| From: | Unknown sender |
|---|---|
| Subject: | None |
| Date: | Unknown time and date |
words:
>You wrote:
>> Actually, having just checked the Grimmy and Bug City with a close read,
>> it would appear that only the Queen and Mother-type spirits have Immunity
>> to Normal Weapons (which makes no sense at all, if you ask me...)
>It might be that, since they are produced in some measure from human hosts,
>that insect spirits are not so purely 'spirits' as the Queen, and so do not
>have the benefit of INW. They are still human enough to hurt the way humans
>hurt. From a game-balance POV, it's also sensible, because otherwise the
bugs
>wouldn't have to hide so much, and would probably be taking over more than
just
>poor old Chicago.
>
Q
U
E
E
N
E
U
P
H
O
R
I
A
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
Actually, in QE, all the trueforms have Immunity to Normal Weapons, and
while i's been a while sicne I read over Bug City, I thought all the True
Forms did...
And someone asked how INW worked, you (IIRC) double the force of the spirit
and that counts as the spirits armor when getting shot and such. In
addition, you use your WIllpower instead of Strength of the weapon when
fighting in HTH... When you're dealing with the average sammy (Srength 8+,
wilppower 3-4), this can be a HUGE difference, when suddenly the force 8
you're fighting is takeing 4M damamge instead of 10M, and has 8 points of
armor, making it's resistance role effectively a 2 (Of course, it would
have been a 2 anyways, but you get the point.)
As a note: Most of this comes from my sketchy memory, and the QE Module,
which is in 1st edition rules, so... Some of the Bug Stuff may have
changed...
Bull-the-offering-up-his-opinion-before-he-goes-to-run-AD&D-Ork-Decker
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 17:11:39 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Paff <mikepaff@***.COM>
Subject: Re: The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma) -Reply
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
> Mike Paff wrote:
> > For a standard heavy pistol with a reasonable
> >sized clip:
> > 1 = Jam
> > 2 = Out of ammo
> > 3-6 = no effect
>
> You realize that this house rule would mean that
> heavy pistols jam about once per clip.
>
Yes, I realize that. I was trying to improve on Bull's suggestion
where rolling a one on a specific die causes something bad to happen
(a 1 in 6 chance). My initial suggestion reduced the likelyhood
significantly (2 in 36) without requiring large amounts of bookkeeping
or dice rolling, i.e. "You just rolled a one on your wild die, now roll
15d6 and let me know the results of each individual die... 15 minutes
later... OK, nothing unusual happened".
Personally, I would prefer that the players and GM keep track of ammo
rather than relying on random chance. For gun jams and other oops, the
revised rules in FOF are not too bad.
Mike Paff
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:47:07 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Toxin Rules
In-Reply-To: <199707221738.LAA24324@******> from "Jonathan Hurley" at Jul
22,
97 01:40:49 pm
Content-Type: text
Jonathan Hurley wrote:
|
| I noticed that people have been bitching about disease rules, but what
| about toxin rules? I have read them backwards, forwards, and upside down,
| and I can still not figure them out.
Okay, going by the BBB and using Fugu-5 as an example. Fred eats a
soyburger laced with Fugu-5. Since the Speed of Fugu-5 is
instantaneous he has to immediately make a Body(3) Test against a
base damage of Deadly. For every two successes he gets he reduces
the damage level by one category.
If Fred blows the role he's squares off in a fight with death. Role
Fred's Body vs a 10. If gets at least one success he stabilizes. If
he doesn't get any successes he'll be dead within a number of minutes
equal to his Body x10. If someone gives him the antidote they make a
Biotech(10) Test (modified by the table on page 115), and if they
fail Fred gets to make a Body(10) Test. If either test results in at
least one success Fred stabilizes. Otherwise see that part about
dying.
If Fred had known the soyburger was laced ahead of time he could have
taken the antidote before taking a bite and gained a number of dice
equal to the rating of the antidote when resisting the Fugu-5.
To recap:
Body Test vs the Power of the toxin when it kicks in (it's speed).
Every two successes reduce the damage by one category.
An antidote taken before the toxin kicks in adds a number of dice to
the resitance test equal to it's rating.
If the result is a Deadly wound the character makes a Body(10) test.
Success results in stabilization. Failure results in taking an
additional box of damage every 10 minutes.
Administration of the antidote to a dying character allows the
administeree to make a Biotech(10) test, modified by the conditions
table on page 115. Success equals stabilization of the dying
character. If the Biotech test fails the character gets to make a
Body(10) test. Success equals stabilization.
Hope that helps :)
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:12:56 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Skye Comstock <bilbo@****.NWLINK.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Flames (sort of)
In-Reply-To: <970721191230_1861345956@*******.mail.aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>I, personally have had enough of SR3 in my E-mail box and would like to
>inform the rest of you people that nothing even coming close to it will be
>accepted.
Be like me, delete all of it. ;) I don't whine about it, I just
trash half the list mail every day because I'm too lazy to read
it all, but just because I don't want to read it doesn't mean
I feel like I have the right to deprave others of doing so...
Remember, I live near you, and I accept payments of $500 to go
to GenCon... Anyone need a hitgeek? :]
-Skye
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 21:45:19 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Physad Enhanced Centering
A friend of mine is wondering: why does a physad have to spend 2 Magic
Points to get Enhanced Centering (from Grimoire 2), when Centering is
part of the metamagic a physad gets when he initiates? He really wants to
know why it is that he has to spend two whole Grades' worth of Magic
points to get _one_ power that can only be used by an initiate...
I've tried explaining it to him (he doesn't seem to get the magnitude of
getting the ability for an entire skill category). If someone else could
please explain this? Mr. Kenson:) ? Someone?
--
-Canthros (troublesome player in tow...)
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 20:23:35 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Physad Enhanced Centering
In-Reply-To: <199707230146.TAA05405@******> from "John E Pederson" at Jul
22,
97 09:45:19 pm
Content-Type: text
John E Pederson wrote:
|
| A friend of mine is wondering: why does a physad have to spend 2 Magic
| Points to get Enhanced Centering (from Grimoire 2), when Centering is
| part of the metamagic a physad gets when he initiates? He really wants to
| know why it is that he has to spend two whole Grades' worth of Magic
| points to get _one_ power that can only be used by an initiate...
Well, from an economics standpoint, if he wants the power he has to
pay for it :) Does he think he should get the power for free?
| I've tried explaining it to him (he doesn't seem to get the magnitude of
| getting the ability for an entire skill category). If someone else could
| please explain this? Mr. Kenson:) ? Someone?
Count the number of skills are in a category for him. Cripes, if
he takes Enhanced Centering: Combat, he has a chance to reduce the
target number for just about every combat test. If he gets his grade
up he can rock. And if he's a PA with knowledge skills he can make
life hell for the GM. And I'm not even going to touch the social
skills.
I thank the god(s) that my players haven't read this power very
closely. Maybe you should just tell him that it's a crappy power and
that he should purchase something else <EMGM>.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 19:22:34 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: question
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---Caun Haskins wrote:
>
> You spoild tho whole fantasy of mine! I thought you were an AI! (JK)
> why did you have to spoil it?
> Do you have any books published? I was reading you web page and
thought
> you needed to be a writer, (was going to mail you as such) the I
found
> out you are! I'd like to get my hands on some stories you wrote
just to
> see how good you realy are!
Please quote some portion of the message you were replying to. Though
a little 2+2 can help someone figure out just who you are referring to
in this message, it make not be the case with others in the future
This is also covered in the FAQ.
Thanx.
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 19:35:12 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: question
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---Lady Jestyr wrote:
>
> > In our sessions there is usually a small time in game time between
> > playing, just write a story of why he's not there ie. captured by
> > sombody, family crisis,whatever. If you know somone is going to be
gone
>
> Often our sessions break off in the middle of adventures - it's a bit
> hard to explain why Fred suddenly just "vanished" before your eyes...
Exactly the same for our group most of the time. Actually, my players
have been pretty good about being "present and accounted for," but
occassionally you have the one who's late, can't make it, or has to
leave early and a there just isn't a viable explanation for the
character wandering off (i.e. - the group is in the woods 50 km from
the border with the Tir border patrol actively hunting them down and
Seth has to bail and head home to get some sleep for work at 5am
tomorrow.)
Thus we have instituted the Rod of Security. A carry over from my AD&D
days, the rod of security is a standard piece of equipment for all
characters. A rod of silver 30cm long and weighing nothing, the rod
can never be lifted or stolen from the PC. It's sole existence is to
transport the character away in a puff of pink astral energy when his
player has left him. This character is then, held in a metaplane of
fluffy clouds and pink cotton candy, away from harm until his player
has returned. Once a reasonable entry point is opened in the
adventure, the PC is then transported back amongst the majority of the
group in the same flux of pink magic.
Corny, I know but it's tradition and it helps from having to explain
alot in the course of the game. :o)
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 22:38:38 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Chargen
On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 01:37:32 -0500 Barbie <barbie@**********.COM> writes:
>Hello,
>I`m trying to make a overhaul of the SRcomp`s pointbased
>chargen. If you have something thats bothers you with these system
>feel free to speak your mind because I will try to make my version
>a better one :-)
>Input is encouraged as alwasy :-)
Expect lots of 'input' from Mc23:)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 22:38:38 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997 20:01:08 -0400 Bull <chaos@*****.COM> writes:
<snip>
>Q
>U
>E
>E
>N
>
>E
>U
>P
>H
>O
>R
>I
>A
>
>S
>P
>O
>I
>L
>E
>R
>S
>
>Actually, in QE, all the trueforms have Immunity to Normal Weapons,
>and
>while i's been a while sicne I read over Bug City, I thought all the
>True
>Forms did...
Nope, at least, not as listed in either Bug City or Grimmy 2.
<rest of message snipped>
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 22:38:38 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
losthalo (under the guise of 'Wendy Wanders':) wrote:
<<It might be that, since they are produced in some measure from human
hosts, that insect spirits are not so purely 'spirits' as the Queen, and
so do not have the benefit of INW. They are still human enough to hurt
the way humans hurt. From a game-balance POV, it's also sensible,
because otherwise the bugs wouldn't have to hide so much, and would
probably be taking over more than just poor old Chicago.>>
Perhaps. Unfortunately, it also doesn't list them as having the power of
manifestation, so, by that reason, they shouldn't be able to manifest,
either:) And, if they have manifestation, they must also have Immunity to
Normal Weapons (SR2, p219). And therein lies the problem, I suppose:)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 21:42:19 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John Dukes <dukes@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Chargen
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:37 AM 7/23/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Hello,
>I`m trying to make a overhaul of the SRcomp`s pointbased
>chargen. If you have something thats bothers you with these system
>feel free to speak your mind because I will try to make my version
>a better one :-)
>Input is encouraged as alwasy :-)
>--
>Barbie
The entire edges/flaws table is completely messed up. I cant think of a
single character I wouldnt pay 3 edge points to give astral perception for
example. The point system can be used to severely abuse the rules. Why
should a samauri with .0001 essence be able to do anything magical?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 22:52:51 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Physad Enhanced Centering
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997 20:23:35 -0600 David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
writes:
>Well, from an economics standpoint, if he wants the power he has to
>pay for it :) Does he think he should get the power for free?
Actually? Yes.
>Count the number of skills are in a category for him. Cripes, if
>he takes Enhanced Centering: Combat, he has a chance to reduce the
>target number for just about every combat test. If he gets his grade
>up he can rock. And if he's a PA with knowledge skills he can make
>life hell for the GM. And I'm not even going to touch the social
>skills.
<munch>
Social skills? What are those?
</munch>
:) If my players had half of the game figured out, I'd be in serious
trouble. As it is, they still haven't got combat straight:) Well, most of
them haven't, anyway (I'll let my player figure out what I meant by
_that_ :)
>I thank the god(s) that my players haven't read this power very
>closely. Maybe you should just tell him that it's a crappy power and
>that he should purchase something else <EMGM>.
Actually, I'm not too worried, as he's inquiring as to a NPC/former PC
he's working out stats for. He got started off on this when the 'Physads
got shafted' thread started last. I'd tell him just to ignore it, but he
thinks it's 'stupid' that a physad's centering only counts for Physical
skills, as-is, and want's me to set up a house rule to alleviate the
perceived problem. And he ought to be reading most of this:)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 20:01:21 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---Gurth wrote:
>
> Now we're talking about it, what woul VITAS do anyway? SRII gives a
> VITAS-3 a damage of 6D and says sufferers get chills, fever, and
vomiting
> until damage gets reduced to Light, but that's it. Doesn't sound
like a
> disease that wiped out millions of people to me...
Now keep in mind according to BBB, page 186:
"The speed factor determines how soon after exposure the victim will
have to resist damage. For toxins, this is usually immediately, but
the time period can be hours or even days for diseases. The victim
must use a Body Test to resist again if that time period elapses again
and he is still in contact with the toxin, or still infected by the
disease."
Now with Vitas-3 having a speed of 12 hours, that would mean taking a
6D every 12 hours (plus the other side effects and symptoms), until
medical attention or magic can cure you. For the average pedestrian
person having Body of 3, that could very easily wipe out a few million
people in an epidemic. Wouldn't you think?
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 23:02:08 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Chargen
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997 21:42:19 -0500 John Dukes <dukes@*******.NET> writes:
<snippers>
<<The entire edges/flaws table is completely messed up. I cant think of a
single character I wouldnt pay 3 edge points to give astral perception
for example.>>
I can. Almost any adept (physads especially). This is remedied by the
rules Mr. Kenson posted to us a while back, but I think it should be
possible for most (but not all, physads should not be allowed access to
things like Astral Sight:) characters should have access to them (this is
related to my own Combo'd adepts stuff:)
<<The point system can be used to severely abuse the rules. Why should a
samauri with .0001 essence be able to do anything magical?>>
He shouldn't, and there's an easy fix: when Magic equals 0 (or, at the
least, when Essence is less than 1), the character _cannot_ use magic.
Period. It's simple, and it works. Such a character can no longer channel
enough energy with their astral template (see explanation in
Cybertechnology) to create any magical effect, hence the Magic Rating of
0. I'd be willing to allow a character with a Magic Rating of 0 to use
magic, but only so long as their Essence is at least equal to 1.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 20:30:31 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---Gurth wrote:
>
>
> And that allergy to everything manifests itself as a fever, feeling
chilly
> (which happens a lot anyway when you've got a fever), and throwing
up a
> lot? Plus, of course, the 6D damage you take just once, 12 hours
after
> infection. Sounds like a bit of a weak disease to me, especially if
it's
> the third edition...
Again, see my other post, Gurth. BBB, page 186 says you resist the
6Ddamage every 12 hours while you're infected with the disease. This
makes Vitas-3 much more deadly and capable of living up to it's name.
In my game, I have them make the 6D test every 12 hours, until they've
resisted all of the damage on a single test (which will usually
require medical assistance or the aid of a Cure Disease spell).
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 23:37:42 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
> Date: Tuesday, July 22, 1997 10:38 PM
>
> losthalo (under the guise of 'Wendy Wanders':) wrote:
>
> <<It might be that, since they are produced in some measure from human
> hosts, that insect spirits are not so purely 'spirits' as the Queen, and
> so do not have the benefit of INW. They are still human enough to hurt
> the way humans hurt. From a game-balance POV, it's also sensible,
> because otherwise the bugs wouldn't have to hide so much, and would
> probably be taking over more than just poor old Chicago.>>
> Perhaps. Unfortunately, it also doesn't list them as having the power of
> manifestation, so, by that reason, they shouldn't be able to manifest,
> either:) And, if they have manifestation, they must also have Immunity to
> Normal Weapons (SR2, p219). And therein lies the problem, I suppose:)
This is why I believe that all true forms should have the powers of
Manifestation and Immunity to Normal Weapons. Also, I believe queens are
summoned into human hosts just like all other bug spirits...thus, by the
above reasoning, they wouldn't have INW either...just plain stupid. ;)
>
> --
> -Canthros
> I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
> and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
> --Francis Bacon
> http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 20:41:03 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---Gurth wrote:
>
> 0 hours: infection
> 0-12 hours: you feel fine
> 12 hours: you take 6D damage, most likely result: instant death
> 13 hours-60 days (assuming you survived): fever, chills, vomiting
Actually, page 186 of the BBB says that if the time listed for speed
factor elapses again, the victim must make another Body Test. So it
be more like:
0 hours: infection
0-11 hours: you feel fine
12 hours: you take 6D damage, most likely result: death.
13 hours-23 hours (assuming you survived): fever, chills, vomiting
24 hours: you take 6D damage, most likely result: death
25 hours-35 hours (assuming you survived): fever, chills, vomiting
36 hours: you take 6D damage, most likely result: death
37 hours-47 hours (assuming you survived): fever, chills, vomiting
48 hours: you take 6D damage, most likely result: death
and so on...
> It would make much more sense to have the disease give a small amount
> of damage (Light or maybe Moderate) every couple of days, the Power
Level
> getting higher for every new resistance test against it. That way the
> virus has a time to spread and infect other people.
A 6D test every 12 hours (which is how BBB explains it) will pretty
much do just that. Until it kills the victim, that is. :o)
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 23:44:50 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Mana Storms?
In a message dated 97-07-21 06:38:40 EDT, u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK (Spike)
writes:
>
> Have you read "Choose your enemies carefully"?
> Verner sees a few Mana storms in Aussieland when he's after the really
> powerfull focus in Airs(sp?) Rock.....
>
> We'll probably have to wait for an Aussie sourcebook before they get
> explained though.....
>
> I Want to know how they work and what they do as well....
>
Actually, you don't.
In the Tir Na nOg sourcebook, there is some basic guidelines. I actually
talked to Tom Dowd on this one once way back when (say 4 years ago), and his
suggestion was that the average storm probably doesn't effect the background
count for more than 3 points, give or take. The rating of the storm (a
number from 1-?) is also the duration that storm -might- last in hours,
though most are over fairly quickly. It's effects would primarily exist in
the astral, effecting said beings (ever heard of Etheric Drift? It is a
nasty concept) but not effecting the -mundane- world very much.
On the flipside, people might have strange levels of personal experiences at
this time period. Extremely vivid dreams, "out of body experiences", and
massive hallucinations (similar to the Illusion and/or Glamour powers). The
Outback and Tir(land) have the most violent and/or recorded instance of such
storms. But they occur everywhere and potentially at any time.
Ever wondered how a "quick bridge" from the Darkside (read as "ED")
could
happen allowing for the random chance? Here it is.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 23:53:14 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Flames (sort of)
In a message dated 97-07-22 01:46:05 EDT, OABBrother@***.COM (Walker of
Shadows) writes:
>
> I, personally have had enough of SR3 in my E-mail box and would like to
> inform the rest of you people that nothing even coming close to it will be
> accepted.
>
>
Well, I suppose that means that "WoS" won't get this, and may haps have
"kill
filed" the topic...so, I'll just add in response...
(Bill-the-Cat "thwip")
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 00:08:34 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Mana Storms?
In a message dated 97-07-22 03:26:58 EDT, bluewizard@*****.COM (Steven A.
Tinner) writes:
>
> Aren't they calling that weird astral hole over the Big D's death site a
> manastorm as well?
>
>
Actually, I'd have to say it's more like a Mana "sinkhole" than an actual
"storm".
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 23:15:15 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma; and fencing
In-Reply-To: <qU$oYAAkSO1zEw5L@********.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Paul J. Adam wrote:
>
> Reminds me of when I used to fence. The first time I took on the
> instructor, and typically I lost the point on almost every lunge: he'd
> parry and riposte and get me. So, I always "lost on my action".
>
> If you're good, the enemy attacking gives you an opening to attack into.
You must have fenced epee. In foil and sabre you must defend, (no sneaky
counter attacks although a good stop hit in time is always a crowd pleaser.)
regards
Bill
USFA member since 1987 (damn I'm old)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 00:28:32 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
On Tuesday, July 22, 1997 16:35, Justin Pinnow[SMTP:vanyel@*******.NET]
wrote:
> > From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
> > Date: Tuesday, July 22, 1997 1:39 PM
>
> > As my players have learned, an assault rifle in FA mode tends to put
bugs
> > down crunchy. (course, at 6-9 rounds of ammo per bug, they'd better be
> > carrying a few extra clips, and I penalize firearm use in close
combat.)
> > Bugs *don't* have immunity to normal weapons as printed.
>
> What source are you using for that last comment? Everything I have ever
> read states that bugs have immunity to normal weapons. That makes a HUGE
> difference in their power level.
Grimoire pp103-107
None of the true form spirits have Immunity to Normal Weapons listed under
powers, except for the queens. Most of them have some sort of (critter
power) armor(the number after the slash under Body,) but none of them have
ItNW.
I was shocked as well.
Not that ItNW will help against an attack of 13-15 power level....
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 00:34:48 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Toxin Rules
On Tuesday, July 22, 1997 20:47, David Buehrer[SMTP:dbuehrer@****.ORG] wrote:
> Jonathan Hurley wrote:
> |
> | I noticed that people have been bitching about disease rules, but what
> | about toxin rules? I have read them backwards, forwards, and upside down,
> | and I can still not figure them out.
>
> Okay, going by the BBB and using Fugu-5 as an example. Fred eats a
> soyburger laced with Fugu-5. Since the Speed of Fugu-5 is
> instantaneous he has to immediately make a Body(3) Test against a
> base damage of Deadly. For every two successes he gets he reduces
> the damage level by one category.
>
> If Fred blows the role he's squares off in a fight with death. Role
> Fred's Body vs a 10. If gets at least one success he stabilizes. If
> he doesn't get any successes he'll be dead within a number of minutes
> equal to his Body x10. If someone gives him the antidote they make a
> Biotech(10) Test (modified by the table on page 115), and if they
> fail Fred gets to make a Body(10) Test. If either test results in at
> least one success Fred stabilizes. Otherwise see that part about
> dying.
So what happens if he gets two successes against the toxin? Is he still "in
contact" with it on the next round?
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 21:55:54 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Skye Comstock <bilbo@****.NWLINK.COM>
Subject: Re: Chargen
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970722213902.223fa2f2@********.linknet.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>The entire edges/flaws table is completely messed up. I cant think of a
>single character I wouldnt pay 3 edge points to give astral perception for
>example. The point system can be used to severely abuse the rules. Why
>should a samauri with .0001 essence be able to do anything magical?
Do you not take into account the character himself? Personally, when
I make a character with the Points system, I have better things to
do than skimp on points, and no, I usually don't even take flaws...
If your character has some reason/talent for looking into the Astral,
then consult your GM and get it, if not, why give it to him? Other
than being a munchkin?
-Skye
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 01:08:34 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Spirits and Attack Power
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Okay, I have been searching through the BBB, the Grimoire 2nd ed., and
Awakenings, and am still having some difficulty determining the Attack
powers/abilities of Nature spirits, Elementals, and Insect spirits.
According to the table on page 144 of the BBB, the Air Elemental doesn't
have an attack power, although the three other elemental forms do (and
these vary in force and in type of damage dealt).
The Unarmed Combat skill for a Water elemental is equal to its force, not
its reaction. This is different from the other three elemental types. Is
this correct?
Assuming that Nature Spirits should have the attack power, what should
their damage code be? Should there be different damage codes and damage
types for different nature spirits? What should their effective Unarmed
Combat skill be (equal to reaction, force, 2 x reaction, etc.)?
Some insect spirit workers don't have Unarmed Combat attacks. Is this
accurate?
What is the Unarmed Combat skill rating of an insect spirit? I have seen
it stated that it should be Reaction x 2, but where does this ruling come
from? I can't find that anywhere, and don't know of any other spirits with
this high of an attack skill.
Immunity to normal weapons:
This power seems to be listed differently in different areas. I could use
some help clarifying exactly which version of this power is accurate, of it
different versions apply to different spirits and critters.
I am inclined to take the description of this power on page 142 of the BBB
as the accurate description and apply it to all beings with this power.
However, the version of this power mentioned on page 218 of the BBB
includes a blurb about elemental attacks and armor that is not covered on
the earlier version of the power (the one on page 142). Should this be
included in the description of this power as standard?
I am so confused! This is definately one area I suggest be clarified and
perhaps streamlined in SR3. :)
Thanks for your enlightenment. I think I will go take some asprin now.
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 00:18:33 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Chargen
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:42 PM 7/22/97 -0500, John wrote:
>The entire edges/flaws table is completely messed up. I cant think of a
>single character I wouldnt pay 3 edge points to give astral perception for
>example.
Considering that you have to be magically active to take any magical talent
edge, there's quite a few characters out there who simply cannot take the
Astral Sight edge. I agree, though. It should cost like 5 points.
> The point system can be used to severely abuse the rules. Why
>should a samauri with .0001 essence be able to do anything magical?
He can't. As is also mentioned under "Magical Talents" you must have a
point of magic. Since a samurai with 0.0001 (or even 0.0) essence would
have no magic rating, he'd have no access to magical talents. He'd also
have to had bought magic at chargen or he couldn't get it anyway.
Lots of people have overlooked huge areas of the point-based system, have
deigned not to even try it, and voice loudly their opinion that it is
overpowered and leads to rule abuse. Characters built under the point
system end up LESS powerful than those built under the priority system. I
know, I've worked through the system. FASA knows, they make this
acknowledgement in the section on the point-based system.
Work through the system before you form your opinions on it...
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 23:22:33 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma) -Reply
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Gurth wrote:
> Mike Elkins said on 9:14/22 Jul 97...
>
> > > For a standard heavy pistol with a reasonable
> > >sized clip:
> > > 1 = Jam
> > > 2 = Out of ammo
> > > 3-6 = no effect
> >
> > You realize that this house rule would mean that
> > heavy pistols jam about once per clip.
>
> That's always a problem with rolling an extra die for these things.
> Making
> it a D20 or D30 would be best I think, since the chance of a jam or
> being
> out of ammo isn't all that big then. A D6 is just plain silly IMO,
> because
> with the table above something will come up once every 3 shots...
>
OK clear this up for me first you fole a d6, 1/6 chance of something
Bad, right. then you roll it again and have a 2/6 chance of something
Bad happening (jam/NoAmo) by my math this isn't happening every 3
shots, It looks like you forgot that you first have to roll a 1 on the
Wild Die. I could be totaly wrong here, but I think it's more like 2/36
chance of a problem with your gun. not 1/3.
Caun :}
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 01:32:24 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
> Date: Wednesday, July 23, 1997 12:28 AM
>
> On Tuesday, July 22, 1997 16:35, Justin Pinnow[SMTP:vanyel@*******.NET]
> wrote:
> > What source are you using for that last comment? Everything I have
ever
> > read states that bugs have immunity to normal weapons. That makes a
HUGE
> > difference in their power level.
> Grimoire pp103-107
> None of the true form spirits have Immunity to Normal Weapons listed
under
> powers, except for the queens. Most of them have some sort of (critter
> power) armor(the number after the slash under Body,) but none of them
have
> ItNW.
> I was shocked as well.
Well, I believe that must be in error. True forms, IMO should have INW.
It's not canon, but Burning Bright certainly states that true forms have
said power, but flesh forms do not. I am inclined to believe that is the
intent.
> Not that ItNW will help against an attack of 13-15 power level....
Actually, it will help quite a bit. If you are fighting a force 5 true
form, that would reduce the power level to 3-5. Apply standard armor to
that and voila...almost no power left, if anything. Whatever is left will
be exceedinly easy to shake off. Big difference.
> --
> Quicksilver rides again
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 00:28:35 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma; and fencing
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> You must have fenced epee. In foil and sabre you must defend, (no sneaky
> counter attacks although a good stop hit in time is always a crowd pleaser.)
>
Foil and Sabre both have Right of way, correct? so if you parry
adiquitly and have a quick repost you get the touch. BTW what crowd?
all fencing torneys i've been to there realy wasn't many spectators.
d;^p
Caun :}
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 23:51:00 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---John E Pederson wrote:
>
> Actually, having just checked the Grimmy and Bug City with a close
read,
> it would appear that only the Queen and Mother-type spirits have
Immunity
> to Normal Weapons (which makes no sense at all, if you ask me...)
Actually what it's implying IMHO is that Queens/Mothers have the
immunity to normal weapons per a Free Spirit's power. In other words,
immunity to all mundane weaponry (swords, clubs, guns, bows, etc.)
Whereas the other true forms only getting INW against ranged combat,
as is normal with the manifestation power.
Make sense?
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:00:08 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970722200136.1fdfa042@*****.com>
> When you're dealing with the average sammy (Srength 8+,
> willpower 3-4),
Why would a sammy have a willpower that low? He'd be wiped out by any
mage in fractions of a second... A willpower of 6 is standard for all
the sammies in my team as well as for all the sammies I ever thought
of as npc's... A samurai has to be able to fight in the front line,
and has to take the risk of catching bullets as well as mana
spells...
> this can be a HUGE difference, when suddenly the force 8
> you're fighting is takeing 4M damamge instead of 10M, and has 8 points of
> armor, making it's resistance role effectively a 2 (Of course, it would
> have been a 2 anyways, but you get the point.)
Isn't the ItNW supposed to give hardened armor? so the attack would
not harm the spirit anyway.
> Bull
ss
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:04:26 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970723011539.007c0100@****.org.au>
> The clock counts down to 13. Now B, who lost initiative, goes on 13 and
> joy-oh-joy has his combat pool refreshed. He attacks A with all of his
> refreshed combat pool dice. A only has combat pool dice, if any, he did not
> use on 15. Needless to say, A is screwed. This only happens on the first
> turn of melee combat.
Why would the combat pool be refreshed? It is refreshed at the
beginning of a new combat turn... and that woud be BEFORE anyone of
the two combatants acts... If you let the two refresh their combat
pools at different times, well, the outcome is what you described...
The one with the lower initiative (which should be a drawback)
effectively doubles his pool for the turn. Doesn't make sense, does
it?
> Lesson: if you win initiative on the first turn of melee combat, hold your
> action until the same phase as your opponent.
> Chris
ss
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:11:14 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <199707211707.LAA24273@******>
> Have you ever been in a real fight (one where either or both sides
> now how to fight)? It is over that quickly.
Well, I never had to fight for my life, but yes, I have been in a
couple of fights up to now...
And I disagree totally. Sure, A fight COULD be over that soon, I one
of the two scores a lucky hit, or gets to hold his opponent in a
position where he can't escape, but chances are, especially if both
use rather strike and kick techniques than grabs and chokes, that the
fight will last about half a minute at last. Just wach boxing...
They fight for several minutes... even in Judo, the fight lasts
longer than just a few seconds.
> -David
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:18:54 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
In-Reply-To: <19970722.165614.20383.0.lobo1@****.com>
>Okay, for the sake of discussion: Ant Spirit Soldier, True Form,
>Force
> Four. Said critter has a Reaction of _18_ on the physical plane, and its
> skill in Combat is the same as its Reaction. That's 18!
Hmmm.... The +10 to reaction is only for calculating initiative... To
determine the skill rating, you should only use twice the force as
reaction... (IMHO, but makes sense, doesn't it?)
> So you have a guy with (again, for discussion's sake) an AK-97 with,
> we'll say, explosive ammo. So, he's doing 9M per round. Let's say he
> fires 9 rounds at the bug (damage: 18D, by the book). For discussion's
> sake, let's say he hits. All right, 4 points of armor, plus 8 points from
> Immunity to Normal Weapons (unless you also assume they cannot manifest:)
> makes that 6D Ant-boy now has 9 dice (Body plus Threat rating) to resist.
> He'll take damage, but he should survive, I would think:)
How would he survive? If the attacking character has 1 success, the
average 1,5 successes the Spirit is likely to score will stage the
damage level to...... D. If the attacking character has more
successes than 1, the spirit is toast...
> -Canthros
ss
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:23:07 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <01BC95D6.E1BAFFC0@********.u96.stevens-tech.edu>
Wow... Thanks for the answers, anyone... What have I done to cause
that amount of feedback? I wrote the question would not be that
important...
Thanx ;)
ss
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 01:32:50 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: question
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Simon T. Sailer wrote:
> Wow... Thanks for the answers, anyone... What have I done to cause
> that amount of feedback? I wrote the question would not be that
> important...
>
> Thanx ;)
>
> ss
well you didn't think we would let you off with just one opinion did
you? we all must get in on the action!
your welcome
Caun :}
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:35:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
In-Reply-To: <19970723065100.6529.rocketmail@*****.rocketmail.com>
> Actually what it's implying IMHO is that Queens/Mothers have the
> immunity to normal weapons per a Free Spirit's power. In other words,
> immunity to all mundane weaponry (swords, clubs, guns, bows, etc.)
>
> Whereas the other true forms only getting INW against ranged combat,
> as is normal with the manifestation power.
>
> Make sense?
No. ;) (yes, me again...)
> Loki
IMHO, attacks with melee weapons against any kind of spirit except
flesh forms of insect spirits should be resolved by
rolling willpower instead of uac, if the attacker is no
physad with killing hands. And all spirits in manifest form
should have ITNW, which gives them twice their force as hardened
armor against ranged attacks only.
(We could restart the discussion about how hardened armor works, now
that I've mentioned it..)
I don't think there are actually two forms of the ITNW power... One
for the queens and one for the rest.
ss
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 02:37:20 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <261D9B01E47@********.uibk.ac.at>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 09:11 7/23/97 +0100, you wrote:
>> Have you ever been in a real fight (one where either or both sides
>> now how to fight)? It is over that quickly.
>
>Well, I never had to fight for my life, but yes, I have been in a
>couple of fights up to now...
>And I disagree totally. Sure, A fight COULD be over that soon, I one
>of the two scores a lucky hit, or gets to hold his opponent in a
>position where he can't escape, but chances are, especially if both
>use rather strike and kick techniques than grabs and chokes, that the
>fight will last about half a minute at last. Just wach boxing...
>They fight for several minutes... even in Judo, the fight lasts
>longer than just a few seconds.
Boxing = Fighting? Not in my opinion..
Its punching, and every real fight I've seen and been in has included more
than punching. Knee's, elbows, grappling, are all common.
Grab a guy quickly and knee him in the head. I've seen several fights end
after a few seconds with that, or even a simple punch to the nose.
Two guys with rules and gloves isn't even close to real fighting, as far as
I'm concerned.
-Adam
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
GC3.1 GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 02:47:49 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
In-Reply-To: <261AB3A370B@********.uibk.ac.at>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:00 7/23/97 +0100, you wrote:
>> When you're dealing with the average sammy (Srength 8+,
>> willpower 3-4),
>
>Why would a sammy have a willpower that low? He'd be wiped out by any
>mage in fractions of a second... A willpower of 6 is standard for all
>the sammies in my team as well as for all the sammies I ever thought
>of as npc's...
In your game.
We've had this discussion before, but I feel compelled to point out that 6
is the maximum willpower for 3 races, and the other two races have a
maximum of 5 and 7.
Therefore... a willpower of 6 would not be 'standard', but closer to
'exceptional', or 'HolyShit!'
And don't forget, in that 'fraction of a second', the sammy likely acts at
least once before the mage does.
-Adam
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
GC3.1 GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 05:12:23 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 09:00 AM 7/23/97 +0100, Simon T. Sailer wrote these timeless words:
>> When you're dealing with the average sammy (Srength 8+,
>> willpower 3-4),
>
>Why would a sammy have a willpower that low? He'd be wiped out by any
>mage in fractions of a second... A willpower of 6 is standard for all
>the sammies in my team as well as for all the sammies I ever thought
>of as npc's... A samurai has to be able to fight in the front line,
>and has to take the risk of catching bullets as well as mana
>spells...
>
Yeah, but A) you're number crunching, which isn;t always a good things,
and B) If a Sammy DOESN'T put most of his Attribute points into Body,
Quickenss and Intelligence, he's lunch meat in a pgysical fight.
Sammies are not designed to take out mages, they're designed to deal with
mudnae threats...
The teams Wizard is there to deal with magical threats...
Rarely will you find a Sammy with a starting WP of more than 3, if that.
It's not really part of the character type.
Of course, this isn't true for EVERY sammy, but... How many 6's can you
have in a character, unless you're talking a high level character, in which
case it's a whole different ballgame anyways, and he should be fighting
something bigger than a force 4 bug spirit :]
>> this can be a HUGE difference, when suddenly the force 8
>> you're fighting is takeing 4M damamge instead of 10M, and has 8 points of
>> armor, making it's resistance role effectively a 2 (Of course, it would
>> have been a 2 anyways, but you get the point.)
>
>Isn't the ItNW supposed to give hardened armor? so the attack would
>not harm the spirit anyway.
>
<shrug>
Got me... I converted this from 1st edition, and in 1st ed. armor gave
automatic resistance results, rather than reducing the TN, so no clue.
There was no (IIRC) hardend armor in 1st ed.
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 18:48:38 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Discworld novels
In-Reply-To: <199707221903.MAA02829@****.parc.xerox.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:03 22/07/97 PDT, Benjamin wrote:
>>PS There's also a Discworld RPG where you can have interesting skills such
>>as Grand Entrance or Use As Weapon (allowing you to use any convenient
>>object at hand as an effective weapon e.g. chair, table leg, two short
>>dwarves..)
>
>Where? Wher? wherewhjerewhwer?
>
I'm sorry but I don't know where you can get it. I saw a review and a
sample module in a British role playing magazine I picked up at a con a
couple of years ago.
Chris
_______________________________________________________________
Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 19:07:21 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <261BD860255@********.uibk.ac.at>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:04 23/07/97 +0100, Simon T. Sailer wrote:
>Why would the combat pool be refreshed? It is refreshed at the
>beginning of a new combat turn... and that woud be BEFORE anyone of
>the two combatants acts... If you let the two refresh their combat
>pools at different times, well, the outcome is what you described...
>The one with the lower initiative (which should be a drawback)
>effectively doubles his pool for the turn. Doesn't make sense, does
>it?
Ummm, because that's the way the BBB describes it. On pg 84:
"Dice Pools initially become available for use at full values as the first
step of the first Combat Turn of any encounter. Characters can then draw
from them, as appropriate for the type of pool, during the Combat Turn.
Once dice are drawn from the pool, those dice are no longer available for
use until the pool refreshes at the beginning of the character's next action."
So the combat pool refreshes on character's actions not at the start of
each turn. If a character has multiple actions in a turn then that
character has multiple combat pool refreshes that turn. Yes, it doesn't
make sense that the initiative winner is disadvantaged and we have a house
rule for it, but if discussing the base rules that's the situation you get.
Chris
_______________________________________________________________
Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 05:44:49 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: [Sorta OT again] My AD&D Game and Thanks
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hoi again all...
Thanks to everyone who replied to me. There were a lot of you, and if I
haven't replied personally yet, I still might, and if I don;t, thanks! i
got a lot of ideas, and some good advice.
One thing that really shocked me was that I got so many replies from
listmembers who chuckled and said they "Secretly Still Liked AD&D, but Were
Afraid To Admit It" (Heh, sounds lik a book title in the making, eh?). I
know AD&D has gotten a bad rep in the last few years, but really... It
seems like an Orc in a Humanis Policlub meeting. he's under a table, and
afraid to come out where the 'Clubbers might see him...:]
Is AD&D really so bad?
Now, before anyone goes off on me about this, let me say a few things...
A) They have handled somethings VERY badly (Namely their whole copyright
and the internet stuff)
B) They have a bad tendancy to "overdo it", like pump out 40+ Dragonlance
novels about the same 8 Characters, when they were old after the first 20.
C) tehy're money grubbing bastards.
However, remember this. Most of us are in this hobby of gaming because of
D&D. I started with basic D&D when I was 10, GMing for my 9 year old
cousin and my 7 year old brother (And occasionally my Mom when she wasn't
too busy). Sure, adventures then were nothing but enormous trap and
monster filled dungeons, and I used SOOOO much graph papaer drawing maze
after maze, but it was terrific fun.
How many of you have, with whatever game you're playing now, be it AD&D,
SR, or even Vampire just gone back to the old days and had a good old
fashioned Dungeon romp? Where you stopped taking yourself and your
character and your game so seriously, and just enjoyed the thrill of
gnoshing heads in true powergaming munchkinous fashion?
YOu can do this in any game, and quite easily.
For SR, simply do a bug hunt. Put the characters in a vast underground
Hive, and let the lead and manabolts fly.
For Vampire, well... No clue how you would do it there. Seems most WW
players around here are munchkinny enough, and too "angst" (Copyright White
Wolf) ridden to have fun... but i'm sure tehre's a way... (BTW: For
those of you who are rabid WW players, I'm teasing. I have an
overabundance of dorks in black around here who seem to think suicide,
being a vampire, and drinking blood is cool... So I get a little
sarrcastic about the game...:))
Try it some night, and a one shot... you'll enjoy it...
Anyways, back to the subject at hand...:]
I spent most of the night dealing with char gen. I wanted my guys to be
able to create their own characters from the ground up, because you really
get more of a sense of "realness" in a char you made, rather than in a
pregenerated one... However, I left their backgrounds and stuff fairly
vague for now... They don;t know enough about the world to make BG's, and
it leaves me room to manipulate them...:]
Plus, I forgot how long it can take when you have to explain things like
what "Constitution" and "Charisma" mean...:] And what is a d4 and
how do
you read the bloody thing?? :] (One of the funniest things was when I
dumped my dice on the table and said ok, grab 4 d6's to start, and one of
the guys said: "Sure, no problem. Ummmm... What's a d6?" :]:]
I gave them a little bit of background on their hometown (Shadowdale), and
did a little roleplaying as they were hired by the Captain of the Guard to
scout some caves a few miles off that it's umored some goblins or something
have moved into.
After that, i led them into Keep On The Borderlands, and they went a
dungeon crawling...;] They had a blast fighting monsters and getting
treasure, and one of them even got a +1 dagger tonight. he thought that
getting a magic dagger was the coolest thing...
It was really refreshing having a true party of "beginners", and brought
back a lot of fun memories of reading and trying to figure out the old
basic D&D books, and watching them get so fired up over the littlest things
was truly fun.
We need more eager, innocent newbies playing games today. Those of us who
have been around a while have gotten too old and cynical for our own good.
We've gotten into fighting over rules, and numbers, and namecalling
(especially on this list lately) and it seems that most of us have lost the
reason that we started playing these games in the first place. To have
fun, and to be transported into a world that was much cooler, and more fun
than this one.
It's funny... I dreaded going into this. I was afraid of getting
munchkins in my game, and of not having enough roleplaying, and enough
seriousness to have fun. Now, I'm glad I agreed to run for these guys.
It's like being a kid all over again, and maybe a little munchkin isn;t
such a bad thing, in moderate doses, and in the right game...:]
Bull-the-reminiscing-Ork-Decker
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 05:08:02 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John Dukes <dukes@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Chargen
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>The entire edges/flaws table is completely messed up. I cant think of a
>>single character I wouldnt pay 3 edge points to give astral perception for
>>example.
>
>Considering that you have to be magically active to take any magical talent
>edge, there's quite a few characters out there who simply cannot take the
>Astral Sight edge. I agree, though. It should cost like 5 points.
>
>> The point system can be used to severely abuse the rules. Why
>>should a samauri with .0001 essence be able to do anything magical?
>
>He can't. As is also mentioned under "Magical Talents" you must have a
>point of magic. Since a samurai with 0.0001 (or even 0.0) essence would
>have no magic rating, he'd have no access to magical talents. He'd also
>have to had bought magic at chargen or he couldn't get it anyway.
>
>Lots of people have overlooked huge areas of the point-based system, have
>deigned not to even try it, and voice loudly their opinion that it is
>overpowered and leads to rule abuse. Characters built under the point
>system end up LESS powerful than those built under the priority system. I
>know, I've worked through the system. FASA knows, they make this
>acknowledgement in the section on the point-based system.
>
>Work through the system before you form your opinions on it...
Nonsense. I have thoroughly read the point system. I just reread the entire
section and couldnt find a single sentence saying anything about base
magical ability being a requirement for taking magical edges. I couldnt find
a "Magical Talents" section anywhere in the Companion. I realize it makes
sense for the low essence samauri to be unable to use magical edges however
the (official) rules do not state that he is unable to take them. Please
feel free to post a page number for the section "Magical Talents" I seem to
have "overlooked" it. The description of astral perception as an Edge is
this: "The character can see into the astral plane through astral
perception. However, characters cannot astrally project or make use of any
magical skills without the appropriate magic priority allocation. Astrally
active characters have all the normal abilities of astral perception and can
learn the aura reading skill (p.96 AWAKENINGS)." I am not advocating that
GMs let .1 essence samauri have magical abilities however there is nothing
in the book that prohibits it. Are you trying to imply the point system cant
be abused? I suggest house rules. As for the other edges/flaws some are
_incredibly_ easy to abuse. Take for example the 1 pt edge Natural Immunity.
Is it balanced if RunnerX is immune to narcoject toxin in exchange for a
mild phobia of hearing a trains whistle? I guess that +1TN modifier while
hearing a train whistly is worth complete immunity to narcoject? At any rate
please show me I'm wrong. I would rather like to read the cleverly hidden
section on balancing magical talents.
John Dukes
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:14:48 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy
In-Reply-To: <v01540b03aff96407ce04@[140.174.162.203]> from "david lowe"
at
Jul 22, 97 09:36:39 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|I just took that and threw in a little magic. My campaigns pre-dates a lot
|of the "official" horror stuff (HB, Atzlan SB, etc.) so I just sort of made
|it work for SR. Minions in my SR game are similar, but different to
|Horrors. Less powerful, but more diabolical than Horrors. They are
|technically and magically more advanced and are basciallly
|trans-dimensional colonizers.
Steps back in amazement....
Errrr..... MORE diabolical than Horrors???
That's not ntirely possible.... Is it?
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 11:39:12 -0700
Reply-To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> A 6D test every 12 hours (which is how BBB explains it) will pretty
> much do just that. Until it kills the victim, that is. :o)
Ahem... 6D *will* kill every mundane on the planet: at best your roll
your three dice and stage it down to Serious, more likely you keel
over. In the early stages of the pandemic, medicine doesn't help - oh,
I'm sweaty; I'll go home from work early and take some Nyquil :)
In the first twelve hours the virus has a chance to outlive its host,
but its not likely to do so after that. Hmm, VITAS is looking more and
more like Ebola. It'd be a great weapon for a really nasty Troll/Dwarf
group to get their hands on....
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 06:20:15 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 02:37 AM 7/23/97 -0600, Adam J wrote these timeless words:
>At 09:11 7/23/97 +0100, you wrote:
>>> Have you ever been in a real fight (one where either or both sides
>>> now how to fight)? It is over that quickly.
>>
>>Well, I never had to fight for my life, but yes, I have been in a
>>couple of fights up to now...
>>And I disagree totally. Sure, A fight COULD be over that soon, I one
>>of the two scores a lucky hit, or gets to hold his opponent in a
>>position where he can't escape, but chances are, especially if both
>>use rather strike and kick techniques than grabs and chokes, that the
>>fight will last about half a minute at last. Just wach boxing...
>>They fight for several minutes... even in Judo, the fight lasts
>>longer than just a few seconds.
>
While I agree several seconds can be far too short, have you ever watched
anyone who is really a skilled fighter go at it? usually it doesn't take
more than a few blows to end a fight.
Also, keep in mind a couple things...
A) Characters in SR tend to get to take several actions in a single round
(3-5 seconds), whereas your nrmal human only gets 1. thus, what takes a
cybered up sammy to do in 5 seconds, it may take a normal human 15-20
second, just to take the same number of actions...
B) Combat is HEAVILY simplified, for speed of play, not for realism.
Combat can already take forever, especially when there's a lot of
participants.
C) One really good blow to the head or genitals will normally end a fight
immediatly, as will a single sword/knife/cyberblade blow.
D) Anyone with more than 2 in Armed/Unarmed combat is considered well
skilled. Anyone with 4 or more is highly skilled, and someone with 6 or
more is a master. Most martial arts/weapons master can end a fight in
seconds, when they need to.
E) Smashing a face against a concrete wall ends the fight in seconds, and
is messy. I know this one from experience. :]:]
F) Mocking the person trying to fight you will also end a fight, usually
with them giving up in disgust or embarassment, but it takles more than a
few seconds...
G) ok, no more... i'm done now... reallly I am...:]
Bull-the-3-second-wonder-just-ask-my-wife-Ork-Decker
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:32:55 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: Physad Enhanced Centering
John E Pederson writes
> A friend of mine is wondering: why does a physad have to spend 2 Magic
> Points to get Enhanced Centering (from Grimoire 2), when Centering is
> part of the metamagic a physad gets when he initiates? He really wants to
> know why it is that he has to spend two whole Grades' worth of Magic
> points to get _one_ power that can only be used by an initiate...
>
> I've tried explaining it to him (he doesn't seem to get the magnitude of
> getting the ability for an entire skill category). If someone else could
> please explain this? Mr. Kenson:) ? Someone?
>
Ok base you get centring for just the two physical skills.
Enhanced centring i believe is bought 'by the skill'. Yes it's
expensive, 2 magic for the ability to lose TN penalties off melee
combat attacks but devastatingly effective. You see you could tkae
something like a Ki shout as centring skill, you have to move up to
opponent +1 TN, oh not any more! and you get to take grade off the
centring TN. Got a lighting (i rarely rate these in melee unless its
very dark nut) or wound penalty, not any more you don't! You can
easily get at least 1 TN penalty away and a skill of 5 and reasonable
grade almost ensures you a reduction of 2. Oh 2 enemies? well
attacking a second target in a complax action is only a +2, centr it
off and you can hit both of them (assuming you are in melee with both
at the same time and split your dice pools, but thats what enhanced
armed combat etc. solves).
Physical adpets through enhanced dice, centring and pain resistance
can become 2 to 3 times better than anyone else can ever hope to
achieve in melee combat. Sure you have to get right up to the target
but for sneaky in your face combat it gets VERY lethal very quickly.
This power is expensive but once you make the investment on a
character with the skill to use it the effects are devastating. It
will negate penalties from multiple enemies, wounds, movement, enemy
reach (if not using the optional rule from the companion) etc leaving
you rolling all that great pile of dice at standard TN's while you
poor opponent picks up penalties and as the base TN is a 4 in melee,
and penalties of 2 would be a 6 (1/3 as many successes) and 4
centring successes is that off again this works over just the range
where the SR dice system gives the most lethality for your investment.
If it was any cheaper everyone would have it, as it stands its good
but expensive enough to keep it to the real melee specialist physical
adepts. (yes some specialise in other things, they are also very good
at stealth at sublty)
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 05:49:32 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Chargen
>Nonsense. I have thoroughly read the point system. I just reread the
entire section and couldnt find a single sentence saying anything about
base magical ability being a requirement for taking magical edges. I
couldnt find a "Magical Talents" section anywhere in the Companion. I
realize it makes sense for the low essence samauri to be unable to use
magical edges however the (official) rules do not state that he is
unable to take them. Please feel free to post a page number for the
section "Magical Talents" I seem to have "overlooked" it.
To paraphrase Pink Floyd" "The rules, it's in the..."
P. 33 of the Companion, uner Magical Talent (of which Astral Sight is
one of several): "Only magically active characters with active Magic
Ratings of 1 or higher can purchase any of the Magical Talent Edges
listed ... above. A character whose Magic Rating drops below 1
automatically loses all Magical Talent Edges."
Someone should post Steve Kenson's take on the Edges/Flaws on the Web
(I know someone's worked some near-hit rules, with variable adept
costs, but I'd like to see the original words).
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:54:22 +0100
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
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Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
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John E Pederson said on 16:57/22 Jul 97...
> Okay, for the sake of discussion: Ant Spirit Soldier, True Form, Force
> Four. Said critter has a Reaction of _18_ on the physical plane, and its
> skill in Combat is the same as its Reaction. That's 18!
Not quite true. They have a Reaction of 8, and get a +10 to initiative;
those are two separate things.
> So you have a guy with (again, for discussion's sake) an AK-97 with,
> we'll say, explosive ammo. So, he's doing 9M per round. Let's say he
> fires 9 rounds at the bug (damage: 18D, by the book). For discussion's
> sake, let's say he hits. All right, 4 points of armor, plus 8 points from
> Immunity to Normal Weapons (unless you also assume they cannot manifest:)
> makes that 6D Ant-boy now has 9 dice (Body plus Threat rating) to resist.
> He'll take damage, but he should survive, I would think:)
I give anyone with higher armor than the attack's Power an extra die for
every 2 points of difference, that makes many insect spirits even more
long-lived against firearms...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Rudely awakened by the telephone.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:54:22 +0100
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
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Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
In-Reply-To: <262420B0D0C@********.uibk.ac.at>
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Simon T. Sailer said on 9:35/23 Jul 97...
> I don't think there are actually two forms of the ITNW power... One
> for the queens and one for the rest.
Yes, there are two forms. One is called ITNW, the other is called
Manifestation. The former works against ALL attacks except magical ones,
the second only against ranged attacks. I suggest you read the
descriptions of the powers again...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Rudely awakened by the telephone.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:54:22 +0100
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma) -Reply
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Caun Haskins said on 23:22/22 Jul 97...
> OK clear this up for me first you fole a d6, 1/6 chance of something
> Bad, right. then you roll it again and have a 2/6 chance of something
> Bad happening (jam/NoAmo) by my math this isn't happening every 3
> shots, It looks like you forgot that you first have to roll a 1 on the
> Wild Die. I could be totaly wrong here, but I think it's more like 2/36
> chance of a problem with your gun. not 1/3.
The way I understood it was that if the wild die ended up a 1, the gun
jammed, and if it ended up a 2, it was out of ammo. I must have missed
something somewhere, so that's why I suggested using a D20 or D30. If done
the way you described it just now, then yeah, the chance is much smaller.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Rudely awakened by the telephone.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:54:22 +0100
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Spirits and Attack Power
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Justin Pinnow said on 1:08/23 Jul 97...
> According to the table on page 144 of the BBB, the Air Elemental doesn't
> have an attack power, although the three other elemental forms do (and
> these vary in force and in type of damage dealt).
Right. The air elemental can attack with its Noxious Breath power, but not
by making a direct attack.
> The Unarmed Combat skill for a Water elemental is equal to its force, not
> its reaction. This is different from the other three elemental types. Is
> this correct?
For some reason, that's right. It doesn't make much sense, but it's what
SRII and PAoE both say.
> Assuming that Nature Spirits should have the attack power, what should
> their damage code be? Should there be different damage codes and damage
> types for different nature spirits? What should their effective Unarmed
> Combat skill be (equal to reaction, force, 2 x reaction, etc.)?
SR1 had Damage Codes for nature spirits that were exactly the same as for
elementals of the related type:
Spirit of Man as fire elemental
Spirit ot Land as earth elemental
Spirit of the Sky as air elemental
Spirit of Water as water elemental*
* this isn't 100% right: water elementals did 6D2 Stun, spirits of water
did 2D6 Stun. That could be a typo, though.
SRII somehow dropped the Damage Codes for nature spirits altogether,
making it appear as if they can't attack at all. As such, there are three
schools of thought:
1) Nature spirits are unable to attack at all; they must use their powers
to affect victims
2) They attack as humans do, using (Strength)M Stun for damage, and their
Reaction as skill (like other critters)
3) They attack like they did in SR1, that is to say using the same attacks
and skills as elementals.
I'd say it's up to the GM to decide which to use in the game.
> Some insect spirit workers don't have Unarmed Combat attacks. Is this
> accurate?
They would probably fall under #1 or #2 above, plus some have Paralyzing
Touch power which can make them useful in combat even if you say they
can't do damage at all.
> What is the Unarmed Combat skill rating of an insect spirit? I have seen
> it stated that it should be Reaction x 2, but where does this ruling come
> from? I can't find that anywhere, and don't know of any other spirits with
> this high of an attack skill.
It's Force x 2, because that's their Reaction in most cases (many queens
have Force x 3). SRII says on page 86 that critters use their Reaction as
their skill to attack, so an insect spirit gets twice its Force in dice.
(Plus its Threat Rating, which is equal to its Force as well.)
> Immunity to normal weapons:
>
> This power seems to be listed differently in different areas. I could use
> some help clarifying exactly which version of this power is accurate, of it
> different versions apply to different spirits and critters.
>
> I am inclined to take the description of this power on page 142 of the BBB
> as the accurate description and apply it to all beings with this power.
> However, the version of this power mentioned on page 218 of the BBB
> includes a blurb about elemental attacks and armor that is not covered on
> the earlier version of the power (the one on page 142). Should this be
> included in the description of this power as standard?
I tend to always go by the latest version of any published power; in this
case that's in Paranormal Animals of Europe, page 133. As I said in
another post, spirits don't get the true ItNW power, they only get a
limited form of it -- only against ranged weapons, and not against melee
attacks. Critters that have ItNW listed as one of their powers (instead
of, or in addition to, Manifestation) get the immunity against _all_
attacks except magical and elemental (water, acid, etc.) ones; against the
latter, the armor is halved.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Rudely awakened by the telephone.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:54:22 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: [SR3] Toxin Rules
In-Reply-To: <01BC96A4.DE89B160@********.u96.stevens-tech.edu>
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Jonathan Hurley said on 13:40/22 Jul 97...
> I noticed that people have been bitching about disease rules, but what
> about toxin rules? I have read them backwards, forwards, and upside down,
> and I can still not figure them out.
The ones on page 186 of SRII? They look simple enough to me: after the
time listed behind Speed has elapsed, you roll a Body test against the
Damage rating of the toxin. If you remain in contact with it for a longer
time, you have to roll the same test again every time the Speed time
passes. For example, you'd have to resist 6S Stun for every turn you're in
contact with Neuro-Stun VIII.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Rudely awakened by the telephone.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:54:22 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
In-Reply-To: <19970723033031.15128.rocketmail@*****.rocketmail.com>
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Loki said on 20:30/22 Jul 97...
> Again, see my other post, Gurth. BBB, page 186 says you resist the
> 6Ddamage every 12 hours while you're infected with the disease. This
> makes Vitas-3 much more deadly and capable of living up to it's name.
You're right, I hadn't noticed that line. That makes it a hell of a lot
more deadly, but still I don't like the way the disease gets handled...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Rudely awakened by the telephone.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:54:22 +0100
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
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Simon T. Sailer said on 9:04/23 Jul 97...
> Why would the combat pool be refreshed? It is refreshed at the
> beginning of a new combat turn... and that woud be BEFORE anyone of
> the two combatants acts...
It's refreshed at the very start of combat, and after that it only
refreshes for a character when that character has an action. IOW: the
first turn, everyone starts with a full pool, but the second turn they
don't (unless they didn't use any CP dice since their last action).
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Rudely awakened by the telephone.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:54:22 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
In-Reply-To: <01BC96FF.5ADEA9A0@********.u96.stevens-tech.edu>
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Jonathan Hurley said on 0:28/23 Jul 97...
> Grimoire pp103-107
>
> None of the true form spirits have Immunity to Normal Weapons listed under
> powers, except for the queens. Most of them have some sort of (critter
> power) armor(the number after the slash under Body,) but none of them have
> ItNW.
>
> I was shocked as well.
>
> Not that ItNW will help against an attack of 13-15 power level....
I think the point around which all this revolves is a misconception that
Manifestation grants Immunity to Normal Weapons power. It doesn't. It
gives a _limited_ form of ItNW, only effective against ranged attacks. The
full ItNW power also covers melee weapons and unarmed attacks, so
attacking an insect spirit queen with a club is even more stupid than
shootin at her with a rifle.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Rudely awakened by the telephone.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:54:28 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Physad Enhanced Centering
In-Reply-To: <19970722.214420.18879.1.lobo1@****.com> from "John E
Pederson"
at Jul 22, 97 09:45:19 pm
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|
|A friend of mine is wondering: why does a physad have to spend 2 Magic
|Points to get Enhanced Centering (from Grimoire 2), when Centering is
|part of the metamagic a physad gets when he initiates? He really wants to
|know why it is that he has to spend two whole Grades' worth of Magic
|points to get _one_ power that can only be used by an initiate...
When mages use centering, they can only use if for a very limited number of
things.
They CAN'T use of for ranged combat with guns, for example....
Phys Ads CAN with Enhanced Centering. (That's WHY it's enhanced)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:54:22 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Physad Enhanced Centering
In-Reply-To: <19970722.214420.18879.1.lobo1@****.com>
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John E Pederson said on 21:45/22 Jul 97...
> A friend of mine is wondering: why does a physad have to spend 2 Magic
> Points to get Enhanced Centering (from Grimoire 2), when Centering is
> part of the metamagic a physad gets when he initiates? He really wants to
> know why it is that he has to spend two whole Grades' worth of Magic
> points to get _one_ power that can only be used by an initiate...
>
> I've tried explaining it to him (he doesn't seem to get the magnitude of
> getting the ability for an entire skill category). If someone else could
> please explain this? Mr. Kenson:) ? Someone?
If he doesn't spend the 2 MP for the power, all he can use it for are
magical skills: Sorcery, Conjuring, that kind of thing. I don't see
physads using those on a regular basis, so in itself the Centering power
is mostly useless for a physad.
But consider this: for 2 MP you can reduce the TN for shooting someone by
taking out the glare penalty caused by the sun reflecting off that car. Or
get more money from Mr. Johnson by effectively removing his distrust of
you. This is a pretty powerful ability to have, and if you really want it
you can think ahead and spend only 4 MP onpowers during character
generation, then initiate and take the Enhanced Centering power
immediately when you gain grade 0.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Rudely awakened by the telephone.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:54:22 +0100
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
In-Reply-To: <01BC96A4.A348EE40@********.u96.stevens-tech.edu>
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Jonathan Hurley said on 13:39/22 Jul 97...
> As my players have learned, an assault rifle in FA mode tends to put bugs
> down crunchy. (course, at 6-9 rounds of ammo per bug, they'd better be
> carrying a few extra clips, and I penalize firearm use in close combat.)
> Bugs *don't* have immunity to normal weapons as printed.
It's a bit strange... The Grimoire doesn't mention that they have
Manifestation power, but technically they should have -- else they can't
pop into the physical plane from the astral and back. Manifestation
automaticaly includes armor against ranged attacks, so I give that to true
form insect spirits.
BTW, nature spirits don't have Manifestation power either, according to
the critter table in SRII.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Rudely awakened by the telephone.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 06:08:46 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John Dukes <dukes@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Chargen
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>
>P. 33 of the Companion, uner Magical Talent (of which Astral Sight is
>one of several): "Only magically active characters with active Magic
>Ratings of 1 or higher can purchase any of the Magical Talent Edges
>listed ... above. A character whose Magic Rating drops below 1
>automatically loses all Magical Talent Edges."
>
Now this IS wierd because I'm looking at pg 33 now and dont see any of this.
There is a chart at top with "spellcasting talent, summoning talent, astral
sight, and poor link". There are 4 sections under "magical edges and
flaws"
that start on pg 32. I see a "bad karma" a "bonus force points"
(continued
to pg 33) a "focused concentration", a "magic resistance", then
"Misellaneous edges and flaws" headind with stuff like cortex bombs and
hunted. Have there been more than 1 version of the companion? I didnt think
there was a SR1 companion or was there? I bought mine in a hobby shop last
month. It says its copyright 1996... I dont know, If it does say the quoted
material above in the official book then I am incorrect in saying that a
sammie can take magic edges. As for the the other edges/flaws they are still
easily abusible but if the eratta above is true then the edges/flaw table is
much less nasty than I thought.
John
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 05:25:59 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: The Wild Die and Ammo (Was Re: the uac dilemma) -Reply
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> Perhaps if a one comes up, reroll the Wild Die, and depending on the situation
> and the number rolled, you get varied results.
>
from Lady Jestyer on Monday 16:20 post.
that's what I was saying about it beeing 2/36 not 1/3.
Caun :}
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:45:36 +0200
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From: Tobias Minich <Tobias.Minich@*******.UNI-TUEBINGEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Discworld novels
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I just don't know what Discworld has to do in a ShadowRun Mailing List,
but I'd be happy if someone would inform me if there's anything new
about that Discworld RPG.
thx,
Belgabor
--
Tobias Minich tobias.minich@*******.uni-tuebingen.de
Der Spruch 'Erst stirbt der Wald, dann stirbt der Mensch'
schreckt nur die Holzhaendler.
Die anderen sagen: 'Besser als umgekehrt' - W.Schneyder
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:36:52 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: Chargen : and the points system
John Dukes writes
> >
> >P. 33 of the Companion, uner Magical Talent (of which Astral Sight is
> >one of several): "Only magically active characters with active Magic
> >Ratings of 1 or higher can purchase any of the Magical Talent Edges
> >listed ... above. A character whose Magic Rating drops below 1
> >automatically loses all Magical Talent Edges."
> >
>
> Now this IS wierd because I'm looking at pg 33 now and dont see any of this.
> There is a chart at top with "spellcasting talent, summoning talent, astral
> sight, and poor link". There are 4 sections under "magical edges and
flaws"
> that start on pg 32. I see a "bad karma" a "bonus force points"
(continued
> to pg 33) a "focused concentration", a "magic resistance", then
The stuff on the table basically are the magical edges and flaws.
This section however got rather badly mangled by FASA's editorial
department who tiedied up the text and in the process changed the
terminology for a few things. An explanation of how was all intended
to work was posted at one stage by Steve Kenson who wrote the
original rules.
Basically it was intended that only characers who weren't already
buying magic in some form be allowed to select magical edges (listed
but not named as such of the offending table, p33 the companion)
Taking such an edge would give the character a magic rating (computed
in the normal fashion). So these were intended for samuria types only
(ie not spell casters, hysical adepts etc etc) but having an essence
below 1 would still result in no magic attribute in which case you
lose the magic and basically th edge becomes worthless (no magic no
edge)
I allow magicians to take them as well because generally it's
balanced. The one everybody goes on about is astral perception, well
for a physical adept (B magic is 15 points) you get 6 magic points,
the ability to bond foci and the opportunity to initiate (offering
more magic points and MASKING!!! seen a physad with quickened and
masked +3D6 iniviative dice :) ), so 3 points for a mere 2 magic
points worth of power really isn't that steep! You might feel
inclined to raise the cost to 4 but.
> "Misellaneous edges and flaws" headind with stuff like cortex bombs and
> hunted. Have there been more than 1 version of the companion?
no AFAIK. (unless a corrected printing has come out, but thats
unlikely to change this stuff so)
> I didnt think
> there was a SR1 companion or was there?
No.
> I bought mine in a hobby shop last
> month. It says its copyright 1996... I dont know, If it does say the quoted
> material above in the official book then I am incorrect in saying that a
> sammie can take magic edges.
Yes, but gains a magic rating and if that reaches zero he loses them
so no essence zero astrally percieving characters this way :) [it is
possible to achieve both assuming you initiate before getting all the
cyber installed as due to the bonus magic for initiation magic never
reaches zero but the cost is extreame]
> As for the the other edges/flaws they are still
> easily abusible but if the eratta above is true then the edges/flaw table is
> much less nasty than I thought.
Some of the other edges are intended only for use with the standard
characters generation system, bonus attribute points spring to mind.
The points based system is well balanced for mundanes, (metahumans
assuming you are playing more metahumans) and magicians that want at
least 400,000 yen at startup.
If you think points based characters always loose out though try
building a elven Shaman with 5K resources with both standard SR and
the points system, by the time you trade in the excess force points
building the character standard (elf=A) rules create will cost you
about 85-90 building points! This is not too bad in high powered
games or for balancing the game for physical adepts (the bonus being
about what you need, not much if you know what you are doing
physical adepts have the potential to be one of the nastiest things
going just building a good one takes a bit of thought compared to
sorcery 6 and a manabolt or firearms 6, wired 2 and smartgun
syndrome). The other way to balance the points system is offer it
inconjunction with 'sum to 10' where the human mundanes get a 'free
point' to balance the cheapness of points based low money magicians.
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 07:02:22 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <199707230919.DAA10660@******> from "Chris Maxfield" at Jul
23,
97 07:07:21 pm
Content-Type: text
Chris Maxfield wrote:
|
| Yes, it doesn't
| make sense that the initiative winner is disadvantaged and we have a house
| rule for it...
I'd like to see that house rule.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:02:33 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Tue, 22 Jul 1997 22:38:38 -0400 (EDT)"
<19970722.223738.26415.0.lobo1@****.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
You wrote:
> losthalo (under the guise of 'Wendy Wanders':) wrote:
<sssssnip>
> Perhaps. Unfortunately, it also doesn't list them as having the power of
> manifestation, so, by that reason, they shouldn't be able to manifest,
> either:) And, if they have manifestation, they must also have Immunity to
> Normal Weapons (SR2, p219). And therein lies the problem, I suppose:)
Then perhaps it is merely assumed that they have MAnifest, and by association
INW.
losthalo (Wendy's other personality??)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:04:06 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chargen
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Tue, 22 Jul 1997 21:42:19 -0500"
<1.5.4.16.19970722213902.223fa2f2@********.linknet.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
You wrote:
> The entire edges/flaws table is completely messed up. I cant think of a
> single character I wouldnt pay 3 edge points to give astral perception for
> example. The point system can be used to severely abuse the rules. Why
> should a samauri with .0001 essence be able to do anything magical?
Ask your player that very question when he creates the character.
"Um, ummmm... Hm. Yeah, er..."
Well, he might have an explanation, but it prolly won't make too much sense.
People need to make sense when they build characters, and GMs who see glaring
nonsense on a sheet need to call the player on it.
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:11:23 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@*****.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Chargen
In-Reply-To: <199707230518.AAA30560@*******.fgi.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
On 23 Jul 97 at 0:18, TopCat wrote:
> At 09:42 PM 7/22/97 -0500, John wrote:
> >The entire edges/flaws table is completely messed up. I cant think of a
> >single character I wouldnt pay 3 edge points to give astral perception for
> >example.
>
> Considering that you have to be magically active to take any magical talent
> edge, there's quite a few characters out there who simply cannot take the
> Astral Sight edge. I agree, though. It should cost like 5 points.
Ok, I can't take it anymore. I am going to repost this again so that
those who haven't seen it can get it right. Those of you that have, I
apologize. This is a post that Steve Kenson sent that clarifies the
magical edges and flaws as they were intended to be represented.
Please spread the word. It makes perfect sense when viewed in this
manner, and is not overpowerful. Makes the point system even more
flexible, and magic more interesting and varied.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Magicians, Adepts and the Build Point System
Taken from a ShadowRN post by Steve Kenson
--------------------------------------------------------------------
---- MAGICAL ABILITY BREAKDOWN These are the options for magical
ability that I use with the Build-Point System presented in the
Shadowrun Companion. People will recognize some of these levels of
ability as Magical Edges from the Edges & Flaws section and it might
help to clarify how those Edges & Flaws were intended (by me, at
least) to work.
GENERAL RULES
All characters with any kind of magical ability (i.e., anyone who
has spent more than 0 Build Points on magical ability) have a Magic
Attribute, which begins at 6. These characters are collectively
known as "Talented" or "Gifted." ("Magician" is used in my
campaigns
as a generic term for Talented characters with the highest level of
magical ability.) All Talented characters are subject to the rules
governing the Magic Attribute, including loss due to Essence Loss
and Deadly Wounds. Such characters are also all subject to the geasa
rules due to Magic loss.
All Talented characters must follow a tradition (although they may
not always KNOWINGLY do so). The tradition is chosen at character
creation and may not be changed.
MAGICIAN (20 points)
This level gives the character access to full use all of the magical
skills and abilities of his chosen tradition. Generally this will be
either Hermetic (mage) or Shamanic (shaman), but there are other
traditions available to offer slightly different abilities, such as
Nature Magic, Voudoun and so forth.
ADEPT (15 points)
At this level, the character has access to ONE significant area of
magical ability from his chosen tradition. This could be full use of
a single magical skill or partial use of all skills and abilities.
Adepts can bond or use foci that are applicable to their magical
skills and abilities. The character can choose ONE of the following
options:
Conjuring Adept: The character can make full use of the Conjuring
skill, but is considered mundane for other magical skills or
abilities, this includes applications of Conjuring that require
Astral Perception or Projection (including metamagic). The character
can bond or use foci that are applicable to the Conjuring skill.
Elemental Adept: This option is only open to mages. The character is
"aligned" with one of the four hermetic elements: Earth, Air, Fire
or Water. The character can use the Sorcery skill to cast spells
aligned to that element and Conjuring to summon spirits aligned with
that element as well as watchers. The adept can astrally perceive
and project. For all other uses of magical skill, the adept is
considered a mundane.
Physical Adept: The adept "grounds" all of his magical ability into
his body. He may "buy" physical adept powers using his Magic Rating,
but is considered a mundane for the use of all magical skills.
Physical adepts cannot astral perceive unless they purchase the
power that allows them to do so.
Shamanic Adept: This option is only open to shamans. The adept can
use Sorcery to cast spells for which their totem grants a bonus and
Conjuring to summon spirits for which the totem grants a bonus. The
adept can also astrally perceive and project. For all other uses of
magical skill, the adept is considered a mundane. Shamanic adepts
are only available for those totems which provide bonuses based on
Spell Category of Spirit Type, not totems that have bonsuses based
on things such as time of day (such as Owl) or no bonuses (such as
Coyote).
Sorcery Adept: The character can make full use of the Sorcery skill,
but is considered mundane for other magical skills or abilities,
this includes applications of Sorcery that require Astral Perception
(including metamagic).
MINOR ADEPT (Cost varies)
At this level, the character has PARTIAL access to the use of a
magical skill or ability or full use of a fairly limited skill or
ability. Minor adepts can bond and use foci that affect their areas
of skill and ability.
Astral Adept (5 points): The character can make use of astral
perception and projection, but is considered a mundane for the use
of all magical skills.
Banishing Adept (5 points): The adept can use the Conjuring skill to
attempt to banish any type of spirit. For all other uses of magical
skill and ability, the adept is considered a mundane. He cannot
control spirits, only banish them. The adept does gain a totem
bonus, if shamanic, for banishing the appropriate kind of spirit.
Enchanting Adept (5 points): The adept can make full use of the
Enchanting skill. For all other magical skills and abilities, the
adept is considered a mundane.
Astral Sight Adept (3 points): The adept can use astral perception,
but not astral projection. For the use of magical skills, the adept
is considered a mundane. Note this still means that the adept can
learn the specialization of Sorcery for astral combat, since even
mundanes can do so (see Awakenings).
Spell Adept (varies): The adept can use the Sorcery skill to cast a
single spell. If the spell is eligible to be cast using Ritual
Sorcery, the adept can do this as well. The adept can also provide
Spell Defense against the spell he can cast, but not from any
others. For all other magical skills and abilities, including other
uses of the Sorcery skill, the adept is considered a mundane. He
cannot learn or use any other spells. The cost is based on the type
of spell known: Combat (4 points), Detection (2 points), Health (3
points), Illusion (3 points) or Manipulation (4 points). The
gamemaster may adjust the cost if the spell is considered especially
flexible or weak. The spell is automatically known at a Force equal
to the adept's starting Magic Rating and can be increased normally
by spending Karma.
Spirit Adept (varies): The adept can use the Conjuring skill to
summon a single type of spirit: a specific elemental or nature
spirit or a watcher spirit. The adept follows the normal rules for
conjuring the spirit, but cannot have more than one spirit summoned
or bound at a time. The adept may also attempt to banish or control
spirits of the type he can summon. For all other magical skills and
abilities, including other uses of the Conjuring skill, the adept is
considered a mundane. The cost is based on the type of spirit the
adept can summon: elemental or nature spirit (5 points), or watcher
(3 points).
Negamagic Adept (5 points): The adept can use the Sorcery skill to
provide Spell Defense. The number of dice that the adept may
allocate to spell defense is limited to no more than the adept's
Magic Attribute. The adept does not gain the use of Shielding or any
other metamagical abilities on Initiation, only increased Magic and
the ability to allocate more dice to spell defense per turn that
comes with it. For all other magical skills and abilities, including
other uses of the Sorcery skill, the adept is considered a mundane.
NOTES
Gamemasters may have to keep an eye on minor adepts to keep them
from becoming a problem, given their low point cost. Generally
speaking, the Magic Attribute limitation keeps most character
concepts from abusing the option; it's not worth it for a heavily
cybered character to spend 5 points for Negamagic or Banishing
ability if his Magic Attribute is going to be too low to make much
use of it.
Minor adepts (like all of the Talented) have to carefully balance
the benefits of cyberware and implants with maintaining their minor
magical ability. Many of them decide it's not worth it to maintain a
magical lifestyle and go the full cyber-route, burning out and
becoming mundanes. In fact, some cyber characters might have had a
minor adept ability once and just never knew about it before they
had stuffed themselves so full of metal and cultured tissue that
their Power went "poof."
--------------------------------------------------------------------
---- Steve Kenson's writing for FASA includes Awakenings and
Shadowrun Companion.
____________________________________________________________________
Thanks also to Loki for re-posting this the last time so that I
could save it.
--
===DREKHEAD==================================drekhead@***.net===
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
================================================================
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot
stomping on a human face...forever. -George Orwell
----------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 07:14:24 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
In-Reply-To: <199707231059.EAA11465@******> from "Gurth" at Jul 23,
97 12:54:22 pm
Content-Type: text
Gurth wrote:
|
| Loki said on 20:30/22 Jul 97...
|
| > Again, see my other post, Gurth. BBB, page 186 says you resist the
| > 6Ddamage every 12 hours while you're infected with the disease. This
| > makes Vitas-3 much more deadly and capable of living up to it's name.
|
| You're right, I hadn't noticed that line. That makes it a hell of a lot
| more deadly, but still I don't like the way the disease gets handled...
I missed that line also <grump>. And I agree with Gurth. Each
disease should have a description of it's symptoms throughout the
course of the disease, it's method of communication, at which
point(s) during the course of the infection its communicable, etc.
And, whether it's treatable, and how.
I think I'm going to do some RL research on this. Look forward to
something in the future :)
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:16:39 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:04:26 +0100"
<261BD860255@********.uibk.ac.at>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
You wrote:
> Why would the combat pool be refreshed? It is refreshed at the
> beginning of a new combat turn... and that woud be BEFORE anyone of
> the two combatants acts... If you let the two refresh their combat
> pools at different times, well, the outcome is what you described...
> The one with the lower initiative (which should be a drawback)
> effectively doubles his pool for the turn. Doesn't make sense, does
> it?
Combat Pool refreshes:
1) at the beginning of a combat, for all participants
2) on each phase in which a character is eligible for an action (other than the
automatic Free Actions that everyone gets in every phase)
And yes, you give up something by acting first, but when what you gain by
acting first is the ability to pump half or more of your Combat Pool into a
powerful attack and then shift back behind cover, it's worth it. The other
guy, when his turn comes, prolly has wound modifiers, a big disadvantage.
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 07:22:00 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <199707230850.CAA10432@******> from "Adam J" at Jul 23,
97 02:37:20 am
Content-Type: text
Adam J wrote:
|
| >And I disagree totally. Sure, A fight COULD be over that soon, I one
| >of the two scores a lucky hit, or gets to hold his opponent in a
| >position where he can't escape, but chances are, especially if both
| >use rather strike and kick techniques than grabs and chokes, that the
| >fight will last about half a minute at last. Just wach boxing...
| >They fight for several minutes... even in Judo, the fight lasts
| >longer than just a few seconds.
|
| Boxing = Fighting? Not in my opinion..
|
| Its punching, and every real fight I've seen and been in has included more
| than punching. Knee's, elbows, grappling, are all common.
| Grab a guy quickly and knee him in the head. I've seen several fights end
| after a few seconds with that, or even a simple punch to the nose.
|
| Two guys with rules and gloves isn't even close to real fighting, as far as
| I'm concerned.
Ditto with the Judo. The point is in a structured environment fights
can last a while. On the street where there are no rules fights are
usually over with pretty quickly. Even in a structured environment
I've seen a fight end in less then a second. During one of the
olympics in the Tae Kwan Do competition, right off the bat, one
opponent tagged the other opponent in the head with a spin kick and
dropped the guy, and he was wearing protective gear.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:22:07 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Wed, 23 Jul 1997 02:37:20 -0600"
<3.0.3.32.19970723023720.006bbbfc@****.lis.ab.ca>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
You wrote:
> Boxing = Fighting? Not in my opinion..
> Its punching, and every real fight I've seen and been in has included more
> than punching. Knee's, elbows, grappling, are all common.
> Grab a guy quickly and knee him in the head. I've seen several fights end
> after a few seconds with that, or even a simple punch to the nose.
> Two guys with rules and gloves isn't even close to real fighting, as far as
> I'm concerned.
True, but by the same token, when a fight ends quickly and abruptly, it's
usually a sign that one or the other was really superior in skill or position.
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:28:58 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@*****.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Chargen
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970723050444.2cffd3ca@********.linknet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
On 23 Jul 97 at 5:08, John Dukes wrote:
> section and couldnt find a single sentence saying anything about base
> magical ability being a requirement for taking magical edges. I couldnt find
> have "overlooked" it. The description of astral perception as an Edge is
> this: "The character can see into the astral plane through astral
> perception. However, characters cannot astrally project or make use of any
> magical skills without the appropriate magic priority allocation. Astrally
> active characters have all the normal abilities of astral perception and can
> learn the aura reading skill (p.96 AWAKENINGS)." I am not advocating that
John, you answered your own question. See the part that says "without
the appropriate magic priority allocation?" That is the requirement
for base magic ability. You have to spend points to be able to use
magic, i.e. Priority A or B (or C if you use minor adepts). This
translates to 20, 15, or various on the build point system.
It is quite simple, really.
--
===DREKHEAD==================================drekhead@***.net===
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
================================================================
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot
stomping on a human face...forever. -George Orwell
----------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 07:30:59 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Toxin Rules
In-Reply-To: <199707230431.WAA07741@******> from "Jonathan Hurley" at Jul
23,
97 00:34:48 am
Content-Type: text
Jonathan Hurley wrote:
|
[snip: toxin example]
|
| So what happens if he gets two successes against the toxin? Is he
still "in contact" with it on the next round?
Okay, it doesn't say in the book. But my ruling is that you're still
in contact with it if it's entering your system on a continuous
basis. For the guy that takes a bite out of the poisoned burger
that's his only contact with it. If he were to get sprayed by a fair
ammount, so that more of the stuff is seeping through his skin after
the initiatal contact, then he would have to make another role.
Ditto if he fell in a vat of it. Or if it was entering his system
constantly through an IV tube.
If he somehow ingested a lot of it (drank a whole glass of poison)
then I'd rule that he'd have to make more than one resistance test.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 14:33:42 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Toxin Rules
In-Reply-To: <199707231330.HAA02356@******> from "David Buehrer" at Jul
23,
97 07:30:59 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|If he somehow ingested a lot of it (drank a whole glass of poison)
|then I'd rule that he'd have to make more than one resistance test.
I'd be harsher.
I'd say that a bite out of the burger would be in contact with him UNTIL he
got rid of it be throwing up....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 08:32:59 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: mike bernico <mbernico@****.K12.IL.US>
Subject: Re: Physad Enhanced Centering
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just a question on this topic, are there any TN modifiers that enhanced
centering can't reduce. for example, can it reduce reach modifiers.
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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:03:01 EST
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From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
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> explosions, etc.), and if they are hurt, they can up and leave (in
> the case above, involving a true form anyway).
Granted. I had the spirit not leave because I
1) Wanted to hurt the players
2) Wanted to see a bug in melee
> I just don't see how a character with a willpower of 6 can whoop so
> much butt...I mean, he doesn't get to use his Combat Pool, because
> he's using Willpower, NOT Armed Combat to attack the bug. Thus, the
> PC should be rolling 6 dice for Armed Combat, and the Bug should be
> rolling 8. Not to mention, the bug's armor against the sword...the
> PC should be toast.
What Armor? Immunity doesn't apply to melee weapons.
PC rolling 6 die versus Bug rolling 8. PC has superior Reach
(sword). PC has superior damage (sword). He had no trouble at all
squishing the bug.
Am I missing a vital stat here? I mean I know I can "modify" the
bugs to make them stronger, but the stats as listed didn't seem too
threatening.
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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:11:12 EST
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From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
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> average sammy (Srength 8+, wilppower 3-4), this can be a HUGE
> difference, when suddenly the force 8 you're fighting is takeing 4M
> damamge instead of 10M, and has 8 points of armor, making it's
> resistance role effectively a 2 (Of course, it would have been a 2
Actually I think (awakenings will back me up) that the Willpower is
used for SKILL, but that Strength is still used for the weapons.
Also, Am I wrong in recalling that most Bug spirits Threat ratings
were something like Force/4??!?!?!?!!
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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:17:53 -0500
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From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
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At 09:11 AM 7/23/97 +0100, Simon T. Sailer wrote:
>Sure, A fight COULD be over that soon, I one
>of the two scores a lucky hit, or gets to hold his opponent in a
>position where he can't escape, but chances are, especially if both
>use rather strike and kick techniques than grabs and chokes, that the
>fight will last about half a minute at last. Just wach boxing...
>They fight for several minutes... even in Judo, the fight lasts
>longer than just a few seconds.
>
Well, the two styles you mentioned (judo and american boxing) are both from
tournament format. While I'll admit that fights can/will last about 30
seconds or so, they aren't _usually_ going to go beyond that. Boxing and
judo, in tournament, aren't designed to kill your opponent. I'm not
harshing them for that, it's just true. But take a non-tournament fighting
art (Silat, Wing Chun Kung Fu, Gracie style Jujitsu, Kali, etc.) where one
fighter is either better than the other or gets an advantage, and you will
have a short, painful fight.
My problem with the current Sr uac is the fact that specializing in a
specific martial arts style has no drawback. If you've only fought one
style, practised one style, studied one style, and never really contacted
another style, you're going to have some serious problems when you
encounter someone who knows a different style. Example, how does a boxer
counter a pak sao lap sao? If all you've ever done is box, you won't know
what to do when someone throws a weird manuever at you. My current Gm
(Topcat) is the guy who convinced me of this (luckily, not by slapping me
around:). The house rule we use is that if you specialize, you can only
use your specilization when you fight someone fighting in the same style.
Works well, and reduces the powergaming potentials of specializing in a
style (actually gives it a drawback.)
Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/
The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton
Gencon count down: 15 days
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:03:19 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Physad Enhanced Centering
In-Reply-To: <199707231340.HAA02587@******> from "mike bernico" at Jul
23,
97 08:32:59 am
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mike bernico wrote:
|
| just a question on this topic, are there any TN modifiers that enhanced
| centering can't reduce. for example, can it reduce reach modifiers.
Assuming you took enhanced centering in Combat :) yes, it could be
used to reduce negative reach modifiers. The only exception to
reducing modifiers is that Centering and Enhanced Centering can only
be used to counter negative modifiers (an increase to the target
number). A character couldn't reduce the target number by 4 if the
negative modifiers totaled +2, he could only counter the +2. It
doesn't matter where the negative modifiers are coming from.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:10:34 -0600
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From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <199707231420.IAA03848@******> from "Michael Broadwater" at
Jul
23, 97 09:17:53 am
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Michael Broadwater wrote:
|
| My problem with the current Sr uac is the fact that specializing in a
| specific martial arts style has no drawback.
|
| My current Gm
| (Topcat) is the guy who convinced me of this (luckily, not by slapping me
| around:). The house rule we use is that if you specialize, you can only
| use your specilization when you fight someone fighting in the same style.
| Works well, and reduces the powergaming potentials of specializing in a
| style (actually gives it a drawback.)
I rule that Concentrating/Specializing only applies to either Attacking or
Defending (chosen at the time of Concentration/Specialization).
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:12:48 -0600
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From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Toxin Rules
In-Reply-To: <199707231335.HAA02492@******> from "Spike" at Jul 23,
97 02:33:42 pm
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Spike wrote:
|
| |If he somehow ingested a lot of it (drank a whole glass of poison)
| |then I'd rule that he'd have to make more than one resistance test.
|
| I'd be harsher.
| I'd say that a bite out of the burger would be in contact with him UNTIL he
| got rid of it be throwing up....
Well, I don't know that much about toxins (my speciality is Fire :).
Hm... That whole "contact" rule is so ambiguous :( I hope Steve
sees this.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:24:07 -0500
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From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma; and fencing
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At 11:15 PM 7/22/97 -0500, William Monroe Ashe wrote:
>On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Paul J. Adam wrote:
>>
>> Reminds me of when I used to fence. The first time I took on the
>> instructor, and typically I lost the point on almost every lunge: he'd
>> parry and riposte and get me. So, I always "lost on my action".
>>
>> If you're good, the enemy attacking gives you an opening to attack into.
>You must have fenced epee. In foil and sabre you must defend, (no sneaky
>counter attacks although a good stop hit in time is always a crowd pleaser.)
Actually, all you have to do in both foil and sabre is parry slightly and
then riposte. If you parry well enough that they don't hit at all, it's
your point. If you parry/riposte and hit at all, it's your point. If you
stop thrust, and they hit you, it's their point, no matter if you hit first
or not. You have to take the offensive away from your opponet _or_ not
allow them to hit to score if they're attacking.
In other words: The parry riposte that hits, scores.
Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/
The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton
Gencon count down: 14 days
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:25:33 -0500
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From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] the uac dilemma; and fencing
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At 12:28 AM 7/23/97 -0600, Caun Haskins wrote:
>> You must have fenced epee. In foil and sabre you must defend, (no sneaky
>> counter attacks although a good stop hit in time is always a crowd
pleaser.)
>>
> Foil and Sabre both have Right of way, correct? so if you parry
>adiquitly and have a quick repost you get the touch.
Correct. As soon as a parry is succesfully made (encounters the blade)
right of way changes.
Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/
The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton
Gencon count down: 14 days
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 01:26:58 +1000
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From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <199707231302.HAA01696@******>
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At 07:02 23/07/97 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:
>| Yes, it doesn't
>| make sense that the initiative winner is disadvantaged and we have a house
>| rule for it...
>
>I'd like to see that house rule.
It's very simple: the character that loses initiative on the first turn of
melee combat does not have their combat pool refreshed on their first
action but instead has it refreshed on their second action (even if that
second action is in the next turn) . Thereafter, pools refresh on every
action as per normal.
This means the two opponents start with full pools (starting anyone with
less is almost always deadly for that character, as the initiator of this
thread commented) but then grants an advantage to the initiative winner.
Chris
_______________________________________________________________
Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 16:43:03 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
Chris Maxfield writes
>
> It's very simple: the character that loses initiative on the first turn of
> melee combat does not have their combat pool refreshed on their first
> action but instead has it refreshed on their second action (even if that
> second action is in the next turn) . Thereafter, pools refresh on every
> action as per normal.
>
> This means the two opponents start with full pools (starting anyone with
> less is almost always deadly for that character, as the initiator of this
> thread commented) but then grants an advantage to the initiative winner.
>
Um but if firearms become involved?
I have been wondering, what about banning people from adding combat
pool to skills until they have had an action in combat?
Therefore whoever wins the initative gets to add combat pool to the
attack while thier opponent does not. Ok the target may still use
full defence but. This avoids the problems affecting dice pool
refresh timing causes if a third person decides to interfer in the
melee (especially if its with a gun). Assuming the guy that lost the
initiative isn't wearing so much armour that the attacks going to
bounce off, the person that wins should now get a big advantage as
theres no more 'well i'm going second so pour my pool into melee
combat at low TN because it will refresh before my action'.
Still not perfect. You could always simply ban combat poolmfrom being
used against attacks made using 'melee combat' until the person has
had an action, it's not as if they are difficult to identify as the
'cannot use combat pool on both the skill roll and dodge' rule
already uses this identifier to track it's applicability.
comments?
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 16:35:33 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
Michael Broadwater writes
>
> Well, the two styles you mentioned (judo and american boxing) are both from
> tournament format. While I'll admit that fights can/will last about 30
> seconds or so, they aren't _usually_ going to go beyond that. Boxing and
> judo, in tournament, aren't designed to kill your opponent.
exactly!
A lot of people seem to be thinking fights should last a long time
based on films (Hollywood etc make money by keeping you in the
cinema, difficult to enjoy watching the fight scene if its over
before you realised it started) and styles designed for competion
fighting which ban moves that really knock the poor target down so
folks can practice them without spending all thier time in hospitals
and building themselves back up from injuries.
> I'm not
> harshing them for that, it's just true. But take a non-tournament fighting
> art (Silat, Wing Chun Kung Fu, Gracie style Jujitsu, Kali, etc.) where one
> fighter is either better than the other or gets an advantage, and you will
> have a short, painful fight.
>
The answer all the well informed sources i have heard have produced.
There are quite a few things you can do to someone that will
effectively take them out of it in a second of so, but most are fatal
(or stand a decent chance of being) or break bones (leaving the
target in a cast for 6 weeks +) niether of which are very compatible
with practice (difficult to learn something if the instuctor keeps
breaking your arm in the first 5 seconds) or a tournament where doing
serious harm to someone is going to be most unpopular (you only need
to beat him).
> My problem with the current Sr uac is the fact that specializing in a
> specific martial arts style has no drawback.
Why they get banned so often.
There are ways to make something that both works and is balanced but
they either require both GM and player know a lot (which some of us
don't) or tend to get complicated. e.g. i converted the stuff in the
Ultimate martial artist for 2nd edition (there are 1sted SR rules in
the system conversion charts) but it gets too complex for most
players to bother with.
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:51:27 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:02:33 -0500 "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU> writes:
>Then perhaps it is merely assumed that they have MAnifest, and by
>association
>INW.
That would be my assumption.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:51:26 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
Loki wrote
<<Actually what it's implying IMHO is that Queens/Mothers have the
immunity to normal weapons per a Free Spirit's power. In other words,
immunity to all mundane weaponry (swords, clubs, guns, bows, etc.)
Whereas the other true forms only getting INW against ranged combat, as
is normal with the manifestation power.
Make sense?>>
(Meant to reply when I saw this and hit the delete key before I could)
Yes, and it makes tangling with a queen some seriously scary sh!t,
doesn't it. <EGMG> :)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:51:27 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Chargen
John Dukes wrote:
<<Have there been more than 1 version of the companion?>>
Actually, there is a corrected version, where they made sure everything
was written up as was intended (like the thing on the Oni where they
could swap Race and Magic in Chargen, what was intended was that they be
able to swap out Race, Magic and Resources in some way to leave open a
higher priority for Resources, I think)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:51:27 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Physad Enhanced Centering
On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:32:55 GMT Mark Steedman
<M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk> writes:
<<Ok base you get centring for just the two physical skills.>>
Yep, Stealth and Athletics. With you so far, except they might also get
it for any magical skills they can use (since they don't have much use
for such skills, I don't see this as being a big problem).
<<Enhanced centring i believe is bought 'by the skill'.>>
Actually, it's bought by skill category (as outlined in the skill chart
in SR2). So, two Magic Points allow him to use it for Armed Combat,
Unarmed Combat, Firearms, Gunnery, Throwing Weapons, Projectile Weapons
and Demolitions.
<remainder snipped>
I agree with pretty much everything else, and can't see quoting it for a
me too:)
On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:54:22 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
<<If he doesn't spend the 2 MP for the power, all he can use it for are
magical skills: Sorcery, Conjuring, that kind of thing. I don't see
physads using those on a regular basis, so in itself the Centering power
is mostly useless for a physad.>>
Actually, Gurth, the Grimmy states that a physad can automatically use
Centering with Physical Skills.
<<But consider this: for 2 MP you can reduce the TN for shooting someone
by taking out the glare penalty caused by the sun reflecting off that
car. Or get more money from Mr. Johnson by effectively removing his
distrust of you. This is a pretty powerful ability to have, and if you
really want it you can think ahead and spend only 4 MP onpowers during
character generation, then initiate and take the Enhanced Centering power
immediately when you gain grade 0.>>
Again, agreed:) It just requires a bit of thought to make effective use
of it. . .
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:51:27 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:54:22 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>Not quite true. They have a Reaction of 8, and get a +10 to
>initiative;
>those are two separate things.
<sheepish grin> This is what I get for not closely reading my books, I
guess. You're right, that's exactly the way it's listed in the Grimmy,
Bug City, though it's not exactly what is stated in the BBB, hence my
confusion.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:51:26 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Chargen
On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 05:08:02 -0500 John Dukes <dukes@*******.NET> writes:
<<Nonsense. I have thoroughly read the point system. I just reread the
entire section and couldnt find a single sentence saying anything about
base magical ability being a requirement for taking magical edges. I
couldnt find a "Magical Talents" section anywhere in the Companion. I
realize it makes sense for the low essence samauri to be unable to use
magical edges however the (official) rules do not state that he is unable
to take them. >>
<buzzer> Oh, I'm sorry, that's not the correct answer, but you've been a
great contestant and we have some wonderful consolation prizes for you...
Actually, that is _exactly_ what the official rules state. Under "Magical
Talent", p33
Only magically active characters with Magic Ratings of 1 or
higher can purchase any of the Magical Talent Edges. . .
This is contrary to the intentions of the writer (Steve Kenson), who
intended that only a character who has not already selected Magic
Priority could get _one_ of the Magical Talent Edges (so a character
without any selected Magic Priority could get Astral Sight OR the ability
to conjure watchers OR the ability to cast a _single_ spell OR etc, etc)
<<Please feel free to post a page number for the section "Magical
Talents" I seem to have "overlooked" it.>>
See above.
<<The description of astral perception as an Edge is this: "The character
can see into the astral plane through astral perception. However,
characters cannot astrally project or make use of any magical skills
without the appropriate magic priority allocation. Astrally active
characters have all the normal abilities of astral perception and can
learn the aura reading skill (p.96 AWAKENINGS)." I am not advocating that
GMs let .1 essence samauri have magical abilities however there is
nothing in the book that prohibits it.>>
Again, see above. It also states that a character loses all magical
talents and abilities when his Magic rating becomes less than 1.
<<Are you trying to imply the point system cant be abused? I suggest
house rules.>>
No, TopCat just feels that the point system is less open to abuse, not
that it is immune to abuse.
<<As for the other edges/flaws some are _incredibly_ easy to abuse. Take
for example the 1 pt edge Natural Immunity.>>
Actually, Astral Sight is a better one, you can give it to a physad. Or
there's Lightning Reflexes. Or High Pain Tolerance. Or Amnesia (for the
person too lazy to write up a background, 2 _extra_ Build Points). Or
SOTA Model. Or Aptitude. Or. . . But, if you, as a GM, can't trust your
players to create balanced characters on their own, then you need to
start working more closely with them. Feel free to ban certain Edges and
Flaws, and feel free to ban the entire point-based system, the entire
book is totally optional, after all.
<<Is it balanced if RunnerX is immune to narcoject toxin in exchange for
a mild phobia of hearing a trains whistle? I guess that +1TN modifier
while hearing a train whistly is worth complete immunity to narcoject? At
any rate please show me I'm wrong.>>
On which point, Magical Talents or Natural Immunity? I just demonstrated
Magical Talents, and if you'll read closely you'll see that Natural
Immunity is only good against a _natural_ disease or toxin, so unless you
can point out a passage where it states that Narcoject is a
naturally-ocurring substance. . . You can have an immunity to hemlock, or
nightshade, cyanide (it _does_ occur naturally, after all:) or against
VITAS or the common cold, but not against any man-made poison or
biowarfare agent, which is explicitly stated in the approriate text.
<<I would rather like to read the cleverly hidden section on balancing
magical talents.>>
Page 33, bottom left-hand column, Shadowrun Companion. Read it closely,
it's not that complicated.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:51:26 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:18:54 +0100 "Simon T. Sailer"
<Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT> writes:
>Hmmm.... The +10 to reaction is only for calculating initiative... To
>determine the skill rating, you should only use twice the force as
>reaction... (IMHO, but makes sense, doesn't it?)
Actually, you're right, but my confusion stems from the section on Spirit
Initiative where it says that a spirit has a reaction equal to the base
reaction for that spirit PLUS ten while physically manifest. It doesn't
actually say that this only applies for initiative (something it does
state in the bug descriptions in the Grimmy and Bug City [stupid tables])
>How would he survive? If the attacking character has 1 success, the
>average 1,5 successes the Spirit is likely to score will stage the
>damage level to...... D. If the attacking character has more
>successes than 1, the spirit is toast...
I doubt the attacker would have much more than one success, in this case
anyway (no recoil comp, so +9 recoil mod, no combat pool, willpower only
- not too good for metal-boy, eh?) Even so, I just test-rolled some dice
(not having either a dice-rolling program or a probabilities table to
consult) and came up with four successes from 9 dice. He'd live. He
wouldn't be in real great shape, but he also heals a box of damage every
minute he's not in battle (ala an elemental:), right?
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:57:05 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Collins" <scollins@**.UML.EDU>
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <199707220937.CAA29007@*****.efn.org>
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On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, David Hinkley wrote:
->On 21 Jul 97 at 10:12, Simon T. Sailer wrote:
->
->> HI!
->> Just one simple, not too important question to all those who play
->> shadowrun regularly...
->> What If a player is missing at one session? Do you let another one
->> play his character? Or do you think of a way to let the character
->> disappear for some time?
->
->The gameing group I used to game with had several solutions that
->were situational:
->
->2) If we were in an adventure, the character was "turned grey". He
->was there but could not be hurt nor could he do anything. The only
->way he could be lost was if the entire party was killed. At the first
->available opportunity, that does not further complcate the adventure
->(i.e. not at a airport where the group is changing planes), he is
->dropped from the party.
->
I have seen this methood or something similar to it mentioned but no
one seems to have caught onto SR's built in mechanism for this,
Alienation.
Have a Q(from ST:TNG) like free spirit running around in the game
alienating characters from time to time. This way the character is
removed and it is completely explainable. As to why is this godlike
freespirit taking such an interest in the characters, well why does Q
take such an interest in the Enterprise crew, for his own inexplicable
reasons that we (ie the players ) could never figure out if we tried.
Maybe he just thinks it's fun to yank their chains
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:06:26 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
On Wednesday, July 23, 1997 01:32, Justin Pinnow[SMTP:vanyel@*******.NET]
wrote:
> > From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
> > Date: Wednesday, July 23, 1997 12:28 AM
> > Not that ItNW will help against an attack of 13-15 power level....
>
> Actually, it will help quite a bit. If you are fighting a force 5 true
> form, that would reduce the power level to 3-5. Apply standard armor to
> that and voila...almost no power left, if anything. Whatever is left
will
> be exceedingly easy to shake off. Big difference.
See, I'd give them one but not the other (as their "armor" is based on
their force.) If fact, the last time I ran my party against bugs, I *did*
give them ItNW, and it did help. (The entire team was captured in ~2 rounds
of combat (I love paralyzing tough.) But the PCs with assault rifles (one
with a firearms 8) did kill a few. Then the bugs got into HtH and it was
all over.
(in Re: firearms 8, the PC was a SpecFor sniper before he went into the
shadows, and still spends a *lot* of time keeping his edge (and quite
frankly, I don't run that much combat anymore.))
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:09:30 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
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> From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
> Date: Wednesday, July 23, 1997 11:03 AM
<Snip>
> > I just don't see how a character with a willpower of 6 can whoop so
> > much butt...I mean, he doesn't get to use his Combat Pool, because
> > he's using Willpower, NOT Armed Combat to attack the bug. Thus, the
> > PC should be rolling 6 dice for Armed Combat, and the Bug should be
> > rolling 8. Not to mention, the bug's armor against the sword...the
> > PC should be toast.
> What Armor? Immunity doesn't apply to melee weapons.
I wasn't talking about immunity to normal weapons, I was talking about
natural armor. Check out their Body stat again (for true forms). That
second number (on the right side of the slash) is natural armor
(exoskeleton, etc.). Thus, in addition to having immunity to normal
weapons (via manifestat) affecting ranged attacks, they also have some
armor against melee attacks. Understand why they are so brutal now?
> PC rolling 6 die versus Bug rolling 8. PC has superior Reach
> (sword). PC has superior damage (sword). He had no trouble at all
> squishing the bug.
> Am I missing a vital stat here? I mean I know I can "modify" the
> bugs to make them stronger, but the stats as listed didn't seem too
> threatening.
Yes, you are forgetting all about Threat Rating for the True Form. IIRC,
the Threat Rating for ANY spirit is equal to its force. I can't find this
in writing anywhere, so I am just going on memory. (If someone has a page
number for this or has conflicting information, please let me know!) Thus,
your Force 4 true form would roll 8 dice for skill due to its Reaction PLUS
4 more dice for its Threat Rating. This comes to a total of 12 dice for
all Unarmed Combat attacks, for example. The damage rating for a standard
sword is Strength +2 (M). Most true forms have Strength (M) damage codes.
However, keep in mind that the strength of a True Form is generally equal
to anywhere from Force +2 to Force +5. Thus, with a force 4 or so True
Form, the spirit would have at least a 6 Strength. That's the maximum
non-cybered rating for a human.
I think your players should thank their lucky stars that you didn't know
all about what makes an Insect Spirit just plain harsh! Just think what
would have happened if I GMed that session....Muwahahahaha!
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:12:23 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
> Date: Wednesday, July 23, 1997 11:11 AM
> > average sammy (Srength 8+, wilppower 3-4), this can be a HUGE
> > difference, when suddenly the force 8 you're fighting is takeing 4M
> > damamge instead of 10M, and has 8 points of armor, making it's
> > resistance role effectively a 2 (Of course, it would have been a 2
> Actually I think (awakenings will back me up) that the Willpower is
> used for SKILL, but that Strength is still used for the weapons.
You are correct, Brett. Strength still affects the damage code of the
weapon. Thus, keep the original damage code. However, don't forget about
the natural armor that True Forms have. Subtract that from the force of
the attack and then resist what's left (if anything).
> Also, Am I wrong in recalling that most Bug spirits Threat ratings
> were something like Force/4??!?!?!?!!
I highly doubt that. As I just stated in my last e-mail, I believe the
Threat Rating is equal to the spirit's Force, but I could be wrong and I
don't know if this varies for the Queen, etc. I can't find this in writing
anywhere.
Fasa, please clean up the Spirit stuff. Please. :)
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:19:12 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
On Wednesday, July 23, 1997 04:35, Simon T.
> IMHO, attacks with melee weapons against any kind of spirit except
> flesh forms of insect spirits should be resolved by
> rolling willpower instead of uac, if the attacker is no
> physad with killing hands. And all spirits in manifest form
> should have ITNW, which gives them twice their force as hardened
> armor against ranged attacks only.
> (We could restart the discussion about how hardened armor works, now
> that I've mentioned it..)
Excuse me? HARDENED ARMOR? I don't think so. PAoE doesn't mention anything
of the kind (though, interestingly enough, it gives the critter
auto-successes against elemental-affect damage... (?)) Neither does PAoNA.
Neither does the BBB. (PAoE has precedence over the BBB, as it 1) came out
later, and 2) says so.)
Besides, true form insect spirits don't need armor beyond what they've got
in their stats (typically equal to their force or so.) *THEY OUTNUMBER THE
PCS.* Works much better for me. Sure, it means that a decently equipped PC
can kill a bug on his/her action with a firearm. But once they get into HtH
and the enemies in melee penalty starts to kick in.... It's goodbye PCs.
Think about bugs. Do you see one kick-ass bug, or a lot of smaller ones all
swarming their target. Re-read _Burning_Bright_. The K-E team going into
the hive crunched a *huge* number of bugs (mainly with shotguns and FA
weapons) and they still died, because they couldn't kill bugs *fast
enough.* There is a hive in a certain SR module with 300(!) bugs spirits in
it (IIRC). The PC's should never see one bug. There should be at least 9
more hiding around.
Oh, and ItNW doesn't work against a certain kind of ranged weapon, bows.
(Not x-bows, thought.)
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:17:23 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Collins" <scollins@**.UML.EDU>
Subject: Re: SR-type movies (was: A Li'l Ole Question)
In-Reply-To: <869572394.1525259.0@*******.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Avenger wrote:
>>>snip lotsa stuff about lafemme nikita/point of no return/assasin<<<
->Just take a look at Aliens, and then ask yourselves why the Directors Cut
->hasn't been released in the US yet. It's got a storyline... <grin>
->
Aww man there's a directors cut of aliens. Why'd you have to go and
tell me that? Now I'm gonna have to try and find the damn thing. On
the plus side only a few weeks till Starship Troopers opens. I'm sure
theyre gonna destroy the book but it still looks pretty good from the
previews i've seen. Now if they's only make a movie out of Mote in the
Gods Eye or one of the Falkenbergs Legion books.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:21:59 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:11:12 EST Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU> writes:
>Also, Am I wrong in recalling that most Bug spirits Threat ratings
>were something like Force/4??!?!?!?!!
Oh, boy. I remember the last time we had this discussion with Brian
Allison:) What it says is Threat/Professional Rating: Force/4, which is
interpreted as Threat Rating=Force, Professional Rating=4.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:26:49 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
On Wednesday, July 23, 1997 04:04, Simon T.
Sailer[SMTP:Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT] wrote:
> > The clock counts down to 13. Now B, who lost initiative, goes on 13 and
> > joy-oh-joy has his combat pool refreshed. He attacks A with all of his
> > refreshed combat pool dice. A only has combat pool dice, if any, he did
not
> > use on 15. Needless to say, A is screwed. This only happens on the
first
> > turn of melee combat.
>
> Why would the combat pool be refreshed? It is refreshed at the
> beginning of a new combat turn... and that woud be BEFORE anyone of
> the two combatants acts... If you let the two refresh their combat
> pools at different times, well, the outcome is what you described...
> The one with the lower initiative (which should be a drawback)
> effectively doubles his pool for the turn. Doesn't make sense, does
> it?
Combat pool refreshes *every action.* The fact that it appears to refresh
at the beginning of the *first* turn of combat is a sloppy way of saying
that everybody starts combat with a full combat pool (unless surprised.)
Yes, that means that Quicksilver, (my NPC namesake) with an initiative roll
of 25, refreshes his pool at 25, 15, and 5. *if* this is the first round,
and *if* someone beats him on initiative, and *if* that person attacks him
in HtH, he does (sorta) get to refresh his pools in less than 10 phases.
That is the only situation where he gets an advantage to going second. (And
as everyone else pointed out, the faster guy is probably going to hold his
action until Quicksilver's...)
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:32:43 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
On Wednesday, July 23, 1997 04:11, Simon T.
Sailer[SMTP:Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT] wrote:
> > Have you ever been in a real fight (one where either or both sides
> > now how to fight)? It is over that quickly.
>
> Well, I never had to fight for my life, but yes, I have been in a
> couple of fights up to now...
> And I disagree totally. Sure, A fight COULD be over that soon, I one
> of the two scores a lucky hit, or gets to hold his opponent in a
> position where he can't escape, but chances are, especially if both
> use rather strike and kick techniques than grabs and chokes, that the
> fight will last about half a minute at last. Just wach boxing...
> They fight for several minutes... even in Judo, the fight lasts
> longer than just a few seconds.
Boxing is a bad example. I dunno about judo. But I fence, and a touch, even
in foil or saber, where a touch is considered to be a lethal or
debilitating strike, the first touch will often occur within a few seconds.
(The touch might be disallowed because of right-of-way, which is the judges
way of saying you're *both* dead, but I digress.) Or Japanese-style sword
dueling. Basically, the opponents stare at each other until they think they
see an opening, and strike. Since striking creates an opening, the other
strikes as well. The faster hits, the slower *dies.*
In any martial contest where killing/crippling blows are not disallowed,
fights are over with the first or second successful strike.
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:34:37 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: SR-type movies (was: A Li'l Ole Question)
In-Reply-To: <199707231618.KAA10312@******> from "Steven A. Collins" at
Jul
23, 97 12:17:23 pm
Content-Type: text
Steven A. Collins wrote:
|
| On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Avenger wrote:
|
|
| >>>snip lotsa stuff about lafemme nikita/point of no return/assasin<<<
|
| ->Just take a look at Aliens, and then ask yourselves why the Directors Cut
| ->hasn't been released in the US yet. It's got a storyline... <grin>
| ->
|
| Aww man there's a directors cut of aliens. Why'd you have to go and
| tell me that? Now I'm gonna have to try and find the damn thing. On
| the plus side only a few weeks till Starship Troopers opens. I'm sure
| theyre gonna destroy the book but it still looks pretty good from the
| previews i've seen. Now if they's only make a movie out of Mote in the
| Gods Eye or one of the Falkenbergs Legion books.
Hope you have a laser-disk player, cuz that's the only format the
director's cut comes in (I've been looking for the VHS version off
and on for the last 4 years).
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 17:38:53 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: SR-type movies (was: A Li'l Ole Question)
In-Reply-To: <199707231634.KAA11335@******> from "David Buehrer" at Jul
23,
97 10:34:37 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|Hope you have a laser-disk player, cuz that's the only format the
|director's cut comes in (I've been looking for the VHS version off
|and on for the last 4 years).
It's available on VHS over on this side of the pond.
But that's only because no-one has Video disk players over here...
There's no market for it....
Shame you use NTSC and we use PAL, innit?
:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:42:03 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <199707231551.JAA08533@******> from "Mark Steedman" at Jul
23,
97 04:43:03 pm
Content-Type: text
Mark Steedman wrote:
|
| Chris Maxfield writes
| >
| > It's very simple: the character that loses initiative on the first turn of
| > melee combat does not have their combat pool refreshed on their first
| > action but instead has it refreshed on their second action (even if that
| > second action is in the next turn) . Thereafter, pools refresh on every
| > action as per normal.
| >
| > This means the two opponents start with full pools (starting anyone with
| > less is almost always deadly for that character, as the initiator of this
| > thread commented) but then grants an advantage to the initiative winner.
| >
| Um but if firearms become involved?
|
| I have been wondering, what about banning people from adding combat
| pool to skills until they have had an action in combat?
| Therefore whoever wins the initative gets to add combat pool to the
| attack while thier opponent does not. Ok the target may still use
| full defence but. This avoids the problems affecting dice pool
| refresh timing causes if a third person decides to interfer in the
| melee (especially if its with a gun). Assuming the guy that lost the
| initiative isn't wearing so much armour that the attacks going to
| bounce off, the person that wins should now get a big advantage as
| theres no more 'well i'm going second so pour my pool into melee
| combat at low TN because it will refresh before my action'.
|
| comments?
It'd be easier to say: Pools refresh at the beginning of combat.
After combat starts a character's dice pools refresh at the *end* of
that character's action phase.
Several GMs allready do the same thing with Karma Pools (refresh at
the end of an encounter, or after the PCs find time to rest and
recover their wits) and that works great.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:45:38 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chargen
On Wednesday, July 23, 1997 01:18, TopCat[SMTP:topcat@***.NET] wrote:
> At 09:42 PM 7/22/97 -0500, John wrote:
> Lots of people have overlooked huge areas of the point-based system, have
> deigned not to even try it, and voice loudly their opinion that it is
> overpowered and leads to rule abuse. Characters built under the point
> system end up LESS powerful than those built under the priority system.
I
> know, I've worked through the system. FASA knows, they make this
> acknowledgement in the section on the point-based system.
>
> Work through the system before you form your opinions on it...
I agree with you. Metahuman mages get a bit of a boost. (Which tey sorely
needed IMHO.) Other than that, the point-based system is very nice.
Edges and flaws OTOH, the concept is good, but the execution is, well, a
little flawed. Pain resistance is the edge most noticed by my players (to
the point where I has to limit the use of it,) and no-one really wants to
take flaws. (Oh, and both phobias and allergies are missing the "Nuisance"
entry on their tables that would allow them to be -1 at the minimum.
(Nuisance: Has no game affect, but the character will tend to avoid
situations that put him in contact with it.))
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:45:45 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: SR-type movies (was: A Li'l Ole Question)
In-Reply-To: <199707231639.KAA11729@******> from "Spike" at Jul 23,
97 05:38:53 pm
Content-Type: text
Spike wrote:
|
| |Hope you have a laser-disk player, cuz that's the only format the
| |director's cut comes in (I've been looking for the VHS version off
| |and on for the last 4 years).
|
| It's available on VHS over on this side of the pond.
| But that's only because no-one has Video disk players over here...
|
| There's no market for it....
|
| Shame you use NTSC and we use PAL, innit?
| :)
Aaaarrrrgh!! <sound of head banging against wall>
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:59:21 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chargen
On Wednesday, July 23, 1997 06:08, John Dukes[SMTP:dukes@*******.NET]
wrote:
> >>The entire edges/flaws table is completely messed up. I cant think of a
> >>single character I wouldnt pay 3 edge points to give astral perception
for
> >>example.
>
> >
> >Considering that you have to be magically active to take any magical
talent
> >edge, there's quite a few characters out there who simply cannot take
the
> >Astral Sight edge. I agree, though. It should cost like 5 points.
> >
>
> >> The point system can be used to severely abuse the rules. Why
> >>should a samauri with .0001 essence be able to do anything magical?
>
> >
> >He can't. As is also mentioned under "Magical Talents" you must have a
> >point of magic. Since a samurai with 0.0001 (or even 0.0) essence would
> >have no magic rating, he'd have no access to magical talents. He'd also
> >have to had bought magic at chargen or he couldn't get it anyway.
> >
> >Lots of people have overlooked huge areas of the point-based system,
have
> >deigned not to even try it, and voice loudly their opinion that it is
> >overpowered and leads to rule abuse. Characters built under the point
> >system end up LESS powerful than those built under the priority system.
I
> >know, I've worked through the system. FASA knows, they make this
> >acknowledgement in the section on the point-based system.
> >
> >Work through the system before you form your opinions on it...
>
> Nonsense. I have thoroughly read the point system. I just reread the
entire
> section and couldnt find a single sentence saying anything about base
> magical ability being a requirement for taking magical edges. I couldnt
find
> a "Magical Talents" section anywhere in the Companion. I realize it makes
> sense for the low essence samauri to be unable to use magical edges
however
> the (official) rules do not state that he is unable to take them. Please
> feel free to post a page number for the section "Magical Talents" I seem
to
> have "overlooked" it. The description of astral perception as an Edge is
> this: "The character can see into the astral plane through astral
> perception. However, characters cannot astrally project or make use of
any
> magical skills without the appropriate magic priority allocation.
Astrally
> active characters have all the normal abilities of astral perception and
can
> learn the aura reading skill (p.96 AWAKENINGS)." I am not advocating that
> GMs let .1 essence samauri have magical abilities however there is
nothing
> in the book that prohibits it. Are you trying to imply the point system
cant
> be abused? I suggest house rules. As for the other edges/flaws some are
> _incredibly_ easy to abuse. Take for example the 1 pt edge Natural
Immunity.
> Is it balanced if RunnerX is immune to narcoject toxin in exchange for a
> mild phobia of hearing a trains whistle? I guess that +1TN modifier while
> hearing a train whistly is worth complete immunity to narcoject? At any
rate
> please show me I'm wrong. I would rather like to read the cleverly hidden
> section on balancing magical talents.
First, Bob (TopCat) is saying that the point-based character gen system is
good. The point-based system is *NOT* the edges/flaws system, they have
very little to do with each other. You *can* have one without using the
other. Second, a samurai with less than 1 point of essence *cannot* have
any of the magical talent edges as his magic rating would then be less than
1, and p33 SRC says "Only ... characters with ... Magic ratings of 1 or
higher can purchase any of the magical talent edges listed on the table
above. A character whose magic rating drops below 1 automatically loses all
magical talent edges." (The ellipses above indicate places where the FASA
editorial department munged the author's intentions. The first says
"magically active" and the second says "active." Hey Steve, can you
talk to
FASA and try to get them to issue errata for the paragraph?)
Second, a PC cannot be immune to Narcoject toxin without spending Y40K in
chargen. Natural immunity only allows you to be immune to a *natural* toxin
or disease. Manmade toxins and bio-war agents cannot be affected. (The Y40K
in Chargen refers the the player choosing to have his character undergo
Immunization (from Shadowtech, p75) against Narcoject toxin. And only if
the GM decides that Immunization is good against other than diseases of
bacterial origin. (The text isn't to clear.))
Third, yes, the edges/flaws system needs a fair amount of GM supervision.
Deal, or don't allow it.
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:04:25 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Sorta OT again] My AD&D Game and Thanks
On Wednesday, July 23, 1997 05:44, Bull[SMTP:chaos@*****.COM] wrote:
> After that, i led them into Keep On The Borderlands, and they went a
> dungeon crawling...;] They had a blast fighting monsters and getting
> treasure, and one of them even got a +1 dagger tonight. he thought that
> getting a magic dagger was the coolest thing...
OTOH, doing Keep on the Borderland with an experienced group of players,
under AD&D can be a different kind of fun! (We had a blast, but the writers
had never imagined that the PCs would use tactics......)
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:56:10 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 12:32 PM 7/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Boxing is a bad example. I dunno about judo. But I fence, and a touch, even
>in foil or saber, where a touch is considered to be a lethal or
>debilitating strike, the first touch will often occur within a few seconds.
True, but that's not unarmed combat, now is it? And you're proving my
point. Fights end quickly, and the only reason that no one dies is because
of padding, dulled tips, face masks, etc.
>(The touch might be disallowed because of right-of-way, which is the judges
>way of saying you're *both* dead, but I digress.) Or Japanese-style sword
>dueling.
In your example, again, the only thing that keeps the competitors from
being killed is a suit of armor and non-live blade, other wise, the fight
would be over very quickly.
Oh, btw, I fence as well, and the weight that the tips of foils are set for
isn't necessarily enough to cause a serious wound, or even penetrate heavy
clothe.
Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/
The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton
Gencon count down: 14 days
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:20:01 -0700
Reply-To: hernandez@********.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: hernandez <hernandez@********.COM>
Subject: Re: SR-type movies (was: A Li'l Ole Question)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> |
> | |Hope you have a laser-disk player, cuz that's the only format the
> | |director's cut comes in (I've been looking for the VHS version off
> | |and on for the last 4 years).
> |
> | It's available on VHS over on this side of the pond.
> | But that's only because no-one has Video disk players over here...
> |
> | There's no market for it....
> |
> | Shame you use NTSC and we use PAL, innit?
> | :)
>
> Aaaarrrrgh!! <sound of head banging against wall>
>
> -David
They do make Multisystem VCR's which can use PAL NTSC(both types) and
SECAM.
MoonShadow
In the begining Man created God;
and in the image of Man created he him
hernandez@********.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:21:51 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Collins" <scollins@**.UML.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Toxin Rules
In-Reply-To: <199707231330.HAA02356@******>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Wed, 23 Jul 1997, David Buehrer wrote:
->Jonathan Hurley wrote:
->|
->[snip: toxin example]
->|
->| So what happens if he gets two successes against the toxin? Is he
->still "in contact" with it on the next round?
->
->Okay, it doesn't say in the book. But my ruling is that you're still
->in contact with it if it's entering your system on a continuous
->basis. For the guy that takes a bite out of the poisoned burger
->that's his only contact with it. If he were to get sprayed by a fair
->ammount, so that more of the stuff is seeping through his skin after
->the initiatal contact, then he would have to make another role.
->Ditto if he fell in a vat of it. Or if it was entering his system
->constantly through an IV tube.
->
->If he somehow ingested a lot of it (drank a whole glass of poison)
->then I'd rule that he'd have to make more than one resistance test.
->
actually i would think you would still be in contact with until either
gives some kind of antidote or your body is able to metabolize and ger
it out of your system. 24 hours at least so if the onset time is less
than that then you would probably have to make multiple damage
resistance rolls. With some toxins, most heavy metals for example once
they have entered into the blood streem you cannot get rid of them and
so they're fatal in a pretty short time (you have to keep making rolls
to resist damage until it eventually kills you) for an example of this
see the movie DOA with Dennis Quaid and Meg Ryan someone slips some
Mercury into a drink of his leaving him only about 24hours to live
with his condition steadily worsening. speaking of which that would
make a pretty good SR plot as well johnson has been poisoned with no
cure and has 24hours to live. he hires the runners to help him find
out who did it. the only problem is they don't get paid unless they
can do it before he dies.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:35:12 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
On Wednesday, July 23, 1997 12:56, Michael
Broadwater[SMTP:mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM] wrote:
> At 12:32 PM 7/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >Boxing is a bad example. I dunno about judo. But I fence, and a touch,
even
> >in foil or saber, where a touch is considered to be a lethal or
> >debilitating strike, the first touch will often occur within a few
seconds.
>
> True, but that's not unarmed combat, now is it? And you're proving my
> point. Fights end quickly, and the only reason that no one dies is
because
> of padding, dulled tips, face masks, etc.
>
> >(The touch might be disallowed because of right-of-way, which is the
judges
> >way of saying you're *both* dead, but I digress.) Or Japanese-style
sword
> >dueling.
>
> In your example, again, the only thing that keeps the competitors from
> being killed is a suit of armor and non-live blade, other wise, the fight
> would be over very quickly.
>
> Oh, btw, I fence as well, and the weight that the tips of foils are set
for
> isn't necessarily enough to cause a serious wound, or even penetrate
heavy
> clothe.
>
I was agreein that fights are over very shortly. And, yes, fencing touches
aren't usually heavy enough to penentrate cloth. But I've seen people break
blades against anther people.
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:45:09 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Discworld novels
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 23 Jul 1997 04:45:36 PDT."
<33D5EEE0.D29@*******.uni-tuebingen.de>
>I just don't know what Discworld has to do in a ShadowRun Mailing List,
>but I'd be happy if someone would inform me if there's anything new
>about that Discworld RPG.
Well, my local game store doesn't have it, but hopefully they'll get
GURPS:Discworld when it comes out.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 12:04:40 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gossamer <kajohnson@*******.TEC.WI.US>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>> Well, I never had to fight for my life, but yes, I have been in a
>> couple of fights up to now...
When you're in hth combat, death is on the line, and the combatants are a
disparate levels, a fight usually lasts 2, maybe 3 blows...
When death is not on the line, but you really want to hurt someone (most of my
fights are in this category), again, they last 2 or 3 blows... The martial art
that I studied (Koppo) focuses on accupressure, nerve strikes, joint locks, and
bone breaking techniques. I've been in 5 fights in this category, and they
were not pretty. They were very fast. Again, combatants are of disparate
levels. My usual targets are elbows and eyes. (In case anyone's curious, I
was in the US Marine infantry for 4 years, and that is a wierd realm... I'm
much healthier now)
When you're not seek to damage someone permanently, it gets a lot tougher.
When I am faced with this type of fight, I utilize Rabbit style Kung Fu (turn
and run, really fast).
>Boxing is a bad example. I dunno about judo. But I fence, and a touch,
>even in foil or saber, where a touch is considered to be a lethal or
>debilitating strike, the first touch will often occur within a few seconds.
>(The touch might be disallowed because of right-of-way, which is the judges
>way of saying you're *both* dead, but I digress.) Or Japanese-style sword
>dueling. Basically, the opponents stare at each other until they think they
>see an opening, and strike. Since striking creates an opening, the other
>strikes as well. The faster hits, the slower *dies.*
I agree with all this, now I'd like to add my own gift to the discussion:
Perspective.
Please keep in mind that in SR, if you have a 6 in a skill, that means you're
an expert. If you have an 8 you're Awesome!!!! And above that level of skill,
the game mechanic goes a bit wierd.
If you've got a 4, you're decent and something, and with a 3, you could make a
living at it...
If a Grand Master of OOlong-Poo (skill 8) who has been perfecting his art for
over a decade fights with Joe Commando who knows how to fight (skill 5). Joe
should get his ass handed to him...
I think that if you keep in mind the *intended meaning* of the numbers
involved, the outcomes of these hth combats is perfectly reasonably, IMNSHO.
When fighters of disparate skill levels are fighting in a desparate situation,
the fights will be over very quickly with the more highly skilled fighter
prevailing...
I think that that's horribly realistic.
Gossamer
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:41:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Collins" <scollins@**.UML.EDU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <01BC9764.854BEA80@********.u96.stevens-tech.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 23 Jul 1997, Jonathan Hurley wrote:
->On Wednesday, July 23, 1997 04:11, Simon T.
->Sailer[SMTP:Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT] wrote:
->> > Have you ever been in a real fight (one where either or both sides
->> > now how to fight)? It is over that quickly.
->>
->> Well, I never had to fight for my life, but yes, I have been in a
->> couple of fights up to now...
->> And I disagree totally. Sure, A fight COULD be over that soon, I one
->> of the two scores a lucky hit, or gets to hold his opponent in a
->> position where he can't escape, but chances are, especially if both
->> use rather strike and kick techniques than grabs and chokes, that the
->> fight will last about half a minute at last. Just wach boxing...
->> They fight for several minutes... even in Judo, the fight lasts
->> longer than just a few seconds.
->
->Boxing is a bad example. I dunno about judo. But I fence, and a touch, even
->in foil or saber, where a touch is considered to be a lethal or
->debilitating strike, the first touch will often occur within a few seconds.
->(The touch might be disallowed because of right-of-way, which is the judges
->way of saying you're *both* dead, but I digress.) Or Japanese-style sword
->dueling. Basically, the opponents stare at each other until they think they
->see an opening, and strike. Since striking creates an opening, the other
->strikes as well. The faster hits, the slower *dies.*
->
->In any martial contest where killing/crippling blows are not disallowed,
->fights are over with the first or second successful strike.
->
->--
->Quicksilver rides again
->--------------
->Those who would give up a little freedom for security
->deserve neither freedom nor security
->-Benjamin Franklin
->Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
->Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
->
The key here is definately skill levels. I have recently taken up
fighting in the SCA. For those of you who don't know it the SCA is a
medieval recreation group. By fighting i mean dressing up in a fairly
clode replica of medieval westers european armor and engaging in
combat with other similarly clad folks using weapons made out of
Rattan poles. In general if there is even the slightest difference in
ability then the better fighter will land his first or second shot for
a killing blow. Elapsed time 2-3 seconds. If they're very closely
matched then it can last as long as several minutes. where things
change is in a group meele it will only take 2-3 seconds to kill an
opponent but it will probably take you 10 to 20 seconds before you can
get a shot on them because you cannot leave yourself open to attack
from his friends. So far in about 20 meeles i have been killed
everytime and only killed 1 person. He was a knight (that mean he is
in the top 1% of fighters in the world) but it was a lucky shot he
threw a shot at someone else in my line and didn't notice me lining
him up with my pole arm. 1 on 1 with the same guy i think i have hit
him only once when he didn't let me and he can hit me at will.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:11:17 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Skye Comstock <bilbo@****.NWLINK.COM>
Subject: Re: [Sorta OT again] My AD&D Game and Thanks
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970723054752.347f25d6@*****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>Is AD&D really so bad?
Never played it. Don't really know. ;) SR is/was my first RPG... The
only experience I have in AD&D is in the MUD's and whatnot, with
hitpoints, DEX, CON, CHA, STR, etc... MUDding was fun, but addictive
and I refused to believe it was based on D&DF stuff... :]
>However, remember this. Most of us are in this hobby of gaming because of
>D&D. I started with basic D&D when I was 10, GMing for my 9 year old
>cousin and my 7 year old brother (And occasionally my Mom when she wasn't
>too busy). Sure, adventures then were nothing but enormous trap and
>monster filled dungeons, and I used SOOOO much graph papaer drawing maze
>after maze, but it was terrific fun.
I played video games when I was 10. ;)
>How many of you have, with whatever game you're playing now, be it AD&D,
>SR, or even Vampire just gone back to the old days and had a good old
>fashioned Dungeon romp? Where you stopped taking yourself and your
>character and your game so seriously, and just enjoyed the thrill of
>gnoshing heads in true powergaming munchkinous fashion?
I don't have any good ol' days. <g>
>For SR, simply do a bug hunt. Put the characters in a vast underground
>Hive, and let the lead and manabolts fly.
How about a dinosaur hunt? ;)
>Plus, I forgot how long it can take when you have to explain things like
>what "Constitution" and "Charisma" mean...:] And what is a d4
and how do
>you read the bloody thing?? :] (One of the funniest things was when I
>dumped my dice on the table and said ok, grab 4 d6's to start, and one of
>the guys said: "Sure, no problem. Ummmm... What's a d6?" :]:]
How do you read a D4 anyway? Is it the number missing on the die, or
what? Why can't they just put a number on it... instead of 3? :P
>After that, i led them into Keep On The Borderlands, and they went a
>dungeon crawling...;] They had a blast fighting monsters and getting
>treasure, and one of them even got a +1 dagger tonight. he thought that
>getting a magic dagger was the coolest thing...
Give one of them a Holy Avenger. :]
>We need more eager, innocent newbies playing games today. Those of us who
>have been around a while have gotten too old and cynical for our own good.
>We've gotten into fighting over rules, and numbers, and namecalling
>(especially on this list lately) and it seems that most of us have lost the
>reason that we started playing these games in the first place. To have
>fun, and to be transported into a world that was much cooler, and more fun
>than this one.
Bah, I hate you, all my groups have been crap. ;)
-Skye, "Member and President of Sucky Groups For Life Inc."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:00:30 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Fencing and melee combat
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Woo Hoo something that I know a whole lot about;
First in foil and Sabre by definition an attack is a forward moving
action "by the arm" no neccessarily by the feet. I saw some very pretty
foil at the last Nat'l championships I attended where both fencers were
moving down the strip at a dead run and the retreating fencer got an
attack in while moving backwards. For you foilists it was a pickup flick
to the back going backwards (It was Micheal Marx BTW).
In epee there is no right of way and the double touch kind of implies that
both are dead.
Now to start the furious debate;
IMHO epee is more "realistic" than the other two. Neither foil or sabre
allow for double touches. Except for a couple of years ago when the USFA
tried it for a few months (very bad idea). Epee focuses on getting your
hit first and avoiding the other's touch. Now, olympic style epee has a
big realism point against in that many times the attacker after getting
his touch will still get drilled by the defender. I know that was a
favorite move of mine, and very painful if your opponent is a hard
charger also.
Now if dueling were to happen IRL I think that you would see a mix of
styles. It would be very epee like in the blade control and timing,
both opponents would spend much more time defending, going in for the
kill only after the opponent has made a mistake. But, the defensive
moves would be much more foil oriented, much more tempo oriented.
well that's my $0.02.
I suppose we might want to go private if this gets way out of hand.
Regards
-Bill
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 14:38:50 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: Fencing and melee combat
On Wednesday, July 23, 1997 14:00, William Monroe
Ashe[SMTP:wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU] wrote:
> IMHO epee is more "realistic" than the other two. Neither foil or sabre
> allow for double touches. Except for a couple of years ago when the USFA
> tried it for a few months (very bad idea). Epee focuses on getting your
> hit first and avoiding the other's touch. Now, olympic style epee has a
> big realism point against in that many times the attacker after getting
> his touch will still get drilled by the defender. I know that was a
> favorite move of mine, and very painful if your opponent is a hard
> charger also.
Well, you have to remember the periods that the various weapons are trying
to simulate. Foil simulates a period wher duels were fought to the death.
Thus, the target area consists of areas where a single strike would be
crippling. Saber simulates a period where duels were fought on horseback to
the point where a combatant could no longer fight. Hence, the target are
adds the arms. Epee simulates a period where duels were fought to first
blood, thus a touch anywhere counts.
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:45:19 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:35 PM 7/23/97 -0400, Jonathan Hurley wrote:
>I was agreein that fights are over very shortly. And, yes, fencing touches
>aren't usually heavy enough to penentrate cloth. But I've seen people break
>blades against anther people.
True. And it seems I was just argueing your point for no apparent reason.
:) Sorry.
Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/
The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton
Gencon count down: 14 days
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 14:54:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Collins" <scollins@**.UML.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Sorta OT again] My AD&D Game and Thanks
In-Reply-To: <v03007800affbf8b47049@[204.96.67.169]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 23 Jul 1997, Skye Comstock wrote:
->I played video games when I was 10. ;)
and later said
->I don't have any good ol' days. <g>
->
Gee when I was 10 no one had ever heard the name Atari, and video
games were called Pinball. But there was this hot new thing called
pong. It was sorta like playing tennis on a television. Then again D&D
didn't really exist then it was called chainmail.
I think I'm starting to feel old now
->How do you read a D4 anyway? Is it the number missing on the die, or
->what? Why can't they just put a number on it... instead of 3? :P
You read the number that is at either the top of the pyramid it will
be the same for all 3 sides showing. sometimes they put it on the top
and sometimes they put it on bottom but it will be the only number in
the same position on all three visable sides. alternatively look at
the bottom side, the number rolled will be missing from that side.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:06:20 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---Brett Borger wrote:
>
> Also, Am I wrong in recalling that most Bug spirits Threat ratings
> were something like Force/4??!?!?!?!!
Actually I believe that listing is in the format of
threat/professional ratings. So the spirit's threat rating would be
equal to force, and their professional rating is 4 (meaning a fight to
the death).
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 16:10:09 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <199707231611.MAA04736@****.provide.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
.> > What Armor? Immunity doesn't apply to melee weapons.
>
> I wasn't talking about immunity to normal weapons, I was talking
> about natural armor. Check out their Body stat again (for true
Okay,without a book infront of me, but I doubt that armor is enough
to shrug off every PC's attack (I did have the book during the
combat). I know it wasn't enough to shrug THIS PC's attack.
> Yes, you are forgetting all about Threat Rating for the True Form.
> IIRC, the Threat Rating for ANY spirit is equal to its force. I
BUg spirits break a lot of rules....I'm pretty sure I saw a Force/4
rating, but again, no book (but then, you're in the same boat)
> or so True Form, the spirit would have at least a 6 Strength.
> That's the maximum non-cybered rating for a human.
It doesn't matter if the bug's strength never came into the picture,
which it didn't.
> I think your players should thank their lucky stars that you didn't
> know all about what makes an Insect Spirit just plain harsh! Just
> think what would have happened if I GMed that
> session....Muwahahahaha!
Well, that depends on which rules are right. The only ones that
matters is the Threat Rating.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 16:13:11 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
In-Reply-To: <19970723.122015.17119.7.lobo1@****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> >Also, Am I wrong in recalling that most Bug spirits Threat ratings
> >were something like Force/4??!?!?!?!!
> Oh, boy. I remember the last time we had this discussion with Brian
> Allison:) What it says is Threat/Professional Rating: Force/4, which
> is interpreted as Threat Rating=Force, Professional Rating=4.
AH HA!!!! THank YOU! This makes life much more interesting!
<EGMG>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:38:19 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---"Simon T. Sailer" wrote:
>
> I don't think there are actually two forms of the ITNW power... One
> for the queens and one for the rest.
They are two seperate and distinct powers.
BBB, page 218, lists Immunity to Normal Weapons as a power and states:
"This power gives a being an armor rating equal tp double its Essence
when resisting damage from ordinary weapons. Against elemental damage,
the effect is halved." This would included ranged, melee, and all
other mundane attacks.
BBB, page 219, details manifestation as a powers and states: "In
addition, manifested spirits have the power of immunity to normal
weapons against ranged combat attacks, for these do not carry the full
'charge' of the attacker's will. Against such attacks, spirits have
'armor' equal to twice their force."
You'll find likewise descriptions of both powers in PAoNA and PAoE.
Grimmy also shows the varied forms of a Free Spirit (Animal Form,
Human Form, and Hidden Life) as having Immunity to Normal weapons, and
references to page 218 of the BBB. This power is above and beyond the
immunity to ranged attacks that comes with Manifestation.
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 15:51:26 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Joshua T Brown <spamquat@****.COM>
Subject: London SB Photos....
Photos from the London Sourcebook???
Far as I know, they're still hanging in Jordan Weisman's Kitchen.....
That makes for one of my interesting SR stories....
About 3 summers ago, a close friend of mine got a job as a live-in nanny
for a well-to-do businessman in the Near West Chicago Suburbs (we were
living in River Forest at the time.) At the time, I had been playing SR
for about 2-3 years, and was preparing for yet another group excursion to
Gen Con. One night Ashlyn invites me over to her employers house to have
dinner and keep her company, and she kept being rather "cryptic". I
arrived, said Hi to the kids, had a pleasant evening. Upon getting the
"grand tour" of the house, I noticed a familiar picture on one of the
walls. In a frame on a wall near the kitchen, I saw the Universal
Brotherhood - UK ad staring at me, and next to it was the picture of the
elven maid and ork butler from the same Sourcebook. I was immediately
curious, and Ashlyn told me with an impish grin that the house I had been
in that evening was that of none other than Jordan Weisman, one of the
FASA owners, and SR creators. It seems that he needed the help because he
was travelling all over opening up new Battletech Centers that summer...
I guess living in Chicago *DOES* have its perks....<smirk>
C-Y'all at Gen Con! (I'll at least stop by GRANITE's game, even though I
couldn't get in.... not pre-regging does that.... D'oh!)
==============================================================
The Kumquat -- Josh Brown -- Kumquat@*****.com -- Spamquat@****.com --
Shadowrun Page Still Under Development -- Coming Soon!
"Support Whirled Peas" -- <smirk> -- "Whatever, Man" --
"Woo Hoo!" --
....Don't hate me Because I'm... ahh, screw it, hate me. <smirk>
==============================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 16:32:17 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Fencing and melee combat
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> IMHO epee is more "realistic" than the other two. Neither foil or sabre
> allow for double touches. Except for a couple of years ago when the USFA
> tried it for a few months (very bad idea). Epee focuses on getting your
> hit first and avoiding the other's touch. Now, olympic style epee has a
> big realism point against in that many times the attacker after getting
> his touch will still get drilled by the defender. I know that was a
> favorite move of mine, and very painful if your opponent is a hard
> charger also.
>
> Now if dueling were to happen IRL I think that you would see a mix of
> styles. It would be very epee like in the blade control and timing,
> both opponents would spend much more time defending, going in for the
> kill only after the opponent has made a mistake. But, the defensive
> moves would be much more foil oriented, much more tempo oriented.
>
Agree hole haretedly, I'v alays thought eppe as more realistic that the
other to, thought they're all fun!
> I suppose we might want to go private if this gets way out of hand.
>
>
> Regards
>
> -Bill
>
don't you dare, unless you let me in on it! ;Þ
Caun :}
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 23:23:47 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <01BC9764.854BEA80@********.u96.stevens-tech.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In message <01BC9764.854BEA80@********.u96.stevens-tech.edu>, Jonathan
Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU> writes
>Boxing is a bad example. I dunno about judo. But I fence, and a touch, even
>in foil or saber, where a touch is considered to be a lethal or
>debilitating strike, the first touch will often occur within a few seconds.
>(The touch might be disallowed because of right-of-way, which is the judges
>way of saying you're *both* dead, but I digress.) Or Japanese-style sword
>dueling. Basically, the opponents stare at each other until they think they
>see an opening, and strike. Since striking creates an opening, the other
>strikes as well. The faster hits, the slower *dies.*
Knife fighting. The version I was taught (by a psycho RGJ sergeant
major) was that you waited for your enemy to attack, or feinted to
provoke a counter: when he tried to attack you, you retreated and cut
across the back of his knife hand.
Repeat as necessary. When he staggers (because a good cut across the
back of the hand will cause a man exerting himself to pass out in a
frighteningly short time) close and cripple or kill him.
Ten, fifteen seconds tops: less if the enemy clutches his wound and
cries out in pain, rather than fighting (if he does that kill him right
away).
If you're down to hacking at the enemy with a knife, you're probably
outnumbered, and time favours him rather than you (his reinforcements
will get there first, and they might still have ammunition). You win
fast, or not at all.
>In any martial contest where killing/crippling blows are not disallowed,
>fights are over with the first or second successful strike.
Yep. Any time you involve blades, close-up fights get very fast and
decisive.
--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 23:25:41 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <01BC976D.3FF85500@********.u96.stevens-tech.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In message <01BC976D.3FF85500@********.u96.stevens-tech.edu>, Jonathan
Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU> writes
>I was agreein that fights are over very shortly. And, yes, fencing touches
>aren't usually heavy enough to penentrate cloth. But I've seen people break
>blades against anther people.
I once had someone break a foil over my head during a match. Mostly
because I was so surprised at what he was doing, I didn't counter...
>
--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 18:03:26 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John Dukes <dukes@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Chargen
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> have "overlooked" it. The description of astral perception as an Edge
is
>> this: "The character can see into the astral plane through astral
>> perception. However, characters cannot astrally project or make use of any
>> magical skills without the appropriate magic priority allocation. Astrally
>> active characters have all the normal abilities of astral perception and can
>> learn the aura reading skill (p.96 AWAKENINGS)." I am not advocating that
>
>John, you answered your own question. See the part that says "without
>the appropriate magic priority allocation?" That is the requirement
>for base magic ability. You have to spend points to be able to use
>magic, i.e. Priority A or B (or C if you use minor adepts). This
>translates to 20, 15, or various on the build point system.
>It is quite simple, really.
>
The sentence says "However, characters cannot astrally project or make use
of any magical skills withough the appropriate magic priority allocation."
Its referring to magical skills such as sorcery, conjuring, etc. Sure, the
percieving guy cant throw a spell, but he CAN spot the Elemental lurking in
astral space 30 ft away.
Yes it IS simple, but the question is can a complete mundane take the
magical talents. I've heard yes and no as answers.
John
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 16:09:55 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---Jonathan Hurley wrote:
>
>
> Oh, and ItNW doesn't work against a certain kind of ranged weapon,
bows.
> (Not x-bows, thought.)
Actually ITNW as a power works against all mundane attacks (fist,
sword, club, gun, bow, etc.). The limited form of ITNW that comes with
Manifestion, however, works as you've described.
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 18:12:21 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Joshua T Brown <spamquat@****.COM>
Subject: Hallucinogens in SR
Here's a question to throw out to the list and watch get ripped to
shreds....
(I've always viewed starting a new thread around here as the Email
equivalent to throwing a bloody steak into a pit filled with underfed
rottweilers...<smirk>)
Any ideas on the game mechanics/effects for the use of hallucinogens in
SR? Peyote, LSD, Shrooms... How hard might they be to acquire? How might
they affect Magicians, especially shamans? (Keeping in mind the native
belief in peyote as a method of inducing visions and becoming closer to
the spirits) What nasty side affects might certain hallucinogens have
since the Awakening? There's lots of evil Gm fodder here....
Welp, off to finish catching up on my unread mails.... I'm down to under
900 now....
<smirk>
<throws in the bloody steak>
CATCH!
==============================================================
The Kumquat -- Josh Brown -- Kumquat@*****.com -- Spamquat@****.com --
Shadowrun Page Still Under Development -- Coming Soon!
"Support Whirled Peas" -- <smirk> -- "Whatever, Man" --
"Woo Hoo!" --
....Don't hate me Because I'm... ahh, screw it, hate me. <smirk>
==============================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 18:20:24 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Chargen
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:03 PM 7/23/97 -0500, John wrote:
>Yes it IS simple, but the question is can a complete mundane take the
>magical talents. I've heard yes and no as answers.
The answer is no...
[pg. 33, Shadowrun Companion, bottom of page under the heading "Magical Talent"]
"Only magically active characters with active magic ratings of 1 or higher
can purchase any of the Magical Talent Edges listed on the table above. A
character whose magic rating drops below 1 loses all Magical Talent edges."
Pretty cut and dry, don't you think? First off, a character must have a
magic rating. In order to have a magic rating, said character must have
bought Magician or Adept with priorities or points (depending on how you
choose to make your characters). In order to have a magic rating above one,
said Magician or Adept must have at least 1 full point of essence.
Now where confusion runs rampant is when people say...
"But here's what (whoever) wanted!" or "It should be this way!"
This requires players to accept non-canon rules. If you argue rules from a
non-canon standpoint, you aren't arguing the rules of Shadowrun. If you
wish to use an alternate (non-canon) view, then please do not confuse it for
canon and do not argue that it is.
Even by Steve's rules, the character would've had to have put C priority (or
D if metahuman) into magic in order to get one of the Magical Talents (which
wouldn't have been edges under Steve's rules). Also, said character would
no longer be mundane as he would've put points into magic.
So, once again, the answer is no. Mundanes can't use the Magical Talent
Edge. There's the quote from the book which explains it, there's the
reasoning behind the words, there's the answer.
TopCat's right again ;)
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 18:20:26 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John Dukes <dukes@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Chargen
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
><buzzer> Oh, I'm sorry, that's not the correct answer, but you've been a
>great contestant and we have some wonderful consolation prizes for you...
>
>Actually, that is _exactly_ what the official rules state. Under "Magical
>Talent", p33
>
> Only magically active characters with Magic Ratings of 1 or
>higher can purchase any of the Magical Talent Edges. . .
>
>This is contrary to the intentions of the writer (Steve Kenson), who
>intended that only a character who has not already selected Magic
>Priority could get _one_ of the Magical Talent Edges (so a character
>without any selected Magic Priority could get Astral Sight OR the ability
>to conjure watchers OR the ability to cast a _single_ spell OR etc, etc)
>
As I have said previously in this thread there is no such section in my copy
of the book. Perhaps I've somehow got ahold of an unedited copy. Does anyone
else have a copy with this text missing?
>On which point, Magical Talents or Natural Immunity? I just demonstrated
>Magical Talents, and if you'll read closely you'll see that Natural
>Immunity is only good against a _natural_ disease or toxin, so unless you
>can point out a passage where it states that Narcoject is a
>naturally-ocurring substance. . . You can have an immunity to hemlock, or
>nightshade, cyanide (it _does_ occur naturally, after all:) or against
>VITAS or the common cold, but not against any man-made poison or
>biowarfare agent, which is explicitly stated in the approriate text.
>
True enough, Narcoject isnt the best example (thats what I get for listing a
toxin off the top of my head).
At any rate, yes, the system can be abused.
John
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 19:27:37 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hallucinogens in SR
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:12 PM 7/23/97 -0500, Joshua T Brown wrote these timeless words:
>Here's a question to throw out to the list and watch get ripped to
>shreds....
>(I've always viewed starting a new thread around here as the Email
>equivalent to throwing a bloody steak into a pit filled with underfed
>rottweilers...<smirk>)
>
>Any ideas on the game mechanics/effects for the use of hallucinogens in
>SR? Peyote, LSD, Shrooms... How hard might they be to acquire? How might
>they affect Magicians, especially shamans? (Keeping in mind the native
>belief in peyote as a method of inducing visions and becoming closer to
>the spirits) What nasty side affects might certain hallucinogens have
>since the Awakening? There's lots of evil Gm fodder here....
>
Well, if their Indian Shamans, they just have a good old time popping
shrooms and stuff, and it definately helps them have "vision quests" :]
Other characters I'd be more inclined to make them roleplay and deal with
addiction, depending on how serious it was and how I was feeling a t the
time...
>Welp, off to finish catching up on my unread mails.... I'm down to under
>900 now....
><smirk>
><throws in the bloody steak>
>CATCH!
>
Hey now, thanks!
Of course, considering my impending Wendigo-ism (??:)), I LIKE Bloody
Meat... gee, DA, Dvixen, Spike, Gurth... You're all starting to look
tasty...
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 17:54:32 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: [Sorta OT again] My AD&D Game and Thanks
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Skye said:
> I don't have any good ol' days. <g>
>
I hear you man! us kids don't got no experiance right?
> How do you read a D4 anyway? Is it the number missing on the die, or
> what? Why can't they just put a number on it... instead of 3? :P
>
sincerly hope you kidding d;^D
Caun :}
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:00:15 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970723024749.006b7f0c@****.lis.ab.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> >Why would a sammy have a willpower that low? He'd be wiped out by any
> >mage in fractions of a second... A willpower of 6 is standard for all
> >the sammies in my team as well as for all the sammies I ever thought
> >of as npc's...
Let's not get into THIS thread AGAIN, please? The flames have only just
died down from the last time...
> Therefore... a willpower of 6 would not be 'standard', but closer to
> 'exceptional', or 'HolyShit!'
Agreed... I've played MAGES with lower willpower than that. Admittedly,
they got headaches more often, but hey... :)
The point is, be fair to your GM. A sammy has to have SOME weakness,
else the GM has to throw so much at your party to hurt it that all the
other team members will go down even quicke. My standard rule is "Don't
bother shooting a sammy, don't bother tossing spells at a mage"
Lady Jestyr
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 18:09:22 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Hallucinogens in SR
In-Reply-To: <19970723.181225.10550.1.Spamquat@****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 18:12 7/23/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Here's a question to throw out to the list and watch get ripped to
>shreds....
>(I've always viewed starting a new thread around here as the Email
>equivalent to throwing a bloody steak into a pit filled with underfed
>rottweilers...<smirk>)
mmm...food.
>Any ideas on the game mechanics/effects for the use of hallucinogens in
>SR? Peyote, LSD, Shrooms... How hard might they be to acquire? How might
>they affect Magicians, especially shamans? (Keeping in mind the native
>belief in peyote as a method of inducing visions and becoming closer to
>the spirits) What nasty side affects might certain hallucinogens have
>since the Awakening? There's lots of evil Gm fodder here....
Wordmans drug list has a large list of such stuff..its on his web page
(Wherever that is.) and in the Compiled Nagee, and in Running Gear. I
think it uses some of the Shadowtech drug rules, and since I don't own
Shadowtech, I don't understand much of it..
><throws in the bloody steak>
>CATCH!
Down Bull! You can have 3/4, I'll take the other quarter.. :)
-Adam
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
GC3.1 GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 20:16:33 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Chargen
On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 18:20:26 -0500 John Dukes <dukes@*******.NET> writes:
>As I have said previously in this thread there is no such section in
>my copy
>of the book. Perhaps I've somehow got ahold of an unedited copy. Does
>anyone
>else have a copy with this text missing?
In that case, here's what appears on pg 33, bottom left corner of the
page, under 'Magical Talent'
Value: Variable
Only magically active characters with active Magic Ratings of 1
or higher can purchase any of the Magical Talent Edges listed on the
table above. Acharacter whose Magic Rating drops below 1 automatically
loses all Magical Talent Edges.
Magical Talent appears underneath Magic Resistance.
>True enough, Narcoject isnt the best example (thats what I get for
>listing a
>toxin off the top of my head).
:)
>At any rate, yes, the system can be abused.
Any system can be abused, flexibility only makes it easier to abuse a
system by leaving more possible loopholes. Nothing is fool-proof, there
are more than enough fools around to prove that:) The truth is that I can
turn out characters that are just as abusive of the rules no matter what
creation system I use (I can create a downright scary-a$$ human samurai
with the Sum-to-Ten system, and the one I make using the standard system
is only slightly less scary) I can do just as bad with the point system,
maybe. Any system can be abused, and the fact is that a character created
under standard rules can be just as abusive as one created under house or
optional rules systems. Yadda, yadda, yadda:) And I've seen several Troll
Sammies that were perfectly legal according to the interpretation of the
rules that I held at the time (this was not necessarily the correct
interpretation, just the one I happened to hold at the time) that I have
no other word for except "munchkin":)
--
-Canthros, who has rambled far too long on a fairly simple point
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 17:30:47 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Chargen
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---John Dukes wrote:
>
> Nonsense. I have thoroughly read the point system. I just reread the
entire
> section and couldnt find a single sentence saying anything about base
> magical ability being a requirement for taking magical edges. I
couldnt find
> a "Magical Talents" section anywhere in the Companion. I realize it
makes
> sense for the low essence samauri to be unable to use magical edges
however
> the (official) rules do not state that he is unable to take them.
Please
> feel free to post a page number for the section "Magical Talents" I
seem to
> have "overlooked" it.
Following is a post from Steve Kenson, who wrote for the Shadowrun
Companion and Awakenings In it he explainins errors in the FASA
publishing of the Magical Edges. Apparently the final publishing
didn't come out as he'd intended when designing them in the first
place.
I know this post has circled around the list a few times, but I
figured I'd throw it out again since this thread seems to be heading
in that direction anyways.
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!
Magicians, Adepts and the Build Point System
Taken from a ShadowRN post by Steve Kenson
------------------------------------------------------------------------
MAGICAL ABILITY BREAKDOWN
These are the options for magical ability that I use with the
Build-Point System presented in the Shadowrun Companion. People will
recognize some of these levels of ability as Magical Edges from the
Edges & Flaws section and it might help to clarify how those Edges &
Flaws were intended (by me, at least) to work.
GENERAL RULES
All characters with any kind of magical ability (i.e., anyone who has
spent more than 0 Build Points on magical ability) have a Magic
Attribute, which begins at 6. These characters are collectively known
as "Talented" or "Gifted." ("Magician" is used in my
campaigns as a
generic term for Talented characters with the highest level of magical
ability.) All Talented characters are subject to the rules governing
the Magic Attribute, including loss due to Essence Loss and Deadly
Wounds. Such characters are also all subject to the geasa rules due to
Magic loss.
All Talented characters must follow a tradition (although they may not
always KNOWINGLY do so). The tradition is chosen at character creation
and may not be changed.
MAGICIAN (20 points)
This level gives the character access to full use all of the magical
skills and abilities of his chosen tradition. Generally this will be
either Hermetic (mage) or Shamanic (shaman), but there are other
traditions available to offer slightly different abilities, such as
Nature Magic, Voudoun and so forth.
ADEPT (15 points)
At this level, the character has access to ONE significant area of
magical ability from his chosen tradition. This could be full use of a
single magical skill or partial use of all skills and abilities.
Adepts can bond or use foci that are applicable to their magical
skills and abilities. The character can choose ONE of the following
options:
Conjuring Adept: The character can make full use of the Conjuring
skill, but is considered mundane for other magical skills or
abilities, this includes applications of Conjuring that require Astral
Perception or Projection (including metamagic). The character can bond
or use foci that are applicable to the Conjuring skill.
Elemental Adept: This option is only open to mages. The character is
"aligned" with one of the four hermetic elements: Earth, Air, Fire or
Water. The character can use the Sorcery skill to cast spells aligned
to that element and Conjuring to summon spirits aligned with that
element as well as watchers. The adept can astrally perceive and
project. For all other uses of magical skill, the adept is considered
a mundane.
Physical Adept: The adept "grounds" all of his magical ability into
his body. He may "buy" physical adept powers using his Magic Rating,
but is considered a mundane for the use of all magical skills.
Physical adepts cannot astral perceive unless they purchase the power
that allows them to do so.
Shamanic Adept: This option is only open to shamans. The adept can use
Sorcery to cast spells for which their totem grants a bonus and
Conjuring to summon spirits for which the totem grants a bonus. The
adept can also astrally perceive and project. For all other uses of
magical skill, the adept is considered a mundane. Shamanic adepts are
only available for those totems which provide bonuses based on Spell
Category of Spirit Type, not totems that have bonsuses based on things
such as time of day (such as Owl) or no bonuses (such as Coyote).
Sorcery Adept: The character can make full use of the Sorcery skill,
but is considered mundane for other magical skills or abilities, this
includes applications of Sorcery that require Astral Perception
(including metamagic).
MINOR ADEPT (Cost varies)
At this level, the character has PARTIAL access to the use of a
magical skill or ability or full use of a fairly limited skill or
ability. Minor adepts can bond and use foci that affect their areas of
skill and ability.
Astral Adept (5 points): The character can make use of astral
perception and projection, but is considered a mundane for the use of
all magical skills.
Banishing Adept (5 points): The adept can use the Conjuring skill to
attempt to banish any type of spirit. For all other uses of magical
skill and ability, the adept is considered a mundane. He cannot
control spirits, only banish them. The adept does gain a totem bonus,
if shamanic, for banishing the appropriate kind of spirit.
Enchanting Adept (5 points): The adept can make full use of the
Enchanting skill. For all other magical skills and abilities, the
adept is considered a mundane.
Astral Sight Adept (3 points): The adept can use astral perception,
but not astral projection. For the use of magical skills, the adept is
considered a mundane. Note this still means that the adept can learn
the specialization of Sorcery for astral combat, since even mundanes
can do so (see Awakenings).
Spell Adept (varies): The adept can use the Sorcery skill to cast a
single spell. If the spell is eligible to be cast using Ritual
Sorcery, the adept can do this as well. The adept can also provide
Spell Defense against the spell he can cast, but not from any others.
For all other magical skills and abilities, including other uses of
the Sorcery skill, the adept is considered a mundane. He cannot learn
or use any other spells. The cost is based on the type of spell known:
Combat (4 points), Detection (2 points), Health (3 points), Illusion
(3 points) or Manipulation (4 points). The gamemaster may adjust the
cost if the spell is considered especially flexible or weak. The spell
is automatically known at a Force equal to the adept's starting Magic
Rating and can be increased normally by spending Karma.
Spirit Adept (varies): The adept can use the Conjuring skill to summon
a single type of spirit: a specific elemental or nature spirit or a
watcher spirit. The adept follows the normal rules for conjuring the
spirit, but cannot have more than one spirit summoned or bound at a
time. The adept may also attempt to banish or control spirits of the
type he can summon. For all other magical skills and abilities,
including other uses of the Conjuring skill, the adept is considered a
mundane. The cost is based on the type of spirit the adept can summon:
elemental or nature spirit (5 points), or watcher (3 points).
Negamagic Adept (5 points): The adept can use the Sorcery skill to
provide Spell Defense. The number of dice that the adept may allocate
to spell defense is limited to no more than the adept's Magic
Attribute. The adept does not gain the use of Shielding or any other
metamagical abilities on Initiation, only increased Magic and the
ability to allocate more dice to spell defense per turn that comes
with it. For all other magical skills and abilities, including other
uses of the Sorcery skill, the adept is considered a mundane.
NOTES
Gamemasters may have to keep an eye on minor adepts to keep them from
becoming a problem, given their low point cost. Generally speaking,
the Magic Attribute limitation keeps most character concepts from
abusing the option; it's not worth it for a heavily cybered character
to spend 5 points for Negamagic or Banishing ability if his Magic
Attribute is going to be too low to make much use of it.
Minor adepts (like all of the Talented) have to carefully balance the
benefits of cyberware and implants with maintaining their minor
magical ability. Many of them decide it's not worth it to maintain a
magical lifestyle and go the full cyber-route, burning out and
becoming mundanes. In fact, some cyber characters might have had a
minor adept ability once and just never knew about it before they had
stuffed themselves so full of metal and cultured tissue that their
Power went "poof."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Kenson's writing for FASA includes Awakenings and Shadowrun
Companion
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 03:07:39 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Hallucinogens in SR
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970723180922.006da064@****.lis.ab.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 23-Jul-97 wrote Adam J:
>Down Bull! You can have 3/4, I'll take the other quarter.. :)
I want my part too ;]
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 19:10:47 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Hallucinogens in SR
In-Reply-To: <yam7144.1997.136890048@****.amigaworld.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:07 7/24/97 -0500, you wrote:
>At 23-Jul-97 wrote Adam J:
>
>
>>Down Bull! You can have 3/4, I'll take the other quarter.. :)
>
>I want my part too ;]
I already ate mine. Fight with the wendigo :-)
-Adam
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
GC3.1 GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 21:54:39 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Physad Enhanced Centering
In a message dated 97-07-23 07:03:22 EDT, u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK (Spike)
writes:
>
> When mages use centering, they can only use if for a very limited number
of
> things.
>
> They CAN'T use of for ranged combat with guns, for example....
>
> Phys Ads CAN with Enhanced Centering. (That's WHY it's enhanced)
>
>
Actually, IIRC Physical Adepts can use their Centering without anything
additional bought for their Physical Skills (which is subgroup of the Active
Category)...aka, Athletics & Stealth. One might argue Dancing and Yoga even.
Enhanced Centering is required to actually use it for Combat Categories, or
anything else for that matter.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 21:57:41 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Physad Enhanced Centering
In a message dated 97-07-23 09:41:36 EDT, mbernico@****.K12.IL.US (mike
bernico) writes:
>
> just a question on this topic, are there any TN modifiers that enhanced
> centering can't reduce. for example, can it reduce reach modifiers.
>
In theory, it can't remove Totemic Disadvantage Modifiers (like those from
Cat or Snake). It can probably remove/defeat the reach modifiers, but that
is up to the GM in question I would think.
My favorite is getting rid of that damn modifier for the Initiate Shields
usage by the opponent.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 22:06:08 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Physad Enhanced Centering
In a message dated 97-07-23 13:59:48 EDT, lobo1@****.COM (John E Pederson)
writes:
>
> Actually, it's bought by skill category (as outlined in the skill chart
> in SR2). So, two Magic Points allow him to use it for Armed Combat,
> Unarmed Combat, Firearms, Gunnery, Throwing Weapons, Projectile Weapons
> and Demolitions.
Actually, that's note -quite- right. Its' by skill Category...Combat (Armed,
Unarmed, Thrown, Projectile), Technical (Computers, Electronics, Radio
Sciences, etc.), Knowledge (Big List), Language (Bigger List?), B/R (can be
interesting, character can make some big money on the side), Magical (which
allows for the Centering to actually get used in Enchanting and a few other
things)...
> On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:54:22 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>
> <<If he doesn't spend the 2 MP for the power, all he can use it for are
> magical skills: Sorcery, Conjuring, that kind of thing. I don't see
> physads using those on a regular basis, so in itself the Centering power
> is mostly useless for a physad.>>
>
> Actually, Gurth, the Grimmy states that a physad can automatically use
> Centering with Physical Skills.
True, and "standard" centering can be really helpful. The "Astral
Adepts"
(Physical Adepts with Astral Perception in this definition) get to use their
Centering to help them deal with opposable magical elements. Extra Successes
in spirit combat are incredibly helpful.
> <<But consider this: for 2 MP you can reduce the TN for shooting someone
> by taking out the glare penalty caused by the sun reflecting off that
> car. Or get more money from Mr. Johnson by effectively removing his
> distrust of you. This is a pretty powerful ability to have, and if you
> really want it you can think ahead and spend only 4 MP onpowers during
> character generation, then initiate and take the Enhanced Centering power
> immediately when you gain grade 0.>>
>
> Again, agreed:) It just requires a bit of thought to make effective use
> of it. . .
Agree here as well.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 22:10:29 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hallucinogens in SR
On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 19:10:47 -0600 Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA> writes:
>>>Down Bull! You can have 3/4, I'll take the other quarter.. :)
>>
>>I want my part too ;]
>
>I already ate mine. Fight with the wendigo :-)
<sarcasm>Great.</sarcasm> Save some steak for me!
Down, Bull! Down!
:)
--
-Canthros-the-shapeshifter-mage
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 22:15:58 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Physad Enhanced Centering
On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 22:06:08 -0400 "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
writes:
>> Actually, it's bought by skill category (as outlined in the skill
>chart
>> in SR2). So, two Magic Points allow him to use it for Armed Combat,
>> Unarmed Combat, Firearms, Gunnery, Throwing Weapons, Projectile
>Weapons
>> and Demolitions.
>
>Actually, that's note -quite- right. Its' by skill Category...Combat
>(Armed,
>Unarmed, Thrown, Projectile), Technical (Computers, Electronics, Radio
<g> I think that's what I said, Physad spends two Magic points [for
Enhanced Centering: Combat], now he can use Centering on any skill
classed as a Combat skill (those that I listed are all 'Combat' skills,
as per p75 of the BBB)
>Sciences, etc.), Knowledge (Big List), Language (Bigger List?), B/R
>(can be
>interesting, character can make some big money on the side), Magical
>(which
>allows for the Centering to actually get used in Enchanting and a few
>other
>things)...
Except that a physad can't enchant, and can't use most magical skills
except for mundane effects (which is to say, in the same way(s) a mundane
could use them).
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 22:27:22 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Hallucinogens in SR
In a message dated 97-07-23 21:11:59 EDT, spamquat@****.COM (Joshua T Brown)
writes:
>
> Any ideas on the game mechanics/effects for the use of hallucinogens in
> SR? Peyote, LSD, Shrooms... How hard might they be to acquire? How might
> they affect Magicians, especially shamans? (Keeping in mind the native
> belief in peyote as a method of inducing visions and becoming closer to
> the spirits) What nasty side affects might certain hallucinogens have
> since the Awakening? There's lots of evil Gm fodder here....
>
>
How about treating them like a "Chemical Confusion" spell, with lots of
detail. PC in question gets to roll Body or Willpower (GM's choice) against
the rating. Perhaps make it an opposed test, that way it can be a bit more
interesting, with the rating of the hallucinator in question being the dice
rolled.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 21:11:54 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: [Admin] Misc and FAQ Stuff
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hey folks..tried to post this, but my email program ate it..
Figured its about time to post the entire FAQ's and update them a bit. They
should be formatted a bit more friendly, and I've added and removed some
bits from part III.
I'll send one right after this, wait a few minutes, then send the next one,
wait, and the next one after that. Trying to avoid the problem where some
of them don't get distributed..
I'll be reading through some of my 4 megs of backlogs to try and get some
answers for some of the other game related FAQ's that the list gets.
Problem is, I don't pay much attention to most of those arguments myself :-)
I'm still not completely sure if I will be going on vacation next month,
but chances are looking good. I've had several people asking who the
Deputy Assistant Fearless Leader will be, and only time will tell. If you
don't know who it is, its probably not you! :)
I desperately want a second PC, so I can install Linux and actually
learn how to use it this time.. donations greatfully accepted.. :)
Phew..its damn hot in my room.
Of course, if you have questions/concerns/carp, feel free to fire them at me.
-Adam
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
GC3.1 GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 21:13:55 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: ShadowRN FAQ Part I
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
ShadowRN FAQ, Part I
Last modified July 23rd 1997
Version 1.0c
--------------------------------------------------------------------
You will note that this first part contains only brief information
on the subject of the mailing list, as well as information on how to
subscribe and unsubscribe from the list. Additional information
will be provided in Parts II and III of the FAQ, which is mailed to
new subscribers and periodically posted to the list.
Please note that there are some major changes in this version of the
FAQ, due to the lists being moved from HEARN to iTribe, and some
list software changes at iTribe.
You will also note that this FAQ _does not_ contain information
about the Shadowrun game spcifically. This FAQ is dedicated to the
list itself and serves as an introduction to the community created
by list-discussion.
Thanks for your interest,
Virtually, The SHADOWRN Listowners
Mark Imbriaco <mark@******.net> "New Fearless Leader"
Adam Jury <fro@***.ab.ca> "Assistant Fearless Leader"
----------------------------------------
Frequently Asked Questions for SHADOWRN@***tproc.iTribe.net
Originally compiled, Robert A. Hayden
With editing and additions by J.D. Falk and Adam Jury
----------------------------------------
The current version of this file can always be found as listed
below:
The ShadowRN FAQ's are available at Adam's page:
http://www.geocities.com/area51/6112/lists.html
You can also email <fro@***.ab.ca> to request the current version of
the FAQ
The web page will most likely be on the move soon, but notification
will be posted and the FAQ updated.
There is a copyright notice at the bottom of each section of this
FAQ.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Part I: Subscription FAQ
I. INTRODUCTION
1. What is SHADOWRN?
2. How do I subscribe to SHADOWRN?
3. How do I post to SHADOWRN?
4. How do I unsubscribe from SHADOWRN?
5. How do I reconfirm my subscription
6. Other Important Listproc-Lite Commands
7. Why am I getting deleted from the list for no reason?
8. Why does the list reject postings from my account?
9. HELP! Mail from the list has stopped coming, but I'm still
subscribed!
10. Is the list down or just quiet today?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
PART I: INTRODUCTION
----------------------------------------
What is ShadowRN?
ShadowRN is a discussion list for the role-playing game called
Shadowrun, which is published by FASA.
Shadowrun takes place in Seattle 61 years in the future.
Cybernetics, Virtual Reality, and Biotechnology are available
to the public. Furthermore, Magic exists and is controlled by
mages and shamans, and mythical beings once again roam the
land. Megacorporations, with the power of small nations, rule
the politics and hold the ultimate stranglehold on the
underclass. Surviving in the world of Shadowrun takes as much
courage as it does skill.
And perhaps just a little luck.
How do I subscribe to SHADOWRN?
To subscribe, you must send a control message to the mailing
list processor at iTribe.net. To do this, send email with the
following parameters:
TO: listserv@***tproc.itribe.net
SUB: <leave blank>
1st line: SUBscribe shadowrn
In a little while you should get email instructing you how to
confirm your subscription request. Simply follow the
instructions and you will soon start getting regular postings.
----------------------------------------
How do I post to SHADOWRN?
To post to SHADOWRN, you send your posting via email to
SHADOWRN@***tproc.iTribe.net
----------------------------------------
How do I unsubscribe from SHADOWRN?
To unsubscribe, you must send a control message to the mailing
list processor at iTribe.net. To do this, send email with the
following parameters:
TO: listserv@***tproc.iTribe.net
SUB: <leave blank>
1st line: signoff shadowrn
In a little while you should get email confirming your
unsubscription request.
---------------------------------
Other Important LISTSERV-LITE Commands.
There are many commands you can give to the listserv in
order to change how your subscription works.
SET listname REPRO (default):
This command will have the listserv include you in
the distribution of any posting you make (ie, you
get your own things back, too).
SET listname ACK:
This is simply an confirmation of the posting you
just made. It is returned to you in email.
SET listname NOMAIL:
If you are going on vacation or something, sending a
NOMAIL command will halt your receiving any
postings. This is helpful if you know that your
quota will be exceeded during Christmas break, for
example.
WARNING: If you forget to do this and your quota is
exceeded, this will cause all of the postings to be
bounced back to the list, possibly leading to a
loop. The only way to quickly alleviate this
problem is to delete your subscription, so PLEASE
use the NOMAIL command if you are going to be gone
for a while.
SET listname DIGEST:
When this option is set, instead of all of the
postings being delivered separately, they will be
delivered in one mailing at the close of the day (in
Listserv's timezone). This is helpful if the number
of mailings become a burden.
SET listname MAIL (default):
This option is invoked to restore active status
after sending a NOMAIL request, and is also used to
change from DIGEST back to getting all postings
separately.
HELP:
Sending this command will give you a listing and
brief descriptions of all available commands.
----------------------------------------
Why am I getting deleted from the list for no reason?
99% of the time, the reason you are deleted from the list (by
the listowner or assistant listowner) is because for some
reason mail is bouncing off of your account.
Usually this is caused by one of two things:
* Your account's disk space quota is filled and you can no
longer receive new messages
* For some reason your account is not available (either the
machine or your account is down).
When this happens, it causes an error message to be sent back
to the list. The list software attempts to detect error
messages and route them to the listowner. Sometimes, though,
the error is not detected by the ListServ software and the
error gets reported to the list. This causes the error message
to get sent our to all subscribers, including the person who is
bouncing mail. This leads to a loop that really messes things
up.
Thus, standard procedure when an error message is reported it
to delete the subscription of the person causing the error.
Once the problem has been fixed (you are back on the net or
have room), you are, of course, free to join the list again.
----------------------------------------
Why does the list reject postings from my account?
As part of some security features, the list will only accept
mailings that come from the same address your subscription is
registered on. This is to prevent non-list people from
flooding the mailboxes of hundreds of people.
Because of this, if you attempt to post from another account or
machine, your message will be rejected. Please read the error
message enclosed with your rejection and determine what you
must do to fix it in the future.
----------------------------------------
HELP! Mail from the list has stopped coming, but I'm still subscribed!
Mail has an annoying characteristic in that, while most of the
time it is instantaneous, there are times when it can take up
to two weeks to go from one computer to another that is located
ten feet away (much like snail mail, eh?).
If mail suddenly suddenly stops coming, wait at least 48 hours
before you contact the listowner. Very likely a link is down
between you and the list, and as soon as that link comes back
up, you will get all of the old mailings.
Also note that the listowner won't be able to help at all in
terms of mail not arriving. All he can do is to verify that
you are indeed subscribed, anything beyond that is under the
control of someone else.
----------------------------------------
Eek! I'm getting some (every) post twice!
You've likely got subscribed twice somehow with aliases that
point to the same email address. This happens sometimes with
colleges and universities switching around mail server names.
Try unsubscribing and then resubscribing.
Is the list down or just quiet?
The mailing list processor at iTribe has a nasty habit of dying
whenever Mark Imbriaco, the administrator there, is busy
working on the things he actually gets paid for. So, every now
and then, the list stops processing messages.
If you think this may have happened, DO NOT send a message to
the list asking if it is down! On one instance in October
1996, about 2 dozen such messages showed up as soon as the list
was working again, and it just wasted everybody's time.
Instead, try sending either "help" or another subscribe request
to listserv@***tproc.itribe.net. If Listserv-Lite is not
working, you won't get any response until Mark has fixed it --
and you won't be cluttering the list with worthless test
messages (only list admins should do that.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
This document is Copyright (c) 1997 by Robert A. Hayden,J.D. Falk,
and Adam Jury, all rights reserved. Permission is granted for it to
be reproduced electronically on any system connected to the various
networks which make up the Internet, USENET, and FidoNet so long as
it is reproduced in its entirety (either in three parts as here, or
combined), unedited, and with this copyright notice intact.
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
GC3.1 GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 21:27:49 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: ShadowRN FAQ Part II
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
ShadowRN FAQ, Part II
Last modified July 23rd 1997
Version 1.2b
--------------------------------------------------------------------
List Policies & Related Resources
New in version 1.2b:
Minor URL changes.
Fixed a few spelling mistakes.. :-)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
1. MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE LIST
1. A Disclaimer
2. Off-topic postings and policies related to
- Moved to Part III
3. Why should I read this entire FAQ?
4. Replying to previous messages
5. About Flaming
6. Mailing List Advertising Policy
2. HOW TO GET PAST LOGS AND OTHER SHADOWRUN INFORMATION
1. FTP, Gopher, and WWW sites for Shadowrun materials
3. SHADOWRUN RELATED MAILING LISTS, NEWSGROUPS AND OTHER FORUMS
1. ShadowTK
2. PLOT-D
3. NERPS
4. EARTHDAWN
5. ALT.CYBERPUNK.*
6. REC.GAMES.FRP.CYBER
7. ALT.MAGICK
8. Shadowrun MUSH
9. Shadowrun on IRC
10. FASA Email Addresses
--------------------------------------------------------------------
MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE LIST
----------------------------------------
A Disclaimer
By nature of the topic of this list (cyberpunk fiction and
role-playing), it should be warned that discussions often
contain violent, sexual or adult themes, as well as anarchistic
political discussions. The responsibility (blame?) for each
posting falls entirely into the hands of the original poster.
The listowners, postmaster, and the iTribe administration
assume no liability for the contents of postings.
----------------------------------------
Off-topic postings and policies related to
This section has been moved to part 3 of the ShadowRN FAQ,
where it has been greatly expanded on. Also now includes some
questions and answers that have been beaten to death.
----------------------------------------
Why should I read this entire FAQ?
Well, if you don't (and it's pretty obvious that you are, at
least in part), chances are you'll end up posting a question to
the list which has already been answered so many times that it
became classified as a Frequently Asked Question, and has been
answered here in this FAQ. This will cause a number of people
to respond with answers such as "Read the FAQ," "It's in the
FAQ," and even "What kind of a moron doesn't read the FAQ?"
It may even spark a conversation about exactly what kind of
moron doesn't read the FAQ. Legend tells us of other,
long-dead mailing lists, in which this topic became such a
point of deliberation as to totally drive out any discussion
related to the original purpose of the mailing list, eventually
taking up so much bandwidth that hundreds of systems worldwide
crashed from the influx of mail.
Also, it makes you look like a butthead.
----------------------------------------
Replying to previous messages
(adapted from a Frequently Reposted Message by Doctor Doom)
When one seeks to juxtapose one's own views with an earlier
message, i.e. reply to an anterior posting, one should:
1. Facilitate differentiation between original and cited
material by denoting text from the former correspondence
with initial line characters (">" and "]" being
typical),
rather than simply append one's own material at the end.
2. Quote, or cite, only those lines pertinent to your reply
or commentary, that is to say, avoid repeating the entire
message. With over 200 messages some days coming through
ShadowRN, this is extremely important.
3. Quote the earlier posting previous to insertion of one's
own script, RATHER than including the preceding post at
the end of your message. Hence, observers may see what
instigated one's reaction, and following that,
specifically what one's reaction or reply actually was.
In line with this is the popular procedure that
"intermingles" the respective texts, by which one replies
to specific lines of text individually, followed by
another citation, followed by more response material, and
so forth.
4. Indicate the prior posting's authorship by identifying
said message's originator at the beginning of the earlier
material, and not by the inclusion of the (typically)
multiple-line signature file.
I only mention this in interests of the greater good and due to
the fact that others have made similar complaints. It is poor
Net etiquette for those who choose to plow through the volume
of mail this list produces and to have to contend with such
obviously unnecessary verbiage -- especially those members who
must actually PAY for electronic mail service.
----------------------------------------
About Flaming
The New Hacker's Dictionary defines the Flame as:
1. vi. To post an email message intended to insult and
provoke.
2. vi. To speak incessantly and/or rabidly on some
relatively uninteresting subject or with a patently
ridiculous attitude.
3. vt. Either of senses 1 or 2, directed with hostility
at a particular person or people.
4. n. An instance of flaming. When a discussion
degenerates into useless controversy, one might tell
the participants "Now you're just flaming" or "Stop
all that flamage!" to try to get them to cool down
(so to speak).
Flaming is highly discouraged on the ShadowRN list, because in
the end it only wastes everyone's time, bandwidth and quota,
and seldom if ever leads to any resolution of problems. If a
discussion reaches the point where people are calling everyone
names or insulting, a warning will be issued from the listowner
saying something along the lines of "take it to email". If the
flamers continue to flood the list with their hate-mail, they
will be deleted from the list.
One of the other problems is that often someone "insults"
someone in a satirical way. This is something that happens
quite often in the real world, but the real world has the
benefit of body-language and tone-of-voice to show that it is
only polite joking. Cyberspace doesn't have that feature.
In order to make sure that your humorous flame isn't taken
seriously, make sure you include a smiley or some other
indication to show that you are only joking.
----------------------------------------
Mailing List Advertising Policy
The Shadowrun mailing lists accept commercial advertising for
payment. We offer a fee waiver if you can show us the canceled
check for a $1000 (U.S.) or more donation to the Electronic
Frontier Foundation. One donation per advertisement, please.
If you don't wish to donate, simply post your advertisement to
the list, and the operator of the mailing lists will bill $1999
(U.S). The list operator will donate this amount, minus the
expense of collecting it, to EFF. Please note that the lists
are distributed automatically - messages are generally not read
or checked in any way before they are distributed.
By the act of posting your advertisement you agree to accept
responsibility for the fee, you agree to indemnify the
mailing-list operator against any legal claims from you or
others in connection with your advertisement, and you agree to
pay any legal and business expenses incurred in collecting late
payment. Our liability to you is limited to a good-faith
effort to deliver your message.
Reduced rates and/or waiver of fee are available for Shadowrun-
related and selected other topics of advertisements. You must
consult the mailing-list operator in advance of posting for any
reduction or fee waiver.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
HOW TO GET PAST LOGS AND OTHER INFORMATION
Logs can be accessed via FTP and the WWW.
FTP procedure would be to FTP to 'listproc.itribe.net', and in
the directory /pub/listproc/ there is oodles of logs for all
the mailing lists, dating back to the HEARN days of ShadowRN.
A treasure trove of information, and an interesting read,
provided you have time. To access the logs via WWW, you can
follow the links at http://www.itribe.net/~mark, and there is
a web interface for viewing past logs.
----------------------------------------
FTP, Gopher, and WWW sites for Shadowrun materials
The following sites contain Shadowrun-related information. For
brevity's sake, I didn't include every Shadowrun related site
here. You can find links to most if not all of them at Paolo's
site AKA The Shadowrun Archive.
--------------------
Name: The Negative Space
Address: http://nspace.cts.com/
Contact: Jerry Stratton <nspace@***.com>
Info Updated: Oct 19, 1996
Notes: Currently includes space for AD&D, Shadowrun, and
Brand X (an original superhero role-playing game).
This is the distribution point for the
_Neo-Anarchists Guide to Everything Else_ and NERPS,
the net.books for Shadowrun players. Also contains
archives of ShadowTalk in .ZIP format.
--------------------
Name: Woodelf's RPG Index
URL: http://dax.cs.wisc.edu/~woodelf/RPG/RPG.html#index
Info Updated: Oct 19, 1996
Notes: A truly amazing list, this collection includes just
about every RPG-related resource on the World Wide
Web, in Gopherspace, or available via FTP. Some of
the information is outdated however.
--------------------
Name: The Jayhawk series archive sites
Address: ftp.white.toronto.edu
ftp.cs.pdx.edu
Info Updated: Oct 19, 1996
Notes: Mary Kuhner's <mkkuhner@********.washington.edu>
Jayhawk series of stories (high quality Shadowrun
writeups) are available in several archive sites.
Mary has offered to mail the stories if you can't
get to one of the servers.
Site1: ftp.white.toronto.edu
File: /pub/frp/Shadowrun/jayhawk
Comment: Fairly good speed on this site. Jayhawk was one large
file.
Site2: potemkin.cs.pdx.edu [ftp.cs.pdx.edu]
Directory: /pub/frp/stories/jayhawk
/pub/frp/Shadowrun/
Comment: Slower site. The Jayhawk series was available
as many separate files or one RTF/gzipped file.
----------------------------------------
The following is a list of World Wide Web sites maintained by
various listmembers. All contain information related to
Shadowrun and/or the mailing list(s), and most contain links to
each other.
----------------------------------------
Address: http://www.interware.it/users/paolo/sr2/index.htm
Contact: Paolo Marcucci <paolo@*********.it>
Info Updated: Oct 19, 1996
Notes: This is the most complete site for Shadowrun-related
material, bar none.
--------------------
Address: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html#shadowrun
Contact: Gurth <gurth@******.nl>
Info Updated: Oct 19, 1996
Notes: Home of the Plastic Warriors books among other things.
--------------------
Address: http://www.icis.qut.edu.au/~chrisr
Contact: Chris Ryan <chrisr@****.qut.edu.au>
Info Updated: 02-06-1995
Notes: Mostly contains Earthdawn information, including the
FAQ for the Earthdawn mailing list (see below) and
some info on tie-ins between Earthdawn and
Shadowrun.
--------------------
Address: http://shadowrun.home.ml.org
Contact: Adam J <fro@***.ab.ca>
Info Updated: 03-14-1997
Notes: Info on The Shadowrun Supplemental. Also contains
the ShadowRN and NERPS FAQ's, among other stuff.
Due to move to a real home soon.
Address: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503
Contact: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
Info Updated: 03-14-1997
Notes: The Shadowrun Webring's main site.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
SHADOWRUN RELATED MAILING LISTS,
NEWSGROUPS, AND OTHER ONLINE HANGOUTS
----------------------------------------
ShadowTK (SHADOWTK@***tproc.iTribe.net)
Shadowtalk is an interactive fiction mailing list based on
Shadowrun. Members of the list post as characters in genre,
and by responding to each other's posts "in character", stories
are developed. These stories may then be used by players and
GMs alike as a basis for contacts, NPCs, and adventure plots in
their own campaigns.
There is a small companion ShadowTK FAQ. A copy of the
complete FAQ can also be requested from Mark Imbracio
<mark@******.net>. It contains full information on how to
subscribe as well as information on posting formats and
periodic supplemental distributions of information.
PLOT-D (PLOT-D@***tproc.iTribe.net)
PLOT-D is a supplemental discussion list for ShadowTalk. The
purpose of PLOT-D is to discuss (as the name obviously implies)
plotlines. It also handles discussion of administrative issues
in order to not clog SHADOWTK or SHADOWRN with only remotely
related issues.
----------------------------------------
NERPS (NERPS@***tproc.iTribe.net)
NERPS (Net Enhancements for Role Playing Shadowrun) is a
mailing list that serves as a committee base for a group of
individuals spending time organizing and writing up a series of
net.shadowrun manuals. These manuals contain everything from
new races and spells to new technology and alternate magic
systems.
----------------------------------------
EARTHDAWN
FASA's fantasy RPG, Earthdawn, has its own mailing list. This
list covers all aspects of Earthdawn (rules, setting,
campaigns, etc) plus the crossovers to Shadowrun.
To subscribe to the list, send the following message to
majordomo@***ts.iquest.com
subscribe earthdawn
List Owner: Chris Ryan <chrisr@****.qut.edu.au>
----------------------------------------
ALT.CYBERPUNK.*
On Usenet, there are a series of cyberpunk-related newsgroups.
These groups have little to do with Shadowrun, per se, but they
do have discussions of the cyberpunk genre of fiction and its
implications on current and future society.
alt.cyberpunk
This is a general group for discussion cyberpunkish topics.
May range from cinema to politics to tends in philosophical
thinkings, although is mainly full of spam and kids who
can't spend 4 hours to read Neuromancer for a school
project, and want a plot synopsis. A shame.
alt.cyberpunk.chatsubo
This group is devoted to the writing of cyberpunk fiction.
Several stories are posted periodic in installment fashion
and critiques are welcome.
alt.cyberpunk.movement
This newsgroup discusses the societal impact of the
cyberpunk movement.
alt.cyberpunk.tech
This group is devoted to discussions of new technologies
that the birth of a cyber age will bring about.
----------------------------------------
REC.GAMES.FRP.CYBER
Rec.games.frp.cyber is a Usenet newsgroup set aside for
discussion of the cyberpunk genre of role-playing games.
Discussions in this group include not only Shadowrun, but also
CyberSpace, CyberPunk 2020, GURPS Cyberpunk, and many others.
----------------------------------------
ALT.MAGICK
This Usenet newsgroup, which may not be carried at all sites,
is for the discussion of magic/magick in "real life," in modern
times. Alt.magick is not specifically for role-playing
information, but could shed some light on what FASA would
consider the more esoteric aspects of magical theory.
----------------------------------------
Shadowrun MUSH
There is a Shadowrun-Themed MUSH set up. The address is
shadowrun.dnaco.net port 4201, and currently chargen is being
re-coded, so the MUSH is not open to new characters. A second
mush at detroit.dnaco.net (?) has also been started.
----------------------------------------
Shadowrun on IRC
Before he was the Assistant Fearless Leader of ShadowRN, Adam
registered a Shadowrun channel on Undernet, called, strangely,
#Shadowrun. Its kind of a sleeper channel, its either empty or
full, but occasionally the ops strike up a game and its
generally a friendly and helpful place. Some of the other ops
besides Adam are: Skye, Dodger, Krilion, Karybdis, Manawar,
DocRaven....ok, so the channel has too many ops. It can be
reached at any Undernet server. 'Us.Undernet.Org' will toss you
on a random American server, although I recommend picking a
different server, one closer to you.
'Chicago.il.us.undernet.org' is usually fairly good, but that
depends on where on the globe you are. If you need more info
email Adam <fro@***.ab.ca> Boy, his name sure is popping up alot
in this FAQ, eh?
----------------------------------------
FASA Email Addresses
The following email addresses have been reported to
eventually end up before the eyes of somebody associated
intimately with FASA:
FasaMike@***.com
Mike Mulvihill, Shadowrun Line Developer
FasaInfo@***.com
General FASA Information
Fasaamna@***.com
Convention and Promotional support.
TalonMail@***.com
Steve Kenson, FASA Freelancer.
Not a full time FASA employee, but posts to the list and reads
it regularly.
FASA can also be reached on the World Wide web at
Http://www.fasa.com
Although by having their email addresses public these people
open themselves up to alot of mail, we ask that you respect
them and keep the emails to a minimum. I have found both Mike
and Steve to be very prompt and polite in answering email and
any questions I have had. However, please try other resources,
like the ShadowRN list and rec.games.frp.cyber before mailing
any of them, most of all Mike. Because if Mike answers email
all day, he can't make a game, can he?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
This document is Copyright (c) 1997 by Robert A. Hayden, J.D. Falk,
Adam Jury, and Mark Imbriaco all rights reserved. Permission is
granted for it to be reproduced electronically on any system
connected to the various networks which make up the Internet,
USENET, and FidoNet so long as it is reproduced in its entirety
(either in three parts as here, or combined), unedited, and with this
copyright notice intact.
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
GC3.1 GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 20:59:06 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---Brett Borger wrote:
>
>
> BUg spirits break a lot of rules....I'm pretty sure I saw a Force/4
> rating, but again, no book (but then, you're in the same boat)
<snip>
> Well, that depends on which rules are right. The only ones that
> matters is the Threat Rating.
I know I covered this in another reply as well, but here goes:
The listing of Force/4 is in the format of Threat Pool/Professional
Rating. Which means Threat is equal to Force and the Professional
Rating is 4 (meaning a usual fight to the death).
Thus a Force 5 Ant Warrior would have a listing of 5/4. Meaning a
Threat Pool of 5 dice, and and Professional rating of 4 (either he
drops you or you drop him).
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 04:45:09 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Dark Conspiracy
In-Reply-To: <5984.199707231014@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <5984.199707231014@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>, Spike
<u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK> rambled on endlessly about Dark Conspiracy
>|I just took that and threw in a little magic. My campaigns pre-dates a lot
>|of the "official" horror stuff (HB, Atzlan SB, etc.) so I just sort of made
>|it work for SR. Minions in my SR game are similar, but different to
>|Horrors. Less powerful, but more diabolical than Horrors. They are
>|technically and magically more advanced and are basciallly
>|trans-dimensional colonizers.
>
>Steps back in amazement....
>
>Errrr..... MORE diabolical than Horrors???
>
>That's not ntirely possible.... Is it?
Take an ancient and powerful alien race living in a transdimensional
area behind portals on things like Io, and mix in ludicrous amounts of
cthulhu, and you have the equivelant of the Dark Conspiracy beasties.
Now take a second nosey alien race who opens those portals, and you've
definately got Dark Conspiracy.
A lot of people slam the game, but it's not really all that bad, a tad
overpowered maybe, but fun nevertheless.
--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 04:47:48 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: [Sorta OT again] My AD&D Game and Thanks
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.96.970723144155.1206A-100000@*******.cs.uml.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <Pine.OSF.3.96.970723144155.1206A-100000@*******.cs.uml.edu>,
"Steven A. Collins" <scollins@**.UML.EDU> rambled on endlessly about
[Sorta OT again] My AD&D Game and Thanks
>pong. It was sorta like playing tennis on a television. Then again D&D
>didn't really exist then it was called chainmail.
Was it? Hmm, never heard of that one. I do however have distant and
fond memories of Tunnels and Trolls. :)
>I think I'm starting to feel old now
Yeah...
--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 05:05:20 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Hallucinogens in SR
In-Reply-To: <19970723.181225.10550.1.Spamquat@****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <19970723.181225.10550.1.Spamquat@****.com>, Joshua T Brown
<spamquat@****.COM> rambled on endlessly about Hallucinogens in SR
>Here's a question to throw out to the list and watch get ripped to
>shreds....
>(I've always viewed starting a new thread around here as the Email
>equivalent to throwing a bloody steak into a pit filled with underfed
>rottweilers...<smirk>)
Now there's an interesting view of the list.
Not entirely inaccurate, but also not particularly nice. <g>
>Any ideas on the game mechanics/effects for the use of hallucinogens in
>SR?
Drugs like this haven't been covered too well in SR literature, probably
for "parental" reasons than anything else, especially as it is rife in
the CP game.
There is a fairly extensive list of drugs, effects, power levels and all
the associated stuff that goes with it available on the net, I've got a
copy of it here somewhere but I'm damned if I know where it came from.
Alternatively, you could talk to your local pharmacist... hmm, then
again maybe not. Or purchase one of the multitude of medical programs
that are available. The one I've got is "The Pharmacy Assistant" and
covers all major drug groups and derivatives up to 1995, What has come
since then I know not as I can't afford at this time to update the
program. The program as with literature on the subject is very
informative. Using the RL information, it's a moderately simple job to
convert that into game terms.
Addiction factors and suchlike need to be considered carefully.
In all honesty most drugs of this nature are more of a nuisance in the
game than an amusing GM distraction, because of the associated problems
that comes with drug addiction or regular use.
Regarding stuff like Peyote etc, that is normally used in vision quests
and spirit walks. Many of the older native societies still use this as
part of their rituals, so it is likely that certain shamanic types would
also utilise drugs, but as it is part of their ritual, I'd be dubious
about adding in the downfalls too heavily.
One argument is that drugs don't exist because of simsense, but then,
there is a considerable portion of the population that cannot afford
simsense, and will turn to drugs use for recreation.
I'd have to say, in all honesty that I'd advise you not to get involved
in this in your game, because it adds considerable complexity to the
game, especially if used against or by characters.
Addiction to drugs has a wide variety of effects on different people,
but it all amounts to the simple fact that in the end, they have got to
have their fix regardless of the consequences, this can be severely
detrimental to a team on a run. Nobody likes working with a junkie
because they are unpredictable as well as unreliable.
Without a really good reason, and preperation for some heavy work in the
game, this sort of thing should be avoided.
By all means allow the public to use the stuff, have gangs of drugged up
thugs roaming the darker parts of the city looking for a way to make
their next score, but keep it away from the characters.
Use junkies as informants and watchers, pay them in drugs or cash, but
don't let the law enforcement agencies catch your characters doing it.
Fixers, dopers, dealers and transporters will all exist in this
environment, and the underworld will certainly have a big hand in this
kind of supply, purely from a financial profit oriented point of view,
and a loss of profit to these people is not a good thing for the people
responsible.
It can add colour to the campaign to reflect real life in the game
world, and should be done for local colour if nothing else, but I can't
see it working in the character environment, just the game world itself.
Just my opinion, ignore at will.
--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 04:42:00 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: SR-type movies (was: A Li'l Ole Question)
In-Reply-To: <199707231634.KAA11335@******>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <199707231634.KAA11335@******>, David Buehrer
<dbuehrer@****.ORG> rambled on endlessly about SR-type movies (was: A
Li'l Ole Question)
<ALiens - Directors Cut>
>Hope you have a laser-disk player, cuz that's the only format the
>director's cut comes in (I've been looking for the VHS version off
>and on for the last 4 years).
Available in VHS format in all major and minor video stores throughout
the UK. If it ain't on the shelves they can get it for you.
The DC was recently released with the 3 movie boxed edition... So it's
still out there. Maybe the US should learn to appreciate the story of a
film like us Brits, then you'd get spoiled with little gifts like this
as well. :)
--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 21:15:31 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---"Simon T. Sailer" wrote:
>
>
> Why would the combat pool be refreshed? It is refreshed at the
> beginning of a new combat turn... and that woud be BEFORE anyone of
> the two combatants acts... If you let the two refresh their combat
> pools at different times, well, the outcome is what you described...
> The one with the lower initiative (which should be a drawback)
> effectively doubles his pool for the turn. Doesn't make sense, does
> it?
OK, going back to the rules on this one (maybe you should read them
more closely):
BBB, page 84, under Dice Pools:
"Dice pools initially become available for use at full value as the
first step of the first Combat Turn of any encounter. Characters can
then draw from the as appropriate for the type of pool, during the
Combat Turn. Once dice are drawn from the pool, those dice are no
longer available for use until the pool refreshes at the beginning of
the character's next action."
It also explains this in BBB, page 78, under the heading of Combat
Turn Sequence.
