| From: | Unknown sender |
|---|---|
| Subject: | None |
| Date: | Unknown time and date |
> Of course I COULD be wrong... but... IMHO the combat pol is
> refreshed at the beginning of a new turn...
cf. pp. 84 BBB:
dice pools refresh on a character's actions, the refresh at the start of a
combat is an exception to this (i.e. everybody starts a combat with full pools,
before their first action).
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:26:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Physad Enhanced Centering
In a message dated 97-07-24 01:01:48 EDT, lobo1@****.COM (John E Pederson)
writes:
>
> >Sciences, etc.), Knowledge (Big List), Language (Bigger List?), B/R
> >(can be
> >interesting, character can make some big money on the side), Magical
> >(which
> >allows for the Centering to actually get used in Enchanting and a few
> >other
> >things)...
>
>
> Except that a physad can't enchant, and can't use most magical skills
> except for mundane effects (which is to say, in the same way(s) a mundane
> could use them).
>
>
True, but a Physical Mage can, and these rules apply to them as well. Also,
a Physical Adept -CAN- enchant, even a mundane can make fetishes. As such,
the skills could go in that direction as well.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:23:21 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: First session as GM
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 24 Jul 1997 03:29:08 -0400"
<199707240730.DAA03442@****.provide.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
You wrote:
> Here's the question (now that I have bored you to death with background
> information): How do I allow the PCs to live out their lives, with all
> that entails, without boring the other players to death in the meantime? I
> want to keep them all occupied, but I can only have one serious
> in-character conversation at a time. Any suggestions?
"To make a long story short (too late!)" ;)
Let another PC play out some of the NPC stuff, if it's just background. :)
Try to get all the PCs involved in it. :)
> 2. I am trying to come up with campaign/adventure/run ideas that do not
> revolve around rare magical artifacts, vampires, raiding megacorps, etc. I
> want to start the players off with a few simple (generic?) runs that aren't
> too overwhelming. Then, after a few sessions, I will lay the good stuff on
> them. ;) I am really short on ideas, but if anyone cares to share their
> ideas or past run experiences with me, I would greatly appreciate it (and
> so would my players, but they wouldn't really be aware of it). :)
Bodyguarding, stakeouts, tailing people, 'bill collecting', etc. :) Think of
the type of stuff Mob thugs do...
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 14:30:04 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Buckalew <mike_buckalew@******.COM>
Subject: [GC] A Drive in the Country
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
The Kumquat Wrote:
>C-Y'all at Gen Con! (I'll at least stop by GRANITE's game, even though I
>couldn't get in.... not pre-regging does that.... D'oh!)
I did preregister and I did get into A Drive in the Country. I got my
prereg tickets yesterday and the interesting thing is that it lists Jill
Lucas as the GM for this event.
Is this just because it's a FASA sponsored event, or is she actually one
of the three (I think it's three) GMs running the game in the first round?
Anyway, I'm very excited. I got in to every game I signed up for, with
only one (The Babylon Project) being shifted to a different time. It's
going to be a busy 4 days!
Buck (Mike Buckalew)
Test Manager, FileMaker Pro
Email: buck@******.com
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GCS d- s-: a C++ !U !P !L !E W+ N o? K? $w--- !O $M+(++)
!V PS+(+++) PE++ Y+ PGP- t+ 5+ !X R++ tv+>(+++) b++ DI+++
D---- G e++ h--- r+++ y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:32:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Multiple GMs
In a message dated 97-07-24 10:49:40 EDT, Clen@******.CO.ZA writes:
>
> Does anyone have any experience at multiple GMimg?
>
> Bruce, Erica and myself did it for a while.
>
> Hmm, like Bruce asks - is there anyone with any ideas out there?
>
> Clen
>
I guess that I fall into that category. Mike (airwisp@***.com) and I trade
off, and had a third GM a while back (but he's decided not to do so now).
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:35:02 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:13:58 -0400"
<970724101351_-489911768@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Steve wrote:
<snip>
> So, how about this: instead of the present system, allow magical characters
> who lose a Magic attribute point to take a Geas *to get the Magic point
> back.* As long as the character follows the geas, their Magic rating remains
> what it was. If they break the geas, the lose the use of that point of Magic
> until the geas is obeyed again. Each Magic point lost would require a
> seperate geas (unlike the present system where a geas is required for every 2
> points lost).
Frankly, I love this idea. Rather than 'not being able to become an Initiate',
the char gains something useful (in a direct way, that is) back from the geas.
> One advantage to this system is it would allow Magic loss to work more the
> same for magicians and physical adepts. A physad could likewise take a geas
> on a lost Magic point, applying the geas to 1 point-worth of their powers.
> This works like a normal physad geas (from Awakenings) except, instead of a
> cost-break, the adept gets to keep the Magic point and the powers as long as
> the geas is unbroken.
> An initiate who takes a geas ordeal essentially accepts a limit on the bonus
> Magic point provided by the initiation. If the initiate follows the geas,
> they get the Magic point, if they break it, they lose it until they live up
> to the geas again.
> This system would make burnout magicians more viable as magical characters
> (perhaps too viable). Natrually, a character whose Magic drops to 0 or less
> still becomes a mundane. A character can also choose to reject his geasa, in
> which case he permanently loses the Magic points associated with them, and
> cannot ever take other geasa, the character is on the path to burning out.
You might want to leave in the possibility of taking further geasa even if
earlier ones were rejected, imo. I really never liked the 'one-way' decision
of rejecting geasa.
> Naturally, one of the disadvantages is changing the existing system. I would
> like to know what everything thinks about this and what the possible
> ramifications might be. Remember, none of this is written in stone (or even
> in mud, at this point). We're just tossing around ideas. Mike can (and may)
> still decide the only things the SR2 magic system needs fixed are spell locks
> and grounding (his personal pet peeves).
You will see far more cybered mages, most likely, since they can lose magic to
cyber and 'get it back' with geasa. Some test characters might illustrate
whether this would disrupt balance, maybe some list members could work up a few
(trying hard as they can to min/max them in this direction?) and see what we
get? And think of what this could do for Physical Mages (if your campaign
allows them...). Mages tend to avoid things like Wired Reflexes because of the
high Magic losses, but with this rule, you might see a lot of sammie/mage
amalgams (not that that would be bad, they might still remain pretty balanced).
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:46:58 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:42:37 -0400"
<Pine.OSF.3.96.970724102239.25771A-100000@*******.cs.uml.edu>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
You wrote:
> True sexually xmitted diseases should be a real concern for characters
> living low lifestyles or less but I try to keep most aspects of
> sexuality out of my game. The reason, as the GM i just can't
> realistically roleplay a woman who the character is trying to "score"
> with.
Umm... you do realize that STDs have nothing to do with social class, right?
I'm fairly sure the Low lifestyle could support buying condoms. I sympathize
with the 'not able to roleplay willing-or-not-so-willing females', though.
*shrug*
losthalo, who has roleplayed female characters before, as PCs, but still
doesn't feel like playing out his players' GFs...
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 07:52:32 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
In-Reply-To: <199707240946.LAA11316@*****.xs4all.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> You HAVE to use Willpower instead of your skill, unless you have access to
> things a weapon focus (presumably that must be bonded to you, although
> SRII fails to mention that) or something that attacks the spirit's
> Vulnerability weakness (for example, using a flamethrower on a water
> elemental).
... or a baseball bat covered with insecticide... that's the only way we
lived through bug city.
Lady Jestyr
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:05:16 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
> Date: Thursday, July 24, 1997 5:52 PM
> > You HAVE to use Willpower instead of your skill, unless you have access
to
> > things a weapon focus (presumably that must be bonded to you, although
> > SRII fails to mention that) or something that attacks the spirit's
> > Vulnerability weakness (for example, using a flamethrower on a water
> > elemental).
> ... or a baseball bat covered with insecticide... that's the only way we
> lived through bug city.
Well, not all bugs are effected by insecticides....
> Lady Jestyr
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:09:07 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> From: Wendy Wanders, Subject 117 <KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
> Date: Thursday, July 24, 1997 6:35 PM
> Steve wrote:
> <snip>
> > So, how about this: instead of the present system, allow magical
characters
> > who lose a Magic attribute point to take a Geas *to get the Magic point
> > back.* As long as the character follows the geas, their Magic rating
remains
> > what it was. If they break the geas, the lose the use of that point of
Magic
> > until the geas is obeyed again. Each Magic point lost would require a
> > seperate geas (unlike the present system where a geas is required for
every 2
> > points lost).
> Frankly, I love this idea. Rather than 'not being able to become an
Initiate',
> the char gains something useful (in a direct way, that is) back from the
geas.
Again, I need to point out that Geasa are NOT beneficial. They are
crutches. They don't make it any easier to use magic, they help you to
catch up to the norm. You shouldn't get anything for having a Geas.
Having the Geas allows you to continue to use magic. That's its own
benefit.
<Snip>
> > This system would make burnout magicians more viable as magical
characters
> > (perhaps too viable). Natrually, a character whose Magic drops to 0 or
less
> > still becomes a mundane. A character can also choose to reject his
geasa, in
> > which case he permanently loses the Magic points associated with them,
and
> > cannot ever take other geasa, the character is on the path to burning
out.
> You might want to leave in the possibility of taking further geasa even
if
> earlier ones were rejected, imo. I really never liked the 'one-way'
decision
> of rejecting geasa.
Why? I mean, that's the path of the burned out mage. Without the one way
decision, there wouldn't be a path. A burned out mage could turn right
around and no longer be burned out...even with all his new cyberwear.
Yuck.
> > Naturally, one of the disadvantages is changing the existing system. I
would
> > like to know what everything thinks about this and what the possible
> > ramifications might be. Remember, none of this is written in stone (or
even
> > in mud, at this point). We're just tossing around ideas. Mike can (and
may)
> > still decide the only things the SR2 magic system needs fixed are spell
locks
> > and grounding (his personal pet peeves).
> You will see far more cybered mages, most likely, since they can lose
magic to
> cyber and 'get it back' with geasa. Some test characters might
illustrate
> whether this would disrupt balance, maybe some list members could work up
a few
> (trying hard as they can to min/max them in this direction?) and see what
we
> get? And think of what this could do for Physical Mages (if your
campaign
> allows them...). Mages tend to avoid things like Wired Reflexes because
of the
> high Magic losses, but with this rule, you might see a lot of sammie/mage
> amalgams (not that that would be bad, they might still remain pretty
balanced).
I doubt it. There's a reason technology and magic conflict with each
other. Game balance. If you allow folks to keep high magic ratings while
being stuffed with cyber and bioware, you are asking for trouble.
> losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 00:06:38 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Multiple GMs
In-Reply-To: <199707241847.QAA12464@******.sybase.co.za>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 24-Jul-97 wrote Clen Cook:
>Does anyone have any experience at multiple GMimg?
Yup
>Hmm, like Bruce asks - is there anyone with any ideas out there?
We usualy runnunig multiGM games over a network so the
GM`s can communicate in silence and the players don`t get a clue
about what they are talking.
An other advantage is that the GM`s don`t have to leave their place.
Its quiet expensive but its realy make for a cool tool.
Oh and sometimes even the players are connected too, very good
for private mesages.
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 00:18:24 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.96.970724122606.10957C-100000@*******.cs.uml.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 24-Jul-97 wrote Steven A. Collins:
>->Something else to keep in mind: In order to improve a skill beyond a
>->certain point, you may as a GM require that the player ALWAYS have an
>->instructor. You can only self teach yourself so much.
I disagree here, after a certain level theres noone left to tech you you
must do it then all for yourself.
And BTW, if you need an instructor for lerning how did we
managed our way from the stoneage one?
>I'd like to know what their highest skill levels are
Main character: small unit tactics 23
acting/sim/porn/ 14
ettiquette(con) 13
(street) 12
(yakuza) 11
secondary: unarmed combat(muay thai) 12
athletics 10
stealth 18
enough?
I know I`m a powergamer, so no need to call me a munchkin, because
all my charaters have a very decent background.
And some of them are very old in RL time.
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:23:10 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:09:07 -0400"
<199707242210.SAA11747@****.provide.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
You wrote:
> Again, I need to point out that Geasa are NOT beneficial. They are
> crutches. They don't make it any easier to use magic, they help you to
> catch up to the norm. You shouldn't get anything for having a Geas.
> Having the Geas allows you to continue to use magic. That's its own
> benefit.
And I agree with you here. Where do I seem to be disagreeing? I said
something about geasa 'giving back' the use of an ability, yes? They
allow someone who has lost a Magic point or three to still cast as a magician
with an attribute of 6 (in this proposed rules change), the 'crutch' you speak
of. Rather than keeping access to Initiation open, here Geasa would have a r
immediate effect on all magicians (face it, Initiation is only useful to some).
<snip>
> Why? I mean, that's the path of the burned out mage. Without the one way
> decision, there wouldn't be a path. A burned out mage could turn right
> around and no longer be burned out...even with all his new cyberwear.
> Yuck.
What I was saying was: allow the choice with each new loss of Magic to either
lose it or keep it via a geas. Thus, becoming a burn-out is not a single
decision, rather a gradual series of decisions to not take or not keep certain
Geasa which eventually results in the character losing all his Magic and
becoming a mundane... The Way of the Burnout is a path, not a decision, under
this rule, and I like it better that way, YMMV.
> I doubt it. There's a reason technology and magic conflict with each
> other. Game balance. If you allow folks to keep high magic ratings while
> being stuffed with cyber and bioware, you are asking for trouble.
Perhaps. I believe he was asking for arguments for/against this, I suggested
making some chars (given the variety of the talent on this list, we should see
some different approaches) and see what happens. What of a mage who takes WR3
anyway, and loses the 3 Magic, and uses low-force spells to augment his combat
abilities? Is there something wrong with that? What of Physical Magicians,
who devote someMagic to spellcasting and Summoning, and some to Physad
abilities, are they too unbalanced in your opinion? Such a char soulc have a
power focus to allow the casting of high-force spells still, and be pretty
nasty. I'd like to see how this idea plays out before condemning it.
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:35:49 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:13:58 -0400"
<970724101351_-489911768@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
You wrote:
One change I might propose, in light of possible game-balance problems, could
be to prevent the use of any of the 'lost' Magic points unless all of the Geasa
are being met. For example:
Vermin, a Rat Shaman, has lost three Magic thus far, to a 11mm slug through the
lung, some cyber he picked up while still young and stupid, and to a botched
attempt to heal him by someone who didn't realize he was magical... He now
carries three geasa to keep his mojo up to snuff: Time(night), Gesture, and
Fasting. So, if he's eaten in the last 24 hours, can't gesture (or doesn't
care to at the time) or if it's daylight out, he can't use those 3 'lost'
points. If he meets all three geasa, then he has his full 6 Magic at his
ruthless disposal.
This system makes the geasa more of a burden, since they all must be met
simultaneously to keep from losing the use of those magic points, the 'crutch'
gets more and more rickety the more it tries to support. Also, if you were to
choose to not keep all your lost Magic via geasa, it becomes easier on you to
fulfill them all (the seductiveness of the Way of the Burnout). Example:
Vermin decides that keeping up the Time geas is too much trouble, often enough
he's caught in the drek in daylight (he's on the run from Aztechnology, and
having a basically rotten string of luck), so he drops the Time geas
(permanently, mind you); his max Magic, with the geasa is now a 5, when both
Gesture and Fasting have been met, otherwise it's a 3.
*sigh* Sorry that took so much to say, but hopefully it's clear. :)
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:46:15 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Multiple GMs
In a message dated 97-07-24 11:04:28 EDT, fro@***.AB.CA writes:
>
> I've never tried more than one GM a session, but I would advise you to not
> try rotating GM's. All my friends do that for other games, and nothing
> ever gets done, because they aren't competent enough to tie plot threads
> together. Of course, you may be more competent :)
>
>
This is what we keep doing here, but it requires a lot of collaboration on
Mike and mine own parts. It also draws the line on "player knowledge" a lot.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:48:18 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Multiple GMs
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:46:15 -0400"
<970724184459_1280563500@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
You wrote:
> In a message dated 97-07-24 11:04:28 EDT, fro@***.AB.CA writes:
> >
> > I've never tried more than one GM a session, but I would advise you to not
> > try rotating GM's. All my friends do that for other games, and nothing
> > ever gets done, because they aren't competent enough to tie plot threads
> > together. Of course, you may be more competent :)
> >
> >
> This is what we keep doing here, but it requires a lot of collaboration on
> Mike and mine own parts. It also draws the line on "player knowledge" a
lot.
I was part of a campaign in high school that ran for three years or so, with
four different players assuming the GM role, in varying amounts, and for the
most part it went very well. Even long-term plots, like Aztechnology's
continuing hunt for several of the characters, etc., worked out quote well,
though keeping a unifying 'theme' in such a campaign would be decidedly
difficult. Varying GM styles are nice, though, and it gives everyone a chance
to play (a big plus, imo). We share-GM'ed AD&D, SR, and other games, though
CoC was my province alone (worked better since the other players had read no
Lovecraft at all :).
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 19:00:40 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa -Reply
losthalo wrote:
>One change I might propose, in light of
>possible game-balance problems, could be to
>prevent the use of any of the 'lost' Magic points
>unless all of the Geasa are being met. For
> example: <snip example>
Ah, a suggestion I LIKE! Being seriously burnt
is now a serious pain in the butt, and there is an
incentive to turn down Gaesa. There is still no
incentive to revoke that very last Gaese, but thats
a minor flaw IMHO.
Double-Domed Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 19:11:07 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Hallucinogens in SR (In Character Mode Stuff)
In a message dated 97-07-24 16:55:31 EDT, kristlingweird@*********.COM
(Kristling the Weird) writes:
> > *grabs SR rulebook, looks up wendigo* I think I need to get some kind of
> > steel weapon and a couple of sunlight bulbs soon...
> >
> Gee, gurth.... You want me to use my "Blow Up Weindigos" spell?
>
A Whipcrack, like a sensual toy, snaps clearly, "get back you nasty people"
another whipcrack "get back, (holding the snarling beast at bay) "he's only a
little boy...."
-Keith (wonder's who'll get this joke)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 19:13:17 -0500
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From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa -Reply
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 24 Jul 1997 19:00:40 -0500"
<s3d7a655.071@********.dragonsys.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
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You wrote:
> losthalo wrote:
> >One change I might propose, in light of
> >possible game-balance problems, could be to
> >prevent the use of any of the 'lost' Magic points
> >unless all of the Geasa are being met. For
> > example: <snip example>
> Ah, a suggestion I LIKE! Being seriously burnt
> is now a serious pain in the butt, and there is an
> incentive to turn down Gaesa. There is still no
> incentive to revoke that very last Gaese, but thats
> a minor flaw IMHO.
Sure there is, the reason that the burn-out eventually becomes a mundane:
the Magic no longer pulls its weight! One more point or two of cyber usually
outweighs a Magic of 1 or 2, even if you've got that one geas keeping it at a 3
when the geas is met.
Glad to be of service, as I like this far better than the old geasa rules, and
would like to see it make its way in. :)
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 19:17:49 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
In a message dated 97-07-24 17:50:30 EDT, KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU
writes:
> > True sexually xmitted diseases should be a real concern for characters
> > living low lifestyles or less but I try to keep most aspects of
> > sexuality out of my game. The reason, as the GM i just can't
> > realistically roleplay a woman who the character is trying to "score"
> > with.
>
> Umm... you do realize that STDs have nothing to do with social class,
right?
> I'm fairly sure the Low lifestyle could support buying condoms. I
> sympathize
> with the 'not able to roleplay willing-or-not-so-willing females', though.
> *shrug*
>
I think, but am not certain, that the idea was that people with lower
lifestyles -tend- to have a more sexually active life, even if the quality or
control is poorly defined (sorry, those are studies found in Psychology,
Journal of American Medicine, and GQ (though I forget the year on the
latter).).
As to "playing out the female", I guess that means that I have an edge to
this one. A phrase I once heard and so far has proven correct...a guy knows
what a guy wants.
-Keith (sorry, this has been building for a while)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 16:23:25 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: [GC] Granite's game at Gen Con
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Just got my Gen Con badge and tickets today! Yay...had to share. :o)
Anyways, one of the tickets is for the S/R Drive in the Country
tourney. I had been under the impression this was Granite's game,
however the ticket lists Jill Lucas as GM.
Anyone else get in on the game and have the same on their ticket, or
know if anything is up?
I know Granite would be the best to ask on this, but I think he's gone
for a few days ain't he?
Just curious.
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 19:25:04 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
In a message dated 97-07-24 18:22:13 EDT, barbie@**********.COM writes:
> disagree here, after a certain level theres noone left to tech you you
> must do it then all for yourself.
> And BTW, if you need an instructor for lerning how did we
> managed our way from the stoneage one?
There is a song performed by "Enigma" with the phrase, "we can only be
reminded of what we have forgotten" or some such (I don't have the CD in the
Audiostation at the moment).
> >I'd like to know what their highest skill levels are
>
> Main character: small unit tactics 23
> acting/sim/porn/ 14
Oh god I can see it now (actually, I've had a few players with character and
these skills...hey Barbie, where's your Seduction Skill? A cat shaman I once
knew would have considered you an amateur.
> ettiquette(con) 13
> (street) 12
> (yakuza) 11
>
> secondary: unarmed combat(muay thai) 12
> athletics 10
> stealth 18
>
> enough?
Actually, depends on your point of view...Victor considered Binder's
Enchanting Skill to be high for -his game-, so I am certain that some/many
will consider the above frighteningly high. Hell, for Binder-Uncensored, the
above are pretty fair to outright excellent.
>
> I know I`m a powergamer, so no need to call me a munchkin, because
> all my charaters have a very decent background.
> And some of them are very old in RL time.
> -
Same here
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 01:10:06 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Hallucinogens in SR
In-Reply-To: <970724165706_1547677616@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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At 24-Jul-97 wrote James R. Crandall:
>Some really interesting items there, especially the awakened forms of
>various plants.
Yeah I know my elfen buddie starts collecting catnip(awakened)
after he discovered it in the netbook.
Keeps me real soft.
--
Barbie the-druged-panther-shapshifter
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 01:13:14 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
In-Reply-To: <01ILMGGT4D829I9638@******.acs.muohio.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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At 24-Jul-97 wrote Wendy Wanders, Subject 117:
[snip snap snup]
> Some test characters might illustrate
>whether this would disrupt balance, maybe some list members could work up a
>few (trying hard as they can to min/max them in this direction?) and see what
we
>get?
Consider me at work :-)
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 16:33:40 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Super Tuesday spoilers...
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
P
A
C
E
I
S
Y
O
U
R
F
R
I
E
N
D
:o)
---David Buehrer wrote:
>
> Also, what with corporations getting creative about disposing of
> toxic waste I thing that's a perfect opportunity to start off an
> adventure by poisoning a PC (or friend of) and having the PCs hunt
> down who is responsible.
There's something quite similar to this as one of the Super Tuesday
adventures. Nasty stuff... EGM
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:10:13 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---Gurth wrote:
>
> David Buehrer said on 7:14/23 Jul 97...
>
> > I missed that line also <grump>. And I agree with Gurth. Each
> > disease should have a description of it's symptoms throughout the
> > course of the disease, it's method of communication, at which
> > point(s) during the course of the infection its communicable, etc.
> > And, whether it's treatable, and how.
> >
> > I think I'm going to do some RL research on this. Look forward to
> > something in the future :)
>
> How many times do PCs or important NPCs get infected by a disease in
SR
> anyway? Because that's the only time this sort of info will come in
handy.
Well, there is all them nice little critters with the Pestilence
power, and I can think off hand of a couple of pre-printed adventures
that deal with bio-hazard/disease.
In fact, just a few weeks ago I had two characters come down with the
vitas-type disease after succumbing to the Pesitlence of a Kraken.
<EGMG>
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:52:50 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
MIME-Version: 1.0
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---Steve Kenson wrote:
>
> An initiate who takes a geas ordeal essentially accepts a limit on
the bonus
> Magic point provided by the initiation. If the initiate follows the
geas,
> they get the Magic point, if they break it, they lose it until they
live up
> to the geas again.
So does a mage who is able to shake off one of his current geas at the
time of initiation get the lost magic point(s) back? I mean in
addition to the normal magic point he is already gaining through
initiation.
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:11:26 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Two quick questions...
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---Rob Davies wrote:
>
> Can anyone explain the phrase, 'Once a player has
> allocated Magic Rating Points to "buy" a power, that
> power cannot be changed, but it can be upgraded by
> spending more Magic Points at a later time.' (Page 126,
> SRII.)
>
> I understand the killing hands S->D example but where
> do the 'more Magic points' come from?
>
> How can a physical adept improve & gain new Phys. Ad.
> abilities? Increasing their magic score is not allowed,
> Do they just use karma as magic points?
Physads gain additional points to the Magic attribute through
initiation the same as the other magically talented. These new magic
points can then be allocated towards purchasing/upgrading abilities.
> On a different topic, which SR book contain info on
> grading clinics (detla, etc)?
Your most complete description of alpha/beta/delta clinics will be in
Cybertechnology. Though alpha/beta first appeared in Street Sam
Catalog.
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 21:28:06 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 12:18:34 -0400 "Steven A. Collins"
<scollins@**.UML.EDU> writes:
<< The problem is if you consider a skill of 6 in unarmed combat to be
equivilant to a black belt in some martial art and 9 to be on the
level of Kwai Chang Cain from the Tv series Kung Fu then it would only
take a normal person about 10 years to reach that level of skill and a
Shadowrunner about 2 to 3 years. I think a skill of 8 should be a
black belt and 15 should be where a true master of the martial art
should be.>>
The problem with your presumption is that it will take them about 10
years if that's *all* they do in that ten years. If they don't 'spend'
any karma improving other skills, getting new ones, etc. And since a lot
of the choice on where to put your karma would happen on a sub-concious
level, by the time such a person gets done, they'd have learned Unarmed
Combat (Kung Fu) (specialization whatever) of 5/8/10, Etiquette (Martial
Artists) 4, etc, etc. You'd probably have 3-4 new skills in the process,
as well as improving others. And you'll have improved your physical
attributes, too. The truth is that this is a _game_. The fact that things
don't always seem to stack up, doesn't necessarily matter (unless having
a perfect representation of reality is your goal, in which case, you're
playing the wrong game;). Initiates are rather rare, too (I/we estimated
that there about 3800 in Seattle a while back) but they get tossed around
like nobody's business:) Let's face it: average people get more than 5
Karma a year, they just don't *use* all of it on useful stuff.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 16:12:47 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Skye Comstock <bilbo@****.NWLINK.COM>
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
In-Reply-To: <yam7145.1227.136868448@****.amigaworld.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Main character: small unit tactics 23
> acting/sim/porn/ 14
> ettiquette(con) 13
> (street) 12
> (yakuza) 11
Well... Geez. (S)he is the greatest theorist in history, knows how
to make the best porn out there, and has enough etiquette for
everyone and their brother...
>secondary: unarmed combat(muay thai) 12
> athletics 10
> stealth 18
This guy walks around in a muy thai combat stance all the time,
hops a lot, but makes no noise and never sweats... Snazzy. ;)
>enough?
At least there wasn't anything high than 30.
>I know I`m a powergamer, so no need to call me a munchkin, because
>all my charaters have a very decent background.
>And some of them are very old in RL time.
Your characters are more akin to gods... :)
-Skye
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:42:13 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:35:02 -0500 losthalo
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU> writes:
<big ol' snipperoonie>
<<You will see far more cybered mages, most likely, since they can lose
magic to cyber and 'get it back' with geasa. Some test characters might
illustrate whether this would disrupt balance, maybe some list members
could work up a few (trying hard as they can to min/max them in this
direction?) and see what we get? And think of what this could do for
Physical Mages (if your campaign allows them...). Mages tend to avoid
things like Wired Reflexes because of the high Magic losses, but with
this rule, you might see a lot of sammie/mage amalgams (not that that
would be bad, they might still remain pretty balanced).>>
Okay, here goes (I used rules _as_written_, not necessarily as intended,
and did not limit myself to the main book:)
Name:
Race: Human
Adept: Hermetic Sorcerer
ATTRIBUTES
----------
Body: 3/4
Quickness: 3
Strength: 3
Charisma: 1
Intelligence: 4/5
Willpower: 6
Body Index: .8
Essence: 1 (1.8, if you use the bioware subtracts from Magic house rule)
Magic 1 (3)
With geasa, Magic Rating is a full 6 (8) :)
SKILLS
------
Armed combat/Edged weapons [3/5(7)]
Firearms [5]
Sorcery/Spellcasting [3/5]
Unarmed combat/Martial arts style [2/4]
Etiquette(Street) [1]
Magical theory/Design/Hermetic [1/3/5]
CYBERWARE
---------
Dermal Plating 1
Smartlink II
Eye Cyber replac.
