From:	"Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject:	Re: [SR3] Things that always annoyed you in SR2....
Date:	Sun, 20 Jul 1997 15:15:16 +0100

In message <ufracv6k0g.fsf@*******.hanse.de>, "Shadowrun ML demon
<shadowrn-ml@*******.hanse.de>" <shadowrn-ml@*******.HANSE.DE> writes
>"Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK> writes:
>> It's nasty, but far from being utterly and totally fatal. WP casualties
>> survive quite nicely today.
>
>Uhm - I find this pretty hard to believe, I have to admit. As far as I
>know having about 40% of your skin burned to third degree is already
>lethal and even hot water can cause third degree burns without any
>problems. So something that is sticky and burns a few hundred degrees
>(what IS the exact temperature, btw.) is causing third degree burns
>within fractions of a second... someone surviving being splashed with
>that stuff (without any special equipment, of course). Maybe if you
>only got a few drops... but whatever has been hit got a third degree
>burn, so if more than 40% of the body has been hit you are dead.

Sure: but look at the size of a WP grenade. It's the size of a soft-
drink can. If you're ten feet from it when it bursts, you're going to
catch a few chunks, not get covered over 40% of your body.

Secondly, the WP has to burn through your clothing and equipment.
Webbing gear and body armour will stop WP burns nicely, as will a
helmet.

Even your fatigues are fire-retardant (or at least British Army combats
are) so small pieces of WP won't turn you into a human torch.

>> Remember, it's not just you: you have team-mates to help you and they,
>> too, can administer treatment,
>
>Yeah - but there is hardly anything you can do once a certain amount
>of skin has been burned... at least not nowadays. I could imagine,
>though, that in the future you'd have tanks with some special liquid
>that could take over the functions of the skin until the body had a
>chance to regenerate.

Again, the problem is getting enough of the skin burned.

>> They'll only suck the flame into the engine compartment, if that. WP
>> isn't effective against any military vehicle tougher than a truck (even
>> Land Rovers can shrug it off)
>
>Uhm. So what happens to the electronics and the rubber & plastic parts
>of the engine when they get exposed to flames that burn at several
>hundret degrees... my experience is that plastic, rubber and
>electronics don't really like this.

The engine doesn't get directly exposed to the flame. Look at some of
the news from Northern Ireland: we've been building Land Rovers to shrug
off petrol bombs for decades. The biggest problem is seeing where you're
going through the flames :)

>> Disagree. The burning damage is more realistic. Remember, unless you're
>> carrying the grenade when it explodes, you're only being hit by a few
>> pieces, not coated head-to-toe.
>
>O.k. - first: We are not talking about the explosion damage, right ?
>The grenade affects an area of 10 meters diameter (considering a loss
>of power niveau of 1/.5m - I wasn't able to find any other statement
>about the area covered by a WP grenade) and things in the center most
>probably get pretty much splashed... otherwise the reach wouldn't be
>as far.

If it's right next to you, you're dead.

If it's ten feet away, you're in terrible pain and out of combat for
some time... but you'll almost certainly survive.

>So I can imagine that people/objects outside the core of the explosion
>have a good chance of survival (although they probably get seriously
>hurt), but in the core of the explosion ? I don't think so. A damage
>code of "L" for burning white phosphorus on your skin is far too
>low.

By standard SR rules, a fragmentation grenade at zero range cannot kill
you...

>Of course I know that you have more knowledge about weapons than I do,
>but if you say people "survive easily" through an attack by white
>phosphorus I'd like to know more about the factors that led to his
>survival.

Basically, the fact that WP is less lethal than is widely supposed.

It _does_ create horrific, incapacitating injuries that scare the hell
out of anyone nearby, and it does present significant challenges for
medical treatment, but Falklands experience (where both sides made some
use of WP weapons) indicated that fatalities were low.

It's easier to treat and recover from burns, than it is from deep
fragmentation wounds.


--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk