| From: | Unknown sender |
|---|---|
| Subject: | None |
| Date: | Unknown time and date |
if the listserver put a sig of its own at the bottom of each mail thats states
how to get help or how to signoff?
The rolemasterlist does just that and no such questions had arise since then
and I thing its worth the little more lines.
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:25:38 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: Nukes vs. Horrors
On Thursday, July 17, 1997 13:39, david lowe[SMTP:dlowe@****.COM] wrote:
> Ooops. Didn't I mention that the Horror is behind this all? I mean, who
> else would take steps to put a nuke into the hands of a toxic druid?
> Besides me, I mean.
Which reminds me. My group, upon first hearing of a toxic druid, said
something to the effect of "Hey, isn't that a drink?" and proceeded to
invent it.
It consists of "3 greens and a brown," the brown being soda of choice, and
the grrens being various mint liquers (IIRC)
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 10:31:49 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Define "munchkin"
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:14:38 PDT."
<19970717.121342.17119.2.lobo1@****.com>
<Snip stuff about Munchkinism>
Right On!
>-Canthros, the one and only (?) shapeshifter-mage, and munchkin on the
>mend:)
I played a weretiger physad once. I still have the character somwhere.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:36:59 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Dragons at the end of an age
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:12 7/17/97 -0500, Mike Elkins wrote:
>>What exactly happens to dragons (greater or
>>lesser) at the end of the age
>Lesser Dragons: well, they either die, shack up
>with greater dragons, or hibernate inside some
>natural high magic place. Ones whose hidding
>places could be pierced were probably hunted
>down and killed by knights or elves during the
>low mana tide.
I would expect that the common dragons who don't get a Great Dragon to hang
out with would die off. I think that the ones popping in now without any
apparent UGE are all reappearing because the universe has this tendency to
re-create important True Patterns (according to the ED book). In ED, this
means that there are some objects that can be destroyed, but they'll just
pop up somewhere else. I suspect that the beings that don't have any evident
critter to be related to for UGE (dragons, sprites) are actually being
restored from backup, so to speak...
--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "So, an Arisian, a Vorlon, and a knnn go into a tavern..." %%
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:40:47 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: (GM) Essence Drain
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
I've sent this to ShadowRN instead of ShadowGM because it originally
bounced back to me with a "Host unknown" error message :(
Possible spoilers for Faux Pas players (if there are any on this list).
Steven A. Tinner said on 0:20/17 Jul 97...
> > > I've had a character who was subject to a Blood Spirit's Essence Drain
> > > power. Is Essence Drain permanent?
> > >
> > Yep. BAD for magically actives, killer for most heavy sam-sams.
>
> AFAIK E-Drain is NOT permanent unless the character is killed by it.
> Don't have my BBB at hand, but doesn't the critter power description there
> imply that Essence does eventually comeback?
You're both right -- Paranormal Animals of Europe (the last book to
include paranormal power descriptions) split Essence Drain into Permanent
and Temporary variants. It mentions that "All creatures referred to in
other sourcebooks [than PAoE] as having the Essence drain power possess
the permanent version." so unless the blood spirit's power mentions that
it is the temporary version, the Essence lost to it is gone forever.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:47:43 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: (GM) Essence Drain
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Possible spoilers for Faux Pas players (if there are any on this list).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Steven A. Tinner said on 0:20/17 Jul 97...
>
> You're both right -- Paranormal Animals of Europe (the last book to
> include paranormal power descriptions) split Essence Drain into Permanent
> and Temporary variants. It mentions that "All creatures referred to in
> other sourcebooks [than PAoE] as having the Essence drain power possess
> the permanent version." so unless the blood spirit's power mentions that
> it is the temporary version, the Essence lost to it is gone forever.
That's why you're the guru.
You can always find these rules that I see, but forget immediately!
Thanks Gurth, I knew there was a temporary version!
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:45:41 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Faux Pas (Thomas)" <thomas@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: listserv idea was Re: Sorry....
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:52 PM 7/17/97 -0500, Barbie whispered:
>To solve such postings from the beginning would it not be better
>if the listserver put a sig of its own at the bottom of each mail thats
states
>how to get help or how to signoff?
>
>The rolemasterlist does just that and no such questions had arise since then
>and I thing its worth the little more lines.
>--
>Barbie
>
>
>==================================================
>You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
>climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
>gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
>no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
>memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
>age who i`m through sumerland.
>
>(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
>
>==================================================
>
If the additional text lines is about four lines and it's on every message,
when someone posts a short message like yours (which I quoted for
illustration) you get five lines of message, sixteen lines of your sig
(counting from the em-dash to the last blank line), and four more lines
from the list server. Result? Five lines of new content, twenty lines of
information we'd see on dozens of messages.
-Thomas Deeny
Your Guide to Shadowrun -- http://shadowrun.miningco.com -- updated every
Wednesday!
"First I'm going to bother every one I meet, and then I'll go home and get
drunk."
-Tippy Turtle
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:50:59 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: (GM) Essence Drain
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Gurth said:
>
>I've sent this to ShadowRN instead of ShadowGM because it originally bounced
>back to me with a "Host unknown" error message :(
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Possible spoilers for Faux Pas players (if there are any on this list).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>You're both right -- Paranormal Animals of Europe (the last book to include
>paranormal power descriptions) split Essence Drain into Permanent and
>Temporary variants. It mentions that "All creatures referred to in other
>sourcebooks [than PAoE] as having the Essence drain power possess
>the permanent version." so unless the blood spirit's power mentions that it
>is the temporary version, the Essence lost to it is gone forever.
>
>Kohl says:
> Speaking as a GM whose currently dealing extensively with Blood Magick
>and Blood Spirits, I can tell you that the Blood Spirit has BOTH Temporary
>AND Permanent Essence Drain Powers. And recently a NPC fell prey to the
>later.
> I play the spirit's selection on which it chooses dependant on how
>'hungry' it is, [Blood spirits MUST consume so much essence in a given time
>period, or expire], how much time it has, etc. If it's critically wounded,
>and needs food desperately, it'll drain it's victim, damaging her permantly.
>Not as satisfying [ I give the spirit only a 75% charge out of doing it that
>way], but they don't need the time required by the 'normally' slower
>temporary means. Not to mention you damage a continual source of food. [Yum!]
> Such Essence loss by a blood spirit in my game is also marked by a loss
>of blood by the victim [the Essence is transfered by this medium]. It flows
>from the eyes, ears, nose, pores, ...eeech, you get the picture. It's not
>very pretty. But it is a Blood Spirit, after all.
>
>Kohl
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 10:58:02 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Skye Comstock <bilbo@****.NWLINK.COM>
Subject: Re: WoTC on TV (was: Re: WOTC/FASA)
In-Reply-To: <v01540b01aff40a91212e@[140.174.162.216]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Has anyone else seen the WoTC commercials. I've seen three different ones
>in the last week or so, all on Comedy Central (that's an all comedy cable
>network here in the US). There stupid, but slickly produced. Having a
>little experience in the media industry, I know that it takes a few dollars
>to make something like that, and a few more to buy airtime. Mebbie our WA
>based Wizards have more cash than we think?
Yeah, I saw one on MTV (gasp) the other day... It was proclaiming
Magic as an intellectual sport and seemed to appeal to geeks and such. :)
About 2-4 months ago, there were commercials on the local radio station
that I listen to; talking about Magic, the tournament center, and the
Pro Tour. People seemed to be pretty amazed when I told them this. I
think WotC has a lot more money than people think. I have a hard
enough time imagining how much FASA is actually worth, WotC must be
worth... uh... a lot? Went past their big new center in the U District
a few days ago, didn't go in, but it looked expensive and from the
fliers I've got from them, the inside sounds really expernsive. (The
Battltech Simulator camps and Magic "classes" probably help:])
-Skye
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:08:06 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: Dragons at the end of an age
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:36 AM 7/17/97 -0800, Max Rible wrote:
>At 11:12 7/17/97 -0500, Mike Elkins wrote:
>>>What exactly happens to dragons (greater or
>>>lesser) at the end of the age
>
>I think that the ones popping in now without any
>apparent UGE are all reappearing because the universe has this tendency to
>re-create important True Patterns (according to the ED book). In ED, this
>means that there are some objects that can be destroyed, but they'll just
>pop up somewhere else.
Well, that would explain Elvis.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:25:05 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gossamer <kajohnson@*******.TEC.WI.US>
Subject: Re: Dragons at the end of an age
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >>>What exactly happens to dragons (greater or
> >>>lesser) at the end of the age
> >
> >I think that the ones popping in now without any
> >apparent UGE are all reappearing because the universe has this tendency to
> >re-create important True Patterns (according to the ED book). In ED, this
> >means that there are some objects that can be destroyed, but they'll just
> >pop up somewhere else.
>
> Well, that would explain Elvis.
I have very rarely seen such an simple, elegant, poignant, and hilarious
comment.
Gossamer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:28:10 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
In-Reply-To: <199707170623.AAA05056@******> from "TopCat" at Jul 17,
97 01:22:59 am
Content-Type: text
TopCat wrote:
|
| 18D at mammoth ranges is pretty much a powergamer's wet dream with sugar on
| top. It isn't munchy as it is in the rules, but I called it powergaming.
| It's like I've said to my players "you can have anything, just expect
| consequences if you choose to act or purchase unwisely". The better the
| item, the more likely someone will be to attempt to steal it. Also,
| crimelords wouldn't be too happy knowing that some schmoe down the street
| (in their teritory no less) is storing heavy artillery.
Please keep in mind that the effectiveness of a PAC varies from game
to game, and even from adventure to adventure. If you're playing in
a high combat game involving high intensity conflicts a PAC might be
what the character "needs" to survive. In you're game that isn't the
case, but I just wanted to point out that the definition of
Powergaming varies.
| | I'd probably go off on the character from a powergaming aspect,
but I | haven't seen the character, nor have I seen how your
particular game is | played, nor have I seen how long your character
has been played so I can't | truly make that call. No munchkinism in
those stats that I can see, though...
And here it appears that you agree :)
Also note that a Munchkin isn't defined by his character, but by
himself. I've encountered a Munchkin that didn't have the brains to
crunch the numbers on his character (the Pathetic Munchkin).
| As to my vision of SR... it's heavy on the roleplaying and light on the
| combat. Numbers matter, but not near as much as they do in most campaigns.
| Good decision-making and proper use of available resources and contacts is
| what defines the success of the runner team.
Ditto, but that's your and my campaigns. Please note that I'm not
trying to argue with you, just point a few things. Powergaming has
it's place in a Powergame (which can be a lot of fun if you've got a
good GM). Powergamer does not equal Munchkin. Everybody's game is
different and you should respect their philosophies as much as you
want them to respect yours.
BTW, I respect your views. I don't always agree. Heck, I don't even
always understand what the heck you're ranting about :)
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:33:27 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Saving the Team by Self-Sacrifice
In-Reply-To: <199707162218.QAA26171@******> from "Black Death" at Jul 16,
97 04:19:41 pm
Content-Type: text
Black Death wrote:
|
| How many of you players have GMs and other players bitch about your
| high level character?
I play in one power-gaming AD$D campaign. However, we roleplay, so the GM
doesn't bitch :)
| And when you and your team gets into a bind and you try to save the team
| by self-sacrifice your GM wimps out and lets you live?
I hate it when that happens. I retire my character after something
like that.
| Is it cause he does not want your character to be immortalized by the
| action he took to save his team?
Nope, usually it's because the GM is afraid to kill characters.
| To you GMs out there has any of your players tried to do this? and what
| did you do about the situation?
I've killed characters for being stupid. I've had a couple think
they needed to sacrifice themselves, but didn't (and lived because
they weren't in the right place). And there have been a few ocasions
when a character has put his life on the line and gotten lucky as
hell. But as yet I don't think I've ever presented a character with
a choice of his life for others. And to tell the truth, I never
will. Of course that doesn't mean the characters won't create such a
situation on their own :) In which case I'll happily waste them.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:36:24 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: What about Bob?
In-Reply-To: <199707162217.QAA26009@******> from "TopCat" at Jul 16,
97 05:16:25 pm
Content-Type: text
TopCat wrote:
|
| I bitch about over-powered characters all the time...
Ah, I read this just after I sent my last post. Am I correct in
assuming that when you say "Powergamer" you're refering to someone
who makes over-powered characters, characters that are overpowered
for the game? And that the player does this despite knowing what the
game is about? If so, I call that a Munchkin (also, the word Asshole
works well in this situation).
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 11:51:11 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: david lowe <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Nukes vs. Horrors
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 1:25 PM 7/17/97, Jonathan Hurley wrote:
>Which reminds me. My group, upon first hearing of a toxic druid, said
>something to the effect of "Hey, isn't that a drink?" and proceeded to
>invent it.
>
>It consists of "3 greens and a brown," the brown being soda of choice, and
>the grrens being various mint liquers (IIRC)
>
ROTFL!!!!
D.
David R. Lowe (dlowe@****.com)
Photography/Graphic Design
"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby."
-Daffy Duck
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 11:55:06 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: david lowe <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: What about Bob?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
<Snip>
Are those regular Bobs, or Fusion Bobs?
D.
David R. Lowe (dlowe@****.com)
Photography/Graphic Design
"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby."
-Daffy Duck
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:53:35 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Nukes vs. Horrors
In-Reply-To: <19970717.121342.17119.0.lobo1@****.com> from "John E
Pederson"
at Jul 17, 97 12:14:38 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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|I wouldn't bet on the Horror escaping unscathed....
|
|B
|U
|G
|
|C
|I
|T
|Y
|
|S
|P
|O
|I
|L
|E
|R
|S
|
|
|When they set off the Cermak nuke, it destroyed any manifest trueforms
|(fleshforms also) in the area and knocked the rest of the ones in
|Chi-town into torpor. I'd expect a similar thing with the Enemy...Also,
|magic apparently cannot affect nuclear radiation. No one knows why, it
|just can't.
I thought the ward contained the majority of the blast at cernac....
|
|--
|-Canthros
|I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
|and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
|--Francis Bacon
|http://members.aol.com/canthros1
|
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:55:49 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: WoTC on TV (was: Re: WOTC/FASA)
In-Reply-To: <v01540b01aff40a91212e@[140.174.162.216]> from "david lowe"
at
Jul 17, 97 09:48:16 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|Has anyone else seen the WoTC commercials. I've seen three different ones
|in the last week or so, all on Comedy Central (that's an all comedy cable
|network here in the US). There stupid, but slickly produced. Having a
|little experience in the media industry, I know that it takes a few dollars
|to make something like that, and a few more to buy airtime. Mebbie our WA
|based Wizards have more cash than we think?
There's a BIF thread on these adverts and how stupid they are in
Rec.games.frp.misc....
Take it there. I really don't give a **** about WotC....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:17:01 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: [OT] [Well, it might be usefull][sort of] Reboot!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
The new season of REBOOT started today....
All I can say is.....WATCH IT!!!!!
<Spoiler time>
Is this enough.....
There....
BRILLIANT! Absolutely ****ing brilliant!
Even the new opening sequence catches the mood...
For those who haven't seen this wonderful series, the end of season
cliffhanger involved the main hero being trapped and ejected from the
system, into the Web. (Not a nice place to visit, and I certainly wouldn't
want to live there). The portal to the web was then closed, permanently.
Old {Bobs voice} |New {Megabytes voice}
I come from the net. |I come from the net
From systems, peoples and cities |Infecting systems, people and cities
to this place... |To this place.....
Mainframe. |MEGAFRAME.....
My Format, Guardian. |MY DOMAIN.....
To mend, and defend. |
To defend my new found friends. |[[[Music bit]]]
To defend them from..... |
Their enemies. |
|
[[[music bit]]] |
|
They say the user lives outside the |
net and inputs games for pleasure. |
No-one knows for sure, but I intend |
to FIND OUT! |
|My Format: Virus
REBOOT! |To corrupt and conquer......
All I can say is..... WATCH IT!!!!!
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:35:04 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OOC?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:30 AM 7/17/97 -0400, M. Sean Martinez wrote these timeless words:
>In a message dated 97-07-17 11:08:55 EDT, you write:
>
><< And since we're all bandying about rumors like a bunch of old maids
> gossiping, rumor has it that GW IS in trouble, due to their EVIL pricing
> practices. >>
>
>I haven't heard the rumors about GW's troubles. So what is the latest scoop?
>
At the moment, GW doesn't have any true problems... But they DO have a lot of pissed off
players who are desperately looking for Miniatures Elsewhere for the games...
GW has been doing some really BAD things... Like raising the price of EVERY blister pack
of mini's 50 cents, and raising all their boxed sets 10% across the board. plus some of
their newer mini's have some rediculous prices, like the Green Knight. It's a REALLY cool
looking and nicely done, but at $20.00 for a single mounted mini, it's hideously
overpriced...:(
They have also stopped making or supporting several of their "smaller" games,
such as their Warhammer Quest and Blood Bowl games, which has frustrated the gamers for
those games.
Plus, they went to direct distributorship, and then required a certain amount to be
ordered, thus makig it near impossible for smaller shops to afford the mini's, thus they
stopped carrying them.
And now, GW is requiring stores to buy the newer blister packs in lots of 6, per blister.
thus, a store has to buy 6 Elf Mage blisters...:( This is really becoming a problem for
the stores and gamers alike.
However, Warhamemr products have reached an all time high in popularity in the US, which
is part of the reason GW is getting greedy.
Hopefully, GW will learn from TSR's mistakes. Otherwise, the giant of the Mini Industry
could find itself needing rescued, in which case I can definately see WOTC bailing them
out.
Bull-who-likes-most-GW-mini-games
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:35:08 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Gaming Conventions
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 05:29 AM 7/17/97 -0500, Black Death wrote these timeless words:
>Is there a site that list gaming conventions and their location on the
>net? If so then where is it?
>
Do a netsearch on Gaming Conventions... There are several sites (though I don't know the
addies), though I don;t think there's any ONE site that is really complete.
>PS:: Bull-the-leave-you-hanging-Ork hurry up with Quicksilver Lightning
>Chapter 4+. I like it but you left me hanging.
>
<sigh>
I'm working on Part 3... Unfortunately, I have a bad habit of setting aside old projects
when a new one comes along. But I promise to have at least Chapter 5 done for TSS4 :]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:45:54 -0500
Reply-To: swordman@******.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Swordman <swordman@******.NET>
Subject: Re: WoTC on TV (was: Re: WOTC/FASA)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Skye Comstock wrote:
>
> Yeah, I saw one on MTV (gasp) the other day... It was proclaiming
> Magic as an intellectual sport and seemed to appeal to geeks and such.
But did you keep and eye on MTV?
I coaught the last clip of a Magic tornament. They guy who one looked
like this seruously ripped dude babes all over him like he was Adonis or
something, then I find out he's one of the finalists in this Magic
Tournament, sponsered by MTV.
The world just got a little darker.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:46:15 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@*****.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Gaming Conventions
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970717151755.2d6fd694@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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On 17 Jul 97 at 15:35, Bull wrote:
> Do a netsearch on Gaming Conventions... There are several sites (though I don't know
the addies), though I don;t think there's any ONE site that is really complete.
<rest snipped>
Hey Bull,
today I noticed your mailer is sending your text as one long line.
Might wanna check it.
===DREKHEAD==================================drekhead@***.net===
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
================================================================
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot
stomping on a human face...forever. -George Orwell
----------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:21:59 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Willpower & the Common Mage (was Re: [SR3] Combat Spells)
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 12:00 AM 7/18/97 +1000, Glenn wrote:
>>The average mage is just a person with the
>>capability to use magic. There would be proportionately as many mundanes
>>with a 6 Willpower as mages.
>I have to disagree here. Hermetic mages study to learn their magic often
>using mathematical formulas and the like. Those that even bother to try you
>would expect to have average and above willpowers. Then with the shamanic
>tradition why would a totem choose low willpowered individuals? The totem
>wants to advance its own cause and would choose the best people for that
>job and people with low willpower generally would not suit.
Why would hermetics have to have higher than average Willpowers to bother to
try to understand or use magic? By the statment above of "Hermetic mages
study to learn...etc" one could piece together a general need for hermetics
to have a high Magical Theory skill. Willpower has nothing to do with that,
there are doubtlessly many weak-willed people who can use magic. It just
doesn't work out well numbers-wise to play a character like that.
Totems choose their shaman for their own reasons, and I'd see Willpower as
awfully low on that priority list. Personality would be foremost by far.
Then perhaps destiny. Why bother taking some guy who happens to be
strong-willed if he doesn't have a personality anywhere near that of the
Totem? The guy'd never be able to use his magic anyway. If totems chose
their shaman by willpower, every shaman would be an albino dwarf and no
totem would ever think to pick a troll.
Also, one's willpower need not be "low" (1 or 2) I am simply stating that it
need not be high (5 or 6). Realistically, there would probably be an equal
distribution of both high and low willpowers among mages. In most games,
however, this stat is powergamed. Which is okay as long as people can admit
it and deal with their choices.
>Even assuming that there is the same spread of willpower amongst mundanes
>and mages that does not mean there is the same spread amongst mages running
>the shadows. I actually envision most low willpower mages as not
>comprehending they are magicaly active. To them they just can do this neat
>trick but is generally ignored because its tiring to concentrate to do
>it/its evil/it doesn't always work.
Low willpower mages don't comprehend that they're magically active? Far
from, willpower has absolutely nothing to do with one's capacity to realize
that they are magically active. A high willpower person could easily
deceive himself into believing that he was or was not magically active even
if the inverse was true. A low willpower person might believe someone if
they were told they were or were not magically active.
It'll be far more tiring for a high-willpower mage to cast a hellblast than
it'll be for a low-willpower mage to cast a manadart. Spell selection
should follow one's abilities (something that I believe strongly in). If
you know that you get headaches from casting a barrier, then learn personal
barrier. Control thoughts is a very powerful spell, but anyone who knows
about the spell knows that it's hell to resist. Only those willing to eat
the drain and those too stupid to research the effects of spells before
learning them would choose control thoughts. Also, a high sorcery pool can
more than make up for a low/average willpower. You know that you can't
handle drain as well as willful-boy over there so you work on perfecting
your art to the point where your skill makes up for your shortcoming. It's
a very common occurrence in today's world, why wouldn't it be in 205X?
Believing that magic is evil is part of a person's mindset and totally
seperate from one's Willpower. There are plenty of high Willpower priests
in SR that would swear up and down that magic is evil, but that they can
work "miracles" through their god's will...
Magic not always working can often be a factor of the targets you choose and
the spells you choose to use on them. If you find yourself fighting a troll
street gang a lot, that powerball spell is going to do you absolutely no
good. A manaball will work wonders though. Healing spells will have
problems with cybered targets. It'll be difficult to increase a huge
troll's body with a spell.
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:32:42 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Saving the Team by Self-Sacrifice
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:46 PM 7/16/97 -0400, J. Keith Henry wrote:
>In a message dated 97-07-16 19:18:44 EDT, topcat@***.NET (TopCat) writes:
>>>And when you and your team gets into a bind and you try to save the team
>>>by self-sacrifice your GM wimps out and lets you live?
>>I wouldn't allow the character in the campaign in the first place. Design
>>the campaign, then design characters to fit it. Assuming I did let the
>>character in, I'd let him die. In fact, I'd strive to kill him. Cruel?
>>Perhaps, but he wanted the spotlight...
>Not to start an argument here, but what if said player didn't want to steal
>the spotlight? Sometimes, as you yourself has indicated, "Power" is a
>decision. Deciding to play it comes with a lot of responsibilities, for all
>those involved in the particular game.
As I mentioned in the first line, I wouldn't allow the character to play
anyway. I've got a current situation where one player wants to use a "Speed
Elf" character (23+3D6 intitiative) in a low-mid powered campaign and I'm
not going to allow it.
Power is always a decision. You don't accidentally take a PAC, you take it
because it is powerful. Deciding to play a powerful character does, indeed,
come with responsibilities (and I take each of those very seriously, though
many of the players of such characters do not), but there is also the
responsibility to play the game as a group and within the bounds of a given
campaign. If you let a superpowered character into a group of low-powered
types, it'll ruin the game for all involved. I choose never to let that
situation occur. Saves me a lot of trouble.
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:51:21 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:35 AM 7/17/97 -0600, Mike wrote:
> I think I like Matt's approach a little better (Matt is one of our
>2 GM's). He says "You guys can have any weapon in the book, as long as
>I get to shoot you with it first." Needless to say, we have a pretty
>conservative group, powerful-item wise. In our current campaign, my
>techie/thief/gun-guy (who happens to be the deadliest combat guy so far
>in this group) has a Walther PB-120, a Savalette Guardian and a Narcojet
>pistol. By keeping the power level low on our side, intentionally, the
>power levels encountered will most often match. When the opposing force
>is better equipped, it just makes it more fun and challenging.
Sounds good to me and it's essentially what I do as well. I told my players
to think about this...
What would you do if you saw a guy regularly walking down the street with a
shotgun in his hands? What would the police do? What would local gangers
and criminal orgs do? Now change that shotgun to whatever weapon you want
and then tell me what you want to buy...
>> As I've said before and will doubtlessly have to say again, play as you
>> want. Just don't try to state that powergaming is the norm in the game and
>> everything will be just fine. Also, don't try to accomodate powergaming by
>> altering the rules to demand such a practice. As far as I know, you haven't
>> done so. You've missed my point often by a considerable degree, but
>> hopefully this post will cure that.
> I don't want to sound too antagonistic here, but you seem to be
>contradicting yourself. First you say "play as you want" then you go
>on to say "don't try to accomodate powergaming by altering the rules
>to demand such a practice." If that is how a group wants to play then
>what's wrong with that? We all have our house rules, and every one of
>those house rules will look munchkinous or powergamery to someone who
>does not play in that group. Live and let live. Now if you were both
>arguing a point over game balance within the affected system...
Not contradicting and you and I are actually on the same wavelength here. I
don't want the actual canonical rules of SR changed to expect and demand
powergaming. As they are now, they are fine in many regards (combat spells
being one of those). The rules do not currently demand powergaming, though,
like all systems, they are susceptible to it. If canonical combat spell
rules were changed to fit the viewpoint of a powergamed campaign, then
gradually everyone would *have* to be powergamed in order to survive
(low-powered games would be impossible due to powergamed canonical rules).
This practice works much like nuclear escalation. Make one aspect of a game
more powerful and the others rush to equal and then exceed that level.
Evetually we all end up playing Rifts because it's the lowest-powered game
out there...
I have no problem with powergamed.munchkinous house rules so long as they
remain house rules (not in my house) and not canon. So were we really off
on this topic or not?
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:48:59 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Gaming Conventions
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:46 PM 7/17/97 +0000, Drekhead wrote these timeless words:
>On 17 Jul 97 at 15:35, Bull wrote:
>
>> Do a netsearch on Gaming Conventions... There are several sites (though
I don't know the addies), though I don;t think there's any ONE site that is
really complete.
><rest snipped>
>
>Hey Bull,
>today I noticed your mailer is sending your text as one long line.
>
>Might wanna check it.
>
Oops...
I was trying to fix some stuff last night, and i turned off the auto word
wrappping... And Forgot to turn it back on...
My apologies...:]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 14:51:04 +0000
Reply-To: hardware@*******.ab.ca
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <hardware@*******.datanet.ab.ca>
From: Shane Courtrille <hardware@*******.DATANET.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Gaming Conventions
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970717151755.2d6fd694@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> <sigh>
>
> --
> Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
>
> The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
> Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
> List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
> in production now!
> HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
>
> "Gen Con, here I come!"
> -- Me
> I'm working on Part 3... Unfortunately, I have a bad habit of setting aside old
> projects when a new one comes along.
hmmmm I think your SIG says it all ;) but umm question Bull.. why has
your email recently not been formatted for length? Its annoying
having to scroll way way way right to read stuff.. or is this just
me? (btw.. other ppls email is formatted fine)
Shane Courtrille - hardware@*******.ab.ca
Being in love... What a trip...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:54:22 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:11 AM 7/17/97 -0500, Mike wrote:
>At 01:37 AM 7/17/97 -0500, TopCat wrote:
>>Ahh, drink and debate. Now that sounds good. Most people find that, when
>>they get to know me, my views on many things are really interesting and
>>realistic if a bit stubborn. Also, most people find that, when they get to
>>drinking with me, I'm a lush. ;)
>A _bit_ stubborn? A _BIT_?!?!? Bob, you make me look reasonable in
>comparison.
Heh. I think we're both on par when it comes to how stubborn we are. Now
Nelson, on the other hand... ;)
>And, you're not a lush, you're a big drunk Czech.
Am not! I'm not drunk right now and I've got some Dutch blood in me too...
of course the drunk part could change at any moment ;)
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:12:23 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:28 PM 7/17/97 -0600, David wrote:
>Also note that a Munchkin isn't defined by his character, but by
>himself. I've encountered a Munchkin that didn't have the brains to
>crunch the numbers on his character (the Pathetic Munchkin).
Agreed, Munchkins need not be able to powergame to be munchkins, but in
their character lies the expression of their tendencies. There are many
munchkins out there who don't know the rules of a game, but they know what
will allow them to win every fight while keeping them safe from harm and
they'll strive to make that happen in any way they can (preferrably with
some unique super-powerful item). I appear to have trashed my treatise on
munchkins, but the thread that recently popped up here did a good job
describing them.
>| As to my vision of SR... it's heavy on the roleplaying and light on the
>| combat. Numbers matter, but not near as much as they do in most campaigns.
>| Good decision-making and proper use of available resources and contacts is
>| what defines the success of the runner team.
>Ditto, but that's your and my campaigns. Please note that I'm not
>trying to argue with you, just point a few things. Powergaming has
>it's place in a Powergame (which can be a lot of fun if you've got a
>good GM). Powergamer does not equal Munchkin. Everybody's game is
>different and you should respect their philosophies as much as you
>want them to respect yours.
Agreed! Powergaming does have it's place in a Powergame. Perfectly said.
In a game where powergaming is the norm then it is fine, but it is still
powergaming. I've never said that powergamer means munchkin (why does
everyone think I said this?).
I don't have to respect various gaming philosophies, just as I don't have to
respect various people or practices. Not a very nice sentiment, I know, but
it's the way I am and, I think, the way we all are to one degree or another.
I don't respect munchkinous games and I have little respect if any for some
of the powergames out there. Not respecting a given gaming philosophy and
banning it from practice are two very different things though. I can't do
the latter.
>BTW, I respect your views. I don't always agree. Heck, I don't even
>always understand what the heck you're ranting about :)
I'm a tough guy to want to agree with... heh
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:29:24 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Hartmann <Hartmann@***********.M.EUNET.DE>
Subject: Re: Saving the Team by Self-Sacrifice
Comments: To: Black Death <ddmaster@**.NET>
In-Reply-To: <33CD3AEC.277F4763@**.net>
> How many of you players have GMs and other players bitch about your
> high level character?
>
> And when you and your team gets into a bind and you try to save the team
> by self-sacrifice your GM wimps out and lets you live?
>
> Is it cause he does not want your character to be immortalized by the
> action he took to save his team?
I don't think so. Many GMs are simply afraid of killing characters.
They fear that the player get annoyed.
> To you GMs out there has any of your players tried to do this? and what
> did you do about the situation?
Well, at first I'd make clear to the character that this action might
very well kill him (just in case he didn't realize). If he still
wants to do that (in order to save the team) I'd let him have a real
climatic showdown (because it is a hard decision to let your
character die). I'd give lots of opportunities for roleplaying the
"last minutes" trying to involve the rest of the team if they have
some kind of commlink.
bye mike
---
Download SRCG now:
http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/newreed/15/index.html
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:32:15 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Black Death <ddmaster@**.NET>
Subject: TO TopCat was Re: Saving the Team by Self-Sacrifice
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
TopCat wrote:
>
> At 10:46 PM 7/16/97 -0400, J. Keith Henry wrote:
> >In a message dated 97-07-16 19:18:44 EDT, topcat@***.NET (TopCat)
> writes:
> >>>And when you and your team gets into a bind and you try to save the
> team
> >>>by self-sacrifice your GM wimps out and lets you live?
>
> >>I wouldn't allow the character in the campaign in the first place.
> Design
> >>the campaign, then design characters to fit it. Assuming I did let
> the
> >>character in, I'd let him die. In fact, I'd strive to kill him.
> Cruel?
> >>Perhaps, but he wanted the spotlight...
>
> >Not to start an argument here, but what if said player didn't want to
> steal
> >the spotlight? Sometimes, as you yourself has indicated, "Power" is
> a
> >decision. Deciding to play it comes with a lot of responsibilities,
> for all
> >those involved in the particular game.
>
> As I mentioned in the first line, I wouldn't allow the character to
> play
> anyway. I've got a current situation where one player wants to use a
> "Speed
> Elf" character (23+3D6 intitiative) in a low-mid powered campaign and
> I'm
> not going to allow it.
>
> Power is always a decision. You don't accidentally take a PAC, you
> take it
> because it is powerful. Deciding to play a powerful character does,
> indeed,
> come with responsibilities (and I take each of those very seriously,
> though
> many of the players of such characters do not), but there is also the
> responsibility to play the game as a group and within the bounds of a
> given
> campaign. If you let a superpowered character into a group of
> low-powered
> types, it'll ruin the game for all involved. I choose never to let
> that
> situation occur. Saves me a lot of trouble.
> --
> Bob Ooton
> topcat@***.net
Who mention that the others where low powered characters??
wait a minute. They were but not because they were just made or not been
played that much. Hell all of them except one other still had the same
stats as when they where created.
Is it my fought that the players did not use they Karma??
So until you know the whole situation don't be a drekhead.
PS: I understand the "speed elf" situation and i would not allow it if
he just created it.
--
http:/www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/3869
<BlkDeath> WA:: Request a kick on aisle 10. please
*** You were kicked from #Shadowrun by WildAngle
(Victim number 10 Aisle 10! Clear out! Contaminated
soy spilled!)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:15:34 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Nelson <kuthuga@***.NET>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
In-Reply-To: <199707172054.PAA02335@*******.fgi.net> from "TopCat" at Jul
17,
97 03:54:22 pm
Content-Type: text
> Heh. I think we're both on par when it comes to how stubborn we are. Now
> Nelson, on the other hand... ;)
What!? how the heck did I get in on this. I always bow to a reasoned
arguement Bob you just rarely give me one. Remember its only
overconfidence if I fail and only stubborness if im not right.
So quoth the big fookin Irishman
Mike Nelson
mike@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:22:46 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Charles R Joseph <arcaneacuity@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Addiction
On Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:39:43 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>Shadowtech gives rules for drug use, but fails to mention how BTLs fit
>into the picture. The rules that are given, though, are obviously
>intended to discourage players fom having their characters addicted --
NOBODY
>using those rules will live longer than 10 weeks once addicted, because
one
>physical and one stun box are lost from the Condition Monitor each
>week...
Geez...that's awfully realistic. I can see drugs being a bit
more potent in 2058, but Christ...can't have much of a drug culture with
everyone dying all the time. I guess they have their reasons for wanting
to discourage junkie characters, same as with any other "bad" element.
One has to keep up appearances.
>(<plug>For a suggested improvement, get Paranoid Animals of North
>America from my web page.</plug>)
I will as soon as I have web access again...which will HOPEFULLY
be tomorrow.
>IMHO it would be a good idea to give BTLs addiction stats like
>chemical drugs.
I don't know about that. It seems to me that there should be
more mental and less physical side effects. However, since my character
uses both BTLs and chemical drugs, that would only fuck my character up
even more...which I don't particularly mind as long as he still has some
semblance of usefulness, real or imagined, to the rest of the group.
>> What's available?
>
>In official SR material, nothing much except stuff that's somehow
>useful (my age-old complaint about SR again :) But check the net for
>Wordman's SR drugs list, and you should have enough to start you off.
I'll do that too...when I get my access back. Two weeks without
access and counting...wahhhhhh!
>> What are the short term/long term effects of addiction? Do they
>>affect magic-use?
>
>Shadowtech explains it all on page 87, but basically you lose Essence
>and Condition Monitor boxes to an addiction. That should answer the
>question if they affect magic use, too...
I see...considering that my character would be dead already from
these rules (he's been an addict for about a year prior to game time), I
don't think I'll be using them.
Winter Wolfe Arcane
arcaneacuity@****.com
"When our hatred is violent, it sinks us even beneath those we hate."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:58:30 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Designs [was: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin'
Munchies!!!]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:08 PM 7/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Okay, with this paragraph a very distinct question has arisen to me. How
>many people out there have a game scenario/series that is "neverending"? By
>that I mean that they don't just "get an idea" and design the idea then have
>everyone make the characters. After the idea is over, the characters are put
>aside.
All of mine are like this... I create a (very) simple campaign basis and go
from there, pretty much allowing the characters to do as they wish and take
the campaign with them. Why play a game where the GM says "you do this"
when you could play one where the GM says "now what do you do?". The
characters are never put aside.
Now this sounds like I am borderline absurdly flexible in what I'll let into
my game. Remember that I set the game, then have the characters made to fit
it, then let it play out.
If you make the characters before teh setting, you can have continuity and
association problems (why would an ex-Wildcat hang out with an ex-SEAL and a
mage from Tir Tairngire). You can also run into power-level problems (Troll
Tank and GBD join a group of gangers...ugh).
Design the campaign, work with the players to get the characters to mesh,
then go from there... formula for a perfect campaign.
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:07:37 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: TO TopCat was Re: Saving the Team by Self-Sacrifice
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 04:32 PM 7/17/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Who mention that the others where low powered characters??
It was mentioned at the start of the thread that the sacrificial character
was overly powerful for the campaign.
>wait a minute. They were but not because they were just made or not been
>played that much. Hell all of them except one other still had the same
>stats as when they where created.
I don't know the *specific* campaign in question only the situation that the
original poster gave, which is all anyone could reply to...
>Is it my fault that the players did not use they Karma??
Yes, it could well be. If the campaign is set for lower-level characters
and one character insists on advancing himself into the powergamed
stratosphere while others maintain the status quo then it is, indeed, his
fault and unquestioningly so. The campaign will suffer accordingly and I'd
kill the character that would do such a thing...
>So until you know the whole situation don't be a drekhead.
I know the situation well and have been far from a "drekhead" in dealing
with it...
>PS: I understand the "speed elf" situation and i would not allow it if
>he just created it.
All of the characters are newly created. I haven't even handed out karma
yet (some are quite upset about this as it has been two sessions now).
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:20:01 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Loseke <mike@******.VERINET.COM>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Designs [was: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin'
In-Reply-To: <199707172158.QAA07768@*******.fgi.net> from "TopCat" at Jul
17,
97 04:58:30 pm
Content-Type: text
Quoth TopCat:
>
> At 11:08 PM 7/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >Okay, with this paragraph a very distinct question has arisen to me. How
> >many people out there have a game scenario/series that is
"neverending"? By
> >that I mean that they don't just "get an idea" and design the idea then
have
> >everyone make the characters. After the idea is over, the characters are put
> >aside.
>
> All of mine are like this... I create a (very) simple campaign basis and go
> from there, pretty much allowing the characters to do as they wish and take
> the campaign with them. Why play a game where the GM says "you do this"
> when you could play one where the GM says "now what do you do?". The
> characters are never put aside.
This is exactly the approach that we have always taken, especially with
Shadowrun. The setting lends itself more to this type of setup than
many other game settings. It also encourages the players to think more,
and since this is a mental game anyway, thinking is good.
> Now this sounds like I am borderline absurdly flexible in what I'll let into
> my game. Remember that I set the game, then have the characters made to fit
> it, then let it play out.
Do you make all of the characters yourself to fit the campaign, or do you
give some guidelines for the players to use?
> If you make the characters before teh setting, you can have continuity and
> association problems (why would an ex-Wildcat hang out with an ex-SEAL and a
> mage from Tir Tairngire). You can also run into power-level problems (Troll
> Tank and GBD join a group of gangers...ugh).
I'll share what we did on our newest campaign. The GM (Travis this time)
announced that he would be running a campaign and told us what the
specific limitations were, as well as which optional/house rules we
should pay close attention to while creating our characters. He did
not specify what type of characters we should make. He didn't even know
what kind of characters we would be using until he had already outlined
the first two scenarios we would be put through. The task put before us
(the players) was simple: make a group of characters that already had
a relationship as a group, that also worked well together, and come up
with detailed backgrounds, both personal and group.
We came up with a refreshing mix: 2 hermetic mages, 1 PhysAd, 1 rigger,
a decker (who's now an NPC), a face-man and 2 B&E types. Note, we do
not have a single street sam or merc. We've put some 20 hours into this
campaign so far and the group is working like a finely tuned machine.
It promises to be one of the more enjoyable campaigns too, if we can
keep it going and not be disturbed by too many spouses too often...
In our group experience, doing things this way has always been the best
method when starting a campaign. We've experimented with the GM handing
out pre-made characters for the players to use and that didn't last
too long. In fact, only one character made it out of that campaign
to play in one or two more (Cherry, the psycho gang chick...).
--
|
Mike Loseke | You never know how fluffy poodles are,
mike@*******.com | until you step in one.
|
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:52:26 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Designs [was: Re: We Don't Need No
Stinkin'Munchies!!!]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Top Cat ranted, standing upon podium, beating chest:
> Design the campaign, work with the players to get the characters to
>mesh,
>then go from there... formula for a perfect campaign.
>
>To which Kohl replys:
> Okay! First off, I've got to say, TopCat, you bring a whole new meaning
>to GM fasism!
> Design the campaign, design out the characters, dictate who goes and
>knows where and what? Why don't you just play all the PCs and NPCs yourself?
> The whole point of the game is to allow the players to run a character
>they LIKE to run, WITHIN REASON. NOT dictate to them what they can and cannot
>have or do!
> I ran into a GM like that during a gaming convention in Buffalo, when I
>was visiting a couple of friends. He had the whole thing laid out to a T,
>with NO flexibility for personalization whatso ever! And it was a tournament
>game slated for 3 nights! having been a Gm for awhile, I can tell someone new
>to the game, so I figured I'd play dumb, like I'd wasn't familiar with the
>game, and just enjoy the ride [OKAY, I'm an EVIL person! Never said I was an
>angel.]
> But as the game went on, it became more apparent that the whole thing
>was just set up so the Gm could see HIS characters played out in HIS story
>HIS way. Having a viscious streak a klick long, I proceeded to use my
>familiarity with the game, mechanics and setting, to 'accelerate'a little
>chaos into the game.
> After the end of the first session, he asked me when we were leaving if
>I'd played before, and I said a little. I suggested he shouldn't be so heavy
>handed in pushing his players, and things would go easier. I was still
>enjoying myself, and thought the storyline was pretty decent.
> The following two days actually were a bit more fun. He allowed the rest
>of the group to tweek their characters to fit how they saw them [NOT power
>wise, but laterally, like a confidence man should have more than 3 Charisma
>and Social Ettiquette, instead of 6 Firearms, etc.]. When it was over,
>everyone had a good time. I ended up being voted, MUCH to my surprise [No,
>really!] best player for the tourney. I'd managed to literally sign a deal
>with the devil, seemingly betray my comrades, and the do an about face, and
>take out the NPC bad guy, escape with my now bewildered comrades [one a troll
>who kept giving me noogies on the top of my head!], and keep the NPC's
>datachip for my self! <pats self on back shamelessly!>
> My self agrandizement aside [What?!? If there's anything around here
>bigger than my ego, I want it found and shot right now!], the point I'm
>TRYING to make is, a GM ruling with an IRON HAND doesn't ensure a MUNCHIE
>proof game, where everyone is compatible and gets along. Try the velvet glove
>instead of the mahogany stick. You might get better results. Of course you'll
>run into powergamers and munchies, it comes with the territory. That's life.
>Taking away a player's free will won't eliminate that.
> The game I'm running now, I set the parameters and pretty much let
>everyone design out their own characters. It was MY job as GM to make a
>scenerio that would eventually unite them in a common cause, and maybe
>forming links lasting long after the story's over. Maybe it will work; maybe
>it won't. But I figure I'd at least try, and if my players like the
>'experiment' I think I did okay.
> DOH! Enough talk. Back to the shadows for this ork. Audi.
>
>Kohl.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:56:06 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] [Well, it might be usefull][sort of] Reboot!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Spike proclaimed!!!
>The new season of REBOOT started today....
>
>All I can say is.....WATCH IT!!!!
>
>Kohl replys:
> NEW REBOOT!!!
> And I came into work early cause I thought nothing was on the tv.
> ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
> Thanks for the synopsis though! Guess it'll have to tide me over till I
>can get to see it.
>
>Kohl
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:13:54 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: WotC's Acquisitiveness
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Just thought you people might like to see an official FASA response on
this one...
Lady Jestyr
----------------------------------------------------
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota
monax materiam possit materiari?
----------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
----------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:35:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: FASALou@***.com
Reply-To: earthdawn@*****.iquest.com
To: earthdawn@*****.iquest.com
Subject: Re: [EarthDawn] Disheartening News
Roger Gaudreau wrote:
>>>A couple of friends of mine in the gaming industry with deep contacts at
Wizards of the Coast have told me recently that negotiations between WotC
and FASA are near completion and WotC will be buying FASA in the very
near future. Truly, WotC is becoming the megacorp of the gaming world.<<<
Okay, let's clear this up right now.
Yes, WotC talked with us about this. They talked with virtually *every*
game company about purchasing them.
As for negotiations being nearly completed, this is patently not true.
There were (and are) *no* negotiations between the two companies.
The final word: Are they buying us? *NO*
>>> The reason this news is disheartening is because it probably means the
end of Earthdawn, or at the very least a suspension of the ED production
schedule. WotC bought TSR (as we are all aware), ED competes with AD&D
and ED is not (despite our best efforts) a profitable product line. WotC
has a habit of canceling unprofitable lines (remember when they yanked
Ars Magica 4th ed. *after* it went to the printer), so they'll probably
ditch ED after they buy FASA. We can hope that some other gaming company
with a conscience will pick up the line and continue it (and I hope
they'll publish any manuscripts that have already been written but not
yet printed; I worked hard on Secret Societies). If they somehow decide
to keep ED and the existing ED development intact, then I will finally
believe that miracles really happen.<<<
Okay, let's clear up some errors here...
First off, *if* WotC were to purchase FASA, why would that mean the end of
Earthdawn? Just because it's competitive with AD&D? I don't think so.
If WotC is really trying to become a megacorp, the closest equivalent we
might compare them to is a company like Hasbro, who own *many* other game and
toy companies, including Parker Brothers and Milton Bradely. These two
companies have competitive products, yet we don't see Hasbro killing off
games of one company that compete with another. I believe the same would hold
true if WotC were to buy FASA.
Also, I feel I should point out that when WotC pulled the plug on its RPG
lines, Ars Magica 4th Edition was NOT at the printer. It was close to being
ready, but it hadn't gone to the printer yet. (Of course according to sources
close to Atlas Games, it wasn't all that close to being finished, but that's
a different topic).
>>>Of course, everyone at FASA (especially Lou) will deny this story, 'cause
it probably means their jobs if they confirm it. I suppose that if there
were a single good thing about this, it's the fact that it's not
happening until after the Thera sourcebook reaches the shelves.<<<
Well, you're right about one thing. I'm denying it. But *NOT* because I
fear for my job, but because it's NOT TRUE. Plain and simple.
BTW, even if it was true, I couldn't confirm nor deny anything, and in
fact, a non-commital response would probably be a bigger hint about the truth
than any denial could ever be.
Hope this clears up some things,
Lou Prosperi
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:32:54 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OOC?
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:55:44 -0500"
<3.0.32.19970717095536.009718d0@********>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
You wrote:
> Whoa...back the truck up. The what? Have you ever played Dark Conspiracy?
> If you're going to say that DC is a rip off of Sr, then perhaps you better
> mention how Sr is a rip off of Cyberpunk and AD&D. Or are you just
> mindlessly rude?
And DC is definitely not a ripoff of SR anyway, that's plain silly.
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:26:34 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: [OT] [Well, it might be usefull][sort of] Reboot!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Fisher, Victor wrote:
>
<snip>
You know I love you Vic, but this thing where all of your mail looks
like a reply is driving my nuts. <weep, sob> Is there anything at all
we can do about it that you know of? Are you aware that it is still
happening?
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:00:38 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: [OT] well, it might be...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sorry, guys!
Dammit, thought I'd gotten that bug outta my mailer's system!
Guess you'll be glad not to hear from me for awhile, till I get this
thing nixed.
To my players, I'll make sure you don't have to waid thru any more >>>>,
after this message, so don't fret.
Thanks for the notice, Caric.
Kohl, taking out 'BIG MAMA', and going to have a chat with the boys in
Systems!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:08:10 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!!]
In a message dated 97-07-16 23:41:35 EDT, lobo1@****.COM (John E Pederson)
writes:
>
> Actually, this is how I *always* start out, I just never get anywhere
> (between not managing a game a month and not having a consistent group of
> players, it's damn hard to get a game going for any period of time,
> long-term) Maybe with college in the fall, I'll be able to *play* in a
> game that will last a decent period of time (anyone know of a gaming
> group in Terre Haute, Indiana that's looking for players? :)
>
> -
Too bad Lobo, we're in Lafalot, just north of ya...okay, maybe not -just-
north...
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:19:31 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
In a message dated 97-07-17 03:03:10 EDT, chaos@*****.COM (Bull) writes:
> Heh... Should I post Bull's stats? i think his lowest is now a 5...
<heh>
>
> But then, when you get close to 400 Karma, what the hell do you expect??
> Look at the shit we have to do...
>
>
I would have to say the same thing about Binder actually, though his karma is
a few higher than that.
-Keith (who is really wishing he could get some of these "bigger guys" in one
room for a game, just -ONCE-)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:21:11 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: (IC)Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull? - Results
In a message dated 97-07-17 03:03:47 EDT, bluewizard@*****.COM (Steven A.
Tinner) writes:
>
> Here's what it looks like ... Bull, you sure don't have many well wishers!
>
>
From out of the shadows, a whisper to Decker Bull, carrying the resonant
lightly in its' warmth....
"Beware for foul play is headed your way..."
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:25:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Dragons at the end of an age
In a message dated 97-07-17 08:41:41 EDT, s702399@*******.GU.EDU.AU (SHANE J.
WINZAR) writes:
>
> What exactly happens to dragons (greater or lesser) at the end of the age
> (read magic cycle) , once the magic falls below the threshold wouldn't
> all magical creature die? wither? ummm do the dragons fly of to a
> metaplane with high magic for the duration of the low magic age or do the
> hibernate or something else? thanx in advance,
>
>
One option that we've played out here is that those dracoforms capable of
such actually journey "directly" into the Metaplanes. In our games, Arleesh
(Bottled Demon) did that. This way she was able to continue her existence,
living and growing and developing, during the low mana cycle Earthside.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:26:56 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Nukes vs. Horrors
In a message dated 97-07-17 09:31:06 EDT, NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU
(Bruce H. Nagel) writes:
>
> Nothing wrong with throwing nukes into SR. :) Nothing at all. Now,
Horrors
> who are Astral entities would not be affected except by all the crap
dredged
> up
> in the astral plane from the detonation. Horrors with physical forms
would
> be
> blown to bits, end of fragging list. Horrors can only feed upon pain they
> themselves cause, so it would help them not a whit if they survived.
>
> losthalo
>
>
Uh, (raising hand here) what about the guy who is under the control of a
Wraith at the time that s/he pushes the button?
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:16:31 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: [OT] well, it might be...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Fisher, Victor wrote:
>
> Sorry, guys!
> Dammit, thought I'd gotten that bug outta my mailer's system!
> Guess you'll be glad not to hear from me for awhile, till I get this
> thing nixed.
> To my players, I'll make sure you don't have to waid thru any more >>>>,
> after this message, so don't fret.
> Thanks for the notice, Caric.
>
> Kohl, taking out 'BIG MAMA', and going to have a chat with the boys in
> Systems!
If you write directly, it doesn't do it. It's only when you reply to
something else. I dunno what's causeing it. Hopwfully it's something
simple, I wouldn't want you to run off and not mail us anymore. :)
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:36:30 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: READ FIRST!! (wasRe: Demon Magic - Spoilers for anyone in a ENEMY
type game!!!!!
In a message dated 97-07-17 09:39:39 EDT, schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU (Court
Schuett) writes:
BLAST and DAMN...guy, I honestly forgot the spoilers in my previous posting
of this entry. I am VERY sorry...
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:35:19 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Demon Magic - Spoilers for anyone in a ENEMY type game!!!!!
In a message dated 97-07-17 09:39:39 EDT, schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU (Court
Schuett) writes:
> I agree that they were nasty, but I thought they were just constructs.
> Take a look at the similarities between the Crawlers, and Jethura (sp?)
> Almost positive they are one in the same in which case, SR is in big
> trouble. Cause they really messed up my group of pretty darn powerful
PCs,
> and our ED group can take several Jethura, null sweat.
>
> -=Court
>
A question came up to me concerning ED/SR crossovers with the Horrors. Those
Horrors in the book (Harley and all), have multiple attacks, but the attacks
were considered "slighter" than a principle attack. I may be remembeing
incorrectly on this, I admit.
Anyway, multiple action combat exists in SR, it just requires more. Karma
and Experience in this case. Ambidexterity, Off-Hand, Blind-Fighting, Zero-G
Ops (for the space farers) are all optional "special skills" that could be
developed, and quickly allow for a character to "keep up" with the Horrors.
Okay, maybe not the "Named Horrors", but the one's so far...sure...