Eye Optical Mag 2
Eye Rangefinder
Eye Thermographic
Wired Reflexes 2
BIOWARE
---------
Cerebral Booster 1
Trauma Damper
SPELLS
------
Increase +4 Strength (1)
Increase +3 Quickness (1)
Personal Combat Sense (1)
Hellblast (5) (reusable fetish)
Fire Bolt (3) (ditto)
Mana Bolt (3) (same here)
Improved Invisibility (3) (expendable fetish)
Flame Aura (4) (reusable fetish)
Heal (3) (reusable fetish, exclusive)
GEAR
----
2 Savalette Guardians (w/ 30 rounds Explosive ammo <kaboom!>)
Ares Alpha Combat Gun (w/ 50 rounds APDS ammo, 8 Defensive HE
minigrenades, 8 Neurostun minigrenades)
Light Military Armor
Power Focus 2
Weapon Focus 2,Reach 1
Spell Lock (Personal Combat Sense, 4 successes)
Spell Lock (Increased Strength +4)
Fetish Focus, Rating 1
4 Expendable Detection Fetishes
5 Expendable Illusion Fetishes
Reusable Combat Fetish
Reusable Manipulation Fetish
Reusable Healing Fetish
3 Contacts
Edges and Flaws (remember, I said 'as written' :)
---------------
Astral Sight
Combat Monster
Vindictive
I don't know that the Chromium Mage there is all that munch (powerful,
but nearly crippled by the low physical attributes), but that's what I
came up with. I would have sprung for a Panther Cannon:) but I was on a
budget, and really wanted the foci:):)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:45:26 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Karmic Winds (was :Re: Skill Levels) (Warning- LONG)
In a message dated 97-07-24 20:53:32 EDT, MikeE@*********.COM (Mike Elkins)
writes:
Just a precursor...what I wrote after the following statement is long, and
some will construe as "flame", but it is in fact something from the heart, my
Heart. I guess you could call it "My Thesis" on Karma and it's power. And
it entails a bit of the understanding of how that "Power" is aquired. It is
something that was told to me by a guy in northeastern Arizona.
Victor, if you are reading, I invite you to read deeply. Duncan, you as
well, you can learn a great deal about "Binder-in-the-Dark" this way.
>
> The problem with you argument is that 20 karma
> a year is WAY above what an "Average" person
> might "get" through everyday life. I might award
> a gifted college student about 5 karma a year, an
> average student about 2 or 3.
>
> Double-Domed Mike
>
And then the problem would be just how motivated you are, they are, we are.
Mike, I understand your need or desire to see a controlled state of "power"
within the scope of Shadowrun, or problem within the state of any role
playing game.
I applaud you sincerely,
However;
I have more ambition than that, more patience, more drive. Those things
alone are worth far more than 2 or 3 points a year, 5 if I go to college (NOW
that is arrogance, college the moment of life's highest, greatest point).
College is merely one step, and though it is a big one, it is not
necessarily the largest in life. Wait until your parents sleep at -your-
house. Wait until your wife/lover/husband says "I Do" and it means Forever.
Wait until your son/daughter says "I Love You." Wait until you bid fairwell
Forever in this light. Wait until I cross into the Light of Creation itself.
Success is measurable in ways that college can't even begin to explain. It
can only point the way.
Were I to be an actual Shadowrun Individual, within the Scope of Shadowrun by
your own definition, I would truly have discovered what the term oppression
means. I understand that SR (and many role playing games these days) have
created a "dark scenario", one where the "average joe" is never going
to
amount to crap.
Have you ever seen pointilism in action Mike? Where an entire picture is
formed by the smallest of dots. Taken as a single entity, their singular
image is uncertain and ill-determined. But, when moved into perspective,
taken as par of a greater image, the one dot on the wall becomes joined by an
untold, uncountable, number of dots. You and I and every other -THING- on
this list or this world are parts of those dots.
Now enters understanding, a comprehension of self. That would give this
"dot" some backlighting, perhaps brighten it up to an apprehensible point.
It would indicate that the "dot" has aquired a sense of self, a sense of
self empowement. The ability to motivate its' own path and maneuver along a
slightly better destiny.
Now, lets suppose the light were to be reflected upon the dots that surround
the first dot. Each of those dots in return gain a brilliance to their
shadow. Perhaps this "Karmic Fire" can be ignited within those dots as well,
perhaps not. But it will happen to some, and to those some, the fires will
grow proportionately. Hence, this one region of the overall picture is
brightened. It is enhanced in its' magnitude and its' impact.
Now the fire is burning, but to make it a furnace, something incredibly
intense, you have to go to distances. Yes, I do very much realize that such
intensity is often unseen in the average dot, hence the reason the overall
picture often seems so shadowy, so bleak. But that one dot, the one that
started it all, is no longer alone likely. Sure, He or She may believe they
are, but often their fire's send sparks in ripples, across a vast sea of
immeasurable distance. But those ripples will travel none-the-less.
Suddenly, the fire becomes self-burning, it has taken on a life completely
its own, but something that can only be witnessed from "a far" or "a
distance" (Bette Midler's song sort of has the idea). And it takes someone
to step back that distance, while retaining a firm grasp on the paper itself,
in order to learn from it and to gain a better idea on how to grow.
-=-=-=-=-
Now what does all of this have to do with Shadowrun the Game? Any Game? It
has to do with the rewards the Player is given for development. It has to do
with how enlightened or understandable the rest of the group, GM and fellow
Players, really are. If a player, even one player, can grasp their own
character and really "run with it", then the light of that part of your, the
GM's, picture will be brightened that much more. Hopefully that enlightening
will reflect upon the rest of the group, even yourself as the referee as
well. It will go beyond developing a character of integrity, it will go the
lengths of developing a game that -IS- integrity.
Yes, I have called an overdramaticist, and yes I will admit to it. But I
have also been privileged with the knowledge that I have ignited a few of
those dots around me. The character's I make, no matter the power level, are
carrying part of that fire within them. Occasionally, it takes a good puff
of inspirational wind to keep it going, but it will go on for as long as I
can.
Yes, I have been called a Powergamer and much worse (Munchkin is just the
beginning actually folks). My response after all these years has become
something of the following:
"My Fire comes from within, be it my Soul or my Passion, I care not. Only
that it is there. If it frightens you I am sorry, for it need not be feared.
Perhaps it is because you have failed to see that it is merely a reflection
of the Fire that burns within us all. To extinguish it is to declare defeat
on life itself.
Perhaps it is because you are afraid of being burned, but like the Phoenix,
it is merely the ultimate expression in the Cycle Eternal. It will only burn
and destroy what does not grow, and from those ashes it will give birth to
new hope and new meaning.
But whatever the reason, know that it is how and whom I am. I can stand
completely upon the strength of my convictions alone, though a hand from a
friend is always grateful. My fire's have been found and fanned for many
years now. My hand is open, -My Dot- is Shining. Join Me?"
-=-=-=-=-
Now I admit that I probably sound more than lunatic, beyond anything that TC
or Victor have barraged at each other or anyone else for that matter. It
doesn't matter how little or much karma, experience, money, etcetera, is
handed out at the end of a given campaign, only that it is given.
Please understand, none of the preceding is an attack, it is a statement. It
is a summary of opinion. I would dare say it is a Writ of Philosophy, but
I'd be certain that los(th)alo would get involved on a lack thereof. (-wink-)
If anyone wants to believe that karma is a limited thing, then perhaps you
haven't seen the Karmic Wind in action. I have I am happy to say. Next time
it moves alongside me, I will whisper into it your name. Then maybe you'll
hear mine.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:51:51 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
In a message dated 97-07-24 21:22:27 EDT, daddyjim@**********.COM writes:
>
> So does a mage who is able to shake off one of his current geas at the
> time of initiation get the lost magic point(s) back? I mean in
> addition to the normal magic point he is already gaining through
> initiation.
>
According to the rules, that is how one could interpret it, yes. Perhaps it
would be better to say that via Initiatory Quest, the individual in question
can learn to function more fluidly, more efficiently, and thus "rebalance"
his/her talents into a truer state of being.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:51:37 -0400
Reply-To: Philos@****.Net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sir Philos Nex <philos@****.NET>
Organization: Me, Myself and I
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Greets everyone... my first post in this mailing list! :)
ke Elkins wrote:
>
> <snip: how high is high for skill levels?>
>
> The problem with you argument is that 20 karma
> a year is WAY above what an "Average" person
> might "get" through everyday life. I might award
> a gifted college student about 5 karma a year, an
> average student about 2 or 3.
>
> Double-Domed Mike
Basically what you're saying is that players are not normal in any
respect.. but that should be nothing new to anybody! :) In the SR2 book
(or is it another book..hmmm) they even mention the "mythical average"
stat being 3..we all know that that's never going to happen :) Hell,
most of the stats in the SR2 book for the archtypes make most of them
put Sylvester Stallone <sp> look puny :)
I disagree with your Karma points there for students but that's really
not important (seriously, the average university student covers so many
topics that 2 or 3 for an average one is kinda insulting..)
I've never known, in any game system, for player characters to be
considered "normal" or even slightly above normal. They break all logic
and while to some that may be wrong, or unrealistic - to others it's
just fun and people don't want to worry about such things.
--
Andrew Dominas
AKA Sir Philos Nex
3rd Year Honours Business Administration U of Windsor
Jedi Knight
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 03:25:05 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Hallucinogens in SR
In-Reply-To: <199707240946.LAA11313@*****.xs4all.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <199707240946.LAA11313@*****.xs4all.nl>, Gurth
<gurth@******.NL> rambled on endlessly about Hallucinogens in SR
>Bull said on 19:27/23 Jul 97...
>
>> Of course, considering my impending Wendigo-ism (??:)), I LIKE Bloody
>> Meat... gee, DA, Dvixen, Spike, Gurth... You're all starting to look
>> tasty...
>
I may be looking tasty, but believe me, one munch on this dried out
ancient old body and you're going to be spitting me back out again. :)
Unless of course you like chomping on tasteless mummified flesh.
--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 23:10:51 -0400
Reply-To: Philos@****.Net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sir Philos Nex <philos@****.NET>
Organization: Me, Myself and I
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Gossamer wrote:
>
> > Something else to keep in mind: In order to improve a skill
> > beyond a certain point, you may as a GM require that the
> > player ALWAYS have an instructor. You can only self teach
> > yourself so much.
>
> Who got Stephen Hawking from Astrophysics 9 to 10?
> He did. And who got him from 10 to 11? He did.
>
> At the point of being that high... only you can teach yourself,
> IMO...
My friend's in the Canadian Military, and he would definitely agree
with you on that point. He says that there's a point to which training
can take you, the teachers can tell you only so many ways to hold the
gun, where and how to point it, etc. After you have been taught to a
point (say between skill levels 4-8 -this is skilled but not godly in
any manner), this point depends on the skill too, you need to have
experience to get any better. Now up until that point you can learn
faster with a teacher, but people also have to remember the differences
associated with various skills. A doctor or someone in a science
profession would probably need training up to skill levels 8 or 9,
assuming he wasn't a researcher and doing this on his own, which he
would obviously be unable to have things taught to him. :)
--
Andrew Dominas
AKA Sir Philos Nex
3rd Year Honours Business Administration U of Windsor
Jedi Knight
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 23:17:38 -0400
Reply-To: Philos@****.Net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sir Philos Nex <philos@****.NET>
Organization: Me, Myself and I
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Gossamer wrote:
> Most of the people in our group tend to Max there skills
> out (combat type) at 8 or 9. We have found that this is
> a great level at which to play. The best bad guys in our
> world have skills of maybe 11 in their primary 'bad-guyness'
> and 4, 5, and 6's in anything else.
>
> Now, that might get me qualified as a 'low power gamer',
> but our guys still get challenged by street gangs and
> the like, and we run quickly from Toxics.
Myself and my friends like to hold around the 8-9 range.. perhaps an
odd skill at 10 but for the most part a well rounded character is one
more likely to live longer. I'd rather have 8 skills at 6 or 7 than one
skill at 14.. it's better IMHO.
> Most of the characters in the 4 year campaign are at
> about 250-300 Karma. We feel no need to raise the
> max level of skills. We did, however institute a Karma
> to cash rule much like the one in the Companion...
>
> > The problem is it is far to easy under this assumption
> > to reach these "godlike' levels.
>
> It's a question of self control: do you want to regulate
> yourself or not?
I think that if you need to regulate people you should actually look at
your gaming style and find out what's wrong with it.
--
Andrew Dominas
AKA Sir Philos Nex
3rd Year Honours Business Administration U of Windsor
Jedi Knight
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 23:18:15 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hallucinogens in SR
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:25 AM 7/25/97 +0100, Avenger wrote these timeless words:
>In article <199707240946.LAA11313@*****.xs4all.nl>, Gurth
><gurth@******.NL> rambled on endlessly about Hallucinogens in SR
>>Bull said on 19:27/23 Jul 97...
>>
>>> Of course, considering my impending Wendigo-ism (??:)), I LIKE Bloody
>>> Meat... gee, DA, Dvixen, Spike, Gurth... You're all starting to look
>>> tasty...
>>
>
>I may be looking tasty, but believe me, one munch on this dried out
>ancient old body and you're going to be spitting me back out again. :)
>
>Unless of course you like chomping on tasteless mummified flesh.
>
Bahh... It's like eating Beef Jerky... It's just something good to chew
on, and if you season it right... it's even tasty...;];]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 21:28:24 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jak Koke <jkoke@******.UOREGON.EDU>
Subject: Gencon room needed
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Well, I'm doing my best to make it to Gencon this year, and if so, I'll need
crash space. My previous plans fell through so I had decided not to go, but
then I changed my mind. So anyhow, what I'm asking is: does anyone who is
going to Gencon this year have extra crash space?
Please reply by private email. I get the list in digest form and it only
comes once a day.
Thanks in advance.
--Jak
Jak Koke La Jolla, CA
----------------------------------------------------------
I have a new (temporary) web page at:
http://ursula.uoregon.edu/~jkoke
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 00:40:16 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: First session as GM
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> I developed 27 contacts (not bad for 3 PCs, eh?), all with personalities,
> edges, and flaws. I also started an introductory run that Mr. Tinner was
> kind enough to lend me the idea for (Romi-0 and Juli-8). So far, it
seems
> to be going well.
Man ... I just love when these kids call me "Mr. Tinner" ;-P
It makes me sound as old as Pete!
> Here's the question (now that I have bored you to death with background
> information): How do I allow the PCs to live out their lives, with all
> that entails, without boring the other players to death in the meantime?
I
> want to keep them all occupied, but I can only have one serious
> in-character conversation at a time. Any suggestions?
IMO Let this player send you his IC discussions over email, but let him
know that you will NOT be responding to them until the next game session.
That way, you are already prepared for his discussion topics.
It allows you more time to prepare really devious ideas and surprises for
him, and also lets you move through his questions and ideas more rapidly,
without eating up too much of your valuable time.
> 2. I am trying to come up with campaign/adventure/run ideas that do not
> revolve around rare magical artifacts, vampires, raiding megacorps, etc.
I
> want to start the players off with a few simple (generic?) runs that
aren't
> too overwhelming. Then, after a few sessions, I will lay the good stuff
on
> them. ;) I am really short on ideas, but if anyone cares to share their
> ideas or past run experiences with me, I would greatly appreciate it (and
> so would my players, but they wouldn't really be aware of it). :)
You've already heard most of my ideas on this topic, but another one worth
mentioning is making the campaign very personal.
Maybe give the team some rivals, or enemies that they are fighting against.
Another evenly matched runner or criminal group would make a good low level
challenge.
Or perhaps the team is hunted by a group of bounty hunters sent after them
when the botch their first run (which usually happens on first runs!)
Hey, it worked for Han Solo and Jabba didn't it? ;-)
> Ant can give you great power. Ant is beautiful. Ant is clean and
> organized. Ant will reshape the pitiful world we currently live in. Ant
> will clean it up and make it better. Only then will the Earth be a great
> place once again.... :) :) :)
Spoken like a true Evil GM!
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 21:39:30 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Hallucinogens in SR (In Character Mode Stuff)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---"J. Keith Henry" wrote:
>
> A Whipcrack, like a sensual toy, snaps clearly, "get back you nasty
people"
> another whipcrack "get back, (holding the snarling beast at bay)
"he's only a
> little boy...."
> -Keith (wonder's who'll get this joke)
Lost Boys (when Laddy monkeys out, and Star comes to his defense)???
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 21:43:25 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Paff <mikepaff@***.COM>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Okay, here goes (I used rules _as_written_, not necessarily as intended,
>and did not limit myself to the main book:)
>
> With geasa, Magic Rating is a full 6 (8) :)
>
Which 5 geasa did you plan for this character?
>BIOWARE
>---------
>Cerebral Booster 1
>Trauma Damper
>
An official ruling needs to be made as to how the Trauma Damper affects
spellcasters (does it offset drain, is there any risk to Magic like
stimpatches). Hopefully it will be addressed in SR3.
>I don't know that the Chromium Mage there is all that munch (powerful,
>but nearly crippled by the low physical attributes), but that's what I
>came up with. I would have sprung for a Panther Cannon:) but I was on a
>budget, and really wanted the foci:):)
>
On the subject of foci, with the variable Magic attribute that mages
would have under the proposed change, which value is used to determine
focus addiction?
>
>-Canthros
Mike Paff
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 00:44:38 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Collins" <scollins@**.UML.EDU>
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
In-Reply-To: <01ILMGL7L73Y9I9638@******.acs.muohio.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 24 Jul 1997, Wendy Wanders, Subject 117 wrote:
->You wrote:
->> True sexually xmitted diseases should be a real concern for characters
->> living low lifestyles or less but I try to keep most aspects of
->> sexuality out of my game. The reason, as the GM i just can't
->> realistically roleplay a woman who the character is trying to "score"
->> with.
->
->Umm... you do realize that STDs have nothing to do with social class, right?
->I'm fairly sure the Low lifestyle could support buying condoms. I sympathize
->with the 'not able to roleplay willing-or-not-so-willing females', though.
->*shrug*
True social class has little to do with it, but education,
cleanlieness, and access to medical care do. A wealthy person will
move in circles of people who better educated, can take a bath every
day, and have access to the best medicine money can buy. A person
living a low lifestyle can maybe take a shower, will probably not be
able to read, and any medical care they get comes from the free clinic
down the street. These are just generalities but the exceptions
(especially in Shadowrun) will be rare.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 02:05:55 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Area Spells
Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU> writes:
>Steve, could you also make sure that Area effect spells are cleared
>up? Do they center on one person? What happens if that person
>resists it? Why center on a person? How does the whole aura-sync
>thing work when you have twenty targets?
I shall certainly do what I can. One of the prime goals of SR3 is clarifying
things, after all. To give you an idea of my current thoughts (all IMHO):
1) Area-effect spells DO NOT have to be centered on a person. The caster
centers the spell wherever is desired. All valid targets within the radius of
the spell's effect are affected. The key word here is VALID targets. Which
brings us to:
2) A valid target is one which the caster: a) can see or assense, unaided by
technology and, b) shares a "state of existence" with (either physical or
astral). So a physical caster can only target physical things he can see with
his normal vision, an astral caster can only target astral things he can
assense and a dual or astrally perceiving caster can target either.
I think the whole "synchronize auras" stuff is bogus, or at least badly
explained. I call the process of determining whether or not a target is valid
(as given above) forming a magical link between the caster can the target. If
the caster can fulfill the conditions, the link is formed and the spell can
be cast.
For area-effect spells, the magical link is formed with each potential target
in the radius of the spell. If a particular target is not valid, the spell
does not affect it, but has its normal effect on the remaining targets.
Example: Talon tosses a manaball at a security mage, two corp guards and an
elemental the mage has hanging around in astral space. Talon can see the mage
and one guard. The other guard is up against the wall on the other side of
the open doorway. The elemental is hovering near the sec-mage in astral form.
Talon targets using his normal vision. He can see the mage and one guard
unaided and targets his manaball in their midst. The elemental and the other
guard are within the radius of the spell, but they are not affected because
Talon cannot see them and therefor cannot form a magical link with them. The
mage and the corp guard make Spell Resistance Tests while the elemental and
the other guard are unaffected.
If Talon used Astral Perception to target his spell, he could have affected
the mage, one guard AND the elemental since he would have been able to
assense the spirit and would have shared a state with it (both astral), but
that would make Talon vulnerable to astral combat. The corp guard behind the
wall (but still within the radius) still wouldn't be affected because Talon
still can't see him.
This is how all area-effect combat spells (and other area-type spells like
Chaos) work. The only exception is Damaging Manipulations, which create a
real, physical medium the caster directs at the targets. The blast radius of
a damaging manipulation affects all physical targets in the area of effect,
whether the caster can see them or not.
I hope that helps. The final version for my SR3 proposal should be a bit more
coherent. That was rather off-the-cuff. Comments are, of course, welcome.
Steve K.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 02:05:58 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
losthalo wrote:
>One change I might propose, in light of possible game-balance problems,
could
>be to prevent the use of any of the 'lost' Magic points unless all of the
Geasa
>are being met. For example: <example snipped>
Interesting idea. It definitely forces some tough decisions on the burnouts.
I'll give it some thought. What does everyone else think?
Steve K.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 02:06:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>:
>So does a mage who is able to shake off one of his current geas at the
>time of initiation get the lost magic point(s) back? I mean in
>addition to the normal magic point he is already gaining through
>initiation.
Most likely, under the proposed sustem, characters would not be able shed
geasa upon initiating. The only way to lose the geas would be to also
sacrifice the point of Magic, putting yourself on the slippery slope to
burning out because of your inability to maintain the "magical lifestyle" you
need to maintain your powers. Of course, a character could always try to use
Initiation to try to stay ahead of the loss, getting rid of "tainted" (ie.,
geas-bound) Magic points and replacing them with "clean" (unrestricted) Magic
gained from Initiation. This is like running the Red Queen's race "running
and running just to stay in place."
Steve K.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 01:40:52 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Here's a Chromium Mage (Burnout) for ya...
Attributes (50 pts)
-------------------
Body: 3(6) Reaction: 6(10)
Quickness: 6 Initiative: 6+1D6(10+3D6)
Strength: 2 1 point impact armor
Charisma: 1 Combat Pool: 9
Intelligence: 6 Sorcery Pool: 6
Willpower: 6
Skills (10 pts)
---------------
Sorcery: 6
Magic Theory: 3
Hermetic: 5
Magician: Hermetic Mage (20 pts)
Resources: 400,000 nuyen (20 pts)
Cyberware
---------
Wired Reflexes 2 (3.00 essence)
Dermal Sheath 2 (1.40 essence)
Bioware
-------
Trauma Damper (0.40 body index)
Spells
------
Mana Missile 6 (drain 3M physical)
Stun Bolt 6 (drain 2S physical)
Treat 6 [drain 3(wound level) physical, target 7]
Redirect 6 [drain (1/2 spell force)(spell damage code - 1 DC) physical]
Power Dart 6 (drain 4L physical)
Equipment (135,000)
---------
Secure Jacket (dikoted) 6/4 armor rating
Helmet (dikoted) 2/2 armor rating
Forearm Guards (dikoted) 1/3 armor rating (only in melee)
Large Riot Shield (dikoted) 3/1 armor rating (not in melee)
>>>>[That's an 11/8 armor factor, 9/10 in melee, 8/7 without
toys]<<<<
DocWagon Platinum
As much high lifestyle as can be afforded...
Not only does he cause an enormous amount of damage, he gets to do it often,
can dodge anything shot at him with ease, and (should by some miracle, he be
hit) handle damage if it does get through. Not too shabby, eh? Fully
legal, too. Not a munchkinous bone in his body. Didn't need any edges or
flaws to do this. Didn't need any optional tweaks. He just plain rocks.
As this character gains in karma, he'll increase few things....
1) Sorcery - for increased sorcery pool
2) Spell Forces - for irresistable spells
3) Spells - As many high-force/low-drain spells as possible (my fave is a
force 12+ manadart)
4) Stats - gotta raise Body, so he's nigh-impossible to hurt, and Strength,
so he can eventually wear dikoted heavy military armor...
Physical drain is actually a good thing for this character (he can Treat
it). The spells' drains are generally so low anyway that he should resist
them with ease. Then if your GM allows for some serious rule-bending... **I
WOULD NOT ALLOW THIS!!**... the Trauma Damper helps him resist drain further
through it's ability to lower TNs to resist pain by 2. After all, physical
drain is nothing if not pain (btw, **I WOULD NOT ALLOW THIS!!**). So drains
go from 3 TN to 2 TN (can't go lower) and that Treat suddenly becomes much
(33.4%) easier to cast if needed. If that's allowed, then pump up the Mana
Missile to a Mana Bolt and the Power Dart to a Power Bolt.
Did I mention that I would not allow Trauma Dampers to do that? Well, I
wouldn't...
Granted, this character represents perhaps the pinnacle of powergaming for
his sort. It was intended to be such though, and I have no intentions
whatsoever of playing such a beast (though I would happily play a cybered
mage, this one doesn't thrill me). For those of you lacking in moral fiber,
give the guy a shot and I guarantee that (if you follow the guidelines for
the character) you won't be disappointed in the results. It's also fairly
easy to convert this creature to the priority-based system should that be
your wish.
Enjoy at your own risk...
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 02:49:11 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Steve Kenson once dared to write,
>The latest idea involves geasa.
<snips the rest>
I like the concept. I think we have a winner. Each point should be
made by decision if it is restricted by a geasa. I'm unsure of the all or
nothing approach on multiple geasa, I'm leaning for the point per geas
option.
The only question is how it affects burnout characters at CharGen?
It wouldn't have affected Waif much but how about other Characters? Does
the burnout have to take a geas for each point lost or for just as many
as he wants to? I also think the essence 0 magic 1 question should be
answered on whether or not it could exist. With the newest incarnation
of geasa this situation has a greater chance at becoming more frequent.
The only other question (OK I lied) is what qualifies for breaking
the geasa enough that the point will never be recovered?
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 04:21:16 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Deosyne <deosyne@*********.NET>
Organization: The War Machine
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Lady Jestyr wrote:
>
> > You HAVE to use Willpower instead of your skill, unless you have access to
> > things a weapon focus (presumably that must be bonded to you, although
> > SRII fails to mention that) or something that attacks the spirit's
> > Vulnerability weakness (for example, using a flamethrower on a water
> > elemental).
>
> ... or a baseball bat covered with insecticide... that's the only way we
> lived through bug city.
>
> Lady Jestyr
>
My players in a Bug City campaign coated themselves in DEET (a no
bullshit bug repellant) during a hive attack. Had to give em the target
# mods for that; I failed to consider the idea myself :/ Gotta watch
them players, I swear! :)
Deosyne
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 03:23:11 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Area Spells
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> From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
> Date: Friday, July 25, 1997 2:05 AM
> I shall certainly do what I can. One of the prime goals of SR3 is
clarifying
> things, after all. To give you an idea of my current thoughts (all IMHO):
> 1) Area-effect spells DO NOT have to be centered on a person. The caster
> centers the spell wherever is desired. All valid targets within the
radius of
> the spell's effect are affected. The key word here is VALID targets.
Which
> brings us to:
So far so good. :)
> 2) A valid target is one which the caster: a) can see or assense, unaided
by
> technology and, b) shares a "state of existence" with (either physical or
> astral). So a physical caster can only target physical things he can see
with
> his normal vision, an astral caster can only target astral things he can
> assense and a dual or astrally perceiving caster can target either.
Still going strong. :)
> I think the whole "synchronize auras" stuff is bogus, or at least badly
> explained. I call the process of determining whether or not a target is
valid
> (as given above) forming a magical link between the caster can the
target. If
> the caster can fulfill the conditions, the link is formed and the spell
can
> be cast.
Yup, that's pretty much what synchronizing auras is. However, the whole
synchronizing auras thing is pretty much an unnecessary use of terminology
to explain something that doesn't really need to be explained in that much
detail (funny, that's not the case with most magical stuff in SR...) ;)
Your simplified version is much easier to understand.
> For area-effect spells, the magical link is formed with each potential
target
> in the radius of the spell. If a particular target is not valid, the
spell
> does not affect it, but has its normal effect on the remaining targets.
Cool.
> Example: Talon tosses a manaball at a security mage, two corp guards and
an
> elemental the mage has hanging around in astral space. Talon can see the
mage
> and one guard. The other guard is up against the wall on the other side
of
> the open doorway. The elemental is hovering near the sec-mage in astral
form.
> Talon targets using his normal vision. He can see the mage and one guard
> unaided and targets his manaball in their midst. The elemental and the
other
> guard are within the radius of the spell, but they are not affected
because
> Talon cannot see them and therefor cannot form a magical link with them.
The
> mage and the corp guard make Spell Resistance Tests while the elemental
and
> the other guard are unaffected.
Question: why isn't the Elemental included? I understand your reasoning,
but astral perception is used (albeit briefly) during spellcasting in order
to synch...er target all the beings in the area. Thus, during that time,
all the targets of the spell are established...wouldn't this include the
Elemental then?
> If Talon used Astral Perception to target his spell, he could have
affected
> the mage, one guard AND the elemental since he would have been able to
> assense the spirit and would have shared a state with it (both astral),
but
> that would make Talon vulnerable to astral combat. The corp guard behind
the
> wall (but still within the radius) still wouldn't be affected because
Talon
> still can't see him.
See above. I am not sure I agree with you on this point.
> This is how all area-effect combat spells (and other area-type spells
like
> Chaos) work. The only exception is Damaging Manipulations, which create a
> real, physical medium the caster directs at the targets. The blast radius
of
> a damaging manipulation affects all physical targets in the area of
effect,
> whether the caster can see them or not.
Makes sense.
> I hope that helps. The final version for my SR3 proposal should be a bit
more
> coherent. That was rather off-the-cuff. Comments are, of course, welcome.
Well, there you have them. ;)
> Steve K
Justin :)
.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 04:58:42 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Deosyne <deosyne@*********.NET>
Organization: The War Machine
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
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Steve Kenson wrote:
>
> losthalo wrote:
> >One change I might propose, in light of possible game-balance problems,
> could
> >be to prevent the use of any of the 'lost' Magic points unless all of the
> Geasa
> >are being met. For example: <example snipped>
>
> Interesting idea. It definitely forces some tough decisions on the burnouts.
> I'll give it some thought. What does everyone else think?
>
> Steve K.
