From:	Unknown sender
Subject:	None
Date:	Unknown time and date

|
|It's been a while from when I read some posts about GenCon. I definitely
|will be there on 7th, who else?
|
|GRANITE, you still mantain this list?
|--------------------------------------------------------
|Nice people going to GenCon:

ACK!

Does <sob>
Does this mean, I'll be all alone??? <sob>

<SOB>
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 17:15:28 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OOC?

On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:54:18 +1000 Glenn Munro <eazy@*****.COM.AU>
writes:
>The man who made it did not want it;
>The man who bought it did not use it;
>The man who used it did not know it.

Unless he was a vampire..
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 17:15:28 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!

On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:58:04 EDT Peter David Boddy writes:

[snip Wendigo song :) and story]

Yeah, mix one wendigo, a "tribe" of Dour (little halfling sized, awakened
primates - borderline sentient, see PAoNA) and the sewers... Oh, and
don't forget the Cthulhu-inspired totem that the Wendigo followed. The
result is the run-in that my group had with a wendigo.

What started out as a simple meet with a contact, turned into something
QUITE different.
They were supposed to meet this guy at bar in the barrens (original
huh?), and after about two hours of waiting they started getting a bit
suspicious... after asking around they found some degenerate squatter who
knew something (of course given his stuttering, and attention problem it
took them a while to get it out of him) and led them to the guy's car
where he saw "a bunch of lil' fragger's jump 'im.." Using detection
spells and stuff the search headed into the sewers and into the dour's
territory (and the traps that come with it... one PC nearly drowned when
he got his leg caught in a spiked hole.). Eventually they came to the
center... still not seeing anything other than motions in the shadows,
just out of sight. And after getting a look at this very bizarre
statue... things started coming out of the wood-work, literally. The
wendigo controlled tribe of dour came out of every knook and cranny from
all sides... along with some protean-like spirits. They barely made it
out alive. I don't think one PC will ever go near a hairy ork ever
again, after he fatally (or so he thought - ain't regen cool) impaled it
with a Halberd (don't ask why he had it... I don't remember) and it
pulled the halberd out and flung him (still holding on to the other end)
across the cavern. After which, only the heavy application of flamebombs
enabled them to escape. They have know idea if the cult is still alive
or not, and are a bit more cautious when it comes to the barrens... and
down one contact.

~Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 22:19:14 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OOC?
In-Reply-To: <19970719.142201.4807.0.z-i-m@****.com> from "Tim Cooper" at
Jul
19, 97 05:15:28 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

|
|On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:54:18 +1000 Glenn Munro <eazy@*****.COM.AU>
|writes:
|>The man who made it did not want it;
|>The man who bought it did not use it;
|>The man who used it did not know it.

DAMN I hate riddles....
Especially ones I knew (and later forgot) the answers to....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 22:24:06 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OOC?
In-Reply-To: <4332.199707192119@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk> from "Spike"
at
Jul 19, 97 10:19:14 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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|
||
||On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:54:18 +1000 Glenn Munro <eazy@*****.COM.AU>
||writes:
||>The man who made it did not want it;
||>The man who bought it did not use it;
||>The man who used it did not know it.
|
|DAMN I hate riddles....
|Especially ones I knew (and later forgot) the answers to....

Errr..... Poison????
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 17:24:24 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OOC?

>>The man who made it did not want it;
>>The man who bought it did not use it;
>>The man who used it did not know it.
>
>Unless he was a vampire..


dingdingding.. we have ourselves a winnah!
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 19:02:28 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
In-Reply-To: <01BC940A.17C68040@********.u96.stevens-tech.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Sat, 19 Jul 1997, Jonathan Hurley wrote:

> But what about rifled small-arms? How do they deal with APDS ammo?
> I thought of three ways. One, (the easy way) was to make sure that the
> sabot did not expand enough to engage the rifling of the barrel. Two,
> placing inserts in the rifling of the barrel to change the weapon into a
> pseudo-smoothbore. Three, replacing the barrel with a smoothbore barrel.
> Four, not letting the PCs have APDS <g>.
Actually sabot rounds for long rifles exist today. They are called
"accelerator" rounds. You can buy them for the 30.06. The actual bullet
is a .22 cal but the plastic (I guess) makes up the difference. The
bullet discards the sabot and travels on to the target at 2 to 3 times
the speed of a similar .30 bullet.


I hope this helps

-Bill
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 02:13:38 +0000
Reply-To: trrkt@******.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Bows and crossbows
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hmmm...

I have recently created a character who has no Firearms skill, and
his main weapon (well, besides his hands and knives) is a bow. And,
when reviewing the SR rules concerning archery, I saw that bows were
severely shortchanged in comparison to crossbows.
I am talking about the rate of fire, which is the same in both cases
(simple action to ready and simple action to shoot). This is
ludicrous. After all, the main advantage of the bow was it's high
rate of fire...
So, I came up with this simple solution: make the readying of a bow
a free action (though I think this would require easy acces to
arrows, like stuck in the ground before you, or in a quiver on your
hip). This way, you get 3 shots from a bow each 2 combat phases,
whereas you get 2 shots from a crossbow each 2 combat rounds.
This makes bow slower then SA weapons (figures), faster then SS
weapons (kinda figures, too) and faster then crossbows (which are
still too fast... Maybe make readying a crossbow a complex action,
and increase the power slightly to reflect the power of your average
x-bow).
Oh, yeah, and arrows and bolts are resisted by Impact armor (I hope
this written somewhere...)

I also hope this is not one of the "once a week" topics on this
list... (It was not in the FAQ, anyway)...

Oh, yeah, the newbie intro (I hate that part):
Hello. I'm a newbie to this RPG biz. I joined this list 'cause I just
started playing ShadowRun. This is a really cool game, and makes for
a nice change after my four months AD&D campaign. At least I could
retire my level 19/19/19 Drow Fighter/Mage/Cleric that had attained
demigod status... I'm currently creating a similar character for SR.
My main complaint is that I have only one A category... This creation
system is Dumb. (And is there a ShadowRun Drow race? And what is this
funny "munchkin" term some people use on the Internet?).







<grin, duck & run>

Mike (Leszek Karlik): http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike/index.htm
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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!r-- y-*
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 19:22:05 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Dragons at the end of an age
In-Reply-To: <970718190802_1279902233@*******.mail.aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 07:09 PM 7/18/97 -0400, you wrote:
#In a message dated 97-07-18 01:27:18 EDT, daddyjim@**********.COM (Loki)
#writes:
#
#M
#e
#r
#c
#u
#r
#i
#a
#l
#
#S
#p
#o
#i
#l
#e
#r
#s
#
#f
#o
#r
#
#t
#h
#e
#
#U
#l
#t
#r
#a
#
#S
#e
#n
#s
#i
#t
#i
#v
#e
#
#>
#> Now, Perianwyr isn't a great dragon so this would seem to imply that
#> both great and lesser dragons both go into a sleep or stasis during
#> times of low/no mana.
#>
#Okay, now I admit that it was 7 years ago (6?), but I recall Perianwyr being
#a Great Western Dragon.
#-Keith

nope, it's just a western dragon

am running that scenario at the moment
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 02:51:50 +0000
Reply-To: trrkt@******.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Question concerning movement
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hmmm...

I have always thought that reflex enhancements, among other things,
allow one to, well, run like hell. This was mainly due to the story
in the SR2, where Nameless states that "movin' through a downtown
crowd at 70 kph isn't the smart thing to do". Also, when I saw that
initiative and reflex enhancements really do matter (unlike CP2020,
which is one of the reasons why I prefer SR to CP...), and that they
give additional actions, I thought: "That figures. With reflex
enhancement, I can have 2 or more combat phases a turn instead of the
normal one, so I can take two running actions and run at twice the
human rate...".
But recently, when translating the available Actions into Polish for
those unfortunate co-players of mine who don't know the language of
Shakespeare, I've found this little sentence in the "Movement"
section of "Combat" chapter:
"Characters who have multiple Actions may run only in one of those
Combat Phases, but it does not matter which."

Does this make sense?

Nope. (Run walk walk, walk run walk, walk walk run... Kinda stupid,
isn't it?)

So, what do you think about it?


Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
If the French won't buy our lamb we won't use their letters.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 21:01:32 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: SPELL: Totemform

On Sat, 19 Jul 1997 22:13:01 +0000 "Mike (Leszek Karlik)"
<trrkt@******.com> writes:

>> > This spell can be cast only by shamanic initiates.
>>
>> I really don't see why.
>
>Because it masks the aura. It is rather useful this way, and I think
>that since masking is only available to initiates...


I think it was the 'shamanic' part he was disputing...


>> > Range: Personal only


Why? Why wouldn't the Totem give the shaman the ability to pass such a
'gift' to another person?


>> That's not a terribly powerful spell, given that it's a Damage Code
>> higher than (Critter) form. An Initiate should be able to mask
his/her
>> form anyway, regardless of which form he or she appears in.
>
>Yes, but masking allows only to appear as a mundane human. An animal
>with a human aura in astral space is a pretty obvious give-away,
>isn't it? Now, think of the possibilities for the Rat shaman (you can
>spell-cast in the animal form, after all...).


I think your point on Masking is open to debate. What it says is that it
'hides the true nature of the magician's aura, allowing him to appear as
a mundane when assensed.' In my mind, at least, there's no reason he
shouldn't be able to make his aura appear as whatever the heck he wants,
it hides the aura's true appearance, I see no reason the initiate should
be limited to the appearance of a mundane or a non-initiate if he prefer
something else. One could assume, however, that a mundane of the
magician's race is the default appearance, else a dragon or one of the
<gasp> IE would be unable to appear as anything but a dragon or Immortal
Elf (we'll ignore the fact that such persons don't exactly obey the
normal game rules:)

While, I'm talking, your e-mail reply-to isn't getting over-ridden by the
listproc. You might have fewer problems with it if you leave the reply-to
blank...


--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 21:01:32 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkins - (Slight Rant)

On Sat, 19 Jul 1997 22:27:52 +0000 Khayman <gunnerhansen@********.DK>
writes:
>On 19 Jul 97 at 12:27, John E Pederson wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:19:54 +0200 Clen Cook <Clen@******.CO.ZA>
>writes:
>> >Let's face it - weren't we all Munchkins in the beginning?
>Hmmm, past experiences tell me that people who have never read or
>heard anything about the roleplaying world, be it scifi or D&D, will
>be most likely to build a character with the sole purpose of being
>the best & strongest.


Probably true. Also expect something similar out of those who read lots
of comic books:)


<snip'd>
>Just a question for you guys: 300-400 KP !?! How many KP do award in
>each game? how many games have you played?


Myself? Played? Eh, a handful. I don't usually manage more than a
half-dozen a year and awards were running approx. 7-10 Karma (yeah, it's
rather high), but that's lower than when I wasn't GM, when awards upwards
of 10 or 11 were low:) As for 300 to 400 Karma, that's just a guess. I
have no idea how much those two nitwits had munched into the characters
(1-2 year old characters in a monty haul campaign where two guys, one of
which was the GM, each played a character. NOTE: only a guess:) All I
really know is that they were close friends (at the time, anyway) and
that there weren't too many people to play SR or Werewolf or Vampire or
AD&D or whatever game system they were abusing this week:) and that they
played fast and loose with the rules (racial maximums? Different Karma
costs for skills and attributes? Role-playing? What? :) BTW, the highest
amount of Karma any character picked up that I know of (excepting the two
monsters above:) was about 56 or so, and that was my character:) Current
NPC stats for said character are worth around 500 or 600 Karma, just
guesstimating:)


>>
>> I think it's better if they are intro'd to a game by a guy who isn't a
>> munch and does a good job of not allowing munchkinning in his game. I
>> know I wouldn't have been a munchy at all if I hadn't been intro'd to
SR
>> by a pair of munchy-powergamer types (not that powergaming is bad:)
>>
>Right! Some discipline and strict teaching! That'll do the job : )


Well, that's what I think, anyway. It seems to work, so long as they
don't get turned over to a munchkin GM right after their first game or
three (guess what the crowd I play seems to have in excess?)


--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 04:24:23 +0000
Reply-To: trrkt@******.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Bows and crossbows
In-Reply-To: <yam7140.129.136867032@****.amigaworld.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hmmm...

> From: Barbie <barbie@**********.com>
> [snip bow-crossbow]
>
> I would rule that the crossbow needs a complex action to ready.
> And keep the bow at a simple action.
> Makes life easy for all and keeps the bow from been owerpowered.

Hmmm... Yeah, I kinda like it.

<stupid stuff I wrote at 3 am snipped>

> Yep its a coolgame.
> If you want some fancierstuff for character generation I suggest you to get a
> copy of
> the SR companion. Something like the drow is included too.

Yep, I know. However, I'm not living in States. I bought most of my
Star Wars rulebooks by direct mail order from States and it was
faster than waiting for them to appear in my local RPG shop. :((

> Munchkin, just stay a bit with us and you will know.

I know the term... I was just being kinda sarcastic. Still, I would
classify myself as a slight min-maxer (OK, so I do have powergaming
tendencies. Sue me. I guess it's from watching too many Seagal
movies... :P ).


Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
I looked up my wife's family tree - half the family were still living in it!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 04:24:23 +0000
Reply-To: trrkt@******.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Bows and crossbows
In-Reply-To: <199707200117.UAA16586@********.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hmmm...

From: mbreton@**.netcom.com (Matb)

> >ludicrous. After all, the main advantage of the bow was it's high
> >rate of fire...
>
> Mechanical crossbows, maybe?

I doubt it. Something like this should be mentioned, after all...

> >still too fast... Maybe make readying a crossbow a complex action,
> >and increase the power slightly to reflect the power of your average
> >x-bow).
>
> Crossbows need a power boost, considering the damage a Troll can wreak
> with a compound bow. (And then add on Dikoted arrowheads and a
> smartlink....)

Yeah, that's what I think, too... Like, add +2 to the power of
crossbow bolts... (Kinda figures, since they did pierce the armour
quite easily).

OTOH, Troll with a compound bow can and should wreak damage. Bow is
better than a crossbow, and x-bows are stronger only because they use
stronger materials, able to store more energy. Now, the bow has
longer arms, so a bow with a tensile strength of a crossbow bow would
be a truely fearsome weapon (and a one only usable by a troll...).

> It's why they're under the header "Impact Projectile Weapons" in the
> Weapons section. It's a bit clearer in the armor section.

OK... I see...

(intro snipped)

Ummm... I was just kidding about the AD&D and f/m/c character
(who, BTW, could not be created according to AD&D rules...).

> I've seen newbies try and pass off characters with all "A" priorities
> before, sigh. If you want a different creation system, take a gander
> at the Shadowrun Companion, which provides two alternatives.

Oh, yeah. I guess I should issue a small correction here:
In reality, I play RPG's from four years, and SR from 2 years. (I
also happen to like SR mechanics of successes, and prefer them to
adding of all the damn D6s in Star Wars...)

And, unfortunately, here in Poland my GM buys what is available, and
not what he wants... No Companion... <sigh>

> It's also got what comes closest to SR Drow, the Night Ones. They
> don't live underground, but they don't like daylight either (nor are
> they all ambidextrous or magic-users -- sorry, but I really hated Drow
> in AD&D, Drizz't included.)

Yeah. But AFAIK there were no Night Ones in the Fourth World, now
were they (OTOH ED shows only a small portion of the fourth world, so
one does not need to be constrained by the 8 Name-Giver races...).

> And, um, there aren't any Fighter/Mage/Clerics in SR. There aren't
> classes. (You could say mages are hermetics and clerics are shamans,
> but you can't be both.)

I know.. That's why I like non-classed systems (umm... that would be
GURPS, Star Wars, SR, Amber and lotsa others..). That's also why I
don't like CP2020...


Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
Phoneco.sys corrupted - recommend competitive market
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 04:24:23 +0000
Reply-To: trrkt@******.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Re: SPELL: Totemform
In-Reply-To: <19970719.210002.3135.3.lobo1@****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Hmmm...

> >> > This spell can be cast only by shamanic initiates.
> >> I really don't see why.
> >Because it masks the aura. It is rather useful this way, and I think
> >that since masking is only available to initiates...

> I think it was the 'shamanic' part he was disputing...

Oh, yeah. I see. Well, mages have no Totem, so this would be kinda
poinless for them (I suppose). A shamanic adept could cast
it, too...

> >> > Range: Personal only

> Why? Why wouldn't the Totem give the shaman the ability to pass such a
> 'gift' to another person?

Well, because draws directly on the strength of the totem, which is
given as a form of "reward" for the caster. (Also, it lowers the
drain code :P ).
But I see it could be disputable...


> >Yes, but masking allows only to appear as a mundane human. An animal
> >with a human aura in astral space is a pretty obvious give-away,
> >isn't it? Now, think of the possibilities for the Rat shaman (you can
> >spell-cast in the animal form, after all...).

> I think your point on Masking is open to debate. What it says is that it
> 'hides the true nature of the magician's aura, allowing him to appear as
> a mundane when assensed.' In my mind, at least, there's no reason he
> shouldn't be able to make his aura appear as whatever the heck he wants,
> it hides the aura's true appearance, I see no reason the initiate should
> be limited to the appearance of a mundane or a non-initiate if he prefer
> something else. One could assume, however, that a mundane of the
> magician's race is the default appearance, else a dragon or one of the
> <gasp> IE would be unable to appear as anything but a dragon or Immortal
> Elf (we'll ignore the fact that such persons don't exactly obey the
> normal game rules:)

Hmmm... Yeah, if the GM rules you're able to mask yourself as
whatever you want, I guess you're better off with a Personal
Critterform... :> Still, the only +1 for sustaining as a gift from
the totem is nice. (Of course, I would rule that it's not cumulative
with the Focussed Concentration. Or maybe it is? Darn, I guess it
would be worth the higher drain... Anyway, we have no Companion, thus
no E&Fs...)

> While, I'm talking, your e-mail reply-to isn't getting over-ridden by the
> listproc. You might have fewer problems with it if you leave the reply-to
> blank...

Thanks...

Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
Michael Cross - clan Nosferatu, computer hacker.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 23:13:02 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Kabael <kabael@****.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:06 PM 7/19/97 +0100, you wrote:
>|
>|It's been a while from when I read some posts about GenCon. I definitely
>|will be there on 7th, who else?
>|
>|GRANITE, you still mantain this list?
>|--------------------------------------------------------
>|Nice people going to GenCon:
>
>ACK!
>
>Does <sob>
>Does this mean, I'll be all alone??? <sob>
>
><SOB>

I SHOULD be going, if all goes according to plan (everyone cross your
fingers please!)

of course, no one really knows me on this list : )

k a b a e l meo the shoes :- ) kabael@****.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 23:12:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: I guess it had to happen sometime;
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
> Date: Friday, July 18, 1997 1:57 AM

> I don't know if I just don't watch enough tv or what, but I saw an add
> for "Magic The Gathering" on the sci-fi channel. If WotC is going to buy
> FASA, they better stop advertising and save their money. I assume that
> WotC does the card game. I don't play myself. I don't have the money to
> indulge a Shadowrun addiction and a Magic addiciton. Some of my freinds
> that are really into magic have sunk hundreds of $$ into that game. If
> had sunk that much I would have an almost complete library.

I had a similar problem a few years ago. I sunk a few hundred dollars into
MtG and had a very hard time keeping up with their quarterly updates.
Thus, I gave away (yes, GAVE) my several hundred dollar MtG collection.

Recently, I saw the MtG CD Rom game. I bought it. Why? Cause I can play
against the computer in an isolated environment without having to worry
about the computer picking up a bazillion starter packs that I don't know
anything about and can't design my deck around.

This has been the best solution I have ever seen (without just giving up
the game altogether).

> regards

> Bill

Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 06:10:44 +0000
Reply-To: trrkt@******.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Munchkin man :P
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hmmm...

I've been reading through the Paranoid Animals of NA, and saw the
Speed Samurai archetype...

What a wussie... :P

Now, think about that: a physical adept (or, better yet, physical
mage) with at least 1st grade initation (so he can have the +2D6
bioware and the max. adept initiative increase (+3D6) for IIRC 5
magic points...). Now, that gives him a 6D6 initiative, but that's
not all... Now, add an increase reflexes +3D6 spell, for a total of
9D6 initiative. And now Critterform him into a tiger or a panther,
for an additional 2D6 to initiative. Voila, a whopping 11D6
initiative, for an average roll of 33, whitout counting the reaction.
Make the critterform force 6, cast with 6 magic pool and 12 successes
(Karma and Team Karma), that adds +6 to all physical attributes of
the tiger, increasing the reaction by 3 (at least).

(I think I should be shot, to miminalize the suffering of my
immediate entourage. Heh. :P )

PS: Oh, yeah, the physical mage could cast spells in critterform.
Talk about a spellvindicator... :>

MUHAHAHAHAHAA!

(Of course, one could say that in critterform, the bioware bonus does
not apply... In that case, skip the critterform unless you want to
engage in HTH, or rather HTP combat. Still, you've got yourself an
adept with 9D6 initiative. Add the raise reaction power, raise
attribute spells and you've got one fast fragger. Also, he should be
rather high-graded init to mask all that Christmas lights, err..
spell locks. :P Or, while we're at it, give the initiate physad a
beta or delta-grade wired 3 instead of the bioware - if you allow
spell and cyberware stacking. Which is not appilcable in any sane
campaign...).


Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
I'm trying to find myself. Anyone seen me lately?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 14:07:21 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Skye Comstock <bilbo@****.NWLINK.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970719112456.00b88900@****.interware.it>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Skye (yes... parents approval pending)

No Money, No Go. I'd drive my '7 there, but it'd take forever
and I'd have to steal gas... ;)

-Skye
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 00:59:31 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkin man :P

On Sun, 20 Jul 1997 06:10:44 +0000 "Mike (Leszek Karlik)"
<trrkt@******.com> writes:
>Hmmm...
>
>I've been reading through the Paranoid Animals of NA, and saw the
>Speed Samurai archetype...
>
>What a wussie... :P
<snip>
>(I think I should be shot, to miminalize the suffering of my
>immediate entourage. Heh. :P )


I agree. Unfortunately, I don't have any firearms (of the lead
slug-throwing variety) so you'll have to make do with...THIS!
<sounds of whirring and clicking as portable fully-automatic carp
launcher is readied and aimed>
Safeties off <click>
FIRE!!!

THWAPTHWAPTHWAPTHWAPTHWAPTHWAPTHWAPTHWAP!

@#$%&! Give me a moment (one bad thing about carp launchers - you can't
fit many carp in a clip:)

:)
>PS: Oh, yeah, the physical mage could cast spells in critterform.
>Talk about a spellvindicator... :>


Hmm...I think I may have a carp grenade around here somewhere...

