| From: | Unknown sender |
|---|---|
| Subject: | None |
| Date: | Unknown time and date |
>Re: Catpeople. Do you mean the part about the guy's arm getting torn
>off, or the idea of having a shapechanger as a girlfriend?
Hey! thats me.
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 00:17:18 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Greetings
In-Reply-To: <199707291919.NAA26327@******>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 29-Jul-97 wrote David Buehrer:
>Here's a freebie toy: the chunky salsa grenade. Take a grenade and
>quicken a mana barrier to it. Set the mana barrier to go off as the
>grenade does. When the grenade goes off the mana barrier springs
>into place around it (at a radius of 3-6 meters, depending on the
>force of the mana barrier). The blast from the grenade will be
>reflected back and forth within the mana barrier reducing everything
>inside to a fine paste.
MANA barrier? Even with a phisical barrier you need a force 14 or higher
to pervent the barrier from been torn apart by the blast.
And quicken will not work if you throw the granade, it would only travell
as far as the radius and than the barrier will hit your body :-]
Use anchoring with a detect explosions as trigger.
All in all a evil idea but not very practical and an karmahole without end.
Or you are using karma as ammo?
--
Barbie
==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.
(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)
==================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 18:47:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
In a message dated 97-07-28 20:10:27 EDT, Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE (Tobias
Berghoff) writes:
>
> One thing: Is it fun anymore?
Fun is as decided by the group at large, remember that part.
> In my group we decided that skills 10+ are above what you can hold as a
> normal person (We still have to convince our GM. He's bit out of scale
> lately). O.K. you can learn one skill at level 15 for some time, but one
> month out of training (and I'm talking about all-day-training) and you are
> back at 12 or something like that. If your char can do anything, why play
> anymore? Why find the guy who coded the MCT mainframe OS and get some
> information about it, when you can crack it with a RadioShack-deck?
> BTW, how long have you played these chars. Some friends of mine play the
> same guys since two years and the best they have is a troll with a karma-
> pool of 12...
That would mean according to second ed, a karmic rep of not less than 120 and
likely higher. What about those points that have been "burned", if any?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 08:47:28 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Replying to Steve Kenson's clarifications:
>
> This brings up an interesting question: if I cast
> invisibility, and only get one success, am I
> invisible, or just a little blury at the edges?
The way I have always played it is this. For the invisibility spells, they
only affect normal vision (not Thermo). The viewer makes a perception
test. If he makes it, then the Target appears to be blurry, and the viewer
can shoot at him with vision modifiers. If he fails, then he can't shoot
at the target at all.
That brings me to the new spell, disregard. This works on all forms of
detection, Thermo, ultra sound, normal vision whatever. The target remains
undetectable if the viewer fails the perception test. However, if the
viewer makes the test, then the target is fully visible, as if there was no
spell cast on him at all.
Ray.
-----------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, and whatever happens,|
| You will not be missed |
-----------------------------------------------------
EMAIL: macey@*******.com.au
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 16:20:03 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [GC] IT's A RACE!!! [EG]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---Dvixen wrote:
>
> Granite scribbled on a clay tablet:
>
> > ***********************************************
> > The DC - SEATTLE TRANS-UCAS RALLY
> > ***********************************************
> >
> > Brought to you by the Denver Corridor Racing League in cooperation
> > with The Draco Foundation!
<snip>
> "What the hell is this about?"
I believe it's a prelude to the S/R Tourney Granite's judging at Gen
Con: "A Drive in the Country."
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 17:00:43 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Invisibility spells (was Re: [SR3] Area Spells)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---Shane Courtrille wrote:
>
> Can't remember where I got this idea.. but it was from some game or
> book... Invisibility (and other apperence changing spells) is all
> about belief... if you don't believe it.. then it can't affect you...
> thats what the TN means to me... the more successes.. the harder it
> is to disbelieve.... thats how I play my games... *wave*
That's how we play it to.
If you're standing right in front of someone, and they watch you cast
the spell (i.e. teammates, or the guard looking at you) they already
know you're there and the spell will not affect them. Likewise,
someone who makes the T# 14 to see through your invisibilty has now
broken through the effects of the spell, disbelieved the illusion,
thus they no longer affected by it whether they look away or not.
This may smack of *&** but it's how I play the idea of illusion.
I also got this better understanding from one of the S/R novels,
Changeling I think. Yes I know they're not canon. However, in one
scene the mage turns her decker girlfriend invisible (using a kiss as
the touch requirement). The main character and the rest of the group
can still see her, since they were present at the casting of the spell
the illusion didn't affect them.
Anyways, hope this helps explain where I'm coming from.
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 20:28:00 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
On Tue, 29 Jul 1997 09:32:45 -0400 Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
writes:
<snip stuff on Conjuring that I mostly agree with>
>Also, IMHO, there already is a "Conjuring Pool" of sorts in SR2. Your
>Conjuring Skill dice can be split up between the Summoning Test and
>the Drain
>Test in any way desired, just like Magic Pool for spells.
Is there a canonical source for this? I don't recall seeing it in the
BBB...
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 20:27:59 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
On Tue, 29 Jul 1997 11:50:51 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>John E Pederson said on 19:16/28 Jul 97...
>
>> Summoning:
>> Summoning Drain is figured by replacing Magic with Charisma
>in
>> the chart on pg140 of SR2.
>
>For clarity, you may want to rephrase that to read "replacing Charisma
>by
>Magic" I think.
Yeah, I think so:) I don't know how that slipped by me...
>Apart from that, it looks good, not to mention usable, to me.
Wow! A vote of confidence:)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 20:28:00 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
On Tue, 29 Jul 1997 13:49:03 +0100 Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
writes:
>I think I know FASAs reasoning for using Charisma as drain.
>With spellcasting, you're mentally channelling impersonal energy. This
>is
>tiring, and requires willpower....
>
>When you summon, it's a different TYPE of battle you're fighting.
>It's not a matter of strength of WILL, but strength of character....
>Trying to force a sentient being to do something it doesn't want to
>do, by
>pure force if personality.....
This is also tiring, and would require willpower:)
How does one kind of drain differ from the other? The source is
different, but the end effect is the same. The act of negotiating with
the spirit should be represented with the Charisma or Conjuring test,
Drain should still be resisted by Willpower...
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 20:27:59 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
On Tue, 29 Jul 1997 00:21:33 -0400 Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
writes:
>Thus, you are inviting a response, eh? ;) Well, I am sure you will
>get
>one from others, but here's mine:
:) Seems I've gotten lots of response on this subject:)
>Charisma is used to represent the social interaction with the spirit
<snipping away>
>I believe the folks at FASA did their homework when it came to magic.
>The
>use of Charisma to influence spirits is well documented in occult
>texts.
>
>However, I would like to make it clear that the entirety of this post
>(everything written by myself, anyway) is all just my opinion. None
>of
>this was drawn upon from canonical Shadowrun sources. However, I
>still
>feel the Conjuring rules are fine the way they are, and hope that the
>explaination I proposed above helps to clarify things a bit for you.
I just feel that the use of Charisma in that way (which is, btw, about
the same as my opinion) represents the test made in summoning the spirit,
not the one made in resisting drain. I also don't see how this
necessarily represents the system used to determine Drain (I see how it
could be interpreted that way, I just don't agree with that
interpretation:). This was why I suggested the Charisma test with
Conjuring as a pool, but I'm not real fond of that idea since it doesn't
make it necessary for the character to have Conjuring Skill. This has
also sparked some ideas on the relationship of magical skills and the
skill web, but I'm saving that for until after I've checked to see how
they're currently laid out.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 20:28:00 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
On Tue, 29 Jul 1997 00:00:53 -0500 TEGTMEBC@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU writes:
<<See, I think having the drain based on the Charisma is a good thing,
especially for a shaman, since conjuring is basically asking for the
spirits to do tasks for you. The nicer you ask and the more convincing
you are, the more tasks the spirit will do for you. So to me, Charisma is
definitely the best way to determine the drain. As for the resistance, I
don't know whether that would be better as Willpower, as you had
suggested earlier, or if it would be better to stay with using the
Charisma. If you were to stay with the Charisma resistance, then ditch
the pool all together, otherwise you effectively double the resistance
dice for no reason.>>
Two problems with Charisma-based summoning Drain: game balance and
consistency. It's potentially unbalancing because a character with
practically no Magic Rating at all can summon some big-a$$ spirit with
little or no recourse. It's inconsistent because it doesn't match up with
the way Drain is determined for the other half of the Magic System
(namely, spellcasting). The two really should match up, IMO, for both
simplicity and consistency.
>> Plan B: Summoning is handled by a Conjuring(Force) test, successes
from
>> this test may be applied to the Conjuring Drain resistance test.
>
<<So when you get alot of successes, you have to determine how many you
want to go toward tasks the spirit has to perform and those that would be
put toward the drain? It doesn't sound bad at all. Instead of just
allocating those successes toward the drain resistance, maybe you could
modify the target number based on how many successes are put toward it.
If you went for this option, don't worry about a Conjuring Pool. People
would then be conjuring spirits that would be higher force than usual,
but they wouldn't have nearly as many jobs that would be performed. But
don't get me wrong when I say that people would be getting higher force
spirits, I consider Force 6-8 to be high force spirits. That's why I
thought that elves got off easier for conjuring them. They can actually
have a Charisma that high. But yes, I think I like this idea better than
that of the Conjuring Pool. If you were allowed to put successes toward a
resistance modifier, I think you would see the use of spirits becoming
more prevalent, but they wouldn't stay around as long.>>
Putting successes toward reducing the target number would be a good idea,
if it weren't for the fact that no other part of the game system
(excepting Centering, which is metamagic and thus limited) works this
way, and it's also just a tad bit more complicated. Being able to
allocate successes from the summoning test as well as the Drain
resistance test is relatively simple, and is similar to how successes can
usually be dedicated toward reducing the base time or toward staging up
damage (or the spell effect) in spellcasting.
<<I've been back at classes for the past three weeks. Before that I was
on "vacation" for almost two months. So my summer is effectively over.>>
Harsh. I've still got about a month before I start college...
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 20:28:00 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
On Wed, 30 Jul 1997 07:20:59 -0500 Gossamer <kajohnson@*******.TEC.WI.US>
writes:
>Oh, my God! This is the third time in the known timestream that I
>have agreed with or in any way supported this child, but here it is.
You're still hacked about that thing with the Highlander movie, aren't
you?
:) And since when have I been a 'child'? It's been at least 3 or 4
years:)
>I like your ideas on making Conjuring (and magick in general)
>more uniform. I think with a bit more work, it would be worthy
>suggestion to make to the SR3 people.
That's what I'm hoping...Any suggestions that might help out?
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 20:27:59 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
On Tue, 29 Jul 1997 01:49:52 -0500 "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU> writes:
<snip>
<<Sorry. At least I'm consistent! ;)>>
That's one word for it:)
<<Seriously, though, adding ways to get more dice for Conjuring can
unbalance characters (I recall an experiment where I allowed a certain
Cat shaman to forego the limit of a single spirit of a given type at a
time... bad idea). Anyway, if you really like this approach you've
described, I say just watch how many dice are possible, because one of
the things that makes Sorcery powerful is the number of supplemental dice
you can get to pump into a spell. Without that Sorcery would not
outshine Conjuring the way it does, nor make people cringe the way it
does. Characters will get more successes and be able to call up bigger
spirits/get more services, and that does a lot to game balance imo.>>
Actually, I agree, I just couldn't find another way to keep both Charisma
and Conjuring Skill involved and still have it make sense to me. Also, as
I've set it up, a character could compensate a low Charisma with a high
Conjuring skill, and vice versa. And, without Conjuring, there's no pool.
One idea might be increasing the number of successes needed to get
services, but that screws up the simplicity a bit by introducing a
non-standard staging. <sigh>
<<And remember, I'm the one recommended some time back killing Magic
Pool>>
<G> How could I forget?
<<(as it's written now) and using straight Sorcery to give spells force
and to supplement Willpower in resisting Drain. That would basically
pull Sorcery down to where Conjuring is now (kinda the opposite of your
approach here). *shrug* Try out your way, but maybe do a few dry-runs
with some fake char's (or the stats of some existing char's) and see how
much it changes them...>>
That's something I'll have to do whatever happens, I just haven't gotten
it done yet.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 20:27:59 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
On Tue, 29 Jul 1997 04:31:13 -0400 Ian White <dernhelm@*****.COM.AU>
writes:
<snip>
<<Heres an idea to help stop chrisma being the unused attribute, you
could have charisma affect the number of contacts a begining character is
able to take. eg char 1-2 one contact, chr 3-4 two contacts, char 5-6
three contacts.
you could also have charisma effect the cost of buying additional
contacts, buddies and the like.
something like a said cost divided by charisma....>>
Nah, overly complicated. If its possible to make Charisma useful (if
possible, to all character types) without adding restrictions, that'd be
great.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 20:27:59 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
On Tue, 29 Jul 1997 03:58:22 -0400 George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM> writes:
<snip>
<<Not to mention that a Conjuring pool makes Conjurer Adepts
significantly more viable.>>
Actually, it makes them more powerful, which is not something I think
they really need (I personally feel that Conjurors and Sorcerors are
about equal, power-wise, especially given the power inherent in some
types of spirits). The only thing I want to do is make the system make
sense (which it currently doesn't, in some respects, IMO)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 20:27:59 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
On Sun, 27 Jul 1997 17:35:34 +0100 Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
writes:
>Why isn't he a mage?
Since the idea was to abuse the system, I decided it would be more
economical to make him a sorceror with the Astral Edge than to make him a
full mage, especially since the big thing gained by status as a full
magician would have been projection and conjuring (in my experience,
neither have been used to any great extent, usually because sorcery is
faster and more easily understood). With access to the astral plane (if
only through astral perception) the character will have full access to
metamagic (excepting metaplanar projection and great form spirits), which
will get him dispelling, quickening, and anchoring. It also gave me
access to a lot more money (didn't use the point system), to buy cyber
and foci and stuff:) Basically, he isn't a mage because I deemed the
disadvantages to be worth the advantages I could get this way.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 20:27:59 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
On Tue, 29 Jul 1997 02:01:07 -0500 "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU> writes:
<<The way I see it, Charisma 'resists' conjuring drain because it is less
fatiguing to argue the spirit into helping you (or intimidate it, or
whatever you figure magicians do) if you're good at it. It takes less
effort, even if the same time, to get the spirit to accept your terms. A
charismatic shaman is aided by spirits 'without a fight', whereas one who
is unsure of himself has to do more convincing. It's not resisting drain
in the same way as willpower and spellcasting, but the mechanic that
represents it can be. :)>>
Yes and no. I think that the act of negotiating with the summoned spirit
is represented by the Summoning test (a Conjuring Skill test under the
current system). That's why I set it up as a Charisma test, with the
Conjuring Skill-based pool, representing how a character is better at
getting more out of the spirit for less with skill and experience (via
the Conjuring Skill). Unfortunately, as you say, it does make it easier
to, well, get more for less.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:40:27 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Physical Mages (was Re: Physad Enhanced Centering)
In-Reply-To: <970729141831_62243124@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> themselves
> > to ful time martial arts study and full time magical research. No matter
> > what is said in its defence I still want to know how common these
> phys/mages
> > are according to canon anyway.
Point 1: Who says that Phys Ads all have to be martial artists?
Point 2: It's NOT full time... they're a jack-of-all-trades, master of
none.
Lady Jestyr
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 18:27:43 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: List T-Shirts
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Faux Pas
So what's the deal?? I don't mean to be a jerk or anything..But I was
kinda hoping to have my T-shirt by GenCon?? I've tried contacting you
directly..But no answer..So??
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:59:35 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: List T-Shirts
Comments: To: GRANITE <granite@**.net>
In-Reply-To: <19970730003125078.AAB470@********.gj.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> Faux Pas
> So what's the deal?? I don't mean to be a jerk or anything..But I was
> kinda hoping to have my T-shirt by GenCon?? I've tried contacting you
> directly..But no answer..So??
<AOL>
Me too!
</AOL>
Not hassling, but the people *I* ordered shirts for are nagging me about
it...
Lady Jestyr
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:05:57 -0400
Reply-To: Philos@****.Net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sir Philos Nex <philos@****.NET>
Organization: Me, Myself and I
Subject: Re: Skill Levels
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Tobias Berghoff wrote:
> BTW, how long have you played these chars. Some friends of mine play the
> same guys since two years and the best they have is a troll with a karma-
> pool of 12...
>
Ummm.. that seems a tad low.. playing one character, on average say one
game session per week, with an average karma pull of 8(for those of us
really active with roleplaying 9) it's more than quite possible to get
12 karmapool in 3 months.. quite possibly sooner than that.
Am I incorrect with this? I've been playing shadowrun since first
edition came out and I have seen characters with 20+ pool, and I haven't
had to play them for years to get that high.
--
Andrew Dominas
AKA Sir Philos Nex
3rd Year Honours Business Administration U of Windsor
Jedi Knight
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Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:17:10 -0400
Reply-To: Philos@****.Net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sir Philos Nex <philos@****.NET>
Organization: Me, Myself and I
Subject: Re: Area Spells
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David Buehrer wrote:
>
> Mike Elkins wrote:
> |
> | Here's another "thought experiment":
> |
> | A magician casts a physical area-of-effect spell
> | at a point in the middle of a wheat field. Does it
> | only effect the wheat stalks towards the front that
> | he can see well, does it effect a nice neat circle
> | in the crop, or does it effect a few dozen or so
> | stalks that happen to be the ones his mind
> | "noticed"? Substitute a crowd in a passing
> | subway car if you think a field of wheat is too
> | boring...
>
> Thanks Mike :p :)
>
> I'm gonna say that the wheat that the magician can't see isn't
> affected by the combat spell (ditto for the people in the crowd).
>
> This is a rule that I've had to read a lot, cuz one of the players in
> my game keeps trying to use Fireball to affect targets around corners
> (We're playing SR, not AD$D! <sigh>). It doesn't matter what's
> blocking your sight.
Ummm.. I always thought that area effect spells didn't have to be
centered on anything and simply slammed everything inside the effect.
That would mean that the unseen wheat would be blasted just as easily as
the seen ones. I know this is true for physical manipulation spells
(Ice sheet and such) where everything in the area of effect bites. I
would think that fireballing someone around the corner should be quite
acceptable as you don't have to target something specifically. If you
*had* to target, then when your friends are all in melee I'd drop a
fireball in the area and would only target those unfriendly pricks :)
But you can't do that (it is kinda similiar to AD&D in that respect)
--
Andrew Dominas
AKA Sir Philos Nex
3rd Year Honours Business Administration U of Windsor
Jedi Knight
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DI++++(+++++)>+++++ D++ G e++
h>+ r+++ y+++++(reset)
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:29:25 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Tue, 29 Jul 1997 20:27:59 -0400 (EDT)"
<19970729.202702.29951.5.lobo1@****.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
You wrote:
> Actually, I agree, I just couldn't find another way to keep both Charisma
> and Conjuring Skill involved and still have it make sense to me. Also, as
> I've set it up, a character could compensate a low Charisma with a high
> Conjuring skill, and vice versa. And, without Conjuring, there's no pool.
> One idea might be increasing the number of successes needed to get
> services, but that screws up the simplicity a bit by introducing a
> non-standard staging. <sigh>
How about this: give them the extra dice (ala the proposed Conjuring Pool) and
just require two successes per service, keeping it in line with 2nd ed Sorcery!
That's simple.
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:39:45 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
On Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:09:08 -0500 Gossamer <kajohnson@*******.TEC.WI.US>
writes:
<snip>
>Other than that, it'd work just like spells.
The problem is that it now makes it easier to summon higher-force
elementals (at first glance, anyway). You'd also want to install some
sort of threshold for the summoning attempt, if you were to use that
idea.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:39:45 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Greetings
On Tue, 29 Jul 1997 13:19:08 -0600 David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
writes:
<snip>
>Here's a freebie toy: the chunky salsa grenade. Take a grenade and
>quicken a mana barrier to it. Set the mana barrier to go off as the
>grenade does. When the grenade goes off the mana barrier springs
>into place around it (at a radius of 3-6 meters, depending on the
>force of the mana barrier). The blast from the grenade will be
>reflected back and forth within the mana barrier reducing everything
>inside to a fine paste.
You mean a normal Barrier, right? A better idea: make a reusable 'magic
grenade', DM with blast effects, a detect person spell link, and a bonus
game effect of reflecting off solid surfaces (like a normal grenade),
plus a barrier linked to go off at the same time. Let her loose and watch
the fun. Then pick up the anchored object and reuse (and the second time,
you don't have to pay karma:)
<sound of idea being tucked away for later use>
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:39:45 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Greetings
On Tue, 29 Jul 1997 11:47:58 PDT Gabriel Sims <grendel_22@*******.COM>
writes:
>Greetings fellow Shadowrunners, (and ThunderCat friends)
Hoi!
>B4 U ask, I'm a newbie (sort of).
Haven't you posted before? Maybe I'm thinking of one the other guys that
goes by Gabriel...
>I've been reading the list for about three weeks now. I guess I
>decided
>it was time to introduce myself.
<shrug> Okay. I'm Canthros:)
>I've got a few questions if you don't mind:
>
>1}==> PhysAd Enhanced Centering: Do you still have to take a special
>skill to center yourself?
Of course. Why wouldn't you?
>2}==> a. I'm thinking about joining the ranks of truley(sp?) sadistic
>and inhumanly evil GM's...What i need to know is exactly what I need
>to
>start a campaign (besides players...). I've got: SR2, Awakenings,
>GrimoreII, SR Companion, Street Sam Catalogue II, ShadowTech,
>Cybertechnology, and the Dunky Secrets book. Is there anything else I
>really need?
VR2, maybe Threats (evil GM toys:) Fields of Fire for more toys, RBB2
maybe when it comes out. Bug City and Target: UCAS (fun with different
places:). VR2 and (maybe) RBB2 are the only ones I'd actually consider
'necessary'.
> b. I'm always looking for new ideas, so any that you might want
>to contribute are OK by me.
Ask Tinner. He's got a surplus:)
Hmmm...evil ideas...
Well, there's the "Evil Twin" plot line (one of my players has
been feeding my need for nasty things to do with his character for the
PBEM I volunteered to run for him and another guy. Worst part: he's doing
it on purpose:)
Screw over the PC's family members. See Tinner or Bull for
details on using this to full effect:)
Recurring enemies - it'll keep them on their toes and keep them
involved.
Conspiracies and Paranoia - Think "Illuminati" and smile <EGMG>
More advice on GMing:
Draw from every source you can, books, movies, short fiction, TV
shows, other people, your pets, whatever. Act it up when you get to the
NPCs, don't be afraid to to overact, so long as it doesn't get ridiculous
(when it isn't supposed to be:)
>3}==> What is the BBB? Where can I get a copy? Thanx
It stands for "Big Black Book" and you've already got a copy - the SR2
main rules.
>4}==> I'm a really big PhysAd fan, so I wouldn't mind if anyone was
>willing to tell me where I could get more info on them.
Well, there's the Physad's Handybook somewhere on Marcucci's Archive. You
take a quick look through the list archive of a few months ago (don't
know how long, exactly) as there've been a couple of Physad powers
bandied about on the list from time to time.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:57:25 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
On Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:29:25 -0500 "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU> writes:
<<How about this: give them the extra dice (ala the proposed Conjuring
Pool) and just require two successes per service, keeping it in line with
2nd ed Sorcery!
That's simple.>>
Umm...Actually, that's what I originally suggested. In that case, the
only problem is that a character doesn't really _need_ Conjuring to
summon a spirit. Hmmm...If I've got agreement on it, as-is, from you, I
suppose I'm just about ready to go, huh? :) Might limit the number of
pool dice available for summoning to Charisma, I'll have to test it out.
This will make Drain resistance, easier though, because you'll have more
dice to throw into that test. Will definately have to do some testing on
this idea before I use it, but I think it just might work. The Drain test
may be the problem, though...
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 22:16:05 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:57:25 -0400 (EDT)"
<19970729.215654.29951.18.lobo1@****.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
You wrote:
> Umm...Actually, that's what I originally suggested. In that case, the
> only problem is that a character doesn't really _need_ Conjuring to
> summon a spirit.
Well, by the same token, how do you 'need' Sorcery to cast spells? It just
gives you a Magic Pool...
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 22:17:29 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
So, basically, you're either astrally active or you're not, and being
alive no longer makes a difference as to astral impassability. I
personally liked having the astrally unmovable objects, like trees,
people, plants, etc and think it added some flavor to the game. Here's
how I see it (as written currently):
Astrally active (dual natured - manifest spirits, active foci,
shapeshifters, dragons, ghouls, etc and astrally perceiving magicians -
or single astral nature - astrally projecting magicians, non-manifest
spirits)
Astrally dormant (single, living physical nature - plants, animals,
natural objects in their natural, unprocessed state)
Astrally intangible (inanimate, man-made/processed objects - buildings,
roads, machines, etc)
As for moving single-natured physical objects with a single-natured
astral being: NO. FAB UV (if it is supposed to do what I think it is
supposed to do) would have to be dual. I'd also suggest a sort of
critical mass for such things. Generally, if you can't see it with the
naked eye, it doesn't have a living aura (which is why viruses and the
like don't impede astral travel).
A single-natured astral object can be affected by a single-natured,
astrally dormant physical object, but cannot be harmed by said object or
being. This would include the guy trapped by the FAB net, hit by an
orichalcum bumper, beat by a FAB bat, etc, etc. If surrounded on all
sides by astrally dormant objects and pressured by said objects, the
astral being would be either squeezed out like 'a watermelon seed' as
another RN denizen suggested or trapped (if surrounded on all sides). If
trapped, the astral being will be kind of squished sideways (I'm not
entirely sure that the astral plane consists of only three (four if you
include a temporal dimension) dimensions). He/she/it won't be able to
move until the area is cleared again, but he won't be occupying exactly
the same space as the object(s) trapping him, either.
Feel free to poke holes in my logic, such as it is...
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 00:14:02 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nathan Ray <Gabrie6967@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Baylon 5
In a message dated 7/29/97 11:36:22 PM, you wrote:
>Hoi, just for all babylonies in the list.
>I have just picked this statement from the official B5 sit.
>http://www.babylon5.com
>
>
>B5 To TNT! Babylon 5 has been renewed for a fifth season, thanks to a deal
>with the TNT Network who will also be running two original TV movies and
>reruns of the series! We apologize for delay in the announcement, but the
>official word is usually after the unofficial announcement.
ooooold news... Thats been out on the aol sight for a month
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 23:19:31 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: List T-Shirts
Comments: To: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
In-Reply-To: <19970730003125078.AAB470@********.gj.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue, 29 Jul 1997, GRANITE wrote:
> Faux Pas
> So what's the deal?? I don't mean to be a jerk or anything..But I was
> kinda hoping to have my T-shirt by GenCon?? I've tried contacting you
> directly..But no answer..So??
>
Hey give him a break, he's getting married in a few weeks. He's got
enough problems ;-)
Regards
-Bill
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 00:24:32 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nathan Ray <Gabrie6967@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
In a message dated 7/29/97 11:55:57 PM, you wrote:
>The way I have always played it is this. For the invisibility spells, they
>only affect normal vision (not Thermo)
NONONONO the rules describe it as bending light (all types IR, UV, and
visable) around the target
hmmm.... I guess I should start leving a name huh? sorry people
Nathan Ray
Aka Gabriel, The Angel of Death
gabrie6967@***.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:24:14 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: [OT] Re: Joker Syndrome
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---Bull wrote:
>
> Speaking of Joker, Batman, Comics,and the Body... Guess which
villian
> they're bringing back for the next Batman Movie? yup... The Joker,
and we
> saw his body at the end of the first movie...;]
Drat! That means I may have to see it then. Always did like the Joker
better than Batman. :o) It better be Nicholson.
Actually, Jack Nicholson was supposed to return in the 2nd movie as
the Joker 'til there was a quibble over $$$. Guess W.B. got flooded
with hate mail for leaving him dead. (The fact that they panned out
from his shattered body with a laughing box just repeating over and
over was supposed to foreshadow that the real Joker wasn't dead...)
At least that's what I heard.
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 00:36:58 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
On Tue, 29 Jul 1997 22:16:05 -0500 "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU> writes:
>You wrote:
>> Umm...Actually, that's what I originally suggested. In that case,
>the
>> only problem is that a character doesn't really _need_ Conjuring to
>> summon a spirit.
>Well, by the same token, how do you 'need' Sorcery to cast spells? It
>just
>gives you a Magic Pool...
Natch. I suppose a GM with an eye toward plausibility would require
someone to have at least a closely related skill (magical or otherwise -
negotiation, perhaps?) and apply a penalty or something (not as great as
simply defaulting, since the character's not actually getting the dice
that would be represented this way...), I could see doing the same for
spellcasting without at least a nominal Sorcery Skill.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 22:36:00 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Re: List T-Shirts
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> > Faux Pas
> > So what's the deal?? I don't mean to be a jerk or anything..But I was
> > kinda hoping to have my T-shirt by GenCon?? I've tried contacting you
> > directly..But no answer..So??
> Hey give him a break, he's getting married in a few weeks. He's got
> enough problems ;-)
Well..not to get snippy..but we have given him a break.. And believe
me I like Faux Pas as much as anyone..He has been a strong and steady
list member for quite some time..But The T-Shirt deal was supposed to
be completed and sent out by the end of may at the latest..as the
order for the shirts should have been called in to the printers by 21
May...At the latest we should have been receiving our T-Shirts by the
middle of June Maybe even the beginin of July for those Over seas..So
don't get me wrong..But I think we have been more than reasonable//
To everyone..This is in no way meant as an attack on Faux Pas..And is
not meant as a let's bash faux Pas message..It is simply a last ditch
attempt to contact him since he has not been answering personal
Email...
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 00:39:06 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> From: Nathan Ray <Gabrie6967@***.COM>
> Date: Wednesday, July 30, 1997 12:24 AM
> In a message dated 7/29/97 11:55:57 PM, you wrote:
> >The way I have always played it is this. For the invisibility spells,
they
> >only affect normal vision (not Thermo)
> NONONONO the rules describe it as bending light (all types IR, UV, and
> visable) around the target
Well, thermographic vision is based on heat, not light, IIRC. Thus,
Invisibility shouldn't work against it. It also shouldn't work against
ultrasound (because that's sound, not light).
> hmmm.... I guess I should start leving a name huh? sorry people
Good Idea. How else do we know who to flame? ;)
> Nathan Ray
> Aka Gabriel, The Angel of Death
> gabrie6967@***.com
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 00:53:23 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Joker Syndrome [ot]
In a message dated 97-07-29 18:38:33 EDT, you write:
> >Speaking of Joker, Batman, Comics,and the Body... Guess which villian
> >they're bringing back for the next Batman Movie? yup... The Joker, and
we
> >saw his body at the end of the first movie...;]
> >
> >Bull
>
> So, who's with me to hunt down Joel Schumaker and shot him in his damn
fool
> head?
Heh. <DISPLAY_Loading-Panther-Assault-Cannon> I'll be right over, wait for
me.
Wolfstar
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 00:56:58 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Opaque glass on the astral? (was Re: [SR3] Area Spells)
In a message dated 97-07-29 18:52:56 EDT, you write:
> > So here is my simple, universal rule: solids are
> > opaque, gases are transparent, liquids are
> > somewhere inbetween. It's due to the
> > cohesiveness of their auras :)
> >
> > Double-Domed Mike
>
> Sounds good. Except that glass is actually a very viscous liquid,
> rather
> than a solid.
<sigh...> Okay, as far as I'm concerned, if it don't make a splash when I put
my hand through it, it isn't liquid. Besides, in 1997 the majority of windows
are made of something other than pure glass. In Shadowrun I'd imagine windows
would be made of Lexan or something. At least high quality plexiglass.
Wolfstar
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 00:59:58 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Baylon 5
In a message dated 97-07-29 18:58:30 EDT, you write:
> Hoi, just for all babylonies in the list.
> I have just picked this statement from the official B5 sit.
> http://www.babylon5.com
>
>
> B5 To TNT! Babylon 5 has been renewed for a fifth season, thanks to a deal
> with the TNT Network who will also be running two original TV movies and
> reruns of the series! We apologize for delay in the announcement, but the
> official word is usually after the unofficial announcement.
Yowza. I've known about that since the beginning of July and they're just
now posting it?!? They'll be running Seasons 1-4 in re-runs (at least) 5 days
a week, with two airings of each season 5 ep per week. Starts in January.
Wolfstar
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 22:06:20 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gabriel Sims <grendel_22@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Cartoons (Was Re: Hallucinogens in SR)
Content-Type: text/plain
Robotech airs daily on the Sci-Fi Channel at about 4:00am.
(at least, it used to...)
===========================================================
An upturned tortise is the nineth most pathetic thing in
the entire multiverse.
An upturned tortise that knows what is going to happen next
is, well, at least up there at number four.
--Small Gods
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 01:17:34 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
In a message dated 97-07-29 20:43:12 EDT, you write:
> It also gave me access to a lot more money (didn't use the point system),
to buy > cyber and foci and stuff:) Basically, he isn't a mage because I
deemed the
> disadvantages to be worth the advantages I could get this way.
This reminds me. Does anyone besides me think it exceptionally odd that in
the point system you can have an adept with a significantly greater number of
starting force points than a full-blown magician can possibly obtain? I've
got a GM who won't use the point based system(says it leads to power-gaming,
but I don't see it), but to my mind, this is a significant flaw in that I can
have quite a few more spells than a more talented magician.
Also, for those of you who (are crazy enough, IMNSHO, to) allow expenditure
of force points for initiating, and since you can buy more force in the point
generation system, what's your response to a physad blowing build points on
force to start as an initiate?
Wolfstar
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 01:32:43 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
In a message dated 97-07-29 21:15:38 EDT, you write:
> Putting successes toward reducing the target number would be a good idea,
> if it weren't for the fact that no other part of the game system
> (excepting Centering, which is metamagic and thus limited) works this
> way, and it's also just a tad bit more complicated. Being able to
> allocate successes from the summoning test as well as the Drain
> resistance test is relatively simple, and is similar to how successes can
> usually be dedicated toward reducing the base time or toward staging up
> damage (or the spell effect) in spellcasting.
Here's an off-the-wall, kooky idea. Since Magic Pool dice can be allocated
as spell defense dice for either you or fellow party members, why not allow
the Conjuring pool the ability to allocate Spirit Defense Dice? Work the same
way, but would only affect attacks by a spirit? Or am I just so far out in
left field that I'm missing the ball?
Wolfstar
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 07:38:52 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <runefo@***.uio.no>
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Organization: The University of Oslo
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage
In-Reply-To: <199707291706.MAA10617@*******.fgi.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> >Do you allow dikoted stuff at CharGen?
>
> This is a powergamed character... but yes, I do allow it often enough. My
> personal characters like to eventually dikote everything possible for
> durability purposes (and I mean everything, not just melee weapons and
> armor... stuff that does nothing for me like firearms and raincoats and
> backpacks, etc).
As long as you remember that Dikote is heat - pressurized diamond.
Whatever it is welded on needs to be able to take a couple of
thousand degrees celsius. (Only for a *very* short duration, though,
so some objects won't be affected.. but firearms, raincoats,
backpacks etc. would *definitely* be affected. (The electronics in
the firearms, if nothing else. The backpack, raincoats etc. would
flash ignite.). As for dikoting armor jackets and such... remember
that dikote is *not* flexible. Dikoting armor jackets etc. which is
basically flexible will possibly stiffen them beyond usefulness,
even if you could dikote them without ruining them.
(See the bottom of the page comments on dikote, also about wearing
off. Diamond shatters real easy, too, btw.).
I would also test if steel weapons (swords, etc) loose their temper.
Few can take much, if any, heat before being ruined as effective
weapons. (Most weapons are probably made of some sort of cerasteel,
though, which would not have that problem).
--
Fade
And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 00:41:52 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Force Points for Initiation (was Re: The Chromium Mage)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:17 AM 7/30/97 -0400, George wrote:
> Also, for those of you who (are crazy enough, IMNSHO, to) allow expenditure
>of force points for initiating, and since you can buy more force in the point
>generation system, what's your response to a physad blowing build points on
>force to start as an initiate?
He'd have to spend a LOT of BPs on force points in order to do so. Since
physads only get (magic) amount of force points to begin with and those are
to be strictly distributed for physad abilities (see pg. 21 SrComp) he'd
have to spend...
9 BPs for level 0
11 (20 total) BPs for level 1
12 (32 total) BPs for level 2
14 (46 total) BPs for level 3
...and so on. I, personally, wouldn't allow anyone to initiate during
chargen unless there were some seriously compelling campaign issues at hand
(e.g. characters are all playing experienced members of a magical order).
Even if they were, the cost of this would be absolutely enormous and, in my
eyes, not worth it. It'd be even less worthwhile at chargen where spell
force limits are in effect.
I appear to be one of the few people playing SR who doesn't fawn over
initiation. Maybe everyone else has seen something that I haven't, but it
costs tons of karma that I feel could be better spent elsewhere. As the
rules are, level 0 is the only level really worth striving to attain.
Unless you have Geasa, then it's worth it to initiate as many times as
needed to remove your Geasa. Add in the "gradual initiation" rules and it
becomes a karma pit of minimal return.
I'm also one of the few who doesn't like foci of any sort. Nice benefits,
but the downside is a killer and the cost is staggering. Why spend all that
karma and money to get a focus when you can spend that karma filling out
your spell repetoir and that money buying you the finest library/lodge
around or more contacts or better equipment? Plus, you don't have that
grounding/thievery thing dogging you around wherever you go.
What are the opposite opinions and the bases for them? I'm not going to
attack anyone on this, I just want to know why people like locks and foci so
much (aside from the obvious) and why initiation is so popular?
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 15:53:50 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Force Points for Initiation (was Re: The Chromium Mage)
In-Reply-To: <199707300541.AAA03879@*******.fgi.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> I appear to be one of the few people playing SR who doesn't fawn over
> initiation. Maybe everyone else has seen something that I haven't, but it
> costs tons of karma that I feel could be better spent elsewhere. As the
> rules are, level 0 is the only level really worth striving to attain.
> Unless you have Geasa, then it's worth it to initiate as many times as
> needed to remove your Geasa. Add in the "gradual initiation" rules and it
> becomes a karma pit of minimal return.
I tend to get my characters to Grade 1 or 2, just for the sake of the
shielding dice (if it's even in character for them to initiate).
Admittedly, we use a house rule on shielding dice, since we felt they
were too powerful as written. The shielding dice still add to your
attribute to resist the spell (makes DMs really useful!) but you don't
get to add your WHOLE DAMNED MAGIC POOL to the shielding dice.
I'm vehemently against any sort of gradual initiation rules, because it
ENCOURAGES people to initiate more than they would otherwise.
Lady Jestyr
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 01:59:00 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Baylon 5
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:59 AM 7/30/97 -0400, George Metz wrote these timeless words:
> Yowza. I've known about that since the beginning of July and they're just
>now posting it?!? They'll be running Seasons 1-4 in re-runs (at least) 5 days
>a week, with two airings of each season 5 ep per week. Starts in January.
>
I knew TNT would be running it (Weren't Spike and Dvixen bitching about
this news a month ago?), but I didn;t know they'd be showing reruns of the
first few season.
This is good news to a fan that has only gotten to see season 4 and the end
of season 3...;]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 01:59:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Joker Syndrome
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:24 PM 7/29/97 -0700, Loki wrote these timeless words:
>---Bull wrote:
>>
>> Speaking of Joker, Batman, Comics,and the Body... Guess which
>villian
>> they're bringing back for the next Batman Movie? yup... The Joker,
>and we
>> saw his body at the end of the first movie...;]
>
>Drat! That means I may have to see it then. Always did like the Joker
>better than Batman. :o) It better be Nicholson.
>
>Actually, Jack Nicholson was supposed to return in the 2nd movie as
>the Joker 'til there was a quibble over $$$. Guess W.B. got flooded
>with hate mail for leaving him dead. (The fact that they panned out
>from his shattered body with a laughing box just repeating over and
>over was supposed to foreshadow that the real Joker wasn't dead...)
>
>At least that's what I heard.
>
At this point it's simply an unofficial rumour that Jack has agreed yto
sign on to do the Joker, providing the script is done well. Of course, I
haven;t liked the Batman movies since they got away from the Classic Gothic
feel of 1920's Chicago and went with this weird Neon and crap that they've
had since the second movie (due to the set designer of the original dying:( ).
But, this is the same type of rumour that listed Arnold as Mr. Freeze a
year and a half ago, so... i'm inclined to believe it...;]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 23:23:44 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Joker Syndrome
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---Bull wrote:
>
> At this point it's simply an unofficial rumour that Jack has agreed
yto
> sign on to do the Joker, providing the script is done well. Of
course, I
> haven;t liked the Batman movies since they got away from the Classic
Gothic
> feel of 1920's Chicago and went with this weird Neon and crap that
they've
> had since the second movie (due to the set designer of the original
dying:( ).
Same feelings here. The first was great, 'course it had Jack Nicholson
as the Joker so it couldn't go wrong IMHO. :o) The second was OK,
once I got over my feelings with them actually "killing" off Joker.
The third was borderline pathetic, and then I only saw 20 minutes of
the fourth while waiting for Speed 2 at the drive-in and I refused to
watch more based on principal (it really sucked).
One thing I want to know is, how secretive is Bruce Wayne anyways. We
have three people who've been able to find the Bat Cave now (Robin,
Riddler and Batgirl), and he's got three women running around knowing
his true identity (Kim Bassinger from the first one, Catwoman and the
shrink from the third). <shakes head in shame>
Who knows, maybe Jack can redeem things. <shrug>
If they recreate "A Death in the Family" and have him kill off Chris
O'Donnell as Robin, it would definitely be a good start. <EG>
> But, this is the same type of rumour that listed Arnold as Mr.
Freeze a
> year and a half ago, so... i'm inclined to believe it...;]
One can hope, Jack back as Joker would at least be a good.."we're
sorry for screwing up what was a good idea with Batman in the
beginning."
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 04:53:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ian White <dernhelm@*****.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: [OT] Cartoons (Was Re: Hallucinogens in SR)
In-Reply-To: <tcppop3.383860@***.hydra.com.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 15:06 29/07/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Robotech airs daily on the Sci-Fi Channel at about 4:00am.
>(at least, it used to...)
>
>===========================================================
>An upturned tortise is the nineth most pathetic thing in
>the entire multiverse.
>An upturned tortise that knows what is going to happen next
>is, well, at least up there at number four.
>--Small Gods
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
You lot are mean!!! taslking about these wonderfull shows that some poor
(like me) can't watch. boo hoo :(
Caught and trapped like a fox in the forest
Or a murderer in prison.
Yet what crime had I committed?
To be human in this world?
-excerpt from "Your favourite Drama"
by E. A. Bockman
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:17:32 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Area Spells
In-Reply-To: <3637.199707291301@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Spike said on 14:01/29 Jul 97...
> |Is Bleu cheese Blue?
>
> I thought it was BLEUGH!
No, that was British chips, remember? :)
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:17:32 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
In-Reply-To: <970729093238_475615947@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Steve Kenson said on 9:32/29 Jul 97...
> FWIW, he's my proposed plan for Conjuring in SR3: Keep all of the conjuring
> rules the same, but switch to Magic rating as the measure for Drain, just
> like spells. That way you don't get the double whammy of high Charisma
> allowing both the summoning of more powerful spirits and making it easier to
> resist Drain. And initiates get a bonus on Conjuring for having a higher
> Magic attribute. And being a heavily cybered Conjuring Adept suddenly REALLY
> sucks : )
As it all should be, IMHO.
> Also, IMHO, there already is a "Conjuring Pool" of sorts in SR2. Your
> Conjuring Skill dice can be split up between the Summoning Test and the Drain
> Test in any way desired, just like Magic Pool for spells.
Erm... Steve, where did you get this idea? Some upcoming book you haven't
told us about? SRII doesn't mention it in the conjuring rules, and neither
could I find it in the Grimoire or Awakenings. Maybe I just didn't look
where I should, but I've never heard of being able to split Conjuring dice
like this.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 05:31:28 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ian White <dernhelm@*****.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Greetings
In-Reply-To: <tcppop3.383604@***.hydra.com.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 05:17 29/07/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>Watch Warlock or Catpeople to get some evil ideas ;)
>
>Just my dime.
>
>
What are these two shows?? what country are you in??
Dernhelm
Caught and trapped like a fox in the forest
Or a murderer in prison.
Yet what crime had I committed?
To be human in this world?
-excerpt from "Your favourite Drama"
by E. A. Bockman
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:11:17 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: NETBOOKS (location, location, location...)
In-Reply-To: <199707291934.MAA27896@***.hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Gabriel Sims said on 12:34/29 Jul 97...
> Does anyone know where I might find any of the net books?
All over the net, but a few places to start are
http://www.interware.it/shadowrun/
http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html
http://nspace.cts.com/pub/Role-Playing/Shadowrun/
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:11:17 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Joker Syndrome (Was - Re: Karma & Characters)
In-Reply-To: <199707291807.OAA13682@***.ncweb.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Steven A. Tinner said on 14:13/29 Jul 97...
> Actually, the incident Bull's referring to is known in our group as the
> Perianwyr Syndrome.
> Never assume that just because you hit the dragon with a SAM that said
> dragon is dead! ;-)
Isn't that one of the first rules of comics and soap operas? No body = not
dead...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:11:18 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
In-Reply-To: <970730002431_1659135985@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Nathan Ray said on 0:24/30 Jul 97...
> NONONONO the rules describe it as bending light (all types IR, UV, and
> visable) around the target
NONONONO (annoying, isn't it?) look it up in SRII, page 156: the subject
"becomes invisible to normal light. Thermogrpahic vision can still detect
body heat" which means that anyone using thermographic vision (and, by
extension of the "to normal light" clause) some kind of UV vision can
still detect the target of the invisibility spell.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:11:17 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: My New Campaign
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970729092616.007b3d90@********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Caric said on 9:26/29 Jul 97...
> Well limiting the edges and flaws will help, but one of the best ways to
> lower the power level of the game is to limit the availability and such of
> gear they can start with. This works with cyberware as well as other gear.
Another thing to keep in mind about gear is the legality: all legal and
permit-required stuff should be available (if they have the cash for the
item plus permit) but heavily restricting illegal items, as well as those
requiring a security permit, will likely drastically reduce the power
level of the game.
You may want to enforce this differently for different items. Technically,
a knife is illegal and no permit is available for it; that doesn't mean I
would restrict any PC from owning a knife. I would say no if they wanted
hand grenade, though.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:11:17 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
In-Reply-To: <19970729.202701.29951.0.lobo1@****.com>
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John E Pederson said on 20:27/29 Jul 97...
> >Apart from that, it looks good, not to mention usable, to me.