Love it! Mage decides that those wiz new cybereyes with all the options
would be worth flopping his hands around while casting, cool. One point
lost if he can't gesture, five's still pretty good. Course, some wires'd
be nice... Now he's got to satisfy three geasa or cast at Magic of
three. Or dump a geasa and be happy with a five and two geasa (and of
course his wiz cyberwear). Makes the whole geasa issue much more
complex. More metal means less juice (it's a bitch to try and satisfy
three geasa at once!) Go with it. :)
Deosyne
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:54:27 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caun Haskins <caun@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Love it! Mage decides that those wiz new cybereyes with all the options
> would be worth flopping his hands around while casting, cool. One point
> lost if he can't gesture, five's still pretty good. Course, some wires'd
> be nice... Now he's got to satisfy three geasa or cast at Magic of
> three. Or dump a geasa and be happy with a five and two geasa (and of
> course his wiz cyberwear). Makes the whole geasa issue much more
> complex. More metal means less juice (it's a bitch to try and satisfy
> three geasa at once!) Go with it. :)
>
> Deosyne
>
OK what if he says he'll take a geasa of having to have something with
him(can't think of the name) and he says the cybereyes are that thing?
how about seeing, would this count as normal sight? would he be able to
cast LOS spells at anything he sees? how about if he hat a transmiter
that racieved a picture of somewhere else, could he cast a spell on
that? It is a good system but still needs some work. :-)
Caun :}
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 13:06:58 +0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Technomancer <arvanit@**D.UCH.GR>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
In-Reply-To: <33D86AC2.713784C4@*********.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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OK, I love the new way of the geasa (never liked the other one).
So to sum up (and offer my view):
a) Following a geas allows one to "keep" the lost point.
MV=> Great, I think this is how it should be.
b) If you have multiple geasa follow them all or lose all the points.
MV=> I think it is kind of harsh, but not inherently wrong.
c) What happens upon initiation ?
MV=> Either gain a new Magic Point and keep the geas or lose the geas
without droping in Magic rating. (Actualy abandon the geas, losing a point
that is instantly regained free of geasa.)
And what is that I hear about using geasa to counter cyberware?
I thought geasa where used to counter magic loss due to wounds etc., not
due to essence loss. Essence loss should remove Magic points permanently,
without any options for keeping them (You are making yourself weaker and
unable to hold his full potential of astral energy).
**Hoping that was clear...*******************************************
* Technomancer * Modesty is one of my countless virtues *
* arvanit@***.uch.gr *
* http://www.csd.uch.gr/~arvanit/ *
*********************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:26:11 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
In-Reply-To: <v03007800affd9f7149f6@[206.129.23.28]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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At 24-Jul-97 wrote Skye Comstock:
>Well... Geez. (S)he is the greatest theorist in history, knows how
>to make the best porn out there, and has enough etiquette for
>everyone and their brother...
She is a troughly frighteing person if one have seen her in action.
But if you have not she`s so cute and looks like she could do you no harm.
Definetly a point if you will be underestimated.
And with ettiquette this high you need not most of the time
to fight you are mostly to convince the other thats not good for them
if they start a fight.
>This guy walks around in a muy thai combat stance all the time,
>hops a lot, but makes no noise and never sweats... Snazzy. ;)
Oh yeah, the term dedicated martial artsts means anything for you?
She does nothing realy more than that
>At least there wasn't anything high than 30.
Don`t count on it. These are the real skilllevels the CW/BW bonuses
are NOT included
>Your characters are more akin to gods... :)
Gods not likely only real advanged characters.
And some of them had payed deeply for their current state.
Or would you call 22! cortexbombs a blessing?
And thats only a reminder of do you know we build you from scrap again now you
are ours.
All had developed over the gametime none of them where anything extraordiery
in the beginnig
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:36:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Two quick questions...
In-Reply-To: <199707241042.LAA04506@*****.cs.cf.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Rob Davies said on 11:42/24 Jul 97...
> Can anyone explain the phrase, 'Once a player has
> allocated Magic Rating Points to "buy" a power, that
> power cannot be changed, but it can be upgraded by
> spending more Magic Points at a later time.' (Page 126,
> SRII.)
>
> I understand the killing hands S->D example but where
> do the 'more Magic points' come from?
From your next bit, I gather you understand what it means, but don't know
how to actually get those extra MP to buy the upgrade with. There are two
ways, the first of which is to not spend all your MPs during character
generation; for example, if you buy Killing Hands S and four points Pain
Resistance, you have 2 points left. Now start play, and during play you
can upgrade Killing Hands to D.
However, this isn't all that handy, so we get to:
> How can a physical adept improve & gain new Phys. Ad.
> abilities? Increasing their magic score is not allowed,
> Do they just use karma as magic points?
Increasing the Magic Rating _is_ allowed, but not in the same way as you
increase Attributes like Body, Charisma, etc. You'll need a copy of The
Grimoire, which explains initiation, which proceeds in grades. Each grade
costs Karma (and a lot of it at that), but adds to your Magic rating in
the following way: Magic = Essence (round down) + initiation grade.
So a physad with Essence 6 and initiation grade 4 has a Magic Rating of
10, and can therefore have 10 points worth of powers.
> On a different topic, which SR book contain info on
> grading clinics (detla, etc)?
The Street Samurai Catalog has alpha and beta clinics, while
Cybertechnology repeats that info but adds delta-grade.
> Sorry if this is rehashing old ground - I'm new(ish)
> here. Thanks
Welcome to the list :)
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:36:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970725075154.12943A-100000@*******.dialix.com.au>
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Lady Jestyr said on 7:52/25 Jul 97...
> > You HAVE to use Willpower instead of your skill, unless you have access to
> > things a weapon focus (presumably that must be bonded to you, although
> > SRII fails to mention that) or something that attacks the spirit's
> > Vulnerability weakness (for example, using a flamethrower on a water
> > elemental).
>
> ... or a baseball bat covered with insecticide... that's the only way we
> lived through bug city.
My players never did think of the simple fact that insects might be
vulnerable to insecticides (though now I've said it on the list, I'm
pretty sure at least one of them will think of it next time they encounter
a bucnh of bugs... :)
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:36:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <199707241655.LAA08941@****.madison.tec.wi.us>
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Gossamer said on 12:06/25 Jul 97...
> >A kick in the genitals will end most show-streetfights, but never a
> >REAL fight.
>
> This I can confirm, but I can't explain it.
Maybe the buzz-word "adrenalin" applies? If you're fighting for your life,
I imagine you put a lot more into it than if you're fighting for an
abstract concept like honor or the money in your wallet.
> I agree with Mike B on this one. The skill of the attacker will tell.
> Anytime I would need to strike to the face area, my targets are
> eyes, throat, and nose. I have only hit one person in the face, and
> that was in high school. It is definitely not high on my list of
> targets, but when the opportunity presents itself...
How many movie fights do you see where people go for the throat or eyes?
Usually they punch opponents in the jaw, and since nearly everybody gets
their ideas on how to fight from movies and TV, that's what they'll go
for...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:36:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
In-Reply-To: <970725020600_1962031692@*******.mail.aol.com>
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Steve Kenson said on 2:06/25 Jul 97...
> Most likely, under the proposed sustem, characters would not be able shed
> geasa upon initiating. The only way to lose the geas would be to also
> sacrifice the point of Magic, putting yourself on the slippery slope to
> burning out because of your inability to maintain the "magical lifestyle"
you
> need to maintain your powers. Of course, a character could always try to use
> Initiation to try to stay ahead of the loss, getting rid of "tainted" (ie.,
> geas-bound) Magic points and replacing them with "clean" (unrestricted)
Magic
> gained from Initiation. This is like running the Red Queen's race "running
> and running just to stay in place."
With that last bit, do you mean that a) the geas-restricted Magic points
get replaced by non-geas MPs, in other words that the geas gets removed
from the MP but the magician gains no additional MP; or b) that the
character gains an MP as normal but simply doesn't bother sticking to the
geas for the "lost" MP? Hmm, this may need a "for instance"...
For instance, Jeff the grade 0 initiate loses a magic point (somebody
shot off his arm and he failed his magic loss check). He chooses a geas of
gesturing for the lost MP, so if he gestures he has a Magic rating of 6,
while if he doesn't, it's 5.
Then he initiates to grade 1. If using method A, he'd have a Magic rating
of 6 and no geas; with method B his Magic rating is 6 if he doesn't
gesture, and 7 when he does.
I'm in favor of allowing the player to choose which of the two (s)he
wants.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:36:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Two quick questions...
In-Reply-To: <6671.199707241050@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
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Spike said on 11:50/24 Jul 97...
> |Rob.
> |-----------------------------------------------------------
> |Rob Davies. Rob.Davies@**.cf.ac.uk
> |Department of Computer Science, http://www.cs.cf.ac.uk/
> |University of Wales, Cardiff, Phone +44 1222 874812
> |PO Box 916, Cardiff, CF2 3XF. Fax +44 1222 874598
A slight slip-up, Spike? :)
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:36:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <01ILMFKU0PFA9I9638@******.acs.muohio.edu>
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Wendy Wanders, Subject 117 said on 17:19/24 Jul 97...
> dice pools refresh on a character's actions, the refresh at the start of a
> combat is an exception to this (i.e. everybody starts a combat with full pools,
> before their first action).
It's not really an exception, if you look at it. Presumably you can also
do things before a combat starts, at which time your pool refreshes too.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 11:34:57 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
Chris Maxfield writes
> At 16:43 23/07/97 GMT, Mark Steedman wrote:
> >Um but if firearms become involved?
>
> Yes. I see what you mean. It's not a problem of had to deal with yet. I'd
> probably allocate the initiative loser some dodge pool dice versus range
> attacks if he's in that waiting for refresh period.
>
> >I have been wondering, what about banning people from adding combat
> >pool to skills until they have had an action in combat?
>
> Same result. The Initiative loser puts all his combat pool into full
> defence when the initiative winner attacks and then on his action, when his
> pool refreshes, he gets to attack with all of his dice while the initiative
> winner has little or no dice left in his combat pool. Or do you mean the
> initiative loser can only attack with skill and no pool dice until his
> second action?
No. This version merely banned the slower erson from using combat
pool on thier skill untill their action so use they can still use
full defence. However the faster person will assuming equal skill now
have twice as many attack dice and will hit. If the defender (slow
character) has lots of armour compared to the attack (defnse TN <5)
then yes the first guy now gets creamed, if the defender needs 6's to
dodge however he gets hurt big time and TN penalties will more
than offset his dice advantage (unless he's a physical adept with
enhanced centring, but given what that costs thats fair/ pain
resistance / pain editor).
>
> >Therefore whoever wins the initative gets to add combat pool to the
> >attack while thier opponent does not. Ok the target may still use
> >full defence but. This avoids the problems affecting dice pool
>
> I'm starting to like this solution.
>
> >refresh timing causes if a third person decides to interfer in the
> >melee (especially if its with a gun). Assuming the guy that lost the
> >initiative isn't wearing so much armour that the attacks going to
> >bounce off, the person that wins should now get a big advantage as
> >theres no more 'well i'm going second so pour my pool into melee
> >combat at low TN because it will refresh before my action'.
>
> I agree that this means the initiative winner will be the only one having
> any chance of doing damage initially and is also protected from the
> initiative loser's pool refresh but I don't see this as a large advantage
> .... hang on, damn it, it is a big advantage. You know, I like this rule.
> I'm introducing it into my games.
I haven't tested this as the final refinement is recent and it would
be a house rule, see comments on full defence above.
>
> >Still not perfect. You could always simply ban combat poolmfrom being
> >used against attacks made using 'melee combat' until the person has
> >had an action, it's not as if they are difficult to identify as the
>
> No. If one side has combat pool and the other doesn't then the initiative
> winner is almost always guaranteed to win the combat. He just has to high a
> net advantage in dice. And he only needs it for the first strike to be
> successful and then it's all down hill for his opponent.
Very true. However unless the faster guy is a lot better or delays
till his opponents action the present SR system goes.
guy 1 attacks
target blocks parries etc with full pool
if guy 1 used his pool not a lot happens, if he didn't he get
riposted and hurt.
the slower combatent now goes again full attack, the fast guy being
either hurt or low on dice gets totally creamed unless he is either a
lot better or has enough armour plus body to shrug off the slower
guys attacks.
As SR2 stands you wait for he other to attack and cream him when he
gives you an oppening (realistic, but it fails to reward the higher
intiative guy doing a fient to draw out his opponent and then using
speed to cream him when he uses a fake oppening)
This idea gives the faster person that huge advantage.
From everything i have heard niether is realistic but given te SR
combat system if the faster person uses a feint (not covered by SR)
the outcome at least rewards speed.
it would now go.
Fast person throws a feint.
slow guy tries to take advantage
fast guy uses the oppening offered and creams Mr slow.
Rules wise though all three of the above now happen at Mr fasts first
action.
Comments
>
> >'cannot use combat pool on both the skill roll and dodge' rule
> >already uses this identifier to track it's applicability.
>
> Which rule is this. Do you mean that in full defence you cannot use any
> combat pool dice in the skill test but only in the defence test?
Thats the one, or nearly.
'You cannot spend pool dice on both the attack test and the damage
resistance test at the same time'
You could spend some to hit A with your sword and some to dodge B's
knife but not some to parry C's axe AND some to roll with the blow
when you don't quite manage to parry.
[terms used for description of real event rather than game mechanics
here]
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:36:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.96.970724102239.25771A-100000@*******.cs.uml.edu>
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Steven A. Collins said on 10:42/24 Jul 97...
> True sexually xmitted diseases should be a real concern for characters
> living low lifestyles or less but I try to keep most aspects of
> sexuality out of my game. The reason, as the GM i just can't
> realistically roleplay a woman who the character is trying to "score"
> with.
I was thinking about Twilight: 2000 there, not SR. In SR that should be
easy enough to prevent even at Low lifestyles, but in T2K you're playing a
world that has just gone through a nuclear war...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:36:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Your .Sig [OT]
In-Reply-To: <19970724.072649.10942.0.Spamquat@****.com>
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Joshua T Brown said on 7:26/24 Jul 97...
> David Buehrer-san wa kakimashita -
> >--
> >"ahh, kamisama! watashi no atama ni ono ga arimasu!"
> >
> Nihon'go wa chotto hanashimasu ga wakarimasen' deshita.....
> Errrr.... I mean I speak a fair bit of Japanese... (It's currently
> accounting for 15 credit hours in my summer collegiate courses) but I
> have NO IDEA what it is you were trying to say with that last bit of
> oddly phrased signature material...
Unless I'm severely mistaken, it means "Oh my god! There's an axe in my
head!"
How's that for someone who knows about 7 words Japanese? :)
(Not that it's too hard, all David's .sigs you can't understand say the
same thing in different languages...)
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:36:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
In-Reply-To: <199707241642.LAA13295@****.madison.tec.wi.us>
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Someone said...
> > Something else to keep in mind: In order to improve a skill
> > beyond a certain point, you may as a GM require that the
> > player ALWAYS have an instructor. You can only self teach
> > yourself so much.
That is plain nonsense. If it's impossible to teach yourself things
beyond a certain level of skill, we'd never have gotten so far as to
start using tools... The only way to expand knowledge is to learn things
that nobody else knows yet, which by the above statement would be
impossible because there's nobody to teach them to you.
> Who got Stephen Hawking from Astrophysics 9 to 10?
> He did. And who got him from 10 to 11? He did.
>
> At the point of being that high... only you can teach yourself,
> IMO...
My point exactly.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:36:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
In-Reply-To: <199707241317.HAA04747@******>
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David Buehrer said on 7:17/24 Jul 97...
> Thanks, I'll look for a copy of Twilight: 2000 to get started.
If you want to, I could send you a summary. T2K is out of print, and
buying a whole rulebook just for the disease rules could be a bit
unnecessary... :)
> The characters in my game to travel internationally from time to
> time, and that's when they have a chance of catching some disease in
> a third world country, or a disease that the PCs don't have a
> resistance to.
That's always a nasty trick *EGMG* With 2050s medicine I'd give them the
ability to take precautions though, if they think about doing so. If they
don't, it would be their own fault -- you don't travel to tropical
countries nowadays without getting some shots against local diseases, so
why should you in 2058?
> Also, what with corporations getting creative about disposing of
> toxic waste I thing that's a perfect opportunity to start off an
> adventure by poisoning a PC (or friend of) and having the PCs hunt
> down who is responsible.
There's already a FASA adventure that does something similar, although
from a slightly different angle.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 08:57:02 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
In-Reply-To: <970725020557_560078668@*******.mail.aol.com>
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> >be to prevent the use of any of the 'lost' Magic points unless all of the
> Geasa
> >are being met. For example: <example snipped>
>
> Interesting idea. It definitely forces some tough decisions on the
> burnouts. I'll give it some thought. What does everyone else think?
Agreed. All your Geasa or no magic bonus. There should be some
middle state though....a +2 target number type deal?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 07:26:22 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Viral diseases
In-Reply-To: <199707251048.EAA24239@******> from "Gurth" at Jul 25,
97 12:36:34 pm
Content-Type: text
Gurth wrote:
|
| David Buehrer said on 7:17/24 Jul 97...
|
| > Thanks, I'll look for a copy of Twilight: 2000 to get started.
|
| If you want to, I could send you a summary. T2K is out of print, and
| buying a whole rulebook just for the disease rules could be a bit
| unnecessary... :)
Please do. And thanks :)
[snip: disease in foreign countries]
| That's always a nasty trick *EGMG* With 2050s medicine I'd give them the
| ability to take precautions though, if they think about doing so. If they
| don't, it would be their own fault -- you don't travel to tropical
| countries nowadays without getting some shots against local diseases, so
| why should you in 2058?
My parents were stationed in Bangkok, Thailand, last year (State
Department, not diplomats but computer geeks :) and my Dad caught
something freaky that crippled him by causing excruciating pain in
the muscles of his upper left leg. He was evaced back to the states,
but by the time he got back the disease had run it's course and there
was no trace of it left, just the damage it left behind (the doctors
still have no idea what he caught). The damage to his leg had the
side effect that it aggravated his back. Only now is he starting to
recover. Anyway, I'm not looking for sympathy or anything, just
passing along what can happen. And I don't even want to think about
the parasites that you can pick up in third world countries <shudder>
(always buy bottled water).
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 07:27:59 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Your .Sig [OT]
In-Reply-To: <199707251046.EAA23993@******> from "Gurth" at Jul 25,
97 12:36:34 pm
Content-Type: text
Gurth wrote:
|
| (Not that it's too hard, all David's .sigs you can't understand say the
| same thing in different languages...)
Alas, the freeware random .sig generator I had crashed and I lost all
of them. No more axes in the head for me :)
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:31:25 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
Gurth writes
> > ... or a baseball bat covered with insecticide... that's the only way we
> > lived through bug city.
>
> My players never did think of the simple fact that insects might be
> vulnerable to insecticides (though now I've said it on the list, I'm
> pretty sure at least one of them will think of it next time they encounter
> a bucnh of bugs... :)
>
Lucky you.
I gave up on bugs, the PC's insecticide useage was starting to find
things they fall for in style, it was either use force 20+ bugs to
survive the clever attacks with S wounds and cleave all the PC's to
bits the moment an unhurt one made melee or allow whole scale
slaughter (these folks killed a force 10 spirit energy 5 queen and
were reaching the stage where when someone got it right force tens
were target practice, another couple of fights and i would have been
for it!). When it came to a hive they just hijacked a whole tanker of
insecticide and rammed the thing!
It's not fair!!!!
Still they now have Triad, Mob and Yak problems :) and they don't
fall for that :) muh ha ha.
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 07:36:51 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Karmic Winds
In-Reply-To: <199707250246.UAA08126@******> from "J. Keith Henry" at Jul
24,
97 10:45:26 pm
Content-Type: text
J. Keith Henry wrote:
|
[snip]
Come on baby light my fire. ;)
Seriously though, that was an exceptional allegory.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 08:54:41 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: [GC] A Drive in the Country
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 02:30 PM 7/24/97 -0700, Mike Buckalew wrote:
>The Kumquat Wrote:
>I did preregister and I did get into A Drive in the Country. I got my
>prereg tickets yesterday and the interesting thing is that it lists Jill
>Lucas as the GM for this event.
>
>Is this just because it's a FASA sponsored event, or is she actually one
>of the three (I think it's three) GMs running the game in the first round?
Last year they had more than 3 judges (I think there were 10 or so groups
of 6 for the first round.) And they took some generic tickets too.
>Anyway, I'm very excited. I got in to every game I signed up for, with
>only one (The Babylon Project) being shifted to a different time. It's
>going to be a busy 4 days!
Heh. You're not running :)
Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/
The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton
Gencon count down: 12 days
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 23:11:47 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <45350D31200@******.eee.rgu.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 11:34 25/07/97 GMT, Mark Steedman wrote:
>No. This version merely banned the slower erson from using combat
>pool on thier skill untill their action so use they can still use
>full defence. However the faster person will assuming equal skill now
>have twice as many attack dice and will hit. If the defender (slow
>character) has lots of armour compared to the attack (defnse TN <5)
>then yes the first guy now gets creamed, if the defender needs 6's to
>dodge however he gets hurt big time and TN penalties will more
>than offset his dice advantage (unless he's a physical adept with
>enhanced centring, but given what that costs thats fair/ pain
>resistance / pain editor).
Don't forget though, if the initiative loser (the defender) can place all
of his combat pool into full defense for the initiative winner's attack
there's a good chance, with all else equal, that the defender will not take
any damage. And then we're back to the original problem. Unless, of course,
the defender has no armour or the power of the attack is high. Even then,
this initial damage to the initiative loser may not be enough to off set
his pool refresh advantage. Oops, I see you discuss this below. Mmmm. I'll
have to think further about this. For the moment I'd still prefer mandating
the initiative loser to not be able to use combat pool on his skill rolls
until his second action.
>Very true. However unless the faster guy is a lot better or delays
>till his opponents action the present SR system goes.
>
>guy 1 attacks
>target blocks parries etc with full pool
> if guy 1 used his pool not a lot happens, if he didn't he get
>riposted and hurt.
>
>the slower combatent now goes again full attack, the fast guy being
>either hurt or low on dice gets totally creamed unless he is either a
>lot better or has enough armour plus body to shrug off the slower
>guys attacks.
Which is why I suggested that the initiative loser could not add pool dice
to skill until his second action. I know its a klunky work-around but I
suppose SR rules just don't reflect the tactics of battle too well. It's
why we GMs have to be good story tellers. :-)
>
>As SR2 stands you wait for he other to attack and cream him when he
>gives you an oppening (realistic, but it fails to reward the higher
>intiative guy doing a fient to draw out his opponent and then using
>speed to cream him when he uses a fake oppening)
>This idea gives the faster person that huge advantage.
I just don't like huge advantages merely because of a quicker initiative of
just a phase or two. It sought of makes the combat pointless when the two
opponents are otherwise so equal. Just declare the initiative winner the
victor and move on to the next scene. However, if the initiative winner has
a truly significant initiative advantage (ie. the opponents are not equal)
such that he has two (or even more) actions before the loser has an action
then we have an interesting situation that accurately (as far as SR rules
can) reflects what you are asking for with feints - and just using the base
rules:
1. First guy attacks with max combat pool dice
2. Second guy defends/counter-attacks using all his combat pool to avoid
being creamed.
3. First guy attacks again with a refreshed combat pool.
4. Second guy has not yet had an action and so his combat pool has not been
refreshed. He is mince meat.
>> Which rule is this. Do you mean that in full defence you cannot use any
>> combat pool dice in the skill test but only in the defence test?
>Thats the one, or nearly.
>'You cannot spend pool dice on both the attack test and the damage
>resistance test at the same time'
>You could spend some to hit A with your sword and some to dodge B's
>knife but not some to parry C's axe AND some to roll with the blow
>when you don't quite manage to parry.
No, you're right, this is not the full defence rule. I can't find your rule
anywhere in the BBB. Could you give me a page reference please?
Chris
_______________________________________________________________
Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:24:38 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
Chris Maxfield writes
> >
> >As SR2 stands you wait for he other to attack and cream him when he
> >gives you an oppening (realistic, but it fails to reward the higher
> >intiative guy doing a fient to draw out his opponent and then using
> >speed to cream him when he uses a fake oppening)
> >This idea gives the faster person that huge advantage.
>
> I just don't like huge advantages merely because of a quicker initiative of
> just a phase or two. It sought of makes the combat pointless when the two
> opponents are otherwise so equal. Just declare the initiative winner the
> victor and move on to the next scene.
ok i can see that, though given unaugmented combatents that would be
a significant achievement.
> However, if the initiative winner has
> a truly significant initiative advantage (ie. the opponents are not equal)
> such that he has two (or even more) actions before the loser has an action
> then we have an interesting situation that accurately (as far as SR rules
> can) reflects what you are asking for with feints - and just using the base
> rules:
Yes. I will therefore rebuild the example for 1 action before and
your no dice on first attack for the slower character.
1. First guy attacks with max combat pool dice
2. Second guy defends/counter-attacks using all his combat pool to avoid
being creamed.
All even.
3. Second guy attacks again with no pool.
and the first defends with none either (unless he had a lot compared
to his skill but such is not the result unless folks have serious
bonuses that should affect matters) again even.
4. first guy attacks with full pool, and yes his target also has a
full pool (because he wasn't allowed to use it), again standoff.
Second guy gets to his second action if he rolled 11 or more
he has a full combat pool the fast guy doesn't, OUCH!
And if you ban the slow guy from using it on skill rolls to defend
either he gets creamed or just usues full defence instead depending
on power level vs armour.
> >> Which rule is this. Do you mean that in full defence you cannot use any
> >> combat pool dice in the skill test but only in the defence test?
> >Thats the one, or nearly.
> >'You cannot spend pool dice on both the attack test and the damage
> >resistance test at the same time'
> >You could spend some to hit A with your sword and some to dodge B's
> >knife but not some to parry C's axe AND some to roll with the blow
> >when you don't quite manage to parry.
>
> No, you're right, this is not the full defence rule. I can't find your rule
> anywhere in the BBB. Could you give me a page reference please?
>
Page refs are not easy as book is not near email account. It is
amongst the stuff about the full defence rule though, it that you may
not use full defence if you spend any combat pool on the skill roll
against the melee attack that just hit you.
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:31:09 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Area Spells
Steve Kenson wrote:
>2) A valid target is one which the caster: a) can
>see or assense, unaided by technology and,
Point of clarification, please: what about targets
who are under the effects of invisibility, using
stealth, a spirit's concealment power etc? The
casting mage COULD see them if he rolls high
enough on his perception roll, but what if he
doesn't even bother to look? In other words,
does the mage have to "see" them, or "notice"
them?
Double-Domed Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:37:54 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: Area Spells
Steve Kenson writes
>
> 1) Area-effect spells DO NOT have to be centered on a person. The caster
> centers the spell wherever is desired. All valid targets within the radius of
> the spell's effect are affected. The key word here is VALID targets. Which
> brings us to:
That would be a change though it would make sense as otherwise
targeting loopholes get found, especially for power spells, finding
something to centre a fireball on, even an old drinks can isn't
difficult.
[snippety snip]
> I think the whole "synchronize auras" stuff is bogus, or at least badly
> explained.
I think badly explained. It makes sense as 'how it works' given the
system base but what you have described here is far superior for
explaining how to implement it in rule for player usage.
> Example: Talon tosses a manaball at a security mage, two corp guards and an
> elemental the mage has hanging around in astral space. Talon can see the mage
> and one guard. The other guard is up against the wall on the other side of
> the open doorway.
I agree with the result of this completely. It might be worth making
it clear who you calculate all the TN's for the spell though like
this as that based on comments to the list also causes problems.
> This is how all area-effect combat spells (and other area-type spells like
> Chaos) work. The only exception is Damaging Manipulations, which create a
> real, physical medium the caster directs at the targets. The blast radius of
> a damaging manipulation affects all physical targets in the area of effect,
> whether the caster can see them or not.
>
The one we could use here is LOS and damaging manipulations. Is the
TN to hit the security guard behind the door in your example [i
snipped] with a flamebomb (he being immune to anything but a DM)
landed in the middle of the doorway betwwen Mr mage and guard 1 a 4
'because you have a clear LOS on the doorway' or a 12 'becasue the
target is invisible +8 for blind fire' ?
And clear up what the descriptions implay but the rules don't state
that the elemental is immune to the flamebomb even if the mage
casting it is astrally percepting because the spell is dual but
explodes on the physical plane only 'because the magical flame must
have a physical component'. Similarly that you cannot cast DM's while
astrally projecting (as astral magicians have no armour thay are FAR
too lethal were this to be allowed). It might also be worth making
the 'no projecting and sustaining spells' rule clearer. And while we
are at it clear up the effect of initiate shielding and damaging
manipulations, does it as i belive rasie the effective body but not
the 'fixed' TN4 which is the same as spell defence, or does it plain
rasie TN's in which case initiates with some shielding left are
utterly immune to magic (unless the rule stating you need net
successes to hurt peple with magic is revoked, which is a house rule
i use).
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:19:56 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Kristling the Weird <kristlingweird@*********.COM>
Organization: Founder & Supreme Dictator for Life, Lightmoon Project
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Technomancer wrote:
>
> OK, I love the new way of the geasa (never liked the other one).
I think it's cool.
> So to sum up (and offer my view):
> a) Following a geas allows one to "keep" the lost point.
> MV=> Great, I think this is how it should be.
> b) If you have multiple geasa follow them all or lose all the points.
> MV=> I think it is kind of harsh, but not inherently wrong.
Indeed, but I think the loss of such power SHOULD be harsh.
> c) What happens upon initiation ?
> MV=> Either gain a new Magic Point and keep the geas or lose the geas
> without droping in Magic rating. (Actualy abandon the geas, losing a point
> that is instantly regained free of geasa.)
I'd let player's choose. (Let me see, while casting Powerball at force 7
would be neat, I'd rather do without a time gesa. I'l stay at six magic
but drop that gesa. Now, I just have to deal with geturing....