:)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 01:58:37 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:06 PM 7/19/97 +0100, Spike wrote these timeless words:
>|
>|It's been a while from when I read some posts about GenCon. I definitely
>|will be there on 7th, who else?
>|
>|GRANITE, you still mantain this list?
>|--------------------------------------------------------
>|Nice people going to GenCon:
>
>ACK!
>
>Does <sob>
>Does this mean, I'll be all alone??? <sob>
>
><SOB>
>
Nope...

Tinner will be around, that sad sack... Every year we make plans to do
Gen Con. and every year it falls thru. Well, we're finally doing it, and
he can';t go...

Well... At least he'll be around to Keep you company Spikey...;]

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 01:58:41 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 08:45 AM 7/18/97 -0800, Skye Comstock wrote these timeless words:
>>I hate you all!
>>
>>I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
>>
>>Argh!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>:]
>
>Hey, I think it was my idea, too. :] Did you read the posts, Bull? Bad!
>Bad Bad Bull! I'll send the armies of Free Spirit Woosps after you
>stupid children!
>
>-Skye, "Lets turn him into a purple Wendigo." :P
>
So it was YOUR idea, eh Skye? BAD skye... Bad Bad bad!!!!!

And no, I didn;t peek...:]

We did a little RP the other night, and I that's when the "change" started...

Bull


--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 02:36:00 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:27 PM 7/19/97 EDT, John E Pederson wrote these timeless words:
>On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 01:49:32 -0400 Bull <chaos@*****.COM> writes:
>>I hate you all!
>>
>>I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
>>
>>Argh!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>:]
>
>Sorry, but I couldn't help but laugh:) It's a bad habit of mine. In any
>case, Bull, look on the bright side: you're still alive! (Okay, if you
>want to nit-pick, I guess you're undead:) And you can start taking Magic
>lessons now:) And you can get recipes from the Mantids:):):) And there
>are worse things, at least the wendigos are sentient (something that
>can't be said about all vamps:) Of course, there's the small matter of a
>there being a bounty on your head...
>
Well... I'm certainly not happy about it...;]

>Question: if you're turning into a Wendigo, will your smiley and .sig
>change to reflect it:)
>
Not yet... i haven't actually turned INTO one yet... And hopefully I
won;t. As it is, it's REALLY putting a crimp in my marriage...

And why should the smiley change? Wendigo's have tusks...:]

Bull-who-REALLY-doesn't-want-to-eat-his-wife-and-kids
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 02:36:06 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkins - (Slight Rant)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:27 PM 7/19/97 +0000, Khayman wrote these timeless words:

>Just a question for you guys: 300-400 KP !?! How many KP do award in
>each game? how many games have you played?
>
Our games (both the games Tinner runs and mine) tend to net anywhere from 2
Karma to 10, with some reaching as high as 15 to 18. Of course, this isn;t
always for a one night game either.

A short one or two hour RP session with little combat will usually garner 2
Karma per player.

A normal one night run, with moderate threat level to the players, and a
decent amount of RP will net between 4 and 7 karma.

If a run last several nights, and involves a LOT of RP, and usually a High
threat level to the players, tehy can get anywhere up to around 10 Karma.
this is the most I've given out for one set of adventures (and it was a
four game session adventure).

With Tinner, we've gotten a little more. I think 18 was the highest paying
run we've had so far. this was a several night game that involved HEAVY
threat, a LOT of RP, and something along the lines of Saving The World
(tm). ((See the Cuthulhu run that I posted a few days ago fordetails on
this type of run)).

As for how many sessions we've played? Probably somewhere between 150-200
with these characters (the 400 karma one, in my case:)).

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 02:36:09 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Totems
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:31 AM 7/20/97 +1000, Chris Maxfield wrote these timeless words:
The one explanation that I cannot except is that
>they are Powers That Have Existed Since Before The Dawn Of Time. They damn
>well don't exist now in 1997 and so a good explanation is needed for where
>they came from by 2058.
>
While I agree that Totems are not PthESBtDoT, they are definately older
than you think...

What do you think Native American indians worshipped back a couple hundred
years ago (and even today), if not the memory of the totems from the last
age of magic?

There are no totems and magic Now, granted, though most of the native
american totems Do exist now. I think of them as "Sleeping", similar to
what it is theorized the Dragon's did. After all, with no mana, they're
powerless, as are their followers...

Granted, this doesn;t explain some of the Modern Totems, or the City totems...

I think this is a really wierd area, the thing with the totems...

Since I'm typing this already, I might as well formulate my own theories on
the subject. GM's have to do that sort of thing ya know...:]

BULL'S TOTEM THEORY:

((Warning: After thinking this through a bit, it starts to sound vaguely
like AD&D Gods, as well as "God's from hundreds of other Fantasy settings.
Deal with it. AD&D and SR have a lot in common, despite the vehement
dennials of most players.))

It's simple.

1. There are an infinate number of "greater Spirits" that live on the
metaplanes.

2. These spirits have a lot of power, but without "worshippers"
or"followers" of some kind, they cannot reach the "Plane of Man"
(What the
hell is our plane of existance called in SR?).

3. When a large enough group of people start to believe in something (Or
even a single person who believes strongly enough), like the Urban Gator
Totem, then one of the Greater Spirits can latch on and form itself around
this belief. The spirits grants power, but at the same time is shaped and
formed (and confined) by this belief. Thus, while some of the Totems
(suchs as the Native American Totems) have been around for thousand's of
years, gator, Leviathan, and Elvis has only been around sicne the Awakening.

4. Once "attuned" to their totem, whether by consious choice or by being
"chosen" by their totem, their opower is then linked with it. Thus, the
benifits and restrictions of a totem that must be followed, and the loss of
power should the Shaman turn away from his totem.

5. There may be different forms of the same Totem, as different "aspects"
of a Totem are called upon by different Shamans, thus allowing a Differnt
Greater Spirit to attach itself to that focus.

6. Insect Totems are NOT from this realm. rather, they are in essence
Minor Horrors, or something similar.

Ok, that's all I can think of now... Granted, it doesn;t all make perfect
sense, and as I mentioned before, smacks of AD&D or other fantasy concpts
(If any of you have read some of the recent Raymond Feist novels, I'm
actually basing the idea on the concept of how their gods work. Don;t ask
me to explain, though. I can;t. :] )

And, this will probably be the working theory behind my Totems and Shamans
in my game. I LIKE the idea of a Shaman being controlled and drawning
strength and power from a greater being. It makes the shaman more unique,
and gives them so many more Roleplaying oppurtunities...;]

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 02:36:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:08 PM 7/19/97 +0100, Spike wrote these timeless words:
>|Orks... Well... SR is probably the only game I know of where Orks are a
>|normal, viable race. AD&D came close with it's half orcs, but... That's
>|still not the same... And Orcs in Tolkien were pretty much the same as in
>|AD&D: Evil green beasties... They were also called Goblins in Tolkiens
>|books...
>
>Not the only one....
>
>Paladium had Orcs as player characters, along with Hobgoblins, goblins,
>changelings and Wolfen. 10 years ago.....
>
I'm not TOO familiar with Palladium's Fantasy RPG. but even in that,
despite allowing Orc Characters, weren't the Orc's still the "bad guy"? By
normal, viable race, I meant a race that WASN'T considered evil and
perfectly alright to slaughter at will...:]

>And quite a few LRP systems allow almost any race (that isn't unbalancing).
>
True, but once again... How many are Orc's simply "another race", rather
than being an Evil Race?

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 17:59:06 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Glenn Munro <eazy@*****.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Totems
In-Reply-To: <tcppop3.379731@***.hydra.com.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Bull spoke thusly:
>[snip: BULL'S TOTEM THEORY:]
>
>Ok, that's all I can think of now... Granted, it doesn;t all make perfect
>sense, and as I mentioned before, smacks of AD&D or other fantasy concpts
>(If any of you have read some of the recent Raymond Feist novels, I'm
>actually basing the idea on the concept of how their gods work. Don;t ask
>me to explain, though. I can;t. :] )
>
Hey Bull, have u read the swords/lost swords stuff by Saberhagen? People
came first and created gods. The Gods were real and believed they created
Humans. The forger god made some magic swords. Eventually poeple stopped
believing in gods but the magic swords remained.

>And, this will probably be the working theory behind my Totems and Shamans
>in my game. I LIKE the idea of a Shaman being controlled and drawning
>strength and power from a greater being. It makes the shaman more unique,
>and gives them so many more Roleplaying oppurtunities...;]
>
Yeah. I like the totem and shaman interacting...the shaman being guided by
a higher power...or asking for help :)

QuickFix

The man who made it did not want it;
The man who bought it did not use it;
The man who used it did not know it.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 01:15:51 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Totems
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 19 Jul 1997 23:36:09 PDT."
<3.0.16.19970720023702.31afdee6@*****.com>

>Ok, that's all I can think of now... Granted, it doesn;t all make perfect
>sense, and as I mentioned before, smacks of AD&D or other fantasy concpts
>(If any of you have read some of the recent Raymond Feist novels, I'm
>actually basing the idea on the concept of how their gods work. Don;t ask
>me to explain, though. I can;t. :] )

Actually, it sounds moslty like the Discworld model to me.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:10:13 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkin man :P
In-Reply-To: <199707200809.BAA03308@****.parc.xerox.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hmmm...

> >I've been reading through the Paranoid Animals of NA, and saw the
> >Speed Samurai archetype...
>
> <snip munchy, rule-jumping-up-and-down-on char. concept>
>
> Gurth, could you post the latest version of your speed elf?

a) Did this go to the list, or only to me?
b) Damn, I should have known there's a better, faster model on the
market... :P


Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
Since using your shampoo, my hair has come alive. Signed: Medusa.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:56:12 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Zephalin? [OT]
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970719092658.2e27ae1c@********.linknet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

John Dukes said on 9:30/19 Jul 97...

> (I have no idea how to spell zephalin :)

"Zephalin" :)

However, if you're referring to an airship with a rigid metal framework,
it's "zeppelin," after the German count von Zeppelin who invented them
somewhere around the last turn of the century. (To the best of my
knowledge, a "zephalin" doesn't exist... :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:56:13 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: White phosphorus (Re: [SR3] Things that always annoyed you in SR
In-Reply-To: <ufracv6k0g.fsf@*******.hanse.de>
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Shadowrun ML demon shadowrn-m said on 17:15/19 Jul 97...

> "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK> writes:
> > It's nasty, but far from being utterly and totally fatal. WP casualties
> > survive quite nicely today.
>
> Uhm - I find this pretty hard to believe, I have to admit. As far as I
> know having about 40% of your skin burned to third degree is already
> lethal

80%, I thought it was. At any rate I'd rather not find out :)

> and even hot water can cause third degree burns without any problems. So
> something that is sticky and burns a few hundred degrees (what IS the
> exact temperature, btw.)

Not sure. Thermite burns at about 2000 degrees, but WP is a lot cooler
IIRC.

> is causing third degree burns within fractions of a second... someone
> surviving being splashed with that stuff (without any special equipment,
> of course). Maybe if you only got a few drops... but whatever has been
> hit got a third degree burn, so if more than 40% of the body has been
> hit you are dead.

Maybe the way to find out who is right is to do some research into RL WP
wounds. My guess (based partly on what I read in Phoenix Command Special
Weapon supplement, and partly on my own reasoning) is that people close to
the blast get covered in lots of small particles that don't burn all that
long (small particle = large surface:volume ratio = short burn time), plus
a reasonably large number or bigger particles similar to normal grenade
fragments. Those further away only get to deal with the larger particles,
because they can travel further than the small, light ones.

From that, it looks to me like people close to the blast will get large
amounts of burns which will likely kill even with treatment, while those
further away get only a few burns that will only be life-threatening if
not treated soon.

SR actually simulates this: closeby you get to deal with a 14M explosion,
and with 7 dice behind it (per the Companion's optional rule) that isn't
very healthy. Anyone who survives that -- which are those targets away
from the center of the blast -- take 10L each turn for 15 turns, reduced
by impact armor and resisted _only_ with Body. Not many people can do
that, but if they get treatment soon it'll only give a few Light wounds.

> Yeah - but there is hardly anything you can do once a certain amount
> of skin has been burned... at least not nowadays. I could imagine,
> though, that in the future you'd have tanks with some special liquid
> that could take over the functions of the skin until the body had a
> chance to regenerate.

Bacta tanks :)

> Uhm. So what happens to the electronics and the rubber & plastic parts
> of the engine when they get exposed to flames that burn at several
> hundret degrees... my experience is that plastic, rubber and
> electronics don't really like this.

It'd have to be hit by burning particles, and the particles would have to
stick onto the wiring long enough to melt the plastic off large sections
of the wires. If it's just a glance then there'd probably be some melting
on some individual wires, but nothing serious unless they happen to touch
each other.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:56:12 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Orks & goblins
In-Reply-To: <33CF71FE.97A178DF@*********.com>
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Caun Haskins said on 7:39/18 Jul 97...

> Wow, wait a minuit, are you telling me that at one time orks and goblins
> were thought of as the same thing!! I always thought of them as totaly
> diferent races, they are adn will always be in my head totaly different.
> (I can't see the goblins in anybody's books the same as any oof my SR
> characters, That would just spoil my day!)

If you read The Hobbit, you'll find that the creatures called "orcs" in
other books are called "goblins" there. The intro in my copy states that
"/Orc/ is not an English word. It occurs in one or two places but is
usually translated /goblin/ (or /hobgoblin/ for the larger kinds). /Orc/
is the hobbits' form of the name given at that time to these creatures".

In Shadowrun, however, "ork" refers to Homo sapiens robustus, one of the
four major human subspecies that appeared after the Awkening; "goblin,"
however, is normally used to refer to Homo bestius, which are dwarfs
infected with the Human-Metahuman Vampiric Virus, but still (according to
the scientific name) human.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:28:22 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In-Reply-To: <4310.199707192106@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
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Spike said on 22:06/19 Jul 97...

> |Nice people going to GenCon:
>
> ACK!
>
> Does <sob>
> Does this mean, I'll be all alone??? <sob>
>
> <SOB>

It looks like only us non-Americans will be left... You won't be alone,
as a matter of fact it looks like we'll be rid of many of those obnoxious
Americans for a while ;)

BTW, since this started as a GenCon thing, who will be going to the
European version?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 04:52:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Deosyne <deosyne@*********.NET>
Organization: The War Machine
Subject: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hey kids, how's life? Had to do a brief stint in rehab for a bitty
relapse of the Crystal Entity, but I'm back. Ditched the WebTV unit and
finally assembled my 'puter, so g'head and bitch if the column width is
off. :) I'll fix it. BTW Gurth: about time to change the block in yer
sig; the geeks have probably found a way passed it. :) So what new toys
have the lovely folks at FASA dropped out in the passed couple months;
<hopeful>RBB2???</hopeful> One can dream.

Deosyne (Shawn Baumgartner)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:28:23 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Munchkin man :P
In-Reply-To: <199707200405.GAA13898@****.polbox.pl>
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Mike (Leszek Karlik) said on 6:10/20 Jul 97...

> I've been reading through the Paranoid Animals of NA, and saw the
> Speed Samurai archetype...
>
> What a wussie... :P

Fastest character you can make (AFAIK) with the standard character
generation rules (with the More Metahumans optional rule and without using
Cybertechnology, that is; with CT he gets up to 21+4D6).

> Now, think about that: a physical adept (or, better yet, physical
> mage) with at least 1st grade initation (so he can have the +2D6
> bioware and the max. adept initiative increase (+3D6) for IIRC 5
> magic points...). Now, that gives him a 6D6 initiative, but that's
> not all... Now, add an increase reflexes +3D6 spell, for a total of
> 9D6 initiative. And now Critterform him into a tiger or a panther,
> for an additional 2D6 to initiative. Voila, a whopping 11D6
> initiative, for an average roll of 33, whitout counting the reaction.
> Make the critterform force 6, cast with 6 magic pool and 12 successes
> (Karma and Team Karma), that adds +6 to all physical attributes of
> the tiger, increasing the reaction by 3 (at least).

There are several problems with the character you're talking about. First
and foremost, he/she CANNOT be made as a starting character, unless for
some reason your GM allows you to use Force Points for initiations (which
I definitely don't).

Second, and this uses a ruling by Tom Dowd that you probably aren't aware
of and which some people might heavily dispute (MC23, keep quiet, OK? :)
namely that only the highest initiative boost applies. That means your
character would have only +3D6, not +11D6.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:28:23 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Munchkin man :P
In-Reply-To: <199707200805.KAA28830@****.polbox.pl>
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Mike (Leszek Karlik) said on 10:10/20 Jul 97...

> > Gurth, could you post the latest version of your speed elf?
>
> a) Did this go to the list, or only to me?

Probably only to you, since you have (had?) a reply-to address set in your
mailer, which the list doesn't override, unfortunately.

> b) Damn, I should have known there's a better, faster model on the
> market... :P

The original Speed Sam was designed about a year before Cybertechnology
came out; a few months ago I upgraded him. If you want to I'll send you a
copy privately, since most subscribers to the list will have seen him
before.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:28:23 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Bows and crossbows
In-Reply-To: <199707200008.CAA01523@****.polbox.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Mike (Leszek Karlik) said on 2:13/20 Jul 97...

> So, I came up with this simple solution: make the readying of a bow
> a free action (though I think this would require easy acces to
> arrows, like stuck in the ground before you, or in a quiver on your
> hip). This way, you get 3 shots from a bow each 2 combat phases,
> whereas you get 2 shots from a crossbow each 2 combat rounds.

Erm... What exactly do you mean by "readying" a bow? Putting an arrow on
the bow? Drawing the string back so you can shoot the weapon? That'd mean
you can shoot the bow once per Combat Phase: you have to spend a Free
Action to "ready" it, and then a Simple Action to shoot, if I read you
correctly. *waits for Dvixen to point out the proper archery terms :) *

> This makes bow slower then SA weapons (figures), faster then SS
> weapons (kinda figures, too) and faster then crossbows (which are
> still too fast... Maybe make readying a crossbow a complex action,
> and increase the power slightly to reflect the power of your average
> x-bow).

I have a feeling I'm not quite on the same wavelength as you are, though,
since it looks to me like you still have the same ROF as a crossbow.

> Oh, yeah, and arrows and bolts are resisted by Impact armor (I hope
> this written somewhere...)

Yes, that's in the section about body armor (SRII page 242).

> I also hope this is not one of the "once a week" topics on this
> list... (It was not in the FAQ, anyway)...

Not exactly, it may have been brought up before (there's a big chance of
that) but definitely not on any regular basis, unlike several other
topics.

> Oh, yeah, the newbie intro (I hate that part):

Welcome to the list :)

> My main complaint is that I have only one A category... This creation
> system is Dumb.

Use the optional "add to 10" system from the Companion, then. That way you
can get two A priorities plus three E's :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 19:38:40 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Glenn Munro <eazy@*****.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
In-Reply-To: <tcppop3.379765@***.hydra.com.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Deosyne wrote:
>Hey kids, how's life? Had to do a brief stint in rehab for a bitty
>relapse of the Crystal Entity, but I'm back. Ditched the WebTV unit and
>finally assembled my 'puter, so g'head and bitch if the column width is
>off. :) I'll fix it. BTW Gurth: about time to change the block in yer
>sig; the geeks have probably found a way passed it. :) So what new toys
>have the lovely folks at FASA dropped out in the passed couple months;
><hopeful>RBB2???</hopeful> One can dream.
>
hope no longer! RBB2 is due to be released in sept IIRC :)
Woohoo!

Quickfix

The man who made it did not want it;
The man who bought it did not use it;
The man who used it did not know it.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 05:23:24 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Deosyne <deosyne@*********.NET>
Organization: The War Machine
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Glenn Munro wrote:
>
> Deosyne wrote:

<snippity me posting>

> hope no longer! RBB2 is due to be released in sept IIRC :)
> Woohoo!
>
> Quickfix

IIRC RBB2 has been scheduled for release several times. But as it is
already mid-July, I daresay FASA may stick to this one. :) The Westwind
2057... oohhhh... :)

Deosyne
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 06:00:41 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon

On Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:28:22 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:

>It looks like only us non-Americans will be left... You won't be alone,
>as a matter of fact it looks like we'll be rid of many of those
obnoxious
>Americans for a while ;)

Hey! We aren't ALL going....

~Tim (who has never been to, nor will probably ever be at GenCon.)

[Of course I'm going on vacation for a week starting in.. Oh...7 hours,
then home for 2 weeks, then off to Canada for nearly 2 more weeks... then
back to school..]
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 04:48:57 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Target:UCAS
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

WooHoo! :)
Target:UCAS finally got here, and I picked it up, along with Stranger Souls
and the Merideth Brooks CD. I haven't finished reading it entirely, but
I've skimmed it for the quotes, and it seems like a pretty good book.
I haven't gotten a chance to even open Stranger Souls yet, but I think I'll
do that now.. And the Merideth Brooks CD is not bad, but I can see it
getting repetitive quickly.