>
> Wow! A vote of confidence:)
It's very close to the way I was thinking about rewriting those same rules
a few months ago. In the end I decided to only replace Charisma by Magic
for determining Drain, though.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:11:17 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Greetings
In-Reply-To: <199707291847.LAA24766@***.hotmail.com>
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Gabriel Sims said on 11:47/29 Jul 97...
> B4 U ask, I'm a newbie (sort of).
Welcome to the list (oh, and try not to use the spelling techniques taught
at the Prince School of Writing -- not everyone here speaks English as a
first language).
> I've got a few questions if you don't mind:
Not unless they're about Woodc[censored] we don't :)
> 1}==> PhysAd Enhanced Centering: Do you still have to take a special
> skill to center yourself?
Unless it specifically states otherwise (which it doesn't), you have to
have a skill to use for centering. Of course, this could be the same skill
you want to augment: taking Unarmed Combat as a centering skill, and then
using it to reduce the penalties for Unarmed Combat may be allowed by the
GM, but then again it may not.
> 2}==> a. I'm thinking about joining the ranks of truley(sp?) sadistic
> and inhumanly evil GM's...What i need to know is exactly what I need to
> start a campaign (besides players...). I've got: SR2, Awakenings,
> GrimoreII, SR Companion, Street Sam Catalogue II, ShadowTech,
> Cybertechnology, and the Dunky Secrets book. Is there anything else I
> really need?
Not really, unless you have decker or rigger PCs; for them, Virtual
Realities 2.0 and the Rigger Black Book are good stuff. Especially VR 2.0
is a must if you plan on doing any matrix runs at all, the RBB is handy
for giving more choice and the option of customizing vehicles. However,
you may want to wait about 3 or 4 months to buy the RBB, since version 2
is supposed to be out by then.
> b. I'm always looking for new ideas, so any that you might want
> to contribute are OK by me.
Ask Tinner if you aspire to be an Evil GM(tm) :)
> 3}==> What is the BBB? Where can I get a copy? Thanx
It stands for Big Black Book -- the SR2 main rules, since the background
color of the cover is black. SR1 was very dark blue, and so was known as
the Blue Book.
> 4}==> I'm a really big PhysAd fan, so I wouldn't mind if anyone was
> willing to tell me where I could get more info on them.
Try the Really Complete But Still Highly Unofficial Physad Handybook (I
hope I got the title right) by Brett-whose-last-name-I-forgot-(sorry!),
which I believe is available from Paolo's SR archive.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:11:17 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Area Spells
In-Reply-To: <199707291717.NAA07916@****.provide.net>
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Justin Pinnow said on 13:15/29 Jul 97...
> IMO, the +2 TN modifier should be applied for talking, because talking is a
> purely physical activity. However, it's not applied because you are
> looking at the person you are talking to funny, but rather because you have
> a harder time putting the words and sentences together, because you are
> primarily using your astral senses, not your physical ones.
You can hear real (non-recorded) sounds in astral space, so you'd be able
to hear yourself talking just fine. That way, it's not going to be more
difficult to hold a conversation, IMHO...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:11:17 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: List T-Shirts
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970730105851.2945H-100000@*******.dialix.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Lady Jestyr said on 10:59/30 Jul 97...
> > Faux Pas
> > So what's the deal?? I don't mean to be a jerk or anything..But I was
> > kinda hoping to have my T-shirt by GenCon?? I've tried contacting you
> > directly..But no answer..So??
>
> Not hassling, but the people *I* ordered shirts for are nagging me about
> it...
Back up a few ticks... I used to think the whole shirt business went
through the list, but this year it seems I'm wrong... Sure, we had a few
"Hey, how about a new shirt?" things about half a year ago, but nothing
much after that. At which time I did respond, but I never did get any
answer except when I said on the list that I hadn't, and even then I
didn't get my questions answered...
I don't like this at all. I've got all three of the previous shirts, and I
would like to keep my little collection complete, but this feels like it's
going behind my back :(
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:40:04 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Opaque glass on the astral? (was Re: [SR3] Area Spells)
In-Reply-To: <199707292228.PAA11261@***.aa.net> from "Chuck Stevens" at
Jul
29, 97 03:27:09 pm
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|> So here is my simple, universal rule: solids are
|> opaque, gases are transparent, liquids are
|> somewhere inbetween. It's due to the
|> cohesiveness of their auras :)
|>
|> Double-Domed Mike
|
| Sounds good. Except that glass is actually a very viscous liquid,
| rather than a solid.
So THAT'S why glass is transparent.....
:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:41:17 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] Baylon 5
In-Reply-To: <yam7150.2706.137588888@****.amigaworld.com> from "Barbie"
at Jul
30, 97 00:30:54 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|
|Hoi, just for all babylonies in the list.
|I have just picked this statement from the official B5 sit.
|http://www.babylon5.com
|
|
|B5 To TNT! Babylon 5 has been renewed for a fifth season, thanks to a deal
|with the TNT Network who will also be running two original TV movies and
|reruns of the series! We apologize for delay in the announcement, but the
|official word is usually after the unofficial announcement.
Oh, that news has been bouncing aroung the Channel 4 web forum for a couple
of weeks.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 06:45:27 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
> Date: Wednesday, July 30, 1997 6:17 AM
> Steve Kenson said on 9:32/29 Jul 97...
> > FWIW, he's my proposed plan for Conjuring in SR3: Keep all of the
conjuring
> > rules the same, but switch to Magic rating as the measure for Drain,
just
> > like spells. That way you don't get the double whammy of high Charisma
> > allowing both the summoning of more powerful spirits and making it
easier to
> > resist Drain. And initiates get a bonus on Conjuring for having a
higher
> > Magic attribute. And being a heavily cybered Conjuring Adept suddenly
REALLY
> > sucks : )
> As it all should be, IMHO.
How about an easier way of doing something similar: Keep the system the
same, but add a one-line rule stating that you cannot summon a spirit who's
force exceeds your magic rating. Simple, neh? :) Alternatively, you
could modify the Drain Code for summoning a spirit who's force is higher
than your magic rating to reflect increased difficulty, but I think that
Drain for Conjuring is pretty severe as is and prefer the first suggestion
in this paragraph. I really like the Conjuring system as it stands. Oh
wait, I've said that already. ;)
> > Also, IMHO, there already is a "Conjuring Pool" of sorts in SR2. Your
> > Conjuring Skill dice can be split up between the Summoning Test and the
Drain
> > Test in any way desired, just like Magic Pool for spells.
> Erm... Steve, where did you get this idea? Some upcoming book you haven't
> told us about? SRII doesn't mention it in the conjuring rules, and
neither
> could I find it in the Grimoire or Awakenings. Maybe I just didn't look
> where I should, but I've never heard of being able to split Conjuring
dice
> like this.
Yeah, Steve, what have you been smoking? ;) You use Charisma to resist
Drain, not Conjuring skill. And WHY anyone would want to split up their
Conjuring skill is beyond me...I mean, you won't get any successes if you
are going for a spirit that is such a high level that you feel you need to
use some of your skill dice to resist Drain.
> --
> Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 06:51:31 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Area Spells
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> From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
> Date: Wednesday, July 30, 1997 7:11 AM
> Justin Pinnow said on 13:15/29 Jul 97...
> > IMO, the +2 TN modifier should be applied for talking, because talking
is a
> > purely physical activity. However, it's not applied because you are
> > looking at the person you are talking to funny, but rather because you
have
> > a harder time putting the words and sentences together, because you are
> > primarily using your astral senses, not your physical ones.
> You can hear real (non-recorded) sounds in astral space, so you'd be able
> to hear yourself talking just fine. That way, it's not going to be more
> difficult to hold a conversation, IMHO...
You can only hear those sounds, IIRC, when you make yourself physically
present from the astral (I just *hate* saying "manifest" in this
case...it's so confusing). When purely astral, you only feel the emotions
of the sound, not the sound itself.
Besides, it's not just you having a hard time concentrating on focusing
your thoughts into sentences (which is part of the +2 TN modifier in this
case), but it's also being able to understand what's being said to you.
Holding a conversation is a purely physical activity, and thus should fall
under the +2 TN penalty, like all other mundane activities. It makes sense
to me that since your senses are in the astral at the moment (at least
primarily), that ANYTHING you do that is purely physical would be affected,
including talking. Besides, it's just cool to have to have TN modifiers
for holding a conversation sometimes. ;)
> --
> Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 06:53:36 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Opaque glass on the astral? (was Re: [SR3] Area Spells)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
> Date: Wednesday, July 30, 1997 6:40 AM
> | Sounds good. Except that glass is actually a very viscous
liquid,
> | rather than a solid.
> So THAT'S why glass is transparent.....
Die!
> :)
:)
> Andrew Halliwell
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 06:47:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: James A Riegel <riegelja@*****.MSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Karma & Characters(Was Skill Levels)
In-Reply-To: <970729035831_-2009517472@*******.mail.aol.com> from "George
Metz" at Jul 29, 97 03:58:32 am
Content-Type: text/plain
>
> What does anyone think of a proper "retirement level" based on Karma Pool?
> When does a runner say, "Enough is enough, let's get a SIN and move on with
> our lives"? Anyone?
> Wolfstar
Hmmmm.......I'd have to say that once your characters get pools of around 30 or
so it's starting to lose its challenge... Unless you start dumping blood magic
on them, or bugs or toxics...or poor slots packed with explosives and a
tracking system....the list goes on. Seriously though after 300 karma being
added to improve the character it gets a little crazy.
--
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:58:00 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] Baylon 5
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970730014334.2327d2cc@*****.com> from "Bull" at
Jul 30,
97 01:59:00 am
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|I knew TNT would be running it (Weren't Spike and Dvixen bitching about
|this news a month ago?), but I didn;t know they'd be showing reruns of the
|first few season.
Probably... Season 4 only started here last week....
Episode 2 TONIGHT!!!! yipeeeeee....
|This is good news to a fan that has only gotten to see season 4 and the end
|of season 3...;]
Well you should have started earlier then....
:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 06:59:46 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: James A Riegel <riegelja@*****.MSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
In-Reply-To: <199707290949.LAA26170@*****.xs4all.nl> from "Gurth" at Jul
29,
97 11:50:51 am
Content-Type: text/plain
>
> John E Pederson said on 23:03/28 Jul 97...
> I don't like Drain being based on Charisma either, for the simple reason
> that the Magic rating is almost never used in conjuring-type operations.
> Only for banishing does it come into play, and it's not too hard to simply
> avoid that altogether if you want to. This is especially true for
> conjuring adepts.
Hmm.....as far as the magic rating goes, I view it as a basic raw potential for
magic...how much can you channel through your body before the drain starts
becoming physical....Conjuring as a charisma based event makes sense too me for
the same reasons a couple o others have already said (social interaction with
astral being). I haven't had anything but not so hot experiences toying with
the conjuring rules. Heres a thought I'm planning to for making magic rating
mean more.....allow 'on the fly' spell casting at up to 1/2 force with an
increase in drain level and damage. Will post results after I've had players
try it a few times.
Hmm....This is my second post now (assuming this is making it to the list and
not individuals) so I prolly ought to say "hey all". Sorry if things sometimes
have a day or say lag in thread before I respond....I work wayyy to much.
*grin*
JR
--
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:00:44 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Area Spells
In-Reply-To: <199707300915.LAA12506@*****.xs4all.nl> from "Gurth" at Jul
30,
97 11:17:32 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|
|Spike said on 14:01/29 Jul 97...
|
|> |Is Bleu cheese Blue?
|>
|> I thought it was BLEUGH!
|
|No, that was British chips, remember? :)
SOUTHERN British chips....
Remember...
:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:03:32 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Greetings
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19970730190758.0cbfb67c@*****.com.au> from "Ian
White"
at Jul 30, 97 05:31:28 am
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|
|At 05:17 29/07/97 -0500, you wrote:
|>
|>
|>Watch Warlock or Catpeople to get some evil ideas ;)
|>
|>Just my dime.
|>
|>
|What are these two shows?? what country are you in??
Warlock's a pretty naff Horror flick about some Warlock who escapes into the
future from the 17th century, closely followed by a witch-hunter (the
goddie)....
He had a deadly alergy to salt, and wanted to find the book that held the
name of God, so he could say it backwards and end the universe....
Or something equally silly....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:05:44 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
In-Reply-To: <199707301009.MAA18795@*****.xs4all.nl> from "Gurth" at Jul
30,
97 12:11:18 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|Nathan Ray said on 0:24/30 Jul 97...
|
|> NONONONO the rules describe it as bending light (all types IR, UV, and
|> visable) around the target
|
|NONONONO (annoying, isn't it?) look it up in SRII, page 156: the subject
|"becomes invisible to normal light. Thermogrpahic vision can still detect
|body heat" which means that anyone using thermographic vision (and, by
|extension of the "to normal light" clause) some kind of UV vision can
|still detect the target of the invisibility spell.
Actually, I think the reason Thermographic works is because it's not looking
for reflected light (which the invisibility spell bends) but emitted light,
as in body heat.....
I'd say UV shouldn't work.... Unless he's wearing something florescent which
might emit light when exposed....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 07:06:08 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: James A Riegel <riegelja@*****.MSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
In-Reply-To: <199707290949.LAA26183@*****.xs4all.nl> from "Gurth" at Jul
29,
97 11:50:51 am
Content-Type: text/plain
>
> I wouldn't use this; skill levels in SR aren't limited in such a way, and
> it doesn't make sense anyway to say "No, you can't learn to be a master
> conjurer because you're not charismatic enough."
>
Hmmm.....there's always the possibility of trying this with _all_ skills....say
limit skills to a general rating of 1x the base attribute (what it defaults
to best). You could take concentrations to 1.5x base and specializations to 2x
base with training. High skills are one of the biggest gamefun killers when
Munchkins are involved. Hehehe...that's what gamemasters are for
tho...Ok...make an etiqutte(corp) 6 test. Munchkin:"Can I default from um,
um, um....firearms?" All the dice but evil evil TN's.
--
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 07:09:31 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Karma & Characters(Was Skill Levels)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> From: James A Riegel <riegelja@*****.MSU.EDU>
> Date: Wednesday, July 30, 1997 6:47 AM
> > What does anyone think of a proper "retirement level" based on Karma
Pool?
> > When does a runner say, "Enough is enough, let's get a SIN and move on
with
> > our lives"? Anyone?
> > Wolfstar
> Hmmmm.......I'd have to say that once your characters get pools of around
30 or
> so it's starting to lose its challenge... Unless you start dumping blood
magic
> on them, or bugs or toxics...or poor slots packed with explosives and a
> tracking system....the list goes on. Seriously though after 300 karma
being
> added to improve the character it gets a little crazy.
Yeah. It certainly does. A house rule I use in order to keep the
characters playable longer is to eliminate the Team Karma Pool, start the
individual players' Karma Pools at 1, and don't let them improve (except as
an award for truly substantial roleplaying), and to allow Good Karma to be
"burned" to do the same thing that a Karma Pool can do (i.e. permanently
spend 1 Good Karma point to reroll all failures in a success test; or
permanently spend 3 Good Karma points to achieve 3 additional successes in
that success test, etc.) This way, Good Karma is often "lost" to saving
your butt, instead of being used to improve your skills. Often times, you
will end up burning almost as much as you spend on improving your PC.
Thus, your character is playable twice as long as a character with equal
Good Karma put completely into improving the PC. And the character is
playable even longer than that when comparing him/her/it to a PC with a
Karma Pool of any note.
This house rule also gives the FEEL of a truly dark universe, where your
experience isn't always able to be saved up for a higher skill. Sometimes,
it's just more important to save your butt when it's on the line, pushing
that skill acquisition further back....
> -- <No Signature>
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 07:16:30 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: James A Riegel <riegelja@*****.MSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Area Spells
In-Reply-To: <970729093243_785887179@*******.mail.aol.com> from "Steve
Kenson"
at Jul 29, 97 09:34:05 am
Content-Type: text/plain
> COMBAT spells do not (IMHO) produce any kind of physical "blast". An area
> combat spell works just like a single-target combat spell, except it affects
> all of the valid targets in the area. A Fireball, in the current system,
> isn't a massive ball of flames, more like an area-effect spontaneous
> combustion festival; all of the valid targets in the Area are cooked from the
> inside out.
>
> So, in your example above, the one dude who comes around the corner is toast,
> but his buddies, a few steps behind him and out of line of sight, are safe.
> Moral: don't throw an area Combat Spell if you want to hit targets you can't
> see. It just doesn't work.
>
Hmmm....my evil thought for the day....mage has gesture geas....He whips off an
area effect combat spell and is inside the radius....*ZAP* "But i never got
hit before" says the player. That's cause your own aura wasn't extended into
your line of sight....Ok so it's cruel but essentially correct by the rules.
JR
--
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:10:18 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bruce <gyro@********.CO.ZA>
Subject: Re: Physical Mages (was Re: Physad Enhanced Centering)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:40 AM 30-07-97 +1000, you (Lady J) wrote:
>Point 1: Who says that Phys Ads all have to be martial artists?
>
>Point 2: It's NOT full time... they're a jack-of-all-trades, master of
>none.
>
>Lady Jestyr
>
Reply 1 : PHYSAD implies some time of physical endeavour. That requires
almost constant training, practice and general time investment. And besides
how many
physad dancers or athletes become shadowrunners anyhow?
Reply 2 : yet they can throw down with the best of them both physically and
magically?
Repeat original Question : Just how common are Physical Mages both in games
being played by listmembers and according to canon????
Thanks
BRUCE
Arcanum Majoris - Big Magic! :)
Free your mind and the rest will follow!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 07:28:49 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: James A Riegel <riegelja@*****.MSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage
In-Reply-To: <199707291706.MAA10617@*******.fgi.net> from "TopCat" at Jul
29,
97 12:06:08 pm
Content-Type: text/plain
>
> >Do you allow dikoted stuff at CharGen?
> >STOP!! Dikoted heavy milspec?!? What is this? The Mr. Mega-Munchkin-
> >Contest? I don't know any GM who would allow this (and I know quite a lot)
> >This guy's a nice example how to make a killing-maschine, but no char.
>
> Nothing munchkin about it, it's all well within the rules. In fact, there's
> not a single optional rule in effect on this character. I'm sure there are
> plenty of GMs out there who would allow this character. I'm sure there are
> plenty here on this list who have and would. I, though, would not. As for
> making him a character, all it takes is some background...
Just my $.02. The essence of munchkin is staying in the rules to the letter
but skewing normally excepted perception away.....cha 1 characters don't have
ettiquette(media)12......Quickness 2 characters don't have Athletics 12 (who
would want Quickness 2 anyway?). The point is does it make sense from the
roleplaying point of view....I tend to allow players to skew things slightly
and then play against on their weaknesses to bring roleplaying into effect
instead of dblhandful rollplaying. And yes....I would allow dikoted heavy mil
spec. And yes.....you would have a lot of trouble from the particular group
you 'borrowed' it from. (Unless you had a _damn_ clean run and used a tailor
spell to changed its appearance)
JR
--
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 07:38:18 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: James A Riegel <riegelja@*****.MSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Greetings
In-Reply-To: <199707291919.NAA26327@******> from "David Buehrer" at Jul
29,
97 01:19:08 pm
Content-Type: text/plain
> Here's a freebie toy: the chunky salsa grenade. Take a grenade and
> quicken a mana barrier to it. Set the mana barrier to go off as the
> grenade does. When the grenade goes off the mana barrier springs
> into place around it (at a radius of 3-6 meters, depending on the
> force of the mana barrier). The blast from the grenade will be
> reflected back and forth within the mana barrier reducing everything
> inside to a fine paste.
>
Use a physical barrier....that will trap the blast. A mana barrier would just
keep the body parts inside.....although that would be the absolute coolest
splatter effect known to man...
> Here's a freebie idea: contacts can be a pain in the ass for a
> character. If that armorer that's the only source of ammunition for
> the character is in debt to the mob and asks the character for
> help... <EGMG>
Another good one is when the characters take the flaw of Enemy
(SRComp.--another good addition to BBB)....Have the enemy begin harrasing the
players early on in the campaign....determine which contacts the characters
rely on most....make one of them the enemy. Cruel? Yes. Worth it? Yes. The
looks on the faces of your players when they realise the nice man who loaned
them the bug scanner they needed (but didn't quite find all the bugs) is the
same guy who bugged em in the first place....heheheh
JR
--
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 07:46:38 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: James A Riegel <riegelja@*****.MSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
In-Reply-To: <E0wtLFl-00060V-00@*****.nettrek.net.au> from "Ray &
Tamara" at
Jul 30, 97 08:47:28 am
Content-Type: text/plain
> That brings me to the new spell, disregard. This works on all forms of
> detection, Thermo, ultra sound, normal vision whatever. The target remains
> undetectable if the viewer fails the perception test. However, if the
> viewer makes the test, then the target is fully visible, as if there was no
> spell cast on him at all.
>
Opening the door you see the Red Samurai.
I can take him...
Him? nono...them.
Them?
Yes...them. All of them.
Uh....I don my cloak of Indifference and leave quietly.
JR
--
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 07:33:08 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Catpeople
In-Reply-To: <199707300934.DAA26865@******> from "Ian White" at Jul 30,
97 05:31:28 am
Content-Type: text
Ian White wrote:
|
| >Watch Warlock or Catpeople to get some evil ideas ;)
| >
| What are these two shows?? what country are you in??
Catpeople is a movie about... There's this race of human/black panther
shape changers. But their shapechange ability is kind of funky. If they
have sex with a human they change into a panther a short time later. The
only way they can change back to human form is to kill someone. If they
have sex with eachother they don't change. Hows that for a weird premise?
The main character is a young woman/catperson who was somehow raised by
humans and doesn't know she has this ability (still a virgin). A male
catperson who's looking for a mate has found her. She has a boyfriend
that's caught up in the whole affair.
Anyway, the movie is actually pretty well filmed and directed, and it has
an awesome soundtrack by David Bowie.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 07:35:45 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: CSG
In-Reply-To: <199707300142.TAA11623@******> from "John E Pederson" at Jul
29,
97 09:39:45 pm
Content-Type: text
John E Pederson wrote:
|
| On Tue, 29 Jul 1997 13:19:08 -0600 David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
| writes:
| <snip>
| >Here's a freebie toy: the chunky salsa grenade. Take a grenade and
[snip]
| You mean a normal Barrier, right?
Okay, okay, I blew that part of it :( It was someone else's idea about 9
months ago and I couldn't remember all of the specifics.
| A better idea: make a reusable 'magic
| grenade', DM with blast effects, a detect person spell link, and a bonus
| game effect of reflecting off solid surfaces (like a normal grenade),
| plus a barrier linked to go off at the same time. Let her loose and watch
| the fun. Then pick up the anchored object and reuse (and the second time,
| you don't have to pay karma:)
|
| <sound of idea being tucked away for later use>
<sound of idea being tucked away for later use>
Don't touch Canthros! He's pure evil! (GM that is ;)
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 07:40:30 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: CSG
In-Reply-To: <199707292352.RAA08660@******> from "Barbie" at Jul 30,
97 00:17:18 am
Content-Type: text
Barbie wrote:
|
| At 29-Jul-97 wrote David Buehrer:
|
| >Here's a freebie toy: the chunky salsa grenade. Take a grenade and
|
| MANA barrier?
<grump>
| All in all a evil idea but not very practical and an karmahole without end.
| Or you are using karma as ammo?
It's an EGM idea. Make a villian that feels that the karma is worth
the cost. If nothing else it would make a great death trap. Capture
the characters, tie them up, have the villian put the grenade on the
floor next to them and tell them with great detail how they are going
to die in five minutes :)
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 08:52:23 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Faux Pas (Thomas)" <thomas@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: List T-Shirts
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:11 PM 7/30/97 +0100, Gurth whispered:
>Lady Jestyr said on 10:59/30 Jul 97...
>> > So what's the deal?? I don't mean to be a jerk or anything..But I was
>> > kinda hoping to have my T-shirt by GenCon?? I've tried contacting you
>> > directly..But no answer..So??
>> Not hassling, but the people *I* ordered shirts for are nagging me about
>> it...
>I don't like this at all.
My apologies to you all. I thought I had been responding to the e-mails
about what's going on with the shirts as I've gotten them. I'm still
trying to get them out and sent off asap. I am sorry for the delays in
getting the shirts done and out to everyone who ordered.
-Thomas Deeny
Your Guide to Shadowrun -- http://shadowrun.miningco.com -- updated every
Wednesday!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 16:40:28 MEZ-1MESZ
Reply-To: sandman@****.uni-oldenburg.de
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: HAUPT ULRICH FB08 <sandman@****.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Organization: University Of Oldenburg Comp.Center
Subject: Re: Invisibility spells - physical ones
> .. Invisibility (and other apperence changing spells) is all
> about belief... if you don't believe it.. then it can't affect you...
> thats what the TN means to me... the more successes.. the harder it
> is to disbelieve....
The >believe it or not< theory is nice for the standard version of
invisibility. But how do you explain the physical version. It affacts
cameras and then video cameras with image storing (tapes or discs or
chips) ,too. I mean if you look at those tapes later do you have to
roll against believing or not again? Is there magic on the tape ???
I don't think so! In that case there must be something more physical
!
Sandman
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:43:31 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
Greetings!!!
The point based system is a very lose system that the GM should tailor to
his/her campaign. Come to think of it, the whole companion is like that....
Personally, I will not let my players select their edges and flaws. They earn
them during the game sessions or character background creation. (I had one
too many who tried to argue with me as they attempted to powergame...)
I do not allow force points to be spent on initiation, as it can unbalance
the game.
Of course my campaign is more role playing intensive, and not every street
punk is born with wired 2 or 3 in his body.
-Bandit
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:48:46 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Collins" <scollins@**.UML.EDU>
Subject: Re: [OT] Baylon 5
In-Reply-To: <970730005958_819745044@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 30 Jul 1997, George Metz wrote:
->In a message dated 97-07-29 18:58:30 EDT, you write:
->
->> Hoi, just for all babylonies in the list.
->> I have just picked this statement from the official B5 sit.
->> http://www.babylon5.com
->>
->>
->> B5 To TNT! Babylon 5 has been renewed for a fifth season, thanks to a deal
->> with the TNT Network who will also be running two original TV movies and
->> reruns of the series! We apologize for delay in the announcement, but the
->> official word is usually after the unofficial announcement.
->
-> Yowza. I've known about that since the beginning of July and they're just
->now posting it?!? They'll be running Seasons 1-4 in re-runs (at least) 5 days
->a week, with two airings of each season 5 ep per week. Starts in January.
->
-> Wolfstar
->
Well to add something people possably didn't know Claudia Christian
will not be returning for season 5. This was her choice and not
Strazynski's. According to my souirces he isn't going to kill Ivanova
off but he will write her out of the story line and have someone else
do the things she needed to do in the final season.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:50:53 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Apple Core (was: Re: The Chromium Mage)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 05:52 AM 7/29/97 -0400, Bull wrote:
>At 10:41 PM 7/26/97 +0100, Spike wrote these timeless words:
>
>> an apple core....
>>
>Say no more...
>
Who's your friend?
Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/
The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton
Gencon count down: 8 days
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 06:34:30 -0700
Reply-To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> How about this: give them the extra dice (ala the proposed Conjuring Pool) and
> just require two successes per service, keeping it in line with 2nd ed Sorcery!
> That's simple.
> losthalo
Strangely enough, this was an idea which I proposed some time ago (and
also got bashed for it). I know exactly how Canthros feels...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:16:11 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Adepts and Astral Projection
David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG> wrote:
>So all physical beings have three aspects, a physical form, an aura
>(which is present in astral space), and an astral form which is
>normally present on the physical plane. Some beings are able to
>project their astral forms (through astral perception) into the
>astral plane, and some beings can also seperate their astral forms
>(astral projection/travel).
Correct.
>Is it possible for a physical being to seperate it's astral form and project
it into the >physical plane (astral travel with travelling to the astral)?
No. An astral form must exist in astral space by definition. An astral form
can become visible to characterrs on the physical plane, but it remains in
astral space.
>The astral forms of dual natured beings are present on the astral plane.
Correct.
>Astral beings normally do not have a physical form (but do they have
>an aura?). Do astral beings which have Manifestation have a physical
>form which resides on the astral plane, which they can project into
>the physical plane? Or does Manifestation grant an astral being with
>the ability to create a physical form?
EVERYTHING has an aura. Astral beings do not normally have a physical form,
but can create one out of the stuff of the astral plane when they Manifest.
>Is an astral being able to project it's astral form onto the physical
>(that form of manifestation that's mentioned in a few of the books
>and adventures)?
Astral beings can make their astral form visible to the physical world, but
they are only phantoms, still immaterial and unable to touch or affect
anything physical. To affect the physical world, the spirit must Manifest.
Steve
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:16:23 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
<I'm going to reply to this thread in general rather than specific posts>
Generally speaking, the main reason I like removing the special status of
living things on the astral is it's simple and clear-cut. Something is either
present in astral space as a solid (and affectable) object or it is not. The
current system creates too many special-case rules and too much metaphysical
hair-splitting, IMHO.
As for the suggestion of adding the True Elements (ala Earthdawn) to
Shadowrun, probably not. I'd tend to say the mana gradient isn't high enough
to sustain such manifestations at this time. It is also my opinion that SR
orichalcum isn't quite the same as ED orichalcum. The ED stuff is a composite
of the True Elements while the SR stuff is a magical alloy of Gold, Silver,
Copper and Mercury (symbolic of the four elements). Orichalcum is "magical"
but it is not automatically astrally active. As I mentioned, I could see
Enchanting rituals to create astrally active materials for use in building
astral defenses.
On astral security: Having astrally active security is also more consistent,
IMHO. If you have dual-natured ivy protecting your building, the GM can treat
it just like a Ward: assign it a Rating and away you go. Unlike the dormant,
immovable ivy of SR2, this barrier can be killed in astral combat, but it
will fight back like any other barrier.
On grounding: As for being able to ground through enchanted marbles or
similar drek, you can do that now, if you really want to, but keep the
following things in mind:
1) Enchanted items generally have to be in contact with their user to be
astrally active.
2) Enchanting takes time and karma
3) Under the revised Spell Targeting system I propose you need two qualities
to target a spell: line of sight and astral symmetry. So your chummer tosses
your enchanted marble into a room full of mundanes and toss a powerball at
it. You're astral projecting. The marble is astrally active and you can see
it, so it's a valid target. The powerball slams into it. You can also see
(assense) the people in the room, but they are NOT valid targets, so you
cannot target them. Net effect: a marble flys into the room, hits the floor
and goes "PIFT!" turning into dust and everybody wonders what the point of it
was.
Ah, but what about a damaging manipulation spell you say? Since DMs ground
out at the location of the caster's physical body and are then projected
towards the target, they can't be cast while astral projecting. You have to
be in your physical body to channel the effects of the spell. Still no
effect.
So, in short, mundanes are effectively immune to grounding under this system,
which makes ground far LESS effective than it is now. About the worst you
could do is cast something like Ignite on a flammable focus and set it
aflame, hoping it would affect the mundane. If the focus is something like a
coat or a hat, you might get somewhere. But do you really want to take
Serious to Deadly Physical Drain for it? Not a bargain most magicians are
going to go for, IMHO.
Steve
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:17:00 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG> wrote:
>The existing rules work really well as long as you don't worry about FAB.
But I do worry about FAB, and so, I suspect, do many people, given the
discussions I've seen on this list and elsewhere.
>That [making FAB astrally active] makes FAB really impractical: suddenly,
the mage
>that was entrapped by something he couldn't deal with can now cast a trivial
spell to >destroy it and leave.
That's my whole problem with FAB: the character can't do thing one about it.
As both a GM and a player I dislike situations that are: "OK, this happens,
but there's absolutely nothing you can do about it, so don't even try." An
astral form trapped on all sides by FAB is doom and can't do ANYTHING about
it. It's like a perfect death-trap. As a player I would find that incredible
unfair and frustrating.
I'm not saying FAB should be totally worthless, only that there should be a
chance, no matter how small for the trapped character to DO something about
it. Under the new system, FAB would be rated just like a Ward (which is
essentially what it is, an artificial, biological astral wall). So if you
want to make the FAB in a corp facility tough, give it a Rating of 10 or so
and it'll kick ass on the astral. Make it Rating 15 and almost nobody will be
able to get through it. But now the trapped character has the OPTION of
fighting the FAB in astral combat to get out. It might be a very tough fight,
even a near-suicidal one, but I would prefer to have the option rather than
being told I had none.
>Physical security guards wandering through clouds of FAB are
>suddenly vulnerable to area effect spells cast from the astral.
Under the Spell Targeting system I propose (see previous post), an astral
form could ground a spell through the FAB cloud to kill it, but the mundane
guards are completely safe because they are not valid targets and cannot be
affected by any spells cast from the astral. Theoretically, the spellcaster
might be able to transform the FAB into something dangerous or toxic, but for
the drain that would be involved (up in the Serious-Deadly range) why take
the risk?
Steve
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 16:18:05 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] Baylon 5
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.96.970730104617.3606A-100000@*******.cs.uml.edu> from
"Steven A. Collins" at Jul 30, 97 10:48:46 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|Well to add something people possably didn't know Claudia Christian
|will not be returning for season 5. This was her choice and not
|Strazynski's. According to my souirces he isn't going to kill Ivanova
|off but he will write her out of the story line and have someone else
|do the things she needed to do in the final season.
Nope... I knew that as well.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 07:18:28 -0700
Reply-To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> This reminds me. Does anyone besides me think it exceptionally odd that in
> the point system you can have an adept with a significantly greater number of
> starting force points than a full-blown magician can possibly obtain? I've
> got a GM who won't use the point based system(says it leads to power-gaming,
> but I don't see it), but to my mind, this is a significant flaw in that I can
> have quite a few more spells than a more talented magician.
And that, perhaps, is the key. A sorceror adept can't do much *except*
cast spells. The time a full mage would spend learning how to conduct a
conjuring ritual is spent... learning spells. The time spent learning
the basics of enchantment are spent.... learning spells. And of course,
the time the full mage would normally spend to learn spells is *also*
spent learning spells.
Everyone seeks to enhance their strengths; the sorceror adepts are no
different.
Now, if you rule that the Conjuror adept *still* gets 30 Force, then he
can go out and buy a nice pile of foci and bond them all... though for
what absolute end I'm not sure, but it is a loophole in the system.
Speaking of Conjuring, neither Enchanters nor Astral Adepts rely on
their Magic Rating either, a situation which could be improved upon.
I'd suggest making the "Reduce Time" test a function of Magic Rating.
Not sure how it can be incorporated into Astral Adeptitude, since
Assensing is pretty straightforward. Maybe have it apply a reduction in
target number (Astral Adepts *should* be better at Assensing than anyone
else.)
Now, I do have a problem with the adept who goes out and buys a megayen
of foci and bonds them all. The problem can usually solved by several
NPC mages and a few ground spells....
> Also, for those of you who (are crazy enough, IMNSHO, to) allow expenditure
> of force points for initiating, and since you can buy more force in the point
> generation system, what's your response to a physad blowing build points on
> force to start as an initiate?
How many out there allow initiation for starting characters? Not many.
Physads, incidentally, don't get the base 30 Force in the build system,
and even allowing for the non-Edge purchase of them (Q: Why have the
somewhat-optional Edge when a somewhat-optional rule allows for it
anyway?) means they have to blow a considerable amount of points on
Initiating for a marginal increase in ability. The more experienced
players won't; the beginners usually end up with a dead character.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:47:58 -0500
Reply-To: swordman@******.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Swordman <swordman@******.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Joker Syndrome
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Bull wrote:
>I
> haven;t liked the Batman movies since they got away from the Classic Gothic
> feel of 1920's Chicago and went with this weird Neon and crap that they've
> had since the second movie (due to the set designer of the original dying:( ).
Well between that and Joel taking over and making the movies a more
COMIC book like feel, As far as I'm conserned the latest Batman movies
as having nothing to do with the Tim Burton Batman films. There Were Two
Tim Burton Batman movies and now possibly three batman moives.
Every director will bring thier vision to the set, Joel likes the
neo-post modern look, Tim liked the morbid, cold, gothic look... I
imagin if if John Woo did a Batman film it would be dark, most of the
action would be shot in slow motion and more guns would be fired in the
two hours than in most ary training camps.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:49:10 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
In-Reply-To: <199707301518.JAA06762@******> from "Steve Kenson" at Jul
30,
97 11:16:23 am
Content-Type: text
Steve Kenson wrote:
|
| On grounding: As for being able to ground through enchanted marbles or
| similar drek, you can do that now, if you really want to, but keep the
| following things in mind:
[snip]
If you use perception and cover modifiers for spellcasting, don't
forget about the size of the target. You're modifier to hit a marble
is what, +6? That's really going to put a crimp in the effectiveness
of grounding that spell. Ditto for attempts to ground out through
spell locks and most foci.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:48:17 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
On Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:57:25 EDT John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM> writes:
>Umm...Actually, that's what I originally suggested. In that case, the
>only problem is that a character doesn't really _need_ Conjuring to
>summon a spirit. Hmmm...If I've got agreement on it, as-is, from you,
>I suppose I'm just about ready to go, huh? :) Might limit the number
>of pool dice available for summoning to Charisma, I'll have to test it
>out. This will make Drain resistance, easier though, because you'll
>have more dice to throw into that test. Will definately have to do
>some testing on this idea before I use it, but I think it just might
>work. The Drain test may be the problem, though...
...Or you could just put a cap on the size of the spirit relative to the
Conjuring skill (no force above you're skill level).
~Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:48:17 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage
On Wed, 30 Jul 1997 07:38:52 +0000 Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO> writes:
>> >Do you allow dikoted stuff at CharGen?
>As long as you remember that Dikote is heat - pressurized diamond.
>Whatever it is welded on needs to be able to take a couple of
>thousand degrees celsius. (Only for a *very* short duration, though,
>so some objects won't be affected.. but firearms, raincoats,
>backpacks etc. would *definitely* be affected. (The electronics in
>the firearms, if nothing else. The backpack, raincoats etc. would
>flash ignite.). As for dikoting armor jackets and such... remember
>that dikote is *not* flexible. Dikoting armor jackets etc. which is
>basically flexible will possibly stiffen them beyond usefulness,
>even if you could dikote them without ruining them.
Also remember that you wouldn't Dikote the ENTIRE cloth jacket... just
the ballistic inserts...
Given that they use melee weapons in the examples it's safe to assume
that things of that nature are able to withstand the temps involved (by
that I mean, things of that grade of metal or what ever). And finally, I
don't think you'd just hand over your entire Ares Predator with all it's
electronic toys attached and they just pop it in the Dikoting microwave
and when it goes DING they hand you back a nice shiny, albeit slightly
useless, weapon... it seems likely that they'd break the weapon down and
only dikote those parts that COULD wistand the heat... hm?
Just use some common sence when deciding what can and can't be dikoted
(I'd say no to a raincoat too..) and the rest is up to you and your
houserules as to how and when it wears.
~Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:56:41 -0500
Reply-To: swordman@******.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Swordman <swordman@******.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Joker Syndrome
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Loki wrote:
>
> Who knows, maybe Jack can redeem things. <shrug>
>
> One can hope, Jack back as Joker would at least be a good.."we're
> sorry for screwing up what was a good idea with Batman in the
> beginning."
It realy didn't have much to do with Jack, all the ideas were that of
Tim Burton, a dark gothic master mind, even some of the casting calls.
He selected Keaton as Batman just based on his eyes, no one thought it
could be pulled off but he did great.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:05:12 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Adepts and Astral Projection
In-Reply-To: <199707301517.JAA06692@******> from "Steve Kenson" at Jul
30,
97 11:16:11 am
Content-Type: text
Steve Kenson wrote:
|
| >Is it possible for a physical being to seperate it's astral form and project
| it into the >physical plane (astral travel with travelling to the astral)?
|
| No. An astral form must exist in astral space by definition. An astral form
| can become visible to characterrs on the physical plane, but it remains in
| astral space.
Cool.
| EVERYTHING has an aura. Astral beings do not normally have a physical form,
| but can create one out of the stuff of the astral plane when they Manifest.
Gotcha. It also explains the ITN ability (since they have a body that's
formed from "magic".
| >Is an astral being able to project it's astral form onto the physical
| >(that form of manifestation that's mentioned in a few of the books
| >and adventures)?
|
| Astral beings can make their astral form visible to the physical world, but
| they are only phantoms, still immaterial and unable to touch or affect
| anything physical. To affect the physical world, the spirit must Manifest.
The one thing I'm having trouble with is that you feel (I think :)
that auras are only present on the astral plane. I think it'd be a
whole lot easier to say that for physical objects (beings/things)
their auras are on the physical plane, and they cast a shadow on the
astral plane. (In the case of a living being their aura casts light
onto the astral plane.) The auras of astral objects reside on the
astral plane. If an object is dual natured it could be either way.
This, for me, goes a long way toward explaining some things: why an
astral being can't interact with a purely physical object (no astral
presence). Why so many species died out when the magic ebbed. They
where dual natured beings whose aura was on the astral, and when the
gap between the astral and the physical became to great they died.
Some beings that were strong enough were able to maintain a teneable
link. Some beings stored up enough magic to keep that link open.
And some beings (dragons) travelled to a metaplane or something.
Anyway, all IMHO :)
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:11:36 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Invisibility spells - physical ones
Comments: To: sandman@****.uni-oldenburg.de
In a message dated 97-07-30 10:43:14 EDT, sandman@****.uni-oldenburg.de
(HAUPT ULRICH FB08) writes:
> The >believe it or not< theory is nice for the standard version of
> invisibility. But how do you explain the physical version. It affacts
> cameras and then video cameras with image storing (tapes or discs or
> chips) ,too. I mean if you look at those tapes later do you have to
> roll against believing or not again? Is there magic on the tape ???
> I don't think so! In that case there must be something more physical
> !
Actually, yes, you do (HI GUYS< I'M BACK!!!). However, like Security
Sheathes for Matrix Systems in VR2, and the ever building sheathe for
"breaking the Mind alteration" in Awakenings, eventually your character can
have a chance to discern the probable flaws in a any given image.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:18:45 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Area Spells
On Wed, 30 Jul 1997 07:16:30 -0400 James A Riegel
<riegelja@*****.MSU.EDU> writes:
<<Hmmm....my evil thought for the day....mage has gesture geas....He
whips off an area effect combat spell and is inside the radius....*ZAP*
"But i never got hit before" says the player. That's cause your own
aura wasn't extended into your line of sight....Ok so it's cruel but
essentially correct by the rules.>>
His aura shouldn't have to be extended into LOS. Since its _his_ aura,
anyspell he casts is automatically synched with it. Read your Grimoire
closely.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:18:45 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
On Wed, 30 Jul 1997 01:17:34 -0400 George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM> writes:
<snip>
<<This reminds me. Does anyone besides me think it exceptionally odd that
in the point system you can have an adept with a significantly greater
number of starting force points than a full-blown magician can possibly
obtain? I've got a GM who won't use the point based system(says it leads
to power-gaming, but I don't see it), but to my mind, this is a
significant flaw in that I can have quite a few more spells than a more
talented magician.>>
How is this a problem? I can have my Sorceror adept who is identical to
your mage in all respects except one: he's adept, not a full magician.
Now, I've got five more build points (plus however many points were spent
on conjuring, enchanting and psychometry) I can spend to put into skills
or spells, representing the fact that I a) only needed to know Magical
Theory and Sorcery and b) thus had lots of time left over to improve on
those areas that I was good at. Check the quote on pg18 of the Grimoire.
Completely fictional (hey, it's a game for Pete's sake:) but also totally
consistent. A Sorceror is going to a bit better at sorcery than the
equivalent magician, a Conjuror better at conjuring, an astral adept
can't be beat on the astral plane, and an enchanter is the best
talismonger you're ever gonna find. You're not going to beat an
elementalist or shamanic adept in his area of expertise, either. That's
the advantage of an adept: he's got a narrower focus, but he's better
within that focus area.
<<Also, for those of you who (are crazy enough, IMNSHO, to) allow
expenditure of force points for initiating, and since you can buy more
force in the point generation system, what's your response to a physad
blowing build points on force to start as an initiate?>>
If he really *wants* to spend all those force points on it, and he can
justify it <EGMG>, then sure, I'll let him. But, hey, I once stated that
if one of my players could ever come up with a background that convinced
me of why his PC Great Dragon was running the shadows, I'd sure as heck
let him do it. Back on the physad: sure, if he wants to spend points he'd
probably get more out of with a weapon focus, he can go right ahead. It
just means that something else will suffer...
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:20:28 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Greetings
In a message dated 97-07-30 11:10:23 EDT, barbie@**********.COM (Barbie)
writes:
Response at end of these two...
>
> >Here's a freebie toy: the chunky salsa grenade. Take a grenade and
> >quicken a mana barrier to it. Set the mana barrier to go off as the
> >grenade does. When the grenade goes off the mana barrier springs
> >into place around it (at a radius of 3-6 meters, depending on the
> >force of the mana barrier). The blast from the grenade will be
> >reflected back and forth within the mana barrier reducing everything
> >inside to a fine paste.
>
> MANA barrier? Even with a phisical barrier you need a force 14 or higher
> to pervent the barrier from been torn apart by the blast.
> And quicken will not work if you throw the granade, it would only travell
> as far as the radius and than the barrier will hit your body :-]
> Use anchoring with a detect explosions as trigger.
> All in all a evil idea but not very practical and an karmahole without
end.
> Or you are using karma as ammo?
> --
> Barbie
First off, as I'm certain someone has pointed out, Mana Barrier won't work
with Grenades at all.
Secondly, Barrier is at half rating against Grenades and Explosions (IIRC),
that is why Blast Barrier came into existence later on down the road.
Third, The "Backblast" effect would have some effect before the Barrier(s)
were defeated or overwhelmed by the building effect. I just had this done
the other day actually, on the Sunday Home Game.
Two Terminator Style Robot Sentries (HEY, has anyone seen the new robot they
got to walk on its own) were coming up behind the group. Two character, mine
and one of the mercs, made a plan. Put a Force Barrier (Telekinetic
Variation of Barrier spell) behind them, prime for casting second barrier,
merc fired two HE/IPE's at area behind the robots (hitting the wall
effectively), primed second barrier comes up at the end of shot fired (a bit
tedial on the timing, but hey's its a game) IN FRONT of the robots. Corridor
is 4 meters wide. Space between barriers is about 4 meters. Blasts go off,
barriers were fairly good (Force Barriers use the old rules for Barrier,
successes achieved equal barrier rating, Centering is good, yes). Twin
Explosions build backblast near-simultaneously, end effect, two sets of 20+D
from two grenades (we stage up the damage per bounce as well as the power
here).
It was cool.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:21:34 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
In a message dated 97-07-30 11:18:03 EDT, TalonMail@***.COM (Steve Kenson)
writes:
>
> On astral security: Having astrally active security is also more
consistent,
> IMHO. If you have dual-natured ivy protecting your building, the GM can
> treat
> it just like a Ward: assign it a Rating and away you go. Unlike the
dormant,
> immovable ivy of SR2, this barrier can be killed in astral combat, but it
> will fight back like any other barrier.
