more lines.
But seriously is that extra baggage on EACH AND EVERY POST worth the few
times that it pops up?
~Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:12:22 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
On Wed, 16 Jul 1997 17:07:14 -0500 TopCat <topcat@***.NET> writes:
[a bunch of stuff ending with.....
>Now what's more pathetic, Adam: having fun playing a realistic campaign
of
>SR or having fun playing a powergamer/munchkin campaign? ]
Ah, shut the hell up. And drop that lame-ass condecending
ego/attitude/arrogance crap.
If you want to debate game powerlevels and gaming styles then be my
guest, just do it with out resorting to calling anyone in opposition to
your gaming preferences/styles "pathetic".. it does nothing to strengthen
your argument (never mind that it's topic is entirely a matter of
opinion)
~Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:16:43 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Designs [was: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin'
In a message dated 97-07-17 20:35:23 EDT, mike@******.VERINET.COM (Mike
Loseke) writes:
>
> > Now this sounds like I am borderline absurdly flexible in what I'll let
> into
> > my game. Remember that I set the game, then have the characters made to
> fit
> > it, then let it play out.
>
> Do you make all of the characters yourself to fit the campaign, or do you
> give some guidelines for the players to use?
>
>
I think this part of the discussion is what I was personally stuck on. The
way that TC first mentioned (It was you wasn't it? damn but long threads can
get tricky), it sounded like TC was being, as mentioned elsewhere "fascist".
But after the better definition, TC's game didn't sound all that different
from the one's here in their origins.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:33:31 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: (OT) Tom Cone (Brother1)
I apologize for this method of approach, but Tom Cone (Brother1@*****....)
has apparently dropped beyond the reach of my mailer at AOL to reach. Tom,
if you are reading this, let me know, so I can get something to work for you
in the PBEM.
Thanks
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 21:58:34 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: FASA FOR SALE - NOT!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From: FASALou@***.com
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:35:32 -0400 (EDT)
To: earthdawn@***ts.iquest.com
Subject: Re: [EarthDawn] Disheartening News
Reply-to: earthdawn@***ts.iquest.com
Roger Gaudreau wrote:
>>>A couple of friends of mine in the gaming industry with deep contacts at
Wizards of the Coast have told me recently that negotiations between WotC
and FASA are near completion and WotC will be buying FASA in the very
near future. Truly, WotC is becoming the megacorp of the gaming world.<<<
Okay, let's clear this up right now.
Yes, WotC talked with us about this. They talked with virtually *every*
game company about purchasing them.
As for negotiations being nearly completed, this is patently not true.
There were (and are) *no* negotiations between the two companies.
The final word: Are they buying us? *NO*
>>> The reason this news is disheartening is because it probably means the
end of Earthdawn, or at the very least a suspension of the ED production
schedule. WotC bought TSR (as we are all aware), ED competes with AD&D
and ED is not (despite our best efforts) a profitable product line. WotC
has a habit of canceling unprofitable lines (remember when they yanked
Ars Magica 4th ed. *after* it went to the printer), so they'll probably
ditch ED after they buy FASA. We can hope that some other gaming company
with a conscience will pick up the line and continue it (and I hope
they'll publish any manuscripts that have already been written but not
yet printed; I worked hard on Secret Societies). If they somehow decide
to keep ED and the existing ED development intact, then I will finally
believe that miracles really happen.<<<
Okay, let's clear up some errors here...
First off, *if* WotC were to purchase FASA, why would that mean the end of
Earthdawn? Just because it's competitive with AD&D? I don't think so.
If WotC is really trying to become a megacorp, the closest equivalent we
might compare them to is a company like Hasbro, who own *many* other game and
toy companies, including Parker Brothers and Milton Bradely. These two
companies have competitive products, yet we don't see Hasbro killing off
games of one company that compete with another. I believe the same would hold
true if WotC were to buy FASA.
Also, I feel I should point out that when WotC pulled the plug on its RPG
lines, Ars Magica 4th Edition was NOT at the printer. It was close to being
ready, but it hadn't gone to the printer yet. (Of course according to sources
close to Atlas Games, it wasn't all that close to being finished, but that's
a different topic).
>>>Of course, everyone at FASA (especially Lou) will deny this story, 'cause
it probably means their jobs if they confirm it. I suppose that if there
were a single good thing about this, it's the fact that it's not
happening until after the Thera sourcebook reaches the shelves.<<<
Well, you're right about one thing. I'm denying it. But *NOT* because I
fear for my job, but because it's NOT TRUE. Plain and simple.
BTW, even if it was true, I couldn't confirm nor deny anything, and in
fact, a non-commital response would probably be a bigger hint about the truth
than any denial could ever be.
Hope this clears up some things,
Lou Prosperi
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 21:58:34 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: FASA FOR SALE - NOT!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From: FASALou@***.com
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:37:31 -0400 (EDT)
To: earthdawn@***ts.iquest.com
Subject: Re: [EarthDawn] Disheartening News
Reply-to: earthdawn@***ts.iquest.com
Tom Harrison writes:
>>>I think, my friend, that you have been the victim of another insidious
rumor. Of course, I could be wrong - such is the nature of rumors. But in
any case, I feel that ED has more to fear from FASA than WotC.<<<
Uh, would you care to explain this last line? Do you some issues with the
manner in which FASA is handling Earthdawn? I'm NOT being oversensitive
(which is my trademark reaction), I honestly want to know what you mean by
this.
Curious,
Lou Prosperi
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 21:58:35 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Off to Texas!!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Well I'm off to Texas..I'll be gone for about 10 days..Or so..See ya
later...
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:01:13 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] well, it might be...
In-Reply-To: <33CEB5DF.3AF2@********.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 05:16 PM 7/17/97 -0700, Caric wrote:
#Fisher, Victor wrote:
#>
#> Sorry, guys!
#> Dammit, thought I'd gotten that bug outta my mailer's system!
#> Guess you'll be glad not to hear from me for awhile, till I get this
#> thing nixed.
#> To my players, I'll make sure you don't have to waid thru any more >>>>,
#> after this message, so don't fret.
#> Thanks for the notice, Caric.
#>
#> Kohl, taking out 'BIG MAMA', and going to have a chat with the boys in
#> Systems!
#
#If you write directly, it doesn't do it. It's only when you reply to
#something else. I dunno what's causeing it. Hopwfully it's something
#simple, I wouldn't want you to run off and not mail us anymore. :)
Are you sure it's not some sort of "Auto-Format"
I havent used outlook in a while, so I forget how it works
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:59:11 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] Fish & Chips (Was Re: Hacking)
In-Reply-To: <199707170913.LAA19078@**********.xs4all.nl>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
#>At 11:14 AM 7/17/97 +0100, you wrote:
#The only way to eat chips is with mayonaise or with peanut sauce...
NOOOOOoooooOOOOOO
Tomato Sauce or gravy or chicken salt
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:05:05 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: A New Thread for Gurth
In-Reply-To: <11122.199707171200@****.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:00 PM 7/17/97 +0100, you wrote:
#|which makes me ask the question, what countries besides Australia was that
#|movie called "Flying High"?
#
#
#
#Flying high???
#
#What was "Airplane II: the sequal" called?
Flying High 2
what else?
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:19:32 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Designs [was: Re: We Don't Need No
Stinkin'Munchies!!!]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:52 PM 7/17/97 -0400, Victor wrote:
>Top Cat ranted, standing upon podium, beating chest:
Now now, Victor, it was all rather logical and nice...
>Design the campaign, work with the players to get the characters to
>mesh, then go from there... formula for a perfect campaign.
>To which Kohl replys:
>Okay! First off, I've got to say, TopCat, you bring a whole new
>meaning to GM fasism!
You forgot the "c" in fascism and no, I don't...
>Design the campaign, design out the characters, dictate who goes and
>knows where and what? Why don't you just play all the PCs and NPCs yourself?
I don't make the characters. I just design the campaign (if I'm running it
that is). The players design the characters, I just provide the campaign
setting and "ok" characters for it. I don't dictate who goes where or does
what either. I do, however play the NPCs. I'm the GM, it's what I do.
Where you getting all this from, Victor? My words are nowhere near what
you've interpreted them as...
>The whole point of the game is to allow the players to run a character
>they LIKE to run, WITHIN REASON. NOT dictate to them what they can and cannot
>have or do!
Perhaps your point of the game is this, but if the GM doesn't enjoy running
the game then it's all rather moot, don't you think? It should be enjoyed
by all. A campaign is proposed by a GM. Anyone who wants in it makes a
character. If nobody wants in it, the campaign never gets going and a
different campaign or game is played. If some people want in and others
don't, that's fine and the game gets played while the others play a
different campaign or game.
>I ran into a GM like that during a gaming convention in Buffalo, when I
>was visiting a couple of friends. He had the whole thing laid out to a T,
>with NO flexibility for personalization whatso ever! And it was a tournament
>game slated for 3 nights! having been a Gm for awhile, I can tell someone new
>to the game, so I figured I'd play dumb, like I'd wasn't familiar with the
>game, and just enjoy the ride [OKAY, I'm an EVIL person! Never said I was an
>angel.]
Conventions are not exactly the kind of places to go to find an open-ended
sort of game. Events are designed to be run a certain way and to utilize
certain characters toward a certain end. They aren't wide-open campaigns
nor could they be such as most must fit into a 2-4 hour time slot. Con
tournaments are a really bad example for you to use here. Even
company-sponsored games hand out pre-made characters and have a solid
plotline to follow with little room for one's creative urges. There just
isn't enough time for one to plumb the depths of character.
Also, tournament events are run in a manner where characters gain points
based on how they go through the motions in comparison to other players who
have also gone through said tournament. They have to be run fairly strictly
for that simple reason, the characters have to be static, as do the NPCs.
That's how they work...
>But as the game went on, it became more apparent that the whole thing
>was just set up so the Gm could see HIS characters played out in HIS story
>HIS way. Having a viscious streak a klick long, I proceeded to use my
>familiarity with the game, mechanics and setting, to 'accelerate'a little
>chaos into the game.
So the guy was a "Bad GM" and you chose to be "the annoying player".
Both
are out there and they'll make the game suck for anyone else involved. I
just avoid 'em and I don't emulate them in any way, shape, or form. Boy,
were you WAY off-base here... heh
> After the end of the first session, he asked me when we were leaving if
>I'd played before, and I said a little. I suggested he shouldn't be so heavy
>handed in pushing his players, and things would go easier. I was still
>enjoying myself, and thought the storyline was pretty decent.
> The following two days actually were a bit more fun. He allowed the rest
>of the group to tweek their characters to fit how they saw them [NOT power
>wise, but laterally, like a confidence man should have more than 3 Charisma
>and Social Ettiquette, instead of 6 Firearms, etc.]. When it was over,
>everyone had a good time. I ended up being voted, MUCH to my surprise [No,
>really!] best player for the tourney.
[snip]
Of course they awarded you, it sounds like you singlehandedly did the event
yourself. You also argued to get their characters stats improved and
everyone likes that. You really thought that you wouldn't be voted best
player after doing the latter?
As a person who doesn't sign up for many con gaming events (I tend to head
toward seminars, but there are a few games that I like to hit), I would
never have found myself facing a GM who designed tournament characters
poorly for their purpose and arranged the thing as a showcase for his NPCs.
You, however, did. Now, there are two things that could be true here...
1) The GM really wasn't bad, but you perceived him as such mainly due to the
fact that you're unfamiliar with tournament-style gaming (your description
of what you saw and how it made you feel clearly expresses this).
2) He really was bad and, through your help, he experienced an epiphany and
changed his ways halfway through the event.
My guess is that #1 is true and that the guy just didn't think through his
premade PCs for the event and realized that they couldn't do what they were
required to do in this tournament event without some minor changes. He made
the changes and everything moved on from there.
>My self agrandizement aside [What?!? If there's anything around here
>bigger than my ego, I want it found and shot right now!], the point I'm
>TRYING to make is, a GM ruling with an IRON HAND doesn't ensure a MUNCHIE
>proof game, where everyone is compatible and gets along. Try the velvet glove
>instead of the mahogany stick. You might get better results. Of course you'll
>run into powergamers and munchies, it comes with the territory. That's life.
>Taking away a player's free will won't eliminate that.
I've never taken away a player's free will. If they want to play a
powergame or a munchkin game, they can find another campaign. If they want
in the current game they'll abide by the basic layout of the campaign. They
get to make their own characters, do their own things, and face the
consequences of their actions. I need no "iron hand" and there are no
munchkins in my game. There are powergamers, but the characters they play
aren't powergamed because the current campaign wasn't designed for
powergamed characters. People still get to play what they want to play
within the realm of the campaign.
Thankfully, I have an entire group of intelligent players who can handle, as
well as appreciate, a variety of campaigns within a variety of games. There
are always other games to play. If they don't want to play mine, they play
someone else's. If I don't want to play their's, I play someone else's.
Everyone gets to do what they want how they want to do it. No player is
forced into something he doesn't want to do, no GM is forced into running
something he doesn't want to run. See how this works? Gaming Utopia...
> The game I'm running now, I set the parameters and pretty much let
>everyone design out their own characters. It was MY job as GM to make a
>scenerio that would eventually unite them in a common cause, and maybe
>forming links lasting long after the story's over. Maybe it will work; maybe
>it won't. But I figure I'd at least try, and if my players like the
>'experiment' I think I did okay.
I find it positively hilarious that you say "I set the parameters" (which is
all that I do and all that I stated that I do) and yet, you don't set the
parameters at all because you claim to let everyone design their characters
pretty much at will. You don't set the parameters because there's a good
chance that they might come from places all over the world and would have no
reason to be anywhere near each other let alone working with each other.
You could have characters that, due to their backgrounds, despise each other
and they'd kill or refuse to work with each other from the very start. You
could have to set up opposition to combat powergamed characters that will
instantly obliterate the characters that aren't powergamed or you could have
to set up the opposition at the levels of non-powergamed characters and
watch as the powergamers kill them all before they get to act. Sounds like
a terrible start to a campaign to me...
Characters should have a location in common, similar power (not combat,
power... there is a difference) levels, and should have a campaign premise
that they fit into. Once they have that, the campaign can begin. Contacts
in common help a great deal as do similar backgrounds, but neither is required.
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:19:46 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Designs [was: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin'
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 04:20 PM 7/17/97 -0600, Mike wrote:
>This is exactly the approach that we have always taken, especially with
>Shadowrun. The setting lends itself more to this type of setup than
>many other game settings. It also encourages the players to think more,
>and since this is a mental game anyway, thinking is good.
Agreed :)
>> Now this sounds like I am borderline absurdly flexible in what I'll let into
>> my game. Remember that I set the game, then have the characters made to fit
>> it, then let it play out.
>Do you make all of the characters yourself to fit the campaign, or do you
>give some guidelines for the players to use?
Hell no! I'm too lazy to do that. I guess it could be said that I give
guidelines though it's more me giving help in chargen.
>> If you make the characters before teh setting, you can have continuity and
>> association problems (why would an ex-Wildcat hang out with an ex-SEAL and a
>> mage from Tir Tairngire). You can also run into power-level problems (Troll
>> Tank and GBD join a group of gangers...ugh).
> I'll share what we did on our newest campaign. The GM (Travis this time)
>announced that he would be running a campaign and told us what the
>specific limitations were, as well as which optional/house rules we
>should pay close attention to while creating our characters. He did
>not specify what type of characters we should make.
>[snip]
> We came up with a refreshing mix: 2 hermetic mages, 1 PhysAd, 1 rigger,
>a decker (who's now an NPC), a face-man and 2 B&E types. Note, we do
>not have a single street sam or merc. We've put some 20 hours into this
>campaign so far and the group is working like a finely tuned machine.
>It promises to be one of the more enjoyable campaigns too, if we can
>keep it going and not be disturbed by too many spouses too often...
Sounds good to me. The GM gave the players a level to be at and rules to
know. I assume that he also gave basic campaign information (e.g. B&E team,
Lone Star undercover, gangers, organized crime, whatever). That's all I
did. I run it at a "realistic" level where it's bad to be noticed and
things that are tough are *tough*. The city was chosen beforehand, as was
the number of chargen points. I didn't tell anyone what to make, nor would
I have done that. I helped almost everyone make their characters, though
that was because I was asked to do so.
>In our group experience, doing things this way has always been the best
>method when starting a campaign. We've experimented with the GM handing
>out pre-made characters for the players to use and that didn't last
>too long. In fact, only one character made it out of that campaign
>to play in one or two more (Cherry, the psycho gang chick...).
I'll never hand out premades for a campaign. I do it at conventions all the
time though, because not doing so there *will* cause all manner of
headaches. ("I play a first edition physad" is something all GMs love to
hear...)
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:15:41 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: listserv idea was Re: Sorry....
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970717124540.006f1f60@***>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
#If the additional text lines is about four lines and it's on every message,
#when someone posts a short message like yours (which I quoted for
#illustration) you get five lines of message, sixteen lines of your sig
#(counting from the em-dash to the last blank line), and four more lines
#from the list server. Result? Five lines of new content, twenty lines of
#information we'd see on dozens of messages.
but if it were one additional line, say,
Administrivia : <email address>
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:24:30 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:12 PM 7/17/97 EDT, you wrote:
>On Wed, 16 Jul 1997 17:07:14 -0500 TopCat <topcat@***.NET> writes:
>[a bunch of stuff ending with.....
>>Now what's more pathetic, Adam: having fun playing a realistic campaign
>>of SR or having fun playing a powergamer/munchkin campaign? ]
>Ah, shut the hell up. And drop that lame-ass condecending
>ego/attitude/arrogance crap.
Heh... no. Fuck off ;)
>If you want to debate game powerlevels and gaming styles then be my
>guest, just do it with out resorting to calling anyone in opposition to
>your gaming preferences/styles "pathetic".. it does nothing to strengthen
>your argument (never mind that it's topic is entirely a matter of
>opinion)
Just using our own beloved admins words... perhaps take that up with him?
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:30:44 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:41 PM 7/17/97 -0400, Keith wrote:
>In a message dated 97-07-17 11:37:51 EDT, topcat@***.NET (TopCat) writes:
>> I complain when they try to pass off powergaming as the norm and ingrain
>> powergaming-level or powergaming beneficial rules in the base systems of a
>> game. Powergame all you like, but keep that crap out of the rules and
>> don't
>> even think that it's the way the game was designed to be played. It is a
>> way that it can be played, but it wasn't meant to be.
>Hey Topcat, the "Game" was designed to be played at ALL those levels you
have
>mentioned. It is -Perceived- however a given player or group of players
>chooses to do so.
And as long as certain changes don't occur it'll be able to be played at all
of those levels well into the future of the game. If they do occur, then
powergaming becomes the standard. There are low-, mid-, high, and
munch-level campaigns out there. Shadowrun as it is now appeals to all.
Start making the base rules high-level instead of mid-level and everything
has to jump a notch in power to stay balanced. The game becomes as Rifts or
D&D.
Here's a quote from Mike Broadwater which explains my personal standpoint on
this quite well...
"I don't think that TC's arguement is against the way they play, but it's
against rules being dictated to everyone because of the way they play
(Spells should be stronger because they run a game where the opponents are
stronger). Bob is right, an average spell cast by an average caster should
have an average effect on an average person. That keeps it balanced. If
you want your magic to do more, then be a better caster, or change the
balance in a direction you favor. But, if you start out with the system
unbalanced, that requires more effort on more people to change the system
back to a point where it is balanced. And in the mean time, you have
people pimping the rules for all they're worth."
Get where I'm coming from?
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 00:33:25 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:30:44 -0500"
<199707180430.XAA05370@*******.fgi.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
You wrote:
> Here's a quote from Mike Broadwater which explains my personal standpoint on
> this quite well...
> "I don't think that TC's arguement is against the way they play, but it's
> against rules being dictated to everyone because of the way they play
> (Spells should be stronger because they run a game where the opponents are
> stronger). Bob is right, an average spell cast by an average caster should
> have an average effect on an average person. That keeps it balanced. If
> you want your magic to do more, then be a better caster, or change the
> balance in a direction you favor. But, if you start out with the system
> unbalanced, that requires more effort on more people to change the system
> back to a point where it is balanced. And in the mean time, you have
> people pimping the rules for all they're worth."
> Get where I'm coming from?
Y'know, I think I've vehemently disagreed with you on occasion, Bob, but that
makes sense and I agree completely. If the system starts at a simple balance,
it's easy to modify to what you want (I modify games a lot, and some *are* a
pain because they rely too much on the balance expected of the characters in
the campaign). SR is currently comfy as-is, power-wise, and tinkering should
be kept to things which don't alter that balance in favor of any sort of
character, imo.
I hope this was a little more than a 'me too'.
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:38:56 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Designs
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:07 PM 7/17/97 -0400, Keith wrote:
>In a message dated 97-07-17 19:25:45 EDT, topcat@***.NET (TopCat) writes:
>>If you make the characters before teh setting, you can have continuity and
>>association problems (why would an ex-Wildcat hang out with an ex-SEAL and
>>a mage from Tir Tairngire). You can also run into power-level problems
>>(Troll Tank and GBD join a group of gangers...ugh).
>Ya know TC, that whole attitude is a bit strange, but then again we are
>talking about the differences in GM approach I think. Sometimes, especially
>when the group is really flexible, the ex-Wildcat, the ex-Seal and mage from
>Tir getting together can be a really shit-kicking game in and unto itself.
Okay, here's how this would look... ex-Wildcat finds an ex-SEAL and they
want to work together. Couldn't find two groups perhaps more opposed to
each other (NAN and CAS). Throw in a Tir mage (everyone hates the elves)
and it's a party! There's no real reason for them to be together (and yes,
anyone can come up with some BS story that'll link 'em, but BS by any other
name still stinks).
> Oh, and by the way, I don't know what kind of stats your examples would
>have, but they are -MOST- definitely not the average shadowrunner according
>to the examples you've given.
Ahh, but Shadowrun isn't just for Shadowrunners anymore (kinda like beer and
breakfast that way)... I think we all know that much by now. Also, in
comparison to some of the things I've seen posted here, GBD and Troll Tank
might well mesh right into a lot of campaigns out there.
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:59:42 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: listserv idea was Re: Sorry....
In-Reply-To: <yam7137.214.136476600@****.amigaworld.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
zAt 18:52 7/17/97 -0500, you wrote:
>To solve such postings from the beginning would it not be better
>if the listserver put a sig of its own at the bottom of each mail thats
states
>how to get help or how to signoff?
>
>The rolemasterlist does just that and no such questions had arise since then
>and I thing its worth the little more lines.
Another mailing list I'm on does it, and people still ask every week how to
unsubscribe, or they say it does't work.
Its not an idea I would throw out, but I really don't think its all that
nessesary.
-Adam
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:23:44 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Dragons at the end of an age
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---Max Rible wrote:
>
> At 11:12 7/17/97 -0500, Mike Elkins wrote:
> >>What exactly happens to dragons (greater or
> >>lesser) at the end of the age
Possible Spoilers for Maria Mercurial and others.
W
E
L
L
M
A
Y
B
E
N
O
T
R
E
A
L
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
Still, I thought I'd play it safe. For those who have read the
background for Perinwyr and Kyle Morgan, remember that it describes
Perianwyr waking from hibernation and being real hungry so he gorged
himself on a nearby herd of sheep.
Now, Perianwyr isn't a great dragon so this would seem to imply that
both great and lesser dragons both go into a sleep or stasis during
times of low/no mana.
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 01:49:32 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Argh!!!
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I hate you all!
I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
Argh!!!!!!!!!!
:]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 00:57:50 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: I guess it had to happen sometime;
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I don't know if I just don't watch enough tv or what, but I saw an add
for "Magic The Gathering" on the sci-fi channel. If WotC is going to buy
FASA, they better stop advertising and save their money. I assume that
WotC does the card game. I don't play myself. I don't have the money to
indulge a Shadowrun addiction and a Magic addiciton. Some of my freinds
that are really into magic have sunk hundreds of $$ into that game. If
had sunk that much I would have an almost complete library.
regards
Bill
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 01:13:44 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Court Schuett <schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Demon Magic - Spoilers for anyone in a ENEMY type game!!!!!
In-Reply-To: <970717203516_243014202@*******.mail.aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:35 PM 7/17/97 -0400, Keith wrote:
>
>A question came up to me concerning ED/SR crossovers with the Horrors. Those
>Horrors in the book (Harley and all), have multiple attacks, but the attacks
>were considered "slighter" than a principle attack. I may be remembeing
>incorrectly on this, I admit.
I just happened to have my copy of Harley's Back sitting on the computer
desk, so... :)
The Crawlers go at 7+4d6, fast, an average of 21, that's 3 times a round,
plus they get two attacks for every init. phase, now we're talking 6 times
a round, plus, if both of those hit, they get an extra, for a maximum of 9
times a round. Granted the third attack *just* reduces reaction. :) Well,
they get 13 attack dice, plus a threat rating of 6, that's 19 dice just to
attack. I don't know many runners that could take that. So the runners
are probably going to get hit twice, and maybe slowed down a bit. The only
thing that they don't get is a reach modifier. If they had that, they'd be
just about unstoppable. Personally I kicked it down to 1 attack a phase.
I just couldn't kill the characters at the very beginning of the whole
adventure. But don't tell them that, they still think they're really
tough. :) *shhh* :)
>Anyway, multiple action combat exists in SR, it just requires more. Karma
>and Experience in this case. Ambidexterity, Off-Hand, Blind-Fighting, Zero-G
>Ops (for the space farers) are all optional "special skills" that could be
>developed, and quickly allow for a character to "keep up" with the Horrors.
> Okay, maybe not the "Named Horrors", but the one's so far...sure...
The only problem with these, at least Ambi, off-hand, is that they take
incredible (and I think mostly rightfully so) penalties to attack, making
it almost impossible to hit. BTW, what is Zero-G fighting? Must have
missed that. Is that in the Missions adventures? Is that any good?
>-Keith
P.S. No prob about no spoilers, my group already ran through HB.
-=Court
/* Court Schuett, a totally modern boy.
schuett@*****.ivcc.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If I was God no one would doubt it
We wouldn't need church to get
The mystery that we once knew
The something we forget
-Too Much Joy
***************************************************************************/
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 01:26:23 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Court Schuett <schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970718014901.26dfecfc@*****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:49 AM 7/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I hate you all!
>I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
>Argh!!!!!!!!!!
>:]
>Bull
Oh that's good. :) But you should have seen some of the other ideas. You
got off pretty easy. :) There are some truly evil and imaginitive people
out there.
What'd the wife and kids have to say about this one?
-=Court
/* Court Schuett, a totally modern boy.
schuett@*****.ivcc.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If I was God no one would doubt it
We wouldn't need church to get
The mystery that we once knew
The something we forget
-Too Much Joy
***************************************************************************/
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 02:32:20 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> > Whoa...back the truck up. The what? Have you ever played Dark
Conspiracy?
> > If you're going to say that DC is a rip off of Sr, then perhaps you
better
> > mention how Sr is a rip off of Cyberpunk and AD&D. Or are you just
> > mindlessly rude?
> And DC is definitely not a ripoff of SR anyway, that's plain silly.
Yep, I played a LOT of DC when it first came out, and it left me cold.
Poor systems "borrowed" from T2000, lack of any useful Psionics for PC's
and the need to buy several sourcebooks to actually make the game playable
left me quite disillusioned with what could have been a great game.
You mean to say that you don't find it slightly curious that GDW dumped DC
onto the market almost immediately after SR became hot? Have you read
Stackpole's "Fiddleback" Trilogy set in the DC world? It's VERY similar to
SR IMO.
Oh, and SR is actually a ripoff of Cyberpunk, and Tolkien, get it right!
;-)
Did I ever say that being a ripoff was a BAD thing? No.
On the whole I thought that DC had a LOT of potential, but was hindered by
a shabby rules system, and a lack of support.
Oh yeah, one more thing. I'm never "mindlessly" anything.
My rudeness is carefully thought out just so as to give seizures to
hypersensitive people defending dead games.
That pretty much sums up my feelings on the merits of DC. It died, SR
lives. Nuff said.
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:53:08 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: Oh Do Shut Up Already!!!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I really couldn't care less who thinks who is egotistical. Keep it off
the list, it has nothing to do with Shadowrun. Differing views are just
those. Differing views. If you don't agree, give a read, throw it in the
back of your closeted mind, and go on with life. Don't beat the fact
that you don't agree, or have strong opinions about someone on list.
(Here Spike, you can have you list.member.grumpy hat back)
And fyi, I enjoy reading the posts, I get an insight to what others
views are, even if they aren't mine.
--
Dvixen Code-word : Weevil-chuck. dvixen@********.com
"I'd rather have a face people fear." - Ivanova - Babylon 5
Vodka corrupts. Abolut Vodka corrupts absolutely.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 01:51:21 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I'll admit I never played DC (or for that matter a lot of other RPGs on
the market) but I do play SR and was just wondering.
Cyberpunk defiantly had it's influence on SR but where is Tolken and
AD&D in it? (I played the comp. game of tolken's, never got around to
the flesh version.) could you straighten me out? Thanks
Caun :}
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 03:03:53 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> I'll admit I never played DC (or for that matter a lot of other RPGs on
> the market) but I do play SR and was just wondering.
> Cyberpunk defiantly had it's influence on SR but where is Tolken and
> AD&D in it? (I played the comp. game of tolken's, never got around to
> the flesh version.) could you straighten me out? Thanks
Your'e kidding, right? ;-)
Elves, trolls, etc. ... these weren't just things created by Gary Gygax for
AD&D.
Tolkien's Lord of the Rings Trilogy has had an influence in nearly every
modern fantasy novel and game.
If you really haven't read The Hobbit, and the Trilogy, you owe it to
yourself to do so.
After all, then you'll understand why no one wants to see Imoortal Elves in
SR! ;-)
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 02:22:01 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I read the Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings (not the next two though,
school kicked in and never got back to them) but I figured that most
races were already conceived when Tolken wrote his masterpieces, weren't
they the based on mythology? I personally never doubted in them (I was
grown up on Fantasy) He does have a great influence over all Fantasy
though, you're right, Thanks J. R.R. Tolken, (RIP) what about AD&D in SR
I can't spot anything except they started RPG as Tolken apparently
started the Fantasy genre. That all the connection?
Caun :}
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:10:25 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Define "munchkin"
In-Reply-To: <1A13CC30B8@**.opp.psu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Brett Borger said on 8:11/17 Jul 97...
> > that adds 10 to his Quickness and
> > +5D6 to his Reaction, which has been magic-proofed so no magic can affect
> > him, and who is firing special armor-piercing EX explosive rounds
> > with an orichalcum jacket and a FAB core from the Vanquisher is
> > probably a munchkin.
>
> Probably?
Okay, "most likely a munchkin" then. But I'm not going to say "definitely
a munchkin" because I believe in almost never saying never :)
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:10:25 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Define "munchkin"
In-Reply-To: <yam7137.2548.136476600@****.amigaworld.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Barbie said on 18:51/17 Jul 97...
> I would define a munchkin as someone who wants the most powerfull
> being in the universe under his controll.
> He wants all at an instand and for free, if he can`t get it he will cheat to
> get it.
I'd add that the munchkin probably doesn't think of it that way -- he or
she will likely think that such a character is cool, without consciously
going through a book looking for rules to break.
> The other players and the gm are just tools for him to live out his
> profile neurosis.
Only if they let him, and my guess is that you'll find munchkins mostly
in new groups and in groups who don't have much or even any contact with
other roleplayers.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 03:29:33 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: GEEK CODE?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On all your messages I get this at the bootom of the message:
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version 3.1:
> GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
> Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
what is it, why do I get it, and does anybody else find it anoying or
even get it?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 01:48:04 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: Re: GEEK CODE?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Caun Haskins wrote:
>
> On all your messages I get this at the bootom of the message:
>
> > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> > Version 3.1:
> > GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
> > Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
> > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
>
> what is it, why do I get it, and does anybody else find it anoying or
> even get it?
It's the Geek Code, which was invented/whatever by the person resonsible
for bringing ShadowRN into existance. It's a way of telling everyone
things about yoursefl with very little space.
More info at:
http://krypton.mankato.msus.edu/~hayden/.codes/geek3.1.html
(Tho the site was down when I post this. Should be up soon, I hope)
--
Dvixen Code-word : Weevil-chuck. dvixen@********.com
"I'd rather have a face people fear." - Ivanova - Babylon 5
Vodka corrupts. Abolut Vodka corrupts absolutely.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 02:46:31 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: GEEK CODE?
In-Reply-To: <33CDE5EE.7C087F8D@*********.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:29 7/17/97 -0600, you wrote:
>On all your messages I get this at the bootom of the message:
>
>> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
>> Version 3.1:
>> GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
>> Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
>> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
>
>what is it, why do I get it, and does anybody else find it anoying or
>even get it?
Its Robert Haydens invention, to truly show how geeky you are. The letters
and symbols stand for different things. You get it because its in Gurth's
sig, and in mine, and in many other peoples. I find it rather funny,
because you can learn things about other people without actualy asking.
The URL for learning more about it is at
http://krypton.mankato.msus.edu/~hayden/geek.html
-Aj
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 18:27:08 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Totems
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970718000038.006de63c@*****.com.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 00:00 18/07/97 +1000, Glenn Munro wrote:
>I have to disagree here. Hermetic mages study to learn their magic often
>using mathematical formulas and the like. Those that even bother to try you
>would expect to have average and above willpowers. Then with the shamanic
>tradition why would a totem choose low willpowered individuals? The totem
^^^^^^^
>wants to advance its own cause and would choose the best people for that
>job and people with low willpower generally would not suit.
<grin> What?!?! Damn. I thought totems were just a convenient mental
magical crutch for the shaman. No more real than any other hallucination.
</grin>
Seriously though. Have the members of this list concluded that the totems
are real - objectively and substantively real? This seems a bit too AD&Dish
for me.
Chris
_______________________________________________________________
Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 01:59:37 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: Re: GEEK CODE?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Adam J wrote:
> The URL for learning more about it is at
> http://krypton.mankato.msus.edu/~hayden/geek.html
Damnit! That would explain why the one I have isn't working.
--
Dvixen Code-word : Weevil-chuck. dvixen@********.com
"And I thought First Ones were rare." - Ivanova - Babylon 5
First High Priest of the Church of the Squooshy Ball.
Been there, done that, got the tshirt, wore it out. Now what do I wear?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:19:54 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Clen Cook <Clen@******.CO.ZA>
Subject: Munchkins - (Slight Rant)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Let's face it - weren't we all Munchkins in the beginning?
I know I was. Create an AD&D character - something unique
and guaranteed to hack the other players off - like a Ninja
or something ridiculous like that. Give him so many abilities,
weapons and skills that he could conceivably take over the
world by himself - and GO WILD!
That was fun, for a while. But then I grew up, and started
role-playing. Most of the people I've played with have gone
through that "power" phase. But we got over it, and enjoyed
playing varied characters. Everything from hopeless rejects
to mighty heroes etc etc . . .
Hopefully some of the munchkins out there will either grow up
themselves, or meet a benevolent GM who knows how to play, and
they'll be willing to "learn".
Clen
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 04:17:48 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Totems
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> What?!?! Damn. I thought totems were just a convenient mental
> magical crutch for the shaman. No more real than any other hallucination.
>
Wow this calls into question how we perceive magic! are very beliefs!!
well me personally, I believe that totems are actual spirits that guide
their shaman through life. (shaman talking) but if you are a hermetic
mage and think that magic is just impersonal ethernic (how do you spell
that?) energy, than it's merely a hallucination, whether real or not
they can effect life for me and that makes them real enough! !! !!!well
as I've said I haven't played much D&D so that I can't effectively
comment on. but I'll ask this, Is this a bad thing? (I really wand to
know)
enough said?
Caun :}
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:31:59 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Addiction
In-Reply-To: <19970717.175015.2742.0.arcaneacuity@****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Charles R Joseph said on 17:22/17 Jul 97...
> >NOBODY
> >using those rules will live longer than 10 weeks once addicted, because one
> >physical and one stun box are lost from the Condition Monitor each
> >week...
>
> Geez...that's awfully realistic.
How do you figure that, then?
> I can see drugs being a bit more potent in 2058, but Christ...can't have
> much of a drug culture with everyone dying all the time. I guess they
> have their reasons for wanting to discourage junkie characters, same as
> with any other "bad" element. One has to keep up appearances.
I think it's PR -- if the right-wingers in the US see FASA, a hideously
evil gaming company, bring out material that seems to encourage drug use,
sales will suffer. Oh, well, there's always house rules :)
> I don't know about that. It seems to me that there should be
> more mental and less physical side effects. However, since my character
> uses both BTLs and chemical drugs, that would only fuck my character up
> even more...which I don't particularly mind as long as he still has some
> semblance of usefulness, real or imagined, to the rest of the group.
Addictions, per Shadowtech, are divided into physical and mental,
requiring either a Body or Willpower test from time to time. BTLs would
be mental addictions, though I don't really have any stats for them
(something else to do, I think).
> I see...considering that my character would be dead already from
> these rules (he's been an addict for about a year prior to game time), I
> don't think I'll be using them.
That is exactly what my house rules attempt to fix, but you'll still need
Shadowtech to know what all the stats for the drugs mean.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:31:59 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells
In-Reply-To: <199707172112.QAA03824@*******.fgi.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
TopCat said on 16:12/17 Jul 97...
> I've never said that powergamer means munchkin (why does everyone think
> I said this?).
Maybe because many people think they're the same thing? I don't have a
problem with powergaming, if it fits in with the rest of the game, but
overstepping the line and going munchkin is something I heavily
discourage...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:31:59 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
In-Reply-To: <33CDCEEF.47EEC307@*********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Caun Haskins said on 1:51/17 Jul 97...
> I'll admit I never played DC (or for that matter a lot of other RPGs on
> the market) but I do play SR and was just wondering.
> Cyberpunk defiantly had it's influence on SR but where is Tolken and
> AD&D in it? (I played the comp. game of tolken's, never got around to
> the flesh version.) could you straighten me out? Thanks
Don't look only at games, in fact it's better not to look at other games
at all. What you should do is go to a library and pick up three books by
William Gibson: Neuromancer, Count Zero, and Mona Lisa Overdrive. Read
those and you'll see the cyberpunk roots of SR; then read all three books
of the Lord Of The Rings trilogy and there's most of the fantasy element
that's in SR.
Sure, AD&D is the archetypal fantasy RPG, but that doesn't mean every
other RPG in the world takes its ideas from it (if only because that would
make T$R's lawyers' day...). In fact much of the ideas behind AD&D are
obviously taken from Tolkien, but changed around a bit so as not to break
any rights owned by Tolkien Enterprises (for example, you can't call a
race "hobbits," but "halflings" is okay).
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:31:59 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: listserv idea was Re: Sorry....
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970717225942.006f6908@****.lis.ab.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Adam J said on 22:59/17 Jul 97...
> Another mailing list I'm on does it, and people still ask every week how to
> unsubscribe, or they say it does't work.
> Its not an idea I would throw out, but I really don't think its all that
> nessesary.
What about this suggested bi-weekly "How to reply to messages" post? If
you still plan to go through with that, you could easily add three or four
lines saying how to unsubscribe, preferably at the start of the post.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 03:50:30 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: listserv idea was Re: Sorry....
In-Reply-To: <199707180930.LAA15112@**********.xs4all.nl>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:31 7/18/97 +0100, you wrote:
>What about this suggested bi-weekly "How to reply to messages" post? If
>you still plan to go through with that, you could easily add three or four
>lines saying how to unsubscribe, preferably at the start of the post.
Will do, Guruboy :)
As well as the command for 'help' :)
-Adam
Who slept through Thursday.
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:54:18 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Glenn Munro <eazy@*****.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OOC?
In-Reply-To: <tcppop3.378847@***.hydra.com.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Bull wrote:
>>In a message dated 97-07-17 11:08:55 EDT, you write:
>>
>><< And since we're all bandying about rumors like a bunch of old maids
>> gossiping, rumor has it that GW IS in trouble, due to their EVIL pricing
>> practices. >>
>At the moment, GW doesn't have any true problems... But they DO have a
lot of pissed off players who are desperately looking for Miniatures
Elsewhere for the games...
One company I've found is Enigma Miniatures (based in Canada). The do some
minis the right scale and feel for GW games. They plan to release BloodBowl
Minis as well. The stuff I bought was 1/3 the price of GW (yes that is
correct 1/3 the price). Decent quality too and should get better.
>
>GW has been doing some really BAD things... Like raising the price of
EVERY blister pack of mini's 50 cents, and raising all their boxed sets 10%
across the board. plus some of their newer mini's have some rediculous
prices, like the Green Knight. It's a REALLY cool looking and nicely done,
but at $20.00 for a single mounted mini, it's hideously overpriced...:(
>
>They have also stopped making or supporting several of their "smaller"
games, such as their Warhammer Quest and Blood Bowl games, which has
frustrated the gamers for those games.
>
>Plus, they went to direct distributorship, and then required a certain
amount to be ordered, thus makig it near impossible for smaller shops to
afford the mini's, thus they stopped carrying them.
>
>And now, GW is requiring stores to buy the newer blister packs in lots of
6, per blister. thus, a store has to buy 6 Elf Mage blisters...:( This is
really becoming a problem for the stores and gamers alike.
>
You forgot the bit how when a stores figures go above a certain point they
then decide to open a GW store nearby thus leaving the real gamestore in
the cold (but giving them the nifty title of 'support store')
>
>However, Warhamemr products have reached an all time high in popularity in
the US, which is part of the reason GW is getting greedy.
>
>Hopefully, GW will learn from TSR's mistakes. Otherwise, the giant of the
Mini Industry could find itself needing rescued, in which case I can
definately see WOTC bailing them out.
>
They better learn quick. From what I've seen this won't happen and WOTC
takes another step towards becoming a megacorp ;)
Quickfix
The man who made it did not want it;
The man who bought it did not use it;
The man who used it did not know it.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:05:42 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] [Well, it might be usefull][sort of] Reboot!
In-Reply-To:
<c=US%a=_%pÞSHAW%l=MSBOSTON1-970717225606Z-10137@*********.boston.deshaw.com>
from "Fisher,
Victor" at Jul 17, 97 06:56:06 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|Spike proclaimed!!!
|
|>The new season of REBOOT started today....
|>
|>All I can say is.....WATCH IT!!!!
|>
|>Kohl replys:
|> NEW REBOOT!!!
|> And I came into work early cause I thought nothing was on the tv.
|> ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
|> Thanks for the synopsis though! Guess it'll have to tide me over till I
|>can get to see it.
I hear the U.S. TV dates are in august sometime....
(We got it before you.... )
:-p
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:11:37 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] [Well, it might be usefull][sort of] Reboot!
In-Reply-To: <33CEAA2A.123@********.com> from "Caric" at Jul 17, 97
04:26:34 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|Fisher, Victor wrote:
|>
|
|<snip>
|
|You know I love you Vic, but this thing where all of your mail looks
|like a reply is driving my nuts. <weep, sob>
I've lost count of all the posts I've skipped that were nothing bo
quotes.....
The only reason I say the last one was because I sent it, and knew I hadn't
written the bits I hadn't.....
[If you know what I mean]
I wonder how many other people totally skip Vics posts, even if he has
something relevant or interesting to say.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:18:21 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: WotC's Acquisitiveness
In-Reply-To: <19970717.220657.17127.2.lobo1@****.com> from "John E
Pederson"
at Jul 17, 97 10:08:08 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:13:54 +1000 Lady Jestyr
|<jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU> writes:
|>Just thought you people might like to see an official FASA response on
|>this one...
|
|<snip rest of message>
|
|Yippee!!
Well... I think that effectively kills the thread....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:28:20 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: A New Thread for Gurth
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970717230505.007be250@***.iquest.net> from
"Jaymz" at
Jul 17, 97 11:05:05 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|#Flying high???
|#
|#What was "Airplane II: the sequal" called?
|
|Flying High 2
|
|what else?
Well, I would've at least hoped it'd be called "Flying High II, the sequal"
It was a jokey title after all....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:29:21 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: Demon Magic - Spoilers for anyone in a ENEMY type game!
Fisher, Victor writes
> Coming up...30 lines 'o' Spoilers. If you're not supposed to be looking
> at Horror/Enemy type stuff, or if you're involved in the module
> Harlequin's Back, Move Along, Move Along.!!!
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!End Spoilers...
>
i'll put them in.
> I'd say critters like Corpselights and Nomads COULD be considered
> precursers to 'true' Horrors, but they'd be EXTREMELY low level ones.
> It's been hinted in the Paranormal Animals of Europe, that the
> Wraith may be a harbinger of these nasty litle buggers as well.
Wraithlike spirits are mentioned in the ED intro that sound just like
the SR version so i don't think they are Horrors per se though they
are a similar astral nasty just a different one.
> BUT, keep in mind, the two times (to my knowledge) that actual
> stats for THE ENEMY have been displayed, these guys were downright
> TERRIFYING!!! And I'm a GM who LOVES to torment and test his players!
Actually only one 'true' Horror has got SR stats from FASA the one in
the 'Masquerade' section of HB. The rest of the thigs are merely
Horror constructs, though they are still pretty hard!
> I ran HARLEQUIN'S BACK for my group, and their first encounter
> almost left them TOTALLY devestated!
Yeah i found it more like an ED horror bash when i ran it, PC's
flying thought the air with the greatest of ease, then the guy with
the combat axe got to playing 'horror constuct' jack and it all got
over in time for Harlequin to do a bit of quick PC reconstruction.
> I don't think the SR World in general is ready for a full on
> invasion of The Enemy; not for sometime to come.
Very true, much more powerful magic to hide from them is required
along with things like spell matricies and some more tech would help,
as H comments (i have used my own not FASA's words) 2000 years with ED
magic and tech to make 'Star trek' look tame in many regards Earth
might win, now everyone but the great dragons are dead.
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:32:36 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: Demon Magic - Spoilers for anyone in a ENEMY type game!
Court Schuett writes
> At 10:43 PM 7/16/97 -0800, you wrote:
> >At 11:19 PM 7/16/97, Jaymz wrote:
> >>spioler space about the enemy
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#Well of COURSE they were. They were full blown horrors.
> >>#Even weaker horrors of Earthdawn'd be very nasty in shadowrun....
> >
> >Harlequins Back. Stats for Horrors and everything. Definitely nasty.
