| From: | Unknown sender |
|---|---|
| Subject: | None |
| Date: | Unknown time and date |
> develop something else, but those attempts quickly died at the hands
> of this free OS that everyone was using. Why buy something, when what
> you can get for free works? This model grew in popularity until even
I think this statement needs an analogy.
Compare Windows 95 to Linux with X-Windows. =)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 17:23:47 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
In-Reply-To: <1219C178F0@**.opp.psu.edu> from "Brett Borger" at May 1,
98 11:34:33 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
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And verily, did Brett Borger hastily scribble thusly...
|This assumes they hear of it. While normally corps R&D depts and
|Intel depts are supposed to be well-informed, they spend their time
|and money looking at each other. Something the developed as Linux
|did wouldn't have promise at first, except in the eyes of the
|original developer (I'm seeing Linus as decker with a penguin icon
|:)) One or two revisions by the devloper and a few others interested
|in the challenge or the possibility, and suddenly it's chock full of
|potential and performance. So you pass budding. On to the next
|stage...
i just heard something recently about linus that i find quite....
enlightening....
Guess what the computer was that got him interested in operating systems....
Go on.... You'll never guess....
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 09:19:38 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Zeitgeists (Ghosts in Time?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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----------
> From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Zeitgeists (Ghosts in Time?)
> Date: Thursday, April 30, 1998 5:22 PM
>
> At 04:50 PM 4/30/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
> >Maybe I should just put a paper bag over my head and judge on the Gong
> >Show.
>
> Wouldn't that make you a member of GridSec then? ;-)
>
Oh, you bad person.
> >Might be... Webster's says it's something that embodies the spirit of a
> >time... So I guess the question I have with Uncle Sam is what time
period
> >does he embody? I suppose I could imagine him being the essence of WW2
> >American Patriotism. I guess Zeitgeists would also be fairly regional.
> >Hmmm... I'd imagine, however, that Zeitgeists would be pretty rare,
pretty
> >hard to summon, and most of the older Zeitgeists would be free spirits.
>
> Not to rain on your parade, but the definition of "Zeitgeist" as
"spirit
of
> the times" is merely a rough translation. Zeit means time, Geist means
> ghost or spirit. So it's a literal translation, but it doesn't really
> capture the meaning of the word.
>
Understood. I'm sorry if I explained it poorly. I'm admitedly a bit weak
on the point. The fact that they have actual zeitgeists in the World of
Darkness probably colored my thinking on this one.
> It's a German word that really has no true English equivalent. It's
> something that refers to the general mood or feeling of the times, and is
> usually quite vague and amorphous (like it's definition).
>
> Frag, I think it was one of those damnable German philosophers that
created
> the word, which means that unless you have a doctorate in german
> philosophy, no one is likely to really know what the word means.
>
> But I would argue against anything such as "Zeitgeist" spirits in SR.
> Doesn't make sense in the "official" SR cosmology. And even if it did
make
> sense, I would argue against it because a zeitgeist is so damn hard to
> define, and I don't just mean the word itself but what it is referring
to.
>
> I don't know, it would sort of be like having "happiness" or
"lust" or
> "melancholy" spirits, just as you have Hearth or Forest spirits.
>
Yeah, I got that mood or feeling thing. After I'd posted my original thing
and thought about it, I realized how damnably vague it was. But then, so
are "Spirits of the Fiery Firmament" if you ask me. =) But you did touch
on one of my major influences. Ubiritan's idea of Lumini was what gave me
the idea for this.
The idea I hashed out last night is that my so called "Zeitgeists" are
spirits tied to an object or place that symbolizes an era, time period,
event, whatever. They are very definitely a type of "Spirit of Man".
However, they are more in tune with social trends, and the emotions tied to
an event than they are to physical locations. So, you may not be able to
use them to search for a person in a city, but they may be able to give you
perspective on any influence a person had in their native time period.
These spirits would fit more with the scholars, and maybe the information
brokers, of the SR universe than the runners. Some of the potential ways
that I envisioned it using spirit powers may have some uses, but nuyen for
soy-donuts, I'd put my money on a hearth spirit, city spirit, whatever if I
needed help in a scrap.
I can do a full write up if anyone is curious. I even came up with a sort
of scholarly totem that could summon up these spirits.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 12:28:42 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Double Type Ammo
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Stephen Delear wrote:
>>> This has possibilities. "What? You want CHEAP ammo? Sure, only
>>> 1Y each! Fell off the back of a truck...". Whenever CHEAP ammo
>>> is used, each 1 rolled by the player subtracts one from the power
>>> of the attack. For every 3 1s rolled, reduce the power level by one.
>>>
>>> "Oh, so sorry - you meant *C-HEAP* ammo! My mistake..." :-)
>>>
>>Heh..Just like using crappy reloads today. (That is why professonals load
>>their own. :)).
>>I changed my rules, so if your using cheap reloads, a misfire occurs if you
>>roll any mix of 1's and 2's.
>
>Um I'm definatly not an expert on firearms but wouldn't the runners be
>using factory ammo and not reloads. I mean I assume that they're using
Possibly. You *are* buying weaponry and ammunition illegally, aren't
you? So do you know exactly how that box ended up in your fixer's
hands? Maybe he went out to the site of a firefight and started
scooping up casings...
(Assuming that buying ammo is illegal in Seattle - can't check
right now)
>caseless and even if they arn't I don't think they're going to stop and
>pick up shell casings or do you mean that they would be buying reloaded
>ammo for some reason?
Why would you assume that they're using caseless? It's much more
expensive and doesn't hold together in the rain (ah, but what's the
chance that it'll rain in Seattle on any given day? :-).
As for buying reloads, I think I just answered that.
Not to mention that some groups are so miserly with their ammo that
the ammo they pick off the sec. guards is more than enough...
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 12:36:05 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
In-Reply-To:
<cÊ%a=GOVMT.CANADA%p=GC+EC%lìNCR_EXCH2-980501155320Z-88906@***.ncr.ec.gc.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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> >I changed the topic and put us back on-topic, since I'm trying to tie
> >it into shadowrun.
>
> We've been discussing the relationship of the megas to independents
> in the 2050s. That's SR, isn't it?
That's what I meant...I took the [OT] tag off. Man, I really am just
failing at getting my point across today. :)
> >Mega #1 ties things up legally.....where? There is no legal entity
> >responsible for the new system...thousands of owners (no doubt a ton
> >of them shadow deckers anyway, the rest all hardcore geeks) crossing
> >national and corporate boundries.
>
> Sure - there are several legal entities responsible. Everybody
> who contributed, for one. Sure, lots of them cross national
> boundaries, but since when does that bother an international mega?
So Mega 1 sues Linus...in every district they can. Throw out some
lawsuits against a few of the major non-shadow BBS too. End result:
Mega spends a fortune in legal fees, Linus is broke and out of luck
(this is before he gets geeked. Poor guy :) ) Linux is still
getting developed by the other thousands of people.
> >Mega #3 kills the authors. Okay, poor Linus is toast. But the
> >system now has thousands of authors and developers...Linus has
> >already done his part. Sure, some of them will be scared enough to
> >back away, but all? Most? Enough?
>
> Life is cheap in SR. I'd say Enough. Sure, there will always be
> the hardcore "I'd rather die than give in" sort, but I'm sure the
> corps are willing to accept the exchange.
I'd tend to diagree. Corps are certainly free to engage is such
violence, but kill too many and people start to notice. Notice means
bad rep, which means a dip in the bottom line. Corp Shadowfiles had
a nice bit about that. Worse yet, there doesn't have to be proof
that the corp is responsible. Just suspicsion is enough for the
fickle public. Ask Robert Jewell.
> >viruses without getting caught. Legally? Hasn't even tried. Mega's
>
> I doubt that MS could write a virus without getting their buns
> toasted. Virii move much slower nowadays than in the 2050s, not
> to mention the millions of Linux users (not all of which are net
> connected, anyhow).
True. Also, I doubt MS could write a virus without
1) Having it not work
2) Except on their own systems
3) and blaming the latest delay in NT 5.0 on it.
> Legally? MS doesn't have enough money to try that, and it would
Wow, when MS doesn't have enough money for something, I tend to put
it on the list of things Megas wouldn't do in a hurry. MS isn't a
mega, but it still has a lot of money, which Megas tend to hold
rather dear...
> be cheaper to rely on what they're good at (FUD/publicity). They
Yup. I see a FUD campaign in the 2050's, but not a legal battle.
Esp since a legal battle lends authenticity to the opponent.
> Yeah, it's possible. I just see the ratio of power in the 2050s
> to have swung more towards the megas than the independents. MS
> isn't near the power levels of the A corps, let alone the AAAs.
> Independents are more likely to be willing to do illegal stuff,
> but so are the corps - I'd say it's likely that the corps win on
> that front, too.
Oh, I agree... just as the computer market now is corporation based.
I'm thinking in terms of recent additions. Fuchi, MCT, and 'Raku
have been basically dealing with UMS and custom hardware/software
algorithms. I see no reason why a "freebie" couldn't try and
compete. Maybe it wouldn't succeed....but if it lasts a while, it
could make for some interesting runs. Besides, isn't this exactly
how decker's utilities are spread?
-=SwiftOne=-
Brett Borger
SwiftOne@***.edu
AAP Techie
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 12:30:59 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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Spike wrote:
>i just heard something recently about linus that i find quite....
>enlightening....
>
>Guess what the computer was that got him interested in operating systems....
>
>Go on.... You'll never guess....
Minix. Linus wasn't satisfied with minix so he decided to write his
own version. Or are you asking about the hardware? If so, I'm not
sure. Probably a 286 clone of some sort.
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 17:29:21 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] Just space needed? (was: Mages and Space)
In-Reply-To: <3549D075.D8EDA0BC@************.com.br> from "Ubiratan P.
Alberton" at May 1, 98 10:39:01 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
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And verily, did Ubiratan P. Alberton hastily scribble thusly...
| I think the moon's soil is good enough to accept plants growing on
|it. The only problem is tha atmosphere and water, wich could be
|provided.
Also required would be oeganic matter in the soil (to bind it and supply
fertility), anaerobic bacteria, and nitrates.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 12:33:29 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Jeremy "Bolthy" Zimmerman wrote:
>> ease of use. And it was free. I'm sure there were attempts to
>> develop something else, but those attempts quickly died at the hands
>> of this free OS that everyone was using. Why buy something, when what
>> you can get for free works? This model grew in popularity until even
>
>I think this statement needs an analogy.
>
>Compare Windows 95 to Linux with X-Windows. =)
The main reason that Windows 95 is so popular today is that it's
compatible (more or less) with Windows 3.1 which was compatible with
Windows 3.0, which was compatible with DOS 3.3. Is that what you
meant?
After the Crash, you don't have to worry about backwards compatibility
anymore.
The most recent version (X11R6.4) of X-Windows is only free for
non-commercial purposes, too...
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 17:34:11 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
In-Reply-To:
<cÊ%a=GOVMT.CANADA%p=GC+EC%lìNCR_EXCH2-980501163059Z-88981@***.ncr.ec.gc.ca>
from "Ojaste,James
[NCR]" at May 1, 98 12:30:59 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did Ojaste,James [NCR] hastily scribble thusly...
|Minix. Linus wasn't satisfied with minix so he decided to write his
|own version. Or are you asking about the hardware? If so, I'm not
|sure. Probably a 286 clone of some sort.
How *dare* you insult my favourite computer in the whole wide world like
that?
:)
The Sinclair QL has a GOOD, preemptive operating system, it does
things that DOS could never do.....
And it was doing that 15 years ago....
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 11:36:51 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nate <nathan.olsen@*******.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Vampires
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980430192131.007b2ea0@******.backbone.olemiss.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Michael Broadwater wrote:
> You know, WoD and Sr aren't very compatible. What's the point of worrying
> about the Apocalpyse or Gehenna when they're 60+ years off? The current WoD
> incarnation has Gehenna, Oblivion, the Apocolypse, etc., just around the
> corner. It's the reason you'll never see a "future" WoD game. A member
> of the audience at last years White Wolf Roundtable asked about doing a future
> changeling in a cyberpunk setting. The response was something along the lines
> of: "Elves and Trolls with cyberware and magic? Hasn't that been done?"
actually i'm setting it within a year or so from those events.
essentially i'm going to give them a taste of what it's like to be under
the rule of the antedeluvians and Caine himself.
> While there's nothing inherently wrong with merging the two, I just think
> that you're missing the point of both.
not quite. i've played and Gm'd both quite extensively and am well versed
in "the point." that's why i've decided to take it in a new direction by
integrating the two. i'm not saying everyone should do it this way, it's
just what i've chosen for myself and my group, and they seem happy with
the idea.
Wolfchild
--
+ . . . ' . . . There are nights when the
` . .` : ' . + wolves are silent
+ . . . , , . And only the moon howls.
. + . ` .'"'`'. .
. - ,; .' _, `, ._ - . E-MAIL
/, _d' "\.: )'' ; /`k. + ZOMBIE@****.mankato.msus.edu
6;`\,dF' \. / | ,-;. ;Rb._,/ ZOMBIE@****.mankato.msus.edu
':;jGF7 , ,_f_)\-./ .TQhx.,
;`TZ' j4. `b. ,qNBk. ON THE WWW
.f' ,6RWb`, .,j,y;fg_. `;q/ http://vax1.mankato.msus.edu/~
' '7p9TFGb\;dk.`~.,jPk9,'itz zombie/lynx.htm
--
. . There are nights when the wolves are silent, . .
. _, .. . and only the moon howls. . .. ._, .
, )'' . /\_ . ' ,/\ . , ``( ,
_\__/ |__.'\._______,--;_'_`-.___,.______,/_,_`.__,-.__'__,/`-._,_| \____
,_f_)\. zombie@****.mankato.msus.edu @****.mankato.msus.edu /(_|_,.
http://vax1.mankato.msus.edu/~zombie/www/lynx.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 09:55:04 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Zeitgeists (Ghosts in Time?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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----------
> From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Zeitgeists (Ghosts in Time?)
> Date: Thursday, April 30, 1998 8:05 PM
>
> The Unknown Sender (whose posts I still can't get to paste/reply right)
wrote
> :
> -=-=-=-
> Might be... Webster's says it's something that embodies the spirit of a
> time... So I guess the question I have with Uncle Sam is what time period
> does he embody? I suppose I could imagine him being the essence of WW2
> American Patriotism. I guess Zeitgeists would also be fairly regional.
> Hmmm... I'd imagine, however, that Zeitgeists would be pretty rare,
pretty
> hard to summon, and most of the older Zeitgeists would be free spirits.
>
> I imagine the 2053 Zeitgeist would be a bit frightening.
>
> Anyone want to think up some stats and powers for something like this? I
> might try to cook up something tonight if I remember.
> -=-=-=-
>
> Ah, I think I have figured out what you mean now. Literally a "Spirit of
the
> Era/Year" itself. Okay, by that idea, Uncle Sam that I suggested would
NOT
> qualify. He's a Ghost from that year, one's taken on certain spiritual
> qualities and become more of a Spirit of Man type than anything else now.
>
> What you are looking for is a "collective embodiment of a given temporal
> reference". Yes, I knew of a definition like this, just not that name
(sorry,
> German isn't my strongest suit). I don't think you could get something
like
> to ever manifest except during the time period.
>
Yup.
> However, it would be an interesting twist on information gathering.
You'd
> have to have something -from- the year/time period in question, and it
would
> likely be Ritual for quite a while. We've got ideas on how to deal with
> Temporal Measurements within an abstract game environment. We call 'em
> "Chronums" and you can learn about them upon the Hacker House Web page...
>
Ve haf vays of dealing vith temporal measoorments.
Yeah, I kinda settled with the idea of having to have a physical embodiment
of an era required to summon it. Like a battered WWII helmet, or the
tombstone of a person who died from VITAS. I don't know about how to
summon them. I was thinking it would be in the province of a particular
type of shaman... kinda like how the Spirits of FF can only be summoned by
certain shamans and TNN mages who follow the paths.
> http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/intro.htm
>
> I think it's within the Magic section of the pages group, IIRC...
>
Couldn't find it.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:10:13 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alex van der Kleut <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Eurowars (Long)
In-Reply-To: <01BD74B1.BEC29AE0@********.u96.stevens-tech.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
<Quote from Timeline Explorer>
2033: On January 23, in Europe, Swedish airspace monitors detect several
flights of what
appear to be British Aerospace FA-38 Nightwraith fighter-bombers flying
across northern
Europe. In short order, the aircraft obliterate key communications and
command centers
belonging to both sides. At the same time unidentified commandos murder
several
hard-liners on both sides while the Matrix grids of both factions are
destroyed by a virulent expert attack program. With their offensive plans
crippled beyond recovery, the two sides announce a cease-fire the following
day. Although Swedish records indicate the planes origin to be in the area
of Great Britain, no nation ever takes credit for the Nightwraith
strike.(Source unknown)
<End Quote>
Notice some things about that paragraph? Going backwards, the first point
is the Matrix attack. This is the easiest to discount, because it could
have literally been anybody. All it would take would be a small group of
programmers to create the virus and send it out. The Matrix is only 2 tears
old then, so there's not much security out there. Almost anybody with good
resources could pull it off.
Two, those pesky commandos. In sounds like what they did was a general bump
off the brass operation. If they were unidentified, that means that they
weren't killed or captured, and therefore very good. Again, someone with
good resources, either a country, small evil group of individuals, or very
powerful individual could recruit/hire/blackmail/etc into doing this.
The third part is those pesky planes. The exact quote is "Swedish airspace
monitors detect several flights of what appear to be...". This means that
they were identified on radar. I just finished a radar class, and I know
that radar, especially air-control radar doesn't give you a picture of a
plane. To absolutely read what it is, you look at the transponder code,
which tells what the plane is and whose it is, and is shut off during
combat. The other way to identify them is to compare their specific radar
cross section and return to a known list of returns and find something that
fits. This is all done by computer.
"Although Swedish records indicate the planes origin to be in the area of
Great Britain..." That means that the first time the planes were detected
by the Swedes was in the area of the UK, and they watched them go in and do
their thing. Now two big problems with that are why didn't anybody else see
them, and where did they go when they were done?
One possible explanation is that the nightwraiths took off from a hidden
carrier/sub/floating base/etc nearby. Another is that they took off from a
point further away, flew low under radar (Nightwraith=stealth?) and showed
themselves near UK airspace to muddy the waters.
Of course, another scenario is: what if the planes never existed? People
said that the planes stayed in the UK that night. Only the Swedes detected
them. No one shot them down, any of them, in the middle of the war. Then
they disappeared again. Seems almost impossible. Sherlock Holmes, eliminate
the impossible, and the improbable is the answer.
The Matrix was vulnerable at this point. A virus was already put out
against both sides. Why not send your decker against Swede air control and
run a simulation? Muddy the water some more tomake it look like someone did
all the damage. And those key communications and command centers are taken
out by saboteurs. You try to figure out what happened, and along comes a
message about some planes spotted.
So who did it? Saeder Krupp is formed in 2037, but Lowfyr had money and BMW
before that was announced. Dunkelzahn had been around since 2012, and has
been shown to be the big manipulator. Tir na Nog? They form 2 years later,
but they do have good personnell and a capacity to think long term. The
UCAS? They wouldn't want to get sucked into another war over in Europe, and
pulled all of the troops out. Tir Tairngere? Maybe they wanted to end the
war so that the Irish didnt have cover to form Tir na Nog. Kill the war
quick and Britain isn't distracted, that sort of thing.
Maybe even a few key people from above working together?
So am I too paranoid or not enough?
Sommers
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:12:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: 2060 ENHANCED-cyberware
In-Reply-To: <199805010638.CAA31924@******.mindspring.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 02:36 AM 5/1/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Once upon a time, Ereskanti wrote;
>
>>Actually, IIRC, in one of the books, Alpha-Grade is now equal to Standard in
>>Physical Cost by the year 2057/8 or so.
>
> I don't recall that at all. Could you please quote that for me. I'm
>rather skeptical.
>(I hope this isn't more garbage from the Shadowrun Companion, that book
>really needs a second edition made).
I believe Gurth mentioned this also, drawing from the Cybertechnology book.
But it bears repeating. SOTA or not, Alpha cyber still is more expensive
than "normal" standard grade cyber, it's just easier to find and get a hold
of. As in, those that have the nuyen can purchase the "deluxe" datajack
(read: alpha grade) at the local public implant shop/hospital.
It's a bit like the difference between a Honda and a Jaguar. We all know
it's there, but without the CDBs (Cash Dollar Bills), we can't buy the
better car, the Jaguar.
Erik J.
"Oh my God, they killed Dunkelzahn! You bastards!!!"
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:13:37 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: 2060 ENHANCED-cyberware
In-Reply-To: <199805010635.CAA31149@******.mindspring.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 02:33 AM 5/1/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Once upon a time, Joshua Bell wrote;
>
>>As a part-time gamemaster I have come up with the following:
><snip>
>>What is you opinion?
>
>Well, I just checked the send date and it wasn't a lost post from April
>1st.
I can see how you sometimes get in trouble. The sarcasm from this was
literally oozing from my monitor. Bitch to clean off...
>In other words you've got to be kidding. It took about 5 years (sorry I'm
>not checking the books for an exact date on this one) to get from beta to
>gamma and a few more before hints of delta came out (which is only 2?
>years off your date). Your SOTA curve is way off.
The SOTA curve is horribly off; but that's not the only problem.
Okay, Alpha is an Essence reduction of 20%, Beta is 40%, Delta is 50% as I
recall. That curve indicates to me that is is increasingly difficult to
make chunks of metal and plastic (i.e., cyberware) Essence friendly. So
your next grade up, Gamma, might well be 60%, but Epsilon would probably be
65%, your "Super Epsilon" (run out of Greek letters did we?) would be 70%,
and there would almost certainly have to be a physical limit, a cap on how
Essence friendly something could be, like 75% or something. If cyber is
99% Essence friendly, it's nearly bioware, but you can't tell me that the
cyberarm with the implanted cyberdeck, gyroscopic stabilizers, magnetic
palm, and pop out shotgun is nearly all biological material.
And for the SOTA curve...the game is currently in 2059, and will be moving
into 2060, probably sooner than later, since the new Seattle Sourcebook
(due sometime this year) covers 2054 up to 2060; that means SR is moving to
2060 in as soon as a few months. So your "future" cyber is essentially
nearly here by the time line.
Now if you said this was 2160 cyberware, we might not hammer you as hard.
I can see that you made cost a balancing factor to try to make things
"fair," but you neglected to keep the idea within the spirit of what FASA
intended. Or at least that's what I believe.
Just head back to the drawing table I suppose.
Erik J.
"Ladies & Gentleman, the newest member of the band, the one and only Spice
Boy, GRUMPY SPICE!!!" <and the crowd goes wild!!!>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:14:13 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: OT: Babylon 5 news
In-Reply-To: <WA9n9AA+u6R1EwHe@********.demon.co.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Thought I'd do a service to the list by dropping some news.
I'm not going to include spoilers, but if you don't want to know that a
major character WON'T be in Season 5, skip the next paragraph.
First, regarding Claudia. From what I've heard and read, James Ojaste
basically had it right. She wanted time for movies, she and her agent
wanted it in her contract and still be paid for the full season (essentialy
asking to renegotiate for a higher wage). JMS said he couldn't give that
guarantee, he could write her out of an episode or two (something that has
been done dozens of times), but the contracts had to essentially stay as
is, and scripts HAD TO be written, or the entire 5th season would start out
behind schedule (not good when you've got a new boss (TNT). Apparently the
change in scale from syndicated TV to Basic Cable also meant a potential
drop in money for the actors, but all of them reportedly had zero problem
with that, except perhaps Claudia. It included cast members calling
Claudia to convice her to stay, media reports that Claudia said she was
quitting, and a lot of sturm and drang on the various B5 lists, groups, and
web sites.
Second, on the bittersweet side, for those that aren't aware, the final
episode finished principal shooting on March 20th. Apparently, the final
shot is in the Zocolo and if you look closely, you can see nearly everyone
who works on the show, from the Optic Nerve special affects folks to
costumers to interns to producers and so on.
Now, onto much much happier news.
On July 19, the second made for TNT movie, "ThirdSpace," will air. TNT has
taken this, and B5 items, on an 8-city US tour, hitting the big cities. I
suspect it's either over by now, or wrapping things up, but check out TNT's
B5 web site to double check; I know it was in LA about a month ago or I think.
On March 23, another made for TNT movie was announced, entitled "The River
of Souls." Reportedly big-time movie actor Martin Sheen is set to star in
it, along with the regular B5 cast.
A FOURTH!!! made for TNT movie, "A Call to Arms" was announced April 6.
When TNT bought the rights to broadcast B5 (and that's ALL they own, they
don't own the creative concepts or anything) they had a deal for two films,
with thoughts of a third. But now there is going to be a fourth B5 film made!
All of this indicates that TNT really is ecstatic about B5; it's one thing
to say you support a show, but another to actually pump time and money into
it. This all makes the B5 Rangers series an extremely strong possibility
(it's probably up to JMS at this point).
For all you furriners...I would suggest e-mailing Sandra Bruckner, editor
of Universe Today, the B5 fan club newsletter. She should be able to at
least refer to you to someone knowledgeable about the broadcasting of B5
outside of the States. Her address is: bruckner@**********.com
And now back to your regularly scheduled ShadowRN discussions...
Erik J.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:17:56 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
In-Reply-To: <199805011506.LAA04516@****.ctghub.com> from "Drekhead" at
May 1,
98 12:07:28 pm
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> On 1 May 98 at 11:34, Brett Borger wrote:
>
> > In addition, how many Mega's are going to seriously consider any new
> > system a threat until it proves that it can be one?
>
> That is the case today. Linux has been busy plugging along for
> several years, because MS never considered it a threat. Now Linux is
> getting enough attention to become one, and MS is finally taking
> notice.
>
> I think the OS war has become a moot point in the SR era for one
> reason: the crash of '29. Something that serious forced everyone to
> work together to get over it. I see programmers and engineers from
> all sides getting together to solve the problem. This integration of
> ideas developed into the UMS system used in the SR world that we
> know. The crash was a global crisis. In order to get the world back
> online, this new global, corporate and government partner developed
> OS was adopted by all, because of its support, security and
> ease of use. And it was free. I'm sure there were attempts to
> develop something else, but those attempts quickly died at the hands
> of this free OS that everyone was using. Why buy something, when what
> you can get for free works? This model grew in popularity until even
> the thought of paying for an OS or using something else became a
> silly concept.
>
> Of course, that's all IMHO.
>
I don't see this ever happening precisely like this. That many folks
working together. Nope. It would be whoever can get the best product
out first, to make the most cash, before somebody else does.
I'm still convinced FASA used the Crash, simply to regulate the level
of technology, and to make it so people like us, wouldn't argue (much)
about the "matrix" its protocols, OS, etc. :)
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:21:41 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
In-Reply-To: <199805011621.JAA27202@*********.cobaltgroup.com> from "Jeremy
\"Bolthy\" Zimmerman" at May 1, 98 09:18:19 am
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> > ease of use. And it was free. I'm sure there were attempts to
> > develop something else, but those attempts quickly died at the hands
> > of this free OS that everyone was using. Why buy something, when what
> > you can get for free works? This model grew in popularity until even
>
> I think this statement needs an analogy.
>
> Compare Windows 95 to Linux with X-Windows. =)
>
Guys the problem also is that a free product, doesn't have the
same investments behind it, because there's little to no money
being made. I love linux (and no my x-windows, doesn't look like Win95:))
but I still have to have a copy of Win95 for games, and MS Office.
Linux has come a long way (although their NFS support still needs some
work), but its not the same. I haven't seen anyone writing huge mass
market games for it, etc. Free software is wonderful, and it provides
a challenge to the megas, but it would most likely always be seen
in the hands of the "intellectuals" who liked to fiddle with their
OS, didn't mind things breaking, or writing it themselves. The masses
want somebody to call when it breaks, and to be able to wonder
down the store and by their programs. I don't see this changing even
by 2050. This is all IMHO of course.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:36:00 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: The Shop v1.2.5 and web site change
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Everybody who has wanted to add Suncell power to their vehicles (only
one person so far as I can tell) can now do so, as I have just
released v1.2.5 of The Shop (gee, who'da guessed it?).
There are *lots* of fixes in this release (I've listed 18 on the
change list :-).
However, instead of grabbing it from the usual place at UW, you should
get it from http://ojaste.ml.org/~ojastej/SRII/
because they're taking my UW account away at some point in the near
future.
I've updated the Shadowrun Webring to reflect the change, and will
be submitting the latest version to the Archive in a few minutes...
Man. I just finish my taxes and I get stuck with this. Sometimes
life just ain't fair. :-P
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:35:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paul Gettle <pgettle@********.NET>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
In-Reply-To: <1219C178F0@**.opp.psu.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
At 11:34 AM 5/1/98 +0000, SwiftOne wrote:
>Mega #1 ties things up legally.....where? There is no legal entity
>responsible for the new system...thousands of owners (no doubt a ton
>of them shadow deckers anyway, the rest all hardcore geeks) crossing
>national and corporate boundries.
==========
Internal Memo to all MCT employees:
All employees are ordered to remove all copies of MatrixLinux-OS from
their office, home, an portable systems. MatrixLinux-OS has several
security backdoors that pose a direct threat to sensitive MCT data. As
such, it falls under MCT Corporate Legal Code, Title 875: Executing
Unsecure Computer Code. Employees are reminded that persons caught
violating Title 875 will be brought before their local MCT Judical
Board, and penalties range from Demotion with 240 hours of Corporate
Comunitity Service to Full Termination without Benifits.
Have a nice and productive workday.
==========
Hear that sound? That's what, about 1/5th of the legitimate geek
userbase hitting the delete key to save their job?
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Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.3
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--
-- Paul Gettle (pgettle@********.net)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:11455339 (RSA 1024, created 97/08/08)
625A FFF0 76DC A077 D21C 556B BB58 00AA
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 10:34:09 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
> Date: Friday, May 01, 1998 11:21 AM
>
> Guys the problem also is that a free product, doesn't have the
> same investments behind it, because there's little to no money
> being made. I love linux (and no my x-windows, doesn't look like Win95:))
> but I still have to have a copy of Win95 for games, and MS Office.
> Linux has come a long way (although their NFS support still needs some
> work), but its not the same. I haven't seen anyone writing huge mass
> market games for it, etc. Free software is wonderful, and it provides
> a challenge to the megas, but it would most likely always be seen
> in the hands of the "intellectuals" who liked to fiddle with their
> OS, didn't mind things breaking, or writing it themselves. The masses
> want somebody to call when it breaks, and to be able to wonder
> down the store and by their programs. I don't see this changing even
> by 2050. This is all IMHO of course.
>
So in the end you have the deckers running their own OSs on their
computers, and the standard users running some mass-marketed crap?
Sounds about right.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:49:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Spike wrote:
>And verily, did Ojaste,James [NCR] hastily scribble thusly...
>|Minix. Linus wasn't satisfied with minix so he decided to write his
>|own version. Or are you asking about the hardware? If so, I'm not
>|sure. Probably a 286 clone of some sort.
>
>How *dare* you insult my favourite computer in the whole wide world like
>that?
Insult, what insult? It's not like I mind insulting your favourite
computer, but I'd like to know how to defend myself. ;-)
>The Sinclair QL has a GOOD, preemptive operating system, it does
>things that DOS could never do.....
>And it was doing that 15 years ago....
Well, DOS was based on Unix and CPM - each of which had preemptive
multitasking. DOS chose the worst features of each, discarded some
more stuff that was useful, warped the rest and sat there smugly as
IBM forked over the cash.
Unix was doing stuff that DOS could never do in the early 70s. I
don't remember exactly when X appeared on the scene, but Windows
has never matched it either. Beat that! :-)
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:48:38 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
In-Reply-To: <199805011733.OAA25470@*******.scescape.net> from "Paul
Gettle"
at May 1, 98 01:35:03 pm
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> At 11:34 AM 5/1/98 +0000, SwiftOne wrote:
> >Mega #1 ties things up legally.....where? There is no legal entity
> >responsible for the new system...thousands of owners (no doubt a ton
> >of them shadow deckers anyway, the rest all hardcore geeks) crossing
> >national and corporate boundries.
>
> ==========
> Internal Memo to all MCT employees:
>
> All employees are ordered to remove all copies of MatrixLinux-OS from
> their office, home, an portable systems. MatrixLinux-OS has several
> security backdoors that pose a direct threat to sensitive MCT data. As
> such, it falls under MCT Corporate Legal Code, Title 875: Executing
> Unsecure Computer Code. Employees are reminded that persons caught
> violating Title 875 will be brought before their local MCT Judical
> Board, and penalties range from Demotion with 240 hours of Corporate
> Comunitity Service to Full Termination without Benifits.
> Have a nice and productive workday.
> ==========
>
> Hear that sound? That's what, about 1/5th of the legitimate geek
> userbase hitting the delete key to save their job?
>
>
Possibly. But your forgetting that true "geeks" would never work for the
megas. :) Employees are the drones, the unthinking sheep. No matter
how geeky they are. True geeks are the independents. :)
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:50:21 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
In-Reply-To: <199805011737.KAA09485@*********.cobaltgroup.com> from "Jeremy
\"Bolthy\" Zimmerman" at May 1, 98 10:34:09 am
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> ----------
> > From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
> > To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> > Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
> > Date: Friday, May 01, 1998 11:21 AM
> >
> > Guys the problem also is that a free product, doesn't have the
> > same investments behind it, because there's little to no money
> > being made. I love linux (and no my x-windows, doesn't look like Win95:))
> > but I still have to have a copy of Win95 for games, and MS Office.
> > Linux has come a long way (although their NFS support still needs some
> > work), but its not the same. I haven't seen anyone writing huge mass
> > market games for it, etc. Free software is wonderful, and it provides
> > a challenge to the megas, but it would most likely always be seen
> > in the hands of the "intellectuals" who liked to fiddle with their
> > OS, didn't mind things breaking, or writing it themselves. The masses
> > want somebody to call when it breaks, and to be able to wonder
> > down the store and by their programs. I don't see this changing even
> > by 2050. This is all IMHO of course.
> >
>
> So in the end you have the deckers running their own OSs on their
> computers, and the standard users running some mass-marketed crap?
>
> Sounds about right.
>
Possibly. But you notice Linux can read HPFS, Vfat, etc etc.
NT can't read HPFS (in version 4), or ext2, or much else besides FAT and
NTFS. This goes back to the theory, microsoft doesn't have to destory
anyone, eventually you will use their product, because its all there is.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:51:50 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
In-Reply-To:
<cÊ%a=GOVMT.CANADA%p=GC+EC%lìNCR_EXCH2-980501174903Z-89169@***.ncr.ec.gc.ca>
from "Ojaste,James
[NCR]" at May 1, 98 01:49:03 pm
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Well, DOS was based on Unix and CPM - each of which had preemptive
> multitasking. DOS chose the worst features of each, discarded some
> more stuff that was useful, warped the rest and sat there smugly as
> IBM forked over the cash.
>
> Unix was doing stuff that DOS could never do in the early 70s. I
> don't remember exactly when X appeared on the scene, but Windows
> has never matched it either. Beat that! :-)
>
We're comparing an OS that has a concept of a user and process, to
one that doesn't. Then we're projecting this 50+ years into the future.
(When the market is only what 30 years old or so). Does anybody
else see problems with this. :) Ah well, it passes a slow friday that is
for sure.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:46:48 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <jeanpell@****.ivic.qc.ca>
From: Frank Pelletier <jeanpell@****.IVIC.QC.CA>
Subject: Re: Cyberware 2060
Josh once wrote,
>
> TYPE ESSENCE COST
>
> ALPHA (-20%) (this is at standard cost and Availiabilty)
> BETA (-40%) ( Cost x7, as per SSG) (Availability = +5 )
> *DELTA (-60%) ( Cost x12) (Availability = +9)
> *GAMMA (-80%) ( Cost x20) (Availability = +13)
> *EPSILON (-90%) ( Cost x100)(Availability = +20)
> *SUPER EPSILON (-99%) ( Cost x200)(Availability = +35)
Huh...
You know... technology can only carry roleplaying so far, past a point
where it becomes nothing more than "My toy is better than your toy",
adding nothing to the roleplaying enjoyment.
I think this fits in there. I mean... 99% essence reduction? For a
truckload of money only someone with God's checkbook would buy? That's
the basis of Munchkindom right there.
Now, I'm a fan of the "Street-grime-scum" level of SR roleplaying... I
like my games darker, edgier and somewhat more "punkish" than
"cyberish".
So maybe I'm biaised.
Creating new gear is fun, I agree. But you gotta take it to a new level,
not just adding more munchkin categories to already existing cyber. (or,
in this case, cybergrades). How about a drug dispersal system (I'm
working on one)?... A nanite internal repair factory with MASSIVE
drawbacks? etc. etc. etc...
Trinity
------------------------------------------------------
Frank Pelletier
Trinity@********.com, jeanpell@****.qc.ca
This message was brought to you by Killah Priest - "Heavy Mental"
"Life is a blur"
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Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:57:14 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question) [semi-OT]
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Lehlan Decker wrote:
>> > ease of use. And it was free. I'm sure there were attempts to
>> > develop something else, but those attempts quickly died at the hands
>> > of this free OS that everyone was using. Why buy something, when what
>> > you can get for free works? This model grew in popularity until even
>>
>> I think this statement needs an analogy.
>>
>> Compare Windows 95 to Linux with X-Windows. =)
>>
>Guys the problem also is that a free product, doesn't have the
>same investments behind it, because there's little to no money
I dunno about that - there are several companies making plenty of
money off of Linux. Caldera and Red Hat to name two obvious ones.
>being made. I love linux (and no my x-windows, doesn't look like Win95:))
>but I still have to have a copy of Win95 for games, and MS Office.
You should try grabbing a copy of StarOffice (well, if you've got
a decently fast connection). It's got the full suite (word processor,
spreadsheet, database etc) all bundled into an easy-to-install
package. The best part is that it's free for Linux users. :-)
Of course, I use HTML for all my word processing needs (vi
forever! :-), so I haven't used the word processor much. I have used
the spreadsheet to draw up graphs of dice combos though... :-)
>Linux has come a long way (although their NFS support still needs some
>work), but its not the same. I haven't seen anyone writing huge mass
>market games for it, etc. Free software is wonderful, and it provides
Well, apart from Doom, Quake, Quake II, Abuse and Golgotha. Yeah,
it's pretty much all id guys, but the situation's improving.
>a challenge to the megas, but it would most likely always be seen
>in the hands of the "intellectuals" who liked to fiddle with their
>OS, didn't mind things breaking, or writing it themselves. The masses
>want somebody to call when it breaks, and to be able to wonder
>down the store and by their programs. I don't see this changing even
>by 2050. This is all IMHO of course.
No, they don't want somebody to *call*, they want somebody to *blame*
when they have to explain to their boss why something broke/isn't
on schedule.
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 18:57:10 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
In-Reply-To:
<cÊ%a=GOVMT.CANADA%p=GC+EC%lìNCR_EXCH2-980501174903Z-89169@***.ncr.ec.gc.ca>
from "Ojaste,James
[NCR]" at May 1, 98 01:49:03 pm
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And verily, did Ojaste,James [NCR] hastily scribble thusly...
|Unix was doing stuff that DOS could never do in the early 70s. I
|don't remember exactly when X appeared on the scene, but Windows
|has never matched it either. Beat that! :-)
No.
In fact, if I ever did get a PC, which may become a distinct possibility
(as someone offered to give me one (ooo-errr...)), the first thing I'd do
would be to format the hard drive to remove all M$ viri, and instal linux.
Of course, then I'd install uQLx....
:)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
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Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:04:33 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyberware 2060
In-Reply-To: <199805011700.NAA03994@****.qc.ca>
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On Fri, 1 May 1998, Frank Pelletier wrote:
> Creating new gear is fun, I agree. But you gotta take it to a new level,
> not just adding more munchkin categories to already existing cyber. (or,
> in this case, cybergrades). How about a drug dispersal system (I'm
> working on one)?... A nanite internal repair factory with MASSIVE
> drawbacks? etc. etc. etc...
I think I remember reading that theat Birtish Princ guy from Streets of
Blood had a drug dispercial thingy in the back of his head... he used it
for enhancer drugs etc... now that is Better Living Trhough Chemistry
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Czar Eggbert
Ruler, Dark Side of the Moon.
homepage: http://travel.to/czareggbert.empire
mailto: czregbrt@*********.edu
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"I lived my life in a ship in a bottle in a world in a glass jar..."
-Mike Fontaine
"CRACK! SMASH! SHATTER!"
-Helen Stunkard
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:07:08 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Andrews <jmandrews@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <81F7A43B468BD111AFEC00A024EA0A2B09D35D@*********.polytech.ac.nz>
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On Fri, 1 May 1998, Danyel N Woods wrote:
> Physical cost? You take it mean the cost of installation and surgery?
> What about the surgery recovery-time costs; are they still at 'Alpha'
> levels, or have they dropped to 'normal', as well? (If so, why would
> anyone bother with normal-grade?)
>
Because at this rate, "normal-grade" cyberware would be a dime a dozen.
There are still plenty of down-and-out grunts on the street who wouldn't
be able to afford Alpha at standard prices, if you run anything likle I
do...
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 12:16:44 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
In-Reply-To: <199805011758.LAA20212@******.carl.org> from "Spike" at May
1,
98 06:57:10 pm
Content-Type: text
Spike wrote:
/
/ And verily, did Ojaste,James [NCR] hastily scribble thusly...
/ |Unix was doing stuff that DOS could never do in the early 70s. I
/ |don't remember exactly when X appeared on the scene, but Windows
/ |has never matched it either. Beat that! :-)
/
/ No.
/ In fact, if I ever did get a PC, which may become a distinct possibility
/ (as someone offered to give me one (ooo-errr...)), the first thing I'd do
/ would be to format the hard drive to remove all M$ viri, and instal linux.
/
/
/ Of course, then I'd install uQLx....
/ :)
<Red Leader> Stay on topic... stay on topic. </Red Leader>
<GridSec>
Guys. You are wandering dangerously near the off-limits subject of OS
wars (see the FAQ). Please bring it back to Shadowrun.
Thank you.
</GridSec>
-David
--
"That which we do not know supports that which we know."
- Joseph Campbell
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 14:18:54 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paul Gettle <pgettle@********.NET>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
In-Reply-To: <199805011748.AA138142@*****.scri.fsu.edu>
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At 01:48 PM 5/1/98 -0500, Lehlan wrote:
>Possibly. But your forgetting that true "geeks" would never work for
the
>megas. :) Employees are the drones, the unthinking sheep. No matter
>how geeky they are. True geeks are the independents. :)
Oh, please. If only 'True' geeks were to run this new OS that we've
been speculating about, then the userbase would never be wide enough
to remotely pose a threat to the Mega's iron griped control on what
runs on people's computers.
If it's big enough to worry the megas then it has to be apealing to to
the 'just geeky' also, and not just to the 'True' geek.
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--
-- Paul Gettle (pgettle@********.net)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:11455339 (RSA 1024, created 97/08/08)
625A FFF0 76DC A077 D21C 556B BB58 00AA
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Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 14:18:07 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Eurowars (Long)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980501131013.0080db60@*****.engin.umich.edu>
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At 01:10 PM 5/1/98 -0400, you wrote:
<snip Quote from Timeline Explorer>
That's also to be found in the BBB's "How it came to pass section."
>Notice some things about that paragraph? Going backwards, the first point
>is the Matrix attack. This is the easiest to discount, because it could
>have literally been anybody. All it would take would be a small group of
>programmers to create the virus and send it out. The Matrix is only 2 tears
>old then, so there's not much security out there. Almost anybody with good
>resources could pull it off.
Problem is, 2 years after the birth of the Matrix, the technology wasn't
highly widespread enough for "almost anybody."
>Two, those pesky commandos. In sounds like what they did was a general bump
>off the brass operation. If they were unidentified, that means that they
>weren't killed or captured, and therefore very good. Again, someone with
>good resources, either a country, small evil group of individuals, or very
>powerful individual could recruit/hire/blackmail/etc into doing this.
At this point in SR, it would still very likely be a government. Make it
ten years later, it's corps guaranteed.
>Of course, another scenario is: what if the planes never existed? People
>said that the planes stayed in the UK that night. Only the Swedes detected
>them. No one shot them down, any of them, in the middle of the war. Then
>they disappeared again. Seems almost impossible. Sherlock Holmes, eliminate
>the impossible, and the improbable is the answer.
Never thought of that before. And it actually makes a great deal of sense.
I think FASA want's those planes to actually exist, but your idea makes a
great deal of sense Mr. Sherlock.
>So who did it? Saeder Krupp is formed in 2037, but Lowfyr had money and BMW
>before that was announced. Dunkelzahn had been around since 2012, and has
>been shown to be the big manipulator. Tir na Nog? They form 2 years later,
>but they do have good personnell and a capacity to think long term. The
>UCAS? They wouldn't want to get sucked into another war over in Europe, and
>pulled all of the troops out. Tir Tairngere? Maybe they wanted to end the
>war so that the Irish didnt have cover to form Tir na Nog. Kill the war
>quick and Britain isn't distracted, that sort of thing.
Lofwyr? I don't think he has the resources yet; the money yes, the
resources no.
The Big D? Very possible, but it seems out of character for him. Unless
he saw that war as something that could engulf the entire world and turn
back the clock, as it were, but 50 to 100 years.
Either Tir? No. na nOg hadn't been formed yet, all those resources were
going into it's creation. Ol' Tir Tanglewood? Too far away for the
resources they likely have. I also don't see a strong motivation for them.
UCAS? They clearly have all the resources, especially Matrix at this time.
Question is motivation. I'm not sure they have, especially since they
have problems on the home front
Britain? Possible, but again, where's the motivation?
>So am I too paranoid or not enough?
Seems about right to me.
Frag, for all we know for sure, it could have been aliens or time
travellers from the future or something equally ridiculous.
Erik J.
"Oh my God, they killed Dunkelzahn! You bastards!!!"
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Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 14:18:59 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Gong Show
In-Reply-To: <199805011444.IAA03767@******.carl.org>
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At 08:44 AM 5/1/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Erik Jameson wrote:
>/
>/ At 04:50 PM 4/30/98 -0700, you wrote:
>/
>/ >Maybe I should just put a paper bag over my head and judge on the Gong
>/ >Show.
>/
>/ Wouldn't that make you a member of GridSec then? ;-)
>
>What's worse: to be one of the judges, or one of the contestents? ;)
Good point. You could also include the viewers of the show in that also
methinks.
Or a more modern, oh-so-hip-1998 equivalent? The Jerry Springer show.
Erik J.
"We know our products are killing people, but we're claiming the studies
are flawed. We're planning to focus our advertising on the youth market in
poor urban areas.
So, given all that, is it okay for me to steal office supplies?"
"I'd have to say yes." - Dogbert, Ethics Advisor to the MegaCorps
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Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 14:31:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: OT: Babylon 5 news
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>Thought I'd do a service to the list by dropping some news.
How is this a service?
I know a few members of Gridsec are B5 fans, but please, I for one am sick
of this clutter.
I don't watch B5, and have no desire to.
I'm sure there are B5 mialing lists out there, if not, go to
http://www.coollist.com and start one.
That way you can keep this OT crap off ShadowRN, OK?
Steven A. Tinner - feeling a little cranky today.
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end." - Semisonic
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 14:32:33 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
In-Reply-To: <199805011717.AA09364@*****.scri.fsu.edu>
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On 1 May 98 at 13:17, Lehlan Decker wrote:
> I don't see this ever happening precisely like this. That many folks
> working together. Nope. It would be whoever can get the best product
> out first, to make the most cash, before somebody else does.
There are committees working together now. EIA/TIA, ANSI, DVD
Consortium, etc. And that is just to set standards for operatability.
The Crash brought the technological, but more importantly, the
economic world to a halt. Such a catastrophic event would certainly
be a reason to open up the lines of communication. A jointly
developed OS would be the quickest and safest way to get back up and
running. Quick because so many varied resources could be poured into
it. Safe, because everyone shares the same code base (no backdoors,
because the others would catch it, or if there are, everyone knows
about them).
I don't think a company would go it alone. Too risky. A company may
certainly have developed and used their own OS, but who else would
adopt it? Nobody knew who created the virus. Fear and uncertainty
would keep corps from putting an outside product on their systems.
Security concerns would be high. No IT manager is going to put his
system back onto a global network, unless he can be damn sure who he
is connecting too, and what they are using. The development
partnership would solve that problem. The IT manager would know the
OS, and the players involved. Hell, some of them were his people.
The questions has to be asked; why would a corporation spend
resources to develop a none revenue generating product? It flies in
the face of capitalism. The answer is simple: without the global
reach they once had, most corps are in serious trouble. Their
sources of income have become severely limited. Do they spend
resources on a venture that guarantees they can get their computers
up and connected to the world again, or do they take a risk and try
and develop there own system, and hope it is adopted and accepted by
their customers and partners? No brainer. Most CEO's are going to
take the sure thing every time.
> I'm
> still convinced FASA used the Crash, simply to regulate the level of
> technology, and to make it so people like us, wouldn't argue (much)
> about the "matrix" its protocols, OS, etc. :) --
Your probably right, but you can still speculate a reasonable
explanation.
--
=================================================================
-DREKHEAD- drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
==================================================================
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Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:42:10 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Stephen Delear <c715591@******.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: [OT] Just space needed? (was: Mages and Space)
In-Reply-To: <35490922.8431E53E@********.co.at>
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>
>> However much technology advances, I'm not sure about it's being able to
speed up the process
>> significantly of turning a planet with a disgustingly heavy atmosphere
and even hotter
>> weather into something we could survive on. -Maybe-... just -maybe- Mars
could be done... it
>> does have an atmoshphere of sorts, and I guess that atmosphere could be
changed... though
>> I'm not sure where'd we'd get the necessary gas.... but whatever the
case, altering the soil
>> and atmosphere of an entire planet would take several centuries...
>
>I've read a (more or less) theoretical book about terraforming. There it
>says you can build up small atomic plants for chemistry factories that
>pump CF3 and SOF6 into the atomsphere to create a greenhouse effect that
>should heat the planet and melt the frozen water to create 02. And so
>on. There are many other (possible) things to do too to fasten the
>process.
Hum I wonder if you could g-engineer a micro-organism to do this. Nah
you'd have better luck getting the sulfter and CO2 out of venuses
atmosphere. Of course you'd still have to lock away a good portion of the
atmosphere and I expect at some point you'd probably need nanotech to take
care of the sulfer on the ground. Of course the real problem is speading
the planet up...
SteveD
>
>> I've some faith in science... I just don't think it will continue to
exponentialy expand...
>> and I don't beleive in the all-powerfulness of technology. All roads
have an end. :)
>> Stonebow
>
>So then my road seems a bit longer than yours. :)
>
>
> NT
>-----------------------------------
>
>Darkness is just abscnece of light!
>
>-----------------------------------
>
Stephen Delear
University of Missouri-Columbia
Check out my Photo Message Board at http://www.missouri.edu/~c715591
"Sometimes I do get to places just when God's ready to have somebody click
the shutter" Ansel Adams
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 14:44:22 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: OT: Babylon 5 news/SR TV
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Tinner crankily wrote:
>>Thought I'd do a service to the list by dropping some news.
>
>How is this a service?
>I know a few members of Gridsec are B5 fans, but please, I for one am sick
>of this clutter.
>I don't watch B5, and have no desire to.
*cough* Um, compared to the massive amounts of traffic recently, I
don't think that half a dozen B5-related posts are going to mean the
end of ShadowRN
>I'm sure there are B5 mialing lists out there, if not, go to
>http://www.coollist.com and start one.
>That way you can keep this OT crap off ShadowRN, OK?
Wrong side of the bed, Tinner?
Dragging this on-topic:
What kind of trid shows are popular in SR? The Odd Coven is the only
one I can really recall (apart from Combat Biking, Urban Brawl and
Desert Wars, but those are really sports).
How would the existence of magic and the matrix affect sci fi, for
instance? Some things (like Power Rangers) are just so far off the
scale of reasonableness that they'd still be around; techno-thrillers
wouldn't change much; mysteries are pretty universal. Space travel
has new dangers for mages - I'd guess a fair amount of speculation
in the area of "is their life in the universe", "is their magic on
other planets". I could see shows about AIs "escaping" the matrix,
probably not too much about dragons (who'd want to get something
wrong and be personally corrected? :-)...
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 12:26:49 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Goblinization and space
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>> Goblinization was caused and is maintained by the mana spike that
>> brought about the Awakening. Therefore would it be possible that if
you
>> were to remove orks and trolls from the Gaiasphere and transport them
in
>> to space that they might "de"goblinize and return to normal? Would
>> removal from the magic rich environment "cure" them?
>
>I would have to yes and no at the same time. Yes they would change back
>in time but not in a reasonible amount of time. BTW the Orks and Trolls
>are not the result of the mana spike they would have shown up anyways
>prehaps not as soon but as the magic was and is on the rise they would
>exist by this point anyways IMO...
>
Similar to shapeshifters, would not all things revert to their true
forms, depending on the environment they are in at the time? Of course,
this all depends on what you consider their normal forms, with or
without mana...
Tony Rabiola rabiola@**.netcom.com
Fourth and Sixth World Adept
Still working on the Fifth...
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 11:55:39 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Mages and Space
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>> >I should think that a child who was magical active wouldn't
"awaken"
as
>> a
>> >magician before returning to Earth. Because he has to tap into the
>> >astralplane. If you read Awakenings (p.15 "Becoming Prairi Dog")
they
>> >speak about "the sky is calling" and so on.
>> >
>> Are you saying that someone with the metagene would not ever awaken
if
>> they were not living within the influence of the gaiasphere? What
if
>> the sun or moon called to him as a totem?
>
>VERY VERY good question, one that would go a long way towards things.
>
>Strange, Mr. Kenson has been extremely quiet of late...
>
Maybe he is just furiously writing clarifications on all these things
for the upcoming revision and space books, and keeping all the answers
to himself...(laugh)
Tony Rabiola rabiola@**.netcom.com
Fourth and Sixth World Adept
Still working on the Fifth...
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 11:09:19 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Its that time of the year....
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>Along similar lines, is it possible them to take a "Totem" as a
Physical Adept
>at all? They don't deal with the bonuses/benefits for their abilities,
at
>least not without invoking some House Rules. And yet I've read
somewhere
>about them having to take the disadvantages.
>
>IOW, if a PAD takes a Totemic/Shamanic POV, then they do gain certain
>advantages. At the very least, they gain extra dice when resisting
spells /
>attacks from a given Spell / Spirit Category. Just something to help a
bit,
>IF the disadvantages are taken anyway.
>
Dunno about it being canon or not, but I have a PA in my game that
follows a totem (Dog), and for his role-playing the disads of the totem,
I allow some limited benefits to accrue from it. Wondering if I opened
a can of worms, however, cause now he is wondering if there is any way
he can use Initiation Magic points to ever become a full blown Shaman as
well. I was considering a Shamanic Adept because he is not one to
munchkinize things...
Tony Rabiola rabiola@**.netcom.com
Fourth and Sixth World Adept
Still working on the Fifth...
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 14:44:45 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: [GridSec] OT: Babylon 5 news
In-Reply-To: <001701bd752f$5e7ffa00$2506cecf@*****>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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On 1 May 98 at 14:31, Steven A. Tinner wrote:
> >Thought I'd do a service to the list by dropping some news.
>
> How is this a service?
> I know a few members of Gridsec are B5 fans, but please, I for one
> am sick of this clutter. I don't watch B5, and have no desire to.
> I'm sure there are B5 mialing lists out there, if not, go to
> http://www.coollist.com and start one.
> That way you can keep this OT crap off ShadowRN, OK?
Hi Steve! :)
Your right, of course, but I hope your not implying that this thread
was allowed to continue because someone in GridSec is interested in
it, because that's not the case. It will be squelched if it continues
past the allowed period of time, I assure you.
But thanks for your message. Maybe it will die quicker now. :)
(hint,hint)
--
=================================================================
-DREKHEAD- drekhead@***.net -* ShadowRN GridSec *-
Read the list FAQ - http://www.coastnet.com/~dvixen/srnintro.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Questions? Feel free to contact me, or any of the other
GridSec Volunteers: David Beuhrer <dbuehrer@******.carl.org>,
Gurth <gurth@******.nl>, Dvixen <dvixen@********.com>,
or the List Admin, Adam Jury <fro@***.ab.ca>
=================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 14:48:48 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
In-Reply-To: <199805011817.PAA27943@*******.scescape.net> from "Paul
Gettle"
at May 1, 98 02:18:54 pm
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> At 01:48 PM 5/1/98 -0500, Lehlan wrote:
> >Possibly. But your forgetting that true "geeks" would never work for
> the
> >megas. :) Employees are the drones, the unthinking sheep. No matter
> >how geeky they are. True geeks are the independents. :)
>
> Oh, please. If only 'True' geeks were to run this new OS that we've
> been speculating about, then the userbase would never be wide enough
> to remotely pose a threat to the Mega's iron griped control on what
> runs on people's computers.
>
> If it's big enough to worry the megas then it has to be apealing to to
> the 'just geeky' also, and not just to the 'True' geek.
>
I was being sarcastic. Besides even the "just geeky" population, isn't
large enough to pose a threat to the megas. Besides most of us who do have
linux or something else running, also have Windows, MSoffice etc. So they aren't loosing
money over us. :)
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:51:50 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Stephen Delear <c715591@******.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Eurowars
In-Reply-To: <35491041.309C72E5@**********.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:58 PM 98-04-30 -0400, you wrote:
>> But even more so, it's surprising noone had noticed the aircraft launched
>> from a regular airfield.
>
>> I'm thinking in the direction of rather bizarre gear right now -
>> a stealth carrier, or a small, submersible one.
>
>I think a -very- bizarre mood... I'm no expert on aircraft carriers, but I
>find it hard to imagine a submersible carrier... the water wouldn't slide off
>correctly on the flat sort of surface you'd need for planes to land... plus
>watertight hangar would take up too much room....As to a stealth carrier,
>well... I suppose it'd be feasible, but probably a tad too expensive.
>
A submersible carrier is feasable. They looked into it in the 50's but it
moved to slow with the tech they had then. I belive populat science looked
at the idea again a couple of years ago and found it much more feasible
(though with the cold war over no one's really in a hurry to build the
thing). I don't remember if the submerisble carrier was VTOL only or not
though. Also hiding a ship isn't as hard as you might suspect. You need
to know where the satallites are and keep under radio silence and probably
sail under a cloud bank (which won't do you much good against a radar
imaging sat I'll give you but will really ruin the day for an optical one).
Basically yes you can hide a carrier but the Nightwraiths WERE NOT CARRIER
LAUNCHED. Carrier landings screw up the avionics is stealth aircraft
that's why none of the present ones have tailhooks. Of course it's quite
common for present day stealth aircraft to be launched from afar and
refulled in mid flight.
SteveD
>>
>>
>>
>> Fade
>>
>> --
>>
>> ADVICE, n. The smallest current coin.
>> -Ambrose Bierce
>
>
>
>--
>Stonebow
>The mind is its own place, and in itself, can make heaven of Hell, and a
>hell of Heaven. -John Milton
>bodiam@**********.com
>http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/8427
>
Stephen Delear
University of Missouri-Columbia
Check out my Photo Message Board at http://www.missouri.edu/~c715591
"Sometimes I do get to places just when God's ready to have somebody click
the shutter" Ansel Adams
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 14:59:06 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
In-Reply-To: <199805011731.NAA05460@****.ctghub.com> from "Drekhead" at
May 1,
98 02:32:33 pm
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>
> On 1 May 98 at 13:17, Lehlan Decker wrote:
>
> > I don't see this ever happening precisely like this. That many folks
> > working together. Nope. It would be whoever can get the best product
> > out first, to make the most cash, before somebody else does.
>
> There are committees working together now. EIA/TIA, ANSI, DVD
> Consortium, etc. And that is just to set standards for operatability.
> The Crash brought the technological, but more importantly, the
> economic world to a halt. Such a catastrophic event would certainly
> be a reason to open up the lines of communication. A jointly
> developed OS would be the quickest and safest way to get back up and
> running. Quick because so many varied resources could be poured into
> it. Safe, because everyone shares the same code base (no backdoors,
> because the others would catch it, or if there are, everyone knows
> about them).
>
> I don't think a company would go it alone. Too risky. A company may
> certainly have developed and used their own OS, but who else would
> adopt it? Nobody knew who created the virus. Fear and uncertainty
> would keep corps from putting an outside product on their systems.
> Security concerns would be high. No IT manager is going to put his
> system back onto a global network, unless he can be damn sure who he
> is connecting too, and what they are using. The development
> partnership would solve that problem. The IT manager would know the
> OS, and the players involved. Hell, some of them were his people.
>
> The questions has to be asked; why would a corporation spend
> resources to develop a none revenue generating product? It flies in
> the face of capitalism. The answer is simple: without the global
> reach they once had, most corps are in serious trouble. Their
> sources of income have become severely limited. Do they spend
> resources on a venture that guarantees they can get their computers
> up and connected to the world again, or do they take a risk and try
> and develop there own system, and hope it is adopted and accepted by
> their customers and partners? No brainer. Most CEO's are going to
> take the sure thing every time.
>
Perhaps your right. However I see a whole bunch of consortiums, not
just one. The governments are going to have their own ideas of what
a new "secure" network should be. (Think about VCHIP, DES encryptions vs
others).
Megas will have their own ideas. Cooperation may occur, but human nature
being what it is, I just don't see it being that easy and bloodless.
What's a great quote "I love standards, there are so many to choose from"
> > I'm
> > still convinced FASA used the Crash, simply to regulate the level of
> > technology, and to make it so people like us, wouldn't argue (much)
> > about the "matrix" its protocols, OS, etc. :) --
>
> Your probably right, but you can still speculate a reasonable
> explanation.
But of course. If we couldn't speculate, the list would be a much quieter
and boring place. :)
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:00:33 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
In-Reply-To: <199805011816.MAA23549@******.carl.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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> Guys. You are wandering dangerously near the off-limits subject of
> OS wars (see the FAQ). Please bring it back to Shadowrun.
Ahem. About 5 or six messages before this I composed a wonderful
message ripping on Microsoft, and basically saying stuff we've all
heard before. I then deleted it. Seeing this message, I see it was
the right choice, but if you could all do me the favor of pretending
you read that message, were stunned at my logic and in awe of my
rhetoric, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.
-=SwiftOne=-
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 14:56:45 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
In-Reply-To: <199805011733.OAA25470@*******.scescape.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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> Internal Memo to all MCT employees:
>
> Hear that sound? That's what, about 1/5th of the legitimate geek
> userbase hitting the delete key to save their job?
Uh huh. And how many people pirate software, use mp3's, copy
videotapes, and otherwise bootleg stuff? Nice theory, but reality
seems to be on my side here.
-=SwiftOne=-
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:04:19 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: 2060 ENHANCED-cyberware
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980501091848.08cf6c40@****.fbiz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> >Well, I just checked the send date and it wasn't a lost post from April
> >1st.
>
> I can see how you sometimes get in trouble. The sarcasm from this
> was literally oozing from my monitor. Bitch to clean off...
LOL!
> Okay, Alpha is an Essence reduction of 20%, Beta is 40%, Delta is
> 50% as I recall. That curve indicates to me that is is increasingly
> difficult to make chunks of metal and plastic (i.e., cyberware)
> Essence friendly. So your next grade up, Gamma, might well be 60%,
> but Epsilon would probably be 65%, your "Super Epsilon" (run out of
> Greek letters did we?) would be 70%, and there would almost
Not to mention that he has gamma following delta...why didn't he just
leave it out?
-=SwiftOne=-
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:17:17 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paul Gettle <pgettle@********.NET>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
In-Reply-To: <15A7F262D1@**.opp.psu.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
At 02:56 PM 5/1/98 -0500, SwiftOne wrote:
>Uh huh. And how many people pirate software, use mp3's, copy
>videotapes, and otherwise bootleg stuff? Nice theory, but reality
>seems to be on my side here.
Which reality in particular, 1998, or 205X?
- From everything I've read in the sourcebooks, living as a citizen of
an extraterritorial would be similar to the experience of living under
a totalitarian regime. A benevelent one, I'll grant you, but still.
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Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.3
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--
-- Paul Gettle (pgettle@********.net)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:11455339 (RSA 1024, created 97/08/08)
625A FFF0 76DC A077 D21C 556B BB58 00AA
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:22:20 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jessica Grota <grota@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberware 2060/Jettware!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Oliver McDonald wrote:
>
> On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 23:29:43 -0400, Jessica Grota wrote:
>
> >Personally, I'm a cyber fiend myself, but the epsilon stuff is best left
> >nearly unattainable. As it is, I have problems finding GMs who will
> >accept Jett, due to the fact that most of her cyber is Delta (circa
> >2057/58). Still, it's an interesting concept.
>
> Me too, but My GM won't let me get near a delta clinic. I am interested, though, in
what
> you have used for Jett. Care to share?
>
Sure. Jett's cyber is:
Cyberware:
Retractable Hand Razors (Dikote) .2
Muscle Replacement level 4 delta 2
Cybereyes .2
low-light enhancement
Wired reflexes level 2 delta 1.5
Headware Radio (comm set) delta .25
Smartlink 2 delta .25
Pretty standard by street sam standards, I think. Although in
starting-char runs, she gets passed up for being too powerful/being
packed full of deltaware. Luckily, she fits right in with the more
high-powered campaigns, or as power support on lower level stuff.
And, I think to my credit, believe it or not I RPed Jett's adjustment
to Muscle Rep and Wired 2, since she got those post char-gen. It was
really pretty funny: Jett stumbles around her apartment in hyper-drive,
knocking over things, breaking the shower handle...as my GM dubbed her,
Jett was temporarily a "Walking Urban Renewal spell". :)
--Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:16:08 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Joshuwa Jenkins <colossus@***********.NET>
Subject: Re: Info wanted
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Ubiratan P. Alberton wrote:
> Then B.I works like Essence, only it increases instead of decreasing?
>What's the limit?
> Ubiratan
Well your max Body Index is equal to your unaugmented Body attribute.
So if you have a 5 in Body, your Body can hold/take the stress of 5 points of
Body index.
Each piece of Bioware as a modifier for Body Index loss.
Of the top of my head say a Cerebral Booster(2) as a Body Index modifier of .8
So you would add .8 to your body index, and still have 4.2 left to play with.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 21:19:45 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Rune Fostervoll <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: OT: Babylon 5 news
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980501094001.2fc7522c@****.fbiz.com> (message from
Erik Jameson on Fri, 1 May 1998 13:14:13 -0400)
This is about Babylon 5, which appears to be of significant interest to
most of the list's denizens. It is OT.
SPOILER: Early season 5. Don't read if you haven't gotten the 'news' about
any cast changes yet.
'
'
'
'
'
'
'
'
'
'
'
'
'
'
That oughta do it.
There's three sides to the story of why Claudia is not in season 5.
The third side first - mine. I regret it, I liked the character Ivanova.
The first and second sides is those of Claudia and JMS.
I should perhaps quote it, but that is beyond the scope of interest of this
list. Check:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/brain/b5.htm
for a quote from both JMS and Claudia about it. It always pays to get both
sides of the story. Always.
--
Fade
ADVICE, n. The smallest current coin.
-Ambrose Bierce
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:11:20 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Eurowars (Long)
<snip: Whole nightwraith incident is virtual>
>So who did it?
The Bavarian Illuminati of course.
Double-Domed Mike
-Fnord There is no sig here.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:22:24 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question) [semi-OT]
In-Reply-To:
<cÊ%a=GOVMT.CANADA%p=GC+EC%lìNCR_EXCH2-980501175714Z-89196@***.ncr.ec.gc.ca>
from "Ojaste,James
[NCR]" at May 1, 98 01:57:14 pm
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>
> Lehlan Decker wrote:
> >>
> >Guys the problem also is that a free product, doesn't have the
> >same investments behind it, because there's little to no money
>
> I dunno about that - there are several companies making plenty of
> money off of Linux. Caldera and Red Hat to name two obvious ones.
>
True. But look at the problems Microsoft caused Caldera.
And when you compare volume of sales? Linux has come a long way, but
its fighting an uphill battle. Besides have you seen a linux commercial
on TV yet. :)
> >being made. I love linux (and no my x-windows, doesn't look like Win95:))
> >but I still have to have a copy of Win95 for games, and MS Office.
>
> You should try grabbing a copy of StarOffice (well, if you've got
> a decently fast connection). It's got the full suite (word processor,
> spreadsheet, database etc) all bundled into an easy-to-install
> package. The best part is that it's free for Linux users. :-)
>
> Of course, I use HTML for all my word processing needs (vi
> forever! :-), so I haven't used the word processor much. I have used
> the spreadsheet to draw up graphs of dice combos though... :-)
>
StarOffice is nice. But how does it compare to Office 97?
(I haven't messed with it in a long while, something for me to mess
with in my free time :)).
Vi ick! Give me emacs any day. :)
> >Linux has come a long way (although their NFS support still needs some
> >work), but its not the same. I haven't seen anyone writing huge mass
> >market games for it, etc. Free software is wonderful, and it provides
>
> Well, apart from Doom, Quake, Quake II, Abuse and Golgotha. Yeah,
> it's pretty much all id guys, but the situation's improving.
>
True. Id is ahead of their time. But once again, look at the sheer
number of companies. Do you think Id makes more money off their DOS
based version or their linux versions?
> >a challenge to the megas, but it would most likely always be seen
> >in the hands of the "intellectuals" who liked to fiddle with their
> >OS, didn't mind things breaking, or writing it themselves. The masses
> >want somebody to call when it breaks, and to be able to wonder
> >down the store and by their programs. I don't see this changing even
> >by 2050. This is all IMHO of course.
>
> No, they don't want somebody to *call*, they want somebody to *blame*
> when they have to explain to their boss why something broke/isn't
> on schedule.
>
Same difference. Besides why else do people actually buy software vs
"stealing" it? So they can call the company complain, and ask questions.
I suppose this Topic is wondering fairly far. But I guess you have
to see the parallels today, if your going to draw the conclusions
forward to 2050. I see the crash, and the resultant "standards" as FASA's
way of leveling the playing field, and leaving out the tech details.
It may or may not have a basis in reality. This is all IMHO of course.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:23:43 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
In-Reply-To: <199805011915.QAA00858@*******.scescape.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> >Uh huh. And how many people pirate software, use mp3's, copy
> >videotapes, and otherwise bootleg stuff? Nice theory, but reality
> >seems to be on my side here.
>
> Which reality in particular, 1998, or 205X?
well, 205x, but I'm keeping human nature as basically the same in
both.
> - From everything I've read in the sourcebooks, living as a citizen
> of an extraterritorial would be similar to the experience of living
> under a totalitarian regime. A benevelent one, I'll grant you, but
> still.
I'll agree with that. But Big brother had unlimited resources and a
passive populace. (meta)Humanity is just too rebellious for a mega
to nit-pick all employees personal habits. (Or rather, they will
nitpick, but they can't afford to monitor and enforce everyone.) The
only time the Mega will take the extreme step is when the cost of
doing so (including the hit to reputation, which will affect sales
AND future employees) is when it will save them more money than not
doing so.
-=SwiftOne=-
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:26:20 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
In-Reply-To: <199805011816.MAA23549@******.carl.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
On 1 May 98 at 12:16, David Buehrer wrote:
> <Red Leader> Stay on topic... stay on topic. </Red Leader>
Good one, David. :)
--
=================================================================
-DREKHEAD- drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
==================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:24:36 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [GridSec] OT: Babylon 5 news
In-Reply-To: <199805011743.NAA05545@****.ctghub.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 02:44 PM 5/1/98 -0500, you wrote:
>On 1 May 98 at 14:31, Steven A. Tinner wrote:
>
>> >Thought I'd do a service to the list by dropping some news.
>>
>> How is this a service?
Because I know that it's a topic of interest to more than just GridSec. It
was news of interest to a significant portion of this list.
>Your right, of course, but I hope your not implying that this thread
>was allowed to continue because someone in GridSec is interested in
>it, because that's not the case. It will be squelched if it continues
>past the allowed period of time, I assure you.
Wait a minute, I don't fucking get it. Instead of keeping on with the
silly thread of "what was Ivanova's quote?" or whatever, I changed it and
gave it *some* purpose other than people going "yeah, that's it!."
I changed the subject header to accuratly describe what the message was so
that there would be no confusion as to what it was about; not only was
there an "OT" to signify it wasn't SR related, I blatantly stated "Babylon
5 news." Off-Topic threads are lucky to have such a brutally obvious
Subject header so people can avoid it if they chose. Apparently this
wasn't clear enough for Tinner, who despite his apparent hatred/dislike of
B5, STILL opened up the message and read at least more than just a line or
two.
I wasn't trying to open up any sort of B5 discussion on RN, I was simply
dropping some info that I knew a significant portion of this list would be
interested in. It was never intended to go any farther than that. I
wasn't continuing a thread, I wasn't intending on starting a new one.
No, it wasn't directly SR related. But because of that, I tried to make it
clear that is was of interest to only a part of the list. I tried to make
it a "closed" post, with little real avenue for follow-up messages.
But instead of that, we get one person's complaint, GridSec beginning to
step in, and several other messages about it all. ALL of which could have
been avoided if one person had simply taken heed of a very clear subject
header.
This whole thing is starting to piss me off. Yes, I made an off-topic
posting, but I *blatantly* stated that fact so that it could be avoided or
ignored.
I mean damn, this Linux debate, of which the majority of e-mails have been
about today, is friggin' pointless. It's already gone on too long. The
only irk I have is when downloading those messages, since I don't actually
read them since I know what they are about! That thread is more of a
threat to bandwidth than this little problem!
I had been in a pretty good mood so far this morning, but thanks Tinner,
you put me in as bad a mood as you obviously are. Thanks.
Erik J.
Fuck the .sig
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:37:26 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Joshua Bell <joshbell@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: The talks on my Cyberware post.
In-Reply-To: <3549EF89.810906B5@****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>> EPSILON (-90% essence, x100 cost, Avail. +20)
>> SUPER EPSILON (-99% essence, x200 cost, Avail. +35)
Munchkinism.. I think not, you mearly miss my point.
I was mearly taking the "Essence" term of shadowrun to its logical
conclusion. I DON'T want runners with every piece of cyberware in the
books instaled in them. What I was going towards is the perfect synergy of
man and machine. Think about it. Essence cost IMHO is not just a
"limitation" for players so they do not get to powerful, but an indication
of "Man vs. Machine." So it is quite logical that as time passes, we as a
culture (in shadowrun), will be able to implant people with cyberware
without making them more "machine."
Think about the artificial limbs out now ( in the real world) for people
without arms and legs, in the beginning they were little more than steal
hooks, and now we have them computer controled, and very real looking, yet
of course, not like the real thing.
So if you or I have players that want every piece of cyberware in the
books, we can stop it by as I said destroying the cyberware in some way, or
simply rule that they can not find it (Due to its EXCESSIVE availability).
I mean REALLY guys, I did read CyberTechnology, and IMHO I would much
rather have a runner with GAMMA or EPSILON implants than have to deal with
a Cyber Zombie PC.
Again I welcome you opinions, as this message is mine...
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:42:35 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jessica Grota <grota@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Got Milk ? (REALLY OT)
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Ereskanti wrote:
>
> In a message dated 5/1/98 8:08:14 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
> James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA writes:
>
> > Jett wrote:
> > >That's right...my 800-lb, cybered-to-hell, tough as nails combat monster
> > >troll secretly reads them in bed, under the covers, with a flashlight
> > >and a bag of oreos when his teammates aren't looking. ;)
> >
> > What? No milk? ;-)
>
> Oh geesh, the new "Got Milk" commercial of the SR Era....said CtH Troll is
all
> set up in bed, has his Oreos, goes to eat a few, then reaches for a drink,
> which he forgot to fill, mad dash at Wired speeds (kind of blur him like the
> flash) to the frig, which is empty...trashes frig (just to show off those
> super-cyber-5000 mods), quickly notes his MAJOR gear is all out to the shop to
> be "fixed". Grabs slippers, Oreo bag and a couple of said books.
>
> Makes a terrifying assault while in boxers, bathrobe and slippers upon a Dairy
> somewhere nearby (at -those speeds, does distance matter :). All sorts of
> neat effects, the books are now throwing 'stars', which don't get damaged by
> some unknown force, slippers enable silence, and a single rigger guard sees
> this in one of his cameras and suffer's Dump Shock from the sheer image ;P
>
> Later, back at the apartment, beneath his sheets, with his NIGHTglow(tm) stick
> going, and a lone cow in a "walk in refrigerator" nearby secured away ...
the
> troll with a tankard-size glass of frosty milk, looks at the camera ... smiles
> one of those "Neat Trollishly Toothie Smiles(tm)" gives a thumbs up and
agrees
> with the disembodied voice who asks the lone question...
>
> Got Milk???
>
> -K
ROFLMCAO! Man oh man, that would be GREAT! Maybe I should draw a pic of
that for my archive, it would be a riot!
--Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:37:22 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: OT!! SD Comic Con
In-Reply-To: <354A1F78.53F6F552@***********.net>
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Okay, as you can see in the Subject line, this is somewhat off-topic. If
you have ZERO interest in the San Diego Comic Con, delete now and move on.
Also, for those also on TK, I apologize profusely for accidentally sending
that message to that list instead of here. Reserve your THWAPS! and carp
for Plot-D please.
Anyway, here's the message as it was originally intended to go out:
Bit of news on this front also...
Got my hotel reservation; I'll be staying at the same hotel that is the
primary gaming location for the Comic Con. This, combined with a very
enthusiastic response from some new SR players I dealt with over the last
few weeks, means I'm about 99% positive I'm going to GM a Shadowrun game at
the San Diego Comic Con. Those of you that are going: any suggestions
about what I should run? I was planning on doing at least a part of
Renraku: Shutdown.
Here's the current list of people planning to attend the SD Comic Con:
Mike Paff mikepaff@***.com
Doug Snyder ghanII@***.com
Richard Dean Swen rwen@**********.com
Michael Ragland lordnazal@***.com
Erik Jameson me!
And probably Jak Koke.
If anyone else is planning to attend and wishes to either hook up with the
group for a drink or to play in the SR game I'm almost certain to run,
private e-mail me and I'll add you to the list.
Thanks to the general list for your time and bandwidth!
Erik J.
"Forgive me FASA for I have sinned. It has been 6 days since I last played
Shadowrun and 15 days since I last bought a SRTCG booster pack."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:45:17 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Joshua Bell <joshbell@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: 2060 ENHANCED-cyberware
In-Reply-To: <199805010635.CAA31149@******.mindspring.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 02:33 AM 5/1/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Once upon a time, Joshua Bell wrote;
>
>>As a part-time gamemaster I have come up with the following:
>In other words you've got to be kidding. It took about 5 years (sorry I'm
>not checking the books for an exact date on this one) to get from beta to
>gamma and a few more before hints of delta came out (which is only 2?
>years off your date). Your SOTA curve is way off.
Not if it (SOTA curve) is EXPONENTIAL. Really I don't evn care if you use
it , I use it for FUN. And it does make sense, all you have to do is
increase the inovation rate, and the engineers/scientists have
"inspirations" that decrease the curve dramatically. (Just think how long
it would have be for the Energy theory without Einstein) so in my world I
just have a few more "Einstein" people born, thats all.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 14:41:15 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
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> > Might be before my time, K. Despite my seeming permanence, I've only
been
> > on for about a month.
> >
> Ah come on Nexx, just because of late you, like Me, don't seem to have a
major
> social life (Life in general?) to interact with... :P
Life? What's that? I've heard of them, but never actually had one of my
own that I can remember...
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 16:43:37 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Zeitgeists (Ghosts in Time?)
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Jeremy "Bolthy" Zimmerman escreveu:
>
>
>
>
>
> Yeah, I kinda settled with the idea of having to have a physical embodiment
> of an era required to summon it. Like a battered WWII helmet, or the
> tombstone of a person who died from VITAS. I don't know about how to
> summon them. I was thinking it would be in the province of a particular
> type of shaman... kinda like how the Spirits of FF can only be summoned by
> certain shamans and TNN mages who follow the paths.
>
I have also come up with a magician for Lumini (forgot to say this
before :) ).
they's be more or less hermetic, something liek the phylosophers of
Ancient Greece.
There's a Special Skill called Afinity, wich must have a
concentration of a Luminus
category (war, faith...). The greater the skill, the more attuned the
Sage (name of
the magician class) is to that aspect of Lumini, and dealing (summoning
and asking favors from)
with an opposite category requires a skill test to avoid nasty
consequences.
Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 16:32:25 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Zeitgeists (Ghosts in Time?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Jeremy "Bolthy" Zimmerman escreveu:
>
> on one of my major influences. Ubiritan's idea of Lumini was what gave me
^^^^^^^^
UbirAtan, please.
> The idea I hashed out last night is that my so called "Zeitgeists" are
> spirits tied to an object or place that symbolizes an era, time period,
> event, whatever. They are very definitely a type of "Spirit of Man".
> However, they are more in tune with social trends, and the emotions tied to
> an event than they are to physical locations. So, you may not be able to
> use them to search for a person in a city, but they may be able to give you
> perspective on any influence a person had in their native time period.
> These spirits would fit more with the scholars, and maybe the information
> brokers, of the SR universe than the runners. Some of the potential ways
> that I envisioned it using spirit powers may have some uses, but nuyen for
> soy-donuts, I'd put my money on a hearth spirit, city spirit, whatever if I
> needed help in a scrap.
>
> I can do a full write up if anyone is curious. I even came up with a sort
> of scholarly totem that could summon up these spirits.
I have the whole Lumini thing in my mind, and partially written in a
textfile.
They're more like spirits of emotions, indenpendent of time periods,
altough some
of them were created by the strong impressions left by some periods.
Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 16:02:45 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: The talks on my Cyberware post.
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980501153726.00690d84@***.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Munchkinism.. I think not, you mearly miss my point.
> synergy of man and machine. Think about it. Essence cost IMHO is
> not just a "limitation" for players so they do not get to powerful,
> but an indication of "Man vs. Machine." So it is quite logical that
> as time passes, we as a culture (in shadowrun), will be able to
> implant people with cyberware without making them more "machine."
Ah, but Essence is not a measure of man vs. machine, but rather a
question of "themselves-ness". Certainly, they can reduce the
"machine-ness" as you say, but not 99%. A data could never be .001
essence because it isn't organic, and doesn't perform human
functions.
-=SwiftOne=-
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 16:05:33 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jacob Engstrom <sabredanz@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [GridSec] OT: Babylon 5 news
On Fri, 1 May 1998 15:24:36 -0400 Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM> writes:
>Wait a minute, I don't fucking get it. Instead of >keeping on with the
silly thread of "what was
>Ivanova's quote?" or whatever, I changed it
>and gave it *some* purpose other than people going >"yeah, that's it!."
Get used to it. It was a similar frustration that led to my post using
the word "Gestopo". The only thing I can think that could help is that
every time you see a post you don't like is report it to GridSec. Perhaps
things
would be a little more even handed.
Sabredanz
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 16:54:02 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Jeremy "Bolthy" Zimmerman escreveu:
>
> ----------
> > From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
> > To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> > Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
> > Date: Friday, May 01, 1998 11:21 AM
> >
> > Guys the problem also is that a free product, doesn't have the
> > same investments behind it, because there's little to no money
> > being made. I love linux (and no my x-windows, doesn't look like Win95:))
> > but I still have to have a copy of Win95 for games, and MS Office.
> > Linux has come a long way (although their NFS support still needs some
> > work), but its not the same. I haven't seen anyone writing huge mass
> > market games for it, etc. Free software is wonderful, and it provides
> > a challenge to the megas, but it would most likely always be seen
> > in the hands of the "intellectuals" who liked to fiddle with their
> > OS, didn't mind things breaking, or writing it themselves. The masses
> > want somebody to call when it breaks, and to be able to wonder
> > down the store and by their programs. I don't see this changing even
> > by 2050. This is all IMHO of course.
> >
>
> So in the end you have the deckers running their own OSs on their
> computers, and the standard users running some mass-marketed crap?
>
> Sounds about right.
I prefer the other theory of the "unified OS" that came after the
Crash, but with
some twists: The base code for all systems is the same (ASIST), with
each corp adding
it's own "twist" to the system it makes in 2059. Mostly cosmetic
changes, because everybody
else will still use ASIST and major changes create incompatibility.
ASIST would be
currently in version 7.0, because it's the 7th generation of decks now.
Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:11:16 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Zeitgeists (Ghosts in Time?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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----------
> From: Ubiratan P. Alberton <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Zeitgeists (Ghosts in Time?)
> Date: Friday, May 01, 1998 12:32 PM
>
> Jeremy "Bolthy" Zimmerman escreveu:
> >
>
>
> > on one of my major influences. Ubiritan's idea of Lumini was what gave
me
> ^^^^^^^^
>
> UbirAtan, please.
>
That's what I get for just glancing.
> > I can do a full write up if anyone is curious. I even came up with a
sort
> > of scholarly totem that could summon up these spirits.
>
>
> I have the whole Lumini thing in my mind, and partially written in a
> textfile.
> They're more like spirits of emotions, indenpendent of time periods,
> altough some
> of them were created by the strong impressions left by some periods.
Yeah, I had the text file you sent around... commented on it on the list,
but I don't recall anyone else talking about it afterwards. I did note
that it seemed a bit cut off along the way.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 16:19:13 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alex van der Kleut <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Eurowars
In-Reply-To: <199805011851.NAA153224@****.missouri.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:51 PM 5/1/98 -0500, SteveD wrote:
> Basically yes you can hide a carrier but the Nightwraiths WERE NOT CARRIER
>LAUNCHED. Carrier landings screw up the avionics is stealth aircraft
>that's why none of the present ones have tailhooks. Of course it's quite
>common for present day stealth aircraft to be launched from afar and
>refulled in mid flight.
Actually, stealth aircraft don't have problems with their avionics being
screwed up by carrier landings. One of the reasons that they don't have a
tailhook is that there's not much room inside them for the equipment, since
everything is internal.
But the big reason they don't do carriers is the paint. All of that cool
RAM and paint they use to bounce radar reacts BADLY to sea air. All of the
salt content and stuff corrodes after a few weeks. Same thing happened to
the Navy's newest F18 (E/F?). The paint all caused it to corrode. But I
think that they just fixed it with the newest batch 6 months ago (it was
about 2 years ago that I went to McDonnel Douglas and checked out their
plant). They will be using the new type on the F22, which isn't quite as
stealthy as the F177, but pretty close.
Sommers
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:10:13 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Zeitgeists (Ghosts in Time?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: Ubiratan P. Alberton <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Zeitgeists (Ghosts in Time?)
> Date: Friday, May 01, 1998 12:43 PM
>
> Jeremy "Bolthy" Zimmerman escreveu:
> >
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yeah, I kinda settled with the idea of having to have a physical
embodiment
> > of an era required to summon it. Like a battered WWII helmet, or the
> > tombstone of a person who died from VITAS. I don't know about how to
> > summon them. I was thinking it would be in the province of a
particular
> > type of shaman... kinda like how the Spirits of FF can only be summoned
by
> > certain shamans and TNN mages who follow the paths.
> >
>
> I have also come up with a magician for Lumini (forgot to say this
> before :) ).
> they's be more or less hermetic, something liek the phylosophers of
> Ancient Greece.
Odd... that's kinda like what I was going for. I was thinking of using the
"idols" idea from the German sourcebook, and using the "Muses" as a
totem.
What incredible irony!
> There's a Special Skill called Afinity, wich must have a
> concentration of a Luminus
> category (war, faith...). The greater the skill, the more attuned the
> Sage (name of
> the magician class) is to that aspect of Lumini, and dealing (summoning
> and asking favors from)
> with an opposite category requires a skill test to avoid nasty
> consequences.
>
Ah, I was just going to go for simple summoning. Wanted to have it
somewhat close to the current system for magic.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 14:27:05 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: [OT] Gong Show
In-Reply-To: <199805011825.MAA25540@******.carl.org> from "Erik Jameson"
at
May 1, 98 02:18:59 pm
Content-Type: text
Erik Jameson wrote:
/
/ At 08:44 AM 5/1/98 -0600, you wrote:
/ >Erik Jameson wrote:
/ >/
/ >/ At 04:50 PM 4/30/98 -0700, you wrote:
/ >/
/ >/ >Maybe I should just put a paper bag over my head and judge on the Gong
/ >/ >Show.
/ >/
/ >/ Wouldn't that make you a member of GridSec then? ;-)
/ >
/ >What's worse: to be one of the judges, or one of the contestents? ;)
/
/ Good point. You could also include the viewers of the show in that also
/ methinks.
<chuckle>
/ Or a more modern, oh-so-hip-1998 equivalent? The Jerry Springer show.
Oh no. It's fun comparing ShadowRN to the Gong Show, but Jerry Springer it
is not. When we get rilled up we may come close to doing Ricki Lake, but
never Jerry Springer :)
/ "We know our products are killing people, but we're claiming the studies
/ are flawed. We're planning to focus our advertising on the youth market in
/ poor urban areas.
/
/ So, given all that, is it okay for me to steal office supplies?"
/
/ "I'd have to say yes." - Dogbert, Ethics Advisor to the MegaCorps
Just don't let Wally drive over your foot :-D
-David
--
"That which we do not know supports that which we know."
- Joseph Campbell
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:29:15 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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----------
> From: Ubiratan P. Alberton <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
> Date: Friday, May 01, 1998 12:54 PM
>
> Jeremy "Bolthy" Zimmerman escreveu:
> >
> > ----------
> > > From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
> > > To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> > > Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
> > > Date: Friday, May 01, 1998 11:21 AM
> > >
> > > Guys the problem also is that a free product, doesn't have the
> > > same investments behind it, because there's little to no money
> > > being made. I love linux (and no my x-windows, doesn't look like
Win95:))
> > > but I still have to have a copy of Win95 for games, and MS Office.
> > > Linux has come a long way (although their NFS support still needs
some
> > > work), but its not the same. I haven't seen anyone writing huge mass
> > > market games for it, etc. Free software is wonderful, and it provides
> > > a challenge to the megas, but it would most likely always be seen
> > > in the hands of the "intellectuals" who liked to fiddle with
their
> > > OS, didn't mind things breaking, or writing it themselves. The masses
> > > want somebody to call when it breaks, and to be able to wonder
> > > down the store and by their programs. I don't see this changing even
> > > by 2050. This is all IMHO of course.
> > >
> >
> > So in the end you have the deckers running their own OSs on their
> > computers, and the standard users running some mass-marketed crap?
> >
> > Sounds about right.
>
>
> I prefer the other theory of the "unified OS" that came after the
> Crash, but with
> some twists: The base code for all systems is the same (ASIST), with
> each corp adding
> it's own "twist" to the system it makes in 2059. Mostly cosmetic
> changes, because everybody
> else will still use ASIST and major changes create incompatibility.
> ASIST would be
> currently in version 7.0, because it's the 7th generation of decks now.
>
I don't have any of my fluff books at hand, but I thought ASIST was the
simsense interface... I'd view that more on par with drivers for my monitor
than as an OS. Hmmm... I wonder if it's a matter of computers being more
modular... =T
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 16:37:41 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: OT: Babylon 5 news
In-Reply-To: <19980501.150051.6679.0.sabredanz@****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
On 1 May 98 at 16:05, Jacob Engstrom wrote:
> Get used to it. It was a similar frustration that led to my post
> using the word "Gestopo". The only thing I can think that could help
> is that every time you see a post you don't like is report it to
> GridSec. Perhaps things would be a little more even handed.
It would be my advice that every time you see something that pisses
you off, kick your dog, or send an e-mail privately to the person
that caused your gasket to blow. Don't flood the list with your
frustration. Please? :)
--
=================================================================
-DREKHEAD- drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
==================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:37:13 +0800
Reply-To: Oliver McDonald <oliver@*********.com>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Oliver McDonald <oliver@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: The talks on my Cyberware post.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On Fri, 1 May 1998 15:37:26 -0400, Joshua Bell wrote:
> I mean REALLY guys, I did read CyberTechnology, and IMHO I would much
>rather have a runner with GAMMA or EPSILON implants than have to deal with
>a Cyber Zombie PC.
Hear here. I really wonder why FASA bothered with the Cyber-Zombie... Perhaps so
GM's could throw them at players, but as a GM, I would never allow a player to become
one. A munchkin type player would consider the 'drawbacks' as advantages.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Oliver McDonald - oliver@*********.com
http://web2.spydernet.com
Space. The Final Frontier. Let's not close it down.
Brought to you via CyberSpace, the recursive frontier.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 16:27:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Brian Moore <mooreb@****.FAC.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkinism at it's finest
In-Reply-To: <19980501041453.28976.qmail@*******.com> from "The Vagabond"
at
Apr 30, 98 09:14:52 pm
Content-Type: text
The Vagabond <nomad74@*******.COM> said:
>
> I believe it's not. Anything above 50% essence redection is just
> munchkinism. You can't rationalize these stats to a sane person.
> ...
> The Subject line says it all.
> ...
> The Subject line says it all.
> ...
> In all honesty, sir. I can't picture any GM in his right mind
> approving this. Of course, this is the internet, and I should learn to
> be shocked by nothing anymore.
> ...
> If you have to come up with a contingency plan for equipment, it's
> munchkin.
So what are you trying to say here? What do you really think about this?
:-) :-) :-)
--
Brian Moore, mooreb@***.com | I wrote up a nice script to truncate all News&
First Albany Corp. Sysadmin | Mail sigs that are greater than 4 lines long.
standard disclaimers apply | It is still in beta testing due to an off-by-
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 16:13:13 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Geoff Morochnick <bodiam@**********.COM>
Organization: Heaven, Inc.
Subject: Re: Eurowars
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >
> > > I think the Entente was the side with the USA and the other coutries
> > > who won....
> > >
> > > Ubiratan
> >
> > Yeah, I miswrote.... the Entente actually was just France, Britain and
Russia..... the
> > US joined the Allies, a derivative of the origional Entente.
> > --
> >
>
> The end of that war was ugly. Basically The World vs Germany alone.
> Guess who won :) .
Naw... Germany wasn't alone! Germany had two weak, corrupt, decadent empires with poor
troops on their side! :)
--
Geoff "Stonebow" Morochnick
[Life] tends to pick on everyone.
You just notice it more when it's you.
Michael Harrison
bodiam@**********.com
http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/8427
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 14:44:20 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: [GridSec] OS Debates
In-Reply-To: <199805012033.OAA04522@******.carl.org> from "Lehlan Decker"
at
May 1, 98 03:22:24 pm
Content-Type: text
<GridSec>
This is the last warning before I bump it upstairs to Adam and Mark.
Discussion of RL Operating Systems is a forbidden subject, per the
ShadowRN FAQ. If it's a subject that interests you I respect that,
but take it to private mail or join an OS listserv or newsgroup.
Discussion of OS theory as it pertains to ShadowRN is okay. That
debate is fine and may continue.
</GridSec>
-David
--
"That which we do not know supports that which we know."
- Joseph Campbell
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:42:09 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Got Milk ? (REALLY OT)(Re: [OT] Re: Vampires)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
---------
> From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
> Later, back at the apartment, beneath his sheets, with his NIGHTglow(tm)
stick
> going, and a lone cow in a "walk in refrigerator" nearby secured away
.. the
> troll with a tankard-size glass of frosty milk, looks at the camera ...
smiles
> one of those "Neat Trollishly Toothie Smiles(tm)" gives a thumbs up and
agrees
> with the disembodied voice who asks the lone question...
>
> Got Milk???
I now need to change my pants, I just laughed so hard...
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 16:51:32 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Panther <qmilton@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Woohoo!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980501231259.23665K-100000@*******.dialix.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> Hi guys! I'm back!
>
> For those who didn't know, over Easter my boyfriend and I got ripped
> off and they stole our computers and modem. I've now managed to
> borrow hardware off my friends, so I'm back on line! FINALLY! :)
>
> Being internet-less for three weeks really sucks!
I was sorry to hear about that (Adam told us on IRC). Congrats on
being back! :)
I"m about to find out how you feel, because I'm moving about 900
miles southward in a couple of weeks :P
Panther
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:45:00 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Woohoo!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
> Being internet-less for three weeks really sucks!
I didn't check my mail this morning and nearly had a nervous breakdown...
I can't imagine three weeks without it...
***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
"Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn lasts
forever"
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
"Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo the
better part of humor."
aka Ellegon, Working at making Cannon canon
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are crunchy
and good with ketchup."
--------[Geek Code Block]-----------
GED/GSS d- s++:+ a-- C++ W w+ PS+.5 PE- Y+ t+
5+ X+ R*+.5 !tv+ b+.5 DI+ D- G e h !r-- !y+
-------[End Geek Code Block]-------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 19:12:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Sex and the single shadowrunner?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980427231018.264788d4@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 28-Apr-98 wrote Bull:
>All I gotta say is, somehow, it doesn;t surprise me that you'd bring this
>up :]
><grin>
hehehe, Must be the ship of hormon thingy :)
--
Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Did you know what a rhinoceros is?
All that is left from the unicorn.
http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 19:51:49 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: WHAT !?! (Re: Info for Lady Jestyr)
In-Reply-To: <35474933.A7C0A195@********.co.at>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 29-Apr-98 wrote Alexander Jenisch:
>Stolen? How can one steal a whole PC? I can't imagine that. Maybe cause
>I'm living in a very lawful surrounding! If I could feel with her I
>would but I can't even imagine such a horror scenario!
Oh it can be done and as practice shows us its fairly often, have to dig
it out again but in the last two weeks was a univesity in Germany robed,
several Sparc stations and even the mainframe where stolen over night.
I have the whole list laying around somewhere.
--
Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Did you know what a rhinoceros is?
All that is left from the unicorn.
http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 19:35:20 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Vampires
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.93.980429140220.18956B-100000@*******.qut.edu.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 29-Apr-98 wrote Quantum:
>OK. Question.
>How do you think that shadowrunners would react if they found out a
>running partner was a vampire?
>I mean, they had been running with this person for a while, and _somehow_
>discovered that the other person was a vampire? Do you think that they
>would react with horror, indeference, pity? Do you think that they would
>ever trust the character again?
>I'm just after some general opinions, as I know it would have to differ
>from character to character etc, but I'm not really sure what the accepted
>view is.
If he acts trustworthy and knows that his teammates are off-limits it should
not be a big prob inside the team.
He can even be a very valuable asset of the team.
Or would you run with a vamp you know who can be trusted or the mondane cyber
psycho that you just picked up for this run?
I personaly would choose to run with the vamp in that case.
But then what can I say as Succubus now? ;)
--
Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Did you know what a rhinoceros is?
All that is left from the unicorn.
http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 19:03:09 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Shapeshifters and bioware...
In-Reply-To: <2fbcc56.3544e41d@***.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 27-Apr-98 wrote Ereskanti:
>>
>Along these lines of thought, has anyone considered a "Shapeshifter
>Retrovirii?" I mean, something designed around a Shaper's DNA, but then
>implanted into a norm type. What I'm getting at is something that would be a
>particularly nasty little NPC/Critter.
Well its been done already, haven`t you read Barbies background :)
--
Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Did you know what a rhinoceros is?
All that is left from the unicorn.
http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 16:02:49 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Double Type Ammo
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Not to mention that some groups are so miserly with their ammo that
> the ammo they pick off the sec. guards is more than enough...
Not miserly, James. Conservative <g>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 17:11:09 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Running to GridSec?/Proper Subject lines
In-Reply-To: <19980501.150051.6679.0.sabredanz@****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 04:05 PM 5/1/98 EDT, you wrote:
>Get used to it. It was a similar frustration that led to my post using
>the word "Gestapo". The only thing I can think that could help is that
>every time you see a post you don't like is report it to GridSec. Perhaps
>things would be a little more even handed.
I don't want to do that and I doubt GridSec would appreciate it either.
I'm not going to go running to got tell on "bob" to GridSec. "GridSec,
there's anoooother off-topic posting, make them stooopppp!" <stomps foot>
Not from me. I'd rather tease them with Gong Show references.
Look. Tinner was grumpy and unnecesarily jumped on my case. I got
defensive, because I thought I was doing the proper thing, as per list
etiquette. Neither of us behaved as a model netizen should, but a simple
human beings, prone to errors and mistakes.
<bear with me please>
Truth be told, certain people on this list rub me the wrong way, in varying
degrees; Drekhead happens to be one of them so I tend to react stronger to
anything he has to say. I'm sure I'm on a few kill files on this list and
I'm sure I rub other people, probably Drekhead among them, the wrong way
too. That's life; not everyone can be like Gurth and be loved and adored
by everyone (except maybe MC23 <j/k!>).
In other words, we don't all like each other. The ONLY common interest we
can all be assured of is Shadowrun. When we post something off that topic,
I understand that not everyone wants to read that message. That's why
proper subject headers are so critical, not only for the person making the
posting, but also for the person reading the list. This applies even
within the province of SR; when the Matrix comes up, my eyes tend to glaze
over and I go fuzzy. But politics or magic, man, I'm there dude!
But I also know that Shadowrun isn't the *only* interest many of us share.
Lots of us, across national boundaries, love Babylon 5. Some people like
this Pratchet author. Authors have fond memories of Bunnicula (while mine
is extremely foggy on that). It's not a crime to post something about
these other topics as long as we make it clear that they are clearly
off-topic, and discussion of them should be limited on the list.
Look, we here at RN are a big giant international dsyfunctional family. We
all just have to deal with that.
It may be hard for some people to believe, but I do try very hard to not
just haul off on people; back when I was given the name
"list.member.grumpy" I lobbed Molotov Coctails around this list like they
were common water ballons. If you can believe it, I think I might at times
have put Spike to shame with my incendiary viciousness. And occassionaly I
have a minor relapse or two, especially when my "etiquette" is called into
question, as Tinner seemed to do.
Hell, I don't know if you can believe it, but while I was doing my ranting
about GridSec earlier this week (was it this week or last?) I was also
trying to be a firefighter/peacemaker over on Plot-D. Things were in grave
danger of getting ugly because of some TK content a few people found
objectionable.
I even came up with the solution that seems to have resolved the problem.
So I'm not always an agitator, looking to cause trouble. Honest.
Anyway, I'm in a better mood now. Couple of good phone calls, the boss is
happy, and I'm about 3 and a half hours away from the weekend. Beer,
sleep, video games, walking my cat and NBA play-off basketball. Looking
forward to that...
Erik J.
"Ladies & Gentleman, the newest member of the band, the one and only Spice
Boy, GRUMPY SPICE!!!" <and the crowd goes wild!!!>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 17:29:46 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Double Type Ammo
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Ojaste,James [NCR] escreveu:
>
>
> Why would you assume that they're using caseless? It's much more
> expensive and doesn't hold together in the rain (ah, but what's the
> chance that it'll rain in Seattle on any given day? :-).
>
I just assume 2059 caseless ammo is waterproof. It's easier, and not
all that impossible.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 17:45:51 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Just space needed? (was: Mages and Space)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Spike escreveu:
>
> And verily, did Ubiratan P. Alberton hastily scribble thusly...
> | I think the moon's soil is good enough to accept plants growing on
> |it. The only problem is tha atmosphere and water, wich could be
> |provided.
>
> Also required would be oeganic matter in the soil (to bind it and supply
> fertility), anaerobic bacteria, and nitrates.
>
Oops, had forgot that. This can be brought from Earth too, with the
first
plants. After a while, they'll start being naturally produced.
Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 17:54:46 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Zeitgeists (Ghosts in Time?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Jeremy "Bolthy" Zimmerman escreveu:
>
>
> >
> > I have the whole Lumini thing in my mind, and partially written in a
> > textfile.
> > They're more like spirits of emotions, indenpendent of time periods,
> > altough some
> > of them were created by the strong impressions left by some periods.
>
> Yeah, I had the text file you sent around... commented on it on the list,
> but I don't recall anyone else talking about it afterwards. I did note
> that it seemed a bit cut off along the way.
I was hoping to get feedback, but mr. J cut me off the list because
of the attachment.
I offered to send it again in private after I had rejoined, but no one
replied. What did you think
of the file?
Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 17:43:55 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Munchkinism at it's finest
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sheldon Rose escreveu:
>
Sheldon Rose escreveu:
>
> The Vagabond wrote:
> >
> > Note: If you don't give a thread a topic, I will. >:)
> >
> > >Josh in his not-so-infinite wisdom states thusly:
> > >
> > >As a part-time gamemaster I have come up with the following:
> >
> > Looks like you need to log more hours. :) (j/k)
> > >
> > >New 2060 ENHANCED-cyberware:
> > >
> > >TYPE ESSENCE COST
> > >
> > >ALPHA (-20%) (this is at standard cost and Availiabilty)
> > >BETA (-40%) ( Cost x7, as per SSG) (Availability = +5 )
> > >*DELTA (-60%) ( Cost x12) (Availability = +9)
> >
> > Delta is in Cybertech, and it's 50%/x10, IIRC
>
> Those are correct and IMO they work.
>
> > >*GAMMA (-80%) ( Cost x20) (Availability = +13)
>
> I have this in my game but my numbers ar -60%/X20
>
IIRC, in the Greek Aplphabet gamma comes BEFORE delta, doesn't it? So
the
-60% stuff should be etha (after delta).
Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 18:14:34 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Jeremy "Bolthy" Zimmerman escreveu:
> > I prefer the other theory of the "unified OS" that came after the
> > Crash, but with
> > some twists: The base code for all systems is the same (ASIST), with
> > each corp adding
> > it's own "twist" to the system it makes in 2059. Mostly cosmetic
> > changes, because everybody
> > else will still use ASIST and major changes create incompatibility.
> > ASIST would be
> > currently in version 7.0, because it's the 7th generation of decks now.
> >
>
> I don't have any of my fluff books at hand, but I thought ASIST was the
> simsense interface... I'd view that more on par with drivers for my monitor
> than as an OS. Hmmm... I wonder if it's a matter of computers being more
> modular... =T
I don't have yhe books either, but ASIST is the thing that regulates
everytihng in
the deck. It interprets you orders and tells the hardware to do what you
want. That looks
like an OS to me :) .
Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 17:30:46 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Panther <qmilton@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Got Milk ? (REALLY OT)
In-Reply-To: <354A25AB.4D1D@*********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
> ROFLMCAO! Man oh man, that would be GREAT! Maybe I should draw a pic
> of that for my archive, it would be a riot!
go for it, Jett. in fact, make a whole animated clip of it if you
can. then see who on the list wants a copy <g>
Panther
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 17:32:23 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: Running to GridSec?/Proper Subject lines [OT]
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980501141322.230fc036@****.fbiz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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> Look, we here at RN are a big giant international dsyfunctional
> family. We all just have to deal with that.
Erik....<sniffle>...I love ya man!
<Swiftone, sobbing, gives Erik a big hug>
-=SwiftOne=-
But you can't have my Bud Light
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 16:36:05 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Eurowars (Long)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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----------
> From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
> <snip: Whole nightwraith incident is virtual>
>
> >So who did it?
>
> The Bavarian Illuminati of course.