>
I had to enter into this one. You can't engage the "ivy" in Astral Combat,
as the living signature isn't "active" on the astral level. Yeah, this is
part of that Metaphysical Hairsplitting that was mentioned in the part I
snipped (sorry), but there is a BIG difference between active astral presence
and passive astral presence. If you start doing the "dual nature" options
for living beings, then Astral Combat becomes INCREDIBLY dangerous.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:28:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
In a message dated 97-07-30 11:18:03 EDT, TalonMail@***.COM (Steve Kenson)
writes:
>
> 1) Enchanted items generally have to be in contact with their user to be
> astrally active.
Not necessarily. They have to be "turned on", if their are foci-like, than
they can be carried off. As long as the magician maintains astral perception
upon the link, it is going. This is one of the loopholes on astral
maintenance.
> 2) Enchanting takes time and karma
Yeah true, but if you get someone who has Enchanting as a Totem bonus, then a
Quest of Power (Enchantment) becomes optional.
> 3) Under the revised Spell Targeting system I propose you need two
qualities
> to target a spell: line of sight and astral symmetry. So your chummer
tosses
> your enchanted marble into a room full of mundanes and toss a powerball at
> it. You're astral projecting. The marble is astrally active and you can
see
> it, so it's a valid target. The powerball slams into it. You can also see
> (assense) the people in the room, but they are NOT valid targets, so you
> cannot target them. Net effect: a marble flys into the room, hits the
floor
> and goes "PIFT!" turning into dust and everybody wonders what the point of
> it
> was.
Sorry Steve, at this point I have to wonder "Why" myself. I agree with
everyone that magic is powerful, but it is the "little quirks" like this one
that make things unpredictable and help keep the paranoia stage going as
well.
> Ah, but what about a damaging manipulation spell you say? Since DMs ground
> out at the location of the caster's physical body and are then projected
> towards the target, they can't be cast while astral projecting. You have
to
> be in your physical body to channel the effects of the spell. Still no
> effect.
I think I just like the limits that Combat Magic (because of it's split
second nature) can't be performed in Ritual Magic, and Manipulations (even
damaging ones) can be. The split second becomes a split and a half, as the
mage channels power to him first, then to target, versus to target directly.
> So, in short, mundanes are effectively immune to grounding under this
system,
That at least wound remain nice, but what about the dual nature/astral
presence for Astral Combat thing? (what did I miss out on?)
>
> which makes ground far LESS effective than it is now. About the worst you
> could do is cast something like Ignite on a flammable focus and set it
> aflame, hoping it would affect the mundane. If the focus is something like
a
> coat or a hat, you might get somewhere. But do you really want to take
> Serious to Deadly Physical Drain for it? Not a bargain most magicians are
> going to go for, IMHO.
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:31:21 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
Comments: To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
In a message dated 97-07-30 11:20:08 EDT, mbreton@**.netcom.com (Matb)
writes:
>
> > How about this: give them the extra dice (ala the proposed Conjuring
Pool)
> and
> > just require two successes per service, keeping it in line with 2nd ed
> Sorcery!
> > That's simple.
>
> > losthalo
>
> Strangely enough, this was an idea which I proposed some time ago (and
> also got bashed for it). I know exactly how Canthros feels...
>
>
On the topic of Charisma and Conjuring (sorry, I lost the other thread by
accident), the Charisma vs. Drain for spirits has to do with the "Self Image"
concept. Invoking a Spirit or Elemental means influencing other beings.
They reflect their perceptions of the caster by the way the caster's "self
image" reflects upon their own presence. That Charisma is their bridge into
the world sort of.
And the idea of a conjuring pool is a good thing, at the very least for the
Hermetics. Sorry, I love Shamans, but the idea of a Conjuring Pool in the
hands of Spider or Owl just sends chills up and down my back.
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:38:55 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Physical Mages (was Re: Physad Enhanced Centering)
In a message dated 97-07-30 11:26:24 EDT, gyro@********.CO.ZA (Bruce) writes:
>
> I would have to say that a phys/mage is vastly different to a burnout both
> in powers and the way that these are aquired. A phys/mage aquires all his
> physical and magical powers at chargen. The burnout has to suffer for his
> speed so to speak.
>
> If I were to find out about a magical talent that I possessed I would
follow
> the one that suited me. I dont know many people that could apply
themselves
> to ful time martial arts study and full time magical research. No matter
> what is said in its defence I still want to know how common these
phys/mages
> are according to canon anyway.
>
Uhm, guys....it does mention in the Awakenings under the Physical Mage that
any points NOT spent on regular (aka, spellcasting/conjuring) magic must be
applied the geasa rules as well. Sounds like the same as a Burnout to me.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:39:23 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
In a message dated 97-07-30 11:23:59 EDT, TalonMail@***.COM (Steve Kenson)
writes:
> >that was entrapped by something he couldn't deal with can now cast a
> trivial
> spell to >destroy it and leave.
>
> That's my whole problem with FAB: the character can't do thing one about
it.
> As both a GM and a player I dislike situations that are: "OK, this
happens,
> but there's absolutely nothing you can do about it, so don't even try." An
> astral form trapped on all sides by FAB is doom and can't do ANYTHING
about
> it. It's like a perfect death-trap. As a player I would find that
incredible
> unfair and frustrating.
Actually, that has happened to me once while playing Binder, my favechar.
However, by accident, I found a way out. I was going to do a Quest of True
Aura, trying to find any loopholes in the fab walls/cloud. In so doing, I
noticed the FAB had no metaplanar signature. Way out became very simple. A
Quest of True Aura on myself (hence, my body), and when I came back to body,
I was out of the confinement (flipped out the mage).
> I'm not saying FAB should be totally worthless, only that there should be
a
> chance, no matter how small for the trapped character to DO something
about
> it. Under the new system, FAB would be rated just like a Ward (which is
> essentially what it is, an artificial, biological astral wall). So if you
> want to make the FAB in a corp facility tough, give it a Rating of 10 or
so
> and it'll kick ass on the astral. Make it Rating 15 and almost nobody will
> be
> able to get through it. But now the trapped character has the OPTION of
> fighting the FAB in astral combat to get out. It might be a very tough
fight,
>
> even a near-suicidal one, but I would prefer to have the option rather
than
> being told I had none.
And that option I have given above. For the non-initiated, how about this
for an option. Or rather, two options.
If you have an elemental or spirit, have it support your "astral weight" and
go to the home metaplanes of said being for a service. Then come back as an
additional service. Can't be done with watchers, but hey, it's a way.
If not, try "yanking your way" back down your own Astral Connection. It
could be treated as a "barrier vs. strength" roll. Living things have a
"per
se" barrier rating, if a way to oppose them can be found. If anything, give
it (the FAB wall) the barrier rating equal to the security system rating of
the place. Things can slip through the smallest cracks.
> >Physical security guards wandering through clouds of FAB are
> >suddenly vulnerable to area effect spells cast from the astral.
THAT is entirely to munchkin provoking.
> Under the Spell Targeting system I propose (see previous post), an astral
> form could ground a spell through the FAB cloud to kill it, but the
mundane
> guards are completely safe because they are not valid targets and cannot
be
> affected by any spells cast from the astral. Theoretically, the
spellcaster
> might be able to transform the FAB into something dangerous or toxic, but
> for
> the drain that would be involved (up in the Serious-Deadly range) why take
> the risk?
> Steve
My end statement is this Steve. Try and look for more options. Never give
up and go for what you know. Try and learn something new. The experience
alone has it's merits. Changing the rules for Astral Signature/Presence just
because of FAB is entirely out of proportion.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:49:56 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> From: J. Keith Henry <Ereskanti@***.COM>
> Date: Wednesday, July 30, 1997 12:31 PM
> On the topic of Charisma and Conjuring (sorry, I lost the other thread by
> accident), the Charisma vs. Drain for spirits has to do with the "Self
Image"
> concept. Invoking a Spirit or Elemental means influencing other beings.
> They reflect their perceptions of the caster by the way the caster's
"self
> image" reflects upon their own presence. That Charisma is their bridge
into
> the world sort of.
This ties into what I stated in a previous post. :)
> And the idea of a conjuring pool is a good thing, at the very least for
the
> Hermetics. Sorry, I love Shamans, but the idea of a Conjuring Pool in
the
> hands of Spider or Owl just sends chills up and down my back.
Well, I think that a Conjuring Pool in ANYONE's hands would scare me.
Spirits are very powerful. They are relatively cheap help (even for
Hermetics). It's expensive to hire a bodyguard to hang around, but you can
conjure up a decent force elemental and have him at your beck and call for
a few thousand NY. I don't think that being able to summon up more
powerful Spirits is necessary. Nor do I think that getting more successes
is necessary.
> -Keith
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:03:21 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Adepts and Astral Projection -Reply
David Buehrer about how he would like to see it
that auras exist in the physical plane but cast
light in the astral.
My reply:
I don't like that nearly as much. Auras are
completely indetectable by science, and having
them exist only astrally explains that neatly, in
addition to why only some people can see them.
As for being able to pass through them: consider
them astral "smells", rather than astral objects.
Double-Domed Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:07:16 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
In a message dated 97-07-30 07:06:49 EDT, you write:
> Hmmm.....there's always the possibility of trying this with _all_
skills....
> say
> limit skills to a general rating of 1x the base attribute (what it
defaults
> to best). You could take concentrations to 1.5x base and specializations
to
> 2x
> base with training. High skills are one of the biggest gamefun killers
when
> Munchkins are involved. Hehehe...that's what gamemasters are for
> tho...Ok...make an etiqutte(corp) 6 test. Munchkin:"Can I default from
um,
>
> um, um....firearms?" All the dice but evil evil TN's.
Ewww, the hideousness of that thought. Why? Because everyone will max their
attributes with Karma, then max their skills, concentrations, then
specializations, and since those caps are in place, become perfect specimens
of their species. All that's left is Immortality. I can see it now, everyone
notices a proliferation of Troll martial artists who can roll 32 dice for
their Unarmed Combat/Martial Arts/Tae Kwon Do skills. Not a good idea.
Wolfstar
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:10:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: You ATE the bad guy?!?! (Was - Re: Karma & Characters)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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> Thats why I ate sometimes the villian :-)
> Not the whole just the brain.
> Ok I have done this just once<smirk> he realy pissed me of
> by holding me as a genuia pig for over six months :((
Dear God! You ATE somone?!?!?!
Are you playing a shapechanger by any chance?
I'd love to hear the entire story behind this ...
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:13:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage
In a message dated 97-07-30 08:23:03 EDT, you write:
> Just my $.02. The essence of munchkin is staying in the rules to the
> letter
> but skewing normally excepted perception away.....cha 1 characters don't
> have
> ettiquette(media)12......Quickness 2 characters don't have Athletics 12
(who
> would want Quickness 2 anyway?).
Who'd want Quickness 2? Anyone who starts the game with Dikoted Heavy
MilSpec Armor, that's who. =)
Wolfstar
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:16:44 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Greetings
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> B4 U ask, I'm a newbie (sort of).
It shows! ;-)
Before some of the listmember.nasties jump on you about it, if you alerady
haven't, make sure you read the ShadowRN FAQ.
It's fairly clear about what goes on here, and it also makes a breif
mention about not using "cute" phrases like B4 U ask, and CU L8R, it's
annoying to some folks.
> 2}==> a. I'm thinking about joining the ranks of truley(sp?) sadistic
> and inhumanly evil GM's...What i need to know is exactly what I need to
> start a campaign (besides players...). I've got: SR2, Awakenings,
> GrimoreII, SR Companion, Street Sam Catalogue II, ShadowTech,
> Cybertechnology, and the Dunky Secrets book. Is there anything else I
> really need?
Just a few things, an imagination, players who are willing to work with you
and trust you to tell a good story, and an understanding that there are NO
limits on what is right and wrong in RPG's!
Free your mind, and your players will suffer! ;-)
> b. I'm always looking for new ideas, so any that you might want
> to contribute are OK by me.
Just keep your mailbox open, I'm sure you'll start picking stuff up from
here sooner or later ...
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:19:05 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: James A Riegel <riegelja@*****.MSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
In-Reply-To: <970730130645_-55007342@*******.mail.aol.com> from "George
Metz"
at Jul 30, 97 01:07:16 pm
Content-Type: text/plain
> Ewww, the hideousness of that thought. Why? Because everyone will max their
> attributes with Karma, then max their skills, concentrations, then
> specializations, and since those caps are in place, become perfect specimens
> of their species. All that's left is Immortality. I can see it now, everyone
> notices a proliferation of Troll martial artists who can roll 32 dice for
> their Unarmed Combat/Martial Arts/Tae Kwon Do skills. Not a good idea.
>
> Wolfstar
Sorry....forgot to mention a house rule...I only allow players to raise stats
just so far with Karma....which actually puts a limit on earlier thought a
little more harsh than I wanted....But, to reply to your point people can just
as happily roll 32 dice for unarmed combat/martart/Tae Kwon Do skill using the
current rules and still end up spending less over all karma because you didn't
need to max the stat in the first place.
JR
--
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:25:20 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Auras
Content-Type: text
Having gotten involved in the current physical/astral discussion with
Steve I just realized that I'm not to clear on exactly what an Aura
is.
Is an aura a "physical" component of an object? Or is a
representative quality?
Can an aura directly affect something, or be directly affected? Can
it ever be targeted? Is it something.. oh, for lack of a better
word, real?
Or, is it like... (geez, I shoulda paid attention in philosophy
class) a projected image? Like going to see a movie. The images on
the screen aren't "real" (I coulda said "reel", but I held back :)
The images are a reflection of the light that's hitting the screen.
If an aura is "real" then it causes a host of problems for me.
If an aura is a projected image (and I don't even want to know how it
works) then many of my problems are solved. Is aura is immaterial
and cannot affect, or be affected by, either physical or astral
entities? Is it merely a reflection of an object that appears in
astral space?
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:29:44 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Force Points for Initiation (was Re: The Chromium Mage)
In a message dated 97-07-30 08:36:27 EDT, you write:
> He'd have to spend a LOT of BPs on force points in order to do so. Since
> physads only get (magic) amount of force points to begin with and those
are
> to be strictly distributed for physad abilities (see pg. 21 SrComp) he'd
> have to spend...
>
> 9 BPs for level 0
There you go. That's where I'd stop, because once you have Metamagic, the
rest is icing. Granted, it's NICE icing, but still...
> ...and so on. I, personally, wouldn't allow anyone to initiate during
> chargen unless there were some seriously compelling campaign issues at
hand
> (e.g. characters are all playing experienced members of a magical order).
Oooohhh, neat concept! I'll have to think about that one...
> Even if they were, the cost of this would be absolutely enormous and, in
my
> eyes, not worth it. It'd be even less worthwhile at chargen where spell
> force limits are in effect.
The trick with that is primarily just reaching Grade 0, since it gives you
all the metamagic. Anchored spells are the way to create enchanted missile
weapons (anchor a flame bomb to your arrowhead.....) by the way.
> I appear to be one of the few people playing SR who doesn't fawn over
> initiation. Maybe everyone else has seen something that I haven't, but it
> costs tons of karma that I feel could be better spent elsewhere. As the
> rules are, level 0 is the only level really worth striving to attain.
> Unless you have Geasa, then it's worth it to initiate as many times as
> needed to remove your Geasa. Add in the "gradual initiation" rules and it
> becomes a karma pit of minimal return.
Twofold setup. Reduce initiation costs to: 3xBase at CharGen, 2xBase if self
initiating during game play, 1xBase if group initiating, subtract .5 from
multiplier for ordeals, and institute gradual initiation(Because you are
supposed to learn something new when you initiate).
> I'm also one of the few who doesn't like foci of any sort. Nice benefits,
> but the downside is a killer and the cost is staggering. Why spend all
that
> karma and money to get a focus when you can spend that karma filling out
> your spell repetoir and that money buying you the finest library/lodge
> around or more contacts or better equipment? Plus, you don't have that
> grounding/thievery thing dogging you around wherever you go.
Foci can be too easily powerplayed from the ground up. You can get a target
number just about as low as you want to actually make it, and you can reduce
the karma required to bond it to practically nothing. The rules are a little
too rough. And IMHO, orichalcum is just too easy to make.
Wolfstar
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:36:11 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Force Points for Initiation (was Re: The Chromium Mage)
In a message dated 97-07-30 08:45:38 EDT, you write:
> I'm vehemently against any sort of gradual initiation rules, because it
> ENCOURAGES people to initiate more than they would otherwise.
Well, I suppose that's one way of looking at it. I just have a slight
problem with the concept of, "Okay, you aren't a novice mage anymore, you
still have a lot of training to go through, and oh, by the way, here's
metamagic<THUMP>." Initiation is a gradual thing in the real world, why
shouldn't it be in Shadowrun?
Wolfstar
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:38:47 -0400
Reply-To: Philos@****.Net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sir Philos Nex <philos@****.NET>
Organization: Me, Myself and I
Subject: Re: Area Spells
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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George Metz wrote:
>
> They are not in LOS, therefore they are not affected. Your area effect
> spell just hit one person only.>>
> Anywho, to put the "proof" in the pudding, page 111 of Grimoire II says,
"A
> potential target outside of the casting character's sight, but within the
> area of the spell's effect cannot be affected by the spell. Because the
> target cannot be seen, it cannot be affected."
>
> Granted, the way I would've imagined it working was that the spell energy
> would manifest in an area of astral space and then "ground" out through any
> auras in the immediate vicinity. On the plus side, this would seem to make
> grounding a Hellblast through foci or projecting mages not work too well
> unless everyone's seen, or am I missing something?
But in the original example would that "not seen" cover a mob of people
or strands of wheat? The aura of a person extends out somewhat so even
though the crowd of people may prevent the mage to actually see target
A, the spell should still hit that person on the basis that his aura
still probably could be seen over the others. And even in a mix of
auras (like that of a crowd), each is distinct and should be seen
individually.
>
> Wolfstar(Putting on the asbestos undies....)
--
Andrew Dominas
AKA Sir Philos Nex
3rd Year Honours Business Administration U of Windsor
Jedi Knight
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:40:13 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
In-Reply-To: <199707301641.KAA11858@******> from "J. Keith Henry" at Jul
30,
97 12:39:23 pm
Content-Type: text
J. Keith Henry wrote:
|
| My end statement is this Steve. Try and look for more options. Never give
| up and go for what you know. Try and learn something new. The experience
| alone has it's merits. Changing the rules for Astral Signature/Presence just
| because of FAB is entirely out of proportion.
Do you have any idea what this thread is about? The whole point of
the discussion is to discuss new ideas and options for
astral/physical laws and philosophies.
Do you know who Steve Kenson is? Read the credits for Awakenings.
The change of rules is not being discussed just because of FAB
(although the paradoxes created by FAB are more than enough reason
for me). Its also being discussed to clear up the rule mechanics for
spell casting, grounding, dual natured beings, and to simply explain
how it all works.
With SRIII on the horizon Steve (who is part of the team that will be
be producing it) is asking the list for ideas, suggestions, and
comments on the subject of Magic for SRIII.
Got it?
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:39:32 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Baylon 5
In a message dated 97-07-30 08:59:58 EDT, you write:
> I knew TNT would be running it (Weren't Spike and Dvixen bitching about
> this news a month ago?), but I didn;t know they'd be showing reruns of the
> first few season.
>
> This is good news to a fan that has only gotten to see season 4 and the
end
> of season 3...;]
Heh, same here. But if you at least saw War Without End, you're all good. =)
From what I understand they're going to show the eps from Seasons 1-4 in the
afternoon, and Season 5 on Monday and Saturday nights, which seems to be the
prevalent time for most broadcast stations showing it now.
Wolfstar
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:46:10 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Force Points for Initiation
In-Reply-To: <199707301737.LAA14917@******> from "George Metz" at Jul 30,
97 01:36:11 pm
Content-Type: text
| > I'm vehemently against any sort of gradual initiation rules, because it
| > ENCOURAGES people to initiate more than they would otherwise.
And creates a huge karma sink-hole. I've got no problem with that :)
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:47:19 -0400
Reply-To: Philos@****.Net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sir Philos Nex <philos@****.NET>
Organization: Me, Myself and I
Subject: Re: Karma & Characters(Was Skill Levels)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
George Metz wrote:
>
> In a message dated 97-07-29 03:45:35 EDT, you write:
>
> << Some of the characters in our game are as old as the first edition :-)
> Maincore around four to five years.
>
> pool 45 is the highst :] >>
>
> Heh. Never mess with a Troll who's got a karma pool in the 60's. Especially
> one who's married to a Salish Councillor/Eagle Shaman with an identical pool.
> Makes a great fixer though, let me tell you.
> What does anyone think of a proper "retirement level" based on Karma Pool?
> When does a runner say, "Enough is enough, let's get a SIN and move on with
> our lives"? Anyone?
>
> Wolfstar
I would think that's more character decision than anything. You could
have a character who decides to retire after making X bucks, or who
gives up after getting 10 karma pool. I think that everything should be
based on how fun it is to play with the character. I would think that
having a karma pool of 60 whould kinda make the game boring.. each
combat for it to be challenging you're need to be up against 10x the
normal numbers of bad guys just to make it challenging... ("Oh what's
that? 31D damage with 16 successes against me? Well I guess I'll just
make myself reroll until I stage it down to nothing.. soo much for that
nuclear blast":) I would have to say it's a player/GM decision that's
variable for the situation.
--
Andrew Dominas
AKA Sir Philos Nex
3rd Year Honours Business Administration U of Windsor
Jedi Knight
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GB/O d-@>++ s+:+> a-- C++++>$ U P L>- !E----? W+@>++ N++ o K-?
w---(-)>- O+++
!M- V? PS+ PE++>+++ Y-- !PGP- t !5 X R++* tv- b+
DI++++(+++++)>+++++ D++ G e++
h>+ r+++ y+++++(reset)
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:48:05 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:48 AM 7/30/97 EDT, Tim wrote:
>>As long as you remember that Dikote is heat - pressurized diamond.
>>Whatever it is welded on needs to be able to take a couple of
>>thousand degrees celsius. (Only for a *very* short duration, though,
>>so some objects won't be affected.. but firearms, raincoats,
>>backpacks etc. would *definitely* be affected. (The electronics in
>>the firearms, if nothing else. The backpack, raincoats etc. would
>>flash ignite.). As for dikoting armor jackets and such... remember
>>that dikote is *not* flexible. Dikoting armor jackets etc. which is
>>basically flexible will possibly stiffen them beyond usefulness,
>>even if you could dikote them without ruining them.
>Also remember that you wouldn't Dikote the ENTIRE cloth jacket... just
>the ballistic inserts...
>Given that they use melee weapons in the examples it's safe to assume
>that things of that nature are able to withstand the temps involved (by
>that I mean, things of that grade of metal or what ever). And finally, I
>don't think you'd just hand over your entire Ares Predator with all it's
>electronic toys attached and they just pop it in the Dikoting microwave
>and when it goes DING they hand you back a nice shiny, albeit slightly
>useless, weapon... it seems likely that they'd break the weapon down and
>only dikote those parts that COULD wistand the heat... hm?
Perfectly said, Tim...
The dikoted firearm example (a personal favorite even though it does,
effectively, nothing) included dikoting nearly the entire thing before
assembly. The action becomes supernaturally smooth and the weapon as a
whole will last longer, never suffering the nasty effects of corrosion. As
for the smartgun technology being dikoted, there is basis for combining
dikote with electronics, though the smartgun tech in that particular gun
would have to undergo a major revamping.
>Just use some common sence when deciding what can and can't be dikoted
>(I'd say no to a raincoat too..) and the rest is up to you and your
>houserules as to how and when it wears.
Depends on the fabric involved. Granted, the raincoat was a secure long
coat so I could probably get away with that anyway. However, the backpack
wouldn't have made it. Only reason I'd want that dikoted was for
waterproofing (acid rain is a nasty thing and all too common in SR, spending
a touch extra for dikoting makes for longer lasting). Guess I'll just have
to go with the Teflon coating on the other stuff :)
I do wonder why they stated the measurements for dikoting jackets, suits,
and long coats as being so high if all they ever dikote is the plates in the
given article... hmmm. A Kevlar (standard ballistic) weave would be able to
withstand such temperatures easily enough. It's just often combined with
ceramic to make it even tougher. Some fun thoughts there anyway...
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:57:00 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nathan Ray <Gabrie6967@***.COM>
Subject: invisabilty
>The >believe it or not< theory is nice for the standard version of
>invisibility. But how do you explain the physical version. It affacts
>cameras and then video cameras with image storing (tapes or discs or
>chips) ,too. I mean if you look at those tapes later do you have to
>roll against believing or not again? Is there magic on the tape ???
>I don't think so! In that case there must be something more physical
>!
Thats why its a _physical_ spell : )
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:57:28 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Force Points for Initiation
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:36 PM 7/30/97 -0400, George wrote:
>In a message dated 97-07-30 08:45:38 EDT, Lady Jestyr (I think?) wrote:
>> I'm vehemently against any sort of gradual initiation rules, because it
>> ENCOURAGES people to initiate more than they would otherwise.
> Well, I suppose that's one way of looking at it. I just have a slight
>problem with the concept of, "Okay, you aren't a novice mage anymore, you
>still have a lot of training to go through, and oh, by the way, here's
>metamagic<THUMP>." Initiation is a gradual thing in the real world, why
>shouldn't it be in Shadowrun?
My original GM (great GM, btw) used gradual initiation years ago and it's
worked great for our group ever since then. It makes a LOT more sense than
the lump gain of all the secrets of magic you get for level 0. Why would
any astral entity teach some newbie everything anyway? How could someone
just "figure out" everything in one epiphanic (is that a word? sure...)
moment? It just doesn't and wouldn't happen. You'd gain knowledge piece by
piece or, if you did gain a whole lot of knowledge at once, you'd know it to
a limited degree (somehow initiate grade would determine how well your
metamagic works).
The latter bit there sounds interesting, but gradual initiation is still
more realistic. Sure it costs a lot of karma, but there's a lot to be
gained from metamagic and it's not supposed to be easy.
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:59:16 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Eating the bad guy;
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hey now that Bull's a wendigo, eating the bad guy takes on a whole new
meaning.
"Go ahead kill me ... hey whats the furball doing" says badguy as Bull
puts on lobster bib and gets out large knife and fork (a-la Wiley Coyote)
"Fine dining." replies Bull.
regards
-Bill
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:08:08 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At sometime, someday, someone wrote:
> This reminds me. Does anyone besides me think it exceptionally odd that in
> the point system you can have an adept with a significantly greater number of
> starting force points than a full-blown magician can possibly obtain? I've
> got a GM who won't use the point based system(says it leads to power-gaming,
> but I don't see it), but to my mind, this is a significant flaw in that I can
> have quite a few more spells than a more talented magician.
Do you find it odd that under the priority-based system, a sorceror adept
can have significantly more force points at chargen than a mage? They can...
A: Resources & B: Magic vs. A: Magic & B: Resources leads to 15 extra force
points for the sorcerer adept. Don't forget the 600,000 extra nuyen either...
However, in the point-based system, a full mage can have more force points
than a sorcerer if he spends more BPs on force points. Of course, this can
happen in the priority-based system too, but it isn't nearly as customizable
from character to character.
I'm perhaps one of the most outspoken supporters of the point-based system,
but it really does work *that* well. The way that system handles force
points is one of it's greatest strengths (they took force points out of
resources). I could go on about this for days though, I just wanted to make
sure that we all knew that such a situation wasn't limited to the
point-based system. :)
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:09:02 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:16 7/30/97 -0400, Steve Kenson wrote:
> As I mentioned, I could see
>Enchanting rituals to create astrally active materials for use in building
>astral defenses.
If it's astrally active and can be grounded through, it's quite dangerous
to people nearby. (Area effect damaging manipulations are the danger,
not power balls.)
If you have this...
>Ah, but what about a damaging manipulation spell you say? Since DMs ground
>out at the location of the caster's physical body and are then projected
>towards the target, they can't be cast while astral projecting. You have to
>be in your physical body to channel the effects of the spell.
...suddenly, the only risk of having active foci becomes equal to the risk
that
someone will destroy them on the astral. No more worries about someone
grounding
things out through your foci. It gives you much better astral security (you
can now come up with cheap ways of making items astrally active), but it
reduces
the risk of carrying an active focus around with you to the risk of "oh, I
have
to enchant another one". What doesn't bother mundanes won't bother magicians
who aren't astrally perceiving.
>On astral security: Having astrally active security is also more consistent,
>IMHO. If you have dual-natured ivy protecting your building, the GM can treat
>it just like a Ward: assign it a Rating and away you go. Unlike the dormant,
>immovable ivy of SR2, this barrier can be killed in astral combat, but it
>will fight back like any other barrier.
And, unlike wards, you can kill it without anyone being alerted to the fact.
So you just step back and cast Defoliate at it until there's a man-sized hole
in it, and you get to wait for a patrol to notice.
>On grounding: As for being able to ground through enchanted marbles or
>similar drek, you can do that now, if you really want to, but keep the
>following things in mind:
[snip]
All those things are why it's difficult to do so today. If you add
dual-natured
plants and construction materials, suddenly these no longer apply. If it's
practical to make an astrally active wall, the same amount of effort that went
into that can go into making thousands of astrally active marbles that can
be grounded through-- or one astrally active sword that an astral mage could
wield with a spell, at astral reaction speeds.
At 11:17 7/30/97 -0400, Steve Kenson wrote:
>I'm not saying FAB should be totally worthless, only that there should be a
>chance, no matter how small for the trapped character to DO something about
>it. Under the new system, FAB would be rated just like a Ward (which is
>essentially what it is, an artificial, biological astral wall). So if you
>want to make the FAB in a corp facility tough, give it a Rating of 10 or so
>and it'll kick ass on the astral. Make it Rating 15 and almost nobody will be
>able to get through it. But now the trapped character has the OPTION of
>fighting the FAB in astral combat to get out. It might be a very tough fight,
>even a near-suicidal one, but I would prefer to have the option rather than
>being told I had none.
Given that physical contact with a ward and the ward attacking you are
basically synonymous, under the current rules a character would get chewed
up by the FAB cloud and killed. This could be amended easily enough, but
should be if the rules are changed.
At 09:49 7/30/97 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:
>If you use perception and cover modifiers for spellcasting, don't
>forget about the size of the target. You're modifier to hit a marble
>is what, +6? That's really going to put a crimp in the effectiveness
>of grounding that spell. Ditto for attempts to ground out through
>spell locks and most foci.
Which means your spell locks are now harder for astral mages to hit, so not
only
are you not at all worried about someone on astral patrol blowing you and your
party up, you're pretty confident it'll be difficult for them to blow away
your spell locks... I'm sure my player characters wouldn't *object* to this
change in policy, but it reduces the range of threats available to GM's. :-)
At 12:21 7/30/97 -0400, J. Keith Henry wrote:
>I had to enter into this one. You can't engage the "ivy" in Astral Combat,
>as the living signature isn't "active" on the astral level.
I think you could engage dual-natured ivy in astral combat, but I think it
would have the same amount of Unarmed Combat and Combat Pool that ivy has
when you attack it in the physical world. (Consider what happens when you
attack a dual-natured being in astral combat. It doesn't fight back like
a ward; it fights back like a being.) The ivy would need to be more than
dual-natured: it would need to be astrally aggressive.
--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "So, an Arisian, a Vorlon, and a knnn go into a tavern..." %%
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 14:17:04 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
In a message dated 97-07-30 13:19:33 EDT, you write:
> Sorry....forgot to mention a house rule...I only allow players to raise
> stats
> just so far with Karma....which actually puts a limit on earlier thought a
> little more harsh than I wanted....But, to reply to your point people can
> just
> as happily roll 32 dice for unarmed combat/martart/Tae Kwon Do skill using
> the
> current rules and still end up spending less over all karma because you
didn'
> t
> need to max the stat in the first place.
True, but I take the stance on it that it's the GM's job to curb
ridiculousness in skill levels, and when you put a rule-based cap on it and
try to cap below that, players cry foul. Without the attribute cap, if a
player wanted to blow karma to get a 32 unarm/martart/TKD, I'd simply say,
"Alright, and you left the Korean monastery at age 40 to run the shadows
because why?" Making a house rule for skill caps is a little silly IMO,
simply because it's easier for the GM to say "No, you can't" when a player
finds a way around it.
Wolfstar
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:16:42 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:39 7/30/97 -0400, J. Keith Henry wrote:
> However, by accident, I found a way out. I was going to do a Quest of True
>Aura, trying to find any loopholes in the fab walls/cloud. In so doing, I
>noticed the FAB had no metaplanar signature. Way out became very simple. A
>Quest of True Aura on myself (hence, my body), and when I came back to body,
>I was out of the confinement (flipped out the mage).
According to vanilla SR, you can only project to the metaplanes from your
physical body. (If this were not true, it would be a really cool way to get
out of astral confinement and deal with "I just got back from an astral trip
and someone moved my body!": hit the metaplanes, come back in your own body.)
--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "So, an Arisian, a Vorlon, and a knnn go into a tavern..." %%
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 19:17:37 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970730100901.00933620@******.ba.best.com> from "Max
Rible" at Jul 30, 97 10:09:02 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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|
|At 11:16 7/30/97 -0400, Steve Kenson wrote:
|> As I mentioned, I could see
|>Enchanting rituals to create astrally active materials for use in building
|>astral defenses.
|
|If it's astrally active and can be grounded through, it's quite dangerous
|to people nearby. (Area effect damaging manipulations are the danger,
|not power balls.)
|
|If you have this...
How about 10 feet of concrete with an enchanted layer in the middle.
The aura doesn't penetrate that far. Can't see it, can't ground through
it.... Simple....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:25:00 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 19:17 7/30/97 +0100, Spike wrote:
>How about 10 feet of concrete with an enchanted layer in the middle.
>The aura doesn't penetrate that far. Can't see it, can't ground through
>it.... Simple....
So you float through the concrete until you can touch the enchanted layer,
and ground out through that. Simple.
--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "So, an Arisian, a Vorlon, and a knnn go into a tavern..." %%
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 14:26:23 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nathan Ray <Gabrie6967@***.COM>
Subject: No Subject
Cripes! I just realized that most of my responses have gone to the origanal
poster instead of the list. Anyone with AOL know how to solve that?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:00:57 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
In-Reply-To: <199707301827.MAA17400@******> from "Max Rible" at Jul 30,
97 10:25:00 am
Content-Type: text
Max Rible wrote:
|
| At 19:17 7/30/97 +0100, Spike wrote:
| >How about 10 feet of concrete with an enchanted layer in the middle.
| >The aura doesn't penetrate that far. Can't see it, can't ground through
| >it.... Simple....
|
| So you float through the concrete until you can touch the enchanted layer,
| and ground out through that. Simple.
And how does touching it give you the ability to see it? Not so simple :)
BTW Spike, very nice <EGMG>.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:02:59 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: No Subject
In-Reply-To: <199707301828.MAA17432@******> from "Nathan Ray" at Jul 30,
97 02:26:23 pm
Content-Type: text
Nathan Ray wrote:
|
| Cripes! I just realized that most of my responses have gone to the origanal
| poster instead of the list. Anyone with AOL know how to solve that?
Every mailer I've seen has the option of changing the To: field
before you send your mail. I don't know where it would be on AOL
though. With Eudora it's always at the top of the window. With ELM
I have to ask to look at the Headers first.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:11:25 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 13:00 7/30/97 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:
>Max Rible wrote:
>| At 19:17 7/30/97 +0100, Spike wrote:
>| >How about 10 feet of concrete with an enchanted layer in the middle.
>| >The aura doesn't penetrate that far. Can't see it, can't ground through
>| >it.... Simple....
>| So you float through the concrete until you can touch the enchanted layer,
>| and ground out through that. Simple.
>And how does touching it give you the ability to see it? Not so simple :)
I simply don't believe that you can't spellcast at something you can touch
and not see.
--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "So, an Arisian, a Vorlon, and a knnn go into a tavern..." %%
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:26:26 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gossamer <kajohnson@*******.TEC.WI.US>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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> According to vanilla SR, you can only project to the metaplanes
> from your physical body.
Disagree.
If you're being followed by a watcher that you can't outrun, a quick
trip in the meta direction is the one sure way to lose them...
As per the Watchers section of GrimII (someone quote me a page).
Love,
Gossamer
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:15:45 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 14:26 7/31/97 -0500, Gossamer wrote:
>> According to vanilla SR, you can only project to the metaplanes
>> from your physical body.
>Disagree.
>
>If you're being followed by a watcher that you can't outrun, a quick
>trip in the meta direction is the one sure way to lose them...
>
>As per the Watchers section of GrimII (someone quote me a page).
I thought that required that you go back to your body and hit the metaplanes.
Then again, it wouldn't be the first time the Shadowrun rules contradicted
themselves...
--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "So, an Arisian, a Vorlon, and a knnn go into a tavern..." %%
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 21:20:40 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: No Subject
In-Reply-To: <970730142621_139783795@*******.mail.aol.com> from "Nathan
Ray"
at Jul 30, 97 02:26:23 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|Cripes! I just realized that most of my responses have gone to the origanal
|poster instead of the list. Anyone with AOL know how to solve that?
|
It should be the fault of the original author you're replying to...
Not yours.
You see, there's a field in the header called "Reply-To".
This should be left blank, and the list fills it in with its address.
If it ISN'T blank, however, the list ignores it....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 21:21:43 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970730102459.00914600@******.ba.best.com> from "Max
Rible" at Jul 30, 97 10:25:00 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|At 19:17 7/30/97 +0100, Spike wrote:
|>How about 10 feet of concrete with an enchanted layer in the middle.
|>The aura doesn't penetrate that far. Can't see it, can't ground through
|>it.... Simple....
|
|So you float through the concrete until you can touch the enchanted layer,
|and ground out through that. Simple.
But that wouldn't affect anthing BUT the layer itself using Steves new
rules....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 16:22:04 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
On Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:49:56 -0400 Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
writes:
<snip>
>Well, I think that a Conjuring Pool in ANYONE's hands would scare me.
>Spirits are very powerful. They are relatively cheap help (even for
>Hermetics). It's expensive to hire a bodyguard to hang around, but
>you can
>conjure up a decent force elemental and have him at your beck and call
>for
>a few thousand NY. I don't think that being able to summon up more
>powerful Spirits is necessary. Nor do I think that getting more
>successes
>is necessary.
The way the rules I've suggested are currently set up, you might get a
couple more services or slightly lower drain, maybe both. I'm working
right now on test rolling dice for each of the five magical archetypes
from SR2 (Combat Mage, Shaman, Street Shaman, Street Mage, Former Wage
Mage) and for a Force 5 and Force 3 spirit. So far, most haven't even
been capable of staging down the drain (and the only ones that have (the
Shaman and Street Shaman) wouldn't have taken drain worth worrying too
much about anyway). I've finished up the rolling under standard rules,
I'll get the rolls for my house rules here finished and post my results.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 16:22:04 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage)
On Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:36:11 -0400 George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM> writes:
>In a message dated 97-07-30 08:45:38 EDT, you write:
>
>> I'm vehemently against any sort of gradual initiation rules, because
>it
>> ENCOURAGES people to initiate more than they would otherwise.
>
> Well, I suppose that's one way of looking at it. I just have a slight
>problem with the concept of, "Okay, you aren't a novice mage anymore,
>you
>still have a lot of training to go through, and oh, by the way, here's
>metamagic<THUMP>." Initiation is a gradual thing in the real world,
>why
>shouldn't it be in Shadowrun?
Here's my thoughts on the matter:
As soon as you reach Grade 0, you gain the potential ability to use any
form of Metamagic, but not necessarily the knowledge. This is most
important for those of you self-initiating types out there. Figuring out
how all those wonderful new abilities work just might take an astral
quest or some serious thinking, at the least. About the only metamagic I
can see the magician taking advantage of automatically is the sheilding
pool they get (well, they get it after their second initiation). Masking
might automatically mask the newbie initiate's aura as a non-initiated
form of themself. Theoretically, you could have a magician who's
initiated up to Grade 5 or 6, all on his own, and about the only
differences he'd notice are that he can cast higher-force spells without
physically hurting himself, and he's a _lot_ harder to affect with
incoming spells. But that's just my thoughts on the matter:)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 16:22:04 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
On Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:31:21 -0400 "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
writes:
<<On the topic of Charisma and Conjuring (sorry, I lost the other thread
by accident), the Charisma vs. Drain for spirits has to do with the "Self
Image" concept. Invoking a Spirit or Elemental means influencing other
beings. They reflect their perceptions of the caster by the way the
caster's "self image" reflects upon their own presence. That Charisma is
their bridge into the world sort of.>>
Now, I'm a bit confused. What you're saying is that how the caster views
himself (self-image) is more important than how he actually is? Or do you
mean that his strength of personality (which really could be represented
by either Charisma or Willpower depending a bit on the situation and how
you interpret things) is what is most important to the spirit being
summoned? Here's an idea: The Conjuring test represents the magician
attempting to influence/coax/force the spirit into servitude. The Drain
Test (based on Charisma) represents the summoner sort of getting the best
of the spirit (or vice versa).
Here's the way my system would look in that perspective:
The Charisma test for summoning represents the magician negotiating with
and persuading the spirit to do what he wants. Throwing in lots of
Conjuring would represent a more brute force attempt in which the spirit
is more or less forced. The Drain being determined by magic represents a
sort of metaplanar phone call in which the summoner sends notice to the
appropriate metaplane via a bit of channeled magical energy, the stronger
the call, the stronger the spirit that responds. This channeling of
magical energy causes fatigue (aka Drain) on the summoner. Conjuring
Drain, like Spell Drain, is resisted with Willpower, representing the
magician's strength of mind conquering and putting away that fatigue.
Throwing Conjuring pools represents the summoner's ability in
communicating with the spirits making it easier to get them to show up.
At least, I think that's how I see it.
<<And the idea of a conjuring pool is a good thing, at the very least for
the Hermetics. Sorry, I love Shamans, but the idea of a Conjuring Pool
in the hands of Spider or Owl just sends chills up and down my back.>>
Conjuring pool would work just like the Magic Pool, in that the number of
dice that can be thrown into the Summoning test is limited by the
summoner's Magic Rating. So extra dice mostly make it easier to resist
the drain of Summoning.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:26:25 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 21:21 7/30/97 +0100, Spike wrote:
>|At 19:17 7/30/97 +0100, Spike wrote:
>|>How about 10 feet of concrete with an enchanted layer in the middle.
>|>The aura doesn't penetrate that far. Can't see it, can't ground through
>|>it.... Simple....
>|So you float through the concrete until you can touch the enchanted layer,
>|and ground out through that. Simple.
>But that wouldn't affect anthing BUT the layer itself using Steves new
>rules....
It would do nicely for putting a hole in the barrier, permitting the mage to
float on through. It wouldn't even set off any alarms, since it's embedded in
concrete, unless someone figured out how to make a tamper sensor that would
figure out that the material it was hooked up to was being disrupted in some
way...
--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "So, an Arisian, a Vorlon, and a knnn go into a tavern..." %%
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 16:35:38 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Karma & Characters
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:38 AM 7/29/97 -0500, Adam wrote:
>On Tue, 29 Jul 1997, George Metz wrote:
>> What does anyone think of a proper "retirement level" based on Karma
Pool?
>> When does a runner say, "Enough is enough, let's get a SIN and move on with
>> our lives"? Anyone?
>I don't think it should be based on Karma pool levels, though it will
>play a small part. People that become Shadowrunners do so for a reason;
>need money, revenge, adrenaline junkies, track someone down, etc. After
>a character has achieved the goal that originally set him down his path,
>or found a way to deal with it, then he should retire.
I have to agree with Adam here. Shadowrunners do have a purpose and set
goals for themselves just like anybody else. Once you achieve those goals,
you move on or you stagnate. If all you wanted was to "stick it to The Man"
how many times do you do this until it loses it's attraction? If you were
running for cash, how much cash do you need to accomplish what you want
done? You've been a runner for a while now and know a lot of people, why
risk your neck when you can become a fixer and live a much easier life?
Sure, there are those psycho-runners out there who want to run forever but
they all end up losing their edge (by age, SOTA, overconfidence, or making
the wrong people just mad enough) and at their level, they won't get away
with mistakes. Sooner or later, they'll get made. And then what? Were
they ready to just pack up and retire, move into the light? Or were they
too caught up in what they were to ever imagine such a thing might happen?
Did they even see it coming? This is where true roleplaying comes in, to
paraphrase a slogan that I'm sure we all know: You have to know when to say
when...
>Point is, when a character has reached the end of her story, she should
>go back to what she had. She can still be a mentor to new PC's (Blade)
>but is not needed as a crucial part to the story.
There's a great point, old PCs make great NPCs. The players know them and
they like to know that their old favorite character isn't just thrown away
now that a new game has started.
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 18:11:11 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Opaque glass on the astral? (was Re: [SR3] Area Spells)
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Wed, 30 Jul 1997 00:56:58 -0400"
<970730005657_950697234@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
You wrote:
> <sigh...> Okay, as far as I'm concerned, if it don't make a splash when I put
> my hand through it, it isn't liquid. Besides, in 1997 the majority of windows
> are made of something other than pure glass. In Shadowrun I'd imagine windows
> would be made of Lexan or something. At least high quality plexiglass.
All depends, since by 2050 the ingredients for plastics may be getting scarce
enough to make those expensive, whereas the ingredients for glass shouldn't
rise too much in price by then.
losthalo, worked in a factory that finished glass :)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 18:13:08 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Wed, 30 Jul 1997 01:17:34 -0400"
<970730011732_-1810147812@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
You wrote:
> This reminds me. Does anyone besides me think it exceptionally odd that in
> the point system you can have an adept with a significantly greater number of
> starting force points than a full-blown magician can possibly obtain? I've
> got a GM who won't use the point based system(says it leads to power-gaming,
> but I don't see it), but to my mind, this is a significant flaw in that I can
> have quite a few more spells than a more talented magician.
A full magician is not necessarily more talented than an adept, just has the
ability to learn more types of magic... A sorcery adept, with a focus on
spells and nothing else, might certainly excel over a full magigian in number
of force points. Look at the quote about not being able to do as much as some,
but no one is better at what I do (in one of the grimmies).
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 18:17:08 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Force Points for Initiation (was Re: The Chromium Mage)
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Wed, 30 Jul 1997 15:53:50 +1000"
<Pine.BSF.3.95.970730154919.8797A-100000@*******.dialix.com.au>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
You wrote:
> I'm vehemently against any sort of gradual initiation rules, because it
> ENCOURAGES people to initiate more than they would otherwise.
I *really* don't follow the logic behind that, sorry. :/
Could you explain what you mean?
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 16:52:56 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---"J. Keith Henry" wrote:
>
> > On astral security: Having astrally active security is also more
> consistent,
> > IMHO. If you have dual-natured ivy protecting your building, the
GM can
> > treat
> > it just like a Ward: assign it a Rating and away you go. Unlike
the
> dormant,
> > immovable ivy of SR2, this barrier can be killed in astral
combat, but it
> > will fight back like any other barrier.