> >
> >David R. Lowe (dlowe@****.com)
> I agree that they were nasty, but I thought they were just constructs.
> Take a look at the similarities between the Crawlers, and Jethura
> Almost positive they are one in the same in which case, SR is in big
> trouble. Cause they really messed up my group of pretty darn powerful PCs,
> and our ED group can take several Jethura, null sweat.
The crawlers look pretty much the same but i suspect they are quite a
bit tougher than Jethura which can be beat up by low circle
characters, and there were 4 against the PC's in HB. I suspect stone
falsemen might be closer abilities wise (though they are a very
different thing). But with the ED stats handy i don't know my Ed
monsters well enough.
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:33:22 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970718014901.26dfecfc@*****.com> from "Bull" at
Jul 18,
97 01:49:32 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|I hate you all!
|
|I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
|
|Argh!!!!!!!!!!
|
|:]
Oh well.... Never mind....
Just don't start eating US, OK......
:)
|Bull
|--
|Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
|
|The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
^^^
Ahem...... Ork???
LOL
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:37:16 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: Demon Magic - Spoilers for anyone in a ENEMY type game!
J. Keith Henry writes
> In a message dated 97-07-17 09:39:39 EDT, schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU (Court
> Schuett) writes:
>
spoilers
> A question came up to me concerning ED/SR crossovers with the Horrors. Those
> Horrors in the book (Harley and all), have multiple attacks, but the attacks
> were considered "slighter" than a principle attack. I may be remembeing
> incorrectly on this, I admit.
>
> Anyway, multiple action combat exists in SR, it just requires more. Karma
> and Experience in this case. Ambidexterity, Off-Hand, Blind-Fighting, Zero-G
> Ops (for the space farers) are all optional "special skills" that could be
> developed, and quickly allow for a character to "keep up" with the Horrors.
> Okay, maybe not the "Named Horrors", but the one's so far...sure...
> -Keith
>
If required you could reduce the interaction delay from 10 for the ED
stuff with lots of attacks per round, PC's can get a maximum 2
actions in ED (except for claw frenzy which is just obscene) while
big horrors can get up to 5 physical + 5 spellcasting actions (though
about 6 total is more reasonable).
I did the one time i used a big (ish) horror, a physical action every
10, spellcasting actions 5 initiatives later, well had in not been
shot by an LMG, Vindicactor loading APDS and an ATGM in rappid
succession (yes the showdown was fixed so the PC's stood a chance, SR
magicians vs Horrors is a joke)
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:38:06 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970718012623.007fa210@*****.ivcc.edu> from "Court
Schuett" at Jul 18, 97 01:26:23 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|At 01:49 AM 7/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
|>I hate you all!
|>I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
|>Argh!!!!!!!!!!
|>:]
|>Bull
|
|Oh that's good. :) But you should have seen some of the other ideas. You
|got off pretty easy. :) There are some truly evil and imaginitive people
|out there.
|What'd the wife and kids have to say about this one?
Someone was even warped enought to suggest the mother-in-law move in!
Wendigo, or Mother-In-Law... Which would you prefer?
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:43:36 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: GEEK CODE?
In-Reply-To: <33CDE5EE.7C087F8D@*********.com> from "Caun Haskins" at Jul
17,
97 03:29:33 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|On all your messages I get this at the bootom of the message:
|
|> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
|> Version 3.1:
|> GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
|> Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
|> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
|
|what is it, why do I get it, and does anybody else find it anoying or
|even get it?
|
It's called the Geek code, and I wouldn't start dissing it, because it was
created by Our Original Fearless Leader and Creator of Shadowrn, Rob Hayden.
If you want a copy, tell me, and I'll e-mail it to you.
(Then you'll know more about us Geeks)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 08:39:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Angel Ramos y David Fayes <hansa@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Willpower & the Common Mage (was Re: [SR3] Combat Spells)
In-Reply-To: <199707172021.PAA32449@*******.fgi.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:21 PM 17/07/1997 -0500, TopCat wrote:
>At 12:00 AM 7/18/97 +1000, Glenn wrote:
>>>The average mage is just a person with the
>>>capability to use magic. There would be proportionately as many mundanes
>>>with a 6 Willpower as mages.
>
>>I have to disagree here. Hermetic mages study to learn their magic often
>>using mathematical formulas and the like. Those that even bother to try you
>>would expect to have average and above willpowers. Then with the shamanic
>>tradition why would a totem choose low willpowered individuals? The totem
>>wants to advance its own cause and would choose the best people for that
>>job and people with low willpower generally would not suit.
I agree with Topcat about mages (hermetic) having above average willpower
becuase of intense studies and I'm absolutly certain that Shaman totem
won't choose any below normal willpower creature.
[snip rest of comment from Topcat]
What topcat says IMHO should be the common way in 205X but anyone can play
his/her world as he/she sees fit him/her.
That's my little opinion about this.
Bye
Elven Mage
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:29:24 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@***01.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970718014901.26dfecfc@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
On 18 Jul 97 at 1:49, Bull wrote:
> I hate you all!
>
> I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
>
> Argh!!!!!!!!!!
>
> :]
Where's Sam Verner when you need him....
:)
--
===DREKHEAD==================================drekhead@***.net===
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
================================================================
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot
stomping on a human face...forever. -George Orwell
----------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 07:30:45 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
In-Reply-To: <199707181239.GAA21212@******> from "Spike" at Jul 18,
97 01:38:06 pm
Content-Type: text
Spike wrote:
|
| |
| |At 01:49 AM 7/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
| |>I hate you all!
| |>I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
| |>Argh!!!!!!!!!!
| |>:]
| |>Bull
| |
| |Oh that's good. :) But you should have seen some of the other ideas. You
| |got off pretty easy. :) There are some truly evil and imaginitive people
| |out there.
| |What'd the wife and kids have to say about this one?
|
| Someone was even warped enought to suggest the mother-in-law move in!
| Wendigo, or Mother-In-Law... Which would you prefer?
I'm gonna take that as a compliment :)
Bull, you got off *way* lucky.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:31:37 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Totems -Reply
>Seriously though. Have the members of this list
>concluded that the totems are real - objectively
>and substantively real? This seems a bit too
>AD&Dish for me.
Took me a minute to figure out what AD&D had
to do with it, and then I figured out you meant
clerics w/ "real" gods vs. magic users with "just"
magic.
Anyway, there are a few questions like this that
Shadowrun the game system is agnostic about:
Are totems real or figments, does conjuring
summon or create spirits, does magic follow
rules of nature or is it a thing of spirit and intent.
(Actually the answer to the last one, like "Is light
a particle or a wave?", is fairly clear: the answer
is "YES")
IMHO, if it were possible to devise an expirement
that would answer these questions, some PHd in
Thaumaturgy would have tried it already, and
FASA would have revealed the result. Therefore,
all such experements have been inconclusive.
Therefore, in my game, neither the characters
nor the players can know the answers to these
questions (although they can have opinions).
Totems come out of the collective unconscious,
and whether the sixth age has given these
archetypes (in the Jungian, not the SR sense)
actual identities isn't clear. Maybe a dog
shaman is simply in better contact with the
dog-like parts of humanities collective brains,
with the astral plane working like a giant
switchboard of ideas, concepts and information.
His subconscious becomes aware of something,
and presto--Dog appears in his mind to tell him.
Double-Domed Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:44:06 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: A WildCat, a Navy SEAL,
and a Tir mage go into a bar...[Was Long Range Game Designs]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
TopCat continues to froth at the mouth 8-0
'...ex-Wildcat finds ex-Seal and they want to work together.
Couldn't find two groups perhaps more opposed to working together (NAN
and CAS). Throw in a Tir mage (everyone hates the elves) and it's a
party! There's no reason for them to be together (and yes, anyone can
come up with some BS story that'll link 'em, but BS by anyother name
still stinks.'
To which Kohl replys:
First off, TopCat, The SEALS work for the UCAS, NOT CAS! Second, as
anyone whose actually been in the military can tell you, the prime
reason for these two disparate peoples for working together comes down
to one word...PROFESSIONALISM!
A spec forces commando, if the objectives or opposition were the
same, these two people would MUCH rather work together than with a bunch
of disorganized, improperly (if at all) trained, UNPROFESSIONAL
Shadowrunners [Yes, I know that there are many Sr groups that don't fit
this mold, but the military mentality, even a really loose one like
mine, tends to gravitate towards order of regimentation, as opposed to
the chaotic decisionmaking evidenced by your typical 'amateur' Shadowrun
team.].
If the Tir mage is also a former spook, works just as well. Not all
spec forces teams love and share a 'warm, fuzzy feeling' for each other,
BUT most are professional enough to work together to get the job done.
And who knows, after working with their opposite numbers for awhile,
they may just develop a grudging respect for one another. This would go
a long way to laying down more lasting links between the trio, than to
simply lump them all together as types that should get along and say,
you're a team.
Military, and spec forces in particular, are trained in a certain
discipline that most amateur shadowrunners have no wish to emulate.
[Look at Argent from Nigel Findley's books. He ran a team of
Shadowrunners that was almost totally composed of ex-military, and they
functioned like a well oiled machine. I'd say more, but then I'd need
spoilers :-].
You seem to think that anyone who can come up with a interesting
and CONVINCING storyline, OTHER than you, why these three should hang
together is full of BS! Now, if THAT isn't full of hubris, and a good
helping Mad Cow Kaka, I don't know what is! As a GM, you're supposed to
HELP the players find a reason to stick together. It's hard, and it
doesn't always work out, but that doesn't mean you aren't supposed to
try. And don't give me the reason that you don't have the time. I'm
pretty sure I'm a GOOD deal older than you are, and if anyone doesn't
have time to waste on foolishness, it's me.
Only a civilian would make an assumption like that these three
would have no reason to stick together as BS! [And NO, I'm NOT bashing
civilians; I'm one right now, and enjoy it quite fine, thank you!] I
suggest you take a look at the Shadowrun Military Page, and talk to a
few of those guys over there, so's you get a better idea what you're
meandering about.
Or, maybe I'm totally wrong, and they'll vindicate you. Who
knows...
Kohl
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:42:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michel Racicot <harlequin@*********.CA>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> I hate you all!
>
> I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
>
> Argh!!!!!!!!!!
>
> :]
ARRRRGHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhh!!!
A wendigo decker!!! RUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 07:58:26 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Attitude is Everything :)
In-Reply-To: <199707172112.PAA06454@******> from "TopCat" at Jul 17,
97 04:12:23 pm
Content-Type: text
TopCat wrote:
|
| I've never said that powergamer means munchkin (why does
| everyone think I said this?).
I think I know what the problem is :)
First, you have very strong opinions (a good thing).
You aren't afraid to voice these opinions (a good thing).
You seem to have a tendancy to "bunch" different nouns to talk about
something. In the Munchkin thread you used the words Munchkin,
Powergamer, and Over-powered in very close proximity. Ergo, the
belief that you equated Munchkin with Powergamer (which has since
been cleared up quite well).
You also tend to "wander" a little bit when communicating. It's a
good conversational style, but leads to misinterpretation when
discussing philosophy. And since you love to debate philosophy... :)
It's not any one thing, but a combination of attitude and style.
It's also a matter of people getting used to you.
Anyway, I'm not advocating that you should change, just letting you
know what I see.
And for everyone that butts heads with TC, read his posts as if
you're having a friendly chat with him over a beer (or a koolaid for
you youngters ;).
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 07:59:29 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: [OT] Trip
In-Reply-To: <199707172053.OAA05688@******> from "Shane Courtrille" at
Jul 7,
97 02:51:04 pm
Content-Type: text
Shane Courtrille wrote:
|
| Being in love... What a trip...
Make sure you use your turn signals ;)
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:00:38 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@***01.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] Trip
In-Reply-To: <199707181359.HAA22767@******>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
On 18 Jul 97 at 7:59, David Buehrer wrote:
> Shane Courtrille wrote:
> |
> | Being in love... What a trip...
>
> Make sure you use your turn signals ;)
And check your brakes. :)
--
===DREKHEAD==================================drekhead@***.net===
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
================================================================
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot
stomping on a human face...forever. -George Orwell
----------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 08:06:46 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Oh Do Shut Up Already!!!
In-Reply-To: <199707180644.AAA18354@******> from "Dvixen" at Jul 17,
97 11:53:08 pm
Content-Type: text
Dvixen wrote:
|
| And fyi, I enjoy reading the posts, I get an insight to what others
| views are, even if they aren't mine.
<aol>
Me too.
</aol>
(Copywrite by Spike Industries)
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 08:09:32 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
In-Reply-To: <199707172112.PAA06454@******> from "TopCat" at Jul 17,
97 04:12:23 pm
Content-Type: text
TopCat wrote:
|
| >Everybody's game is
| >different and you should respect their philosophies as much as you
| >want them to respect yours.
|
| I don't have to respect various gaming philosophies, just as I don't have to
| respect various people or practices. Not a very nice sentiment, I know, but
| it's the way I am and, I think, the way we all are to one degree or another.
| I don't respect munchkinous games and I have little respect if any for some
| of the powergames out there. Not respecting a given gaming philosophy and
| banning it from practice are two very different things though. I can't do
| the latter.
Okay, point taken :)
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 15:09:29 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Oh Do Shut Up Already!!!
In-Reply-To: <199707181406.IAA22999@******> from "David Buehrer" at Jul
18,
97 08:06:46 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|<aol>
|Me too.
|</aol>
|
|(Copywrite by Spike Industries)
Thanks for the CopyRIGHT message....
:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:10:15 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Design [Here it comes, TopCat!]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
TopCat ONCE again gets it wrong what I'm trying to say :-P
<snip, snip, snip some more, or what the hell, snip most of this
drivel!>
The only reason you find what I have to hilarious is because you
have NO idea what I'm trying to say!!! Setting the parameters means you
telling the players what the powe level of the game is, what [if any]
character types aren't really compatible with the whole storyline,
UNLESS the Player and Gm TOGETHER are able to barnstorm an idea that
that will allow the character to work in the game.
I like it when my characters come from 'all points of the globe'. I
LIKE diversity, as opposed to you ONE GM, ONE VISION type of gaming.
AND, I'll have you know, that maybe in YOUR game characters from
different backgrounds despise and hate each other, displaying an
EXTREMELY Xenophobic attitude, the same does NOT hold for mine, and that
4 times out of 5, the group finds for themselves, with a little help
from me, reasons to work together. I can take you taking pot shots at
me, BUT DON'T YOU DARE DO SLAMS AGAINST MY PLAYERS! That is the most
unmidigated, galling statement I ve EVER heard, and I've heard quite a
few!
You don't need to instantly obliterate the PCs [well, maybe YOU
do]. You don't need to go about prosecuting powergamers [but I guess
like the Nazis, you need a scapegoat for your propoganda to feed on].
NO ONE in my game is a POWERGAMER [yes, I DID have one, but unlike
you, who probably would have given him a blindfold and shot him at dawn,
we came to an agreement that he should find something elsewhere].
Just because you LIMITED, INFLEXIBLE mentality isn't able to
comprehend all the possible plot threads that can link diverse
characters together, and can only see a TopCat Uber Alles type world
where all the player characters are the same, DON'T have the nerve to
think we all have to or desire to be like that.
I may not run a PERFECT game like YOU do, but I try my best, and I
think my players enjoy it a little as well. And I'd rather burn my
books, than submit to a fasCist Gm like yourself!
WHEW! I feel better now. Despised letting that run itno a spout of
namecalling, but you want a pissing match, I guarentee I've got a biger
[Block delete 0.02 Mp Memory].
Kohl, who HATES to be antagonized before he's had his morning cup of
tea!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 08:12:54 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Oh Do Shut Up Already!!!
In-Reply-To: <199707181410.IAA23168@******> from "Spike" at Jul 18,
97 03:09:29 pm
Content-Type: text
Spike wrote:
|
| |<aol>
| |Me too.
| |</aol>
| |
| |(Copywrite by Spike Industries)
|
| Thanks for the CopyRIGHT message....
| :)
Aarg! $$#@!&%^$#! And my job is closely related to the publishing
industry.
:)
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:15:30 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OOC?
In a message dated 97-07-18 04:03:51 EDT, you write:
>At the moment, GW doesn't have any true problems... But they DO have a lot
of >pissed off players who are desperately looking for Miniatures Elsewhere
for the >games...
But the players still buy the figures. I see it all the time in the store I
used to run. "Bob" would come in and complain about the prices, but still buy
the figures.
Though, I have noticed that some players are getting alternative figures for
their armies, not as many in my area. (About 1 out of 25 players)
The clone figures produced by several other companies could pose a problem
for GWUS, so I do see your point.
>GW has been doing some really BAD things... Like raising the price of EVERY
>blister pack of mini's 50 cents, and raising all their boxed sets 10% across
the >board. plus some of their newer mini's have some rediculous prices,
like the Green >Knight. It's a REALLY cool looking and nicely done, but at
$20.00 for a single >mounted mini, it's hideously overpriced...:(
The price increase doesn't really bother me that much, since their figures
are always the best quality. Lead/pewter I do not mind paying for, but their
plastics are really over priced.
>They have also stopped making or supporting several of their "smaller"
games, >such as their Warhammer Quest and Blood Bowl games....
Blood bowl is coming back. I am not sure what's going on with Warhammer
quest, but I have heard that they have some new stuff for it coming out at
the begining of next year.
>Plus, they went to direct distributorship, and then required a certain
amount to be >ordered, thus makig it near impossible for smaller shops to
afford the mini's, thus >they stopped carrying them.
Games Work shop had to go to direct distributorship to survive. When magic
was at its peek in '94, Games Workshop would call their distributors and be
told "No, we don't need your product, magic is making our money for us." (I
got this from David Kingston who used to work at GWUS in the trade sales
relations office, as head of the department.) If they hadn't, GWUS would be
almost gone now.
I will admit that the $500 minimum order can be a bit steep for some shops,
but the average GWUS player will have to sppend $300+ to get their armies. If
the shops can not meet the minimum once a month, then truthfully they will do
better carring something else. My shop finally got to the point where most of
our customers were dealing on the internet, buying at cost, so we droped the
line.
Also, GWUS products are available to distributors, they just get the same
deal that retailers do, so they could carry them. I believe greenfield and
armory carry the line.
>And now, GW is requiring stores to buy the newer blister packs in lots of 6,
per >blister....
Yeah, I know. I understand that GW wants everyone to carry the full rack, but
I think they should create line fillers as opposed to having shops ordering
entire sleeves.
>However, Warhamemr products have reached an all time high in popularity in
the >US, which is part of the reason GW is getting greedy.
Let's face it, they admit that they are in it to make money. I would be too.
>Hopefully, GW will learn from TSR's mistakes. Otherwise, the giant of the
Mini >Industry could find itself needing rescued, in which case I can
definately see WOTC >bailing them out.
TSR made many other mistakes, like ticking off their distribtors at GenCon
one year or how about hiring friends to sit and shuffle papers. My favorite
was when TSR was building their new office, sold the old before the new one
was completed, only to rent it back for 3 months from the new owners.
-Bandit
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:21:32 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: WotC's Acquisitiveness
In a message dated 97-07-18 08:20:01 EDT, you write:
<< Well... I think that effectively kills the thread.... >>
You know, before TSR was bought, represntives said the same thing, and WOTC
doesn't want a buyout of FASA-just the rights to BattleTech and Shadowrun.
I personally am waiting to after Gen Con to see what happens.
-El Bandit, hoping this is all some wierd dream.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 15:29:25 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: WotC's Acquisitiveness
In-Reply-To: <970718102115_-625154380@*******.mail.aol.com> from "M. Sean
Martinez" at Jul 18, 97 10:21:32 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|In a message dated 97-07-18 08:20:01 EDT, you write:
|
|<< Well... I think that effectively kills the thread.... >>
|
|You know, before TSR was bought, represntives said the same thing, and WOTC
|doesn't want a buyout of FASA-just the rights to BattleTech and Shadowrun.
|
|I personally am waiting to after Gen Con to see what happens.
FASA would be fools to sell anything to TotC, given their prior loyalty to
the industry.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 15:32:01 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: WotC's Acquisitiveness
In-Reply-To: <3369.199707181429@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk> from "Spike"
at
Jul 18, 97 03:29:25 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|FASA would be fools to sell anything to TotC, given their prior loyalty to
|the industry..... ^
OK, so, I'm a crap typer... It should of course be a 'W'....
But you all knew that anyway....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 15:35:25 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Designs
J. Keith Henry writes
> Okay, with this paragraph a very distinct question has arisen to me.
I snipped it but Topcat does have some reasonable things to say,
unfortunately i don't have the time to wade through the volume when
someone sets him off (usually because he misinterpreted what they
meant) getting 750 emails at once after a long weekend does not help
my reply rate any !
> How
> many people out there have a game scenario/series that is "neverending"?
By
> that I mean that they don't just "get an idea" and design the idea then
have
> everyone make the characters. After the idea is over, the characters are put
> aside.
>
> I mean the games with no end-game in sight.
I generally always aim to have campains run on open ended. Mind the
campain world i'm presently using is more than 1 campain old now and
managing! i haven't had to clone planet Earth (or even just Seattle)
yet (though i might have too see how things go).
> I have a campaign line that has
> been in existence, in one form or another, for over 6 years now. It's seen
> nearly 34 players (yeah, I sat down and counted all of these) and I don't
> know how many different characters (that may be 50% again the above number).
> There are 4 players that are still here (talk about -CORE-) and they can
> handle nearly fragging anything, and even with a hint of style from time to
> time (wondering what definition of style they use however).
>
Yeah, i had one group run for 22 months before after quite a few
player changeabouts i pulled the plug as the knowledge of the players
drifting into the game could no longer cope with the very climbing
Karma totals. So i started the campain again from 0 karma which they
were in a better position to cope with, then started another campain
in the same campain world as well, the last is still running.
I forget how many players and characters have been involved but not
close to your 34! though total campain up time is approaching 3 years
and i am using stuff developed up to and including over a year before
that as background :)
Some of the bad guys are still about, the corporation behind the
first run the first lot did is still busy annoying PC's, they might
get around to visiting them yet, i think villans with beta move-by-
wire 4 annoyed some characters :), Jurazez after he showed up is
still surviving though he's been unconcious due to well placed fists
more than a few times, not a popular chap but when he shows up with a
dozen FBI limos and a company of national guard in tow sometimes (and
it was PC property PC's had just trashed) you can imaging they daren't
use bullets.
There are even good guys that have lasted that long, The NPC mage i
mention sometimes started as a reasonable sub 200 karma NPC at the
beginning, last time he was supposedly seen (with a pack of
Aztechnology hired Mercs moving in for a 10Millon yen bounty, PC's
should be careful what they hand folks without checking the
fusion-ability of the contents) he was on over 900 and very hard.
> Talking about "Detective Games" or "Combat Games" or
"Artifact Games" has
> just made me realize that the characters I've had around me, both my own and
> others, might be really close to damn unique.
Yeah i've had all sorts of runs. Including saving the govenor, then
the next party got hired to find out what the military grade shootout
at her place was all about :), ie what where the last lot of PC's
doing firing ATGM's at Shultz's and getting patted on the back by her
for it.
Pc's have been hired to swap 'the crate in the lorry with the one in
the Ares spaceplane' ['Johnson' neglecting to mention crate 1
contained a dead Horror the campain worlds first campain had blown up
and the second lot had given him after they got the remains off the
FBI, and crate 2 contained a Thor Satellite, Ares were not impressed
though they never ID'ed most of them and some of those PC's now have
fractions of Dunk's 1% in Ares]
> The character of my own (there
> have been 4 GM's to the line btw) I mentioned a while back with 3000+ game
> hours is a case in point.
Yikes!
> -Keith (who is really wondering if the definition of -Power- is well and
> truly understood)
>
Yeah.
I have seen characters that were legal (yes actually rules legal) by
the starting rules that were more 'munchkinous' that the guy with
delta move by wire 3! [which he paid for having earnt the money by
being clever]
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:51:09 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Totems
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970718182708.007b5760@****.org.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Fri, 18 Jul 1997, Chris Maxfield wrote:
> <grin> What?!?! Damn. I thought totems were just a convenient mental
> magical crutch for the shaman. No more real than any other hallucination.
> </grin>
>
> Seriously though. Have the members of this list concluded that the totems
> are real - objectively and substantively real? This seems a bit too AD&Dish
> for me.
>
Actually if one looks into the mythos of the Native Americans the totems
are real. Their not quite as "human" as the greek pantheon for example,
but they are quite real.
It makes for some interesting ideas for SR when you start translating
ancient Native American myths and legends into their 21st century
equivalents.
As to whther or not they are real, consider this; is a nature spirit
"real" well maybe not at first, but if it goes free, then it certainly
is. (within the laws of the UCAS, CAS, Aztlan etc etc etc)
In SR if enough people "believe" then something happens. Reference
Gator, being an urban totem. The BBB clearly states that this facet grew
out of urban legend (20th century urban legend).
Anyway my point is (I really do have one). I think that there are a lot
of cool rolepaying oppurtunities if you allow the totems to be real
independent entities. Note; nowhere does it say the totems have any real
power in the material world.
Imagine Raccoon wanting his shaman to organize a shadowrun just to tweak
Cat's nose.
Regards
-Bill
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:58:04 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Peter David Boddy <pdboddy@****.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970718014901.26dfecfc@*****.com>; from "Bull" at
Jul
18, 97 1:49 am
Bull writes:
> I hate you all!
> I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
Ah-wendigo,
Ah-wendigo,
Ah-wendigo, ah-wendigo, ah-wendigooaaooaaoo
In the sprawl, the mighty sprawl,
The ork sleeps tonight,
In the sprawl, the nasty sprawl,
The ork sleeps tonight...
Hehehehehehe...
I can remember my first encounter with a wendigo, actually there were
about half a dozen. I was a rigger, we had a decker, a mage, and three
sammies. We were heading cross country (heading for a small town, needed
to lay low), and I offered to drive everyone in my armoured van. The
decker and the mage accepted, but the three sammies wouldn't be caught
dead in my beat up old van, so one of them had bought (or stolen, can't
remember, and not that my character would ask) a brand new, bright red,
4x4 half-ton.
We stopped in a small town, round noon, and noticed that it was almost
empty, nothing in it except for a few starving dogs, and a couple of
really thin, really scared human, who ran off when we approached. So,
figuring no one would care, we picked an empty house as ours, and decided
to make this town our hidey hole. At dusk is when all the really wierd
things happened. Seems as though some of the population of the town had
caught HMHVV, and these unfortunates came for us in the night. We barely
(very barely) made it to our vehicles, and we tore off into the night,
heading for the open highway...to be met by six wendigos, which ambushed
us. Now my van was armoured, so I had enough time to deply my turreted
light machine gun (which didn't kill them, but peeled them off of my van).
Now, the little red pickup wasn't armoured, or armed (except for the
sammies), and when I saw the drivers door torn off, I had to stop and
help...man, the wendigos could have made an excellent F1 pit crew, cause
they stipped that truck to almost nothing, in no time...
Lets just say that our party stayed in the big city for a long, long time,
before heading out into the country again...
Pete
Pete aka Spitfire
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter David Boddy
Carleton University
Email address: pdboddy@****.carleton.ca
Email address: bx955@*******.carleton.ca
----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:59:31 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Design [Here it comes, TopCat!]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hehe...any one mind if I laugh my ass off for a while? See, I find this
whole arguement between Topcat and Victor hilarious. "I play my game this
way..." and "Well, I wouldn't do that, I play it like this..." Hilarious
to me. And you want to know why?
I play in both of their games.
I play in Victor's great "Mosaic" PBEM, and I play in Topcat's also
wonderful RL game with some friends.
Both games are great, and neither of them is very different from the other,
power and gming wise. I should know. In fact, except for subtle
differences, the character in Victor's game is the exact same as the one in
Topcats.
Perhaps you guys should stop arguing the same side?
Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/
The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton
Gencon count down: 19 days
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:00:17 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: A WildCat, A Navy SEAL, and A Tir Mage go into a bar...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Topcat,
I've grown REALLY tired of trying to reply to all this
misinterpreted, poorly argued diatribes about whoses way of GMing is
right. Your players must enjoy the way you do things, otherwise you
wouldn't have any, and my players must be deriving a little satisfaction
from my efforts. This thread has already taken FAR too much time from my
gamers, when I could have been posting turns, or getting ready for the
weekend session with my 'live' gamers. So, think what you want to think,
and say what you want to say about my style. I'm not going to change
your mind by beating you over the head with my manifesto, and vice versa
[a case of your karma ran over my dogma!]. Just don't go insulting my
players. Stick to what you know about, don't go making snap judgements
about people you've never had contact with in a gaming context.
I'm DEFINITELY Audi!
Kohl
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:10:34 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Design
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Thanks, Mike.
That was a cold bucket of water you threw on me, and I appreciate
it. If someone starts taking pokes at me before I've had my morning cup
of tea, and done a little meditating to get myself prepped for the day,
I tend to come out fighting! I actually hadn't realized how bad it was,
until a few years ago when I was on board ship, I found out, several
people were afraid to approach me in the morning, because they thought
I'd tear their heads of f[Well, there was that time I leapt out of my
rack from a sound sleep, grabbed this guy by the collar, and hoisted him
off his feet against a wall, cause he woke me up too early. When
everyone, including the guy I was strangling started laughing, I
realised I'd gone to sleep in my starkers, and was standing there buck
nakkid in the breeze! <lowers reufully shaking head>
I apologise, TopCat. And thanks again, Mike.
Kohl
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 08:45:12 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Skye Comstock <bilbo@****.NWLINK.COM>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970718014901.26dfecfc@*****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>I hate you all!
>
>I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
>
>Argh!!!!!!!!!!
>
>:]
Hey, I think it was my idea, too. :] Did you read the posts, Bull? Bad!
Bad Bad Bull! I'll send the armies of Free Spirit Woosps after you
stupid children!
-Skye, "Lets turn him into a purple Wendigo." :P
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:58:47 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
In-Reply-To: <v03007800aff54ddcd1f8@[206.129.19.7]> from "Skye Comstock"
at
Jul 18, 97 08:45:12 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|Hey, I think it was my idea, too. :] Did you read the posts, Bull? Bad!
|Bad Bad Bull! I'll send the armies of Free Spirit Woosps after you
|stupid children!
Oh, I don't think he read the posts...
I think he started suddenly growing grey hair all over his body....
:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:50:25 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: GEEK CODE?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Caun Haskins wrote:
>
> On all your messages I get this at the bootom of the message:
>
> > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> > Version 3.1:
> > GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
> > Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
> > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
>
> what is it, why do I get it, and does anybody else find it anoying or
> even get it?
Caun, the geek code block has been here before us and will exist after
us. It is an institution.
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:29:11 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Design
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:10 AM 7/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>TopCat ONCE again gets it wrong what I'm trying to say :-P
You said I was some sort of fascist GM when the truth was perhaps farthest
from that... and since you repeat it within here, I'm sure I got it right...
> The only reason you find what I have to hilarious is because you
>have NO idea what I'm trying to say!!! Setting the parameters means you
>telling the players what the powe level of the game is, what [if any]
>character types aren't really compatible with the whole storyline,
Which is all I've ever done... hello? You're reading these posts right? My
posts? Ya with me, Vic?
>UNLESS the Player and Gm TOGETHER are able to barnstorm an idea that
>that will allow the character to work in the game.
Any moron can slap some words together to explain why an Alamos 20K member
and a ORC member are really best buddies and run together all the time or
how a godlike powergamed shadowrunner would hang out with low-powered
detectives with SINs. As I said before, BS by any other name still stinks...
> I like it when my characters come from 'all points of the globe'. I
>LIKE diversity, as opposed to you ONE GM, ONE VISION type of gaming.
>AND, I'll have you know, that maybe in YOUR game characters from
>different backgrounds despise and hate each other, displaying an
>EXTREMELY Xenophobic attitude, the same does NOT hold for mine, and that
>4 times out of 5, the group finds for themselves, with a little help
>from me, reasons to work together. I can take you taking pot shots at
>me, BUT DON'T YOU DARE DO SLAMS AGAINST MY PLAYERS! That is the most
>unmidigated, galling statement I ve EVER heard, and I've heard quite a
>few!
Once again, diversity is not discouraged by me nor did I ever make the point
that it was. Why the hell are you so far off on this when nobody else is?
What is discouraged by me are situations where the characters realistically
would despise each other and/or not work with each other. One player is
contemplating changing his character because he doesn't know if he could see
his currrent one working with this group. As far as I'm concerned, that's
extremely well thought out. Sure, he could slap some BS story on there (as
could anyone with a slight degree of skill with their given language) as a
patch, but he'd rather go realistic. That impresses me. I could slap a
patch on there for him, but it'd still be a patch.
As for taking shots at your players, what the hell are you talking about?
> You don't need to instantly obliterate the PCs [well, maybe YOU
>do]. You don't need to go about prosecuting powergamers [but I guess
>like the Nazis, you need a scapegoat for your propoganda to feed on].
I don't prosecute powergamers or obliterate PCs... you sure you're thinking
about me or is this some deep part of your psyche venting itself? Were you
beaten as a kid? Did whoever did it make you call him TopCat? There's got
to be *some* reason...
> NO ONE in my game is a POWERGAMER [yes, I DID have one, but unlike
>you, who probably would have given him a blindfold and shot him at dawn,
>we came to an agreement that he should find something elsewhere].
LOL! Damn near everyone is a powergamer. Most of those know what
powergaming is and actively keep themselves from doing it under most
circumstances. Being a powergamer is like being an alchoholic: once you
become one, you're one forever. It's just keeping yourself from powergaming
that keeps you on the "wagon". Simply knowing a game system can (and will
often) make one a powergamer (one who is capable of powergaming)...
> Just because you LIMITED, INFLEXIBLE mentality isn't able to
>comprehend all the possible plot threads that can link diverse
>characters together, and can only see a TopCat Uber Alles type world
>where all the player characters are the same, DON'T have the nerve to
>think we all have to or desire to be like that.
This is absolutely hilarious, Vic. You are so far off on this and look SO
bad. I weave plot threads like few others I've ever met or heard of. I
play from a realistic (which is to say, not comic-bookish) standpoint, so
it's easier for me that way. Man, are you off on this...
By all means, place your happy little BS patches all over your characters
and campaigns, I'm not playing in it so I won't have to smell the
accompanying stink...
> I may not run a PERFECT game like YOU do, but I try my best, and I
>think my players enjoy it a little as well. And I'd rather burn my
>books, than submit to a fasCist Gm like yourself!
Hey! You got the "c" in there this time. You spelled it right, but you
thought this entire post (and your others on this) through wrong. Way to
go, Vic. I didn't think anyone could make that big of an ass of themselves,
but you exceeded my wildest imaginations. Bravo, Vic! Bravo!
> WHEW! I feel better now. Despised letting that run itno a spout of
>namecalling, but you want a pissing match, I guarentee I've got a biger
>[Block delete 0.02 Mp Memory].
.02 Mp ain't big enough, little fella...
Now, you can keep ranting on and on despite having been shot down
repeatedly. I like to reply to posts like that, it makes me smile. You
could also wake up, realize that you've been wrong all the way through this,
and stop posting on this before you dig a deeper hole. Or you could go
civilized and maybe apologize, but I don't expect that. What happens now is
all up to you...
What's it going to be, Vic?
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:29:25 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!!
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:31 AM 7/18/97 +0100, you wrote:
>> I've never said that powergamer means munchkin (why does everyone think
>> I said this?).
>Maybe because many people think they're the same thing? I don't have a
>problem with powergaming, if it fits in with the rest of the game, but
>overstepping the line and going munchkin is something I heavily
>discourage...
Good deal!! Gurth understands (and it's an opinion that I value, as
well)... anyone else?
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:29:17 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: A WildCat, a Navy SEAL, and a Tir mage go into a bar...
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:44 AM 7/18/97 -0400, Victor wrote:
>First off, TopCat, The SEALS work for the UCAS, NOT CAS!
Actually, if you read through SR2 (which one would hope you might've) you'd
know that SEALs could be of either UCAS or CAS. When the US split, military
forces went to their respective countries based on their own personal
loyalties. Now if you knew where they train at you'd know that they'd be in
the CAS if that had anything to do with it, but since SR2 states that the
military split along personal loyaties, I'll let you slide there. Besides,
in the SC they mention a CAS SEAL character. They could be either, but they
are not exclusively UCAS. Wrong again...
> Second, as
>anyone whose actually been in the military can tell you, the prime
>reason for these two disparate peoples for working together comes down
>to one word...PROFESSIONALISM!
Surprise! I've been in the military...
As for professionalism, how about all the ingrained anti-Indian sentiment in
every former UCAS/CAS military member? They just forget that at retirement
as they fall into a plot hole? How about all the anti-elf sentiment
worldwide? I'm sure the plot hole covers that over just fine as well.
Sure, professionalism is appreciated, but where it's coming from is just as,
if not more so, important. Think like a real person for a moment...
> A spec forces commando, if the objectives or opposition were the
>same, these two people would MUCH rather work together than with a bunch
>of disorganized, improperly (if at all) trained, UNPROFESSIONAL
>Shadowrunners [Yes, I know that there are many Sr groups that don't fit
>this mold, but the military mentality, even a really loose one like
>mine, tends to gravitate towards order of regimentation, as opposed to
>the chaotic decisionmaking evidenced by your typical 'amateur' Shadowrun
>team.].
Of course anyone would rather work with a "professional" group, but one
doesn't have to be ex-military to be professional. I know more
unprofessional military people than professional, btw. Anywhere that rank
and time in service mean more than actual knowledge and ability is an
unprofessional place. Perhaps you mean "skilled at small unit tactics" or
"wears black, has fired a gun before, and can sneak". Is that what you
mean? Some people define professional as wearing a suit and tie to work.
It's a very vague term and rarely applies to those that would use it
frivolously. If it's attitude you're talking about, then the military is
the last place to look for professionalism. They're just
> If the Tir mage is also a former spook, works just as well. Not all
>spec forces teams love and share a 'warm, fuzzy feeling' for each other,
>BUT most are professional enough to work together to get the job done.
LOL! You got a choice between working with a group of people that you've
known for a long time (fellow ex-SEALs, let's say) and working with a guy
who you don't know, is sure he knows the best way to do things (and it isn't
your way, it's some damned fluffy elf way), and you're going to choose the
latter because you're pretty sure he's "professional"? You think the elf is
going to take orders from you when he knows the right way? You think the
Wildcat is going to listen to either of you? And let's not forget that
since the moment all of them were born, they were taught that the others are
"bad". Realistically, there's too much bad blood there.
Take two fire teams with members of equal rank. One team comes from Israel,
the other from Iran. How well are these two groups going to get along?
Realism, it stares us in the face every day...
>And who knows, after working with their opposite numbers for awhile,
>they may just develop a grudging respect for one another. This would go
>a long way to laying down more lasting links between the trio, than to
>simply lump them all together as types that should get along and say,
>you're a team.
Which is exactly what you're doing, lumping them together under the banner
of "professionalism" (without really knowing what the term means) and then
applying the BS patch "have worked together, now possess grudging respect".
That smells, Vic. Bad.
> Military, and spec forces in particular, are trained in a certain
>discipline that most amateur shadowrunners have no wish to emulate.
>[Look at Argent from Nigel Findley's books. He ran a team of
>Shadowrunners that was almost totally composed of ex-military, and they
>functioned like a well oiled machine. I'd say more, but then I'd need
>spoilers :-].
If you truly were a member of the armed forces, Vic, you'd know that easily
90% or more of the people in there have no idea what professionalism is...
those that do are often squashed by the boot of rank and service time...
I do, indeed, know of Argent. I also know that many of the shadowrunners in
the books run very similar. Argent is just equipped better and has some
1000+ karma to play with and a full team of mercenaries of his caliber that
he runs with. Of course he's going to be successful, some countries don't
have that kind of firepower, he's a powergamer's wet dream.
> You seem to think that anyone who can come up with a interesting
>and CONVINCING storyline, OTHER than you, why these three should hang
>together is full of BS! Now, if THAT isn't full of hubris, and a good
>helping Mad Cow Kaka, I don't know what is!
There is no such thing as a realistic storyline that'll patch those three
together. You can BS patch 'em endlessly, but it'll always be BS and it'll
stink forever. I'm a talented writer and I could BS patch them together
just like anyone here probably could, but it'd be BS. Get it?
> As a GM, you're supposed to
>HELP the players find a reason to stick together. It's hard, and it
>doesn't always work out, but that doesn't mean you aren't supposed to
>try. And don't give me the reason that you don't have the time. I'm
>pretty sure I'm a GOOD deal older than you are, and if anyone doesn't
>have time to waste on foolishness, it's me.
As a GM, you're supposed to run a campaign. It's up to the characters how
they react to each other. I don't tell characters how they met or why they
stay together or what they'll be doing for their next run. I just shape
where they want to go and how they want to work. You're sounding awfully
"fascist" here, Vic... what with forcing the players together and all...
> Only a civilian would make an assumption like that these three
>would have no reason to stick together as BS! [And NO, I'm NOT bashing
>civilians; I'm one right now, and enjoy it quite fine, thank you!] I
>suggest you take a look at the Shadowrun Military Page, and talk to a
>few of those guys over there, so's you get a better idea what you're
>meandering about.
Heh. I was military, Vic. My father was also in the military. I've seen
the great military machine in motion. Professional it isn't. I'll gladly
debate this with anyone, complete with numerous facts, should they really
wish to get into such a conversation with me. One can assume that the
military is run the best way possible by the best people possible at all
times and that everyone gets along and that everyone works together and that
everyone is happy and that nobody ever violates another person's rights or
dislikes/distrusts/despises/attacks them because of race, religion, or sex,
but it doesn't work that way. You'd have to be extremely naive to believe that.
>Or, maybe I'm totally wrong, and they'll vindicate you. Who knows...
Depends on their viewpoint. If it's comic-bookish in nature and doesn't
take into account decades of nationalism and racism, then they'll probably
disagree with me. If they look at the wide-view, the view that hasn't been
polished over by propaganda and swept under the carpet, then they'll
probably agree with me.
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:29:26 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Attitude is Everything :)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:58 AM 7/18/97 -0600, David wrote:
>TopCat wrote:
>| I've never said that powergamer means munchkin (why does
>| everyone think I said this?).
>I think I know what the problem is :)
So do I, but I'll save that bit for later... heh
>First, you have very strong opinions (a good thing).
Yes!
>You aren't afraid to voice these opinions (a good thing).
Yes!
>You seem to have a tendancy to "bunch" different nouns to talk about
>something. In the Munchkin thread you used the words Munchkin,
>Powergamer, and Over-powered in very close proximity. Ergo, the
>belief that you equated Munchkin with Powergamer (which has since
>been cleared up quite well).
Hmmm... okay... good that it's cleared up though :)
>You also tend to "wander" a little bit when communicating. It's a
>good conversational style, but leads to misinterpretation when
>discussing philosophy. And since you love to debate philosophy... :)
I know I wander, but it's often to state a related fact and/or show the
wide-view of a given situation. Maybe that does confuse people... hmm
>It's not any one thing, but a combination of attitude and style.
I don't know if it's that so much as the fact that when people read my
posts, all they hear is someone (a'la Hitler inciting a crowd or the
Martians in "Mars Attacks") screaming and yelling even when it's just a
regular post as most of mine are. Kinda funny to think about, but there's
got to be some of that going on out there... :)
>It's also a matter of people getting used to you.
Heh, only if they know me :)
>Anyway, I'm not advocating that you should change, just letting you
>know what I see.
That's cool... thanks for a well-informed and thought-out reply...
>And for everyone that butts heads with TC, read his posts as if
>you're having a friendly chat with him over a beer (or a koolaid for
>you youngters ;).
Well said! (though even the youngsters deserve a nip now and then) ;)
[ack-ackack-ack ACKACK-ACK!-ACK!!-ACKACKACK!!!] Heh.
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:29:23 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:33 AM 7/18/97 -0500, Bruce wrote:
>Y'know, I think I've vehemently disagreed with you on occasion, Bob, but that
>makes sense and I agree completely. If the system starts at a simple balance,
>it's easy to modify to what you want (I modify games a lot, and some *are* a
>pain because they rely too much on the balance expected of the characters in
>the campaign). SR is currently comfy as-is, power-wise, and tinkering should
>be kept to things which don't alter that balance in favor of any sort of
>character, imo.
YES!! Good deal, someone else that understands...
>I hope this was a little more than a 'me too'.
It was, but this post of mine was not. Just wanted to let you know that I
appreciate anything along these lines. I'll even take "me too" posts...
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:34:42 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: [Admin] Re: Long Range Game Design
In-Reply-To: <199707181729.MAA12789@*******.fgi.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:29 7/18/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>I don't prosecute powergamers or obliterate PCs... you sure you're thinking
>about me or is this some deep part of your psyche venting itself? Were you
>beaten as a kid? Did whoever did it make you call him TopCat? There's got
>to be *some* reason...
This is absolutely inappropriate Bob, both in its context and its
execution. In the future, can you please keep away from pot shots like that?
-Adam
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:48:12 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Design [Here it comes, TopCat!]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:59 AM 7/18/97 -0500, Mike wrote:
>Hehe...any one mind if I laugh my ass off for a while? See, I find this
>whole arguement between Topcat and Victor hilarious. "I play my game this
>way..." and "Well, I wouldn't do that, I play it like this..."
Hilarious
>to me. And you want to know why?
>I play in both of their games.
>I play in Victor's great "Mosaic" PBEM, and I play in Topcat's also
>wonderful RL game with some friends.
>Both games are great, and neither of them is very different from the other,
>power and gming wise. I should know. In fact, except for subtle
>differences, the character in Victor's game is the exact same as the one in
>Topcats.
>Perhaps you guys should stop arguing the same side?
First off, Victor is clueless. As in "without *any* clue", as to my gaming
style or even what was plainly posted by me. He continues to rant on about
things I've never done or said and I'm more than happy to put the verbal
smack-down on him when he does. I'll continue to do so in the future...
Also, the whole "patch" thing sucks. I don't subscribe to it and he does,
in fact he lives for it (or so it seems). Any schmoe with a pencil and
paper can create a patch to explain why lifelong enemies suddenly kiss and
make up, but it's BS and straight from the fairy tale realm. Maybe he'll
wake up and realize that it is just a patch and not a solution nor is it in
any way realistic, maybe he won't. I'm merely trying to enlighten the poor
soul.