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 08:37:23 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970723045733.338736f4@*****.com>
> Yeah, but A) you're number crunching, which isn;t always a good things,
> and B) If a Sammy DOESN'T put most of his Attribute points into Body,
> Quickenss and Intelligence, he's lunch meat in a pgysical fight.
>
> Sammies are not designed to take out mages, they're designed to deal with
> mudnae threats...
Imho, they are designed to fight. To fight whichever opposition,
magical, spirits, mundanes, vehicles, critters, whatever.
> The teams Wizard is there to deal with magical threats...
>
> Rarely will you find a Sammy with a starting WP of more than 3, if that.
> It's not really part of the character type.
different games, different characters, but as I see the sammi, all of
the attributes are part of the character type. Sammies are in
extremely good physical and psychical shape... and are a bit weak
with the skills. with other characters, it's the other way round.
"strong, stupid samurai" and "intelligent, weak decker" is totally
against the way I see shadowrun. Sr has the most flexible character
generation system I know.
> Of course, this isn't true for EVERY sammy, but... How many 6's can you
> have in a character, unless you're talking a high level character, in which
> case it's a whole different ballgame anyways, and he should be fighting
> something bigger than a force 4 bug spirit :]
*Grin* of course you can't have too many attributes at level 6 at the
beginning, but willpower and body have first priority as far as I am
concerned. The cyber and bioware will take care of the other
attributes.
> Bull
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 08:51:25 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970723061638.34d750d0@*****.com>
> While I agree several seconds can be far too short, have you ever watched
> anyone who is really a skilled fighter go at it? usually it doesn't take
> more than a few blows to end a fight.
Yes, but it can take very long to be able to deliver the blows..
> A) Characters in SR tend to get to take several actions in a single round
> (3-5 seconds), whereas your nrmal human only gets 1. thus, what takes a
> cybered up sammy to do in 5 seconds, it may take a normal human 15-20
> second, just to take the same number of actions...
Ok, thats a point.
> B) Combat is HEAVILY simplified, for speed of play, not for realism.
> Combat can already take forever, especially when there's a lot of
> participants.
Ok another one.
> C) One really good blow to the head or genitals will normally end a fight
> immediatly, as will a single sword/knife/cyberblade blow.
Nope. totally wrong. If somebody has to fight for his life, even a
broken arm won't take him out. A kick in the genitals will end most
show-streetfights, but never a REAL fight. and a blow in the face
wont do anything but hurt the hand of the one who striked most of the
time... believe me, I know from RL experience. (ouch)
> D) Anyone with more than 2 in Armed/Unarmed combat is considered well
> skilled. Anyone with 4 or more is highly skilled, and someone with 6 or
> more is a master. Most martial arts/weapons master can end a fight in
> seconds, when they need to.
They can against a inferior opponent, but there is no chance to end
the fight against a equally skilled opponent.
> E) Smashing a face against a concrete wall ends the fight in seconds, and
> is messy. I know this one from experience. :]:]
see point C
> F) Mocking the person trying to fight you will also end a fight, usually
> with them giving up in disgust or embarassment, but it takles more than a
> few seconds...
Ok... but ... where is the connection to the topic? ;-)
> Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 08:57:39 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <01ILKKHPNS6S9I6PBD@******.acs.muohio.edu>
> Combat Pool refreshes:
> 1) at the beginning of a combat, for all participants
> 2) on each phase in which a character is eligible for an action (other than the
> automatic Free Actions that everyone gets in every phase)
Of course I COULD be wrong... but... IMHO the combat pol is
refreshed at the beginning of a new turn...
> And yes, you give up something by acting first, but when what you gain by
> acting first is the ability to pump half or more of your Combat Pool into a
> powerful attack and then shift back behind cover, it's worth it. The other
> guy, when his turn comes, prolly has wound modifiers, a big disadvantage.
>
> losthalo
ss
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:08:13 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970723091753.00935c00@****host>
> Well, the two styles you mentioned (judo and american boxing) are both from
> tournament format. While I'll admit that fights can/will last about 30
> seconds or so, they aren't _usually_ going to go beyond that. Boxing and
> judo, in tournament, aren't designed to kill your opponent. I'm not
> harshing them for that, it's just true. But take a non-tournament fighting
> art (Silat, Wing Chun Kung Fu, Gracie style Jujitsu, Kali, etc.) where one
> fighter is either better than the other or gets an advantage, and you will
> have a short, painful fight.
If one of the combatants is by far better, the fight will of course
be much shorter.
But I once had the opportunity to fight a tae-kwon-do blackbelt... I
didn't stand a chance, granted, but even if he had liked to, it had
taken him at least 30 seconds to fully take me out.
> My problem with the current Sr uac is the fact that specializing in a
> specific martial arts style has no drawback. If you've only fought one
> style, practised one style, studied one style, and never really contacted
> another style, you're going to have some serious problems when you
> encounter someone who knows a different style. Example, how does a boxer
> counter a pak sao lap sao? If all you've ever done is box, you won't know
> what to do when someone throws a weird manuever at you. My current Gm
> (Topcat) is the guy who convinced me of this (luckily, not by slapping me
> around:). The house rule we use is that if you specialize, you can only
> use your specilization when you fight someone fighting in the same style.
> Works well, and reduces the powergaming potentials of specializing in a
> style (actually gives it a drawback.)
I see the problem, but your solution is not the best, imho. (I hope
topcat won't read this) You CAN use a different style to fight
another. maybe working out the different styles with all their
drawbacks and advantages would help..
BTW, there are drawbacks... if you concentrate on a special martial
arts style, you can no longe use cyberweapons or subduing at the high
level. If you specialize, you have to specialize on a certain
technique, lets say spinkicks. Sometimes the gamemaster might rule
that there is not enough space to use a spinkick...
see?
> Rasputin
ss
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:17:07 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
In-Reply-To: <19970723.114950.17119.1.lobo1@****.com>
> >How would he survive? If the attacking character has 1 success, the
> >average 1,5 successes the Spirit is likely to score will stage the
> >damage level to...... D. If the attacking character has more
> >successes than 1, the spirit is toast...
>
> I doubt the attacker would have much more than one success, in this case
> anyway (no recoil comp, so +9 recoil mod, no combat pool, willpower only
> - not too good for metal-boy, eh?) Even so, I just test-rolled some dice
> (not having either a dice-rolling program or a probabilities table to
> consult) and came up with four successes from 9 dice. He'd live. He
> wouldn't be in real great shape, but he also heals a box of damage every
> minute he's not in battle (ala an elemental:), right?
>
> -Canthros
Well, if you rolled 4 sixes with 9 dice.... *grin* can you do it
again?
On an average roll, you will get 1 or two successes, and the spirit
takes deadly damage.
ss (who loves number-juggling ;)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 03:29:08 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: First session as GM
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Well, folks, since you were all so helpful when I told you that I was going
to be a new GM for Shadowrun, I figured I would let you know how the first
session went. It went pretty well, in a nutshell.
I developed 27 contacts (not bad for 3 PCs, eh?), all with personalities,
edges, and flaws. I also started an introductory run that Mr. Tinner was
kind enough to lend me the idea for (Romi-0 and Juli-8). So far, it seems
to be going well.
Here are a couple of questions/requests in the ongoing saga that is my
adjusting to being a GM, not just a player:
1. I have a player who is very involved in developing his PC (this is a
good thing). However, he wants to carry out in-character conversations
over the phone, e-mail, and in person on the side (in between gaming
sessions). I don't really have time for all that, with everything else I
do in a day, and all the time I am spending on new NPCs, campaign ideas,
etc. Thus, I told him that since I have allotted 9 hours per weekly gaming
session, I feel that all in-character discussions can, and should, be
handled then. Game time does not progress outside of the gaming sessions.
I stated that I am available via e-mail, etc. for any PLAYER questions he
may have, but that's it.
Here's the question (now that I have bored you to death with background
information): How do I allow the PCs to live out their lives, with all
that entails, without boring the other players to death in the meantime? I
want to keep them all occupied, but I can only have one serious
in-character conversation at a time. Any suggestions?
2. I am trying to come up with campaign/adventure/run ideas that do not
revolve around rare magical artifacts, vampires, raiding megacorps, etc. I
want to start the players off with a few simple (generic?) runs that aren't
too overwhelming. Then, after a few sessions, I will lay the good stuff on
them. ;) I am really short on ideas, but if anyone cares to share their
ideas or past run experiences with me, I would greatly appreciate it (and
so would my players, but they wouldn't really be aware of it). :)
I saw a run on-line somewhere that I really liked, and I thought I
downloaded the page in html format, but I can't seem to find it. It was
about getting to the bottom of a bunch of bank robberies that are being
performed by an underground organization, and it turns out that the group
is using the money to buy food for the homeless. That was a great run!
(for later on in the campaign, anyway) Can anyone point me in its general
direction?
Thanks again for all your help. In time, and with a little luck, I will be
amongst the ranks of the truly sinister GMs that I know exist on this list
(you know who you are). :) I am just itching to play Bug City in
somewhere like....Seattle, instead of Chicago...really throw the players
off. Send them off to Chicago (dreading it all the while) and when they
return to their home town of Seattle (all safe and sound), then lay it on
them. ;) See, I am a good GM student. :)
Actually, one NPC idea I have is to have a street doc be a bug shaman. And
he recruits the less fortunate patients (homeless and ill, etc.) into the
hive he runs. It would be interesting if one the of the PCs was a target
of his. He could tell the PC that he could help him out a great deal and
could show him the path to using magic, which the poor mundane PC wants to
do, but can't....etc. He could tell of the beauty of magic and what it
would bring to him...all subtle stuff that could be anything, not just bug
totem stuff. :) Hell, even the NPC would think he was doing the PC a
favor. And can give you great power. Ant is beautiful. Ant is clean and
organized. Ant will reshape the pitiful world we currently live in. Ant
will clean it up and make it better. Only then will the Earth be a great
place once again.... :) :) :)
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 23:58:05 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> If one of the combatants is by far better, the fight will of course
> be much shorter.
> But I once had the opportunity to fight a tae-kwon-do blackbelt... I
> didn't stand a chance, granted, but even if he had liked to, it had
> taken him at least 30 seconds to fully take me out.
>
HU!! i'v had the oportunity to see some blackbelts fight and against
each other they didn't take 30 sec. and unles you have a substantial
belt, are fighting dirty or with weapons (?) or he doesn't want to injur
you he could dispach of you easily and quickly. no 30 sec. bs (no ofese
just stateing facts :o))
> I see the problem, but your solution is not the best, imho. (I hope
> topcat won't read this) You CAN use a different style to fight
> another. maybe working out the different styles with all their
> drawbacks and advantages would help..
>
> BTW, there are drawbacks... if you concentrate on a special martial
> arts style, you can no longe use cyberweapons or subduing at the high
> level. If you specialize, you have to specialize on a certain
> technique, lets say spinkicks. Sometimes the gamemaster might rule
> that there is not enough space to use a spinkick...
> see?
>
IMO you are correct. in all your assesments here! great way of puting
it!
Caun :}
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:35:31 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
In-Reply-To: <19970723203819.28270.rocketmail@*****.rocketmail.com>
> They are two seperate and distinct powers.
>
> BBB, page 218, lists Immunity to Normal Weapons as a power and states:
> "This power gives a being an armor rating equal tp double its Essence
> when resisting damage from ordinary weapons. Against elemental damage,
> the effect is halved." This would included ranged, melee, and all
> other mundane attacks.
I see... so I was wrong again... I love this list... people find
all my mistakes... And that's the only way to improve, isn't it?
Would this power work against melee attacks If the attacker uses the
willpower instead of the skill?
> You'll find likewise descriptions of both powers in PAoNA and PAoE.
>
> Grimmy also shows the varied forms of a Free Spirit (Animal Form,
> Human Form, and Hidden Life) as having Immunity to Normal weapons, and
> references to page 218 of the BBB. This power is above and beyond the
> immunity to ranged attacks that comes with Manifestation.
>
> Loki
Loads of thanks
ss
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 03:37:29 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> From: Simon T. Sailer <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
> Date: Thursday, July 24, 1997 4:35 AM
> > They are two seperate and distinct powers.
> > BBB, page 218, lists Immunity to Normal Weapons as a power and states:
> > "This power gives a being an armor rating equal tp double its Essence
> > when resisting damage from ordinary weapons. Against elemental damage,
> > the effect is halved." This would included ranged, melee, and all
> > other mundane attacks.
> I see... so I was wrong again... I love this list... people find
> all my mistakes... And that's the only way to improve, isn't it?
Yep. Learn from your (and everyone else's) mistakes. :)
> Would this power work against melee attacks If the attacker uses the
> willpower instead of the skill?
Well, the attacker MUST use Willpower in place of his skill when attacking
a Spirit. Thus, yes, it does affect the attacker in melee (assuming it's
the all-encompassing version of the power).
> > You'll find likewise descriptions of both powers in PAoNA and PAoE.
> >
> > Grimmy also shows the varied forms of a Free Spirit (Animal Form,
> > Human Form, and Hidden Life) as having Immunity to Normal weapons, and
> > references to page 218 of the BBB. This power is above and beyond the
> > immunity to ranged attacks that comes with Manifestation.
> >
> > Loki
>
> Loads of thanks
>
> ss
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:45:14 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <19970724041531.3686.rocketmail@*****.rocketmail.com>
> OK, going back to the rules on this one (maybe you should read them
> more closely):
>
> Loki
It looks like as if I should reread these rules... I always refreshed
the combat pool at the beginning of a new combat turn... And now I'm
seriously confused. Maybe it has something to do with the translation
of the english version of the BBB... I use the German one... and it
tends to be a bit messy about combat turn, combat phase, and players
actions..
but anyway.. it's about time somebody told me how it should be
done...
Thanks..
ss
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:55:26 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970723024749.006b7f0c@****.lis.ab.ca>
> In your game.
> We've had this discussion before, but I feel compelled to point out that 6
> is the maximum willpower for 3 races, and the other two races have a
> maximum of 5 and 7.
> Therefore... a willpower of 6 would not be 'standard', but closer to
> 'exceptional', or 'HolyShit!'
> And don't forget, in that 'fraction of a second', the sammy likely acts at
> least once before the mage does.
>
> -Adam
True indeed. It's a old topic...
Sorry.
ss
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:58:52 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <33D6EEDE.27C4AE81@*********.com>
> HU!! i'v had the oportunity to see some blackbelts fight and against
> each other they didn't take 30 sec. and unles you have a substantial
> belt, are fighting dirty or with weapons (?) or he doesn't want to injur
> you he could dispach of you easily and quickly. no 30 sec. bs (no ofese
> just stateing facts :o))
I have already given up... ok, maybe I underestimated him.
(and maybe you underestimate me;)
> > I see the problem, but your solution is not the best, imho. (I
> > hope topcat won't read this) You CAN use a different style to
> > fight another. maybe working out the different styles with all
> > their drawbacks and advantages would help..
>
> > BTW, there are drawbacks... if you concentrate on a special martial
> > arts style, you can no longe use cyberweapons or subduing at the high
> > level. If you specialize, you have to specialize on a certain
> > technique, lets say spinkicks. Sometimes the gamemaster might rule
> > that there is not enough space to use a spinkick...
> > see?
> >
> IMO you are correct. in all your assesments here! great way of puting
> it!
>
> Caun :}
Hmmm... are you serious or trieng to make fun of me?
ss
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:01:36 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
In-Reply-To: <199707240739.DAA03673@****.provide.net>
> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 03:37:29 -0400
> > Would this power work against melee attacks If the attacker uses the
> > willpower instead of the skill?
>
> Well, the attacker MUST use Willpower in place of his skill when attacking
> a Spirit. Thus, yes, it does affect the attacker in melee (assuming it's
> the all-encompassing version of the power).
So the attacker has to use the wilpower AND the spirit gets twice his
level as armor? But this would render nearly all spirits unbeatable
by mundanes... (EGMLOL)
cool..
ss
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 04:16:46 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> From: Simon T. Sailer <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
> Date: Thursday, July 24, 1997 5:01 AM
> > > Would this power work against melee attacks If the attacker uses the
> > > willpower instead of the skill?
> > Well, the attacker MUST use Willpower in place of his skill when
attacking
> > a Spirit. Thus, yes, it does affect the attacker in melee (assuming
it's
> > the all-encompassing version of the power).
> So the attacker has to use the wilpower AND the spirit gets twice his
> level as armor? But this would render nearly all spirits unbeatable
> by mundanes... (EGMLOL)
Well, this certainly supports the standpoint that spirits should be hard to
defeat by mundanes. After all, spirits are magical constructs, thus the
best attack methods would involve magic (just like when defending against a
spell, spell defense is a definite advantage). Spirits are not from this
realm. They should be considered as "foreign" and should be respected and
perhaps feared because of this, IMO. IMO, without a Magical Theory skill,
you don't know anything about them and shouldn't know how best to defeat
them, either.
Bug Spirits are just plain rude, when it comes to combat. They are even
worse than Elementals. True Forms are especially harsh. Use them wisely.
;)
> cool..
Muwahaha! :)
>
> ss
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:43:42 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "NATHAN M. CHATFIELD" <s1183038@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: First session as GM
In-Reply-To: <199707240730.DAA03442@****.provide.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
> 2. I am trying to come up with campaign/adventure/run ideas that do not
> revolve around rare magical artifacts, vampires, raiding megacorps, etc. I
> want to start the players off with a few simple (generic?) runs that aren't
> too overwhelming. Then, after a few sessions, I will lay the good stuff on
> them. ;) I am really short on ideas, but if anyone cares to share their
> ideas or past run experiences with me, I would greatly appreciate it (and
> so would my players, but they wouldn't really be aware of it). :)
>
One idea is to get a "Johnson" to hire the characters to attack the
local gang to disorganise them so another raid or what ever can go on
somewhere else in that gangs area/ turf. So as to prevent the gang to
retaliate to another raid some where else.
--Phantom--
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:57:55 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <769B3824AB@**.opp.psu.edu>
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Brett Borger said on 10:03/23 Jul 97...
> What Armor? Immunity doesn't apply to melee weapons.
>
> PC rolling 6 die versus Bug rolling 8. PC has superior Reach
> (sword). PC has superior damage (sword). He had no trouble at all
> squishing the bug.
>
> Am I missing a vital stat here? I mean I know I can "modify" the
> bugs to make them stronger, but the stats as listed didn't seem too
> threatening.
Insect spirits also have mundane armor, by means of their outer shell.
This is usually in the order of Force - 1 or Force - 2, and it applies
against all attacks.
Although I'll have to add here that FASA doesn't put it in that many
words...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Rudely awakened by the telephone.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:57:55 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
In-Reply-To: <76BE8F6F92@**.opp.psu.edu>
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Brett Borger said on 10:11/23 Jul 97...
> Also, Am I wrong in recalling that most Bug spirits Threat ratings
> were something like Force/4??!?!?!?!!
Yes, but that doesn't mean "Force divided by 4." It says
"Threat/Professional Rating: Force/4" which indicates that the spirit has
a Threat Rating (i.e. extra dice) equal to its Force, and a Professional
Rating of 4 (i.e. it fights until it's dead).
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Rudely awakened by the telephone.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:57:55 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
In-Reply-To: <199707231314.HAA01974@******>
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David Buehrer said on 7:14/23 Jul 97...
> I missed that line also <grump>. And I agree with Gurth. Each
> disease should have a description of it's symptoms throughout the
> course of the disease, it's method of communication, at which
> point(s) during the course of the infection its communicable, etc.
> And, whether it's treatable, and how.
>
> I think I'm going to do some RL research on this. Look forward to
> something in the future :)
How many times do PCs or important NPCs get infected by a disease in SR
anyway? Because that's the only time this sort of info will come in handy.
The only game I've seen that really attempts to cover diseases in depth is
Twilight: 2000, but given the background of the game it makes sense to
give players a very real chance of infection with diseases like dysentery,
cholera, typhoid fever, and several other nice things (hmm... I just
noticed it lacks sexually transmitted diseases, which should also be
a very real threat in that game, IMHO...).
In Shadowrun I guess you could find some of those in the Barrens, but I
also have a feeling the city would quarantine any area of the sprawl
where such a disease breaks out. And even if PCs somehow get a major
disease, hospitals are well-equipped and ready to save your life (as long
as you have the nuyen to pay, of course).
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Rudely awakened by the telephone.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 01:38:18 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: First session as GM
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no quote: refer to earlier messages of asme name:-)
What about a simple ;D snatch and grab? corp defector, techie corp
decker, R&D, whatever. :o)
Caun :}
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 01:52:17 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: [OT] AltMagick group
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Does anybody kno about the Alt Magick group, it as listed somehere hen I
as surfing for more SR stuff so it might have been on one of you pages.
feel free to respond via personal e-mail and thanks for the help :)
Caun :}
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:47:45 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Hallucinogens in SR
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970723192927.3577a976@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Bull said on 19:27/23 Jul 97...
> Of course, considering my impending Wendigo-ism (??:)), I LIKE Bloody
> Meat... gee, DA, Dvixen, Spike, Gurth... You're all starting to look
> tasty...
*grabs SR rulebook, looks up wendigo* I think I need to get some kind of
steel weapon and a couple of sunlight bulbs soon...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Rudely awakened by the telephone.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:47:45 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
In-Reply-To: <27A435018E6@********.uibk.ac.at>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Simon T. Sailer said on 9:35/24 Jul 97...
> Would this power work against melee attacks If the attacker uses the
> willpower instead of the skill?
You HAVE to use Willpower instead of your skill, unless you have access to
things a weapon focus (presumably that must be bonded to you, although
SRII fails to mention that) or something that attacks the spirit's
Vulnerability weakness (for example, using a flamethrower on a water
elemental).
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Rudely awakened by the telephone.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:47:45 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Hallucinogens in SR
In-Reply-To: <19970723.181225.10550.1.Spamquat@****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Joshua T Brown said on 18:12/23 Jul 97...
Wow, two posts in one day! Getting active? :)
> Any ideas on the game mechanics/effects for the use of hallucinogens in
> SR? Peyote, LSD, Shrooms... How hard might they be to acquire?
A good place to start would be Wordman's drug list, available on the net
in various places including my web site (incorporated into the Running
Gear RTF file). It gives game stats (using the Shadowtech rules, with some
minor house rules expansions (just though I'd warn you in advance :) for
things like after-effects) as well as prices and availabilities.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Rudely awakened by the telephone.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:55:42 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [Sorta OT again] My AD&D Game and Thanks
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.96.970723144155.1206A-100000@*******.cs.uml.edu> from
"Steven A. Collins" at Jul 23, 97 02:54:33 pm
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|Gee when I was 10 no one had ever heard the name Atari, and video
|games were called Pinball. But there was this hot new thing called
|pong. It was sorta like playing tennis on a television. Then again D&D
|didn't really exist then it was called chainmail.
|I think I'm starting to feel old now
Welcome to the "GODS, I feel old!" club....
:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:05:29 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Hallucinogens in SR
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970723192927.3577a976@*****.com> from "Bull" at
Jul 23,
97 07:27:37 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|Well, if their Indian Shamans, they just have a good old time popping
|shrooms and stuff, and it definately helps them have "vision quests" :]
|
|Other characters I'd be more inclined to make them roleplay and deal with
|addiction, depending on how serious it was and how I was feeling a t the
|time...
Hate to break it to you, but LSD isn't addictive....
In fact, the way it works, it is in fact counter-addictive.
You see, when you take LSD, you build up a tolerance to it.
If you took the same amount the next day, you'd have a much reduced effect.
Take double the abount and it'd give a similar effect.
This tolerance continues to build, until it has no effect whatsoever, no
matter how much you take...
In order to have a trip of the same intensity as the first, with the same
amount, you have to wait a couple of weeks for the tolerance to wear off....
|>Welp, off to finish catching up on my unread mails.... I'm down to under
|>900 now....
|><smirk>
|><throws in the bloody steak>
|>CATCH!
|>
|Hey now, thanks!
I thought you might like it Bull....
Looks like the thirst for blood starting to show....
(How tall have you got so far, you grey furred thingy you??? ;-p )
|Of course, considering my impending Wendigo-ism (??:)), I LIKE Bloody
|Meat... gee, DA, Dvixen, Spike, Gurth... You're all starting to look
|tasty...
Eeeeeek! Runs and hides under Gurths stairs again.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:12:38 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [Admin] Misc and FAQ Stuff
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970723211154.006cfcb4@****.lis.ab.ca> from "Adam
J"
at Jul 23, 97 09:11:54 pm
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|I desperately want a second PC, so I can install Linux and actually
|learn how to use it this time.. donations greatfully accepted.. :)
Errr....
You do realise it's possible to partition your hard drive and use different
partitions for different OSs don't you?
I know someone who had Win95 on one, linus on another and I think OS2 on a
third.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 13:11:06 +0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Technomancer <arvanit@**D.UCH.GR>
Subject: Re: [Sorta OT] A new game and advice -Reply
In-Reply-To: <199707221720.TAA01723@*****.xs4all.nl>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
OK, since your players come from M:TG backgroun give it to them:
They can all be minions of an ultra-powerful wizard fighting another one
for control of magical lands and strange artifacts (use the names from
M:TG).
*********************************************************************
* Technomancer * Modesty is one of my countless virtues *
* arvanit@***.uch.gr *
* http://www.csd.uch.gr/~arvanit/ *
*********************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:42:16 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Rob Davies <Rob.Davies@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Two quick questions...
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Can anyone explain the phrase, 'Once a player has
allocated Magic Rating Points to "buy" a power, that
power cannot be changed, but it can be upgraded by
spending more Magic Points at a later time.' (Page 126,
SRII.)
I understand the killing hands S->D example but where
do the 'more Magic points' come from?
How can a physical adept improve & gain new Phys. Ad.
abilities? Increasing their magic score is not allowed,
Do they just use karma as magic points?
On a different topic, which SR book contain info on
grading clinics (detla, etc)?
Sorry if this is rehashing old ground - I'm new(ish)
here. Thanks
Rob.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Rob Davies. Rob.Davies@**.cf.ac.uk
Department of Computer Science, http://www.cs.cf.ac.uk/
University of Wales, Cardiff, Phone +44 1222 874812
PO Box 916, Cardiff, CF2 3XF. Fax +44 1222 874598
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:36:48 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: First session as GM
Justin Pinnow writes
>
> I developed 27 contacts (not bad for 3 PCs, eh?), all with personalities,
> edges, and flaws. I also started an introductory run that Mr. Tinner was
> kind enough to lend me the idea for (Romi-0 and Juli-8). So far, it seems
> to be going well.
>
dedication!
> 1. I have a player who is very involved in developing his PC (this is a
> good thing). However, he wants to carry out in-character conversations
> over the phone, e-mail, and in person on the side (in between gaming
> sessions). I don't really have time for all that,
It would be very nice if we had the time for this sort of thing, but
the real world invariably gets in the way. Very good of the player
but.
> Here's the question (now that I have bored you to death with background
> information): How do I allow the PCs to live out their lives, with all
> that entails, without boring the other players to death in the meantime? I
> want to keep them all occupied, but I can only have one serious
> in-character conversation at a time. Any suggestions?
>
Basically there is no easy answer to this one (unless you know how to
create 48 hour days, in which case we could all use the secret).
There are a few things that work, doing things while waiting for
the last couple of players to show up, or after the session if you
reach a vonvenient break with half an hour to go before everyones got
to go home and the next sections a big firefight or something
similarly awkward to break up. Otherwise do what you can in downtime
sessions, see each player in turn for what they want to chat about,
try and keep it quick, while the rest prepare their shopping lists,
roleplay amongst themselves etc. If you require player who want
things bought off fixers to look up the cost, street indexs and
availability data for you and write it down you can save a lot of
time wasted while you look them up yourself.
Sometimes on roleplaying heavy encounters/runs you just have to deal
with groups seperately, not good but if you keep it quick and
everyone pays attention (and they deal with any character to
character stuff while you are busy and then give you a brief version)
it can work, gets real fun on the GM workload if you have 8 Pc's
about 3 Johnsons hiring (or trying to) different PC's to do different
things and they are all busy talking to each other at once. Sessions
like this vary (i have reached a stage where all the players were so
busy i actually had nothing to do for 5 minutes!, but such things
usually result from luck, some days the intercharacter roleplaying
works some days everyone just gets bored), i don't usually let things
get that complex! i couldn't wnder why.
> 2. I am trying to come up with campaign/adventure/run ideas that do not
> revolve around rare magical artifacts, vampires, raiding megacorps, etc. I
> want to start the players off with a few simple (generic?) runs that aren't
> too overwhelming. Then, after a few sessions, I will lay the good stuff on
> them. ;) I am really short on ideas, but if anyone cares to share their
> ideas or past run experiences with me, I would greatly appreciate it (and
> so would my players, but they wouldn't really be aware of it). :)
>
Sprawl sites is a good start for minor stuff but will wear thin
eventually, (though acquiring a copy may be utterly impossible) some
of the runs in the Shadowland mags are quite usable as well.
More ideas when i have time.
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 12:48:03 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Hallucinogens in SR
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970723191047.006e4764@****.lis.ab.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 23-Jul-97 wrote Adam J:
>I already ate mine. Fight with the wendigo :-)
Hmmm. . . . I must first search my anti-Wendigo gear. . . .
found it. . . . OK lets go
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:44:28 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Greg Wright <greg.wright@*******.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Two quick questions...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Can anyone explain the phrase, 'Once a player has
>allocated Magic Rating Points to "buy" a power, that
>power cannot be changed, but it can be upgraded by
>spending more Magic Points at a later time.' (Page 126,
>SRII.)
>
>I understand the killing hands S->D example but where
>do the 'more Magic points' come from?
>
>How can a physical adept improve & gain new Phys. Ad.
>abilities? Increasing their magic score is not allowed,
>Do they just use karma as magic points?
>
>[Greg Wright] The Adept Gets Extra Points For Initiation
>
>On a different topic, which SR book contain info on
>grading clinics (detla, etc)?
>[Greg Wright] I Beleive Alpha And Beta Grades Are in the street Samurai
>Catalouge, Delta is Found in CyberTechnology as are updates to Alpha And Beta
>Sorry if this is rehashing old ground - I'm new(ish)
>here. Thanks
>
>[Greg Wright] No Probs
>
Grim Reaper
"It Sure Is Shocking, When Death Comes Knocking."
Grim_reaper@********.com
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:50:37 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Two quick questions...
In-Reply-To: <199707241042.LAA04506@*****.cs.cf.ac.uk> from "Rob Davies"
at
Jul 24, 97 11:42:16 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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|
|Can anyone explain the phrase, 'Once a player has
|allocated Magic Rating Points to "buy" a power, that
|power cannot be changed, but it can be upgraded by
|spending more Magic Points at a later time.' (Page 126,
|SRII.)
|I understand the killing hands S->D example but where
|do the 'more Magic points' come from?
Two possibilities.
1> He didn't spend all his Magic at once.....
2> He initiated. See below....
|How can a physical adept improve & gain new Phys. Ad.
|abilities? Increasing their magic score is not allowed,
|Do they just use karma as magic points?
Don't tell me... Let me guess....
You don't have the Grimoire, right?
In the Grimoire (manual of magic),it brings in the concept of initiation.
When a mage initiates, every grade above grade 0 increases his Magic rating
by 1. If he happens to be a PA, he can "spend" it on some more
powers/abilities.....
|On a different topic, which SR book contain info on
|grading clinics (detla, etc)?
|
|Sorry if this is rehashing old ground - I'm new(ish)
|here. Thanks
|
|Rob.
|-----------------------------------------------------------
|Rob Davies. Rob.Davies@**.cf.ac.uk
|Department of Computer Science, http://www.cs.cf.ac.uk/
|University of Wales, Cardiff, Phone +44 1222 874812
|PO Box 916, Cardiff, CF2 3XF. Fax +44 1222 874598
|
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 07:28:47 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Kristling the Weird <kristlingweird@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: First session as GM
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Justin Pinnow writes
<Snip>
> > Here's the question (now that I have bored you to death with background
> > information): How do I allow the PCs to live out their lives, with all
> > that entails, without boring the other players to death in the meantime? I
> > want to keep them all occupied, but I can only have one serious
> > in-character conversation at a time. Any suggestions?
> >
I somtimes do entire sessions where the players are "between jobs".
Once, a rather humurous incident involving Doc Wagon, a soy- burger
joint, and a former client occured. Anyone want to hear the story?
--
Kristling The Weird
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/5482/
kristlingweird@*********.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 07:31:44 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Kristling the Weird <kristlingweird@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Hallucinogens in SR
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Gurth wrote:
>
> Bull said on 19:27/23 Jul 97...
>
> > Of course, considering my impending Wendigo-ism (??:)), I LIKE Bloody
> > Meat... gee, DA, Dvixen, Spike, Gurth... You're all starting to look
> > tasty...
>
> *grabs SR rulebook, looks up wendigo* I think I need to get some kind of
> steel weapon and a couple of sunlight bulbs soon...
>
Gee, gurth.... You want me to use my "Blow Up Weindigos" spell?
--
Kristling The Weird
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/5482/
kristlingweird@*********.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 13:18:04 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: First session as GM
Kristling the Weird writes
> I somtimes do entire sessions where the players are "between jobs".
> Once, a rather humurous incident involving Doc Wagon, a soy- burger
> joint, and a former client occured. Anyone want to hear the story?
Sounds interesting :)
Amazing how much fun can be had with simple encounters, the old one
from sprawl site involving a van which when encountered is rocking
gently back and forth on its springs, comes to mind. Assuming the
characters are curious and have some compassion real fun can ensue
when open the back and a griffin jumps out! I have seen a PC turned
into a bed for the thing before now (he survived but wasn't very
happy), feeding griffins on sweets is not a good idea especially if
they find out where the shopping mall you are buying the sweets from
is located :)
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 07:26:34 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Joshua T Brown <spamquat@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Your .Sig [OT]
David Buehrer-san wa kakimashita -
>--
>"ahh, kamisama! watashi no atama ni ono ga arimasu!"
>
Nihon'go wa chotto hanashimasu ga wakarimasen' deshita.....
Errrr.... I mean I speak a fair bit of Japanese... (It's currently
accounting for 15 credit hours in my summer collegiate courses) but I
have NO IDEA what it is you were trying to say with that last bit of
oddly phrased signature material... perhaps your use of particles is
confounding me, or your structuring is A) Beyond my limited command of
the language or B) directly taken from a eewajiten or similar reference
book....
My main question is "Your head is WHERE/WHAT?" Always trying to pick up
more of this insanely difficult language.....
Biiru o happondake nomimashita! - Something NOT to say to a police
officer who stops you. Trust me. <smirk>
==============================================================
The Kumquat -- Josh Brown -- Kumquat@*****.com -- Spamquat@****.com --
Shadowrun Page Still Under Development -- Coming Soon!
"Support Whirled Peas" -- <smirk> -- "Whatever, Man" --
"Woo Hoo!" --
....Don't hate me Because I'm... ahh, screw it, hate me. <smirk>
==============================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 13:30:53 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: Two quick questions...
Rob Davies writes
> Can anyone explain the phrase, 'Once a player has
> allocated Magic Rating Points to "buy" a power, that
> power cannot be changed, but it can be upgraded by
> spending more Magic Points at a later time.' (Page 126,
> SRII.)
>
Ah ha!
This has two interpretations both of which are correct.
1) you don't have to allocate all your points at startup and may save
some to allocate later which may then be spent to upgrade powers etc.
2) If you manage to 'acquire' more magic points you may use these to
upgrade your existing powers
> I understand the killing hands S->D example but where
> do the 'more Magic points' come from?
Any left over from startup (SR2 doesn't state it but as i noted above
you don't actually have to spend all of them at character generation,
or any you gain during the game.
> How can a physical adept improve & gain new Phys. Ad.
> abilities? Increasing their magic score is not allowed,
'Not directly' is the correct answer, the main rulebook ignores the
existence of further rules to be found in the Grimoire, which refers
to this rule you are having problems with and explains it. As Spike
suggested you need initiation. There are a lot of problems with the
SR magic system because basic concepts such as this are delt with in
the main rulebook and then relied upon for the use of stuff
introduced in the grimoire, but appart from a few 'this will be
expanded on in the grimoire' 's in SR2 the SR ignores the options in
the grimoire despite the fact that the writers new all to well from
1st ed that the rules were going to be in GR2.
> Do they just use karma as magic points?
No.
>
> On a different topic, which SR book contain info on
> grading clinics (detla, etc)?
Streets Sams catalogue (Alpha and beta) or cybertechnology (which
introduces delta were properly (there being references to the stuff in
Tir Na nOG but little data as that is intended for NPC's only)
> Sorry if this is rehashing old ground - I'm new(ish)
> here. Thanks
>
Thats ok you just found 'one of those rules'. SR is full of them
despite FASA's attempts to minimise the problem. It's waht keeps this
list going so well. The only really workable solution would to be to
go over compatability with other rules in painfull detail each time a
new concept is introduced which would probably waste more paper than
it would solve problems :(
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 08:41:10 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hallucinogens in SR
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:05 AM 7/24/97 +0100, Spike wrote these timeless words:
[SNIP stuff on LSD]
Well, I know little to nothing about drugs, so... But when I mentioned
Addiction, I was simply referring to Kumquat's question about drugs and
addiction in general (Though I believe most of the drugs listed are only
mildy addictive, but I could be wrong...)
Hey, what do you want from a guy who doesn;t drink, smoke, or do any drugs,
and doesn;t have any friends who do them either? My only addiction is
gaming, and that's more than addictive enough (Just ask my new AD&D group.
:) They showed up and wanted me to run again last night, and have me
running again on Friday!)
>|>Welp, off to finish catching up on my unread mails.... I'm down to under
>|>900 now....
>|><smirk>
>|><throws in the bloody steak>
>|>CATCH!
>|>
>|Hey now, thanks!
>
>I thought you might like it Bull....
>Looks like the thirst for blood starting to show....
>(How tall have you got so far, you grey furred thingy you??? ;-p )
>
Actually, I'm just slightly fuzzy... Like I haven;t shaved in a week... We
haven;t had the chance to RP any further, so...;]
>|Of course, considering my impending Wendigo-ism (??:)), I LIKE Bloody
>|Meat... gee, DA, Dvixen, Spike, Gurth... You're all starting to look
>|tasty...
>
>Eeeeeek! Runs and hides under Gurths stairs again.....
>
<grin>
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 07:17:16 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
In-Reply-To: <199707240859.CAA15059@******> from "Gurth" at Jul 24,
97 10:57:55 am
Content-Type: text
Gurth wrote:
|
| David Buehrer said on 7:14/23 Jul 97...
|
[snip: diseases and toxins]
|
| > I think I'm going to do some RL research on this. Look forward to
| > something in the future :)
|
| How many times do PCs or important NPCs get infected by a disease in SR
| anyway? Because that's the only time this sort of info will come in handy.
| The only game I've seen that really attempts to cover diseases in depth is
| Twilight: 2000, but given the background of the game it makes sense to
| give players a very real chance of infection with diseases like dysentery,
| cholera, typhoid fever, and several other nice things (hmm... I just
| noticed it lacks sexually transmitted diseases, which should also be
| a very real threat in that game, IMHO...).
Thanks, I'll look for a copy of Twilight: 2000 to get started.
| In Shadowrun I guess you could find some of those in the Barrens, but I
| also have a feeling the city would quarantine any area of the sprawl
| where such a disease breaks out. And even if PCs somehow get a major
| disease, hospitals are well-equipped and ready to save your life (as long
| as you have the nuyen to pay, of course).
The characters in my game to travel internationally from time to
time, and that's when they have a chance of catching some disease in
a third world country, or a disease that the PCs don't have a
resistance to. I think it would be interesting to have a PC running
through an adventure while suffering from a low fever and chills.
And of course after the run he feels fine while everyone else is laid
up :) And don't forget the paranormal critters that transmit VITAS
(some sort of mutant flamingo?, I can't remember at the moment).
Also, what with corporations getting creative about disposing of
toxic waste I thing that's a perfect opportunity to start off an
adventure by poisoning a PC (or friend of) and having the PCs hunt
down who is responsible.
As an EGM I just like to have a full bag of tricks :) And, I wan't
to put something substantial on my webpage.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 07:23:23 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: ShadowRN FAQ Part II
In-Reply-To: <199707240613.AAA09854@******> from "Adam J" at Jul 23,
97 09:27:49 pm
Content-Type: text
I'm sorry, I just couldn't resist :)
Adam J wrote:
|
| (adapted from a Frequently Reposted Message by Doctor Doom)
>Translated by me.
>Magaga
| When one seeks to juxtapose one's own views with an earlier
| message, i.e. reply to an anterior posting, one should:
|
| 1. Facilitate differentiation between original and cited
| material by denoting text from the former correspondence
| with initial line characters (">" and "]" being
typical),
| rather than simply append one's own material at the end.
>Quote the post you're replying too.
>Magaga
| 2. Quote, or cite, only those lines pertinent to your reply
| or commentary, that is to say, avoid repeating the entire
| message. With over 200 messages some days coming through
| ShadowRN, this is extremely important.
>Don't waste space.
>Magaga
| 3. Quote the earlier posting previous to insertion of one's
| own script, RATHER than including the preceding post at
| the end of your message. Hence, observers may see what
| instigated one's reaction, and following that,
| specifically what one's reaction or reply actually was.
| In line with this is the popular procedure that
| "intermingles" the respective texts, by which one replies
| to specific lines of text individually, followed by
| another citation, followed by more response material, and
| so forth.
>Make it pretty.
>Magaga
| 4. Indicate the prior posting's authorship by identifying
| said message's originator at the beginning of the earlier
| material, and not by the inclusion of the (typically)
| multiple-line signature file.
>Give credit where credit is due.
>Magaga
| I only mention this in interests of the greater good and due to
| the fact that others have made similar complaints. It is poor
| Net etiquette for those who choose to plow through the volume
| of mail this list produces and to have to contend with such
| obviously unnecessary verbiage -- especially those members who
| must actually PAY for electronic mail service.
>Don't piss people off.
>Magaga
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 15:27:47 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Clen Cook <Clen@******.CO.ZA>
Subject: Re: First Session as a GM
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Myself and a friend(Bruce) GM'd a group of newbies a while back. They
had never played before, and so we decided to chuck them into the
deep-end - in a nice sorta way.
The players were mistaken for some other "bad" people that just did a
run against a large company. So, in the first ten minutes of their
first SR experience, they have LoneStar, the corps sec' team, and the
usual nasties out to get them. They ran around Seattle meeting all
sorts of interesting people, doing a fair bit of roleplaying while
trying to stay alive.
Quick and dirty. The session lasted about three hours. We weren't too
heavy on them, letting them barely escape each time.
Something fast and furious that has a little of everything in the SR
world in it.
Clen
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:13:58 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: [SR3] Geasa
Hoi, fellow listmembers, it's me again. Got another idea to run by you. I
know it is difficult to discuss ideas and changes to the game system in a
vacuum, since one change often requires changes elsewhere to compensate. I
appreciate the feedback from the list and it's given me some valuable
viewpoints on ideas proposed so far.
The latest idea involves geasa. In 1st edition SR, geasa were part of the
process of losing Magic attribute points, making it more difficult to use
magic the more Magic you lost. A burn-out could still cast formidable spells,
however, because the Resistance of the spell was based on Sorcery rather than
spell Force. In 2nd edition, with the shift from Sorcery to Force, a burn-out
is very limited in casting effective spells. A burned-out mage with a Magic
of 2 cannot cast a spell with a Force higher than 2 without risking physical
drain: a Force 2 spell isn't likely to affect many targets. The burnout could
currently use fetishes and exclusive modifers along with foci to improve the
Magic rating and spell Force, of course.
But it seems to me geasa are something of a double-whammy in SR2. In SR1
spellcasting ability didn't greatly diminish with loss of Magic attribute;
most of the Magic 6 magicians were throwing Force 1-2 spells themselves to
take advantage of lower Drain. In SR2 when you lose Magic, not only are your
spells generally less effective, but you also have to do more to even make
the magic happen in the first place.
So, how about this: instead of the present system, allow magical characters
who lose a Magic attribute point to take a Geas *to get the Magic point
back.* As long as the character follows the geas, their Magic rating remains
what it was. If they break the geas, the lose the use of that point of Magic
until the geas is obeyed again. Each Magic point lost would require a
seperate geas (unlike the present system where a geas is required for every 2
points lost).
For example, our burned-out mage with the Magic rating of 2 has four geasa:
incantation, gesture, talisman and time (night). When he casts spells at
night and can get all of his chants, gestures and trinkets in a row, his
Magic attribute is 6, but has has to (as SR1 put it) "fumble with amulets,
powders and chants to cast a spell he once invoked with a flick of his
fingers." When he casts spells during the day, he can still fulfill three of
his geasa, raising his Magic to 5, but the time geas is broken and its point
of Magic cannot be used.
One advantage to this system is it would allow Magic loss to work more the
same for magicians and physical adepts. A physad could likewise take a geas
on a lost Magic point, applying the geas to 1 point-worth of their powers.
This works like a normal physad geas (from Awakenings) except, instead of a
cost-break, the adept gets to keep the Magic point and the powers as long as
the geas is unbroken.
An initiate who takes a geas ordeal essentially accepts a limit on the bonus
Magic point provided by the initiation. If the initiate follows the geas,
they get the Magic point, if they break it, they lose it until they live up
to the geas again.
This system would make burnout magicians more viable as magical characters
(perhaps too viable). Natrually, a character whose Magic drops to 0 or less
still becomes a mundane. A character can also choose to reject his geasa, in
which case he permanently loses the Magic points associated with them, and
cannot ever take other geasa, the character is on the path to burning out.
Naturally, one of the disadvantages is changing the existing system. I would
like to know what everything thinks about this and what the possible
ramifications might be. Remember, none of this is written in stone (or even
in mud, at this point). We're just tossing around ideas. Mike can (and may)
still decide the only things the SR2 magic system needs fixed are spell locks
and grounding (his personal pet peeves).
Stick to the shadows,
Steve
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:19:42 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gossamer <kajohnson@*******.TEC.WI.US>
Subject: Re: Your .Sig [OT]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >"ahh, kamisama! watashi no atama ni ono ga arimasu!"
> >
> Nihon'go wa chotto hanashimasu ga wakarimasen' deshita...
Actually, this phrase is more correctly given as:
Nihongo ga mama dekimasu kedo chotto wakarimasen deshita
(I speak Japanee ok, but I totally didn't understand [what you said])
> but I have NO IDEA what it is you were trying to say with
> that last bit of oddly phrased signature material... perhaps
> your use of particles is confounding me, or your structuring
> is A) Beyond my limited command of the language or
> B) directly taken from a eewajiten or similar reference book....
I believe that it's because he's using a slang word for 'ass'. My
dictionary lists a couple of definitions for 'ono', one of which is
'ass' (slang). My jibiki is a bit out of date...
> My main question is "Your head is WHERE/WHAT?" Always
> trying to pick up more of this insanely difficult language.....
>
> Biiru o happondake nomimashita! - Something NOT to say
> to a police officer who stops you. Trust me. <smirk>
Instead of telling the poor cop you've been drinking, try this:
tama ga itaindesunee, kisu o kudasai
(my balls hurt, why don't you kiss them) [it helps if you rub
your crotch while doing this one (sorry ladies you can't play)]
Or... anata no onna ni noritai da yo (I want to ride your woman)
[this is especially insulting for a couple of reasons: first, using
'onna' for woman is incredibly insulting, second the word 'ride'
here is slang for 'having sex in a derrogatory/dehumanizing way',
and finally, even saying this phrase is suggesting that the man's
woman is a whore and he is, therefore, not a very proper man]
Or... kamo o shinasai, baka (go fuck a duck! you idiot!)
Or... doonato o tabenasai, baka (go eat a donut, you idiot!)
Or(less insulting)... baka daroo (are you an idiot?)
[literally, you're probably an idiot/fool/moron]
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 14:45:20 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bruce <gyro@********.CO.ZA>
Subject: Re: First Session as a GM
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:27 PM 24-07-97 +0200, you wrote:
>Myself and a friend(Bruce) GM'd a group of newbies a while back. They
>had never played before, and so we decided to chuck them into the
>deep-end - in a nice sorta way.
>
There were three of us Clen 'ol buddy 'ol pal. Anyone else got expierience
in multi GM gaming that would like to share some tips?
BRUCE
"the only difference between me and you is that I like me"
-ME.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:27:00 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Two quick questions...
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:42 AM 7/24/97 +0100, Rob Davies wrote these timeless words:
>Can anyone explain the phrase, 'Once a player has
>allocated Magic Rating Points to "buy" a power, that
>power cannot be changed, but it can be upgraded by
>spending more Magic Points at a later time.' (Page 126,
>SRII.)
>
>I understand the killing hands S->D example but where
>do the 'more Magic points' come from?
>
>How can a physical adept improve & gain new Phys. Ad.
>abilities? Increasing their magic score is not allowed,
>Do they just use karma as magic points?
>
Actually, you CAN improve your Magic Rating if you're a Phys-Ad or a
Magician (or some combo thereof...:)). This is done through Initiation
which, among other things, grants you additional points of magic ratiing...
See the Grimoire for more rules on initioan and Meta Magic.
>On a different topic, which SR book contain info on
>grading clinics (detla, etc)?
>
Alpha and Beta were mentioned in the SSC (Street Samurai Catalog), and They
were rehashed and Delta Grade added in Cybertechnology.
>Sorry if this is rehashing old ground - I'm new(ish)
>here. Thanks
>
Well then, seems the BOT gets to do Some work again! :]
Well...
+++++ BULL-BOT ACTIVATED
+++++ AUTO GREET INITIATED
Hello there, new list-member Rob! Welcome to the Shadowrn Mailing List!
It's a great place, with good people and great discussion! hope ya like mail!
+++++ AUTO OFF TOPIC RANDOM GENERATOR v3.0 INITIATED
+++++ TOPIC #410
Do you know the Secret SR Handshake, and own the SR Secret Decoder Ring?
+++++ END AUTO GREET
Bull-the-welcome-Ork-Decker
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:42:37 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Collins" <scollins@**.UML.EDU>
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
In-Reply-To: <199707241317.HAA04747@******>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 24 Jul 1997, David Buehrer wrote:
->Gurth wrote:
->| How many times do PCs or important NPCs get infected by a disease in SR
->| anyway? Because that's the only time this sort of info will come in handy.
Well after a recent run in with a Toxic Shaman associated with
Winternight, where they were not to hiding their interferrence in
his plans to well half, the party was infected with a super flu that
the shaman was developing. it resulted in 1 death, and laying 4 others
up in the hospital for varying ammounts of time. the longest being the
Troll samuari, 7 months, and the shortest being Spiderman the human
Physad who was in the hospital for only 2 months. The rest of the
party did manage to kill the guy off though, now if they could only
get the rest of the guy's Winternight cell off their backs{BEGMG}.
->| The only game I've seen that really attempts to cover diseases in depth is
->| Twilight: 2000, but given the background of the game it makes sense to
->| give players a very real chance of infection with diseases like dysentery,
->| cholera, typhoid fever, and several other nice things (hmm... I just
->| noticed it lacks sexually transmitted diseases, which should also be
->| a very real threat in that game, IMHO...).
True sexually xmitted diseases should be a real concern for characters
living low lifestyles or less but I try to keep most aspects of
sexuality out of my game. The reason, as the GM i just can't
realistically roleplay a woman who the character is trying to "score"
with.
>>snip EGM ideas and twilight 2000 stuff<<
->up :) And don't forget the paranormal critters that transmit VITAS
->(some sort of mutant flamingo?, I can't remember at the moment).
It's called a boorobie and there are a few others as well the Greater
wolverine i believe is one.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 08:48:03 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: [OT] Linux (Was Re: [Admin] Misc and FAQ Stuff)
In-Reply-To: <6506.199707241012@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:12 7/24/97 +0100, you wrote:
>|I desperately want a second PC, so I can install Linux and actually
>|learn how to use it this time.. donations greatfully accepted.. :)
>
>Errr....
>You do realise it's possible to partition your hard drive and use different
>partitions for different OSs don't you?
Yes Spike, I'm not a twit :) (Really!)
I've done that, I just hate doing it.. besides, I don't have the hard drive
space left on this machine.
-Aj
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
GC3.1 GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 16:52:23 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Clen Cook <Clen@******.CO.ZA>
Subject: Multiple GMs
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Does anyone have any experience at multiple GMimg?
Bruce, Erica and myself did it for a while.
Hmm, like Bruce asks - is there anyone with any ideas out there?
Clen
-- Waiting for redemption --
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 08:51:20 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: ShadowRN FAQ Part IIIa *GRUMBLE*
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
ShadowRN FAQ, Part III
Last modified July 23rd 1997
Version 1.1
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Frequently Asked Questions for SHADOWRN@***tproc.iTribe.net
Originally compiled, Adam Jury
With editing and additions by The members of ShadowRN
Based on past ShadowRN FAQ's and postings.
PLEASE NOTE: I am aware this is FAR from complete. I'm working on
it slowly but steadily.
----------------------------------------
The current version of this file can always be found as listed below:
The ShadowRN FAQ's are available at Adam's page:
http://www.geocities.com/area51/6112/lists.html
You can also email <fro@***.ab.ca> to request the current version of
the FAQ
The web page will most likely be on the move soon, but notification
will be posted and the FAQ updated.
There is a copyright notice at the bottom of each section of this
FAQ.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Part III: Posting Pointers
I. INTRODUCTION
1. General ShadowRN posting guidelines.
2. List history, slang, theme song!
3. Specific Beaten-to-death questions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
1. General ShadowRN posting guidelines.
While the topic of this list is specifically related to
Shadowrun, it has been determined that the topic encompasses
far more than the specific rules within the FASA manuals. Part
of the all-important part of any role-paying game is the
atmosphere that the players find themselves in. Often, this
cannot be adaquately explained within the written rules.
To this end, there is a very liberal posting policy with
regards to topics. This is to allow everyday babble and
observations to create a virtual society of sorts on the list,
and to give all who participate in and opportunity to explore
that society.
Thus, you will often see postings that are only vaguely related
to Shadowrun being posted. Often this has to do with politics
(especially information politics) or with recent technological
breakthroughs. While there are no hard-set rules with regards
to what off-topic postings are permitted, it should be reminded
that we all come here because of our interest in Shadowrun, so
postings should at the very least be of interest to all, and be
within the umbrella of being source material for the Shadowrun
society.
Officially, the following actions will take place with regards
to off-topic postings.
1. Non-Shadowrun threads that live for more that 24 hours
will be pointed out by the listowners. At that time,
either make the thread once again Shadowrun relevant or
take it to private email.
2. If after 48 hours, the thread still continues, the
listowner will start deleting people from the list. If
that happens, you are free to come back, but at the very
least, the deletion will serve as a warning to stay
relevant.
If you are posting something Off Topic, please prefix it with
the header [OT], so people know that it is off topic and can
choose to ignore it if they wish.
Persons who repeatedly violate the rules and disrupt the use of
the list by others will be be dealt on a case-by-case basis,
but action can include (but is not limited to): temporary
removal from the list (for example, six months), permanent
removal from the list or notification to the violator's
sysadmin or service provider.
Chain Letters
Do not send chain letters to ShadowRN. This includes the good
times virus, 'Good luck/forward this to 10 friends' emails,
etc.
File Attachements
NEVER attach a file to any document sent to the ShadowRN list.
If somebody wants to see a document you wrote up, send it
privately to those who want it. The reasons for no
attachements are very simple. Some people pay for space on a
server, and a 100K MS word document would not ussually be
appreaciated. The other reason has to do with software and
internet protocols. People on the list use many
different mailers on many different platforms. Elm and Pine
for Unix are both used, Eudora for Win/Mac, Pegasus mail, Ms
and several others are all used. One of these programs sends
an attachement, say for the sake of argument it sends
'winmail.dat'. Depending on the file type, and the protocol it
was sent under, it may not be decoded on the other end, or it
doesn't mean anything anyways when you get it.
This is what winmail.dat looks like on my system:
xŸ>"
ä è €=
IPM.Microsoft Mail.Note 1 €
8 0
ÿ=
O + ¤¾£n ÝT Shadowrun
Discussion SMTP SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET 0 SMTP
0=
SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET þ
0 =
'Shadowrun
Discussion' 0 " SMTP:SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET 9
@:=
ö
E8€ RE: Orichalcum bullets.
A€ =
Ì # €
Ì + C € !
3A0B6146992BD011BE020040051D8A6B=
ë ´
# & ) . 6 @ 9 `Q€?>À» p
RE: Orichalcum=
bullets. q
»À>?oFa ;+™Ð¾
@ Šk =
SMTP jhurley1 gÑ(§
Ô
=
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MARTYSMTP:S457033@*******GUEDUAUWROTE:YEAH,BUTTHEBUGSSTILLHAVEFORCE,ORFORCEX
2*NATURAL*ARMORONTOPOFTH
2 . à LZFu:7ƒKÿ
¤äë=
ƒ PT ch Àsetn2
Ã2F
pprq1 U²€} €Ï
This file is sent accidently by many people using MS Mail.
Before you post to the list, check if its sending attachements.
Easiest way to do that is to send yourself an email. If you
still aren't sure, email me at <fro@***.ab.ca> and I will
help you out. Also several new email programs can send
messages in HTML. Please do not do that, even on machines that
can read it, it takes twice as long to load the message, and on
machines that can't read it, it looks horrible.
Return Reciepts and High Priority
When posting a message to the list, do not request a return
reciept. It can get kind of hairy when 200 people send you
one! Also, do not raise the priority of your message above
normal. Both of those are unnessesary and just cause more
hassle.
2. ShadowRN Slang, Theme song.
Common Net.Speak
These are some common acronyms you are likely to see on the list:
IMO : In My Opinion
IMHO : In My Humble Opinion
IMNSHO : In My Not So Humble Opinion
LOL : Laughing Out Loud
ROFL : Rolling On The Floor Laughing
ROFLMAO : Rolling On The Floor Laughing My Ass Off
AFAIK : As far As I Know
IIRC : If I Remember/Recall Correctly
RTFM : Read the F&^%$# Manual (Can also mean read the FAQ)
YMMV : Your Milage May Vary
Shadowrun Lexicon of Common Terminology
Compiled by: Doctor Doom
Edited by: Adam Jury
What follows is jargon frequently seen on the Shadowrun List, along
with definitions and histories, in order that one may be assisted in
familiarizing one's self with this discussion mailserver.
Common Term Definitions
FASA
The Freedonian Aeronautic and Space Administration. The
company which produces our own beloved Shadowrun, as well as
Earthdawn, another game with important ties with the
Shadowrun world. Discussion and reviews of recent FASA
products are fairly common upon the mailserver, as are
commentary regarding various rulings from The Dark Lord(Tom
Dowd, though now Mike Mulvihill).
The name Freedonia comes from the European country depicted
in "Duck Soup", a Marx Brothers film, in which Groucho Marx
portrays Rufus T. Firefly, President of Freedonia.
Fearless Leader
Term for the listowner, Mark Imbracio, and Adam, who is
Assistant Fearless Leader.
Coined in homage to the Rocky and Bullwinkle television
show; Fearless Leader was the man that Boris and Natasha
reported to.
Munchkin
Either noun or verb. Munchkinism is exhibited in two
primary forms of expression, that of rules
interpretation/implementation and power.
Munchkins tend to interpret rules in either the broadest
possible sense or such that benefits shall be
disproportionately bestowed, especially in exclusive favor
to their character. They consistently push the envelope of
the letter and spirit of the law in an effort to gain the
greatest (sometimes individual) latitude. Usually, areas
targeted for such pressure are instances where the published
rules are particularly vague or may not specifically apply,
i.e., loopholes.
Besides this, Munchkins are quite willing to take leave of
the game system to achieve their desires and demonstrate a
great willingness to alter, augment, or eliminate the rules
without paying due consideration to alternatives to or the
ramifications of their actions.
As has already been implied, the end product of all
Munchkins efforts lead to one thing: Power. Munchkins are
driven by the desire to become the most potent player in the
group/setting/world in which they are playing. Further, any
questions as to the believability (within the genre) or
feasibility of such exceedingly potent characters or are not
salient to the Munchkin. Also, Munchkins are generally very
reticent to create serious obstacles or problems for his
character, and typically they exhibit most grievous vexation
should the Game Master or other players frustrate his plans.
In line with this, they energetically seek to avoid any
disadvantages or costs in an effort to achieve their goals.
A Munchkin EXPECTS to win all the time.
True, it may be argued that the above behaviours are merely
natural tendencies, but they attain a certain fanaticism in
Munchkins.
NERPS
"Inside Joke" at the offices of FASA. According to them, it
originally stood for "Nothing Ever Really Pleases
Steve/Scott", although no particulars as to the identity as
to Steve or Scott were given. Appeared in FASA products as
early as Virtual Realities (p. 81) possibly earlier. Has
now taken on a life of its own.
This meaning is in question, and has been denied by some
FASA staff.
NOTE: Despite the natural tendency to interpret NERPS as a
jibe to Steve Jackson Game's product, GURPS, such
speculation is without foundation.
NERPS are the ultimate placebo. They may serve as a cure
(almost) for anything one might care to name: From the
common cold to nuclear war. NERPS are commonly used to
contend with Munchkins and just about anything else that
springs to mind.
Also a series of Shadowrun net.books, and a companion
mailing list at iTRiBE.NET
THWAP
The sound a wet carp makes when someone is struck with it;
also the act of striking someone with a wet carp.
The term was first used in the latter part of the year the
list became operational, when our Fearless Leader, Robert
Hayden, was experiencing considerable problems with his
mailer, such that all were receiving several copies of EVERY
posting he dispatched.
Howls of discontent were heard across the node. Tempers
were raised. Flames were exchanged.
On Thursday, 22 October 1992 (21:03:17 CET), Hayden, in an
attempt to soothe the raising ire of the other members as
well as offer an apology, infused a bit of levity in his
requesting pardon for the inconvenience, to wit:
"You can thwap me with a wet carp if it will make you feel
better."
And thus the concept was born. Immediately many list
members latched upon this rather novel idea. The first
actual THWAP was invoked by Doctor Doom on 22 October 1992,
15:31:00 CST, rapidly followed by Harlequin and Flare. A
legend was begun...
Since then, its has been used so frequently that the idea
took on a life of its own, and it is now a legitimate term,
even if only jargon. Thwaps are generally brought to bear
upon especially bizarre, silly, or Munchkinous ideas,
although their invocation usually indicates a degree of
levity and good-spiritedness. Thwaps are not meant for
spite--that purpose is served by flames.
TOLM WAPPERs (archaic)
Generic term for the denizens of the Shadowrun list.
Initially stood for Those Other List Members Which Are
Presently Perplexed at this Esoteric Rambling.
Other users are also collectively referred to as simply "the
list" on occasion.
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
GC3.1 GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:51:51 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:17:07 +0100 "Simon T. Sailer"
<Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT> writes:
>Well, if you rolled 4 sixes with 9 dice.... *grin* can you do it
>again?
>On an average roll, you will get 1 or two successes, and the spirit
>takes deadly damage.
Yes, and on an average roll, the sammie wouldn't have hit the broad side
of a very large barn with that full auto burst (the sammie's TN would
have been at least 13, 12 or 11 with a laser sight or smartlink,
respectively).
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:51:51 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Two quick questions...
On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:42:16 +0100 Rob Davies <Rob.Davies@**.CF.AC.UK>
writes:
>Can anyone explain the phrase, 'Once a player has
>allocated Magic Rating Points to "buy" a power, that
>power cannot be changed, but it can be upgraded by
>spending more Magic Points at a later time.' (Page 126,
>SRII.)
When the physad initiates (you're gonna need to get the Grimoire for this
one, pal:), he can use the new magic points to get new physad powers.
>Do they just use karma as magic points?
No, they do not.
>On a different topic, which SR book contain info on
>grading clinics (detla, etc)?
Probably the SSC and Cybertechnology.
>Sorry if this is rehashing old ground - I'm new(ish)
>here. Thanks
Hmmm...sounds like an opening for Bull, the list Welcome Wendigo:)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:57:41 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
In-Reply-To: <970724101351_-489911768@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> So, how about this: instead of the present system, allow magical
> characters who lose a Magic attribute point to take a Geas *to get
> the Magic point back.* As long as the character follows the geas,
> their Magic rating remains what it was. If they break the geas, the
> lose the use of that point of Magic until the geas is obeyed again.
> Each Magic point lost would require a seperate geas (unlike the
> present system where a geas is required for every 2 points lost).
I like with one exception. It works well with the concept...you can
still be powerful, but your power is restricted to the use of such
rituals.
My only exception is: Refusing to take the geasa....You called it
the path of the burnout. It seems the path of the burnout is the
other way. Refusing to take the geasa should give a small bonus,
countered by the knowledge that any future loss of magic is
permanent. Perhaps they can premanently "regain" one point of Magic
by refusing to take any Geasa? Just an idea. I like the idea of
geasa (like foci) being a slippery slope that (if you are unwise)
drag you into burnout....thus the mages that refuse to take that path
have some small advantage for the loss of power. Maybe Geasa have an
additional penalty? A greater chance of future magic loss? Yeah,
that's a good idea. When rolling for Magic Loss, incorporate the
number of Geasa the cahracter has. If you use that, then Burnouts
increase their risk in exchange for the benefit, and (in this case
forget that "regain" rule) those that refuse lose magic in the here
and now, but perhaps keep SOME ability for the future....
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 08:55:22 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Multiple GMs
In-Reply-To: <199707241847.QAA12464@******.sybase.co.za>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 16:52 7/24/97 +0200, you wrote:
>Does anyone have any experience at multiple GMimg?
>
>Bruce, Erica and myself did it for a while.
>
>Hmm, like Bruce asks - is there anyone with any ideas out there?
This depends.. are you using a) More than one GM per game session, or are
you b) rotating GM's between sessions..
I've never tried more than one GM a session, but I would advise you to not
try rotating GM's. All my friends do that for other games, and nothing
ever gets done, because they aren't competent enough to tie plot threads
together. Of course, you may be more competent :)
-Adam
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
GC3.1 GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:14:28 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Clen Cook <Clen@******.CO.ZA>
Subject: Re: Multiple GMs
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Adam J wrote:
>This depends.. are you using a) More than one GM per game session, or
are
>you b) rotating GM's between sessions..
We used option (a). It worked very well for a while. The problem was,
after a while you feel that you're putting on a show for your players.