> >
> I had to enter into this one. You can't engage the "ivy" in Astral
Combat,
> as the living signature isn't "active" on the astral level. Yeah,
this is
> part of that Metaphysical Hairsplitting that was mentioned in the
part I
> snipped (sorry), but there is a BIG difference between active astral
presence
> and passive astral presence. If you start doing the "dual nature"
options
> for living beings, then Astral Combat becomes INCREDIBLY dangerous.
In his example, Steve's referring to having a special breed of
awakened ivy that was grown and bred to be dual natured for astral
security. He's not referring to making all living beings dual natured
or astrally present.
===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You're being held up by a stim patch, Loki's almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we've got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 21:07:56 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Apple Core (was: Re: The Chromium Mage)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:50 AM 7/30/97 -0500, Michael Broadwater wrote these timeless words:
>At 05:52 AM 7/29/97 -0400, Bull wrote:
>>At 10:41 PM 7/26/97 +0100, Spike wrote these timeless words:
>>
>>> an apple core....
>>>
>>Say no more...
>>
>Who's your friend?
>
HIM! (Bull says pointing at Spike)
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 19:35:58 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: [Admin] Contacting me
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Just a quick note folks -- my fro@****.mmlc.nwu.edu address is dead, it's
been replaced with fro@****.cas.nwu.edu.
I can also be reached over ICQ, my UIN is 2350330, or you can just run a
search for my primary email address, fro@***.ab.ca
I also accept blank cheques at my snail mail address, email me for details
for this amazing offer! :)
-Adam
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
GC3.1 GO d-- s--:-- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+@ E? W-- N++ o? K- w O- M- V-- PS+
PE++ Y+ PGP- t+@ 5 X R+++>$ tv- b++(+++) DI+ D---- G++ e- h! r y-
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 21:57:14 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
On Wed, 30 Jul 1997 21:21:43 +0100 Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
writes:
>|So you float through the concrete until you can touch the enchanted
>layer,
>|and ground out through that. Simple.
>
>But that wouldn't affect anthing BUT the layer itself using Steves new
>rules....
Which is fine, because you've accomplished what you wanted: you're in.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 21:57:14 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
Well, I've done all my rolling with the archetypes. I rolled each test 3
times (when rolling the success and drain resistance tests under my
setup, I split Conjuring Pool evenly between the two tests - not
realistic, but simpler - with a preference for the summoning test)
Basically, you wind up with a slightly more level field, characters tend
to get about the same number of services and usually get enough successes
to stage the drain down to nothing. The number of services gained was
about equal or a little less, the greater number of successes on the
Drain resistance usually resulted from characters having much higher
willpower than charisma (in the two cases where Charisma and Willpower
were about equal, successes on the drain resistance test were still
higher, but fewer servicces were usually earned, since services under the
system I'm proposing are gained at one per two successes).
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 22:10:45 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Force Points for Initiation (was: The Chromium Mage)
On Wed, 30 Jul 1997 18:17:08 -0500 "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU> writes:
>> I'm vehemently against any sort of gradual initiation rules, because
>it
>> ENCOURAGES people to initiate more than they would otherwise.
>
>I *really* don't follow the logic behind that, sorry. :/
>Could you explain what you mean?
What Lady J was saying is that by making Initiation a gradual thing, a
player is more likely to have their character initiate to higher grades
than they would otherwise have bothered with, simply so that they can get
all the metamagical abilities they want/need.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 22:42:34 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Adepts and Astral Projection -Reply
In a message dated 97-07-30 13:04:28 EDT, MikeE@*********.COM writes:
> My reply:
> I don't like that nearly as much. Auras are
> completely indetectable by science, and having
> them exist only astrally explains that neatly, in
> addition to why only some people can see them.
> As for being able to pass through them: consider
> them astral "smells", rather than astral objects.
>
Uh, I won't do the dreaded action here, but Mike, you have limited yourself
greatly. Ever heard of Kirlian Photography invented by the Russian? Sure,
it measures electrical auras and displaced energy patterns on a photochroma
plate, but the idea is there.
Lets take that to the Cybernetic Age and the Awakening....
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 22:41:28 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Force Points for Initiation (was: The Chromium Mage)
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Wed, 30 Jul 1997 22:10:45 -0400 (EDT)"
<19970730.220938.18295.3.lobo1@****.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
You wrote:
> What Lady J was saying is that by making Initiation a gradual thing, a
> player is more likely to have their character initiate to higher grades
> than they would otherwise have bothered with, simply so that they can get
> all the metamagical abilities they want/need.
Yeah, and what I don't understand is why that might be a problem... What's the
difference in having those other abilities gained after several grades rather
than at the first? Gaining all five metamagic abilities at Grade 0 never made
any sense to me, I think gradual initiation makes it more like skill gains, it
takes time to develop. YMMV I was just curious as to what about gradual
initiation bugger her so much.
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 22:54:04 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: You ATE the bad guy?!?! (Was - Re: Karma & Characters)
In a message dated 97-07-30 13:16:37 EDT, bluewizard@*****.COM (Steven A.
Tinner) writes:
>
> Dear God! You ATE somone?!?!?!
> Are you playing a shapechanger by any chance?
>
> I'd love to hear the entire story behind this ...
>
Hey Tinner, have you ever heard of the group that was made up of Shapers and
Vamps? They ordered pizza, paid the company via anonymous tip for the
delivery, the Vamps ate the essence, the shapers ate the guy and the two
"norms" ate the Double Everything else...
-Keith
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 22:54:24 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
On Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:28:33 -0400 "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
writes:
>In a message dated 97-07-30 11:18:03 EDT, TalonMail@***.COM (Steve
>Kenson)
>writes:
>
>>
>> 1) Enchanted items generally have to be in contact with their user to
be
>> astrally active.
>
>Not necessarily. They have to be "turned on", if their are foci-like,
than
>they can be carried off. As long as the magician maintains astral
>perception upon the link, it is going. This is one of the loopholes on
astral
>maintenance.
eh? Where'd that come from? AFAIK the only thing that maintains an
astral presence AFTER leaving *physical* contact with the magician who
activated it is a spell lock, and if you remove it from who ever it was
activated on, it too goes dormant.
Did I miss some pages in SR2, the Grimmoire, or Awakenings.... or are you
just quoting a house rule?
~Tim
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 22:55:15 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Force Points for Initiation (was: The Chromium Mage)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:41 PM 7/30/97 -0500, Wendy Wanders, Subject 117 wrote these timeless
words:
>You wrote:
>> What Lady J was saying is that by making Initiation a gradual thing, a
>> player is more likely to have their character initiate to higher grades
>> than they would otherwise have bothered with, simply so that they can get
>> all the metamagical abilities they want/need.
>Yeah, and what I don't understand is why that might be a problem...
What's the
>difference in having those other abilities gained after several grades rather
>than at the first? Gaining all five metamagic abilities at Grade 0 never
made
>any sense to me, I think gradual initiation makes it more like skill
gains, it
>takes time to develop. YMMV I was just curious as to what about gradual
>initiation bugger her so much.
>
Basically, the problem is that Magical Initiates are supposed to be VERY
rare, and higher level initiates even more so... yet, it seems like quite
rapidly every mage/shaman/physad in a game becomes a 4th or 5th level
initiate, and it just skews the whole concept of rarity.
By using gradual initiation, so that you only get one ability per level, or
whatever, you encourage the mage/shaman to initiate to a higher level than
he would normally force himself to go...
<shrug>
I can see both sides of it, and while I like magic, I think that the power
levels are screwed... It's the same with skill levels. Certain high
numbers become the norm for Shadowrunners, but they're so much ridiculously
higher than what is _SUPPOSED_ to be high levels... i mean, a grade 3 or 4
Initiate should be considered VERY rare and VERY powerful, but is common as
dirt as far as Shadowrunners go. <shrug>
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:19:51 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Force Points for Initiation (was: The Chromium Mage)
In-Reply-To: <01ILV4MREUHA9ID00U@******.acs.muohio.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> Yeah, and what I don't understand is why that might be a problem... What's the
> difference in having those other abilities gained after several grades rather
> than at the first? Gaining all five metamagic abilities at Grade 0 never made
> any sense to me, I think gradual initiation makes it more like skill gains, it
> takes time to develop. YMMV I was just curious as to what about gradual
> initiation bugger her so much.
Because unless you limit shielding dice and magic point increases as
well, with gradual initiation, by the time the character gets to the
level of metamagic they want they'll have grotesque amounts of shielding
dice and similar magic ratings...
Lady Jestyr
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:21:55 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Full of Life (Warming Up)
In a message dated 97-07-30 13:41:15 EDT, dbuehrer@****.ORG writes:
I apologize ahead for the following...but, I believe that everyone had it
coming. There is a larger, very much IN TOPIC portion further on.
> Do you have any idea what this thread is about? The whole point of
> the discussion is to discuss new ideas and options for
> astral/physical laws and philosophies.
Yes David, I do, more than you might know. I have discussed previous topic
lines with Steve. And yes I have seen his name on the Awakenings Credit
list, which is exactly why I wrote what I did.
> Do you know who Steve Kenson is? Read the credits for Awakenings.
I hope you read my previous entry.
> The change of rules is not being discussed just because of FAB
> (although the paradoxes created by FAB are more than enough reason
> for me). Its also being discussed to clear up the rule mechanics for
> spell casting, grounding, dual natured beings, and to simply explain
> how it all works.
The rules are understandable, NOT clear. In that form I completely agree
with you. However, the concept of making a Passive Aura interactable on the
Astral Plane opens to many doors for abuse, even if it is only for a single
living thing. Everyone on this list I believe also knows that -I- am usually
one that will go for neat ideas and extreme measures. And I know what I am
saying when I mention that the Active vs. Passive Astral Signature concept is
all that should be approached, NOT how that concept is bridged or "updated."
If the concept of Grounding (OOOPS< I SAID THE BAD WORD!!!) is bothering
people so much, then perhaps everyone so bothered can slow down a bit and
look at the rules again until their eyes get bloodshot, and when that is done
they can simply say, "WHY?"
Active Auras/Signatures are reflective entities of a given being from another
realm. As living beings on the "Mundane" realm, we give off an aura of Life
at a fundamental level. And by the way, those auras on the Astral are
reflective in other directions. They can also be reflective of those beings
on parallel planes of reality, be they Metaplanes or entirely different
universes. Beings that can reach the Astral in an active, direct form, be it
consciously (as a magician) or subconsciously (as many paranormal critters
do) have that connection. As such, they have a more prevalent structure in
the Metageography. Spell Locks, Anchorings, Quickenings, Magical Foci and
MUCH more also have that link between one or more "reflections" of existence.
In the latter examples cases, it is simply an artificial one.
Passive Auras/Signatures are merely the reflection of said beings from a
given plane that lack a directly interactive state of being with the
"parallel" universe, in this case, the Astral Plane. HOWEVER, as they have a
state of living, a Life, they are part of the overall "background noise".
Passive Auras/Signatures, being normally "ignorant" of their reflective
nature, are therefore directly unreachable (though there are many indirect
methods, you just have to know where to look for them). In this case,
Ignorance really is Blissful for so many.
-=-=-=-=-
The Crossing
For those things that are capable of bridging the distances, an interactive
state can be reached. Magicians, Paranormals, Spirits, and others, all have
the ability to at the very least subconsciously draw from that other state of
being. To channel it in some fashion that can effect at least one other
parallelity at a time.
Have you ever noticed how a magician sustains drain for their actions? Have
you noticed that even dragons suffer drain from the usage of some of their
powers (like flaming an area instead of a single target)? Have you ever
noticed that if you give a living thing -to much- resource potential, it will
sufficate?
All of that holds true here as well. Life is a fuse, a candle wick, which
can only take so much flame before it extinguishes itself, it burns itself
out. The universe, in SR standards, has thought of that, which is why
certain things have a Passive Structure instead of an Active (Interactive)
one. If the Active ones can suddenly find ways to interact with the Passive,
then a stop gap in cosmic safety switches has been reached.
Give a farm some land and water, patience and care, it will grow. Flood the
Field, Give it too much Sunlight, it will drown or burn up.
Additionally, when more power moves into a region, it creates "pockets" of
lower power in what would normally be "stable" Astral or Metageography.
Drain the lake to feed the fields, the life around the lake with drain as
well, taking with it the ability of that life level to survive. I suppose
that life would become incredibly nasty-minded in that way. If you think
about, you could apply that to the SR/ED crossover theory as well.
If this is a tide, and ours has come in, just exactly whose has gone out?
> With SRIII on the horizon Steve (who is part of the team that will be
> be producing it) is asking the list for ideas, suggestions, and
> comments on the subject of Magic for SRIII.
(California Blonde Speak- Skill Rating- Nth Power) "Like WOW man, you don't
say"
> Got it?
Dave, I had it long before you read it.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:20:34 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Force Points for Initiation (was: The Chromium Mage)
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Wed, 30 Jul 1997 22:55:15 -0400"
<3.0.16.19970730225557.2ccfc04e@*****.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
You wrote:
> Basically, the problem is that Magical Initiates are supposed to be VERY
> rare, and higher level initiates even more so... yet, it seems like quite
> rapidly every mage/shaman/physad in a game becomes a 4th or 5th level
> initiate, and it just skews the whole concept of rarity.
> By using gradual initiation, so that you only get one ability per level, or
> whatever, you encourage the mage/shaman to initiate to a higher level than
> he would normally force himself to go...
Okay, now I gotcha, but... this just means that Grade X means less than it did
before, only high grades are meaningful. From what I've heard, there are a lot
of Initiating PCs in games now, and that would seem to be because of all the
'neat stuff' you gain with just one grade of Initiation. However, if you
didn't *get* Anchoring, Centering, Dispelling, Masking, Quickening, and
Shielding, et drecking cetera at Grade 0, it might be so much more beneficial
to do other things with Karma, like raise Sorcery to gain Magic Pool, or learn
more and more spells... Initiation is 'kid in a candy shop' at grade 0, too
many new toys to know what to do with them all.
> I can see both sides of it, and while I like magic, I think that the power
> levels are screwed... It's the same with skill levels. Certain high
> numbers become the norm for Shadowrunners, but they're so much ridiculously
> higher than what is _SUPPOSED_ to be high levels... i mean, a grade 3 or 4
> Initiate should be considered VERY rare and VERY powerful, but is common as
> dirt as far as Shadowrunners go. <shrug>
Same thing happened with Alpha and Betaware, why do you think Delta came about?
So there would be a 'really, really rare' category of better cyber, since
everyone and their brother had at least Alpha. SR has been doing this over
time, just upping the power levels every year or so, and it's not a trend I
like. Just look at Cybermancy, was that idea even remotely necessary? It was
something to get Cybertechnology to sell better, imo, and a fairly interesting
but not really... good idea.
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:28:07 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: invisabilty
In a message dated 97-07-30 13:57:45 EDT, Gabrie6967@***.COM writes:
> >The >believe it or not< theory is nice for the standard version of
> >invisibility. But how do you explain the physical version. It affacts
> >cameras and then video cameras with image storing (tapes or discs or
> >chips) ,too. I mean if you look at those tapes later do you have to
> >roll against believing or not again? Is there magic on the tape ???
> >I don't think so! In that case there must be something more physical
> >!
>
> Thats why its a _physical_ spell : )
>
Okay, let me see if I can help out a bit. I sure hope people involved here
will also read the "Full of Life (Warming Up)" response I gave, because it
can help explain a few things.
Physical Illusions are causing one form of material to manifest itself into a
sense of structure upon a new level of existence. That "material" can be
errant energy (in the case of Chaotic World) or it can be simple filler, in
the case of a Physical Mask. Part of the reason that a Physical Mask, or any
directed Physical Illusion has a limit to variation is that it draws upon the
"reflective existence" of one world and distorts it by overlapping the
"perceived existence" that object may have upon another.
We may all view Granite as a Wendigo for example, with all his new white fur
and fangs, but in some worlds, he is still an Ork. Thus, a Physical Mask can
be drawn upon to shroud his appearance on this one. Remember, the Universe
in all its Diversities is Infinite. What each one of us believes is our own
unique thought or inspiration is likely to be the structure for an entire
universal constant somewhere/when else.
By the way Granite, hows the Food Bill these days?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:28:40 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Force Points for Initiation (was: The Chromium Mage)
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:19:51 +1000"
<Pine.BSF.3.95.970731131848.8442A-100000@*******.dialix.com.au>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
You wrote:
> Because unless you limit shielding dice and magic point increases as
> well, with gradual initiation, by the time the character gets to the
> level of metamagic they want they'll have grotesque amounts of shielding
> dice and similar magic ratings...
Ah... there are solutions to such things, but yeah, it requires mucking about
with the rules. Personally rather than Initiating to ungodly levels I'd rather
take one Grade and then spend my hard-earned Karma on the things that my new
Metamagic abilities enhance... Sorcery skill, new spells, do some Quickenings,
mask some foci... Why get to be a high grade Initiate unless it gives new
abilities? You could, for simplitity's sake, include something in Gradual
Initiation: the Magic gain is not automatic either, it's one of your options,
you have to take that in place of a new Metamagic ability. :) *shrug*
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:35:46 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Bandwagoneering...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Just thought I'd leap on the bandwagon. I have just downloaded and
installed ICQ, so if anyone feels like dropping me a line my UIN is
2439321. :)
Lady Jestyr
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:39:07 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
In a message dated 97-07-30 14:06:38 EDT, kajohnson@*******.TEC.WI.US
(Gossamer) writes:
> > As this is stated it is almost identical to the sorcery system with
> > one exception.You begin with a number of dice equal to the spell level
> > to cast with, for conjuring you start with 0 dice. Now if there were
> > some way to introduce spell like structures into conjuring, a
> > different one for each type of elemental/spirit. The character would
> > purchase them with force points initially and could raise learn new
> > ones or raise the level of each "summoning ritual" with karma just
> > like they were spells
Okay, a question arises then. Where does the "Spirit" originate? Calling
upon beings from other levels of existence isn't something that is drawn from
within a given person. It is something that must be done as a matter of self
expression or impressionable influence, hence Charisma, not Willpower.
> Why not then institute "Spell" type things for Conjuring. Yet another
> Karma sink for Mages.
Oh glorious, I can hear this one coming...
> Hermetic:
> Fire
> Earth
> Water
> Air
>
> Shamanic:
> whatever it is that they summon
then let us also not forget Watchers, Free Beings, Firey Firmament, Ghosts
(what , you never understood what the Plane of Man may have?), Horrors (hey,
Devils/Demons) and who knows what else
> they'd function identically to spells, and you'd take drain from them
> just like with spells, and you couldn't summon anything with a
> higher Force than your rating.
And that limitation may sound nice in the beginning, but then a question of
how to reach "the big guys" comes into play. You'd have to design such a
ritual (which is done anyway, the rules are just not mentioned for Conjuring
Rituals very often) and then your limitation for such rituals might be a
magic attribute thing (which I believe you mention below)...all in all,
sounds the same as what exists currently.
> So you could have Fire 7... and that would allow you to summon
> up to a Force 7 fire elemental. If the Force you're summoning is
> higher than your Charisma, you take physical damage if it's not
> you take stun. The damage code... how does Deadly sound?
Really? Hows this for a Concept? Elementals, in fact all quasi-related
beings have "NAMES", Freeborn or Not. Have the ED people ever wondered where
the term "Name Giver" really came from? Being called by a Name Giver gives a
"standard elemental" the chance to gain a Name. The idea of conjuring "up
to
the rating" of the conjuring "spell" would be thrown out quickly on that
basis.
> That would mean that you could die in a summoning attempt.
Those chances exist already, and in more ways that they do in spellcasting
for that matter.
> Of course it would also mean that one needs 8 successes on
> the Drain test to avoid any damage, which I think is pretty fair.
So you would make at least a majority of the conjuring "spells" Deadly? Oh
yeah, sounds really understandable.
> Other than that, it'd work just like spells. Conjuring pool is
> conjuring skill or concentration or specialization as appropriate,
> you get dice equal to the Force you're summoning (just like
> a spell) TN is still equal to the Force?? And drain TN is
> equal to (whatever sorcery drain TN is in your game).
Ah, now this becomes interesting. With this method, you actually gain more
dice to attempt the conjuring with. Hey, sure thing. I may have
misunderstood things, but this doesn't actually limit things, it gives things
more room actually. We all know from experience that if a player is given
more dice, regardless of the odds present and the dangers apparent, they will
take the chance and often beat the odds.
> That would give more consistency between Sorcery and Conjuring.
It would also erase their differences, which need to be maintained IMVHO.
> Of course, I just thought this up and take no credit or blame for
> the ideas presented.
No problem, I just whipped up this response on the fly too. Sorry, didn't
mean to sound so overly condescending.
> Love,
> Gossamer
Kisses Back
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:43:18 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Baylon 5
In a message dated 97-07-30 14:34:57 EDT, scollins@**.UML.EDU (Steven A.
Collins) writes:
> ->
> Well to add something people possably didn't know Claudia Christian
> will not be returning for season 5. This was her choice and not
> Strazynski's. According to my souirces he isn't going to kill Ivanova
> off but he will write her out of the story line and have someone else
> do the things she needed to do in the final season.
>
>
Damn, I here I thought that Boxleitner had been pacing the floors. He must
need the job more than Ms. Christian. That really blows. Especially with
the possibility of Marcus and Ivanova getting together.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:49:11 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
Comments: To: mbreton@**.netcom.com
In a message dated 97-07-30 15:11:22 EDT, mbreton@**.netcom.com (Matb)
writes:
>
> Speaking of Conjuring, neither Enchanters nor Astral Adepts rely on
> their Magic Rating either, a situation which could be improved upon.
> I'd suggest making the "Reduce Time" test a function of Magic Rating.
> Not sure how it can be incorporated into Astral Adeptitude, since
> Assensing is pretty straightforward. Maybe have it apply a reduction in
> target number (Astral Adepts *should* be better at Assensing than anyone
> else.)
Okay, from someone whose fave character is an Enchanter Adept, I can say that
this isn't totally correct. Magic Attribute in Orichalcum is a requirement,
as is in the radical tests. And if you are going for the Shamanic Adept
variation on the Enchanter Adept (say for Creator or Ometeotl-EWG), then the
idea of spending more time on the Astral Plane searching for the correct
astral energies of a given raw material is nice as well.
As for making things better, how about letting Astral Adepts spend their
points like a Physical Adept for a couple of "Edges", say Aptitude (Aura
Reading) or for the Enchanter, Aptitude (Enchanting). It mentions Sorcery
and Combat Skill and Computers, but what about the support skills? Why does
everyone and everything have to be about augmenting the one, how about
augmenting the -ALL- as well.
> Now, I do have a problem with the adept who goes out and buys a megayen
> of foci and bonds them all. The problem can usually solved by several
> NPC mages and a few ground spells....
Or maybe a piano falling on someone's head...just as evil...
> How many out there allow initiation for starting characters? Not many.
> Physads, incidentally, don't get the base 30 Force in the build system,
> and even allowing for the non-Edge purchase of them (Q: Why have the
> somewhat-optional Edge when a somewhat-optional rule allows for it
> anyway?) means they have to blow a considerable amount of points on
> Initiating for a marginal increase in ability. The more experienced
> players won't; the beginners usually end up with a dead character.
If I have someone who is joining a given storyline in progress, and an
initiated mage or adept is an option (depending on the group status and/or
feelings), then allowing for someone to start as Grade 0 (Grade 1 for a
PAdept) isn't so bad. Circumstances would make the ruling.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:50:18 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
In a message dated 97-07-30 15:12:44 EDT, slothman@*********.ORG (Max Rible)
writes:
>
> >And how does touching it give you the ability to see it? Not so simple
:)
>
> I simply don't believe that you can't spellcast at something you can touch
> and not see.
>
>
I agree, and I know a few Ghoul Magicians out there that might argue as well.
How about spells that are specifically touch, like Heal and/or Treat?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:50:44 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Steve Kenson once dared to write,
>I would like to remove the "immovable object" problem from astral space. As
>it stands now, there are 3 types of astral things: astral forms (which can
>interact), auras (reflections of material things, which show information, but
>a non-tangible) and living beings, which can block and affect astral
>movement, but cannot in turn be affected from the astral.
I would suggest you come at this from another direction. The
"immovable object" problem is a major plot device for Shadowrun's sister
game Earthdawn. Earthdawn's Kaers featured promently in for the survival
against the Scourge. Although the rules between the two are almost
nonexistant the game logic is fairly unchanged. By your suggested ruling
there would have been no need to bury so many of the Kaers in the ground.
Any new interpretations on the existing game philosophy will be somewhat
reflected in Earthdawn as well if it's going to fly.
>This last category creates numerous awkward problems and logical paradoxes,
>as anyone who has dealt with FAT Bacteria can attest. If living things cannot
>be moved or affected from astral space, what happens if you throw a net of
>living bio-fiber over an astral form? How do astral forms displace airborne
>bacteria? etc.
<snip proposal>
We still have this can of worms which in turns starts then brings up
other tricky situations between astral and and the real world. My only
sudden inspiration during a drowsy state of an answer I have is to create
rules for handling Aura Barriers and when they must be used. It's still
an ugly way of handling it but it does push the issues through, as it
were. (No pun originally intended). If you consider this method make sure
it reflects the current barrier rules in some way (and any changes SR3
might have).
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
"All artists are victims of their desire to be unique"
-Original source unknown
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 20:51:51 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: invisabilty
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---"J. Keith Henry" wrote:
>
> We may all view Granite as a Wendigo for example, with all his new
white fur
> and fangs, but in some worlds, he is still an Ork. Thus, a Physical
Mask can
> be drawn upon to shroud his appearance on this one. Remember, the
Universe
> in all its Diversities is Infinite. What each one of us believes is
our own
> unique thought or inspiration is likely to be the structure for an
entire
> universal constant somewhere/when else.
>
> By the way Granite, hows the Food Bill these days?
Erm... Bull is the Ork Decker turning Wendigo, not Granite.
Firgured I'd point that out. :o)
===
@>--,--\'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
"You\'re being held up by a stim patch, Loki\'s almost a pile of ashes
thanks to that fire elemental, and we\'ve got the Baron running around
screaming assassins...assassins...oh eek, assassins!"
--> Caric to Ook during the Harlequin Campaign
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 00:08:09 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Area Spells
In a message dated 97-07-30 16:15:19 EDT, riegelja@*****.MSU.EDU (James A
Riegel) writes:
> Hmmm....my evil thought for the day....mage has gesture geas....He whips
off
> an
> area effect combat spell and is inside the radius....*ZAP* "But i never
> got
> hit before" says the player. That's cause your own aura wasn't extended
> into
> your line of sight....Ok so it's cruel but essentially correct by the
rules.
>
> JR
>
(Pondering) Noise, actually, though evil and demented it is, it is
interesting. Area Effect spells -might- hit the target that is within sight
if something distracted the mage.
Has Potential
(Keith hands JR a cookie)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 00:10:11 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: AOL Cures (was : Re: No Subject)
In a message dated 97-07-30 17:14:30 EDT, Gabrie6967@***.COM (Nathan Ray)
writes:
>
> Cripes! I just realized that most of my responses have gone to the
origanal
> poster instead of the list. Anyone with AOL know how to solve that?
>
Actually, I usually use the "Reply to All" option. I'm not sure why you're
mailer is having that problem.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 00:10:10 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Adepts and Astral Projection -Reply
On Wed, 30 Jul 1997 22:42:34 -0400 "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
writes:
<snip>
>Uh, I won't do the dreaded action here, but Mike, you have limited
>yourself
>greatly. Ever heard of Kirlian Photography invented by the Russian?
Sure, they used it in the X-Files just a little while back;) Some neat
stuff there...
>Sure,
>it measures electrical auras and displaced energy patterns on a
>photochroma
>plate, but the idea is there.
>
>Lets take that to the Cybernetic Age and the Awakening....
Hmm . . . A Kirillian Aural Detection Device, works by checking out
displaced energy patterns within a very specific area . . . might even
qualify for one of the Big D's bequests . . .
<yet another idea being tucked away for a rainy day>
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 00:16:54 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
In a message dated 97-07-30 18:12:27 EDT, lobo1@****.COM (John E Pederson)
writes:
> <On the topic of Charisma and Conjuring (sorry, I lost the other thread
> by accident), the Charisma vs. Drain for spirits has to do with the "Self
> Image" concept. Invoking a Spirit or Elemental means influencing other
> beings. They reflect their perceptions of the caster by the way the
> caster's "self image" reflects upon their own presence. That Charisma is
> their bridge into the world sort of.>>
>
> Now, I'm a bit confused. What you're saying is that how the caster views
> himself (self-image) is more important than how he actually is?
Actually, that is somewhat correct. Ever remember that statement about the
newbie mage in training projecting with the little old man mentor? Newbie
arrives, can't find his mentor until "the big booming voice" gets his
attention.
> Or do you
> mean that his strength of personality (which really could be represented
> by either Charisma or Willpower depending a bit on the situation and how
> you interpret things) is what is most important to the spirit being
> summoned?
And Again, the answer would be yes. Just remember that Charisma is a
reflection of Self Image and the Perceivable Persona. Willpower is the focus
and directive "force" that a person can imply upon a responsive medium.
> Here's an idea: The Conjuring test represents the magician
> attempting to influence/coax/force the spirit into servitude. The Drain
> Test (based on Charisma) represents the summoner sort of getting the best
> of the spirit (or vice versa).
Nice so far.
> Here's the way my system would look in that perspective:
> The Charisma test for summoning represents the magician negotiating with
> and persuading the spirit to do what he wants. Throwing in lots of
> Conjuring would represent a more brute force attempt in which the spirit
> is more or less forced. The Drain being determined by magic represents a
> sort of metaplanar phone call in which the summoner sends notice to the
> appropriate metaplane via a bit of channeled magical energy, the stronger
> the call, the stronger the spirit that responds. This channeling of
> magical energy causes fatigue (aka Drain) on the summoner. Conjuring
> Drain, like Spell Drain, is resisted with Willpower,
Whoa, hold on, what happened to Charisma?
> representing the
> magician's strength of mind conquering and putting away that fatigue.
> Throwing Conjuring pools represents the summoner's ability in
> communicating with the spirits making it easier to get them to show up.
> At least, I think that's how I see it.
The idea is the same, but I think we see Willpower in different lights.
> <<And the idea of a conjuring pool is a good thing, at the very least for
> the Hermetics. Sorry, I love Shamans, but the idea of a Conjuring Pool
> in the hands of Spider or Owl just sends chills up and down my back.>>
>
> Conjuring pool would work just like the Magic Pool, in that the number of
> dice that can be thrown into the Summoning test is limited by the
> summoner's Magic Rating. So extra dice mostly make it easier to resist
> the drain of Summoning.
Okay, then here is one to chew on and please note, you'll want to have
Granites' new teeth for this one. Spirit Etiquette for your "negotiating."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 00:24:31 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
In a message dated 97-07-30 20:40:44 EDT, slothman@*********.ORG (Max Rible)
writes:
> According to vanilla SR, you can only project to the metaplanes from your
> physical body. (If this were not true, it would be a really cool way to
get
> out of astral confinement and deal with "I just got back from an astral
trip
> and someone moved my body!": hit the metaplanes, come back in your own
body.
> )
Vanilla SR? Actually, the Vanilla SR only mentions it in other forms.
Quests can be performed from any beginning mode, as long as Astral
Connectivity is present. That is how multiple mages across the world end up
doing Astral Quests together, regardless of their beginning points (okay,
that is part of it).
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 00:34:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Joker Syndrome
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Bull once dared to write,
>Speaking of Joker, Batman, Comics,and the Body... Guess which villian
>they're bringing back for the next Batman Movie? yup... The Joker, and we
>saw his body at the end of the first movie...;]
<scratching my head>
IIRC, Scarecrow and Harlequin (from Batman:TAS) were supposed to be
the villains.
And I say we should hunt down Schumaker anyway for what damage he's
already done.
- MC23, who is now gearing up for the Batman Coup -
Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le
Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton!
Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le
Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 00:42:43 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Mundane Astral Perception
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Just a thought here.
Would it be possible to design a set of goggles worn by a mage that track
where his eyes move, and then relay that info to another set of goggles
worn by a mundane?
The concept I'm working at here is - ASSUMING - that mages eyes DO track
astral forms just as they track mundane sights, then would it not be
possible to use "view to a kill"/smartgun aiming technology to coordinate
the mages eye movements to a mundane, wearing a set of goggles.
This could allow the mundane to see a targeting reticle over the area an
astral form was occupying, thue allowing the mundane to ... I don't know,
hit it with a FAB bat or something. ;-)
This sound logical or have all these cheese puffs melted my brain?
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 00:38:14 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Joker Syndrome
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:34 AM 7/31/97 -0400, MC23 wrote these timeless words:
>Bull once dared to write,
>
>>Speaking of Joker, Batman, Comics,and the Body... Guess which villian
>>they're bringing back for the next Batman Movie? yup... The Joker, and we
>>saw his body at the end of the first movie...;]
>
><scratching my head>
>
> IIRC, Scarecrow and Harlequin (from Batman:TAS) were supposed to be
>the villains.
>
They still are... But you can;t have Harley without the Joker...
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:57:05 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bandwagoneering...what is ICQ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970731133434.8442B-100000@*******.dialix.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 31 Jul 1997, Lady Jestyr wrote:
> Just thought I'd leap on the bandwagon. I have just downloaded and
> installed ICQ, so if anyone feels like dropping me a line my UIN is
> 2439321. :)
>
>
> Lady Jestyr
O.k. it seems that I don't get out enough, what is ICQ ?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 00:58:35 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nathan Ray <Gabrie6967@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Opaque glass on the astral? (was Re: [SR3] Area Spells)
In a message dated 7/31/97 1:02:17 AM, you wrote:
>|> So here is my simple, universal rule: solids are
>|> opaque, gases are transparent, liquids are
>|> somewhere inbetween. It's due to the
>|> cohesiveness of their auras :)
>|>
>|> Double-Domed Mike
>|
>| Sounds good. Except that glass is actually a very viscous liquid,
>| rather than a solid.
>
>So THAT'S why glass is transparent.....
>
>:)
So what about tinted glass? (hehe- can't see the target sitting in the limo?
just switch to astral and draw a bead. +2 is better than blind fire <evil
grin
- Gabriel, The Angel of Death
"When in danger or in doubt run in circles scream and shout"- Robert Heinlien
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:02:43 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Bandwagoneering...what is ICQ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970730235547.811A-100000@******.tamu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> > Just thought I'd leap on the bandwagon. I have just downloaded and
> > installed ICQ, so if anyone feels like dropping me a line my UIN is
> > 2439321. :)
> O.k. it seems that I don't get out enough, what is ICQ ?
In summary, ICQ is a proprietary system with a great deal of uptake
(www.mirabilis.com). It combines elements of UNIX Talk, IRC, email, and
DCC to make a general communications tool. It's very powerful and I like
its potential - sadly, however, I think they've had HUGE uptake with the
result that their server is very overloaded. Because of this, it's not
very convenient because their server goes up and down all the time. This
may change, however.
Lady Jestyr
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 00:04:51 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: help needed on researching campaign ideas.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I was watching "Roar" the other night (so far a slow starter, hopefully it
gets better) when the one roman bad guy is revealed to be the roman who
pierced the side of Christ and was turned into some immortal demon/nasty
thingy. Anyway, he is looking for the spear he used to do it, so he could
end his curse ... this got the old gears a grinding ...
I was thinking of having the runners eventually run into Martin DeVries
and find out that the he wants them to go get the spear from a coven of
vampires etc etc etc.
I was talking to Faux Pas the other night and he told me about the "Spear
of Destiny" from the comics. Are these two spears the same thing? Could
someone lay a little background on me about either of these, or some
books, graphic novels etc.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Bill
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 01:16:37 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: help needed on researching campaign ideas.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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> I was talking to Faux Pas the other night and he told me about the "Spear
> of Destiny" from the comics. Are these two spears the same thing? Could
> someone lay a little background on me about either of these, or some
> books, graphic novels etc.
AFAIK They are not.
TSoD is IIRC tied to Celtic Myth.
The spear that peirced Christ's side was called IIRC The Spear of
Longuinus?
Again, this is to the best of my knowledge.
I do like the whole setup for your plotline though!
DeVries is a very interesting character IMO, and he makes a great tool for
introducing PC's into vampires.
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 22:38:50 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Chuck Stevens <harmonix@**.NET>
Subject: Re: help needed on researching campaign ideas.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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----------
> From: Steven A. Tinner <bluewizard@*****.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: help needed on researching campaign ideas.
> Date: Wednesday, July 30, 1997 10:16 PM
>
> > I was talking to Faux Pas the other night and he told me about the
"Spear
> > of Destiny" from the comics. Are these two spears the same thing?
Could
> > someone lay a little background on me about either of these, or some
> > books, graphic novels etc.
>
> AFAIK They are not.
> TSoD is IIRC tied to Celtic Myth.
> The spear that peirced Christ's side was called IIRC The Spear of
> Longuinus?
>
> Again, this is to the best of my knowledge.
> I do like the whole setup for your plotline though!
> DeVries is a very interesting character IMO, and he makes a great tool
for
> introducing PC's into vampires.
>
> Steven A. Tinner
> bluewizard@*****.com
> http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
> "FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
When the Romans (and others) brought Christianity to Ireland, a lot of
Christian ideas got mixed in with the Celtic myths. Both the Spear of
Destiny and the Holy Grail were originally Celtic, and had nothing to do
with Christ; but, eventually, the Christ-connection was added to those
myths.
The Spear that Longuinus[sp?] used to pierce Christ's side is, in fact,
the Spear of Destiny. Check out books on Celtic mythology for more on both
the Spear of Destiny and the Holy Grain (the pre-Christian versions, that
is.)
------------------------------------------------------
Chuck Stevens
harmonix@**.net
"If your god is so omnipotent,
why does he need my money?"
- Salmoneus
------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:35:50 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "MARTIN E. GOTTHARD" <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Karma & Characters
In-Reply-To: <199707302135.QAA30597@*******.fgi.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> >Point is, when a character has reached the end of her story, she should
> >go back to what she had. She can still be a mentor to new PC's (Blade)
> >but is not needed as a crucial part to the story.
>
> There's a great point, old PCs make great NPCs. The players know them and
> they like to know that their old favorite character isn't just thrown away
> now that a new game has started.
Old PC's also tend to get a bit more respect from the players.... They're
less likely to screw them over for no reason (unless you've got a munchie
in the group)...... And if the previous characters have amassed a serious
amount of karma they get the respect (and fear) of the new characters,
which makes the GM's job easier.
Old PC's also usually have established personalities and
histories, which can be used to make plot devices which interest the players.
Marty
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:50:36 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "MARTIN E. GOTTHARD" <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: You ATE the bad guy?!?! (Was - Re: Karma & Characters)
In-Reply-To: <970730225253_-1139851998@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> > Dear God! You ATE somone?!?!?!
> > Are you playing a shapechanger by any chance?
> >
> > I'd love to hear the entire story behind this ...
> >
>
> Hey Tinner, have you ever heard of the group that was made up of Shapers and
> Vamps? They ordered pizza, paid the company via anonymous tip for the
> delivery, the Vamps ate the essence, the shapers ate the guy and the two
> "norms" ate the Double Everything else...
Hey, now that's what I call 'total utilisation'.... And they even get the
guys car to tool around in. *grin*
Kinda reminds me of that adventure with Jetblack (can't remember the
name), where he eats the bad guy at the end of it.
Marty
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:41:38 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "MARTIN E. GOTTHARD" <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
In-Reply-To: <970730130645_-55007342@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> > Munchkins are involved. Hehehe...that's what gamemasters are for
> > tho...Ok...make an etiqutte(corp) 6 test. Munchkin:"Can I default from
> um,
> >
> > um, um....firearms?" All the dice but evil evil TN's.
>
> Ewww, the hideousness of that thought. Why? Because everyone will max their
> attributes with Karma, then max their skills, concentrations, then
> specializations, and since those caps are in place, become perfect specimens
> of their species. All that's left is Immortality. I can see it now, everyone
> notices a proliferation of Troll martial artists who can roll 32 dice for
> their Unarmed Combat/Martial Arts/Tae Kwon Do skills. Not a good idea.
>
I've seen that scenario........ All it takes is a weapon focus (Rating
15) in the hands of a troll Physical Adept.
(The guy killed a dragon with one hit)
....I can see the people firing up already about the absurdly high rating
of the focus, but bear in mind that it's easily within the rules to do
it, for only 15 Karma, given enough orichalum, money and time .
Perhaps the enchanting rules need looking at as well (I'm not sure if
that's been covered already; I've been away)
Marty
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 01:00:10 +1000
Reply-To: jade@***.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jason & Deanna Rodhouse <jade@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Physical Mages (was Re: Physad Enhanced Centering)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:38:55 -0400 J. Keith Henry wrote:
> Uhm, guys....it does mention in the Awakenings under the Physical Mage that
> any points NOT spent on regular (aka, spellcasting/conjuring) magic must be
> applied the geasa rules as well. Sounds like the same as a Burnout to me.
>
IIRC it says that for every two points not spent on an active magic
rating at char. gen., you gain a geasa on your spellcasting/conjuring
skills. This stricture only applies at char gen and not when you decide
to apply that new initiation level to physad abilities instead of active
magic. You can also strip those geasa through initiation at a later date
in time. However, if you suffer magic loss at some point in time, it
will affect your active magic rating first, thereby opening yourself up
to all new geasa. Really, your only a Burnout if you choose to be.
Pilgrim
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 01:21:05 +1000
Reply-To: jade@***.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jason & Deanna Rodhouse <jade@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:26:26 -0500 Gossamer wrote:
> > According to vanilla SR, you can only project to the metaplanes
> > from your physical body.
>
> Disagree.
>
> If you're being followed by a watcher that you can't outrun, a quick
> trip in the meta direction is the one sure way to lose them...
>
> As per the Watchers section of GrimII (someone quote me a page).
>
> Love,
>
> Gossamer
>
Sure, page 74 GrimII. It states that if, during the search phase of a
watcher's astral tracking attempt , the target walks through a ward or
takes a trip to the metaplanes; the watcher will lose the trail. Another
page #is 94 where it says that 'the character must project directly onto
the metaplane. He can make no side trips to the etheric plane first.' It
would seem to indicate that a trip to the metaplanes from an astrally
projecting starting point is right out.
Pilgrim
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 03:06:18 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Mundane Astral Perception
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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> From: Steven A. Tinner <bluewizard@*****.COM>
> Date: Thursday, July 31, 1997 12:42 AM
> Just a thought here.
Uh oh...
> Would it be possible to design a set of goggles worn by a mage that track
> where his eyes move, and then relay that info to another set of goggles
> worn by a mundane?
Oh my. I would say no, simply because I don't view astral perception as
purely visual input.
> The concept I'm working at here is - ASSUMING - that mages eyes DO track
> astral forms just as they track mundane sights, then would it not be
> possible to use "view to a kill"/smartgun aiming technology to coordinate
> the mages eye movements to a mundane, wearing a set of goggles.
In my campaign, when astrally perceiving, nothing appears different about
the mage on the physical plane. To look to his right, he changes his point
of view, so to speak, but doesn't turn his head, for example. This is just
my opinion, however...I don't think this is clarified in the canon rules
anywhere.
> This could allow the mundane to see a targeting reticle over the area an
> astral form was occupying, thue allowing the mundane to ... I don't know,
> hit it with a FAB bat or something. ;-)
Don't say that word! ;)
> This sound logical or have all these cheese puffs melted my brain?
Defintitely the cheese puffs. ;) Actually, there are ways of seeing into
the astral plane for mundanes, IMO. For example, you may allow LSD to
impart astral perception during part of the trip. Not that you can do a
whole hell of a lot except stare at the pretty colors, but that's an
interesting way of allowing a mundane to experience what a mage does for
awhile. (I rule that all the color trails, etc. seen on an acid trip are
actually things being perceived on the astral plane.) And I am sure folks
could come up with other ways of allowing mundanes to temporarily perceive
the astral plane, without letting it get out of control. After all, using
LSD does have its risks. :)
> Steven A. Tinner
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 03:16:44 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Barrier Spells
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Okay, I know this has been discussed in the past, but I am hoping I don't
get thwapped too hard for asking this. :)
I can't seem to find the passage in SR2 that states that barrier spells
refresh on every action the casting mage has. Also, I know there has been
some controversy over how these rules should be interpreted.
Can someone help me out so I can make a house rule about this before it
comes up in my campaign (as I am sure it will soon enough)?
Thanks!
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 03:21:05 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Psychometry (Aura Reading)
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I have developed some house rules regarding Psychometry (Aura Reading).
IMO, Astral Perception and physical Perception are two entirely different
things. Thus, I don't allow someone to use their Perception skill on the
astral, without some heavy defaulting penalties. Here are the house rules
I have developed. I would greatly appreciate any
comments/suggestions/opinions you all have on them.
The Psychometry skill (a.k.a. Aura Reading) is not immediately derived from
Intelligence or mundane Perception. Thus, if a character viewing the
Astral Plane does not have the Psychometry skill, they must default from
one of the following skills/attributes: Intelligence, Magical Theory, or
Perception. Treat Intelligence as if it were located in the same position
as Willpower on the Skill Web for calculating the default modifier. Also,
treat Perception as if it were one dot closer than Willpower on the skill
web for the same purpose.
Thanks for your critiques!
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 03:23:35 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Crossover ideas
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Okay, I know this is cheesy, but I think it's completely realistic for some
dark heros to appear in the SR universe to help fight against "big
brother". Thus, I would like some advice as to how to create a
Batman/Robin and a Spiderman for SR. It seems that Spiderman could easily
be a Physad, while Batman and Robin could be mundanes.
I think I have seen some ideas for Spiderman somewhere, but I can't recall
where.
Ideas? Flames? Suggestions? Compliments on my ingenuity? ;)
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 04:17:56 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Optional Metatypes, part 4: Vamp 2.0
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OK, I sat down and was reviewing some of the stuff I'd done with the
Vampire Optional Metatype (and was in the process of working up rules for a
Wendigo to go along with it) when I realized I had Forgotten a few things
(Like the Vampire's Initiative), and that I didn;t have any rules for
turning a current human character into a Vampire. So, here's my modified
Vampire Rules (Vamp 2.0:))
VAMPIRE CHARACTERS
The rules below allow you to create vampire characters, either as a
starting character, or to turn your current favorite Human PC into a Vampire.
HUMAN HMHVV (Contracting Vampirism)
First off, HMHVV is contracted when a human is killed do to having all of
his/her essence drained by a Vampire. The human body will remain legally
dead and lifeless until it rises upon sunset 24 hours after death occurred.
At this time, the new Vampire awakens, and his initial powersd manafest.
Also, latent regeneration powers (Even if the Vampire has no Regeneration
during the early part of his life) will force any and all Cyberware and
Bioware from it's body. This can be very painful, especially if the
vampire had cyberware that connected to his nervous system, like Wired
Reflexes or Skill wires.
