| From: | Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Re: Full-conversion cyborgs <rant warning> |
| Date: | Wed, 17 Dec 1997 07:26:54 +0000 |
> <snip long post>
>
> >Okay, if you've read this far, I'm impresed.
>
> Yes I did... :) Now let's see if you have the attention span required to
> read this one :) In that case I'll be impressed too...
I did.
> <rant on>
*SNIP Soul in SR not fit with Full.conversion concept*
> So, basically, if a person replaced his/her entire body with cyberware, the
> soul would not be able to remain inside. Parts of it would start "falling"
> outside until the entire aura was dislodged from the body. The sheer feat
> of will needed to concentrate on keeping the soul inside the artificial
> body would be too much for a human mind. Even if this _was_ possible, it
> could not be kept up while the person was sleeping.
In SR, you *have* full conversions introduced in Cybertech. I was
trying to make a more detailed outline on how they worked, not
introduce a new concept. The argument wether they *should* be in SR
is another one completely...
> Ghost-imprint tech is IMNSHO _waaay_ beyond what is currently possible in
> SR. We're talking AI capability, here, on a very much portable scale.
> (human brain-sized)
Well... perhaps, but you have small chips which store and run
personalities, skills etc. (Dreamchipper). Also, in most cyberpunk
settings this is possible. Story - wise, I do not see a problem in
saying this is posible if the GM wishes it to be.
> In my book, the end result would be a sentient robot
> without aura (soul). Memories and even skills may be copied electronically,
> but the mysterious, arcane thing that is the soul cannot be transferred via
> technology.
Yes, it is, isn't it? :)
That's exactly what I hoped someone would notice - the ghost cyborgs
aren't human in any way. They just seem that way. But the question -
and the question in GITS - is, if they mimick a human well enough,
and think it is a human, is it a human?
(Also a theme of Blade Runner and numerous other cyberpunk
novels/movies. Which is a good reason to include them, IMO.).
> Now, if you make an enchanted orichalcium construct inside the metal body
> to contain the soul... Hmmm... maybe that is what we need to beat up the
> horrors when they come back in a few thousand years... :)
Personally I prefer not to mix .. metal and magic.. like that. But
what you describe is possibly part of what they do with cybermancy.
> Apart from that... Aren't they a little heavy? I mean, sure, something like
> 1.5x real weight for beta grade cyborgs, why more? Since you _do_ have the
> GITS cyborgs as inspiration, just look at Motoko's athletic capabilities...
> Lightweight materials, composite alloys, high-impact ceramics are
> everywhere in SR, after all.
Ghost cyborg first...
Well, the guys that walked over the weight detectors in S9 HQ weighed
600 kilos, IIRC. (This time, IIRC might well be wrong, it's a while
since I saw it.). That was, partially, what I based it on. Leafing
through the book it seems a bit heavy, but the Major do have a
tendency to dent stuff she lands on, cannot swim without air cushions
etc.
The robocop version is all steel and heavy compounds. I think any
weight might be appropriate.. as for the alpha cyborg, that should
probably be lighter. Anyway, weighing half a ton is kinda cool too.
:)
(Probably smartest to determine it on a case to case basis rather
than on a set value.).
> [And BTW I really hope you have _read_ GITS, not just seen the movie,
> otherwise the graphic novel is very, very, VERY well-spent money. Beats the
> film big-time IMO. Masamune Shirow simply is THE GOD of manga. :-)
> (Appleseed (no, not the film) kicks butt too!)]
Sure did, sure is. :)
> Back on topic... And, yeah, would a corp not prioritize long-term
> self-sufficiency of the cyborgs, and thus attempt to let them get by on
> normal foodstuffs only? Human food is easy to come by in a crisis
> situation, while specialized chemicals and even electricity are not. Then
> again, if they will be deployed like the unisols in "Universal soldier", I
> guess it will not be a problem. And then there's always the matter of
> regular maintenance and material stress, ofcourse.
Well, the plain version is the only one with strict requirements, and
it's .. the low - tech option not really suited for full conversions
anyway. Both alpha and beta models can get by on food only.
(Although at reduced efficiency in the long run.).
> As for the game mechanics you wrote down, I admit I did not pay much
> attention to them (since I do not plan to use this in SR. Maybe other
> games, though), but IMO the GITS cyborgs are the extreme of the extreme.
I wrote them up as fairly dangerous, but giving room for design
variations. I remind you that in GITS there was both agents and sex
doll cyborgs (or androids, as might be the case) which implies they
are not necessarily that extreme.
> They sould have physical stats based on model and size and be totally
> independent of the original character's body. Physical stats are probably
> in the 8-16 range. Perfectly balanced from scratch. Totally off (meta)human
> scale, deadlier than a small army and definitely NPC-only. :-P
I reiterate that SR allready has full conversions, but is very low
on details about them and their 'life', such as it is. I try to add
some detail, and in that, I also try to keep vaguely within the
framework or scale of the current rules. I gave the FCC's some perks
(reduced enhancement cost for the plain version, MBW for the beta,
etc.) in line with the fact the medical fees alone runs into
double-digit millions. There are other ways of doing this, too, and
as I also said, I hope SR adresses this issue in an upcoming
sourcebook. I, incidentally, feel that cybermancy is, partially, a
poor man's cyborg - using magic to overcome the shortcomings instead
of improving the technology. But that's just me.. :)
As for totally independent of owner's body.. I agree, and I don't. If
someone has a large, powerful body it is easier to make room for
mechanical muscle in it. But a starting strength of 3 is ludicrous,
though, IMHO, and a cost of 600000 to increase strength by 1 is
preposterous, also IMHO. It might be an idea to price it so that a
prime runner might afford an increase after running for a few years.
As it is now the price could have been ten times as high without
changing anything. Compared to muscle replacement.......... well.
--
Rune Fostervoll
"But the dread of something after death,
The undiscovered country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have,
Than fly to others that we no not of."