Y'know - they end up watching YOU roleplaying.
Then again, maybe we should have played with better players.
But, it's worth trying if you want a whale of a time. All three GMs get
to play a different NPC, so it adds a whole new level to the game.
Clen
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 11:30:31 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Kristling the Weird <kristlingweird@*********.COM>
Organization: Founder & Supreme Dictator for Life, Lightmoon Project
Subject: IRC Campaign begins Friday at 5:00
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I'm accepting characters VIA e-Mail for acceptance into a Long term IRC
campaign. Privatly e-Mail me your characters background and stats. You
must be approved. The game channel is #deepshadow.
--
Kristling The Weird
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/5482/
kristlingweird@*********.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 16:37:23 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
Steve Kenson writes
>
> But it seems to me geasa are something of a double-whammy in SR2. In SR1
> spellcasting ability didn't greatly diminish with loss of Magic attribute;
> most of the Magic 6 magicians were throwing Force 1-2 spells themselves to
> take advantage of lower Drain. In SR2 when you lose Magic, not only are your
> spells generally less effective, but you also have to do more to even make
> the magic happen in the first place.
True though you generally have to mess up pretty bad to really like
cyberware to end up with more than one of the things.
> So, how about this: instead of the present system, allow magical characters
> who lose a Magic attribute point to take a Geas *to get the Magic point
> back.* As long as the character follows the geas, their Magic rating remains
> what it was. If they break the geas, the lose the use of that point of Magic
> until the geas is obeyed again. Each Magic point lost would require a
> seperate geas (unlike the present system where a geas is required for every 2
> points lost).
>
> For example, our burned-out mage with the Magic rating of 2 has four geasa:
> incantation, gesture, talisman and time (night). When he casts spells at
> night and can get all of his chants, gestures and trinkets in a row, his
> Magic attribute is 6, but has has to (as SR1 put it) "fumble with amulets,
> powders and chants to cast a spell he once invoked with a flick of his
> fingers." When he casts spells during the day, he can still fulfill three of
> his geasa, raising his Magic to 5, but the time geas is broken and its point
> of Magic cannot be used.
>
Certainly has possibilities though i find the existing system quite
ok, though i have only played 2nded edition so don't know in practice
how SR1 compares (though i have a pretty good idea from all i have
heard)
> One advantage to this system is it would allow Magic loss to work more the
> same for magicians and physical adepts. A physad could likewise take a geas
> on a lost Magic point, applying the geas to 1 point-worth of their powers.
> This works like a normal physad geas (from Awakenings) except, instead of a
> cost-break, the adept gets to keep the Magic point and the powers as long as
> the geas is unbroken.
True.
> An initiate who takes a geas ordeal essentially accepts a limit on the bonus
> Magic point provided by the initiation. If the initiate follows the geas,
> they get the Magic point, if they break it, they lose it until they live up
> to the geas again.
Which would be a nit nicer than the presently very unfriendly ordeal.
> This system would make burnout magicians more viable as magical characters
> (perhaps too viable).
Thats could be a serious point. There is a BIG advantage to a low
magic attribute in that your area effect spells start at a low radius
making them much more 'corridor friendly' without frying all your
team mates. The one really big disadvantage to initiation is the
sheer size of that fireball it becomes very difficult not to fry
everything you can see at close quarters, the enemy, cops, friends,
bystanders the lot.
> Naturally, one of the disadvantages is changing the existing system.
yeah.
> I would
> like to know what everything thinks about this and what the possible
> ramifications might be.
looks ok though i find the existing SR2 system quite acceptable, you
can cyber up magicians but at a cost.
> Remember, none of this is written in stone (or even
> in mud, at this point). We're just tossing around ideas.
Which has the advantage we can all fire away quite happily :)
> Mike can (and may)
> still decide the only things the SR2 magic system needs fixed are spell locks
yipee!
[i already do things about these]
> and grounding (his personal pet peeves).
Yah hoo!!!!
[favourite list flame bait topic [warning for recent arrivals] as most
know :), this one really can attract Carp]
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:41:59 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Collins" <scollins@**.UML.EDU>
Subject: Skill Levels
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Ok I have recently seen a number of people in state in various
topics that a skill level of 6 is exceptionaly high and makes one an
expert on the subject/in the activity. This is somewhat backed up by
the Contacts listed in the books, where most people have skills of 3
to 4.
I have one problem with this concept. There is no maximum skill level
a character can achieve as there is with atributes. Acording to one
breakdown I have seen posted a skill of 1-2 means you have some
training/experience in that area, 3-4 you are competant and have
studied it or practised it, 5-6 you are an expert and have the
equivilant of a college degree on the subject, 7-8 you are a master
and this field is your life's study or you have an advanced graduate
degree in the field, 9 and up you are godlike in this field.
The problem is it is far to easy under this assumption to reach
these "godlike' levels. Assume a character starts with a skill of 5 in
something and earns an average of 5 karma per run and go's on 4 runs a
year. That's only 2.5 years until he could have a skill of 9 in
something and probably less than 5 years until he does. If the
character was 23 when he began he is at max 28 when he gets his first
godlike skill, under 35 when he get's his second, and could easily
have 4 or 5 such skills when he retires. This is if he doesn't just
keep raising the first skill he raised to 9 and then that skill could
easily reach 18 to 20.
A better way of thinking about the skill levels would be, 1-2 yeah
I read a book on it once or saw it done a few times but have never
really done it myself, 3-4 I took a class in it and have done it in
simulations but never in real life, 5-6 I am fully trained and
competant could make a living in the field, 7-8 professional this is
what I do for a living and the equilivant to a batchelors degree, 9-10
this is my life's study and the equilivant to an advanced graduate
degree,11-12 I am an authority in the field, 13 and up godlike.
This also makes it easier to explain how beginning characters have
skills of 5-6 in combat skills. Instead of those skill levels
representing expert skill levels they represent competancy.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:46:01 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
In-Reply-To: <4405AB66046@******.eee.rgu.ac.uk>
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> > Mike can (and may)
> > still decide the only things the SR2 magic system needs fixed are spell locks
> yipee!
> [i already do things about these]
> > and grounding (his personal pet peeves).
Steve, could you also make sure that Area effect spells are cleared
up? Do they center on one person? What happens if that person
resists it? Why center on a person? How does the whole aura-sync
thing work when you have twenty targets?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:50:40 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
<snip: how high is high for skill levels?>
The problem with you argument is that 20 karma
a year is WAY above what an "Average" person
might "get" through everyday life. I might award
a gifted college student about 5 karma a year, an
average student about 2 or 3.
Double-Domed Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 01:15:53 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
Comments: To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
In-Reply-To: <4287202482D@******.eee.rgu.ac.uk>
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At 16:43 23/07/97 GMT, Mark Steedman wrote:
>Um but if firearms become involved?
Yes. I see what you mean. It's not a problem of had to deal with yet. I'd
probably allocate the initiative loser some dodge pool dice versus range
attacks if he's in that waiting for refresh period.
>I have been wondering, what about banning people from adding combat
>pool to skills until they have had an action in combat?
Same result. The Initiative loser puts all his combat pool into full
defence when the initiative winner attacks and then on his action, when his
pool refreshes, he gets to attack with all of his dice while the initiative
winner has little or no dice left in his combat pool. Or do you mean the
initiative loser can only attack with skill and no pool dice until his
second action?
>Therefore whoever wins the initative gets to add combat pool to the
>attack while thier opponent does not. Ok the target may still use
>full defence but. This avoids the problems affecting dice pool
I'm starting to like this solution.
>refresh timing causes if a third person decides to interfer in the
>melee (especially if its with a gun). Assuming the guy that lost the
>initiative isn't wearing so much armour that the attacks going to
>bounce off, the person that wins should now get a big advantage as
>theres no more 'well i'm going second so pour my pool into melee
>combat at low TN because it will refresh before my action'.
I agree that this means the initiative winner will be the only one having
any chance of doing damage initially and is also protected from the
initiative loser's pool refresh but I don't see this as a large advantage
.... hang on, damn it, it is a big advantage. You know, I like this rule.
I'm introducing it into my games.
>Still not perfect. You could always simply ban combat poolmfrom being
>used against attacks made using 'melee combat' until the person has
>had an action, it's not as if they are difficult to identify as the
No. If one side has combat pool and the other doesn't then the initiative
winner is almost always guaranteed to win the combat. He just has to high a
net advantage in dice. And he only needs it for the first strike to be
successful and then it's all down hill for his opponent.
>'cannot use combat pool on both the skill roll and dodge' rule
>already uses this identifier to track it's applicability.
Which rule is this. Do you mean that in full defence you cannot use any
combat pool dice in the skill test but only in the defence test?
Chris
_______________________________________________________________
Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 12:07:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
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> From: Steven A. Collins <scollins@**.UML.EDU>
> Date: Thursday, July 24, 1997 11:41 AM
> Ok I have recently seen a number of people in state in various
> topics that a skill level of 6 is exceptionaly high and makes one an
> expert on the subject/in the activity. This is somewhat backed up by
> the Contacts listed in the books, where most people have skills of 3
> to 4.
> I have one problem with this concept. There is no maximum skill level
> a character can achieve as there is with atributes. Acording to one
> breakdown I have seen posted a skill of 1-2 means you have some
> training/experience in that area, 3-4 you are competant and have
> studied it or practised it, 5-6 you are an expert and have the
> equivilant of a college degree on the subject, 7-8 you are a master
> and this field is your life's study or you have an advanced graduate
> degree in the field, 9 and up you are godlike in this field.
<Snip>
I understand what you mean, but this isn't a problem very often. See, if
you make it so the opponents to the party have variety and attack in
various ways, set various traps, etc., you will find that the players need
to diversify their skills more. Thus, they will be less tempted to up one
skill to butt-high levels. Also, with the new Companion rules for skill
and attribute increases, it becomes harder to justify upping a skill too
many times...and it takes a long time to do so. This is also discouraging
to some charcters...why take several months to up that skill of 7 to an 8,
when (in a couple weeks) you could up that skill froma 2 to a 3? They
sometimes get impatient and don't want to wait that long to see results...
I tend to view a skill of 4-6 as professional. Just out of college, you
tend to have a 4. People who are experienced in their field for a few
years can have a 6 or so. I see a skill of 7-8 as a master in their field.
Above that, I see the being as truly dedicated and gifted, with little
else developed skill wise in their lifetime....
Something else to keep in mind: In order to improve a skill beyond a
certain point, you may as a GM require that the player ALWAYS have an
instructor. You can only self teach yourself so much. You may be able to
learn some things on your own, but an instructor would keep the time down
to something reasonable. You could multiply the base time by like 3 or 4
at a certain point if the PC doesn't have an instructor. This could be the
stopping point for that skill. After all, there are only so many people
out there with Unarmed Combat skills of 9 or 10! Thus, they will be
expensive and in high demand by life long Martial Artists and shadowrunners
alike. Make them expensive and hard to come by, but necessary to improve
skills beyond a certain point without taking years to improve...
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 12:13:46 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Rumour Mill
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Hoi kids, It's me again...;]
I just got a mail from Mike Mulvhill kinda confirming a few things, and
backing up what Lou said on the ED list about the runours of buyouts and such.
Just figured you might like the word from the SR man himself...:]
>From: FASAMike@***.com
>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:29:41 -0400 (EDT)
>To: chaos@*****.com
>Subject: Re: Rumour Mill
>
[SNIP]
>>Anyways, one of the newest topics on teh list involves one of the Numerous
>>Rumours of a WOTC buyout of FASA. Most of us just laughed at this, but...
>>i was hopng we could get something a little more "official" about
this...;]
>> So if you could tell us what you can about it, I'll post it to the
>list...;]
>
>We have not been bought out by WOTC. We have not been bought out by anyone.
>
>>As I've also heard "Confirmed" rumors that WOTC was buying FASA, White
>>Wolf, Games Workshop, Steve Jackson Games, and West End Games, I seriously
>>doubt the validity of these rumors, but... it never huerts to get some
>>confirmation or denial from the source...:]
>
>WOTC has probably approched all of the game compaines above. They need to
>expand their markets and the best way to do it would be to purchase various
>comapnies. Now that they own TSR and L5R, though this may die down a bit. But
>rumors will never go away.
>
>>Thanks...;]
>>
>>Steve / Bull
>
>See you at Gen Con!
>
>Mike M.
>
>
>
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:17:06 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
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At 08:51 AM 7/24/97 +0100, Simon T. Sailer wrote:
>> C) One really good blow to the head or genitals will normally end a fight
>> immediatly, as will a single sword/knife/cyberblade blow.
>
>Nope. totally wrong. If somebody has to fight for his life, even a
>broken arm won't take him out. A kick in the genitals will end most
>show-streetfights, but never a REAL fight. and a blow in the face
>wont do anything but hurt the hand of the one who striked most of the
>time... believe me, I know from RL experience. (ouch)
Um...it all depends on how you hit. If you hit wrong (which it seems
you're doing) then it'll hurt. If you hit correctly, it's not going to
hurt _and_ it can be extremely devastating. How hard and how you hit is
more important. This is wear training (read: skill level) becomes
important in the fight. A better skilled opponent will hit correctly, and
harm the lesser skilled opponent.
But you are right on one thing: a kick to the groin's not going to stop a
fight. That's why you follow it up.
Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/
The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton
Gencon count down: 13 days
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 12:18:34 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Collins" <scollins@**.UML.EDU>
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
In-Reply-To: <s3d74193.057@********.dragonsys.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Thu, 24 Jul 1997, Mike Elkins wrote:
-><snip: how high is high for skill levels?>
->
->The problem with you argument is that 20 karma
->a year is WAY above what an "Average" person
->might "get" through everyday life. I might award
->a gifted college student about 5 karma a year, an
->average student about 2 or 3.
->
->Double-Domed Mike
->
I agree with you on the kaema/yr for npc's. the people who get 2-3
karma/yr end up wage slaves/policemen/gangers/thugs/etc, the 5
karma/yr endup being Johnsons/Politicians/Mob Bosses/etc, it's the
very few the top 1% that can ever attain skill levels beyond 8 and
be young enough to do anything about it. That's where Shadowrunners
fall they actually earn enough karma in a year yo reach these skill
levels in their lives. At 5 karma a year it would take about 60 years
of your adult life to reach a skill level of 15 leaving you in your
80's. This is about right for normal people, but special people can do
it much faster usually by their 40's.
The problem is if you consider a skill of 6 in unarmed combat to be
equivilant to a black belt in some martial art and 9 to be on the
level of Kwai Chang Cain from the Tv series Kung Fu then it would only
take a normal person about 10 years to reach that level of skill and a
Shadowrunner about 2 to 3 years. I think a skill of 8 should be a
black belt and 15 should be where a true master of the martial art
should be.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 11:35:11 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gossamer <kajohnson@*******.TEC.WI.US>
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
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> Ok I have recently seen a number of people in state in
> various topics that a skill level of 6 is exceptionaly high
> and makes one an expert on the subject/in the activity.
> This is somewhat backed up by the Contacts listed in
> the books, where most people have skills of 3 to 4.
>
> I have one problem with this concept. There is no maximum
> skill level a character can achieve as there is with atributes.
That is correct for the basic game... This is one fo those 'GM's
calls' things. SR developers didn't want to put limits on people,
so they left MAX's out (except for attributes). The way we look
at skill levels (pardon the academic references...) in our group
are like this:
At skill 2 you have the equivalent of a highschool education
at 4 you have the equivalent of a 4 year college degree
at 5 or 6 you have a Master's, 7 is Doctorate level, 8 is
Post Doc Research, 9 and 10 are tops in the field...
We don't have a limit on the skills that our players can
take, but what we do is have them develop a reasonable
explanation as to how they could get that good.
Most of the people in our group tend to Max there skills
out (combat type) at 8 or 9. We have found that this is
a great level at which to play. The best bad guys in our
world have skills of maybe 11 in their primary 'bad-guyness'
and 4, 5, and 6's in anything else.
Now, that might get me qualified as a 'low power gamer',
but our guys still get challenged by street gangs and
the like, and we run quickly from Toxics.
Most of the characters in the 4 year campaign are at
about 250-300 Karma. We feel no need to raise the
max level of skills. We did, however institute a Karma
to cash rule much like the one in the Companion...
> The problem is it is far to easy under this assumption
> to reach these "godlike' levels.
It's a question of self control: do you want to regulate
yourself or not?
>
> A better way of thinking about the skill levels would be,
> 1-2 yeah I read a book on it once or saw it done a few
> times but have never really done it myself, 3-4 I took a
> class in it and have done it in simulations but never in
> real life, 5-6 I am fully trained and competant could make
> a living in the field, 7-8 professional this is what I do for
> a living and the equilivant to a batchelors degree, 9-10
> this is my life's study and the equilivant to an advanced
> graduate degree,11-12 I am an authority in the field, 13
> and up godlike.
>
If it works for you, go for it. My problem with those
'inflated' levels is that the game was designed such that
if you had a 2 or 3, you're fairly competent, and that is
not true with your model.
But again, if it works in your world...
> This also makes it easier to explain how beginning
> characters have skills of 5-6 in combat skills. Instead
> of those skill levels representing expert skill levels they
> represent competancy.
And again, beginning characters in SR can have 'expert'
backgrounds. The Merc is a prime example.
And here's my bias: I hate it that most RPG's out there
start their characters off as inexperienced whelps that
have to learn the world and gradually become better.
In SR, you can start off as an expert in something, and
then expand your charcter from there. It's one of the
main reasons that I really like SR.
But again, if it works in your world...
Love,
Gossamer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 12:39:39 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:17 AM 7/24/97 -0500, Michael Broadwater wrote these timeless words:
>At 08:51 AM 7/24/97 +0100, Simon T. Sailer wrote:
>
>>> C) One really good blow to the head or genitals will normally end a fight
>>> immediatly, as will a single sword/knife/cyberblade blow.
>>
>>Nope. totally wrong. If somebody has to fight for his life, even a
>>broken arm won't take him out. A kick in the genitals will end most
>>show-streetfights, but never a REAL fight. and a blow in the face
>>wont do anything but hurt the hand of the one who striked most of the
>>time... believe me, I know from RL experience. (ouch)
>
Heh... It depends on where, how, and how hard you hit them...:] I had one
dork hit me in the head as hard as he could once... The only thing he did
was make a red mark on my forhead for about 5 minutes, and break his hand
in 4 places. Then again, he hit me dead center in the forhead...
>Um...it all depends on how you hit. If you hit wrong (which it seems
>you're doing) then it'll hurt. If you hit correctly, it's not going to
>hurt _and_ it can be extremely devastating. How hard and how you hit is
>more important. This is wear training (read: skill level) becomes
>important in the fight. A better skilled opponent will hit correctly, and
>harm the lesser skilled opponent.
>
>But you are right on one thing: a kick to the groin's not going to stop a
>fight. That's why you follow it up.
>
>
>Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
>http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
>http://www.blackhand.org/
>
>The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
> when you kill them. -- William Clayton
>
>Gencon count down: 13 days
>
>
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 12:44:40 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Collins" <scollins@**.UML.EDU>
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
In-Reply-To: <199707241609.MAA20362@****.provide.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 24 Jul 1997, Justin Pinnow wrote:
->> From: Steven A. Collins <scollins@**.UML.EDU>
->> Date: Thursday, July 24, 1997 11:41 AM
>>snip all my stuff and traing stuff from the compainion<<
->
->I tend to view a skill of 4-6 as professional. Just out of college, you
->tend to have a 4. People who are experienced in their field for a few
->years can have a 6 or so. I see a skill of 7-8 as a master in their field.
-> Above that, I see the being as truly dedicated and gifted, with little
->else developed skill wise in their lifetime....
->
Ok then why can I start a character with up to 8 skills concentrated
and specialized to a level 7 or 6 of them specialized to an 8. Those
are pretty broad skill bases and sure the base skill levels are now
only 3-4 but I can use my specialities at full value. 40 skill points
is a lot
->Something else to keep in mind: In order to improve a skill beyond a
->certain point, you may as a GM require that the player ALWAYS have an
->instructor. You can only self teach yourself so much. You may be able to
->learn some things on your own, but an instructor would keep the time down
->to something reasonable. You could multiply the base time by like 3 or 4
->at a certain point if the PC doesn't have an instructor. This could be the
->stopping point for that skill. After all, there are only so many people
->out there with Unarmed Combat skills of 9 or 10! Thus, they will be
->expensive and in high demand by life long Martial Artists and shadowrunners
->alike. Make them expensive and hard to come by, but necessary to improve
->skills beyond a certain point without taking years to improve...
->
->Justin :)
->
I'm not really worried about the players upping their skills beyond 9
it's the relatively few number of games in which they can do it that
bothers me to think of that as being along the level of a master at
something. How many players on this list have 300 - 500 karma
characters. I'd like to know what their highest skill levels are
especially for the deckers and sammies who don't have to learn spells
and initiate. My own character who has a whopping 40 karma already has
a 9 skill with a heavy pistol. does this mean that he is ready for the
olympics as a competition shooter. I think not (besides he's been
banned from professional/amature sports for life anyway). His real
area of expertese is in throwing weapons (especially footballs) where
he has an unspecialized 8 for a skill and a natural aptitude, and
Athletics which is a 5 with a running concentration of 7.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 11:45:01 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gossamer <kajohnson@*******.TEC.WI.US>
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
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> I think a skill of 8 should be a black belt and 15 should
> be where a true master of the martial art should be.
The problem that you may run into is that the game
mechanic has a hard time with those ultra-high numbers.
It starts to get wierd with skills around 12+.
And again, if the 'Expert' level is lower, it makes
beginning characters less wimpy, and, IMO, more
fun to play.
Gossamer
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 11:52:54 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gossamer <kajohnson@*******.TEC.WI.US>
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Something else to keep in mind: In order to improve a skill
> beyond a certain point, you may as a GM require that the
> player ALWAYS have an instructor. You can only self teach
> yourself so much.
Who got Stephen Hawking from Astrophysics 9 to 10?
He did. And who got him from 10 to 11? He did.
At the point of being that high... only you can teach yourself,
IMO...
It would be better, I think, to just have everyone (the GM)
decide what number were associated with what proficiency
levels (RL) and then have the players conform their characters
to those guidelines within the bounds of their character's
concept.
You can also make anyone who wants a 'top-end' skill
to pay something like a SOTA maintanence cost...
Gossamer, who like lower end games
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:06:13 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gossamer <kajohnson@*******.TEC.WI.US>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
MIME-Version: 1.0
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At 08:51 AM 7/24/97 +0100, Simon T. Sailer wrote:
>> C) One really good blow to the head or genitals will normally end a fight
>> immediatly, as will a single sword/knife/cyberblade blow.
>
>Nope. totally wrong. If somebody has to fight for his life, even a
>broken arm won't take him out.
That depends how it's broken... I have ended a couple of fights, (one
was going to be pretty brutal) by breaking an arm at the elbow. If you
want to piss someone off, break there are at the elbow. It hurts. If
you want the fight to cease, hang on to the arm and twist it like wringing
out a wash cloth. And shake it like you were a dog playing tug-o-war.
Hang on with both hands and avoid his patheitc attempt to get you off.
The fight will end...
>A kick in the genitals will end most show-streetfights, but never a
>REAL fight.
This I can confirm, but I can't explain it.
>and a blow in the face wont do anything but hurt the hand of the
>one who striked most of the time... believe me, I know from RL
>experience. (ouch!)
I agree with Mike B on this one. The skill of the attacker will tell.
Anytime I would need to strike to the face area, my targets are
eyes, throat, and nose. I have only hit one person in the face, and
that was in high school. It is definitely not high on my list of
targets, but when the opportunity presents itself...
Gossamer, who detests violence
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 12:42:50 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Stupid, no good, lousy...
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Ok, I think a mail just went out from me on the UAC thread that has a tiny
bit of idiocy set in the middle of a big post, with nothing snipped, and my
part unfinished... Ignore it please.
My mailer seems to think that for some reason my Trash box is also my out
box, and just tried to send my trash out... Interesting glitch, that...
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 00:28:33 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John Dukes <dukes@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Long Range Game Designs [was: Re: We Don't Need No
Stinkin'Munchies!!!]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> After the end of the first session, he asked me when we were leaving if
>>I'd played before, and I said a little. I suggested he shouldn't be so heavy
>>handed in pushing his players, and things would go easier. I was still
>>enjoying myself, and thought the storyline was pretty decent.
>> The following two days actually were a bit more fun. He allowed the rest
>>of the group to tweek their characters to fit how they saw them [NOT power
>>wise, but laterally, like a confidence man should have more than 3 Charisma
>>and Social Ettiquette, instead of 6 Firearms, etc.]. When it was over,
>>everyone had a good time. I ended up being voted, MUCH to my surprise [No,
>>really!] best player for the tourney.
>[snip]
>
>Of course they awarded you, it sounds like you singlehandedly did the event
>yourself. You also argued to get their characters stats improved and
>everyone likes that. You really thought that you wouldn't be voted best
>player after doing the latter?
>
You where not at the game, how do you know why they did or didnt vote him
best player. Sounds to me like you are being argumentative.
Seems to me that you two are arguing for arguments sake and have lost sight
of your points. What are your points? I see nothing but bickering in this
thread. I dont know about everyone else, but I'm tired of seeing a bunch of
discussions where neither side remembers what idea theyre supporting.
Oh well, so much for my 2 cents.
John
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 21:26:40 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is
<jhary@*******.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de>
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Organization: Authors of OL.TXT
Subject: Re: ShadowRN FAQ Part II
In-Reply-To: <199707241323.HAA04868@******>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On 24 Jul 97 at 7:23, David Buehrer wrote:
> I'm sorry, I just couldn't resist :)
>
> Adam J wrote:
> |
> | (adapted from a Frequently Reposted Message by Doctor Doom)
>
> >Translated by me.
> >Magaga
[etc.pp.blahblah]
Hey, Adam, put this into the FAQ. Might make it easier to understand,
even for some people not that used to Netiquette...
Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst | The light at the |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de|end of the tunnel is|
| \___ __/ | | the headlight of an|
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | approaching train. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | -- Skip (?) |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 16:57:06 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "James R. Crandall" <JRCrandall@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Hallucinogens in SR
In a message dated 97-07-24 09:42:33 EDT, Avenger writes:
<< There is a fairly extensive list of drugs, effects, power levels and all
the associated stuff that goes with it available on the net, I've got a
copy of it here somewhere but I'm damned if I know where it came from. >>
If its the same one I pulled off the net, it is as Paolo Marcucci's Page
http://www.interware.it/shadowrun/chemical/compidx.html
Some really interesting items there, especially the awakened forms of
various plants.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:14:33 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hallucinogens in SR
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 24 Jul 1997 05:05:20 +0100"
<VI4rejAASt1zEwPL@*******.demon.co.uk>
MIME-version: 1.0
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You wrote:
> Drugs like this haven't been covered too well in SR literature, probably
> for "parental" reasons than anything else, especially as it is rife in
> the CP game.
Well, I always thought i unusually... responsible of the CP rules that they
portray drugs in such a negative light as they do. In that system, drugs will
mess your character up sooner or later, and there are statements to that
effect... Prolly comes from the general view of drugs given in Gibson's
novels, particularly Mona Lisa Overdrive and Count Zero.
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 16:13:11 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Joshua T Brown <spamquat@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Your .Sig [OT]
On Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:19:42 -0500 Gossamer <kajohnson@*******.TEC.WI.US>
writes:
>> >"ahh, kamisama! watashi no atama ni ono ga arimasu!"
>> >
>> Nihon'go wa chotto hanashimasu ga wakarimasen' deshita...
"As for Japanese, I speak it a little (but) I didn't understand......"
>
>Actually, this phrase is more correctly given as:
>
>Nihongo ga mama dekimasu kedo chotto wakarimasen deshita
>
>(I speak Japanee ok, but I totally didn't understand [what you said])
>
True enough, that *is* the more colloquial form (though literally, yours
translates as "I can Japanese ok, but I didn't understand [what you
said] a little") I usually speak a little more formal, as I'm just
learning, and I use "ga" particle instead of kedo or memo just to save
hiragana space.<smirk> Plus I use the Japanese theory of creating as much
ambiguity in a given sentence as possible, so the responsibility of
understanding falls to the listener.... a good habit to get into when
preparing for business in Japan....
>> Biiru o happondake nomimashita! - Something NOT to say
>> to a police officer who stops you. Trust me. <smirk>
>
>Instead of telling the poor cop you've been drinking, try this:
For those who are a bit confused, what I said actually was "I only drank
8 bottles of beer!"
If this language thread starts to bug others, let's move it to more
SR-subject and begin throwing out useful Yakuza phrases, and get rid of
the OT marker.....
==============================================================
The Kumquat -- Josh Brown -- Kumquat@*****.com -- Spamquat@****.com --
Shadowrun Page Still Under Development -- Coming Soon!
"Support Whirled Peas" -- <smirk> -- "Whatever, Man" --
"Woo Hoo!" --
....Don't hate me Because I'm... ahh, screw it, hate me. <smirk>
==============================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:19:45 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 24 Jul 1997 08:57:39 +0100"
<279A2CB2345@********.uibk.ac.at>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
You wrote:
> Of course I COULD be wrong... but... IMHO the combat pol is
> refreshed at the beginning of a new turn...
cf. pp. 84 BBB:
dice pools refresh on a character's actions, the refresh at the start of a
combat is an exception to this (i.e. everybody starts a combat with full pools,
before their first action).
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:26:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Physad Enhanced Centering
In a message dated 97-07-24 01:01:48 EDT, lobo1@****.COM (John E Pederson)
writes:
>
> >Sciences, etc.), Knowledge (Big List), Language (Bigger List?), B/R
> >(can be
> >interesting, character can make some big money on the side), Magical
> >(which
> >allows for the Centering to actually get used in Enchanting and a few
> >other
> >things)...
>
>
> Except that a physad can't enchant, and can't use most magical skills
> except for mundane effects (which is to say, in the same way(s) a mundane
> could use them).
>
>
True, but a Physical Mage can, and these rules apply to them as well. Also,
a Physical Adept -CAN- enchant, even a mundane can make fetishes. As such,
the skills could go in that direction as well.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:23:21 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: First session as GM
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 24 Jul 1997 03:29:08 -0400"
<199707240730.DAA03442@****.provide.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
You wrote:
> Here's the question (now that I have bored you to death with background
> information): How do I allow the PCs to live out their lives, with all
> that entails, without boring the other players to death in the meantime? I
> want to keep them all occupied, but I can only have one serious
> in-character conversation at a time. Any suggestions?
"To make a long story short (too late!)" ;)
Let another PC play out some of the NPC stuff, if it's just background. :)
Try to get all the PCs involved in it. :)
> 2. I am trying to come up with campaign/adventure/run ideas that do not
> revolve around rare magical artifacts, vampires, raiding megacorps, etc. I
> want to start the players off with a few simple (generic?) runs that aren't
> too overwhelming. Then, after a few sessions, I will lay the good stuff on
> them. ;) I am really short on ideas, but if anyone cares to share their
> ideas or past run experiences with me, I would greatly appreciate it (and
> so would my players, but they wouldn't really be aware of it). :)
Bodyguarding, stakeouts, tailing people, 'bill collecting', etc. :) Think of
the type of stuff Mob thugs do...
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 14:30:04 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Buckalew <mike_buckalew@******.COM>
Subject: [GC] A Drive in the Country
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
The Kumquat Wrote:
>C-Y'all at Gen Con! (I'll at least stop by GRANITE's game, even though I
>couldn't get in.... not pre-regging does that.... D'oh!)
I did preregister and I did get into A Drive in the Country. I got my
prereg tickets yesterday and the interesting thing is that it lists Jill
Lucas as the GM for this event.
Is this just because it's a FASA sponsored event, or is she actually one
of the three (I think it's three) GMs running the game in the first round?
Anyway, I'm very excited. I got in to every game I signed up for, with
only one (The Babylon Project) being shifted to a different time. It's
going to be a busy 4 days!
Buck (Mike Buckalew)
Test Manager, FileMaker Pro
Email: buck@******.com
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GCS d- s-: a C++ !U !P !L !E W+ N o? K? $w--- !O $M+(++)
!V PS+(+++) PE++ Y+ PGP- t+ 5+ !X R++ tv+>(+++) b++ DI+++
D---- G e++ h--- r+++ y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:32:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Multiple GMs
In a message dated 97-07-24 10:49:40 EDT, Clen@******.CO.ZA writes:
>
> Does anyone have any experience at multiple GMimg?
>
> Bruce, Erica and myself did it for a while.
>
> Hmm, like Bruce asks - is there anyone with any ideas out there?
>
> Clen
>
I guess that I fall into that category. Mike (airwisp@***.com) and I trade
off, and had a third GM a while back (but he's decided not to do so now).
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:35:02 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:13:58 -0400"
<970724101351_-489911768@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Steve wrote:
<snip>
> So, how about this: instead of the present system, allow magical characters
> who lose a Magic attribute point to take a Geas *to get the Magic point
> back.* As long as the character follows the geas, their Magic rating remains
> what it was. If they break the geas, the lose the use of that point of Magic
> until the geas is obeyed again. Each Magic point lost would require a
> seperate geas (unlike the present system where a geas is required for every 2
> points lost).
Frankly, I love this idea. Rather than 'not being able to become an Initiate',
the char gains something useful (in a direct way, that is) back from the geas.
> One advantage to this system is it would allow Magic loss to work more the
> same for magicians and physical adepts. A physad could likewise take a geas
> on a lost Magic point, applying the geas to 1 point-worth of their powers.
> This works like a normal physad geas (from Awakenings) except, instead of a
> cost-break, the adept gets to keep the Magic point and the powers as long as
> the geas is unbroken.
> An initiate who takes a geas ordeal essentially accepts a limit on the bonus
> Magic point provided by the initiation. If the initiate follows the geas,
> they get the Magic point, if they break it, they lose it until they live up
> to the geas again.
> This system would make burnout magicians more viable as magical characters
> (perhaps too viable). Natrually, a character whose Magic drops to 0 or less
> still becomes a mundane. A character can also choose to reject his geasa, in
> which case he permanently loses the Magic points associated with them, and
> cannot ever take other geasa, the character is on the path to burning out.
You might want to leave in the possibility of taking further geasa even if
earlier ones were rejected, imo. I really never liked the 'one-way' decision
of rejecting geasa.
> Naturally, one of the disadvantages is changing the existing system. I would
> like to know what everything thinks about this and what the possible
> ramifications might be. Remember, none of this is written in stone (or even
> in mud, at this point). We're just tossing around ideas. Mike can (and may)
> still decide the only things the SR2 magic system needs fixed are spell locks
> and grounding (his personal pet peeves).
You will see far more cybered mages, most likely, since they can lose magic to
cyber and 'get it back' with geasa. Some test characters might illustrate
whether this would disrupt balance, maybe some list members could work up a few
(trying hard as they can to min/max them in this direction?) and see what we
get? And think of what this could do for Physical Mages (if your campaign
allows them...). Mages tend to avoid things like Wired Reflexes because of the
high Magic losses, but with this rule, you might see a lot of sammie/mage
amalgams (not that that would be bad, they might still remain pretty balanced).
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:46:58 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:42:37 -0400"
<Pine.OSF.3.96.970724102239.25771A-100000@*******.cs.uml.edu>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
You wrote:
> True sexually xmitted diseases should be a real concern for characters
> living low lifestyles or less but I try to keep most aspects of
> sexuality out of my game. The reason, as the GM i just can't
> realistically roleplay a woman who the character is trying to "score"
> with.
Umm... you do realize that STDs have nothing to do with social class, right?
I'm fairly sure the Low lifestyle could support buying condoms. I sympathize
with the 'not able to roleplay willing-or-not-so-willing females', though.
*shrug*
losthalo, who has roleplayed female characters before, as PCs, but still
doesn't feel like playing out his players' GFs...
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 07:52:32 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
In-Reply-To: <199707240946.LAA11316@*****.xs4all.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> You HAVE to use Willpower instead of your skill, unless you have access to
> things a weapon focus (presumably that must be bonded to you, although
> SRII fails to mention that) or something that attacks the spirit's
> Vulnerability weakness (for example, using a flamethrower on a water
> elemental).
... or a baseball bat covered with insecticide... that's the only way we
lived through bug city.
Lady Jestyr
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:05:16 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
> Date: Thursday, July 24, 1997 5:52 PM
> > You HAVE to use Willpower instead of your skill, unless you have access
to
> > things a weapon focus (presumably that must be bonded to you, although
> > SRII fails to mention that) or something that attacks the spirit's
> > Vulnerability weakness (for example, using a flamethrower on a water
> > elemental).
> ... or a baseball bat covered with insecticide... that's the only way we
> lived through bug city.
Well, not all bugs are effected by insecticides....
> Lady Jestyr
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:09:07 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
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> From: Wendy Wanders, Subject 117 <KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
> Date: Thursday, July 24, 1997 6:35 PM
> Steve wrote:
> <snip>
> > So, how about this: instead of the present system, allow magical
characters
> > who lose a Magic attribute point to take a Geas *to get the Magic point
> > back.* As long as the character follows the geas, their Magic rating
remains
> > what it was. If they break the geas, the lose the use of that point of
Magic
> > until the geas is obeyed again. Each Magic point lost would require a
> > seperate geas (unlike the present system where a geas is required for
every 2
> > points lost).
> Frankly, I love this idea. Rather than 'not being able to become an
Initiate',
> the char gains something useful (in a direct way, that is) back from the
geas.
Again, I need to point out that Geasa are NOT beneficial. They are
crutches. They don't make it any easier to use magic, they help you to
catch up to the norm. You shouldn't get anything for having a Geas.
Having the Geas allows you to continue to use magic. That's its own
benefit.
<Snip>
> > This system would make burnout magicians more viable as magical
characters
> > (perhaps too viable). Natrually, a character whose Magic drops to 0 or
less
> > still becomes a mundane. A character can also choose to reject his
geasa, in
> > which case he permanently loses the Magic points associated with them,
and
> > cannot ever take other geasa, the character is on the path to burning
out.
> You might want to leave in the possibility of taking further geasa even
if
> earlier ones were rejected, imo. I really never liked the 'one-way'
decision
> of rejecting geasa.
Why? I mean, that's the path of the burned out mage. Without the one way
decision, there wouldn't be a path. A burned out mage could turn right
around and no longer be burned out...even with all his new cyberwear.
Yuck.
> > Naturally, one of the disadvantages is changing the existing system. I
would
> > like to know what everything thinks about this and what the possible
> > ramifications might be. Remember, none of this is written in stone (or
even
> > in mud, at this point). We're just tossing around ideas. Mike can (and
may)
> > still decide the only things the SR2 magic system needs fixed are spell
locks
> > and grounding (his personal pet peeves).
> You will see far more cybered mages, most likely, since they can lose
magic to
> cyber and 'get it back' with geasa. Some test characters might
illustrate
> whether this would disrupt balance, maybe some list members could work up
a few
> (trying hard as they can to min/max them in this direction?) and see what
we
> get? And think of what this could do for Physical Mages (if your
campaign
> allows them...). Mages tend to avoid things like Wired Reflexes because
of the
> high Magic losses, but with this rule, you might see a lot of sammie/mage
> amalgams (not that that would be bad, they might still remain pretty
balanced).
I doubt it. There's a reason technology and magic conflict with each
other. Game balance. If you allow folks to keep high magic ratings while
being stuffed with cyber and bioware, you are asking for trouble.
> losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 00:06:38 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Multiple GMs
In-Reply-To: <199707241847.QAA12464@******.sybase.co.za>
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At 24-Jul-97 wrote Clen Cook:
>Does anyone have any experience at multiple GMimg?
Yup
>Hmm, like Bruce asks - is there anyone with any ideas out there?
We usualy runnunig multiGM games over a network so the
GM`s can communicate in silence and the players don`t get a clue
about what they are talking.
An other advantage is that the GM`s don`t have to leave their place.
Its quiet expensive but its realy make for a cool tool.
Oh and sometimes even the players are connected too, very good
for private mesages.
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 00:18:24 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.96.970724122606.10957C-100000@*******.cs.uml.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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At 24-Jul-97 wrote Steven A. Collins:
>->Something else to keep in mind: In order to improve a skill beyond a
>->certain point, you may as a GM require that the player ALWAYS have an
>->instructor. You can only self teach yourself so much.
I disagree here, after a certain level theres noone left to tech you you
must do it then all for yourself.
And BTW, if you need an instructor for lerning how did we
managed our way from the stoneage one?
>I'd like to know what their highest skill levels are
Main character: small unit tactics 23
acting/sim/porn/ 14
ettiquette(con) 13
(street) 12
(yakuza) 11
secondary: unarmed combat(muay thai) 12
athletics 10
stealth 18
enough?
I know I`m a powergamer, so no need to call me a munchkin, because
all my charaters have a very decent background.
And some of them are very old in RL time.
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:23:10 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:09:07 -0400"
<199707242210.SAA11747@****.provide.net>
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You wrote:
> Again, I need to point out that Geasa are NOT beneficial. They are
> crutches. They don't make it any easier to use magic, they help you to
> catch up to the norm. You shouldn't get anything for having a Geas.
> Having the Geas allows you to continue to use magic. That's its own
> benefit.
And I agree with you here. Where do I seem to be disagreeing? I said
something about geasa 'giving back' the use of an ability, yes? They
allow someone who has lost a Magic point or three to still cast as a magician
with an attribute of 6 (in this proposed rules change), the 'crutch' you speak
of. Rather than keeping access to Initiation open, here Geasa would have a r
immediate effect on all magicians (face it, Initiation is only useful to some).
<snip>
> Why? I mean, that's the path of the burned out mage. Without the one way
> decision, there wouldn't be a path. A burned out mage could turn right
> around and no longer be burned out...even with all his new cyberwear.
> Yuck.
What I was saying was: allow the choice with each new loss of Magic to either
lose it or keep it via a geas. Thus, becoming a burn-out is not a single
decision, rather a gradual series of decisions to not take or not keep certain
Geasa which eventually results in the character losing all his Magic and
becoming a mundane... The Way of the Burnout is a path, not a decision, under
this rule, and I like it better that way, YMMV.
> I doubt it. There's a reason technology and magic conflict with each
> other. Game balance. If you allow folks to keep high magic ratings while
> being stuffed with cyber and bioware, you are asking for trouble.
Perhaps. I believe he was asking for arguments for/against this, I suggested
making some chars (given the variety of the talent on this list, we should see
some different approaches) and see what happens. What of a mage who takes WR3
anyway, and loses the 3 Magic, and uses low-force spells to augment his combat
abilities? Is there something wrong with that? What of Physical Magicians,
who devote someMagic to spellcasting and Summoning, and some to Physad
abilities, are they too unbalanced in your opinion? Such a char soulc have a
power focus to allow the casting of high-force spells still, and be pretty
nasty. I'd like to see how this idea plays out before condemning it.
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:35:49 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:13:58 -0400"
<970724101351_-489911768@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
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You wrote:
One change I might propose, in light of possible game-balance problems, could
be to prevent the use of any of the 'lost' Magic points unless all of the Geasa
are being met. For example:
Vermin, a Rat Shaman, has lost three Magic thus far, to a 11mm slug through the
lung, some cyber he picked up while still young and stupid, and to a botched
attempt to heal him by someone who didn't realize he was magical... He now
carries three geasa to keep his mojo up to snuff: Time(night), Gesture, and
Fasting. So, if he's eaten in the last 24 hours, can't gesture (or doesn't
care to at the time) or if it's daylight out, he can't use those 3 'lost'
points. If he meets all three geasa, then he has his full 6 Magic at his
ruthless disposal.
This system makes the geasa more of a burden, since they all must be met
simultaneously to keep from losing the use of those magic points, the 'crutch'
gets more and more rickety the more it tries to support. Also, if you were to
choose to not keep all your lost Magic via geasa, it becomes easier on you to
fulfill them all (the seductiveness of the Way of the Burnout). Example:
Vermin decides that keeping up the Time geas is too much trouble, often enough
he's caught in the drek in daylight (he's on the run from Aztechnology, and
having a basically rotten string of luck), so he drops the Time geas
(permanently, mind you); his max Magic, with the geasa is now a 5, when both
Gesture and Fasting have been met, otherwise it's a 3.
*sigh* Sorry that took so much to say, but hopefully it's clear. :)
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:46:15 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Multiple GMs
In a message dated 97-07-24 11:04:28 EDT, fro@***.AB.CA writes:
>
> I've never tried more than one GM a session, but I would advise you to not
> try rotating GM's. All my friends do that for other games, and nothing
> ever gets done, because they aren't competent enough to tie plot threads
> together. Of course, you may be more competent :)
>
>
This is what we keep doing here, but it requires a lot of collaboration on
Mike and mine own parts. It also draws the line on "player knowledge" a lot.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:48:18 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Multiple GMs
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:46:15 -0400"
<970724184459_1280563500@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
You wrote:
> In a message dated 97-07-24 11:04:28 EDT, fro@***.AB.CA writes:
> >
> > I've never tried more than one GM a session, but I would advise you to not
> > try rotating GM's. All my friends do that for other games, and nothing
> > ever gets done, because they aren't competent enough to tie plot threads
> > together. Of course, you may be more competent :)
> >
> >
> This is what we keep doing here, but it requires a lot of collaboration on
> Mike and mine own parts. It also draws the line on "player knowledge" a
lot.
I was part of a campaign in high school that ran for three years or so, with
four different players assuming the GM role, in varying amounts, and for the
most part it went very well. Even long-term plots, like Aztechnology's
continuing hunt for several of the characters, etc., worked out quote well,
though keeping a unifying 'theme' in such a campaign would be decidedly
difficult. Varying GM styles are nice, though, and it gives everyone a chance
to play (a big plus, imo). We share-GM'ed AD&D, SR, and other games, though
CoC was my province alone (worked better since the other players had read no
Lovecraft at all :).
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 19:00:40 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa -Reply
losthalo wrote:
>One change I might propose, in light of
>possible game-balance problems, could be to
>prevent the use of any of the 'lost' Magic points
>unless all of the Geasa are being met. For
> example: <snip example>
Ah, a suggestion I LIKE! Being seriously burnt
is now a serious pain in the butt, and there is an
incentive to turn down Gaesa. There is still no
incentive to revoke that very last Gaese, but thats
a minor flaw IMHO.
Double-Domed Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 19:11:07 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Hallucinogens in SR (In Character Mode Stuff)
In a message dated 97-07-24 16:55:31 EDT, kristlingweird@*********.COM
(Kristling the Weird) writes:
> > *grabs SR rulebook, looks up wendigo* I think I need to get some kind of
> > steel weapon and a couple of sunlight bulbs soon...
> >
> Gee, gurth.... You want me to use my "Blow Up Weindigos" spell?
>
A Whipcrack, like a sensual toy, snaps clearly, "get back you nasty people"
another whipcrack "get back, (holding the snarling beast at bay) "he's only a
little boy...."
-Keith (wonder's who'll get this joke)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 19:13:17 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa -Reply
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 24 Jul 1997 19:00:40 -0500"
<s3d7a655.071@********.dragonsys.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
You wrote:
> losthalo wrote:
> >One change I might propose, in light of
> >possible game-balance problems, could be to
> >prevent the use of any of the 'lost' Magic points
> >unless all of the Geasa are being met. For
> > example: <snip example>
> Ah, a suggestion I LIKE! Being seriously burnt
> is now a serious pain in the butt, and there is an
> incentive to turn down Gaesa. There is still no
> incentive to revoke that very last Gaese, but thats
> a minor flaw IMHO.
Sure there is, the reason that the burn-out eventually becomes a mundane:
the Magic no longer pulls its weight! One more point or two of cyber usually
outweighs a Magic of 1 or 2, even if you've got that one geas keeping it at a 3
when the geas is met.
Glad to be of service, as I like this far better than the old geasa rules, and
would like to see it make its way in. :)
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 19:17:49 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
In a message dated 97-07-24 17:50:30 EDT, KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU
writes:
> > True sexually xmitted diseases should be a real concern for characters
> > living low lifestyles or less but I try to keep most aspects of
> > sexuality out of my game. The reason, as the GM i just can't
> > realistically roleplay a woman who the character is trying to "score"
> > with.
>
> Umm... you do realize that STDs have nothing to do with social class,
right?
> I'm fairly sure the Low lifestyle could support buying condoms. I
> sympathize
> with the 'not able to roleplay willing-or-not-so-willing females', though.
> *shrug*
>
I think, but am not certain, that the idea was that people with lower
lifestyles -tend- to have a more sexually active life, even if the quality or
control is poorly defined (sorry, those are studies found in Psychology,
Journal of American Medicine, and GQ (though I forget the year on the
latter).).
As to "playing out the female", I guess that means that I have an edge to
this one. A phrase I once heard and so far has proven correct...a guy knows
what a guy wants.
-Keith (sorry, this has been building for a while)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 16:23:25 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: [GC] Granite's game at Gen Con
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Just got my Gen Con badge and tickets today! Yay...had to share. :o)
Anyways, one of the tickets is for the S/R Drive in the Country
tourney. I had been under the impression this was Granite's game,
however the ticket lists Jill Lucas as GM.
Anyone else get in on the game and have the same on their ticket, or
know if anything is up?
I know Granite would be the best to ask on this, but I think he's gone
for a few days ain't he?
Just curious.
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 19:25:04 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
In a message dated 97-07-24 18:22:13 EDT, barbie@**********.COM writes:
> disagree here, after a certain level theres noone left to tech you you
> must do it then all for yourself.
> And BTW, if you need an instructor for lerning how did we
> managed our way from the stoneage one?
There is a song performed by "Enigma" with the phrase, "we can only be
reminded of what we have forgotten" or some such (I don't have the CD in the
Audiostation at the moment).
> >I'd like to know what their highest skill levels are
>
> Main character: small unit tactics 23
> acting/sim/porn/ 14
Oh god I can see it now (actually, I've had a few players with character and
these skills...hey Barbie, where's your Seduction Skill? A cat shaman I once
knew would have considered you an amateur.
> ettiquette(con) 13
> (street) 12
> (yakuza) 11
>
> secondary: unarmed combat(muay thai) 12
> athletics 10
> stealth 18
>
> enough?
Actually, depends on your point of view...Victor considered Binder's
Enchanting Skill to be high for -his game-, so I am certain that some/many
will consider the above frighteningly high. Hell, for Binder-Uncensored, the
above are pretty fair to outright excellent.
>
> I know I`m a powergamer, so no need to call me a munchkin, because
> all my charaters have a very decent background.
> And some of them are very old in RL time.
> -
Same here
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 01:10:06 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Hallucinogens in SR
In-Reply-To: <970724165706_1547677616@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 24-Jul-97 wrote James R. Crandall:
>Some really interesting items there, especially the awakened forms of
>various plants.
Yeah I know my elfen buddie starts collecting catnip(awakened)
after he discovered it in the netbook.
Keeps me real soft.
--
Barbie the-druged-panther-shapshifter
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 01:13:14 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
In-Reply-To: <01ILMGGT4D829I9638@******.acs.muohio.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 24-Jul-97 wrote Wendy Wanders, Subject 117:
[snip snap snup]
> Some test characters might illustrate
>whether this would disrupt balance, maybe some list members could work up a
>few (trying hard as they can to min/max them in this direction?) and see what
we
>get?
Consider me at work :-)
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 16:33:40 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Super Tuesday spoilers...
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
P
A
C
E
I
S
Y
O
U
R
F
R
I
E
N
D
:o)
---David Buehrer wrote:
>
> Also, what with corporations getting creative about disposing of
> toxic waste I thing that's a perfect opportunity to start off an
> adventure by poisoning a PC (or friend of) and having the PCs hunt
> down who is responsible.
There's something quite similar to this as one of the Super Tuesday
adventures. Nasty stuff... EGM
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:10:13 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---Gurth wrote:
>
> David Buehrer said on 7:14/23 Jul 97...
>
> > I missed that line also <grump>. And I agree with Gurth. Each
> > disease should have a description of it's symptoms throughout the
> > course of the disease, it's method of communication, at which
> > point(s) during the course of the infection its communicable, etc.
> > And, whether it's treatable, and how.
> >
> > I think I'm going to do some RL research on this. Look forward to
> > something in the future :)
>
> How many times do PCs or important NPCs get infected by a disease in
SR
> anyway? Because that's the only time this sort of info will come in
handy.
Well, there is all them nice little critters with the Pestilence
power, and I can think off hand of a couple of pre-printed adventures
that deal with bio-hazard/disease.
In fact, just a few weeks ago I had two characters come down with the
vitas-type disease after succumbing to the Pesitlence of a Kraken.
<EGMG>
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:52:50 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---Steve Kenson wrote:
>
> An initiate who takes a geas ordeal essentially accepts a limit on
the bonus
> Magic point provided by the initiation. If the initiate follows the
geas,
> they get the Magic point, if they break it, they lose it until they
live up
> to the geas again.
So does a mage who is able to shake off one of his current geas at the
time of initiation get the lost magic point(s) back? I mean in
addition to the normal magic point he is already gaining through
initiation.
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:11:26 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Two quick questions...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---Rob Davies wrote:
>
> Can anyone explain the phrase, 'Once a player has
> allocated Magic Rating Points to "buy" a power, that
> power cannot be changed, but it can be upgraded by
> spending more Magic Points at a later time.' (Page 126,
> SRII.)
>
> I understand the killing hands S->D example but where
> do the 'more Magic points' come from?
>
> How can a physical adept improve & gain new Phys. Ad.
> abilities? Increasing their magic score is not allowed,
> Do they just use karma as magic points?
Physads gain additional points to the Magic attribute through
initiation the same as the other magically talented. These new magic
points can then be allocated towards purchasing/upgrading abilities.
> On a different topic, which SR book contain info on
> grading clinics (detla, etc)?
Your most complete description of alpha/beta/delta clinics will be in
Cybertechnology. Though alpha/beta first appeared in Street Sam
Catalog.
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 21:28:06 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 12:18:34 -0400 "Steven A. Collins"
<scollins@**.UML.EDU> writes:
<< The problem is if you consider a skill of 6 in unarmed combat to be
equivilant to a black belt in some martial art and 9 to be on the
level of Kwai Chang Cain from the Tv series Kung Fu then it would only
take a normal person about 10 years to reach that level of skill and a
Shadowrunner about 2 to 3 years. I think a skill of 8 should be a
black belt and 15 should be where a true master of the martial art
should be.>>
The problem with your presumption is that it will take them about 10
years if that's *all* they do in that ten years. If they don't 'spend'
any karma improving other skills, getting new ones, etc. And since a lot
of the choice on where to put your karma would happen on a sub-concious
level, by the time such a person gets done, they'd have learned Unarmed
Combat (Kung Fu) (specialization whatever) of 5/8/10, Etiquette (Martial
Artists) 4, etc, etc. You'd probably have 3-4 new skills in the process,
as well as improving others. And you'll have improved your physical
attributes, too. The truth is that this is a _game_. The fact that things
don't always seem to stack up, doesn't necessarily matter (unless having
a perfect representation of reality is your goal, in which case, you're
playing the wrong game;). Initiates are rather rare, too (I/we estimated
that there about 3800 in Seattle a while back) but they get tossed around
like nobody's business:) Let's face it: average people get more than 5
Karma a year, they just don't *use* all of it on useful stuff.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 16:12:47 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Skye Comstock <bilbo@****.NWLINK.COM>
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
In-Reply-To: <yam7145.1227.136868448@****.amigaworld.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Main character: small unit tactics 23
> acting/sim/porn/ 14
> ettiquette(con) 13
> (street) 12
> (yakuza) 11
Well... Geez. (S)he is the greatest theorist in history, knows how
to make the best porn out there, and has enough etiquette for
everyone and their brother...
>secondary: unarmed combat(muay thai) 12
> athletics 10
> stealth 18
This guy walks around in a muy thai combat stance all the time,
hops a lot, but makes no noise and never sweats... Snazzy. ;)
>enough?
At least there wasn't anything high than 30.
>I know I`m a powergamer, so no need to call me a munchkin, because
>all my charaters have a very decent background.
>And some of them are very old in RL time.
Your characters are more akin to gods... :)
-Skye
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:42:13 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:35:02 -0500 losthalo
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU> writes:
<big ol' snipperoonie>
<<You will see far more cybered mages, most likely, since they can lose
magic to cyber and 'get it back' with geasa. Some test characters might
illustrate whether this would disrupt balance, maybe some list members
could work up a few (trying hard as they can to min/max them in this
direction?) and see what we get? And think of what this could do for
Physical Mages (if your campaign allows them...). Mages tend to avoid
things like Wired Reflexes because of the high Magic losses, but with
this rule, you might see a lot of sammie/mage amalgams (not that that
would be bad, they might still remain pretty balanced).>>
Okay, here goes (I used rules _as_written_, not necessarily as intended,
and did not limit myself to the main book:)
Name:
Race: Human
Adept: Hermetic Sorcerer
ATTRIBUTES
----------
Body: 3/4
Quickness: 3
Strength: 3
Charisma: 1
Intelligence: 4/5
Willpower: 6
Body Index: .8
Essence: 1 (1.8, if you use the bioware subtracts from Magic house rule)
Magic 1 (3)
With geasa, Magic Rating is a full 6 (8) :)
SKILLS
------
Armed combat/Edged weapons [3/5(7)]
Firearms [5]
Sorcery/Spellcasting [3/5]
Unarmed combat/Martial arts style [2/4]
Etiquette(Street) [1]
Magical theory/Design/Hermetic [1/3/5]
CYBERWARE
---------
Dermal Plating 1
Smartlink II
Eye Cyber replac.
Eye Optical Mag 2
Eye Rangefinder
Eye Thermographic
Wired Reflexes 2
BIOWARE
---------
Cerebral Booster 1
Trauma Damper
SPELLS
------
Increase +4 Strength (1)
Increase +3 Quickness (1)
Personal Combat Sense (1)
Hellblast (5) (reusable fetish)
Fire Bolt (3) (ditto)
Mana Bolt (3) (same here)
Improved Invisibility (3) (expendable fetish)
Flame Aura (4) (reusable fetish)
Heal (3) (reusable fetish, exclusive)
GEAR
----
2 Savalette Guardians (w/ 30 rounds Explosive ammo <kaboom!>)
Ares Alpha Combat Gun (w/ 50 rounds APDS ammo, 8 Defensive HE
minigrenades, 8 Neurostun minigrenades)
Light Military Armor
Power Focus 2
Weapon Focus 2,Reach 1
Spell Lock (Personal Combat Sense, 4 successes)
Spell Lock (Increased Strength +4)
Fetish Focus, Rating 1
4 Expendable Detection Fetishes
5 Expendable Illusion Fetishes
Reusable Combat Fetish
Reusable Manipulation Fetish
Reusable Healing Fetish
3 Contacts
Edges and Flaws (remember, I said 'as written' :)
---------------
Astral Sight
Combat Monster
Vindictive
I don't know that the Chromium Mage there is all that munch (powerful,
but nearly crippled by the low physical attributes), but that's what I
came up with. I would have sprung for a Panther Cannon:) but I was on a
budget, and really wanted the foci:):)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:45:26 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Karmic Winds (was :Re: Skill Levels) (Warning- LONG)
In a message dated 97-07-24 20:53:32 EDT, MikeE@*********.COM (Mike Elkins)
writes:
Just a precursor...what I wrote after the following statement is long, and
some will construe as "flame", but it is in fact something from the heart, my
Heart. I guess you could call it "My Thesis" on Karma and it's power. And
it entails a bit of the understanding of how that "Power" is aquired. It is
something that was told to me by a guy in northeastern Arizona.
Victor, if you are reading, I invite you to read deeply. Duncan, you as
well, you can learn a great deal about "Binder-in-the-Dark" this way.
>
> The problem with you argument is that 20 karma
> a year is WAY above what an "Average" person
> might "get" through everyday life. I might award
> a gifted college student about 5 karma a year, an
> average student about 2 or 3.
>
> Double-Domed Mike
>
And then the problem would be just how motivated you are, they are, we are.
Mike, I understand your need or desire to see a controlled state of "power"
within the scope of Shadowrun, or problem within the state of any role
playing game.
I applaud you sincerely,
However;
I have more ambition than that, more patience, more drive. Those things
alone are worth far more than 2 or 3 points a year, 5 if I go to college (NOW
that is arrogance, college the moment of life's highest, greatest point).
College is merely one step, and though it is a big one, it is not
necessarily the largest in life. Wait until your parents sleep at -your-
house. Wait until your wife/lover/husband says "I Do" and it means Forever.
Wait until your son/daughter says "I Love You." Wait until you bid fairwell
Forever in this light. Wait until I cross into the Light of Creation itself.
Success is measurable in ways that college can't even begin to explain. It
can only point the way.
Were I to be an actual Shadowrun Individual, within the Scope of Shadowrun by
your own definition, I would truly have discovered what the term oppression
means. I understand that SR (and many role playing games these days) have
created a "dark scenario", one where the "average joe" is never going
to
amount to crap.
Have you ever seen pointilism in action Mike? Where an entire picture is
formed by the smallest of dots. Taken as a single entity, their singular
image is uncertain and ill-determined. But, when moved into perspective,
taken as par of a greater image, the one dot on the wall becomes joined by an
untold, uncountable, number of dots. You and I and every other -THING- on
this list or this world are parts of those dots.
Now enters understanding, a comprehension of self. That would give this
"dot" some backlighting, perhaps brighten it up to an apprehensible point.
It would indicate that the "dot" has aquired a sense of self, a sense of
self empowement. The ability to motivate its' own path and maneuver along a
slightly better destiny.
Now, lets suppose the light were to be reflected upon the dots that surround
the first dot. Each of those dots in return gain a brilliance to their
shadow. Perhaps this "Karmic Fire" can be ignited within those dots as well,
perhaps not. But it will happen to some, and to those some, the fires will
grow proportionately. Hence, this one region of the overall picture is
brightened. It is enhanced in its' magnitude and its' impact.
Now the fire is burning, but to make it a furnace, something incredibly
intense, you have to go to distances. Yes, I do very much realize that such
intensity is often unseen in the average dot, hence the reason the overall
picture often seems so shadowy, so bleak. But that one dot, the one that
started it all, is no longer alone likely. Sure, He or She may believe they
are, but often their fire's send sparks in ripples, across a vast sea of
immeasurable distance. But those ripples will travel none-the-less.
Suddenly, the fire becomes self-burning, it has taken on a life completely
its own, but something that can only be witnessed from "a far" or "a
distance" (Bette Midler's song sort of has the idea). And it takes someone
to step back that distance, while retaining a firm grasp on the paper itself,
in order to learn from it and to gain a better idea on how to grow.
-=-=-=-=-
Now what does all of this have to do with Shadowrun the Game? Any Game? It
has to do with the rewards the Player is given for development. It has to do
with how enlightened or understandable the rest of the group, GM and fellow
Players, really are. If a player, even one player, can grasp their own
character and really "run with it", then the light of that part of your, the
GM's, picture will be brightened that much more. Hopefully that enlightening
will reflect upon the rest of the group, even yourself as the referee as
well. It will go beyond developing a character of integrity, it will go the
lengths of developing a game that -IS- integrity.
Yes, I have called an overdramaticist, and yes I will admit to it. But I
have also been privileged with the knowledge that I have ignited a few of
those dots around me. The character's I make, no matter the power level, are
carrying part of that fire within them. Occasionally, it takes a good puff
of inspirational wind to keep it going, but it will go on for as long as I
can.
Yes, I have been called a Powergamer and much worse (Munchkin is just the
beginning actually folks). My response after all these years has become
something of the following:
"My Fire comes from within, be it my Soul or my Passion, I care not. Only
that it is there. If it frightens you I am sorry, for it need not be feared.
Perhaps it is because you have failed to see that it is merely a reflection
of the Fire that burns within us all. To extinguish it is to declare defeat
on life itself.
Perhaps it is because you are afraid of being burned, but like the Phoenix,
it is merely the ultimate expression in the Cycle Eternal. It will only burn
and destroy what does not grow, and from those ashes it will give birth to
new hope and new meaning.
But whatever the reason, know that it is how and whom I am. I can stand
completely upon the strength of my convictions alone, though a hand from a
friend is always grateful. My fire's have been found and fanned for many
years now. My hand is open, -My Dot- is Shining. Join Me?"
-=-=-=-=-
Now I admit that I probably sound more than lunatic, beyond anything that TC
or Victor have barraged at each other or anyone else for that matter. It
doesn't matter how little or much karma, experience, money, etcetera, is
handed out at the end of a given campaign, only that it is given.
Please understand, none of the preceding is an attack, it is a statement. It
is a summary of opinion. I would dare say it is a Writ of Philosophy, but
I'd be certain that los(th)alo would get involved on a lack thereof. (-wink-)
If anyone wants to believe that karma is a limited thing, then perhaps you
haven't seen the Karmic Wind in action. I have I am happy to say. Next time
it moves alongside me, I will whisper into it your name. Then maybe you'll
hear mine.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:51:51 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
In a message dated 97-07-24 21:22:27 EDT, daddyjim@**********.COM writes:
>
> So does a mage who is able to shake off one of his current geas at the
> time of initiation get the lost magic point(s) back? I mean in
> addition to the normal magic point he is already gaining through
> initiation.
>
According to the rules, that is how one could interpret it, yes. Perhaps it
would be better to say that via Initiatory Quest, the individual in question
can learn to function more fluidly, more efficiently, and thus "rebalance"
his/her talents into a truer state of being.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:51:37 -0400
Reply-To: Philos@****.Net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sir Philos Nex <philos@****.NET>
Organization: Me, Myself and I
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Greets everyone... my first post in this mailing list! :)
ke Elkins wrote:
>
> <snip: how high is high for skill levels?>
>
> The problem with you argument is that 20 karma
> a year is WAY above what an "Average" person
> might "get" through everyday life. I might award
> a gifted college student about 5 karma a year, an
> average student about 2 or 3.
>
> Double-Domed Mike
Basically what you're saying is that players are not normal in any
respect.. but that should be nothing new to anybody! :) In the SR2 book
(or is it another book..hmmm) they even mention the "mythical average"
stat being 3..we all know that that's never going to happen :) Hell,
most of the stats in the SR2 book for the archtypes make most of them
put Sylvester Stallone <sp> look puny :)
I disagree with your Karma points there for students but that's really
not important (seriously, the average university student covers so many
topics that 2 or 3 for an average one is kinda insulting..)