(Next time, I haven't found gesture too restrictive, so I keep it and
get up to seven magic.... oh, Mr Saaaaaammmmmmyy........)
> And what is that I hear about using geasa to counter cyberware?
> I thought geasa where used to counter magic loss due to wounds etc., not
> due to essence loss. Essence loss should remove Magic points permanently,
> without any options for keeping them (You are making yourself weaker and
> unable to hold his full potential of astral energy).
Agreed. Though I do think sr3 should include notes on "spiritual
healing". This would allow characters to regain essence. I feel, if you
can make up for loses/ inadequecies in the other attributes (even magic,
which is linked to essence) you should do it with essence.
If it did....
A) Before this can happen, you must remove any cyberware causing a
loss.
B) I haven't read the stuff on cyber zombies, but from what I heard....
this ain't an option for 'em.
--Rush is a GREAT rock group. And yes, this is true.
Kristling The Weird
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/5482/
kristlingweird@*********.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:42:17 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <199707251425.IAA12029@******> from "Mark Steedman" at Jul
25,
97 03:24:38 pm
Content-Type: text
I mentioned this before, but I think I got blown off.
Refresh everyone's pools at the beginning of combat. From that point
on the characters' pools refresh at the *end* of their action
phases.
Character A attacks first, using all of his combat pool. Character B
defends, also using all of his combat pool. Everything being even, B
successfully defends. Niether side takes any damage. A's pool
refreshes.
B attacks, but he doesn't have a combat pool. A defends with some of
the dice from his combat pool and comes out on top. B's pool
refreshes.
A attacks using what's left of his combat pool. B can use all of his
combat pool to make sure he doesn't get hit, or try to hedge it and
save dice for his attack on his next action.
And so on. The advantage that B had is removed, and the players have
to start doing some serious thinking when the allocate pool dice to
tests.
Please, give this some thought, then let me know what's wrong with it
:)
BTW, in my game successful defense results in the failure of the
attack, not a counter-attack. But even with counter-attacks, A's
initiative bonus is just that, a bonus, not a detriment.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:59:02 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Kristling the Weird <kristlingweird@*********.COM>
Organization: Founder & Supreme Dictator for Life, Lightmoon Project
Subject: Re: Rumour Mill
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Bull wrote:
>
> Hoi kids, It's me again...;]
>
> I just got a mail from Mike Mulvhill kinda confirming a few things, and
> backing up what Lou said on the ED list about the runours of buyouts and such.
>
> Just figured you might like the word from the SR man himself...:]
>
<snip>
Thanks, Bull, for helping this myth die quickly on this list.
--
Kristling The Weird
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/5482/
kristlingweird@*********.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 18:05:27 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paolo Marcucci <paolo@*********.IT>
Subject: The Shadowrun Archive Channel
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Push technology, Dynamic HTML, daily updates, a pic of Dunkelzahn,
brilliant colors, semi-intelligent ponderings in the new installation of
the Archive.
Looks better if you have ie40 :)
http://www.interware.it/shadowrun/channel/index.htm
This thing should go live from Aug 1st, so look at it, subscribe, test and
let me know...
Thanks to all, Paolo
____________________________________________________________
Paolo Marcucci paolo@*********.it
InterWare Service Provider Trieste, Italy
http://www.interware.it/ Tel. +39-40-360630
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 11:24:41 -0500
Reply-To: swordman@******.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Swordman <swordman@******.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Shadowrun Movies (was Re: A Li'l Ole Question)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Mike Loseke wrote:
> The ones that I have seem are "The Killer" and "Hardboiled", both
of
> which would be good source material for SR. His Hollywood movies aren't
> that great right now,
I think "Hard Target" was a great film. Actualy Chance (Van Damme) is
a real munchin character... we've calculated most of his shot's to be
at least 8+ target numbers...
And Don't forget any Thomas Ian Griffith movie like "Excessive Force",
"Cracker Jack" or "Hollow Point"
BTW for a REAL Shadowrun like movie, try the Origianl "Nemesis"
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 11:15:50 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Adam J. Lyle" <wolfjack@****.BCL.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Shadowrun Movies (was Re: A Li'l Ole Question)
In-Reply-To: <33D8D348.5A96@******.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
> BTW for a REAL Shadowrun like movie, try the Origianl "Nemesis"
>
I thought that "Nemesis" had more of a CyberPunk, R. Talsorian Games,
feel to it that an SR one. Some of the quotes, how things were done, etc
were very CyberPunk.
Not that I am saying I like CyberPunk over Sr.
Adam
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:48:29 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: The Shadowrun Archive Channel
In-Reply-To: <199707251607.KAA16666@******>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Paolo Marcucci wrote:
)Push technology, Dynamic HTML, daily updates, a pic of Dunkelzahn,
)brilliant colors, semi-intelligent ponderings in the new installation of
)the Archive.
What the heck is a .cdf file?
-David
--
"The mind is a wonderful thing. It starts working the minute you're
born & never stops until you get up to speak in public."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:50:03 -0500
Reply-To: swordman@******.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Swordman <swordman@******.NET>
Subject: Re: question
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Simon T. Sailer wrote:
>
> > We generally either leave them out if they weren't essential to the
> > plotline or we're in a bad mood.
> >
> > Lady Jestyr
>
> You leave them out even if the character didn't have time to leave?
> So he just disappears sometimes and reappears later? Well, thats the
> easiest sulution, but the least satisfying one.
>
> ss
Personaly I try to find out who will be at the next sesion before hand.
If a player can't make it, I just talk to them then and ask "so what is
you character going to do?", but in the event they can't make it
something "The Tick" like happens, like a metor from space knocks the
character out convienently untill the next session. The others know
what's up and at times throw the unconsious body in the trunk of thier
car untill the person come around.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 11:49:40 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: The Shadowrun Archive Channel
In-Reply-To: <199707251649.KAA18625@******> from "David Buehrer" at Jul
25,
97 10:48:29 am
Content-Type: text
David Buehrer wrote:
|
| Paolo Marcucci wrote:
| )Push technology, Dynamic HTML, daily updates, a pic of Dunkelzahn,
| )brilliant colors, semi-intelligent ponderings in the new installation of
| )the Archive.
|
| What the heck is a .cdf file?
Gee, that didn't make much sense did it?
I checked out the new site, which looks great BTW. I clicked on the
button to subscribe and it started to download a .cdf file. I have no
idea what a .cdf file is, or what it is used for. Help.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:03:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [GC] A Drive in the Country
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>I did preregister and I did get into A Drive in the Country. I got my
>>prereg tickets yesterday and the interesting thing is that it lists Jill
>>Lucas as the GM for this event.
>>
I'm in it as well now, so... gee... how many listmembers will be playing
in that event?? :]
>>Anyway, I'm very excited. I got in to every game I signed up for, with
>>only one (The Babylon Project) being shifted to a different time. It's
>>going to be a busy 4 days!
>
Lucky you... Looks like I missed out on a couple games I signed up for...
Drive in the Country was the only event I ended up with a ticket for...
but I've got planty of Generic Tickets now...:]
>Heh. You're not running :)
>
Thank God...;] bad enough trying to run for guys I know...:]
See ya'll there! ;]
Bull-who-still-wants-to-get-a-decent-ork-costume-for-GC
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 20:16:19 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paolo Marcucci <paolo@*********.IT>
Subject: Re: The Shadowrun Archive Channel
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:49 25/07/97 -0600, David Buehrer said:
>I checked out the new site, which looks great BTW. I clicked on the
>button to subscribe and it started to download a .cdf file. I have no
>idea what a .cdf file is, or what it is used for. Help.
You should have ie40 to use the channel function. If you don't have it,
just browse the site normally, but it won't be sent to you with a daily
schedule, that is, you should connect and enter the site to see changes.
Bye, Paolo
____________________________________________________________
Paolo Marcucci paolo@*********.it
InterWare Service Provider Trieste, Italy
http://www.interware.it/ Tel. +39-40-360630
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:33:28 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
On Wednesday, July 23, 1997 19:09, Loki[SMTP:daddyjim@**********.COM]
wrote:
> ---Jonathan Hurley wrote:
> >
> >
> > Oh, and ItNW doesn't work against a certain kind of ranged weapon,
> bows.
> > (Not x-bows, thought.)
>
> Actually ITNW as a power works against all mundane attacks (fist,
> sword, club, gun, bow, etc.). The limited form of ITNW that comes with
> Manifestation, however, works as you've described.
>
Ahah. Thank you for that clarification. I don't think I've ever put the PCs
up against anything with immunity to normal weapons, just manifestation,
and that's why I thought that.
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:43:30 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
On Thursday, July 24, 1997 10:51, John E Pederson[SMTP:lobo1@****.COM]
wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:17:07 +0100 "Simon T. Sailer"
> <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT> writes:
>
> >Well, if you rolled 4 sixes with 9 dice.... *grin* can you do it
> >again?
> >On an average roll, you will get 1 or two successes, and the spirit
> >takes deadly damage.
>
>
> Yes, and on an average roll, the sammie wouldn't have hit the broad side
> of a very large barn with that full auto burst (the sammie's TN would
> have been at least 13, 12 or 11 with a laser sight or smartlink,
> respectively).
Oh, I dunno. Example: Snapshot (a PC) honks off a nine-round burst at a
target. He's using an Ares Alpha combat gun(Two points recoil comp) with a
shock pad (another point.) He's got a strength of 7 (another 2 points (FoF
p83) for a grand reduction of 5, bringing his target number (at close
range, with his smartgun link) to 6. Not bad at all, all things considered.
If he was using a weapon with IGV4, he'd be looking at 4's for a target
number. Because of the way the Ares Alpha description is worded, he could
*add* the IGV4 to the weapon and get his TN down to 2. (The weapon offers 2
points of recoil comp, *and* can take barrel mounted accessories. Now I see
why this weapon is so hard to get.)
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:50:21 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
On Thursday, July 24, 1997 12:17, Michael
Broadwater[SMTP:mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM] wrote:
> But you are right on one thing: a kick to the groin's not going to stop a
> fight. That's why you follow it up.
A kick to the kneecap, on the other hand. Or a good stomp to the foot. Both
ways to slow down the opponent, maybe cripple him, without exposing
yourself.
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:45:07 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
> Date: Friday, July 25, 1997 2:43 PM
> On Thursday, July 24, 1997 10:51, John E Pederson[SMTP:lobo1@****.COM]
> wrote:
> > On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:17:07 +0100 "Simon T. Sailer"
> > <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT> writes:
> > >Well, if you rolled 4 sixes with 9 dice.... *grin* can you do it
> > >again?
> > >On an average roll, you will get 1 or two successes, and the spirit
> > >takes deadly damage.
> > Yes, and on an average roll, the sammie wouldn't have hit the broad
side
> > of a very large barn with that full auto burst (the sammie's TN would
> > have been at least 13, 12 or 11 with a laser sight or smartlink,
> > respectively).
> Oh, I dunno. Example: Snapshot (a PC) honks off a nine-round burst at a
> target. He's using an Ares Alpha combat gun(Two points recoil comp) with
a
> shock pad (another point.) He's got a strength of 7 (another 2 points
(FoF
> p83) for a grand reduction of 5, bringing his target number (at close
> range, with his smartgun link) to 6. Not bad at all, all things
considered.
Well, gee. Don't forget that it can be dark in those underground hives,
incurring vision modifiers. Is the sammie walking or running? How about
the bugs, are they moving too? All these things need to be kept in mind
when assigning TNs. That's why gun battles take awhile...lots of lead that
doesn't hit anything. This also makes spell casting more deadly (many of
these mods don't apply to spellcasting, except for DMs).
<Snip>
> Quicksilver rides again
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:57:18 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
On Thursday, July 24, 1997 22:42, John E Pederson[SMTP:lobo1@****.COM]
wrote:
> With geasa, Magic Rating is a full 6 (8) :)
BZZZT. Thank you for playing. Geasa do *NOT* give you back magic points.
See p52, Grim II. The only benefit a mage gets from Geasa is the ability to
initiate. If he gives up on geasa, he may *never* initiate.
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:01:07 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 02:57 PM 7/25/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>With geasa, Magic Rating is a full 6 (8) :)
>BZZZT. Thank you for playing. Geasa do *NOT* give you back magic points.
>See p52, Grim II. The only benefit a mage gets from Geasa is the ability to
>initiate. If he gives up on geasa, he may *never* initiate.
True, but I believe this character was being created to illustrate what
*might* be possible under the new Geasa rules suggested for SR3 (hence the
"was: [SR3] Geasa" bit...) in which Geasa would indeed allow someone to
retain their magic rating by taking Geasa. This is not a canonical thread.
Although my contribution works just fine canonically, his Chromium Mage was
made to illustrate what could be done under the proposed system.
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:00:24 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
> Date: Friday, July 25, 1997 2:57 PM
>
> On Thursday, July 24, 1997 22:42, John E Pederson[SMTP:lobo1@****.COM]
> wrote:
>
> > With geasa, Magic Rating is a full 6 (8) :)
> BZZZT. Thank you for playing. Geasa do *NOT* give you back magic points.
> See p52, Grim II. The only benefit a mage gets from Geasa is the ability
to
> initiate. If he gives up on geasa, he may *never* initiate.
Mr. Hurley, you would do well not to be so harsh about your responses. You
would also do well to read the threads related to this post before making a
response.
This thread was about creating a mage using the alternate Geasa rules that
have been discussed for a little while on this list. According to those
alternate rules, this is valid. Those rules is the entire reason this post
(and thread) was made in the first place.
> --
> Quicksilver rides again
Justin
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 21:05:30 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
In-Reply-To: <1494446EF@******.eee.rgu.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Mark Steedman said on 14:31/25 Jul 97...
> I gave up on bugs, the PC's insecticide useage was starting to find
> things they fall for in style, it was either use force 20+ bugs to
> survive the clever attacks with S wounds and cleave all the PC's to
> bits the moment an unhurt one made melee or allow whole scale
> slaughter (these folks killed a force 10 spirit energy 5 queen and
> were reaching the stage where when someone got it right force tens
> were target practice, another couple of fights and i would have been
> for it!). When it came to a hive they just hijacked a whole tanker of
> insecticide and rammed the thing!
When things get that far, I think it's either time to make a new enemy, or
start a new campaign depending on whether the players want to keep
playing their current characters.
> It's not fair!!!!
I have this slight problem that the guy whose right leg got removed in two
different games when I was GMing is about to run an adventure for our
group... I'm thinking about bringing my body armor to the next session :)
> Still they now have Triad, Mob and Yak problems :) and they don't
> fall for that :) muh ha ha.
Two of my three players are currently in hospital with Deadly wounds, and
I think I'll have someone make them an offer they can't refuse...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:10:13 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: Area Spells
On Friday, July 25, 1997 10:31, Mike Elkins[SMTP:MikeE@*********.COM]
wrote:
> Steve Kenson wrote:
> >2) A valid target is one which the caster: a) can
> >see or assense, unaided by technology and,
>
> Point of clarification, please: what about targets
> who are under the effects of invisibility, using
> stealth, a spirit's concealment power etc? The
> casting mage COULD see them if he rolls high
> enough on his perception roll, but what if he
> doesn't even bother to look? In other words,
> does the mage have to "see" them, or "notice"
> them?
The way SRII invisibility works (is game mechanics) is that everybody has a
TN penalty (can be quite huge) to see the person under invis. Ditto trying
to shoot him, etc. If the mage beats that tn penalty on casting, he notices
the guy, and channels a bit of energy his way.
IMHO of course.
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:06:08 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 02:45 PM 7/25/97 -0400, Justin wrote:
>Well, gee. Don't forget that it can be dark in those underground hives,
>incurring vision modifiers. Is the sammie walking or running? How about
>the bugs, are they moving too? All these things need to be kept in mind
>when assigning TNs. That's why gun battles take awhile...lots of lead that
>doesn't hit anything. This also makes spell casting more deadly (many of
>these mods don't apply to spellcasting, except for DMs).
S'why I would never fire full-auto unless I wanted to use cover-fire rules.
Use the first cimple action to aim, the second to fire a three-round burst.
Keeps target numbers VERY low and does damage through increased successes
rather than obscenely high power. I never did understand why people liked
using more than one simple action for firing each round...
But that is neither here nor there... I've missed a great deal of this
thread and I was wondering what this had to do with unarmed combat?
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:25:22 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
On Friday, July 25, 1997 14:45, Justin Pinnow[SMTP:vanyel@*******.NET]
wrote:
> > From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
> > To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> > Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
> > Date: Friday, July 25, 1997 2:43 PM
>
> > On Thursday, July 24, 1997 10:51, John E Pederson[SMTP:lobo1@****.COM]
> > wrote:
> > Oh, I dunno. Example: Snapshot (a PC) honks off a nine-round burst at a
> > target. He's using an Ares Alpha combat gun(Two points recoil comp)
with
> a
> > shock pad (another point.) He's got a strength of 7 (another 2 points
> (FoF
> > p83) for a grand reduction of 5, bringing his target number (at close
> > range, with his smartgun link) to 6. Not bad at all, all things
> considered.
>
> Well, gee. Don't forget that it can be dark in those underground hives,
> incurring vision modifiers. Is the sammie walking or running? How about
> the bugs, are they moving too? All these things need to be kept in mind
> when assigning TNs. That's why gun battles take awhile...lots of lead
that
> doesn't hit anything. This also makes spell casting more deadly (many of
> these mods don't apply to spellcasting, except for DMs).
No kidding. But my point is that all of the recoil has been canceled, by
stuff that only cancels recoil. Those other modifiers apply to ranged
combat whether or not you're firing 1 bullet or 10.
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:26:54 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
On Friday, July 25, 1997 15:01, TopCat[SMTP:topcat@***.NET] wrote:
> At 02:57 PM 7/25/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >>With geasa, Magic Rating is a full 6 (8) :)
>
> >BZZZT. Thank you for playing. Geasa do *NOT* give you back magic points.
> >See p52, Grim II. The only benefit a mage gets from Geasa is the ability to
> >initiate. If he gives up on geasa, he may *never* initiate.
>
> True, but I believe this character was being created to illustrate what
> *might* be possible under the new Geasa rules suggested for SR3 (hence the
> "was: [SR3] Geasa" bit...) in which Geasa would indeed allow someone to
> retain their magic rating by taking Geasa. This is not a canonical thread.
> Although my contribution works just fine canonically, his Chromium Mage was
> made to illustrate what could be done under the proposed system.
> --
> Bob Ooton
> topcat@***.net
Which I realized when I got to the top of my mailbox (I read threads in reverse
alphabetical order)
Apologies to whoever came up with the character..
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:28:40 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
On Friday, July 25, 1997 15:00, Justin Pinnow[SMTP:vanyel@*******.NET] wrote:
> > From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
> > To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> > Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
> > Date: Friday, July 25, 1997 2:57 PM
> >
> > On Thursday, July 24, 1997 22:42, John E Pederson[SMTP:lobo1@****.COM]
> > wrote:
> >
> > > With geasa, Magic Rating is a full 6 (8) :)
>
> > BZZZT. Thank you for playing. Geasa do *NOT* give you back magic points.
> > See p52, Grim II. The only benefit a mage gets from Geasa is the ability
> to
> > initiate. If he gives up on geasa, he may *never* initiate.
>
> Mr. Hurley, you would do well not to be so harsh about your responses. You
> would also do well to read the threads related to this post before making a
> response.
>
> This thread was about creating a mage using the alternate Geasa rules that
> have been discussed for a little while on this list. According to those
> alternate rules, this is valid. Those rules is the entire reason this post
> (and thread) was made in the first place.
I apologize. I hadn't realized (due to not reading the title very closely) that the
character was a result of a proposed rules change.
I'm a little trigger-happy about it because of an incident early in my GMing days.
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:27:24 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
> Date: Friday, July 25, 1997 3:25 PM
>
> On Friday, July 25, 1997 14:45, Justin Pinnow[SMTP:vanyel@*******.NET]
> wrote:
> > > From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
> > > Date: Friday, July 25, 1997 2:43 PM
> > Well, gee. Don't forget that it can be dark in those underground
hives,
> > incurring vision modifiers. Is the sammie walking or running? How
about
> > the bugs, are they moving too? All these things need to be kept in
mind
> > when assigning TNs. That's why gun battles take awhile...lots of lead
> that
> > doesn't hit anything. This also makes spell casting more deadly (many
of
> > these mods don't apply to spellcasting, except for DMs).
> No kidding. But my point is that all of the recoil has been canceled, by
> stuff that only cancels recoil. Those other modifiers apply to ranged
> combat whether or not you're firing 1 bullet or 10.
Okay. The point I am trying to make is that you got the TN down to a 6
before any of these other modifiers were applied. The point you made about
it being easy to hit in such a case just isn't true. That's why I brought
up the other modifiers, and they didn't even include cover mods. You will
be looking at TNs from 8-16 after all these mods are applied...that's not
easy to do.
> --
> Quicksilver rides again
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:46:47 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
On Friday, July 25, 1997 15:27, Justin Pinnow[SMTP:vanyel@*******.NET]
wrote:
> > From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
> > No kidding. But my point is that all of the recoil has been canceled,
by
> > stuff that only cancels recoil. Those other modifiers apply to ranged
> > combat whether or not you're firing 1 bullet or 10.
>
> Okay. The point I am trying to make is that you got the TN down to a 6
> before any of these other modifiers were applied. The point you made
about
> it being easy to hit in such a case just isn't true. That's why I
brought
> up the other modifiers, and they didn't even include cover mods. You
will
> be looking at TNs from 8-16 after all these mods are applied...that's not
> easy to do.
I got the target number down to a 2! before other modifiers applied. (Ares
alpha has 2 points inherent recoil comp & can take barrel-mount
accessories, thus a IGV4 can be added. Add a shock pad and 7 strength to
completely negate the recoil, and a smartgun brings the TN to a 2.)
Now, admittedly, this is an extreme case (not too many weapon/accessory
combos can apply 7 points of recoil comp before strength) but with IGV4,
shock pads, and strength mods running around, even 6round aimed bursts are
possible without too much effort.
But that's not the point. Bugs are faster, and clean up in HtH. Charge the
guy. Sure he drops one, maybe two, before the bugs get there, but then he's
hosed.
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:06:45 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: The Shadowrun Archive Channel
In-Reply-To: <199707251818.MAA22321@******> from "Paolo Marcucci" at Jul
25,
97 08:16:19 pm
Content-Type: text
Paolo Marcucci wrote:
|
| At 11:49 25/07/97 -0600, David Buehrer said:
| >I checked out the new site, which looks great BTW. I clicked on the
| >button to subscribe and it started to download a .cdf file. I have no
| >idea what a .cdf file is, or what it is used for. Help.
|
| You should have ie40 to use the channel function. If you don't have it,
| just browse the site normally, but it won't be sent to you with a daily
| schedule, that is, you should connect and enter the site to see changes.
So I downloaded ie40. The damn thing left me 3.4 megs of space on my
hardrive, and installed that web-interface desktop. Oi! It took me
two hours to get everything straightened out! Thanks loads Paolo ;)
Anyway, I didn't have time to look at it to closely, but on the
surface it looks good. Love that remote :) I'm looking forward to
see how the channel thing works.
For anyone else that plans on downloading ie40, make sure you have at
least 100 megs of free disk space. And to turn off that web/desktop
go to control panel, add/remove programs, and select ie40. After you
click on the remove button it'll give you the option of selectivly
uninstalling parts of it, and that's where you can turn off the
web/desktop.
Oi.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:10:30 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Loseke <mike@******.VERINET.COM>
Subject: Re: The Shadowrun Archive Channel
In-Reply-To: <199707252206.QAA02434@******> from "David Buehrer" at Jul
25,
97 04:06:45 pm
Content-Type: text
Quoth David Buehrer:
>
> Paolo Marcucci wrote:
> |
> | At 11:49 25/07/97 -0600, David Buehrer said:
> | >I checked out the new site, which looks great BTW. I clicked on the
> | >button to subscribe and it started to download a .cdf file. I have no
> | >idea what a .cdf file is, or what it is used for. Help.
> |
> | You should have ie40 to use the channel function. If you don't have it,
> | just browse the site normally, but it won't be sent to you with a daily
> | schedule, that is, you should connect and enter the site to see changes.
>
> So I downloaded ie40. The damn thing left me 3.4 megs of space on my
> hardrive, and installed that web-interface desktop. Oi! It took me
> two hours to get everything straightened out! Thanks loads Paolo ;)
>
> Anyway, I didn't have time to look at it to closely, but on the
> surface it looks good. Love that remote :) I'm looking forward to
> see how the channel thing works.
>
> For anyone else that plans on downloading ie40, make sure you have at
> least 100 megs of free disk space. And to turn off that web/desktop
> go to control panel, add/remove programs, and select ie40. After you
> click on the remove button it'll give you the option of selectivly
> uninstalling parts of it, and that's where you can turn off the
> web/desktop.
All I can say is "Thank God Microsoft doesn't have any control on what
I use as my window manager on Solaris/Linux/NeXT/HP/etc..." ;)
--
| "Remember children: Once you pull the
Mike Loseke | pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend."
mike@*******.com | -- B. Merkley
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:26:31 +0200
Reply-To: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.net>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Hallucinogens in SR
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 18:12:21 -0500, Joshua T Brown wrote:
>Here's a question to throw out to the list and watch get ripped to
>shreds....
>(I've always viewed starting a new thread around here as the Email
>equivalent to throwing a bloody steak into a pit filled with underfed
>rottweilers...<smirk>)
Interesting analogy :)
>Any ideas on the game mechanics/effects for the use of hallucinogens in
>SR? Peyote, LSD, Shrooms... How hard might they be to acquire? How might
Perhaps you can buy a lot of them at your talismonger, especially if
he/she/it is shamanic. And then there will be the "normal" illegal drug
market.
>they affect Magicians, especially shamans? (Keeping in mind the native
>belief in peyote as a method of inducing visions and becoming closer to
>the spirits) What nasty side affects might certain hallucinogens have
Let them affect shamans just like you suggested :) well, might mean
they are better at everything astral, but of course distracted from the
physical world. Astral perception might work better, perhaps
hallucinations prove to be views into astral ... Hey, there arise great
ideas to introduce shamans to magic ... in our campaign one player's
character is a boy just getting a shaman ... hallucinogens might help
him developing astral perception ...
Well, back to my point (if there is one). In little doses, a
hallucinogen might work just like using dual perception, that is +2 to
everything mundane (IIRC). Higer doses could make that modifier higher,
and in turn making things on astral level easier. For every two points
higer in physical world I'd give one bonuspoint on astral - up to a sum
of modifiers equal to willpower. Above that the character would take a
mental M-damage and lose all modifiers.
Example:
Shaman with willpower 4 takes enough Peyote to get 2/1 modifiers.
Spellcasting in astral plane would be one point easier, while running
away from mundane threads would get two points more difficult. The sum
of the modifiers is 3.
If he took more to get a better result he would get a 3/1 or even 4/2
modifier. 3/1 would be okay but gives no benefit, and 4/2 would be too
much: M damage.
(I would _not_ explain this rule to the player but let them find out
...)
A big hangover after using the drugs should be awarded ... and, of
course, flashbacks <EGMG>
I think these rules should not apply to hermetic magicians, but perhaps
it might be useful to allow mundane peolpe to use magic or astral
perception ... drug-induced temporarily astral perception syndrome
DITAPS - I like the idea, so I will keep the rules ...
Hope my 0.02 DM help you :)
--
Arno
*********************************************************************
Be careful when replying to this mail - check the address !!!
(And send me a note when you notice that
the reply-to-address points to the list!)
*********************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 17:12:04 +0200
Reply-To: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.net>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Bull-Bot [OT] was: Re: Two quick questions...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:27:00 -0400, Bull wrote:
>+++++ AUTO OFF TOPIC RANDOM GENERATOR v3.0 INITIATED
>+++++ TOPIC #410
>
>Do you know the Secret SR Handshake, and own the SR Secret Decoder Ring?
>
>+++++ END AUTO GREET
>
>Bull-the-welcome-Ork-Decker
Hey Bull, one could say that this was on-topic ... faults are getting
regular again, once more a repair might be necessary ... Spike, that
would be your job, wouldn't it?
One could even say that the last part of the sentence implied an
advertisement which would have to be paid ;p
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:58:00 +0200
Reply-To: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.net>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [Admin] Misc and FAQ Stuff
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:12:38 +0100, Spike wrote:
>I know someone who had Win95 on one, linus on another and I think OS2 on a
>third..... ^^^^^ really ???
Only really practicable if you use OS/2. The bootmanager shipped with
it is the only thing that makes a multi-OS computer usable IMO. Of
course having OS/2 is a good thing even without that bootmanager :) So
lets start an OS-war.
<yawn>I'll simply ignore it ...
--
Arno
*********************************************************************
Be careful when replying to this mail - check the address !!!
(And send me a note when you notice that
the reply-to-address points to the list!)
*********************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 20:01:00 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Bull-Bot [OT] was: Re: Two quick questions...
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 05:12 PM 7/25/97 +0200, Arno R. Lehmann wrote these timeless words:
>On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 10:27:00 -0400, Bull wrote:
>
>>+++++ AUTO OFF TOPIC RANDOM GENERATOR v3.0 INITIATED
>>+++++ TOPIC #410
>>
>>Do you know the Secret SR Handshake, and own the SR Secret Decoder Ring?
>>
>>+++++ END AUTO GREET
>>
>>Bull-the-welcome-Ork-Decker
>
>Hey Bull, one could say that this was on-topic ... faults are getting
>regular again, once more a repair might be necessary ... Spike, that
>would be your job, wouldn't it?