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:41:36 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
In a message dated 97-07-17 11:37:51 EDT, topcat@***.NET (TopCat) writes:
>
> I complain when they try to pass off powergaming as the norm and ingrain
> powergaming-level or powergaming beneficial rules in the base systems of a
> game. Powergame all you like, but keep that crap out of the rules and
don't
> even think that it's the way the game was designed to be played. It is a
> way that it can be played, but it wasn't meant to be.
>
>
Hey Topcat, the "Game" was designed to be played at ALL those levels you have
mentioned. It is -Perceived- however a given player or group of players
chooses to do so.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:55:00 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Saving the Team by Self-Sacrifice
In a message dated 97-07-17 16:35:17 EDT, topcat@***.NET (TopCat) writes:
>
> Power is always a decision. You don't accidentally take a PAC, you take
it
> because it is powerful. Deciding to play a powerful character does,
indeed,
> come with responsibilities (and I take each of those very seriously,
though
> many of the players of such characters do not), but there is also the
> responsibility to play the game as a group and within the bounds of a
given
> campaign. If you let a superpowered character into a group of low-powered
> types, it'll ruin the game for all involved. I choose never to let that
> situation occur. Saves me a lot of trouble.
>
No real argument except for the rare one now and again that understand that
for all, and just wants to play. He's not out to, and even takes steps to
ensure, that s/he won't destroy the game.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 21:07:27 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] Should I kill Bull?
On Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:41:11 -0700 Caric <caric@********.COM> writes:
>NightLife wrote:
>>
>> spoiler
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>@
>
>> How that for starters.
>Not bad, but how about this one. It's slightly evil so bear with me.
>Now we have all seen Bull talk about how the magic rules are his week
>spot, and i'll assume that Tinner has read the novel i'm gonna refer to.
>(I think it was the one with Dirk Montgomery in Hawaii, but I might have
>just made that up) Anyway there's this novel where a troll becomes a
>bear shaman I believe, and at the end of the book all of his cyberware
>gets pushed out of his body.
I don't remember the title either, but IIRC it involved Serrin ...and
those darn exploding zombies.
>Bull IMHO acts like a dog shaman, make him one. :)
Ooo there's a twist.
~Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 21:37:48 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Nukes vs. Horrors
On Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:53:35 +0100 Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
writes:
>|I wouldn't bet on the Horror escaping unscathed....
>|
>|B
>|U
>|G
>|
>|C
>|I
>|T
>|Y
>|
>|S
>|P
>|O
>|I
>|L
>|E
>|R
>|S
>|
>|
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>|When they set off the Cermak nuke, it destroyed any manifest
>trueforms
>|(fleshforms also) in the area and knocked the rest of the ones in
>|Chi-town into torpor. I'd expect a similar thing with the
>Enemy...Also,
>|magic apparently cannot affect nuclear radiation. No one knows why,
>it
>|just can't.
>
>I thought the ward contained the majority of the blast at cernac....
It did. Scary, neh? Also goes toward explaining the high background count
at nuclear blast sites, even ones better than a hundred years old (like
Hiroshima and Nagasaki). I'd be watching the Cermak site for the
appearance of the Enemy, high background count and all.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:07:22 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Designs
In a message dated 97-07-17 19:25:45 EDT, topcat@***.NET (TopCat) writes:
>
> If you make the characters before teh setting, you can have continuity and
> association problems (why would an ex-Wildcat hang out with an ex-SEAL and
a
> mage from Tir Tairngire). You can also run into power-level problems
(Troll
> Tank and GBD join a group of gangers...ugh).
>
>
Ya know TC, that whole attitude is a bit strange, but then again we are
talking about the differences in GM approach I think. Sometimes, especially
when the group is really flexible, the ex-Wildcat, the ex-Seal and mage from
Tir getting together can be a really shit-kicking game in and unto itself.
Oh, and by the way, I don't know what kind of stats your examples would
have, but they are -MOST- definitely not the average shadowrunner according
to the examples you've given.
-Keith (who just had to get a quick jibe in somewhere ;)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:08:28 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Victor's Reply Style?
In a message dated 97-07-17 19:38:25 EDT, caric@********.COM writes:
>
> You know I love you Vic, but this thing where all of your mail looks
> like a reply is driving my nuts. <weep, sob> Is there anything at all
> we can do about it that you know of? Are you aware that it is still
> happening?
>
Oh thank god someone else noticed this. I thought I was going even more nuts
than I already am...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:08:08 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: WotC's Acquisitiveness
On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:13:54 +1000 Lady Jestyr
<jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU> writes:
>Just thought you people might like to see an official FASA response on
>this one...
<snip rest of message>
Yippee!!
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:12:22 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Sorry....
On Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:52:04 -0500 Barbie <barbie@**********.COM> writes:
>To solve such postings from the beginning would it not be better
>if the listserver put a sig of its own at the bottom of each mail
>thats states
>how to get help or how to signoff?
>
>The rolemasterlist does just that and no such questions had arise
>since then and I thing its worth the little more lines.
But seriously is that extra baggage on EACH AND EVERY POST worth the few
times that it pops up?
~Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:12:22 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
On Wed, 16 Jul 1997 17:07:14 -0500 TopCat <topcat@***.NET> writes:
[a bunch of stuff ending with.....
>Now what's more pathetic, Adam: having fun playing a realistic campaign
of
>SR or having fun playing a powergamer/munchkin campaign? ]
Ah, shut the hell up. And drop that lame-ass condecending
ego/attitude/arrogance crap.
If you want to debate game powerlevels and gaming styles then be my
guest, just do it with out resorting to calling anyone in opposition to
your gaming preferences/styles "pathetic".. it does nothing to strengthen
your argument (never mind that it's topic is entirely a matter of
opinion)
~Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:16:43 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Designs [was: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin'
In a message dated 97-07-17 20:35:23 EDT, mike@******.VERINET.COM (Mike
Loseke) writes:
>
> > Now this sounds like I am borderline absurdly flexible in what I'll let
> into
> > my game. Remember that I set the game, then have the characters made to
> fit
> > it, then let it play out.
>
> Do you make all of the characters yourself to fit the campaign, or do you
> give some guidelines for the players to use?
>
>
I think this part of the discussion is what I was personally stuck on. The
way that TC first mentioned (It was you wasn't it? damn but long threads can
get tricky), it sounded like TC was being, as mentioned elsewhere "fascist".
But after the better definition, TC's game didn't sound all that different
from the one's here in their origins.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:33:31 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: (OT) Tom Cone (Brother1)
I apologize for this method of approach, but Tom Cone (Brother1@*****....)
has apparently dropped beyond the reach of my mailer at AOL to reach. Tom,
if you are reading this, let me know, so I can get something to work for you
in the PBEM.
Thanks
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 21:58:34 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: FASA FOR SALE - NOT!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From: FASALou@***.com
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:35:32 -0400 (EDT)
To: earthdawn@*****.iquest.com
Subject: Re: [EarthDawn] Disheartening News
Reply-to: earthdawn@*****.iquest.com
Roger Gaudreau wrote:
>>>A couple of friends of mine in the gaming industry with deep contacts at
Wizards of the Coast have told me recently that negotiations between WotC
and FASA are near completion and WotC will be buying FASA in the very
near future. Truly, WotC is becoming the megacorp of the gaming world.<<<
Okay, let's clear this up right now.
Yes, WotC talked with us about this. They talked with virtually *every*
game company about purchasing them.
As for negotiations being nearly completed, this is patently not true.
There were (and are) *no* negotiations between the two companies.
The final word: Are they buying us? *NO*
>>> The reason this news is disheartening is because it probably means the
end of Earthdawn, or at the very least a suspension of the ED production
schedule. WotC bought TSR (as we are all aware), ED competes with AD&D
and ED is not (despite our best efforts) a profitable product line. WotC
has a habit of canceling unprofitable lines (remember when they yanked
Ars Magica 4th ed. *after* it went to the printer), so they'll probably
ditch ED after they buy FASA. We can hope that some other gaming company
with a conscience will pick up the line and continue it (and I hope
they'll publish any manuscripts that have already been written but not
yet printed; I worked hard on Secret Societies). If they somehow decide
to keep ED and the existing ED development intact, then I will finally
believe that miracles really happen.<<<
Okay, let's clear up some errors here...
First off, *if* WotC were to purchase FASA, why would that mean the end of
Earthdawn? Just because it's competitive with AD&D? I don't think so.
If WotC is really trying to become a megacorp, the closest equivalent we
might compare them to is a company like Hasbro, who own *many* other game and
toy companies, including Parker Brothers and Milton Bradely. These two
companies have competitive products, yet we don't see Hasbro killing off
games of one company that compete with another. I believe the same would hold
true if WotC were to buy FASA.
Also, I feel I should point out that when WotC pulled the plug on its RPG
lines, Ars Magica 4th Edition was NOT at the printer. It was close to being
ready, but it hadn't gone to the printer yet. (Of course according to sources
close to Atlas Games, it wasn't all that close to being finished, but that's
a different topic).
>>>Of course, everyone at FASA (especially Lou) will deny this story, 'cause
it probably means their jobs if they confirm it. I suppose that if there
were a single good thing about this, it's the fact that it's not
happening until after the Thera sourcebook reaches the shelves.<<<
Well, you're right about one thing. I'm denying it. But *NOT* because I
fear for my job, but because it's NOT TRUE. Plain and simple.
BTW, even if it was true, I couldn't confirm nor deny anything, and in
fact, a non-commital response would probably be a bigger hint about the truth
than any denial could ever be.
Hope this clears up some things,
Lou Prosperi
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 21:58:34 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: FASA FOR SALE - NOT!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From: FASALou@***.com
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:37:31 -0400 (EDT)
To: earthdawn@*****.iquest.com
Subject: Re: [EarthDawn] Disheartening News
Reply-to: earthdawn@*****.iquest.com
Tom Harrison writes:
>>>I think, my friend, that you have been the victim of another insidious
rumor. Of course, I could be wrong - such is the nature of rumors. But in
any case, I feel that ED has more to fear from FASA than WotC.<<<
Uh, would you care to explain this last line? Do you some issues with the
manner in which FASA is handling Earthdawn? I'm NOT being oversensitive
(which is my trademark reaction), I honestly want to know what you mean by
this.
Curious,
Lou Prosperi
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 21:58:35 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Off to Texas!!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Well I'm off to Texas..I'll be gone for about 10 days..Or so..See ya
later...
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:01:13 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] well, it might be...
In-Reply-To: <33CEB5DF.3AF2@********.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 05:16 PM 7/17/97 -0700, Caric wrote:
#Fisher, Victor wrote:
#>
#> Sorry, guys!
#> Dammit, thought I'd gotten that bug outta my mailer's system!
#> Guess you'll be glad not to hear from me for awhile, till I get this
#> thing nixed.
#> To my players, I'll make sure you don't have to waid thru any more >>>>,
#> after this message, so don't fret.
#> Thanks for the notice, Caric.
#>
#> Kohl, taking out 'BIG MAMA', and going to have a chat with the boys in
#> Systems!
#
#If you write directly, it doesn't do it. It's only when you reply to
#something else. I dunno what's causeing it. Hopwfully it's something
#simple, I wouldn't want you to run off and not mail us anymore. :)
Are you sure it's not some sort of "Auto-Format"
I havent used outlook in a while, so I forget how it works
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:59:11 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] Fish & Chips (Was Re: Hacking)
In-Reply-To: <199707170913.LAA19078@**********.xs4all.nl>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
#>At 11:14 AM 7/17/97 +0100, you wrote:
#The only way to eat chips is with mayonaise or with peanut sauce...
NOOOOOoooooOOOOOO
Tomato Sauce or gravy or chicken salt
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:05:05 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: A New Thread for Gurth
In-Reply-To: <11122.199707171200@****.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:00 PM 7/17/97 +0100, you wrote:
#|which makes me ask the question, what countries besides Australia was that
#|movie called "Flying High"?
#
#
#
#Flying high???
#
#What was "Airplane II: the sequal" called?
Flying High 2
what else?
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:19:32 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Designs [was: Re: We Don't Need No
Stinkin'Munchies!!!]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:52 PM 7/17/97 -0400, Victor wrote:
>Top Cat ranted, standing upon podium, beating chest:
Now now, Victor, it was all rather logical and nice...
>Design the campaign, work with the players to get the characters to
>mesh, then go from there... formula for a perfect campaign.
>To which Kohl replys:
>Okay! First off, I've got to say, TopCat, you bring a whole new
>meaning to GM fasism!
You forgot the "c" in fascism and no, I don't...
>Design the campaign, design out the characters, dictate who goes and
>knows where and what? Why don't you just play all the PCs and NPCs yourself?
I don't make the characters. I just design the campaign (if I'm running it
that is). The players design the characters, I just provide the campaign
setting and "ok" characters for it. I don't dictate who goes where or does
what either. I do, however play the NPCs. I'm the GM, it's what I do.
Where you getting all this from, Victor? My words are nowhere near what
you've interpreted them as...
>The whole point of the game is to allow the players to run a character
>they LIKE to run, WITHIN REASON. NOT dictate to them what they can and cannot
>have or do!
Perhaps your point of the game is this, but if the GM doesn't enjoy running
the game then it's all rather moot, don't you think? It should be enjoyed
by all. A campaign is proposed by a GM. Anyone who wants in it makes a
character. If nobody wants in it, the campaign never gets going and a
different campaign or game is played. If some people want in and others
don't, that's fine and the game gets played while the others play a
different campaign or game.
>I ran into a GM like that during a gaming convention in Buffalo, when I
>was visiting a couple of friends. He had the whole thing laid out to a T,
>with NO flexibility for personalization whatso ever! And it was a tournament
>game slated for 3 nights! having been a Gm for awhile, I can tell someone new
>to the game, so I figured I'd play dumb, like I'd wasn't familiar with the
>game, and just enjoy the ride [OKAY, I'm an EVIL person! Never said I was an
>angel.]
Conventions are not exactly the kind of places to go to find an open-ended
sort of game. Events are designed to be run a certain way and to utilize
certain characters toward a certain end. They aren't wide-open campaigns
nor could they be such as most must fit into a 2-4 hour time slot. Con
tournaments are a really bad example for you to use here. Even
company-sponsored games hand out pre-made characters and have a solid
plotline to follow with little room for one's creative urges. There just
isn't enough time for one to plumb the depths of character.
Also, tournament events are run in a manner where characters gain points
based on how they go through the motions in comparison to other players who
have also gone through said tournament. They have to be run fairly strictly
for that simple reason, the characters have to be static, as do the NPCs.
That's how they work...
>But as the game went on, it became more apparent that the whole thing
>was just set up so the Gm could see HIS characters played out in HIS story
>HIS way. Having a viscious streak a klick long, I proceeded to use my
>familiarity with the game, mechanics and setting, to 'accelerate'a little
>chaos into the game.
So the guy was a "Bad GM" and you chose to be "the annoying player".
Both
are out there and they'll make the game suck for anyone else involved. I
just avoid 'em and I don't emulate them in any way, shape, or form. Boy,
were you WAY off-base here... heh
> After the end of the first session, he asked me when we were leaving if
>I'd played before, and I said a little. I suggested he shouldn't be so heavy
>handed in pushing his players, and things would go easier. I was still
>enjoying myself, and thought the storyline was pretty decent.
> The following two days actually were a bit more fun. He allowed the rest
>of the group to tweek their characters to fit how they saw them [NOT power
>wise, but laterally, like a confidence man should have more than 3 Charisma
>and Social Ettiquette, instead of 6 Firearms, etc.]. When it was over,
>everyone had a good time. I ended up being voted, MUCH to my surprise [No,
>really!] best player for the tourney.
[snip]
Of course they awarded you, it sounds like you singlehandedly did the event
yourself. You also argued to get their characters stats improved and
everyone likes that. You really thought that you wouldn't be voted best
player after doing the latter?
As a person who doesn't sign up for many con gaming events (I tend to head
toward seminars, but there are a few games that I like to hit), I would
never have found myself facing a GM who designed tournament characters
poorly for their purpose and arranged the thing as a showcase for his NPCs.
You, however, did. Now, there are two things that could be true here...
1) The GM really wasn't bad, but you perceived him as such mainly due to the
fact that you're unfamiliar with tournament-style gaming (your description
of what you saw and how it made you feel clearly expresses this).
2) He really was bad and, through your help, he experienced an epiphany and
changed his ways halfway through the event.
My guess is that #1 is true and that the guy just didn't think through his
premade PCs for the event and realized that they couldn't do what they were
required to do in this tournament event without some minor changes. He made
the changes and everything moved on from there.
>My self agrandizement aside [What?!? If there's anything around here
>bigger than my ego, I want it found and shot right now!], the point I'm
>TRYING to make is, a GM ruling with an IRON HAND doesn't ensure a MUNCHIE
>proof game, where everyone is compatible and gets along. Try the velvet glove
>instead of the mahogany stick. You might get better results. Of course you'll
>run into powergamers and munchies, it comes with the territory. That's life.
>Taking away a player's free will won't eliminate that.
I've never taken away a player's free will. If they want to play a
powergame or a munchkin game, they can find another campaign. If they want
in the current game they'll abide by the basic layout of the campaign. They
get to make their own characters, do their own things, and face the
consequences of their actions. I need no "iron hand" and there are no
munchkins in my game. There are powergamers, but the characters they play
aren't powergamed because the current campaign wasn't designed for
powergamed characters. People still get to play what they want to play
within the realm of the campaign.
Thankfully, I have an entire group of intelligent players who can handle, as
well as appreciate, a variety of campaigns within a variety of games. There
are always other games to play. If they don't want to play mine, they play
someone else's. If I don't want to play their's, I play someone else's.
Everyone gets to do what they want how they want to do it. No player is
forced into something he doesn't want to do, no GM is forced into running
something he doesn't want to run. See how this works? Gaming Utopia...
> The game I'm running now, I set the parameters and pretty much let
>everyone design out their own characters. It was MY job as GM to make a
>scenerio that would eventually unite them in a common cause, and maybe
>forming links lasting long after the story's over. Maybe it will work; maybe
>it won't. But I figure I'd at least try, and if my players like the
>'experiment' I think I did okay.
I find it positively hilarious that you say "I set the parameters" (which is
all that I do and all that I stated that I do) and yet, you don't set the
parameters at all because you claim to let everyone design their characters
pretty much at will. You don't set the parameters because there's a good
chance that they might come from places all over the world and would have no
reason to be anywhere near each other let alone working with each other.
You could have characters that, due to their backgrounds, despise each other
and they'd kill or refuse to work with each other from the very start. You
could have to set up opposition to combat powergamed characters that will
instantly obliterate the characters that aren't powergamed or you could have
to set up the opposition at the levels of non-powergamed characters and
watch as the powergamers kill them all before they get to act. Sounds like
a terrible start to a campaign to me...
Characters should have a location in common, similar power (not combat,
power... there is a difference) levels, and should have a campaign premise
that they fit into. Once they have that, the campaign can begin. Contacts
in common help a great deal as do similar backgrounds, but neither is required.
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:19:46 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Designs [was: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin'
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 04:20 PM 7/17/97 -0600, Mike wrote:
>This is exactly the approach that we have always taken, especially with
>Shadowrun. The setting lends itself more to this type of setup than
>many other game settings. It also encourages the players to think more,
>and since this is a mental game anyway, thinking is good.
Agreed :)
>> Now this sounds like I am borderline absurdly flexible in what I'll let into
>> my game. Remember that I set the game, then have the characters made to fit
>> it, then let it play out.
>Do you make all of the characters yourself to fit the campaign, or do you
>give some guidelines for the players to use?
Hell no! I'm too lazy to do that. I guess it could be said that I give
guidelines though it's more me giving help in chargen.
>> If you make the characters before teh setting, you can have continuity and
>> association problems (why would an ex-Wildcat hang out with an ex-SEAL and a
>> mage from Tir Tairngire). You can also run into power-level problems (Troll
>> Tank and GBD join a group of gangers...ugh).
> I'll share what we did on our newest campaign. The GM (Travis this time)
>announced that he would be running a campaign and told us what the
>specific limitations were, as well as which optional/house rules we
>should pay close attention to while creating our characters. He did
>not specify what type of characters we should make.
>[snip]
> We came up with a refreshing mix: 2 hermetic mages, 1 PhysAd, 1 rigger,
>a decker (who's now an NPC), a face-man and 2 B&E types. Note, we do
>not have a single street sam or merc. We've put some 20 hours into this
>campaign so far and the group is working like a finely tuned machine.
>It promises to be one of the more enjoyable campaigns too, if we can
>keep it going and not be disturbed by too many spouses too often...
Sounds good to me. The GM gave the players a level to be at and rules to
know. I assume that he also gave basic campaign information (e.g. B&E team,
Lone Star undercover, gangers, organized crime, whatever). That's all I
did. I run it at a "realistic" level where it's bad to be noticed and
things that are tough are *tough*. The city was chosen beforehand, as was
the number of chargen points. I didn't tell anyone what to make, nor would
I have done that. I helped almost everyone make their characters, though
that was because I was asked to do so.
>In our group experience, doing things this way has always been the best
>method when starting a campaign. We've experimented with the GM handing
>out pre-made characters for the players to use and that didn't last
>too long. In fact, only one character made it out of that campaign
>to play in one or two more (Cherry, the psycho gang chick...).
I'll never hand out premades for a campaign. I do it at conventions all the
time though, because not doing so there *will* cause all manner of
headaches. ("I play a first edition physad" is something all GMs love to
hear...)
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:15:41 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: listserv idea was Re: Sorry....
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970717124540.006f1f60@***>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
#If the additional text lines is about four lines and it's on every message,
#when someone posts a short message like yours (which I quoted for
#illustration) you get five lines of message, sixteen lines of your sig
#(counting from the em-dash to the last blank line), and four more lines
#from the list server. Result? Five lines of new content, twenty lines of
#information we'd see on dozens of messages.
but if it were one additional line, say,
Administrivia : <email address>
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:24:30 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:12 PM 7/17/97 EDT, you wrote:
>On Wed, 16 Jul 1997 17:07:14 -0500 TopCat <topcat@***.NET> writes:
>[a bunch of stuff ending with.....
>>Now what's more pathetic, Adam: having fun playing a realistic campaign
>>of SR or having fun playing a powergamer/munchkin campaign? ]
>Ah, shut the hell up. And drop that lame-ass condecending
>ego/attitude/arrogance crap.
Heh... no. Fuck off ;)
>If you want to debate game powerlevels and gaming styles then be my
>guest, just do it with out resorting to calling anyone in opposition to
>your gaming preferences/styles "pathetic".. it does nothing to strengthen
>your argument (never mind that it's topic is entirely a matter of
>opinion)
Just using our own beloved admins words... perhaps take that up with him?
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:30:44 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:41 PM 7/17/97 -0400, Keith wrote:
>In a message dated 97-07-17 11:37:51 EDT, topcat@***.NET (TopCat) writes:
>> I complain when they try to pass off powergaming as the norm and ingrain
>> powergaming-level or powergaming beneficial rules in the base systems of a
>> game. Powergame all you like, but keep that crap out of the rules and
>> don't
>> even think that it's the way the game was designed to be played. It is a
>> way that it can be played, but it wasn't meant to be.
>Hey Topcat, the "Game" was designed to be played at ALL those levels you
have
>mentioned. It is -Perceived- however a given player or group of players
>chooses to do so.
And as long as certain changes don't occur it'll be able to be played at all
of those levels well into the future of the game. If they do occur, then
powergaming becomes the standard. There are low-, mid-, high, and
munch-level campaigns out there. Shadowrun as it is now appeals to all.
Start making the base rules high-level instead of mid-level and everything
has to jump a notch in power to stay balanced. The game becomes as Rifts or
D&D.
Here's a quote from Mike Broadwater which explains my personal standpoint on
this quite well...
"I don't think that TC's arguement is against the way they play, but it's
against rules being dictated to everyone because of the way they play
(Spells should be stronger because they run a game where the opponents are
stronger). Bob is right, an average spell cast by an average caster should
have an average effect on an average person. That keeps it balanced. If
you want your magic to do more, then be a better caster, or change the
balance in a direction you favor. But, if you start out with the system
unbalanced, that requires more effort on more people to change the system
back to a point where it is balanced. And in the mean time, you have
people pimping the rules for all they're worth."
Get where I'm coming from?
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 00:33:25 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:30:44 -0500"
<199707180430.XAA05370@*******.fgi.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
You wrote:
> Here's a quote from Mike Broadwater which explains my personal standpoint on
> this quite well...
> "I don't think that TC's arguement is against the way they play, but it's
> against rules being dictated to everyone because of the way they play
> (Spells should be stronger because they run a game where the opponents are
> stronger). Bob is right, an average spell cast by an average caster should
> have an average effect on an average person. That keeps it balanced. If
> you want your magic to do more, then be a better caster, or change the
> balance in a direction you favor. But, if you start out with the system
> unbalanced, that requires more effort on more people to change the system
> back to a point where it is balanced. And in the mean time, you have
> people pimping the rules for all they're worth."
> Get where I'm coming from?
Y'know, I think I've vehemently disagreed with you on occasion, Bob, but that
makes sense and I agree completely. If the system starts at a simple balance,
it's easy to modify to what you want (I modify games a lot, and some *are* a
pain because they rely too much on the balance expected of the characters in
the campaign). SR is currently comfy as-is, power-wise, and tinkering should
be kept to things which don't alter that balance in favor of any sort of
character, imo.
I hope this was a little more than a 'me too'.
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:38:56 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Designs
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:07 PM 7/17/97 -0400, Keith wrote:
>In a message dated 97-07-17 19:25:45 EDT, topcat@***.NET (TopCat) writes:
>>If you make the characters before teh setting, you can have continuity and
>>association problems (why would an ex-Wildcat hang out with an ex-SEAL and
>>a mage from Tir Tairngire). You can also run into power-level problems
>>(Troll Tank and GBD join a group of gangers...ugh).
>Ya know TC, that whole attitude is a bit strange, but then again we are
>talking about the differences in GM approach I think. Sometimes, especially
>when the group is really flexible, the ex-Wildcat, the ex-Seal and mage from
>Tir getting together can be a really shit-kicking game in and unto itself.
Okay, here's how this would look... ex-Wildcat finds an ex-SEAL and they
want to work together. Couldn't find two groups perhaps more opposed to
each other (NAN and CAS). Throw in a Tir mage (everyone hates the elves)
and it's a party! There's no real reason for them to be together (and yes,
anyone can come up with some BS story that'll link 'em, but BS by any other
name still stinks).
> Oh, and by the way, I don't know what kind of stats your examples would
>have, but they are -MOST- definitely not the average shadowrunner according
>to the examples you've given.
Ahh, but Shadowrun isn't just for Shadowrunners anymore (kinda like beer and
breakfast that way)... I think we all know that much by now. Also, in
comparison to some of the things I've seen posted here, GBD and Troll Tank
might well mesh right into a lot of campaigns out there.
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:59:42 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: listserv idea was Re: Sorry....
In-Reply-To: <yam7137.214.136476600@****.amigaworld.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
zAt 18:52 7/17/97 -0500, you wrote:
>To solve such postings from the beginning would it not be better
>if the listserver put a sig of its own at the bottom of each mail thats
states
>how to get help or how to signoff?
>
>The rolemasterlist does just that and no such questions had arise since then
>and I thing its worth the little more lines.
Another mailing list I'm on does it, and people still ask every week how to
unsubscribe, or they say it does't work.
Its not an idea I would throw out, but I really don't think its all that
nessesary.
-Adam
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:23:44 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Dragons at the end of an age
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---Max Rible wrote:
>
> At 11:12 7/17/97 -0500, Mike Elkins wrote:
> >>What exactly happens to dragons (greater or
> >>lesser) at the end of the age
Possible Spoilers for Maria Mercurial and others.
W
E
L
L
M
A
Y
B
E
N
O
T
R
E
A
L
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
Still, I thought I'd play it safe. For those who have read the
background for Perinwyr and Kyle Morgan, remember that it describes
Perianwyr waking from hibernation and being real hungry so he gorged
himself on a nearby herd of sheep.
Now, Perianwyr isn't a great dragon so this would seem to imply that
both great and lesser dragons both go into a sleep or stasis during
times of low/no mana.
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 01:49:32 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Argh!!!
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I hate you all!
I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
Argh!!!!!!!!!!
:]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 00:57:50 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: I guess it had to happen sometime;
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I don't know if I just don't watch enough tv or what, but I saw an add
for "Magic The Gathering" on the sci-fi channel. If WotC is going to buy
FASA, they better stop advertising and save their money. I assume that
WotC does the card game. I don't play myself. I don't have the money to
indulge a Shadowrun addiction and a Magic addiciton. Some of my freinds
that are really into magic have sunk hundreds of $$ into that game. If
had sunk that much I would have an almost complete library.
regards
Bill
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 01:13:44 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Court Schuett <schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Demon Magic - Spoilers for anyone in a ENEMY type game!!!!!
In-Reply-To: <970717203516_243014202@*******.mail.aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:35 PM 7/17/97 -0400, Keith wrote:
>
>A question came up to me concerning ED/SR crossovers with the Horrors. Those
>Horrors in the book (Harley and all), have multiple attacks, but the attacks
>were considered "slighter" than a principle attack. I may be remembeing
>incorrectly on this, I admit.
I just happened to have my copy of Harley's Back sitting on the computer
desk, so... :)
The Crawlers go at 7+4d6, fast, an average of 21, that's 3 times a round,
plus they get two attacks for every init. phase, now we're talking 6 times
a round, plus, if both of those hit, they get an extra, for a maximum of 9
times a round. Granted the third attack *just* reduces reaction. :) Well,
they get 13 attack dice, plus a threat rating of 6, that's 19 dice just to
attack. I don't know many runners that could take that. So the runners
are probably going to get hit twice, and maybe slowed down a bit. The only
thing that they don't get is a reach modifier. If they had that, they'd be
just about unstoppable. Personally I kicked it down to 1 attack a phase.
I just couldn't kill the characters at the very beginning of the whole
adventure. But don't tell them that, they still think they're really
tough. :) *shhh* :)
>Anyway, multiple action combat exists in SR, it just requires more. Karma
>and Experience in this case. Ambidexterity, Off-Hand, Blind-Fighting, Zero-G
>Ops (for the space farers) are all optional "special skills" that could be
>developed, and quickly allow for a character to "keep up" with the Horrors.
> Okay, maybe not the "Named Horrors", but the one's so far...sure...
The only problem with these, at least Ambi, off-hand, is that they take
incredible (and I think mostly rightfully so) penalties to attack, making
it almost impossible to hit. BTW, what is Zero-G fighting? Must have
missed that. Is that in the Missions adventures? Is that any good?
>-Keith
P.S. No prob about no spoilers, my group already ran through HB.
-=Court
/* Court Schuett, a totally modern boy.
schuett@*****.ivcc.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If I was God no one would doubt it
We wouldn't need church to get
The mystery that we once knew
The something we forget
-Too Much Joy
***************************************************************************/
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 01:26:23 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Court Schuett <schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970718014901.26dfecfc@*****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:49 AM 7/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I hate you all!
>I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
>Argh!!!!!!!!!!
>:]
>Bull
Oh that's good. :) But you should have seen some of the other ideas. You
got off pretty easy. :) There are some truly evil and imaginitive people
out there.
What'd the wife and kids have to say about this one?
-=Court
/* Court Schuett, a totally modern boy.
schuett@*****.ivcc.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If I was God no one would doubt it
We wouldn't need church to get
The mystery that we once knew
The something we forget
-Too Much Joy
***************************************************************************/
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 02:32:20 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> > Whoa...back the truck up. The what? Have you ever played Dark
Conspiracy?
> > If you're going to say that DC is a rip off of Sr, then perhaps you
better
> > mention how Sr is a rip off of Cyberpunk and AD&D. Or are you just
> > mindlessly rude?
> And DC is definitely not a ripoff of SR anyway, that's plain silly.
Yep, I played a LOT of DC when it first came out, and it left me cold.
Poor systems "borrowed" from T2000, lack of any useful Psionics for PC's
and the need to buy several sourcebooks to actually make the game playable
left me quite disillusioned with what could have been a great game.
You mean to say that you don't find it slightly curious that GDW dumped DC
onto the market almost immediately after SR became hot? Have you read
Stackpole's "Fiddleback" Trilogy set in the DC world? It's VERY similar to
SR IMO.
Oh, and SR is actually a ripoff of Cyberpunk, and Tolkien, get it right!
;-)
Did I ever say that being a ripoff was a BAD thing? No.
On the whole I thought that DC had a LOT of potential, but was hindered by
a shabby rules system, and a lack of support.
Oh yeah, one more thing. I'm never "mindlessly" anything.
My rudeness is carefully thought out just so as to give seizures to
hypersensitive people defending dead games.
That pretty much sums up my feelings on the merits of DC. It died, SR
lives. Nuff said.
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:53:08 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: Oh Do Shut Up Already!!!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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I really couldn't care less who thinks who is egotistical. Keep it off
the list, it has nothing to do with Shadowrun. Differing views are just
those. Differing views. If you don't agree, give a read, throw it in the
back of your closeted mind, and go on with life. Don't beat the fact
that you don't agree, or have strong opinions about someone on list.
(Here Spike, you can have you list.member.grumpy hat back)
And fyi, I enjoy reading the posts, I get an insight to what others
views are, even if they aren't mine.
--
Dvixen Code-word : Weevil-chuck. dvixen@********.com
"I'd rather have a face people fear." - Ivanova - Babylon 5
Vodka corrupts. Abolut Vodka corrupts absolutely.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 01:51:21 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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I'll admit I never played DC (or for that matter a lot of other RPGs on
the market) but I do play SR and was just wondering.
Cyberpunk defiantly had it's influence on SR but where is Tolken and
AD&D in it? (I played the comp. game of tolken's, never got around to
the flesh version.) could you straighten me out? Thanks
Caun :}
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 03:03:53 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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> I'll admit I never played DC (or for that matter a lot of other RPGs on
> the market) but I do play SR and was just wondering.
> Cyberpunk defiantly had it's influence on SR but where is Tolken and
> AD&D in it? (I played the comp. game of tolken's, never got around to
> the flesh version.) could you straighten me out? Thanks
Your'e kidding, right? ;-)
Elves, trolls, etc. ... these weren't just things created by Gary Gygax for
AD&D.
Tolkien's Lord of the Rings Trilogy has had an influence in nearly every
modern fantasy novel and game.
If you really haven't read The Hobbit, and the Trilogy, you owe it to
yourself to do so.
After all, then you'll understand why no one wants to see Imoortal Elves in
SR! ;-)
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 02:22:01 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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I read the Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings (not the next two though,
school kicked in and never got back to them) but I figured that most
races were already conceived when Tolken wrote his masterpieces, weren't
they the based on mythology? I personally never doubted in them (I was
grown up on Fantasy) He does have a great influence over all Fantasy
though, you're right, Thanks J. R.R. Tolken, (RIP) what about AD&D in SR
I can't spot anything except they started RPG as Tolken apparently
started the Fantasy genre. That all the connection?
Caun :}
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:10:25 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Define "munchkin"
In-Reply-To: <1A13CC30B8@**.opp.psu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Brett Borger said on 8:11/17 Jul 97...
> > that adds 10 to his Quickness and
> > +5D6 to his Reaction, which has been magic-proofed so no magic can affect
> > him, and who is firing special armor-piercing EX explosive rounds
> > with an orichalcum jacket and a FAB core from the Vanquisher is
> > probably a munchkin.
>
> Probably?
Okay, "most likely a munchkin" then. But I'm not going to say "definitely
a munchkin" because I believe in almost never saying never :)
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:10:25 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Define "munchkin"
In-Reply-To: <yam7137.2548.136476600@****.amigaworld.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Barbie said on 18:51/17 Jul 97...
> I would define a munchkin as someone who wants the most powerfull
> being in the universe under his controll.
> He wants all at an instand and for free, if he can`t get it he will cheat to
> get it.
I'd add that the munchkin probably doesn't think of it that way -- he or
she will likely think that such a character is cool, without consciously
going through a book looking for rules to break.
> The other players and the gm are just tools for him to live out his
> profile neurosis.
Only if they let him, and my guess is that you'll find munchkins mostly
in new groups and in groups who don't have much or even any contact with
other roleplayers.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Don't you ever wonder if you ARE wasting your life?"
"Only when I'm awake."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 03:29:33 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: GEEK CODE?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On all your messages I get this at the bootom of the message:
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version 3.1:
> GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
> Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
what is it, why do I get it, and does anybody else find it anoying or
even get it?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 01:48:04 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: Re: GEEK CODE?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Caun Haskins wrote:
>
> On all your messages I get this at the bootom of the message:
>
> > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> > Version 3.1:
> > GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
> > Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
> > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
>
> what is it, why do I get it, and does anybody else find it anoying or
> even get it?
It's the Geek Code, which was invented/whatever by the person resonsible
for bringing ShadowRN into existance. It's a way of telling everyone
things about yoursefl with very little space.
More info at:
http://krypton.mankato.msus.edu/~hayden/.codes/geek3.1.html
(Tho the site was down when I post this. Should be up soon, I hope)
--
Dvixen Code-word : Weevil-chuck. dvixen@********.com
"I'd rather have a face people fear." - Ivanova - Babylon 5
Vodka corrupts. Abolut Vodka corrupts absolutely.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 02:46:31 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: GEEK CODE?
In-Reply-To: <33CDE5EE.7C087F8D@*********.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:29 7/17/97 -0600, you wrote:
>On all your messages I get this at the bootom of the message:
>
>> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
>> Version 3.1:
>> GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
>> Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
>> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
>
>what is it, why do I get it, and does anybody else find it anoying or
>even get it?
Its Robert Haydens invention, to truly show how geeky you are. The letters
and symbols stand for different things. You get it because its in Gurth's
sig, and in mine, and in many other peoples. I find it rather funny,
because you can learn things about other people without actualy asking.
The URL for learning more about it is at
http://krypton.mankato.msus.edu/~hayden/geek.html
-Aj
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 18:27:08 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Totems
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970718000038.006de63c@*****.com.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 00:00 18/07/97 +1000, Glenn Munro wrote:
>I have to disagree here. Hermetic mages study to learn their magic often
>using mathematical formulas and the like. Those that even bother to try you
>would expect to have average and above willpowers. Then with the shamanic
>tradition why would a totem choose low willpowered individuals? The totem
^^^^^^^
>wants to advance its own cause and would choose the best people for that
>job and people with low willpower generally would not suit.
<grin> What?!?! Damn. I thought totems were just a convenient mental
magical crutch for the shaman. No more real than any other hallucination.
</grin>
Seriously though. Have the members of this list concluded that the totems
are real - objectively and substantively real? This seems a bit too AD&Dish
for me.
Chris
_______________________________________________________________
Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 01:59:37 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: Re: GEEK CODE?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Adam J wrote:
> The URL for learning more about it is at
> http://krypton.mankato.msus.edu/~hayden/geek.html
Damnit! That would explain why the one I have isn't working.
--
Dvixen Code-word : Weevil-chuck. dvixen@********.com
"And I thought First Ones were rare." - Ivanova - Babylon 5
First High Priest of the Church of the Squooshy Ball.
Been there, done that, got the tshirt, wore it out. Now what do I wear?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:19:54 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Clen Cook <Clen@******.CO.ZA>
Subject: Munchkins - (Slight Rant)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Let's face it - weren't we all Munchkins in the beginning?
I know I was. Create an AD&D character - something unique
and guaranteed to hack the other players off - like a Ninja
or something ridiculous like that. Give him so many abilities,
weapons and skills that he could conceivably take over the
world by himself - and GO WILD!
That was fun, for a while. But then I grew up, and started
role-playing. Most of the people I've played with have gone
through that "power" phase. But we got over it, and enjoyed
playing varied characters. Everything from hopeless rejects
to mighty heroes etc etc . . .
Hopefully some of the munchkins out there will either grow up
themselves, or meet a benevolent GM who knows how to play, and
they'll be willing to "learn".
Clen
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 04:17:48 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Totems
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> What?!?! Damn. I thought totems were just a convenient mental
> magical crutch for the shaman. No more real than any other hallucination.
>
Wow this calls into question how we perceive magic! are very beliefs!!
well me personally, I believe that totems are actual spirits that guide
their shaman through life. (shaman talking) but if you are a hermetic
mage and think that magic is just impersonal ethernic (how do you spell
that?) energy, than it's merely a hallucination, whether real or not
they can effect life for me and that makes them real enough! !! !!!well
as I've said I haven't played much D&D so that I can't effectively
comment on. but I'll ask this, Is this a bad thing? (I really wand to
know)
enough said?
Caun :}
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:31:59 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Addiction
In-Reply-To: <19970717.175015.2742.0.arcaneacuity@****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Charles R Joseph said on 17:22/17 Jul 97...
> >NOBODY
> >using those rules will live longer than 10 weeks once addicted, because one
> >physical and one stun box are lost from the Condition Monitor each
> >week...
>
> Geez...that's awfully realistic.
How do you figure that, then?
> I can see drugs being a bit more potent in 2058, but Christ...can't have
> much of a drug culture with everyone dying all the time. I guess they
> have their reasons for wanting to discourage junkie characters, same as
> with any other "bad" element. One has to keep up appearances.
I think it's PR -- if the right-wingers in the US see FASA, a hideously
evil gaming company, bring out material that seems to encourage drug use,
sales will suffer. Oh, well, there's always house rules :)
> I don't know about that. It seems to me that there should be
> more mental and less physical side effects. However, since my character
> uses both BTLs and chemical drugs, that would only fuck my character up
> even more...which I don't particularly mind as long as he still has some
> semblance of usefulness, real or imagined, to the rest of the group.
Addictions, per Shadowtech, are divided into physical and mental,
requiring either a Body or Willpower test from time to time. BTLs would
be mental addictions, though I don't really have any stats for them
(something else to do, I think).
> I see...considering that my character would be dead already from
> these rules (he's been an addict for about a year prior to game time), I
> don't think I'll be using them.
That is exactly what my house rules attempt to fix, but you'll still need
Shadowtech to know what all the stats for the drugs mean.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:31:59 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells
In-Reply-To: <199707172112.QAA03824@*******.fgi.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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TopCat said on 16:12/17 Jul 97...
> I've never said that powergamer means munchkin (why does everyone think
> I said this?).
Maybe because many people think they're the same thing? I don't have a
problem with powergaming, if it fits in with the rest of the game, but
overstepping the line and going munchkin is something I heavily
discourage...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
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------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:31:59 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
In-Reply-To: <33CDCEEF.47EEC307@*********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Caun Haskins said on 1:51/17 Jul 97...
> I'll admit I never played DC (or for that matter a lot of other RPGs on
> the market) but I do play SR and was just wondering.
> Cyberpunk defiantly had it's influence on SR but where is Tolken and
> AD&D in it? (I played the comp. game of tolken's, never got around to
> the flesh version.) could you straighten me out? Thanks
Don't look only at games, in fact it's better not to look at other games
at all. What you should do is go to a library and pick up three books by
William Gibson: Neuromancer, Count Zero, and Mona Lisa Overdrive. Read
those and you'll see the cyberpunk roots of SR; then read all three books
of the Lord Of The Rings trilogy and there's most of the fantasy element
that's in SR.
Sure, AD&D is the archetypal fantasy RPG, but that doesn't mean every
other RPG in the world takes its ideas from it (if only because that would
make T$R's lawyers' day...). In fact much of the ideas behind AD&D are
obviously taken from Tolkien, but changed around a bit so as not to break
any rights owned by Tolkien Enterprises (for example, you can't call a
race "hobbits," but "halflings" is okay).
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
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------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:31:59 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: listserv idea was Re: Sorry....
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970717225942.006f6908@****.lis.ab.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Adam J said on 22:59/17 Jul 97...
> Another mailing list I'm on does it, and people still ask every week how to
> unsubscribe, or they say it does't work.
> Its not an idea I would throw out, but I really don't think its all that
> nessesary.
What about this suggested bi-weekly "How to reply to messages" post? If
you still plan to go through with that, you could easily add three or four
lines saying how to unsubscribe, preferably at the start of the post.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
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------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 03:50:30 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: listserv idea was Re: Sorry....
In-Reply-To: <199707180930.LAA15112@**********.xs4all.nl>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:31 7/18/97 +0100, you wrote:
>What about this suggested bi-weekly "How to reply to messages" post? If
>you still plan to go through with that, you could easily add three or four
>lines saying how to unsubscribe, preferably at the start of the post.
Will do, Guruboy :)
As well as the command for 'help' :)
-Adam
Who slept through Thursday.
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:54:18 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Glenn Munro <eazy@*****.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OOC?
In-Reply-To: <tcppop3.378847@***.hydra.com.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Bull wrote:
>>In a message dated 97-07-17 11:08:55 EDT, you write:
>>
>><< And since we're all bandying about rumors like a bunch of old maids
>> gossiping, rumor has it that GW IS in trouble, due to their EVIL pricing
>> practices. >>
>At the moment, GW doesn't have any true problems... But they DO have a
lot of pissed off players who are desperately looking for Miniatures
Elsewhere for the games...
One company I've found is Enigma Miniatures (based in Canada). The do some
minis the right scale and feel for GW games. They plan to release BloodBowl
Minis as well. The stuff I bought was 1/3 the price of GW (yes that is
correct 1/3 the price). Decent quality too and should get better.
>
>GW has been doing some really BAD things... Like raising the price of
EVERY blister pack of mini's 50 cents, and raising all their boxed sets 10%
across the board. plus some of their newer mini's have some rediculous
prices, like the Green Knight. It's a REALLY cool looking and nicely done,
but at $20.00 for a single mounted mini, it's hideously overpriced...:(
>
>They have also stopped making or supporting several of their "smaller"
games, such as their Warhammer Quest and Blood Bowl games, which has
frustrated the gamers for those games.
>
>Plus, they went to direct distributorship, and then required a certain
amount to be ordered, thus makig it near impossible for smaller shops to
afford the mini's, thus they stopped carrying them.
>
>And now, GW is requiring stores to buy the newer blister packs in lots of
6, per blister. thus, a store has to buy 6 Elf Mage blisters...:( This is
really becoming a problem for the stores and gamers alike.
>
You forgot the bit how when a stores figures go above a certain point they
then decide to open a GW store nearby thus leaving the real gamestore in
the cold (but giving them the nifty title of 'support store')
>
>However, Warhamemr products have reached an all time high in popularity in
the US, which is part of the reason GW is getting greedy.
>
>Hopefully, GW will learn from TSR's mistakes. Otherwise, the giant of the
Mini Industry could find itself needing rescued, in which case I can
definately see WOTC bailing them out.
>
They better learn quick. From what I've seen this won't happen and WOTC
takes another step towards becoming a megacorp ;)
Quickfix
The man who made it did not want it;
The man who bought it did not use it;
The man who used it did not know it.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:05:42 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] [Well, it might be usefull][sort of] Reboot!
In-Reply-To:
<c=US%a=_%pÞSHAW%l=MSBOSTON1-970717225606Z-10137@*********.boston.deshaw.com>
from "Fisher,
Victor" at Jul 17, 97 06:56:06 pm
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|
|Spike proclaimed!!!
|
|>The new season of REBOOT started today....
|>
|>All I can say is.....WATCH IT!!!!
|>
|>Kohl replys:
|> NEW REBOOT!!!
|> And I came into work early cause I thought nothing was on the tv.
|> ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
|> Thanks for the synopsis though! Guess it'll have to tide me over till I
|>can get to see it.
I hear the U.S. TV dates are in august sometime....
(We got it before you.... )
:-p
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:11:37 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] [Well, it might be usefull][sort of] Reboot!
In-Reply-To: <33CEAA2A.123@********.com> from "Caric" at Jul 17, 97
04:26:34 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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|
|Fisher, Victor wrote:
|>
|
|<snip>
|
|You know I love you Vic, but this thing where all of your mail looks
|like a reply is driving my nuts. <weep, sob>
I've lost count of all the posts I've skipped that were nothing bo
quotes.....
The only reason I say the last one was because I sent it, and knew I hadn't
written the bits I hadn't.....
[If you know what I mean]
I wonder how many other people totally skip Vics posts, even if he has
something relevant or interesting to say.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:18:21 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: WotC's Acquisitiveness
In-Reply-To: <19970717.220657.17127.2.lobo1@****.com> from "John E
Pederson"
at Jul 17, 97 10:08:08 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|
|On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:13:54 +1000 Lady Jestyr
|<jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU> writes:
|>Just thought you people might like to see an official FASA response on
|>this one...
|
|<snip rest of message>
|
|Yippee!!
Well... I think that effectively kills the thread....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:28:20 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: A New Thread for Gurth
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970717230505.007be250@***.iquest.net> from
"Jaymz" at
Jul 17, 97 11:05:05 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|#Flying high???
|#
|#What was "Airplane II: the sequal" called?
|
|Flying High 2
|
|what else?
Well, I would've at least hoped it'd be called "Flying High II, the sequal"
It was a jokey title after all....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:29:21 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: Demon Magic - Spoilers for anyone in a ENEMY type game!
Fisher, Victor writes
> Coming up...30 lines 'o' Spoilers. If you're not supposed to be looking
> at Horror/Enemy type stuff, or if you're involved in the module
> Harlequin's Back, Move Along, Move Along.!!!
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!End Spoilers...
>
i'll put them in.
> I'd say critters like Corpselights and Nomads COULD be considered
> precursers to 'true' Horrors, but they'd be EXTREMELY low level ones.
> It's been hinted in the Paranormal Animals of Europe, that the
> Wraith may be a harbinger of these nasty litle buggers as well.
Wraithlike spirits are mentioned in the ED intro that sound just like
the SR version so i don't think they are Horrors per se though they
are a similar astral nasty just a different one.
> BUT, keep in mind, the two times (to my knowledge) that actual
> stats for THE ENEMY have been displayed, these guys were downright
> TERRIFYING!!! And I'm a GM who LOVES to torment and test his players!
Actually only one 'true' Horror has got SR stats from FASA the one in
the 'Masquerade' section of HB. The rest of the thigs are merely
Horror constructs, though they are still pretty hard!
> I ran HARLEQUIN'S BACK for my group, and their first encounter
> almost left them TOTALLY devestated!
Yeah i found it more like an ED horror bash when i ran it, PC's
flying thought the air with the greatest of ease, then the guy with
the combat axe got to playing 'horror constuct' jack and it all got
over in time for Harlequin to do a bit of quick PC reconstruction.
> I don't think the SR World in general is ready for a full on
> invasion of The Enemy; not for sometime to come.
Very true, much more powerful magic to hide from them is required
along with things like spell matricies and some more tech would help,
as H comments (i have used my own not FASA's words) 2000 years with ED
magic and tech to make 'Star trek' look tame in many regards Earth
might win, now everyone but the great dragons are dead.
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:32:36 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: Demon Magic - Spoilers for anyone in a ENEMY type game!
Court Schuett writes
> At 10:43 PM 7/16/97 -0800, you wrote:
> >At 11:19 PM 7/16/97, Jaymz wrote:
> >>spioler space about the enemy
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#
> >>#Well of COURSE they were. They were full blown horrors.
> >>#Even weaker horrors of Earthdawn'd be very nasty in shadowrun....
> >
> >Harlequins Back. Stats for Horrors and everything. Definitely nasty.
> >
> >David R. Lowe (dlowe@****.com)
> I agree that they were nasty, but I thought they were just constructs.
> Take a look at the similarities between the Crawlers, and Jethura
> Almost positive they are one in the same in which case, SR is in big
> trouble. Cause they really messed up my group of pretty darn powerful PCs,
> and our ED group can take several Jethura, null sweat.
The crawlers look pretty much the same but i suspect they are quite a
bit tougher than Jethura which can be beat up by low circle
characters, and there were 4 against the PC's in HB. I suspect stone
falsemen might be closer abilities wise (though they are a very
different thing). But with the ED stats handy i don't know my Ed
monsters well enough.
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:33:22 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970718014901.26dfecfc@*****.com> from "Bull" at
Jul 18,
97 01:49:32 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|I hate you all!
|
|I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
|
|Argh!!!!!!!!!!
|
|:]
Oh well.... Never mind....
Just don't start eating US, OK......
:)
|Bull
|--
|Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
|
|The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
^^^
Ahem...... Ork???
LOL
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:37:16 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: Demon Magic - Spoilers for anyone in a ENEMY type game!
J. Keith Henry writes
> In a message dated 97-07-17 09:39:39 EDT, schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU (Court
> Schuett) writes:
>
spoilers
> A question came up to me concerning ED/SR crossovers with the Horrors. Those
> Horrors in the book (Harley and all), have multiple attacks, but the attacks
> were considered "slighter" than a principle attack. I may be remembeing
> incorrectly on this, I admit.
>
> Anyway, multiple action combat exists in SR, it just requires more. Karma
> and Experience in this case. Ambidexterity, Off-Hand, Blind-Fighting, Zero-G
> Ops (for the space farers) are all optional "special skills" that could be
> developed, and quickly allow for a character to "keep up" with the Horrors.
> Okay, maybe not the "Named Horrors", but the one's so far...sure...
> -Keith
>
If required you could reduce the interaction delay from 10 for the ED
stuff with lots of attacks per round, PC's can get a maximum 2
actions in ED (except for claw frenzy which is just obscene) while
big horrors can get up to 5 physical + 5 spellcasting actions (though
about 6 total is more reasonable).