I've never known, in any game system, for player characters to be
considered "normal" or even slightly above normal. They break all logic
and while to some that may be wrong, or unrealistic - to others it's
just fun and people don't want to worry about such things.
--
Andrew Dominas
AKA Sir Philos Nex
3rd Year Honours Business Administration U of Windsor
Jedi Knight
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 03:25:05 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Hallucinogens in SR
In-Reply-To: <199707240946.LAA11313@*****.xs4all.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <199707240946.LAA11313@*****.xs4all.nl>, Gurth
<gurth@******.NL> rambled on endlessly about Hallucinogens in SR
>Bull said on 19:27/23 Jul 97...
>
>> Of course, considering my impending Wendigo-ism (??:)), I LIKE Bloody
>> Meat... gee, DA, Dvixen, Spike, Gurth... You're all starting to look
>> tasty...
>
I may be looking tasty, but believe me, one munch on this dried out
ancient old body and you're going to be spitting me back out again. :)
Unless of course you like chomping on tasteless mummified flesh.
--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 23:10:51 -0400
Reply-To: Philos@****.Net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sir Philos Nex <philos@****.NET>
Organization: Me, Myself and I
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Gossamer wrote:
>
> > Something else to keep in mind: In order to improve a skill
> > beyond a certain point, you may as a GM require that the
> > player ALWAYS have an instructor. You can only self teach
> > yourself so much.
>
> Who got Stephen Hawking from Astrophysics 9 to 10?
> He did. And who got him from 10 to 11? He did.
>
> At the point of being that high... only you can teach yourself,
> IMO...
My friend's in the Canadian Military, and he would definitely agree
with you on that point. He says that there's a point to which training
can take you, the teachers can tell you only so many ways to hold the
gun, where and how to point it, etc. After you have been taught to a
point (say between skill levels 4-8 -this is skilled but not godly in
any manner), this point depends on the skill too, you need to have
experience to get any better. Now up until that point you can learn
faster with a teacher, but people also have to remember the differences
associated with various skills. A doctor or someone in a science
profession would probably need training up to skill levels 8 or 9,
assuming he wasn't a researcher and doing this on his own, which he
would obviously be unable to have things taught to him. :)
--
Andrew Dominas
AKA Sir Philos Nex
3rd Year Honours Business Administration U of Windsor
Jedi Knight
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 23:17:38 -0400
Reply-To: Philos@****.Net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sir Philos Nex <philos@****.NET>
Organization: Me, Myself and I
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Gossamer wrote:
> Most of the people in our group tend to Max there skills
> out (combat type) at 8 or 9. We have found that this is
> a great level at which to play. The best bad guys in our
> world have skills of maybe 11 in their primary 'bad-guyness'
> and 4, 5, and 6's in anything else.
>
> Now, that might get me qualified as a 'low power gamer',
> but our guys still get challenged by street gangs and
> the like, and we run quickly from Toxics.
Myself and my friends like to hold around the 8-9 range.. perhaps an
odd skill at 10 but for the most part a well rounded character is one
more likely to live longer. I'd rather have 8 skills at 6 or 7 than one
skill at 14.. it's better IMHO.
> Most of the characters in the 4 year campaign are at
> about 250-300 Karma. We feel no need to raise the
> max level of skills. We did, however institute a Karma
> to cash rule much like the one in the Companion...
>
> > The problem is it is far to easy under this assumption
> > to reach these "godlike' levels.
>
> It's a question of self control: do you want to regulate
> yourself or not?
I think that if you need to regulate people you should actually look at
your gaming style and find out what's wrong with it.
--
Andrew Dominas
AKA Sir Philos Nex
3rd Year Honours Business Administration U of Windsor
Jedi Knight
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 23:18:15 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hallucinogens in SR
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:25 AM 7/25/97 +0100, Avenger wrote these timeless words:
>In article <199707240946.LAA11313@*****.xs4all.nl>, Gurth
><gurth@******.NL> rambled on endlessly about Hallucinogens in SR
>>Bull said on 19:27/23 Jul 97...
>>
>>> Of course, considering my impending Wendigo-ism (??:)), I LIKE Bloody
>>> Meat... gee, DA, Dvixen, Spike, Gurth... You're all starting to look
>>> tasty...
>>
>
>I may be looking tasty, but believe me, one munch on this dried out
>ancient old body and you're going to be spitting me back out again. :)
>
>Unless of course you like chomping on tasteless mummified flesh.
>
Bahh... It's like eating Beef Jerky... It's just something good to chew
on, and if you season it right... it's even tasty...;];]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 21:28:24 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jak Koke <jkoke@******.UOREGON.EDU>
Subject: Gencon room needed
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Well, I'm doing my best to make it to Gencon this year, and if so, I'll need
crash space. My previous plans fell through so I had decided not to go, but
then I changed my mind. So anyhow, what I'm asking is: does anyone who is
going to Gencon this year have extra crash space?
Please reply by private email. I get the list in digest form and it only
comes once a day.
Thanks in advance.
--Jak
Jak Koke La Jolla, CA
----------------------------------------------------------
I have a new (temporary) web page at:
http://ursula.uoregon.edu/~jkoke
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 00:40:16 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: First session as GM
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> I developed 27 contacts (not bad for 3 PCs, eh?), all with personalities,
> edges, and flaws. I also started an introductory run that Mr. Tinner was
> kind enough to lend me the idea for (Romi-0 and Juli-8). So far, it
seems
> to be going well.
Man ... I just love when these kids call me "Mr. Tinner" ;-P
It makes me sound as old as Pete!
> Here's the question (now that I have bored you to death with background
> information): How do I allow the PCs to live out their lives, with all
> that entails, without boring the other players to death in the meantime?
I
> want to keep them all occupied, but I can only have one serious
> in-character conversation at a time. Any suggestions?
IMO Let this player send you his IC discussions over email, but let him
know that you will NOT be responding to them until the next game session.
That way, you are already prepared for his discussion topics.
It allows you more time to prepare really devious ideas and surprises for
him, and also lets you move through his questions and ideas more rapidly,
without eating up too much of your valuable time.
> 2. I am trying to come up with campaign/adventure/run ideas that do not
> revolve around rare magical artifacts, vampires, raiding megacorps, etc.
I
> want to start the players off with a few simple (generic?) runs that
aren't
> too overwhelming. Then, after a few sessions, I will lay the good stuff
on
> them. ;) I am really short on ideas, but if anyone cares to share their
> ideas or past run experiences with me, I would greatly appreciate it (and
> so would my players, but they wouldn't really be aware of it). :)
You've already heard most of my ideas on this topic, but another one worth
mentioning is making the campaign very personal.
Maybe give the team some rivals, or enemies that they are fighting against.
Another evenly matched runner or criminal group would make a good low level
challenge.
Or perhaps the team is hunted by a group of bounty hunters sent after them
when the botch their first run (which usually happens on first runs!)
Hey, it worked for Han Solo and Jabba didn't it? ;-)
> Ant can give you great power. Ant is beautiful. Ant is clean and
> organized. Ant will reshape the pitiful world we currently live in. Ant
> will clean it up and make it better. Only then will the Earth be a great
> place once again.... :) :) :)
Spoken like a true Evil GM!
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 21:39:30 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Hallucinogens in SR (In Character Mode Stuff)
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---"J. Keith Henry" wrote:
>
> A Whipcrack, like a sensual toy, snaps clearly, "get back you nasty
people"
> another whipcrack "get back, (holding the snarling beast at bay)
"he's only a
> little boy...."
> -Keith (wonder's who'll get this joke)
Lost Boys (when Laddy monkeys out, and Star comes to his defense)???
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 21:43:25 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Michael Paff <mikepaff@***.COM>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
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>Okay, here goes (I used rules _as_written_, not necessarily as intended,
>and did not limit myself to the main book:)
>
> With geasa, Magic Rating is a full 6 (8) :)
>
Which 5 geasa did you plan for this character?
>BIOWARE
>---------
>Cerebral Booster 1
>Trauma Damper
>
An official ruling needs to be made as to how the Trauma Damper affects
spellcasters (does it offset drain, is there any risk to Magic like
stimpatches). Hopefully it will be addressed in SR3.
>I don't know that the Chromium Mage there is all that munch (powerful,
>but nearly crippled by the low physical attributes), but that's what I
>came up with. I would have sprung for a Panther Cannon:) but I was on a
>budget, and really wanted the foci:):)
>
On the subject of foci, with the variable Magic attribute that mages
would have under the proposed change, which value is used to determine
focus addiction?
>
>-Canthros
Mike Paff
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 00:44:38 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Collins" <scollins@**.UML.EDU>
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
In-Reply-To: <01ILMGL7L73Y9I9638@******.acs.muohio.edu>
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On Thu, 24 Jul 1997, Wendy Wanders, Subject 117 wrote:
->You wrote:
->> True sexually xmitted diseases should be a real concern for characters
->> living low lifestyles or less but I try to keep most aspects of
->> sexuality out of my game. The reason, as the GM i just can't
->> realistically roleplay a woman who the character is trying to "score"
->> with.
->
->Umm... you do realize that STDs have nothing to do with social class, right?
->I'm fairly sure the Low lifestyle could support buying condoms. I sympathize
->with the 'not able to roleplay willing-or-not-so-willing females', though.
->*shrug*
True social class has little to do with it, but education,
cleanlieness, and access to medical care do. A wealthy person will
move in circles of people who better educated, can take a bath every
day, and have access to the best medicine money can buy. A person
living a low lifestyle can maybe take a shower, will probably not be
able to read, and any medical care they get comes from the free clinic
down the street. These are just generalities but the exceptions
(especially in Shadowrun) will be rare.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 02:05:55 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Area Spells
Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU> writes:
>Steve, could you also make sure that Area effect spells are cleared
>up? Do they center on one person? What happens if that person
>resists it? Why center on a person? How does the whole aura-sync
>thing work when you have twenty targets?
I shall certainly do what I can. One of the prime goals of SR3 is clarifying
things, after all. To give you an idea of my current thoughts (all IMHO):
1) Area-effect spells DO NOT have to be centered on a person. The caster
centers the spell wherever is desired. All valid targets within the radius of
the spell's effect are affected. The key word here is VALID targets. Which
brings us to:
2) A valid target is one which the caster: a) can see or assense, unaided by
technology and, b) shares a "state of existence" with (either physical or
astral). So a physical caster can only target physical things he can see with
his normal vision, an astral caster can only target astral things he can
assense and a dual or astrally perceiving caster can target either.
I think the whole "synchronize auras" stuff is bogus, or at least badly
explained. I call the process of determining whether or not a target is valid
(as given above) forming a magical link between the caster can the target. If
the caster can fulfill the conditions, the link is formed and the spell can
be cast.
For area-effect spells, the magical link is formed with each potential target
in the radius of the spell. If a particular target is not valid, the spell
does not affect it, but has its normal effect on the remaining targets.
Example: Talon tosses a manaball at a security mage, two corp guards and an
elemental the mage has hanging around in astral space. Talon can see the mage
and one guard. The other guard is up against the wall on the other side of
the open doorway. The elemental is hovering near the sec-mage in astral form.
Talon targets using his normal vision. He can see the mage and one guard
unaided and targets his manaball in their midst. The elemental and the other
guard are within the radius of the spell, but they are not affected because
Talon cannot see them and therefor cannot form a magical link with them. The
mage and the corp guard make Spell Resistance Tests while the elemental and
the other guard are unaffected.
If Talon used Astral Perception to target his spell, he could have affected
the mage, one guard AND the elemental since he would have been able to
assense the spirit and would have shared a state with it (both astral), but
that would make Talon vulnerable to astral combat. The corp guard behind the
wall (but still within the radius) still wouldn't be affected because Talon
still can't see him.
This is how all area-effect combat spells (and other area-type spells like
Chaos) work. The only exception is Damaging Manipulations, which create a
real, physical medium the caster directs at the targets. The blast radius of
a damaging manipulation affects all physical targets in the area of effect,
whether the caster can see them or not.
I hope that helps. The final version for my SR3 proposal should be a bit more
coherent. That was rather off-the-cuff. Comments are, of course, welcome.
Steve K.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 02:05:58 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
losthalo wrote:
>One change I might propose, in light of possible game-balance problems,
could
>be to prevent the use of any of the 'lost' Magic points unless all of the
Geasa
>are being met. For example: <example snipped>
Interesting idea. It definitely forces some tough decisions on the burnouts.
I'll give it some thought. What does everyone else think?
Steve K.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 02:06:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>:
>So does a mage who is able to shake off one of his current geas at the
>time of initiation get the lost magic point(s) back? I mean in
>addition to the normal magic point he is already gaining through
>initiation.
Most likely, under the proposed sustem, characters would not be able shed
geasa upon initiating. The only way to lose the geas would be to also
sacrifice the point of Magic, putting yourself on the slippery slope to
burning out because of your inability to maintain the "magical lifestyle" you
need to maintain your powers. Of course, a character could always try to use
Initiation to try to stay ahead of the loss, getting rid of "tainted" (ie.,
geas-bound) Magic points and replacing them with "clean" (unrestricted) Magic
gained from Initiation. This is like running the Red Queen's race "running
and running just to stay in place."
Steve K.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 01:40:52 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage
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Here's a Chromium Mage (Burnout) for ya...
Attributes (50 pts)
-------------------
Body: 3(6) Reaction: 6(10)
Quickness: 6 Initiative: 6+1D6(10+3D6)
Strength: 2 1 point impact armor
Charisma: 1 Combat Pool: 9
Intelligence: 6 Sorcery Pool: 6
Willpower: 6
Skills (10 pts)
---------------
Sorcery: 6
Magic Theory: 3
Hermetic: 5
Magician: Hermetic Mage (20 pts)
Resources: 400,000 nuyen (20 pts)
Cyberware
---------
Wired Reflexes 2 (3.00 essence)
Dermal Sheath 2 (1.40 essence)
Bioware
-------
Trauma Damper (0.40 body index)
Spells
------
Mana Missile 6 (drain 3M physical)
Stun Bolt 6 (drain 2S physical)
Treat 6 [drain 3(wound level) physical, target 7]
Redirect 6 [drain (1/2 spell force)(spell damage code - 1 DC) physical]
Power Dart 6 (drain 4L physical)
Equipment (135,000)
---------
Secure Jacket (dikoted) 6/4 armor rating
Helmet (dikoted) 2/2 armor rating
Forearm Guards (dikoted) 1/3 armor rating (only in melee)
Large Riot Shield (dikoted) 3/1 armor rating (not in melee)
>>>>[That's an 11/8 armor factor, 9/10 in melee, 8/7 without
toys]<<<<
DocWagon Platinum
As much high lifestyle as can be afforded...
Not only does he cause an enormous amount of damage, he gets to do it often,
can dodge anything shot at him with ease, and (should by some miracle, he be
hit) handle damage if it does get through. Not too shabby, eh? Fully
legal, too. Not a munchkinous bone in his body. Didn't need any edges or
flaws to do this. Didn't need any optional tweaks. He just plain rocks.
As this character gains in karma, he'll increase few things....
1) Sorcery - for increased sorcery pool
2) Spell Forces - for irresistable spells
3) Spells - As many high-force/low-drain spells as possible (my fave is a
force 12+ manadart)
4) Stats - gotta raise Body, so he's nigh-impossible to hurt, and Strength,
so he can eventually wear dikoted heavy military armor...
Physical drain is actually a good thing for this character (he can Treat
it). The spells' drains are generally so low anyway that he should resist
them with ease. Then if your GM allows for some serious rule-bending... **I
WOULD NOT ALLOW THIS!!**... the Trauma Damper helps him resist drain further
through it's ability to lower TNs to resist pain by 2. After all, physical
drain is nothing if not pain (btw, **I WOULD NOT ALLOW THIS!!**). So drains
go from 3 TN to 2 TN (can't go lower) and that Treat suddenly becomes much
(33.4%) easier to cast if needed. If that's allowed, then pump up the Mana
Missile to a Mana Bolt and the Power Dart to a Power Bolt.
Did I mention that I would not allow Trauma Dampers to do that? Well, I
wouldn't...
Granted, this character represents perhaps the pinnacle of powergaming for
his sort. It was intended to be such though, and I have no intentions
whatsoever of playing such a beast (though I would happily play a cybered
mage, this one doesn't thrill me). For those of you lacking in moral fiber,
give the guy a shot and I guarantee that (if you follow the guidelines for
the character) you won't be disappointed in the results. It's also fairly
easy to convert this creature to the priority-based system should that be
your wish.
Enjoy at your own risk...
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 02:49:11 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
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Steve Kenson once dared to write,
>The latest idea involves geasa.
<snips the rest>
I like the concept. I think we have a winner. Each point should be
made by decision if it is restricted by a geasa. I'm unsure of the all or
nothing approach on multiple geasa, I'm leaning for the point per geas
option.
The only question is how it affects burnout characters at CharGen?
It wouldn't have affected Waif much but how about other Characters? Does
the burnout have to take a geas for each point lost or for just as many
as he wants to? I also think the essence 0 magic 1 question should be
answered on whether or not it could exist. With the newest incarnation
of geasa this situation has a greater chance at becoming more frequent.
The only other question (OK I lied) is what qualifies for breaking
the geasa enough that the point will never be recovered?
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 04:21:16 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Deosyne <deosyne@*********.NET>
Organization: The War Machine
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
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Lady Jestyr wrote:
>
> > You HAVE to use Willpower instead of your skill, unless you have access to
> > things a weapon focus (presumably that must be bonded to you, although
> > SRII fails to mention that) or something that attacks the spirit's
> > Vulnerability weakness (for example, using a flamethrower on a water
> > elemental).
>
> ... or a baseball bat covered with insecticide... that's the only way we
> lived through bug city.
>
> Lady Jestyr
>
My players in a Bug City campaign coated themselves in DEET (a no
bullshit bug repellant) during a hive attack. Had to give em the target
# mods for that; I failed to consider the idea myself :/ Gotta watch
them players, I swear! :)
Deosyne
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 03:23:11 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Area Spells
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> From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
> Date: Friday, July 25, 1997 2:05 AM
> I shall certainly do what I can. One of the prime goals of SR3 is
clarifying
> things, after all. To give you an idea of my current thoughts (all IMHO):
> 1) Area-effect spells DO NOT have to be centered on a person. The caster
> centers the spell wherever is desired. All valid targets within the
radius of
> the spell's effect are affected. The key word here is VALID targets.
Which
> brings us to:
So far so good. :)
> 2) A valid target is one which the caster: a) can see or assense, unaided
by
> technology and, b) shares a "state of existence" with (either physical or
> astral). So a physical caster can only target physical things he can see
with
> his normal vision, an astral caster can only target astral things he can
> assense and a dual or astrally perceiving caster can target either.
Still going strong. :)
> I think the whole "synchronize auras" stuff is bogus, or at least badly
> explained. I call the process of determining whether or not a target is
valid
> (as given above) forming a magical link between the caster can the
target. If
> the caster can fulfill the conditions, the link is formed and the spell
can
> be cast.
Yup, that's pretty much what synchronizing auras is. However, the whole
synchronizing auras thing is pretty much an unnecessary use of terminology
to explain something that doesn't really need to be explained in that much
detail (funny, that's not the case with most magical stuff in SR...) ;)
Your simplified version is much easier to understand.
> For area-effect spells, the magical link is formed with each potential
target
> in the radius of the spell. If a particular target is not valid, the
spell
> does not affect it, but has its normal effect on the remaining targets.
Cool.
> Example: Talon tosses a manaball at a security mage, two corp guards and
an
> elemental the mage has hanging around in astral space. Talon can see the
mage
> and one guard. The other guard is up against the wall on the other side
of
> the open doorway. The elemental is hovering near the sec-mage in astral
form.
> Talon targets using his normal vision. He can see the mage and one guard
> unaided and targets his manaball in their midst. The elemental and the
other
> guard are within the radius of the spell, but they are not affected
because
> Talon cannot see them and therefor cannot form a magical link with them.
The
> mage and the corp guard make Spell Resistance Tests while the elemental
and
> the other guard are unaffected.
Question: why isn't the Elemental included? I understand your reasoning,
but astral perception is used (albeit briefly) during spellcasting in order
to synch...er target all the beings in the area. Thus, during that time,
all the targets of the spell are established...wouldn't this include the
Elemental then?
> If Talon used Astral Perception to target his spell, he could have
affected
> the mage, one guard AND the elemental since he would have been able to
> assense the spirit and would have shared a state with it (both astral),
but
> that would make Talon vulnerable to astral combat. The corp guard behind
the
> wall (but still within the radius) still wouldn't be affected because
Talon
> still can't see him.
See above. I am not sure I agree with you on this point.
> This is how all area-effect combat spells (and other area-type spells
like
> Chaos) work. The only exception is Damaging Manipulations, which create a
> real, physical medium the caster directs at the targets. The blast radius
of
> a damaging manipulation affects all physical targets in the area of
effect,
> whether the caster can see them or not.
Makes sense.
> I hope that helps. The final version for my SR3 proposal should be a bit
more
> coherent. That was rather off-the-cuff. Comments are, of course, welcome.
Well, there you have them. ;)
> Steve K
Justin :)
.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 04:58:42 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Deosyne <deosyne@*********.NET>
Organization: The War Machine
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
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Steve Kenson wrote:
>
> losthalo wrote:
> >One change I might propose, in light of possible game-balance problems,
> could
> >be to prevent the use of any of the 'lost' Magic points unless all of the
> Geasa
> >are being met. For example: <example snipped>
>
> Interesting idea. It definitely forces some tough decisions on the burnouts.
> I'll give it some thought. What does everyone else think?
>
> Steve K.
Love it! Mage decides that those wiz new cybereyes with all the options
would be worth flopping his hands around while casting, cool. One point
lost if he can't gesture, five's still pretty good. Course, some wires'd
be nice... Now he's got to satisfy three geasa or cast at Magic of
three. Or dump a geasa and be happy with a five and two geasa (and of
course his wiz cyberwear). Makes the whole geasa issue much more
complex. More metal means less juice (it's a bitch to try and satisfy
three geasa at once!) Go with it. :)
Deosyne
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:54:27 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
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> Love it! Mage decides that those wiz new cybereyes with all the options
> would be worth flopping his hands around while casting, cool. One point
> lost if he can't gesture, five's still pretty good. Course, some wires'd
> be nice... Now he's got to satisfy three geasa or cast at Magic of
> three. Or dump a geasa and be happy with a five and two geasa (and of
> course his wiz cyberwear). Makes the whole geasa issue much more
> complex. More metal means less juice (it's a bitch to try and satisfy
> three geasa at once!) Go with it. :)
>
> Deosyne
>
OK what if he says he'll take a geasa of having to have something with
him(can't think of the name) and he says the cybereyes are that thing?
how about seeing, would this count as normal sight? would he be able to
cast LOS spells at anything he sees? how about if he hat a transmiter
that racieved a picture of somewhere else, could he cast a spell on
that? It is a good system but still needs some work. :-)
Caun :}
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 13:06:58 +0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Technomancer <arvanit@**D.UCH.GR>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
In-Reply-To: <33D86AC2.713784C4@*********.net>
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OK, I love the new way of the geasa (never liked the other one).
So to sum up (and offer my view):
a) Following a geas allows one to "keep" the lost point.
MV=> Great, I think this is how it should be.
b) If you have multiple geasa follow them all or lose all the points.
MV=> I think it is kind of harsh, but not inherently wrong.
c) What happens upon initiation ?
MV=> Either gain a new Magic Point and keep the geas or lose the geas
without droping in Magic rating. (Actualy abandon the geas, losing a point
that is instantly regained free of geasa.)
And what is that I hear about using geasa to counter cyberware?
I thought geasa where used to counter magic loss due to wounds etc., not
due to essence loss. Essence loss should remove Magic points permanently,
without any options for keeping them (You are making yourself weaker and
unable to hold his full potential of astral energy).
**Hoping that was clear...*******************************************
* Technomancer * Modesty is one of my countless virtues *
* arvanit@***.uch.gr *
* http://www.csd.uch.gr/~arvanit/ *
*********************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:26:11 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
In-Reply-To: <v03007800affd9f7149f6@[206.129.23.28]>
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At 24-Jul-97 wrote Skye Comstock:
>Well... Geez. (S)he is the greatest theorist in history, knows how
>to make the best porn out there, and has enough etiquette for
>everyone and their brother...
She is a troughly frighteing person if one have seen her in action.
But if you have not she`s so cute and looks like she could do you no harm.
Definetly a point if you will be underestimated.
And with ettiquette this high you need not most of the time
to fight you are mostly to convince the other thats not good for them
if they start a fight.
>This guy walks around in a muy thai combat stance all the time,
>hops a lot, but makes no noise and never sweats... Snazzy. ;)
Oh yeah, the term dedicated martial artsts means anything for you?
She does nothing realy more than that
>At least there wasn't anything high than 30.
Don`t count on it. These are the real skilllevels the CW/BW bonuses
are NOT included
>Your characters are more akin to gods... :)
Gods not likely only real advanged characters.
And some of them had payed deeply for their current state.
Or would you call 22! cortexbombs a blessing?
And thats only a reminder of do you know we build you from scrap again now you
are ours.
All had developed over the gametime none of them where anything extraordiery
in the beginnig
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:36:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Two quick questions...
In-Reply-To: <199707241042.LAA04506@*****.cs.cf.ac.uk>
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Rob Davies said on 11:42/24 Jul 97...
> Can anyone explain the phrase, 'Once a player has
> allocated Magic Rating Points to "buy" a power, that
> power cannot be changed, but it can be upgraded by
> spending more Magic Points at a later time.' (Page 126,
> SRII.)
>
> I understand the killing hands S->D example but where
> do the 'more Magic points' come from?
From your next bit, I gather you understand what it means, but don't know
how to actually get those extra MP to buy the upgrade with. There are two
ways, the first of which is to not spend all your MPs during character
generation; for example, if you buy Killing Hands S and four points Pain
Resistance, you have 2 points left. Now start play, and during play you
can upgrade Killing Hands to D.
However, this isn't all that handy, so we get to:
> How can a physical adept improve & gain new Phys. Ad.
> abilities? Increasing their magic score is not allowed,
> Do they just use karma as magic points?
Increasing the Magic Rating _is_ allowed, but not in the same way as you
increase Attributes like Body, Charisma, etc. You'll need a copy of The
Grimoire, which explains initiation, which proceeds in grades. Each grade
costs Karma (and a lot of it at that), but adds to your Magic rating in
the following way: Magic = Essence (round down) + initiation grade.
So a physad with Essence 6 and initiation grade 4 has a Magic Rating of
10, and can therefore have 10 points worth of powers.
> On a different topic, which SR book contain info on
> grading clinics (detla, etc)?
The Street Samurai Catalog has alpha and beta clinics, while
Cybertechnology repeats that info but adds delta-grade.
> Sorry if this is rehashing old ground - I'm new(ish)
> here. Thanks
Welcome to the list :)
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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:36:34 +0100
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970725075154.12943A-100000@*******.dialix.com.au>
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Lady Jestyr said on 7:52/25 Jul 97...
> > You HAVE to use Willpower instead of your skill, unless you have access to
> > things a weapon focus (presumably that must be bonded to you, although
> > SRII fails to mention that) or something that attacks the spirit's
> > Vulnerability weakness (for example, using a flamethrower on a water
> > elemental).
>
> ... or a baseball bat covered with insecticide... that's the only way we
> lived through bug city.
My players never did think of the simple fact that insects might be
vulnerable to insecticides (though now I've said it on the list, I'm
pretty sure at least one of them will think of it next time they encounter
a bucnh of bugs... :)
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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:36:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <199707241655.LAA08941@****.madison.tec.wi.us>
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Gossamer said on 12:06/25 Jul 97...
> >A kick in the genitals will end most show-streetfights, but never a
> >REAL fight.
>
> This I can confirm, but I can't explain it.
Maybe the buzz-word "adrenalin" applies? If you're fighting for your life,
I imagine you put a lot more into it than if you're fighting for an
abstract concept like honor or the money in your wallet.
> I agree with Mike B on this one. The skill of the attacker will tell.
> Anytime I would need to strike to the face area, my targets are
> eyes, throat, and nose. I have only hit one person in the face, and
> that was in high school. It is definitely not high on my list of
> targets, but when the opportunity presents itself...
How many movie fights do you see where people go for the throat or eyes?
Usually they punch opponents in the jaw, and since nearly everybody gets
their ideas on how to fight from movies and TV, that's what they'll go
for...
--
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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:36:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
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Steve Kenson said on 2:06/25 Jul 97...
> Most likely, under the proposed sustem, characters would not be able shed
> geasa upon initiating. The only way to lose the geas would be to also
> sacrifice the point of Magic, putting yourself on the slippery slope to
> burning out because of your inability to maintain the "magical lifestyle"
you
> need to maintain your powers. Of course, a character could always try to use
> Initiation to try to stay ahead of the loss, getting rid of "tainted" (ie.,
> geas-bound) Magic points and replacing them with "clean" (unrestricted)
Magic
> gained from Initiation. This is like running the Red Queen's race "running
> and running just to stay in place."
With that last bit, do you mean that a) the geas-restricted Magic points
get replaced by non-geas MPs, in other words that the geas gets removed
from the MP but the magician gains no additional MP; or b) that the
character gains an MP as normal but simply doesn't bother sticking to the
geas for the "lost" MP? Hmm, this may need a "for instance"...
For instance, Jeff the grade 0 initiate loses a magic point (somebody
shot off his arm and he failed his magic loss check). He chooses a geas of
gesturing for the lost MP, so if he gestures he has a Magic rating of 6,
while if he doesn't, it's 5.
Then he initiates to grade 1. If using method A, he'd have a Magic rating
of 6 and no geas; with method B his Magic rating is 6 if he doesn't
gesture, and 7 when he does.
I'm in favor of allowing the player to choose which of the two (s)he
wants.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:36:34 +0100
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Two quick questions...
In-Reply-To: <6671.199707241050@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
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Spike said on 11:50/24 Jul 97...
> |Rob.
> |-----------------------------------------------------------
> |Rob Davies. Rob.Davies@**.cf.ac.uk
> |Department of Computer Science, http://www.cs.cf.ac.uk/
> |University of Wales, Cardiff, Phone +44 1222 874812
> |PO Box 916, Cardiff, CF2 3XF. Fax +44 1222 874598
A slight slip-up, Spike? :)
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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:36:34 +0100
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <01ILMFKU0PFA9I9638@******.acs.muohio.edu>
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Wendy Wanders, Subject 117 said on 17:19/24 Jul 97...
> dice pools refresh on a character's actions, the refresh at the start of a
> combat is an exception to this (i.e. everybody starts a combat with full pools,
> before their first action).
It's not really an exception, if you look at it. Presumably you can also
do things before a combat starts, at which time your pool refreshes too.
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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 11:34:57 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
Chris Maxfield writes
> At 16:43 23/07/97 GMT, Mark Steedman wrote:
> >Um but if firearms become involved?
>
> Yes. I see what you mean. It's not a problem of had to deal with yet. I'd
> probably allocate the initiative loser some dodge pool dice versus range
> attacks if he's in that waiting for refresh period.
>
> >I have been wondering, what about banning people from adding combat
> >pool to skills until they have had an action in combat?
>
> Same result. The Initiative loser puts all his combat pool into full
> defence when the initiative winner attacks and then on his action, when his
> pool refreshes, he gets to attack with all of his dice while the initiative
> winner has little or no dice left in his combat pool. Or do you mean the
> initiative loser can only attack with skill and no pool dice until his
> second action?
No. This version merely banned the slower erson from using combat
pool on thier skill untill their action so use they can still use
full defence. However the faster person will assuming equal skill now
have twice as many attack dice and will hit. If the defender (slow
character) has lots of armour compared to the attack (defnse TN <5)
then yes the first guy now gets creamed, if the defender needs 6's to
dodge however he gets hurt big time and TN penalties will more
than offset his dice advantage (unless he's a physical adept with
enhanced centring, but given what that costs thats fair/ pain
resistance / pain editor).
>
> >Therefore whoever wins the initative gets to add combat pool to the
> >attack while thier opponent does not. Ok the target may still use
> >full defence but. This avoids the problems affecting dice pool
>
> I'm starting to like this solution.
>
> >refresh timing causes if a third person decides to interfer in the
> >melee (especially if its with a gun). Assuming the guy that lost the
> >initiative isn't wearing so much armour that the attacks going to
> >bounce off, the person that wins should now get a big advantage as
> >theres no more 'well i'm going second so pour my pool into melee
> >combat at low TN because it will refresh before my action'.
>
> I agree that this means the initiative winner will be the only one having
> any chance of doing damage initially and is also protected from the
> initiative loser's pool refresh but I don't see this as a large advantage
> .... hang on, damn it, it is a big advantage. You know, I like this rule.
> I'm introducing it into my games.
I haven't tested this as the final refinement is recent and it would
be a house rule, see comments on full defence above.
>
> >Still not perfect. You could always simply ban combat poolmfrom being
> >used against attacks made using 'melee combat' until the person has
> >had an action, it's not as if they are difficult to identify as the
>
> No. If one side has combat pool and the other doesn't then the initiative
> winner is almost always guaranteed to win the combat. He just has to high a
> net advantage in dice. And he only needs it for the first strike to be
> successful and then it's all down hill for his opponent.
Very true. However unless the faster guy is a lot better or delays
till his opponents action the present SR system goes.
guy 1 attacks
target blocks parries etc with full pool
if guy 1 used his pool not a lot happens, if he didn't he get
riposted and hurt.
the slower combatent now goes again full attack, the fast guy being
either hurt or low on dice gets totally creamed unless he is either a
lot better or has enough armour plus body to shrug off the slower
guys attacks.
As SR2 stands you wait for he other to attack and cream him when he
gives you an oppening (realistic, but it fails to reward the higher
intiative guy doing a fient to draw out his opponent and then using
speed to cream him when he uses a fake oppening)
This idea gives the faster person that huge advantage.
From everything i have heard niether is realistic but given te SR
combat system if the faster person uses a feint (not covered by SR)
the outcome at least rewards speed.
it would now go.
Fast person throws a feint.
slow guy tries to take advantage
fast guy uses the oppening offered and creams Mr slow.
Rules wise though all three of the above now happen at Mr fasts first
action.
Comments
>
> >'cannot use combat pool on both the skill roll and dodge' rule
> >already uses this identifier to track it's applicability.
>
> Which rule is this. Do you mean that in full defence you cannot use any
> combat pool dice in the skill test but only in the defence test?
Thats the one, or nearly.
'You cannot spend pool dice on both the attack test and the damage
resistance test at the same time'
You could spend some to hit A with your sword and some to dodge B's
knife but not some to parry C's axe AND some to roll with the blow
when you don't quite manage to parry.
[terms used for description of real event rather than game mechanics
here]
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:36:34 +0100
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.96.970724102239.25771A-100000@*******.cs.uml.edu>
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Steven A. Collins said on 10:42/24 Jul 97...
> True sexually xmitted diseases should be a real concern for characters
> living low lifestyles or less but I try to keep most aspects of
> sexuality out of my game. The reason, as the GM i just can't
> realistically roleplay a woman who the character is trying to "score"
> with.
I was thinking about Twilight: 2000 there, not SR. In SR that should be
easy enough to prevent even at Low lifestyles, but in T2K you're playing a
world that has just gone through a nuclear war...
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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:36:34 +0100
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Your .Sig [OT]
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Joshua T Brown said on 7:26/24 Jul 97...
> David Buehrer-san wa kakimashita -
> >--
> >"ahh, kamisama! watashi no atama ni ono ga arimasu!"
> >
> Nihon'go wa chotto hanashimasu ga wakarimasen' deshita.....
> Errrr.... I mean I speak a fair bit of Japanese... (It's currently
> accounting for 15 credit hours in my summer collegiate courses) but I
> have NO IDEA what it is you were trying to say with that last bit of
> oddly phrased signature material...
Unless I'm severely mistaken, it means "Oh my god! There's an axe in my
head!"
How's that for someone who knows about 7 words Japanese? :)
(Not that it's too hard, all David's .sigs you can't understand say the
same thing in different languages...)
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-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:36:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
In-Reply-To: <199707241642.LAA13295@****.madison.tec.wi.us>
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Someone said...
> > Something else to keep in mind: In order to improve a skill
> > beyond a certain point, you may as a GM require that the
> > player ALWAYS have an instructor. You can only self teach
> > yourself so much.
That is plain nonsense. If it's impossible to teach yourself things
beyond a certain level of skill, we'd never have gotten so far as to
start using tools... The only way to expand knowledge is to learn things
that nobody else knows yet, which by the above statement would be
impossible because there's nobody to teach them to you.
> Who got Stephen Hawking from Astrophysics 9 to 10?
> He did. And who got him from 10 to 11? He did.
>
> At the point of being that high... only you can teach yourself,
> IMO...
My point exactly.
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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:36:34 +0100
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
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David Buehrer said on 7:17/24 Jul 97...
> Thanks, I'll look for a copy of Twilight: 2000 to get started.
If you want to, I could send you a summary. T2K is out of print, and
buying a whole rulebook just for the disease rules could be a bit
unnecessary... :)
> The characters in my game to travel internationally from time to
> time, and that's when they have a chance of catching some disease in
> a third world country, or a disease that the PCs don't have a
> resistance to.
That's always a nasty trick *EGMG* With 2050s medicine I'd give them the
ability to take precautions though, if they think about doing so. If they
don't, it would be their own fault -- you don't travel to tropical
countries nowadays without getting some shots against local diseases, so
why should you in 2058?
> Also, what with corporations getting creative about disposing of
> toxic waste I thing that's a perfect opportunity to start off an
> adventure by poisoning a PC (or friend of) and having the PCs hunt
> down who is responsible.
There's already a FASA adventure that does something similar, although
from a slightly different angle.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 08:57:02 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
In-Reply-To: <970725020557_560078668@*******.mail.aol.com>
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> >be to prevent the use of any of the 'lost' Magic points unless all of the
> Geasa
> >are being met. For example: <example snipped>
>
> Interesting idea. It definitely forces some tough decisions on the
> burnouts. I'll give it some thought. What does everyone else think?
Agreed. All your Geasa or no magic bonus. There should be some
middle state though....a +2 target number type deal?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 07:26:22 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
In-Reply-To: <199707251048.EAA24239@******> from "Gurth" at Jul 25,
97 12:36:34 pm
Content-Type: text
Gurth wrote:
|
| David Buehrer said on 7:17/24 Jul 97...
|
| > Thanks, I'll look for a copy of Twilight: 2000 to get started.
|
| If you want to, I could send you a summary. T2K is out of print, and
| buying a whole rulebook just for the disease rules could be a bit
| unnecessary... :)
Please do. And thanks :)
[snip: disease in foreign countries]
| That's always a nasty trick *EGMG* With 2050s medicine I'd give them the
| ability to take precautions though, if they think about doing so. If they
| don't, it would be their own fault -- you don't travel to tropical
| countries nowadays without getting some shots against local diseases, so
| why should you in 2058?
My parents were stationed in Bangkok, Thailand, last year (State
Department, not diplomats but computer geeks :) and my Dad caught
something freaky that crippled him by causing excruciating pain in
the muscles of his upper left leg. He was evaced back to the states,
but by the time he got back the disease had run it's course and there
was no trace of it left, just the damage it left behind (the doctors
still have no idea what he caught). The damage to his leg had the
side effect that it aggravated his back. Only now is he starting to
recover. Anyway, I'm not looking for sympathy or anything, just
passing along what can happen. And I don't even want to think about
the parasites that you can pick up in third world countries <shudder>
(always buy bottled water).
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 07:27:59 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Your .Sig [OT]
In-Reply-To: <199707251046.EAA23993@******> from "Gurth" at Jul 25,
97 12:36:34 pm
Content-Type: text
Gurth wrote:
|
| (Not that it's too hard, all David's .sigs you can't understand say the
| same thing in different languages...)
Alas, the freeware random .sig generator I had crashed and I lost all
of them. No more axes in the head for me :)
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:31:25 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
Gurth writes
> > ... or a baseball bat covered with insecticide... that's the only way we
> > lived through bug city.
>
> My players never did think of the simple fact that insects might be
> vulnerable to insecticides (though now I've said it on the list, I'm
> pretty sure at least one of them will think of it next time they encounter
> a bucnh of bugs... :)
>
Lucky you.
I gave up on bugs, the PC's insecticide useage was starting to find
things they fall for in style, it was either use force 20+ bugs to
survive the clever attacks with S wounds and cleave all the PC's to
bits the moment an unhurt one made melee or allow whole scale
slaughter (these folks killed a force 10 spirit energy 5 queen and
were reaching the stage where when someone got it right force tens
were target practice, another couple of fights and i would have been
for it!). When it came to a hive they just hijacked a whole tanker of
insecticide and rammed the thing!
It's not fair!!!!
Still they now have Triad, Mob and Yak problems :) and they don't
fall for that :) muh ha ha.
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 07:36:51 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Karmic Winds
In-Reply-To: <199707250246.UAA08126@******> from "J. Keith Henry" at Jul
24,
97 10:45:26 pm
Content-Type: text
J. Keith Henry wrote:
|
[snip]
Come on baby light my fire. ;)
Seriously though, that was an exceptional allegory.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 08:54:41 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: [GC] A Drive in the Country
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At 02:30 PM 7/24/97 -0700, Mike Buckalew wrote:
>The Kumquat Wrote:
>I did preregister and I did get into A Drive in the Country. I got my
>prereg tickets yesterday and the interesting thing is that it lists Jill
>Lucas as the GM for this event.
>
>Is this just because it's a FASA sponsored event, or is she actually one
>of the three (I think it's three) GMs running the game in the first round?
Last year they had more than 3 judges (I think there were 10 or so groups
of 6 for the first round.) And they took some generic tickets too.
>Anyway, I'm very excited. I got in to every game I signed up for, with
>only one (The Babylon Project) being shifted to a different time. It's
>going to be a busy 4 days!
Heh. You're not running :)
Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/
The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton
Gencon count down: 12 days
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 23:11:47 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <45350D31200@******.eee.rgu.ac.uk>
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At 11:34 25/07/97 GMT, Mark Steedman wrote:
>No. This version merely banned the slower erson from using combat
>pool on thier skill untill their action so use they can still use
>full defence. However the faster person will assuming equal skill now
>have twice as many attack dice and will hit. If the defender (slow
>character) has lots of armour compared to the attack (defnse TN <5)
>then yes the first guy now gets creamed, if the defender needs 6's to
>dodge however he gets hurt big time and TN penalties will more
>than offset his dice advantage (unless he's a physical adept with
>enhanced centring, but given what that costs thats fair/ pain
>resistance / pain editor).
Don't forget though, if the initiative loser (the defender) can place all
of his combat pool into full defense for the initiative winner's attack
there's a good chance, with all else equal, that the defender will not take
any damage. And then we're back to the original problem. Unless, of course,
the defender has no armour or the power of the attack is high. Even then,
this initial damage to the initiative loser may not be enough to off set
his pool refresh advantage. Oops, I see you discuss this below. Mmmm. I'll
have to think further about this. For the moment I'd still prefer mandating
the initiative loser to not be able to use combat pool on his skill rolls
until his second action.
>Very true. However unless the faster guy is a lot better or delays
>till his opponents action the present SR system goes.
>
>guy 1 attacks
>target blocks parries etc with full pool
> if guy 1 used his pool not a lot happens, if he didn't he get
>riposted and hurt.
>
>the slower combatent now goes again full attack, the fast guy being
>either hurt or low on dice gets totally creamed unless he is either a
>lot better or has enough armour plus body to shrug off the slower
>guys attacks.
Which is why I suggested that the initiative loser could not add pool dice
to skill until his second action. I know its a klunky work-around but I
suppose SR rules just don't reflect the tactics of battle too well. It's
why we GMs have to be good story tellers. :-)
>
>As SR2 stands you wait for he other to attack and cream him when he
>gives you an oppening (realistic, but it fails to reward the higher
>intiative guy doing a fient to draw out his opponent and then using
>speed to cream him when he uses a fake oppening)
>This idea gives the faster person that huge advantage.
I just don't like huge advantages merely because of a quicker initiative of
just a phase or two. It sought of makes the combat pointless when the two
opponents are otherwise so equal. Just declare the initiative winner the
victor and move on to the next scene. However, if the initiative winner has
a truly significant initiative advantage (ie. the opponents are not equal)
such that he has two (or even more) actions before the loser has an action
then we have an interesting situation that accurately (as far as SR rules
can) reflects what you are asking for with feints - and just using the base
rules:
1. First guy attacks with max combat pool dice
2. Second guy defends/counter-attacks using all his combat pool to avoid
being creamed.
3. First guy attacks again with a refreshed combat pool.
4. Second guy has not yet had an action and so his combat pool has not been
refreshed. He is mince meat.
>> Which rule is this. Do you mean that in full defence you cannot use any
>> combat pool dice in the skill test but only in the defence test?
>Thats the one, or nearly.
>'You cannot spend pool dice on both the attack test and the damage
>resistance test at the same time'
>You could spend some to hit A with your sword and some to dodge B's
>knife but not some to parry C's axe AND some to roll with the blow
>when you don't quite manage to parry.
No, you're right, this is not the full defence rule. I can't find your rule
anywhere in the BBB. Could you give me a page reference please?
Chris
_______________________________________________________________
Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:24:38 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
Chris Maxfield writes
> >
> >As SR2 stands you wait for he other to attack and cream him when he
> >gives you an oppening (realistic, but it fails to reward the higher
> >intiative guy doing a fient to draw out his opponent and then using
> >speed to cream him when he uses a fake oppening)
> >This idea gives the faster person that huge advantage.
>
> I just don't like huge advantages merely because of a quicker initiative of
> just a phase or two. It sought of makes the combat pointless when the two
> opponents are otherwise so equal. Just declare the initiative winner the
> victor and move on to the next scene.
ok i can see that, though given unaugmented combatents that would be
a significant achievement.
> However, if the initiative winner has
> a truly significant initiative advantage (ie. the opponents are not equal)
> such that he has two (or even more) actions before the loser has an action
> then we have an interesting situation that accurately (as far as SR rules
> can) reflects what you are asking for with feints - and just using the base
> rules:
Yes. I will therefore rebuild the example for 1 action before and
your no dice on first attack for the slower character.
1. First guy attacks with max combat pool dice
2. Second guy defends/counter-attacks using all his combat pool to avoid
being creamed.
All even.
3. Second guy attacks again with no pool.
and the first defends with none either (unless he had a lot compared
to his skill but such is not the result unless folks have serious
bonuses that should affect matters) again even.
4. first guy attacks with full pool, and yes his target also has a
full pool (because he wasn't allowed to use it), again standoff.
Second guy gets to his second action if he rolled 11 or more
he has a full combat pool the fast guy doesn't, OUCH!
And if you ban the slow guy from using it on skill rolls to defend
either he gets creamed or just usues full defence instead depending
on power level vs armour.
> >> Which rule is this. Do you mean that in full defence you cannot use any
> >> combat pool dice in the skill test but only in the defence test?
> >Thats the one, or nearly.
> >'You cannot spend pool dice on both the attack test and the damage
> >resistance test at the same time'
> >You could spend some to hit A with your sword and some to dodge B's
> >knife but not some to parry C's axe AND some to roll with the blow
> >when you don't quite manage to parry.
>
> No, you're right, this is not the full defence rule. I can't find your rule
> anywhere in the BBB. Could you give me a page reference please?
>
Page refs are not easy as book is not near email account. It is
amongst the stuff about the full defence rule though, it that you may
not use full defence if you spend any combat pool on the skill roll
against the melee attack that just hit you.
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:31:09 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Area Spells
Steve Kenson wrote:
>2) A valid target is one which the caster: a) can
>see or assense, unaided by technology and,
Point of clarification, please: what about targets
who are under the effects of invisibility, using
stealth, a spirit's concealment power etc? The
casting mage COULD see them if he rolls high
enough on his perception roll, but what if he
doesn't even bother to look? In other words,
does the mage have to "see" them, or "notice"
them?
Double-Domed Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:37:54 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: Area Spells
Steve Kenson writes
>
> 1) Area-effect spells DO NOT have to be centered on a person. The caster
> centers the spell wherever is desired. All valid targets within the radius of
> the spell's effect are affected. The key word here is VALID targets. Which
> brings us to:
That would be a change though it would make sense as otherwise
targeting loopholes get found, especially for power spells, finding
something to centre a fireball on, even an old drinks can isn't
difficult.
[snippety snip]
> I think the whole "synchronize auras" stuff is bogus, or at least badly
> explained.
I think badly explained. It makes sense as 'how it works' given the
system base but what you have described here is far superior for
explaining how to implement it in rule for player usage.
> Example: Talon tosses a manaball at a security mage, two corp guards and an
> elemental the mage has hanging around in astral space. Talon can see the mage
> and one guard. The other guard is up against the wall on the other side of
> the open doorway.
I agree with the result of this completely. It might be worth making
it clear who you calculate all the TN's for the spell though like
this as that based on comments to the list also causes problems.
> This is how all area-effect combat spells (and other area-type spells like
> Chaos) work. The only exception is Damaging Manipulations, which create a
> real, physical medium the caster directs at the targets. The blast radius of
> a damaging manipulation affects all physical targets in the area of effect,
> whether the caster can see them or not.
>
The one we could use here is LOS and damaging manipulations. Is the
TN to hit the security guard behind the door in your example [i
snipped] with a flamebomb (he being immune to anything but a DM)
landed in the middle of the doorway betwwen Mr mage and guard 1 a 4
'because you have a clear LOS on the doorway' or a 12 'becasue the
target is invisible +8 for blind fire' ?
And clear up what the descriptions implay but the rules don't state
that the elemental is immune to the flamebomb even if the mage
casting it is astrally percepting because the spell is dual but
explodes on the physical plane only 'because the magical flame must
have a physical component'. Similarly that you cannot cast DM's while
astrally projecting (as astral magicians have no armour thay are FAR
too lethal were this to be allowed). It might also be worth making
the 'no projecting and sustaining spells' rule clearer. And while we
are at it clear up the effect of initiate shielding and damaging
manipulations, does it as i belive rasie the effective body but not
the 'fixed' TN4 which is the same as spell defence, or does it plain
rasie TN's in which case initiates with some shielding left are
utterly immune to magic (unless the rule stating you need net
successes to hurt peple with magic is revoked, which is a house rule
i use).
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:19:56 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Kristling the Weird <kristlingweird@*********.COM>
Organization: Founder & Supreme Dictator for Life, Lightmoon Project
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
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Technomancer wrote:
>
> OK, I love the new way of the geasa (never liked the other one).
I think it's cool.
> So to sum up (and offer my view):
> a) Following a geas allows one to "keep" the lost point.
> MV=> Great, I think this is how it should be.
> b) If you have multiple geasa follow them all or lose all the points.
> MV=> I think it is kind of harsh, but not inherently wrong.
Indeed, but I think the loss of such power SHOULD be harsh.
> c) What happens upon initiation ?
> MV=> Either gain a new Magic Point and keep the geas or lose the geas
> without droping in Magic rating. (Actualy abandon the geas, losing a point
> that is instantly regained free of geasa.)
I'd let player's choose. (Let me see, while casting Powerball at force 7
would be neat, I'd rather do without a time gesa. I'l stay at six magic
but drop that gesa. Now, I just have to deal with geturing....
(Next time, I haven't found gesture too restrictive, so I keep it and
get up to seven magic.... oh, Mr Saaaaaammmmmmyy........)
> And what is that I hear about using geasa to counter cyberware?
> I thought geasa where used to counter magic loss due to wounds etc., not
> due to essence loss. Essence loss should remove Magic points permanently,
> without any options for keeping them (You are making yourself weaker and
> unable to hold his full potential of astral energy).
Agreed. Though I do think sr3 should include notes on "spiritual
healing". This would allow characters to regain essence. I feel, if you
can make up for loses/ inadequecies in the other attributes (even magic,
which is linked to essence) you should do it with essence.
If it did....
A) Before this can happen, you must remove any cyberware causing a
loss.
B) I haven't read the stuff on cyber zombies, but from what I heard....
this ain't an option for 'em.
--Rush is a GREAT rock group. And yes, this is true.
Kristling The Weird
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/5482/
kristlingweird@*********.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:42:17 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <199707251425.IAA12029@******> from "Mark Steedman" at Jul
25,
97 03:24:38 pm
Content-Type: text
I mentioned this before, but I think I got blown off.
Refresh everyone's pools at the beginning of combat. From that point
on the characters' pools refresh at the *end* of their action
phases.
Character A attacks first, using all of his combat pool. Character B
defends, also using all of his combat pool. Everything being even, B
successfully defends. Niether side takes any damage. A's pool
refreshes.
B attacks, but he doesn't have a combat pool. A defends with some of
the dice from his combat pool and comes out on top. B's pool
refreshes.
A attacks using what's left of his combat pool. B can use all of his
combat pool to make sure he doesn't get hit, or try to hedge it and
save dice for his attack on his next action.
And so on. The advantage that B had is removed, and the players have
to start doing some serious thinking when the allocate pool dice to
tests.
Please, give this some thought, then let me know what's wrong with it
:)
BTW, in my game successful defense results in the failure of the
attack, not a counter-attack. But even with counter-attacks, A's
initiative bonus is just that, a bonus, not a detriment.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:59:02 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Kristling the Weird <kristlingweird@*********.COM>
Organization: Founder & Supreme Dictator for Life, Lightmoon Project
Subject: Re: Rumour Mill
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Bull wrote:
>
> Hoi kids, It's me again...;]
>
> I just got a mail from Mike Mulvhill kinda confirming a few things, and
> backing up what Lou said on the ED list about the runours of buyouts and such.
>
> Just figured you might like the word from the SR man himself...:]
>
<snip>
Thanks, Bull, for helping this myth die quickly on this list.
--
Kristling The Weird
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/5482/
kristlingweird@*********.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 18:05:27 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paolo Marcucci <paolo@*********.IT>
Subject: The Shadowrun Archive Channel
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Push technology, Dynamic HTML, daily updates, a pic of Dunkelzahn,
brilliant colors, semi-intelligent ponderings in the new installation of
the Archive.
Looks better if you have ie40 :)
http://www.interware.it/shadowrun/channel/index.htm
This thing should go live from Aug 1st, so look at it, subscribe, test and
let me know...
Thanks to all, Paolo
____________________________________________________________
Paolo Marcucci paolo@*********.it
InterWare Service Provider Trieste, Italy
http://www.interware.it/ Tel. +39-40-360630
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 11:24:41 -0500
Reply-To: swordman@******.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Swordman <swordman@******.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Shadowrun Movies (was Re: A Li'l Ole Question)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Mike Loseke wrote:
> The ones that I have seem are "The Killer" and "Hardboiled", both
of
> which would be good source material for SR. His Hollywood movies aren't
> that great right now,
I think "Hard Target" was a great film. Actualy Chance (Van Damme) is
a real munchin character... we've calculated most of his shot's to be
at least 8+ target numbers...
And Don't forget any Thomas Ian Griffith movie like "Excessive Force",
"Cracker Jack" or "Hollow Point"
BTW for a REAL Shadowrun like movie, try the Origianl "Nemesis"
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 11:15:50 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Adam J. Lyle" <wolfjack@****.BCL.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Shadowrun Movies (was Re: A Li'l Ole Question)
In-Reply-To: <33D8D348.5A96@******.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
> BTW for a REAL Shadowrun like movie, try the Origianl "Nemesis"
>
I thought that "Nemesis" had more of a CyberPunk, R. Talsorian Games,
feel to it that an SR one. Some of the quotes, how things were done, etc
were very CyberPunk.
Not that I am saying I like CyberPunk over Sr.
Adam
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:48:29 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: The Shadowrun Archive Channel
In-Reply-To: <199707251607.KAA16666@******>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Paolo Marcucci wrote:
)Push technology, Dynamic HTML, daily updates, a pic of Dunkelzahn,
)brilliant colors, semi-intelligent ponderings in the new installation of
)the Archive.
What the heck is a .cdf file?
-David
--
"The mind is a wonderful thing. It starts working the minute you're
born & never stops until you get up to speak in public."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:50:03 -0500
Reply-To: swordman@******.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Swordman <swordman@******.NET>
Subject: Re: question
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Simon T. Sailer wrote:
>
> > We generally either leave them out if they weren't essential to the
> > plotline or we're in a bad mood.
> >
> > Lady Jestyr
>
> You leave them out even if the character didn't have time to leave?
> So he just disappears sometimes and reappears later? Well, thats the
> easiest sulution, but the least satisfying one.
>
> ss
Personaly I try to find out who will be at the next sesion before hand.
If a player can't make it, I just talk to them then and ask "so what is
you character going to do?", but in the event they can't make it
something "The Tick" like happens, like a metor from space knocks the
character out convienently untill the next session. The others know
what's up and at times throw the unconsious body in the trunk of thier
car untill the person come around.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 11:49:40 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: The Shadowrun Archive Channel
In-Reply-To: <199707251649.KAA18625@******> from "David Buehrer" at Jul
25,
97 10:48:29 am
Content-Type: text
David Buehrer wrote:
|
| Paolo Marcucci wrote:
| )Push technology, Dynamic HTML, daily updates, a pic of Dunkelzahn,
| )brilliant colors, semi-intelligent ponderings in the new installation of
| )the Archive.
|
| What the heck is a .cdf file?
Gee, that didn't make much sense did it?
I checked out the new site, which looks great BTW. I clicked on the
button to subscribe and it started to download a .cdf file. I have no
idea what a .cdf file is, or what it is used for. Help.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:03:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [GC] A Drive in the Country
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>I did preregister and I did get into A Drive in the Country. I got my
>>prereg tickets yesterday and the interesting thing is that it lists Jill
>>Lucas as the GM for this event.
>>
I'm in it as well now, so... gee... how many listmembers will be playing
in that event?? :]
>>Anyway, I'm very excited. I got in to every game I signed up for, with
>>only one (The Babylon Project) being shifted to a different time. It's
>>going to be a busy 4 days!
>
Lucky you... Looks like I missed out on a couple games I signed up for...
Drive in the Country was the only event I ended up with a ticket for...
but I've got planty of Generic Tickets now...:]
>Heh. You're not running :)
>
Thank God...;] bad enough trying to run for guys I know...:]
See ya'll there! ;]
Bull-who-still-wants-to-get-a-decent-ork-costume-for-GC
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 20:16:19 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paolo Marcucci <paolo@*********.IT>
Subject: Re: The Shadowrun Archive Channel
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:49 25/07/97 -0600, David Buehrer said:
>I checked out the new site, which looks great BTW. I clicked on the
>button to subscribe and it started to download a .cdf file. I have no
>idea what a .cdf file is, or what it is used for. Help.
You should have ie40 to use the channel function. If you don't have it,
just browse the site normally, but it won't be sent to you with a daily
schedule, that is, you should connect and enter the site to see changes.
Bye, Paolo
____________________________________________________________
Paolo Marcucci paolo@*********.it
InterWare Service Provider Trieste, Italy
http://www.interware.it/ Tel. +39-40-360630
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:33:28 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
On Wednesday, July 23, 1997 19:09, Loki[SMTP:daddyjim@**********.COM]
wrote:
> ---Jonathan Hurley wrote:
> >
> >
> > Oh, and ItNW doesn't work against a certain kind of ranged weapon,
> bows.
> > (Not x-bows, thought.)
>
> Actually ITNW as a power works against all mundane attacks (fist,
> sword, club, gun, bow, etc.). The limited form of ITNW that comes with
> Manifestation, however, works as you've described.
>
Ahah. Thank you for that clarification. I don't think I've ever put the PCs
up against anything with immunity to normal weapons, just manifestation,
and that's why I thought that.
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:43:30 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
On Thursday, July 24, 1997 10:51, John E Pederson[SMTP:lobo1@****.COM]
wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:17:07 +0100 "Simon T. Sailer"
> <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT> writes:
>
> >Well, if you rolled 4 sixes with 9 dice.... *grin* can you do it
> >again?
> >On an average roll, you will get 1 or two successes, and the spirit
> >takes deadly damage.
>
>
> Yes, and on an average roll, the sammie wouldn't have hit the broad side
> of a very large barn with that full auto burst (the sammie's TN would
> have been at least 13, 12 or 11 with a laser sight or smartlink,
> respectively).
Oh, I dunno. Example: Snapshot (a PC) honks off a nine-round burst at a
target. He's using an Ares Alpha combat gun(Two points recoil comp) with a
shock pad (another point.) He's got a strength of 7 (another 2 points (FoF
p83) for a grand reduction of 5, bringing his target number (at close
range, with his smartgun link) to 6. Not bad at all, all things considered.
If he was using a weapon with IGV4, he'd be looking at 4's for a target
number. Because of the way the Ares Alpha description is worded, he could
*add* the IGV4 to the weapon and get his TN down to 2. (The weapon offers 2
points of recoil comp, *and* can take barrel mounted accessories. Now I see
why this weapon is so hard to get.)
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:50:21 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
On Thursday, July 24, 1997 12:17, Michael
Broadwater[SMTP:mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM] wrote:
> But you are right on one thing: a kick to the groin's not going to stop a
> fight. That's why you follow it up.
A kick to the kneecap, on the other hand. Or a good stomp to the foot. Both
ways to slow down the opponent, maybe cripple him, without exposing
yourself.
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:45:07 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
> Date: Friday, July 25, 1997 2:43 PM
> On Thursday, July 24, 1997 10:51, John E Pederson[SMTP:lobo1@****.COM]
> wrote:
> > On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:17:07 +0100 "Simon T. Sailer"
> > <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT> writes:
> > >Well, if you rolled 4 sixes with 9 dice.... *grin* can you do it
> > >again?
> > >On an average roll, you will get 1 or two successes, and the spirit
> > >takes deadly damage.
> > Yes, and on an average roll, the sammie wouldn't have hit the broad
side
> > of a very large barn with that full auto burst (the sammie's TN would
> > have been at least 13, 12 or 11 with a laser sight or smartlink,
> > respectively).
> Oh, I dunno. Example: Snapshot (a PC) honks off a nine-round burst at a
> target. He's using an Ares Alpha combat gun(Two points recoil comp) with
a
> shock pad (another point.) He's got a strength of 7 (another 2 points
(FoF
> p83) for a grand reduction of 5, bringing his target number (at close
> range, with his smartgun link) to 6. Not bad at all, all things
considered.
Well, gee. Don't forget that it can be dark in those underground hives,
incurring vision modifiers. Is the sammie walking or running? How about
the bugs, are they moving too? All these things need to be kept in mind
when assigning TNs. That's why gun battles take awhile...lots of lead that
doesn't hit anything. This also makes spell casting more deadly (many of
these mods don't apply to spellcasting, except for DMs).
<Snip>
> Quicksilver rides again
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:57:18 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
On Thursday, July 24, 1997 22:42, John E Pederson[SMTP:lobo1@****.COM]
wrote:
> With geasa, Magic Rating is a full 6 (8) :)
BZZZT. Thank you for playing. Geasa do *NOT* give you back magic points.
See p52, Grim II. The only benefit a mage gets from Geasa is the ability to
initiate. If he gives up on geasa, he may *never* initiate.
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:01:07 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 02:57 PM 7/25/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>With geasa, Magic Rating is a full 6 (8) :)
>BZZZT. Thank you for playing. Geasa do *NOT* give you back magic points.
>See p52, Grim II. The only benefit a mage gets from Geasa is the ability to
>initiate. If he gives up on geasa, he may *never* initiate.
True, but I believe this character was being created to illustrate what
*might* be possible under the new Geasa rules suggested for SR3 (hence the
"was: [SR3] Geasa" bit...) in which Geasa would indeed allow someone to
retain their magic rating by taking Geasa. This is not a canonical thread.
Although my contribution works just fine canonically, his Chromium Mage was
made to illustrate what could be done under the proposed system.
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:00:24 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
> Date: Friday, July 25, 1997 2:57 PM
>
> On Thursday, July 24, 1997 22:42, John E Pederson[SMTP:lobo1@****.COM]
> wrote:
>
> > With geasa, Magic Rating is a full 6 (8) :)
> BZZZT. Thank you for playing. Geasa do *NOT* give you back magic points.
> See p52, Grim II. The only benefit a mage gets from Geasa is the ability
to
> initiate. If he gives up on geasa, he may *never* initiate.
Mr. Hurley, you would do well not to be so harsh about your responses. You
would also do well to read the threads related to this post before making a
response.
This thread was about creating a mage using the alternate Geasa rules that
have been discussed for a little while on this list. According to those
alternate rules, this is valid. Those rules is the entire reason this post
(and thread) was made in the first place.
> --
> Quicksilver rides again
Justin
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 21:05:30 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
In-Reply-To: <1494446EF@******.eee.rgu.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Mark Steedman said on 14:31/25 Jul 97...
> I gave up on bugs, the PC's insecticide useage was starting to find
> things they fall for in style, it was either use force 20+ bugs to
> survive the clever attacks with S wounds and cleave all the PC's to
> bits the moment an unhurt one made melee or allow whole scale
> slaughter (these folks killed a force 10 spirit energy 5 queen and
> were reaching the stage where when someone got it right force tens
> were target practice, another couple of fights and i would have been
> for it!). When it came to a hive they just hijacked a whole tanker of
> insecticide and rammed the thing!
When things get that far, I think it's either time to make a new enemy, or
start a new campaign depending on whether the players want to keep
playing their current characters.
> It's not fair!!!!
I have this slight problem that the guy whose right leg got removed in two
different games when I was GMing is about to run an adventure for our
group... I'm thinking about bringing my body armor to the next session :)
> Still they now have Triad, Mob and Yak problems :) and they don't
> fall for that :) muh ha ha.
Two of my three players are currently in hospital with Deadly wounds, and
I think I'll have someone make them an offer they can't refuse...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:10:13 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: Area Spells
On Friday, July 25, 1997 10:31, Mike Elkins[SMTP:MikeE@*********.COM]
wrote:
> Steve Kenson wrote:
> >2) A valid target is one which the caster: a) can
> >see or assense, unaided by technology and,
>
> Point of clarification, please: what about targets
> who are under the effects of invisibility, using
> stealth, a spirit's concealment power etc? The
> casting mage COULD see them if he rolls high
> enough on his perception roll, but what if he
> doesn't even bother to look? In other words,
> does the mage have to "see" them, or "notice"
> them?