Of which Lofwyr is a member <g> fnord.
Hail Eris!
Pope Nexx
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 14:47:34 +0800
Reply-To: Oliver McDonald <oliver@*********.com>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Oliver McDonald <oliver@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Jettware! (Was: Cyberware 2060/Jetware!)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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On Fri, 1 May 1998 15:22:20 -0400, Jessica Grota wrote:
>Cyberware:
>Retractable Hand Razors (Dikote) .2
>Muscle Replacement level 4 delta 2
>Cybereyes .2
> low-light enhancement
>Wired reflexes level 2 delta 1.5
>Headware Radio (comm set) delta .25
>Smartlink 2 delta .25
>
>Pretty standard by street sam standards, I think. Although in
>starting-char runs, she gets passed up for being too powerful/being
>packed full of deltaware. Luckily, she fits right in with the more
>high-powered campaigns, or as power support on lower level stuff.
> And, I think to my credit, believe it or not I RPed Jett's adjustment
>to Muscle Rep and Wired 2, since she got those post char-gen. It was
>really pretty funny: Jett stumbles around her apartment in hyper-drive,
>knocking over things, breaking the shower handle...as my GM dubbed her,
>Jett was temporarily a "Walking Urban Renewal spell". :)
Hence the desirability of a reflex trigger. I am highly tempted by the Move-by-wire
system which should (as I read it) avoid the clumsy hyper movements.
On muscle replacements, I much prefer muscle-aug (bioware vs. essence). More
expensive, but a better gain.
And of course what is a sammy without the hand razors and cyber-eyes. We all loved
Molly from Neuromancer...
-----------------------------------------------------------
Oliver McDonald - oliver@*********.com
http://web2.spydernet.com
Space. The Final Frontier. Let's not close it down.
Brought to you via CyberSpace, the recursive frontier.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 14:52:40 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Vagabond <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Info wanted
Content-Type: text/plain
>Alex van der Kleut escreveu:
>>
>>
>> Essence is a measure of how (meta)human you are, your soul, or just
how
>> much cyberware you can fit in there without croaking, depending on
your
>> slant. Body Index is a measure of how stressed your physical body is
from
>> all of the bioware you've had that's changed you so much. The higher
the
>> Body Index, the closer you are to shutting down. The lower your
Essence,
>> the closer you are to shutting down. The worse both are, the more
magic a
>> mage loses.
>>
>> Sommers
>
>
> Then B.I works like Essence, only it increases instead of
decreasing?
>What's the limit?
No. Your body index is like your body index. It's a gauge of how
much bioware you can put into your body, and it doesn't increase or
decrease- it just is. If you have a body of 5, you can put 5 points
worth of bioware into your body. Bio and cyber mods do NOT count when
determining your body index.
As I said, the limit is your unmodified body rating. All of this is
in ShadowTech.
And note: When a magically active character uses bioware, the B.I.
rating is the same as it's cost in essence.
For example, if a mage used a piece of bioware that had a BI rating
of 1, he would subtract also one point of essence.
-Vagabond
"Under wandering stars I've grown"
________________________________________________________
<nomad74@*******.com> <ICQ 4297972>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 16:49:47 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Jettware! (Was: Cyberware 2060/Jetware!)
Comments: To: Oliver McDonald <oliver@*********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: Oliver McDonald <oliver@*********.com>
> > And, I think to my credit, believe it or not I RPed Jett's
adjustment
> >to Muscle Rep and Wired 2, since she got those post char-gen. It was
> >really pretty funny: Jett stumbles around her apartment in hyper-drive,
> >knocking over things, breaking the shower handle...as my GM dubbed her,
> >Jett was temporarily a "Walking Urban Renewal spell". :)
>
> Hence the desirability of a reflex trigger. I am highly tempted by the
Move-by-wire
> system which should (as I read it) avoid the clumsy hyper movements.
The problem with using a reflex trigger before you're used to the 'ware is
that, when you turn on your wires, your body isn't going to have a clue as
to how to react. You need that time (probably a couple hours per level
reflexes, modified by your natural Quickness) to get used to moving with
it, or when you try, you'll fall flat on your face.
Also, Ollie, your reply-to field is overriding the list. Needs to be
changed (if I had to, you have to. Fuck 'em all!)
***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
"Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn lasts
forever"
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
"Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo the
better part of humor."
aka Ellegon, Working at making Cannon canon
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are crunchy
and good with ketchup."
--------[Geek Code Block]-----------
GED/GSS d- s++:+ a-- C++ W w+ PS+.5 PE- Y+ t+
5+ X+ R*+.5 !tv+ b+.5 DI+ D- G e h !r-- !y+
-------[End Geek Code Block]-------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 17:01:19 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Stephen Delear <c715591@******.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Eurowars (Long)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980501131013.0080db60@*****.engin.umich.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Of course, another scenario is: what if the planes never existed? People
>said that the planes stayed in the UK that night. Only the Swedes detected
>them. No one shot them down, any of them, in the middle of the war. Then
>they disappeared again. Seems almost impossible. Sherlock Holmes, eliminate
>the impossible, and the improbable is the answer.
>
>The Matrix was vulnerable at this point. A virus was already put out
>against both sides. Why not send your decker against Swede air control and
>run a simulation? Muddy the water some more tomake it look like someone did
>all the damage. And those key communications and command centers are taken
>out by saboteurs. You try to figure out what happened, and along comes a
>message about some planes spotted.
>
>So who did it?
>
I hate to join the blame everything on Ares crowed but lets see matrix
attacks, milspec tech the only thing I can't figure out is why Ares would
want to do it. I guess if it was about to go nuclear or somebody was about
to win and they wanted to drag it out I could see it (but didn't the
paragraph state that a seice fire was called the next day). I can't see
the British doing it weren't they a member of NATO in the 20whatevers. On
the other hand Sweden has traditionally had one of the more advanced armies
in Europe (sure not for a couple hundred years but still). Why couldn't
thw Swedes or another emergent power have done it?
SteveD
Stephen Delear
University of Missouri-Columbia
Check out my Photo Message Board at http://www.missouri.edu/~c715591
"Sometimes I do get to places just when God's ready to have somebody click
the shutter" Ansel Adams
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 00:00:35 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980501004012.0068c554@***.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 01-Mai-98 wrote Joshua Bell:
Sorry but this the only thing I can say about this cyber grade post.
TTTTTTTT
TT HH HH
TT HH HH WW WW
TT HHHHHH WW WW AA
TT HH HH WW WW AAAA PPPP
HH HH WW WW WW AA AA PP PP ****
WW WW AAAAAAAA PPPP **No**
AA AA PP **!No!**
PP **!!No!!**
**Bad!!!**
**!Bad!!**
**!!Bad!**
* **!You!!**
* * **shudda**
* * * * * * * **known!**
* * **better**
* X // * **!than!**
* // * **that**
* // * ******
* ** *
* * * * * ** * * ****
* * * * * **..**
* * * **/\**
* * ****
* * * *
(Carp: circa 1864) * *
--
Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Did you know what a rhinoceros is?
All that is left from the unicorn.
http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 18:58:37 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Eurowars
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Geoff Morochnick escreveu:
>
> > >
> > > > I think the Entente was the side with the USA and the other
coutries
> > > > who won....
> > > >
> > > > Ubiratan
> > >
> > > Yeah, I miswrote.... the Entente actually was just France, Britain and
Russia..... the
> > > US joined the Allies, a derivative of the origional Entente.
> > > --
> > >
> >
> > The end of that war was ugly. Basically The World vs Germany alone.
> > Guess who won :) .
>
> Naw... Germany wasn't alone! Germany had two weak, corrupt, decadent empires with
poor
> troops on their side! :)
>
One of which gav up the conflict at that time, and other wich changed
sides... :)
Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 18:56:27 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Zeitgeists (Ghosts in Time?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Jeremy "Bolthy" Zimmerman escreveu:
>
>
> >
> >
> > There's a Special Skill called Afinity, wich must have a
> > concentration of a Luminus
> > category (war, faith...). The greater the skill, the more attuned the
> > Sage (name of
> > the magician class) is to that aspect of Lumini, and dealing (summoning
> > and asking favors from)
> > with an opposite category requires a skill test to avoid nasty
> > consequences.
> >
>
> Ah, I was just going to go for simple summoning. Wanted to have it
> somewhat close to the current system for magic.
I did this because the nature of the Sages is more hermetic (Someone
says "shaman"
and I see a guy covered with feathers :) ). There are 7 types of Lumini,
each of
the 6 first ones is opposed to other, and the 7th is opposed to all
other 6 (that
diagram in the beginning of the file.). Sages cast spells normally and
summon a
Luminus using Conjuring+Affinity of the desired type. Max skill is equal
to
Magic/2. Lumini don't like when you deal with their mortal enemies, so
they won't
be kind on the sage if he does...
Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 00:16:27 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Organization: Virtual Poetry
Subject: Re: How old get Shapeshifters ???
In-Reply-To: <19980428.142553.10950.0.lobo1@****.com>
On 28 Apr 98 at 14:25, John E Pederson wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:51:21 -0500 Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
> writes:
> >>
> >> Elves and age. Did I ever mention that in my game, elves might not
> >> visibily age, but do so internally (I even have an explanation for
> this!
> >> ;)). So they usually get about 75 years old.
> >> Yes, I dislike elves.
> >>
> >Heh..I can't wait to hear this explanation. Or is this a subject better
> >avoided. I enjoy elves, but they can be overrated.
>
>
> I dunno if this is the original poster's explanation, but possibly
> *extremely* high bilirubin levels...
Well, I'm the original poster. :)
My idea was based on something I've read about ageing a couple of month
ago. They said that ageing is caused by the desintegration of the
cromosomes (urgh. I hope I get half of the words right...), or more
specifically, the ends of them. I don't remember much more...
Anyway, my idea was that elfs don't show any signals of this decay, until
it's to late. Then, they seem to rapidly age (for about a month, or so) and
die.
Did I mess anything up`?
Note: My players don't know about this. I might use it as a plot-device,
sometime...:)
Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx
ICQ: 9293066
A society without religion is like a crazed psychopath without a loaded .45
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
GAT/CS/S/IT d--- s+:-- !a>? C++(++++)
UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+ w---() O-
M-- PS+(+++) PE- Y+>++ t+(++) 5+ X++
R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++ e>+++++(*)
h! r--
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 00:16:27 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Organization: Virtual Poetry
Subject: Re: Sex and the single shadowrunner?
In-Reply-To: <s5461aac.048@********.dragonsys.com>
On 28 Apr 98 at 17:58, Mike Elkins wrote:
> >Two children of the same parents can (statistically unlikely) share
> >none of the same genes.
>
> BTW: It's 67 million to one against, for those of you who think your sister
> is from a different planet.
Hey! My sister is from another planet. She's green and has antennas! :)
Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx
ICQ: 9293066
A society without religion is like a crazed psychopath without a loaded .45
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
GAT/CS/S/IT d--- s+:-- !a>? C++(++++)
UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+ w---() O-
M-- PS+(+++) PE- Y+>++ t+(++) 5+ X++
R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++ e>+++++(*)
h! r--
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 00:16:27 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Organization: Virtual Poetry
Subject: Re: Problem Spells
In-Reply-To: <19980428172821.27216.rocketmail@****.rocketmail.com>
On 28 Apr 98 at 10:28, Caric wrote:
> IIRC, and it is entirely possible that I do not, the listed times for
> Heal/Treat are indeed in minutes not turns. 5 Minutes for a light is
> what <sound of number crunching> 100 three second combat turns...how
> many fights break that 100 turn barrier? Make the mage sustain those
> puppies.
Personally, I borrowed some thing about healing-spells from the
Midgard-RPG: You can only cast heal/treat at someone every 24h and only
*once* per wound. So if someone gets shot and after the healing still has a
serious wound, it can only be healed naturally. But if he takes a moderate
wound after that, it can be healed, once the 24h have passed.
Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx
ICQ: 9293066
A society without religion is like a crazed psychopath without a loaded .45
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
GAT/CS/S/IT d--- s+:-- !a>? C++(++++)
UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+ w---() O-
M-- PS+(+++) PE- Y+>++ t+(++) 5+ X++
R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++ e>+++++(*)
h! r--
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 00:16:54 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: 2060 ENHANCED-cyberware
In-Reply-To: <199805010638.CAA31924@******.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 01-Mai-98 wrote MC23:
>Once upon a time, Ereskanti wrote;
>>Actually, IIRC, in one of the books, Alpha-Grade is now equal to Standard in
>>Physical Cost by the year 2057/8 or so.
> I don't recall that at all. Could you please quote that for me. I'm
>rather skeptical.
>(I hope this isn't more garbage from the Shadowrun Companion, that book
>really needs a second edition made).
It is page 85 Cyberware costs:
"...has made alpha grade cyberware far more avaiable-but certainly not cheaper
. To reflect this chage, the Street index and avaiability for alpha-grade
cyberware is now the same as for standart-grade cyberware."
--
Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Did you know what a rhinoceros is?
All that is left from the unicorn.
http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:25:28 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: ASIST assistance?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >
> > I don't have any of my fluff books at hand, but I thought ASIST was the
> > simsense interface... I'd view that more on par with drivers for my
monitor
> > than as an OS. Hmmm... I wonder if it's a matter of computers being
more
> > modular... =T
>
>
> I don't have yhe books either, but ASIST is the thing that regulates
> everytihng in
> the deck. It interprets you orders and tells the hardware to do what you
> want. That looks
> like an OS to me :) .
>
I'll check when I get home (this is becoming my catch phrase, I think). I
remember they talk a lot about it in the Shadowbeat sourcebook, the #1
sourcebook, if you ask me. I'm always wanting to know how much it costs to
buy an electric accordian.
Anyway, there's a big thing on simsense recordings, and the ASIST signal,
or ASIST interface is how it broadcasts the "simsense" feed to your brain.
Same thing as with rigger controls and cyberdecks...
Ah, VR2.0 is in my bag... from the fluff on page 9:
These circuits here are the ASIST interface drivers. They let you see and
hear and feel things in the **MATRIX**. You have a simsense unit in your
home, thanks to your poor mother's honest work so you know how ASIST works.
It lets your stories and adventures seem as if they were real. Just as
simsense lets your play seem so real, the ASIST cirucutes in your
cyberterminal make your work seem real too.
I stand by my earlier definition, though I guess it's probably closer to a
video card than a driver. The OS is the platform on which the programs
run. Calling ASIST an OS is like calling my keyboard and monitor an OS.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:29:54 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Zeitgeists (Ghosts in Time?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: Ubiratan P. Alberton <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Zeitgeists (Ghosts in Time?)
> Date: Friday, May 01, 1998 1:54 PM
>
> I was hoping to get feedback, but mr. J cut me off the list because
> of the attachment.
> I offered to send it again in private after I had rejoined, but no one
> replied. What did you think
> of the file?
>
Here's my original response:
Okay, thought I'd give my input on the write up. I thought it was
generally interesting, but a few things kinda nagged at me....
The first was that they can only appear human, which I thought was a little
silly. I've noticed that with many spirits, particularly Spirits of Man,
their appearance is based more off of perception than soul. On top of
which, it would be pretty hard for a Hate Lumini to get the trolls of an
anti-human organization to go rampaging after humans if the spirit looked
like human. He'd probably just get whacked.
Another thing that got me right away is the association of Wisdom with Math
and Science. If anything I'd associate these with the Lumini of the
Machine. I would find it more applicable to be associated with the social
skills, which you pointed out, as well the more "common sense" knowledges,
such as all the different types of "Theories". Art I would place more in
the realm of "Love" then "Wisdom".
It cuts off in the midst of War, I think, and so that's about the end of
what I can consider. =) I should also note that I think stats should have
been listed with it.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 00:33:19 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Goblinization and space
In-Reply-To: <01bd7526$5332ff20$29f81fcc@*******>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 01-Mai-98 wrote rabiola:
>Similar to shapeshifters, would not all things revert to their true
>forms, depending on the environment they are in at the time? Of course,
>this all depends on what you consider their normal forms, with or
>without mana...
Nope goblinization is a non reversal thing, same for shapers, ST says this.
Once the mana level has effected the genes they will not refert to its former
state.
--
Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Did you know what a rhinoceros is?
All that is left from the unicorn.
http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 18:43:45 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: ASIST assistance?
In-Reply-To: <199805012229.PAA29313@*********.cobaltgroup.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> These circuits here are the ASIST interface drivers. They let you
> see and hear and feel things in the **MATRIX**. You have a simsense
> unit in your home, thanks to your poor mother's honest work so you
> know how ASIST works.
> It lets your stories and adventures seem as if they were real.
> Just as
> simsense lets your play seem so real, the ASIST cirucutes in your
> cyberterminal make your work seem real too.
>
>
> I stand by my earlier definition, though I guess it's probably
> closer to a video card than a driver. The OS is the platform on
> which the programs run. Calling ASIST an OS is like calling my
> keyboard and monitor an OS.
Note the important part there...the keyboard. ASIST is more than
just the output driver, it's also the INPUT driver. Okay, so it's
not an OS....but it is at least the BIOS. And a lot of the OS is a
layer above the BIOS that does the same function.
-=SwiftOne=-
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 18:49:15 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: Sex and the single shadowrunner?
In-Reply-To: <199805012226.AAA10408@*********.netsurf.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> > BTW: It's 67 million to one against, for those of you who think your sister
> > is from a different planet.
>
> Hey! My sister is from another planet. She's green and has antennas!
Well, given that the current-day population is somewhere's between
5-6 billion, I calculate that there are between 741-1000 or so of us
who actually DO have alien sisters.
-=SwiftOne=-
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:51:14 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: ASIST assistance?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: ASIST assistance?
> Date: Friday, May 01, 1998 4:43 PM
>
> Note the important part there...the keyboard. ASIST is more than
> just the output driver, it's also the INPUT driver. Okay, so it's
> not an OS....but it is at least the BIOS. And a lot of the OS is a
> layer above the BIOS that does the same function.
>
I saw that flaw when I was typing it. Just hoped no one would catch me on
it. D'oh!
You may have on that... I don't know much about BIOS except that I don't
want to frag with it. =) What exactly does BIOS do, and how would that
relate to the operation of a cyberdeck? I could imagine the ASIST being
part of the BIOS, but I don't know that I'd say that it is the BIOS. You
can take the ASIST out of a cyberdeck, slap a monitor and a keyboard on it,
and you have a turtle. You take the BIOS out of a PC, and you've got an
useless assembly of glass, plastic, and metal.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 18:54:40 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Running to GridSec?/Proper Subject lines [OT]
In-Reply-To: <1840246C81@**.opp.psu.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 05:32 PM 5/1/98 EST, you wrote:
>> Look, we here at RN are a big giant international dsyfunctional
>> family. We all just have to deal with that.
>
>Erik....<sniffle>...I love ya man!
>
><Swiftone, sobbing, gives Erik a big hug>
>
>-=SwiftOne=-
>But you can't have my Bud Light
>
HEY!! Get OFF ME!!!
<mumble>
damn touchy feely crap I thought the Internet was supposed to be impersonal
what the hell are these freaks doing hugging me I oughta kick their ass
doesn't he know real men don't hug the slap and hit each other I just don't
get it...
</mumble>
Actually, that very nearly made me laugh out loud. While in and of itself
that isn't a bad thing, when are by yourself in your office and you
suddenly start to laugh or giggle, co-workers walking by tend to think you
are extremely bizarre. And the people here think I'm odd enough as it is.
Thanks for the humor.
And now back to your regularly scheduled, on-topic, mailing list...
Erik J.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 19:02:58 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Geoff Morochnick <bodiam@**********.COM>
Organization: Heaven, Inc.
Subject: Re: Eurowars
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Ubiratan P. Alberton wrote:
> Geoff Morochnick escreveu:
> >
> > > >
> > > > > I think the Entente was the side with the USA and the other
coutries
> > > > > who won....
> > > > >
> > > > > Ubiratan
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, I miswrote.... the Entente actually was just France, Britain and
Russia..... the
> > > > US joined the Allies, a derivative of the origional Entente.
> > > > --
> > > >
> > >
> > > The end of that war was ugly. Basically The World vs Germany alone.
> > > Guess who won :) .
> >
> > Naw... Germany wasn't alone! Germany had two weak, corrupt, decadent empires
with poor
> > troops on their side! :)
> >
>
> One of which gav up the conflict at that time, and other wich changed
> sides... :)
>
> Ubiratan
No.... Italy wasn't one of the empires I was thinking of. I was thinking of
Austria-Hungary and
the Ottoman Turks. I still wonder if FASA has come out with any ideas on what happened to
the
land that was once the Ottoman's... (i.e.: the Holy Land/ Middle East)
--
Stonebow
The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other
bastard die for his.
-George Patton
bodiam@**********.com
http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/8427
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 17:16:23 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Eurowars
In-Reply-To: <199805010940.LAA08320@*****.xs4all.nl>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:41 01/05/98 +0100, you wrote:
>Geoff Morochnick said on 15:20/30 Apr 98...
>
>> Israel's army never has been used in a purely offensive operation...
>
>LOL! I always get the 1967 and 1973 wars mixed up, but IIRC one of them
>was started by the Israelis as a kind of pre-emptive strike against the
>Arabs.
The 6 day war was the pre-emptive strike, Yom Kippur war was the Arabs
trying to take the territory back and failing.
-Adam J
Who does pay attention in clas once in awhile.
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 19:19:54 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: ASIST assistance?
In-Reply-To: <199805012254.PAA01328@*********.cobaltgroup.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> I saw that flaw when I was typing it. Just hoped no one would catch
> me on it. D'oh!
>
> You may have on that... I don't know much about BIOS except that I
> don't want to frag with it. =) What exactly does BIOS do, and how
> would that relate to the operation of a cyberdeck? I could imagine
BIOS: Basic Input/Output System (?). Basically it's responsible for
handling signals from hardware and letting the CPU access them IIRC.
Naturally, software drivers or additional hardware drivers are needed
for most things anyway. This is all working off of memory from
reading too many manuals when I was younger so anyone with more
up-to-date knowledge refresh me.
> the ASIST being part of the BIOS, but I don't know that I'd say that
> it is the BIOS. You can take the ASIST out of a cyberdeck, slap a
> monitor and a keyboard on it, and you have a turtle. You take the
> BIOS out of a PC, and you've got an useless assembly of glass,
> plastic, and metal.
ACtually, I have a book "101 things to do with a dead computer".
Pretty funny. My favorite is turning the monitor into a fishtank.
But to get to your point, I'd say that the differences between the
hardware of a Turtle and a 'deck go beyond running ASIST...they work
on different principles. Sadly, I have nothing to back me up.
Anyone want to help me out?
-=SwiftOne=-\
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 19:22:02 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Got Milk ? (REALLY OT)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 5/1/98 4:39:13 PM US Eastern Standard Time, qmilton@**.NET
writes:
> > ROFLMCAO! Man oh man, that would be GREAT! Maybe I should draw a pic
> > of that for my archive, it would be a riot!
>
> go for it, Jett. in fact, make a whole animated clip of it if you
> can. then see who on the list wants a copy <g>
>
Oh I know I would...It was the ONLY good thing about my day today, inventing
that while I was still half asleep before work...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 18:28:31 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses Publishing
Subject: Re: The talks on my Cyberware post.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Joshua Bell wrote:
> >> EPSILON (-90% essence, x100 cost, Avail. +20)
> >> SUPER EPSILON (-99% essence, x200 cost, Avail. +35)
> Munchkinism.. I think not, you mearly miss my point.
> I was mearly taking the "Essence" term of shadowrun to its logical
> conclusion. I DON'T want runners with every piece of cyberware in the
> books instaled in them.
The difficulty with allowing such low rates isn't that shadowrunner PCs
can get ahold of the equipment: it's that the NPCs can and, by all
rights, should have the top-tier stuff. A megacorp isn't going to waste
its time diddling out zero-generation cyberstuff to what really amount
to elite soldiers. The Essence cost for super-ep cyberstuff remains,
while the nuyen cost drops (they don't pay retail for it) and the
availability disappears (they manufacture it). So for the PCs, they
remain more or less within the bounds of 'normal' SR, while the enemies
can - and, again *should* - get geared up to levels that would normally
require cybermancy or weird Tir rites. You can always GM out of it:
send the runners against strictly fourth-tier companies, or dump enough
money in their laps to let them get the gems -- but that's a LOT of yen.
Incidentally, to compare the various levels to a real-world situation --
when's the last time you saw seven generations of the same product at
market together? This is sort of like having 286s side-by-side with
Pentium II's -- it doesn't happen.
- Matt
------------------------------------
Ask me tonight why love is strange
For I am drunk and full of reasons....
SRCard list.member.newbie
Teen Poets FAQ: http://pw1.netcom.com/~mbreton/poetry/poetfaq.htm
SRTCG Website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/2189/ccgtop.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 18:31:17 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Stephen Delear <c715591@******.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Eurowars
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980501161913.0081cc50@*****.engin.umich.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 04:19 PM 98-05-01 -0400, you wrote:
>At 01:51 PM 5/1/98 -0500, SteveD wrote:
>> Basically yes you can hide a carrier but the Nightwraiths WERE NOT CARRIER
>>LAUNCHED. Carrier landings screw up the avionics is stealth aircraft
>>that's why none of the present ones have tailhooks. Of course it's quite
>>common for present day stealth aircraft to be launched from afar and
>>refulled in mid flight.
>
>Actually, stealth aircraft don't have problems with their avionics being
>screwed up by carrier landings. One of the reasons that they don't have a
>tailhook is that there's not much room inside them for the equipment, since
>everything is internal.
>
>But the big reason they don't do carriers is the paint. All of that cool
>RAM and paint they use to bounce radar reacts BADLY to sea air. All of the
>salt content and stuff corrodes after a few weeks. Same thing happened to
>the Navy's newest F18 (E/F?). The paint all caused it to corrode. But I
>think that they just fixed it with the newest batch 6 months ago (it was
>about 2 years ago that I went to McDonnel Douglas and checked out their
>plant). They will be using the new type on the F22, which isn't quite as
>stealthy as the F177, but pretty close.
F22? I was under the impression that it was a classified aircraft. Then
again I could be thinking of a different aircraft.
SteveD
>
>Sommers
>
Stephen Delear
University of Missouri-Columbia
Check out my Photo Message Board at http://www.missouri.edu/~c715591
"Sometimes I do get to places just when God's ready to have somebody click
the shutter" Ansel Adams
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 19:27:22 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: GridSec Kicks Dogs! News at 11!
In-Reply-To: <199805011936.PAA06455@****.ctghub.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 04:37 PM 5/1/98 -0500, you wrote:
>It would be my advice that every time you see something that pisses
>you off, kick your dog <snipped>
I'm shocked and horrified that an official member of GridSec no less would
advocate the abuse of a poor, defenseless, innocent animal!
<mother's voice>
Shame on you Drekhead!
</mother's voice>
Okay, just kidding. I doubt you really want us to actually go kick a dog
there Drekhead. I just thought it was a bit amusing actually.
But if I do see someone kicking a dog for real, I'm kicking someone's ass
for real. And *that's* the only part of this message that isn't meant as a
joke.
Erik J.
Less than an hour until the weekend!! Wooohooo!!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 20:07:20 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Geoff Morochnick <bodiam@**********.COM>
Organization: Heaven, Inc.
Subject: Re: Running to GridSec?/Proper Subject lines
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> I don't want to do that and I doubt GridSec would appreciate it either.
> I'm not going to go running to got tell on "bob" to GridSec.
"GridSec,
> there's anoooother off-topic posting, make them stooopppp!" <stomps foot>
>
> Not from me. I'd rather tease them with Gong Show references.
>
> Look. Tinner was grumpy and unnecesarily jumped on my case. I got
> defensive, because I thought I was doing the proper thing, as per list
> etiquette. Neither of us behaved as a model netizen should, but a simple
> human beings, prone to errors and mistakes.
>
> <bear with me please>
>
> Truth be told, certain people on this list rub me the wrong way, in varying
> degrees; Drekhead happens to be one of them so I tend to react stronger to
> anything he has to say. I'm sure I'm on a few kill files on this list and
> I'm sure I rub other people, probably Drekhead among them, the wrong way
> too. That's life; not everyone can be like Gurth and be loved and adored
> by everyone (except maybe MC23 <j/k!>).
>
> In other words, we don't all like each other. The ONLY common interest we
> can all be assured of is Shadowrun. When we post something off that topic,
> I understand that not everyone wants to read that message. That's why
> proper subject headers are so critical, not only for the person making the
> posting, but also for the person reading the list. This applies even
> within the province of SR; when the Matrix comes up, my eyes tend to glaze
> over and I go fuzzy. But politics or magic, man, I'm there dude!
>
> But I also know that Shadowrun isn't the *only* interest many of us share.
> Lots of us, across national boundaries, love Babylon 5. Some people like
> this Pratchet author. Authors have fond memories of Bunnicula (while mine
> is extremely foggy on that). It's not a crime to post something about
> these other topics as long as we make it clear that they are clearly
> off-topic, and discussion of them should be limited on the list.
>
> Look, we here at RN are a big giant international dsyfunctional family. We
> all just have to deal with that.
>
> It may be hard for some people to believe, but I do try very hard to not
> just haul off on people; back when I was given the name
> "list.member.grumpy" I lobbed Molotov Coctails around this list like they
> were common water ballons. If you can believe it, I think I might at times
> have put Spike to shame with my incendiary viciousness. And occassionaly I
> have a minor relapse or two, especially when my "etiquette" is called into
> question, as Tinner seemed to do.
>
> Hell, I don't know if you can believe it, but while I was doing my ranting
> about GridSec earlier this week (was it this week or last?) I was also
> trying to be a firefighter/peacemaker over on Plot-D. Things were in grave
> danger of getting ugly because of some TK content a few people found
> objectionable.
>
> I even came up with the solution that seems to have resolved the problem.
> So I'm not always an agitator, looking to cause trouble. Honest.
>
> Anyway, I'm in a better mood now. Couple of good phone calls, the boss is
> happy, and I'm about 3 and a half hours away from the weekend. Beer,
> sleep, video games, walking my cat and NBA play-off basketball. Looking
> forward to that...
>
> Erik J.
<wild applause>
Yay!
</wild applause>
--
Stonebow
Friends: People who know you well, but like you anyway.
bodiam@**********.com
http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/8427
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 19:11:00 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: How old get Shapeshifters ???
On Sat, 2 May 1998 00:16:27 +0000 Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
writes:
>On 28 Apr 98 at 14:25, John E Pederson wrote:
>> I dunno if this is the original poster's explanation, but possibly
>> *extremely* high bilirubin levels...
>
>Well, I'm the original poster. :)
>My idea was based on something I've read about ageing a couple of month
>ago. They said that ageing is caused by the desintegration of the
>cromosomes (urgh. I hope I get half of the words right...), or more
>specifically, the ends of them. I don't remember much more...
>Anyway, my idea was that elfs don't show any signals of this decay,
until
>it's to late. Then, they seem to rapidly age (for about a month, or so)
and
>die.
>Did I mess anything up`?
Not really. The ends of the chromosomes are called the telomeres. When
the cell divides, a little bit of the telomere gets cut off. While it's
believed that the information coded in the telomeres is garbage, or
evolutionary leftovers at best, the problem apprently lies in what
happens when you run out telomere -- you guessed it, useful stuff gets
lost in the mix. Apparently this may be part of the problem with cancer -
the odd mutation that produces a cancer cell may cause it to produce a
hormone called telomerin, which rebuilds the telomeres after cell
division. My info's a bit old on that, though, and I don't know what (if
any) final verdict there was.
--
John Pederson "Oh my God! They killed Kenny!"
aka Canthros, shapeshifter-mage --South Park
lobo1@****.com canthros1@***.com john.e.pederson@***********.edu
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/4864 ICQ UIN 3190186
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 20:28:47 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@***01.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: GridSec Kicks Dogs! News at 11!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980501162945.3e6758b4@****.fbiz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
On 1 May 98 at 19:27, Erik Jameson wrote:
> But if I do see someone kicking a dog for real, I'm kicking
> someone's ass for real. And *that's* the only part of this message
> that isn't meant as a joke.
I'd be right there next to you. I don't condone that either. It was
said to make a point. Nothing more. Sorry if I offended anyone.
--
Drekhead
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 19:36:11 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: GridSec Kicks Dogs! News at 11!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980501162945.3e6758b4@****.fbiz.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Fri, 1 May 1998, Erik Jameson wrote:
> I'm shocked and horrified that an official member of GridSec no less would
> advocate the abuse of a poor, defenseless, innocent animal!
Innocent and defenceless??? I take it your GM has never set you up against
a pack of Cyberpuppies!!!! I had nightmares for weeks afterwards, and I
still shiver everytime I see a german shepard.
>
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Czar Eggbert
Ruler, Dark Side of the Moon.
homepage: http://travel.to/czareggbert.empire
mailto: czregbrt@*********.edu
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"I lived my life in a ship in a bottle in a world in a glass jar..."
-Mike Fontaine
"CRACK! SMASH! SHATTER!"
-Helen Stunkard
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 20:34:43 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses Publishing
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
[My computer was in the process of sending this when I got dumped from
the Internet; I apologize if this did actually make it to the list.]
Joshua Bell wrote:
> >> EPSILON (-90% essence, x100 cost, Avail. +20)
> >> SUPER EPSILON (-99% essence, x200 cost, Avail. +35)
> Munchkinism.. I think not, you mearly miss my point.
> I was mearly taking the "Essence" term of shadowrun to its logical
> conclusion. I DON'T want runners with every piece of cyberware in the
> books instaled in them.
The difficulty with allowing such low rates isn't that shadowrunner PCs
can get ahold of the equipment: it's that the NPCs can and, by all
rights, should have the top-tier stuff. A megacorp isn't going to waste
its time diddling out zero-generation cyberstuff to what really amount
to elite soldiers. The Essence cost for super-ep cyberstuff remains,
while the nuyen cost drops (they don't pay retail for it) and the
availability disappears (they manufacture it). So for the PCs, they
remain more or less within the bounds of 'normal' SR, while the enemies
can - and, again *should* - get geared up to levels that would normally
require cybermancy or weird Tir rites. You can always GM out of it:
send the runners against strictly fourth-tier companies, or dump enough
money in their laps to let them get the gems -- but that's a LOT of yen.
Incidentally, to compare the various levels to a real-world situation --
when's the last time you saw seven generations of the same product at
market together? This is sort of like having 286s side-by-side with
Pentium II's -- it doesn't happen.
- Matt
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 20:29:42 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: GridSec Kicks Dogs! News at 11!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
> At 04:37 PM 5/1/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >It would be my advice that every time you see something that pisses
> >you off, kick your dog <snipped>
>
> I'm shocked and horrified that an official member of GridSec no less
would
> advocate the abuse of a poor, defenseless, innocent animal!
I have no respect for a man who kicks his dog.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 21:37:16 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: How old do Shapeshifters get???
In-Reply-To: <19980501.191104.14694.0.lobo1@****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
You may notice a slight difference in the Subject line; the bad grammar was
giving me a terrible headache after all this time.
At 07:11 PM 5/1/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Not really. The ends of the chromosomes are called the telomeres. When
>the cell divides, a little bit of the telomere gets cut off. While it's
>believed that the information coded in the telomeres is garbage, or
>evolutionary leftovers at best, the problem apprently lies in what
>happens when you run out telomere -- you guessed it, useful stuff gets
>lost in the mix. Apparently this may be part of the problem with cancer -
>the odd mutation that produces a cancer cell may cause it to produce a
>hormone called telomerin, which rebuilds the telomeres after cell
>division. My info's a bit old on that, though, and I don't know what (if
>any) final verdict there was.
Hey, doesn't this maybe have something to do with that company that, what,
a few months ago announced that they had been able to practically make a
single cell immortal? Spawned all sort of discussions on if it could make
multiple-cellular organisms immortal also as I recall.
Some genetech lab, I think in Texas (which in all honesty, isn't the place
I think of when I think of high-tech). It's stock shot through the roof in
the following week after the announcement was made, it made the covers of
magazines like Time and Newsweek, their spokespeople were on TV programs
everywhere (damn what I wouldn't have given to been their PR person!).
I don't recall the specifics at all. Someone with a better memory, step up
to the free throw line and shoot some info our way.
Erik J.
And this is the last post of the week for me. By the time you read it,
I'll be home, cracking open a nice bottle of Welsh Bitter
Ale...mmmmm...bitters...BYE!
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 21:09:43 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Andrews <jmandrews@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: The talks on my Cyberware post.
In-Reply-To: <16C16027AE@**.opp.psu.edu>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Fri, 1 May 1998, Brett Borger wrote:
> Ah, but Essence is not a measure of man vs. machine, but rather a
> question of "themselves-ness". Certainly, they can reduce the
> "machine-ness" as you say, but not 99%. A data could never be .001
> essence because it isn't organic, and doesn't perform human
> functions.
>
Well, sure... But. What if you were to make the data more human in form?
They might be able to do that--seems like the logical extension to me...
Jonathan Andrews
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 21:13:53 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Andrews <jmandrews@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: The talks on my Cyberware post.
In-Reply-To: <SHADOWRN%98050116351904@********.ITRIBE.NET>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Fri, 1 May 1998, Oliver McDonald wrote:
> Hear here. I really wonder why FASA bothered with the Cyber-Zombie... Perhaps so
> GM's could throw them at players, but as a GM, I would never allow a player to become
> one. A munchkin type player would consider the 'drawbacks' as advantages.
>
Getting cancer and dying wouldn't be an advantage for anyone, neh? Sure,
cyberzombies might be hellaciously unbalancing, but its nothing a good GM
can't handle--with a little ingenuity and thought. _If_ that's the kind of
campaign you like.... Personally, yuch. ;)
Jonathan Andrews
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 21:38:32 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Stephen Delear <c715591@******.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: ASIST assistance?
In-Reply-To: <1A0A9240E8@**.opp.psu.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>ACtually, I have a book "101 things to do with a dead computer".
>Pretty funny. My favorite is turning the monitor into a fishtank.
Um the computer science department here has an old dumb terminal that's
been converted into a planter.
SteveD
>
>But to get to your point, I'd say that the differences between the
>hardware of a Turtle and a 'deck go beyond running ASIST...they work
>on different principles. Sadly, I have nothing to back me up.
>Anyone want to help me out?
>
>-=SwiftOne=-\
>
Stephen Delear
University of Missouri-Columbia
Check out my Photo Message Board at http://www.missouri.edu/~c715591
"Sometimes I do get to places just when God's ready to have somebody click
the shutter" Ansel Adams
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 21:45:08 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Stephen Delear <c715591@******.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: How old do Shapeshifters get???
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980501173310.1af7d108@****.fbiz.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Some genetech lab, I think in Texas (which in all honesty, isn't the place
>I think of when I think of high-tech). It's stock shot through the roof in
>the following week after the announcement was made, it made the covers of
>magazines like Time and Newsweek, their spokespeople were on TV programs
>everywhere (damn what I wouldn't have given to been their PR person!).
<Texan>
Actually a lot of genetech researchi is done at Texas A&M (college
station). Also Austin has ALOT of computer manufactoring and programing
going on (basically making chips though Austin does have it's fair share of
programers).
</Texan>
>
>I don't recall the specifics at all. Someone with a better memory, step up
>to the free throw line and shoot some info our way.
>
>Erik J.
>
>And this is the last post of the week for me. By the time you read it,
>I'll be home, cracking open a nice bottle of Welsh Bitter
>Ale...mmmmm...bitters...BYE!
>
SteveD
Stephen Delear
University of Missouri-Columbia
Check out my Photo Message Board at http://www.missouri.edu/~c715591
"Sometimes I do get to places just when God's ready to have somebody click
the shutter" Ansel Adams
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 21:47:03 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Stephen Delear <c715591@******.MISSOURI.EDU>
Subject: Re: The talks on my Cyberware post.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.PMDF.3.95.980501210731.6231A-100000@***.harding.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 09:09 PM 98-05-01 -0500, you wrote:
>On Fri, 1 May 1998, Brett Borger wrote:
>
>> Ah, but Essence is not a measure of man vs. machine, but rather a
>> question of "themselves-ness". Certainly, they can reduce the
>> "machine-ness" as you say, but not 99%. A data could never be .001
>> essence because it isn't organic, and doesn't perform human
>> functions.
>>
>Well, sure... But. What if you were to make the data more human in form?
>They might be able to do that--seems like the logical extension to me...
>
> Jonathan Andrews
>
Let me get this right you want to take somebodies arm, clone it, change the
genes so that it's bones are laced titanium and cause a subdermal layer of
armor to grow, sounds like full body transplant time.
SteveD
Stephen Delear
University of Missouri-Columbia
Check out my Photo Message Board at http://www.missouri.edu/~c715591
"Sometimes I do get to places just when God's ready to have somebody click
the shutter" Ansel Adams
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 16:26:33 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Russ Myrick <ceedawg@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Woohoo!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lady Jestyr wrote:
> Hi guys! I'm back!
>
> For those who didn't know, over Easter my boyfriend and I got ripped off
> and they stole our computers and modem. I've now managed to borrow
> hardware off my friends, so I'm back on line! FINALLY! :)
>
> Being internet-less for three weeks really sucks!
>
> Lady Jestyr
>
> - I'm in touch with my Inner Klingon... -
> | Elle Holmes | jestyr@**********.com | http://jestyr.home.ml.org |
> | Shadowrun Webring Ringmaster | GeoCities Leader | RPGA Reviewer |
Welcome back! I hope the boys in blue are a bit more enthusiastic where
you are than they are here (did they take prints?) and that you have
insurance on your gear other than "home owners" (most h.o. policies only
cover $2500 in computers & periphrials)
ceedawg
ps once again RL lends itself to SR adventure plots for evil GM use
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 01:41:11 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Zeitgeists (Ghosts in Time?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Jeremy "Bolthy" Zimmerman escreveu:
>
>
> Here's my original response:
>
> Okay, thought I'd give my input on the write up. I thought it was
> generally interesting, but a few things kinda nagged at me....
>
> The first was that they can only appear human, which I thought was a little
> silly. I've noticed that with many spirits, particularly Spirits of Man,
> their appearance is based more off of perception than soul. On top of
> which, it would be pretty hard for a Hate Lumini to get the trolls of an
> anti-human organization to go rampaging after humans if the spirit looked
> like human. He'd probably just get whacked.
>
> Another thing that got me right away is the association of Wisdom with Math
> and Science. If anything I'd associate these with the Lumini of the
> Machine. I would find it more applicable to be associated with the social
> skills, which you pointed out, as well the more "common sense" knowledges,
> such as all the different types of "Theories". Art I would place more in
> the realm of "Love" then "Wisdom".
>
> It cuts off in the midst of War, I think, and so that's about the end of
> what I can consider. =) I should also note that I think stats should have
> been listed with it.
Their original form is human, but if necessary, they (specially the
"evil ones" :) )
can use illusions or change shape temporarilly. The Hate Luminus could
anger the trolls
by inciting humans to act against them, thus spreading hate on both
sides...
I ahven't got to the Machine on that file yet, but imagine this: When
you think of Math
for Wisdom Lumini, think of Leonardo DaVinci hunched over a sheet of
paper with a quill in
his hand, designing one of his brilliant inventions, not in some
computer calculating. Think
of the entusiasm you feel when you solve a problem on your own, without
technological help.
This is the feeling those Lumini represent. It's the creative process
rather than the final
product.
And about the stats, each individual spirit is quite unique, and
since they represent emotions,
what better thing than let their stats be created subjectively? :)
Powers are used with Essence,
wich is also TN for conjuring, Banishing, etc. And the GM determines all
stats.
Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 01:34:34 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: What's on the Trid? (was Re: OT: Babylon 5 news/SR TV)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote;
>Dragging this on-topic:
>What kind of trid shows are popular in SR? The Odd Coven is the only
>one I can really recall (apart from Combat Biking, Urban Brawl and
>Desert Wars, but those are really sports).
That much looked over Shadowbeat has some examples of programming. If you
can't get a hold of a copy I post some of the shows later, I've got to
celebrate my birthday all weekend. L8R...
B;>]#
-MC23, who is still happy to own a copy-
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 01:43:19 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: The talks on my Cyberware post.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, Joshua Bell wrote;
>Munchkinism.. I think not, you mearly miss my point.
>
> I was mearly taking the "Essence" term of shadowrun to its logical
>conclusion. <snip>
So does _A Modest Proposal_.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
"CYNIC, n. A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are,
not as they ought to be."
-The Devil's Dictionary, Ambrose Bierce
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 02:03:19 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: The talks on my Cyberware post.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 5/1/98 6:29:56 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM writes:
> Incidentally, to compare the various levels to a real-world situation --
> when's the last time you saw seven generations of the same product at
> market together? This is sort of like having 286s side-by-side with
> Pentium II's -- it doesn't happen.
>
Really? Then what is a "Ham Fest?"
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 02:07:16 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: The talks on my Cyberware post.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, Ereskanti wrote;
>In a message dated 5/1/98 6:29:56 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM writes:
>
>> Incidentally, to compare the various levels to a real-world situation --
>> when's the last time you saw seven generations of the same product at
>> market together? This is sort of like having 286s side-by-side with
>> Pentium II's -- it doesn't happen.
>>
>Really? Then what is a "Ham Fest?"
A gathering of people to collect items no longer in the market.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 22:42:00 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Nesius <nesius@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Riderless Blitzen
In-Reply-To:
<cÊ%a=GOVMT.CANADA%p=GC+EC%lìNCR_EXCH2-980429151634Z-83069@***.ncr.ec.
gc.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 8:16 AM -0700 4/29/98, Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote:
>>be stolen. If people actually did this, I'd drive around with a
>>big flatbed truck that has a big winch/arm on it, and snag the bikes.
>
>Oh boy. You don't think that might attract a little attention?
>Usually, car thieves try *not* to be noticed - this precludes driving
>around in a tow-truck and grabbing cars on the freeway... :-)
>
In the Puyallup? I could see the thing getting nuked on a whim.
Not to mention go-gangs bashing it in for kicks. :)
In any case, thanks to all who provided input on this. Looks like
remote control is possible, although I will probably only
allow this initially with bikes w/ sidecars. As for auto-gyro's
stabalizing the bike, those are something I'll consider for the future.
-Rob
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 23:34:36 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Nesius <nesius@******.COM>
Subject: Re: ASIST assistance?
In-Reply-To: <199805020238.VAA134350@****.missouri.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>But to get to your point, I'd say that the differences between the
>>hardware of a Turtle and a 'deck go beyond running ASIST...they work
>>on different principles. Sadly, I have nothing to back me up.
>>Anyone want to help me out?
>>
>>-=SwiftOne=-\
>>
Actually, it may be that simple.
Turtle - non ASSIST interface. Manual I/O devices required.
Datajack interface - ASSIST interface - wetware display technology (your
brain), and probably wetware input as well. However, I consistantly
see deckers described as typing away as they hack, although I see it more
as hitting function/macro keys. ie: Load Attack 5, Scan Filesystem...
ie: Macro buttons for system operations with hooks to appropriate
programs.
The Off topic part.
Regarding BIOS and what not, it's my impression that it's a firmware
layer between the OS and the hardware. I think the BIOS is involved in
the bootstrap process on PCs. When I start up my NT workstation at
work, I see the BIOS stuff sanity checking things before the OS gets
a chance to do anything.
At 7:38 PM -0700 5/1/98, Stephen Delear wrote:
>>ACtually, I have a book "101 things to do with a dead computer".
>>Pretty funny. My favorite is turning the monitor into a fishtank.
>
>Um the computer science department here has an old dumb terminal that's
>been converted into a planter.
I worked at Apple for 2.5 years, and I saw some of the old Macs that
were of the old "all in one" form factor put to use for non-computing
tasks. Two that come to mind are:
1) The Fat Mac Fish Tank. A gutted box with an aquarium inside.
2) The MacBong. A coworker of mine (who shall remain nameless), gutted
the box, and had a clear plexiglass box inside. From the top of
the box, there was a hose running up through the top of the Mac, where
it went into a 4-way split, so it was multi-pothead capable.
Wish I had a picture of it. I never saw the final production model, but
I saw it near completion.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 23:40:21 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Running to GridSec?/Proper Subject lines [OT]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
> >> Look, we here at RN are a big giant international dsyfunctional
> >> family. We all just have to deal with that.
> >
> >Erik....<sniffle>...I love ya man!
> >
> ><Swiftone, sobbing, gives Erik a big hug>
> HEY!! Get OFF ME!!!
>
> <mumble>
> damn touchy feely crap I thought the Internet was supposed to be
impersonal
> what the hell are these freaks doing hugging me I oughta kick their ass
> doesn't he know real men don't hug the slap and hit each other I just
don't
> get it...
> </mumble>
>
> Actually, that very nearly made me laugh out loud. While in and of
itself
> that isn't a bad thing, when are by yourself in your office and you
> suddenly start to laugh or giggle, co-workers walking by tend to think
you
> are extremely bizarre. And the people here think I'm odd enough as it
is.
Which brings up a good point and one which i've been meaning to bring to
GridSec attention. Now many of us on the list access email from work and
humorous mail can be a troublesome int he work place, as detailed above by
Erik, I would appreciate it if we could all take a lesson from me, Caric,
and only send On Topic, non-humorous posts to RN. Thank you.
;)
> Thanks for the humor.
>
> And now back to your regularly scheduled, on-topic, mailing list...
Did you send this to the wrong list Erik? Because I don't think we're
subbed to the same one. <BFG>
Caric-the-spread-the-madness-shaman
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 02:48:45 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: ASIST assistance?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 5/2/98 1:33:04 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
nesius@******.COM writes:
> Actually, it may be that simple.
> Turtle - non ASSIST interface. Manual I/O devices required.
> Datajack interface - ASSIST interface - wetware display technology (your
> brain), and probably wetware input as well. However, I consistantly
> see deckers described as typing away as they hack, although I see it more
> as hitting function/macro keys. ie: Load Attack 5, Scan Filesystem...
> ie: Macro buttons for system operations with hooks to appropriate
> programs.
>
Ah, the pains of the past. I am so glad no one has to go through that stuff
in the games anymore...though it does go over funny for the magician who
decided to take "Keyboarding" as a Centering Skill while he was busy working
on his spell formula...(smirk).
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 03:27:29 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Craig J Wilhelm Jr <craigjwjr@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: GridSec Kicks Dogs! News at 11!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980501162945.3e6758b4@****.fbiz.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On 07:27 PM 5/1/98 , Erik Jameson wrote:
>But if I do see someone kicking a dog for real, I'm kicking someone's ass
>for real. And *that's* the only part of this message that isn't meant as a
>joke.
You'd condone beating on a human and not a mutt? Hmm... Why don't we
just make nicey-face and just save our strenuous physical activities for
the bedroom and the beating for the bathroom...
Craig "Knee Deep in the Blood of Swine" Wilhelm
Afterlife Incorperated,
Quality Carnage at Affordable Prices.
UIN: 1864690
-------------BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
v3.12
GAT/$ d- s+:+ a- C+++ U--- P+ L- E-- W++ N++
o K- w+ O> !M-- !V PS+ PE Y+ PGP++ t--- 5+++
X-- R++ tv b++ DI-- D+(Q2++) G++ e++ h* r y++**
--------------END GEEK CODE BLOCK--------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 01:17:38 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Nesius <nesius@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Vampires ( & Mages )
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980501113111.692A-100000@****.mankato.msus.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi there,
In regards to the topic of merging WOD Vampire: The Masquerade
w/ Shadowrun, this was done in a game I played in years back, and I'll
probably do something similar in my game.
Essentially:
Bagged the clans - we kept the SR vampiric origin.
Kept the traditions - Domain, etc...
Kept the ambience of White Wolfe's vampires - the goth darkness, the
cold manipulative backstabbing with political powerplays. Granted,
our "elders" were pretty recent in terms of time ,but it all worked out.
Basically, we mapped the social aspects of kindred society over into SR
vampires, but left them the same in terms of mechanics. The SR books
didn't go into the dyanmics of vampiric society much, so we borrowed
White Wolf's.
The other area I'm giving serious consideration to is mapping some of
White Wolf's mage stuff over to SR. Again, only social aspects.
ie: An initiate group of mages that has the agenda of gaining power and,
more importantly, money - a "syndicate" initiate group. Basically, I've
considered mapping some of the traditions (Technocracy and others) over as
initiate groups. As I write this, it occurred to me that an ascension war
of some sort could even be possible, but that's an idea that just occurred
to me and I haven't thought it through.
In summary, I like to borrow ideas for societal things, but I don't like
to directly map mechanics or systems.
-Rob
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 00:38:54 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Nesius <nesius@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Its that time of the year....
In-Reply-To: <GNECLLIIPNJHBAAA@****city.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Favorite Totems:
Rat - lots of fun.
Past Shaman's I've enjoyed:
Owl - I played a mute Owl Shaman named Silent.
In the same game, the other half of the magical talent was a blind
Moon shaman. That combination of totems and disabilities was a lot
of fun.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 07:54:49 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Airwasp <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Zeitgeists (Ghosts in Time?)
Mime-Version: 1.0
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> But I would argue against anything such as "Zeitgeist" spirits in SR.
> Doesn't make sense in the "official" SR cosmology. And even if it did
make
> sense, I would argue against it because a zeitgeist is so damn hard to
> define, and I don't just mean the word itself but what it is referring
to.
>
> I don't know, it would sort of be like having "happiness" or
"lust" or
> "melancholy" spirits, just as you have Hearth or Forest spirits.
>
<<Yeah, I got that mood or feeling thing. After I'd posted my original thing
and thought about it, I realized how damnably vague it was. But then, so
are "Spirits of the Fiery Firmament" if you ask me. =) But you did touch
on one of my major influences. Ubiritan's idea of Lumini was what gave me
the idea for this.
The idea I hashed out last night is that my so called "Zeitgeists" are
spirits tied to an object or place that symbolizes an era, time period,
event, whatever. They are very definitely a type of "Spirit of Man".
However, they are more in tune with social trends, and the emotions tied to
an event than they are to physical locations. So, you may not be able to
use them to search for a person in a city, but they may be able to give you
perspective on any influence a person had in their native time period.
These spirits would fit more with the scholars, and maybe the information
brokers, of the SR universe than the runners. Some of the potential ways
that I envisioned it using spirit powers may have some uses, but nuyen for
soy-donuts, I'd put my money on a hearth spirit, city spirit, whatever if I
needed help in a scrap.
I can do a full write up if anyone is curious. I even came up with a sort
of scholarly totem that could summon up these spirits.>>
Guys, sorry, but something funny is going on with my mailer so I am having all
sorts of fun answering mail today.
Perhaps there is another option on how to consider Zeitgeists, they are a
variation on Ancestral Spirits from the Cyberpirates Sourcebook. But instead
of being an ancestor, they are something -OR- someone who embodies the very
essence of that time period (I could just see one coming from the late 60's in
the US ... hello flower child).
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 08:04:11 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Airwasp <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: The talks on my Cyberware post.
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 5/2/98 6:04:15 AM !!!First Boot!!!, Ereskanti@***.COM
writes:
> > Incidentally, to compare the various levels to a real-world situation --
> > when's the last time you saw seven generations of the same product at
> > market together? This is sort of like having 286s side-by-side with
> > Pentium II's -- it doesn't happen.
> >
> Really? Then what is a "Ham Fest?"
>
> -K
>
What about SHirley Maclaine ? :P
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 14:43:50 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: The talks on my Cyberware post.
In-Reply-To: <SHADOWRN%98050116351904@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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Oliver McDonald said on 13:37/ 1 May 98...
> Hear here. I really wonder why FASA bothered with the Cyber-Zombie...
> Perhaps so GM's could throw them at players, but as a GM, I would never
> allow a player to become one. A munchkin type player would consider the
> 'drawbacks' as advantages.
Then don't allow them to players you suspect will abuse the character's
possibilities and drawbacks. When you think a player is up to it, why not?
In my campaign, for example, there is one player I wouldn't allow to play
a cyberzombie -- he's always out to take disadvantages that won't bother
him (like allergies to things he "knows" he come into contact with), and
when he does suffer from those disadvantages he chose himself, he starts
to complain until I (and often the other players too) tell him to shut up
and play the goddamn character already.
OTOH I've a player who seemed to like the idea of the disadvantages of the
cyberzombie, and looked at them more than at the bonuses. Our campaign
thus ended up with a very paranoid cyberzombie who was being roleplayed
very well compared to some other characters in the group. In that case I
have no problem with someone wanting a cyberzombie PC.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 14:43:52 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Double Type Ammo
In-Reply-To:
<cÊ%a=GOVMT.CANADA%p=GC+EC%lìNCR_EXCH2-980501162842Z-88971@***.ncr.ec.gc.ca>
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Ojaste,James [NCR] said on 12:28/ 1 May 98...
> Possibly. You *are* buying weaponry and ammunition illegally, aren't
> you? So do you know exactly how that box ended up in your fixer's
> hands? Maybe he went out to the site of a firefight and started
> scooping up casings...
It could be a cheap way to sell ammo to shadowrunners who don't think to
check things out beforehand...
> (Assuming that buying ammo is illegal in Seattle - can't check
> right now)
For most ammo types, it's the same as the weapon you're firing it from.
> Not to mention that some groups are so miserly with their ammo that
> the ammo they pick off the sec. guards is more than enough...
I've hardly ever seen anyone run out of ammo in an SR firefight, unless
they were using weapons like double-barrel shotguns that only hold a
handful of rounds.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 14:43:51 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Double Type Ammo
In-Reply-To: <3549DD8F.91468C6B@************.com.br>
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Ubiratan P. Alberton said on 11:34/ 1 May 98...
> I'm not a guns expert... I just based that on what they said in the
> movie Aliens, wich takes place a lot of years in the future.
Popular movies are usually a bad to very bad choice to base such things
on. SF movies are often worst of all, because for some reason because it's
far-future it doesn't have to obey the laws of physics. (Which IMHO is
fine for space opera, but not for the more "down and dirty" kind of SF
portrayed in Aliens.)
> I assume the M-41A fires HP ammo (how else could you fit 95 bullets in
> a clip?).
95 rounds of ammo, of any caliber, take up quite a lot of space, and the
Aliens weapons don't make all that much sense to me -- they're much too
big and cumbersome, although with 95 rounds they'd have to be ;)
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 14:43:52 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
In-Reply-To: <3729.199805011623@*****.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
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Spike said on 17:23/ 1 May 98...
> i just heard something recently about linus that i find quite....
> enlightening....
>
> Guess what the computer was that got him interested in operating systems....
>
> Go on.... You'll never guess....
A QL?
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 14:43:51 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Info wanted
In-Reply-To: <19980501215240.24309.qmail@*******.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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The Vagabond said on 14:52/ 1 May 98...
> No. Your body index is like your body index. It's a gauge of how
> much bioware you can put into your body, and it doesn't increase or
> decrease- it just is. If you have a body of 5, you can put 5 points
> worth of bioware into your body. Bio and cyber mods do NOT count when
> determining your body index.
The Body Index is the sum of the Body Costs of all pieces of bioware you
have installed. I'll grant you that Shadowtech does start off explaining
it in a bit of a strange way, by saying the Body Index is the maximum
total Body Cost, but if you read on a bit it becomes clear the BI is equal
to the total cost of all bioware items.
> And note: When a magically active character uses bioware, the B.I.
> rating is the same as it's cost in essence.
> For example, if a mage used a piece of bioware that had a BI rating
> of 1, he would subtract also one point of essence.
A common house rule is to say that bioware doesn't cost Essence to a
magician, but lowers Magic as if it did -- IOW the Magic Attribute is
equal to Essence minus Body Index, rounded down.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 09:26:59 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, Gurth wrote;
>Spike said on 17:23/ 1 May 98...
>
>> i just heard something recently about linus that i find quite....
>> enlightening....
>>
>> Guess what the computer was that got him interested in operating systems....
>>
>> Go on.... You'll never guess....
>
>A QL?
Timex Sinclair?
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 14:00:37 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Rune Fostervoll <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: The talks on my Cyberware post.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.PMDF.3.95.980501211112.6231C-100000@***.harding.edu>
(message from Jonathan Andrews on Fri, 1 May 1998 21:13:53 -0500)
>> Hear here. I really wonder why FASA bothered with the Cyber-Zombie...
>>Perhaps so GM's could throw them at players, but as a GM, I would never
>>allow a player to become one. A munchkin type player would consider the
>>'drawbacks' as advantages.
>
>Getting cancer and dying wouldn't be an advantage for anyone, neh? Sure,
>cyberzombies might be hellaciously unbalancing, but its nothing a good GM
>can't handle--with a little ingenuity and thought. _If_ that's the kind of
>campaign you like.... Personally, yuch. ;)
Hm... the way I run it (Not standard FASA, though) about half the megas
has cyberzombies, the other half has deltaware. None has both. Few zombies
has beta or better. That way you seldom see thingies with more than 15 or
so (modified) points of cyber. Zombies with delta is just too much of a ..
good? bad? thing.
--
Fade
ADVICE, n. The smallest current coin.
-Ambrose Bierce
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 10:16:50 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: GridSec Kicks Dogs! News at 11!
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 5/2/98 2:25:16 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
craigjwjr@*********.NET writes:
> You'd condone beating on a human and not a mutt? Hmm... Why don't we
> just make nicey-face and just save our strenuous physical activities for
> the bedroom and the beating for the bathroom...
>
BAD!!! VERY BAD!!!!
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 10:50:33 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid? (was Re: OT: Babylon 5 news/SR TV)
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----------
> From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
>
> That much looked over Shadowbeat has some examples of programming. If
you
> can't get a hold of a copy I post some of the shows later, I've got to
> celebrate my birthday all weekend. L8R...
> B;>]#
Well, one thing we can be sure of is that Dick Clark will still be doing
the same damn New Years Eve Special...
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 12:39:50 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paul Gettle <pgettle@********.NET>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid? (was Re: OT: Babylon 5 news/SR TV)
In-Reply-To: <199805021604.LAA16849@*****.interkan.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
At 10:50 AM 5/2/98 -0500, Nexx wrote:
>Well, one thing we can be sure of is that Dick Clark will still be
doing
>the same damn New Years Eve Special...
Will his earpoints be showing by then?
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Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.3
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--
-- Paul Gettle (pgettle@********.net)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:11455339 (RSA 1024, created 97/08/08)
625A FFF0 76DC A077 D21C 556B BB58 00AA
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 18:37:27 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
In-Reply-To: <15B7C75B4A@**.opp.psu.edu> from "Brett Borger" at May 1,
98 03:00:33 pm
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And verily, did Brett Borger hastily scribble thusly...
|
|> Guys. You are wandering dangerously near the off-limits subject of
|> OS wars (see the FAQ). Please bring it back to Shadowrun.
|
|Ahem. About 5 or six messages before this I composed a wonderful
|message ripping on Microsoft, and basically saying stuff we've all
|heard before. I then deleted it. Seeing this message, I see it was
|the right choice, but if you could all do me the favor of pretending
|you read that message, were stunned at my logic and in awe of my
|rhetoric, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.
I'll never be stunned by a Microsoft ripping post....
(I'd agree wholeheartedly, but wouldn't be stunned...)
:)
OK... STOP HITTING ME!
I'LL SHUT UP NOW!
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 18:46:20 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Running to GridSec?/Proper Subject lines
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980501141322.230fc036@****.fbiz.com> from "Erik
Jameson" at May 1, 98 05:11:09 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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And verily, did Erik Jameson hastily scribble thusly...
|It may be hard for some people to believe, but I do try very hard to not
|just haul off on people; back when I was given the name
|"list.member.grumpy"
huh? Wha?...
Did someone call?
<reads more closely>
Ahhhh. Forget I spoke....
I lobbed Molotov Coctails around this list like they
|were common water ballons. If you can believe it, I think I might at times
|have put Spike to shame with my incendiary viciousness.
Nahhhh....
I can't believe that....
:)
Mind you, I always preferred carp to molotov cocktails.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 13:48:15 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Something Interesting I Must have missed...
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Hi all, I found this on the Rec.games list earlier (yes, I was slumming it)...
> PS: Who were the _______ (please insert the number here) surviving Echo
> Mirage team members?: Fast Jack, Lucien Cross (of Cross Applied
> Technologies BLOOD in the BOARDROOM, p.57), ______ , _______, ....
> Note: Kyle Haeffner's first wife Alice was part of the Echo Mirage
> team but she died fighting the Crash Virus/AI. (TARGET: UCAS, pp.51-52).
And then in another book, "Alice" is a running loose presence in the Matrix...
Connections? Thoughts? Etc...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 18:54:28 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <yam7426.1775.137633744@****.comcity.de> from "Barbie" at
May 2,
98 00:00:35 am
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And verily, did Barbie hastily scribble thusly...
|
|At 01-Mai-98 wrote Joshua Bell:
|
|Sorry but this the only thing I can say about this cyber grade post.
LOL!
My, my, my....
You *have* been working hard on your THWAPPING, haven't you?
I'll miss the 1000 year old carp though,,,
| (Carp: circa 1864) * *
Why not (Carp: circa 998AD)
P.S. It does look a bit more whaley than carpy....
:)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 19:04:45 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Running to GridSec?/Proper Subject lines
In-Reply-To: <354A63B8.2385524B@**********.com> from "Geoff Morochnick"
at May
1, 98 08:07:20 pm
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And verily, did Geoff Morochnick hastily scribble thusly...
<ENTIRE LONG POST SNIPPED>
|<wild applause>
|Yay!
|</wild applause>
And you quoted the entire post just to add THAT?
##### # # # # ## #####
# # # # # # # # #
# ###### # # # # # #
# # # # ## # ###### #####
# # # ## ## # # #
# # # # # # # #
STOP IT!
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 19:07:56 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: ASIST assistance?
In-Reply-To: <199805020238.VAA134350@****.missouri.edu> from "Stephen
Delear"
at May 1, 98 09:38:32 pm
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And verily, did Stephen Delear hastily scribble thusly...
|
|>ACtually, I have a book "101 things to do with a dead computer".
|>Pretty funny. My favorite is turning the monitor into a fishtank.
|
|Um the computer science department here has an old dumb terminal that's
|been converted into a planter.
Personally, my favourite books in that series were...
101 things to do with a dead cat....
101 more things to do with a dead cat...
and
Cats revenge: 101 things to do with a dead human.
:)
(And yes, they really do exist)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 19:11:54 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
In-Reply-To: <199805021243.OAA20443@****2.xs4all.nl> from "Gurth" at May
2,
98 02:43:52 pm
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And verily, did Gurth hastily scribble thusly...
|A QL?
Darn.... Have you been reading ahead in the posts?
If not, I'll stop now before I get in trouble....
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 19:12:50 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
In-Reply-To: <199805021328.JAA09295@******.mindspring.com> from "MC23" at
May
2, 98 09:26:59 am
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And verily, did MC23 hastily scribble thusly...
|>A QL?
|
|Timex Sinclair?
Sinclair, yes. Timex had nothing to do with Sinclair on this side of the
pond....
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 11:14:15 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Vagabond <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: The talks on my Cyberware post.
Content-Type: text/plain
>>> EPSILON (-90% essence, x100 cost, Avail. +20)
>>> SUPER EPSILON (-99% essence, x200 cost, Avail. +35)
>
>Munchkinism.. I think not, you mearly miss my point.
>
> I was mearly taking the "Essence" term of shadowrun to its
logical
>conclusion. I DON'T want runners with every piece of cyberware in the
>books instaled in them. What I was going towards is the perfect
synergy of
>man and machine. Think about it. Essence cost IMHO is not just a
>"limitation" for players so they do not get to powerful, but an
indication
>of "Man vs. Machine." So it is quite logical that as time passes, we as
a
>culture (in shadowrun), will be able to implant people with cyberware
>without making them more "machine."
Er go, "I'm not trying to make them more munchkin, just trying to cram
as much cyber into a body as humanly possible without any penalties
being applied."
Mother Nature and Father Technology are very estranged- that's the
whole point of Shadowrun. And no, it's not logical that as time passes
we will be able to cram cyber into someone with a 1% essence reduction.
I believe the saying is "Denile just ain't a river in Egypt."
I'm not slighting what you are doing. If your PCs want to be
munchkin, that's fine. If YOU want to be munchkin that's fine. But
don't sit there and tell me a 1% essence reduction- at whatever cost-
isn't munchkin. It's simple rules manipulation to cram as much cyber
into a body as possible without feeling the effects. Munchkinism
defined.
> I mean REALLY guys, I did read CyberTechnology, and IMHO I
would much
>rather have a runner with GAMMA or EPSILON implants than have to deal
with
>a Cyber Zombie PC.
If you read Cybertech, how come you were so far off base about
Deltaware? At any rate...
Your the GM(I assume)- you shouldn't have to deal with either Cyber
zombies OR Deltaware(or higher) if you don't want to. Like I said,
Delta Clincs are *RARE*. You can't have a delta-cyberfiend, or
CyberZombie unless they sell their soul- and even then it's not certain
they'll survive the cyberzombie process.
"Sometimes, dead is better."
-Vagabond
"Under wandering stars I've grown"
________________________________________________________
<nomad74@*******.com> <ICQ 4297972>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 13:19:24 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <neon@******.BACKBONE.OLEMISS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Munchkinism at it's finest
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 05:43 PM 5/1/98 -0300, Ubiratan P. Alberton wrote:
>> Those are correct and IMO they work.
>>
>> > >*GAMMA (-80%) ( Cost x20) (Availability = +13)
>>
>> I have this in my game but my numbers ar -60%/X20
>>
>
> IIRC, in the Greek Aplphabet gamma comes BEFORE delta, doesn't it? So
>the
>-60% stuff should be etha (after delta).
>
Actually, the Greek alphabet is: Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta, Epsilon, Zeta,
Eta, Theta, Iota....
Mike Broadwater
Member of the Blackhand and Dwarven Illuminati
http://www.olemiss.edu/~neon/
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 13:25:54 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <neon@******.BACKBONE.OLEMISS.EDU>
Subject: Re: ASIST assistance?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:43 PM 5/1/98 EST, Brett Borger wrote:
>> I stand by my earlier definition, though I guess it's probably
>> closer to a video card than a driver. The OS is the platform on
>> which the programs run. Calling ASIST an OS is like calling my
>> keyboard and monitor an OS.
>
>Note the important part there...the keyboard. ASIST is more than
>just the output driver, it's also the INPUT driver. Okay, so it's
>not an OS....but it is at least the BIOS. And a lot of the OS is a
>layer above the BIOS that does the same function.
>
>-=SwiftOne=-
The bios doesn't deal with direct I/O. That's the keyboard and monitor,
as was already said. BIOS may do some I/O control, but that's as far
as it goes. ASIST just does input/output. It's not software that dictates
how memory is allocated, drive access, runs software, etc. You would, most
likely, need an OS to _run_ ASIST.
Mike Broadwater
Member of the Blackhand and Dwarven Illuminati
http://www.olemiss.edu/~neon/
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 13:34:37 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <neon@******.BACKBONE.OLEMISS.EDU>
Subject: Re: The talks on my Cyberware post.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 02:07 AM 5/2/98 -0400, MC23 wrote:
>>> Incidentally, to compare the various levels to a real-world situation --
>>> when's the last time you saw seven generations of the same product at
>>> market together? This is sort of like having 286s side-by-side with
>>> Pentium II's -- it doesn't happen.
>>>
>>Really? Then what is a "Ham Fest?"
>
>A gathering of people to collect items no longer in the market.
It's called "rhetoric". You may encounter it again.
Mike Broadwater
Member of the Blackhand and Dwarven Illuminati
http://www.olemiss.edu/~neon/
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 14:41:53 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Joshuwa Jenkins <colossus@***********.NET>
Subject: Re: ASIST assistance?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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>Michael Broadwater wrote:
>The bios doesn't deal with direct I/O. That's the keyboard and monitor,
>as was already said. BIOS may do some I/O control, but that's as far
>as it goes. ASIST just does input/output. It's not software that dictates
>how memory is allocated, drive access, runs software, etc. You would, most
>likely, need an OS to _run_ ASIST.
I always figured MPCP was the OS in SR.
Would the MPCP take care of the CMOS job?
Sort of OS+CMOS.
Or would ASIST take care of the CMOS job along with the basic BIOS tasks?
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 13:54:58 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses Publishing
Subject: Re: The talks on my Cyberware post.
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Michael Broadwater wrote:
> >>> Incidentally, to compare the various levels to a real-world situation --
> >>> when's the last time you saw seven generations of the same product at
> >>> market together? This is sort of like having 286s side-by-side with
> >>> Pentium II's -- it doesn't happen.
> >>Really? Then what is a "Ham Fest?"
> >A gathering of people to collect items no longer in the market.
> It's called "rhetoric". You may encounter it again.
The initial response missed the point. The rejoinder pointed out that a
ham fest isn't a retail market situation. You apparently didn't pick up
on that, either.
You *don't* see seven generations of the same product at a retail market
at the same time. That's not to suggest that old product lines vaporize
once they're past the expiration date; they would not, however, be
treated in the same manner as the regular market goods. The original
post, with its listings of increasing availabilities and price
multipliers, seemed to suggest that all of the various levels *would* be
sold on the market simultaneously. OK, epsilon or super-epsilon may be
r&d only, but that still leaves five levels representing a *very* broad
band of capability (from 0% to an 75% Essence decrease, iirc). That
doesn't happen in the conventional market.
- Matt
------------------------------------
Ask me tonight why love is strange
For I am drunk and full of reasons....
SRCard list.member.newbie
Teen Poets FAQ: http://pw1.netcom.com/~mbreton/poetry/poetfaq.htm
SRTCG Website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/2189/ccgtop.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 14:38:39 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sheldon Rose <scrose@****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> > >
> >
> > So in the end you have the deckers running their own OSs on their
> > computers, and the standard users running some mass-marketed crap?
I have to disagree with this statement. Just because an OS is
mass-marketed or not does not denote weather or not it is crap... I'm
fond of win95/NT even if it is system 7 with some dumb stuff added in.
To have a vast selection of user friendly affordible applications is an
advantage in and of itself. I use Linux and my X-windows is higly
customized I like to mess with things now and then.
> > Sounds about right.
> >
> Possibly. But you notice Linux can read HPFS, Vfat, etc etc.
> NT can't read HPFS (in version 4), or ext2, or much else besides FAT and
> NTFS. This goes back to the theory, microsoft doesn't have to destory
> anyone, eventually you will use their product, because its all there is.
This is somewhat valid but then again can you say scanner I though you
could. :)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 14:58:23 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sheldon Rose <scrose@****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Lehlan Decker wrote:
> I was being sarcastic. Besides even the "just geeky" population, isn't
> large enough to pose a threat to the megas. Besides most of us who do have
> linux or something else running, also have Windows, MSoffice etc. So they aren't
loosing money over us. :)
This is the kicker We have 4 computers in a house that has three people
living in it. :) We have a couple of older machines a 486/33 16meg/350MB
drive, a 486/66 16meg/500MB drive, both are using win95 as the OS. A P90
24meg/2GB drive running linux and X-windows, a P166 32meg/8GB drive also
running win95 (Might stick NT workstation on this one) but that is still
a microsoft product. :) as you stated the good folks who make the mass
marketed OS's are not loosing money over the one machine that is running
main stream products.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 16:57:31 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Munchkinism at it's finest
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Michael Broadwater escreveu:
>
>
>
> Actually, the Greek alphabet is: Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta, Epsilon, Zeta,
> Eta, Theta, Iota....
>
Heh. Li'l memory lapse here... sorry.
Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 16:53:26 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: ASIST assistance?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Joshuwa Jenkins escreveu:
>
>
>
>
> I always figured MPCP was the OS in SR.
>
Actually I think MPCP is the deck's main processor. In the main book
it says it's "a bank of
optical chips". I can't remember if there's more stuff clarifying it.
As I have said before, ASIST would be the "base code" for all OSs
created, the actual OS
is more like to be the set of Persona programs (Bod, Sensor, Mask,
etc.), but all OSs would
be compatible because they're all based on ASIST.
Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 15:10:50 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sheldon Rose <scrose@****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question) [semi-OT]
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Lehlan Decker wrote:
> > You should try grabbing a copy of StarOffice (well, if you've got
> > a decently fast connection). It's got the full suite (word processor,
> > spreadsheet, database etc) all bundled into an easy-to-install
> > package. The best part is that it's free for Linux users. :-)
Not bad but it's not office97 I don't know for sure as I've heard they
plan to make StarOffice able to read and write into Office97 formated
files? Which is "The standard" weather anyone likes it or not. Many
people take it for granted that people can read MSWord formated
documents and other office generated data files...
> >
> StarOffice is nice. But how does it compare to Office 97?
> (I haven't messed with it in a long while, something for me to mess
> with in my free time :)).
> Vi ick! Give me emacs any day. :)
JOVE is better yet :)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 15:35:43 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Andrews <jmandrews@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: The talks on my Cyberware post.
In-Reply-To: <354B8822.3442@**.netcom.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sat, 2 May 1998, Matb wrote:
> sold on the market simultaneously. OK, epsilon or super-epsilon may be
> r&d only, but that still leaves five levels representing a *very* broad
> band of capability (from 0% to an 75% Essence decrease, iirc). That
> doesn't happen in the conventional market.
>
Or 0% to 60%, depending on which system you prefer for your campaign.
Either way, your point still stands. Can anyone say _Smithsonian_?
Jonathan Andrews
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 15:50:43 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Andrews <jmandrews@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: The talks on my Cyberware post.
In-Reply-To: <19980502181416.10867.qmail@*******.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sat, 2 May 1998, The Vagabond wrote:
> I'm not slighting what you are doing. If your PCs want to be
> munchkin, that's fine. If YOU want to be munchkin that's fine. But
> don't sit there and tell me a 1% essence reduction- at whatever cost-
> isn't munchkin. It's simple rules manipulation to cram as much cyber
> into a body as possible without feeling the effects. Munchkinism
> defined.
>
I don't know... I _could_ see the possibility of 99% essence reduction,
and here's why:
Tech just keeps getting better, and magic just keeps getting better, and
it seems natural that as the two continue, they would grow closer and
closer together. I'll let that stand as a given--take it or leave it, as
you prefer.
Now also take as a given that essence might not be the only drawback to
cyberware. Sure, you can attune your cyber to match your aura better--I
can see that as plausible. Heck, you might even be able to attune your
aura to match the cyber better, down the road. But what's that going to do
to your aura? And what's that going to do to you?
Either way, it seems like aura-warping to me. And that seems like heavy
astral implications. Forget being astrally active all the time; that's not
much of a problem to fix. Not at these levels. But imagine being really
attractive to something else entirely on the astral plane. Something akin
to Harlequinn's Horrors. Something that could toss you around like the
proverbial rag doll.
Cyberfiend-mages in forty, fifty years? Sure, why not? But make them pay,
chummer. If you want to play high-level games,make them truly high-level.
But as for me and my gamers, we will stick to the streets.
Thoughtfully,
Jonathan Andrews
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 16:51:55 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jeremiah Stevens <jeremiah@********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Eurowars (Long)
In-Reply-To: <199805012150.QAA25058@*****.interkan.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> ----------
> > From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
>
> > <snip: Whole nightwraith incident is virtual>
> >
> > >So who did it?
> >
> > The Bavarian Illuminati of course.
>
> Of which Lofwyr is a member <g> fnord.
And Adam Weishaupt was an IE. :)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 17:42:24 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Joshua Bell <joshbell@**********.COM>
Subject: On with the show...
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
OK, so most of you GMs out there didn't like my CYberware additions
(EPSION, S. EPSILON), I don't care.. it was my opinion and gaming style,
that is yours. Cool! different styles are what make RPGs fun. I just
wanted a few things noted.
*- I know that DELTA cyberware is different in Cybertechnology, because I
created my chart before cybertechnology came out, and didn't feel like
downgrading mine.
*- I don't know greek. so I named them as i remembered them (i.e. GAMMA
after DELTA). I didn't think it was important.
I am new to Newsgroups/Messages and so I just posted what I thought was
cool, and if it IRITAITED some of you..sorry, I guess I got a little OUT
THERE too fast. So hold on a sec......<loud sound in the background>
<ahhhh!...>
There I just killed my evil twin, Hi I am Josh, and I am here to stay!
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 14:42:48 +0800
Reply-To: Oliver McDonald <oliver@*********.com>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Oliver McDonald <oliver@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid? (was Re: OT: Babylon 5 news/SR TV)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Sat, 2 May 1998 12:39:50 -0400, Paul Gettle wrote:
>At 10:50 AM 5/2/98 -0500, Nexx wrote:
>>Well, one thing we can be sure of is that Dick Clark will still be
>doing
>>the same damn New Years Eve Special...
>
>Will his earpoints be showing by then?
Have you seen the M&M's add where he turns down being the host of the 2nd millenium,
saying he was the host of the 1st?
-----------------------------------------------------------
Oliver McDonald - oliver@*********.com
http://web2.spydernet.com
Space. The Final Frontier. Let's not close it down.
Brought to you via CyberSpace, the recursive frontier.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 17:36:31 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: The talks on my Cyberware post.
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> Re: The talks on my Cyberware post. (Oliver McDonald , Fri 0:37)
> Hear here. I really wonder why FASA bothered with the Cyber-Zombie... Perhaps so
> GM's could throw them at players, but as a GM, I would never allow a player to become
one. A munchkin type player would consider the 'drawbacks' as advantages.
Advantages:
<50% more cyber, if you want to l remain functional
Difficult to use any sort of magic against (including perception and
astral combat)
Disavantages:
10,000 nuyen/week "drug habit"
reduced damage "overflow" maximum and potential automatic death from D
wounds
Karma hazing
increased reaction test TN's
even more highly increased perception test TN's
Reduced karma awards
CDS
"neutral" (potential munchkin "fun")
Astral presence
social penalties
Personally, I'd expect any SANE munchkin to run in fear of those
reaction and perception TN penalties, and the karma award penalty. I
really don't think cybermancy grants a worth while edge,but maybe others
have found ways to deal with the drawbacks it has on your abilities
ingenral.
-Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 17:36:39 -0500
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From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Cyberware 2060/Jettware!
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>
> (Jessica Grota , Fri 14:22)
> Sure. Jett's cyber is:
>
> Cyberware:
> Retractable Hand Razors (Dikote) .2
> Muscle Replacement level 4 delta 2
> Cybereyes .2
> low-light enhancement
> Wired reflexes level 2 delta 1.5
> Headware Radio (comm set) delta .25
What is this item? Is it a "group" of items? A 2-way radio for .25 is
very nice...
> Smartlink 2 delta .25
>
> Pretty standard by street sam standards, I think. Although in
> starting-char runs, she gets passed up for being too powerful/being
> packed full of deltaware. Luckily, she fits right in with the more
> high-powered campaigns, or as power support on lower level stuff.
The power level isn't outrageos in any game that allows bioware,
although her being a a mage does make things different and, well, odd.
Deltaware just usually requires a level of "connections" that most
characters do not have and most games / players can't quite handle.
> And, I think to my credit, believe it or not I RPed Jett's adjustment
> to Muscle Rep and Wired 2, since she got those post char-gen.
Then, given those essence costs, you were robbed. Any delta clinic
surgeon, given Jetts remaining essence, would have rolled enough
succeses on the surgery test to reduce the essence cost a further 10%,
or more likely, 20% (of its delta cost- IE, net x.45 or x.4 essence
cost). Se P53, Cybertechnology. In fact, those x.5 essence reductions
can be achieved as Betaware (x.6-20%=x.48), and had you gone for
betaware, that would be a likely result. Even characters with E<1 often
get -10%, as other doctoring mods lower the surgical success test TN.
Betaware with good surgery results might irk fewer GM's than deltaware.
Of course,going for delta ware avoids even the RISK of the essences of
being higher than x.5+15%, or x.575, so may havebeen a goodchice for a
magically active charcter, even "subconciously".
But, WOW, staying in the clinic while recovering would COST. I assume
the tab was some how mitigated, since delta clinics are essentially
invitation only anyhow.
> It was
> really pretty funny: Jett stumbles around her apartment in hyper-drive,
> knocking over things, breaking the shower handle...as my GM dubbed her,
> Jett was temporarily a "Walking Urban Renewal spell". :)
>
Good story, but I'd assume all that "adjustment" took place AT the
clinic, under the guidance of a physical therapist, possibly with the
aid of simsense training PREVIOUS to implantation. "You can't justdrop
by aclinic, and bop out with a full dermal implant".... Simsense is
also used to "testdrive" cyberware- not always honestly, so be sure to
kick the, um, whatevers. Also, I'd say ANY shadow clinic would notice
you are magically active (They should have "magical healing", as well as
the option for doing "low impact" surgery, with the +2TN for going easy
on a mage.)
>
> --Jett
Sorry if I sound like a sourpuss- Jett sounds like a fine person to
invite over for an evening of mirth and mayhem. I'm just obssessed with
SR's medical rules, and thought maybe I could help out, although it
seems a little late.
I'd actually LOVE it if our GM could role play some of Mongoose's sim
tharapy (he's been in a gene vat for over 4 months, trying not to die of
Bruckner-Langer strain HMHVV and; he's an elf, and" partially"
infected). I figure he'll be pretty nuts when he gets out, maybe
totally lost in a some big fantasy sim series- a good reason to get a
reflex trigger for his wired 3, which need to be re-built from serious
any how... Obviously, SR medical rules leave a lot to be desired in
such cases.
-Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 18:16:54 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Phil Levis <pal@**.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Extreme Essence Reduction <LONG> (was: SUPER EPSILON Cyberware
discussion)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.PMDF.3.95.980502153656.7375F-100000@***.harding.edu>
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On Sat, 2 May 1998, Jonathan Andrews wrote:
> I don't know... I _could_ see the possibility of 99% essence reduction,
> and here's why:
<speaking up for the first time on the matter>
I certainly can, as well. However, it would seem to me that it wouldn't be
something that you could really just *buy*.
> Now also take as a given that essence might not be the only drawback to
> cyberware. Sure, you can attune your cyber to match your aura better--I
> can see that as plausible. Heck, you might even be able to attune your
> aura to match the cyber better, down the road. But what's that going to do
> to your aura? And what's that going to do to you?
(For those who don't like Earthdawn, please ignore the terminology used.)
As far as I understand things, the 'party line' for essence costs is that
the addition of cybernetic implants disrupts your pattern, such that it is
different from your aura, or what your 'more true' pattern is. This
dissonance is what can eventually cause death, when mana becomes incapable
of flowing into you.
Now, what if a piece of cyberware were especially designed to minimize
this dissonance? I'm not talking about technological, but magical means...
for example, constructing parts of the implant from objects that are
greatly synchronized with the aura of the recipient. This route is quite
different than that taken in Cybertechology, in which the 'sympathetic
objects' are destroyed; instead, if the implant could be better
synchronized with the aura by, for example, melting down a wedding ring
and incorporating the metal in the implant.
What I'm basically suggesting is a way of making the cybernetics itself a
'sympathetic object', or Pattern Item. This would most probably require
the incorporation of previous sympathetic objects, and a great deal of
magical work.
<breaking into Earthdawn-style magical theory here>
Indeed, the implications of these actions could be rather immense; not
only have you made the cybernetic implants congrous with the patient's
aura, and then possibly less magically invasive, but you have made parts
of the patient's body pattern items in themselves. The patient, or someone
else, could then create magical connections to these objects, perhaps
strengthening them further.
<Earthdawn theory off>
Of course, there would be a limit to this sort of operation; one can't
just keep on creating sympathetic objects. However, for one, or perhaps
two implants, I could see it being possible. This begins to bridge the gap
of the magical/technological barrier... a datajack that is, in essence (no
pun intended) a personal Focus?
The approach taken in Cybertechnology seems slightly different; by
destroying these objects, or people, that are synchonized with the aura of
the subject, then one can (hopefully) have a greater deal of freedom with
what sort of warping the aura can sustain.
I don't envision this ever being available to player characters, unless
you run a game of extremely high proportions; in my eyes, this sort of
effort might be done for a Prince of the Tir, or perhaps a highly
initiated member of a Tir na nOg path. A datajack, for example, not wired
reflexes.
Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 19:07:23 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Wordman <wordman@*******.COM>
Subject: Corps care about money, not people (was Re: [OT] Euro question)
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While making a point almost unrelated to the one I'm now making, James
Ojaste listed some possible strategies for corps dealing with an
encroaching freeware operating system being released, writing:
> Mega #1 ties things up
> legally while Mega #2 writes virii to combat the OS directly, while
> Mega #3 kills the author(s) to discourage further development.
Mega #4 hires the writers to build the product for them (or keep it
perpetually unreleased and eventually move the writers into something
else). Mega #4 would probably win, unless the writers were _extremely_
idealistic. Mega #4 could rationalize spending a pretty large sum of cash.
Say they do $200 million in OS sales a year. If they think the new OS might
steal, say, 10% of the market from them, they are more than justified in
spending $20 million to buy out the writers. Probably more, because
controlling new OS could damage their sales year after year. I can't think
of many programmers who wouln't sell out for $20 million, especially if
they could keep working on their pet project. (Also, chances are a
mega-corp does way more than $200 million in OS sales.)
Mega #3, who went for killing the authors, wouldn't last long. Talent and
training are very hard to find; you don't get ahead by wasting people who
demonstrate both. Save murder as a way of solving problems for people who
care about honor and vengence and so on, like the Mob. Corps care about
money, not people. Sometimes, its smart for a corp to kill, but usually
cash will solve the problem with a lot less fuss.
Wordman
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 16:17:33 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <dhinkley@****host.efn.org>
From: David Hinkley <dhinkley@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: Buzzed gangers
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980429174259.296fa018@****.fbiz.com>
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On 29 Apr 98 at 22:58, Erik Jameson wrote:
> At 07:04 PM 4/29/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
> > I've seen "Angel Dust" in recreational use, andit was not my
>
> I don't really want to know. I've been to raves (back before most
> people in the States had heard of them) and I've seen a number of
> drugs in use, but never PCP or 'dust...
>
> >impression the user was berzerk, or strong. Theywere rather, um
> >uninibited, in away that might lead to disregard forlegal codesand
> >genral social convention, be that theft, viloence,sex. I think the
>
> That's true most of the time. PCP and the like don't automatically
> turn the user into a crazed berzerker.
>
> >"crazed pipehead" this is a myth used to justify police brutality. In
>
> Gotta disagree here. Any sort of drug that has a hallucinatory
> affect has the capacity for a "bad trip." In other words, something
> just clicks wrong and the user, for lack of a better phrase, freaks
> out. This happens with everything from pot to nasties like PCP.
> And the more powerful the drug, the nastier that "bad trip" will be.
And the less "pure" it is the more likely a bad trip. PCP has another
negitive side. Heavy users (and former usesrs) can have flashbacks
and from what I understand the flashbacks are useally bad trips.
My second hand story came frone a friend who was a ER tech. A PCP
user wentoff in a hall near the ER. The security guard (county
sheriff's reserve) confronted him. The PCP guy attacked him . My
friend who was behind the guy, saw the guard was losing hit the guy
with a steel IV pole. The guy turned to attack. The guard hit him
with a night stick. The guy turned on the guard. My friend hit him
again. Thr guy turned on my friend. This hit and turn hit and turn
was repeated until enough reinforcements arrived to take the guy
down. In that area the typical responce was five officers (one
each for the head, both arms and both legs) who tackle him take him
down and cuff him with at least two sets of cuffs. Seems that
they had had single sets of cuffs broken along with the subjects
wrists. All in all it is bad stuff.
David Hinkley
dhinkley@***.org
====================================================
Those who are too intelligent to engage in politics
are punished by being governed by those who are not
--Plato
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 19:15:36 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Andrews <jmandrews@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Corps care about money,
not people (was Re: [OT] Euro question)
In-Reply-To: <l03110700b1714f918ad6@[100.100.100.10]>
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On Sat, 2 May 1998, Wordman wrote:
> Mega #4 hires the writers to build the product for them (or keep it
> perpetually unreleased and eventually move the writers into something
> else). Mega #4 would probably win, unless the writers were _extremely_
[snip]
> controlling new OS could damage their sales year after year. I can't think
> of many programmers who wouln't sell out for $20 million, especially if
> they could keep working on their pet project. (Also, chances are a
> mega-corp does way more than $200 million in OS sales.)
>
And for the programmer with an esteemed sense of morals, there are always
other means available to the corp... Decidedly unfriendly variations on
"If you will not turn to the Dark Side, then maybe she will..."
Jonathan Andrews
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 11:08:01 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Geoff Skellams <geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: OT: Babylon 5 news/SR TV
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On Shadowrun Discussion, Ojaste,James [NCR][SMTP:James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA]
wrote:
> What kind of trid shows are popular in SR? The Odd Coven is the only
> one I can really recall (apart from Combat Biking, Urban Brawl and
> Desert Wars, but those are really sports).
>
There is a mention of a Trid show called "Cyberpirates of the
Carribean", in surprisingly enough, "Cyberpirates".
cheers
Geoff
--
Geoff Skellams R&D - Tower Software
Email Address: geoff.skellams@*********.com.au
Homepage: http://www.towersoft.com.au/staff/geoff/
ICQ Number: 2815165
"That rates about a 9.5 on my weird-shit-o-meter"
- Will Smith in "Men in Black"
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 20:23:03 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wyrmy The powerful <elfman@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: OT: Babylon 5 news/SR TV
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<Snip stuff>
<snip geoffs stuff>
> > Desert Wars, but those are really sports).
I thought Desert wars was a corporate war fought in a desert.Can someone
enlighten me about that show?
(also; I have my old sig back)
--
If you are a dreamer come in,
If you are a dreeamer, a wisher,
A liar, a magic jelly bean buyer,
Come In!
-What should be the motto of all internet users.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 20:55:30 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: The talks on my Cyberware post.
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> Re: The talks on my Cyberware post. (Joshua Bell , Fri 14:37)
>
> >> EPSILON (-90% essence, x100 cost, Avail. +20)
> >> SUPER EPSILON (-99% essence, x200 cost, Avail. +35)
>
> Munchkinism.. I think not, you mearly miss my point.
Actually, I find it more Implausible than unbalancing. Both are pretty
plainly not cost-effective, and thus not worth developing. [No market-
with that availibilty, 1 in 10,000 interested people with ettiqutte 5
can find it, and maybe one in 10,000 has the cash. Thats 1 in
100,000,000, or maybe 50 in the world. Even calling it 100, where is
the Return on Investment?]
>
> I was mearly taking the "Essence" term of shadowrun to its logical
> conclusion. I DON'T want runners with every piece of cyberware in the
> books instaled in them. What I was going towards is the perfect synergy of
> man and machine. Think about it. Essence cost IMHO is not just a
> "limitation" for players so they do not get to powerful, but an indication
> of "Man vs. Machine." So it is quite logical that as time passes, we as a
> culture (in shadowrun), will be able to implant people with cyberware
> without making them more "machine."
>
If that were the root cause, removing cyberware (and putting back
approriate cloned organs if needed) would allow essence restoration, as
the person would be then less "machine". However, just removing cyber,
say, demal plating 3, does not in fact restore essence. Essence cost is
not just a limitation, you are right (well, it is, but so is skill
level,attributtes, cash...). Cyber costs essence because it does
something for you thatchangeshow you live and function. That will
always be a factor in any "quality" of cyber. In additon, it is very
possible that BEFORE the awakening, cyberware did NOT cost essence.
Also, perhaps certain items and did not exist becuase they could not
function WITHOUT costing essence. "Magic and tech don't mix"- but
cyberware DOES affect magic (use of healing, target attributtes, loss of
magic) in some ways. Essence cost is not a purely mundane effect, and
probaly has some mystic "absolute minimum".
The "Essence terms logical conclusion" is probaly not
"logical" at all.
> Think about the artificial limbs out now ( in the real world) for people
without arms and legs, in the beginning they were little more than steal hooks, and now we
have them computer controled, and very real looking, yet
> of course, not like the real thing.
A) No current limb prosthesis, afaik (from regularly reading the
National Prosthsis Foundation's magazine), is actually implated.
B) Cyberpirates has implanted hooks and pegleggs, and they in fact cost
LESS essence than fully capable cyberhands and such, which are more
"human normal".
C) Synthflesh covered limbs do not cost less essence.
Apparently, Similarity to "human norm" is not the determining factor in
how much essence an item costs. Fuction, I expect,
Better wares, being made to function more like living materials, cost
lesse essence, but still have a deviation from human fuction. For
example, evenamongnon-custom wares, dermal platingandthe dermal sheath
are fairly similar infunction. The dermal sheath does its job more like
skin, but is still quite diffrent from anybody's skin in function, no
matter how well made and carefully implanted.
> So if you or I have players that want every piece of cyberware in the
> books, we can stop it by as I said destroying the cyberware in some way, or
> simply rule that they can not find it (Due to its EXCESSIVE availability).
>
Well, once you have delta + grade titanium bone lacing implanted, it
is pretty hard to justify its removal or destruction by most non-godlike
methods.
And why create something that is impossible to find- it effectively
does not exist, in that case.
> I mean REALLY guys, I did read CyberTechnology, and IMHO I would much
> rather have a runner with GAMMA or EPSILON implants than have to deal with
> a Cyber Zombie PC.
>
> Again I welcome you opinions, as this message is mine...
MMM- I'll take the zombie, actually. Even gamma implants allow an
"base" 30 points of cyber to be used, which even a solid delatware
zombie would be hard pressed to fit in without dying. The zombie is
also much more restricted, having MANY drawbacks. He's not actually to
hard to deal with- a failed reaction test, a missed drug pickup, a
single deadly wound, could mean the end. A mage can get some rather
imbalancing stuff for 1 point of Gamma, given the cash, which seems to
basically be its only "sensable" use.
Seeing as neither is really an "open" option for PC's, and both are
fairly non-cost effective for NPC's, I'd call it a moot point.
The real question for me is "why do you need EITHER?" We've run in a
moderately high powered campaign, and betaware has always been both
plenty effective and prohibitivey expensive. Lucky and desprate
characters get less expensive bits of cyber at up to x.48 cost by
getting beta ware and / or a really good surgeon, in one case a PC who
burned team karma contributed by the patient in order to buy succeses.
Good surgeons are cheaper than good wares...
I don't think we' have ever felt "unchallenged" because our opponents
are not suffciently augmented.
-Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 22:27:09 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wordman <wordman@*******.COM>
Subject: Deckers
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Quite some time ago (like in '91), I posted a request for descriptions of
deckers. The idea was to compile a list of deckers that GMs could use to
populate the Matrix in their games. No stats, just visual discriptions.
Since most of the people who contributed to the list then are no longer
actively posting, I thought I'd try it again. Call it Deckers: the New
Batch, I guess.
Send me your decker descriptions, and I'll edit them all into a big
document and send it somewhere, probably to TSS. Please format your mail
into the following sections:
Matrix Appearance: Describe how decker looks in Matrix.
Style: Describe decking and personal style.
Attitude: Describe the face/personality decker shows to public. How
others see decker.
View: He decker sees the Matrix (i.e. Reality Filter).
BTW, you can see the results of the earlier batch in the Personalities
section of the Neo-Anarchists' Guide to Everything Else
(http://www.flashpt.com/~lward/personal/nagee.html). Please don't submit
any decker which was in the original.
Wordman
wordman@*******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 22:54:06 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paul Gettle <pgettle@********.NET>
Subject: What's on the Trid?
In-Reply-To: <354BC6F7.4134@*****.net>
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
At 08:23 PM 5/2/98 -0500, Wyrmy wrote:
>I thought Desert wars was a corporate war fought in a desert.Can
someone
>enlighten me about that show?
Imagine CNN's coverage of the Gulf War, crossed with the relative hype
of both the NCAA and NBA Playoffs.
Actually, just how old were you, Wyrmy, during the Gulf War?
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-- Paul Gettle (pgettle@********.net)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:11455339 (RSA 1024, created 97/08/08)
625A FFF0 76DC A077 D21C 556B BB58 00AA
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 21:24:00 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: The talks on my Cyberware post.
In-Reply-To: <354BCE92.62DB@**********.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 20:55 02/05/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> Munchkinism.. I think not, you mearly miss my point.
>
>Actually, I find it more Implausible than unbalancing. Both are pretty
>plainly not cost-effective, and thus not worth developing. [No market-
>with that availibilty, 1 in 10,000 interested people with ettiqutte 5
>can find it, and maybe one in 10,000 has the cash. Thats 1 in
>100,000,000, or maybe 50 in the world. Even calling it 100, where is
>the Return on Investment?]
You're looking for a World reason for something that's 100% Munchkin. Good
luck! ;)
-Adam
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 21:26:03 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
In-Reply-To: <199805030252.WAA27431@*******.scescape.net>
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At 22:54 02/05/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Imagine CNN's coverage of the Gulf War, crossed with the relative hype
>of both the NCAA and NBA Playoffs.
Hype I could do without. They have the gall to pre-empt wrestling for
basketball and baseball.
>Actually, just how old were you, Wyrmy, during the Gulf War?
I was 11, I think. So that would put Wyrmy at 7 or 8? Old enough to enjoy
the explosions :)
-Adam
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 21:39:55 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Deckers
In-Reply-To: <l03110700b1717c380a2f@[100.100.100.10]>
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At 22:27 02/05/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Send me your decker descriptions, and I'll edit them all into a big
>document and send it somewhere, probably to TSS. Please format your mail
>into the following sections:
Hey, good idea, and thanks :)
The decker descriptions was one of my favourite parts of NAGEE, and it
would go well in TSS, IMO..
BTW, Issue #8 is shaping up well, but if somebody would have some short to
medium length corporate encounters/runs/modules, they would fit really well
with this issue. If any of you think you could provide these, let me know.
Thanks,
-Adam
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 23:53:29 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paul Gettle <pgettle@********.NET>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980502212603.008232c0@****.lis.ab.ca>
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At 09:26 PM 5/2/98 -0600, Adam wrote:
>Hype I could do without. They have the gall to pre-empt wrestling
for
>basketball and baseball.
I would imagine that Desert Wars would have at least a bit of the
colorful personalities you see in any pro-wrestling match. (Although
I'd imagine those personalities would be more for the benifit of the
trid watching audience, with the real warring done by more down to
earth platoons of both coporate troops and hired mercs.)
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--
-- Paul Gettle (pgettle@********.net)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:11455339 (RSA 1024, created 97/08/08)
625A FFF0 76DC A077 D21C 556B BB58 00AA
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Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 23:59:38 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: ASIST assistance?
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In a message dated 5/2/98 1:08:15 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK writes:
> Personally, my favourite books in that series were...
> 101 things to do with a dead cat....
> 101 more things to do with a dead cat...
> and
> Cats revenge: 101 things to do with a dead human.
> :)
> (And yes, they really do exist)
>
Oh yeah, I own the last one actually...that is great....the "Pin Cushion" is
perfect IMO...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 00:10:16 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberware 2060/Jettware!
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In a message dated 5/2/98 5:13:50 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
evamarie@**********.net writes:
> I'd actually LOVE it if our GM could role play some of Mongoose's
sim
> tharapy (he's been in a gene vat for over 4 months, trying not to die of
> Bruckner-Langer strain HMHVV and; he's an elf, and" partially"
> infected). I figure he'll be pretty nuts when he gets out, maybe
> totally lost in a some big fantasy sim series- a good reason to get a
> reflex trigger for his wired 3, which need to be re-built from serious
> any how... Obviously, SR medical rules leave a lot to be desired in
> such cases.
>
YOu raise a really good point actually here Mongoose. We've had character's
who go into the Vat/under the laser-knife more than once. Not all that long
ago, two of the parties main characters both went in at the same time. After
a short while (first third of the work), they were both able to function
inside of a "Matrix" environment. Kind of fun when the samurai types suddenly
got to be the decker types.
(yes, it was a twisting of rules, but it had it's moments)
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 00:19:08 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Extreme Essence Reduction <LONG> (was: SUPER EPSILON Cyberware
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In a message dated 5/2/98 5:17:46 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
pal@**.BROWN.EDU writes:
> On Sat, 2 May 1998, Jonathan Andrews wrote:
> > I don't know... I _could_ see the possibility of 99% essence reduction,
> > and here's why:
> <speaking up for the first time on the matter>
> I certainly can, as well. However, it would seem to me that it wouldn't be
> something that you could really just *buy*.
>
> > Now also take as a given that essence might not be the only drawback to
> > cyberware. Sure, you can attune your cyber to match your aura better--I
> > can see that as plausible. Heck, you might even be able to attune your
> > aura to match the cyber better, down the road. But what's that going to
do
> > to your aura? And what's that going to do to you?
>
> (For those who don't like Earthdawn, please ignore the terminology used.)
>
> As far as I understand things, the 'party line' for essence costs is that
> the addition of cybernetic implants disrupts your pattern, such that it is
> different from your aura, or what your 'more true' pattern is. This
> dissonance is what can eventually cause death, when mana becomes incapable
> of flowing into you.
This doesn't entirely float with me, but that's okay. The basic idea makes
sense.
> Now, what if a piece of cyberware were especially designed to minimize
> this dissonance? I'm not talking about technological, but magical means...
> for example, constructing parts of the implant from objects that are
> greatly synchronized with the aura of the recipient. This route is quite
> different than that taken in Cybertechology, in which the 'sympathetic
> objects' are destroyed; instead, if the implant could be better
> synchronized with the aura by, for example, melting down a wedding ring
> and incorporating the metal in the implant.
Wow, hey Mike, this stuff sounds familiar...
> What I'm basically suggesting is a way of making the cybernetics itself a
> 'sympathetic object', or Pattern Item. This would most probably require
> the incorporation of previous sympathetic objects, and a great deal of
> magical work.
Yep, very familiar...
> <breaking into Earthdawn-style magical theory here>
>
> Indeed, the implications of these actions could be rather immense; not
> only have you made the cybernetic implants congrous with the patient's
> aura, and then possibly less magically invasive, but you have made parts
> of the patient's body pattern items in themselves. The patient, or someone
> else, could then create magical connections to these objects, perhaps
> strengthening them further.
>
> <Earthdawn theory off>
This has some relavance to ED I'll grant you, but it also has a MASSIVE amount
of relavance to SR as well. It is just not written up with the same
terminology.
> Of course, there would be a limit to this sort of operation; one can't
> just keep on creating sympathetic objects. However, for one, or perhaps
> two implants, I could see it being possible. This begins to bridge the gap
> of the magical/technological barrier... a datajack that is, in essence (no
> pun intended) a personal Focus?
We have had rules for that in the past. If a magician made a "Personal Focus
3" for example, and it was a Beta Grade Datajack 4 (.25 essence loss base), it
would gain the individual receiving the implant an additional 3% reduction in
essence loss on top of the Beta Grade reduction. So, IIRC, that would make
the DJ-4 (BG) come out to 0.145 (if you kept to the nearest thousandth of
course). It wasn't much, and it made a requirement of at least 3 point of
karma on behalf of the "to-be-implanted-individual".
> The approach taken in Cybertechnology seems slightly different; by
> destroying these objects, or people, that are synchonized with the aura of
> the subject, then one can (hopefully) have a greater deal of freedom with
> what sort of warping the aura can sustain.