I did the one time i used a big (ish) horror, a physical action every
10, spellcasting actions 5 initiatives later, well had in not been
shot by an LMG, Vindicactor loading APDS and an ATGM in rappid
succession (yes the showdown was fixed so the PC's stood a chance, SR
magicians vs Horrors is a joke)
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:38:06 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970718012623.007fa210@*****.ivcc.edu> from "Court
Schuett" at Jul 18, 97 01:26:23 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|At 01:49 AM 7/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
|>I hate you all!
|>I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
|>Argh!!!!!!!!!!
|>:]
|>Bull
|
|Oh that's good. :) But you should have seen some of the other ideas. You
|got off pretty easy. :) There are some truly evil and imaginitive people
|out there.
|What'd the wife and kids have to say about this one?
Someone was even warped enought to suggest the mother-in-law move in!
Wendigo, or Mother-In-Law... Which would you prefer?
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:43:36 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: GEEK CODE?
In-Reply-To: <33CDE5EE.7C087F8D@*********.com> from "Caun Haskins" at Jul
17,
97 03:29:33 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|On all your messages I get this at the bootom of the message:
|
|> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
|> Version 3.1:
|> GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
|> Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
|> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
|
|what is it, why do I get it, and does anybody else find it anoying or
|even get it?
|
It's called the Geek code, and I wouldn't start dissing it, because it was
created by Our Original Fearless Leader and Creator of Shadowrn, Rob Hayden.
If you want a copy, tell me, and I'll e-mail it to you.
(Then you'll know more about us Geeks)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 08:39:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Angel Ramos y David Fayes <hansa@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Willpower & the Common Mage (was Re: [SR3] Combat Spells)
In-Reply-To: <199707172021.PAA32449@*******.fgi.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:21 PM 17/07/1997 -0500, TopCat wrote:
>At 12:00 AM 7/18/97 +1000, Glenn wrote:
>>>The average mage is just a person with the
>>>capability to use magic. There would be proportionately as many mundanes
>>>with a 6 Willpower as mages.
>
>>I have to disagree here. Hermetic mages study to learn their magic often
>>using mathematical formulas and the like. Those that even bother to try you
>>would expect to have average and above willpowers. Then with the shamanic
>>tradition why would a totem choose low willpowered individuals? The totem
>>wants to advance its own cause and would choose the best people for that
>>job and people with low willpower generally would not suit.
I agree with Topcat about mages (hermetic) having above average willpower
becuase of intense studies and I'm absolutly certain that Shaman totem
won't choose any below normal willpower creature.
[snip rest of comment from Topcat]
What topcat says IMHO should be the common way in 205X but anyone can play
his/her world as he/she sees fit him/her.
That's my little opinion about this.
Bye
Elven Mage
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:29:24 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@*****.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970718014901.26dfecfc@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
On 18 Jul 97 at 1:49, Bull wrote:
> I hate you all!
>
> I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
>
> Argh!!!!!!!!!!
>
> :]
Where's Sam Verner when you need him....
:)
--
===DREKHEAD==================================drekhead@***.net===
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
================================================================
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot
stomping on a human face...forever. -George Orwell
----------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 07:30:45 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
In-Reply-To: <199707181239.GAA21212@******> from "Spike" at Jul 18,
97 01:38:06 pm
Content-Type: text
Spike wrote:
|
| |
| |At 01:49 AM 7/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
| |>I hate you all!
| |>I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
| |>Argh!!!!!!!!!!
| |>:]
| |>Bull
| |
| |Oh that's good. :) But you should have seen some of the other ideas. You
| |got off pretty easy. :) There are some truly evil and imaginitive people
| |out there.
| |What'd the wife and kids have to say about this one?
|
| Someone was even warped enought to suggest the mother-in-law move in!
| Wendigo, or Mother-In-Law... Which would you prefer?
I'm gonna take that as a compliment :)
Bull, you got off *way* lucky.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:31:37 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Totems -Reply
>Seriously though. Have the members of this list
>concluded that the totems are real - objectively
>and substantively real? This seems a bit too
>AD&Dish for me.
Took me a minute to figure out what AD&D had
to do with it, and then I figured out you meant
clerics w/ "real" gods vs. magic users with "just"
magic.
Anyway, there are a few questions like this that
Shadowrun the game system is agnostic about:
Are totems real or figments, does conjuring
summon or create spirits, does magic follow
rules of nature or is it a thing of spirit and intent.
(Actually the answer to the last one, like "Is light
a particle or a wave?", is fairly clear: the answer
is "YES")
IMHO, if it were possible to devise an expirement
that would answer these questions, some PHd in
Thaumaturgy would have tried it already, and
FASA would have revealed the result. Therefore,
all such experements have been inconclusive.
Therefore, in my game, neither the characters
nor the players can know the answers to these
questions (although they can have opinions).
Totems come out of the collective unconscious,
and whether the sixth age has given these
archetypes (in the Jungian, not the SR sense)
actual identities isn't clear. Maybe a dog
shaman is simply in better contact with the
dog-like parts of humanities collective brains,
with the astral plane working like a giant
switchboard of ideas, concepts and information.
His subconscious becomes aware of something,
and presto--Dog appears in his mind to tell him.
Double-Domed Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:44:06 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: A WildCat, a Navy SEAL,
and a Tir mage go into a bar...[Was Long Range Game Designs]
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TopCat continues to froth at the mouth 8-0
'...ex-Wildcat finds ex-Seal and they want to work together.
Couldn't find two groups perhaps more opposed to working together (NAN
and CAS). Throw in a Tir mage (everyone hates the elves) and it's a
party! There's no reason for them to be together (and yes, anyone can
come up with some BS story that'll link 'em, but BS by anyother name
still stinks.'
To which Kohl replys:
First off, TopCat, The SEALS work for the UCAS, NOT CAS! Second, as
anyone whose actually been in the military can tell you, the prime
reason for these two disparate peoples for working together comes down
to one word...PROFESSIONALISM!
A spec forces commando, if the objectives or opposition were the
same, these two people would MUCH rather work together than with a bunch
of disorganized, improperly (if at all) trained, UNPROFESSIONAL
Shadowrunners [Yes, I know that there are many Sr groups that don't fit
this mold, but the military mentality, even a really loose one like
mine, tends to gravitate towards order of regimentation, as opposed to
the chaotic decisionmaking evidenced by your typical 'amateur' Shadowrun
team.].
If the Tir mage is also a former spook, works just as well. Not all
spec forces teams love and share a 'warm, fuzzy feeling' for each other,
BUT most are professional enough to work together to get the job done.
And who knows, after working with their opposite numbers for awhile,
they may just develop a grudging respect for one another. This would go
a long way to laying down more lasting links between the trio, than to
simply lump them all together as types that should get along and say,
you're a team.
Military, and spec forces in particular, are trained in a certain
discipline that most amateur shadowrunners have no wish to emulate.
[Look at Argent from Nigel Findley's books. He ran a team of
Shadowrunners that was almost totally composed of ex-military, and they
functioned like a well oiled machine. I'd say more, but then I'd need
spoilers :-].
You seem to think that anyone who can come up with a interesting
and CONVINCING storyline, OTHER than you, why these three should hang
together is full of BS! Now, if THAT isn't full of hubris, and a good
helping Mad Cow Kaka, I don't know what is! As a GM, you're supposed to
HELP the players find a reason to stick together. It's hard, and it
doesn't always work out, but that doesn't mean you aren't supposed to
try. And don't give me the reason that you don't have the time. I'm
pretty sure I'm a GOOD deal older than you are, and if anyone doesn't
have time to waste on foolishness, it's me.
Only a civilian would make an assumption like that these three
would have no reason to stick together as BS! [And NO, I'm NOT bashing
civilians; I'm one right now, and enjoy it quite fine, thank you!] I
suggest you take a look at the Shadowrun Military Page, and talk to a
few of those guys over there, so's you get a better idea what you're
meandering about.
Or, maybe I'm totally wrong, and they'll vindicate you. Who
knows...
Kohl
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:42:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michel Racicot <harlequin@*********.CA>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
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> I hate you all!
>
> I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
>
> Argh!!!!!!!!!!
>
> :]
ARRRRGHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhh!!!
A wendigo decker!!! RUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 07:58:26 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Attitude is Everything :)
In-Reply-To: <199707172112.PAA06454@******> from "TopCat" at Jul 17,
97 04:12:23 pm
Content-Type: text
TopCat wrote:
|
| I've never said that powergamer means munchkin (why does
| everyone think I said this?).
I think I know what the problem is :)
First, you have very strong opinions (a good thing).
You aren't afraid to voice these opinions (a good thing).
You seem to have a tendancy to "bunch" different nouns to talk about
something. In the Munchkin thread you used the words Munchkin,
Powergamer, and Over-powered in very close proximity. Ergo, the
belief that you equated Munchkin with Powergamer (which has since
been cleared up quite well).
You also tend to "wander" a little bit when communicating. It's a
good conversational style, but leads to misinterpretation when
discussing philosophy. And since you love to debate philosophy... :)
It's not any one thing, but a combination of attitude and style.
It's also a matter of people getting used to you.
Anyway, I'm not advocating that you should change, just letting you
know what I see.
And for everyone that butts heads with TC, read his posts as if
you're having a friendly chat with him over a beer (or a koolaid for
you youngters ;).
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 07:59:29 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: [OT] Trip
In-Reply-To: <199707172053.OAA05688@******> from "Shane Courtrille" at
Jul 7,
97 02:51:04 pm
Content-Type: text
Shane Courtrille wrote:
|
| Being in love... What a trip...
Make sure you use your turn signals ;)
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:00:38 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@*****.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] Trip
In-Reply-To: <199707181359.HAA22767@******>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On 18 Jul 97 at 7:59, David Buehrer wrote:
> Shane Courtrille wrote:
> |
> | Being in love... What a trip...
>
> Make sure you use your turn signals ;)
And check your brakes. :)
--
===DREKHEAD==================================drekhead@***.net===
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
================================================================
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot
stomping on a human face...forever. -George Orwell
----------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 08:06:46 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Oh Do Shut Up Already!!!
In-Reply-To: <199707180644.AAA18354@******> from "Dvixen" at Jul 17,
97 11:53:08 pm
Content-Type: text
Dvixen wrote:
|
| And fyi, I enjoy reading the posts, I get an insight to what others
| views are, even if they aren't mine.
<aol>
Me too.
</aol>
(Copywrite by Spike Industries)
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 08:09:32 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
In-Reply-To: <199707172112.PAA06454@******> from "TopCat" at Jul 17,
97 04:12:23 pm
Content-Type: text
TopCat wrote:
|
| >Everybody's game is
| >different and you should respect their philosophies as much as you
| >want them to respect yours.
|
| I don't have to respect various gaming philosophies, just as I don't have to
| respect various people or practices. Not a very nice sentiment, I know, but
| it's the way I am and, I think, the way we all are to one degree or another.
| I don't respect munchkinous games and I have little respect if any for some
| of the powergames out there. Not respecting a given gaming philosophy and
| banning it from practice are two very different things though. I can't do
| the latter.
Okay, point taken :)
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 15:09:29 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Oh Do Shut Up Already!!!
In-Reply-To: <199707181406.IAA22999@******> from "David Buehrer" at Jul
18,
97 08:06:46 am
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|<aol>
|Me too.
|</aol>
|
|(Copywrite by Spike Industries)
Thanks for the CopyRIGHT message....
:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:10:15 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Design [Here it comes, TopCat!]
MIME-Version: 1.0
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TopCat ONCE again gets it wrong what I'm trying to say :-P
<snip, snip, snip some more, or what the hell, snip most of this
drivel!>
The only reason you find what I have to hilarious is because you
have NO idea what I'm trying to say!!! Setting the parameters means you
telling the players what the powe level of the game is, what [if any]
character types aren't really compatible with the whole storyline,
UNLESS the Player and Gm TOGETHER are able to barnstorm an idea that
that will allow the character to work in the game.
I like it when my characters come from 'all points of the globe'. I
LIKE diversity, as opposed to you ONE GM, ONE VISION type of gaming.
AND, I'll have you know, that maybe in YOUR game characters from
different backgrounds despise and hate each other, displaying an
EXTREMELY Xenophobic attitude, the same does NOT hold for mine, and that
4 times out of 5, the group finds for themselves, with a little help
from me, reasons to work together. I can take you taking pot shots at
me, BUT DON'T YOU DARE DO SLAMS AGAINST MY PLAYERS! That is the most
unmidigated, galling statement I ve EVER heard, and I've heard quite a
few!
You don't need to instantly obliterate the PCs [well, maybe YOU
do]. You don't need to go about prosecuting powergamers [but I guess
like the Nazis, you need a scapegoat for your propoganda to feed on].
NO ONE in my game is a POWERGAMER [yes, I DID have one, but unlike
you, who probably would have given him a blindfold and shot him at dawn,
we came to an agreement that he should find something elsewhere].
Just because you LIMITED, INFLEXIBLE mentality isn't able to
comprehend all the possible plot threads that can link diverse
characters together, and can only see a TopCat Uber Alles type world
where all the player characters are the same, DON'T have the nerve to
think we all have to or desire to be like that.
I may not run a PERFECT game like YOU do, but I try my best, and I
think my players enjoy it a little as well. And I'd rather burn my
books, than submit to a fasCist Gm like yourself!
WHEW! I feel better now. Despised letting that run itno a spout of
namecalling, but you want a pissing match, I guarentee I've got a biger
[Block delete 0.02 Mp Memory].
Kohl, who HATES to be antagonized before he's had his morning cup of
tea!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 08:12:54 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Oh Do Shut Up Already!!!
In-Reply-To: <199707181410.IAA23168@******> from "Spike" at Jul 18,
97 03:09:29 pm
Content-Type: text
Spike wrote:
|
| |<aol>
| |Me too.
| |</aol>
| |
| |(Copywrite by Spike Industries)
|
| Thanks for the CopyRIGHT message....
| :)
Aarg! $$#@!&%^$#! And my job is closely related to the publishing
industry.
:)
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:15:30 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OOC?
In a message dated 97-07-18 04:03:51 EDT, you write:
>At the moment, GW doesn't have any true problems... But they DO have a lot
of >pissed off players who are desperately looking for Miniatures Elsewhere
for the >games...
But the players still buy the figures. I see it all the time in the store I
used to run. "Bob" would come in and complain about the prices, but still buy
the figures.
Though, I have noticed that some players are getting alternative figures for
their armies, not as many in my area. (About 1 out of 25 players)
The clone figures produced by several other companies could pose a problem
for GWUS, so I do see your point.
>GW has been doing some really BAD things... Like raising the price of EVERY
>blister pack of mini's 50 cents, and raising all their boxed sets 10% across
the >board. plus some of their newer mini's have some rediculous prices,
like the Green >Knight. It's a REALLY cool looking and nicely done, but at
$20.00 for a single >mounted mini, it's hideously overpriced...:(
The price increase doesn't really bother me that much, since their figures
are always the best quality. Lead/pewter I do not mind paying for, but their
plastics are really over priced.
>They have also stopped making or supporting several of their "smaller"
games, >such as their Warhammer Quest and Blood Bowl games....
Blood bowl is coming back. I am not sure what's going on with Warhammer
quest, but I have heard that they have some new stuff for it coming out at
the begining of next year.
>Plus, they went to direct distributorship, and then required a certain
amount to be >ordered, thus makig it near impossible for smaller shops to
afford the mini's, thus >they stopped carrying them.
Games Work shop had to go to direct distributorship to survive. When magic
was at its peek in '94, Games Workshop would call their distributors and be
told "No, we don't need your product, magic is making our money for us." (I
got this from David Kingston who used to work at GWUS in the trade sales
relations office, as head of the department.) If they hadn't, GWUS would be
almost gone now.
I will admit that the $500 minimum order can be a bit steep for some shops,
but the average GWUS player will have to sppend $300+ to get their armies. If
the shops can not meet the minimum once a month, then truthfully they will do
better carring something else. My shop finally got to the point where most of
our customers were dealing on the internet, buying at cost, so we droped the
line.
Also, GWUS products are available to distributors, they just get the same
deal that retailers do, so they could carry them. I believe greenfield and
armory carry the line.
>And now, GW is requiring stores to buy the newer blister packs in lots of 6,
per >blister....
Yeah, I know. I understand that GW wants everyone to carry the full rack, but
I think they should create line fillers as opposed to having shops ordering
entire sleeves.
>However, Warhamemr products have reached an all time high in popularity in
the >US, which is part of the reason GW is getting greedy.
Let's face it, they admit that they are in it to make money. I would be too.
>Hopefully, GW will learn from TSR's mistakes. Otherwise, the giant of the
Mini >Industry could find itself needing rescued, in which case I can
definately see WOTC >bailing them out.
TSR made many other mistakes, like ticking off their distribtors at GenCon
one year or how about hiring friends to sit and shuffle papers. My favorite
was when TSR was building their new office, sold the old before the new one
was completed, only to rent it back for 3 months from the new owners.
-Bandit
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:21:32 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: WotC's Acquisitiveness
In a message dated 97-07-18 08:20:01 EDT, you write:
<< Well... I think that effectively kills the thread.... >>
You know, before TSR was bought, represntives said the same thing, and WOTC
doesn't want a buyout of FASA-just the rights to BattleTech and Shadowrun.
I personally am waiting to after Gen Con to see what happens.
-El Bandit, hoping this is all some wierd dream.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 15:29:25 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: WotC's Acquisitiveness
In-Reply-To: <970718102115_-625154380@*******.mail.aol.com> from "M. Sean
Martinez" at Jul 18, 97 10:21:32 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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|
|In a message dated 97-07-18 08:20:01 EDT, you write:
|
|<< Well... I think that effectively kills the thread.... >>
|
|You know, before TSR was bought, represntives said the same thing, and WOTC
|doesn't want a buyout of FASA-just the rights to BattleTech and Shadowrun.
|
|I personally am waiting to after Gen Con to see what happens.
FASA would be fools to sell anything to TotC, given their prior loyalty to
the industry.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 15:32:01 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: WotC's Acquisitiveness
In-Reply-To: <3369.199707181429@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk> from "Spike"
at
Jul 18, 97 03:29:25 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|FASA would be fools to sell anything to TotC, given their prior loyalty to
|the industry..... ^
OK, so, I'm a crap typer... It should of course be a 'W'....
But you all knew that anyway....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 15:35:25 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Designs
J. Keith Henry writes
> Okay, with this paragraph a very distinct question has arisen to me.
I snipped it but Topcat does have some reasonable things to say,
unfortunately i don't have the time to wade through the volume when
someone sets him off (usually because he misinterpreted what they
meant) getting 750 emails at once after a long weekend does not help
my reply rate any !
> How
> many people out there have a game scenario/series that is "neverending"?
By
> that I mean that they don't just "get an idea" and design the idea then
have
> everyone make the characters. After the idea is over, the characters are put
> aside.
>
> I mean the games with no end-game in sight.
I generally always aim to have campains run on open ended. Mind the
campain world i'm presently using is more than 1 campain old now and
managing! i haven't had to clone planet Earth (or even just Seattle)
yet (though i might have too see how things go).
> I have a campaign line that has
> been in existence, in one form or another, for over 6 years now. It's seen
> nearly 34 players (yeah, I sat down and counted all of these) and I don't
> know how many different characters (that may be 50% again the above number).
> There are 4 players that are still here (talk about -CORE-) and they can
> handle nearly fragging anything, and even with a hint of style from time to
> time (wondering what definition of style they use however).
>
Yeah, i had one group run for 22 months before after quite a few
player changeabouts i pulled the plug as the knowledge of the players
drifting into the game could no longer cope with the very climbing
Karma totals. So i started the campain again from 0 karma which they
were in a better position to cope with, then started another campain
in the same campain world as well, the last is still running.
I forget how many players and characters have been involved but not
close to your 34! though total campain up time is approaching 3 years
and i am using stuff developed up to and including over a year before
that as background :)
Some of the bad guys are still about, the corporation behind the
first run the first lot did is still busy annoying PC's, they might
get around to visiting them yet, i think villans with beta move-by-
wire 4 annoyed some characters :), Jurazez after he showed up is
still surviving though he's been unconcious due to well placed fists
more than a few times, not a popular chap but when he shows up with a
dozen FBI limos and a company of national guard in tow sometimes (and
it was PC property PC's had just trashed) you can imaging they daren't
use bullets.
There are even good guys that have lasted that long, The NPC mage i
mention sometimes started as a reasonable sub 200 karma NPC at the
beginning, last time he was supposedly seen (with a pack of
Aztechnology hired Mercs moving in for a 10Millon yen bounty, PC's
should be careful what they hand folks without checking the
fusion-ability of the contents) he was on over 900 and very hard.
> Talking about "Detective Games" or "Combat Games" or
"Artifact Games" has
> just made me realize that the characters I've had around me, both my own and
> others, might be really close to damn unique.
Yeah i've had all sorts of runs. Including saving the govenor, then
the next party got hired to find out what the military grade shootout
at her place was all about :), ie what where the last lot of PC's
doing firing ATGM's at Shultz's and getting patted on the back by her
for it.
Pc's have been hired to swap 'the crate in the lorry with the one in
the Ares spaceplane' ['Johnson' neglecting to mention crate 1
contained a dead Horror the campain worlds first campain had blown up
and the second lot had given him after they got the remains off the
FBI, and crate 2 contained a Thor Satellite, Ares were not impressed
though they never ID'ed most of them and some of those PC's now have
fractions of Dunk's 1% in Ares]
> The character of my own (there
> have been 4 GM's to the line btw) I mentioned a while back with 3000+ game
> hours is a case in point.
Yikes!
> -Keith (who is really wondering if the definition of -Power- is well and
> truly understood)
>
Yeah.
I have seen characters that were legal (yes actually rules legal) by
the starting rules that were more 'munchkinous' that the guy with
delta move by wire 3! [which he paid for having earnt the money by
being clever]
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:51:09 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Totems
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970718182708.007b5760@****.org.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Fri, 18 Jul 1997, Chris Maxfield wrote:
> <grin> What?!?! Damn. I thought totems were just a convenient mental
> magical crutch for the shaman. No more real than any other hallucination.
> </grin>
>
> Seriously though. Have the members of this list concluded that the totems
> are real - objectively and substantively real? This seems a bit too AD&Dish
> for me.
>
Actually if one looks into the mythos of the Native Americans the totems
are real. Their not quite as "human" as the greek pantheon for example,
but they are quite real.
It makes for some interesting ideas for SR when you start translating
ancient Native American myths and legends into their 21st century
equivalents.
As to whther or not they are real, consider this; is a nature spirit
"real" well maybe not at first, but if it goes free, then it certainly
is. (within the laws of the UCAS, CAS, Aztlan etc etc etc)
In SR if enough people "believe" then something happens. Reference
Gator, being an urban totem. The BBB clearly states that this facet grew
out of urban legend (20th century urban legend).
Anyway my point is (I really do have one). I think that there are a lot
of cool rolepaying oppurtunities if you allow the totems to be real
independent entities. Note; nowhere does it say the totems have any real
power in the material world.
Imagine Raccoon wanting his shaman to organize a shadowrun just to tweak
Cat's nose.
Regards
-Bill
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:58:04 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Peter David Boddy <pdboddy@****.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970718014901.26dfecfc@*****.com>; from "Bull" at
Jul
18, 97 1:49 am
Bull writes:
> I hate you all!
> I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
Ah-wendigo,
Ah-wendigo,
Ah-wendigo, ah-wendigo, ah-wendigooaaooaaoo
In the sprawl, the mighty sprawl,
The ork sleeps tonight,
In the sprawl, the nasty sprawl,
The ork sleeps tonight...
Hehehehehehe...
I can remember my first encounter with a wendigo, actually there were
about half a dozen. I was a rigger, we had a decker, a mage, and three
sammies. We were heading cross country (heading for a small town, needed
to lay low), and I offered to drive everyone in my armoured van. The
decker and the mage accepted, but the three sammies wouldn't be caught
dead in my beat up old van, so one of them had bought (or stolen, can't
remember, and not that my character would ask) a brand new, bright red,
4x4 half-ton.
We stopped in a small town, round noon, and noticed that it was almost
empty, nothing in it except for a few starving dogs, and a couple of
really thin, really scared human, who ran off when we approached. So,
figuring no one would care, we picked an empty house as ours, and decided
to make this town our hidey hole. At dusk is when all the really wierd
things happened. Seems as though some of the population of the town had
caught HMHVV, and these unfortunates came for us in the night. We barely
(very barely) made it to our vehicles, and we tore off into the night,
heading for the open highway...to be met by six wendigos, which ambushed
us. Now my van was armoured, so I had enough time to deply my turreted
light machine gun (which didn't kill them, but peeled them off of my van).
Now, the little red pickup wasn't armoured, or armed (except for the
sammies), and when I saw the drivers door torn off, I had to stop and
help...man, the wendigos could have made an excellent F1 pit crew, cause
they stipped that truck to almost nothing, in no time...
Lets just say that our party stayed in the big city for a long, long time,
before heading out into the country again...
Pete
Pete aka Spitfire
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter David Boddy
Carleton University
Email address: pdboddy@****.carleton.ca
Email address: bx955@*******.carleton.ca
----------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:59:31 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Design [Here it comes, TopCat!]
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Hehe...any one mind if I laugh my ass off for a while? See, I find this
whole arguement between Topcat and Victor hilarious. "I play my game this
way..." and "Well, I wouldn't do that, I play it like this..." Hilarious
to me. And you want to know why?
I play in both of their games.
I play in Victor's great "Mosaic" PBEM, and I play in Topcat's also
wonderful RL game with some friends.
Both games are great, and neither of them is very different from the other,
power and gming wise. I should know. In fact, except for subtle
differences, the character in Victor's game is the exact same as the one in
Topcats.
Perhaps you guys should stop arguing the same side?
Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/
The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton
Gencon count down: 19 days
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:00:17 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: A WildCat, A Navy SEAL, and A Tir Mage go into a bar...
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Topcat,
I've grown REALLY tired of trying to reply to all this
misinterpreted, poorly argued diatribes about whoses way of GMing is
right. Your players must enjoy the way you do things, otherwise you
wouldn't have any, and my players must be deriving a little satisfaction
from my efforts. This thread has already taken FAR too much time from my
gamers, when I could have been posting turns, or getting ready for the
weekend session with my 'live' gamers. So, think what you want to think,
and say what you want to say about my style. I'm not going to change
your mind by beating you over the head with my manifesto, and vice versa
[a case of your karma ran over my dogma!]. Just don't go insulting my
players. Stick to what you know about, don't go making snap judgements
about people you've never had contact with in a gaming context.
I'm DEFINITELY Audi!
Kohl
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:10:34 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Design
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Thanks, Mike.
That was a cold bucket of water you threw on me, and I appreciate
it. If someone starts taking pokes at me before I've had my morning cup
of tea, and done a little meditating to get myself prepped for the day,
I tend to come out fighting! I actually hadn't realized how bad it was,
until a few years ago when I was on board ship, I found out, several
people were afraid to approach me in the morning, because they thought
I'd tear their heads of f[Well, there was that time I leapt out of my
rack from a sound sleep, grabbed this guy by the collar, and hoisted him
off his feet against a wall, cause he woke me up too early. When
everyone, including the guy I was strangling started laughing, I
realised I'd gone to sleep in my starkers, and was standing there buck
nakkid in the breeze! <lowers reufully shaking head>
I apologise, TopCat. And thanks again, Mike.
Kohl
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 08:45:12 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Skye Comstock <bilbo@****.NWLINK.COM>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970718014901.26dfecfc@*****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>I hate you all!
>
>I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
>
>Argh!!!!!!!!!!
>
>:]
Hey, I think it was my idea, too. :] Did you read the posts, Bull? Bad!
Bad Bad Bull! I'll send the armies of Free Spirit Woosps after you
stupid children!
-Skye, "Lets turn him into a purple Wendigo." :P
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:58:47 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
In-Reply-To: <v03007800aff54ddcd1f8@[206.129.19.7]> from "Skye Comstock"
at
Jul 18, 97 08:45:12 am
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|Hey, I think it was my idea, too. :] Did you read the posts, Bull? Bad!
|Bad Bad Bull! I'll send the armies of Free Spirit Woosps after you
|stupid children!
Oh, I don't think he read the posts...
I think he started suddenly growing grey hair all over his body....
:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:50:25 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: GEEK CODE?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Caun Haskins wrote:
>
> On all your messages I get this at the bootom of the message:
>
> > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> > Version 3.1:
> > GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
> > Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
> > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
>
> what is it, why do I get it, and does anybody else find it anoying or
> even get it?
Caun, the geek code block has been here before us and will exist after
us. It is an institution.
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:29:11 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Design
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At 10:10 AM 7/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>TopCat ONCE again gets it wrong what I'm trying to say :-P
You said I was some sort of fascist GM when the truth was perhaps farthest
from that... and since you repeat it within here, I'm sure I got it right...
> The only reason you find what I have to hilarious is because you
>have NO idea what I'm trying to say!!! Setting the parameters means you
>telling the players what the powe level of the game is, what [if any]
>character types aren't really compatible with the whole storyline,
Which is all I've ever done... hello? You're reading these posts right? My
posts? Ya with me, Vic?
>UNLESS the Player and Gm TOGETHER are able to barnstorm an idea that
>that will allow the character to work in the game.
Any moron can slap some words together to explain why an Alamos 20K member
and a ORC member are really best buddies and run together all the time or
how a godlike powergamed shadowrunner would hang out with low-powered
detectives with SINs. As I said before, BS by any other name still stinks...
> I like it when my characters come from 'all points of the globe'. I
>LIKE diversity, as opposed to you ONE GM, ONE VISION type of gaming.
>AND, I'll have you know, that maybe in YOUR game characters from
>different backgrounds despise and hate each other, displaying an
>EXTREMELY Xenophobic attitude, the same does NOT hold for mine, and that
>4 times out of 5, the group finds for themselves, with a little help
>from me, reasons to work together. I can take you taking pot shots at
>me, BUT DON'T YOU DARE DO SLAMS AGAINST MY PLAYERS! That is the most
>unmidigated, galling statement I ve EVER heard, and I've heard quite a
>few!
Once again, diversity is not discouraged by me nor did I ever make the point
that it was. Why the hell are you so far off on this when nobody else is?
What is discouraged by me are situations where the characters realistically
would despise each other and/or not work with each other. One player is
contemplating changing his character because he doesn't know if he could see
his currrent one working with this group. As far as I'm concerned, that's
extremely well thought out. Sure, he could slap some BS story on there (as
could anyone with a slight degree of skill with their given language) as a
patch, but he'd rather go realistic. That impresses me. I could slap a
patch on there for him, but it'd still be a patch.
As for taking shots at your players, what the hell are you talking about?
> You don't need to instantly obliterate the PCs [well, maybe YOU
>do]. You don't need to go about prosecuting powergamers [but I guess
>like the Nazis, you need a scapegoat for your propoganda to feed on].
I don't prosecute powergamers or obliterate PCs... you sure you're thinking
about me or is this some deep part of your psyche venting itself? Were you
beaten as a kid? Did whoever did it make you call him TopCat? There's got
to be *some* reason...
> NO ONE in my game is a POWERGAMER [yes, I DID have one, but unlike
>you, who probably would have given him a blindfold and shot him at dawn,
>we came to an agreement that he should find something elsewhere].
LOL! Damn near everyone is a powergamer. Most of those know what
powergaming is and actively keep themselves from doing it under most
circumstances. Being a powergamer is like being an alchoholic: once you
become one, you're one forever. It's just keeping yourself from powergaming
that keeps you on the "wagon". Simply knowing a game system can (and will
often) make one a powergamer (one who is capable of powergaming)...
> Just because you LIMITED, INFLEXIBLE mentality isn't able to
>comprehend all the possible plot threads that can link diverse
>characters together, and can only see a TopCat Uber Alles type world
>where all the player characters are the same, DON'T have the nerve to
>think we all have to or desire to be like that.
This is absolutely hilarious, Vic. You are so far off on this and look SO
bad. I weave plot threads like few others I've ever met or heard of. I
play from a realistic (which is to say, not comic-bookish) standpoint, so
it's easier for me that way. Man, are you off on this...
By all means, place your happy little BS patches all over your characters
and campaigns, I'm not playing in it so I won't have to smell the
accompanying stink...
> I may not run a PERFECT game like YOU do, but I try my best, and I
>think my players enjoy it a little as well. And I'd rather burn my
>books, than submit to a fasCist Gm like yourself!
Hey! You got the "c" in there this time. You spelled it right, but you
thought this entire post (and your others on this) through wrong. Way to
go, Vic. I didn't think anyone could make that big of an ass of themselves,
but you exceeded my wildest imaginations. Bravo, Vic! Bravo!
> WHEW! I feel better now. Despised letting that run itno a spout of
>namecalling, but you want a pissing match, I guarentee I've got a biger
>[Block delete 0.02 Mp Memory].
.02 Mp ain't big enough, little fella...
Now, you can keep ranting on and on despite having been shot down
repeatedly. I like to reply to posts like that, it makes me smile. You
could also wake up, realize that you've been wrong all the way through this,
and stop posting on this before you dig a deeper hole. Or you could go
civilized and maybe apologize, but I don't expect that. What happens now is
all up to you...
What's it going to be, Vic?
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:29:25 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!!
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 11:31 AM 7/18/97 +0100, you wrote:
>> I've never said that powergamer means munchkin (why does everyone think
>> I said this?).
>Maybe because many people think they're the same thing? I don't have a
>problem with powergaming, if it fits in with the rest of the game, but
>overstepping the line and going munchkin is something I heavily
>discourage...
Good deal!! Gurth understands (and it's an opinion that I value, as
well)... anyone else?
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:29:17 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: A WildCat, a Navy SEAL, and a Tir mage go into a bar...
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At 09:44 AM 7/18/97 -0400, Victor wrote:
>First off, TopCat, The SEALS work for the UCAS, NOT CAS!
Actually, if you read through SR2 (which one would hope you might've) you'd
know that SEALs could be of either UCAS or CAS. When the US split, military
forces went to their respective countries based on their own personal
loyalties. Now if you knew where they train at you'd know that they'd be in
the CAS if that had anything to do with it, but since SR2 states that the
military split along personal loyaties, I'll let you slide there. Besides,
in the SC they mention a CAS SEAL character. They could be either, but they
are not exclusively UCAS. Wrong again...
> Second, as
>anyone whose actually been in the military can tell you, the prime
>reason for these two disparate peoples for working together comes down
>to one word...PROFESSIONALISM!
Surprise! I've been in the military...
As for professionalism, how about all the ingrained anti-Indian sentiment in
every former UCAS/CAS military member? They just forget that at retirement
as they fall into a plot hole? How about all the anti-elf sentiment
worldwide? I'm sure the plot hole covers that over just fine as well.
Sure, professionalism is appreciated, but where it's coming from is just as,
if not more so, important. Think like a real person for a moment...
> A spec forces commando, if the objectives or opposition were the
>same, these two people would MUCH rather work together than with a bunch
>of disorganized, improperly (if at all) trained, UNPROFESSIONAL
>Shadowrunners [Yes, I know that there are many Sr groups that don't fit
>this mold, but the military mentality, even a really loose one like
>mine, tends to gravitate towards order of regimentation, as opposed to
>the chaotic decisionmaking evidenced by your typical 'amateur' Shadowrun
>team.].
Of course anyone would rather work with a "professional" group, but one
doesn't have to be ex-military to be professional. I know more
unprofessional military people than professional, btw. Anywhere that rank
and time in service mean more than actual knowledge and ability is an
unprofessional place. Perhaps you mean "skilled at small unit tactics" or
"wears black, has fired a gun before, and can sneak". Is that what you
mean? Some people define professional as wearing a suit and tie to work.
It's a very vague term and rarely applies to those that would use it
frivolously. If it's attitude you're talking about, then the military is
the last place to look for professionalism. They're just
> If the Tir mage is also a former spook, works just as well. Not all
>spec forces teams love and share a 'warm, fuzzy feeling' for each other,
>BUT most are professional enough to work together to get the job done.
LOL! You got a choice between working with a group of people that you've
known for a long time (fellow ex-SEALs, let's say) and working with a guy
who you don't know, is sure he knows the best way to do things (and it isn't
your way, it's some damned fluffy elf way), and you're going to choose the
latter because you're pretty sure he's "professional"? You think the elf is
going to take orders from you when he knows the right way? You think the
Wildcat is going to listen to either of you? And let's not forget that
since the moment all of them were born, they were taught that the others are
"bad". Realistically, there's too much bad blood there.
Take two fire teams with members of equal rank. One team comes from Israel,
the other from Iran. How well are these two groups going to get along?
Realism, it stares us in the face every day...
>And who knows, after working with their opposite numbers for awhile,
>they may just develop a grudging respect for one another. This would go
>a long way to laying down more lasting links between the trio, than to
>simply lump them all together as types that should get along and say,
>you're a team.
Which is exactly what you're doing, lumping them together under the banner
of "professionalism" (without really knowing what the term means) and then
applying the BS patch "have worked together, now possess grudging respect".
That smells, Vic. Bad.
> Military, and spec forces in particular, are trained in a certain
>discipline that most amateur shadowrunners have no wish to emulate.
>[Look at Argent from Nigel Findley's books. He ran a team of
>Shadowrunners that was almost totally composed of ex-military, and they
>functioned like a well oiled machine. I'd say more, but then I'd need
>spoilers :-].
If you truly were a member of the armed forces, Vic, you'd know that easily
90% or more of the people in there have no idea what professionalism is...
those that do are often squashed by the boot of rank and service time...
I do, indeed, know of Argent. I also know that many of the shadowrunners in
the books run very similar. Argent is just equipped better and has some
1000+ karma to play with and a full team of mercenaries of his caliber that
he runs with. Of course he's going to be successful, some countries don't
have that kind of firepower, he's a powergamer's wet dream.
> You seem to think that anyone who can come up with a interesting
>and CONVINCING storyline, OTHER than you, why these three should hang
>together is full of BS! Now, if THAT isn't full of hubris, and a good
>helping Mad Cow Kaka, I don't know what is!
There is no such thing as a realistic storyline that'll patch those three
together. You can BS patch 'em endlessly, but it'll always be BS and it'll
stink forever. I'm a talented writer and I could BS patch them together
just like anyone here probably could, but it'd be BS. Get it?
> As a GM, you're supposed to
>HELP the players find a reason to stick together. It's hard, and it
>doesn't always work out, but that doesn't mean you aren't supposed to
>try. And don't give me the reason that you don't have the time. I'm
>pretty sure I'm a GOOD deal older than you are, and if anyone doesn't
>have time to waste on foolishness, it's me.
As a GM, you're supposed to run a campaign. It's up to the characters how
they react to each other. I don't tell characters how they met or why they
stay together or what they'll be doing for their next run. I just shape
where they want to go and how they want to work. You're sounding awfully
"fascist" here, Vic... what with forcing the players together and all...
> Only a civilian would make an assumption like that these three
>would have no reason to stick together as BS! [And NO, I'm NOT bashing
>civilians; I'm one right now, and enjoy it quite fine, thank you!] I
>suggest you take a look at the Shadowrun Military Page, and talk to a
>few of those guys over there, so's you get a better idea what you're
>meandering about.
Heh. I was military, Vic. My father was also in the military. I've seen
the great military machine in motion. Professional it isn't. I'll gladly
debate this with anyone, complete with numerous facts, should they really
wish to get into such a conversation with me. One can assume that the
military is run the best way possible by the best people possible at all
times and that everyone gets along and that everyone works together and that
everyone is happy and that nobody ever violates another person's rights or
dislikes/distrusts/despises/attacks them because of race, religion, or sex,
but it doesn't work that way. You'd have to be extremely naive to believe that.
>Or, maybe I'm totally wrong, and they'll vindicate you. Who knows...
Depends on their viewpoint. If it's comic-bookish in nature and doesn't
take into account decades of nationalism and racism, then they'll probably
disagree with me. If they look at the wide-view, the view that hasn't been
polished over by propaganda and swept under the carpet, then they'll
probably agree with me.
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:29:26 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Attitude is Everything :)
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At 07:58 AM 7/18/97 -0600, David wrote:
>TopCat wrote:
>| I've never said that powergamer means munchkin (why does
>| everyone think I said this?).
>I think I know what the problem is :)
So do I, but I'll save that bit for later... heh
>First, you have very strong opinions (a good thing).
Yes!
>You aren't afraid to voice these opinions (a good thing).
Yes!
>You seem to have a tendancy to "bunch" different nouns to talk about
>something. In the Munchkin thread you used the words Munchkin,
>Powergamer, and Over-powered in very close proximity. Ergo, the
>belief that you equated Munchkin with Powergamer (which has since
>been cleared up quite well).
Hmmm... okay... good that it's cleared up though :)
>You also tend to "wander" a little bit when communicating. It's a
>good conversational style, but leads to misinterpretation when
>discussing philosophy. And since you love to debate philosophy... :)
I know I wander, but it's often to state a related fact and/or show the
wide-view of a given situation. Maybe that does confuse people... hmm
>It's not any one thing, but a combination of attitude and style.
I don't know if it's that so much as the fact that when people read my
posts, all they hear is someone (a'la Hitler inciting a crowd or the
Martians in "Mars Attacks") screaming and yelling even when it's just a
regular post as most of mine are. Kinda funny to think about, but there's
got to be some of that going on out there... :)
>It's also a matter of people getting used to you.
Heh, only if they know me :)
>Anyway, I'm not advocating that you should change, just letting you
>know what I see.
That's cool... thanks for a well-informed and thought-out reply...
>And for everyone that butts heads with TC, read his posts as if
>you're having a friendly chat with him over a beer (or a koolaid for
>you youngters ;).
Well said! (though even the youngsters deserve a nip now and then) ;)
[ack-ackack-ack ACKACK-ACK!-ACK!!-ACKACKACK!!!] Heh.
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:29:23 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:33 AM 7/18/97 -0500, Bruce wrote:
>Y'know, I think I've vehemently disagreed with you on occasion, Bob, but that
>makes sense and I agree completely. If the system starts at a simple balance,
>it's easy to modify to what you want (I modify games a lot, and some *are* a
>pain because they rely too much on the balance expected of the characters in
>the campaign). SR is currently comfy as-is, power-wise, and tinkering should
>be kept to things which don't alter that balance in favor of any sort of
>character, imo.
YES!! Good deal, someone else that understands...
>I hope this was a little more than a 'me too'.
It was, but this post of mine was not. Just wanted to let you know that I
appreciate anything along these lines. I'll even take "me too" posts...
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:34:42 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: [Admin] Re: Long Range Game Design
In-Reply-To: <199707181729.MAA12789@*******.fgi.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:29 7/18/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>I don't prosecute powergamers or obliterate PCs... you sure you're thinking
>about me or is this some deep part of your psyche venting itself? Were you
>beaten as a kid? Did whoever did it make you call him TopCat? There's got
>to be *some* reason...
This is absolutely inappropriate Bob, both in its context and its
execution. In the future, can you please keep away from pot shots like that?
-Adam
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:48:12 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Design [Here it comes, TopCat!]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:59 AM 7/18/97 -0500, Mike wrote:
>Hehe...any one mind if I laugh my ass off for a while? See, I find this
>whole arguement between Topcat and Victor hilarious. "I play my game this
>way..." and "Well, I wouldn't do that, I play it like this..."
Hilarious
>to me. And you want to know why?
>I play in both of their games.
>I play in Victor's great "Mosaic" PBEM, and I play in Topcat's also
>wonderful RL game with some friends.
>Both games are great, and neither of them is very different from the other,
>power and gming wise. I should know. In fact, except for subtle
>differences, the character in Victor's game is the exact same as the one in
>Topcats.
>Perhaps you guys should stop arguing the same side?
First off, Victor is clueless. As in "without *any* clue", as to my gaming
style or even what was plainly posted by me. He continues to rant on about
things I've never done or said and I'm more than happy to put the verbal
smack-down on him when he does. I'll continue to do so in the future...
Also, the whole "patch" thing sucks. I don't subscribe to it and he does,
in fact he lives for it (or so it seems). Any schmoe with a pencil and
paper can create a patch to explain why lifelong enemies suddenly kiss and
make up, but it's BS and straight from the fairy tale realm. Maybe he'll
wake up and realize that it is just a patch and not a solution nor is it in
any way realistic, maybe he won't. I'm merely trying to enlighten the poor
soul.
Finally, I have to reiterate that he has absolutely no idea what he's
posting about. My posts were there, clearly detailed, and he took them in a
way that no other human with the capacity to understand the English language
would have. So long as he continues to do so, I'll tear him into tiny
pieces for it. My guess is that he's too blind and pig-headed to admit he's
wrong and that even if he wasn't, he's put way too much stake in his
imagined view to back down now.
I know Victor's views on this aspect of gaming quite well, I've actually
read his posts so I can say this. They aren't THAT much different than mine
in that, Mike is correct. Where I've taken up my cause is in the "patch"
portion of this and explaining to Victor that he is SO far off on my gaming
views. I mean, I used plain English, most people here can at least get an
idea of what was said from that. Why hasn't he caught on?
So by all means, let this continue... I've got my views and they're what
I've been saying they are. Whatever Victor is trying to say my views are is
both wrong and perceived as such by all but him. I'll happily shoot the guy
down post after post until he realizes this.
You realize it yet, Vic? You with the rest of the class now?
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:38:33 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Bull wrote:
>
> I hate you all!
>
> I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
>
> Argh!!!!!!!!!!
>
> :]
>
You didn't peak did you?!?!?!
'Course if you had you'd know what was really going on so, never mind.
.] o
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:51:31 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:29 PM 7/18/97 -0500, I wrote:
>At 12:33 AM 7/18/97 -0500, Bruce wrote:
>>Y'know, I think I've vehemently disagreed with you on occasion, Bob, but that
>>makes sense and I agree completely. If the system starts at a simple balance,
>>it's easy to modify to what you want (I modify games a lot, and some *are* a
>>pain because they rely too much on the balance expected of the characters in
>>the campaign). SR is currently comfy as-is, power-wise, and tinkering should
>>be kept to things which don't alter that balance in favor of any sort of
>>character, imo.
>
>YES!! Good deal, someone else that understands...
>
>>I hope this was a little more than a 'me too'.
>
>It was, but this post of mine was not.
Damn, got that backwards...
that last line there should read "It *wasn't*, but this post of mine *was*"
Sorry about that...
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:57:55 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [Admin] Long Range Game Design
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:34 AM 7/18/97 -0600, you wrote:
>>I don't prosecute powergamers or obliterate PCs... you sure you're thinking
>>about me or is this some deep part of your psyche venting itself? Were you
>>beaten as a kid? Did whoever did it make you call him TopCat? There's got
>>to be *some* reason...
>This is absolutely inappropriate Bob, both in its context and its
>execution. In the future, can you please keep away from pot shots like that?
Hey, the guy called me, among other things, a Nazi and I seem to remember
the fury that was brought down when *I* said that in a non-political sense.
Direct some of that his way and I can respect this post fully.
By the way, you ever follow through with the threat to unsubscribe anyone
who continued the "Runner's Attitudes" thread in a threatening manner? If
you did, you would've unsubscribed David Thompson for his post. I've got a
copy of it and would, at the least, like to know that he got reprimanded for
posting it. If nothing has been done, I'd like to know why?
Also, please direct such posts privately in the future as proper netiquette
demands. Makes things so much happier for all of us and keeps me from
getting irate and the poster from looking hypocritical...
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:02:24 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> > I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
> You didn't peak did you?!?!?!
>
> 'Course if you had you'd know what was really going on so, never mind.
No, AFAIK Bull was a good troggy and has NO idea what truly evil things lie
in wait for him!
EGMLOL!!!!
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:02:48 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: TopCat's Ascension to the Godhood. [WAY OT]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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Your wrong, TC. Your oh so wrong.
One side of your brain just isn't on the same wavelength as the one
that post your messages. You proclaim one thing, then are vehmenently
denying it the next. It's all starting to sound rather boring and trite.
More rantings. You should read your own posts, before you object to
something.
Smack me down? Mister, you haven't even come close. I'm so glad you
speak for all assembeled, as you so intimately know what they thinking
of your speeches. How very godlike of you.
Talented writer, rather modest, aren't we? Guess we'll all not so
gifted, eh?
Using plain english is one thing. So does a parrot.
If you think you've 'won', fine. Knock your self out. Maybe you'll
even believe it.
Maybe you should reread what I was trying to say, rather than
injecting your own viewpoint over it.
Thanks to Mike, I can pretty much blow off your posts for what they
are,.....
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:06:00 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: TopCat's Ascension [Okay,
I've slapped myself for being bad on that last one...]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I'll quit this thread and associated others, so you Admin guys don't
have to step in.
Kohl
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:11:26 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: TopCat's Ascension to the Godhood. [WAY OT]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Please take all this flame crap private.
No one wants to see you two overly hormonal jerkwads spewing invective over
the list.
Unless this thread is actively contributing to something seriously SR
related, please kill it.
Feel free to continue to act juvenile and immature on private email.
I'd hate to stop your fun, it's just that it's getting really old having to
see your dirty laundry on this list.
You both have some good points, but IMO you're letting your ego's continue
a dead thread.
You obviously don't agree, and NO amount of arguing is likely to change
that fact.
Personally I don't ccare who's right and who's wrong.
There is no "One True Way" to play SR.
Get over yourselves please.
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:17:13 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: TopCat's Ascension to the Godhood. [WAY OT]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 02:02 PM 7/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Your wrong, TC. Your oh so wrong.
I'm wrong in that I know my gaming views? Whatever...
>One side of your brain just isn't on the same wavelength as the one
>that post your messages. You proclaim one thing, then are vehmenently
>denying it the next. It's all starting to sound rather boring and trite.
>More rantings. You should read your own posts, before you object to
>something.
I've never proclaimed one thing and denied it (and certainly not in this
thread). In fact, if you want copies of my messages, I'll be more than
happy to forward them to you for re-reading. Would you like them?
>Smack me down? Mister, you haven't even come close. I'm so glad you
>speak for all assembeled, as you so intimately know what they thinking
>of your speeches. How very godlike of you.
Godlike? No, I haven't asked for money yet and I don't expect to do so
anytime soon. As far as knowing my own mind and reading what I write, I can
do that. Does this make me godlike?
As for smacking you down, you still haven't understood a word and continue
to make a bigger ass of yourself with each post. Perhaps I'm not the one
putting the smack-down on you, you are. Way to go, Vic. You impress me
more and more with every post.
>Talented writer, rather modest, aren't we? Guess we'll all not so
>gifted, eh?
I'm good and I know I'm good. Not everyone is so gifted, no. I can't draw
for shit though and many people can. If I wasn't good, I wouldn't say that
I was. Humbleness is for the untalented. I have rather humble drawing
skills. You understanding any of this, Vic?
>Using plain english is one thing. So does a parrot.
And yet you don't understand it... maybe you should buy a parrot, Vic.
>If you think you've 'won', fine. Knock your self out. Maybe you'll
>even believe it.
Of course I believe it, I won before your first rant appeared. You were
wrong about my views from the start and you've only snowballed since then.
Bravo!
>Maybe you should reread what I was trying to say, rather than
>injecting your own viewpoint over it.
I quoted everything you said in each reply. I read it carefully, in between
bursts of laughter and an occasional evil grin, and replied to it. My own
viewpoint is what you're so very far off on and you still haven't realized
that yet. WTG, Vic... you're another stat working to prove that the US
school system really doesn't work...
>Thanks to Mike, I can pretty much blow off your posts for what they
>are,.....
The truth? You've been blowing that off since the start... what's different
about that?
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:04:58 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Saving the Team by Self-Sacrifice
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:55 PM 7/17/97 -0400, Keith wrote:
>In a message dated 97-07-17 16:35:17 EDT, topcat@***.NET (TopCat) writes:
>>Power is always a decision. You don't accidentally take a PAC, you take
>>it because it is powerful. Deciding to play a powerful character does,
>>indeed, come with responsibilities (and I take each of those very seriously,
>>though many of the players of such characters do not), but there is also the
>>responsibility to play the game as a group and within the bounds of a
>>given campaign. If you let a superpowered character into a group of
>>low-powered types, it'll ruin the game for all involved. I choose never to
>>let that situation occur. Saves me a lot of trouble.
>No real argument except for the rare one now and again that understand that
>for all, and just wants to play. He's not out to, and even takes steps to
>ensure, that s/he won't destroy the game.
For that rare one, then, I'll agree. I wouldn't let him in on the chance,
but he still might end up working out in someone else's game. It could
happen, though, and I'll agree to that. :)
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:18:35 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: [Admin] Re: Long Range Game Design
In-Reply-To: <199707181741.LAA01901@******> from "Adam J" at Jul 18,
97 11:34:42 am
Content-Type: text
Adam J wrote:
|
| At 12:29 7/18/97 -0500, you wrote:
| >
| >I don't prosecute powergamers or obliterate PCs... you sure you're thinking
| >about me or is this some deep part of your psyche venting itself? Were you
| >beaten as a kid? Did whoever did it make you call him TopCat? There's got
| >to be *some* reason...
|
| This is absolutely inappropriate Bob, both in its context and its
| execution. In the future, can you please keep away from pot shots like that?
Aw geez, I can't believe I'm going to do this.
Fro, I think an Admin posting is required, but not because Bob got a
little dramatic. If a member partially flames another member, IMO
it's not the Admin's responsibility to step in and send one or the
other to their corner. Only if it's an outright Flame is it the
responsibility of the Admin to dowse the fire. If Bob had refered to
Victor with name calling or direct insults then he would have Flamed
him, in which case you would be well within your rights to unsub him
and give him a firm warning. IMHO, Bob's post was not a flame. You
and I don't know what kind of emotion Bob put into his post, whether
he was sneering with contempt, or talking in a casual tone of voice.