The way SRII invisibility works (is game mechanics) is that everybody has a
TN penalty (can be quite huge) to see the person under invis. Ditto trying
to shoot him, etc. If the mage beats that tn penalty on casting, he notices
the guy, and channels a bit of energy his way.
IMHO of course.
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:06:08 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 02:45 PM 7/25/97 -0400, Justin wrote:
>Well, gee. Don't forget that it can be dark in those underground hives,
>incurring vision modifiers. Is the sammie walking or running? How about
>the bugs, are they moving too? All these things need to be kept in mind
>when assigning TNs. That's why gun battles take awhile...lots of lead that
>doesn't hit anything. This also makes spell casting more deadly (many of
>these mods don't apply to spellcasting, except for DMs).
S'why I would never fire full-auto unless I wanted to use cover-fire rules.
Use the first cimple action to aim, the second to fire a three-round burst.
Keeps target numbers VERY low and does damage through increased successes
rather than obscenely high power. I never did understand why people liked
using more than one simple action for firing each round...
But that is neither here nor there... I've missed a great deal of this
thread and I was wondering what this had to do with unarmed combat?
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:25:22 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
On Friday, July 25, 1997 14:45, Justin Pinnow[SMTP:vanyel@*******.NET]
wrote:
> > From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
> > To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> > Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
> > Date: Friday, July 25, 1997 2:43 PM
>
> > On Thursday, July 24, 1997 10:51, John E Pederson[SMTP:lobo1@****.COM]
> > wrote:
> > Oh, I dunno. Example: Snapshot (a PC) honks off a nine-round burst at a
> > target. He's using an Ares Alpha combat gun(Two points recoil comp)
with
> a
> > shock pad (another point.) He's got a strength of 7 (another 2 points
> (FoF
> > p83) for a grand reduction of 5, bringing his target number (at close
> > range, with his smartgun link) to 6. Not bad at all, all things
> considered.
>
> Well, gee. Don't forget that it can be dark in those underground hives,
> incurring vision modifiers. Is the sammie walking or running? How about
> the bugs, are they moving too? All these things need to be kept in mind
> when assigning TNs. That's why gun battles take awhile...lots of lead
that
> doesn't hit anything. This also makes spell casting more deadly (many of
> these mods don't apply to spellcasting, except for DMs).
No kidding. But my point is that all of the recoil has been canceled, by
stuff that only cancels recoil. Those other modifiers apply to ranged
combat whether or not you're firing 1 bullet or 10.
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:26:54 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
On Friday, July 25, 1997 15:01, TopCat[SMTP:topcat@***.NET] wrote:
> At 02:57 PM 7/25/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >>With geasa, Magic Rating is a full 6 (8) :)
>
> >BZZZT. Thank you for playing. Geasa do *NOT* give you back magic points.
> >See p52, Grim II. The only benefit a mage gets from Geasa is the ability to
> >initiate. If he gives up on geasa, he may *never* initiate.
>
> True, but I believe this character was being created to illustrate what
> *might* be possible under the new Geasa rules suggested for SR3 (hence the
> "was: [SR3] Geasa" bit...) in which Geasa would indeed allow someone to
> retain their magic rating by taking Geasa. This is not a canonical thread.
> Although my contribution works just fine canonically, his Chromium Mage was
> made to illustrate what could be done under the proposed system.
> --
> Bob Ooton
> topcat@***.net
Which I realized when I got to the top of my mailbox (I read threads in reverse
alphabetical order)
Apologies to whoever came up with the character..
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:28:40 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
On Friday, July 25, 1997 15:00, Justin Pinnow[SMTP:vanyel@*******.NET] wrote:
> > From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
> > To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> > Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
> > Date: Friday, July 25, 1997 2:57 PM
> >
> > On Thursday, July 24, 1997 22:42, John E Pederson[SMTP:lobo1@****.COM]
> > wrote:
> >
> > > With geasa, Magic Rating is a full 6 (8) :)
>
> > BZZZT. Thank you for playing. Geasa do *NOT* give you back magic points.
> > See p52, Grim II. The only benefit a mage gets from Geasa is the ability
> to
> > initiate. If he gives up on geasa, he may *never* initiate.
>
> Mr. Hurley, you would do well not to be so harsh about your responses. You
> would also do well to read the threads related to this post before making a
> response.
>
> This thread was about creating a mage using the alternate Geasa rules that
> have been discussed for a little while on this list. According to those
> alternate rules, this is valid. Those rules is the entire reason this post
> (and thread) was made in the first place.
I apologize. I hadn't realized (due to not reading the title very closely) that the
character was a result of a proposed rules change.
I'm a little trigger-happy about it because of an incident early in my GMing days.
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:27:24 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
> Date: Friday, July 25, 1997 3:25 PM
>
> On Friday, July 25, 1997 14:45, Justin Pinnow[SMTP:vanyel@*******.NET]
> wrote:
> > > From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
> > > Date: Friday, July 25, 1997 2:43 PM
> > Well, gee. Don't forget that it can be dark in those underground
hives,
> > incurring vision modifiers. Is the sammie walking or running? How
about
> > the bugs, are they moving too? All these things need to be kept in
mind
> > when assigning TNs. That's why gun battles take awhile...lots of lead
> that
> > doesn't hit anything. This also makes spell casting more deadly (many
of
> > these mods don't apply to spellcasting, except for DMs).
> No kidding. But my point is that all of the recoil has been canceled, by
> stuff that only cancels recoil. Those other modifiers apply to ranged
> combat whether or not you're firing 1 bullet or 10.
Okay. The point I am trying to make is that you got the TN down to a 6
before any of these other modifiers were applied. The point you made about
it being easy to hit in such a case just isn't true. That's why I brought
up the other modifiers, and they didn't even include cover mods. You will
be looking at TNs from 8-16 after all these mods are applied...that's not
easy to do.
> --
> Quicksilver rides again
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:46:47 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
On Friday, July 25, 1997 15:27, Justin Pinnow[SMTP:vanyel@*******.NET]
wrote:
> > From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
> > No kidding. But my point is that all of the recoil has been canceled,
by
> > stuff that only cancels recoil. Those other modifiers apply to ranged
> > combat whether or not you're firing 1 bullet or 10.
>
> Okay. The point I am trying to make is that you got the TN down to a 6
> before any of these other modifiers were applied. The point you made
about
> it being easy to hit in such a case just isn't true. That's why I
brought
> up the other modifiers, and they didn't even include cover mods. You
will
> be looking at TNs from 8-16 after all these mods are applied...that's not
> easy to do.
I got the target number down to a 2! before other modifiers applied. (Ares
alpha has 2 points inherent recoil comp & can take barrel-mount
accessories, thus a IGV4 can be added. Add a shock pad and 7 strength to
completely negate the recoil, and a smartgun brings the TN to a 2.)
Now, admittedly, this is an extreme case (not too many weapon/accessory
combos can apply 7 points of recoil comp before strength) but with IGV4,
shock pads, and strength mods running around, even 6round aimed bursts are
possible without too much effort.
But that's not the point. Bugs are faster, and clean up in HtH. Charge the
guy. Sure he drops one, maybe two, before the bugs get there, but then he's
hosed.
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:06:45 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: The Shadowrun Archive Channel
In-Reply-To: <199707251818.MAA22321@******> from "Paolo Marcucci" at Jul
25,
97 08:16:19 pm
Content-Type: text
Paolo Marcucci wrote:
|
| At 11:49 25/07/97 -0600, David Buehrer said:
| >I checked out the new site, which looks great BTW. I clicked on the
| >button to subscribe and it started to download a .cdf file. I have no
| >idea what a .cdf file is, or what it is used for. Help.
|
| You should have ie40 to use the channel function. If you don't have it,
| just browse the site normally, but it won't be sent to you with a daily
| schedule, that is, you should connect and enter the site to see changes.
So I downloaded ie40. The damn thing left me 3.4 megs of space on my
hardrive, and installed that web-interface desktop. Oi! It took me
two hours to get everything straightened out! Thanks loads Paolo ;)
Anyway, I didn't have time to look at it to closely, but on the
surface it looks good. Love that remote :) I'm looking forward to
see how the channel thing works.
For anyone else that plans on downloading ie40, make sure you have at
least 100 megs of free disk space. And to turn off that web/desktop
go to control panel, add/remove programs, and select ie40. After you
click on the remove button it'll give you the option of selectivly
uninstalling parts of it, and that's where you can turn off the
web/desktop.
Oi.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:10:30 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Loseke <mike@******.VERINET.COM>
Subject: Re: The Shadowrun Archive Channel
In-Reply-To: <199707252206.QAA02434@******> from "David Buehrer" at Jul
25,
97 04:06:45 pm
Content-Type: text
Quoth David Buehrer:
>
> Paolo Marcucci wrote:
> |
> | At 11:49 25/07/97 -0600, David Buehrer said:
> | >I checked out the new site, which looks great BTW. I clicked on the
> | >button to subscribe and it started to download a .cdf file. I have no
> | >idea what a .cdf file is, or what it is used for. Help.
> |
> | You should have ie40 to use the channel function. If you don't have it,
> | just browse the site normally, but it won't be sent to you with a daily
> | schedule, that is, you should connect and enter the site to see changes.
>
> So I downloaded ie40. The damn thing left me 3.4 megs of space on my
> hardrive, and installed that web-interface desktop. Oi! It took me
> two hours to get everything straightened out! Thanks loads Paolo ;)
>
> Anyway, I didn't have time to look at it to closely, but on the
> surface it looks good. Love that remote :) I'm looking forward to
> see how the channel thing works.
>
> For anyone else that plans on downloading ie40, make sure you have at
> least 100 megs of free disk space. And to turn off that web/desktop
> go to control panel, add/remove programs, and select ie40. After you
> click on the remove button it'll give you the option of selectivly
> uninstalling parts of it, and that's where you can turn off the
> web/desktop.
All I can say is "Thank God Microsoft doesn't have any control on what
I use as my window manager on Solaris/Linux/NeXT/HP/etc..." ;)
--
| "Remember children: Once you pull the
Mike Loseke | pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend."
mike@*******.com | -- B. Merkley
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:26:31 +0200
Reply-To: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.net>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Hallucinogens in SR
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 18:12:21 -0500, Joshua T Brown wrote:
>Here's a question to throw out to the list and watch get ripped to
>shreds....
>(I've always viewed starting a new thread around here as the Email
>equivalent to throwing a bloody steak into a pit filled with underfed
>rottweilers...<smirk>)
Interesting analogy :)
>Any ideas on the game mechanics/effects for the use of hallucinogens in
>SR? Peyote, LSD, Shrooms... How hard might they be to acquire? How might
Perhaps you can buy a lot of them at your talismonger, especially if
he/she/it is shamanic. And then there will be the "normal" illegal drug
market.
>they affect Magicians, especially shamans? (Keeping in mind the native
>belief in peyote as a method of inducing visions and becoming closer to
>the spirits) What nasty side affects might certain hallucinogens have
Let them affect shamans just like you suggested :) well, might mean
they are better at everything astral, but of course distracted from the
physical world. Astral perception might work better, perhaps
hallucinations prove to be views into astral ... Hey, there arise great
ideas to introduce shamans to magic ... in our campaign one player's
character is a boy just getting a shaman ... hallucinogens might help
him developing astral perception ...
Well, back to my point (if there is one). In little doses, a
hallucinogen might work just like using dual perception, that is +2 to
everything mundane (IIRC). Higer doses could make that modifier higher,
and in turn making things on astral level easier. For every two points
higer in physical world I'd give one bonuspoint on astral - up to a sum
of modifiers equal to willpower. Above that the character would take a
mental M-damage and lose all modifiers.
Example:
Shaman with willpower 4 takes enough Peyote to get 2/1 modifiers.
Spellcasting in astral plane would be one point easier, while running
away from mundane threads would get two points more difficult. The sum
of the modifiers is 3.
If he took more to get a better result he would get a 3/1 or even 4/2
modifier. 3/1 would be okay but gives no benefit, and 4/2 would be too
much: M damage.
(I would _not_ explain this rule to the player but let them find out
...)
A big hangover after using the drugs should be awarded ... and, of
course, flashbacks <EGMG>
I think these rules should not apply to hermetic magicians, but perhaps
it might be useful to allow mundane peolpe to use magic or astral
perception ... drug-induced temporarily astral perception syndrome
DITAPS - I like the idea, so I will keep the rules ...
Hope my 0.02 DM help you :)
--
Arno
*********************************************************************
Be careful when replying to this mail - check the address !!!
(And send me a note when you notice that
the reply-to-address points to the list!)
*********************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 17:12:04 +0200
Reply-To: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.net>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Bull-Bot [OT] was: Re: Two quick questions...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:27:00 -0400, Bull wrote:
>+++++ AUTO OFF TOPIC RANDOM GENERATOR v3.0 INITIATED
>+++++ TOPIC #410
>
>Do you know the Secret SR Handshake, and own the SR Secret Decoder Ring?
>
>+++++ END AUTO GREET
>
>Bull-the-welcome-Ork-Decker
Hey Bull, one could say that this was on-topic ... faults are getting
regular again, once more a repair might be necessary ... Spike, that
would be your job, wouldn't it?
One could even say that the last part of the sentence implied an
advertisement which would have to be paid ;p
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:58:00 +0200
Reply-To: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.net>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [Admin] Misc and FAQ Stuff
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:12:38 +0100, Spike wrote:
>I know someone who had Win95 on one, linus on another and I think OS2 on a
>third..... ^^^^^ really ???
Only really practicable if you use OS/2. The bootmanager shipped with
it is the only thing that makes a multi-OS computer usable IMO. Of
course having OS/2 is a good thing even without that bootmanager :) So
lets start an OS-war.
<yawn>I'll simply ignore it ...
--
Arno
*********************************************************************
Be careful when replying to this mail - check the address !!!
(And send me a note when you notice that
the reply-to-address points to the list!)
*********************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 20:01:00 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Bull-Bot [OT] was: Re: Two quick questions...
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 05:12 PM 7/25/97 +0200, Arno R. Lehmann wrote these timeless words:
>On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:27:00 -0400, Bull wrote:
>
>>+++++ AUTO OFF TOPIC RANDOM GENERATOR v3.0 INITIATED
>>+++++ TOPIC #410
>>
>>Do you know the Secret SR Handshake, and own the SR Secret Decoder Ring?
>>
>>+++++ END AUTO GREET
>>
>>Bull-the-welcome-Ork-Decker
>
>Hey Bull, one could say that this was on-topic ... faults are getting
>regular again, once more a repair might be necessary ... Spike, that
>would be your job, wouldn't it?
>
Heh... nahh.... This was silly enough to be OT... Trust me, if the die
hards would complain about the Tickle Me Dunky at Christmas, this would
REALLY throw them for a loop...:]
(BTW: Collectors say the Tickle-Me-Hestaby is now considered a collector's
item for some reason. It's become REALLY hard to find. Appaerntly, not
many were made... <shrug> )
>One could even say that the last part of the sentence implied an
>advertisement which would have to be paid ;p
>
Nope... only if I was selling something... If I _HAD_ SR SDR's (Secret
Decoder Rings), i'd give them out for free...;]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 20:01:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:51 PM 7/24/97 -0400, Sir Philos Nex wrote these timeless words:
>Greets everyone... my first post in this mailing list! :)
>
Well then... Welcome aboard, and it's time for the BOT to do it's thing...:]
+++++ BULL-BOT ACTIVATED
+++++ AUTO GREET INITIATED
Hello there, new list-member Philos! Welcome to the Shadowrn Mailing List!
It's a great place, with good people and great discussion! hope ya like mail!
+++++ AUTO OFF TOPIC RANDOM GENERATOR v3.0 INITIATED
+++++ TOPIC #720
Grover. You seek Grover. Powerful Muppet is he. Powerful Muppet.
+++++ END AUTO GREET
Bull-the-Welcome-Ork-Decker
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 19:01:24 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Joshua T Brown <spamquat@****.COM>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage
TopCat's Chromed Mage.....
><BIG snip>
>As this character gains in karma, he'll increase few things....
>1) Sorcery - for increased sorcery pool>
Huh?
><snip the rest of it, too, what the hell...>
Why exactly do you want to increase his magic pool? He already has more
than he knows what to do with.... The maximum number of dice that can be
allocated for magical tests is equal to the _Magic Rating_, not the force
of the spell or any other value IIRC. In this case it is 1. Kinda cuts
back on the neccessity for a high sorcery, doesn't it? And with 7 dice at
his command for Casting and Drain, instead of 12, he's not nearly as
beasty, or am I missing something?
==============================================================
The Kumquat -- Josh Brown -- Kumquat@*****.com -- Spamquat@****.com --
Shadowrun Page Still Under Development -- Coming Soon!
"Support Whirled Peas" -- <smirk> -- "Whatever, Man" --
"Woo Hoo!" --
....Don't hate me Because I'm... ahh, screw it, hate me. <smirk>
==============================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 19:12:57 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Joshua T Brown <spamquat@****.COM>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
>> True, but I believe this character was being created to illustrate
>what
>> *might* be possible under the new Geasa rules suggested for SR3
>(hence the
>> "was: [SR3] Geasa" bit...) in which Geasa would indeed allow someone
>to
>> retain their magic rating by taking Geasa. This is not a canonical
>thread.
>> Although my contribution works just fine canonically, his Chromium
>Mage was
>> made to illustrate what could be done under the proposed system.
>> --
Ahhh... Nevermind.... makes sense now.... though he's still pretty
bad-ass w/o all the extra dice to roll for spells... mebbe swap out the
sheathing... bam... powergamer's wet dream.
>Which I realized when I got to the top of my mailbox (I read threads
>in reverse alphabetical order)
>
Don't ya hate that? I made a similar mistake... luckily, we have poor
mailers to blame it all on....
==============================================================
The Kumquat -- Josh Brown -- Kumquat@*****.com -- Spamquat@****.com --
Shadowrun Page Still Under Development -- Coming Soon!
"Support Whirled Peas" -- <smirk> -- "Whatever, Man" --
"Woo Hoo!" --
....Don't hate me Because I'm... ahh, screw it, hate me. <smirk>
==============================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 02:55:31 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: [Admin] Misc and FAQ Stuff
In-Reply-To: <199707252335.XAA108258@****.ibm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:12:38 +0100, Spike wrote:
> So
>lets start an OS-war.
##### # # # # ## #####
# # # # # # # # #
# ###### # # # # # #
# # # # ## # ###### #####
# # # ## ## # # #
# # # # # # # #
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 10:58:58 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: [OT] AltMagick group
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Does anybody kno about the Alt Magick group, it as listed somehere hen I
> as surfing for more SR stuff so it might have been on one of you pages.
> feel free to respond via personal e-mail and thanks for the help :)
Having a bit of trouble with that 'W' key are you?
Ray.
-----------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, and whatever happens,|
| You will not be missed |
-----------------------------------------------------
EMAIL: macey@*******.com.au
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:34:12 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Bugs and Guns (a long time ago was: the uac dilemma)
On Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:06:08 -0500 TopCat <topcat@***.NET> writes:
>But that is neither here nor there... I've missed a great deal of this
>thread and I was wondering what this had to do with unarmed combat?
At this point, not a whole lot:) It started out on unarmed combat, got
over to bugs and ItNW, from there to bugs, firearms and ItNW, and now
just bugs and guns (sorta:) I guess that would be the 'drift' thing they
keep talking about, huh:)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:34:11 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 21:43:25 -0700 Michael Paff <mikepaff@***.COM>
writes:
>>Okay, here goes (I used rules _as_written_, not necessarily as
>intended,
>>and did not limit myself to the main book:)
>>
>> With geasa, Magic Rating is a full 6 (8) :)
>>
>Which 5 geasa did you plan for this character?
Well, I was figuring on Incantation and Gesture, Talisman (one of the
foci, most likely:) Domain (or Time, one or the other) and probably he
winds up with the Focus Geas from Awakenings (what with the various
foci:)
>>BIOWARE
>>---------
>>Cerebral Booster 1
>>Trauma Damper
>>
>An official ruling needs to be made as to how the Trauma Damper
>affects
>spellcasters (does it offset drain, is there any risk to Magic like
>stimpatches). Hopefully it will be addressed in SR3.
In the meantime, it's the single most useful piece of bioware for a
magician:):) With the possible exception of the Cerebral Booster (the
only thing on earth that boosts Astral Quickness:)
>>I don't know that the Chromium Mage there is all that munch
>(powerful,
>>but nearly crippled by the low physical attributes), but that's what
>I
>>came up with. I would have sprung for a Panther Cannon:) but I was on
>a
>>budget, and really wanted the foci:):)
>>
>On the subject of foci, with the variable Magic attribute that mages
>would have under the proposed change, which value is used to determine
>focus addiction?
Well, you could go the complicated route and rule that it's based on the
current one:) So that the moment he misses that 5th geas <EGMG>
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:34:12 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Bugs and Guns (a long time ago was: the uac dilemma)
On Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:43:30 -0400 Jonathan Hurley
<jhurley1@************.EDU> writes:
>> Yes, and on an average roll, the sammie wouldn't have hit the broad
>side
>> of a very large barn with that full auto burst (the sammie's TN
>would
>> have been at least 13, 12 or 11 with a laser sight or smartlink,
>> respectively).
>
<<Oh, I dunno. Example: Snapshot (a PC) honks off a nine-round burst at a
target. He's using an Ares Alpha combat gun(Two points recoil comp) with
a shock pad (another point.) He's got a strength of 7 (another 2 points
(FoF p83) for a grand reduction of 5, bringing his target number (at
close range, with his smartgun link) to 6. Not bad at all, all things
considered. If he was using a weapon with IGV4, he'd be looking at 4's
for a target number. Because of the way the Ares Alpha description is
worded, he could *add* the IGV4 to the weapon and get his TN down to 2.
(The weapon offers 2 points of recoil comp, *and* can take barrel mounted
accessories. Now I see why this weapon is so hard to get.)>>
Shh! I've got a player on this list:)
You might remember, however, that I didn't use an Ares Alpha (which, btw,
seems to be no harder to get than a AK-98, unless the figures I've got
are a bit screwed up (don't have FoF)). The AK doesn't come with any
recoil comp, doesn't come with any sighting stuff. It's a vanilla assault
rifle (if such a thing exists:) And I didn't use the Strength=>Recoil
rules from FoF (they're optional, after all:) So, I'd say my example
still stands:):) The fact is, your example is valid, just not what I was
talking about. So, even assuming an IGV4, Smartgun I, and Shock Pads on
the AK-98, you've got a Target Number of at least 6. Let's say partial
light and light smoke or fog (for visual effect and all:) and you're back
up to a 12. Remove the smoke, you've got an 8. Let's say buggy-boy is
running (+2) and that our friendly neighborhood chrome monster is also
walking, over difficult ground (ant hive, tunnels, low ceilings, rough
floors, etc:) and you're back at that 12. With a strenght of eight
there's another 2 points of recoil comp and you've got a ten, but let's
say the bug also has partial cover...etc, etc. How complicated do you
want to make it?
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 20:13:07 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Paff <mikepaff@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [GC] A Drive in the Country
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>I did preregister and I did get into A Drive in the Country. I got my
>>>prereg tickets yesterday and the interesting thing is that it lists Jill
>>>Lucas as the GM for this event.
>>>
>I'm in it as well now, so... gee... how many listmembers will be playing
>in that event?? :]
>
I'll be there! If it's like some tournament events we'll be able
to form our own teams (if anyone is interested).
>>>Anyway, I'm very excited. I got in to every game I signed up for, with
>>>only one (The Babylon Project) being shifted to a different time. It's
>>>going to be a busy 4 days!
>>
>Lucky you... Looks like I missed out on a couple games I signed up for...
>Drive in the Country was the only event I ended up with a ticket for...
>but I've got planty of Generic Tickets now...:]
>
I got lucky as well. I ended up with 6 of my 7 primary choices (4 are for
SR games), and one of my alternates. Not like two years ago when they lost
my pre-reg and all I was able to get was generics.
Mike Paff
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:18:05 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:54:27 -0600"
<33D8317A.F918580F@*********.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
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> OK what if he says he'll take a geasa of having to have something with
> him(can't think of the name) and he says the cybereyes are that thing?
> how about seeing, would this count as normal sight? would he be able to
> cast LOS spells at anything he sees? how about if he hat a transmiter
> that racieved a picture of somewhere else, could he cast a spell on
> that? It is a good system but still needs some work. :-)
Of course, cybereyes always still count as normal vision (paid for with
Essence, man, there a *part* of you).
What does the transmitted image have to do with this??
I'm not quite sure you're still on the same thread, here... or maybe you need
to clear some things up.
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:20:37 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Fri, 25 Jul 1997 13:06:58 +0300"
<Pine.SUN.3.96.970725125834.1930A-100000@********.csd.uch.gr>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
You wrote:
> c) What happens upon initiation ?
> MV=> Either gain a new Magic Point and keep the geas or lose the geas
> without droping in Magic rating. (Actualy abandon the geas, losing a point
> that is instantly regained free of geasa.)
Exactly.
> And what is that I hear about using geasa to counter cyberware?
> I thought geasa where used to counter magic loss due to wounds etc., not
> due to essence loss. Essence loss should remove Magic points permanently,
> without any options for keeping them (You are making yourself weaker and
> unable to hold his full potential of astral energy).
losses of Magic to anything are treated the same. You lose it to cyber, it's
the same as a loss to a deadly wound, et cetera. It's been that way since 1st
ed.
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 01:06:40 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>:
> Example: Talon tosses a manaball at a security mage, two corp guards and
an
> elemental the mage has hanging around in astral space. Talon can see the
mage
> and one guard. The other guard is up against the wall on the other side
of
> the open doorway. The elemental is hovering near the sec-mage in astral
form.
> Talon targets using his normal vision. He can see the mage and one guard
> unaided and targets his manaball in their midst. The elemental and the
other
> guard are within the radius of the spell, but they are not affected
because
> Talon cannot see them and therefor cannot form a magical link with them.
The
> mage and the corp guard make Spell Resistance Tests while the elemental
and
> the other guard are unaffected.
>>>>Question: why isn't the Elemental included? I understand your
reasoning,
but astral perception is used (albeit briefly) during spellcasting in order
to synch...er target all the beings in the area. Thus, during that time,
all the targets of the spell are established...wouldn't this include the
Elemental then?<<<<<
Because the moment of awareness of the astral plane is so brief and
sub-conscious as to be nearly unnoticable. It's not usable for assensing and,
therefore, useless for targeting. In the example above, Talon forms a magical
link with his potential targets using his physical vision. When he throws the
spell, his sense open to astral space for a microsecond as the spell energy
surges from him to his target(s). IMHO, he doesn't even have time to look
around and go "oh, look, an elemental."
I think part of the problem is the current example about "synchronizing
auras" in SR2 makes it sound like the caster uses astral perception, looks
around, carefully and methodically matches his aura to the target(s) and lets
fly when in fact (IMHO) the whole process happens in a single, almost
instinctive, action before the caster has a chance to be aware of anything on
the astral. A spellcaster hinks about synchronizing auras no more tthan a
trained martial artist thinks about making a block in the middle of a fight.
It just happens; trained reflex.
Steve K.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 01:06:43 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
Gurth <gurth@******.NL> wrote:
>With that last bit, do you mean that a) the geas-restricted Magic points
>get replaced by non-geas MPs, in other words that the geas gets removed
>from the MP but the magician gains no additional MP; or b) that the
>character gains an MP as normal but simply doesn't bother sticking to the
>geas for the "lost" MP? Hmm, this may need a "for instance"...
>
>For instance, Jeff the grade 0 initiate loses a magic point (somebody
>shot off his arm and he failed his magic loss check). He chooses a geas of
>gesturing for the lost MP, so if he gestures he has a Magic rating of 6,
>while if he doesn't, it's 5.
>Then he initiates to grade 1. If using method A, he'd have a Magic rating
>of 6 and no geas; with method B his Magic rating is 6 if he doesn't
>gesture, and 7 when he does.
>
>I'm in favor of allowing the player to choose which of the two (s)he
>wants.
As am I. I meant to say pretty much the same thing you said, only I think you
probably said it a little more clearly. Essentially speaking, under the
proposed system, Initiation has no real effect on geasa. It just increases
the Magic attribute. Whether or not the character chooses to permanently drop
the geased Magic point (thereby losing it) is actually a seperate choice. A
character who is initiating is simply getting new Magic points they can use
to replace geased ones if they choose to get rid of them.
That's a pretty long-winded way of saying, yes, that's how I see it working
too : )
Steve K.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 01:06:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM> wrote:
>Steve Kenson wrote:
>>2) A valid target is one which the caster: a) can
>>see or assense, unaided by technology and,
>Point of clarification, please: what about targets
>who are under the effects of invisibility, using
>stealth, a spirit's concealment power etc? The
>casting mage COULD see them if he rolls high
>enough on his perception roll, but what if he
>doesn't even bother to look? In other words,
>does the mage have to "see" them, or "notice"
>them?
In all of those cases I would have the gamemaster make a secret Perception
Test for the spellcaster against the target in question. If the caster makes
it, then he can see the target well enough to cast a spell at them (perhaps
with a TN penalty for the target still having some visual cover). If the
caster blows the Perception Test, then they can't see the target and the
target is not a valid one (even for an area spell).
Of course, if a magician has reason to suspect an invisible ormagically
concealed opponent, he can just switch to astral perception and zap them that
way.
Steve K.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 01:06:51 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK> writes:
>Steve Kenson <talonmail@***.com> writes:
>> This is how all area-effect combat spells (and other area-type spells like
>> Chaos) work. The only exception is Damaging Manipulations, which create a
>> real, physical medium the caster directs at the targets. The blast radius
of
>> a damaging manipulation affects all physical targets in the area of
effect,
>> whether the caster can see them or not.
>
>The one we could use here is LOS and damaging manipulations. Is the
>TN to hit the security guard behind the door in your example [i
>snipped] with a flamebomb (he being immune to anything but a DM)
>landed in the middle of the doorway betwwen Mr mage and guard 1 a 4
>'because you have a clear LOS on the doorway' or a 12 'becasue the
>target is invisible +8 for blind fire'?
The corp guard under full cover gets hit by the DM spell from the center of
the spell's blast radius, just as if it were a grenade, so he gets no TN
bonus for "cover" unless he has cover relative to the spell's "ground
zero"
(ie, a barrier between him and the blast). The caster wasn't necessarily
targeting the guard (since he didn't even know the guard was there) but the
DM affects everyone in the area, just like a normal explosion. If the caster
were throwing, say, Flame Volt, and knew there was someone hidden behind the
wall and wanted to shoot through the specifically wall at him, then he would
have to take the +8 "Blind Fire" modifier just like any other ranged
attacker.
>And clear up what the descriptions imply but the rules don't state
>that the elemental is immune to the flamebomb even if the mage
>casting it is astrally percepting because the spell is dual but
>explodes on the physical plane only 'because the magical flame must
>have a physical component'.
Correct. In fact, even if the spell were Powerball, the elemental would not
be affected. In my rough outline of the SR3 magic rules, a Physical spell
will not affect a target with no physical body, like a spirit in astral form.
So, yes, even if the caster were using astral perception, the flame bomb
wouldn't affect the elemental at all.
>Similarly that you cannot cast DM's while
>astrally projecting (as astral magicians have no armour thay are FAR
>too lethal were this to be allowed).
Again, correct. DMs are different from combat spells in that they ground at
the CASTER'S location, creating an elemental medium, which the caster then
magically projects as a normal Ranged Attack. Therefore, DMs require the
caster to be in his physical body in order to cast them, they cannot travel
through astral space alone.
>It might also be worth making
>the 'no projecting and sustaining spells' rule clearer.
Basically, as I see it, leaving and returning to your body are Exclusive
activities, so you cannot be Sustaining any spells, or performing any other
magical activities, on the Action when you astrally project or return to your
physical body. Both actions take a lot of concentration. Not only that but
(IMHO) you also cannot perform other Exclusive activities (casting Exclusive
spells or summoning spirits) while Astral Projecting since it is also a
"magical activity" and thererfor prevents the performance of Exclusive feats.
Astral Perception is a more passive activity, and so does not affect
Exclusive actions. You can cast a spell, then switch to astral perception
while sustaining it, but if you then want to astral project, you have to drop
the spell in order to do it.
>And while we
>are at it clear up the effect of initiate shielding and damaging
>manipulations, does it as i belive rasie the effective body but not
>the 'fixed' TN4 which is the same as spell defence, or does it plain
>rasie TN's in which case initiates with some shielding left are
>utterly immune to magic (unless the rule stating you need net
>successes to hurt peple with magic is revoked, which is a house rule
>i use).
Here I must disagree. Although DMs create an actual physical medium to damage
their targets, this matter or energy is still sustained and directed by magic
and, therefore, can be deflected by magical defenses (such as Spell Defense
and Shielding).
However, Shielding does not necessarily make an Initiate invulnerable to
magic. Sure, if an Initiate goes full-defensive and pours all of his Magic
Pool into Shielding, then he's going to be very hard to affect with spells,
but that's as it should be, IMHO. There are still several other factors:
1) DMs, unlike combat spells, must be reduced like normal combat damage. The
Spell Resistance Test for a DM is actually a Damage Resistance Test, so the
Initiate is going to NEED those extra dice if he wants to reduce the damage
of a Flame Bomb with 2-3 successes down to nothing.
2) I allow other Initiates to use Centering to offset the penalties of an
opponent's Shielding, focusing their power through the shield. I don't know
if this will find it's way into the rules, but, as I see it, Shielding
imposes a TN penalty, and Centering allows an Initiate to overcome TN
penalties, so...
3) Lastly, a magician up against a heavily shielding Initiate simply has to
be SMARTER. I'm reminded of the scene from Bob Charrette's second book
(CHOOSE YOUR ENEMIES CAREFULLY, I believe) where the evil Archdruid confronts
Hart and sneers how his shielding and anti-bullet barrier make him
invulnerable and Hart just says "whatever" and blows the floor out from under
him. He hits the dirt, stunned, dropping his spells and defenses, and she
shoots him dead. Flame bomb can't get through the guy's shielding? Bet it can
take down the roof above his head, then...
Whew, that's enough thinking for me at 1:00 AM. I'm outta here...
Steve K.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:14:18 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:01 PM 7/25/97 -0500, Joshua wrote:
>Why exactly do you want to increase his magic pool? He already has more
>than he knows what to do with.... The maximum number of dice that can be
>allocated for magical tests is equal to the _Magic Rating_, not the force
>of the spell or any other value IIRC. In this case it is 1. Kinda cuts
>back on the neccessity for a high sorcery, doesn't it? And with 7 dice at
>his command for Casting and Drain, instead of 12, he's not nearly as
>beasty, or am I missing something?
Drain can have as many dice thrown into it as one wishes...(pg. 85 SR2).
Whne this guy is casting force 12 spells, he'll need all the drain dice he
can find. Also, spell defense dice are very important. It adds to the
whole invincibility factor...
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 01:53:19 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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> From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
> Date: Saturday, July 26, 1997 1:06 AM
> Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK> writes:
> >Steve Kenson <talonmail@***.com> writes:
<Snippity snip snip>
> >And while we
> >are at it clear up the effect of initiate shielding and damaging
> >manipulations, does it as i belive rasie the effective body but not
> >the 'fixed' TN4 which is the same as spell defence, or does it plain
> >rasie TN's in which case initiates with some shielding left are
> >utterly immune to magic (unless the rule stating you need net
> >successes to hurt peple with magic is revoked, which is a house rule
> >i use).
> Here I must disagree. Although DMs create an actual physical medium to
damage
> their targets, this matter or energy is still sustained and directed by
magic
> and, therefore, can be deflected by magical defenses (such as Spell
Defense
> and Shielding).
Okay, I know this has been raised in the past, but I don't recall the
outcome. I am curious to know how people use Shielding and Combat Pool
dice in relation to DM spells. Allowing a mage to shield against a DM and
jump out of the way (thus using Combat Pool) would make it far too easy to
not get damaged by a DM. However, they both should apply somehow according
to the game mechanics.
One possible suggestion would be to now allow the Shielding to increase the
TN for casting the spell (thus, it would still remain a 4), but would
increase the dice rolled to resist the spell, as usual. Then, Combat Pool
dice could be used as normal. Is this too weird?
<More Snippage>
Well, I must say that I am VERY grateful for the clarifications you made in
this post, Steve. :) You really quantified a lot of thought I have on
some areas of magic and clarified a few points that I really thought needed
clarification. :) Not bad for 1am. Not bad for anytime. :)
> Whew, that's enough thinking for me at 1:00 AM. I'm outta here...
> Steve K.
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 01:54:39 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Bugs and Guns (a long time ago was: the uac dilemma)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:34 PM 7/25/97 EDT, you wrote:
>>But that is neither here nor there... I've missed a great deal of this
>>thread and I was wondering what this had to do with unarmed combat?
>At this point, not a whole lot:) It started out on unarmed combat, got
>over to bugs and ItNW, from there to bugs, firearms and ItNW, and now
>just bugs and guns (sorta:) I guess that would be the 'drift' thing they
>keep talking about, huh:)
And you all know that *I* would never do anything like drift in a topic... heh
Thanks for the clarification. I wish I wouldn't have thrown away all of the
uac stuff, I might've found something good to yammer on about in there... ah
well, there'll be other topics :)
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 18:04:57 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
In-Reply-To: <33D861FC.249463EE@*********.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> > ... or a baseball bat covered with insecticide... that's the only way we
> > lived through bug city.
>
> My players in a Bug City campaign coated themselves in DEET (a no
> bullshit bug repellant) during a hive attack. Had to give em the target
> # mods for that; I failed to consider the idea myself :/ Gotta watch
> them players, I swear! :)
I hope you killed them shortly afterwards from nerve damage. Spraying
bug spray on weapons is one thing - you can spray it so thick it's
dripping off the weapon. i wouldn't want to spray the stuff on myself,
though - it's a rather nasty nerve toxin.
I also wouldn't say that the sort of insect spray intended for spraying
on yourself would hurt the bugs much - that's an insect REPELLANT. What
you need to hurt them is an INSECTICIDE. Chemically different, stronger,
and NOT the sort of thing I want to spray on myself.
Lady Jestyr
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 14:54:40 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 24-Jul-97 wrote J. Keith Henry:
>Oh god I can see it now (actually, I've had a few players with character and
>these skills...hey Barbie, where's your Seduction Skill? A cat shaman I once
>knew would have considered you an amateur.
Oh God? what have you in mind?
An amateur maybe but I`m starting this kind of work lately.
Doing it mainly for just two years IC time.
Seduction, ops I forgot this one (shame on me) 20 :-)
And I get a -4 to all TN# against the opposite gender this plus my
rediculus high charisma rating does well enough.
In an live performance I had once an perfomence rating off over 1100.
>Actually, depends on your point of view...Victor considered Binder's
>Enchanting Skill to be high for -his game-, so I am certain that some/many
>will consider the above frighteningly high. Hell, for Binder-Uncensored, the
>above are pretty fair to outright excellent.
Thats true our powerlevel is in our old charactergroup fairly high.
Me going for 512 karma the rest between 450 and 300.
And we are six and up most of the time.
Most of them have some skill in the range of 12 to 20.
Mainly for their main field of activity but some are just for "hobby"
skills like painting dance or so.
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 10:11:59 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Kristling the Weird <kristlingweird@*********.COM>
Organization: Founder & Supreme Dictator for Life, Lightmoon Project
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lady Jestyr wrote:
>
> > > ... or a baseball bat covered with insecticide... that's the only way we
> > > lived through bug city.
> >
> > My players in a Bug City campaign coated themselves in DEET (a no
> > bullshit bug repellant) during a hive attack. Had to give em the target
> > # mods for that; I failed to consider the idea myself :/ Gotta watch
> > them players, I swear! :)
>
> I hope you killed them shortly afterwards from nerve damage. Spraying
> bug spray on weapons is one thing - you can spray it so thick it's
> dripping off the weapon. i wouldn't want to spray the stuff on myself,
> though - it's a rather nasty nerve toxin.
Okay. Sure. Then how come I don't die using modren bug repellents? The
active ingrident in them these days IS DEET! Maybe we should step back
from a sec... If it's pure DEET, then yah. If it's a commercial product,
no.
--So first I get the Corbalist Crystal....
Kristling The Weird
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/5482/
kristlingweird@*********.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 11:46:00 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> From: Kristling the Weird <kristlingweird@*********.COM>
> Date: Saturday, July 26, 1997 10:11 AM
> Lady Jestyr wrote:
> > I hope you killed them shortly afterwards from nerve damage. Spraying
> > bug spray on weapons is one thing - you can spray it so thick it's
> > dripping off the weapon. i wouldn't want to spray the stuff on myself,
> > though - it's a rather nasty nerve toxin.
> Okay. Sure. Then how come I don't die using modren bug repellents? The
> active ingrident in them these days IS DEET! Maybe we should step back
> from a sec... If it's pure DEET, then yah. If it's a commercial product,
> no.
My feeling has always been that Bugs are supposed to be hard to kill. Bugs
are supposed to be feared, even by veteran Shadowrunners. I think it's way
too easy to kill the Bugs if you treat them as having the Vulerability to
Insecticides as written in the rules. I would halve the effects of the
insecticide on them. Yes, they look a lot like giant bugs. However, they
are from another realm, thus it is easy to justify Insecticides not even
working on them at all.
But that's just an optional thing. Under the standard rules, it's easy to
kill them with insecticides.
> --So first I get the Corbalist Crystal....
> Kristling The Weird
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 12:55:33 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "David R. Lowe" <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 1:06 AM 7/26/97, Steve Kenson wrote:
<snip stuff about area affect spells>
OK, how bout this? Does glass stop LOS astrally. I know it doesn't affect
non-DM spells if the mage is targeting normally, but would it prevent a
target from being affected if the mage was using astral sight to target? We
have ruled that glass does block astral LOS, but I wonder if there are any
other opininons...
D.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 16:25:36 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Sat, 26 Jul 1997 12:55:33 -0700"
<v01540b00afffa4d43d10@[140.174.162.214]>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
You wrote:
> At 1:06 AM 7/26/97, Steve Kenson wrote:
> <snip stuff about area affect spells>
> OK, how bout this? Does glass stop LOS astrally. I know it doesn't affect
> non-DM spells if the mage is targeting normally, but would it prevent a
> target from being affected if the mage was using astral sight to target? We
> have ruled that glass does block astral LOS, but I wonder if there are any
> other opininons...
Can I ask why you ruled that it bolcks LOS on the astral? Glass is glass, it's
transparent, you see through it, I don't know why that should change on the
astral...
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 22:28:59 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <runefo@***.uio.no>
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Organization: The University of Oslo
Subject: Re: [SR3] Karma and Attributes
In-Reply-To: <199707081721.LAA20975@******>
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> [snip: x2 vs x1 for cost to increase Attributes]
> |
> | Still somewhat abuseable that way as well. My house rule (and
> | somebody else's on the list as well so it's got to be good B>]# ) is that
> | every increase in attributes after CharGen costs new attribute level
> | times the number of increase it is. Therefor the first increase is the
> | standard 1 times, the second is 2 times, the third is 3 times, etc. This
> | greatly discourages starting with lower stats and working your way up to
> | straight 6's. This was a problem in our games here until we added that
> | rule. Something like this would be great in SR3.
>
> Doh! I forgot about that one (suprise :) Question: do you apply the
> x2 multiplier when increasing stats beyond racial maximum in addition
> to the multiplier per increase? I.e., if a character started at 6,
> increased to 7, and now wants to increase to 8 does it cost (8 x2 x2)
> 32 karma?
I'm one of those other people that posted that house rule, and I do
not use it that way. (Adds a +2 multiplier when above racial stats,
that is, I don't.). Each attribute is pipped when it's
increased, and (pips*0.5+1)*next attribute value is the karma cost.
I use 0.5, david used 1. I suspect 1 is a bit harsh, but that's
me.
On another note: Increasing cybered, uncybered and magically
increased/boosted stats...
There's a discrepancy here.
Mr. Street samurai with muscle replacement 4 has to pay (say, 5+1) +
4 * 3 (basic rules) karma to increase his strength to 10. (30
karma.). A mage with Increase Strength spell locked just turns off
the lock, increases the attribute, and reactivates the lock. Pays 21
karma. What would happen if the sammie can deactivate the muscle
replacement? Also, the physad with boosted strenght compared to the
physad with (incr. attrib. strength) ?
It would be easier, and more balanced, IMHO, to let everyone increase
their attributes at a cost as if they were unaugmented and unaltered
from their natural value.
(Just thought of a new use of the 'decrease attribute' spell... :) )
Lastly, sorry if this has been discussed to death. I got back from
holidays with 2500 mails in the shadowrn folder... I kinda thought
for 1/5th of a second and deleted'em.).
--
Fade
And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 22:28:59 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <runefo@***.uio.no>
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Organization: The University of Oslo
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
In-Reply-To: <v01540b00afffa4d43d10@[140.174.162.214]>
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> OK, how bout this? Does glass stop LOS astrally. I know it doesn't affect
> non-DM spells if the mage is targeting normally, but would it prevent a
> target from being affected if the mage was using astral sight to target? We
> have ruled that glass does block astral LOS, but I wonder if there are any
> other opininons...
I seem to remember reading that since the basic nature of glass is
transparency (it's its intention, mood, whatever) it is transparent
in astral space too.
But if that was a player arguing with me, something in a rulebook, or
whatever, I do not remember. But it sounds ok - and I prefer astral
space to look and work as 'normal' as possible (while still allowing
for a lot of artistic freedom for the GM, of course.... did I say
artistic? I meant sadistic. :)
--
Fade
And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 16:58:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [Admin] Misc and FAQ Stuff
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Arno R. Lehmann once dared to write,
> :) So lets start an OS-war.
OK. I win! B>]#
><yawn>I'll simply ignore it ...
But I was about to do my victory dance. B>[#
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 14:46:22 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "David R. Lowe" <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 4:25 PM 7/26/97, Wendy Wanders, Subject 117 wrote:
>
>Can I ask why you ruled that it bolcks LOS on the astral? Glass is glass, it's
>transparent, you see through it, I don't know why that should change on the
>astral...
>
Ooops. Just reread the BBB. P 145 "transparent objects retain that quality..."
Still. I think it would be more interesting to judge that since glass is
just a big sheet of inaninimate matter, it act any other similar object on
the astral. Just to mess with the pc's pre-conceptions.
D.
I would've asked about grounding through glass, but the answer is obvious.
How else do you get "ground glass"?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 18:02:28 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Karma and Attributes
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: [SR3] Karma and Attributes
> Date: Saturday, July 26, 1997 6:28 PM
<Snip>
> On another note: Increasing cybered, uncybered and magically
> increased/boosted stats...
> There's a discrepancy here.
> Mr. Street samurai with muscle replacement 4 has to pay (say, 5+1) +
> 4 * 3 (basic rules) karma to increase his strength to 10. (30
> karma.). A mage with Increase Strength spell locked just turns off
> the lock, increases the attribute, and reactivates the lock. Pays 21
> karma. What would happen if the sammie can deactivate the muscle
> replacement? Also, the physad with boosted strenght compared to the
> physad with (incr. attrib. strength) ?
> It would be easier, and more balanced, IMHO, to let everyone increase
> their attributes at a cost as if they were unaugmented and unaltered
> from their natural value.
> (Just thought of a new use of the 'decrease attribute' spell... :) )
Which would get just as messy as the Increase Attribute spell....
I feel that since it's the sammies that tend to increase their attributes
the most, that it's fine by me if they get stuck paying more than mages
because a spell lock can be turned off. At least their cyber/bioware can't
be grounded through. It all has its ups and downs. I would also rule that
Physads can't turn of their increased attributes, either. Thus, they too
would get stuck paying the higher cost....which is also fine by me for the
same reason.
> Lastly, sorry if this has been discussed to death. I got back from
> holidays with 2500 mails in the shadowrn folder... I kinda thought
> for 1/5th of a second and deleted'em.).
Heh.
> --
> Fade
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 18:09:12 -0400
Reply-To: craigjwjr@*********.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Craig J Wilhelm Jr <craigjwjr@*********.NET>
Organization: Afterlife Incorperated
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
MIME-Version: 1.0
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David R. Lowe wrote:
> OK, how bout this? Does glass stop LOS astrally. I know it doesn't
> affect
> non-DM spells if the mage is targeting normally, but would it prevent
> a
> target from being affected if the mage was using astral sight to
> target? We
> have ruled that glass does block astral LOS, but I wonder if there are
> any
> other opininons...
The BBB is (sorta) specific about this. Actually it's downright
confusing at times, but humor me for a moment.
Quote, p. 145 BBB
"Inanimate objects are visible because of reflected light, and
block the passage of magical energy and emotions, two primary
elements of the astral form, or aura. Because such objects block the
flow of the aura, astral beings cannot assence through them. These
objects possess no aura or astral form of thier own, however, and
so astral beings can freely pass through the astral position
corresponding to the object's physical space. In astral space, one
cannotsee or assence through a wall, though it is a simple matter to
right through it. Transparent objects retain that quality, however."
--
Craig J Wilhelm Jr
Reality is nothing but a refuge for those who can't handle role-playing.
http://home.earthlink.net/~craigjwjr/
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Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 23:40:31 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
In-Reply-To: <33DA05AF.4F67@*********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In message <33DA05AF.4F67@*********.com>, Kristling the Weird
<kristlingweird@*********.COM> writes
>Okay. Sure. Then how come I don't die using modren bug repellents? The
>active ingrident in them these days IS DEET! Maybe we should step back
>from a sec... If it's pure DEET, then yah. If it's a commercial product,
>no.
DEET is a repellent. It makes the insect think "Yuck!" and fly away: it
doesn't kill them. (Hateful memories of Scottish forest midges during an
Army exercise... each of us was the centre of a seething globe of black
specks, all landing on our repellent-soaked skins and then taking off
again, usually but not always without biting... none of the bastard
things seemed to be dying, though)
Your typical really effective insecticide (rather than a pyrethoid like
domestic flyspray) is an organophosphorous derivative: basically, nerve
gas. Dieldrin, for instance, is almost as toxic to humans as it is to
insects.
--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 19:20:16 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
On Sat, 26 Jul 1997 12:55:33 -0700 "David R. Lowe" <dlowe@****.COM>
writes:
<<OK, how bout this? Does glass stop LOS astrally. I know it doesn't
affect non-DM spells if the mage is targeting normally, but would it
prevent a target from being affected if the mage was using astral sight
to target? We have ruled that glass does block astral LOS, but I wonder
if there are any other opininons...>>
Of course there are other opinions! There are _always_ other opinions:)
By current rules, I don't see why it should. If you have to 'synch' auras
with the target (in my mind, this represents a matching of 'astral
frequencies' between the spell and its intended target) and a mirror
provides valid LOS, I see no reason why glass wouldn't also. Glass
remains transparent, after all.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 19:20:16 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
On Sat, 26 Jul 1997 14:46:22 -0700 "David R. Lowe" <dlowe@****.COM>
writes:
<<Ooops. Just reread the BBB. P 145 "transparent objects retain that
quality...">>
It was my understanding that all objects on the astral plane retain all
characteristics of the physical existance except in that all non-living
objects not in their natural, non-processed state are intangible (but not
invisible). Glass remains transparent, mirrors reflect, magnifying lenses
magnify, etc and they behave this way in respect to both physical and
astral information (so you can see someone's aura through a window, in a
mirror, through binoculars, etc). But that's simply an extrapolation of
what's written in the book and isn't really supported or denied by the
rules as written.
<<Still. I think it would be more interesting to judge that since glass
is just a big sheet of inaninimate matter, it act any other similar
object on the astral. Just to mess with the pc's pre-conceptions.>>
Except that the astral plane (and magic in general for that matter), by
its very nature is determined and shaped by preconceptions. If you can
rationalize why a character *believes* that he cannot target through
glass, along mirrors, etc, well then...
Mwahahahaha!! :)
<<I would've asked about grounding through glass, but the answer is
obvious. How else do you get "ground glass"?>>
I'd thwap you for that, but I'm too lazy to dig out my auto-carp, so
consider yourself darn lucky:)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 14:31:57 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
In-Reply-To: <19970724.224141.18319.1.lobo1@****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 22:42 24/07/97 EDT, John E Pederson wrote:
>Okay, here goes (I used rules _as_written_, not necessarily as intended,
>and did not limit myself to the main book:)
>
>Name:
>Race: Human
>Adept: Hermetic Sorcerer
<<<snip>>>
>Magic 1 (3)
> With geasa, Magic Rating is a full 6 (8) :)
<<<snip>>
>Cerebral Booster 1
>Trauma Damper
I just love this bioware for magicians.
<<<snip>>>
>I don't know that the Chromium Mage there is all that munch (powerful,
>but nearly crippled by the low physical attributes), but that's what I
>came up with. I would have sprung for a Panther Cannon:) but I was on a
>budget, and really wanted the foci:):)
And now for the down side. All the following actions/abilities are rated
against a magician's magic rating and are only considered in that light.
I've listed those for which I believe the Chrome Wiz's geasa will not work
or are simply not relevant:
a. the Chrome Wiz's ability to banish spirits is very poor;
b. the Chrome Wiz's ability to command uncontrolled spirits is very poor;
c. ritual magic maximum sustaining time is frag all if the Chrome Wiz is
the team leader;
d. the astrally projecting Chrome Wiz's ability to pass astral barriers is
almost non-existent;
e. an initiated Chrome Wiz's Masking is pretty ineffective versus any other
initiate;
f. the Chrome Wiz's aura reading ability is poor;
g. astral quests are much more dangerous;
h. the Chrome Wiz's risk of foci addiction is serious if he ever uses the
foci without also using his geasa.
... and there are probably more.
So, there are still some solid limitations on the Chrome Wiz under the
proposed new geasa rules.
Chris
_______________________________________________________________
Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 14:47:16 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <199707251542.JAA15522@******>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:42 25/07/97 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:
>Refresh everyone's pools at the beginning of combat. From that point
>on the characters' pools refresh at the *end* of their action
>phases.
<<<snip>>>
Yep. I saw this the first time you posted but somehow I lost it. I've just
replied, privately, to Mark Steedman discussing the points he made in his
last post. As I said to Mark I feel this problem of the initiative loser
refreshing his combat pool to soon is a conundrum. Or - I thought it was
until I just discussed your suggestion with a friend. I like your idea.
A question, though I think you mentioned it in your first post. Do you have
this refreshing take place in all SR combat eg. ranged, DM spells, etc...
and do you have all pools refreshing this way eg. magic, control, hacking,
etc... ?
Chris
_______________________________________________________________
Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 14:31:28 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
In-Reply-To: <970726010645_-1475869339@*******.mail.aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:06 26/07/97 -0400, Steve Kenson wrote:
>>Point of clarification, please: what about targets
>>who are under the effects of invisibility, using
>>stealth, a spirit's concealment power etc? The
>>casting mage COULD see them if he rolls high
>>enough on his perception roll, but what if he
>>doesn't even bother to look? In other words,
>>does the mage have to "see" them, or "notice"
>>them?
>
>In all of those cases I would have the gamemaster make a secret Perception
>Test for the spellcaster against the target in question. If the caster makes
>it, then he can see the target well enough to cast a spell at them (perhaps
>with a TN penalty for the target still having some visual cover). If the
>caster blows the Perception Test, then they can't see the target and the
>target is not a valid one (even for an area spell).
All these concealment circumstances just add target penalties to perception
tests. How about simply adding these penalties to the magician's target
numbers?
Chris
_______________________________________________________________
Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 11:53:07 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Insecticides vs. repellents (was Re: the uac dilemma)
In-Reply-To: <33DA05AF.4F67@*********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Kristling the Weird said on 10:11/26 Jul 97...
> > I hope you killed them shortly afterwards from nerve damage. Spraying
> > bug spray on weapons is one thing - you can spray it so thick it's
> > dripping off the weapon. i wouldn't want to spray the stuff on myself,
> > though - it's a rather nasty nerve toxin.
> Okay. Sure. Then how come I don't die using modren bug repellents? The
> active ingrident in them these days IS DEET! Maybe we should step back
> from a sec... If it's pure DEET, then yah. If it's a commercial product,
> no.
I believe Lady J already said this, but an insect repellent (sp?) isn't
the same as an insecticide. A repellent makes them go away because they
don't like the stuff, while an insecticide kills them. Repellents may be
toxic as well, but they don't have to be; their primary function is making
sure insects stay away from where the stuff is sprayed.
Insecticides, pesticides, and all other -cides are bad for people, it just
depends on the dose you get. Spraying a bit of insecticide in your
room to kill a few mosquitos won't hurt you; spraying the whole can in an
enclosed room and sitting in the cloud for a day could be bad for your
health...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 08:38:48 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John Dukes <dukes@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Insecticides vs. repellents
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I wonder what the price of a can of bug repellant was during the height of
the Chicago infestation. I bet a tube of Off was worth its weight in gold. I
dont have the Bug City book, but just out of curiosity, does it list Chicago
prices for things like that?
John
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 10:09:01 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: [GC] Granite's game at Gen Con
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>Anyways, one of the tickets is for the S/R Drive in the Country
>tourney. I had been under the impression this was Granite's game,
>however the ticket lists Jill Lucas as GM.
Actually, I am one of 12 Judges for the first round..The number of
judges drops of for each round...But I hope to get the final round
as well..Those as the best of the best...
>I know Granite would be the best to ask on this, but I think he's gone
>for a few days ain't he?
I was and now I'm back.. :)
Actually I am suprised at the name on the ticket as well...I would
have thought it would have been Rich Osterhout...He is the one in
overall charge of the SR Tourney...
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 10:09:03 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: [GC] Battletech Center closed!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
I got a bit of insiders info...The Battle Tech center in Chicago will
be closed starting today..they are moving to a different
facility..and will be OUT OF ORDER!! until sometime after GenCon!!!
DREK!!! I was really looking forward to going again..they have the
new Alpha pods..they let you reroute coolant and power..FRAG!! Oh
well..I just thought I would pass this along...
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 10:09:04 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: [GC] Re: Gen Con, Guest list :) UPDATED 26JULY:1005L
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
>GRANITE, you still mantain this list?
Yup..Or at least I am trying to...
--------------------------------------------------------
Nice people going to GenCon:
FASAMike [If there are enough hours in the day]
GRANITE
Mike Broadwater
Bull
Fro (maybe)
Skye (yes... parents approval pending)
The Bookworm
Gossamer
Mike Paff
Caric
Court Schuett
Adam (another one or Fro?)
Nick Van
Droopy
Czar Eggbert
Paolo & Armanda (my gf)
Loki
NightLife
Onyx
Smilin' Ted
The Digital Mage aka Grant Erswell
Steve K.
--------------------------------------------------------
>Paolo & Armanda (my gf)
So will she be wearing one of those chain mail Bikinis??
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
>Does <sob>
>Does this mean, I'll be all alone??? <sob>
><SOB>
Well.. not completely.. and who is this Sob guy your talking to???
From: Skye Comstock <bilbo@****.NWLINK.COM>
>No Money, No Go. I'd drive my '7 there, but it'd take forever
>and I'd have to steal gas... ;)
Sad to hear it....
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 10:09:02 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: I'm Back..For now..
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Well that was a bit less painful than I thought it was a going to
be..I waded through the email for the last week or so..I really don't
like the Digest version..Too easy to miss stuff..And I finally got a
copy od Target:UCAS..I had to drive all the way to Texas to get
it..But it is mine now... :) Next trip is off the GenCon...
Now I have to try and figure out how to turn off the Digest see ya'll
later...
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 10:09:00 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Argh!!!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
>I hate you all!
But some of us had nothing to do with all of that....
>I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
>Argh!!!!!!!!!!
My condolances..But think of the bright side..now you'll be really
strong..huge and furry.....Your diet might change a little..but
you'll have fangs...of course..you'll need a new truck..that old one
will be too small now... :P
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 12:28:37 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
On Sun, 27 Jul 1997 14:31:57 +1000 Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
writes:
<<And now for the down side. All the following actions/abilities are
rated against a magician's magic rating and are only considered in that
light. I've listed those for which I believe the Chrome Wiz's geasa will
not work or are simply not relevant:
a. the Chrome Wiz's ability to banish spirits is very poor;>>
As it should be, since he's not actually a mage.
<<b. the Chrome Wiz's ability to command uncontrolled spirits is very
poor;>>
Again, he's not a mage, I'm sure he would be able to either of those,
anyway.
<<c. ritual magic maximum sustaining time is frag all if the Chrome Wiz
is the team leader;
d. the astrally projecting Chrome Wiz's ability to pass astral barriers
is almost non-existent;>>
He can't astrally project, he has astral perception, but astral
projection. And it's not like he'd be able to spend much time in the
astral even if he could project...
<<e. an initiated Chrome Wiz's Masking is pretty ineffective versus any
other initiate;>>
That's be the price you pay...
<<f. the Chrome Wiz's aura reading ability is poor;>>
Well, other than not having the Psychometry skill, where are you pulling
this one from?
<<g. astral quests are much more dangerous;>>
He can't astrally project.
<<h. the Chrome Wiz's risk of foci addiction is serious if he ever uses
the foci without also using his geasa.>>
Yes and no. He can't actually lose anymore magic, so the worst that could
happen is another geas (note: I would give this kind of character the
Focus geas on general principles:)
<<... and there are probably more.
So, there are still some solid limitations on the Chrome Wiz under the
proposed new geasa rules.>>
Of course there are, but two-thirds of what you suggest don't apply to
this character anyway: he can't astrally project, he can't summon
(normal) spirits, or banish them (IIRC, I don't have the book with me to
check, so I could very easily be wrong there...). And he doesn't have
Conjuring:)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 12:28:37 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Insecticides vs. repellents
On Sun, 27 Jul 1997 08:38:48 -0500 John Dukes <dukes@*******.NET> writes:
<<I wonder what the price of a can of bug repellant was during the height
of the Chicago infestation. I bet a tube of Off was worth its weight in
gold. I dont have the Bug City book, but just out of curiosity, does it
list Chicago prices for things like that?>>
Yes and no. It does have list indicating prices on lots of different
stuff, but neither bug repellant or insecticide are actually listed
(though they could fall under "Compounds") As for repellant: I doubt
that'd be too useful. My guess is that the bugs would just kill you and
leave you to rot instead of using you for the next generation of insect
spirits. . . Besides, I haven't seen a bug repellant that really works
100% and I'd expect the Invae to be a little less worried about it than a
normal bug would be...
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 13:52:18 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Adam J. Lyle" <wolfjack@****.BCL.NET>
Subject: Re: [GC] Re: Gen Con, Guest list :) UPDATED 26JULY:1005L
In-Reply-To: <19970727161235718.AAJ404@********.gj.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sun, 27 Jul 1997, GRANITE wrote:
> >GRANITE, you still mantain this list?
>
> Yup..Or at least I am trying to...
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Nice people going to GenCon:
>
>
<snippage of names>
Don't forget Bob Ooton, aka TopCat, and me, even though I am new to
this list and have posted just one reply. You can find Mike Broadwater,
Bob, and myself, along with various others, at the White Wolf booth
demoing games most of the time. We'll be covering everything from basic
Vampire: the Masquerade to Changeling 2nd Ed, incase any of you die hard
runners ant something different.
Adam
WolfJack
.
o .
Beware the woods at night. ooo o
Beware the Lunar light. . oo ooo
o oo .
- Type-O Negative ooo o
oo wWwWw ooo
wWwwwwwWw oo
wwwwwwwwwww
wwwwwwwwwwwww
wwww www
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 13:39:21 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: [GC] Gen Con, Guest list :) UPDATED 26JULY:1332L
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> > With the current additions Here are who is interested..
> > FASAMike [If there are enough hours in the day]
> > GRANITE
> > Mike Broadwater
> > Bull
> > Fro (maybe)
> > The Bookworm
> > Gossamer
> > Mike Paff
> > Caric
> > Court Schuett
> > Adam
> > Nick Van
> > Droopy
> > Czar Eggbert
> > Paolo & lady friend..
> >Loki
> >NightLife
> >Onyx
> >Smilin' Ted
> The Digital Mage aka Grant Erswell
> Steve K.
Bob Ooton aka TopCat,
Adam aka WolfJack
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 21:17:29 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Chargen
On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 05:08:02 -0500 John Dukes <dukes@*******.NET> writes:
[snip]
>Is it balanced if RunnerX is immune to narcoject toxin in exchange for a
>mild phobia of hearing a trains whistle? I guess that +1TN modifier
while
>hearing a train whistly is worth complete immunity to narcoject? At any
rate
>please show me I'm wrong. I would rather like to read the cleverly
hidden
>section on balancing magical talents.
Well that's just Edges/Flaws in general.... stuff like that happens in
just about ANY system that uses them. Which just so happens to be one of
the major reasons I don't like to use them... I as a GM don't like having
to check the ones the players may pile on, and don't want to become a
tyrant by saying which one's can and can't be used. It becomes a pain
when we use the same characters for mulitple GM's and we each have
different views about them. IMHO, the less of them the better.
~Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 21:59:58 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Adam J. Lyle" <wolfjack@****.BCL.NET>
Subject: Re: [GC] Gen Con, Guest list :) UPDATED 26JULY:1332L
Comments: To: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
In-Reply-To: <19970727194254171.AAA351@********.gj.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Thanks, I feel all special now. ;)
Adam Lyle (just incase there are two Adams here)
WolfJack
.
o .
Beware the woods at night. ooo o
Beware the Lunar light. . oo ooo
o oo .
- Type-O Negative ooo o
oo wWwWw ooo
wWwwwwwWw oo
wwwwwwwwwww
wwwwwwwwwwwww
wwww www
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 20:33:44 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Skye Comstock <bilbo@****.NWLINK.COM>
Subject: Re: [GC] Gen Con, Guest list :) UPDATED 26JULY:1332L
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9707272109.A11253-0100000@****.bcl.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Thanks, I feel all special now. ;)
>
>Adam Lyle (just incase there are two Adams here)
>WolfJack
There are a lot of Adams here... The list co-admin (who I fear may
haome kind of breakdown due to all of the Adams...), Adam Wise, and
one or two others with Adam as a first or last name... Adam and a
J somewhere because pretty damned popular. ;)
-Skye
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 23:47:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ian White <dernhelm@*****.COM.AU>
Subject: help
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Help me please????????????
I've newly joined the list and changed to the digest version, but have
decided that I prefer individual postings.