I'M EVEN ON THE SAME PAGE AS FASTJACK! :):):):):):):):) ^ :)

-Adam

http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
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-
"Whoever said never trust a dragon obviously never met a politician."
-- Me, in 'Target: UCAS'
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 05:52:04 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Willpower & the Common Mage (was Re: [SR3] Combat Spells)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Totems choose their shaman for their own reasons, and I'd see Willpower as
> awfully low on that priority list. Personality would be foremost by far.
> Then perhaps destiny. Why bother taking some guy who happens to be
> strong-willed if he doesn't have a personality anywhere near that of the
> Totem? The guy'd never be able to use his magic anyway. If totems chose
> their shaman by willpower, every shaman would be an albino dwarf and no
> totem would ever think to pick a troll.
>
TopCat ^

Totems are part of the shaman, inseprable, the totem's personality IS
the shamans personality. (personalitys are somtimes surpresed though)

Caun :}

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<HTML>

<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<PRE>Totems choose their shaman for their own reasons, and I'd see Willpower as
awfully low on that priority list.&nbsp; Personality would be foremost by far.
Then perhaps destiny.&nbsp; Why bother taking some guy who happens to be
strong-willed if he doesn't have a personality anywhere near that of the
Totem?&nbsp; The guy'd never be able to use his magic anyway.&nbsp; If totems
chose
their shaman by willpower, every shaman would be an albino dwarf and no
totem would ever think to pick a troll.</PRE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
TopCat ^

<P>Totems are part of the shaman, inseprable, the totem's personality IS
the shamans personality. (personalitys are somtimes surpresed though)

<P>Caun :}</HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 05:02:12 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: [Admin] HTML Posting
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Caun Haskins, the copy of Netscape mail you're posting with is sending
stuff as HTML, please try to correct that problem. I think I saw one other
HTML post tonight, but it may have been on another list..
Anyways, not all email programs read HTML, and it takes extra time to load
into the ones that do, and its not nessesary, so, no HTML please :)
-Adam

http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
GC3.1 GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
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-
"Whoever said never trust a dragon obviously never met a politician."
-- Me, in 'Target: UCAS'
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 12:11:17 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Totems
In-Reply-To: <199707200815.BAA03330@****.parc.xerox.com> from "Benjamin"
at
Jul 20, 97 01:15:51 am
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|
|>Ok, that's all I can think of now... Granted, it doesn;t all make perfect
|>sense, and as I mentioned before, smacks of AD&D or other fantasy concpts
|>(If any of you have read some of the recent Raymond Feist novels, I'm
|>actually basing the idea on the concept of how their gods work. Don;t ask
|>me to explain, though. I can;t. :] )
|
|Actually, it sounds moslty like the Discworld model to me.
|
That's what I was thinking too....
BULL! If you haven't already, READ SMALL GODS!
You won't regret it.... :)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
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|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 12:14:50 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
In-Reply-To: <33C745DC.6D6BFAEC@*********.net> from "Deosyne" at Jul 12,
97 04:52:45 am
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|
|Hey kids, how's life? Had to do a brief stint in rehab for a bitty
|relapse of the Crystal Entity, but I'm back. Ditched the WebTV unit and
|finally assembled my 'puter, so g'head and bitch if the column width is
|off. :) I'll fix it. BTW Gurth: about time to change the block in yer
|sig; the geeks have probably found a way passed it. :) So what new toys
|have the lovely folks at FASA dropped out in the passed couple months;
|<hopeful>RBB2???</hopeful> One can dream.

How does Shadowrun 3rd Edition grab you?
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 12:18:30 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [Admin] HTML Posting
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970720050212.006db114@****.lis.ab.ca> from "Adam
J"
at Jul 20, 97 05:02:12 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|
|Caun Haskins, the copy of Netscape mail you're posting with is sending
|stuff as HTML, please try to correct that problem.

Good grief! And Ididn't spot it....
It looks like ELM might be learning to ignore that rubbish.....

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 05:31:55 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: [Admin] HTML Posting
In-Reply-To: <4780.199707201118@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:18 7/20/97 +0100, you wrote:
>|
>|Caun Haskins, the copy of Netscape mail you're posting with is sending
>|stuff as HTML, please try to correct that problem.
>
>Good grief! And Ididn't spot it....
>It looks like ELM might be learning to ignore that rubbish.....

I hope its being upgraded, and not just mutating on its own :)
I suppose that within the year, all mailers will be able to read and write
rtf formatted stuff.. :(

-Aj
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
GC3.1 GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
-
"Whoever said never trust a dragon obviously never met a politician."
-- Me, in 'Target: UCAS'
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 06:31:11 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: [Admin] HTML Posting
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Thanks for the notice, I didn't notice, my brother must have rest the
defaults! isn't family wonderful! Is this better?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 05:40:03 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: [Admin] HTML Posting
In-Reply-To: <33D0B37F.C1F848E9@*********.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 06:31 7/19/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Thanks for the notice, I didn't notice, my brother must have rest the
>defaults! isn't family wonderful!

NO <g>

>Is this better?

Yup, thanks :)

-Aj
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
GC3.1 GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
-
"Whoever said never trust a dragon obviously never met a politician."
-- Me, in 'Target: UCAS'
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 12:42:17 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [Admin] HTML Posting
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970720053155.006e38ac@****.lis.ab.ca> from "Adam
J"
at Jul 20, 97 05:31:55 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

|I hope its being upgraded, and not just mutating on its own :)
|I suppose that within the year, all mailers will be able to read and write
|rtf formatted stuff.. :(

ELM is a pure, simple little mailer....
It CAN read mime, sometimes, when it feels like it.
I doubt anyone will put RTF treatment into it though, because it only links
in with text (ASCII ONLY) editors....

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 06:56:12 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: [Admin] HTML Posting
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> isn't family wonderful!
>
> NO
>
Get a dictionary, look up RHETORICAL I believe that is one of the
examples!
It's a Webster standard by now!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 09:09:04 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: SPELL: Totemform
Comments: To: trrkt@******.com

In a message dated 97-07-19 15:09:19 EDT, trrkt@******.com (Mike (Leszek
Karlik)) writes:

>
> Drain: (F/2+1)S
> Target number: 6
> Duration: Sustained (the modifier for sustaining the spell is only +1
> instead of +2)
> Range: Personal only
> Effect: The spell works like the (Critter) Form spell from the
> Grimoire, allowing the caster to morph into one, predetermined animal
> (namely - your Totem animal). It's effects are similar to the
> Shapechange spell (shaman can cast spells in animal form, use
> critter's physical attributes plus one-half the casting successes and
> caster's mental attributes, the clothing and equipment does not
> change with the caster), but the modifier for sustaining the spell is
> only +1 instead of +2. Also, it allows the caster to mask the aura as
> an aura of the totem animal. It works as the initiate masking, but
> with one/half of the initiate's grade (round up).
>
Okay, this is good. I know of a particular shaman who definitely wants this
one. He's a Gargoyle Shaman, and it would simply make his day. The basic of
the spell is cool, and the +1 vs. +2 modifier for a specific category of
animal that is "Totem" oriented is okay I guess. As for the masking, hate to
say it, but the GM('s) in question tricked ya guy. Initiate Masking is
ALWAYS going. Now, what I think you may have been suggesting is that the
spell is incorporated into the shaman's initiated aura.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 09:12:35 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Shapers vs. Vampires (was: Re: Argh!!!) (yeah,
this is probably an old topic)

In a message dated 97-07-19 17:02:58 EDT, barbie@**********.COM writes:

>
> >-Canthros (one nice thing about shapeshifters: they don't get HMHVV,
> >AFAIK:)
>
> I strongly hope the can`t or my GM would surely try this to hurt me
anymore.
>
Hey Barbie, here's a nightmarish thought. Shapeshifter's in SR are more or
less like were's in other game systems, except for the Infection part.
Vampires in SR, at least when the game first started out, weren't however.
It's a disease, a physical one, that enacted the change. Now a shaper's
healing factor's are great against the physical wounds from attacks and the
like, but not those inflicted by disease and such. I would say be very glad
indeed.
-Keith (hey the stories of a the Vampire becoming a Wolf had to start
somewhere)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 09:16:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: SPELL: Totemform
Comments: To: trrkt@******.com

In a message dated 97-07-19 18:46:06 EDT, trrkt@******.com (Mike (Leszek
Karlik)) writes:

>
> Yes, but masking allows only to appear as a mundane human. An animal
> with a human aura in astral space is a pretty obvious give-away,
> isn't it? Now, think of the possibilities for the Rat shaman (you can
> spell-cast in the animal form, after all...).
>
>
Oops Mike, I get your point now. I still think for the drain you had to
keep, that the masking of the "animal/totem" form should be equal to the
initiates' own. I did see an advantage in the spell could easily exceed the
caster's own initiation level.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 09:17:15 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon

In a message dated 97-07-19 18:54:27 EDT, u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK (Spike)
writes:

> |--------------------------------------------------------
> |Nice people going to GenCon:
>
> ACK!
>
> Does <sob>
> Does this mean, I'll be all alone??? <sob>
>
>
Why no Spike, it mean's you'll be stuck with me...
-Keith
(EWG)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 14:51:57 -0700
Reply-To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: Orks & goblins
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> In Shadowrun, however, "ork" refers to Homo sapiens robustus, one of the
> four major human subspecies that appeared after the Awkening; "goblin,"
> however, is normally used to refer to Homo bestius, which are dwarfs
> infected with the Human-Metahuman Vampiric Virus, but still (according to
> the scientific name) human.

<gripe>
That's kind of funny. Vampires, Wendigos (hi Bull) and Banshees are
given completely different taxonomies, and the Dzoo-Noo-Qua of PANA are
homo saevitias. All are infected with the same virus, and none really
have the benefit of social acceptance.

But saying that they're another species instead of homo sapiens is a
little like calling AIDS victims homo HIVus... (and yes, I understand
the deep social commentary being made.)


-Matt
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:13:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon

In a message dated 97-07-20 02:09:39 EDT, chaos@*****.COM (Bull) writes:

>
> Tinner will be around, that sad sack... Every year we make plans to do
> Gen Con. and every year it falls thru. Well, we're finally doing it, and
> he can';t go...
>
> Well... At least he'll be around to Keep you company Spikey...;]
>
> Bull
>
Oh god, now Tinner...the things we could do to this list....
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:14:35 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Argh!!!

In a message dated 97-07-20 02:41:11 EDT, chaos@*****.COM (Bull) writes:

> >
> Not yet... i haven't actually turned INTO one yet... And hopefully I
> won;t. As it is, it's REALLY putting a crimp in my marriage...

Hey, maybe that Salonist would be a good idea after all. I mean, he can give
you lessons on how to part your new hair as it comes in all...

> And why should the smiley change? Wendigo's have tusks...:]

Yeah, really big tusks, big mean nasty teeth (down rabbit!!!)
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 22:44:26 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Totems
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970720023702.31afdee6@*****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 02:36 20/07/97 -0400, Bull wrote:
>What do you think Native American indians worshipped back a couple hundred
>years ago (and even today), if not the memory of the totems from the last
>age of magic?

Or maybe a tribal belief system with a strong basis in wisdom but with no
more basis in reality than the tooth fairy. :-) Ah - can I have a tooth
fairy shaman? Now what would my totem bonuses be?

<<snip>>
>3. When a large enough group of people start to believe in something (Or
>even a single person who believes strongly enough), like the Urban Gator
>Totem, then one of the Greater Spirits can latch on and form itself around
>this belief. The spirits grants power, but at the same time is shaped and
>formed (and confined) by this belief. Thus, while some of the Totems
>(suchs as the Native American Totems) have been around for thousand's of
>years, gator, Leviathan, and Elvis has only been around sicne the Awakening.
<<snip>>
>Ok, that's all I can think of now... Granted, it doesn;t all make perfect
>sense, and as I mentioned before, smacks of AD&D or other fantasy concpts
>(If any of you have read some of the recent Raymond Feist novels, I'm
>actually basing the idea on the concept of how their gods work. Don;t ask
>me to explain, though. I can;t. :] )

Yep. I've read this explanation for the origin of gods in both Raymond
Feist's Rift War books and in Terry Pratchett's 'Small Gods'.

My preference for totems, however, is that they only exist in and are
created in an age of magic. They are beings created in the metaplanes
through the mysteries of magic from the essence (spirit?) of belief and as
a focus of belief. While the age of magic lasts they exist and when the age
of magic dies so too do the totems truly die. As they are created by
belief, this belief defines their nature and powers, and also limits their
actions. They are nevertheless objectively independent beings with their
own, possibly unknowable, agenda.

For this reason, the way I prefer to view totemic 'choosing' is as more of
a resonance between the totem and a magically active person with a similar
nature. If the person is sensitive enough to be aware of this resonance and
acknowledges the link then they gain a spirit guide and a totem. I know -
very hermetic. :-)

I still haven't decided, though, whether or not totems are fully sentient
or are non-self aware metaplanar constructs of shamanic belief. ;->

Chris

_______________________________________________________________
Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:20:25 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon

In a message dated 97-07-20 00:59:22 EDT, bilbo@****.NWLINK.COM (Skye
Comstock) writes:

>
> No Money, No Go. I'd drive my '7 there, but it'd take forever
> and I'd have to steal gas... ;)
>
> -Skye
>
>
Hey Spike, our party's growing yet...
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 15:17:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
In-Reply-To: <33CF71FE.97A178DF@*********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0

In article <33CF71FE.97A178DF@*********.com>, Caun Haskins
<caun@*********.COM> rambled on endlessly about Dark Conspiracy (Was -
Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
>Wow, wait a minuit, are you telling me that at one time orks and goblins
>were thought of as the same thing!! I always thought of them as totaly
>diferent races, they are adn will always be in my head totaly different.

By the Tolkien mythology, which seems a strong influence in the fantasy
genre, orks are a race derived from Elves. They are in fact Sauron's
corruption created from his desire to become like the creator. He
used/uses Elves to create the Orks. Orks, however are more than capable
of breeding, and hence you get variations on the theme.

The Uruk Hai, were to all intents and pruposes the genetic masterpiece
of the Ork race, powerful, tough, intelligent and mean as hell. A true
opponent to the Elven nations.

>(I can't see the goblins in anybody's books the same as any oof my SR
>characters, That would just spoil my day!) Well I gues The Fantasy gener
>is still under construction, where will it go next? and we learn
>somthing new every day on the ShadowRN discusion group!

AD&D took Goblins and turned them into what were effectively
miniaturised Orks. However, they still ranked them into the "Giantish"
sub-class (IIRC)

--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 10:48:02 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Orks & goblins
Comments: To: mbreton@**.netcom.com

In a message dated 97-07-20 09:38:34 EDT, mbreton@**.netcom.com (Matb)
writes:

>
> But saying that they're another species instead of homo sapiens is a
> little like calling AIDS victims homo HIVus... (and yes, I understand
> the deep social commentary being made.)
>
>
That is good Matt, because those would have been major fighting words. Not
for myself, but those I've known.

On the other topic of Orc, Goblins, etc...has anyone come up with their own
home grown "ork" and "troll" variations that are NOT in the companion?
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 15:13:02 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970718221917.2faf8e5c@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0

In article <3.0.16.19970718221917.2faf8e5c@*****.com>, Bull
<chaos@*****.COM> rambled on endlessly about We Don't Need No Stinkin'
Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
>At 03:54 PM 7/18/97 -0700, Caric wrote these timeless words:
>>Avenger wrote:
>
>>> Fascinating, in five years of playing Shadowrun, none of my players have
>>> had characters, even the long term ones, anywhere near this Karma total.
>>> Boy am I going to lynched if they find out. :)
>>
>>Us either...I think I had the highest total ever with somewhere in the
>>neighborhood of 200.
>>
>Well... Consider this...
>
>We played AT LEAST twice a week for a year, and at least once a week the
>second year. Things have been a bit more sparse since then, but I'd have
>to say we've played something like over 100 game sessions in the last 4
>years with these characters. That averages out to 4 Karma a night, which
>sounds right on par...;]

My guys played every weekend, religiously up unitl just before Christmas
last year, Saturday nights were Shadowrun night, in preference to
anything else. At the moment we're playing every second weekend so that
those who have a life, can indulge in it. <scarey people - those who
have a life that is> :)

With the new characters, they've had three sessions now, and haven't
earned one Karma point yet. Hmm... maybe I'm just a stingy git. :) But
I don't feel like awarding Karma after every session, regardless of
whether the players feel they've earned it. Karma gets awarded at the
end of the "scenario/campaign", and it's not usually high, unless
they've had a _really_ tough time of it.

I think the highest Karma a character has had, is 182, and that was a
three year old once a week character.

--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:18:01 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon

On Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:28:22 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>Spike said on 22:06/19 Jul 97...
>
>> |Nice people going to GenCon:
>>
>> ACK!
>>
>> Does <sob>
>> Does this mean, I'll be all alone??? <sob>
>>
>> <SOB>
>
>It looks like only us non-Americans will be left... You won't be alone,
>as a matter of fact it looks like we'll be rid of many of those
obnoxious
>Americans for a while ;)


:P~~~ HA! I'm staying ('course, that's cause i have no way of getting to
GenCon even if I had the money or time to do it...)


>BTW, since this started as a GenCon thing, who will be going to the
>European version?


Not me:)


--
-Canthros-the-obnoxious-American-shapeshifter-mage :)
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 16:38:43 -0700
Reply-To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: Orks & goblins
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> > But saying that they're another species instead of homo sapiens is a
> > little like calling AIDS victims homo HIVus... (and yes, I understand
> > the deep social commentary being made.)

> That is good Matt, because those would have been major fighting words. Not
> for myself, but those I've known.

Sorry if the "deep social commentary" sounded a little sarcastic; it was
anything but. I've found that, like metahumans, HMHVV can be used as a
way to talk about real-life issues without (necessarily) provoking
sensibilities.

(rambling personal recollection)

Back in high school, we had a small gaming group, maybe seven or eight
kids, the 'outcasts' of our very Jesuit high school. (We all happened
to be honor students, too. Funny, innit?) And one of the first things
that we noticed about SR was that vampires and wendigos /weren't/ orks
and humans, despite being called a "human subspecies" in the flavor
text. (Why were Wengigos the first thing we noticed? Color plates, my
friend.) Quite a few of us had oddball theories on it, but I can
remember the slightly shocked look on my good friend John's face.

John was the only gay person that I knew of in the school, and as far as
I knew, I was the only straight guy he had ever told. We were talking
later - we almost never talked about gaming outside of sessions - and he
told me that his lover (college guy, junior, forget his name) had been
diagnosed with AIDS. This was 1989, and while a few social institutions
were beginning to offer assistance, by and large the public opinion
seemed to be that if you got AIDS, you would die and *no one cared*. To
see something so extraordinarily similar made Shadowrun a *very* dark
future, for him.

Whew. Been a while since I went that deep into the memory vault. I'll
stop before I get carried away.

(/rambling personal recollection)


It is difficult to talk about some things, and, unfortunately (no slur
meant against you by-and-large very cool listmembers) I've often found
that a lot of gamers fall easily for some stereotypes... too much "us
v. them", I guess. Having seen ghouls and vampires used as pure evil in
some campaigns, I wanted to expose another possible side to the issue.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 17:29:31 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Shapers vs. Vampires (was: Re: Argh!!!) (yeah,
this is probabl
In-Reply-To: <970720091233_42267078@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

At 20-Jul-97 wrote J. Keith Henry:


>>
>Hey Barbie, here's a nightmarish thought. Shapeshifter's in SR are more or
>less like were's in other game systems, except for the Infection part.
> Vampires in SR, at least when the game first started out, weren't however.
> It's a disease, a physical one, that enacted the change. Now a shaper's
>healing factor's are great against the physical wounds from attacks and the
>like, but not those inflicted by disease and such. I would say be very glad
>indeed.

Oh shit. . . . . . .
glad none of the others of my group are on the list yet . . . so I feel a
little
bit save for know.
This would ruin my character utterly my since I`m awaiting a litter of five
and my sone-to-be husband is very creased about it.
He`s a elf after all. Remember the offsping question from me ???
Become a vampire too would definetly kick the character out of the game
without killing her. . . she would be way to powerfull too. . .

--
Barbie, the-panther-shapeshifter-phoenix-shaman


==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.

(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)

==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 17:55:57 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Munchkin man
In-Reply-To: <199707200405.GAA13898@****.polbox.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

At 20-Jul-97 wrote Mike (Leszek Karlik):

MUNCHKIN ALARM TAKE COVER


>I've been reading through the Paranoid Animals of NA, and saw the
>Speed Samurai archetype...

Speed Samurai in the PnAoNA ??
How did you do that ??

>Now, think about that: a physical adept (or, better yet, physical
>mage) with at least 1st grade initation (so he can have the +2D6
>bioware and the max. adept initiative increase (+3D6) for IIRC 5
>magic points...). Now, that gives him a 6D6 initiative, but that's
>not all... Now, add an increase reflexes +3D6 spell, for a total of
>9D6 initiative. And now Critterform him into a tiger or a panther,
>for an additional 2D6 to initiative. Voila, a whopping 11D6
>initiative, for an average roll of 33, whitout counting the reaction.
>Make the critterform force 6, cast with 6 magic pool and 12 successes
>(Karma and Team Karma), that adds +6 to all physical attributes of
>the tiger, increasing the reaction by 3 (at least).

Take a shapshifter leopard or tiger physical shaman instead.
8d6 in humanform or 10 d6 in animal form.
If the GM allows you can even add a synaptic 2
going for 10d6/12d6
the only problen is the implantation of the BW and you should at least be an
initiate 2 to counter the magic loss..

>(I think I should be shot, to miminalize the suffering of my
>immediate entourage. Heh. :P )

Fire at will guys!!!!


>(Of course, one could say that in critterform, the bioware bonus does
>not apply... In that case, skip the critterform unless you want to
>engage in HTH, or rather HTP combat. Still, you've got yourself an
>adept with 9D6 initiative. Add the raise reaction power, raise
>attribute spells and you've got one fast fragger. Also, he should be
>rather high-graded init to mask all that Christmas lights, err..
>spell locks. :P Or, while we're at it, give the initiate physad a
>beta or delta-grade wired 3 instead of the bioware - if you allow
>spell and cyberware stacking. Which is not appilcable in any sane
>campaign...).

With the critterform spell you will loss the BW/CW effects.
And theres something beter to do than initiate to counter the magic loss
from implants with your karma. belive me I know.


BTW I go with 30 + 6d6 and a +15 from taccomp and since we have
a battleTAC link which adds another 10-20 (operator dependant).
i can savely say I`m real fast and the others are only 20 points behind me
:-)))


MUNCHKIN ALARM OVER ALL IS SAFE AGAIN

please keep your replay to field clear it makes live easier for us

--
Barbie


==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.

(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)

==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 18:08:10 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy (Was - Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
In-Reply-To: <5k2g1EA+3h0zEwgQ@*******.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

At 20-Jul-97 wrote Avenger:


>By the Tolkien mythology, which seems a strong influence in the fantasy
>genre, orks are a race derived from Elves. They are in fact Sauron's
>corruption created from his desire to become like the creator. He
>used/uses Elves to create the Orks. Orks, however are more than capable
>of breeding, and hence you get variations on the theme.

Not truly wrong but not truly right.
Morgoth created the Orcs from the Elves trough genetic manipulation
of Elves .
See the Simarilion from JRR its covers the first ages and is written before
the LotR but published afterwards because all puplishers he contacted
doesn`t wanted the book because it was so dark.

--
Barbie


==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.

(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)

==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 12:17:02 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]

On Saturday, July 19, 1997 20:33, Barbie[SMTP:barbie@**********.COM] wrote:
> At 18-Jul-97 wrote Caric:
>
>
> >Us either...I think I had the highest total ever with somewhere in the
> >neighborhood of 200.
>
> As I have mention at the beginning of the week I have just crossed
> 500 karma :-]

In may campaign, I have a few people close to the 300 mark, and one
approaching 400. OTOH, I have been running the same campaign for ~5 years,
with various players, and some of the PCs have retired for a while. Also,
if the player says "I don't know what to do with my karma," I reccommend
retirement for a while.