As to the reason that an Admin posting is needed, is because Bob and
Victor's discussion has gone *way* off topic.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:17:40 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Loseke <mike@******.VERINET.COM>
Subject: Re: A WildCat, a Navy SEAL, and a Tir mage go into a bar...
In-Reply-To: <199707181729.MAA12801@*******.fgi.net> from "TopCat" at Jul
18,
97 12:29:17 pm
Content-Type: text
Quoth TopCat:
>
> At 09:44 AM 7/18/97 -0400, Victor wrote:
>
> > If the Tir mage is also a former spook, works just as well. Not all
> >spec forces teams love and share a 'warm, fuzzy feeling' for each other,
> >BUT most are professional enough to work together to get the job done.
>
> LOL! You got a choice between working with a group of people that you've
> known for a long time (fellow ex-SEALs, let's say) and working with a guy
> who you don't know, is sure he knows the best way to do things (and it isn't
> your way, it's some damned fluffy elf way), and you're going to choose the
> latter because you're pretty sure he's "professional"? You think the elf
is
> going to take orders from you when he knows the right way? You think the
> Wildcat is going to listen to either of you? And let's not forget that
> since the moment all of them were born, they were taught that the others are
> "bad". Realistically, there's too much bad blood there.
>
> Take two fire teams with members of equal rank. One team comes from Israel,
> the other from Iran. How well are these two groups going to get along?
> Realism, it stares us in the face every day...
The phrase you're looking for here is "inter-service rivalry". It happens
everywhere, not just in the military. Not only do people in the Army
make fun of the Army Air Corps (US Air Force - see US History), but it
happens in police forces as well. The local police dept doesn't want
the FBI nosing in on it's case, for example.
> >And who knows, after working with their opposite numbers for awhile,
> >they may just develop a grudging respect for one another. This would go
> >a long way to laying down more lasting links between the trio, than to
> >simply lump them all together as types that should get along and say,
> >you're a team.
>
> Which is exactly what you're doing, lumping them together under the banner
> of "professionalism" (without really knowing what the term means) and then
> applying the BS patch "have worked together, now possess grudging respect".
> That smells, Vic. Bad.
I agree. Just because two people are profesional does not mean that they
will ignore any differences or personal feelings when they need to get
something done together. My itty-bitty Websters defines "professional"
as "referring to a profession; expert" and "professionalism" as
"expertise/skill". We always tend to attach more traits to these words
than the definitions have. Professionalism has always been a sore point
with me and some of my friends when it comes to playing SR in certain
scenarios.
> > Military, and spec forces in particular, are trained in a certain
> >discipline that most amateur shadowrunners have no wish to emulate.
> >[Look at Argent from Nigel Findley's books. He ran a team of
> >Shadowrunners that was almost totally composed of ex-military, and they
> >functioned like a well oiled machine. I'd say more, but then I'd need
> >spoilers :-].
>
> If you truly were a member of the armed forces, Vic, you'd know that easily
> 90% or more of the people in there have no idea what professionalism is...
> those that do are often squashed by the boot of rank and service time...
:) True. Very few of the higher ranking officers and NCO's are actually
worthy of the praise some people seem to think they deserve. Heck, I thought
that the Army was doing pretty good, with regards all of these sex scandals
popping up, until the SMA got pointed at a couple weeks ago. Very few
people in the military are actually worthy of the title "professional". Ever
heard of the phrase "F*ck up, move up"?
> > Only a civilian would make an assumption like that these three
> >would have no reason to stick together as BS! [And NO, I'm NOT bashing
> >civilians; I'm one right now, and enjoy it quite fine, thank you!] I
> >suggest you take a look at the Shadowrun Military Page, and talk to a
> >few of those guys over there, so's you get a better idea what you're
> >meandering about.
Even expert military folks will respect a civilian who shows expertise
in their field. Just because they aren't in the same service doesn't mean
that they won't work with each other. But, there is a certain level of
responsibility, and the way that a person acts, that people in any service
expect from professionals in that service. If any of the expected actions
are not taen that that person drops a few notches in the observers view.
> Heh. I was military, Vic. My father was also in the military. I've seen
> the great military machine in motion. Professional it isn't. I'll gladly
> debate this with anyone, complete with numerous facts, should they really
> wish to get into such a conversation with me. One can assume that the
> military is run the best way possible by the best people possible at all
> times and that everyone gets along and that everyone works together and that
> everyone is happy and that nobody ever violates another person's rights or
> dislikes/distrusts/despises/attacks them because of race, religion, or sex,
> but it doesn't work that way. You'd have to be extremely naive to believe that.
One example to prove topcat's point: my tank platoon in Germany received a
shiny new 2LT, straight out of the Air Force Academy! How did this happen?
We never found out. You thought Army trained officers couldn't read maps?
The first thing this guy did was lead us across a couple of farmers fields
near the Hof border causing about DM250,000 worth of damage because
he couldn't read the road signs. Then, on the same border mission, he
proceeded to direct his tank into taking 9 feet of siding off of the
side of a house that was pretty close to the road. This does not fit
the definition of professional. There was no way we wanted anything to
do with this guy.
--
|
Mike Loseke | You never know how fluffy poodles are,
mike@*******.com | until you step in one.
|
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:52:55 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Attitude is Everything :)
In-Reply-To: <199707181733.LAA01489@******> from "TopCat" at Jul 18,
97 12:29:26 pm
Content-Type: text
TopCat wrote:
|
| At 07:58 AM 7/18/97 -0600, David wrote:
|
| >It's not any one thing, but a combination of attitude and style.
|
| I don't know if it's that so much as the fact that when people read my
| posts, all they hear is someone (a'la Hitler inciting a crowd or the
| Martians in "Mars Attacks") screaming and yelling even when it's just a
| regular post as most of mine are. Kinda funny to think about, but there's
| got to be some of that going on out there... :)
Okay, let me try to clarify :) For example, when I read Gurth's
posts I imagine him as a friendly person who's more than willing to
help a total stranger. That may not be true, but based on his
writing style that's what I see in my mind's eye. When I read Mr.
Broadwater's posts I see a stern, intelligent man with a glint of
stuborness in his eyes. Again, it may not be true but that's what
his writing style is like.
In my mind you present yourself as a funloving, yet strict, guy with
just a bit of a mean streak. It's not an evil kind of mean streak,
but one of those that will tease you now and then and enjoy it.
Hmmm.. that's not quite right either. You know the Cheshire cat in
Alice in Wonderland? Put a tophat on it and it's you :) You always
know what your talking about, but those that are listening may or may
not have a clue, and sometimes it feels like you're being
intentionally deceptive, when in fact it's just your nature. Also,
one wonders why you said what you just did. BTW, I'm not trying to
slam you, just letting you know how *I* see you. I have no idea how
others see you. And I acknowledge that my view is probably not even
close to who you really are.
The point of this is that people do lend an emotion to their posts
because of their writing style. Their writing style may not
accurately reflect them, but that's what people see. Also, each
reader imagines the poster differently. I see you as a likeable guy,
others don't. Most people seem to like me, but I'm sure there's at
least one person who thinks I'm a twit :)
Did that make any sense?
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:12:08 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: Attitude is Everything :)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:52 PM 7/18/97 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:
>TopCat wrote:
>|
>When I read Mr.
>Broadwater's posts I see a stern, intelligent man with a glint of
>stuborness in his eyes. Again, it may not be true but that's what
>his writing style is like.
Hey, I can live with that. And what's with this Mr. stuff? I'm only 21. :)
Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/
The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton
Gencon count down: 19 days
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:15:15 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Attitude is Everything :)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 02:12 PM 7/18/97 -0500, you wrote:
>At 12:52 PM 7/18/97 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:
>>When I read Mr.
>>Broadwater's posts I see a stern, intelligent man with a glint of
>>stuborness in his eyes. Again, it may not be true but that's what
>>his writing style is like.
>Hey, I can live with that. And what's with this Mr. stuff? I'm only 21. :)
Except for the fact that that glint is more like the light of an oncoming
train... heheh. "That... is not... apple juice..." LOL!
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:23:30 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Attitude is Everything :)
In-Reply-To: <199707181913.NAA06421@******> from "Michael Broadwater" at
Jul
18, 97 02:12:08 pm
Content-Type: text
Michael Broadwater wrote:
|
| At 12:52 PM 7/18/97 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:
| >TopCat wrote:
| >|
| >When I read Mr.
| >Broadwater's posts I see a stern, intelligent man with a glint of
| >stuborness in his eyes. Again, it may not be true but that's what
| >his writing style is like.
|
| Hey, I can live with that. And what's with this Mr. stuff? I'm only 21. :)
I still remember the last time someone called you Mr. :)
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:09:13 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: [OT] Re: Attitude is Everything :)
In-Reply-To: <199707181915.NAA06507@******> from "TopCat" at Jul 18,
97 02:15:15 pm
Content-Type: text
TopCat wrote:
|
| At 02:12 PM 7/18/97 -0500, you wrote:
| >At 12:52 PM 7/18/97 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:
| >>When I read Mr.
| >>Broadwater's posts I see a stern, intelligent man with a glint of
| >>stuborness in his eyes. Again, it may not be true but that's what
| >>his writing style is like.
|
| Except for the fact that that glint is more like the light of an oncoming
| train... heheh. "That... is not... apple juice..." LOL!
I'm almost afraid to ask.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:07:46 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: [Admin] Long Range Game Design
In-Reply-To: <199707181757.MAA15312@*******.fgi.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:57 7/18/97 -0500, you wrote:
>By the way, you ever follow through with the threat to unsubscribe anyone
>who continued the "Runner's Attitudes" thread in a threatening manner? If
>you did, you would've unsubscribed David Thompson for his post. I've got a
>copy of it and would, at the least, like to know that he got reprimanded for
>posting it. If nothing has been done, I'd like to know why?
* Adam whips his fingers off the keyboard and beings pointing around the
mailing list rapidly.
Nothing was done because the tone of the emails had shifted more towards
friendly. Also, I shouldn't have tacked [Admin] onto the runners post,
since it would have filtered to the top of someones mailbox, instead of in
with the thread. (If they sort by subject, which most people seem to do.)
Bad handling on my part in that case.
>Also, please direct such posts privately in the future as proper netiquette
>demands. Makes things so much happier for all of us and keeps me from
>getting irate and the poster from looking hypocritical...
Please, in the future, direct mail that has nothing to do with Shadowrun in
general, to the person who posted the comments you are replying too.
Most of your recent posts have nothing to interest the list in general, and
could easily go private.
Can we please end all this petty shit?
The list has a purpose, and this is not it.
-Adam
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:36:28 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: david lowe <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 2:32 AM 7/18/97, Steven A. Tinner wrote:
<snippagae of stuff about Dark Conspiracy>
>On the whole I thought that DC had a LOT of potential, but was hindered by
>a shabby rules system, and a lack of support.
>
Actually, I have several DC supplements, even though I never bought the
game itself. They've given me some great SR ideas...
D.
David R. Lowe (dlowe@****.com)
Photography/Graphic Design
"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby."
-Daffy Duck
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:28:01 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy
In-Reply-To: <199707182025.OAA09585@******> from "david lowe" at Jul 18,
97 01:36:28 pm
Content-Type: text
david lowe wrote:
|
| Actually, I have several DC supplements, even though I never bought the
| game itself. They've given me some great SR ideas...
Care to share? <EGMG>
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 16:34:30 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: TopCat's Ascension to the Godhood. [WAY OT]
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:02:48 -0400"
<c=US%a=_%pÞSHAW%l=MSBOSTON1-970718180248Z-10469@*********.boston.deshaw.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
You wrote:
> Thanks to Mike, I can pretty much blow off your posts for what they
> are,.....
I think you (all who are involved in these sort of posts) can stop wasting
everyone's time now. Private EMail is much more appropriate for this sort of
thing, is it not? Bitching back and forth at each other in public just seems
like a 'my dick's bigger than yours' contest. No more parting shots, no more
'this is my final reply to this', just stop.
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 16:43:20 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: WotC's Acquisitiveness
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
M. Sean Martinez once dared to write,
>You know, before TSR was bought, represntives said the same thing, and WOTC
>doesn't want a buyout of FASA-just the rights to BattleTech and Shadowrun.
>
>I personally am waiting to after Gen Con to see what happens.
>
>-El Bandit, hoping this is all some wierd dream.
WAKE UP!!!
TSR also stopped releasing new products and had a major layoff of
employees. I haven't seen this repeated anywhere else in the industry for
there to be a potential target for a buy-out. Stop crying the sky is
falling and get back to talking about Shadowrun or be quiet. Rumors are
rumors and I don't care to have my time wasted by them. Take this
conspiracy theory claptrap elsewhere.
- MC23, who is Damn tired of this thread -
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:16:36 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 02:22 AM 7/17/97 -0600, Caun Haskins wrote these timeless words:
>I read the Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings (not the next two though,
>school kicked in and never got back to them) but I figured that most
>races were already conceived when Tolken wrote his masterpieces, weren't
>they the based on mythology? I personally never doubted in them (I was
>grown up on Fantasy) He does have a great influence over all Fantasy
>though, you're right, Thanks J. R.R. Tolken, (RIP) what about AD&D in SR
>I can't spot anything except they started RPG as Tolken apparently
>started the Fantasy genre. That all the connection?
>
Tolkien based SOME of his stuff on various Mythologies, but some ideas were
his and his alone.
The Elves, for example. before Tolkien, elevs were tiny pixie like beings
with lots of magic. I can't recall a single fable or myth that had human
sized Elevs. Tolkien was the first to make Elves what they're become today
in fantasy fiction adn RPG's. Tall people, usually as part of a normal
"race" of beings with their own govedrnment and such.
Troll's are another example. While SR trolls aren't really much like
Tolkiens Trolls, They're much closer to tolkaien's than AD&D's. AD&D Trolls
were usually mostly mindless, tall skinny regenerating things. Tolkiens
were Huge 10 foot tall beasties with minimal intelligence. However, they
DID turn to stone in daylight, so...
Dwarves are dwarves. They haven't really changed much, though in some of
the old fables, they were more like eveil little burrowing gnomes than thw
Race of Dwarves were so familiar with in Fantasy today.
Orks... Well... SR is probably the only game I know of where Orks are a
normal, viable race. AD&D came close with it's half orcs, but... That's
still not the same... And Orcs in Tolkien were pretty much the same as in
AD&D: Evil green beasties... They were also called Goblins in Tolkiens
books...
Most of the fantasy aspect of SR comes from tolkien, while the futuristic
stuff comes partly from Cyberpunk and the whole Cyberpunk Genre. It's an
interesting blend, and makes SR very unique...:]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:16:44 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OOC?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:15 AM 7/18/97 -0400, M. Sean Martinez wrote these timeless words:
>In a message dated 97-07-18 04:03:51 EDT, you write:
>
>>At the moment, GW doesn't have any true problems... But they DO have a lot
>of >pissed off players who are desperately looking for Miniatures Elsewhere
>for the >games...
>
>But the players still buy the figures. I see it all the time in the store I
>used to run. "Bob" would come in and complain about the prices, but still
buy
>the figures.
>
Agreed... I still buy *some* figures, despite the attrocious cost.
However, I've passed on quite a few neat mini's that I would have otherwise
bought for various reasons. The Green Knight, for example. I could think
of a dozen fun conversions to do to the thing to make it a cool Empire
General or a great mutated Chaos Knight, or even a Champion (I play Empire,
Chaos, and Chaos Dwarves, so...;)). But at $20.00, it wasn't worth it...
>Though, I have noticed that some players are getting alternative figures for
>their armies, not as many in my area. (About 1 out of 25 players)
>
>The clone figures produced by several other companies could pose a problem
>for GWUS, so I do see your point.
>
The problem now is hat there aren't enough of the clone figures available
yet, and the ones that are out there are hard to find. And of course if
you want to play in any official GW tourney... YOu have to have official
GW mini's...
>>GW has been doing some really BAD things... Like raising the price of EVERY
>>blister pack of mini's 50 cents, and raising all their boxed sets 10% across
>the >board. plus some of their newer mini's have some rediculous prices,
>like the Green >Knight. It's a REALLY cool looking and nicely done, but at
>$20.00 for a single >mounted mini, it's hideously overpriced...:(
>
>The price increase doesn't really bother me that much, since their figures
>are always the best quality. Lead/pewter I do not mind paying for, but their
>plastics are really over priced.
>
I think they are ALL getting overpriced. it wasn't so bad a year ago, but
they've started making their boxed sets smaller and more expensive, and
raising the price on their new blisters. hell, the game shop near me, when
I started putting my Empire army together earlier this year, had a couple
of the old Emp Morters. They were 5 bucks. They just got in a bunch of
the new Morter that GW did. I don;t think it's any nicer than the old one,
but it still cost $9.50! That's almost double the price!!
But you're right, the plastics cost almost as much as the metal mini's
anymore, and that's just ridiculous...
>>They have also stopped making or supporting several of their "smaller"
>games, >such as their Warhammer Quest and Blood Bowl games....
>
>Blood bowl is coming back. I am not sure what's going on with Warhammer
>quest, but I have heard that they have some new stuff for it coming out at
>the begining of next year.
>
Yeah, But I think BB os ONLY making a come back because there are a LOT of
fans out there with net access, and they've been pestering Jervis Johnson
about it ever since it got discontinued. hell, the Blood Bowl mailing list
got almost as much traffic as this one while I was on it...
As for WHQ, there is some support for it, but it's minimal. And GW has
been promising more support for the game for a long time now, and all we've
seen in a year was the Brettonian Knight...
>>Plus, they went to direct distributorship, and then required a certain
>amount to be >ordered, thus makig it near impossible for smaller shops to
>afford the mini's, thus >they stopped carrying them.
>
>I will admit that the $500 minimum order can be a bit steep for some shops,
>but the average GWUS player will have to sppend $300+ to get their armies. If
>the shops can not meet the minimum once a month, then truthfully they will do
>better carring something else. My shop finally got to the point where most of
>our customers were dealing on the internet, buying at cost, so we droped the
>line.
>
I don;t agree here... Yeah, 300+ bucks for an army sounds right, but a lot
of people don't go out an blow taht much at one time. they can't afford
to. most people buy the boxed set, some support mini's for the army of
their choice, and use the basic figs from the boxed set as whatever is
needed until they can pick up more figs for their army. hell, I still use
a lot of Empire and Chaos knights from the old Battlemasters game.
Plus, most stores around here don;t carry WH mini's as major line, or
mini's in general. tehre's only one out of 4 that has enough of a customer
base to really stock the figures. But the other stores DID make some money
from selling the Mini's before, and since they were closer for me, it was
nice to be able to pick up a few new figs from the store around the corner.
By requiring a minimum purchase of mini's, a lot of the stores lost a small
corner of their market by not being able to stock the figs. EVen a couple
hundred bucks a month can make a big difference in a small game shop's
profits... And we really only have small game shops out here.
>>However, Warhamemr products have reached an all time high in popularity in
>the >US, which is part of the reason GW is getting greedy.
>
>Let's face it, they admit that they are in it to make money. I would be too.
>
Agreed... But when you start sacrificing your players in the name of
profit.., that's the road to destruction...:] TSR did the same thing.
Look at how many people here vehemently hate TSR and everything related to
them!
>>Hopefully, GW will learn from TSR's mistakes. Otherwise, the giant of the
>Mini >Industry could find itself needing rescued, in which case I can
>definately see WOTC >bailing them out.
>
>TSR made many other mistakes, like ticking off their distribtors at GenCon
>one year or how about hiring friends to sit and shuffle papers. My favorite
>was when TSR was building their new office, sold the old before the new one
>was completed, only to rent it back for 3 months from the new owners.
>
Agreed... But GW is quicklymaking similar mistakes, and it's costing them
some of their old player base. It's going to cost them, and cost them big,
soon...
>-Bandit
>
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:16:59 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Totems
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:27 PM 7/18/97 +1000, Chris Maxfield wrote these timeless words:
>At 00:00 18/07/97 +1000, Glenn Munro wrote:
>>I have to disagree here. Hermetic mages study to learn their magic often
>>using mathematical formulas and the like. Those that even bother to try you
>>would expect to have average and above willpowers. Then with the shamanic
>>tradition why would a totem choose low willpowered individuals? The totem
> ^^^^^^^
>>wants to advance its own cause and would choose the best people for that
>>job and people with low willpower generally would not suit.
>
><grin> What?!?! Damn. I thought totems were just a convenient mental
>magical crutch for the shaman. No more real than any other hallucination.
></grin>
>
>Seriously though. Have the members of this list concluded that the totems
>are real - objectively and substantively real? This seems a bit too AD&Dish
>for me.
>
This REALLY gets into a wierd area, where you will get lots of varied
opinion, but yes, i think the list consensus is that Totems are real, i one
way or another. Now, go ask what a Totem is, and you'll get a dozen
different answers, but most will agree that Totems are real, in one way or
another.
In my personal game, they are very real, and very undefined...;]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:17:09 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: WotC's Acquisitiveness
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:32 PM 7/18/97 +0100, Spike wrote these timeless words:
>|FASA would be fools to sell anything to TotC, given their prior loyalty to
>|the industry..... ^
>
>OK, so, I'm a crap typer... It should of course be a 'W'....
>But you all knew that anyway....
>
Just as a minor note here. I've followed up the forwarding of Lou's post
to the ED list with a direct question aimed at Mike Mulvhill. Basically, I
tld him about this thread, and the rumours, and asked him to comment on it,
and hopefully tell us that it's complete Drek. :]
Don;t expect to see a reply until sometime next week, at the very earliest,
as Mike is at Origins this weekend...;]
See ya!
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:29:17 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: WotC's Acquisitiveness
In a message dated 97-07-18 17:08:30 EDT, you write:
<< TSR also stopped releasing new products and had a major layoff of
employees. I haven't seen this repeated anywhere else in the industry for
there to be a potential target for a buy-out. Stop crying the sky is
falling and get back to talking about Shadowrun or be quiet. Rumors are
rumors and I don't care to have my time wasted by them. Take this
conspiracy theory claptrap elsewhere.
>
Escuse me, but I do not think my post required that response. I was merely
participating in a discussion, inputing my thoughts. I have that right, just
like you.
I also don't see how you can say I believe that the sky is falling. I just
stated that I will wait until after Gencon to believe what Lou said.
Afterall, TSR said exactly the same thing before they were bought, but I will
also not go there.
Up until last month FASA only accounted for 3% of the role playing market,
TSR made up 70%. [according top comic retailer monthly] Gee, for someone who
is not producing product they make up an aweful lot of the market.
Besides most mail servers have a "DELETE" button in which you can skip topics
you do not want to read. I do it all the time, most recently on the thread of
the Orgasm spell.
Since everything has already been said, the only thing to do is wait and see.
You know, my previous post would have been my last on this topic until you
jumped all over me.
A polite "please, lets move on with another topic" would have been IMHO a
better approach.
-Bandit
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:38:16 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Kabael <kabael@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Totems -Reply
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 09:31 AM 7/18/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>Seriously though. Have the members of this list
>>concluded that the totems are real - objectively
>>and substantively real? This seems a bit too
>>AD&Dish for me.
>
I always took the Totems to be powerful spirits who guided the shaman, but
didnt supply his power, per se, they merely teach him how to use it porperly
(from their POV). They cannot be total figments, otherwise how would the
insect shaman be possessed by their totem, or the voudoun (connected IMHO)
woudnt be ridden. Explaining it away as pure hallucination trivializes it a
bit, but so does making the totems gods. OC, both explanations are MORE than
proper in the setting though. Many a mage and a shaman have duked out the
issue, I am sure : )
>Took me a minute to figure out what AD&D had
>to do with it, and then I figured out you meant
>clerics w/ "real" gods vs. magic users with "just"
>magic.
>
>Anyway, there are a few questions like this that
>Shadowrun the game system is agnostic about:
>Are totems real or figments, does conjuring
>summon or create spirits, does magic follow
>rules of nature or is it a thing of spirit and intent.
>(Actually the answer to the last one, like "Is light
>a particle or a wave?", is fairly clear: the answer
>is "YES")
>
yes no maybe so : )
>IMHO, if it were possible to devise an expirement
>that would answer these questions, some PHd in
>Thaumaturgy would have tried it already, and
>FASA would have revealed the result. Therefore,
>all such experements have been inconclusive.
>Therefore, in my game, neither the characters
>nor the players can know the answers to these
>questions (although they can have opinions).
>
>Totems come out of the collective unconscious,
>and whether the sixth age has given these
>archetypes (in the Jungian, not the SR sense)
>actual identities isn't clear. Maybe a dog
>shaman is simply in better contact with the
>dog-like parts of humanities collective brains,
>with the astral plane working like a giant
>switchboard of ideas, concepts and information.
>His subconscious becomes aware of something,
>and presto--Dog appears in his mind to tell him.
>
very hermetic :- )
k a b a e l meo the shoes :- ) kabael@****.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:03:05 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Nelson <kuthuga@***.NET>
Subject: TopCat love him with money or he'll hate you with hammers
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970718174012.082fddca@***.tiac.net> from
"Kabael" at
Jul 18, 97 05:38:16 pm
Content-Type: text
I have never seen one person take up so much space on a list before.
For that I have to give both TopCat, the list demagauge, and Bob, my
friend, a hearty applause. However, while watching this jihad carry
out has been interesting it has also gone farther and farther off
topic. This fact seems to bother some of the bandwith impaired so
allow me to offer a solution. I play in TC's Shadowrun, (pause while
everyone gasps that I survived), and have a nigh messianic insight
into people's souls :). So from now on when you want to know if TC's
Shadowrun is like a siberian gulag all you have to do is email me and
I will give you the straight dope.
Now to answer some of the more common questions I have heard;
1) Is TC a facist?
a: Not as much as you might think. While he is fond of the pulpit he
can usually be swayed by a reasoned arguement.
2) Is TC a huge Powergamer?
a: TC much like myself is a recovering powergamer. His condition like
mine stemmed from a case of good resource mangement skills and waaaay
too much free time.
and finally
3) Is TC the antichrist come to rage war on Brits and Liberal types?
a: Yes, but buy him a drink and he softens up.
Mike Nelson (your source for TopCat info)
mike@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 03:02:16 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
In-Reply-To: <970717201929_-1845253330@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <970717201929_-1845253330@*******.mail.aol.com>, "J. Keith
Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM> rambled on endlessly about We Don't Need No
Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
>In a message dated 97-07-17 03:03:10 EDT, chaos@*****.COM (Bull) writes:
>
>> Heh... Should I post Bull's stats? i think his lowest is now a 5...
> <heh>
>>
>> But then, when you get close to 400 Karma, what the hell do you expect??
>> Look at the shit we have to do...
>>
>>
>I would have to say the same thing about Binder actually, though his karma is
>a few higher than that.
Fascinating, in five years of playing Shadowrun, none of my players have
had characters, even the long term ones, anywhere near this Karma total.
Boy am I going to lynched if they find out. :)
--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:01:13 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells
In a message dated 97-07-18 00:31:04 EDT, topcat@***.NET writes:
>
> Get where I'm coming from?
> --
>
Yeah, actually I do, but you ability to initially communicate that leaves
people such as myself somewhat confused and no less bewildered.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:34:47 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Designs
In-Reply-To: <199707180438.XAA05898@*******.fgi.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In message <199707180438.XAA05898@*******.fgi.net>, TopCat
<topcat@***.NET> writes
>Okay, here's how this would look... ex-Wildcat finds an ex-SEAL and they
>want to work together. Couldn't find two groups perhaps more opposed to
>each other (NAN and CAS). Throw in a Tir mage (everyone hates the elves)
>and it's a party! There's no real reason for them to be together (and yes,
>anyone can come up with some BS story that'll link 'em, but BS by any other
>name still stinks).
No need for a story... They've been hired individually and only meet up
when the job starts.
GM sits back and watches the fur fly :)
Fun for a one-off, but it wouldn't work as a campaign. They might get
the mission completed, but here I agree with Bob: I don't see a trio
like that volunteering to work together, nor staying as a team for a
moment longer than absolutely necessary.
--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 15:54:17 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
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Avenger wrote:
>
> In article <970717201929_-1845253330@*******.mail.aol.com>, "J. Keith
> Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM> rambled on endlessly about We Don't Need No
> Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
> >In a message dated 97-07-17 03:03:10 EDT, chaos@*****.COM (Bull) writes:
> >
> >> Heh... Should I post Bull's stats? i think his lowest is now a 5...
> > <heh>
> >>
> >> But then, when you get close to 400 Karma, what the hell do you expect??
> >> Look at the shit we have to do...
> >>
> >>
> >I would have to say the same thing about Binder actually, though his karma is
> >a few higher than that.
>
> Fascinating, in five years of playing Shadowrun, none of my players have
> had characters, even the long term ones, anywhere near this Karma total.
> Boy am I going to lynched if they find out. :)
Us either...I think I had the highest total ever with somewhere in the
neighborhood of 200.
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:05:24 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Designs
In a message dated 97-07-18 00:39:12 EDT, topcat@***.NET writes:
>
> Okay, here's how this would look... ex-Wildcat finds an ex-SEAL and they
> want to work together. Couldn't find two groups perhaps more opposed to
> each other (NAN and CAS). Throw in a Tir mage (everyone hates the elves)
> and it's a party! There's no real reason for them to be together (and
yes,
> anyone can come up with some BS story that'll link 'em, but BS by any
other
> name still stinks).
I'm not really certain I would have used something so quick, but I realize
that you are just example giving "on the fly". I would have wondered
"why"
the Wildcat and Seal are "ex", and what's with the Tir mage joining up. Look
at the potential linkups between Damien Knight and that one Sioux Mage (damn,
the one time I forget something).
> Ahh, but Shadowrun isn't just for Shadowrunners anymore (kinda like beer
and
> breakfast that way)... I think we all know that much by now. Also, in
> comparison to some of the things I've seen posted here, GBD and Troll Tank
> might well mesh right into a lot of campaigns out there.
On that note, true...but where do you set the Beer? Oh yeah, I remember now,
the "Cybermug", able to contain internally in your favorite cyberlimb for a
fraction of the space necessary (Volume???). Keep it cold for an indefinite
time just by adding in the "Netcooler", using the latest in pressured
Nitrogen (and it makes a really -cool- weapon to boot).
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:09:25 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Dragons at the end of an age
In a message dated 97-07-18 01:27:18 EDT, daddyjim@**********.COM (Loki)
writes:
M
e
r
c
u
r
i
a
l
S
p
o
i
l
e
r
s
f
o
r
t
h
e
U
l
t
r
a
S
e
n
s
i
t
i
v
e
>
> Now, Perianwyr isn't a great dragon so this would seem to imply that
> both great and lesser dragons both go into a sleep or stasis during
> times of low/no mana.
>
Okay, now I admit that it was 7 years ago (6?), but I recall Perianwyr being
a Great Western Dragon.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:51:31 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Things that always annoyed you in SR2....
In-Reply-To: <ufzprm9f1x.fsf@*******.hanse.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In message <ufzprm9f1x.fsf@*******.hanse.de>, "Shadowrun ML demon
<shadowrn-ml@*******.hanse.de>" <shadowrn-ml@*******.HANSE.DE> writes
>
>1.) White Phosphorous Damage Code:
>Giving White Phosphorous a damage level of "L" is pretty
>stupid. A person who gets burned would have third grade burns
>within fractions of a second and there is no way he could be saved
>today (although there might be one in the future...but only with
>MASSIVE treatment within really short time) and he would be so totally
>shocked from the first moment that he sure as hell would not think
>clear enough how to get rid of it... WP is something REALLY
>nasty.
It's nasty, but far from being utterly and totally fatal. WP casualties
survive quite nicely today.
Remember, it's not just you: you have team-mates to help you and they,
too, can administer treatment,
> Against Vehicles it is pretty damn effective, as well. If they
>aren't totally sealed they will suck in the flames and simply cook
>their passengers...
They'll only suck the flame into the engine compartment, if that. WP
isn't effective against any military vehicle tougher than a truck (even
Land Rovers can shrug it off)
>so increasing the damage level to "S" (at least)
>would be a good idea.
Disagree. The burning damage is more realistic. Remember, unless you're
carrying the grenade when it explodes, you're only being hit by a few
pieces, not coated head-to-toe.
--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:17:46 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: WoTC on TV (was: Re: WOTC/FASA)
Comments: To: swordman@******.net
In a message dated 97-07-18 04:05:21 EDT, swordman@******.net (Swordman)
writes:
>
> But did you keep and eye on MTV?
> I coaught the last clip of a Magic tornament. They guy who one looked
> like this seruously ripped dude babes all over him like he was Adonis or
> something, then I find out he's one of the finalists in this Magic
> Tournament, sponsered by MTV.
> The world just got a little darker.
>
>
Normally, I wouldn't even give Magic any sort of notification, but to this
one response, I can say.
DUH!!!
MtG has been building in popularity and economic (if such a thing is
possible) power for some time now. The only thing about that game that I had
to respond to most of the players here at one time was ....
"Gee, now that I know whom the real powergamers/munchkins are."
I am not saying that everything about MtG is bad, but it did help a lot of
people look at things differently.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:21:30 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Totems
In a message dated 97-07-18 04:47:59 EDT, cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU (Chris
Maxfield) writes:
>
> Seriously though. Have the members of this list concluded that the totems
> are real - objectively and substantively real? This seems a bit too
AD&Dish
> for me.
>
> Chris
>
> _
Good question (wow big Lightning here now), I know that the big spirit in
Nosferatu was what actually did the cyber-removal to the troll, but the troll
perceived it as Bear moving into him deeper.
I also know however that if the Essence/Magic were somehow restored (have
rules in the game, give the karma, we'll talk) then yeah sure, "Bear" would
gladly move into his/her Shaman quickly and more deeply (Den Instinct).
But, to query up an ED term. What about the Passions and the Loa? Those two
sets of beings are most notably -not- mental constructs in the normal sense
as Spells, Watchers and perhaps Ally beings.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:25:17 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
In a message dated 97-07-18 05:03:10 EDT, chaos@*****.COM (Bull) writes:
>
> I hate you all!
(Ramirez) "Good, that's a perfect way to start."
> I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
> Argh!!!!!!!!!!
I know this Sasquoi come Bandersnatch that has the number for a -VERY- good
salon and hair stylist...
> :]
> Bull
And Look, the Smile is showing through even better...
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:26:23 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: I guess it had to happen sometime;
In a message dated 97-07-18 05:06:02 EDT, wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU (William
Monroe Ashe) writes:
>
> I don't know if I just don't watch enough tv or what, but I saw an add
> for "Magic The Gathering" on the sci-fi channel. If WotC is going to buy
> FASA, they better stop advertising and save their money. I assume that
> WotC does the card game. I don't play myself. I don't have the money to
> indulge a Shadowrun addiction and a Magic addiciton. Some of my freinds
> that are really into magic have sunk hundreds of $$ into that game. If
> had sunk that much I would have an almost complete library.
>
Ya know, looking to my left and the complete SR library Mike and I have
accumulated, and then adding it all, we've sunk more than a couple of hundred
into things.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:30:35 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Zero-G Combat
In a message dated 97-07-18 05:18:13 EDT, schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU (Court
Schuett) writes:
This used to be Demon Magic and all, but I removed the sensitive stuff and
the spoiler blocks for quicker reading.
> The only problem with these, at least Ambi, off-hand, is that they take
> incredible (and I think mostly rightfully so) penalties to attack, making
> it almost impossible to hit. BTW, what is Zero-G fighting? Must have
> missed that. Is that in the Missions adventures? Is that any good?
I apologize, as Zero-G and Blind Fighting (the skill) are stuff that have
been developed here in response by the characters wanting to function better
in every situation they've been thrown through/in/across (and such good
skipping stones they make). We've argued that general mayhem in zero-g
requires modifiers as the physical laws a bit different (what with gravity
missing and all), so I applied a blanket +4 modifier to things. The Zero-G
Operations skill, uses the same karma cost as Ambidexterity, and defeats the
modifier.
Multi-G is something they are just barely getting into (crashing from orbit
while fighting the Elven Assassin did take some getting used to).
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:32:00 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Define "munchkin"
In a message dated 97-07-18 05:38:10 EDT, benjamin@*****.COM (Benjamin)
writes:
>
> I played a weretiger physad once. I still have the character somwhere.
>
>
Tiger's are good, Tiger's are cool...Shivowtnoeh was a Tiger Mage way back
when and the first character (he died lots of different ways).
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:33:52 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
In a message dated 97-07-18 05:59:47 EDT, dbuehrer@****.ORG (David Buehrer)
writes:
>
> Please keep in mind that the effectiveness of a PAC varies from game
> to game, and even from adventure to adventure. If you're playing in
> a high combat game involving high intensity conflicts a PAC might be
> what the character "needs" to survive. In you're game that isn't the
> case, but I just wanted to point out that the definition of
> Powergaming varies.
>
>
I have to agree. Recently the characters here went after Ubyr on the
Illinois. Sure it helped, but they couldn't stand it when the gun's shots
got a -bit- too close to their fighting. The troll with it (a phys ad, his
sword is his preferred weapon) didn't pay attention and nailed a friend.
Actually, he nailed himself too. Gotta love the AP variation shells.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:40:23 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Hobbit's Long Path (was Dark Conspiracy)
In a message dated 97-07-18 08:02:23 EDT, bluewizard@*****.COM (Steven A.
Tinner) writes:
>
> After all, then you'll understand why no one wants to see Imoortal Elves
in
> SR! ;-)
>
>
Here! Here! Give me the superaging, hypergrowth hormone and a few doses of
Laes in a solution. We'll fix those nutty IE's yet...
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:45:40 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
In a message dated 97-07-18 08:22:29 EDT, topcat@***.NET (TopCat) writes:
>
> What would you do if you saw a guy regularly walking down the street with
a
> shotgun in his hands? What would the police do? What would local gangers
> and criminal orgs do? Now change that shotgun to whatever weapon you want
> and then tell me what you want to buy...
>
>
Actually, one of my more striking early memories of Phoenix Arizona was of a
guy on a motorcycle (probably a Harley, who knows) riding along the road -in-
the city limits, he had a Shotgun (BIG THING), a Katana (No, I'm not kidding)
and what could have been a "heavy pistol". It didn't seem to stop him, and
the police officer was driving two cars behind him. Talk about a change in
society.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 00:16:18 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
In-Reply-To: <33CDCEEF.47EEC307@*********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <33CDCEEF.47EEC307@*********.com>, Caun Haskins
<caun@*********.COM> rambled on endlessly about Dark Conspiracy (Was -
Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
>I'll admit I never played DC (or for that matter a lot of other RPGs on
>the market) but I do play SR and was just wondering.
>Cyberpunk defiantly had it's influence on SR but where is Tolken and
>AD&D in it? (I played the comp. game of tolken's, never got around to
>the flesh version.) could you straighten me out? Thanks
>
Ok, this is a joke right?
Erm. well, in case it isn't.
Elves, immortal elves, dragons, ancient civilisations, more immortal
elves, strange critters, orks, dwarves, trolls, more strange critters,
more immortal elves. Immortal elves with incredibly ludicrous abilities.
Glorification of immortal elves in self sacrifice for worldly good and
other such doodoo. :)
<Wanders off to barf after mentioning IE too many times>
PS, if you haven't read Lord of the Rings, make an effort to do so, it
is considered the classic Fantasy novel series, and has had more than a
little influence on the fantasy genre.
>Caun :}
--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:49:39 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Design [Here it comes, TopCat!]
In a message dated 97-07-18 10:11:52 EDT, Victor-Fisher@******.COM writes:
>
> Kohl, who HATES to be antagonized before he's had his morning cup of
> tea!
>
>
Geesh, I hope you feel better now Kohl. By the way, where are you so I know
where -NOt- to be at any particular moment? ;)
-Keith (and my temper just destroys trees, wow)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:57:27 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Totems
In a message dated 97-07-18 10:51:56 EDT, wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU writes:
>
> Anyway my point is (I really do have one). I think that there are a lot
> of cool rolepaying oppurtunities if you allow the totems to be real
> independent entities. Note; nowhere does it say the totems have any real
> power in the material world.
I wouldn't want to have to be the one telling that to Spider.
> Imagine Raccoon wanting his shaman to organize a shadowrun just to tweak
> Cat's nose.
(Pondering) Now that could be a fun game...
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 00:03:52 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: TopCat love him with money or he'll hate you with hammers
In-Reply-To: <9707182203.AA12902@****.bcl.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In message <9707182203.AA12902@****.bcl.net>, Mike Nelson
<kuthuga@***.NET> writes
>
>3) Is TC the antichrist come to rage war on Brits and Liberal types?
>
>a: Yes, but buy him a drink and he softens up.
Buy a bigot a drink, and you've got a drunken bigot. Not wise.
Bob has his opinions, to which he is welcome, and which are often
sensible and well-presented. His problem is an apparently-hardwired
inability to comprehend a fundamental truth; that "different opinion" !=
"totally wrong". Add to that his preference for personal attack over
rational debate, and I can't see alcohol as offering any room for
improvement whatsoever.
Take his enthusiastic assertion, based on experience, that "most of the
military is unprofessional". I've got six years' experience to the
contrary concerning the British Army, and nine years of making toys for
the RAF and RN, that tells me this is incorrect - at least as far as HM
Forces are concerned. I've also got experience of training with the US
military that confirms Bob's opinions _of them_.
But there are other armed forces than the US military, strange though
this often seems to our colonial cousins.
There are more ways to play than the TopCat campaign: and what grates is
the constant assumption that he - and only he - knows the One True Way.
If he genuinely lightens up after a few drinks then I'm buying: but
somehow I doubt it.
--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:00:43 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Design [Here it comes, TopCat!]
In a message dated 97-07-18 11:00:35 EDT, mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM
writes:
<An interesting occurence being mentioned was snipped>
>
> Perhaps you guys should stop arguing the same side?
>
Nope, what they need to do is pay attention to their own words. Or perhaps a
Linguasoft in "Jumbledeeze" would help.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:05:40 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Demon Magic - Spoilers for anyone in a ENEMY type game!
Comments: To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
In a message dated 97-07-18 13:00:34 EDT, M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk (Mark
Steedman) writes:
> spoilers
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> If required you could reduce the interaction delay from 10 for the ED
> stuff with lots of attacks per round, PC's can get a maximum 2
> actions in ED (except for claw frenzy which is just obscene) while
> big horrors can get up to 5 physical + 5 spellcasting actions (though
> about 6 total is more reasonable).
> I did the one time i used a big (ish) horror, a physical action every
> 10, spellcasting actions 5 initiatives later, well had in not been
> shot by an LMG, Vindicactor loading APDS and an ATGM in rappid
> succession (yes the showdown was fixed so the PC's stood a chance, SR
> magicians vs Horrors is a joke)
> Mark
Yeah, well you want some really big fun. Give me a Great Form 6 being with
Sorcery and I'll show you how to do some dancing. 2 spells and 4 targets
attacked in a single action series. No problems, No drain, and all by the
rules.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:09:56 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [Admin] Long Range Game Design
In a message dated 97-07-18 13:58:14 EDT, topcat@***.NET writes:
>
> By the way, you ever follow through with the threat to unsubscribe anyone
> who continued the "Runner's Attitudes" thread in a threatening manner? If
> you did, you would've unsubscribed David Thompson for his post. I've got
a
> copy of it and would, at the least, like to know that he got reprimanded
for
> posting it. If nothing has been done, I'd like to know why?
Oooh, good question. Not to spark a fight or anything, but I seem to recall
that conversation myself. Whatever did become of that mess?
> Also, please direct such posts privately in the future as proper
netiquette
> demands. Makes things so much happier for all of us and keeps me from
> getting irate and the poster from looking hypocritical...
TC's right, I sort of have to admit, though I don't want to be caught doing
it (handing out 5 karma to anyone for a bribe!!! ;). However, Bob's post
could have been done in private as well, as a token of good faith (or that
part of the Philosophy thing?)
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:19:53 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: A WildCat, a Navy SEAL, and a Tir mage go into a bar...
In a message dated 97-07-18 14:52:30 EDT, Victor-Fisher@******.COM (Fisher,
Victor) writes:
<<< !!! Warning Fire-fighting Samurai have Entered the Building !!!
>>>
> (and yes, anyone can
> come up with some BS story that'll link 'em, but BS by anyother name
> still stinks.'
A geez, here it comes...
> To which Kohl replys:
> First off, TopCat, The SEALS work for the UCAS, NOT CAS! Second, as
> anyone whose actually been in the military can tell you, the prime
> reason for these two disparate peoples for working together comes down
> to one word...PROFESSIONALISM!
Excuse me, pardon me, first interupt. Game World Gentleman, both nations
have variations on the theme...
> A spec forces commando, if the objectives or opposition were the
> same, these two people would MUCH rather work together than with a bunch
> of disorganized, improperly (if at all) trained, UNPROFESSIONAL
> Shadowrunners [Yes, I know that there are many Sr groups that don't fit
> this mold, but the military mentality, even a really loose one like
> mine, tends to gravitate towards order of regimentation, as opposed to
> the chaotic decisionmaking evidenced by your typical 'amateur' Shadowrun
> team.].
Hey, working on the fly is required in many, if not most, decision made
plans. Be careful of the word amateur. Mice or Man, does it matter what the
game plan dives?
> If the Tir mage is also a former spook, works just as well. Not all
> spec forces teams love and share a 'warm, fuzzy feeling' for each other,
> BUT most are professional enough to work together to get the job done.
> And who knows, after working with their opposite numbers for awhile,
> they may just develop a grudging respect for one another. This would go
> a long way to laying down more lasting links between the trio, than to
> simply lump them all together as types that should get along and say,
> you're a team.
> Military, and spec forces in particular, are trained in a certain
> discipline that most amateur shadowrunners have no wish to emulate.
> [Look at Argent from Nigel Findley's books. He ran a team of
> Shadowrunners that was almost totally composed of ex-military, and they
> functioned like a well oiled machine. I'd say more, but then I'd need
> spoilers :-].
No, actually you wouldn't. Argent and his team, especially Peg (the decker?)
have a structure that most real game groups can't hope to emulate. It's
called total author override or GM Control Mode. A single GM can create an
awesomely well oiled machine, but a group of nutty cased runners by players
(be they any level of power or munchkinism) can destroy the machinations of
all.
> You seem to think that anyone who can come up with a interesting
> and CONVINCING storyline, OTHER than you, why these three should hang
> together is full of BS! Now, if THAT isn't full of hubris, and a good
> helping Mad Cow Kaka, I don't know what is! As a GM, you're supposed to
> HELP the players find a reason to stick together. It's hard, and it
> doesn't always work out, but that doesn't mean you aren't supposed to
> try. And don't give me the reason that you don't have the time. I'm
> pretty sure I'm a GOOD deal older than you are, and if anyone doesn't
> have time to waste on foolishness, it's me.
Okay, just what are the roles of the GM then? Guy, it must be me, because of
the last 4 major subjects that -I- have brought up, the two of you have jibed
or worse at each other.
> Only a civilian would make an assumption like that these three
> would have no reason to stick together as BS! [And NO, I'm NOT bashing
> civilians; I'm one right now, and enjoy it quite fine, thank you!] I
> suggest you take a look at the Shadowrun Military Page, and talk to a
> few of those guys over there, so's you get a better idea what you're
> meandering about.
On that topic, could I and the rest of the mail group have that address?
> Or, maybe I'm totally wrong, and they'll vindicate you. Who
> knows...
>
Vindication is sign of the totally out of control. Jurisdiction is the
boundary of the Legally Vindicated.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:58:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
In-Reply-To: <199707172051.PAA02084@*******.fgi.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In message <199707172051.PAA02084@*******.fgi.net>, TopCat
>Sounds good to me and it's essentially what I do as well. I told my players
>to think about this...
>
>What would you do if you saw a guy regularly walking down the street with a
>shotgun in his hands? What would the police do? What would local gangers
>and criminal orgs do? Now change that shotgun to whatever weapon you want
>and then tell me what you want to buy...
Sometimes still the big guns. But any weapon whose Concealability can't
be put up to 6 or higher is a rare sighting in a city (amazing how
popular concealable holsters and long coats become. Summer's a bitch,
though...)
If your campaign takes you into Southern Africa or some other area,
which in our game is decidedly lively, then assault rifles, MMGs, and
other infantry weapons are common... because _everyone_ (everyone likely
to be a threat, anyway) has them anyway, and it would be odd if you
_weren't_ carrying them.
Let them be seen in a UCAS city, though, and you're talking emergency
callouts of SWAT teams...
--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:24:11 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Attitude is Everything :)
In a message dated 97-07-18 15:19:28 EDT, mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM
writes:
> >When I read Mr.
> >Broadwater's posts I see a stern, intelligent man with a glint of
> >stuborness in his eyes. Again, it may not be true but that's what
> >his writing style is like.
>
> Hey, I can live with that. And what's with this Mr. stuff? I'm only 21.
:)
>
I'm not sure. I've been called Sir by people everywhere and get special
service when I dine out now. Damn, only 28 and going to far (though my lover
got really peeved when the waitress liked me more...)
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:27:10 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
In a message dated 97-07-18 18:34:11 EDT, Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK writes:
>
>
> Fascinating, in five years of playing Shadowrun, none of my players have
> had characters, even the long term ones, anywhere near this Karma total.
> Boy am I going to lynched if they find out. :)
>
>
(Pondering) That ain't wrong, but the lynching horns can be bought by a fixer
for a reasonable price. It's in Karma though, so you're players are probably
safe... +)
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 01:30:23 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Attitude is Everything :)
In-Reply-To: <970718202233_848849047@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In message <970718202233_848849047@*******.mail.aol.com>, "J. Keith
Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM> writes
>I'm not sure. I've been called Sir by people everywhere
I've been called "Sir" by a Regimental Sergeant Major.
A RSM has a way of saying "Sir" that makes it the foullest insult
imaginable.
After two or three of them, you would rather the Earth opened up and
swallowed you than that he called you 'sir' again in that tone...
It's a skill that, apparently, cannot be taught.
--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:04:31 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "David R. Lowe" <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: I guess it had to happen sometime;
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 7:26 PM 7/18/97, J. Keith Henry wrote:
>In a message dated 97-07-18 05:06:02 EDT, wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU (William
>Monroe Ashe) writes:
>
>Ya know, looking to my left and the complete SR library Mike and I have
>accumulated, and then adding it all, we've sunk more than a couple of hundred
>into things.
Dude, try being into gaming for 18+ years. $Thousands. And my girlfriend
continues to be amazed that I've lugged it all everytime we move.
D.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:27:50 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Design [Here it comes, TopCat!]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="------------FB37FCFE3F88C4FA323FDD00"
--------------FB37FCFE3F88C4FA323FDD00
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<Snip>
> Kohl, who HATES to be antagonized before he's had his morning cup of
> tea!
>
GREAT post, by the way do you have an opening in your SR group, if I'm
even remotly close i'll join immideanly!!!
Thanx
Caun :}
--------------FB37FCFE3F88C4FA323FDD00
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<Snip>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<PRE>Kohl, who HATES to be antagonized before he's had his morning cup of
tea!</PRE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<P> GREAT post, by the way do you have an opening in your SR group,
if I'm even remotly close i'll join immideanly!!!
<BR>Thanx
<P>Caun :}</HTML>
--------------FB37FCFE3F88C4FA323FDD00--
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 22:23:36 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:54 PM 7/18/97 -0700, Caric wrote these timeless words:
>Avenger wrote:
>> Fascinating, in five years of playing Shadowrun, none of my players have
>> had characters, even the long term ones, anywhere near this Karma total.
>> Boy am I going to lynched if they find out. :)
>
>Us either...I think I had the highest total ever with somewhere in the
>neighborhood of 200.
>
Well... Consider this...
We played AT LEAST twice a week for a year, and at least once a week the
second year. Things have been a bit more sparse since then, but I'd have
to say we've played something like over 100 game sessions in the last 4
years with these characters. That averages out to 4 Karma a night, which
sounds right on par...;]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 23:21:23 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: (OT) Re: I guess it had to happen sometime;
In a message dated 97-07-18 22:05:34 EDT, dlowe@****.COM writes:
>
> >Ya know, looking to my left and the complete SR library Mike and I have
> >accumulated, and then adding it all, we've sunk more than a couple of
> hundred
> >into things.
>
>
> Dude, try being into gaming for 18+ years. $Thousands. And my girlfriend
> continues to be amazed that I've lugged it all everytime we move.
>
> D.
>
Already done that guy, try 15 years and several game types (which I'm certain
you have actually), 14 gamer roommates, 4-5 computers with over 100 diskettes
that I can remember. Yeah, I think we have something in common guy.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 23:26:32 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Karmic Rep (was : Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!!
In a message dated 97-07-18 22:28:18 EDT, chaos@*****.COM writes:
> >
> Well... Consider this...
>
> We played AT LEAST twice a week for a year, and at least once a week the
> second year. Things have been a bit more sparse since then, but I'd have
> to say we've played something like over 100 game sessions in the last 4
> years with these characters. That averages out to 4 Karma a night, which
> sounds right on par...;]
>
> Bull
>
(Pondering) Let me see, twice a week for one year, the most recent, 1-2
nights a week on smaller, off the wall games with smaller groups, average
game session nets perhaps 3-4 points that year.