>
> I don't envision this ever being available to player characters, unless
> you run a game of extremely high proportions; in my eyes, this sort of
> effort might be done for a Prince of the Tir, or perhaps a highly
> initiated member of a Tir na nOg path. A datajack, for example, not wired
> reflexes.
I agree with the level of whom it would be done for, but not the examples,
especially given certain penchants for their outlooks on "Essence Loss"
(excluding the Path of Warrior, which is strange in many ways).
Now then, as for why I think this stuff sounded familiar...I sent the
suggested directions to one person who asked, now I'll give a hint to everyone
else...
http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/intro.htm
Magic link
Enchanting link
Then "Aura Symmetry" link...
Have fun...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 00:25:05 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: OT: Babylon 5 news/SR TV
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In a message dated 5/2/98 8:18:45 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
elfman@*****.NET writes:
> > > Desert Wars, but those are really sports).
> I thought Desert wars was a corporate war fought in a desert.Can someone
> enlighten me about that show?
> (also; I have my old sig back)
>
Desert wars are a kind of "Military Staging Show" IMO. Corporations and
Governments get to field test all their toys in given areas of the world.
They normally would use "non-lethal" action options, and points are tallied by
massive systems (FDDM and IVIS and BTAC would help here I'm sure). There are
stories I've read in some of the books (most of the older sourcebooks mainly)
where Desert Wars groups sometimes get a bit carried away and do something
"not quite by the book"...
And then the word "War" takes over from there :)
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 23:27:25 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses Publishing
Subject: Re: On with the show...
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Joshua Bell wrote:
> There I just killed my evil twin, Hi I am Josh, and I am here to stay!
Hey, don't worry about it, Josh -- for a first-time post, it wasn't that
bad. Take the fact that people pointed out potential flaws as a good
thing (they paid attention long enough to understand it! :) And, of
course, take the comments to heart or not -- it's your campaign.
Just don't ever, ever mention grounding through a
quickeni--AAAaaaauuuuurrgh!
(sound of large wet fish)
- Matt
------------------------------------
Ask me tonight why love is strange
For I am drunk and full of reasons....
SRCard list.member.newbie
Teen Poets FAQ: http://pw1.netcom.com/~mbreton/poetry/poetfaq.htm
SRTCG Website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/2189/ccgtop.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 00:53:08 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
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In a message dated 5/2/98 10:24:52 PM US Eastern Standard Time, fro@***.AB.CA
writes:
> >Imagine CNN's coverage of the Gulf War, crossed with the relative hype
> >of both the NCAA and NBA Playoffs.
>
> Hype I could do without. They have the gall to pre-empt wrestling for
> basketball and baseball.
Oh the HORROR of it!!! :P
> >Actually, just how old were you, Wyrmy, during the Gulf War?
> I was 11, I think. So that would put Wyrmy at 7 or 8? Old enough to enjoy
> the explosions :)
> -Adam
OMG...I think I'm gonna go work on my web pages now....11??? The
admin/fearless leader was only 11????
Sweet God Above ... I was drunk legally with my friends that came back the
night they returned and we had the huge parade for them here in Lafayette...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 00:59:17 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jessica Grota <grota@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberware 2060/Jettware!
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Jett's cyberware is <snip>
> > Headware Radio (comm set) delta .25
>
> What is this item? Is it a "group" of items? A 2-way radio for .25 is
> very nice...
It's the CyberComm link unit out of I THINK Cybertechnology...the one
that boils down to being roughly electronic telepathy?
>
> Then, given those essence costs, you were robbed. Any delta clinic
> surgeon, given Jetts remaining essence, would have rolled enough
> succeses on the surgery test to reduce the essence cost a further 10%,
> or more likely, 20% (of its delta cost- IE, net x.45 or x.4 essence
> cost). Se P53, Cybertechnology. In fact, those x.5 essence reductions
> can be achieved as Betaware (x.6-20%=x.48), and had you gone for
> betaware, that would be a likely result. Even characters with E<1 often
> get -10%, as other doctoring mods lower the surgical success test TN.
> Betaware with good surgery results might irk fewer GM's than deltaware.
> Of course,going for delta ware avoids even the RISK of the essences of
> being higher than x.5+15%, or x.575, so may havebeen a goodchice for a
> magically active charcter, even "subconciously".
> But, WOW, staying in the clinic while recovering would COST. I assume
> the tab was some how mitigated, since delta clinics are essentially
> invitation only anyhow.
Jett didn't have to stick around long: there was a mage on standby to
heal her after surgery. :) More on that below. I didn't mess too much
with the "additional reduction" rules, mostly because I didn't
understand them at the time. I still don't have any of the real good
cyber books, ie cybertechnology or Shadowtech. Ah, well. Maybe for
Christmas...
> > It was
> > really pretty funny: Jett stumbles around her apartment in hyper-drive,
> > knocking over things, breaking the shower handle...as my GM dubbed her,
> > Jett was temporarily a "Walking Urban Renewal spell". :)
> >
>
> Good story, but I'd assume all that "adjustment" took place AT the
> clinic, under the guidance of a physical therapist, possibly with the
> aid of simsense training PREVIOUS to implantation. "You can't justdrop
> by aclinic, and bop out with a full dermal implant".... Simsense is
> also used to "testdrive" cyberware- not always honestly, so be sure to
> kick the, um, whatevers. Also, I'd say ANY shadow clinic would notice
> you are magically active (They should have "magical healing", as well as
> the option for doing "low impact" surgery, with the +2TN for going easy
> on a mage.)
Jett was in fact healed right after surgery by another PC and went home
soon after. Her magical powers, FWIW, Awakened well after she got all
her cyber, which I neglected to mention. I just did the "adjustment"
routine for kicks, really, since my GM needed Jett back in action ASAP.
:) After all, if you can RP it, it isn't munchie! ;)
> Sorry if I sound like a sourpuss- Jett sounds like a fine person to
> invite over for an evening of mirth and mayhem.
Thanks!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 01:02:25 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jessica Grota <grota@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: GridSec Kicks Dogs! News at 11!
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Craig J Wilhelm Jr wrote:
>
> On 07:27 PM 5/1/98 , Erik Jameson wrote:
> >But if I do see someone kicking a dog for real, I'm kicking someone's ass
> >for real. And *that's* the only part of this message that isn't meant as a
> >joke.
>
> You'd condone beating on a human and not a mutt? Hmm... Why don't we
> just make nicey-face and just save our strenuous physical activities for
> the bedroom and the beating for the bathroom...
A dog doesn't understand why you hit it...but a person you're pounding
on knows why you're in his face. :)
--Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 01:05:29 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jerry Hill <agh60070@*******.CC.UCF.EDU>
Subject: Re: OT: Babylon 5 news/SR TV
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> What kind of trid shows are popular in SR? The Odd Coven is the only
> one I can really recall (apart from Combat Biking, Urban Brawl and
> Desert Wars, but those are really sports).
Well, there's always Neil the Orc Barbarian, popular star of simsense and
BTL. I know I saw a listing of shows or perhaps channels in a cyberpunk
universe someplace... either Shadowbeat or the CP2020 Media sourcebook....
if anyone has the book and has any clue what I'm talking about, maybe they
could drudge those things up.. I no longer own copies of either book.
Any chance someone's interested enough in the topic to write an article for
TSS? I'd like to read one, but I don't have time to write one at the
moment...
Jerry Hill
--------------------------------------------
'Rome wasn't built in a day
but it didn't take long to go up in flames'
- Electric Hellfire Club
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 23:31:16 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: OT: Babylon 5 news/SR TV
In-Reply-To: <003101bd7651$188156c0$47f2f4cd@****>
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At 01:05 03/05/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Well, there's always Neil the Orc Barbarian, popular star of simsense and
>BTL. I know I saw a listing of shows or perhaps channels in a cyberpunk
>universe someplace... either Shadowbeat or the CP2020 Media sourcebook....
>if anyone has the book and has any clue what I'm talking about, maybe they
>could drudge those things up.. I no longer own copies of either book.
I know for sure there's a TV guide in Shadowbeat. Not sure about the
CP2020 Media sourcebook, since I've never seen it..
>Any chance someone's interested enough in the topic to write an article for
>TSS? I'd like to read one, but I don't have time to write one at the
>moment...
At one time I had written up something like this myself, but it fell into
the "Horribly corny" pile, and I'm not even sure if I still have the file
anymore. It was a simsense company profile with an interview, chip
descriptions, etc. I might have it lying around still, but it's not near
publishable..
-Adam
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 00:36:22 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <neon@******.BACKBONE.OLEMISS.EDU>
Subject: Re: The talks on my Cyberware post.
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 01:54 PM 5/2/98 -0700, Matb wrote:
>Michael Broadwater wrote:
>
>> >>> Incidentally, to compare the various levels to a real-world
situation --
>> >>> when's the last time you saw seven generations of the same product
at
>> >>> market together? This is sort of like having 286s side-by-side
with
>> >>> Pentium II's -- it doesn't happen.
>
>> >>Really? Then what is a "Ham Fest?"
>
>> >A gathering of people to collect items no longer in the market.
>
>> It's called "rhetoric". You may encounter it again.
>
>The initial response missed the point. The rejoinder pointed out that a
>ham fest isn't a retail market situation. You apparently didn't pick up
>on that, either.
>
>You *don't* see seven generations of the same product at a retail market
>at the same time.
I would agree with you except that you changed your definition in the middle
of the discussion. "Market" and "retail market" are different things.
A
ham fest is a market, though it may not be a chain of stores. If you keep
things more consistent, you may avoid another faux pas in the future.
You may not find 7+ generations of cyber equiptment together at your local
Sr mall equivalent store, but that does not mean you won't find it together
when sold on the street. Those suppliers will carry what people will
purchase,
and for the people who will buy from them, this could be anything.
Mike Broadwater
Member of the Blackhand and Dwarven Illuminati
http://www.olemiss.edu/~neon/
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 00:48:25 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: On with the show...
On Sat, 2 May 1998 17:42:24 -0400 Joshua Bell <joshbell@**********.COM>
writes:
> OK, so most of you GMs out there didn't like my CYberware
additions
>(EPSION, S. EPSILON), I don't care.. it was my opinion and gaming style,
>that is yours. Cool! different styles are what make RPGs fun. I just
>wanted a few things noted.
You'll find that there are *many* different styles of GM's and players on
the list. And if the ultra-high-grade cyberstuff doesn't fit in most of
their campaigns, well, you're just weird(j/k) :):) Not that the rest of
us aren't weird:) If it fits in your game, fine. If it fits without being
unbalancing or causing terrible amounts of strife and heartburn for those
involved, terrific! And if it doesn't fit in mine, that's fine, too.
Certainly, I'm the *last* person who should lecture on the evils of
power-gaming:) Which doesn't mean I don't:) But I probably shouldn't. But
I digress...
>*- I know that DELTA cyberware is different in Cybertechnology, because
I
>created my chart before cybertechnology came out, and didn't feel like
>downgrading mine.
Your prerogative, but you maybe should have noted this in the original
list, eh?
>*- I don't know greek. so I named them as i remembered them (i.e. GAMMA
>after DELTA). I didn't think it was important.
Neither did Tom Dowd. Which is why we have Deltaware instead of
Gamma-grade cyber:)
>I am new to Newsgroups/Messages and so I just posted what I thought was
>cool, and if it IRITAITED some of you..sorry, I guess I got a little OUT
>THERE too fast. So hold on a sec......<loud sound in the background>
>
><ahhhh!...>
>
>There I just killed my evil twin, Hi I am Josh, and I am here to stay!
Nice try, but I don't believe it:P I would suggest moderating the 'way
out' stuff - keep in mind that lots of folks run low to mid power
campaigns around here and that some of the stuff that you toss out may
well seem excessive to the high-power folks as well (Hi, K! :) But don't
run off just yet. It's not like we haven't all had the occasional idea
that seemed whacked to the rest of the world (I've had several which I've
quite thankfully repressed and cannot presently bring to mind:). And it
could have been worse. You *could* have posted this to rgfc and started a
flamewar:)
Well, back to lurking for me...
--
John Pederson "She thinks I'm average-looking."
aka Canthros, shapeshifter-mage --MST3K
lobo1@****.com canthros1@***.com john.e.pederson@***********.edu
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/4864 ICQ UIN 3190186
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=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 01:06:03 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses Publishing
Subject: Re: The talks on my Cyberware post.
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Michael Broadwater wrote:
> >You *don't* see seven generations of the same product at a retail market
> >at the same time.
> I would agree with you except that you changed your definition in the middle
> of the discussion. "Market" and "retail market" are different
things. A
> ham fest is a market, though it may not be a chain of stores. If you keep
> things more consistent, you may avoid another faux pas in the future.
The original post suggested all seven varieties would be out and able to
be purchased (through apparently normal channels); that may have been an
oversight on the author's part. Given the implied
on-a-retail-shelf-near-you presence of the cyberware, I assumed the same
connotation would carry over. My apologies if you never happened to
read the original post.
That being said, *you* might see 286s still on the market; average Joe
consumer doesn't go looking for them, however.
> You may not find 7+ generations of cyber equiptment together at your local
> Sr mall equivalent store, but that does not mean you won't find it together
> when sold on the street. Those suppliers will carry what people will
> purchase, and for the people who will buy from them, this could be anything.
You'd find that after-market vendors like those also won't follow a nice
strict pattern of cost, availability, and function that the original
post suggested. Once you get to the level of ham fest, too many other
variables come into play, and you lose the nice neat progression the
original author laid out.
Anything can be found on the street, true; that doesn't mean I'd use -
to make an extreme analogy - 78 rpm records as the baseline for
determining what the cost of a sim chip should be.
Incidentally - and I hope this doesn't come across as rude or anything
(but it's 2am and I'm beat) - but I've made and belabored my point.
I'll leave it to the original post's author to accept or refute (or let
lie).
- Matt
------------------------------------
Ask me tonight why love is strange
For I am drunk and full of reasons....
SRCard list.member.newbie
Teen Poets FAQ: http://pw1.netcom.com/~mbreton/poetry/poetfaq.htm
SRTCG Website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/2189/ccgtop.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 00:36:19 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lander Williams <lander@****.WAVE.CA>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
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>
>>Imagine CNN's coverage of the Gulf War, crossed with the relative hype
>>of both the NCAA and NBA Playoffs.
>
>Hype I could do without. They have the gall to pre-empt wrestling for
>basketball and baseball.
i have that beef to, expect lately its been hockey and basketball.. grr!
hockey i can deal with (i practically worship it) but i cant stand
basketball.. give me undertaker any day <g>
>>Actually, just how old were you, Wyrmy, during the Gulf War?
>
>I was 11, I think. So that would put Wyrmy at 7 or 8? Old enough to enjoy
>the explosions :)
when was the gulf war again? '92? i was just wrapping up Highschool :)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 05:12:11 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Extreme Essence Reduction
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>
> Extreme Essence Reduction (was: SUPER EPSILON Cyberware discussion)
<Snip long "magic essenc reduction" reasoning>
> I don't envision this ever being available to player characters, unless
> you run a game of extremely high proportions; in my eyes, this sort of
> effort might be done for a Prince of the Tir, or perhaps a highly
> initiated member of a Tir na nOg path. A datajack, for example, not wired
> reflexes.
>
> Phil
Why would they bother? If all he needs is a data jack, deltaware is
probaly relaible enough to fuction as long as even that elf will live,
and ANY essence loss will cause loss of a magic point. It would only be
worht the trouble if you were crammingin a buch of cyber, and thus
worried about keeping the essence cost total under 1, (or .85,for a
safety margin) so as not to cause loss of MULTIPLE magic points. I know
they see "essence preservation" as a religeous goal, but they are not
SILLY.
-Mongoose
P.S. Iv'e probaly read the same ED book(s) as Phil, and "depaterning"
blood magic was indeed very interesting. My impression was, making the
blood charms a pattern item would not help reduce the damage or risk one
bit. (Unless the patern magic was used to boost your will roll, of
course, but other pattern magic could do that as easily)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 05:15:15 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: The talks on my Cyberware post. (munchkin humour)
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> Re: The talks on my Cyberware post. (Adam J , Sat 22:24)
>
> At 20:55 02/05/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >> Munchkinism.. I think not, you mearly miss my point.
> >
> >Actually, I find it more Implausible than unbalancing. Both are pretty
> >plainly not cost-effective, and thus not worth developing. [No market-
> >with that availibilty, 1 in 10,000 interested people with ettiqutte 5
> >can find it, and maybe one in 10,000 has the cash. Thats 1 in
> >100,000,000, or maybe 50 in the world. Even calling it 100, where is
> >the Return on Investment?]
>
> You're looking for a World reason for something that's 100% Munchkin. Good
> luck! ;)
>
> -Adam
Um, by "not cost effective", I was making a "subtle hint"
that, even
from a PRO-MUNCHKIN viewpoint, it was kinda lame. :) But then, I'm a
min-maxer, which protects me from other strains of the "GMGMV"*.
I sold off my last cask of sarcasm enhanced napalm last week, and
haven't laid in new suplies. Can I borrow a gallon or twenty, Adam?
-Mongoose
*GMGMV- Game Master - Gamer Munchkin Virus.
Being a minmaxer is like being a ghoul- you annoy other gamers, and eat
old game books, but don't have to suck the fun out of the game to live.
I'd say the "Munchkin whiner" is like the banshee, as its wailing
instills fear and causes others to flee, and leave the rest to others to
amuse ME with....
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 05:15:22 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Buzzed gangers
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> Re: Buzzed gangers (David Hinkley , Sat 11:17)
>
> On 29 Apr 98 at 22:58, Erik Jameson wrote:
>
> > At 07:04 PM 4/29/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >
> > > I've seen "Angel Dust" in recreational use, andit was not my
> >
> > I don't really want to know. I've been to raves (back before most
> > people in the States had heard of them) and I've seen a number of
> > drugs in use, but never PCP or 'dust...
> >
I went to "raves" in '89-'90 in LosAngeles, and happened to know for a
fact that some "X" being sold was actually PCP. I personally consummed
six packs of malt liquor, and folks tried to BUY "x" from me. Very
amuzing.
> > Gotta disagree here. Any sort of drug that has a hallucinatory
> > affect has the capacity for a "bad trip." In other words, something
> > just clicks wrong and the user, for lack of a better phrase, freaks
> > out. This happens with everything from pot to nasties like PCP.
> > And the more powerful the drug, the nastier that "bad trip" will be.
>
EH. "Bad trips" always seem to happen to unstable people, but I'm not
fond enough of drug culture and users to have any knowledge there one
way or another.
> <snip ER story> Seems that
> they had had single sets of cuffs broken along with the subjects
> wrists. All in all it is bad stuff.
>
Which bears out my point- the drug did not make the guy stronger, or
actully effective in "combat"- they just made him more willing to fight
and less concerned about getting hurt.
Your run of the mill NON DRUGGED psycotic can exhibit identical
behavior.
-Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 03:28:58 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Alternate SR (With a tenative new race)
On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 09:17:39 -0700 "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM> writes:
<<SNIP>>
>This does make me wonder one thing, though... has anyone just
trashcanned
>the SR races and made their own sort of "world" with different races
from
>some other fantasy novel and kept the rules? Like Kay's "The Summer
Tree",
>or the Jordan "Wheel of Time" books...? I don't know how well this
would
>work... but it did just occur to me.
Actually, I kinda like the world presented in RMSS's (RoleMaster Standard
System) Shades of Darkness (a Genre book)... I was also thinking about
taking some races from RM (just Rolemaster) ... Here are the tenative
stats for the Cherubium (Winged Elves from RM):
Body: -1
Quickness: +1
Strength: -1
Charisma: +2
Advantages: Low-light vision, Flight with a quickness multiplier of 1/2
Essence
Of course life would be tough...imagine trying to find a job when you
have giant feathery wings ...
Well whadya think?
D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
"We're gonna need bigger guns ..." --Godzilla ad ;)
"Oh no it's Godzi--" *Squish*
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Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 03:17:22 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: ASIST assistance?
>Joshuwa Jenkins escreveu:
>> I always figured MPCP was the OS in SR.
On Sat, 2 May 1998 16:53:26 -0300 "Ubiratan P. Alberton"
<ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR> writes:
> Actually I think MPCP is the deck's main processor. In the main book
>it says it's "a bank of optical chips". I can't remember if there's more
stuff >clarifying it.
> As I have said before, ASIST would be the "base code" for all OSs
>created, the actual OS is more like to be the set of Persona programs
(Bod, >Sensor, Mask, etc.), but all OSs would be compatible because
they're all based >on ASIST.
>
> Ubiratan
hmmmm...*Flips through VR2.0 deck construction section* okay, I think the
MPCP would be the CPU/FPU with hardwired BIOS/OS. The MPCP iconography
would be the equivalent of Win95's Microsoft Explorer, Win 3.1's File
Manager, and Mac's Finder (Is that last one right?). The reality filter
would be the equivalent of well chosen icons and good layout. ASIST
would take the place of the keyboard, monitor, keyboard BIOS (yes it has
it's own), and video Bios (not certain if this exists :7). ASIST is
really nifty-keen :) The Persona programs are just that, programs
probably priveleged (any assembly programers should know what this means
;). I'm not sure whether or not the decks utilities would be privledged
as well ...
BTW, would 205x computers have a "seperate" FPU? (mondern chips have
their FPUs on-chip instead of the seperate Math co-processor [did this
start with the 486 or 586... can't remember but I think it started wih
the 486s ...]) The reason I ask is that I noticed that the current
register sizes are 32 bit which happens to be the size real4s ... I
understand Intel might be moving towards unspecialing the CPU
registers... could they be moving towards unifying the CPU and FPU as
well?
Also, I see most computers in SR as using a standard OS with an interface
patch put out by different companies ... or maybe a basic OS structure
with variants put out by different companies ... of course, one companies
OS might not neccisarily be entirely compatable with its competitors
software :)
D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
"Let he who is without SIN cast the first stone" (wonder if corporate
printed bibles still have that line... ;)
_____________________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 03:45:53 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyber and Mage
On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 08:30:32 EDT Airwasp <Airwasp@***.COM> writes:
>In a message dated 4/26/98 10:53:50 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
>night@********.CO.AT
>writes:
>> I really wonder why a mage should be cybered up at all? In fact, I'd
say
>> that cyber implantats shouldn't lead to a loss of magic only, but
also
>> distract him by casting spells. An extreme effect would be a +1
modifyer
>> on every cast spell for each lost point of essence!
>One advantage to being cybered up with certain pieces of cyber is that
it
>would lessen the load to be carried by the mage into the field, and
allow that
>extra free weight to be taken up by fetishes and things of the like.
Querry: does stuffing a fetish in a cyberlimb count as touching it for
spell casting purposes? (this just theoretical thought as [hopefully]
any mage would consider a cyberlimb too expensive essence-wise)
>Give a mage an internal BattleTac with IVIS and FDDM linked into them,
and
>then they could become a true magic drone, with the ability to sling a
spell
>and slam the frag out of people that are about to come around the corner
as
>one of his team members is in the same corridor as the opposition and
sees the
>opposition. Pity this has yet to be done with the group in the home
game,
>although there is now only one true spellslinger in the entire group.
The
>other two spellslingers are either not able to come to the game or is
going
>off to an SCA event, or is too tired because of work the night before.
I don't believe BattleTac with IVIS and FDDM count as LOS. although the
mage payed essence for all his gear, the signal has to be transmitted
which disrupts the LOS, so your idea wouldn't work, sorry. :) would be
kinda cool though ...
>Cyber also is not something one can ground through, as enchantments and
active
>spells are.
>
>Cyberware would also allow for a mage to be better integrated into a
team as
>the mage is now going to get information that the norms normally only
get and
>can then rely on the information (as in the first example) to help the
team
>out immensely.
hmmmm... an intiated mage with some cyber might mask his aura to appear
mundane and have any assensing opposition think he's a street sam or,
more likely, a merc and act accordingly then get taken off guard when the
"merc" slings a spell their way <grin> ... hmmmm... could an intiated
mage fudge his aura to appear as having cyber? (Note: IIRC, aura masking
has the same T# regardless of the degree of change ... this not good )
>All I have to say is this, I am glad tech has become as important in the
home
>game right now. Cuts the power down in some ways, bringing it more into
some
>form of reality and out of the heavens. And above all else I am
thankful for
>the R2, this book was the catalyst for our home games. Which reminds
>me I am probably going to go through one a year at the rate I am going
>currently with the way the spine is going out.
>
>Mike
Duct-tape the bindings :) I liked R2 as well but I don't think it
reached final production stage yet ... too many holes :/ I like the new
drones :)
D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
Player: "What's Dikote?"
GM: <insert explanation of Dikote>
Player: "Can I--"
GM: "NO!"
:)
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Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 21:59:38 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wildthing <twowolfe@*******.NET>
Subject: Team Name
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Anyone Using the name Regulators as a team name or person name ?
Im thinking of using it in the CoT hunts as Wildthing's Team
If i dont get any negitive mail im going to send it out late wensday or
thursday
Thanks
Wildthing
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 07:41:31 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Airwasp <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: On with the show...
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In a message dated 5/2/98 9:43:47 PM !!!First Boot!!!, joshbell@**********.COM
writes:
> I am new to Newsgroups/Messages and so I just posted what I thought was
> cool, and if it IRITAITED some of you..sorry, I guess I got a little OUT
> THERE too fast. So hold on a sec......<loud sound in the background>
>
> <ahhhh!...>
>
> There I just killed my evil twin, Hi I am Josh, and I am here to stay!
Hey Josh, don't worry about it, it happens to all of us, trust me.
So welcome in for the long haul, and be always aware of where Gurth's stairs
are in case of an incoming carping.
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 13:48:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: On with the show...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980502174224.00699ab8@***.mindspring.com>
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Joshua Bell said on 17:42/ 2 May 98...
> *- I know that DELTA cyberware is different in Cybertechnology, because I
> created my chart before cybertechnology came out, and didn't feel like
> downgrading mine.
>
> *- I don't know greek. so I named them as i remembered them (i.e. GAMMA
> after DELTA). I didn't think it was important.
Perhaps it would have been a good idea to include a note about these
points in the original post, it would have cleared up a lot of confusion
beforehand.
> I am new to Newsgroups/Messages and so I just posted what I thought was
> cool, and if it IRITAITED some of you..sorry, I guess I got a little OUT
> THERE too fast.
I didn't see any problem with your post, but I wouldn't use it myself.
Some people are more easily irritated than others, though.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 13:48:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: [OT] Sinclair QL (was Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question))
In-Reply-To: <8142.199805021811@*****.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
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Spike said on 19:11/ 2 May 98...
> And verily, did Gurth hastily scribble thusly...
> |A QL?
>
> Darn.... Have you been reading ahead in the posts?
> If not, I'll stop now before I get in trouble....
Nope, I read your message, replied, and then went on to find out the
answer in later posts. Since it was you asking what computer the guy used,
I figured it had to be a QL... (Why did I ever sell my Spectrum...?)
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 13:48:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: ASIST assistance?
In-Reply-To: <354B79B6.836A0FA1@************.com.br>
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Ubiratan P. Alberton said on 16:53/ 2 May 98...
> As I have said before, ASIST would be the "base code" for all OSs
> created, the actual OS is more like to be the set of Persona programs
> (Bod, Sensor, Mask, etc.), but all OSs would be compatible because
> they're all based on ASIST.
I don't think so... I think it's easier to compare ASIST to something like
a printer: to use the printer, you need to send it commands _it_ can
interpret, not the things you want to send to it. The same things happens
with the printer's error messages: if you don't know what it'll send back
to you, you can't interpret them.
Once you know the commands the printer expects and the messages it sends
back, you can write programs that will allow you to use the printer on any
computer, as long as the program does two things: 1) work under the
computer's OS, and 2) translate between the OS and the printer.
Same with the human brain: if you send it any raw data, the brain will
only be confused, while if you send it the type of data it _expects_,
it'll do what you want it to. The output given off by the brain is also in
a particular format, which you need to decipher if you want computers to
react to it.
What ASIST does (IMHO) is turn the human brain's signals into a
standarized set of instructions, which can then be turned into signals a
computer can use by means of an additional interpreter. This interpreter
could (and likely would) be built into an OS if that OS is designed
specificaly for working with ASIST signals, but it doesn't mean every OS
would be compatible just because they can all use ASIST signals. Another
comparison: both a Mac and a Windows PC can use a mouse. Does that mean
you can run Mac software under Windows?
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 13:48:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
In-Reply-To: <199805030351.XAA29331@*******.scescape.net>
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Paul Gettle said on 23:53/ 2 May 98...
> I would imagine that Desert Wars would have at least a bit of the
> colorful personalities you see in any pro-wrestling match. (Although
> I'd imagine those personalities would be more for the benifit of the
> trid watching audience, with the real warring done by more down to
> earth platoons of both coporate troops and hired mercs.)
I'm not 100% sure of this, but IIRC I read somewhere (Corporate
Shadowfiles, I think) that mercs aren't used in Desert Wars.
Or is that just something I made up myself for the DW article I've been
writing for NERPS: NAGTTW?
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 13:48:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Desert Wars (was Re: OT: Babylon 5 news/SR TV)
In-Reply-To: <354BC6F7.4134@*****.net>
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Wyrmy The powerful said on 20:23/ 2 May 98...
> I thought Desert wars was a corporate war fought in a desert.Can someone
> enlighten me about that show?
Desert Wars is the corps' way of fighting out their differences and making
money off of it at the same time. The corporate military and/or security
forces fight it out in a North African desert, sometimes lethal (using
live ammo etc.), sometimes non-lethal (much like modern-day military
exercises with blanks, MILES systems, etc.), with trid cameras recording
the whole thing and broadcasting it all over the world -- sort of like the
Gulf War but planned as a media event before it started instead of turning
into one while it happened :)
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 10:32:37 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John Penta <johndevil@****.COM>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
Adam wrote:
<snip>
>>Actually, just how old were you, Wyrmy, during the Gulf War?
>I was 11, I think. So that would put Wyrmy at 7 or 8? Old enough to
enjoy
>the explosions :)
Hehe. I was 7 during the Gulf War. I just remember (mostly) scuds falling
on Israel, as broadcast by CNN. And my parents wonder why I have the
political views I have?:/
John
johndevil@****.com
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Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 10:11:08 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Loup garou (was Re: Buzzed gangers
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> > Re: Buzzed gangers (David Hinkley , Sat 11:17)
> > <snip ER story> Seems that
> > they had had single sets of cuffs broken along with the subjects
> > wrists. All in all it is bad stuff.
> From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.net>
> Which bears out my point- the drug did not make the guy
stronger, or
> actully effective in "combat"- they just made him more willing to fight
> and less concerned about getting hurt.
> Your run of the mill NON DRUGGED psycotic can exhibit identical
> behavior.
Sounds like a Loup-garou during its up-cycle. Absolutely insensitive to
pain, and having overcome its normal restrictions against self-inflicted
injury.
Speaking of the loup, has anyone figured out what's wrong with them? In
their games or in a novel somewhere? Last I knew, they were infected with
some kind of virus... one that was very transmittable, and with no known
cure. Anyone figured out anything further?
***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
"Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn lasts
forever"
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
"Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo the
better part of humor."
aka Ellegon, Working at making Cannon canon
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are crunchy
and good with ketchup."
--------[Geek Code Block]-----------
GED/GSS d- s++:+ a-- C++ W w+ PS+.5 PE- Y+ t+
5+ X+ R*+.5 !tv+ b+.5 DI+ D- G e h !r-- !y+
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=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 16:20:33 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] Sinclair QL (was Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro
question))
In-Reply-To: <199805031147.NAA01476@****2.xs4all.nl> from "Gurth" at May
3,
98 01:48:34 pm
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And verily, did Gurth hastily scribble thusly...
|Nope, I read your message, replied, and then went on to find out the
|answer in later posts. Since it was you asking what computer the guy used,
|I figured it had to be a QL... (Why did I ever sell my Spectrum...?)
HERETIC!
I command you to buy another one this instant...
Or at least download one of the emulators...
:)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 10:12:40 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: The talks on my Cyberware post. (munchkin humour)
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> From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.net>
> *GMGMV- Game Master - Gamer Munchkin Virus.
> Being a minmaxer is like being a ghoul- you annoy other gamers,
and eat
> old game books, but don't have to suck the fun out of the game to live.
> I'd say the "Munchkin whiner" is like the banshee, as its
wailing
> instills fear and causes others to flee, and leave the rest to others to
> amuse ME with....
This should become a standard part of nettiquette, IMO.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 11:32:57 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Alternate SR (With a tenative new race)
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In a message dated 5/3/98 5:13:11 AM US Eastern Standard Time, dghost@****.COM
writes:
> Actually, I kinda like the world presented in RMSS's (RoleMaster Standard
> System) Shades of Darkness (a Genre book)... I was also thinking about
> taking some races from RM (just Rolemaster) ... Here are the tenative
> stats for the Cherubium (Winged Elves from RM):
>
<snipped stat suggestions>
Geesh, something else to make elves feel superior to everyone
else...wings...(sigh)
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 12:26:19 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jacob Engstrom <sabredanz@****.COM>
Subject: Re: GridSec Kicks Dogs! News at 11!
On Fri, 1 May 1998 20:29:42 -0500 Nexx <nexx@********.NET> writes:
>----------
>> From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
>
>> At 04:37 PM 5/1/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>> >It would be my advice that every time you see something that pisses
>> >you off, kick your dog <snipped>
>>
>> I'm shocked and horrified that an official member of GridSec no less
>would
>> advocate the abuse of a poor, defenseless, innocent animal!
>
>I have no respect for a man who kicks his dog.
>
Yeah but what about someone elses?
Sabredanz
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Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 12:49:43 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jacob Engstrom <sabredanz@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Something Interesting I Must have missed...
Buddy from 2XS.
-Sabredanz
On Sat, 2 May 1998 13:48:15 EDT Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM> writes:
>Hi all, I found this on the Rec.games list earlier (yes, I was
>slumming it)...
>
>> PS: Who were the _______ (please insert the number here) surviving
>Echo
>> Mirage team members?: Fast Jack, Lucien Cross (of Cross Applied
>> Technologies BLOOD in the BOARDROOM, p.57), ______ , _______, ....
>> Note: Kyle Haeffner's first wife Alice was part of the Echo Mirage
>> team but she died fighting the Crash Virus/AI. (TARGET: UCAS,
>pp.51-52).
>
>And then in another book, "Alice" is a running loose presence in the
>Matrix...
>
>Connections? Thoughts? Etc...
>
>-K
>
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Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 12:49:43 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jacob Engstrom <sabredanz@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Eurowars (Long)
--------- Begin forwarded message ----------
From: "James D. McManus" <lmaghnuis@**.duluth.mn.us>
To: sabredanz@****.com
Subject: Re: Alex van der Kleut <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>: Re: Eurowars
(Long)
Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 13:26:16 -0500
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980502132616.008c23c0@**.duluth.mn.us>
At 02:45 PM 5/1/98 EDT, Sommers wrote:
>
>
><Quote from Timeline Explorer>
>2033: On January 23, in Europe, Swedish airspace monitors detect several
>flights of what
>appear to be British Aerospace FA-38 Nightwraith fighter-bombers flying
>across northern
>Europe. In short order, the aircraft obliterate key communications and
>command centers
>belonging to both sides. At the same time unidentified commandos murder
>several
>hard-liners on both sides while the Matrix grids of both factions are
>destroyed by a virulent expert attack program. With their offensive
plans
>crippled beyond recovery, the two sides announce a cease-fire the
>following
>day. Although Swedish records indicate the planes origin to be in the
>area
>of Great Britain, no nation ever takes credit for the Nightwraith
>strike.(Source unknown)
>
><End Quote>
>
FIRST POINT...SOURCE UNKNOWN. So it is taken as scripture but has no
intrinsic reliability.
>
>Two, those pesky commandos. In sounds like what they did was a general
>bump
>off the brass operation. If they were unidentified, that means that they
>weren't killed or captured,
Not required... there are many sources of unidentifiable troups. They
might not have even known who they were. Black market equipment,
commandos with no SIN....the fact that they were succuessful indicates
they were good(and or that they had magical back up that the defenders
did not have.) {Now why would the immortal elves want to end the war
quickly? ;) }
>and therefore very good. Again, someone with
>good resources, either a country, small evil
<<<<or unconventionally good>>>> they did stop a major war.
>group of individuals, or
>very>powerful individual could recruit/hire/blackmail/etc into doing
this.
>
>The third part is those pesky planes. The exact quote is "Swedish
>airspace
>monitors detect several flights of what appear to be...". This means
that
>they were identified on radar. I just finished a radar class, and I know
>that radar, especially air-control radar doesn't give you a picture of a
>plane.
Military radar will tell you know. Airspacemoitors could have used lower
tech as well...they might have seen them with their bare eyes. (Hmmmn...
doesn't show up on radar but a bunch of reliavle people saw them. How
many Dragons would it take to do an illusion of several flights of
planes.)
>This is all done by computer.
Or by visual IFF training.
>
>
>Of course, another scenario is: what if the planes never existed? People
>said that the planes stayed in the UK that night. Only the Swedes
>detected
>them. No one shot them down, any of them, in the middle of the war. Then
>they disappeared again. Seems almost impossible. Sherlock Holmes,
>eliminate
>the impossible, and the improbable is the answer.
Impossible? Hardly my dear Watson! with Magical cover it could be a
simple matter to get the planes in and out with no other sightings. I
dare say I've known groups that could do that in 2057 against borders
with much better magical and techno security that Europe of 2033. At
least with an individual airplane.
>out by saboteurs. You try to figure out what happened, and along comes a
>message about some planes spotted.
But what physically destroyed these sights? Nukes...don't think so. US
made cruise missles? British made air launched munitions? Left over
soviet Agicultural explosives? They all leave identifiable residue.
Dragon Fire?
Only if you know to look for it. Ditto: Fire elementals, toxic spirits
etc.
How hot was the Magical investigation Tech in 2033?
Note, that the above unreleased message is the only available source of
info on the topic. Unless it was say Dunkelzahn acting without backup
the there are a lot more people that know what really happened.
The real question is why don't WE know any more?
>
>
>So am I too paranoid or not enough?
Not even close to enough....
Shadow Prime
>
Please forward
--------- End forwarded message ----------
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=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 13:15:35 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wyrmy The powerful <elfman@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
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> Actually, just how old were you, Wyrmy, during the Gulf War?
I was about 10 years old.
--
If you are a dreamer come in,
If you are a dreeamer, a wisher,
A liar, a magic jelly bean buyer,
Come In!
-What should be the motto of all internet users.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 12:14:33 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Vagabond <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: On with the show...
Content-Type: text/plain
> OK, so most of you GMs out there didn't like my CYberware
additions
>(EPSION, S. EPSILON), I don't care.. it was my opinion and gaming
style,
>that is yours. Cool! different styles are what make RPGs fun. I just
>wanted a few things noted.
To quote the veinacular: "By Jove, I think he's got it!"
>
>*- I know that DELTA cyberware is different in Cybertechnology, because
I
>created my chart before cybertechnology came out, and didn't feel like
>downgrading mine.
Woulda saved a LOT of headache if you stated that orginally.
>
>*- I don't know greek. so I named them as i remembered them (i.e. GAMMA
>after DELTA). I didn't think it was important.
It isn't. As a matter fact, none of it is. It's all a game.
>
>I am new to Newsgroups/Messages and so I just posted what I thought was
>cool, and if it IRITAITED some of you..sorry, I guess I got a little
OUT
>THERE too fast.
NEVER apologize for stating what you believe in. Be it RPGs, or a
political views. They are your views and you have a right to express
them (and change them if I can talk you into it<g>). But keep in mind
we all have a right to disagree. I don't think anyone has taken your
posts personal, and I don't think any of our posts were meant for YOU to
take personal. You posted your ideas. I didn't particularly like them,
and I stated why. But like I said, if it works for you, more power to
you.
I don't think anyone should hold grudges over rules of a game- we
save that for our RL gaming groups. :)
So hold on a sec......<loud sound in the background>
>
><ahhhh!...>
>
>There I just killed my evil twin, Hi I am Josh, and I am here to stay!
>
I for one welcome you. It's good to get new and intresting ideas and
inputs. Although I didn't like your posts, doesn't mean I don't look
foward to new and different viewpoints. I don't know about everyone
else, but that's why I joined(contrary to popular belief, I didn't join
to hear my own voice<g>- that's why I have a job ;)
-Vagabond
"I may not like what you have to say, but I'll defend to the
death your right to say it."
-Thomas Jefferson
________________________________________________________
<nomad74@*******.com> <ICQ 4297972>
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=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 15:04:50 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: GridSec Kicks Dogs! News at 11!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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----------
> From: Jacob Engstrom <sabredanz@****.COM>
> >I have no respect for a man who kicks his dog.
> >
> Yeah but what about someone elses?
> Sabredanz
Them either.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 16:56:59 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Zeitgeists (Ghosts in Time?)
In-Reply-To: <354AA3E7.C6D9D347@************.com.br>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Sat, 2 May 1998, Ubiratan P. Alberton wrote:
> I ahven't got to the Machine on that file yet, but imagine this: When
> you think of Math
> for Wisdom Lumini, think of Leonardo DaVinci hunched over a sheet of
> paper with a quill in
> his hand, designing one of his brilliant inventions, not in some
> computer calculating. Think
> of the entusiasm you feel when you solve a problem on your own, without
> technological help.
> This is the feeling those Lumini represent. It's the creative process
> rather than the final
> product.
>
I still wouldn't classify this as wisdom, though. Something more akin to
love than anything else, but the abstract world of numbers has nothing to
do with wisdom. There is many a college that has a healthy population of
people who do differential equations and linear series for fun, and are
most likely Mr. Science's illegitimate children. But they don't have the
common sense that god gave to a gnat. I believe my favorite quote about
this is the one from Jurassic Park: You spent so much trying to figure out
if you _could_ do it, that you never stopped to think if you _should_ do
it.
I can expand on this theme for a few more pages if you want. =) Perhaps
there should be a Lumini for "Creation" and a Lumini for "Destruction"
as
its opposite number?
> And about the stats, each individual spirit is quite unique, and
> since they represent emotions,
> what better thing than let their stats be created subjectively? :)
> Powers are used with Essence,
> wich is also TN for conjuring, Banishing, etc. And the GM determines all
> stats.
Well where's the fun in that? ;) Dunno... if I were to have something
like this introduced into my campaign, I'd want a pretty good idea of what
powers a standard non-free version would have. Even if it was nothing
more than giving them the stats of a "Spirit of Man" and a few common
powers that would go with it. I could probably cook something up if I
wanted to, but I think it's a big assumption to believe that all GMs are
that creative. =)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 17:16:01 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: ASIST assistance?
In-Reply-To: <354B68F1.A15B1C20@***********.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sat, 2 May 1998, Joshuwa Jenkins wrote:
> >Michael Broadwater wrote:
>
> >The bios doesn't deal with direct I/O. That's the keyboard and monitor,
> >as was already said. BIOS may do some I/O control, but that's as far
> >as it goes. ASIST just does input/output. It's not software that dictates
> >how memory is allocated, drive access, runs software, etc. You would, most
> >likely, need an OS to _run_ ASIST.
>
> I always figured MPCP was the OS in SR.
>
Really? I always figured that the MPCP was sort of the processor chip,
kinda like a pentium today... However, I just grabbed my copy of SRII, and
it shows that MPCP stands for "Master Persona Control Program", and it
"contains the master operating system that integrates the deck's
programs". Guess I was wrong. =) It also does a bunch of stuff that
todays OSes don't do, though it seems kinda like what they are trying to
do with Windows, in that it not only is an OS, but it gives you a tie in
to cyberspace.
> Or would ASIST take care of the CMOS job along with the basic BIOS tasks?
>
I'd think ASIST wouldn't, since it's just the "simsense" adapter... It
allows you to see and experience stuff in the VR sense. I'd say the MPCP
does the BIOS stuff, too, given the basic description in SRII.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 17:28:35 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: ASIST assistance?
In-Reply-To: <354B79B6.836A0FA1@************.com.br>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sat, 2 May 1998, Ubiratan P. Alberton wrote:
> Joshuwa Jenkins escreveu:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I always figured MPCP was the OS in SR.
> >
>
> Actually I think MPCP is the deck's main processor. In the main book
> it says it's "a bank of
> optical chips". I can't remember if there's more stuff clarifying it.
There is. In the very next sentence where it says it contains the OS. =)
> As I have said before, ASIST would be the "base code" for all OSs
> created, the actual OS
> is more like to be the set of Persona programs (Bod, Sensor, Mask,
> etc.), but all OSs would
> be compatible because they're all based on ASIST.
I tend to view the persona programs as being something of an add-on...
like one puts a 3d effects card and a sound card in your computers these
days. Realistically, most legitimate cyberdecks only have Bod and Sensor,
and that's only add-on stuff to allow it to interact through the Matrix.
The personal computers you can buy in SR are probably not too unlike the
computers you can get today. You can do word processing, check your
email, etc. It is just is not at all adapted for any kind of VR
interface. I did remember to look up my copy of Shadowbeat, and all it is
is a way to convey simsense simulations to a person through a neural feed.
I don't have the book with me but I can reprint choice sections if need
be. If ASIST is an OS, then not only is my keyboard and monitor an OS,
but so is my TV and VCR. I think the big clincher about ASIST not being
an OS, even if you don't buy it being just an input/output medium, is that
you can turn it off and still use your deck. Really. Check out VR2.0.
It's under the hot/cool/tortoise section. =)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 20:46:27 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Phil Levis <pal@**.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Extreme Essence Reduction (LONG)
In-Reply-To: <354C42FB.6FBC@**********.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sun, 3 May 1998, Wafflemeisters wrote:
> Why would they bother? If all he needs is a data jack, deltaware is
> probaly relaible enough to fuction as long as even that elf will live,
> and ANY essence loss will cause loss of a magic point. It would only be
> worht the trouble if you were crammingin a buch of cyber, and thus
> worried about keeping the essence cost total under 1, (or .85,for a
> safety margin) so as not to cause loss of MULTIPLE magic points. I know
> they see "essence preservation" as a religeous goal, but they are not
> SILLY.
>
> -Mongoose
Well, I think that this point steps into the bounds of distinctionsb
betweern what are OOC game mechanics which approximate the world, and its
actual workings. The discrete nature of Magic reduction with cyberware, I
would argue, is a rule, and not necessarily true in the world itself. From
an OOC standpoint, it makes little sense to spend all this trouble to
reduce the essence loss from a datajack; I'd argue that it would make a
tremendous deal of sense from the perspective of a character.
Let's take the elves of Tir na nOg as an example, or at least those that
fervently believe in the spiritual aspects of 'sacred essence.' Now,
admittedly, the addition of cyberware would not be a common occurance,
especially for the magically inclined. However, there are some things
which cyberware can achieve which no magic, as of yet, can. Hence my
example of the datajack.... there is no 'Enter Matrix' spell.
Let's take for granted that a certain follower of one of the Paths really
wants to have a datajack, either for intellectual, spiritual, or economic
reasons, or perhaps just interest. Especially for a spiritual belief so
steeped in the value and importance of magic, I'd find it strange for this
elf to make a decision along the lines of 'I might was well get
Delta-Grade cyberware because although there are methods which could
reduce the disruption of my aura and magical self in comparison, my magic
will still be the same due to the discrete nature of magical power.' For
them, it is a spiritual obsession; although that .05 essence difference
doesn't matter too much when it comes to game mechanics, it makes a
difference in their lives.
Try to make a correlation with Christian Science, if you will. (I myself
am not a Christian Scientist, and am not completely versed in the
religion's theology, so if I'm wrong, correct me) One of the aspects of
belief in Christian Science, as far as I understand it, involves the
refusal of modern medical techniques; instead, prayer and religious
methods are used. There have been Supreme Court cases involving charges of
parental negligence against Christian Scientists when a child has died
because they refused to take the child to the hospital, instead calling in
a spiritual healer. (It was ruled that they were not negligent, btw) Now,
I don't think a Christian Scientist would allow one medical procedure
which is more invasive than another due to the fact that they know that
'it won't affect my piety any more'.
Unless, of course, you decide that the world is governed by the rules, and
not that the rules attempt to model the world.
Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 20:48:52 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: SThanatos <sthanatos@*********.COM>
Subject: Mother Russia
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
There is little to no printed information available about Russia or Eastern
Europe out there! Does anyone know of a place where I could obtain some
info on Russia in the 2050s? I'm trying to flesh out one of my characters.
Ryan Yokley
| Faithful Citizen of the Terran Mobile Infantry |
| --Death From Above!-- |
| --And keep your foot off that BLASTED samophlange!-- |
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 20:07:00 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Comics/Manga Alternate SR (Was re:Alternate SR) also: Ghost
Hacking
Has anyone thought of bringing things from manga/anime/comics into SR? I
think I've seen BGC for SR but that was BGC using SR rules. I mean
bringing elements into standard SR. I am particularly interested in
Ghost in the Shell, Grendel and Mage (the last to are comics from Matt
Wagner).
Lastly, has anyone thought up rules for ghost hacking? (see Ghost in the
Shell) I was thinking some sort of computer/psychology test with special
software against a target number of target's willpower (R)
D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
"Did you hear about the suicidal twin that killed her sister by mistake?"
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Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 19:44:04 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Radiation and Magic
What if radiation and magic are the same or related?
I got this idea after reading the threads about mages in space... what if
the Sun (being the source of life on this planet) emits monstrous amounts
of mana of different types and we humans can only handle certain types?
The Ozone layer acts as a ward to block off the mana that we can't handle
or at least most of it ... (gee, I hope they patched those holes in the
ozone layer ...) The insanity/death would be caused by creating a link
for the unhealthy mana to feed straight into the mage's brain. This
would mean that there is an astral plane outside the earth and all that
would be needed to create a safe enviroment for mages in space would be
to recreate the magical properties of the ozone ... (which shouldn't be
easy by any means) and would also explain spirits with "an affinity to
solar fire". It's a stretch, but if you don't stretch you'll never go
anywher :)
D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
"Young lady, in this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics!" --Homer
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Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 20:27:55 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Mana Cycles ? Merlin (the NBC movie)
I don't think there are any spoilers (If you've seen the movie you'll
know where I got my inspiration), but just in case ...
I
'
l
l
i
n
c
l
u
d
e
s
o
m
e
s
p
o
i
l
e
r
s
p
a
c
e
:)
Here's the idea: what if the mana cycles were induced/fluctuated by our
belief in magic? I think this is a neat idea and would mean that the
current mana spike wasn't caused by the Great Ghost Dance but rather by
how quickly information spread about it... this will probably mean that
it will be alot less unlikely that a mana downswing will occur (but not
impossible) So what started the return of magic? The new agers with
there beliefs in power pyramids/crystals, the tarot, etcetera. Oh well
tell me what ya think :)
NOTE: this would also explain why the First World was *the* first world
:)
D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
"ET's of the universe, unite and stamp out humans!" -- from a Robert A.
Heinlein anthology
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Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 19:15:44 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: SR Companion Metatypes
On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:40:58 -0400 Dust <rogan@******.ORG> writes:
>Hey everyone,
>
>Just wondering how many people have PCs that are metahuman variants from
>the SR Companion. I asked this question a month or two after the
Companion >came out and there weren't that many. I'm curious if the
number has gone up. >Since then, I've had a koborokuru, hobgoblin, and
giant in the campaign I GM. >The koborokuru PC has lasted 'bout a year
and is still going.
>
>Well lates,
>
>Dust
<<SNIP>>
I play a Minotaur rigger with a CRCD to control a special walker drone, 2
mini-arachnoid drones, and a Rolls-Royce Prairie Cat equipped RPAP 2. He
doesn't speak english very well, so I have plenty of opportunities to
mess with the other players ;) He tends to play guardian angel over my
otaku elf's meat body.
I also have a Tiger Shapeshifter Physical Adept with Amnesia, a phobia of
Aztechnology logos, and Hunted flaws ... gonna be interesting ... Name?
Goes by Tabby (Short for Tabula Rasa, given to her by someone wearing a
white lab coat in a fuzzy memory. Real name? Project 64.)
Lastly, I have Fox Shapeshifter Moon Physical Druid (currently unnamed)
who uses an acoustic guitar for centering. She has an abandoned
warehouse with a partially (mostly) callapsed roof where she built her
stone circle (thanks Panther). She has an electric car (with suncell)
that she parks indoors (if ya can call it indoors) and sleeps in while in
fox form.
D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
"God is a committee" --Jubal Harshaw
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Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 20:17:55 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkinism at it's finest
On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:14:52 PDT The Vagabond <nomad74@*******.COM>
writes:
>Note: If you don't give a thread a topic, I will. >:)
>>Josh in his not-so-infinite wisdom states thusly:
>>As a part-time gamemaster I have come up with the following:
> Looks like you need to log more hours. :) (j/k)
>>New 2060 ENHANCED-cyberware:
>>
>>TYPE ESSENCE COST
>>
>>ALPHA (-20%) (this is at standard cost and Availiabilty)
>>BETA (-40%) ( Cost x7, as per SSG) (Availability = +5 )
>>*DELTA (-60%) ( Cost x12) (Availability = +9)
> Delta is in Cybertech, and it's 50%/x10, IIRC
>>*GAMMA (-80%) ( Cost x20) (Availability = +13)
>>*EPSILON (-90%) ( Cost x100)(Availability = +20)
>>*SUPER EPSILON (-99%) ( Cost x200)(Availability = +35)
>>
>>I believe that this is fair (a super epsilon datajack costs 100,000Y)
> I believe it's not. Anything above 50% essence redection is just
>munchkinism. You can't rationalize these stats to a sane person.
<<SNIP contigency plan, slings and arrows (be nice Vagabond ... even to
the munchkins ;) >>
>
>-Vagabond
> "Under wandering stars I've grown"
okay first let's correct the chart with the Greek alphabet supplied by
Michael Broadwater (Thanks)
Alpha, Beta, and Epsilon remain unchanged,
Delta becomes Gamma (Ya know, I wondered why I always wanted to call
Deltaware Gammaware...)
S. Epsilon becomes Zeta (Which marketing may rename Omega since it sounds
much cooler ;)
I agree with Vagabond that cyberware that yields more than 50% decrease
in Essence cost is definately bad (with Delta grade cyber [now called
Gamma] and good surgery rolls, you can get the equivelent 15 essence
points of ware! That's a full body replacement with plenty of essence to
spare without going into cybermancy ...)
However if you insist on lower essence costs for newer wares, I suggest
the following:
Type Essence Cost Cost Availability
Delta 45% x20 ---
Epsilon 40% ? ---
Zeta 35% ? ---
In this incarnation Delta represents the alpha testing stage of a new
product whereas Epsilon and Zeta would be prototypes. I recomend
translating the extra essence reduction below 50% into body index (ie
Delta ware would increase body index by 5% of the original essence cost).
Remember: prototypes and gear in the alpha/beta test stages often have
unfriendly bugs <egmg> ...
Speaking of cyber and body index... would cyber increase the body index?
I can't see why it would ... I'm just starting down this train of thought
but ... I think cyber should incur body index (this, btw, would prevent a
chrome king from loading up on bioware). I see the cyber as doing more
"damage" to the aura (or perhaps it would be appropriate to say the
synchrinicty of the aura) than to the body index... but still raising the
body index some ... bioware would be the reverse ...what do you think?
These higher end cybergrades could also represent cyberartifacts
"available" through special channels. For example perhaps the Otaku
would know how to make a datajack at 40% essence cost and 10% in body (a
R4 datajack would cost .1 essence and increase body index by .025). Each
source would have the knowhow to produce one or two items at this level
and would only give access to certain people (in the above example, this
special datajack would only be available to other otaku.) In the case of
these special groups possessing this level of advanced knowledge, I would
forgo the bugs of prototypes.
hmmm... actually, the otaku might have the knowledge to theoretically
create a bioware datajack ... the only prob would be the connection to
the datajack plug ...
D.Ghost
(aka Pixel,Tantrum)
"Rub her feet" --Robert A. Heinlein
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Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 18:15:24 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Its that time of the year....
On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:16:46 -0500 Wyrmy The powerful <elfman@*****.NET>
writes:
>Well for the newbies,I Wil tell you what this is about.Every coupla
months I >ask what everyones favorite totem is(just because I'm curious
liek that).This >time you can include necro totems, druidic, etc. But if
it's not in grimmy or >Awakenings, list its stats(I might want to use
it).Well I'll start this off.
>This times favorite totem is:
><Drumroll>
>Bear!
>Big shaggy brother,stand up and take a bow!!!
><Drumroll>
>Whats yours?
>--
Really? I would of thought it'd be Wyrm ... ;) (btw, yes I read ahead,
but I thought of that before I read you had I Wyrm shaman...)
My favs are:
Wyrm Druid (I like dragons, in fact I was born Year of the Dragon)
Moon Druid (I just like the imagery associated with moons ... and b4
anyone says anything I mean the chunk of rock orbiting the earth, not
any other kind of moons ;)
Eagle Shaman (I like the noble nature)
Phoenix Shaman (they rock! I propose a toast to long life! *ducks* ;)
and lastly Mantis Shaman (No, I've never played one, but wish I could ...
)
All in all, I tend to play hermetics :)
D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
"Hey what about a Godzilla totem?"
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Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 18:49:10 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Mo' bettah Cyberdoodads
On Sun, 19 Apr 1998 08:59:44 +0000 Panther <qmilton@**.NET> writes:
>>
>> A cyberlimb with synthskin cannot have any pop-up/open-up/fold-out
>> components but can have small holes (ie for datajacks). A Cybergun
>>(no BF or FA) could still be mounted but would have to surgically
>> reloaded...
>actually, if you think about it, you can probably have a flap of skin
>that folds over the opening or whatever, having it overlap with the
>skin on the other side of the opening, hopefully with it sealing to
>itself, kind of like saran wrap does
>
>Panther
DOH! I shoulda thought of that :) Ok, small pouches could be disguised
as scars ... not sure about the flap thing ... either be very concealable
and hard to open or easily noticed and easy to open ... unless you had a
DNI controlled device ... actually not even that. A lever action thingy
go open it ... push here, panel pops open ... dunno how much to charge
fer it ...
D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
*Spasing violently* "C-C-Caffine and su-sugar d-don't affe-fect me ..."
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Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 19:00:51 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Nicknames
On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 23:23:39 -0700 "Roger J. An" <rogan@******.ORG>
writes:
>I think there are a lot of interesting nicknames on the list. I was
>wondering how many people's nicknames were actually PCs or what not in
>SR campaigns. I know quite a few are and I bet there are a lot of
>interesting back stories for them.
<<SNIP>>
>Well, can't wait to hear stories about the PCs who were your
>nicknames.
>
>Lates,
>
>Dust
<<SNIP>>
Ok, D.Ghost is a comic book char I came up with and I'm not telling what
the D stands for until it's copyrighted but when I wrote up his stats
using SR, it involved Wired Reflexes 4 :) I have based some SR chars off
him tho.
Pixel is a nick I picked up when I started on IRC 4 years ago and still
use it now... It's based on the Robert A. Heinlein Novel, "The Cat Who
Walks Through Walls"
Tantrum is an Otaku Elf I am using in my campaign ... haven't got to play
him much he lives with a Minotaur rigger named Ragnarok and likes to pick
at semantics. The two of live in a Rolls-Royce Praerie Cat and although
they're currently in Seatle (of course ... everything happens in Seatle
;), they've travelled a bit before the start of the campaign.
D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
Once, a long time ago on irc:
<Pixel> Ah! There's a Blip on my screen!
<Blip> Ah! There's a Pixel on my screen!
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Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 19:28:06 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Riderless Blitzen
On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 23:09:36 -0700 Robert Nesius <nesius@******.COM>
writes:
>Question for the list:
>I have a player who wants to get a bike rigger controled, and use a
remote
>control deck to control it. His thinking is that he can "call for his
bike"
>and use the remote control deck to pilot it to where ever he is. I as
the
>GM am having serious problems grokking a Blitzen winging around by
itself
>and obeying traffic laws. What keeps bikes from tipping over are the
>gyroscopic effects of the wheels. When the bike stops, gyroscopic
effects
>are gone, bike tips over unless rider holds it up (or if the rider is
>unskilled and is trying to stop a big asss Honda Goldwing for the first
>time - but that's RL. Back to shadowrun.)
>
>So I wanted to put this on the list and get some feedback, because it's
>possible that there may be something in the books about this that I
haven't >seen.
>
>The question is: Riderless Blitzen - thumbs up or thumbs down?
I would go with thumbs up. :)
>Something I thought of was from a mechanical point of view, there
>could be a 'cyber-kickstand' Basically, when the bike comes to rest,
>two wheeled braces shoot out from the sides to the road and brace the
>bike. As the bike picks up speed, they retract. Seems reasonable in
>a world with cyberware. But at that point, the bike is begging to
>be stolen. If people actually did this, I'd drive around with a
>big flatbed truck that has a big winch/arm on it, and snag the bikes.
>
>-Rob
Wasn't there an RC motorcycle that had a gyroscope or something in the
middle to keep it balanced?
The cyber kickstand works for me :) To prevent it from being stolen
install Anti-theft systems with Electoshock. <eg> As for how unussual it
would look, you have to remeber in SR, you have people driving their cars
in rigger tanks instead of the front driver's seat (look in the RBB in
the shadowtalk about the Conestoga Trailblazer Prime Mover) or even if
they are in the driver seat, they may be zoned out rigged into the system
or not paying attention letting autonav do the driving (not advisable but
prolly okay in most circumstances with high autonav ratings). I would
say it'd be disturbing but not all that shocking ...
But this gives me a few ideas ...
What's the CF / cost for a full rigger tank? I think the "rigger
adaptation" in R2 just represents the computer systems needed to
interface with a VCR.
Second, what effect does the semi-AI nature of RPAP have on anti-theft
systems?
D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
"The secret of the universe is ^^^&*NO CARRIER"
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Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 13:34:58 +1200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: Mother Russia
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Quoth Sthanatos (1249 04-05-98):
>There is little to no printed information available about Russia or
Eastern
>Europe out there! Does anyone know of a place where I could obtain some
>info on Russia in the 2050s? I'm trying to flesh out one of my
characters.
I don't think that there's all that much out there. The BBB doesn't
mention anything about the Russian Republic after their generally
getting their butts kicked in the 'skirmishes' after the main EuroWars
petered out. From what I can gather, after that, everything ended up
pretty much like the USA did, and how Russia is today: fragmented,
crime-ridden, and with massive internal problems. I heard rumours of
Siberia going independent (under the control of the Awakened), but I
don't know if that's canon. There might be some net.supplements around,
but I'm not sure how detailed they'd be. I'll take a look around, see
what I can find for you.
I'd just like to add that *I EMPHATICALLY SECOND THIS REQUEST*! My PC
has a Russian-immigrant contact (with an uncle in the Organizatskaya
(Russian Mafia)), I'm planning to GM a run to Kazakhstan soon (yes,
Gurth, the one I asked you about), and hell, the Russians have always
been fun anyway. Of course, my impression of them comes mainly from Tom
Clancy, so what do I really know?
Danyel Woods
9604801@********.ac.nz
'Are you deliberately trying to drive me insane?'
'The universe is already mad. Anything else would be
redundant.'
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 21:13:29 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lee Hulbert <lhulbert@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Riderless Blitzen
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
SNIP
> >
> >The question is: Riderless Blitzen - thumbs up or thumbs down?
Thumbs up. Even today, there's a German company that put a hinged
weight in the chassis of a motorcycle to help it corner well.
computer controlled leans on the corners. with SR tech, full
automatic driving shouldent be too tough.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 22:35:15 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: THADEUSv20 <THADEUSv20@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Buzzed gangers
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-05-03 05:56:58 EDT, you write:
<< Which bears out my point- the drug did not make the guy stronger, or
actully effective in "combat"- they just made him more willing to fight
and less concerned about getting hurt.
Your run of the mill NON DRUGGED psycotic can exhibit identical
behavior.
>>
Actually PCP does kill pain cause it is a horse tranquilizer. You know as it
knocks a horse on it's ass. It was designed for use on horses so the
chemistry has a hallucinitory effect on the human body. It does cause one to
lose their ability to feel pain cause it's some heavy duty stuff.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 21:38:24 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Mana Cycles ? Merlin (the NBC movie)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
> I
> '
> l
> l
>
> i
> n
> c
> l
> u
> d
> e
>
> s
> o
> m
> e
>
> s
> p
> o
> i
> l
> e
> r
>
> s
> p
> a
> c
> e
> :)
>
> Here's the idea: what if the mana cycles were induced/fluctuated by our
> belief in magic? I think this is a neat idea and would mean that the
> current mana spike wasn't caused by the Great Ghost Dance but rather by
> how quickly information spread about it... this will probably mean that
> it will be alot less unlikely that a mana downswing will occur (but not
> impossible) So what started the return of magic? The new agers with
> there beliefs in power pyramids/crystals, the tarot, etcetera. Oh well
> tell me what ya think :)
Interesting theory... Personally, however, I don't think its plausible.
If it was true, why would a magical world ever end? People would believe
in magic during the Fourth and at the end of the Sixth, so the magic
wouldn't die.
Before you point to Merlin as an example, I would remind you that he had
powerful magic even at the end of movie (instantaneously youthening 2
people from senility to prime of life...), when no one believed but him.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 21:50:41 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Radiation and Magic
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
<snip theory>
> It's a stretch, but if you don't stretch you'll never go
> anywher :)
Its been fairly firmly established that they are related (both Almagordo
and Hiroshima have pretty good sized background counts). I hadn't thought
about the possibility of the sun putting out the wrong kind of mana (an
extreme version of the pollution of Astral Space in ED), and the ozone
layer filtering it out. Given that Aztlan is supposed to be heavily
polluted (esp. Technotchitlan), couldn't the foveae be areas where
dangerous sections of mana are exposed to the ground?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 23:04:26 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Drakkath X <DrakkathX@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Ghost Hacking (Was magna thing...)
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<< Lastly, has anyone thought up rules for ghost hacking? (see Ghost in the
Shell) I was thinking some sort of computer/psychology test with special
software against a target number of target's willpower (R)
D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
"Did you hear about the suicidal twin that killed her sister by mistake?"
>>
********************************************************************
I think that perhaps using magic edges (P.xx SR Companion) along with a
custom designed spell from the grimore might be the way to go here.
This is because i feel it's an incredibly powerful ability. The spell would
have to have a lot of drain and the victim of the hack should be able to
resist it again after every # of successess / willpower of victim days/hours
or something along those lines. but it should be neccessary to get the edge
to use the spell (this way, PC's can't use the ability withuot the GM's
permission, but the GM can add to a campaign with crazed loonies popping out
of the woodwork.)
I feel that it would be an excellent ability for a master antagonist (ex.
G.S.), but would be very reluctant to give it to my players for fear of making
misuse too easy.
Dogmeat
(a.k.a. Pit, Hanuman)
"No; But did you hear that Elves taste good on rye?"
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 22:44:15 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: On with the show...
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>
>I am new to Newsgroups/Messages and so I just posted what I thought was
>cool, and if it IRITAITED some of you..sorry, I guess I got a little
OUT
>THERE too fast. So hold on a sec......<loud sound in the background>
>
><ahhhh!...>
>
>There I just killed my evil twin, Hi I am Josh, and I am here to stay!
>
Don't sweat it, Josh...just get some Dermal implants and let it roll
off. Thick skin is almost a necessity around the net...
Tony Rabiola rabiola@**.netcom.com
Fourth and Sixth World Adept
Still working on the Fifth...
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 23:55:48 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Munchkinism at it's finest
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Alfredo B Alves escreveu:
>
> Speaking of cyber and body index... would cyber increase the body index?
I think not... the fine people here gave me some info on Body Index,
so there goes: Cyber doesn't cost B.I. because it's not a foreign piece
of DNA in your body, it's metal. Body Index is caused by insertion of
"strange" DNA in the body, and Essence is lost because of the metal
inside
you. That's why they're different things.
I think that both would cause psychological problems in the same way,
tough, if you like to roleplay this.
Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 23:46:51 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Comics/Manga Alternate SR (Was re:Alternate SR) also: Ghost
Hacking
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Alfredo B Alves escreveu:
>
> Has anyone thought of bringing things from manga/anime/comics into SR?
I happen to have some files with adaptation, some of them a bit old,
tough...
If you (or anybody else in this list, for that matter) want it, I can
send the one
wich are is English (in private mail; no dumping me out this time, Mr. J
:) ).
The English file is the "Hardsuit Construction Kit" with rules to build
Hardsuits from
BGC, and use them in the SR universe.
If there's anyone in the list who can reads Portuguese I can send an
adaptation of
NERV (from Neon Genesis Evangelion) to the SR universe, fitting
perfectly in the
"world history" from the beginning of the BBB.
> Lastly, has anyone thought up rules for ghost hacking? (see Ghost in the
> Shell) I was thinking some sort of computer/psychology test with special
> software against a target number of target's willpower (R)
>
IMHO, there is no ghost hacking rules in SR2 because magic already
does
it pretty well (all those "control something" spells :) ).
Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 23:38:34 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: ASIST assistance?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Alfredo B Alves escreveu:
>
> Also, I see most computers in SR as using a standard OS with an interface
> patch put out by different companies
Agreed, that's what I tried to say before (I don't have VR2)...
> of course, one companies OS might not neccisarily be entirely compatable
>with its competitors software :)
>
Imagine a secure system using only proprietary OS and sofware,
completely
different from the "standart" thing that's everywhere...
For an unauthorized decker get into it, he would have to acquire a
deck
and programs built to be compatible with the proprietary system, and
such things
are quite hard to come by... This can lead to one or two runs only to
take a look
inside that system :) ...
Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 00:04:31 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Babylon 5 news/SR TV
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Ereskanti escreveu:
>
>
> >
> Desert wars are a kind of "Military Staging Show" IMO. Corporations and
> Governments get to field test all their toys in given areas of the world.
> They normally would use "non-lethal" action options, and points are tallied
by
> massive systems (FDDM and IVIS and BTAC would help here I'm sure). There are
> stories I've read in some of the books (most of the older sourcebooks mainly)
> where Desert Wars groups sometimes get a bit carried away and do something
> "not quite by the book"...
>
It's in the Corp Shadowfiles: It was originally a battle 2 megacorps
were going to wage to settle a matter, and they decided to broadcast it.
The thing made a huge success, and now all the Big 8 do it, in the Saara
desert, North Africa (hence the name). It's almost like a sport, with
non-lethal, semi-lethal and the ocasional real battle. Non-lethal is
only
for ratings, the others are for settling disagreements withouth an
all-out
war and for field-testing, besides being broadcasted too.
Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 00:18:12 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Zeitgeists (Ghosts in Time?)
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Jeremy "Bolthy" Zimmerman escreveu:
>
>
>
Perhaps
> there should be a Lumini for "Creation" and a Lumini for
"Destruction" as
> its opposite number?
That's the idea I had, I just named them "Wisdom" and "War"... But
you are
right, the Lumini of Wisdom should also represent ethics (a rare concept
in
2060 :) ). Let's put it this way, then: They represent the love for
knowledge,
ethics in science and social skills and art, along with the pure
pleasure of
creating art and knowledge. Lumini of Love represent love one feels for
other
human beings. War (I have already written them up in the file, only
Machine is
left out out for now) represent combat and tactics, knowledge used for
destruction.
> Well where's the fun in that? ;) Dunno... if I were to have something
> like this introduced into my campaign, I'd want a pretty good idea of what
> powers a standard non-free version would have. Even if it was nothing
> more than giving them the stats of a "Spirit of Man" and a few common
> powers that would go with it. I could probably cook something up if I
> wanted to, but I think it's a big assumption to believe that all GMs are
> that creative. =)
I've put guidelines for determining stats in the file, too. They now
have a
force to be used with powers (and non-free Lumini can have stats equal
to Force,
since they not as individual as a Free one.). And if the target of a
power
doesn't want to be a target, just resist the thing with Willpower (TN#
Force).
Howz that?
Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 00:25:33 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Cyberware 2060/Jettware!
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Jessica Grota escreveu:
>
>
> > Sorry if I sound like a sourpuss- Jett sounds like a fine person to
> > invite over for an evening of mirth and mayhem.
>
> Thanks!
There was a character in my group of which I remembered after reading
Jett's description... :) It was never actually played, but it was
interesting...
A female samurai who is a heroin addict, and got her cyber being
"rebuilt" from a
failed prision escape :) , The crimelord who rebuilt her and gave her
the cyber
wants payment with missions, and maintains control by suplying her the
drug...
She's quite a rebel, witch put her in a difficult situation. Te
compensation
for startign out as a sort of "slave" was that the also started with
AlphaWare and
an Ares Combat Gun (Wasn't using Companion rules at the time).
Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 00:39:13 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: JonSzeto <JonSzeto@***.COM>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
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<multiple posts on how old people were during Desert Storm snipped>
STOP IT!!!!!!
You're making me feel old!!!
-- Jon
(who remembers the beginning of the *first* Gulf War, long before CNN was a
glimmer in Ted Turner's mind.)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 22:03:46 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Nesius <nesius@******.COM>
Subject: Rigger Tank CF: (Was: Re: Riderless Blitzen)
In-Reply-To: <19980502.202757.5182.8.dghost@****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 5:28 PM -0700 5/2/98, Alfredo B Alves wrote:
>
>But this gives me a few ideas ...
>What's the CF / cost for a full rigger tank? I think the "rigger
>adaptation" in R2 just represents the computer systems needed to
>interface with a VCR.
>
I wondered about that myself. I see rigger tanks mentioned very often,
but I haven't see a stat for them that I know of in terms of CF, etc...
I also was under the impression that "Rigger Adaptation" was
>Second, what effect does the semi-AI nature of RPAP have on anti-theft
>systems?
A good question. My interpretation of it was that the RPAP is it's
ability to deal with the unexpected. By and large, I would say
theft attempts are "unexpected" obstacles in the journey. Then the
question is "Does the AP see it coming?" If so, I'd give the vehicle
a chance to go around the obstacle in a rather simple-minded manner.
ie: The bike can perceive the obstacle, but perhaps not the intent of
the perptrators, and thus simply tries to go around in a simplistic
manner?
Ultimately, it's a GM's call I guess. I'm still learning Rigger2
things myself, so I'm sort of shooting from the hip here as well.
-Rob
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 00:09:10 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Mana Cycles ? Merlin (the NBC movie)
>> From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
>> I
>> '
>> l
>> l
>>
>> i
>> n
>> c
>> l
>> u
>> d
>> e
>>
>> s
>> o
>> m
>> e
>>
>> s
>> p
>> o
>> i
>> l
>> e
>> r
>>
>> s
>> p
>> a
>> c
>> e
>> :)
>>
>> Here's the idea: what if the mana cycles were induced/fluctuated by
our
>> belief in magic? I think this is a neat idea and would mean that the
>> current mana spike wasn't caused by the Great Ghost Dance but rather
by
>> how quickly information spread about it... this will probably mean
that
>> it will be alot less unlikely that a mana downswing will occur (but
not
>> impossible) So what started the return of magic? The new agers with
>> there beliefs in power pyramids/crystals, the tarot, etcetera. Oh
well
>> tell me what ya think :)
On Sun, 3 May 1998 21:38:24 -0500 Nexx <nexx@********.NET> writes:
> Interesting theory... Personally, however, I don't think its
>plausible.
>If it was true, why would a magical world ever end? People would
believe
>in magic during the Fourth and at the end of the Sixth, so the magic
wouldn't >die.
> Before you point to Merlin as an example, I would remind you
that he >had powerful magic even at the end of movie (instantaneously
youthening 2
>people from senility to prime of life...), when no one believed but him.
However, remember his last words? something like "that's it, no more
magic. it's all gone"? As he and others had less and less ability to
demonstrate, people started to forget and disbelieve, and they lost more
power, etc ... It's a downward spiral ... So what started the drop? Good
question ... I would think it was non magic users who were doing more
without magic than those with magic (ie Queen Mab not saving the life of
Merlin's mom) I'm assuming (ack! no! I must delete that word from my
vocabulary) that magic users even in a peak mana cycle would still be
pretty rare... also, Merlin's time was in 5th world (in about the middle
of 1/2 of the cycle on the upswing side) so I think it was maybe a brief
period of high mana ... not an awakening per se, but very close ... (btw,
do you think the dragon in the movie was any of the SR dragons? <j/k> I
wouldn't say it was a great drake just a "normal one" ;) Ah well, even
if this theory has holes I kinda like it :)
D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
"Um ... J'sui l'american!" -- Kevin Matchstick
_____________________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 01:30:44 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Journey <jjgray@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Mana Cycles ? Merlin (the NBC movie)
In-Reply-To: <19980503.001018.5182.13.dghost@****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>However, remember his last words? something like "that's it, no more
>magic. it's all gone"? As he and others had less and less ability to
>demonstrate, people started to forget and disbelieve, and they lost more
>power, etc ... It's a downward spiral ... So what started the drop? Good
>question ... I would think it was non magic users who were doing more
>without magic than those with magic (ie Queen Mab not saving the life of
>Merlin's mom) I'm assuming (ack! no! I must delete that word from my
>vocabulary) that magic users even in a peak mana cycle would still be
>pretty rare... also, Merlin's time was in 5th world (in about the middle
>of 1/2 of the cycle on the upswing side) so I think it was maybe a brief
>period of high mana ... not an awakening per se, but very close ... (btw,
>do you think the dragon in the movie was any of the SR dragons? <j/k> I
>wouldn't say it was a great drake just a "normal one" ;) Ah well, even
>if this theory has holes I kinda like it :)
An interesting relation to this idea can be found in Mage: The Ascention.
There, the reason magic disapeared from the world was simple... there was a
group actively trying to banish it. The Technocracy (a group of initially
well meaning philosophers who wanted to banish all harm and chaos from the
world) strove to make the average person believe in science, not magic. As
more and more people began disbelieving the 'illogical' principles of the
arts arcana, less and less magic was possible.
Jay
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 00:28:43 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Ghost Hacking (Was magna thing...)
>> Lastly, has anyone thought up rules for ghost hacking? (see Ghost in
the
>> Shell) I was thinking some sort of computer/psychology test with
special
>> software against a target number of target's willpower (R)
>>
>> D.Ghost
On Sun, 3 May 1998 23:04:26 EDT Drakkath X <DrakkathX@***.COM> writes:
>I think that perhaps using magic edges (P.xx SR Companion) along with
a
>custom designed spell from the grimore might be the way to go here.
>
>This is because i feel it's an incredibly powerful ability. The spell
would
>have to have a lot of drain and the victim of the hack should be able to
>resist it again after every # of successess / willpower of victim
days/hours
>or something along those lines. but it should be neccessary to get the
edge
>to use the spell (this way, PC's can't use the ability withuot the GM's
>permission, but the GM can add to a campaign with crazed loonies popping
out
>of the woodwork.)
>
>I feel that it would be an excellent ability for a master antagonist
(ex.
>G.S.), but would be very reluctant to give it to my players for fear of
making
>misuse too easy.
>
>Dogmeat
>(a.k.a. Pit, Hanuman)
>"No; But did you hear that Elves taste good on rye?"
hey! I play an elf ;)
For a magical effect I'd just use Control thoughts or something similar,
I was looking for something technological like Shadowbeat's PABs (thanks
fer pointing those out Panther :) but more on the fly like plugging into
someone's datajack and rewiring their brain %) hmmm... hafta give this
some thought ... Have to take into account the complexity of the human
brain ... maybe ghost hacker rolls lowest of computer / psychology skill
against a target number of what? Willpower? Intelligence? Charisma?
The average of the mental stats? The sum? The sum may be the way to go
... with the simplest of minds you've got a target number of 3 and
against the norm human max a T# of 18 ... another option is make the T#
10 then let the target resist ... either way how many net successes would
it take to achieve what result? Maybe I should convert some rules from
Hero ...
D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
"I don't understand why Blockbuster Video looked at me funny when I asked
if the carried 'Herbie does Monte Carlo'"
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 02:23:30 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, Lander Williams wrote;
>when was the gulf war again? '92? i was just wrapping up Highschool :)
91 I think, 90 if not. The years kinda blur. It was before MC23 came into
existence (or realized as it were), that was in '92.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Now you know, and knowing is half the battle
- G.I.Joe
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 23:42:00 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Nesius <nesius@******.COM>
Subject: What is a CF?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I have a question to submit to the list. One of my players was looking into
obtaining a sidecar for his motorcycle to facilitate carrying gear. As he
looked at the various sizes, he ran into the problem of trying to figure
out how much gear he could fit into a CF. The basic question we
have is "what is a CF?" I thought I saw a definition for it once, but
I cannot locate it. Can anyone help?
Thanks!
-Rob
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 16:47:05 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Geoff Skellams <geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: What is a CF?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
On Shadowrun Discussion, Robert Nesius[SMTP:nesius@******.COM] wrote:
> I have a question to submit to the list. One of my players was
looking into
> obtaining a sidecar for his motorcycle to facilitate carrying gear.
As he
> looked at the various sizes, he ran into the problem of trying to
figure
> out how much gear he could fit into a CF. The basic question we
> have is "what is a CF?" I thought I saw a definition for it once, but
> I cannot locate it. Can anyone help?
It's in Rigger 2, although I can't give you a precise page at the moment
as I don't have my copy with me.
A CF is a volume 0.5m x 0.5m x 0.5m (or a total of 0.125m^3). Not a
whole lot really.
I would guess that the boot of my car (or the trunk for the Yan^H^H^H
Americans) would be about 2-3CF.
cheers
Geoff (who is going to figure out the number of CFs on the cargo deck on
an Antonov An-224 one of these days)
--
Geoff Skellams R&D - Tower Software
Email Address: geoff.skellams@*********.com.au
Homepage: http://www.towersoft.com.au/staff/geoff/
ICQ Number: 2815165
"That rates about a 9.5 on my weird-shit-o-meter"
- Will Smith in "Men in Black"
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 03:10:39 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jessica Grota <grota@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberware 2060/Jettware!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> There was a character in my group of which I remembered after reading
> Jett's description... :) It was never actually played, but it was
> interesting...
> A female samurai who is a heroin addict, and got her cyber being
> "rebuilt" from a
> failed prision escape :)
Heh...ironic. Jett was a morphine addict for a while after she got her
scars. She was horribly traumatized both physically and mentally. She
proved just how strong she could be, though, and kicked that nasty
habit. Although she nearly relapsed once under heavy stress, which made
for great RP...
--Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 03:13:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jessica Grota <grota@*********.COM>
Subject: (OT)Gulf war (was: What's on the Trid?)
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MC23 wrote:
>
> Once upon a time, Lander Williams wrote;
>
> >when was the gulf war again? '92? i was just wrapping up Highschool :)
I would have been around 12. A bit older than Adam, I think. But only by
a couple months! :p I still have a sweatshirt that was supposed to be a
memorial to the Gulf war.
--Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 01:54:01 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lander Williams <lander@****.WAVE.CA>
Subject: Re: (OT)Gulf war (was: What's on the Trid?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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>> >when was the gulf war again? '92? i was just wrapping up Highschool :)
>
>I would have been around 12. A bit older than Adam, I think. But only by
>a couple months! :p I still have a sweatshirt that was supposed to be a
>memorial to the Gulf war.
>
>--Jett
even at '90, i would still have been in Hs.. 10? 12? i feel old now, thanks
guys <g>
Ranthar
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 02:02:46 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lander Williams <lander@****.WAVE.CA>
Subject: looking for info
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
im looking for info on Calgary and area.
i know its in the NAN, although the SRII manual doesn't seem to know
which area its in <one map says algonquin <sp>-manitou, another
says.. somewhere else.. dont remember off hand>
anyways.. i looked through a couple of the NAN books, and couldn't
find any reference. Ill grant that i was doing so in a store, where browsing
is frowned upon, so i couldn't take my time. *IS* there any info in said
books,
or somewhere on the 'net, or should i look into that as something to submit
(G)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 10:28:36 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
In-Reply-To: <354CB447.7ED5@*****.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Wyrmy The powerful said on 13:15/ 3 May 98...
> > Actually, just how old were you, Wyrmy, during the Gulf War?
> I was about 10 years old.
Neat trick if you're 14 now... The second Gulf War was 1990-91 (the first
being the Iran-Iraq war from 1980-88).
JonSzeto said on 0:39/ 4 May 98...
> <multiple posts on how old people were during Desert Storm snipped>
>
> STOP IT!!!!!!
>
> You're making me feel old!!!
You could use the same kind of magic(k) Wyrmy uses -- aging 4 years in 7
makes you a lot less old than you are now :)
> (who remembers the beginning of the *first* Gulf War, long before CNN was
> a glimmer in Ted Turner's mind.)
I wasn't paying too much attention to the news when that one started...
(For the record, I was about 6.)
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 10:28:36 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: [OT] Sinclair QL (was Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro
In-Reply-To: <12487.199805031520@*****.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Spike said on 16:20/ 3 May 98...
> |(Why did I ever sell my Spectrum...?)
>
> HERETIC!
>
> I command you to buy another one this instant...
> Or at least download one of the emulators...
Already got one -- but I haven't used it in years because those damn
modern keyboards have too little text on them :) (Any self-respecting
(ex-)Spectrum-user should know what I mean...)
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
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Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 10:28:36 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: What is a CF?
In-Reply-To: <v03110704b173139de064@[204.202.55.18]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Robert Nesius said on 23:42/ 3 May 98...
> I have a question to submit to the list. One of my players was looking into
> obtaining a sidecar for his motorcycle to facilitate carrying gear. As he
> looked at the various sizes, he ran into the problem of trying to figure
> out how much gear he could fit into a CF. The basic question we
> have is "what is a CF?" I thought I saw a definition for it once, but
> I cannot locate it. Can anyone help?
According to Rigger 2 (page 24), 1 CF is about 1/8th cubic meter, IOW a
volume of .5 x .5 x .5 m.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 11:35:06 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Fred Stoessel <Fred.Stoessel@*******.AI.FH-NUERNBERG.DE>
Subject: Harleys and Pumpguns
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hoi. I just read the last entry and now have question concerning bikes. A player in my
party is driving a
harley scorpion. Now he wants to transport his deck or his assault shotgun under the seat.
Is this possible?
-Stingray
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 06:19:02 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: SThanatos <sthanatos@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Mother Russia
In-Reply-To: <81F7A43B468BD111AFEC00A024EA0A2B09D35E@*********.polytech. ac.nz>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>I'd just like to add that *I EMPHATICALLY SECOND THIS REQUEST*! My PC
>has a Russian-immigrant contact (with an uncle in the Organizatskaya
>(Russian Mafia)), I'm planning to GM a run to Kazakhstan soon (yes,
>Gurth, the one I asked you about), and hell, the Russians have always
>been fun anyway. Of course, my impression of them comes mainly from Tom
>Clancy, so what do I really know?
In regards to the Organizatskaya, I have located some intel on that topic,
but nothing else. NERPS Underworld has a few pages on the Organizatskaya,
and since I don't know the actual home of NERPS, you can find Underworld at
the Shadowrun Archive: <http://welcome.to/shadowrun>;
If I don't find something soon, I may endevour to write a net.book on
Russia. If anyone is willing to help me out...
Ryan Yokley
--Death from Above
<http://home.earthlink.net/~ryokley>; The SRCA Website
<http://members.tripod.com/~sthanatos>; The Grimoire Phantasmal
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 11:28:01 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Radiation and Magic
In-Reply-To: <19980502.202757.5182.9.dghost@****.com> from "Alfredo B
Alves"
at May 2, 98 07:44:04 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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And verily, did Alfredo B Alves hastily scribble thusly...
|
|What if radiation and magic are the same or related?
That has been hinted at several times.
|I got this idea after reading the threads about mages in space... what if
|the Sun (being the source of life on this planet) emits monstrous amounts
|of mana of different types and we humans can only handle certain types?
And if the sun were to go through various cycles of about...oooo, say 15000
years.....
Possible, but I still prefer the gaia-sphere concept...
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 11:35:00 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Mana Cycles ? Merlin (the NBC movie)
In-Reply-To: <19980502.202757.5182.12.dghost@****.com> from "Alfredo B
Alves"
at May 2, 98 08:27:55 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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And verily, did Alfredo B Alves hastily scribble thusly...
|
|I don't think there are any spoilers (If you've seen the movie you'll
|know where I got my inspiration), but just in case ...
|I
|'
|l
|l
|
|i
|n
|c
|l
|u
|d
|e
|
|s
|o
|m
|e
|
|s
|p
|o
|i
|l
|e
|r
|
|s
|p
|a
|c
|e
|:)
|
|Here's the idea: what if the mana cycles were induced/fluctuated by our
|belief in magic? I think this is a neat idea and would mean that the
|current mana spike wasn't caused by the Great Ghost Dance but rather by
|how quickly information spread about it... this will probably mean that
|it will be alot less unlikely that a mana downswing will occur (but not
|impossible) So what started the return of magic? The new agers with
|there beliefs in power pyramids/crystals, the tarot, etcetera. Oh well
|tell me what ya think :)
I think your mentioning the mana downswing kills your argument basically.
How could the magic drop if it was based on belief, when everyone in the 4th
world would be committed to a loony bin if they did disbelieve in magic.
After all, it's used by everyone in the population on one level or another,
and it's a tool that forms the basis of their entire society.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 11:40:40 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Munchkinism at it's finest
In-Reply-To: <19980502.202757.5182.11.dghost@****.com> from "Alfredo B
Alves"
at May 2, 98 08:17:55 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did Alfredo B Alves hastily scribble thusly...
|S. Epsilon becomes Zeta (Which marketing may rename Omega since it sounds
|much cooler ;)
At which point the marketting division get fired. Omega is the last word in
cyberware (Pardon the pun), and there are a LOT of other letters to be used
up.
|Speaking of cyber and body index... would cyber increase the body index?
No. Body index reflects the amount of strain your system can withstand based
on the amount of bioware that's screwing your system.
(Bioware draws nutrition from your system, and as it's organic, it could
trigger the immune response... Probably what happens when you have too much)
|I can't see why it would ... I'm just starting down this train of thought
|but ... I think cyber should incur body index (this, btw, would prevent a
|chrome king from loading up on bioware).
Cyber isn't organic, so the immune response would tend to ignore it. And of
course, it doesn't need to be fed.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 05:45:51 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wraith <wraith@************.COM>
Subject: Re: (OT)Gulf war (was: What's on the Trid?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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-----Original Message-----
From: Lander Williams <lander@****.WAVE.CA>
>>I would have been around 12. A bit older than Adam, I think. But only by
>>a couple months! :p I still have a sweatshirt that was supposed to be a
>>memorial to the Gulf war.
>
>even at '90, i would still have been in Hs.. 10? 12? i feel old now, thanks
>guys <g>
I'm going to have to go with Jett on this one....I was in 6th grade if I
remember correctly...that would put me at what, 11?
Wraith
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 11:47:35 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] Sinclair QL (was Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro
In-Reply-To: <199805040827.KAA19484@****2.xs4all.nl> from "Gurth" at May
4,
98 10:28:36 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did Gurth hastily scribble thusly...
|Already got one -- but I haven't used it in years because those damn
|modern keyboards have too little text on them :) (Any self-respecting
|(ex-)Spectrum-user should know what I mean...)
You could always type things in in 128K mode...
Or remember that J"" is all you need to load a 48K game...
:)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 11:49:28 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
In-Reply-To: <199805040827.KAA19490@****2.xs4all.nl> from "Gurth" at May
4,
98 10:28:36 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did Gurth hastily scribble thusly...
|I wasn't paying too much attention to the news when that one started...
|(For the record, I was about 6.)
SIX!?
Oh my aching bones...
I was 22 when it started.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 05:41:44 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Extreme Essence Reduction (LONG)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980503202126.17770A-100000@*****>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> Try to make a correlation with Christian Science, if you will. (I myself
> am not a Christian Scientist, and am not completely versed in the
> religion's theology, so if I'm wrong, correct me) One of the aspects of
> belief in Christian Science, as far as I understand it, involves the
> refusal of modern medical techniques; instead, prayer and religious
> methods are used. There have been Supreme Court cases involving charges of
> parental negligence against Christian Scientists when a child has died
> because they refused to take the child to the hospital, instead calling in
> a spiritual healer. (It was ruled that they were not negligent, btw) Now,
> I don't think a Christian Scientist would allow one medical procedure
> which is more invasive than another due to the fact that they know that
> 'it won't affect my piety any more'.
Accually my girlfriend is a Christian Scientist and I can tell you that it
would be a very very rare occurence. Christian Scientists abhore
intrducing forgen material into thier bodies. As a rule they do not accept
Modern Medical practices because they believe in personal faith healing,
in their view the physical world does not exist and it can only harm you
if you let it.
I see Christian Sciencetests as being some of the first religions to
embrace Magic. The awakening will be sceen as a step towards shedding the
techonological crutches of moder socity. The repeated haeling of people
with magic, a mandate that they are right about matter's impotance. :) Has
anyone else broght any of the more minor religions into SR? I'm thinking
Mormans wouldn't have much problem with widespread magic as they have a
very mystical religion. Any others?
Czar(no flame wars PLEASE!)Eggbert
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Czar Eggbert
Ruler, Dark Side of the Moon.
homepage: http://travel.to/czareggbert.empire
mailto: czregbrt@*********.edu
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"I lived my life in a ship in a bottle in a world in a glass jar..."
-Mike Fontaine
"CRACK! SMASH! SHATTER!"
-Helen Stunkard
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 07:49:38 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jerry Hill <agh60070@*******.CC.UCF.EDU>
Subject: Re: What is a CF?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> According to Rigger 2 (page 24), 1 CF is about 1/8th cubic meter, IOW a
> volume of .5 x .5 x .5 m.
I always thought a CF was a cubic foot. (Which should come out to be between
1/8 and 1/9 of a cubic meter).
Jerry Hill
--------------------------------------------
'Rome wasn't built in a day
but it didn't take long to go up in flames'
- Electric Hellfire Club
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 07:57:31 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Airwasp <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Mother Russia
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 5/4/98 12:51:39 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
sthanatos@*********.COM writes:
> There is little to no printed information available about Russia or Eastern
> Europe out there! Does anyone know of a place where I could obtain some
> info on Russia in the 2050s? I'm trying to flesh out one of my characters.
What is known about Russia (now the CIS) and Eastern Europe is this roughly.
1. The nations involved by now are just beginning to recovery from the
EuroWars of the 2020's and 2030's.
2. Most of what were the satellite Warsaw Pact countries are in a bad shape
still.
3. A good chunk of Siberia and the East Coast of currently Russia separated
under "Awakened" forces (read metahumans and the like). Though there is not
much information on that part of the world.
4. There is some information in the BBB, and some more in the London and
Germany sourcebooks, beyond that there is very little about it.
Perhaps there is someone on the list who knows someone who is both Russian and
plays SR, or has had a campaign heavily into Russia and the East Bloc Nations.
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 08:00:01 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Airwasp <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: What is a CF?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 5/4/98 6:39:42 AM !!!First Boot!!!, nesius@******.COM
writes:
> I have a question to submit to the list. One of my players was looking into
> obtaining a sidecar for his motorcycle to facilitate carrying gear. As he
> looked at the various sizes, he ran into the problem of trying to figure
> out how much gear he could fit into a CF. The basic question we
> have is "what is a CF?" I thought I saw a definition for it once, but
> I cannot locate it. Can anyone help?
Hi Rob,
A CF is a cube that has sides 0.25 meters long. And it is somewhere in the
R2.
Glad to see you are around Rob.
Ciao,
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 08:00:48 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Airwasp <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: What is a CF?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 5/4/98 6:48:34 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU writes:
> It's in Rigger 2, although I can't give you a precise page at the moment
> as I don't have my copy with me.
>
> A CF is a volume 0.5m x 0.5m x 0.5m (or a total of 0.125m^3). Not a
> whole lot really.
>
> I would guess that the boot of my car (or the trunk for the Yan^H^H^H
> Americans) would be about 2-3CF.
>
Sorry Rob, my goober, Geoff is correct.
Mea culpa,
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 09:09:33 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: ASIST assistance?
In-Reply-To: <199805031147.NAA01445@****2.xs4all.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> > As I have said before, ASIST would be the "base code" for all OSs
> > created, the actual OS is more like to be the set of Persona programs
> > (Bod, Sensor, Mask, etc.), but all OSs would be compatible because
> > they're all based on ASIST.
>
> I don't think so... I think it's easier to compare ASIST to something like
> a printer: to use the printer, you need to send it commands _it_ can
...
> What ASIST does (IMHO) is turn the human brain's signals into a
> standarized set of instructions, which can then be turned into signals a
> computer can use by means of an additional interpreter. This interpreter
> could (and likely would) be built into an OS if that OS is designed
> specificaly for working with ASIST signals, but it doesn't mean every OS
> would be compatible just because they can all use ASIST signals. Another
> comparison: both a Mac and a Windows PC can use a mouse. Does that mean
> you can run Mac software under Windows?
Well, that's a bad comparison, since I believe Mac and PC mice have
different sets of signals. (pauses to check...yup, Mac is 4 pin [not
to mention plugging into the keyboard???], PC has more)
Anyway, I agree with the rest of your argument...mostly. ASSIST
translates "brain-code" into "compuspeak". What is the equivilent on
modern computers? Well, using the printer analogy, is the brain the
primary or the periphiral? Let's say it's the peripheral (since
we've all agreed that it is I/O).
Modern: Type instructions into keyboard. Keyboard BIOS handles any
interrupts and passes signals to OS, which translates into CPU
commands.
SR (Hot deck): Think instruction. ASSIST picks up and translates
into MPCP commands.
Thus, in this example, ASSIST does seem to be acting as OS as well as
BIOS. (at least keyboard bios). But let's check output to be sure:
Modern: CPU performs instruction set, which modifies video memory.
This, in turn, is periodically scanned by the video BIOS (well,
there's some sort of firmware driver on a video card) and translated
into commands for an "electron gun", which in turn creates the
picture.
SR (hot Deck): MPCP performs instruction set (including any
interaction with another system on the Matrix), and returns commands,
which are picked up by ASSIST and translated into brain speak.
So in this case the OS isn't really involved. (Although I have no
doubt I missing something...Linix wouldn't burn out monitors this
way...anyone want to help me out?)
Here's a thought though: Why would a deck have an OS? When you
think about it, chips already ARE OS's, just minimally functional
ones. Enough assembler classes have told me that the 68xxx series is
quite different from Intel chips. All OS's on top of this are simply
interfaces...ASSIST removes the need for that interface. Thus,
ASSIST isn't really the OS...because there isn't one.
A Turtle deck, however, would have to have BIOS and OS added.
hmmm...
-=SwiftOne=-
Who should be finishing his research papers
Brett Borger
SwiftOne@***.edu
AAP Techie
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 08:13:41 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
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----------
> From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
> Once upon a time, Lander Williams wrote;
>
> >when was the gulf war again? '92? i was just wrapping up Highschool :)
>
> 91 I think, 90 if not. The years kinda blur. It was before MC23 came
into
> existence (or realized as it were), that was in '92.
Had to be '90, because I remember thinking that it would have been better
for Bush if it came two years later, and thus fresh in the minds of the
voters. Oh, and I was in 7th grade (sorta) when it happened.
***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
"Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn lasts
forever"
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
"Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo the
better part of humor."
aka Ellegon, Working at making Cannon canon
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are crunchy
and good with ketchup."
--------[Geek Code Block]-----------
GED/GSS d- s++:+ a-- C++ W w+ PS+.5 PE- Y+ t+
5+ X+ R*+.5 !tv+ b+.5 DI+ D- G e h !r-- !y+
-------[End Geek Code Block]-------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 09:27:07 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alex van der Kleut <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Eurowars
In-Reply-To: <199805012330.SAA218392@****.missouri.edu>
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At 06:31 PM 5/1/98 -0500, Stephen Delear wrote:
>>But the big reason they don't do carriers is the paint. All of that cool
>>RAM and paint they use to bounce radar reacts BADLY to sea air. All of the
>>salt content and stuff corrodes after a few weeks. Same thing happened to
>>the Navy's newest F18 (E/F?). The paint all caused it to corrode. But I
>>think that they just fixed it with the newest batch 6 months ago (it was
>>about 2 years ago that I went to McDonnel Douglas and checked out their
>>plant). They will be using the new type on the F22, which isn't quite as
>>stealthy as the F177, but pretty close.
>
>F22? I was under the impression that it was a classified aircraft. Then
>again I could be thinking of a different aircraft.
>
>SteveD
Nope. Kind of hard to keep something clasified when they call 50 brass from
the Pentagon and 100 reporters to announce the plane, along with "America"
playing in the background and fireworks exploding overhead! :) The F-22 was
never a "black" program, just certain parts of it are classified. There are
some good articles in Pop Sci on it.
Basicallt this is the replacement for the F15. Faster, more agile, same
load, and a lot stealthier. But not so completely stealthy that they wanted
to keep it quiet. It's supposed to be a front line fighter.
Sommers
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 09:30:31 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alex van der Kleut <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Something Interesting I Must have missed...
In-Reply-To: <c6672cc0.354b5c60@***.com>
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At 01:48 PM 5/2/98 EDT, Ereskanti wrote:
>And then in another book, "Alice" is a running loose presence in the
Matrix...
Alice WAS his wife, but something wierd happened when she was crashed by
the virus and her "consciousness" was uploaded to the new Matrix. Through
the Dragonheart Trilogy she's trying to figure out who caused the Crash, so
she could impart unto him much pain. And they come almost to the point of
saying who caused the Crash and why, but not that there isn't some wiggle
room.
Sommers
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 09:27:33 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Radiation and Magic
In-Reply-To: <19980502.202757.5182.9.dghost@****.com> from "Alfredo B
Alves"
at May 2, 98 07:44:04 pm
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>
> What if radiation and magic are the same or related?
> I got this idea after reading the threads about mages in space... what if
> the Sun (being the source of life on this planet) emits monstrous amounts
> of mana of different types and we humans can only handle certain types?
> The Ozone layer acts as a ward to block off the mana that we can't handle
> or at least most of it ... (gee, I hope they patched those holes in the
> ozone layer ...) The insanity/death would be caused by creating a link
> for the unhealthy mana to feed straight into the mage's brain. This
> would mean that there is an astral plane outside the earth and all that
> would be needed to create a safe enviroment for mages in space would be
> to recreate the magical properties of the ozone ... (which shouldn't be
> easy by any means) and would also explain spirits with "an affinity to
> solar fire". It's a stretch, but if you don't stretch you'll never go
> anywher :)
>
Check out the Big D's will. I don't have the page number handy, but in
there he left a chunk of cash to a scientist researching "The relation
ship between nuclear power and mana" or some such. Perhaps its not
a big as stretch as you think. :)
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 09:42:39 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question) [semi-OT]
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Lehlan Decker wrote:
[linux stuff snipped to GridSec's eternal delight... :-) ]
>> >but I still have to have a copy of Win95 for games, and MS Office.
>>
>> You should try grabbing a copy of StarOffice (well, if you've got
>[snip]
>> Of course, I use HTML for all my word processing needs (vi
>> forever! :-), so I haven't used the word processor much. I have used
>> the spreadsheet to draw up graphs of dice combos though... :-)
>>
>StarOffice is nice. But how does it compare to Office 97?
>(I haven't messed with it in a long while, something for me to mess
>with in my free time :)).
Don't use O97. Or O95, for that matter. Well, apart from MS-Access,
but that's not what we're talking about...
>Vi ick! Give me emacs any day. :)
Not that it matters that much anymore - have you ever seen Emacs
running nvi in a window, running emacs in a window? :-)
[more linux stuff snipped]
>> >The masses
>> >want somebody to call when it breaks, and to be able to wonder
>> >down the store and by their programs. I don't see this changing even
>> >by 2050. This is all IMHO of course.
>>
>> No, they don't want somebody to *call*, they want somebody to *blame*
>> when they have to explain to their boss why something broke/isn't
>> on schedule.
>
>Same difference. Besides why else do people actually buy software vs
>"stealing" it? So they can call the company complain, and ask questions.
I buy software because I can. When I had no source of income, sure
I copied games - $80 CDN is pretty hefty for a game (WCII, IIRC).
Now that I have money, I buy them (when I think I have time to spend
playing them, which isn't often).
>I suppose this Topic is wondering fairly far. But I guess you have
>to see the parallels today, if your going to draw the conclusions
>forward to 2050. I see the crash, and the resultant "standards" as FASA's
>way of leveling the playing field, and leaving out the tech details.
>It may or may not have a basis in reality. This is all IMHO of course.
Yeah - FASA just wiped out computer tech because they couldn't
predict where it would go.
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 09:51:37 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alex van der Kleut <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mother Russia
In-Reply-To: <7de18ddc.354dad2c@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:57 AM 5/4/98 EDT, Airwasp wrote:
>In a message dated 5/4/98 12:51:39 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
>sthanatos@*********.COM writes:
>
>> There is little to no printed information available about Russia or Eastern
>> Europe out there! Does anyone know of a place where I could obtain some
>> info on Russia in the 2050s? I'm trying to flesh out one of my characters.
>
>What is known about Russia (now the CIS) and Eastern Europe is this roughly.
>
>1. The nations involved by now are just beginning to recovery from the
>EuroWars of the 2020's and 2030's.
>
>2. Most of what were the satellite Warsaw Pact countries are in a bad shape
>still.
>
>3. A good chunk of Siberia and the East Coast of currently Russia separated
>under "Awakened" forces (read metahumans and the like). Though there is not
>much information on that part of the world.
>
>4. There is some information in the BBB, and some more in the London and
>Germany sourcebooks, beyond that there is very little about it.
>
There is a good couple of pages on the Russian Mob in the Underworld
Sourecbook. I think that there was a little bit of information in it about
Russian history too. Also this month (in the US) Target:Smugglers is coming
out. One of the sections is about Vladivostok. And there is some stuff in
Mob War about one of the corps (can't remember which one) moving their HQ
to Russia. I haven't finished reading it yet, but there is probably some
stuff in there about Russia too. If not, there will be in the new Corporate
guide coming out later this year, for the corp that is now in Russia.
Sommers
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 09:53:08 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: ASIST assistance?
In-Reply-To: <1A0A9240E8@**.opp.psu.edu> from "Brett Borger" at May 1,
98 07:19:54 pm
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<SNIP>
> BIOS: Basic Input/Output System (?). Basically it's responsible for
> handling signals from hardware and letting the CPU access them IIRC.
> Naturally, software drivers or additional hardware drivers are needed
> for most things anyway. This is all working off of memory from
> reading too many manuals when I was younger so anyone with more
> up-to-date knowledge refresh me.
>
> > the ASIST being part of the BIOS, but I don't know that I'd say that
> > it is the BIOS. You can take the ASIST out of a cyberdeck, slap a
> > monitor and a keyboard on it, and you have a turtle. You take the
> > BIOS out of a PC, and you've got an useless assembly of glass,
> > plastic, and metal.
>
> ACtually, I have a book "101 things to do with a dead computer".
> Pretty funny. My favorite is turning the monitor into a fishtank.
>
Yes! Boat anchors are also a valid use.
> But to get to your point, I'd say that the differences between the
> hardware of a Turtle and a 'deck go beyond running ASIST...they work
> on different principles. Sadly, I have nothing to back me up.
> Anyone want to help me out?