However, his body will be completely whole and normal, with no scarring,
and any body parts that were replaced by articfial devices will have grown
back fully. The new vampire, however, will begin it's new life with an
Essence of 1, and will be quite hungry. Vampires often are forced to feed
on the first victim they find after awakening to their new life. They
will, most often, retain their memories of their former lives, though the
memories of their last moments of true life (i.e., meeting the vampire that
killed them, and tyheir death) will be blank or fuzzy, as the human psyche
doesn't deal with death very well.
If the body of a human that has contracted HMHVV is destroyed before it
"awakens", then the person will not rise as a vampire. Methods of
destruction include incinerating the body, or dismemberment with a Stake
thru the heart, and the head cut off. The latter form is more common due
to the common misconceptions based on movies and novels such as Dracula, by
Bram Stoker. This method works, however, due to the body not being able to
regenerate itself from the severed head and the stake.
Rules:
The Vampire works similar to the way a Phys-Ad works, so that playing
something like a vampire is somewhat feasible (but still very suseptible to
munchkinizing. Sorry, but there's no way to make a vampire that isn't a
munchkin, at least deep down inside.)
If the character is a new character, you pick your priorities. Race must
be priority (A), and depnending on whether you wanted a spellcasting
Vampire or not, Magic would be (B) or (C), with (B) being for the
spellcaster. Magic can NOT be taken any lower than (C), as the character
is similar to a Phys Ad, even if he can cast spells. I would also suggest
using the more metahuman rule if using this with a regular group.
If you are using the SR Companion rules, You must spend 10 points for
Metahuman, and then either 20 points for Magician or 15 points for a Phys
Ad (Even though he is technically not a Physical Adept).
Other than that, the rest of the char is standard. The last thing you do
is pick your vampiric powers, which are detailed below.
If the character is a currfent PC getting transformed do to contracting
HMHVV, his natural, unmodified stats are used as the base for the vampire.
Any bioware or cyberware is lost during the transformation, so the
characters stats drop accordingly. He also gets to choose vampiric powers,
though alternatively the GM can choose what powers he starts off with.
Also, Vampire Mages can still cast spells, and their magic rating strats as
either a 6 for new characters, or as whatever the old PC's magic rating was
before he was turned into a Vampire.
OPTIONAL RULE: Depending on how a particular GM sees it, you may want to
be careful with spellcasting Vampires who want to cast spells higher than
their magic rating, hoping to regenerate from physical damage. i suggest
either not allowing a vamp mage to be able to cast spells higher than their
magic rating, or if a vamp takes physical damage from spellcasting and
regenerates, have him simply take stun instead. This prevents Spellcasting
Vampires from getting overly powerful and simply regenrating whenever they
take physical damage.
The Vampire get three "Power Points", which is what he uses to buy his
vampiric powers. All vampiric characters are new vampires, freshly
infected with the Vampiric Disease, thus they haven't fully developed most
of there powers.
Also, Vampires have a large amount of weaknesses. These vary from Vampire
to vampire, and some even have few, if any, weaknesses. You can buy
Vampiric Weaknesses, which will then give you more Power Points to spend on
Vampiric Powers. This is similar to the Edges and Flaws from the
Companion. Weaknesses can ONLY be bought at character creation, and the
bonus Power Points given by them MUST be spent at that time. Any points
not spent at this time are lost. You may not "save" points or partial
point until the next "grade", or Vampire Level.
Powers (Point cost)
Enhanced Strength (1)
Enhanced Hearing (.25)
Enhanced Smell (.25)
Essence Drain (*)
Immunity to Aging (.25)
Immunity to poison (.25)
Imm. to pathogenins (.25)
Infection (1)
Mist Form (2)
Thermographic Vision (.25)
Regeneration (1/lvl)
Natural Claws (.5)
Heightened Speed (1 point)
Weaknesses (Points given)
Allergy to Sunlight, Mild (*) ((This may be upgraded)
Allergy to Sunlight, Moderate (.5)
Allergy to Sunlight, Severe (1)
Induced Dormancy from Lack of Oxygen (.25)
Vulnerability to Wood (.25/level)
Allergy (Psychological) to Holy Symbols (.5)
Unable to use Cyberware or Bioware (*)
Essence Loss (*)
Natural Lack of Bouyancy (*)
Powers or Weaknesses marked with '*' are automatically gained. They
cannot be bought off, nor do they give any bonus.
Now, what do some of these do? Well, in general, I followed the book and
took there normal powers. Some I modified. The most noticable change is
in the regeneration. Having a 2+ regen on a d6 gets vulgar, so you make it
difficult to get. Each level improvs the roll by 1 number. the chart
below calculates it. Notice at level one, you do not have a roll. This is
simply a basic regen. If you are hit for a Deadly wound, you are dying.
You do not get to regen. However, If you are at below a deadly wound, then
you auto regen like normal. The cost is deliberately high so that all but
the most powerful vampires instantly regenerate everything. Also, not that
stun damage DOES NOT regen. However, as this was much discussed just
recently on the list feel free to make this rule optional (you will
anyways, so I might as well give permission.)
Regeneration Chart
Level 1 Basic Regen, no roll for deadly wound.
Level 2 Roll of 6 to regen
Level 3 Roll of 5 to regen
Level 4 Roll of 4 to regen
Level 5 Roll of 3 to regen
Level 6 Roll of 2 to regen
Level 7 Roll of 1 to regen
Level 8 DOESN'T EXIST!!!
Also, the other thing I modified is the weakness wood. You can take it at
4 levels, nuisance, moderate, Serious, and deadly. This buys that allergy
at that level, as well as affects the damage code of pure wooden weapons
(No formica or varnished wood. It reduces the damage). Each level
automatically stages the damage from such a weapon up one notch (or 2
automatic successes, depending on how you calculate it).
Ex. a wooden club that does 6L damage normally, will do 6S damage instead
to someone with a level two allergy.
Also, A vampire is unable to use cyberware or bioware, as it messes up his
essence and if he had the regeneration ability, it would automatically kick
the intruding piece out and replace it with a regenrated original.
Claws are simialar to cyber spurs and will do Str M damage.
Heightened Speed gives the vampire +1d6 to initiative.
Psychological Weakness to Holy Symbols: This weakness will cause a Vampire
to want to avoid viewing Holy Symbols or holy men, and being inside a
church or being touched by a holy symbol will cause the vampire to take 6S
stun damage/round of exposure, as well as cause him to become violently ill
for several rounds.
Lastly, the Vampire has grades called Vampire Levels, similar to Initiate
grades for Mages/Shamans/PA. The Karma costs are the same, except that
they do not have the quest type options available. They COULD, however,
group initiate with vampired of a higher grade. This "initiation"
basically consists of the Vampire taking the time to learn about himself
and learn new powers or learn how to use his natural powers more easily.
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 04:26:27 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Crossover ideas
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At 03:23 AM 7/31/97 -0400, Justin Pinnow wrote these timeless words:
>Okay, I know this is cheesy, but I think it's completely realistic for some
>dark heros to appear in the SR universe to help fight against "big
>brother". Thus, I would like some advice as to how to create a
>Batman/Robin and a Spiderman for SR. It seems that Spiderman could easily
>be a Physad, while Batman and Robin could be mundanes.
>
>I think I have seen some ideas for Spiderman somewhere, but I can't recall
>where.
>
>Ideas? Flames? Suggestions? Compliments on my ingenuity? ;)
>
Heh... no flames here...
About 8 months ago the list was kicking around some ideas and one of those
was a Gecko Crawl-like power for Phys-Ads called Adhesion. this was done
by George Greve. i expanded on that Idea to create the Spider-Man
character that you might be referrring to. I made him as a Shamanic Adept
following a modified Spider Totem, Urban Spider. this character, though,
could just as easily be a normal Phys-Ad. The alternate totem was just my
own version of Spider that wasn;t quite so creepy...;]
I also designed Webshooters for the character. he can be found in TSS 1
(Available on Fro's homepage) and on my page (Follow the link below).
Batman and Robin qould probably be even easier to do, as they have no true
super powers to speak of. They are just superb examples of human prowess
with some good Unarmed Combat skills, and lots of Detective/Analytical
skills. Oh yeah, and a lot of Expensive toys.
These characters could make enjoyable PC's or NPC's, especially if the
character playing them happens to be big comic book fans.
You could probably do most charcters quite easily... Wolverine would be
Hieghtened Senses, Regeneration (Ok, that stretches things a bit), Titanium
Bone Lacing, and Spurs.
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:59:31 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: NORBERT MATAUSCH <nmatausc@****.CIP.FAK14.UNI-MUENCHEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Crossover ideas (another one)
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Weelll ...
not an answer, really, but another question:
does anyone have experience with a Judge Dredd-SR crossover?
:)
BulletSHower
______________________________________________________________________________
Wanna know more about DICELESS ROLEPLAYING AND AMBER AND SHADOWRUN?
Then jack into http://www.cip.fak14.uni-muenchen.de/~nmatausc
..... and don't forget: "Simplify." J. Martin
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:12:03 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Invisibility spells revisited (was Re: [SR3] Area Spells)
In-Reply-To: <10543.199707301105@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
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Spike said on 12:05/30 Jul 97...
> Actually, I think the reason Thermographic works is because it's not looking
> for reflected light (which the invisibility spell bends) but emitted light,
> as in body heat.....
However, that is speculation (as, admittedly, is my reasoning for why UV
vision wouldn't be affected by invisibility spells) since SR doesn't
mention the actual "real"-world mechanics behind the spell. Does it bend
light, as is suggested in many places, or does it make people take no
notice of the target?
Both have their pros and cons.
Bends Light Theory (BLT)
Pro: provides a good reason for why others are able to see "through" the
spell's subject from all angles. For the physical version of the spell, it
also explains why cameras don't register the subject.
Con: the subject wouldn't be able to see, since light is bent around
him/her/it and so will not reach his/her/its eyes or other viewing
devices. Also it doesn't explain why IR light (body heat) isn't bent
around the target, except by using the explanation that only reflected
light is affected, not light given off by the subject.
Take No Notice Theory (TNNT)
Pro: this allows the subject to see while under influence from the spell.
Con: the Disregard spell (in Awakenings) specifically states this is how
that spell works; it makes little sense if Invisibility does the same
thing. It also doesn't explain why thermographic vision isn't affected,
nor why cameras don't spot the subject of physical invisibility spells.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:12:03 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Full of Life
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David Buehrer said on 9:49/30 Jul 97...
> If you use perception and cover modifiers for spellcasting, don't
> forget about the size of the target. You're modifier to hit a marble
> is what, +6? That's really going to put a crimp in the effectiveness
> of grounding that spell. Ditto for attempts to ground out through
> spell locks and most foci.
That is actually something SR is greatly in need of: a simple table
showing TN modifiers for object sizes. It doesn't have to be anything
fancy, but BTB it's just as easy to hit a coin as it is to hit a dragon.
Unless that coin is being held by the dragon, in which case it's a
+4 for making a called shot to shoot the coin out of its paws.
A simple table like this (values thought up on the spur of the moment, so
take them with a grain of salt):
Size Modifier
Coin +8
Weapon +4
Body part +4
Dwarf +1
Human +0
Troll -1
Small car -2
Dragon -4
Medium car -4
Large car -6
Building -8
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:12:03 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
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Justin Pinnow said on 6:45/30 Jul 97...
> How about an easier way of doing something similar: Keep the system the
> same, but add a one-line rule stating that you cannot summon a spirit who's
> force exceeds your magic rating. Simple, neh? :)
That is a fix that would stick closer to the "normal" SR way, though I
have a feeling someone will point out that you can cast spells with a
Force higher than your Magic Rating. (Self-fulfilling proficy? What's
that? :)
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 05:44:39 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Optional Metatypes, part 5: Wendigos
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Next on bat is the Wendigo. I'm basing a lot of this on two sources. The
secrets of Power Trilogy (Though it's been a couple years since I read
those) where Sam verners sister turns from an ork to a Wendigo. I'm also
basing this (And writing this for) my current campign, as my Ork Decker
Bull has contracted HMHVV and is turning into a wendigo. I'd like to thank
the Shadowrun mailing list, as well as my GM Steven Tinner for their
contributions to this particular piece.
The Wendigo will follow construction rules similar to the Vampire rules
I've done up previously.
WENDIGO CHARACTERS
The rules below allow you to create Wendigo characters, either as a
starting character, or to turn your current favorite Ork PC into a Wendigo.
ORK HMHVV (Contracting Wendigoism)
Unlike Humans, who contract HMHVV only thru the loss of all essence from
another Vampire, a Wendigo can contract HMHVV by something as simple as a
scratch infected with the Ork Strain of HMHVV. Also unlike the Human
version of HMHVV, the Ork does not actually die before he is transformed,
and it is a longer, slower, and much more painful transformation than
Vampirism.
Once the disease is contracted, it may take anywhere from several days to a
month for the first signs of the disease to show, and often these are
dismissed at first as nothing more than an odd craving or grey hairs.
The first signs are often some or all of the following: An increased
appetite for meat (Often with odd cravings to bite friends or people who
are close by), increased hair growth, growth of hair all over the body, and
hair turning white. Also, often the infected Ork will lose his appetite
for any food other than meat, and will prefer the meat raw or cooked very
rare. This stage will last anywhere from a couple days to a couple weeks.
The length various from case to case. If the infected Ork gives in to his
urge to consume the flesh of a sentient being, he will manifest any
symptoms not seen yet and skip directly to Stage 3 of the disease.
The second Stage of the disease will include any of the above "symptoms"
that ddn't appear during the first stage, as well as a growing distaste for
any type of non-meat product, especially vegatables, or well cooked meat.
Also, the character will start to have almost irresistable urges to bite
anyone who stands close to him for any length of time. The charcter will
now be covered in fur, most of it a light grey or white, have sharper and
more elongated teeth, and look like a full wenedigo. He will also begin to
grow again, growing an additional foot or 2. This stage lasts until the
charcter succumbs to his hunger and he eats (meta)human flesh to essence
drain, or until the Wendigo dies from essence loss.
During Stage 2, some, if not all of the Wendigo's powers begin to activate,
and sometime before he starts to lose essence from hunger his body will
naturally regenerate itself as it reaches it's new state. All non-natural
parts of the new wendigo's body, including all bioware and cyberware, will
be forced from the Wendigo's body. This is a painful period for the Former
Ork, as his body is twisted into a new form.
Stage 3 happens when the Wendigo consumes flesh and drains essence through
this act for teh first time. At this point, it is believed that whatever
(meta)humanity the Wendigo retained is lost, and that the process of
transformation is complete, and irreversible. Whether or not the
transformation is reversible is a point of speculation among scientists and
parabiologists. However, the wendigo does not lose it's memories of it's
previous life.
There is currently no known cure the Ork Strain of HMHVV. If an infected
Ork is killed before he becomes a Wendigo (Stage 2 of the virus), then he
does not rise as a Wendigo, as the Vampire does.
Rules:
The Wendigo works similar to the way a Phys-Ad works, so that playing
something like a wendigo is somewhat feasible (but still very suseptible to
munchkinizing. Sorry, but there's no way to make a Wendigo that isn't a
munchkin, at least deep down inside.)
If the character is a new character, you pick your priorities. Race must
be priority (A), and depnending on whether you wanted a spellcasting
Wendigo or not, Magic would be (B) or (C), with (B) being for the
spellcaster. Magic can NOT be taken any lower than (C), as the character
is similar to a Phys Ad, even if he can cast spells. I would also suggest
using the more metahuman rule if using this with a regular group.
If you are using the SR Companion rules, You must spend 10 points for
Metahuman, and then additionally either 20 points for Magician or 15 points
for a Phys Ad (Even though he is technically not a Physical Adept).
Other than that, apply the following modifiers to the character. +3 body,
+2 Strength, -1 Intelligence. Note that these are exactly the same as the
Ork Character, except that the Wendigo does not suffer the -1 Charisma that
Orks do.
The last thing you do is pick your wendigo powers, which are detailed below.
If the character is a currfent PC getting transformed do to contracting
HMHVV, his natural, unmodified stats are used as the base for the Wendigo.
Any bioware or cyberware is lost during the transformation, so the
characters stats drop accordingly. He also gets to choose his starting
wendigo powers, though alternatively the GM can choose what powers he
starts off with. New wendigo's also get a +1 to their Charisma (Offsetting
the original -1 that Orks have).
Also, Wendigo Shamans can still cast spells, and their magic rating starts
as either a 6 for new characters, or as whatever the old PC's magic rating
was before he was turned into a Wendigo. Wendigos are almost always
magically inclined, and are almost always Shamans, usually of a predatory
totem such as Shark or Wolf.
OPTIONAL RULE: Depending on how a particular GM sees it, you may want to
be careful with spellcasting Wendigos who want to cast spells higher than
their magic rating, hoping to regenerate from physical damage. i suggest
either not allowing a wendigo shaman to be able to cast spells higher than
their magic rating, or if a wendigo takes physical damage from spellcasting
and regenerates, have him suffer stun damage instead. This prevents
Spellcasting Wendigos from getting overly powerful and simply regenrating
whenever they take physical damage.
The Wendigo gets three "Power Points", which is what he uses to buy his
Wendigo powers. All wendigo characters are new wendigo's, freshly infected
with HMHVV, thus they haven't fully developed most of there powers.
Also, Wendigos have a large amount of weaknesses. These vary from wendigo
to wendigo, and some even have few, if any, weaknesses. You can buy
Weaknesses, which will then give you more Power Points to spend on Powers.
This is similar to the Edges and Flaws from the Companion. Weaknesses can
ONLY be bought at character creation, and the bonus Power Points given by
them MUST be spent at that time. Any points not spent at this time are
lost. You may not "save" points or partial
point until the next "grade", or Wendigo Level.
Powers (Point cost)
Enhanced Strength (1)
Enhanced Hearing (.25)
Enhanced Smell (.25)
Enhanced Vision, low light (.25)
Enhanced Vision, distance (.25)
Essence Drain (*)
Immunity to Aging (.25)
Immunity to poison (.25)
Imm. to pathogens (.25)
Infection (1)
Regeneration (1/lvl)
Natural Claws (.5)
Heightened Speed (1 point)
Influence (1.5)
Fear (1)
Weaknesses (Points given)
Allergy to Sunlight, Mild (*) ((This may be upgraded)
Allergy to Sunlight, Moderate (.5)
Allergy to Sunlight, Severe (1)
Vulnerability to Iron (.25/level)
Unable to use Cyberware or Bioware (*)
Essence Loss (*)
Powers or Weaknesses marked with '*' are automatically gained. They
cannot be bought off, nor do they give any bonus.
Now, what do some of these do? Well, in general, I followed the book and
took there normal powers. Some I modified. The most noticable change is
in the regeneration. Having a 2+ regen on a d6 gets vulgar, so you make it
difficult to get. Each level improvs the roll by 1 number. the chart
below calculates it. Notice at level one, you do not have a roll. This is
simply a basic regen. If you are hit for a Deadly wound, you are dying.
You do not get to regen. However, If you are at below a deadly wound, then
you auto regen like normal. The cost is deliberately high so that all but
the most powerful wendigos instantly regenerate everything. Also, note that
stun damage DOES NOT regen. However, as this was much discussed just
recently on the list feel free to make this rule optional (you will
anyways, so I might as well give permission.)
Regeneration Chart
Level 1 Basic Regen, no roll for deadly wound.
Level 2 Roll of 6 to regen
Level 3 Roll of 5 to regen
Level 4 Roll of 4 to regen
Level 5 Roll of 3 to regen
Level 6 Roll of 2 to regen
Level 7 Roll of 1 to regen
Level 8 DOESN'T EXIST!!!
Also, the other thing I modified is the weakness to Iron. You can take it at
4 levels, nuisance, moderate, Serious, and deadly. This buys that allergy
at that level, as well as affects the damage code of any weapon made of
Iron or steel. Each level automatically stages the damage from such a
weapon up one notch (or 2 automatic successes, depending on how you
calculate it).
Ex. an iron pipe that does 6L damage normally, will do 6S damage instead
to someone with a level two allergy.
Also, A wendigo is unable to use cyberware or bioware, as it messes up his
essence and if he had the regeneration ability, it would automatically kick
the intruding piece out and replace it with a regenrated original.
Claws are simialar to cyber spurs and will do Str M physical damage.
Heightened Speed gives the wendigo +1d6 to initiative.
Lastly, the wendigo's has grades called Wendigo Levels, similar to Initiate
grades for Mages/Shamans/PA. The Karma costs are the same, except that
they do not have the quest type options available. They COULD, however,
group initiate with wendigo's of a higher grade. This "initiation"
basically consists of the Wendigo taking the time to learn about himself
and learn new powers or learn how to use his natural powers more easily.
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:13:52 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Barrier Spells
In-Reply-To: <199707310719.DAA20225@****.provide.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Justin Pinnow said on 3:16/31 Jul 97...
> I can't seem to find the passage in SR2 that states that barrier spells
> refresh on every action the casting mage has. Also, I know there has been
> some controversy over how these rules should be interpreted.
AFAIK there is no such passage, which is exactly what caused the
controversy...
> Can someone help me out so I can make a house rule about this before it
> comes up in my campaign (as I am sure it will soon enough)?
You're going to have to make up a house rule for this, I think. You have
the option of letting them refresh at a given time (on each of the
caster's actions, at the end of each turn, or whenever you want them to),
or you can rule that they degrade like normal barriers. The former makes
them more powerful, because in effect you have a self-sealing wall...
How about this: Barrier spells can be restored to their full rating by the
caster spending a Complex Action to do this. No test is required, only
complete concentration on the spell. This would count as an exclusive
activity (except if the Barrier spell itself is exclusive).
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:13:52 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <gurth@******.nl>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Force Points for Initiation (was: The Chromium Mage)
In-Reply-To: <19970730.220938.18295.3.lobo1@****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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John E Pederson said on 22:10/30 Jul 97...
> What Lady J was saying is that by making Initiation a gradual thing, a
> player is more likely to have their character initiate to higher grades
> than they would otherwise have bothered with, simply so that they can get
> all the metamagical abilities they want/need.
With which I have absolutely no problem -- it costs so much Karma that it
will either take a long time to reach a level that high, and/or leave most
other areas underdeveloped compared to the abilities of the others in the
group of PCs.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And you can try and you just might...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:33:45 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: -=/*{Chaszmyr}/*=- <d96403@***.LYNGBYES.DK>
Subject: Re: Catpeople
In-Reply-To: <199707301333.HAA02384@******>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07.33 30-07-97 -0600, you wrote:
>Ian White wrote:
>|
>| >Watch Warlock or Catpeople to get some evil ideas ;)
>| >
>| What are these two shows?? what country are you in??
>
>Catpeople is a movie about... There's this race of human/black panther
>shape changers. But their shapechange ability is kind of funky. If they
>have sex with a human they change into a panther a short time later. The
>only way they can change back to human form is to kill someone. If they
>have sex with eachother they don't change. Hows that for a weird premise?
>
>The main character is a young woman/catperson who was somehow raised by
>humans and doesn't know she has this ability (still a virgin). A male
>catperson who's looking for a mate has found her. She has a boyfriend
>that's caught up in the whole affair.
>
>Anyway, the movie is actually pretty well filmed and directed, and it has
>an awesome soundtrack by David Bowie.
>
>-David
Yup..thats the one, and if you havent seen it Ian, then youve missed
something BIG. Great movie, you gotta see it. And I'm from Denmark ;)
Chaszmyr
Check out my homepage on:
http://www.lyngbyes.dk/users/d96403
"That is not dead which can eternal lie,
Yet with strange aeons, even Death may die."
Howard P. Lovecraft
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 07:26:16 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: ReBoot Gaming Concept
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I was watching ReBoot this morning (I really wish they'd show it at a sane
hour, rather than 7AM... <Sigh>) and thought of an interesting idea to
throw at yuor deckers.
One of the concepts in the game is that these "games" get dropped in
"Mainframe", the city that all the characters live in. The characters can
enter the game by stepping into it (It appears as a HUGE glowing cube), or
are sometimes thrown into it if it falls onto them and they can't escape.
They are then forced to beat the game, and the "user", or else everyone in
the game gets deleted. There may also be some other negative side effects,
but I get to see the show so rarely, I'm still really sketchy on some of
the concepts.
Anyways, my point is, imagine if something similar happened inside the SR
Matrix? Whether this is just an odd side effect of so many Video games
that get played via the Matrix, or maybe even an AI having fun with random
deckers. Either way, it might make for an interesting one shot for your
decker, or even a random event that they get involved in from time to time.
But, the deckers have to beat the game or they get deleted (Dumped with
some mega shock and their decks fragged, or even killed).
<shrug>
Just an odd little idea I thought of...
Spike, you know more about ReBoot than I do... maybe you know what I mean
and can explain the concept of Reboot better than I can,...;] i know
you're a big fan...;]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 07:57:57 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Kristling the Weird <kristlingweird@*********.COM>
Organization: Founder & Supreme Dictator for Life, Lightmoon Project
Subject: Re: [OT] Cartoons (Was Re: Hallucinogens in SR)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Bull wrote:
>
> At 11:18 AM 7/29/97 -0400, Steven A. Collins wrote these timeless words:
> >->Has someone been watching Thundercats on Cartoon network again? :]
> >->
> >->I know I have, along with Voltron...;] Great shows... And Sci Fi is
> >->showing Transformers in the mornings now! :]
> >->
> >->Now I just need someone to start rerunning the old G.I.Joe cartoon :]
> >->
> >
> >AWWWW man don't tell me these things now I'm gonna have to get cable
> >again :( Which Voltron is it the one with the 5 cats or the one with
> >the 15 little ships. Oh well at least no on is running Star Blazers
> >or Force 5.
> >
> The 5 Lions (Voltron 1). The best of the lot...:] I wouldn't mind seeing
> Voltron 3 (The car Voltron) again, though...;]
I grew up on voltron. How many incarnations did THAT one go through
again?
>
> Which was Force 5? Going back that far I'd guess G-Force or Battle of the
> Planets, but with the way that show has changed names repeatedly over the
> years (Hell, Saban, the group responsible for the Mighty Hermaphromorphic
> Power Rangers got ahold of it and turned it into a piece of fluff called
> Eagle Riders recently), who knows...
>
> It also might have been another of Japan's 5-team shows (What are they
> called, Tinner?) that I never saw.
>
> I would LOVE to see someone (Either Sci Fi or Cartoon network, most likely)
> pick up Robotech and Starblazers. that would be VERY cool...;]
ROBOTECH! I got introduced to Anime via that show. Great storyline,
excellent story telling and a great sence of what fits. (I remember a
scene (charcter names escape me at this point) where a peite woman is
gonna blast some one with a bazooka, and she is comically, but very
realisticly (for anime, anywho) knocked back) How much does it suck that
Paliduim (AKA Power gamer central) has the RPG rights?
Saw one episode of Starblazers on tape....I want some more!
Other Japanese favourites include Ronan Warrors (Is that still on? I no
longer have cable), 3x3 Eyes (Yakamo!) some of Rama 1/2, Battle Angel,
the original Sailor Moon (if dic ever brings that back, thet'd better
not chop it to bits again!), Mai, Psykic Girl (manga, but still cool)
and the anime Street Fighter movie (MUCH better then the one with Jean-
Claude)
>
> >And Remember Knowing is half the Battle
> >
> Yo Joe!
<Moan> I just got that damn show of my mind, Bull!
>
> <grin>
>
--And then, we'll make s'mores, and then play Earthdawn, Shadowrun, and
Over the Edge. And maybe I'll let one of you try on my spiffy new hat.
Kristling "The Weird" Ravenwing
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/5482/
kristlingweird@*********.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:06:03 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] Apple Core (was: Re: The Chromium Mage)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970730201311.206f4e48@*****.com> from "Bull" at
Jul 30,
97 09:07:56 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|
|At 09:50 AM 7/30/97 -0500, Michael Broadwater wrote these timeless words:
|>At 05:52 AM 7/29/97 -0400, Bull wrote:
|>>At 10:41 PM 7/26/97 +0100, Spike wrote these timeless words:
|>>
|>>> an apple core....
|>>>
|>>Say no more...
|>>
|>Who's your friend?
|>
|HIM! (Bull says pointing at Spike)
Now that I understand the joke.....
Quaquauqasuqauqauqauqauqa!!!!!!
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:16:48 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Bandwagoneering...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970731133434.8442B-100000@*******.dialix.com.au>
from "Lady Jestyr" at Jul 31, 97 01:35:46 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|
|Just thought I'd leap on the bandwagon. I have just downloaded and
|installed ICQ, so if anyone feels like dropping me a line my UIN is
|2439321. :)
That's the second time today....
WTF IS ICQ and UIN???
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:23:31 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Joker Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <199707310434.AAA11332@*********.mindspring.com> from "MC23"
at
Jul 31, 97 00:34:03 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|
|Bull once dared to write,
|
|>Speaking of Joker, Batman, Comics,and the Body... Guess which villian
|>they're bringing back for the next Batman Movie? yup... The Joker, and we
|>saw his body at the end of the first movie...;]
|
|<scratching my head>
|
| IIRC, Scarecrow and Harlequin (from Batman:TAS) were supposed to be
|the villains.
But.... Harly isn't Harly without the Joker in tow.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 08:22:45 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: Joker Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <199707310434.AAA11332@*********.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> - MC23, who is now gearing up for the Batman Coup -
>
> Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva
> le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le
> Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le
> Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le
> Burton! Viva le Burton!
I only count 18. You're off by 5.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:26:04 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Opaque glass on the astral? (was Re: [SR3] Area Spells)
In-Reply-To: <970731005833_1348574574@*******.mail.aol.com> from "Nathan
Ray"
at Jul 31, 97 00:58:35 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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|>So THAT'S why glass is transparent.....
|>
|>:)
|
|So what about tinted glass? (hehe- can't see the target sitting in the limo?
|just switch to astral and draw a bead. +2 is better than blind fire <evil
|grin
Simple. Impurities reduce visibility, and the tint IS an impurity, or even a
plasic coating on the glass....
Either way.... You can't see through it...
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:30:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: help needed on researching campaign ideas.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970730235817.811B-100000@******.tamu.edu> from
"William Monroe Ashe" at Jul 31, 97 00:04:51 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|I was watching "Roar" the other night (so far a slow starter, hopefully it
What's Roar?
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 08:38:28 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Collins" <scollins@**.UML.EDU>
Subject: Re: help needed on researching campaign ideas.
In-Reply-To: <11817.199707311230@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 31 Jul 1997, Spike wrote:
->|
->|I was watching "Roar" the other night (so far a slow starter, hopefully it
->
->What's Roar?
->--
Ummmmm, I've only seen the pilot so far but it seems to be a quasi
historical television show about either Ireland or England during the
year 500 when the Romans invaded and the Celts who fought them. They
aren't doing much with historical acuracy on this one and the plot
seemed weak but it may get better.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:50:24 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: ReBoot Gaming Concept
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970731072822.1b971b00@*****.com> from "Bull" at
Jul 31,
97 07:26:16 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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|
|I was watching ReBoot this morning (I really wish they'd show it at a sane
|hour, rather than 7AM... <Sigh>) and thought of an interesting idea to
|throw at yuor deckers.
Brilliant programme!
|One of the concepts in the game is that these "games" get dropped in
|"Mainframe", the city that all the characters live in. The characters can
|enter the game by stepping into it (It appears as a HUGE glowing cube),
Not that easy. The game cube can only be entered from the underside, which
means it lands on a sector of the city, and anyone IN that sector is IN the
game. Everyone outside can do nothing.....
or
|are sometimes thrown into it if it falls onto them and they can't escape.
Everytime.
|They are then forced to beat the game, and the "user", or else everyone in
|the game gets deleted.
Nullified. There's a difference....
That's one of the main reasons Bob the guardian is there. To protect
Mainframes netizens from game cubes....
(And the viruses of course. Megabyte and Hexadecimal....)
|There may also be some other negative side effects,
|but I get to see the show so rarely, I'm still really sketchy on some of
|the concepts.
Basically, when the User wins a game, the entire sector of the city (people
and all) gets nullified. The buildings are smoking ruins, and the poeple get
turned into "Nulls". Wierd non-sentient little indestructable slugs...
|Anyways, my point is, imagine if something similar happened inside the SR
|Matrix? Whether this is just an odd side effect of so many Video games
|that get played via the Matrix, or maybe even an AI having fun with random
|deckers. Either way, it might make for an interesting one shot for your
|decker, or even a random event that they get involved in from time to time.
Rocky the rabbid racoon would be a blast!
(Season 3 episdoe 2)
|But, the deckers have to beat the game or they get deleted (Dumped with
|some mega shock and their decks fragged, or even killed).
I'd say fry their decks...
It's not easy to turn someone into an indestructable slug....
|Spike, you know more about ReBoot than I do... maybe you know what I mean
|and can explain the concept of Reboot better than I can,...;] i know
|you're a big fan...;]
Yep.... And episode 3 is on tonight at 4.40....
Can't wait....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:53:29 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: help needed on researching campaign ideas.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.96.970731083424.8398A-100000@*******.cs.uml.edu> from
"Steven A. Collins" at Jul 31, 97 08:38:28 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|On Thu, 31 Jul 1997, Spike wrote:
|
|->|
|->|I was watching "Roar" the other night (so far a slow starter, hopefully
it
|->
|->What's Roar?
|->--
|Ummmmm, I've only seen the pilot so far but it seems to be a quasi
|historical television show about either Ireland or England during the
|year 500 when the Romans invaded and the Celts who fought them. They
|aren't doing much with historical acuracy on this one and the plot
|seemed weak but it may get better.
|
Historical accuracy means little to morons in TV land.
I mean AD 500? They'd been in Britain well over 400 years by that point...
If they already hadn't left...
(We had a comedy series called Chelmsford 123 a few years ago. At least they
got the year right....)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 08:57:27 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Collins" <scollins@**.UML.EDU>
Subject: Re: Crossover ideas
In-Reply-To: <199707310725.DAA20387@****.provide.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 31 Jul 1997, Justin Pinnow wrote:
->Okay, I know this is cheesy, but I think it's completely realistic for some
->dark heros to appear in the SR universe to help fight against "big
->brother". Thus, I would like some advice as to how to create a
->Batman/Robin and a Spiderman for SR. It seems that Spiderman could easily
->be a Physad, while Batman and Robin could be mundanes.
->
->I think I have seen some ideas for Spiderman somewhere, but I can't recall
->where.
->
->Ideas? Flames? Suggestions? Compliments on my ingenuity? ;)
->
->Justin :)
->
In my campaign we have spiderman as a regular character. We have also
had at one time or another Wolverine, The Tick, Captian America, Ghost
Rider, and Frank Black (from the tv show Millenium). Spidey is a
physad with the geko crawl power taken from the geko crawl spell in
awakenings, the sixth sense power from awakenings, +1d6 reaction, and
1 or 2 minor powers(>1 magic). His web shooters are adapted from the
stealth grapple line in the SSC, and he has recently switched from the
red & blue suit to the Black one the the rest of the party's request.
of the others only Wolverine seemed to work well partially because
he's the only other one I'm familiar with.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:00:22 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <casanova@***.passagen.se>
From: Stefan <casanova@***.PASSAGEN.SE>
Subject: Re: Bandwagoneering...
In-Reply-To: <11776.199707311216@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> That's the second time today....
> WTF IS ICQ and UIN???
Well Spike ... ICQ is a IRC/EMAIL/FTP like program all in one for the
wintel platform and the UIN is you identification number.... for
more info I urge you to check out www.icq.com .... It is quite handy.
It is a good way of keeping track if your friends are online :)
1403212 is my UIN if anybody wanted to know that :)
/Stefan
____________________________________________
"Frag you and the datastream you came on!"
[Decker insult]
____________________________________________
E-MAiL ............ casanova@***.passagen.se
HoMEPAGE .. http://hem.passagen.se/casanova/
____________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 07:03:51 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: [OT] Joker Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <199707311224.GAA04973@******> from "Spike" at Jul 31,
97 01:23:31 pm
Content-Type: text
Spike wrote:
|
| But.... Harly isn't Harly without the Joker in tow.....
You ever see the "Girls Night Out" episode where Harly and Ivy team
up? "Boys, I'm gonna have to give you a spanking. And here's the
paddle!" That episode rocked!
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:11:09 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: [SR3] Area Spells
Steve Kenson writes
>
> The corp guard under full cover gets hit by the DM spell from the center of
> the spell's blast radius, just as if it were a grenade, so he gets no TN
> bonus for "cover" unless he has cover relative to the spell's "ground
zero"
> (ie, a barrier between him and the blast). The caster wasn't necessarily
> targeting the guard (since he didn't even know the guard was there) but the
> DM affects everyone in the area, just like a normal explosion.
fine that makes sense, SR2 just fails to answer the question though
leaving both interpretations open to validity.
> If the caster
> were throwing, say, Flame Volt, and knew there was someone hidden behind the
> wall and wanted to shoot through the specifically wall at him, then he would
> have to take the +8 "Blind Fire" modifier just like any other ranged
> attacker.
And taking the walls barrier rating off the spell as it tries to burn
through.
> >And clear up what the descriptions imply but the rules don't state
> >that the elemental is immune to the flamebomb even if the mage
> >casting it is astrally percepting because the spell is dual but
> >explodes on the physical plane only 'because the magical flame must
> >have a physical component'.
>
> Correct. In fact, even if the spell were Powerball, the elemental would not
> be affected. In my rough outline of the SR3 magic rules, a Physical spell
> will not affect a target with no physical body, like a spirit in astral form.
Do you mean physical or DM here, in SR the mage could hurt the
elemental with a powerball if he's pecepting by aiming at the astral
plane, though i believe the folks on the physical would then be
immune.
> So, yes, even if the caster were using astral perception, the flame bomb
> wouldn't affect the elemental at all.
>
> >It might also be worth making
> >the 'no projecting and sustaining spells' rule clearer.
>
> Basically, as I see it, leaving and returning to your body are Exclusive
> activities, so you cannot be Sustaining any spells, or performing any other
> magical activities, on the Action when you astrally project or return to your
> physical body. Both actions take a lot of concentration. Not only that but
> (IMHO) you also cannot perform other Exclusive activities (casting Exclusive
> spells or summoning spirits) while Astral Projecting since it is also a
> "magical activity" and thererfor prevents the performance of Exclusive
feats.
> Astral Perception is a more passive activity, and so does not affect
> Exclusive actions. You can cast a spell, then switch to astral perception
> while sustaining it, but if you then want to astral project, you have to drop
> the spell in order to do it.
>
Fine.
No exclusive spells while projecting, ouch as the rules have stood in
SR2 you have (IMO) only been banned from casting or sustaining other
spells while casting/sustaining an exculsive spell meaning exclusive
spells could be anchored etc.
The rule i was noting as not that clear in SR2 though is the one that
bans people from sustaining spells at all while astrally projecting,
i hadn't meant 'project/return to body' to come into it. (wonders of
the same term meaning two things).
> >And while we
> >are at it clear up the effect of initiate shielding and damaging
> >manipulations, does it as i belive rasie the effective body but not
> >the 'fixed' TN4 which is the same as spell defence, or does it plain
> >rasie TN's in which case initiates with some shielding left are
> >utterly immune to magic (unless the rule stating you need net
> >successes to hurt peple with magic is revoked, which is a house rule
> >i use).
>
> Here I must disagree. Although DMs create an actual physical medium to damage
> their targets, this matter or energy is still sustained and directed by magic
> and, therefore, can be deflected by magical defenses (such as Spell Defense
> and Shielding).
Yes i agree it can be defended against with magical defenses but.
As things stand (GR2) there are two interpretations.
mage with body 6 and 6 points of shielding gets hit by a damaging
manipulation and decides to use his shielding to block it. (i assume
he is not also allowed to use his combat pool to dodge at the same
time, though the DM being a ranged attack he could have opted to
dodge using combat pool). He certainly gets to roll 12 dice to
resist, the rules are vauge on wether the attacker now needs 4's or
10's (assuming no other modifiers) to hurt him.
Given that as the rules stand 6 points of shielding is easy to come
by (and given a power focus or a grade or 2 even after using some
dice for attack/drain) and if the mage has any sense hes also in
partial cover DM's become pitiful as it is all too easy to put the TN
to hit above 12 (if shielding gets added to it) while keeping the
resistance TN below 6 (given sensible force spells and armour).
> However, Shielding does not necessarily make an Initiate invulnerable to
> magic. Sure, if an Initiate goes full-defensive and pours all of his Magic
> Pool into Shielding, then he's going to be very hard to affect with spells,
> but that's as it should be, IMHO. There are still several other factors:
>
true.
> 1) DMs, unlike combat spells, must be reduced like normal combat damage. The
> Spell Resistance Test for a DM is actually a Damage Resistance Test, so the
> Initiate is going to NEED those extra dice if he wants to reduce the damage
> of a Flame Bomb with 2-3 successes down to nothing.
>
sure, i have tried to make t more clear above that the question of
'dice' was not a problem.
> 2) I allow other Initiates to use Centering to offset the penalties of an
> opponent's Shielding, focusing their power through the shield. I don't know
> if this will find it's way into the rules, but, as I see it, Shielding
> imposes a TN penalty, and Centering allows an Initiate to overcome TN
> penalties, so...
Fine. I have been regarding it as increasing the attribute and
therefore counting as base TN but what you can and cannot centre
against is very open as things stand to GM interpretation. Being
allowed to use this against that +2drain TN for casting 2 spells at
the same time would be VERY nice :)
However if the TN gets to 12 you are not going to be getting it down
with centring to any significant degree unless you are pretty darn
high grade initiate, though that -grade to TN is a really good reason
for getting to a seriously high grade :) its very useful.
> 3) Lastly, a magician up against a heavily shielding Initiate simply has to
> be SMARTER. I'm reminded of the scene from Bob Charrette's second book
> (CHOOSE YOUR ENEMIES CAREFULLY, I believe) where the evil Archdruid confronts
> Hart and sneers how his shielding and anti-bullet barrier make him
> invulnerable and Hart just says "whatever" and blows the floor out from
under
> him. He hits the dirt, stunned, dropping his spells and defenses, and she
> shoots him dead. Flame bomb can't get through the guy's shielding? Bet it can
> take down the roof above his head, then...
Ah yes the old solution, when all else fails use the scenery :).
Something at which AD&D actually is quite good at teaching when you
meet monsters that are immune to nearly everything.
The problem i find with spell defenses being stupendously good is it
encourages higher power spells which makes the gap between a mundanes
and a magicians resitance to magic ever larger. One of the reasons i
force everyone (house rule) to stage manabolts and the like all the
way down is to discourage attempts to acquire force 10 spells all the
time becasue you need them to insure targets you hit stay hit as then
the mundanes actually stand a fighting chance against magic.
I have in practice noticed a tnedency of magicians who expect things
to come the other way to save about 6 dice for defense, as +6 TN
really does slow down the manabolts. I have in games with experienced
characters found this much shelding rather too easy to produce while
still throwing effective spells and taking no drain. Sure having to
save that much really take the bite out of the offense but it is
still effective (just not quite as deadly). Yes i have seen TN's over
24 on occasion thanks shielding but not once stuff started going both
ways usually because the initiate doing it was either an observer or
was busy using his 'before combat starts' pool refresh having not had
a chance to use the dice on something else yet.
> Whew, that's enough thinking for me at 1:00 AM. I'm outta here...
>
Don't blame you, not bad.
Sorry the reply took a while but taking long weekends and the mail
rate on this list are not a god combination for achieving an empty
mailbox :)
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 07:13:42 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Full of Life (Cooling Down)
In-Reply-To: <199707310323.VAA05491@******> from "J. Keith Henry" at Jul
30,
97 11:21:55 pm
Content-Type: text
J. Keith Henry wrote:
|
[snip]
|
| > Got it?
|
| Dave, I had it long before you read it.
<picks up crowbar and pries his foot out of his mouth>
sorry about that. i'm in kind of a shity mood (work related) and you
became the target of my frustrations. i hope you will accept my
humble apology. and my apology extends to the members of this list
as well.
I also want to thank you for replying to my BS post in a calm
rational manner.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 07:16:41 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Initiation
In-Reply-To: <199707310332.VAA05608@******> from "Wendy Wanders,
Subject 117" at Jul 30, 97 11:28:40 pm
Content-Type: text
losthalo wrote:
|
| You could, for simplitity's sake, include something in Gradual
| Initiation: the Magic gain is not automatic either, it's one of your options,
| you have to take that in place of a new Metamagic ability. :) *shrug*
<BEGMG> Well, I like it :) I don't know if my players will go for
it though.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:28:56 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
Gurth wrote:
>Steve Kenson wrote:
>> Also, IMHO, there already is a "Conjuring Pool" of sorts in SR2. Your
>> Conjuring Skill dice can be split up between the Summoning Test and the
Drain
>> Test in any way desired, just like Magic Pool for spells.
>
>Erm... Steve, where did you get this idea? Some upcoming book you haven't
>told us about? SRII doesn't mention it in the conjuring rules, and neither
>could I find it in the Grimoire or Awakenings. Maybe I just didn't look
>where I should, but I've never heard of being able to split Conjuring dice
>like this.
Hmmm... it might be a house rule or a 1st edition leftover, but that's how
I've always played it. I'll go looking for a reference later when I have some
time and see if it came from somewhere or if I just made it up.
If it is a house rule or something out of my head, I think it would be a good
thing for SR3 : )
Steve
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:29:04 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Auras
I will proceed these comments by saying I am talking solely about how I would
like to see astral space IDEALLY work, not necessarily how it works at
present. The present system has trouble with many of these questions, which
is why I have suggested some of the changes regarding astral space...
David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG> wrote:
>Having gotten involved in the current physical/astral discussion with
>Steve I just realized that I'm not to clear on exactly what an Aura
>is.
An aura is a halo of "light" seen around an object from astral space using
the astral senses. It contains information about the object, including its
general health, emotions, magical ability and so forth.
>Is an aura a "physical" component of an object? Or is a
>representative quality?
The latter. The "physical component" (astrally tangible component) is the
astral form or astral body, which is distinct from the aura.
>Can an aura directly affect something, or be directly affected? Can
>it ever be targeted? Is it something.. oh, for lack of a better
>word, real?
Can the aura be targeted? Yes, sorcery can interact with it in certain ways,
as defined by the spell targeting system. Is it ever tangible? No. Is it
real? No more or less real than a hologram or other intangible construct.
>Or, is it like... (geez, I shoulda paid attention in philosophy
>class) a projected image? Like going to see a movie. The images on
>the screen aren't "real" (I coulda said "reel", but I held back :)
>The images are a reflection of the light that's hitting the screen.
It would be more accurate (IMHO) to describe an aura as more of the "astral
shadow" of something physical, cast into the astral plane. It can be sensed,
but it has no substance.
>If an aura is "real" then it causes a host of problems for me.