Finally, I have to reiterate that he has absolutely no idea what he's
posting about. My posts were there, clearly detailed, and he took them in a
way that no other human with the capacity to understand the English language
would have. So long as he continues to do so, I'll tear him into tiny
pieces for it. My guess is that he's too blind and pig-headed to admit he's
wrong and that even if he wasn't, he's put way too much stake in his
imagined view to back down now.
I know Victor's views on this aspect of gaming quite well, I've actually
read his posts so I can say this. They aren't THAT much different than mine
in that, Mike is correct. Where I've taken up my cause is in the "patch"
portion of this and explaining to Victor that he is SO far off on my gaming
views. I mean, I used plain English, most people here can at least get an
idea of what was said from that. Why hasn't he caught on?
So by all means, let this continue... I've got my views and they're what
I've been saying they are. Whatever Victor is trying to say my views are is
both wrong and perceived as such by all but him. I'll happily shoot the guy
down post after post until he realizes this.
You realize it yet, Vic? You with the rest of the class now?
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:38:33 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Bull wrote:
>
> I hate you all!
>
> I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
>
> Argh!!!!!!!!!!
>
> :]
>
You didn't peak did you?!?!?!
'Course if you had you'd know what was really going on so, never mind.
.] o
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:51:31 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:29 PM 7/18/97 -0500, I wrote:
>At 12:33 AM 7/18/97 -0500, Bruce wrote:
>>Y'know, I think I've vehemently disagreed with you on occasion, Bob, but that
>>makes sense and I agree completely. If the system starts at a simple balance,
>>it's easy to modify to what you want (I modify games a lot, and some *are* a
>>pain because they rely too much on the balance expected of the characters in
>>the campaign). SR is currently comfy as-is, power-wise, and tinkering should
>>be kept to things which don't alter that balance in favor of any sort of
>>character, imo.
>
>YES!! Good deal, someone else that understands...
>
>>I hope this was a little more than a 'me too'.
>
>It was, but this post of mine was not.
Damn, got that backwards...
that last line there should read "It *wasn't*, but this post of mine *was*"
Sorry about that...
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:57:55 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [Admin] Long Range Game Design
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:34 AM 7/18/97 -0600, you wrote:
>>I don't prosecute powergamers or obliterate PCs... you sure you're thinking
>>about me or is this some deep part of your psyche venting itself? Were you
>>beaten as a kid? Did whoever did it make you call him TopCat? There's got
>>to be *some* reason...
>This is absolutely inappropriate Bob, both in its context and its
>execution. In the future, can you please keep away from pot shots like that?
Hey, the guy called me, among other things, a Nazi and I seem to remember
the fury that was brought down when *I* said that in a non-political sense.
Direct some of that his way and I can respect this post fully.
By the way, you ever follow through with the threat to unsubscribe anyone
who continued the "Runner's Attitudes" thread in a threatening manner? If
you did, you would've unsubscribed David Thompson for his post. I've got a
copy of it and would, at the least, like to know that he got reprimanded for
posting it. If nothing has been done, I'd like to know why?
Also, please direct such posts privately in the future as proper netiquette
demands. Makes things so much happier for all of us and keeps me from
getting irate and the poster from looking hypocritical...
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:02:24 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> > I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
> You didn't peak did you?!?!?!
>
> 'Course if you had you'd know what was really going on so, never mind.
No, AFAIK Bull was a good troggy and has NO idea what truly evil things lie
in wait for him!
EGMLOL!!!!
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:02:48 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: TopCat's Ascension to the Godhood. [WAY OT]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Your wrong, TC. Your oh so wrong.
One side of your brain just isn't on the same wavelength as the one
that post your messages. You proclaim one thing, then are vehmenently
denying it the next. It's all starting to sound rather boring and trite.
More rantings. You should read your own posts, before you object to
something.
Smack me down? Mister, you haven't even come close. I'm so glad you
speak for all assembeled, as you so intimately know what they thinking
of your speeches. How very godlike of you.
Talented writer, rather modest, aren't we? Guess we'll all not so
gifted, eh?
Using plain english is one thing. So does a parrot.
If you think you've 'won', fine. Knock your self out. Maybe you'll
even believe it.
Maybe you should reread what I was trying to say, rather than
injecting your own viewpoint over it.
Thanks to Mike, I can pretty much blow off your posts for what they
are,.....
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:06:00 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: TopCat's Ascension [Okay,
I've slapped myself for being bad on that last one...]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I'll quit this thread and associated others, so you Admin guys don't
have to step in.
Kohl
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:11:26 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: TopCat's Ascension to the Godhood. [WAY OT]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Please take all this flame crap private.
No one wants to see you two overly hormonal jerkwads spewing invective over
the list.
Unless this thread is actively contributing to something seriously SR
related, please kill it.
Feel free to continue to act juvenile and immature on private email.
I'd hate to stop your fun, it's just that it's getting really old having to
see your dirty laundry on this list.
You both have some good points, but IMO you're letting your ego's continue
a dead thread.
You obviously don't agree, and NO amount of arguing is likely to change
that fact.
Personally I don't ccare who's right and who's wrong.
There is no "One True Way" to play SR.
Get over yourselves please.
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:17:13 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: TopCat's Ascension to the Godhood. [WAY OT]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 02:02 PM 7/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Your wrong, TC. Your oh so wrong.
I'm wrong in that I know my gaming views? Whatever...
>One side of your brain just isn't on the same wavelength as the one
>that post your messages. You proclaim one thing, then are vehmenently
>denying it the next. It's all starting to sound rather boring and trite.
>More rantings. You should read your own posts, before you object to
>something.
I've never proclaimed one thing and denied it (and certainly not in this
thread). In fact, if you want copies of my messages, I'll be more than
happy to forward them to you for re-reading. Would you like them?
>Smack me down? Mister, you haven't even come close. I'm so glad you
>speak for all assembeled, as you so intimately know what they thinking
>of your speeches. How very godlike of you.
Godlike? No, I haven't asked for money yet and I don't expect to do so
anytime soon. As far as knowing my own mind and reading what I write, I can
do that. Does this make me godlike?
As for smacking you down, you still haven't understood a word and continue
to make a bigger ass of yourself with each post. Perhaps I'm not the one
putting the smack-down on you, you are. Way to go, Vic. You impress me
more and more with every post.
>Talented writer, rather modest, aren't we? Guess we'll all not so
>gifted, eh?
I'm good and I know I'm good. Not everyone is so gifted, no. I can't draw
for shit though and many people can. If I wasn't good, I wouldn't say that
I was. Humbleness is for the untalented. I have rather humble drawing
skills. You understanding any of this, Vic?
>Using plain english is one thing. So does a parrot.
And yet you don't understand it... maybe you should buy a parrot, Vic.
>If you think you've 'won', fine. Knock your self out. Maybe you'll
>even believe it.
Of course I believe it, I won before your first rant appeared. You were
wrong about my views from the start and you've only snowballed since then.
Bravo!
>Maybe you should reread what I was trying to say, rather than
>injecting your own viewpoint over it.
I quoted everything you said in each reply. I read it carefully, in between
bursts of laughter and an occasional evil grin, and replied to it. My own
viewpoint is what you're so very far off on and you still haven't realized
that yet. WTG, Vic... you're another stat working to prove that the US
school system really doesn't work...
>Thanks to Mike, I can pretty much blow off your posts for what they
>are,.....
The truth? You've been blowing that off since the start... what's different
about that?
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:04:58 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Saving the Team by Self-Sacrifice
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:55 PM 7/17/97 -0400, Keith wrote:
>In a message dated 97-07-17 16:35:17 EDT, topcat@***.NET (TopCat) writes:
>>Power is always a decision. You don't accidentally take a PAC, you take
>>it because it is powerful. Deciding to play a powerful character does,
>>indeed, come with responsibilities (and I take each of those very seriously,
>>though many of the players of such characters do not), but there is also the
>>responsibility to play the game as a group and within the bounds of a
>>given campaign. If you let a superpowered character into a group of
>>low-powered types, it'll ruin the game for all involved. I choose never to
>>let that situation occur. Saves me a lot of trouble.
>No real argument except for the rare one now and again that understand that
>for all, and just wants to play. He's not out to, and even takes steps to
>ensure, that s/he won't destroy the game.
For that rare one, then, I'll agree. I wouldn't let him in on the chance,
but he still might end up working out in someone else's game. It could
happen, though, and I'll agree to that. :)
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:18:35 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: [Admin] Re: Long Range Game Design
In-Reply-To: <199707181741.LAA01901@******> from "Adam J" at Jul 18,
97 11:34:42 am
Content-Type: text
Adam J wrote:
|
| At 12:29 7/18/97 -0500, you wrote:
| >
| >I don't prosecute powergamers or obliterate PCs... you sure you're thinking
| >about me or is this some deep part of your psyche venting itself? Were you
| >beaten as a kid? Did whoever did it make you call him TopCat? There's got
| >to be *some* reason...
|
| This is absolutely inappropriate Bob, both in its context and its
| execution. In the future, can you please keep away from pot shots like that?
Aw geez, I can't believe I'm going to do this.
Fro, I think an Admin posting is required, but not because Bob got a
little dramatic. If a member partially flames another member, IMO
it's not the Admin's responsibility to step in and send one or the
other to their corner. Only if it's an outright Flame is it the
responsibility of the Admin to dowse the fire. If Bob had refered to
Victor with name calling or direct insults then he would have Flamed
him, in which case you would be well within your rights to unsub him
and give him a firm warning. IMHO, Bob's post was not a flame. You
and I don't know what kind of emotion Bob put into his post, whether
he was sneering with contempt, or talking in a casual tone of voice.
As to the reason that an Admin posting is needed, is because Bob and
Victor's discussion has gone *way* off topic.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:17:40 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Loseke <mike@******.VERINET.COM>
Subject: Re: A WildCat, a Navy SEAL, and a Tir mage go into a bar...
In-Reply-To: <199707181729.MAA12801@*******.fgi.net> from "TopCat" at Jul
18,
97 12:29:17 pm
Content-Type: text
Quoth TopCat:
>
> At 09:44 AM 7/18/97 -0400, Victor wrote:
>
> > If the Tir mage is also a former spook, works just as well. Not all
> >spec forces teams love and share a 'warm, fuzzy feeling' for each other,
> >BUT most are professional enough to work together to get the job done.
>
> LOL! You got a choice between working with a group of people that you've
> known for a long time (fellow ex-SEALs, let's say) and working with a guy
> who you don't know, is sure he knows the best way to do things (and it isn't
> your way, it's some damned fluffy elf way), and you're going to choose the
> latter because you're pretty sure he's "professional"? You think the elf
is
> going to take orders from you when he knows the right way? You think the
> Wildcat is going to listen to either of you? And let's not forget that
> since the moment all of them were born, they were taught that the others are
> "bad". Realistically, there's too much bad blood there.
>
> Take two fire teams with members of equal rank. One team comes from Israel,
> the other from Iran. How well are these two groups going to get along?
> Realism, it stares us in the face every day...
The phrase you're looking for here is "inter-service rivalry". It happens
everywhere, not just in the military. Not only do people in the Army
make fun of the Army Air Corps (US Air Force - see US History), but it
happens in police forces as well. The local police dept doesn't want
the FBI nosing in on it's case, for example.
> >And who knows, after working with their opposite numbers for awhile,
> >they may just develop a grudging respect for one another. This would go
> >a long way to laying down more lasting links between the trio, than to
> >simply lump them all together as types that should get along and say,
> >you're a team.
>
> Which is exactly what you're doing, lumping them together under the banner
> of "professionalism" (without really knowing what the term means) and then
> applying the BS patch "have worked together, now possess grudging respect".
> That smells, Vic. Bad.
I agree. Just because two people are profesional does not mean that they
will ignore any differences or personal feelings when they need to get
something done together. My itty-bitty Websters defines "professional"
as "referring to a profession; expert" and "professionalism" as
"expertise/skill". We always tend to attach more traits to these words
than the definitions have. Professionalism has always been a sore point
with me and some of my friends when it comes to playing SR in certain
scenarios.
> > Military, and spec forces in particular, are trained in a certain
> >discipline that most amateur shadowrunners have no wish to emulate.
> >[Look at Argent from Nigel Findley's books. He ran a team of
> >Shadowrunners that was almost totally composed of ex-military, and they
> >functioned like a well oiled machine. I'd say more, but then I'd need
> >spoilers :-].
>
> If you truly were a member of the armed forces, Vic, you'd know that easily
> 90% or more of the people in there have no idea what professionalism is...
> those that do are often squashed by the boot of rank and service time...
:) True. Very few of the higher ranking officers and NCO's are actually
worthy of the praise some people seem to think they deserve. Heck, I thought
that the Army was doing pretty good, with regards all of these sex scandals
popping up, until the SMA got pointed at a couple weeks ago. Very few
people in the military are actually worthy of the title "professional". Ever
heard of the phrase "F*ck up, move up"?
> > Only a civilian would make an assumption like that these three
> >would have no reason to stick together as BS! [And NO, I'm NOT bashing
> >civilians; I'm one right now, and enjoy it quite fine, thank you!] I
> >suggest you take a look at the Shadowrun Military Page, and talk to a
> >few of those guys over there, so's you get a better idea what you're
> >meandering about.
Even expert military folks will respect a civilian who shows expertise
in their field. Just because they aren't in the same service doesn't mean
that they won't work with each other. But, there is a certain level of
responsibility, and the way that a person acts, that people in any service
expect from professionals in that service. If any of the expected actions
are not taen that that person drops a few notches in the observers view.
> Heh. I was military, Vic. My father was also in the military. I've seen
> the great military machine in motion. Professional it isn't. I'll gladly
> debate this with anyone, complete with numerous facts, should they really
> wish to get into such a conversation with me. One can assume that the
> military is run the best way possible by the best people possible at all
> times and that everyone gets along and that everyone works together and that
> everyone is happy and that nobody ever violates another person's rights or
> dislikes/distrusts/despises/attacks them because of race, religion, or sex,
> but it doesn't work that way. You'd have to be extremely naive to believe that.
One example to prove topcat's point: my tank platoon in Germany received a
shiny new 2LT, straight out of the Air Force Academy! How did this happen?
We never found out. You thought Army trained officers couldn't read maps?
The first thing this guy did was lead us across a couple of farmers fields
near the Hof border causing about DM250,000 worth of damage because
he couldn't read the road signs. Then, on the same border mission, he
proceeded to direct his tank into taking 9 feet of siding off of the
side of a house that was pretty close to the road. This does not fit
the definition of professional. There was no way we wanted anything to
do with this guy.
--
|
Mike Loseke | You never know how fluffy poodles are,
mike@*******.com | until you step in one.
|
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:52:55 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Attitude is Everything :)
In-Reply-To: <199707181733.LAA01489@******> from "TopCat" at Jul 18,
97 12:29:26 pm
Content-Type: text
TopCat wrote:
|
| At 07:58 AM 7/18/97 -0600, David wrote:
|
| >It's not any one thing, but a combination of attitude and style.
|
| I don't know if it's that so much as the fact that when people read my
| posts, all they hear is someone (a'la Hitler inciting a crowd or the
| Martians in "Mars Attacks") screaming and yelling even when it's just a
| regular post as most of mine are. Kinda funny to think about, but there's
| got to be some of that going on out there... :)
Okay, let me try to clarify :) For example, when I read Gurth's
posts I imagine him as a friendly person who's more than willing to
help a total stranger. That may not be true, but based on his
writing style that's what I see in my mind's eye. When I read Mr.
Broadwater's posts I see a stern, intelligent man with a glint of
stuborness in his eyes. Again, it may not be true but that's what
his writing style is like.
In my mind you present yourself as a funloving, yet strict, guy with
just a bit of a mean streak. It's not an evil kind of mean streak,
but one of those that will tease you now and then and enjoy it.
Hmmm.. that's not quite right either. You know the Cheshire cat in
Alice in Wonderland? Put a tophat on it and it's you :) You always
know what your talking about, but those that are listening may or may
not have a clue, and sometimes it feels like you're being
intentionally deceptive, when in fact it's just your nature. Also,
one wonders why you said what you just did. BTW, I'm not trying to
slam you, just letting you know how *I* see you. I have no idea how
others see you. And I acknowledge that my view is probably not even
close to who you really are.
The point of this is that people do lend an emotion to their posts
because of their writing style. Their writing style may not
accurately reflect them, but that's what people see. Also, each
reader imagines the poster differently. I see you as a likeable guy,
others don't. Most people seem to like me, but I'm sure there's at
least one person who thinks I'm a twit :)
Did that make any sense?
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:12:08 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: Attitude is Everything :)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:52 PM 7/18/97 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:
>TopCat wrote:
>|
>When I read Mr.
>Broadwater's posts I see a stern, intelligent man with a glint of
>stuborness in his eyes. Again, it may not be true but that's what
>his writing style is like.
Hey, I can live with that. And what's with this Mr. stuff? I'm only 21. :)
Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/
The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton
Gencon count down: 19 days
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:15:15 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Attitude is Everything :)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 02:12 PM 7/18/97 -0500, you wrote:
>At 12:52 PM 7/18/97 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:
>>When I read Mr.
>>Broadwater's posts I see a stern, intelligent man with a glint of
>>stuborness in his eyes. Again, it may not be true but that's what
>>his writing style is like.
>Hey, I can live with that. And what's with this Mr. stuff? I'm only 21. :)
Except for the fact that that glint is more like the light of an oncoming
train... heheh. "That... is not... apple juice..." LOL!
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:23:30 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Attitude is Everything :)
In-Reply-To: <199707181913.NAA06421@******> from "Michael Broadwater" at
Jul
18, 97 02:12:08 pm
Content-Type: text
Michael Broadwater wrote:
|
| At 12:52 PM 7/18/97 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:
| >TopCat wrote:
| >|
| >When I read Mr.
| >Broadwater's posts I see a stern, intelligent man with a glint of
| >stuborness in his eyes. Again, it may not be true but that's what
| >his writing style is like.
|
| Hey, I can live with that. And what's with this Mr. stuff? I'm only 21. :)
I still remember the last time someone called you Mr. :)
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:09:13 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: [OT] Re: Attitude is Everything :)
In-Reply-To: <199707181915.NAA06507@******> from "TopCat" at Jul 18,
97 02:15:15 pm
Content-Type: text
TopCat wrote:
|
| At 02:12 PM 7/18/97 -0500, you wrote:
| >At 12:52 PM 7/18/97 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:
| >>When I read Mr.
| >>Broadwater's posts I see a stern, intelligent man with a glint of
| >>stuborness in his eyes. Again, it may not be true but that's what
| >>his writing style is like.
|
| Except for the fact that that glint is more like the light of an oncoming
| train... heheh. "That... is not... apple juice..." LOL!
I'm almost afraid to ask.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:07:46 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: [Admin] Long Range Game Design
In-Reply-To: <199707181757.MAA15312@*******.fgi.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:57 7/18/97 -0500, you wrote:
>By the way, you ever follow through with the threat to unsubscribe anyone
>who continued the "Runner's Attitudes" thread in a threatening manner? If
>you did, you would've unsubscribed David Thompson for his post. I've got a
>copy of it and would, at the least, like to know that he got reprimanded for
>posting it. If nothing has been done, I'd like to know why?
* Adam whips his fingers off the keyboard and beings pointing around the
mailing list rapidly.
Nothing was done because the tone of the emails had shifted more towards
friendly. Also, I shouldn't have tacked [Admin] onto the runners post,
since it would have filtered to the top of someones mailbox, instead of in
with the thread. (If they sort by subject, which most people seem to do.)
Bad handling on my part in that case.
>Also, please direct such posts privately in the future as proper netiquette
>demands. Makes things so much happier for all of us and keeps me from
>getting irate and the poster from looking hypocritical...
Please, in the future, direct mail that has nothing to do with Shadowrun in
general, to the person who posted the comments you are replying too.
Most of your recent posts have nothing to interest the list in general, and
could easily go private.
Can we please end all this petty shit?
The list has a purpose, and this is not it.
-Adam
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:36:28 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: david lowe <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 2:32 AM 7/18/97, Steven A. Tinner wrote:
<snippagae of stuff about Dark Conspiracy>
>On the whole I thought that DC had a LOT of potential, but was hindered by
>a shabby rules system, and a lack of support.
>
Actually, I have several DC supplements, even though I never bought the
game itself. They've given me some great SR ideas...
D.
David R. Lowe (dlowe@****.com)
Photography/Graphic Design
"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby."
-Daffy Duck
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:28:01 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy
In-Reply-To: <199707182025.OAA09585@******> from "david lowe" at Jul 18,
97 01:36:28 pm
Content-Type: text
david lowe wrote:
|
| Actually, I have several DC supplements, even though I never bought the
| game itself. They've given me some great SR ideas...
Care to share? <EGMG>
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 16:34:30 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: TopCat's Ascension to the Godhood. [WAY OT]
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:02:48 -0400"
<c=US%a=_%pÞSHAW%l=MSBOSTON1-970718180248Z-10469@*********.boston.deshaw.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
You wrote:
> Thanks to Mike, I can pretty much blow off your posts for what they
> are,.....
I think you (all who are involved in these sort of posts) can stop wasting
everyone's time now. Private EMail is much more appropriate for this sort of
thing, is it not? Bitching back and forth at each other in public just seems
like a 'my dick's bigger than yours' contest. No more parting shots, no more
'this is my final reply to this', just stop.
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 16:43:20 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: WotC's Acquisitiveness
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
M. Sean Martinez once dared to write,
>You know, before TSR was bought, represntives said the same thing, and WOTC
>doesn't want a buyout of FASA-just the rights to BattleTech and Shadowrun.
>
>I personally am waiting to after Gen Con to see what happens.
>
>-El Bandit, hoping this is all some wierd dream.
WAKE UP!!!
TSR also stopped releasing new products and had a major layoff of
employees. I haven't seen this repeated anywhere else in the industry for
there to be a potential target for a buy-out. Stop crying the sky is
falling and get back to talking about Shadowrun or be quiet. Rumors are
rumors and I don't care to have my time wasted by them. Take this
conspiracy theory claptrap elsewhere.
- MC23, who is Damn tired of this thread -
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:16:36 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 02:22 AM 7/17/97 -0600, Caun Haskins wrote these timeless words:
>I read the Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings (not the next two though,
>school kicked in and never got back to them) but I figured that most
>races were already conceived when Tolken wrote his masterpieces, weren't
>they the based on mythology? I personally never doubted in them (I was
>grown up on Fantasy) He does have a great influence over all Fantasy
>though, you're right, Thanks J. R.R. Tolken, (RIP) what about AD&D in SR
>I can't spot anything except they started RPG as Tolken apparently
>started the Fantasy genre. That all the connection?
>
Tolkien based SOME of his stuff on various Mythologies, but some ideas were
his and his alone.
The Elves, for example. before Tolkien, elevs were tiny pixie like beings
with lots of magic. I can't recall a single fable or myth that had human
sized Elevs. Tolkien was the first to make Elves what they're become today
in fantasy fiction adn RPG's. Tall people, usually as part of a normal
"race" of beings with their own govedrnment and such.
Troll's are another example. While SR trolls aren't really much like
Tolkiens Trolls, They're much closer to tolkaien's than AD&D's. AD&D Trolls
were usually mostly mindless, tall skinny regenerating things. Tolkiens
were Huge 10 foot tall beasties with minimal intelligence. However, they
DID turn to stone in daylight, so...
Dwarves are dwarves. They haven't really changed much, though in some of
the old fables, they were more like eveil little burrowing gnomes than thw
Race of Dwarves were so familiar with in Fantasy today.
Orks... Well... SR is probably the only game I know of where Orks are a
normal, viable race. AD&D came close with it's half orcs, but... That's
still not the same... And Orcs in Tolkien were pretty much the same as in
AD&D: Evil green beasties... They were also called Goblins in Tolkiens
books...
Most of the fantasy aspect of SR comes from tolkien, while the futuristic
stuff comes partly from Cyberpunk and the whole Cyberpunk Genre. It's an
interesting blend, and makes SR very unique...:]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:16:44 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OOC?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:15 AM 7/18/97 -0400, M. Sean Martinez wrote these timeless words:
>In a message dated 97-07-18 04:03:51 EDT, you write:
>
>>At the moment, GW doesn't have any true problems... But they DO have a lot
>of >pissed off players who are desperately looking for Miniatures Elsewhere
>for the >games...
>
>But the players still buy the figures. I see it all the time in the store I
>used to run. "Bob" would come in and complain about the prices, but still
buy
>the figures.
>
Agreed... I still buy *some* figures, despite the attrocious cost.
However, I've passed on quite a few neat mini's that I would have otherwise
bought for various reasons. The Green Knight, for example. I could think
of a dozen fun conversions to do to the thing to make it a cool Empire
General or a great mutated Chaos Knight, or even a Champion (I play Empire,
Chaos, and Chaos Dwarves, so...;)). But at $20.00, it wasn't worth it...
>Though, I have noticed that some players are getting alternative figures for
>their armies, not as many in my area. (About 1 out of 25 players)
>
>The clone figures produced by several other companies could pose a problem
>for GWUS, so I do see your point.
>
The problem now is hat there aren't enough of the clone figures available
yet, and the ones that are out there are hard to find. And of course if
you want to play in any official GW tourney... YOu have to have official
GW mini's...
>>GW has been doing some really BAD things... Like raising the price of EVERY
>>blister pack of mini's 50 cents, and raising all their boxed sets 10% across
>the >board. plus some of their newer mini's have some rediculous prices,
>like the Green >Knight. It's a REALLY cool looking and nicely done, but at
>$20.00 for a single >mounted mini, it's hideously overpriced...:(
>
>The price increase doesn't really bother me that much, since their figures
>are always the best quality. Lead/pewter I do not mind paying for, but their
>plastics are really over priced.
>
I think they are ALL getting overpriced. it wasn't so bad a year ago, but
they've started making their boxed sets smaller and more expensive, and
raising the price on their new blisters. hell, the game shop near me, when
I started putting my Empire army together earlier this year, had a couple
of the old Emp Morters. They were 5 bucks. They just got in a bunch of
the new Morter that GW did. I don;t think it's any nicer than the old one,
but it still cost $9.50! That's almost double the price!!
But you're right, the plastics cost almost as much as the metal mini's
anymore, and that's just ridiculous...
>>They have also stopped making or supporting several of their "smaller"
>games, >such as their Warhammer Quest and Blood Bowl games....
>
>Blood bowl is coming back. I am not sure what's going on with Warhammer
>quest, but I have heard that they have some new stuff for it coming out at
>the begining of next year.
>
Yeah, But I think BB os ONLY making a come back because there are a LOT of
fans out there with net access, and they've been pestering Jervis Johnson
about it ever since it got discontinued. hell, the Blood Bowl mailing list
got almost as much traffic as this one while I was on it...
As for WHQ, there is some support for it, but it's minimal. And GW has
been promising more support for the game for a long time now, and all we've
seen in a year was the Brettonian Knight...
>>Plus, they went to direct distributorship, and then required a certain
>amount to be >ordered, thus makig it near impossible for smaller shops to
>afford the mini's, thus >they stopped carrying them.
>
>I will admit that the $500 minimum order can be a bit steep for some shops,
>but the average GWUS player will have to sppend $300+ to get their armies. If
>the shops can not meet the minimum once a month, then truthfully they will do
>better carring something else. My shop finally got to the point where most of
>our customers were dealing on the internet, buying at cost, so we droped the
>line.
>
I don;t agree here... Yeah, 300+ bucks for an army sounds right, but a lot
of people don't go out an blow taht much at one time. they can't afford
to. most people buy the boxed set, some support mini's for the army of
their choice, and use the basic figs from the boxed set as whatever is
needed until they can pick up more figs for their army. hell, I still use
a lot of Empire and Chaos knights from the old Battlemasters game.
Plus, most stores around here don;t carry WH mini's as major line, or
mini's in general. tehre's only one out of 4 that has enough of a customer
base to really stock the figures. But the other stores DID make some money
from selling the Mini's before, and since they were closer for me, it was
nice to be able to pick up a few new figs from the store around the corner.
By requiring a minimum purchase of mini's, a lot of the stores lost a small
corner of their market by not being able to stock the figs. EVen a couple
hundred bucks a month can make a big difference in a small game shop's
profits... And we really only have small game shops out here.
>>However, Warhamemr products have reached an all time high in popularity in
>the >US, which is part of the reason GW is getting greedy.
>
>Let's face it, they admit that they are in it to make money. I would be too.
>
Agreed... But when you start sacrificing your players in the name of
profit.., that's the road to destruction...:] TSR did the same thing.
Look at how many people here vehemently hate TSR and everything related to
them!
>>Hopefully, GW will learn from TSR's mistakes. Otherwise, the giant of the
>Mini >Industry could find itself needing rescued, in which case I can
>definately see WOTC >bailing them out.
>
>TSR made many other mistakes, like ticking off their distribtors at GenCon
>one year or how about hiring friends to sit and shuffle papers. My favorite
>was when TSR was building their new office, sold the old before the new one
>was completed, only to rent it back for 3 months from the new owners.
>
Agreed... But GW is quicklymaking similar mistakes, and it's costing them
some of their old player base. It's going to cost them, and cost them big,
soon...
>-Bandit
>
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:16:59 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Totems
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:27 PM 7/18/97 +1000, Chris Maxfield wrote these timeless words:
>At 00:00 18/07/97 +1000, Glenn Munro wrote:
>>I have to disagree here. Hermetic mages study to learn their magic often
>>using mathematical formulas and the like. Those that even bother to try you
>>would expect to have average and above willpowers. Then with the shamanic
>>tradition why would a totem choose low willpowered individuals? The totem
> ^^^^^^^
>>wants to advance its own cause and would choose the best people for that
>>job and people with low willpower generally would not suit.
>
><grin> What?!?! Damn. I thought totems were just a convenient mental
>magical crutch for the shaman. No more real than any other hallucination.
></grin>
>
>Seriously though. Have the members of this list concluded that the totems
>are real - objectively and substantively real? This seems a bit too AD&Dish
>for me.
>
This REALLY gets into a wierd area, where you will get lots of varied
opinion, but yes, i think the list consensus is that Totems are real, i one
way or another. Now, go ask what a Totem is, and you'll get a dozen
different answers, but most will agree that Totems are real, in one way or
another.
In my personal game, they are very real, and very undefined...;]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:17:09 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: WotC's Acquisitiveness
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:32 PM 7/18/97 +0100, Spike wrote these timeless words:
>|FASA would be fools to sell anything to TotC, given their prior loyalty to
>|the industry..... ^
>
>OK, so, I'm a crap typer... It should of course be a 'W'....
>But you all knew that anyway....
>
Just as a minor note here. I've followed up the forwarding of Lou's post
to the ED list with a direct question aimed at Mike Mulvhill. Basically, I
tld him about this thread, and the rumours, and asked him to comment on it,
and hopefully tell us that it's complete Drek. :]
Don;t expect to see a reply until sometime next week, at the very earliest,
as Mike is at Origins this weekend...;]
See ya!
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:29:17 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: WotC's Acquisitiveness
In a message dated 97-07-18 17:08:30 EDT, you write:
<< TSR also stopped releasing new products and had a major layoff of
employees. I haven't seen this repeated anywhere else in the industry for
there to be a potential target for a buy-out. Stop crying the sky is
falling and get back to talking about Shadowrun or be quiet. Rumors are
rumors and I don't care to have my time wasted by them. Take this
conspiracy theory claptrap elsewhere.
>
Escuse me, but I do not think my post required that response. I was merely
participating in a discussion, inputing my thoughts. I have that right, just
like you.
I also don't see how you can say I believe that the sky is falling. I just
stated that I will wait until after Gencon to believe what Lou said.
Afterall, TSR said exactly the same thing before they were bought, but I will
also not go there.
Up until last month FASA only accounted for 3% of the role playing market,
TSR made up 70%. [according top comic retailer monthly] Gee, for someone who
is not producing product they make up an aweful lot of the market.
Besides most mail servers have a "DELETE" button in which you can skip topics
you do not want to read. I do it all the time, most recently on the thread of
the Orgasm spell.
Since everything has already been said, the only thing to do is wait and see.
You know, my previous post would have been my last on this topic until you
jumped all over me.
A polite "please, lets move on with another topic" would have been IMHO a
better approach.
-Bandit
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:38:16 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Kabael <kabael@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Totems -Reply
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:31 AM 7/18/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>Seriously though. Have the members of this list
>>concluded that the totems are real - objectively
>>and substantively real? This seems a bit too
>>AD&Dish for me.
>
I always took the Totems to be powerful spirits who guided the shaman, but
didnt supply his power, per se, they merely teach him how to use it porperly
(from their POV). They cannot be total figments, otherwise how would the
insect shaman be possessed by their totem, or the voudoun (connected IMHO)
woudnt be ridden. Explaining it away as pure hallucination trivializes it a
bit, but so does making the totems gods. OC, both explanations are MORE than
proper in the setting though. Many a mage and a shaman have duked out the
issue, I am sure : )
>Took me a minute to figure out what AD&D had
>to do with it, and then I figured out you meant
>clerics w/ "real" gods vs. magic users with "just"
>magic.
>
>Anyway, there are a few questions like this that
>Shadowrun the game system is agnostic about:
>Are totems real or figments, does conjuring
>summon or create spirits, does magic follow
>rules of nature or is it a thing of spirit and intent.
>(Actually the answer to the last one, like "Is light
>a particle or a wave?", is fairly clear: the answer
>is "YES")
>
yes no maybe so : )
>IMHO, if it were possible to devise an expirement
>that would answer these questions, some PHd in
>Thaumaturgy would have tried it already, and
>FASA would have revealed the result. Therefore,
>all such experements have been inconclusive.
>Therefore, in my game, neither the characters
>nor the players can know the answers to these
>questions (although they can have opinions).
>
>Totems come out of the collective unconscious,
>and whether the sixth age has given these
>archetypes (in the Jungian, not the SR sense)
>actual identities isn't clear. Maybe a dog
>shaman is simply in better contact with the
>dog-like parts of humanities collective brains,
>with the astral plane working like a giant
>switchboard of ideas, concepts and information.
>His subconscious becomes aware of something,
>and presto--Dog appears in his mind to tell him.
>
very hermetic :- )
k a b a e l meo the shoes :- ) kabael@****.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:03:05 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Nelson <kuthuga@***.NET>
Subject: TopCat love him with money or he'll hate you with hammers
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970718174012.082fddca@***.tiac.net> from
"Kabael" at
Jul 18, 97 05:38:16 pm
Content-Type: text
I have never seen one person take up so much space on a list before.
For that I have to give both TopCat, the list demagauge, and Bob, my
friend, a hearty applause. However, while watching this jihad carry
out has been interesting it has also gone farther and farther off
topic. This fact seems to bother some of the bandwith impaired so
allow me to offer a solution. I play in TC's Shadowrun, (pause while
everyone gasps that I survived), and have a nigh messianic insight
into people's souls :). So from now on when you want to know if TC's
Shadowrun is like a siberian gulag all you have to do is email me and
I will give you the straight dope.
Now to answer some of the more common questions I have heard;
1) Is TC a facist?
a: Not as much as you might think. While he is fond of the pulpit he
can usually be swayed by a reasoned arguement.
2) Is TC a huge Powergamer?
a: TC much like myself is a recovering powergamer. His condition like
mine stemmed from a case of good resource mangement skills and waaaay
too much free time.
and finally
3) Is TC the antichrist come to rage war on Brits and Liberal types?
a: Yes, but buy him a drink and he softens up.
Mike Nelson (your source for TopCat info)
mike@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 03:02:16 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
In-Reply-To: <970717201929_-1845253330@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <970717201929_-1845253330@*******.mail.aol.com>, "J. Keith
Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM> rambled on endlessly about We Don't Need No
Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
>In a message dated 97-07-17 03:03:10 EDT, chaos@*****.COM (Bull) writes:
>
>> Heh... Should I post Bull's stats? i think his lowest is now a 5...
> <heh>
>>
>> But then, when you get close to 400 Karma, what the hell do you expect??
>> Look at the shit we have to do...
>>
>>
>I would have to say the same thing about Binder actually, though his karma is
>a few higher than that.
Fascinating, in five years of playing Shadowrun, none of my players have
had characters, even the long term ones, anywhere near this Karma total.
Boy am I going to lynched if they find out. :)
--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:01:13 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
In a message dated 97-07-18 00:31:04 EDT, topcat@***.NET writes:
>
> Get where I'm coming from?
> --
>
Yeah, actually I do, but you ability to initially communicate that leaves
people such as myself somewhat confused and no less bewildered.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:34:47 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Designs
In-Reply-To: <199707180438.XAA05898@*******.fgi.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In message <199707180438.XAA05898@*******.fgi.net>, TopCat
<topcat@***.NET> writes
>Okay, here's how this would look... ex-Wildcat finds an ex-SEAL and they
>want to work together. Couldn't find two groups perhaps more opposed to
>each other (NAN and CAS). Throw in a Tir mage (everyone hates the elves)
>and it's a party! There's no real reason for them to be together (and yes,
>anyone can come up with some BS story that'll link 'em, but BS by any other
>name still stinks).
No need for a story... They've been hired individually and only meet up
when the job starts.
GM sits back and watches the fur fly :)
Fun for a one-off, but it wouldn't work as a campaign. They might get
the mission completed, but here I agree with Bob: I don't see a trio
like that volunteering to work together, nor staying as a team for a
moment longer than absolutely necessary.
--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 15:54:17 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Avenger wrote:
>
> In article <970717201929_-1845253330@*******.mail.aol.com>, "J. Keith
> Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM> rambled on endlessly about We Don't Need No
> Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
> >In a message dated 97-07-17 03:03:10 EDT, chaos@*****.COM (Bull) writes:
> >
> >> Heh... Should I post Bull's stats? i think his lowest is now a 5...
> > <heh>
> >>
> >> But then, when you get close to 400 Karma, what the hell do you expect??
> >> Look at the shit we have to do...
> >>
> >>
> >I would have to say the same thing about Binder actually, though his karma is
> >a few higher than that.
>
> Fascinating, in five years of playing Shadowrun, none of my players have
> had characters, even the long term ones, anywhere near this Karma total.
> Boy am I going to lynched if they find out. :)
Us either...I think I had the highest total ever with somewhere in the
neighborhood of 200.
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:05:24 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Designs
In a message dated 97-07-18 00:39:12 EDT, topcat@***.NET writes:
>
> Okay, here's how this would look... ex-Wildcat finds an ex-SEAL and they
> want to work together. Couldn't find two groups perhaps more opposed to
> each other (NAN and CAS). Throw in a Tir mage (everyone hates the elves)
> and it's a party! There's no real reason for them to be together (and
yes,
> anyone can come up with some BS story that'll link 'em, but BS by any
other
> name still stinks).
I'm not really certain I would have used something so quick, but I realize
that you are just example giving "on the fly". I would have wondered
"why"
the Wildcat and Seal are "ex", and what's with the Tir mage joining up. Look
at the potential linkups between Damien Knight and that one Sioux Mage (damn,
the one time I forget something).
> Ahh, but Shadowrun isn't just for Shadowrunners anymore (kinda like beer
and
> breakfast that way)... I think we all know that much by now. Also, in
> comparison to some of the things I've seen posted here, GBD and Troll Tank
> might well mesh right into a lot of campaigns out there.
On that note, true...but where do you set the Beer? Oh yeah, I remember now,
the "Cybermug", able to contain internally in your favorite cyberlimb for a
fraction of the space necessary (Volume???). Keep it cold for an indefinite
time just by adding in the "Netcooler", using the latest in pressured
Nitrogen (and it makes a really -cool- weapon to boot).
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:09:25 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Dragons at the end of an age
In a message dated 97-07-18 01:27:18 EDT, daddyjim@**********.COM (Loki)
writes:
M
e
r
c
u
r
i
a
l
S
p
o
i
l
e
r
s
f
o
r
t
h
e
U
l
t
r
a
S
e
n
s
i
t
i
v
e
>
> Now, Perianwyr isn't a great dragon so this would seem to imply that
> both great and lesser dragons both go into a sleep or stasis during
> times of low/no mana.
>
Okay, now I admit that it was 7 years ago (6?), but I recall Perianwyr being
a Great Western Dragon.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:51:31 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Things that always annoyed you in SR2....
In-Reply-To: <ufzprm9f1x.fsf@*******.hanse.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In message <ufzprm9f1x.fsf@*******.hanse.de>, "Shadowrun ML demon
<shadowrn-ml@*******.hanse.de>" <shadowrn-ml@*******.HANSE.DE> writes
>
>1.) White Phosphorous Damage Code:
>Giving White Phosphorous a damage level of "L" is pretty
>stupid. A person who gets burned would have third grade burns
>within fractions of a second and there is no way he could be saved
>today (although there might be one in the future...but only with
>MASSIVE treatment within really short time) and he would be so totally
>shocked from the first moment that he sure as hell would not think
>clear enough how to get rid of it... WP is something REALLY
>nasty.
It's nasty, but far from being utterly and totally fatal. WP casualties
survive quite nicely today.
Remember, it's not just you: you have team-mates to help you and they,
too, can administer treatment,
> Against Vehicles it is pretty damn effective, as well. If they
>aren't totally sealed they will suck in the flames and simply cook
>their passengers...
They'll only suck the flame into the engine compartment, if that. WP
isn't effective against any military vehicle tougher than a truck (even
Land Rovers can shrug it off)
>so increasing the damage level to "S" (at least)
>would be a good idea.
Disagree. The burning damage is more realistic. Remember, unless you're
carrying the grenade when it explodes, you're only being hit by a few
pieces, not coated head-to-toe.
--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:17:46 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: WoTC on TV (was: Re: WOTC/FASA)
Comments: To: swordman@******.net
In a message dated 97-07-18 04:05:21 EDT, swordman@******.net (Swordman)
writes:
>
> But did you keep and eye on MTV?
> I coaught the last clip of a Magic tornament. They guy who one looked
> like this seruously ripped dude babes all over him like he was Adonis or
> something, then I find out he's one of the finalists in this Magic
> Tournament, sponsered by MTV.
> The world just got a little darker.
>
>
Normally, I wouldn't even give Magic any sort of notification, but to this
one response, I can say.
DUH!!!
MtG has been building in popularity and economic (if such a thing is
possible) power for some time now. The only thing about that game that I had
to respond to most of the players here at one time was ....
"Gee, now that I know whom the real powergamers/munchkins are."
I am not saying that everything about MtG is bad, but it did help a lot of
people look at things differently.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:21:30 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Totems
In a message dated 97-07-18 04:47:59 EDT, cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU (Chris
Maxfield) writes:
>
> Seriously though. Have the members of this list concluded that the totems
> are real - objectively and substantively real? This seems a bit too
AD&Dish
> for me.
>
> Chris
>
> _
Good question (wow big Lightning here now), I know that the big spirit in
Nosferatu was what actually did the cyber-removal to the troll, but the troll
perceived it as Bear moving into him deeper.
I also know however that if the Essence/Magic were somehow restored (have
rules in the game, give the karma, we'll talk) then yeah sure, "Bear" would
gladly move into his/her Shaman quickly and more deeply (Den Instinct).
But, to query up an ED term. What about the Passions and the Loa? Those two
sets of beings are most notably -not- mental constructs in the normal sense
as Spells, Watchers and perhaps Ally beings.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:25:17 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
In a message dated 97-07-18 05:03:10 EDT, chaos@*****.COM (Bull) writes:
>
> I hate you all!
(Ramirez) "Good, that's a perfect way to start."
> I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
> Argh!!!!!!!!!!
I know this Sasquoi come Bandersnatch that has the number for a -VERY- good
salon and hair stylist...
> :]
> Bull
And Look, the Smile is showing through even better...
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:26:23 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: I guess it had to happen sometime;
In a message dated 97-07-18 05:06:02 EDT, wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU (William
Monroe Ashe) writes:
>
> I don't know if I just don't watch enough tv or what, but I saw an add
> for "Magic The Gathering" on the sci-fi channel. If WotC is going to buy
> FASA, they better stop advertising and save their money. I assume that
> WotC does the card game. I don't play myself. I don't have the money to
> indulge a Shadowrun addiction and a Magic addiciton. Some of my freinds
> that are really into magic have sunk hundreds of $$ into that game. If
> had sunk that much I would have an almost complete library.
>
Ya know, looking to my left and the complete SR library Mike and I have
accumulated, and then adding it all, we've sunk more than a couple of hundred
into things.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:30:35 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Zero-G Combat
In a message dated 97-07-18 05:18:13 EDT, schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU (Court
Schuett) writes:
This used to be Demon Magic and all, but I removed the sensitive stuff and
the spoiler blocks for quicker reading.
> The only problem with these, at least Ambi, off-hand, is that they take
> incredible (and I think mostly rightfully so) penalties to attack, making
> it almost impossible to hit. BTW, what is Zero-G fighting? Must have
> missed that. Is that in the Missions adventures? Is that any good?
I apologize, as Zero-G and Blind Fighting (the skill) are stuff that have
been developed here in response by the characters wanting to function better
in every situation they've been thrown through/in/across (and such good
skipping stones they make). We've argued that general mayhem in zero-g
requires modifiers as the physical laws a bit different (what with gravity
missing and all), so I applied a blanket +4 modifier to things. The Zero-G
Operations skill, uses the same karma cost as Ambidexterity, and defeats the
modifier.
Multi-G is something they are just barely getting into (crashing from orbit
while fighting the Elven Assassin did take some getting used to).
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:32:00 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Define "munchkin"
In a message dated 97-07-18 05:38:10 EDT, benjamin@*****.COM (Benjamin)
writes:
>
> I played a weretiger physad once. I still have the character somwhere.
>
>
Tiger's are good, Tiger's are cool...Shivowtnoeh was a Tiger Mage way back
when and the first character (he died lots of different ways).
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:33:52 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
In a message dated 97-07-18 05:59:47 EDT, dbuehrer@****.ORG (David Buehrer)
writes:
>
> Please keep in mind that the effectiveness of a PAC varies from game
> to game, and even from adventure to adventure. If you're playing in
> a high combat game involving high intensity conflicts a PAC might be
> what the character "needs" to survive. In you're game that isn't the
> case, but I just wanted to point out that the definition of
> Powergaming varies.
>
>
I have to agree. Recently the characters here went after Ubyr on the
Illinois. Sure it helped, but they couldn't stand it when the gun's shots
got a -bit- too close to their fighting. The troll with it (a phys ad, his
sword is his preferred weapon) didn't pay attention and nailed a friend.
Actually, he nailed himself too. Gotta love the AP variation shells.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:40:23 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Hobbit's Long Path (was Dark Conspiracy)
In a message dated 97-07-18 08:02:23 EDT, bluewizard@*****.COM (Steven A.
Tinner) writes:
>
> After all, then you'll understand why no one wants to see Imoortal Elves
in
> SR! ;-)
>
>
Here! Here! Give me the superaging, hypergrowth hormone and a few doses of
Laes in a solution. We'll fix those nutty IE's yet...
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:45:40 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
In a message dated 97-07-18 08:22:29 EDT, topcat@***.NET (TopCat) writes:
>
> What would you do if you saw a guy regularly walking down the street with
a
> shotgun in his hands? What would the police do? What would local gangers
> and criminal orgs do? Now change that shotgun to whatever weapon you want
> and then tell me what you want to buy...
>
>
Actually, one of my more striking early memories of Phoenix Arizona was of a
guy on a motorcycle (probably a Harley, who knows) riding along the road -in-
the city limits, he had a Shotgun (BIG THING), a Katana (No, I'm not kidding)
and what could have been a "heavy pistol". It didn't seem to stop him, and
the police officer was driving two cars behind him. Talk about a change in
society.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 00:16:18 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
In-Reply-To: <33CDCEEF.47EEC307@*********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <33CDCEEF.47EEC307@*********.com>, Caun Haskins
<caun@*********.COM> rambled on endlessly about Dark Conspiracy (Was -
Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
>I'll admit I never played DC (or for that matter a lot of other RPGs on
>the market) but I do play SR and was just wondering.
>Cyberpunk defiantly had it's influence on SR but where is Tolken and
>AD&D in it? (I played the comp. game of tolken's, never got around to
>the flesh version.) could you straighten me out? Thanks
>
Ok, this is a joke right?
Erm. well, in case it isn't.
Elves, immortal elves, dragons, ancient civilisations, more immortal
elves, strange critters, orks, dwarves, trolls, more strange critters,
more immortal elves. Immortal elves with incredibly ludicrous abilities.
Glorification of immortal elves in self sacrifice for worldly good and
other such doodoo. :)
<Wanders off to barf after mentioning IE too many times>
PS, if you haven't read Lord of the Rings, make an effort to do so, it
is considered the classic Fantasy novel series, and has had more than a
little influence on the fantasy genre.
>Caun :}
--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:49:39 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Design [Here it comes, TopCat!]
In a message dated 97-07-18 10:11:52 EDT, Victor-Fisher@******.COM writes:
>
> Kohl, who HATES to be antagonized before he's had his morning cup of
> tea!
>
>
Geesh, I hope you feel better now Kohl. By the way, where are you so I know
where -NOt- to be at any particular moment? ;)
-Keith (and my temper just destroys trees, wow)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:57:27 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Totems
In a message dated 97-07-18 10:51:56 EDT, wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU writes:
>
> Anyway my point is (I really do have one). I think that there are a lot
> of cool rolepaying oppurtunities if you allow the totems to be real
> independent entities. Note; nowhere does it say the totems have any real
> power in the material world.
I wouldn't want to have to be the one telling that to Spider.
> Imagine Raccoon wanting his shaman to organize a shadowrun just to tweak
> Cat's nose.
(Pondering) Now that could be a fun game...
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 00:03:52 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: TopCat love him with money or he'll hate you with hammers
In-Reply-To: <9707182203.AA12902@****.bcl.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In message <9707182203.AA12902@****.bcl.net>, Mike Nelson
<kuthuga@***.NET> writes
>
>3) Is TC the antichrist come to rage war on Brits and Liberal types?
>
>a: Yes, but buy him a drink and he softens up.
Buy a bigot a drink, and you've got a drunken bigot. Not wise.
Bob has his opinions, to which he is welcome, and which are often
sensible and well-presented. His problem is an apparently-hardwired
inability to comprehend a fundamental truth; that "different opinion" !=
"totally wrong". Add to that his preference for personal attack over
rational debate, and I can't see alcohol as offering any room for
improvement whatsoever.
Take his enthusiastic assertion, based on experience, that "most of the
military is unprofessional". I've got six years' experience to the
contrary concerning the British Army, and nine years of making toys for
the RAF and RN, that tells me this is incorrect - at least as far as HM
Forces are concerned. I've also got experience of training with the US
military that confirms Bob's opinions _of them_.
But there are other armed forces than the US military, strange though
this often seems to our colonial cousins.
There are more ways to play than the TopCat campaign: and what grates is
the constant assumption that he - and only he - knows the One True Way.
If he genuinely lightens up after a few drinks then I'm buying: but
somehow I doubt it.
--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:00:43 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Design [Here it comes, TopCat!]
In a message dated 97-07-18 11:00:35 EDT, mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM
writes:
<An interesting occurence being mentioned was snipped>
>
> Perhaps you guys should stop arguing the same side?
>
Nope, what they need to do is pay attention to their own words. Or perhaps a
Linguasoft in "Jumbledeeze" would help.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:05:40 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Demon Magic - Spoilers for anyone in a ENEMY type game!
Comments: To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
In a message dated 97-07-18 13:00:34 EDT, M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk (Mark
Steedman) writes:
> spoilers
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> If required you could reduce the interaction delay from 10 for the ED
> stuff with lots of attacks per round, PC's can get a maximum 2
> actions in ED (except for claw frenzy which is just obscene) while
> big horrors can get up to 5 physical + 5 spellcasting actions (though
> about 6 total is more reasonable).
> I did the one time i used a big (ish) horror, a physical action every
> 10, spellcasting actions 5 initiatives later, well had in not been
> shot by an LMG, Vindicactor loading APDS and an ATGM in rappid
> succession (yes the showdown was fixed so the PC's stood a chance, SR
> magicians vs Horrors is a joke)
> Mark
Yeah, well you want some really big fun. Give me a Great Form 6 being with
Sorcery and I'll show you how to do some dancing. 2 spells and 4 targets
attacked in a single action series. No problems, No drain, and all by the
rules.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:09:56 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [Admin] Long Range Game Design
In a message dated 97-07-18 13:58:14 EDT, topcat@***.NET writes:
>
> By the way, you ever follow through with the threat to unsubscribe anyone
> who continued the "Runner's Attitudes" thread in a threatening manner? If
> you did, you would've unsubscribed David Thompson for his post. I've got
a
> copy of it and would, at the least, like to know that he got reprimanded
for
> posting it. If nothing has been done, I'd like to know why?
Oooh, good question. Not to spark a fight or anything, but I seem to recall
that conversation myself. Whatever did become of that mess?
> Also, please direct such posts privately in the future as proper
netiquette
> demands. Makes things so much happier for all of us and keeps me from
> getting irate and the poster from looking hypocritical...
TC's right, I sort of have to admit, though I don't want to be caught doing
it (handing out 5 karma to anyone for a bribe!!! ;). However, Bob's post
could have been done in private as well, as a token of good faith (or that
part of the Philosophy thing?)
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:19:53 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: A WildCat, a Navy SEAL, and a Tir mage go into a bar...
In a message dated 97-07-18 14:52:30 EDT, Victor-Fisher@******.COM (Fisher,
Victor) writes:
<<< !!! Warning Fire-fighting Samurai have Entered the Building !!!
>>>
> (and yes, anyone can
> come up with some BS story that'll link 'em, but BS by anyother name
> still stinks.'
A geez, here it comes...
> To which Kohl replys:
> First off, TopCat, The SEALS work for the UCAS, NOT CAS! Second, as
> anyone whose actually been in the military can tell you, the prime
> reason for these two disparate peoples for working together comes down
> to one word...PROFESSIONALISM!
Excuse me, pardon me, first interupt. Game World Gentleman, both nations
have variations on the theme...
> A spec forces commando, if the objectives or opposition were the
> same, these two people would MUCH rather work together than with a bunch
> of disorganized, improperly (if at all) trained, UNPROFESSIONAL
> Shadowrunners [Yes, I know that there are many Sr groups that don't fit
> this mold, but the military mentality, even a really loose one like
> mine, tends to gravitate towards order of regimentation, as opposed to
> the chaotic decisionmaking evidenced by your typical 'amateur' Shadowrun
> team.].
Hey, working on the fly is required in many, if not most, decision made
plans. Be careful of the word amateur. Mice or Man, does it matter what the
game plan dives?
> If the Tir mage is also a former spook, works just as well. Not all
> spec forces teams love and share a 'warm, fuzzy feeling' for each other,
> BUT most are professional enough to work together to get the job done.
> And who knows, after working with their opposite numbers for awhile,
> they may just develop a grudging respect for one another. This would go
> a long way to laying down more lasting links between the trio, than to
> simply lump them all together as types that should get along and say,
> you're a team.
> Military, and spec forces in particular, are trained in a certain
> discipline that most amateur shadowrunners have no wish to emulate.
> [Look at Argent from Nigel Findley's books. He ran a team of
> Shadowrunners that was almost totally composed of ex-military, and they
> functioned like a well oiled machine. I'd say more, but then I'd need
> spoilers :-].
No, actually you wouldn't. Argent and his team, especially Peg (the decker?)
have a structure that most real game groups can't hope to emulate. It's
called total author override or GM Control Mode. A single GM can create an
awesomely well oiled machine, but a group of nutty cased runners by players
(be they any level of power or munchkinism) can destroy the machinations of
all.
> You seem to think that anyone who can come up with a interesting
> and CONVINCING storyline, OTHER than you, why these three should hang
> together is full of BS! Now, if THAT isn't full of hubris, and a good
> helping Mad Cow Kaka, I don't know what is! As a GM, you're supposed to
> HELP the players find a reason to stick together. It's hard, and it
> doesn't always work out, but that doesn't mean you aren't supposed to
> try. And don't give me the reason that you don't have the time. I'm
> pretty sure I'm a GOOD deal older than you are, and if anyone doesn't
> have time to waste on foolishness, it's me.
Okay, just what are the roles of the GM then? Guy, it must be me, because of
the last 4 major subjects that -I- have brought up, the two of you have jibed
or worse at each other.
> Only a civilian would make an assumption like that these three
> would have no reason to stick together as BS! [And NO, I'm NOT bashing
> civilians; I'm one right now, and enjoy it quite fine, thank you!] I
> suggest you take a look at the Shadowrun Military Page, and talk to a
> few of those guys over there, so's you get a better idea what you're
> meandering about.
On that topic, could I and the rest of the mail group have that address?
> Or, maybe I'm totally wrong, and they'll vindicate you. Who
> knows...
>
Vindication is sign of the totally out of control. Jurisdiction is the
boundary of the Legally Vindicated.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:58:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
In-Reply-To: <199707172051.PAA02084@*******.fgi.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In message <199707172051.PAA02084@*******.fgi.net>, TopCat
>Sounds good to me and it's essentially what I do as well. I told my players
>to think about this...
>
>What would you do if you saw a guy regularly walking down the street with a
>shotgun in his hands? What would the police do? What would local gangers
>and criminal orgs do? Now change that shotgun to whatever weapon you want
>and then tell me what you want to buy...
Sometimes still the big guns. But any weapon whose Concealability can't
be put up to 6 or higher is a rare sighting in a city (amazing how
popular concealable holsters and long coats become. Summer's a bitch,
though...)
If your campaign takes you into Southern Africa or some other area,
which in our game is decidedly lively, then assault rifles, MMGs, and
other infantry weapons are common... because _everyone_ (everyone likely
to be a threat, anyway) has them anyway, and it would be odd if you
_weren't_ carrying them.
Let them be seen in a UCAS city, though, and you're talking emergency
callouts of SWAT teams...
--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:24:11 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Attitude is Everything :)
In a message dated 97-07-18 15:19:28 EDT, mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM
writes:
> >When I read Mr.
> >Broadwater's posts I see a stern, intelligent man with a glint of
> >stuborness in his eyes. Again, it may not be true but that's what
> >his writing style is like.
>
> Hey, I can live with that. And what's with this Mr. stuff? I'm only 21.
:)
>
I'm not sure. I've been called Sir by people everywhere and get special
service when I dine out now. Damn, only 28 and going to far (though my lover
got really peeved when the waitress liked me more...)
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:27:10 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
In a message dated 97-07-18 18:34:11 EDT, Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK writes:
>
>
> Fascinating, in five years of playing Shadowrun, none of my players have
> had characters, even the long term ones, anywhere near this Karma total.
> Boy am I going to lynched if they find out. :)
>
>
(Pondering) That ain't wrong, but the lynching horns can be bought by a fixer
for a reasonable price. It's in Karma though, so you're players are probably
safe... +)
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 01:30:23 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Attitude is Everything :)
In-Reply-To: <970718202233_848849047@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In message <970718202233_848849047@*******.mail.aol.com>, "J. Keith
Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM> writes
>I'm not sure. I've been called Sir by people everywhere
I've been called "Sir" by a Regimental Sergeant Major.
A RSM has a way of saying "Sir" that makes it the foullest insult
imaginable.
After two or three of them, you would rather the Earth opened up and
swallowed you than that he called you 'sir' again in that tone...
It's a skill that, apparently, cannot be taught.
--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:04:31 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "David R. Lowe" <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: I guess it had to happen sometime;
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 7:26 PM 7/18/97, J. Keith Henry wrote:
>In a message dated 97-07-18 05:06:02 EDT, wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU (William
>Monroe Ashe) writes:
>
>Ya know, looking to my left and the complete SR library Mike and I have
>accumulated, and then adding it all, we've sunk more than a couple of hundred
>into things.
Dude, try being into gaming for 18+ years. $Thousands. And my girlfriend
continues to be amazed that I've lugged it all everytime we move.
D.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:27:50 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Design [Here it comes, TopCat!]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="------------FB37FCFE3F88C4FA323FDD00"
--------------FB37FCFE3F88C4FA323FDD00
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<Snip>
> Kohl, who HATES to be antagonized before he's had his morning cup of
> tea!
>
GREAT post, by the way do you have an opening in your SR group, if I'm
even remotly close i'll join immideanly!!!
Thanx
Caun :}
--------------FB37FCFE3F88C4FA323FDD00
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML>
<Snip>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<PRE>Kohl, who HATES to be antagonized before he's had his morning cup of
tea!</PRE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<P> GREAT post, by the way do you have an opening in your SR group,
if I'm even remotly close i'll join immideanly!!!
<BR>Thanx
<P>Caun :}</HTML>
--------------FB37FCFE3F88C4FA323FDD00--
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 22:23:36 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:54 PM 7/18/97 -0700, Caric wrote these timeless words:
>Avenger wrote:
>> Fascinating, in five years of playing Shadowrun, none of my players have
>> had characters, even the long term ones, anywhere near this Karma total.
>> Boy am I going to lynched if they find out. :)
>
>Us either...I think I had the highest total ever with somewhere in the
>neighborhood of 200.
>
Well... Consider this...
We played AT LEAST twice a week for a year, and at least once a week the
second year. Things have been a bit more sparse since then, but I'd have
to say we've played something like over 100 game sessions in the last 4
years with these characters. That averages out to 4 Karma a night, which
sounds right on par...;]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 23:21:23 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: (OT) Re: I guess it had to happen sometime;
In a message dated 97-07-18 22:05:34 EDT, dlowe@****.COM writes:
>
> >Ya know, looking to my left and the complete SR library Mike and I have
> >accumulated, and then adding it all, we've sunk more than a couple of
> hundred
> >into things.
>
>
> Dude, try being into gaming for 18+ years. $Thousands. And my girlfriend
> continues to be amazed that I've lugged it all everytime we move.
>
> D.
>
Already done that guy, try 15 years and several game types (which I'm certain
you have actually), 14 gamer roommates, 4-5 computers with over 100 diskettes
that I can remember. Yeah, I think we have something in common guy.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 23:26:32 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Karmic Rep (was : Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!!
In a message dated 97-07-18 22:28:18 EDT, chaos@*****.COM writes:
> >
> Well... Consider this...
>
> We played AT LEAST twice a week for a year, and at least once a week the
> second year. Things have been a bit more sparse since then, but I'd have
> to say we've played something like over 100 game sessions in the last 4
> years with these characters. That averages out to 4 Karma a night, which
> sounds right on par...;]
>
> Bull
>
(Pondering) Let me see, twice a week for one year, the most recent, 1-2
nights a week on smaller, off the wall games with smaller groups, average
game session nets perhaps 3-4 points that year.
Year before, actually 3 years before, puts game sessions at 4 times a week
solid, with 6-9 hour sessions (college is good for something ;), that for
several years actually.
I lose count.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 00:02:44 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jak Koke <jkoke@*RSULA.UOREGON.EDU>
Subject: Stranger Souls is #1
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Just thought I'd mention that Stranger Souls made the number one slot on the
LOCUS magazine bestseller list for June (in the Game-related fiction
category). This was it's first month in stores so I'm pretty friggin stoked.
My personal thanks to those of you on the list who've bought a copy. Also I
am greatly appreciative to those who've sent me email responses.
Ciao,
--Jak
Jak Koke La Jolla, CA
----------------------------------------------------------
I have a new (temporary) web page at:
http://ursula.uoregon.edu/~jkoke
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 00:30:52 -0700
Reply-To: hernandez@********.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: hernandez <hernandez@********.COM>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<SNIP>
> Actually, one of my more striking early memories of Phoenix Arizona was
of a
> guy on a motorcycle (probably a Harley, who knows) riding along the road
-in-
> the city limits, he had a Shotgun (BIG THING), a Katana (No, I'm not
kidding)
> and what could have been a "heavy pistol". It didn't seem to stop him,
and
> the police officer was driving two cars behind him. Talk about a change
in
> society.
> -Keith
Arizona is an "open" carry state. So long as the weapon is in plain view,
no license is needed to carry it.
MoonShadow
In the begining Man created God;
and in the image of Man created he him
hernandez@********.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 11:58:48 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: [OT] GW prices (was Re: FASA Being Sold?)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970718165215.2c976666@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Bull said on 17:16/18 Jul 97...
> But you're right, the plastics cost almost as much as the metal mini's
> anymore, and that's just ridiculous...
Not to defend GW's prices or anything, but there are a few a fundamentals
you need to keep in mind when comparing prices between metal and plastic
figures: plastic figures require expensive steel molds that last a
lifetime but are only cheap if you use them lots of times; metal require
not-so-expensive silicon rubber molds that'll only last maybe 25-50
good quality castings IIRC, and then you'll need to make a new mold. If
you need to make a small series, metal castings are cheaper than injection
molded plastic; for large series it's the other way around.
With the volume GW produces, plastic should probably be cheaper than
metal, but as I understand it (I don't play GW games, BTW) they base their
prices on the points values of the units, which IMnsHO is just plain
ripping off the customers, and doesn't really have anything to do with
production costs.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 11:58:48 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: A WildCat, a Navy SEAL, and a Tir mage go into a bar...
In-Reply-To: <199707181729.MAA12801@*******.fgi.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
TopCat said on 12:29/18 Jul 97...
> Actually, if you read through SR2 (which one would hope you might've) you'd
> know that SEALs could be of either UCAS or CAS. When the US split, military
> forces went to their respective countries based on their own personal
> loyalties. Now if you knew where they train at you'd know that they'd be in
> the CAS if that had anything to do with it
I imagine the UCAS would quickly set up a training facility somewhere
else, if they feel this is a unit worth keeping (which they obviously
did).
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 06:07:51 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: APDS Ammo
Howdy. (This is *not* a cue for the Bull-Bot to Bot me. <looks left, looks
right>) Anyway, I was BSing with one of my players on the ride home from
seeing Contact (Good flick) and wandered into this thought: Most weapons
that fire Saboted ammo today are smoothbore. That being Tank guns and
Shotguns. Then I looked in my handy copy of 3G3 and noted that normal
bullets are 3:1 l:w, while most saboted rounds are 10:1 l:w. IIRC, this is
because long-arm penetrators are unstable if you spin them. (Example: Take
a top and a pencil. Spin them, drop them. Which hits the ground on its
side?)
So I thought about how this applied to Shadowrun. OK, shotguns have no
problem. But what about rifled small-arms? How do they deal with APDS ammo?
I thought of three ways. One, (the easy way) was to make sure that the
sabot did not expand enough to engage the rifling of the barrel. Two,
placing inserts in the rifling of the barrel to change the weapon into a
pseudo-smoothbore. Three, replacing the barrel with a smoothbore barrel.
Four, not letting the PCs have APDS <g>.
For that matter, what happened to shotgun APDS ammo, such as is readily
available (in the US) from mail-order outfits like Blammo ammo? (I'm not
kidding. These guys sell all kinds of whacked out rounds for shotguns, up
to and including Dragons' Breath rounds, which turn the shotgun into a
short-duration flame-thrower. (They also do nasty things to the barrel.))
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 05:28:10 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: The cycles in general
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Ok by what I've read when the down man cycle began (right before the
dark ages?) the meta-races just stopped producing other meta-races and
had human children? or di they turn into humans themselves? then all
the meta-animals changed or did they stop reproducing as well? Then in
2011 they start coming back, why do the ork/trolls morph and dwarf/elfs
born? (this is what the Shadowland director said) Why is there a big
difference between the 4 meta-races?
I guess what I'm asking is for someone to explain the Mana Cycles to
me. I know someone will pick up this thread so thanks for doing it!
ô¿ô
\_/
Caun :}
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 12:01:43 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Attitude is Everything :)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970718141206.0091e2b0@****host> from "Michael
Broadwater" at Jul 18, 97 02:12:08 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|At 12:52 PM 7/18/97 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:
|>TopCat wrote:
|>|
|>When I read Mr.
|>Broadwater's posts I see a stern, intelligent man with a glint of
|>stuborness in his eyes. Again, it may not be true but that's what
|>his writing style is like.
|
|Hey, I can live with that. And what's with this Mr. stuff? I'm only 21. :)
Where I come from, you change from being a Master to a Mister at 18....
:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 12:08:14 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970718162911.2d873650@*****.com> from "Bull" at
Jul 18,
97 05:16:36 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|Orks... Well... SR is probably the only game I know of where Orks are a
|normal, viable race. AD&D came close with it's half orcs, but... That's
|still not the same... And Orcs in Tolkien were pretty much the same as in
|AD&D: Evil green beasties... They were also called Goblins in Tolkiens
|books...
Not the only one....
Paladium had Orcs as player characters, along with Hobgoblins, goblins,
changelings and Wolfen. 10 years ago.....
And quite a few LRP systems allow almost any race (that isn't unbalancing).
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 12:11:18 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: WotC's Acquisitiveness
In-Reply-To: <970718172910_-1977179908@*******.mail.aol.com> from "M. Sean
Martinez" at Jul 18, 97 05:29:17 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|Besides most mail servers have a "DELETE" button in which you can skip topics
|you do not want to read. I do it all the time, most recently on the thread of
|the Orgasm spell.
And this has to do with????
In order to DELETE a thread, you must first DOWNLOAD IT!
Duh!
Kill this thread, it's pointless.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 12:22:26 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Totems
In-Reply-To: <970718192128_-1977156447@*******.mail.aol.com> from "J. Keith
Henry" at Jul 18, 97 07:21:30 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|But, to query up an ED term. What about the Passions and the Loa? Those two
|sets of beings are most notably -not- mental constructs in the normal sense
|as Spells, Watchers and perhaps Ally beings.
I think you're looking at it in the wrong way.
Magic is based primarily in BELIEF, right?
A mage who doesn't believe in magic, can't cast spells.
(But if he believes in Spiderman, he might aquire a talent for
wallcrawling...)
Now, what about the entire population? What do *THEY* believe in?
The entire population of Barsiave believed in the passions. They passions
probably made their first appearance soon after the arrival of the magic in
the 4th world.
They only existed because they were CREATED from the collective unconcious.
They still, exist because of the few survivors, and the fact that some of
those survivors are starting passion cults.
The Totems also figure strongly in this.
Hell, even Jesus, God, and Satan probably started to exist (VERY POWERFULLY)
due to the billions that believe in them....
[It should be noted that I'm an athiest and firmly believe that man created
god to explain cosmic mysteries]
Now? When d'you reccon the second coming'll be?
:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 07:39:33 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Wow, wait a minuit, are you telling me that at one time orks and goblins
were thought of as the same thing!! I always thought of them as totaly
diferent races, they are adn will always be in my head totaly different.
(I can't see the goblins in anybody's books the same as any oof my SR
characters, That would just spoil my day!) Well I gues The Fantasy gener
is still under construction, where will it go next? and we learn
somthing new every day on the ShadowRN discusion group!
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 14:04:46 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
In-Reply-To: <33CF71FE.97A178DF@*********.com> from "Caun Haskins" at Jul
18,
97 07:39:33 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|Wow, wait a minuit, are you telling me that at one time orks and goblins
|were thought of as the same thing!!
In Tolkein books, yes.
In The Hobbit, they were known as Goblins, because the main character was a
Hobbit. In LotR, they were known as Orcs, because there were a lot of ELVES
around.....
Same race, different name....
I always thought of them as totaly
|diferent races, they are adn will always be in my head totaly different.
Most people see them as different these days/
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 09:30:07 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John Dukes <dukes@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:39 AM 7/18/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Wow, wait a minuit, are you telling me that at one time orks and goblins
>were thought of as the same thing!! I always thought of them as totaly
>diferent races, they are adn will always be in my head totaly different.
>(I can't see the goblins in anybody's books the same as any oof my SR
>characters, That would just spoil my day!) Well I gues The Fantasy gener
>is still under construction, where will it go next? and we learn
>somthing new every day on the ShadowRN discusion group!
>
In Tolkiens "The Hobbit" Bilbo refers to the orcs as goblins throught the
book. In the later ring trilogy they say something to the extent of "Mr.
Bilbo mistakenly called the orcs goblins." I think other RPGs like AD&D
always considered goblins to be smaller but more viciously intelligent
versions of orcs. Orcs are typically portrayed in fantasy gaming as hulking
barbarian brutes, where the weaker goblins often use crazy weapons of mass
destruction to do their evil. Personally I think the goblin grenadiers
flying around in goblin zephalins (I have no idea how to spell zephalin :) )
firing goblin bombs from a goblin catapult are much cooler.
John
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 01:31:01 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Totems
In-Reply-To: <3838.199707191122@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:22 19/07/97 +0100, Spike wrote (while referring to ED passions):
>They only existed because they were CREATED from the collective unconcious.
>They still, exist because of the few survivors, and the fact that some of
>those survivors are starting passion cults.
>
>The Totems also figure strongly in this.
I see from the answers to my question that some list members believe totems
to be real - but real in the sense that Spike describes above.
One of the aspects of Shadowrun that I love the most is the ambiguity and
mystery pervading the game. We never really know what's going on; the
motivations and goals of the Dragons, Megacorps, IE, governments, etc., etc
are open to question - if explained at all. This adds to the feelings of
danger and realism for me. The same goes for magic, particularly totems -
just what are they? This is left largely unexplained in the rules and is
the way I prefer it. [All apparent totem activities can be explained,
usually by a mage, as purely internal to the shaman. Even loa riding can
be explained in terms of some sort of Multiple Personalities disorder. :-) ]
However, by the way this list has been describing the activities of the
totems (eg a totem choosing its shaman rather than the other way round) I
had the impression that people seemed to have accepted the idea that totems
were fully independent of shamans. (Powerful entities residing in the
metaplanes and meddling in the affairs of mortals type stuff.) I was not
comfortable with this and so I asked the question about whether list
members believed totems to be real.
The replies show that other people also like to leave totems undefined.
Perhaps totems are the metaplanar incarnation of the Jungian archetypes
from the collective sub/unconscious. Or maybe not. Perhaps they are the
magical embodiment of shamanic belief. Or maybe not. Perhaps they are
powerful free spirits. Or maybe not. Or perhaps they only exist in the
shaman's mind as an alternate personality (any bi-cameral mind enthusiasts
out there?). Or maybe not. The one explanation that I cannot except is that
they are Powers That Have Existed Since Before The Dawn Of Time. They damn
well don't exist now in 1997 and so a good explanation is needed for where
they came from by 2058.
But my hermetic mage still thinks a totem only exists in the shaman's own
imagination. ;-)
Chris
_______________________________________________________________
Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 11:13:37 -0400
Reply-To: shergold@***********.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Shergold <shergold@***********.NET>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<snipped interesting stuff 'bout APDS>
> Four, not letting the PCs have APDS <g>.
Then why with that run with Sgt. Slaughter that part of our payment
included the Barett ? 8*) Of course it ended up as a decoration on my
characters wall. (Makes an interesting conversation piece.<EG>
SilverFire
"I merely chewed in self-defense."
-Draco the Dragon
"Dragonheart"
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 11:47:43 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
In a message dated 97-07-19 06:54:52 EDT, harlequin@*********.CA (Michel
Racicot) writes:
>
>
> ARRRRGHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhh!!!
>
> A wendigo decker!!! RUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!
>
>
And just remember, all you need is emotional connectivity to drain...a good
neural link, some psychotropic IC, and behold... (okay, just kidding- maybe)
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 11:58:16 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Totems
In a message dated 97-07-19 07:23:50 EDT, u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK (Spike)
writes:
>
> |But, to query up an ED term. What about the Passions and the Loa? Those
> two
> |sets of beings are most notably -not- mental constructs in the normal
sense
> |as Spells, Watchers and perhaps Ally beings.
>
> I think you're looking at it in the wrong way.
Maybe, but I don't think so. I am trying to look at it entirely differently
than the common thread. That doesn't make it wrong, it makes it different.
> Magic is based primarily in BELIEF, right?
The -usage- of magic maybe, but I don't think the power itself. If that were
true, then the Awakening would likely not have occurred. Reason being is
that I find it hard to believe that the entire world's belief in "the
unknown" had reached such a point as all that and it simply came into
existence. And if you could ask the IE's, you'd have to add the word "AGAIN"
to that sentence.
> A mage who doesn't believe in magic, can't cast spells.
> (But if he believes in Spiderman, he might aquire a talent for
> wallcrawling...)
This is the difference in philosophy and symbology if I recall correctly.
And the Grimoire and Awakenings books have stuff on the "mage who doesn't
believe in magic" theories.
> Now, what about the entire population? What do *THEY* believe in?
Collective Consciousness is a design flaw... (-wink-)
> The entire population of Barsiave believed in the passions. They passions
> probably made their first appearance soon after the arrival of the magic
in
> the 4th world.
I don't really recall that information being given anywhere in ED. Granted,
ED has the Passions, and for the game system, that is fine.
> They only existed because they were CREATED from the collective
unconcious.
> They still, exist because of the few survivors, and the fact that some of
> those survivors are starting passion cults.
Actually, this sounds more like a personal belief than something for game
mechanics. It's that really stupid argument on "my system vs. your system"
thing.
>
> The Totems also figure strongly in this.
I still wouldn't suggest telling Spider that, or a being that a collective
group of "spider shamans" -created-.
>
> Hell, even Jesus, God, and Satan probably started to exist (VERY
POWERFULLY)
> due to the billions that believe in them....
And don't ya just love how big game system/writers just skirt that issue.
Hell, I think Charrette was glorious with S. Verner's "God with God"
statement.
> [It should be noted that I'm an athiest and firmly believe that man
created
> god to explain cosmic mysteries]
>
> Now? When d'you reccon the second coming'll be?
I think it already has, the world just doesn't -BELIEVE- anymore ... we're a
blind race in general with no real ability to remain in touch to our
surroundings. Shadowrun is dealing with the concept of the "unimaginable"
being made tangible, or at least as close to that as the Karmic Winds will
allow.
> :)
(: >
-Keith (had to do that inverted smiley moustache)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 12:04:51 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Totems
In a message dated 97-07-19 11:34:37 EDT, cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU (Chris
Maxfield) writes:
> The one explanation that I cannot except is that
> they are Powers That Have Existed Since Before The Dawn Of Time. They damn
> well don't exist now in 1997 and so a good explanation is needed for where
> they came from by 2058.
>
One could look at it in a different fashion. The mana-bridge that is part of
SR's history allowed for the channelling to be created more readily. The
totems/icons whatever have you, have existed in mythology and earth historic
culture for untold of centuries. Perhaps they still exist, perhaps not?
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 02:14:15 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Stranger Souls is #1
In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19970719070244.0070660c@*rsula.uoregon.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> Just thought I'd mention that Stranger Souls made the number one slot on the
> LOCUS magazine bestseller list for June (in the Game-related fiction
> category). This was it's first month in stores so I'm pretty friggin stoked.
> My personal thanks to those of you on the list who've bought a copy. Also I
> am greatly appreciative to those who've sent me email responses.
Congratulations! <pinning a medal on Jak's chest and handing him a
cigar>
Lady Jestyr
----------------------------------------------------
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota
monax materiam possit materiari?
----------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 12:27:17 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 01:49:32 -0400 Bull <chaos@*****.COM> writes:
>I hate you all!
>
>I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
>
>Argh!!!!!!!!!!
>
>:]
Sorry, but I couldn't help but laugh:) It's a bad habit of mine. In any
case, Bull, look on the bright side: you're still alive! (Okay, if you
want to nit-pick, I guess you're undead:) And you can start taking Magic
lessons now:) And you can get recipes from the Mantids:):):) And there
are worse things, at least the wendigos are sentient (something that
can't be said about all vamps:) Of course, there's the small matter of a
there being a bounty on your head...
Question: if you're turning into a Wendigo, will your smiley and .sig
change to reflect it:)
--
-Canthros (one nice thing about shapeshifters: they don't get HMHVV,
AFAIK:)
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 12:27:17 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (was: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:16:36 -0400 Bull <chaos@*****.COM> writes:
<snip>
>Tolkien based SOME of his stuff on various Mythologies, but some ideas
>were
>his and his alone.
>
>The Elves, for example. before Tolkien, elevs were tiny pixie like
>beings
>with lots of magic. I can't recall a single fable or myth that had
>human
>sized Elevs. Tolkien was the first to make Elves what they're become
>today
>in fantasy fiction adn RPG's. Tall people, usually as part of a
>normal
>"race" of beings with their own govedrnment and such.
I think one of our former list members (I hate it when I can't remember
people's names:( was right when he said that Tolkien didn't actually
invent the idea of the tall, thin elf:) Tolkien borrowed quite a bit from
Teutonic (Norse) and Briton mythos, and the elf that Tolkien popularized
was probably influenced a great deal by the elf of Teutonic myth. I
personally enjoyed Tolkien's books immensely, wasn't bothered in the
least by the presence of the all-powerful elves:) But I like superheroes
and epics anyway:):) 'Sides, the elves didn't actually save the world,
they couldn't. They did, however, start the whole mess...
>Troll's are another example. While SR trolls aren't really much like
>Tolkiens Trolls, They're much closer to tolkaien's than AD&D's. AD&D
>Trolls
>were usually mostly mindless, tall skinny regenerating things.
>Tolkiens
>were Huge 10 foot tall beasties with minimal intelligence. However,
>they
>DID turn to stone in daylight, so...
I don't know. I don't know diddly about **&* (and it's probably safer
that way:), but SR's trolls really aren't too much like the trolls in
JRR's books (well, they're nothing much like the one's in the Hobbit,
anyway). I suppose they do kinda match the ones in the LotR...
>Orks... Well... SR is probably the only game I know of where Orks
>are a
>normal, viable race. AD&D came close with it's half orcs, but...
>That's
>still not the same... And Orcs in Tolkien were pretty much the same
>as in
>AD&D: Evil green beasties... They were also called Goblins in
>Tolkiens
>books...
AFAIK, Tolkien created the word 'orc', but I'm kinda afraid to really say
that, mainly because he borrowed so much from so many other places, I'd
be very surprised if he truly created them as they were in
Middle-Earth...
>Most of the fantasy aspect of SR comes from tolkien, while the
I think it's more like the fantasy aspect of SR is *heavily* influenced
by Tolkien, but I don't think I would say that it really *comes* from
Tolkien.
>futuristic
>stuff comes partly from Cyberpunk and the whole Cyberpunk Genre. It's
>an
>interesting blend, and makes SR very unique...:]
It's probably the one thing that originally drew me into the game. I
don't know of too many other games that combine both magic and tech
(CthulhuPunk, Rifts, I think, but not too many others:)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 12:27:17 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkins - (Slight Rant)
On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:19:54 +0200 Clen Cook <Clen@******.CO.ZA> writes:
>Let's face it - weren't we all Munchkins in the beginning?
I can't vouch for the entire list, but I'd say most likely:) I was, or a
powergamer at the least:)
>I know I was. Create an AD&D character - something unique
>and guaranteed to hack the other players off - like a Ninja
>or something ridiculous like that. Give him so many abilities,
>weapons and skills that he could conceivably take over the
>world by himself - and GO WILD!
Which is how I wound up with a shapeshifter-mage as my second SR
character:)
>That was fun, for a while. But then I grew up, and started
>role-playing. Most of the people I've played with have gone
>through that "power" phase. But we got over it, and enjoyed
>playing varied characters. Everything from hopeless rejects
>to mighty heroes etc etc . . .
I think I mostly decided that it wasn't worth the constant escalation of
power between myself and six other munchkins, especially since two of the
guys had characters that had to be worth 300-400+ Karma, if they'd been
played in a normal game...had to have a character that powerful to keep
up, then you had to have one a little more poewrful yet, then.... It got
real old.
>Hopefully some of the munchkins out there will either grow up
>themselves, or meet a benevolent GM who knows how to play, and
>they'll be willing to "learn".
I think it's better if they are intro'd to a game by a guy who isn't a
munch and does a good job of not allowing munchkinning in his game. I
know I wouldn't have been a munchy at all if I hadn't been intro'd to SR
by a pair of munchy-powergamer types (not that powergaming is bad:)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 11:04:19 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: [Admin] Bi-weekly Mini-FAQ
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
WARNING: Do not delete this email until the new one arrives in two weeks.
You may not need it today, but you may need it sometime before the next one
is posted.
You are all members of the ShadowRN mailing list, some of you dating for
years before me, both age and list-wise. This is the now official
Bi-Weekly Mini-FAQ, which takes the place of posting the large FAQ's very
often. They are of course still available at http://shadowrun.home.ml.org,
or you can email fro@***.ab.ca and request them.
BASIC HELP:
1. To unsubscribe, send a message to listserv@***tproc.itribe.net with a
blank subject and a body of 'unsubscribe ShadowRN Your@*****.address'
2 To get HELP, including the unsubscribe command, send a message to
listserv@***tproc.itribe.net, no subject, body 'HELP'
3. Read the help and the FAQ's before posting to the list or emailing me
asking for help.
POSTING GUIDELINES:
1. When replying to a message, be sure to quote what you are replying too.
1a. Snip the part that you aren't replying too, but don't snip so much it
becomes illegible
1b. Be sure to Correctly identify who said what you are quoting.
Good example:
----
On Friday July 18th Bull Said:
>So, what does everyone think of Target:UCAS?
I wish it was in the stores in Canada!
-Adam
-----
Bad Example:
-----
On suchaday Chez said
On suchaday Lucid said
On suchaday Hayden said
>>>Some text
>>20 lines of unreleated text.
>A few more lines of even more unrelated text.
>>Some stuff from the other poster.
Cool. I'd ground that through a quickening for a dollar!
-Adam
-----
1d. Snip a persons signature file, unless it is vital to the reply.
1e. Do not use Old-Shadowrun style quotes.
Example:
>>>>[Cool]<<<<
--Anonymous (10:44:37/7-19-58)
This confuses the people who are on both ShadowRN and ShadowTK, and looks
ugly, to boot.
2. After writing your email, take ten (No, take 20.) seconds to think
"Should this go to the list, or directly to the person I'm replying too?"
If its indepth and rather specific, it may be better just going to the one
person. This applies in triplicate if its a flame or if its OFF TOPIC.
3. Do not Start a thread that is already OFF TOPIC. [OT]. We get enough
[OT] from topic drift, anyhow.
4. Full logs since the inception of the list are available via anonymous
ftp at listproc.itribe.net, and at http://www.itribe.net/~mark
5. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.
Assistant Fearless Leader
Adam Jury
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 19:24:12 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paolo Marcucci <paolo@*********.IT>
Subject: [OT] GenCon
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
It's been a while from when I read some posts about GenCon. I definitely
will be there on 7th, who else?
GRANITE, you still mantain this list?
--------------------------------------------------------
Nice people going to GenCon:
FASAMike [If there are enough hours in the day]
GRANITE
Mike Broadwater
Bull
Fro (maybe)
Skye (yes... parents approval pending)
The Bookworm
Gossamer
Mike Paff
Caric
Court Schuett
Adam (another one or Fro?)
Nick Van
Droopy
Czar Eggbert
Paolo & Armanda (my gf)
Loki
NightLife
Onyx
Smilin' Ted
The Digital Mage aka Grant Erswell
Steve K.
--------------------------------------------------------
____________________________________________________________
Paolo Marcucci paolo@*********.it
InterWare Service Provider Trieste, Italy
http://www.interware.it/ Tel. +39-40-360630
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 17:15:27 GMT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Shadowrun ML demon <shadowrn-ml@*******.hanse.de>"
<shadowrn-ml@*******.HANSE.DE>
Organization: Nightmare on Coin Street
Subject: Re: [SR3] Things that always annoyed you in SR2....
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
"Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK> writes:
> It's nasty, but far from being utterly and totally fatal. WP casualties
> survive quite nicely today.
Uhm - I find this pretty hard to believe, I have to admit. As far as I
know having about 40% of your skin burned to third degree is already
lethal and even hot water can cause third degree burns without any
problems. So something that is sticky and burns a few hundred degrees
(what IS the exact temperature, btw.) is causing third degree burns
within fractions of a second... someone surviving being splashed with
that stuff (without any special equipment, of course). Maybe if you
only got a few drops... but whatever has been hit got a third degree
burn, so if more than 40% of the body has been hit you are dead.
> Remember, it's not just you: you have team-mates to help you and they,
> too, can administer treatment,
Yeah - but there is hardly anything you can do once a certain amount
of skin has been burned... at least not nowadays. I could imagine,
though, that in the future you'd have tanks with some special liquid
that could take over the functions of the skin until the body had a
chance to regenerate.
> > Against Vehicles it is pretty damn effective, as well. If they
> >aren't totally sealed they will suck in the flames and simply cook
> >their passengers...
> They'll only suck the flame into the engine compartment, if that. WP
> isn't effective against any military vehicle tougher than a truck (even
> Land Rovers can shrug it off)
Uhm. So what happens to the electronics and the rubber & plastic parts
of the engine when they get exposed to flames that burn at several
hundret degrees... my experience is that plastic, rubber and
electronics don't really like this.
> >so increasing the damage level to "S" (at least)
> >would be a good idea.
> Disagree. The burning damage is more realistic. Remember, unless you're
> carrying the grenade when it explodes, you're only being hit by a few
> pieces, not coated head-to-toe.
O.k. - first: We are not talking about the explosion damage, right ?
The grenade affects an area of 10 meters diameter (considering a loss
of power niveau of 1/.5m - I wasn't able to find any other statement
about the area covered by a WP grenade) and things in the center most
probably get pretty much splashed... otherwise the reach wouldn't be
as far.
So I can imagine that people/objects outside the core of the explosion
have a good chance of survival (although they probably get seriously
hurt), but in the core of the explosion ? I don't think so. A damage
code of "L" for burning white phosphorus on your skin is far too
low. Of course you can always have luck and roll down the damage, you
could try to extinguish it, your teammates could help you and so on, but
survival should be the result of these factors and not being granted
by the weapon itself...
Of course I know that you have more knowledge about weapons than I do,
but if you say people "survive easily" through an attack by white
phosphorus I'd like to know more about the factors that led to his
survival.
Later,
Georg
- --
Georg C. F. Greve <greve@*******.hanse.de>
http://porter.desy.de/~greve/
"People who fight may lose. People who do not
fight have already lost." -- Bertold Brecht
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: cp850
Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.4, an Emacs/PGP interface
iQCVAwUBM9D2LVZXgZXDxqJtAQGc+wP8DkmWx3IARK+bEKrLH6YCEqLWE++PcUgG
k+l/1O0gq79gh/84O+XM30S1sMVcv/7UQvthFBZfFDkZq6x7PP1FgT1hjp8sfKUD
7ptpSWF/ka+DYcW3kECNcPSHRlPO9OCTWtpP6gyzd7ZYySDAJcugy1BDrwgpCpqm
UVyYq/i7cls=
;C3
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 20:26:03 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
In-Reply-To: <01BC940A.17C68040@********.u96.stevens-tech.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Jonathan Hurley said on 6:07/19 Jul 97...
> Howdy. (This is *not* a cue for the Bull-Bot to Bot me. <looks left, looks
> right>) Anyway, I was BSing with one of my players on the ride home from
> seeing Contact (Good flick) and wandered into this thought: Most weapons
> that fire Saboted ammo today are smoothbore.
Actually, no. APDS rounds have been used since late WWII, and most guns
firing them have rifled bores -- the L7 (M68 to Americans) 105 mm tank
gun, for example. APFSDS rounds are generally fired from smoothbore
weapons like the Rh-120 (M256), but they have the FS (Fin Stabilized) bit
_because_ the weapon is smoothbore. APDS rounds spin like other rounds
fired from rifles gun, and they need it for stability. However, APFSDS
projectiles are generally longer than APDS projectiles, yes.
> So I thought about how this applied to Shadowrun. OK, shotguns have no
> problem. But what about rifled small-arms? How do they deal with APDS ammo?
> I thought of three ways. One, (the easy way) was to make sure that the
> sabot did not expand enough to engage the rifling of the barrel. Two,
> placing inserts in the rifling of the barrel to change the weapon into a
> pseudo-smoothbore. Three, replacing the barrel with a smoothbore barrel.
> Four, not letting the PCs have APDS <g>.
IMHO there is no need to go to all this trouble for firing APDS rounds
from rifled barrels, because the round _needs_ to be spun. The problem is
the other way around, if you ask me: shotguns must somehow spin the APDS
round for it to work properly. Still, since today rifled slugs exist for
shotguns, it shouldn't be too hard to apply the same tech to the sabots of
an APDS round.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 20:57:31 +0000
Reply-To: trrkt@******.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: SPELL: Totemform
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hmmm...
This is a spell I devised (under the watchful eye of my GM) for
shamanic initiates...
Shadow of the (Totem animal), i.e. Shadow of the Coyote, Shadow of
the Rat...