My problem is I don't know how to change back.
could someone please help me???
Dernhelm
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 00:14:10 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: [SR3] Astral Perception and Adepts
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Sorry I've been busy elsewhere but here I am with another of those
fun topics to argue about. Passing over Edges and Flaws (being that they
are optional) and the PhysAd power, can any adept astrally perceive. What
has gone before in the rules suggests this on some level for the
spellcasting wizzies but not how much can perceive. Could this get better
fleshed out by what that means. And a few spells seem to compensate for
no astral perception but not quite fully. I think it would be useful to
do so.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 21:14:01 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: help
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---Ian White wrote:
>
> Help me please????????????
> I've newly joined the list and changed to the digest version, but
have
> decided that I prefer individual postings.
> My problem is I don't know how to change back.
> could someone please help me???
Adam has copies of the FAQ are at:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/6112/lists.html
Quoting part 1 of the FAQ:
SET listname DIGEST:
When this option is set, instead of all of the
postings being delivered separately, they will be
delivered in one mailing at the close of the day (in
Listserv's timezone). This is helpful if the number
of mailings become a burden.
SET listname MAIL (default):
This option is invoked to restore active status
after sending a NOMAIL request, and is also used to
change from DIGEST back to getting all postings
separately.
Hope that helps, and I'd advise grabbing and saving all parts of the
FAQ (not to mention Adam sent copies of them out just a few days ago).
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 00:27:28 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ian White <dernhelm@*****.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: help
In-Reply-To: <tcppop3.382647@***.hydra.com.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Thank you for the fast respones to my need for help, it is greatly
appreciated. :)
once again thank you.
Dernhelm
Caught and trapped like a fox in the forest
Or a murderer in prison.
Yet what crime had I committed?
To be human in this world?
-excerpt from "Your favourite Drama"
by E. A. Bockman
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 00:50:48 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Astral Perception and Adepts
On Mon, 28 Jul 1997 00:14:10 -0400 MC23 <mc23@**********.COM> writes:
<<Sorry I've been busy elsewhere but here I am with another of those fun
topics to argue about.>>
Oh, boy! Something to bring up the list traffic (since it's been a slow
weekend:)
<<Passing over Edges and Flaws (being that they are optional) and the
PhysAd power, can any adept astrally perceive.>>
Only Astral Adepts, Elementalists, Shamanic Adepts (there's _got_ to be a
better name for them), and Physads (who don't necessarily) have full
access to astral perception.
<<What has gone before in the rules suggests this on some level for the
spellcasting wizzies but not how much can perceive.>>
It is implied that Sorcerors have a *limited* form of astral perception,
which may, in fact, be no more than the limited astral sense that *all*
magically active characters probably possess (as implied by the story
"All Dressed Up and No Place to Go", Awakenings, p25). In any case, any
astral perception that a sorceror might possess is only enough to synch
auras (might have a side-effect of providing heightened emotional
awareness, both of a given subject and of the surrounding area), and has
little or no use outside of that. Whether any other adept has such an
ability has yet to be seen:)
<<Could this get better fleshed out by what that means. And a few spells
seem to compensate for no astral perception but not quite fully. I think
it would be useful to do so.>>
To which spells are you referring?
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 01:35:20 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Gel rounds and knockdown rules
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Could someone please fill me in on the appropriate modifiers for
knockdown/back power levels for gel rounds? The BBB makes reference to a
nonexistant section within itself that is supposed to give the details on
this. :)
Thanks!
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 01:52:14 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ian White <dernhelm@*****.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Gel rounds and knockdown rules
In-Reply-To: <tcppop3.382675@***.hydra.com.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 15:39 27/07/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Could someone please fill me in on the appropriate modifiers for
>knockdown/back power levels for gel rounds? The BBB makes reference to a
>nonexistant section within itself that is supposed to give the details on
>this. :)
>
>Thanks!
>
>Justin :)
See page 91 of the Shadowrun rule book, down on the bottom right there is a
paragraph titled 'stopping and Nockdown".
in it you'll find the rules for gel rounds are: "gel rounds have a base
target number equal to their power"
dernhelm
Caught and trapped like a fox in the forest
Or a murderer in prison.
Yet what crime had I committed?
To be human in this world?
-excerpt from "Your favourite Drama"
by E. A. Bockman
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:26:10 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bruce <gyro@********.CO.ZA>
Subject: Physical Mages (was Re: Physad Enhanced Centering)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 05:26 PM 24-07-97 -0400, you (J. Keith) wrote:
>>
>> Except that a physad can't enchant, and can't use most magical skills
>> except for mundane effects (which is to say, in the same way(s) a mundane
>> could use them).
>>
>>
>True, but a Physical Mage can, and these rules apply to them as well. Also,
>a Physical Adept -CAN- enchant, even a mundane can make fetishes. As such,
>the skills could go in that direction as well.
>-Keith
I'd like someone to check me here please.
The phenomenon of physical magicians is supposed to be unproven and a little
unbelieved according to the source material, right? I dont have the paper
work so I 'll leave the page quotes to the gurus. Just how many GM's are
allowing their players to play this IMHO marginal and unnesassary (sp?
oooooh!) archetype?
It smacks of "best of both worlding"
Thanks
BRUCE
Arcanum Majoris - Big Magic! :)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:08:03 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <dhinkley@****host.efn.org>
From: David Hinkley <dhinkley@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: Playing Multiple Charactrs (was Re: question)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970721044617.2ec78378@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
On 21 Jul 97 at 4:44, Bull wrote:
> At 03:26 AM 7/20/97 -0600, Caun Haskins wrote these timeless words:
>
> >Here's a question I want to through out, Do you PCs play multiple
> >characters? or just one? I was in a small group once and each person
> >played at leas 2 sometimes up to 6 players, I think It got confusing
> >real quick. What do you guys think and or do?
> >
> Well... I've never done it with Shadowrun, though I would let (if we were
> ever short of players) my guys play up to 2 characters, max... Of course,
> I _LIKE_ a small group (my ideal group is 4, one from each major group).
>
> Of course, I never really have a shortage of players. I have too many,
> ocaasionally... Of course, if we're talking GOOD players... that's
> another subject. I have maybe 2 or 3...;]
The group I currently game with is rather small (2-3 plus GM), to
have enough PCs to make some runs possible we each play two
characters, basicly a primary and a secondary. If the gaming group is
larger at any particular session (new player, visting friends from
far away etc.) only the primary is run. Addtionally the secondary
characters are used in support type roles (get away car driver,
research decker, look out) and is never teamed with the same players
primary. It is not a great solution (there is the ever present "group
mind" problem) but it works.
David Hinkley
dhinkley@***.org
====================================================
Those who are too intelligent to engage in politics
are punished by being governed by those who are not
--Plato
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 12:34:50 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Gel rounds and knockdown rules
In-Reply-To: <199707280537.BAA15017@****.provide.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Justin Pinnow said on 1:35/28 Jul 97...
> Could someone please fill me in on the appropriate modifiers for
> knockdown/back power levels for gel rounds? The BBB makes reference to a
> nonexistant section within itself that is supposed to give the details on
> this. :)
That reference should read "earlier in this section," or better "on page
91." Normal rounds use half their Power as the TN for the knockdown test,
but to resist knockdown from gel rounds the full Power Level is used.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 12:34:49 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: [GC] Gen Con, Guest list :) UPDATED 26JULY:1332L
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9707272109.A11253-0100000@****.bcl.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Adam J. Lyle said on 21:59/27 Jul 97...
> Adam Lyle (just incase there are two Adams here)
There are, and the J in your name makes it especially confusing, seeing
how Adam J (who should change his name back to Fro, it would make it
easier for all involved :) is Assistant Fearless Leader...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 08:57:52 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Astral Perception and Adepts
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Mon, 28 Jul 1997 00:14:10 -0400"
<199707280414.AAA04196@*********.mindspring.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
You wrote:
> Sorry I've been busy elsewhere but here I am with another of those
> fun topics to argue about. Passing over Edges and Flaws (being that they
> are optional) and the PhysAd power, can any adept astrally perceive. What
> has gone before in the rules suggests this on some level for the
> spellcasting wizzies but not how much can perceive. Could this get better
> fleshed out by what that means. And a few spells seem to compensate for
> no astral perception but not quite fully. I think it would be useful to
> do so.
I think Elemental Adepts and Shamanic Adepts are the only ones with full astral
perception/projection abilities (well, and the Astral Adept, of course).
Generally adepts are banned from both assensing and projecting.
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:17:07 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jackson, Hank" <Hank.Jackson@*********.COM>
Subject: Rhenium polymers
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----
=_NextPart_001_01BC9B37.067DB720"
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this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
------ =_NextPart_001_01BC9B37.067DB720
Content-Type: text/plain
Hello all,
I thought of an unusual use for Rhenium polymers. If they were coated
on cybereyes, they would eliminate the need for corneal filters. Some
of the NPC's described in Prime Runners have their cybereyes listed as a
distingiushing feature. Colorchanging cybereyes would help those for
whom disguise to a common occurance. There are a few problems with
coated cybereyes:
1. Can the polymers withstand the bodily fluids in and around the eye
without degradation of the polymer fibers? Most polymers are fairly
stable in my experience, though I do not know the properties of these
particular polmers.
2. Will the low voltage current required to change the color of the
fibers interfere with the functioning of the cybereye? This is one
that I have no idea about.
3. Are the polymers dangerous to the body? Will the chemical change
initiated by the voltage harm the eye cavity or the body as a whole? If
the polymers were inert, it would be no different than an uncoated
cybereye.
This may require a ruling from the GM for individual games, which may
not have much relation to reality (reality, what's that?).
Can anyone give me more info about this very useful piece of equipment?
Galen
------ =_NextPart_001_01BC9B37.067DB720
Content-Type: text/html
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; =
charset=us-ascii">
<META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version =
5.0.1457.3">
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<BODY>
<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Hello all,</FONT>
<BR>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">I thought of an unusual use
for =
Rhenium polymers. If they were coated on cybereyes, they would =
eliminate the need for corneal filters. Some of the NPC's =
described in Prime Runners have their cybereyes listed as a =
distingiushing feature. Colorchanging cybereyes would help those =
for whom disguise to a common occurance. There are a few =
problems with coated cybereyes:</FONT></P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">1. Can the polymers withstand
the =
bodily fluids in and around the eye without degradation of the polymer =
fibers? Most polymers are fairly stable in my experience, though =
I do not know the properties of these particular polmers.</FONT></P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">2. Will the low voltage
current =
required to change the color of the fibers interfere with the =
functioning of the cybereye? This is one that I have no =
idea about.</FONT></P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">3. Are the polymers dangerous
to the =
body? Will the chemical change initiated by the voltage harm the =
eye cavity or the body as a whole? If the polymers were inert, it =
would be no different than an uncoated cybereye.</FONT></P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">This may require a ruling
from the GM =
for individual games, which may not have much relation to reality =
(reality, what's that?).</FONT></P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Can anyone give me more info
about =
this very useful piece of equipment?</FONT>
<BR>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Galen</FONT>
</P>
</BODY>
</HTML>
------ =_NextPart_001_01BC9B37.067DB720--
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:27:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Astral Perception and Adepts
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Canthros once dared to write,
>Oh, boy! Something to bring up the list traffic (since it's been a slow
>weekend:)
Everybody's got to have a talent.
>Only Astral Adepts, Elementalists, Shamanic Adepts (there's _got_ to be a
>better name for them), and Physads (who don't necessarily) have full
>access to astral perception.
That's what I get for posting just before passing out. What I was
roundaboutly trying to get to was sorcerer adepts (and anything else that
should be considered).
>It is implied that Sorcerers have a *limited* form of astral perception,
>which may, in fact, be no more than the limited astral sense that *all*
>magically active characters probably possess (as implied by the story
>"All Dressed Up and No Place to Go", Awakenings, p25). In any case, any
>astral perception that a sorcerer might possess is only enough to synch
>auras (might have a side-effect of providing heightened emotional
>awareness, both of a given subject and of the surrounding area), and has
>little or no use outside of that. Whether any other adept has such an
>ability has yet to be seen:)
That is exactly what I was trying to hit upon. It is implied but not
defined so to speak.
><<Could this get better fleshed out by what that means. And a few spells
>seem to compensate for no astral perception but not quite fully. I think
>it would be useful to do so.>>
>
>
>To which spells are you referring?
Analyze Magic (Grimoire)
Detect Magic (Grimoire)
Astral Sense (Awakenings)
My burnt out sorcerer adept makes use of these to compensate for not
having Astral Perception. They don't do everything but they give some
astral perception to him.
Earthdawn covers some of the differences in the levels of astral
perception (Magic: a Manual of Mystic Secrets) and Shadowrun could use a
little of the same treatment for the Sorcerer Adepts and Physical
Magicians.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 08:48:22 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gossamer <kajohnson@*******.TEC.WI.US>
Subject: Re: Rhenium polymers
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: Jackson, Hank <Hank.Jackson@*********.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Rhenium polymers
> Date: Monday, July 28, 1997 8:17 AM
>
I'm absolutely sure that there was probably more to this message, and I'd like
to respond point by point:
Point 1)
Point 2)
Point 3)
and finally...
Point 4)
Cheers
Gossamer
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:52:08 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Rhenium polymers
I disagree on point 3....
-Bandit
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:08:00 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Physical Mages (was Re: Physad Enhanced Centering)
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:26:10 +0200"
<1.5.4.32.19970728072610.0068ccac@********.co.za>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
You wrote:
> I'd like someone to check me here please.
> The phenomenon of physical magicians is supposed to be unproven and a little
> unbelieved according to the source material, right? I dont have the paper
> work so I 'll leave the page quotes to the gurus. Just how many GM's are
> allowing their players to play this IMHO marginal and unnecessary archetype?
Was the physad 'necessary' in the first place? Not in my opinion. It was a
way to be a magical samurai when first introduced. I think the physical
magician could be a very interesting character type, and isn't as subject to
munching as people may think.
> It smacks of "best of both worlding"
Yeah, but they're nowhere as good as either, they're middleground. And it
makes perfect sense to me that one could pursue both spellcasting/conjuring and
physadept powers in study. It's no different than the burned-out mages that
end up being basically samurai/mages.
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 08:30:51 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <199707270503.XAA26358@******> from "Chris Maxfield" at Jul
27,
97 02:47:16 pm
Content-Type: text
Chris Maxfield wrote:
|
| At 09:42 25/07/97 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:
| >Refresh everyone's pools at the beginning of combat. From that point
| >on the characters' pools refresh at the *end* of their action
| >phases.
| <<<snip>>>
|
| Yep. I saw this the first time you posted but somehow I lost it. I've just
| replied, privately, to Mark Steedman discussing the points he made in his
| last post. As I said to Mark I feel this problem of the initiative loser
| refreshing his combat pool to soon is a conundrum. Or - I thought it was
| until I just discussed your suggestion with a friend. I like your idea.
Well, that's one :)
| A question, though I think you mentioned it in your first post. Do you have
| this refreshing take place in all SR combat eg. ranged, DM spells, etc...
| and do you have all pools refreshing this way eg. magic, control, hacking,
| etc... ?
I would suggest applying it to all pools.
BTW, this is an idea in the playtest stage. Send the PCs to a
paintball competition and try it out under non-lethal conditions
before you use it for real.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:45:47 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Physad Enhanced Centering)
On Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:26:10 +0200 Bruce <gyro@********.CO.ZA> writes:
>I'd like someone to check me here please.
<shrug> Okay. Check! :)
<<The phenomenon of physical magicians is supposed to be unproven and a
little unbelieved according to the source material, right?>>
True enough.
<<I dont have the paper work so I 'll leave the page quotes to the gurus.
Just how many GM's are allowing their players to play this IMHO marginal
and unnesassary (sp? oooooh!) archetype?>>
Well, I certainly do, but you should see the other stuff I'll let my
players have, if they ask for it:) The honest truth is that a Phys. Mage
*isn't* that powerful. He's versatile, he's rare, but he's not a combat
monster, not automatically. The Physical Mage is really pretty well
balanced. "Jack of all trades, Master of none", you know.
>It smacks of "best of both worlding"
Maybe so, but they remain pretty well balanced and can be used to create
some really interesting characters (one I toyed with was a rocker),
because you can do stuff with them that's not possible with any other
type of character. Conversely, they'll never be able to astrally project,
they'll never be able to go on an astral quest (on their own), etc, etc.
> Arcanum Majoris - Big Magic! :)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:45:47 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Rhenium polymers
On Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:17:07 -0400 "Jackson, Hank"
<Hank.Jackson@*********.COM> writes:
>This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not
>understand
>this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
Galen, you're sending out MIME. Please fix your mailer so it isn't. It'll
save you having to listen to Spike scream and yell:) Besides, I don't
think everyone's mailer is MIME-compatible (or MIME-ignorant, like mine:)
>Hello all,
>
>I thought of an unusual use for Rhenium polymers. If they were coated
>on cybereyes, they would eliminate the need for corneal filters. Some
>of the NPC's described in Prime Runners have their cybereyes listed as
>a
>distingiushing feature. Colorchanging cybereyes would help those for
>whom disguise to a common occurance. There are a few problems with
>coated cybereyes:
An interesting idea (btw, they're Ruthenium fibers, not Rhenium:)
>1. Can the polymers withstand the bodily fluids in and around the eye
>without degradation of the polymer fibers? Most polymers are fairly
>stable in my experience, though I do not know the properties of these
>particular polmers.
Would it matter? You simply put them in the 'iris' in the cybereyes and
they never come in contact with a person's bodily fluids (or when they do
you'll be needing new cybereyes, anyway)
>2. Will the low voltage current required to change the color of the
>fibers interfere with the functioning of the cybereye? This is one
>that I have no idea about.
It could, but I don't think it would. Not unless (small) magnetic fields
and low voltage current on/in a person's body (ala the battery pack for
that cyberradio) would already interfere with their operation.
>3. Are the polymers dangerous to the body? Will the chemical change
>initiated by the voltage harm the eye cavity or the body as a whole?
>If
>the polymers were inert, it would be no different than an uncoated
>cybereye.
As I said, it would be easier to enclose the polymers witin the cybereye,
where they'd be protected from the elements and the body.
>This may require a ruling from the GM for individual games, which may
>not have much relation to reality (reality, what's that?).
>
>Can anyone give me more info about this very useful piece of
>equipment?
I hope I helped, at least a little bit. Do we have a chemist on the list,
somewhere?
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:51:28 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Robert G. Brook" <rgb1@**.MSSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Area Spells
In-Reply-To: <s3d87de1.024@********.dragonsys.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Fri, 25 Jul 1997, Mike Elkins wrote:
> Steve Kenson wrote:
> >2) A valid target is one which the caster: a) can
> >see or assense, unaided by technology and,
>
> Point of clarification, please: what about targets
> who are under the effects of invisibility, using
> stealth, a spirit's concealment power etc? The
> casting mage COULD see them if he rolls high
> enough on his perception roll, but what if he
> doesn't even bother to look? In other words,
> does the mage have to "see" them, or "notice"
> them?
>
> Double-Domed Mike
>
I believe Steve was intending to require the mage to percieve the target.
This would imply that the mage would have to "notice" the target.
Furthermore, Steve stated that the mage had to share a state (physical or
astral) with the target. This would only allow a mage using normal sight
to target any physical targets he percieves. Similarly, an astrally
projecting mage would only be able to target any astral targets he
percieves. Finally, an astrally perceiving mage would be able to target
both physical and astral targets but would be subject to a +2 TN
(associated with the attempt to make a physical action while astrally
perceiving) when targeting physical targets.
NOTE: The above is my understanding of Steve's ideas. If this
interpretation is in any way incorrect, please correct me, Steve.
Thanks.
-Glenn Brook
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:54:55 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
David Lowe wrote:
>Ooops. Just reread the BBB. P 145
> "transparent objects retain that quality..."
Yes, thats in the rules. However, having glass be
opaque in the astral makes things so much more
consistent that I use it as a house rule. I suggest
(without much hope) that Steve considers it for
SR3 as well. After all, what wavelength of light
does astral space use to determine if something
is transparent? Do you allow astral
microscopes? Things just get silly.
Double-Domed Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:58:01 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells -Reply
Fade wrote:
>I seem to remember reading that since the
>basic nature of glass is transparency (it's its
>intention, mood, whatever) it is transparent in
>astral space too.
Yes, that's the rules. However, ordinary glass is
opaque to infrared, but quartz glass is
transparent. To X-Rays, wood is transparent.
To Neutrinos, the earth is transparent (Ok, that
last one is unfair, neutrinos aren't photons).
IMHO, machine produced glass doesn't have any
intentions at all.
Double-Domed Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:09:02 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
Replying to Steve Kenson's clarifications:
This brings up an interesting question: if I cast
invisibility, and only get one success, am I
invisible, or just a little blury at the edges? What
TN modifier is the boundary between visible but
hard to target and requires a perception test? If
a character is not spending actions perceiving,
he doesn't make perception tests, (including the
GM makeing hidden, subconscious ones on his
behalf), which makes the issue a bit tricky, I'd
say.
Double-Domed Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:19:56 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
>Dieldrin, for instance, is almost as toxic to
>humans as it is to insects.
There are insecticides that are completely
non-toxic to mammals, but they do that by being
specific to things like preventing the pupae stage
of developement..., not fast acting, and wont
harm an adult bug. Not the most useful stuff for
a bug hunt, but spraying it around the cocoon
room would force them to move out and build a
new hive (IMHO).
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 00:50:41 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
In-Reply-To: <19970727.122712.18311.0.lobo1@****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:28 27/07/97 EDT, John E Pederson wrote:
<<a. the Chrome Wiz's ability to banish spirits is very poor;>>
>As it should be, since he's not actually a mage.
Oops. Just reread the fragment I still have of the original Chromium Mage
post. Somehow, I completely missed the fact that he is a Sorcerous Adept.
><<b. the Chrome Wiz's ability to command uncontrolled spirits is very
>poor;>>
>Again, he's not a mage, I'm sure he would be able to either of those,
>anyway.
<Blush>. What I was referring to here was the Control contest where the
spirit is opposing by rolling its force versus the magician's Magic Rating.
Could get nasty for low Magic Ratings. But, not an issue for Sorcerous Adepts.
><<c. ritual magic maximum sustaining time is frag all if the Chrome Wiz
>is the team leader;
>d. the astrally projecting Chrome Wiz's ability to pass astral barriers
>is almost non-existent;>>
>He can't astrally project, he has astral perception, but astral
>projection. And it's not like he'd be able to spend much time in the
>astral even if he could project...
<Double blush>. Does he have astral perception? (Wishing he still had the
original post.)
><<e. an initiated Chrome Wiz's Masking is pretty ineffective versus any
>other initiate;>>
>That's be the price you pay...
Thank god. That one got through.
><<f. the Chrome Wiz's aura reading ability is poor;>>
>Well, other than not having the Psychometry skill, where are you pulling
>this one from?
Well, this doesn't necessarily apply to Sorcerous Adepts (unless they have
astral perception). I also should have used the word 'reduced' rather than
'poor'. I'm referring to the Aura Reading section on page 90 in the
Grimiore. There it describes how a magician may make multiple attempts to
read an aura but the target number increases by +2 each time. He may not
make anymore attempts once the target number exceeds his Magic Rating. This
will, almost certainly, occur immediately after the Chrome Wiz's first
attempt. Also, an Initiated Spell Wiz will have a tough time penetrating
the Masking of other initiates. Once again, this only applies to Chromium
Mages who have (somehow) gained perception <blush>.
><<g. astral quests are much more dangerous;>>
>He can't astrally project.
Certainly not through his own power. But there are ways, such as the Free
Spirit's gateway power, to bring any character into an astral quest. If he
ends up in the place of magic he may be in serious trouble.
><<h. the Chrome Wiz's risk of foci addiction is serious if he ever uses
>the foci without also using his geasa.>>
>Yes and no. He can't actually lose anymore magic, so the worst that could
>happen is another geas (note: I would give this kind of character the
>Focus geas on general principles:)
Absolutely agree.
>Of course there are, but two-thirds of what you suggest don't apply to
>this character anyway: he can't astrally project, he can't summon
>(normal) spirits, or banish them (IIRC, I don't have the book with me to
>check, so I could very easily be wrong there...). And he doesn't have
>Conjuring:)
<blush> <double blush> Quietly tucks the old Magic Ratings list away. OK.
The disadvantages suffered by the Chrome Wiz for his low Magic Rating are
much reduced compared to a full magician. But what is left leaves
interestin' hooks for a GM to play with. ;-)
Chris
_______________________________________________________________
Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:05:45 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Area Spells
Here's another "thought experiment":
A magician casts a physical area-of-effect spell
at a point in the middle of a wheat field. Does it
only effect the wheat stalks towards the front that
he can see well, does it effect a nice neat circle
in the crop, or does it effect a few dozen or so
stalks that happen to be the ones his mind
"noticed"? Substitute a crowd in a passing
subway car if you think a field of wheat is too
boring...
Double-Domed Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:37:45 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells -Reply
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:58:01 -0500"
<s3dc7b06.087@********.dragonsys.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
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You wrote:
> Fade wrote:
> >I seem to remember reading that since the
> >basic nature of glass is transparency (it's its
> >intention, mood, whatever) it is transparent in
> >astral space too.
> Yes, that's the rules. However, ordinary glass is
> opaque to infrared, but quartz glass is
> transparent. To X-Rays, wood is transparent.
> To Neutrinos, the earth is transparent (Ok, that
> last one is unfair, neutrinos aren't photons).
> IMHO, machine produced glass doesn't have any
> intentions at all.
By this argument, why isn't air opaque, then? It's there, why shouldn't it
intervene, if glass does? It's so much simpler for things to work as they do
on the physical, rather than ruling case-by-case whether they are transparent
or not. Would a pool of water be transparent or opaque, for instance?
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:39:26 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
<<Oops. Just reread the fragment I still have of the original Chromium
Mage post. Somehow, I completely missed the fact that he is a Sorcerous
Adept.>>
Don't sweat it.
<<<Double blush>. Does he have astral perception? (Wishing he still had
the original post.)>>
Yeah, he has Astral Perception via the Astral Sight Edge.
<<Well, this doesn't necessarily apply to Sorcerous Adepts (unless they
have astral perception). I also should have used the word 'reduced'
rather than 'poor'. I'm referring to the Aura Reading section on page 90
in the Grimiore. There it describes how a magician may make multiple
attempts to read an aura but the target number increases by +2 each time.
He may not make anymore attempts once the target number exceeds his Magic
Rating. This will, almost certainly, occur immediately after the Chrome
Wiz's first attempt. Also, an Initiated Spell Wiz will have a tough time
penetrating the Masking of other initiates. Once again, this only applies
to Chromium Mages who have (somehow) gained perception <blush>.>>
I don't know, unless the character intentionally does not use the geasa
when attempting this (or they do not apply or he's physically unable to
fulfill them), I'd let them apply to his magic rating (assuming we're in
a non-combat type of situation and he's not actually tossing spells).
><<g. astral quests are much more dangerous;>>
>He can't astrally project.
<<Certainly not through his own power. But there are ways, such as the
Free Spirit's gateway power, to bring any character into an astral quest.
If he ends up in the place of magic he may be in serious trouble.>>
Again, that's the price you pay.
<<The disadvantages suffered by the Chrome Wiz for his low Magic Rating
are
much reduced compared to a full magician. But what is left leaves
interestin' hooks for a GM to play with. ;-)>>
That would be the idea:)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:47:16 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Area Spells
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:05:45 -0500"
<s3dc7d57.071@********.dragonsys.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
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You wrote:
> Here's another "thought experiment":
> A magician casts a physical area-of-effect spell
> at a point in the middle of a wheat field. Does it
> only effect the wheat stalks towards the front that
> he can see well, does it effect a nice neat circle
> in the crop, or does it effect a few dozen or so
> stalks that happen to be the ones his mind
> "noticed"? Substitute a crowd in a passing
> subway car if you think a field of wheat is too
> boring...
Well, in a wheat field, you stand tall enough to see down over the stalks
further back, and would hit all but a few odd ones. The crowd of people, well,
you can't see them, a Combat spell can't hit them. Use a DM, if you want to
hit them around the 'cover' of the poor slags in front of them.
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 12:15:16 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Rhenium polymers
On Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:52:08 -0400 "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
writes:
>I disagree on point 3....
Yes, but his arguments for point 4 more than make up for the
discrepancies in logic.
(Hey Hank.... DON'T send anything other than PLAIN TEXT to the list...
'k?
If you don't know why, read the FAQ.)
~Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:40:15 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells -Reply
In-Reply-To: <199707281541.JAA01485@******> from "Wendy Wanders,
Subject 117" at Jul 28, 97 11:37:45 am
Content-Type: text
Wendy Wanders, Subject 117 wrote:
|
| By this argument, why isn't air opaque, then? It's there, why shouldn't it
| intervene, if glass does? It's so much simpler for things to work as they do
| on the physical, rather than ruling case-by-case whether they are transparent
| or not. Would a pool of water be transparent or opaque, for instance?
Actually, I like the idea of astral space being "foggy", with water
being a "pea soup fog" (depending on how pure the water is, distilled
water might be as clear as air). It creates a better reason for
using the range table in GII. It would give astral space a nice
eerie feel ("You see something coming at you in the distance. It
could be another mage out for a walk, it could be that elemental
that's been chasing you. What do you do?" <EGMG>)
| losthalo
So, which is it? Losthalo or Wendy? :)
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:45:14 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Area Spells
In-Reply-To: <199707281507.JAA27393@******> from "Mike Elkins" at Jul 28,
97 11:05:45 am
Content-Type: text
Mike Elkins wrote:
|
| Here's another "thought experiment":
|
| A magician casts a physical area-of-effect spell
| at a point in the middle of a wheat field. Does it
| only effect the wheat stalks towards the front that
| he can see well, does it effect a nice neat circle
| in the crop, or does it effect a few dozen or so
| stalks that happen to be the ones his mind
| "noticed"? Substitute a crowd in a passing
| subway car if you think a field of wheat is too
| boring...
Thanks Mike :p :)
I'm gonna say that the wheat that the magician can't see isn't
affected by the combat spell (ditto for the people in the crowd).
This is a rule that I've had to read a lot, cuz one of the players in
my game keeps trying to use Fireball to affect targets around corners
(We're playing SR, not AD$D! <sigh>). It doesn't matter what's
blocking your sight.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:56:55 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: david lowe <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells -Reply
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 11:37 AM 7/28/97, Wendy Wanders, Subject 117 wrote:
>By this argument, why isn't air opaque, then? It's there, why shouldn't it
>intervene, if glass does? It's so much simpler for things to work as they do
>on the physical, rather than ruling case-by-case whether they are transparent
>or not. Would a pool of water be transparent or opaque, for instance?
>
>losthalo
I would say that distilled water, or reasonably polluted water would be
transparent, but that most other bodies of water would not only be opaque,
but would block astral movement. Most bodies of water are chock full of
life. Hmmm, FAB without all that hassle anyone?
D.
David R. Lowe (dlowe@****.com)
Photography/Graphic Design
"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby."
-Daffy Duck
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 12:57:05 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells -Reply
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:56:55 -0800"
<v01540b00b0028d456ec9@[140.174.162.168]>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
You wrote:
> At 11:37 AM 7/28/97, Wendy Wanders, Subject 117 wrote:
> I would say that distilled water, or reasonably polluted water would be
> transparent, but that most other bodies of water would not only be opaque,
> but would block astral movement. Most bodies of water are chock full of
> life. Hmmm, FAB without all that hassle anyone?
The *air* is full of life, too.
Losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:59:29 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: [GC] Gen Con, Guest list :) UPDATED 27JULY:1100L
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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> >> > With the current additions Here are who is interested..
> >> > FASAMike [If there are enough hours in the day]
> >> > GRANITE
> >> > Mike Broadwater
> >> > Bull
> >> > Fro (maybe)
> >> > The Bookworm
> >> > Gossamer
> >> > Mike Paff
> >> > Caric
> >> > Court Schuett
> >> > Adam
> >> > Nick Van
> >> > Droopy
> >> > Czar Eggbert
>> > > Paolo & Armanda (my gf)
> >> >Loki
> >> >NightLife
> >> >Onyx
> >> >Smilin' Ted
> >> The Digital Mage aka Grant Erswell
> >> Steve K.
> >Bob Ooton aka TopCat,
> >Adam Lyle aka WolfJack
> The Kumquat aka Josh Brown
> Uhhh... Granite??? I said I'd be there.... after all, I haven't missed
> one in 7 years... Why start now?
I must have missed ya... Your part of this list now :)
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:18:30 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells -Reply
>By this argument, why isn't air opaque, then?
It's there, why shouldn't it
>intervene, if glass does?
I use the house rule that solids are opaque,
gases are transparent, and liquids are usually
opaque. Mist looks like mist, once you are
underwater you can see a little, but entering
water (or fire, or earth) gives the projector a
wierd feeling and cuts visibility dramatically.
Double-Domed Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 14:28:53 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lorden <westln@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gel rounds and knockdown rules
In-Reply-To: Gurth <gurth@******.NL> "Re: Gel rounds and knockdown rules"
(Jul
28, 12:34pm)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Jul 28, 12:34pm, Gurth wrote:
> Subject: Re: Gel rounds and knockdown rules
> Justin Pinnow said on 1:35/28 Jul 97...
>
> > Could someone please fill me in on the appropriate modifiers for
> > knockdown/back power levels for gel rounds? The BBB makes reference to a
> > nonexistant section within itself that is supposed to give the details on
> > this. :)
>
> That reference should read "earlier in this section," or better "on
page
> 91." Normal rounds use half their Power as the TN for the knockdown test,
> but to resist knockdown from gel rounds the full Power Level is used.
>
>-- End of excerpt from Gurth
While gel rounds do not suffer from power divided by two that
normal rounds do, they do have a -2 to their base power.So a
gel round has a "full power level" of 2 less than a normal round.
Stun rounds don't suffer from that. Besides shotguns, I can't
remember what else will fire stun rounds.
--
Nigel westln@***.edu
AKA C. Yossarrian, UPAC Projectionist
AKA Lorden
Speaking for myself, and no one else.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:38:06 +0000
Reply-To: hardware@*******.ab.ca
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <hardware@*******.datanet.ab.ca>
From: Shane Courtrille <hardware@*******.DATANET.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Toxin Rules
In-Reply-To: <199707230047.SAA04316@******>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> equal to his Body x10. If someone gives him the antidote they make a
> Biotech(10) Test (modified by the table on page 115), and if they
This seems strange.. since most of the work is done by the
antidote... not the person administering it... it seems like that
test should be related to the power of the antidote.. does it not?
*wave*
Shane Courtrille - hardware@*******.ab.ca
Being in love... What a trip...
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 15:38:13 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
In-Reply-To: <s3dc7b3f.004@********.dragonsys.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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> room would force them to move out and build a
> new hive (IMHO).
Not to mention hunting you down en masse.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 15:45:56 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!) -Reply
>> room would force them to move out and build
a
>> new hive (IMHO).
>
>Not to mention hunting you down en masse.
There is that. The bugs would be
rather...motivated <EGMG>
Double-Domed Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 15:17:25 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells -Reply
In-Reply-To: <199707281646.KAA10391@******> from "david lowe" at Jul 28,
97 09:56:55 am
Content-Type: text
david lowe wrote:
|
| At 11:37 AM 7/28/97, Wendy Wanders, Subject 117 wrote:
|
| >By this argument, why isn't air opaque, then? It's there, why shouldn't it
| >intervene, if glass does? It's so much simpler for things to work as they do
| >on the physical, rather than ruling case-by-case whether they are transparent
| >or not. Would a pool of water be transparent or opaque, for instance?
| >
| >losthalo
|
| I would say that distilled water, or reasonably polluted water would be
| transparent, but that most other bodies of water would not only be opaque,
| but would block astral movement. Most bodies of water are chock full of
| life. Hmmm, FAB without all that hassle anyone?
I would rule that poluted water would be opaque, if it's full of
particulate matter in a suspension. Clear water that's poisoned
would be transparent (which might be a clue for a mystery adventure
:).
A liquid should be transperant or opaque depending on how much
particulate matter is in suspension, and/or how much "life" is in
it.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 16:53:29 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Fayes y Angel Ramos <hansa@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Hallucinogens in SR
In-Reply-To: <19970723.181225.10550.1.Spamquat@****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:12 PM 23/07/1997 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>Any ideas on the game mechanics/effects for the use of hallucinogens in
>SR? Peyote, LSD, Shrooms... How hard might they be to acquire? How might
>they affect Magicians, especially shamans? (Keeping in mind the native
>belief in peyote as a method of inducing visions and becoming closer to
>the spirits) What nasty side affects might certain hallucinogens have
>since the Awakening? There's lots of evil Gm fodder here....
>
In Plastic Warriors (edited by Gurth) you can find rules for that.
The Elven mage
Who likes PW very much
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 02:16:00 GMT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Shadowrun Movies (was Re: A Li'l Ole Question)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9707251134.D23184-0100000@****.bcl.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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on 25.07.97 wolfjack@****.BCL.NET wrote:
w> >
w> > BTW for a REAL Shadowrun like movie, try the Origianl "Nemesis"
w> >
w>
w> I thought that "Nemesis" had more of a CyberPunk, R. Talsorian Games,
w> feel to it that an SR one. Some of the quotes, how things were done, etc
w> were very CyberPunk.
Yeah. It's very gibsoid. But that's what SR is like. Just with magic...
bye
## CrossPoint v3.1 ##
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 02:26:00 GMT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <01BC990A.140AB520@********.u96.stevens-tech.edu>
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on 25.07.97 jhurley1@************.EDU wrote:
j> > But you are right on one thing: a kick to the groin's not going to stop a
j> > fight. That's why you follow it up.
j>
j> A kick to the kneecap, on the other hand.
Kick the knee of the leg carrying his weight. If you hit it right, the
lower bone (what's its english name?!) will shoot right out of the back of
the knee. Most people (except those with 'regeneration') will stop
fighting, once there bones start leaving their body...nasty...
bye
## CrossPoint v3.1 ##
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 21:17:00 GMT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
In-Reply-To: <199707251034.MAA28798@*****.xs4all.nl>
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konichi-wa
on 25.07.97 gurth@******.NL wrote:
g> For instance, Jeff the grade 0 initiate loses a magic point (somebody
g> shot off his arm and he failed his magic loss check). He chooses a geas of
g> gesturing for the lost MP, so if he gestures he has a Magic rating of 6,
g> while if he doesn't, it's 5.
g> Then he initiates to grade 1. If using method A, he'd have a Magic rating
g> of 6 and no geas; with method B his Magic rating is 6 if he doesn't
g> gesture, and 7 when he does.
Maybe I'm wrong (I didn't get the original 'Geasa' post) but you give the
player the options 6 MP without gestureing and 7 with, or 6 with or
without it, right? So, why should he take the second one? It would just
erase his chance to cast better spells whith gestures.
bye
## CrossPoint v3.1 ##
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 02:05:00 GMT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
In-Reply-To: <yam7146.2039.136416864@****.amigaworld.com>
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Hi!
on 26.07.97 barbie@**********.COM wrote:
b> Thats true our powerlevel is in our old charactergroup fairly high.
b> Me going for 512 karma the rest between 450 and 300.
b> And we are six and up most of the time.
b> Most of them have some skill in the range of 12 to 20.
b> Mainly for their main field of activity but some are just for "hobby"
b> skills like painting dance or so.
One thing: Is it fun anymore?
In my group we decided that skills 10+ are above what you can hold as a
normal person (We still have to convince our GM. He's bit out of scale
lately). O.K. you can learn one skill at level 15 for some time, but one
month out of training (and I'm talking about all-day-training) and you are
back at 12 or something like that. If your char can do anything, why play
anymore? Why find the guy who coded the MCT mainframe OS and get some
information about it, when you can crack it with a RadioShack-deck?
BTW, how long have you played these chars. Some friends of mine play the
same guys since two years and the best they have is a troll with a karma-
pool of 12...
bye
## CrossPoint v3.1 ##
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 18:39:00 GMT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Karma and Attributes
In-Reply-To: <199707262204.SAA27848@****.provide.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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on 26.07.97 vanyel@*******.NET wrote:
v> I feel that since it's the sammies that tend to increase their attributes
v> the most, that it's fine by me if they get stuck paying more than mages
v> because a spell lock can be turned off. At least their cyber/bioware can't
v> be grounded through. It all has its ups and downs. I would also rule that
v> Physads can't turn of their increased attributes, either. Thus, they too
v> would get stuck paying the higher cost....which is also fine by me for the
v> same reason.
Well, I don't think thats o.k. You are right, the fighters (Sams, Mercs,
Physads, etc) *have* to increase their attributes the most. If you would
make that more expensive to them, they would fall back behind mages as the
game developes (this is already happening in SR, anyway). It's not that
much fun anymore, if a 100 karmapoints mage takes down three fighters of
the same karmalevel without even starting to sweat.
You can keep control of the skill/attribute/spell/whatever ratings by
simply letting the GM decide whether the char can increase it or not.
Works just fine in our group (O.K., you need a non-asshole GM, but if your
GM *is* an asshole, it's no fun anyway).
Tobias
## CrossPoint v3.1 ##
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 21:48:00 GMT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage
In-Reply-To: <199707250640.BAA27934@*******.fgi.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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on 25.07.97 topcat@***.NET wrote:
t> Here's a Chromium Mage (Burnout) for ya...
[cutting...]
t> Skills (10 pts)
t> ---------------
t> Sorcery: 6
t> Magic Theory: 3
t> Hermetic: 5
Hmmm...Where I come from, he wouldn't survive ten minutes. No chance to
flee, fight or anything. Kinda like a weapon I take out of my van, use to
blow everything into pieces and put back before it get's damaged. No fun
at all. (No *roleplaying* at all)
t> Mana Missile 6 (drain 3M physical)
t> Stun Bolt 6 (drain 2S physical)
t> Treat 6 [drain 3(wound level) physical, target 7]
t> Redirect 6 [drain (1/2 spell force)(spell damage code - 1 DC) physical]
t> Power Dart 6 (drain 4L physical)
Ouch!
t> Secure Jacket (dikoted) 6/4 armor rating
t> Helmet (dikoted) 2/2 armor rating
t> Forearm Guards (dikoted) 1/3 armor rating (only in melee)
t> Large Riot Shield (dikoted) 3/1 armor rating (not in melee)
t> >>>>[That's an 11/8 armor factor, 9/10 in melee, 8/7 without
toys]<<<<
t> DocWagon Platinum
t> As much high lifestyle as can be afforded...
Do you allow dikoted stuff at CharGen?
t> 4) Stats - gotta raise Body, so he's nigh-impossible to hurt, and Strength,
t> so he can eventually wear dikoted heavy military armor...
STOP!! Dikoted heavy milspec?!? What is this? The Mr. Mega-Munchkin-
Contest? I don't know any GM who would allow this (and I know quite a lot)
This guy's a nice example how to make a killing-maschine, but no char.
t> Granted, this character represents perhaps the pinnacle of powergaming for
t> his sort.
And my GM didn't allow my phyad to have unarmed combat >8.....Man!
t> It was intended to be such though, and I have no intentions
t> whatsoever of playing such a beast (though I would happily play a cybered
t> mage, this one doesn't thrill me).
Do you think, he is playable?
bye
## CrossPoint v3.1 ##
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 17:08:35 +1000
Reply-To: jade@***.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jason & Deanna Rodhouse <jade@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Area Spells
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:51:28 -0500 Glenn Brook said:
snip
>Finally, an astrally perceiving mage would be able to target
>both physical and astral targets but would be subject to a +2 TN
>(associated with the attempt to make a physical action while astrally
>perceiving) when targeting physical targets.
I don't think the +2 TN modifier would apply in this scenario since the
spellcaster is indeed casting a spell. Finding the target wouldn't
necessarily be a strictly physical action. The modifier only really
applies when the magician is trying to do something not directly tied to
the astral plane(ie. tying his shoelaces, talking to someone). Being
that all living things have a bright shiny aura, the TN modifier would
not apply when trying to spot them.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 00:10:55 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Rhenium polymers
In-Reply-To: <505E6C4C1EA1D011B90D00805FE2F492073B15@*********.reichhold.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 28-Jul-97 wrote Jackson, Hank:
##### # # # # ## #####
# # # # # # # # #
# ###### # # # # # #
# # # # ## # ###### #####
# # # ## ## # # #
# # # # # # # #
DON`T USE MIME, READ THE FAQ WHY
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 18:19:51 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Scott Spencer <java@**********.COM>
Subject: Shadowrn
Comments: To: SRcreate <srcreate@****.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Is the Shadowrn list down or am I just paranoid that I have not gotten any
mail all weekend.
Java
"And into the heart of the Storm, with a cry that pierced all other sounds,
tearing clouds asunder, the Nazgul came...And all were branded with the
foul token of the Lidless Eye"
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 19:16:13 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
On Sun, 27 Jul 1997 21:17:00 GMT Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
writes:
>konichi-wa
Welcome!
Bull, I *think* that's your cue (and since I don't know enough Japanese
to find a bathroom, I'm not entirely sure:)
<el snippo de Gurth :) >
<<Maybe I'm wrong (I didn't get the original 'Geasa' post) but you give
the player the options 6 MP without gestureing and 7 with, or 6 with or
without it, right? So, why should he take the second one? It would just
erase his chance to cast better spells whith gestures.>>
What Gurth was talking about was allowing the character shed the geased
magic point and replace it with a new, non-geased point. The advantage is
that he no longer needs to gesture, the disadvantage is that he loses the
possibility of an extra point for spellcasting or whatever.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 19:16:13 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage
On Sun, 27 Jul 1997 21:48:00 GMT Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
writes:
<very big snip>
>STOP!! Dikoted heavy milspec?!? What is this? The Mr. Mega-Munchkin-
>Contest? I don't know any GM who would allow this (and I know quite a
>lot)
>This guy's a nice example how to make a killing-maschine, but no char.
I don't know if this will hit the list before Bob's message does, but I
think you missed the message that spawned this. TopCat's Chrome Mage was
designed to absolutely abuse the rules system, it was intended to test
out how far you could go with the idea of a burned-out mage and see just
how munchkinish a character could be created with that idea in mind. It
wasn't designed to be realistic, or playable (from the standpoint of
personality;) It was designed to stretch the rules as far as possible.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 19:13:47 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [GC] Re: Gen Con, Guest list :) UPDATED 26JULY:1005L
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:52 PM 7/27/97 -0500, Adam J. Lyle wrote these timeless words:
<SNIP>
and me, even though I am new to
>this list and have posted just one reply.
Well then, let me just say "HI!" and welcome you to the list.
+++++ BULL-BOT ACTIVATED
+++++ AUTO GREET INITIATED
Hello there, new list-member Adam J. Lyle! Welcome to the Shadowrn Mailing
List!
It's a great place, with good people and great discussion! hope ya like mail!
+++++ AUTO OFF TOPIC RANDOM GENERATOR v2.1 INITIATED
+++++ TOPIC #827
I may be a BOT, but I have feeling, DAMMIT! :]
+++++ END AUTO GREET
Bull-the-Welcome-Ork-Decker
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 19:13:44 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Rhenium polymers
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:10 AM 7/29/97 -0500, Barbie wrote these timeless words:
>At 28-Jul-97 wrote Jackson, Hank:
>
>
> ##### # # # # ## #####
> # # # # # # # # #
> # ###### # # # # # #
> # # # # ## # ###### #####
> # # # ## ## # # #
> # # # # # # # #
>
>
>DON`T USE MIME, READ THE FAQ WHY
>
>
Heh...
Hey Spike! Barbie's doing your job, dude...:]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 19:13:49 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: help
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:47 PM 7/27/97 -0400, Ian White wrote these timeless words:
>Help me please????????????
>I've newly joined the list and changed to the digest version, but have
>decided that I prefer individual postings.
>My problem is I don't know how to change back.
>could someone please help me???
>
Well, you've already gotten some help with the digest stuff, so I won;t
repeat it all.
But... I need to officially greet you to the list still, so...:]
+++++ BULL-BOT ACTIVATED
+++++ AUTO GREET INITIATED
Hello there, new list-member Dernhelm! Welcome to the Shadowrn Mailing List!
It's a great place, with good people and great discussion! hope ya like mail!
+++++ AUTO OFF TOPIC RANDOM GENERATOR v3.0 INITIATED
+++++ TOPIC #631
Keaton, Clooney, Kilmer, or West?
+++++ END AUTO GREET
Bull-the-welcome-Ork-Decker
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 19:16:13 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: [SR3] Conjuring
I was doing some thinking (dangerous, I know) on the Conjuring rules as
written in SR2, and had a flash of sudden inspiration on a revised set of
conjuring rules (unfortunately, I don't think they're any less clunky).
The system I wound up with is similar to Spellcasting
Anyways, here's what I was thinking:
Conjuring Pool:
The Conjuring Pool is similar to the Magic (which, for clarity,
could be re-named the Sorcery Pool) Pool used in spellcasting and is
based upon the summoner's Conjuring Skill. A Shaman's totem modifiers add
or subtract from the Conjuring Pool. Spirit Foci add dice to the
Conjuring Pool. Power Foci add their rating to the bonded magician's
Magic Rating, and also to his/her Magic and Conjuring Pools.
Summoning:
Summoning Drain is figured by replacing Magic with Charisma in
the chart on pg140 of SR2. Drain is resisted with Willpower and any dice
thrown in from the newly-created Conjuring Pool.
To summon a spirit, the magician rolls his/her Charisma, plus any
allocated dice from the Conjuring Pool, against a target number equal to
the spirit's force, modified only by wound modiiers or geas modifiers
(under SR2). The summoning magician may throw in up to his Magic Rating
in dice from his Conjuring Pool. Every two successes equals one service.
Banishing:
Banishing a spirit pits the magician's will against that of the
spirit ("by the power of my will..."). In a banishing test, the magician
rolls his Willpower (plus Conjuring Pool) against the spirit's Force. The
spirit rolls its willpower (usually equal to its Force) against the
magician's Magic Rating. The winner's net successes reduce the loser's
Magic/Force Rating by one for every two successes.
I haven't gotten to the tests on commanding uncontrolled/free spirits or
the ones for contesting the control of a spirit from the controlling
magician, but I wanted to see what the list in general thought of the
idea so far. I'm hoping it becomes a bit easier by being more like the
spellcasting system, which is (I think) a bit better known due to greater
use.
--
-Canthros, vanishing back into the electronic ether to get back to work
on updating his webpage...
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 18:36:49 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
In-Reply-To: <19970728.191514.25679.3.lobo1@****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Mon, 28 Jul 1997, John E Pederson wrote:
> Summoning:
> Summoning Drain is figured by replacing Magic with Charisma in
> the chart on pg140 of SR2. Drain is resisted with Willpower and any dice
> thrown in from the newly-created Conjuring Pool.
> To summon a spirit, the magician rolls his/her Charisma, plus any
> allocated dice from the Conjuring Pool, against a target number equal to
> the spirit's force, modified only by wound modiiers or geas modifiers
> (under SR2). The summoning magician may throw in up to his Magic Rating
> in dice from his Conjuring Pool. Every two successes equals one service.
Hold it; if you replace the conjuring "skill" with naked charisma, then
what is the point of having that skill at all. I like this idea, but leave
it as a skill test, and not as a charisma test.
just my 0.02
-Bill
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 02:06:20 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
In-Reply-To: <6ajjFALwX3B@****.komet.teuto.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 27-Jul-97 wrote Tobias Berghoff:
>Hi!
>One thing: Is it fun anymore?
Oh definetly
>In my group we decided that skills 10+ are above what you can hold as a
>normal person (We still have to convince our GM. He's bit out of scale
>lately). O.K. you can learn one skill at level 15 for some time, but one
>month out of training (and I'm talking about all-day-training) and you are
>back at 12 or something like that.
Nice thoughts but IMHO the time scale to forgett a skilllevel is much
to low, maybe make it basetime=skilllevel devided by six or so
and the result is the time in months in that you will lose a skilllevel
if the skill in question is not used/trained.
Throw some memory rolls in it to see if the character can hold his skilllevel
if he don`t use the skill.
Or make it simple just use a memoryroll once a year for every skill of the
character
modify the roll if the character has used the skill.
Just my quick thoughts.
>If your char can do anything, why play
>anymore? Why find the guy who coded the MCT mainframe OS and get some
>information about it, when you can crack it with a RadioShack-deck?
>BTW, how long have you played these chars. Some friends of mine play the
>same guys since two years and the best they have is a troll with a karma-
>pool of 12...
Oh our charcters as a whole can do much anything but alone?
These are specialist.
MCT mainframe? Not a nice place and in our game even we need more
than an radio-shack(tm).
And sometimes you find the info you need not in the net you must
talk to the people in question.
And with the things we do comes also greet responsibility so we are not just
a bunch of superpowered thuggs. We are in the upperclass of shadowrunning like
Bull and some other too.
<Bow to Bull the-famos-Ork-decker>
Some of the characters in our game are as old as the first edition :-)
Maincore around four to five years.
pool 45 is the highst :]
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 02:11:28 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Rhenium polymers
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970728185954.2faf6d0e@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 28-Jul-97 wrote Bull:
>Hey Spike! Barbie's doing your job, dude...:]
Just as deputy :-)
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 20:22:31 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Mon, 28 Jul 1997 19:16:13 -0400 (EDT)"
<19970728.191514.25679.3.lobo1@****.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
You wrote:
> Conjuring Pool:
> The Conjuring Pool is similar to the Magic (which, for clarity,
> could be re-named the Sorcery Pool) Pool used in spellcasting and is
> based upon the summoner's Conjuring Skill. A Shaman's totem modifiers add
> or subtract from the Conjuring Pool. Spirit Foci add dice to the
> Conjuring Pool. Power Foci add their rating to the bonded magician's
> Magic Rating, and also to his/her Magic and Conjuring Pools.
Okay, a small problem I see with this is that while Magic Pool sometimes needs
to be saved to defend against spells, it's rare that you'd need to hold back
any of the dice in your Conjuring Pool, you'd rather pump as many as possible
into whatever you're doing. This method basically just gives more dive for
Conjuring-related tests. If that's what you want, that's fine, but I don't
personally think it's needed. The system's are closer to the procedures for
casting spells with Sorcery, so it does make the magic system a little more
similar and compatible, so that's one strength. I would just rather see less
dice supplements in the game overall.
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 20:35:10 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TEGTMEBC@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Mon, 28 Jul 1997 18:36:49 -0500"
<Pine.SOL.3.91.970728183504.4235B-100000@******.tamu.edu>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
You wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Jul 1997, John E Pederson wrote:
> > Summoning:
> > Summoning Drain is figured by replacing Magic with Charisma in
> > the chart on pg140 of SR2. Drain is resisted with Willpower and any dice
> > thrown in from the newly-created Conjuring Pool.
> > To summon a spirit, the magician rolls his/her Charisma, plus any
> > allocated dice from the Conjuring Pool, against a target number equal to
> > the spirit's force, modified only by wound modiiers or geas modifiers
> > (under SR2). The summoning magician may throw in up to his Magic Rating
> > in dice from his Conjuring Pool. Every two successes equals one service.
> Hold it; if you replace the conjuring "skill" with naked charisma, then
> what is the point of having that skill at all. I like this idea, but leave
> it as a skill test, and not as a charisma test.
You're right about not having any use for the skill if Charisma is used
in it's stead, but that's how it works with spellcasting. The Sorcery skill
doesn't do a whole lot of good except give you a good Magic Pool. That said, I
like the idea of the Conjuring Pool, so it is possible to conjure high force
elementals and spirits without having to be an elf. But I also have to agree
with Bill here, and say you should still use the conjuring skill for the test.
I personally think the sorcery skill should be used for something other than
giving a extra dice pool as well. In the case of the Conjuring Pool, maybe it
would be possible to reverse what you have listed for the test. Maybe you could
have the Pool be based off of the Charisma, while the test is still using the
Conjuring Skill. That sound too far out of whack to you?
-The Immortal Mental
PS- It's good to finally be back after summer.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 20:44:33 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TEGTMEBC@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU
Subject: Re: Area Spells
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:45:14 -0600"
<199707281645.KAA10201@******>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
David wrote:
> Mike Elkins wrote:
> |
> | Here's another "thought experiment":
> |
> | A magician casts a physical area-of-effect spell
> | at a point in the middle of a wheat field. Does it
> | only effect the wheat stalks towards the front that
> | he can see well, does it effect a nice neat circle
> | in the crop, or does it effect a few dozen or so
> | stalks that happen to be the ones his mind
> | "noticed"? Substitute a crowd in a passing
> | subway car if you think a field of wheat is too
> | boring...
> I'm gonna say that the wheat that the magician can't see isn't
> affected by the combat spell (ditto for the people in the crowd).
> This is a rule that I've had to read a lot, cuz one of the players in
> my game keeps trying to use Fireball to affect targets around corners
> (We're playing SR, not AD$D! <sigh>). It doesn't matter what's
> blocking your sight.
OK, I have to bring this up, because it's just been bugging me. Now if
a spell isn't able to affect people that the magician can't see, as you
suggest, then how does the area of effect get handled? For example: The mage
that loves to hit people with fireballs from around corners is being chased by
a mob of angery people. He ducks around a corner, and whaits for his victims.
The moment the first person walks around the corner, he can now see them and so
lets loose with a fireball. The person he could see is obviously a dead duck,
but what happens in regard to the rest of the mob that was right behind him?
They are, for the sake of argument, still within the normal radius of the
spell. Are these people supposed to be affected by the spell or not? I would
say that they would be affected based on the fact that they weren't the targets
of the spell, they just got caught in the blast. But from your argument, it
would seem that they should be unaffected since the caster can't see them.
I'm not trying to shoot holes in your logic, I just want to know why
the people wouldn't be affected by a blast that is in the physical plane. After
all, once it hits the target, it changes form the astral to the physical plane.
At least that's how I think it works.
-The Immortal Mental
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 21:00:57 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I just wanted to let you know that I really like the Conjuring rules the
way they are currently. They are clean and concise, and they don't allow
folks to whip up high force spirits without recourse.
Not that the suggestions made weren't nice, I just don't think the system
needs to be changed.
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 21:06:12 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Area Spells
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> From: TEGTMEBC@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU
> Date: Monday, July 28, 1997 9:44 PM
<Snip>
> David wrote:
> > This is a rule that I've had to read a lot, cuz one of the players in
> > my game keeps trying to use Fireball to affect targets around corners
> > (We're playing SR, not AD$D! <sigh>). It doesn't matter what's
> > blocking your sight.
> OK, I have to bring this up, because it's just been bugging me.
Now if
> a spell isn't able to affect people that the magician can't see, as you
> suggest, then how does the area of effect get handled? For example: The
mage
> that loves to hit people with fireballs from around corners is being
chased by
> a mob of angery people. He ducks around a corner, and whaits for his
victims.
> The moment the first person walks around the corner, he can now see them
and so
> lets loose with a fireball. The person he could see is obviously a dead
duck,
> but what happens in regard to the rest of the mob that was right behind
him?
They are not in LOS, therefore they are not affected. Your area effect
spell just hit one person only.
> They are, for the sake of argument, still within the normal radius of the
> spell. Are these people supposed to be affected by the spell or not? I
would
No, because for area of effect spells (except for DMs), you must be able to
see anyone/thing you want to target by the spell. Area of effect has no
effect on this. Anyone that can be seen within the area of effect of the
spell will be effected.
> say that they would be affected based on the fact that they weren't the
targets
> of the spell, they just got caught in the blast. But from your argument,
it
> would seem that they should be unaffected since the caster can't see
them.
He is correct by stating this.
> I'm not trying to shoot holes in your logic, I just want to know
why
> the people wouldn't be affected by a blast that is in the physical plane.
After
> all, once it hits the target, it changes form the astral to the physical
plane.
> At least that's how I think it works.
It still grounds through their auras. If you can't see them, the spell
doesn't target their auras.
Damaging Maniputations (DMs) behave differently. They don't target auras,
thus a blast of flame or whatever fills the area of effect, effecting
everyone within it.
Hope that clears things up a bit. :)
> -The Immortal
Mental
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 20:55:38 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: James Paulsen <lowfyr@***********.COM>
Organization: Northern Net
Subject: My New Campaign
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Hey all, I need some input :)
I have decided to start a new campaign (as soon as the characters in the
current game retire), but I have sorta changed the premise of my game,
or at least the beginning of it.
Instead of having the players create characters who are already
shadowrunners, I want to try more of a roleplayed background. I have
done this before in just about every game I play, just never SR. I am
going to have them create fairly mundane characters (wageslaves, small
time corps, or, if I am feeling really charitable, maybe a cop, corpsec,
or a gutterpunk, but nothing heavy).
Anyway, the whole concept is based on easing them from their mundane,
tragically boring lives into the world of Big Scary Shadowrunners--make
them the innocents, and initially the victims (well...later too, but
that's another story ;).
To begin with they will have very few shadowrunish skills, mostly only
those that would be tied to a mundane character (i.e. Electronics B/R
for a repairman, etc.). The same will apply to both magic and cyberware.
If they want any, it will have to justifiable, legal, and rational for
them to get anything beyond a datajack.
Eventually they will become "full blown" runners, having a detailed and
thouroghly played out background of how they entered the biz. I am very
excited about this as are my players, but I was wondering if anybody had
ever done this sort of thing and if so how it worked out? Also, we
generally prefer the point based system (no mertis or flaws, however, as
I usually dole out the merits and flaws in their bg with out points
or benefits)so are there any ideas on how to restrict the system to keep
them from making a real kick-ass janitor?
Anyway...gotta stop blabbing,
Thanks in advance,
Jim
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 23:03:38 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
On Mon, 28 Jul 1997 18:36:49 -0500 William Monroe Ashe
<wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU> writes:
<<Hold it; if you replace the conjuring "skill" with naked charisma, then
what is the point of having that skill at all. I like this idea, but
leave it as a skill test, and not as a charisma test.>>
The reason I did that was to keep from making Charisma the 'unused
attribute' and give it some practical use outside social situations (and
thus give a reason for a munchkin to have a Charisma greater than one). I
certainly see your point, If I can find a better way of keeping Charisma
important, I'll certainly go that route (maybe make the Conjuring Pool
based on Attriubutes?).
The whole idea behind this was to create a conjuring system that makes
sense, while not making Charisma a near-useless attribute. Hmmm...maybe a
modifier for Charisma depending on its rating.
<shrug> Got any ideas?
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 23:03:38 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
On Mon, 28 Jul 1997 20:22:31 -0500 "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU> writes:
<<Okay, a small problem I see with this is that while Magic Pool
sometimes needs to be saved to defend against spells, it's rare that
you'd need to hold back any of the dice in your Conjuring Pool, you'd
rather pump as many as possible into whatever you're doing.>>
Well, the mage still needs to stay awake, or he loses the spirit, and not
resisting all the drain isn't going to do a shaman any favors (why bother
with a spirit in the middle of combat if it'll save your butt only so
that you can fall unconcious and get captured anyway?)
<<This method basically just gives more dive for Conjuring-related tests.
If that's what you want, that's fine, but I don't personally think it's
needed. The system's are closer to the procedures for casting spells
with Sorcery, so it does make the magic system a little more similar and
compatible, so that's one strength. I would just rather see less dice
supplements in the game overall.>>
:) I figured I'd get this complaint from you:) I really am against giving
more dice to the players, but I'm also trying to preserve the use of both
Conjuring Skill and Charisma, while still getting a system that makes
some sort of sense. I also wanted to allow the summoning magician a bit
more flexibility on his summoning (this would mean more to a shaman than
mage, though). It's not always easy to improve upon something, and I'd
certainly be more than welcome to input. If you've got any ideas, I'd
love to hear them...
--
-Canthros (Ah, well. The list was seeming kind of quiet anyway...)
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 23:03:38 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
On Mon, 28 Jul 1997 20:35:10 -0500 TEGTMEBC@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU writes:
<<You're right about not having any use for the skill if Charisma is used
in it's stead, but that's how it works with spellcasting. The Sorcery
skill doesn't do a whole lot of good except give you a good Magic Pool.
That said, I like the idea of the Conjuring Pool, so it is possible to
conjure high force elementals and spirits without having to be an elf.
But I also have to agree with Bill here, and say you should still use the
conjuring skill for the test. I personally think the sorcery skill should
be used for something other than giving a extra dice pool as well. In the
case of the Conjuring Pool, maybe it would be possible to reverse what
you have listed for the test. Maybe you could have the Pool be based off
of the Charisma, while the test is still using the Conjuring Skill. That
sound too far out of whack to you?>>
No, it doesn't, and I'd even considered just such an idea, but it then
does the same thing to Charisma that what I've just proposed does to
Conjuring skill (how anyone would be able to plausibly conjure a spirit
without at least a little bit of Conjuring Skill [or some serious
defaulting], I don't know, and any GM that let a player do such a thing
had better have some good reasoning behind him:). As I said (or will say,
depending on what order these messages wind up in) in my reply to Bill,
I'm trying to set it up in such a way that Charisma remains important,
certain discrepancies that (IMO) exist in the rules as-is (Drain based on
and resisted by Charisma) get fixed and Conjuring skill doesn't get set
totally by the wayside. Keeping the skill involved is the only reason
there's a dice pool at all.
Plan B: Summoning is handled by a Conjuring(Force) test, successes from
this test may be applied to the Conjuring Drain resistance test.
<<PS- It's good to finally be back after summer.>>
_After_ summer? It's still July! That sounds a lot like summer (if you're
in the northern hemisphere, anyway:)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 23:03:38 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
On Mon, 28 Jul 1997 21:00:57 -0400 Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
writes:
<<I just wanted to let you know that I really like the Conjuring rules
the way they are currently. They are clean and concise, and they don't
allow folks to whip up high force spirits without recourse.
Not that the suggestions made weren't nice, I just don't think the system
needs to be changed.>>
My only complaint with the system as-is is the way that Conjuring Drain
is handled, I don't think it should be based on Charisma and it doesn't
make sense that it would be resisted by it, either. Of course, that's
only my opinion, I'm not sure what the general list opinion on the idea
is.
--
-Canthros (you know, if it weren't for the useful feedback I'm getting
out of this, I think I'd be sorry I ever proposed it:) And Kumquat? You
were right. It _is_ like throwing raw meat at a pack of rabid animals:)
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