>
Just my interpretation of course. A turtle, would be similiar
to our modern day desktops. You aren't plugged in, your still
typing, moving some sort of pointer etc.
Decking seems to be based on differing principals then modern
day computers. There the ASIST is your Input/Output, and the MPCP
translate this into the matrix. But here you have access to heardware
memory, task pools, etc. This is why your so much faster when decking
and of course why IC can fry you. I don't see decks as having an OS
per se. An OS is just an abstraction, so you or I don't have to deal
directly with the computer hardware. I'm thinking ASIST does away
this, or it and the MPCP replace the concept.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 10:08:18 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Free" Software (was: Euro question) [semi-OT]
In-Reply-To:
<cÊ%a=GOVMT.CANADA%p=GC+EC%lìNCR_EXCH2-980504134239Z-90951@***.ncr.ec.gc.ca>
from "Ojaste,James
[NCR]" at May 4, 98 09:42:39 am
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>
> Lehlan Decker wrote:
> >Vi ick! Give me emacs any day. :)
>
> Not that it matters that much anymore - have you ever seen Emacs
> running nvi in a window, running emacs in a window? :-)
>
Yep, you can do almost anything with emacs, isn't it scary. The only
reason I know vi at all, is so I can edit files, so I can install
emacs on whatever I'm on. :)
<SNIP>
> >I suppose this Topic is wondering fairly far. But I guess you have
> >to see the parallels today, if your going to draw the conclusions
> >forward to 2050. I see the crash, and the resultant "standards" as
FASA's
> >way of leveling the playing field, and leaving out the tech details.
> >It may or may not have a basis in reality. This is all IMHO of course.
>
> Yeah - FASA just wiped out computer tech because they couldn't
> predict where it would go.
>
You got it. And honestly I can't blame them. I work in the industry (as
it seems alot of us do), and keeping up with the day to day stuff is
tough, must less planning a year or five ahead.
Heh..that is why I've kinda been laughing at the latest computer threads.
I don't think FASA meant for there to be a straight correlation between
decks and modern day hardware. Sometimes things are just plot hooks,
and abstraction. :) STill it makes the day go faster.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 10:47:09 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, Spike wrote;
>And verily, did Gurth hastily scribble thusly...
>|I wasn't paying too much attention to the news when that one started...
>|(For the record, I was about 6.)
>
>SIX!?
>Oh my aching bones...
>I was 22 when it started.
&
Once upon a time, Gurth wrote;
>The second Gulf War was 1990-91 (the first being the Iran-Iraq war from
1980-88).
Ok now I can place it. It started in '90 and I'm one year younger than
the Spike baby so that would put me... Damn I still can't figure out my
age. B>]#
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 10:08:17 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sheldon Rose <scrose@****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Re: Munchkinism at it's finest
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Spike wrote:
>
> |Speaking of cyber and body index... would cyber increase the body index?
> No. Body index reflects the amount of strain your system can withstand based
> on the amount of bioware that's screwing your system.
> (Bioware draws nutrition from your system, and as it's organic, it could
> trigger the immune response... Probably what happens when you have too much)
No it does not trigger the imune system. IMO the factor of overstress
that kills you dead without question is sufficent.
> |I can't see why it would ... I'm just starting down this train of thought
> |but ... I think cyber should incur body index (this, btw, would prevent a
> |chrome king from loading up on bioware).
I would have to disagree with this I would rather see someone with
muscle augmentation 4 and "Normal or alpha grade cyber" Than someone
doing like was done with with massive amounts of Delta ware. IE Jett and
creations like that... IMO it makes more sense to this for a corp and/or
other organization to do this than spending a great deal more for delta
grade cyber...
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 10:11:22 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sheldon Rose <scrose@****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Spike wrote:
>
> And verily, did Gurth hastily scribble thusly...
> |I wasn't paying too much attention to the news when that one started...
> |(For the record, I was about 6.)
>
> SIX!?
> Oh my aching bones...
> I was 22 when it started.
I was even older than that 25 geeze that makes me feel old.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 11:17:11 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Craig J Wilhelm Jr <craigjwjr@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: Harleys and Pumpguns
In-Reply-To: <9805040935.AA00962@********.ai.fh-nuernberg.de>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On 05:35 AM 5/4/98 , Fred Stoessel wrote:
>Hoi. I just read the last entry and now have question concerning bikes. A
player in my party is driving a
>harley scorpion. Now he wants to transport his deck or his assault shotgun
under the seat. Is this possible?
You mean in the little storage thing under the seat? I dunno about the
deck, just how big are cyberdecks? If you say about the size of a standard
IBM keyboard, no dice, just a little too long. As for the shotgun, way too
long. Even with a foldong stock it'll still run around 24"-26" long.
Craig "Knee Deep in the Blood of Swine" Wilhelm
Afterlife Incorperated,
Quality Carnage at Affordable Prices.
UIN: 1864690
-------------BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
v3.12
GAT/$ d- s+:+ a- C+++ U--- P+ L- E-- W++ N++
o K- w+ O> !M-- !V PS+ PE Y+ PGP++ t--- 5+++
X-- R++ tv b++ DI-- D+(Q2++) G++ e++ h* r y++**
--------------END GEEK CODE BLOCK--------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 11:20:30 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Corps care about money,
not people (was Re: [OT] Euro question)
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Wordman wrote:
>While making a point almost unrelated to the one I'm now making, James
>Ojaste listed some possible strategies for corps dealing with an
>encroaching freeware operating system being released, writing:
>
>> Mega #1 ties things up
>> legally while Mega #2 writes virii to combat the OS directly, while
>> Mega #3 kills the author(s) to discourage further development.
>
>Mega #4 hires the writers to build the product for them (or keep it
>perpetually unreleased and eventually move the writers into something
>else). Mega #4 would probably win, unless the writers were _extremely_
>idealistic.
[snip]
I discounted this, since we were talking about a situation like the
current-day situation between two OSes that GridSec doesn't want me
to mention, but one of which is corp-owned and the other is freely
available and for which the developers *are* idealistic. The
question, as I saw it, was "how does the corp deal with the OS,
presuming that they can't buy it".
>Mega #3, who went for killing the authors, wouldn't last long. Talent and
>training are very hard to find; you don't get ahead by wasting people who
>demonstrate both. Save murder as a way of solving problems for people who
>care about honor and vengence and so on, like the Mob. Corps care about
>money, not people. Sometimes, its smart for a corp to kill, but usually
>cash will solve the problem with a lot less fuss.
Yeah. Since we were discussing idealists (and even fanatics), I
proferred that solution (1 out of 3 ain't bad). The best solution
by far is to hire the author(s), but not everybody wants to become
a wageslave...
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 12:09:52 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Munchkinism at it's finest
In-Reply-To: <354DD9E1.CF25397F@****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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> > No. Body index reflects the amount of strain your system can withstand based
> > on the amount of bioware that's screwing your system.
> > (Bioware draws nutrition from your system, and as it's organic, it could
> > trigger the immune response... Probably what happens when you have too much)
>
> No it does not trigger the imune system. IMO the factor of overstress
> that kills you dead without question is sufficent.
But Overstress doesn't kill you dead...it gives you a +1 to all body
tests until you get rid of the excess bioware or raise your body.
Check Shadowtech.
-=SwiftOne=-
Brett Borger
SwiftOne@***.edu
AAP Techie
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 12:08:27 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Cyber and Body Index (was Re: Munchkinism at it's finest)
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Once upon a time, Alfredo B Alves wrote;
>Speaking of cyber and body index... would cyber increase the body index?
>I can't see why it would ... I'm just starting down this train of thought
>but ... I think cyber should incur body index (this, btw, would prevent a
>chrome king from loading up on bioware). I see the cyber as doing more
>"damage" to the aura (or perhaps it would be appropriate to say the
>synchrinicty of the aura) than to the body index... but still raising the
>body index some ... bioware would be the reverse ...what do you think?
Well unless you believe in perpetual motion machines there would be.
Everyone seems to be forgetting that alphaware on up has reduced Essence
cost because of miniaturization and _organic components_. For these
Amazing Discoveries(tm) levels of cyber grades to even exist (and I still
scoff at that) then the "organic component" would constitute more and
more of the cyberware. Non-natural organics are Bioware and would effect
the Body Index. There is no such thing as a free ride.
I would also drop the "no death on the operating table" rule since
if the character wanted to gamble to get all this great stuff he has to
stake something for it.
And what about a Bioware version of cyberpsychosis?
-MC23, who is now thinking about Prometheus Unbound-
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 12:16:14 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: On with the show...
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Once upon a time, The Vagabond wrote;
> "I may not like what you have to say, but I'll defend to the
>death your right to say it."
> -Thomas Jefferson
VOLTAIRE!!!
grumble, grumble, grumble
Now it might have been Jefferson that said, and I paraphrase for not
having the quote,
If I was left with only one right it would be Freedom of Speech, and
with that one I would win back all the others.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed,
briefed, debriefed, or numbered "
-No. 6, The Prisoner
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 12:17:50 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: On with the show...
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Once upon a time, Matb wrote;
>Just don't ever, ever mention grounding through a
>quickeni--AAAaaaauuuuurrgh!
It can't happen but I will now make an exception for going against =
you.
B>]#
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><=
><>
"THAT¹S NOT FAIR!"
"You say that so often. I wonder what your basis for comparison is."
-Sarah and Jareth, Labyrinth
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 12:33:43 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyber and Body Index (was Re: Munchkinism at it's finest)
In-Reply-To: <199805041610.MAA14867@******.mindspring.com>
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> the Body Index. There is no such thing as a free ride.
Tanstaafl
> And what about a Bioware version of cyberpsychosis?
Don't say that, I'm hoping they'll develop bioware hand replacements
> -MC23, who is now thinking about Prometheus Unbound-
-=SwiftOne=-
Who is suffering great pain after four hours of solid typing to pound
out 30 pages for his final papers.
Brett Borger
SwiftOne@***.edu
AAP Techie
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 12:33:37 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: The talks on my Cyberware post.
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Once upon a time, Michael Broadwater wrote;
>I would agree with you except that you changed your definition in the middle
>of the discussion. "Market" and "retail market" are different
things. A
>ham fest is a market, though it may not be a chain of stores. If you keep
>things more consistent, you may avoid another faux pas in the future.
I wouldn't agree with on needing a clarification. In a business use
hamfest and the likes wouldn't be considered or if they were they would
be like speciality niche or secondary market (scavenger even). The true
business definitions I'll leave up to the Business majors and the like.
Anyway I don't agree with it being a faux pas.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
"When _I_ use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful
tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."
-Through the Looking Glass
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 12:35:01 -0400
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From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: The talks on my Cyberware post.
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Once upon a time, Mongoose wrote;
> Personally, I'd expect any SANE munchkin to run in fear of those
>reaction and perception TN penalties, and the karma award penalty. I
>really don't think cybermancy grants a worth while edge,but maybe others
>have found ways to deal with the drawbacks it has on your abilities
>ingenral.
A true Munchkin would forget the drawbacks, unless they could be twisted.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
"Say what you mean, and say it mean!"
-Scraping Foetus off the Wheel, Ramrod
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 17:10:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
In-Reply-To: <199805041448.KAA22391@******.mindspring.com> from "MC23" at
May
4, 98 10:47:09 am
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And verily, did MC23 hastily scribble thusly...
|Ok now I can place it. It started in '90 and I'm one year younger than
|the Spike baby so that would put me... Damn I still can't figure out my
|age. B>]#
I think you'll find you're 31 or 32....
:)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 11:54:25 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sheldon Rose <scrose@****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Re: Munchkinism at it's finest
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Brett Borger wrote:
>
> > > No. Body index reflects the amount of strain your system can withstand
based
> > > on the amount of bioware that's screwing your system.
> > > (Bioware draws nutrition from your system, and as it's organic, it could
> > > trigger the immune response... Probably what happens when you have too
much)
> >
> > No it does not trigger the imune system. IMO the factor of overstress
> > that kills you dead without question is sufficent.
>
> But Overstress doesn't kill you dead...it gives you a +1 to all body
> tests until you get rid of the excess bioware or raise your body.
> Check Shadowtech.
I did and looks pretty dangerous IMO it can will does kill street muscle
just like to much cyber will do the same things. You can only put so
much in before it bites you in the hoop.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 13:13:54 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkinism at it's finest
In-Reply-To: <17529.199805041040@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
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At 11:40 AM 5/4/98 +0100, you wrote:
>(Bioware draws nutrition from your system, and as it's organic, it could
>trigger the immune response... Probably what happens when you have too much)
I don't think so, though perhaps that's part of it. I think what happens
in Body Overstress is what the name suggests: too much is demanded of the
body and it starts to just shut down under the strain.
>Cyber isn't organic, so the immune response would tend to ignore it. And of
>course, it doesn't need to be fed.
Cyber can trigger immune response just like any other foreign body. The
body doesn't know if the intrusion is 'organic' or not, just that it's not
a natural part of it, and so tries to expel it. I've experienced this
personally, with a tonge and a nipple piercing, unfortunately. If it's too
big to remove the traditional ways, the body gradually works it to the
surface and expels it. Cyber though should be made out of materials inert
enough to prevent this...
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 13:21:53 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyber and Body Index (was Re: Munchkinism at it's finest)
In-Reply-To: <199805041610.MAA14867@******.mindspring.com>
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At 12:08 PM 5/4/98 -0400, you wrote:
> Well unless you believe in perpetual motion machines there would be.
>Everyone seems to be forgetting that alphaware on up has reduced Essence
>cost because of miniaturization and _organic components_. For these
>Amazing Discoveries(tm) levels of cyber grades to even exist (and I still
>scoff at that) then the "organic component" would constitute more and
>more of the cyberware. Non-natural organics are Bioware and would effect
>the Body Index. There is no such thing as a free ride.
Yep. And I scoff as well. I'm going to soon be playing in a campaign with
nothing available except what is in the basic rulebook. Never mind three
supplements on cyber, one on weapons, two on magic, ad infinitum, we're
just going to play good old-fashioned Shadowrun like mamma used to bake. :)
> I would also drop the "no death on the operating table" rule since
>if the character wanted to gamble to get all this great stuff he has to
>stake something for it.
Well, I think in the BBB it refers to table deaths being 'rare' in 2050,
which I can agree with. If it wasn't pretty safe, almost no one would risk
it (who could afford it anyway), and it wouldn't be profitable.
losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 10:47:54 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alexia Silverstein <alexia_silverstein@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
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After reading all the comments on this subject during the week, when
we played Shadowrun on Friday, I put my boyfriend, the GM in a
peculiar position when my bodyguard/"escort" wanted to call her City
Official and "convince" him to give her the blueprints to a building
our group had to infiltrate.
The guys in the group (I'm the only female) didn't know what use I
could be to them and I really couldn't do anything useful up till that
point. (not to mention they weren't paying much attention to anything
I was doing Out Of Character, ooc, or In Character, ic.) When my pc
showed up late to the meet the Wolf Shaman asked where I had been and
what I had been doing all this time. It surprised him when I told him
it was none of his business then handed him a copy of the blueprints
to the building. The found out what use I could be...
So, Thanks for the Idea Whoever started this string...(I forget)
ps I guess it was the first time they had a shadowrun that was rated R
and not from Violence...
Alexia
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 13:25:11 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <neon@******.BACKBONE.OLEMISS.EDU>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
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At 11:49 AM 5/4/98 +0100, Spike wrote:
>And verily, did Gurth hastily scribble thusly...
>|I wasn't paying too much attention to the news when that one started...
>|(For the record, I was about 6.)
>
>SIX!?
>Oh my aching bones...
>I was 22 when it started.
>
Spike, you're 40? Gurth was talking about the _first_ gulf war (which was
in '80).
Mike Broadwater
Member of the Blackhand and Dwarven Illuminati
http://www.olemiss.edu/~neon/
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 14:29:15 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
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Once upon a time, Spike wrote;
>And verily, did MC23 hastily scribble thusly...
>|Ok now I can place it. It started in '90 and I'm one year younger than
>|the Spike baby so that would put me... Damn I still can't figure out my
>|age. B>]#
>
>I think you'll find you're 31 or 32....
>:)
Damn, I thought I was just a year younger. No wonder the math didn't
work. It might also have something to do with you being a teenager for 10
years. B>]#
My 29th birthday was yesterday.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Now you know, and knowing is half the battle
- G.I.Joe
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 14:36:07 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
In-Reply-To: <19980504174754.13661.rocketmail@******.yahoomail.com>
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> we played Shadowrun on Friday, I put my boyfriend, the GM in a
> peculiar position when my bodyguard/"escort" wanted to call her City
> Official and "convince" him to give her the blueprints to a building
So I guess the question was whether you convinced your bf in
character or out of character :)
Seriously though, you have one advantage here...he was your bf. My
fiance has nothing to do with my group, and we have a lot of problems
when sex issues come up (which they do, considering we have a love
star(?) among the other players, the female of whom plays a rather
"liberal" character.) This is even before my fiance gets jealous
when she overhears the female role-playing an "encounter". The
others are nasty looking guys, which makes is just as bad.
Sigh.
-=SwiftOne=-
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 12:57:51 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: looking for info
In-Reply-To: <000601bd7733$069e0a60$0101a8c0@********.wave.shaw.ca>
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At 02:02 04/05/98 -0600, you wrote:
>im looking for info on Calgary and area.
>i know its in the NAN, although the SRII manual doesn't seem to know
>which area its in <one map says algonquin <sp>-manitou, another
>says.. somewhere else.. dont remember off hand>
Dead town, IMO. Most of Alberta is too rural to survive properly when
'artificial' food comes into play big time. The only thing that could
still bring it enough money to keep Alberta afloat is the oil industry, if
it hasn't died by then. Do the experts have any guesses on when those oil
sands up north will run out at the current rate we're going?
>anyways.. i looked through a couple of the NAN books, and couldn't
>find any reference. Ill grant that i was doing so in a store, where browsing
>is frowned upon, so i couldn't take my time. *IS* there any info in said
>books,
>or somewhere on the 'net, or should i look into that as something to submit
>(G)
I don't have either of the NAN books myself. I assume you're in Calgary --
last time I was up there Sentry Box had both NAN books in the used section.
Of course, that was several months ago, so who knows. I've never seen
anything for Calgary on the net, although I have considered doing it
myself, but certainly don't have the time now :/
-Adam J
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 12:16:13 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Vagabond <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Harleys and Pumpguns
Content-Type: text/plain
[snip can I put my assault shotgun or deck under by Harley's seat?]
> You mean in the little storage thing under the seat? I dunno
about the
>deck, just how big are cyberdecks? If you say about the size of a
standard
>IBM keyboard, no dice, just a little too long. As for the shotgun, way
too
>long. Even with a foldong stock it'll still run around 24"-26" long.
Just how long do think the seat on a Harley is? We're not exactly
talking about a bicycle seat...
According to the now-outdated Rigger Black Book, the Scorpion has 2
CF under the seat(in Rigger 2, it doesn't give any storage capacity
stats- in fact, in RBB the Scorpion is made out to be more of a racing
bike, and in R2 it's made out to be more like the 'classic' Harley).
By R2's standards, I would say he could fit a deck under there OR a
Remington Roomsweeper(or some other kind of *very* sawed-off shotgun),
but not an *assault* Shotgun.
But ultimatly, it's you- the GM's- decision.
-Vagabond
"Under wandering stars I've grown"
________________________________________________________
<nomad74@*******.com> <ICQ 4297972>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 13:16:39 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lander Williams <lander@****.WAVE.CA>
Subject: Re: looking for info
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>At 02:02 04/05/98 -0600, you wrote:
>>im looking for info on Calgary and area.
>>i know its in the NAN, although the SRII manual doesn't seem to know
>>which area its in <one map says algonquin <sp>-manitou, another
>>says.. somewhere else.. dont remember off hand>
>Dead town, IMO. Most of Alberta is too rural to survive properly when
>'artificial' food comes into play big time. The only thing that could
>still bring it enough money to keep Alberta afloat is the oil industry, if
>it hasn't died by then. Do the experts have any guesses on when those oil
>sands up north will run out at the current rate we're going?
no idea.. never really looked into it. Calgary does have more to it than
just
agriculture and oil, tho id be hard pressed to give any GOOD examples. :)
>I don't have either of the NAN books myself. I assume you're in Calgary --
yeah.. lived here most of my life, and i still dont klnow much about its
industry
>last time I was up there Sentry Box had both NAN books in the used section.
> Of course, that was several months ago, so who knows. I've never seen
>anything for Calgary on the net, although I have considered doing it
>myself, but certainly don't have the time now :/
ill check out the NAN books more thoroughly.. i live near Sentry Box, so
thats not
hard. If i dont find anything, im gonna look into doing something about
that, if anyone
wants to help :)
i figure that calgary would still be around, just not as 'industrial' or
'commercial' as
it is now. There are all sortsa 'spiritual' things about it.. one of the
reasons it always
gets a lot of supernatural attention in other RPGS (speciffically Beyond the
Supernatural
and Rifts), so shamantic mages might do stuff around here. And because its
quite out of
the way, it could make for decent secure areas for corp research.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 12:18:20 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Vagabond <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: On with the show...
Content-Type: text/plain
>Once upon a time, The Vagabond wrote;
>
>> "I may not like what you have to say, but I'll defend to the
>>death your right to say it."
>> -Thomas Jefferson
>
>VOLTAIRE!!!
>
>
>grumble, grumble, grumble
>
>Now it might have been Jefferson that said, and I paraphrase for not
>having the quote,
> If I was left with only one right it would be Freedom of Speech,
and
>with that one I would win back all the others.
Hey, it was in my American History book. Don't blame me, blame the
pooblick edjukashun sistym.
-Vagabond
"Under wandering stars I've grown"
________________________________________________________
<nomad74@*******.com> <ICQ 4297972>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 15:31:50 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Geoff Morochnick <bodiam@**********.COM>
Organization: Heaven, Inc.
Subject: Re: looking for info
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> im looking for info on Calgary and area.
> i know its in the NAN, although the SRII manual doesn't seem to know
> which area its in <one map says algonquin <sp>-manitou, another
> says.. somewhere else.. dont remember off hand>
>
Well, the big map at the back of the BBB says it's Algonkian-Manitou, though it
is fairly close to the Athabascan Council and Salish-Sidhe.
--
Stonebow
"A milion years?" persisted the jeering old man with keen sadistic zest.
"A half million? The frog is is almost 500 million years old.Could
you really say, with much certainty, that America, with all it's
strength and prosperity, with it's fighting man that is second to
none and with it's standard of living that is the highest in the
world, will last as long as... the frog?"
Joseph Heller, Catch-22
bodiam@**********.com
http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/8427
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 13:52:35 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lander Williams <lander@****.WAVE.CA>
Subject: Re: looking for info
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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>> im looking for info on Calgary and area.
>> i know its in the NAN, although the SRII manual doesn't seem to know
>> which area its in <one map says algonquin <sp>-manitou, another
>> says.. somewhere else.. dont remember off hand>
>Well, the big map at the back of the BBB says it's Algonkian-Manitou,
though it
>is fairly close to the Athabascan Council and Salish-Sidhe.
yeah, but the Matrix Chapter RTG Map puts it in the Sioux Nation..
lander@****.wave.ca
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 13:58:34 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Re: What is a CF?
In-Reply-To: <004b01bd7752$b9903020$50f2f4cd@****>
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Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> > According to Rigger 2 (page 24), 1 CF is about 1/8th cubic meter, IOW a
> > volume of .5 x .5 x .5 m.
> I always thought a CF was a cubic foot.
Naw..CF stands for Cargo Factor...WHich until Rigger2 had no actual
measurement or direct volume relationship..
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
Kind of a bummer. Gettin' your butt kicked by a dead guy.
- Lt Col McQueen
Understanding is a three edged sword. - Kosh
What do Klingons dream about?
Things that would send cold chills
down your spine...It is better you
did not know.
- Major Norece to Commander Worf
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 13:09:26 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alexia Silverstein <alexia_silverstein@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---Swift One wrote:
<snip>
> So I guess the question was whether you convinced your bf in
> character or out of character :)
Well, it was like one of those hokey movies where they head towards
the hot tub and they cut to the next scene where someone's driving a
bus... *shrug* Oh well...
> This is even before my fiance gets jealous
> when she overhears the female role-playing an "encounter".
I might suggest 'bout your fiance that you should tell her you'll act
out those scenes later with her. Or that you wish it were her or
something.
Alexia
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 08:37:37 +1200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: Extreme Essence Reduction (LONG)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Quoth Czar Eggbert (2242 4-5-98):
>> Try to make a correlation with Christian Science, if you will. (I
myself
>> am not a Christian Scientist, and am not completely versed in the
>> religion's theology, so if I'm wrong, correct me) One of the aspects
of
>> belief in Christian Science, as far as I understand it, involves the
>> refusal of modern medical techniques; instead, prayer and religious
>> methods are used. There have been Supreme Court cases involving
charges of
>> parental negligence against Christian Scientists when a child has
died
>> because they refused to take the child to the hospital, instead
calling in
>> a spiritual healer. (It was ruled that they were not negligent, btw)
Now,
>> I don't think a Christian Scientist would allow one medical procedure
>> which is more invasive than another due to the fact that they know
that
>> 'it won't affect my piety any more'.
>
>Accually my girlfriend is a Christian Scientist and I can tell you that
it
>would be a very very rare occurence. Christian Scientists abhore
>intrducing forgen material into thier bodies. As a rule they do not
accept
>Modern Medical practices because they believe in personal faith
healing,
>in their view the physical world does not exist and it can only harm
you
>if you let it.
>
>I see Christian Sciencetests as being some of the first religions to
>embrace Magic. The awakening will be sceen as a step towards shedding
the
>techonological crutches of moder socity. The repeated haeling of people
>with magic, a mandate that they are right about matter's impotance. :)
Has
>anyone else broght any of the more minor religions into SR? I'm
thinking
>Mormans wouldn't have much problem with widespread magic as they have a
>very mystical religion. Any others?
From what I remember from skimming NAN 1 (Salt Lake City's in the Ute
Nation, IIRC), the Saints were distrustful of most magic, (though they
did use things like Stimulation for educational purposes - 'feeling' the
stresses on a bridge, etc).
Danyel Woods
9604801@********.ac.nz
'Are you deliberately trying to drive me insane?'
'The universe is already mad. Anything else would be
redundant.'
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 17:00:27 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Philippe Garneau <aaa302@*****.ULAVAL.CA>
Subject: Re: looking for info
MIME-Version: 1.0
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-----Message d'origine-----
De : Lander Williams <lander@****.WAVE.CA>
À : SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Date : 4 mai, 1998 15:18
Objet : Re: looking for info
>>At 02:02 04/05/98 -0600, you wrote:
>>>im looking for info on Calgary and area.
>>>i know its in the NAN, although the SRII manual doesn't seem to know
>>>which area its in <one map says algonquin <sp>-manitou, another
>>>says.. somewhere else.. dont remember off hand>
>
>>Dead town, IMO. Most of Alberta is too rural to survive properly when
>>'artificial' food comes into play big time. The only thing that could
>>still bring it enough money to keep Alberta afloat is the oil industry, if
>>it hasn't died by then. Do the experts have any guesses on when those oil
>>sands up north will run out at the current rate we're going?
The tar sands, if i remember correctly, are mainly located in the
Northwestern region of Alberta, which is in the territory of the Athabascan
council (which main export is petrolium products, as a matter of fact,
though certainly more from Alaska than from the Alberta fields). As a
note, Edmonton is located in the Athabaskan council too. The tar sands
fields have begun to be exploited in the recent years, and as the collecting
process is quite complicated (and slow), I would expect that a substancial
portion of the ressources are still unexploited in the 2050s. I would say
the same about the Albertan natural gas resources.
As for Alberta agriculture, I read somewhere in the NAN books that the
Awakening (or the Great Ghost Dance)have brought even more extreme weather
patterns in the Native lands, so rural life must be even more difficult.
_____________________________________________________
Philippe Garneau, a.k.a Filou
Bachelier en Sciences, Microbiologie
Godzilla lives again! -> Memorial Day, 1998
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 22:21:43 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Munchkinism at it's finest
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980504012059.2197773e@**********.com> from
"losthalo"
at May 4, 98 01:13:54 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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And verily, did losthalo hastily scribble thusly...
|Cyber can trigger immune response just like any other foreign body. The
|body doesn't know if the intrusion is 'organic' or not, just that it's not
|a natural part of it, and so tries to expel it.
But some inorganic substances totally fool the immune system into ignoring
them.
Glass is one, and I imagine whatever plastics/polimers/metals are used in
cyber offer the same characteristic.
I've experienced this
|personally, with a tonge and a nipple piercing, unfortunately. If it's too
|big to remove the traditional ways, the body gradually works it to the
|surface and expels it. Cyber though should be made out of materials inert
|enough to prevent this...
Exactly.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 22:24:25 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
In-Reply-To: <199805041830.OAA21815@******.mindspring.com> from "MC23" at
May
4, 98 02:29:15 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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And verily, did MC23 hastily scribble thusly...
|Damn, I thought I was just a year younger. No wonder the math didn't
|work. It might also have something to do with you being a teenager for 10
|years. B>]#
|My 29th birthday was yesterday.
Ooops. Well, I always said I was crap at maths, and for some reason, I read
it as me being younger than you....
:)
Besides, you VERY close to being 2 years younger...
I'm 31 in June.... Or is that 24 again, and again, and again?
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 22:25:49 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980504132511.007992e0@******.backbone.olemiss.edu> from
"Michael Broadwater" at May 4, 98 01:25:11 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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And verily, did Michael Broadwater hastily scribble thusly...
|Spike, you're 40? Gurth was talking about the _first_ gulf war (which was
|in '80).
Eh? That wasn't CALLED the Gulf War. That was the Iran/Iraq war.
Please! I'm old enough as it is without people making me 10 years older!
:)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 14:39:53 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <dhinkley@****host.efn.org>
From: David Hinkley <dhinkley@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: (OT)Gulf war (was: What's on the Trid?)
In-Reply-To: <00c801bd7731$cd2e2c20$0101a8c0@********.wave.shaw.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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On 4 May 98 at 1:54, Lander Williams wrote:
> >> >when was the gulf war again? '92? i was just wrapping up Highschool :)
> >
> >I would have been around 12. A bit older than Adam, I think. But only by
> >a couple months! :p I still have a sweatshirt that was supposed to be a
> >memorial to the Gulf war.
> >
> >--Jett
>
>
> even at '90, i would still have been in Hs.. 10? 12? i feel old now,
> thanks guys <g>
You feel old, I was in 5th grade when Kennedy was shot. In training
at Fort Benning when Siagon fell and out of the Army by the Gulf War.
David Hinkley
dhinkley@***.org
====================================================
Those who are too intelligent to engage in politics
are punished by being governed by those who are not
--Plato
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 17:37:52 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, Spike wrote;
>Besides, you VERY close to being 2 years younger...
>I'm 31 in June.... Or is that 24 again, and again, and again?
Yep, or in my case it's now 23+2x3 and next year it's 2x3x5.
B>]#
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 14:36:36 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: ASIST assistance?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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----------
> From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: ASIST assistance?
> Date: Monday, May 04, 1998 2:09 AM
>
> Anyway, I agree with the rest of your argument...mostly. ASSIST
> translates "brain-code" into "compuspeak". What is the
equivilent on
> modern computers? Well, using the printer analogy, is the brain the
> primary or the periphiral? Let's say it's the peripheral (since
> we've all agreed that it is I/O).
>
> Modern: Type instructions into keyboard. Keyboard BIOS handles any
> interrupts and passes signals to OS, which translates into CPU
> commands.
>
> SR (Hot deck): Think instruction. ASSIST picks up and translates
> into MPCP commands.
>
> Thus, in this example, ASSIST does seem to be acting as OS as well as
> BIOS. (at least keyboard bios). But let's check output to be sure:
>
The flaw I'm seeing in this is that while ASIST does communicate various
commands to the the MPCP from the user's POV, there are things an OS does
that ASIST doesn't. Like memory allocation and management. The
"Artificial Sensory Induction System", but it's very name, is not likely to
do that sort of thing.
> Modern: CPU performs instruction set, which modifies video memory.
> This, in turn, is periodically scanned by the video BIOS (well,
> there's some sort of firmware driver on a video card) and translated
> into commands for an "electron gun", which in turn creates the
> picture.
>
> SR (hot Deck): MPCP performs instruction set (including any
> interaction with another system on the Matrix), and returns commands,
> which are picked up by ASSIST and translated into brain speak.
>
> So in this case the OS isn't really involved. (Although I have no
> doubt I missing something...Linix wouldn't burn out monitors this
> way...anyone want to help me out?)
>
That sounds fine as far as I know...
> Here's a thought though: Why would a deck have an OS? When you
> think about it, chips already ARE OS's, just minimally functional
> ones. Enough assembler classes have told me that the 68xxx series is
> quite different from Intel chips. All OS's on top of this are simply
> interfaces...ASSIST removes the need for that interface. Thus,
> ASSIST isn't really the OS...because there isn't one.
>
> A Turtle deck, however, would have to have BIOS and OS added.
> hmmm...
>
You're talking about the differences between machine code and the fluffy
interface that you get with MacOS and Win95, if I'm correct? Dunno... I
haven't taken that many in depth computer courses. I do know that there's
an OS on the MPCP, just because the BBB says there is. What use the deck
is in that situation is beyond me. But that's what it says. I suppose it
has to be able to manage the the allocation of active memory and storage
memory. I do like to think of it in the following terms, though.
If I disconnect my monitor, my mouse, and/or my keyboard, my computer will
still work. The usability is a little hindered, but the computer will
continue to function just splendidly nonetheless. I have had to do stuff
with one of those three missing, so it is possible. Just bloody difficult.
If I cripple Windows 95 and reboot, my computer has the ability to run
BIOS, and then promptly sit on it's hands and do nothing. It doesn't work.
If I turn off my simsense rig, aka my Artificial Sensory Induction System,
aka my ASIST, according to VR2.0, I now have a turtle or tortoise, or
whatever you want to call it. The OS is in the MPCP, so I don't need to
worry about it. Take out the MPCP, and I'd be screwed, but I can use my
deck without the ASIST interface provided I have an alternative I/O
resource available. I'd have to dig my keyboard and monitor out of storage
and deck like that, but it is still possible.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 14:45:47 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <dhinkley@****host.efn.org>
From: David Hinkley <dhinkley@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: Harleys and Pumpguns
In-Reply-To: <199805041514.IAA24416@*******.it.earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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On 4 May 98 at 11:17, Craig J Wilhelm Jr wrote:
> On 05:35 AM 5/4/98 , Fred Stoessel wrote:
> >Hoi. I just read the last entry and now have question concerning bikes. A
> player in my party is driving a
> >harley scorpion. Now he wants to transport his deck or his assault shotgun
> under the seat. Is this possible?
>
> You mean in the little storage thing under the seat? I dunno
> about the
> deck, just how big are cyberdecks? If you say about the size of a
> standard IBM keyboard, no dice, just a little too long. As for the
> shotgun, way too long. Even with a foldong stock it'll still run
> around 24"-26" long.
There is another way. Chrome the shotgun and then mount it to a
chomed part of the frame by the seat. Believe it or not it just
"disappears". I lived in a town that did this to the shotguns the
Motorcycle units carried. I do not want to think of how many times I
saw one of those bikes before I noticed the shotgun nor how many
times it took to confirm that what I thought I saw was what I saw.
David Hinkley
dhinkley@***.org
====================================================
Those who are too intelligent to engage in politics
are punished by being governed by those who are not
--Plato
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 23:34:34 +0200
Reply-To: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.net>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: more Azania questions...
Comments: To: Net Enhancements for RolePlaying Shadowrun discussion
<nerps@***tproc.itribe.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi again, folks.
More questions concerning my project (will it ever be a real project?)
Azania...
1. I hear that Azania is split in four more or less independent States
forming kind of a federation. This comes from the Cyberpirates book. Is
there any information on where the borders of these four staes or
countries are?
2. One of them seems to be elve-run. Which one? How? Like a "real" Tir,
or more open and open-minded?
3. What has happened with global diamond and gold trade after the
awakening? Is it still such a monopoly as today, perhaps run by one uf
the major corps, or is it fed by smaller, independent companies? I
would assume the latter, but perhaps the Corporate Shadowfiles or PoaD
tell more ... I don't have any sourcebook here, by the way ...
donations anyone???
4. Oh, there was a number four, but I forgot it ... ok - anything else
important you know and I should know?
Any further information you provide might turn up in an NERPS Article,
and you might be quoted or at least get a "Thanks" to you, so it's
worth answering!
Arno
--
Arno Lehmann
arlehma@***.net http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Cabana/5274/
arno@*******.ast.uct.ac.za http://pinguin.ast.uct.ac.za
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 17:45:52 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jeremy Fisher <jmf4402@***.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Tskrang Conspiracy (A little long)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
In the Tir Tangire book someone in the shadowtalk section puts forth the
assumption that VITAS was designed to kill of a particular species or
race. After reading the Cyberpirates book, I think we have evidence that
it may have been the Tskrang. This is because the Chupucabras seem to be
a HMHVV infected form of Tskrang. They are bipedal humanoids, iguana like
in apperance, with crested heads, opposable thumbs, give birth to live
young, and have a genetic similarity to primates. Furthermore they test
positive for some form of HMHVV and have the power Essence drain and the
weakness of Essence loss. If VITAS was designed to kill off the people
who would have become Tskrang, it would make sense that the only Tskrang
who would survive would be HMHVV infected, as HMHVV provides an immunity
to VITAS, or at least some strains, such as the Ghoul strain does
(according to the SR Companion), do. The Chupucabras breed true, unlike
other HMHVV infected creatures. This would make sense if perhaps a
population of humans, who would goblinize into Tskrang, had HMHVV survived
the VITAS epidemic, changed into Chupucabras, and then gave birth to the
next generation of Chupucabras.
This would explain why no Tskrang have been seen yet, only Chupucabras, as
well as go along with Mike Mullvihill's statement that Tskrang would not
appear in SR. Right, no Tskrang just Chupucabras. This would also help
explain the missing population of Madagascar (the point of origin of
Chupucabras), those who became Tskrang/Chupucabras went feral and left the
cities, those who didnt died of VITAS.
Well feel free to comment and/or shoot holes in this thing.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 15:53:42 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lander Williams <lander@****.WAVE.CA>
Subject: Re: (OT)Gulf war (was: What's on the Trid?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> even at '90, i would still have been in Hs.. 10? 12? i feel old now,
> thanks guys <g>
> You feel old, I was in 5th grade when Kennedy was shot. In training
> at Fort Benning when Siagon fell and out of the Army by the Gulf War.
AAAH!! the fountain of youth!! talk to someone a lot older than you <BG!!>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 17:25:10 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Rigger tank? [was Re : Ridreless blitzen]
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> But this gives me a few ideas ...
> What's the CF / cost for a full rigger tank? I think the "rigger
> adaptation" in R2 just represents the computer systems needed to
> interface with a VCR.
>
What is a "rigger tank"? The rigger does not need any special seating,
etc, to rig. If he wants saftey seating, and such, those are available
in both rigger books. If you really are ludicrously safety concious,
rig from a "Stabilization Unit"- basic book, biotech equipment. It's
given a weight, and I'd say it ocupies as much space as a bed or
non-folding bench seat.
> Second, what effect does the semi-AI nature of RPAP have on anti-theft
> systems?
>
Depends on its orders. I'd say it follows its orders, using the
sensors and vehicle defenses as would a rigger, except of course rolling
its pilot rating and such.
Could be very nasty, could just drive away.
-Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 17:25:36 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Cyberware 2060/Jettware!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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>
> Re: Cyberware 2060/Jettware! (Jessica Grota , Sat 23:59)
> > > Headware Radio (comm set) delta .25
> >
> > What is this item? Is it a "group" of items? A 2-way radio for .25 is
> > very nice...
>
> It's the CyberComm link unit out of I THINK Cybertechnology...the one
> that boils down to being roughly electronic telepathy?
>
Thats the "cybercomm link", which has a base essence cost of .4E. Also,
it's description contradicts the later rules, which say ALL it does is
translate thoughts, still requiring a radio (internal or datajack / DNI
linked) for transmission. That can get to be a real essence hog, but
otherwiase its LESS essence than a ordinary radio (which until this came
out, we assumed had at least subvocal / subaudibal function) which is
also odd.
GRRRR.... Its not just flimsy constuction that makes my books wear
out... flight related wall impact plays a part.
> Jett didn't have to stick around long: there was a mage on standby to
> heal her after surgery. :) More on that below. I didn't mess too much
> with the "additional reduction" rules, mostly because I didn't
> understand them at the time. I still don't have any of the real good
> cyber books, ie cybertechnology or Shadowtech. Ah, well. Maybe for
> Christmas...
>
They are complex, badly organized, un-colated, and a major impediment,
cost wise, to getting any big essence (E .5 +) cyber. You can do well
without. Shadowtech is worth it for the bioware and descriptions of
fairly common cyber. Cybertechnology is not as good, but still pretty
neat, just purely cyber oriented. You need to dig in it, SSC, AND
shadowtech to figure out how to do /charge for implant surgery.
Despite magic healing, I think you at least still require the normal
healing time be spent in a clinic to allow "cyber adjustment". Then
again, people check out of real hospitals against doctor advice all the
time.
> Jett was in fact healed right after surgery by another PC and went home
> soon after. Her magical powers, FWIW, Awakened well after she got all
> her cyber, which I neglected to mention. I just did the "adjustment"
> routine for kicks, really, since my GM needed Jett back in action ASAP.
> :) After all, if you can RP it, it isn't munchie! ;)
>
I just meant, there is a test for magic POTENTIAL. They might not have
done it, but in a clinic that (delta) good, they likely would. Coulda
been a cute scene: Doctor-"Miss, your SURE you want these procedures?
Your Gassenberg-Whitefeather test is not conclusively negative." Jett;
" Is that <whatever the frag it is> gonna stop the stuff from working?
No? Then just do it, already!"
-Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 17:25:49 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Cyberware 2060/Jettware!
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Re: Cyberware 2060/Jettware! (Ereskanti , Sat 23:10)
> YOu raise a really good point actually here Mongoose. We've had character's
> who go into the Vat/under the laser-knife more than once. Not all that long
> ago, two of the parties main characters both went in at the same time. After
> a short while (first third of the work), they were both able to function
> inside of a "Matrix" environment. Kind of fun when the samurai types
suddenly
> got to be the decker types.
>
> (yes, it was a twisting of rules, but it had it's moments)
>
> -K
Actually, I plowed 20 karma into "biotech" as a general skill, under
the assumption that he was A) paying a lot of attention to his
treatment B) bored silly with sims C) unable to learn / unintersted in
decking (no datajack), D) allowed to acsess the clinics "help" files.
As a typycal runner with half ased medical knowledge, I'm sure he's the
biggest pain in the ass patient, and they probaly want him out post
haste. On the other hand, once ambulatory, he'll make a helacious
nurses aid. :)
-Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 17:25:26 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: The talks on my Cyberware post. (munchkin humour)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> Re: The talks on my Cyberware post. (munchkin humour) (Nexx , Sun 10:12)
> > *GMGMV- Game Master - Gamer Munchkin Virus.
> > Being a minmaxer is like being a ghoul- you annoy other gamers,
> and eat
> > old game books, but don't have to suck the fun out of the game to live.
> > I'd say the "Munchkin whiner" is like the banshee, as its
> wailing
> > instills fear and causes others to flee, and leave the rest to others to
> > amuse ME with....
>
> This should become a standard part of nettiquette, IMO.
HUH? You mean letting others finish a list of gags should be as
tandard thing to do on the net? Or did you mean a list of GMGMV
"goblinaztions" should be recorded in some sort of FAQ?
And since nobody has taken up the joke, I will continue:
The Bruckner-lagner form of GMGMV has only been observed in GM's, and
is hypothesized to kill most players. It turns them intomanipulating,
evil bastards who force others to behave as muchkins also, to serve his
ends or die. This is the dreaded "Nosferatue", the munchkin GM
overfiend.
Ick, thats not so funny- they are just to common and dangerous.
-Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 18:07:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Craig J Wilhelm Jr <craigjwjr@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: (OT)Gulf war (was: What's on the Trid?)
In-Reply-To: <199805042132.OAA11945@*****.efn.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 10:39 AM On 5/4/98 , David Hinkley wrote:
>You feel old, I was in 5th grade when Kennedy was shot. In training
>at Fort Benning when Siagon fell and out of the Army by the Gulf War.
Yup, you're old. ;)
Craig "Knee Deep in the Blood of Swine" Wilhelm
Afterlife Incorperated,
Quality Carnage at Affordable Prices.
UIN: 1864690
-------------BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
v3.12
GAT/$ d- s+:+ a- C+++ U--- P+ L- E-- W++ N++
o K- w+ O> !M-- !V PS+ PE Y+ PGP++ t--- 5+++
X-- R++ tv b++ DI-- D+(Q2++) G++ e++ h* r y++**
--------------END GEEK CODE BLOCK--------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 18:09:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Craig J Wilhelm Jr <craigjwjr@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: (OT)Gulf war (was: What's on the Trid?)
In-Reply-To: <00b301bd77a7$1b29a600$0101a8c0@********.wave.shaw.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 05:53 PM On 5/4/98 , Lander Williams wrote:
>AAAH!! the fountain of youth!! talk to someone a lot older than you <BG!!>
We've got enough youth, how about a fountain of SMART?
Craig "Knee Deep in the Blood of Swine" Wilhelm
Afterlife Incorperated,
Quality Carnage at Affordable Prices.
UIN: 1864690
-------------BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
v3.12
GAT/$ d- s+:+ a- C+++ U--- P+ L- E-- W++ N++
o K- w+ O> !M-- !V PS+ PE Y+ PGP++ t--- 5+++
X-- R++ tv b++ DI-- D+(Q2++) G++ e++ h* r y++**
--------------END GEEK CODE BLOCK--------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 18:17:41 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Vampires ( & Mages )
In-Reply-To: <v03110709b17083d82213@[204.202.55.170]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Okay, I don't know much about White Wolf's games and truthfully, don't
really care.
BUT it was mentioned by Robert Nessius earlier that he used several items
from that gaming series to provide culture references for Shadowrun,
specifically mentioning Vampire and Mage.
I'm somewhat curious to tell the truth now. If I were only to purchase one
book for Vampire info and one book for Mage info, what should I buy?
Especially if I didn't want to deal with a lot of game mechanics nonsense,
just background materials that could be mined for Shadowrun purposes.
Erik J.
"Forgive me FASA for I have sinned. It has been 6 days since I last played
Shadowrun and 15 days since I last bought a SRTCG booster pack."
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 00:03:55 +0200
Reply-To: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.net>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Re: ASIST assistance?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Mon, 4 May 1998 14:36:36 -0700, Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman wrote:
>
>You're talking about the differences between machine code and the fluffy
>interface that you get with MacOS and Win95, if I'm correct? Dunno... I
>haven't taken that many in depth computer courses. I do know that there's
>an OS on the MPCP, just because the BBB says there is. What use the deck
>is in that situation is beyond me. But that's what it says. I suppose it
>has to be able to manage the the allocation of active memory and storage
>memory. I do like to think of it in the following terms, though.
>
>If I disconnect my monitor, my mouse, and/or my keyboard, my computer will
>still work. The usability is a little hindered, but the computer will
>continue to function just splendidly nonetheless. I have had to do stuff
>with one of those three missing, so it is possible. Just bloody difficult.
<snip>
>If I turn off my simsense rig, aka my Artificial Sensory Induction System,
>aka my ASIST, according to VR2.0, I now have a turtle or tortoise, or
>whatever you want to call it. The OS is in the MPCP, so I don't need to
>worry about it. Take out the MPCP, and I'd be screwed, but I can use my
>deck without the ASIST interface provided I have an alternative I/O
>resource available. I'd have to dig my keyboard and monitor out of storage
>and deck like that, but it is still possible.
>
Then perhaps you might want to call the ASIST an OS extension. Like
Windows is an Extension of DOS, X one of Unix, and so one.
So that would make it - if you want to use todays terms, which I am
sure is totally nonsense IMHO - a collection of normal programs and
device drivers and a user interface.
Arno
--
Arno Lehmann
arlehma@***.net http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Cabana/5274/
arno@*******.ast.uct.ac.za http://pinguin.ast.uct.ac.za
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 17:37:56 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <neon@******.BACKBONE.OLEMISS.EDU>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:25 PM 5/4/98 +0100, Spike wrote:
>And verily, did Michael Broadwater hastily scribble thusly...
>|Spike, you're 40? Gurth was talking about the _first_ gulf war (which was
>|in '80).
>
>Eh? That wasn't CALLED the Gulf War. That was the Iran/Iraq war.
>
>Please! I'm old enough as it is without people making me 10 years older!
>:)
That's what I thought. But then, Gurth had said:
>> (who remembers the beginning of the *first* Gulf War, long before CNN was
>> a glimmer in Ted Turner's mind.)
>
>I wasn't paying too much attention to the news when that one started...
>(For the record, I was about 6.)
and you said:
>And verily, did Gurth hastily scribble thusly...
>|I wasn't paying too much attention to the news when that one started...
>|(For the record, I was about 6.)
>
>SIX!?
>Oh my aching bones...
>I was 22 when it started.
So I was curious.
Mike Broadwater
Member of the Blackhand and Dwarven Illuminati
http://www.olemiss.edu/~neon/
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 18:43:12 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Roger J. An" <rogan@******.ORG>
Subject: Talismongering
In-Reply-To: <GNECLLIIPNJHBAAA@****city.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Does anyone use the Enchanting skill and talismonger things on a regular
basis for their characters? Was just wondering how many people use it. A
PC in my campaign just got an enchanting at 6 and I've been having to
refamiliarize myself with the rules.
One thing did come up however. Where in the Grimoire does it say how many
units of material you need to make any of the focuses (power,spell,etc.)?
Thanks,
Dust
*****************************************
* Roger J. An *
* rogan@******.org *
* http://users.bergen.org/~rogan/ *
*****************************************
* "I always think I've got it all *
* figured out. Then I live another day *
* and it gets more complicated." *
* - Scud the Disposable Assassin *
*****************************************
* "I slack therefore I am." *
* - Roger J. An *
*****************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 15:45:06 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Vampires ( & Mages )
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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----------
> From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Vampires ( & Mages )
> Date: Monday, May 04, 1998 3:17 PM
>
> Okay, I don't know much about White Wolf's games and truthfully, don't
> really care.
>
> BUT it was mentioned by Robert Nessius earlier that he used several items
> from that gaming series to provide culture references for Shadowrun,
> specifically mentioning Vampire and Mage.
>
> I'm somewhat curious to tell the truth now. If I were only to purchase
one
> book for Vampire info and one book for Mage info, what should I buy?
> Especially if I didn't want to deal with a lot of game mechanics
nonsense,
> just background materials that could be mined for Shadowrun purposes.
>
You're going to buy one of each, right? The best thing I could recommend,
I suppose, is to just buy the main rules for each of them. You can, in
theory, get a good feel for the game universe for each of them from just
reading the core rules. It has a big section in the front with their
history. Unfortunately, they're a good 25-30 bucks a whack. Definitely
would recommend searching used book stores for a copy of them. It's
sometimes amazing what you kind find. A few weeks ago I found a hard cover
SRII in good condition for only 15 bucks. =)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 19:04:16 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Craig J Wilhelm Jr <craigjwjr@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: Harleys and Pumpguns
In-Reply-To: <19980504191613.3198.qmail@*******.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On 03:16 PM 5/4/98 , The Vagabond wrote:
> Just how long do think the seat on a Harley is? We're not exactly
>talking about a bicycle seat...
I know how big the SEAT is, I'm talking about the little storage space
under it. It's a LOT smaller than the seat. It's only a space like
16"lX5"wX4"d. But then I'm measuring it against my old cycle, a Kawasaki
KZ-1300, an older touring bike that's equal in size to most harleys. It had
enough room for a pistol, 2 soda cans, a sandwich and my keys, and not much
else (yes, that's exactly what I took on a typical summertime cruise).
There's no way I could fit my keyboard in there, no matter how hard you try.
Craig "Knee Deep in the Blood of Swine" Wilhelm
Afterlife Incorperated,
Quality Carnage at Affordable Prices.
UIN: 1864690
-------------BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
v3.12
GAT/$ d- s+:+ a- C+++ U--- P+ L- E-- W++ N++
o K- w+ O> !M-- !V PS+ PE Y+ PGP++ t--- 5+++
X-- R++ tv b++ DI-- D+(Q2++) G++ e++ h* r y++**
--------------END GEEK CODE BLOCK--------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 19:29:36 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Tournament GMing
In-Reply-To: <v03110709b17083d82213@[204.202.55.170]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Okay, I've finally decided that I will GM Shadowrun at the San Diego Comic
Con. Not many of you actually care, I know.
But I've never GMed at a convention or anything. I can GM acceptably well
(while I occassionaly forget rules here and there, my players love my
playacting of the NPCs, especially Johnny Rotten the fixer), but that's
almost always been a group of friends or mostly friends.
So does anyone have any advice? Any web pages that give pointers to this
sort of thing (like maybe GenCon's page)? Anybody actually out there GMed
for a tournament or convention?
I imagine I probably should have enough pre-generated PCs for everyone, in
a mix that's appropriate. And a pile of dice. All the sourcebooks I'll
need. Caffiene. Several writing utensils and note paper. My GM screen
since I have one (I think it's actually a SR1 screen too, but I haven't
used it in a while; I keep forgetting it and it's not terribly important
anyway; I don't use much written material anyway). Can anyone think of
anything else?
Thanks all.
Erik J.
"Oh my God, they killed Dunkelzahn! You bastards!!!"
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 17:36:07 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Rigger tank? [was Re : Ridreless blitzen]
In-Reply-To: <199805042159.PAA19847@******.carl.org> from
"Wafflemeisters" at
May 4, 98 05:25:10 pm
Content-Type: text
Wafflemeisters wrote:
/
/ > But this gives me a few ideas ...
/ > What's the CF / cost for a full rigger tank? I think the "rigger
/ > adaptation" in R2 just represents the computer systems needed to
/ > interface with a VCR.
/ >
/
/ What is a "rigger tank"?
He might be referring to a system where the pilot's "cockpit" is filled
with fluid. The theory is that this will increase the number of Gs that a
pilot can take. As the G forces press on his body they also press on the
surrounding fluid, which presses on the surface of his body evenly, keeping
blood from pooling. In theory it's supposed to work great.
-David
--
"That which we do not know supports that which we know."
- Joseph Campbell
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 19:48:19 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
In-Reply-To: <Pine.WNT.3.96.980504184026.-239527A-100000@*******>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:43 PM 5/4/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Does anyone use the Enchanting skill and talismonger things on a regular
>basis for their characters? Was just wondering how many people use it. A
>PC in my campaign just got an enchanting at 6 and I've been having to
>refamiliarize myself with the rules.
About the only real use for Enchanting in the games I've played in has been
the magicians baking up a focus for themselves so they could pay less karma
to bond the bastards. No one even bothered to use Enchanting to make
enough fetishes or foci or anything to sell.
>One thing did come up however. Where in the Grimoire does it say how many
>units of material you need to make any of the focuses (power,spell,etc.)?
That should be in with the rest of the Enchanting information. But I do
seem to recall (it's been awhile since I've had to actually read up on
Enchanting, no one in the current mix of PCs has it yet) that there wasn't
a specific number of radicals/units that had to be used. It was more like
the more units of orichalcum, the extra radicals added in, all made the
karma cost easier. And since, in theory, you could enchant nearly anything
and turn it into a focus, you don't *have* to use any units.
Hope this helps.
Erik J.
"Forgive me FASA for I have sinned. It has been 6 days since I last played
Shadowrun and 15 days since I last bought a SRTCG booster pack."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 16:54:10 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Talismongering
> Date: Monday, May 04, 1998 4:48 PM
>
> At 06:43 PM 5/4/98 -0700, you wrote:
> >Does anyone use the Enchanting skill and talismonger things on a regular
> >basis for their characters? Was just wondering how many people use it.
A
> >PC in my campaign just got an enchanting at 6 and I've been having to
> >refamiliarize myself with the rules.
>
> About the only real use for Enchanting in the games I've played in has
been
> the magicians baking up a focus for themselves so they could pay less
karma
> to bond the bastards. No one even bothered to use Enchanting to make
> enough fetishes or foci or anything to sell.
>
Actually, I remember one of my group doing that with a weapon focus. I
don't remember exactly how he went about it, but it was a long, drawn out
affair where he gathered together all the parts, just totally working the
system to get as many benefits as possible, and then paid an absurdly low
karma cost for a rating 10 weapon focus.... None of our mages ever
bothered to use fetishes... except for one case where a mage had an
alternate version of his manabolt that used expendable fetishes and was
exclusive... i think he had a spell-specific focus for that too.
Yeah, we've had our fair share of munchkin stunts. =)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 17:59:02 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: looking for info
In-Reply-To: <009101bd7791$2aff9c80$0101a8c0@********.wave.shaw.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 13:16 04/05/98 -0600, you wrote:
>>Dead town, IMO. Most of Alberta is too rural to survive properly when
>>'artificial' food comes into play big time. The only thing that could
>>still bring it enough money to keep Alberta afloat is the oil industry, if
>>it hasn't died by then. Do the experts have any guesses on when those oil
>>sands up north will run out at the current rate we're going?
>
>no idea.. never really looked into it. Calgary does have more to it than
>just
>agriculture and oil, tho id be hard pressed to give any GOOD examples. :)
Err.. umm.. it does? ;) I know it's going a bit more hi-tech and from
checking a few places it appears to have plenty of computer jobs available,
but aside from that I can't think of anything major.
And just think -- if there's no agriculture and cattle, the rodeo goes,
too. Eek! ;)
>>last time I was up there Sentry Box had both NAN books in the used section.
>> Of course, that was several months ago, so who knows. I've never seen
>>anything for Calgary on the net, although I have considered doing it
>>myself, but certainly don't have the time now :/
>i figure that calgary would still be around, just not as 'industrial' or
>'commercial' as
>it is now. There are all sortsa 'spiritual' things about it.. one of the
>reasons it always
>gets a lot of supernatural attention in other RPGS (speciffically Beyond the
>Supernatural
>and Rifts), so shamantic mages might do stuff around here. And because its
>quite out of
>the way, it could make for decent secure areas for corp research.
That's a thought.. alot of the areas in southern Alberta have native
significance, although I imagine a fair amount of that is media bred.
It would certainly make an okay place to do corp research that needs to be
in sub-zero tempratures for too long each year :)
-Adam J
El Nino makes Alberta nice.
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 19:03:25 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: Roger J. An <rogan@******.ORG>
> Does anyone use the Enchanting skill and talismonger things on a regular
> basis for their characters? Was just wondering how many people use it.
A
> PC in my campaign just got an enchanting at 6 and I've been having to
> refamiliarize myself with the rules.
I used it mainly for my dwarven Druid. Since his fetishes were so
different than normal, it saved him a shitload of money. He was a citizen
of the SS, so he had plenty of land to look over.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 12:35:43 +1200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: NightStalkers: the World Tour (long)
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My GM, being off-line and pretty much isolated from much , would like
the list's opinion of his current campaign-setting and setup. So, here
it is:
Many of you know (or should) that in 2044, a group of vampires in New
Orleans began a series of attacks on public institutions and government
facilities which lasted for several months. The coven was eventually
defeated by the formation and operations of an elite counter-paranormal
force known as the Night Stalkers, who remain(?) operational to this day
(IIRC).
Cut to Los Angeles, June 2052: my PC, an LA police sergeant by the name
of 'Duke' Hawkins, who received a fair amount of high-grade bioware
through some undercover work (read: previous games, in 'truer' Shadowrun
style), is summarily ordered to appear before the Los Angeles City
Council. He is surprised to find that he is to be promoted to Lieutenant
and placed in command of a covert Paranormal Response Team, modelled on
and named for the New Orleans Night Stalkers. His team includes an
elven marksman/decker ('Ricochet' Jeff Conway, ex-SWAT and Duke's
partner/undercover teammate), a sorcery adept (Karyn 'Steel' Cody, a
relative rookie and another undercover-teammate), 'Claymore' (ork
heavy-weapons - former SAS(!)), and a dwarven rigger called Sandman (who
has a real mad-on for the Azzies). The NPC support team includes the
normal mix of techs, our team liaison (more on him in a moment), and a
doctor/paramedic who can cure HMVV(!!!!) This came in handy in
providing the team with its final (NPC) member: one Major Taniko
Fujimoto, a member of the elite Imperial Marine 'Jade Samurai' Covert
Action Brigade (read: ninja), and a vampire who wished to defect.
Upon meeting and talking with the (NPC) team liaison, Duke is astounded
to learn that the Night-Stalkers are actually a world-wide organisation
that actually pre-dates the Awakening by a large margin (they've been
secretly fighting vampires and so forth for some time). The ten-strong
ruling Council is scattered worldwide (each member in a different area,
ranging from FDC to Amazonia to London to Azania), issuing directives to
Regional Commanders like Duke (whose team now has responsibility for
combating paranormals throughout Cal-Free). There are few areas in the
world that do not fall under one NS Region or another; they even have
their own 'Area 51'-style research facility somewhere in North America
(including Sasquatch, T'Skrang and Windling scientists). Equipment is
highly specialised for the role; anyone who's seen the recent Vampirella
comic-arc about the 'fighting nuns' would recognise most of the gear.
(Duke prefers his .45s, though: he's one of those
born-sixty-years-too-late types.)
Unfortunately, the kitty-cat stuff that Duke's had to deal with so far
is just the beginning. It seems that 'the enemy' (maybe that should be
the Enemy?) are far more organised than one would think: there are
dozens of paracritter groups and covens out there, all just itching to
wreck havoc. One group in particular has made itself known: the
'Shogun's coven', a group of Japanese vampires, several hundred strong,
whose history goes back to the feudal era of that nation. These are the
same people who Brought Over Major Fujimoto (they'd convinced her the
Night Stalkers were the bad guys), before she realised the truth and
defected.
Meanwhile, the politico-military front is hotting up as well.
Basically, Cal-Free has had enough. Enough of the keebs nibbling at
their north borders, the Azzies sniffing around their south, and the
I-Marines running roughshod over Californian citizens in the streets of
'Frisco. Officially, the I-Marines are being encouraged to withdraw;
unofficially, they're being told to 'frag off or get hurt'. The UCAS is
offering to deploy troops to replace the departing I-Marines, 'purely in
a peacekeeping capacity'. Tensions on the south border are especially
high, and war is expected within the next twelve to eighteen months -
and the odds offered on a Cal-Free victory aren't as long as one might
expect. The President is laying in heavy supplies from 'undisclosed
sources' (mainly UCAS), including thunderbirds, Stonewalls, EFAs and
Eagles, and (this one's a stretch) a full carrier battle-group. UCAS
military 'advisors' are everywhere, and Cal-Free owes the UCAS a
horrible amount for all this hardware.
Of course, if it comes to war, the LA City Council might decide to score
some points with Sacramento: LA already has this covert strike team set
up, why not send them on a couple of truly patriotic missions for a
change? <GM grins evilly>
However, the President seems so focussed on the short-term goal of
victory over the Azzies that he doesn't see the potential cost to CFS:
the creeping loss of sovereignty to the UCAS might see his once-proud
Cal-Free reunited with the UCAS on *their* terms. (While that might
not, on the whole, be a *bad* thing, from his perspective, 'twere
better done to Cal-Free's tune, neh?) Nor does he know the threat the
paranormals pose to his nation; not only are they strong enough to wreck
havoc on a group-by-group basis, should they ever get together and
organise (and the NS Council is *fairly sure* that'll never happen
<cynical laugh>), Cal-Free would be swamped. In fact, the paranormals
may be fomenting the war with the Azzies; in the confusion of such
events, they could make great gains almost unnoticed.
I won't even *start* with all the problems Duke has within his team and
support crew, because this post is pretty long already and many of you
probably wouldn't be interested. But anyone with any opinions on the
above scenario, suggestions as to what could be retuned, and so forth,
don't be shy, okay?
Danyel Woods
9604801@********.ac.nz
'Are you deliberately trying to drive me insane?'
'The universe is already mad. Anything else would be
redundant.'
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 02:47:15 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Vampires ( & Mages ) & Werewolves ?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980504151934.08370018@****.fbiz.com>
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>Okay, I don't know much about White Wolf's games and truthfully, don't
>really care.
I'm only a player so I don't have read any vampire book. My opinion will
lack some real insight but I think I've enough played to make it valuable...
>BUT it was mentioned by Robert Nessius earlier that he used several items
>from that gaming series to provide culture references for Shadowrun,
>specifically mentioning Vampire and Mage.
>
>I'm somewhat curious to tell the truth now. If I were only to purchase one
>book for Vampire info and one book for Mage info, what should I buy?
>Especially if I didn't want to deal with a lot of game mechanics nonsense,
>just background materials that could be mined for Shadowrun purposes.
* For Vampire, I don't think there's something really useful. It's a very
specific atmosphere.
For data on the different clan, I don't think any of the books describes
all the clans. There is either Camarilla's or Sabbat's or the others...
* For mage, I think the most easy to adapt is about technomancers. This
makes weird mages using magic and *technology*, ideal for AZ... An other
one is about the different realms. It can give some ideas for creating
astral planes or steps during metaplanar quests.
* For werewolf, the book about umbra is really good. There are many places
described which can be easily used for astral quests. An other good one is
about the spirits. It describes many spirits with their habits.
I'm sorry but I don't remember the titles. If you ask your book store about
these ones, they sure can point you to the right book.
- Cobra.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 10:52:56 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Quantum <a.hides@*******.QUT.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Radiation and Magic
In-Reply-To: <17487.199805041028@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
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> And verily, did Alfredo B Alves hastily scribble thusly...
> |
> |What if radiation and magic are the same or related?
>
> That has been hinted at several times.
>
> |I got this idea after reading the threads about mages in space... what if
> |the Sun (being the source of life on this planet) emits monstrous amounts
> |of mana of different types and we humans can only handle certain types?
>
> And if the sun were to go through various cycles of about...oooo, say 15000
> years.....
Oooh... Interesting thought.
However, here's something else to think about. If the magic cycles are
dependant on cycles of the sun would different stellar systems have
different periods? If so, when (or if) shadowrun ever incorperates
interstellar travel are they (theoretically anyway) going to find planets
that are hospitible to life but with no magic (are'nt the mages going to
be pleased) and planets that are already infested with Horrors?
Another interesting thought. If the "mana" given off by the sun varies
with age, will old stars (e.g. white dwarves) have less mana as they have
already burned off most of their resources? If so, couldn't mana be
produced artificially...? :)
Quantum
-----------------------------------------------
| A man doesn't automatically get my respect |
| he has to get down on his knees and beg for it|
-----------------------------------------------
hidesy@***.brisnet.org.au
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Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 21:05:49 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Jessica Grota <grota@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
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Alexia Silverstein wrote:
> So, Thanks for the Idea Whoever started this string...(I forget)
/me bows. "Thank you, thank you..."
--Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 20:07:43 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Andrews <jmandrews@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: The talks on my Cyberware post.
In-Reply-To: <354BCE92.62DB@**********.net>
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On Sat, 2 May 1998, Wafflemeisters wrote:
> And why create something that is impossible to find- it effectively
> does not exist, in that case.
>
Just 'cause the players can't find it doesn't mean that they won't look
for it--and that our NPCs can't find it... Aztlan elite, maybe? <eg>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 21:12:43 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Jessica Grota <grota@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberware 2060/Jettware!
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Wafflemeisters wrote:
<snip>
> Despite magic healing, I think you at least still require the normal
> healing time be spent in a clinic to allow "cyber adjustment". Then
> again, people check out of real hospitals against doctor advice all the
> time.
Jett was in some pretty dire straits at the time she got her cyberware.
Sticking around the hospital unfortunately wasn't an option. And Jett
didn't do TOO badly, all things considered, because she alread had Wired
'flexes 1 and muscle rep 2, so the jump wasn't quite as big.
> I just meant, there is a test for magic POTENTIAL. They might not have
> done it, but in a clinic that (delta) good, they likely would. Coulda
> been a cute scene: Doctor-"Miss, your SURE you want these procedures?
> Your Gassenberg-Whitefeather test is not conclusively negative." Jett;
> " Is that <whatever the frag it is> gonna stop the stuff from working?
> No? Then just do it, already!"
>
> -Mongoose
hehe. There's the tricky part. Jett WAS negative on her magic test at
the time.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 20:48:22 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Andrews <jmandrews@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyber and Body Index (was Re: Munchkinism at it's finest)
In-Reply-To: <199805041610.MAA14867@******.mindspring.com>
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On Mon, 4 May 1998, MC23 wrote:
> Everyone seems to be forgetting that alphaware on up has reduced Essence
> cost because of miniaturization and _organic components_. For these
> Amazing Discoveries(tm) levels of cyber grades to even exist (and I still
> scoff at that) then the "organic component" would constitute more and
> more of the cyberware. Non-natural organics are Bioware and would effect
[snip bioware argument]
but if essence reduction on cyber comes from organic componentts, then how
come they reduce impact on magic attribute? bioware is still organic, but
it affect magicians adversely...
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:54:47 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Geoff Skellams <geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Cyber and Body Index (was Re: Munchkinism at it's finest)
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On Shadowrun Discussion, Jonathan Andrews[SMTP:jmandrews@*******.EDU]
wrote:
> but if essence reduction on cyber comes from organic componentts, then
how
> come they reduce impact on magic attribute? bioware is still organic,
but
> it affect magicians adversely...
If you accept the estoeric theories about energy flow through the body
(say either the Yoga ones about chakras and nadis, or the Chinese ch'i
and meridian lines), then any foriegn stuff inserted into the body
disrupts the energy flow through the body. This includes things like
cancer, or things like cyberware and bioware.
Personally, I don't have any problem with it
cheers
Geoff
--
Geoff Skellams R&D - Tower Software
Email Address: geoff.skellams@*********.com.au
Homepage: http://www.towersoft.com.au/staff/geoff/
ICQ Number: 2815165
"That rates about a 9.5 on my weird-shit-o-meter"
- Will Smith in "Men in Black"
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 21:58:06 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
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In a message dated 5/4/98 5:51:49 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
rogan@******.ORG writes:
> Does anyone use the Enchanting skill and talismonger things on a regular
> basis for their characters? Was just wondering how many people use it. A
> PC in my campaign just got an enchanting at 6 and I've been having to
> refamiliarize myself with the rules.
Is this a trick question??? Okay, sorry, don't mean to facetious, it's just a
funny thing to hear after -most- people know me fave character is 'the
Enchanter'...
> One thing did come up however. Where in the Grimoire does it say how many
> units of material you need to make any of the focuses (power,spell,etc.)?
Pg 23 - 25 of the Grimoire is the exact details. Exact number of units are
not necessarily required, except for minimums, such as one unit of Orichalcum
is required for making a Weapon Foci. The nifty material isn't actually
required as far as the book(s) are concerned for making anything other than
Weapon Foci. BUT, it does help reduce some target numbers (as per multiple
arcanum beyond the basic requirements).
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 22:09:46 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Mo' bettah Cyberdoodads
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In a message dated 5/3/98 8:39:17 PM US Eastern Standard Time, dghost@****.COM
writes:
> >actually, if you think about it, you can probably have a flap of skin
> >that folds over the opening or whatever, having it overlap with the
> >skin on the other side of the opening, hopefully with it sealing to
> >itself, kind of like saran wrap does
> >
> >Panther
>
> DOH! I shoulda thought of that :) Ok, small pouches could be disguised
> as scars ... not sure about the flap thing ... either be very concealable
> and hard to open or easily noticed and easy to open ... unless you had a
> DNI controlled device ... actually not even that. A lever action thingy
> go open it ... push here, panel pops open ... dunno how much to charge
> fer it ...
>
Actually, what about the "Dataport" from "Alien's 4" that was hidden
beneath a
"Mole" on the Synthetic???
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 19:18:07 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
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----------
> From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Talismongering
> Date: Monday, May 04, 1998 6:58 PM
>
> In a message dated 5/4/98 5:51:49 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> rogan@******.ORG writes:
>
> > Does anyone use the Enchanting skill and talismonger things on a
regular
> > basis for their characters? Was just wondering how many people use
it. A
> > PC in my campaign just got an enchanting at 6 and I've been having to
> > refamiliarize myself with the rules.
>
> Is this a trick question??? Okay, sorry, don't mean to facetious, it's
just a
> funny thing to hear after -most- people know me fave character is 'the
> Enchanter'...
>
You mean the enchanter adept? Or a mage with Enchanting? I can imagine
the second one, but...
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 22:22:00 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
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In a message dated 5/4/98 3:29:47 AM US Eastern Standard Time, gurth@******.NL
writes:
> > (who remembers the beginning of the *first* Gulf War, long before CNN was
> > a glimmer in Ted Turner's mind.)
>
> I wasn't paying too much attention to the news when that one started...
> (For the record, I was about 6.)
>
(strange noise of milk spewing...)
Okay, that did it...I'm in the Shadow of 30....how old is anyone else??? I
know I -CAN'T- be the oldest one on the list...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 22:25:48 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
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In a message dated 5/4/98 5:50:04 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK writes:
> And verily, did Gurth hastily scribble thusly...
> |I wasn't paying too much attention to the news when that one started...
> |(For the record, I was about 6.)
>
> SIX!?
> Oh my aching bones...
> I was 22 when it started.
>
YES!!! I knew it...!!! Thank -YOU- Spike!!!
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 22:29:26 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paul Gettle <pgettle@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Vampires ( & Mages )
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980504151934.08370018@****.fbiz.com>
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At 06:17 PM 5/4/98 -0400, Erik wrote:
>I'm somewhat curious to tell the truth now. If I were only to
purchase one
>book for Vampire info and one book for Mage info, what should I buy?
>Especially if I didn't want to deal with a lot of game mechanics
nonsense,
>just background materials that could be mined for Shadowrun purposes.
Gah. I'm somewhat familar with WoD, and you're asking for a tall
order. The core rulebooks for each game paint a broad swipe across the
particular game universe each describes. Unfortunately, the river that
runs wide does not run deep. At most, you just get surface details,
with little specifics. (That's how they hook you into buying their
sourcebooks)
Usually, to get a fairly large pile of source material, you need to
plunk down for the Core Rulebook, The Player's Handbook, and at least
a few other books.
If you're just looking for the most background/source material for
your buck, the Vampire: the Masquerade CD-ROM should be your best bet.
It contains the full texts to six important Vampire rulebooks. (Plus,
there's a 3-D mapcreator program that could make cityscapes just as
easily for SR as it does for V:tM)
It's about $50, but the Sourcebooks it contains would run you close to
$100.
Unfortunately, there's not a similar product for Mage, and the good
background material is spread between so many books, I wouldn't know
where to begin to reccomend.
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--
-- Paul Gettle (pgettle@********.net)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:11455339 (RSA 1024, created 97/08/08)
625A FFF0 76DC A077 D21C 556B BB58 00AA
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 22:32:30 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <tkerby@***01.ny.us.ibm.net>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
In-Reply-To: <a365364b.354e77c9@***.com>
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On 4 May 98 at 22:22, Ereskanti wrote:
> Okay, that did it...I'm in the Shadow of 30....how old is anyone
> else??? I know I -CAN'T- be the oldest one on the list...
I'll be 32 this year, Keith. I'm pretty sure that David Hinkley is
the oldest though, if he was in the fifth grade when Kennedy was
shot. (Wow!)
Avenger is up there too, but I haven't seen him lately.
--
Drekhead
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 22:35:52 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
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In a message dated 5/4/98 1:31:30 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
mc23@**********.COM writes:
> Damn, I thought I was just a year younger. No wonder the math didn't
> work. It might also have something to do with you being a teenager for 10
> years. B>]#
> My 29th birthday was yesterday.
>
Well, that works nice and congratulations....now you are in the Shadow of
30...have fun while you can...my mother is working on something nasty to
happen to me...quick, anyone wanna do a run on a woman who knows every
governmental official (state and federal) in the American Southwest on a
personal basis and does a lot of them's taxes....?????
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 22:37:03 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: On with the show...
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In a message dated 5/4/98 2:20:06 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
nomad74@*******.COM writes:
> >Now it might have been Jefferson that said, and I paraphrase for not
> >having the quote,
> > If I was left with only one right it would be Freedom of Speech,
> and
> >with that one I would win back all the others.
>
> Hey, it was in my American History book. Don't blame me, blame the
> pooblick edjukashun sistym.
>
> -Vagabond
>
Yeppers, it was both of 'em.
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 22:40:18 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: (OT)Gulf war (was: What's on the Trid?)
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In a message dated 5/4/98 4:35:42 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
dhinkley@***.ORG writes:
> You feel old, I was in 5th grade when Kennedy was shot. In training
> at Fort Benning when Siagon fell and out of the Army by the Gulf War.
>
Oh WOW!!! I found someone in the same age range as my former
players...coolsville...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 22:41:35 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Harleys and Pumpguns
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In a message dated 5/4/98 4:42:25 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
dhinkley@***.ORG writes:
> There is another way. Chrome the shotgun and then mount it to a
> chomed part of the frame by the seat. Believe it or not it just
> "disappears". I lived in a town that did this to the shotguns the
> Motorcycle units carried. I do not want to think of how many times I
> saw one of those bikes before I noticed the shotgun nor how many
> times it took to confirm that what I thought I saw was what I saw.
>
This still reminds me of that guy I saw on the motorcycle going from Phoenix,
through Tempe, on his way into the mountains...enough weapons for two big
fights...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 22:45:15 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Rigger tank? [was Re : Ridreless blitzen]
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In a message dated 5/4/98 4:59:03 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
evamarie@**********.net writes:
> What is a "rigger tank"? The rigger does not need any special
> seating,
> etc, to rig. If he wants saftey seating, and such, those are available
> in both rigger books. If you really are ludicrously safety concious,
> rig from a "Stabilization Unit"- basic book, biotech equipment. It's
> given a weight, and I'd say it ocupies as much space as a bed or
> non-folding bench seat.
>
My personal take on what a "Rigger Tank" is, is it's nothing more than a
seperately sealed section/seat where the Rigger is heavily protected. Want an
idea on this? Take the Largest Side-Car option from the R2 and give it
everything you can nearly imagine, including some armor. The "Load" is
reduced from the trucks load, NOT the side-cars, and with a base 12CF for the
side car, that's -REALLY- cool. We've done this as the "ejection pods" on
specialized aircraft in our games, just for the real fun of it.
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 22:57:11 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
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Unknown Senders said...
=====
> Is this a trick question??? Okay, sorry, don't mean to facetious, it's
just a
> funny thing to hear after -most- people know me fave character is 'the
> Enchanter'...
>
You mean the enchanter adept? Or a mage with Enchanting? I can imagine
the second one, but...
=====
Actually, Binder started out as an Enchanter Adept (Raven), but in our games,
we allow for massive development, and he recently started to develop the other
magical skills (using special Ordeals during Initiation to "claim" the
previously unreachable spheres).
So now he's a "Shaman" of Ometeotl, the Aztlaner God of Creation (going on the
basis that "Raven" is also one of the "Creator Gods" from the
Amerindian
Beliefs (Hopi, Pima and Apache...IIRC), it was a kind of "evolution" if you
will.
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 13:02:07 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Geoff Skellams <geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Shadowrun Discussion, Ereskanti wrote:
> Okay, that did it...I'm in the Shadow of 30....how old is anyone
else??? I
> know I -CAN'T- be the oldest one on the list...
I turn 28 in about 3 weeks time. I was not quite 21 when the offensive
side of the Gulf War broke out.
For the record, the build up of allied troops began in late 1990 and
they went on the offensive in (IIRC) January of 1991.
cheers
Geoff
--
Geoff Skellams R&D - Tower Software
Email Address: geoff.skellams@*********.com.au
Homepage: http://www.towersoft.com.au/staff/geoff/
ICQ Number: 2815165
"That rates about a 9.5 on my weird-shit-o-meter"
- Will Smith in "Men in Black"
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 23:08:40 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Joshua Bell <joshbell@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
In-Reply-To: <199805050221.TAA05992@*********.cobaltgroup.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 07:18 PM 5/4/98 -0700, you wrote:
>----------
>> From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
>> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
>> Subject: Re: Talismongering
>> Date: Monday, May 04, 1998 6:58 PM
>>
>> In a message dated 5/4/98 5:51:49 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>> rogan@******.ORG writes:
>>
>> Does anyone use the Enchanting skill and talismonger things on a
>> regular basis for their characters?
I use it ocasionally for my mage when he needs money:
1. Simply buy the radicals for Oriculum (sp?) and take a monh off of
shadowrunning.
Then roll enchanting, TN 10 - Magic (Usually 6+) = TN of 4 - 2.
Each sucess is 1 unit of Oriculum... worth 88,000Y
Even at "fence" prices of 50% that is 44,000Y which is the ammount of money
the radicals cost, Most mages/shamans can make 4-5 sucessess netting the
mage a total of (176,000Y - 220,000Y) for 1 months work! That amount of
nuyen can then be increased by negotiating with the fence (starts at 50%)...
(Although I as a GM only allow this once per game year, and usually for the
purchas of specific items, (I.e. Libraries, Lifestyles, and other big
ticket items...)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 13:10:12 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Geoff Skellams <geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU>
Subject: Surgeons as Riggers?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I just heard a report on the radio that in an Australian first, a
surgeon has used a robot to perform surgery by remote control. I didn't
catch the whole story, but I think the main surgeon was at a remote site
and there was a human surgeon in the operating theatre in case there was
a problem with the robots.
This brought me back to an idea I had the other day on the bus
on the way to work. In 205X, could some surgeons be very specialised
forms of riggers? Given that at the moment, there is a lot of surgery
being done with laproscopes (I had my gall bladder out by laproscope in
'93) and the story relayed above, could a surgeon benefit from a VCR
which is hooked to the miniature tools used in surgery?
just another thought for a wet afternoon in Canberra
Geoff
--
Geoff Skellams R&D - Tower Software
Email Address: geoff.skellams@*********.com.au
Homepage: http://www.towersoft.com.au/staff/geoff/
ICQ Number: 2815165
"That rates about a 9.5 on my weird-shit-o-meter"
- Will Smith in "Men in Black"
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 05:11:25 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <runefo@***.uio.no>
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Organization: The University of Oslo
Subject: Hermetic vs. Shamanic mages
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While taking a brisk walk outside, pondering exactly how I can make a
fair rule which makes a high-strength bow not quite so good an
anti-air defence, I had this thought -
What if hermetic mages simply were shamans following the totem of
science? A totem with a lot of differences from the others, but with
*exactly* the same basics. It would explain why some hermetic mages
become insect shamans, why they have the same spells, same abilites,
etcetera. It also goes with the thread earlier, about science as
religion. It's more an image, a way of interpretation, than a rule.
On another note, I'd believe the ratio of mages in cities like
Seattle would be a lot higher than the global average, simply because
corporations would 'drain' third world nations for those with magical
talent and move them to their 'home ground'. No, they wouldn't get
*all* or anything like that, but enough to skew the ratio more than a
little.
--
Fade
And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 05:11:25 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <runefo@***.uio.no>
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Organization: The University of Oslo
Subject: Re: On with the show... (Essence reduction)
In-Reply-To: <199805031147.NAA01448@****2.xs4all.nl>
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Gurth wrote:
> > I am new to Newsgroups/Messages and so I just posted what I thought was
> > cool, and if it IRITAITED some of you..sorry, I guess I got a little OUT
> > THERE too fast.
>
> I didn't see any problem with your post, but I wouldn't use it myself.
> Some people are more easily irritated than others, though.
About the same impression I got. There's one detail I'd like to bring
to light. I don't see how all cyberware can be easily reduced
in essence cost... in particular structural cyberware. If you install
a cyberlimb, it's a cyberlimb - you can't make it smaller, or a
partial replacement, or whatever. If you install titanium bone
lacing, it has to retain its mass and shape to remain effective at
what it does, and so on. Much of the headware might be easier, of
course, but still...
And yes, if you read an earlier post of mine on cyberware and full
borgs, the discerning listmember has realized by now I contradict
myself.
I have an impression that much cyber which doesn't take much 'space',
but is drastic in its interaction with the brain or the body, has an
elevated essence cost. That also implies that while the cyberware
itself can be minimized, there's another cost which cannot be
proportionally reduced without reducing its interaction (effect).
And vice versa. (Of course, it's 90% certain that's for game balance
reasons, but we should think of it as having a basis in 'reality'.).
Or should we? Well, that's another discussion.
In one of the books.. FoF, a comment states electronics is reduced in
cost and size by 10% P.A, by the way. It's a comment, not 'official',
of course.
--
Fade
And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 23:21:23 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
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In a message dated 5/4/98 10:09:52 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
joshbell@**********.COM writes:
> Then roll enchanting, TN 10 - Magic (Usually 6+) = TN of 4 - 2.
> Each sucess is 1 unit of Oriculum... worth 88,000Y
>
> Even at "fence" prices of 50% that is 44,000Y which is the ammount of
money
> the radicals cost, Most mages/shamans can make 4-5 sucessess netting the
> mage a total of (176,000Y - 220,000Y) for 1 months work! That amount of
> nuyen can then be increased by negotiating with the fence (starts at
50%)...
Actually, it starts at 30% and can get no higher than 40% IIRC...at least that
is what we've used here...occasionally, depending on degree of contact
connections we have, it can start higher or lower and reach higher (or lower)
as well.
> (Although I as a GM only allow this once per game year, and usually for the
> purchas of specific items, (I.e. Libraries, Lifestyles, and other big
> ticket items...)
Makes some sense...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 23:44:23 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Hermetic vs. Shamanic mages
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 5/4/98 10:33:27 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
runefo@***.UIO.NO writes:
> What if hermetic mages simply were shamans following the totem of
> science? A totem with a lot of differences from the others, but with
> *exactly* the same basics. It would explain why some hermetic mages
> become insect shamans, why they have the same spells, same abilites,
> etcetera. It also goes with the thread earlier, about science as
> religion. It's more an image, a way of interpretation, than a rule.
TWISTED EVIL I LIKE IT!!! Of course, this is not trying to bring up -THAT-
discussion again...
> On another note, I'd believe the ratio of mages in cities like
> Seattle would be a lot higher than the global average, simply because
> corporations would 'drain' third world nations for those with magical
> talent and move them to their 'home ground'. No, they wouldn't get
> *all* or anything like that, but enough to skew the ratio more than a
> little.
This is a good thought, except that it mentioned the "world average" being the
100 (or whatever) to 1 thing...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 22:37:01 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Gamer Registry
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Does anyone know of a Shadowrun gamer's registry? I'm currently looking
at huge slab of time this summer, and would like to find a Shadowrun
group. If anyone knows of one (or hell, if you've got a game in Houston
over the summer), do you think y'all could drop me a line?
***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
"Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn lasts
forever"
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
"Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo the
better part of humor."
aka Ellegon, Working at making Cannon canon
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are crunchy
and good with ketchup."
--------[Geek Code Block]-----------
GED/GSS d- s++:+ a-- C++ W w+ PS+.5 PE- Y+ t+
5+ X+ R*+.5 !tv+ b+.5 DI+ D- G e h !r-- !y+
-------[End Geek Code Block]-------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:03:12 +1200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: Surgeons as Riggers?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Quoth Geoff Skellams (1510 5-5-98 NZT):
>I just heard a report on the radio that in an Australian first, a
>surgeon has used a robot to perform surgery by remote control. I didn't
>catch the whole story, but I think the main surgeon was at a remote
site
>and there was a human surgeon in the operating theatre in case there
was
>a problem with the robots.
> This brought me back to an idea I had the other day on the bus
>on the way to work. In 205X, could some surgeons be very specialised
>forms of riggers? Given that at the moment, there is a lot of surgery
>being done with laproscopes (I had my gall bladder out by laproscope in
>'93) and the story relayed above, could a surgeon benefit from a VCR
>which is hooked to the miniature tools used in surgery?
>
>just another thought for a wet afternoon in Canberra
I don't see why not; this sort of stuff would be ideal for those
operations that were bigger than nanites normally handle and too small
for drastic invasive stuff (maybe toxin exhalers, filter systems, stuff
like that)
Of course, there's all sorts of things one could do with this. Given
the right ID, a rigger could masquerade as a surgeon as a cover
(infiltration into medical research labs, an alibi with the Star, et
cetera). A surgeon looking for fun and excitement could start
moonlighting as a rigger-runner (okay, he's got all the money he could
want, but what does he do for kicks? Maybe golf doesn't do it for him).
Or perhaps, when the runners hit her facility, the Deltaware surgeon
they're 'extracting' figures "Hell, robots are robots" and starts
remote-rigging a combat-drone to save her hide.
Danyel Woods
9604801@********.ac.nz
'Are you deliberately trying to drive me insane?'
'The universe is already mad. Anything else would be
redundant.'
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 01:12:25 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
In-Reply-To: <a365364b.354e77c9@***.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|> From: Shadowrun Discussion On Behalf Of Ereskanti
|> Sent: May 4, 1998 10:22 PM
|> Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
|> Okay, that did it...I'm in the Shadow of 30....how old is anyone
|> else??? I
|> know I -CAN'T- be the oldest one on the list...
No sir, you are not. I am older than that. 36 to be precise. [Oh no! I
posted, I can't believe they tempted me into posting.]
Oh well, guess my tirade didn't get me dumped for some strange reason.
So, after a period of cooling down I've decided to try again. Of course if
my dumping has only been delayed because Alan is too busy, then this might
be one of my last posts. Note that I have complided to the posting
requirments [I hope], even though I still see nothing wrong with the way I
was posting before.
BTW, I refuse to get into a debate about posting styles, like last time.
So, plese don't bother writing to me about that. However, if there are any
technical difficulties, such as when I was using the TAB character, please
do let me know.
So, either this is my swan song, or the start of a new reformed Katt
post.
Katt Freyson
ICQ UIN 3337155
Montreal, Canada
http://www.dsuper.net/~katt
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 01:20:04 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: FASA's On/Off Course?
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I am asking the question of exactly what the subject says. Is FASA drifting
on/off course in it's storyline. I am not implementing a Spoiler Warning of
any kind, so just in case anyone may think this is a "sensitive topic", you
have been warned. NO BOOK is sacred in this post.
In your own opinions of course :)
My Opinion?
I think they are hitting a snag that I've suddenly started putting together.
I have noticed some things, between the more recent "editor guided novels" and
the sourcebooks that are either recently released or out now.
Lofwyr mentions being in control of the IE's in Technobabel.
There are possibilities that at least some of the IE's may be getting "removed
the game activities".
The Horrors are gone (good/bad/indifferent) thanks to a Dragon's Sacrifice.
Magic is being "reversed" in some aspects, better defined maybe, yes, that
much I give and accept. But the development of Magic within the game
mechanics of SR as a whole are taking a definite new tangent.
If I didn't know any better, I would say that certain people now in command of
this "RPG Ship" are definitely changing the course of it. I know two, no make
it three, people who have had conversations in attempts/negotiations to get
material published/accepted to FASA that have given me a similar story. They
were met with the response of "you have no idea what direction SR is going, go
away". At least in one of those individual's cases, the conversation was more
"graphically descriptive".
What is -SR- then?
I guess that is what I am wondering. And I mean to have a description go
beyond the concept of "it's a role playing game". I mean flat out, what is
it? What is it going to be? What do -WE- the consumer/players of it want it
to become overall? Are we going to have a vaguely magical cyberpunk game?
Are we going to have a well defined game with an obvious course of direction
to take? Are we going to have a list of ideas so vast open to us, that there
will literally too many things to do?
We (being several members of this list) have mentioned that FASA listens to us
at times, more so than many other RPG publishers do. Now I guess I want to
find out what FASA has apparently decided to put forth for our general
perusal.
I know that people like Steve Kenson and Jon Szeto are occasional members and
participants. I know that Steve has given a bunch of information for our
general perusal and feedback. But I also know that the feedback didn't at
least to the List indicate that much, if any, of it would be taken to heart.
No, I don't know anything as being "Written In Stone" or "Unchanging".
I
guess my concerns also lie in the area of "usable interest" or "desiring to
play it".
Ideas, Guesses, Flames, Retorts, Commentary, Peanuts, Popcorn???
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 01:23:20 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 5/5/98 12:15:17 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
katt@******.NET writes:
> So, either this is my swan song, or the start of a new reformed Katt
> post.
>
Let's all hope that it's a Katt that isn't going to explode and write nasty
letters to the list...(mumblesgrumbleschucklessmirkslaughaloud)
And BTW, YOU DID IT!!! The posting worked ... I am so proud of you!!!
(crocodile tears being shed here of course, lots of dramatic acting and at
least three undeserved Oscars being passed around)....
:P
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 01:55:15 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jessica Grota <grota@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Harleys and Pumpguns
MIME-Version: 1.0
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The Vagabond wrote:
>
> [snip can I put my assault shotgun or deck under by Harley's seat?]
<snip>
> By R2's standards, I would say he could fit a deck under there OR a
> Remington Roomsweeper(or some other kind of *very* sawed-off shotgun),
> but not an *assault* Shotgun.
Hmm. I've seen motorcycles with the trunk BEHIND the seat as well as
under. I think a cyberdeck would fit easily, and probably a bundle of
clothing, etc, maybe a sawed-off. A harley is generally a big friggin'
bike...Of course, that's just going by what I know. I don't have RBB OR
the RBB2.
--Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 01:58:37 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jessica Grota <grota@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkinism at it's finest
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> I would have to disagree with this I would rather see someone with
> muscle augmentation 4 and "Normal or alpha grade cyber" Than someone
> doing like was done with with massive amounts of Delta ware. IE Jett and
> creations like that... IMO it makes more sense to this for a corp and/or
> other organization to do this than spending a great deal more for delta
> grade cyber...
For the smaller pieces of stuff (ie, under .75) Delta just isn't worth
it. Cybereyes, etc are just fine with normal grade, as long as you
aren't trying to pack every piece of ware in the book into a body.
err, is Jett one of the acceptable ones, or one of the ones who's packed
too damn full? I'm a bit groggy from painkillers ATM and I can't quite
focus... :)
The Jettster
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 02:03:35 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Tournament GMing
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:29 PM 5/4/98 -0400, Erik Jameson wrote these timeless words:
>Okay, I've finally decided that I will GM Shadowrun at the San Diego Comic
>Con. Not many of you actually care, I know.
>
Some of us do, Erik :]
If I lived even remotely close to SD, I'd love to go... But that's a bit
out of my range, especially since I've got Origins and Gen Con coming up...
>But I've never GMed at a convention or anything. I can GM acceptably well
>(while I occassionaly forget rules here and there, my players love my
>playacting of the NPCs, especially Johnny Rotten the fixer), but that's
>almost always been a group of friends or mostly friends.
>
>So does anyone have any advice? Any web pages that give pointers to this
>sort of thing (like maybe GenCon's page)? Anybody actually out there GMed
>for a tournament or convention?
>
I know a couple of people here have... *GRAcoughNITE*
I'll be heading up the FASA SRTCG TOurney at Origins his year, and will be
helping out at the FASA SR RPG Tourney as well, so I wouldn;t mind hearing
some advise as well... However, I know Gen Con and Andon's pages are
useful for this stuff...
>I imagine I probably should have enough pre-generated PCs for everyone, in
>a mix that's appropriate. And a pile of dice. All the sourcebooks I'll
>need. Caffiene. Several writing utensils and note paper. My GM screen
>since I have one (I think it's actually a SR1 screen too, but I haven't
>used it in a while; I keep forgetting it and it's not terribly important
>anyway; I don't use much written material anyway). Can anyone think of
>anything else?
>
Patience, creativity, and a backup plan :]
If your lucky, you'll get a group of creative players (I think at least 75%
of all Con Players are at least semi-decent players, in my experience...
Unfortunately the other 25% of them make up for this :( ). And creative
players are experts at completely trashing an adventure by doing the
totally unexpected.
>Thanks all.
>
N/P. though I'm not sure how much this might help...
Good luck!
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka Chaos, aka a lot of others! :]
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:06:50 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Geoff Skellams <geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Surgeons as Riggers?
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On Shadowrun Discussion, Danyel N Woods[SMTP:9604801@********.AC.NZ]
wrote:
> >I just heard a report on the radio that in an Australian first, a
> >surgeon has used a robot to perform surgery by remote control. I
didn't
> >catch the whole story, but I think the main surgeon was at a remote
> >site and there was a human surgeon in the operating theatre in case
there
> >was a problem with the robots.
>
To follow this up (I've just heard the story again on subsequent
news bulletins), the operating surgeon was in fact at a remote site. He
was 8km from the hospital where the patient was having her gallbladder
removed. The remote control data was transmitted via a phone line to the
hospital, where is was fed to the robot.
The cost of the operation was about A$1,000,000, although it is
thought this will become a lot cheaper once all of the hardware is in
place. It is thought it could be a viable solution for remote areas,
such as the Australia outback, where residents rely on things like the
Royal Flying Doctor Service, which costs many millions of dollars per
year.
> > This brought me back to an idea I had the other day on the
bus
> >on the way to work. In 205X, could some surgeons be very specialised
> >forms of riggers? Given that at the moment, there is a lot of surgery
> >being done with laproscopes (I had my gall bladder out by laproscope
in
> >'93) and the story relayed above, could a surgeon benefit from a VCR
> >which is hooked to the miniature tools used in surgery?
> >
> >just another thought for a wet afternoon in Canberra
>
> I don't see why not; this sort of stuff would be ideal for those
> operations that were bigger than nanites normally handle and too small
> for drastic invasive stuff (maybe toxin exhalers, filter systems,
stuff
> like that)
>
It could also make sense for "normal" surgery - it could make
certain operations a lot less intrusive than they currently are.
> Of course, there's all sorts of things one could do with this. Given
> the right ID, a rigger could masquerade as a surgeon as a cover
> (infiltration into medical research labs, an alibi with the Star, et
> cetera). A surgeon looking for fun and excitement could start
> moonlighting as a rigger-runner (okay, he's got all the money he could
> want, but what does he do for kicks? Maybe golf doesn't do it for
him).
> Or perhaps, when the runners hit her facility, the Deltaware surgeon
> they're 'extracting' figures "Hell, robots are robots" and starts
> remote-rigging a combat-drone to save her hide.
*That* conjures up some interesting images. Adds new meaning to the term
"surgical strike" :)
cheers
Geoff
--
Geoff Skellams R&D - Tower Software
Email Address: geoff.skellams@*********.com.au
Homepage: http://www.towersoft.com.au/staff/geoff/
ICQ Number: 2815165
"That rates about a 9.5 on my weird-shit-o-meter"
- Will Smith in "Men in Black"
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 02:03:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: (OT)Gulf war (was: What's on the Trid?)
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At 01:54 AM 5/4/98 -0600, Lander Williams wrote these timeless words:
>>> >when was the gulf war again? '92? i was just wrapping up Highschool :)
>>
>>I would have been around 12. A bit older than Adam, I think. But only by
>>a couple months! :p I still have a sweatshirt that was supposed to be a
>>memorial to the Gulf war.
>>
I was in... 11th grade... that puts it at about early 91, I think...
And yeah, I feel really old :]
But not as old as Pete :]
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka Chaos, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Cuddly Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome and Archive
Answer Ork Decker!
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"Bill gates is just a monocle and a Persian Cat away from being a James
Bond villian."
-- Dennis Miller on HBO
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:48:09 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Geoff Skellams <geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Tournament GMing
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On Shadowrun Discussion, Erik Jameson[SMTP:erikj@****.COM] wrote:
> But I've never GMed at a convention or anything. I can GM acceptably
well
> (while I occassionaly forget rules here and there, my players love my
> playacting of the NPCs, especially Johnny Rotten the fixer), but
that's
> almost always been a group of friends or mostly friends.
>
I've done more GMing at cons than I care to remember (I GMed my
first con game in 1990, and apart from a break between December 91 and
January 93, I have GMed at least one con game every year ever since.
Most years I have done two or three and sometimes more. I've even GMed
at a con in another country halfway round the world (2 sessions of
"Deperately Seeking Elvis" at Gencon 94). I guess I kind of qualify to
reply to this one :)
I've even gone so far as to write a module which had no plot. It
was a cross between Space 1889 and Castle Falkenstein and the whole
point of the game was to sit around and crap on in character. It worked
brilliantly (at least as far as I am concerned).
Playacting of NPCs is great in a con game. It makes the NPCs
really come to life and adds a lot of colour to the module. The group I
used to write with tended to have the "cast of thousands" appraoch to
GMing - if you weren't doing anything in a session, you went along and
helped play the NPCs. It frees up the main GM to run the game, it makes
the NPCs more interactive and it also means that you have a backup GM in
case the party decides to do something really stupid like split up.
> So does anyone have any advice? Any web pages that give pointers to
this
> sort of thing (like maybe GenCon's page)? Anybody actually out there
GMed
> for a tournament or convention?
>
The biggest thing I can suggest is that you need to be EXTREMELY
flexible. Be prepared to throw the module over your shoulder and make
the rest of the session up as you go along. I've lost track of the
number of times I've had teams run off on tangents and do something the
designer (which has been me on occasions) hadn't even dreamt of. If you
can make up a decent story on the fly, you should be able to cope OK
with con games. One of the best games I have ever played was a session
where the GM looked at the module he had been given, decided it was
crap, threw it over his shoulder and winged the entire thing. We didn't
know.
Certainly in Australia, convention games are a LOT more intense
than normal play-at-home campaign games. People have a tendency to get
up and act things out a bit more.
> I imagine I probably should have enough pre-generated PCs for
everyone, in
> a mix that's appropriate. And a pile of dice. All the sourcebooks
I'll
> need. Caffiene. Several writing utensils and note paper. My GM
screen
> since I have one (I think it's actually a SR1 screen too, but I
haven't
> used it in a while; I keep forgetting it and it's not terribly
important
> anyway; I don't use much written material anyway). Can anyone think
of
> anything else?
>
Pre-generated characters are a much better idea. Otherwise,
people are going to spend the entire session coming up with the
characters. You won't even get a chance to think about playing.
When you are making characters, give them lots of good hooks for
the players to work with. If you can summarise their personality in a
few words that's even better, as it gives a player a quick line into the
character's mind. A few of my friends (who I have written quite a few
games with) used to include a couple of quotes the character would say.
What I tend to do with characters is detail their background, where they
got their training, how they came to be where they are, any major
incidents in their life, how they made their friends and enemies, &c. I
then have a separate section where I detail what the character looks
like and what their personality is.
The thing is though, you have to be able to do all of this in
only a couple of pages. If you have too much, the players either spend
too much time reading them, or they give up and play with only half the
knowledge they need.
Having all of this information allows you to make sure the
characters backgrounds are intertwined with the plot. It makes it more
interesting than having the run appear as though it could happen to a
bunch of random people plucked off the streets. If you can work the
characters contacts and enemies into the plot it becomes a whole lot
more coherent.
As far as I am concerned, at a convention, the story you are
telling is far more important than the rules (I also tend to have this
philosophy in my home games as well). If you are comfortable with it,
dispense with as many game mechanics as you possibly can. It saves a lot
of time, and is very important for maintaining atmosphere. At a
convention game, this is really important.
Oh yeah, if the players do decide to split up, don't just
concentrate on the group that headed off in the direction you wanted to
whole party to go. Make sure the poor splitter gets a chance to do
something. Having been the poor sucker at the recieving end of this, it
wrecks a session when you are forced to sit around and do nothing for
30+ minutes because the GM had no idea what to do with you.
In summary,
Have all the characters done up in advance. Have several copies
of each, with each set in a separate envelope. You'd be surprised just
how much time this can save.
Know the plot of the story well. There is nothing more boring
than a GM who "reads out the contents of the box", at least in my mind.
If you know the scenario you are going to be running, then go to town
with the descriptive stuff. Make it up as you go along and try to build
as much atmosphere as possible.
Keep things flowing. Try to avoid the "go to point A, beat up
the monster, collect the widget; go to point B,..." type of module. It
becomes tedious and predictable.
Try to keep the rules in the background as much as possible. If
you can think of a way to streamline task resolution, then use it. This
can be especially important in combat. Try to keep things moving as fast
as possible. You can't always do this, but the more you can, the better
the game is going to be.
Above all, be flexible. Go with where the players are going.
Don't force them to go where you want them to. If you can make them go
where you want them to while making them think that that is where they
want to go, then it makes things a lot easier for you.
anyhow, enough of my rambling. Hope this gives you a few tips and
pointers
Geoff (who, when he thinks about it, has GMed more than 50 sessions of
more than a dozen games in the past 8 years).
--
Geoff Skellams R&D - Tower Software
Email Address: geoff.skellams@*********.com.au
Homepage: http://www.towersoft.com.au/staff/geoff/
ICQ Number: 2815165
"That rates about a 9.5 on my weird-shit-o-meter"
- Will Smith in "Men in Black"
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 00:24:00 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Nesius <nesius@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Vampires ( & Mages )
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980504151934.08370018@****.fbiz.com>
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At 3:17 PM -0700 5/4/98, Erik Jameson wrote
>
>BUT it was mentioned by Robert Nessius earlier that he used several items
>from that gaming series to provide culture references for Shadowrun,
>specifically mentioning Vampire and Mage.
>
>I'm somewhat curious to tell the truth now. If I were only to purchase one
>book for Vampire info and one book for Mage info, what should I buy?
>Especially if I didn't want to deal with a lot of game mechanics nonsense,
>just background materials that could be mined for Shadowrun purposes.
>
Hi Erik,
As someone mentioned earlier, the White Wolf world is spread over serveral
source books. However, I think I can give you some good pointers that will
give you the bulk of what your looking for in a short amount of time.
I'm posting this to the list for the benefit of other GM's wishing to
learn a little more about what White Wolf's world has to offer in a
complementing fashion to Shadowrun.
The biggest area where I think some of the WoD (World of Darkness) themes
can add a powerful and compelling ambience to SR is in the area of Vampires.
Vampire: The Masquerade was the first big book White Wolf put out, and I
think the vision of Kindred (vampiric) society presented in this book is
quite frankly the most cool, well thought out, gothic, angst-ridden visions
of kindred society that I've seen.
Specifically, you'll want to look at Chapter 2. 90% of what is really
useful and meaningful is in that chapter. Here's a quick run down:
Gothic theme - it's dark. there is angst. it's gothic.
Overpopulation - Strict rules govern kindred society for numerious reasons.
Making sure the heard is not culled too thin is one of them.
Attitude - Vampires are hunters. Mortals are the hunted. Mortals are
week, and flashes in the pan when compared to the lifespan of
a vampire. But in numbers, mortals are dangerous. Think Cattle.
One steer - no problem. A stampeding heard - problem. :)
The Beast - The main tenent in Vampire is the struggle between succumbing
to the beast, and maintaining one's humanity. The more bad
things you do, the more "out of touch" you get with humanity.
The more out of touch you are, the easier it is to frenzy, and
do things which lower your humanity more.
The Prince - (A very cool concept). Major cities often have a powerful
vampire who is the Prince. He is not the ruler, and resident
vampires need not swear fealty too him, but he is the final
arbiter in kindred conflicts. Think of him as a shepard who
punishes sheep that stray to far by having them for dinner. He
keeps them in line. Many princes do actually issue edicts,
and such. They are in effect as long as he can enforce them.