This spell can be cast only by shamanic initiates.
Drain: (F/2+1)S
Target number: 6
Duration: Sustained (the modifier for sustaining the spell is only +1
instead of +2)
Range: Personal only
Effect: The spell works like the (Critter) Form spell from the
Grimoire, allowing the caster to morph into one, predetermined animal
(namely - your Totem animal). It's effects are similar to the
Shapechange spell (shaman can cast spells in animal form, use
critter's physical attributes plus one-half the casting successes and
caster's mental attributes, the clothing and equipment does not
change with the caster), but the modifier for sustaining the spell is
only +1 instead of +2. Also, it allows the caster to mask the aura as
an aura of the totem animal. It works as the initiate masking, but
with one/half of the initiate's grade (round up).
Mike (Leszek Karlik) and J23TOM (Tomasz Kubacki) (TM, C and patent
pending)
All comments are welcome... Flames and mailbombs should be sent to my
GM at god@******.gov...
Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} GRD(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
Scrabble players can lay seven at one go.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 22:13:01 +0000
Reply-To: trrkt@******.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Re: SPELL: Totemform
In-Reply-To: <33D03F0B.3FBC@**.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hmmm...
> > Hmmm...
>
> > This is a spell I devised (under the watchful eye of my GM) for
> > shamanic initiates...
>
> > Shadow of the (Totem animal), i.e. Shadow of the Coyote, Shadow of
> > the Rat...
>
> > This spell can be cast only by shamanic initiates.
>
> I really don't see why.
Because it masks the aura. It is rather useful this way, and I think
that since masking is only available to initiates...
> > Drain: (F/2+1)S
>
> ...As opposed to Shapechange's (f/2)+2S or the more obvious comparison,
> (Critter) Form, with a Drain of (f/2)+2M. Given that this is a personal
> spell, the drain should be even lower.
Yes, but:
a) I had no grimoire with me
b) it has a Very Complex effect of masking the aura (as an ANIMAL, so
it changes the form of aura - rather difficult...)
> > Target number: 6
>
> I'd prefer to use the target's Willpower as a target number (possibly
> reduced by Initiate rating?)
Yes, but my GM felt it should be rather difficult...
> > Duration: Sustained (the modifier for sustaining the spell is only +1
> > instead of +2)
>
> Not sure why that bonus is given. With the 'Focused Concentration'
> Edge, does the modifier drop to zero?
Ummm... I don't have the SR Companion... And I gave this bonus
because the TOTEM grants the shaman some of the power to sustain him.
(Also, the GM thought it would be a nice bonus).
> > Range: Personal only
> > Effect: The spell works like the (Critter) Form spell from the
> > Grimoire, allowing the caster to morph into one, predetermined animal
> > (namely - your Totem animal). It's effects are similar to the
> > Shapechange spell (shaman can cast spells in animal form, use
> > critter's physical attributes plus one-half the casting successes and
> > caster's mental attributes, the clothing and equipment does not
> > change with the caster), but the modifier for sustaining the spell is
> > only +1 instead of +2. Also, it allows the caster to mask the aura as
> > an aura of the totem animal. It works as the initiate masking, but
> > with one/half of the initiate's grade (round up).
>
> That's not a terribly powerful spell, given that it's a Damage Code
> higher than (Critter) form. An Initiate should be able to mask his/her
> form anyway, regardless of which form he or she appears in.
Yes, but masking allows only to appear as a mundane human. An animal
with a human aura in astral space is a pretty obvious give-away,
isn't it? Now, think of the possibilities for the Rat shaman (you can
spell-cast in the animal form, after all...).
> Incidentally, I've often used Shapchanges into Totem form as an
> initiation ordeal for shamen....
Hmmm... Nice idea...
Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} GRD(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
If God exists that's his problem.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 22:27:52 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gunnerhansen@***.nethotel.dk>
From: Khayman <gunnerhansen@********.DK>
Subject: Re: Munchkins - (Slight Rant)
In-Reply-To: <19970719.122630.17063.5.lobo1@****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
On 19 Jul 97 at 12:27, John E Pederson wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:19:54 +0200 Clen Cook <Clen@******.CO.ZA> writes:
> >Let's face it - weren't we all Munchkins in the beginning?
Hmmm, past experiences tell me that people who have never read or
heard anything about the roleplaying world, be it scifi or D&D, will
be most likely to build a character with the sole purpose of being
the best & strongest.
<SNIP>
> I think I mostly decided that it wasn't worth the constant escalation of
> power between myself and six other munchkins, especially since two of the
> guys had characters that had to be worth 300-400+ Karma, if they'd been
> played in a normal game...had to have a character that powerful to keep
> up, then you had to have one a little more poewrful yet, then.... It got
> real old.
>
Just a question for you guys: 300-400 KP !?! How many KP do award in
each game? how many games have you played?
>
> I think it's better if they are intro'd to a game by a guy who isn't a
> munch and does a good job of not allowing munchkinning in his game. I
> know I wouldn't have been a munchy at all if I hadn't been intro'd to SR
> by a pair of munchy-powergamer types (not that powergaming is bad:)
>
Right! Some discipline and strict teaching! That'll do the job : )
Khayman
Mikkel Hansen, Denmark, Maribo 4930 EMail: gunnerhansen@********.dk
Homepage: http://cybercom.dk/remote/mikkel/greenman.htm
"Alas, ice surround me, my hand burns itself on the icyness!
Alas, thirst is in me, it craves after your thirst." -Nietzsche (my trsl.)
________________________________________________________________________
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS/GP d-- s++:++ a19 C+++ U--- P L---- W++ w+95
M-- PS+++ PE- Y+ PGP--- t- X+ R++ tv- b++ D+++ G
e h r- y+/y**
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 19:31:36 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970718014901.26dfecfc@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 18-Jul-97 wrote Bull:
>I hate you all!
>I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
>Argh!!!!!!!!!!
>:]
Hey its not my fault. You are better of with the wendigo thing
opposed to some other ideas mine inclusive.
And if its true you got some LONG time goal to get rid of the HMHVV
you can become a figure of legend by finding a cure.
So good luck to you.
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 19:33:23 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
In-Reply-To: <33CFF419.7E98@********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 18-Jul-97 wrote Caric:
>Us either...I think I had the highest total ever with somewhere in the
>neighborhood of 200.
As I have mention at the beginning of the week I have just crossed
500 karma :-]
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 23:01:06 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
In-Reply-To: <19970719.122629.17063.3.lobo1@****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 19-Jul-97 wrote John E Pederson:
>-Canthros (one nice thing about shapeshifters: they don't get HMHVV,
>AFAIK:)
I strongly hope the can`t or my GM would surely try this to hurt me anymore.
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 22:06:07 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970719112456.00b88900@****.interware.it> from "Paolo
Marcucci" at Jul 19, 97 07:24:12 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|It's been a while from when I read some posts about GenCon. I definitely
|will be there on 7th, who else?
|
|GRANITE, you still mantain this list?
|--------------------------------------------------------
|Nice people going to GenCon:
ACK!
Does <sob>
Does this mean, I'll be all alone??? <sob>
<SOB>
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 17:15:28 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OOC?
On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:54:18 +1000 Glenn Munro <eazy@*****.COM.AU>
writes:
>The man who made it did not want it;
>The man who bought it did not use it;
>The man who used it did not know it.
Unless he was a vampire..
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 17:15:28 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:58:04 EDT Peter David Boddy writes:
[snip Wendigo song :) and story]
Yeah, mix one wendigo, a "tribe" of Dour (little halfling sized, awakened
primates - borderline sentient, see PAoNA) and the sewers... Oh, and
don't forget the Cthulhu-inspired totem that the Wendigo followed. The
result is the run-in that my group had with a wendigo.
What started out as a simple meet with a contact, turned into something
QUITE different.
They were supposed to meet this guy at bar in the barrens (original
huh?), and after about two hours of waiting they started getting a bit
suspicious... after asking around they found some degenerate squatter who
knew something (of course given his stuttering, and attention problem it
took them a while to get it out of him) and led them to the guy's car
where he saw "a bunch of lil' fragger's jump 'im.." Using detection
spells and stuff the search headed into the sewers and into the dour's
territory (and the traps that come with it... one PC nearly drowned when
he got his leg caught in a spiked hole.). Eventually they came to the
center... still not seeing anything other than motions in the shadows,
just out of sight. And after getting a look at this very bizarre
statue... things started coming out of the wood-work, literally. The
wendigo controlled tribe of dour came out of every knook and cranny from
all sides... along with some protean-like spirits. They barely made it
out alive. I don't think one PC will ever go near a hairy ork ever
again, after he fatally (or so he thought - ain't regen cool) impaled it
with a Halberd (don't ask why he had it... I don't remember) and it
pulled the halberd out and flung him (still holding on to the other end)
across the cavern. After which, only the heavy application of flamebombs
enabled them to escape. They have know idea if the cult is still alive
or not, and are a bit more cautious when it comes to the barrens... and
down one contact.
~Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 22:19:14 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OOC?
In-Reply-To: <19970719.142201.4807.0.z-i-m@****.com> from "Tim Cooper" at
Jul
19, 97 05:15:28 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:54:18 +1000 Glenn Munro <eazy@*****.COM.AU>
|writes:
|>The man who made it did not want it;
|>The man who bought it did not use it;
|>The man who used it did not know it.
DAMN I hate riddles....
Especially ones I knew (and later forgot) the answers to....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 22:24:06 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OOC?
In-Reply-To: <4332.199707192119@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk> from "Spike"
at
Jul 19, 97 10:19:14 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
||
||On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:54:18 +1000 Glenn Munro <eazy@*****.COM.AU>
||writes:
||>The man who made it did not want it;
||>The man who bought it did not use it;
||>The man who used it did not know it.
|
|DAMN I hate riddles....
|Especially ones I knew (and later forgot) the answers to....
Errr..... Poison????
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 17:24:24 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OOC?
>>The man who made it did not want it;
>>The man who bought it did not use it;
>>The man who used it did not know it.
>
>Unless he was a vampire..
dingdingding.. we have ourselves a winnah!
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 19:02:28 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
In-Reply-To: <01BC940A.17C68040@********.u96.stevens-tech.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sat, 19 Jul 1997, Jonathan Hurley wrote:
> But what about rifled small-arms? How do they deal with APDS ammo?
> I thought of three ways. One, (the easy way) was to make sure that the
> sabot did not expand enough to engage the rifling of the barrel. Two,
> placing inserts in the rifling of the barrel to change the weapon into a
> pseudo-smoothbore. Three, replacing the barrel with a smoothbore barrel.
> Four, not letting the PCs have APDS <g>.
Actually sabot rounds for long rifles exist today. They are called
"accelerator" rounds. You can buy them for the 30.06. The actual bullet
is a .22 cal but the plastic (I guess) makes up the difference. The
bullet discards the sabot and travels on to the target at 2 to 3 times
the speed of a similar .30 bullet.
I hope this helps
-Bill
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 02:13:38 +0000
Reply-To: trrkt@******.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Bows and crossbows
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hmmm...
I have recently created a character who has no Firearms skill, and
his main weapon (well, besides his hands and knives) is a bow. And,
when reviewing the SR rules concerning archery, I saw that bows were
severely shortchanged in comparison to crossbows.
I am talking about the rate of fire, which is the same in both cases
(simple action to ready and simple action to shoot). This is
ludicrous. After all, the main advantage of the bow was it's high
rate of fire...
So, I came up with this simple solution: make the readying of a bow
a free action (though I think this would require easy acces to
arrows, like stuck in the ground before you, or in a quiver on your
hip). This way, you get 3 shots from a bow each 2 combat phases,
whereas you get 2 shots from a crossbow each 2 combat rounds.
This makes bow slower then SA weapons (figures), faster then SS
weapons (kinda figures, too) and faster then crossbows (which are
still too fast... Maybe make readying a crossbow a complex action,
and increase the power slightly to reflect the power of your average
x-bow).
Oh, yeah, and arrows and bolts are resisted by Impact armor (I hope
this written somewhere...)
I also hope this is not one of the "once a week" topics on this
list... (It was not in the FAQ, anyway)...
Oh, yeah, the newbie intro (I hate that part):
Hello. I'm a newbie to this RPG biz. I joined this list 'cause I just
started playing ShadowRun. This is a really cool game, and makes for
a nice change after my four months AD&D campaign. At least I could
retire my level 19/19/19 Drow Fighter/Mage/Cleric that had attained
demigod status... I'm currently creating a similar character for SR.
My main complaint is that I have only one A category... This creation
system is Dumb. (And is there a ShadowRun Drow race? And what is this
funny "munchkin" term some people use on the Internet?).
<grin, duck & run>
Mike (Leszek Karlik): http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike/index.htm
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1
GH/L/O d-(--) s+:- a19 c+++ U?>+ P L>++ E? W++>+++ N++(+++) o+@ K? w(---) O@
M- V? PS+(+++) PE Y PGP- !t--- 5+(-) X>+ R++>+++$ tv- b++++ DI? D+ G-- e h--*!
!r-- y-*
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 19:22:05 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Dragons at the end of an age
In-Reply-To: <970718190802_1279902233@*******.mail.aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:09 PM 7/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
#In a message dated 97-07-18 01:27:18 EDT, daddyjim@**********.COM (Loki)
#writes:
#
#M
#e
#r
#c
#u
#r
#i
#a
#l
#
#S
#p
#o
#i
#l
#e
#r
#s
#
#f
#o
#r
#
#t
#h
#e
#
#U
#l
#t
#r
#a
#
#S
#e
#n
#s
#i
#t
#i
#v
#e
#
#>
#> Now, Perianwyr isn't a great dragon so this would seem to imply that
#> both great and lesser dragons both go into a sleep or stasis during
#> times of low/no mana.
#>
#Okay, now I admit that it was 7 years ago (6?), but I recall Perianwyr being
#a Great Western Dragon.
#-Keith
nope, it's just a western dragon
am running that scenario at the moment
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 02:51:50 +0000
Reply-To: trrkt@******.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Question concerning movement
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hmmm...
I have always thought that reflex enhancements, among other things,
allow one to, well, run like hell. This was mainly due to the story
in the SR2, where Nameless states that "movin' through a downtown
crowd at 70 kph isn't the smart thing to do". Also, when I saw that
initiative and reflex enhancements really do matter (unlike CP2020,
which is one of the reasons why I prefer SR to CP...), and that they
give additional actions, I thought: "That figures. With reflex
enhancement, I can have 2 or more combat phases a turn instead of the
normal one, so I can take two running actions and run at twice the
human rate...".
But recently, when translating the available Actions into Polish for
those unfortunate co-players of mine who don't know the language of
Shakespeare, I've found this little sentence in the "Movement"
section of "Combat" chapter:
"Characters who have multiple Actions may run only in one of those
Combat Phases, but it does not matter which."
Does this make sense?
Nope. (Run walk walk, walk run walk, walk walk run... Kinda stupid,
isn't it?)
So, what do you think about it?
Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
If the French won't buy our lamb we won't use their letters.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 21:01:32 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: SPELL: Totemform
On Sat, 19 Jul 1997 22:13:01 +0000 "Mike (Leszek Karlik)"
<trrkt@******.com> writes:
>> > This spell can be cast only by shamanic initiates.
>>
>> I really don't see why.
>
>Because it masks the aura. It is rather useful this way, and I think
>that since masking is only available to initiates...
I think it was the 'shamanic' part he was disputing...
>> > Range: Personal only
Why? Why wouldn't the Totem give the shaman the ability to pass such a
'gift' to another person?
>> That's not a terribly powerful spell, given that it's a Damage Code
>> higher than (Critter) form. An Initiate should be able to mask
his/her
>> form anyway, regardless of which form he or she appears in.
>
>Yes, but masking allows only to appear as a mundane human. An animal
>with a human aura in astral space is a pretty obvious give-away,
>isn't it? Now, think of the possibilities for the Rat shaman (you can
>spell-cast in the animal form, after all...).
I think your point on Masking is open to debate. What it says is that it
'hides the true nature of the magician's aura, allowing him to appear as
a mundane when assensed.' In my mind, at least, there's no reason he
shouldn't be able to make his aura appear as whatever the heck he wants,
it hides the aura's true appearance, I see no reason the initiate should
be limited to the appearance of a mundane or a non-initiate if he prefer
something else. One could assume, however, that a mundane of the
magician's race is the default appearance, else a dragon or one of the
<gasp> IE would be unable to appear as anything but a dragon or Immortal
Elf (we'll ignore the fact that such persons don't exactly obey the
normal game rules:)
While, I'm talking, your e-mail reply-to isn't getting over-ridden by the
listproc. You might have fewer problems with it if you leave the reply-to
blank...
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 21:01:32 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkins - (Slight Rant)
On Sat, 19 Jul 1997 22:27:52 +0000 Khayman <gunnerhansen@********.DK>
writes:
>On 19 Jul 97 at 12:27, John E Pederson wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:19:54 +0200 Clen Cook <Clen@******.CO.ZA>
>writes:
>> >Let's face it - weren't we all Munchkins in the beginning?
>Hmmm, past experiences tell me that people who have never read or
>heard anything about the roleplaying world, be it scifi or D&D, will
>be most likely to build a character with the sole purpose of being
>the best & strongest.
Probably true. Also expect something similar out of those who read lots
of comic books:)
<snip'd>
>Just a question for you guys: 300-400 KP !?! How many KP do award in
>each game? how many games have you played?
Myself? Played? Eh, a handful. I don't usually manage more than a
half-dozen a year and awards were running approx. 7-10 Karma (yeah, it's
rather high), but that's lower than when I wasn't GM, when awards upwards
of 10 or 11 were low:) As for 300 to 400 Karma, that's just a guess. I
have no idea how much those two nitwits had munched into the characters
(1-2 year old characters in a monty haul campaign where two guys, one of
which was the GM, each played a character. NOTE: only a guess:) All I
really know is that they were close friends (at the time, anyway) and
that there weren't too many people to play SR or Werewolf or Vampire or
AD&D or whatever game system they were abusing this week:) and that they
played fast and loose with the rules (racial maximums? Different Karma
costs for skills and attributes? Role-playing? What? :) BTW, the highest
amount of Karma any character picked up that I know of (excepting the two
monsters above:) was about 56 or so, and that was my character:) Current
NPC stats for said character are worth around 500 or 600 Karma, just
guesstimating:)
>>
>> I think it's better if they are intro'd to a game by a guy who isn't a
>> munch and does a good job of not allowing munchkinning in his game. I
>> know I wouldn't have been a munchy at all if I hadn't been intro'd to
SR
>> by a pair of munchy-powergamer types (not that powergaming is bad:)
>>
>Right! Some discipline and strict teaching! That'll do the job : )
Well, that's what I think, anyway. It seems to work, so long as they
don't get turned over to a munchkin GM right after their first game or
three (guess what the crowd I play seems to have in excess?)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 04:24:23 +0000
Reply-To: trrkt@******.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Bows and crossbows
In-Reply-To: <yam7140.129.136867032@****.amigaworld.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hmmm...
> From: Barbie <barbie@**********.com>
> [snip bow-crossbow]
>
> I would rule that the crossbow needs a complex action to ready.
> And keep the bow at a simple action.
> Makes life easy for all and keeps the bow from been owerpowered.
Hmmm... Yeah, I kinda like it.
<stupid stuff I wrote at 3 am snipped>
> Yep its a coolgame.
> If you want some fancierstuff for character generation I suggest you to get a
> copy of
> the SR companion. Something like the drow is included too.
Yep, I know. However, I'm not living in States. I bought most of my
Star Wars rulebooks by direct mail order from States and it was
faster than waiting for them to appear in my local RPG shop. :((
> Munchkin, just stay a bit with us and you will know.
I know the term... I was just being kinda sarcastic. Still, I would
classify myself as a slight min-maxer (OK, so I do have powergaming
tendencies. Sue me. I guess it's from watching too many Seagal
movies... :P ).
Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
I looked up my wife's family tree - half the family were still living in it!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 04:24:23 +0000
Reply-To: trrkt@******.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Bows and crossbows
In-Reply-To: <199707200117.UAA16586@***-ix11.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hmmm...
From: mbreton@**.netcom.com (Matb)
> >ludicrous. After all, the main advantage of the bow was it's high
> >rate of fire...
>
> Mechanical crossbows, maybe?
I doubt it. Something like this should be mentioned, after all...
> >still too fast... Maybe make readying a crossbow a complex action,
> >and increase the power slightly to reflect the power of your average
> >x-bow).
>
> Crossbows need a power boost, considering the damage a Troll can wreak
> with a compound bow. (And then add on Dikoted arrowheads and a
> smartlink....)
Yeah, that's what I think, too... Like, add +2 to the power of
crossbow bolts... (Kinda figures, since they did pierce the armour
quite easily).
OTOH, Troll with a compound bow can and should wreak damage. Bow is
better than a crossbow, and x-bows are stronger only because they use
stronger materials, able to store more energy. Now, the bow has
longer arms, so a bow with a tensile strength of a crossbow bow would
be a truely fearsome weapon (and a one only usable by a troll...).
> It's why they're under the header "Impact Projectile Weapons" in the
> Weapons section. It's a bit clearer in the armor section.
OK... I see...
(intro snipped)
Ummm... I was just kidding about the AD&D and f/m/c character
(who, BTW, could not be created according to AD&D rules...).
> I've seen newbies try and pass off characters with all "A" priorities
> before, sigh. If you want a different creation system, take a gander
> at the Shadowrun Companion, which provides two alternatives.
Oh, yeah. I guess I should issue a small correction here:
In reality, I play RPG's from four years, and SR from 2 years. (I
also happen to like SR mechanics of successes, and prefer them to
adding of all the damn D6s in Star Wars...)
And, unfortunately, here in Poland my GM buys what is available, and
not what he wants... No Companion... <sigh>
> It's also got what comes closest to SR Drow, the Night Ones. They
> don't live underground, but they don't like daylight either (nor are
> they all ambidextrous or magic-users -- sorry, but I really hated Drow
> in AD&D, Drizz't included.)
Yeah. But AFAIK there were no Night Ones in the Fourth World, now
were they (OTOH ED shows only a small portion of the fourth world, so
one does not need to be constrained by the 8 Name-Giver races...).
> And, um, there aren't any Fighter/Mage/Clerics in SR. There aren't
> classes. (You could say mages are hermetics and clerics are shamans,
> but you can't be both.)
I know.. That's why I like non-classed systems (umm... that would be
GURPS, Star Wars, SR, Amber and lotsa others..). That's also why I
don't like CP2020...
Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
Phoneco.sys corrupted - recommend competitive market
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 04:24:23 +0000
Reply-To: trrkt@******.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Re: SPELL: Totemform
In-Reply-To: <19970719.210002.3135.3.lobo1@****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hmmm...
> >> > This spell can be cast only by shamanic initiates.
> >> I really don't see why.
> >Because it masks the aura. It is rather useful this way, and I think
> >that since masking is only available to initiates...
> I think it was the 'shamanic' part he was disputing...
Oh, yeah. I see. Well, mages have no Totem, so this would be kinda
poinless for them (I suppose). A shamanic adept could cast
it, too...
> >> > Range: Personal only
> Why? Why wouldn't the Totem give the shaman the ability to pass such a
> 'gift' to another person?
Well, because draws directly on the strength of the totem, which is
given as a form of "reward" for the caster. (Also, it lowers the
drain code :P ).
But I see it could be disputable...
> >Yes, but masking allows only to appear as a mundane human. An animal
> >with a human aura in astral space is a pretty obvious give-away,
> >isn't it? Now, think of the possibilities for the Rat shaman (you can
> >spell-cast in the animal form, after all...).
> I think your point on Masking is open to debate. What it says is that it
> 'hides the true nature of the magician's aura, allowing him to appear as
> a mundane when assensed.' In my mind, at least, there's no reason he
> shouldn't be able to make his aura appear as whatever the heck he wants,
> it hides the aura's true appearance, I see no reason the initiate should
> be limited to the appearance of a mundane or a non-initiate if he prefer
> something else. One could assume, however, that a mundane of the
> magician's race is the default appearance, else a dragon or one of the
> <gasp> IE would be unable to appear as anything but a dragon or Immortal
> Elf (we'll ignore the fact that such persons don't exactly obey the
> normal game rules:)
Hmmm... Yeah, if the GM rules you're able to mask yourself as
whatever you want, I guess you're better off with a Personal
Critterform... :> Still, the only +1 for sustaining as a gift from
the totem is nice. (Of course, I would rule that it's not cumulative
with the Focussed Concentration. Or maybe it is? Darn, I guess it
would be worth the higher drain... Anyway, we have no Companion, thus
no E&Fs...)
> While, I'm talking, your e-mail reply-to isn't getting over-ridden by the
> listproc. You might have fewer problems with it if you leave the reply-to
> blank...
Thanks...
Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
Michael Cross - clan Nosferatu, computer hacker.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 23:13:02 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Kabael <kabael@****.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:06 PM 7/19/97 +0100, you wrote:
>|
>|It's been a while from when I read some posts about GenCon. I definitely
>|will be there on 7th, who else?
>|
>|GRANITE, you still mantain this list?
>|--------------------------------------------------------
>|Nice people going to GenCon:
>
>ACK!
>
>Does <sob>
>Does this mean, I'll be all alone??? <sob>
>
><SOB>
I SHOULD be going, if all goes according to plan (everyone cross your
fingers please!)
of course, no one really knows me on this list : )
k a b a e l meo the shoes :- ) kabael@****.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 23:12:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: I guess it had to happen sometime;
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
> Date: Friday, July 18, 1997 1:57 AM
> I don't know if I just don't watch enough tv or what, but I saw an add
> for "Magic The Gathering" on the sci-fi channel. If WotC is going to buy
> FASA, they better stop advertising and save their money. I assume that
> WotC does the card game. I don't play myself. I don't have the money to
> indulge a Shadowrun addiction and a Magic addiciton. Some of my freinds
> that are really into magic have sunk hundreds of $$ into that game. If
> had sunk that much I would have an almost complete library.
I had a similar problem a few years ago. I sunk a few hundred dollars into
MtG and had a very hard time keeping up with their quarterly updates.
Thus, I gave away (yes, GAVE) my several hundred dollar MtG collection.
Recently, I saw the MtG CD Rom game. I bought it. Why? Cause I can play
against the computer in an isolated environment without having to worry
about the computer picking up a bazillion starter packs that I don't know
anything about and can't design my deck around.
This has been the best solution I have ever seen (without just giving up
the game altogether).
> regards
> Bill
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 06:10:44 +0000
Reply-To: trrkt@******.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Munchkin man :P
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hmmm...
I've been reading through the Paranoid Animals of NA, and saw the
Speed Samurai archetype...
What a wussie... :P
Now, think about that: a physical adept (or, better yet, physical
mage) with at least 1st grade initation (so he can have the +2D6
bioware and the max. adept initiative increase (+3D6) for IIRC 5
magic points...). Now, that gives him a 6D6 initiative, but that's
not all... Now, add an increase reflexes +3D6 spell, for a total of
9D6 initiative. And now Critterform him into a tiger or a panther,
for an additional 2D6 to initiative. Voila, a whopping 11D6
initiative, for an average roll of 33, whitout counting the reaction.
Make the critterform force 6, cast with 6 magic pool and 12 successes
(Karma and Team Karma), that adds +6 to all physical attributes of
the tiger, increasing the reaction by 3 (at least).
(I think I should be shot, to miminalize the suffering of my
immediate entourage. Heh. :P )
PS: Oh, yeah, the physical mage could cast spells in critterform.
Talk about a spellvindicator... :>
MUHAHAHAHAHAA!
(Of course, one could say that in critterform, the bioware bonus does
not apply... In that case, skip the critterform unless you want to
engage in HTH, or rather HTP combat. Still, you've got yourself an
adept with 9D6 initiative. Add the raise reaction power, raise
attribute spells and you've got one fast fragger. Also, he should be
rather high-graded init to mask all that Christmas lights, err..
spell locks. :P Or, while we're at it, give the initiate physad a
beta or delta-grade wired 3 instead of the bioware - if you allow
spell and cyberware stacking. Which is not appilcable in any sane
campaign...).
Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
I'm trying to find myself. Anyone seen me lately?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 14:07:21 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Skye Comstock <bilbo@****.NWLINK.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970719112456.00b88900@****.interware.it>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Skye (yes... parents approval pending)
No Money, No Go. I'd drive my '7 there, but it'd take forever
and I'd have to steal gas... ;)
-Skye
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 00:59:31 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkin man :P
On Sun, 20 Jul 1997 06:10:44 +0000 "Mike (Leszek Karlik)"
<trrkt@******.com> writes:
>Hmmm...
>
>I've been reading through the Paranoid Animals of NA, and saw the
>Speed Samurai archetype...
>
>What a wussie... :P
<snip>
>(I think I should be shot, to miminalize the suffering of my
>immediate entourage. Heh. :P )
I agree. Unfortunately, I don't have any firearms (of the lead
slug-throwing variety) so you'll have to make do with...THIS!
<sounds of whirring and clicking as portable fully-automatic carp
launcher is readied and aimed>
Safeties off <click>
FIRE!!!
THWAPTHWAPTHWAPTHWAPTHWAPTHWAPTHWAPTHWAP!
@#$%&! Give me a moment (one bad thing about carp launchers - you can't
fit many carp in a clip:)
:)
>PS: Oh, yeah, the physical mage could cast spells in critterform.
>Talk about a spellvindicator... :>
Hmm...I think I may have a carp grenade around here somewhere...
:)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 01:58:37 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:06 PM 7/19/97 +0100, Spike wrote these timeless words:
>|
>|It's been a while from when I read some posts about GenCon. I definitely
>|will be there on 7th, who else?
>|
>|GRANITE, you still mantain this list?
>|--------------------------------------------------------
>|Nice people going to GenCon:
>
>ACK!
>
>Does <sob>
>Does this mean, I'll be all alone??? <sob>
>
><SOB>
>
Nope...
Tinner will be around, that sad sack... Every year we make plans to do
Gen Con. and every year it falls thru. Well, we're finally doing it, and
he can';t go...
Well... At least he'll be around to Keep you company Spikey...;]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 01:58:41 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:45 AM 7/18/97 -0800, Skye Comstock wrote these timeless words:
>>I hate you all!
>>
>>I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
>>
>>Argh!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>:]
>
>Hey, I think it was my idea, too. :] Did you read the posts, Bull? Bad!
>Bad Bad Bull! I'll send the armies of Free Spirit Woosps after you
>stupid children!
>
>-Skye, "Lets turn him into a purple Wendigo." :P
>
So it was YOUR idea, eh Skye? BAD skye... Bad Bad bad!!!!!
And no, I didn;t peek...:]
We did a little RP the other night, and I that's when the "change" started...
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 02:36:00 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:27 PM 7/19/97 EDT, John E Pederson wrote these timeless words:
>On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 01:49:32 -0400 Bull <chaos@*****.COM> writes:
>>I hate you all!
>>
>>I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
>>
>>Argh!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>:]
>
>Sorry, but I couldn't help but laugh:) It's a bad habit of mine. In any
>case, Bull, look on the bright side: you're still alive! (Okay, if you
>want to nit-pick, I guess you're undead:) And you can start taking Magic
>lessons now:) And you can get recipes from the Mantids:):):) And there
>are worse things, at least the wendigos are sentient (something that
>can't be said about all vamps:) Of course, there's the small matter of a
>there being a bounty on your head...
>
Well... I'm certainly not happy about it...;]
>Question: if you're turning into a Wendigo, will your smiley and .sig
>change to reflect it:)
>
Not yet... i haven't actually turned INTO one yet... And hopefully I
won;t. As it is, it's REALLY putting a crimp in my marriage...
And why should the smiley change? Wendigo's have tusks...:]
Bull-who-REALLY-doesn't-want-to-eat-his-wife-and-kids
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 02:36:06 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkins - (Slight Rant)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:27 PM 7/19/97 +0000, Khayman wrote these timeless words:
>Just a question for you guys: 300-400 KP !?! How many KP do award in
>each game? how many games have you played?
>
Our games (both the games Tinner runs and mine) tend to net anywhere from 2
Karma to 10, with some reaching as high as 15 to 18. Of course, this isn;t
always for a one night game either.
A short one or two hour RP session with little combat will usually garner 2
Karma per player.
A normal one night run, with moderate threat level to the players, and a
decent amount of RP will net between 4 and 7 karma.
If a run last several nights, and involves a LOT of RP, and usually a High
threat level to the players, tehy can get anywhere up to around 10 Karma.
this is the most I've given out for one set of adventures (and it was a
four game session adventure).
With Tinner, we've gotten a little more. I think 18 was the highest paying
run we've had so far. this was a several night game that involved HEAVY
threat, a LOT of RP, and something along the lines of Saving The World
(tm). ((See the Cuthulhu run that I posted a few days ago fordetails on
this type of run)).
As for how many sessions we've played? Probably somewhere between 150-200
with these characters (the 400 karma one, in my case:)).
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 02:36:09 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Totems
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:31 AM 7/20/97 +1000, Chris Maxfield wrote these timeless words:
The one explanation that I cannot except is that
>they are Powers That Have Existed Since Before The Dawn Of Time. They damn
>well don't exist now in 1997 and so a good explanation is needed for where
>they came from by 2058.
>
While I agree that Totems are not PthESBtDoT, they are definately older
than you think...
What do you think Native American indians worshipped back a couple hundred
years ago (and even today), if not the memory of the totems from the last
age of magic?
There are no totems and magic Now, granted, though most of the native
american totems Do exist now. I think of them as "Sleeping", similar to
what it is theorized the Dragon's did. After all, with no mana, they're
powerless, as are their followers...
Granted, this doesn;t explain some of the Modern Totems, or the City totems...
I think this is a really wierd area, the thing with the totems...
Since I'm typing this already, I might as well formulate my own theories on
the subject. GM's have to do that sort of thing ya know...:]
BULL'S TOTEM THEORY:
((Warning: After thinking this through a bit, it starts to sound vaguely
like AD&D Gods, as well as "God's from hundreds of other Fantasy settings.
Deal with it. AD&D and SR have a lot in common, despite the vehement
dennials of most players.))
It's simple.
1. There are an infinate number of "greater Spirits" that live on the
metaplanes.
2. These spirits have a lot of power, but without "worshippers"
or"followers" of some kind, they cannot reach the "Plane of Man"
(What the
hell is our plane of existance called in SR?).
3. When a large enough group of people start to believe in something (Or
even a single person who believes strongly enough), like the Urban Gator
Totem, then one of the Greater Spirits can latch on and form itself around
this belief. The spirits grants power, but at the same time is shaped and
formed (and confined) by this belief. Thus, while some of the Totems
(suchs as the Native American Totems) have been around for thousand's of
years, gator, Leviathan, and Elvis has only been around sicne the Awakening.
4. Once "attuned" to their totem, whether by consious choice or by being
"chosen" by their totem, their opower is then linked with it. Thus, the
benifits and restrictions of a totem that must be followed, and the loss of
power should the Shaman turn away from his totem.
5. There may be different forms of the same Totem, as different "aspects"
of a Totem are called upon by different Shamans, thus allowing a Differnt
Greater Spirit to attach itself to that focus.
6. Insect Totems are NOT from this realm. rather, they are in essence
Minor Horrors, or something similar.
Ok, that's all I can think of now... Granted, it doesn;t all make perfect
sense, and as I mentioned before, smacks of AD&D or other fantasy concpts
(If any of you have read some of the recent Raymond Feist novels, I'm
actually basing the idea on the concept of how their gods work. Don;t ask
me to explain, though. I can;t. :] )
And, this will probably be the working theory behind my Totems and Shamans
in my game. I LIKE the idea of a Shaman being controlled and drawning
strength and power from a greater being. It makes the shaman more unique,
and gives them so many more Roleplaying oppurtunities...;]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 02:36:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:08 PM 7/19/97 +0100, Spike wrote these timeless words:
>|Orks... Well... SR is probably the only game I know of where Orks are a
>|normal, viable race. AD&D came close with it's half orcs, but... That's
>|still not the same... And Orcs in Tolkien were pretty much the same as in
>|AD&D: Evil green beasties... They were also called Goblins in Tolkiens
>|books...
>
>Not the only one....
>
>Paladium had Orcs as player characters, along with Hobgoblins, goblins,
>changelings and Wolfen. 10 years ago.....
>
I'm not TOO familiar with Palladium's Fantasy RPG. but even in that,
despite allowing Orc Characters, weren't the Orc's still the "bad guy"? By
normal, viable race, I meant a race that WASN'T considered evil and
perfectly alright to slaughter at will...:]
>And quite a few LRP systems allow almost any race (that isn't unbalancing).
>
True, but once again... How many are Orc's simply "another race", rather
than being an Evil Race?
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 17:59:06 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Glenn Munro <eazy@*****.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Totems
In-Reply-To: <tcppop3.379731@***.hydra.com.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Bull spoke thusly:
>[snip: BULL'S TOTEM THEORY:]
>
>Ok, that's all I can think of now... Granted, it doesn;t all make perfect
>sense, and as I mentioned before, smacks of AD&D or other fantasy concpts
>(If any of you have read some of the recent Raymond Feist novels, I'm
>actually basing the idea on the concept of how their gods work. Don;t ask
>me to explain, though. I can;t. :] )
>
Hey Bull, have u read the swords/lost swords stuff by Saberhagen? People
came first and created gods. The Gods were real and believed they created
Humans. The forger god made some magic swords. Eventually poeple stopped
believing in gods but the magic swords remained.
>And, this will probably be the working theory behind my Totems and Shamans
>in my game. I LIKE the idea of a Shaman being controlled and drawning
>strength and power from a greater being. It makes the shaman more unique,
>and gives them so many more Roleplaying oppurtunities...;]
>
Yeah. I like the totem and shaman interacting...the shaman being guided by
a higher power...or asking for help :)
QuickFix
The man who made it did not want it;
The man who bought it did not use it;
The man who used it did not know it.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 01:15:51 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Totems
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 19 Jul 1997 23:36:09 PDT."
<3.0.16.19970720023702.31afdee6@*****.com>
>Ok, that's all I can think of now... Granted, it doesn;t all make perfect
>sense, and as I mentioned before, smacks of AD&D or other fantasy concpts
>(If any of you have read some of the recent Raymond Feist novels, I'm
>actually basing the idea on the concept of how their gods work. Don;t ask
>me to explain, though. I can;t. :] )
Actually, it sounds moslty like the Discworld model to me.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:10:13 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkin man :P
In-Reply-To: <199707200809.BAA03308@****.parc.xerox.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hmmm...
> >I've been reading through the Paranoid Animals of NA, and saw the
> >Speed Samurai archetype...
>
> <snip munchy, rule-jumping-up-and-down-on char. concept>
>
> Gurth, could you post the latest version of your speed elf?
a) Did this go to the list, or only to me?
b) Damn, I should have known there's a better, faster model on the
market... :P
Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
Since using your shampoo, my hair has come alive. Signed: Medusa.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:56:12 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Zephalin? [OT]
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970719092658.2e27ae1c@***alex1.linknet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
John Dukes said on 9:30/19 Jul 97...
> (I have no idea how to spell zephalin :)
"Zephalin" :)
However, if you're referring to an airship with a rigid metal framework,
it's "zeppelin," after the German count von Zeppelin who invented them
somewhere around the last turn of the century. (To the best of my
knowledge, a "zephalin" doesn't exist... :)
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:56:13 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: White phosphorus (Re: [SR3] Things that always annoyed you in SR
In-Reply-To: <ufracv6k0g.fsf@*******.hanse.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Shadowrun ML demon shadowrn-m said on 17:15/19 Jul 97...
> "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK> writes:
> > It's nasty, but far from being utterly and totally fatal. WP casualties
> > survive quite nicely today.
>
> Uhm - I find this pretty hard to believe, I have to admit. As far as I
> know having about 40% of your skin burned to third degree is already
> lethal
80%, I thought it was. At any rate I'd rather not find out :)
> and even hot water can cause third degree burns without any problems. So
> something that is sticky and burns a few hundred degrees (what IS the
> exact temperature, btw.)
Not sure. Thermite burns at about 2000 degrees, but WP is a lot cooler
IIRC.
> is causing third degree burns within fractions of a second... someone
> surviving being splashed with that stuff (without any special equipment,
> of course). Maybe if you only got a few drops... but whatever has been
> hit got a third degree burn, so if more than 40% of the body has been
> hit you are dead.
Maybe the way to find out who is right is to do some research into RL WP
wounds. My guess (based partly on what I read in Phoenix Command Special
Weapon supplement, and partly on my own reasoning) is that people close to
the blast get covered in lots of small particles that don't burn all that
long (small particle = large surface:volume ratio = short burn time), plus
a reasonably large number or bigger particles similar to normal grenade
fragments. Those further away only get to deal with the larger particles,
because they can travel further than the small, light ones.
From that, it looks to me like people close to the blast will get large
amounts of burns which will likely kill even with treatment, while those
further away get only a few burns that will only be life-threatening if
not treated soon.
SR actually simulates this: closeby you get to deal with a 14M explosion,
and with 7 dice behind it (per the Companion's optional rule) that isn't
very healthy. Anyone who survives that -- which are those targets away
from the center of the blast -- take 10L each turn for 15 turns, reduced
by impact armor and resisted _only_ with Body. Not many people can do
that, but if they get treatment soon it'll only give a few Light wounds.
> Yeah - but there is hardly anything you can do once a certain amount
> of skin has been burned... at least not nowadays. I could imagine,
> though, that in the future you'd have tanks with some special liquid
> that could take over the functions of the skin until the body had a
> chance to regenerate.
Bacta tanks :)
> Uhm. So what happens to the electronics and the rubber & plastic parts
> of the engine when they get exposed to flames that burn at several
> hundret degrees... my experience is that plastic, rubber and
> electronics don't really like this.
It'd have to be hit by burning particles, and the particles would have to
stick onto the wiring long enough to melt the plastic off large sections
of the wires. If it's just a glance then there'd probably be some melting
on some individual wires, but nothing serious unless they happen to touch
each other.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:56:12 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Orks & goblins
In-Reply-To: <33CF71FE.97A178DF@*********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Caun Haskins said on 7:39/18 Jul 97...
> Wow, wait a minuit, are you telling me that at one time orks and goblins
> were thought of as the same thing!! I always thought of them as totaly
> diferent races, they are adn will always be in my head totaly different.
> (I can't see the goblins in anybody's books the same as any oof my SR
> characters, That would just spoil my day!)
If you read The Hobbit, you'll find that the creatures called "orcs" in
other books are called "goblins" there. The intro in my copy states that
"/Orc/ is not an English word. It occurs in one or two places but is
usually translated /goblin/ (or /hobgoblin/ for the larger kinds). /Orc/
is the hobbits' form of the name given at that time to these creatures".
In Shadowrun, however, "ork" refers to Homo sapiens robustus, one of the
four major human subspecies that appeared after the Awkening; "goblin,"
however, is normally used to refer to Homo bestius, which are dwarfs
infected with the Human-Metahuman Vampiric Virus, but still (according to
the scientific name) human.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:28:22 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In-Reply-To: <4310.199707192106@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Spike said on 22:06/19 Jul 97...
> |Nice people going to GenCon:
>
> ACK!
>
> Does <sob>
> Does this mean, I'll be all alone??? <sob>
>
> <SOB>
It looks like only us non-Americans will be left... You won't be alone,
as a matter of fact it looks like we'll be rid of many of those obnoxious
Americans for a while ;)
BTW, since this started as a GenCon thing, who will be going to the
European version?
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 04:52:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Deosyne <deosyne@*********.NET>
Organization: The War Machine
Subject: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hey kids, how's life? Had to do a brief stint in rehab for a bitty
relapse of the Crystal Entity, but I'm back. Ditched the WebTV unit and
finally assembled my 'puter, so g'head and bitch if the column width is
off. :) I'll fix it. BTW Gurth: about time to change the block in yer
sig; the geeks have probably found a way passed it. :) So what new toys
have the lovely folks at FASA dropped out in the passed couple months;
<hopeful>RBB2???</hopeful> One can dream.
Deosyne (Shawn Baumgartner)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:28:23 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Munchkin man :P
In-Reply-To: <199707200405.GAA13898@****.polbox.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Mike (Leszek Karlik) said on 6:10/20 Jul 97...
> I've been reading through the Paranoid Animals of NA, and saw the
> Speed Samurai archetype...
>
> What a wussie... :P
Fastest character you can make (AFAIK) with the standard character
generation rules (with the More Metahumans optional rule and without using
Cybertechnology, that is; with CT he gets up to 21+4D6).
> Now, think about that: a physical adept (or, better yet, physical
> mage) with at least 1st grade initation (so he can have the +2D6
> bioware and the max. adept initiative increase (+3D6) for IIRC 5
> magic points...). Now, that gives him a 6D6 initiative, but that's
> not all... Now, add an increase reflexes +3D6 spell, for a total of
> 9D6 initiative. And now Critterform him into a tiger or a panther,
> for an additional 2D6 to initiative. Voila, a whopping 11D6
> initiative, for an average roll of 33, whitout counting the reaction.
> Make the critterform force 6, cast with 6 magic pool and 12 successes
> (Karma and Team Karma), that adds +6 to all physical attributes of
> the tiger, increasing the reaction by 3 (at least).
There are several problems with the character you're talking about. First
and foremost, he/she CANNOT be made as a starting character, unless for
some reason your GM allows you to use Force Points for initiations (which
I definitely don't).
Second, and this uses a ruling by Tom Dowd that you probably aren't aware
of and which some people might heavily dispute (MC23, keep quiet, OK? :)
namely that only the highest initiative boost applies. That means your
character would have only +3D6, not +11D6.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:28:23 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Munchkin man :P
In-Reply-To: <199707200805.KAA28830@****.polbox.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Mike (Leszek Karlik) said on 10:10/20 Jul 97...
> > Gurth, could you post the latest version of your speed elf?
>
> a) Did this go to the list, or only to me?
Probably only to you, since you have (had?) a reply-to address set in your
mailer, which the list doesn't override, unfortunately.
> b) Damn, I should have known there's a better, faster model on the
> market... :P
The original Speed Sam was designed about a year before Cybertechnology
came out; a few months ago I upgraded him. If you want to I'll send you a
copy privately, since most subscribers to the list will have seen him
before.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:28:23 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Bows and crossbows
In-Reply-To: <199707200008.CAA01523@****.polbox.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Mike (Leszek Karlik) said on 2:13/20 Jul 97...