--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 12:16:19 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkin man

In a message dated 97-07-20 12:00:23 EDT, barbie@**********.COM (Barbie)
writes:

>
>
> BTW I go with 30 + 6d6 and a +15 from taccomp and since we have
> a battleTAC link which adds another 10-20 (operator dependant).
> i can savely say I`m real fast and the others are only 20 points behind me
> :-)))
>
>
Uh, Barbie, how in the name of the ghost do you pull off a 30? I've seen the
17 to 21 on a "speed freak" but beyond that, I don't know. I'm muy
curiosantes...
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:27:28 +0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@*****.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In-Reply-To: <199707200926.LAA07192@*****.xs4all.nl>

On 20 Jul 97 at 11:28, Gurth wrote:

> It looks like only us non-Americans will be left... You won't be
> alone, as a matter of fact it looks like we'll be rid of many of
> those obnoxious Americans for a while ;)

Well, not exactly. This obnoxious American will still be around. And
I think Bull said Tinner will not be going either....

Sorry, guys. :)

--

===DREKHEAD==================================drekhead@***.net====
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
=================================================================
Diplomacy - the art of letting someone have your way.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 12:37:11 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Well, not exactly. This obnoxious American will still be around. And
> I think Bull said Tinner will not be going either....

Nope, that nasty job thing is going to interfere. :-(

However, I'm making Bull take a totemic/voodoo totem of me to carry around
so that I can enjoy the con vicariously! ;-)

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:44:58 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: [Admin] HTML Posting
In-Reply-To: <4821.199707201142@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:42 PM 7/20/97 +0100, you wrote:
#|I hope its being upgraded, and not just mutating on its own :)
#|I suppose that within the year, all mailers will be able to read and write
#|rtf formatted stuff.. :(
#
#ELM is a pure, simple little mailer....
#It CAN read mime, sometimes, when it feels like it.
#I doubt anyone will put RTF treatment into it though, because it only links
#in with text (ASCII ONLY) editors....

Well, if your .mailcap is setup correctly AND you are using an x server,
you already can read rtf files with elm, spawning an RTF viewer, instead of
more or less.
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 21:25:43 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkin man
In-Reply-To: <yam7140.2885.136475920@****.amigaworld.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hmmm...

> MUNCHKIN ALARM TAKE COVER

<wide, sheepish grin>

(or is that carpish grin?)

> >I've been reading through the Paranoid Animals of NA, and saw the
> >Speed Samurai archetype...
>
> Speed Samurai in the PnAoNA ??
> How did you do that ??

OK, so maybe it was in some other Plastic Warriors... I've read
through all of them in one night, so I could have made a mistake...

<munchkin example shown cloaked>

> Take a shapshifter leopard or tiger physical shaman instead.
> 8d6 in humanform or 10 d6 in animal form.
> If the GM allows you can even add a synaptic 2
> going for 10d6/12d6
> the only problen is the implantation of the BW and you should at least be an
> initiate 2 to counter the magic loss..

Damn. I know I SHOULD have persuaded my GM to get that SR Companion
through mail order, not matter what the cost. :>
I wonder when will it be available in here...

> >(I think I should be shot, to miminalize the suffering of my
> >immediate entourage. Heh. :P )
>
> Fire at will guys!!!!

Thwapthwapthwapthwap. <click>
Oh well...

<FZOOK>


.
> >spell locks. :P Or, while we're at it, give the initiate physad a
> >beta or delta-grade wired 3 instead of the bioware - if you allow
> >spell and cyberware stacking. Which is not appilcable in any sane
> >campaign...).
>
> With the critterform spell you will loss the BW/CW effects.
> And theres something beter to do than initiate to counter the magic loss
> from implants with your karma. belive me I know.

Yep. I know it too, but this was about speed, not other abilities...

> BTW I go with 30 + 6d6 and a +15 from taccomp and since we have
> a battleTAC link which adds another 10-20 (operator dependant).
> i can savely say I`m real fast and the others are only 20 points behind me
> :-)))

<GRIN>

Ever seen an Order of CuChullain physical adept with bioware, taccomp
and 2,5 point in enhanced senses? :P

> MUNCHKIN ALARM OVER ALL IS SAFE AGAIN
>
> please keep your replay to field clear it makes live easier for us

I did... (Well, now I did for sure...)


Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
Cyclist have it between their legs.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 21:25:43 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Bows and crossbows
In-Reply-To: <199707200926.LAA07199@*****.xs4all.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hmmm...

> > So, I came up with this simple solution: make the readying of a bow
> > a free action (though I think this would require easy acces to
> > arrows, like stuck in the ground before you, or in a quiver on your
> > hip). This way, you get 3 shots from a bow each 2 combat phases,
> > whereas you get 2 shots from a crossbow each 2 combat rounds.
>
> Erm... What exactly do you mean by "readying" a bow? Putting an arrow on
> the bow? Drawing the string back so you can shoot the weapon? That'd mean

I think it would be just the nocking of the bow... Now, drawing it is
done when you shoot - draw and loose...

> you can shoot the bow once per Combat Phase: you have to spend a Free
> Action to "ready" it, and then a Simple Action to shoot, if I read you

Free action to ready it, simple to shoot, simple to ready (next
phase)
simple to shoot, free to ready, simple to shoot. (next phase)


> correctly. *waits for Dvixen to point out the proper archery terms :) *

> I have a feeling I'm not quite on the same wavelength as you are, though,
> since it looks to me like you still have the same ROF as a crossbow.

See above...

> > I also hope this is not one of the "once a week" topics on this
> > list... (It was not in the FAQ, anyway)...
>
> Not exactly, it may have been brought up before (there's a big chance of
> that) but definitely not on any regular basis, unlike several other
> topics.


> > Oh, yeah, the newbie intro (I hate that part):
>
> Welcome to the list :)

Thanks... :>

> > My main complaint is that I have only one A category... This creation
> > system is Dumb.
>
> Use the optional "add to 10" system from the Companion, then. That way you
> can get two A priorities plus three E's :)

a) I have no Companion :(
b) I don't need no steenkin A's! :P I was just kidding...


Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
Nothing succeeds like a parrot.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 15:27:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Totems
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:11 PM 7/20/97 +0100, Spike wrote these timeless words:
>|
>|>Ok, that's all I can think of now... Granted, it doesn;t all make perfect
>|>sense, and as I mentioned before, smacks of AD&D or other fantasy concpts
>|>(If any of you have read some of the recent Raymond Feist novels, I'm
>|>actually basing the idea on the concept of how their gods work. Don;t ask
>|>me to explain, though. I can;t. :] )
>|
>|Actually, it sounds moslty like the Discworld model to me.
>|
>That's what I was thinking too....
>BULL! If you haven't already, READ SMALL GODS!
>You won't regret it.... :)
>
YOu know, Ever since I joined this list you guys have talked about the
Discworld books... But for the life of me I can't find them anywhere! The
only Discworld anything I'd seen or heard of before joining the list was
the video game...

Hmmm... Maybe time to order some books?

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 21:25:43 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkin man :P
In-Reply-To: <199707200926.LAA07195@*****.xs4all.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hmmm...

<an example of munchkinism snipped>

> There are several problems with the character you're talking about. First
> and foremost, he/she CANNOT be made as a starting character, unless for
> some reason your GM allows you to use Force Points for initiations (which
> I definitely don't).

Yes, I know... However, you could then give him a +2D6 initiative
physad ability... Or just don't give him bioware...

> Second, and this uses a ruling by Tom Dowd that you probably aren't aware
> of and which some people might heavily dispute (MC23, keep quiet, OK? :)
> namely that only the highest initiative boost applies. That means your
> character would have only +3D6, not +11D6.

Well, I don't know about this one... But since DLoH said so... (Exar
Kun anyone?)

Mike (Leszek Karlik): http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike/index.htm
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1
GH/L/O d-(--) s+:- a19 c+++ U?>+ P L>++ E? W++>+++ N++(+++) o+@ K? w(---) O@
M- V? PS+(+++) PE Y PGP- !t--- 5+(-) X>+ R++>+++$ tv- b++++ DI? D+ G-- e h--*!
!r-- y-*
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 07:57:17 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Orks & goblins
In-Reply-To: <33D136FD.23CC@**.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Mat, your mailer's overriding the reply-to the list again...

> <gripe>
> That's kind of funny. Vampires, Wendigos (hi Bull) and Banshees are

Ohhhhh... you're mean. :)

> But saying that they're another species instead of homo sapiens is a
> little like calling AIDS victims homo HIVus... (and yes, I understand
> the deep social commentary being made.)

Hmmm... I don't think so. HIV/AIDS just screws your life up and
generally makes you die early, to put it at its bluntest. (Actually,
IIRC AIDS just buggers up your immune system so you die from something
normally harmless - AIDS doesn't even kill you itself. Or am I wrong
again?)

HMHVV, on the other hand, changes you into a completely different
LIFEFORM! HMHVV infected people get really funky powers and
corresponding weaknesses - since when are AIDS victims (or VITAS victims
if you want to keep it SRish) able to Essence Drain? :)

VITAS to me is the SR equivalent of AIDS - HMHVV is VERY different.

Lady Jestyr

----------------------------------------------------
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota
monax materiam possit materiari?
----------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
----------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 17:48:30 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Munchkin man :P
In-Reply-To: <199707200931.DAA18456@******> from "Gurth" at Jul 20,
97 11:28:23 am
Content-Type: text

Gurth wrote:
|
| The original Speed Sam was designed about a year before Cybertechnology
| came out; a few months ago I upgraded him. If you want to I'll send you a
| copy privately, since most subscribers to the list will have seen him
| before.

But, the last version you sent to the list had an error, and you
never sent the corrected version :)

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 17:51:07 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In-Reply-To: <199707200927.DAA18425@******> from "Gurth" at Jul 20,
97 11:28:22 am
Content-Type: text

Gurth wrote:
|
| Spike said on 22:06/19 Jul 97...
|
| > |Nice people going to GenCon:
| >
| > ACK!
| >
| > Does <sob>
| > Does this mean, I'll be all alone??? <sob>
| >
| > <SOB>
|
| It looks like only us non-Americans will be left... You won't be alone,
| as a matter of fact it looks like we'll be rid of many of those obnoxious
| Americans for a while ;)

Nope, sorry, I'll be here. And I'm gonna be as obnoxious as hell ;)

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 17:53:38 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Question concerning movement
In-Reply-To: <199707200050.SAA03533@******> from "Mike" at Jul 20,
97 02:51:50 am
Content-Type: text

Mike wrote:
|
| "Characters who have multiple Actions may run only in one of those
| Combat Phases, but it does not matter which."

Yep, that's what it says.

| Does this make sense?
|
| Nope. (Run walk walk, walk run walk, walk walk run... Kinda stupid,
| isn't it?)
|
| So, what do you think about it?

I'm fine with it. If it was run, run, run, then that would be way to much
of a bonus for enhanced character, IMO.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 18:06:28 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Bows and crossbows
In-Reply-To: <199707200013.SAA29732@******> from "Mike" at Jul 20,
97 02:13:38 am
Content-Type: text

Mike wrote:
|
| when reviewing the SR rules concerning archery, I saw that bows were
| severely shortchanged in comparison to crossbows.
| I am talking about the rate of fire, which is the same in both cases
| (simple action to ready and simple action to shoot). This is
| ludicrous. After all, the main advantage of the bow was it's high
| rate of fire...

Um, no. The advantage of a crossbow is that just about anyone can use it.
Bows require a fair ammount of strength and training.

| So, I came up with this simple solution: make the readying of a bow
| a free action (though I think this would require easy acces to
| arrows, like stuck in the ground before you, or in a quiver on your
| hip).

I disagree. "Free actions are relatively simple, nearly automatic
actions that require little or no effort to accomplish." Picking up
an arrow is pretty easy, but nocking(sp?) the thing requires some
concentration (I have a fair ammount of RL experience on this one).

| Maybe make readying a crossbow a complex action,

"A Complex Action requires the most intense concentration of all the
possible action types." IMO, readying a crossbow doesn't fit into
this category. It's the reverse of readying a bow, pull back the
line, load the bolt, and you're ready to go.

| I also hope this is not one of the "once a week" topics on this
| list... (It was not in the FAQ, anyway)...

Naw, this one only comes up about once a year :)

[snip: 19/19/19 Drow Fighter/Mage/Cleric. What's a munchkin?]

| <grin, duck & run>

Gah! ;)

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 18:08:34 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Lotsa Karma
In-Reply-To: <199707182306.RAA15487@******> from "Caric" at Jul 18,
97 03:54:17 pm
Content-Type: text

Caric wrote:
|
| > Fascinating, in five years of playing Shadowrun, none of my players have
| > had characters, even the long term ones, anywhere near this Karma total.
| > Boy am I going to lynched if they find out. :)
|
| Us either...I think I had the highest total ever with somewhere in the
| neighborhood of 200.

It helps when the GM is handing out too much karma :( I just read
the karma rules again and found out I misread something <sigh>.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 22:37:13 +0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@*****.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Orks & goblins
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970721075308.1746A-100000@*******.dialix.com.au>

On 21 Jul 97 at 7:57, Lady Jestyr wrote:

> Hmmm... I don't think so. HIV/AIDS just screws your life up and
> generally makes you die early, to put it at its bluntest. (Actually,
> IIRC AIDS just buggers up your immune system so you die from
> something normally harmless - AIDS doesn't even kill you itself. Or
> am I wrong again?)

No, that's correct. It destroys your immune system, so you generally
die from something else.

> HMHVV, on the other hand, changes you into a completely different
> LIFEFORM! HMHVV infected people get really funky powers and
> corresponding weaknesses - since when are AIDS victims (or VITAS
> victims if you want to keep it SRish) able to Essence Drain? :)
>
> VITAS to me is the SR equivalent of AIDS - HMHVV is VERY different.

That is why the different scientific classifications of the infected
species. They ARE a different species. HMHVV actually alters the
whole DNA, and mutates the whole organism, rather than specific cells
like most virii.

--

===DREKHEAD==================================drekhead@***.net====
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
=================================================================
If at first you DO succeed, try not to look astonished!

-----------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 04:51:35 -0700
Reply-To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: Orks & goblins
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> > HMHVV, on the other hand, changes you into a completely different
> > LIFEFORM! HMHVV infected people get really funky powers and
> > corresponding weaknesses - since when are AIDS victims (or VITAS
> > victims if you want to keep it SRish) able to Essence Drain? :)

> > VITAS to me is the SR equivalent of AIDS - HMHVV is VERY different.

> That is why the different scientific classifications of the infected
> species. They ARE a different species. HMHVV actually alters the
> whole DNA, and mutates the whole organism, rather than specific cells
> like most virii.

Can't agree, mostly because SR disagrees with itself. Vampires,
Wendigos and Banshees are given different taxonomies than Dzoo-noo-quah
and the whatevers Gurth mentioned (man, my memory's short), the latter
two being taxonomied as homo (species), whereas the Vampires et al are
distinctly called "human subspecies" in the flavor text. To resound the
refrain: catching a virus (no matter its effects) doesn't qualify one
into a new species. (Unless you really want to broaden the definition
pass the scientific view. Do mages count as their own species too?)

I don't buy any of it (g), considering the taxonomies to be bungled by
uncertainty and politics. But it makes for great coffee talk...
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 20:41:39 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Dragons at the end of an age
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

---"J. Keith Henry" wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-07-18 01:27:18 EDT, daddyjim@**********.COM
(Loki)
> writes:
>
> M
> e
> r
> c
> u
> r
> i
> a
> l
>
> S
> p
> o
> i
> l
> e
> r
> s
>
> f
> o
> r
>
> t
> h
> e
>
> U
> l
> t
> r
> a
>
> S
> e
> n
> s
> i
> t
> i
> v
> e
>
> >
> > Now, Perianwyr isn't a great dragon so this would seem to imply
that
> > both great and lesser dragons both go into a sleep or stasis
during
> > times of low/no mana.
> >
> Okay, now I admit that it was 7 years ago (6?), but I recall
Perianwyr being
> a Great Western Dragon.

Nope. He's in "Maria Mercurial" and "A Killing Glare" and in both he's
just your run of the mill (run of the mill?) dragon. You couldn't
really picture a Great Dragon chummin' round with Kyle and working as
a wetwork specialist for Aztechnology, could you? :o)

===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/

"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 04:02:35 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Munchkin man
In-Reply-To: <199707201921.VAA28836@****.polbox.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

At 20-Jul-97 wrote Mike (Leszek Karlik):



>Damn. I know I SHOULD have persuaded my GM to get that SR Companion
>through mail order, not matter what the cost. :>
>I wonder when will it be available in here...

The companion is nice but the official rule about the shapeshifter are re=
aly
§$%$(/%$$%&/&/( we ditched them in the first second.

>Yep. I know it too, but this was about speed, not other abilities...

But speed alone is not enough to consider, always take care of the
larger picture.


>Ever seen an Order of CuChullain physical adept with bioware, taccomp
>and 2,5 point in enhanced senses? :P

Yup, he was dead before his turn came.


-- =

Barbie


==========================
==========================

You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.

(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)

==========================
==========================
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 04:37:12 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Munchkin man
In-Reply-To: <970720120709_377369366@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

At 20-Jul-97 wrote J. Keith Henry:

>Uh, Barbie, how in the name of the ghost do you pull off a 30? I've seen the
>17 to 21 on a "speed freak" but beyond that, I don't know. I'm muy
>curiosantes...

Ok, Keith just for your curiosity:
First its in animal form :-)
18 from attributes
3 lightning reflexes
6 reaction enhancer
1 enhanced atriculation
2 from the shapeshifter

In human form the last one doesn`t count so its 28.

To clear things even more we don`t use the silly compainon rules for
shapeshifter.
We have revers engineered the npc stats for them.
Mainly because the compainon was not on the horizon when we needed shapeshifer
rules.
And normaly our shapshifter can`t get implantes but this character is special
she is not born as animal. She became a shapeshifter because the GM used her
for a guinea pig after she had all the implants. From that point on her live
was realy
hard, today she had barly controll over her new powers.
Another special rule is that when you become something with regeneration
or shapealtering powers AFTER you had some implantes they stay within your
body but its not possible to alter some of the implats after that through
operations or so
they can only be damaged but not repaired anymore.
So in the long run it doesn`t count.
I can`t even get rid of my cortexbombs<sigh>
And if someone discovers that I`m a shapshifter I will be in deep deep shit.
Since that special case had happened only once in five years and until today
noone of my group had tried to misuse these rules, it worked for us.

Hope this makes things clearer.
--
Barbie


==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.

(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)

==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 04:13:37 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Bows and crossbows
In-Reply-To: <199707210006.SAA27872@******>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

At 20-Jul-97 wrote David Buehrer:


>| Maybe make readying a crossbow a complex action,

>"A Complex Action requires the most intense concentration of all the
>possible action types." IMO, readying a crossbow doesn't fit into
>this category. It's the reverse of readying a bow, pull back the
>line, load the bolt, and you're ready to go.

I think a complex action is not only defined by the concentration
you need but its also a matter of time which you need to do something.
And readying a crossbow takes longer than a bow, especialy for the
heavier ones. So I thing a complex action is OK.
And after your course of action it would be two simples so no real difference.
A bow would be faster because you pull the string back with the arrow.

--
Barbie


==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.

(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)

==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 01:53:07 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Deosyne <deosyne@*********.NET>
Organization: The War Machine
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Spike wrote:
>
> |<snip my post>
>
> How does Shadowrun 3rd Edition grab you?
> --
>
Like vice grips to the genital region. Now I'll have to learn to convert
1st Ed. to 3rd! Maybe I'll give in this time and just buy the damn 3rd
<grumble>. So what's the deal this time, they merging 2nd ed. sourcebook
with the companion and choice goodies from the supplements, or are they
shooting for an overhaul of the system? (Mike, you still around? :)

Deosyne
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 01:44:13 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Bows and crossbows
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

David wrote:
I disagree. "Free actions are relatively simple, nearly automatic
actions that require little or no effort to accomplish." Picking up
an arrow is pretty easy, but nocking(sp?) the thing requires some
concentration (I have a fair ammount of RL experience on this one).

Wrong! (no offense) but knocking an arrow is natural, I have some
experience in archery (won a couple kid tourneys) I don't know the SR
equivenenlt of the skill level (maybe 4/5) at that level maybe lower It
defiantly should be a free action!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:48:59 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "SHANE J. WINZAR" <s702399@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Mana Storms?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I've been reading source material for adventures based in
Australia and come across the term 'Mana Storm'...what are they, I've
never heard of them before and I've read most of the Fasa books, have
they been made up by someone? anyway what are they and what sort of
damage do they do etc,

Thanx in advance, Tamino

Shane Winzar aka Tamino
s702399@*******.gu.edu.au Student of Information Tech.
'Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most.'
-Ozzi (sp?) Osbourne and lately Cereal Killer, Hackers.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:17:13 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Designs [was: Re: We Don't Need No
Stinkin'Munchies!!!]
In-Reply-To:
<c=US%a=_%pÞSHAW%l=MSBOSTON1-970717225226Z-10134@*********.boston.deshaw.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0

In message <c=US%a=_%pÞSHAW%l=MSBOSTON1-970717225226Z-10134@*********.
boston.deshaw.com>, "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM> writes
>Top Cat ranted, standing upon podium, beating chest:
>> Design the campaign, work with the players to get the characters to
>>mesh,
>>then go from there... formula for a perfect campaign.
>>
>>To which Kohl replys:
>> Okay! First off, I've got to say, TopCat, you bring a whole new meaning
>>to GM fasism!
>> Design the campaign, design out the characters, dictate who goes and
>>knows where and what? Why don't you just play all the PCs and NPCs yourself?
>> The whole point of the game is to allow the players to run a character
>>they LIKE to run, WITHIN REASON. NOT dictate to them what they can and cannot
>>have or do!

I tend towards TopCat's position here. I don't think he hands out
character sheets and says "play this or else": if I were joining his
game I guess I'd describe what I wanted to play, and then he and I would
negotiate how to achieve it.

Bob seems to favour small guns: fine, we'll discuss that. Maybe in my
last game SMGs were fairly common: but playing with TopCat they're heavy
artillery and all my PC needs is a pistol or a Defiance T-250.

I don't see that as fascism, I see it as a GM helping his players to
enjoy the campaign better.

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:12:09 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: question
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970718113442.006d67c4@****.lis.ab.ca>

HI!
Just one simple, not too important question to all those who play
shadowrun regularly...
What If a player is missing at one session? Do you let another one
play his character? Or do you think of a way to let the character
disappear for some time?