>
Heh... nahh.... This was silly enough to be OT... Trust me, if the die
hards would complain about the Tickle Me Dunky at Christmas, this would
REALLY throw them for a loop...:]
(BTW: Collectors say the Tickle-Me-Hestaby is now considered a collector's
item for some reason. It's become REALLY hard to find. Appaerntly, not
many were made... <shrug> )
>One could even say that the last part of the sentence implied an
>advertisement which would have to be paid ;p
>
Nope... only if I was selling something... If I _HAD_ SR SDR's (Secret
Decoder Rings), i'd give them out for free...;]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 20:01:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:51 PM 7/24/97 -0400, Sir Philos Nex wrote these timeless words:
>Greets everyone... my first post in this mailing list! :)
>
Well then... Welcome aboard, and it's time for the BOT to do it's thing...:]
+++++ BULL-BOT ACTIVATED
+++++ AUTO GREET INITIATED
Hello there, new list-member Philos! Welcome to the Shadowrn Mailing List!
It's a great place, with good people and great discussion! hope ya like mail!
+++++ AUTO OFF TOPIC RANDOM GENERATOR v3.0 INITIATED
+++++ TOPIC #720
Grover. You seek Grover. Powerful Muppet is he. Powerful Muppet.
+++++ END AUTO GREET
Bull-the-Welcome-Ork-Decker
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 19:01:24 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Joshua T Brown <spamquat@****.COM>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage
TopCat's Chromed Mage.....
><BIG snip>
>As this character gains in karma, he'll increase few things....
>1) Sorcery - for increased sorcery pool>
Huh?
><snip the rest of it, too, what the hell...>
Why exactly do you want to increase his magic pool? He already has more
than he knows what to do with.... The maximum number of dice that can be
allocated for magical tests is equal to the _Magic Rating_, not the force
of the spell or any other value IIRC. In this case it is 1. Kinda cuts
back on the neccessity for a high sorcery, doesn't it? And with 7 dice at
his command for Casting and Drain, instead of 12, he's not nearly as
beasty, or am I missing something?
==============================================================
The Kumquat -- Josh Brown -- Kumquat@*****.com -- Spamquat@****.com --
Shadowrun Page Still Under Development -- Coming Soon!
"Support Whirled Peas" -- <smirk> -- "Whatever, Man" --
"Woo Hoo!" --
....Don't hate me Because I'm... ahh, screw it, hate me. <smirk>
==============================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 19:12:57 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Joshua T Brown <spamquat@****.COM>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
>> True, but I believe this character was being created to illustrate
>what
>> *might* be possible under the new Geasa rules suggested for SR3
>(hence the
>> "was: [SR3] Geasa" bit...) in which Geasa would indeed allow someone
>to
>> retain their magic rating by taking Geasa. This is not a canonical
>thread.
>> Although my contribution works just fine canonically, his Chromium
>Mage was
>> made to illustrate what could be done under the proposed system.
>> --
Ahhh... Nevermind.... makes sense now.... though he's still pretty
bad-ass w/o all the extra dice to roll for spells... mebbe swap out the
sheathing... bam... powergamer's wet dream.
>Which I realized when I got to the top of my mailbox (I read threads
>in reverse alphabetical order)
>
Don't ya hate that? I made a similar mistake... luckily, we have poor
mailers to blame it all on....
==============================================================
The Kumquat -- Josh Brown -- Kumquat@*****.com -- Spamquat@****.com --
Shadowrun Page Still Under Development -- Coming Soon!
"Support Whirled Peas" -- <smirk> -- "Whatever, Man" --
"Woo Hoo!" --
....Don't hate me Because I'm... ahh, screw it, hate me. <smirk>
==============================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 02:55:31 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: [Admin] Misc and FAQ Stuff
In-Reply-To: <199707252335.XAA108258@****.ibm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:12:38 +0100, Spike wrote:
> So
>lets start an OS-war.
##### # # # # ## #####
# # # # # # # # #
# ###### # # # # # #
# # # # ## # ###### #####
# # # ## ## # # #
# # # # # # # #
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 10:58:58 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: [OT] AltMagick group
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Does anybody kno about the Alt Magick group, it as listed somehere hen I
> as surfing for more SR stuff so it might have been on one of you pages.
> feel free to respond via personal e-mail and thanks for the help :)
Having a bit of trouble with that 'W' key are you?
Ray.
-----------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, and whatever happens,|
| You will not be missed |
-----------------------------------------------------
EMAIL: macey@*******.com.au
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:34:12 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Bugs and Guns (a long time ago was: the uac dilemma)
On Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:06:08 -0500 TopCat <topcat@***.NET> writes:
>But that is neither here nor there... I've missed a great deal of this
>thread and I was wondering what this had to do with unarmed combat?
At this point, not a whole lot:) It started out on unarmed combat, got
over to bugs and ItNW, from there to bugs, firearms and ItNW, and now
just bugs and guns (sorta:) I guess that would be the 'drift' thing they
keep talking about, huh:)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:34:11 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 21:43:25 -0700 Michael Paff <mikepaff@***.COM>
writes:
>>Okay, here goes (I used rules _as_written_, not necessarily as
>intended,
>>and did not limit myself to the main book:)
>>
>> With geasa, Magic Rating is a full 6 (8) :)
>>
>Which 5 geasa did you plan for this character?
Well, I was figuring on Incantation and Gesture, Talisman (one of the
foci, most likely:) Domain (or Time, one or the other) and probably he
winds up with the Focus Geas from Awakenings (what with the various
foci:)
>>BIOWARE
>>---------
>>Cerebral Booster 1
>>Trauma Damper
>>
>An official ruling needs to be made as to how the Trauma Damper
>affects
>spellcasters (does it offset drain, is there any risk to Magic like
>stimpatches). Hopefully it will be addressed in SR3.
In the meantime, it's the single most useful piece of bioware for a
magician:):) With the possible exception of the Cerebral Booster (the
only thing on earth that boosts Astral Quickness:)
>>I don't know that the Chromium Mage there is all that munch
>(powerful,
>>but nearly crippled by the low physical attributes), but that's what
>I
>>came up with. I would have sprung for a Panther Cannon:) but I was on
>a
>>budget, and really wanted the foci:):)
>>
>On the subject of foci, with the variable Magic attribute that mages
>would have under the proposed change, which value is used to determine
>focus addiction?
Well, you could go the complicated route and rule that it's based on the
current one:) So that the moment he misses that 5th geas <EGMG>
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:34:12 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Bugs and Guns (a long time ago was: the uac dilemma)
On Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:43:30 -0400 Jonathan Hurley
<jhurley1@************.EDU> writes:
>> Yes, and on an average roll, the sammie wouldn't have hit the broad
>side
>> of a very large barn with that full auto burst (the sammie's TN
>would
>> have been at least 13, 12 or 11 with a laser sight or smartlink,
>> respectively).
>
<<Oh, I dunno. Example: Snapshot (a PC) honks off a nine-round burst at a
target. He's using an Ares Alpha combat gun(Two points recoil comp) with
a shock pad (another point.) He's got a strength of 7 (another 2 points
(FoF p83) for a grand reduction of 5, bringing his target number (at
close range, with his smartgun link) to 6. Not bad at all, all things
considered. If he was using a weapon with IGV4, he'd be looking at 4's
for a target number. Because of the way the Ares Alpha description is
worded, he could *add* the IGV4 to the weapon and get his TN down to 2.
(The weapon offers 2 points of recoil comp, *and* can take barrel mounted
accessories. Now I see why this weapon is so hard to get.)>>
Shh! I've got a player on this list:)
You might remember, however, that I didn't use an Ares Alpha (which, btw,
seems to be no harder to get than a AK-98, unless the figures I've got
are a bit screwed up (don't have FoF)). The AK doesn't come with any
recoil comp, doesn't come with any sighting stuff. It's a vanilla assault
rifle (if such a thing exists:) And I didn't use the Strength=>Recoil
rules from FoF (they're optional, after all:) So, I'd say my example
still stands:):) The fact is, your example is valid, just not what I was
talking about. So, even assuming an IGV4, Smartgun I, and Shock Pads on
the AK-98, you've got a Target Number of at least 6. Let's say partial
light and light smoke or fog (for visual effect and all:) and you're back
up to a 12. Remove the smoke, you've got an 8. Let's say buggy-boy is
running (+2) and that our friendly neighborhood chrome monster is also
walking, over difficult ground (ant hive, tunnels, low ceilings, rough
floors, etc:) and you're back at that 12. With a strenght of eight
there's another 2 points of recoil comp and you've got a ten, but let's
say the bug also has partial cover...etc, etc. How complicated do you
want to make it?
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 20:13:07 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Paff <mikepaff@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [GC] A Drive in the Country
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>I did preregister and I did get into A Drive in the Country. I got my
>>>prereg tickets yesterday and the interesting thing is that it lists Jill
>>>Lucas as the GM for this event.
>>>
>I'm in it as well now, so... gee... how many listmembers will be playing
>in that event?? :]
>
I'll be there! If it's like some tournament events we'll be able
to form our own teams (if anyone is interested).
>>>Anyway, I'm very excited. I got in to every game I signed up for, with
>>>only one (The Babylon Project) being shifted to a different time. It's
>>>going to be a busy 4 days!
>>
>Lucky you... Looks like I missed out on a couple games I signed up for...
>Drive in the Country was the only event I ended up with a ticket for...
>but I've got planty of Generic Tickets now...:]
>
I got lucky as well. I ended up with 6 of my 7 primary choices (4 are for
SR games), and one of my alternates. Not like two years ago when they lost
my pre-reg and all I was able to get was generics.
Mike Paff
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:18:05 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:54:27 -0600"
<33D8317A.F918580F@*********.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> OK what if he says he'll take a geasa of having to have something with
> him(can't think of the name) and he says the cybereyes are that thing?
> how about seeing, would this count as normal sight? would he be able to
> cast LOS spells at anything he sees? how about if he hat a transmiter
> that racieved a picture of somewhere else, could he cast a spell on
> that? It is a good system but still needs some work. :-)
Of course, cybereyes always still count as normal vision (paid for with
Essence, man, there a *part* of you).
What does the transmitted image have to do with this??
I'm not quite sure you're still on the same thread, here... or maybe you need
to clear some things up.
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:20:37 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Fri, 25 Jul 1997 13:06:58 +0300"
<Pine.SUN.3.96.970725125834.1930A-100000@********.csd.uch.gr>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
You wrote:
> c) What happens upon initiation ?
> MV=> Either gain a new Magic Point and keep the geas or lose the geas
> without droping in Magic rating. (Actualy abandon the geas, losing a point
> that is instantly regained free of geasa.)
Exactly.
> And what is that I hear about using geasa to counter cyberware?
> I thought geasa where used to counter magic loss due to wounds etc., not
> due to essence loss. Essence loss should remove Magic points permanently,
> without any options for keeping them (You are making yourself weaker and
> unable to hold his full potential of astral energy).
losses of Magic to anything are treated the same. You lose it to cyber, it's
the same as a loss to a deadly wound, et cetera. It's been that way since 1st
ed.
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 01:06:40 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>:
> Example: Talon tosses a manaball at a security mage, two corp guards and
an
> elemental the mage has hanging around in astral space. Talon can see the
mage
> and one guard. The other guard is up against the wall on the other side
of
> the open doorway. The elemental is hovering near the sec-mage in astral
form.
> Talon targets using his normal vision. He can see the mage and one guard
> unaided and targets his manaball in their midst. The elemental and the
other
> guard are within the radius of the spell, but they are not affected
because
> Talon cannot see them and therefor cannot form a magical link with them.
The
> mage and the corp guard make Spell Resistance Tests while the elemental
and
> the other guard are unaffected.
>>>>Question: why isn't the Elemental included? I understand your
reasoning,
but astral perception is used (albeit briefly) during spellcasting in order
to synch...er target all the beings in the area. Thus, during that time,
all the targets of the spell are established...wouldn't this include the
Elemental then?<<<<<
Because the moment of awareness of the astral plane is so brief and
sub-conscious as to be nearly unnoticable. It's not usable for assensing and,
therefore, useless for targeting. In the example above, Talon forms a magical
link with his potential targets using his physical vision. When he throws the
spell, his sense open to astral space for a microsecond as the spell energy
surges from him to his target(s). IMHO, he doesn't even have time to look
around and go "oh, look, an elemental."
I think part of the problem is the current example about "synchronizing
auras" in SR2 makes it sound like the caster uses astral perception, looks
around, carefully and methodically matches his aura to the target(s) and lets
fly when in fact (IMHO) the whole process happens in a single, almost
instinctive, action before the caster has a chance to be aware of anything on
the astral. A spellcaster hinks about synchronizing auras no more tthan a
trained martial artist thinks about making a block in the middle of a fight.
It just happens; trained reflex.
Steve K.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 01:06:43 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
Gurth <gurth@******.NL> wrote:
>With that last bit, do you mean that a) the geas-restricted Magic points
>get replaced by non-geas MPs, in other words that the geas gets removed
>from the MP but the magician gains no additional MP; or b) that the
>character gains an MP as normal but simply doesn't bother sticking to the
>geas for the "lost" MP? Hmm, this may need a "for instance"...
>
>For instance, Jeff the grade 0 initiate loses a magic point (somebody
>shot off his arm and he failed his magic loss check). He chooses a geas of
>gesturing for the lost MP, so if he gestures he has a Magic rating of 6,
>while if he doesn't, it's 5.
>Then he initiates to grade 1. If using method A, he'd have a Magic rating
>of 6 and no geas; with method B his Magic rating is 6 if he doesn't
>gesture, and 7 when he does.
>
>I'm in favor of allowing the player to choose which of the two (s)he
>wants.
As am I. I meant to say pretty much the same thing you said, only I think you
probably said it a little more clearly. Essentially speaking, under the
proposed system, Initiation has no real effect on geasa. It just increases
the Magic attribute. Whether or not the character chooses to permanently drop
the geased Magic point (thereby losing it) is actually a seperate choice. A
character who is initiating is simply getting new Magic points they can use
to replace geased ones if they choose to get rid of them.
That's a pretty long-winded way of saying, yes, that's how I see it working
too : )
Steve K.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 01:06:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM> wrote:
>Steve Kenson wrote:
>>2) A valid target is one which the caster: a) can
>>see or assense, unaided by technology and,
>Point of clarification, please: what about targets
>who are under the effects of invisibility, using
>stealth, a spirit's concealment power etc? The
>casting mage COULD see them if he rolls high
>enough on his perception roll, but what if he
>doesn't even bother to look? In other words,
>does the mage have to "see" them, or "notice"
>them?
In all of those cases I would have the gamemaster make a secret Perception
Test for the spellcaster against the target in question. If the caster makes
it, then he can see the target well enough to cast a spell at them (perhaps
with a TN penalty for the target still having some visual cover). If the
caster blows the Perception Test, then they can't see the target and the
target is not a valid one (even for an area spell).
Of course, if a magician has reason to suspect an invisible ormagically
concealed opponent, he can just switch to astral perception and zap them that
way.
Steve K.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 01:06:51 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK> writes:
>Steve Kenson <talonmail@***.com> writes:
>> This is how all area-effect combat spells (and other area-type spells like
>> Chaos) work. The only exception is Damaging Manipulations, which create a
>> real, physical medium the caster directs at the targets. The blast radius
of
>> a damaging manipulation affects all physical targets in the area of
effect,
>> whether the caster can see them or not.
>
>The one we could use here is LOS and damaging manipulations. Is the
>TN to hit the security guard behind the door in your example [i
>snipped] with a flamebomb (he being immune to anything but a DM)
>landed in the middle of the doorway betwwen Mr mage and guard 1 a 4
>'because you have a clear LOS on the doorway' or a 12 'becasue the
>target is invisible +8 for blind fire'?
The corp guard under full cover gets hit by the DM spell from the center of
the spell's blast radius, just as if it were a grenade, so he gets no TN
bonus for "cover" unless he has cover relative to the spell's "ground
zero"
(ie, a barrier between him and the blast). The caster wasn't necessarily
targeting the guard (since he didn't even know the guard was there) but the
DM affects everyone in the area, just like a normal explosion. If the caster
were throwing, say, Flame Volt, and knew there was someone hidden behind the
wall and wanted to shoot through the specifically wall at him, then he would
have to take the +8 "Blind Fire" modifier just like any other ranged
attacker.
>And clear up what the descriptions imply but the rules don't state
>that the elemental is immune to the flamebomb even if the mage
>casting it is astrally percepting because the spell is dual but
>explodes on the physical plane only 'because the magical flame must
>have a physical component'.
Correct. In fact, even if the spell were Powerball, the elemental would not
be affected. In my rough outline of the SR3 magic rules, a Physical spell
will not affect a target with no physical body, like a spirit in astral form.
So, yes, even if the caster were using astral perception, the flame bomb
wouldn't affect the elemental at all.
>Similarly that you cannot cast DM's while
>astrally projecting (as astral magicians have no armour thay are FAR
>too lethal were this to be allowed).
Again, correct. DMs are different from combat spells in that they ground at
the CASTER'S location, creating an elemental medium, which the caster then
magically projects as a normal Ranged Attack. Therefore, DMs require the
caster to be in his physical body in order to cast them, they cannot travel
through astral space alone.
>It might also be worth making
>the 'no projecting and sustaining spells' rule clearer.
Basically, as I see it, leaving and returning to your body are Exclusive
activities, so you cannot be Sustaining any spells, or performing any other
magical activities, on the Action when you astrally project or return to your
physical body. Both actions take a lot of concentration. Not only that but
(IMHO) you also cannot perform other Exclusive activities (casting Exclusive
spells or summoning spirits) while Astral Projecting since it is also a
"magical activity" and thererfor prevents the performance of Exclusive feats.
Astral Perception is a more passive activity, and so does not affect
Exclusive actions. You can cast a spell, then switch to astral perception
while sustaining it, but if you then want to astral project, you have to drop
the spell in order to do it.
>And while we
>are at it clear up the effect of initiate shielding and damaging
>manipulations, does it as i belive rasie the effective body but not
>the 'fixed' TN4 which is the same as spell defence, or does it plain
>rasie TN's in which case initiates with some shielding left are
>utterly immune to magic (unless the rule stating you need net
>successes to hurt peple with magic is revoked, which is a house rule
>i use).
Here I must disagree. Although DMs create an actual physical medium to damage
their targets, this matter or energy is still sustained and directed by magic
and, therefore, can be deflected by magical defenses (such as Spell Defense
and Shielding).
However, Shielding does not necessarily make an Initiate invulnerable to
magic. Sure, if an Initiate goes full-defensive and pours all of his Magic
Pool into Shielding, then he's going to be very hard to affect with spells,
but that's as it should be, IMHO. There are still several other factors:
1) DMs, unlike combat spells, must be reduced like normal combat damage. The
Spell Resistance Test for a DM is actually a Damage Resistance Test, so the
Initiate is going to NEED those extra dice if he wants to reduce the damage
of a Flame Bomb with 2-3 successes down to nothing.
2) I allow other Initiates to use Centering to offset the penalties of an
opponent's Shielding, focusing their power through the shield. I don't know
if this will find it's way into the rules, but, as I see it, Shielding
imposes a TN penalty, and Centering allows an Initiate to overcome TN
penalties, so...
3) Lastly, a magician up against a heavily shielding Initiate simply has to
be SMARTER. I'm reminded of the scene from Bob Charrette's second book
(CHOOSE YOUR ENEMIES CAREFULLY, I believe) where the evil Archdruid confronts
Hart and sneers how his shielding and anti-bullet barrier make him
invulnerable and Hart just says "whatever" and blows the floor out from under
him. He hits the dirt, stunned, dropping his spells and defenses, and she
shoots him dead. Flame bomb can't get through the guy's shielding? Bet it can
take down the roof above his head, then...
Whew, that's enough thinking for me at 1:00 AM. I'm outta here...
Steve K.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:14:18 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:01 PM 7/25/97 -0500, Joshua wrote:
>Why exactly do you want to increase his magic pool? He already has more
>than he knows what to do with.... The maximum number of dice that can be
>allocated for magical tests is equal to the _Magic Rating_, not the force
>of the spell or any other value IIRC. In this case it is 1. Kinda cuts
>back on the neccessity for a high sorcery, doesn't it? And with 7 dice at
>his command for Casting and Drain, instead of 12, he's not nearly as
>beasty, or am I missing something?
Drain can have as many dice thrown into it as one wishes...(pg. 85 SR2).
Whne this guy is casting force 12 spells, he'll need all the drain dice he
can find. Also, spell defense dice are very important. It adds to the
whole invincibility factor...
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 01:53:19 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
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> From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
> Date: Saturday, July 26, 1997 1:06 AM
> Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK> writes:
> >Steve Kenson <talonmail@***.com> writes:
<Snippity snip snip>
> >And while we
> >are at it clear up the effect of initiate shielding and damaging
> >manipulations, does it as i belive rasie the effective body but not
> >the 'fixed' TN4 which is the same as spell defence, or does it plain
> >rasie TN's in which case initiates with some shielding left are
> >utterly immune to magic (unless the rule stating you need net
> >successes to hurt peple with magic is revoked, which is a house rule
> >i use).
> Here I must disagree. Although DMs create an actual physical medium to
damage
> their targets, this matter or energy is still sustained and directed by
magic
> and, therefore, can be deflected by magical defenses (such as Spell
Defense
> and Shielding).
Okay, I know this has been raised in the past, but I don't recall the
outcome. I am curious to know how people use Shielding and Combat Pool
dice in relation to DM spells. Allowing a mage to shield against a DM and
jump out of the way (thus using Combat Pool) would make it far too easy to
not get damaged by a DM. However, they both should apply somehow according
to the game mechanics.
One possible suggestion would be to now allow the Shielding to increase the
TN for casting the spell (thus, it would still remain a 4), but would
increase the dice rolled to resist the spell, as usual. Then, Combat Pool
dice could be used as normal. Is this too weird?
<More Snippage>
Well, I must say that I am VERY grateful for the clarifications you made in
this post, Steve. :) You really quantified a lot of thought I have on
some areas of magic and clarified a few points that I really thought needed
clarification. :) Not bad for 1am. Not bad for anytime. :)
> Whew, that's enough thinking for me at 1:00 AM. I'm outta here...
> Steve K.
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 01:54:39 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Bugs and Guns (a long time ago was: the uac dilemma)
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At 10:34 PM 7/25/97 EDT, you wrote:
>>But that is neither here nor there... I've missed a great deal of this
>>thread and I was wondering what this had to do with unarmed combat?
>At this point, not a whole lot:) It started out on unarmed combat, got
>over to bugs and ItNW, from there to bugs, firearms and ItNW, and now
>just bugs and guns (sorta:) I guess that would be the 'drift' thing they
>keep talking about, huh:)
And you all know that *I* would never do anything like drift in a topic... heh
Thanks for the clarification. I wish I wouldn't have thrown away all of the
uac stuff, I might've found something good to yammer on about in there... ah
well, there'll be other topics :)
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 18:04:57 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
In-Reply-To: <33D861FC.249463EE@*********.net>
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> > ... or a baseball bat covered with insecticide... that's the only way we
> > lived through bug city.
>
> My players in a Bug City campaign coated themselves in DEET (a no
> bullshit bug repellant) during a hive attack. Had to give em the target
> # mods for that; I failed to consider the idea myself :/ Gotta watch
> them players, I swear! :)
I hope you killed them shortly afterwards from nerve damage. Spraying
bug spray on weapons is one thing - you can spray it so thick it's
dripping off the weapon. i wouldn't want to spray the stuff on myself,
though - it's a rather nasty nerve toxin.
I also wouldn't say that the sort of insect spray intended for spraying
on yourself would hurt the bugs much - that's an insect REPELLANT. What
you need to hurt them is an INSECTICIDE. Chemically different, stronger,
and NOT the sort of thing I want to spray on myself.
Lady Jestyr
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 14:54:40 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
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At 24-Jul-97 wrote J. Keith Henry:
>Oh god I can see it now (actually, I've had a few players with character and
>these skills...hey Barbie, where's your Seduction Skill? A cat shaman I once
>knew would have considered you an amateur.
Oh God? what have you in mind?
An amateur maybe but I`m starting this kind of work lately.
Doing it mainly for just two years IC time.
Seduction, ops I forgot this one (shame on me) 20 :-)
And I get a -4 to all TN# against the opposite gender this plus my
rediculus high charisma rating does well enough.
In an live performance I had once an perfomence rating off over 1100.
>Actually, depends on your point of view...Victor considered Binder's
>Enchanting Skill to be high for -his game-, so I am certain that some/many
>will consider the above frighteningly high. Hell, for Binder-Uncensored, the
>above are pretty fair to outright excellent.
Thats true our powerlevel is in our old charactergroup fairly high.
Me going for 512 karma the rest between 450 and 300.
And we are six and up most of the time.
Most of them have some skill in the range of 12 to 20.
Mainly for their main field of activity but some are just for "hobby"
skills like painting dance or so.
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 10:11:59 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Kristling the Weird <kristlingweird@*********.COM>
Organization: Founder & Supreme Dictator for Life, Lightmoon Project
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
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Lady Jestyr wrote:
>
> > > ... or a baseball bat covered with insecticide... that's the only way we
> > > lived through bug city.
> >
> > My players in a Bug City campaign coated themselves in DEET (a no
> > bullshit bug repellant) during a hive attack. Had to give em the target
> > # mods for that; I failed to consider the idea myself :/ Gotta watch
> > them players, I swear! :)
>
> I hope you killed them shortly afterwards from nerve damage. Spraying
> bug spray on weapons is one thing - you can spray it so thick it's
> dripping off the weapon. i wouldn't want to spray the stuff on myself,
> though - it's a rather nasty nerve toxin.
Okay. Sure. Then how come I don't die using modren bug repellents? The
active ingrident in them these days IS DEET! Maybe we should step back
from a sec... If it's pure DEET, then yah. If it's a commercial product,
no.
--So first I get the Corbalist Crystal....
Kristling The Weird
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/5482/
kristlingweird@*********.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 11:46:00 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
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> From: Kristling the Weird <kristlingweird@*********.COM>
> Date: Saturday, July 26, 1997 10:11 AM
> Lady Jestyr wrote:
> > I hope you killed them shortly afterwards from nerve damage. Spraying
> > bug spray on weapons is one thing - you can spray it so thick it's
> > dripping off the weapon. i wouldn't want to spray the stuff on myself,
> > though - it's a rather nasty nerve toxin.
> Okay. Sure. Then how come I don't die using modren bug repellents? The
> active ingrident in them these days IS DEET! Maybe we should step back
> from a sec... If it's pure DEET, then yah. If it's a commercial product,
> no.
My feeling has always been that Bugs are supposed to be hard to kill. Bugs
are supposed to be feared, even by veteran Shadowrunners. I think it's way
too easy to kill the Bugs if you treat them as having the Vulerability to
Insecticides as written in the rules. I would halve the effects of the
insecticide on them. Yes, they look a lot like giant bugs. However, they
are from another realm, thus it is easy to justify Insecticides not even
working on them at all.
But that's just an optional thing. Under the standard rules, it's easy to
kill them with insecticides.
> --So first I get the Corbalist Crystal....
> Kristling The Weird
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 12:55:33 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "David R. Lowe" <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
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At 1:06 AM 7/26/97, Steve Kenson wrote:
<snip stuff about area affect spells>
OK, how bout this? Does glass stop LOS astrally. I know it doesn't affect
non-DM spells if the mage is targeting normally, but would it prevent a
target from being affected if the mage was using astral sight to target? We
have ruled that glass does block astral LOS, but I wonder if there are any
other opininons...
D.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 16:25:36 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Sat, 26 Jul 1997 12:55:33 -0700"
<v01540b00afffa4d43d10@[140.174.162.214]>
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You wrote:
> At 1:06 AM 7/26/97, Steve Kenson wrote:
> <snip stuff about area affect spells>
> OK, how bout this? Does glass stop LOS astrally. I know it doesn't affect
> non-DM spells if the mage is targeting normally, but would it prevent a
> target from being affected if the mage was using astral sight to target? We
> have ruled that glass does block astral LOS, but I wonder if there are any
> other opininons...
Can I ask why you ruled that it bolcks LOS on the astral? Glass is glass, it's
transparent, you see through it, I don't know why that should change on the
astral...
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 22:28:59 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <runefo@***.uio.no>
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Organization: The University of Oslo
Subject: Re: [SR3] Karma and Attributes
In-Reply-To: <199707081721.LAA20975@******>
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> [snip: x2 vs x1 for cost to increase Attributes]
> |
> | Still somewhat abuseable that way as well. My house rule (and
> | somebody else's on the list as well so it's got to be good B>]# ) is that
> | every increase in attributes after CharGen costs new attribute level
> | times the number of increase it is. Therefor the first increase is the
> | standard 1 times, the second is 2 times, the third is 3 times, etc. This
> | greatly discourages starting with lower stats and working your way up to
> | straight 6's. This was a problem in our games here until we added that
> | rule. Something like this would be great in SR3.
>
> Doh! I forgot about that one (suprise :) Question: do you apply the
> x2 multiplier when increasing stats beyond racial maximum in addition
> to the multiplier per increase? I.e., if a character started at 6,
> increased to 7, and now wants to increase to 8 does it cost (8 x2 x2)
> 32 karma?
I'm one of those other people that posted that house rule, and I do
not use it that way. (Adds a +2 multiplier when above racial stats,
that is, I don't.). Each attribute is pipped when it's
increased, and (pips*0.5+1)*next attribute value is the karma cost.
I use 0.5, david used 1. I suspect 1 is a bit harsh, but that's
me.
On another note: Increasing cybered, uncybered and magically
increased/boosted stats...
There's a discrepancy here.
Mr. Street samurai with muscle replacement 4 has to pay (say, 5+1) +
4 * 3 (basic rules) karma to increase his strength to 10. (30
karma.). A mage with Increase Strength spell locked just turns off
the lock, increases the attribute, and reactivates the lock. Pays 21
karma. What would happen if the sammie can deactivate the muscle
replacement? Also, the physad with boosted strenght compared to the
physad with (incr. attrib. strength) ?