Year before, actually 3 years before, puts game sessions at 4 times a week
solid, with 6-9 hour sessions (college is good for something ;), that for
several years actually.
I lose count.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 00:02:44 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jak Koke <jkoke@******.UOREGON.EDU>
Subject: Stranger Souls is #1
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Just thought I'd mention that Stranger Souls made the number one slot on the
LOCUS magazine bestseller list for June (in the Game-related fiction
category). This was it's first month in stores so I'm pretty friggin stoked.
My personal thanks to those of you on the list who've bought a copy. Also I
am greatly appreciative to those who've sent me email responses.
Ciao,
--Jak
Jak Koke La Jolla, CA
----------------------------------------------------------
I have a new (temporary) web page at:
http://ursula.uoregon.edu/~jkoke
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 00:30:52 -0700
Reply-To: hernandez@********.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: hernandez <hernandez@********.COM>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<SNIP>
> Actually, one of my more striking early memories of Phoenix Arizona was
of a
> guy on a motorcycle (probably a Harley, who knows) riding along the road
-in-
> the city limits, he had a Shotgun (BIG THING), a Katana (No, I'm not
kidding)
> and what could have been a "heavy pistol". It didn't seem to stop him,
and
> the police officer was driving two cars behind him. Talk about a change
in
> society.
> -Keith
Arizona is an "open" carry state. So long as the weapon is in plain view,
no license is needed to carry it.
MoonShadow
In the begining Man created God;
and in the image of Man created he him
hernandez@********.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 11:58:48 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: [OT] GW prices (was Re: FASA Being Sold?)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970718165215.2c976666@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Bull said on 17:16/18 Jul 97...
> But you're right, the plastics cost almost as much as the metal mini's
> anymore, and that's just ridiculous...
Not to defend GW's prices or anything, but there are a few a fundamentals
you need to keep in mind when comparing prices between metal and plastic
figures: plastic figures require expensive steel molds that last a
lifetime but are only cheap if you use them lots of times; metal require
not-so-expensive silicon rubber molds that'll only last maybe 25-50
good quality castings IIRC, and then you'll need to make a new mold. If
you need to make a small series, metal castings are cheaper than injection
molded plastic; for large series it's the other way around.
With the volume GW produces, plastic should probably be cheaper than
metal, but as I understand it (I don't play GW games, BTW) they base their
prices on the points values of the units, which IMnsHO is just plain
ripping off the customers, and doesn't really have anything to do with
production costs.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 11:58:48 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: A WildCat, a Navy SEAL, and a Tir mage go into a bar...
In-Reply-To: <199707181729.MAA12801@*******.fgi.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
TopCat said on 12:29/18 Jul 97...
> Actually, if you read through SR2 (which one would hope you might've) you'd
> know that SEALs could be of either UCAS or CAS. When the US split, military
> forces went to their respective countries based on their own personal
> loyalties. Now if you knew where they train at you'd know that they'd be in
> the CAS if that had anything to do with it
I imagine the UCAS would quickly set up a training facility somewhere
else, if they feel this is a unit worth keeping (which they obviously
did).
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 06:07:51 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: APDS Ammo
Howdy. (This is *not* a cue for the Bull-Bot to Bot me. <looks left, looks
right>) Anyway, I was BSing with one of my players on the ride home from
seeing Contact (Good flick) and wandered into this thought: Most weapons
that fire Saboted ammo today are smoothbore. That being Tank guns and
Shotguns. Then I looked in my handy copy of 3G3 and noted that normal
bullets are 3:1 l:w, while most saboted rounds are 10:1 l:w. IIRC, this is
because long-arm penetrators are unstable if you spin them. (Example: Take
a top and a pencil. Spin them, drop them. Which hits the ground on its
side?)
So I thought about how this applied to Shadowrun. OK, shotguns have no
problem. But what about rifled small-arms? How do they deal with APDS ammo?
I thought of three ways. One, (the easy way) was to make sure that the
sabot did not expand enough to engage the rifling of the barrel. Two,
placing inserts in the rifling of the barrel to change the weapon into a
pseudo-smoothbore. Three, replacing the barrel with a smoothbore barrel.
Four, not letting the PCs have APDS <g>.
For that matter, what happened to shotgun APDS ammo, such as is readily
available (in the US) from mail-order outfits like Blammo ammo? (I'm not
kidding. These guys sell all kinds of whacked out rounds for shotguns, up
to and including Dragons' Breath rounds, which turn the shotgun into a
short-duration flame-thrower. (They also do nasty things to the barrel.))
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 05:28:10 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: The cycles in general
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Ok by what I've read when the down man cycle began (right before the
dark ages?) the meta-races just stopped producing other meta-races and
had human children? or di they turn into humans themselves? then all
the meta-animals changed or did they stop reproducing as well? Then in
2011 they start coming back, why do the ork/trolls morph and dwarf/elfs
born? (this is what the Shadowland director said) Why is there a big
difference between the 4 meta-races?
I guess what I'm asking is for someone to explain the Mana Cycles to
me. I know someone will pick up this thread so thanks for doing it!
ô¿ô
\_/
Caun :}
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 12:01:43 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Attitude is Everything :)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970718141206.0091e2b0@********> from "Michael
Broadwater" at Jul 18, 97 02:12:08 pm
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|
|At 12:52 PM 7/18/97 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:
|>TopCat wrote:
|>|
|>When I read Mr.
|>Broadwater's posts I see a stern, intelligent man with a glint of
|>stuborness in his eyes. Again, it may not be true but that's what
|>his writing style is like.
|
|Hey, I can live with that. And what's with this Mr. stuff? I'm only 21. :)
Where I come from, you change from being a Master to a Mister at 18....
:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 12:08:14 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970718162911.2d873650@*****.com> from "Bull" at
Jul 18,
97 05:16:36 pm
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|Orks... Well... SR is probably the only game I know of where Orks are a
|normal, viable race. AD&D came close with it's half orcs, but... That's
|still not the same... And Orcs in Tolkien were pretty much the same as in
|AD&D: Evil green beasties... They were also called Goblins in Tolkiens
|books...
Not the only one....
Paladium had Orcs as player characters, along with Hobgoblins, goblins,
changelings and Wolfen. 10 years ago.....
And quite a few LRP systems allow almost any race (that isn't unbalancing).
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 12:11:18 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: WotC's Acquisitiveness
In-Reply-To: <970718172910_-1977179908@*******.mail.aol.com> from "M. Sean
Martinez" at Jul 18, 97 05:29:17 pm
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|Besides most mail servers have a "DELETE" button in which you can skip topics
|you do not want to read. I do it all the time, most recently on the thread of
|the Orgasm spell.
And this has to do with????
In order to DELETE a thread, you must first DOWNLOAD IT!
Duh!
Kill this thread, it's pointless.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 12:22:26 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Totems
In-Reply-To: <970718192128_-1977156447@*******.mail.aol.com> from "J. Keith
Henry" at Jul 18, 97 07:21:30 pm
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|But, to query up an ED term. What about the Passions and the Loa? Those two
|sets of beings are most notably -not- mental constructs in the normal sense
|as Spells, Watchers and perhaps Ally beings.
I think you're looking at it in the wrong way.
Magic is based primarily in BELIEF, right?
A mage who doesn't believe in magic, can't cast spells.
(But if he believes in Spiderman, he might aquire a talent for
wallcrawling...)
Now, what about the entire population? What do *THEY* believe in?
The entire population of Barsiave believed in the passions. They passions
probably made their first appearance soon after the arrival of the magic in
the 4th world.
They only existed because they were CREATED from the collective unconcious.
They still, exist because of the few survivors, and the fact that some of
those survivors are starting passion cults.
The Totems also figure strongly in this.
Hell, even Jesus, God, and Satan probably started to exist (VERY POWERFULLY)
due to the billions that believe in them....
[It should be noted that I'm an athiest and firmly believe that man created
god to explain cosmic mysteries]
Now? When d'you reccon the second coming'll be?
:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 07:39:33 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
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Wow, wait a minuit, are you telling me that at one time orks and goblins
were thought of as the same thing!! I always thought of them as totaly
diferent races, they are adn will always be in my head totaly different.
(I can't see the goblins in anybody's books the same as any oof my SR
characters, That would just spoil my day!) Well I gues The Fantasy gener
is still under construction, where will it go next? and we learn
somthing new every day on the ShadowRN discusion group!
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 14:04:46 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
In-Reply-To: <33CF71FE.97A178DF@*********.com> from "Caun Haskins" at Jul
18,
97 07:39:33 am
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|
|Wow, wait a minuit, are you telling me that at one time orks and goblins
|were thought of as the same thing!!
In Tolkein books, yes.
In The Hobbit, they were known as Goblins, because the main character was a
Hobbit. In LotR, they were known as Orcs, because there were a lot of ELVES
around.....
Same race, different name....
I always thought of them as totaly
|diferent races, they are adn will always be in my head totaly different.
Most people see them as different these days/
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 09:30:07 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John Dukes <dukes@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:39 AM 7/18/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Wow, wait a minuit, are you telling me that at one time orks and goblins
>were thought of as the same thing!! I always thought of them as totaly
>diferent races, they are adn will always be in my head totaly different.
>(I can't see the goblins in anybody's books the same as any oof my SR
>characters, That would just spoil my day!) Well I gues The Fantasy gener
>is still under construction, where will it go next? and we learn
>somthing new every day on the ShadowRN discusion group!
>
In Tolkiens "The Hobbit" Bilbo refers to the orcs as goblins throught the
book. In the later ring trilogy they say something to the extent of "Mr.
Bilbo mistakenly called the orcs goblins." I think other RPGs like AD&D
always considered goblins to be smaller but more viciously intelligent
versions of orcs. Orcs are typically portrayed in fantasy gaming as hulking
barbarian brutes, where the weaker goblins often use crazy weapons of mass
destruction to do their evil. Personally I think the goblin grenadiers
flying around in goblin zephalins (I have no idea how to spell zephalin :) )
firing goblin bombs from a goblin catapult are much cooler.
John
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 01:31:01 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Totems
In-Reply-To: <3838.199707191122@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:22 19/07/97 +0100, Spike wrote (while referring to ED passions):
>They only existed because they were CREATED from the collective unconcious.
>They still, exist because of the few survivors, and the fact that some of
>those survivors are starting passion cults.
>
>The Totems also figure strongly in this.
I see from the answers to my question that some list members believe totems
to be real - but real in the sense that Spike describes above.
One of the aspects of Shadowrun that I love the most is the ambiguity and
mystery pervading the game. We never really know what's going on; the
motivations and goals of the Dragons, Megacorps, IE, governments, etc., etc
are open to question - if explained at all. This adds to the feelings of
danger and realism for me. The same goes for magic, particularly totems -
just what are they? This is left largely unexplained in the rules and is
the way I prefer it. [All apparent totem activities can be explained,
usually by a mage, as purely internal to the shaman. Even loa riding can
be explained in terms of some sort of Multiple Personalities disorder. :-) ]
However, by the way this list has been describing the activities of the
totems (eg a totem choosing its shaman rather than the other way round) I
had the impression that people seemed to have accepted the idea that totems
were fully independent of shamans. (Powerful entities residing in the
metaplanes and meddling in the affairs of mortals type stuff.) I was not
comfortable with this and so I asked the question about whether list
members believed totems to be real.
The replies show that other people also like to leave totems undefined.
Perhaps totems are the metaplanar incarnation of the Jungian archetypes
from the collective sub/unconscious. Or maybe not. Perhaps they are the
magical embodiment of shamanic belief. Or maybe not. Perhaps they are
powerful free spirits. Or maybe not. Or perhaps they only exist in the
shaman's mind as an alternate personality (any bi-cameral mind enthusiasts
out there?). Or maybe not. The one explanation that I cannot except is that
they are Powers That Have Existed Since Before The Dawn Of Time. They damn
well don't exist now in 1997 and so a good explanation is needed for where
they came from by 2058.
But my hermetic mage still thinks a totem only exists in the shaman's own
imagination. ;-)
Chris
_______________________________________________________________
Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 11:13:37 -0400
Reply-To: shergold@***********.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Shergold <shergold@***********.NET>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
MIME-Version: 1.0
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<snipped interesting stuff 'bout APDS>
> Four, not letting the PCs have APDS <g>.
Then why with that run with Sgt. Slaughter that part of our payment
included the Barett ? 8*) Of course it ended up as a decoration on my
characters wall. (Makes an interesting conversation piece.<EG>
SilverFire
"I merely chewed in self-defense."
-Draco the Dragon
"Dragonheart"
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 11:47:43 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
In a message dated 97-07-19 06:54:52 EDT, harlequin@*********.CA (Michel
Racicot) writes:
>
>
> ARRRRGHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhh!!!
>
> A wendigo decker!!! RUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!
>
>
And just remember, all you need is emotional connectivity to drain...a good
neural link, some psychotropic IC, and behold... (okay, just kidding- maybe)
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 11:58:16 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Totems
In a message dated 97-07-19 07:23:50 EDT, u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK (Spike)
writes:
>
> |But, to query up an ED term. What about the Passions and the Loa? Those
> two
> |sets of beings are most notably -not- mental constructs in the normal
sense
> |as Spells, Watchers and perhaps Ally beings.
>
> I think you're looking at it in the wrong way.
Maybe, but I don't think so. I am trying to look at it entirely differently
than the common thread. That doesn't make it wrong, it makes it different.
> Magic is based primarily in BELIEF, right?
The -usage- of magic maybe, but I don't think the power itself. If that were
true, then the Awakening would likely not have occurred. Reason being is
that I find it hard to believe that the entire world's belief in "the
unknown" had reached such a point as all that and it simply came into
existence. And if you could ask the IE's, you'd have to add the word "AGAIN"
to that sentence.
> A mage who doesn't believe in magic, can't cast spells.
> (But if he believes in Spiderman, he might aquire a talent for
> wallcrawling...)
This is the difference in philosophy and symbology if I recall correctly.
And the Grimoire and Awakenings books have stuff on the "mage who doesn't
believe in magic" theories.
> Now, what about the entire population? What do *THEY* believe in?
Collective Consciousness is a design flaw... (-wink-)
> The entire population of Barsiave believed in the passions. They passions
> probably made their first appearance soon after the arrival of the magic
in
> the 4th world.
I don't really recall that information being given anywhere in ED. Granted,
ED has the Passions, and for the game system, that is fine.
> They only existed because they were CREATED from the collective
unconcious.
> They still, exist because of the few survivors, and the fact that some of
> those survivors are starting passion cults.
Actually, this sounds more like a personal belief than something for game
mechanics. It's that really stupid argument on "my system vs. your system"
thing.
>
> The Totems also figure strongly in this.
I still wouldn't suggest telling Spider that, or a being that a collective
group of "spider shamans" -created-.
>
> Hell, even Jesus, God, and Satan probably started to exist (VERY
POWERFULLY)
> due to the billions that believe in them....
And don't ya just love how big game system/writers just skirt that issue.
Hell, I think Charrette was glorious with S. Verner's "God with God"
statement.
> [It should be noted that I'm an athiest and firmly believe that man
created
> god to explain cosmic mysteries]
>
> Now? When d'you reccon the second coming'll be?
I think it already has, the world just doesn't -BELIEVE- anymore ... we're a
blind race in general with no real ability to remain in touch to our
surroundings. Shadowrun is dealing with the concept of the "unimaginable"
being made tangible, or at least as close to that as the Karmic Winds will
allow.
> :)
(: >
-Keith (had to do that inverted smiley moustache)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 12:04:51 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Totems
In a message dated 97-07-19 11:34:37 EDT, cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU (Chris
Maxfield) writes:
> The one explanation that I cannot except is that
> they are Powers That Have Existed Since Before The Dawn Of Time. They damn
> well don't exist now in 1997 and so a good explanation is needed for where
> they came from by 2058.
>
One could look at it in a different fashion. The mana-bridge that is part of
SR's history allowed for the channelling to be created more readily. The
totems/icons whatever have you, have existed in mythology and earth historic
culture for untold of centuries. Perhaps they still exist, perhaps not?
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 02:14:15 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Stranger Souls is #1
In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19970719070244.0070660c@******.uoregon.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> Just thought I'd mention that Stranger Souls made the number one slot on the
> LOCUS magazine bestseller list for June (in the Game-related fiction
> category). This was it's first month in stores so I'm pretty friggin stoked.
> My personal thanks to those of you on the list who've bought a copy. Also I
> am greatly appreciative to those who've sent me email responses.
Congratulations! <pinning a medal on Jak's chest and handing him a
cigar>
Lady Jestyr
----------------------------------------------------
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota
monax materiam possit materiari?
----------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 12:27:17 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 01:49:32 -0400 Bull <chaos@*****.COM> writes:
>I hate you all!
>
>I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
>
>Argh!!!!!!!!!!
>
>:]
Sorry, but I couldn't help but laugh:) It's a bad habit of mine. In any
case, Bull, look on the bright side: you're still alive! (Okay, if you
want to nit-pick, I guess you're undead:) And you can start taking Magic
lessons now:) And you can get recipes from the Mantids:):):) And there
are worse things, at least the wendigos are sentient (something that
can't be said about all vamps:) Of course, there's the small matter of a
there being a bounty on your head...
Question: if you're turning into a Wendigo, will your smiley and .sig
change to reflect it:)
--
-Canthros (one nice thing about shapeshifters: they don't get HMHVV,
AFAIK:)
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 12:27:17 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (was: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:16:36 -0400 Bull <chaos@*****.COM> writes:
<snip>
>Tolkien based SOME of his stuff on various Mythologies, but some ideas
>were
>his and his alone.
>
>The Elves, for example. before Tolkien, elevs were tiny pixie like
>beings
>with lots of magic. I can't recall a single fable or myth that had
>human
>sized Elevs. Tolkien was the first to make Elves what they're become
>today
>in fantasy fiction adn RPG's. Tall people, usually as part of a
>normal
>"race" of beings with their own govedrnment and such.
I think one of our former list members (I hate it when I can't remember
people's names:( was right when he said that Tolkien didn't actually
invent the idea of the tall, thin elf:) Tolkien borrowed quite a bit from
Teutonic (Norse) and Briton mythos, and the elf that Tolkien popularized
was probably influenced a great deal by the elf of Teutonic myth. I
personally enjoyed Tolkien's books immensely, wasn't bothered in the
least by the presence of the all-powerful elves:) But I like superheroes
and epics anyway:):) 'Sides, the elves didn't actually save the world,
they couldn't. They did, however, start the whole mess...
>Troll's are another example. While SR trolls aren't really much like
>Tolkiens Trolls, They're much closer to tolkaien's than AD&D's. AD&D
>Trolls
>were usually mostly mindless, tall skinny regenerating things.
>Tolkiens
>were Huge 10 foot tall beasties with minimal intelligence. However,
>they
>DID turn to stone in daylight, so...
I don't know. I don't know diddly about **&* (and it's probably safer
that way:), but SR's trolls really aren't too much like the trolls in
JRR's books (well, they're nothing much like the one's in the Hobbit,
anyway). I suppose they do kinda match the ones in the LotR...
>Orks... Well... SR is probably the only game I know of where Orks
>are a
>normal, viable race. AD&D came close with it's half orcs, but...
>That's
>still not the same... And Orcs in Tolkien were pretty much the same
>as in
>AD&D: Evil green beasties... They were also called Goblins in
>Tolkiens
>books...
AFAIK, Tolkien created the word 'orc', but I'm kinda afraid to really say
that, mainly because he borrowed so much from so many other places, I'd
be very surprised if he truly created them as they were in
Middle-Earth...
>Most of the fantasy aspect of SR comes from tolkien, while the
I think it's more like the fantasy aspect of SR is *heavily* influenced
by Tolkien, but I don't think I would say that it really *comes* from
Tolkien.
>futuristic
>stuff comes partly from Cyberpunk and the whole Cyberpunk Genre. It's
>an
>interesting blend, and makes SR very unique...:]
It's probably the one thing that originally drew me into the game. I
don't know of too many other games that combine both magic and tech
(CthulhuPunk, Rifts, I think, but not too many others:)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 12:27:17 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkins - (Slight Rant)
On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:19:54 +0200 Clen Cook <Clen@******.CO.ZA> writes:
>Let's face it - weren't we all Munchkins in the beginning?
I can't vouch for the entire list, but I'd say most likely:) I was, or a
powergamer at the least:)
>I know I was. Create an AD&D character - something unique
>and guaranteed to hack the other players off - like a Ninja
>or something ridiculous like that. Give him so many abilities,
>weapons and skills that he could conceivably take over the
>world by himself - and GO WILD!
Which is how I wound up with a shapeshifter-mage as my second SR
character:)
>That was fun, for a while. But then I grew up, and started
>role-playing. Most of the people I've played with have gone
>through that "power" phase. But we got over it, and enjoyed
>playing varied characters. Everything from hopeless rejects
>to mighty heroes etc etc . . .
I think I mostly decided that it wasn't worth the constant escalation of
power between myself and six other munchkins, especially since two of the
guys had characters that had to be worth 300-400+ Karma, if they'd been
played in a normal game...had to have a character that powerful to keep
up, then you had to have one a little more poewrful yet, then.... It got
real old.
>Hopefully some of the munchkins out there will either grow up
>themselves, or meet a benevolent GM who knows how to play, and
>they'll be willing to "learn".
I think it's better if they are intro'd to a game by a guy who isn't a
munch and does a good job of not allowing munchkinning in his game. I
know I wouldn't have been a munchy at all if I hadn't been intro'd to SR
by a pair of munchy-powergamer types (not that powergaming is bad:)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 11:04:19 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: [Admin] Bi-weekly Mini-FAQ
Mime-Version: 1.0
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WARNING: Do not delete this email until the new one arrives in two weeks.
You may not need it today, but you may need it sometime before the next one
is posted.
You are all members of the ShadowRN mailing list, some of you dating for
years before me, both age and list-wise. This is the now official
Bi-Weekly Mini-FAQ, which takes the place of posting the large FAQ's very
often. They are of course still available at http://shadowrun.home.ml.org,
or you can email fro@***.ab.ca and request them.
BASIC HELP:
1. To unsubscribe, send a message to listserv@***tproc.itribe.net with a
blank subject and a body of 'unsubscribe ShadowRN Your@*****.address'
2 To get HELP, including the unsubscribe command, send a message to
listserv@***tproc.itribe.net, no subject, body 'HELP'
3. Read the help and the FAQ's before posting to the list or emailing me
asking for help.
POSTING GUIDELINES:
1. When replying to a message, be sure to quote what you are replying too.
1a. Snip the part that you aren't replying too, but don't snip so much it
becomes illegible
1b. Be sure to Correctly identify who said what you are quoting.
Good example:
----
On Friday July 18th Bull Said:
>So, what does everyone think of Target:UCAS?
I wish it was in the stores in Canada!
-Adam
-----
Bad Example:
-----
On suchaday Chez said
On suchaday Lucid said
On suchaday Hayden said
>>>Some text
>>20 lines of unreleated text.
>A few more lines of even more unrelated text.
>>Some stuff from the other poster.
Cool. I'd ground that through a quickening for a dollar!
-Adam
-----
1d. Snip a persons signature file, unless it is vital to the reply.
1e. Do not use Old-Shadowrun style quotes.
Example:
>>>>[Cool]<<<<
--Anonymous (10:44:37/7-19-58)
This confuses the people who are on both ShadowRN and ShadowTK, and looks
ugly, to boot.
2. After writing your email, take ten (No, take 20.) seconds to think
"Should this go to the list, or directly to the person I'm replying too?"
If its indepth and rather specific, it may be better just going to the one
person. This applies in triplicate if its a flame or if its OFF TOPIC.
3. Do not Start a thread that is already OFF TOPIC. [OT]. We get enough
[OT] from topic drift, anyhow.
4. Full logs since the inception of the list are available via anonymous
ftp at listproc.itribe.net, and at http://www.itribe.net/~mark
5. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.
Assistant Fearless Leader
Adam Jury
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
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Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 19:24:12 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paolo Marcucci <paolo@*********.IT>
Subject: [OT] GenCon
Mime-Version: 1.0
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It's been a while from when I read some posts about GenCon. I definitely
will be there on 7th, who else?
GRANITE, you still mantain this list?
--------------------------------------------------------
Nice people going to GenCon:
FASAMike [If there are enough hours in the day]
GRANITE
Mike Broadwater
Bull
Fro (maybe)
Skye (yes... parents approval pending)
The Bookworm
Gossamer
Mike Paff
Caric
Court Schuett
Adam (another one or Fro?)
Nick Van
Droopy
Czar Eggbert
Paolo & Armanda (my gf)
Loki
NightLife
Onyx
Smilin' Ted
The Digital Mage aka Grant Erswell
Steve K.
--------------------------------------------------------
____________________________________________________________
Paolo Marcucci paolo@*********.it
InterWare Service Provider Trieste, Italy
http://www.interware.it/ Tel. +39-40-360630
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 17:15:27 GMT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Shadowrun ML demon <shadowrn-ml@*******.hanse.de>"
<shadowrn-ml@*******.HANSE.DE>
Organization: Nightmare on Coin Street
Subject: Re: [SR3] Things that always annoyed you in SR2....
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"Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK> writes:
> It's nasty, but far from being utterly and totally fatal. WP casualties
> survive quite nicely today.
Uhm - I find this pretty hard to believe, I have to admit. As far as I
know having about 40% of your skin burned to third degree is already
lethal and even hot water can cause third degree burns without any
problems. So something that is sticky and burns a few hundred degrees
(what IS the exact temperature, btw.) is causing third degree burns
within fractions of a second... someone surviving being splashed with
that stuff (without any special equipment, of course). Maybe if you
only got a few drops... but whatever has been hit got a third degree
burn, so if more than 40% of the body has been hit you are dead.
> Remember, it's not just you: you have team-mates to help you and they,
> too, can administer treatment,
Yeah - but there is hardly anything you can do once a certain amount
of skin has been burned... at least not nowadays. I could imagine,
though, that in the future you'd have tanks with some special liquid
that could take over the functions of the skin until the body had a
chance to regenerate.
> > Against Vehicles it is pretty damn effective, as well. If they
> >aren't totally sealed they will suck in the flames and simply cook
> >their passengers...
> They'll only suck the flame into the engine compartment, if that. WP
> isn't effective against any military vehicle tougher than a truck (even
> Land Rovers can shrug it off)
Uhm. So what happens to the electronics and the rubber & plastic parts
of the engine when they get exposed to flames that burn at several
hundret degrees... my experience is that plastic, rubber and
electronics don't really like this.
> >so increasing the damage level to "S" (at least)
> >would be a good idea.
> Disagree. The burning damage is more realistic. Remember, unless you're
> carrying the grenade when it explodes, you're only being hit by a few
> pieces, not coated head-to-toe.
O.k. - first: We are not talking about the explosion damage, right ?
The grenade affects an area of 10 meters diameter (considering a loss
of power niveau of 1/.5m - I wasn't able to find any other statement
about the area covered by a WP grenade) and things in the center most
probably get pretty much splashed... otherwise the reach wouldn't be
as far.
So I can imagine that people/objects outside the core of the explosion
have a good chance of survival (although they probably get seriously
hurt), but in the core of the explosion ? I don't think so. A damage
code of "L" for burning white phosphorus on your skin is far too
low. Of course you can always have luck and roll down the damage, you
could try to extinguish it, your teammates could help you and so on, but
survival should be the result of these factors and not being granted
by the weapon itself...
Of course I know that you have more knowledge about weapons than I do,
but if you say people "survive easily" through an attack by white
phosphorus I'd like to know more about the factors that led to his
survival.
Later,
Georg
- --
Georg C. F. Greve <greve@*******.hanse.de>
http://porter.desy.de/~greve/
"People who fight may lose. People who do not
fight have already lost." -- Bertold Brecht
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Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 20:26:03 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
In-Reply-To: <01BC940A.17C68040@********.u96.stevens-tech.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Jonathan Hurley said on 6:07/19 Jul 97...
> Howdy. (This is *not* a cue for the Bull-Bot to Bot me. <looks left, looks
> right>) Anyway, I was BSing with one of my players on the ride home from
> seeing Contact (Good flick) and wandered into this thought: Most weapons
> that fire Saboted ammo today are smoothbore.
Actually, no. APDS rounds have been used since late WWII, and most guns
firing them have rifled bores -- the L7 (M68 to Americans) 105 mm tank
gun, for example. APFSDS rounds are generally fired from smoothbore
weapons like the Rh-120 (M256), but they have the FS (Fin Stabilized) bit
_because_ the weapon is smoothbore. APDS rounds spin like other rounds
fired from rifles gun, and they need it for stability. However, APFSDS
projectiles are generally longer than APDS projectiles, yes.
> So I thought about how this applied to Shadowrun. OK, shotguns have no
> problem. But what about rifled small-arms? How do they deal with APDS ammo?
> I thought of three ways. One, (the easy way) was to make sure that the
> sabot did not expand enough to engage the rifling of the barrel. Two,
> placing inserts in the rifling of the barrel to change the weapon into a
> pseudo-smoothbore. Three, replacing the barrel with a smoothbore barrel.
> Four, not letting the PCs have APDS <g>.
IMHO there is no need to go to all this trouble for firing APDS rounds
from rifled barrels, because the round _needs_ to be spun. The problem is
the other way around, if you ask me: shotguns must somehow spin the APDS
round for it to work properly. Still, since today rifled slugs exist for
shotguns, it shouldn't be too hard to apply the same tech to the sabots of
an APDS round.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 20:57:31 +0000
Reply-To: trrkt@******.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: SPELL: Totemform
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Hmmm...
This is a spell I devised (under the watchful eye of my GM) for
shamanic initiates...
Shadow of the (Totem animal), i.e. Shadow of the Coyote, Shadow of
the Rat...
This spell can be cast only by shamanic initiates.
Drain: (F/2+1)S
Target number: 6
Duration: Sustained (the modifier for sustaining the spell is only +1
instead of +2)
Range: Personal only
Effect: The spell works like the (Critter) Form spell from the
Grimoire, allowing the caster to morph into one, predetermined animal
(namely - your Totem animal). It's effects are similar to the
Shapechange spell (shaman can cast spells in animal form, use
critter's physical attributes plus one-half the casting successes and
caster's mental attributes, the clothing and equipment does not
change with the caster), but the modifier for sustaining the spell is
only +1 instead of +2. Also, it allows the caster to mask the aura as
an aura of the totem animal. It works as the initiate masking, but
with one/half of the initiate's grade (round up).
Mike (Leszek Karlik) and J23TOM (Tomasz Kubacki) (TM, C and patent
pending)
All comments are welcome... Flames and mailbombs should be sent to my
GM at god@******.gov...
Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} GRD(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
Scrabble players can lay seven at one go.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 22:13:01 +0000
Reply-To: trrkt@******.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Re: SPELL: Totemform
In-Reply-To: <33D03F0B.3FBC@**.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hmmm...
> > Hmmm...
>
> > This is a spell I devised (under the watchful eye of my GM) for
> > shamanic initiates...
>
> > Shadow of the (Totem animal), i.e. Shadow of the Coyote, Shadow of
> > the Rat...
>
> > This spell can be cast only by shamanic initiates.
>
> I really don't see why.
Because it masks the aura. It is rather useful this way, and I think
that since masking is only available to initiates...
> > Drain: (F/2+1)S
>
> ...As opposed to Shapechange's (f/2)+2S or the more obvious comparison,
> (Critter) Form, with a Drain of (f/2)+2M. Given that this is a personal
> spell, the drain should be even lower.
Yes, but:
a) I had no grimoire with me
b) it has a Very Complex effect of masking the aura (as an ANIMAL, so
it changes the form of aura - rather difficult...)
> > Target number: 6
>
> I'd prefer to use the target's Willpower as a target number (possibly
> reduced by Initiate rating?)
Yes, but my GM felt it should be rather difficult...
> > Duration: Sustained (the modifier for sustaining the spell is only +1
> > instead of +2)
>
> Not sure why that bonus is given. With the 'Focused Concentration'
> Edge, does the modifier drop to zero?
Ummm... I don't have the SR Companion... And I gave this bonus
because the TOTEM grants the shaman some of the power to sustain him.
(Also, the GM thought it would be a nice bonus).
> > Range: Personal only
> > Effect: The spell works like the (Critter) Form spell from the
> > Grimoire, allowing the caster to morph into one, predetermined animal
> > (namely - your Totem animal). It's effects are similar to the
> > Shapechange spell (shaman can cast spells in animal form, use
> > critter's physical attributes plus one-half the casting successes and
> > caster's mental attributes, the clothing and equipment does not
> > change with the caster), but the modifier for sustaining the spell is
> > only +1 instead of +2. Also, it allows the caster to mask the aura as
> > an aura of the totem animal. It works as the initiate masking, but
> > with one/half of the initiate's grade (round up).
>
> That's not a terribly powerful spell, given that it's a Damage Code
> higher than (Critter) form. An Initiate should be able to mask his/her
> form anyway, regardless of which form he or she appears in.
Yes, but masking allows only to appear as a mundane human. An animal
with a human aura in astral space is a pretty obvious give-away,
isn't it? Now, think of the possibilities for the Rat shaman (you can
spell-cast in the animal form, after all...).
> Incidentally, I've often used Shapchanges into Totem form as an
> initiation ordeal for shamen....
Hmmm... Nice idea...
Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} GRD(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
If God exists that's his problem.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 22:27:52 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gunnerhansen@***.nethotel.dk>
From: Khayman <gunnerhansen@********.DK>
Subject: Re: Munchkins - (Slight Rant)
In-Reply-To: <19970719.122630.17063.5.lobo1@****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
On 19 Jul 97 at 12:27, John E Pederson wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:19:54 +0200 Clen Cook <Clen@******.CO.ZA> writes:
> >Let's face it - weren't we all Munchkins in the beginning?
Hmmm, past experiences tell me that people who have never read or
heard anything about the roleplaying world, be it scifi or D&D, will
be most likely to build a character with the sole purpose of being
the best & strongest.
<SNIP>
> I think I mostly decided that it wasn't worth the constant escalation of
> power between myself and six other munchkins, especially since two of the
> guys had characters that had to be worth 300-400+ Karma, if they'd been
> played in a normal game...had to have a character that powerful to keep
> up, then you had to have one a little more poewrful yet, then.... It got
> real old.
>
Just a question for you guys: 300-400 KP !?! How many KP do award in
each game? how many games have you played?
>
> I think it's better if they are intro'd to a game by a guy who isn't a
> munch and does a good job of not allowing munchkinning in his game. I
> know I wouldn't have been a munchy at all if I hadn't been intro'd to SR
> by a pair of munchy-powergamer types (not that powergaming is bad:)
>
Right! Some discipline and strict teaching! That'll do the job : )
Khayman
Mikkel Hansen, Denmark, Maribo 4930 EMail: gunnerhansen@********.dk
Homepage: http://cybercom.dk/remote/mikkel/greenman.htm
"Alas, ice surround me, my hand burns itself on the icyness!
Alas, thirst is in me, it craves after your thirst." -Nietzsche (my trsl.)
________________________________________________________________________
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Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 19:31:36 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970718014901.26dfecfc@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 18-Jul-97 wrote Bull:
>I hate you all!
>I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
>Argh!!!!!!!!!!
>:]
Hey its not my fault. You are better of with the wendigo thing
opposed to some other ideas mine inclusive.
And if its true you got some LONG time goal to get rid of the HMHVV
you can become a figure of legend by finding a cure.
So good luck to you.
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 19:33:23 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
In-Reply-To: <33CFF419.7E98@********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 18-Jul-97 wrote Caric:
>Us either...I think I had the highest total ever with somewhere in the
>neighborhood of 200.
As I have mention at the beginning of the week I have just crossed
500 karma :-]
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 23:01:06 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
In-Reply-To: <19970719.122629.17063.3.lobo1@****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 19-Jul-97 wrote John E Pederson:
>-Canthros (one nice thing about shapeshifters: they don't get HMHVV,
>AFAIK:)
I strongly hope the can`t or my GM would surely try this to hurt me anymore.
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 22:06:07 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970719112456.00b88900@****.interware.it> from "Paolo
Marcucci" at Jul 19, 97 07:24:12 pm
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|
|It's been a while from when I read some posts about GenCon. I definitely
|will be there on 7th, who else?
|
|GRANITE, you still mantain this list?
|--------------------------------------------------------
|Nice people going to GenCon:
ACK!
Does <sob>
Does this mean, I'll be all alone??? <sob>
<SOB>
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
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Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 17:15:28 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OOC?
On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:54:18 +1000 Glenn Munro <eazy@*****.COM.AU>
writes:
>The man who made it did not want it;
>The man who bought it did not use it;
>The man who used it did not know it.
Unless he was a vampire..
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 17:15:28 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:58:04 EDT Peter David Boddy writes:
[snip Wendigo song :) and story]
Yeah, mix one wendigo, a "tribe" of Dour (little halfling sized, awakened
primates - borderline sentient, see PAoNA) and the sewers... Oh, and
don't forget the Cthulhu-inspired totem that the Wendigo followed. The
result is the run-in that my group had with a wendigo.
What started out as a simple meet with a contact, turned into something
QUITE different.
They were supposed to meet this guy at bar in the barrens (original
huh?), and after about two hours of waiting they started getting a bit
suspicious... after asking around they found some degenerate squatter who
knew something (of course given his stuttering, and attention problem it
took them a while to get it out of him) and led them to the guy's car
where he saw "a bunch of lil' fragger's jump 'im.." Using detection
spells and stuff the search headed into the sewers and into the dour's
territory (and the traps that come with it... one PC nearly drowned when
he got his leg caught in a spiked hole.). Eventually they came to the
center... still not seeing anything other than motions in the shadows,
just out of sight. And after getting a look at this very bizarre
statue... things started coming out of the wood-work, literally. The
wendigo controlled tribe of dour came out of every knook and cranny from
all sides... along with some protean-like spirits. They barely made it
out alive. I don't think one PC will ever go near a hairy ork ever
again, after he fatally (or so he thought - ain't regen cool) impaled it
with a Halberd (don't ask why he had it... I don't remember) and it
pulled the halberd out and flung him (still holding on to the other end)
across the cavern. After which, only the heavy application of flamebombs
enabled them to escape. They have know idea if the cult is still alive
or not, and are a bit more cautious when it comes to the barrens... and
down one contact.
~Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 22:19:14 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OOC?
In-Reply-To: <19970719.142201.4807.0.z-i-m@****.com> from "Tim Cooper" at
Jul
19, 97 05:15:28 pm
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|
|On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:54:18 +1000 Glenn Munro <eazy@*****.COM.AU>
|writes:
|>The man who made it did not want it;
|>The man who bought it did not use it;
|>The man who used it did not know it.
DAMN I hate riddles....
Especially ones I knew (and later forgot) the answers to....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
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Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 22:24:06 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OOC?
In-Reply-To: <4332.199707192119@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk> from "Spike"
at
Jul 19, 97 10:19:14 pm
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|
||
||On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:54:18 +1000 Glenn Munro <eazy@*****.COM.AU>
||writes:
||>The man who made it did not want it;
||>The man who bought it did not use it;
||>The man who used it did not know it.
|
|DAMN I hate riddles....
|Especially ones I knew (and later forgot) the answers to....
Errr..... Poison????
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 17:24:24 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OOC?
>>The man who made it did not want it;
>>The man who bought it did not use it;
>>The man who used it did not know it.
>
>Unless he was a vampire..
dingdingding.. we have ourselves a winnah!
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 19:02:28 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
In-Reply-To: <01BC940A.17C68040@********.u96.stevens-tech.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sat, 19 Jul 1997, Jonathan Hurley wrote:
> But what about rifled small-arms? How do they deal with APDS ammo?
> I thought of three ways. One, (the easy way) was to make sure that the
> sabot did not expand enough to engage the rifling of the barrel. Two,
> placing inserts in the rifling of the barrel to change the weapon into a
> pseudo-smoothbore. Three, replacing the barrel with a smoothbore barrel.
> Four, not letting the PCs have APDS <g>.
Actually sabot rounds for long rifles exist today. They are called
"accelerator" rounds. You can buy them for the 30.06. The actual bullet
is a .22 cal but the plastic (I guess) makes up the difference. The
bullet discards the sabot and travels on to the target at 2 to 3 times
the speed of a similar .30 bullet.
I hope this helps
-Bill
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 02:13:38 +0000
Reply-To: trrkt@******.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Bows and crossbows
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Hmmm...
I have recently created a character who has no Firearms skill, and
his main weapon (well, besides his hands and knives) is a bow. And,
when reviewing the SR rules concerning archery, I saw that bows were
severely shortchanged in comparison to crossbows.
I am talking about the rate of fire, which is the same in both cases
(simple action to ready and simple action to shoot). This is
ludicrous. After all, the main advantage of the bow was it's high
rate of fire...
So, I came up with this simple solution: make the readying of a bow
a free action (though I think this would require easy acces to
arrows, like stuck in the ground before you, or in a quiver on your
hip). This way, you get 3 shots from a bow each 2 combat phases,
whereas you get 2 shots from a crossbow each 2 combat rounds.
This makes bow slower then SA weapons (figures), faster then SS
weapons (kinda figures, too) and faster then crossbows (which are
still too fast... Maybe make readying a crossbow a complex action,
and increase the power slightly to reflect the power of your average
x-bow).
Oh, yeah, and arrows and bolts are resisted by Impact armor (I hope
this written somewhere...)
I also hope this is not one of the "once a week" topics on this
list... (It was not in the FAQ, anyway)...
Oh, yeah, the newbie intro (I hate that part):
Hello. I'm a newbie to this RPG biz. I joined this list 'cause I just
started playing ShadowRun. This is a really cool game, and makes for
a nice change after my four months AD&D campaign. At least I could
retire my level 19/19/19 Drow Fighter/Mage/Cleric that had attained
demigod status... I'm currently creating a similar character for SR.
My main complaint is that I have only one A category... This creation
system is Dumb. (And is there a ShadowRun Drow race? And what is this
funny "munchkin" term some people use on the Internet?).
<grin, duck & run>
Mike (Leszek Karlik): http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike/index.htm
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!r-- y-*
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Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 19:22:05 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Dragons at the end of an age
In-Reply-To: <970718190802_1279902233@*******.mail.aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 07:09 PM 7/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
#In a message dated 97-07-18 01:27:18 EDT, daddyjim@**********.COM (Loki)
#writes:
#
#M
#e
#r
#c
#u
#r
#i
#a
#l
#
#S
#p
#o
#i
#l
#e
#r
#s
#
#f
#o
#r
#
#t
#h
#e
#
#U
#l
#t
#r
#a
#
#S
#e
#n
#s
#i
#t
#i
#v
#e
#
#>
#> Now, Perianwyr isn't a great dragon so this would seem to imply that
#> both great and lesser dragons both go into a sleep or stasis during
#> times of low/no mana.
#>
#Okay, now I admit that it was 7 years ago (6?), but I recall Perianwyr being
#a Great Western Dragon.
#-Keith
nope, it's just a western dragon
am running that scenario at the moment
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 02:51:50 +0000
Reply-To: trrkt@******.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Question concerning movement
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Hmmm...
I have always thought that reflex enhancements, among other things,
allow one to, well, run like hell. This was mainly due to the story
in the SR2, where Nameless states that "movin' through a downtown
crowd at 70 kph isn't the smart thing to do". Also, when I saw that
initiative and reflex enhancements really do matter (unlike CP2020,
which is one of the reasons why I prefer SR to CP...), and that they
give additional actions, I thought: "That figures. With reflex
enhancement, I can have 2 or more combat phases a turn instead of the
normal one, so I can take two running actions and run at twice the
human rate...".
But recently, when translating the available Actions into Polish for
those unfortunate co-players of mine who don't know the language of
Shakespeare, I've found this little sentence in the "Movement"
section of "Combat" chapter:
"Characters who have multiple Actions may run only in one of those
Combat Phases, but it does not matter which."
Does this make sense?
Nope. (Run walk walk, walk run walk, walk walk run... Kinda stupid,
isn't it?)
So, what do you think about it?
Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
If the French won't buy our lamb we won't use their letters.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 21:01:32 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: SPELL: Totemform
On Sat, 19 Jul 1997 22:13:01 +0000 "Mike (Leszek Karlik)"
<trrkt@******.com> writes:
>> > This spell can be cast only by shamanic initiates.
>>
>> I really don't see why.
>
>Because it masks the aura. It is rather useful this way, and I think
>that since masking is only available to initiates...
I think it was the 'shamanic' part he was disputing...
>> > Range: Personal only
Why? Why wouldn't the Totem give the shaman the ability to pass such a
'gift' to another person?
>> That's not a terribly powerful spell, given that it's a Damage Code
>> higher than (Critter) form. An Initiate should be able to mask
his/her
>> form anyway, regardless of which form he or she appears in.
>
>Yes, but masking allows only to appear as a mundane human. An animal
>with a human aura in astral space is a pretty obvious give-away,
>isn't it? Now, think of the possibilities for the Rat shaman (you can
>spell-cast in the animal form, after all...).
I think your point on Masking is open to debate. What it says is that it
'hides the true nature of the magician's aura, allowing him to appear as
a mundane when assensed.' In my mind, at least, there's no reason he
shouldn't be able to make his aura appear as whatever the heck he wants,
it hides the aura's true appearance, I see no reason the initiate should
be limited to the appearance of a mundane or a non-initiate if he prefer
something else. One could assume, however, that a mundane of the
magician's race is the default appearance, else a dragon or one of the
<gasp> IE would be unable to appear as anything but a dragon or Immortal
Elf (we'll ignore the fact that such persons don't exactly obey the
normal game rules:)
While, I'm talking, your e-mail reply-to isn't getting over-ridden by the
listproc. You might have fewer problems with it if you leave the reply-to
blank...
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 21:01:32 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkins - (Slight Rant)
On Sat, 19 Jul 1997 22:27:52 +0000 Khayman <gunnerhansen@********.DK>
writes:
>On 19 Jul 97 at 12:27, John E Pederson wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:19:54 +0200 Clen Cook <Clen@******.CO.ZA>
>writes:
>> >Let's face it - weren't we all Munchkins in the beginning?
>Hmmm, past experiences tell me that people who have never read or
>heard anything about the roleplaying world, be it scifi or D&D, will
>be most likely to build a character with the sole purpose of being
>the best & strongest.
Probably true. Also expect something similar out of those who read lots
of comic books:)
<snip'd>
>Just a question for you guys: 300-400 KP !?! How many KP do award in
>each game? how many games have you played?
Myself? Played? Eh, a handful. I don't usually manage more than a
half-dozen a year and awards were running approx. 7-10 Karma (yeah, it's
rather high), but that's lower than when I wasn't GM, when awards upwards
of 10 or 11 were low:) As for 300 to 400 Karma, that's just a guess. I
have no idea how much those two nitwits had munched into the characters
(1-2 year old characters in a monty haul campaign where two guys, one of
which was the GM, each played a character. NOTE: only a guess:) All I
really know is that they were close friends (at the time, anyway) and
that there weren't too many people to play SR or Werewolf or Vampire or
AD&D or whatever game system they were abusing this week:) and that they
played fast and loose with the rules (racial maximums? Different Karma
costs for skills and attributes? Role-playing? What? :) BTW, the highest
amount of Karma any character picked up that I know of (excepting the two
monsters above:) was about 56 or so, and that was my character:) Current
NPC stats for said character are worth around 500 or 600 Karma, just
guesstimating:)
>>
>> I think it's better if they are intro'd to a game by a guy who isn't a
>> munch and does a good job of not allowing munchkinning in his game. I
>> know I wouldn't have been a munchy at all if I hadn't been intro'd to
SR
>> by a pair of munchy-powergamer types (not that powergaming is bad:)
>>
>Right! Some discipline and strict teaching! That'll do the job : )
Well, that's what I think, anyway. It seems to work, so long as they
don't get turned over to a munchkin GM right after their first game or
three (guess what the crowd I play seems to have in excess?)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 04:24:23 +0000
Reply-To: trrkt@******.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Bows and crossbows
In-Reply-To: <yam7140.129.136867032@****.amigaworld.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hmmm...
> From: Barbie <barbie@**********.com>
> [snip bow-crossbow]
>
> I would rule that the crossbow needs a complex action to ready.
> And keep the bow at a simple action.
> Makes life easy for all and keeps the bow from been owerpowered.
Hmmm... Yeah, I kinda like it.
<stupid stuff I wrote at 3 am snipped>
> Yep its a coolgame.
> If you want some fancierstuff for character generation I suggest you to get a
> copy of
> the SR companion. Something like the drow is included too.
Yep, I know. However, I'm not living in States. I bought most of my
Star Wars rulebooks by direct mail order from States and it was
faster than waiting for them to appear in my local RPG shop. :((
> Munchkin, just stay a bit with us and you will know.
I know the term... I was just being kinda sarcastic. Still, I would
classify myself as a slight min-maxer (OK, so I do have powergaming
tendencies. Sue me. I guess it's from watching too many Seagal
movies... :P ).
Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
I looked up my wife's family tree - half the family were still living in it!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 04:24:23 +0000
Reply-To: trrkt@******.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Bows and crossbows
In-Reply-To: <199707200117.UAA16586@********.ix.netcom.com>
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Hmmm...
From: mbreton@**.netcom.com (Matb)
> >ludicrous. After all, the main advantage of the bow was it's high
> >rate of fire...
>
> Mechanical crossbows, maybe?
I doubt it. Something like this should be mentioned, after all...
> >still too fast... Maybe make readying a crossbow a complex action,
> >and increase the power slightly to reflect the power of your average
> >x-bow).
>
> Crossbows need a power boost, considering the damage a Troll can wreak
> with a compound bow. (And then add on Dikoted arrowheads and a
> smartlink....)
Yeah, that's what I think, too... Like, add +2 to the power of
crossbow bolts... (Kinda figures, since they did pierce the armour
quite easily).
OTOH, Troll with a compound bow can and should wreak damage. Bow is
better than a crossbow, and x-bows are stronger only because they use
stronger materials, able to store more energy. Now, the bow has
longer arms, so a bow with a tensile strength of a crossbow bow would
be a truely fearsome weapon (and a one only usable by a troll...).
> It's why they're under the header "Impact Projectile Weapons" in the
> Weapons section. It's a bit clearer in the armor section.
OK... I see...
(intro snipped)
Ummm... I was just kidding about the AD&D and f/m/c character
(who, BTW, could not be created according to AD&D rules...).
> I've seen newbies try and pass off characters with all "A" priorities
> before, sigh. If you want a different creation system, take a gander
> at the Shadowrun Companion, which provides two alternatives.
Oh, yeah. I guess I should issue a small correction here:
In reality, I play RPG's from four years, and SR from 2 years. (I
also happen to like SR mechanics of successes, and prefer them to
adding of all the damn D6s in Star Wars...)
And, unfortunately, here in Poland my GM buys what is available, and
not what he wants... No Companion... <sigh>
> It's also got what comes closest to SR Drow, the Night Ones. They
> don't live underground, but they don't like daylight either (nor are
> they all ambidextrous or magic-users -- sorry, but I really hated Drow
> in AD&D, Drizz't included.)
Yeah. But AFAIK there were no Night Ones in the Fourth World, now
were they (OTOH ED shows only a small portion of the fourth world, so
one does not need to be constrained by the 8 Name-Giver races...).
> And, um, there aren't any Fighter/Mage/Clerics in SR. There aren't
> classes. (You could say mages are hermetics and clerics are shamans,
> but you can't be both.)
I know.. That's why I like non-classed systems (umm... that would be
GURPS, Star Wars, SR, Amber and lotsa others..). That's also why I
don't like CP2020...
Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
Phoneco.sys corrupted - recommend competitive market
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 04:24:23 +0000
Reply-To: trrkt@******.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Re: SPELL: Totemform
In-Reply-To: <19970719.210002.3135.3.lobo1@****.com>
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Hmmm...
> >> > This spell can be cast only by shamanic initiates.
> >> I really don't see why.
> >Because it masks the aura. It is rather useful this way, and I think
> >that since masking is only available to initiates...
> I think it was the 'shamanic' part he was disputing...
Oh, yeah. I see. Well, mages have no Totem, so this would be kinda
poinless for them (I suppose). A shamanic adept could cast
it, too...
> >> > Range: Personal only
> Why? Why wouldn't the Totem give the shaman the ability to pass such a
> 'gift' to another person?
Well, because draws directly on the strength of the totem, which is
given as a form of "reward" for the caster. (Also, it lowers the
drain code :P ).
But I see it could be disputable...
> >Yes, but masking allows only to appear as a mundane human. An animal
> >with a human aura in astral space is a pretty obvious give-away,
> >isn't it? Now, think of the possibilities for the Rat shaman (you can
> >spell-cast in the animal form, after all...).
> I think your point on Masking is open to debate. What it says is that it
> 'hides the true nature of the magician's aura, allowing him to appear as
> a mundane when assensed.' In my mind, at least, there's no reason he
> shouldn't be able to make his aura appear as whatever the heck he wants,
> it hides the aura's true appearance, I see no reason the initiate should
> be limited to the appearance of a mundane or a non-initiate if he prefer
> something else. One could assume, however, that a mundane of the
> magician's race is the default appearance, else a dragon or one of the
> <gasp> IE would be unable to appear as anything but a dragon or Immortal
> Elf (we'll ignore the fact that such persons don't exactly obey the
> normal game rules:)
Hmmm... Yeah, if the GM rules you're able to mask yourself as
whatever you want, I guess you're better off with a Personal
Critterform... :> Still, the only +1 for sustaining as a gift from
the totem is nice. (Of course, I would rule that it's not cumulative
with the Focussed Concentration. Or maybe it is? Darn, I guess it
would be worth the higher drain... Anyway, we have no Companion, thus
no E&Fs...)