If somebody else plays the character, aren't ther problems with the
stats since the character sheet in question should be missing as
well?

Ok, I'ts really not too important, but anyway, Id like to know how
others play...

ss
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:17:39 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <232DA9B56D3@********.uibk.ac.at>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> If somebody else plays the character, aren't ther problems with the
> stats since the character sheet in question should be missing as
> well?

We generally either leave them out if they weren't essential to the
plotline or we're in a bad mood. :) If we need their character, someone
else generally plays the character. E.g. my boyfriend sometimes has to
work weekends; thus I take his character sheet to the game session and
play two deckers instead of one :)

Lady Jestyr

-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:19:50 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <232DA9B56D3@********.uibk.ac.at>

Hi!
Did you ever notice that in shadowrun unarmed combat the fight is
over after 5 seconds... the one who scores the first hit wins the
fight since with the higher target number due to the injury, the
other one stands no chance... so what does the smart player? through
anything he has... all the pools, combat and karma, into the first
attack... then he either has won or lost... its all over after the
first combat turn. Really makes me sick...
In order to develope a cool fistfight that lasts for a few minutes, I
have to break the rules several times.
Does anyone out there know a solution/does anyone share the same
experiences? If not, why not?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:22:40 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970721181619.14208A-100000@*******.dialix.com.au>

> We generally either leave them out if they weren't essential to the
> plotline or we're in a bad mood.
>
> Lady Jestyr

You leave them out even if the character didn't have time to leave?
So he just disappears sometimes and reappears later? Well, thats the
easiest sulution, but the least satisfying one.

ss
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 03:26:47 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: question
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Personaly I wouldn't let anybody else play my character and I would not
enjoy playing sombody elses, this is just my opinion but I think that
it's kinda cheap and that it messes up characters to let multiple people
play them (playing styles differ), We tryed it once, not exactly what
your saying but we made a ":group character" that we took turns playing,
It realy didn't work out nor did it enhance out role playing enjoyment,
O~well another good Idea down the drain.
I think the GM or better yet the players, should find a way to have him
not here at the time, It just makes sense to me.

Here's a question I want to through out, Do you PCs play multiple
characters? or just one? I was in a small group once and each person
played at leas 2 sometimes up to 6 players, I think It got confusing
real quick. What do you guys think and or do?

Thankx
Caun :}
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:27:42 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <23307B207E1@********.uibk.ac.at>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> > We generally either leave them out if they weren't essential to the
> > plotline or we're in a bad mood.
>
> You leave them out even if the character didn't have time to leave?
> So he just disappears sometimes and reappears later? Well, thats the
> easiest sulution, but the least satisfying one.

If the character in question is in the middle of a scene where there's
no way his/her absence can be logically explained, then I'd say that's
essential to the plotline. :)

EG. if we're in the middle of a blazing gunfight, he stays - but
generally gets ignored by the GM unless we have the character sheet
there. If we're doing a surveillance he goes - just nipped out to meet a
contact, or whatever...


Lady Jestyr

-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 03:37:58 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: question
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> You leave them out even if the character didn't have time to leave?
> So he just disappears sometimes and reappears later? Well, thats the
> easiest sulution, but the least satisfying one.
>
In our sessions there is usually a small time in game time between
playing, just write a story of why he's not there ie. captured by
sombody, family crisis,whatever. If you know somone is going to be gone
in advance GM could design a campain/senerio about him/her being
captuerd for ransom and you have to get him back or some such It's
actualy quite fun resquing you chummers instead of some wage slave
wackout!You should try it somtime! you'll enjoy it!

Caun :}
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 04:36:23 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: question
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:12 AM 7/21/97 +0100, Simon T. Sailer wrote these timeless words:
>HI!
>Just one simple, not too important question to all those who play
>shadowrun regularly...
>What If a player is missing at one session? Do you let another one
>play his character? Or do you think of a way to let the character
>disappear for some time?
>
Well, with my group, it seems to be really hard to get everyone together
everytime, so quite often we have someone missing between games.

This isn;t too big a problem, as usually we manage to wap up a night's game
session in a spot where everyone has seperated, or could seperate. So if
someone is missing for the next adventure, the could be sick, getting a
"tune up" (if they're a chrome job), or "communing with the spirits"
(I
have a Shaman and a Physical Shaman, so...:)), or whetever.

SOmetimes, we end thigs in a spot that's impossible to get in and out of.
Currently, my players are crawling around inside an Ant Hive. If something
happens and I have an Extra Player, or am missing one, well... The laws of
physics, and the previous story, can be altered...:]

>If somebody else plays the character, aren't ther problems with the
>stats since the character sheet in question should be missing as
>well?
>
Well... A lot of GM's keep a copy of their players Character Sheets, or
even hold on to the sheet so that theirs no cheating between games. In
this case, another player could play the char (though usually I won't allow
this), or the missing character can be an NPC for the night, run by the GM...

>Ok, I'ts really not too important, but anyway, Id like to know how
>others play...
>
> ss

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:41:30 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <33D1DC6F.34F204CB@*********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> In our sessions there is usually a small time in game time between
> playing, just write a story of why he's not there ie. captured by
> sombody, family crisis,whatever. If you know somone is going to be gone

Often our sessions break off in the middle of adventures - it's a bit
hard to explain why Fred suddenly just "vanished" before your eyes...

> in advance GM could design a campain/senerio about him/her being
> captuerd for ransom and you have to get him back or some such It's
> actualy quite fun resquing you chummers instead of some wage slave
> wackout!You should try it somtime! you'll enjoy it!

Tried it. Never again... it messes with your head when your character's
best friend doesn't recognise any of his buddies and thinks they're
trying to hurt him. Brainwashing is bad.

Lady Jestyr

-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 04:44:18 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:19 AM 7/21/97 +0100, Simon T. Sailer wrote these timeless words:
>Hi!
>Did you ever notice that in shadowrun unarmed combat the fight is
>over after 5 seconds... the one who scores the first hit wins the
>fight since with the higher target number due to the injury, the
>other one stands no chance... so what does the smart player? through
>anything he has... all the pools, combat and karma, into the first
>attack... then he either has won or lost... its all over after the
>first combat turn. Really makes me sick...
>In order to develope a cool fistfight that lasts for a few minutes, I
>have to break the rules several times.
>Does anyone out there know a solution/does anyone share the same
>experiences? If not, why not?
>
Roleplay out combat, making the players tell exactly what they're doing,
and determine the outcome that way... That's probably the only way to do
it without completely coming up with a new set of combat rules...

Also, I have strentched out the "Combat Round" more than the 3-5 seconds
that are supposed to elapse. tehre are simply too many things that happen
in the normal turn, and I still imagine my fight scenes as cinimatic in
nature. Lots of bullets flying that never hit anyone, and hand to hand
combat that involves a lot of attacks and parries before anyone hits. That
sort of thing... So I stretch each round out to anywhere from 10 seconds
to 30 seconds, dependiong on how much happens in a single turn.

Also, I don;t keep track of ammo, and don;t make my players do that either,
except in extreme situations... Thus going for the John Woo Automatic
Reloads in less than a second...;]

Bull-who-plays-fast-and-loose-with-rules-quite-often-for-the-sake-of-trhe-story
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 04:44:21 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Playing Multiple Charactrs (was Re: question)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 03:26 AM 7/20/97 -0600, Caun Haskins wrote these timeless words:

>Here's a question I want to through out, Do you PCs play multiple
>characters? or just one? I was in a small group once and each person
>played at leas 2 sometimes up to 6 players, I think It got confusing
>real quick. What do you guys think and or do?
>
Well... I've never done it with Shadowrun, though I would let (if we were
ever short of players) my guys play up to 2 characters, max... Of course,
I _LIKE_ a small group (my ideal group is 4, one from each major group).

Of course, I never really have a shortage of players. I have too many,
ocaasionally... Of course, if we're talking GOOD players... that's
another subject. I have maybe 2 or 3...;]

We did do this in D&D WAAAAYYYYY back when... When only me, and my little
brother, and my one cousin was playing. I think I usually played 2
characters,,,;]

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 03:56:16 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: question
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Brainwashing is bad.
>
Copy that! (a bit OT though) i realy wasn't talking about that.
Bull's idea of NPC ing them works ok as well, still think getting rid
of them for this session is bes though.
brains are terible things to mess with I rely dislike that false memory
spell in the hands of Johnson, that sucks!

Caun :}

P.S. hey Bull when do you sleep? I don't think you ever stop posting,
just wondering.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:01:18 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Munchkin man
In-Reply-To: <yam7140.2885.136475920@****.amigaworld.com>
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Barbie said on 17:55/20 Jul 97...

> >I've been reading through the Paranoid Animals of NA, and saw the
> >Speed Samurai archetype...
>
> Speed Samurai in the PnAoNA ??
> How did you do that ??

ParaNOID, not ParaNORMAL. Available from my WWW page, if you have the time
and inclination to download about 2 MB. Everybody seems to think the pics
on the back are a joke about CCGs, but they're not...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:56:05 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In-Reply-To: <970720091715_-1157897529@*******.mail.aol.com> from "J. Keith
Henry" at Jul 20, 97 09:17:15 am
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|Why no Spike, it mean's you'll be stuck with me...
|-Keith


AAAAAARGH!!!

:)

Hey Gurth! Where IS EuroGencon?????
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:08:44 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [Admin] HTML Posting
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970720114458.007ae240@***.iquest.net> from
"Jaymz" at
Jul 20, 97 11:44:58 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|Well, if your .mailcap is setup correctly AND you are using an x server,
|you already can read rtf files with elm, spawning an RTF viewer, instead of
|more or less.

Oh, it spawns RTF viewers. That's how come I can read mail, but I doubt
anyone will EVER make it SEND RTF.... That's what I meant....

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:10:45 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Munchkin man
In-Reply-To: <199707201921.VAA28836@****.polbox.pl> from "Mike" at Jul
20,
97 09:25:43 pm
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|> Speed Samurai in the PnAoNA ??
|> How did you do that ??
|
|OK, so maybe it was in some other Plastic Warriors... I've read
|through all of them in one night, so I could have made a mistake...

I should hope so. PNAoNA is genuine FASA, not plastic warriors....
Or did you mean PARANOID animals of north america?????

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:13:32 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Totems
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970720151701.368f7be6@*****.com> from "Bull" at
Jul 20,
97 03:27:01 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|YOu know, Ever since I joined this list you guys have talked about the
|Discworld books... But for the life of me I can't find them anywhere! The
|only Discworld anything I'd seen or heard of before joining the list was
|the video game...
|
|Hmmm... Maybe time to order some books?

One word.... Yes!

If you want to get them in the correct order, it's:
The Colour of Magic, The Light Fantastic, Equal Rites, Mort, Wyrd Sisters
(now a Channel 4 cartoon ;) ), errrr.... HELP.... There're so many I've
forgotten the order......

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:22:32 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
In-Reply-To: <33C86D43.77F394BC@*********.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Deosyne said on 1:53/13 Jul 97...

Has anyone told you your system clock is a week behind?

> Like vice grips to the genital region. Now I'll have to learn to convert
> 1st Ed. to 3rd! Maybe I'll give in this time and just buy the damn 3rd
> <grumble>. So what's the deal this time, they merging 2nd ed. sourcebook
> with the companion and choice goodies from the supplements, or are they
> shooting for an overhaul of the system? (Mike, you still around? :)

FASAMike no longer subscribes because he's apparently too busy with other
things (since they're most likely Shadowrun-related, I guess he can be
forgiven :) but it looks like SR3 will do to SR2 what SR2 did to SR1 --
attempt to streamline the system, and add in major rules changes like VR
2.0 and RBB2 (which will be out this autumn).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:22:33 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Munchkin man :P
In-Reply-To: <199707201921.VAA28671@****.polbox.pl>
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Mike (Leszek Karlik) said on 21:25/20 Jul 97...

> Yes, I know... However, you could then give him a +2D6 initiative
> physad ability... Or just don't give him bioware...

I'll probably, when I have nothing better to do, try to design as fast as
possible a character who _doesn't_ use cyberware, and see how that
compares to the speed sam.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:22:33 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Viral diseases
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970721075308.1746A-100000@*******.dialix.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Lady Jestyr said on 7:57/21 Jul 97...

> Hmmm... I don't think so. HIV/AIDS just screws your life up and
> generally makes you die early, to put it at its bluntest. (Actually,
> IIRC AIDS just buggers up your immune system so you die from something
> normally harmless - AIDS doesn't even kill you itself. Or am I wrong
> again?)

HIV stands for Human Immuno(sp?)-deficiency Virus, and though I have no
real experience with it (and don't want to either :) from everything I've
seen and read about it, AIDS stops your immune system from working; AIDS
itself doesn't do anything to you except destroy your defenses. In the
end AIDS patients die from diseases everyone else survives easily, or
which they don't even get at all.

I guess you could compare it to being in a locked house with people
outside wanting to get you. They can't get in, but if they get a bulldozer
they can demolish the wall and get at you.

> HMHVV, on the other hand, changes you into a completely different
> LIFEFORM! HMHVV infected people get really funky powers and
> corresponding weaknesses - since when are AIDS victims (or VITAS victims
> if you want to keep it SRish) able to Essence Drain? :)

Maybe that would be the solution :)

Now we're talking about it, what woul VITAS do anyway? SRII gives a
VITAS-3 a damage of 6D and says sufferers get chills, fever, and vomiting
until damage gets reduced to Light, but that's it. Doesn't sound like a
disease that wiped out millions of people to me...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:22:33 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <232DA9B56D3@********.uibk.ac.at>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Simon T. Sailer said on 10:12/21 Jul 97...

> What If a player is missing at one session? Do you let another one
> play his character? Or do you think of a way to let the character
> disappear for some time?

My usual way of handling this is turning the character into a semi-NPC;
that is, the GM (usually me) plays the character but (s)he stays in the
background. When the other players make plans, I tend to assume the absent
player agrees with them, and therefore so does the character, unless it's
something I know the char would really be opposed to.

> If somebody else plays the character, aren't ther problems with the
> stats since the character sheet in question should be missing as
> well?

Not when I GM, because I take the sheets with me at the end of each game
session.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:22:33 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Munchkin man :P
In-Reply-To: <199707202348.RAA27672@******>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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David Buehrer said on 17:48/20 Jul 97...

> But, the last version you sent to the list had an error, and you
> never sent the corrected version :)

Yes, I did... After the mistake (which happened because I confused the
two Essence costs given on the page with the Reaction Enhancer in
Cybertechnology) I corrected it and IIRC posted the latest version.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 04:30:38 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <232DA9B56D3@********.uibk.ac.at>
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At 10:12 7/21/97 +0100, you wrote:
>HI!
>Just one simple, not too important question to all those who play
>shadowrun regularly...
>What If a player is missing at one session? Do you let another one
>play his character? Or do you think of a way to let the character
>disappear for some time?

In my last campaign this would have been a bigger problem, since the PC's
had decided to be friends outside of work.
In the new campaign I should be starting this week, I've done a bit more of
the deciding for the players, and they will not be close friends outside of
working. This will make it easier for one character to pull out of a job
early, or not show up at all.

>If somebody else plays the character, aren't ther problems with the
>stats since the character sheet in question should be missing as
>well?

I ussually keep the character sheets all at my place, but I've ran games
without them before <g>

-Aj
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
GC3.1 GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:34:23 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
In-Reply-To: <33C86D43.77F394BC@*********.net> from "Deosyne" at Jul 13,
97 01:53:07 am
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|
|Spike wrote:
|>
|> |<snip my post>
|>
|> How does Shadowrun 3rd Edition grab you?
|> --
|>
|Like vice grips to the genital region. Now I'll have to learn to convert
|1st Ed. to 3rd! Maybe I'll give in this time and just buy the damn 3rd
|<grumble>.

Don't worry. They only just started work on it. Someone asked for things we
wanted fixing, clarifying and changing....

It broke list-bulk records...

(one of the things suggested by quite a few people was to bring back
variable staging.....)

So what's the deal this time, they merging 2nd ed. sourcebook
|with the companion and choice goodies from the supplements, or are they
|shooting for an overhaul of the system? (Mike, you still around? :)

Basically, I think it's going to be SHRII + VRII + RBB2 + clarifications and
rules tidying.....

(Although it'll only have the RULES from VRII and RBB2, none of the
equipstuff, and probably in brief).

It's not scheduled for a year or two..... Someone said 1998, so 1999 it is
then....

:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:36:54 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Mana Storms?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970721164323.1306C@*****.student.gu.edu.au> from
"SHANE J. WINZAR" at Jul 21, 97 04:48:59 pm
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|
| I've been reading source material for adventures based in
|Australia and come across the term 'Mana Storm'...what are they, I've
|never heard of them before and I've read most of the Fasa books, have
|they been made up by someone? anyway what are they and what sort of
|damage do they do etc,

Have you read "Choose your enemies carefully"?
Verner sees a few Mana storms in Aussieland when he's after the really
powerfull focus in Airs(sp?) Rock.....

We'll probably have to wait for an Aussie sourcebook before they get
explained though.....

I Want to know how they work and what they do as well....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
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Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:54:58 -0700
Reply-To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
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> Now we're talking about it, what woul VITAS do anyway? SRII gives a
> VITAS-3 a damage of 6D and says sufferers get chills, fever, and vomiting
> until damage gets reduced to Light, but that's it. Doesn't sound like a
> disease that wiped out millions of people to me...

The virus, um, Reads The Script (for all the Trekkers out there...)

But this is VITAS-*3* we're talking about -- it was the original VITAS
that did the nasty salsa over so many. It's damage code has been lost
to antiquity -- probably got smurfed during the 2029 Crash, or sumfin'.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:42:39 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970721184002.14208C-100000@*******.dialix.com.au>
from "Lady Jestyr" at Jul 21, 97 06:41:30 pm
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|
|> In our sessions there is usually a small time in game time between
|> playing, just write a story of why he's not there ie. captured by
|> sombody, family crisis,whatever. If you know somone is going to be gone
|
|Often our sessions break off in the middle of adventures - it's a bit
|hard to explain why Fred suddenly just "vanished" before your eyes...

In shadowrun, that always was a toughie.... I'd have him knocked unconcious
almost straight away (stun only), and miraculously recover when he turns
up.... Poetic licence, don't ya know...

In rifts, it's somewhat easier. You just have one of the baddies use a
one-use weapon that creates a small dimentional pocket that sucks him
in..... He then pops out when convenient....

:)

|Tried it. Never again... it messes with your head when your character's
|best friend doesn't recognise any of his buddies and thinks they're
|trying to hurt him. Brainwashing is bad.

I thought that'd be the whole point.....
:)

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:44:28 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <33D1E0B6.204B63F5@*********.com> from "Caun Haskins" at Jul
20,
97 03:56:16 am
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|P.S. hey Bull when do you sleep? I don't think you ever stop posting,
|just wondering.
|

I thought you knew!
Bull is an AI. He never sleeps....
:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:48:58 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
In-Reply-To: <199707211021.MAA14734@*****.xs4all.nl> from "Gurth" at Jul
21,
97 12:22:33 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|Now we're talking about it, what woul VITAS do anyway? SRII gives a
|VITAS-3 a damage of 6D and says sufferers get chills, fever, and vomiting
|until damage gets reduced to Light, but that's it. Doesn't sound like a
|disease that wiped out millions of people to me...

I think it's pretty obvious. Look at the acronym...

V... Virally
I... Induced
T... Toxic
A... Allergy
S... Syndrome

It makes you severely allergic to EVERYTHING!
(Probably even air....)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 08:31:09 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Angel Ramos y David Fayes <hansa@****.NET>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <232DA9B56D3@********.uibk.ac.at>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:12 AM 21/07/1997 +0100, you wrote:
>HI!
>Just one simple, not too important question to all those who play
>shadowrun regularly...
>What If a player is missing at one session? Do you let another one
>play his character? Or do you think of a way to let the character
>disappear for some time?
>
In or gaming group we don't play the missing person's PC. If there is no
way we can manage this PC to separate from the group we just freeze it.

>If somebody else plays the character, aren't ther problems with the
>stats since the character sheet in question should be missing as
>well?
Our GM keeps copies of our PC (in case someone is cheating) in case someone
didn't bring his PC sheet. Just like happened yesterday with the Otaku PC.

>Ok, I'ts really not too important, but anyway, Id like to know how
>others play...
This is our way.

Hope this help a little

Elven Mage
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 08:17:37 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Angel Ramos y David Fayes <hansa@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Stranger Souls is #1
In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19970719070244.0070660c@******.uoregon.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:02 AM 19/07/1997 -0700, you wrote:
>Just thought I'd mention that Stranger Souls made the number one slot on the
>LOCUS magazine bestseller list for June (in the Game-related fiction
>category). This was it's first month in stores so I'm pretty friggin stoked.
>My personal thanks to those of you on the list who've bought a copy. Also I
>am greatly appreciative to those who've sent me email responses.
>

Great!!

I did my request to my bookstore here in Venezuela. Awaiting eagerly!!!!!!

Saludos
Elven Mage
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:48:15 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bruce <gyro@********.CO.ZA>
Subject: Re: WoTC on TV (was: Re: WOTC/FASA)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>MtG has been building in popularity and economic (if such a thing is
>possible) power for some time now. The only thing about that game that I had
>to respond to most of the players here at one time was ....
>
>"Gee, now that I know whom the real powergamers/munchkins are."
>
>I am not saying that everything about MtG is bad, but it did help a lot of
>people look at things differently.
>-Keith
>
OK as an earnest role player and a fanatical card gamer I would like to know
where the Magic=Munchkin link even begins. Please.

>>>>>>BRUCE
"Dont hit me, I just drive the car!"
-Sharkboy, our Rigger to peeved razorgal<<<<<<<
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:04:26 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Totems -Reply

>But, to query up an ED term. What about the
>Passions and the Loa? Those two sets of
>beings are most notably -not- mental
>constructs in the normal sense as Spells,
>Watchers and perhaps Ally beings.

Maybe, maybe not, but I dare you to PROVE it.

Double-Domed Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:52:41 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: [OT] EuroGenCon

Spike Writes
>
> Hey Gurth! Where IS EuroGencon?????

Awaiting.

Well the answer is Loughborough University, 28th to 31st August. (so
you are a LOT closer than Gurth :) ).
More data available or try ringing TSR.

Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:50:32 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: [OT] EuroGenCon

Gurth writes

> BTW, since this started as a GenCon thing, who will be going to the
> European version?
>
I will, but i think you at least knew that.

Note i am still awaiting the pack about whats going on there though
last i heard off TSR its due about now.

I have some plans forming, more when i have time.

Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:01:46 MEZ-1MESZ
Reply-To: sandman@****.uni-oldenburg.de
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: HAUPT ULRICH FB08 <sandman@****.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Organization: University Of Oldenburg Comp.Center
Subject: Re: question

> What If a player is missing at one session? Do you let another one
> play his character? Or do you think of a way to let the character
> disappear for some time?

As you can imagine the allsaying answer:
It depends on the adventure ! But in my group the character usually
will be played by the game master. In some cases the other players
play the one - especially in combat situations.
Most of the time such characters are judt good enough to hold the
torch, drive the car or watch for Lone Star.

I remember only 4 times when a character was kicked off the
adventure! 2 of those were meetings were ane adventure ended and
another started (with a new game master).

I hope I could help you!

Sandman
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:46:26 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In-Reply-To: <12503.199707210956@*****.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Spike said on 10:56/21 Jul 97...

> Hey Gurth! Where IS EuroGencon?????

Loughborough (sp?) University. When I looked it up on the map, it appears
to be a bit below Nottingham. I'll definitely be there for four days
(28-31 August), but I was wondering who else from this list is planning to
go.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:46:26 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Discworld novels (was Re: Totems)
In-Reply-To: <12595.199707211013@*****.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
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Spike said on 11:13/21 Jul 97...

> |Hmmm... Maybe time to order some [Discworld] books?
>
> One word.... Yes!

Another word: Definitely!

> If you want to get them in the correct order, it's:
> The Colour of Magic, The Light Fantastic, Equal Rites, Mort, Wyrd Sisters
> (now a Channel 4 cartoon ;) ), errrr.... HELP.... There're so many I've
> forgotten the order......

Afetr Wyrd Sisters, there's Pyramids, Guards! Guards!, Eric, Moving
Pictures, Reaper Man, Witches Abroad, Small Gods, Lords And Ladies, Men At
Arms, Soul Music, Interesting Times, Maskerade, and one or two others I
don't own yet.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
All these worthless nights, all these wasted days
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:48:36 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In-Reply-To: <199707211445.QAA18204@*****.xs4all.nl> from "Gurth" at Jul
21,
97 04:46:26 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|
|Spike said on 10:56/21 Jul 97...
|
|> Hey Gurth! Where IS EuroGencon?????
|
|Loughborough (sp?) University. When I looked it up on the map, it appears
|to be a bit below Nottingham. I'll definitely be there for four days
|(28-31 August), but I was wondering who else from this list is planning to
|go.

I might, but I doubt I can afford it....

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:50:04 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Discworld novels (was Re: Totems)
In-Reply-To: <199707211445.QAA18223@*****.xs4all.nl> from "Gurth" at Jul
21,
97 04:46:26 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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|Arms, Soul Music, Interesting Times, Maskerade, and one or two others I
|don't own yet.

Hogfather and Feet of clay.....
(I've not even read Masquerade yet.... I'm falling behind....)

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 08:51:57 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: M:TG = Munchkin? (Was Re: WoTC on TV)
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970721094815.008459dc@********.co.za>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 11:48 7/21/97 +0200, you wrote:
>>MtG has been building in popularity and economic (if such a thing is
>>possible) power for some time now. The only thing about that game that I
had
>>to respond to most of the players here at one time was ....
>>
>>"Gee, now that I know whom the real powergamers/munchkins are."

>OK as an earnest role player and a fanatical card gamer I would like to know
>where the Magic=Munchkin link even begins. Please.

I think alot of it stems from card gamers who have never played RPG's, and
then try to start RPG's. A CCG's goal (Most of them.) is to kill the
opponent(s) as fast as possible, with any means nessesary. (Red fireball
decks, anyone?). A RPG has so much more depth than most card games, and
most card gamers have a bitch of a time adjusting. I know some people who
play both and do well at each of them, but I know alot of people who play
M:TG and can't grasp Shadowrun..
Then again, I know a few people who play AD&D and can't grasp Shadowrun. <g>

-Adam
Who is glad the gaming store owner is cutting back on CCG's and stocking
more SR.

http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
GC3.1 GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 08:52:39 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
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hernandez wrote:
>
> <SNIP>
> > Actually, one of my more striking early memories of Phoenix Arizona was
> of a
> > guy on a motorcycle (probably a Harley, who knows) riding along the road
> -in-
> > the city limits, he had a Shotgun (BIG THING), a Katana (No, I'm not
> kidding)
> > and what could have been a "heavy pistol". It didn't seem to stop
him,
> and
> > the police officer was driving two cars behind him. Talk about a change
> in
> > society.


> Arizona is an "open" carry state. So long as the weapon is in plain view,
> no license is needed to carry it.

...and even more astounding is that firearms do not need to be
registered here. IN fact all that has to be visible of the gun is a
portion, or a portion of the holster (a throw back to WWII days when
soldiers were coming home with the 'ol flop over style holsters that
completely cover the gun.)

Caric-the-just-a-little-more-useless-info-shaman
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:04:19 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
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Spike wrote:

> Basically, I think it's going to be SHRII + VRII + RBB2 + clarifications and
> rules tidying.....
>
> (Although it'll only have the RULES from VRII and RBB2, none of the
> equipstuff, and probably in brief).
>
> It's not scheduled for a year or two..... Someone said 1998, so 1999 it is
> then....

From what Steve said it appears that they are shooting for Gencon next
year...which would be about August 10th or so I would imagine. That of
course is a preliminary release time, so expect changes.


Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:50:53 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Munchkin man :P
In-Reply-To: <199707211026.EAA03752@******> from "Gurth" at Jul 21,
97 12:22:33 pm
Content-Type: text

Gurth wrote:
|
| David Buehrer said on 17:48/20 Jul 97...
|
| > But, the last version you sent to the list had an error, and you
| > never sent the corrected version :)
|
| Yes, I did... After the mistake (which happened because I confused the
| two Essence costs given on the page with the Reaction Enhancer in
| Cybertechnology) I corrected it and IIRC posted the latest version.

Whoops. I musta gotten confused (or maybe received the posts out of
order). Well then, I'll just have to throw version 2.1 at my players
the next time I run <EGMG>.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:03:45 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
In-Reply-To: <199707211023.EAA03453@******> from "Gurth" at Jul 21,
97 12:22:33 pm
Content-Type: text

Gurth wrote:
|
| Now we're talking about it, what woul VITAS do anyway? SRII gives a
| VITAS-3 a damage of 6D and says sufferers get chills, fever, and vomiting
| until damage gets reduced to Light, but that's it. Doesn't sound like a
| disease that wiped out millions of people to me...

Well, if you take a Deadly and don't receive treatment (first aid),
or don't make a Body(10) test (not likely for your average person),
you'll be dead in a number of minutes equal to your bodyx10. VITAS
killed what, 20% of the population all at once? How many people were
actually affected for it to reach those kind of numbers? Overload
the medical system that much and everybody on the fringe, or who came
in after the medicine ran out... The nasty thing with plagues isn't
that their deadly on an individual basis, but that so many people get
it at once that the medical system can't keep up.

Also, remember the rules on Deadly Wounds and Permanent Damage.
Right from the outset VITAS has a fair chance of doing permanent
damage to its host (again, to the average person). That puts an even
bigger load on the system. And not just the medical system,
everything is going to be affected by that many people being
"scarred" for life (until clonal replacement caim along, and even
then it couldn't do anything for the people that lost attribute
points).

VITAS seriously fucked with the world.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:07:20 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <199707210820.CAA22171@******> from "Simon T. Sailer" at Jul
21,
97 10:19:50 am
Content-Type: text

Simon T. Sailer wrote:
|
| Hi!
| Did you ever notice that in shadowrun unarmed combat the fight is
| over after 5 seconds... the one who scores the first hit wins the
| fight since with the higher target number due to the injury, the
| other one stands no chance... so what does the smart player? through
| anything he has... all the pools, combat and karma, into the first
| attack... then he either has won or lost... its all over after the
| first combat turn. Really makes me sick...

Have you ever been in a real fight (one where either or both sides
now how to fight)? It is over that quickly.

| In order to develope a cool fistfight that lasts for a few minutes, I
| have to break the rules several times.
| Does anyone out there know a solution/does anyone share the same
| experiences? If not, why not?

If you want to make it more cinamatic here's a couple things you can
do. Allow the target of an attack to use as much of his combat pool
as he wants to defend. Award ties to the target. If the target gets
more successes, he doesn't hit the attacker, it just results in the
attack being a failure.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:58:57 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: Mana Storms?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Spike wrote:
>
> |
> | I've been reading source material for adventures based in
> |Australia and come across the term 'Mana Storm'...what are they, I've
> |never heard of them before and I've read most of the Fasa books, have
> |they been made up by someone? anyway what are they and what sort of
> |damage do they do etc,
>
> Have you read "Choose your enemies carefully"?
> Verner sees a few Mana storms in Aussieland when he's after the really
> powerfull focus in Airs(sp?) Rock.....
>
> We'll probably have to wait for an Aussie sourcebook before they get
> explained though.....
>
> I Want to know how they work and what they do as well....

IIRC they exist in Tir na Nog as well. I think that sourcebook explains
them a bit, but I don't have it here with me. Anyone else have info on
this?

Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:12:15 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <199707210813.CAA21960@******> from "Simon T. Sailer" at Jul
21,
97 10:12:09 am
Content-Type: text

Simon T. Sailer wrote:
|
| HI!
| Just one simple, not too important question to all those who play
| shadowrun regularly...
| What If a player is missing at one session? Do you let another one
| play his character? Or do you think of a way to let the character
| disappear for some time?

If the character isn't required for the adventure to continue (has
special knowledge or skills) then I do the following. In my game
there are a couple of forces that can magically summon the PCs.
Depending on which PC it is the effects vary. The PC is either
surounded by bands of blue light as they fade away, or else everyone
suddenly realizes that the PC is no longer there and hasn't been for
at least 5-10 minutes and they can't remember when he left. The PCs
return the same way with no memory of their experiences when
summoned. Sometimes they come back wounded.

At some point in the far future the PCs will encounter these forces
face to face.

If the character is required, then we find something else to do (Magic,
Roborally, see a movie, etc).

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 13:21:13 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Physical Adepts

As may or may not be known to the world at large, I think Phys-ads are
biased against in SRII. So, in my quest to give them a helping hand, I
tossed this idea around with my players:

I don't like the fact that a physical adept *has* to initiate to gain more
abilities. It doesn't fit my worldview. For a while, I was giving them a .5
discount to the multiplier for initiation, but 1)They still end up with
ridiculous initiate grades, and 2) it doesn't help all that much.

So I decided to do make buying a magic point worth of physical adept
abilities 15 karma. Flat rate, no changes. (Umm, that's about two runs for
my game, what with individual karma awards.) This does not change the
physical adept's actual magic rating.

If he wants to initiate, the cost for grade 0 is 18 (less if he takes an
ordeal/does it with a group.) Each additional grade of initiation costs
(6+(next grade)*3)-15. (Again, adjust the multiplier as necessary.) A
physical adept may only initiate to a level equal to the number of magic
points worth of powers he has -6 (i.e., his initiate grade is limited by
the amount of magic points he's bought.)

A physical mage buys magic points for his physad side, and initiates *at
full cost* on his magical side. He is *not* limited in grade by the number
of magic points he has gotten. His magic rating is that of his mage side.
If he loses all his mage magic rating, he may then initiate as a physad
does, because that is all he is now.

Any comments?

I believe that this would make physical adepts a little more interesting
and playable without overpowering them.
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 13:06:18 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: question

On Monday, July 21, 1997 05:22, Simon T.
Sailer[SMTP:Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT] wrote:
> > We generally either leave them out if they weren't essential to the
> > plotline or we're in a bad mood.
> >
> > Lady Jestyr
>
> You leave them out even if the character didn't have time to leave?
> So he just disappears sometimes and reappears later? Well, thats the
> easiest sulution, but the least satisfying one.

In Shadowrun, I try to give a logical explanation of why the PC is not
interacting with the rest of the party. It's also easier in SR than in a
fantasy game.

--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:21:55 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Bows and crossbows
In-Reply-To: <199707210642.AAA12691@******> from "Caun Haskins" at Jul
20,
97 01:44:13 am
Content-Type: text

Caun Haskins wrote:
|
| David wrote:
| I disagree. "Free actions are relatively simple, nearly automatic
| actions that require little or no effort to accomplish." Picking up
| an arrow is pretty easy, but nocking(sp?) the thing requires some
| concentration (I have a fair ammount of RL experience on this one).
|
| Wrong! (no offense) but knocking an arrow is natural, I have some
| experience in archery (won a couple kid tourneys) I don't know the SR
| equivenenlt of the skill level (maybe 4/5) at that level maybe lower It
| defiantly should be a free action!

Well, it's not just how easy it is, but how much time it takes in SR
terms, IMO (and I think SR's opinion too, but I've been wrong on that
before :)

Look at the list of Free Actions. Each one takes about 1/10 of a
second. Now the list of Simple Actions. Each one is no longer than
1/2 a second. I don't know about you, but even if I do it perfectly
I can't ready a bow in the time it takes to change gun mode, change
position, fire a weapon, insert a clip, etc. So I think FASA is
being very generous in allowing a character to ready a bow with a
Simple Action. Now, they may be overly generous in allowing a
character to ready a crossbow with a Simple Action. I'd require a
complex action. And that may be the best solution of all, IMHO.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:38:12 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Physical Adepts
In-Reply-To: <199707211718.LAA25988@******> from "Jonathan Hurley" at Jul
21,
97 01:21:13 pm
Content-Type: text

Jonathan Hurley wrote:
|
| So I decided to do make buying a magic point worth of physical adept
| abilities 15 karma. Flat rate, no changes. (Umm, that's about two runs for
| my game, what with individual karma awards.) This does not change the
| physical adept's actual magic rating.
|
| If he wants to initiate, the cost for grade 0 is 18 (less if he takes an
| ordeal/does it with a group.) Each additional grade of initiation costs
| (6+(next grade)*3)-15.

Why the -15? For each grade of initiation he's getting some pretty
good metamagic abilities.

| A physical adept may only initiate to a level equal to the number of magic
| points worth of powers he has -6 (i.e., his initiate grade is limited by
| the amount of magic points he's bought.)

So if a physad that's purchased 2 extra points of physad abilities can only
initiate to grade 2 (just to clarify).

| I believe that this would make physical adepts a little more interesting
| and playable without overpowering them.

I like the idea of PAs being able to purchase more points to spend on
abilities, but I think you should keep the initiation rules is. If a
PA purchases extra points, and then later initiates, then he should
get the points gained for that too (a PA purchases 2 extra points for
30 karma, then initiates over time to grade 2 increasing his Magic by
2 and gets another 2 points to spend on PA abilities).

An easier way may be to allow Physads 1.5 PA Points per point of
Magic. And if a player makes a Priority A Physad, he gets 2 PA
Points per point of Magic (this one has never been tested, just an
idea that rolled out of my left ear).

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:46:25 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Mana Storms?
In-Reply-To: <199707211711.LAA24843@******> from "Caric" at Jul 21,
97 09:58:57 am
Content-Type: text

Caric wrote:
|
| > | I've been reading source material for adventures based in
| > |Australia and come across the term 'Mana Storm'...what are they, I've
| > |never heard of them before and I've read most of the Fasa books, have
| > |they been made up by someone? anyway what are they and what sort of
| > |damage do they do etc,
| >
| > Have you read "Choose your enemies carefully"?
| > Verner sees a few Mana storms in Aussieland when he's after the really
| > powerfull focus in Airs(sp?) Rock.....
|
| IIRC they exist in Tir na Nog as well. I think that sourcebook explains
| them a bit, but I don't have it here with me. Anyone else have info on
| this?

"The dreaded doineann draoidheil, permanent storms of magical energy
that disrupt all magical operations..." The force rating of the
storms is applied to all TN for all magical operations in the area of
the storm. They can also be harnesed by *very* powerful mages, which
can use the energy to temporarily increase their magic pool. The storms
also attract spirits and magical beings.

I don't think their the same thing as the mana storms in Australia.
I got the impression that those storms were dangerous to anything in
their path.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:01:49 -0700
Reply-To: hernandez@********.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: hernandez <hernandez@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Mana Storms?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Spike wrote:
> > | I've been reading source material for adventures based in
> > |Australia and come across the term 'Mana Storm'...what are they, I've
> > |never heard of them before and I've read most of the Fasa books, have
> > |they been made up by someone? anyway what are they and what sort of
> > |damage do they do etc,
> Caric wrote:
> IIRC they exist in Tir na Nog as well. I think that sourcebook explains
> them a bit, but I don't have it here with me. Anyone else have info on
> this?
<Tir Na Nog pg. 145>
They are called "Doineann Draoidheil" and are permanent storms of magical
energy that disrupt magical operations. The Force Rating applies as a
modifier to TN's for all magical operations. Initiates of the Order of the
Sun, Moon, and Stars are the only ones potentially powerful enough to
control it. Any Initiate attempting a magical operation near or within the
storm may make a Magic Test against a TN equal to 2x the Force Rating of
the storm, -1 per 2 grades of initiation rounding up. If unsuccessful
Initiate suffers a 9D Drain.
To determine how much energy he can use, he rolls one die for each success
in his Magic Test, subtracting 1 from each roll. Dice are then totaled up
to the Force Rating of the storm. The Initiate adds that number of dice to
his Magic Pool. That represents the total he can use in magical or astral
operations. This bonus lasts for a number of minutes determined the same
way. Once power is let go, Initiate suffers a 9D Drain.
Spirits and magical beings are also attracted by the storms and a prudent
Initiate always brings a bodyguard and a friendly spirit or two to help
watch his back. Grade 6 Initiates are said to brave the storms as part of a
Quest Ordeal.

Hope this helps
MoonShadow
In the begining Man created God;
and in the image of Man created he him

hernandez@********.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 15:15:16 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Things that always annoyed you in SR2....
In-Reply-To: <ufracv6k0g.fsf@*******.hanse.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0

In message <ufracv6k0g.fsf@*******.hanse.de>, "Shadowrun ML demon
<shadowrn-ml@*******.hanse.de>" <shadowrn-ml@*******.HANSE.DE> writes
>"Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK> writes:
>> It's nasty, but far from being utterly and totally fatal. WP casualties
>> survive quite nicely today.
>
>Uhm - I find this pretty hard to believe, I have to admit. As far as I
>know having about 40% of your skin burned to third degree is already
>lethal and even hot water can cause third degree burns without any
>problems. So something that is sticky and burns a few hundred degrees
>(what IS the exact temperature, btw.) is causing third degree burns
>within fractions of a second... someone surviving being splashed with
>that stuff (without any special equipment, of course). Maybe if you
>only got a few drops... but whatever has been hit got a third degree
>burn, so if more than 40% of the body has been hit you are dead.

Sure: but look at the size of a WP grenade. It's the size of a soft-
drink can. If you're ten feet from it when it bursts, you're going to
catch a few chunks, not get covered over 40% of your body.

Secondly, the WP has to burn through your clothing and equipment.
Webbing gear and body armour will stop WP burns nicely, as will a
helmet.

Even your fatigues are fire-retardant (or at least British Army combats
are) so small pieces of WP won't turn you into a human torch.

>> Remember, it's not just you: you have team-mates to help you and they,
>> too, can administer treatment,
>
>Yeah - but there is hardly anything you can do once a certain amount
>of skin has been burned... at least not nowadays. I could imagine,
>though, that in the future you'd have tanks with some special liquid
>that could take over the functions of the skin until the body had a
>chance to regenerate.

Again, the problem is getting enough of the skin burned.

>> They'll only suck the flame into the engine compartment, if that. WP
>> isn't effective against any military vehicle tougher than a truck (even
>> Land Rovers can shrug it off)
>
>Uhm. So what happens to the electronics and the rubber & plastic parts
>of the engine when they get exposed to flames that burn at several
>hundret degrees... my experience is that plastic, rubber and
>electronics don't really like this.

The engine doesn't get directly exposed to the flame. Look at some of
the news from Northern Ireland: we've been building Land Rovers to shrug
off petrol bombs for decades. The biggest problem is seeing where you're
going through the flames :)

>> Disagree. The burning damage is more realistic. Remember, unless you're
>> carrying the grenade when it explodes, you're only being hit by a few
>> pieces, not coated head-to-toe.
>
>O.k. - first: We are not talking about the explosion damage, right ?
>The grenade affects an area of 10 meters diameter (considering a loss
>of power niveau of 1/.5m - I wasn't able to find any other statement
>about the area covered by a WP grenade) and things in the center most
>probably get pretty much splashed... otherwise the reach wouldn't be
>as far.

If it's right next to you, you're dead.

If it's ten feet away, you're in terrible pain and out of combat for
some time... but you'll almost certainly survive.

>So I can imagine that people/objects outside the core of the explosion
>have a good chance of survival (although they probably get seriously
>hurt), but in the core of the explosion ? I don't think so. A damage
>code of "L" for burning white phosphorus on your skin is far too
>low.

By standard SR rules, a fragmentation grenade at zero range cannot kill
you...

>Of course I know that you have more knowledge about weapons than I do,
>but if you say people "survive easily" through an attack by white
>phosphorus I'd like to know more about the factors that led to his
>survival.

Basically, the fact that WP is less lethal than is widely supposed.

It _does_ create horrific, incapacitating injuries that scare the hell
out of anyone nearby, and it does present significant challenges for
medical treatment, but Falklands experience (where both sides made some
use of WP weapons) indicated that fatalities were low.

It's easier to treat and recover from burns, than it is from deep
fragmentation wounds.


--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:46:34 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: Physical Adepts

On Monday, July 21, 1997 13:38, David Buehrer[SMTP:dbuehrer@****.ORG]
wrote:
> Jonathan Hurley wrote:
> |
> | So I decided to do make buying a magic point worth of physical adept
> | abilities 15 karma. Flat rate, no changes. (Umm, that's about two runs
for
> | my game, what with individual karma awards.) This does not change the
> | physical adept's actual magic rating.
> |
> | If he wants to initiate, the cost for grade 0 is 18 (less if he takes
an
> | ordeal/does it with a group.) Each additional grade of initiation costs
> | (6+(next grade)*3)-15.
>
> Why the -15? For each grade of initiation he's getting some pretty
> good metamagic abilities.

Because he already bought the point of magic that the initiate grade would
normally give him. (He does *not* get the point of magic from initiation to
add to his PA abilities. Sorry if I wasn't clear)

> | A physical adept may only initiate to a level equal to the number of
magic
> | points worth of powers he has -6 (i.e., his initiate grade is limited
by
> | the amount of magic points he's bought.)
>
> So if a physad that's purchased 2 extra points of physad abilities can
only
> initiate to grade 2 (just to clarify).