> So, I came up with this simple solution: make the readying of a bow
> a free action (though I think this would require easy acces to
> arrows, like stuck in the ground before you, or in a quiver on your
> hip). This way, you get 3 shots from a bow each 2 combat phases,
> whereas you get 2 shots from a crossbow each 2 combat rounds.
Erm... What exactly do you mean by "readying" a bow? Putting an arrow on
the bow? Drawing the string back so you can shoot the weapon? That'd mean
you can shoot the bow once per Combat Phase: you have to spend a Free
Action to "ready" it, and then a Simple Action to shoot, if I read you
correctly. *waits for Dvixen to point out the proper archery terms :) *
> This makes bow slower then SA weapons (figures), faster then SS
> weapons (kinda figures, too) and faster then crossbows (which are
> still too fast... Maybe make readying a crossbow a complex action,
> and increase the power slightly to reflect the power of your average
> x-bow).
I have a feeling I'm not quite on the same wavelength as you are, though,
since it looks to me like you still have the same ROF as a crossbow.
> Oh, yeah, and arrows and bolts are resisted by Impact armor (I hope
> this written somewhere...)
Yes, that's in the section about body armor (SRII page 242).
> I also hope this is not one of the "once a week" topics on this
> list... (It was not in the FAQ, anyway)...
Not exactly, it may have been brought up before (there's a big chance of
that) but definitely not on any regular basis, unlike several other
topics.
> Oh, yeah, the newbie intro (I hate that part):
Welcome to the list :)
> My main complaint is that I have only one A category... This creation
> system is Dumb.
Use the optional "add to 10" system from the Companion, then. That way you
can get two A priorities plus three E's :)
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 19:38:40 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Glenn Munro <eazy@*****.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
In-Reply-To: <tcppop3.379765@***.hydra.com.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Deosyne wrote:
>Hey kids, how's life? Had to do a brief stint in rehab for a bitty
>relapse of the Crystal Entity, but I'm back. Ditched the WebTV unit and
>finally assembled my 'puter, so g'head and bitch if the column width is
>off. :) I'll fix it. BTW Gurth: about time to change the block in yer
>sig; the geeks have probably found a way passed it. :) So what new toys
>have the lovely folks at FASA dropped out in the passed couple months;
><hopeful>RBB2???</hopeful> One can dream.
>
hope no longer! RBB2 is due to be released in sept IIRC :)
Woohoo!
Quickfix
The man who made it did not want it;
The man who bought it did not use it;
The man who used it did not know it.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 05:23:24 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Deosyne <deosyne@*********.NET>
Organization: The War Machine
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Glenn Munro wrote:
>
> Deosyne wrote:
<snippity me posting>
> hope no longer! RBB2 is due to be released in sept IIRC :)
> Woohoo!
>
> Quickfix
IIRC RBB2 has been scheduled for release several times. But as it is
already mid-July, I daresay FASA may stick to this one. :) The Westwind
2057... oohhhh... :)
Deosyne
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 06:00:41 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
On Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:28:22 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>It looks like only us non-Americans will be left... You won't be alone,
>as a matter of fact it looks like we'll be rid of many of those
obnoxious
>Americans for a while ;)
Hey! We aren't ALL going....
~Tim (who has never been to, nor will probably ever be at GenCon.)
[Of course I'm going on vacation for a week starting in.. Oh...7 hours,
then home for 2 weeks, then off to Canada for nearly 2 more weeks... then
back to school..]
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 04:48:57 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Target:UCAS
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
WooHoo! :)
Target:UCAS finally got here, and I picked it up, along with Stranger Souls
and the Merideth Brooks CD. I haven't finished reading it entirely, but
I've skimmed it for the quotes, and it seems like a pretty good book.
I haven't gotten a chance to even open Stranger Souls yet, but I think I'll
do that now.. And the Merideth Brooks CD is not bad, but I can see it
getting repetitive quickly.
I'M EVEN ON THE SAME PAGE AS FASTJACK! :):):):):):):):) ^ :)
-Adam
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
GC3.1 GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
-
"Whoever said never trust a dragon obviously never met a politician."
-- Me, in 'Target: UCAS'
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 05:52:04 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Willpower & the Common Mage (was Re: [SR3] Combat Spells)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="------------CCA48015E6BEDDBF7E60F6C6"
--------------CCA48015E6BEDDBF7E60F6C6
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Totems choose their shaman for their own reasons, and I'd see Willpower as
> awfully low on that priority list. Personality would be foremost by far.
> Then perhaps destiny. Why bother taking some guy who happens to be
> strong-willed if he doesn't have a personality anywhere near that of the
> Totem? The guy'd never be able to use his magic anyway. If totems chose
> their shaman by willpower, every shaman would be an albino dwarf and no
> totem would ever think to pick a troll.
>
TopCat ^
Totems are part of the shaman, inseprable, the totem's personality IS
the shamans personality. (personalitys are somtimes surpresed though)
Caun :}
--------------CCA48015E6BEDDBF7E60F6C6
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<PRE>Totems choose their shaman for their own reasons, and I'd see Willpower as
awfully low on that priority list. Personality would be foremost by far.
Then perhaps destiny. Why bother taking some guy who happens to be
strong-willed if he doesn't have a personality anywhere near that of the
Totem? The guy'd never be able to use his magic anyway. If totems
chose
their shaman by willpower, every shaman would be an albino dwarf and no
totem would ever think to pick a troll.</PRE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
TopCat ^
<P>Totems are part of the shaman, inseprable, the totem's personality IS
the shamans personality. (personalitys are somtimes surpresed though)
<P>Caun :}</HTML>
--------------CCA48015E6BEDDBF7E60F6C6--
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 05:02:12 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: [Admin] HTML Posting
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Caun Haskins, the copy of Netscape mail you're posting with is sending
stuff as HTML, please try to correct that problem. I think I saw one other
HTML post tonight, but it may have been on another list..
Anyways, not all email programs read HTML, and it takes extra time to load
into the ones that do, and its not nessesary, so, no HTML please :)
-Adam
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
GC3.1 GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
-
"Whoever said never trust a dragon obviously never met a politician."
-- Me, in 'Target: UCAS'
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 12:11:17 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Totems
In-Reply-To: <199707200815.BAA03330@****.parc.xerox.com> from "Benjamin"
at
Jul 20, 97 01:15:51 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|>Ok, that's all I can think of now... Granted, it doesn;t all make perfect
|>sense, and as I mentioned before, smacks of AD&D or other fantasy concpts
|>(If any of you have read some of the recent Raymond Feist novels, I'm
|>actually basing the idea on the concept of how their gods work. Don;t ask
|>me to explain, though. I can;t. :] )
|
|Actually, it sounds moslty like the Discworld model to me.
|
That's what I was thinking too....
BULL! If you haven't already, READ SMALL GODS!
You won't regret it.... :)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 12:14:50 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
In-Reply-To: <33C745DC.6D6BFAEC@*********.net> from "Deosyne" at Jul 12,
97 04:52:45 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|Hey kids, how's life? Had to do a brief stint in rehab for a bitty
|relapse of the Crystal Entity, but I'm back. Ditched the WebTV unit and
|finally assembled my 'puter, so g'head and bitch if the column width is
|off. :) I'll fix it. BTW Gurth: about time to change the block in yer
|sig; the geeks have probably found a way passed it. :) So what new toys
|have the lovely folks at FASA dropped out in the passed couple months;
|<hopeful>RBB2???</hopeful> One can dream.
How does Shadowrun 3rd Edition grab you?
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 12:18:30 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [Admin] HTML Posting
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970720050212.006db114@****.lis.ab.ca> from "Adam
J"
at Jul 20, 97 05:02:12 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|Caun Haskins, the copy of Netscape mail you're posting with is sending
|stuff as HTML, please try to correct that problem.
Good grief! And Ididn't spot it....
It looks like ELM might be learning to ignore that rubbish.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 05:31:55 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: [Admin] HTML Posting
In-Reply-To: <4780.199707201118@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:18 7/20/97 +0100, you wrote:
>|
>|Caun Haskins, the copy of Netscape mail you're posting with is sending
>|stuff as HTML, please try to correct that problem.
>
>Good grief! And Ididn't spot it....
>It looks like ELM might be learning to ignore that rubbish.....
I hope its being upgraded, and not just mutating on its own :)
I suppose that within the year, all mailers will be able to read and write
rtf formatted stuff.. :(
-Aj
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
GC3.1 GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
-
"Whoever said never trust a dragon obviously never met a politician."
-- Me, in 'Target: UCAS'
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 06:31:11 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: [Admin] HTML Posting
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Thanks for the notice, I didn't notice, my brother must have rest the
defaults! isn't family wonderful! Is this better?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 05:40:03 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: [Admin] HTML Posting
In-Reply-To: <33D0B37F.C1F848E9@*********.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:31 7/19/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Thanks for the notice, I didn't notice, my brother must have rest the
>defaults! isn't family wonderful!
NO <g>
>Is this better?
Yup, thanks :)
-Aj
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
GC3.1 GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
-
"Whoever said never trust a dragon obviously never met a politician."
-- Me, in 'Target: UCAS'
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 12:42:17 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [Admin] HTML Posting
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970720053155.006e38ac@****.lis.ab.ca> from "Adam
J"
at Jul 20, 97 05:31:55 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|I hope its being upgraded, and not just mutating on its own :)
|I suppose that within the year, all mailers will be able to read and write
|rtf formatted stuff.. :(
ELM is a pure, simple little mailer....
It CAN read mime, sometimes, when it feels like it.
I doubt anyone will put RTF treatment into it though, because it only links
in with text (ASCII ONLY) editors....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 06:56:12 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: [Admin] HTML Posting
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> isn't family wonderful!
>
> NO
>
Get a dictionary, look up RHETORICAL I believe that is one of the
examples!
It's a Webster standard by now!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 09:09:04 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: SPELL: Totemform
Comments: To: trrkt@******.com
In a message dated 97-07-19 15:09:19 EDT, trrkt@******.com (Mike (Leszek
Karlik)) writes:
>
> Drain: (F/2+1)S
> Target number: 6
> Duration: Sustained (the modifier for sustaining the spell is only +1
> instead of +2)
> Range: Personal only
> Effect: The spell works like the (Critter) Form spell from the
> Grimoire, allowing the caster to morph into one, predetermined animal
> (namely - your Totem animal). It's effects are similar to the
> Shapechange spell (shaman can cast spells in animal form, use
> critter's physical attributes plus one-half the casting successes and
> caster's mental attributes, the clothing and equipment does not
> change with the caster), but the modifier for sustaining the spell is
> only +1 instead of +2. Also, it allows the caster to mask the aura as
> an aura of the totem animal. It works as the initiate masking, but
> with one/half of the initiate's grade (round up).
>
Okay, this is good. I know of a particular shaman who definitely wants this
one. He's a Gargoyle Shaman, and it would simply make his day. The basic of
the spell is cool, and the +1 vs. +2 modifier for a specific category of
animal that is "Totem" oriented is okay I guess. As for the masking, hate to
say it, but the GM('s) in question tricked ya guy. Initiate Masking is
ALWAYS going. Now, what I think you may have been suggesting is that the
spell is incorporated into the shaman's initiated aura.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 09:12:35 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Shapers vs. Vampires (was: Re: Argh!!!) (yeah,
this is probably an old topic)
In a message dated 97-07-19 17:02:58 EDT, barbie@**********.COM writes:
>
> >-Canthros (one nice thing about shapeshifters: they don't get HMHVV,
> >AFAIK:)
>
> I strongly hope the can`t or my GM would surely try this to hurt me
anymore.
>
Hey Barbie, here's a nightmarish thought. Shapeshifter's in SR are more or
less like were's in other game systems, except for the Infection part.
Vampires in SR, at least when the game first started out, weren't however.
It's a disease, a physical one, that enacted the change. Now a shaper's
healing factor's are great against the physical wounds from attacks and the
like, but not those inflicted by disease and such. I would say be very glad
indeed.
-Keith (hey the stories of a the Vampire becoming a Wolf had to start
somewhere)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 09:16:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: SPELL: Totemform
Comments: To: trrkt@******.com
In a message dated 97-07-19 18:46:06 EDT, trrkt@******.com (Mike (Leszek
Karlik)) writes:
>
> Yes, but masking allows only to appear as a mundane human. An animal
> with a human aura in astral space is a pretty obvious give-away,
> isn't it? Now, think of the possibilities for the Rat shaman (you can
> spell-cast in the animal form, after all...).
>
>
Oops Mike, I get your point now. I still think for the drain you had to
keep, that the masking of the "animal/totem" form should be equal to the
initiates' own. I did see an advantage in the spell could easily exceed the
caster's own initiation level.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 09:17:15 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In a message dated 97-07-19 18:54:27 EDT, u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK (Spike)
writes:
> |--------------------------------------------------------
> |Nice people going to GenCon:
>
> ACK!
>
> Does <sob>
> Does this mean, I'll be all alone??? <sob>
>
>
Why no Spike, it mean's you'll be stuck with me...
-Keith
(EWG)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 14:51:57 -0700
Reply-To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: Orks & goblins
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> In Shadowrun, however, "ork" refers to Homo sapiens robustus, one of the
> four major human subspecies that appeared after the Awkening; "goblin,"
> however, is normally used to refer to Homo bestius, which are dwarfs
> infected with the Human-Metahuman Vampiric Virus, but still (according to
> the scientific name) human.
<gripe>
That's kind of funny. Vampires, Wendigos (hi Bull) and Banshees are
given completely different taxonomies, and the Dzoo-Noo-Qua of PANA are
homo saevitias. All are infected with the same virus, and none really
have the benefit of social acceptance.
But saying that they're another species instead of homo sapiens is a
little like calling AIDS victims homo HIVus... (and yes, I understand
the deep social commentary being made.)
-Matt
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:13:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In a message dated 97-07-20 02:09:39 EDT, chaos@*****.COM (Bull) writes:
>
> Tinner will be around, that sad sack... Every year we make plans to do
> Gen Con. and every year it falls thru. Well, we're finally doing it, and
> he can';t go...
>
> Well... At least he'll be around to Keep you company Spikey...;]
>
> Bull
>
Oh god, now Tinner...the things we could do to this list....
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:14:35 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
In a message dated 97-07-20 02:41:11 EDT, chaos@*****.COM (Bull) writes:
> >
> Not yet... i haven't actually turned INTO one yet... And hopefully I
> won;t. As it is, it's REALLY putting a crimp in my marriage...
Hey, maybe that Salonist would be a good idea after all. I mean, he can give
you lessons on how to part your new hair as it comes in all...
> And why should the smiley change? Wendigo's have tusks...:]
Yeah, really big tusks, big mean nasty teeth (down rabbit!!!)
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 22:44:26 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Totems
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970720023702.31afdee6@*****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 02:36 20/07/97 -0400, Bull wrote:
>What do you think Native American indians worshipped back a couple hundred
>years ago (and even today), if not the memory of the totems from the last
>age of magic?
Or maybe a tribal belief system with a strong basis in wisdom but with no
more basis in reality than the tooth fairy. :-) Ah - can I have a tooth
fairy shaman? Now what would my totem bonuses be?
<<snip>>
>3. When a large enough group of people start to believe in something (Or
>even a single person who believes strongly enough), like the Urban Gator
>Totem, then one of the Greater Spirits can latch on and form itself around
>this belief. The spirits grants power, but at the same time is shaped and
>formed (and confined) by this belief. Thus, while some of the Totems
>(suchs as the Native American Totems) have been around for thousand's of
>years, gator, Leviathan, and Elvis has only been around sicne the Awakening.
<<snip>>
>Ok, that's all I can think of now... Granted, it doesn;t all make perfect
>sense, and as I mentioned before, smacks of AD&D or other fantasy concpts
>(If any of you have read some of the recent Raymond Feist novels, I'm
>actually basing the idea on the concept of how their gods work. Don;t ask
>me to explain, though. I can;t. :] )
Yep. I've read this explanation for the origin of gods in both Raymond
Feist's Rift War books and in Terry Pratchett's 'Small Gods'.
My preference for totems, however, is that they only exist in and are
created in an age of magic. They are beings created in the metaplanes
through the mysteries of magic from the essence (spirit?) of belief and as
a focus of belief. While the age of magic lasts they exist and when the age
of magic dies so too do the totems truly die. As they are created by
belief, this belief defines their nature and powers, and also limits their
actions. They are nevertheless objectively independent beings with their
own, possibly unknowable, agenda.
For this reason, the way I prefer to view totemic 'choosing' is as more of
a resonance between the totem and a magically active person with a similar
nature. If the person is sensitive enough to be aware of this resonance and
acknowledges the link then they gain a spirit guide and a totem. I know -
very hermetic. :-)
I still haven't decided, though, whether or not totems are fully sentient
or are non-self aware metaplanar constructs of shamanic belief. ;->
Chris
_______________________________________________________________
Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:20:25 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In a message dated 97-07-20 00:59:22 EDT, bilbo@****.NWLINK.COM (Skye
Comstock) writes:
>
> No Money, No Go. I'd drive my '7 there, but it'd take forever
> and I'd have to steal gas... ;)
>
> -Skye
>
>
Hey Spike, our party's growing yet...
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 15:17:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
In-Reply-To: <33CF71FE.97A178DF@*********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <33CF71FE.97A178DF@*********.com>, Caun Haskins
<caun@*********.COM> rambled on endlessly about Dark Conspiracy (Was -
Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
>Wow, wait a minuit, are you telling me that at one time orks and goblins
>were thought of as the same thing!! I always thought of them as totaly
>diferent races, they are adn will always be in my head totaly different.
By the Tolkien mythology, which seems a strong influence in the fantasy
genre, orks are a race derived from Elves. They are in fact Sauron's
corruption created from his desire to become like the creator. He
used/uses Elves to create the Orks. Orks, however are more than capable
of breeding, and hence you get variations on the theme.
The Uruk Hai, were to all intents and pruposes the genetic masterpiece
of the Ork race, powerful, tough, intelligent and mean as hell. A true
opponent to the Elven nations.
>(I can't see the goblins in anybody's books the same as any oof my SR
>characters, That would just spoil my day!) Well I gues The Fantasy gener
>is still under construction, where will it go next? and we learn
>somthing new every day on the ShadowRN discusion group!
AD&D took Goblins and turned them into what were effectively
miniaturised Orks. However, they still ranked them into the "Giantish"
sub-class (IIRC)
--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:48:02 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Orks & goblins
Comments: To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
In a message dated 97-07-20 09:38:34 EDT, mbreton@**.netcom.com (Matb)
writes:
>
> But saying that they're another species instead of homo sapiens is a
> little like calling AIDS victims homo HIVus... (and yes, I understand
> the deep social commentary being made.)
>
>
That is good Matt, because those would have been major fighting words. Not
for myself, but those I've known.
On the other topic of Orc, Goblins, etc...has anyone come up with their own
home grown "ork" and "troll" variations that are NOT in the companion?
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 15:13:02 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970718221917.2faf8e5c@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <3.0.16.19970718221917.2faf8e5c@*****.com>, Bull
<chaos@*****.COM> rambled on endlessly about We Don't Need No Stinkin'
Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
>At 03:54 PM 7/18/97 -0700, Caric wrote these timeless words:
>>Avenger wrote:
>
>>> Fascinating, in five years of playing Shadowrun, none of my players have
>>> had characters, even the long term ones, anywhere near this Karma total.
>>> Boy am I going to lynched if they find out. :)
>>
>>Us either...I think I had the highest total ever with somewhere in the
>>neighborhood of 200.
>>
>Well... Consider this...
>
>We played AT LEAST twice a week for a year, and at least once a week the
>second year. Things have been a bit more sparse since then, but I'd have
>to say we've played something like over 100 game sessions in the last 4
>years with these characters. That averages out to 4 Karma a night, which
>sounds right on par...;]
My guys played every weekend, religiously up unitl just before Christmas
last year, Saturday nights were Shadowrun night, in preference to
anything else. At the moment we're playing every second weekend so that
those who have a life, can indulge in it. <scarey people - those who
have a life that is> :)
With the new characters, they've had three sessions now, and haven't
earned one Karma point yet. Hmm... maybe I'm just a stingy git. :) But
I don't feel like awarding Karma after every session, regardless of
whether the players feel they've earned it. Karma gets awarded at the
end of the "scenario/campaign", and it's not usually high, unless
they've had a _really_ tough time of it.
I think the highest Karma a character has had, is 182, and that was a
three year old once a week character.
--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:18:01 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
On Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:28:22 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>Spike said on 22:06/19 Jul 97...
>
>> |Nice people going to GenCon:
>>
>> ACK!
>>
>> Does <sob>
>> Does this mean, I'll be all alone??? <sob>
>>
>> <SOB>
>
>It looks like only us non-Americans will be left... You won't be alone,
>as a matter of fact it looks like we'll be rid of many of those
obnoxious
>Americans for a while ;)
:P~~~ HA! I'm staying ('course, that's cause i have no way of getting to
GenCon even if I had the money or time to do it...)
>BTW, since this started as a GenCon thing, who will be going to the
>European version?
Not me:)
--
-Canthros-the-obnoxious-American-shapeshifter-mage :)
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 16:38:43 -0700
Reply-To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: Orks & goblins
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> > But saying that they're another species instead of homo sapiens is a
> > little like calling AIDS victims homo HIVus... (and yes, I understand
> > the deep social commentary being made.)
> That is good Matt, because those would have been major fighting words. Not
> for myself, but those I've known.
Sorry if the "deep social commentary" sounded a little sarcastic; it was
anything but. I've found that, like metahumans, HMHVV can be used as a
way to talk about real-life issues without (necessarily) provoking
sensibilities.
(rambling personal recollection)
Back in high school, we had a small gaming group, maybe seven or eight
kids, the 'outcasts' of our very Jesuit high school. (We all happened
to be honor students, too. Funny, innit?) And one of the first things
that we noticed about SR was that vampires and wendigos /weren't/ orks
and humans, despite being called a "human subspecies" in the flavor
text. (Why were Wengigos the first thing we noticed? Color plates, my
friend.) Quite a few of us had oddball theories on it, but I can
remember the slightly shocked look on my good friend John's face.
John was the only gay person that I knew of in the school, and as far as
I knew, I was the only straight guy he had ever told. We were talking
later - we almost never talked about gaming outside of sessions - and he
told me that his lover (college guy, junior, forget his name) had been
diagnosed with AIDS. This was 1989, and while a few social institutions
were beginning to offer assistance, by and large the public opinion
seemed to be that if you got AIDS, you would die and *no one cared*. To
see something so extraordinarily similar made Shadowrun a *very* dark
future, for him.
Whew. Been a while since I went that deep into the memory vault. I'll
stop before I get carried away.
(/rambling personal recollection)
It is difficult to talk about some things, and, unfortunately (no slur
meant against you by-and-large very cool listmembers) I've often found
that a lot of gamers fall easily for some stereotypes... too much "us
v. them", I guess. Having seen ghouls and vampires used as pure evil in
some campaigns, I wanted to expose another possible side to the issue.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 17:29:31 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Shapers vs. Vampires (was: Re: Argh!!!) (yeah,
this is probabl
In-Reply-To: <970720091233_42267078@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 20-Jul-97 wrote J. Keith Henry:
>>
>Hey Barbie, here's a nightmarish thought. Shapeshifter's in SR are more or
>less like were's in other game systems, except for the Infection part.
> Vampires in SR, at least when the game first started out, weren't however.
> It's a disease, a physical one, that enacted the change. Now a shaper's
>healing factor's are great against the physical wounds from attacks and the
>like, but not those inflicted by disease and such. I would say be very glad
>indeed.
Oh shit. . . . . . .
glad none of the others of my group are on the list yet . . . so I feel a
little
bit save for know.
This would ruin my character utterly my since I`m awaiting a litter of five
and my sone-to-be husband is very creased about it.
He`s a elf after all. Remember the offsping question from me ???
Become a vampire too would definetly kick the character out of the game
without killing her. . . she would be way to powerfull too. . .
--
Barbie, the-panther-shapeshifter-phoenix-shaman
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 17:55:57 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Munchkin man
In-Reply-To: <199707200405.GAA13898@****.polbox.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 20-Jul-97 wrote Mike (Leszek Karlik):
MUNCHKIN ALARM TAKE COVER
>I've been reading through the Paranoid Animals of NA, and saw the
>Speed Samurai archetype...
Speed Samurai in the PnAoNA ??
How did you do that ??
>Now, think about that: a physical adept (or, better yet, physical
>mage) with at least 1st grade initation (so he can have the +2D6
>bioware and the max. adept initiative increase (+3D6) for IIRC 5
>magic points...). Now, that gives him a 6D6 initiative, but that's
>not all... Now, add an increase reflexes +3D6 spell, for a total of
>9D6 initiative. And now Critterform him into a tiger or a panther,
>for an additional 2D6 to initiative. Voila, a whopping 11D6
>initiative, for an average roll of 33, whitout counting the reaction.
>Make the critterform force 6, cast with 6 magic pool and 12 successes
>(Karma and Team Karma), that adds +6 to all physical attributes of
>the tiger, increasing the reaction by 3 (at least).
Take a shapshifter leopard or tiger physical shaman instead.
8d6 in humanform or 10 d6 in animal form.
If the GM allows you can even add a synaptic 2
going for 10d6/12d6
the only problen is the implantation of the BW and you should at least be an
initiate 2 to counter the magic loss..
>(I think I should be shot, to miminalize the suffering of my
>immediate entourage. Heh. :P )
Fire at will guys!!!!
>(Of course, one could say that in critterform, the bioware bonus does
>not apply... In that case, skip the critterform unless you want to
>engage in HTH, or rather HTP combat. Still, you've got yourself an
>adept with 9D6 initiative. Add the raise reaction power, raise
>attribute spells and you've got one fast fragger. Also, he should be
>rather high-graded init to mask all that Christmas lights, err..
>spell locks. :P Or, while we're at it, give the initiate physad a
>beta or delta-grade wired 3 instead of the bioware - if you allow
>spell and cyberware stacking. Which is not appilcable in any sane
>campaign...).
With the critterform spell you will loss the BW/CW effects.
And theres something beter to do than initiate to counter the magic loss
from implants with your karma. belive me I know.
BTW I go with 30 + 6d6 and a +15 from taccomp and since we have
a battleTAC link which adds another 10-20 (operator dependant).
i can savely say I`m real fast and the others are only 20 points behind me
:-)))
MUNCHKIN ALARM OVER ALL IS SAFE AGAIN
please keep your replay to field clear it makes live easier for us
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 18:08:10 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
In-Reply-To: <5k2g1EA+3h0zEwgQ@*******.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 20-Jul-97 wrote Avenger:
>By the Tolkien mythology, which seems a strong influence in the fantasy
>genre, orks are a race derived from Elves. They are in fact Sauron's
>corruption created from his desire to become like the creator. He
>used/uses Elves to create the Orks. Orks, however are more than capable
>of breeding, and hence you get variations on the theme.
Not truly wrong but not truly right.
Morgoth created the Orcs from the Elves trough genetic manipulation
of Elves .
See the Simarilion from JRR its covers the first ages and is written before
the LotR but published afterwards because all puplishers he contacted
doesn`t wanted the book because it was so dark.
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 12:17:02 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
On Saturday, July 19, 1997 20:33, Barbie[SMTP:barbie@**********.COM] wrote:
> At 18-Jul-97 wrote Caric:
>
>
> >Us either...I think I had the highest total ever with somewhere in the
> >neighborhood of 200.
>
> As I have mention at the beginning of the week I have just crossed
> 500 karma :-]
In may campaign, I have a few people close to the 300 mark, and one
approaching 400. OTOH, I have been running the same campaign for ~5 years,
with various players, and some of the PCs have retired for a while. Also,
if the player says "I don't know what to do with my karma," I reccommend
retirement for a while.
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 12:16:19 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkin man
In a message dated 97-07-20 12:00:23 EDT, barbie@**********.COM (Barbie)
writes:
>
>
> BTW I go with 30 + 6d6 and a +15 from taccomp and since we have
> a battleTAC link which adds another 10-20 (operator dependant).
> i can savely say I`m real fast and the others are only 20 points behind me
> :-)))
>
>
Uh, Barbie, how in the name of the ghost do you pull off a 30? I've seen the
17 to 21 on a "speed freak" but beyond that, I don't know. I'm muy
curiosantes...
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:27:28 +0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@***01.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In-Reply-To: <199707200926.LAA07192@*****.xs4all.nl>
On 20 Jul 97 at 11:28, Gurth wrote:
> It looks like only us non-Americans will be left... You won't be
> alone, as a matter of fact it looks like we'll be rid of many of
> those obnoxious Americans for a while ;)
Well, not exactly. This obnoxious American will still be around. And
I think Bull said Tinner will not be going either....
Sorry, guys. :)
--
===DREKHEAD==================================drekhead@***.net====
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
=================================================================
Diplomacy - the art of letting someone have your way.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 12:37:11 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Well, not exactly. This obnoxious American will still be around. And
> I think Bull said Tinner will not be going either....
Nope, that nasty job thing is going to interfere. :-(
However, I'm making Bull take a totemic/voodoo totem of me to carry around
so that I can enjoy the con vicariously! ;-)
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:44:58 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: [Admin] HTML Posting
In-Reply-To: <4821.199707201142@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:42 PM 7/20/97 +0100, you wrote:
#|I hope its being upgraded, and not just mutating on its own :)
#|I suppose that within the year, all mailers will be able to read and write
#|rtf formatted stuff.. :(
#
#ELM is a pure, simple little mailer....
#It CAN read mime, sometimes, when it feels like it.
#I doubt anyone will put RTF treatment into it though, because it only links
#in with text (ASCII ONLY) editors....
Well, if your .mailcap is setup correctly AND you are using an x server,
you already can read rtf files with elm, spawning an RTF viewer, instead of
more or less.
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 21:25:43 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkin man
In-Reply-To: <yam7140.2885.136475920@****.amigaworld.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hmmm...
> MUNCHKIN ALARM TAKE COVER
<wide, sheepish grin>
(or is that carpish grin?)
> >I've been reading through the Paranoid Animals of NA, and saw the
> >Speed Samurai archetype...
>
> Speed Samurai in the PnAoNA ??
> How did you do that ??
OK, so maybe it was in some other Plastic Warriors... I've read
through all of them in one night, so I could have made a mistake...
<munchkin example shown cloaked>
> Take a shapshifter leopard or tiger physical shaman instead.
> 8d6 in humanform or 10 d6 in animal form.
> If the GM allows you can even add a synaptic 2
> going for 10d6/12d6
> the only problen is the implantation of the BW and you should at least be an
> initiate 2 to counter the magic loss..
Damn. I know I SHOULD have persuaded my GM to get that SR Companion
through mail order, not matter what the cost. :>
I wonder when will it be available in here...
> >(I think I should be shot, to miminalize the suffering of my
> >immediate entourage. Heh. :P )
>
> Fire at will guys!!!!
Thwapthwapthwapthwap. <click>
Oh well...
<FZOOK>
.
> >spell locks. :P Or, while we're at it, give the initiate physad a
> >beta or delta-grade wired 3 instead of the bioware - if you allow
> >spell and cyberware stacking. Which is not appilcable in any sane
> >campaign...).
>
> With the critterform spell you will loss the BW/CW effects.
> And theres something beter to do than initiate to counter the magic loss
> from implants with your karma. belive me I know.
Yep. I know it too, but this was about speed, not other abilities...
> BTW I go with 30 + 6d6 and a +15 from taccomp and since we have
> a battleTAC link which adds another 10-20 (operator dependant).
> i can savely say I`m real fast and the others are only 20 points behind me
> :-)))
<GRIN>
Ever seen an Order of CuChullain physical adept with bioware, taccomp
and 2,5 point in enhanced senses? :P
> MUNCHKIN ALARM OVER ALL IS SAFE AGAIN
>
> please keep your replay to field clear it makes live easier for us
I did... (Well, now I did for sure...)
Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
Cyclist have it between their legs.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 21:25:43 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Bows and crossbows
In-Reply-To: <199707200926.LAA07199@*****.xs4all.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hmmm...
> > So, I came up with this simple solution: make the readying of a bow
> > a free action (though I think this would require easy acces to
> > arrows, like stuck in the ground before you, or in a quiver on your
> > hip). This way, you get 3 shots from a bow each 2 combat phases,
> > whereas you get 2 shots from a crossbow each 2 combat rounds.
>
> Erm... What exactly do you mean by "readying" a bow? Putting an arrow on
> the bow? Drawing the string back so you can shoot the weapon? That'd mean
I think it would be just the nocking of the bow... Now, drawing it is
done when you shoot - draw and loose...
> you can shoot the bow once per Combat Phase: you have to spend a Free
> Action to "ready" it, and then a Simple Action to shoot, if I read you
Free action to ready it, simple to shoot, simple to ready (next
phase)
simple to shoot, free to ready, simple to shoot. (next phase)
> correctly. *waits for Dvixen to point out the proper archery terms :) *
> I have a feeling I'm not quite on the same wavelength as you are, though,
> since it looks to me like you still have the same ROF as a crossbow.
See above...
> > I also hope this is not one of the "once a week" topics on this
> > list... (It was not in the FAQ, anyway)...
>
> Not exactly, it may have been brought up before (there's a big chance of
> that) but definitely not on any regular basis, unlike several other
> topics.
> > Oh, yeah, the newbie intro (I hate that part):
>
> Welcome to the list :)
Thanks... :>
> > My main complaint is that I have only one A category... This creation
> > system is Dumb.
>
> Use the optional "add to 10" system from the Companion, then. That way you
> can get two A priorities plus three E's :)
a) I have no Companion :(
b) I don't need no steenkin A's! :P I was just kidding...
Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
Nothing succeeds like a parrot.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 15:27:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Totems
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:11 PM 7/20/97 +0100, Spike wrote these timeless words:
>|
>|>Ok, that's all I can think of now... Granted, it doesn;t all make perfect
>|>sense, and as I mentioned before, smacks of AD&D or other fantasy concpts
>|>(If any of you have read some of the recent Raymond Feist novels, I'm
>|>actually basing the idea on the concept of how their gods work. Don;t ask
>|>me to explain, though. I can;t. :] )
>|
>|Actually, it sounds moslty like the Discworld model to me.
>|
>That's what I was thinking too....
>BULL! If you haven't already, READ SMALL GODS!
>You won't regret it.... :)
>
YOu know, Ever since I joined this list you guys have talked about the
Discworld books... But for the life of me I can't find them anywhere! The
only Discworld anything I'd seen or heard of before joining the list was
the video game...
Hmmm... Maybe time to order some books?
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 21:25:43 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkin man :P
In-Reply-To: <199707200926.LAA07195@*****.xs4all.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hmmm...
<an example of munchkinism snipped>
> There are several problems with the character you're talking about. First
> and foremost, he/she CANNOT be made as a starting character, unless for
> some reason your GM allows you to use Force Points for initiations (which
> I definitely don't).
Yes, I know... However, you could then give him a +2D6 initiative
physad ability... Or just don't give him bioware...
> Second, and this uses a ruling by Tom Dowd that you probably aren't aware
> of and which some people might heavily dispute (MC23, keep quiet, OK? :)
> namely that only the highest initiative boost applies. That means your
> character would have only +3D6, not +11D6.
Well, I don't know about this one... But since DLoH said so... (Exar
Kun anyone?)
Mike (Leszek Karlik): http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike/index.htm
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1
GH/L/O d-(--) s+:- a19 c+++ U?>+ P L>++ E? W++>+++ N++(+++) o+@ K? w(---) O@
M- V? PS+(+++) PE Y PGP- !t--- 5+(-) X>+ R++>+++$ tv- b++++ DI? D+ G-- e h--*!
!r-- y-*
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 07:57:17 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Orks & goblins
In-Reply-To: <33D136FD.23CC@**.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Mat, your mailer's overriding the reply-to the list again...
> <gripe>
> That's kind of funny. Vampires, Wendigos (hi Bull) and Banshees are
Ohhhhh... you're mean. :)
> But saying that they're another species instead of homo sapiens is a
> little like calling AIDS victims homo HIVus... (and yes, I understand
> the deep social commentary being made.)
Hmmm... I don't think so. HIV/AIDS just screws your life up and
generally makes you die early, to put it at its bluntest. (Actually,
IIRC AIDS just buggers up your immune system so you die from something
normally harmless - AIDS doesn't even kill you itself. Or am I wrong
again?)
HMHVV, on the other hand, changes you into a completely different
LIFEFORM! HMHVV infected people get really funky powers and
corresponding weaknesses - since when are AIDS victims (or VITAS victims
if you want to keep it SRish) able to Essence Drain? :)
VITAS to me is the SR equivalent of AIDS - HMHVV is VERY different.
Lady Jestyr
----------------------------------------------------
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota
monax materiam possit materiari?
----------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 17:48:30 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Munchkin man :P
In-Reply-To: <199707200931.DAA18456@******> from "Gurth" at Jul 20,
97 11:28:23 am
Content-Type: text
Gurth wrote:
|
| The original Speed Sam was designed about a year before Cybertechnology
| came out; a few months ago I upgraded him. If you want to I'll send you a
| copy privately, since most subscribers to the list will have seen him
| before.
But, the last version you sent to the list had an error, and you
never sent the corrected version :)
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 17:51:07 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In-Reply-To: <199707200927.DAA18425@******> from "Gurth" at Jul 20,
97 11:28:22 am
Content-Type: text
Gurth wrote:
|
| Spike said on 22:06/19 Jul 97...
|
| > |Nice people going to GenCon:
| >
| > ACK!
| >
| > Does <sob>
| > Does this mean, I'll be all alone??? <sob>
| >
| > <SOB>
|
| It looks like only us non-Americans will be left... You won't be alone,
| as a matter of fact it looks like we'll be rid of many of those obnoxious
| Americans for a while ;)
Nope, sorry, I'll be here. And I'm gonna be as obnoxious as hell ;)
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 17:53:38 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Question concerning movement
In-Reply-To: <199707200050.SAA03533@******> from "Mike" at Jul 20,
97 02:51:50 am
Content-Type: text
Mike wrote:
|
| "Characters who have multiple Actions may run only in one of those
| Combat Phases, but it does not matter which."
Yep, that's what it says.
| Does this make sense?
|
| Nope. (Run walk walk, walk run walk, walk walk run... Kinda stupid,
| isn't it?)
|
| So, what do you think about it?
I'm fine with it. If it was run, run, run, then that would be way to much
of a bonus for enhanced character, IMO.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 18:06:28 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Bows and crossbows
In-Reply-To: <199707200013.SAA29732@******> from "Mike" at Jul 20,
97 02:13:38 am
Content-Type: text
Mike wrote:
|
| when reviewing the SR rules concerning archery, I saw that bows were
| severely shortchanged in comparison to crossbows.
| I am talking about the rate of fire, which is the same in both cases
| (simple action to ready and simple action to shoot). This is
| ludicrous. After all, the main advantage of the bow was it's high
| rate of fire...
Um, no. The advantage of a crossbow is that just about anyone can use it.
Bows require a fair ammount of strength and training.
| So, I came up with this simple solution: make the readying of a bow
| a free action (though I think this would require easy acces to
| arrows, like stuck in the ground before you, or in a quiver on your
| hip).
I disagree. "Free actions are relatively simple, nearly automatic
actions that require little or no effort to accomplish." Picking up
an arrow is pretty easy, but nocking(sp?) the thing requires some
concentration (I have a fair ammount of RL experience on this one).
| Maybe make readying a crossbow a complex action,
"A Complex Action requires the most intense concentration of all the
possible action types." IMO, readying a crossbow doesn't fit into
this category. It's the reverse of readying a bow, pull back the
line, load the bolt, and you're ready to go.
| I also hope this is not one of the "once a week" topics on this
| list... (It was not in the FAQ, anyway)...
Naw, this one only comes up about once a year :)
[snip: 19/19/19 Drow Fighter/Mage/Cleric. What's a munchkin?]
| <grin, duck & run>
Gah! ;)
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 18:08:34 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Lotsa Karma
In-Reply-To: <199707182306.RAA15487@******> from "Caric" at Jul 18,
97 03:54:17 pm
Content-Type: text
Caric wrote:
|
| > Fascinating, in five years of playing Shadowrun, none of my players have
| > had characters, even the long term ones, anywhere near this Karma total.
| > Boy am I going to lynched if they find out. :)
|
| Us either...I think I had the highest total ever with somewhere in the
| neighborhood of 200.
It helps when the GM is handing out too much karma :( I just read
the karma rules again and found out I misread something <sigh>.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 22:37:13 +0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@***01.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Orks & goblins
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970721075308.1746A-100000@*******.dialix.com.au>
On 21 Jul 97 at 7:57, Lady Jestyr wrote:
> Hmmm... I don't think so. HIV/AIDS just screws your life up and
> generally makes you die early, to put it at its bluntest. (Actually,
> IIRC AIDS just buggers up your immune system so you die from
> something normally harmless - AIDS doesn't even kill you itself. Or
> am I wrong again?)
No, that's correct. It destroys your immune system, so you generally
die from something else.
> HMHVV, on the other hand, changes you into a completely different
> LIFEFORM! HMHVV infected people get really funky powers and
> corresponding weaknesses - since when are AIDS victims (or VITAS
> victims if you want to keep it SRish) able to Essence Drain? :)
>
> VITAS to me is the SR equivalent of AIDS - HMHVV is VERY different.
That is why the different scientific classifications of the infected
species. They ARE a different species. HMHVV actually alters the
whole DNA, and mutates the whole organism, rather than specific cells
like most virii.
--
===DREKHEAD==================================drekhead@***.net====
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
=================================================================
If at first you DO succeed, try not to look astonished!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 04:51:35 -0700
Reply-To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: Orks & goblins
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> > HMHVV, on the other hand, changes you into a completely different
> > LIFEFORM! HMHVV infected people get really funky powers and
> > corresponding weaknesses - since when are AIDS victims (or VITAS
> > victims if you want to keep it SRish) able to Essence Drain? :)
> > VITAS to me is the SR equivalent of AIDS - HMHVV is VERY different.
> That is why the different scientific classifications of the infected
> species. They ARE a different species. HMHVV actually alters the
> whole DNA, and mutates the whole organism, rather than specific cells
> like most virii.
Can't agree, mostly because SR disagrees with itself. Vampires,
Wendigos and Banshees are given different taxonomies than Dzoo-noo-quah
and the whatevers Gurth mentioned (man, my memory's short), the latter
two being taxonomied as homo (species), whereas the Vampires et al are
distinctly called "human subspecies" in the flavor text. To resound the
refrain: catching a virus (no matter its effects) doesn't qualify one
into a new species. (Unless you really want to broaden the definition
pass the scientific view. Do mages count as their own species too?)
I don't buy any of it (g), considering the taxonomies to be bungled by
uncertainty and politics. But it makes for great coffee talk...
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 20:41:39 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Dragons at the end of an age
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---"J. Keith Henry" wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-07-18 01:27:18 EDT, daddyjim@**********.COM
(Loki)
> writes:
>
> M
> e
> r
> c
> u
> r
> i
> a
> l
>
> S
> p
> o
> i
> l
> e
> r
> s
>
> f
> o
> r
>
> t
> h
> e
>
> U
> l
> t
> r
> a
>
> S
> e
> n
> s
> i
> t
> i
> v
> e
>
> >
> > Now, Perianwyr isn't a great dragon so this would seem to imply
that
> > both great and lesser dragons both go into a sleep or stasis
during
> > times of low/no mana.
> >
> Okay, now I admit that it was 7 years ago (6?), but I recall
Perianwyr being
> a Great Western Dragon.
Nope. He's in "Maria Mercurial" and "A Killing Glare" and in both he's
just your run of the mill (run of the mill?) dragon. You couldn't
really picture a Great Dragon chummin' round with Kyle and working as
a wetwork specialist for Aztechnology, could you? :o)
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 04:02:35 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Munchkin man
In-Reply-To: <199707201921.VAA28836@****.polbox.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
At 20-Jul-97 wrote Mike (Leszek Karlik):
>Damn. I know I SHOULD have persuaded my GM to get that SR Companion
>through mail order, not matter what the cost. :>
>I wonder when will it be available in here...
The companion is nice but the official rule about the shapeshifter are re=
aly
§$%$(/%$$%&/&/( we ditched them in the first second.
>Yep. I know it too, but this was about speed, not other abilities...
But speed alone is not enough to consider, always take care of the
larger picture.
>Ever seen an Order of CuChullain physical adept with bioware, taccomp
>and 2,5 point in enhanced senses? :P
Yup, he was dead before his turn came.
-- =
Barbie
==========================
==========================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==========================
==========================
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 04:37:12 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Munchkin man
In-Reply-To: <970720120709_377369366@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 20-Jul-97 wrote J. Keith Henry:
>Uh, Barbie, how in the name of the ghost do you pull off a 30? I've seen the
>17 to 21 on a "speed freak" but beyond that, I don't know. I'm muy
>curiosantes...
Ok, Keith just for your curiosity:
First its in animal form :-)
18 from attributes
3 lightning reflexes
6 reaction enhancer
1 enhanced atriculation
2 from the shapeshifter
In human form the last one doesn`t count so its 28.
To clear things even more we don`t use the silly compainon rules for
shapeshifter.
We have revers engineered the npc stats for them.
Mainly because the compainon was not on the horizon when we needed shapeshifer
rules.
And normaly our shapshifter can`t get implantes but this character is special
she is not born as animal. She became a shapeshifter because the GM used her
for a guinea pig after she had all the implants. From that point on her live
was realy
hard, today she had barly controll over her new powers.
Another special rule is that when you become something with regeneration
or shapealtering powers AFTER you had some implantes they stay within your
body but its not possible to alter some of the implats after that through
operations or so
they can only be damaged but not repaired anymore.
So in the long run it doesn`t count.
I can`t even get rid of my cortexbombs<sigh>
And if someone discovers that I`m a shapshifter I will be in deep deep shit.
Since that special case had happened only once in five years and until today
noone of my group had tried to misuse these rules, it worked for us.
Hope this makes things clearer.
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 04:13:37 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Bows and crossbows
In-Reply-To: <199707210006.SAA27872@******>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 20-Jul-97 wrote David Buehrer:
>| Maybe make readying a crossbow a complex action,
>"A Complex Action requires the most intense concentration of all the
>possible action types." IMO, readying a crossbow doesn't fit into
>this category. It's the reverse of readying a bow, pull back the
>line, load the bolt, and you're ready to go.