> While, I'm talking, your e-mail reply-to isn't getting over-ridden by the
> listproc. You might have fewer problems with it if you leave the reply-to
> blank...
Thanks...
Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
Michael Cross - clan Nosferatu, computer hacker.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 23:13:02 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Kabael <kabael@****.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:06 PM 7/19/97 +0100, you wrote:
>|
>|It's been a while from when I read some posts about GenCon. I definitely
>|will be there on 7th, who else?
>|
>|GRANITE, you still mantain this list?
>|--------------------------------------------------------
>|Nice people going to GenCon:
>
>ACK!
>
>Does <sob>
>Does this mean, I'll be all alone??? <sob>
>
><SOB>
I SHOULD be going, if all goes according to plan (everyone cross your
fingers please!)
of course, no one really knows me on this list : )
k a b a e l meo the shoes :- ) kabael@****.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 23:12:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: I guess it had to happen sometime;
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
> Date: Friday, July 18, 1997 1:57 AM
> I don't know if I just don't watch enough tv or what, but I saw an add
> for "Magic The Gathering" on the sci-fi channel. If WotC is going to buy
> FASA, they better stop advertising and save their money. I assume that
> WotC does the card game. I don't play myself. I don't have the money to
> indulge a Shadowrun addiction and a Magic addiciton. Some of my freinds
> that are really into magic have sunk hundreds of $$ into that game. If
> had sunk that much I would have an almost complete library.
I had a similar problem a few years ago. I sunk a few hundred dollars into
MtG and had a very hard time keeping up with their quarterly updates.
Thus, I gave away (yes, GAVE) my several hundred dollar MtG collection.
Recently, I saw the MtG CD Rom game. I bought it. Why? Cause I can play
against the computer in an isolated environment without having to worry
about the computer picking up a bazillion starter packs that I don't know
anything about and can't design my deck around.
This has been the best solution I have ever seen (without just giving up
the game altogether).
> regards
> Bill
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 06:10:44 +0000
Reply-To: trrkt@******.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Munchkin man :P
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hmmm...
I've been reading through the Paranoid Animals of NA, and saw the
Speed Samurai archetype...
What a wussie... :P
Now, think about that: a physical adept (or, better yet, physical
mage) with at least 1st grade initation (so he can have the +2D6
bioware and the max. adept initiative increase (+3D6) for IIRC 5
magic points...). Now, that gives him a 6D6 initiative, but that's
not all... Now, add an increase reflexes +3D6 spell, for a total of
9D6 initiative. And now Critterform him into a tiger or a panther,
for an additional 2D6 to initiative. Voila, a whopping 11D6
initiative, for an average roll of 33, whitout counting the reaction.
Make the critterform force 6, cast with 6 magic pool and 12 successes
(Karma and Team Karma), that adds +6 to all physical attributes of
the tiger, increasing the reaction by 3 (at least).
(I think I should be shot, to miminalize the suffering of my
immediate entourage. Heh. :P )
PS: Oh, yeah, the physical mage could cast spells in critterform.
Talk about a spellvindicator... :>
MUHAHAHAHAHAA!
(Of course, one could say that in critterform, the bioware bonus does
not apply... In that case, skip the critterform unless you want to
engage in HTH, or rather HTP combat. Still, you've got yourself an
adept with 9D6 initiative. Add the raise reaction power, raise
attribute spells and you've got one fast fragger. Also, he should be
rather high-graded init to mask all that Christmas lights, err..
spell locks. :P Or, while we're at it, give the initiate physad a
beta or delta-grade wired 3 instead of the bioware - if you allow
spell and cyberware stacking. Which is not appilcable in any sane
campaign...).
Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
I'm trying to find myself. Anyone seen me lately?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 14:07:21 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Skye Comstock <bilbo@****.NWLINK.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970719112456.00b88900@****.interware.it>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Skye (yes... parents approval pending)
No Money, No Go. I'd drive my '7 there, but it'd take forever
and I'd have to steal gas... ;)
-Skye
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 00:59:31 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkin man :P
On Sun, 20 Jul 1997 06:10:44 +0000 "Mike (Leszek Karlik)"
<trrkt@******.com> writes:
>Hmmm...
>
>I've been reading through the Paranoid Animals of NA, and saw the
>Speed Samurai archetype...
>
>What a wussie... :P
<snip>
>(I think I should be shot, to miminalize the suffering of my
>immediate entourage. Heh. :P )
I agree. Unfortunately, I don't have any firearms (of the lead
slug-throwing variety) so you'll have to make do with...THIS!
<sounds of whirring and clicking as portable fully-automatic carp
launcher is readied and aimed>
Safeties off <click>
FIRE!!!
THWAPTHWAPTHWAPTHWAPTHWAPTHWAPTHWAPTHWAP!
@#$%&! Give me a moment (one bad thing about carp launchers - you can't
fit many carp in a clip:)
:)
>PS: Oh, yeah, the physical mage could cast spells in critterform.
>Talk about a spellvindicator... :>
Hmm...I think I may have a carp grenade around here somewhere...
:)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 01:58:37 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:06 PM 7/19/97 +0100, Spike wrote these timeless words:
>|
>|It's been a while from when I read some posts about GenCon. I definitely
>|will be there on 7th, who else?
>|
>|GRANITE, you still mantain this list?
>|--------------------------------------------------------
>|Nice people going to GenCon:
>
>ACK!
>
>Does <sob>
>Does this mean, I'll be all alone??? <sob>
>
><SOB>
>
Nope...
Tinner will be around, that sad sack... Every year we make plans to do
Gen Con. and every year it falls thru. Well, we're finally doing it, and
he can';t go...
Well... At least he'll be around to Keep you company Spikey...;]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 01:58:41 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:45 AM 7/18/97 -0800, Skye Comstock wrote these timeless words:
>>I hate you all!
>>
>>I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
>>
>>Argh!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>:]
>
>Hey, I think it was my idea, too. :] Did you read the posts, Bull? Bad!
>Bad Bad Bull! I'll send the armies of Free Spirit Woosps after you
>stupid children!
>
>-Skye, "Lets turn him into a purple Wendigo." :P
>
So it was YOUR idea, eh Skye? BAD skye... Bad Bad bad!!!!!
And no, I didn;t peek...:]
We did a little RP the other night, and I that's when the "change" started...
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 02:36:00 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:27 PM 7/19/97 EDT, John E Pederson wrote these timeless words:
>On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 01:49:32 -0400 Bull <chaos@*****.COM> writes:
>>I hate you all!
>>
>>I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
>>
>>Argh!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>:]
>
>Sorry, but I couldn't help but laugh:) It's a bad habit of mine. In any
>case, Bull, look on the bright side: you're still alive! (Okay, if you
>want to nit-pick, I guess you're undead:) And you can start taking Magic
>lessons now:) And you can get recipes from the Mantids:):):) And there
>are worse things, at least the wendigos are sentient (something that
>can't be said about all vamps:) Of course, there's the small matter of a
>there being a bounty on your head...
>
Well... I'm certainly not happy about it...;]
>Question: if you're turning into a Wendigo, will your smiley and .sig
>change to reflect it:)
>
Not yet... i haven't actually turned INTO one yet... And hopefully I
won;t. As it is, it's REALLY putting a crimp in my marriage...
And why should the smiley change? Wendigo's have tusks...:]
Bull-who-REALLY-doesn't-want-to-eat-his-wife-and-kids
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 02:36:06 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkins - (Slight Rant)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:27 PM 7/19/97 +0000, Khayman wrote these timeless words:
>Just a question for you guys: 300-400 KP !?! How many KP do award in
>each game? how many games have you played?
>
Our games (both the games Tinner runs and mine) tend to net anywhere from 2
Karma to 10, with some reaching as high as 15 to 18. Of course, this isn;t
always for a one night game either.
A short one or two hour RP session with little combat will usually garner 2
Karma per player.
A normal one night run, with moderate threat level to the players, and a
decent amount of RP will net between 4 and 7 karma.
If a run last several nights, and involves a LOT of RP, and usually a High
threat level to the players, tehy can get anywhere up to around 10 Karma.
this is the most I've given out for one set of adventures (and it was a
four game session adventure).
With Tinner, we've gotten a little more. I think 18 was the highest paying
run we've had so far. this was a several night game that involved HEAVY
threat, a LOT of RP, and something along the lines of Saving The World
(tm). ((See the Cuthulhu run that I posted a few days ago fordetails on
this type of run)).
As for how many sessions we've played? Probably somewhere between 150-200
with these characters (the 400 karma one, in my case:)).
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 02:36:09 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Totems
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:31 AM 7/20/97 +1000, Chris Maxfield wrote these timeless words:
The one explanation that I cannot except is that
>they are Powers That Have Existed Since Before The Dawn Of Time. They damn
>well don't exist now in 1997 and so a good explanation is needed for where
>they came from by 2058.
>
While I agree that Totems are not PthESBtDoT, they are definately older
than you think...
What do you think Native American indians worshipped back a couple hundred
years ago (and even today), if not the memory of the totems from the last
age of magic?
There are no totems and magic Now, granted, though most of the native
american totems Do exist now. I think of them as "Sleeping", similar to
what it is theorized the Dragon's did. After all, with no mana, they're
powerless, as are their followers...
Granted, this doesn;t explain some of the Modern Totems, or the City totems...
I think this is a really wierd area, the thing with the totems...
Since I'm typing this already, I might as well formulate my own theories on
the subject. GM's have to do that sort of thing ya know...:]
BULL'S TOTEM THEORY:
((Warning: After thinking this through a bit, it starts to sound vaguely
like AD&D Gods, as well as "God's from hundreds of other Fantasy settings.
Deal with it. AD&D and SR have a lot in common, despite the vehement
dennials of most players.))
It's simple.
1. There are an infinate number of "greater Spirits" that live on the
metaplanes.
2. These spirits have a lot of power, but without "worshippers"
or"followers" of some kind, they cannot reach the "Plane of Man"
(What the
hell is our plane of existance called in SR?).
3. When a large enough group of people start to believe in something (Or
even a single person who believes strongly enough), like the Urban Gator
Totem, then one of the Greater Spirits can latch on and form itself around
this belief. The spirits grants power, but at the same time is shaped and
formed (and confined) by this belief. Thus, while some of the Totems
(suchs as the Native American Totems) have been around for thousand's of
years, gator, Leviathan, and Elvis has only been around sicne the Awakening.
4. Once "attuned" to their totem, whether by consious choice or by being
"chosen" by their totem, their opower is then linked with it. Thus, the
benifits and restrictions of a totem that must be followed, and the loss of
power should the Shaman turn away from his totem.
5. There may be different forms of the same Totem, as different "aspects"
of a Totem are called upon by different Shamans, thus allowing a Differnt
Greater Spirit to attach itself to that focus.
6. Insect Totems are NOT from this realm. rather, they are in essence
Minor Horrors, or something similar.
Ok, that's all I can think of now... Granted, it doesn;t all make perfect
sense, and as I mentioned before, smacks of AD&D or other fantasy concpts
(If any of you have read some of the recent Raymond Feist novels, I'm
actually basing the idea on the concept of how their gods work. Don;t ask
me to explain, though. I can;t. :] )
And, this will probably be the working theory behind my Totems and Shamans
in my game. I LIKE the idea of a Shaman being controlled and drawning
strength and power from a greater being. It makes the shaman more unique,
and gives them so many more Roleplaying oppurtunities...;]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 02:36:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:08 PM 7/19/97 +0100, Spike wrote these timeless words:
>|Orks... Well... SR is probably the only game I know of where Orks are a
>|normal, viable race. AD&D came close with it's half orcs, but... That's
>|still not the same... And Orcs in Tolkien were pretty much the same as in
>|AD&D: Evil green beasties... They were also called Goblins in Tolkiens
>|books...
>
>Not the only one....
>
>Paladium had Orcs as player characters, along with Hobgoblins, goblins,
>changelings and Wolfen. 10 years ago.....
>
I'm not TOO familiar with Palladium's Fantasy RPG. but even in that,
despite allowing Orc Characters, weren't the Orc's still the "bad guy"? By
normal, viable race, I meant a race that WASN'T considered evil and
perfectly alright to slaughter at will...:]
>And quite a few LRP systems allow almost any race (that isn't unbalancing).
>
True, but once again... How many are Orc's simply "another race", rather
than being an Evil Race?
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 17:59:06 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Glenn Munro <eazy@*****.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Totems
In-Reply-To: <tcppop3.379731@***.hydra.com.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Bull spoke thusly:
>[snip: BULL'S TOTEM THEORY:]
>
>Ok, that's all I can think of now... Granted, it doesn;t all make perfect
>sense, and as I mentioned before, smacks of AD&D or other fantasy concpts
>(If any of you have read some of the recent Raymond Feist novels, I'm
>actually basing the idea on the concept of how their gods work. Don;t ask
>me to explain, though. I can;t. :] )
>
Hey Bull, have u read the swords/lost swords stuff by Saberhagen? People
came first and created gods. The Gods were real and believed they created
Humans. The forger god made some magic swords. Eventually poeple stopped
believing in gods but the magic swords remained.
>And, this will probably be the working theory behind my Totems and Shamans
>in my game. I LIKE the idea of a Shaman being controlled and drawning
>strength and power from a greater being. It makes the shaman more unique,
>and gives them so many more Roleplaying oppurtunities...;]
>
Yeah. I like the totem and shaman interacting...the shaman being guided by
a higher power...or asking for help :)
QuickFix
The man who made it did not want it;
The man who bought it did not use it;
The man who used it did not know it.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 01:15:51 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Totems
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 19 Jul 1997 23:36:09 PDT."
<3.0.16.19970720023702.31afdee6@*****.com>
>Ok, that's all I can think of now... Granted, it doesn;t all make perfect
>sense, and as I mentioned before, smacks of AD&D or other fantasy concpts
>(If any of you have read some of the recent Raymond Feist novels, I'm
>actually basing the idea on the concept of how their gods work. Don;t ask
>me to explain, though. I can;t. :] )
Actually, it sounds moslty like the Discworld model to me.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:10:13 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkin man :P
In-Reply-To: <199707200809.BAA03308@****.parc.xerox.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hmmm...
> >I've been reading through the Paranoid Animals of NA, and saw the
> >Speed Samurai archetype...
>
> <snip munchy, rule-jumping-up-and-down-on char. concept>
>
> Gurth, could you post the latest version of your speed elf?
a) Did this go to the list, or only to me?
b) Damn, I should have known there's a better, faster model on the
market... :P
Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
Since using your shampoo, my hair has come alive. Signed: Medusa.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:56:12 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Zephalin? [OT]
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John Dukes said on 9:30/19 Jul 97...
> (I have no idea how to spell zephalin :)
"Zephalin" :)
However, if you're referring to an airship with a rigid metal framework,
it's "zeppelin," after the German count von Zeppelin who invented them
somewhere around the last turn of the century. (To the best of my
knowledge, a "zephalin" doesn't exist... :)
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:56:13 +0100
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: White phosphorus (Re: [SR3] Things that always annoyed you in SR
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Shadowrun ML demon shadowrn-m said on 17:15/19 Jul 97...
> "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK> writes:
> > It's nasty, but far from being utterly and totally fatal. WP casualties
> > survive quite nicely today.
>
> Uhm - I find this pretty hard to believe, I have to admit. As far as I
> know having about 40% of your skin burned to third degree is already
> lethal
80%, I thought it was. At any rate I'd rather not find out :)
> and even hot water can cause third degree burns without any problems. So
> something that is sticky and burns a few hundred degrees (what IS the
> exact temperature, btw.)
Not sure. Thermite burns at about 2000 degrees, but WP is a lot cooler
IIRC.
> is causing third degree burns within fractions of a second... someone
> surviving being splashed with that stuff (without any special equipment,
> of course). Maybe if you only got a few drops... but whatever has been
> hit got a third degree burn, so if more than 40% of the body has been
> hit you are dead.
Maybe the way to find out who is right is to do some research into RL WP
wounds. My guess (based partly on what I read in Phoenix Command Special
Weapon supplement, and partly on my own reasoning) is that people close to
the blast get covered in lots of small particles that don't burn all that
long (small particle = large surface:volume ratio = short burn time), plus
a reasonably large number or bigger particles similar to normal grenade
fragments. Those further away only get to deal with the larger particles,
because they can travel further than the small, light ones.
From that, it looks to me like people close to the blast will get large
amounts of burns which will likely kill even with treatment, while those
further away get only a few burns that will only be life-threatening if
not treated soon.
SR actually simulates this: closeby you get to deal with a 14M explosion,
and with 7 dice behind it (per the Companion's optional rule) that isn't
very healthy. Anyone who survives that -- which are those targets away
from the center of the blast -- take 10L each turn for 15 turns, reduced
by impact armor and resisted _only_ with Body. Not many people can do
that, but if they get treatment soon it'll only give a few Light wounds.
> Yeah - but there is hardly anything you can do once a certain amount
> of skin has been burned... at least not nowadays. I could imagine,
> though, that in the future you'd have tanks with some special liquid
> that could take over the functions of the skin until the body had a
> chance to regenerate.
Bacta tanks :)
> Uhm. So what happens to the electronics and the rubber & plastic parts
> of the engine when they get exposed to flames that burn at several
> hundret degrees... my experience is that plastic, rubber and
> electronics don't really like this.
It'd have to be hit by burning particles, and the particles would have to
stick onto the wiring long enough to melt the plastic off large sections
of the wires. If it's just a glance then there'd probably be some melting
on some individual wires, but nothing serious unless they happen to touch
each other.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:56:12 +0100
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Orks & goblins
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Caun Haskins said on 7:39/18 Jul 97...
> Wow, wait a minuit, are you telling me that at one time orks and goblins
> were thought of as the same thing!! I always thought of them as totaly
> diferent races, they are adn will always be in my head totaly different.
> (I can't see the goblins in anybody's books the same as any oof my SR
> characters, That would just spoil my day!)
If you read The Hobbit, you'll find that the creatures called "orcs" in
other books are called "goblins" there. The intro in my copy states that
"/Orc/ is not an English word. It occurs in one or two places but is
usually translated /goblin/ (or /hobgoblin/ for the larger kinds). /Orc/
is the hobbits' form of the name given at that time to these creatures".
In Shadowrun, however, "ork" refers to Homo sapiens robustus, one of the
four major human subspecies that appeared after the Awkening; "goblin,"
however, is normally used to refer to Homo bestius, which are dwarfs
infected with the Human-Metahuman Vampiric Virus, but still (according to
the scientific name) human.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:28:22 +0100
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In-Reply-To: <4310.199707192106@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
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Spike said on 22:06/19 Jul 97...
> |Nice people going to GenCon:
>
> ACK!
>
> Does <sob>
> Does this mean, I'll be all alone??? <sob>
>
> <SOB>
It looks like only us non-Americans will be left... You won't be alone,
as a matter of fact it looks like we'll be rid of many of those obnoxious
Americans for a while ;)
BTW, since this started as a GenCon thing, who will be going to the
European version?
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 04:52:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Deosyne <deosyne@*********.NET>
Organization: The War Machine
Subject: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
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Hey kids, how's life? Had to do a brief stint in rehab for a bitty
relapse of the Crystal Entity, but I'm back. Ditched the WebTV unit and
finally assembled my 'puter, so g'head and bitch if the column width is
off. :) I'll fix it. BTW Gurth: about time to change the block in yer
sig; the geeks have probably found a way passed it. :) So what new toys
have the lovely folks at FASA dropped out in the passed couple months;
<hopeful>RBB2???</hopeful> One can dream.
Deosyne (Shawn Baumgartner)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:28:23 +0100
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Munchkin man :P
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Mike (Leszek Karlik) said on 6:10/20 Jul 97...
> I've been reading through the Paranoid Animals of NA, and saw the
> Speed Samurai archetype...
>
> What a wussie... :P
Fastest character you can make (AFAIK) with the standard character
generation rules (with the More Metahumans optional rule and without using
Cybertechnology, that is; with CT he gets up to 21+4D6).
> Now, think about that: a physical adept (or, better yet, physical
> mage) with at least 1st grade initation (so he can have the +2D6
> bioware and the max. adept initiative increase (+3D6) for IIRC 5
> magic points...). Now, that gives him a 6D6 initiative, but that's
> not all... Now, add an increase reflexes +3D6 spell, for a total of
> 9D6 initiative. And now Critterform him into a tiger or a panther,
> for an additional 2D6 to initiative. Voila, a whopping 11D6
> initiative, for an average roll of 33, whitout counting the reaction.
> Make the critterform force 6, cast with 6 magic pool and 12 successes
> (Karma and Team Karma), that adds +6 to all physical attributes of
> the tiger, increasing the reaction by 3 (at least).
There are several problems with the character you're talking about. First
and foremost, he/she CANNOT be made as a starting character, unless for
some reason your GM allows you to use Force Points for initiations (which
I definitely don't).
Second, and this uses a ruling by Tom Dowd that you probably aren't aware
of and which some people might heavily dispute (MC23, keep quiet, OK? :)
namely that only the highest initiative boost applies. That means your
character would have only +3D6, not +11D6.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:28:23 +0100
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Munchkin man :P
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Mike (Leszek Karlik) said on 10:10/20 Jul 97...
> > Gurth, could you post the latest version of your speed elf?
>
> a) Did this go to the list, or only to me?
Probably only to you, since you have (had?) a reply-to address set in your
mailer, which the list doesn't override, unfortunately.
> b) Damn, I should have known there's a better, faster model on the
> market... :P
The original Speed Sam was designed about a year before Cybertechnology
came out; a few months ago I upgraded him. If you want to I'll send you a
copy privately, since most subscribers to the list will have seen him
before.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:28:23 +0100
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Bows and crossbows
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Mike (Leszek Karlik) said on 2:13/20 Jul 97...
> So, I came up with this simple solution: make the readying of a bow
> a free action (though I think this would require easy acces to
> arrows, like stuck in the ground before you, or in a quiver on your
> hip). This way, you get 3 shots from a bow each 2 combat phases,
> whereas you get 2 shots from a crossbow each 2 combat rounds.
Erm... What exactly do you mean by "readying" a bow? Putting an arrow on
the bow? Drawing the string back so you can shoot the weapon? That'd mean
you can shoot the bow once per Combat Phase: you have to spend a Free
Action to "ready" it, and then a Simple Action to shoot, if I read you
correctly. *waits for Dvixen to point out the proper archery terms :) *
> This makes bow slower then SA weapons (figures), faster then SS
> weapons (kinda figures, too) and faster then crossbows (which are
> still too fast... Maybe make readying a crossbow a complex action,
> and increase the power slightly to reflect the power of your average
> x-bow).
I have a feeling I'm not quite on the same wavelength as you are, though,
since it looks to me like you still have the same ROF as a crossbow.
> Oh, yeah, and arrows and bolts are resisted by Impact armor (I hope
> this written somewhere...)
Yes, that's in the section about body armor (SRII page 242).
> I also hope this is not one of the "once a week" topics on this
> list... (It was not in the FAQ, anyway)...
Not exactly, it may have been brought up before (there's a big chance of
that) but definitely not on any regular basis, unlike several other
topics.
> Oh, yeah, the newbie intro (I hate that part):
Welcome to the list :)
> My main complaint is that I have only one A category... This creation
> system is Dumb.
Use the optional "add to 10" system from the Companion, then. That way you
can get two A priorities plus three E's :)
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 19:38:40 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Glenn Munro <eazy@*****.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
In-Reply-To: <tcppop3.379765@***.hydra.com.au>
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Deosyne wrote:
>Hey kids, how's life? Had to do a brief stint in rehab for a bitty
>relapse of the Crystal Entity, but I'm back. Ditched the WebTV unit and
>finally assembled my 'puter, so g'head and bitch if the column width is
>off. :) I'll fix it. BTW Gurth: about time to change the block in yer
>sig; the geeks have probably found a way passed it. :) So what new toys
>have the lovely folks at FASA dropped out in the passed couple months;
><hopeful>RBB2???</hopeful> One can dream.
>
hope no longer! RBB2 is due to be released in sept IIRC :)
Woohoo!
Quickfix
The man who made it did not want it;
The man who bought it did not use it;
The man who used it did not know it.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 05:23:24 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Deosyne <deosyne@*********.NET>
Organization: The War Machine
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
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Glenn Munro wrote:
>
> Deosyne wrote:
<snippity me posting>
> hope no longer! RBB2 is due to be released in sept IIRC :)
> Woohoo!
>
> Quickfix
IIRC RBB2 has been scheduled for release several times. But as it is
already mid-July, I daresay FASA may stick to this one. :) The Westwind
2057... oohhhh... :)
Deosyne
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Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 06:00:41 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
On Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:28:22 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>It looks like only us non-Americans will be left... You won't be alone,
>as a matter of fact it looks like we'll be rid of many of those
obnoxious
>Americans for a while ;)
Hey! We aren't ALL going....
~Tim (who has never been to, nor will probably ever be at GenCon.)
[Of course I'm going on vacation for a week starting in.. Oh...7 hours,
then home for 2 weeks, then off to Canada for nearly 2 more weeks... then
back to school..]
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 04:48:57 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Target:UCAS
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WooHoo! :)
Target:UCAS finally got here, and I picked it up, along with Stranger Souls
and the Merideth Brooks CD. I haven't finished reading it entirely, but
I've skimmed it for the quotes, and it seems like a pretty good book.
I haven't gotten a chance to even open Stranger Souls yet, but I think I'll
do that now.. And the Merideth Brooks CD is not bad, but I can see it
getting repetitive quickly.
I'M EVEN ON THE SAME PAGE AS FASTJACK! :):):):):):):):) ^ :)
-Adam
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
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-
"Whoever said never trust a dragon obviously never met a politician."
-- Me, in 'Target: UCAS'
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Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 05:52:04 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Willpower & the Common Mage (was Re: [SR3] Combat Spells)
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> Totems choose their shaman for their own reasons, and I'd see Willpower as
> awfully low on that priority list. Personality would be foremost by far.
> Then perhaps destiny. Why bother taking some guy who happens to be
> strong-willed if he doesn't have a personality anywhere near that of the
> Totem? The guy'd never be able to use his magic anyway. If totems chose
> their shaman by willpower, every shaman would be an albino dwarf and no
> totem would ever think to pick a troll.
>
TopCat ^
Totems are part of the shaman, inseprable, the totem's personality IS
the shamans personality. (personalitys are somtimes surpresed though)
Caun :}
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<HTML>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<PRE>Totems choose their shaman for their own reasons, and I'd see Willpower as
awfully low on that priority list. Personality would be foremost by far.
Then perhaps destiny. Why bother taking some guy who happens to be
strong-willed if he doesn't have a personality anywhere near that of the
Totem? The guy'd never be able to use his magic anyway. If totems
chose
their shaman by willpower, every shaman would be an albino dwarf and no
totem would ever think to pick a troll.</PRE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
TopCat ^
<P>Totems are part of the shaman, inseprable, the totem's personality IS
the shamans personality. (personalitys are somtimes surpresed though)
<P>Caun :}</HTML>
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Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 05:02:12 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: [Admin] HTML Posting
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Caun Haskins, the copy of Netscape mail you're posting with is sending
stuff as HTML, please try to correct that problem. I think I saw one other
HTML post tonight, but it may have been on another list..
Anyways, not all email programs read HTML, and it takes extra time to load
into the ones that do, and its not nessesary, so, no HTML please :)
-Adam
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
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-
"Whoever said never trust a dragon obviously never met a politician."
-- Me, in 'Target: UCAS'
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 12:11:17 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Totems
In-Reply-To: <199707200815.BAA03330@****.parc.xerox.com> from "Benjamin"
at
Jul 20, 97 01:15:51 am
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|
|>Ok, that's all I can think of now... Granted, it doesn;t all make perfect
|>sense, and as I mentioned before, smacks of AD&D or other fantasy concpts
|>(If any of you have read some of the recent Raymond Feist novels, I'm
|>actually basing the idea on the concept of how their gods work. Don;t ask
|>me to explain, though. I can;t. :] )
|
|Actually, it sounds moslty like the Discworld model to me.
|
That's what I was thinking too....
BULL! If you haven't already, READ SMALL GODS!
You won't regret it.... :)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
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|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 12:14:50 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
In-Reply-To: <33C745DC.6D6BFAEC@*********.net> from "Deosyne" at Jul 12,
97 04:52:45 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|Hey kids, how's life? Had to do a brief stint in rehab for a bitty
|relapse of the Crystal Entity, but I'm back. Ditched the WebTV unit and
|finally assembled my 'puter, so g'head and bitch if the column width is
|off. :) I'll fix it. BTW Gurth: about time to change the block in yer
|sig; the geeks have probably found a way passed it. :) So what new toys
|have the lovely folks at FASA dropped out in the passed couple months;
|<hopeful>RBB2???</hopeful> One can dream.
How does Shadowrun 3rd Edition grab you?
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 12:18:30 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [Admin] HTML Posting
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970720050212.006db114@****.lis.ab.ca> from "Adam
J"
at Jul 20, 97 05:02:12 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|Caun Haskins, the copy of Netscape mail you're posting with is sending
|stuff as HTML, please try to correct that problem.
Good grief! And Ididn't spot it....
It looks like ELM might be learning to ignore that rubbish.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 05:31:55 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: [Admin] HTML Posting
In-Reply-To: <4780.199707201118@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:18 7/20/97 +0100, you wrote:
>|
>|Caun Haskins, the copy of Netscape mail you're posting with is sending
>|stuff as HTML, please try to correct that problem.
>
>Good grief! And Ididn't spot it....
>It looks like ELM might be learning to ignore that rubbish.....
I hope its being upgraded, and not just mutating on its own :)
I suppose that within the year, all mailers will be able to read and write
rtf formatted stuff.. :(
-Aj
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
GC3.1 GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
-
"Whoever said never trust a dragon obviously never met a politician."
-- Me, in 'Target: UCAS'
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 06:31:11 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: [Admin] HTML Posting
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Thanks for the notice, I didn't notice, my brother must have rest the
defaults! isn't family wonderful! Is this better?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 05:40:03 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: [Admin] HTML Posting
In-Reply-To: <33D0B37F.C1F848E9@*********.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:31 7/19/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Thanks for the notice, I didn't notice, my brother must have rest the
>defaults! isn't family wonderful!
NO <g>
>Is this better?
Yup, thanks :)
-Aj
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
GC3.1 GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
-
"Whoever said never trust a dragon obviously never met a politician."
-- Me, in 'Target: UCAS'
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 12:42:17 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [Admin] HTML Posting
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970720053155.006e38ac@****.lis.ab.ca> from "Adam
J"
at Jul 20, 97 05:31:55 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|I hope its being upgraded, and not just mutating on its own :)
|I suppose that within the year, all mailers will be able to read and write
|rtf formatted stuff.. :(
ELM is a pure, simple little mailer....
It CAN read mime, sometimes, when it feels like it.
I doubt anyone will put RTF treatment into it though, because it only links
in with text (ASCII ONLY) editors....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 06:56:12 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: [Admin] HTML Posting
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> isn't family wonderful!
>
> NO
>
Get a dictionary, look up RHETORICAL I believe that is one of the
examples!
It's a Webster standard by now!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 09:09:04 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: SPELL: Totemform
Comments: To: trrkt@******.com
In a message dated 97-07-19 15:09:19 EDT, trrkt@******.com (Mike (Leszek
Karlik)) writes:
>
> Drain: (F/2+1)S
> Target number: 6
> Duration: Sustained (the modifier for sustaining the spell is only +1
> instead of +2)
> Range: Personal only
> Effect: The spell works like the (Critter) Form spell from the
> Grimoire, allowing the caster to morph into one, predetermined animal
> (namely - your Totem animal). It's effects are similar to the
> Shapechange spell (shaman can cast spells in animal form, use
> critter's physical attributes plus one-half the casting successes and
> caster's mental attributes, the clothing and equipment does not
> change with the caster), but the modifier for sustaining the spell is
> only +1 instead of +2. Also, it allows the caster to mask the aura as
> an aura of the totem animal. It works as the initiate masking, but
> with one/half of the initiate's grade (round up).
>
Okay, this is good. I know of a particular shaman who definitely wants this
one. He's a Gargoyle Shaman, and it would simply make his day. The basic of
the spell is cool, and the +1 vs. +2 modifier for a specific category of
animal that is "Totem" oriented is okay I guess. As for the masking, hate to
say it, but the GM('s) in question tricked ya guy. Initiate Masking is
ALWAYS going. Now, what I think you may have been suggesting is that the
spell is incorporated into the shaman's initiated aura.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 09:12:35 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Shapers vs. Vampires (was: Re: Argh!!!) (yeah,
this is probably an old topic)
In a message dated 97-07-19 17:02:58 EDT, barbie@**********.COM writes:
>
> >-Canthros (one nice thing about shapeshifters: they don't get HMHVV,
> >AFAIK:)
>
> I strongly hope the can`t or my GM would surely try this to hurt me
anymore.
>
Hey Barbie, here's a nightmarish thought. Shapeshifter's in SR are more or
less like were's in other game systems, except for the Infection part.
Vampires in SR, at least when the game first started out, weren't however.
It's a disease, a physical one, that enacted the change. Now a shaper's
healing factor's are great against the physical wounds from attacks and the
like, but not those inflicted by disease and such. I would say be very glad
indeed.
-Keith (hey the stories of a the Vampire becoming a Wolf had to start
somewhere)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 09:16:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: SPELL: Totemform
Comments: To: trrkt@******.com
In a message dated 97-07-19 18:46:06 EDT, trrkt@******.com (Mike (Leszek
Karlik)) writes:
>
> Yes, but masking allows only to appear as a mundane human. An animal
> with a human aura in astral space is a pretty obvious give-away,
> isn't it? Now, think of the possibilities for the Rat shaman (you can
> spell-cast in the animal form, after all...).
>
>
Oops Mike, I get your point now. I still think for the drain you had to
keep, that the masking of the "animal/totem" form should be equal to the
initiates' own. I did see an advantage in the spell could easily exceed the
caster's own initiation level.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 09:17:15 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In a message dated 97-07-19 18:54:27 EDT, u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK (Spike)
writes:
> |--------------------------------------------------------
> |Nice people going to GenCon:
>
> ACK!
>
> Does <sob>
> Does this mean, I'll be all alone??? <sob>
>
>
Why no Spike, it mean's you'll be stuck with me...
-Keith
(EWG)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 14:51:57 -0700
Reply-To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: Orks & goblins
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> In Shadowrun, however, "ork" refers to Homo sapiens robustus, one of the
> four major human subspecies that appeared after the Awkening; "goblin,"
> however, is normally used to refer to Homo bestius, which are dwarfs
> infected with the Human-Metahuman Vampiric Virus, but still (according to
> the scientific name) human.
<gripe>
That's kind of funny. Vampires, Wendigos (hi Bull) and Banshees are
given completely different taxonomies, and the Dzoo-Noo-Qua of PANA are
homo saevitias. All are infected with the same virus, and none really
have the benefit of social acceptance.
But saying that they're another species instead of homo sapiens is a
little like calling AIDS victims homo HIVus... (and yes, I understand
the deep social commentary being made.)
-Matt
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:13:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In a message dated 97-07-20 02:09:39 EDT, chaos@*****.COM (Bull) writes:
>
> Tinner will be around, that sad sack... Every year we make plans to do
> Gen Con. and every year it falls thru. Well, we're finally doing it, and
> he can';t go...
>
> Well... At least he'll be around to Keep you company Spikey...;]
>
> Bull
>
Oh god, now Tinner...the things we could do to this list....
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:14:35 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
In a message dated 97-07-20 02:41:11 EDT, chaos@*****.COM (Bull) writes:
> >
> Not yet... i haven't actually turned INTO one yet... And hopefully I
> won;t. As it is, it's REALLY putting a crimp in my marriage...
Hey, maybe that Salonist would be a good idea after all. I mean, he can give
you lessons on how to part your new hair as it comes in all...
> And why should the smiley change? Wendigo's have tusks...:]
Yeah, really big tusks, big mean nasty teeth (down rabbit!!!)
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 22:44:26 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Totems
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970720023702.31afdee6@*****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 02:36 20/07/97 -0400, Bull wrote:
>What do you think Native American indians worshipped back a couple hundred
>years ago (and even today), if not the memory of the totems from the last
>age of magic?
Or maybe a tribal belief system with a strong basis in wisdom but with no
more basis in reality than the tooth fairy. :-) Ah - can I have a tooth
fairy shaman? Now what would my totem bonuses be?
<<snip>>
>3. When a large enough group of people start to believe in something (Or
>even a single person who believes strongly enough), like the Urban Gator
>Totem, then one of the Greater Spirits can latch on and form itself around
>this belief. The spirits grants power, but at the same time is shaped and
>formed (and confined) by this belief. Thus, while some of the Totems
>(suchs as the Native American Totems) have been around for thousand's of
>years, gator, Leviathan, and Elvis has only been around sicne the Awakening.
<<snip>>
>Ok, that's all I can think of now... Granted, it doesn;t all make perfect
>sense, and as I mentioned before, smacks of AD&D or other fantasy concpts
>(If any of you have read some of the recent Raymond Feist novels, I'm
>actually basing the idea on the concept of how their gods work. Don;t ask
>me to explain, though. I can;t. :] )
Yep. I've read this explanation for the origin of gods in both Raymond
Feist's Rift War books and in Terry Pratchett's 'Small Gods'.
My preference for totems, however, is that they only exist in and are
created in an age of magic. They are beings created in the metaplanes
through the mysteries of magic from the essence (spirit?) of belief and as
a focus of belief. While the age of magic lasts they exist and when the age
of magic dies so too do the totems truly die. As they are created by
belief, this belief defines their nature and powers, and also limits their
actions. They are nevertheless objectively independent beings with their
own, possibly unknowable, agenda.
For this reason, the way I prefer to view totemic 'choosing' is as more of
a resonance between the totem and a magically active person with a similar
nature. If the person is sensitive enough to be aware of this resonance and
acknowledges the link then they gain a spirit guide and a totem. I know -
very hermetic. :-)
I still haven't decided, though, whether or not totems are fully sentient
or are non-self aware metaplanar constructs of shamanic belief. ;->
Chris
_______________________________________________________________
Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:20:25 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In a message dated 97-07-20 00:59:22 EDT, bilbo@****.NWLINK.COM (Skye
Comstock) writes:
>
> No Money, No Go. I'd drive my '7 there, but it'd take forever
> and I'd have to steal gas... ;)
>
> -Skye
>
>
Hey Spike, our party's growing yet...
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 15:17:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
In-Reply-To: <33CF71FE.97A178DF@*********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <33CF71FE.97A178DF@*********.com>, Caun Haskins
<caun@*********.COM> rambled on endlessly about Dark Conspiracy (Was -
Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
>Wow, wait a minuit, are you telling me that at one time orks and goblins
>were thought of as the same thing!! I always thought of them as totaly
>diferent races, they are adn will always be in my head totaly different.
By the Tolkien mythology, which seems a strong influence in the fantasy
genre, orks are a race derived from Elves. They are in fact Sauron's
corruption created from his desire to become like the creator. He
used/uses Elves to create the Orks. Orks, however are more than capable
of breeding, and hence you get variations on the theme.
The Uruk Hai, were to all intents and pruposes the genetic masterpiece
of the Ork race, powerful, tough, intelligent and mean as hell. A true
opponent to the Elven nations.
>(I can't see the goblins in anybody's books the same as any oof my SR
>characters, That would just spoil my day!) Well I gues The Fantasy gener
>is still under construction, where will it go next? and we learn
>somthing new every day on the ShadowRN discusion group!
AD&D took Goblins and turned them into what were effectively
miniaturised Orks. However, they still ranked them into the "Giantish"
sub-class (IIRC)
--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:48:02 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Orks & goblins
Comments: To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
In a message dated 97-07-20 09:38:34 EDT, mbreton@**.netcom.com (Matb)
writes:
>
> But saying that they're another species instead of homo sapiens is a
> little like calling AIDS victims homo HIVus... (and yes, I understand
> the deep social commentary being made.)
>
>
That is good Matt, because those would have been major fighting words. Not
for myself, but those I've known.
On the other topic of Orc, Goblins, etc...has anyone come up with their own
home grown "ork" and "troll" variations that are NOT in the companion?
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 15:13:02 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970718221917.2faf8e5c@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <3.0.16.19970718221917.2faf8e5c@*****.com>, Bull
<chaos@*****.COM> rambled on endlessly about We Don't Need No Stinkin'
Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
>At 03:54 PM 7/18/97 -0700, Caric wrote these timeless words:
>>Avenger wrote:
>
>>> Fascinating, in five years of playing Shadowrun, none of my players have
>>> had characters, even the long term ones, anywhere near this Karma total.
>>> Boy am I going to lynched if they find out. :)
>>
>>Us either...I think I had the highest total ever with somewhere in the
>>neighborhood of 200.
>>
>Well... Consider this...
>
>We played AT LEAST twice a week for a year, and at least once a week the
>second year. Things have been a bit more sparse since then, but I'd have
>to say we've played something like over 100 game sessions in the last 4
>years with these characters. That averages out to 4 Karma a night, which
>sounds right on par...;]
My guys played every weekend, religiously up unitl just before Christmas
last year, Saturday nights were Shadowrun night, in preference to
anything else. At the moment we're playing every second weekend so that
those who have a life, can indulge in it. <scarey people - those who
have a life that is> :)
With the new characters, they've had three sessions now, and haven't
earned one Karma point yet. Hmm... maybe I'm just a stingy git. :) But
I don't feel like awarding Karma after every session, regardless of
whether the players feel they've earned it. Karma gets awarded at the
end of the "scenario/campaign", and it's not usually high, unless
they've had a _really_ tough time of it.
I think the highest Karma a character has had, is 182, and that was a
three year old once a week character.
--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:18:01 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
On Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:28:22 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>Spike said on 22:06/19 Jul 97...
>
>> |Nice people going to GenCon:
>>
>> ACK!
>>
>> Does <sob>
>> Does this mean, I'll be all alone??? <sob>
>>
>> <SOB>
>
>It looks like only us non-Americans will be left... You won't be alone,
>as a matter of fact it looks like we'll be rid of many of those
obnoxious
>Americans for a while ;)
:P~~~ HA! I'm staying ('course, that's cause i have no way of getting to
GenCon even if I had the money or time to do it...)
>BTW, since this started as a GenCon thing, who will be going to the
>European version?
Not me:)
--
-Canthros-the-obnoxious-American-shapeshifter-mage :)
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 16:38:43 -0700
Reply-To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: Orks & goblins
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> > But saying that they're another species instead of homo sapiens is a
> > little like calling AIDS victims homo HIVus... (and yes, I understand
> > the deep social commentary being made.)
> That is good Matt, because those would have been major fighting words. Not
> for myself, but those I've known.
Sorry if the "deep social commentary" sounded a little sarcastic; it was
anything but. I've found that, like metahumans, HMHVV can be used as a
way to talk about real-life issues without (necessarily) provoking
sensibilities.
(rambling personal recollection)
Back in high school, we had a small gaming group, maybe seven or eight
kids, the 'outcasts' of our very Jesuit high school. (We all happened
to be honor students, too. Funny, innit?) And one of the first things
that we noticed about SR was that vampires and wendigos /weren't/ orks
and humans, despite being called a "human subspecies" in the flavor
text. (Why were Wengigos the first thing we noticed? Color plates, my
friend.) Quite a few of us had oddball theories on it, but I can
remember the slightly shocked look on my good friend John's face.
John was the only gay person that I knew of in the school, and as far as
I knew, I was the only straight guy he had ever told. We were talking
later - we almost never talked about gaming outside of sessions - and he
told me that his lover (college guy, junior, forget his name) had been
diagnosed with AIDS. This was 1989, and while a few social institutions
were beginning to offer assistance, by and large the public opinion
seemed to be that if you got AIDS, you would die and *no one cared*. To
see something so extraordinarily similar made Shadowrun a *very* dark
future, for him.
Whew. Been a while since I went that deep into the memory vault. I'll
stop before I get carried away.
(/rambling personal recollection)
It is difficult to talk about some things, and, unfortunately (no slur
meant against you by-and-large very cool listmembers) I've often found
that a lot of gamers fall easily for some stereotypes... too much "us
v. them", I guess. Having seen ghouls and vampires used as pure evil in
some campaigns, I wanted to expose another possible side to the issue.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 17:29:31 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Shapers vs. Vampires (was: Re: Argh!!!) (yeah,
this is probabl
In-Reply-To: <970720091233_42267078@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 20-Jul-97 wrote J. Keith Henry:
>>
>Hey Barbie, here's a nightmarish thought. Shapeshifter's in SR are more or
>less like were's in other game systems, except for the Infection part.
> Vampires in SR, at least when the game first started out, weren't however.
> It's a disease, a physical one, that enacted the change. Now a shaper's
>healing factor's are great against the physical wounds from attacks and the
>like, but not those inflicted by disease and such. I would say be very glad
>indeed.
Oh shit. . . . . . .
glad none of the others of my group are on the list yet . . . so I feel a
little
bit save for know.
This would ruin my character utterly my since I`m awaiting a litter of five
and my sone-to-be husband is very creased about it.
He`s a elf after all. Remember the offsping question from me ???
Become a vampire too would definetly kick the character out of the game
without killing her. . . she would be way to powerfull too. . .
--
Barbie, the-panther-shapeshifter-phoenix-shaman
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 17:55:57 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Munchkin man
In-Reply-To: <199707200405.GAA13898@****.polbox.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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At 20-Jul-97 wrote Mike (Leszek Karlik):
MUNCHKIN ALARM TAKE COVER
>I've been reading through the Paranoid Animals of NA, and saw the
>Speed Samurai archetype...
Speed Samurai in the PnAoNA ??
How did you do that ??
>Now, think about that: a physical adept (or, better yet, physical
>mage) with at least 1st grade initation (so he can have the +2D6
>bioware and the max. adept initiative increase (+3D6) for IIRC 5
>magic points...). Now, that gives him a 6D6 initiative, but that's
>not all... Now, add an increase reflexes +3D6 spell, for a total of
>9D6 initiative. And now Critterform him into a tiger or a panther,
>for an additional 2D6 to initiative. Voila, a whopping 11D6
>initiative, for an average roll of 33, whitout counting the reaction.
>Make the critterform force 6, cast with 6 magic pool and 12 successes
>(Karma and Team Karma), that adds +6 to all physical attributes of
>the tiger, increasing the reaction by 3 (at least).
Take a shapshifter leopard or tiger physical shaman instead.
8d6 in humanform or 10 d6 in animal form.
If the GM allows you can even add a synaptic 2
going for 10d6/12d6
the only problen is the implantation of the BW and you should at least be an
initiate 2 to counter the magic loss..
>(I think I should be shot, to miminalize the suffering of my
>immediate entourage. Heh. :P )
Fire at will guys!!!!
>(Of course, one could say that in critterform, the bioware bonus does
>not apply... In that case, skip the critterform unless you want to
>engage in HTH, or rather HTP combat. Still, you've got yourself an
>adept with 9D6 initiative. Add the raise reaction power, raise
>attribute spells and you've got one fast fragger. Also, he should be
>rather high-graded init to mask all that Christmas lights, err..
>spell locks. :P Or, while we're at it, give the initiate physad a
>beta or delta-grade wired 3 instead of the bioware - if you allow
>spell and cyberware stacking. Which is not appilcable in any sane
>campaign...).
With the critterform spell you will loss the BW/CW effects.
And theres something beter to do than initiate to counter the magic loss
from implants with your karma. belive me I know.
BTW I go with 30 + 6d6 and a +15 from taccomp and since we have
a battleTAC link which adds another 10-20 (operator dependant).
i can savely say I`m real fast and the others are only 20 points behind me
:-)))
MUNCHKIN ALARM OVER ALL IS SAFE AGAIN
please keep your replay to field clear it makes live easier for us
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 18:08:10 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
In-Reply-To: <5k2g1EA+3h0zEwgQ@*******.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 20-Jul-97 wrote Avenger:
>By the Tolkien mythology, which seems a strong influence in the fantasy
>genre, orks are a race derived from Elves. They are in fact Sauron's
>corruption created from his desire to become like the creator. He
>used/uses Elves to create the Orks. Orks, however are more than capable
>of breeding, and hence you get variations on the theme.
Not truly wrong but not truly right.
Morgoth created the Orcs from the Elves trough genetic manipulation
of Elves .
See the Simarilion from JRR its covers the first ages and is written before
the LotR but published afterwards because all puplishers he contacted
doesn`t wanted the book because it was so dark.
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 12:17:02 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
On Saturday, July 19, 1997 20:33, Barbie[SMTP:barbie@**********.COM] wrote:
> At 18-Jul-97 wrote Caric:
>
>
> >Us either...I think I had the highest total ever with somewhere in the
> >neighborhood of 200.
>
> As I have mention at the beginning of the week I have just crossed
> 500 karma :-]
In may campaign, I have a few people close to the 300 mark, and one
approaching 400. OTOH, I have been running the same campaign for ~5 years,
with various players, and some of the PCs have retired for a while. Also,
if the player says "I don't know what to do with my karma," I reccommend
retirement for a while.
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 12:16:19 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkin man
In a message dated 97-07-20 12:00:23 EDT, barbie@**********.COM (Barbie)
writes:
>
>
> BTW I go with 30 + 6d6 and a +15 from taccomp and since we have
> a battleTAC link which adds another 10-20 (operator dependant).
> i can savely say I`m real fast and the others are only 20 points behind me
> :-)))
>
>
Uh, Barbie, how in the name of the ghost do you pull off a 30? I've seen the
17 to 21 on a "speed freak" but beyond that, I don't know. I'm muy
curiosantes...
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:27:28 +0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@*****.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In-Reply-To: <199707200926.LAA07192@*****.xs4all.nl>
On 20 Jul 97 at 11:28, Gurth wrote:
> It looks like only us non-Americans will be left... You won't be
> alone, as a matter of fact it looks like we'll be rid of many of
> those obnoxious Americans for a while ;)
Well, not exactly. This obnoxious American will still be around. And
I think Bull said Tinner will not be going either....
Sorry, guys. :)
--
===DREKHEAD==================================drekhead@***.net====
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
=================================================================
Diplomacy - the art of letting someone have your way.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 12:37:11 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Well, not exactly. This obnoxious American will still be around. And
> I think Bull said Tinner will not be going either....
Nope, that nasty job thing is going to interfere. :-(
However, I'm making Bull take a totemic/voodoo totem of me to carry around
so that I can enjoy the con vicariously! ;-)
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:44:58 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: [Admin] HTML Posting
In-Reply-To: <4821.199707201142@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:42 PM 7/20/97 +0100, you wrote:
#|I hope its being upgraded, and not just mutating on its own :)
#|I suppose that within the year, all mailers will be able to read and write
#|rtf formatted stuff.. :(
#
#ELM is a pure, simple little mailer....
#It CAN read mime, sometimes, when it feels like it.
#I doubt anyone will put RTF treatment into it though, because it only links
#in with text (ASCII ONLY) editors....
Well, if your .mailcap is setup correctly AND you are using an x server,
you already can read rtf files with elm, spawning an RTF viewer, instead of
more or less.
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 21:25:43 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkin man
In-Reply-To: <yam7140.2885.136475920@****.amigaworld.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hmmm...
> MUNCHKIN ALARM TAKE COVER
<wide, sheepish grin>
(or is that carpish grin?)
> >I've been reading through the Paranoid Animals of NA, and saw the
> >Speed Samurai archetype...
>
> Speed Samurai in the PnAoNA ??
> How did you do that ??
OK, so maybe it was in some other Plastic Warriors... I've read
through all of them in one night, so I could have made a mistake...
<munchkin example shown cloaked>
> Take a shapshifter leopard or tiger physical shaman instead.
> 8d6 in humanform or 10 d6 in animal form.
> If the GM allows you can even add a synaptic 2
> going for 10d6/12d6
> the only problen is the implantation of the BW and you should at least be an
> initiate 2 to counter the magic loss..
Damn. I know I SHOULD have persuaded my GM to get that SR Companion
through mail order, not matter what the cost. :>
I wonder when will it be available in here...
> >(I think I should be shot, to miminalize the suffering of my
> >immediate entourage. Heh. :P )
>
> Fire at will guys!!!!
Thwapthwapthwapthwap. <click>
Oh well...
<FZOOK>
.
> >spell locks. :P Or, while we're at it, give the initiate physad a
> >beta or delta-grade wired 3 instead of the bioware - if you allow
> >spell and cyberware stacking. Which is not appilcable in any sane
> >campaign...).
>
> With the critterform spell you will loss the BW/CW effects.
> And theres something beter to do than initiate to counter the magic loss
> from implants with your karma. belive me I know.
Yep. I know it too, but this was about speed, not other abilities...
> BTW I go with 30 + 6d6 and a +15 from taccomp and since we have
> a battleTAC link which adds another 10-20 (operator dependant).
> i can savely say I`m real fast and the others are only 20 points behind me
> :-)))
<GRIN>
Ever seen an Order of CuChullain physical adept with bioware, taccomp
and 2,5 point in enhanced senses? :P
> MUNCHKIN ALARM OVER ALL IS SAFE AGAIN
>
> please keep your replay to field clear it makes live easier for us
I did... (Well, now I did for sure...)
Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
Cyclist have it between their legs.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 21:25:43 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Bows and crossbows
In-Reply-To: <199707200926.LAA07199@*****.xs4all.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Hmmm...
