| From: | "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Re: Why is everyone so happy with RBB2? |
| Date: | Mon, 15 Dec 1997 09:20:32 -0500 |
>
> On Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:03:28 -0500, "Ojaste,James [NCR]"
<James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
> wrote:
To begin with, I should probably apologize for my reply being
so testy...
> > If you're not interested in Riggers or Rigging, why on earth did
> > you buy "Rigger 2"?
>
> He he he, nice try, James. I *did not* buy this book, a friend of
> mine did.
Then I don't really see why you're complaining - you got your
money's worth, after all! :-)
> > If you're not interested
> > in a) that place, b) those events or c) that archetype, why buy
> > that book?
>
> Once again: i didn´t buy it. Hope this has become clear now.
> All I wanted to say is that FASA has published books before that were
> way better than this VR- or RB thing. Of course, this is MO (there
> indeed seem to be people on the list that *have* to read this "IMHO",
> or they feel personally attacked).
I don't know about that. VR and RB have covered new ground - there
were no (adequate) rules for the stuff that they do. I think
that a new sourcebook to provide those rules (and background on
rigging in general) was worth it.
> > I am. I even wrote a program to do the math for me. :-)
>
> This is fine for you. But for this price, I´d expect a little bit
> more than just a redesign of old stuff.
*blink* I've never seen shadowrun rules for Riggers contesting
over control of drones before. Or what's required to obtain
control of a CCSS rig. Sure, we may have known that some of
this stuff was possible, and we *did* have rules for vehicle
creation and combat driving, but even those have improved.
Rigger 2 provides lots of new stuff.
> > OK, let's get one thing straight. This is Shadowrun. No self
> > respecting Rigger would drive a coal-powered car.
>
> Man, you hit a nerve there. Let me get this straight:
> you are NOT to judge what a "self-respecting rigger" would drive or
> not. Who are you to say what character could/would do what things?
Sorry, personal prejudice, I admit. However, I don't think that
coal-powered vehicles fit in with the shadowrun universe. Ergo,
a rigger would have a difficult time obtaining one. Also, *most*
riggers (at least those portrayed by FASA) seem to be obsessed
with either high speeds or military vehicles (or drones or CCSS).
IMHO, of course. :-)
> Do you want to create the "typical rigger", the "typical sam",
the
> "typical decker". Hey! Get a-life! Roleplaying means diversity, not
> flat characterization.
Well, I guess the image in my mind is akin to a high-paid
shadowrun assassin using a blunderbuss. Sure, you'll be impressed,
and you'll remember, and his career probably won't last too long.
> > "Hey! But
> > I wanted to build an AT-AT so I could really kick butt!". Yeah,
> > right.
>
> IMHO it´s a sign of poor discussion skill to use ridiculous =
examples.
> Sorry, boy.
I see having an AT-AT as being much more likely in Shadowrun than
a coal-powered car. Coal-powered cars are slow, noisy, awkward,
large, smelly and probably quite expensive at the least. An AT-AT
is just an extension of the Walker chassis (make it extra large).
> > Corps will only build what they can sell. FASA only produces
> > rules for things that are likely to pop up. A coal-powered
> > vehicle is unlikely
>
> Riggers are not only people who tune their cars up. Riggers, (IMHO),
> are people who sometimes are inclined to build theor own vehicles.
> And this is where the FASA rules suck.
Well, as far as I can recall from the Riggers portrayed by FASA,
riggers generally prefer driving to building (or tuning). They
can afford to pay a mechanic for that.
> >, but the *system* is flexible enough that
> > you could just invent your own powerplant.
>
> Really [chuckles]. Without any problems? [chuckles] Show me.
Sure. Let's base it off the Sedan Gasoline engine...
Load 60/300
Speed 100/160
Accel 8/14
Fuel 60
Economy 8/14
We'll reduce the load (not as much power, and we need to carry
coal and water), the speed, the accel, increase the fuel and
decrease the economy:
Load 60/120
Speed 50/70
Accel 4/7
Fuel 90
Economy 2/3
How's that? It's just guesswork, of course, but you could try
and base these in reality if you like. Just look up the relevant
info...
> > Did FASA make
> > rules in VR2 for accessing the Matrix with a typewriter? I don't
> > think so.
>
> A counter-question: *can* you acces the net with a typwriter? NO.
> Again, using this kind of ridicule is not a very constructive
> criticism, right.
Sorry. I was just referring to the fact that strange technologies
are just that - strange. If it's that old, it's terribly obsolete.
If it's just alien, the GM should be creating the vehicle and
will therefore give it whatever stats suits his purpose.
It is *very* difficult to build a creation system for anything
that will be reasonable through all possible variations and at
each extreme.
> > > These are the reasons why I use the decking/designing rules for
> > > Cyberpunk2020 and (TATAH)
> > > the *GURPS Vehicles* Book. In it, you´ll find
> > > virtually everything for designing vehicles, not just cars, bikes =
and
> > > maybe jet fighters. Really, this book is definitely worth buying. =
I´m
truly
> > > impressed.
> >
> > But do those vehicles fit in with the SR universe? If not, what's
> > the point? Sure, Gundam-class mecha are cool toys, but in SR?
> > 'Taint bloody likely. :-)
>
> James, I *never* saif that I´d like gundam-style in SR.
Again, just an example of strange tech that isn't included in R2.
> What I wanted to say is that the Rigger Design rules are poor, not
> suitable to everyone´s wishes (unlike, for instance, the GURPS
> Vehicles).
I haven't seen GURPS:V. I'll see if I can borrow a copy off of
somebody (I'd probably buy it, but I just found a store here whose
supplier went out of business, so I picked up a bunch of SRII
stuff for $7 CDN - everything from Aztlan to Sprawl Sites :-) ).
> What I wanted to say was that we as roleplayers don´t terribly need
> new rules in a very rules-heavy system, and rigging rules at that.
> Next we see is rules for digestion, eh?
I disagree. Not everybody will use the rules, and those who do
will probably only use a subset, but having the rules at least
gives the GM a concrete idea of how hard it is to accomplish a
given task.
I don't think that SRII is terribly rules-heavy, either. I see
that you like Amber (I've been playing in an Amber campaign for
the past couple of years as well). It's an excellent system
for that universe (multiverse?), but it just doesn't work in SR.
I think that's about it...
James Ojaste