If he can't enforce them, he will probably lose power and status.
The Traditions - VERY COOL roleplay devices for kindred society. There are 6.
1st - The Masquerade - keep mortals thinking vamps are a myth.
(Probably not quite as important in the sixth world of SR)
2nd - Domain - Your domain is your turf. None may challange your word in your
domain. Naturally, the Prince's "domain" is rather broad. ;) And there
may be differing opinions about where one person's domain starts, and
another's begins. (Vampiric turf wars!)
3rd - Progeny - You can't create other vamps w/o permission (from your
elder or prince). Violation results in death of progeny and sire.
4th - The Accounting - until your progeny have been released, their screw ups
are on your head.
5th - Hospitality - Out of respect for another's domain, when you arrive at a
new city, you must present yourself (to the prince usually). If you are
not accepted/acknowledge, you are nothing.
6th - Destruction - Destroying a fellow vampire is forbidden. Only the elder
vamps may call Blood Hunts.
Along with the 6th tradition, there is something else that goes with that -
Diablerie - draining a vampire dry of all blood AND essence (which in white
wolf's world makes you more powerful. Neat concept, eh?) Diablerie is
frowned upon, and committing this heinous act will taint your aura.
Elysium - portions of the Prince's domain that are free of violence. (think
Holy Ground in Highlander) - No violence allowed. OFten times these
are art museums and such.
That's basically the fundamental concepts that can help give your kindred
society in your game world some structure. There is some more nice material
to help out with this - Some nice concepts on what ghouls are, blood bonds
(like essence drain addiction), and what RP effects they might have.
There is also more material on politcal bodies like the Primogen
Council (advisors to the Prince of a city), Justicars (Judges in the
vampiric criminal justice system), Archons (minions of the Justicars), etc..
As for the Mages, it's more difficult. However, from a cultural aspect,
here are some ideas that have influenced (or will influence our games.)
A) Initiate groups are not just magically actives - Note that it only
costs 3 points of karma to join the group. In our game, we allow mortals
who are "morally/spiritually" alligned to a group's cause to join. In the
Mage system, people like this are often considered Acolytes, or Consors -
basically servents of the mages. I think this facet is overlooked in
a lot of SR campaigns.
B) Just as the Vampires have Clans, the Mages have "Traditions (or groups.)"
Anyway, some of the groups conceptually fit very well into the SR world.
For instance - the Syndicate - a broad group of people devoted to making
money and amassing power. Several of these exist in SR - Mafia, Yakuza,
Triads, etc... In Mage, the magically actives in each of these groups
would probably all be "syndicate" mages - part of the same machine.
But in SR, I would allow "syndicate" style initate groups for each major
group - Yakuza, Mafia, etc... The point is not to map Mage's "syndicate"
into SR. Just to use the concept of it to strengthen the theme in the SR
world.
The Akashic Brotherhood (martial artists) have given me some ideas for
Physical adept initiate groups.
Overall though, SR's magic system is pretty well developed. I just don't
need as much help in this area defining a society. There are three books
on magic in SR. How many books are there on Vampires?
One other system where White Wolf's ideas can help is "Werewolf." I
actually hated Werewolf when it came out. White Wolf went from "Check out
our vampires - gothic, full of angst, a cool origin story and gameworld."
to Werewolf and said "Check out our werewolves - Nature's
immune system." After "V:tM", I could only look at Werewolf, scratch my
head,
and say "What the F?????" :) However, some of Whitewolf's ideas for werewolves
make sense.
Basically - it comes down to this. Nature is being corrupted - Gaia is
being destroyed. Werewolves are fighting a war (the Apocolypse) against
the forces destroying nature. As such, they are combat monsters. Werewolves
have different tribes, that have preferences for habitat, etc.. Another
interesting system are ideas for how the phase of a moon a were was
born under affects him. Some neat ideas there.
Take that and look at SR were's. Combat masters. Gee, there's one thing
in common. ;) The idea of phases of the moon affecting them a little more
than what it does in SR seems like a fun RP thing. I'll be looking more into
that myself.
There is one last area where White Wolf's system helps SR in a very
positive way, and this is something I'd advise most GM's to consider. It's
the
concept of Nature and Demeanor. You're Nature is your true self. Your
Demeanor is how other's perceive you. White Wolf has a pretty comprehensive
list of these in most of their main rulebooks. What we did is we had
each person pick one of the descriptions for Nature and Demeanor that
best fit their character. Then we had a category on our Karma Sheet for
called "Demeanor." If we thought people conformed to their demeanor, they
received a Karmic reward for it. If you're looking for a mechanism to help
give people guideposts by which to rp their characters, this is an excellent
mechanism, imo. :) (This was my old GM's idea. It worked great!)
That's about it. Sorry this got long, and I hope it is of some interest
to the list. And just to make sure the message is clear, the only ideas
and concepts that I've been intersted in brining over to SR myself are
the ideas that enhance roleplay. I'm not interested in merging the
two systems from any sort of mechanics perspective. I dont want my players
looking at my game world and saying "Gee. It's World of Darkness w/
SR mechanics. If they see a few things I borrowed, that's okay. But really,
I want to play SR. But as the frequent discussions here point out often,
nothing's perfect, especially Book Rule Shadowrun. :)
To answer you original question, Erik, the two books I'd reccommend are
Vampire: The Masquerade, and Werewolf: The Apocolypse. If you'd like
to look at Mage stuff, that's a bit more difficult. The main "Mage: The
Acension"book will get you pointed in the right direction. I personally
found the various mage factions interesting, so you may want to peruse the
tradition books (short 30-50 page books that cover the various factions in
detail).
There is one last book from the World of Darkness I'd reccommend to any gamer.
Destiny's Price - it's a mage book. But it has a very gritty and raw
depiction of life on the streets. And what's more, there is a one page
RANT/DIATRIBE on "What is Street Wise?" that anyone playing a SR character
w/ Street Ettiquette should read.
Cobra had some good insights about some other things the systems can
offer as well. Paul Gettle mentioned the V:tM CD-ROM (I didn't know
about that. Thanks Paul!)
Hope this helps.
-Rob
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 02:47:14 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John Dukes <dukes@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Hermetic vs. Shamanic mages
In-Reply-To: <199805050311.FAA02906@***.uio.no>
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>What if hermetic mages simply were shamans following the totem of
>science? A totem with a lot of differences from the others, but with
>*exactly* the same basics. It would explain why some hermetic mages
>become insect shamans, why they have the same spells, same abilites,
>etcetera. It also goes with the thread earlier, about science as
>religion. It's more an image, a way of interpretation, than a rule.
I seem to recall reading somewhere that Hermetics might be considered
"Shamans of Man". Cant recall exactly where though.
-Teeg
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 03:11:00 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
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>
>Okay, that did it...I'm in the Shadow of 30....how old is anyone
else??? I
>know I -CAN'T- be the oldest one on the list...
>
Ah, to be on the other side of 30 once again....(grin)
Coming up on my 37th summer, myself...
Tony Rabiola rabiola@**.netcom.com
Fourth and Sixth World Adept
Still working on the Fifth...
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:30:50 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Harleys and Pumpguns
In-Reply-To: <9805040935.AA00962@********.ai.fh-nuernberg.de>
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Fred Stoessel said on 11:35/ 4 May 98...
> Hoi. I just read the last entry and now have question concerning bikes.
> A player in my party is driving a harley scorpion. Now he wants to
> transport his deck or his assault shotgun under the seat. Is this
> possible?
IMHO a cyberdeck could fit under a motorcycle seat, if there's a
reasonable storage space there (like when it says "1 CF underseat" in the
RBB), after all it's about the size of a modern keyboard. I'd say no to a
shotgun; a small SMG could fit, but larger ones would be difficult I
think, let alone rifle-sized weapons.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:30:51 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Cyber and Body Index (was Re: Munchkinism at it's finest)
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losthalo said on 13:21/ 4 May 98...
> Yep. And I scoff as well. I'm going to soon be playing in a campaign with
> nothing available except what is in the basic rulebook. Never mind three
> supplements on cyber, one on weapons, two on magic, ad infinitum, we're
> just going to play good old-fashioned Shadowrun like mamma used to bake. :)
Hey, another one! :) Yesterday a few members of my group came to the
conclusion that to solve the current troubles we're in (caused by rivalry
and infighting between characters, thankfully not players (yet *Gurth
crosses his fingers*)) is to start again with brand-new characters, and
say all the other stuff didn't happen.
Anyway we linked this to an old idea of mine to start a campaign in 2050,
following the order FASA-published adventures came out in -- starting with
DNA/DOA, followed by Mercurial, and so on. Hardly anything is available
except what's in SRII, the Grimoire, and one or two other books subject to
GM approval. All the gear will only be for sale once the dates in the book
come by in the campaign -- no SSC until late 2050/early 2051, bioware
won't be available until 2052, and so on.
Now all we need to do is convince the other half of the group that this
is the best thing to do to solve the mess we're in...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:30:51 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
In-Reply-To: <17605.199805041049@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
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Spike said on 11:49/ 4 May 98...
> And verily, did Gurth hastily scribble thusly...
> |I wasn't paying too much attention to the news when that one started...
> |(For the record, I was about 6.)
>
> SIX!?
> Oh my aching bones...
> I was 22 when it started.
So you've suddenly gone from 30 to 40 years old in the space of a few
months? I was referring to the Iran-Iraq war, which started when I was
about 6. The other Gulf War was some 10 years later...
Spike said on 22:25/ 4 May 98...
> Eh? That wasn't CALLED the Gulf War. That was the Iran/Iraq war.
That WAS called the Gulf War (at least in this part of the world), until
Iraq invaded Kuwait, then that name was suddenly applied to the allied
efforts to get them out again. My guess is that if another war breaks out
there, it'll be called the Fourth Gulf War or something, to further
confuse those who pay attention to these things... :)
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:30:51 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Munchkinism at it's finest
In-Reply-To: <354DF2C1.55EBE462@****.com>
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Sheldon Rose said on 11:54/ 4 May 98...
> > But Overstress doesn't kill you dead...it gives you a +1 to all body
> > tests until you get rid of the excess bioware or raise your body.
> > Check Shadowtech.
>
> I did and looks pretty dangerous IMO it can will does kill street muscle
> just like to much cyber will do the same things. You can only put so
> much in before it bites you in the hoop.
But having too much bioware doesn't kill you _directly_. Get too much and
it won't be long before those damage resistance tests start going bad, but
it's not the bioware itself that kills you -- one of its side-effects
does.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:30:51 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Munchkinism at its finest
In-Reply-To: <354EAA8D.21BA@*********.com>
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Jessica Grota said on 1:58/ 5 May 98...
> For the smaller pieces of stuff (ie, under .75) Delta just isn't worth
> it. Cybereyes, etc are just fine with normal grade, as long as you
> aren't trying to pack every piece of ware in the book into a body.
The trick is to take cybereyes and then cram them full of delta-grade
enhancements, as that'll allow you to put up to 1 Essence point worth of
extra stuff in them instead of only half a point.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:30:50 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Mother Russia
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980504061902.0069dbf4@****.geocities.com>
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SThanatos said on 6:19/ 4 May 98...
> In regards to the Organizatskaya, I have located some intel on that topic,
> but nothing else. NERPS Underworld has a few pages on the Organizatskaya,
> and since I don't know the actual home of NERPS
http://nerps.home.ml.org/ gets you to the NERPS page.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:30:51 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <c66bef58.354ea185@***.com>
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Ereskanti said on 1:20/ 5 May 98...
> I am asking the question of exactly what the subject says. Is FASA drifting
> on/off course in it's storyline. I am not implementing a Spoiler Warning of
> any kind, so just in case anyone may think this is a "sensitive topic", you
> have been warned. NO BOOK is sacred in this post.
>
> In your own opinions of course :)
Naturally...
I haven't enjoyed the storylines in recent years very much, to be honest.
I liked Bug City and most of the stuff before that, but what came after
was a bit so-so for my taste. (Note that I'm talking about source material
which advances the "universe storyline" here, not rulebooks.) Mike
Mulvihill seems to have definite ideas where things should go, but from
what I've seen of them they're not really going where I'd like them to.
For one thing I don't like the annual storylines, where we have "the year
of crime," "the year of the corps," and so on. Neither do I like the idea
of having everything stepped up a notch to some kind of higher stakes
game, like it was supposed to after Dunkelzahn died.
Not that I know where it all should go instead... :)
I guess that counts as an "off course" vote...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 02:40:31 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Vagabond <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Surgeons as Riggers?
Content-Type: text/plain
>I just heard a report on the radio that in an Australian first, a
>surgeon has used a robot to perform surgery by remote control. I didn't
>catch the whole story, but I think the main surgeon was at a remote
site
>and there was a human surgeon in the operating theatre in case there
was
>a problem with the robots.
The same idea is presented in the "Terminator 2" ride at Universal
Studios(GREAT "big brother" corporate atmosphere). One of the ideas
presented in their "commercial" was "...and how about a surgeon who
could perform brain surgeory[Terminator-like arms jutting from a
hospital wall surrounding a patient's head]... without missing the
sunset[cut to a guy sitting on a beach with a laptop and some VR
gloves]?"
> This brought me back to an idea I had the other day on the bus
>on the way to work. In 205X, could some surgeons be very specialised
>forms of riggers? Given that at the moment, there is a lot of surgery
>being done with laproscopes (I had my gall bladder out by laproscope in
>'93) and the story relayed above, could a surgeon benefit from a VCR
>which is hooked to the miniature tools used in surgery?
I could maybe see a very famous, specialized surgeon having his own
Rigger to set that kind of thing up. I wouldn't think it would be
standard operating procedure, however. I can't see many patients eager
to have their doc do the operation from halfway across the world.
However, a specialized surgeon high in demand, may have to be in two
places(quite literally) at the same time.
Needless to say, I'm sure it wouldn't be cheap, either.
PS- I could be convinced that this would be a popular method of
street docs who 'specialize' in cortex bombs(for obvious reasons).
>:)
-Vagabond
"Under wandering stars I've grown"
________________________________________________________
<nomad74@*******.com> <ICQ 4297972>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 06:05:18 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <runefo@***.uio.no>
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Organization: The University of Oslo
Subject: Re: Vampires ( & Mages )
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980504151934.08370018@****.fbiz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Okay, I don't know much about White Wolf's games and truthfully, don't
> really care.
The rules lend a lot from Shadowrun, in case you ever want to try.
(Shadowrun is listed among the inspirational sources).
> BUT it was mentioned by Robert Nessius earlier that he used several items
> from that gaming series to provide culture references for Shadowrun,
> specifically mentioning Vampire and Mage.
Think I remember something like that, yes.
> I'm somewhat curious to tell the truth now. If I were only to purchase one
> book for Vampire info and one book for Mage info, what should I buy?
> Especially if I didn't want to deal with a lot of game mechanics nonsense,
> just background materials that could be mined for Shadowrun purposes.
Mage is drastically different from Shadowrun - magic is hidden,
practitioners is hunted by some dark cabals, the only limit on mages'
power is Paradox. Vampire is a lot easier to incorporate into
shadowrun - it would involve little or no change in game material.
(Unless you wanted to copy the game system as well.... could be done,
as it's similar, but probably not necessary.). In either case, most
of what you need is in the main rule book(s).
The most interesting idea in Vampire, in regard to shadowrun, is that
each skill test is from a *combination* of skill and attribute.
Translated to shadowrun - weightlifting would be (str+athletics)
dice, sprinting would be quickness+athletics, a normal firearms test
would be quickness+firearms, while marksmanship/sniping might be
intelligence + firearms. It would be interesting to use something
akin to that in SR, but it would have to be a new edition - it's too
big a change for just 'modifying' the system.
--
Fade
And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 05:34:00 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
> Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks) (Alexia Silverstein , Mon 12:47)
>
> After reading all the comments on this subject during the week, when
> we played Shadowrun on Friday, I put my boyfriend, the GM in a
> peculiar position when my bodyguard/"escort" wanted to call her City
> Official and "convince" him to give her the blueprints to a building
> our group had to infiltrate.
> The guys in the group (I'm the only female) didn't know what use I
> could be to them and I really couldn't do anything useful up till that
> point.
Why does it generally seem only FEMALE pc's are "useful" in this
manner, despite (rare) male PC's identical stats and skills? Isn't
sexism suposed to be a dead issue in SR? Our male "interactions
specialist" finds few "useful" NPC female (or homosexual) targets to
seduce, despite the "actual" portions being about 45% (and 5-10%),
IIRC. :(
A lot of fun is the skill "deviant psycology" coupled with a
"Madam"
contact who will hook you up with "special" clients. Well, at least,
its USEFUL. Really. Thats all I meant.... and its "classic"
cyberpunk, too, so don't blame me.
-Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 06:35:11 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: SThanatos <sthanatos@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Hermetic vs. Shamanic mages
In-Reply-To: <199805050311.FAA02906@***.uio.no>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Fade inscribed thus
:
>What if hermetic mages simply were shamans following the totem of
>science? A totem with a lot of differences from the others, but with
>*exactly* the same basics. It would explain why some hermetic mages
>become insect shamans, why they have the same spells, same abilites,
>etcetera. It also goes with the thread earlier, about science as
>religion. It's more an image, a way of interpretation, than a rule.
I suppose one could interpret hermetics that way. But keep in mind that
one of the biggest discrepancies in this arguement would be the
Elemental/Nature
Spirit differentiation. If mages were true Shamans of Science, they would
still
be bound by the limitations of nature spirit domains. Likewise, in the
Grimoire,
it states that a Shaman must always be true to the path of his Totem and never
question its purpose, lest he loose his powers permanently. But there are
many manifestations of the Hermetic path, and the basis of Hermetic magic
IS questioning.
I'm not saying this arguement isn't viable, it's just that there are so many
differences between a typical Shaman and a typical Hermetic, that they have
to be
classified seperatly.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:49:23 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980504173755.007c2d80@******.backbone.olemiss.edu> from
"Michael Broadwater" at May 4, 98 05:37:56 pm
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And verily, did Michael Broadwater hastily scribble thusly...
|>And verily, did Gurth hastily scribble thusly...
|>|I wasn't paying too much attention to the news when that one started...
|>|(For the record, I was about 6.)
|>
|>SIX!?
|>Oh my aching bones...
|>I was 22 when it started.
|
|So I was curious.
Ahhh...
I mustn't have read that one either...
(Or if I did, I must've skipped a bit.)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:56:48 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Radiation and Magic
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.93.980505104502.702A-100000@*******.qut.edu.au> from
"Quantum" at May 5, 98 10:52:56 am
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And verily, did Quantum hastily scribble thusly...
|Oooh... Interesting thought.
|However, here's something else to think about. If the magic cycles are
|dependant on cycles of the sun would different stellar systems have
|different periods?
Of COURSE they would.
After all, no sun is identical to any other.
What about all those suns that're larger or smaller. Their life-span and
eventual deaths will be massively different.
Smaller, and they'll just collapse to form a small cinder. A white dwarf.
In fact, I think that's what's thought of to be our ultimate fate.
Larger, and they go supernova.
Even larger, and it's black hole time.
|If so, couldn't mana be
|produced artificially...? :)
Doubtfull.
Even when (if) they do manage to get fusion working, a sun is one hell of a
lot more complex than just a simple nuclear reaction.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 12:03:46 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: (OT)Gulf war (was: What's on the Trid?)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980504014712.2a873e4a@*****.com> from "Bull" at
May 5,
98 02:03:33 am
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And verily, did Bull hastily scribble thusly...
|I was in... 11th grade... that puts it at about early 91, I think...
|
|And yeah, I feel really old :]
|
|But not as old as Pete :]
Bull... How can you feel OLD when you were still in SCHOOL when it kicked
off?
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 07:45:09 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paul Gettle <pgettle@********.NET>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <c66bef58.354ea185@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 01:20 AM 5/5/98 -0400, K wrote:
<<Snip discussion asking if SR is going the way we want it to>>
>Ideas, Guesses, Flames, Retorts, Commentary, Peanuts, Popcorn???
Isn't this what the little 'Comments' section of those Shadowrun
Registration/Survey cards is for? If you don't like the direction SR
is going, then tell FASA about it. The survey cards let them listen to
their existing customer base, and if they're like any good business,
they'd do best to listen closely.
Once you've given your feedback, if new product continues to
conceptually drift from what you think 'SR' is, vote with your wallet,
and stop buying the product. Back in the early 90s, after three store
bought modules in a row that dealt with Bugs, my group just stopped
buying the store bought modules.
I'm sure there will always be plenty of net.books out there to fill
the gap, and if FASA makes a radical change to SR, then enough gamers'
sensibilites will be offened that you'd see even more net.book
material than before.
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--
-- Paul Gettle (pgettle@********.net)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:11455339 (RSA 1024, created 97/08/08)
625A FFF0 76DC A077 D21C 556B BB58 00AA
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 07:52:18 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Airwasp <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Mo' bettah Cyberdoodads
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 5/5/98 2:11:04 AM !!!First Boot!!!, Ereskanti@***.COM
writes:
> > DOH! I shoulda thought of that :) Ok, small pouches could be disguised
> > as scars ... not sure about the flap thing ... either be very
concealable
> > and hard to open or easily noticed and easy to open ... unless you had a
> > DNI controlled device ... actually not even that. A lever action thingy
> > go open it ... push here, panel pops open ... dunno how much to charge
> > fer it ...
> >
> Actually, what about the "Dataport" from "Alien's 4" that was
hidden
beneath
> a
> "Mole" on the Synthetic???
>
> -K
Guys, in one of the latest books (I believe in the Dragonheart Saga), one of
the deckers had a dermal patch to cover over a datajack port. Would you guys
consider this as something similar to the Protective Cover option available
for cybereyes, and the same essence cost - nothing ?
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 07:58:10 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paul Gettle <pgettle@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Cyber and Body Index (was Re: Munchkinism at it's finest)
In-Reply-To: <199805050929.LAA15977@*****.xs4all.nl>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
At 11:30 AM 5/5/98 +0100, Gurth wrote:
>Anyway we linked this to an old idea of mine to start a campaign in
2050,
>following the order FASA-published adventures came out in -- starting
with
>DNA/DOA
<Astonishment>
GASP!
<Astonishment/>
You're kidding? You're actually going to play DNA/DOA? I have a copy
of it (merely for collecting purposes) and when I read it, it barely
even seemed like Shadowrun to me. I guess there were a lot of growing
pains in the really early books, before they had a set theme laid
down.
My bigest gripe about DNA/DOA is that becase SR was so new and untried
back then, FASA had hired a big name D&D writer to write their first
module, and the whole book just reeks of D&D cloaked in SR's clothes.
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--
-- Paul Gettle (pgettle@********.net)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:11455339 (RSA 1024, created 97/08/08)
625A FFF0 76DC A077 D21C 556B BB58 00AA
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 08:00:46 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Airwasp <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Surgeons as Riggers?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 5/5/98 3:13:49 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU writes:
> This brought me back to an idea I had the other day on the bus
> on the way to work. In 205X, could some surgeons be very specialised
> forms of riggers? Given that at the moment, there is a lot of surgery
> being done with laproscopes (I had my gall bladder out by laproscope in
> '93) and the story relayed above, could a surgeon benefit from a VCR
> which is hooked to the miniature tools used in surgery?
I do not see why not ... this would add additional control to the surgeon
performing either standard surgery for wounds or cyber/bioware implantation.
Perhaps you could lower the target number for the surgery by an amount equal
to the VCR (considering the surgery something along the lines of vehicular
combat).
This same modifier, using the VCR, would also benefit the person being
performed upon in the case of implant work, as the lower target number means
potentially more success, which can lead to less essence loss.
Mike
P.S. Could you imagine an entire run by a group of riggers from two different
sides, one trying to kill the patient and the other trying to stop the other
riggers from killing the patient.
Personally, I see this as being a Winternight favorite for getting rid of some
of their enemies, wait until they need some form of surgery and then sic a
rigger on the surgical nanites and kill the patient that way.
> just another thought for a wet afternoon in Canberra
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 08:21:51 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jerry Hill <agh60070@*******.CC.UCF.EDU>
Subject: Re: What is a CF?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>> I always thought a CF was a cubic foot.
> Naw..CF stands for Cargo Factor...WHich until Rigger2 had no actual
> measurement or direct volume relationship..
Well, a cubic foot would be... about 0.027 cubic meters... with 0.125 cubic
meters to the cf, a cf is about 5 cubic feet. Bigger than I really thought
it would be.
Jerry Hill
--------------------------------------------
'Rome wasn't built in a day
but it didn't take long to go up in flames'
- Electric Hellfire Club
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 05:52:20 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Morten Ax <run_over@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Tournament GMing
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Okay, I've finally decided that I will GM Shadowrun at the San Diego
Comic
> Con. Not many of you actually care, I know.
>
> But I've never GMed at a convention or anything. I can GM
acceptably well
> (while I occassionaly forget rules here and there, my players love my
> playacting of the NPCs, especially Johnny Rotten the fixer), but
that's
> almost always been a group of friends or mostly friends.
>
> So does anyone have any advice? Any web pages that give pointers to
this
> sort of thing (like maybe GenCon's page)? Anybody actually out
there GMed
> for a tournament or convention?
>
> I imagine I probably should have enough pre-generated PCs for
everyone, in
> a mix that's appropriate. And a pile of dice. All the sourcebooks
I'll
> need. Caffiene. Several writing utensils and note paper. My GM
screen
> since I have one (I think it's actually a SR1 screen too, but I
haven't
> used it in a while; I keep forgetting it and it's not terribly
important
> anyway; I don't use much written material anyway). Can anyone think
of
> anything else?
>
First, have enough characters that are 'basic', this being, not magic
users, deckers or riggers, since people that don't regularly play
shadowrun don't know how these characters work. Is you're lucky enough
to get a few that know the system, make these people play the
'non-basic' characters, it workd best this way.
HAve a few props, little things to give to the players, not just
hand-outs, all kinds of things work great.
Know the scenario more than usual. At a Con, you can't afford to make
a mistake, most of the time, people pay to play. The experience should
be memorable.
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 09:12:20 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tournament GMing
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980504163148.30578d40@****.fbiz.com> from "Erik
Jameson" at May 4, 98 07:29:36 pm
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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<SNIP>
> So does anyone have any advice? Any web pages that give pointers to this
> sort of thing (like maybe GenCon's page)? Anybody actually out there GMed
> for a tournament or convention?
>
> I imagine I probably should have enough pre-generated PCs for everyone, in
> a mix that's appropriate. And a pile of dice. All the sourcebooks I'll
> need. Caffiene. Several writing utensils and note paper. My GM screen
> since I have one (I think it's actually a SR1 screen too, but I haven't
> used it in a while; I keep forgetting it and it's not terribly important
> anyway; I don't use much written material anyway). Can anyone think of
> anything else?
>
Good ideas all. I'd suggest if you have any house rules, or any
rule you think should be interpreted a certain way, type it up, and
give it to the players straight away. (Cuts confustion in the long run).
Hmm..don't forget the snacks as well. :)
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 09:19:27 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Surgeons as Riggers?
In-Reply-To: <01EE95C716A4D01180E50040053AD03127BF0A@*******.towersoft.com.au>
from "Geoff Skellams" at May 5, 98 01:10:12 pm
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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>
> I just heard a report on the radio that in an Australian first, a
> surgeon has used a robot to perform surgery by remote control. I didn't
> catch the whole story, but I think the main surgeon was at a remote site
> and there was a human surgeon in the operating theatre in case there was
> a problem with the robots.
> This brought me back to an idea I had the other day on the bus
> on the way to work. In 205X, could some surgeons be very specialised
> forms of riggers? Given that at the moment, there is a lot of surgery
> being done with laproscopes (I had my gall bladder out by laproscope in
> '93) and the story relayed above, could a surgeon benefit from a VCR
> which is hooked to the miniature tools used in surgery?
>
I don't see why not. VCR-1 and a high biotech skill?
Makes sense to me. I don't see them needing a higher VCR, hmm...
unless your role play them fighting the body. (Anybody seen
Inner Space :)).
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 07:20:58 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
In-Reply-To: <199805050223.UAA25362@******.carl.org> from "Ereskanti" at
May
4, 98 10:22:00 pm
Content-Type: text
Ereskanti wrote:
/
/ In a message dated 5/4/98 3:29:47 AM US Eastern Standard Time, gurth@******.NL
/ writes:
/
/ > > (who remembers the beginning of the *first* Gulf War, long before CNN was
/ > > a glimmer in Ted Turner's mind.)
/ >
/ > I wasn't paying too much attention to the news when that one started...
/ > (For the record, I was about 6.)
/ >
/ (strange noise of milk spewing...)
/
/ Okay, that did it...I'm in the Shadow of 30....how old is anyone else??? I
/ know I -CAN'T- be the oldest one on the list...
In addition to the others who have fessed up, I'm 32. So you're not
the oldest. :)
-David
--
"That which we do not know supports that which we know."
- Joseph Campbell
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 09:28:22 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jacob Engstrom <sabredanz@****.COM>
Subject: Re: (Semi-OT) Harleys and Pumpguns
On Mon, 4 May 1998 22:41:35 EDT Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM> writes:
>In a message dated 5/4/98 4:42:25 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>dhinkley@***.ORG writes:
>
>> There is another way. Chrome the shotgun and then mount it to a
>> chomed part of the frame by the seat. Believe it or not it just
>> "disappears". I lived in a town that did this to the shotguns the
>> Motorcycle units carried. I do not want to think of how many times
>I
>> saw one of those bikes before I noticed the shotgun nor how many
>> times it took to confirm that what I thought I saw was what I saw.
>>
>This still reminds me of that guy I saw on the motorcycle going from
>Phoenix,
>through Tempe, on his way into the mountains...enough weapons for two
big fights...
Sure he wasn't on his way to The Pensic War?
Sabredanz
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 09:56:00 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 5/5/98 4:38:51 AM US Eastern Standard Time, gurth@******.NL
writes:
> I haven't enjoyed the storylines in recent years very much, to be honest.
> I liked Bug City and most of the stuff before that, but what came after
> was a bit so-so for my taste. (Note that I'm talking about source material
> which advances the "universe storyline" here, not rulebooks.) Mike
> Mulvihill seems to have definite ideas where things should go, but from
> what I've seen of them they're not really going where I'd like them to.
Wow, when I think about it, the storyline in general, I guess I would almost
have to agree with you. You can almost feel when Mr. Mulhillvil IMO took
control, as that was when the (the FASA Universe) started to "clean up" the
mess(es) left from the previous conTROLLers ( :P). I personally think I
would have been just fine with "Bug City" remaining for many years instead of
just a few.
> For one thing I don't like the annual storylines, where we have "the year
> of crime," "the year of the corps," and so on. Neither do I like the
idea
> of having everything stepped up a notch to some kind of higher stakes
> game, like it was supposed to after Dunkelzahn died.
The "Year of ..." stuff doesn't bother me overall, just the degree of massive
change. We were taught (is 'Taught a good word for this?) that if a Megacorp
should change, then it would have many visible, viable shakings of the World
Economic Tree. That didn't happen readily in the case of Fuchi/Novatech. In
fact, the BitB book does make things happen over a 2 year period for that,
BUT, we as the players have been given no interaction with it or comprehension
of it until that book came out, which ends up with the "current timeline" in
the FASA story suite.
> Not that I know where it all should go instead... :)
I think FASA is like most of the world...they don't -know- where they are
really going yet.
> I guess that counts as an "off course" vote...
One OFF
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 09:58:24 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Brian Moore <mooreb@****.FAC.COM>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
In-Reply-To: <Pine.WNT.3.96.980504184026.-239527A-100000@*******> from "Roger
J. An" at May 4, 98 06:43:12 pm
Content-Type: text
"Roger J. An" <rogan@******.ORG> said:
>
> Does anyone use the Enchanting skill and talismonger things on a regular
> basis for their characters? Was just wondering how many people use it. A
> PC in my campaign just got an enchanting at 6 and I've been having to
> refamiliarize myself with the rules.
Yep, my mage also has an Enchanting of 6. He is the enchanter in his
initiatory group, and has made a fair number of foci for everyone.
He also uses enchanting to make fetishes for his spells, many of which
require expendable fetishes.
> One thing did come up however. Where in the Grimoire does it say how many
> units of material you need to make any of the focuses (power,spell,etc.)?
The only requirement is that Orichalcum is needed for weapon foci. It
never states exactly how much Orichalcum is required, so our group
settled on (reach)+1. This closely mirrors the price and the little
note on anchoring damaging manipulation spells to weapon foci (you can
anchor a higher damage level damaging manipulation spell to a weapon
focus if it has reach+1 units of Orichalcum). We also decided that
this Orichalcum doesn't count towards reducing the enchanting roll or
First Bonding karma cost. YMMV.
There is another optional rule about "special bits" needed for higher
force foci (if d6 <= focus rating). Otherwise, radicals just make the
enchanting easier (faster) and reduce the First Bonding karma cost.
They are not required, but they are highly recommended.
BTW, I recommend changing the price on radicals. Any talismonger with
an enchanting kit can gather raw materials and convert them to refined
materials. But it takes someone who is magically active (I think) with
an enchanting shop 28 days to make a handful of radicals from refined
materials. A good & lucky enchanter can make around 15 radical units
in a month. If he was making radical lead, that would be 900 nY profit
with the prices in the Grimoire.
I'd recommend a price of (refined)+2000nY or so. That's enough for
a good enchanter to live the high life, spending 1 month out of 3
enchanting. And it means your PC Mage will actually be spending money
on something other than lifestyle.
--
Brian Moore, mooreb@***.com | I wrote up a nice script to truncate all News&
First Albany Corp. Sysadmin | Mail sigs that are greater than 4 lines long.
standard disclaimers apply | It is still in beta testing due to an off-by-
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 09:59:44 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Surgeons as Riggers?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 5/5/98 4:41:37 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
nomad74@*******.COM writes:
> I could maybe see a very famous, specialized surgeon having his own
> Rigger to set that kind of thing up. I wouldn't think it would be
> standard operating procedure, however. I can't see many patients eager
> to have their doc do the operation from halfway across the world.
> However, a specialized surgeon high in demand, may have to be in two
> places(quite literally) at the same time.
The more I think about this, and the more I consider FASA's current universe,
I would think it would be acceptable on a big level within the corporations.
The Corpers and their flock would get rather used to stuff like this. They
"understand" the necessity of things and the needs of so many people that need
to be met. Also, person-to-person interaction in the world of SR is way
different than we have it here now currently.
> Needless to say, I'm sure it wouldn't be cheap, either.
> PS- I could be convinced that this would be a popular method of
> street docs who 'specialize' in cortex bombs(for obvious reasons).
> >:)
Actually, considering that the cost for standard cyberware is now about "half"
of it's original cost. Robotic equivalents run half that cost (as per R2 and
Cybertechnology indications). The equipment is suddenly not any more
expensive than a current surgical room. And hell, the "cyberhands" part of
the arms could have a LOT of the tools built right in.
Yep, I can see this readily in all honesty...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 08:04:38 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: [GridSec] Running to GridSec
In-Reply-To: <199805012117.PAA14535@******.carl.org> from "Erik Jameson"
at
May 1, 98 05:11:09 pm
Content-Type: text
Erik Jameson wrote:
/
/ At 04:05 PM 5/1/98 EDT, you wrote:
/
/ >Get used to it. It was a similar frustration that led to my post using
/ >the word "Gestapo". The only thing I can think that could help is that
/ >every time you see a post you don't like is report it to GridSec. Perhaps
/ >things would be a little more even handed.
/
/ I don't want to do that and I doubt GridSec would appreciate it either.
Here I go again :)
<GridSec>
Our responsibilities extend towards helping the Admin monitor the
list, and point out when a policy is being violated and how to post
correctly per the FAQ, and to help list members (new and experienced)
who are having list related problems.
Keep in mind that if we notify you of a FAQ violation we aren't out
to get you. We are merely informing you of the policies as outlined
in the FAQ. If you don't like the FAQ's policies please feel free to
take up your issue with the List Admin.
If you have a list problem (can't unsubscribe, can't set NOMAIL, etc)
please feel free to ask us for help.
As for policing the list members: We are not babysitters, we aren't
your mommy, we are not responsible for supervising the members of the
list. The content of posts to the list need only follow four simple
rules: 1 Relate to Shadowrun. 2 If an off-topic thread starts it
should expire after 24 hours. 3 No flames. 4 No posts on the
forbidden subjects.
If an off-topic thread is still going after 24 hours we have the
*option* of killing the thread. While the FAQ states that off-topic
threads are to last no more than 24 hours, actual Admin policy has
been to let fun/interesting threads linger depending on the thread.
This has been the case throughout my three year tenure on the list.
If you want this policy to be followed rigorously let us know. I for
one would prefer a list that has some leeway when it comes to fun
and/or interesting OT posts/threads. But I will bow down to the
preferences of the list majority.
If you flame a list member, or the list, odds are that you will be
unsubscribed in short order by the List Admin or the List Owner.
If you post concerning one of the forbidden subjects you will be
warned. If you continue to post on a forbidden subject after being
warned, odds are that you will be unsubscribed.
If you feel that we are not doing our job let us know. I would
personally prefer that you let us know privately, instead of
addressing the issue on the list. This gives everyone involved room
to manuever. And please keep in mind the we are in different time
zones, have work to do, have private lives, and are only human. We
will miss policy violations. We will make errors.
Finally, we are *not* responsible for mediating personal issues
between list members. If you have an issue with another list member
you are responsible for contacting them privately and bringing it to
their attention. If they respond positively, all is well and good. If
they respond negatively than that's their problem. Add them to your
killfile and get on with your life.
</GridSec>
-David
--
"That which we do not know supports that which we know."
- Joseph Campbell
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 08:10:03 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Running to GridSec?/Proper Subject lines
In-Reply-To: <199805012117.PAA14535@******.carl.org> from "Erik Jameson"
at
May 1, 98 05:11:09 pm
Content-Type: text
Erik Jameson wrote:
/
[snip: running to GridSec]
/
/ Not from me. I'd rather tease them with Gong Show references.
Okay, as long as I get to be Jammie Farr ;)
-David
--
"That which we do not know supports that which we know."
- Joseph Campbell
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 10:14:57 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <830325a6.354f1a71@***.com> from "Ereskanti" at May 5,
98 09:56:00 am
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<SNIP>
> Wow, when I think about it, the storyline in general, I guess I would almost
> have to agree with you. You can almost feel when Mr. Mulhillvil IMO took
> control, as that was when the (the FASA Universe) started to "clean up" the
> mess(es) left from the previous conTROLLers ( :P). I personally think I
> would have been just fine with "Bug City" remaining for many years instead
of
> just a few.
>
I'll back you up on this one. Just when I started incorporating Bug City
into Campaign plans, it was gone. I would have enjoyed it being around
for quite awhile.
<SNIP>
>
> The "Year of ..." stuff doesn't bother me overall, just the degree of
massive
> change. We were taught (is 'Taught a good word for this?) that if a Megacorp
> should change, then it would have many visible, viable shakings of the World
> Economic Tree. That didn't happen readily in the case of Fuchi/Novatech. In
> fact, the BitB book does make things happen over a 2 year period for that,
> BUT, we as the players have been given no interaction with it or comprehension
> of it until that book came out, which ends up with the "current timeline"
in
> the FASA story suite.
>
I'm not too fond of the "Year of" trend. It kinda locks you into
one type of adventure. Most of us are still playing several years behind
FASA's timeline, just so we can plan how to integrate the changes.
(At least I am).
I've thoroughly enjoyed Rigger 2, CyberPirates, and I'll probably
love Smuggeler's Haven. Overall I feel like SR has improved in
recent years, even if I don't always agree with, or know where SR is
going. As always if I disagree with FASA "cannon", I talk it over
with my players, and if we agree ignore it. (In my friends campaign,
Chicago has yet to be reclaimed, and the bugs are still a BIG issue, and
the election, Big D stuff, may or may not come to pass, he hasn't
decided yet).
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:06:49 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Brian Moore <mooreb@****.FAC.COM>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980504230840.006b2a00@***.mindspring.com> from
"Joshua Bell" at May 4, 98 11:08:40 pm
Content-Type: text
Joshua Bell <joshbell@**********.COM> said:
> >> In a message dated 5/4/98 5:51:49 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> >> rogan@******.ORG writes:
> >>
> >> Does anyone use the Enchanting skill and talismonger things on a
> >> regular basis for their characters?
>
> I use it ocasionally for my mage when he needs money:
>
> 1. Simply buy the radicals for Oriculum (sp?) and take a monh off of
> shadowrunning.
Would you post to a BBS asking for a bank that was willing to allow a
$300,000 cash withdrawl on short notice in one month?
Of course in a real SR world, you ***WOULD*** get hit the day you finish
by another runner team intent on stealing the Orichalcum. Anyone that
buys copper, silver, mercury, and gold radicals is obviously going to
make Orichalcum shortly after obtaining the materials. I'd pay a
runner team 50knY to steal 200knY worth of Orichalcum. It's just smart
business. Orichalcum is untracable, extremely valuable, and easily
resold.
I can see it now, the "Department of Magical Acquisitions of Aztechnology"
has a few enchanters making the big 4 radicals. The radicals are sold
at a discount, supposedly as "excess materials". The department
maintains a large shadow force for tracking sales and raiding enchanters
who make Orichalcum. They could also watch out for enchanters making
high force foci, to steal the designs and almost finished products, so
the company enchanters can finish them for distribution to Aztechnology
people.
My PC mage tries to keep 2 other PCs around when making Orichalcum. He
keeps a small stock of the big 4 radicals that he usually makes himself,
so he doesn't have to buy any. He makes an average of 8 units of
Orichalcum per attempt (skill 6 & Centering, TN of 2 due to high MR).
That has a retail value of around 700,000 nY. You can be sure that
the only people who know what he's doing are the PC bodyguards (who
usually expect to get foci made from the Orichalcum).
--
Brian Moore, mooreb@***.com | I wrote up a nice script to truncate all News&
First Albany Corp. Sysadmin | Mail sigs that are greater than 4 lines long.
standard disclaimers apply | It is still in beta testing due to an off-by-
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 08:08:48 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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----------
> From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
> Date: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 6:56 AM
>
> Wow, when I think about it, the storyline in general, I guess I would
almost
> have to agree with you. You can almost feel when Mr. Mulhillvil IMO
took
> control, as that was when the (the FASA Universe) started to "clean up"
the
> mess(es) left from the previous conTROLLers ( :P). I personally think I
> would have been just fine with "Bug City" remaining for many years
instead of
> just a few.
>
*spit take!*
Bug City is over? You mean Chicago is no longer overrun by insect spirits?
Criminy, I do feel out of the loop now... Was this in a novel, or was
there an adventure where the runners help clean up the community?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:24:17 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <830325a6.354f1a71@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> I haven't enjoyed the storylines in recent years very much, to be honest.
>> I liked Bug City and most of the stuff before that, but what came after
>> was a bit so-so for my taste. (Note that I'm talking about source material
>> which advances the "universe storyline" here, not rulebooks.) Mike
>> Mulvihill seems to have definite ideas where things should go, but from
>> what I've seen of them they're not really going where I'd like them to.
>
>Wow, when I think about it, the storyline in general, I guess I would almost
>have to agree with you. You can almost feel when Mr. Mulhillvil IMO took
>control, as that was when the (the FASA Universe) started to "clean up" the
>mess(es) left from the previous conTROLLers ( :P). I personally think I
>would have been just fine with "Bug City" remaining for many years instead
of
>just a few.
I totally agree. What made SR really innovative was that magic was well
developed and managed. I tend to think that Mike doesn't like much those
magic threads and, IMO, it makes SR storyline a bit flat. If the dragon
heart trilogy was cool, it seems to be the end of the old SR line... When I
have a look at hte different storyline contributors, I see the best with
Nigel Findley. Perhaps SR has gone with his death...
>> For one thing I don't like the annual storylines, where we have "the year
>> of crime," "the year of the corps," and so on. Neither do I like
the idea
>> of having everything stepped up a notch to some kind of higher stakes
>> game, like it was supposed to after Dunkelzahn died.
>
>The "Year of ..." stuff doesn't bother me overall, just the degree of
massive
>change. We were taught (is 'Taught a good word for this?) that if a Megacorp
>should change, then it would have many visible, viable shakings of the World
>Economic Tree. That didn't happen readily in the case of Fuchi/Novatech. In
>fact, the BitB book does make things happen over a 2 year period for that,
>BUT, we as the players have been given no interaction with it or
comprehension
>of it until that book came out, which ends up with the "current timeline" in
>the FASA story suite.
I can see 2 kinds of "year of..." threads. The first doesn't have too much
implications. I think about carribean or underworld here. The other ones,
those which change drastically the world, are a bit too much IMO. The worst
of all is this corp war thread. I didn't read the novel but that seems a
bit stupid to me. In SR, megacorps aren't as powerful as in Cyberpunk. What
benefits could they gain from such a war... And when I hear about an
arcology shutdown, that makes me wonder a lot. What is it ? To me, it seems
more an **&* dungeon than anything else... :(
>> I guess that counts as an "off course" vote...
>
>One OFF
Two with mine.
- Cobra.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:19:59 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <199805051512.IAA00047@*********.cobaltgroup.com> from "Jeremy
\"Bolthy\" Zimmerman" at May 5, 98 08:08:48 am
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>
> *spit take!*
>
> Bug City is over? You mean Chicago is no longer overrun by insect spirits?
> Criminy, I do feel out of the loop now... Was this in a novel, or was
> there an adventure where the runners help clean up the community?
>
CHeck out the Shadowrun Sourcebook BugCity,and then Target: UCAS
was the wrapup for it. That was awhile back, since SR has been
dealing with the election, fallout, and now the corp stuff.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 08:21:11 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
> Date: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 9:19 AM
>
> >
> > *spit take!*
> >
> > Bug City is over? You mean Chicago is no longer overrun by insect
spirits?
> > Criminy, I do feel out of the loop now... Was this in a novel, or was
> > there an adventure where the runners help clean up the community?
> >
> CHeck out the Shadowrun Sourcebook BugCity,and then Target: UCAS
> was the wrapup for it. That was awhile back, since SR has been
> dealing with the election, fallout, and now the corp stuff.
>
Okay... now I feel officially stupid.
I own both of those, but hadn't really read Target: UCAS. So I didn't
know. Back under my rock I go. =)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 10:33:29 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sheldon Rose <scrose@****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Ereskanti wrote:
>
> I am asking the question of exactly what the subject says. Is FASA drifting
> on/off course in it's storyline. I am not implementing a Spoiler Warning of
> any kind, so just in case anyone may think this is a "sensitive topic", you
> have been warned. NO BOOK is sacred in this post.
Some of the folks in this area have had this type of discussion I'll
share some of what has been discussed with the list.
> There are possibilities that at least some of the IE's may be getting "removed
> the game activities".
Well it was getting so you could not swing a dead cat without hitting an
IE so this might not be a bad idea...
> The Horrors are gone (good/bad/indifferent) thanks to a Dragon's Sacrifice.
IMO the Horrors where worth keeping... It looks like they want to get
more into the tech side of things and move away from the mystical which
is not the direction I would like to see SR move into...
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 09:38:26 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <199805051416.IAA02802@******.carl.org> from "Lehlan Decker"
at
May 5, 98 10:14:57 am
Content-Type: text
Lehlan Decker wrote:
/
/ Just when I started incorporating Bug City
/ into Campaign plans, it was gone. I would have enjoyed it being around
/ for quite awhile.
I gave up trying to incorporate FASA's storyline into my world a long
time ago. For example, I moved the Chicago hive to Denver. And the
hive is going to be around for a long time, as far as I'm concerned.
My approach is to buy the sourcebooks and use what I want to use.
Sometimes I use everything from the sourcebook to the letter.
Sometimes I don't use a thing.
For example, I've set a plot in motion that would be destroyed if I
kept to the storyline from Jak's books. So I won't follow that
storyline to the letter.
On the other hand other sourcebooks are awesome and don't interfere
with my campaign plans at all, so I can easily incorporate them.
And then there are times when the basic material is great, but I
don't like the story, so I change the story. <shrug>
Make of it what you will, is my philosophy.
-David
--
"That which we do not know supports that which we know."
- Joseph Campbell
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 08:36:20 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Non-running sources of income (was Re: Talismongering)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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----------
> From: Brian Moore <mooreb@****.FAC.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Talismongering
> Date: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 8:06 AM
>
<snip>
> Of course in a real SR world, you ***WOULD*** get hit the day you finish
> by another runner team intent on stealing the Orichalcum. Anyone that
> buys copper, silver, mercury, and gold radicals is obviously going to
> make Orichalcum shortly after obtaining the materials. I'd pay a
> runner team 50knY to steal 200knY worth of Orichalcum. It's just smart
> business. Orichalcum is untracable, extremely valuable, and easily
> resold.
>
<snip>
This reminds me of something I was wondering.
How many people have their characters do work on the side? For a campaign
I'm going to be playing in pretty soon, I've been working on a
rigger/decker type o' guy, and I was thinking about long term possibilities
for him. The thought of getting a microtronics facility and/or a ground
vehicles b/r facility came to mind. And then I realized that in any
realistic campaign, a place like that stands a good chance of getting
robbed. Which means security of some sort. Which means the cost of upkeep
goes up.
So I thought of maybe actually making a business out of this. But the time
involved on some of the tasks is sometimes huge, which would interfer with
my character's career as a shadowrunner. The possibility of staffing the
place comes to mind, but that in itself has its own headaches.
I'd had similar thoughts regarding programming, particularly when I upgrade
my characters MPCP software or something. A rating 10 mpcp sourcecode with
sculpted iconography if worth well over a million nuyen, IIRC. Selling
this through the shadow market would be a good half a mill. But then comes
the possibility of other runners coming after my hide.
Has anyone else tried to market their skills in non-shadowrunning efforts
for a few extra nuyen?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:00:06 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sheldon Rose <scrose@****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Re: Vampires ( & Mages ) & Werewolves ?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Cobra wrote:
>
> >Okay, I don't know much about White Wolf's games and truthfully, don't
> >really care.
>
> I'm only a player so I don't have read any vampire book. My opinion will
> lack some real insight but I think I've enough played to make it valuable...
>
> >BUT it was mentioned by Robert Nessius earlier that he used several items
> >from that gaming series to provide culture references for Shadowrun,
> >specifically mentioning Vampire and Mage.
> >
> >I'm somewhat curious to tell the truth now. If I were only to purchase one
> >book for Vampire info and one book for Mage info, what should I buy?
> >Especially if I didn't want to deal with a lot of game mechanics nonsense,
> >just background materials that could be mined for Shadowrun purposes.
>
> * For Vampire, I don't think there's something really useful. It's a very
> specific atmosphere.
> For data on the different clan, I don't think any of the books describes
> all the clans. There is either Camarilla's or Sabbat's or the others...
the players guild will give you the everything execept the Sabbat stuff.
The "Clan books" are expensive for what you get even when you actually
play the game.
The basic rule books give you a great deal of material including the
materical they used to create the clans.
Watch Dracular (This will give you some nice Sabbat material.
Lost Boys is the definitive Bruhaj movie IMO.
Interview with a Vampire for the Toreador
etc etc etc.
White Wolf wants to sell books just like any other publisher but if you
are not going to play the game the books are not all that useful IMO...
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 11:08:53 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Mo' bettah Cyberdoodads
On Tue, 5 May 1998 07:52:18 EDT Airwasp <Airwasp@***.COM> writes:
>In a message dated 5/5/98 2:11:04 AM !!!First Boot!!!, Ereskanti@***.COM
>writes:
>> > DOH! I shoulda thought of that :) Ok, small pouches could be
disguised
>> > as scars ... not sure about the flap thing ... either be very
concealable
>> > and hard to open or easily noticed and easy to open ... unless you
had a
>> > DNI controlled device ... actually not even that. A lever action
thingy
>> > go open it ... push here, panel pops open ... dunno how much to
charge
>> > fer it ...
>> Actually, what about the "Dataport" from "Alien's 4" that
was hidden
>beneath a "Mole" on the Synthetic???
>>
>> -K
hmmmm....IIRC, the dataport didn't really gel with the SR concept of a
datajack... The synthetic's dataport was floating under her skin and the
opening was much smaller than my concept of a datajack. (look at the
piccs in VR 2.0 [for a specific page ref, try page 48, but there are
others]) This, doesn't mean it's not possible, just that it's not as
easy...I'd say it'd be easiest in a cyberlimb covered with synthetic
skin.
>Guys, in one of the latest books (I believe in the Dragonheart Saga),
one of
>the deckers had a dermal patch to cover over a datajack port. Would you
guys
>consider this as something similar to the Protective Cover option
available
>for cybereyes, and the same essence cost - nothing ?
>
>Mike
<*WARNING*>
This post involves the discussion of one of the characters in the
Dragonheart Trilogy. No story is revealed/discussed but if you would
like to avoid hearing anything about the character, please move on/delete
this message now.
</*WARNING*>
Yup, Jane-in-a-box had a clear plastic panel covering her datajacks and
softlink. Hmmmm... I would say a datajack guard would be simple to
create. Since they don't have to be as thin (althogh thin would be nice
:), and they don't have to be transparent, datajack guards would be
cheaper than protective covers for cybereyes.
so now for the stats,
Item Impact Price Availability Street Index
Datajack Guard 0 50 3/36 hrs 1
1 200 4/48 hrs 1.5
2 600 5/3 days 1.5
Protective Panel 0 30*n 3/24 hrs 1
1 150*n 4/36 hrs 1.5
2 400*n 5/48 hrs 1.5
n is the number of datajacks / softlinks to be protected. All such
softlinks / datajacks must be mounted close to each other. If there is
room (GM discretion) to mount one or more datajacks / softlinks in the
space between the datakacks / softlinks, the panel must be purchased as
if they were present.
Datajack Guard is a small plug inserted into the datajack / softlink.
The portion remaining external extends over and past the rim of the
datajack / softlink. In order to use a datajack guard with 2 points of
impact armor, the datajack / softlink must be mounted on something
rigid like a cyberlimb or a mass of bone. The 0 impact guard basically
just protects the datajack from dust and stray particles. The guard is
available in an assortment of colors including, but not limited to,
clear, flesh tone, and chrome.
Datajack Panel is a plastic panel covering and protecting multiple
datajacks / softlinks. The panel has adhesive material along the rims
that keep it in place. Otherwise, the same rules apply as for the
datajack guard.
Well, whadya think?
D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
_____________________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 09:14:21 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Mo' bettah Cyberdoodads
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Mo' bettah Cyberdoodads
> Date: Monday, May 04, 1998 9:08 AM
>
>
<snip>
> Yup, Jane-in-a-box had a clear plastic panel covering her datajacks and
> softlink. Hmmmm... I would say a datajack guard would be simple to
> create. Since they don't have to be as thin (althogh thin would be nice
> :), and they don't have to be transparent, datajack guards would be
> cheaper than protective covers for cybereyes.
>
<more snip>
If you're into non-SR references, this reminds me that Turner, in Gibson's
"Count Zero" had "dust covers" for his datajacks, IIRC. Nothing fancy
or
sophisticated, just a little plug that he put into his jack when he wasn't
using it to keep ickies from getting in. =)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 12:18:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alex van der Kleut <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <354F3149.BF16E40@****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:33 AM 5/5/98 -0500, Sheldon Rose wrote:
>> I am asking the question of exactly what the subject says. Is FASA
drifting
>> on/off course in it's storyline. I am not implementing a Spoiler
Warning of
>> any kind, so just in case anyone may think this is a "sensitive topic",
you
>> have been warned. NO BOOK is sacred in this post.
>> There are possibilities that at least some of the IE's may be getting
"removed
>> the game activities".
Some of them have been. At the end of Technobable the Leonardo elf gets
neutralized by Lowfyr. He was trying to build his own little caer down in
Africa and had it stomped upon. He also had his magic cut off, although I
don't remember if that was permament or if he was killed also.
>> The Horrors are gone (good/bad/indifferent) thanks to a Dragon's Sacrifice.
Not all of them are gone. First, Harly says at the end that some of them
DID get through when the bridge was completed for a little while. Maybe not
the most powerful, but at the very least some of the real go-getters:)
Also, at the end of the last Dragonheart book, Dunkelzahn is going and
evening out the divide. That implies that there are more to even out. Off
of the top of my head I can remember the one in Hawaii, mentioned in the
Nigel Findley Hawaii book. IIRC Harelquin and Dirk Pitt stopped them, but
the "mana spike" would have still been there. Also in Worlds without End
Aina caused one near Crater Lake that allowed others through. And I'm sure
that there are more, smaller ones that were created by mana spikes.
>IMO the Horrors where worth keeping... It looks like they want to get
>more into the tech side of things and move away from the mystical which
>is not the direction I would like to see SR move into...
I think that they're worth keeping too, but they were coming too fast. Even
the best runner characters, initiated out to 6-7 level (181 karma without
ordeals or groups!), they don't seem very powerful comapred to a good
Earthdawn horror. They've made allowances to have smaller (and possibly
bigger) Horrors around without worrying about a full scale invasion.
As for the direction in general, I like the way that a lot of these
seemingly different events come together from different writers. Everything
in BitB boils down to two events: Big D's will and Leonardo from Black
Madonna. The will is obvious, with Fuchi screwing around. But that little
bit at the end of BM set up the whole Renraku getting really big without me
really marking it. And it happend, what 2-3 years ago real time? There
might have been a fight because of Lanier going over to R from F, but
Leonardo giving R all that tech and getting them market share was the
catalyst.
I've like the background world since the beginning because it was so
unique. But one of the things that they missed out, I thought, was a
continuously changing world. Thin khow much our world has changed in the
past 5-10 years. Quite a lot, and it seems to go faster and faster. Then
ask yourself how much SR changed between 2050 and 2055. Not an awful lot,
besides some extra toys. More detail came out (FoF, Lone Star, Tirs), but
the status quo stayed even.
Then Bug City came out, and things started changing. After that, I think
the world had become more dynamic, the way the world is. I thought that the
2057 election was good, because it was a fundamantal shift. And I really
like the Target: concept, because it looks like it'll come out as a kind of
snapshot of the worls and where its going.
Sommers
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:19:30 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paolo Marcucci <paolo@*********.IT>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <199805051517.RAA05470@****.mhnet.fr>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
If anyone read Technobabel, you'll see the return of an old group of people
:) being the cause (lateral, ok) of the impending corp war.
Seems like dead cats cannot be swinged safely these days :)
But overall I'm pretty satisfied by FASA course. As a GM, I have the last
word on what fits or not in MY game world, and this helps a lot. The magic
angle is still pretty important (Cyberpirates) but it's not the one and
only power in the SR world. Thanks Mike for that, I was tired of grounding
fireballs on clueless runners...
The Horrors thread has been downsized (thanks to the countless Harlequin's
Back modules ran all around the world) but not cleared. And the focus of
the SR world is now balanced between tech and magic.
And...
can someone tell me why I wrote this post? :)
____________________________________________________________
Paolo Marcucci paolo@*********.it
InterWare Service Provider Trieste, Italy
http://www.interware.it/ Tel. +39-40-360630
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 09:15:59 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alexia Silverstein <alexia_silverstein@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET> wrote:
><snip>
> Why does it generally seem only FEMALE pc's are "useful" in
this
> manner, despite (rare) male PC's identical stats and skills? Isn't
> sexism suposed to be a dead issue in SR?
<snip>
> -Mongoose
Well, I mean guys are just more reserved in their sexuality in front
of other guys, therefore even if the opportunity arose for a pc to
interact hetero or homo sexualy with a gm character, they'd be too
intimidated by the fact that they may do something and fail miserably
in front of all thier buddies. (at least this is what I've found)
Maybe I hang out with a wird bunch but all the girls I know are very
secure in thier sexuality and say things like "you think this 'll get
the guy's attention?" (referring to a low cut blouse or slit in the
skirt) Where as guys I know try to avoid anything like that.
So...even if sexism is dead in SR, there are still psychological
issues in the actual players themselves that make women more suited to
play these parts.
http://www.sova.net/trish/shadowrun
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 12:24:41 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alex van der Kleut <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Non-running sources of income (was Re: Talismongering)
In-Reply-To: <199805051540.IAA05039@*********.cobaltgroup.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:36 AM 5/5/98 -0700, Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman wrote:
>This reminds me of something I was wondering.
<snip>
>Has anyone else tried to market their skills in non-shadowrunning efforts
>for a few extra nuyen?
>
Been there, run that. I was partners with another character" he was the
rigger, I was the gun runner. We got together and bought a garbage
corporation as a front. IIRC, we broke about even, but it was mostly a
front to launder the money from the gunrunning. But we also a great reason
to have a vehicle shop, which we also used for other characters, and a way
to get around the city unseen.
But we had the whole thing legitimately set up, employees (who didn't know
about our other activities), a logo on the trucks and everything. Of
course, we didn't let them use the truck with the "special" mods.
Sommers
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 12:25:38 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Non-running sources of income (was Re: Talismongering)
In-Reply-To: <199805051540.IAA05039@*********.cobaltgroup.com> from "Jeremy
\"Bolthy\" Zimmerman" at May 5, 98 08:36:20 am
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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<SNIP>
> This reminds me of something I was wondering.
>
> How many people have their characters do work on the side? For a campaign
> I'm going to be playing in pretty soon, I've been working on a
> rigger/decker type o' guy, and I was thinking about long term possibilities
> for him. The thought of getting a microtronics facility and/or a ground
> vehicles b/r facility came to mind. And then I realized that in any
> realistic campaign, a place like that stands a good chance of getting
> robbed. Which means security of some sort. Which means the cost of upkeep
> goes up.
>
> So I thought of maybe actually making a business out of this. But the time
> involved on some of the tasks is sometimes huge, which would interfer with
> my character's career as a shadowrunner. The possibility of staffing the
> place comes to mind, but that in itself has its own headaches.
>
> I'd had similar thoughts regarding programming, particularly when I upgrade
> my characters MPCP software or something. A rating 10 mpcp sourcecode with
> sculpted iconography if worth well over a million nuyen, IIRC. Selling
> this through the shadow market would be a good half a mill. But then comes
> the possibility of other runners coming after my hide.
>
> Has anyone else tried to market their skills in non-shadowrunning efforts
> for a few extra nuyen?
>
Several PC's I have run, and ones in my campaign, have day jobs for
lack of a better term. One if a drummer in a local band, another
owns part of a bar, another teachers at a martial arts school.
This helps account for some of the downtime between runs. (I usually roll
a D6 and let that be the number of weeks since the last "big" run).
This adds alot of roleplaying potential, and gives them somewhere
to develop their skills, invest (and lose) nuyen, etc.
I usually encourage it. I usually get with the player, figure how
the amount of money they must spend, get paid, etc.
I've also used this as a reason to bring other runners into a group.
(Fred can't make it tonight, his band is touring in CalFree, so George
will stand in for him).
Think of it this way. I work 9-5, and occasionally (usually once or
twice a month), do freelance consulting (usually at night). The freelance
pays better then the day job. Freelance = Shadowrun.
(Some people may have runs occur more often, but I usually find some
down time lets PC's flesh out their characters, recover from wounds, etc)
If PC's elect to not take the downtime, I don't roll the dice and
let them roleplaying looking for the next run. :)
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 12:29:05 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <jeanpell@****.ivic.qc.ca>
From: Frank Pelletier <jeanpell@****.IVIC.QC.CA>
Subject: Damn books (was Re:Mo' bettah Cyberdoodads)
Airwasp <Airwasp@***.COM> once wrote,
> Guys, in one of the latest books (I believe in the Dragonheart Saga), one of
> the deckers had a dermal patch to cover over a datajack port. Would you guys
> consider this as something similar to the Protective Cover option available
> for cybereyes, and the same essence cost - nothing ?
>
> Mike
>
Sure... that's one piece of cyberware from the books I'd consider putting
in my games.
Then again, there's.... there's... 6-port multi-datajacks? Munchie.
Extendable finger digits? Munchie. Retractable back-mounted minigun?
Munchie. Third cyberarm implanted in the chest? Mun...nah..that one's
just lame.
:) SR Books have let me down more than once. Some interresting pieces
might filter through, but the DragonHeart saga was such a munchie fest and
(all respect due to Jak Koke) the last book was..to say the least..
well..you know...
SR Books always seem to have the need to push the rules of the damn game
they're supposed to represent (And I won't even touch anything written by
Carl Sargent). Why? Dunno.
You can have a pretty damn good book without those GIJoe squared-jaw
supermodel-shadowrunners-of-death-and-destruction (i.e. Neuromancer,
Count Zero). Please, SR writters, if you give a damn... can't you write
something that remotly ressembles the game we play? Last time I checked,
I couldn't play a drake... I haven't found a drake in the paranormal
books, or Awakenings, or the Grimmy, or... ya get it.
Trinity
------------------------------------------------------
Frank Pelletier
Trinity@********.com, jeanpell@****.qc.ca
This message was brought to you by Gangstarr - "Moment of Truth"
"life is a blur"
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:28:34 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Non-running sources of income (was Re: Talismongering)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> <SNIP>
> > This reminds me of something I was wondering.
> >
> > How many people have their characters do work on the side?
I had one character who ran a "free" clinic. While his income from
running paid his bills, people in the neighborhood would sometimes give
him stuff for his magical and mundane healing methods. Little bits of
info, small gifts of cash, or even homemade brownies (which, incidentally,
the rest of the runner team looked at me like I was insane for bringing to
the planning meet.. they still ate them, though <g>). It had the added
benefit of, in addition to a wee bit of spare money, a great set of
alibi's... if everyone agrees that I couldn't have done that job because I
was taking care of Timmy while he goblinized (Timmy now being about 9 feet
tall and playing with a Buick like a Matchbox, all while grinning at the
cop), well, it seems I've got a rock-solid alibi. The Naked Dwarf was a
great character to play... too bad he had to go and get himself eaten by a
dragon.
***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
"Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn lasts
forever"
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
"Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo the
better part of humor."
aka Ellegon, Working at making Cannon canon
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are crunchy
and good with ketchup."
--------[Geek Code Block]-----------
GED/GSS d- s++:+ a-- C++ W w+ PS+.5 PE- Y+ t+
5+ X+ R*+.5 !tv+ b+.5 DI+ D- G e h !r-- !y+
-------[End Geek Code Block]-------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:13:51 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I'll be the first to admit that Shadowrun isn't my main game. Too
difficult to find a group, and not very good at GMing, I just rarely get a
chance to play. However, I think the line is really suffering from the
death of the magic-based plots. Hell, almost all I play are magic-users
of one sort or another. Does anyone remember the little slogan you see
about Shadowrun in the game shop posters? "Where man meets machine in an
age of magic". The way things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if
Haley's Comet takes all of the magic with it when it leaves.
In the games I've played, most have been magic-related. If nothing else,
having a mage along has helped us get out of scrapes we couldn't have
pulled off without a huge outlay of firepower and more bodies than we
really wanted to contemplate A de-emphasization turns this into another
Rifts, where we buy more books just to see what new toys we've been
provided with, rather than what it was intended to be: a point where both
magic and technology, two otherwise irreconcilable forces, were both
necessary to get shit done.
> >One OFF
>
> Two with mine.
Three..
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 12:46:12 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <jeanpell@****.ivic.qc.ca>
From: Frank Pelletier <jeanpell@****.IVIC.QC.CA>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM> once wrote,
> I am asking the question of exactly what the subject says. Is FASA drifting
> on/off course in it's storyline. I am not implementing a Spoiler Warning of
> any kind, so just in case anyone may think this is a "sensitive topic", you
> have been warned. NO BOOK is sacred in this post.
>
> In your own opinions of course :)
>
> My Opinion?
>
> I think they are hitting a snag that I've suddenly started putting together.
> I have noticed some things, between the more recent "editor guided novels"
and
> the sourcebooks that are either recently released or out now.
Read my previous post on that (Damn Books)... I think all SR novels
basically suck, compared to the fine game they're supposed to represent.
> Lofwyr mentions being in control of the IE's in Technobabel.
>
> There are possibilities that at least some of the IE's may be getting "removed
> the game activities".
And a good thing too. IEs were the scapegoat/plausible explanation for
anything from fovae to human achievements to jiffy-pop popcorn. Damn!
Madagascar seems fucked up! IEs... Tir Na Nog is a land full of mystery.
IEs... Humanity grew from nothing to develop a superb cultural
background, thanks in part to the works of geniuses like Leonardo
DaVinci...IE...
Get rid of them, keep them, I don't care... Just don't put them as the
central figures behind everything.
> The Horrors are gone (good/bad/indifferent) thanks to a Dragon's Sacrifice.
I'm ambivalent on the subject. On one hand, I think a few horrors
filtering through would had that "horror" feeling in some games, dark,
damp corridors, no sounds, only the ragged breathing of something in the
darkness... ya know, "Alien"-like runs.
But, if you use horrors in the same fashion as you use IEs...then get rid
of them... Leonardo was an IE... Hitler was an horror... whoopie...
> Magic is being "reversed" in some aspects, better defined maybe, yes, that
> much I give and accept. But the development of Magic within the game
> mechanics of SR as a whole are taking a definite new tangent.
We have to wait for SR3 and the new Big Book O' Magic for that. I guess
since the mana curve is supposed to go up, we're going to see bigger and
better uses for magic. If the changes are for the better (Magic is more
focused, less chaotic, less "I got 20 focus hidden in a metaplane")
> If I didn't know any better, I would say that certain people now in command of
> this "RPG Ship" are definitely changing the course of it. I know two, no
make
> it three, people who have had conversations in attempts/negotiations to get
> material published/accepted to FASA that have given me a similar story. They
> were met with the response of "you have no idea what direction SR is going, go
> away". At least in one of those individual's cases, the conversation was more
> "graphically descriptive".
We all know IEs and horrors and that crossover thing were Dowd's
brainchild. Mr. Mulvihil seems to me more corporate/punkish/street
level-inclined. And I say amen to that!
> What is -SR- then? (snipped)
Nobody truly knows where SR is headed, except the DLOH. And that's good.
Imagine is everyone threw in their ideas at FASA, begging them to accept
THEIR views of SR...
I know for a fact that I personally hate too much magic...I'm more of a
cyber/matrix/punk type of player... I like it dark and gritty. I also
know for a fact that someone like Vagabond lamented the departure of the
"ED-crossover" idea from current SR products.
But still, we play the same game... That's the beauty of SR, or any other
RPG... Play like you damn want shall be the whole of the law, or
something :)
But we shouldn't rush and pressure FASA into putting out products that
satisfy a small niche of players, not all the SR players. The Net is
there for that. If you're looking for something specific, a trip at the
Archive (www.interware.it/shadowrun) could solve your problems... or fine
publications like the TSS (www.interware.it/users/adamj) fill in that gap
quite nicely.
> Ideas, Guesses, Flames, Retorts, Commentary, Peanuts, Popcorn???
>
> -K
2 hotdogs with the works, and a Michelob...thanks.
Trinity
------------------------------------------------------
Frank Pelletier
Trinity@********.com, jeanpell@****.qc.ca
This message was brought to you by Gangstarr - "Moment of Truth"
"life is blur"
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:02:15 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
In-Reply-To: <199805051625.KAA05881@******.carl.org> from "Alexia
Silverstein"
at May 5, 98 09:15:59 am
Content-Type: text
Alexia Silverstein wrote:
/
/ ---Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET> wrote:
/ ><snip>
/ > Why does it generally seem only FEMALE pc's are "useful" in
/ this
/ > manner, despite (rare) male PC's identical stats and skills? Isn't
/ > sexism suposed to be a dead issue in SR?
/ <snip>
/ > -Mongoose
/
/ Well, I mean guys are just more reserved in their sexuality in front
/ of other guys, therefore even if the opportunity arose for a pc to
/ interact hetero or homo sexualy with a gm character, they'd be too
/ intimidated by the fact that they may do something and fail miserably
/ in front of all thier buddies. (at least this is what I've found)
/ Maybe I hang out with a wird bunch but all the girls I know are very
/ secure in thier sexuality and say things like "you think this 'll get
/ the guy's attention?" (referring to a low cut blouse or slit in the
/ skirt) Where as guys I know try to avoid anything like that.
/ So...even if sexism is dead in SR, there are still psychological
/ issues in the actual players themselves that make women more suited to
/ play these parts.
The sexual security of men also has to do with their age. I don't
know why, but that seems to be the case. For example, when I was
younger everything Alexia said was right on the nose. Neither I, nor
any of my friends, were secure sexually. Well, except for Bill, but
he was an exception. Nowadays my sexuality is pretty secure, as is
the sexuality of my friends. I can even point out to my friend Craig
that his tight ass probably drives women crazy.
I think it's cuz women don't have to deal with testosterone. From
the ages of 1-11 I couldn't care less about sexuality issues. Then,
Bang, I couldn't think of anything else and didn't understand it a
bit. It's like getting a craving for icecream and you're pretty sure
you know what flavor you want, but you don't have a clue as to how to
get some, let alone knowing how to eat it.
Over time most men either get used to it and learn to deal with their
sexuality, or the testosterone level drops off and they don't care.
I learned to deal with it :) Being married also adds to my level of
security <shrug>.
I don't think that sexuality should be a dead issue in Shadowrun. I
think that problems similar to today's problems should exist. Men
should still, in general, be "tight" when it comes to sexuality. I
don't know what women should be cuz I don't understand them ;) With
the advent of cybertechnology and advanced cosmetic surgery the lines
should be blurred, while being more in the fore front.
Is that a man or a woman, both, neither? What do you mean you used
to be a man? I only date women that used to be men, they know how to
make love to a man. Etc.
-David
--
"That which we do not know supports that which we know."
- Joseph Campbell
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:11:42 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Non-running sources of income (was Re: Talismongering)
In-Reply-To: <199805051541.JAA24664@******.carl.org> from "Jeremy
\"Bolthy\"
Zimmerman" at May 5, 98 08:36:20 am
Content-Type: text
Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman wrote:
/
/ How many people have their characters do work on the side? For a campaign
/ I'm going to be playing in pretty soon, I've been working on a
/ rigger/decker type o' guy, and I was thinking about long term possibilities
/ for him. The thought of getting a microtronics facility and/or a ground
/ vehicles b/r facility came to mind. And then I realized that in any
/ realistic campaign, a place like that stands a good chance of getting
/ robbed. Which means security of some sort. Which means the cost of upkeep
/ goes up.
/
/ So I thought of maybe actually making a business out of this. But the time
/ involved on some of the tasks is sometimes huge, which would interfer with
/ my character's career as a shadowrunner. The possibility of staffing the
/ place comes to mind, but that in itself has its own headaches.
/
/ I'd had similar thoughts regarding programming, particularly when I upgrade
/ my characters MPCP software or something. A rating 10 mpcp sourcecode with
/ sculpted iconography if worth well over a million nuyen, IIRC. Selling
/ this through the shadow market would be a good half a mill. But then comes
/ the possibility of other runners coming after my hide.
/
/ Has anyone else tried to market their skills in non-shadowrunning efforts
/ for a few extra nuyen?
I'd suggest doing for the roleplaying aspects. For example, lease
office space, buy the equipment, and hire a manager to manage the
business for you. Unless you know some people that you want, let the
manager hire everyone they need. Then you can just put your name on
the org chart as a special consultant for anything big that comes
up. Or set goals for the business, depending on what it does.
Then, from time to time, you can drop by to see how things are going,
if you made any money, if you're losing money. And the GM can use it
as a tool for fun, or as a starting point for an adventure.
-David
--
"That which we do not know supports that which we know."
- Joseph Campbell
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 10:08:36 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: Frank Pelletier <jeanpell@****.IVIC.QC.CA>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
> Date: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 5:46 AM
<snip>
> And a good thing too. IEs were the scapegoat/plausible explanation for
> anything from fovae to human achievements to jiffy-pop popcorn. Damn!
<snip>
The immortal elves are behind jiffy-pop? Is nothing sacred?!
<snip>
> I'm ambivalent on the subject. On one hand, I think a few horrors
> filtering through would had that "horror" feeling in some games, dark,
> damp corridors, no sounds, only the ragged breathing of something in the
> darkness... ya know, "Alien"-like runs.
>
> But, if you use horrors in the same fashion as you use IEs...then get rid
> of them... Leonardo was an IE... Hitler was an horror... whoopie...
>
<snip>
I think this is a valid point. When one aspect of the game becomes a
central, overriding feature of game universe, the whole thing becomes a
little lame. I like IEs. I don't like it when they become as ubiquitous
as the ninjas in the Tick. "Dear, I think we just ran over an immortal
elf!" "It's okay, nobody'll miss it."
Similarly, in a gaming environment, having the same theme pop up over and
over again gets lame, be it horrors, or the standard "screw-the-runner"
adventures that they perpetually publish. My group has gotten to the point
where we just cannot endure published adventures anymore. Things like that
are nice when used sparingly, but become passe' when used ad nauseum.
Unless of course you just love having bug-huntin' shadowrunners, which is
your perogative I guess.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 10:18:15 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matthew Waddilove <m_waddilove@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Hermetic vs. Shamanic mages
Content-Type: text/plain
Fade Said
>
>What if hermetic mages simply were shamans following the totem of
>science? A totem with a lot of differences from the others, but with
>*exactly* the same basics. It would explain why some hermetic mages
>become insect shamans, why they have the same spells, same abilites,
>etcetera. It also goes with the thread earlier, about science as
>religion. It's more an image, a way of interpretation, than a rule.
>
NO NO NO. Shamans are just Hermetic's with some bizarre psychosomatic
constrants, mild multiple personality disorder("My Totem talks to Me!!!"
Yeah right) and a very twisted world view ;)
But seriously good Idea but as my comment shows it's purely a matter of
perception.
-Matthew Waddilove
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 19:32:16 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Adventure dates
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
As I mentioned in another post, my group decided to start a campaign back
in 2050, and play the various FASA-published adventures in order (or as
far as they'll get before A) everyone gets killed or B) it gets dull to
have so few toys :) To that end I decided to browse through my collection
of adventures and look at the dates mentioned in them, in order to place
them in chronological order.
The table below shows the results for the adventures I own, but I'd like
to fill the gaps -- I'd appreciate it if those with adventures that aren't
on the list post the dates in a similar manner. The dates in the table
are, where possible, taken from the newspaper handouts in the back of many
adventures, and as such they would represent the date on which the
adventure is supposed to have been completed by the players. If the date
comes from another source, it's noted on the table.
Date Adventure FASA no. Notes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
??-??-2050 Silver Angel 7102 Can take place almost
any time.
12-02-2050 Mercurial 7302 Date is from player
handouts.
17-08-2050 Dreamchipper 7303
??-08-2050 Harlequin 7306 Can take place almost
any time; date is from
player handouts.
12-12-2050 DNA/DOA 7301
15-01-???? Queen Euphoria 7304 Most likely 2051.
15-01-???? Bottled Demon 7305 Most likely 2051; same
date as Queen Euphoria.
10-05-2051 Missing Blood 7205 Adventure from The
Universal Brotherhood.
08-06-2051 Ivy & Chrome 7311
08-09-2051 Dark Angel 7313 Intro says "The year
is 2054."
23-09-2051 Eye Of The Eagle 7202 Adventure from Native
American Nations
Volume Two
09-10-2051 Dragon Hunt 7307
26-10-2051 Peacekeeper 7202 Adventure from Native
American Nations
Volume One
14-11-2051 Total Eclipse 7308
20-05-2053 Elven Fire 7310
25-08-2053 One Stage Before 7312
10-06-2054 A Killing Glare 7314
??-12-2054 Paradise Lost 7317 Dates are from sourcebook
section.
??-??-2055 Harlequin's Back 7320 Can take place almost
any time.
07-08-2057 Super Tuesday! 7322 Date is from Dunkelzahn's
Secrets; can take place
almost any time in 2057.
01-01-2058 Mob War! 7326 Date is beginning of
adventure.
??-??-2059 Predator And Prey 7324 Can take place almost
any time.
One thing that appears is that the first published adventure (DNA/DOA)
isn't the first -- Dreamchipper at least plays earlier; in Mercurial the
only solid date given is in a player handout with a text written _before_
the adventure, and Silver Angel has no date on it at all, except the
standard "The year is 2050" blurb at the beginning.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 19:32:16 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: DNA/DOA (was Re: Cyber and Body Index)
In-Reply-To: <199805051157.IAA07312@*******.scescape.net>
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Paul Gettle said on 7:58/ 5 May 98...
> <Astonishment>
> GASP!
> <Astonishment/>
In HTML, you put the slash at the beginning of the tag :)
> You're kidding? You're actually going to play DNA/DOA? I have a copy
> of it (merely for collecting purposes) and when I read it, it barely
> even seemed like Shadowrun to me. I guess there were a lot of growing
> pains in the really early books, before they had a set theme laid
> down.
Same thing here, but if you're going to do this, then I think you've got
to do it right, and that means starting at the beginning. I will need to
invent something else to put in the lab, though... What's there according
to the adventure (I won't mention it for spoiler reasons) just doesn't
make a lot of sense (to put it politely :)
> My bigest gripe about DNA/DOA is that becase SR was so new and untried
> back then, FASA had hired a big name D&D writer to write their first
> module, and the whole book just reeks of D&D cloaked in SR's clothes.
Yep. Mercurial is a lot better, IMHO.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 19:32:15 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Mo' bettah Cyberdoodads
In-Reply-To: <d55065a.354efd73@***.com>
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Airwasp said on 7:52/ 5 May 98...
> Guys, in one of the latest books (I believe in the Dragonheart Saga), one of
> the deckers had a dermal patch to cover over a datajack port. Would you guys
> consider this as something similar to the Protective Cover option available
> for cybereyes, and the same essence cost - nothing ?
I'd allow it, although if you look at most drawings of datajacks, they
tend to stick out from the skull a bit so it could look like you've got a
strange lump on your head if you just put a patch over it. For a little
extra nuyen, I'd let a player take a slightly more recessed datajack that
can be easily covered over, IMHO.
If all else fails, you could always just put some bandages over it and say
you've got a head wound :)
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 13:39:17 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jeremiah Stevens <jeremiah@********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Surgeons as Riggers?
In-Reply-To: <69072c07.354eff6f@***.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
> I do not see why not ... this would add additional control to the surgeon
> performing either standard surgery for wounds or cyber/bioware implantation.
>
> Perhaps you could lower the target number for the surgery by an amount equal
> to the VCR (considering the surgery something along the lines of vehicular
> combat).
>
> This same modifier, using the VCR, would also benefit the person being
> performed upon in the case of implant work, as the lower target number means
> potentially more success, which can lead to less essence loss.
I would also allow the use of a control pool or perhaps a bonus to the
task pool (assuming of course that the surgeon has an encephalon or
cerebral booster).
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 13:35:54 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Surgeons as Riggers?
In-Reply-To: <01EE95C716A4D01180E50040053AD03127BF0A@*******.towersoft.c om.au>
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Rigged surgery makes a lot of sense for SR.
I don't know about remote surgery; that would enable too many nasty
possibilities like rival riggers "hacking" in and taking over the surgery.
But if the surgeon was physically there, rigged into a surgery drone or
something, that would likely allow cleaner and quicker surgery.
Just think; a robot doesn't have shaky hands. A robot can always cut as
straight as is commanded. And a well trained rigger-surgeon could probably
handle more than just two hands at a time; he could be controlling multiple
robotic hands and utensils.
I would, however, require that more than a simple vehicle control rig be
needed. A building needs a special interface to be controlled by a rigger.
A surgery drone (or whatever you want to call it) would probably also
function on some special protocols that would enable maximum utility of the
system.
I would also think that this sort of surgery would be reserved for
extremely delicate work, like brain surgery, or perhaps things like surgery
to correct birth defects in a child while it is still in the womb.
Probably a fair amount of cyberware implantation, especially those with
complex neural connections, would or could fall into this style of surgery
also.
My thoughts on the matter anyway.
Erik J.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 13:36:32 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <830325a6.354f1a71@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 09:56 AM 5/5/98 EDT, you wrote:
>The "Year of ..." stuff doesn't bother me overall, just the degree of
massive
>change. We were taught (is 'Taught a good word for this?) that if a Megacorp
>should change, then it would have many visible, viable shakings of the World
>Economic Tree. That didn't happen readily in the case of Fuchi/Novatech. In
>fact, the BitB book does make things happen over a 2 year period for that,
>BUT, we as the players have been given no interaction with it or
comprehension
>of it until that book came out, which ends up with the "current timeline" in
>the FASA story suite.
Well, I disagree some with you on this. Obviously there are massive
ramifications to the BitB storyline. Without giving too much away, the
world changes from the Big 8 to the Big 10. The balance of economic power
is shifted away from Japan, and is in fact diffused across the Pacific Rim;
Hong Kong gets a mega, as does Russia, Quebec, and the UCAS.
But it does seem a little too neat and tidy. I think that if say, GM were
to suddenly keel over and go bankrupt, not sell another car or anything,
there would be a whole mess of ramifications to be felt for years to come.
So maybe BitB is a bit too "clean" in that respect.
I have strong suspicions that the entire BitB plotline has two purposes.
One, to reflect different political sensibilities (less fear of Japanese
economic domination in 1998 than in 1988). And two, combined with SR3 it
really turns Shadowrun into Mike Mulvihill's baby (which, BTW, I understand
his wife Sharon is expecting any day now I think) and creates a whole new
fresh start for the game. I suspect that with SR3, all the old plotlines
are essentially wrapped up for the most part, allowing Mike and the FASA
team to start fresh, without any lingering influence from the old SR1 or
SR2 plots. But that's just a theory on my part; I've not actually had
conversations with Mike.
I've been playing the game since Desert Storm started in Jan. 91 (when I
was 18 and a freshman in college, still living in the dorms), so I've seen
it go through many phases in the last 7 years. And I really like the
direction it seems to be heading in right now.
Erik J.
"Oh, the silent helicopters and the men in black fatigues? They're just my
car pool to work."
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 13:37:19 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Running to GridSec?/Proper Subject lines
In-Reply-To: <199805051410.IAA01162@******.carl.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 08:10 AM 5/5/98 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:
>Erik Jameson wrote:
>/
>[snip: running to GridSec]
>/
>/ Not from me. I'd rather tease them with Gong Show references.
>
>Okay, as long as I get to be Jammie Farr ;)
>
Well, if your *really* want to be Jamie Farr, I won't be the one to stop you.
Don't know why anyone would *want* to be Jamie Farr, but hey, far be it
from me to tell you what to do.
;-)
Erik J.
"Ladies & Gentleman, the newest member of the band, the one and only Spice
Boy, GRUMPY SPICE!!!" <and the crowd goes wild!!!>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 13:38:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <c66bef58.354ea185@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 01:20 AM 5/5/98 EDT, Ereskanti wrote:
>I think they are hitting a snag that I've suddenly started putting together.
>I have noticed some things, between the more recent "editor guided novels"
and
>the sourcebooks that are either recently released or out now.
>
>Lofwyr mentions being in control of the IE's in Technobabel.
I don't think Lofwyr is really in totaly control of the IE's. It's more
like he's playing them, much like the IE's play mortals. And I'm sure
Lofwyr wasn't the only one toying with the IEs.
>There are possibilities that at least some of the IE's may be getting
"removed
>the game activities".
You mean getting killed? Haven't heard word one about this.
>The Horrors are gone (good/bad/indifferent) thanks to a Dragon's Sacrifice.
It certainly shuts down a storyline that if allowed unchecked, turns
Shadowrun into Earthdawn: 2050.
>Magic is being "reversed" in some aspects, better defined maybe, yes, that
>much I give and accept. But the development of Magic within the game
>mechanics of SR as a whole are taking a definite new tangent.
I know from private conversations with Steve that Magic is being reworked.
I don't think you can call it a tangent, that's not fair to Steve or FASA.
But some significant changes are at least being thought about. We'll all
have to wait and see what changes are actually implemented in SR3 and Magic
in the Shadows.
>If I didn't know any better, I would say that certain people now in
command of
>this "RPG Ship" are definitely changing the course of it.
That's because Mike Mulvihill has changed the course of the game. While
Tom Dowd did an excellent job, SR under him took a serious dive into the
more magical elements of the game (the Bugs & the Enemy). I'm not saying
this is bad; I love SR Magic. But Mike has a different vision; he's taking
SR back to the core ideas of the game, back to real shadowruns and
corporate infighting and that sort of thing. Making SR less like Earthdawn
and more like Cyberpunk.
>I know two, no make
>it three, people who have had conversations in attempts/negotiations to get
>material published/accepted to FASA that have given me a similar story. They
>were met with the response of "you have no idea what direction SR is
going, go
>away". At least in one of those individual's cases, the conversation was
more
>"graphically descriptive".
That's because they *don't* have a clue where FASA is going. The FASA
timeline is plotted out several years in advance. Only Mike Mulvihill
really knows what is going to happen next year. IF a proposed sourcebook
fits into that projected storyline, then it's cool. But chances are high
that it won't fit.
Mike should be applauded for what's he's doing to Shadowrun. Since he's
taken over, he's revitalized the game. He's eliminated several plot
threads that weren't as true to the core principles of SR as he would like
(the Enemy & the Invae). And has turned SR into a constantly changing and
evolving game universe. Nearly every other game system has a fairly static
universe; new sourcebooks simply delve in-depth into a portion of the game
world. But SR has upped the ante; their books not only do that, they also
push a timeline of events forward. Not only does this allow them to
publish more books (good from a business perspective) it also keeps the
game very fresh and alive. And that's one of the key reasons why I love
the game as much as I do.
>I guess that is what I am wondering. And I mean to have a description go
>beyond the concept of "it's a role playing game". I mean flat out, what is
>it? What is it going to be? What do -WE- the consumer/players of it want it
>to become overall? Are we going to have a vaguely magical cyberpunk game?
>Are we going to have a well defined game with an obvious course of direction
>to take? Are we going to have a list of ideas so vast open to us, that there
>will literally too many things to do?
FASA does listen, and care, about the people who purchase its games. But
honestly, they can only listen so much. The removal of the Enemy was at
least partially voted on by players. And we do know at least some of the
future of FASA; the BitB plot continues on through 2060, which is ahead of
the actual current SR dateline of 2059. And in that book, it projects out
how several of the upcoming sourcebooks will affect the story, or at least
expand upon the story.
>I know that people like Steve Kenson and Jon Szeto are occasional members and
>participants. I know that Steve has given a bunch of information for our
>general perusal and feedback. But I also know that the feedback didn't at
>least to the List indicate that much, if any, of it would be taken to heart.
Hey, even Steve gets turned down by FASA. But I do know that at least
Steve, and probably Jon too, honestly do listen to us and our concerns. At
the very least, we're a sort of "test market" or "market research
pool"
that allows them to look in and see what our reactions to SR are. They can
see the debates we have on magic, and the problems we have. They can see
all these things and then go back and report back to Mike and work to fix
our problems.
>Ideas, Guesses, Flames, Retorts, Commentary, Peanuts, Popcorn???
Okay, commentary, retorts and salted peanuts still in the shell, like the
sort that are mandatory to buy whenever you go to a baseball game.
Erik J.
"Forgive me FASA for I have sinned. It has been 6 days since I last played
Shadowrun and 15 days since I last bought a SRTCG booster pack."
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 13:40:06 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <199805050929.LAA15960@*****.xs4all.nl>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 11:30 AM 5/5/98 +0100, Gurth wrote:
>For one thing I don't like the annual storylines, where we have "the year
>of crime," "the year of the corps," and so on. Neither do I like the
idea
>of having everything stepped up a notch to some kind of higher stakes
>game, like it was supposed to after Dunkelzahn died.
Yes, to a certain extent, they are "annual storylines." But as BitB has
shown us, event that occurred in 2057, like the Big D's Will, are having
tremendous ramifications in 2059/2060. All those plotlines bounce off of
each other and are intertwined with each other. One event sets off
another. Gee, just like the real world.
I've told Mike Mulvihill himself that I love what he's been doing to the
world of Shadowrun. While I love magic in the game, I love that there is a
general return to the more cyberpunk roots of the game. For several years
now, the overarching importance of the megacorporations was badly
overshadowed by other game elements. They are finally being returned to
their rightful place of prominence.
Shadowrunners aren't really supposed to be goody-two-shoe Robin Hoods,
doing shadowruns for free just because they are against the Bugs or
something. The basic concept behind the game is that the players are
professional criminals that perform freelance operations for corporations
for money. Your game and your players/PCs may be different (and that's
fine), but that's the basic idea behind much of the game. FASA, under
Mike's direction of SR, is returning to that concept.
Personally, I'm eagerly awaiting all the new SR books, because I can't wait
to see what's next. I'm chomping at the bit to see what changes with SR3.
I love the changes that Mike is making. And I think as time will passes
those of you that are nervous or not very happy about SR's direction will
come around.
Erik J.
"Ladies & Gentleman, the newest member of the band, the one and only Spice
Boy, GRUMPY SPICE!!!" <and the crowd goes wild!!!>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 13:40:40 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Tournament GMing
In-Reply-To: <01EE95C716A4D01180E50040053AD0312833E5@*******.towersoft.c om.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Wow.
Thanks for the response from everyone, but I want to single out Geoff
Skellams for special notice. An excellent post not only for Con GMing but
also for normal GMing. Thanks for taking some extra time out to write an
extended post.
It sounds like I'll probably be fine; I tend to focus more on story than
mechanics anyway. If it's a good idea and makes sense with the PC in
question, I very often simply allow it to happen or let them roll some dice
and unless they roll all 1s and 2s, let it happen.
Here's a second question though, and this isn't just for Cons.
SR combat, especially when you have 6 or more players, can bog down and
take a lot of time. Combats of 10 or more people can sometimes take an
hour or more unless at least on character is a major ass-kicker.
Anyway around this? I don't want alternate combat rules or anything, the
system works okay as is, but are there any suggestions on how to speed
combat up? I've pondered this question for years when my brain gets spare
processing time. Haven't really come up with an answer.
Thanks again all.
Erik J.
"Oh my God, they killed Dunkelzahn! You bastards!!!"
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 13:47:09 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jeremiah Stevens <jeremiah@********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Surgeons as Riggers?
In-Reply-To: <01EE95C716A4D01180E50040053AD0312833E0@*******.towersoft.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> The cost of the operation was about A$1,000,000, although it is
> thought this will become a lot cheaper once all of the hardware is in
> place. It is thought it could be a viable solution for remote areas,
> such as the Australia outback, where residents rely on things like the
> Royal Flying Doctor Service, which costs many millions of dollars per
> year.
I would think that this sort of procedure would be the most useful for the
military, and that is where it would most likely be developed. (I know the
US Military is currently doing research in just this sort of thing).
Overall, the use of remote surgery would be the best in situations where a
doctor cannot be brought to the patient or patient to doctor. Thus, I
could see a platoon being equipped with a mobile surgery station which
would be operated by a rigger/surgeon in the rear echelons. Further,
depending on how advanced this technology has become, I could see
ambulances being equiped with a sugical station operated remotely and
outpatient clinics which can provide low-cost surgery performed by
remotes. I could even see drones using modified IVIS systems to work
together independently of the surgeon, thus allowing a single surgeon to
monitor a number of operations at one time, only popping into a drone if
something goes wrong.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 13:46:54 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: (OT)Gulf war (was: What's on the Trid?)
In-Reply-To: <199805042132.OAA11945@*****.efn.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> You feel old, I was in 5th grade when Kennedy was shot. In training
> at Fort Benning when Siagon fell and out of the Army by the Gulf
> War.
Ted Kennedy was shot?!?
-=SwiftOne=-
:)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 13:55:45 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: DNA/DOA
In-Reply-To: <199805051157.IAA07312@*******.scescape.net>
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> My bigest gripe about DNA/DOA is that becase SR was so new and
> untried back then, FASA had hired a big name D&D writer to write
> their first module, and the whole book just reeks of D&D cloaked in
> SR's clothes.
Yup. Only shadowrun adventure I've ever seen with a Wondering
Monster table.
-=SwiftOne=-
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 14:06:34 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
In-Reply-To: <199805051702.LAA13119@******.carl.org> from "David Buehrer"
at
May 5, 98 11:02:15 am
Mime-Version: 1.0
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<SNIP>
> The sexual security of men also has to do with their age. I don't
> know why, but that seems to be the case. For example, when I was
> younger everything Alexia said was right on the nose. Neither I, nor
> any of my friends, were secure sexually. Well, except for Bill, but
> he was an exception. Nowadays my sexuality is pretty secure, as is
> the sexuality of my friends. I can even point out to my friend Craig
> that his tight ass probably drives women crazy.
>
Amen to that. Of course this doesn't always seem to hold true
to women as you suggested. Unusual, but I never claimed to understand
the opposite sex. :)
<SNIP>
>
> Over time most men either get used to it and learn to deal with their
> sexuality, or the testosterone level drops off and they don't care.
> I learned to deal with it :) Being married also adds to my level of
> security <shrug>.
>
Heh...isn't that the truth.
> I don't think that sexuality should be a dead issue in Shadowrun. I
> think that problems similar to today's problems should exist. Men
> should still, in general, be "tight" when it comes to sexuality. I
> don't know what women should be cuz I don't understand them ;) With
> the advent of cybertechnology and advanced cosmetic surgery the lines
> should be blurred, while being more in the fore front.
>
> Is that a man or a woman, both, neither? What do you mean you used
> to be a man? I only date women that used to be men, they know how to
> make love to a man. Etc.
>
I agree, although that largely seems to depend on your players. Some
groups love the roleplaying, odd parts. (Ever have a contest to see
who can pick up a lady in a bar? Ever had your PC's fight over
someone? Or ever use the fact that a guy was once a girl as a plot device?)
Some groups, can't stand that sorta thing.
Ah well....anybody here ever read Jennifer Roberson's Tiger and Del, SwordDancer series?
Interesting commentary on men & women differences wrapped up
in very good books. (At least the 1st two).
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 13:56:43 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Damn books (was Re:Mo' bettah Cyberdoodads)
In-Reply-To: <199805051535.LAA32661@****.qc.ca> from "Frank Pelletier" at
May
5, 98 12:29:05 pm
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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>
> Airwasp <Airwasp@***.COM> once wrote,
>
> :) SR Books have let me down more than once. Some interresting pieces
> might filter through, but the DragonHeart saga was such a munchie fest and
> (all respect due to Jak Koke) the last book was..to say the least..
> well..you know...
>
> SR Books always seem to have the need to push the rules of the damn game
> they're supposed to represent (And I won't even touch anything written by
> Carl Sargent). Why? Dunno.
>
> You can have a pretty damn good book without those GIJoe squared-jaw
> supermodel-shadowrunners-of-death-and-destruction (i.e. Neuromancer,
> Count Zero). Please, SR writters, if you give a damn... can't you write
> something that remotly ressembles the game we play? Last time I checked,
> I couldn't play a drake... I haven't found a drake in the paranormal
> books, or Awakenings, or the Grimmy, or... ya get it.
>
This fits in with an interesting theory of mine, so I guess I'll
mention it here. Do you ever notice how in many games, the rulebooks
dictate the history,game etc, and the novels just fill in the story.
(Case in point, FASA,Battletech and the Clan invasion, at least the
early books). Lately in SR it seems the novels describe the story, and
you must by them not the rule books. No offense to Kenson (who is
a wonderful writer) or Koke. I haven't read TechnoBabel yet, and
most likely won't get around to it for awhile. So instead I buy and
read BinB, but am I missing the background from not reading Techno?
So do I buy the book, read it, and then summarize it for my players
so they know what's been going on? See what I'm getting at?
Usually I buy every sourcebook and most modules, but pick and choose
novels, since some authors are better then others.
Just my grip perhaps.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 14:18:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980505181930.00eee100@****.interware.it>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:19 PM 5/5/98 +0200, you wrote:
>If anyone read Technobabel, you'll see the return of an old group of people
>:) being the cause (lateral, ok) of the impending corp war.
You know, the more I read here, the less I like the term "corp war" to
describe the projected BitB events. It isn't a bloody war, there is no
Omega Order handed down. There's just a lot of sh*t that happens and one
mega is lost, three more are born. But it's not a true "corp war."
>But overall I'm pretty satisfied by FASA course. As a GM, I have the last
>word on what fits or not in MY game world, and this helps a lot. The magic
>angle is still pretty important (Cyberpirates) but it's not the one and
>only power in the SR world. Thanks Mike for that, I was tired of grounding
>fireballs on clueless runners...
Exactly. While pounding runners with fireballs is often fun, it's also a
kick to pound them with PACs or even Doom-loaded Narcojets...
As an aside, here's a truely evil thing to do to a mage - set up an ambush,
with all the attackers packing Narcojets or some drug delivery device,
doesn't matter. Pack a mixed load of Stims (since stims can cause Magic
loss), Doom (permanent Attribute damage without extremely expensive genetic
therapy I think), Gamma-Anthrax (because it's nasty), Gamma-Scopolamine
(it'll make nearly anyone but a super troll helpless) and throw in some
good old fasioned poison just for fun. Even say, three people, if they can
fire three shots each, can do a seriously wicked number on anyone, but
especially a magician. Did that once...
>The Horrors thread has been downsized (thanks to the countless Harlequin's
>Back modules ran all around the world) but not cleared. And the focus of
>the SR world is now balanced between tech and magic.
Exactly. And as near as I can tell, that's the entire purpose.
>And...
>
>can someone tell me why I wrote this post? :)
You were going through withdrawal from RN?
Erik J.
"Forgive me FASA for I have sinned. It has been 6 days since I last played
Shadowrun and 15 days since I last bought a SRTCG booster pack."
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 14:12:54 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: DNA/DOA
In-Reply-To: <74A60C22AB@**.opp.psu.edu> from "Brett Borger" at May 5,
98 01:55:45 pm
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>
> > My bigest gripe about DNA/DOA is that becase SR was so new and
> > untried back then, FASA had hired a big name D&D writer to write
> > their first module, and the whole book just reeks of D&D cloaked in
> > SR's clothes.
>
> Yup. Only shadowrun adventure I've ever seen with a Wondering
> Monster table.
>
hey, whats wrong with that? :)
Actually does anyone besides me have a random encounter table?
I have a couple different versions based on location, etc.
Gangs, vagrants, Corps slumming, Devil Rats etc. I don't use it
often, but it keeps that "you drive from Club Penumbra to the Needle"
from getting too old and boring. :)
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 12:24:13 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Loseke <mike@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: DNA/DOA
In-Reply-To: <74A60C22AB@**.opp.psu.edu> from "Brett Borger" at May 5,
98 01:55:45 pm
Content-Type: text
Thus spake Brett Borger:
>
> > My bigest gripe about DNA/DOA is that becase SR was so new and
> > untried back then, FASA had hired a big name D&D writer to write
> > their first module, and the whole book just reeks of D&D cloaked in
> > SR's clothes.
>
> Yup. Only shadowrun adventure I've ever seen with a Wondering
> Monster table.
True. I'm playing in DNA/DOA for the first time right now. I'm one of
two experienced players among 6 or 7. I never played DNA/DOA so it's kind
of funny seeing how far the game has come. I'm having fun mainly because
my Troll Physad isn't the leader so I get to let the inexperienced guys
take the lead (with a few nudges here and there of course).
It is a goofy module, but we moved it to Denver (among other changes)
so it has a much different atmosphere. Not to mention tougher azzies.
We never played many of the modules, mainly because they haven't been
as interesting as some of the stuff our GM's have come up with. It's
nice to throw them in once in a while though.
--
Mike Loseke | Unix: Best used by its freshness
mike@*******.com | date of January 19, 2038
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:27:37 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: DNA/DOA
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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----------
> From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: DNA/DOA
> Date: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 12:12 PM
>
> >
> > > My bigest gripe about DNA/DOA is that becase SR was so new and
> > > untried back then, FASA had hired a big name D&D writer to write
> > > their first module, and the whole book just reeks of D&D cloaked in
> > > SR's clothes.
> >
> > Yup. Only shadowrun adventure I've ever seen with a Wondering
> > Monster table.
> >
> hey, whats wrong with that? :)
> Actually does anyone besides me have a random encounter table?
> I have a couple different versions based on location, etc.
> Gangs, vagrants, Corps slumming, Devil Rats etc. I don't use it
> often, but it keeps that "you drive from Club Penumbra to the Needle"
> from getting too old and boring. :)
>
Wasn't there a book of them? I don't remember the name now... We used to
have a copy of it somewhere... something like "Sprawl Sites". Seemed more
like "random adventures" than random encounters, but it had a long series
of tables.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 12:53:21 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Tournament GMing
In-Reply-To: <199805051751.LAA26168@******.carl.org> from "Erik Jameson"
at
May 5, 98 01:40:40 pm
Content-Type: text
Erik Jameson wrote:
/
/ Here's a second question though, and this isn't just for Cons.
/
/ SR combat, especially when you have 6 or more players, can bog down and
/ take a lot of time. Combats of 10 or more people can sometimes take an
/ hour or more unless at least on character is a major ass-kicker.
/
/ Anyway around this? I don't want alternate combat rules or anything, the
/ system works okay as is, but are there any suggestions on how to speed
/ combat up? I've pondered this question for years when my brain gets spare
/ processing time. Haven't really come up with an answer.
Using minatures (or some form of character representation: dice,
pieces of paper, etc) and drawing out the environment on paper, a
chalkboard, a dry-erase board, one of those nice dry-erase mats,
whatever, can keep things moving fairly smoothly. You don't have to
be an artist. Just draw a square and write "crate" on it, or "car",
or whatever the sqaure represents.
Or you can grab some matchbox cars, styrofoam cups, some shoeboxes,
and lay them out on the carpet and you've got a city block.
Players, and the GM, can better visualize what's going on and how the
flow of combat is progressing. They can then make decisions
quicker. At least that's how it works from my experience.
-David
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 14:51:53 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Damn books (was Re:Mo' bettah Cyberdoodads)
In-Reply-To: <199805051535.LAA32661@****.qc.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:29 PM 5/5/98 +0000, you wrote:
>Then again, there's.... there's... 6-port multi-datajacks? Munchie.
You could always just get six datajacks, tho' I can't figure what you'd
need them all for. I have given a character -two- before, and that seemed
sufficient...
>Extendable finger digits? Munchie.
I can't understand why this is munchy. A little odd perhaps, but so is
replacing a meat limb with a meatl and plastic one ("My hands are never
going to feel the same again"). Think if you were rebuilding some part of
your body to be better, stronger, more useful, wouldn't you want to be able
to palm something bigger than a basketball? :) Cyber is there to offer
abilities that didn't exist before... Frankly, I think CP does a better
job in some places of offering cyber that people would really buy, because
it's interesting and useful. SR has a habit of only presenting the things
you'd see on a runner, or from a runner's POV. Think for a minute, if you
will, on what you can actually -do- with a computer in SR. How much memory
does a word-processing/desktop publishing prog use? What all can one
actually do with a wrist comp? Apparently they are only there to hold
datasteals. :)
>You can have a pretty damn good book without those GIJoe squared-jaw
>supermodel-shadowrunners-of-death-and-destruction (i.e. Neuromancer,
>Count Zero). Please, SR writters, if you give a damn... can't you write
>something that remotly ressembles the game we play? Last time I checked,
>I couldn't play a drake... I haven't found a drake in the paranormal
>books, or Awakenings, or the Grimmy, or... ya get it.