> > So, I came up with this simple solution: make the readying of a bow
> > a free action (though I think this would require easy acces to
> > arrows, like stuck in the ground before you, or in a quiver on your
> > hip). This way, you get 3 shots from a bow each 2 combat phases,
> > whereas you get 2 shots from a crossbow each 2 combat rounds.
>
> Erm... What exactly do you mean by "readying" a bow? Putting an arrow on
> the bow? Drawing the string back so you can shoot the weapon? That'd mean
I think it would be just the nocking of the bow... Now, drawing it is
done when you shoot - draw and loose...
> you can shoot the bow once per Combat Phase: you have to spend a Free
> Action to "ready" it, and then a Simple Action to shoot, if I read you
Free action to ready it, simple to shoot, simple to ready (next
phase)
simple to shoot, free to ready, simple to shoot. (next phase)
> correctly. *waits for Dvixen to point out the proper archery terms :) *
> I have a feeling I'm not quite on the same wavelength as you are, though,
> since it looks to me like you still have the same ROF as a crossbow.
See above...
> > I also hope this is not one of the "once a week" topics on this
> > list... (It was not in the FAQ, anyway)...
>
> Not exactly, it may have been brought up before (there's a big chance of
> that) but definitely not on any regular basis, unlike several other
> topics.
> > Oh, yeah, the newbie intro (I hate that part):
>
> Welcome to the list :)
Thanks... :>
> > My main complaint is that I have only one A category... This creation
> > system is Dumb.
>
> Use the optional "add to 10" system from the Companion, then. That way you
> can get two A priorities plus three E's :)
a) I have no Companion :(
b) I don't need no steenkin A's! :P I was just kidding...
Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
Nothing succeeds like a parrot.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 15:27:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Totems
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:11 PM 7/20/97 +0100, Spike wrote these timeless words:
>|
>|>Ok, that's all I can think of now... Granted, it doesn;t all make perfect
>|>sense, and as I mentioned before, smacks of AD&D or other fantasy concpts
>|>(If any of you have read some of the recent Raymond Feist novels, I'm
>|>actually basing the idea on the concept of how their gods work. Don;t ask
>|>me to explain, though. I can;t. :] )
>|
>|Actually, it sounds moslty like the Discworld model to me.
>|
>That's what I was thinking too....
>BULL! If you haven't already, READ SMALL GODS!
>You won't regret it.... :)
>
YOu know, Ever since I joined this list you guys have talked about the
Discworld books... But for the life of me I can't find them anywhere! The
only Discworld anything I'd seen or heard of before joining the list was
the video game...
Hmmm... Maybe time to order some books?
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 21:25:43 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkin man :P
In-Reply-To: <199707200926.LAA07195@*****.xs4all.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Hmmm...
<an example of munchkinism snipped>
> There are several problems with the character you're talking about. First
> and foremost, he/she CANNOT be made as a starting character, unless for
> some reason your GM allows you to use Force Points for initiations (which
> I definitely don't).
Yes, I know... However, you could then give him a +2D6 initiative
physad ability... Or just don't give him bioware...
> Second, and this uses a ruling by Tom Dowd that you probably aren't aware
> of and which some people might heavily dispute (MC23, keep quiet, OK? :)
> namely that only the highest initiative boost applies. That means your
> character would have only +3D6, not +11D6.
Well, I don't know about this one... But since DLoH said so... (Exar
Kun anyone?)
Mike (Leszek Karlik): http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike/index.htm
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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M- V? PS+(+++) PE Y PGP- !t--- 5+(-) X>+ R++>+++$ tv- b++++ DI? D+ G-- e h--*!
!r-- y-*
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 07:57:17 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Orks & goblins
In-Reply-To: <33D136FD.23CC@**.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Mat, your mailer's overriding the reply-to the list again...
> <gripe>
> That's kind of funny. Vampires, Wendigos (hi Bull) and Banshees are
Ohhhhh... you're mean. :)
> But saying that they're another species instead of homo sapiens is a
> little like calling AIDS victims homo HIVus... (and yes, I understand
> the deep social commentary being made.)
Hmmm... I don't think so. HIV/AIDS just screws your life up and
generally makes you die early, to put it at its bluntest. (Actually,
IIRC AIDS just buggers up your immune system so you die from something
normally harmless - AIDS doesn't even kill you itself. Or am I wrong
again?)
HMHVV, on the other hand, changes you into a completely different
LIFEFORM! HMHVV infected people get really funky powers and
corresponding weaknesses - since when are AIDS victims (or VITAS victims
if you want to keep it SRish) able to Essence Drain? :)
VITAS to me is the SR equivalent of AIDS - HMHVV is VERY different.
Lady Jestyr
----------------------------------------------------
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota
monax materiam possit materiari?
----------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 17:48:30 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Munchkin man :P
In-Reply-To: <199707200931.DAA18456@******> from "Gurth" at Jul 20,
97 11:28:23 am
Content-Type: text
Gurth wrote:
|
| The original Speed Sam was designed about a year before Cybertechnology
| came out; a few months ago I upgraded him. If you want to I'll send you a
| copy privately, since most subscribers to the list will have seen him
| before.
But, the last version you sent to the list had an error, and you
never sent the corrected version :)
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 17:51:07 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In-Reply-To: <199707200927.DAA18425@******> from "Gurth" at Jul 20,
97 11:28:22 am
Content-Type: text
Gurth wrote:
|
| Spike said on 22:06/19 Jul 97...
|
| > |Nice people going to GenCon:
| >
| > ACK!
| >
| > Does <sob>
| > Does this mean, I'll be all alone??? <sob>
| >
| > <SOB>
|
| It looks like only us non-Americans will be left... You won't be alone,
| as a matter of fact it looks like we'll be rid of many of those obnoxious
| Americans for a while ;)
Nope, sorry, I'll be here. And I'm gonna be as obnoxious as hell ;)
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 17:53:38 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Question concerning movement
In-Reply-To: <199707200050.SAA03533@******> from "Mike" at Jul 20,
97 02:51:50 am
Content-Type: text
Mike wrote:
|
| "Characters who have multiple Actions may run only in one of those
| Combat Phases, but it does not matter which."
Yep, that's what it says.
| Does this make sense?
|
| Nope. (Run walk walk, walk run walk, walk walk run... Kinda stupid,
| isn't it?)
|
| So, what do you think about it?
I'm fine with it. If it was run, run, run, then that would be way to much
of a bonus for enhanced character, IMO.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 18:06:28 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Bows and crossbows
In-Reply-To: <199707200013.SAA29732@******> from "Mike" at Jul 20,
97 02:13:38 am
Content-Type: text
Mike wrote:
|
| when reviewing the SR rules concerning archery, I saw that bows were
| severely shortchanged in comparison to crossbows.
| I am talking about the rate of fire, which is the same in both cases
| (simple action to ready and simple action to shoot). This is
| ludicrous. After all, the main advantage of the bow was it's high
| rate of fire...
Um, no. The advantage of a crossbow is that just about anyone can use it.
Bows require a fair ammount of strength and training.
| So, I came up with this simple solution: make the readying of a bow
| a free action (though I think this would require easy acces to
| arrows, like stuck in the ground before you, or in a quiver on your
| hip).
I disagree. "Free actions are relatively simple, nearly automatic
actions that require little or no effort to accomplish." Picking up
an arrow is pretty easy, but nocking(sp?) the thing requires some
concentration (I have a fair ammount of RL experience on this one).
| Maybe make readying a crossbow a complex action,
"A Complex Action requires the most intense concentration of all the
possible action types." IMO, readying a crossbow doesn't fit into
this category. It's the reverse of readying a bow, pull back the
line, load the bolt, and you're ready to go.
| I also hope this is not one of the "once a week" topics on this
| list... (It was not in the FAQ, anyway)...
Naw, this one only comes up about once a year :)
[snip: 19/19/19 Drow Fighter/Mage/Cleric. What's a munchkin?]
| <grin, duck & run>
Gah! ;)
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 18:08:34 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Lotsa Karma
In-Reply-To: <199707182306.RAA15487@******> from "Caric" at Jul 18,
97 03:54:17 pm
Content-Type: text
Caric wrote:
|
| > Fascinating, in five years of playing Shadowrun, none of my players have
| > had characters, even the long term ones, anywhere near this Karma total.
| > Boy am I going to lynched if they find out. :)
|
| Us either...I think I had the highest total ever with somewhere in the
| neighborhood of 200.
It helps when the GM is handing out too much karma :( I just read
the karma rules again and found out I misread something <sigh>.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 22:37:13 +0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@*****.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Orks & goblins
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970721075308.1746A-100000@*******.dialix.com.au>
On 21 Jul 97 at 7:57, Lady Jestyr wrote:
> Hmmm... I don't think so. HIV/AIDS just screws your life up and
> generally makes you die early, to put it at its bluntest. (Actually,
> IIRC AIDS just buggers up your immune system so you die from
> something normally harmless - AIDS doesn't even kill you itself. Or
> am I wrong again?)
No, that's correct. It destroys your immune system, so you generally
die from something else.
> HMHVV, on the other hand, changes you into a completely different
> LIFEFORM! HMHVV infected people get really funky powers and
> corresponding weaknesses - since when are AIDS victims (or VITAS
> victims if you want to keep it SRish) able to Essence Drain? :)
>
> VITAS to me is the SR equivalent of AIDS - HMHVV is VERY different.
That is why the different scientific classifications of the infected
species. They ARE a different species. HMHVV actually alters the
whole DNA, and mutates the whole organism, rather than specific cells
like most virii.
--
===DREKHEAD==================================drekhead@***.net====
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
=================================================================
If at first you DO succeed, try not to look astonished!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 04:51:35 -0700
Reply-To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: Orks & goblins
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> > HMHVV, on the other hand, changes you into a completely different
> > LIFEFORM! HMHVV infected people get really funky powers and
> > corresponding weaknesses - since when are AIDS victims (or VITAS
> > victims if you want to keep it SRish) able to Essence Drain? :)
> > VITAS to me is the SR equivalent of AIDS - HMHVV is VERY different.
> That is why the different scientific classifications of the infected
> species. They ARE a different species. HMHVV actually alters the
> whole DNA, and mutates the whole organism, rather than specific cells
> like most virii.
Can't agree, mostly because SR disagrees with itself. Vampires,
Wendigos and Banshees are given different taxonomies than Dzoo-noo-quah
and the whatevers Gurth mentioned (man, my memory's short), the latter
two being taxonomied as homo (species), whereas the Vampires et al are
distinctly called "human subspecies" in the flavor text. To resound the
refrain: catching a virus (no matter its effects) doesn't qualify one
into a new species. (Unless you really want to broaden the definition
pass the scientific view. Do mages count as their own species too?)
I don't buy any of it (g), considering the taxonomies to be bungled by
uncertainty and politics. But it makes for great coffee talk...
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 20:41:39 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Dragons at the end of an age
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---"J. Keith Henry" wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-07-18 01:27:18 EDT, daddyjim@**********.COM
(Loki)
> writes:
>
> M
> e
> r
> c
> u
> r
> i
> a
> l
>
> S
> p
> o
> i
> l
> e
> r
> s
>
> f
> o
> r
>
> t
> h
> e
>
> U
> l
> t
> r
> a
>
> S
> e
> n
> s
> i
> t
> i
> v
> e
>
> >
> > Now, Perianwyr isn't a great dragon so this would seem to imply
that
> > both great and lesser dragons both go into a sleep or stasis
during
> > times of low/no mana.
> >
> Okay, now I admit that it was 7 years ago (6?), but I recall
Perianwyr being
> a Great Western Dragon.
Nope. He's in "Maria Mercurial" and "A Killing Glare" and in both he's
just your run of the mill (run of the mill?) dragon. You couldn't
really picture a Great Dragon chummin' round with Kyle and working as
a wetwork specialist for Aztechnology, could you? :o)
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 04:02:35 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Munchkin man
In-Reply-To: <199707201921.VAA28836@****.polbox.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
At 20-Jul-97 wrote Mike (Leszek Karlik):
>Damn. I know I SHOULD have persuaded my GM to get that SR Companion
>through mail order, not matter what the cost. :>
>I wonder when will it be available in here...
The companion is nice but the official rule about the shapeshifter are re=
aly
§$%$(/%$$%&/&/( we ditched them in the first second.
>Yep. I know it too, but this was about speed, not other abilities...
But speed alone is not enough to consider, always take care of the
larger picture.
>Ever seen an Order of CuChullain physical adept with bioware, taccomp
>and 2,5 point in enhanced senses? :P
Yup, he was dead before his turn came.
-- =
Barbie
==========================
==========================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==========================
==========================
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 04:37:12 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Munchkin man
In-Reply-To: <970720120709_377369366@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 20-Jul-97 wrote J. Keith Henry:
>Uh, Barbie, how in the name of the ghost do you pull off a 30? I've seen the
>17 to 21 on a "speed freak" but beyond that, I don't know. I'm muy
>curiosantes...
Ok, Keith just for your curiosity:
First its in animal form :-)
18 from attributes
3 lightning reflexes
6 reaction enhancer
1 enhanced atriculation
2 from the shapeshifter
In human form the last one doesn`t count so its 28.
To clear things even more we don`t use the silly compainon rules for
shapeshifter.
We have revers engineered the npc stats for them.
Mainly because the compainon was not on the horizon when we needed shapeshifer
rules.
And normaly our shapshifter can`t get implantes but this character is special
she is not born as animal. She became a shapeshifter because the GM used her
for a guinea pig after she had all the implants. From that point on her live
was realy
hard, today she had barly controll over her new powers.
Another special rule is that when you become something with regeneration
or shapealtering powers AFTER you had some implantes they stay within your
body but its not possible to alter some of the implats after that through
operations or so
they can only be damaged but not repaired anymore.
So in the long run it doesn`t count.
I can`t even get rid of my cortexbombs<sigh>
And if someone discovers that I`m a shapshifter I will be in deep deep shit.
Since that special case had happened only once in five years and until today
noone of my group had tried to misuse these rules, it worked for us.
Hope this makes things clearer.
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 04:13:37 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Bows and crossbows
In-Reply-To: <199707210006.SAA27872@******>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 20-Jul-97 wrote David Buehrer:
>| Maybe make readying a crossbow a complex action,
>"A Complex Action requires the most intense concentration of all the
>possible action types." IMO, readying a crossbow doesn't fit into
>this category. It's the reverse of readying a bow, pull back the
>line, load the bolt, and you're ready to go.
I think a complex action is not only defined by the concentration
you need but its also a matter of time which you need to do something.
And readying a crossbow takes longer than a bow, especialy for the
heavier ones. So I thing a complex action is OK.
And after your course of action it would be two simples so no real difference.
A bow would be faster because you pull the string back with the arrow.
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 01:53:07 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Deosyne <deosyne@*********.NET>
Organization: The War Machine
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Spike wrote:
>
> |<snip my post>
>
> How does Shadowrun 3rd Edition grab you?
> --
>
Like vice grips to the genital region. Now I'll have to learn to convert
1st Ed. to 3rd! Maybe I'll give in this time and just buy the damn 3rd
<grumble>. So what's the deal this time, they merging 2nd ed. sourcebook
with the companion and choice goodies from the supplements, or are they
shooting for an overhaul of the system? (Mike, you still around? :)
Deosyne
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 01:44:13 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Bows and crossbows
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
David wrote:
I disagree. "Free actions are relatively simple, nearly automatic
actions that require little or no effort to accomplish." Picking up
an arrow is pretty easy, but nocking(sp?) the thing requires some
concentration (I have a fair ammount of RL experience on this one).
Wrong! (no offense) but knocking an arrow is natural, I have some
experience in archery (won a couple kid tourneys) I don't know the SR
equivenenlt of the skill level (maybe 4/5) at that level maybe lower It
defiantly should be a free action!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:48:59 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "SHANE J. WINZAR" <s702399@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Mana Storms?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I've been reading source material for adventures based in
Australia and come across the term 'Mana Storm'...what are they, I've
never heard of them before and I've read most of the Fasa books, have
they been made up by someone? anyway what are they and what sort of
damage do they do etc,
Thanx in advance, Tamino
Shane Winzar aka Tamino
s702399@*******.gu.edu.au Student of Information Tech.
'Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most.'
-Ozzi (sp?) Osbourne and lately Cereal Killer, Hackers.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:17:13 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Designs [was: Re: We Don't Need No
Stinkin'Munchies!!!]
In-Reply-To:
<c=US%a=_%pÞSHAW%l=MSBOSTON1-970717225226Z-10134@*********.boston.deshaw.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In message <c=US%a=_%pÞSHAW%l=MSBOSTON1-970717225226Z-10134@*********.
boston.deshaw.com>, "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM> writes
>Top Cat ranted, standing upon podium, beating chest:
>> Design the campaign, work with the players to get the characters to
>>mesh,
>>then go from there... formula for a perfect campaign.
>>
>>To which Kohl replys:
>> Okay! First off, I've got to say, TopCat, you bring a whole new meaning
>>to GM fasism!
>> Design the campaign, design out the characters, dictate who goes and
>>knows where and what? Why don't you just play all the PCs and NPCs yourself?
>> The whole point of the game is to allow the players to run a character
>>they LIKE to run, WITHIN REASON. NOT dictate to them what they can and cannot
>>have or do!
I tend towards TopCat's position here. I don't think he hands out
character sheets and says "play this or else": if I were joining his
game I guess I'd describe what I wanted to play, and then he and I would
negotiate how to achieve it.
Bob seems to favour small guns: fine, we'll discuss that. Maybe in my
last game SMGs were fairly common: but playing with TopCat they're heavy
artillery and all my PC needs is a pistol or a Defiance T-250.
I don't see that as fascism, I see it as a GM helping his players to
enjoy the campaign better.
--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:12:09 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: question
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970718113442.006d67c4@****.lis.ab.ca>
HI!
Just one simple, not too important question to all those who play
shadowrun regularly...
What If a player is missing at one session? Do you let another one
play his character? Or do you think of a way to let the character
disappear for some time?
If somebody else plays the character, aren't ther problems with the
stats since the character sheet in question should be missing as
well?
Ok, I'ts really not too important, but anyway, Id like to know how
others play...
ss
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:17:39 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <232DA9B56D3@********.uibk.ac.at>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> If somebody else plays the character, aren't ther problems with the
> stats since the character sheet in question should be missing as
> well?
We generally either leave them out if they weren't essential to the
plotline or we're in a bad mood. :) If we need their character, someone
else generally plays the character. E.g. my boyfriend sometimes has to
work weekends; thus I take his character sheet to the game session and
play two deckers instead of one :)
Lady Jestyr
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:19:50 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <232DA9B56D3@********.uibk.ac.at>
Hi!
Did you ever notice that in shadowrun unarmed combat the fight is
over after 5 seconds... the one who scores the first hit wins the
fight since with the higher target number due to the injury, the
other one stands no chance... so what does the smart player? through
anything he has... all the pools, combat and karma, into the first
attack... then he either has won or lost... its all over after the
first combat turn. Really makes me sick...
In order to develope a cool fistfight that lasts for a few minutes, I
have to break the rules several times.
Does anyone out there know a solution/does anyone share the same
experiences? If not, why not?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:22:40 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970721181619.14208A-100000@*******.dialix.com.au>
> We generally either leave them out if they weren't essential to the
> plotline or we're in a bad mood.
>
> Lady Jestyr
You leave them out even if the character didn't have time to leave?
So he just disappears sometimes and reappears later? Well, thats the
easiest sulution, but the least satisfying one.
ss
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 03:26:47 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: question
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Personaly I wouldn't let anybody else play my character and I would not
enjoy playing sombody elses, this is just my opinion but I think that
it's kinda cheap and that it messes up characters to let multiple people
play them (playing styles differ), We tryed it once, not exactly what
your saying but we made a ":group character" that we took turns playing,
It realy didn't work out nor did it enhance out role playing enjoyment,
O~well another good Idea down the drain.
I think the GM or better yet the players, should find a way to have him
not here at the time, It just makes sense to me.
Here's a question I want to through out, Do you PCs play multiple
characters? or just one? I was in a small group once and each person
played at leas 2 sometimes up to 6 players, I think It got confusing
real quick. What do you guys think and or do?
Thankx
Caun :}
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:27:42 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <23307B207E1@********.uibk.ac.at>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> > We generally either leave them out if they weren't essential to the
> > plotline or we're in a bad mood.
>
> You leave them out even if the character didn't have time to leave?
> So he just disappears sometimes and reappears later? Well, thats the
> easiest sulution, but the least satisfying one.
If the character in question is in the middle of a scene where there's
no way his/her absence can be logically explained, then I'd say that's
essential to the plotline. :)
EG. if we're in the middle of a blazing gunfight, he stays - but
generally gets ignored by the GM unless we have the character sheet
there. If we're doing a surveillance he goes - just nipped out to meet a
contact, or whatever...
Lady Jestyr
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
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Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
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Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 03:37:58 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: question
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> You leave them out even if the character didn't have time to leave?
> So he just disappears sometimes and reappears later? Well, thats the
> easiest sulution, but the least satisfying one.
>
In our sessions there is usually a small time in game time between
playing, just write a story of why he's not there ie. captured by
sombody, family crisis,whatever. If you know somone is going to be gone
in advance GM could design a campain/senerio about him/her being
captuerd for ransom and you have to get him back or some such It's
actualy quite fun resquing you chummers instead of some wage slave
wackout!You should try it somtime! you'll enjoy it!
Caun :}
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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 04:36:23 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: question
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At 10:12 AM 7/21/97 +0100, Simon T. Sailer wrote these timeless words:
>HI!
>Just one simple, not too important question to all those who play
>shadowrun regularly...
>What If a player is missing at one session? Do you let another one
>play his character? Or do you think of a way to let the character
>disappear for some time?
>
Well, with my group, it seems to be really hard to get everyone together
everytime, so quite often we have someone missing between games.
This isn;t too big a problem, as usually we manage to wap up a night's game
session in a spot where everyone has seperated, or could seperate. So if
someone is missing for the next adventure, the could be sick, getting a
"tune up" (if they're a chrome job), or "communing with the spirits"
(I
have a Shaman and a Physical Shaman, so...:)), or whetever.
SOmetimes, we end thigs in a spot that's impossible to get in and out of.
Currently, my players are crawling around inside an Ant Hive. If something
happens and I have an Extra Player, or am missing one, well... The laws of
physics, and the previous story, can be altered...:]
>If somebody else plays the character, aren't ther problems with the
>stats since the character sheet in question should be missing as
>well?
>
Well... A lot of GM's keep a copy of their players Character Sheets, or
even hold on to the sheet so that theirs no cheating between games. In
this case, another player could play the char (though usually I won't allow
this), or the missing character can be an NPC for the night, run by the GM...
>Ok, I'ts really not too important, but anyway, Id like to know how
>others play...
>
> ss
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:41:30 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <33D1DC6F.34F204CB@*********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> In our sessions there is usually a small time in game time between
> playing, just write a story of why he's not there ie. captured by
> sombody, family crisis,whatever. If you know somone is going to be gone
Often our sessions break off in the middle of adventures - it's a bit
hard to explain why Fred suddenly just "vanished" before your eyes...
> in advance GM could design a campain/senerio about him/her being
> captuerd for ransom and you have to get him back or some such It's
> actualy quite fun resquing you chummers instead of some wage slave
> wackout!You should try it somtime! you'll enjoy it!
Tried it. Never again... it messes with your head when your character's
best friend doesn't recognise any of his buddies and thinks they're
trying to hurt him. Brainwashing is bad.
Lady Jestyr
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 04:44:18 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
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At 10:19 AM 7/21/97 +0100, Simon T. Sailer wrote these timeless words:
>Hi!
>Did you ever notice that in shadowrun unarmed combat the fight is
>over after 5 seconds... the one who scores the first hit wins the
>fight since with the higher target number due to the injury, the
>other one stands no chance... so what does the smart player? through
>anything he has... all the pools, combat and karma, into the first
>attack... then he either has won or lost... its all over after the
>first combat turn. Really makes me sick...
>In order to develope a cool fistfight that lasts for a few minutes, I
>have to break the rules several times.
>Does anyone out there know a solution/does anyone share the same
>experiences? If not, why not?
>
Roleplay out combat, making the players tell exactly what they're doing,
and determine the outcome that way... That's probably the only way to do
it without completely coming up with a new set of combat rules...
Also, I have strentched out the "Combat Round" more than the 3-5 seconds
that are supposed to elapse. tehre are simply too many things that happen
in the normal turn, and I still imagine my fight scenes as cinimatic in
nature. Lots of bullets flying that never hit anyone, and hand to hand
combat that involves a lot of attacks and parries before anyone hits. That
sort of thing... So I stretch each round out to anywhere from 10 seconds
to 30 seconds, dependiong on how much happens in a single turn.
Also, I don;t keep track of ammo, and don;t make my players do that either,
except in extreme situations... Thus going for the John Woo Automatic
Reloads in less than a second...;]
Bull-who-plays-fast-and-loose-with-rules-quite-often-for-the-sake-of-trhe-story
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 04:44:21 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Playing Multiple Charactrs (was Re: question)
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 03:26 AM 7/20/97 -0600, Caun Haskins wrote these timeless words:
>Here's a question I want to through out, Do you PCs play multiple
>characters? or just one? I was in a small group once and each person
>played at leas 2 sometimes up to 6 players, I think It got confusing
>real quick. What do you guys think and or do?
>
Well... I've never done it with Shadowrun, though I would let (if we were
ever short of players) my guys play up to 2 characters, max... Of course,
I _LIKE_ a small group (my ideal group is 4, one from each major group).
Of course, I never really have a shortage of players. I have too many,
ocaasionally... Of course, if we're talking GOOD players... that's
another subject. I have maybe 2 or 3...;]
We did do this in D&D WAAAAYYYYY back when... When only me, and my little
brother, and my one cousin was playing. I think I usually played 2
characters,,,;]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 03:56:16 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: question
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> Brainwashing is bad.
>
Copy that! (a bit OT though) i realy wasn't talking about that.
Bull's idea of NPC ing them works ok as well, still think getting rid
of them for this session is bes though.
brains are terible things to mess with I rely dislike that false memory
spell in the hands of Johnson, that sucks!
Caun :}
P.S. hey Bull when do you sleep? I don't think you ever stop posting,
just wondering.
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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:01:18 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Munchkin man
In-Reply-To: <yam7140.2885.136475920@****.amigaworld.com>
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Barbie said on 17:55/20 Jul 97...
> >I've been reading through the Paranoid Animals of NA, and saw the
> >Speed Samurai archetype...
>
> Speed Samurai in the PnAoNA ??
> How did you do that ??
ParaNOID, not ParaNORMAL. Available from my WWW page, if you have the time
and inclination to download about 2 MB. Everybody seems to think the pics
on the back are a joke about CCGs, but they're not...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:56:05 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In-Reply-To: <970720091715_-1157897529@*******.mail.aol.com> from "J. Keith
Henry" at Jul 20, 97 09:17:15 am
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|Why no Spike, it mean's you'll be stuck with me...
|-Keith
AAAAAARGH!!!
:)
Hey Gurth! Where IS EuroGencon?????
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:08:44 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [Admin] HTML Posting
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970720114458.007ae240@***.iquest.net> from
"Jaymz" at
Jul 20, 97 11:44:58 am
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|Well, if your .mailcap is setup correctly AND you are using an x server,
|you already can read rtf files with elm, spawning an RTF viewer, instead of
|more or less.
Oh, it spawns RTF viewers. That's how come I can read mail, but I doubt
anyone will EVER make it SEND RTF.... That's what I meant....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:10:45 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Munchkin man
In-Reply-To: <199707201921.VAA28836@****.polbox.pl> from "Mike" at Jul
20,
97 09:25:43 pm
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|> Speed Samurai in the PnAoNA ??
|> How did you do that ??
|
|OK, so maybe it was in some other Plastic Warriors... I've read
|through all of them in one night, so I could have made a mistake...
I should hope so. PNAoNA is genuine FASA, not plastic warriors....
Or did you mean PARANOID animals of north america?????
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:13:32 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Totems
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970720151701.368f7be6@*****.com> from "Bull" at
Jul 20,
97 03:27:01 pm
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|YOu know, Ever since I joined this list you guys have talked about the
|Discworld books... But for the life of me I can't find them anywhere! The
|only Discworld anything I'd seen or heard of before joining the list was
|the video game...
|
|Hmmm... Maybe time to order some books?
One word.... Yes!
If you want to get them in the correct order, it's:
The Colour of Magic, The Light Fantastic, Equal Rites, Mort, Wyrd Sisters
(now a Channel 4 cartoon ;) ), errrr.... HELP.... There're so many I've
forgotten the order......
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:22:32 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
In-Reply-To: <33C86D43.77F394BC@*********.net>
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Deosyne said on 1:53/13 Jul 97...
Has anyone told you your system clock is a week behind?
> Like vice grips to the genital region. Now I'll have to learn to convert
> 1st Ed. to 3rd! Maybe I'll give in this time and just buy the damn 3rd
> <grumble>. So what's the deal this time, they merging 2nd ed. sourcebook
> with the companion and choice goodies from the supplements, or are they
> shooting for an overhaul of the system? (Mike, you still around? :)
FASAMike no longer subscribes because he's apparently too busy with other
things (since they're most likely Shadowrun-related, I guess he can be
forgiven :) but it looks like SR3 will do to SR2 what SR2 did to SR1 --
attempt to streamline the system, and add in major rules changes like VR
2.0 and RBB2 (which will be out this autumn).
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:22:33 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Munchkin man :P
In-Reply-To: <199707201921.VAA28671@****.polbox.pl>
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Mike (Leszek Karlik) said on 21:25/20 Jul 97...
> Yes, I know... However, you could then give him a +2D6 initiative
> physad ability... Or just don't give him bioware...
I'll probably, when I have nothing better to do, try to design as fast as
possible a character who _doesn't_ use cyberware, and see how that
compares to the speed sam.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:22:33 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Viral diseases
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970721075308.1746A-100000@*******.dialix.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Lady Jestyr said on 7:57/21 Jul 97...
> Hmmm... I don't think so. HIV/AIDS just screws your life up and
> generally makes you die early, to put it at its bluntest. (Actually,
> IIRC AIDS just buggers up your immune system so you die from something
> normally harmless - AIDS doesn't even kill you itself. Or am I wrong
> again?)
HIV stands for Human Immuno(sp?)-deficiency Virus, and though I have no
real experience with it (and don't want to either :) from everything I've
seen and read about it, AIDS stops your immune system from working; AIDS
itself doesn't do anything to you except destroy your defenses. In the
end AIDS patients die from diseases everyone else survives easily, or
which they don't even get at all.
I guess you could compare it to being in a locked house with people
outside wanting to get you. They can't get in, but if they get a bulldozer
they can demolish the wall and get at you.
> HMHVV, on the other hand, changes you into a completely different
> LIFEFORM! HMHVV infected people get really funky powers and
> corresponding weaknesses - since when are AIDS victims (or VITAS victims
> if you want to keep it SRish) able to Essence Drain? :)
Maybe that would be the solution :)
Now we're talking about it, what woul VITAS do anyway? SRII gives a
VITAS-3 a damage of 6D and says sufferers get chills, fever, and vomiting
until damage gets reduced to Light, but that's it. Doesn't sound like a
disease that wiped out millions of people to me...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:22:33 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <232DA9B56D3@********.uibk.ac.at>
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Simon T. Sailer said on 10:12/21 Jul 97...
> What If a player is missing at one session? Do you let another one
> play his character? Or do you think of a way to let the character
> disappear for some time?
My usual way of handling this is turning the character into a semi-NPC;
that is, the GM (usually me) plays the character but (s)he stays in the
background. When the other players make plans, I tend to assume the absent
player agrees with them, and therefore so does the character, unless it's
something I know the char would really be opposed to.
> If somebody else plays the character, aren't ther problems with the
> stats since the character sheet in question should be missing as
> well?
Not when I GM, because I take the sheets with me at the end of each game
session.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:22:33 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Munchkin man :P
In-Reply-To: <199707202348.RAA27672@******>
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David Buehrer said on 17:48/20 Jul 97...
> But, the last version you sent to the list had an error, and you
> never sent the corrected version :)
Yes, I did... After the mistake (which happened because I confused the
two Essence costs given on the page with the Reaction Enhancer in
Cybertechnology) I corrected it and IIRC posted the latest version.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 04:30:38 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <232DA9B56D3@********.uibk.ac.at>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:12 7/21/97 +0100, you wrote:
>HI!
>Just one simple, not too important question to all those who play
>shadowrun regularly...
>What If a player is missing at one session? Do you let another one
>play his character? Or do you think of a way to let the character
>disappear for some time?
In my last campaign this would have been a bigger problem, since the PC's
had decided to be friends outside of work.
In the new campaign I should be starting this week, I've done a bit more of
the deciding for the players, and they will not be close friends outside of
working. This will make it easier for one character to pull out of a job
early, or not show up at all.
>If somebody else plays the character, aren't ther problems with the
>stats since the character sheet in question should be missing as
>well?
I ussually keep the character sheets all at my place, but I've ran games
without them before <g>
-Aj
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:34:23 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
In-Reply-To: <33C86D43.77F394BC@*********.net> from "Deosyne" at Jul 13,
97 01:53:07 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|
|Spike wrote:
|>
|> |<snip my post>
|>
|> How does Shadowrun 3rd Edition grab you?
|> --
|>
|Like vice grips to the genital region. Now I'll have to learn to convert
|1st Ed. to 3rd! Maybe I'll give in this time and just buy the damn 3rd
|<grumble>.
Don't worry. They only just started work on it. Someone asked for things we
wanted fixing, clarifying and changing....
It broke list-bulk records...
(one of the things suggested by quite a few people was to bring back
variable staging.....)
So what's the deal this time, they merging 2nd ed. sourcebook
|with the companion and choice goodies from the supplements, or are they
|shooting for an overhaul of the system? (Mike, you still around? :)
Basically, I think it's going to be SHRII + VRII + RBB2 + clarifications and
rules tidying.....
(Although it'll only have the RULES from VRII and RBB2, none of the
equipstuff, and probably in brief).
It's not scheduled for a year or two..... Someone said 1998, so 1999 it is
then....
:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:36:54 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Mana Storms?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970721164323.1306C@*****.student.gu.edu.au> from
"SHANE J. WINZAR" at Jul 21, 97 04:48:59 pm
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|
| I've been reading source material for adventures based in
|Australia and come across the term 'Mana Storm'...what are they, I've
|never heard of them before and I've read most of the Fasa books, have
|they been made up by someone? anyway what are they and what sort of
|damage do they do etc,
Have you read "Choose your enemies carefully"?
Verner sees a few Mana storms in Aussieland when he's after the really
powerfull focus in Airs(sp?) Rock.....
We'll probably have to wait for an Aussie sourcebook before they get
explained though.....
I Want to know how they work and what they do as well....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
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Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:54:58 -0700
Reply-To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
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> Now we're talking about it, what woul VITAS do anyway? SRII gives a
> VITAS-3 a damage of 6D and says sufferers get chills, fever, and vomiting
> until damage gets reduced to Light, but that's it. Doesn't sound like a
> disease that wiped out millions of people to me...
The virus, um, Reads The Script (for all the Trekkers out there...)
But this is VITAS-*3* we're talking about -- it was the original VITAS
that did the nasty salsa over so many. It's damage code has been lost
to antiquity -- probably got smurfed during the 2029 Crash, or sumfin'.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:42:39 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970721184002.14208C-100000@*******.dialix.com.au>
from "Lady Jestyr" at Jul 21, 97 06:41:30 pm
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|
|> In our sessions there is usually a small time in game time between
|> playing, just write a story of why he's not there ie. captured by
|> sombody, family crisis,whatever. If you know somone is going to be gone
|
|Often our sessions break off in the middle of adventures - it's a bit
|hard to explain why Fred suddenly just "vanished" before your eyes...
In shadowrun, that always was a toughie.... I'd have him knocked unconcious
almost straight away (stun only), and miraculously recover when he turns
up.... Poetic licence, don't ya know...
In rifts, it's somewhat easier. You just have one of the baddies use a
one-use weapon that creates a small dimentional pocket that sucks him
in..... He then pops out when convenient....
:)
|Tried it. Never again... it messes with your head when your character's
|best friend doesn't recognise any of his buddies and thinks they're
|trying to hurt him. Brainwashing is bad.
I thought that'd be the whole point.....
:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:44:28 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <33D1E0B6.204B63F5@*********.com> from "Caun Haskins" at Jul
20,
97 03:56:16 am
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|P.S. hey Bull when do you sleep? I don't think you ever stop posting,
|just wondering.
|
I thought you knew!
Bull is an AI. He never sleeps....
:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:48:58 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
In-Reply-To: <199707211021.MAA14734@*****.xs4all.nl> from "Gurth" at Jul
21,
97 12:22:33 pm
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|Now we're talking about it, what woul VITAS do anyway? SRII gives a
|VITAS-3 a damage of 6D and says sufferers get chills, fever, and vomiting
|until damage gets reduced to Light, but that's it. Doesn't sound like a
|disease that wiped out millions of people to me...
I think it's pretty obvious. Look at the acronym...
V... Virally
I... Induced
T... Toxic
A... Allergy
S... Syndrome
It makes you severely allergic to EVERYTHING!
(Probably even air....)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 08:31:09 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Angel Ramos y David Fayes <hansa@****.NET>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <232DA9B56D3@********.uibk.ac.at>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:12 AM 21/07/1997 +0100, you wrote:
>HI!
>Just one simple, not too important question to all those who play
>shadowrun regularly...
>What If a player is missing at one session? Do you let another one
>play his character? Or do you think of a way to let the character
>disappear for some time?
>
In or gaming group we don't play the missing person's PC. If there is no
way we can manage this PC to separate from the group we just freeze it.
>If somebody else plays the character, aren't ther problems with the
>stats since the character sheet in question should be missing as
>well?
Our GM keeps copies of our PC (in case someone is cheating) in case someone
didn't bring his PC sheet. Just like happened yesterday with the Otaku PC.
>Ok, I'ts really not too important, but anyway, Id like to know how
>others play...
This is our way.
Hope this help a little
Elven Mage
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 08:17:37 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Angel Ramos y David Fayes <hansa@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Stranger Souls is #1
In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19970719070244.0070660c@******.uoregon.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:02 AM 19/07/1997 -0700, you wrote:
>Just thought I'd mention that Stranger Souls made the number one slot on the
>LOCUS magazine bestseller list for June (in the Game-related fiction
>category). This was it's first month in stores so I'm pretty friggin stoked.
>My personal thanks to those of you on the list who've bought a copy. Also I
>am greatly appreciative to those who've sent me email responses.
>
Great!!
I did my request to my bookstore here in Venezuela. Awaiting eagerly!!!!!!
Saludos
Elven Mage
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:48:15 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bruce <gyro@********.CO.ZA>
Subject: Re: WoTC on TV (was: Re: WOTC/FASA)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>MtG has been building in popularity and economic (if such a thing is
>possible) power for some time now. The only thing about that game that I had
>to respond to most of the players here at one time was ....
>
>"Gee, now that I know whom the real powergamers/munchkins are."
>
>I am not saying that everything about MtG is bad, but it did help a lot of
>people look at things differently.
>-Keith
>
OK as an earnest role player and a fanatical card gamer I would like to know
where the Magic=Munchkin link even begins. Please.
>>>>>>BRUCE
"Dont hit me, I just drive the car!"
-Sharkboy, our Rigger to peeved razorgal<<<<<<<
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:04:26 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Totems -Reply
>But, to query up an ED term. What about the
>Passions and the Loa? Those two sets of
>beings are most notably -not- mental
>constructs in the normal sense as Spells,
>Watchers and perhaps Ally beings.
Maybe, maybe not, but I dare you to PROVE it.
Double-Domed Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:52:41 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: [OT] EuroGenCon
Spike Writes
>
> Hey Gurth! Where IS EuroGencon?????
Awaiting.
Well the answer is Loughborough University, 28th to 31st August. (so
you are a LOT closer than Gurth :) ).
More data available or try ringing TSR.
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:50:32 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: [OT] EuroGenCon
Gurth writes
> BTW, since this started as a GenCon thing, who will be going to the
> European version?
>
I will, but i think you at least knew that.
Note i am still awaiting the pack about whats going on there though
last i heard off TSR its due about now.
I have some plans forming, more when i have time.
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:01:46 MEZ-1MESZ
Reply-To: sandman@****.uni-oldenburg.de
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: HAUPT ULRICH FB08 <sandman@****.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Organization: University Of Oldenburg Comp.Center
Subject: Re: question
> What If a player is missing at one session? Do you let another one
> play his character? Or do you think of a way to let the character
> disappear for some time?
As you can imagine the allsaying answer:
It depends on the adventure ! But in my group the character usually
will be played by the game master. In some cases the other players
play the one - especially in combat situations.
Most of the time such characters are judt good enough to hold the
torch, drive the car or watch for Lone Star.
I remember only 4 times when a character was kicked off the
adventure! 2 of those were meetings were ane adventure ended and
another started (with a new game master).
I hope I could help you!
Sandman
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:46:26 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In-Reply-To: <12503.199707210956@*****.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Spike said on 10:56/21 Jul 97...
> Hey Gurth! Where IS EuroGencon?????
Loughborough (sp?) University. When I looked it up on the map, it appears
to be a bit below Nottingham. I'll definitely be there for four days
(28-31 August), but I was wondering who else from this list is planning to
go.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:46:26 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Discworld novels (was Re: Totems)
In-Reply-To: <12595.199707211013@*****.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
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Spike said on 11:13/21 Jul 97...
> |Hmmm... Maybe time to order some [Discworld] books?
>
> One word.... Yes!
Another word: Definitely!
> If you want to get them in the correct order, it's:
> The Colour of Magic, The Light Fantastic, Equal Rites, Mort, Wyrd Sisters
> (now a Channel 4 cartoon ;) ), errrr.... HELP.... There're so many I've
> forgotten the order......
Afetr Wyrd Sisters, there's Pyramids, Guards! Guards!, Eric, Moving
Pictures, Reaper Man, Witches Abroad, Small Gods, Lords And Ladies, Men At
Arms, Soul Music, Interesting Times, Maskerade, and one or two others I
don't own yet.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:48:36 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In-Reply-To: <199707211445.QAA18204@*****.xs4all.nl> from "Gurth" at Jul
21,
97 04:46:26 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|
|Spike said on 10:56/21 Jul 97...
|
|> Hey Gurth! Where IS EuroGencon?????
|
|Loughborough (sp?) University. When I looked it up on the map, it appears
|to be a bit below Nottingham. I'll definitely be there for four days
|(28-31 August), but I was wondering who else from this list is planning to
|go.
I might, but I doubt I can afford it....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:50:04 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Discworld novels (was Re: Totems)
In-Reply-To: <199707211445.QAA18223@*****.xs4all.nl> from "Gurth" at Jul
21,
97 04:46:26 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|Arms, Soul Music, Interesting Times, Maskerade, and one or two others I
|don't own yet.
Hogfather and Feet of clay.....
(I've not even read Masquerade yet.... I'm falling behind....)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 08:51:57 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: M:TG = Munchkin? (Was Re: WoTC on TV)
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970721094815.008459dc@********.co.za>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:48 7/21/97 +0200, you wrote:
>>MtG has been building in popularity and economic (if such a thing is
>>possible) power for some time now. The only thing about that game that I
had
>>to respond to most of the players here at one time was ....
>>
>>"Gee, now that I know whom the real powergamers/munchkins are."
>OK as an earnest role player and a fanatical card gamer I would like to know
>where the Magic=Munchkin link even begins. Please.
I think alot of it stems from card gamers who have never played RPG's, and
then try to start RPG's. A CCG's goal (Most of them.) is to kill the
opponent(s) as fast as possible, with any means nessesary. (Red fireball
decks, anyone?). A RPG has so much more depth than most card games, and
most card gamers have a bitch of a time adjusting. I know some people who
play both and do well at each of them, but I know alot of people who play
M:TG and can't grasp Shadowrun..
Then again, I know a few people who play AD&D and can't grasp Shadowrun. <g>
-Adam
Who is glad the gaming store owner is cutting back on CCG's and stocking
more SR.
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
GC3.1 GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 08:52:39 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
hernandez wrote:
>
> <SNIP>
> > Actually, one of my more striking early memories of Phoenix Arizona was
> of a
> > guy on a motorcycle (probably a Harley, who knows) riding along the road
> -in-
> > the city limits, he had a Shotgun (BIG THING), a Katana (No, I'm not
> kidding)
> > and what could have been a "heavy pistol". It didn't seem to stop
him,
> and
> > the police officer was driving two cars behind him. Talk about a change
> in
> > society.
> Arizona is an "open" carry state. So long as the weapon is in plain view,
> no license is needed to carry it.
...and even more astounding is that firearms do not need to be
registered here. IN fact all that has to be visible of the gun is a
portion, or a portion of the holster (a throw back to WWII days when
soldiers were coming home with the 'ol flop over style holsters that
completely cover the gun.)
Caric-the-just-a-little-more-useless-info-shaman
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:04:19 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Spike wrote:
> Basically, I think it's going to be SHRII + VRII + RBB2 + clarifications and
> rules tidying.....
>
> (Although it'll only have the RULES from VRII and RBB2, none of the
> equipstuff, and probably in brief).
>
> It's not scheduled for a year or two..... Someone said 1998, so 1999 it is
> then....
From what Steve said it appears that they are shooting for Gencon next
year...which would be about August 10th or so I would imagine. That of
course is a preliminary release time, so expect changes.
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:50:53 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Munchkin man :P
In-Reply-To: <199707211026.EAA03752@******> from "Gurth" at Jul 21,
97 12:22:33 pm
Content-Type: text
Gurth wrote:
|
| David Buehrer said on 17:48/20 Jul 97...
|
| > But, the last version you sent to the list had an error, and you
| > never sent the corrected version :)
|
| Yes, I did... After the mistake (which happened because I confused the
| two Essence costs given on the page with the Reaction Enhancer in
| Cybertechnology) I corrected it and IIRC posted the latest version.
Whoops. I musta gotten confused (or maybe received the posts out of
order). Well then, I'll just have to throw version 2.1 at my players
the next time I run <EGMG>.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:03:45 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
In-Reply-To: <199707211023.EAA03453@******> from "Gurth" at Jul 21,
97 12:22:33 pm
Content-Type: text
Gurth wrote:
|
| Now we're talking about it, what woul VITAS do anyway? SRII gives a
| VITAS-3 a damage of 6D and says sufferers get chills, fever, and vomiting
| until damage gets reduced to Light, but that's it. Doesn't sound like a
| disease that wiped out millions of people to me...
Well, if you take a Deadly and don't receive treatment (first aid),
or don't make a Body(10) test (not likely for your average person),
you'll be dead in a number of minutes equal to your bodyx10. VITAS
killed what, 20% of the population all at once? How many people were
actually affected for it to reach those kind of numbers? Overload
the medical system that much and everybody on the fringe, or who came
in after the medicine ran out... The nasty thing with plagues isn't
that their deadly on an individual basis, but that so many people get
it at once that the medical system can't keep up.
Also, remember the rules on Deadly Wounds and Permanent Damage.
Right from the outset VITAS has a fair chance of doing permanent
damage to its host (again, to the average person). That puts an even
bigger load on the system. And not just the medical system,
everything is going to be affected by that many people being
"scarred" for life (until clonal replacement caim along, and even
then it couldn't do anything for the people that lost attribute
points).
VITAS seriously fucked with the world.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:07:20 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <199707210820.CAA22171@******> from "Simon T. Sailer" at Jul
21,
97 10:19:50 am
Content-Type: text
Simon T. Sailer wrote:
|
| Hi!
| Did you ever notice that in shadowrun unarmed combat the fight is
| over after 5 seconds... the one who scores the first hit wins the
| fight since with the higher target number due to the injury, the
| other one stands no chance... so what does the smart player? through
| anything he has... all the pools, combat and karma, into the first
| attack... then he either has won or lost... its all over after the
| first combat turn. Really makes me sick...
Have you ever been in a real fight (one where either or both sides
now how to fight)? It is over that quickly.
| In order to develope a cool fistfight that lasts for a few minutes, I
| have to break the rules several times.
| Does anyone out there know a solution/does anyone share the same
| experiences? If not, why not?
If you want to make it more cinamatic here's a couple things you can
do. Allow the target of an attack to use as much of his combat pool
as he wants to defend. Award ties to the target. If the target gets
more successes, he doesn't hit the attacker, it just results in the
attack being a failure.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:58:57 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: Mana Storms?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Spike wrote:
>
> |
> | I've been reading source material for adventures based in
> |Australia and come across the term 'Mana Storm'...what are they, I've
> |never heard of them before and I've read most of the Fasa books, have
> |they been made up by someone? anyway what are they and what sort of
> |damage do they do etc,
>
> Have you read "Choose your enemies carefully"?
> Verner sees a few Mana storms in Aussieland when he's after the really
> powerfull focus in Airs(sp?) Rock.....
>
> We'll probably have to wait for an Aussie sourcebook before they get
> explained though.....
>
> I Want to know how they work and what they do as well....
IIRC they exist in Tir na Nog as well. I think that sourcebook explains
them a bit, but I don't have it here with me. Anyone else have info on
this?
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:12:15 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <199707210813.CAA21960@******> from "Simon T. Sailer" at Jul
21,
97 10:12:09 am
Content-Type: text
Simon T. Sailer wrote:
|
| HI!
| Just one simple, not too important question to all those who play
| shadowrun regularly...
| What If a player is missing at one session? Do you let another one
| play his character? Or do you think of a way to let the character
| disappear for some time?
If the character isn't required for the adventure to continue (has
special knowledge or skills) then I do the following. In my game
there are a couple of forces that can magically summon the PCs.
Depending on which PC it is the effects vary. The PC is either
surounded by bands of blue light as they fade away, or else everyone
suddenly realizes that the PC is no longer there and hasn't been for
at least 5-10 minutes and they can't remember when he left. The PCs
return the same way with no memory of their experiences when
summoned. Sometimes they come back wounded.
At some point in the far future the PCs will encounter these forces
face to face.
If the character is required, then we find something else to do (Magic,
Roborally, see a movie, etc).
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 13:21:13 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Physical Adepts
As may or may not be known to the world at large, I think Phys-ads are
biased against in SRII. So, in my quest to give them a helping hand, I
tossed this idea around with my players:
I don't like the fact that a physical adept *has* to initiate to gain more
abilities. It doesn't fit my worldview. For a while, I was giving them a .5
discount to the multiplier for initiation, but 1)They still end up with
ridiculous initiate grades, and 2) it doesn't help all that much.
So I decided to do make buying a magic point worth of physical adept
abilities 15 karma. Flat rate, no changes. (Umm, that's about two runs for
my game, what with individual karma awards.) This does not change the
physical adept's actual magic rating.
If he wants to initiate, the cost for grade 0 is 18 (less if he takes an
ordeal/does it with a group.) Each additional grade of initiation costs
(6+(next grade)*3)-15. (Again, adjust the multiplier as necessary.) A
physical adept may only initiate to a level equal to the number of magic
points worth of powers he has -6 (i.e., his initiate grade is limited by
the amount of magic points he's bought.)
A physical mage buys magic points for his physad side, and initiates *at
full cost* on his magical side. He is *not* limited in grade by the number
of magic points he has gotten. His magic rating is that of his mage side.
If he loses all his mage magic rating, he may then initiate as a physad
does, because that is all he is now.
Any comments?
I believe that this would make physical adepts a little more interesting
and playable without overpowering them.
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 13:06:18 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: question
On Monday, July 21, 1997 05:22, Simon T.
Sailer[SMTP:Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT] wrote:
> > We generally either leave them out if they weren't essential to the
> > plotline or we're in a bad mood.
> >
> > Lady Jestyr
>
> You leave them out even if the character didn't have time to leave?
> So he just disappears sometimes and reappears later? Well, thats the
> easiest sulution, but the least satisfying one.
In Shadowrun, I try to give a logical explanation of why the PC is not
interacting with the rest of the party. It's also easier in SR than in a
fantasy game.
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:21:55 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Bows and crossbows
In-Reply-To: <199707210642.AAA12691@******> from "Caun Haskins" at Jul
20,
97 01:44:13 am
Content-Type: text
Caun Haskins wrote:
|
| David wrote:
| I disagree. "Free actions are relatively simple, nearly automatic
| actions that require little or no effort to accomplish." Picking up
| an arrow is pretty easy, but nocking(sp?) the thing requires some
| concentration (I have a fair ammount of RL experience on this one).
|
| Wrong! (no offense) but knocking an arrow is natural, I have some
| experience in archery (won a couple kid tourneys) I don't know the SR
| equivenenlt of the skill level (maybe 4/5) at that level maybe lower It
| defiantly should be a free action!
Well, it's not just how easy it is, but how much time it takes in SR
terms, IMO (and I think SR's opinion too, but I've been wrong on that
before :)
Look at the list of Free Actions. Each one takes about 1/10 of a
second. Now the list of Simple Actions. Each one is no longer than
1/2 a second. I don't know about you, but even if I do it perfectly
I can't ready a bow in the time it takes to change gun mode, change
position, fire a weapon, insert a clip, etc. So I think FASA is
being very generous in allowing a character to ready a bow with a
Simple Action. Now, they may be overly generous in allowing a
character to ready a crossbow with a Simple Action. I'd require a
complex action. And that may be the best solution of all, IMHO.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:38:12 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Physical Adepts
In-Reply-To: <199707211718.LAA25988@******> from "Jonathan Hurley" at Jul
21,
97 01:21:13 pm
Content-Type: text
Jonathan Hurley wrote:
|
| So I decided to do make buying a magic point worth of physical adept
| abilities 15 karma. Flat rate, no changes. (Umm, that's about two runs for
| my game, what with individual karma awards.) This does not change the
| physical adept's actual magic rating.
|
| If he wants to initiate, the cost for grade 0 is 18 (less if he takes an
| ordeal/does it with a group.) Each additional grade of initiation costs
| (6+(next grade)*3)-15.