>
>If an aura is a projected image (and I don't even want to know how it
>works) then many of my problems are solved. Is aura is immaterial
>and cannot affect, or be affected by, either physical or astral
>entities? Is it merely a reflection of an object that appears in
>astral space?
Auras are immaterial and cannot touch or be touched by astral forms. It is,
as you say, merely a reflection or shadow of an object that the object casts
into astral space.
Steve
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:29:07 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
"J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM> writes:
>The rules are understandable, NOT clear. In that form I completely agree
>with you. However, the concept of making a Passive Aura interactable on the
>Astral Plane opens to many doors for abuse, even if it is only for a single
>living thing.
Perhaps there is a misunderstanding of my proposal here, if so, I apologize.
Clarity is one of the goals I am going for. To restate:
I am IN NO WAY proposing astral forms have the ability to attack those
things/beings not present on the astral plane. A mundane is a mundane and is
invulnerable to astral attack. If anything, I would like to see LESS
interaction between the physical and astral planes.
What I am suggesting is making the division between "active astral form" and
"intangible mundane aura/astral shadow" more clear-cut and distinct.
Something either exists on the astral, affecting it and therefore subject to
astral attack in return, or it does not, is intangible on the astral but
likewise cannot affect astral things.
The whole dual-natured ivy thing is just this: the awakened plants act as a
Ward IN EVERY WAY. This means they have a Rating, which is used in astral
combat (against intruding astral projectors or spells cast their way). The
plants are dual-natured, therefore astrally active like a pereiving
character. The "spirit" or astral form of the plants IS aggressive and does
fight in astral combat. They don't just sit there waiting to be killed any
more than a ward (or any other type of astral barrier) does.
For example, a corp research building is protecting by a Rating 6 para-ivy
grown over its walls. An astral projector with Sorcery 6 flys up and tries to
pass through. The ivy attacks. Both sides roll Astral Combat Tests using
their dice vs. TN 4. If the ivy gets more successes, it does combat damage
like a Barrier, or 6M, if the projector wins, his successes reduce the ivy's
Rating. If the projector wins the combat (ie, reduces the ivy's Rating to 0)
he is able to pass through, but "the barrier remains intact against all other
intruders." (SRII, "Barriers," p.147) just like a normal astral barrier.
If you want to prevent astral intrusion entirely (like ivy does in the
present system) just give the para-ivy ward a Rating of something like 12 or
more and tell the projector that when they assense the barrier. It would be
suicide to try breaking through it. If they still want to try, they deserve
what they get.
In my proposal, the same example is true with FAT Bacteria, alchemically
prepared concrete, wards, active hermetic circles, medicine lodges or any
other type of astral barrier. They all work the same.
Steve
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:29:10 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Gradual Initiation
<lots of talk about gradual initiation snipped>
FWIW, my thoughts on the topic:
Someone mentioned you just don't get the kind of knowledge/ability Initiation
gives you in a single ephipany. In fact, that's EXACTLY how many people think
Initiation works, it's a quantum leap to a new level of magical
understanding. However, it is not necessarily condusive to game balance.
Likewise, gaining one metamagical ability per grade does seem to encourage
rapid Initiation in order to get all of the goodies, as Lady Jestyr pointed
out.
How about this: Each metamagical ability has its own Special Skill associated
with it. These skills cannot be higher than the Initiate's Sorcery Skill and
start out at 0. When a character becomes a Grade 0 Initiate, he must learn
the Metamagic Skills in order to use Metamagic. Since they are Special Skills
(ie, treated as Specializations), they're not TOO expensive to learn and the
Initiate can pick and choose which abilities to learn and how fast depending
on the amount of Karma he wants to spend. This has the net effect of limiting
Metamagic to about the same learning curve as one ability per grade but
allows an Initiate to stop at Grade 0 if desired and learn all of the
metamagical skills before moving on.
Maybe make passive Masking a freebie and just require a skill for active
Masking.
Example: Talon has just become a Grade 0 Initiate. He most wants to do
Centering and Shielding and has saved up some Karma for them. He buys Latin
Chant (Centering) at 3 (6 Karma) and Shielding at 3 (also 6 Karma). He now
has 3 dice for Centering Tests and 3 dice for his Shielding pool. He can't do
Quickening, Dispelling, Anchoring or Masking because he doesn't have those
skills yet. If Talon later wants to increase his Centering or Shielding
Skills he cannot raise them over the value of his Sorcery Skill.
How 'bout that?
Steve
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:29:13 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
> I would suggest you come at this from another direction. The
>"immovable object" problem is a major plot device for Shadowrun's sister
>game Earthdawn. Earthdawn's Kaers featured promently in for the survival
>against the Scourge. Although the rules between the two are almost
>nonexistant the game logic is fairly unchanged. By your suggested ruling
>there would have been no need to bury so many of the Kaers in the ground.
>Any new interpretations on the existing game philosophy will be somewhat
>reflected in Earthdawn as well if it's going to fly.
The kaers in ED were not just holes in the ground, they were reinforced with
the True Elements, which are astrally active in Shadowrun terms. Putting them
underground beneath lots of stone and earth was designed to provide a barrier
to the PHYSICAL horrors who might come a'knockin, the astral barrier was
provided by the True Elements and the wards created by the Theran Rites of
Protection and Passage woven into the physical structure of the kaer.
That's one explaination that works. So I don't think the proposed concept
would mess up any of the logic behind ED, but that's up to the FASA
developers to decide, not me.
Steve
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:28:58 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
>"J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM> writes:
>In a message dated 97-07-30 11:18:03 EDT, TalonMail@***.COM (Steve Kenson)
>writes:
>> On astral security: Having astrally active security is also more
>consistent,
>> IMHO. If you have dual-natured ivy protecting your building, the GM can
>> treat
>> it just like a Ward: assign it a Rating and away you go. Unlike the
>dormant,
>> immovable ivy of SR2, this barrier can be killed in astral combat, but it
>> will fight back like any other barrier.
>>
>I had to enter into this one. You can't engage the "ivy" in Astral Combat,
>as the living signature isn't "active" on the astral level. Yeah, this is
>part of that Metaphysical Hairsplitting that was mentioned in the part I
>snipped (sorry), but there is a BIG difference between active astral
presence
>and passive astral presence. If you start doing the "dual nature" options
>for living beings, then Astral Combat becomes INCREDIBLY dangerous.
I'm trying to say (poorly, aparently) that under the system I propose there
are only active astral forms and the intangible reflections of material
things. The theoretical awakened ivy in question would be a dual-being with a
Force Rating on the astral and able to engage in astral combat like any other
astral barrier. It's no different than the corp having a ward around their
building, just cheaper to maintain.
If you're asking if I intend to make more (meta)humans astrally active, the
answer is no. I am suggesting ways to have the same (or similar) astral
security as there is now without the "immovable living object" problem that I
feel creates too many exceptions and special-case scenarios in the present
system.
Steve
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:29:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
>"J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM> writes:
>>Steve Kenson writes:
>> That's my whole problem with FAB: the character can't do thing one about
>it.
>> As both a GM and a player I dislike situations that are: "OK, this
>happens,
>> but there's absolutely nothing you can do about it, so don't even try."
An
>> astral form trapped on all sides by FAB is doom and can't do ANYTHING
>about
>> it. It's like a perfect death-trap. As a player I would find that
>incredible
>> unfair and frustrating.
>
>Actually, that has happened to me once while playing Binder, my favechar.
> However, by accident, I found a way out. I was going to do a Quest of True
>Aura, trying to find any loopholes in the fab walls/cloud. In so doing, I
>noticed the FAB had no metaplanar signature. Way out became very simple. A
>Quest of True Aura on myself (hence, my body), and when I came back to body,
>I was out of the confinement (flipped out the mage).
Interesting idea, but:
"To begin an astral quest, the character must astrally project onto a
metaplane. Initiates with the ability to use astral projection can do this
under their own power. Others must gain access to astral space through a free
spirit using the astral gateway power (p.79). Either way, THE CHARACTER MUST
PROJECT DIRECTLY ONTO THE METAPLANE [emphasis mine]. He can make no side
trips to the etheric plane first." (Grimoire II, p.93-94)
To go the the metaplanes, you have to go there directly from leaving your
body. If you're wandering around the etheric (lower astral) and you get
trapped by FAB, you can't project onto a metaplane to escape, at least not
according to the rules as presently written.
> For the non-initiated, how about this
>for an option. Or rather, two options.
>
>If you have an elemental or spirit, have it support your "astral weight" and
>go to the home metaplanes of said being for a service. Then come back as an
>additional service. Can't be done with watchers, but hey, it's a way.
>
>If not, try "yanking your way" back down your own Astral Connection. It
>could be treated as a "barrier vs. strength" roll. Living things have a
"per
>se" barrier rating, if a way to oppose them can be found. If anything, give
>it (the FAB wall) the barrier rating equal to the security system rating of
>the place. Things can slip through the smallest cracks.
Interesting options as well, BUT my point is there is no way to escape from a
completely sealed FAB containment grid AS THE RULES ARE PRESENTLY WRITTEN.
All of the options you suggest are completely new ideas not currently in the
rules. Within the scope of the existing rules, FAB is completely invulnerable
to astral reprisal and there's no way to get out of it. The only potential
loophole depends on whether or not the projecting character can summon a
spirit to help him out, which I admit is nebulous.
>> >Physical security guards wandering through clouds of FAB are
>> >suddenly vulnerable to area effect spells cast from the astral.
>
>THAT is entirely to munchkin provoking.
>
>> Under the Spell Targeting system I propose (see previous post), an astral
>> form could ground a spell through the FAB cloud to kill it, but the
>mundane
>> guards are completely safe because they are not valid targets and cannot
>be
>> affected by any spells cast from the astral. Theoretically, the
>spellcaster
>> might be able to transform the FAB into something dangerous or toxic, but
>> for
>> the drain that would be involved (up in the Serious-Deadly range) why
take
>> the risk?
>> Steve
>
>My end statement is this Steve. Try and look for more options. Never give
>up and go for what you know. Try and learn something new. The experience
>alone has it's merits. Changing the rules for Astral Signature/Presence
just
>because of FAB is entirely out of proportion.
Thanks for the advice. I am certainly exploring all of the options, and the
final decision will be made by FASA, not me. I would like to see some aspect
of SR magic made more consistent rather than layered with additional
special-case rules, however.
Steve
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:30:05 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] Joker Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <199707311303.HAA07250@******> from "David Buehrer" at Jul
31,
97 07:03:51 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|Spike wrote:
||
|| But.... Harly isn't Harly without the Joker in tow.....
|
|You ever see the "Girls Night Out" episode where Harly and Ivy team
|up? "Boys, I'm gonna have to give you a spanking. And here's the
|paddle!" That episode rocked!
There was also the episode where she was released from Archam having been
cured, went into a shop to buy a dress, and took it without them removing
the security tag......
Which led to her thinking she was going to be arrested, kidnapped someone,
etc,etc,etc....
She's OK for the occasional 30 minute episode, but she needs The Joker to
bounce off for a full film, I think....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:37:40 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Joker Syndrome [OT]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Brett Borger once dared to write,
>> - MC23, who is now gearing up for the Batman Coup -
>>
>> Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva
>> le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le
>> Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le
>> Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le
>> Burton! Viva le Burton!
>
>I only count 18. You're off by 5.
That was my error, but it still shows the Law of Fives is in effect.
B>]#
Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le
Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton!
Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le
Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton!
Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton!
Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton! Viva le Burton!
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 08:43:59 -0500
Reply-To: swordman@******.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Swordman <swordman@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Joker Syndrome
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
MC23 wrote:
>
> IIRC, Scarecrow and Harlequin (from Batman:TAS) were supposed to be
> the villains.
I wanted Scarecrow as villan right after I saw the first movie, IMHO I
felt Burton would be able to generate some real dark, nightmarish, fears
induced by psychotropic drugs! But Schumaker going to make something
more like hi-tech holograms.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:45:03 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <casanova@***.passagen.se>
From: Stefan <casanova@***.PASSAGEN.SE>
Subject: Little Green Men
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Well so the runners have fleed into the shadows again .. (ie back 2
school) ... Time to construct a new adventure ....
Well I heard something about that it was the 50th anniversary of the
Roswell incident this summer and well that would mean that 100th is
in 2047 ... So since I am already at 2057 and I don't know of any
time travell technology I guess I have to celebrate the 110th
anniversary with my runners :)
So anybody had any adventures with Aliens and when I say aliens I
mean the little grey men with large black eyes .. not the Horrors
even thou they might be alien. Anybody have any good stats, powers
and alien gizmos ?
Does Area51 still exists in 2057 and who ownes it ?
At present time I have to possible storylines ...
1. Another UFO crashes ... And a Megacorp wants the technology
or
2. A few goverment and military men wants to return the US to its
former glory and they wanna do it with the help of the Alien
technology. And well naturally the MegaCorp would wanna put an
end to this since a powerful goverment would be a pain in there side.
Well I am open for input since I have some months to construct it ...
I was planning to run it at the same time as Super Tuesday takes
place but as an in between adventure ... To much politics is bad for
you and the runners have been seen on the telly now one time to many
time to relax and take a vaccation ....
/Stefan
____________________________________________
"Frag you and the datastream you came on!"
[Decker insult]
____________________________________________
E-MAiL ............ casanova@***.passagen.se
HoMEPAGE .. http://hem.passagen.se/casanova/
____________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:45:07 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Gradual Initiation
In-Reply-To: <970731092909_-838204755@*******.mail.aol.com> from "Steve
Kenson" at Jul 31, 97 09:29:10 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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|Example: Talon has just become a Grade 0 Initiate. He most wants to do
|Centering and Shielding and has saved up some Karma for them. He buys Latin
|Chant (Centering) at 3 (6 Karma) and Shielding at 3 (also 6 Karma). He now
|has 3 dice for Centering Tests and 3 dice for his Shielding pool. He can't do
|Quickening, Dispelling, Anchoring or Masking because he doesn't have those
|skills yet. If Talon later wants to increase his Centering or Shielding
|Skills he cannot raise them over the value of his Sorcery Skill.
I quite liked the idea someone came up with about having to do massive
amounts of research or go on an astral quest to gain knowledge of your new
powers.
The final upshot of all that could be the same as yours, but the means of
getting there has more depth....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:02:26 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Kristling the Weird <kristlingweird@*********.COM>
Organization: Founder & Supreme Dictator for Life, Lightmoon Project
Subject: Re: Eating the bad guy;
MIME-Version: 1.0
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William Monroe Ashe wrote:
>
> Hey now that Bull's a wendigo, eating the bad guy takes on a whole new
> meaning.
>
> "Go ahead kill me ... hey whats the furball doing" says badguy as Bull
> puts on lobster bib and gets out large knife and fork (a-la Wiley Coyote)
>
> "Fine dining." replies Bull.
>
Other lines:
"I can't eat him. I have enough titanium in my diet as is anyway."
Insult:
"I can't eat him. I'm a strict carnivore."
--
Kristling The Weird
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/5482/
kristlingweird@*********.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 08:46:53 -0500
Reply-To: swordman@******.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Swordman <swordman@******.NET>
Subject: Re: help needed on researching campaign ideas.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Spike wrote:
>
> |
> |I was watching "Roar" the other night (so far a slow starter, hopefully it
>
> What's Roar?
> --
It's a pretty good series on Fox about 5th century Irish Celts.
It's so good in fact it should last about half a seson before Fox
cancels it so it could be picked up by a another net work.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:42:42 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: help needed on researching campaign ideas.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:30 PM 7/31/97 +0100, Spike wrote these timeless words:
>|
>|I was watching "Roar" the other night (so far a slow starter, hopefully it
>
>What's Roar?
>
Roar is a weak attempt at a fantasy show, IMNSHO it's basically
Hercules/Xena?Robin Hood without the humour. In other words, boring with
some really bad special effects and serious Historical Errors.
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:42:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: ReBoot Gaming Concept
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:50 PM 7/31/97 +0100, Spike wrote these timeless words:
>|
>|I was watching ReBoot this morning (I really wish they'd show it at a sane
>|hour, rather than 7AM... <Sigh>) and thought of an interesting idea to
>|throw at yuor deckers.
>
>Brilliant programme!
>
I agree... unfortunately I've onlyu seen maybe a dozen or so episodes over
the last year or so... It's on at a REALLY bad time for me... Morning...;]
[SNIP Spike correcting my mistakes:]]
Ok... Like I said, I was guessing, so...;]
>|Anyways, my point is, imagine if something similar happened inside the SR
>|Matrix? Whether this is just an odd side effect of so many Video games
>|that get played via the Matrix, or maybe even an AI having fun with random
>|deckers. Either way, it might make for an interesting one shot for your
>|decker, or even a random event that they get involved in from time to time.
>
>Rocky the rabbid racoon would be a blast!
>(Season 3 episdoe 2)
>
Hell, even if you just took some of today's games, you could have a blast.
Imagine the players getting Stuck in Super Mario, a Street Fighter/Mortal
kombat type game, or Doom...;]
>|But, the deckers have to beat the game or they get deleted (Dumped with
>|some mega shock and their decks fragged, or even killed).
>
>I'd say fry their decks...
>It's not easy to turn someone into an indestructable slug....
>
Cool, that would work...;]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:42:38 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Cartoons (Was Re: Hallucinogens in SR)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:57 AM 7/31/97 -0400, Kristling the Weird wrote these timeless words:
>> The 5 Lions (Voltron 1). The best of the lot...:] I wouldn't mind seeing
>> Voltron 3 (The car Voltron) again, though...;]
>I grew up on voltron. How many incarnations did THAT one go through
>again?
>
Ummm, to the best of my knowledge, 3. Voltron 1 was the lions, and Voltron
3 was the cars. Voltron 2 was never shown in the US as it was deemed too
violent for children. It was three large robots that combined into a huge
six armed robot.
>ROBOTECH! I got introduced to Anime via that show. Great storyline,
>excellent story telling and a great sence of what fits. (I remember a
>scene (charcter names escape me at this point) where a peite woman is
>gonna blast some one with a bazooka, and she is comically, but very
>realisticly (for anime, anywho) knocked back) How much does it suck that
>Paliduim (AKA Power gamer central) has the RPG rights?
>
I, sadly, never really got to see much Robotech. We lived out in teh
middle of nowhere when i was a kid and didn;t get the station that aired
Robotech very well. The few episodes I got to see were really fuzzy and
staticy...
>Saw one episode of Starblazers on tape....I want some more!
>Other Japanese favourites include Ronan Warrors (Is that still on? I no
>longer have cable), 3x3 Eyes (Yakamo!) some of Rama 1/2, Battle Angel,
>the original Sailor Moon (if dic ever brings that back, thet'd better
>not chop it to bits again!), Mai, Psykic Girl (manga, but still cool)
>and the anime Street Fighter movie (MUCH better then the one with Jean-
>Claude)
>
Heh... Some VERY good anime...;] Outlanders is another great one if you
like Comedy.:]
>> >And Remember Knowing is half the Battle
>> >
>> Yo Joe!
><Moan> I just got that damn show of my mind, Bull!
>
Sorry...;]
Bull-the-Ork-Decker-who-thinks-it-might-be-time-to-let-this-thread-die :}
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 07:59:53 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Bandwagoneering...
In-Reply-To: <199707311259.OAA00688@******.passagen.se>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 15:00 7/31/97 +0000, you wrote:
>> That's the second time today....
>
>> WTF IS ICQ and UIN???
>
>Well Spike ... ICQ is a IRC/EMAIL/FTP like program all in one for the
>wintel platform and the UIN is you identification number.... for
>more info I urge you to check out www.icq.com .... It is quite handy.
And AFAIK it's Win95/NT only, so Spikey can't use it.
It's much crummier than IRC anyways.. it's useful to keep track of people,
but not much fun to chat with.
-Adam
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
From The Jury's Bench: http://www.interware.it/shadowrun/channel
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:09:29 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <casanova@***.passagen.se>
From: Stefan <casanova@***.PASSAGEN.SE>
Subject: Re: ReBoot Gaming Concept
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970731094523.24a764da@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> >|I was watching ReBoot this morning (I really wish they'd show it at a sane
> >|hour, rather than 7AM... <Sigh>) and thought of an interesting idea to
> >|throw at yuor deckers.
Yep it is an amuzing series ... It was on a good time here
unfortunatly everybody spoke swedish :)
> >|Anyways, my point is, imagine if something similar happened inside the SR
> >|Matrix? Whether this is just an odd side effect of so many Video games
> >|that get played via the Matrix, or maybe even an AI having fun with random
> >|deckers. Either way, it might make for an interesting one shot for your
> >|decker, or even a random event that they get involved in from time to time.
> >
> >Rocky the rabbid racoon would be a blast!
> >(Season 3 episdoe 2)
> >
> Hell, even if you just took some of today's games, you could have a blast.
> Imagine the players getting Stuck in Super Mario, a Street Fighter/Mortal
> kombat type game, or Doom...;]
Stuck in Doom ? On some gameing sessions it feels like that
all the time ... :)
> >|But, the deckers have to beat the game or they get deleted (Dumped with
> >|some mega shock and their decks fragged, or even killed).
> >I'd say fry their decks...
> >It's not easy to turn someone into an indestructable slug....
Well this sounds like a really cool idea for an adventure ... Mayby
it is just me and my runners but in our group the decker is sort of a
weak character since he is more interested in brains than muscles
and guns.
What if all the runners was sucked into the matix and all of a sudden
they would have to relay way more on the decker to survive. That
would be really neat ... :) Hhee LOL! I am feeling a really evil
streak commin' on :)
Have all the other characters gear and skills converted to "Matrix"
abilitites and skills even thou they ought to be inferior to the real
thing the decker has. It would just be great fun to have the decker
be the power character for once :) Ohboy are the street samurais
going to be scared now :)
Mr. Johnson could demand a meet in the Matrix resulting in that
everyone has to ride along with the decker to be present and oopus
all of a sudden they are sucked into a really bad sector :)
/Stefan
____________________________________________
"Frag you and the datastream you came on!"
[Decker insult]
____________________________________________
E-MAiL ............ casanova@***.passagen.se
HoMEPAGE .. http://hem.passagen.se/casanova/
____________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:11:39 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <casanova@***.passagen.se>
From: Stefan <casanova@***.PASSAGEN.SE>
Subject: Re: Bandwagoneering...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970731075953.006dd8ac@****.lis.ab.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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> >> WTF IS ICQ and UIN???
> >
> >Well Spike ... ICQ is a IRC/EMAIL/FTP like program all in one for the
> >wintel platform and the UIN is you identification number.... for
> >more info I urge you to check out www.icq.com .... It is quite handy.
>
> And AFAIK it's Win95/NT only, so Spikey can't use it.
> It's much crummier than IRC anyways.. it's useful to keep track of people,
> but not much fun to chat with.
I never said it was good Adam ... just handy :) It is a wintel
proggy so how good can it really be ? :) It is way crummier than IRC
but as you said it is useful for keeping track of people ...
Well I can only use it in school ... And frankly I am glad that I
can't run it on my Amiga ...
/Stefan
____________________________________________
"Frag you and the datastream you came on!"
[Decker insult]
____________________________________________
E-MAiL ............ casanova@***.passagen.se
HoMEPAGE .. http://hem.passagen.se/casanova/
____________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:38:28 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Kristling the Weird <kristlingweird@*********.COM>
Organization: Founder & Supreme Dictator for Life, Lightmoon Project
Subject: Re: Gradual Initiation
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Steve Kenson wrote:
>
> <lots of talk about gradual initiation snipped>
>
> FWIW, my thoughts on the topic:
>
> Someone mentioned you just don't get the kind of knowledge/ability Initiation
> gives you in a single ephipany. In fact, that's EXACTLY how many people think
> Initiation works, it's a quantum leap to a new level of magical
> understanding. However, it is not necessarily condusive to game balance.
True
>
> Likewise, gaining one metamagical ability per grade does seem to encourage
> rapid Initiation in order to get all of the goodies, as Lady Jestyr pointed
> out.
Also true.
>
> How about this: Each metamagical ability has its own Special Skill associated
> with it. These skills cannot be higher than the Initiate's Sorcery Skill and
> start out at 0. When a character becomes a Grade 0 Initiate, he must learn
> the Metamagic Skills in order to use Metamagic. Since they are Special Skills
> (ie, treated as Specializations), they're not TOO expensive to learn and the
> Initiate can pick and choose which abilities to learn and how fast depending
> on the amount of Karma he wants to spend. This has the net effect of limiting
> Metamagic to about the same learning curve as one ability per grade but
> allows an Initiate to stop at Grade 0 if desired and learn all of the
> metamagical skills before moving on.
>
> Maybe make passive Masking a freebie and just require a skill for active
> Masking.
>
> Example: Talon has just become a Grade 0 Initiate. He most wants to do
> Centering and Shielding and has saved up some Karma for them. He buys Latin
> Chant (Centering) at 3 (6 Karma) and Shielding at 3 (also 6 Karma). He now
> has 3 dice for Centering Tests and 3 dice for his Shielding pool. He can't do
> Quickening, Dispelling, Anchoring or Masking because he doesn't have those
> skills yet. If Talon later wants to increase his Centering or Shielding
> Skills he cannot raise them over the value of his Sorcery Skill.
I like the concept.
>
> How 'bout that?
> Steve
--This sig brought to you by my inhrent weirdness.
Kristling "The Weird" Ravenwing
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/5482/
kristlingweird@*********.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:26:27 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonas Bolander <Jonas.Bolander@****.SE>
Subject: Re: Little Green Men
In-Reply-To: "EXT AVS; Stefan" <casanova@***.PASSAGEN.SE>
<"Little Green
Men"@******.air.saab.se> (Jul 31, 3:45pm)
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Jul 31, 3:45pm, EXT AVS; Stefan wrote:
> Subject: Little Green Men
> Well I heard something about that it was the 50th anniversary of the
> Roswell incident this summer and well that would mean that 100th is
> in 2047 ... So since I am already at 2057 and I don't know of any
> time travell technology I guess I have to celebrate the 110th
> anniversary with my runners :)
> Does Area51 still exists in 2057 and who ownes it ?
>
If you look at the map in the ShadowRun rulebook you'll note that
Roswell lies just inside the Aztlan border.
Interesting, isn't it ...
> /Stefan
>
/Jonas Bolander
--
Jonas Bolander
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:31:27 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <casanova@***.passagen.se>
From: Stefan <casanova@***.PASSAGEN.SE>
Subject: Re: Little Green Men
In-Reply-To: <QAA03327@****.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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> > Does Area51 still exists in 2057 and who ownes it ?
> >
>
> If you look at the map in the ShadowRun rulebook you'll note that
> Roswell lies just inside the Aztlan border.
> Interesting, isn't it ...
Ahhh :) Well that makes it all way more interesting ... I can confess
that I forgot ... I thought it belonged to some natives ... ahhh even
better :) Aztech + Aliens = Runner trouble :)
____________________________________________
"Frag you and the datastream you came on!"
[Decker insult]
____________________________________________
E-MAiL ............ casanova@***.passagen.se
HoMEPAGE .. http://hem.passagen.se/casanova/
____________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:32:38 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: ReBoot Gaming Concept
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970731094523.24a764da@*****.com> from "Bull" at
Jul 31,
97 09:42:45 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|>Rocky the rabbid racoon would be a blast!
|>(Season 3 episdoe 2)
|>
|Hell, even if you just took some of today's games, you could have a blast.
|Imagine the players getting Stuck in Super Mario, a Street Fighter/Mortal
|kombat type game, or Doom...;]
Well.... Rocky the rabbid racoon is a Warner (Road runner/Elmor Fudd)/Sonic
the hedgehog mickeytake....
Enzo: Shshshshhh.... Be Vewy vewy qwiet. We're hunting wacoons....
:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:35:06 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: ReBoot Gaming Concept
In-Reply-To: <199707311408.QAA15816@******.passagen.se> from "Stefan" at
Jul
31, 97 04:09:29 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|What if all the runners was sucked into the matix and all of a sudden
|they would have to relay way more on the decker to survive. That
|would be really neat ... :) Hhee LOL! I am feeling a really evil
|streak commin' on :)
The Decker could be the Guardian, and all the other characters could look
like Binomes....
LOL
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:38:49 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <casanova@***.passagen.se>
From: Stefan <casanova@***.PASSAGEN.SE>
Subject: Re: ReBoot Gaming Concept
In-Reply-To: <11996.199707311435@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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> |What if all the runners was sucked into the matix and all of a sudden
> |they would have to relay way more on the decker to survive. That
> |would be really neat ... :) Hhee LOL! I am feeling a really evil
> |streak commin' on :)
>
> The Decker could be the Guardian, and all the other characters could look
> like Binomes....
>
> LOL
HAHHAHA ... Yeah .... I think this would make a great little
adventurer ... atleast it is not what the runners would expect .. :)
Gosh this will just be to fun :)
____________________________________________
"Frag you and the datastream you came on!"
[Decker insult]
____________________________________________
E-MAiL ............ casanova@***.passagen.se
HoMEPAGE .. http://hem.passagen.se/casanova/
____________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:43:24 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Adepts and Astral Projection -Reply -Reply
>Uh, I won't do the dreaded action here, but
>Mike, you have limited yourself greatly. Ever
>heard of Kirlian Photography invented by the
>Russian? Sure, it measures electrical auras
>and displaced energy patterns on a
>photochroma plate, but the idea is there.
>
>Lets take that to the Cybernetic Age and the
>Awakening....
>-Keith
Yes, I'm familiar with it, and the "aura
photographing" aspects of it seem to depend an
aweful lot on the photographer... In my game, it
only really "works" if the photographer is
magically active, and even then it doesn't have
any practical value.
Double-Domed Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 00:37:36 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Barrier Spells
In-Reply-To: <199707311012.MAA13237@*****.xs4all.nl>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:13 31/07/97 +0100, Gurth wrote:
>Justin Pinnow said on 3:16/31 Jul 97...
>
>> I can't seem to find the passage in SR2 that states that barrier spells
>> refresh on every action the casting mage has. Also, I know there has been
>> some controversy over how these rules should be interpreted.
>
>AFAIK there is no such passage, which is exactly what caused the
>controversy...
>
>> Can someone help me out so I can make a house rule about this before it
>> comes up in my campaign (as I am sure it will soon enough)?
BBB Page 109, right column, fourth paragraph down:
'Spells whose Barrier Rating (Force) drops to 0 are knocked down. If the
spell is not knocked to 0, it automatically rebuilds itself during the
casting magician's next action.'
Chris
_______________________________________________________________
Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:00:04 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Adam J. Lyle" <wolfjack@****.BCL.NET>
Subject: Re: Bandwagoneering...
In-Reply-To: <199707311410.QAA16239@******.passagen.se>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 31 Jul 1997, Stefan wrote:
> I never said it was good Adam ... just handy :) It is a wintel
> proggy so how good can it really be ? :) It is way crummier than IRC
> but as you said it is useful for keeping track of people ...
>
> Well I can only use it in school ... And frankly I am glad that I
> can't run it on my Amiga ...
>
> /Stefan
>
It's an ok program to keep track of ppl as long as they are not
invisible, or away, or in DnD mode. The options for ftp are nice though,
auot accept, etc. Makes it easy to send stuff from work computers to
home ones, and the reverse as well.
Adam
.
o .
Beware the woods at night. ooo o
Beware the Lunar light. . oo ooo
o oo .
- Type-O Negative ooo o
oo wWwWw ooo
wWwwwwwWw oo
wwwwwwwwwww
wwwwwwwwwwwww
wwww www
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:15:40 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: Gradual Initiation
Steve Kenson writes
>
> allows an Initiate to stop at Grade 0 if desired and learn all of the
> metamagical skills before moving on.
>
> Maybe make passive Masking a freebie and just require a skill for active
> Masking.
>
I.e. limit it to grade, otherwise there is a serious temptation to
say '15 karma i'll have 5 in masking please :)' as he masks +3D6
reflexes, detenemies and +4 int, quick and an armour spells with a
nice pile of fetish foci in it in short order :)
I have a serious liking for masking :)
> If Talon later wants to increase his Centering or Shielding
> Skills he cannot raise them over the value of his Sorcery Skill.
>
the problem here comes with physical adepts who might not bother with
sorcery, even though they can use it in astral combat theres usually
little point.
> How 'bout that?
possible.
You might do better halving the cost of intiation and then limiting
the powers to grade though so you can be grade 4 masking 4 quite
cheap but if you want everything high its going to cost you. this
does all fit though with the comment in lone star about 'some
training in all the types of metamagic'.
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:22:05 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: Full of Life
Steve Kenson writes
>
> Interesting options as well, BUT my point is there is no way to escape from a
> completely sealed FAB containment grid AS THE RULES ARE PRESENTLY WRITTEN.
> All of the options you suggest are completely new ideas not currently in the
> rules.
Maybe :). What happens if you decide you are trapped and target
yourself with say a stun bolt and knock yourself out, you are
unconcious and snap back directly to your body. There has been
some discussion here about this before but there is a comment to this
effect someplace in the rules. The other one supported by the
literature but not the rules is that giving a mage a slap across the
face can snap them directly back to thier body (but even the novels
vary on this one). This could offer a way out, sure you better have
left your body somewhere you can afford to sleep it off for a while
but at least you aren't dead.
????
> Within the scope of the existing rules, FAB is completely
> invulnerable
> to astral reprisal and there's no way to get out of it. The only potential
> loophole depends on whether or not the projecting character can summon a
> spirit to help him out, which I admit is nebulous.
>
Yes.
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:35:01 GMT
Reply-To: M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Organization: The Robert Gordon University
Subject: Re: Full of Life
Steve Kenson writes
> I would like to remove the "immovable object" problem from astral space. As
> it stands now, there are 3 types of astral things: astral forms (which can
> interact), auras (reflections of material things, which show information, but
> a non-tangible) and living beings, which can block and affect astral
> movement, but cannot in turn be affected from the astral.
>
> But wait! you cry. What about astral security? Actually, it doesn't change
> much. You just need to make a small adjustment. Instead of covering the walls
> of a corp facility with normal ivy to create an astral barrier, say there is
> an Awakened strain of ivy that is dual natured, forming a natural Astral
> Barrier. The difference is, now you can fight the barrier in astral combat to
> break through it like you would any other.
>
> Thoughts?
I forsee some problems.
I rather liked the fact that ivy covered building offered mundanes a
fairly effective and totally astral magician proof method of
protection, it gives the non magicians a chance against something
they cannot detect, the astral mage spying mission is a very powerful
information gatehring technique which if you are not careful mundanes
have absolutely no defense against. The problem with making the
things dual is even if you ban grounding area effect spells (one of
the few things that discourages unmasked spell locks because of risk
of the whole team going up to one fireball) mundanes no longer have a
mage proof defense which they do now though its sufficiently awkward
to use that it remains rare.
The other problem someone mentioned is masked intiates become easy to
find, just try flying through them, the guy who looks normal but you
cannot fly through is masking astral connections. Clever mages can
actually already do this, the detect magic spell will find thier
locks even if you cannot see them :) but it does become easier.
I can see the advantages over FAB though i have followed the 'when
all else fails and the mage gets trapped rule it as if the object hit
his physical body, nets drape over (assuming he hits something firm
otherwise they just push him asside) but 10ton weights coated in FAB
create mage pancake on hitting the ground, result being red teammates
when astral repercussion sets in, yuck. The other answer to FAB is
simply to say things either 'are plants rooted in the soil', 'mouse
plus sizes animals' or are too small to matter, nothing capable of
floating in the air counting as blocking astral movement.
On this matter, oricalcum. I have rated this as not dual but blocking
movement the same as plants do... ?? which allows a few really neat
tricks the corp sec handbook doesn't cover.
Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:41:51 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I've been following this Full of Life thread, and find a lot of
what Steve's saying as interesting, and he's right. Implimented
correctly, his suggestions would streamline ease of pley and eliminate a
lot of the 'foggy' areas about the whole astral thing. I'll probably
start suing them in my games to see how they work [my players run in
terror!].
Concerning astral perception, I've never allowed a mage in astral
space to bombard someone, using their astral perception as pathway thru
the planes. I play Astral Perception as an altering of a person's
perceptions, viewing something that's already there, you're just
attuning your eyes to see it. Sort of like one of those hidden dot
pictures I used to take in school for color perception[evil
psychological tests promulgated by the Technocracy!].
If you put on a pair of special lenses designed to filter out
certain wavelengths of light, the 'hidden' picture in all the dots
becomes visible. I see Astral Perception as a player momentarily 'wiping
clear' the frosted window that separates the astral realm from the
physical one, and looking in. It in NO way involves breaching the
barriers between the two, so it can't be used as a channel for sending
spells back and forth.
From the occult journals I've read, auras are projections, fields
radiated by objects, people, etc. just like the magnetic filed raidated
by a current passing thru a wire. It's intangible, but it's still very
real.
In my game, there's several layers to a person's aura. What most
untrained seers view when they look at a person is the topmost layer,
and the energy 'particles' thrown off and reabsorbed. The radius of a
person's aura can extend anywhere from half a centimeter from a person's
body, up to as much as 25 c.m.! The Dali lama was said to have had an
aura that radiated out for several miles!
In game terms, the aura's determined by a person's Charisma, and
Magical Ability [if any]. A very charismatic entertainer will have an
aura that reaches out several centimeters from his body. An initiate
when she learns to mask her aura, can control the radius her aura
extends as well, to a CERTAIN extent. This is NO reflection of her true
power, but an ILLUSION she can create. And bear in mind, the aura IS
just a field radiated by a person, object, etc. It's a force, NOT a
physical presense.
By reading a person's aura, you can determine things like if that
person has a dominant or receptive personality, is a very charismatic
individual or introverted, etc. And you can pick up on the subtle
interactions between two people, by the way the energy 'particles' are
thrown and absorbed between them when they argue, talk, make love. Areas
that are sick, or will be sick in the immediate future, already
manifesting as flaws in the person's energy field, can be detected.
[For those who don't understand what I mean by these particles, think of
them as imaginary iron filings that are pulled between two or more aura
fields, depending on their strengths. For something more indepth and
precise, I'd suggest grabbing a book on the subject]. All this takes a
bit of practice, and almost certainly the Astral Perception skill.
I know if you use the following, there's plenty of potential for
abuse by the powergamers, etc. out there, and I can already hear the
cries of the masses rising into a near incoherent cacaphony, but it
works in my game, and if you don't think it'll work in your, DON'T use
it. Besides, all my summations and extrapolations comes from the source
material I've read on Auras and Aura Reading, Eastern and Western
Mysticism, and stuff. There's tons of books and web pages on these
subjects, so check them out, and draw your own conclusions. Whether or
not you believe in them ISN'T important; it's how they affect
believability, playbility, and the depth they add to your respective
games that is.
Try these web pages as a start:
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~anat0010/malcom/links.html
http://pubpages.unh.edu/~cbsiren/myth.html
http://www.arcana.com/shannon/voodoo/voodoo,html
http://www.hyperlink.com/weaver/96/25_2/dev/journeys/march.htm
Have a good one.
Kohl
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:55:08 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Joshua M. Kanapkey" <Wakabout@***.COM>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
On 97-07-30, Matb wrote:
<<How many out there allow initiation for starting characters? Not many.
Physads, incidentally, don't get the base 30 Force in the build system,
and even allowing for the non-Edge purchase of them...>>
Which brings me to some questions regarding SRComp:
{{If these questions have been asked and/or answered, please go gently on me,
I've only been on the list a week or so. Thanks.}}
1) Using the Point Build System, does _every_ adept _really_ receive 30 FPs
OR a number of FPs equal to his Magic Rating? (This might be a good idea for
those non-spellcasting adepts, that way those FPs not used cannot be broken
down into BPs.)
2) Is _Day Job_ considered an Edge or a Flaw? I recall seeing it listed both
ways in the book.
3) How many people have come up with new meta-human variants? I have, though
they aren't based on Ethnicity, but fantasy literature. I made up Goblins,
Hobbits, Hobgoblins, and Ogres; before SRComp came out, no less.
Anyway, Thanks and Adieu,
Gimli Gloinson, Decker. (also known as Oshe--long O, long E)
wakabout@***.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:13:43 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Points + Initiation + Power Levels...
Mime-Version: 1.0
Just my two cents on the subject. I picked up the book back in
1st edition as well, and still have several characters around from that point.
The most powerful may be a 4th Initiate Combat Mage. Couple of reasons for this. Despite
the power increase, we (whether I'm GM or not) have always regulated
the power level. Just because you can afford alpha or beta doesn't mean
you can find it. Why did you initiate? Can you justify it, etc.
In our campaigns, initiates are still fairly rare, and anything over a level
3, is strong opposition. I guess my comment is, just because the rules will
let you do it, you don't have to. Keep it fun. If players don't like my
style of campaign, I'm sure they can find others. That is my method anyway.
One more thing. Another reason this has worked well. We've never switched
to the team karma/personal karma pool rules. Karma is karma. And in a hard
run you may burn the karma you were saving to initiate. Tough luck, but
your still alive. Later.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Good judgment comes from experience, and experience from bad judgment"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:05:42 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
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At 04:22 PM 7/31/97 GMT, Mark Steedman wrote these timeless words:
>Steve Kenson writes
>>
>> Interesting options as well, BUT my point is there is no way to escape
from a
>> completely sealed FAB containment grid AS THE RULES ARE PRESENTLY WRITTEN.
>> All of the options you suggest are completely new ideas not currently in
the
>> rules.
>Maybe :). What happens if you decide you are trapped and target
>yourself with say a stun bolt and knock yourself out, you are
>unconcious and snap back directly to your body. There has been
>some discussion here about this before but there is a comment to this
>effect someplace in the rules. The other one supported by the
>literature but not the rules is that giving a mage a slap across the
>face can snap them directly back to thier body (but even the novels
>vary on this one). This could offer a way out, sure you better have
>left your body somewhere you can afford to sleep it off for a while
>but at least you aren't dead.
>????
>
I don;t know... maybe I'm just a prick, but I'd say that the astral form,
if trapped, can;t return to the body of the magician. Sure, it snaps back
to the body normally in an instant, but I'd say the astral form still has
to travel the distance back, regardless of the speed. Otherwise you assume
that astral form "teleports" there, and that just opens up a whole other
can of worms...
I'd say at best, nothing happens to the mage if he tried to knowck himself
out when trapped. At worst, he goes unconsciuos and is still trapped. If
he remains trapped and unconscious for longer than his magic rating allows,
you have one dead mage...
<shrug>
Just my opinion though... Take it or leave it...;]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:08:56 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
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A clarification, for those still confused by the concept of auras.
You CAN'T target an aura, no matter HOW far it extends from the
object that generates it, as it doesn't have a PHYSICAL presence to
ground thru, the same way you can't shoot the electromagnetic field
generated by a current passing thru a wire, to destroy the wire. I'm
pretty sure Steve's said this anyway [though probably in a different,
clearer manner :-].
And I didn't make up the bit about the Dali Lama's aura; i came
across the reference in 3 articles. Game terms, I'd put him as an
Initiate Grade 20+! [Ha Ha]
Have a good one.
Kohl
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:29:45 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Gradual Initiation
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At 09:29 AM 7/31/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Someone mentioned you just don't get the kind of knowledge/ability Initiation
>gives you in a single ephipany. In fact, that's EXACTLY how many people think
>Initiation works, it's a quantum leap to a new level of magical
>understanding. However, it is not necessarily condusive to game balance.
Amen... that was me...
>Likewise, gaining one metamagical ability per grade does seem to encourage
>rapid Initiation in order to get all of the goodies, as Lady Jestyr pointed
>out.
Which isn't so bad, IMHO... but obviously some others think otherwise.
>How about this: Each metamagical ability has its own Special Skill associated
>with it. These skills cannot be higher than the Initiate's Sorcery Skill and
>start out at 0. When a character becomes a Grade 0 Initiate, he must learn
>the Metamagic Skills in order to use Metamagic. Since they are Special Skills
>(ie, treated as Specializations), they're not TOO expensive to learn and the
>Initiate can pick and choose which abilities to learn and how fast depending
>on the amount of Karma he wants to spend. This has the net effect of limiting
>Metamagic to about the same learning curve as one ability per grade but
>allows an Initiate to stop at Grade 0 if desired and learn all of the
>metamagical skills before moving on.
I really like this idea, except that I'd rather see magical theory be the
limiting skill as opposed to sorcery (otherwise, what are non-sorcerous
adepts to do?). The skills would indeed be cheap enough to purchase easily,
but not to an overpowering degree (taking a skill to 6 would cost a total of
21 karma). As a concession to those who already believe that initiation
costs too much, how about this...
Lower the base cost from (6 + grade) to (5 + grade). Doesn't seem like a
whole lot, but it'll save 3 karma at each and every level for self-initiates.
Now about groups (should this be found acceptable)...
...instead of making it [(5 + grade) * 2] for group initiation, maybe make
it [(4 + grade) * 3]. This will make it cheaper than self-initiating, but
not so much so that it becomes a given that players will form/find an
initiatory group. Either that or make groups a bit more difficult to form
(especially to find out how to form them) and/or find (like top shadow
clinics... you have to know people that know people that know people and
they all have to want you to be there or you never know it exists).
Many players assume that making a magical group can be done easily and it
shouldn't be. It's not like someone walked up to them when they were first
learning their abilities and said "oh yeah, if you ever want to initiate on
the cheap, form a magical group... here's how you do it". They miss the
logical step of having to find out how to make the group. That would entail
knowing the right people and those people having enough trust in the
would-be-members and their abilities to teach them one of the most coveted
secrets of magic.
After all, why teach some guy how to make a magical group of his own when
you can make him join yours, be subordinate to you, and help pay for your
group's expenses? Should he be talented, then you'll gain prestige for
bringing him into the fold. Should he not be talented, then you have him
removed. The best part is, you can keep whatever secrets you don't wish him
to have away from him.
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:28:36 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Barrier Spells
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> From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
> Date: Thursday, July 31, 1997 10:37 AM
>
> At 12:13 31/07/97 +0100, Gurth wrote:
> >Justin Pinnow said on 3:16/31 Jul 97...
> >> I can't seem to find the passage in SR2 that states that barrier
spells
> >> refresh on every action the casting mage has. Also, I know there has
been
> >> some controversy over how these rules should be interpreted.
> >AFAIK there is no such passage, which is exactly what caused the
> >controversy...
> >> Can someone help me out so I can make a house rule about this before
it
> >> comes up in my campaign (as I am sure it will soon enough)?
> BBB Page 109, right column, fourth paragraph down:
> 'Spells whose Barrier Rating (Force) drops to 0 are knocked down. If the
> spell is not knocked to 0, it automatically rebuilds itself during the
> casting magician's next action.'
Ah, thank you!!! I KNEW there was something somewhere, but I couldn't find
it in any of the magic rules....because they put it in the Hitting Walls
section (under Combat). Thanks! That makes things easier. :)
Given this statement, would anyone still require the caster to spend an
action in order to rebuild the spell, or would you go with the automatic
rebuilding of the spell? It does seem powerful to let the spell rebuild
itself...