Yes, I think scale is a problem for SR nowadays. While it is interesting
to have novels which give some glimpses of the really powerful folks, the
emphasis of SR early on was the -street-. Runners, while perhaps sometimes
wealthy, were still street-level criminals. They might have an impact on
the city, but they weren't shaking the world. Now, I realize some people
run campaigns with earth-shaking events based on the characters' actions,
but I think it far from the rule. I think the novels would be best if they
concentrated on characters that you might see in your average Saturday
night SR game. They might actually be Shadowrun novels, then.
losthalo@********.comwhileyouarelisteningyourwillingattentionismakingyoumore
andmoreintothepersonyouwanttobecome.
"Some things are true whether you believe them or not."
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:04:41 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
In-Reply-To: <199805051702.LAA13119@******.carl.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 11:02 AM 5/5/98 -0600, you wrote:
>I think it's cuz women don't have to deal with testosterone. From
>the ages of 1-11 I couldn't care less about sexuality issues. Then,
>Bang, I couldn't think of anything else and didn't understand it a
>bit. It's like getting a craving for icecream and you're pretty sure
>you know what flavor you want, but you don't have a clue as to how to
>get some, let alone knowing how to eat it.
I disagree on the matter of testosterone; biology is a major factor, but
nowhere near the only one. It has far more to do with cultural standards
and behaviors. Women are supposed to attract men, so sexuality is much
more of a frontal part of their thinking and psychology. And while men
tend to be nearly obsessed with sex (myself not excluded), culture dictates
that we are the bread winners, that sex is to be pushed back on our
priorities.
This holds true in many, many different cultures. The woman is supposed to
find a man and have babies. The man is supposed to provide for them all.
As far as clothing and compliments go, it's also culture. A woman at a
club dresses to attract a man, to show off her body (which, at a primal
level, is showing her "fertility"). A man dresses to impress, to show off
his wealth (which, at a primal level, is showing his ability to provide for
his children). And women have been conditioned to be very fashion concious
and will discuss fashion. Men have been conditioned to the opposite, that
fashion is for girls, that simple and functional is better with clothing.
Now in 1998 USA, this is starting to change as part of the fallout from the
so-called sexual revolution. But it's a part of our biology and it's a
integral part of our society, so I don't see it radically changing.
>Over time most men either get used to it and learn to deal with their
>sexuality, or the testosterone level drops off and they don't care.
>I learned to deal with it :) Being married also adds to my level of
>security <shrug>.
Married? That explains a lot; you no longer have to prove your
masculinity. Single men still do, which provides for a certain level of
insecurity since single men are always having to prove their masculinity
and "proper" sexuality. That's *one* reason why there is that whole "notch
on the bedpost" thing.
>Is that a man or a woman, both, neither? What do you mean you used
>to be a man? I only date women that used to be men, they know how to
>make love to a man. Etc.
Gah. That's a small fetish now; given the medical advances by 205x, it
would have to be a thriving fetish niche industry. Egads. And think of
the plot devices that could be used with this...what better way to hide
yourself from everyone than to change not only your appearance but your
sex? Kinda like that one guy/girl in Escape from LA actually.
Wow. Maybe I'll create a one of these characters for my Comic Con SR game,
and give it to a mature player if I find one. That could be fun...
Sexuality, in a mature game, can be very potent. It can be a great plot
device; what started out as a bar pickup ended up as a marriage engagement
for a character of mine.
But here's the crux of the matter:
I think most people avoid it because it can quickly degenerate into
immaturity quickly. I mean, sex that had THAC0's for example. I had a
player recently that while a male, wanted to play a voluptous female that
would and could seduce nearly any man. There was a certain titilation for
this 18-yr old. Needless to say, neither the PC or the player lasted very
long in my game.
It's like racism, which we discussed a while back here. It's an integral
part of the game and can be used to powerful effect, but there's so many
things that can and often do go wrong that most people avoid dealing with
the subject. Too many times you get sex THAC0's and score fests and "I
roll my Charisma, okay, I got a 9, 6, 5, 5, and a 4. Does she go to bed
with me?" Absolute crap.
And to be truthful, a role-played seduction doesn't go over very well also,
simply because a real seduction takes an extended amount of time, time that
could be better spent killing bad guys and making nuyen.
Anyway, it's about time for lunch here.
Erik J.
"Ladies & Gentleman, the newest member of the band, the one and only Spice
Boy, GRUMPY SPICE!!!" <and the crowd goes wild!!!>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 14:33:05 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Panther <qmilton@**.NET>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <199805051628.LAA20996@*****.interkan.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Does anyone remember the
> little slogan you see about Shadowrun in the game shop posters?
> "Where man meets machine in an age of magic". The way things are
> going, I wouldn't be surprised if Haley's Comet takes all of the
> magic with it when it leaves.
If it does, I guarantee right now that I'll stop buying SR stuff and
keep what I've got. The original premise for SR (IMHO) was a
cyberpunk game where magic was just beginning to return to the earth.
The way the game's bg is written, you simply CAN'T get rid of the
magic and still have it be SR. You can LIMIT it, yes. But if it
totally gets removed from the game you no longer have SR, you have CP
2020.
> In the games I've played, most have been magic-related. If
> nothing else,
> having a mage along has helped us get out of scrapes we couldn't
> have pulled off without a huge outlay of firepower and more bodies
> than we really wanted to contemplate A de-emphasization turns this
> into another Rifts, where we buy more books just to see what new
> toys we've been provided with, rather than what it was intended to
> be: a point where both magic and technology, two otherwise
> irreconcilable forces, were both necessary to get shit done.
Not only that, but by forcing us to have more firepower and ppl on a
team, it attempts to force us to play merc campaigns
> > >One OFF
> >
> > Two with mine.
> Three..
Make it four
Panther
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:08:03 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <c66bef58.354ea185@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I like the fact that the Horrors are being postponed. My own oft-stated
preference is that the Horrors show up in the SR world and get their
collective asses handed to them on a platter by military forces experienced
in integrating technology and magic, the result of a world where research
can be shared across the world in an instant through the Matrix. I don't
want the game to turn into a sudden "everyone bands together to fight
Horrors" (which is the sensible reaction to a massive invasion). I'd
rather just have a few that snuck through for PC's to deal with
individually once in a while. (If it's more than two adventures in a
campaign, then the PC's ought to be explicitly *hunting* the damn things...)
I like the downplaying of the immortal elves. I really disliked
Black Madonna, and prefer to have them as mere players, not massive
forces behind the scenes. Sure, the Tirs and Azania are strongholds
of IEdom, but they're neither the largest nor most powerful countries,
and they're not even very nice places to live unless you're an elf
who agrees with the policies of the regime. I enjoy having immortal
elves in SR as players, but I'm going to ignore all the bits about
them being important historical figures unless they're explicitly
called out in an SR sourcebook. (I tend to ignore novels unless they're
shoehorned in via sourcebook-- physical adepts cannot parry bullets
with katanas in my game, Leonardo da Vinci was a human being that
Ehran the Scribe knew personally, and Queen Elizabeth was *not* Alachia.)
I like the Earthdawn background to the SR world as something very
subtle that the PC's can discover.
At 01:20 5/5/98 EDT, Ereskanti insinuated:
>What is -SR- then?
Shadowrun is a game about shadowrunners. Shadowrunning is usually
a matter of doing illegal deeds for someone who needs them performed by
"deniable assets" that can't be traced to the person hiring the runners.
FASA is providing us with plenty of motivations for shadowruns with Threats
and by stirring things up with Blood in the Boardroom, and plenty of
motivations for going out and doing things without a Johnson via
Dunkelzahn's Secrets. Corporate Shadowfiles is, in my opinion, one
of the best books for spawning shadowruns (though it make take a lot
of work for the PC's to figure out *why* a run is being performed,
if you start with a high-level motivation and then work out the pieces
down to where the runners come in).
>I guess that is what I am wondering. And I mean to have a description go
>beyond the concept of "it's a role playing game". I mean flat out, what is
>it? What is it going to be? What do -WE- the consumer/players of it want it
>to become overall? Are we going to have a vaguely magical cyberpunk game?
>Are we going to have a well defined game with an obvious course of direction
>to take? Are we going to have a list of ideas so vast open to us, that there
>will literally too many things to do?
Shadowrun itself doesn't need a course of direction; it's a role-playing
game. FASA are advancing time in their game, releasing sourcebooks
showing how the history of the Shadowrun world unfolds, rather than just
pumping out more things detailing a static world where it's always 2050,
unlike many other RPG's.
History doesn't tend to have a direction-- it just keeps going, and you
react to it. You can see the chain of events fairly well: Aztlan
leads to Harlequin's Back leads to Dunkelzahn's Secrets leads to
Blood in the Boardroom, and I like seeing these chains of causality.
The direction they're taking is obvious: advance time, and examine how
the world changes as a result of past actions. As long as they take the
time to make sure these changes are consistent, and important events are
not forgotten, I'm pretty happy. I like having a balance between
magic and technology-- the SOTA should be steadily advancing for both
of them.
I *would* like to see more emphasis on consistency. There have been a
number of places where FASA has been in dire need of it. As a
San Francisco Bay Area native, I was appalled by how inaccurate the
map in the Cal Free State sourcebook was, and I've heard they're not
much better for many other places. Rigger 2 needed a lot more playtesting
and consistency checking, and the layout had a lot of problems; I'm
looking forward to an official errata. The SOTA rules in the Shadowrun
Companion seldom make sense (it gets harder to set a broken arm
because the SOTA advanced in a corporate lab? people with wired reflexes
get closer to normal speed when someone invents a faster grade of cyberware?).
Cyberpirates and Rigger 2 break the skill system with Concentrations that
follow different mechanics from the General Skills they Concentrate from.
I would also like to see more details on the rest of the world-- I'm hoping
that Smuggler's Havens will fill in a few things like Siberia and Azania
and Amazonia, and with all the Japanese megacorps, I'm amazed there hasn't
been a Japan sourcebook, or one for eastern Asia.
--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "Ham is good... Glowing *tattooed* ham is *bad*!" - the Tick %%
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:13:06 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <199805051553.LAA00396@****.qc.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:46 PM 5/5/98 +0000, you wrote:
>Read my previous post on that (Damn Books)... I think all SR novels
>basically suck, compared to the fine game they're supposed to represent.
One caveat: 2XS, for me, seemed one of the novels that preserved the level
of power I like to see. Dirk, when the big, scary stuff started happening,
was -scared-, he knew it was out of his league. A Colt Manhunter was his
weapon of choice, and he thought of it as a big fraggin' gun. And I think
the atmosphere presented was definitely worth the read, I think 2XS is one
of the SR novels that could have made it as a novel without the FASA
endorsement as an SR-related product, it was good.
>And a good thing too. IEs were the scapegoat/plausible explanation for
>anything from fovae to human achievements to jiffy-pop popcorn. Damn!
>Madagascar seems fucked up! IEs... Tir Na Nog is a land full of mystery.
>IEs... Humanity grew from nothing to develop a superb cultural
>background, thanks in part to the works of geniuses like Leonardo
>DaVinci...IE...
>
>Get rid of them, keep them, I don't care... Just don't put them as the
>central figures behind everything.
Exactly. Runners should be the focus of the game material, and novels
about the game world.
>We all know IEs and horrors and that crossover thing were Dowd's
>brainchild. Mr. Mulvihil seems to me more corporate/punkish/street
>level-inclined. And I say amen to that!
I second that opinion...
>Nobody truly knows where SR is headed, except the DLOH. And that's good.
>Imagine is everyone threw in their ideas at FASA, begging them to accept
>THEIR views of SR...
You know what, I liked SR better when it didn't have a "direction". I'd
much rather come up with a 'direction' for my game world on my own. What I
want from a game is rules for things, background on what has come before,
what's possible. Possible directions for the game world are, to me, best
left optional, so that you don't have to include them in your campaign to
use other material for the game. Then again, I don't use modules and
campaign material, for most games. So I suppose the one gripe I have is
the "magic is getting more and more powerful" theme, which bugs me because
it seems to be happening so quickly in the SR universe...
losthalo@********.comwhileyouarelisteningyourwillingattentionismakingyoumore
andmoreintothepersonyouwanttobecome.
"Some things are true whether you believe them or not."
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:15:47 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
In-Reply-To: <199805051702.LAA13119@******.carl.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:02 AM 5/5/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Is that a man or a woman, both, neither? What do you mean you used
>to be a man? I only date women that used to be men, they know how to
>make love to a man. Etc.
For a take on that, read "When Gravity Fails" by George Alec Effinger. :)
losthalo@********.comwhileyouarelisteningyourwillingattentionismakingyoumore
andmoreintothepersonyouwanttobecome.
"Some things are true whether you believe them or not."
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:29:55 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paul Gettle <pgettle@********.NET>
Subject: Feeling old [was: Re: DNA/DOA]
In-Reply-To: <199805051831.LAA01463@*********.cobaltgroup.com>
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At 11:27 AM 5/5/98 -0700, Bolthy wrote:
>Wasn't there a book of them? I don't remember the name now... We
used to
>have a copy of it somewhere... something like "Sprawl Sites". Seemed
more
>like "random adventures" than random encounters, but it had a long
series
>of tables.
This, of all things, makes me feel a lot older than the whole 'I was
in 5th grade during the Gulf War' thread.
I've been generally laughing at the absurdity of the Sprawl Sites book
since... oh, since when the outfit the decker archtype wears was
actually in style.
Only the last 20 pages of it were even worth the paper it was printed
on.
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--
-- Paul Gettle (pgettle@********.net)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:11455339 (RSA 1024, created 97/08/08)
625A FFF0 76DC A077 D21C 556B BB58 00AA
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:35:13 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Craig J Wilhelm Jr <craigjwjr@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: What is a CF?
In-Reply-To: <006401bd7820$630c9ee0$7bf2f4cd@****>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On 08:21 AM 5/5/98 , Jerry Hill wrote:
>>> I always thought a CF was a cubic foot.
>
>> Naw..CF stands for Cargo Factor...WHich until Rigger2 had no actual
>> measurement or direct volume relationship..
>
>
>Well, a cubic foot would be... about 0.027 cubic meters... with 0.125 cubic
>meters to the cf, a cf is about 5 cubic feet. Bigger than I really thought
>it would be.
The Rigger2 CF is a whole lot bigger than the RBB version. Going from a
unit of mass mesure (25 kilos), which would come out to .025 cubic meters
of water, to a unit of volume makes a whole lot more sense. When I hear
cargo, I think space. Now that we have Load and bigger CF, I can finaly
build some REAL vehicles!
Now the only real problem I have with R2 is economy. I know the reason
it's low is to fit with SUX-2000-type-gas-guzzling-grittyness of a
cyberpunk(-ish) setting. But come on... What if someone wants to make a
long range van type thing like my group had with RBB? I really can't since
the best economy I can get with a van is 2.37mpg! Oh sure, I could, if I
went and gave it a 500 gallon gas tank...(?!?!?) Where would I put it? I
guess I could just continue and add economy with the standard formula and
ignore maximums. Can anyone think of any problems I might run into if I did
this? Besides jacking prices throught the roof that is. :)
Craig "Knee Deep in the Blood of Swine" Wilhelm
Afterlife Incorperated,
Quality Carnage at Affordable Prices.
UIN: 1864690
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:33:11 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: DNA/DOA
In-Reply-To: <199805051831.LAA01463@*********.cobaltgroup.com> from "Jeremy
\"Bolthy\" Zimmerman" at May 5, 98 11:27:37 am
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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>
<SNIP>
> > hey, whats wrong with that? :)
> > Actually does anyone besides me have a random encounter table?
> > I have a couple different versions based on location, etc.
> > Gangs, vagrants, Corps slumming, Devil Rats etc. I don't use it
> > often, but it keeps that "you drive from Club Penumbra to the Needle"
> > from getting too old and boring. :)
> >
>
> Wasn't there a book of them? I don't remember the name now... We used to
> have a copy of it somewhere... something like "Sprawl Sites". Seemed more
> like "random adventures" than random encounters, but it had a long series
> of tables.
Yep I'm pretty sure it was sprawl sites, although I don't like their
tables that much. :)
I think Predator and Prey may have had something similiar, but I don't
own it yet, and my memory is a bit fuzzy. :)
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:40:02 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paul Gettle <pgettle@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980505114636.22478b70@****.fbiz.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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At 03:04 PM 5/5/98 -0400, Erik wrote:
>I think most people avoid it because it can quickly degenerate into
>immaturity quickly. I mean, sex that had THAC0's for example.
Of course, that can depend on the maturity level of the gamers in
question. I don't know if I mentioned this back when I posted about
sex w/ THAC0s but back then, the average age of my gaming group was
12, myself included. I wouldn't dare handle the issue that way in my
current games.
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--
-- Paul Gettle (pgettle@********.net)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:11455339 (RSA 1024, created 97/08/08)
625A FFF0 76DC A077 D21C 556B BB58 00AA
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 12:40:46 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Vagabond <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
Content-Type: text/plain
>> I haven't enjoyed the storylines in recent years very much, to be
honest.
>> I liked Bug City and most of the stuff before that, but what came
after
>> was a bit so-so for my taste. (Note that I'm talking about source
material
>> which advances the "universe storyline" here, not rulebooks.) Mike
>> Mulvihill seems to have definite ideas where things should go, but
from
>> what I've seen of them they're not really going where I'd like them
to.
>
>Wow, when I think about it, the storyline in general, I guess I would
almost
>have to agree with you. You can almost feel when Mr. Mulhillvil IMO
took
>control, as that was when the (the FASA Universe) started to "clean up"
the
>mess(es) left from the previous conTROLLers ( :P). I personally think
I
>would have been just fine with "Bug City" remaining for many years
instead of
>just a few.
<rant>
*sigh* I've been saying this for HOW many months now? Only when
someone else says it do people start to agree. I give up. <g>
</rant>
-Vagabond
"Under wandering stars I've grown"
________________________________________________________
<nomad74@*******.com> <ICQ 4297972>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:43:40 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Panther <qmilton@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980505032331.34f73d4a@**********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> At 11:02 AM 5/5/98 -0600, you wrote:
> >Is that a man or a woman, both, neither? What do you mean you used
> >to be a man? I only date women that used to be men, they know how to
> >make love to a man. Etc.
>
> For a take on that, read "When Gravity Fails" by George Alec
> Effinger. :)
Not to mention the CP 2020 sourcebook by the same name
Pantherr
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:48:22 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: What is a CF?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Craig J Wilhelm Jr wrote:
>>>> I always thought a CF was a cubic foot.
>>> Naw..CF stands for Cargo Factor...WHich until Rigger2 had no actual
>>> measurement or direct volume relationship..
>
> The Rigger2 CF is a whole lot bigger than the RBB version. Going from
>a
>unit of mass mesure (25 kilos), which would come out to .025 cubic meters
>of water, to a unit of volume makes a whole lot more sense. When I hear
>cargo, I think space. Now that we have Load and bigger CF, I can finaly
>build some REAL vehicles!
As a previous poster wrote, RBB had no measurement for a CF. A CF
was a combined factor including the volume, mass and complexity
of electrical connections required. R2 now defines 1 CF to be
0.125 m^3. R2 added Load and Flux to compensate for the others.
> Now the only real problem I have with R2 is economy. I know the
>reason
>it's low is to fit with SUX-2000-type-gas-guzzling-grittyness of a
>cyberpunk(-ish) setting. But come on... What if someone wants to make a
>long range van type thing like my group had with RBB? I really can't since
>the best economy I can get with a van is 2.37mpg! Oh sure, I could, if I
Well, the max economy of a gasoline-powered van is 9 km/L. I don't
know what that translates into in imperial, but with the stock 95L
of gas, that would take you 855 km (534 miles). That's not a bad
range... Add 1 CF (50L) of fuel, that'll take you 1305 km.
>went and gave it a 500 gallon gas tank...(?!?!?) Where would I put it? I
>guess I could just continue and add economy with the standard formula and
>ignore maximums. Can anyone think of any problems I might run into if I did
>this? Besides jacking prices throught the roof that is. :)
What's wrong with 1305 km for 1 CF? Apart from the van costing a huge
28,000Y I mean? ;-)
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 13:47:31 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
In-Reply-To: <199805051922.NAA20091@******.carl.org> from "losthalo" at
May 5,
98 03:15:47 pm
Content-Type: text
losthalo wrote:
/
/ At 11:02 AM 5/5/98 -0600, you wrote:
/ >Is that a man or a woman, both, neither? What do you mean you used
/ >to be a man? I only date women that used to be men, they know how to
/ >make love to a man. Etc.
/
/ For a take on that, read "When Gravity Fails" by George Alec Effinger. :)
Is that the one that takes place on the moon and the character starts
off as a male and then changes her sex to female, her mom breeds
dinosaurs, and she owns a house in the "old west"?
Good book. Definitely some fun concepts in that one.
-David
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:46:24 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Running to GridSec?/Proper Subject lines
In-Reply-To: <199805051410.IAA01162@******.carl.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|> From: Of David Buehrer
|> Sent: May 5, 1998 10:10 AM
|> Subject: Re: Running to GridSec?/Proper Subject lines
|> / Not from me. I'd rather tease them with Gong Show references.
|>
|> Okay, as long as I get to be Jammie Farr ;)
OOOOh, can I be the Unknown Comic? I look good in a paper bag.
Katt
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:46:39 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Non-running sources of income (was Re: Talismongering)
In-Reply-To: <199805051625.AA146468@*****.scri.fsu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hi,
This thread reminds me of the current CP2020 game I am involved in. At
one point, during downtime, one of the team died, something that happened
while he was accessing a data source. My team being what it is, my character
not likeing other people much, we used the old adage, "Parts is parts,
people is people, dead people is parts." And stripped him of his cybernetics
and gear. Then we brought him to a body bank to sell his body. On the way we
got stopped by the police, but I got away with the body, while the other two
members of the team got taken in for questioning. Well, they got out okay,
and I got all the money for the body. My team mates keep forgetting about
it.
Katt Freyson
ICQ UIN 3337155
Montreal, Canada
http://www.dsuper.net/~katt
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:46:34 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Mo' bettah Cyberdoodads
In-Reply-To: <199805051618.JAA11808@*********.cobaltgroup.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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|> From: Jeremy "Bolthy" Zimmerman
|> Sent: May 5, 1998 12:14 PM
|> Subject: Re: Mo' bettah Cyberdoodads
|> If you're into non-SR references, this reminds me that Turner,
|> in Gibson's
|> "Count Zero" had "dust covers" for his datajacks, IIRC. Nothing
fancy or
|> sophisticated, just a little plug that he put into his jack when
|> he wasn't
|> using it to keep ickies from getting in. =)
I am suprised that this was never included in SR [If I err pardon] and
even CP2020 does not seem to have those. Though I believe that Solo of
Fortune did. Whatever, this makes so much sense that I would rule [as a GM]
that these come automatically with Datajacks.
Katt Freyson
ICQ UIN 3337155
Montreal, Canada
http://www.dsuper.net/~katt
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 14:56:49 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <199805051517.RAA05470@****.mhnet.fr>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> I can see 2 kinds of "year of..." threads. The first doesn't have too much
> implications. I think about carribean or underworld here. The other ones,
> those which change drastically the world, are a bit too much IMO. The worst
> of all is this corp war thread. I didn't read the novel but that seems a
> bit stupid to me. In SR, megacorps aren't as powerful as in Cyberpunk. What
> benefits could they gain from such a war... And when I hear about an
> arcology shutdown, that makes me wonder a lot. What is it ? To me, it seems
> more an **&* dungeon than anything else... :(
Acually I have been talking with the writers ofthis book, Dave Hyatt and
Boris (don't know his real name... he did most of BitB) and from what he
has let eek out this isn't going to be a Dungon crawl.
-Czar
-Currently Suffering from Shadowland Withdrawal
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Czar Eggbert
Ruler, Dark Side of the Moon.
homepage: http://travel.to/czareggbert.empire
mailto: czregbrt@*********.edu
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"I lived my life in a ship in a bottle in a world in a glass jar..."
-Mike Fontaine
"CRACK! SMASH! SHATTER!"
-Helen Stunkard
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 12:56:59 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Vagabond <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Bug City [was Re: FASA's On/Off Course?]
Content-Type: text/plain
>*spit take!*
>
>Bug City is over? You mean Chicago is no longer overrun by insect
spirits?
Contrary to what the UCAS gov't and Ares want you to believe, it's
not "insect free".
> Criminy, I do feel out of the loop now... Was this in a novel, or was
>there an adventure where the runners help clean up the community?
>
It's in Target: UCAS. Go to http://www.FASA.com and read the "State
of the Union" address.
Ares came up with a way to weaken the bugs(unfortunatly it weakens
ALL astrally-present beings, including ghouls) and take them out easier.
All these really means is the Bugs went "Underground" and aren't going
to be as easy to spot anymore(and the ghoul community is pissed). Of
course, I also believe that the more powerful spirits found away to
avoid the problem, and it doesn't get rid of Insect *shamans*.
We ain't done with the bugs yet. Not by a long shot.
-Vagabond
"Pull back. Nuke 'em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
-Lt. Ripley, "Aliens"
________________________________________________________
<nomad74@*******.com> <ICQ 4297972>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 14:48:54 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Tournament GMing
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
> Or you can grab some matchbox cars, styrofoam cups, some shoeboxes,
> and lay them out on the carpet and you've got a city block.
We've actually used GI Joes and Legos to fudge when miniatures weren't
available.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 12:59:08 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Mo' bettah Cyberdoodads
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Mo' bettah Cyberdoodads
> Date: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 12:46 PM
>
> |> From: Jeremy "Bolthy" Zimmerman
> |> Sent: May 5, 1998 12:14 PM
> |> Subject: Re: Mo' bettah Cyberdoodads
>
> |> If you're into non-SR references, this reminds me that Turner,
> |> in Gibson's
> |> "Count Zero" had "dust covers" for his datajacks, IIRC.
Nothing fancy
or
> |> sophisticated, just a little plug that he put into his jack when
> |> he wasn't
> |> using it to keep ickies from getting in. =)
>
> I am suprised that this was never included in SR [If I err pardon] and
> even CP2020 does not seem to have those. Though I believe that Solo of
> Fortune did. Whatever, this makes so much sense that I would rule [as a
GM]
> that these come automatically with Datajacks.
>
I lump it with the cleaning kits for cyber eyes. The first time you hear
about it is in Cybertechnology. The narrator says that cybereyes come with
cleaning kits and that you really should use them. Do you ever hear about
them elsewhere? Nope. Common sense isn't always a strong factor, I think.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:04:17 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tournament GMing
In-Reply-To: <199805052003.PAA01074@*****.interkan.net> from "Nexx" at
May 5,
98 02:48:54 pm
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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>
> ----------
> > From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
>
> > Or you can grab some matchbox cars, styrofoam cups, some shoeboxes,
> > and lay them out on the carpet and you've got a city block.
>
> We've actually used GI Joes and Legos to fudge when miniatures weren't
> available.
>
Heh..Coins marked with a marker can also work, as do all those non six
sided dice. :)
Missed the earlier postings, but you can also buy some small pieces of
clear plexaglass, draw a grid with removable marker, and its perfect
for drawing out building plans, etc.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 14:05:35 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
In-Reply-To: <199805051910.NAA16694@******.carl.org> from "Erik Jameson"
at
May 5, 98 03:04:41 pm
Content-Type: text
Erik Jameson wrote:
/
/ >Over time most men either get used to it and learn to deal with their
/ >sexuality, or the testosterone level drops off and they don't care.
/ >I learned to deal with it :) Being married also adds to my level of
/ >security <shrug>.
/
/ Married? That explains a lot; you no longer have to prove your
/ masculinity.
Oh, I still have to prove my masculinity, just not to my friends :)
/ Sexuality, in a mature game, can be very potent. It can be a great plot
/ device; what started out as a bar pickup ended up as a marriage engagement
/ for a character of mine.
/
/ But here's the crux of the matter:
/
/ I think most people avoid it because it can quickly degenerate into
/ immaturity quickly. I mean, sex that had THAC0's for example. I had a
/ player recently that while a male, wanted to play a voluptous female that
/ would and could seduce nearly any man. There was a certain titilation for
/ this 18-yr old. Needless to say, neither the PC or the player lasted very
/ long in my game.
Yep. Been there, done that. And I actively tried to argue that it
shouldn't come down to a dice roll. And the funny thing was was that
the GM at the time who reduced it to a dice role was a female. Maybe
she felt that her own personal experiences came down to a dice role
<shrug>.
Anyway, you're right. Sex in RPGs can quickly degenerate.
/ And to be truthful, a role-played seduction doesn't go over very well also,
/ simply because a real seduction takes an extended amount of time, time that
/ could be better spent killing bad guys and making nuyen.
Flirting is a blast to roleplay, if the goal of the GM isn't to get
the PC laid, but to have a good time roleplaying.
There's one PC in my game that is rather innocent and honorable. And
I knew that. So he returns to his hotel room to find a naked woman
waiting in his bed, posed in a come hither manner. Instead of
jumping in he stops and asks her who she is and what she's doing in
his bed. Her answer is that she needed a place to stay and that he
looked nice so she picked the lock to his room. She's willing to
"pay" for a place to sleep for the night. He says she can sleep in
the bed for free and that he'll sleep on the couch, exits, and closes
the bedroom door behind him.
There aren't many men in the world (in her eyes) that would've turned
her down and treated her with respect. Now she's really attracted to
the character and will seek him out and try and seduce him. I expect
the character to respond by putting her off, since he's the type that
would only sleep with a woman he truely loves. It's going to be fun
:)
BTW, she was really waiting in his bed on the behalf of the major
vilian of the adventure to pump the PC for information in a James
Bond kind of way.
-David
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 13:14:26 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Vagabond <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Adventure dates
Content-Type: text/plain
>As I mentioned in another post, my group decided to start a campaign
back
>in 2050, and play the various FASA-published adventures in order (or as
>far as they'll get before A) everyone gets killed or B) it gets dull to
>have so few toys :) To that end I decided to browse through my
collection
>of adventures and look at the dates mentioned in them, in order to
place
>them in chronological order.
Off the top of my head, I noticed you didn't have Eyewitness, one of
the first ones to come out with 2nd ed, IIRC. Pretty good run, too.
-Vagabond
"Under wandering stars I've grown"
________________________________________________________
<nomad74@*******.com> <ICQ 4297972>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:29:55 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Joshua Bell <joshbell@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
In-Reply-To: <199805051506.LAA26931@***1.fac.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Rogan@******.ORG writes:
>> >> Does anyone use the Enchanting skill and talismonger things on a
>> >> regular basis for their characters?
Joshua Bell replied:
>> I use it ocasionally for my mage when he needs money:
>>
>> 1. Simply buy the radicals for Orichalcum and take a month off of
>> shadowrunning.
>>
>> 2. Sell it (probably 4 or 5 units) for 105,600 - 132,000 nuyen. Which
>> can be increased through negotiations. (30% up to 50%)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Moore replied to josh:
>Would you post to a BBS asking for a bank that was willing to allow a
>$300,000 cash withdrawl on short notice in one month?
>
>Of course in a real SR world, you ***WOULD*** get hit the day you finish
>by another runner team intent on stealing the Orichalcum. Anyone that
>buys copper, silver, mercury, and gold radicals is obviously going to
>make Orichalcum shortly after obtaining the materials. I'd pay a
>runner team 50knY to steal 200knY worth of Orichalcum. It's just smart
>business. Orichalcum is untracable, extremely valuable, and easily
>resold.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Geeze, and I thought I was paranoid.
If that is how your GM runs things fine, but it only costs 44,000Y for
the 4 units of radicals (FoF p. 107). This is NOT 300,000Y, and is an
average amount of nuyen for a runner to have (at least for my campaigns,
and it is close to the published average Shadowrun payment <35,000Y>).
Really, if I was in a game like that I would have my buddies hang around
for the last day or two of the month and then have them guard it, for a share
in the selling price of course. (and since the entire team is there the mage
/shaman can use HIS/HER and the Teams Karma pool for additional sucesses.)
This works because if the cycle stops (Even an hour too soon, its worthless).
It is, IMHO a more noble way to make money then some high ticket wetwork and
it works in campaigns if not abused (i.e. only used 1/year for a large
purchase like lifestyles, libraries, etc.)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:31:46 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980505110803.009b3de0@******.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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> adepts cannot parry bullets with katanas in my game, Leonardo da
> Vinci was a human being that Ehran the Scribe knew personally, and
The da Vinci thing was cleaned up in Technobabel, one of the best
parts of the novel, IMHO.
> History doesn't tend to have a direction-- it just keeps going, and
> you react to it. You can see the chain of events fairly well:
> Aztlan leads to Harlequin's Back leads to Dunkelzahn's Secrets leads
> to Blood in the Boardroom, and I like seeing these chains of
> causality. The direction they're taking is obvious: advance time,
However, recently SR has given a linear chain. Election. Portfolio.
Mob War. Corp war. Ho-hum. I much prefered a dynamic world that
had different things happening at once. You can certainly do that
now...but we're getting less of that impression.
> problems; I'm looking forward to an official errata. The SOTA rules
> in the Shadowrun Companion seldom make sense (it gets harder to set
My complaints about SOTA have always been the same...the standard
against which everything is measured, the (meta)human body, does not
change. This is why pistols do lousy damage base...their numbers
have been compensated for because of armor SOTA.
> and Azania and Amazonia, and with all the Japanese megacorps, I'm
> amazed there hasn't been a Japan sourcebook, or one for eastern
> Asia.
FASAMike has directly stated that he sees no need or use for a
Japan sourcebook. While most of us may disagree, that's the way it
is. Me, I plan on putting my requests on all my product cards.
-=SwiftOne=-
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:38:24 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
In-Reply-To: <199805051947.NAA26887@******.carl.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> / At 11:02 AM 5/5/98 -0600, you wrote:
> / >Is that a man or a woman, both, neither? What do you mean you used
> / >to be a man? I only date women that used to be men, they know how to
> / >make love to a man. Etc.
> /
> / For a take on that, read "When Gravity Fails" by George Alec Effinger. :)
>
> Is that the one that takes place on the moon and the character starts
> off as a male and then changes her sex to female, her mom breeds
> dinosaurs, and she owns a house in the "old west"?
Damn that sounds like an old SR character of mine... A transgendered,
starfish cultest, decker with an identity chrisis... After that background
we learned never to use a (i think it was gurps) random background
gererators. :)
From what I know about When Gravity Fails, it is a cyberpunk book set in
some Arab country. But that's about all I know. I use to have a copy of
the computer game a while ago that i got in one of those multipac of games
at the local Kay Bee.
czar
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Czar Eggbert
Ruler, Dark Side of the Moon.
homepage: http://travel.to/czareggbert.empire
mailto: czregbrt@*********.edu
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"I lived my life in a ship in a bottle in a world in a glass jar..."
-Mike Fontaine
"CRACK! SMASH! SHATTER!"
-Helen Stunkard
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:45:24 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Panther <qmilton@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
In-Reply-To: <199805051947.NAA26887@******.carl.org>
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> losthalo wrote:
> /
> / At 11:02 AM 5/5/98 -0600, you wrote:
> / >Is that a man or a woman, both, neither? What do you mean you
> used / >to be a man? I only date women that used to be men, they
> know how to / >make love to a man. Etc. / / For a take on that,
> read "When Gravity Fails" by George Alec Effinger. :)
>
> Is that the one that takes place on the moon and the character
> starts off as a male and then changes her sex to female, her mom
> breeds dinosaurs, and she owns a house in the "old west"?
Nope. Totally different. When Gravity Fails is set in the Middle
East in 2202, and centers around Marid Audran, a PI.
Pantherr
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:45:22 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Panther <qmilton@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
In-Reply-To: <199805051947.NAA26887@******.carl.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> losthalo wrote:
> /
> / At 11:02 AM 5/5/98 -0600, you wrote:
> / >Is that a man or a woman, both, neither? What do you mean you
> used / >to be a man? I only date women that used to be men, they
> know how to / >make love to a man. Etc. / / For a take on that,
> read "When Gravity Fails" by George Alec Effinger. :)
>
> Is that the one that takes place on the moon and the character
> starts off as a male and then changes her sex to female, her mom
> breeds dinosaurs, and she owns a house in the "old west"?
Nope. Totally different. When Gravity Fails is set in the Middle
East in 2202, and centers around Marid Audran, a PI.
Pantherr
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:47:44 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Panther <qmilton@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
In-Reply-To: <199805051947.NAA26887@******.carl.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> losthalo wrote:
> /
> / At 11:02 AM 5/5/98 -0600, you wrote:
> / >Is that a man or a woman, both, neither? What do you mean you
> used / >to be a man? I only date women that used to be men, they
> know how to / >make love to a man. Etc. / / For a take on that,
> read "When Gravity Fails" by George Alec Effinger. :)
>
> Is that the one that takes place on the moon and the character
> starts off as a male and then changes her sex to female, her mom
> breeds dinosaurs, and she owns a house in the "old west"?
Nope. Wrong book totally. When Gravity Fails is set in the Middle
East in 2202, and centers around a PI named Marid Audran.
Pantherr
p.s. Sorry about that last post. stupid me forgot to turn
encryption off :P
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 22:32:05 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Organization: Virtual Poetry
Subject: Re: Sex and the single shadowrunner?
In-Reply-To:
<cÊ%a=GOVMT.CANADA%p=GC+EC%lìNCR_EXCH2-980429191804Z-83957@***.ncr.ec.gc.ca>
On 29 Apr 98 at 15:18, Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote:
(Oh boy, I'm really late with this. But *I* don't want to write all those
tests!)
> >Jett, don't tell me you need a book to incorporate sex in your game!?! ;)
> >Just for the f...erm...hell of it: When we are in the mood, we do combined
> >body/quickness-tests.
>
> Heh - I guess I'd better come clean...er...better make that "admit
> that I've written up rules for sex before". The basic premise was
> a special skill roll (TN 2, defaulting by one dot to Charisma) dealing
> stun damage resisted with Willpower... :-)
ROTFLW!!!
Heck, you know you kinda messed up the samurai's way of living? AFAIK they
used to have sexual intercourse (if that's the word...) before a fight. Now
if it was a really really good f-word, bye your system, they's enter the
fight with a serious stun. Not good don't you thing?
Besides, what's the damage-code based on? Partner's sex-skill (or half
charisma) as powerlevel (modified by a personal...uhm...hornity factor!?)
and a staging of L when charisma is 1 or 2, M when it's 3 or 4, S for 5 and
6 and D for everything above it.
Does that mean Barbie could kill with sex?!
:>
Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx
ICQ: 9293066
A society without religion is like a crazed psychopath without a loaded .45
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R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++ e>+++++(*)
h! r--
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 22:32:05 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Organization: Virtual Poetry
Subject: Re: Sex and the single shadowrunner?
In-Reply-To: <199804291000.MAA04258@*****.xs4all.nl>
On 29 Apr 98 at 12:01, Gurth wrote:
> Jessica Grota said on 20:05/28 Apr 98...
>
> > I'm not going to mess with the FASA rules. Mixed breeds don't exist in
> > the SR world, and that suits me just fine: it keeps it much simpler.
>
> And less open to abuse by munchkins. I think if you create the right blend
> of all four metahuman races, you can end up with nothing but plusses (if
> the GM is stupid enough to allow you, of course :)
Nothing but plusses? Hey, that's called and 'elf'!
....614 mails on RN...BLOCK DELETE! :)
Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx
ICQ: 9293066
A society without religion is like a crazed psychopath without a loaded .45
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 23:06:04 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <830325a6.354f1a71@***.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Ereskanti said on 9:56/ 5 May 98...
> Wow, when I think about it, the storyline in general, I guess I would almost
> have to agree with you. You can almost feel when Mr. Mulhillvil IMO took
> control
SRII says the shift from Fifth to Sixth World was noticable only when
looking back on it. IMHO this is a similar situation: at the time Mike
took over from Carl who had/hadn't taken over from Tom, things changed but
it wasn't apparent at the time. It is now.
> as that was when the (the FASA Universe) started to "clean up" the
> mess(es) left from the previous conTROLLers ( :P). I personally think
> I would have been just fine with "Bug City" remaining for many years
> instead of just a few.
Me too. This is one of the decisions I'm not particularly fond of (and
yes, I'm aware of the fact that as GMs can change anything regarding the
overall storyline they want -- but that's not what this thread is about);
killing Dunkelzahn is another. It may have cleaned up a "mess," as you
put it, and sparked off some interesting storylines, but ultimately it
didn't _feel_ right to me. Perhaps a major part is played by the way I
perceive the SR storyline, as "the books" want you to play it, is shifting
toward good vs. evil (I'm not talking about the Horrors here).
> The "Year of ..." stuff doesn't bother me overall, just the degree of
massive
> change.
And that's what each of these years tends to bring us. The election year
saw Dunkelzahn get killed. The crime year started with O'Malley getting
his head shot off. The corp year has a megacorp going under (I haven't got
the books yet, so I don't know the details). As I was typing this just
now, I suddenly realized somebody big gets taken out of the game world in
each year...
> > Not that I know where it all should go instead... :)
>
> I think FASA is like most of the world...they don't -know- where they are
> really going yet.
That doesn't bother me; I live my life the same way -- although I hope
FASA are doing better than I am :)
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 23:06:05 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: DNA/DOA
In-Reply-To: <74A60C22AB@**.opp.psu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Brett Borger said on 13:55/ 5 May 98...
> Yup. Only shadowrun adventure I've ever seen with a Wondering
> Monster table.
1D6 roll Result
---------------------------------------
1-2 Monster stares in amazement at runner no matter what runner
does (including attacking the monster)
3-4 Drop monster's Intelligence to 1/1
5 Monster will spend a long time thinking about answers to
simple questions
6 Monster is playing with Rubik's Cube when encountered
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 23:06:05 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Tournament GMing
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980505102137.08ef929e@****.fbiz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Erik Jameson said on 13:40/ 5 May 98...
> SR combat, especially when you have 6 or more players, can bog down and
> take a lot of time. Combats of 10 or more people can sometimes take an
> hour or more unless at least on character is a major ass-kicker.
>
> Anyway around this? I don't want alternate combat rules or anything, the
> system works okay as is, but are there any suggestions on how to speed
> combat up? I've pondered this question for years when my brain gets spare
> processing time. Haven't really come up with an answer.
Wing it. In last Friday's game we had a major firefight (that ended up
with half the PCs dead, BTW -- okay, so part of the reason for this fight
was that I got irritated by their bickering, I admit :) Anyway, I decided
straight away that doing this by the book would mean we'd be sitting there
for the next 12 hours for just the combat, so what I did was ask the
players what their characters were going to do, and do away with things
like initative rolls. We only did tests to hit targets and damage
resistance tests (half the time without clear-cut TNs), and in essence
played a sort of semi-diceless SR. It worked, although you have to be
careful to make fair estimates of what everyone can and cannot do, skill-
and attribute-wise.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 23:06:04 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <199805051628.LAA20996@*****.interkan.net>
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Nexx said on 11:13/ 5 May 98...
> I'll be the first to admit that Shadowrun isn't my main game. Too
> difficult to find a group, and not very good at GMing, I just rarely get a
> chance to play. However, I think the line is really suffering from the
> death of the magic-based plots.
Strange... I had the impression that recently magic has been taking on a
bigger role than it did in the past.
> Hell, almost all I play are magic-users of one sort or another. Does
> anyone remember the little slogan you see about Shadowrun in the game
> shop posters? "Where man meets machine in an age of magic".
"Where Man Meets Magic And Machine" it says on the cover of the
first-edition SR rulebook.
> In the games I've played, most have been magic-related. If nothing else,
> having a mage along has helped us get out of scrapes we couldn't have
> pulled off without a huge outlay of firepower and more bodies than we
> really wanted to contemplate A de-emphasization turns this into another
> Rifts, where we buy more books just to see what new toys we've been
> provided with
Unlikely, IMHO. SR has never been a toy-oriented game, especially not in
recent years. After Cybertechnology (almost 3 years old now), hardly any
equipment has been published, except for some vehicle-related things in
Rigger 2. Of course, it's my opinion that SR has way too few neat to own
but mostly useless toys anyway...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 23:06:04 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Non-running sources of income (was Re: Talismongering)
In-Reply-To: <199805051643.LAA21908@*****.interkan.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Nexx said on 11:28/ 5 May 98...
> > > How many people have their characters do work on the side?
>
> I had one character who ran a "free" clinic. While his income from
> running paid his bills, people in the neighborhood would sometimes give
> him stuff for his magical and mundane healing methods.
One of my players had a character who did something similar. He was an
eagle shaman helping the locals in his neighborhood out by giving them
home-brew medicines (herbs, colored water, stuff like that) and asking a
small fee in return.
He recently got killed when the fuel tank of a motorcycle carried in a
trailer he was in exploded :)
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:23:20 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paul Gettle <pgettle@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
In-Reply-To: <199805052005.OAA01272@******.carl.org>
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At 02:05 PM 5/5/98 -0600, David wrote:
>Yep. Been there, done that. And I actively tried to argue that it
>shouldn't come down to a dice roll. And the funny thing was was that
>the GM at the time who reduced it to a dice role was a female. Maybe
>she felt that her own personal experiences came down to a dice role
><shrug>.
There is a valid arguement for allowing some kind of dice roll. There
are just times when the character is skilled in areas the player lacks
in.
I see it as being akin to, say, the Negotiation roll to try to squeeze
more nuyen out of the Johnson. I've seen plenty of players who
couldn't haggle their way out of a paper bag, and there are GMs who
don't feel they should be penalized for that.
One reason there are 'Social Skills' in many RPGs is so that players
can create characters who are either better or worse 'people persons'
than the players themselves. Another reason is the time factor: many
social situations can be quite lengthy, and while role-playing them
out line by line may let players show off their character's
personality, it may also kill the pace of a game.
The best way I've seen of handling this is by using a mix of line by
line role-play and rolling the dice, depending on the importance of
the particular social situation. For social situations that are of
less importance to the storyline, the player might just do a little
roleplay to give the impression of the characters particular aproach.
The GM then detrmines how good of an approach it is, and asigns the
roll's dificulty bassed off of that. For social scenes critical to the
storyline, make them role play it out word for word, making alowences
some if the character is much more socially skilled than the player.
When making the players role-play it out, the GM could award RP karma
if a socially inept player rises to the level of the char he's
playing, or in the opposite case, a charmer of a player holds himself
back because he's playing a boorish oaf of a character.
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-- Paul Gettle (pgettle@********.net)
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:29:00 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jessica Grota <grota@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Non-running sources of income (was Re: Talismongering)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Jeremy "Bolthy" Zimmerman wrote:
> Has anyone else tried to market their skills in non-shadowrunning efforts
> for a few extra nuyen?
Yes indeedy! My centaur character Reit is a security guard on the docks
when he's not running. His boss at the warehouses is also his fixer. My
badger shamaness Faedra was, for a while, a rather upscale prostitute.
Jett doesn't stray far from the shadows, but she's done legitimate
security/bodyguard work as well as the shadier stuff.
Also, another PC in my usual group used her MAJOR savings to start her
own small corp. Which, I think, was later bought out. Ah, well.
--Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:28:58 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jessica Grota <grota@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Tournament GMing
MIME-Version: 1.0
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<snip>
> Pre-generated characters are a much better idea. Otherwise,
> people are going to spend the entire session coming up with the
> characters. You won't even get a chance to think about playing.
<snip>
> Have all the characters done up in advance. Have several copies
> of each, with each set in a separate envelope. You'd be surprised just
> how much time this can save.
Hmm. Note to self: Bring already generated chars to GenCon with me.
Truthfully, I make way more characters than I'd ever really need...
Wow. I am thrilled. A chance to run in a game with the great Bull! My
life is complete. :P
Honestly, though, I'm a bit uncertain about playing at Gencon. (And Yes,
I'm going to do my damndest to get there.) While I've been told that I'm
a pretty decent RPer, I've never played outside of IRC. It's hard to
imagine playing without private message windows and text files all nice
and neat on your desktop. Likewise, I've only GMed on-line. Hmm. This
should be interesting...
--Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:28:56 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jessica Grota <grota@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Brian Moore wrote:
>
> My PC mage tries to keep 2 other PCs around when making Orichalcum. He
> keeps a small stock of the big 4 radicals that he usually makes himself,
> so he doesn't have to buy any. He makes an average of 8 units of
> Orichalcum per attempt (skill 6 & Centering, TN of 2 due to high MR).
> That has a retail value of around 700,000 nY. You can be sure that
> the only people who know what he's doing are the PC bodyguards (who
> usually expect to get foci made from the Orichalcum).
Sounds like a good deal. Feel like hiring a dual-natured, heavily wired
samurai for that? Jett is looking for work and needs a weapon focus...
:)
--Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:37:49 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alex van der Kleut <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Damn books (was Re:Mo' bettah Cyberdoodads)
In-Reply-To: <199805051756.AA80636@*****.scri.fsu.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 01:56 PM 5/5/98 -0500, you wrote:
>a wonderful writer) or Koke. I haven't read TechnoBabel yet, and
>most likely won't get around to it for awhile. So instead I buy and
>read BinB, but am I missing the background from not reading Techno?
>So do I buy the book, read it, and then summarize it for my players
>so they know what's been going on? See what I'm getting at?
>Usually I buy every sourcebook and most modules, but pick and choose
>novels, since some authors are better then others.
>Just my grip perhaps.
I don't think that you miss out. In this case, BinB shows you what happens
on a global scale to the corps, how they affect the world, and what the
runners can do to affect these changes. TechnoBabel tells a side story of
how some of this stuff was actually setup, and what happened in the
background. I know from the story why Lanier sold his shares to the
Corporate Court, but 99.9999999 percent of the world wouldn't.
I used to work at Ford, so I was right there when some decisions were made.
So I might know more about why their stock is doing something, or why
they're not making the Thunderbird right now. But you can still follow
along in the papers and journals to figure out what Ford is doing, and
predict fairly well where they're going. I just happen to have a little
extra background.
Sommers
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 14:36:13 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: DNA/DOA
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----------
> From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: DNA/DOA
> Date: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 3:06 PM
>
> Brett Borger said on 13:55/ 5 May 98...
>
> > Yup. Only shadowrun adventure I've ever seen with a Wondering
> > Monster table.
>
> 1D6 roll Result
> ---------------------------------------
> 1-2 Monster stares in amazement at runner no matter what runner
> does (including attacking the monster)
> 3-4 Drop monster's Intelligence to 1/1
> 5 Monster will spend a long time thinking about answers to
> simple questions
> 6 Monster is playing with Rubik's Cube when encountered
>
And to think, I'd actually refrained from making a snippy comment. =)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 14:40:25 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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>
> FASAMike has directly stated that he sees no need or use for a
> Japan sourcebook. While most of us may disagree, that's the way it
> is. Me, I plan on putting my requests on all my product cards.
>
Having a cyberpunk genre game without Japan sourcebook is like running a
Lovecraft-genre game without an Arkham sourcebook. Sure, you can play the
game without it, but the region is so wrapped up in the genre that it
deserves at least a minimal amount of fleshing out.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 14:41:28 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Non-running sources of income (was Re: Talismongering)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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----------
> From: Jessica Grota <grota@*********.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Non-running sources of income (was Re: Talismongering)
> Date: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 2:29 PM
>
<snip>
> Yes indeedy! My centaur character Reit is a security guard on the docks
> when he's not running. His boss at the warehouses is also his fixer. My
<snip again>
You have a centaur character? What kind of rules you use for that?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:48:17 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MgkellyMP5 <MgkellyMP5@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-05-05 17:45:04 EDT, you write:
<SNIP Talismongering>
<< Sounds like a good deal. Feel like hiring a dual-natured, heavily wired
samurai for that? Jett is looking for work and needs a weapon focus...
:) >>
Jett with a Weapon Focus. Gives me chills....
And quite frankly, I like it ;]
She's already 'Death-on-Two-Legs' in the mundane world....
Mgkelly
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:00:14 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <dhinkley@****host.efn.org>
From: David Hinkley <dhinkley@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: (OT)Gulf war (was: What's on the Trid?)
In-Reply-To: <199805042205.PAA14252@******.it.earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On 4 May 98 at 18:07, Craig J Wilhelm Jr wrote:
> At 10:39 AM On 5/4/98 , David Hinkley wrote:
> >You feel old, I was in 5th grade when Kennedy was shot. In training
> >at Fort Benning when Siagon fell and out of the Army by the Gulf War.
>
> Yup, you're old. ;)
Gee Thanks and to think i am omly 23.............for the second time
David Hinkley
dhinkley@***.org
====================================================
Those who are too intelligent to engage in politics
are punished by being governed by those who are not
--Plato
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:00:14 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <dhinkley@****host.efn.org>
From: David Hinkley <dhinkley@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
In-Reply-To: <000501bd77e4$66a9e120$dc648bcf@****>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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On 5 May 98 at 1:12, Katt Freyson wrote:
> |> From: Shadowrun Discussion On Behalf Of Ereskanti
> |> Sent: May 4, 1998 10:22 PM
> |> Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
>
> |> Okay, that did it...I'm in the Shadow of 30....how old is anyone
> |> else??? I
> |> know I -CAN'T- be the oldest one on the list...
>
> No sir, you are not. I am older than that. 36 to be precise. [Oh
> no! I
> posted, I can't believe they tempted me into posting.]
>
And being 23 for the second time, I belive I have 10 on you.
David Hinkley
dhinkley@***.org
====================================================
Those who are too intelligent to engage in politics
are punished by being governed by those who are not
--Plato
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:55:42 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wraith <wraith@************.COM>
Subject: Re: Tournament GMing
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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-----Original Message-----
From: Jessica Grota <grota@*********.COM>
>
>Honestly, though, I'm a bit uncertain about playing at Gencon. (And Yes,
>I'm going to do my damndest to get there.) While I've been told that I'm
>a pretty decent RPer, I've never played outside of IRC. It's hard to
>imagine playing without private message windows and text files all nice
>and neat on your desktop. Likewise, I've only GMed on-line. Hmm. This
>should be interesting...
Hmm, maybe a reason to start using IRC again...AdamJ, is information on
Shadowrun IRC on your website? If not, any hints on where I can get
information for it (might be interesting to watch a run or two...)
Wraith
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:58:44 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
In-Reply-To: <199805052121.SAA03861@*******.scescape.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 05:23 PM 5/5/98 -0400, you wrote:
>There is a valid arguement for allowing some kind of dice roll. There
>are just times when the character is skilled in areas the player lacks
>in.
>I see it as being akin to, say, the Negotiation roll to try to squeeze
>more nuyen out of the Johnson. I've seen plenty of players who
>couldn't haggle their way out of a paper bag, and there are GMs who
>don't feel they should be penalized for that.
Exactly. Not to mention, there is more to being intimidating (for example)
than what one is threatening someone with, and one's tone of voice. Body
language counts for a helluva lot, and most SR games aren't LARP. Even
one's proximity to the 'target' counts, etc... If you're willing to stand
toe-to-toe with the guy, literally, and threaten him you're prolly willing
to actually fight him, certain that you can take him out. And I'm sure a
big part of most etiquette skills is as much body language (who to defer
to, who to threaten a little, etc.) as language.
>One reason there are 'Social Skills' in many RPGs is so that players
>can create characters who are either better or worse 'people persons'
>than the players themselves. Another reason is the time factor: many
>social situations can be quite lengthy, and while role-playing them
>out line by line may let players show off their character's
>personality, it may also kill the pace of a game.
Exactly. Think of your typical novel or play: some things are spelled out,
line by line, others are summarized by narration. RPGs are the same.
>When making the players role-play it out, the GM could award RP karma
>if a socially inept player rises to the level of the char he's
>playing, or in the opposite case, a charmer of a player holds himself
>back because he's playing a boorish oaf of a character.
I personally dislike the RP karma award, since it's... rewarding the
character for something the player should be doing anyway. Roleplaying is,
after all, the point of this game. It doesn't make sense for a character
to gain experience and 'luck' because he is so completely 'himself' that day.
losthalo@********.comwhileyouarelisteningyourwillingattentionismakingyoumore
andmoreintothepersonyouwanttobecome.
"Some things are true whether you believe them or not."
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:07:31 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Tournament GMing
In-Reply-To: <00ea01bd7870$8d75cda0$f61410d1@**********.starkreality.com >
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 16:55 05/05/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>Honestly, though, I'm a bit uncertain about playing at Gencon. (And Yes,
>>I'm going to do my damndest to get there.) While I've been told that I'm
>>a pretty decent RPer, I've never played outside of IRC. It's hard to
>>imagine playing without private message windows and text files all nice
>>and neat on your desktop. Likewise, I've only GMed on-line. Hmm. This
>>should be interesting...
>Hmm, maybe a reason to start using IRC again...AdamJ, is information on
>Shadowrun IRC on your website? If not, any hints on where I can get
>information for it (might be interesting to watch a run or two...)
Yup. http://www.interware.it/users/adamj/irc
The Undernet #Shadowrun section really needs an update, but I'm WAY low on
time lately, which acounts for me being so quiet lately.
-Adam
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:07:09 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <199805052144.OAA32092@*********.cobaltgroup.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 02:40 PM 5/5/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Having a cyberpunk genre game without Japan sourcebook is like running a
>Lovecraft-genre game without an Arkham sourcebook. Sure, you can play the
>game without it, but the region is so wrapped up in the genre that it
>deserves at least a minimal amount of fleshing out.
_Exactly_. There are how many zaibatsus in SR? How many products coming
from Asia? Not to mention all the -Pacific- trade done in Seattle (the
home ground for SR). I think Japan is more important than a Germany
sourcebook, or even a Great Britain sourcebook. Look at the treatment both
the Tirs received... Japan is irrelevant? Hardly. Renraku, Mitsuhama,
Fuchi. The electronics industry. The Yakuza. 'Nuff said.
losthalo@********.comwhileyouarelisteningyourwillingattentionismakingyoumore
andmoreintothepersonyouwanttobecome.
"Some things are true whether you believe them or not."
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:36:37 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, Ereskanti wrote;
>Ideas, Guesses, Flames, Retorts, Commentary, Peanuts, Popcorn???
Albatross!
Well anyway, I didn't agree with the Companion and even had words
with Mike about it on this list but I wouldn't pass judgment on direction
yet. (my gripes were more about the mechanics anyhow) SR3 will definitely
be the foundation for where Shadowrun is heading and until it comes out I
can't say anything.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
"When _I_ use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful
tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."
-Through the Looking Glass
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:46:23 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, losthalo wrote;
>_Exactly_. There are how many zaibatsus in SR? How many products coming
>from Asia? Not to mention all the -Pacific- trade done in Seattle (the
>home ground for SR). I think Japan is more important than a Germany
>sourcebook, or even a Great Britain sourcebook. Look at the treatment both
>the Tirs received... Japan is irrelevant? Hardly. Renraku, Mitsuhama,
>Fuchi. The electronics industry. The Yakuza. 'Nuff said.
Why we won't see many area sourcebooks.
It's simple, FASA painted themselves in a corner with Shadowrun in
that everything happens in your home city. Why would the general player
of Shadowrun buy a book on Japan when all his character's career is going
to be in Seattle? Until FASA changes the direction of how Shadowrun
adventures work (basically to involve traveling) then don't expect to see
anything on other cities unless you look for them on the net.
Keeping things in a Western mind set for magic all these years on
the other hand upsets me. Oh well, next book O' magic ought to have the
Chinese magician (Underworld Sourcebook) and social adepts (BitB) in it
since the lid of that Pandora's Box has just been cracked opened.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed,
briefed, debriefed, or numbered "
-No. 6, The Prisoner
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:58:43 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Joshua Bell <joshbell@**********.COM>
Subject: Fencing vs. Street Index
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Ok chummers, here is a question I have for you:
first let me state the plain rules from the SR rulebook:
1. If you sell to a fence the standard amount of money the runners get
back is 30% list, which can be adjusted through negotiating (minimum of 10%
list, Maximum of 50% list).
2. All items have a Street Index, which is used as a multipiler to the
price. (Though runners still get to negotiate the price a little).
______
My Question is therefore:
Where does the extra money go?
Look at this example... I will leave out negotiations tests to simplify, a
runner team gets 100 rounds of APDS ammo. Instead of keeping it the sell
it to a fence. APDS costs 70Y per 10 rounds and has a street index of 4.
the runners in this case get 210Y and the fence gets 2800Y - 210Y = 2590Y
I know that this is overly simplistic, but I think that you get my drift...
Why would a runner sell to a fence when he can sell the stuff on the street
(or to a fixer) at a much higher profit?
I mean, I KNOW that the fence is taking a risk.. but so are the runners!
what about this:
"Optional" Runners get to multiply an item by its STREET INDEX, then they
start at 30% of that and negotiate!
(Please understand that this is mearly a sugestion and I don't know its
effect on a real game because I just thought it up)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:55:30 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: What is it? Oh,
it's an SR3... why didn't you say so? (was Re: FASA's On/Off
Course?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
> Date: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 3:36 PM
>
> Once upon a time, Ereskanti wrote;
>
> >Ideas, Guesses, Flames, Retorts, Commentary, Peanuts, Popcorn???
>
> Albatross!
>
> Well anyway, I didn't agree with the Companion and even had words
> with Mike about it on this list but I wouldn't pass judgment on direction
> yet. (my gripes were more about the mechanics anyhow) SR3 will definitely
> be the foundation for where Shadowrun is heading and until it comes out I
> can't say anything.
>
Speaking of SR3, I've seen a lot bandied about around here on it, but the
thing I'm wondering is where you find information about it? I didn't see
anything on the FASA site, though I admittedly didn't do _that_ thorough of
a search. Just where do you guys get all the information you have about
it?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:16:57 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
> Date: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 3:46 PM
>
>
> Why we won't see many area sourcebooks.
>
> It's simple, FASA painted themselves in a corner with Shadowrun in
> that everything happens in your home city. Why would the general player
> of Shadowrun buy a book on Japan when all his character's career is going
> to be in Seattle? Until FASA changes the direction of how Shadowrun
> adventures work (basically to involve traveling) then don't expect to see
> anything on other cities unless you look for them on the net.
I suppose you have a point there. With the shift in focus in SR, it does
seem as though area sourcebooks are going the way of the dodo. Now that I
think about it, I can't really think of any area sourcebooks that have come
out since Aztlan, unless you count Cyberpirates. Which has me sorta
bummed, since I really enjoyed the books.
I guess what I would ultimately _love_ to see come out is just a quick
review of what is going on in the rest of the world. Really. I mean, they
give a vague mention of it in the main rules, but that's it. I sorta know
what's going on outside of the continental US. But not really. Unless
they put something in one of the books that came out during my hiatus, all
I know about asia is that Japan is an Empire, the Phillipines are
oppressed, and that's about it. I know Africa's in the cyberpirates book,
but from what I've heard that isn't saying much. I have yet to sit down
and read it. My big moment of joy was finding out there's stuff about the
carib league out. Europe? As far as I know There's England, TNN (the
nashville network?) and Germany. You could maybe construe some stuff if
you were really into the novels, but that's about it. You can maybe get
something from comments made in FoF and PAoE, but not really. Eastern
Europe? Russia? The middle east? I have no fraggin' clue.
I would be just ecstatic if they put out one big book with a quick summary
of most major governments and what's going on, so that if I'm running a
campaign, and my players decide to skip off to, of all places Italy or
something, I won't have to either contrive something off the top of my head
despite the fact I know squat about Italy, or else end the session, dig out
my copy of Black Madonna, and try and get a feel for Italy from a rereading
of that. White Wolf's done it twice, with one of them being what I
consider to be pretty successful. I should think it would be a fairly
simple thing to do for FASA.
*pant* *pant*
Wow, dunno what just came over me. =)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 19:22:36 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: What is it? Oh,
it's an SR3... why didn't you say so? (was Re: FASA's On/Off
Course?)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, Jeremy "Bolthy" Zimmerman wrote;
>Speaking of SR3, I've seen a lot bandied about around here on it, but the
>thing I'm wondering is where you find information about it? I didn't see
>anything on the FASA site, though I admittedly didn't do _that_ thorough of
>a search. Just where do you guys get all the information you have about
>it?
I'm just Illuminated.
B>]#
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 19:21:32 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: What is it? Oh,
it's an SR3... why didn't you say so? (was Re: FASA's On/Off
Course?)
In-Reply-To: <199805052259.PAA11755@*********.cobaltgroup.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:55 PM 5/5/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Speaking of SR3, I've seen a lot bandied about around here on it, but the
>thing I'm wondering is where you find information about it? I didn't see
>anything on the FASA site, though I admittedly didn't do _that_ thorough of
>a search. Just where do you guys get all the information you have about
>it?
Well, some of us have inside information. Some of us just make
crack-addled guesses/accusations. Some of us have been playing the game
and watching FASA for so long that by now we can make some good educated
guesses. Some of us are a combination of those factors.
And no, it's not on the FASA web site. Which, by the way, appears to be on
the verge of a major overhaul. Thinks like direct ordering of products via
credit cards (a boon to people outside the US or a good game store), a
player's registry, and other things. This was posted last Friday (which is
when FASA tends to update their site).
So hopefully the FASA site will begin to be far more functional than it has
been.
Erik J.
"What was that popping sound?"
"A paradigm shifting without a clutch."
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 19:31:25 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, Jeremy "Bolthy" Zimmerman wrote;
<snip>
>*pant* *pant*
>
>Wow, dunno what just came over me. =)
Dr. Frank-N-Furter.
B>P#
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
I swear to tell
the Truth, the partial Truth, or something like the Truth.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:58:38 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980505103734.2ca75da6@****.fbiz.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 13:36 05/05/98 -0400, you wrote:
>economic domination in 1998 than in 1988). And two, combined with SR3 it
>really turns Shadowrun into Mike Mulvihill's baby (which, BTW, I understand
>his wife Sharon is expecting any day now I think)
It was due today.. I haven't heard any news yet, but I assume it will
filter down to one of us real soon after the birth. (Most likely Steve K,
but who knows..)
-Adam
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:00:50 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <199805051833.OAA14561@****.up.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 14:33 05/05/98 +0000, you wrote:
>> Does anyone remember the
>> little slogan you see about Shadowrun in the game shop posters?
>> "Where man meets machine in an age of magic". The way things are
>> going, I wouldn't be surprised if Haley's Comet takes all of the
>> magic with it when it leaves.
HAHAHA!
ROFL! ROFL! ROFL!
I'm going to have to save this post.
(Sorry if it seems like I'm laughing at you here. I'll shut up.)
>If it does, I guarantee right now that I'll stop buying SR stuff and
>keep what I've got. The original premise for SR (IMHO) was a
>cyberpunk game where magic was just beginning to return to the earth.
> The way the game's bg is written, you simply CAN'T get rid of the
>magic and still have it be SR. You can LIMIT it, yes. But if it
>totally gets removed from the game you no longer have SR, you have CP
>2020.
Agreed. But I could quite happily play Shadowrun if magic was never
introduced to it.
>> > >One OFF
>> >
>> > Two with mine.
>> Three..
>Make it four
Add an ON. More coming later.
-Adam
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:03:39 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980505032036.436f41f4@**********.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 15:13 05/05/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>Read my previous post on that (Damn Books)... I think all SR novels
>>basically suck, compared to the fine game they're supposed to represent.
>
>One caveat: 2XS, for me, seemed one of the novels that preserved the level
>of power I like to see. Dirk, when the big, scary stuff started happening,
>was -scared-, he knew it was out of his league. A Colt Manhunter was his
>weapon of choice, and he thought of it as a big fraggin' gun. And I think
>the atmosphere presented was definitely worth the read, I think 2XS is one
>of the SR novels that could have made it as a novel without the FASA
>endorsement as an SR-related product, it was good.
At the risk of starting a novel war, I agree 100% with this. 2XS was a
fabulous Shadowrun novel, and IMnsHO represents the more 'typical'
underground lifestyle and 'shadowrunner'.
Dirk was basically trash, and I loved him for it. He was *real*.
-Adam
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:10:08 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <7740380737@**.opp.psu.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 16:31 05/05/98 EST, you wrote:
>> History doesn't tend to have a direction-- it just keeps going, and
>> you react to it. You can see the chain of events fairly well:
>> Aztlan leads to Harlequin's Back leads to Dunkelzahn's Secrets leads
>> to Blood in the Boardroom, and I like seeing these chains of
>> causality. The direction they're taking is obvious: advance time,
>
>However, recently SR has given a linear chain. Election. Portfolio.
> Mob War. Corp war. Ho-hum. I much prefered a dynamic world that
>had different things happening at once. You can certainly do that
>now...but we're getting less of that impression.
I think the thing FASA has trying to do lately is provide framework, and
let the gamemaster and players provide the dynamics for the individual
campaign.
In some cases it does seem like you a 'pushed' from one link in the chain
to another, but that's our job as gamemasters and roleplayers -- to link
those chains together and provide a fun game.
The best books IMO are the ones that provide the ideas that can spawn many
games, and also IMO we're still getting those books -- Underworld is one of
my favs, and I'm *very* anxiously anticipating Seattle 2.
>> and Azania and Amazonia, and with all the Japanese megacorps, I'm
>> amazed there hasn't been a Japan sourcebook, or one for eastern
>> Asia.
>
>FASAMike has directly stated that he sees no need or use for a
>Japan sourcebook. While most of us may disagree, that's the way it
>is. Me, I plan on putting my requests on all my product cards.
Do you have a direct quote for this? <g> While I personally would find
very little use for a Japan sourcebook, I certainly think there's enough
people that want it to warrant FASA finding a way to fit one into the
schedule and timeline.
-Adam J
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:48:42 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: What is it? Oh,
In-Reply-To: <199805052259.PAA11755@*********.cobaltgroup.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 15:55 05/05/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Speaking of SR3, I've seen a lot bandied about around here on it, but the
>thing I'm wondering is where you find information about it? I didn't see
>anything on the FASA site, though I admittedly didn't do _that_ thorough of
>a search. Just where do you guys get all the information you have about
>it?
You're not cleared for that :)
FASAs site has nothing about it, as far as I know.. they've made several
public announcements about it at cons, and I believe they even tossed the
cover around at a recent industry event. But aside from that, the general
public will probably know very little about it until Gencon when they
release it.
And despite the persistant rumours, it appears to be going on-time sofar..
-Adam J
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:47:28 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: What is it? Oh,
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: What is it? Oh,
> Date: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 4:48 PM
>
> At 15:55 05/05/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
> >Speaking of SR3, I've seen a lot bandied about around here on it, but
the
> >thing I'm wondering is where you find information about it? I didn't
see
> >anything on the FASA site, though I admittedly didn't do _that_ thorough
of
> >a search. Just where do you guys get all the information you have about
> >it?
>
> You're not cleared for that :)
>
I do hope this doesn't mean termination. I'm down to my last clone!
> FASAs site has nothing about it, as far as I know.. they've made several
> public announcements about it at cons, and I believe they even tossed the
> cover around at a recent industry event. But aside from that, the
general
> public will probably know very little about it until Gencon when they
> release it.
>
> And despite the persistant rumours, it appears to be going on-time
sofar..
>
When is Gencon? I remember hearing something about it recently, but I tend
to avoid cons, so I don't pay too much attention to when they come around.
So I don't know if this year's gencon has already gone by, or if it has yet
to come. I suppose this would also answer my question as to, "Does anyone
know what the release date is?" =)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:03:44 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Geoff Skellams <geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU>
Subject: Vehicle Economy (was RE: What is a CF?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
On Shadowrun Discussion, Craig J Wilhelm
Jr[SMTP:craigjwjr@*********.NET] wrote:
> Now the only real problem I have with R2 is economy. I know
the reason
> it's low is to fit with SUX-2000-type-gas-guzzling-grittyness of a
> cyberpunk(-ish) setting. But come on... What if someone wants to make
a
> long range van type thing like my group had with RBB? I really can't
since
> the best economy I can get with a van is 2.37mpg! Oh sure, I could, if
I
> went and gave it a 500 gallon gas tank...(?!?!?) Where would I put it?
I
> guess I could just continue and add economy with the standard formula
and
> ignore maximums. Can anyone think of any problems I might run into if
I did
> this? Besides jacking prices throught the roof that is. :)
I have run into this problem as well. I have a thing for
vehicles with ultra-long ranges (mainly because I keep thinking about
running them unsupported in the Australian outback). For ground vehicles
it's not too difficult to make a vehicle which has a long range. But it
is really hard to make a drone with that sort of range, especially if
you want to put in a military sensor pack.
My current pet project is thinking about high-speed, long range
strategic recon drones (sort of an unmanned SR-71). When I started
playing around with the design rules the other day, you can get a large
UAV with a top of the line military sensor pack to only go at most a
couple of hundred k's.
I'm thinking about using a jet fighter airframe when I have
another go, but removing the crew compartment. If you think this is a
bit munchkinous, you had better go have a word with the USAF. While I
was still working for the Australian DoD last year, I read a paper from
the USAF where they were talking about converting old F16 airframes to
unmanned vehicles, mainly because it was a more cost effective way of
delivering weapons without having to train pilots and then lose them in
combat. It was also more cost effective than cruise missiles, in which
the avionics package is destroyed when the weapon detonates. With an
unmanned fighter, they can use conventional smart weapons and have the
avionics package come home for another mission.
Personally, I think the economy ratings for most powerplants are
way too low. Jon may have been basing things on some of the American
manufacturers, which are not so concerned with economy. But it becomes a
bigger issue out here.
Somehow I doubt I could make my old Hyundai Excel hatchback
using the shadowrun rules. The best trip I ever got out of that baby was
728km off a single 45L tank of petrol (16.167km/L). I could regularly
get 500km+ from a single tank around town, and 600-650km on the freeway.
cheers
Geoff
--
Geoff Skellams R&D - Tower Software
Email Address: geoff.skellams@*********.com.au
Homepage: http://www.towersoft.com.au/staff/geoff/
ICQ Number: 2815165
"That rates about a 9.5 on my weird-shit-o-meter"
- Will Smith in "Men in Black"
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 20:05:28 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Panther <qmilton@**.NET>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980505170050.008f94f0@****.lis.ab.ca>
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> Agreed. But I could quite happily play Shadowrun if magic was never
> introduced to it.
Oh, definitely. But it'd really mess the entire game up to put in
magic and then take it out after having it for a decade
Panther
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Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 20:05:31 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Panther <qmilton@**.NET>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980505170050.008f94f0@****.lis.ab.ca>
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> Agreed. But I could quite happily play Shadowrun if magic was never
> introduced to it.
Oh, definitely. But it'd really mess the entire game up to put in
magic and then take it out after having it for a decade
Panther
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:08:11 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: What is it? Oh,
In-Reply-To: <199805052351.QAA19859@*********.cobaltgroup.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 16:47 05/05/98 -0700, you wrote:
>> You're not cleared for that :)
>
>I do hope this doesn't mean termination. I'm down to my last clone!
Naw. I'm under too much stress lately to execute anyone with proper dignity.
>When is Gencon? I remember hearing something about it recently, but I tend
>to avoid cons, so I don't pay too much attention to when they come around.
>So I don't know if this year's gencon has already gone by, or if it has yet
>to come. I suppose this would also answer my question as to, "Does anyone
>know what the release date is?" =)
August 5-9th, I think. Details and stuff at www.andonunlimited.com
-Adam J
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:04:37 +1200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: Feeling old [was: Re: DNA/DOA]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Quoth Paul Gettle (730 06-05-98 NZT):
>>Wasn't there a book of them? I don't remember the name now... We
>used to
>>have a copy of it somewhere... something like "Sprawl Sites". Seemed
>more
>>like "random adventures" than random encounters, but it had a long
>series
>>of tables.
>
>This, of all things, makes me feel a lot older than the whole 'I was
>in 5th grade during the Gulf War' thread.
>
>I've been generally laughing at the absurdity of the Sprawl Sites book
>since... oh, since when the outfit the decker archtype wears was
>actually in style.
>
>Only the last 20 pages of it were even worth the paper it was printed
>on.
Aw, c'mon, it's not that bad. Okay, so some of the encounters are a
little silly (PCs getting randomly strafed by a pair of Fire elementals?
Yeesh), but the building archetypes are exceedingly useful (especially
for someone who's short of time and/or a little lazy, like Yours Truly).
I agree with you about the contacts and archetypes (though in my copy
they need SR-II updating, and a little common sense - how the heck does
a Street Kid get hold of body-armour like an armoured vest?). And,
*with some work*, some of the encounters *are* useable as such, or short
adventures.
Of course, I may be biased by the fact that Sprawl Sites was the first
SR book I ever bought (after being given a rather tattered BBB gratis).
Sideline: in the SRII GM Screen, there's a bunch of cardboard character
'markers'. Most of them I can figure out, but who are the guys with the
chain-maces and the red-and-white armour? Red Samurai?
Danyel Woods
9604801@********.ac.nz
'Are you deliberately trying to drive me insane?'
'The universe is already mad. Anything else would be
redundant.'
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 20:22:17 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
Subject: Re: (OT)Gulf war (was: What's on the Trid?)
In-Reply-To: <74802B1B85@**.opp.psu.edu>
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|> From: Brett Borger
|> Sent: May 5, 1998 2:47 PM
|> Subject: Re: (OT)Gulf war (was: What's on the Trid?)
|> Ted Kennedy was shot?!?
Just think what a world we'd have if they had killed Ted instead of John
and Robert. [Hey, he's big enough to count for two]
Katt Freyson
ICQ UIN 3337155
Montreal, Canada
http://www.dsuper.net/~katt
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 19:35:06 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980505170339.00913cf0@****.lis.ab.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue, 5 May 1998, Adam J wrote:
> >One caveat: 2XS, for me, seemed one of the novels that preserved the level
> >of power I like to see. Dirk, when the big, scary stuff started happening,
> >was -scared-, he knew it was out of his league. A Colt Manhunter was his
> >weapon of choice, and he thought of it as a big fraggin' gun. And I think
> >the atmosphere presented was definitely worth the read, I think 2XS is one
> >of the SR novels that could have made it as a novel without the FASA
> >endorsement as an SR-related product, it was good.
>
> At the risk of starting a novel war, I agree 100% with this. 2XS was a
> fabulous Shadowrun novel, and IMnsHO represents the more 'typical'
> underground lifestyle and 'shadowrunner'.
>
> Dirk was basically trash, and I loved him for it. He was *real*.
Your right about that one... also another good Runner level novel is
Shadowplay, the only problem I had with it was the fact that a out of the
loop decker was able to deckl the ZO...
Also add Changling (the one with the goblinized kid) and Dead Air to that
list...
-Czar
-Who posts more often now that Shadowland is down
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Czar Eggbert
Ruler, Dark Side of the Moon.
homepage: http://travel.to/czareggbert.empire
mailto: czregbrt@*********.edu
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"I lived my life in a ship in a bottle in a world in a glass jar..."
-Mike Fontaine
"CRACK! SMASH! SHATTER!"
-Helen Stunkard
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 20:41:43 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 5/5/98 10:08:08 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
mooreb@****.FAC.COM writes:
> I can see it now, the "Department of Magical Acquisitions of Aztechnology"
> has a few enchanters making the big 4 radicals. The radicals are sold
> at a discount, supposedly as "excess materials". The department
> maintains a large shadow force for tracking sales and raiding enchanters
> who make Orichalcum. They could also watch out for enchanters making
> high force foci, to steal the designs and almost finished products, so
> the company enchanters can finish them for distribution to Aztechnology
> people.
>
This sounds familiar, we've had stuff like this done to us before, but it was
Renraku in our case. Yep, followed Binder around for about a month or two...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 20:44:12 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 5/5/98 10:19:17 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
wgallas@*****.FR writes:
> >One OFF
>
> Two with mine.
>
> - Cobra.
>
Technically Three, I forgot to count myself here...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:56:20 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Geoff Skellams <geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Tournament GMing
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
On Shadowrun Discussion, Erik Jameson[SMTP:erikj@****.COM] wrote:
> Thanks for the response from everyone, but I want to single out Geoff
> Skellams for special notice. An excellent post not only for Con GMing
but
> also for normal GMing. Thanks for taking some extra time out to write
an
> extended post.
>
You're welcome :) Besides, it gave me a twenty or so minute
break from C++. I'm just glad that years of experience can sometimes be
useful :)
> It sounds like I'll probably be fine; I tend to focus more on story
than
> mechanics anyway. If it's a good idea and makes sense with the PC in
> question, I very often simply allow it to happen or let them roll some
dice
> and unless they roll all 1s and 2s, let it happen.
>
Sounds like a perfectly good way to run things, especially at a
con. If you can dispense with the rules altogether, it's even better. At
cons, I tend to use the system for the background, rather than the
mechanics. I generate the characters &c according to the rules so they
are reasonably balanced, but once play starts, normally I leave them
behind.
> Here's a second question though, and this isn't just for Cons.
>
> SR combat, especially when you have 6 or more players, can bog down
and
> take a lot of time. Combats of 10 or more people can sometimes take
an
> hour or more unless at least on character is a major ass-kicker.
>
> Anyway around this? I don't want alternate combat rules or anything,
the
> system works okay as is, but are there any suggestions on how to speed
> combat up? I've pondered this question for years when my brain gets
spare
> processing time. Haven't really come up with an answer.
The approach I use is to avoid large scale confrontations. The
more people you have involved, the slower (and less real) the situation
is going to be for the players.
As an example, I GMed a run a couple of years back for a group
of friends. It was based on a scenario in the Twilight:2000 "Special
Operations" supplement. The campaign was set in London, but for this
mission, I sent them to Germany (which immediately upset the druid
character in the group).
The characters were given the task of infiltrating a research
facility and hooking a mainframe computer to the Matrix for a couple of
hours. Now, while the group included a decker, I didn't want the players
to do the matrix run. Their job was just to break in, hook it up, wait 2
hours, unhook the mainframe and get out again. All with zero residual
presence, which was the most important part of the whole run.
The characters managed to come up with a decent plan, with the
decker, 2 phys-ads and sorcerous adept entering the compound, while the
druid ran astral overwatch and the rigger kept a watch on the physical
plane. The active group managed to use invisibility cast by the adept to
get past the sec guards in the building and managed to hook the
mainframe up at the correct time.
While they were waiting, a second team of ex-KGB cybergrunts
entered the building on a similar mission. However, *their* brief was to
make it look like an attack of a terrorist organisation. So they offed
the sec-guards and started spraying slogans all over the walls. The
runners in the computer room were starting to sh*t bricks by this stage,
as they couldn't leave and they couldn't go toe-to-toe with the other
party, who were all heavily cybered. So they hid under the false floor
of the computer room.
Meanwhile, the druid on astral overwatch was trying to figure
out a way to stop the enemy sam who had broken into the administrators
house and who was trying to kill the admistrators small daughter. It
ended up with her manifesting as a raven and telling the admin's
bodyguard where the enemy was and allowing him to shoot through the wall
at point blank range (the raven managed to manifest halfway through the
wall, and used her wing to indicate where the sam's head was).
Through some clever use of illusion generated noises and the
like, the main group managed to kill the invaders and get out alive
(including one of the sams jamming his katana through the false floor
and skewering one of the enemy. Most of it was done with roleplaying
though, rather than dice rolling. Some of it may have been a bit
munchkinous, but it made for a good story, so I let them get away with
it.
All of the players really enjoyed that run. The tension levels
were really high and there was a lot of roleplaying on everyone's part.
I guess the point I am trying to make at this point is try to
create situations where the player's aren't going to get into a shootout
with some enemy force. It's much better to get them into a situation
where they are going to have to be really clever to get out alive and
getting into a shooting match doesn't count as clever. The added bonus
with this sort of appraoch is that it really increases the roleplaying
potential of a given game.
hope this helps as well
Geoff
--
Geoff Skellams R&D - Tower Software
Email Address: geoff.skellams@*********.com.au
Homepage: http://www.towersoft.com.au/staff/geoff/
ICQ Number: 2815165
"That rates about a 9.5 on my weird-shit-o-meter"
- Will Smith in "Men in Black"
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 20:57:23 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 5/5/98 12:46:38 PM US Eastern Standard Time, erikj@****.COM
writes:
> >Ideas, Guesses, Flames, Retorts, Commentary, Peanuts, Popcorn???
>
> Okay, commentary, retorts and salted peanuts still in the shell, like the
> sort that are mandatory to buy whenever you go to a baseball game.
>
> Erik J.
>
"Okay, thank you Mr. Erik J, that'll be 25 nyen sir..." (not letting go of the
drink(s), but lettting you open the salted peanuts ...)
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 21:12:40 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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On Tuesday, May 05, 1998 8:35 PM, Czar Eggbert[SMTP:czregbrt@*********.EDU] wrote:
> Your right about that one... also another good Runner level novel is
> Shadowplay, the only problem I had with it was the fact that a out of the
> loop decker was able to deckl the ZO...
They let her in... (At least according to some shadowtalk in Corp SF)
--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 21:32:19 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jessica Grota <grota@*********.COM>
Subject: Jett's centaur character...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Jeremy "Bolthy" Zimmerman wrote:
>
> ----------
> > From: Jessica Grota <grota@*********.COM>
> > To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> > Subject: Re: Non-running sources of income (was Re: Talismongering)
> > Date: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 2:29 PM
> >
> <snip>
> > Yes indeedy! My centaur character Reit is a security guard on the docks
> > when he's not running. His boss at the warehouses is also his fixer. My
> <snip again>
>
> You have a centaur character? What kind of rules you use for that?
I drew up some rules based loosely on a combination of troll stats,
horse stats from the critter table in BBB, and a little bit of the
centaur critter in PAE. However, my centaur archetype is less powerful
and more game friendly than the PAE centaur. And, of course, the PC
centaurs are fully sentient and have the heads and torsoes of humans,
not horses. Reit is comparable to just about any average troll, with a
couple of automatic flaws and edges. Most of the difference is in the
RP, which is a lot of fun. :)
--Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 21:25:42 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Fencing vs. Street Index
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980505185843.00687a24@***.mindspring.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:58 PM 5/5/98 -0400, you wrote:
>My Question is therefore:
>
>Where does the extra money go?
Discount to the buyer for hot merchandise, and the fence's profit for
handling such illegal stuff.
>Look at this example... I will leave out negotiations tests to simplify, a
>runner team gets 100 rounds of APDS ammo. Instead of keeping it the sell
>it to a fence. APDS costs 70Y per 10 rounds and has a street index of 4.
>the runners in this case get 210Y and the fence gets 2800Y - 210Y = 2590Y
>
>I know that this is overly simplistic, but I think that you get my drift...
>Why would a runner sell to a fence when he can sell the stuff on the street
>(or to a fixer) at a much higher profit?
A Fixer should take a similar chunk, because they are essentially fences
(among other things). On the street? You run all the risks that the fence
does in looking for buyers, including having someone snitch to the Star, or
falling into a sting operation.
>I mean, I KNOW that the fence is taking a risk.. but so are the runners!
>what about this:
>"Optional" Runners get to multiply an item by its STREET INDEX, then they
>start at 30% of that and negotiate!
Well, I do agree that street index should affect the base price, if that's
where you're selling it. If something's worth three times as much on the
street, then if you're selling it to a Fixer starting with the base price
as 3x the list price for negotiating with him makes sense to me.
losthalo@********.comwhileyouarelisteningyourwillingattentionismakingyoumore
andmoreintothepersonyouwanttobecome.
"Some things are true whether you believe them or not."
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 21:36:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jessica Grota <grota@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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MgkellyMP5 wrote:
>
> In a message dated 98-05-05 17:45:04 EDT, you write:
>
> <SNIP Talismongering>
>
> << Sounds like a good deal. Feel like hiring a dual-natured, heavily wired
> samurai for that? Jett is looking for work and needs a weapon focus...
> :) >>
>
> Jett with a Weapon Focus. Gives me chills....
>
> And quite frankly, I like it ;]
>
> She's already 'Death-on-Two-Legs' in the mundane world....
>
> Mgkelly
Oh, yeah. Jett is perfect for bodyguard work. She can take on astral OR
mundane bad guys without missing a beat. Of course, she's got that
ever-present "Ground your HellBlast Here" sign on her back...but hey,
that's a fair trade.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 21:31:53 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Feeling old [was: Re: DNA/DOA]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, Danyel N Woods wrote;
>Sideline: in the SRII GM Screen, there's a bunch of cardboard character
>'markers'. Most of them I can figure out, but who are the guys with the
>chain-maces and the red-and-white armour? Red Samurai?
Combat Bikers possibly? I know the cardboard figures were originally out
of DMZ but It's been a long time since I've done anything with that
except for it's maps.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 01:46:54 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Harleys and Pumpguns
In-Reply-To: <199805050929.LAA15942@*****.xs4all.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <199805050929.LAA15942@*****.xs4all.nl>, Gurth
<gurth@******.NL> waffled & burbled about Harleys and Pumpguns
>Fred Stoessel said on 11:35/ 4 May 98...
>
>> Hoi. I just read the last entry and now have question concerning bikes.
>> A player in my party is driving a harley scorpion. Now he wants to
>> transport his deck or his assault shotgun under the seat. Is this
>> possible?
>
>IMHO a cyberdeck could fit under a motorcycle seat, if there's a
>reasonable storage space there (like when it says "1 CF underseat" in the
>RBB), after all it's about the size of a modern keyboard. I'd say no to a
>shotgun; a small SMG could fit, but larger ones would be difficult I
>think, let alone rifle-sized weapons.
The primary problem with under seat storage on a bike is that this tends
to be where some rather important components hide. Such as air filter,
carburettors, battery, electrics, fuse box, and other rather essential
items. Part of the fuel tank also feeds down under the front of the
seat and secures to the frame on the majority of bikes. On top of this
there's normally a taped and clamped wiring loom to contend with and
this is a fairly chunky piece of wrapped cabling. Plus breather tubes
for the battery and fuel tank. Bike storage is usually reserved for
panniers and tank bags. It is possible to get a disassembled smg into
the boot compartment (under tail fairing) of some bikes, but this is
usually an essential storage area for spare fuses, wiring, tools, wet
gear, grease, oil and the myriad of other components that help bikes
continue running.
This is from personal experience as rider of some 17 years now, and
although storage is better on the newer bikes, it is still savagely
limited.
IMO of course.
--
Avenger
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 01:41:08 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Harleys and Pumpguns
In-Reply-To: <354EA9C3.342A@*********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <354EA9C3.342A@*********.com>, Jessica Grota
<grota@*********.COM> waffled & burbled about Harleys and Pumpguns
>The Vagabond wrote:
>>
>> [snip can I put my assault shotgun or deck under by Harley's seat?]
><snip>
>> By R2's standards, I would say he could fit a deck under there OR a
>> Remington Roomsweeper(or some other kind of *very* sawed-off shotgun),
>> but not an *assault* Shotgun.
>
>Hmm. I've seen motorcycles with the trunk BEHIND the seat as well as
>under. I think a cyberdeck would fit easily, and probably a bundle of
>clothing, etc, maybe a sawed-off. A harley is generally a big friggin'
>bike...Of course, that's just going by what I know. I don't have RBB OR
>the RBB2.
Just to add my two P worth. I own a motorcycle, though it's a Jap
tourer, not something as impressively /huge/ as a Harley. I could, at a
stretch get a sawn off behind the front panel fairing on the bike and
still have it accessible. a cyberdeck, not a chance. Underseat storage
is at a minimum. The bike has a small boot where I can get waterproofs,
tool kit and torch, small bucket between air filter and battery for
spanners, oil and cloths. That's it.
Now from the Harleys I've seen here where I live, and elsewhere. Most
of them are pretty open bikes. Built for the retro feel of wind through
the body and flies in the teeth. The seat, though large, is sprung
(AFAIK) and raised from the frame - no hidey holes there.
There are variations on the theme, such as the Electra and what have you
used by the Police, and a few other like the Indian that have their own
saddlebags, but in general it's a big heavy open plan bike. Try a
backpack.
All IMO of course.
--
Avenger
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 19:58:05 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses Publishing
Subject: Re: Fencing vs. Street Index
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>My Question is therefore:
>Where does the extra money go?
Protection, profit, and paying off the original source? I dunno - maybe
it won't jack the price up to three times 'shelf' cost, but I also know
most fixers or fences won't like anyone trying to corner their
business. :)
- Matt
------------------------------------
Ask me tonight why love is strange
For I am drunk and full of reasons....
SRCard list.member.newbie
Teen Poets FAQ: http://pw1.netcom.com/~mbreton/poetry/poetfaq.htm
SRTCG Website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/2189/ccgtop.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 11:54:12 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Geoff Skellams <geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Harleys and Pumpguns
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
On Shadowrun Discussion, Avenger wrote:
> This is from personal experience as rider of some 17 years now, and
> although storage is better on the newer bikes, it is still savagely
> limited.
I was reading an article about motorcycles under 250cc on the
Australian market in the magazine I get from the motoring association I
belong to a while back.
Suzuki has a 250cc bike on the market out here which has a
storage compartment in the place where the fuel tank is on most bikes
(where the fuel tank is on this beast I have no idea). IIRC, this
compartment is big enough to store a crash helmet, or maybe a bag or two
of shopping.
I'd say something like this on a bike would enable a decker to
carry a cyberdeck, or maybe a broken down shotgun (although the barrel
length could be a problem).
cheers
Geoff
--
Geoff Skellams R&D - Tower Software
Email Address: geoff.skellams@*********.com.au
Homepage: http://www.towersoft.com.au/staff/geoff/
ICQ Number: 2815165
"That rates about a 9.5 on my weird-shit-o-meter"
- Will Smith in "Men in Black"
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 21:12:07 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sheldon Rose <scrose@****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Frank Pelletier wrote:
(Rather large snip)
>
>
> > What is -SR- then? (snipped)
>
> Nobody truly knows where SR is headed, except the DLOH. And that's good.
> Imagine is everyone threw in their ideas at FASA, begging them to accept
> THEIR views of SR...
>
> I know for a fact that I personally hate too much magic...I'm more of a
> cyber/matrix/punk type of player... I like it dark and gritty. I also
> know for a fact that someone like Vagabond lamented the departure of the
> "ED-crossover" idea from current SR products.
I was involved a somewhat heated debate on this topic at one point. I
tend to like things mystical with strong tie ins to myth, legend and
magic. If I wanted to play gritty cyberpunk I would be using a different
gameing system. :) Magic is what makes Shadowrun special and IMO a much
enriched game by not being just one of many games in the cyberpunk
gerne.
> But still, we play the same game... That's the beauty of SR, or any other
> RPG... Play like you damn want shall be the whole of the law, or
> something :)
This we can argee on at least... Do I think FASA is off base personally
yes I do I agree with making the IE's not such a big big deal, but that
is the only thing I like about the new direction.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 04:24:25 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <runefo@***.uio.no>
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Organization: The University of Oslo
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <744300f7.354fb25f@***.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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> > >One OFF
> >
> > Two with mine.
> >
> > - Cobra.
> >
> Technically Three, I forgot to count myself here...
>
> -K
Oh, you vote OFF? Damn. I have to vote ON, then. ;)
Everyone (subtract newer members) should know my view on IE's
etcetera. They shouldn't be surprised I think Fasa's ON course...
.. almost. I think I like the explanation they're doing a tabula
rasa, making SR a clean slate for the third edition. I think I'll be
inclined to do the same - start afresh - with that edition. We'll
see, though, won't we?
OT & OL note:
(BTW, Keith, and anyone else for that matter, I think some of Clive
Barker's books are very interesting to read, and is highly suggested.
They have lots of disgusting, weird, or plain STRANGE ideas that
would have a *lot* of potential in Shadowrun. From the disgusting..
the Lix, for instance (possessed human feces) to the bizarre out
through tragic (The servant (free spirit) of a powerful mage is set
free. Asking what it should do, the answer is the careless 'be an
assassin or a whore, I don't care'. The creature limits its choices
to those two exclusively, but is repulsed utterly by both.).).
--
Fade
And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 22:25:12 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: What's on the Trid?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, Katt Freyson wrote;
> BTW, I refuse to get into a debate about posting styles, like last time.
>So, plese don't bother writing to me about that. However, if there are any
>technical difficulties, such as when I was using the TAB character, please
>do let me know.
Ah, the second flame (or flamedrift) I was in was over me not using a
"--" before my .sig I later compromised and did include a breaking line.
I guess I'm saying is don't feel alone, then again being in my company
might be worse. B>]#
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 22:41:57 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Craig J Wilhelm Jr <craigjwjr@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: (OT)Gulf war (was: What's on the Trid?)
In-Reply-To: <199805052152.OAA23347@*****.efn.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On 11:00 AM 5/5/98 , David Hinkley wrote:
>On 4 May 98 at 18:07, Craig J Wilhelm Jr wrote:
>
>> At 10:39 AM On 5/4/98 , David Hinkley wrote:
>> >You feel old, I was in 5th grade when Kennedy was shot. In training
>> >at Fort Benning when Siagon fell and out of the Army by the Gulf War.
>>
>> Yup, you're old. ;)
>
>Gee Thanks and to think i am omly 23.............for the second time
Yeah, just like my Dad turns 27 this year. For the 27th time that is... :D
Craig "Knee Deep in the Blood of Swine" Wilhelm
Afterlife Incorperated,
Quality Carnage at Affordable Prices.
UIN: 1864690
-------------BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
v3.12
GAT/$ d- s+:+ a- C+++ U--- P+ L- E-- W++ N++
o K- w+ O> !M-- !V PS+ PE Y+ PGP++ t--- 5+++
X-- R++ tv b++ DI-- D+(Q2++) G++ e++ h* r y++**
--------------END GEEK CODE BLOCK--------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 22:47:18 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paul Gettle <pgettle@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Jett's centaur character... [PUN ALERT!]
In-Reply-To: <354FBDA3.3F7C@*********.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
At 09:32 PM 5/5/98 -0400, Jett wrote:
>I drew up some rules based loosely on a combination of troll stats,
>horse stats from the critter table in BBB, and a little bit of the
>centaur critter in PAE. However, my centaur archetype is less
powerful
>and more game friendly than the PAE centaur. And, of course, the PC
>centaurs are fully sentient and have the heads and torsoes of humans,
>not horses. Reit is comparable to just about any average troll, with
a
>couple of automatic flaws and edges. Most of the difference is in the
>RP, which is a lot of fun. :)
Just as long as none of my players ever make up an Initiate centaur
magic user, for the sole purpose of being able to crack a 'centuaring
skill' joke.
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Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.3
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--
-- Paul Gettle (pgettle@********.net)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:11455339 (RSA 1024, created 97/08/08)
625A FFF0 76DC A077 D21C 556B BB58 00AA
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 22:46:22 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Radiation and Magic
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, Nexx wrote;
> Its been fairly firmly established that they are related (both
>Almagordo and Hiroshima have pretty good sized background counts).
That is also from the high concentration of death and suffering (see
also Auschwitz). Any serious toxic poisoning of the Earth affects
Background counts. Radiation did have some effect on Bugz but that has
yet to be understood why though.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 22:56:27 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Extreme Essence Reduction
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, Wafflemeisters wrote;
>P.S. Iv'e probaly read the same ED book(s) as Phil, and "depaterning"
>blood magic was indeed very interesting. My impression was, making the
>blood charms a pattern item would not help reduce the damage or risk one
>bit. (Unless the patern magic was used to boost your will roll, of
>course, but other pattern magic could do that as easily)
Yep, it will kill ya. This ain't a "Somethin for nothin and your chicks
for free" game.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
"Say what you mean, and say it mean!"
-Scraping Foetus off the Wheel, Ramrod
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 23:06:28 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: NightStalkers: the World Tour (long)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Once upon a time, Danyel N Woods wrote;
>My GM, being off-line and pretty much isolated from much , would like
>the list's opinion of his current campaign-setting and setup. So, here
>it is:
>
>Many of you know (or should) that in 2044, a group of vampires in New
>Orleans began a series of attacks on public institutions and government
>facilities which lasted for several months. The coven was eventually
>defeated by the formation and operations of an elite counter-paranormal
>force known as the Night Stalkers, who remain(?) operational to this day
>(IIRC).
I just wanted to point out that the background you are referring =
to is from a series of White Wolf articles that were unofficial and =
you shouldn't be upset when Target: Smuggler's Havens comes out and =
it has something different about the Big Easy. If we're lucky there =
won't be too much contradictory material so both sources can be =
integrated together.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><=
><>
"THAT¹S NOT FAIR!"
"You say that so often. I wonder what your basis for comparison is."
-Sarah and Jareth, Labyrinth
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 04:09:20 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Harleys and Pumpguns
In-Reply-To: <01EE95C716A4D01180E50040053AD031283415@*******.towersoft.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <01EE95C716A4D01180E50040053AD031283415@*******.towersoft.com
.au>, Geoff Skellams <geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU> waffled & burbled
about Harleys and Pumpguns
> Suzuki has a 250cc bike on the market out here which has a
>storage compartment in the place where the fuel tank is on most bikes
Not heard of this one.
>(where the fuel tank is on this beast I have no idea).
Well, I think that would be a rather vital piece of information in all
honesty. :)
>IIRC, this
>compartment is big enough to store a crash helmet, or maybe a bag or two
>of shopping.
> I'd say something like this on a bike would enable a decker to
>carry a cyberdeck, or maybe a broken down shotgun (although the barrel
>length could be a problem).
I'd estimate on nearly 20 inches of clear space on either side of the
panel fairing on my bike. That's just a nose fairing not the full kit.
That would hide a sawn off or sidearm quite happily. The panniers on my
bike will hold a crash helmet comfortably and the top box that my wife
uses as an armchair holds two, (45 litre capacity) You'd be amazed how
much kit you can get into those boxes. :)
Looking at some of the inspiration for cyberpunkish cycles, such as
Akira and Bubblegum. There is a possibility for better storage in those
machines. But in most cases things like combat shotguns, rifles etc are
usually carried either in a case on the back of the rider, or in a
scabbard mounted on the frame somewhere. Of course, there's always
Schwartzeneggars solution. Stuff it between the frame and exhaust at
the back. :) Though cooking off rounds or over heating and warping the
barrel might be a problem for longer rides.
Bikes are extremely versatile machines, but for internal storage - the
general rule of thumb is "The bigger the engine - the less the space."
:)
The Honda 250 SuperDream my wife used to ride had more underseat storage
than my bike, which is a 750.
--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk - Shadowtk Newbies Guide & Edgerunners Datastore
http://freespace.virgin.net/pete.sims - Alternative UK Sourcebook (U/C)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 22:16:53 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Andrews <jmandrews@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Fencing vs. Street Index
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980505185843.00687a24@***.mindspring.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue, 5 May 1998, Joshua Bell wrote:
> I know that this is overly simplistic, but I think that you get my drift...
> Why would a runner sell to a fence when he can sell the stuff on the street
> (or to a fixer) at a much higher profit?
>
If my shadowteam wants to go around looking for buyers themselves, I have
no problem with it, but they might. Observe:
* First of all, I think the established fences aren't going to like it.
_When_ they get wind of a freelance group muscling in on their turf, I
think it would be worth a nasty phone call or even a hit on the offending
group. After all, they could be cutting into sales eventually...
* Then, anybody else who has an ear to the ground for the team might be
tipped off. This is especially true for the "hot loot" variety--or, if you
ask me, that APDS ammo that (in my games) is so hard to come by. A corp
will try plenty of funky things to get back at a team that hurt them, from
staging a false meet to tracking a true meet or tracing a call or sending
an astral watchdog after that business card they just left...
* Then, there's always the consideration that fences are good at fencing
because that's what they do. Just because a fence can find somebody to buy
hot stuff doesn't mean the team can--how many contacts has he raked up in
his years of buying and selling and laundering? A good fence doesn't just
go down to a dark alley and set up a card table with cyber prototypes and
hot ammo and guns and info and such. He has his contacts.
So basically what I'm sayiong is this: respect your fence. And if your
players don't, then make 'em suffer. <eGMg>
Jonathan Andrews
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 23:39:57 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Fencing vs. Street Index
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, Joshua Bell wrote;
>what about this:
>
>"Optional" Runners get to multiply an item by its STREET INDEX, then they
>start at 30% of that and negotiate!
That would actually be proper. I have to admit I never dealt with
selling hot goods after runs so I never has to think about street values
and such. My runners were "above" those types of petty crimes or they had
other concerns to say the least.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 21:55:19 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Feeling old [was: Re: DNA/DOA]
In-Reply-To: <199805060133.VAA24060@******.mindspring.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 21:31 05/05/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>Sideline: in the SRII GM Screen, there's a bunch of cardboard character
>>'markers'. Most of them I can figure out, but who are the guys with the
>>chain-maces and the red-and-white armour? Red Samurai?
>
>Combat Bikers possibly? I know the cardboard figures were originally out
>of DMZ but It's been a long time since I've done anything with that
>except for it's maps.
I think the figures that came in DMZ are different than the ones in the SR2
GM screen. I've only seen the inside of DMZ once, and that was only for a
brief moment, but IIRC the DMZ stand-ups are brighter and have less detail.
-Adam J
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 23:05:55 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wraith <wraith@************.COM>
Subject: Re: Radiation and Magic
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
-----Original Message-----
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
>Once upon a time, Nexx wrote;
>
>> Its been fairly firmly established that they are related (both
>>Almagordo and Hiroshima have pretty good sized background counts).
>
> That is also from the high concentration of death and suffering (see
>also Auschwitz). Any serious toxic poisoning of the Earth affects
>Background counts. Radiation did have some effect on Bugz but that has
>yet to be understood why though.
>
(slight spoiler to Burning Bright)
Not to mention that in Burning Bright, the ward sealed in the radiation from
the explosion....
Wraith
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 00:15:14 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
Subject: Re: (OT)Gulf war (was: What's on the Trid?)
In-Reply-To: <199805052152.OAA23347@*****.efn.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|> Gee Thanks and to think i am omly 23.............for the second time
Ah, I'm only 18 base 28 that is. <grin> or 3 dozen years old.
Katt Freyson
ICQ UIN 3337155
Montreal, Canada
http://www.dsuper.net/~katt
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 00:15:18 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
Subject: (OT--WAY OT) Age
In-Reply-To: <199805060239.TAA29813@******.it.earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|> -----Original Message-----
|> From: Craig J Wilhelm Jr
|> Sent: May 5, 1998 10:42 PM
|> Subject: Re: (OT)Gulf war (was: What's on the Trid?)
|> >
|> >Gee Thanks and to think i am omly 23.............for the second time
|>
|> Yeah, just like my Dad turns 27 this year. For the 27th
|> time that is... :D
Actually, I believe David meant, that after he turned 23 the first time, he
restarted to count. That is, the next year he was 1, then 2 and so on, so
that now he has turned 23 a second time. Using that system and your
statement would make your dad 729 years old. <grin>
What you meant, I assume, is that the year after your dad turned 27, her
turned 27 again, and did that for the next 26 years, right? Making him 54.
A friend of mine used the expression, "I'm 18, with 5 years of
experience."
