| From: | Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Re: An Opposing View (Re: SR3 Magic Terms) |
| Date: | Tue, 30 Dec 1997 22:59:34 EST |
RN, but it's WAY OT....
An inspirational thought....
Just because people disagree, does not make either of them right or wrong, it
makes them who they are...
In a message dated 97-12-30 19:53:08 EST, losthalo@********.COM writes:
> No can do. One aura, changes to suit the persona active at the time, just
> like a person changing moods. Some MPD people are even difficult to tell
> when they change personalities, others are very obvious... but in any
> case, they're still effectively one person. They may be more fragmented
> than most people are, but it's only a matter of _degree_.
As is everything in the game, a matter of degree that is.
> Perhaps, but then you still run into the fact that I don't know how a
> spirit, who does such things instinctively within their native environment,
> teaches the mage who doesn't have the perspective to really understand.
> And I still think you're overestimating the kindness of these beings...
> Help, yes. Hand over one of their few unique abilities? Hell, magical
> societies hoard secrets, wouldn't spirits be careful what they give?
> Again, YMMV.
How could they do it? Let's see...Those with Sorcery could perform a
"Mindlink" or equivalent spell allowing for a spirit and a magician to connect
superficially and have one "follow" the other while projecting (starting with
as close to standard medium as possible in this case). How about
"Possession" or "Control Thoughts"....I know the former has Steve K.,
currently rethinking it's existence, but the other isn't so far off. A Free
Spirit with Possession and Aura Masking could mask the fact that it's
possessing someone and make it's aura "blend" with the individual it's
possessing. Or, Free Spirits with Astral Gateway could lend a hand of the
magician into the Astral, who is now using the spirits' "projection ability",
and spend a lot of time in the astral simply "practicing."
> If you are saying that such a power would add a modifier to tests to search
> astrally, the target numbers go high enough to become a hit-or-miss affair
> very quickly, due to SR's dice system (anything over a 6 is unlikely to get
> many successes).
But we both know that players tend to make it, -somehow-. GM's can do it, "if
they have too". And if it's hit or miss, is that such a bad thing? It would
lend a bit of reflection to the idea that the astral is still an "everchanging
medium".
> >Oh no, don't find something else. If you stop, then you stop. Figure it
> out,
> >what I mean that is...
>
> Well, see, I have a consistent view of how magic in SR works, and my
> viewpoint conflicts with yours on the subject of auras, among other things,
> and I try not to waste time on things that have to resolve as 'agreeing to
> disagree' after two weeks of 'argument'.
Did you ever hear about the guy who was consistent in everything up until the
day he was proven wrong?
> But the illusion doesn't appear in astral. You may or may not notice the
> illusion spell hovering next to its target, but you won't be seeing what
> the illusion is trying to pretend is there, in the astral. It creates its
> effect in the material world, that's all. Someone quoted earlier the
> passage that says as much.
No, actually the quote was concerning something else. Illusions spells can
have effects in the Astral, just not the Physical Ones. I think this is
something that should be considered (damn Steve, I hope you are reading this).
"Mana" Illusions have similar component structure to any other "Mana"
category
spell. It doesn't require the physical world to actually work, it is merely
within the mind of the user. The mind is still subject to disorientation and
the like. A "Manaball" can nail a target in the astral. A
"Disregard" (I
think I chose the right one here), is a Mana spell. It could therefore effect
the "mind" of the user, even if they are in the Astral, via Percpetion or
Projection.
Does that make sense? It follows for every other category of spells in
SR...what is the difference with Illusions of this type? Don't say it's
"because they are Illusions". I know this is SR, but in every game system I
have ever played, in order to actually "save vs. Illusions", you have to have
a reason for the person(s) to "disbelieve". I even remember reading this
concerning SR somewhere, but damn if I can't remember exactly where. I don't
believe it was Kage'....blast...(pounding head on desktop in frustration).
> >Fragile and Powerful all at the same time. And you are correct, making
> your
> >aura into something it isn't -could- (and has here) had negative side
> effects.
> >MANY variations on a theme in fact. For example, I mentioned making one's
> >self to appear like a Toxic Magician from the Winternight clan.
> Winternight
> >has "Threat Arrays" and make themselves outright powerful. If the
"Threat
> >Array" (which is somehow connected to the magicians themselves) get
> >threatened, it may very well defend itself (I'll post the basis of this
> >discussion on a stand alone entry).
>
> :watches things fly over his little head.
I'm making that post now...titled "Inherent Magical Response"....
> >But Halo...I can't even tell if you look like Keanu Reaves or Al
Pacino....
>
> :considers the THWAP.... Has olive loaf in hand....
...and the sloshing of water simply "teeming" with Carp is heard on the other
end....
> >Escalating it is already happening, we know that. It is unavoidable (evil
> >emperor voice on that last one). Every new spell does it.
>
> New spells fit within what was available before. Spells which break from
> the existing structure are not allowed, that being the point of the spell
> creation rules..
The point of the "known" spell creation rules. Those rules have loopholes and
don't actually establish "the limit", in fact leaving that completely open to
the GM's interpretation (which is as variable as there are GM's of course).
> Every new totem
> >entry does it.
> New totems, also are supposed to be balanced with the original totems, more
> variety not more power.
Really? Owl is balanced with Snake....Phoenix is balanced with Rat....Dog and
Cat are about the only truly "comparable" totems at all actually. The totems
and their guidelines are NOT balanced overall, they are balanced in comparison
to the atmosphere of a given game. Different totems work better with
different game groups and/or game scenarios. Wolf seems to work well in
general no matter what. But lately the "abstract" totems, like Sun and
Creator have been given the thorough development workout. It is part of SR's
flexibility. That same flexibility is what allows you to enjoy the game as
well as myself and countless others.
> Any new clarification on Aura or Astral Mechanics will
> >definitely do it (and that is what we are wanting even).
>
> I don't think the word escalation means what you think it means? I was
> talking about increasing power levels. Clarifying rules does not make for
> more power. New abilities or advantages make for more power.
No, a better understanding of a given ability or advantage makes for an
appearance of more power. I know exactly what escalation means. As the level
of knowledge of a given ability "escalates" in the game, the appearance that
said ability is "gaining" in power occurs. When in fact, it is not.
Reflective Shielding for example is not a "new metamagic", but merely a
different way of using the already established "Shielding" talent already
explained. Perhaps "Aura Distortion" is merely a different way, with similar
rulings to Reflective Shielding, of using "Aura Masking".
> >Then the GM's job will actually get easier...believe me, it does work.
>
> I'm afraid I don't quite follow here.
> *shrug*
I mean if the GM can encourage his players to come up with new material, be it
magical or technical or other in nature, then s/he doesn't have to perform
nearly as much work to keep the level of enjoyment for all for "falling in
interest." I know that not all players will do this, but I am happy to say
that many of the people from the group I just stepped down from are like this.
There is the munchkin(s), the power gamers, the morally possessive (who was
actually my favorite player and best friend) and the fun lover in that group.
But -ALL- of them like to get their characters to do new things. And if a
given character doesn't seem to have the ability, I used to encourage them to
try again. If that failed, then they were free to get a new character or to
try again and again and as often as they needed to try and have fun....
You were originally saying how people out there were complaining about
"magical escalation" ruining the game. My response is this.
Do something else then. It takes players to "escalate" and
"unbalance" a
given game, not just the GM. No House Rule will change that fundamental
Player Rule.
-K