It would be easier, and more balanced, IMHO, to let everyone increase
their attributes at a cost as if they were unaugmented and unaltered
from their natural value.
(Just thought of a new use of the 'decrease attribute' spell... :) )
Lastly, sorry if this has been discussed to death. I got back from
holidays with 2500 mails in the shadowrn folder... I kinda thought
for 1/5th of a second and deleted'em.).
--
Fade
And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 22:28:59 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <runefo@***.uio.no>
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Organization: The University of Oslo
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
In-Reply-To: <v01540b00afffa4d43d10@[140.174.162.214]>
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> OK, how bout this? Does glass stop LOS astrally. I know it doesn't affect
> non-DM spells if the mage is targeting normally, but would it prevent a
> target from being affected if the mage was using astral sight to target? We
> have ruled that glass does block astral LOS, but I wonder if there are any
> other opininons...
I seem to remember reading that since the basic nature of glass is
transparency (it's its intention, mood, whatever) it is transparent
in astral space too.
But if that was a player arguing with me, something in a rulebook, or
whatever, I do not remember. But it sounds ok - and I prefer astral
space to look and work as 'normal' as possible (while still allowing
for a lot of artistic freedom for the GM, of course.... did I say
artistic? I meant sadistic. :)
--
Fade
And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 16:58:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [Admin] Misc and FAQ Stuff
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Arno R. Lehmann once dared to write,
> :) So lets start an OS-war.
OK. I win! B>]#
><yawn>I'll simply ignore it ...
But I was about to do my victory dance. B>[#
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 14:46:22 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "David R. Lowe" <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 4:25 PM 7/26/97, Wendy Wanders, Subject 117 wrote:
>
>Can I ask why you ruled that it bolcks LOS on the astral? Glass is glass, it's
>transparent, you see through it, I don't know why that should change on the
>astral...
>
Ooops. Just reread the BBB. P 145 "transparent objects retain that quality..."
Still. I think it would be more interesting to judge that since glass is
just a big sheet of inaninimate matter, it act any other similar object on
the astral. Just to mess with the pc's pre-conceptions.
D.
I would've asked about grounding through glass, but the answer is obvious.
How else do you get "ground glass"?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 18:02:28 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Karma and Attributes
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: [SR3] Karma and Attributes
> Date: Saturday, July 26, 1997 6:28 PM
<Snip>
> On another note: Increasing cybered, uncybered and magically
> increased/boosted stats...
> There's a discrepancy here.
> Mr. Street samurai with muscle replacement 4 has to pay (say, 5+1) +
> 4 * 3 (basic rules) karma to increase his strength to 10. (30
> karma.). A mage with Increase Strength spell locked just turns off
> the lock, increases the attribute, and reactivates the lock. Pays 21
> karma. What would happen if the sammie can deactivate the muscle
> replacement? Also, the physad with boosted strenght compared to the
> physad with (incr. attrib. strength) ?
> It would be easier, and more balanced, IMHO, to let everyone increase
> their attributes at a cost as if they were unaugmented and unaltered
> from their natural value.
> (Just thought of a new use of the 'decrease attribute' spell... :) )
Which would get just as messy as the Increase Attribute spell....
I feel that since it's the sammies that tend to increase their attributes
the most, that it's fine by me if they get stuck paying more than mages
because a spell lock can be turned off. At least their cyber/bioware can't
be grounded through. It all has its ups and downs. I would also rule that
Physads can't turn of their increased attributes, either. Thus, they too
would get stuck paying the higher cost....which is also fine by me for the
same reason.
> Lastly, sorry if this has been discussed to death. I got back from
> holidays with 2500 mails in the shadowrn folder... I kinda thought
> for 1/5th of a second and deleted'em.).
Heh.
> --
> Fade
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 18:09:12 -0400
Reply-To: craigjwjr@*********.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Craig J Wilhelm Jr <craigjwjr@*********.NET>
Organization: Afterlife Incorperated
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
MIME-Version: 1.0
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David R. Lowe wrote:
> OK, how bout this? Does glass stop LOS astrally. I know it doesn't
> affect
> non-DM spells if the mage is targeting normally, but would it prevent
> a
> target from being affected if the mage was using astral sight to
> target? We
> have ruled that glass does block astral LOS, but I wonder if there are
> any
> other opininons...
The BBB is (sorta) specific about this. Actually it's downright
confusing at times, but humor me for a moment.
Quote, p. 145 BBB
"Inanimate objects are visible because of reflected light, and
block the passage of magical energy and emotions, two primary
elements of the astral form, or aura. Because such objects block the
flow of the aura, astral beings cannot assence through them. These
objects possess no aura or astral form of thier own, however, and
so astral beings can freely pass through the astral position
corresponding to the object's physical space. In astral space, one
cannotsee or assence through a wall, though it is a simple matter to
right through it. Transparent objects retain that quality, however."
--
Craig J Wilhelm Jr
Reality is nothing but a refuge for those who can't handle role-playing.
http://home.earthlink.net/~craigjwjr/
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 23:40:31 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
In-Reply-To: <33DA05AF.4F67@*********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In message <33DA05AF.4F67@*********.com>, Kristling the Weird
<kristlingweird@*********.COM> writes
>Okay. Sure. Then how come I don't die using modren bug repellents? The
>active ingrident in them these days IS DEET! Maybe we should step back
>from a sec... If it's pure DEET, then yah. If it's a commercial product,
>no.
DEET is a repellent. It makes the insect think "Yuck!" and fly away: it
doesn't kill them. (Hateful memories of Scottish forest midges during an
Army exercise... each of us was the centre of a seething globe of black
specks, all landing on our repellent-soaked skins and then taking off
again, usually but not always without biting... none of the bastard
things seemed to be dying, though)
Your typical really effective insecticide (rather than a pyrethoid like
domestic flyspray) is an organophosphorous derivative: basically, nerve
gas. Dieldrin, for instance, is almost as toxic to humans as it is to
insects.
--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 19:20:16 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
On Sat, 26 Jul 1997 12:55:33 -0700 "David R. Lowe" <dlowe@****.COM>
writes:
<<OK, how bout this? Does glass stop LOS astrally. I know it doesn't
affect non-DM spells if the mage is targeting normally, but would it
prevent a target from being affected if the mage was using astral sight
to target? We have ruled that glass does block astral LOS, but I wonder
if there are any other opininons...>>
Of course there are other opinions! There are _always_ other opinions:)
By current rules, I don't see why it should. If you have to 'synch' auras
with the target (in my mind, this represents a matching of 'astral
frequencies' between the spell and its intended target) and a mirror
provides valid LOS, I see no reason why glass wouldn't also. Glass
remains transparent, after all.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 19:20:16 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
On Sat, 26 Jul 1997 14:46:22 -0700 "David R. Lowe" <dlowe@****.COM>
writes:
<<Ooops. Just reread the BBB. P 145 "transparent objects retain that
quality...">>
It was my understanding that all objects on the astral plane retain all
characteristics of the physical existance except in that all non-living
objects not in their natural, non-processed state are intangible (but not
invisible). Glass remains transparent, mirrors reflect, magnifying lenses
magnify, etc and they behave this way in respect to both physical and
astral information (so you can see someone's aura through a window, in a
mirror, through binoculars, etc). But that's simply an extrapolation of
what's written in the book and isn't really supported or denied by the
rules as written.
<<Still. I think it would be more interesting to judge that since glass
is just a big sheet of inaninimate matter, it act any other similar
object on the astral. Just to mess with the pc's pre-conceptions.>>
Except that the astral plane (and magic in general for that matter), by
its very nature is determined and shaped by preconceptions. If you can
rationalize why a character *believes* that he cannot target through
glass, along mirrors, etc, well then...
Mwahahahaha!! :)
<<I would've asked about grounding through glass, but the answer is
obvious. How else do you get "ground glass"?>>
I'd thwap you for that, but I'm too lazy to dig out my auto-carp, so
consider yourself darn lucky:)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 14:31:57 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
In-Reply-To: <19970724.224141.18319.1.lobo1@****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 22:42 24/07/97 EDT, John E Pederson wrote:
>Okay, here goes (I used rules _as_written_, not necessarily as intended,
>and did not limit myself to the main book:)
>
>Name:
>Race: Human
>Adept: Hermetic Sorcerer
<<<snip>>>
>Magic 1 (3)
> With geasa, Magic Rating is a full 6 (8) :)
<<<snip>>
>Cerebral Booster 1
>Trauma Damper
I just love this bioware for magicians.
<<<snip>>>
>I don't know that the Chromium Mage there is all that munch (powerful,
>but nearly crippled by the low physical attributes), but that's what I
>came up with. I would have sprung for a Panther Cannon:) but I was on a
>budget, and really wanted the foci:):)
And now for the down side. All the following actions/abilities are rated
against a magician's magic rating and are only considered in that light.
I've listed those for which I believe the Chrome Wiz's geasa will not work
or are simply not relevant:
a. the Chrome Wiz's ability to banish spirits is very poor;
b. the Chrome Wiz's ability to command uncontrolled spirits is very poor;
c. ritual magic maximum sustaining time is frag all if the Chrome Wiz is
the team leader;
d. the astrally projecting Chrome Wiz's ability to pass astral barriers is
almost non-existent;
e. an initiated Chrome Wiz's Masking is pretty ineffective versus any other
initiate;
f. the Chrome Wiz's aura reading ability is poor;
g. astral quests are much more dangerous;
h. the Chrome Wiz's risk of foci addiction is serious if he ever uses the
foci without also using his geasa.
... and there are probably more.
So, there are still some solid limitations on the Chrome Wiz under the
proposed new geasa rules.
Chris
_______________________________________________________________
Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 14:47:16 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <199707251542.JAA15522@******>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:42 25/07/97 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:
>Refresh everyone's pools at the beginning of combat. From that point
>on the characters' pools refresh at the *end* of their action
>phases.
<<<snip>>>
Yep. I saw this the first time you posted but somehow I lost it. I've just
replied, privately, to Mark Steedman discussing the points he made in his
last post. As I said to Mark I feel this problem of the initiative loser
refreshing his combat pool to soon is a conundrum. Or - I thought it was
until I just discussed your suggestion with a friend. I like your idea.
A question, though I think you mentioned it in your first post. Do you have
this refreshing take place in all SR combat eg. ranged, DM spells, etc...
and do you have all pools refreshing this way eg. magic, control, hacking,
etc... ?
Chris
_______________________________________________________________
Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 14:31:28 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
In-Reply-To: <970726010645_-1475869339@*******.mail.aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:06 26/07/97 -0400, Steve Kenson wrote:
>>Point of clarification, please: what about targets
>>who are under the effects of invisibility, using
>>stealth, a spirit's concealment power etc? The
>>casting mage COULD see them if he rolls high
>>enough on his perception roll, but what if he
>>doesn't even bother to look? In other words,
>>does the mage have to "see" them, or "notice"
>>them?
>
>In all of those cases I would have the gamemaster make a secret Perception
>Test for the spellcaster against the target in question. If the caster makes
>it, then he can see the target well enough to cast a spell at them (perhaps
>with a TN penalty for the target still having some visual cover). If the
>caster blows the Perception Test, then they can't see the target and the
>target is not a valid one (even for an area spell).
All these concealment circumstances just add target penalties to perception
tests. How about simply adding these penalties to the magician's target
numbers?
Chris
_______________________________________________________________
Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 11:53:07 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Insecticides vs. repellents (was Re: the uac dilemma)
In-Reply-To: <33DA05AF.4F67@*********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Kristling the Weird said on 10:11/26 Jul 97...
> > I hope you killed them shortly afterwards from nerve damage. Spraying
> > bug spray on weapons is one thing - you can spray it so thick it's
> > dripping off the weapon. i wouldn't want to spray the stuff on myself,
> > though - it's a rather nasty nerve toxin.
> Okay. Sure. Then how come I don't die using modren bug repellents? The
> active ingrident in them these days IS DEET! Maybe we should step back
> from a sec... If it's pure DEET, then yah. If it's a commercial product,
> no.
I believe Lady J already said this, but an insect repellent (sp?) isn't
the same as an insecticide. A repellent makes them go away because they
don't like the stuff, while an insecticide kills them. Repellents may be
toxic as well, but they don't have to be; their primary function is making
sure insects stay away from where the stuff is sprayed.
Insecticides, pesticides, and all other -cides are bad for people, it just
depends on the dose you get. Spraying a bit of insecticide in your
room to kill a few mosquitos won't hurt you; spraying the whole can in an
enclosed room and sitting in the cloud for a day could be bad for your
health...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 08:38:48 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John Dukes <dukes@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Insecticides vs. repellents
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I wonder what the price of a can of bug repellant was during the height of
the Chicago infestation. I bet a tube of Off was worth its weight in gold. I
dont have the Bug City book, but just out of curiosity, does it list Chicago
prices for things like that?
John
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 10:09:01 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: [GC] Granite's game at Gen Con
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
>Anyways, one of the tickets is for the S/R Drive in the Country
>tourney. I had been under the impression this was Granite's game,
>however the ticket lists Jill Lucas as GM.
Actually, I am one of 12 Judges for the first round..The number of
judges drops of for each round...But I hope to get the final round
as well..Those as the best of the best...
>I know Granite would be the best to ask on this, but I think he's gone
>for a few days ain't he?
I was and now I'm back.. :)
Actually I am suprised at the name on the ticket as well...I would
have thought it would have been Rich Osterhout...He is the one in
overall charge of the SR Tourney...
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 10:09:03 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: [GC] Battletech Center closed!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
I got a bit of insiders info...The Battle Tech center in Chicago will
be closed starting today..they are moving to a different
facility..and will be OUT OF ORDER!! until sometime after GenCon!!!
DREK!!! I was really looking forward to going again..they have the
new Alpha pods..they let you reroute coolant and power..FRAG!! Oh
well..I just thought I would pass this along...
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 10:09:04 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: [GC] Re: Gen Con, Guest list :) UPDATED 26JULY:1005L
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
>GRANITE, you still mantain this list?
Yup..Or at least I am trying to...
--------------------------------------------------------
Nice people going to GenCon:
FASAMike [If there are enough hours in the day]
GRANITE
Mike Broadwater
Bull
Fro (maybe)
Skye (yes... parents approval pending)
The Bookworm
Gossamer
Mike Paff
Caric
Court Schuett
Adam (another one or Fro?)
Nick Van
Droopy
Czar Eggbert
Paolo & Armanda (my gf)
Loki
NightLife
Onyx
Smilin' Ted
The Digital Mage aka Grant Erswell
Steve K.
--------------------------------------------------------
>Paolo & Armanda (my gf)
So will she be wearing one of those chain mail Bikinis??
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
>Does <sob>
>Does this mean, I'll be all alone??? <sob>
><SOB>
Well.. not completely.. and who is this Sob guy your talking to???
From: Skye Comstock <bilbo@****.NWLINK.COM>
>No Money, No Go. I'd drive my '7 there, but it'd take forever
>and I'd have to steal gas... ;)
Sad to hear it....
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 10:09:02 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: I'm Back..For now..
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Well that was a bit less painful than I thought it was a going to
be..I waded through the email for the last week or so..I really don't
like the Digest version..Too easy to miss stuff..And I finally got a
copy od Target:UCAS..I had to drive all the way to Texas to get
it..But it is mine now... :) Next trip is off the GenCon...
Now I have to try and figure out how to turn off the Digest see ya'll
later...
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 10:09:00 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Argh!!!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
>I hate you all!
But some of us had nothing to do with all of that....
>I'm turning into a fragging WENDIGO and it's ALL YOUR FAULT!
>Argh!!!!!!!!!!
My condolances..But think of the bright side..now you'll be really
strong..huge and furry.....Your diet might change a little..but
you'll have fangs...of course..you'll need a new truck..that old one
will be too small now... :P
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 12:28:37 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
On Sun, 27 Jul 1997 14:31:57 +1000 Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
writes:
<<And now for the down side. All the following actions/abilities are
rated against a magician's magic rating and are only considered in that
light. I've listed those for which I believe the Chrome Wiz's geasa will
not work or are simply not relevant:
a. the Chrome Wiz's ability to banish spirits is very poor;>>
As it should be, since he's not actually a mage.
<<b. the Chrome Wiz's ability to command uncontrolled spirits is very
poor;>>
Again, he's not a mage, I'm sure he would be able to either of those,
anyway.
<<c. ritual magic maximum sustaining time is frag all if the Chrome Wiz
is the team leader;
d. the astrally projecting Chrome Wiz's ability to pass astral barriers
is almost non-existent;>>
He can't astrally project, he has astral perception, but astral
projection. And it's not like he'd be able to spend much time in the
astral even if he could project...
<<e. an initiated Chrome Wiz's Masking is pretty ineffective versus any
other initiate;>>
That's be the price you pay...
<<f. the Chrome Wiz's aura reading ability is poor;>>
Well, other than not having the Psychometry skill, where are you pulling
this one from?
<<g. astral quests are much more dangerous;>>
He can't astrally project.
<<h. the Chrome Wiz's risk of foci addiction is serious if he ever uses
the foci without also using his geasa.>>
Yes and no. He can't actually lose anymore magic, so the worst that could
happen is another geas (note: I would give this kind of character the
Focus geas on general principles:)
<<... and there are probably more.
So, there are still some solid limitations on the Chrome Wiz under the
proposed new geasa rules.>>
Of course there are, but two-thirds of what you suggest don't apply to
this character anyway: he can't astrally project, he can't summon
(normal) spirits, or banish them (IIRC, I don't have the book with me to
check, so I could very easily be wrong there...). And he doesn't have
Conjuring:)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 12:28:37 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Insecticides vs. repellents
On Sun, 27 Jul 1997 08:38:48 -0500 John Dukes <dukes@*******.NET> writes:
<<I wonder what the price of a can of bug repellant was during the height
of the Chicago infestation. I bet a tube of Off was worth its weight in
gold. I dont have the Bug City book, but just out of curiosity, does it
list Chicago prices for things like that?>>
Yes and no. It does have list indicating prices on lots of different
stuff, but neither bug repellant or insecticide are actually listed
(though they could fall under "Compounds") As for repellant: I doubt
that'd be too useful. My guess is that the bugs would just kill you and
leave you to rot instead of using you for the next generation of insect
spirits. . . Besides, I haven't seen a bug repellant that really works
100% and I'd expect the Invae to be a little less worried about it than a
normal bug would be...
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 13:52:18 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Adam J. Lyle" <wolfjack@****.BCL.NET>
Subject: Re: [GC] Re: Gen Con, Guest list :) UPDATED 26JULY:1005L
In-Reply-To: <19970727161235718.AAJ404@********.gj.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sun, 27 Jul 1997, GRANITE wrote:
> >GRANITE, you still mantain this list?
>
> Yup..Or at least I am trying to...
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Nice people going to GenCon:
>
>
<snippage of names>
Don't forget Bob Ooton, aka TopCat, and me, even though I am new to
this list and have posted just one reply. You can find Mike Broadwater,
Bob, and myself, along with various others, at the White Wolf booth
demoing games most of the time. We'll be covering everything from basic
Vampire: the Masquerade to Changeling 2nd Ed, incase any of you die hard
runners ant something different.
Adam
WolfJack
.
o .
Beware the woods at night. ooo o
Beware the Lunar light. . oo ooo
o oo .
- Type-O Negative ooo o
oo wWwWw ooo
wWwwwwwWw oo
wwwwwwwwwww
wwwwwwwwwwwww
wwww www
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 13:39:21 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: [GC] Gen Con, Guest list :) UPDATED 26JULY:1332L
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> > With the current additions Here are who is interested..
> > FASAMike [If there are enough hours in the day]
> > GRANITE
> > Mike Broadwater
> > Bull
> > Fro (maybe)
> > The Bookworm
> > Gossamer
> > Mike Paff
> > Caric
> > Court Schuett
> > Adam
> > Nick Van
> > Droopy
> > Czar Eggbert
> > Paolo & lady friend..
> >Loki
> >NightLife
> >Onyx
> >Smilin' Ted
> The Digital Mage aka Grant Erswell
> Steve K.
Bob Ooton aka TopCat,
Adam aka WolfJack
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 21:17:29 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Chargen
On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 05:08:02 -0500 John Dukes <dukes@*******.NET> writes:
[snip]
>Is it balanced if RunnerX is immune to narcoject toxin in exchange for a
>mild phobia of hearing a trains whistle? I guess that +1TN modifier
while
>hearing a train whistly is worth complete immunity to narcoject? At any
rate
>please show me I'm wrong. I would rather like to read the cleverly
hidden
>section on balancing magical talents.
Well that's just Edges/Flaws in general.... stuff like that happens in
just about ANY system that uses them. Which just so happens to be one of
the major reasons I don't like to use them... I as a GM don't like having
to check the ones the players may pile on, and don't want to become a
tyrant by saying which one's can and can't be used. It becomes a pain
when we use the same characters for mulitple GM's and we each have
different views about them. IMHO, the less of them the better.
~Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 21:59:58 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Adam J. Lyle" <wolfjack@****.BCL.NET>
Subject: Re: [GC] Gen Con, Guest list :) UPDATED 26JULY:1332L
Comments: To: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
In-Reply-To: <19970727194254171.AAA351@********.gj.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Thanks, I feel all special now. ;)
Adam Lyle (just incase there are two Adams here)
WolfJack
.
o .
Beware the woods at night. ooo o
Beware the Lunar light. . oo ooo
o oo .
- Type-O Negative ooo o
oo wWwWw ooo
wWwwwwwWw oo
wwwwwwwwwww
wwwwwwwwwwwww
wwww www
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 20:33:44 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Skye Comstock <bilbo@****.NWLINK.COM>
Subject: Re: [GC] Gen Con, Guest list :) UPDATED 26JULY:1332L
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9707272109.A11253-0100000@****.bcl.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Thanks, I feel all special now. ;)
>
>Adam Lyle (just incase there are two Adams here)
>WolfJack
There are a lot of Adams here... The list co-admin (who I fear may
haome kind of breakdown due to all of the Adams...), Adam Wise, and
one or two others with Adam as a first or last name... Adam and a
J somewhere because pretty damned popular. ;)
-Skye
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 23:47:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ian White <dernhelm@*****.COM.AU>
Subject: help
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Help me please????????????
I've newly joined the list and changed to the digest version, but have
decided that I prefer individual postings.
My problem is I don't know how to change back.
could someone please help me???
Dernhelm
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 00:14:10 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: [SR3] Astral Perception and Adepts
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Sorry I've been busy elsewhere but here I am with another of those
fun topics to argue about. Passing over Edges and Flaws (being that they
are optional) and the PhysAd power, can any adept astrally perceive. What
has gone before in the rules suggests this on some level for the
spellcasting wizzies but not how much can perceive. Could this get better
fleshed out by what that means. And a few spells seem to compensate for
no astral perception but not quite fully. I think it would be useful to
do so.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 21:14:01 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: help
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---Ian White wrote:
>
> Help me please????????????
> I've newly joined the list and changed to the digest version, but
have
> decided that I prefer individual postings.
> My problem is I don't know how to change back.
> could someone please help me???
Adam has copies of the FAQ are at:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/6112/lists.html
Quoting part 1 of the FAQ:
SET listname DIGEST:
When this option is set, instead of all of the
postings being delivered separately, they will be
delivered in one mailing at the close of the day (in
Listserv's timezone). This is helpful if the number
of mailings become a burden.
SET listname MAIL (default):
This option is invoked to restore active status
after sending a NOMAIL request, and is also used to
change from DIGEST back to getting all postings
separately.
Hope that helps, and I'd advise grabbing and saving all parts of the
FAQ (not to mention Adam sent copies of them out just a few days ago).
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 00:27:28 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ian White <dernhelm@*****.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: help
In-Reply-To: <tcppop3.382647@***.hydra.com.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Thank you for the fast respones to my need for help, it is greatly
appreciated. :)
once again thank you.
Dernhelm
Caught and trapped like a fox in the forest
Or a murderer in prison.
Yet what crime had I committed?
To be human in this world?
-excerpt from "Your favourite Drama"
by E. A. Bockman
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 00:50:48 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Astral Perception and Adepts
On Mon, 28 Jul 1997 00:14:10 -0400 MC23 <mc23@**********.COM> writes:
<<Sorry I've been busy elsewhere but here I am with another of those fun
topics to argue about.>>
Oh, boy! Something to bring up the list traffic (since it's been a slow
weekend:)
<<Passing over Edges and Flaws (being that they are optional) and the
PhysAd power, can any adept astrally perceive.>>
Only Astral Adepts, Elementalists, Shamanic Adepts (there's _got_ to be a
better name for them), and Physads (who don't necessarily) have full
access to astral perception.
<<What has gone before in the rules suggests this on some level for the
spellcasting wizzies but not how much can perceive.>>
It is implied that Sorcerors have a *limited* form of astral perception,
which may, in fact, be no more than the limited astral sense that *all*
magically active characters probably possess (as implied by the story
"All Dressed Up and No Place to Go", Awakenings, p25). In any case, any
astral perception that a sorceror might possess is only enough to synch
auras (might have a side-effect of providing heightened emotional
awareness, both of a given subject and of the surrounding area), and has
little or no use outside of that. Whether any other adept has such an
ability has yet to be seen:)
<<Could this get better fleshed out by what that means. And a few spells
seem to compensate for no astral perception but not quite fully. I think
it would be useful to do so.>>
To which spells are you referring?
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 01:35:20 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Gel rounds and knockdown rules
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Could someone please fill me in on the appropriate modifiers for
knockdown/back power levels for gel rounds? The BBB makes reference to a
nonexistant section within itself that is supposed to give the details on
this. :)
Thanks!
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 01:52:14 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ian White <dernhelm@*****.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Gel rounds and knockdown rules
In-Reply-To: <tcppop3.382675@***.hydra.com.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 15:39 27/07/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Could someone please fill me in on the appropriate modifiers for
>knockdown/back power levels for gel rounds? The BBB makes reference to a
>nonexistant section within itself that is supposed to give the details on
>this. :)
>
>Thanks!
>
>Justin :)
See page 91 of the Shadowrun rule book, down on the bottom right there is a
paragraph titled 'stopping and Nockdown".
in it you'll find the rules for gel rounds are: "gel rounds have a base
target number equal to their power"
dernhelm
Caught and trapped like a fox in the forest
Or a murderer in prison.
Yet what crime had I committed?
To be human in this world?
-excerpt from "Your favourite Drama"
by E. A. Bockman
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:26:10 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bruce <gyro@********.CO.ZA>
Subject: Physical Mages (was Re: Physad Enhanced Centering)
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 05:26 PM 24-07-97 -0400, you (J. Keith) wrote:
>>
>> Except that a physad can't enchant, and can't use most magical skills
>> except for mundane effects (which is to say, in the same way(s) a mundane
>> could use them).
>>
>>
>True, but a Physical Mage can, and these rules apply to them as well. Also,
>a Physical Adept -CAN- enchant, even a mundane can make fetishes. As such,
>the skills could go in that direction as well.
>-Keith
I'd like someone to check me here please.
The phenomenon of physical magicians is supposed to be unproven and a little
unbelieved according to the source material, right? I dont have the paper
work so I 'll leave the page quotes to the gurus. Just how many GM's are
allowing their players to play this IMHO marginal and unnesassary (sp?
oooooh!) archetype?
It smacks of "best of both worlding"
Thanks
BRUCE
Arcanum Majoris - Big Magic! :)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:08:03 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <dhinkley@****host.efn.org>
From: David Hinkley <dhinkley@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: Playing Multiple Charactrs (was Re: question)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970721044617.2ec78378@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On 21 Jul 97 at 4:44, Bull wrote:
> At 03:26 AM 7/20/97 -0600, Caun Haskins wrote these timeless words:
>
> >Here's a question I want to through out, Do you PCs play multiple
> >characters? or just one? I was in a small group once and each person
> >played at leas 2 sometimes up to 6 players, I think It got confusing
> >real quick. What do you guys think and or do?
> >
> Well... I've never done it with Shadowrun, though I would let (if we were
> ever short of players) my guys play up to 2 characters, max... Of course,
> I _LIKE_ a small group (my ideal group is 4, one from each major group).
>
> Of course, I never really have a shortage of players. I have too many,
> ocaasionally... Of course, if we're talking GOOD players... that's
> another subject. I have maybe 2 or 3...;]
The group I currently game with is rather small (2-3 plus GM), to
have enough PCs to make some runs possible we each play two
characters, basicly a primary and a secondary. If the gaming group is
larger at any particular session (new player, visting friends from
far away etc.) only the primary is run. Addtionally the secondary
characters are used in support type roles (get away car driver,
research decker, look out) and is never teamed with the same players
primary. It is not a great solution (there is the ever present "group
mind" problem) but it works.
David Hinkley
dhinkley@***.org
====================================================
Those who are too intelligent to engage in politics
are punished by being governed by those who are not
--Plato
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 12:34:50 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Gel rounds and knockdown rules
In-Reply-To: <199707280537.BAA15017@****.provide.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Justin Pinnow said on 1:35/28 Jul 97...
> Could someone please fill me in on the appropriate modifiers for
> knockdown/back power levels for gel rounds? The BBB makes reference to a
> nonexistant section within itself that is supposed to give the details on
> this. :)
That reference should read "earlier in this section," or better "on page
91." Normal rounds use half their Power as the TN for the knockdown test,
but to resist knockdown from gel rounds the full Power Level is used.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
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Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 12:34:49 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: [GC] Gen Con, Guest list :) UPDATED 26JULY:1332L
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9707272109.A11253-0100000@****.bcl.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Adam J. Lyle said on 21:59/27 Jul 97...