Why the -15? For each grade of initiation he's getting some pretty
good metamagic abilities.
| A physical adept may only initiate to a level equal to the number of magic
| points worth of powers he has -6 (i.e., his initiate grade is limited by
| the amount of magic points he's bought.)
So if a physad that's purchased 2 extra points of physad abilities can only
initiate to grade 2 (just to clarify).
| I believe that this would make physical adepts a little more interesting
| and playable without overpowering them.
I like the idea of PAs being able to purchase more points to spend on
abilities, but I think you should keep the initiation rules is. If a
PA purchases extra points, and then later initiates, then he should
get the points gained for that too (a PA purchases 2 extra points for
30 karma, then initiates over time to grade 2 increasing his Magic by
2 and gets another 2 points to spend on PA abilities).
An easier way may be to allow Physads 1.5 PA Points per point of
Magic. And if a player makes a Priority A Physad, he gets 2 PA
Points per point of Magic (this one has never been tested, just an
idea that rolled out of my left ear).
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:46:25 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Mana Storms?
In-Reply-To: <199707211711.LAA24843@******> from "Caric" at Jul 21,
97 09:58:57 am
Content-Type: text
Caric wrote:
|
| > | I've been reading source material for adventures based in
| > |Australia and come across the term 'Mana Storm'...what are they, I've
| > |never heard of them before and I've read most of the Fasa books, have
| > |they been made up by someone? anyway what are they and what sort of
| > |damage do they do etc,
| >
| > Have you read "Choose your enemies carefully"?
| > Verner sees a few Mana storms in Aussieland when he's after the really
| > powerfull focus in Airs(sp?) Rock.....
|
| IIRC they exist in Tir na Nog as well. I think that sourcebook explains
| them a bit, but I don't have it here with me. Anyone else have info on
| this?
"The dreaded doineann draoidheil, permanent storms of magical energy
that disrupt all magical operations..." The force rating of the
storms is applied to all TN for all magical operations in the area of
the storm. They can also be harnesed by *very* powerful mages, which
can use the energy to temporarily increase their magic pool. The storms
also attract spirits and magical beings.
I don't think their the same thing as the mana storms in Australia.
I got the impression that those storms were dangerous to anything in
their path.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:01:49 -0700
Reply-To: hernandez@********.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: hernandez <hernandez@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Mana Storms?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Spike wrote:
> > | I've been reading source material for adventures based in
> > |Australia and come across the term 'Mana Storm'...what are they, I've
> > |never heard of them before and I've read most of the Fasa books, have
> > |they been made up by someone? anyway what are they and what sort of
> > |damage do they do etc,
> Caric wrote:
> IIRC they exist in Tir na Nog as well. I think that sourcebook explains
> them a bit, but I don't have it here with me. Anyone else have info on
> this?
<Tir Na Nog pg. 145>
They are called "Doineann Draoidheil" and are permanent storms of magical
energy that disrupt magical operations. The Force Rating applies as a
modifier to TN's for all magical operations. Initiates of the Order of the
Sun, Moon, and Stars are the only ones potentially powerful enough to
control it. Any Initiate attempting a magical operation near or within the
storm may make a Magic Test against a TN equal to 2x the Force Rating of
the storm, -1 per 2 grades of initiation rounding up. If unsuccessful
Initiate suffers a 9D Drain.
To determine how much energy he can use, he rolls one die for each success
in his Magic Test, subtracting 1 from each roll. Dice are then totaled up
to the Force Rating of the storm. The Initiate adds that number of dice to
his Magic Pool. That represents the total he can use in magical or astral
operations. This bonus lasts for a number of minutes determined the same
way. Once power is let go, Initiate suffers a 9D Drain.
Spirits and magical beings are also attracted by the storms and a prudent
Initiate always brings a bodyguard and a friendly spirit or two to help
watch his back. Grade 6 Initiates are said to brave the storms as part of a
Quest Ordeal.
Hope this helps
MoonShadow
In the begining Man created God;
and in the image of Man created he him
hernandez@********.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 15:15:16 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Things that always annoyed you in SR2....
In-Reply-To: <ufracv6k0g.fsf@*******.hanse.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In message <ufracv6k0g.fsf@*******.hanse.de>, "Shadowrun ML demon
<shadowrn-ml@*******.hanse.de>" <shadowrn-ml@*******.HANSE.DE> writes
>"Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK> writes:
>> It's nasty, but far from being utterly and totally fatal. WP casualties
>> survive quite nicely today.
>
>Uhm - I find this pretty hard to believe, I have to admit. As far as I
>know having about 40% of your skin burned to third degree is already
>lethal and even hot water can cause third degree burns without any
>problems. So something that is sticky and burns a few hundred degrees
>(what IS the exact temperature, btw.) is causing third degree burns
>within fractions of a second... someone surviving being splashed with
>that stuff (without any special equipment, of course). Maybe if you
>only got a few drops... but whatever has been hit got a third degree
>burn, so if more than 40% of the body has been hit you are dead.
Sure: but look at the size of a WP grenade. It's the size of a soft-
drink can. If you're ten feet from it when it bursts, you're going to
catch a few chunks, not get covered over 40% of your body.
Secondly, the WP has to burn through your clothing and equipment.
Webbing gear and body armour will stop WP burns nicely, as will a
helmet.
Even your fatigues are fire-retardant (or at least British Army combats
are) so small pieces of WP won't turn you into a human torch.
>> Remember, it's not just you: you have team-mates to help you and they,
>> too, can administer treatment,
>
>Yeah - but there is hardly anything you can do once a certain amount
>of skin has been burned... at least not nowadays. I could imagine,
>though, that in the future you'd have tanks with some special liquid
>that could take over the functions of the skin until the body had a
>chance to regenerate.
Again, the problem is getting enough of the skin burned.
>> They'll only suck the flame into the engine compartment, if that. WP
>> isn't effective against any military vehicle tougher than a truck (even
>> Land Rovers can shrug it off)
>
>Uhm. So what happens to the electronics and the rubber & plastic parts
>of the engine when they get exposed to flames that burn at several
>hundret degrees... my experience is that plastic, rubber and
>electronics don't really like this.
The engine doesn't get directly exposed to the flame. Look at some of
the news from Northern Ireland: we've been building Land Rovers to shrug
off petrol bombs for decades. The biggest problem is seeing where you're
going through the flames :)
>> Disagree. The burning damage is more realistic. Remember, unless you're
>> carrying the grenade when it explodes, you're only being hit by a few
>> pieces, not coated head-to-toe.
>
>O.k. - first: We are not talking about the explosion damage, right ?
>The grenade affects an area of 10 meters diameter (considering a loss
>of power niveau of 1/.5m - I wasn't able to find any other statement
>about the area covered by a WP grenade) and things in the center most
>probably get pretty much splashed... otherwise the reach wouldn't be
>as far.
If it's right next to you, you're dead.
If it's ten feet away, you're in terrible pain and out of combat for
some time... but you'll almost certainly survive.
>So I can imagine that people/objects outside the core of the explosion
>have a good chance of survival (although they probably get seriously
>hurt), but in the core of the explosion ? I don't think so. A damage
>code of "L" for burning white phosphorus on your skin is far too
>low.
By standard SR rules, a fragmentation grenade at zero range cannot kill
you...
>Of course I know that you have more knowledge about weapons than I do,
>but if you say people "survive easily" through an attack by white
>phosphorus I'd like to know more about the factors that led to his
>survival.
Basically, the fact that WP is less lethal than is widely supposed.
It _does_ create horrific, incapacitating injuries that scare the hell
out of anyone nearby, and it does present significant challenges for
medical treatment, but Falklands experience (where both sides made some
use of WP weapons) indicated that fatalities were low.
It's easier to treat and recover from burns, than it is from deep
fragmentation wounds.
--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:46:34 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: Physical Adepts
On Monday, July 21, 1997 13:38, David Buehrer[SMTP:dbuehrer@****.ORG]
wrote:
> Jonathan Hurley wrote:
> |
> | So I decided to do make buying a magic point worth of physical adept
> | abilities 15 karma. Flat rate, no changes. (Umm, that's about two runs
for
> | my game, what with individual karma awards.) This does not change the
> | physical adept's actual magic rating.
> |
> | If he wants to initiate, the cost for grade 0 is 18 (less if he takes
an
> | ordeal/does it with a group.) Each additional grade of initiation costs
> | (6+(next grade)*3)-15.
>
> Why the -15? For each grade of initiation he's getting some pretty
> good metamagic abilities.
Because he already bought the point of magic that the initiate grade would
normally give him. (He does *not* get the point of magic from initiation to
add to his PA abilities. Sorry if I wasn't clear)
> | A physical adept may only initiate to a level equal to the number of
magic
> | points worth of powers he has -6 (i.e., his initiate grade is limited
by
> | the amount of magic points he's bought.)
>
> So if a physad that's purchased 2 extra points of physad abilities can
only
> initiate to grade 2 (just to clarify).
Yes. (For the reason I clarified above)
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:16:42 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Greg Childress <greg@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Spike wrote
>I imagine that's WHY they bought T$R...
>So their T$R subsidiary can sell RPGs whilst the main company still sells
>Magic the addiction.....
Actually, the reason is probably that the sales of M:tG have been dropping
steadily for a while so the company is looking to diversify to avoid falling
apart. The lads at WotC took a survey of the gaming companies and found one
that was faltering but had really good name-recognition and bought it.
According to Mike Mulvilhill <sp?> (I can't pronounce that name for anything
anyway which put me in the position of having to call him "Mike" in
conversation from the start, he didn't seem to mind too much.) TSR would
have probably been out of business by now or soon had the acquisition not
occurred and his take on the buy-out, which I agree with, is that with this
in mind the purchase was a good thing. The collapse of AD&D would have been
a blow to the entire industry as it is the flagship game. It is the fact
that WotC did have to look around the industry to find a company to buy that
is sparking most of the rumors.
I just got back from origins and I have to say that the atmosphere was kind
of odd. WotC seemed to be more quiet and unobtrusive than usual. In fact
the only real effect they had on the convention was the annoying and
pathetic fourteen year-old Magic zombies wandering around and pitifully
asking if you wanted to play this game (clutching deck) as if they were some
sort of weird beggars and the increase in weight the average attendee was
lugging. The con had a real aura of growth, as if the sale of TSR made
everyone realize that no game is permanent and fostered interest in new
games.
<greg>
noir rocks!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:26:54 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Bull wrote:
> Also, I don;t keep track of ammo, and don;t make my players do that either,
> except in extreme situations... Thus going for the John Woo Automatic
> Reloads in less than a second...;]
Hmmm...I think that running out of ammo makes it waaaayy more fun. :)
Caric-the-*click*-frag!!!-shaman
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:37:05 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Barbie wrote:
>
> At 18-Jul-97 wrote Caric:
>
> >Us either...I think I had the highest total ever with somewhere in the
> >neighborhood of 200.
>
> As I have mention at the beginning of the week I have just crossed
> 500 karma :-]
Right, I was just pointing out the highest total in our group, and Caric
is dead now anyway so I think the highest total is 5 right now. :)
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:39:43 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: White phosphorus (Re: [SR3] Things that always annoyed you in
SR
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Gurth wrote:
> > > It's nasty, but far from being utterly and totally fatal. WP casualties
> > > survive quite nicely today.
> >
> > Uhm - I find this pretty hard to believe, I have to admit. As far as I
> > know having about 40% of your skin burned to third degree is already
> > lethal
>
> 80%, I thought it was. At any rate I'd rather not find out :)
Either way, how would you like top be the guy who has to decide what
percentage of someones' body is covered by burns? <shudder> Not fun.
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:54:38 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkin man :P
Comments: To: trrkt@******.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:10 AM 7/20/97 +0000, Mike (Leszek Karlik) wrote:
>Hmmm...
>
>I've been reading through the Paranoid Animals of NA, and saw the
>Speed Samurai archetype...
>
>What a wussie... :P
<snip>
Of course, what you're suggesting isn't a starting character, and the speed
elf is.
Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/
The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton
Gencon count down: 16 days
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:52:14 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Paolo Marcucci wrote:
> It's been a while from when I read some posts about GenCon. I definitely
> will be there on 7th, who else?
>
> GRANITE, you still mantain this list?
Well since Granite is off to part unknown (well Texas) Let me update for
him.
Okay AKAIK:
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Nice people going to GenCon:
>
> FASAMike [If there are enough hours in the day]
> GRANITE
> Mike Broadwater
> Bull
> Fro (maybe)
> The Bookworm
> Gossamer
> Mike Paff
> Caric
> Court Schuett
> Adam (another one or Fro?)
> Nick Van
> Droopy
> Czar Eggbert
> Paolo & Armanda (my gf)
> Loki
> NightLife
> Onyx
> Smilin' Ted
> The Digital Mage aka Grant Erswell
> Steve K.
Topcat (I believe I saw somewhere that he would be there)
Kabael
...that's about it so far...anymore corrections?
Caric-the-temporary-Granite-stand-in-shaman
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 13:00:30 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: Mana Storms?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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David Buehrer wrote:
>
> Caric wrote:
> |
> | > | I've been reading source material for adventures based in
> | > |Australia and come across the term 'Mana Storm'...what are they, I've
> | > |never heard of them before and I've read most of the Fasa books, have
> | > |they been made up by someone? anyway what are they and what sort of
> | > |damage do they do etc,
> | >
> | > Have you read "Choose your enemies carefully"?
> | > Verner sees a few Mana storms in Aussieland when he's after the really
> | > powerfull focus in Airs(sp?) Rock.....
> |
> | IIRC they exist in Tir na Nog as well. I think that sourcebook explains
> | them a bit, but I don't have it here with me. Anyone else have info on
> | this?
>
> "The dreaded doineann draoidheil, permanent storms of magical energy
> that disrupt all magical operations..." The force rating of the
> storms is applied to all TN for all magical operations in the area of
> the storm. They can also be harnesed by *very* powerful mages, which
> can use the energy to temporarily increase their magic pool. The storms
> also attract spirits and magical beings.
>
> I don't think their the same thing as the mana storms in Australia.
> I got the impression that those storms were dangerous to anything in
> their path.
That could certainly by possible, but the ones in the Tir were the only
think close that I could think of that would have stats in SR.
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 17:57:54 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
In-Reply-To: <01BC940A.17C68040@********.u96.stevens-tech.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In message <01BC940A.17C68040@********.u96.stevens-tech.edu>, Jonathan
Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU> writes
>Howdy. (This is *not* a cue for the Bull-Bot to Bot me. <looks left, looks
>right>) Anyway, I was BSing with one of my players on the ride home from
>seeing Contact (Good flick) and wandered into this thought: Most weapons
>that fire Saboted ammo today are smoothbore. That being Tank guns and
>Shotguns. Then I looked in my handy copy of 3G3 and noted that normal
>bullets are 3:1 l:w, while most saboted rounds are 10:1 l:w. IIRC, this is
>because long-arm penetrators are unstable if you spin them. (Example: Take
>a top and a pencil. Spin them, drop them. Which hits the ground on its
>side?)
Point of history.
Armour piercing ammo evolved steadily. Up to the 1940s, AP rounds were
just full-calibre chunks of steel. Larger AP rounds might have burster
charges and base fuses, but most tank and anti-tank guns were 37mm-40mm
in calibre and didn't have room.
As tank armour improved, the AT guns got bigger. It was well known that
armour piercing performance depended on how fast the projectile hit the
armour, how hard it was, and how heavy it was. Thus, AT guns got longer
barrels, fired at higher velocities, and the rounds began to be made of
higher-carbon hardened steel (harder) or tungsten (heavier and harder).
It was also noticed that, to make a shell travel fast in the barrel and
get the highest muzzle velocity, it should be a large-calibre
lightweight projectile. Thus, HVAP (High Velocity Armour Piercing)
appeared: a light-metal projectile with a steel or tungsten core, that
achieved spectacular velocity.
However, to retain its velocity in flight, the projectile should be as
small and dense as possible: HVAP lost velocity and accuracy rapidly at
longer ranges.
One solution was "squeezebore", where the projectile's hard dense core
was surrounded by skirts of aluminium and the barrel tapered at the
muzzle: thus you got a large light round in the barrel, and a small
dense one in flight. This limited the gun (couldn't fire HE rounds) and
also compromised accuracy.
Some bright spark replaced the tapered end of the barrel, with a skirt
(or 'sabot') around the penetrator that fell away outside the barrel:
hence, Armour Piercing, Discarding Sabot.
This was still fired from rifled guns, and the penetrator had a L/D
ratio of about 4:1 to 5:1.
Further advances in materials and metallurgy led to the switch to long-
rod penetrators for tank guns, having L/D ratios of 10:1 or higher.
These cannot be spin-stabilised, so the penetrator is fin-stabilised.
Thus the modern Armour Piercing, Fin Stabilised, Discarding Sabot rounds
(APFSDS) used by most tanks today.
>So I thought about how this applied to Shadowrun. OK, shotguns have no
>problem. But what about rifled small-arms? How do they deal with APDS ammo?
>I thought of three ways. One, (the easy way) was to make sure that the
>sabot did not expand enough to engage the rifling of the barrel.
Bad move. Loses you accuracy and velocity.
>Two,
>placing inserts in the rifling of the barrel to change the weapon into a
>pseudo-smoothbore.
Why not just change barrels? Doing this for a 5.56mm rifle could be
interesting.
>Three, replacing the barrel with a smoothbore barrel.
Oh, you thought of it too :)
>Four, not letting the PCs have APDS <g>.
Five, which is what the British Army does today for its 120mm rifled
tank gun: put a slipping driving band on the sabot. It skids over the
rifling rather than engaging in it, and so only a very slight spin
(which helps the sabot to discard cleanly) is imparted to the
projectile.
--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:12:18 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Collins" <scollins@**.UML.EDU>
Subject: Re: I guess it had to happen sometime;
In-Reply-To: <199707200314.XAA01810@****.provide.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sat, 19 Jul 1997, Justin Pinnow wrote:
->> From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
->> Date: Friday, July 18, 1997 1:57 AM
->
->> indulge a Shadowrun addiction and a Magic addiciton. Some of my freinds
->> that are really into magic have sunk hundreds of $$ into that game. If
->> had sunk that much I would have an almost complete library.
->
->I had a similar problem a few years ago. I sunk a few hundred dollars into
->MtG and had a very hard time keeping up with their quarterly updates.
->Thus, I gave away (yes, GAVE) my several hundred dollar MtG collection.
->
I have never had this problem. So far I have spent just under $300 on
MTG (about 1/3 of what I have spent between SR and Battletech) and
that is only because my original $180 set was stolen out of my car and
I needed to replace it. Can I beat the guys who have spent $10,000
(yes I know a few who did) on their sets every time. No, but I do
manage to beat them about 40% of the Time. My problem with the game is
that I can't find anyone to play with now. All of my friends got the
addiction and then got over it and now they won't play because they
are afraid that they will become re addicted.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 17:04:49 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Collins" <scollins@**.UML.EDU>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <232DA9B56D3@********.uibk.ac.at>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Mon, 21 Jul 1997, Simon T. Sailer wrote:
->HI!
->Just one simple, not too important question to all those who play
->shadowrun regularly...
->What If a player is missing at one session? Do you let another one
->play his character? Or do you think of a way to let the character
->disappear for some time?
->
->If somebody else plays the character, aren't ther problems with the
->stats since the character sheet in question should be missing as
->well?
->
->Ok, I'ts really not too important, but anyway, Id like to know how
->others play...
->
That depends on where we are in the story. If we are just about to
enter a combat or inside the Renraku complex when we have to call it
quits then by all means that character will be there next session. But
if they are still in the legwork part of the run well then that
character will have a close relative die or some such to get him out
for the night. I overcome the character sheet problem by making the
characters leave coppies of their characters with me. If for some
reason they didn't and the character can't be written out then at the
first oppourtunity the character will be killed (to bad for the player
he knew the rules). If I do have the sheet then he will be run by
another played with me holding veto power on any actions if I think he
is being played out of character (no making the absent guys character
charge the machine gun nest to cover the rest of the teams escape).
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:08:58 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In-Reply-To: <33D3BDEE.33B4@********.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:52 7/21/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Well since Granite is off to part unknown (well Texas) Let me update for
>him.
>Okay AKAIK:
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> Nice people going to GenCon:
...
>...that's about it so far...anymore corrections?
Yup..strike my name, barring my winning the lottery. Don't have the bucks
to make it this year.
Next year, however, everything changes <g>
-Adam
Who wants to go, damnit.
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
GC3.1 GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 17:18:57 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@*****.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970721150858.006c28d0@****.lis.ab.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On 21 Jul 97 at 15:08, Adam J wrote:
> Yup..strike my name, barring my winning the lottery. Don't have the bucks
> to make it this year.
Oh well, so much for the unsupervised party we were going to have on
the list..... :)
> Next year, however, everything changes <g>
For me too. I'm there.
--
===DREKHEAD==================================drekhead@***.net===
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
================================================================
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot
stomping on a human face...forever. -George Orwell
----------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 17:17:14 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: question
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:56 AM 7/20/97 -0600, Caun Haskins wrote these timeless words:
>> Brainwashing is bad.
>>
> Copy that! (a bit OT though) i realy wasn't talking about that.
>Bull's idea of NPC ing them works ok as well, still think getting rid
>of them for this session is bes though.
>brains are terible things to mess with I rely dislike that false memory
>spell in the hands of Johnson, that sucks!
>
Agreed.though fortunately I haven't run across this one (and with our
willpowers, It's doubtful it WILL work, unless done by a Dragon or one of
the IE, in which case, I WAT to forget...:))
>Caun :}
>
>P.S. hey Bull when do you sleep? I don't think you ever stop posting,
>just wondering.
>
Ummm... yes? No? maybe?
Heh... Actually, I don;t sleep much, and when I do, it's fairly odd
hours...:] Right now I'm hard at work on Chapter 6 of Quicksilver
Lightning so that everyone can stop bugging me for more of it. I'll
probably stay up long enough to finish up at least one more chapter, edit a
couple more projects for the next issue of the TSS (Gods... This could be
the All Bull issue, if Fro uses everything I hand to him for Issue 4 :)).
Ok, ok... I'm shutting up and getting back to work...:]
Bull-the-never-sleeping-Ork-Decker
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:51:55 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Totems
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 21 Jul 1997 03:13:32 PDT."
<12595.199707211013@*****.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
>|YOu know, Ever since I joined this list you guys have talked about the
>|Discworld books... But for the life of me I can't find them anywhere! The
>|only Discworld anything I'd seen or heard of before joining the list was
>|the video game...
>|
>|Hmmm... Maybe time to order some books?
>
>One word.... Yes!
>
>If you want to get them in the correct order, it's:
>The Colour of Magic, The Light Fantastic, Equal Rites, Mort, Wyrd Sisters
>(now a Channel 4 cartoon ;) ), errrr.... HELP.... There're so many I've
>forgotten the order......
Umm.. My suggestion if you _really_ want to get them in order is: buy
them all at once and read the "other books" listings.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 21:26:04 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Elveses, Goblins and other stuff
In-Reply-To: <yam7140.515.136475920@****.amigaworld.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <yam7140.515.136475920@****.amigaworld.com>, Barbie
<barbie@**********.COM> rambled on endlessly about Dark Conspiracy (Was
- Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
>At 20-Jul-97 wrote Avenger:
>
>
>>By the Tolkien mythology, which seems a strong influence in the fantasy
>>genre, orks are a race derived from Elves. They are in fact Sauron's
>>corruption created from his desire to become like the creator. He
>>used/uses Elves to create the Orks. Orks, however are more than capable
>>of breeding, and hence you get variations on the theme.
>
>Not truly wrong but not truly right.
>Morgoth created the Orcs from the Elves trough genetic manipulation
>of Elves .
Sorry, my fault, the thread made me think of the breeding pits below
Mount Doom, and thus Sauron, who was Morgoths' favoured (IIRC)) so I
made the connection and the brain screwed it up - again. :) The main
problem with reading a whole pile of "epic" fantasy novels is the
similarity with the plots tends to confuse the mind occassionally. I
made a similar mistake once in another list where I confused Sauron with
another dark enemy from a different series of books - something I'm
particularly good at - confusing things that is. :)
--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:05:45 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: WoTC on TV (was: Re: WOTC/FASA)
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 21 Jul 1997 02:48:15 PDT."
<1.5.4.32.19970721094815.008459dc@********.co.za>
>OK as an earnest role player and a fanatical card gamer I would like to know
>where the Magic=Munchkin link even begins. Please.
It comes from the only _real_ way to win against a hardcore M:tG player:
Spend him to death.
That's right, you need to spend more on your deck than he/she/it does.
Some strategy in choosing the cards is helpful, but the main thing is
to buy all the really expensive stuff.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:04:05 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:26 PM 7/21/97 -0700, Caric wrote these timeless words:
>Bull wrote:
>> Also, I don;t keep track of ammo, and don;t make my players do that either,
>> except in extreme situations... Thus going for the John Woo Automatic
>> Reloads in less than a second...;]
>
>Hmmm...I think that running out of ammo makes it waaaayy more fun. :)
>
Yeah, but... I'm lazy, and so are my players...
If you've ever played the Star Wars RPG, there is a concept in that game
called the WIld Die. basically, it's an off color die that you roll for
pretty much every dice test, even if you only need to roll one die, you
roll that one.
The effects are varied in SW, depending on the GM, but basically rolling a
1 is BAD, and rolling 6 is GOOD. Since SW doesn't use an open ended d6, I
always used a 6 on the wild die as an open ended 6, while on a one,
something really bad happened. This varied depending on what I wanted to
make happen, but most often it meant that they ran out of ammo (Those power
cells on blasters are SO darned unpredictable...;] ).
Now, I've been thinking of instituting something similar for SR, though I'm
not sure exactly what a 6 result could be since there already are open
ended sixes... Howeverm a 1 could definately mean something like out of
ammo, or a gun jam...;]
>Caric-the-*click*-frag!!!-shaman
>
Heh... i like it...;]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 08:10:58 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970721052827.2fc7b8a6@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> Agreed.though fortunately I haven't run across this one (and with our
> willpowers, It's doubtful it WILL work, unless done by a Dragon or one of
> the IE, in which case, I WAT to forget...:))
Huh. The guy it happened to was a PhysAd with Willpower 6 or 7 and the
adept power Iron Will (or whatever it's called). Don't feel TOO safe. :)
Lady Jestyr
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:20:45 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mike.paff@*****.COM
Subject: Re: The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma)
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
>
> If you've ever played the Star Wars RPG, there is a concept in that game
> called the WIld Die.
>
> The effects are varied in SW, depending on the GM, but basically rolling a
> 1 is BAD, and rolling 6 is GOOD.
>
> Now, I've been thinking of instituting something similar for SR, though I'm
> not sure exactly what a 6 result could be since there already are open
> ended sixes... Howeverm a 1 could definately mean something like out of
> ammo, or a gun jam...;]
>
Unless your players don't take care of their guns, or they are full-auto freaks,
I think this would cause your BAD result to happen much to often. Statistically,
every sixth time someone fires a gun, it will jam, run out of ammo, etc., which
I think might be a little too often to be believable.
Perhaps if a one comes up, reroll the Wild Die, and depending on the situation
and the number rolled, you get varied results.
For example:
For a standard heavy pistol with a reasonable sized clip:
1 = Jam
2 = Out of ammo
3-6 = no effect
For a revolver or magazine fed weapon:
1 = Jam
2-5(or 6) = Out of ammo
For an LMG on full auto:
1 = Jam/smoking barrel/ammo spontaneously cooks off
2-5 Out of ammo
If the gun has been poorly maintained, or the ammo is of questionable quality,
increase the chance of a jam/misfire.
Mike Paff
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 08:23:04 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970721174149.2fc7fce2@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> The effects are varied in SW, depending on the GM, but basically rolling a
> 1 is BAD, and rolling 6 is GOOD. Since SW doesn't use an open ended d6, I
> always used a 6 on the wild die as an open ended 6, while on a one,
> something really bad happened. This varied depending on what I wanted to
> make happen, but most often it meant that they ran out of ammo (Those power
> cells on blasters are SO darned unpredictable...;] ).
Heh... one of my friends had really bad luck with his wild die. :) He
blew up 6 or 7 blaster powerpacks in a row. Very professional, tough
bounty hunter - with a gun that keeps exploding. :)
I started calling him the Big Bad Bounty Hunter... until he hit me. :)
> "Gen Con, here I come!"
> -- Me
I hate you. :)
Lady Jestyr
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 08:29:47 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma)
In-Reply-To: <199707212220.PAA08872@*******.>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> Perhaps if a one comes up, reroll the Wild Die, and depending on the situation
> and the number rolled, you get varied results.
>
> For a standard heavy pistol with a reasonable sized clip:
> 1 = Jam
> 2 = Out of ammo
> 3-6 = no effect
I don't think Out of Ammo should be included... "Yep, I pull out my
Manhawk. Check it's loaded. Yup? Okay... I run into the Stuffer Shack
and yell 'Give me all your money!' I shoot a customer to make my point."
<rolling dice> "Okay... you're out of ammo."
"WHAT???"
Lady Jestyr
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 08:37:52 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: A Li'l Ole Question
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I know this thread has been covered many times before, so replies can go
by private email...
What movies would everyone recommend for Shadowrun? And what's
"Shadowrunny" (ew!) about them?
Lady Jestyr
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 19:05:21 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: SR-type movies (was: A Li'l Ole Question)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
> Date: Monday, July 21, 1997 6:37 PM
> I know this thread has been covered many times before, so replies can go
> by private email...
That wouldn't be any fun... :)
> What movies would everyone recommend for Shadowrun? And what's
> "Shadowrunny" (ew!) about them?
STRANGE DAYS is a good precurser to Shadowrun. It gives you a feel for the
world at the turn of the century and the tension that is growing. It also
covers simsense and gives a solid view of corruption within the police,
drug/simsense pushing, the underground world of music and clubs, and many
other things that capture the true flavor of the Shadowrun universe. This
is my favorite Shadowrun-type movie. (Primarily because it captures the
feel of the universe better than any other movie I have seen, IMO, and
because Angela Bassett kicks 31 flavors of ass....) :)
SNEAKERS is based around a corporate infiltration that can easily be viewed
as a Shadowrun, but it lacks the atmosphere of the Shadowrun universe (it's
set in the present day). It's a good movie for watching a run from start
to finish and what takes place throughout.
BLADE RUNNER ....well, need I say more? This is THE classic movie for this
genre.
JOHHNY NUEMONIC (sp?) covers some of the feel for the universe, as well as
some of the hardware involved (cyberwear). The movie is sometimes reviewed
as cheesy, and I am inclined to agree to a point. However, I believe some
things are very well done. For example: they show a day in the life of a
street doc, they explore the use of a monofiliment whip (even though it
glows), and (most importantly) they discuss how being too wired (reflex
enhanced) can get you a bad reputation on the streets. Take the movie with
a grain of salt, but I would still recommend renting it.
That's all that come to mind at the moment.
Enjoy :)
> Lady Jestyr
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 19:12:42 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Walker of Shadows <OABBrother@***.COM>
Subject: [SR3] Flames (sort of)
I, personally have had enough of SR3 in my E-mail box and would like to
inform the rest of you people that nothing even coming close to it will be
accepted.
Flames and carp will be thrown out as well.
Walker of Shadows.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:25:00 MST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Denzil Kruse <dkruse@***.AZ05.BULL.COM>
Subject: Re: SR-type movies (was: A Li'l Ole Question)
> What movies would everyone recommend for Shadowrun? And what's
> "Shadowrunny" (ew!) about them?
Mission: Impossible, obviously. I especially liked Tom Cruise's sleight of
hand with the CD. I also liked the idea of the disavowed list, and Tom
going to recruit them.
Heat: This movie, with Robert Dinero, Al Pacino, and Val Kilmer, didn't look
very good at first, but when I watched it, I thought it was great. These
guys struck me as a very professional team and I enjoyed seeing them work
together. Course, they didn't have much conscience about killing people who
got in their way, but it was interesting seeing them operate. I really
hated the ending. It just didn't seem right - I think Hollywood just
doesn't like to make movies where the criminals get away with it.
Congo: This movie pretty much sucked, but I did like the beginning part
where they are trying to make it to their jungle destination. Dealing with
funding for the trip, negotiating with small country governments, and border
running and hiring mercenary guides.
The Professional: The old-hit-man-trying-to-quit story, but this one was
really good. Starring Jean Reno, the evil helicopter pilot from Mission:
Impossible.
Disorganized Crime: I don't think this movie did very well at the box
office, but I loved it. A criminal (Corbin Bernson) goes to a small town in
Montana and decides to hit the bank. He sends letters out to a bunch of
specialists: car driver/stealer (Lou Diamond Philips), a bank vault opener,
a security/demolitionist (Fred Gywne), and a weapons specialist. But, two
cops from Newark (Ed O'Neil) capture Corbin Bernson right after he mails the
letters, so the rest show up and don't know what to do. Meanwhile, Corbin
escapes, and wanders the countryside, with the Newark cops bumbling after
him. The criminals also bumble around trying to raise money to get one of
them (an alcoholic) out of jail for drunk driving. Corbin was the leader,
and without any leadership these guys argued all the time. It was a really
funny movie, and fun to see these criminals ply their trade.
Denzil Kruse
d.kruse@****.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:31:15 -0700
Reply-To: gdeych@********.att.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gregory Deych <gdeych@********.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: SR-type movies (was: A Li'l Ole Question)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Justin Pinnow wrote:
>
> > From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
> > Date: Monday, July 21, 1997 6:37 PM
>
> > What movies would everyone recommend for Shadowrun? And what's
> > "Shadowrunny" (ew!) about them?
>
I always thought that "HEAT" was quite SR-like.
--
gdeych@********.att.net
Please remove "NOSPAM" from the e-mail address before
answering.
His eyes were eggs of unstable crystal, vibrating with a
frequency whose name was rain and the sound of trains,
suddenly sprouting in a humming forest of hair-fine glass
spines.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:40:52 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:52 PM 7/21/97 -0700, Caric wrote:
>Paolo Marcucci wrote:
>> It's been a while from when I read some posts about GenCon. I definitely
>> will be there on 7th, who else?
>Topcat (I believe I saw somewhere that he would be there)
Yep, and I'm going for free! *high 5's Mikes Broadwater & Nelson* ;^D
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 17:42:58 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In-Reply-To: <199707212115.RAA15485@www.ctghub.com>;
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 17:18 7/21/97 +0000, you wrote:
>On 21 Jul 97 at 15:08, Adam J wrote:
>
>> Yup..strike my name, barring my winning the lottery. Don't have the bucks
>> to make it this year.
>
>Oh well, so much for the unsupervised party we were going to have on
>the list..... :)
Well, I have good news and bad news.
Good news: I will be going away for at least a week sometime in August.
Bad news: I will most likely be appointing a deputy Assistant Fearless Leader.
<Big Asshole Evil Grin>
-Adam
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
GC3.1 GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 20:45:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: [Sorta OT] A new game and advice
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
OK, this really isn't the list for it, I know, but... I trust your
jusdgements and advice (go figure...:)).
Anyways, starting tomorrow, I'm running an AD&D campiagn, specifically one
set in teh Forgotten Realms campign setting. I'm not sure yet how many
players I'll have, but the majority of them have little to no RPG
experience. the core of this group is a bunch of friends that play M:TG,
and now they think they're ready to take a step into RPG's.
One of the guys, Rob, has read some of the TSR FR novels (And the ones that
sparked his desire to play AD&D was the Azure Bonds trilogy which I lent
him). ROb has a little RPG experiance with Robotech from when he was in
high School (He ahsn't played anything like this in about 6 years), and
several of them play Computer Hack & Slash like Doom, Dungeon Keeper, and
the like.
I'm only marginally familiar with the FR setting, but since they offered to
shell out a bunch of cash for the campign settings and a few other books, I
figured I could accomidate.
One thing that is drawing them to this game is the magic, and the high
adventure that is seen in the novels, and as such I plan to run a campign
like that. Granted, it will probably end up a power game. BUt I've seen
low power AD&D games, and they just aren't that much fun. AD&D was meant
to be about adventure, magic and glory, and if that means a touch of
powergaming, so be it.
Plus, I know that teaching these guys to roleplay overnight will be a nigh
impossible task. The first step is learning how to play RPG's. From
there, I can develop their characters. I can think of a half dozen other
games I'd rather run for new players (Star Wars and Shadowrun being the top
two, with marvel Superheroes in close third:)), but I haven't done any AD&D
in quite a while, so... I think this could be kinda fun, going back to my
roots.
Plus, I want to run Keep on the Borderlands again. i think every gamer
should get a copy of it (YOu can find them all over) and play it through
once. It's sort of like an initiation rite. You'ld be hard pressed to
find many gamers that have played more than 10 years but HAVEN'T played
KotB, especially if they started, like most of us did, with D&D. :]:]
Anyways, here's the point of this post. What the hell do I do after that?
It's been far too long since i ran AD&D, and more importantly, I want to
eventually ween these players into more of a roleplaying atmosphere
eventually. How would you suggest doing this? What would you do in a
situation like this (Other than try to convice them to play SR. Maybe
after the card game comes out I can transfer them from Magic, to SR CCG,
then to SR RPG, but until them, this is what they want to play, and it's
either this or play cards again...:)).
Anyways, thanks, and feel free to take this private e-mail if the list
feels this isn;t an appropriate topic...;]
Bull-the-how-did-I-get-roped-into-THIS??-Ork-Decker
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 23:31:28 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: :-(
In-Reply-To: <33D3BA61.736C@********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 21-Jul-97 wrote Caric:
>Right, I was just pointing out the highest total in our group, and Caric
>is dead now anyway so I think the highest total is 5 right now. :)
Sad to hear this its alwasy painfull to loss a character especialy if he
had gone so far.
my he rest in peace for eternity
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 02:11:24 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <232DA9B56D3@********.uibk.ac.at>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 21-Jul-97 wrote Simon T. Sailer:
>HI!
>Just one simple, not too important question to all those who play
>shadowrun regularly...
>What If a player is missing at one session? Do you let another one
>play his character? Or do you think of a way to let the character
>disappear for some time?
We usualy say the character in question is out to do something of its own.
Maybe family biz or learning or so.
And if someone wants to contact the character in question the GM
points to the telephone and says call him/her.
>If somebody else plays the character, aren't ther problems with the
>stats since the character sheet in question should be missing as
>well?
Beside noone is allowed to play a character from someone else, no.
We have all characters of our group on disk in our playing area, so no
missing stats.
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 20:57:36 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 04:52 AM 7/12/97 -0400, Deosyne wrote these timeless words:
>Hey kids, how's life? Had to do a brief stint in rehab for a bitty
>relapse of the Crystal Entity, but I'm back. Ditched the WebTV unit and
>finally assembled my 'puter, so g'head and bitch if the column width is
>off. :) I'll fix it. BTW Gurth: about time to change the block in yer
>sig; the geeks have probably found a way passed it. :) So what new toys
>have the lovely folks at FASA dropped out in the passed couple months;
><hopeful>RBB2???</hopeful> One can dream.
>
>Deosyne (Shawn Baumgartner)
>
Hoi Shawn! Welcome back!!! :]
Glad to see you've managed to get a real system...:] (Web TV makes for a
nice toy, but...:))
Anyways, to answer your question...
The newest product from FASA was Target:UCAS, released this month. It
covers Bosten and Detroit, both aparentlyy "Hot Spots" following the death
of President Dunky... It also has a section on Chicago, and updates Bug City.
More importantly, however, Granite, Fro, Spike, and Myself get a Guest
appearence in the book! Yay!! :] Look for Bull, "The Best Ork Decker you
never met" :]:]
And now, for the BOT :]
+++++ BULL-BOT ACTIVATED
+++++ AUTO GREET INITIATED
Hello there, and Welcome Back list-member Deosyne! Welcome Back to the
Shadowrn Mailing List!
It's a great place, with good people and great discussion! hope ya like mail!
+++++ AUTO OFF TOPIC RANDOM GENERATOR v3.0 INITIATED
+++++ TOPIC #391
Why do Hot dogs come in packages of 10, while Hot Dog Buns come in packages
of 8??
+++++ END AUTO GREET
Anyways, good to see you back among the fold...:]
Bull-the-Welcome-Back-Ork-Decker
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 03:09:06 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970721205612.2da73434@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hmmm...
> And now, for the BOT :]
Hey! I did not get the auto-greet! What's that? Some discrimination,
or what?!1
<grin>
Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
Kilroy was here.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 21:10:31 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:53 AM 7/13/97 -0400, Deosyne wrote these timeless words:
>Like vice grips to the genital region. Now I'll have to learn to convert
>1st Ed. to 3rd! Maybe I'll give in this time and just buy the damn 3rd
><grumble>. So what's the deal this time, they merging 2nd ed. sourcebook
>with the companion and choice goodies from the supplements, or are they
>shooting for an overhaul of the system? (Mike, you still around? :)
>
No idea exactly what they're doing, and Steve kenson hasn't been very
forthcoming with the details, but... Hopefully all they're doing is
cleaning up the rules, modifying a few "trouble rules", and updating the
Matrix and Rigger sections of the book, along with some of the Tech stuff...
Look for SR3 around Gen Con next year, which is supposed to be FASA's bg
premier there...:]
As for Mike, he's Been off the list for about three months. With Summer
here, he's got a LOT of work to do. He's been prepping and finalizing
things with the SR Card Game, priemering at gen Con in a couple weeks, and
then available in Stores after that (I assume), plus Rigger 2.0 (Due around
September, withn hopefully a preview at Gen Con) and Cyberpirates (Due out
probably in October or November, and which was previewed at Origins from
what I hear).
He's been attending Conventions almost every weekend since May or so, so
that's why he isn;t current;y subscribed. Hard to keep up with your mail
when
you can't check it for 3 or 4 days, especially with THIS list...;]
Ok, that's iit... See ya! :]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 21:14:38 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:09 AM 7/22/97 +0000, Mike (Leszek Karlik) wrote these timeless words:
>Hmmm...
>
>> And now, for the BOT :]
>
>Hey! I did not get the auto-greet! What's that? Some discrimination,
>or what?!1
>
><grin>
>
Sorry Mike...:]
You made the mistake of not saying you were new to the list... I can only
greet newbies if I KNOW they're newbies...:]
But if it makes you feel any better...
Welcome! :]
Bull-the-teasing-Mike-Ork-Decker
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 03:18:27 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: A Li'l Ole Question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970722083639.3675E-100000@*******.dialix.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 21-Jul-97 wrote Lady Jestyr:
>What movies would everyone recommend for Shadowrun? And what's
>"Shadowrunny" (ew!) about them?
My alltime favoried is ..... Wild Palms.
Realy sadistic strange story.
A plots synopsis that is hard to get by, In the first time
I have barly understand whats going on after the second episode.
No more spoiling yet . . .
Shadowrunny, hmmm I think its a good portray what can had happened
before the crash of `29.
My recommandation is go and try to find it and see it, but bewarned.
The whole thing ist 270mins long and you need every second to
stay in touch with the plot if you see it the first time.
Good luck in locating a copy of it, its realy hard to find but worth
the trouble.
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 21:20:25 +0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@*****.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: A Li'l Ole Question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970722083639.3675E-100000@*******.dialix.com.au>
On 22 Jul 97 at 8:37, Lady Jestyr wrote:
> I know this thread has been covered many times before, so replies
> can go by private email...
>
> What movies would everyone recommend for Shadowrun? And what's
> "Shadowrunny" (ew!) about them?
Usual Suspects is a good "Shadowrunny" movie, which gave me lots of
PC and NPC ideas. I also like Sneakers, and Heat, mentioned
previously, which both show the merits of good planning.
For an exaggerated idea of what can go wrong with a looney in your
group, see Resevoir Dogs. :)
Blade Runner, Johnny Mnemonic and Strange Days are good movies for
atmosphere.
Also, Grosse Pointe Blank and Seven Heads In A Duffle Bag are
interesting. :)
--
===DREKHEAD==================================drekhead@***.net====
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
=================================================================
2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 21:30:16 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: SR-type movies (was: A Li'l Ole Question)
Greetings!!!
I strongely suggest "The Usual Suspects". Very shadowish, without the tech.
The scene where the team is assembled reminded me of how I put my team
together.
Trust me, you'll love it.
-Bandit
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 04:01:39 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] EuroGenCon
In-Reply-To: <199707211445.QAA18204@*****.xs4all.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hmmm...
> > Hey Gurth! Where IS EuroGencon?????
>
> Loughborough (sp?) University. When I looked it up on the map, it appears
> to be a bit below Nottingham. I'll definitely be there for four days
> (28-31 August), but I was wondering who else from this list is planning to
> go.
Is Nottingham near London (I doubt it.)? 'Cause in August I'm in
England, so maybe I'll go... Anyway, how much will it cost?
Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
A clean desk is a sign of a cluttered desk drawer.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 04:01:39 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Re: SR-type movies (was: A Li'l Ole Question)
In-Reply-To: <9707212325.AA05035@***.az05.bull.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hmmm...
> The Professional: The old-hit-man-trying-to-quit story, but this one was
> really good. Starring Jean Reno, the evil helicopter pilot from Mission:
> Impossible.
Ahh... Leon... Actually, the evil helicopter pilot in Mission:
Impossible is the Leon professional, not the other way 'round (IMHO
The Professional was much better than M:I. It's a cult movie for some
of my pals...).
Also, while we're talking about Jean Reno, another Shadowrunnish
movie would be "Nikita" (there's an US remake, called "Nina", but
it's just a lousy ripoff, and without Jean Reno to boot). I realy
recommend it (and there's Victor the Cleaner, the prototype for Leon,
played by - you guessed it - Jean Reno).
Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
Trrkt - Verpine Scout/Sniper, New Republic Armed Forces.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 22:28:58 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: SR-type movies (was: A Li'l Ole Question)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> From: Mike (Leszek Karlik) <trrkt@******.COM>
> Date: Tuesday, July 22, 1997 12:01 AM
> Also, while we're talking about Jean Reno, another Shadowrunnish
> movie would be "Nikita" (there's an US remake, called "Nina", but
> it's just a lousy ripoff, and without Jean Reno to boot). I realy
> recommend it (and there's Victor the Cleaner, the prototype for Leon,
> played by - you guessed it - Jean Reno).
The US remake of "La Femme Nikita" was entitled "Point of No Return",
and
it starred Bridget Fonda in the role of Nikita. Unlike most folks, I
actually liked the remake quite a bit and felt it was well done. Also,
there is a series on the USA network on Monday nights at 10pm (Eastern
Standard Time) entitled "La Femme Nikita", starring Peta Wilson in the role
of Nikita. The series has Nikita being more geared to the moralistic side
of things, but that poses many interesting situations for her.
"La Femme Nikita" in any of its forms is good viewing for Shadowrun, IMO.
> Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com;
http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 21:59:50 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Grill <frech@***.COM>
Subject: Re: SR-type movies
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Justin Pinnow wrote:
>
> > From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
> <snip>
> > What movies would everyone recommend for Shadowrun? And what's
> > "Shadowrunny" (ew!) about them?
>
It depends upon the type of game your running...
> STRANGE DAYS is a good precurser to Shadowrun. <snip>
>
> SNEAKERS is based around a corporate infiltration <snip>
>
> BLADE RUNNER ....well, need I say more? <snip>
>
> JOHHNY NUEMONIC (sp?) covers some of the feel for the universe, as well as
> some of the hardware involved (cyberwear). <snip>
Good examples. I'm suprised that no one so far has mentioned "Grosse
Point Blank" :)
I can see it as a good model for a character trying to woo someone who
doesn't know the character is a shadowrunner. (And yes, my GM did this
to me before I saw the movie.) :)
Other movies that come to mind: "Aliens", "The Godfather" movies,
"The
Usual Suspects", "Last Man Standing" would be a great premise for a solo
run, "Pulp Fiction", "Reservoir Dogs", "El Mariachi",
"Desperado", and
any other movies which have been mentioned that I'm forgeting would be
good runs, or at least could be adapted for use as a run.
>
> That's all that come to mind at the moment.
>
Same here. :)
> Enjoy :)
>
> > Lady Jestyr
>
> Justin :)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Frech A.K.A. Grill the elfin shaman-Shadowrun-newbie-who-still-
hasn't-been-greeted-by-Bull :)
http://www.realtime.net/~frech/
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 19:44:02 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Mike (Leszek Karlik) wrote:
>
> Hmmm...
>
> > And now, for the BOT :]
>
> Hey! I did not get the auto-greet! What's that? Some discrimination,
> or what?!1
>
> <grin>
Damnit Spike...How many times do I have to put in a work order?
;)
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 23:03:43 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
> Five, which is what the British Army does today for its 120mm rifled
> tank gun: put a slipping driving band on the sabot. It skids over the
> rifling rather than engaging in it, and so only a very slight spin
> (which helps the sabot to discard cleanly) is imparted to the
> projectile.
*That* was it. I knew I'd heard about something like that. Thank you.
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 19:48:34 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: SR-type movies (was: A Li'l Ole Question)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Justin Pinnow wrote:
> > Also, while we're talking about Jean Reno, another Shadowrunnish
> > movie would be "Nikita" (there's an US remake, called
"Nina", but
> > it's just a lousy ripoff, and without Jean Reno to boot). I realy
> > recommend it (and there's Victor the Cleaner, the prototype for Leon,
> > played by - you guessed it - Jean Reno).
>
> The US remake of "La Femme Nikita" was entitled "Point of No
Return", and
> it starred Bridget Fonda in the role of Nikita. Unlike most folks, I
> actually liked the remake quite a bit and felt it was well done. Also,
> there is a series on the USA network on Monday nights at 10pm (Eastern
> Standard Time) entitled "La Femme Nikita", starring Peta Wilson in the role
> of Nikita. The series has Nikita being more geared to the moralistic side
> of things, but that poses many interesting situations for her.
>
> "La Femme Nikita" in any of its forms is good viewing for Shadowrun, IMO.
I agree "La Femme Nikita," is great...hmmmm maybe i'll make a "Bob"
contact. Anyway as far as "Point of No Return," it was an amazingly
close remake anf I enjoyed it. I expected it to be much more
"americanized" then it was. Basically I would say that they are close
enough to decide on just whether or not you wanted subtitles...unless of
course you speak french.
Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 03:35:06 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: [Sorta OT] A new game and advice
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970721204754.2da71078@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <3.0.16.19970721204754.2da71078@*****.com>, Bull
<chaos@*****.COM> rambled on endlessly about [Sorta OT] A new game and
advice
<big snip>
>Anyways, here's the point of this post. What the hell do I do after that?
>It's been far too long since i ran AD&D, and more importantly, I want to
>eventually ween these players into more of a roleplaying atmosphere
>eventually. How would you suggest doing this? What would you do in a
>situation like this (Other than try to convice them to play SR. Maybe
>after the card game comes out I can transfer them from Magic, to SR CCG,
>then to SR RPG, but until them, this is what they want to play, and it's
>either this or play cards again...:)).
If you want to convert them from AD&D to SR, it's a relatively simple
process. I managed to convert three AD&D die hards that had no interest
at all in anything with even a slight SF inclination by telling them
Shadowrun ws AD&D with guns. After a while they cottoned on that it
wasn't. but they were having so much fun AD&D sort of got left by the
wayside never to be touched again.
Otrherwise just tell them you want a break from fantasy and how do they
fancy doing something completely different, but similar. Most people
are willing to try things at least once.
>Anyways, thanks, and feel free to take this private e-mail if the list
>feels this isn;t an appropriate topic...;]
It's not, but then it's you, and you haven't been inapropriate for at
least 8 hours, so...
:)
--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 20:22:18 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Zero-G Combat
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---"J. Keith Henry" wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-07-18 05:18:13 EDT, schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU
(Court
> Schuett) writes:
>
> > BTW, what is Zero-G fighting? Must have
> > missed that. Is that in the Missions adventures? Is that any
good?
>
> I apologize, as Zero-G and Blind Fighting (the skill) are stuff that
have
> been developed here in response by the characters wanting to
function better
> in every situation.
Possible spoilers for Harlequin (the original) below...
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
P
A
C
E
I
S
B
E
I
N
G
P
L
A
C
E
D
OK, not that it may tie into waht you guys are talking about here. But
if you remember, there is a scene on a suborbital in the Harlequin
campaign that deals with a fight during Zero-G and the required tests
to deal with it. If you haven't seen it, you might want to check it
out.
Thought it might be of interest, anyways.
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:55:13 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: SR-type movies (was: A Li'l Ole Question)
In-Reply-To: <199707220230.WAA07562@****.provide.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
> The US remake of "La Femme Nikita" was entitled "Point of No
Return", and
> it starred Bridget Fonda in the role of Nikita. Unlike most folks, I
> actually liked the remake quite a bit and felt it was well done. Also,
Hmmm... I thought it was called "The Assassin"? That's certainly what
it's titled in Australia.
Lady Jestyr
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