> Chris
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:38:39 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Barrier Spells
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:28 PM 7/31/97 -0400, Justin wrote:
>Given this statement, would anyone still require the caster to spend an
>action in order to rebuild the spell, or would you go with the automatic
>rebuilding of the spell? It does seem powerful to let the spell rebuild
>itself...
I'd let it automatically rebuild as per the rules. He'll still either have
to have the spell locked or be sustaining it so he'll either be groundable
or at a +2 TN mod to do anything. Plus, if you break the barrier down
before his action comes up (easily achievable since most mages have rather
low Initiative) then you don't have to worry about it regenerating.
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:42:29 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
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At 11:55 AM 7/31/97 -0400, Joshua wrote:
>1) Using the Point Build System, does _every_ adept _really_ receive 30 FPs
>OR a number of FPs equal to his Magic Rating? (This might be a good idea for
>those non-spellcasting adepts, that way those FPs not used cannot be broken
>down into BPs.)
Every adept with the exception of physical adepts receives 30 Force Points.
Physical Adepts receive (magic) number of force points to be distributed for
physad abilities alone. Thus, if physads want to bond something to them,
they have to buy force points.
>2) Is _Day Job_ considered an Edge or a Flaw? I recall seeing it listed both
>ways in the book.
It's a flaw.
>3) How many people have come up with new meta-human variants? I have, though
>they aren't based on Ethnicity, but fantasy literature. I made up Goblins,
>Hobbits, Hobgoblins, and Ogres; before SRComp came out, no less.
Bull's the guy to talk to on that...
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:39:49 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Re: Mundane Astral Perception
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> Would it be possible to design a set of goggles worn by a mage that track
> where his eyes move, and then relay that info to another set of goggles
> worn by a mundane?
Once upon a time we tried to come up with something like this..but we
decided that since the Astral plane is now a simple visual place but
rather of all the senses..you might be able to design some sort of
feedback suit..but the mundane wearer would go into sensory
overload..go into shock..and probably go insane..
But that of course was our game..
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:44:37 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Quicksilver <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
In-Reply-To: <970731092906_820064045@*******.mail.aol.com>
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>
> The whole dual-natured ivy thing is just this: the awakened plants act as a
> Ward IN EVERY WAY. This means they have a Rating, which is used in astral
> combat (against intruding astral projectors or spells cast their way). The
> plants are dual-natured, therefore astrally active like a pereiving
> character. The "spirit" or astral form of the plants IS aggressive and does
> fight in astral combat. They don't just sit there waiting to be killed any
> more than a ward (or any other type of astral barrier) does.
My problem with this is that a mage can just stand off and blast the ivy
with a spell of some kind. Sure, he can do the same kind of thing to a
ward (shattershield spell,) but the ward is not vulnerable to mundane
attacks as well.
Quicksilver rides again
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:01:24 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Crossover ideas
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> You could probably do most charcters quite easily... Wolverine would be
> Hieghtened Senses, Regeneration (Ok, that stretches things a bit),
Titanium
> Bone Lacing, and Spurs.
For the regeneration, just dose him up with the Immortality Flower from the
CFS sourcebook.
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:08:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Mundane Astral Perception
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> Oh my. I would say no, simply because I don't view astral perception as
> purely visual input.
Yeah, but IS there a visual aspect to it?
Considering that wounds suffered in astral space transfer to the meat body,
there IS some correlation between astral action and physical reality.
This much leads me to beleive that while the astral is not PURELY visual,
there IS a visual aspect to it, esp, considering that you can split
perception between the two planes when assensing.
Maybe using these goggles would add +2 for the mage, under the splitting
concentraion law?
<Snip LSD>
Not a bad idea, but like you said, hard to do much when tripping!
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:09:04 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Spear of Destiny cont'd:
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Thank you to all those who replied with help. I guess that I'll have to
go hit the library.
So here's what I've been considering, feel free to flame away. I know
that my asbestos suit is around here somewhere ... rubber chicken ... naw
... whoopie cushion ... um not right now ...
Oh and if Landon is lurking on this list ... no peeking.
This should be enough space:
Most of the characters here are heavy combat, mercenaries, gun runners
etc etc ( a tad munchie but not too bad).
First, the vampires want the spear so that they can use it in a ritual to
make them "super" vampires. Of course, Martin wants it to deystroy them
with it.
I'm having trouble figuring out how to get it into their grubby little
mits in the first place. I was thinking about rewritting Joseph Conrad's
"Heart of Darkness" (aka Apocalypse Now).
some ideas;
1) the wierdo in the jungle IS the roman who did the dirty deed all of
those years ago and can't figure out how to use it to die (already tried
stabbing himself ... didn't work
2) the wierdo in the jungle stole it from an Aztechnology ... nah I'm
tired of always dogging on the big A, lets make it Yamatetsu. He has it
and doesn't know what to do with it.
any other ideas?
regards
Bill
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:23:20 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: david lowe <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
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At 9:29 AM 7/31/97, Steve Kenson wrote:
>For example, a corp research building is protecting by a Rating 6 para-ivy
>grown over its walls. An astral projector with Sorcery 6 flys up and tries to
>pass through. The ivy attacks. Both sides roll Astral Combat Tests using
>their dice vs. TN 4. If the ivy gets more successes, it does combat damage
>like a Barrier, or 6M, if the projector wins, his successes reduce the ivy's
>Rating. If the projector wins the combat (ie, reduces the ivy's Rating to 0)
>he is able to pass through, but "the barrier remains intact against all other
>intruders." (SRII, "Barriers," p.147) just like a normal astral
barrier.
>
Question, Steve:
What would be the effect upon the physical plane? I mean, if a caster was
grounding (ooh, there's that word again) a defoilant spell, physical combat
spell or DM through the para-ivy to defeat it, I imagine there would be a
noticable effect upon the ivy in the physical world.
Would there be a similar effect if they were attacking it as a ward? ie,
would Jane-Sec Guard have a chance to notice that somebody's astrally
wacking their guard plant? I feel that there should be some physical
effect. What's your opinions?
D.
David R. Lowe (dlowe@****.com)
Photography/Graphic Design
"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby."
-Daffy Duck
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GC3.1 GCA$ d- s: a- C++++ U P L E? W+ N++ o K w-- O- M++$ V--
PS++ PE Y+ PGP- t 5 X+ R+++$ tv- b++ DI++ D--- G++ e++ h--- r++ y+
-
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Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:23:27 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: david lowe <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 9:28 AM 7/31/97, Steve Kenson wrote:
<snip about conjuring pool>
>If it is a house rule or something out of my head, I think it would be a good
>thing for SR3 : )
That's so cool. "I like that rule, maybe I will put it in SRIII."
(I know things aren't that easy, it just sounds cool. I think your right.
IIRC it is a holdover from SRI, but I've always played it that way too.)
D.
ps, can you tell I have nothing to do at work today?
David R. Lowe (dlowe@****.com)
Photography/Graphic Design
"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby."
-Daffy Duck
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Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:23:30 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: david lowe <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Little Green Men
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 7:45 AM 7/31/97, Stefan wrote:
>So anybody had any adventures with Aliens and when I say aliens I
>mean the little grey men with large black eyes .. not the Horrors
>even thou they might be alien. Anybody have any good stats, powers
>and alien gizmos ?
>
>Does Area51 still exists in 2057 and who ownes it ?
>
Not to push a non-FASA product, but Pagan Publishing just put out their
Delta Green sourcebook for Call of Cthulhu, and a lot of it has to do with
the little 'gray' men of Roswell, albiet with a Cthulhu tint. It's got some
good ideas that would easily be adaptable, and good source material on US
Federal police and espionage agencies that could easily be used for UCAS
stuff. Check it out if you can find it.
D.
David R. Lowe (dlowe@****.com)
Photography/Graphic Design
"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby."
-Daffy Duck
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GC3.1 GCA$ d- s: a- C++++ U P L E? W+ N++ o K w-- O- M++$ V--
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Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:23:33 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: david lowe <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: ReBoot Gaming Concept
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 8:09 AM 7/31/97, Stefan wrote:
>> Hell, even if you just took some of today's games, you could have a blast.
>> Imagine the players getting Stuck in Super Mario, a Street Fighter/Mortal
>> kombat type game, or Doom...;]
>
>Stuck in Doom ? On some gameing sessions it feels like that
>all the time ... :)
>
One word: Marathon.
I ran a Hero system campaign based upon Marathon two summers ago that my
friends still talk about.
D.
David R. Lowe (dlowe@****.com)
Photography/Graphic Design
"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby."
-Daffy Duck
-
GC3.1 GCA$ d- s: a- C++++ U P L E? W+ N++ o K w-- O- M++$ V--
PS++ PE Y+ PGP- t 5 X+ R+++$ tv- b++ DI++ D--- G++ e++ h--- r++ y+
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Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:23:36 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: david lowe <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Little Green Men
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 4:26 PM 7/31/97, Jonas Bolander wrote:
>If you look at the map in the ShadowRun rulebook you'll note that
>Roswell lies just inside the Aztlan border.
>Interesting, isn't it ...
>
And not one mention of it in the Atzlan sourcebook. See, it is a fragging
conspiracy!
D.
Man, am I bored at work today...
David R. Lowe (dlowe@****.com)
Photography/Graphic Design
"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby."
-Daffy Duck
-
GC3.1 GCA$ d- s: a- C++++ U P L E? W+ N++ o K w-- O- M++$ V--
PS++ PE Y+ PGP- t 5 X+ R+++$ tv- b++ DI++ D--- G++ e++ h--- r++ y+
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Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:23:24 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: david lowe <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Gradual Initiation
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 9:29 AM 7/31/97, Steve Kenson wrote:
><lots of talk about gradual initiation snipped>
>How about this: Each metamagical ability has its own Special Skill associated
>with it. These skills cannot be higher than the Initiate's Sorcery Skill and
>start out at 0. When a character becomes a Grade 0 Initiate, he must learn
>the Metamagic Skills in order to use Metamagic. Since they are Special Skills
>(ie, treated as Specializations), they're not TOO expensive to learn and the
>Initiate can pick and choose which abilities to learn and how fast depending
>on the amount of Karma he wants to spend. This has the net effect of limiting
>Metamagic to about the same learning curve as one ability per grade but
>allows an Initiate to stop at Grade 0 if desired and learn all of the
>metamagical skills before moving on.
Personally, I like the idea of gradual initiation and the abilites as
separate skills, but to have the abilities as separate skills makes
initiation even more karma costly. How about a way to make a 'pool' of
skill points at each level for learning the skills. ie, you 18 karma to
reach grade zero, you can use six of those points towards metamagical
skills.
I'm just throwing this out, obviously the numbers would have to be worked
to make it playable and balanced.
D.
David R. Lowe (dlowe@****.com)
Photography/Graphic Design
"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby."
-Daffy Duck
-
GC3.1 GCA$ d- s: a- C++++ U P L E? W+ N++ o K w-- O- M++$ V--
PS++ PE Y+ PGP- t 5 X+ R+++$ tv- b++ DI++ D--- G++ e++ h--- r++ y+
-
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:18:22 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
In-Reply-To: <199707311645.KAA16589@******> from "Quicksilver" at Jul 31,
97 12:44:37 pm
Content-Type: text
Quicksilver wrote:
|
| > The whole dual-natured ivy thing is just this: the awakened plants act as a
| > Ward IN EVERY WAY. This means they have a Rating, which is used in astral
| > combat (against intruding astral projectors or spells cast their way). The
| > plants are dual-natured, therefore astrally active like a pereiving
| > character. The "spirit" or astral form of the plants IS aggressive and
does
| > fight in astral combat. They don't just sit there waiting to be killed any
| > more than a ward (or any other type of astral barrier) does.
|
| My problem with this is that a mage can just stand off and blast the ivy
| with a spell of some kind. Sure, he can do the same kind of thing to a
| ward (shattershield spell,) but the ward is not vulnerable to mundane
| attacks as well.
IMO, such a defense would be backed up and layered. Put the dual-natured
ivy up as your basic wall. Then toss a couple of watchers out there to
watch the perimeter. Have a mage or two inside, with a couple of elementals
on standby, ready to start wacking if something twigs with the ivy.
Or do like Steve said. Plant a Rating 12 Ivy wall.
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:20:02 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: ReBoot Gaming Concept
In-Reply-To: <199707311715.LAA18024@******> from "david lowe" at Jul 31,
97 10:23:33 am
Content-Type: text
david lowe wrote:
|
| One word: Marathon.
| I ran a Hero system campaign based upon Marathon two summers ago that my
| friends still talk about.
Marathon?
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:23:58 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Baylon 5
In a message dated 97-07-30 23:44:09 EDT, you write:
<< Damn, I here I thought that Boxleitner had been pacing the floors. He
must
need the job more than Ms. Christian. That really blows. Especially with
the possibility of Marcus and Ivanova getting together.
>>
Actually, I have read the spoilers and it will not matter in the end, as
their relationship does undergo a change, but not like you think.
-Bandit
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:36:14 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Vorpal Monowhip
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
One thing that still bugs me is that there's no limb loss chart for using a
monowhip in SR.
Every work of fiction that features these nasty weapons talks about how it
just slices people into sections.
However in SR, all you get to do is minor wounds.
Anyone done up a hit location chart for a monowhip ala A_&_'s Vorpal Sword,
or Sword of Sharpness?
How about house rules for lopping off limbs?
Thanks.
Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"FREE FRANCIS BEAN!"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:37:42 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Spaceman <spaced@*.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject: [OT] Cartoons (Was Re: Hallucinogens in SR)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970729162736.30c792de@*****.com>
>>>>> Bull didst say unto the aether thusly:
# Yo Joe!
# <grin>
BobDammit Bull, Now I've got the theme song running through my head!!!
ARGGH!!
"GI JOE (He's a real american hero)"
Does anybody else out there remember Tranzor Z?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:41:21 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Spaceman <spaced@*.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject: Re: ReBoot Gaming Concept
In-Reply-To: <199707311720.LAA18252@******>
>>>>> David Buehrer didst say unto the aether thusly:
# Marathon?
3d shoot-em-up for the Mac. One of the better 3d's out there, although
I have to put Quake at the top.......
ObSR: Did the Basque ETA succeed in the sixth world?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:38:28 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Re: Mundane Astral Perception
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
>Yeah, but IS there a visual aspect to it?
Yes there..But trying to See only..Would be like trying to play a
video game with only the pixels for red showing on the screen..No
sense could possible be made of the whole picture..
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:55:49 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: david lowe <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: ReBoot Gaming Concept
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:20 AM 7/31/97, David Buehrer wrote:
>david lowe wrote:
>|
>| One word: Marathon.
>| I ran a Hero system campaign based upon Marathon two summers ago that my
>| friends still talk about.
>
>Marathon?
Marathon is a kick-ass game from Bungie that makes Doom look like a game
for little girls (no offense to any little girls on this list).
It's a POV shoot-em game with incredible graphics, sound and physics, and
(gasp!) an actual story with an actual plot. I don't know if the original
is availible for Windows, but the two sequels are.
Do yourself a favor and check this game out.
D.
ps, it's also great networked. I work for a design company, and can't say
you've truly lived until you've played Marathon with three other people on
blazing fast ethernetted Macs with 21" monitors, stero sound and live audio
mics. Of course, one could argue I need to get a life...
David R. Lowe (dlowe@****.com)
Photography/Graphic Design
"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby."
-Daffy Duck
-
GC3.1 GCA$ d- s: a- C++++ U P L E? W+ N++ o K w-- O- M++$ V--
PS++ PE Y+ PGP- t 5 X+ R+++$ tv- b++ DI++ D--- G++ e++ h--- r++ y+
-
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:46:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: The Chromium Mage (was: [SR3] Geasa)
In a message dated 97-07-30 20:26:03 EDT, you write:
> > This reminds me. Does anyone besides me think it exceptionally odd that
> in
> > the point system you can have an adept with a significantly greater
number
> of
> > starting force points than a full-blown magician can possibly obtain?
I've
> > got a GM who won't use the point based system(says it leads to power-
> gaming,
> > but I don't see it), but to my mind, this is a significant flaw in that
I
> can
> > have quite a few more spells than a more talented magician.
>
> Do you find it odd that under the priority-based system, a sorceror adept
> can have significantly more force points at chargen than a mage? They
can...
>
WHOOPS!!!! Sorry, I meant the priority-based system... I don't know how that
came out as point-based system, although even there to get comparable stats
and the like you've got 10 less force points available. But, that's what
tweaking is for, I suppose. =)
Wolfstar
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:46:51 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Little Green Men
On Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:26:27 +0200 Jonas Bolander
<Jonas.Bolander@****.SE> writes:
>> Does Area51 still exists in 2057 and who ownes it ?
>>
>
>If you look at the map in the ShadowRun rulebook you'll note that
>Roswell lies just inside the Aztlan border.
>Interesting, isn't it ...
Ummm...I think Area 51 (which is on Groom Lake in Nevada, I believe)
would be in the NAN.
Anther interesting site to think about:
Wright-Patterson Air Force Base (Frag, it's in Ohio somewhere, can't
remember which city), Hangar 18 or 19 there is supposed to contain alien
bodies.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:46:51 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Gradual Initiation
On Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:29:10 -0400 Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
writes:
><lots of talk about gradual initiation snipped>
>
>FWIW, my thoughts on the topic:
>
>Someone mentioned you just don't get the kind of knowledge/ability
>Initiation
>gives you in a single ephipany. In fact, that's EXACTLY how many
<snip>
>How about this: Each metamagical ability has its own Special Skill
<snip>
>How 'bout that?
Would you be offended if I don't like it? I like metamagic as it is:
available as soon as you initiate, with ratings or whatever based off
your Grade (or however they're set up, I think it varies depending on the
ability and my Grimmy's upstairs:). The one thing I'd make note of is
that having a grade of initiation doesn't mean you know what to do with
it. It really should be necessary to have someone teach you how to use
all of the neat new powers (whether this is another magician or your
totem or your ally or Tutor <EGMG> or through a Quest of Knowledge [could
be done as a dream]). As long as it's noted that an initiation isn't just
waking up and figuring out all the secrets of the universe over night
(which it is as written). It wouldn't require any actual rules re-writing
and could make for some really cool RPing.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:46:51 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Mundane Astral Perception
On Thu, 31 Jul 1997 00:42:43 -0400 "Steven A. Tinner"
<bluewizard@*****.COM> writes:
<<Just a thought here.>>
Take cover!!!
:)
<<Would it be possible to design a set of goggles worn by a mage that
track where his eyes move, and then relay that info to another set of
goggles worn by a mundane?
The concept I'm working at here is - ASSUMING - that mages eyes DO track
astral forms just as they track mundane sights, then would it not be
possible to use "view to a kill"/smartgun aiming technology to coordinate
the mages eye movements to a mundane, wearing a set of goggles.
This sound logical or have all these cheese puffs melted my brain?>>
Oh, definitely the cheese puffs:)
Sounds workable, so long as the magician actually moved his eyes when
he's looking around in astral space. You'd have to make it in such a way
that the goggles don't obstruct vision (and thus, line of sight), but so
long as the magician's eyes track (which they might do out of habit), it
would be completely workable.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:46:51 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
On Thu, 31 Jul 1997 00:16:54 -0400 "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
writes:
<<Actually, that is somewhat correct. Ever remember that statement about
the newbie mage in training projecting with the little old man mentor?
Newbie arrives, can't find his mentor until "the big booming voice" gets
his attention.>>
So, a spirit is going to be intimidated by the appearance of one's astral
form? Sorry, this just doesn't seem to fit with the way things work (for
me, anyway). Self-image may count for a lot, but I'm not sure it
necessarily translates into Charisma.
<<And Again, the answer would be yes. Just remember that Charisma is a
reflection of Self Image and the Perceivable Persona. Willpower is the
focus and directive "force" that a person can imply upon a responsive
medium.>>
Actually, it would appear to be the other way around, as Charisma
indicates Astral Strength and one's ability to manipulate others, while
willpower represents Astral Body and the cohesiveness and inherent
strength to one's mind. Charisma and Strength represent the force one can
bring to bear on another (both mental and physical force, respectively).
Body and Willpower represent one's resistance to change (both physically
and mentally). Quickness and Intelligence represent the speed at which
you (or your thoughts) can move. So, Charisma is the ability to force
your will on others, Willpower is the ability of your will to withstand
attacks against it. And yes, sometimes things overlap. <Disclaimer: this
is only my opinion>
<<Whoa, hold on, what happened to Charisma?>>
Not a whole lot, actually. It's role hasn't really been switched, it's
just been moved somewhere I think it makes a bit more sense. By using
Charisma for the Summoning test, instead of the Resistance test, I think
it better represents the negotiation going on between spirit and
summoner. With Magic - based Drain (which my system would use), the
summoner takes Drain based on how much of the mana needed for that call
to the metaplanes can be safely channeled through his or her body.
Willpower (the magician's resistance to mental change) then resists the
resultant damage.
<<The idea is the same, but I think we see Willpower in different
lights.>>
That would appear to be the problem. I think we see both Charisma and
Willpower slightly differently, and that seems to be causing confusion.
Again, we need detailed explanations of exactly what each attribute
really represents.
<<Okay, then here is one to chew on and please note, you'll want to have
Granites' new teeth for this one. Spirit Etiquette for your
"negotiating.">>
You mean Bull, right? Actually, I could see it happening, but I think
that, for this purpose anyway, this skill is already represented: the
Conjuring Skill.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:55:30 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Greetings
In a message dated 97-07-30 21:38:56 EDT, you write:
> Before some of the listmember.nasties jump on you about it, if you alerady
> haven't, make sure you read the ShadowRN FAQ.
> It's fairly clear about what goes on here, and it also makes a breif
> mention about not using "cute" phrases like B4 U ask, and CU L8R, it's
> annoying to some folks.
Heh. That'd be a great idea. Anyone wanna tell "us newbies" where we can get
the ShadowRN FAQ since the link from the itribe.net site is non-functional?
Actually, the only ones that were functioning was the NERPS link, and the
ShadowTK FAQ....
Wolfstar
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 08:57:53 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Skye Comstock <bilbo@****.NWLINK.COM>
Subject: Re: Little Green Men
In-Reply-To: <199707311343.PAA10633@******.passagen.se>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>So anybody had any adventures with Aliens and when I say aliens I
>mean the little grey men with large black eyes .. not the Horrors
>even thou they might be alien. Anybody have any good stats, powers
>and alien gizmos ?
>
>Does Area51 still exists in 2057 and who ownes it ?
AFAIK, at the present, Area 51 is being cleaned out and moved to
another location... It's not exactly secret anymore. :] Although,
maybe they are just faking the move...
>At present time I have to possible storylines ...
>
>1. Another UFO crashes ... And a Megacorp wants the technology
Have the UFO crash, it's more fun. ;)
>2. A few goverment and military men wants to return the US to its
>former glory and they wanna do it with the help of the Alien
>technology. And well naturally the MegaCorp would wanna put an
>end to this since a powerful goverment would be a pain in there side.
Well, I ran a game like this on IRC, just for the hell of it...
Had them meet some guy, and they shipped the characters off to
a place near Area 51 (I thought it was in the NAN, not Aztlan..
so<g>), get outfitted with all this great gear. Then I had them
see some aliens, roll Willpower to avoid running around screaming
from the fear, which was fun. Then I had a ship pick up a player
and drop him, then I made him run around and scream... <g>
The players also got weird and ran toward a hanger and I had
to shoot most of them... fun fun.
-Skye
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:14:41 -0500
Reply-To: swordman@******.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Swordman <swordman@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Crossover ideas
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Steven A. Tinner wrote:
> For the regeneration, just dose him up with the Immortality Flower from the
> CFS sourcebook.
>
His real name was Clive (the character based of Wolverine).
Encephalon, Titanium Bone Lacing, Dikot Custom Spurs, Symbiots,
Sythacardium, Orthoskin, Suprathyroid Gland, Cerebreal Booster(to
compensate for Orthoskin and to boost Combat pool and reaction), Pain
Editor, Reflex Recorders,Synaptic Accelerator, Enhanced Articulation,
Muscle Augmentation.
Edges and Flaws-Extrodinary Body, Toughness, Quick Healer, Lightning
Reflexes...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:16:49 -0500
Reply-To: swordman@******.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Swordman <swordman@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Crossover ideas (another one)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
NORBERT MATAUSCH wrote:
>
> does anyone have experience with a Judge Dredd-SR crossover?
>
We had a Street Shaman with Fire Arms B/R and Electronics remake the Gun
Dredd used.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:15:16 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Force Points for Initiation (was: The Chromium Mage)
In a message dated 97-07-30 23:32:03 EDT, you write:
> Same thing happened with Alpha and Betaware, why do you think Delta came
> about?
> So there would be a 'really, really rare' category of better cyber, since
> everyone and their brother had at least Alpha. SR has been doing this
over
> time, just upping the power levels every year or so, and it's not a trend
I
> like. Just look at Cybermancy, was that idea even remotely necessary? It
> was
> something to get Cybertechnology to sell better, imo, and a fairly
> interesting
> but not really... good idea.
On Cybermancy: Consider that the main factions providing the conversion
utilize blood magic, and that the link of blood magic can play all sorts of
havok in the storyline.
On Cyberware: I just want to know why there's a SOTA for the matrix and not
for the rest of the world. So in our setting, Alpha is normal(with book costs
NOT multiplied), Beta is list cost times 4, and you can't get Delta because
if you know that delta exists yer ahead of the curve. Standard essence cyber
is half book cost.
On Initiates: Who cares how common they are, when the majority of the runner
teams out there effectively doubles the percentage of magicians in the
general populace. Initiates are supposed to be rare, yes. Magicians in
general are supposed to be just as rare in the general populace. How many
teams have two mages?
Wolfstar
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:15:17 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Loseke <mike@******.VERINET.COM>
Subject: Re: Mundane Astral Perception
In-Reply-To: <19970731.134518.18135.2.lobo1@****.com> from "John E
Pederson"
at Jul 31, 97 01:46:51 pm
Content-Type: text
Quoth John E Pederson:
>
> On Thu, 31 Jul 1997 00:42:43 -0400 "Steven A. Tinner"
> <bluewizard@*****.COM> writes:
>
> <<Would it be possible to design a set of goggles worn by a mage that
> track where his eyes move, and then relay that info to another set of
> goggles worn by a mundane?
>
> The concept I'm working at here is - ASSUMING - that mages eyes DO track
> astral forms just as they track mundane sights, then would it not be
> possible to use "view to a kill"/smartgun aiming technology to coordinate
> the mages eye movements to a mundane, wearing a set of goggles.
>
> This sound logical or have all these cheese puffs melted my brain?>>
>
> Oh, definitely the cheese puffs:)
>
> Sounds workable, so long as the magician actually moved his eyes when
> he's looking around in astral space. You'd have to make it in such a way
> that the goggles don't obstruct vision (and thus, line of sight), but so
> long as the magician's eyes track (which they might do out of habit), it
> would be completely workable.
The point everyone seems to have missed here is that for this to work
the meat eyes would also have to focus on the target so that a range
could be determined to the target. Just having a line from the mage's
POV wouldn't do much for you. You'd have to have a pretty good argument
to convice most folks that the meat eyes *would* focus when astrally
percepting anyway. Good idea though.
--
Mike Loseke | I like you but I woudn't want to see
mike@*******.com | you working with subatomic particles.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:28:29 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@***01.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Little Green Men
In-Reply-To: <19970731.134518.18135.0.lobo1@****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
On 31 Jul 97 at 13:46, John E Pederson wrote:
> Wright-Patterson Air Force Base (Frag, it's in Ohio somewhere, can't
> remember which city), Hangar 18 or 19 there is supposed to contain alien
> bodies.
It's in Dayton, as am I. The bodies are supposedly stored in a
freezer at Hangar 18. Don't know about that... but when my Dad was
stationed there before he retired, he told me that it was also under
heavy security. So something is in there... or they want us to think
so.
--
===DREKHEAD==================================drekhead@***.net===
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
================================================================
I can see clearly now, the brain is gone...
----------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:32:35 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
In a message dated 97-07-31 01:52:48 EDT, you write:
> I've seen that scenario........ All it takes is a weapon focus (Rating
> 15) in the hands of a troll Physical Adept.
>
> (The guy killed a dragon with one hit)
>
> ....I can see the people firing up already about the absurdly high rating
> of the focus, but bear in mind that it's easily within the rules to do
> it, for only 15 Karma, given enough orichalum, money and time .
I know what you mean, and it wouldn't be nearly so bad if it wasn't for a
few problems such as the ease of manufacture(skill roll wise) of most of the
alchemical radicals, never mind orichalcum itself. Granted, yes, it's
EXTREMELY time consuming, but that doesn't bear too much on it if you're
using the optional force-for-karma rules in SRComp. I read that and was
having visions of sorcerors with Rating 8 power foci on their first runs....
> Perhaps the enchanting rules need looking at as well (I'm not sure if
> that's been covered already; I've been away)
It hasn't, and maybe it should, but I think that the TN's for (at least)
orichalcum should be raised a bit. I mean, TN of 10 minus Magic Rating, A
level 3 initiate could retire and just start churning out the orichalcum.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:34:57 -0500
Reply-To: swordman@******.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Swordman <swordman@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Vorpal Monowhip
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Steven A. Tinner wrote:
> Anyone done up a hit location chart for a monowhip ala A_&_'s Vorpal Sword,
> or Sword of Sharpness?
> How about house rules for lopping off limbs?
Seeing as how our group doesn't "make up" house rules, only find ways of
looking at the rules to see where the puzzle links up and append and
needed.
Page 113, SRII.
Deadly Wounds and Permanent Damage states that if a character suffers a
Deadly wound even after soaking there is a chance that a limb may become
dammaged and need replacing.
If one of our team calls a shot (+4 TN)
ex "Cut his arm off with the Katana."
"Shot him in the leg."
If a deadly wound is scored not only is the target dying but we just
skip the roll and rule it as if a failure
ex "You slice off not only his arm but most of his shoulder and ribs..."
"You blow his clean leg off near the hip"
Usualy the PC's don't throw hand fulls of dice into the attack hoping
not to do such damage, but it happens.
If any kind of wound is scored I have them make a body test using the
Wound Table on page 113 using the system of Deadly Wounds and Permanent
Damage on the bottom of 113, top of 114.
ex A serous wound the guy loses his his arm near the elbow and is in
pain but consious...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:46:29 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Force Points for Initiation (was: The Chromium Mage)
In a message dated 97-07-31 03:24:36 EDT, you write:
> Because unless you limit shielding dice and magic point increases as
> well, with gradual initiation, by the time the character gets to the
> level of metamagic they want they'll have grotesque amounts of shielding
> dice and similar magic ratings...
(Suddenly, the light comes on in the back of Wolfy's skull.) OH!!! I grasp
the concept now! Alright!
As far as my group is concerned, When you use gradual Initiation rules, the
Initiate Grade that they gain the power at is considered 0 for that metamagic
power. I mean, sure, you still get your magic rating dice, but at least you
don't have oodles of shielding dice when you finally get the power. That'd
defeat the purpose of gradual Initiation.
As for magic rating, I suppose you could allow them to lose a geas OR gain a
point to their magic attribute as a way of limiting that....
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:46:41 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Vorpal Monowhip
On Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:36:14 -0400 "Steven A. Tinner"
<bluewizard@*****.COM> writes:
>One thing that still bugs me is that there's no limb loss chart for
>using a
>monowhip in SR.
>
>Every work of fiction that features these nasty weapons talks about
>how it
>just slices people into sections.
>However in SR, all you get to do is minor wounds.
Not so. It does 10S, with half impact armor. You only need two successes
to stage it up to Deadly (and thus risk limb loss) and it's not
particularly hard to get more successes than the defender can manage on
the Damage resistance test. I could certainly see making the thing
longer, though. Three feet (that's one meter for you metric folks:) seems
a bit, well, short for a whip. 4 to 5 ft might be more appropriate . . .
That'd get you more of a reach advantage and lower your TN for the melee
test, make it a bit easier to get successes. After that, let the Deadly
wound stuff do it's job. If you really feel like it's necessary, give a
+1 or +2 or something when rolling on that test to see if the guy got his
arm/leg/tentacle/whatever lopped off.
--
-Canthros (gee, I thought this was what fudging rolls was for:)
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:54:59 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Adepts and Astral Projection -Reply
In a message dated 97-07-31 04:21:34 EDT, you write:
> Uh, I won't do the dreaded action here, but Mike, you have limited yourself
> greatly. Ever heard of Kirlian Photography invented by the Russian?
Sure,
> it measures electrical auras and displaced energy patterns on a
photochroma
> plate, but the idea is there.
You don't even need Kirlian equipment, high energy sites get picked up on
normal photographic film. Problem is, in the modern day, unless it's got a
fancy name with a fancy scientific explanation, the fuzz in the center of an
otherwise clear picture gets passed off as random body parts, bad spot on the
film, etc. But regular film works if there's enough energy.
Wolfstar(Forgot to sign the last two!)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:03:21 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nathan Ray <Gabrie6967@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Crossover ideas
In a message dated 7/31/97 11:15:35 AM, you wrote:
>Wolverine would be
>Hieghtened Senses, Regeneration (Ok, that stretches things a bit), Titanium
>Bone Lacing, and Spurs.
I've played a wolverine-like charectar for a while, tag him with olfactory
boost, wired reflexes, symbiotes and other wound-handleing bio-ware, bone
lacing, spurs, and a adrenaline gland and pain editor for a good ole
adimantium rage (kick in the editor AFTER the rage starts)
Gabriel, The Angel of Death
"When in danger or in doubt run in circles scream and shout"- Robert Heinlien
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:09:28 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] Baylon 5
In-Reply-To: <970731132357_-121861713@*******.mail.aol.com> from "M. Sean
Martinez" at Jul 31, 97 01:23:58 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|
|In a message dated 97-07-30 23:44:09 EDT, you write:
|
|<< Damn, I here I thought that Boxleitner had been pacing the floors. He
|must
| need the job more than Ms. Christian. That really blows. Especially with
| the possibility of Marcus and Ivanova getting together.
| >>
|
|Actually, I have read the spoilers and it will not matter in the end, as
|their relationship does undergo a change, but not like you think.
I thought we'd been through this last week!
NO HINTS!!!!
NO VISIBLE SPOILERS FOR B5!!!!
NONE, NIL, NADA, ZILCH!!!!!!
Got that!!!!
(The previous bits were discussing the politics BEHIND the show, but I DO
NOT WANT ANY HINTS, no matter how small, ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN THE
PROGRAMME!!!!! I've already been told that Garibaldi gets back, and recovers
his memory. NO MORE!!!!!)}
</RANT>
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:12:38 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nathan Ray <Gabrie6967@***.COM>
Subject: Re: help needed on researching campaign ideas.
In a message dated 7/31/97 1:53:54 PM, you wrote:
>|Ummmmm, I've only seen the pilot so far but it seems to be a quasi
>|historical television show about either Ireland or England during the
>|year 500 when the Romans invaded and the Celts who fought them. They
>|aren't doing much with historical acuracy on this one and the plot
>|seemed weak but it may get better.
>|
>
>Historical accuracy means little to morons in TV land.
>I mean AD 500? They'd been in Britain well over 400 years by that point...
>If they already hadn't left...
Its Scotland... and fairly historically acurate... the Scots were always a
thorn in the side for ALL the conquerers... Haiden' (sp?) Wall was built by
the romans on the border of scotland,and as I remember, It took several
hundred years...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:14:58 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nathan Ray <Gabrie6967@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Mundane Astral Perception
In a message dated 7/31/97 2:05:28 PM, you wrote:
>In my campaign, when astrally perceiving, nothing appears different about
>the mage on the physical plane. To look to his right, he changes his point
>of view, so to speak, but doesn't turn his head, for example. This is just
>my opinion, however...I don't think this is clarified in the canon rules
>anywhere.
But whille astrally percievin
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:20:04 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Mark A. Imbriaco" <mark@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Vorpal Monowhip
In-Reply-To: <19970731.144544.16695.0.lobo1@****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 31 Jul 1997, John E Pederson wrote:
> Not so. It does 10S, with half impact armor. You only need two successes
> to stage it up to Deadly (and thus risk limb loss) and it's not
> particularly hard to get more successes than the defender can manage on
> the Damage resistance test. I could certainly see making the thing
> longer, though. Three feet (that's one meter for you metric folks:) seems
> a bit, well, short for a whip. 4 to 5 ft might be more appropriate . . .
> That'd get you more of a reach advantage and lower your TN for the melee
> test, make it a bit easier to get successes. After that, let the Deadly
> wound stuff do it's job. If you really feel like it's necessary, give a
> +1 or +2 or something when rolling on that test to see if the guy got his
> arm/leg/tentacle/whatever lopped off.
I don't know .. I'd think that the melee test would become
more difficult as the monowhip got longer, simply because the
longer it is, the harder it is to control. I'd also stick
in some more dire fumble rules than the rule of one, to put
in the nasty probab .. err .. possibilty of cutting off one
of your own limbs. <EG>
-Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:16:53 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nathan Ray <Gabrie6967@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Mundane Astral Perception
In a message dated 7/31/97 2:05:28 PM, you wrote:
>In my campaign, when astrally perceiving, nothing appears different about
>the mage on the physical plane. To look to his right, he changes his point
>of view, so to speak, but doesn't turn his head, for example. This is just
>my opinion, however...I don't think this is clarified in the canon rules
>anywhere.
whoops sorry about that, dropped the mouse... anyway, while astrally
*perceiving* the mage is still in his body, so would be tracking things with
his eyes... maybe...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:21:59 -0400
Reply-To: craigjwjr@*****link.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Craig J Wilhelm Jr <craigjwjr@*********.NET>
Organization: Afterlife Incorperated
Subject: Re: Vorpal Monowhip
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
John E Pederson wrote:
> Not so. It does 10S, with half impact armor. You only need two successes
> to stage it up to Deadly (and thus risk limb loss) and it's not
> particularly hard to get more successes than the defender can manage on
> the Damage resistance test.
That and it works off of 1/2 impact armor (IIRC). It aint to hard to
shred some one with these things. I have a physad in my game who's
specialty is paired mono-whips, the rest of the characters give him mad
respect for the ammount of damage he can do close up. He's even gained a
few nicknames on the streets: Chopshop Charley, Sergeant Slice, and
Butcherblock Bob.
> I could certainly see making the thing
> longer, though. Three feet (that's one meter for you metric folks:) seems
> a bit, well, short for a whip. 4 to 5 ft might be more appropriate . . .
It's got a reach of 2, that's 2 meters, long enough for me.
--
Craig J Wilhelm Jr
Reality is nothing but a refuge for those who can't handle role-playing.
http://home.earthlink.net/~craigjwjr/
ICQ UIN: 1864690
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5+++ X-- R++ tv b++ DI-- D+ G e++ h* r+ y++**
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:22:14 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Invisibility spells revisited (was Re: [SR3] Area Spells)
In a message dated 97-07-31 06:44:15 EDT, you write:
> However, that is speculation (as, admittedly, is my reasoning for why UV
> vision wouldn't be affected by invisibility spells) since SR doesn't
> mention the actual "real"-world mechanics behind the spell. Does it bend
> light, as is suggested in many places, or does it make people take no
> notice of the target?
My take on it is simple. The mana version of the spell is specifically
designed to affect life-forms, and electronic imaging devices, ie cameras and
the like, "filter" out the effects. Think of it as a clouding of the mind, a
la The Shadow. The physical version, however, would bend light, as it alters
the physics of the setting to cloak the target. To my mind, Disregard simply
makes you so "generic" looking, anyone else who sees you pays no attention to
you either because your harmless or you belong there.
Wolfstar
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:24:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Kabael <kabael@****.NET>
Subject: Re: ReBoot Gaming Concept
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:26 AM 7/31/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I was watching ReBoot this morning (I really wish they'd show it at a sane
>hour, rather than 7AM... <Sigh>) and thought of an interesting idea to
>throw at yuor deckers.
>
>One of the concepts in the game is that these "games" get dropped in
>"Mainframe", the city that all the characters live in. The characters can
>enter the game by stepping into it (It appears as a HUGE glowing cube), or
>are sometimes thrown into it if it falls onto them and they can't escape.
>They are then forced to beat the game, and the "user", or else everyone in
>the game gets deleted. There may also be some other negative side effects,
>but I get to see the show so rarely, I'm still really sketchy on some of
>the concepts.
>
>Anyways, my point is, imagine if something similar happened inside the SR
>Matrix? Whether this is just an odd side effect of so many Video games
>that get played via the Matrix, or maybe even an AI having fun with random
>deckers. Either way, it might make for an interesting one shot for your
>decker, or even a random event that they get involved in from time to time.
>
>But, the deckers have to beat the game or they get deleted (Dumped with
>some mega shock and their decks fragged, or even killed).
>
><shrug>
>
>Just an odd little idea I thought of...
>
>Spike, you know more about ReBoot than I do... maybe you know what I mean
>and can explain the concept of Reboot better than I can,...;] i know
>you're a big fan...;]
>
>Bull
just be happy that it still plays there, I can't get it at all : (
American TV companies suck, they cancel all the good shows.
What if instead of having the players be the ones in the game, they
discovered that elements of the MAtrix were becoming sentient on their own
(maybe I am reading too much Mage with the Virtual Adepts). Has anyone read
_Count Zero_ by William Gibson? The kid in that book met *something* in the
Matrix that wasn't normal, what would happen to the SR world if metahuman
rights groups started calling for the recognition of virtual life?
k a b a e l meo the shoes :- ) kabael@****.net
some quotes from GoldeBoy, my very first Anime movie:
"This is SO educcational!" "This toilet overflows with my
tears..."
"Who started this?" "Is the music first?"
"When I took a nap, despite my cramming, my face became patterned like the
carpet."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:25:18 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nathan Ray <Gabrie6967@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Little Green Men
In a message dated 7/31/97 2:44:45 PM, you wrote:
>At present time I have to possible storylines ...
>
>
>
>1. Another UFO crashes ... And a Megacorp wants the technology
>
>
>
>or
>
>
>
>2. A few goverment and military men wants to return the US to its
>
>former glory and they wanna do it with the help of the Alien
>
>technology. And well naturally the MegaCorp would wanna put an
>
>end to this since a powerful goverment would be a pain in there side.
>
How bout the whole "mage go into space and die" deal? maybe discover some new
ways to envolve magic with alien?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:27:57 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nathan Ray <Gabrie6967@***.COM>
Subject: Re: ReBoot Gaming Concept
In a message dated 7/31/97 2:52:38 PM, you wrote:
>Hell, even if you just took some of today's games, you could have a blast.
>
>Imagine the players getting Stuck in Super Mario, a Street Fighter/Mortal
>
>kombat type game, or Doom...;]
>
Or Duckhunt <teheehee>
-Gabriel
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:30:32 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: help needed on researching campaign ideas.
In-Reply-To: <970731151237_-757510477@*******.mail.aol.com> from "Nathan
Ray"
at Jul 31, 97 03:12:38 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|Its Scotland... and fairly historically acurate... the Scots were always a
|thorn in the side for ALL the conquerers... Haiden' (sp?)
Hadrien's wall.... (I think I've corrected the spelling correctly, it's
closer anyway....)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:31:10 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Cartoons (Was Re: Hallucinogens in SR)
In a message dated 97-07-31 08:38:19 EDT, you write:
> ROBOTECH! I got introduced to Anime via that show. Great storyline,
> excellent story telling and a great sence of what fits. (I remember a
> scene (charcter names escape me at this point) where a peite woman is
> gonna blast some one with a bazooka, and she is comically, but very
> realisticly (for anime, anywho) knocked back) How much does it suck that
> Paliduim (AKA Power gamer central) has the RPG rights?
Doesn't suck that bad, since the game came out in their infancy stage. And
as far as Power Gamer Central goes, the only OCCs I've seen Palladium put out
that I CAN'T counter with a starting, albeit munched, SR character are
Cosmo-Knights(who lose their powers if they sneeze at you and don't
apologize) and Juicers(which are beyond sadistic in SR, and if anyone
suggests converting them, DONT)... Like any system, the players determine the
game quality. Shadowrun has a habit of attracting better players is all.
And I'd STILL rather munchkin in Palladium than play AD&D.
Wolfstar
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:34:02 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Barrier Spells
In-Reply-To: <199707311502.JAA10814@******> from "Chris Maxfield" at Aug
1,
97 00:37:36 am
Content-Type: text
Chris Maxfield wrote:
|
| BBB Page 109, right column, fourth paragraph down:
| 'Spells whose Barrier Rating (Force) drops to 0 are knocked down. If the
| spell is not knocked to 0, it automatically rebuilds itself during the
| casting magician's next action.'
So Gurth, how come you didn't know about this? ;)
-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:31:58 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Conjuring
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
> Date: Thursday, July 31, 1997 6:12 AM
> Justin Pinnow said on 6:45/30 Jul 97...
> > How about an easier way of doing something similar: Keep the system
the
> > same, but add a one-line rule stating that you cannot summon a spirit
who's
> > force exceeds your magic rating. Simple, neh? :)
> That is a fix that would stick closer to the "normal" SR way, though I
> have a feeling someone will point out that you can cast spells with a
> Force higher than your Magic Rating. (Self-fulfilling proficy? What's
> that? :)
You are correct. However, I like the current system. I also don't believe
that there NEEDS to be consistency between the different magical arts (ie
tests are made the same way,etc.). My above suggestion is that if you want
magic rating to have to do with Conjuring, you simply add a rule stating
that you cannot ever successfully summon a spirit who's Force is higher
than your Magic Rating.
That's a way of working Magic Rating into Conjuring without revamping the
system, for those of us who basically like Conjuring the way it is.
> --
> Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:38:59 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: ReBoot Gaming Concept
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970731152631.1cf766b8@***.tiac.net> from
"Kabael" at
Jul 31, 97 03:24:45 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|just be happy that it still plays there, I can't get it at all : (
|American TV companies suck, they cancel all the good shows.
Only ABC cancelled, which means, it wasn't cancelled.
It's taken Mainframe 2 years to make this 3rd series of Reboot, and it
should be making it's way to Canada in August and America in September.
On Claster (whatever that is)
And all I can say is, it's getting better and better.
3.1.1 (TO mend and defend) was BRILLIANT, with a new opening sequence using
Megabytes voice instead of Bobs (what with Bob being lost). Also a brilliant
rip-off of DOOM and Evil Dead II.
3.1.2 (Between a racoon and a hard place) was... was... I'm lost for words,
it's too good.
And as for tonights episode!
3.1.3 (Firewall)....
It had me rolling on the floor laughing... Well... my bed anyway....
I'm still seeing the opening sequence in my minds eye and giggling now....
I don't envy you yanks one bit, I can tell you.....
Can't wait 'till next week......