Katt Freyson
ICQ UIN 3337155
Montreal, Canada
http://www.dsuper.net/~katt
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 16:08:15 +1200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: Feeling old [was: Re: DNA/DOA]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Quoth MC23 (1332 06-05-98 NZT):
>>Sideline: in the SRII GM Screen, there's a bunch of cardboard
character
>>'markers'. Most of them I can figure out, but who are the guys with
the
>>chain-maces and the red-and-white armour? Red Samurai?
>
>Combat Bikers possibly? I know the cardboard figures were originally
out
>of DMZ but It's been a long time since I've done anything with that
>except for it's maps.
That one never occurred to me. But then again, the armour looks a
little bulky and heavy for CB - and why would there be *four* CB
'figures' in the set? It's more likely they're some sort of security
goon (like the four Lone Star cut-outs that're there).
Danyel Woods
9604801@********.ac.nz
'Are you deliberately trying to drive me insane?'
'The universe is already mad. Anything else would be
redundant.'
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 00:30:12 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jessica Grota <grota@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Jett's centaur character... [PUN ALERT!]
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Paul Gettle wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> At 09:32 PM 5/5/98 -0400, Jett wrote:
> >I drew up some rules based loosely on a combination of troll stats,
> >horse stats from the critter table in BBB, and a little bit of the
> >centaur critter in PAE. However, my centaur archetype is less
> powerful
> >and more game friendly than the PAE centaur. And, of course, the PC
> >centaurs are fully sentient and have the heads and torsoes of humans,
> >not horses. Reit is comparable to just about any average troll, with
> a
> >couple of automatic flaws and edges. Most of the difference is in the
> >RP, which is a lot of fun. :)
>
> Just as long as none of my players ever make up an Initiate centaur
> magic user, for the sole purpose of being able to crack a 'centuaring
> skill' joke.
Hehe. I dunno...wherever Reit goes, he's the "centaur" of attention...;)
--Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 22:48:08 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Jett's centaur character... [PUN ALERT!]
In-Reply-To: <354FE754.44DA@*********.com>
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At 00:30 06/05/98 -0400, you wrote:
>> Just as long as none of my players ever make up an Initiate centaur
>> magic user, for the sole purpose of being able to crack a 'centuaring
>> skill' joke.
>
>Hehe. I dunno...wherever Reit goes, he's the "centaur" of attention...;)
*Thwap*
He looks way too much like a porn star. Couldn't he be, more, err..
homely? ;)
-Adam
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 23:02:10 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Karl Low <kwil@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Jett's centaur character... [PUN ALERT!]
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From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
>He looks way too much like a porn star. Couldn't he be, more, err..
>homely? ;)
>
>-Adam
What with this and that sourcebook you're joking about Adam, I'm startin' to
think you need to get into the city more. :)
Karl
"My wand? It's a fetish of mi.. err.. can I rephrase that?"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 01:08:15 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jessica Grota <grota@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Jett's centaur character... [PUN ALERT!]
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Adam J wrote:
>
> At 00:30 06/05/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
> >> Just as long as none of my players ever make up an Initiate centaur
> >> magic user, for the sole purpose of being able to crack a 'centuaring
> >> skill' joke.
> >
> >Hehe. I dunno...wherever Reit goes, he's the "centaur" of
attention...;)
>
> *Thwap*
>
> He looks way too much like a porn star. Couldn't he be, more, err..
> homely? ;)
>
> -Adam
hey! What can I say? A good diet, low pollution, and lots of fresh air
and exercise does a body good! yup yup, they raise 'em big and strong
and healthy, them dragons do!
--Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 22:32:55 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Vagabond <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: What is it? Oh,
it's an SR3... why didn't you say so? (was Re: FASA's On/Off
Course?)
Content-Type: text/plain
>Speaking of SR3, I've seen a lot bandied about around here on it, but
the
>thing I'm wondering is where you find information about it? I didn't
see
>anything on the FASA site, though I admittedly didn't do _that_
thorough of
>a search. Just where do you guys get all the information you have
about
>it?
>
Most of the people you see talking about it(and rubbing our collective
faces in it) are the play testers. To be a play tester you basically
have to kiss a lot of hoop. I'm not sure if it's a requirment that you
brag about it or not. Since not all of them do, I guess it's not. <eg>
-Vagabond
"Under wandering stars I've grown"
________________________________________________________
<nomad74@*******.com> <ICQ 4297972>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:35:08 +1200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: NightStalkers: the World Tour (long)
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Quoth MC23 (1506 06-05-98 NZT):
>>My GM, being off-line and pretty much isolated from much , would like
>>the list's opinion of his current campaign-setting and setup. So,
here
>>it is:
>>
>>Many of you know (or should) that in 2044, a group of vampires in New
>>Orleans began a series of attacks on public institutions and
government
>>facilities which lasted for several months. The coven was eventually
>>defeated by the formation and operations of an elite
counter-paranormal
>>force known as the Night Stalkers, who remain(?) operational to this
day
>>(IIRC).
>
> I just wanted to point out that the background you are referring
to is from a series of White Wolf articles that were >unofficial and you
shouldn't be upset when Target: Smuggler's Havens comes out and it has
something different about >the Big Easy. If we're lucky there won't be
too much contradictory material so both sources can be integrated
together.
No skin off my nose, since I probably won't see T:SH in this neck of the
woods 'til middle-end of next year :-). Besides, I doubt they'll rule
out the *possibility* of such a unit, which is all we need, and the GM's
pretty much thrown canon out the window anyway. More than half the gear
in the campaign is from net.books I've brought to him, and half the
setting was cut out of whole cloth as he went, so... <shrug>
Thanks for the tip, MC. Does anyone have any suggestions as to where I
could lay hold of those White Wolf articles *cheap*? Second-hand or
back-issues acceptable. (Exchange rate plus postage to New Zealand is
murder.)
Danyel Woods
9604801@********.ac.nz
'Are you deliberately trying to drive me insane?'
'The universe is already mad. Anything else would be
redundant.'
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 22:29:28 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: What is it? Oh,it's an SR3... why didn't you say so? (was Re:
FASA's On/OffCourse?)
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> From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
> >Speaking of SR3, I've seen a lot bandied about around here on it, but
the
> >thing I'm wondering is where you find information about it? I didn't
see
> >anything on the FASA site, though I admittedly didn't do _that_ thorough
of
> >a search. Just where do you guys get all the information you have about
> >it?
>
> I'm just Illuminated.
I think i'm going to have to go with crack-addled myself. :)
"Someone turn off MC23 i'm trying to get some sleep!!
Caric
"I do shine my pants!"
-Beavis
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 22:54:42 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Vagabond <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
Content-Type: text/plain
>> Agreed. But I could quite happily play Shadowrun if magic was never
>> introduced to it.
>
>Oh, definitely. But it'd really mess the entire game up to put in
>magic and then take it out after having it for a decade
I can't believe I'm reading this... if you don't like the magic... go
play Cyberpunk. Magic is what made SR what it is.
-Vagabond
"Under wandering stars I've grown"
________________________________________________________
<nomad74@*******.com> <ICQ 4297972>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 00:46:59 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Lander Williams <lander@****.WAVE.CA>
Subject: Re: looking for info
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>>no idea.. never really looked into it. Calgary does have more to it than
>>just
>>agriculture and oil, tho id be hard pressed to give any GOOD examples. :)
>
>Err.. umm.. it does? ;) I know it's going a bit more hi-tech and from
>checking a few places it appears to have plenty of computer jobs available,
>but aside from that I can't think of anything major.
well... uhm. a lota corps are moving there.. uhm.. <grasping at straws> the
movie industry is getting some attention too :)
>And just think -- if there's no agriculture and cattle, the rodeo goes,
>too. Eek! ;)
no more 'worlds most expensive outdoor show'?? too bad..
>>and Rifts), so shamantic mages might do stuff around here. And because its
>>quite out of
>>the way, it could make for decent secure areas for corp research.
>That's a thought.. alot of the areas in southern Alberta have native
>significance, although I imagine a fair amount of that is media bred.
<nods> or native bred, wanting to embaress the feds
>It would certainly make an okay place to do corp research that needs to be
>in sub-zero tempratures for too long each year :)
<g> i suppose that some corps could find some way to use the praries for
testing of new, tougher-breeding crops, or to hide biological and chemical
mistakes as well
>-Adam J
>El Nino makes Alberta nice.
hearhear!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 02:54:24 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 10:33 AM 5/5/98 -0500, Sheldon Rose wrote these timeless words:
>Ereskanti wrote:
>>
>> I am asking the question of exactly what the subject says. Is FASA
drifting
>> on/off course in it's storyline. I am not implementing a Spoiler
Warning of
>> any kind, so just in case anyone may think this is a "sensitive topic",
you
>> have been warned. NO BOOK is sacred in this post.
>
>Some of the folks in this area have had this type of discussion I'll
>share some of what has been discussed with the list.
>
>> There are possibilities that at least some of the IE's may be getting
"removed
>> the game activities".
>
>Well it was getting so you could not swing a dead cat without hitting an
>IE so this might not be a bad idea...
>
>
>> The Horrors are gone (good/bad/indifferent) thanks to a Dragon's Sacrifice.
>
>IMO the Horrors where worth keeping... It looks like they want to get
>more into the tech side of things and move away from the mystical which
>is not the direction I would like to see SR move into...
>
I can say with fair accuracy that the game is NOT moving away from magic.
however, the world threatening plots that can only be stopped by a
copmbined force of IE's, Dragons, and Super Corp Sponsored Runners is
(hopefully) going the way of the dodo... The normal magic stuff (i.e., the
stuff from the Main Book and the Grimmy) is here to stay, though it will
get bit of retouching in SR3.
Toi be honest, I really like the *idea* behind the IE's and the Horrors...
They were even kinda cool way back when. I love the bugs. There's a lot
of stuff I really like. But let's face it, FASA was going through a wierd
time (Not-so-coincedentally enough, just before Mike was brought in) where
everything they did had IE and Horrors stamped all over it. And EVERYONE
was complaining about it. FASA listened, and though it's taken 3+ years to
get the plotline through to the finish, FASA and Mike Mulvhill (With help
froma few others, Jak Koke among the biggest and brightest names:)) have
managed to "clean house" and reset the stage.
One thing that Mike said at last year's Gen Con was that he really wanted
to try and get the focus of the game back on Shadowrunners. And let's face
it, most Shadowrunners aren;t going to leave the streets of Seattle (or
wherever their hometown happens to be. For generic SR, it's Seattle).
hell, they're lucky if they ever make it out of their neighborhood.
<shrug>
WHo knows... With SR3 and the revamps of all the main sourcebooks, we'll
see what comes next for SR... And of course, we'll see who likes it and
whop hates it...
However, I emphatically say that FASA is on course... I don;t like
everything they do, but hey, that's why I've been lobbing material and
proposals at them lately... :] if you don;t like the game, try and
rewrite it, officially :]
See ya!
Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka Chaos, aka a lot of others! :]
The Offical Cuddly Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome and Archive
Answer Ork Decker!
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---- in semi-production now!
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Bond villian."
-- Dennis Miller on HBO
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 02:16:32 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Herbert Wolverson <hfw373s@***.SMSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980505170050.008f94f0@****.lis.ab.ca>
Hello!
> >If it does, I guarantee right now that I'll stop buying SR stuff and
> >keep what I've got. The original premise for SR (IMHO) was a
> >cyberpunk game where magic was just beginning to return to the earth.
> > The way the game's bg is written, you simply CAN'T get rid of the
> >magic and still have it be SR. You can LIMIT it, yes. But if it
> >totally gets removed from the game you no longer have SR, you have CP
> >2020.
>
> Agreed. But I could quite happily play Shadowrun if magic was never
> introduced to it.
Just to be different, I strongly disagree! (Although this isn't an attempt
to start a flame war, promise!). If you take away (or even minimize to a
great extent) the magic in Shadowrun, you don't have a game I'd touch with
a D&Desque 10' pole. I mean, you might as well go and pay CP2020, or any
other cyberpunk type game where guns and mods are god.... even the CP2020
alternate reality stuff seems to have realized how much more interesting
a bit of magic(k) makes things.
I personally think its a great shame that FASA seems to be de-emphasizing
the Enemy. Deemphasizing the immortal elves would also be a mistake, IMV,
but I don't see them going that far. I have run (and written) a great many
games that have involved these two elements (as well as many that haven't),
and I think they both add to the tapestry that is the Shadowrun setting....
remove the components, and the colour fades. Now, I must confess to finding
any game with more than a few minutes combat utterly boring (one thing SR
gets right is quick, lethal combat), so gun-heavy type games never get
my vote. If politics is the main focus, a bit of magic and the intrigue
added by such things as immortal elves, always helps.
Although I do risk creating a World of Darkness type Shadowrun. :-)
Take care,
Bracket.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:19:21 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Geoff Skellams <geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Shadowrun Discussion, Bull[SMTP:chaos@*****.COM] wrote:
> I can say with fair accuracy that the game is NOT moving away from
magic.
> however, the world threatening plots that can only be stopped by a
> copmbined force of IE's, Dragons, and Super Corp Sponsored Runners is
> (hopefully) going the way of the dodo... The normal magic stuff
(i.e., the
> stuff from the Main Book and the Grimmy) is here to stay, though it
will
> get bit of retouching in SR3.
>
Personally, I think the shift in emphasis is trying to put magic
in perspective. According to the Awakenings book I reread chunks of last
night on the bus, there are only about 3-4 million magically active
people worldwide and that includes all the physads. The fixation of the
previous regime on magic related incidents put far too much emphasis on
the metaphysical.
It's like saying that all wars are fought with nuclear weapons.
We have them, but they're really in the background.
I'm not anti-magic. I really like it, it lets you do some really
hoopy stuff. But there is just too much emphasis on it.
> Toi be honest, I really like the *idea* behind the IE's and the
Horrors...
> They were even kinda cool way back when. I love the bugs. There's a
lot
> of stuff I really like. But let's face it, FASA was going through a
wierd
> time (Not-so-coincedentally enough, just before Mike was brought in)
where
> everything they did had IE and Horrors stamped all over it. And
EVERYONE
> was complaining about it. FASA listened, and though it's taken 3+
years to
> get the plotline through to the finish, FASA and Mike Mulvhill (With
help
> froma few others, Jak Koke among the biggest and brightest names:))
have
> managed to "clean house" and reset the stage.
>
I quite like the Horror concept as well (it allows for some
really cool Dark Conspiracy crossovers), but it shouldn't take over the
world. A few incidents here and there are cool, but not a destroy the
world level.
> One thing that Mike said at last year's Gen Con was that he really
wanted
> to try and get the focus of the game back on Shadowrunners. And let's
face
> it, most Shadowrunners aren;t going to leave the streets of Seattle
(or
> wherever their hometown happens to be. For generic SR, it's Seattle).
> hell, they're lucky if they ever make it out of their neighborhood.
>
This is a good thing. In recent years I've become a bit jaded
with Tom Clancy and his "Jack Ryan saves the world again" novels (in
some respects, it's good Ryan is now President, because Clancy can't
make him any more powerful, unless he wants to make Jack Ryan God). With
the main SR campaign emphasis on the world threatening magics &c, most
SR campaigns probably got escalated into the same realm.
Ultimately, by doing this, they theoretically extend the
lifespan of the game. If the horrors had continued, then the world would
have pretty well be stuffed. By effectively wiping them out and making
things more mundane oriented, it gives more scope for things to happen
in the future (because the world won't be destroyed - at least not like
that).
> <shrug>
>
> WHo knows... With SR3 and the revamps of all the main sourcebooks,
we'll
> see what comes next for SR... And of course, we'll see who likes it
and
> whop hates it...
>
> However, I emphatically say that FASA is on course... I don;t like
> everything they do, but hey, that's why I've been lobbing material and
> proposals at them lately... :] if you don;t like the game, try and
> rewrite it, officially :]
I'll agree with that. Perhaps what we are seeing at the moment is the
time when the wind goes out of the sails when a yacht tacks. Give it a
bit of time, the sails gets filled again and the yacht heads off in a
different direction.
I think the Dark Overlords know what they are doing.
cheers
Geoff
--
Geoff Skellams R&D - Tower Software
Email Address: geoff.skellams@*********.com.au
Homepage: http://www.towersoft.com.au/staff/geoff/
ICQ Number: 2815165
"That rates about a 9.5 on my weird-shit-o-meter"
- Will Smith in "Men in Black"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 00:49:24 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <dhinkley@****host.efn.org>
From: David Hinkley <dhinkley@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: Tournament GMing
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980505102137.08ef929e@****.fbiz.com>
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On 5 May 98 at 13:40, Erik Jameson wrote:
[SNIP]
> SR combat, especially when you have 6 or more players, can bog down
> and take a lot of time. Combats of 10 or more people can sometimes
> take an hour or more unless at least on character is a major
> ass-kicker.
>
> Anyway around this? I don't want alternate combat rules or
> anything, the system works okay as is, but are there any suggestions
> on how to speed combat up? I've pondered this question for years
> when my brain gets spare processing time. Haven't really come up
> with an answer.
Having run several large runs at conventions. I have discovered a
couple of things that can speed things up.
1. Do your homework and a bit more... have every encounter iite
maped in advance, all npc's rolled up and recorded on their own
record sheets. Then do a few more just in case.
2. Use a map with figures......This reduces the questions regarding
who can see whom.
3. Run everyone through a small firefight early in the run. This your
chance to train the players in your style. I expect that the players
can roll their own initive dice and figure when they move. I start
with the largest result and then start a count down. If they don't
speak up they miss thier turn. Then I use the count down to push the
game.
4.Learn when to be an A**hole and when not to. Some times it pays to
be unreasonable. The key is not to lose sight of the fundamental
goal..for everyone to have a good time.
5. Remind everyone that there is a time limit helps. But having a run
with an internal time limit works better. then you can push the speed
of play by pushing the time line.
4.
David Hinkley
dhinkley@***.org
====================================================
Those who are too intelligent to engage in politics
are punished by being governed by those who are not
--Plato
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:36:29 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Adventure dates
In-Reply-To: <19980505201426.22604.qmail@*******.com>
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The Vagabond said on 13:14/ 5 May 98...
> Off the top of my head, I noticed you didn't have Eyewitness, one of
> the first ones to come out with 2nd ed, IIRC. Pretty good run, too.
That's right, I don't own Eyewitness so I can't look for a date in the
book. Since you apparently own it, how about checking to see if there's a
date mentioned in it? (Preferably in the newspaper section in the back, if
there is one.)
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:36:30 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Fencing vs. Street Index
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980505185843.00687a24@***.mindspring.com>
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Joshua Bell said on 18:58/ 5 May 98...
> My Question is therefore:
>
> Where does the extra money go?
Into the fixer's pockets. They're in this to make money, and so they buy
stuff at a very low price then sell it on at the going rate (basic
economics, I'd have thought...).
> Look at this example... I will leave out negotiations tests to simplify, a
> runner team gets 100 rounds of APDS ammo. Instead of keeping it the sell
> it to a fence. APDS costs 70Y per 10 rounds and has a street index of 4.
> the runners in this case get 210Y and the fence gets 2800Y - 210Y = 2590Y
It says in SRII that the base rate is 30% of the item's _actual_value_,
not 30% of the list price. There's a big difference there, because what's
the item's actual value? That depends on where you buy and sell stuff, but
most of the time it'll be the price including street index.
> I know that this is overly simplistic, but I think that you get my drift...
You only looked at something that costs more on the street than in a
store. How about fencing an Ares Predator? Cost 450Y, SI 0.5. Using 30% of
the list price as the fixer's payment, you get 135Y for it, and the fixer
sells it on for 225Y. The fixer's profit is only 90Y. Taking street index
into account all along, we get 67.5Y for the runner, 225Y when selling it
on, profit = 157.5Y.
The bottom line is that for the highest profit margin, as a fixer you need
to include the SI for items where SI < 1, and don't add it for items with
SI > 1. However that could lead to unsatisfied customers, IMHO.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:36:29 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Sprawl Sites (was Re: Feeling old)
In-Reply-To: <199805051929.QAA27860@*******.scescape.net>
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Paul Gettle said on 15:29/ 5 May 98...
> I've been generally laughing at the absurdity of the Sprawl Sites book
> since... oh, since when the outfit the decker archtype wears was
> actually in style.
>
> Only the last 20 pages of it were even worth the paper it was printed
> on.
The encounters chapter is the worst bit of Sprawl Sites, definitely. The
maps are okay, though very basic (compare them to those in the
Millennium's End GM Companion... ("What, you want an airport map? Okay."))
and the archetypes and contacts are good to expand the game world, but the
encounters...
Every #*#&%^ time I decide to roll one up it's one that requires too much
preparation or won't fit into the situation the PCs are in. Why are there
no simple encounters of the "Three gangers try to rob the PCs" kind? Maybe
we'll have to write a net.book with encounters like that...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:36:29 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: RP Karma award (was Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks))
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980505060633.267fc282@**********.com>
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losthalo said on 17:58/ 5 May 98...
> I personally dislike the RP karma award, since it's... rewarding the
> character for something the player should be doing anyway. Roleplaying is,
> after all, the point of this game. It doesn't make sense for a character
> to gain experience and 'luck' because he is so completely 'himself' that day.
You can also view it as a point that's awarded normally, but if you feel
the player didn't roleplay well, you don't hand it out -- essentially
punishing the player for not roleplaying, instead of giving a reward for
doing what he or she should be doing anyway.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:36:30 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Feeling old [was: Re: DNA/DOA]
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980505215519.00847440@****.lis.ab.ca>
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Adam J said on 21:55/ 5 May 98...
> I think the figures that came in DMZ are different than the ones in the SR2
> GM screen. I've only seen the inside of DMZ once, and that was only for a
> brief moment, but IIRC the DMZ stand-ups are brighter and have less detail.
*Gurth pulls out his DMZ box and starts comparing the figures*
Many of the GM screen stand-ups are reduced-size versions of normal SR
art, like the archetypes, the big troll with the club and cigarette
lighter (he's in SR1), and so on. The DMZ figures are different because
the coloring is a bit "softer" than those of the GM screen, but the detail
is more or less the same.
As for the harnassed figures with the maces, I have no idea what they're
supposed to represent. Dismounted Combat Bikers sounds like a plausible
explanation...
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:36:31 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Harleys and Pumpguns
In-Reply-To: <jOIrnbA+L7T1EwgQ@*******.demon.co.uk>
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Avenger said on 1:46/ 6 May 98...
[snip what's under a bike's seat]
> This is from personal experience as rider of some 17 years now, and
> although storage is better on the newer bikes, it is still savagely
> limited.
My comment was inspired mainly by the Yamaha 50 cc bike I owned about 5
years ago, which had a small amount of space under the seat. Itwould have
been large enough to put a keyboard (cyberdeck) only if you'd first drove
a steamroller across the keyboard, but since the RBB states there is quite
some underseat storage space I pictured my old bike with more room under
the seat, and decided in that case it should be big enough for a
cyberdeck. YMMV, naturally.
Then there are those scooters ("It looks like you're sitting on a toilet,"
someone I know once said about them :) that often have the room to store a
helmet under the seat and/or in a storage compartment in the front shield.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 14:59:27 +0200
Reply-To: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.net>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: combat takes long was: Re: Tournament GMing
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On Tue, 5 May 1998 13:40:40 -0400, Erik Jameson wrote:
>SR combat, especially when you have 6 or more players, can bog down and
>take a lot of time. Combats of 10 or more people can sometimes take an
>hour or more unless at least on character is a major ass-kicker.
>
>Anyway around this? I don't want alternate combat rules or anything, the
>system works okay as is, but are there any suggestions on how to speed
>combat up? I've pondered this question for years when my brain gets spare
>processing time. Haven't really come up with an answer.
Well, what we do to save some time is simply have every player decide
what he want's to do before you are done with the one before him.
Instead of telling the player what he can see (he is supposed to
observe himself) and then letting him decide and so on he (or she, of
course) just tells the GM "I did that. Rolled that dice, that's my
result" and the GM decides the outcome. Combat is fast and you just
cann#t think long before you act, so why not represent this in game
play?
Quite simple, but also effective.
Of course that assumes that every player knows the rules and pays
attention to game progress before it's his combat phase, and that is
not always the case.
Arno
--
Arno
*********************************************************************
Be careful when replying to this mail - check the address !!!
(And send me a note when you notice that
the reply-to-address points to the list!)
*********************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 09:20:38 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Feeling old [was: Re: DNA/DOA]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, Adam J wrote;
>I think the figures that came in DMZ are different than the ones in the SR2
>GM screen. I've only seen the inside of DMZ once, and that was only for a
>brief moment, but IIRC the DMZ stand-ups are brighter and have less detail.
That's just reproduction quality and printing media there. Of course I
haven't bothered to look at them but I'm pretty sure it's them. If it
matters I can dig them up.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 09:24:34 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: What is it? Oh,
it's an SR3... why didn't you say so? (was Re: FASA's On/Off
Course?)
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Once upon a time, The Vagabond wrote;
> Most of the people you see talking about it(and rubbing our collective
>faces in it) are the play testers. To be a play tester you basically
>have to kiss a lot of hoop. I'm not sure if it's a requirment that you
>brag about it or not. Since not all of them do, I guess it's not. <eg>
Actually Steve Kenson told the list earlier this year they were
going to do it. Everyone on the list at that time knew about it.
Basically it is list common knowledge.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 07:40:54 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: [OT] Gonging GridSec
In-Reply-To: <199805051756.LAA27593@******.carl.org> from "Erik Jameson"
at
May 5, 98 01:37:19 pm
Content-Type: text
Erik Jameson wrote:
/
/ At 08:10 AM 5/5/98 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:
/ >Erik Jameson wrote:
/ >/
/ >[snip: running to GridSec]
/ >/
/ >/ Not from me. I'd rather tease them with Gong Show references.
/ >
/ >Okay, as long as I get to be Jammie Farr ;)
/
/ Well, if your *really* want to be Jamie Farr, I won't be the one to stop you.
/
/ Don't know why anyone would *want* to be Jamie Farr, but hey, far be it
/ from me to tell you what to do.
/
/ ;-)
And my other choices would be...? :) That's right, think about it.
At least I'm not Chuck Barry (aka Adam).
And if those two girls show up with the popsicles I will re-run it
into the ground ;)
-David
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 09:50:37 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Damn books (was Re:Mo' bettah Cyberdoodads)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980505173749.007f9e40@*****.engin.umich.edu> from
"Alex van der Kleut" at May 5, 98 05:37:49 pm
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>
> At 01:56 PM 5/5/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >a wonderful writer) or Koke. I haven't read TechnoBabel yet, and
> >most likely won't get around to it for awhile. So instead I buy and
> >read BinB, but am I missing the background from not reading Techno?
> >So do I buy the book, read it, and then summarize it for my players
> >so they know what's been going on? See what I'm getting at?
> >Usually I buy every sourcebook and most modules, but pick and choose
> >novels, since some authors are better then others.
> >Just my grip perhaps.
>
> I don't think that you miss out. In this case, BinB shows you what happens
> on a global scale to the corps, how they affect the world, and what the
> runners can do to affect these changes. TechnoBabel tells a side story of
> how some of this stuff was actually setup, and what happened in the
> background. I know from the story why Lanier sold his shares to the
> Corporate Court, but 99.9999999 percent of the world wouldn't.
>
> I used to work at Ford, so I was right there when some decisions were made.
> So I might know more about why their stock is doing something, or why
> they're not making the Thunderbird right now. But you can still follow
> along in the papers and journals to figure out what Ford is doing, and
> predict fairly well where they're going. I just happen to have a little
> extra background.
>
Well that's good to hear. From the comments I had seen on the list, I
was starting to wonder. :)
Guess I should get off my butt, and go snag a copy of BinB :)
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 09:58:11 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Sex and the single shadowrunner?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Zixx wrote:
>> Heh - I guess I'd better come clean...er...better make that "admit
>> that I've written up rules for sex before". The basic premise was
>> a special skill roll (TN 2, defaulting by one dot to Charisma) dealing
>> stun damage resisted with Willpower... :-)
>
>ROTFLW!!!
>Heck, you know you kinda messed up the samurai's way of living? AFAIK they
>used to have sexual intercourse (if that's the word...) before a fight. Now
>if it was a really really good f-word, bye your system, they's enter the
>fight with a serious stun. Not good don't you thing?
It's a good time to just lay back and light up. ;-)
>Besides, what's the damage-code based on? Partner's sex-skill (or half
>charisma) as powerlevel (modified by a personal...uhm...hornity factor!?)
>and a staging of L when charisma is 1 or 2, M when it's 3 or 4, S for 5 and
>6 and D for everything above it.
You asked...
Base damage done is (Charisma)L. Every two net successes stage by
one level. The skill used is a special skill, defaulting to Charisma
at +2. Base TN of 2.
I hate to do this, but nothing clarifies a new rule like an example...
Alicia boinks Bob.
Alicia has a Sex skill of 4, a Cha of 5 and a Will of 3.
Bob has no Sex skill, a Cha of 3 and a Will of 5.
Alicia rolls 4 dice looking for 2s, gets 3 successes. She's dealing
5L stun damage to Bob. Bob rolls his dice, gets 2 successes and
Alicia's one net success means Bob takes light stun.
Bob rolls 3 dice looking for 4s, gets 1 success. Alicia rolls 3
dice against 3L stun and gets 2 successes. Alicia ends up with 1
net success - not enough to stage the damage down. Alicia takes
light stun.
>Does that mean Barbie could kill with sex?!
Let's see - you'd need at least 14 net successes... Of course, you'd
have to be pretty brave to get intimate with a panther in the first
place. Having just seen "Cat People" a couple of weeks ago I don't
think I'd want to try... ;-)
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:06:26 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sex and the single shadowrunner?
In-Reply-To:
<cÊ%a=GOVMT.CANADA%p=GC+EC%lìNCR_EXCH2-980506135811Z-96786@***.ncr.ec.gc.ca>
from "Ojaste,James
[NCR]" at May 6, 98 09:58:11 am
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>
> Zixx wrote:
>
> >Besides, what's the damage-code based on? Partner's sex-skill (or half
> >charisma) as powerlevel (modified by a personal...uhm...hornity factor!?)
> >and a staging of L when charisma is 1 or 2, M when it's 3 or 4, S for 5 and
> >6 and D for everything above it.
>
<SNIP Sex Damage example>
>
> >Does that mean Barbie could kill with sex?!
>
> Let's see - you'd need at least 14 net successes... Of course, you'd
> have to be pretty brave to get intimate with a panther in the first
> place. Having just seen "Cat People" a couple of weeks ago I don't
> think I'd want to try... ;-)
>
ROTFLOL!!! Yes, Damage codes for sex. Sometimes I really worry about
the folks on this list. :) As far as Barbie killing with sex, you've
all heard what her measurements would be if she was real correct?
Heck at that point, I think there would be a damage bonus for the
smothering affect. :)
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:34:55 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Vehicle Economy (was RE: What is a CF?)
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Geoff Skellams wrote:
>> Now the only real problem I have with R2 is economy. I know
>the reason
[snip]
> I have run into this problem as well. I have a thing for
>vehicles with ultra-long ranges (mainly because I keep thinking about
>running them unsupported in the Australian outback). For ground vehicles
>it's not too difficult to make a vehicle which has a long range. But it
>is really hard to make a drone with that sort of range, especially if
>you want to put in a military sensor pack.
How about:
Fixed-Wing UAV, Large
Jet Propeller
Improved Economy (+2 km/L)
Increase Fuel Tank Capacity (+800L)
Increased Cargo Space (+23CF)
Load Increase (+120 kg)
Sensors (L6 - low grade military)
Flight range of 860*3 = 2580 km. Not bad...
> My current pet project is thinking about high-speed, long range
>strategic recon drones (sort of an unmanned SR-71). When I started
>playing around with the design rules the other day, you can get a large
>UAV with a top of the line military sensor pack to only go at most a
>couple of hundred k's.
Top of the line? L10 sensors then. Have to drop the Fuel tank
capacity to 560L, increase the Load to +220 kg, and that still leaves
you with a range of 560*3 = 1680 km. Again, it should suffice. :-)
[snip]
> Personally, I think the economy ratings for most powerplants are
>way too low. Jon may have been basing things on some of the American
>manufacturers, which are not so concerned with economy. But it becomes a
>bigger issue out here.
Yeah, some of the economies are a bit too greedy, but in general
they're not too bad.
> Somehow I doubt I could make my old Hyundai Excel hatchback
>using the shadowrun rules. The best trip I ever got out of that baby was
>728km off a single 45L tank of petrol (16.167km/L). I could regularly
>get 500km+ from a single tank around town, and 600-650km on the freeway.
Well, it bothers me that in R2, a Commuter/Subcompact has a max
economy of 12km/L while a sedan can go 14km/L... The basic subcompact
can do 480km (40L) and the sedan can do 840km (60L). The subcompact
is in line with your 500km on a 45L tank (540 km), so they're not
that bad...
James Ojaste
The Shop save file for the Spy Drone I listed above:
"Shop v1.2"
"Spy drone"
"Fixed-Wing UAV, Large"
"Jet Propeller"
0,0,0,0,0
40,"Improved Economy"
50,"Increase Fuel Tank Capacity"
10,"Sensors"
22,"Load Increase"
23,"Increased Cargo Space"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 16:50:05 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Sprawl Sites (was Re: Feeling old)
In-Reply-To: <199805061038.MAA15360@*****.xs4all.nl>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> I've been generally laughing at the absurdity of the Sprawl Sites book
>> since... oh, since when the outfit the decker archtype wears was
>> actually in style.
>>
>> Only the last 20 pages of it were even worth the paper it was printed
>> on.
>
>The encounters chapter is the worst bit of Sprawl Sites, definitely. The
>maps are okay, though very basic (compare them to those in the
>Millennium's End GM Companion... ("What, you want an airport map? Okay."))
>and the archetypes and contacts are good to expand the game world, but the
>encounters...
I don't like Sprawl Sites. Archetypes and contacts are almost the sames as
in the SR2 screen, maps are not good (IMO), especially the matrix codes and
the encounters are... Beurrr...
I never heard of this one. What is the detail level of maps ? Do they all
fit in a 205* environment ? Is there anything in addition to maps ?
>Every #*#&%^ time I decide to roll one up it's one that requires too much
>preparation or won't fit into the situation the PCs are in. Why are there
>no simple encounters of the "Three gangers try to rob the PCs" kind? Maybe
>we'll have to write a net.book with encounters like that...
Good idea. We should classify them by locations. The first group would be
the security rating (AAA to Z) and the second the place where it takes
place : Street, Bar, etc.
I'll think about some ideas and will report it.
- Cobra.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 09:58:39 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sheldon Rose <scrose@****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Re: Feeling old [was: Re: DNA/DOA]
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Adam J wrote:
>
> At 21:31 05/05/98 -0400, you wrote:
> >
> >Combat Bikers possibly? I know the cardboard figures were originally out
> >of DMZ but It's been a long time since I've done anything with that
> >except for it's maps.
>
> I think the figures that came in DMZ are different than the ones in the SR2
> GM screen. I've only seen the inside of DMZ once, and that was only for a
> brief moment, but IIRC the DMZ stand-ups are brighter and have less detail.
I like those little cardboard figures. Matter of fact I still use the
ones from DMZ and the maps too.
they are and where wonderful gaming material.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 11:05:08 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Critical Hit revisited
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hello gang!
A couple of weeks ago we were talking about bleeding, and critical
hits. I got to working on this, and tossed around several things.
Most of the ideas I played with complicated things, and increased
greatly the number of dice and bookkeeping. I think I have finally
come up with a system that has a good balance of realism, and
playability, and would love to hear your feedback on it.
You can find it at,
http://www.geocities.com/TimeSquare/Alley/6690/newrules.html .
Thanks, and I look forward to your comments.
--
=================================================================
-DREKHEAD- drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
==================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 11:11:37 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Critical Hit revisited
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Aauuggh! I hate those long Geocities addresses. :)
Sorry, here is the proper URL:
You can REALLY find it at,
http://www.geocities.com/TimeSquare/Alley/6990/newrules.html .
Thanks again.
--
=================================================================
-DREKHEAD- drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
==================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 11:17:42 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Critical Hit revisited
In-Reply-To: <199805061403.KAA31812@****.ctghub.com> from "Drekhead" at
May 6,
98 11:05:08 am
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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>
> Hello gang!
>
> A couple of weeks ago we were talking about bleeding, and critical
> hits. I got to working on this, and tossed around several things.
> Most of the ideas I played with complicated things, and increased
> greatly the number of dice and bookkeeping. I think I have finally
> come up with a system that has a good balance of realism, and
> playability, and would love to hear your feedback on it.
>
> You can find it at,
> http://www.geocities.com/TimeSquare/Alley/6690/newrules.html .
>
> Thanks, and I look forward to your comments.
>
I'm getting Geo's classic page does not exist, when I try the above
URL.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:18:02 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sheldon Rose <scrose@****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: (OT) Kindred in the shadows
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Herbert Wolverson wrote:
>
> I personally think its a great shame that FASA seems to be de-emphasizing
> the Enemy. Deemphasizing the immortal elves would also be a mistake, IMV,
> but I don't see them going that far. I have run (and written) a great many
> games that have involved these two elements (as well as many that haven't),
> and I think they both add to the tapestry that is the Shadowrun setting....
> remove the components, and the colour fades. Now, I must confess to finding
> any game with more than a few minutes combat utterly boring (one thing SR
> gets right is quick, lethal combat), so gun-heavy type games never get
> my vote. If politics is the main focus, a bit of magic and the intrigue
> added by such things as immortal elves, always helps.
>
> Although I do risk creating a World of Darkness type Shadowrun. :-)
Glad I'm not the only one who runs this risk... :) Then again I've seen
folks go to the other extream where they are running the risk of having
a CP2020 type shadowrun :) Which is also one of the strengths of the
system and why it is so popular... I ran magic heavy game and campaign.
We had a good time with the bugs and horrors and nasty major mojo. While
a friend of mine was running the cyber and techno warfare campaign. The
neat thing was it was about 60% the same players where in both games.
Each game every other weekend and we always had fun no matter which way
we played the game...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 08:25:36 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paul Yan <bushidoboy@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Feeling old [was: Re: DNA/DOA]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---Sheldon Rose <scrose@****.COM> wrote:
> Adam J wrote:
> > At 21:31 05/05/98 -0400, you wrote:
> > I think the figures that came in DMZ are
different than the ones in the SR2
> > GM screen. I've only seen the inside of DMZ
once, and that was only for a
> > brief moment, but IIRC the DMZ stand-ups are
brighter and have less detail.
>
> I like those little cardboard figures. Matter
of fact I still use the
> ones from DMZ and the maps too.
> they are and where wonderful gaming material.
>
Those figures are amazingly useful for
facing and positioning. Especially in gauging
fields of fire. Try figuring out the
plausibility of your Sammie gunning down 3
CorpSec guards hiding behind their armored
patrol car. The mind is a fertile place to
reap, but eyes can sow so much better. =)!
===
-Paul H. Yan a.k.a. Bushidoboy@**********.com/
======={=================="
What if there were no hypothetical situations?
-- Andrew Kohlsmith
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 08:23:46 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paul Yan <bushidoboy@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Sprawl Sites (was Re: Feeling old)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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---Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR> wrote:
> >> I've been generally laughing at the
absurdity of the Sprawl Sites book
> >> since... oh, since when the outfit the
decker archtype wears was
> >> actually in style.
Ouch! I remember that too, and now it
gives me the shivers.
> >> Only the last 20 pages of it were even
worth the paper it was printed on.
> >
> >The encounters chapter is the worst bit of
Sprawl Sites, definitely. The
> >maps are okay, though very basic (compare
them to those in the
> >Millennium's End GM Companion... ("What, you
want an airport map? Okay."))
Most maps I have seen have only been
mediocre. MOst games wish to keep their maps
very bland so that the GM's can monkey around as
they wish.
> >and the archetypes and contacts are good to
expand the game world, but the
> >encounters...
>
> I don't like Sprawl Sites. Archetypes and
contacts are almost the sames as
> in the SR2 screen, maps are not good (IMO),
especially the matrix codes and
> the encounters are... Beurrr...
> I never heard of this one. What is the detail
level of maps ? Do they all
> fit in a 205* environment ? Is there anything
in addition to maps ?
>
> >Every #*#&%^ time I decide to roll one up
it's one that requires too much
> >preparation or won't fit into the situation
the PCs are in. Why are there
> >no simple encounters of the "Three gangers
try to rob the PCs" kind? Maybe
> >we'll have to write a net.book with
encounters like that...
A good idea if you dislike the maps and
sites so much is to go to some of your favorite
places and take pictures of them. I did that
once and went to my neighborhood MacDonalds and
used their layout for a restaurant scene in a
game. That challenged the players to use an
environment to their full potential. No
favortism, no easy answers. The challenge is
the fun.
===
-Paul H. Yan a.k.a. Bushidoboy@**********.com/
======={=================="
What if there were no hypothetical situations?
-- Andrew Kohlsmith
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 11:30:27 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Critical Hit revisited
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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Drekhead wrote:
>A couple of weeks ago we were talking about bleeding, and critical
>hits. I got to working on this, and tossed around several things.
>Most of the ideas I played with complicated things, and increased
>greatly the number of dice and bookkeeping. I think I have finally
>come up with a system that has a good balance of realism, and
>playability, and would love to hear your feedback on it.
On table 2, why did you alternate between minor and major like that?
If you roll a 3 with a light wound you will be louder than if you
had a medium? The odds might work out, but it seems counter-intuitive.
I like the spin. :-)
You could end up with some really cool PhysAd fights, but what about
basing it on something like (Power - Body)*45 instead? That way,
it still accounts for mass (sorta), but you can have people spin
around even if they don't take any serious damage... I guess it's
up to the style of game you run.
Overall, cool.
>You can find it at,
>http://www.geocities.com/TimeSquare/Alley/6690/newrules.html .
>
>Thanks, and I look forward to your comments.
Well, I'd suggest not making two non-obvious errors in the URL... ;-)
First, it should be Time*s*Square, and the Second is that it should
be 6*9*90. So the correct URL is:
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/newrules.html
(isn't cut & paste fun? :-)
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 08:23:52 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Vehicle Economy (was RE: What is a CF?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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----------
> From: Geoff Skellams <geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Vehicle Economy (was RE: What is a CF?)
> Date: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 5:03 PM
>
> I have run into this problem as well. I have a thing for
> vehicles with ultra-long ranges (mainly because I keep thinking about
> running them unsupported in the Australian outback). For ground vehicles
> it's not too difficult to make a vehicle which has a long range. But it
> is really hard to make a drone with that sort of range, especially if
> you want to put in a military sensor pack.
> My current pet project is thinking about high-speed, long range
> strategic recon drones (sort of an unmanned SR-71). When I started
> playing around with the design rules the other day, you can get a large
> UAV with a top of the line military sensor pack to only go at most a
> couple of hundred k's.
That's nothing... I wanted a tiny little rotor drone for really simple
snooping about. Those suckers can only go about 50 meters on electric
power.
I'm still trying to figure out where a man-sized or smaller rotor drone
fits 120 liters of fuel.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 11:28:34 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Airwasp <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 5/5/98 3:34:43 PM !!!First Boot!!!, scrose@****.COM writes:
> > The Horrors are gone (good/bad/indifferent) thanks to a Dragon's
Sacrifice.
>
> IMO the Horrors where worth keeping... It looks like they want to get
> more into the tech side of things and move away from the mystical which
> is not the direction I would like to see SR move into...
From what I perceived of the Dragonheart Saga, and as Kenson has pointed out,
is that the way the book ended allowed for individual gm's to decide whether
any rouge horrors (The Enemy) made it through during the confusion of battle).
Mike (who has found out how to do a .sig file, but has yet to make one up)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 11:35:40 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Airwasp <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Surgeons as Riggers?
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In a message dated 5/5/98 5:41:58 PM !!!First Boot!!!, erikj@****.COM writes:
> Rigged surgery makes a lot of sense for SR.
>
> I don't know about remote surgery; that would enable too many nasty
> possibilities like rival riggers "hacking" in and taking over the surgery.
Ooooh, but it makes for one fragging good game ... an SR version of
Innerspace.
> But if the surgeon was physically there, rigged into a surgery drone or
> something, that would likely allow cleaner and quicker surgery.
The rigger-surgeon would probably be in the same room.
One good reason for surgery of this type is that the patient could be laid in
a tank filled with nanites and other stuff. This could then be sealed off,
allowing hospitals to no longer need truly "Clean" operating rooms.
> Just think; a robot doesn't have shaky hands. A robot can always cut as
> straight as is commanded. And a well trained rigger-surgeon could probably
> handle more than just two hands at a time; he could be controlling multiple
> robotic hands and utensils.
Umm, shaky hands in this case is when the rigger-surgeon screws up royally.
And then there is something called a Rig Deck.
> I would, however, require that more than a simple vehicle control rig be
> needed. A building needs a special interface to be controlled by a rigger.
> A surgery drone (or whatever you want to call it) would probably also
> function on some special protocols that would enable maximum utility of the
> system.
I don't see why a special VCR needs to be designed and constructed, as the
corps would want to use what is out there already (no need to go out and
redesign the wheel again).
> I would also think that this sort of surgery would be reserved for
> extremely delicate work, like brain surgery, or perhaps things like surgery
> to correct birth defects in a child while it is still in the womb.
> Probably a fair amount of cyberware implantation, especially those with
> complex neural connections, would or could fall into this style of surgery
> also.
This surgery would not be reserved for special tasks as anything that could
possibly fatten up the bottom line is definitely worth looking into.
> My thoughts on the matter anyway.
Nice thoughts, btw.
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 11:41:16 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Brian Moore <mooreb@****.FAC.COM>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980505162955.006a605c@***.mindspring.com> from
"Joshua Bell" at May 5, 98 04:29:55 pm
Content-Type: text
Joshua Bell <joshbell@**********.COM> said:
> ...
> Joshua Bell replied:
> ...
> Brian Moore replied to josh:
>
> >Would you post to a BBS asking for a bank that was willing to allow a
> >$300,000 cash withdrawl on short notice in one month?
> >
> >Of course in a real SR world, you ***WOULD*** get hit the day you finish
> >by another runner team intent on stealing the Orichalcum. Anyone that
> >buys copper, silver, mercury, and gold radicals is obviously going to
> >make Orichalcum shortly after obtaining the materials. I'd pay a
> >runner team 50knY to steal 200knY worth of Orichalcum. It's just smart
> >business. Orichalcum is untracable, extremely valuable, and easily
> >resold.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Geeze, and I thought I was paranoid.
> If that is how your GM runs things fine, but it only costs 44,000Y for
> the 4 units of radicals (FoF p. 107). This is NOT 300,000Y, and is an
> average amount of nuyen for a runner to have (at least for my campaigns,
> and it is close to the published average Shadowrun payment <35,000Y>).
I was comparing 300knY in cash to the Orichalcum you were making. In other
words, "posting on a BBS that you are looking for a bank willing to allow
a 300knY cash withdraw in around a month" is equivalent to "talking to lots
of talismongers looking to buy the big 4 radicals". In both cases, you are
advertising that you are going to have a lot of cash (or equivalent) in
about a month.
And I'm not nearly as paranoid as the other main GM in my group. He's on
the list, maybe he'll give a few examples of exactly how paranoid he is.
> Really, if I was in a game like that I would have my buddies hang around
> for the last day or two of the month and then have them guard it, for a share
> in the selling price of course. (and since the entire team is there the mage
> /shaman can use HIS/HER and the Teams Karma pool for additional sucesses.)
Exactly what I do, but they usually get foci created from the Orichalcum.
And the other main GM doesn't usually allow using karma for extra dice or
rerolls during Enchanting tests. I consider myself lucky that I can
Center for Success. If he did allow extra dice through Karma, I'd go from
8 units average to 15+. I can see why he doesn't allow it, talk about
abusive.
> This works because if the cycle stops (Even an hour too soon, its worthless).
> It is, IMHO a more noble way to make money then some high ticket wetwork and
> it works in campaigns if not abused (i.e. only used 1/year for a large
> purchase like lifestyles, libraries, etc.)
Actually, if someone steals the whole batch, another enchanter can pick
up where you left off as long as the transfer takes a couple hours or
less.
And yes it is a good way to make money. But there are even more abusive
ways to make money using Enchanting. A decent enchanter can make a Force
3 Power Focus in a week or two, worth around 300knY, or 90knY at 30%
"wholesale price". There really isn't a good way to handle PC enchanters
given how easy it is to create IMHO significantly overpriced foci. IMC,
my mage is the only PC enchanter, and he only makes foci for the members
of his (PC) Initiatory group. He charges for the foci, but usually less
that 25% retail cost and time spent bodyguarding.
--
Brian Moore, mooreb@***.com | I wrote up a nice script to truncate all News&
First Albany Corp. Sysadmin | Mail sigs that are greater than 4 lines long.
standard disclaimers apply | It is still in beta testing due to an off-by-
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 11:52:25 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Critical Hit revisited
In-Reply-To:
<cÊ%a=GOVMT.CANADA%p=GC+EC%lìNCR_EXCH2-980506153027Z-97194@***.ncr.ec.gc.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
On 6 May 98 at 11:30, Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote:
> On table 2, why did you alternate between minor and major like that?
> If you roll a 3 with a light wound you will be louder than if you
> had a medium? The odds might work out, but it seems
> counter-intuitive.
I guess I wanted a more random result. What would be better? Group
them together?
> I like the spin. :-)
> You could end up with some really cool PhysAd fights, but what about
> basing it on something like (Power - Body)*45 instead? That way, it
> still accounts for mass (sorta), but you can have people spin around
> even if they don't take any serious damage... I guess it's up to
> the style of game you run.
Noted. I like that.
> Overall, cool.
Thanks.
> First, it should be Time*s*Square, and the Second is that it should
> be 6*9*90. So the correct URL is:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/newrules.html
Everyone, this is the correct URL. I screwed up twice! (Long day,
and it's only 12...)
> (isn't cut & paste fun? :-)
Yea, I should've used it instead of typing from memory. :)
--
=================================================================
-DREKHEAD- drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
==================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:05:19 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Tskrang Conspiracy (A little long)
<snip: Chupacabras are vampire T'Skrang>
Cute! I like it. I'm not sure I'll use it, but it is internally consistant.
Double-Domed Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:18:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Craig J Wilhelm Jr <craigjwjr@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: (OT--WAY OT) Age
In-Reply-To: <000401bd78a5$94618d40$f48ecdcd@****>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On 12:15 AM 5/6/98 , Katt Freyson wrote:
> What you meant, I assume, is that the year after your dad turned
27, her
>turned 27 again, and did that for the next 26 years, right? Making him 54.
Yeah, that's it. Sheesh. Remind me to not answer mail after 36 hours with
no sleep...
> A friend of mine used the expression, "I'm 18, with 5 years of
experience."
Sounds about right for me, just add another year, and some water: Instant
Craig. :D
Craig "Knee Deep in the Blood of Swine" Wilhelm
Afterlife Incorperated,
Quality Carnage at Affordable Prices.
UIN: 1864690
-------------BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
v3.12
GAT/$ d- s+:+ a- C+++ U--- P+ L- E-- W++ N++
o K- w+ O> !M-- !V PS+ PE Y+ PGP++ t--- 5+++
X-- R++ tv b++ DI-- D+(Q2++) G++ e++ h* r y++**
--------------END GEEK CODE BLOCK--------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:21:06 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Critical Hit revisited
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Drekhead wrote:
>> On table 2, why did you alternate between minor and major like that?
>> If you roll a 3 with a light wound you will be louder than if you
>> had a medium? The odds might work out, but it seems
>> counter-intuitive.
>
>I guess I wanted a more random result. What would be better? Group
>them together?
I'd say so. You haven't yet accounted for things like the Pain
Editor, Trauma Damper, Pain Resistance, Hyper... These could skew
the results in one direction or the other. Breaking a bone and
spinning should be based on actual damage, while clutching and covering
should be based on felt damage. It complicates things a little more,
though.
James Ojaste
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:32:08 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
Subject: Re: RP Karma award (was Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks))
In-Reply-To: <199805061038.MAA15379@*****.xs4all.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|> Subject: RP Karma award (was Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks))
|> > I personally dislike the RP karma award, since it's... rewarding the
|> > character for something the player should be doing anyway.
|> Roleplaying is,
|> > after all, the point of this game. It doesn't make sense for
|> a character
|> > to gain experience and 'luck' because he is so completely
|> 'himself' that day.
Well, I don't see it that way at all, but this is a valid viewepoint I
guess. I see it as a case of rewarding the PLAYER for playing his part
correctly. If you view it as a reward to the player, rather than the
character, then reward for staying in character makes sense. True, as you
say, role-playing is the point of the game, ergo it should be encouraged and
rewarded.
Katt Freyson
ICQ UIN 3337155
Montreal, Canada
http://www.dsuper.net/~katt
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:35:12 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Critical Hit revisited
In-Reply-To:
<cÊ%a=GOVMT.CANADA%p=GC+EC%lìNCR_EXCH2-980506162106Z-97424@***.ncr.ec.gc.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On 6 May 98 at 12:21, Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote:
> Drekhead wrote:
> >> On table 2, why did you alternate between minor and major like that?
> >> If you roll a 3 with a light wound you will be louder than if you
> >> had a medium? The odds might work out, but it seems
> >> counter-intuitive.
> >
> >I guess I wanted a more random result. What would be better? Group
> >them together?
>
> I'd say so. You haven't yet accounted for things like the Pain
> Editor, Trauma Damper, Pain Resistance, Hyper... These could skew
> the results in one direction or the other.
Yeah, this is very preliminary. I guess how ever those things you
list would affect the normal knockdown rules would apply here as
well, and I don't really know how they do.
> Breaking a bone and
> spinning should be based on actual damage, while clutching and
> covering should be based on felt damage. It complicates things a
> little more, though.
Yes. Freak things happen, people react different to situations,
etc., which is why I think a random table is best. I tried being more
specific like you suggest, but I couldn't do it without a hit
location system, and that greatly complicates things.
--
=================================================================
-DREKHEAD- drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
==================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:09:26 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
>I was involved a somewhat heated debate on this topic at one point. I
>tend to like things mystical with strong tie ins to myth, legend and
>magic. If I wanted to play gritty cyberpunk I would be using a
different
>gameing system. :) Magic is what makes Shadowrun special and IMO a much
>enriched game by not being just one of many games in the cyberpunk
>gerne.
>
>
I'm with you, Sheldon; one of the things that attracted my group to the
game was the addition of magic and how FASA tied it all in with myth,
mysticism, and a logical explanation on how the astral, spells and
spirits all tied together and worked as a whole. I tried a CP campaign,
and a pretty punkish Spacemaster campaign, but they were too dark and
serious for those not into the real CP end of things. SR was a great
mesh of near-future punk, magic, and an inclusive background that
brought it all together. I have to say that FASA's support and
receptiveness to consumers and attitude all contributed to that success
as well.
>> But still, we play the same game... That's the beauty of SR, or any
other
>> RPG... Play like you damn want shall be the whole of the law, or
>> something :)
>
>This we can argee on at least... Do I think FASA is off base personally
>yes I do I agree with making the IE's not such a big big deal, but that
>is the only thing I like about the new direction.
>
The most fun we ever had role-playing has been romping through the two
Harley adventures, and I will continue to use the influence of the IE's
for years to come; others can focus on other aspects of the game, and
that is great. It makes the whole much greater that the sum of its
parts, and we all benefit from that.
Tony Rabiola rabiola@**.netcom.com
Fourth and Sixth World Adept
Still working on the Fifth...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:17:47 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
>>> and Azania and Amazonia, and with all the Japanese megacorps, I'm
>>> amazed there hasn't been a Japan sourcebook, or one for eastern
>>> Asia.
>>
>>FASAMike has directly stated that he sees no need or use for a
>>Japan sourcebook. While most of us may disagree, that's the way it
>>is. Me, I plan on putting my requests on all my product cards.
>
>Do you have a direct quote for this? <g> While I personally would find
>very little use for a Japan sourcebook, I certainly think there's
enough
>people that want it to warrant FASA finding a way to fit one into the
>schedule and timeline.
>
I'll second that one; the area is so rich with background and different
types of magic/spirits/atmosphere, it would be a great addition to the
game.
Tony Rabiola rabiola@**.netcom.com
Fourth and Sixth World Adept
Still working on the Fifth...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:33:36 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alexia Silverstein <alexia_silverstein@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex and the single shadowrunner?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
<snip>
>As far as Barbie killing with sex, you've
> all heard what her measurements would be if she was real correct?
> Heck at that point, I think there would be a damage bonus for the
> smothering affect. :)
> Lehlan Decker
<snip>
Smothering, she'd have to make shure she doesn't poke out his eye...
~Alexia
http://www.sova.net/trish/shadowrun/
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 13:42:52 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Brian Moore <mooreb@****.FAC.COM>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
In-Reply-To: <354F821F.7733@*********.com> from "Jessica Grota" at May 5,
98 05:28:56 pm
Content-Type: text
Jessica Grota <grota@*********.COM> said:
> Brian Moore wrote:
> >
> > My PC mage tries to keep 2 other PCs around when making Orichalcum. He
> > keeps a small stock of the big 4 radicals that he usually makes himself,
> > so he doesn't have to buy any. He makes an average of 8 units of
> > Orichalcum per attempt (skill 6 & Centering, TN of 2 due to high MR).
> > That has a retail value of around 700,000 nY. You can be sure that
> > the only people who know what he's doing are the PC bodyguards (who
> > usually expect to get foci made from the Orichalcum).
>
>
> Sounds like a good deal. Feel like hiring a dual-natured, heavily wired
> samurai for that? Jett is looking for work and needs a weapon focus...
Weapon focus? Get in line. My character finally decided he needed one.
So did the other mage. And the PhysAdept wants 2! The last mage chose
a weapon focus during my last enchanting binge, but now he wants a Power
Focus (which is what the rest of us got previously). The Power Focus
will be like the others he's made, Force 3, but the weapon foci will all
be different, and probably Force 4 or 5. My character is trying to figure
out how many months he needs to spend making Orichalcum.
To pay for it, all the other PCs will pay me a ridiculously small amount
of nuyen, bodyguard the entire process (probably upwards of four months
in all!), probably make up the designs (using Magic Theory), and acquire
the raw materials and additional radicals I'll need.
Unfortunately, the enchanting happens in a remote Lodge we use as the HQ
for our Initiatory Group, members only. And my mage has decided that he
will only make foci for members of the Initiatory Group. But if you
happen to be an elf and a Hermetic Mage or PhysAdept, there's always a
chance. We don't advertise (Secrecy stricture on the group), but there
are people who know that my Mage is a good Enchanter.
--
Brian Moore, mooreb@***.com | I wrote up a nice script to truncate all News&
First Albany Corp. Sysadmin | Mail sigs that are greater than 4 lines long.
standard disclaimers apply | It is still in beta testing due to an off-by-
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 13:51:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Critical Hit revisited
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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Drekhead wrote:
>> >> On table 2, why did you alternate between minor and major like that?
>> >> If you roll a 3 with a light wound you will be louder than if you
>> >> had a medium? The odds might work out, but it seems
>> >> counter-intuitive.
>> >
>> >I guess I wanted a more random result. What would be better? Group
>> >them together?
>>
>> I'd say so. You haven't yet accounted for things like the Pain
>> Editor, Trauma Damper, Pain Resistance, Hyper... These could skew
>> the results in one direction or the other.
>
>Yeah, this is very preliminary. I guess how ever those things you
>list would affect the normal knockdown rules would apply here as
>well, and I don't really know how they do.
Well, AFAIK the knockdown rules are intended to mean "physically
losing balance due to the impact", not "Argh! I've been shot!".
I'd say that each of those really only modifies table 2... Pain
Editor means don't roll on T2 at all, Hyper add +x, Pain Resistance
means don't roll if the damage is under your tolerance level. I'm
not sure if TD should affect the roll in the first place...
>> Breaking a bone and
>> spinning should be based on actual damage, while clutching and
>> covering should be based on felt damage. It complicates things a
>> little more, though.
>
>Yes. Freak things happen, people react different to situations,
>etc., which is why I think a random table is best. I tried being more
>specific like you suggest, but I couldn't do it without a hit
>location system, and that greatly complicates things.
Well, just say that T1 is physical damage and T2 is the response
to the pain from the physical damage.
Actually, why not roll on each? Just apply the knockdown to T1,
but roll T2 every time you're hit. It'd take longer, but it would
be more graphic...
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 13:46:35 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sex and the single shadowrunner?
In-Reply-To: <19980506173336.24865.rocketmail@******.yahoomail.com> from
"Alexia Silverstein" at May 6, 98 10:33:36 am
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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>
> <snip>
> >As far as Barbie killing with sex, you've
> > all heard what her measurements would be if she was real correct?
> > Heck at that point, I think there would be a damage bonus for the
> > smothering affect. :)
>
> > Lehlan Decker
> <snip>
>
> Smothering, she'd have to make shure she doesn't poke out his eye...
>
That too. Doe this table take into account if their real or plastic? :)
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 14:03:31 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: DNA/DOA
<snip: What is this? D&D?>
You know, when DNA/DOA first came out, I bought it and thought
"Wow! this is the best adventure I've ever read!", but when I dusted it
off, in order to run it again last year I read it and said "What a piece of
crap!". It took me a while to figure out what happened...
When DNA/DOA came out, the only things I had to judge it against were
TSR modules of the 70s and 80s (yes, I bought modules in the 70s, lets
not do that "age thread" thing :) These were pretty much a map, lists of
the monsters and traps in each room, and a wandering monster table or
two. Compare that to DNA/DOA and the difference hits you like a
thunderbolt: an adventure divided into scenes instead of rooms, a clear
narative flow (too clear, it means leading the PCs around by the nose),
lots of atmosphere, backstabing, political machinations... Remember, the
"Plot synopsis", "Tell it to them straight", etc. and the datafax
handouts
at the end were all, as far as I know, pioneered by this adventure.
It wasn't as worthless as it seems now (although I wouldn't run it today,
it did it first, not did it well).
Double-Domed Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 14:32:56 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
Gurth wrote:
> As I was typing this just now, I suddenly realized somebody big gets
>taken out of the game world in each year...
This reminds me of something JMS wrote about writing Babylon 5: (a
paraphrase) "every once in a while I look around with a gun in my hand
and think-will the story be more interesting without THAT character".
The point he was trying to make is that there is no better way to shake
things up than to remove something people were counting on.
Double-Domed Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 13:07:37 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <199805061844.MAA16543@******.carl.org> from "Mike Elkins"
at May
6, 98 02:32:56 pm
Content-Type: text
Mike Elkins wrote:
/
/ Gurth wrote:
/ > As I was typing this just now, I suddenly realized somebody big gets
/ >taken out of the game world in each year...
/
/ This reminds me of something JMS wrote about writing Babylon 5: (a
/ paraphrase) "every once in a while I look around with a gun in my hand
/ and think-will the story be more interesting without THAT character".
/ The point he was trying to make is that there is no better way to shake
/ things up than to remove something people were counting on.
Hmm... You know, I did that recently in my campaign and didn't even
realize what I was doing when I killed off a Dragon that was boxing
my story line. The players thought they had every thing figured out
until they saw the dragon killed in front of their eyes.
Now I'm rethinking my plan to leave the Bug hive in Denver (moved it
from Chicago for my game). It might be more interesting to have the
PCs wake up one morning to find that the UCAS has lifted the
quarentine and everything is back to normal. I wonder what level of
paranoia that will cause. <EGM>
-David
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 13:13:04 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <19980506055442.20538.qmail@*******.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 22:54 05/05/98 PDT, you wrote:
>>> Agreed. But I could quite happily play Shadowrun if magic was never
>>> introduced to it.
>>
>>Oh, definitely. But it'd really mess the entire game up to put in
>>magic and then take it out after having it for a decade
>
> I can't believe I'm reading this... if you don't like the magic... go
>play Cyberpunk. Magic is what made SR what it is.
<sigh>
I didn't say I didn't like the magic. But Shadowrun would still be
Shadowrun if it didn't have magic, it would just be different. During most
of my games magic barely enters into the equation at all -- it's that rare.
Then again, neither do guns in my game..
What *is* Shadowrun? Is it a game? A world? A world with magic? No. It's
whatever you want it to be.
-Adam J
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 15:54:32 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980506131304.00887850@****.lis.ab.ca> from "Adam
J"
at May 6, 98 01:13:04 pm
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> At 22:54 05/05/98 PDT, you wrote:
> <sigh>
>
> I didn't say I didn't like the magic. But Shadowrun would still be
> Shadowrun if it didn't have magic, it would just be different. During most
> of my games magic barely enters into the equation at all -- it's that rare.
> Then again, neither do guns in my game..
>
> What *is* Shadowrun? Is it a game? A world? A world with magic? No. It's
> whatever you want it to be.
>
True, but for most of of, what makes it different from say COP2020 etc
is the unique combination of magic,matrix, and guns. :)
If you remove the magic, it removes some of the uniqueness. (Well for me
anyway).
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 21:57:20 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Sprawl Sites (was Re: Feeling old)
In-Reply-To: <199805061443.QAA18739@****.mhnet.fr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Cobra said on 16:50/ 6 May 98...
> I don't like Sprawl Sites. Archetypes and contacts are almost the sames as
> in the SR2 screen
Yeah, that's cause FASA reprinted the contacts section of Sprawl Sites and
the archetypes from a nmber of books that didn't make it into SR2 in that
contacts booklet... Before the SRII GM screen came out, Sprawl Sites was a
good thing to own for the extra contacts and archetypes. (And also part of
the reason why I never bothered to buy the GM screen until I found one
cheap on a second-hand games stand at a con.)
> I never heard of this one. What is the detail level of maps ? Do they all
> fit in a 205* environment ? Is there anything in addition to maps ?
Assuming "this one" means the Millennium's End GM's Companion I referred
to, the maps are very high quality, with a semi-3D effect that shows how
high things are -- unlike in Sprawl Sites where you have to guess -- and a
good description of what's where.
Naturally it's all aimed at the ME game, which is set in the modern world
(more or less -- it's slightly more chaotic) but almost all the maps are
usable for Shadowrun, IMHO. Picking a few randomly: large bar, trendy
restaurant, convenience store, art gallery or museum, large office
building, international airport, modern villa, corporate compound,
terrorist training camp, bunkers, luxury yacht, and a lot more.
About 1/3rd of the book is devoted to the maps. The rest has generic GMing
advice (the kind all these books give), adventure elements and ideas
(useful for SR as well), computer networks (not really useful for SR),
NPCs (again not useful for SR except for general ideas), lists to give
names to NPCs (good idea, but <plug> I prefer GameName
http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/pw/gameprogs.html </plug> :) organization
diagrams of various, well, organizations (could be useful in SR), and a
short list of movies relevant to the ME game world. All in all if you play
ME then this is a very good resource, for SR I find it quite handy mainly
because of the maps, but then I play ME as well so I have it on my shelf
anyway. I suggest you look through it in a game store before making up
your mind.
> >we'll have to write a net.book with encounters like that...
>
> Good idea. We should classify them by locations. The first group would be
> the security rating (AAA to Z) and the second the place where it takes
> place : Street, Bar, etc.
> I'll think about some ideas and will report it.
And we need to keep it simple -- Sprawl Sites has half-adventures, not
encounters. Hmm... is this an idea for the next PW book?
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 21:57:20 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Sprawl Sites (was Re: Feeling old)
In-Reply-To: <19980506152346.14912.rocketmail@****.rocketmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Paul Yan said on 8:23/ 6 May 98...
> A good idea if you dislike the maps and sites so much is to go to
> some of your favorite places and take pictures of them. I did that once
> and went to my neighborhood MacDonalds and used their layout for a
> restaurant scene in a game. That challenged the players to use an
> environment to their full potential. No favortism, no easy answers.
> The challenge is the fun.
An easy way to make sure you get a location correct is to try and use
those you yourself have been and know reasonably well. When my players
went to see a fixer in an abandoned store, I used the layout of a store I
worked in a few years ago, for example. The advantage is that you'll have
a good picture of what is where (and why) and can hopefully make the
players see it more easily than when you're trying to come up with a
believable building on the fly.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:22:22 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John Penta <johndevil@****.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
At 10:33 AM 5/5/98 -0500, Sheldon Rose wrote:
> I am asking the question of exactly what the subject says. Is FASA
>drifting
> on/off course in it's storyline. I am not implementing a Spoiler
>Warning of
> any kind, so just in case anyone may think this is a "sensitive
>topic", you
> have been warned. NO BOOK is sacred in this post.
Ok. Everybody REALLY oughta put in some spoiler space, when discussing
Sourcebooks and stuff. IMO, SR has stayed kinda on-course, but FASA is
*definitely* getting IRRITATING with their new habit of putting a part of
the story in sourcebooks, and the rest in novels. I stopped by
Barnes&Noble the other day...the Barnes&Noble CHAIN, AFAIK, now doesn't
carry SR Novels. Why? Because FASA now has it going to game stores. my
local game store can't carry novels, simply due to distributor issues(as
the guy at the game store, HobbyMasters, said. not sure)....ARRRGH.
Another fact is also that a LOT of info is now contained in sourcebooks
ya see once in a milennium. My parents generally only let me spend a MAX
of $30 per 3 MONTHS on game stuff, which is beginning to make following
SR futile. Arg.
John
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Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:50:35 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John Penta <johndevil@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
>At 03:04 PM 5/5/98 -0400, Erik wrote:
>I think most people avoid it because it can quickly degenerate into
>immaturity quickly. I mean, sex that had THAC0's for example.
<smiles> I know what ya mean. I'll be going from a LOT of people here,
but can't quote em all, so, sorry in advance. But, anyway...Erik's reason
is valid. occasionally that does happen. But, being a 14 year old male
here...One reason I've found most RPGers simply *don't* include sex is
because, well...most are male...to RP a female is...odd, in our minds.
From what I've seen/observed...females in RPGs? at my age(which basically
starts RPG-playing)? Not gonna happen, simply because:A. Most teen RPGers
are the mostly socially-isolated people, and are as such not quite
wanting to think about the possible situations because of the *raw* nerve
it hits. B. We're already concerned that we may never date. We play RPGs
to get AWAY from such things. bringing a female into the game, or
bringing up sex in real detail(done in VAGUE forms, else it, to quote the
DM of my AD&D group, "just feels...*bad* to get into"), exacerbates our
problems of not just relating with the opposite sex(Like that ain't a
problem for single males no matter *what* the age!:)), but with most
people.
Ok, I have a feeling I'll start to ramble here. I'll end now.
John
_____________________________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 16:39:36 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alex van der Kleut <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <19980506.162432.3814.0.johndevil@****.com>
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At 05:22 PM 5/5/98 -0500, John Penta wrote:
>Ok. Everybody REALLY oughta put in some spoiler space, when discussing
>Sourcebooks and stuff. IMO, SR has stayed kinda on-course, but FASA is
>*definitely* getting IRRITATING with their new habit of putting a part of
>the story in sourcebooks, and the rest in novels. I stopped by
>Barnes&Noble the other day...the Barnes&Noble CHAIN, AFAIK, now doesn't
>carry SR Novels. Why? Because FASA now has it going to game stores. my
>local game store can't carry novels, simply due to distributor issues(as
>the guy at the game store, HobbyMasters, said. not sure)....ARRRGH.
>Another fact is also that a LOT of info is now contained in sourcebooks
>ya see once in a milennium. My parents generally only let me spend a MAX
>of $30 per 3 MONTHS on game stuff, which is beginning to make following
>SR futile. Arg.
I think that you have a problem with your store. I was just in a
Waldenbooks yesterday and they had Technobable there. And I got it there a
few weeks ago, AFAIK when it first came out. The Barnes and Noble up the
street had it too. Talk to the manager, maybe they just don't order them at
that store because of low volume. Even if they don't order it in bulk, they
should be able to special order it for you. I know most of the chains
around here, including this B&N, will pre-order it for you, so you get it
first.
Sommers
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 15:40:50 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
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----------
> From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
> But Shadowrun would still be
> Shadowrun if it didn't have magic, it would just be different.
Adam, I respect your work on this list greatly, but that has got to be
the most moronic phrase in the entire English Language, and likely quite a
few others. X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
different.
***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
"Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn lasts
forever"
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
"Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo the
better part of humor."
aka Ellegon, Working at making Cannon canon
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are crunchy
and good with ketchup."
--------[Geek Code Block]-----------
GED/GSS d- s++:+ a-- C++ W w+ PS+.5 PE- Y+ t+
5+ X+ R*+.5 !tv+ b+.5 DI+ D- G e h !r-- !y+
-------[End Geek Code Block]-------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 13:59:30 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alexia Silverstein <alexia_silverstein@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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---John Penta <johndevil@****.COM> wrote:
<snip>
> From what I've seen/observed...females in RPGs? at my age(which
basically
> starts RPG-playing)? Not gonna happen, simply because:A. Most teen
RPGers
> are the mostly socially-isolated people, and are as such not quite
> wanting to think about the possible situations because of the *raw*
nerve
> it hits. B. We're already concerned that we may never date. <snip>
So that's why when I started playing magic in high school guys looked
at me funny when I brought my own deck in and asked if I could
join...the looked at me even funnier when I won.
I do see what you are saying though about females not getting into
roleplaying and the sort...Alot of girls just aren't into it. But on
the other hand I've always been a tomboy with my head in the clouds,
nose in a book, hating most of my classmates (almost completely
opposite of my best friend Jackie). I've mentioned RPGing to some gals
here in college and they were like what's that? So I guess I really
can see what you mean.
But if it makes you feel any better I got my friend Cara (chick age
almost 14) addicted to Earthdawn.
http://www.sova.net/trish
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:15:57 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: ED Races in SR; why it can't happen (long)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.95.980504172905.6790C-100000@***.nyu.edu>
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At 05:45 PM 5/4/98 -0400, you wrote:
<snip chupacabras = "ghoul t'skrang" theory by Jeremy Fisher>
Well, that idea makes a certain amount of sense. Though I don't believe
that the t'skrang had any real genetic compatibility with humans, so the
fact that chupacabras seem to have primate DNA probably throws this out,
right there. They are probably "ape ghouls" or something similar. Which
makes sense to me.
But let's just take this arguement forward for a moment, since this is an
old, old idea on RN. But I don't recall the most important question ever
being asked.
The question becomes this then. If the various incarnations of VITAS
(we're on what, 4? 5? now?> were engineered by someone to eliminate
t'skrang, windlings (I'm one of the minority that isn't sure
windlingúerie) and obsidimen, then who?
Who designed this virus and why?
The dragons? VITAS hits far too soon for them to be any kind of a real
impact, not to mention Dragons are only now becoming "tech-savvy." And
since they usually seem to be so seperate from metahumanity, why would they
care? If it were them, they probably would have designed VITAS to kill off
the elves.
The immortal elves? As much as I dislike them being the answer to
everything, they are the most likely candidates. They were around to see
the birth of genengineering. They are supposedly almost all somewhat
tech-savvy. It's entirely possible that with adequate resources, an "evil
'Leonardo'" could have designed VITAS to seek out certain genetic sequences
that are tied to the other ED races.
And I don't see anyone else even being a candidate.
But as I mentioned before, this all assumes that t'skrang, windlings and
obsidimen would be a part of metahumanity, that is, they would be
"goblinized" humans. Which is a huge assumption, and one I think is
erroneous to make.
Obsidimen seem to have some sort of relationship with their Liferock; I
have no recollection of anything regarding obsidimen mating or of
obisidimen babies. So they probably arise somehow direct from the
Liferock. This, if I'm right, would automatically eliminate the obsidimen
from being goblinized humans.
Windlings seem to be normal mammals, but they don't seem to be able to
breed with any of the other races. This could simply be sheer mechanics (a
troll and a windling? Physically impossible), but the fact that they have
magical wings also would seem to indicate that they are an entirely
different species. If windlings are the same as SR's faeries, this
supports the argument; they have a different genus (is that right? they
aren't homo sapiens mutablis or something is what I mean).
T'skrang? Sure, they're humanoid. But they are essentially lizards.
Overgrown iguanas. They probably share more genetic code with the lizards
of the Gallapagos Islands than they share with humans (similar, actually,
to how we share a sizable portion of our genetic code with chimpanzees).
T'skrang are evolved lizards just like humans are evolved apes.
So basically, I really don't think VITAS necessarily wiped out any of the
Earthdawn races. What did happen? Here's a speculation.
Okay, a lot of people believe that when the magic goes (4th to 5th worlds),
the metahumans begin to breed as humans. Trolls have human babies and so
on. But what about the non-human humanoid races?
Obsidimen probably just go back to their Liferocks and try to sleep it out.
It's possible that their Liferocks are actually uranium of some other
valuable mineral, so we've mined or damaged nearly all their Liferocks.
Perhaps continuing tectonic activity destroyed any number of Liferocks. Or
perhaps we've simply poisoned too much of the Earth, and their Liferocks
have been similarly poisoned. But even if they are still around, the mana
level would almost certainly have to increase before the Liferocks became
"active" again and those obsidimen are slow beings anyway, they would
certainly take their time waking up from a 5000+ year slumber.
Windlings, I'm not sure. Perhaps their numbers dwindle down to mere
hundreds and they hide in forests and such, inspiring our modern faerie
legends. If so, the faeries of SR are probably inbred and essentially
feral windlings. I think it would be difficult to breed true with a gene
pool of maybe a few hundred over at least 5 thousand years. Not to mention
retaining their culture. They're the "inbred Jeds" of the bunch.
The t'skrang are problematic. They aren't human, so they wouldn't have
human babies like trolls would. They would have to breed true I should
think. So where the frag did they all go? Did they all have normal
lizards as babies? Did their culture collapse in a catastrophic way,
killing all or nearly all of them? Are they simply so dependent on magic
that they either became infertile or ill and died when the magic went away?
Or is it possible that there are t'skrang still around, a few of them,
still living in the underwater cities that a few of them live in?
Basically, if you really want to use those races, my explanation doesn't
totally close the door on you. But these races would be so incredibly rare
that they would be more likely to be a scientific prize than a
shadowrunner. Not to mention they would probably stick with their own kind.
Anyway, these are my thoughts on the matter.
Erik J.
"This job has taken my dignity, my self-esteem, my creativity and my
precious time on this earth. YOU'VE TAKEN ALL I HAVE! THERE'S NOTHING
LEFT TO GIVE!!!"
"The blood drive is next week; this year it's mandatory...and a three-pint
minimum."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 16:28:47 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wraith <wraith@************.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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-----Original Message-----
From: John Penta <johndevil@****.COM>
>At 10:33 AM 5/5/98 -0500, Sheldon Rose wrote:
>Ok. Everybody REALLY oughta put in some spoiler space, when discussing
>Sourcebooks and stuff. IMO, SR has stayed kinda on-course, but FASA is
>*definitely* getting IRRITATING with their new habit of putting a part of
>the story in sourcebooks, and the rest in novels. I stopped by
>Barnes&Noble the other day...the Barnes&Noble CHAIN, AFAIK, now doesn't
>carry SR Novels. Why? Because FASA now has it going to game stores. my
>local game store can't carry novels, simply due to distributor issues(as
>the guy at the game store, HobbyMasters, said. not sure)
Um, check with the manager of Barnes&Noble. I've been getting most of my
Shadowrun books there recently. However, I haven't been able to find ED
novels there. Most likely that store decided not to carry them for some
reason, or, SR is so popular in your area that they're always sold out by
the time you get there :)
Wraith
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 14:28:42 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Vagabond <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: SR Books [was Re: FASA's On/Off Course?]
Content-Type: text/plain
>At 10:33 AM 5/5/98 -0500, Sheldon Rose wrote:
>
>> I am asking the question of exactly what the subject says. Is FASA
>>drifting
>> on/off course in it's storyline. I am not implementing a Spoiler
>>Warning of
>> any kind, so just in case anyone may think this is a "sensitive
>>topic", you
>> have been warned. NO BOOK is sacred in this post.
>
>Ok. Everybody REALLY oughta put in some spoiler space, when discussing
>Sourcebooks and stuff. IMO, SR has stayed kinda on-course, but FASA is
>*definitely* getting IRRITATING with their new habit of putting a part
of
>the story in sourcebooks, and the rest in novels. I stopped by
>Barnes&Noble the other day...the Barnes&Noble CHAIN, AFAIK, now doesn't
>carry SR Novels. Why? Because FASA now has it going to game stores.
The Barnes & Nobles here(in Daytona) carries Shadowrun novels. You
may be thinking of the EarthDawn novels which are published by FASA
themselves(as opposed to ROC) and so can only be shipped to Gaming
stores(since FASA is a game-publisher, and not too popular with most
bookstores).
my
>local game store can't carry novels, simply due to distributor
issues(as
>the guy at the game store, HobbyMasters, said. not sure)....ARRRGH.
AGain, I know of plenty game stores(one here and several in Georgia)
that carry SR novels along with the product. I'm pretty sure if the
owner of the store doesn't have SR novels stocked, it's because he
doesn't want them stocked. I'm surprised he hasn't offered to order
them for you. *shrug*
>Another fact is also that a LOT of info is now contained in sourcebooks
>ya see once in a milennium.
I agree. I think comes with cutting down the IE/Cabal thing. The
bigger stuff will probably be in the "event of the year" books that are
coming around(like Underworld, Blood in the Boardroom, whatever's next
year...)
My parents generally only let me spend a MAX
>of $30 per 3 MONTHS on game stuff, which is beginning to make following
>SR futile. Arg.
Either cut down on modules, or get a job :)
Seriously, keeping an eye on this list, as well as netzines like TSS
and websites like FASA's should keep you "in the know" enough for you to
deem what you think is important and what is not needed. Of course, I'm
SR book junkie, so I have to get everything just on principle(except for
the Art of Shadowrun, all it took was me to browse through it at the
store to realize how crappy it was, and then laugh at the price they
wanted me to pay for it<g>).
-Vagabond
"Under wandering stars I've grown"
________________________________________________________
<nomad74@*******.com> <ICQ 4297972>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:49:36 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
In-Reply-To: <19980506205930.22073.rocketmail@******.yahoomail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 01:59 PM 5/6/98 -0700, you wrote:
>I do see what you are saying though about females not getting into
>roleplaying and the sort...Alot of girls just aren't into it. But on
>the other hand I've always been a tomboy with my head in the clouds,
>nose in a book, hating most of my classmates (almost completely
>opposite of my best friend Jackie). I've mentioned RPGing to some gals
>here in college and they were like what's that? So I guess I really
>can see what you mean.
Aside from your gender that describes most RPGers.
>But if it makes you feel any better I got my friend Cara (chick age
>almost 14) addicted to Earthdawn.
I don't know why, but this post suddenly made me *very* old. I'm not the
oldest person on the list, but my time, off and on, goes back to 92 or 93,
when *I* was in college. Back then, most of the listmembers were in
college, but I guess with the explosion of the Internet, we've acquired a
lot of high school age members.
But reading this, I suddenly felt like an old man...it's just so rare that
I deal with anyone under 21 anymore unless they are asking "Can I take your
order please?" that this "sudden" burt of youth on RN makes me feel
ancient...
Hey, maybe we should start an old man's club on RN, gotta be at least 25 or
older. You could put "RN Geriatric Brigade" or something in your .sig and
be allowed one post per thread going on about "back in my day, we didn't
have the Internet, we had to read RN with smoke signals..."
*sigh*
Time to get out the walker...
Erik J.
Who is 25 going on 76...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:50:17 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Saving Money
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980506163936.007bf380@*****.engin.umich.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Don't take this the wrong way John Penta, but if you got a job, you would
have more money to spend on Shadowrun...but maybe you aren't old enough to
work or something, so don't take it personal. *Damn that makes me feel
even older*
But with the sole exception of "Burning Bright" by Tom Dowd, all of the
novels are not required reading to understand the current world of SR. And
I say Burning Bright is the exception because it was that novel that
dropped the bomb about Bug City. It's the only novel that's done that
though, and since it's old news, it's no longer mandatory reading.
The Dragonheart Trilogy gives background information and is an interesting
read, but not much more. Well, okay, the little blurb at the fron of Blood
in the Boardroom about Nadja Daviar's "hunky" mystery friend isn't a
mystery to those of us that read the trilogy, but it's essentially trivia.
"Technobabble," which I thoroughly enjoyed (just how much can I suck up?
;-)) isn't necessary either. Yes, it gives background on why Renraku is
fighting for it's corporate life, yes it explains the current situation of
Miles Lanier (details removed to preserve spoiler integrity). But you
could very easily run your entire SR world without even knowing it existed.
It gives background information to the story, it isn't the entire story in
and of itself.
Save the $30/3 mo that you get for SR and use it to purchase solid
sourcebooks, not novels. Get Blood in the Boardroom and Cyberpirates.
Make sure you have $30 for when SR3 comes out in August/September. And if
you happen to find a fiver laying in the gutter, brush off the dirt and
pick up Technobabble.
Heck, most game shops now have used bins; I know my game store does, and it
has some great stuff in it (I'm gonna try to find some Mage: the Ascension
stuff in the used bin tonight, I'm hoping it'll make good SR Initiate group
background). I've seen hardcover editions of core game rules, like
Earthdawn and Star Wars, in used bins before. And if your game store
doesn't have used stuff, see if your town has a used book store. Back in
Tucson there was an endless amount of D$D/AD$D stuff to be found there.
And if you really have to get stingy with your cash, simply read everything
that has a spoiler on it; you'll get the interesting info about the product
without actually spending anything except for your e-mail access. I always
ignore spoilers, but that's just me.
Anyway, back to work.
Erik J.
What I wouldn't give to be a "carefree" student once again...this 9 to 5
stuff sucks rocks...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:15:54 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Phil Levis <pal@**.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Player Gender Balances (was: Sex and the Single Shadowrunner)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980506143404.266fa06a@****.fbiz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> At 01:59 PM 5/6/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>I do see what you are saying though about females not getting into
>roleplaying and the sort...Alot of girls just aren't into it. But on
>the other hand I've always been a tomboy with my head in the clouds,
>nose in a book, hating most of my classmates (almost completely
>opposite of my best friend Jackie). I've mentioned RPGing to some gals
>here in college and they were like what's that? So I guess I really
>can see what you mean.
Interestingly enough, the group of people that I tend to roleplay with
breaks pretty evenly along gender lines. Of the 30 or so people, about
forty percent are female, and sixty percent male. A year or so ago, and
there were more women than men.
Admittedly, a greater percentage of the people who run games are
male. There are currently about nine tabletop games, and one LARP running;
six of the tabletop games are run by men, and both head GMs of the LARP
are male.
Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:24:47 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Joshua Bell <joshbell@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
In-Reply-To: <199805061541.LAA22005@***1.fac.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Brian Moore wrote:
<snip>
>And yes it is a good way to make money. But there are even more abusive
>ways to make money using Enchanting. A decent enchanter can make a Force
>3 Power Focus in a week or two, worth around 300knY, or 90knY at 30%
>"wholesale price". There really isn't a good way to handle PC enchanters
>given how easy it is to create IMHO significantly overpriced foci. IMC,
>my mage is the only PC enchanter, and he only makes foci for the members
>of his (PC) Initiatory group. He charges for the foci, but usually less
>that 25% retail cost and time spent bodyguarding.
I agree. there are several, make that dozens of ways to abuse the plain
rules of shadowrun. That is why there is a GM so that there is "suspense",
Continuity, and rules.
However, the example of making Orichalcum dosen't cost the mage/shaman any
good karma, just 44,000 nuyen and 1 month. Making Foci takes time,
materials, AND karma.
So even though you can make more money by creating foci, it is a personal
choice as to weather it is a better way.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:28:09 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: ED Races in SR; why it can't happen (long)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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----------
> From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
> Who designed this virus and why?
<snip dragons and IE's>
I agree on the IE's, but there is a possibility that I think a lot of
people overlook. Coincidence. VITAS could have coincidentally targeted
those segments of the population that carried the windling\t'skrang
capability (IIRC, Obsidimen are asexual, and born from their Liferock).
The first plague, IMO, could have very likely been targeted at something
else entirely, but came to humans.
Another possibility is that VITAS is what happens when a certain virus (I
don't remember what VITAS stands for, so I won't speculate), and it
Awakened before either T'skrang or Windlings. In the Fourth World,
T'skrang and windlings had anti-bodies to this disease... it would get a
few, but most could resist it. In the proto-Sixth world, those antibodies
had long been bred out, being no longer needed. When the virus Awakened
into its more virulent form, it killed many of the people who would become
windlings and t'skrang (having been keyed to certain genetic tags that
would have made them what they would be, had they survived).
Believe it or not, not everything is a conspiracy. In the immortal words
of the bumper sticker: Shit Happens.
> Obsidimen seem to have some sort of relationship with their Liferock; I
> have no recollection of anything regarding obsidimen mating or of
> obisidimen babies. So they probably arise somehow direct from the
> Liferock. This, if I'm right, would automatically eliminate the
obsidimen
> from being goblinized humans.
Correct. They are born from the Liferock, and they go back to the
Liferock.
> Windlings seem to be normal mammals, but they don't seem to be able to
> breed with any of the other races. If windlings are the same as SR's
faeries, this
> supports the argument; they have a different genus (is that right? they
> aren't homo sapiens mutablis or something is what I mean).
I believe you mean "sprites" (can't say, don't own the book myself).
However, windlings I'm also not so sure about. IMO, they are Awakened
humans, likely a "subrace" of elves. They aren't fond of cities, which
opens up another avenue: They could be either offshoots of dryads or a
corporeal race of nature spirits (since they are dual-natured in ED).
> T'skrang? Sure, they're humanoid. But they are essentially lizards.
> Overgrown iguanas. They probably share more genetic code with the
lizards
> of the Gallapagos Islands than they share with humans (similar,
actually,
> to how we share a sizable portion of our genetic code with chimpanzees).
> T'skrang are evolved lizards just like humans are evolved apes.
Actually, the problem is whether or not they're warm-blooded (which the
ED text seems to indicate they are). I would place them as being closer
to birds, but actually being an Awakened form of dinosaur, if they are not
human (which I am finding increasingly unlikely). Given the possibility
of surviving dinosaurs in the Congo, look for them to be coming out of the
jungles of Africa... or maybe a lake in Scotland <g>
> So basically, I really don't think VITAS necessarily wiped out any of
the
> Earthdawn races. What did happen? Here's a speculation.
Actually, there is something else you haven't considered: Did VITAS only
affect humans? Its highly likely that the decimation of humans from VITAS
was only a side effect, originally having targeted another species.
> Obsidimen probably just go back to their Liferocks and try to sleep it
out.
> It's possible that their Liferocks are actually uranium of some other
> valuable mineral, so we've mined or damaged nearly all their Liferocks.
Uranium I find highly unlikely, as it would have adverse effects in the
real world to be near an obsidiman. However, it should be noted that
certain clans of obsidimen have veins of semi-precious stones that
actually run through their flesh. If they do wake up, it might be to find
that all of their nobles are dead.
> "This job has taken my dignity, my self-esteem, my creativity and my
> precious time on this earth. YOU'VE TAKEN ALL I HAVE! THERE'S NOTHING
> LEFT TO GIVE!!!"
>
> "The blood drive is next week; this year it's mandatory...and a
three-pint
> minimum."
This is a bloody fucking hilarious quote.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 15:27:37 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Saving Money
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
> Heck, most game shops now have used bins; I know my game store does, and
it
> has some great stuff in it (I'm gonna try to find some Mage: the
Ascension
> stuff in the used bin tonight, I'm hoping it'll make good SR Initiate
group
> background). I've seen hardcover editions of core game rules, like
> Earthdawn and Star Wars, in used bins before. And if your game store
> doesn't have used stuff, see if your town has a used book store. Back in
> Tucson there was an endless amount of D$D/AD$D stuff to be found there.
>
I don't think this gets nearly enough emphasis. Here in Seattle the used
bookstores have just a _ton_ of stuff. I just landed a hard cover copy of
the SRII rules for 15 bucks a few months ago in pretty good shape. People
sell all sorts of nutty stuff to used book stores. Especially if:
a. They are broke
b. They are sick of playing the games
c. They stole it and are trying to make a buck
Another cheap way to get books is through online book stores. Especially
used. It'll prolly cost you a couple bucks in shipping and handling, but
you'll still manage to save money on some of the books. Some of them even
take checks rather than just credit cards.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 16:34:25 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: JD <germany@*****************.COM>
Subject: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks))
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>
>I don't know why, but this post suddenly made me *very* old. I'm not
the
>oldest person on the list, but my time, off and on, goes back to 92 or
93,
>when *I* was in college. Back then, most of the listmembers were in
>college, but I guess with the explosion of the Internet, we've acquired
a
>lot of high school age members.
>
>But reading this, I suddenly felt like an old man...it's just so rare
that
>I deal with anyone under 21 anymore unless they are asking "Can I take
your
>order please?" that this "sudden" burt of youth on RN makes me feel
ancient...
>
>Hey, maybe we should start an old man's club on RN, gotta be at least
25 or
>older. You could put "RN Geriatric Brigade" or something in your .sig
and
>be allowed one post per thread going on about "back in my day, we
didn't
>have the Internet, we had to read RN with smoke signals..."
>
>*sigh*
>
>Time to get out the walker...
>
>Erik J.
>
>Who is 25 going on 76...
I know how you feel. It makes me want to start a thread about... back
in SR1, the rules were.. or back before SR, we had to write our own RPG
using T$R rules as the base.
There are RPG's that I played that no longer exist. (James Bond, Top
Secret) and many games that I haven't played in two (maybe three)
iterations (Traveller -> MegaTraveller ->?).
I feel so old...
Maybe we should start our own rest home.
Jon Doud
germany@*****************.com
(Who played back when there were TWO german states.)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:42:47 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Joshua Bell <joshbell@**********.COM>
Subject: Cyberware: Where do you put the bateries?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello all Josh here,
In my musings for today I was contemplating cyberware. I wondered how all
of these neat little devices got the power they need to run. Does wired
reflexes have a battery pack? If so why isn't it listed so I as a GM can
rule that it shorted out at a most inoportune time <display evil_grin>.?.
I assume (rightly I hope) that certain cyberware requires a LOT of power
such as Encephalons, C^2 decks, Cyberlimbs (gosh yes!), etc.
What are your thoughs on how they are powered, Ahh an Ephipany! the
"Nuclear Power Plant" implant Essence cost -1,000,000. <grin>...
No really, would a datajack like act as an AC/DC cable?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 14:55:01 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Cyberware: Where do you put the bateries?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980506184247.006a1bf4@***.mindspring.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 18:42 5/6/98 -0400, Joshua Bell insinuated:
>In my musings for today I was contemplating cyberware. I wondered how all
>of these neat little devices got the power they need to run. Does wired
>reflexes have a battery pack? If so why isn't it listed so I as a GM can
>rule that it shorted out at a most inoportune time <display evil_grin>.?.
>I assume (rightly I hope) that certain cyberware requires a LOT of power
>such as Encephalons, C^2 decks, Cyberlimbs (gosh yes!), etc.
I presume that low-powered cyberware (anything that doesn't need to perform
mechanical action or transmit large amounts of energy, like datajacks,
encephalons, C^2 decks, headware memory, etc.) runs on something
resembling a very tiny fuel cell that turns your blood glucose into
electricity. Remember that encephalons may do a lot of computing, but
that's not necessarily going to require much *energy*.
High-powered cyberware, like cyberlimbs, eye lights and lasers, commlinks, and
so on require charging in some way. Since we have a precedent in Rigger 2
that you can have arbitrarily high energy density in a battery as long as
you're willing to pay for it (since increasing the number of power factors
available on a vehicle does not increase the load or CF requirements),
I've been figuring that cyberlimbs just have very good batteries that
need recharging once a week or so, and that is in fact why they cost
so much. :-) Beta or delta grade cyberlimbs might even hook up to your
circulatory system and get the energy they need for operation the same
way your regular limbs do.
--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "Ham is good... Glowing *tattooed* ham is *bad*!" - the Tick %%
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 15:56:41 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberware: Where do you put the bateries?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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----------
> From: Joshua Bell <joshbell@**********.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Cyberware: Where do you put the bateries?
> Date: Wednesday, May 06, 1998 3:42 PM
>
> Hello all Josh here,
>
> In my musings for today I was contemplating cyberware. I wondered how
all
> of these neat little devices got the power they need to run. Does wired
> reflexes have a battery pack? If so why isn't it listed so I as a GM can
> rule that it shorted out at a most inoportune time <display evil_grin>.?.
>
Shhh! No! Bad! You're making a mockery of the system!!
I especially don't want to think of it since I'll be running a heavily
cybered character in our next campaign. =)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:15:39 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses Publishing
Subject: Re: Cyberware: Where do you put the bateries?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Joshua Bell wrote:
> I assume (rightly I hope) that certain cyberware requires a LOT of power
> such as Encephalons, C^2 decks, Cyberlimbs (gosh yes!), etc.
One of the "evil GM options" used in second-hand cyberware (SSC), if I
recall correctly.
> What are your thoughs on how they are powered, Ahh an Ephipany! the
> "Nuclear Power Plant" implant Essence cost -1,000,000. <grin>...
Anything requiring a datajack (chipjack/synthlink/etc) can rely on
outside power, the same way your telephone actually carries a small
charge (millivolt range).
Larger augments could use flywheels or chemical power; anything from a
diesel-powered cyberarm to a nearly biological muscle augmentation.
Bioelectric power might be something; or even using muscle power (each
step you take, a small charge is generated; a portion of which is
diverted to a power cell) or even gravity (stand up, sit down, and
presto! your gear is recharged). The body's probably the cheapest and
most available source of power, after all.
- Matt
------------------------------------
Ask me tonight why love is strange
For I am drunk and full of reasons....
SRCard list.member.newbie
Teen Poets FAQ: http://pw1.netcom.com/~mbreton/poetry/poetfaq.htm
SRTCG Website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/2189/ccgtop.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 15:58:31 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberware: Where do you put the bateries?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> so much. :-) Beta or delta grade cyberlimbs might even hook up to your
> circulatory system and get the energy they need for operation the same
> way your regular limbs do.
>
Or better yet, it may use your body's motion to generate electricity in
someone, kinda like how stillsuits in Dune used it to supply what little
mechanical energy the suit needed.
Hmmm... =T
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:00:38 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberware: Where do you put the bateries?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Joshua Bell writes:
>In my musings for today I was contemplating cyberware. I wondered how all
>of these neat little devices got the power they need to run. Does wired
>reflexes have a battery pack? If so why isn't it listed so I as a GM can
>rule that it shorted out at a most inoportune time <display evil_grin>.?.
>
>I assume (rightly I hope) that certain cyberware requires a LOT of power
>such as Encephalons, C^2 decks, Cyberlimbs (gosh yes!), etc.
Purely electronic implants (eyes, ears, encephalons, decks, radio
_receivers_, etc) could probably run off the electricity your body already
generates. IMHO, the ability to tap into that would be the key breakthrough
that would allow cyber, after figuring a way to interface with the brain.
Mechanical implants (such as cyberarms/legs), or implants that require power
(such as a headphone or radio transmitter), would either have to have a
battery power source, or piezoelectricity has made huge advances. Actually,
I take that back. Mechanical implants could probably use the chemical energy
your muscles already use to power them. Maybe that's how they do it: a
little engine takes in glucose and blood, combusts the glucose, and uses the
resulting energy to generate electricity.
>No really, would a datajack like act as an AC/DC cable?
It could, but you don't need a datajack, so that's not the answer.
--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:17:42 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <199805062047.PAA21003@*****.interkan.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 15:40 06/05/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> But Shadowrun would still be
>> Shadowrun if it didn't have magic, it would just be different.
>
> Adam, I respect your work on this list greatly, but that has got
to be
>the most moronic phrase in the entire English Language, and likely quite a
>few others. X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
>different.
Great. Lasting impact!
This goes back to the statement that you snipped: What *is* Shadowrun? And
more specifically, what makes it Shadowrun? IMO it's a little bit of
everything -- the magic, the attitude, the cyberware, the matrix,
everything that could possibly be in the sixth world. True, if you take
the Awakening out, no meta's, no paranormals, it will be drastically
different.
Todays world would still be todays world if China went Democratic, Russia
went back Communist, France and England merged, and Canda took over the
USA. It would just be different. Way different! But it would still be
late 20th century Earth.
While I could have worded my statement alot better, I stand by it -- Magic
isn't all that makes Shadowrun Shadowrun.
-Adam J
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:23:12 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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----------
> From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
> While I could have worded my statement alot better, I stand by it --
Magic
> isn't all that makes Shadowrun Shadowrun.
True, but its a major ingredient in what makes our Shadowrun our
Shadowrun. You take it out, and it tastes like a cake where someone
forgot the baking soda.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 19:33:38 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: SThanatos <sthanatos@*********.COM>
Subject: Cyberware Power Sources (Was Re: Cyberware: Where do you put the
bateries?)
In-Reply-To: <00e301bd7942$c9fc4ec0$5a5211ac@********.mincom.oz.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Joshua Bell hath writ:
>In my musings for today I was contemplating cyberware. I wondered how all
>of these neat little devices got the power they need to run. Does wired
>reflexes have a battery pack? If so why isn't it listed so I as a GM can
>rule that it shorted out at a most inoportune time <display evil_grin>.?.
Actually, if current technology has been refined to a high degree in SR,
then there could be two probable possibilities derived from the electricity
produced by the human body.Standardly, neurons produce a charge of 700
milliwatts in a non-active state. If all the standing eletrical energy
produced by the neurons of the body could be concentrated, it could run a
small lightbulb. Perhaps in the future they have figured out how to amplify
this.
Another possibility would be the eletrical gradient across the cell
membranes of all living cells. They are currently developing microscopic
mechanisms which utilize this electric potential at the AMBRI institute in
Austrailia. If this mechanism could be maginifed, it could also be a source
of plausable and natural eletrical current.
My Two Cents
Ryan Yokley
--Kill the Bugs
<home.earthlink.net/~ryokley>;
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 16:41:27 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <dhinkley@****host.efn.org>
From: David Hinkley <dhinkley@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <199805052248.SAA13888@******.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On 5 May 98 at 18:46, MC23 wrote:
> Once upon a time, losthalo wrote;
[SNIP]
> It's simple, FASA painted themselves in a corner with Shadowrun
> in
> that everything happens in your home city. Why would the general
> player of Shadowrun buy a book on Japan when all his character's
> career is going to be in Seattle? Until FASA changes the direction
> of how Shadowrun adventures work (basically to involve traveling)
> then don't expect to see anything on other cities unless you look
> for them on the net.
I am not so sure that it is a corner in either a game world sense or
in a game publishing sense.
The key to survival in the shadows is knowledge of the local turf.
Oh, there are a few indiviuals who can move from area to area, but
the rest use their local knowledge to survive. They know where to get
things, information, where to hide, who to talk. One can have a long
and sucessful career in one city. You can also have a real short life
on the lam in a strange town.
From a sales point of view the game can be played and played well
with just the rulebook. Once they find out what a good game it is
then they start buying books. The key is to get them to buy the first
one. And it easier to sell a single book rather then a $50 plus stack
of books. AD&D periodically had that problem (sold them not played
them)
The corner FASA did paint them selves into is the restriction on the
legal movement of key equipment needed by a major segment of players.
That is guns and illegal cyber and bio wear. This limits the movement
of some types of charactors. Now with smuggling there may be ways
around some of them. Then it becomes much less risky to change
countries.
David Hinkley
dhinkley@***.org
====================================================
Those who are too intelligent to engage in politics
are punished by being governed by those who are not
--Plato
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 16:35:51 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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----------
> From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
> Date: Wednesday, May 06, 1998 4:23 PM
>
> ----------
> > From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
>
> > While I could have worded my statement alot better, I stand by it --
> Magic
> > isn't all that makes Shadowrun Shadowrun.
>
> True, but its a major ingredient in what makes our Shadowrun our
> Shadowrun. You take it out, and it tastes like a cake where someone
> forgot the baking soda.
I feel this deserves a Cthulhu analogy. =)
FASA taking magic out of Shadowrun (and with it all the metaraces, given
the SR cosmology) would be like Chaosium taking everything supernatural out
of Call of Cthulhu. Just *fwink*, one day they're all gone. No one knows
why. Sure, you could still play the game using just deranged mass murders,
obscure-yet-pointless cults, spooky-but-empty houses, but what would really
be the point? Sure, it's the same world, but without that horror beyond
human comprehension, you might as well be playing... Well, I don't even
know what game it would be. It wouldn't be CoC. Similarly, SR wouldn't be
SR without magic.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:41:50 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Geoff Skellams <geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU>
Subject: Old Farts Club (was RE: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
On Shadowrun Discussion, Erik Jameson[SMTP:erikj@****.COM] wrote:
> Hey, maybe we should start an old man's club on RN, gotta be at least
25 or
> older. You could put "RN Geriatric Brigade" or something in your .sig
and
> be allowed one post per thread going on about "back in my day, we
didn't
> have the Internet, we had to read RN with smoke signals..."
>
Well, I'll be in that (although I can't qualify for the back in
the early days of RN, because I only joined again a couple of months
ago). I turn 28 on the 25th of this month and I'm a father to boot.
> Time to get out the walker...
>
Hey, you're only as old as you think you are. I'm not ready to
go senile quite yet.
cheers
Geoff.
--
Geoff Skellams R&D - Tower Software
Email Address: geoff.skellams@*********.com.au
Homepage: http://www.towersoft.com.au/staff/geoff/
ICQ Number: 2815165
"That rates about a 9.5 on my weird-shit-o-meter"
- Will Smith in "Men in Black"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:38:47 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Nexx writes:
>> From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
>
>> While I could have worded my statement alot better, I stand by it --
>Magic
>> isn't all that makes Shadowrun Shadowrun.
>
>True, but its a major ingredient in what makes our Shadowrun our
>Shadowrun. You take it out, and it tastes like a cake where someone
>forgot the baking soda.
<clueless look>
You put baking soda in cake??
</clueless look>
Okay, just to make this contribution to the debate slightly more intelligent
than that (I'll be the first to admit that I "make" my cakes by going to the
local bakery), magic is _not_ the be-all and end-all of Shadowrun, anymore
than decking or rigging is. I've run a few campaigns in Shadowrun with
little or no magic, or decking, or rigging.
I must admit that I'd be sad to see magic taken out of SR. It is, IMHO, SR's
distinguishing characteristic that it does have the fantasy element.
--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 02:02:57 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Sprawl Sites (was Re: Feeling old)
In-Reply-To: <199805061956.VAA16474@*****.xs4all.nl>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >we'll have to write a net.book with encounters like that...
>>
>> Good idea. We should classify them by locations. The first group would be
>> the security rating (AAA to Z) and the second the place where it takes
>> place : Street, Bar, etc.
>> I'll think about some ideas and will report it.
>
>And we need to keep it simple -- Sprawl Sites has half-adventures, not
>encounters. Hmm... is this an idea for the next PW book?
It's not that simple. If it's only encounters, it can turn into random
monsters... If this can arise, I think it could be interesting to give
simple plots which can become bigger or keep small.
A good exemple could be like this :
* The runners see a corp guy bleeding in a dark alley. He has an attache
case with him.
** Short plot : The poor guy only got shot while he was coming home. He
barely escaped the gangers but will die here if the runners don't do
anything. If they save him, he can reward them with 500 Y (that's all he has).