Yes. (For the reason I clarified above)

--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:16:42 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Greg Childress <greg@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: FASA Being Sold?
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Spike wrote
>I imagine that's WHY they bought T$R...
>So their T$R subsidiary can sell RPGs whilst the main company still sells
>Magic the addiction.....

Actually, the reason is probably that the sales of M:tG have been dropping
steadily for a while so the company is looking to diversify to avoid falling
apart. The lads at WotC took a survey of the gaming companies and found one
that was faltering but had really good name-recognition and bought it.
According to Mike Mulvilhill <sp?> (I can't pronounce that name for anything
anyway which put me in the position of having to call him "Mike" in
conversation from the start, he didn't seem to mind too much.) TSR would
have probably been out of business by now or soon had the acquisition not
occurred and his take on the buy-out, which I agree with, is that with this
in mind the purchase was a good thing. The collapse of AD&D would have been
a blow to the entire industry as it is the flagship game. It is the fact
that WotC did have to look around the industry to find a company to buy that
is sparking most of the rumors.
I just got back from origins and I have to say that the atmosphere was kind
of odd. WotC seemed to be more quiet and unobtrusive than usual. In fact
the only real effect they had on the convention was the annoying and
pathetic fourteen year-old Magic zombies wandering around and pitifully
asking if you wanted to play this game (clutching deck) as if they were some
sort of weird beggars and the increase in weight the average attendee was
lugging. The con had a real aura of growth, as if the sale of TSR made
everyone realize that no game is permanent and fostered interest in new
games.


<greg>

noir rocks!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:26:54 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
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Bull wrote:
> Also, I don;t keep track of ammo, and don;t make my players do that either,
> except in extreme situations... Thus going for the John Woo Automatic
> Reloads in less than a second...;]

Hmmm...I think that running out of ammo makes it waaaayy more fun. :)

Caric-the-*click*-frag!!!-shaman
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:37:05 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Munchies!!! [Was Sr3 Combat spells]
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Barbie wrote:
>
> At 18-Jul-97 wrote Caric:
>
> >Us either...I think I had the highest total ever with somewhere in the
> >neighborhood of 200.
>
> As I have mention at the beginning of the week I have just crossed
> 500 karma :-]

Right, I was just pointing out the highest total in our group, and Caric
is dead now anyway so I think the highest total is 5 right now. :)

Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:39:43 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: White phosphorus (Re: [SR3] Things that always annoyed you in
SR
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Gurth wrote:
> > > It's nasty, but far from being utterly and totally fatal. WP casualties
> > > survive quite nicely today.
> >
> > Uhm - I find this pretty hard to believe, I have to admit. As far as I
> > know having about 40% of your skin burned to third degree is already
> > lethal
>
> 80%, I thought it was. At any rate I'd rather not find out :)

Either way, how would you like top be the guy who has to decide what
percentage of someones' body is covered by burns? <shudder> Not fun.

Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:54:38 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkin man :P
Comments: To: trrkt@******.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 06:10 AM 7/20/97 +0000, Mike (Leszek Karlik) wrote:
>Hmmm...
>
>I've been reading through the Paranoid Animals of NA, and saw the
>Speed Samurai archetype...
>
>What a wussie... :P

<snip>

Of course, what you're suggesting isn't a starting character, and the speed
elf is.


Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/

The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton

Gencon count down: 16 days
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 12:52:14 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
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Paolo Marcucci wrote:
> It's been a while from when I read some posts about GenCon. I definitely
> will be there on 7th, who else?
>
> GRANITE, you still mantain this list?

Well since Granite is off to part unknown (well Texas) Let me update for
him.
Okay AKAIK:
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Nice people going to GenCon:
>
> FASAMike [If there are enough hours in the day]
> GRANITE
> Mike Broadwater
> Bull
> Fro (maybe)
> The Bookworm
> Gossamer
> Mike Paff
> Caric
> Court Schuett
> Adam (another one or Fro?)
> Nick Van
> Droopy
> Czar Eggbert
> Paolo & Armanda (my gf)
> Loki
> NightLife
> Onyx
> Smilin' Ted
> The Digital Mage aka Grant Erswell
> Steve K.
Topcat (I believe I saw somewhere that he would be there)
Kabael

...that's about it so far...anymore corrections?

Caric-the-temporary-Granite-stand-in-shaman
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 13:00:30 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: Mana Storms?
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David Buehrer wrote:
>
> Caric wrote:
> |
> | > | I've been reading source material for adventures based in
> | > |Australia and come across the term 'Mana Storm'...what are they, I've
> | > |never heard of them before and I've read most of the Fasa books, have
> | > |they been made up by someone? anyway what are they and what sort of
> | > |damage do they do etc,
> | >
> | > Have you read "Choose your enemies carefully"?
> | > Verner sees a few Mana storms in Aussieland when he's after the really
> | > powerfull focus in Airs(sp?) Rock.....
> |
> | IIRC they exist in Tir na Nog as well. I think that sourcebook explains
> | them a bit, but I don't have it here with me. Anyone else have info on
> | this?
>
> "The dreaded doineann draoidheil, permanent storms of magical energy
> that disrupt all magical operations..." The force rating of the
> storms is applied to all TN for all magical operations in the area of
> the storm. They can also be harnesed by *very* powerful mages, which
> can use the energy to temporarily increase their magic pool. The storms
> also attract spirits and magical beings.
>
> I don't think their the same thing as the mana storms in Australia.
> I got the impression that those storms were dangerous to anything in
> their path.

That could certainly by possible, but the ones in the Tir were the only
think close that I could think of that would have stats in SR.

Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 17:57:54 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
In-Reply-To: <01BC940A.17C68040@********.u96.stevens-tech.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0

In message <01BC940A.17C68040@********.u96.stevens-tech.edu>, Jonathan
Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU> writes
>Howdy. (This is *not* a cue for the Bull-Bot to Bot me. <looks left, looks
>right>) Anyway, I was BSing with one of my players on the ride home from
>seeing Contact (Good flick) and wandered into this thought: Most weapons
>that fire Saboted ammo today are smoothbore. That being Tank guns and
>Shotguns. Then I looked in my handy copy of 3G3 and noted that normal
>bullets are 3:1 l:w, while most saboted rounds are 10:1 l:w. IIRC, this is
>because long-arm penetrators are unstable if you spin them. (Example: Take
>a top and a pencil. Spin them, drop them. Which hits the ground on its
>side?)

Point of history.

Armour piercing ammo evolved steadily. Up to the 1940s, AP rounds were
just full-calibre chunks of steel. Larger AP rounds might have burster
charges and base fuses, but most tank and anti-tank guns were 37mm-40mm
in calibre and didn't have room.

As tank armour improved, the AT guns got bigger. It was well known that
armour piercing performance depended on how fast the projectile hit the
armour, how hard it was, and how heavy it was. Thus, AT guns got longer
barrels, fired at higher velocities, and the rounds began to be made of
higher-carbon hardened steel (harder) or tungsten (heavier and harder).

It was also noticed that, to make a shell travel fast in the barrel and
get the highest muzzle velocity, it should be a large-calibre
lightweight projectile. Thus, HVAP (High Velocity Armour Piercing)
appeared: a light-metal projectile with a steel or tungsten core, that
achieved spectacular velocity.

However, to retain its velocity in flight, the projectile should be as
small and dense as possible: HVAP lost velocity and accuracy rapidly at
longer ranges.

One solution was "squeezebore", where the projectile's hard dense core
was surrounded by skirts of aluminium and the barrel tapered at the
muzzle: thus you got a large light round in the barrel, and a small
dense one in flight. This limited the gun (couldn't fire HE rounds) and
also compromised accuracy.

Some bright spark replaced the tapered end of the barrel, with a skirt
(or 'sabot') around the penetrator that fell away outside the barrel:
hence, Armour Piercing, Discarding Sabot.

This was still fired from rifled guns, and the penetrator had a L/D
ratio of about 4:1 to 5:1.

Further advances in materials and metallurgy led to the switch to long-
rod penetrators for tank guns, having L/D ratios of 10:1 or higher.
These cannot be spin-stabilised, so the penetrator is fin-stabilised.
Thus the modern Armour Piercing, Fin Stabilised, Discarding Sabot rounds
(APFSDS) used by most tanks today.


>So I thought about how this applied to Shadowrun. OK, shotguns have no
>problem. But what about rifled small-arms? How do they deal with APDS ammo?
>I thought of three ways. One, (the easy way) was to make sure that the
>sabot did not expand enough to engage the rifling of the barrel.

Bad move. Loses you accuracy and velocity.

>Two,
>placing inserts in the rifling of the barrel to change the weapon into a
>pseudo-smoothbore.

Why not just change barrels? Doing this for a 5.56mm rifle could be
interesting.

>Three, replacing the barrel with a smoothbore barrel.

Oh, you thought of it too :)

>Four, not letting the PCs have APDS <g>.

Five, which is what the British Army does today for its 120mm rifled
tank gun: put a slipping driving band on the sabot. It skids over the
rifling rather than engaging in it, and so only a very slight spin
(which helps the sabot to discard cleanly) is imparted to the
projectile.

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:12:18 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Collins" <scollins@**.UML.EDU>
Subject: Re: I guess it had to happen sometime;
In-Reply-To: <199707200314.XAA01810@****.provide.net>
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On Sat, 19 Jul 1997, Justin Pinnow wrote:

->> From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
->> Date: Friday, July 18, 1997 1:57 AM
->
->> indulge a Shadowrun addiction and a Magic addiciton. Some of my freinds
->> that are really into magic have sunk hundreds of $$ into that game. If
->> had sunk that much I would have an almost complete library.
->
->I had a similar problem a few years ago. I sunk a few hundred dollars into
->MtG and had a very hard time keeping up with their quarterly updates.
->Thus, I gave away (yes, GAVE) my several hundred dollar MtG collection.
->

I have never had this problem. So far I have spent just under $300 on
MTG (about 1/3 of what I have spent between SR and Battletech) and
that is only because my original $180 set was stolen out of my car and
I needed to replace it. Can I beat the guys who have spent $10,000
(yes I know a few who did) on their sets every time. No, but I do
manage to beat them about 40% of the Time. My problem with the game is
that I can't find anyone to play with now. All of my friends got the
addiction and then got over it and now they won't play because they
are afraid that they will become re addicted.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 17:04:49 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Collins" <scollins@**.UML.EDU>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <232DA9B56D3@********.uibk.ac.at>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Mon, 21 Jul 1997, Simon T. Sailer wrote:

->HI!
->Just one simple, not too important question to all those who play
->shadowrun regularly...
->What If a player is missing at one session? Do you let another one
->play his character? Or do you think of a way to let the character
->disappear for some time?
->
->If somebody else plays the character, aren't ther problems with the
->stats since the character sheet in question should be missing as
->well?
->
->Ok, I'ts really not too important, but anyway, Id like to know how
->others play...
->
That depends on where we are in the story. If we are just about to
enter a combat or inside the Renraku complex when we have to call it
quits then by all means that character will be there next session. But
if they are still in the legwork part of the run well then that
character will have a close relative die or some such to get him out
for the night. I overcome the character sheet problem by making the
characters leave coppies of their characters with me. If for some
reason they didn't and the character can't be written out then at the
first oppourtunity the character will be killed (to bad for the player
he knew the rules). If I do have the sheet then he will be run by
another played with me holding veto power on any actions if I think he
is being played out of character (no making the absent guys character
charge the machine gun nest to cover the rest of the teams escape).
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:08:58 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In-Reply-To: <33D3BDEE.33B4@********.com>
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At 12:52 7/21/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Well since Granite is off to part unknown (well Texas) Let me update for
>him.
>Okay AKAIK:
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> Nice people going to GenCon:

...

>...that's about it so far...anymore corrections?

Yup..strike my name, barring my winning the lottery. Don't have the bucks
to make it this year.
Next year, however, everything changes <g>

-Adam
Who wants to go, damnit.

http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
GC3.1 GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 17:18:57 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@*****.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970721150858.006c28d0@****.lis.ab.ca>
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On 21 Jul 97 at 15:08, Adam J wrote:

> Yup..strike my name, barring my winning the lottery. Don't have the bucks
> to make it this year.

Oh well, so much for the unsupervised party we were going to have on
the list..... :)

> Next year, however, everything changes <g>

For me too. I'm there.

--
===DREKHEAD==================================drekhead@***.net===
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
================================================================
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot
stomping on a human face...forever. -George Orwell
----------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 17:17:14 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: question
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 03:56 AM 7/20/97 -0600, Caun Haskins wrote these timeless words:
>> Brainwashing is bad.
>>
> Copy that! (a bit OT though) i realy wasn't talking about that.
>Bull's idea of NPC ing them works ok as well, still think getting rid
>of them for this session is bes though.
>brains are terible things to mess with I rely dislike that false memory
>spell in the hands of Johnson, that sucks!
>
Agreed.though fortunately I haven't run across this one (and with our
willpowers, It's doubtful it WILL work, unless done by a Dragon or one of
the IE, in which case, I WAT to forget...:))

>Caun :}
>
>P.S. hey Bull when do you sleep? I don't think you ever stop posting,
>just wondering.
>
Ummm... yes? No? maybe?

Heh... Actually, I don;t sleep much, and when I do, it's fairly odd
hours...:] Right now I'm hard at work on Chapter 6 of Quicksilver
Lightning so that everyone can stop bugging me for more of it. I'll
probably stay up long enough to finish up at least one more chapter, edit a
couple more projects for the next issue of the TSS (Gods... This could be
the All Bull issue, if Fro uses everything I hand to him for Issue 4 :)).

Ok, ok... I'm shutting up and getting back to work...:]

Bull-the-never-sleeping-Ork-Decker
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:51:55 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Totems
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 21 Jul 1997 03:13:32 PDT."
<12595.199707211013@*****.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>

>|YOu know, Ever since I joined this list you guys have talked about the
>|Discworld books... But for the life of me I can't find them anywhere! The
>|only Discworld anything I'd seen or heard of before joining the list was
>|the video game...
>|
>|Hmmm... Maybe time to order some books?
>
>One word.... Yes!
>
>If you want to get them in the correct order, it's:
>The Colour of Magic, The Light Fantastic, Equal Rites, Mort, Wyrd Sisters
>(now a Channel 4 cartoon ;) ), errrr.... HELP.... There're so many I've
>forgotten the order......

Umm.. My suggestion if you _really_ want to get them in order is: buy
them all at once and read the "other books" listings.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 21:26:04 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Elveses, Goblins and other stuff
In-Reply-To: <yam7140.515.136475920@****.amigaworld.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0

In article <yam7140.515.136475920@****.amigaworld.com>, Barbie
<barbie@**********.COM> rambled on endlessly about Dark Conspiracy (Was
- Re: FASA Being Sold? Semi-OT?)
>At 20-Jul-97 wrote Avenger:
>
>
>>By the Tolkien mythology, which seems a strong influence in the fantasy
>>genre, orks are a race derived from Elves. They are in fact Sauron's
>>corruption created from his desire to become like the creator. He
>>used/uses Elves to create the Orks. Orks, however are more than capable
>>of breeding, and hence you get variations on the theme.
>
>Not truly wrong but not truly right.
>Morgoth created the Orcs from the Elves trough genetic manipulation
>of Elves .

Sorry, my fault, the thread made me think of the breeding pits below
Mount Doom, and thus Sauron, who was Morgoths' favoured (IIRC)) so I
made the connection and the brain screwed it up - again. :) The main
problem with reading a whole pile of "epic" fantasy novels is the
similarity with the plots tends to confuse the mind occassionally. I
made a similar mistake once in another list where I confused Sauron with
another dark enemy from a different series of books - something I'm
particularly good at - confusing things that is. :)



--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:05:45 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: WoTC on TV (was: Re: WOTC/FASA)
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 21 Jul 1997 02:48:15 PDT."
<1.5.4.32.19970721094815.008459dc@********.co.za>

>OK as an earnest role player and a fanatical card gamer I would like to know
>where the Magic=Munchkin link even begins. Please.

It comes from the only _real_ way to win against a hardcore M:tG player:

Spend him to death.

That's right, you need to spend more on your deck than he/she/it does.
Some strategy in choosing the cards is helpful, but the main thing is
to buy all the really expensive stuff.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:04:05 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:26 PM 7/21/97 -0700, Caric wrote these timeless words:
>Bull wrote:
>> Also, I don;t keep track of ammo, and don;t make my players do that either,
>> except in extreme situations... Thus going for the John Woo Automatic
>> Reloads in less than a second...;]
>
>Hmmm...I think that running out of ammo makes it waaaayy more fun. :)
>
Yeah, but... I'm lazy, and so are my players...

If you've ever played the Star Wars RPG, there is a concept in that game
called the WIld Die. basically, it's an off color die that you roll for
pretty much every dice test, even if you only need to roll one die, you
roll that one.

The effects are varied in SW, depending on the GM, but basically rolling a
1 is BAD, and rolling 6 is GOOD. Since SW doesn't use an open ended d6, I
always used a 6 on the wild die as an open ended 6, while on a one,
something really bad happened. This varied depending on what I wanted to
make happen, but most often it meant that they ran out of ammo (Those power
cells on blasters are SO darned unpredictable...;] ).

Now, I've been thinking of instituting something similar for SR, though I'm
not sure exactly what a 6 result could be since there already are open
ended sixes... Howeverm a 1 could definately mean something like out of
ammo, or a gun jam...;]

>Caric-the-*click*-frag!!!-shaman
>
Heh... i like it...;]

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 08:10:58 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970721052827.2fc7b8a6@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> Agreed.though fortunately I haven't run across this one (and with our
> willpowers, It's doubtful it WILL work, unless done by a Dragon or one of
> the IE, in which case, I WAT to forget...:))

Huh. The guy it happened to was a PhysAd with Willpower 6 or 7 and the
adept power Iron Will (or whatever it's called). Don't feel TOO safe. :)

Lady Jestyr

-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:20:45 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mike.paff@*****.COM
Subject: Re: The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma)

From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
>
> If you've ever played the Star Wars RPG, there is a concept in that game
> called the WIld Die.
>
> The effects are varied in SW, depending on the GM, but basically rolling a
> 1 is BAD, and rolling 6 is GOOD.
>
> Now, I've been thinking of instituting something similar for SR, though I'm
> not sure exactly what a 6 result could be since there already are open
> ended sixes... Howeverm a 1 could definately mean something like out of
> ammo, or a gun jam...;]
>
Unless your players don't take care of their guns, or they are full-auto freaks,
I think this would cause your BAD result to happen much to often. Statistically,
every sixth time someone fires a gun, it will jam, run out of ammo, etc., which
I think might be a little too often to be believable.

Perhaps if a one comes up, reroll the Wild Die, and depending on the situation
and the number rolled, you get varied results.

For example:

For a standard heavy pistol with a reasonable sized clip:
1 = Jam
2 = Out of ammo
3-6 = no effect

For a revolver or magazine fed weapon:
1 = Jam
2-5(or 6) = Out of ammo

For an LMG on full auto:
1 = Jam/smoking barrel/ammo spontaneously cooks off
2-5 Out of ammo

If the gun has been poorly maintained, or the ammo is of questionable quality,
increase the chance of a jam/misfire.

Mike Paff
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 08:23:04 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970721174149.2fc7fce2@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> The effects are varied in SW, depending on the GM, but basically rolling a
> 1 is BAD, and rolling 6 is GOOD. Since SW doesn't use an open ended d6, I
> always used a 6 on the wild die as an open ended 6, while on a one,
> something really bad happened. This varied depending on what I wanted to
> make happen, but most often it meant that they ran out of ammo (Those power
> cells on blasters are SO darned unpredictable...;] ).

Heh... one of my friends had really bad luck with his wild die. :) He
blew up 6 or 7 blaster powerpacks in a row. Very professional, tough
bounty hunter - with a gun that keeps exploding. :)

I started calling him the Big Bad Bounty Hunter... until he hit me. :)

> "Gen Con, here I come!"
> -- Me

I hate you. :)

Lady Jestyr

-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 08:29:47 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma)
In-Reply-To: <199707212220.PAA08872@*******.>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> Perhaps if a one comes up, reroll the Wild Die, and depending on the situation
> and the number rolled, you get varied results.
>
> For a standard heavy pistol with a reasonable sized clip:
> 1 = Jam
> 2 = Out of ammo
> 3-6 = no effect

I don't think Out of Ammo should be included... "Yep, I pull out my
Manhawk. Check it's loaded. Yup? Okay... I run into the Stuffer Shack
and yell 'Give me all your money!' I shoot a customer to make my point."

<rolling dice> "Okay... you're out of ammo."

"WHAT???"


Lady Jestyr

-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 08:37:52 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: A Li'l Ole Question
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I know this thread has been covered many times before, so replies can go
by private email...

What movies would everyone recommend for Shadowrun? And what's
"Shadowrunny" (ew!) about them?

Lady Jestyr

-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 19:05:21 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: SR-type movies (was: A Li'l Ole Question)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
> Date: Monday, July 21, 1997 6:37 PM

> I know this thread has been covered many times before, so replies can go
> by private email...

That wouldn't be any fun... :)

> What movies would everyone recommend for Shadowrun? And what's
> "Shadowrunny" (ew!) about them?

STRANGE DAYS is a good precurser to Shadowrun. It gives you a feel for the
world at the turn of the century and the tension that is growing. It also
covers simsense and gives a solid view of corruption within the police,
drug/simsense pushing, the underground world of music and clubs, and many
other things that capture the true flavor of the Shadowrun universe. This
is my favorite Shadowrun-type movie. (Primarily because it captures the
feel of the universe better than any other movie I have seen, IMO, and
because Angela Bassett kicks 31 flavors of ass....) :)

SNEAKERS is based around a corporate infiltration that can easily be viewed
as a Shadowrun, but it lacks the atmosphere of the Shadowrun universe (it's
set in the present day). It's a good movie for watching a run from start
to finish and what takes place throughout.

BLADE RUNNER ....well, need I say more? This is THE classic movie for this
genre.

JOHHNY NUEMONIC (sp?) covers some of the feel for the universe, as well as
some of the hardware involved (cyberwear). The movie is sometimes reviewed
as cheesy, and I am inclined to agree to a point. However, I believe some
things are very well done. For example: they show a day in the life of a
street doc, they explore the use of a monofiliment whip (even though it
glows), and (most importantly) they discuss how being too wired (reflex
enhanced) can get you a bad reputation on the streets. Take the movie with
a grain of salt, but I would still recommend renting it.