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:39:40 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Psychometry (Aura Reading)
In a message dated 97-07-31 09:26:11 EDT, you write:
> The Psychometry skill (a.k.a. Aura Reading) is not immediately derived from
> Intelligence or mundane Perception. Thus, if a character viewing the
> Astral Plane does not have the Psychometry skill, they must default from
> one of the following skills/attributes: Intelligence, Magical Theory, or
> Perception. Treat Intelligence as if it were located in the same position
> as Willpower on the Skill Web for calculating the default modifier. Also,
> treat Perception as if it were one dot closer than Willpower on the skill
> web for the same purpose.
A wee bit harsh, but that's beside the point. Or my point, anyways.
Psychometry is the ability to determine Aural imprints or impressions made on
mundane objects, not for Aura Reading. The two are separate and distinct
abilities, and while a large number of people can see auras, very few can
practice psychometry. I would recommend adding something in that takes into
account the actual definition of psychometry if you plan on using it to let
people read auras unless it would effectively unbalance your game.
Wolfstar
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:41:33 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Barrier Spells
In-Reply-To: <199707311934.NAA29140@******> from "David Buehrer" at Jul
31,
97 01:34:02 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|
|Chris Maxfield wrote:
||
|| BBB Page 109, right column, fourth paragraph down:
|| 'Spells whose Barrier Rating (Force) drops to 0 are knocked down. If the
|| spell is not knocked to 0, it automatically rebuilds itself during the
|| casting magician's next action.'
|
|So Gurth, how come you didn't know about this? ;)
I think he's losing his touch...
ANy more serious slips like this, and he might lose his mantle as Unofficial
shadowrun guru.....
>*tut*<>*tut*<>*tut*<
;)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:43:23 -0500
Reply-To: swordman@******.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Swordman <swordman@******.NET>
Subject: [OT] A Celt by any other name... (was: help needed on
researching campaign ideas.)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Nathan Ray wrote:
>
> In a message dated 7/31/97 1:53:54 PM, you wrote:
>
> >|Ummmmm, I've only seen the pilot so far but it seems to be a quasi
> >|historical television show about either Ireland or England during the
> >|year 500 when the Romans invaded and the Celts who fought them. They
> >|aren't doing much with historical acuracy on this one and the plot
> >|seemed weak but it may get better.
> >|
> >
> >Historical accuracy means little to morons in TV land.
> >I mean AD 500? They'd been in Britain well over 400 years by that point...
> >If they already hadn't left...
>
> Its Scotland... and fairly historically acurate... the Scots were always a
> thorn in the side for ALL the conquerers... Haiden' (sp?) Wall was built by
> the romans on the border of scotland,and as I remember, It took several
> hundred years...
So we have some who say Scotland, and I know some Scots who think It's
more Irish - I just say thier Celts!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:57:04 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: david lowe <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Spear of Destiny cont'd:
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 12:09 PM 7/31/97, William Monroe Ashe wrote:
<spoiler space for Willam's players>
>if Landon is lurking on this list ... no peeking.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I'm having trouble figuring out how to get it into their grubby little
>mits in the first place. I was thinking about rewritting Joseph Conrad's
>"Heart of Darkness" (aka Apocalypse Now).
>
>some ideas;
>
>1) the wierdo in the jungle IS the roman who did the dirty deed all of
>those years ago and can't figure out how to use it to die (already tried
>stabbing himself ... didn't work
>
Do it! Yes! I love the idea. Think about it, the roman dude is there, ho
hum, how boring, nobody can kill me. But then along come the runners who
don't want to off him, but want to steal the one thing that could
(potentially) end his miserable existance.
I would have the roman track them back to the big city however, causing all
sort of unrelated problems while they try to deliver the goods.
D.
David R. Lowe (dlowe@****.com)
Photography/Graphic Design
"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slob. It's my hobby."
-Daffy Duck
-
GC3.1 GCA$ d- s: a- C++++ U P L E? W+ N++ o K w-- O- M++$ V--
PS++ PE Y+ PGP- t 5 X+ R+++$ tv- b++ DI++ D--- G++ e++ h--- r++ y+
-
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:49:51 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 09:29 7/31/97 -0400, Steve Kenson wrote:
>The whole dual-natured ivy thing is just this: the awakened plants act as a
>Ward IN EVERY WAY.
...
>For example, a corp research building is protecting by a Rating 6 para-ivy
>grown over its walls. An astral projector with Sorcery 6 flys up and tries to
>pass through. The ivy attacks. Both sides roll Astral Combat Tests using
>their dice vs. TN 4. If the ivy gets more successes, it does combat damage
>like a Barrier, or 6M, if the projector wins, his successes reduce the ivy's
>Rating. If the projector wins the combat (ie, reduces the ivy's Rating to 0)
>he is able to pass through, but "the barrier remains intact against all other
>intruders." (SRII, "Barriers," p.147) just like a normal astral
barrier.
This has a believability problem for me. If you kill the astral form of the
ivy, the ivy should *die*.
Alternatively, there could be a form of Awakened ivy that naturally
creates a ward in astral space where it's growing in the physical world.
At 11:18 7/31/97 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:
>Quicksilver wrote:
>| My problem with this is that a mage can just stand off and blast the ivy
>| with a spell of some kind. Sure, he can do the same kind of thing to a
>| ward (shattershield spell,) but the ward is not vulnerable to mundane
>| attacks as well.
>IMO, such a defense would be backed up and layered. Put the dual-natured
>ivy up as your basic wall. Then toss a couple of watchers out there to
>watch the perimeter. Have a mage or two inside, with a couple of elementals
>on standby, ready to start wacking if something twigs with the ivy.
However, this is a great deal more expensive than just having an ivy-lichen
wall. One of the things I *like* about a standard, unAwakened ivy-lichen
wall is that it's an excellent astral barrier that isn't terribly expensive,
so it's believable that people are spending the nuyen for it. Whenever I'm
designing a target for shadowrunners, I look at the kind of expense required
to maintain it. Wards and magicians and elementals cost a lot; an ivy-lichen
wall has a modest startup cost and low maintenance, and can be used to make
life tricky for runners without making them say, "Hey! Someone must be
spending
like fifty kilonuyen a year on this ward!" Once an astral mage can start
quietly whacking ivy, it means you need a lot more expensive astral security.
(Wards, at least, ping their creators when they're attacked. Ivy isn't going
to do that.)
As far as I can tell, this whole need for non-astral living things to be
permeable to astral things comes down to FAB. If you don't worry about
FAB, living
walls are a splendid thing and everything works just fine. What if living
things
can stop astral forms, but only if they're dense enough? This means that
ordinary
bacteria flying through the air after someone sneezes won't blow an astral
mage
across the room, and that FAB, if it *weren't* a dual-natured critter,
would be
unable to impede a magician. Make FAB dual-natured so magicians can battle it
like Steve would like, but allow unAwakened ivy-lichen walls to remain useful
barriers. (When making the call about bacteria, it'd be good to hear
whether the level of plankton in the ocean qualifies as a barrier.) If you
want to capture a magician, you need a FAB net, because they'll just squirt
out
of one containing strands of algae. Cheap astral barriers remain available.
Living soil keeps mages from getting into your facility by going underground.
--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "So, an Arisian, a Vorlon, and a knnn go into a tavern..." %%
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:50:48 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Mundane Astral Perception
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> From: Nathan Ray <Gabrie6967@***.COM>
> Date: Thursday, July 31, 1997 3:16 PM
> In a message dated 7/31/97 2:05:28 PM, you wrote:
> >In my campaign, when astrally perceiving, nothing appears different
about
> >the mage on the physical plane. To look to his right, he changes his
point
> >of view, so to speak, but doesn't turn his head, for example. This is
just
> >my opinion, however...I don't think this is clarified in the canon rules
> >anywhere.
> whoops sorry about that, dropped the mouse... anyway, while astrally
> *perceiving* the mage is still in his body, so would be tracking things
with
> his eyes... maybe...
Not in my opinion. :) He's still using the same senses to perceive, thus
he can shift his astral point of view however he likes...in the astral,
IMO, you perceive with your aura. Unlike your eyes, your aura surrounds
your entire being, it doesn't have a fixed field of vision. You can shift
your perception around from one part of the astral to another without
moving your phsyical eyes, because you don't perceive with your eyes on the
astral (which is why a physically blind person is still allowed to astrally
perceive, if applicable).
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:54:46 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: ReBoot Gaming Concept
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:38 PM 7/31/97 +0100, Spike wrote:
>I don't envy you yanks one bit, I can tell you.....
>Can't wait 'till next week......
Oh? Really? So, I guess you don't mind hearing about b5 then eh?
:)
Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/
The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton
Gencon count down: 6 days
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:59:31 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nathan Ray <Gabrie6967@***.COM>
Subject: Aol Chats
To all you AOL members... come to the member room Speciel
Intrests-Shadowland... I want to see if I can get some Shadowrun discusion,
the first person to do an age/sex check gets twaped
-Gabriel
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:00:39 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Psychometry (Aura Reading)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
> Date: Thursday, July 31, 1997 3:39 PM
> In a message dated 97-07-31 09:26:11 EDT, you write:
> > The Psychometry skill (a.k.a. Aura Reading) is not immediately derived
from
> > Intelligence or mundane Perception. Thus, if a character viewing the
> > Astral Plane does not have the Psychometry skill, they must default
from
> > one of the following skills/attributes: Intelligence, Magical Theory,
or
> > Perception. Treat Intelligence as if it were located in the same
position
> > as Willpower on the Skill Web for calculating the default modifier.
Also,
> > treat Perception as if it were one dot closer than Willpower on the
skill
> > web for the same purpose.
> A wee bit harsh, but that's beside the point. Or my point, anyways.
I would like to hear more about what you feel is more appropriate, if this
is too harsh. :)
> Psychometry is the ability to determine Aural imprints or impressions
made on
> mundane objects, not for Aura Reading. The two are separate and distinct
> abilities, and while a large number of people can see auras, very few can
> practice psychometry. I would recommend adding something in that takes
into
> account the actual definition of psychometry if you plan on using it to
let
> people read auras unless it would effectively unbalance your game.
Well, that definition is more reality based in our world, rather than in
Shadowrun. In Shadowrun, it's basically used instead of Intelligence for
Astral Perception tests. That's it. It's not used specifically for
objects. I took it a step further to state that since Astral Perception is
based upon different senses that standard Perception, that not having the
Psychometry skill would be limiting to you (your physical senses just
aren't enough when it comes to understanding what you perceive on the
astral plane).
For more information on the Psychometry skill as explained in SR, read
Awakenings Pgs. 96-97.
> Wolfstar
Justin :)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:03:14 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <mbroadwa@*******.GLENAYRE.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Baylon 5
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:09 PM 7/31/97 +0100, Spike wrote:
>NO VISIBLE SPOILERS FOR B5!!!!
>
>NONE, NIL, NADA, ZILCH!!!!!!
>
>Got that!!!!
>
>(The previous bits were discussing the politics BEHIND the show, but I DO
>NOT WANT ANY HINTS, no matter how small, ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN THE
>PROGRAMME!!!!! I've already been told that Garibaldi gets back, and recovers
>his memory. NO MORE!!!!!)}
Then Spike, no spoilers about ReBoot? Ok?
Calm down, have some dip.
Rasputin-the-going-to-GenCon-for-free-magekin
http://www.bcl.net/~rasputin
http://www.blackhand.org/
The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be
when you kill them. -- William Clayton
Gencon count down: 6 days
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:08:39 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: help needed on researching campaign ideas.
In a message dated 97-07-31 11:03:52 EDT, you write:
>
> |I was watching "Roar" the other night (so far a slow starter, hopefully
it
>
> What's Roar?
Roar's a new show over in the US, fantasy type based on the struggles
between the Irish Celts and the Romans near the end of the Roman empire.
Historically, it's pretty accurate with some neat asides(the Centurion who
drove the spear into Christ's side as a 400 year old cursed mage is a pretty
neat concept), although a few Roman buffs who have seen it complain about the
Romans wearing iron armor - I guess they were still bronze at that point.
Wolfstar
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:15:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: help needed on researching campaign ideas.
In a message dated 97-07-31 11:06:26 EDT, you write:
> Historical accuracy means little to morons in TV land.
> I mean AD 500? They'd been in Britain well over 400 years by that point...
> If they already hadn't left...
Actually, it's Ireland, which the Romans were very timid about dealing with,
and it's a little closer to 450 C.E. than 500. The Romans aren't "invading",
because they're already established well in England, and have a few footholds
in Ireland(though not many). The props are somewhat accurate(at least they
didn't give the main character an english longsword or something, the sword
looks like a celtic sword with a polished blade), and the plot is pretty
decent. Then again, I'm predisposed towards any show where my beliefs are
shared by the good guys. =)
Wolfstar
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 21:15:57 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: ReBoot Gaming Concept
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970731145445.00910d90@****host> from "Michael
Broadwater" at Jul 31, 97 02:54:46 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|
|At 08:38 PM 7/31/97 +0100, Spike wrote:
|
|>I don't envy you yanks one bit, I can tell you.....
|>Can't wait 'till next week......
|
|Oh? Really? So, I guess you don't mind hearing about b5 then eh?
|
|:)
SIOB (Sharp intake of breath)
WELL AT LEAST WE'LL GET TO SEE IT ALL AT ONCE, (exhales), instead of broken
up every 6 weeks with reruns, the way america gets it.....
That's why for the past 2 years, you started the season before us, but we
got to see the last 5 episodes before YOU.
Only this time, C4 decided they didn't want to break it up at all....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 21:18:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] Baylon 5
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970731150313.009026b0@****host> from "Michael
Broadwater" at Jul 31, 97 03:03:14 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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|Then Spike, no spoilers about ReBoot? Ok?
I've really not spoiled much. I've just said how good it is without letting
any of the plot slip....
(At least, when I did put a spoiler for the opening sequence in two weeks
ago, I included spoiler space....)
|Calm down, have some dip.
Errrr.... What's in the dip?
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:22:41 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nathan Ray <Gabrie6967@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Mundane Astral Perception
In a message dated 7/31/97 8:53:49 PM, you wrote:
>> whoops sorry about that, dropped the mouse... anyway, while astrally
>
>> *perceiving* the mage is still in his body, so would be tracking things
>
>with
>
>> his eyes... maybe...
>
>
>
>Not in my opinion. :) He's still using the same senses to perceive, thus
>
>he can shift his astral point of view however he likes...in the astral,
>
>IMO, you perceive with your aura. Unlike your eyes, your aura surrounds
>
>your entire being, it doesn't have a fixed field of vision. You can shift
>
>your perception around from one part of the astral to another without
>
>moving your phsyical eyes, because you don't perceive with your eyes on the
>
>astral (which is why a physically blind person is still allowed to astrally
>
>perceive, if applicable).
>
>
>
>Justin :)
So you can astrally percieve to see behind you (eyes in the back of my
head... I like =))
-Gabriel
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:33:28 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: help needed on researching campaign ideas.
In a message dated 97-07-31 15:14:10 EDT, you write:
> Its Scotland... and fairly historically acurate... the Scots were always a
> thorn in the side for ALL the conquerers... Haiden' (sp?) Wall was built
by
> the romans on the border of scotland,and as I remember, It took several
> hundred years...
As far as I was aware, it's set in Ireland, but either way the Romans didn't
fare well. Come to think of it, they probably would've been better off not
ever coming to Britain in the first place, but that's moot. And the wall was
Hadrian's Wall.
Wolfstar
PS: My reasoning behind it being Ireland is A)Few people acknowledge that the
celts were anything BUT Irish, and B) The type of music used for the show
sounds more Irish than Scottish - reminds me of Enya and Clannad.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:37:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: ReBoot Gaming Concept
In a message dated 97-07-31 15:40:59 EDT, you write:
> I don't envy you yanks one bit, I can tell you.....
> Can't wait 'till next week......
Well, at least we get Babylon 5 before you do. Then again, if we want
models, we gotta look to England, and at 60 pounds sterling for a model of
the White Star, I'll pass thank you.
What I do envy you though, is Wales. I WILL visit there soon..... =)
Wolfstar
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:38:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Little Green Men
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:46 PM 7/31/97 EDT, John E Pederson wrote these timeless words:
>On Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:26:27 +0200 Jonas Bolander
><Jonas.Bolander@****.SE> writes:
>
>>> Does Area51 still exists in 2057 and who ownes it ?
>>>
>>
>>If you look at the map in the ShadowRun rulebook you'll note that
>>Roswell lies just inside the Aztlan border.
>>Interesting, isn't it ...
>
>Ummm...I think Area 51 (which is on Groom Lake in Nevada, I believe)
>would be in the NAN.
>
You know the location of Area 51? Wow...;]
Isn;t it supposed to not exist at all?
>Anther interesting site to think about:
>
>Wright-Patterson Air Force Base (Frag, it's in Ohio somewhere, can't
>remember which city), Hangar 18 or 19 there is supposed to contain alien
>bodies.
>
Dayton, Ohio.
Nellis Airforce Base, which is in.... Ummm... I can;t remember... Is
also a sight for Hanger 13, another name for Area 51/Hanger 18. :] there's
a few of them there sites floating around...:]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 07:50:25 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: [OT] Cartoons (Was Re: Hallucinogens in SR)
In-Reply-To: <33E07DC4.67C2@*********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> scene (charcter names escape me at this point) where a peite woman is
> gonna blast some one with a bazooka, and she is comically, but very
> realisticly (for anime, anywho) knocked back) How much does it suck that
> Paliduim (AKA Power gamer central) has the RPG rights?
Which is a pity, 'cause you could sure have fun with the experimental
planes out of Macross Plus :)
> Other Japanese favourites include Ronan Warrors (Is that still on? I no
> longer have cable), 3x3 Eyes (Yakamo!) some of Rama 1/2, Battle Angel,
'Snot fair... there's more episodes of Sazan Eyes (3x3 Eyes) out, a
whole new series... and I can't find them anywhere. :(
> the original Sailor Moon (if dic ever brings that back, thet'd better
> not chop it to bits again!), Mai, Psykic Girl (manga, but still cool)
> and the anime Street Fighter movie (MUCH better then the one with Jean-
> Claude)
Absolutely! And let's not forgetNinja Scroll, which is very Street
Fighter-y to my mind. Or anything else by Shirow, apart from Gunm (B.A.
Alita) - I've heard there's an anime of Appleseed - I want! Oh... and
the all time favourite - Gatchaman. :) (AKA Battle of the Planets, when
twas in its US incarnation. Japanese version's much better though.)
Lady Jestyr
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 07:57:15 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: [OT] Joker Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <11936.199707311330@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> She's OK for the occasional 30 minute episode, but she needs The Joker to
> bounce off for a full film, I think....
Which leads to the question: who the hell's going to PLAY her? Who could
get that Harly quality right?
Lady Jestyr
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 08:00:04 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Bandwagoneering...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970731075953.006dd8ac@****.lis.ab.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> And AFAIK it's Win95/NT only, so Spikey can't use it.
I think there's a Win 3.11 version too...
> It's much crummier than IRC anyways.. it's useful to keep track of people,
> but not much fun to chat with.
It would be OK, I think, if the server was more reliable.
Lady Jestyr
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:56:58 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Re: [OT] Joker Syndrome
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> Which leads to the question: who the hell's going to PLAY her? Who could
> get that Harly quality right?
Hey..How about Sandra Bullock??
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:12:11 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] A Celt by any other name...
On Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:43:23 -0500 Swordman <swordman@******.net> writes:
>So we have some who say Scotland, and I know some Scots who think It's
>more Irish - I just say thier Celts!
The show is supposed to be based in Ireland, c500 AD (and Spike: this is
a perfectly valid time period for the show). It is filmed in Australia
(apparently the producers or director or somebody decided that the
Emerald Isle wasn't quite, well, Irish enough:). BTW, the historical
Arthur is based in about the same time period (give or take) was supposed
to be a Celt (granted, he was on the other island...)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 08:23:26 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: [OT] Joker Syndrome
In-Reply-To: <19970731220038859.AAA514@*********.gj.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> > Which leads to the question: who the hell's going to PLAY her? Who could
> > get that Harly quality right?
>
> Hey..How about Sandra Bullock??
*sigh* I hope you're joking. :)
Lady Jestyr
-------------------------------------------------------------
Who says I'm crazy? I prefer the term 'sensibility deficient'
- Tamino
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:25:52 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Joker Syndrome
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:57 AM 8/1/97 +1000, Lady Jestyr wrote these timeless words:
>> She's OK for the occasional 30 minute episode, but she needs The Joker to
>> bounce off for a full film, I think....
>
>Which leads to the question: who the hell's going to PLAY her? Who could
>get that Harly quality right?
>
I don;t quite remember off hand, though I did hear a name... For some
strange reason madonna comes to mind (And scares the hell out of me...:]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:28:22 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Re: [OT] Joker Syndrome
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> > Hey..How about Sandra Bullock??
>
> *sigh* I hope you're joking. :)
Not at all..Think about it..Harly is kinda a cute character..And It
is about time SB played a bad guy..I think she could pull it off
quite well..besides she is deffinitely no stranger to the action
movie biz..and should be up for any of the more demanding stuff she
might be required to do..
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:30:49 -0700
Reply-To: granite@**.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Re: [OT] Joker Syndrome
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> >Which leads to the question: who the hell's going to PLAY her? Who could
> >get that Harly quality right?
> >
>>..... strange reason madonna comes to mind (And scares the hell out of me...:]
Hmmm..I don't know..she might be able to pull it off..although she
may be getting a bit too old for the part.. But I guess that all
depends of how they approach the character...And who does the
makeup..
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:41:37 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Little Green Men
On Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:38:33 -0400 Bull <chaos@*****.COM> writes:
<snippers>
>>Ummm...I think Area 51 (which is on Groom Lake in Nevada, I believe)
>>would be in the NAN.
>>
>You know the location of Area 51? Wow...;]
>
>Isn;t it supposed to not exist at all?
Officially, it might not exist even now. Reality-wise, it does exist.
They did/do a lot the so-called 'black' projects (the ones we're not
supposed to know about:). Former black projects include the F-117A
Nighthawk fighter-bomber (aka the Wobbly Goblin). Satellite pictures of
the place exist, but you won't find it (or Groom Lake, for that matter)
on any US govt map available to the public (unless its rather old). But,
as I said, people have been out there (it's out near Las Vegas or
something), and they couldn't really hide it from foreign or domestic
satellites. All this from an issue of Popular Mechanics from a few years
ago, countless UFO shows and multiple episodes of Discovery's Wings
program:)
>>Anther interesting site to think about:
>>
>>Wright-Patterson Air Force Base (Frag, it's in Ohio somewhere, can't
>>remember which city), Hangar 18 or 19 there is supposed to contain
>alien
>>bodies.
>>
>Dayton, Ohio.
>
>Nellis Airforce Base, which is in.... Ummm... I can;t remember...
>Is
>also a sight for Hanger 13, another name for Area 51/Hanger 18. :]
>there's
>a few of them there sites floating around...:]
Of course. That's the great thing about rumors:) Besides, it's kinda hard
to store 3 alien bodies (presumably preserved/frozen/whatever), and the
shattered/burned remains of a spaceship:) and it's easier to spread out
the resources at several sites than it is to shuttle the scientists from
all over to look at them:)
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:58:22 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Vorpal Monowhip
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:36:14 -0400"
<199707311730.NAA20748@***.ncweb.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Anyone done up a hit location chart for a monowhip ala A_&_'s Vorpal Sword,
> or Sword of Sharpness?
> How about house rules for lopping off limbs?
Umm, look at it this way, Monowhip is a dangerous weapon, look at its Reach and
damage base. If it does a Deadly weapon, the rules already account for
organ/limb damage. If it doesn't, figure it's a pretty glancing hit, only
nicked an arm or something. SR's damage system is vague, if you add things
like this, you have to remove the abstraction and treat *all* weapons like you
suggest doing for the Monowhip.
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:01:12 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Little Green Men
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:46:51 -0400 (EDT)"
<19970731.134518.18135.0.lobo1@****.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
You wrote:
> Wright-Patterson Air Force Base (Frag, it's in Ohio somewhere, can't
> remember which city), Hangar 18 or 19 there is supposed to contain alien
> bodies.
It's in Dayton, and I think you're mistaken about Hangar 18 supposedly being
there. *shrug* Been to the Air Force Museum there, but it was a loooong time
ago. :)
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:04:07 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Force Points for Initiation (was: The Chromium Mage)
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:15:16 -0400"
<970731141515_1513849650@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
You wrote:
> On Initiates: Who cares how common they are, when the majority of the runner
> teams out there effectively doubles the percentage of magicians in the
> general populace. Initiates are supposed to be rare, yes. Magicians in
> general are supposed to be just as rare in the general populace. How many
> teams have two mages?
A team of runners in no way represents the magically-active population
statistics, any more than a corporate structure does. Magically active people
tend to be certain lines of work, and if you don't like sitting astral security
for a corp, SRing is one popular choice. And groups I played with tended to
have two mages only if the group was large.
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:02:32 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Little Green Men
In a message dated 97-07-31 18:43:38 EDT, you write:
> Officially, it might not exist even now. Reality-wise, it does exist.
> They did/do a lot the so-called 'black' projects (the ones we're not
> supposed to know about:). Former black projects include the F-117A
> Nighthawk fighter-bomber (aka the Wobbly Goblin). Satellite pictures of
> the place exist, but you won't find it (or Groom Lake, for that matter)
> on any US govt map available to the public (unless its rather old). But,
> as I said, people have been out there (it's out near Las Vegas or
> something), and they couldn't really hide it from foreign or domestic
> satellites. All this from an issue of Popular Mechanics from a few years
> ago, countless UFO shows and multiple episodes of Discovery's Wings
> program:)
Yeah, it's also called Dreamland by the USAF's best pilots, because that's
where their dreams come true - fly the hottest jets ever, and a major pay
raise to boot! At least, that's the rumor. As for Nellis AFB, scrap that,
Groom Lake's about a half hour by chopper from Nellis, and the USAF would
want more space between sites.
Wolfstar
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:37:59 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TopCat <topcat@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] Baylon 5
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:18 PM 7/31/97 +0100, you wrote:
>>Then Spike, no spoilers about ReBoot? Ok?
>I've really not spoiled much. I've just said how good it is without letting
>any of the plot slip....
>(At least, when I did put a spoiler for the opening sequence in two weeks
>ago, I included spoiler space....)
How about we take this whole Bab5 thing to the Bab5 mailing list where it
belongs? It's done it's time here... moving on would be appreciated...
>>Calm down, have some dip.
>Errrr.... What's in the dip?
Don't ask, just eat... I mean, what's the fun in knowing?
--
Bob Ooton
topcat@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 22:53:23 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Little Green Men
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970731140157.081f3fba@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In message <3.0.16.19970731140157.081f3fba@*****.com>, Bull
<chaos@*****.COM> writes
>At 01:46 PM 7/31/97 EDT, John E Pederson wrote these timeless words:
>>Ummm...I think Area 51 (which is on Groom Lake in Nevada, I believe)
>>would be in the NAN.
>>
>You know the location of Area 51? Wow...;]
>
>Isn;t it supposed to not exist at all?
Area 51 is marked on standard maps (I think my Nellis range map from
Falcon 3.0 had Area 51 shown, it certainly showed Groom Lake).
What happens there is the secret...
>>Wright-Patterson Air Force Base (Frag, it's in Ohio somewhere, can't
>>remember which city), Hangar 18 or 19 there is supposed to contain alien
>>bodies.
>>
>Dayton, Ohio.
Site of the peace talks that put at least a temporary lid on the war in
the former Yugoslavia, so I doubt the alien remains are still there :)
>Nellis Airforce Base, which is in.... Ummm... I can;t remember... Is
>also a sight for Hanger 13, another name for Area 51/Hanger 18. :] there's
>a few of them there sites floating around...:]
Nellis is on the outskirts of Las Vegas, near the dreaded Groom Lake and
suchlike.
--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...
Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 02:32:32 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <runefo@***.uio.no>
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Organization: The University of Oslo
Subject: Re: Invisibility spells revisited (was Re: [SR3] Area Spells)
In-Reply-To: <199707310910.LAA01113@*****.xs4all.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> Spike said on 12:05/30 Jul 97...
>
> > Actually, I think the reason Thermographic works is because it's not looking
> > for reflected light (which the invisibility spell bends) but emitted light,
> > as in body heat.....
>
> However, that is speculation (as, admittedly, is my reasoning for why UV
> vision wouldn't be affected by invisibility spells) since SR doesn't
> mention the actual "real"-world mechanics behind the spell. Does it bend
> light, as is suggested in many places, or does it make people take no
> notice of the target?
>
> Both have their pros and cons.
>
> Bends Light Theory (BLT)
> Pro: provides a good reason for why others are able to see "through" the
> spell's subject from all angles. For the physical version of the spell, it
> also explains why cameras don't register the subject.
> Con: the subject wouldn't be able to see, since light is bent around
> him/her/it and so will not reach his/her/its eyes or other viewing
> devices. Also it doesn't explain why IR light (body heat) isn't bent
> around the target, except by using the explanation that only reflected
> light is affected, not light given off by the subject.
>
> Take No Notice Theory (TNNT)
> Pro: this allows the subject to see while under influence from the spell.
> Con: the Disregard spell (in Awakenings) specifically states this is how
> that spell works; it makes little sense if Invisibility does the same
> thing. It also doesn't explain why thermographic vision isn't affected,
> nor why cameras don't spot the subject of physical invisibility spells.
>
Transparent Theory (TT)
Pro: The character can see while under influence from the spell, and
also explains why IR can see the character, since he is only
transparent to normal light. (Spell description).
Con: How is (s)he seen by the perception test? Neither does it
explain well why (s)he is visible to cameras but not people.
Actually, the # of successes would regulate how well the transparency
works.. a few means (s)he's somewhat opaque (But blends in with the
background), while a lot menas (s)he's well nigh totally invisible.
(Giving the TN's to spot the character.. if the char's nearly totally
invisible (say 6 successes) the character is *VERY* hard to spot...
which seems reasonable to me.).
(Actually, since it's a mana spell, it only works in regard to
people. Selective transparency is a bit hard to swallow unless you
consider that magic isn't science, it's.. magic. It works under
strict laws but those laws aren't those of physical science. (You can
tell I prefer Hermetic mages, right? :)
--
Fade
And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:33:09 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Joshua T Brown <spamquat@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Bandwagoneering...
On Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:35:46 +1000 Lady Jestyr
<jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU> writes:
>Just thought I'd leap on the bandwagon. I have just downloaded and
>installed ICQ, so if anyone feels like dropping me a line my UIN is
>2439321. :)
>
Woo Hoo!
Mine is 2112514 .....
I loves me that ICQ.... <smirk>
My favorite feature is the ability to be paged when I'm online by
people....
L8r....
==============================================================
The Kumquat -- Josh Brown -- Kumquat@*****.com -- Spamquat@****.com --
Shadowrun Page Still Under Development -- Coming Soon!
"Support Whirled Peas" -- <smirk> -- "Whatever, Man" --
"Woo Hoo!" --
....Don't hate me Because I'm... ahh, screw it, hate me. <smirk>
==============================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:40:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Full of Life
In a message dated 97-07-31 03:06:50 EDT, z-i-m@****.COM (Tim Cooper) writes:
>
> eh? Where'd that come from? AFAIK the only thing that maintains an
> astral presence AFTER leaving *physical* contact with the magician who
> activated it is a spell lock, and if you remove it from who ever it was
> activated on, it too goes dormant.
>
> Did I miss some pages in SR2, the Grimmoire, or Awakenings.... or are you
> just quoting a house rule?
>
> ~Tim
>
Last I Knew, it was an SR rule, but now I can't find the ruling itself (so
kick me). However, the same holds true for sustaining spells so maybe I had
the two mixed up. However, sustaining a short-lived construct vs. a more
sturdy one might make things interesting.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:44:48 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Invisibility spells revisited (was Re: [SR3] Area Spells)
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Fri, 01 Aug 1997 02:32:32 +0000"
<199708010035.CAA02694@***.uio.no>
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> > > Actually, I think the reason Thermographic works is because it's not
looking
> > > for reflected light (which the invisibility spell bends) but emitted light,
> > > as in body heat.....
To your eye or a receiver, there is no difference between 'emitted' and
'reflected' light. It's light.
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 02:44:49 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <runefo@***.uio.no>
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Organization: The University of Oslo
Subject: The Mad Terminator Run Idea... ?
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I had this idea, I think it's kinda interesting but I do not know
quite how to use it. So, I let it loose on *YOU* !!
Okay, Ares corp (or some other) is well aware that a lot of
governments, UCAS in particular, is extremely conservative of their
manpower; in battle they prefer to sacrifice machines rather than
men. So they figure there's a market for humanoid hunter killer
robots. Okay. And they assign a small team to check on wether it's
feasible. Not much further down the line they make one. It's a
hellacious combat machine monster which looks quite human, and in
addition is capable of moving through society without arousing too
much suspicion (although stands out a little. It's designed to look
intimidating as hell.. they choose the looks of a certain 90's actor
as suitable. *cough* :). Since a machine does not have much social
intelligence they include an internal voice stress analyzer to check
if whoever's speaking is telling the truth or not. In the lab it
works fine. If someone lies to it, it starts interrogating them..
brutally.
Then they send it on a field trip.
There's a fatal flaw. The stress analysis device is too sensitive;
suitable for a controlled lab experiment but *NOT* a street trial.
Anyone that speaks to it is somewhat stressed, because of its
intimidating looks and inhuman 'feel'. So it registers that everyone
that speaks to it lies, and shall be interrogated.. brutally. As it
recognizes that the less brutal approaches does not divulge the
location of the target, it becomes more and more brutal; ripping
limbs off and so on.
Now, if the runners were supposed to babysit it through the job, if
they're hired to stop this lumbering behemoth.. or STEAL it... or
whatever.... any suggestions?
--
Fade
And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:53:11 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Full of Life (Cooling Down)
In a message dated 97-07-31 11:53:49 EDT, dbuehrer@****.ORG (David Buehrer)
writes:
> <picks up crowbar and pries his foot out of his mouth>
Keith takes crowbar from David's hands before it reaches the mouth thingy...
"You don't know where that has been ... Granite could have been using to
clean his teeth or something..."
> sorry about that. i'm in kind of a shity mood (work related) and you
> became the target of my frustrations. i hope you will accept my
> humble apology. and my apology extends to the members of this list
> as well.
That actually didn't need much of an apology IMHO, but I thank you
personally.
> I also want to thank you for replying to my BS post in a calm
> rational manner.
ME?!?!? CALM?!?!?!? RATIONAL?!?!?!?!
(whisper voice, just don't tell Spike, he thinks I'm totally whacked
anyway...)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:57:48 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Vorpal Monowhip
In a message dated 97-07-31 20:39:20 EDT, you write:
> One thing that still bugs me is that there's no limb loss chart for using a
> monowhip in SR.
>
> Every work of fiction that features these nasty weapons talks about how it
> just slices people into sections.
> However in SR, all you get to do is minor wounds.
>
> Anyone done up a hit location chart for a monowhip ala A_&_'s Vorpal
Sword,
> or Sword of Sharpness?
I would think that you could use a normal hit location chart(There's one
buried somewhere on the Shadowrun Archive somewhere, it's a .bmp file), and
you can get pretty descriptive from there.
Wolfstar
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:59:51 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Cartoons (Was Re: Hallucinogens in SR)
In a message dated 97-07-31 20:42:47 EDT, you write:
> Does anybody else out there remember Tranzor Z?
Bull, you just set off so many recognition bells in my head that I'm deaf,
but I can't remember anything else! Brief me? PLEASE? =)
Wolfstar
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 21:05:19 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Little Green Men
In a message dated 97-07-31 20:57:18 EDT, you write:
> Ummm...I think Area 51 (which is on Groom Lake in Nevada, I believe)
> would be in the NAN.
Yeah, the Ute Nation to be precise. Could always provide an interesting
diversion for anyone wishing to visit Las Vega - or is that Vegas?(Sorry, bad
Contact pun, seemed appropriate at the time).
Wolfstar
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:11:15 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Doc <wacansler@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Vorpal Monowhip
In-Reply-To: <970731205747_527679918@*******.mail.aol.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
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On Thu, 31 Jul 1997, George Metz wrote:
> In a message dated 97-07-31 20:39:20 EDT, you write:
>
> > One thing that still bugs me is that there's no limb loss chart for using a
> > monowhip in SR.
> >
> > Every work of fiction that features these nasty weapons talks about how it
> > just slices people into sections.
> > However in SR, all you get to do is minor wounds.
> >
> > Anyone done up a hit location chart for a monowhip ala A_&_'s Vorpal
> Sword,
> > or Sword of Sharpness?
>
> I would think that you could use a normal hit location chart(There's one
> buried somewhere on the Shadowrun Archive somewhere, it's a .bmp file), and
> you can get pretty descriptive from there.
>
> Wolfstar
>
what are the full stats for the vorpal monowhip???
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
|_/\
,--,;\) ==================================
,-"-..._\ || Just call Me ||
\_...._( ) || "Doc" ||
|o o )`| || Wacansler@*******.edu ||
___ /`._ / / || Wacansler@***.harding.edu ||
-==[___]\/; \' || healerofscars@*******.com ||
`B-'|_`,) --------------------------------
<'/||8`> || Yes you to can reach ||
__|::| || Me at the Psycotic ||
(__.';| || Friends Network ||
(_) ==================================
"Where's the KABOOM? View My Web Page
"There is supposed to Http://www.geocities.com/area51/8958
be an earth shattering Healerofscars@*********.com
KABOOM!!!!"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 21:09:59 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Cartoons (Was Re: Hallucinogens in SR)
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At 08:59 PM 7/31/97 -0400, George Metz wrote these timeless words:
>In a message dated 97-07-31 20:42:47 EDT, you write:
>
>> Does anybody else out there remember Tranzor Z?
>
> Bull, you just set off so many recognition bells in my head that I'm deaf,
>but I can't remember anything else! Brief me? PLEASE? =)
>
I didn't mention this one, but... Guess what? i remember this one as well
(Although only vaguely. It wasn't shown long around here.)
There were three giant robot driving by the three "heroes" of the story.
The main guy, Tranzor Z (I think), would shoot it's fists out.
There was also a woman, the "Princess" (I think) and a fat guy, and they
both had giant robots that looked just like them (The fat guys robot was
fat, and the woman had a "female" robot that had breasts...:)). I don;t
remember much e;se, but for some strange reason I seem to recall the female
robot firing "Breast missile" from her chest, but... That might be just a
delusion (Hey, I was in Junior HigH! The mind wanders... A LOT :)).
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html
"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 21:33:00 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Vorpal Monowhip
On Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:11:15 -0500 Doc <wacansler@*******.EDU> writes:
>what are the full stats for the vorpal monowhip???
There are none. "Vorpal Monowhip" just happened to be the title Steve
Tinner chose for the message, as it dealt with SR's monowhip and the
Vorpal blade from AD&D.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 21:33:00 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Little Green Men
On Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:01:12 -0500 "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117"
<KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU> writes:
<<It's in Dayton, and I think you're mistaken about Hangar 18 supposedly
being there.>>
No, that much I'm pretty sure about. It's not something they advertise:)
<<*shrug* Been to the Air Force Museum there, but it was a loooong time
ago. :)>>
Ditto. I think I was last there sometime in the Cub Scouts...I remember
being able to walk around a B-1 at the time:) Also got to see the only
remaining Valkyrie jet (weird-looking plane if I ever saw one), but it's
been a very long time.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 21:37:22 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: NightLife <habenir@*CUNIX.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: [OT] Cartoons (Was Re: Hallucinogens in SR)
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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>There were three giant robot driving by the three "heroes" of the story.
>The main guy, Tranzor Z (I think), would shoot it's fists out.
Nope he had finger tip missles.
>There was also a woman, the "Princess" (I think) and a fat guy, and they
>both had giant robots that looked just like them (The fat guys robot was
>fat, and the woman had a "female" robot that had breasts...:)).
I believe that you be Aurora and the Bobobot.
> I don;t
>remember much e;se, but for some strange reason I seem to recall the female
>robot firing "Breast missile" from her chest, but... That might be just a
>delusion (Hey, I was in Junior HigH! The mind wanders... A LOT :)).
They did fire breast missles. It was also mixed with scenes from the Great
Maznga(sp!) cartoon. I always wanted to catch that. But it never aired.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Goodie!
Maybe it's those Rocket Skates I ordered from the ACME company!
The last pair backfired and almost blew my legs halfway to my Duodenum.
But I'll get that pesky Road Runner yet.
With My Life's Blood I swear it!
"Deadpool #3"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 03:37:35 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <runefo@***.uio.no>
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Organization: The University of Oslo
Subject: Re: [OT] Cartoons (Was Re: Hallucinogens in SR)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970801074604.2458A-100000@*******.dialix.com.au>
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> > Other Japanese favourites include Ronan Warrors (Is that still on? I no
> > longer have cable), 3x3 Eyes (Yakamo!) some of Rama 1/2, Battle Angel,
3x3 Eyes is ok... I like the zombie kid.. Battle Angel is good too.
Wicked city is too gross.
AKIRA! Shame on you for forgetting... :)
> 'Snot fair... there's more episodes of Sazan Eyes (3x3 Eyes) out, a
> whole new series... and I can't find them anywhere. :(
What? More than 1-5? Damn.. it's not here either.
How's Orguss 2? Seen it?
(The teaser quote:
"War! I love it. Death, destruction and easy money... "
)
And Patlabot? It's supposed to be one of the major recent projects...
> > the original Sailor Moon (if dic ever brings that back, thet'd better
> > not chop it to bits again!), Mai, Psykic Girl (manga, but still cool)
> > and the anime Street Fighter movie (MUCH better then the one with Jean-
> > Claude)
None of the networks over here send anime at all, damn them. So I
haven't seen any of the televised series.. :( I only see what tapes I
can buy from the local importers.
> Absolutely! And let's not forgetNinja Scroll, which is very Street
> Fighter-y to my mind.
It's great. Lots of good fight scenes and interesting characters.
'Slightly' bloody, though.
> Or anything else by Shirow, apart from Gunm (B.A.
> Alita) - I've heard there's an anime of Appleseed - I want!
I've heard it's really bad. Dominion tank police as well, although it
has its good parts. (Anna & Uni). (The new series - Dominion (No
more conflict) is *REALLY* good..(Comic book only). I almost laughed
to death... Ghost in the Shell, too, of course, both the Anime and
Manga, is very good. I prefer the comic book, though. ("Shit it ain't
even a Tomiland. Waste of goddamn effort."... I like Batou.). Black
Magic is also by Shirow, IIRC. It's supposed to be good, but I
haven't seen it.
> Oh... and
> the all time favourite - Gatchaman. :) (AKA Battle of the Planets, when
> twas in its US incarnation. Japanese version's much better though.)
Mhm.. never seen it. Guess I oughta.
BTW the screenplay version of Crying Freeman's cool. It's got a
*HUGE* load of mood.. unrealistic, strange, but cool... and more than
a little shadowrunnery.
I've wondered about Angel Cop, but as long as each tape lasts 25
minutes and costs 40 dollars (equivalent)... I pass.
--
Fade
And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 22:04:55 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Duncan McNeill-Burton <Dreadnaut1@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Cartoons (Was Re: Hallucinogens in SR)
In a message dated 97-07-31 20:42:56 EDT, you write:
> >>>>> Bull didst say unto the aether thusly:
>
> # Yo Joe!
>
> # <grin>
>
> BobDammit Bull, Now I've got the theme song running through my
head!!
> !
> ARGGH!!
> "GI JOE (He's a real american hero)"
>
> Does anybody else out there remember Tranzor Z?
>
Yup...couldn't tell you about it to save my life, but the name rings a
bell...
Was I the only Spiral Zone fan?
Later-
Duncan
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 22:37:12 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Cartoons
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
The Spaceman once dared to write,
>>>>> Bull didst say unto the aether thusly:
>
># Yo Joe!
>
># <grin>
>
> BobDammit Bull, Now I've got the theme song running through my
>head!!!
> ARGGH!!
> "GI JOE (He's a real american hero)"
And knowing is half th battle.
> Does anybody else out there remember Tranzor Z?
Willingly or not? B>]#
- MC@** -
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 22:10:15 +1000
Reply-To: jade@***.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jason & Deanna Rodhouse <jade@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] Joker Syndrome
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> Which leads to the question: who the hell's going to PLAY her? Who could
> get that Harly quality right?
>
> Lady Jestyr
>
How about the actress who does the voice of Harly? It is my
understanding that they did the actual modeling for her based on her
body-type/face. IMO the perfect choice since she can also act.
Pilgrim
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 21:02:49 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Greetings
In-Reply-To: <970731135529_244995881@*******.mail.aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 13:55 7/31/97 -0400, you wrote:
> Heh. That'd be a great idea. Anyone wanna tell "us newbies" where we can
get
>the ShadowRN FAQ since the link from the itribe.net site is non-functional?
>Actually, the only ones that were functioning was the NERPS link, and the
>ShadowTK FAQ....
Address in sig file.
The mini-FAQ is due to hit the list tommorrow.
-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
From The Jury's Bench: http://www.interware.it/shadowrun/channel
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:13:14 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Spaceman <spaced@*.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject: Re: [OT] Cartoons (Was Re: Hallucinogens in SR)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970731211130.1fc7b30e@*****.com>
>>>>> Bull didst say unto the aether thusly:
# robot firing "Breast missile" from her chest, but... That might be just a
# delusion (Hey, I was in Junior HigH! The mind wanders... A LOT :)).
That's about all I remember from it, that Aphrodite A (the woman's
robot) had the Breasts-O-Death(TM). Something like that will scar a man for
life..
ObSR: New wrinkle on Maria Mercurial.... ATC didn't spend that much money on
cyber just for a skelecatary, perhaps the BTLs were grooming her for an
assassin's life later. Secret weapon: Tranzor Z's Breasts-O-Death......
ObSortaSR: For those into Battletech as well, perhaps you can give me some
ideas. My friends and I are starting a Solaris Campaign, and the MechWarrior
rules aren't up to our standards. So we're using SR. No magic/metas, but
the cyber presents an interesting prospect. Any ideas on integrating things
like VCRs?
The Spaceman |I must obey the inscrutable
spaced@*.washington.edu |exhortations of my soul
Check out the Bill Page! | - Calvin
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~spaced/bill.html
New maintainer of the Shadowrun Player Directory:
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~spaced/srdir/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 23:22:19 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Cartoons (Was Re: Hallucinogens in SR)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Duncan McNeill-Burton once dared to write,
>Was I the only Spiral Zone fan?
Well I remember the highly detailed Japanese toys from it and the
later American ones which were a pale imitation.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 23:50:00 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Hallucinogens in SR)
On Thu, 31 Jul 1997 22:04:55 -0400 Duncan McNeill-Burton
<Dreadnaut1@***.COM> writes:
<snip since I never even heard of Tranzor Z>
>Was I the only Spiral Zone fan?
Nope, I remember a little of the show (saw maybe two or three episodes)
from back whenever (it's been at least 7-8 years, probably more like 9),
they didn't actually broadcast around here, I watched it on channel 9 out
of Chicago, which we get on cable in this area. I remember it was a bit .
. . odd.
--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1