I think a complex action is not only defined by the concentration
you need but its also a matter of time which you need to do something.
And readying a crossbow takes longer than a bow, especialy for the
heavier ones. So I thing a complex action is OK.
And after your course of action it would be two simples so no real difference.
A bow would be faster because you pull the string back with the arrow.
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 01:53:07 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Deosyne <deosyne@*********.NET>
Organization: The War Machine
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Spike wrote:
>
> |<snip my post>
>
> How does Shadowrun 3rd Edition grab you?
> --
>
Like vice grips to the genital region. Now I'll have to learn to convert
1st Ed. to 3rd! Maybe I'll give in this time and just buy the damn 3rd
<grumble>. So what's the deal this time, they merging 2nd ed. sourcebook
with the companion and choice goodies from the supplements, or are they
shooting for an overhaul of the system? (Mike, you still around? :)
Deosyne
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 01:44:13 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Bows and crossbows
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
David wrote:
I disagree. "Free actions are relatively simple, nearly automatic
actions that require little or no effort to accomplish." Picking up
an arrow is pretty easy, but nocking(sp?) the thing requires some
concentration (I have a fair ammount of RL experience on this one).
Wrong! (no offense) but knocking an arrow is natural, I have some
experience in archery (won a couple kid tourneys) I don't know the SR
equivenenlt of the skill level (maybe 4/5) at that level maybe lower It
defiantly should be a free action!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:48:59 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "SHANE J. WINZAR" <s702399@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Mana Storms?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I've been reading source material for adventures based in
Australia and come across the term 'Mana Storm'...what are they, I've
never heard of them before and I've read most of the Fasa books, have
they been made up by someone? anyway what are they and what sort of
damage do they do etc,
Thanx in advance, Tamino
Shane Winzar aka Tamino
s702399@*******.gu.edu.au Student of Information Tech.
'Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most.'
-Ozzi (sp?) Osbourne and lately Cereal Killer, Hackers.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:17:13 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Designs [was: Re: We Don't Need No
Stinkin'Munchies!!!]
In-Reply-To:
<c=US%a=_%pÞSHAW%l=MSBOSTON1-970717225226Z-10134@*********.boston.deshaw.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In message <c=US%a=_%pÞSHAW%l=MSBOSTON1-970717225226Z-10134@*********.
boston.deshaw.com>, "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM> writes
>Top Cat ranted, standing upon podium, beating chest:
>> Design the campaign, work with the players to get the characters to
>>mesh,
>>then go from there... formula for a perfect campaign.
>>
>>To which Kohl replys:
>> Okay! First off, I've got to say, TopCat, you bring a whole new meaning
>>to GM fasism!
>> Design the campaign, design out the characters, dictate who goes and
>>knows where and what? Why don't you just play all the PCs and NPCs yourself?
>> The whole point of the game is to allow the players to run a character
>>they LIKE to run, WITHIN REASON. NOT dictate to them what they can and cannot
>>have or do!
I tend towards TopCat's position here. I don't think he hands out
character sheets and says "play this or else": if I were joining his
game I guess I'd describe what I wanted to play, and then he and I would
negotiate how to achieve it.
Bob seems to favour small guns: fine, we'll discuss that. Maybe in my
last game SMGs were fairly common: but playing with TopCat they're heavy
artillery and all my PC needs is a pistol or a Defiance T-250.
I don't see that as fascism, I see it as a GM helping his players to
enjoy the campaign better.
--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:12:09 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@*IBK.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: question
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970718113442.006d67c4@****.lis.ab.ca>
HI!
Just one simple, not too important question to all those who play
shadowrun regularly...
What If a player is missing at one session? Do you let another one
play his character? Or do you think of a way to let the character
disappear for some time?
If somebody else plays the character, aren't ther problems with the
stats since the character sheet in question should be missing as
well?
Ok, I'ts really not too important, but anyway, Id like to know how
others play...
ss
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:17:39 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <232DA9B56D3@********.uibk.ac.at>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> If somebody else plays the character, aren't ther problems with the
> stats since the character sheet in question should be missing as
> well?
We generally either leave them out if they weren't essential to the
plotline or we're in a bad mood. :) If we need their character, someone
else generally plays the character. E.g. my boyfriend sometimes has to
work weekends; thus I take his character sheet to the game session and
play two deckers instead of one :)
Lady Jestyr
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:19:50 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@*IBK.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <232DA9B56D3@********.uibk.ac.at>
Hi!
Did you ever notice that in shadowrun unarmed combat the fight is
over after 5 seconds... the one who scores the first hit wins the
fight since with the higher target number due to the injury, the
other one stands no chance... so what does the smart player? through
anything he has... all the pools, combat and karma, into the first
attack... then he either has won or lost... its all over after the
first combat turn. Really makes me sick...
In order to develope a cool fistfight that lasts for a few minutes, I
have to break the rules several times.
Does anyone out there know a solution/does anyone share the same
experiences? If not, why not?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:22:40 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@*IBK.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970721181619.14208A-100000@*******.dialix.com.au>
> We generally either leave them out if they weren't essential to the
> plotline or we're in a bad mood.
>
> Lady Jestyr
You leave them out even if the character didn't have time to leave?
So he just disappears sometimes and reappears later? Well, thats the
easiest sulution, but the least satisfying one.
ss
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 03:26:47 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: question
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Personaly I wouldn't let anybody else play my character and I would not
enjoy playing sombody elses, this is just my opinion but I think that
it's kinda cheap and that it messes up characters to let multiple people
play them (playing styles differ), We tryed it once, not exactly what
your saying but we made a ":group character" that we took turns playing,
It realy didn't work out nor did it enhance out role playing enjoyment,
O~well another good Idea down the drain.
I think the GM or better yet the players, should find a way to have him
not here at the time, It just makes sense to me.
Here's a question I want to through out, Do you PCs play multiple
characters? or just one? I was in a small group once and each person
played at leas 2 sometimes up to 6 players, I think It got confusing
real quick. What do you guys think and or do?
Thankx
Caun :}
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:27:42 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <23307B207E1@********.uibk.ac.at>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> > We generally either leave them out if they weren't essential to the
> > plotline or we're in a bad mood.
>
> You leave them out even if the character didn't have time to leave?
> So he just disappears sometimes and reappears later? Well, thats the
> easiest sulution, but the least satisfying one.
If the character in question is in the middle of a scene where there's
no way his/her absence can be logically explained, then I'd say that's
essential to the plotline. :)
EG. if we're in the middle of a blazing gunfight, he stays - but
generally gets ignored by the GM unless we have the character sheet
there. If we're doing a surveillance he goes - just nipped out to meet a
contact, or whatever...
Lady Jestyr
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 03:37:58 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: question
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> You leave them out even if the character didn't have time to leave?
> So he just disappears sometimes and reappears later? Well, thats the
> easiest sulution, but the least satisfying one.
>
In our sessions there is usually a small time in game time between
playing, just write a story of why he's not there ie. captured by
sombody, family crisis,whatever. If you know somone is going to be gone
in advance GM could design a campain/senerio about him/her being
captuerd for ransom and you have to get him back or some such It's
actualy quite fun resquing you chummers instead of some wage slave
wackout!You should try it somtime! you'll enjoy it!
Caun :}
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 04:36:23 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: question
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:12 AM 7/21/97 +0100, Simon T. Sailer wrote these timeless words:
>HI!
>Just one simple, not too important question to all those who play
>shadowrun regularly...
>What If a player is missing at one session? Do you let another one
>play his character? Or do you think of a way to let the character
>disappear for some time?
>
Well, with my group, it seems to be really hard to get everyone together
everytime, so quite often we have someone missing between games.
This isn;t too big a problem, as usually we manage to wap up a night's game
session in a spot where everyone has seperated, or could seperate. So if
someone is missing for the next adventure, the could be sick, getting a
"tune up" (if they're a chrome job), or "communing with the spirits"
(I
have a Shaman and a Physical Shaman, so...:)), or whetever.
SOmetimes, we end thigs in a spot that's impossible to get in and out of.
Currently, my players are crawling around inside an Ant Hive. If something
happens and I have an Extra Player, or am missing one, well... The laws of
physics, and the previous story, can be altered...:]
>If somebody else plays the character, aren't ther problems with the
>stats since the character sheet in question should be missing as
>well?
>
Well... A lot of GM's keep a copy of their players Character Sheets, or
even hold on to the sheet so that theirs no cheating between games. In
this case, another player could play the char (though usually I won't allow
this), or the missing character can be an NPC for the night, run by the GM...
>Ok, I'ts really not too important, but anyway, Id like to know how
>others play...
>
> ss
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:41:30 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <33D1DC6F.34F204CB@*********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> In our sessions there is usually a small time in game time between
> playing, just write a story of why he's not there ie. captured by
> sombody, family crisis,whatever. If you know somone is going to be gone
Often our sessions break off in the middle of adventures - it's a bit
hard to explain why Fred suddenly just "vanished" before your eyes...
> in advance GM could design a campain/senerio about him/her being
> captuerd for ransom and you have to get him back or some such It's
> actualy quite fun resquing you chummers instead of some wage slave
> wackout!You should try it somtime! you'll enjoy it!
Tried it. Never again... it messes with your head when your character's
best friend doesn't recognise any of his buddies and thinks they're
trying to hurt him. Brainwashing is bad.
Lady Jestyr
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 04:44:18 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:19 AM 7/21/97 +0100, Simon T. Sailer wrote these timeless words:
>Hi!
>Did you ever notice that in shadowrun unarmed combat the fight is
>over after 5 seconds... the one who scores the first hit wins the
>fight since with the higher target number due to the injury, the
>other one stands no chance... so what does the smart player? through
>anything he has... all the pools, combat and karma, into the first
>attack... then he either has won or lost... its all over after the
>first combat turn. Really makes me sick...
>In order to develope a cool fistfight that lasts for a few minutes, I
>have to break the rules several times.
>Does anyone out there know a solution/does anyone share the same
>experiences? If not, why not?
>
Roleplay out combat, making the players tell exactly what they're doing,
and determine the outcome that way... That's probably the only way to do
it without completely coming up with a new set of combat rules...
Also, I have strentched out the "Combat Round" more than the 3-5 seconds
that are supposed to elapse. tehre are simply too many things that happen
in the normal turn, and I still imagine my fight scenes as cinimatic in
nature. Lots of bullets flying that never hit anyone, and hand to hand
combat that involves a lot of attacks and parries before anyone hits. That
sort of thing... So I stretch each round out to anywhere from 10 seconds
to 30 seconds, dependiong on how much happens in a single turn.
Also, I don;t keep track of ammo, and don;t make my players do that either,
except in extreme situations... Thus going for the John Woo Automatic
Reloads in less than a second...;]
Bull-who-plays-fast-and-loose-with-rules-quite-often-for-the-sake-of-trhe-story
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 04:44:21 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Playing Multiple Charactrs (was Re: question)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:26 AM 7/20/97 -0600, Caun Haskins wrote these timeless words:
>Here's a question I want to through out, Do you PCs play multiple
>characters? or just one? I was in a small group once and each person
>played at leas 2 sometimes up to 6 players, I think It got confusing
>real quick. What do you guys think and or do?
>
Well... I've never done it with Shadowrun, though I would let (if we were
ever short of players) my guys play up to 2 characters, max... Of course,
I _LIKE_ a small group (my ideal group is 4, one from each major group).
Of course, I never really have a shortage of players. I have too many,
ocaasionally... Of course, if we're talking GOOD players... that's
another subject. I have maybe 2 or 3...;]
We did do this in D&D WAAAAYYYYY back when... When only me, and my little
brother, and my one cousin was playing. I think I usually played 2
characters,,,;]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 03:56:16 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: question
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Brainwashing is bad.
>
Copy that! (a bit OT though) i realy wasn't talking about that.
Bull's idea of NPC ing them works ok as well, still think getting rid
of them for this session is bes though.
brains are terible things to mess with I rely dislike that false memory
spell in the hands of Johnson, that sucks!
Caun :}
P.S. hey Bull when do you sleep? I don't think you ever stop posting,
just wondering.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:01:18 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Munchkin man
In-Reply-To: <yam7140.2885.136475920@****.amigaworld.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Barbie said on 17:55/20 Jul 97...
> >I've been reading through the Paranoid Animals of NA, and saw the
> >Speed Samurai archetype...
>
> Speed Samurai in the PnAoNA ??
> How did you do that ??
ParaNOID, not ParaNORMAL. Available from my WWW page, if you have the time
and inclination to download about 2 MB. Everybody seems to think the pics
on the back are a joke about CCGs, but they're not...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:56:05 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In-Reply-To: <970720091715_-1157897529@*******.mail.aol.com> from "J. Keith
Henry" at Jul 20, 97 09:17:15 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|Why no Spike, it mean's you'll be stuck with me...
|-Keith
AAAAAARGH!!!
:)
Hey Gurth! Where IS EuroGencon?????
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:08:44 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [Admin] HTML Posting
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970720114458.007ae240@***.iquest.net> from
"Jaymz" at
Jul 20, 97 11:44:58 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|Well, if your .mailcap is setup correctly AND you are using an x server,
|you already can read rtf files with elm, spawning an RTF viewer, instead of
|more or less.
Oh, it spawns RTF viewers. That's how come I can read mail, but I doubt
anyone will EVER make it SEND RTF.... That's what I meant....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:10:45 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Munchkin man
In-Reply-To: <199707201921.VAA28836@****.polbox.pl> from "Mike" at Jul
20,
97 09:25:43 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|> Speed Samurai in the PnAoNA ??
|> How did you do that ??
|
|OK, so maybe it was in some other Plastic Warriors... I've read
|through all of them in one night, so I could have made a mistake...
I should hope so. PNAoNA is genuine FASA, not plastic warriors....
Or did you mean PARANOID animals of north america?????
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:13:32 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Totems
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970720151701.368f7be6@*****.com> from "Bull" at
Jul 20,
97 03:27:01 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|YOu know, Ever since I joined this list you guys have talked about the
|Discworld books... But for the life of me I can't find them anywhere! The
|only Discworld anything I'd seen or heard of before joining the list was
|the video game...
|
|Hmmm... Maybe time to order some books?
One word.... Yes!
If you want to get them in the correct order, it's:
The Colour of Magic, The Light Fantastic, Equal Rites, Mort, Wyrd Sisters
(now a Channel 4 cartoon ;) ), errrr.... HELP.... There're so many I've
forgotten the order......
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:22:32 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
In-Reply-To: <33C86D43.77F394BC@*********.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Deosyne said on 1:53/13 Jul 97...
Has anyone told you your system clock is a week behind?
> Like vice grips to the genital region. Now I'll have to learn to convert
> 1st Ed. to 3rd! Maybe I'll give in this time and just buy the damn 3rd
> <grumble>. So what's the deal this time, they merging 2nd ed. sourcebook
> with the companion and choice goodies from the supplements, or are they
> shooting for an overhaul of the system? (Mike, you still around? :)
FASAMike no longer subscribes because he's apparently too busy with other
things (since they're most likely Shadowrun-related, I guess he can be
forgiven :) but it looks like SR3 will do to SR2 what SR2 did to SR1 --
attempt to streamline the system, and add in major rules changes like VR
2.0 and RBB2 (which will be out this autumn).
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:22:33 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Munchkin man :P
In-Reply-To: <199707201921.VAA28671@****.polbox.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Mike (Leszek Karlik) said on 21:25/20 Jul 97...
> Yes, I know... However, you could then give him a +2D6 initiative
> physad ability... Or just don't give him bioware...
I'll probably, when I have nothing better to do, try to design as fast as
possible a character who _doesn't_ use cyberware, and see how that
compares to the speed sam.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:22:33 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Viral diseases
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970721075308.1746A-100000@*******.dialix.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Lady Jestyr said on 7:57/21 Jul 97...
> Hmmm... I don't think so. HIV/AIDS just screws your life up and
> generally makes you die early, to put it at its bluntest. (Actually,
> IIRC AIDS just buggers up your immune system so you die from something
> normally harmless - AIDS doesn't even kill you itself. Or am I wrong
> again?)
HIV stands for Human Immuno(sp?)-deficiency Virus, and though I have no
real experience with it (and don't want to either :) from everything I've
seen and read about it, AIDS stops your immune system from working; AIDS
itself doesn't do anything to you except destroy your defenses. In the
end AIDS patients die from diseases everyone else survives easily, or
which they don't even get at all.
I guess you could compare it to being in a locked house with people
outside wanting to get you. They can't get in, but if they get a bulldozer
they can demolish the wall and get at you.
> HMHVV, on the other hand, changes you into a completely different
> LIFEFORM! HMHVV infected people get really funky powers and
> corresponding weaknesses - since when are AIDS victims (or VITAS victims
> if you want to keep it SRish) able to Essence Drain? :)
Maybe that would be the solution :)
Now we're talking about it, what woul VITAS do anyway? SRII gives a
VITAS-3 a damage of 6D and says sufferers get chills, fever, and vomiting
until damage gets reduced to Light, but that's it. Doesn't sound like a
disease that wiped out millions of people to me...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:22:33 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <232DA9B56D3@********.uibk.ac.at>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Simon T. Sailer said on 10:12/21 Jul 97...
> What If a player is missing at one session? Do you let another one
> play his character? Or do you think of a way to let the character
> disappear for some time?
My usual way of handling this is turning the character into a semi-NPC;
that is, the GM (usually me) plays the character but (s)he stays in the
background. When the other players make plans, I tend to assume the absent
player agrees with them, and therefore so does the character, unless it's
something I know the char would really be opposed to.
> If somebody else plays the character, aren't ther problems with the
> stats since the character sheet in question should be missing as
> well?
Not when I GM, because I take the sheets with me at the end of each game
session.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:22:33 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Munchkin man :P
In-Reply-To: <199707202348.RAA27672@******>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
David Buehrer said on 17:48/20 Jul 97...
> But, the last version you sent to the list had an error, and you
> never sent the corrected version :)
Yes, I did... After the mistake (which happened because I confused the
two Essence costs given on the page with the Reaction Enhancer in
Cybertechnology) I corrected it and IIRC posted the latest version.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 04:30:38 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <232DA9B56D3@********.uibk.ac.at>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:12 7/21/97 +0100, you wrote:
>HI!
>Just one simple, not too important question to all those who play
>shadowrun regularly...
>What If a player is missing at one session? Do you let another one
>play his character? Or do you think of a way to let the character
>disappear for some time?
In my last campaign this would have been a bigger problem, since the PC's
had decided to be friends outside of work.
In the new campaign I should be starting this week, I've done a bit more of
the deciding for the players, and they will not be close friends outside of
working. This will make it easier for one character to pull out of a job
early, or not show up at all.
>If somebody else plays the character, aren't ther problems with the
>stats since the character sheet in question should be missing as
>well?
I ussually keep the character sheets all at my place, but I've ran games
without them before <g>
-Aj
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
GC3.1 GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:34:23 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
In-Reply-To: <33C86D43.77F394BC@*********.net> from "Deosyne" at Jul 13,
97 01:53:07 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|Spike wrote:
|>
|> |<snip my post>
|>
|> How does Shadowrun 3rd Edition grab you?
|> --
|>
|Like vice grips to the genital region. Now I'll have to learn to convert
|1st Ed. to 3rd! Maybe I'll give in this time and just buy the damn 3rd
|<grumble>.
Don't worry. They only just started work on it. Someone asked for things we
wanted fixing, clarifying and changing....
It broke list-bulk records...
(one of the things suggested by quite a few people was to bring back
variable staging.....)
So what's the deal this time, they merging 2nd ed. sourcebook
|with the companion and choice goodies from the supplements, or are they
|shooting for an overhaul of the system? (Mike, you still around? :)
Basically, I think it's going to be SHRII + VRII + RBB2 + clarifications and
rules tidying.....
(Although it'll only have the RULES from VRII and RBB2, none of the
equipstuff, and probably in brief).
It's not scheduled for a year or two..... Someone said 1998, so 1999 it is
then....
:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:36:54 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Mana Storms?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970721164323.1306C@*****.student.gu.edu.au> from
"SHANE J. WINZAR" at Jul 21, 97 04:48:59 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
| I've been reading source material for adventures based in
|Australia and come across the term 'Mana Storm'...what are they, I've
|never heard of them before and I've read most of the Fasa books, have
|they been made up by someone? anyway what are they and what sort of
|damage do they do etc,
Have you read "Choose your enemies carefully"?
Verner sees a few Mana storms in Aussieland when he's after the really
powerfull focus in Airs(sp?) Rock.....
We'll probably have to wait for an Aussie sourcebook before they get
explained though.....
I Want to know how they work and what they do as well....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:54:58 -0700
Reply-To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Now we're talking about it, what woul VITAS do anyway? SRII gives a
> VITAS-3 a damage of 6D and says sufferers get chills, fever, and vomiting
> until damage gets reduced to Light, but that's it. Doesn't sound like a
> disease that wiped out millions of people to me...
The virus, um, Reads The Script (for all the Trekkers out there...)
But this is VITAS-*3* we're talking about -- it was the original VITAS
that did the nasty salsa over so many. It's damage code has been lost
to antiquity -- probably got smurfed during the 2029 Crash, or sumfin'.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:42:39 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970721184002.14208C-100000@*******.dialix.com.au>
from "Lady Jestyr" at Jul 21, 97 06:41:30 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|> In our sessions there is usually a small time in game time between
|> playing, just write a story of why he's not there ie. captured by
|> sombody, family crisis,whatever. If you know somone is going to be gone
|
|Often our sessions break off in the middle of adventures - it's a bit
|hard to explain why Fred suddenly just "vanished" before your eyes...
In shadowrun, that always was a toughie.... I'd have him knocked unconcious
almost straight away (stun only), and miraculously recover when he turns
up.... Poetic licence, don't ya know...
In rifts, it's somewhat easier. You just have one of the baddies use a
one-use weapon that creates a small dimentional pocket that sucks him
in..... He then pops out when convenient....
:)
|Tried it. Never again... it messes with your head when your character's
|best friend doesn't recognise any of his buddies and thinks they're
|trying to hurt him. Brainwashing is bad.
I thought that'd be the whole point.....
:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:44:28 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <33D1E0B6.204B63F5@*********.com> from "Caun Haskins" at Jul
20,
97 03:56:16 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|P.S. hey Bull when do you sleep? I don't think you ever stop posting,
|just wondering.
|
I thought you knew!
Bull is an AI. He never sleeps....
:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:48:58 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
In-Reply-To: <199707211021.MAA14734@*****.xs4all.nl> from "Gurth" at Jul
21,
97 12:22:33 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|Now we're talking about it, what woul VITAS do anyway? SRII gives a
|VITAS-3 a damage of 6D and says sufferers get chills, fever, and vomiting
|until damage gets reduced to Light, but that's it. Doesn't sound like a
|disease that wiped out millions of people to me...
I think it's pretty obvious. Look at the acronym...
V... Virally
I... Induced
T... Toxic
A... Allergy
S... Syndrome
It makes you severely allergic to EVERYTHING!
(Probably even air....)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 08:31:09 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Angel Ramos y David Fayes <hansa@****.NET>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <232DA9B56D3@********.uibk.ac.at>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:12 AM 21/07/1997 +0100, you wrote:
>HI!
>Just one simple, not too important question to all those who play
>shadowrun regularly...
>What If a player is missing at one session? Do you let another one
>play his character? Or do you think of a way to let the character
>disappear for some time?
>
In or gaming group we don't play the missing person's PC. If there is no
way we can manage this PC to separate from the group we just freeze it.
>If somebody else plays the character, aren't ther problems with the
>stats since the character sheet in question should be missing as
>well?
Our GM keeps copies of our PC (in case someone is cheating) in case someone
didn't bring his PC sheet. Just like happened yesterday with the Otaku PC.
>Ok, I'ts really not too important, but anyway, Id like to know how
>others play...
This is our way.
Hope this help a little
Elven Mage
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 08:17:37 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Angel Ramos y David Fayes <hansa@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Stranger Souls is #1
In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19970719070244.0070660c@*rsula.uoregon.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:02 AM 19/07/1997 -0700, you wrote:
>Just thought I'd mention that Stranger Souls made the number one slot on the
>LOCUS magazine bestseller list for June (in the Game-related fiction
>category). This was it's first month in stores so I'm pretty friggin stoked.
>My personal thanks to those of you on the list who've bought a copy. Also I
>am greatly appreciative to those who've sent me email responses.
>
Great!!
I did my request to my bookstore here in Venezuela. Awaiting eagerly!!!!!!
Saludos
Elven Mage
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:48:15 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bruce <gyro@********.CO.ZA>
Subject: Re: WoTC on TV (was: Re: WOTC/FASA)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>MtG has been building in popularity and economic (if such a thing is
>possible) power for some time now. The only thing about that game that I had
>to respond to most of the players here at one time was ....
>
>"Gee, now that I know whom the real powergamers/munchkins are."
>
>I am not saying that everything about MtG is bad, but it did help a lot of
>people look at things differently.
>-Keith
>
OK as an earnest role player and a fanatical card gamer I would like to know
where the Magic=Munchkin link even begins. Please.
>>>>>>BRUCE
"Dont hit me, I just drive the car!"
-Sharkboy, our Rigger to peeved razorgal<<<<<<<
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:04:26 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Totems -Reply
>But, to query up an ED term. What about the
>Passions and the Loa? Those two sets of
>beings are most notably -not- mental
>constructs in the normal sense as Spells,
>Watchers and perhaps Ally beings.
Maybe, maybe not, but I dare you to PROVE it.
Double-Domed Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:52:41 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: [OT] EuroGenCon
Spike Writes
>
> Hey Gurth! Where IS EuroGencon?????
Awaiting.
Well the answer is Loughborough University, 28th to 31st August. (so
you are a LOT closer than Gurth :) ).
More data available or try ringing TSR.
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:50:32 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: [OT] EuroGenCon
Gurth writes
> BTW, since this started as a GenCon thing, who will be going to the
> European version?
>
I will, but i think you at least knew that.
Note i am still awaiting the pack about whats going on there though
last i heard off TSR its due about now.
I have some plans forming, more when i have time.
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:01:46 MEZ-1MESZ
Reply-To: sandman@****.uni-oldenburg.de
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: HAUPT ULRICH FB08 <sandman@****.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Organization: University Of Oldenburg Comp.Center
Subject: Re: question
> What If a player is missing at one session? Do you let another one
> play his character? Or do you think of a way to let the character
> disappear for some time?
As you can imagine the allsaying answer:
It depends on the adventure ! But in my group the character usually
will be played by the game master. In some cases the other players
play the one - especially in combat situations.
Most of the time such characters are judt good enough to hold the
torch, drive the car or watch for Lone Star.
I remember only 4 times when a character was kicked off the
adventure! 2 of those were meetings were ane adventure ended and
another started (with a new game master).
I hope I could help you!
Sandman
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:46:26 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In-Reply-To: <12503.199707210956@*****.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Spike said on 10:56/21 Jul 97...
> Hey Gurth! Where IS EuroGencon?????
Loughborough (sp?) University. When I looked it up on the map, it appears
to be a bit below Nottingham. I'll definitely be there for four days
(28-31 August), but I was wondering who else from this list is planning to
go.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:46:26 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Discworld novels (was Re: Totems)
In-Reply-To: <12595.199707211013@*****.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Spike said on 11:13/21 Jul 97...
> |Hmmm... Maybe time to order some [Discworld] books?
>
> One word.... Yes!
Another word: Definitely!
> If you want to get them in the correct order, it's:
> The Colour of Magic, The Light Fantastic, Equal Rites, Mort, Wyrd Sisters
> (now a Channel 4 cartoon ;) ), errrr.... HELP.... There're so many I've
> forgotten the order......
Afetr Wyrd Sisters, there's Pyramids, Guards! Guards!, Eric, Moving
Pictures, Reaper Man, Witches Abroad, Small Gods, Lords And Ladies, Men At
Arms, Soul Music, Interesting Times, Maskerade, and one or two others I
don't own yet.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:48:36 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In-Reply-To: <199707211445.QAA18204@*****.xs4all.nl> from "Gurth" at Jul
21,
97 04:46:26 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|Spike said on 10:56/21 Jul 97...
|
|> Hey Gurth! Where IS EuroGencon?????
|
|Loughborough (sp?) University. When I looked it up on the map, it appears
|to be a bit below Nottingham. I'll definitely be there for four days
|(28-31 August), but I was wondering who else from this list is planning to
|go.
I might, but I doubt I can afford it....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:50:04 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Discworld novels (was Re: Totems)
In-Reply-To: <199707211445.QAA18223@*****.xs4all.nl> from "Gurth" at Jul
21,
97 04:46:26 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|Arms, Soul Music, Interesting Times, Maskerade, and one or two others I
|don't own yet.
Hogfather and Feet of clay.....
(I've not even read Masquerade yet.... I'm falling behind....)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 08:51:57 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: M:TG = Munchkin? (Was Re: WoTC on TV)
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970721094815.008459dc@********.co.za>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:48 7/21/97 +0200, you wrote:
>>MtG has been building in popularity and economic (if such a thing is
>>possible) power for some time now. The only thing about that game that I
had
>>to respond to most of the players here at one time was ....
>>
>>"Gee, now that I know whom the real powergamers/munchkins are."
>OK as an earnest role player and a fanatical card gamer I would like to know
>where the Magic=Munchkin link even begins. Please.
I think alot of it stems from card gamers who have never played RPG's, and
then try to start RPG's. A CCG's goal (Most of them.) is to kill the
opponent(s) as fast as possible, with any means nessesary. (Red fireball
decks, anyone?). A RPG has so much more depth than most card games, and
most card gamers have a bitch of a time adjusting. I know some people who
play both and do well at each of them, but I know alot of people who play
M:TG and can't grasp Shadowrun..
Then again, I know a few people who play AD&D and can't grasp Shadowrun. <g>
-Adam
Who is glad the gaming store owner is cutting back on CCG's and stocking
more SR.
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
GC3.1 GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 08:52:39 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
hernandez wrote:
>
> <SNIP>
> > Actually, one of my more striking early memories of Phoenix Arizona was
> of a
> > guy on a motorcycle (probably a Harley, who knows) riding along the road
> -in-
> > the city limits, he had a Shotgun (BIG THING), a Katana (No, I'm not
> kidding)
> > and what could have been a "heavy pistol". It didn't seem to stop
him,
> and
> > the police officer was driving two cars behind him. Talk about a change
> in
> > society.
> Arizona is an "open" carry state. So long as the weapon is in plain view,
> no license is needed to carry it.
...and even more astounding is that firearms do not need to be
registered here. IN fact all that has to be visible of the gun is a
portion, or a portion of the holster (a throw back to WWII days when
soldiers were coming home with the 'ol flop over style holsters that
completely cover the gun.)
Caric-the-just-a-little-more-useless-info-shaman
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:04:19 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Spike wrote:
> Basically, I think it's going to be SHRII + VRII + RBB2 + clarifications and
> rules tidying.....
>
> (Although it'll only have the RULES from VRII and RBB2, none of the
> equipstuff, and probably in brief).
>
> It's not scheduled for a year or two..... Someone said 1998, so 1999 it is
> then....
From what Steve said it appears that they are shooting for Gencon next
year...which would be about August 10th or so I would imagine. That of
course is a preliminary release time, so expect changes.
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:50:53 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Munchkin man :P
In-Reply-To: <199707211026.EAA03752@******> from "Gurth" at Jul 21,
97 12:22:33 pm
Content-Type: text
Gurth wrote:
|
| David Buehrer said on 17:48/20 Jul 97...
|
| > But, the last version you sent to the list had an error, and you
| > never sent the corrected version :)
|
| Yes, I did... After the mistake (which happened because I confused the
| two Essence costs given on the page with the Reaction Enhancer in
| Cybertechnology) I corrected it and IIRC posted the latest version.
Whoops. I musta gotten confused (or maybe received the posts out of
order). Well then, I'll just have to throw version 2.1 at my players
the next time I run <EGMG>.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:03:45 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
In-Reply-To: <199707211023.EAA03453@******> from "Gurth" at Jul 21,
97 12:22:33 pm
Content-Type: text
Gurth wrote:
|
| Now we're talking about it, what woul VITAS do anyway? SRII gives a
| VITAS-3 a damage of 6D and says sufferers get chills, fever, and vomiting
| until damage gets reduced to Light, but that's it. Doesn't sound like a
| disease that wiped out millions of people to me...
Well, if you take a Deadly and don't receive treatment (first aid),
or don't make a Body(10) test (not likely for your average person),
you'll be dead in a number of minutes equal to your bodyx10. VITAS
killed what, 20% of the population all at once? How many people were
actually affected for it to reach those kind of numbers? Overload
the medical system that much and everybody on the fringe, or who came
in after the medicine ran out... The nasty thing with plagues isn't
that their deadly on an individual basis, but that so many people get
it at once that the medical system can't keep up.
Also, remember the rules on Deadly Wounds and Permanent Damage.
Right from the outset VITAS has a fair chance of doing permanent
damage to its host (again, to the average person). That puts an even
bigger load on the system. And not just the medical system,
everything is going to be affected by that many people being
"scarred" for life (until clonal replacement caim along, and even
then it couldn't do anything for the people that lost attribute
points).
VITAS seriously fucked with the world.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:07:20 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <199707210820.CAA22171@******> from "Simon T. Sailer" at Jul
21,
97 10:19:50 am
Content-Type: text
Simon T. Sailer wrote:
|
| Hi!
| Did you ever notice that in shadowrun unarmed combat the fight is
| over after 5 seconds... the one who scores the first hit wins the
| fight since with the higher target number due to the injury, the
| other one stands no chance... so what does the smart player? through
| anything he has... all the pools, combat and karma, into the first
| attack... then he either has won or lost... its all over after the
| first combat turn. Really makes me sick...
Have you ever been in a real fight (one where either or both sides
now how to fight)? It is over that quickly.
| In order to develope a cool fistfight that lasts for a few minutes, I
| have to break the rules several times.
| Does anyone out there know a solution/does anyone share the same
| experiences? If not, why not?
If you want to make it more cinamatic here's a couple things you can
do. Allow the target of an attack to use as much of his combat pool
as he wants to defend. Award ties to the target. If the target gets
more successes, he doesn't hit the attacker, it just results in the
attack being a failure.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:58:57 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: Mana Storms?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Spike wrote:
>
> |
> | I've been reading source material for adventures based in
> |Australia and come across the term 'Mana Storm'...what are they, I've
> |never heard of them before and I've read most of the Fasa books, have
> |they been made up by someone? anyway what are they and what sort of
> |damage do they do etc,
>
> Have you read "Choose your enemies carefully"?
> Verner sees a few Mana storms in Aussieland when he's after the really
> powerfull focus in Airs(sp?) Rock.....
>
> We'll probably have to wait for an Aussie sourcebook before they get
> explained though.....
>
> I Want to know how they work and what they do as well....
IIRC they exist in Tir na Nog as well. I think that sourcebook explains
them a bit, but I don't have it here with me. Anyone else have info on
this?
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:12:15 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <199707210813.CAA21960@******> from "Simon T. Sailer" at Jul
21,
97 10:12:09 am
Content-Type: text
Simon T. Sailer wrote:
|
| HI!
| Just one simple, not too important question to all those who play
| shadowrun regularly...
| What If a player is missing at one session? Do you let another one
| play his character? Or do you think of a way to let the character
| disappear for some time?
If the character isn't required for the adventure to continue (has
special knowledge or skills) then I do the following. In my game
there are a couple of forces that can magically summon the PCs.
Depending on which PC it is the effects vary. The PC is either
surounded by bands of blue light as they fade away, or else everyone
suddenly realizes that the PC is no longer there and hasn't been for
at least 5-10 minutes and they can't remember when he left. The PCs
return the same way with no memory of their experiences when
summoned. Sometimes they come back wounded.
At some point in the far future the PCs will encounter these forces
face to face.
If the character is required, then we find something else to do (Magic,
Roborally, see a movie, etc).
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 13:21:13 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Physical Adepts
As may or may not be known to the world at large, I think Phys-ads are
biased against in SRII. So, in my quest to give them a helping hand, I
tossed this idea around with my players:
I don't like the fact that a physical adept *has* to initiate to gain more
abilities. It doesn't fit my worldview. For a while, I was giving them a .5
discount to the multiplier for initiation, but 1)They still end up with
ridiculous initiate grades, and 2) it doesn't help all that much.
So I decided to do make buying a magic point worth of physical adept
abilities 15 karma. Flat rate, no changes. (Umm, that's about two runs for
my game, what with individual karma awards.) This does not change the
physical adept's actual magic rating.
If he wants to initiate, the cost for grade 0 is 18 (less if he takes an
ordeal/does it with a group.) Each additional grade of initiation costs
(6+(next grade)*3)-15. (Again, adjust the multiplier as necessary.) A
physical adept may only initiate to a level equal to the number of magic
points worth of powers he has -6 (i.e., his initiate grade is limited by
the amount of magic points he's bought.)
A physical mage buys magic points for his physad side, and initiates *at
full cost* on his magical side. He is *not* limited in grade by the number
of magic points he has gotten. His magic rating is that of his mage side.
If he loses all his mage magic rating, he may then initiate as a physad
does, because that is all he is now.
Any comments?
I believe that this would make physical adepts a little more interesting
and playable without overpowering them.
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 13:06:18 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: question
On Monday, July 21, 1997 05:22, Simon T.
Sailer[SMTP:Simon.Sailer@*IBK.AC.AT] wrote:
> > We generally either leave them out if they weren't essential to the
> > plotline or we're in a bad mood.
> >
> > Lady Jestyr
>
> You leave them out even if the character didn't have time to leave?
> So he just disappears sometimes and reappears later? Well, thats the
> easiest sulution, but the least satisfying one.
In Shadowrun, I try to give a logical explanation of why the PC is not
interacting with the rest of the party. It's also easier in SR than in a
fantasy game.
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:21:55 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Bows and crossbows
In-Reply-To: <199707210642.AAA12691@******> from "Caun Haskins" at Jul
20,
97 01:44:13 am
Content-Type: text
Caun Haskins wrote:
|
| David wrote:
| I disagree. "Free actions are relatively simple, nearly automatic
| actions that require little or no effort to accomplish." Picking up
| an arrow is pretty easy, but nocking(sp?) the thing requires some
| concentration (I have a fair ammount of RL experience on this one).
|
| Wrong! (no offense) but knocking an arrow is natural, I have some
| experience in archery (won a couple kid tourneys) I don't know the SR
| equivenenlt of the skill level (maybe 4/5) at that level maybe lower It
| defiantly should be a free action!
Well, it's not just how easy it is, but how much time it takes in SR
terms, IMO (and I think SR's opinion too, but I've been wrong on that
before :)
Look at the list of Free Actions. Each one takes about 1/10 of a
second. Now the list of Simple Actions. Each one is no longer than
1/2 a second. I don't know about you, but even if I do it perfectly
I can't ready a bow in the time it takes to change gun mode, change
position, fire a weapon, insert a clip, etc. So I think FASA is
being very generous in allowing a character to ready a bow with a
Simple Action. Now, they may be overly generous in allowing a
character to ready a crossbow with a Simple Action. I'd require a
complex action. And that may be the best solution of all, IMHO.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:38:12 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Physical Adepts
In-Reply-To: <199707211718.LAA25988@******> from "Jonathan Hurley" at Jul
21,
97 01:21:13 pm
Content-Type: text
Jonathan Hurley wrote:
|
| So I decided to do make buying a magic point worth of physical adept
| abilities 15 karma. Flat rate, no changes. (Umm, that's about two runs for
| my game, what with individual karma awards.) This does not change the
| physical adept's actual magic rating.
|
| If he wants to initiate, the cost for grade 0 is 18 (less if he takes an
| ordeal/does it with a group.) Each additional grade of initiation costs
| (6+(next grade)*3)-15.
Why the -15? For each grade of initiation he's getting some pretty
good metamagic abilities.
| A physical adept may only initiate to a level equal to the number of magic
| points worth of powers he has -6 (i.e., his initiate grade is limited by
| the amount of magic points he's bought.)
So if a physad that's purchased 2 extra points of physad abilities can only
initiate to grade 2 (just to clarify).
| I believe that this would make physical adepts a little more interesting
| and playable without overpowering them.
I like the idea of PAs being able to purchase more points to spend on
abilities, but I think you should keep the initiation rules is. If a
PA purchases extra points, and then later initiates, then he should
get the points gained for that too (a PA purchases 2 extra points for
30 karma, then initiates over time to grade 2 increasing his Magic by
2 and gets another 2 points to spend on PA abilities).
An easier way may be to allow Physads 1.5 PA Points per point of
Magic. And if a player makes a Priority A Physad, he gets 2 PA
Points per point of Magic (this one has never been tested, just an
idea that rolled out of my left ear).
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:46:25 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Mana Storms?
In-Reply-To: <199707211711.LAA24843@******> from "Caric" at Jul 21,
97 09:58:57 am
Content-Type: text
Caric wrote:
|
| > | I've been reading source material for adventures based in
| > |Australia and come across the term 'Mana Storm'...what are they, I've
| > |never heard of them before and I've read most of the Fasa books, have
| > |they been made up by someone? anyway what are they and what sort of
| > |damage do they do etc,
| >
| > Have you read "Choose your enemies carefully"?
| > Verner sees a few Mana storms in Aussieland when he's after the really
| > powerfull focus in Airs(sp?) Rock.....
|
| IIRC they exist in Tir na Nog as well. I think that sourcebook explains
| them a bit, but I don't have it here with me. Anyone else have info on
| this?
"The dreaded doineann draoidheil, permanent storms of magical energy
that disrupt all magical operations..." The force rating of the
storms is applied to all TN for all magical operations in the area of
the storm. They can also be harnesed by *very* powerful mages, which
can use the energy to temporarily increase their magic pool. The storms
also attract spirits and magical beings.
I don't think their the same thing as the mana storms in Australia.
I got the impression that those storms were dangerous to anything in
their path.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:01:49 -0700
Reply-To: hernandez@********.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: hernandez <hernandez@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Mana Storms?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Spike wrote:
> > | I've been reading source material for adventures based in
> > |Australia and come across the term 'Mana Storm'...what are they, I've
> > |never heard of them before and I've read most of the Fasa books, have
> > |they been made up by someone? anyway what are they and what sort of
> > |damage do they do etc,
> Caric wrote:
> IIRC they exist in Tir na Nog as well. I think that sourcebook explains
> them a bit, but I don't have it here with me. Anyone else have info on
> this?
<Tir Na Nog pg. 145>
They are called "Doineann Draoidheil" and are permanent storms of magical
energy that disrupt magical operations. The Force Rating applies as a
modifier to TN's for all magical operations. Initiates of the Order of the
Sun, Moon, and Stars are the only ones potentially powerful enough to
control it. Any Initiate attempting a magical operation near or within the
storm may make a Magic Test against a TN equal to 2x the Force Rating of
the storm, -1 per 2 grades of initiation rounding up. If unsuccessful
Initiate suffers a 9D Drain.
To determine how much energy he can use, he rolls one die for each success
in his Magic Test, subtracting 1 from each roll. Dice are then totaled up
to the Force Rating of the storm. The Initiate adds that number of dice to
his Magic Pool. That represents the total he can use in magical or astral
operations. This bonus lasts for a number of minutes determined the same
way. Once power is let go, Initiate suffers a 9D Drain.
Spirits and magical beings are also attracted by the storms and a prudent
Initiate always brings a bodyguard and a friendly spirit or two to help
watch his back. Grade 6 Initiates are said to brave the storms as part of a
Quest Ordeal.
Hope this helps
MoonShadow
In the begining Man created God;
and in the image of Man created he him
hernandez@********.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 15:15:16 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Things that always annoyed you in SR2....
In-Reply-To: <ufracv6k0g.fsf@*******.hanse.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In message <ufracv6k0g.fsf@*******.hanse.de>, "Shadowrun ML demon
<shadowrn-ml@*******.hanse.de>" <shadowrn-ml@*******.HANSE.DE> writes
>"Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK> writes:
>> It's nasty, but far from being utterly and totally fatal. WP casualties
>> survive quite nicely today.
>
>Uhm - I find this pretty hard to believe, I have to admit. As far as I
>know having about 40% of your skin burned to third degree is already
>lethal and even hot water can cause third degree burns without any
>problems. So something that is sticky and burns a few hundred degrees
>(what IS the exact temperature, btw.) is causing third degree burns
>within fractions of a second... someone surviving being splashed with
>that stuff (without any special equipment, of course). Maybe if you
>only got a few drops... but whatever has been hit got a third degree
>burn, so if more than 40% of the body has been hit you are dead.
Sure: but look at the size of a WP grenade. It's the size of a soft-
drink can. If you're ten feet from it when it bursts, you're going to
catch a few chunks, not get covered over 40% of your body.
Secondly, the WP has to burn through your clothing and equipment.
Webbing gear and body armour will stop WP burns nicely, as will a
helmet.
Even your fatigues are fire-retardant (or at least British Army combats
are) so small pieces of WP won't turn you into a human torch.
>> Remember, it's not just you: you have team-mates to help you and they,
>> too, can administer treatment,
>
>Yeah - but there is hardly anything you can do once a certain amount
>of skin has been burned... at least not nowadays. I could imagine,
>though, that in the future you'd have tanks with some special liquid
>that could take over the functions of the skin until the body had a
>chance to regenerate.
Again, the problem is getting enough of the skin burned.
>> They'll only suck the flame into the engine compartment, if that. WP
>> isn't effective against any military vehicle tougher than a truck (even
>> Land Rovers can shrug it off)
>
>Uhm. So what happens to the electronics and the rubber & plastic parts
>of the engine when they get exposed to flames that burn at several
>hundret degrees... my experience is that plastic, rubber and
>electronics don't really like this.
The engine doesn't get directly exposed to the flame. Look at some of
the news from Northern Ireland: we've been building Land Rovers to shrug
off petrol bombs for decades. The biggest problem is seeing where you're
going through the flames :)
>> Disagree. The burning damage is more realistic. Remember, unless you're
>> carrying the grenade when it explodes, you're only being hit by a few
>> pieces, not coated head-to-toe.
>
>O.k. - first: We are not talking about the explosion damage, right ?
>The grenade affects an area of 10 meters diameter (considering a loss
>of power niveau of 1/.5m - I wasn't able to find any other statement
>about the area covered by a WP grenade) and things in the center most
>probably get pretty much splashed... otherwise the reach wouldn't be
>as far.