> Adam Lyle (just incase there are two Adams here)
There are, and the J in your name makes it especially confusing, seeing
how Adam J (who should change his name back to Fro, it would make it
easier for all involved :) is Assistant Fearless Leader...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 08:57:52 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Astral Perception and Adepts
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Mon, 28 Jul 1997 00:14:10 -0400"
<199707280414.AAA04196@*********.mindspring.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
You wrote:
> Sorry I've been busy elsewhere but here I am with another of those
> fun topics to argue about. Passing over Edges and Flaws (being that they
> are optional) and the PhysAd power, can any adept astrally perceive. What
> has gone before in the rules suggests this on some level for the
> spellcasting wizzies but not how much can perceive. Could this get better
> fleshed out by what that means. And a few spells seem to compensate for
> no astral perception but not quite fully. I think it would be useful to
> do so.
I think Elemental Adepts and Shamanic Adepts are the only ones with full astral
perception/projection abilities (well, and the Astral Adept, of course).
Generally adepts are banned from both assensing and projecting.
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:17:07 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jackson, Hank" <Hank.Jackson@*********.COM>
Subject: Rhenium polymers
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----
=_NextPart_001_01BC9B37.067DB720"
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
------ =_NextPart_001_01BC9B37.067DB720
Content-Type: text/plain
Hello all,
I thought of an unusual use for Rhenium polymers. If they were coated
on cybereyes, they would eliminate the need for corneal filters. Some
of the NPC's described in Prime Runners have their cybereyes listed as a
distingiushing feature. Colorchanging cybereyes would help those for
whom disguise to a common occurance. There are a few problems with
coated cybereyes:
1. Can the polymers withstand the bodily fluids in and around the eye
without degradation of the polymer fibers? Most polymers are fairly
stable in my experience, though I do not know the properties of these
particular polmers.
2. Will the low voltage current required to change the color of the
fibers interfere with the functioning of the cybereye? This is one
that I have no idea about.
3. Are the polymers dangerous to the body? Will the chemical change
initiated by the voltage harm the eye cavity or the body as a whole? If
the polymers were inert, it would be no different than an uncoated
cybereye.
This may require a ruling from the GM for individual games, which may
not have much relation to reality (reality, what's that?).
Can anyone give me more info about this very useful piece of equipment?
Galen
------ =_NextPart_001_01BC9B37.067DB720
Content-Type: text/html
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; =
charset=us-ascii">
<META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version =
5.0.1457.3">
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Hello all,</FONT>
<BR>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">I thought of an unusual use
for =
Rhenium polymers. If they were coated on cybereyes, they would =
eliminate the need for corneal filters. Some of the NPC's =
described in Prime Runners have their cybereyes listed as a =
distingiushing feature. Colorchanging cybereyes would help those =
for whom disguise to a common occurance. There are a few =
problems with coated cybereyes:</FONT></P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">1. Can the polymers withstand
the =
bodily fluids in and around the eye without degradation of the polymer =
fibers? Most polymers are fairly stable in my experience, though =
I do not know the properties of these particular polmers.</FONT></P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">2. Will the low voltage
current =
required to change the color of the fibers interfere with the =
functioning of the cybereye? This is one that I have no =
idea about.</FONT></P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">3. Are the polymers dangerous
to the =
body? Will the chemical change initiated by the voltage harm the =
eye cavity or the body as a whole? If the polymers were inert, it =
would be no different than an uncoated cybereye.</FONT></P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">This may require a ruling
from the GM =
for individual games, which may not have much relation to reality =
(reality, what's that?).</FONT></P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Can anyone give me more info
about =
this very useful piece of equipment?</FONT>
<BR>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Galen</FONT>
</P>
</BODY>
</HTML>
------ =_NextPart_001_01BC9B37.067DB720--
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:27:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Astral Perception and Adepts
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Canthros once dared to write,
>Oh, boy! Something to bring up the list traffic (since it's been a slow
>weekend:)
Everybody's got to have a talent.
>Only Astral Adepts, Elementalists, Shamanic Adepts (there's _got_ to be a
>better name for them), and Physads (who don't necessarily) have full
>access to astral perception.
That's what I get for posting just before passing out. What I was
roundaboutly trying to get to was sorcerer adepts (and anything else that
should be considered).
>It is implied that Sorcerers have a *limited* form of astral perception,
>which may, in fact, be no more than the limited astral sense that *all*
>magically active characters probably possess (as implied by the story
>"All Dressed Up and No Place to Go", Awakenings, p25). In any case, any
>astral perception that a sorcerer might possess is only enough to synch
>auras (might have a side-effect of providing heightened emotional
>awareness, both of a given subject and of the surrounding area), and has
>little or no use outside of that. Whether any other adept has such an
>ability has yet to be seen:)
That is exactly what I was trying to hit upon. It is implied but not
defined so to speak.
><<Could this get better fleshed out by what that means. And a few spells
>seem to compensate for no astral perception but not quite fully. I think
>it would be useful to do so.>>
>
>
>To which spells are you referring?
Analyze Magic (Grimoire)
Detect Magic (Grimoire)
Astral Sense (Awakenings)
My burnt out sorcerer adept makes use of these to compensate for not
having Astral Perception. They don't do everything but they give some
astral perception to him.
Earthdawn covers some of the differences in the levels of astral
perception (Magic: a Manual of Mystic Secrets) and Shadowrun could use a
little of the same treatment for the Sorcerer Adepts and Physical
Magicians.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 08:48:22 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gossamer <kajohnson@*******.TEC.WI.US>
Subject: Re: Rhenium polymers
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: Jackson, Hank <Hank.Jackson@*********.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Rhenium polymers
> Date: Monday, July 28, 1997 8:17 AM
>
I'm absolutely sure that there was probably more to this message, and I'd like
to respond point by point:
Point 1)
Point 2)
Point 3)
and finally...
Point 4)
Cheers
Gossamer
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:52:08 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Rhenium polymers
I disagree on point 3....
-Bandit
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:08:00 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Physical Mages (was Re: Physad Enhanced Centering)
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:26:10 +0200"
<1.5.4.32.19970728072610.0068ccac@********.co.za>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
You wrote:
> I'd like someone to check me here please.
> The phenomenon of physical magicians is supposed to be unproven and a little
> unbelieved according to the source material, right? I dont have the paper
> work so I 'll leave the page quotes to the gurus. Just how many GM's are
> allowing their players to play this IMHO marginal and unnecessary archetype?
Was the physad 'necessary' in the first place? Not in my opinion. It was a
way to be a magical samurai when first introduced. I think the physical
magician could be a very interesting character type, and isn't as subject to
munching as people may think.
> It smacks of "best of both worlding"
Yeah, but they're nowhere as good as either, they're middleground. And it
makes perfect sense to me that one could pursue both spellcasting/conjuring and
physadept powers in study. It's no different than the burned-out mages that
end up being basically samurai/mages.
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 08:30:51 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <199707270503.XAA26358@******> from "Chris Maxfield" at Jul
27,
97 02:47:16 pm
Content-Type: text
Chris Maxfield wrote:
|
| At 09:42 25/07/97 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:
| >Refresh everyone's pools at the beginning of combat. From that point
| >on the characters' pools refresh at the *end* of their action
| >phases.
| <<<snip>>>
|
| Yep. I saw this the first time you posted but somehow I lost it. I've just
| replied, privately, to Mark Steedman discussing the points he made in his
| last post. As I said to Mark I feel this problem of the initiative loser
| refreshing his combat pool to soon is a conundrum. Or - I thought it was
| until I just discussed your suggestion with a friend. I like your idea.
Well, that's one :)
| A question, though I think you mentioned it in your first post. Do you have
| this refreshing take place in all SR combat eg. ranged, DM spells, etc...
| and do you have all pools refreshing this way eg. magic, control, hacking,
| etc... ?
I would suggest applying it to all pools.
BTW, this is an idea in the playtest stage. Send the PCs to a
paintball competition and try it out under non-lethal conditions
before you use it for real.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:45:47 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Physad Enhanced Centering)
On Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:26:10 +0200 Bruce <gyro@********.CO.ZA> writes:
>I'd like someone to check me here please.
<shrug> Okay. Check! :)
<<The phenomenon of physical magicians is supposed to be unproven and a
little unbelieved according to the source material, right?>>
True enough.
<<I dont have the paper work so I 'll leave the page quotes to the gurus.
Just how many GM's are allowing their players to play this IMHO marginal
and unnesassary (sp? oooooh!) archetype?>>
Well, I certainly do, but you should see the other stuff I'll let my
players have, if they ask for it:) The honest truth is that a Phys. Mage
*isn't* that powerful. He's versatile, he's rare, but he's not a combat
monster, not automatically. The Physical Mage is really pretty well
balanced. "Jack of all trades, Master of none", you know.
>It smacks of "best of both worlding"
Maybe so, but they remain pretty well balanced and can be used to create
some really interesting characters (one I toyed with was a rocker),
because you can do stuff with them that's not possible with any other
type of character. Conversely, they'll never be able to astrally project,
they'll never be able to go on an astral quest (on their own), etc, etc.
> Arcanum Majoris - Big Magic! :)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:45:47 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Rhenium polymers
On Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:17:07 -0400 "Jackson, Hank"
<Hank.Jackson@*********.COM> writes:
>This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not
>understand
>this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
Galen, you're sending out MIME. Please fix your mailer so it isn't. It'll
save you having to listen to Spike scream and yell:) Besides, I don't
think everyone's mailer is MIME-compatible (or MIME-ignorant, like mine:)
>Hello all,
>
>I thought of an unusual use for Rhenium polymers. If they were coated
>on cybereyes, they would eliminate the need for corneal filters. Some
>of the NPC's described in Prime Runners have their cybereyes listed as
>a
>distingiushing feature. Colorchanging cybereyes would help those for
>whom disguise to a common occurance. There are a few problems with
>coated cybereyes:
An interesting idea (btw, they're Ruthenium fibers, not Rhenium:)
>1. Can the polymers withstand the bodily fluids in and around the eye
>without degradation of the polymer fibers? Most polymers are fairly
>stable in my experience, though I do not know the properties of these
>particular polmers.
Would it matter? You simply put them in the 'iris' in the cybereyes and
they never come in contact with a person's bodily fluids (or when they do
you'll be needing new cybereyes, anyway)
>2. Will the low voltage current required to change the color of the
>fibers interfere with the functioning of the cybereye? This is one
>that I have no idea about.
It could, but I don't think it would. Not unless (small) magnetic fields
and low voltage current on/in a person's body (ala the battery pack for
that cyberradio) would already interfere with their operation.
>3. Are the polymers dangerous to the body? Will the chemical change
>initiated by the voltage harm the eye cavity or the body as a whole?
>If
>the polymers were inert, it would be no different than an uncoated
>cybereye.
As I said, it would be easier to enclose the polymers witin the cybereye,
where they'd be protected from the elements and the body.
>This may require a ruling from the GM for individual games, which may
>not have much relation to reality (reality, what's that?).
>
>Can anyone give me more info about this very useful piece of
>equipment?
I hope I helped, at least a little bit. Do we have a chemist on the list,
somewhere?
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:51:28 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Robert G. Brook" <rgb1@**.MSSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Area Spells
In-Reply-To: <s3d87de1.024@********.dragonsys.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Fri, 25 Jul 1997, Mike Elkins wrote:
> Steve Kenson wrote:
> >2) A valid target is one which the caster: a) can
> >see or assense, unaided by technology and,
>
> Point of clarification, please: what about targets
> who are under the effects of invisibility, using
> stealth, a spirit's concealment power etc? The
> casting mage COULD see them if he rolls high
> enough on his perception roll, but what if he
> doesn't even bother to look? In other words,
> does the mage have to "see" them, or "notice"
> them?
>
> Double-Domed Mike
>
I believe Steve was intending to require the mage to percieve the target.
This would imply that the mage would have to "notice" the target.
Furthermore, Steve stated that the mage had to share a state (physical or
astral) with the target. This would only allow a mage using normal sight
to target any physical targets he percieves. Similarly, an astrally
projecting mage would only be able to target any astral targets he
percieves. Finally, an astrally perceiving mage would be able to target
both physical and astral targets but would be subject to a +2 TN
(associated with the attempt to make a physical action while astrally
perceiving) when targeting physical targets.
NOTE: The above is my understanding of Steve's ideas. If this
interpretation is in any way incorrect, please correct me, Steve.
Thanks.
-Glenn Brook
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:54:55 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
David Lowe wrote:
>Ooops. Just reread the BBB. P 145
> "transparent objects retain that quality..."
Yes, thats in the rules. However, having glass be
opaque in the astral makes things so much more
consistent that I use it as a house rule. I suggest
(without much hope) that Steve considers it for
SR3 as well. After all, what wavelength of light
does astral space use to determine if something
is transparent? Do you allow astral
microscopes? Things just get silly.
Double-Domed Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:58:01 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells -Reply
Fade wrote:
>I seem to remember reading that since the
>basic nature of glass is transparency (it's its
>intention, mood, whatever) it is transparent in
>astral space too.
Yes, that's the rules. However, ordinary glass is
opaque to infrared, but quartz glass is
transparent. To X-Rays, wood is transparent.
To Neutrinos, the earth is transparent (Ok, that
last one is unfair, neutrinos aren't photons).
IMHO, machine produced glass doesn't have any
intentions at all.
Double-Domed Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:09:02 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
Replying to Steve Kenson's clarifications:
This brings up an interesting question: if I cast
invisibility, and only get one success, am I
invisible, or just a little blury at the edges? What
TN modifier is the boundary between visible but
hard to target and requires a perception test? If
a character is not spending actions perceiving,
he doesn't make perception tests, (including the
GM makeing hidden, subconscious ones on his
behalf), which makes the issue a bit tricky, I'd
say.
Double-Domed Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:19:56 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
>Dieldrin, for instance, is almost as toxic to
>humans as it is to insects.
There are insecticides that are completely
non-toxic to mammals, but they do that by being
specific to things like preventing the pupae stage
of developement..., not fast acting, and wont
harm an adult bug. Not the most useful stuff for
a bug hunt, but spraying it around the cocoon
room would force them to move out and build a
new hive (IMHO).
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 00:50:41 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
In-Reply-To: <19970727.122712.18311.0.lobo1@****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 12:28 27/07/97 EDT, John E Pederson wrote:
<<a. the Chrome Wiz's ability to banish spirits is very poor;>>
>As it should be, since he's not actually a mage.
Oops. Just reread the fragment I still have of the original Chromium Mage
post. Somehow, I completely missed the fact that he is a Sorcerous Adept.
><<b. the Chrome Wiz's ability to command uncontrolled spirits is very
>poor;>>
>Again, he's not a mage, I'm sure he would be able to either of those,
>anyway.
<Blush>. What I was referring to here was the Control contest where the
spirit is opposing by rolling its force versus the magician's Magic Rating.
Could get nasty for low Magic Ratings. But, not an issue for Sorcerous Adepts.
><<c. ritual magic maximum sustaining time is frag all if the Chrome Wiz
>is the team leader;
>d. the astrally projecting Chrome Wiz's ability to pass astral barriers
>is almost non-existent;>>
>He can't astrally project, he has astral perception, but astral
>projection. And it's not like he'd be able to spend much time in the
>astral even if he could project...
<Double blush>. Does he have astral perception? (Wishing he still had the
original post.)
><<e. an initiated Chrome Wiz's Masking is pretty ineffective versus any
>other initiate;>>
>That's be the price you pay...
Thank god. That one got through.
><<f. the Chrome Wiz's aura reading ability is poor;>>
>Well, other than not having the Psychometry skill, where are you pulling
>this one from?
Well, this doesn't necessarily apply to Sorcerous Adepts (unless they have
astral perception). I also should have used the word 'reduced' rather than
'poor'. I'm referring to the Aura Reading section on page 90 in the
Grimiore. There it describes how a magician may make multiple attempts to
read an aura but the target number increases by +2 each time. He may not
make anymore attempts once the target number exceeds his Magic Rating. This
will, almost certainly, occur immediately after the Chrome Wiz's first
attempt. Also, an Initiated Spell Wiz will have a tough time penetrating
the Masking of other initiates. Once again, this only applies to Chromium
Mages who have (somehow) gained perception <blush>.
><<g. astral quests are much more dangerous;>>
>He can't astrally project.
Certainly not through his own power. But there are ways, such as the Free
Spirit's gateway power, to bring any character into an astral quest. If he
ends up in the place of magic he may be in serious trouble.
><<h. the Chrome Wiz's risk of foci addiction is serious if he ever uses
>the foci without also using his geasa.>>
>Yes and no. He can't actually lose anymore magic, so the worst that could
>happen is another geas (note: I would give this kind of character the
>Focus geas on general principles:)
Absolutely agree.
>Of course there are, but two-thirds of what you suggest don't apply to
>this character anyway: he can't astrally project, he can't summon
>(normal) spirits, or banish them (IIRC, I don't have the book with me to
>check, so I could very easily be wrong there...). And he doesn't have
>Conjuring:)
<blush> <double blush> Quietly tucks the old Magic Ratings list away. OK.
The disadvantages suffered by the Chrome Wiz for his low Magic Rating are
much reduced compared to a full magician. But what is left leaves
interestin' hooks for a GM to play with. ;-)
Chris
_______________________________________________________________
Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:05:45 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Area Spells
Here's another "thought experiment":
A magician casts a physical area-of-effect spell
at a point in the middle of a wheat field. Does it
only effect the wheat stalks towards the front that
he can see well, does it effect a nice neat circle
in the crop, or does it effect a few dozen or so
stalks that happen to be the ones his mind
"noticed"? Substitute a crowd in a passing
subway car if you think a field of wheat is too
boring...
Double-Domed Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:37:45 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells -Reply
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:58:01 -0500"
<s3dc7b06.087@********.dragonsys.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
You wrote:
> Fade wrote:
> >I seem to remember reading that since the
> >basic nature of glass is transparency (it's its
> >intention, mood, whatever) it is transparent in
> >astral space too.
> Yes, that's the rules. However, ordinary glass is
> opaque to infrared, but quartz glass is
> transparent. To X-Rays, wood is transparent.
> To Neutrinos, the earth is transparent (Ok, that
> last one is unfair, neutrinos aren't photons).
> IMHO, machine produced glass doesn't have any
> intentions at all.
By this argument, why isn't air opaque, then? It's there, why shouldn't it
intervene, if glass does? It's so much simpler for things to work as they do
on the physical, rather than ruling case-by-case whether they are transparent
or not. Would a pool of water be transparent or opaque, for instance?
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:39:26 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
<<Oops. Just reread the fragment I still have of the original Chromium
Mage post. Somehow, I completely missed the fact that he is a Sorcerous
Adept.>>
Don't sweat it.
<<<Double blush>. Does he have astral perception? (Wishing he still had
the original post.)>>
Yeah, he has Astral Perception via the Astral Sight Edge.
<<Well, this doesn't necessarily apply to Sorcerous Adepts (unless they
have astral perception). I also should have used the word 'reduced'
rather than 'poor'. I'm referring to the Aura Reading section on page 90
in the Grimiore. There it describes how a magician may make multiple
attempts to read an aura but the target number increases by +2 each time.
He may not make anymore attempts once the target number exceeds his Magic
Rating. This will, almost certainly, occur immediately after the Chrome
Wiz's first attempt. Also, an Initiated Spell Wiz will have a tough time
penetrating the Masking of other initiates. Once again, this only applies
to Chromium Mages who have (somehow) gained perception <blush>.>>
I don't know, unless the character intentionally does not use the geasa
when attempting this (or they do not apply or he's physically unable to
fulfill them), I'd let them apply to his magic rating (assuming we're in
a non-combat type of situation and he's not actually tossing spells).
><<g. astral quests are much more dangerous;>>
>He can't astrally project.
<<Certainly not through his own power. But there are ways, such as the
Free Spirit's gateway power, to bring any character into an astral quest.
If he ends up in the place of magic he may be in serious trouble.>>
Again, that's the price you pay.
<<The disadvantages suffered by the Chrome Wiz for his low Magic Rating
are
much reduced compared to a full magician. But what is left leaves
interestin' hooks for a GM to play with. ;-)>>
That would be the idea:)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:47:16 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Area Spells
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:05:45 -0500"
<s3dc7d57.071@********.dragonsys.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
You wrote:
> Here's another "thought experiment":
> A magician casts a physical area-of-effect spell
> at a point in the middle of a wheat field. Does it
> only effect the wheat stalks towards the front that
> he can see well, does it effect a nice neat circle
> in the crop, or does it effect a few dozen or so
> stalks that happen to be the ones his mind
> "noticed"? Substitute a crowd in a passing
> subway car if you think a field of wheat is too
> boring...
Well, in a wheat field, you stand tall enough to see down over the stalks
further back, and would hit all but a few odd ones. The crowd of people, well,
you can't see them, a Combat spell can't hit them. Use a DM, if you want to
hit them around the 'cover' of the poor slags in front of them.
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 12:15:16 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Rhenium polymers
On Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:52:08 -0400 "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
writes:
>I disagree on point 3....
Yes, but his arguments for point 4 more than make up for the
discrepancies in logic.
(Hey Hank.... DON'T send anything other than PLAIN TEXT to the list...
'k?
If you don't know why, read the FAQ.)
~Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:40:15 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells -Reply
In-Reply-To: <199707281541.JAA01485@******> from "Wendy Wanders,
Subject 117" at Jul 28, 97 11:37:45 am
Content-Type: text
Wendy Wanders, Subject 117 wrote:
|
| By this argument, why isn't air opaque, then? It's there, why shouldn't it
| intervene, if glass does? It's so much simpler for things to work as they do
| on the physical, rather than ruling case-by-case whether they are transparent
| or not. Would a pool of water be transparent or opaque, for instance?
Actually, I like the idea of astral space being "foggy", with water
being a "pea soup fog" (depending on how pure the water is, distilled
water might be as clear as air). It creates a better reason for
using the range table in GII. It would give astral space a nice
eerie feel ("You see something coming at you in the distance. It
could be another mage out for a walk, it could be that elemental
that's been chasing you. What do you do?" <EGMG>)
| losthalo
So, which is it? Losthalo or Wendy? :)
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:45:14 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Area Spells
In-Reply-To: <199707281507.JAA27393@******> from "Mike Elkins" at Jul 28,
97 11:05:45 am
Content-Type: text
Mike Elkins wrote:
|
| Here's another "thought experiment":
|
| A magician casts a physical area-of-effect spell
| at a point in the middle of a wheat field. Does it
| only effect the wheat stalks towards the front that
| he can see well, does it effect a nice neat circle
| in the crop, or does it effect a few dozen or so
| stalks that happen to be the ones his mind
| "noticed"? Substitute a crowd in a passing
| subway car if you think a field of wheat is too
| boring...
Thanks Mike :p :)
I'm gonna say that the wheat that the magician can't see isn't
affected by the combat spell (ditto for the people in the crowd).
This is a rule that I've had to read a lot, cuz one of the players in
my game keeps trying to use Fireball to affect targets around corners
(We're playing SR, not AD$D! <sigh>). It doesn't matter what's
blocking your sight.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:56:55 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: david lowe <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells -Reply
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:37 AM 7/28/97, Wendy Wanders, Subject 117 wrote:
>By this argument, why isn't air opaque, then? It's there, why shouldn't it
>intervene, if glass does? It's so much simpler for things to work as they do
>on the physical, rather than ruling case-by-case whether they are transparent
>or not. Would a pool of water be transparent or opaque, for instance?
>
>losthalo
I would say that distilled water, or reasonably polluted water would be
transparent, but that most other bodies of water would not only be opaque,
but would block astral movement. Most bodies of water are chock full of
life. Hmmm, FAB without all that hassle anyone?
D.
David R. Lowe (dlowe@****.com)
Photography/Graphic Design
"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby."
-Daffy Duck
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 12:57:05 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells -Reply
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:56:55 -0800"
<v01540b00b0028d456ec9@[140.174.162.168]>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
You wrote:
> At 11:37 AM 7/28/97, Wendy Wanders, Subject 117 wrote:
> I would say that distilled water, or reasonably polluted water would be
> transparent, but that most other bodies of water would not only be opaque,
> but would block astral movement. Most bodies of water are chock full of
> life. Hmmm, FAB without all that hassle anyone?
The *air* is full of life, too.
Losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:59:29 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: [GC] Gen Con, Guest list :) UPDATED 27JULY:1100L
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> >> > With the current additions Here are who is interested..
> >> > FASAMike [If there are enough hours in the day]
> >> > GRANITE
> >> > Mike Broadwater
> >> > Bull
> >> > Fro (maybe)
> >> > The Bookworm
> >> > Gossamer
> >> > Mike Paff
> >> > Caric
> >> > Court Schuett
> >> > Adam
> >> > Nick Van
> >> > Droopy
> >> > Czar Eggbert
>> > > Paolo & Armanda (my gf)
> >> >Loki
> >> >NightLife
> >> >Onyx
> >> >Smilin' Ted
> >> The Digital Mage aka Grant Erswell
> >> Steve K.
> >Bob Ooton aka TopCat,
> >Adam Lyle aka WolfJack
> The Kumquat aka Josh Brown
> Uhhh... Granite??? I said I'd be there.... after all, I haven't missed
> one in 7 years... Why start now?
I must have missed ya... Your part of this list now :)
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:18:30 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells -Reply
>By this argument, why isn't air opaque, then?
It's there, why shouldn't it
>intervene, if glass does?
I use the house rule that solids are opaque,
gases are transparent, and liquids are usually
opaque. Mist looks like mist, once you are
underwater you can see a little, but entering
water (or fire, or earth) gives the projector a
wierd feeling and cuts visibility dramatically.
Double-Domed Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 14:28:53 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lorden <westln@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gel rounds and knockdown rules
In-Reply-To: Gurth <gurth@******.NL> "Re: Gel rounds and knockdown rules"
(Jul
28, 12:34pm)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Jul 28, 12:34pm, Gurth wrote:
> Subject: Re: Gel rounds and knockdown rules
> Justin Pinnow said on 1:35/28 Jul 97...
>
> > Could someone please fill me in on the appropriate modifiers for
> > knockdown/back power levels for gel rounds? The BBB makes reference to a
> > nonexistant section within itself that is supposed to give the details on
> > this. :)
>
> That reference should read "earlier in this section," or better "on
page
> 91." Normal rounds use half their Power as the TN for the knockdown test,
> but to resist knockdown from gel rounds the full Power Level is used.
>
>-- End of excerpt from Gurth
While gel rounds do not suffer from power divided by two that
normal rounds do, they do have a -2 to their base power.So a
gel round has a "full power level" of 2 less than a normal round.
Stun rounds don't suffer from that. Besides shotguns, I can't
remember what else will fire stun rounds.
--
Nigel westln@***.edu
AKA C. Yossarrian, UPAC Projectionist
AKA Lorden
Speaking for myself, and no one else.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:38:06 +0000
Reply-To: hardware@*******.ab.ca
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <hardware@*******.datanet.ab.ca>
From: Shane Courtrille <hardware@*******.DATANET.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Toxin Rules
In-Reply-To: <199707230047.SAA04316@******>
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> equal to his Body x10. If someone gives him the antidote they make a
> Biotech(10) Test (modified by the table on page 115), and if they
This seems strange.. since most of the work is done by the
antidote... not the person administering it... it seems like that
test should be related to the power of the antidote.. does it not?
*wave*
Shane Courtrille - hardware@*******.ab.ca
Being in love... What a trip...
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 15:38:13 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!)
In-Reply-To: <s3dc7b3f.004@********.dragonsys.com>
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> room would force them to move out and build a
> new hive (IMHO).
Not to mention hunting you down en masse.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 15:45:56 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma (minor insect spirit spoilers!) -Reply
>> room would force them to move out and build
a
>> new hive (IMHO).
>
>Not to mention hunting you down en masse.
There is that. The bugs would be
rather...motivated <EGMG>
Double-Domed Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 15:17:25 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells -Reply
In-Reply-To: <199707281646.KAA10391@******> from "david lowe" at Jul 28,
97 09:56:55 am
Content-Type: text
david lowe wrote:
|
| At 11:37 AM 7/28/97, Wendy Wanders, Subject 117 wrote:
|
| >By this argument, why isn't air opaque, then? It's there, why shouldn't it
| >intervene, if glass does? It's so much simpler for things to work as they do
| >on the physical, rather than ruling case-by-case whether they are transparent
| >or not. Would a pool of water be transparent or opaque, for instance?
| >
| >losthalo
|
| I would say that distilled water, or reasonably polluted water would be
| transparent, but that most other bodies of water would not only be opaque,
| but would block astral movement. Most bodies of water are chock full of
| life. Hmmm, FAB without all that hassle anyone?
I would rule that poluted water would be opaque, if it's full of
particulate matter in a suspension. Clear water that's poisoned
would be transparent (which might be a clue for a mystery adventure
:).
A liquid should be transperant or opaque depending on how much
particulate matter is in suspension, and/or how much "life" is in
it.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 16:53:29 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Fayes y Angel Ramos <hansa@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Hallucinogens in SR
In-Reply-To: <19970723.181225.10550.1.Spamquat@****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:12 PM 23/07/1997 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>Any ideas on the game mechanics/effects for the use of hallucinogens in
>SR? Peyote, LSD, Shrooms... How hard might they be to acquire? How might
>they affect Magicians, especially shamans? (Keeping in mind the native
>belief in peyote as a method of inducing visions and becoming closer to
>the spirits) What nasty side affects might certain hallucinogens have
>since the Awakening? There's lots of evil Gm fodder here....
>
In Plastic Warriors (edited by Gurth) you can find rules for that.