That's all that come to mind at the moment.

Enjoy :)

> Lady Jestyr

Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 19:12:42 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Walker of Shadows <OABBrother@***.COM>
Subject: [SR3] Flames (sort of)

I, personally have had enough of SR3 in my E-mail box and would like to
inform the rest of you people that nothing even coming close to it will be
accepted.


Flames and carp will be thrown out as well.


Walker of Shadows.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:25:00 MST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Denzil Kruse <dkruse@***.AZ05.BULL.COM>
Subject: Re: SR-type movies (was: A Li'l Ole Question)

> What movies would everyone recommend for Shadowrun? And what's
> "Shadowrunny" (ew!) about them?

Mission: Impossible, obviously. I especially liked Tom Cruise's sleight of
hand with the CD. I also liked the idea of the disavowed list, and Tom
going to recruit them.

Heat: This movie, with Robert Dinero, Al Pacino, and Val Kilmer, didn't look
very good at first, but when I watched it, I thought it was great. These
guys struck me as a very professional team and I enjoyed seeing them work
together. Course, they didn't have much conscience about killing people who
got in their way, but it was interesting seeing them operate. I really
hated the ending. It just didn't seem right - I think Hollywood just
doesn't like to make movies where the criminals get away with it.

Congo: This movie pretty much sucked, but I did like the beginning part
where they are trying to make it to their jungle destination. Dealing with
funding for the trip, negotiating with small country governments, and border
running and hiring mercenary guides.

The Professional: The old-hit-man-trying-to-quit story, but this one was
really good. Starring Jean Reno, the evil helicopter pilot from Mission:
Impossible.

Disorganized Crime: I don't think this movie did very well at the box
office, but I loved it. A criminal (Corbin Bernson) goes to a small town in
Montana and decides to hit the bank. He sends letters out to a bunch of
specialists: car driver/stealer (Lou Diamond Philips), a bank vault opener,
a security/demolitionist (Fred Gywne), and a weapons specialist. But, two
cops from Newark (Ed O'Neil) capture Corbin Bernson right after he mails the
letters, so the rest show up and don't know what to do. Meanwhile, Corbin
escapes, and wanders the countryside, with the Newark cops bumbling after
him. The criminals also bumble around trying to raise money to get one of
them (an alcoholic) out of jail for drunk driving. Corbin was the leader,
and without any leadership these guys argued all the time. It was a really
funny movie, and fun to see these criminals ply their trade.

Denzil Kruse
d.kruse@****.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:31:15 -0700
Reply-To: gdeych@********.att.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gregory Deych <gdeych@********.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: SR-type movies (was: A Li'l Ole Question)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Justin Pinnow wrote:
>
> > From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
> > Date: Monday, July 21, 1997 6:37 PM

>
> > What movies would everyone recommend for Shadowrun? And what's
> > "Shadowrunny" (ew!) about them?
>

I always thought that "HEAT" was quite SR-like.
--
gdeych@********.att.net
Please remove "NOSPAM" from the e-mail address before
answering.

His eyes were eggs of unstable crystal, vibrating with a
frequency whose name was rain and the sound of trains,
suddenly sprouting in a humming forest of hair-fine glass
spines.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:40:52 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:52 PM 7/21/97 -0700, Caric wrote:
>Paolo Marcucci wrote:
>> It's been a while from when I read some posts about GenCon. I definitely
>> will be there on 7th, who else?

>Topcat (I believe I saw somewhere that he would be there)

Yep, and I'm going for free! *high 5's Mikes Broadwater & Nelson* ;^D
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 17:42:58 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: [OT] GenCon
In-Reply-To: <199707212115.RAA15485@www.ctghub.com>;
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 17:18 7/21/97 +0000, you wrote:
>On 21 Jul 97 at 15:08, Adam J wrote:
>
>> Yup..strike my name, barring my winning the lottery. Don't have the bucks
>> to make it this year.
>
>Oh well, so much for the unsupervised party we were going to have on
>the list..... :)

Well, I have good news and bad news.
Good news: I will be going away for at least a week sometime in August.
Bad news: I will most likely be appointing a deputy Assistant Fearless Leader.

<Big Asshole Evil Grin>

-Adam

http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
GC3.1 GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 20:45:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: [Sorta OT] A new game and advice
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

OK, this really isn't the list for it, I know, but... I trust your
jusdgements and advice (go figure...:)).

Anyways, starting tomorrow, I'm running an AD&D campiagn, specifically one
set in teh Forgotten Realms campign setting. I'm not sure yet how many
players I'll have, but the majority of them have little to no RPG
experience. the core of this group is a bunch of friends that play M:TG,
and now they think they're ready to take a step into RPG's.

One of the guys, Rob, has read some of the TSR FR novels (And the ones that
sparked his desire to play AD&D was the Azure Bonds trilogy which I lent
him). ROb has a little RPG experiance with Robotech from when he was in
high School (He ahsn't played anything like this in about 6 years), and
several of them play Computer Hack & Slash like Doom, Dungeon Keeper, and
the like.

I'm only marginally familiar with the FR setting, but since they offered to
shell out a bunch of cash for the campign settings and a few other books, I
figured I could accomidate.

One thing that is drawing them to this game is the magic, and the high
adventure that is seen in the novels, and as such I plan to run a campign
like that. Granted, it will probably end up a power game. BUt I've seen
low power AD&D games, and they just aren't that much fun. AD&D was meant
to be about adventure, magic and glory, and if that means a touch of
powergaming, so be it.

Plus, I know that teaching these guys to roleplay overnight will be a nigh
impossible task. The first step is learning how to play RPG's. From
there, I can develop their characters. I can think of a half dozen other
games I'd rather run for new players (Star Wars and Shadowrun being the top
two, with marvel Superheroes in close third:)), but I haven't done any AD&D
in quite a while, so... I think this could be kinda fun, going back to my
roots.

Plus, I want to run Keep on the Borderlands again. i think every gamer
should get a copy of it (YOu can find them all over) and play it through
once. It's sort of like an initiation rite. You'ld be hard pressed to
find many gamers that have played more than 10 years but HAVEN'T played
KotB, especially if they started, like most of us did, with D&D. :]:]

Anyways, here's the point of this post. What the hell do I do after that?
It's been far too long since i ran AD&D, and more importantly, I want to
eventually ween these players into more of a roleplaying atmosphere
eventually. How would you suggest doing this? What would you do in a
situation like this (Other than try to convice them to play SR. Maybe
after the card game comes out I can transfer them from Magic, to SR CCG,
then to SR RPG, but until them, this is what they want to play, and it's
either this or play cards again...:)).

Anyways, thanks, and feel free to take this private e-mail if the list
feels this isn;t an appropriate topic...;]

Bull-the-how-did-I-get-roped-into-THIS??-Ork-Decker
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 23:31:28 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: :-(
In-Reply-To: <33D3BA61.736C@********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

At 21-Jul-97 wrote Caric:



>Right, I was just pointing out the highest total in our group, and Caric
>is dead now anyway so I think the highest total is 5 right now. :)

Sad to hear this its alwasy painfull to loss a character especialy if he
had gone so far.

my he rest in peace for eternity

--
Barbie


==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.

(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)

==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 02:11:24 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <232DA9B56D3@********.uibk.ac.at>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

At 21-Jul-97 wrote Simon T. Sailer:

>HI!
>Just one simple, not too important question to all those who play
>shadowrun regularly...
>What If a player is missing at one session? Do you let another one
>play his character? Or do you think of a way to let the character
>disappear for some time?

We usualy say the character in question is out to do something of its own.
Maybe family biz or learning or so.
And if someone wants to contact the character in question the GM
points to the telephone and says call him/her.

>If somebody else plays the character, aren't ther problems with the
>stats since the character sheet in question should be missing as
>well?

Beside noone is allowed to play a character from someone else, no.
We have all characters of our group on disk in our playing area, so no
missing stats.

--
Barbie


==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.

(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)

==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 20:57:36 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 04:52 AM 7/12/97 -0400, Deosyne wrote these timeless words:
>Hey kids, how's life? Had to do a brief stint in rehab for a bitty
>relapse of the Crystal Entity, but I'm back. Ditched the WebTV unit and
>finally assembled my 'puter, so g'head and bitch if the column width is
>off. :) I'll fix it. BTW Gurth: about time to change the block in yer
>sig; the geeks have probably found a way passed it. :) So what new toys
>have the lovely folks at FASA dropped out in the passed couple months;
><hopeful>RBB2???</hopeful> One can dream.
>
>Deosyne (Shawn Baumgartner)
>
Hoi Shawn! Welcome back!!! :]

Glad to see you've managed to get a real system...:] (Web TV makes for a
nice toy, but...:))

Anyways, to answer your question...

The newest product from FASA was Target:UCAS, released this month. It
covers Bosten and Detroit, both aparentlyy "Hot Spots" following the death
of President Dunky... It also has a section on Chicago, and updates Bug City.
More importantly, however, Granite, Fro, Spike, and Myself get a Guest
appearence in the book! Yay!! :] Look for Bull, "The Best Ork Decker you
never met" :]:]

And now, for the BOT :]

+++++ BULL-BOT ACTIVATED
+++++ AUTO GREET INITIATED

Hello there, and Welcome Back list-member Deosyne! Welcome Back to the
Shadowrn Mailing List!

It's a great place, with good people and great discussion! hope ya like mail!

+++++ AUTO OFF TOPIC RANDOM GENERATOR v3.0 INITIATED
+++++ TOPIC #391

Why do Hot dogs come in packages of 10, while Hot Dog Buns come in packages
of 8??

+++++ END AUTO GREET

Anyways, good to see you back among the fold...:]

Bull-the-Welcome-Back-Ork-Decker
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 03:09:06 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970721205612.2da73434@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hmmm...

> And now, for the BOT :]

Hey! I did not get the auto-greet! What's that? Some discrimination,
or what?!1

<grin>



Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
Kilroy was here.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 21:10:31 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:53 AM 7/13/97 -0400, Deosyne wrote these timeless words:

>Like vice grips to the genital region. Now I'll have to learn to convert
>1st Ed. to 3rd! Maybe I'll give in this time and just buy the damn 3rd
><grumble>. So what's the deal this time, they merging 2nd ed. sourcebook
>with the companion and choice goodies from the supplements, or are they
>shooting for an overhaul of the system? (Mike, you still around? :)
>
No idea exactly what they're doing, and Steve kenson hasn't been very
forthcoming with the details, but... Hopefully all they're doing is
cleaning up the rules, modifying a few "trouble rules", and updating the
Matrix and Rigger sections of the book, along with some of the Tech stuff...

Look for SR3 around Gen Con next year, which is supposed to be FASA's bg
premier there...:]

As for Mike, he's Been off the list for about three months. With Summer
here, he's got a LOT of work to do. He's been prepping and finalizing
things with the SR Card Game, priemering at gen Con in a couple weeks, and
then available in Stores after that (I assume), plus Rigger 2.0 (Due around
September, withn hopefully a preview at Gen Con) and Cyberpirates (Due out
probably in October or November, and which was previewed at Origins from
what I hear).

He's been attending Conventions almost every weekend since May or so, so
that's why he isn;t current;y subscribed. Hard to keep up with your mail
when
you can't check it for 3 or 4 days, especially with THIS list...;]

Ok, that's iit... See ya! :]

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 21:14:38 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 03:09 AM 7/22/97 +0000, Mike (Leszek Karlik) wrote these timeless words:
>Hmmm...
>
>> And now, for the BOT :]
>
>Hey! I did not get the auto-greet! What's that? Some discrimination,
>or what?!1
>
><grin>
>
Sorry Mike...:]

You made the mistake of not saying you were new to the list... I can only
greet newbies if I KNOW they're newbies...:]

But if it makes you feel any better...

Welcome! :]

Bull-the-teasing-Mike-Ork-Decker
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 03:18:27 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: A Li'l Ole Question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970722083639.3675E-100000@*******.dialix.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

At 21-Jul-97 wrote Lady Jestyr:

>What movies would everyone recommend for Shadowrun? And what's
>"Shadowrunny" (ew!) about them?

My alltime favoried is ..... Wild Palms.
Realy sadistic strange story.
A plots synopsis that is hard to get by, In the first time
I have barly understand whats going on after the second episode.
No more spoiling yet . . .

Shadowrunny, hmmm I think its a good portray what can had happened
before the crash of `29.

My recommandation is go and try to find it and see it, but bewarned.
The whole thing ist 270mins long and you need every second to
stay in touch with the plot if you see it the first time.

Good luck in locating a copy of it, its realy hard to find but worth
the trouble.

--
Barbie


==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.

(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)

==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 21:20:25 +0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@*****.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: A Li'l Ole Question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970722083639.3675E-100000@*******.dialix.com.au>

On 22 Jul 97 at 8:37, Lady Jestyr wrote:

> I know this thread has been covered many times before, so replies
> can go by private email...
>
> What movies would everyone recommend for Shadowrun? And what's
> "Shadowrunny" (ew!) about them?

Usual Suspects is a good "Shadowrunny" movie, which gave me lots of
PC and NPC ideas. I also like Sneakers, and Heat, mentioned
previously, which both show the merits of good planning.
For an exaggerated idea of what can go wrong with a looney in your
group, see Resevoir Dogs. :)
Blade Runner, Johnny Mnemonic and Strange Days are good movies for
atmosphere.
Also, Grosse Pointe Blank and Seven Heads In A Duffle Bag are
interesting. :)

--

===DREKHEAD==================================drekhead@***.net====
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
=================================================================
2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 21:30:16 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: SR-type movies (was: A Li'l Ole Question)

Greetings!!!

I strongely suggest "The Usual Suspects". Very shadowish, without the tech.

The scene where the team is assembled reminded me of how I put my team
together.

Trust me, you'll love it.

-Bandit
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 04:01:39 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] EuroGenCon
In-Reply-To: <199707211445.QAA18204@*****.xs4all.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hmmm...

> > Hey Gurth! Where IS EuroGencon?????
>
> Loughborough (sp?) University. When I looked it up on the map, it appears
> to be a bit below Nottingham. I'll definitely be there for four days
> (28-31 August), but I was wondering who else from this list is planning to
> go.

Is Nottingham near London (I doubt it.)? 'Cause in August I'm in
England, so maybe I'll go... Anyway, how much will it cost?


Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
A clean desk is a sign of a cluttered desk drawer.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 04:01:39 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <trrkt@******.com>
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@******.COM>
Subject: Re: SR-type movies (was: A Li'l Ole Question)
In-Reply-To: <9707212325.AA05035@***.az05.bull.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hmmm...

> The Professional: The old-hit-man-trying-to-quit story, but this one was
> really good. Starring Jean Reno, the evil helicopter pilot from Mission:
> Impossible.

Ahh... Leon... Actually, the evil helicopter pilot in Mission:
Impossible is the Leon professional, not the other way 'round (IMHO
The Professional was much better than M:I. It's a cult movie for some
of my pals...).

Also, while we're talking about Jean Reno, another Shadowrunnish
movie would be "Nikita" (there's an US remake, called "Nina", but
it's just a lousy ripoff, and without Jean Reno to boot). I realy
recommend it (and there's Victor the Cleaner, the prototype for Leon,
played by - you guessed it - Jean Reno).


Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
(Emperor's Hammer)
Trrkt - Verpine Scout/Sniper, New Republic Armed Forces.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 22:28:58 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: SR-type movies (was: A Li'l Ole Question)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> From: Mike (Leszek Karlik) <trrkt@******.COM>
> Date: Tuesday, July 22, 1997 12:01 AM

> Also, while we're talking about Jean Reno, another Shadowrunnish
> movie would be "Nikita" (there's an US remake, called "Nina", but
> it's just a lousy ripoff, and without Jean Reno to boot). I realy
> recommend it (and there's Victor the Cleaner, the prototype for Leon,
> played by - you guessed it - Jean Reno).

The US remake of "La Femme Nikita" was entitled "Point of No Return",
and
it starred Bridget Fonda in the role of Nikita. Unlike most folks, I
actually liked the remake quite a bit and felt it was well done. Also,
there is a series on the USA network on Monday nights at 10pm (Eastern
Standard Time) entitled "La Femme Nikita", starring Peta Wilson in the role
of Nikita. The series has Nikita being more geared to the moralistic side
of things, but that poses many interesting situations for her.

"La Femme Nikita" in any of its forms is good viewing for Shadowrun, IMO.

> Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com;
http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike

Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 21:59:50 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Grill <frech@***.COM>
Subject: Re: SR-type movies
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Justin Pinnow wrote:
>
> > From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
> <snip>
> > What movies would everyone recommend for Shadowrun? And what's
> > "Shadowrunny" (ew!) about them?
>

It depends upon the type of game your running...

> STRANGE DAYS is a good precurser to Shadowrun. <snip>
>
> SNEAKERS is based around a corporate infiltration <snip>
>
> BLADE RUNNER ....well, need I say more? <snip>
>
> JOHHNY NUEMONIC (sp?) covers some of the feel for the universe, as well as
> some of the hardware involved (cyberwear). <snip>

Good examples. I'm suprised that no one so far has mentioned "Grosse
Point Blank" :)
I can see it as a good model for a character trying to woo someone who
doesn't know the character is a shadowrunner. (And yes, my GM did this
to me before I saw the movie.) :)

Other movies that come to mind: "Aliens", "The Godfather" movies,
"The
Usual Suspects", "Last Man Standing" would be a great premise for a solo
run, "Pulp Fiction", "Reservoir Dogs", "El Mariachi",
"Desperado", and
any other movies which have been mentioned that I'm forgeting would be
good runs, or at least could be adapted for use as a run.

>
> That's all that come to mind at the moment.
>

Same here. :)

> Enjoy :)
>
> > Lady Jestyr
>
> Justin :)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Frech A.K.A. Grill the elfin shaman-Shadowrun-newbie-who-still-
hasn't-been-greeted-by-Bull :)
http://www.realtime.net/~frech/
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 19:44:02 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: (OT) Hello again, after a brief hiatus
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Mike (Leszek Karlik) wrote:
>
> Hmmm...
>
> > And now, for the BOT :]
>
> Hey! I did not get the auto-greet! What's that? Some discrimination,
> or what?!1
>
> <grin>

Damnit Spike...How many times do I have to put in a work order?

;)

Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 23:03:43 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo

> Five, which is what the British Army does today for its 120mm rifled
> tank gun: put a slipping driving band on the sabot. It skids over the
> rifling rather than engaging in it, and so only a very slight spin
> (which helps the sabot to discard cleanly) is imparted to the
> projectile.

*That* was it. I knew I'd heard about something like that. Thank you.

--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 19:48:34 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Organization: Liquid Karma
Subject: Re: SR-type movies (was: A Li'l Ole Question)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Justin Pinnow wrote:
> > Also, while we're talking about Jean Reno, another Shadowrunnish
> > movie would be "Nikita" (there's an US remake, called
"Nina", but
> > it's just a lousy ripoff, and without Jean Reno to boot). I realy
> > recommend it (and there's Victor the Cleaner, the prototype for Leon,
> > played by - you guessed it - Jean Reno).
>
> The US remake of "La Femme Nikita" was entitled "Point of No
Return", and
> it starred Bridget Fonda in the role of Nikita. Unlike most folks, I
> actually liked the remake quite a bit and felt it was well done. Also,
> there is a series on the USA network on Monday nights at 10pm (Eastern
> Standard Time) entitled "La Femme Nikita", starring Peta Wilson in the role
> of Nikita. The series has Nikita being more geared to the moralistic side
> of things, but that poses many interesting situations for her.
>
> "La Femme Nikita" in any of its forms is good viewing for Shadowrun, IMO.

I agree "La Femme Nikita," is great...hmmmm maybe i'll make a "Bob"
contact. Anyway as far as "Point of No Return," it was an amazingly
close remake anf I enjoyed it. I expected it to be much more
"americanized" then it was. Basically I would say that they are close
enough to decide on just whether or not you wanted subtitles...unless of
course you speak french.

Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 03:35:06 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: [Sorta OT] A new game and advice
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970721204754.2da71078@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0

In article <3.0.16.19970721204754.2da71078@*****.com>, Bull
<chaos@*****.COM> rambled on endlessly about [Sorta OT] A new game and
advice

<big snip>
>Anyways, here's the point of this post. What the hell do I do after that?
>It's been far too long since i ran AD&D, and more importantly, I want to
>eventually ween these players into more of a roleplaying atmosphere
>eventually. How would you suggest doing this? What would you do in a
>situation like this (Other than try to convice them to play SR. Maybe
>after the card game comes out I can transfer them from Magic, to SR CCG,
>then to SR RPG, but until them, this is what they want to play, and it's
>either this or play cards again...:)).

If you want to convert them from AD&D to SR, it's a relatively simple
process. I managed to convert three AD&D die hards that had no interest
at all in anything with even a slight SF inclination by telling them
Shadowrun ws AD&D with guns. After a while they cottoned on that it
wasn't. but they were having so much fun AD&D sort of got left by the
wayside never to be touched again.

Otrherwise just tell them you want a break from fantasy and how do they
fancy doing something completely different, but similar. Most people
are willing to try things at least once.


>Anyways, thanks, and feel free to take this private e-mail if the list
>feels this isn;t an appropriate topic...;]


It's not, but then it's you, and you haven't been inapropriate for at
least 8 hours, so...

:)

--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 20:22:18 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Zero-G Combat
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

---"J. Keith Henry" wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-07-18 05:18:13 EDT, schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU
(Court
> Schuett) writes:
>
> > BTW, what is Zero-G fighting? Must have
> > missed that. Is that in the Missions adventures? Is that any
good?
>
> I apologize, as Zero-G and Blind Fighting (the skill) are stuff that
have
> been developed here in response by the characters wanting to
function better
> in every situation.

Possible spoilers for Harlequin (the original) below...

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

S
P
A
C
E

I
S

B
E
I
N
G

P
L
A
C
E
D

OK, not that it may tie into waht you guys are talking about here. But
if you remember, there is a scene on a suborbital in the Harlequin
campaign that deals with a fight during Zero-G and the required tests
to deal with it. If you haven't seen it, you might want to check it
out.

Thought it might be of interest, anyways.

===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/

"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:55:13 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: SR-type movies (was: A Li'l Ole Question)
In-Reply-To: <199707220230.WAA07562@****.provide.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

>
> The US remake of "La Femme Nikita" was entitled "Point of No
Return", and
> it starred Bridget Fonda in the role of Nikita. Unlike most folks, I
> actually liked the remake quite a bit and felt it was well done. Also,

Hmmm... I thought it was called "The Assassin"? That's certainly what
it's titled in Australia.


Lady Jestyr

-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------