If it's right next to you, you're dead.
If it's ten feet away, you're in terrible pain and out of combat for
some time... but you'll almost certainly survive.
>So I can imagine that people/objects outside the core of the explosion
>have a good chance of survival (although they probably get seriously
>hurt), but in the core of the explosion ? I don't think so. A damage
>code of "L" for burning white phosphorus on your skin is far too
>low.
By standard SR rules, a fragmentation grenade at zero range cannot kill
you...
>Of course I know that you have more knowledge about weapons than I do,
>but if you say people "survive easily" through an attack by white
>phosphorus I'd like to know more about the factors that led to his
>survival.
Basically, the fact that WP is less lethal than is widely supposed.
It _does_ create horrific, incapacitating injuries that scare the hell
out of anyone nearby, and it does present significant challenges for
medical treatment, but Falklands experience (where both sides made some
use of WP weapons) indicated that fatalities were low.
It's easier to treat and recover from burns, than it is from deep
fragmentation wounds.
--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:46:34 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: Physical Adepts
On Monday, July 21, 1997 13:38, David Buehrer[SMTP:dbuehrer@****.ORG]
wrote:
> Jonathan Hurley wrote:
> |
> | So I decided to do make buying a magic point worth of physical adept
> | abilities 15 karma. Flat rate, no changes. (Umm, that's about two runs
for
> | my game, what with individual karma awards.) This does not change the
> | physical adept's actual magic rating.
> |
> | If he wants to initiate, the cost for grade 0 is 18 (less if he takes
an
> | ordeal/does it with a group.) Each additional grade of initiation costs
> | (6+(next grade)*3)-15.
>
> Why the -15? For each grade of initiation he's getting some pretty
> good metamagic abilities.
Because he already bought the point of magic that the initiate grade would
normally give him. (He does *not* get the point of magic from initiation to
add to his PA abilities. Sorry if I wasn't clear)
> | A physical adept may only initiate to a level equal to the number of
magic
> | points worth of powers he has -6 (i.e., his initiate grade is limited
by
> | the amount of magic points he's bought.)
>
> So if a physad that's purchased 2 extra points of physad abilities can
only
> initiate to grade 2 (just to clarify).
Yes. (For the reason I clarified above)
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:16:42 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Greg Childress <greg@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Spike wrote
>I imagine that's WHY they bought T$R...
>So their T$R subsidiary can sell RPGs whilst the main company still sells
>Magic the addiction.....
Actually, the reason is probably that the sales of M:tG have been dropping
steadily for a while so the company is looking to diversify to avoid falling
apart. The lads at WotC took a survey of the gaming companies and found one
that was faltering but had really good name-recognition and bought it.
According to Mike Mulvilhill <sp?> (I can't pronounce that name for anything
anyway which put me in the position of having to call him "Mike" in
conversation from the start, he didn't seem to mind too much.) TSR would
have probably been out of business by now or soon had the acquisition not
occurred and his take on the buy-out, which I agree with, is that with this
in mind the purchase was a good thing. The collapse of AD&D would have been
a blow to the entire industry as it is the flagship game. It is the fact
that WotC did have to look around the industry to find a company to buy that
is sparking most of the rumors.
I just got back from origins and I have to say that the atmosphere was kind
of odd. WotC seemed to be more quiet and unobtrusive than usual. In fact
the only real effect they had on the convention was the annoying and
pathetic fourteen year-old Magic zombies wandering around and pitifully
asking if you wanted to play this game (clutching deck) as if they were some
sort of weird beggars and the increase in weight the average attendee was
lugging. The con had a real aura of growth, as if the sale of TSR made
everyone realize that no game is permanent and fostered interest in new
games.
<greg>
noir rocks!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:26:54 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Bull wrote:
> Also, I don;t keep track of ammo, and don;t make my players do that either,
> except in extreme situations... Thus going for the John Woo Automatic
> Reloads in less than a second...;]
Hmmm...I think that running out of ammo makes it waaaayy more fun. :)
Caric-the-*click*-frag!!!-shaman
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:37:05 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Barbie wrote:
>
> At 18-Jul-97 wrote Caric:
>
> >Us either...I think I had the highest total ever with somewhere in the
> >neighborhood of 200.
>
> As I have mention at the beginning of the week I have just crossed
> 500 karma :-]
Right, I was just pointing out the highest total in our group, and Caric
is dead now anyway so I think the highest total is 5 right now. :)
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:39:43 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: White phosphorus (Re: [SR3] Things that always annoyed you in
SR
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Gurth wrote:
> > > It's nasty, but far from being utterly and totally fatal. WP casualties
> > > survive quite nicely today.
> >
> > Uhm - I find this pretty hard to believe, I have to admit. As far as I
> > know having about 40% of your skin burned to third degree is already
> > lethal
>
> 80%, I thought it was. At any rate I'd rather not find out :)
Either way, how would you like top be the guy who has to decide what
percentage of someones' body is covered by burns? <shudder> Not fun.
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:54:38 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkin man :P
Comments: To: trrkt@******.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:10 AM 7/20/97 +0000, Mike (Leszek Karlik) wrote:
>Hmmm...
>
>I've been reading through the Paranoid Animals of NA, and saw the
>Speed Samurai archetype...
>
>What a wussie... :P
<snip>
Of course, what you're suggesting isn't a starting character, and the speed
elf is.
Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/
The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton
Gencon count down: 16 days
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:52:14 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Paolo Marcucci wrote:
> It's been a while from when I read some posts about GenCon. I definitely
> will be there on 7th, who else?
>
> GRANITE, you still mantain this list?
Well since Granite is off to part unknown (well Texas) Let me update for
him.
Okay AKAIK:
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Nice people going to GenCon:
>
> FASAMike [If there are enough hours in the day]
> GRANITE
> Mike Broadwater
> Bull
> Fro (maybe)
> The Bookworm
> Gossamer
> Mike Paff
> Caric
> Court Schuett
> Adam (another one or Fro?)
> Nick Van
> Droopy
> Czar Eggbert
> Paolo & Armanda (my gf)
> Loki
> NightLife
> Onyx
> Smilin' Ted
> The Digital Mage aka Grant Erswell
> Steve K.
Topcat (I believe I saw somewhere that he would be there)
Kabael
...that's about it so far...anymore corrections?
Caric-the-temporary-Granite-stand-in-shaman
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 13:00:30 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: Mana Storms?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
David Buehrer wrote:
>
> Caric wrote:
> |
> | > | I've been reading source material for adventures based in
> | > |Australia and come across the term 'Mana Storm'...what are they, I've
> | > |never heard of them before and I've read most of the Fasa books, have
> | > |they been made up by someone? anyway what are they and what sort of
> | > |damage do they do etc,
> | >
> | > Have you read "Choose your enemies carefully"?
> | > Verner sees a few Mana storms in Aussieland when he's after the really
> | > powerfull focus in Airs(sp?) Rock.....
> |
> | IIRC they exist in Tir na Nog as well. I think that sourcebook explains
> | them a bit, but I don't have it here with me. Anyone else have info on
> | this?
>
> "The dreaded doineann draoidheil, permanent storms of magical energy
> that disrupt all magical operations..." The force rating of the
> storms is applied to all TN for all magical operations in the area of
> the storm. They can also be harnesed by *very* powerful mages, which
> can use the energy to temporarily increase their magic pool. The storms
> also attract spirits and magical beings.
>
> I don't think their the same thing as the mana storms in Australia.
> I got the impression that those storms were dangerous to anything in
> their path.
That could certainly by possible, but the ones in the Tir were the only
think close that I could think of that would have stats in SR.
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 17:57:54 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
In-Reply-To: <01BC940A.17C68040@********.u96.stevens-tech.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In message <01BC940A.17C68040@********.u96.stevens-tech.edu>, Jonathan
Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU> writes
>Howdy. (This is *not* a cue for the Bull-Bot to Bot me. <looks left, looks
>right>) Anyway, I was BSing with one of my players on the ride home from
>seeing Contact (Good flick) and wandered into this thought: Most weapons
>that fire Saboted ammo today are smoothbore. That being Tank guns and
>Shotguns. Then I looked in my handy copy of 3G3 and noted that normal
>bullets are 3:1 l:w, while most saboted rounds are 10:1 l:w. IIRC, this is
>because long-arm penetrators are unstable if you spin them. (Example: Take
>a top and a pencil. Spin them, drop them. Which hits the ground on its
>side?)
Point of history.
Armour piercing ammo evolved steadily. Up to the 1940s, AP rounds were
just full-calibre chunks of steel. Larger AP rounds might have burster
charges and base fuses, but most tank and anti-tank guns were 37mm-40mm
in calibre and didn't have room.
As tank armour improved, the AT guns got bigger. It was well known that
armour piercing performance depended on how fast the projectile hit the
armour, how hard it was, and how heavy it was. Thus, AT guns got longer
barrels, fired at higher velocities, and the rounds began to be made of
higher-carbon hardened steel (harder) or tungsten (heavier and harder).
It was also noticed that, to make a shell travel fast in the barrel and
get the highest muzzle velocity, it should be a large-calibre
lightweight projectile. Thus, HVAP (High Velocity Armour Piercing)
appeared: a light-metal projectile with a steel or tungsten core, that
achieved spectacular velocity.
However, to retain its velocity in flight, the projectile should be as
small and dense as possible: HVAP lost velocity and accuracy rapidly at
longer ranges.
One solution was "squeezebore", where the projectile's hard dense core
was surrounded by skirts of aluminium and the barrel tapered at the
muzzle: thus you got a large light round in the barrel, and a small
dense one in flight. This limited the gun (couldn't fire HE rounds) and
also compromised accuracy.
Some bright spark replaced the tapered end of the barrel, with a skirt
(or 'sabot') around the penetrator that fell away outside the barrel:
hence, Armour Piercing, Discarding Sabot.
This was still fired from rifled guns, and the penetrator had a L/D
ratio of about 4:1 to 5:1.
Further advances in materials and metallurgy led to the switch to long-
rod penetrators for tank guns, having L/D ratios of 10:1 or higher.
These cannot be spin-stabilised, so the penetrator is fin-stabilised.
Thus the modern Armour Piercing, Fin Stabilised, Discarding Sabot rounds
(APFSDS) used by most tanks today.
>So I thought about how this applied to Shadowrun. OK, shotguns have no
>problem. But what about rifled small-arms? How do they deal with APDS ammo?
>I thought of three ways. One, (the easy way) was to make sure that the
>sabot did not expand enough to engage the rifling of the barrel.
Bad move. Loses you accuracy and velocity.
>Two,
>placing inserts in the rifling of the barrel to change the weapon into a
>pseudo-smoothbore.
Why not just change barrels? Doing this for a 5.56mm rifle could be
interesting.
>Three, replacing the barrel with a smoothbore barrel.
Oh, you thought of it too :)
>Four, not letting the PCs have APDS <g>.
Five, which is what the British Army does today for its 120mm rifled
tank gun: put a slipping driving band on the sabot. It skids over the
rifling rather than engaging in it, and so only a very slight spin
(which helps the sabot to discard cleanly) is imparted to the
projectile.
--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:12:18 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Collins" <scollins@**.UML.EDU>
Subject: Re: I guess it had to happen sometime;
In-Reply-To: <199707200314.XAA01810@****.provide.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sat, 19 Jul 1997, Justin Pinnow wrote:
->> From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
->> Date: Friday, July 18, 1997 1:57 AM
->
->> indulge a Shadowrun addiction and a Magic addiciton. Some of my freinds
->> that are really into magic have sunk hundreds of $$ into that game. If
->> had sunk that much I would have an almost complete library.
->
->I had a similar problem a few years ago. I sunk a few hundred dollars into
->MtG and had a very hard time keeping up with their quarterly updates.
->Thus, I gave away (yes, GAVE) my several hundred dollar MtG collection.
->
I have never had this problem. So far I have spent just under $300 on
MTG (about 1/3 of what I have spent between SR and Battletech) and
that is only because my original $180 set was stolen out of my car and
I needed to replace it. Can I beat the guys who have spent $10,000
(yes I know a few who did) on their sets every time. No, but I do
manage to beat them about 40% of the Time. My problem with the game is
that I can't find anyone to play with now. All of my friends got the
addiction and then got over it and now they won't play because they
are afraid that they will become re addicted.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 17:04:49 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Collins" <scollins@**.UML.EDU>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <232DA9B56D3@********.uibk.ac.at>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Mon, 21 Jul 1997, Simon T. Sailer wrote:
->HI!
->Just one simple, not too important question to all those who play
->shadowrun regularly...
->What If a player is missing at one session? Do you let another one
->play his character? Or do you think of a way to let the character
->disappear for some time?
->
->If somebody else plays the character, aren't ther problems with the
->stats since the character sheet in question should be missing as
->well?
->
->Ok, I'ts really not too important, but anyway, Id like to know how
->others play...
->
That depends on where we are in the story. If we are just about to
enter a combat or inside the Renraku complex when we have to call it
quits then by all means that character will be there next session. But
if they are still in the legwork part of the run well then that
character will have a close relative die or some such to get him out
for the night. I overcome the character sheet problem by making the
characters leave coppies of their characters with me. If for some
reason they didn't and the character can't be written out then at the
first oppourtunity the character will be killed (to bad for the player
he knew the rules). If I do have the sheet then he will be run by
another played with me holding veto power on any actions if I think he
is being played out of character (no making the absent guys character
charge the machine gun nest to cover the rest of the teams escape).
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:08:58 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In-Reply-To: <33D3BDEE.33B4@********.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:52 7/21/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Well since Granite is off to part unknown (well Texas) Let me update for
>him.
>Okay AKAIK:
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> Nice people going to GenCon:
...
>...that's about it so far...anymore corrections?
Yup..strike my name, barring my winning the lottery. Don't have the bucks
to make it this year.
Next year, however, everything changes <g>
-Adam
Who wants to go, damnit.
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
GC3.1 GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 17:18:57 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@***01.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970721150858.006c28d0@****.lis.ab.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
On 21 Jul 97 at 15:08, Adam J wrote:
> Yup..strike my name, barring my winning the lottery. Don't have the bucks
> to make it this year.
Oh well, so much for the unsupervised party we were going to have on
the list..... :)
> Next year, however, everything changes <g>
For me too. I'm there.
--
===DREKHEAD==================================drekhead@***.net===
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
================================================================
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot
stomping on a human face...forever. -George Orwell
----------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 17:17:14 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: question
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:56 AM 7/20/97 -0600, Caun Haskins wrote these timeless words:
>> Brainwashing is bad.
>>
> Copy that! (a bit OT though) i realy wasn't talking about that.
>Bull's idea of NPC ing them works ok as well, still think getting rid
>of them for this session is bes though.
>brains are terible things to mess with I rely dislike that false memory
>spell in the hands of Johnson, that sucks!
>
Agreed.though fortunately I haven't run across this one (and with our
willpowers, It's doubtful it WILL work, unless done by a Dragon or one of
the IE, in which case, I WAT to forget...:))
>Caun :}
>
>P.S. hey Bull when do you sleep? I don't think you ever stop posting,
>just wondering.
>
Ummm... yes? No? maybe?
Heh... Actually, I don;t sleep much, and when I do, it's fairly odd
hours...:] Right now I'm hard at work on Chapter 6 of Quicksilver
Lightning so that everyone can stop bugging me for more of it. I'll
probably stay up long enough to finish up at least one more chapter, edit a
couple more projects for the next issue of the TSS (Gods... This could be
the All Bull issue, if Fro uses everything I hand to him for Issue 4 :)).
Ok, ok... I'm shutting up and getting back to work...:]
Bull-the-never-sleeping-Ork-Decker
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:51:55 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Totems
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 21 Jul 1997 03:13:32 PDT."
<12595.199707211013@*****.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
>|YOu know, Ever since I joined this list you guys have talked about the
>|Discworld books... But for the life of me I can't find them anywhere! The
>|only Discworld anything I'd seen or heard of before joining the list was
>|the video game...
>|
>|Hmmm... Maybe time to order some books?
>
>One word.... Yes!
>
>If you want to get them in the correct order, it's:
>The Colour of Magic, The Light Fantastic, Equal Rites, Mort, Wyrd Sisters
>(now a Channel 4 cartoon ;) ), errrr.... HELP.... There're so many I've
>forgotten the order......
Umm.. My suggestion if you _really_ want to get them in order is: buy
them all at once and read the "other books" listings.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 21:26:04 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Elveses, Goblins and other stuff
In-Reply-To: <yam7140.515.136475920@****.amigaworld.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <yam7140.515.136475920@****.amigaworld.com>, Barbie
<barbie@**********.COM> rambled on endlessly about Dark Conspiracy (Was
- Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
>At 20-Jul-97 wrote Avenger:
>
>
>>By the Tolkien mythology, which seems a strong influence in the fantasy
>>genre, orks are a race derived from Elves. They are in fact Sauron's
>>corruption created from his desire to become like the creator. He
>>used/uses Elves to create the Orks. Orks, however are more than capable
>>of breeding, and hence you get variations on the theme.
>
>Not truly wrong but not truly right.
>Morgoth created the Orcs from the Elves trough genetic manipulation
>of Elves .
Sorry, my fault, the thread made me think of the breeding pits below
Mount Doom, and thus Sauron, who was Morgoths' favoured (IIRC)) so I
made the connection and the brain screwed it up - again. :) The main
problem with reading a whole pile of "epic" fantasy novels is the
similarity with the plots tends to confuse the mind occassionally. I
made a similar mistake once in another list where I confused Sauron with
another dark enemy from a different series of books - something I'm
particularly good at - confusing things that is. :)
--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:05:45 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: WoTC on TV (was: Re: WOTC/FASA)
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 21 Jul 1997 02:48:15 PDT."
<1.5.4.32.19970721094815.008459dc@********.co.za>
>OK as an earnest role player and a fanatical card gamer I would like to know
>where the Magic=Munchkin link even begins. Please.
It comes from the only _real_ way to win against a hardcore M:tG player:
Spend him to death.
That's right, you need to spend more on your deck than he/she/it does.
Some strategy in choosing the cards is helpful, but the main thing is
to buy all the really expensive stuff.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:04:05 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:26 PM 7/21/97 -0700, Caric wrote these timeless words:
>Bull wrote:
>> Also, I don;t keep track of ammo, and don;t make my players do that either,
>> except in extreme situations... Thus going for the John Woo Automatic
>> Reloads in less than a second...;]
>
>Hmmm...I think that running out of ammo makes it waaaayy more fun. :)
>
Yeah, but... I'm lazy, and so are my players...
If you've ever played the Star Wars RPG, there is a concept in that game
called the WIld Die. basically, it's an off color die that you roll for
pretty much every dice test, even if you only need to roll one die, you
roll that one.
The effects are varied in SW, depending on the GM, but basically rolling a
1 is BAD, and rolling 6 is GOOD. Since SW doesn't use an open ended d6, I
always used a 6 on the wild die as an open ended 6, while on a one,
something really bad happened. This varied depending on what I wanted to
make happen, but most often it meant that they ran out of ammo (Those power
cells on blasters are SO darned unpredictable...;] ).
Now, I've been thinking of instituting something similar for SR, though I'm
not sure exactly what a 6 result could be since there already are open
ended sixes... Howeverm a 1 could definately mean something like out of
ammo, or a gun jam...;]
>Caric-the-*click*-frag!!!-shaman
>
Heh... i like it...;]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 08:10:58 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970721052827.2fc7b8a6@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> Agreed.though fortunately I haven't run across this one (and with our
> willpowers, It's doubtful it WILL work, unless done by a Dragon or one of
> the IE, in which case, I WAT to forget...:))
Huh. The guy it happened to was a PhysAd with Willpower 6 or 7 and the
adept power Iron Will (or whatever it's called). Don't feel TOO safe. :)
Lady Jestyr
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:20:45 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mike.paff@*****.COM
Subject: Re: The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma)
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
>
> If you've ever played the Star Wars RPG, there is a concept in that game
> called the WIld Die.
>
> The effects are varied in SW, depending on the GM, but basically rolling a
> 1 is BAD, and rolling 6 is GOOD.
>
> Now, I've been thinking of instituting something similar for SR, though I'm
> not sure exactly what a 6 result could be since there already are open
> ended sixes... Howeverm a 1 could definately mean something like out of
> ammo, or a gun jam...;]
>
Unless your players don't take care of their guns, or they are full-auto freaks,
I think this would cause your BAD result to happen much to often. Statistically,
every sixth time someone fires a gun, it will jam, run out of ammo, etc., which
I think might be a little too often to be believable.
Perhaps if a one comes up, reroll the Wild Die, and depending on the situation
and the number rolled, you get varied results.
For example:
For a standard heavy pistol with a reasonable sized clip:
1 = Jam
2 = Out of ammo
3-6 = no effect
For a revolver or magazine fed weapon:
1 = Jam
2-5(or 6) = Out of ammo
For an LMG on full auto:
1 = Jam/smoking barrel/ammo spontaneously cooks off
2-5 Out of ammo
If the gun has been poorly maintained, or the ammo is of questionable quality,
increase the chance of a jam/misfire.
Mike Paff
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 08:23:04 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970721174149.2fc7fce2@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> The effects are varied in SW, depending on the GM, but basically rolling a
> 1 is BAD, and rolling 6 is GOOD. Since SW doesn't use an open ended d6, I
> always used a 6 on the wild die as an open ended 6, while on a one,
> something really bad happened. This varied depending on what I wanted to
> make happen, but most often it meant that they ran out of ammo (Those power
> cells on blasters are SO darned unpredictable...;] ).
Heh... one of my friends had really bad luck with his wild die. :) He
blew up 6 or 7 blaster powerpacks in a row. Very professional, tough
bounty hunter - with a gun that keeps exploding. :)
I started calling him the Big Bad Bounty Hunter... until he hit me. :)
> "Gen Con, here I come!"
> -- Me
I hate you. :)
Lady Jestyr
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 08:29:47 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma)
In-Reply-To: <199707212220.PAA08872@*******.>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> Perhaps if a one comes up, reroll the Wild Die, and depending on the situation
> and the number rolled, you get varied results.
>
> For a standard heavy pistol with a reasonable sized clip:
> 1 = Jam
> 2 = Out of ammo
> 3-6 = no effect
I don't think Out of Ammo should be included... "Yep, I pull out my
Manhawk. Check it's loaded. Yup? Okay... I run into the Stuffer Shack
and yell 'Give me all your money!' I shoot a customer to make my point."
<rolling dice> "Okay... you're out of ammo."
"WHAT???"
Lady Jestyr
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 08:37:52 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: A Li'l Ole Question
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I know this thread has been covered many times before, so replies can go
by private email...
What movies would everyone recommend for Shadowrun? And what's
"Shadowrunny" (ew!) about them?
Lady Jestyr
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 19:05:21 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: SR-type movies (was: A Li'l Ole Question)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
> Date: Monday, July 21, 1997 6:37 PM
> I know this thread has been covered many times before, so replies can go
> by private email...
That wouldn't be any fun... :)
> What movies would everyone recommend for Shadowrun? And what's
> "Shadowrunny" (ew!) about them?
STRANGE DAYS is a good precurser to Shadowrun. It gives you a feel for the
world at the turn of the century and the tension that is growing. It also
covers simsense and gives a solid view of corruption within the police,
drug/simsense pushing, the underground world of music and clubs, and many
other things that capture the true flavor of the Shadowrun universe. This
is my favorite Shadowrun-type movie. (Primarily because it captures the
feel of the universe better than any other movie I have seen, IMO, and
because Angela Bassett kicks 31 flavors of ass....) :)
SNEAKERS is based around a corporate infiltration that can easily be viewed
as a Shadowrun, but it lacks the atmosphere of the Shadowrun universe (it's
set in the present day). It's a good movie for watching a run from start
to finish and what takes place throughout.
BLADE RUNNER ....well, need I say more? This is THE classic movie for this
genre.
JOHHNY NUEMONIC (sp?) covers some of the feel for the universe, as well as
some of the hardware involved (cyberwear). The movie is sometimes reviewed
as cheesy, and I am inclined to agree to a point. However, I believe some
things are very well done. For example: they show a day in the life of a
street doc, they explore the use of a monofiliment whip (even though it
glows), and (most importantly) they discuss how being too wired (reflex
enhanced) can get you a bad reputation on the streets. Take the movie with
a grain of salt, but I would still recommend renting it.
That's all that come to mind at the moment.
Enjoy :)
> Lady Jestyr
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 19:12:42 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Walker of Shadows <OABBrother@***.COM>
Subject: [SR3] Flames (sort of)
I, personally have had enough of SR3 in my E-mail box and would like to
inform the rest of you people that nothing even coming close to it will be
accepted.
Flames and carp will be thrown out as well.
Walker of Shadows.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:25:00 MST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Denzil Kruse <dkruse@***.AZ05.BULL.COM>
Subject: Re: SR-type movies (was: A Li'l Ole Question)
> What movies would everyone recommend for Shadowrun? And what's
> "Shadowrunny" (ew!) about them?
Mission: Impossible, obviously. I especially liked Tom Cruise's sleight of
hand with the CD. I also liked the idea of the disavowed list, and Tom
going to recruit them.
Heat: This movie, with Robert Dinero, Al Pacino, and Val Kilmer, didn't look
very good at first, but when I watched it, I thought it was great. These
guys struck me as a very professional team and I enjoyed seeing them work
together. Course, they didn't have much conscience about killing people who
got in their way, but it was interesting seeing them operate. I really
hated the ending. It just didn't seem right - I think Hollywood just
doesn't like to make movies where the criminals get away with it.
Congo: This movie pretty much sucked, but I did like the beginning part
where they are trying to make it to their jungle destination. Dealing with
funding for the trip, negotiating with small country governments, and border
running and hiring mercenary guides.
The Professional: The old-hit-man-trying-to-quit story, but this one was
really good. Starring Jean Reno, the evil helicopter pilot from Mission:
Impossible.
Disorganized Crime: I don't think this movie did very well at the box
office, but I loved it. A criminal (Corbin Bernson) goes to a small town in
Montana and decides to hit the bank. He sends letters out to a bunch of
specialists: car driver/stealer (Lou Diamond Philips), a bank vault opener,
a security/demolitionist (Fred Gywne), and a weapons specialist. But, two
cops from Newark (Ed O'Neil) capture Corbin Bernson right after he mails the
letters, so the rest show up and don't know what to do. Meanwhile, Corbin
escapes, and wanders the countryside, with the Newark cops bumbling after
him. The criminals also bumble around trying to raise money to get one of
them (an alcoholic) out of jail for drunk driving. Corbin was the leader,
and without any leadership these guys argued all the time. It was a really
funny movie, and fun to see these criminals ply their trade.
Denzil Kruse
d.kruse@****.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:31:15 -0700
Reply-To: gdeych@********.att.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gregory Deych <gdeych@********.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: SR-type movies (was: A Li'l Ole Question)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Justin Pinnow wrote:
>
> > From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
> > Date: Monday, July 21, 1997 6:37 PM
>
> > What movies would everyone recommend for Shadowrun? And what's
> > "Shadowrunny" (ew!) about them?
>
I always thought that "HEAT" was quite SR-like.
--
gdeych@********.att.net
Please remove "NOSPAM" from the e-mail address before
answering.
His eyes were eggs of unstable crystal, vibrating with a
frequency whose name was rain and the sound of trains,
suddenly sprouting in a humming forest of hair-fine glass
spines.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:40:52 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:52 PM 7/21/97 -0700, Caric wrote:
>Paolo Marcucci wrote:
>> It's been a while from when I read some posts about GenCon. I definitely
>> will be there on 7th, who else?
>Topcat (I believe I saw somewhere that he would be there)
Yep, and I'm going for free! *high 5's Mikes Broadwater & Nelson* ;^D
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 17:42:58 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In-Reply-To: <199707212115.RAA15485@www.ctghub.com>;
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 17:18 7/21/97 +0000, you wrote:
>On 21 Jul 97 at 15:08, Adam J wrote:
>
>> Yup..strike my name, barring my winning the lottery. Don't have the bucks
>> to make it this year.
>
>Oh well, so much for the unsupervised party we were going to have on
>the list..... :)
Well, I have good news and bad news.
Good news: I will be going away for at least a week sometime in August.
Bad news: I will most likely be appointing a deputy Assistant Fearless Leader.
<Big Asshole Evil Grin>
-Adam
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
GC3.1 GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 20:45:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: [Sorta OT] A new game and advice
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
OK, this really isn't the list for it, I know, but... I trust your
jusdgements and advice (go figure...:)).
Anyways, starting tomorrow, I'm running an AD&D campiagn, specifically one
set in teh Forgotten Realms campign setting. I'm not sure yet how many
players I'll have, but the majority of them have little to no RPG
experience. the core of this group is a bunch of friends that play M:TG,
and now they think they're ready to take a step into RPG's.
One of the guys, Rob, has read some of the TSR FR novels (And the ones that
sparked his desire to play AD&D was the Azure Bonds trilogy which I lent
him). ROb has a little RPG experiance with Robotech from when he was in
high School (He ahsn't played anything like this in about 6 years), and
several of them play Computer Hack & Slash like Doom, Dungeon Keeper, and
the like.
I'm only marginally familiar with the FR setting, but since they offered to
shell out a bunch of cash for the campign settings and a few other books, I
figured I could accomidate.
One thing that is drawing them to this game is the magic, and the high
adventure that is seen in the novels, and as such I plan to run a campign
like that. Granted, it will probably end up a power game. BUt I've seen
low power AD&D games, and they just aren't that much fun. AD&D was meant
to be about adventure, magic and glory, and if that means a touch of
powergaming, so be it.
Plus, I know that teaching these guys to roleplay overnight will be a nigh
impossible task. The first step is learning how to play RPG's. From
there, I can develop their characters. I can think of a half dozen other
games I'd rather run for new players (Star Wars and Shadowrun being the top
two, with marvel Superheroes in close third:)), but I haven't done any AD&D
in quite a while, so... I think this could be kinda fun, going back to my
roots.
Plus, I want to run Keep on the Borderlands again. i think every gamer
should get a copy of it (YOu can find them all over) and play it through
once. It's sort of like an initiation rite. You'ld be hard pressed to
find many gamers that have played more than 10 years but HAVEN'T played
KotB, especially if they started, like most of us did, with D&D. :]:]
Anyways, here's the point of this post. What the hell do I do after that?
It's been far too long since i ran AD&D, and more importantly, I want to
eventually ween these players into more of a roleplaying atmosphere
eventually. How would you suggest doing this? What would you do in a
situation like this (Other than try to convice them to play SR. Maybe
after the card game comes out I can transfer them from Magic, to SR CCG,
then to SR RPG, but until them, this is what they want to play, and it's
either this or play cards again...:)).
Anyways, thanks, and feel free to take this private e-mail if the list
feels this isn;t an appropriate topic...;]
Bull-the-how-did-I-get-roped-into-THIS??-Ork-Decker
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 23:31:28 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: :-(
In-Reply-To: <33D3BA61.736C@********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 21-Jul-97 wrote Caric:
>Right, I was just pointing out the highest total in our group, and Caric
>is dead now anyway so I think the highest total is 5 right now. :)
Sad to hear this its alwasy painfull to loss a character especialy if he
had gone so far.
my he rest in peace for eternity
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 02:11:24 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <232DA9B56D3@********.uibk.ac.at>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 21-Jul-97 wrote Simon T. Sailer:
>HI!
>Just one simple, not too important question to all those who play
>shadowrun regularly...
>What If a player is missing at one session? Do you let another one
>play his character? Or do you think of a way to let the character
>disappear for some time?
We usualy say the character in question is out to do something of its own.
Maybe family biz or learning or so.
And if someone wants to contact the character in question the GM
points to the telephone and says call him/her.
>If somebody else plays the character, aren't ther problems with the
>stats since the character sheet in question should be missing as
>well?
Beside noone is allowed to play a character from someone else, no.
We have all characters of our group on disk in our playing area, so no
missing stats.
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 20:57:36 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 04:52 AM 7/12/97 -0400, Deosyne wrote these timeless words:
>Hey kids, how's life? Had to do a brief stint in rehab for a bitty
>relapse of the Crystal Entity, but I'm back. Ditched the WebTV unit and
>finally assembled my 'puter, so g'head and bitch if the column width is
>off. :) I'll fix it. BTW Gurth: about time to change the block in yer
>sig; the geeks have probably found a way passed it. :) So what new toys
>have the lovely folks at FASA dropped out in the passed couple months;
><hopeful>RBB2???</hopeful> One can dream.
>
>Deosyne (Shawn Baumgartner)
>
Hoi Shawn! Welcome back!!! :]
Glad to see you've managed to get a real system...:] (Web TV makes for a
nice toy, but...:))
Anyways, to answer your question...
The newest product from FASA was Target:UCAS, released this month. It
covers Bosten and Detroit, both aparentlyy "Hot Spots" following the death
of President Dunky... It also has a section on Chicago, and updates Bug City.
More importantly, however, Granite, Fro, Spike, and Myself get a Guest
appearence in the book! Yay!! :] Look for Bull, "The Best Ork Decker you
never met" :]:]
And now, for the BOT :]
+++++ BULL-BOT ACTIVATED
+++++ AUTO GREET INITIATED
Hello there, and Welcome Back list-member Deosyne! Welcome Back to the
Shadowrn Mailing List!
It's a great place, with good people and great discussion! hope ya like mail!
+++++ AUTO OFF TOPIC RANDOM GENERATOR v3.0 INITIATED
+++++ TOPIC #391
Why do Hot dogs come in packages of 10, while Hot Dog Buns come in packages
of 8??
+++++ END AUTO GREET
Anyways, good to see you back among the fold...:]
Bull-the-Welcome-Back-Ork-Decker
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 03:09:06 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970721205612.2da73434@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hmmm...
> And now, for the BOT :]
Hey! I did not get the auto-greet! What's that? Some discrimination,
or what?!1
<grin>
Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
Kilroy was here.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 21:10:31 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:53 AM 7/13/97 -0400, Deosyne wrote these timeless words:
>Like vice grips to the genital region. Now I'll have to learn to convert
>1st Ed. to 3rd! Maybe I'll give in this time and just buy the damn 3rd
><grumble>. So what's the deal this time, they merging 2nd ed. sourcebook
>with the companion and choice goodies from the supplements, or are they
>shooting for an overhaul of the system? (Mike, you still around? :)
>
No idea exactly what they're doing, and Steve kenson hasn't been very
forthcoming with the details, but... Hopefully all they're doing is
cleaning up the rules, modifying a few "trouble rules", and updating the
Matrix and Rigger sections of the book, along with some of the Tech stuff...
Look for SR3 around Gen Con next year, which is supposed to be FASA's bg
premier there...:]
As for Mike, he's Been off the list for about three months. With Summer
here, he's got a LOT of work to do. He's been prepping and finalizing
things with the SR Card Game, priemering at gen Con in a couple weeks, and
then available in Stores after that (I assume), plus Rigger 2.0 (Due around
September, withn hopefully a preview at Gen Con) and Cyberpirates (Due out
probably in October or November, and which was previewed at Origins from
what I hear).
He's been attending Conventions almost every weekend since May or so, so
that's why he isn;t current;y subscribed. Hard to keep up with your mail
when
you can't check it for 3 or 4 days, especially with THIS list...;]
Ok, that's iit... See ya! :]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 21:14:38 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:09 AM 7/22/97 +0000, Mike (Leszek Karlik) wrote these timeless words:
>Hmmm...
>
>> And now, for the BOT :]
>
>Hey! I did not get the auto-greet! What's that? Some discrimination,
>or what?!1
>
><grin>
>
Sorry Mike...:]
You made the mistake of not saying you were new to the list... I can only
greet newbies if I KNOW they're newbies...:]
But if it makes you feel any better...
Welcome! :]
Bull-the-teasing-Mike-Ork-Decker
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 03:18:27 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: A Li'l Ole Question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970722083639.3675E-100000@*******.dialix.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 21-Jul-97 wrote Lady Jestyr:
>What movies would everyone recommend for Shadowrun? And what's
>"Shadowrunny" (ew!) about them?
My alltime favoried is ..... Wild Palms.
Realy sadistic strange story.
A plots synopsis that is hard to get by, In the first time
I have barly understand whats going on after the second episode.
No more spoiling yet . . .
Shadowrunny, hmmm I think its a good portray what can had happened
before the crash of `29.
My recommandation is go and try to find it and see it, but bewarned.
The whole thing ist 270mins long and you need every second to
stay in touch with the plot if you see it the first time.
Good luck in locating a copy of it, its realy hard to find but worth
the trouble.
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 21:20:25 +0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@***01.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: A Li'l Ole Question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970722083639.3675E-100000@*******.dialix.com.au>
On 22 Jul 97 at 8:37, Lady Jestyr wrote:
> I know this thread has been covered many times before, so replies
> can go by private email...
>
> What movies would everyone recommend for Shadowrun? And what's
> "Shadowrunny" (ew!) about them?
Usual Suspects is a good "Shadowrunny" movie, which gave me lots of
PC and NPC ideas. I also like Sneakers, and Heat, mentioned
previously, which both show the merits of good planning.
For an exaggerated idea of what can go wrong with a looney in your
group, see Resevoir Dogs. :)
Blade Runner, Johnny Mnemonic and Strange Days are good movies for
atmosphere.
Also, Grosse Pointe Blank and Seven Heads In A Duffle Bag are
interesting. :)
--
===DREKHEAD==================================drekhead@***.net====
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
=================================================================
2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 21:30:16 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: SR-type movies (was: A Li'l Ole Question)
Greetings!!!
I strongely suggest "The Usual Suspects". Very shadowish, without the tech.
The scene where the team is assembled reminded me of how I put my team
together.
Trust me, you'll love it.
-Bandit
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 04:01:39 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] EuroGenCon
In-Reply-To: <199707211445.QAA18204@*****.xs4all.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hmmm...
> > Hey Gurth! Where IS EuroGencon?????
>
> Loughborough (sp?) University. When I looked it up on the map, it appears
> to be a bit below Nottingham. I'll definitely be there for four days
> (28-31 August), but I was wondering who else from this list is planning to
> go.
Is Nottingham near London (I doubt it.)? 'Cause in August I'm in
England, so maybe I'll go... Anyway, how much will it cost?
Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
A clean desk is a sign of a cluttered desk drawer.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 04:01:39 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Re: SR-type movies (was: A Li'l Ole Question)
In-Reply-To: <9707212325.AA05035@***.az05.bull.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hmmm...
> The Professional: The old-hit-man-trying-to-quit story, but this one was
> really good. Starring Jean Reno, the evil helicopter pilot from Mission:
> Impossible.
Ahh... Leon... Actually, the evil helicopter pilot in Mission:
Impossible is the Leon professional, not the other way 'round (IMHO
The Professional was much better than M:I. It's a cult movie for some
of my pals...).
Also, while we're talking about Jean Reno, another Shadowrunnish
movie would be "Nikita" (there's an US remake, called "Nina", but
it's just a lousy ripoff, and without Jean Reno to boot). I realy
recommend it (and there's Victor the Cleaner, the prototype for Leon,
played by - you guessed it - Jean Reno).
Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
Trrkt - Verpine Scout/Sniper, New Republic Armed Forces.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 22:28:58 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: SR-type movies (was: A Li'l Ole Question)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> From: Mike (Leszek Karlik) <trrkt@******.COM>
> Date: Tuesday, July 22, 1997 12:01 AM
> Also, while we're talking about Jean Reno, another Shadowrunnish
> movie would be "Nikita" (there's an US remake, called "Nina", but
> it's just a lousy ripoff, and without Jean Reno to boot). I realy
> recommend it (and there's Victor the Cleaner, the prototype for Leon,
> played by - you guessed it - Jean Reno).
The US remake of "La Femme Nikita" was entitled "Point of No Return",
and
it starred Bridget Fonda in the role of Nikita. Unlike most folks, I
actually liked the remake quite a bit and felt it was well done. Also,
there is a series on the USA network on Monday nights at 10pm (Eastern
Standard Time) entitled "La Femme Nikita", starring Peta Wilson in the role
of Nikita. The series has Nikita being more geared to the moralistic side
of things, but that poses many interesting situations for her.
"La Femme Nikita" in any of its forms is good viewing for Shadowrun, IMO.
> Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com;
http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 21:59:50 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Grill <frech@***.COM>
Subject: Re: SR-type movies
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Justin Pinnow wrote:
>
> > From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
> <snip>
> > What movies would everyone recommend for Shadowrun? And what's
> > "Shadowrunny" (ew!) about them?
>
It depends upon the type of game your running...
> STRANGE DAYS is a good precurser to Shadowrun. <snip>
>
> SNEAKERS is based around a corporate infiltration <snip>
>
> BLADE RUNNER ....well, need I say more? <snip>
>
> JOHHNY NUEMONIC (sp?) covers some of the feel for the universe, as well as
> some of the hardware involved (cyberwear). <snip>
Good examples. I'm suprised that no one so far has mentioned "Grosse
Point Blank" :)
I can see it as a good model for a character trying to woo someone who
doesn't know the character is a shadowrunner. (And yes, my GM did this
to me before I saw the movie.) :)
Other movies that come to mind: "Aliens", "The Godfather" movies,
"The
Usual Suspects", "Last Man Standing" would be a great premise for a solo
run, "Pulp Fiction", "Reservoir Dogs", "El Mariachi",
"Desperado", and
any other movies which have been mentioned that I'm forgeting would be
good runs, or at least could be adapted for use as a run.
>
> That's all that come to mind at the moment.
>
Same here. :)
> Enjoy :)
>
> > Lady Jestyr
>
> Justin :)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Frech A.K.A. Grill the elfin shaman-Shadowrun-newbie-who-still-
hasn't-been-greeted-by-Bull :)
http://www.realtime.net/~frech/
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 19:44:02 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Mike (Leszek Karlik) wrote:
>
> Hmmm...
>
> > And now, for the BOT :]
>
> Hey! I did not get the auto-greet! What's that? Some discrimination,
> or what?!1
>
> <grin>
Damnit Spike...How many times do I have to put in a work order?
;)
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 23:03:43 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
> Five, which is what the British Army does today for its 120mm rifled
> tank gun: put a slipping driving band on the sabot. It skids over the
> rifling rather than engaging in it, and so only a very slight spin
> (which helps the sabot to discard cleanly) is imparted to the
> projectile.
*That* was it. I knew I'd heard about something like that. Thank you.
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 19:48:34 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: SR-type movies (was: A Li'l Ole Question)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Justin Pinnow wrote:
> > Also, while we're talking about Jean Reno, another Shadowrunnish
> > movie would be "Nikita" (there's an US remake, called
"Nina", but
> > it's just a lousy ripoff, and without Jean Reno to boot). I realy
> > recommend it (and there's Victor the Cleaner, the prototype for Leon,
> > played by - you guessed it - Jean Reno).
>
> The US remake of "La Femme Nikita" was entitled "Point of No
Return", and
> it starred Bridget Fonda in the role of Nikita. Unlike most folks, I
> actually liked the remake quite a bit and felt it was well done. Also,
> there is a series on the USA network on Monday nights at 10pm (Eastern
> Standard Time) entitled "La Femme Nikita", starring Peta Wilson in the role
> of Nikita. The series has Nikita being more geared to the moralistic side
> of things, but that poses many interesting situations for her.
>
> "La Femme Nikita" in any of its forms is good viewing for Shadowrun, IMO.
I agree "La Femme Nikita," is great...hmmmm maybe i'll make a "Bob"
contact. Anyway as far as "Point of No Return," it was an amazingly
close remake anf I enjoyed it. I expected it to be much more
"americanized" then it was. Basically I would say that they are close
enough to decide on just whether or not you wanted subtitles...unless of
course you speak french.
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 03:35:06 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: [Sorta OT] A new game and advice
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970721204754.2da71078@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <3.0.16.19970721204754.2da71078@*****.com>, Bull
<chaos@*****.COM> rambled on endlessly about [Sorta OT] A new game and
advice
<big snip>
>Anyways, here's the point of this post. What the hell do I do after that?
>It's been far too long since i ran AD&D, and more importantly, I want to
>eventually ween these players into more of a roleplaying atmosphere
>eventually. How would you suggest doing this? What would you do in a
>situation like this (Other than try to convice them to play SR. Maybe
>after the card game comes out I can transfer them from Magic, to SR CCG,
>then to SR RPG, but until them, this is what they want to play, and it's
>either this or play cards again...:)).
If you want to convert them from AD&D to SR, it's a relatively simple
process. I managed to convert three AD&D die hards that had no interest
at all in anything with even a slight SF inclination by telling them
Shadowrun ws AD&D with guns. After a while they cottoned on that it
wasn't. but they were having so much fun AD&D sort of got left by the
wayside never to be touched again.
Otrherwise just tell them you want a break from fantasy and how do they
fancy doing something completely different, but similar. Most people
are willing to try things at least once.
>Anyways, thanks, and feel free to take this private e-mail if the list
>feels this isn;t an appropriate topic...;]
It's not, but then it's you, and you haven't been inapropriate for at
least 8 hours, so...
:)
--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 20:22:18 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Zero-G Combat
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---"J. Keith Henry" wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-07-18 05:18:13 EDT, schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU
(Court
> Schuett) writes:
>
> > BTW, what is Zero-G fighting? Must have
> > missed that. Is that in the Missions adventures? Is that any
good?
>
> I apologize, as Zero-G and Blind Fighting (the skill) are stuff that
have
> been developed here in response by the characters wanting to
function better
> in every situation.
Possible spoilers for Harlequin (the original) below...
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
P
A
C
E
I
S
B
E
I
N
G
P
L
A
C
E
D
OK, not that it may tie into waht you guys are talking about here. But
if you remember, there is a scene on a suborbital in the Harlequin
campaign that deals with a fight during Zero-G and the required tests
to deal with it. If you haven't seen it, you might want to check it
out.
Thought it might be of interest, anyways.
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:55:13 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: SR-type movies (was: A Li'l Ole Question)
In-Reply-To: <199707220230.WAA07562@****.provide.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
> The US remake of "La Femme Nikita" was entitled "Point of No
Return", and
> it starred Bridget Fonda in the role of Nikita. Unlike most folks, I
> actually liked the remake quite a bit and felt it was well done. Also,
Hmmm... I thought it was called "The Assassin"? That's certainly what
it's titled in Australia.
Lady Jestyr
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