The Elven mage
Who likes PW very much
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 02:16:00 GMT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Shadowrun Movies (was Re: A Li'l Ole Question)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9707251134.D23184-0100000@****.bcl.net>
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on 25.07.97 wolfjack@****.BCL.NET wrote:
w> >
w> > BTW for a REAL Shadowrun like movie, try the Origianl "Nemesis"
w> >
w>
w> I thought that "Nemesis" had more of a CyberPunk, R. Talsorian Games,
w> feel to it that an SR one. Some of the quotes, how things were done, etc
w> were very CyberPunk.
Yeah. It's very gibsoid. But that's what SR is like. Just with magic...
bye
## CrossPoint v3.1 ##
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 02:26:00 GMT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: the uac dilemma
In-Reply-To: <01BC990A.140AB520@********.u96.stevens-tech.edu>
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on 25.07.97 jhurley1@************.EDU wrote:
j> > But you are right on one thing: a kick to the groin's not going to stop a
j> > fight. That's why you follow it up.
j>
j> A kick to the kneecap, on the other hand.
Kick the knee of the leg carrying his weight. If you hit it right, the
lower bone (what's its english name?!) will shoot right out of the back of
the knee. Most people (except those with 'regeneration') will stop
fighting, once there bones start leaving their body...nasty...
bye
## CrossPoint v3.1 ##
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Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 21:17:00 GMT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
In-Reply-To: <199707251034.MAA28798@*****.xs4all.nl>
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konichi-wa
on 25.07.97 gurth@******.NL wrote:
g> For instance, Jeff the grade 0 initiate loses a magic point (somebody
g> shot off his arm and he failed his magic loss check). He chooses a geas of
g> gesturing for the lost MP, so if he gestures he has a Magic rating of 6,
g> while if he doesn't, it's 5.
g> Then he initiates to grade 1. If using method A, he'd have a Magic rating
g> of 6 and no geas; with method B his Magic rating is 6 if he doesn't
g> gesture, and 7 when he does.
Maybe I'm wrong (I didn't get the original 'Geasa' post) but you give the
player the options 6 MP without gestureing and 7 with, or 6 with or
without it, right? So, why should he take the second one? It would just
erase his chance to cast better spells whith gestures.
bye
## CrossPoint v3.1 ##
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 02:05:00 GMT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
In-Reply-To: <yam7146.2039.136416864@****.amigaworld.com>
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Hi!
on 26.07.97 barbie@**********.COM wrote:
b> Thats true our powerlevel is in our old charactergroup fairly high.
b> Me going for 512 karma the rest between 450 and 300.
b> And we are six and up most of the time.
b> Most of them have some skill in the range of 12 to 20.
b> Mainly for their main field of activity but some are just for "hobby"
b> skills like painting dance or so.
One thing: Is it fun anymore?
In my group we decided that skills 10+ are above what you can hold as a
normal person (We still have to convince our GM. He's bit out of scale
lately). O.K. you can learn one skill at level 15 for some time, but one
month out of training (and I'm talking about all-day-training) and you are
back at 12 or something like that. If your char can do anything, why play
anymore? Why find the guy who coded the MCT mainframe OS and get some
information about it, when you can crack it with a RadioShack-deck?
BTW, how long have you played these chars. Some friends of mine play the
same guys since two years and the best they have is a troll with a karma-
pool of 12...
bye
## CrossPoint v3.1 ##
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 18:39:00 GMT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Karma and Attributes
In-Reply-To: <199707262204.SAA27848@****.provide.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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on 26.07.97 vanyel@*******.NET wrote:
v> I feel that since it's the sammies that tend to increase their attributes
v> the most, that it's fine by me if they get stuck paying more than mages
v> because a spell lock can be turned off. At least their cyber/bioware can't
v> be grounded through. It all has its ups and downs. I would also rule that
v> Physads can't turn of their increased attributes, either. Thus, they too
v> would get stuck paying the higher cost....which is also fine by me for the
v> same reason.
Well, I don't think thats o.k. You are right, the fighters (Sams, Mercs,
Physads, etc) *have* to increase their attributes the most. If you would
make that more expensive to them, they would fall back behind mages as the
game developes (this is already happening in SR, anyway). It's not that
much fun anymore, if a 100 karmapoints mage takes down three fighters of
the same karmalevel without even starting to sweat.
You can keep control of the skill/attribute/spell/whatever ratings by
simply letting the GM decide whether the char can increase it or not.
Works just fine in our group (O.K., you need a non-asshole GM, but if your
GM *is* an asshole, it's no fun anyway).
Tobias
## CrossPoint v3.1 ##
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 21:48:00 GMT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage
In-Reply-To: <199707250640.BAA27934@*******.fgi.net>
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on 25.07.97 topcat@***.NET wrote:
t> Here's a Chromium Mage (Burnout) for ya...
[cutting...]
t> Skills (10 pts)
t> ---------------
t> Sorcery: 6
t> Magic Theory: 3
t> Hermetic: 5
Hmmm...Where I come from, he wouldn't survive ten minutes. No chance to
flee, fight or anything. Kinda like a weapon I take out of my van, use to
blow everything into pieces and put back before it get's damaged. No fun
at all. (No *roleplaying* at all)
t> Mana Missile 6 (drain 3M physical)
t> Stun Bolt 6 (drain 2S physical)
t> Treat 6 [drain 3(wound level) physical, target 7]
t> Redirect 6 [drain (1/2 spell force)(spell damage code - 1 DC) physical]
t> Power Dart 6 (drain 4L physical)
Ouch!
t> Secure Jacket (dikoted) 6/4 armor rating
t> Helmet (dikoted) 2/2 armor rating
t> Forearm Guards (dikoted) 1/3 armor rating (only in melee)
t> Large Riot Shield (dikoted) 3/1 armor rating (not in melee)
t> >>>>[That's an 11/8 armor factor, 9/10 in melee, 8/7 without
toys]<<<<
t> DocWagon Platinum
t> As much high lifestyle as can be afforded...
Do you allow dikoted stuff at CharGen?
t> 4) Stats - gotta raise Body, so he's nigh-impossible to hurt, and Strength,
t> so he can eventually wear dikoted heavy military armor...
STOP!! Dikoted heavy milspec?!? What is this? The Mr. Mega-Munchkin-
Contest? I don't know any GM who would allow this (and I know quite a lot)
This guy's a nice example how to make a killing-maschine, but no char.
t> Granted, this character represents perhaps the pinnacle of powergaming for
t> his sort.
And my GM didn't allow my phyad to have unarmed combat >8.....Man!
t> It was intended to be such though, and I have no intentions
t> whatsoever of playing such a beast (though I would happily play a cybered
t> mage, this one doesn't thrill me).
Do you think, he is playable?
bye
## CrossPoint v3.1 ##
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 17:08:35 +1000
Reply-To: jade@***.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jason & Deanna Rodhouse <jade@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Area Spells
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:51:28 -0500 Glenn Brook said:
snip
>Finally, an astrally perceiving mage would be able to target
>both physical and astral targets but would be subject to a +2 TN
>(associated with the attempt to make a physical action while astrally
>perceiving) when targeting physical targets.
I don't think the +2 TN modifier would apply in this scenario since the
spellcaster is indeed casting a spell. Finding the target wouldn't
necessarily be a strictly physical action. The modifier only really
applies when the magician is trying to do something not directly tied to
the astral plane(ie. tying his shoelaces, talking to someone). Being
that all living things have a bright shiny aura, the TN modifier would
not apply when trying to spot them.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 00:10:55 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Rhenium polymers
In-Reply-To: <505E6C4C1EA1D011B90D00805FE2F492073B15@*********.reichhold.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 28-Jul-97 wrote Jackson, Hank:
##### # # # # ## #####
# # # # # # # # #
# ###### # # # # # #
# # # # ## # ###### #####
# # # ## ## # # #
# # # # # # # #
DON`T USE MIME, READ THE FAQ WHY
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 18:19:51 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Scott Spencer <java@**********.COM>
Subject: Shadowrn
Comments: To: SRcreate <srcreate@****.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Is the Shadowrn list down or am I just paranoid that I have not gotten any
mail all weekend.
Java
"And into the heart of the Storm, with a cry that pierced all other sounds,
tearing clouds asunder, the Nazgul came...And all were branded with the
foul token of the Lidless Eye"
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 19:16:13 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Geasa
On Sun, 27 Jul 1997 21:17:00 GMT Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
writes:
>konichi-wa
Welcome!
Bull, I *think* that's your cue (and since I don't know enough Japanese
to find a bathroom, I'm not entirely sure:)
<el snippo de Gurth :) >
<<Maybe I'm wrong (I didn't get the original 'Geasa' post) but you give
the player the options 6 MP without gestureing and 7 with, or 6 with or
without it, right? So, why should he take the second one? It would just
erase his chance to cast better spells whith gestures.>>
What Gurth was talking about was allowing the character shed the geased
magic point and replace it with a new, non-geased point. The advantage is
that he no longer needs to gesture, the disadvantage is that he loses the
possibility of an extra point for spellcasting or whatever.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 19:16:13 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage
On Sun, 27 Jul 1997 21:48:00 GMT Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
writes:
<very big snip>
>STOP!! Dikoted heavy milspec?!? What is this? The Mr. Mega-Munchkin-
>Contest? I don't know any GM who would allow this (and I know quite a
>lot)
>This guy's a nice example how to make a killing-maschine, but no char.
I don't know if this will hit the list before Bob's message does, but I
think you missed the message that spawned this. TopCat's Chrome Mage was
designed to absolutely abuse the rules system, it was intended to test
out how far you could go with the idea of a burned-out mage and see just
how munchkinish a character could be created with that idea in mind. It
wasn't designed to be realistic, or playable (from the standpoint of
personality;) It was designed to stretch the rules as far as possible.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 19:13:47 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [GC] Re: Gen Con, Guest list :) UPDATED 26JULY:1005L
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:52 PM 7/27/97 -0500, Adam J. Lyle wrote these timeless words:
<SNIP>
and me, even though I am new to
>this list and have posted just one reply.
Well then, let me just say "HI!" and welcome you to the list.
+++++ BULL-BOT ACTIVATED
+++++ AUTO GREET INITIATED
Hello there, new list-member Adam J. Lyle! Welcome to the Shadowrn Mailing
List!
It's a great place, with good people and great discussion! hope ya like mail!
+++++ AUTO OFF TOPIC RANDOM GENERATOR v2.1 INITIATED
+++++ TOPIC #827
I may be a BOT, but I have feeling, DAMMIT! :]
+++++ END AUTO GREET
Bull-the-Welcome-Ork-Decker
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 19:13:44 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Rhenium polymers
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:10 AM 7/29/97 -0500, Barbie wrote these timeless words:
>At 28-Jul-97 wrote Jackson, Hank:
>
>
> ##### # # # # ## #####
> # # # # # # # # #
> # ###### # # # # # #
> # # # # ## # ###### #####
> # # # ## ## # # #
> # # # # # # # #
>
>
>DON`T USE MIME, READ THE FAQ WHY
>
>
Heh...
Hey Spike! Barbie's doing your job, dude...:]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 19:13:49 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: help
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:47 PM 7/27/97 -0400, Ian White wrote these timeless words:
>Help me please????????????
>I've newly joined the list and changed to the digest version, but have
>decided that I prefer individual postings.
>My problem is I don't know how to change back.
>could someone please help me???
>
Well, you've already gotten some help with the digest stuff, so I won;t
repeat it all.
But... I need to officially greet you to the list still, so...:]
+++++ BULL-BOT ACTIVATED
+++++ AUTO GREET INITIATED
Hello there, new list-member Dernhelm! Welcome to the Shadowrn Mailing List!
It's a great place, with good people and great discussion! hope ya like mail!
+++++ AUTO OFF TOPIC RANDOM GENERATOR v3.0 INITIATED
+++++ TOPIC #631
Keaton, Clooney, Kilmer, or West?
+++++ END AUTO GREET
Bull-the-welcome-Ork-Decker
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 19:16:13 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: [SR3] Conjuring
I was doing some thinking (dangerous, I know) on the Conjuring rules as
written in SR2, and had a flash of sudden inspiration on a revised set of
conjuring rules (unfortunately, I don't think they're any less clunky).
The system I wound up with is similar to Spellcasting
Anyways, here's what I was thinking:
Conjuring Pool:
The Conjuring Pool is similar to the Magic (which, for clarity,
could be re-named the Sorcery Pool) Pool used in spellcasting and is
based upon the summoner's Conjuring Skill. A Shaman's totem modifiers add
or subtract from the Conjuring Pool. Spirit Foci add dice to the
Conjuring Pool. Power Foci add their rating to the bonded magician's
Magic Rating, and also to his/her Magic and Conjuring Pools.
Summoning:
Summoning Drain is figured by replacing Magic with Charisma in
the chart on pg140 of SR2. Drain is resisted with Willpower and any dice
thrown in from the newly-created Conjuring Pool.
To summon a spirit, the magician rolls his/her Charisma, plus any
allocated dice from the Conjuring Pool, against a target number equal to
the spirit's force, modified only by wound modiiers or geas modifiers
(under SR2). The summoning magician may throw in up to his Magic Rating
in dice from his Conjuring Pool. Every two successes equals one service.
Banishing:
Banishing a spirit pits the magician's will against that of the
spirit ("by the power of my will..."). In a banishing test, the magician
rolls his Willpower (plus Conjuring Pool) against the spirit's Force. The
spirit rolls its willpower (usually equal to its Force) against the
magician's Magic Rating. The winner's net successes reduce the loser's
Magic/Force Rating by one for every two successes.
I haven't gotten to the tests on commanding uncontrolled/free spirits or
the ones for contesting the control of a spirit from the controlling
magician, but I wanted to see what the list in general thought of the
idea so far. I'm hoping it becomes a bit easier by being more like the
spellcasting system, which is (I think) a bit better known due to greater
use.
--
-Canthros, vanishing back into the electronic ether to get back to work
on updating his webpage...
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 18:36:49 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
In-Reply-To: <19970728.191514.25679.3.lobo1@****.com>
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On Mon, 28 Jul 1997, John E Pederson wrote:
> Summoning:
> Summoning Drain is figured by replacing Magic with Charisma in
> the chart on pg140 of SR2. Drain is resisted with Willpower and any dice
> thrown in from the newly-created Conjuring Pool.
> To summon a spirit, the magician rolls his/her Charisma, plus any
> allocated dice from the Conjuring Pool, against a target number equal to
> the spirit's force, modified only by wound modiiers or geas modifiers
> (under SR2). The summoning magician may throw in up to his Magic Rating
> in dice from his Conjuring Pool. Every two successes equals one service.
Hold it; if you replace the conjuring "skill" with naked charisma, then
what is the point of having that skill at all. I like this idea, but leave
it as a skill test, and not as a charisma test.
just my 0.02
-Bill
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Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 02:06:20 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
In-Reply-To: <6ajjFALwX3B@****.komet.teuto.de>
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At 27-Jul-97 wrote Tobias Berghoff:
>Hi!
>One thing: Is it fun anymore?
Oh definetly
>In my group we decided that skills 10+ are above what you can hold as a
>normal person (We still have to convince our GM. He's bit out of scale
>lately). O.K. you can learn one skill at level 15 for some time, but one
>month out of training (and I'm talking about all-day-training) and you are
>back at 12 or something like that.
Nice thoughts but IMHO the time scale to forgett a skilllevel is much
to low, maybe make it basetime=skilllevel devided by six or so
and the result is the time in months in that you will lose a skilllevel
if the skill in question is not used/trained.
Throw some memory rolls in it to see if the character can hold his skilllevel
if he don`t use the skill.
Or make it simple just use a memoryroll once a year for every skill of the
character
modify the roll if the character has used the skill.
Just my quick thoughts.
>If your char can do anything, why play
>anymore? Why find the guy who coded the MCT mainframe OS and get some
>information about it, when you can crack it with a RadioShack-deck?
>BTW, how long have you played these chars. Some friends of mine play the
>same guys since two years and the best they have is a troll with a karma-
>pool of 12...
Oh our charcters as a whole can do much anything but alone?
These are specialist.
MCT mainframe? Not a nice place and in our game even we need more
than an radio-shack(tm).
And sometimes you find the info you need not in the net you must
talk to the people in question.
And with the things we do comes also greet responsibility so we are not just
a bunch of superpowered thuggs. We are in the upperclass of shadowrunning like
Bull and some other too.
<Bow to Bull the-famos-Ork-decker>
Some of the characters in our game are as old as the first edition :-)
Maincore around four to five years.
pool 45 is the highst :]
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
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Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 02:11:28 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Rhenium polymers
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970728185954.2faf6d0e@*****.com>
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At 28-Jul-97 wrote Bull:
>Hey Spike! Barbie's doing your job, dude...:]
Just as deputy :-)
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
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Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 20:22:31 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Mon, 28 Jul 1997 19:16:13 -0400 (EDT)"
<19970728.191514.25679.3.lobo1@****.com>
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You wrote:
> Conjuring Pool:
> The Conjuring Pool is similar to the Magic (which, for clarity,
> could be re-named the Sorcery Pool) Pool used in spellcasting and is
> based upon the summoner's Conjuring Skill. A Shaman's totem modifiers add
> or subtract from the Conjuring Pool. Spirit Foci add dice to the
> Conjuring Pool. Power Foci add their rating to the bonded magician's
> Magic Rating, and also to his/her Magic and Conjuring Pools.
Okay, a small problem I see with this is that while Magic Pool sometimes needs
to be saved to defend against spells, it's rare that you'd need to hold back
any of the dice in your Conjuring Pool, you'd rather pump as many as possible
into whatever you're doing. This method basically just gives more dive for
Conjuring-related tests. If that's what you want, that's fine, but I don't
personally think it's needed. The system's are closer to the procedures for
casting spells with Sorcery, so it does make the magic system a little more
similar and compatible, so that's one strength. I would just rather see less
dice supplements in the game overall.
losthalo
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Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 20:35:10 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TEGTMEBC@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Mon, 28 Jul 1997 18:36:49 -0500"
<Pine.SOL.3.91.970728183504.4235B-100000@******.tamu.edu>
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You wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Jul 1997, John E Pederson wrote:
> > Summoning:
> > Summoning Drain is figured by replacing Magic with Charisma in
> > the chart on pg140 of SR2. Drain is resisted with Willpower and any dice
> > thrown in from the newly-created Conjuring Pool.
> > To summon a spirit, the magician rolls his/her Charisma, plus any
> > allocated dice from the Conjuring Pool, against a target number equal to
> > the spirit's force, modified only by wound modiiers or geas modifiers
> > (under SR2). The summoning magician may throw in up to his Magic Rating
> > in dice from his Conjuring Pool. Every two successes equals one service.
> Hold it; if you replace the conjuring "skill" with naked charisma, then
> what is the point of having that skill at all. I like this idea, but leave
> it as a skill test, and not as a charisma test.
You're right about not having any use for the skill if Charisma is used
in it's stead, but that's how it works with spellcasting. The Sorcery skill
doesn't do a whole lot of good except give you a good Magic Pool. That said, I
like the idea of the Conjuring Pool, so it is possible to conjure high force
elementals and spirits without having to be an elf. But I also have to agree
with Bill here, and say you should still use the conjuring skill for the test.
I personally think the sorcery skill should be used for something other than
giving a extra dice pool as well. In the case of the Conjuring Pool, maybe it
would be possible to reverse what you have listed for the test. Maybe you could
have the Pool be based off of the Charisma, while the test is still using the
Conjuring Skill. That sound too far out of whack to you?
-The Immortal Mental
PS- It's good to finally be back after summer.
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Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 20:44:33 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TEGTMEBC@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU
Subject: Re: Area Spells
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Mon, 28 Jul 1997 10:45:14 -0600"
<199707281645.KAA10201@******>
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David wrote:
> Mike Elkins wrote:
> |
> | Here's another "thought experiment":
> |
> | A magician casts a physical area-of-effect spell
> | at a point in the middle of a wheat field. Does it
> | only effect the wheat stalks towards the front that
> | he can see well, does it effect a nice neat circle
> | in the crop, or does it effect a few dozen or so
> | stalks that happen to be the ones his mind
> | "noticed"? Substitute a crowd in a passing
> | subway car if you think a field of wheat is too
> | boring...
> I'm gonna say that the wheat that the magician can't see isn't
> affected by the combat spell (ditto for the people in the crowd).
> This is a rule that I've had to read a lot, cuz one of the players in
> my game keeps trying to use Fireball to affect targets around corners
> (We're playing SR, not AD$D! <sigh>). It doesn't matter what's
> blocking your sight.
OK, I have to bring this up, because it's just been bugging me. Now if
a spell isn't able to affect people that the magician can't see, as you
suggest, then how does the area of effect get handled? For example: The mage
that loves to hit people with fireballs from around corners is being chased by
a mob of angery people. He ducks around a corner, and whaits for his victims.
The moment the first person walks around the corner, he can now see them and so
lets loose with a fireball. The person he could see is obviously a dead duck,
but what happens in regard to the rest of the mob that was right behind him?
They are, for the sake of argument, still within the normal radius of the
spell. Are these people supposed to be affected by the spell or not? I would
say that they would be affected based on the fact that they weren't the targets
of the spell, they just got caught in the blast. But from your argument, it
would seem that they should be unaffected since the caster can't see them.
I'm not trying to shoot holes in your logic, I just want to know why
the people wouldn't be affected by a blast that is in the physical plane. After
all, once it hits the target, it changes form the astral to the physical plane.
At least that's how I think it works.
-The Immortal Mental
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Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 21:00:57 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
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I just wanted to let you know that I really like the Conjuring rules the
way they are currently. They are clean and concise, and they don't allow
folks to whip up high force spirits without recourse.
Not that the suggestions made weren't nice, I just don't think the system
needs to be changed.
Justin :)
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Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 21:06:12 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Area Spells
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> From: TEGTMEBC@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU
> Date: Monday, July 28, 1997 9:44 PM
<Snip>
> David wrote:
> > This is a rule that I've had to read a lot, cuz one of the players in
> > my game keeps trying to use Fireball to affect targets around corners
> > (We're playing SR, not AD$D! <sigh>). It doesn't matter what's
> > blocking your sight.
> OK, I have to bring this up, because it's just been bugging me.
Now if
> a spell isn't able to affect people that the magician can't see, as you
> suggest, then how does the area of effect get handled? For example: The
mage
> that loves to hit people with fireballs from around corners is being
chased by
> a mob of angery people. He ducks around a corner, and whaits for his
victims.
> The moment the first person walks around the corner, he can now see them
and so
> lets loose with a fireball. The person he could see is obviously a dead
duck,
> but what happens in regard to the rest of the mob that was right behind
him?
They are not in LOS, therefore they are not affected. Your area effect
spell just hit one person only.
> They are, for the sake of argument, still within the normal radius of the
> spell. Are these people supposed to be affected by the spell or not? I
would
No, because for area of effect spells (except for DMs), you must be able to
see anyone/thing you want to target by the spell. Area of effect has no
effect on this. Anyone that can be seen within the area of effect of the
spell will be effected.
> say that they would be affected based on the fact that they weren't the
targets
> of the spell, they just got caught in the blast. But from your argument,
it
> would seem that they should be unaffected since the caster can't see
them.
He is correct by stating this.
> I'm not trying to shoot holes in your logic, I just want to know
why
> the people wouldn't be affected by a blast that is in the physical plane.
After
> all, once it hits the target, it changes form the astral to the physical
plane.
> At least that's how I think it works.
It still grounds through their auras. If you can't see them, the spell
doesn't target their auras.
Damaging Maniputations (DMs) behave differently. They don't target auras,
thus a blast of flame or whatever fills the area of effect, effecting
everyone within it.
Hope that clears things up a bit. :)
> -The Immortal
Mental
Justin :)
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Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 20:55:38 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: James Paulsen <lowfyr@***********.COM>
Organization: Northern Net
Subject: My New Campaign
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Hey all, I need some input :)
I have decided to start a new campaign (as soon as the characters in the
current game retire), but I have sorta changed the premise of my game,
or at least the beginning of it.
Instead of having the players create characters who are already
shadowrunners, I want to try more of a roleplayed background. I have
done this before in just about every game I play, just never SR. I am
going to have them create fairly mundane characters (wageslaves, small
time corps, or, if I am feeling really charitable, maybe a cop, corpsec,
or a gutterpunk, but nothing heavy).
Anyway, the whole concept is based on easing them from their mundane,
tragically boring lives into the world of Big Scary Shadowrunners--make
them the innocents, and initially the victims (well...later too, but
that's another story ;).
To begin with they will have very few shadowrunish skills, mostly only
those that would be tied to a mundane character (i.e. Electronics B/R
for a repairman, etc.). The same will apply to both magic and cyberware.
If they want any, it will have to justifiable, legal, and rational for
them to get anything beyond a datajack.
Eventually they will become "full blown" runners, having a detailed and
thouroghly played out background of how they entered the biz. I am very
excited about this as are my players, but I was wondering if anybody had
ever done this sort of thing and if so how it worked out? Also, we
generally prefer the point based system (no mertis or flaws, however, as
I usually dole out the merits and flaws in their bg with out points
or benefits)so are there any ideas on how to restrict the system to keep
them from making a real kick-ass janitor?
Anyway...gotta stop blabbing,
Thanks in advance,
Jim
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Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 23:03:38 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
On Mon, 28 Jul 1997 18:36:49 -0500 William Monroe Ashe
<wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU> writes:
<<Hold it; if you replace the conjuring "skill" with naked charisma, then
what is the point of having that skill at all. I like this idea, but
leave it as a skill test, and not as a charisma test.>>
The reason I did that was to keep from making Charisma the 'unused
attribute' and give it some practical use outside social situations (and
thus give a reason for a munchkin to have a Charisma greater than one). I
certainly see your point, If I can find a better way of keeping Charisma
important, I'll certainly go that route (maybe make the Conjuring Pool
based on Attriubutes?).
The whole idea behind this was to create a conjuring system that makes
sense, while not making Charisma a near-useless attribute. Hmmm...maybe a
modifier for Charisma depending on its rating.
<shrug> Got any ideas?
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
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Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 23:03:38 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
On Mon, 28 Jul 1997 20:22:31 -0500 "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU> writes:
<<Okay, a small problem I see with this is that while Magic Pool
sometimes needs to be saved to defend against spells, it's rare that
you'd need to hold back any of the dice in your Conjuring Pool, you'd
rather pump as many as possible into whatever you're doing.>>
Well, the mage still needs to stay awake, or he loses the spirit, and not
resisting all the drain isn't going to do a shaman any favors (why bother
with a spirit in the middle of combat if it'll save your butt only so
that you can fall unconcious and get captured anyway?)
<<This method basically just gives more dive for Conjuring-related tests.
If that's what you want, that's fine, but I don't personally think it's
needed. The system's are closer to the procedures for casting spells
with Sorcery, so it does make the magic system a little more similar and
compatible, so that's one strength. I would just rather see less dice
supplements in the game overall.>>
:) I figured I'd get this complaint from you:) I really am against giving
more dice to the players, but I'm also trying to preserve the use of both
Conjuring Skill and Charisma, while still getting a system that makes
some sort of sense. I also wanted to allow the summoning magician a bit
more flexibility on his summoning (this would mean more to a shaman than
mage, though). It's not always easy to improve upon something, and I'd
certainly be more than welcome to input. If you've got any ideas, I'd
love to hear them...
--
-Canthros (Ah, well. The list was seeming kind of quiet anyway...)
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
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Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 23:03:38 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
On Mon, 28 Jul 1997 20:35:10 -0500 TEGTMEBC@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU writes:
<<You're right about not having any use for the skill if Charisma is used
in it's stead, but that's how it works with spellcasting. The Sorcery
skill doesn't do a whole lot of good except give you a good Magic Pool.
That said, I like the idea of the Conjuring Pool, so it is possible to
conjure high force elementals and spirits without having to be an elf.
But I also have to agree with Bill here, and say you should still use the
conjuring skill for the test. I personally think the sorcery skill should
be used for something other than giving a extra dice pool as well. In the
case of the Conjuring Pool, maybe it would be possible to reverse what
you have listed for the test. Maybe you could have the Pool be based off
of the Charisma, while the test is still using the Conjuring Skill. That
sound too far out of whack to you?>>
No, it doesn't, and I'd even considered just such an idea, but it then
does the same thing to Charisma that what I've just proposed does to
Conjuring skill (how anyone would be able to plausibly conjure a spirit
without at least a little bit of Conjuring Skill [or some serious
defaulting], I don't know, and any GM that let a player do such a thing
had better have some good reasoning behind him:). As I said (or will say,
depending on what order these messages wind up in) in my reply to Bill,
I'm trying to set it up in such a way that Charisma remains important,
certain discrepancies that (IMO) exist in the rules as-is (Drain based on
and resisted by Charisma) get fixed and Conjuring skill doesn't get set
totally by the wayside. Keeping the skill involved is the only reason
there's a dice pool at all.
Plan B: Summoning is handled by a Conjuring(Force) test, successes from
this test may be applied to the Conjuring Drain resistance test.
<<PS- It's good to finally be back after summer.>>
_After_ summer? It's still July! That sounds a lot like summer (if you're
in the northern hemisphere, anyway:)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 23:03:38 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
On Mon, 28 Jul 1997 21:00:57 -0400 Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
writes:
<<I just wanted to let you know that I really like the Conjuring rules
the way they are currently. They are clean and concise, and they don't
allow folks to whip up high force spirits without recourse.
Not that the suggestions made weren't nice, I just don't think the system
needs to be changed.>>
My only complaint with the system as-is is the way that Conjuring Drain
is handled, I don't think it should be based on Charisma and it doesn't
make sense that it would be resisted by it, either. Of course, that's
only my opinion, I'm not sure what the general list opinion on the idea
is.
--
-Canthros (you know, if it weren't for the useful feedback I'm getting
out of this, I think I'd be sorry I ever proposed it:) And Kumquat? You
were right. It _is_ like throwing raw meat at a pack of rabid animals:)
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