** Long plot : The man is a corporate employee who tried to escape his
corp. To make his life easier, he took some stuff with him. After having
arranged an extraction with an fixer. This one tried to bouble cross him.
He barely escaped but was deadly hit. An equip of runners is on his trail
as well as a corp strike/recovery team. The stuff is hot but not sufficient
enough for the corp to send expert runners after him (something like 30,000
Y worth).
- Cobra.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 20:09:53 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: ED Races in SR; why it can't happen (long)
In-Reply-To: <199805062234.RAA28251@*****.interkan.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 05:28 PM 5/6/98 -0500, you wrote:
> Believe it or not, not everything is a conspiracy. In the
immortal words
>of the bumper sticker: Shit Happens.
Oh, I know. I was just speculating. IF this is true, then what are the
implications sort of thing. A mental exercise, especially since I don't
personally believe that VITAS did wipe out the ED races.
> I believe you mean "sprites" (can't say, don't own the book myself).
>However, windlings I'm also not so sure about. IMO, they are Awakened
>humans, likely a "subrace" of elves. They aren't fond of cities, which
>opens up another avenue: They could be either offshoots of dryads or a
>corporeal race of nature spirits (since they are dual-natured in ED).
Sprites, faeries, brownies, leprechauns, to me, they are all essentially
the same.
I'd have to think they aren't an elf off-shoot because they are so much
smaller than elves and have those wings. I'd really be more inclined to
think they are totally separate from humanity.
> Actually, the problem is whether or not they're warm-blooded
(which the
>ED text seems to indicate they are). I would place them as being closer
>to birds, but actually being an Awakened form of dinosaur, if they are not
>human (which I am finding increasingly unlikely). Given the possibility
>of surviving dinosaurs in the Congo, look for them to be coming out of the
> jungles of Africa... or maybe a lake in Scotland <g>
Now this is probably true. T'skrang as awakened humanoid dinosaurs (which,
according to some paleontologists may actually have been warm blooded; I
seem to recall that part of their arguement is that in order to keep up a
constant body temperature a 30 ton dinosaur would have to eat 30 hours in a
24 hour day. A bit impossible).
And *IF* they were to appear, I would expect them either from the darkest
interior of Congo Africa. Or perhaps in an underwater city off the coast
of India (that's from the Theran sourcebook).
> Actually, there is something else you haven't considered: Did
VITAS only
>affect humans? Its highly likely that the decimation of humans from VITAS
>was only a side effect, originally having targeted another species.
Now that's thinking laterally. But entirely possible. Most diseases don't
cross species for some reason, but some do and it is possible that VITAS is
one of them. That could explain the chupacabras (and I'm now convinced
they are chimpanzee ghouls or the equivalent). But what species? Nothing
about a mass extinction of any specific species is mentioned in SR. And
Awakened critters just don't spring out of nothingness, they are all
"mutant" version of modern animals.
>> "This job has taken my dignity, my self-esteem, my creativity and my
>> precious time on this earth. YOU'VE TAKEN ALL I HAVE! THERE'S NOTHING
>> LEFT TO GIVE!!!"
>>
>> "The blood drive is next week; this year it's mandatory...and a
>three-pint
>> minimum."
> This is a bloody fucking hilarious quote.
Don't thank me, thank Scott Adams and Dilbert. That man is a messiah;
Wally is my hero and Catbert is my idol. There is supposedly going to be a
Dilbert cartoon on ABC prime time next fall; if they put it on the same
night as Dharma&Greg and The Drew Carey Show, that's one night I *won't* be
leaving the house.
Good points though.
Erik J.
"What was that popping sound?"
"A paradigm shifting without a clutch."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 20:10:27 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the Single
Shadowrunner(thanks))
In-Reply-To: <00f401bd793f$22ddbe60$ab29640a@********.corelus.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 04:34 PM 5/6/98 -0600, you wrote:
>I know how you feel. It makes me want to start a thread about... back
>in SR1, the rules were.. or back before SR, we had to write our own RPG
>using T$R rules as the base.
Ah, SR1 and autosuccesses and variable staging. Hey, I bet the kiddies
haven't ever heard of 3L1 or 5D4 damage codes, eh? Now THAT complicated
combat.
>There are RPG's that I played that no longer exist. (James Bond, Top
>Secret) and many games that I haven't played in two (maybe three)
>iterations (Traveller -> MegaTraveller ->?).
Top Secret, played that. TORG, which bit. Hell, I can remember the days
when the only collectible cards were baseball cards. Now THOSE were the
days...
>Maybe we should start our own rest home.
Hey, it could be like Gurth's Stairs, but only us old folks are allowed in.
We could play shuffle board and cribbage and gum our meals!
>(Who played back when there were TWO german states.)
You know what the sad thing is? There are plenty of people on this list
who simply have no recollection of living like that, who only know about
the Cold War from books and school. Some of us geezers actually grew up
with the spectre of the Red Menance and Global Thermonuclear War.
Ah, enough of this OT stuff. Somebody, set up the Old Folks Home so us
gezzers have some place to rest our weary bones and soak our teeth.
Erik J.
"Ladies & Gentleman, the newest member of the band, the one and only Spice
Boy, GRUMPY SPICE!!!" <and the crowd goes wild!!!>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 01:02:24 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Harleys and Pumpguns
In-Reply-To: <199805061038.MAA15455@*****.xs4all.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <199805061038.MAA15455@*****.xs4all.nl>, Gurth
<gurth@******.NL> waffled & burbled about Harleys and Pumpguns
(storing stuff under bike seats)
>My comment was inspired mainly by the Yamaha 50 cc bike I owned about 5
>years ago, which had a small amount of space under the seat. Itwould have
>been large enough to put a keyboard (cyberdeck) only if you'd first drove
>a steamroller across the keyboard,
Heh. I don't think that would be a healthy action for the cyberdeck in
all honesty. It may influence it's ability to function. :)
>but since the RBB states there is quite
>some underseat storage space
I've noticed that, and in all honesty I'm somewhat puzzled where this
space comes from. :) The graphics they've used for the bikes doesn't
imply there's up to 2cf under the seat. :)
>I pictured my old bike with more room under
>the seat, and decided in that case it should be big enough for a
>cyberdeck. YMMV, naturally.
Hehe, yep, mileage definitely varies, it's better out of town. <g>
>Then there are those scooters ("It looks like you're sitting on a toilet,"
>someone I know once said about them :) that often have the room to store a
>helmet under the seat and/or in a storage compartment in the front shield.
Again, in the case of most scooters, the fuel tank is under the seat -
go figure. But yes, I have seen Honda scooters with enough room for an
eggshell (open face) helmet.
--
Avenger
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 20:43:15 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Phil Levis <pal@**.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: ED Races in SR; why it can't happen (long)
In-Reply-To: <199805062234.RAA28251@*****.interkan.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 6 May 1998, Nexx wrote:
> ----------
> > From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
>
> > Who designed this virus and why?
> <snip dragons and IE's>
> I agree on the IE's, but there is a possibility that I think a lot of
> people overlook. Coincidence. VITAS could have coincidentally targeted
> those segments of the population that carried the windling\t'skrang
> capability (IIRC, Obsidimen are asexual, and born from their Liferock).
> The first plague, IMO, could have very likely been targeted at something
> else entirely, but came to humans.
There is, of course, another possibility behind the lack of T'skrang,
Obisidimen, and depending which side you take, Windlings. For the sake of
completeness, I'll assume that Faerie are not Windlings, and Windlings
have yet to appear.
One simple explanation is magic levels. Although magic levels are high,
they are not high enough for T'skrang, Obsidimen or Windlings to appear.
In the Denizens of Barsaive book, it is mentioned that with magic levels
dropping, T'skrang have a lower egg fertility rate. Each of these three
races are not necessarily directly related to humans; for this reason, it
is possible that their resurgence requires a higher magic level. For
example, I don't believe that the Obsidimen will necessarily appear at the
same time as dwarves and elves. Consider the length of mana cycles; it's
quite possible that T'skrang will appear in two or three hundred years;
with such a time scale, FASA can safely say that T'skrang will not appear
in Shadowrun.
I could certainly buy the possibility of IEs tailoring a virus to decimate
the T'ksrang. However, I severely doubt that it would be done to harm
Obsidimen and Windlings. Additionally, I doubt that an IE could do it
without dragons and other IEs noticing; the repercussions of some dragons
learning this would be immense. Additionally, I doubt that the virus could
be one hundred percent effective. Some possible T'skrang would survive.
If VITAS was indeed a something which was created by some to prevent the
appearance of T'skrang, I would postulate it was done by a single
individual. Although there is racial enmity between some elves and
T'skrang, I don't think it is great enough that a large group of IEs would
take this course of action. This may have changed, however, since the time
which Earthdawn takes place.
Perhaps the T'skrang and Obsidimen all died before the Fourth World ended?
It's certainly possible. We have yet to see those such as The Laughing Man
or Usmondo comment on their fate.
Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 20:52:49 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <SHADOWRN%98050603091036@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 02:16 AM 5/6/98 -0500, you wrote:
If politics is the main focus, a bit of magic and the intrigue
>added by such things as immortal elves, always helps.
Frankly, having enormously powerful (in relation to the PCs) manipulators
behind the scenes tends to strip away the illusion of free will, and the
idea that the PCs are important to the campaign. It's the SR equivalent of
high-level types tagging along with low-level adventurers in AD&D. It can
be overdone _so_ easily. Let the PCs live their lives, involved in
intrigues on their level, etc. Let them meet a degree of magic that is 1)
appropriate to their power level, and 2) that is consistent with the world
(i.e., 1% magically active, and varying types of magicians and adepts
divide it up from there, it's rare with a capital R).
The IEs are just too much of a good thing, if used at all it must be
-sparingly-, the same as, say, dragons, or vampires... There is enormous
potential for intrigue in SR even if you are only talking about your
street-level group of runners, their fixers and contacts, and the local
crime scene. Yakuza, Mafia, Seoulpa, the Star, corps muddying their hands
hiring the various 'mobs', gangs... there is plenty of room for intrigue
there without ever bringing in magic, metahumans, or Immortal Elves. Throw
in an old enemy or three, or a questionable romance, etc. ...
More intrigue than you can shake a stick at.
I can imagine Harlequin making -an- appearance in a campaign with your
average group of street runners. Beyond that, their lives 1) should get
very difficult, as Harley is involved in shite waaaay out of their league
["What do you know about this elf? Don't tell me you know jack, you've
worked with him at least twice..."], 2) they should have their heads
examined if they willingly get involved in this stuff: "And never, ever
cut a deal with a dragon."
losthalo@********.comwhileyouarelisteningyourwillingattentionismakingyoumore
andmoreintothepersonyouwanttobecome.
"Some things are true whether you believe them or not."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 21:34:57 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: (Semi-OT) Harleys and Pumpguns
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 5/5/98 8:29:42 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
sabredanz@****.COM writes:
> Sure he wasn't on his way to The Pensic War?
>
> Sabredanz
>
sorry this is a couple of days old...what war???
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 21:57:51 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 5/5/98 4:05:56 PM US Eastern Standard Time, gurth@******.NL
writes:
> And that's what each of these years tends to bring us. The election year
> saw Dunkelzahn get killed. The crime year started with O'Malley getting
> his head shot off. The corp year has a megacorp going under (I haven't got
> the books yet, so I don't know the details). As I was typing this just
> now, I suddenly realized somebody big gets taken out of the game world in
> each year...
>
GOOD!!! Then maybe the "Year of the Comet" will see Lofwyr finally getting
his...
-K (who finally figured out the "Arrow of Red Dragon Slaying" joke...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:04:50 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Sprawl Sites (was Re: Feeling old)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, Cobra wrote;
>It's not that simple. If it's only encounters, it can turn into random
>monsters... If this can arise, I think it could be interesting to give
>simple plots which can become bigger or keep small.
>A good exemple could be like this :
>* The runners see a corp guy bleeding in a dark alley. He has an attache
>case with him.
>** Short plot : The poor guy only got shot while he was coming home. He
>barely escaped the gangers but will die here if the runners don't do
>anything. If they save him, he can reward them with 500 Y (that's all he
>has).
>** Long plot : The man is a corporate employee who tried to escape his
>corp. To make his life easier, he took some stuff with him. After having
>arranged an extraction with an fixer. This one tried to bouble cross him.
>He barely escaped but was deadly hit. An equip of runners is on his trail
>as well as a corp strike/recovery team. The stuff is hot but not sufficient
>enough for the corp to send expert runners after him (something like 30,000
>Y worth).
I think we've found a good example of how some of these things should be
set up. A window dressing option should be presented as well. Sometimes
is nice to have background that has no plot attatched. Gurth, are you
ready to be editor to a net book with a general list contibution. Hell, I
might even add something.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
I swear to tell
the Truth, the partial Truth, or something like the Truth.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:06:21 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, Alexia Silverstein wrote;
>But if it makes you feel any better I got my friend Cara (chick age
>almost 14) addicted to Earthdawn.
I have to ask, what is chick age almost 14 in human years?
B>]#
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:09:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, Erik Jameson wrote;
>>Maybe we should start our own rest home.
>
>Hey, it could be like Gurth's Stairs, but only us old folks are allowed in.
> We could play shuffle board and cribbage and gum our meals!
Screw that "old man," I'll stay out here until the Ragnorok Of
Flamewars finally takes me, never wavering to the end!
B>]#
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed,
briefed, debriefed, or numbered "
-No. 6, The Prisoner
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:13:54 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, Erik Jameson wrote;
>But reading this, I suddenly felt like an old man...it's just so rare that
>I deal with anyone under 21 anymore unless they are asking "Can I take your
>order please?" that this "sudden" burt of youth on RN makes me feel
>ancient...
I've been a club boi for half my life now so I still deal with young
uns'. Now realizing they are all too young to date makes me feel really
ancient.
Is this becoming an Immortal Listmembers thread now?
Damn IL's are behind everything!
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
I swear to tell
the Truth, the partial Truth, or something like the Truth.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 04:21:19 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980506090038.21974fd6@**********.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> If politics is the main focus, a bit of magic and the intrigue
>>added by such things as immortal elves, always helps.
>
>Frankly, having enormously powerful (in relation to the PCs) manipulators
>behind the scenes tends to strip away the illusion of free will, and the
>idea that the PCs are important to the campaign. It's the SR equivalent of
>high-level types tagging along with low-level adventurers in AD&D. It can
>be overdone _so_ easily. Let the PCs live their lives, involved in
>intrigues on their level, etc. Let them meet a degree of magic that is 1)
>appropriate to their power level, and 2) that is consistent with the world
>(i.e., 1% magically active, and varying types of magicians and adepts
>divide it up from there, it's rare with a capital R).
1) I don't consider like this. I give an opposition (magic or not) based on
the guys who send it, whatever the power of PCs. If they mess up with one
of the big 8, then they must prepare themselves to suffer big assault. My
players are quite used to it. So, if they deal with a minor group and have
to suffer a big reply, they can think about something strange.
2) I do agree with it but you also must consider that makes them important
people and so are more likely to deal with runners. You must also consider
that this proportion is bigger in some areas (I'm not sure but I remember
Tir having 3% of them). Also, mages from other countries tend to go to UCAS
because they hope they can gain some power/money/whatever there and they're
most likely to be right...
The last point is that there must something like 1 runner per 10,000 or
100,000 but runners tend to encounter a lot of them ! :)
>The IEs are just too much of a good thing, if used at all it must be
>-sparingly-, the same as, say, dragons, or vampires... There is enormous
>potential for intrigue in SR even if you are only talking about your
>street-level group of runners, their fixers and contacts, and the local
>crime scene. Yakuza, Mafia, Seoulpa, the Star, corps muddying their hands
>hiring the various 'mobs', gangs... there is plenty of room for intrigue
>there without ever bringing in magic, metahumans, or Immortal Elves. Throw
>in an old enemy or three, or a questionable romance, etc. ...
>More intrigue than you can shake a stick at.
>
>I can imagine Harlequin making -an- appearance in a campaign with your
>average group of street runners. Beyond that, their lives 1) should get
>very difficult, as Harley is involved in shite waaaay out of their league
>["What do you know about this elf? Don't tell me you know jack, you've
>worked with him at least twice..."], 2) they should have their heads
>examined if they willingly get involved in this stuff: "And never, ever
>cut a deal with a dragon."
I totally agree. However, I massively use dragons and IE... But they almost
never see them. It's kind of GM pleasure. I imagine big plots from some of
them and the way they fight against each other with the runners in the
middle. They think that runs are anodine but they are linked in some way to
the other ones... And yes, mystery is definitely something that makes
things interesting to players. That's the main reason why my players never
read SR sourcebooks. After some years, the PCs (the favorites because I
GMed 3 campaigns) have become quite powerful. Now, they have to face them
and to play with them. Actually, that makes things a bit different...
That's why I started an other campaign. But, from time to time
(approximately once a month), they play these characters and they are a lot
more comfortable with their situation because they're powerful but do not
have sufficient knowledge to really be able to handle that...
- Cobra.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 04:21:28 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Cyberware Power Sources (Was Re: Cyberware: Where do you put
the bateries?)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980506193338.0069baec@****.geocities.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>In my musings for today I was contemplating cyberware. I wondered how all
>>of these neat little devices got the power they need to run. Does wired
>>reflexes have a battery pack? If so why isn't it listed so I as a GM can
>>rule that it shorted out at a most inoportune time <display evil_grin>.?.
>
>Actually, if current technology has been refined to a high degree in SR,
>then there could be two probable possibilities derived from the electricity
>produced by the human body.Standardly, neurons produce a charge of 700
>milliwatts in a non-active state. If all the standing eletrical energy
>produced by the neurons of the body could be concentrated, it could run a
>small lightbulb. Perhaps in the future they have figured out how to amplify
>this.
>Another possibility would be the eletrical gradient across the cell
>membranes of all living cells. They are currently developing microscopic
>mechanisms which utilize this electric potential at the AMBRI institute in
>Austrailia. If this mechanism could be maginifed, it could also be a source
>of plausable and natural eletrical current.
Anyway, that makes a big problem with SR technology. If you can *easily*
produce energy to use most cyberware without having to refuel every day or
week, you should use that same energy production for vehicles... That means
that vehicles should have a lot more potential than it is stated in SR
(they're not very different from now...).
I don't think we could find a way to compromise those two facts...
Cyberware is here for... Ambiance... And the average tech is here to give
more *realism*.
That makes me think about an evolution of SR world... Magic drains energies
from astral quite easily and with great potential. If you magic and
technological devices to harvest those energies, that can give you great
possibilities.
- Cobra.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 21:21:05 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Cyberware: Where do you put the batteries?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
> Purely electronic implants (eyes, ears, encephalons, decks, radio
> _receivers_, etc) could probably run off the electricity your body
already
> generates. IMHO, the ability to tap into that would be the key
breakthrough
> that would allow cyber, after figuring a way to interface with the
brain.
Actually, I see to recall Hatchetman saying that his cyber-eyes had
battery packs. Likely, they're long-lived supplements the natural power
source.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 21:29:04 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the
SingleShadowrunner(thanks))
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
> Ah, SR1 and autosuccesses and variable staging. Hey, I bet the kiddies
> haven't ever heard of 3L1 or 5D4 damage codes, eh? Now THAT complicated
> combat.
Or when physads were gods because they're powers were automatic
successes... dear gods, I loved those guys.
> You know what the sad thing is? There are plenty of people on this list
> who simply have no recollection of living like that, who only know about
> the Cold War from books and school. Some of us geezers actually grew up
> with the spectre of the Red Menance and Global Thermonuclear War.
Course, some of us young folks managed to remember things from times when
the threat of Global Thermonuclear War was something more than a plot on a
movie.
***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
"Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn lasts
forever"
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
"Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo the
better part of humor."
aka Ellegon, Working at making Cannon canon
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are crunchy
and good with ketchup."
--------[Geek Code Block]-----------
GED/GSS d- s++:+ a-- C++ W w+ PS+.5 PE- Y+ t+
5+ X+ R*+.5 !tv+ b+.5 DI+ D- G e h !r-- !y+
-------[End Geek Code Block]-------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:35:48 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
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In a message dated 5/5/98 4:46:10 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
grota@*********.COM writes:
> Sounds like a good deal. Feel like hiring a dual-natured, heavily wired
> samurai for that? Jett is looking for work and needs a weapon focus...
> :)
>
> --Jett
>
I think at this point, "Binder" would have to say..."uh...dear...you have a
problem...heavily wired and weapon foci are not often a good combination" :P
-K (who is getting used to his new ergonomic keyboard...)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:41:17 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Gaming GenCon (Re: Tournament GMing)
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In a message dated 5/5/98 5:52:33 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
grota@*********.COM writes:
> Honestly, though, I'm a bit uncertain about playing at Gencon. (And Yes,
> I'm going to do my damndest to get there.) While I've been told that I'm
> a pretty decent RPer, I've never played outside of IRC. It's hard to
> imagine playing without private message windows and text files all nice
> and neat on your desktop. Likewise, I've only GMed on-line. Hmm. This
> should be interesting...
>
Well Jett, there is in theory the "Open Doors Game" I suggested a while ago
into running (NOT AN OFFICIAL GAME!!). The idea was anyone who had a
previously existing character could join us (assuming the group doesn't become
a "MOB" to large to comprehend the fun of course :).
That and I had no idea how many people would be interested. Lady J expressed
an interest once, but then she had to back down from GenCon in general
(Australian Travel arrangements can do that ya know ;).
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:49:00 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: The Art of Fencing (Re: Fencing vs. Street Index)
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In a message dated 5/5/98 5:59:37 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
joshbell@**********.COM writes:
> My Question is therefore:
>
> Where does the extra money go?
>
Please note I snipped several comparisons and ideas put forth by Josh...some
of which were well stated I might add.
However, "Fencing" is also about arranging secure shipments, paying bribes to
any and/or all involved forces, which can exist from the Street Gang that
might have the particular territory claimed to the Yakuza or Mafia that have
Lord and Say over a particular collection of buildings or old warehouses for
usage. Fencing the loot is about arranging safe connections on not only the
buying end of things, but on the selling end of things as well, and everyone
wants a cut of the action.
Fencing can also require specific actions of an unusual nature. For example,
going along with the Talismongers thread here...Binder once decided to set
aside a very sizable portion of time and went about making a LARGE series of
batches of Orichalcum. Please note, with Background Count and/or Focused
Concentration, it is possible to have more than one batch going at the same
time...bring into this Centering, and things can get REALLY impressive.
Anyway, when he was done, he went about making matrix contacts with a nearly
equal size number of people. He had to make travel arrangements and shipping
arrangements, all of which cost money, including various customs (read as
Bribes in some cases) and other similar "international exchange agreements"
(You try and convince the Scribe to pay that much...try it, I dare ya!!!).
All of this cost money, as did his need to retain various levels of lifestyles
and fronts that were going as well. Add to that the background of such a
character, and you get additional bills like Contact Maintenance, Child Care,
maintaining/retaining various fake/legal SINS, etcetera.......
YES, it is a big size of money, but it is very well placed IMO...
-K (who has never lied to anyone about the details of understanding what it
means to be "AN ENCHANTER" before)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 23:34:54 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
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In a message dated 5/5/98 9:25:33 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
runefo@***.UIO.NO writes:
> > Technically Three, I forgot to count myself here...
> >
> > -K
> Oh, you vote OFF? Damn. I have to vote ON, then. ;)
>
I knew it!!! You would do that just to be, what was it you called me again???
"arrogant, smug <insert ancestral somethingorother>??? :P Yeah, well the
same right back at you too....(removes white glove, slaps once across both
-BUTT-cheeks for a challenge)....
Anyway, the Immortals are a bit much, but not beyond reproach, but then our
gaming style here is admittedly different from many. But some of things that
are happening are
Okay, I'll say it. I don't think that "the Comet" or any other force is going
to remove the magic from SR (all that money paid to Steve K. and then they
don't use it??? I don't think so :P). But I guess I am just rapidly
reaching the point where I just keep thinking that too many changes are going
to be made.
in short...I do NOT want to play Cyberpunk or variation thereon...I want to
play Shadowrun....I guess finding the right balance between Magic and
Technology remains the problem...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 23:36:08 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MgkellyMP5 <MgkellyMP5@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the Single
Shadowrunner(t
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In a message dated 98-05-06 20:16:15 EDT, you write:
<< Ah, SR1 and autosuccesses and variable staging. Hey, I bet the kiddies
haven't ever heard of 3L1 or 5D4 damage codes, eh? Now THAT complicated
combat.
>>
and it was a pain in the ass too! '-2 to Power Level/ +1 Wound Level and it
makes the damage code of a Browning Max-Power with Firepower ammo....'
personally, i was very relieved when they started using 2 as the Staging
number for everything in SR2.
Mgkelly
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 23:39:22 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Radiation and Magic
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In a message dated 5/5/98 11:09:07 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
wraith@************.COM writes:
> (slight spoiler to Burning Bright)
>
> Not to mention that in Burning Bright, the ward sealed in the radiation
from
> the explosion....
>
> Wraith
>
Not all of it, it didn't. Hell, in our games the Ward still exists and
occasionally someone has to go in to that Hellfire Pit and augment some parts
of the external energies (oh yeah, LOADS OF FUN!!! --- NOT!!!!!!).
Real fun now is that the Ward is breaking down because of the FAB-3
strains...so I can only imagine what is going to happen when that mess occurs.
And in our games, the FAB-3 is mutating, getting more and more comfortably
with the toxic zone that surrounds the ward. So it is only a matter of
time...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 23:41:47 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MgkellyMP5 <MgkellyMP5@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 98-05-06 22:16:02 EDT, you write:
<< I've been a club boi for half my life now so I still deal with young
uns'. Now realizing they are all too young to date makes me feel really
ancient.
>>
it's worse thinking certain...things about them, and then finding out their
age. you suddenly realize that you are going to Hell for the debauched
thoughts running through your mind.
>>>Is this becoming an Immortal Listmembers thread now?<<<
at least it isn't Immortal Elves again. bastards....
sorry. still bitter about that Munchkin GM i had once throwing the group up
against an All-Powerful IE. with nothing to show for the effort.
Bastard Munchie-GM....
i'll stop now. sorry to Grid-Sec for running OT.
Mgkelly
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 23:52:33 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Vehicle Economy (was RE: What is a CF?)
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Unknown Sender said:
-=-=-=-=-
That's nothing... I wanted a tiny little rotor drone for really simple
snooping about. Those suckers can only go about 50 meters on electric
power.
I'm still trying to figure out where a man-sized or smaller rotor drone
fits 120 liters of fuel.
-=-=-=-=-
Well, on the first, we found a few things to consider. Gridlink is the
funniest thing we've ever had added to an "arachnid", as was Suncell. We also
like to point out that "Suncell" if it's like the current solar panels of the
modern calculator can produce "some" current from standard (artificial)
lighting. We just gave the Suncell a very small production level say 1-3 PF
an hour...not a lot, but if coupled with planning, yeppers, can be loads fun.
As for the fuel, yeah, the numbers don't match quite right, i know...we argued
out compressed fuel tanks (which I once made rules for...Wordman, if you read
this, do you still have those as well? They were in the Nagee back when Chris
did them)....
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 23:55:09 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
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In a message dated 5/6/98 10:42:35 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
mooreb@****.FAC.COM writes:
> And yes it is a good way to make money. But there are even more abusive
> ways to make money using Enchanting. A decent enchanter can make a Force
> 3 Power Focus in a week or two, worth around 300knY, or 90knY at 30%
> "wholesale price". There really isn't a good way to handle PC enchanters
> given how easy it is to create IMHO significantly overpriced foci. IMC,
> my mage is the only PC enchanter, and he only makes foci for the members
> of his (PC) Initiatory group. He charges for the foci, but usually less
> that 25% retail cost and time spent bodyguarding.
>
Abusive??? You want Abusive, I'll show you a good one and maybe give everyone
a clue to something. An "Enchanting Test" can be used to lower the karma cost
of many foci. Binder used to in his "younger days" make an object then charge
them the "full karmic cost" of the object, make the seperate test, and keep
the difference for his lonely little ol' self...combine that with money...oh
yeah, remember that really well...Rob Nesius probably does too if he thinks
about it (a butterfly knife come to mind Rob??)
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 21:06:41 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
MIME-Version: 1.0
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----------
> From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Talismongering
> Date: Wednesday, May 06, 1998 8:55 PM
>
>
> Abusive??? You want Abusive, I'll show you a good one and maybe give
everyone
> a clue to something. An "Enchanting Test" can be used to lower the karma
cost
> of many foci. Binder used to in his "younger days" make an object then
charge
> them the "full karmic cost" of the object, make the seperate test, and
keep
> the difference for his lonely little ol' self...combine that with
money...oh
> yeah, remember that really well...Rob Nesius probably does too if he
thinks
> about it (a butterfly knife come to mind Rob??)
>
He was able to take other people's karma? Was he a free spirit, or were
you a bit loose with the rules? ;)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 00:12:19 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberware: Where do you put the bateries?
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 5/6/98 5:43:51 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
joshbell@**********.COM writes:
> I assume (rightly I hope) that certain cyberware requires a LOT of power
> such as Encephalons, C^2 decks, Cyberlimbs (gosh yes!), etc.
>
> What are your thoughs on how they are powered, Ahh an Ephipany! the
> "Nuclear Power Plant" implant Essence cost -1,000,000. <grin>...
>
> No really, would a datajack like act as an AC/DC cable?
>
Actually, I would like to point out that the cyberware may or may not have a
power plant, depend on the level of "superconductors" and "bio-electric
cross-
mechanics" have reached in your games. As for the datajack acting like an
AC/DC cable...consider this...plug in your phone jack....
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 00:49:55 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wordman <wordman@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I have a mixed vote, I guess. I like what FASA is doing, but I think they
are doing it to quickly. They did the same thing to Battletech. I was
perfectly happy before the Fourth Succession War, then they spring that on
us, and then, God help us, the frigging Clans show up and screwed up
everything. Same problems with power curve, too.
Point is, most groups meet once a week, for maybe four to six hours. In
that time, you can fit _maybe_ a couple of days of game time in, if you
really hurry. So plots unfold slowly. By the time you get to a point where
you can incorporate something, some new thing comes out, and you sort of
feel like you have to hurry to catch it. I know you don't have to, but you
still feel that way.
As far as the "year of" style goes, I think the idea is not just to say "oh
this will be fun", but to open a new _kind_ of shadowrunning. Cyberpirates,
for example, details a sea-bourne campaign. Fields of Fire introduced
mercenary campaigns. Bug City, and so on. Width the Underworld Sourcebook,
you get a good feel for running and organized crime campaign. BitB was
slightly different, in that it offered a sort of different mind set for
running. BitB forces players to think a bit more like fixers ("this is
happening, how can I take best advantage of it") than most other runs. It
also provides a plausible way to involve amatures in the running biz (more
low-level corpers might use runners) and dealing with amatures tends to
make good stories, as mistakes are much more interesting. Seems like FASA
is trying to do more of this kind of product, exposing the breadth of the
stories that can be told in the world of Shadowrun.
I like this, but while breadth is good, I think depth is more _useful_ to
me as a GM. I would love it if they slowed down the pace of the big plot
twisting books to a two year turn-around instead of one, and came out with
more depth-based products (at least as deep as the Seattle Sourcebook) per
year.
I also like their track system method for adventures. It gives me the kind
of info I look for in an adventure book and not much else. The ones I've
seen also let me set the power curve, which is useful.
One thing I've yet to see if I like is there handling of magic. SRs magic
system borrowed a lot from "real" magic, and had a very good feel to it.
From what I've seen the only person who currently grooves into this feel is
Steve, who is not a FASA employee. This concerns me a bit, as it may mean
more new magic rules that originate from a "this would be cool" feeling
instead of "a logical extension of the magic system would be" kind of
feeling. We'll see on this one.
I'm satified with current handling of I.E.s. (BTW, did Tom Dowd ever reveal
why Elves and Dragons don't seem to like each other much before he left SR?
Did that secret "die" with him?)
As far as "where do I want to go today?": The path I'd like for SR is
definately not the one FASA will take. I really like more street level
plots, and FASA tends towards the Epic. I'd love to see an adventure book
that is geared mostly towards a gang campaign. The book would give extreme
detail on maybe ten blocks, the gang's turf. Even if you didn't run a gang
campaign, you could have runners enter the turf for one reason or another.
That's the type of stuff a really like -- exactlt the type of stuff FASA
does not make (with possible exception of Seattle Sourcebook).
Wordman
"Stressed from the battle, but not fatigued.
My hat's made of metal to avoid debris."
-- N.W.H. "Buried and Bald"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 00:49:46 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wordman <wordman@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 14:33 05/05/98 +0000, you wrote:
>> Does anyone remember the
>> little slogan you see about Shadowrun in the game shop posters?
>> "Where man meets machine in an age of magic". The way things are
>> going, I wouldn't be surprised if Haley's Comet takes all of the
>> magic with it when it leaves.
Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA> wrote:
>HAHAHA!
>ROFL! ROFL! ROFL!
>I'm going to have to save this post.
>(Sorry if it seems like I'm laughing at you here. I'll shut up.)
I can vouch for Adam that he's not laughing at the original poster. Adam, I
know why you're laughing, and it's enough to drive a man to drink.
Wordman
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 00:49:30 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wordman <wordman@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Farts Club
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Geoff Skellams <geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU> wrote:
> On Shadowrun Discussion, Erik Jameson[SMTP:erikj@****.COM] wrote:
>> Hey, maybe we should start an old man's club on RN, gotta be at
>> least 25 or older. You could put "RN Geriatric Brigade" or something
I prefer the phrase "Elder Statesmen".
> Well, I'll be in that (although I can't qualify for the back in
> the early days of RN, because I only joined again a couple of months
> ago). I turn 28 on the 25th of this month and I'm a father to boot.
Damn! You're even older than me! (By a month or so, anyway).
Wordman
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 00:49:39 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wordman <wordman@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA> wrote:
> While I could have worded my statement alot better, I stand by it -- Magic
> isn't all that makes Shadowrun Shadowrun.
Easily abusable rules are what make Shadowrun Shadowrun.
Wordman
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 00:56:02 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <199805062047.PAA21003@*****.interkan.net>
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|> From: Nexx
|> Sent: May 6, 1998 4:41 PM
|> Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
|> Adam, I respect your work on this list greatly, but that
|> has got to be
|> the most moronic phrase in the entire English Language, and
|> likely quite a
|> few others. X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
|> different.
Phew, I was hesitant in answering Adam's post due to my recent history,
but was hoping someone else had caught this. If someone had given this
phrase to my teacher when I was taking Critical Thinking, they would have
flunked. Basically he is saying P= !P which is not possible.
I would believe that Adam was trying to say that Shadowrun without magic
would be different, but still close enough not to matter.
It is my opinion that this is wrong, very wrong. While it may not be
apparent all the time, magic in Shadowrun has greatly influenced things. The
Tir Tan Gire(sp) for example would not exist, and that is a big difference.
The NANs would not have been able to reclaim any territory. And, the day to
day things that are not necessarily noticed would be very different.
So I'd say that to state that Shadowrun would be basically the same
without the magic is being incorrect. But that is my opinion.
Just because you have scenarios that don't make much use of magic is
irrelevant, because the magic is there in the background and does influence
things.
Katt Freyson
ICQ UIN 3337155
Montreal, Canada
http://www.dsuper.net/~katt
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:06:36 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Katt Freyson writes:
> Phew, I was hesitant in answering Adam's post due to my recent history,
>but was hoping someone else had caught this. If someone had given this
>phrase to my teacher when I was taking Critical Thinking, they would have
>flunked. Basically he is saying P= !P which is not possible.
I've seen comparision statements in programming that use that logic,
though... :)
(Hmm... did your teacher in Critical Thinking admit the possibility of
paradox? What about unary logic (where only one "choice" or condition is
possible, and so is also the negation of that choice or condition)?)
Fundamental rule though: Don't pick on a person's grammar. :)
> It is my opinion that this is wrong, very wrong. While it may not be
>apparent all the time, magic in Shadowrun has greatly influenced things.
The
>Tir Tan Gire(sp) for example would not exist, and that is a big difference.
>The NANs would not have been able to reclaim any territory. And, the day to
>day things that are not necessarily noticed would be very different.
I dunno. Tir Tangire could still exist without magic (it broke away from the
NAN peacefully, and its squabbles with Cal Free State were solved with
standard military force as well as magic). The NAN could have come about,
given a disastorous population plummet (like, um, that caused by VITAS), and
a strong, populist, and well-equipped resistance movement. Magic just made
it easier. I admit the world picture wouldn't be exactly the same, but the
politcal world as portrayed by SR is not _dependent_ on magic to have come
about.
But IMHO, it wouldn't be SR without the phrase "Never deal with a dragon".
:)
--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:10:21 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Wordman writes:
>I'm satified with current handling of I.E.s. (BTW, did Tom Dowd ever reveal
>why Elves and Dragons don't seem to like each other much before he left SR?
>Did that secret "die" with him?)
Well, didn't the elves try to exterminate the dragons in Earthdawn?
--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 01:16:47 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberware: Where do you put the bateries?
In-Reply-To: <31d9aa7.355134a4@***.com>
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At 12:12 AM 5/7/98 EDT, you wrote: As for the datajack acting like an
>AC/DC cable...consider this...plug in your phone jack....
Well, datajacks should be optical anyhow. :) Electricity, we don't need to
stinkin' electricity!
losthalo@********.comwhileyouarelisteningyourwillingattentionismakingyoumore
andmoreintothepersonyouwanttobecome.
"Some things are true whether you believe in them or not."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:37:15 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Vagabond <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
Content-Type: text/plain
>While I could have worded my statement alot better, I stand by it --
Magic
>isn't all that makes Shadowrun Shadowrun.
>
>-Adam J
I disagree.
first off, What *is* Shadowrun? It's a RPG set in a cyberpunkish
future where magic has returned. Shadowrun defined. What is salt?
Sodium Chloride. Salt defined.
If you took magic away it would not be Shadowrun. It may be an RPG
set in a cyberpunkish future. But that describes at least two other
games. Just like if you took the sodium from salt, it would be
chlorine, not "salt without sodium".
My point being Shadowrun is a sum of many elements, not the least of
which being magic. Take ANY of those elements away and you don't have
Shadowrun.
I see your point about 20th cen earth, Adam, and I understand. But
that's a physical thing- our modern timeline. Of course if that changed
it would still be what it is(however bastardized). Shadowrun is a
fictional, abstract concept. Which is MUCH easier to change or alter.
-Vagabond
"Under wandering stars I've grown"
________________________________________________________
<nomad74@*******.com> <ICQ 4297972>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 01:33:34 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <l03110701b176e40374a2@[100.100.100.10]>
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At 12:49 AM 5/7/98 -0400, you wrote:
(me too)
>I have a mixed vote, I guess. I like what FASA is doing, but I think they
>are doing it to quickly. They did the same thing to Battletech. I was
>perfectly happy before the Fourth Succession War, then they spring that on
>us, and then, God help us, the frigging Clans show up and screwed up
>everything. Same problems with power curve, too.
Not only yes, but hell yes. Not only do I like Btech better without all
the fancier weapons and such of the clans and 3050 Inner Sphere tech, but I
think some of the ideas introduced into SR did the same thing. Both lost
some of the atmosphere they'd worked to build, and also undercut certain
ideas built into the game that I enjoyed...
For instance: Essence was once both a limiting factor on power, -and- a
roleplaying hook for those who pursued power. If you want speed, you have
to get The Wire. You get The Wire, you lose a bit of... you. Every trip
under the knife (and maybe what you have to do to get those trips under the
knife, too) changes you, and not just in the way the cyber makes you a
better killer. Two things undercut this, namely bioware and physical
adepts. Now, you could have faster speed than an unenhanced character
without essence loss (and the personality changes associated with it).
That, for me, is where SR began to lose its grit and become fantasy in a
technologically-advanced setting (yeah, I realize this is a-way back in 1st
ed :).
This is a cyberpunk setting, or was: everything is supposed to come with a
price.
This was even true of magicians, though in a different way. They had their
life pretty much taken up by being a magician. You either dedicated your
life to it, were defined by being a magician, or you were not. If you were
not, ou might do some magic, but you'd never reach anything like your real
potential. Obsession was not really optional.
>One thing I've yet to see if I like is there handling of magic. SRs magic
>system borrowed a lot from "real" magic, and had a very good feel to it.
>>From what I've seen the only person who currently grooves into this feel is
>Steve, who is not a FASA employee. This concerns me a bit, as it may mean
>more new magic rules that originate from a "this would be cool" feeling
>instead of "a logical extension of the magic system would be" kind of
>feeling. We'll see on this one.
I agree that some aspects of the magic system were introduced without
concern for where they might lead, or their effect on the atmosphere of the
game..
>As far as "where do I want to go today?": The path I'd like for SR is
>definately not the one FASA will take. I really like more street level
>plots, and FASA tends towards the Epic.
Exactly. SR started as gritty, street-level, with a little glamour for the
shadowrunners (with Sally depicted as much like the freewheeling AD&D
adventurer who runs from one big treasure score to the next). I mean, they
met in fraggin' clubs to make business deals... and that worked somehow.
"I hear you got a shadowrun cookin' Sally. Haven't heard how hot the fire
is, though."
(/me too)
losthalo@********.comwhileyouarelisteningyourwillingattentionismakingyoumore
andmoreintothepersonyouwanttobecome.
"Some things are true whether you believe in them or not."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 01:37:37 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
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Unknown Senders said (after I snipped the stuff about reduced cost of bonding
objects and karmic theft)
-=-=-=-
He was able to take other people's karma? Was he a free spirit, or were
you a bit loose with the rules? ;)
-=-=-=-
Nope, it was just looked at from the point that "bonding an object normally
cost 'x' amount of karma, of which the magicians in the party would agree".
Of course, none of them had Enchanting or even bothered reading the rules for
such. The Enchanting Test to reduce the karma cost for the bonding was merely
a way of making it cheaper to bond the things.
Binder (Reflex back then) would bond (bind?) a foci to a person appropriately
and charge them what they believed was the cost of such. He claimed the karma
they "gave him" for the bonding, and kept the difference between what was
really needed after the test and the amount they gave him.
Yes, it was evil, but it really wasn't "Theft" in the spiritual/essence drain
sort of approach. It was merely taking the karmic candy from the overgrown
lackwits they had become and were so willing to pay....
As I said, I was -really- evil back then...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 01:41:20 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
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In a message dated 5/7/98 12:14:08 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
robert.watkins@******.COM writes:
> >I'm satified with current handling of I.E.s. (BTW, did Tom Dowd ever reveal
> >why Elves and Dragons don't seem to like each other much before he left
SR?
> >Did that secret "die" with him?)
>
>
> Well, didn't the elves try to exterminate the dragons in Earthdawn?
>
Yes, and one could say that the Sphinx had a lot to do with the outcome of
that discussion....hmmm....could be...
Just exactly who did I mention that too the other day????
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 23:27:16 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Nesius <nesius@******.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <000401bd7974$6f7a5fa0$aa29cdcd@****>
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My 2 cents:
FASA - On/Off Course? Holding my breath until SR3. Then I'll decide wether
or not to give them a thumbs up or the finger.
Magic in SR: I liked the combination of magic and tech. But what really
made the magic click was the very intuitive and slick mechanics for it. No,
they are not perfect, but they were darn good. I'm re-reading the Grim II
now, and I'm still impressed.
Pace of story being pushed by FASA: Agree with Wordman - too fast. Two
year cycle would be better.
I also think that the dragon assissination seemed "forced."
A more "street" oriented approach would be a lot of fun. Unfortuantely, while
FASA's source books go along way towards adding clarity to their world, and
pushing broad story arcs along, they don't do a lot to emphasize, encourage,
and strengthen real roleplaying. It seems like it's all more toys,
background, and rules.
-Rob
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 23:32:59 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Nesius <nesius@******.COM>
Subject: How much down time?
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Questions for the list:
How much downtime do your characters usually have between runs?
How many runs per game year do your groups fit in?
What is the average grade of initiacy that your magically actives attain?
How about average skill rating. ie: Lots of sixes and higher? Sixes and
lower?
Just trying to get a feel for where people are at. Probably all over
the map, but I'd appreciate your input on this.
Thanks,
-Rob
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 02:58:43 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Munchkinism at it's finest
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> Re: Munchkinism at it's finest (Jessica Grota , Tue 0:58)
> For the smaller pieces of stuff (ie, under .75) Delta just isn't worth
> it. Cybereyes, etc are just fine with normal grade, as long as you
> aren't trying to pack every piece of ware in the book into a body.
> err, is Jett one of the acceptable ones, or one of the ones who's packed
> too damn full? I'm a bit groggy from painkillers ATM and I can't quite
> focus... :)
>
>
> The Jettster
I'd say just the opposite- Generally, somebody going in for Customware
is already jammed fulla cyber, most of which they like. Like, say,
Wired 3, a smartlink, some jacks, a sense or two... But I guess, then,
you ARE tryingto pack in "all the ware in the book". :)
Replacing the Wires with a custom grade is out of the question, cost
wise. If it isn't, I don't want to hear about it (I'm jealous)....
Getting a really high grade smartlink, eyes, and jacks is CHEESE,
comparitively, and leaves room for some more custsom small, fun,
AFFORDABLE stuff. Then, if you DO ever save up the cash, you replace
the wires. Even better if its easier / cheaper surgery becasue of the
reduced essence cost of new implant. But big custom items are just far
to expensive (even more so with surgery and recovery), normally.
As a basic rule, you can simply look at an items essence cost per yen
cost (E/Y). The higher this is, the better to get it upgraded, if you
can. The smartlink, at .0002, tops the list, matched by the level 1
datjack, followed closely by dermal 1, other data and chipjacks,
platicbones, radios, and muscles. Custum grade Wired reflexes and
cyberlimbs cost a FORTUNE in cash compared to the essence saved, coming
in at .00001 for limbs and wired 3. So, for the cost, a custom
smartlink saves 5 TIMES the essence of custom wired 3. Wired 2 isn't
much better.
Of course, when you go all up to delta, theres no way to "shop smart"
like this, and you just get what you need / can afford.
-Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 02:59:02 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Cyber and Body Index
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>> Re: Cyber and Body Index
(was Re: Munchkinism at it's finest) (Gurth , Tue 5:30)
> Hardly anything is available
> except what's in SRII, the Grimoire, and one or two other books subject to
> GM approval. All the gear will only be for sale once the dates in the book
> come by in the campaign -- no SSC until late 2050/early 2051, bioware
> won't be available until 2052, and so on.
>
The knowledge in the grimoire, as a "Manual of Practical Thamaturgy",
should not be openly availble, either, IMO. It can lead to people
playing them exclusively, and is one reason we've allowed characters to
start with items from Shadowtech in our 2054-5 game. YMMV.
> Now all we need to do is convince the other half of the group that this
> is the best thing to do to solve the mess we're in...
>
The above does not invalidate that this may indeed be good for your
game, although I'd cut the grimoire stuff for now, and wait for SR3, to
keep "adaptation" to a minimum (or decide to chuck SR3 after seeing
it). Straight BBB IS pretty fun...
-Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 02:59:17 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Non-running sources of income
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> Re: Non-running sources of income (was Re: Talismongering) (Nexx , Tue 11:28)
>
> > <SNIP>
> > > This reminds me of something I was wondering.
> > >
> > > How many people have their characters do work on the side?
>
> I had one character who ran a "free" clinic. While his income from
> running paid his bills, people in the neighborhood would sometimes give
> him stuff for his magical and mundane healing methods.
Mongoose, and eventually almost half the Chicago team, did volunteer
work at a similar clinic in Chicago's Noose. Of course, with no legal
status, the work was risky- OTOH, it was the easiest way to get good
medical care in the noose, and the contacts came in quite handy. It
also was a great plot hook to get us involved with some awful event or
another- we were essentially part time freelance, unliscened, FRT
paramedics in the noose working for a community (or otherwise?) funded
clinic that got its start in the mess ensuing the Sears tower blowup,
the night of rage, and the fact that most hospitals were unwilling to
admit those with no proven SIN.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 03:00:49 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Fencing vs. Street Index
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>
> Fencing vs. Street Index (Joshua Bell , Tue 17:58)
> what about this:
>
> "Optional" Runners get to multiply an item by its STREET INDEX, then they
> start at 30% of that and negotiate!
>
> (Please understand that this is mearly a sugestion and I don't know its
> effect on a real game because I just thought it up)
We've done that sometimes (when the GM feels genrous, and its an item
that can be sold quickly on the streets). It can be pretty profitable
(and fair) for thoings like stollen weapon foci, whic otherwise get
stored away until used by some team mage, pissing of the Samuria who
damn well KNOWS thier street price STARTS at 300K.
In fact, if you have a line on certain items LEGALLY, fencing them
ILLEGALLY can be a very profitable (but likely very illegal) source of
income. For example, the street index on cyanide is 5, and anybody with
a pest control permit and a little chemisty skill could churn the stuff
out. Ah, the beuty of fake ID's.
-Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 03:01:18 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Sourcebooks (was Re: FASA's On/Off Course?)
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> Re: FASA's On/Off Course? ("Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman" , Tue
18:16)
> > Why we won't see many area sourcebooks.
> >
> > It's simple, FASA painted themselves in a corner with Shadowrun in
> > that everything happens in your home city.
Not IMO. Our characters travel a LOT, and "home city" tends to loose
meaning pretty fast. We've liked / used most of the sourcebooks, but a
"genric travle guide", would be better for us. NAGRL fills some gaps,
but leaves many. Just because all the FASA stuf says "Seattle", doesn't
mean people play Seattle- similar features can be adapted for plots set
n any city. And having EVERYTHING happen in your town starts to stretch
thin pretty fast.
-Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 03:01:47 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
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> Re: Talismongering (Jessica Grota , Tue 20:36)
> Oh, yeah. Jett is perfect for bodyguard work. She can take on astral OR
> mundane bad guys without missing a beat. Of course, she's got that
> ever-present "Ground your HellBlast Here" sign on her back...but hey,
> that's a fair trade.
No problem- Hellblasts can't be grounded, since astral mages can't cast
DM's. :)
Seriously, though, how / why is Jett dual natured? That is more
bizarre than the deltaware, IMO. MUCH more bizarre.
-Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 04:00:07 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
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This is silly.
Of course SR is ON course.
Maybe not the course some of us would like, but hey, it's FASA's game.
FASA is a corp.
They're going to go with what the majority of the paying public wants.
FASA has gotten a TON of flack over the IE's Horrors and other assorted
high-power nasties
They responded by toning them down.
Please note - IE's and Horrors have NOT been removed from the canon SR
world!
If you want to use these in your game, feel free, you are still well within
the canon of SR.
As for the Bugs, c'mon, we can't even control the mosquito problem now.
Do you think they're ALL gone in the Sixth world, now that they're
intelligent and magical?!?
Bug City was an excellent setting, but it's been out for several years.
FASA has always kept their game worlds moving along, starting with
Battletech.
As RL time progresses, so does game time.
IMO you couldn't leave a problem like Bug City alone for too long and keep
it realistic.
The UCAS govt. could only keep the quarantine for so long.
As for magic. I don't feel that current supplements have reduced it one
bit.
Altered the feel of things, yes. The "Wild Surge" in CFS, and other
elements have altered the balance of magic vs. tech, but magic is still an
integral part of the SR universe.
Lest you think that I'm an unabashed FASA-ass-kisser (Like Bull ;-)) there
are a few elements of the game that I am NOT happy with.
The "Year of" stuff has the potential to become overdone.
However to be fair, it does seem to be working for FASA.
It certainly allows them to tailor their source materials for the year
around a central theme, and as long as it keeps working, I'll keep buying.
I HATE the "Adventure Track" system, even though I can't think of a better
way to allow the maximum number of people to get the maximum use out of a
single game supplement.
On a similar note, I'm tired of adventures that do NOT focus on runners.
The Missions book was largely useless for me, as I don't have anyone
playing a cop, a fed, etc.
The adventures were solid, but of limited use.
P&P was a serious letdown.
I LOVE paranormal critters! Ever since FAS came out with the Monster Manual
.. er I mean PAoNA ;-) I have used a TON of critters in my games.
I was really looking forward to a NEW critters book, and hoped that P&P
would deliver.
It didn't giving us a couple stupid bugs, and bats, and completely glossing
over the idea of a rigger controlled critter! (A concept I have run whole
campaigns on!!!)
So IMO while FASA (of course) has room for improvement, the game itself is
solid, and moving forward.
Where exactly it's going remains to be seen.
But that's half the fun anyway! ;-)
Tinner
.sig nuked by HD crash.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 20:04:16 +1200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Quoth Wafflemeisters (2002 07-05-98):
>> Re: Talismongering (Jessica Grota , Tue 20:36)
>
>
>> Oh, yeah. Jett is perfect for bodyguard work. She can take on astral
OR
>> mundane bad guys without missing a beat. Of course, she's got that
>> ever-present "Ground your HellBlast Here" sign on her back...but hey,
>> that's a fair trade.
>
> No problem- Hellblasts can't be grounded, since astral mages
can't cast
>DM's. :)
> Seriously, though, how / why is Jett dual natured? That is
more
>bizarre than the deltaware, IMO. MUCH more bizarre
It was under the 'Nagual Totem' sheet Jessica posted a few days ago. As
part of her totem dis/advantages, Jett is *always* assensing. Helpful
in some situations, but also a big 'Nuke Me - PLEASE!'
Danyel Woods
9604801@********.ac.nz
'Are you deliberately trying to drive me insane?'
'The universe is already mad. Anything else would be
redundant.'
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:41:17 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the Single
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980506171213.0957f78c@****.fbiz.com> from "Erik
Jameson" at May 6, 98 08:10:27 pm
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And verily, did Erik Jameson hastily scribble thusly...
|
|At 04:34 PM 5/6/98 -0600, you wrote:
|
|>I know how you feel. It makes me want to start a thread about... back
|>in SR1, the rules were.. or back before SR, we had to write our own RPG
|>using T$R rules as the base.
|
|Ah, SR1 and autosuccesses and variable staging. Hey, I bet the kiddies
|haven't ever heard of 3L1 or 5D4 damage codes, eh? Now THAT complicated
|combat.
Ay, but it were a lot more fun back then.
When someone shot a vindicator minigun at you in the old days, you KNEW
about it. And the DRAIN codes! None of this f/2S bunkum.
We had REAL drain codes back then, like L1, S3, and I challenge ANYONE not
to suffer some drain after the dreaded D4....
*sigh*
It's just not the same anymore.
|>Maybe we should start our own rest home.
|
|Hey, it could be like Gurth's Stairs, but only us old folks are allowed in.
| We could play shuffle board and cribbage and gum our meals!
Sign me up.
|>(Who played back when there were TWO german states.)
|
|You know what the sad thing is? There are plenty of people on this list
|who simply have no recollection of living like that, who only know about
|the Cold War from books and school. Some of us geezers actually grew up
|with the spectre of the Red Menance and Global Thermonuclear War.
|
|Ah, enough of this OT stuff. Somebody, set up the Old Folks Home so us
|gezzers have some place to rest our weary bones and soak our teeth.
Yup. Although my teeth aren't QUITE that bad yet...
:)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:46:24 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the Single
In-Reply-To: <6b809db.35512c2a@***.com> from "MgkellyMP5" at May 6,
98 11:36:08 pm
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And verily, did MgkellyMP5 hastily scribble thusly...
|
|In a message dated 98-05-06 20:16:15 EDT, you write:
|
|<< Ah, SR1 and autosuccesses and variable staging. Hey, I bet the kiddies
| haven't ever heard of 3L1 or 5D4 damage codes, eh? Now THAT complicated
| combat.
| >>
|
|and it was a pain in the ass too! '-2 to Power Level/ +1 Wound Level and it
|makes the damage code of a Browning Max-Power with Firepower ammo....'
|personally, i was very relieved when they started using 2 as the Staging
|number for everything in SR2.
The poor man's deluded. He's been brainwashed by the SR2 new order.
Get 'im lads!
Personally, when they took away the staging, they took away one hell of a
lot of the variety that went with the game.
*BANG*
You need 12 successes to totally clear that damage....
(Fortunately, you had 6 auto successes in your armour, but that's besides
the point...)
*ahhhh* Those were the days....
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 05:11:49 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkinism at it's finest
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Once upon a time, Wafflemeisters wrote;
> Replacing the Wires with a custom grade is out of the question, cost
>wise. If it isn't, I don't want to hear about it (I'm jealous)....
<snip the rest>
sigh. Replacing wires is out of the question period. It's one of those
one shot type of implantations. Didn't anybody fully read Shadowtech?
sigh again.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 05:27:31 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
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Once upon a time, Ereskanti wrote;
>> Well, didn't the elves try to exterminate the dragons in Earthdawn?
>>
>Yes, and one could say that the Sphinx had a lot to do with the outcome of
>that discussion....hmmm....could be...
The Sphinx was created to look over Theran's rule. Nothing to do
with dragon's there. Thera has had trouble with dragons before but Thera
is also a mixed nation and not Elven. Sphinx has just sat there since its
creation. The rulers of Thera do not know if the Spinx will ever move but
they still watch what they do (getting a little braver with time).
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 05:32:40 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
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Once upon a time, Robert Nesius wrote;
>A more "street" oriented approach would be a lot of fun. Unfortunately,
while
>FASA's source books go along way towards adding clarity to their world, and
>pushing broad story arcs along, they don't do a lot to emphasize, encourage,
>and strengthen real roleplaying. It seems like it's all more toys,
>background, and rules.
I'm curious, how is a game supplement supposed to emphasize,
encourage, and strengthen real roleplaying? That sounds more like the
players responsibility. Games are just supposed to present rules and
background for you to do this in. No book can make a munchkin play by the
rules or make someone roleplay when they are not going to.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
"CYNIC, n. A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are,
not as they ought to be."
-The Devil's Dictionary, Ambrose Bierce
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 05:44:00 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Traveling Quiz
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Once upon a time, Wafflemeisters wrote;
>> > Why we won't see many area sourcebooks.
>> >
>> > It's simple, FASA painted themselves in a corner with Shadowrun in
>> > that everything happens in your home city.
>
> Not IMO. Our characters travel a LOT, and "home city" tends to
loose
>meaning pretty fast. We've liked / used most of the sourcebooks, but a
>"genric travle guide", would be better for us. NAGRL fills some gaps,
>but leaves many. Just because all the FASA stuf says "Seattle", doesn't
>mean people play Seattle- similar features can be adapted for plots set
>n any city. And having EVERYTHING happen in your town starts to stretch
>thin pretty fast.
I think that you're an exception to the norm. I think the most obvious
way to find out what happens most often is to poll everyone.
Does your campaign involve travel, how often, and how far and where is it
centered?
My campaign does involve travel frequently but rarely beyond CAS borders.
Any adventure can usually occur around the greater Carolina areas (which
can be considered an extended home area). The home city is the greater
Charlotte Sprawl.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 02:59:41 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
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> Re: FASA's On/Off Course? (Panther , Tue 9:33)
>
> > Does anyone remember the
> > little slogan you see about Shadowrun in the game shop posters?
> > "Where man meets machine in an age of magic". The way things are
> > going, I wouldn't be surprised if Haley's Comet takes all of the
> > magic with it when it leaves.
You admit to playing less SR thanothergames (what others?), and more
mages / magic campaigns when you do. Do you have something AGAINST more
"mundane" campaigns / characters / games? I personally LIKE to see a
non-mage character do something useful and important (besides protecting
the mage).
> If it does, I guarantee right now that I'll stop buying SR stuff and
> keep what I've got. The original premise for SR (IMHO) was a
> cyberpunk game where magic was just beginning to return to the earth.
> The way the game's bg is written, you simply CAN'T get rid of the
> magic and still have it be SR. You can LIMIT it, yes. But if it
> totally gets removed from the game you no longer have SR, you have CP
> 2020.
I'm sure FASA is not on any sort of general "anti-magic" kick. They
mayhave been spending a while emphasizing major NON-MAGICAL events, and
letting magic remain at a "steady state", which has not happened almost
since the games introduction. Hell, people STILL find new tricks for
old magic in the basic book.
Second, really powerful magic (including mage PC's who are better than
99% of corp sec magic forces) make for problematic world developement,
so some balance needs to be restored to the magic system. Some magic
plotlines / rules were introduced with poor consideration for larger
eventual impact, and need to be refined.
>
> > A [magic] de-emphasization turns this
> > into another Rifts, where we buy more books just to see what new
> > toys we've been provided with, rather than what it was intended to
> > be: a point where both magic and technology, two otherwise
> > irreconcilable forces, were both necessary to get shit done.
Another "Rifts"? As opposed to another "Mage: the Assension"?
:) As
for the "new gadget / book" factor- how many mages go WITHOUT intiating
for more than a few runs? About 0%? I'd say thats a hefty "new gadget
factor" that should be looked at. Just because 90% of the munchi mage
stuff is all in one book doesn't mean its better for the game....
In actuality, creating new areas of interest removes no utility from
mages, it just shows how other developements are just as interesting /
threatening / important.
New mundane gear is often doubly imbalancing in the hands of mages, and
should be done with more concern for "interest" than power escalation.
I'm pretty sure it will be.
There is also no evidence that future TECH (and general rule) revisons
won't be just as limiting as future MAGIC revisions. AFAIK, to the
contrary. SR3 could do a LOT in that area.
>
> Not only that, but by forcing us to have more firepower and ppl on a
> team, it attempts to force us to play merc campaigns
>
Well, if deckers and riggers were more common than mages, which as PC's
AND published NPC's, they ain't, and less of a pain to use (say, as
quick, simple, and half as effective as mages), they would fill many of
the role mages do now: scouting, nonviolent security nuetralization,
misidirection, intellegence, and concealment.
Also, Mundane =/= machine gun toting yahoo (ie, merc sterotype, which
you have not gone beyond here), and saying so is offensive to people who
play intellegent mundanes who prefer non lethal (even SOCIAL) solutions
to problems. Iv'e seen plenty a mage who's generic solution was "I'm
invisible, spell-locked. I Cast Fireball."
> > > >One OFF
> > >
> > > Two with mine.
> > Three..
> Make it four
Two ON, I believe. From what I know, the arco shutdown stuff ROCKS,
and has some very cool "larger implications". Could make bug city look
like- well, a bunch of stupid bugs.
-Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:38:15 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners
In-Reply-To: <6b809db.35512c2a@***.com>
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MgkellyMP5 said on 23:36/ 6 May 98...
> << Ah, SR1 and autosuccesses and variable staging. Hey, I bet the kiddies
> haven't ever heard of 3L1 or 5D4 damage codes, eh? Now THAT complicated
> combat.
> >>
>
> and it was a pain in the ass too! '-2 to Power Level/ +1 Wound Level and it
> makes the damage code of a Browning Max-Power with Firepower ammo....'
??? Firepower(tm) ammo only added +2 to the Power, turning 4M2 (which
sucked) to 6M2. You must be thinking of flechette, which IIRC was -1
Power, +1 Staging *checks SR1* yep.
> personally, i was very relieved when they started using 2 as the Staging
> number for everything in SR2.
It disappointed me when I looked at the damage rules in SRII... I _liked_
the variable staging, it gave weapons slightly more ways in which to be
different, and my experience is that it didn't make combat slower than in
second edition. With either you have to divide the successes by something
and then stage up or down accordingly, it's just that the number varies
instead of being a fixed 2.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:38:16 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Encounters
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Cobra said on 2:02/ 7 May 98...
> >And we need to keep it simple -- Sprawl Sites has half-adventures, not
> >encounters. Hmm... is this an idea for the next PW book?
>
> It's not that simple. If it's only encounters, it can turn into random
> monsters... If this can arise, I think it could be interesting to give
> simple plots which can become bigger or keep small. A good exemple could
> be like this :
[snip example]
I like this... It allows for very simple encounters where all the runners
have to do is solve a small problem (or even do nothing at all and wait
until it goes away), or can get deeply involved if they choose to.
Should we write this up into a full net.book?
MC23 said on 22:04/ 6 May 98...
> I think we've found a good example of how some of these things should be
> set up. A window dressing option should be presented as well. Sometimes
> is nice to have background that has no plot attatched.
Another good idea.
> Gurth, are you ready to be editor to a net book with a general list
> contibution. Hell, I might even add something.
Sure, I've done it before and I'll probably do it again. However, there is
the minor matter that these things usually get bogged down for lots of
reasons and thus take very long to get finished :/
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:38:16 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Cyber and Body Index
In-Reply-To: <355169C6.3FA2@**********.net>
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Wafflemeisters said on 2:59/ 7 May 98...
> The knowledge in the grimoire, as a "Manual of Practical
Thamaturgy",
> should not be openly availble, either, IMO.
I thought about that at first too, but after looking at it a bit better I
didn't really see anything wrong with it; all it'll be used for are the
spells and rules clarifications. Same with Awakenings: I will use its
rules for things like spell signatures and focus addiction, but the
in-game texts aren't available until '57.
> It can lead to people playing them exclusively, and is one reason we've
> allowed characters to start with items from Shadowtech in our 2054-5
> game. YMMV.
I'm stickin with the dates in the books, and probably make items available
slightly before the earliest date, but likely add a few unlisted flaws to
the occasional item, to represent it being a pre-release, test version.
> > Now all we need to do is convince the other half of the group that this
> > is the best thing to do to solve the mess we're in...
This succeeded. Even the player who was the main cause of the troubles
agreed that it was a good idea to start again. he only didn't like not
having all those toys he's gotten used to :)
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:38:16 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Talismongering
In-Reply-To: <35516A6B.5520@**********.net>
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Wafflemeisters said on 3:01/ 7 May 98...
> > Oh, yeah. Jett is perfect for bodyguard work. She can take on astral OR
> > mundane bad guys without missing a beat. Of course, she's got that
> > ever-present "Ground your HellBlast Here" sign on her back...but hey,
> > that's a fair trade.
>
> No problem- Hellblasts can't be grounded, since astral mages can't cast
> DM's. :)
Hellblast is a combat spell :) And it's even multi-functional when cast
from the astral: it'll A) likely kill the target and anyone nearby, and B)
help the caster commit suicide *grin*
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:38:16 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: How much down time?
In-Reply-To: <v03110709b17704dd295d@[204.202.55.216]>
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Robert Nesius said on 23:32/ 6 May 98...
> Questions for the list:
>
> How much downtime do your characters usually have between runs?
Up until now we haven't really kept track of dates, it was more like "It's
summer," "It's winter," and so on. I'm planning to keep the actual date in
mind a bit more in the upcoming campaign, and I'm estimating there'll be
about one or two months down time between runs.
> How many runs per game year do your groups fit in?
See above.
> What is the average grade of initiacy that your magically actives attain?
In the last group of PCs (half of which died recently) there were two
grade 1 and one grade 2 initiates.
> How about average skill rating. ie: Lots of sixes and higher? Sixes and
> lower?
Most were around 3 to 5 in the last group. Almost nobody goes for sixes in
skills, instead choosing to take more skills at lower levels. One or two
players take the approach of "these are my primary skills, I'll give them
6 points plus a concentration" while the others tend to diversify more.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 06:54:10 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Gregory Family <wvyc@**.NET.AU>
Subject: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
In-Reply-To: <199805071037.MAA01627@*****.xs4all.nl>
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At 12:38 7/05/98 +0100, Gurth wrote:
>> Ah, SR1 and autosuccesses and variable staging. Hey, I bet the kiddies
>> haven't ever heard of 3L1 or 5D4 damage codes, eh? Now THAT
>>complicated combat.
[snip]
>It disappointed me when I looked at the damage rules in SRII... I _liked_
>the variable staging, it gave weapons slightly more ways in which to be
>different, and my experience is that it didn't make combat slower than in
>second edition. With either you have to divide the successes by something
>and then stage up or down accordingly, it's just that the number varies
>instead of being a fixed 2.
I liked the old rules better as well, for a bundle of reasons. Matter of
fact, we still use the three-part variable staging rules in our campaign.
Anyone else out there been faithful to the ole first ed. rules? =)
Cheers.
Tauri.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:34:18 +0
Reply-To: msteffens@********.ie
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Martin Steffens <msteffens@********.IE>
Organization: Arthouse
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners or ShadowGramps
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980506143404.266fa06a@****.fbiz.com>
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On 6 May 98 at 17:49, Erik Jameson wrote:
> But reading this, I suddenly felt like an old man...it's just so
> rare that I deal with anyone under 21 anymore unless they are asking
> "Can I take your order please?" that this "sudden" burt of youth
on
> RN makes me feel ancient...
>
> Hey, maybe we should start an old man's club on RN, gotta be at
> least 25 or older. You could put "RN Geriatric Brigade" or
> something in your .sig and be allowed one post per thread going on
> about "back in my day, we didn't have the Internet, we had to read
> RN with smoke signals..."
Gods, I was feeling pretty fine untill I read this... darn I almost
managed to block the fact that I'm going to be 30 next year from my
mind, and judging by the fact that I haven't needed my walking stick
for some time now, it worked. But suddenly it all came back...
SR1 fire arms rules are better, pre-IE world seemed so much
cleaner... if I could only find back my first ed rule book.
Write me in for the Fossile Club, and get me a pretty
nurse to tuck me in at night.
Grumble.. just rejoined the list after two years of absence and now
this...
Martin Steffens
IT co-ordinator
Arthouse Multimedia Centre for the Arts
Curved Street, Temple Bar, Dublin 2, Ireland
phone: +353 (1) 6056800 fax: +353 (1) 6056801
e-mail: msteffens@********.ie
www: http://www.arthouse.ie
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:49:07 +0
Reply-To: msteffens@********.ie
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Martin Steffens <msteffens@********.IE>
Organization: Arthouse
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <199805051517.RAA05470@****.mhnet.fr>
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On 5 May 98 at 17:24, Cobra wrote:
> I totally agree. What made SR really innovative was that magic was
> well developed and managed. I tend to think that Mike doesn't like
> much those magic threads and, IMO, it makes SR storyline a bit flat.
> If the dragon heart trilogy was cool, it seems to be the end of the
> old SR line... When I have a look at hte different storyline
> contributors, I see the best with Nigel Findley. Perhaps SR has gone
> with his death...
Like others I think it's more a case of getting things back into
balance again. I remember that a lot of people on the list tended to
rant a lot about the IE influence, and I for once are quite happy
that they've been (or are going to) taken down a peg or two. It was
slowly turning into a Magical Mistery Tour and the world always
seemed to be on the brick of extinsion by some kind of magical
monster. It reminded me a lot of the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying
Game.
Personally I think that humanity (including all other species) was
nasty enough to keep the life of a shadowrunner interesting.
Enough ramblings in the style of "In my time we had some REAL
shadowrunners, we didn't need mr pansy Harlequin to safe our buns,
rant, rant"
Add one to the ON camp.
Martin Steffens
IT co-ordinator
Arthouse Multimedia Centre for the Arts
Curved Street, Temple Bar, Dublin 2, Ireland
phone: +353 (1) 6056800 fax: +353 (1) 6056801
e-mail: msteffens@********.ie
www: http://www.arthouse.ie
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 05:12:11 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matthew Waddilove <m_waddilove@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Vehicle Economy (was RE: What is a CF?)
Content-Type: text/plain
"Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman" wrote
>
<Huge SNIP>
>
>I'm still trying to figure out where a man-sized or smaller rotor drone
>fits 120 liters of fuel.
>
I've got other problems with fuel like why does it take 1 CF to hold 50L
of fuel because
1 CF = 0.125m^3 and
50 L = 0.05m^3
so where does the other .075m^3 go????
I'm not saying that I want 125L from 1 CF (well it would be nice:) ) but
loosing 75L of volume seems extreme.
I'll just do some calculations to see if I can come up with a more
reasonable value.
1 CF = a .5 m cube(for simplicities sake I use a cube)
so if we take 2.5 cm from every side of the cube for mountings and the
fuel line we get a tank that's a .45m cube which yields a volume of
.091125 m^3 ~= 90L
I've been playing with other figure's but I'll leave it there so as not
to bore you all.
what does everyone think?
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:17:31 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Airwasp <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: How much down time?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 5/7/98 6:31:18 AM !!!First Boot!!!, nesius@******.COM
writes:
> Questions for the list:
>
> How much downtime do your characters usually have between runs?
Normally a week in between games, though after some of the "larger" runs, I'll
extend it even longer, such as a three week downtime for last Sunday's game.
> How many runs per game year do your groups fit in?
20 to 30.
> What is the average grade of initiacy that your magically actives attain?
8+
> How about average skill rating. ie: Lots of sixes and higher? Sixes and
> lower?
6-10's
> Just trying to get a feel for where people are at. Probably all over
> the map, but I'd appreciate your input on this.
All over the world.
> Thanks,
> -Rob
You are welcome Rob, I wish I could have been playing with you guys so many
years ago.
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 08:20:55 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyberware Power Sources (Was Re: Cyberware: Where do you put
the bateries?)
In-Reply-To: <Version.32.19980507035554.00f7dd00@****.mhnet.fr>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> That makes me think about an evolution of SR world... Magic drains energies
> from astral quite easily and with great potential. If you magic and
> technological devices to harvest those energies, that can give you great
> possibilities.
didn't they talk about thin in one of the orrigonal sourcebooks? I seem to
remember a post about a powerplant that tried to use a locked physiacl
manipulation with the electrical elemental effect to creat "free power",
but failed because of astral pollution. Anyone else?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Czar Eggbert
Ruler, Dark Side of the Moon.
homepage: http://travel.to/czareggbert.empire
mailto: czregbrt@*********.edu
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"I lived my life in a ship in a bottle in a world in a glass jar..."
-Mike Fontaine
"CRACK! SMASH! SHATTER!"
-Helen Stunkard
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:49:52 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.16.19980507204549.2c97cd50@*******.cs.net.au> from "The
Gregory Family" at May 7, 98 06:54:10 am
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And verily, did The Gregory Family hastily scribble thusly...
|I liked the old rules better as well, for a bundle of reasons. Matter of
|fact, we still use the three-part variable staging rules in our campaign.
|Anyone else out there been faithful to the ole first ed. rules? =)
Yup....
Me for one.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 07:39:43 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: ILs
In-Reply-To: <199805070216.UAA10207@******.carl.org> from "MC23" at May
6,
98 10:13:54 pm
Content-Type: text
MC23 wrote:
/
/ Once upon a time, Erik Jameson wrote;
/
/ >But reading this, I suddenly felt like an old man...it's just so rare that
/ >I deal with anyone under 21 anymore unless they are asking "Can I take your
/ >order please?" that this "sudden" burt of youth on RN makes me feel
/ >ancient...
/
/ I've been a club boi for half my life now so I still deal with young
/ uns'. Now realizing they are all too young to date makes me feel really
/ ancient.
/
/ Is this becoming an Immortal Listmembers thread now?
/
/ Damn IL's are behind everything!
Yes, yes we are ;)
(Think about it.)
-David
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 07:43:37 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <199805062324.RAA09370@******.carl.org> from "Nexx" at May
6,
98 06:23:12 pm
Content-Type: text
Nexx wrote:
/
/ ----------
/ > From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
/
/ > While I could have worded my statement alot better, I stand by it --
/ Magic
/ > isn't all that makes Shadowrun Shadowrun.
/
/ True, but its a major ingredient in what makes our Shadowrun our
/ Shadowrun. You take it out, and it tastes like a cake where someone
/ forgot the baking soda.
I'd use a different analogy. Shadowrun without magic would be like
chocolate cake without chocolate. It would still be a good yellow
cake. If you were jonesing for chocolate cake you would be very
dissapointed. But if you didn't know that chocolate was an option
you would be happy with the yellow cake.
-David
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:51:32 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the
SingleShadowrunner(thanks))
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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Erik Jameson wrote:
>Ah, SR1 and autosuccesses and variable staging. Hey, I bet the kiddies
>haven't ever heard of 3L1 or 5D4 damage codes, eh? Now THAT complicated
>combat.
Hey - I'm not a fogey yet (23, for the record), and I prefer the SR1
damage staging... Besides, anybody who's read SRII from cover to cover
has heard of SR1 staging. ;-)
>>(Who played back when there were TWO german states.)
>
>You know what the sad thing is? There are plenty of people on this list
>who simply have no recollection of living like that, who only know about
>the Cold War from books and school. Some of us geezers actually grew up
>with the spectre of the Red Menance and Global Thermonuclear War.
Heh - I remember watching WarGames for the first time. Back then
my computer was a C64 and I was still disgusted by how *stupid*
the movie was.
James Ojaste
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 07:51:54 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: [OT] Nuances of Language
In-Reply-To: <199805062042.OAA21983@******.carl.org> from "Nexx" at May
6,
98 03:40:50 pm
Content-Type: text
Nexx wrote:
/
/ ----------
/ > From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
/
/ > But Shadowrun would still be
/ > Shadowrun if it didn't have magic, it would just be different.
/
/ Adam, I respect your work on this list greatly, but that has got to be
/ the most moronic phrase in the entire English Language, and likely quite a
/ few others. X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
/ different.
But isn't language used to symbolically represent a world that's
perceived abstractly?
And if you'll look closely the top of an X looks like the top of a
Y. So a Y is a different looking X, and vice versa. So from one
viewpoint, "X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
different." works.
Just because your perspective is different then Adam's doesn't make
Adam's perspective any less significant.
Are we having fun yet :)
-David
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:58:21 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: How much down time?
In-Reply-To: <v03110709b17704dd295d@[204.202.55.216]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Questions for the list:
Answer for you... :)
>How much downtime do your characters usually have between runs?
Approximately 1 month.
>How many runs per game year do your groups fit in?
From 10 to 15.
>What is the average grade of initiacy that your magically actives attain?
After 3 years, two are grade 5 (in a group) and one is grade 3 (alone). The
first campaign only made an initiate (grade 0) and the third campaign is
low power (but one of them will perhaps become grade 0).
>How about average skill rating. ie: Lots of sixes and higher? Sixes and
>lower?
Many have skills around 4 or 5. Usually, each of the PCs has a skill at 7
or 8.
>Just trying to get a feel for where people are at. Probably all over
>the map, but I'd appreciate your input on this.
>
>Thanks,
You're welcome.
- Cobra.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:05:57 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <runefo@***.uio.no>
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Organization: The University of Oslo
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.16.19980507204549.2c97cd50@*******.cs.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
>
> At 12:38 7/05/98 +0100, Gurth wrote:
> >> Ah, SR1 and autosuccesses and variable staging. Hey, I bet the kiddies
> >> haven't ever heard of 3L1 or 5D4 damage codes, eh? Now THAT
> >>complicated combat.
Heh heh heh.. I always like pro assassins using those 3L1 guns.
They threw enough dice at you that they always got .. about 3.. more
successes than the defender. Armor reducing power was a good idea,
though, rather than automatic resistance successes.
(Heretic, I know. I'm not *THAT* old, just 26.).
--
Fade
And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:13:04 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
David Buehrer wrote:
>/ > But Shadowrun would still be
>/ > Shadowrun if it didn't have magic, it would just be different.
>/
>/ Adam, I respect your work on this list greatly, but that has got to
>be
>/ the most moronic phrase in the entire English Language, and likely quite a
>/ few others. X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
>/ different.
>
>But isn't language used to symbolically represent a world that's
>perceived abstractly?
Perceived abstractly? I don't quite follow...
>And if you'll look closely the top of an X looks like the top of a
>Y. So a Y is a different looking X, and vice versa. So from one
>viewpoint, "X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
>different." works.
Yes, unless having Y is a requirement for being X. Take that
sentence, replacing X with "a cube" and Y with "six sides".
"A cube would still be a cube if it didn't have six sides". Not
so... Since Y is a defining characteristic of X in this case, the
statement is not necessarily true (damn char set doesn't have
symbolic logic symbols, or I'd write it out :-).
>Just because your perspective is different then Adam's doesn't make
>Adam's perspective any less significant.
No, but it remains to be shown that magic is not a defining
characteristic of Shadowrun...
>Are we having fun yet :)
Eh. What choice do we have?
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:26:05 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Vehicle Economy (was RE: What is a CF?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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Ereskanti wrote:
>I'm still trying to figure out where a man-sized or smaller rotor drone
>fits 120 liters of fuel.
>-=-=-=-=-
[snip]
>As for the fuel, yeah, the numbers don't match quite right, i know...we
>argued
>out compressed fuel tanks (which I once made rules for...Wordman, if you read
>this, do you still have those as well? They were in the Nagee back when
>Chris
>did them)....
Well, 120 liters of fuel is 1.5m x 20cm x 40cm - which will fit into
a man-sized drone with a little effort. You could hang a 0.125m^3 box
but it would be pretty heavy (assuming gasoline, it'd mass 0.7 kg/L =
87.5 kg).
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:29:32 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Vehicle Economy (was RE: What is a CF?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Matthew Waddilove wrote:
>"Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman" wrote
>>I'm still trying to figure out where a man-sized or smaller rotor drone
>>fits 120 liters of fuel.
>
>I've got other problems with fuel like why does it take 1 CF to hold 50L
>of fuel because
>1 CF = 0.125m^3 and
>50 L = 0.05m^3
>so where does the other .075m^3 go????
Haven't you heard of "dark matter"? The astrophysicists just forgot
to add in the missing volume from their fuel tanks! :-)
>I'm not saying that I want 125L from 1 CF (well it would be nice:) ) but
>loosing 75L of volume seems extreme.
>
>I'll just do some calculations to see if I can come up with a more
>reasonable value.
>
>1 CF = a .5 m cube(for simplicities sake I use a cube)
>so if we take 2.5 cm from every side of the cube for mountings and the
>fuel line we get a tank that's a .45m cube which yields a volume of
>.091125 m^3 ~= 90L
So a reasonable approximation is just halving the CF cost. 1 CF
per 100L.
>I've been playing with other figure's but I'll leave it there so as not
>to bore you all.
>
>what does everyone think?
Sure. It doesn't bother me much either way.
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:53:28 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TalonMail <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Shadowrun without magic?
Mime-Version: 1.0
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There have been many posts and speculations on the list recently to the effect
that "FASA is reducing/removing magic from Shadowrun." Speaking as the guy who
is hard at work on the Magic chapter for Shadowrun 3 and what will probably be
the largest Magic Sourcebook Shadowrun has ever seen, I have to tell you that
nothing could be further from the truth.
FASA and Mike Mulvihill know full well that the magic/fantasy elements of
Shadowrun are some of the game's greatest strengths, that seperated SR from
all the other "cyber/dark future" RPGs. There is NO plan to remove magic from
SR.
There is an effort to balance the fantasy elements with more technology,
politics, corporate action, and such. As people have pointed out, there was a
point where every major event in the Sixth World was triggered by a
spirit/dragon/immortal elf, and that took away from the other things that are
cool about Shadowrun, like the Matrix, cybertech, the corps and all that other
stuff. Products like Cyberpirates and Blood in the Boardroom are addressing
that.
I'm disappointed by the number of folks who think FASA isn't heading in the
right direction with Shadowrun. I've been very proud to work with Mike on the
game in the past few years. If you do feel SR is going the wrong way, all I
can tell you is to fill out your product response cards and let FASA know what
you like and what you don't like. And, as Bull pointed out, send in a product
proposal or two.
Okay, back to work on the magic stuff.
Take care,
Steve
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:18:35 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Cugley <michael.cugley@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Non-running sources of income (was Re: Talismongering)
In-Reply-To: <354F849C.2234@*********.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On the subject of security for one's enchanting adept's thriving Orichalcum
production facitlity, what do you think High Lifestyle's for, anyway?
Security is included in the price, as I recall...
--
Mike Cugley, lunatic at large
http://freespace.virgin.net/michael.cugley/
http://freespace.virgin.net/michael.cugley/Art/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:00:20 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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Katt Freyson wrote:
>|> Adam, I respect your work on this list greatly, but that
>|> has got to be
>|> the most moronic phrase in the entire English Language, and
>|> likely quite a
>|> few others. X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
>|> different.
>
> Phew, I was hesitant in answering Adam's post due to my recent history,
>but was hoping someone else had caught this. If someone had given this
>phrase to my teacher when I was taking Critical Thinking, they would have
>flunked. Basically he is saying P= !P which is not possible.
Err, maybe you should talk to your teacher again... That's not what
he's saying. X and Y are *different*. X != Y. Or do you deny that
Shadowrun would still be Shadowrun without, say, DocWagon? Sure,
DocWagon plays *a part* in the world, but it isn't really necessary.
The world would feel the same 99% of the time, because DocWagon isn't
a requirement for Shadowrun. Now, whether magic is a requirement
for Shadowrun is another question...
> I would believe that Adam was trying to say that Shadowrun without magic
>would be different, but still close enough not to matter.
>
> It is my opinion that this is wrong, very wrong. While it may not be
>apparent all the time, magic in Shadowrun has greatly influenced things. The
>Tir Tan Gire(sp) for example would not exist, and that is a big difference.
Tir Tairngire. Why wouldn't it? You could still have IEs without
magic - it'd just be due to high tech.
>The NANs would not have been able to reclaim any territory. And, the day to
>day things that are not necessarily noticed would be very different.
So the NAN uses nukes and assault rifles instead of volcanoes.
> So I'd say that to state that Shadowrun would be basically the same
>without the magic is being incorrect. But that is my opinion.
Oh, I agree. I don't think that SR without magic would be the same.
> Just because you have scenarios that don't make much use of magic is
>irrelevant, because the magic is there in the background and does influence
>things.
Well, it makes some stuff easier but mainly it makes the world much
more mysterious.
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:59:13 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.net>
> No problem- Hellblasts can't be grounded, since astral mages
can't cast
> DM's. :)
Then its too bad Hellblasts are combat spells, isn't it?
***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
"Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn lasts
forever"
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
"Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo the
better part of humor."
aka Ellegon, Working at making Cannon canon
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are crunchy
and good with ketchup."
--------[Geek Code Block]-----------
GED/GSS d- s++:+ a-- C++ W w+ PS+.5 PE- Y+ t+
5+ X+ R*+.5 !tv+ b+.5 DI+ D- G e h !r-- !y+
-------[End Geek Code Block]-------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:00:37 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: How much down time?
In-Reply-To: <v03110709b17704dd295d@[204.202.55.216]> from "Robert
Nesius" at
May 6, 98 11:32:59 pm
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Questions for the list:
>
Alot this depends on the type of campaign you play, IMHO
> How much downtime do your characters usually have between runs?
>
I usually role a D6, and let that be the number of weeks. Exceptions
do occur however.
> How many runs per game year do your groups fit in?
>
Ick...I only instituted the above rule recently. I'd say somewhere
in the neighborhood of 20+, but it depends. Some adventures take
day in game time, others weeks/monthes.
> What is the average grade of initiacy that your magically actives attain?
>
I haven't had a PC higher then 3 in my campaign in awhile.
> How about average skill rating. ie: Lots of sixes and higher? Sixes and
> lower?
>
Most of the PC's in my world have a few skills six or higher, but I tend
to encourage them to spread out. (I have some modified rules for raising
skills and stats)
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:01:19 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Loseke <mike@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Farts Club
In-Reply-To: <l03110703b176ec5e6b28@[100.100.100.10]> from "Wordman" at
May 7,
98 00:49:30 am
Content-Type: text
Thus spake Wordman:
>
> Geoff Skellams <geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU> wrote:
>
> > Well, I'll be in that (although I can't qualify for the back in
> > the early days of RN, because I only joined again a couple of months
> > ago). I turn 28 on the 25th of this month and I'm a father to boot.
>
> Damn! You're even older than me! (By a month or so, anyway).
Doh! I just turned 29 a couple months ago...
--
Mike Loseke | Unix: Best used by its freshness
mike@*******.com | date of January 19, 2038
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:08:25 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Traveling Quiz
In-Reply-To: <199805070945.FAA12825@********.mindspring.com> from "MC23"
at
May 7, 98 05:44:00 am
Mime-Version: 1.0
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> Does your campaign involve travel, how often, and how far and where is it
> centered?
>
My current campaign is centered in Seattle, but usually involves travel
at least 1 out of every five runs. (just for flavor).
My current players will soon embark on a fairly long ordeal
that takes them to Calfree for awhile. :)
I tend to start most of my games in Seattle, since its
the most fleshed out place FASA seems to have created. From there
I usually stay within North America, but exceptions do occur.
(I'm not fond of London nor are my players, only used Germany once, and
anything involving Aztlan seems to become a huge mess. :))
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:27:26 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: JD <germany@*****************.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>As far as "where do I want to go today?": The path I'd like for SR is
>definately not the one FASA will take. I really like more street level
>plots, and FASA tends towards the Epic. I'd love to see an adventure
book
>that is geared mostly towards a gang campaign. The book would give
extreme
>detail on maybe ten blocks, the gang's turf. Even if you didn't run a
gang
>campaign, you could have runners enter the turf for one reason or
another.
>That's the type of stuff a really like -- exactlt the type of stuff
FASA
>does not make (with possible exception of Seattle Sourcebook).
>
>Wordman
>
This is what I agree with. I would like to see more "realistic"
runners, both in the novels and in the game. I have played (and GMed)
many games where the players get out of control, because of what the
books were like. New players are especially bad about this. They
either come from another system where this is prevelent or they read the
SR novels for ideas, and get the wrong ideas.
I started playing SR because of the "realism" involved -- people you
could relate to, doing things that you could imagine. With this Epic
turn of events, I have a hard time realting, or even imagining anymore.
Jon Doud
germany@*****************.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:27:34 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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----------
> From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.net>
> You admit to playing less SR thanothergames (what others?), and
more
> mages / magic campaigns when you do. Do you have something AGAINST more
> "mundane" campaigns / characters / games? I personally LIKE to see a
> non-mage character do something useful and important (besides protecting
> the mage).
Actually, I said that, not Panther (at least what you had quoted). I
don't play much Shadowrun because I can't find a group, so I mostly play
Palladium and work on tweaking the rules and settings of several games
(SR, AD&D [both editions], Palladium [most of their games], ED, Star Wars
and MERP once in a blue moon, Ars Magica, Storyteller even less frequently
than Star Wars and MERP, V&V... and that's off the top of my head).
As for having anything against mundane characters, no, not really. Its
just that for a very long period I wound up being the mage (or, in AD&D,
the priest), so I got my gaming reflexes tuned towards having magic at
hand. You read about the burned-out mage in Awakenings? That's me with a
fighter\street meat\etc..
Someone pointed out that, being based in a real tradition, Shadowrun
magic works better than most others, it just feels better. I whole
heartedly agree. While I sometimes have a bit of trouble remembering the
rules for Shadowrun, the magic system makes perfect sense (I just think I
could improve it a bit.... but I'll post that later).
> Another "Rifts"? As opposed to another "Mage: the
Assension"?
:) As
> for the "new gadget / book" factor- how many mages go WITHOUT intiating
> for more than a few runs? About 0%? I'd say thats a hefty "new gadget
> factor" that should be looked at. Just because 90% of the munchi mage
> stuff is all in one book doesn't mean its better for the game....
However, how much new stuff gets introduced for mages? Sure, initiating
is a great help, and gives the mage a huge boost... which then barely
moves at all. Whereas a sammy or a decker only needs money, a mage burns
more karma in a day than a sammy burns in a year (on average, of course).
And Karma requires doing shit, important shit, in order to get it. New
totems can't really be counted, simply because you have to start from
scratch if you want to use a new totem.
***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
"Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn lasts
forever"
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
"Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo the
better part of humor."
aka Ellegon, Working at making Cannon canon
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are crunchy
and good with ketchup."
--------[Geek Code Block]-----------
GED/GSS d- s++:+ a-- C++ W w+ PS+.5 PE- Y+ t+
5+ X+ R*+.5 !tv+ b+.5 DI+ D- G e h !r-- !y+
-------[End Geek Code Block]-------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:33:41 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
In-Reply-To: <199805071410.IAA13241@******.carl.org> from "Ojaste,James
[NCR]"
at May 7, 98 10:13:04 am
Content-Type: text
Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote:
/
/ David Buehrer wrote:
/ >
/ >But isn't language used to symbolically represent a world that's
/ >perceived abstractly?
/
/ Perceived abstractly? I don't quite follow...
Sorry :) I was remembering my highschool days when we discovered
metaphysics and had long debates about nothing, and subsequently
wrote a sentance that bordered on being metaphysical.
However, I will try to explain.
I can look out the window and see a parking lot that has automobils
parked in it. Most of the autos are cars, with an SUV and a couple
of minivans. There're a wide variety of cars: two door, four door,
sport, sedan, etc. There're also a wide variaty of manufactures:
Saturn, Ford, VW, Honda, Chevy, Toyota, etc (the Fords seem to be in
the majority).
When using a word such as auto, it's easy to see that it symbolically
describes an abstract idea. There really is no such thing as an
auto per se, and yet there is in the eye of the beholder.
The word car also symbolizes and abstract perception. A VW Fox GL
can be percieved as a car. A Ford Probe can be percieved as a car.
You'd think that when you get down to the level of Ford Probe that
you are no longer percieving abstractly. But you are. Think about
everything that that perception represents (depending on who you
are): sports car, fast, agile, two seater, babe magnet, middle aged
pacifier, etc.
It's not possible to not percieve something abstractly.
On a biological level your eye first interprets the light that is
reflected off of objects. Your brain then interprets this
interpretation. You then assign values to the interpretation. Is a
Ford Probe first and foremost a sports car? Or do you view it as a
babe magnet? Or is it something that middle aged men by to reclaim
their lost youth? Or is it just a car? Or is it a conglomeration of
seperate machines engineered to combine their functions to produce an
end result?
Whether you're reading or listening, you're interpreting abstract
symbols to interpret someone else's abstract perception of the
world. And when you communicate with someone you are attempting to
share your abstract perception of the world with that person by using
abstract symbols to define those perceptions.
It's a wonder we can communicate at all :)
/ >Are we having fun yet :)
/
/ Eh. What choice do we have?
<chuckle>
-David
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:33:29 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: How much down time?
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 5/7/98 1:38:16 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
nesius@******.COM writes:
> Questions for the list:
Oh, then I have to put into this one. We have such a -history- in SR.... ;)
> How much downtime do your characters usually have between runs?
Depends on what Mike gets us or we manage to strangle out of him. Lately,
it's been not more than two or three days. We did manage 4 here lately.
We're BEGGINING (at least I am with Binder) to have more, but it ain't gonna
happen.
> How many runs per game year do your groups fit in?
Oooo, hard question. Definition of a run varies. I guess I would have to
estimate at least 80-100 different adventure hooks per "Game Year". Real Time
Year? Perhaps 50% more than that. BUT, an adventure hook is such a piece,
big/small, or the overall game theme we may be using.
> What is the average grade of initiacy that your magically actives attain?
THAT information is classified....but you know us a bit, at least me. Karmic
rich environs, yessirreeeeee....
> How about average skill rating. ie: Lots of sixes and higher? Sixes and
> lower?
Average Skills are leveling at about 5 or so. Average of the high skills???
Bouncing right now. Ignoring Binder's Enchanting oriented skills, probably
10ish....
> Just trying to get a feel for where people are at. Probably all over
> the map, but I'd appreciate your input on this.
>
> Thanks,
> -Rob
Okay Rob, now it's your turn. What are you guys running at these days? I
noticed you mentioned the "Vampire" usage, and think that's interesting/funny
in it's own way. I did my damndest to get Vamps/Shapers out of the hands of
the players (at the cost of half or more of the original game group
admittedly), yet I hear you at least use some of the background.
In short, how would you answer your own questions.
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:37:05 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 5/7/98 2:42:49 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
evamarie@**********.net writes:
> No problem- Hellblasts can't be grounded, since astral mages can't
> cast
> DM's. :)
> Seriously, though, how / why is Jett dual natured? That is more
> bizarre than the deltaware, IMO. MUCH more bizarre.
>
> -Mongoose
>
Uh, Mongoose, Hellblast is a Combat Spell (Fireblast in the new name for it).
So yes, it can be grounded appropriately. As for Jett's Dual Nature...well,
that depends I guess if she is assensing at the time (I've seen the character
sheet, and I still think she's cool :).
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:41:47 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 5/7/98 4:29:45 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
mc23@**********.COM writes:
> >> Well, didn't the elves try to exterminate the dragons in Earthdawn?
> >>
> >Yes, and one could say that the Sphinx had a lot to do with the outcome of
> >that discussion....hmmm....could be...
>
> The Sphinx was created to look over Theran's rule. Nothing to do
> with dragon's there. Thera has had trouble with dragons before but Thera
> is also a mixed nation and not Elven. Sphinx has just sat there since its
> creation. The rulers of Thera do not know if the Spinx will ever move but
> they still watch what they do (getting a little braver with time).
>
Actually, there was a passage concerning "the people of Thera waking up one
morning and seeing a dragon sitting on it's head." What happened in Thera
after that was incredibly precise and nightmarish (the extra deaths...sounded
biblical to me for the "First Born of Egypt" theory...).
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 08:39:25 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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----------
> From: Robert Nesius <nesius@******.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
> Date: Wednesday, May 06, 1998 11:27 PM
>
> My 2 cents:
>
> Magic in SR: I liked the combination of magic and tech. But what really
> made the magic click was the very intuitive and slick mechanics for it.
No,
> they are not perfect, but they were darn good. I'm re-reading the Grim
II
> now, and I'm still impressed.
>
True... I really like the system too, now that I think about it.
<snip>
>
> I also think that the dragon assissination seemed "forced."
>
<snip>
This comment was the real reason I replied to this one. The thought
occured to me that while the assassination of Dunky was a bit out of the
blue, the thought occurs the assassination of Kennedy was just as
unexpected. In real life there's not a lot of foreshadowing.
But it was probably something they forced, I will admit.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:46:24 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <199805071459.IAA15289@******.carl.org> from "Ojaste,James
[NCR]"
at May 7, 98 11:00:20 am
Content-Type: text
Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote:
/
/ Katt Freyson wrote:
/ >|> Adam, I respect your work on this list greatly, but that
/ >|> has got to be
/ >|> the most moronic phrase in the entire English Language, and
/ >|> likely quite a
/ >|> few others. X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
/ >|> different.
/ >
/ > Phew, I was hesitant in answering Adam's post due to my recent history,
/ >but was hoping someone else had caught this. If someone had given this
/ >phrase to my teacher when I was taking Critical Thinking, they would have
/ >flunked. Basically he is saying P= !P which is not possible.
/
/ Err, maybe you should talk to your teacher again... That's not what
/ he's saying. X and Y are *different*. X != Y. Or do you deny that
/ Shadowrun would still be Shadowrun without, say, DocWagon? Sure,
/ DocWagon plays *a part* in the world, but it isn't really necessary.
/ The world would feel the same 99% of the time, because DocWagon isn't
/ a requirement for Shadowrun. Now, whether magic is a requirement
/ for Shadowrun is another question...
This is starting to remind of of the "is Shadowrun Cyberpunk debate".
Please, let's not go there.
/ > So I'd say that to state that Shadowrun would be basically the same
/ >without the magic is being incorrect. But that is my opinion.
/
/ Oh, I agree. I don't think that SR without magic would be the same.
But would it be Shadowrun?
The answer depends on how one defines Shadowrun. And being
individuals we each define it differently.
In my definition of Shadowrun, magic is an integral factor. In
someone else's definition that might not be the case. And neither
one of us would be right or wrong.
-David
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 08:48:36 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Sourcebooks (was Re: FASA's On/Off Course?)
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----------
> From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.net>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Sourcebooks (was Re: FASA's On/Off Course?)
> Date: Thursday, May 07, 1998 1:01 AM
>
> > Re: FASA's On/Off Course? ("Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman" ,
Tue 18:16)
>
> > > Why we won't see many area sourcebooks.
> > >
> > > It's simple, FASA painted themselves in a corner with Shadowrun
in
> > > that everything happens in your home city.
>
> Not IMO. Our characters travel a LOT, and "home city" tends to
loose
> meaning pretty fast. We've liked / used most of the sourcebooks, but a
> "genric travle guide", would be better for us. NAGRL fills some gaps,
> but leaves many. Just because all the FASA stuf says "Seattle", doesn't
> mean people play Seattle- similar features can be adapted for plots set
> n any city. And having EVERYTHING happen in your town starts to stretch
> thin pretty fast.
>
I suppose that was sort of my point too, in a way (which was what I had
actually posted in the response you quoted. ;)) Our group has the
advantage of being in Seattle in real life. So Seattle is a good base of
operations for us. But I really like to broaden horizons when I run
things, so I like to be able to have the runners have to track something
down in the Carib League or in the wilds of Amazonia. A little bit of
variety. Plus I think it really gives you a good feel for the world, so
that you can give your character a bit more variety in his background than,
"My guy grew up in the streets of Seattle, he's always lived in Seattle.
He'll probably die in Seattle." =)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:56:35 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MgkellyMP5 <MgkellyMP5@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the Single
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 98-05-07 04:49:51 EDT, you write:
<< The poor man's deluded. He's been brainwashed by the SR2 new order.
Get 'im lads!
>>
Hey!! I resemble that remark!!
But seriously, it DID make combat a lot more deadly. Which was a good
incentive to think things through rather than using your guns.
Which may have helped cut down on the Munchkin population, had FASA stuck with
it.
Mgkelly
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 08:55:53 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkinism at it's finest
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----------
> From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Munchkinism at it's finest
> Date: Thursday, May 07, 1998 2:11 AM
>
> Once upon a time, Wafflemeisters wrote;
>
> > Replacing the Wires with a custom grade is out of the question,
cost
> >wise. If it isn't, I don't want to hear about it (I'm jealous)....
>
> <snip the rest>
>
> sigh. Replacing wires is out of the question period. It's one of those
> one shot type of implantations. Didn't anybody fully read Shadowtech?
> sigh again.
>
I thought that was many of the other reflex enhancers, like that chemical
boost that they have in the Street Sammy book, but not Wired Reflexes.
It's been a while since I've read Shadowtech cover to cover (like, since it
came out), so I could easily be forgetting something major.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:59:35 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun without magic?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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----------
> From: TalonMail <TalonMail@***.COM>
> There have been many posts and speculations on the list recently to the
effect
> that "FASA is reducing/removing magic from Shadowrun." Speaking as the
guy who
> is hard at work on the Magic chapter for Shadowrun 3 and what will
probably be
> the largest Magic Sourcebook Shadowrun has ever seen, I have to tell you
that
> nothing could be further from the truth.
I would just like to say that my initial comment was sarcastic (and, from
what I've read, pretty ill-informed). Unfortunately, I always forget the
little emoticons that denote that.
***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
"Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn lasts
forever"
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
"Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo the
better part of humor."
aka Ellegon, Working at making Cannon canon
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are crunchy
and good with ketchup."
--------[Geek Code Block]-----------
GED/GSS d- s++:+ a-- C++ W w+ PS+.5 PE- Y+ t+
5+ X+ R*+.5 !tv+ b+.5 DI+ D- G e h !r-- !y+
-------[End Geek Code Block]-------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:01:14 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Traveling Quiz
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 5/7/98 4:46:18 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
mc23@**********.COM writes:
> Does your campaign involve travel, how often, and how far and where is it
> centered?
>
I'm bored, don't have to work today, so I'm gonna take up MC23's "Poll" for
the fun of it.
Does it involve travel? YES, most emphatically, YES!
How Often? All the bloody fragging time....
How FAR? That information is classified, though there are rumors of runs
made that are measurable in AU's... :P Hell, if it weren't for some really
exorberant spending accounts, the fuel bill alone will kill us all. One
character has family in Christchurch New Zealand. One Character is in the
process of moving to New Sakhalin, Nation of Siberia (our remade eastern
USSR). One character is looking into buying a nice little villa along the
outskirts of Cairo; Egypt. Another character (Gron the Ghoul) is home based
out of Chicago (working as an emissary between the St. Louis, Chicago and
'Greater Manhattan' Ghoul Communities. A few of the character bounce between
the others (Reaver, the Decker of the group) is curently in Egypt with Binder
ATM, but often goes to Christchurch to stay with Jazz (his best friend, and
the principle rigger; whose family is there...Jazz also has lots of growing
contacts with the Huk...he gave them a really nice cyberdeck we got from a run
as a "contact payment" recently). Greaser (whenever Brent danes us with his
presence) is from Seattle, but is working with the Tir Na nOg government
through it trouble times. Jen is in Maryland (in the mountains), but is also
connected to the Paths, and is helping out when she can (she's our principle
magician---Path of Druid). Oh yeah, Mythos (the "Empath"), he was in Pueblo
Corporate (Phoenix) but recently got run out of town by some other problems
(see below). I think he's staying on his yacht-thing somewhere in the Gulf of
Mexico (Gulf of Aztlan??).
(please note, in our games, the Paths of Tir recently had a major schism along
the lines of a Civil War breakout....seems someone found out that Alachia was
using the Paths too much for her own personal gain and put the information to
the surface....yep, got rid of that IE's set of influences really quick)
(in our games, we allowed for a character to discover that he was "Immortal",
but he wasn't one of the "Ancient Immortals". Alachia discovered him and
tried to recruit him, but he told her to go take a leap off of one of her
"Eternal Bridges". She retaliated with a warning shot, he fired back
something that nailed one of her homes, she hired an assassin, a modification
to the BTAC picked up the Morphseeker signature and the shot missed, he
retaliated, this time by giving certain information in his own ... Empathic
Way ... to others, sacrificed his whole grade he had up to that point in a
massive ritual aimed at her (kind of like burning foci points in the First Ed
rules) and snapped her contacts for a while. She gets pissy, calls up a
meeting at the next "Paths" meeting, but Neil (the guy from the Will who is
given the "Ring of the Bard") decides to display certain truths. Things go
downhill from there for her, and she backs off (aka, she is removed from our
interactions and the plot point was discarded for now) Now poor ol' Mythos is
rebuilding his Grade and Contacts....not a bad sacrifice for what would have
otherwise been his life and maybe ours too if allowed to go any further.)
Where is it Centered? Oh we are still Geocentric (I know that ain't the
word I am looking for) the world Earth is the center of the Universe after
all. There is aircraft carrier that recently joined New Sakhalin (a remade
Sakhalin after the Winternight Wars we had here recently) as part of the
Citycorp(SR-TM) resource move. It used to be home.
So, there ya go....a run down of the group as it stands and where they are at
(sort of). We're gaining two new players and a whole new game timeslot for
the week (at least for a while), so who knows what is gonna happen to us
now...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:06:47 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: How much down time?
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In a message dated 5/7/98 8:18:50 AM US Eastern Standard Time, Airwasp@***.COM
writes:
> In a message dated 5/7/98 6:31:18 AM !!!First Boot!!!, nesius@******.COM
> writes:
>
> > Questions for the list:
> > How much downtime do your characters usually have between runs?
> Normally a week in between games, though after some of the "larger" runs,
I'
> ll
> extend it even longer, such as a three week downtime for last Sunday's
game.
Oh yeah, prove me wrong...I forgot about the 3 week downtime thing.
> > How many runs per game year do your groups fit in?
> 20 to 30.
I've done the Math Mike, I think you should rethink...but, then again, the
definition of a "run" still varies...
> > What is the average grade of initiacy that your magically actives
attain?
> 8+
Oh yeah, here we go (grabbing the "holy-than-thou-flame-shields")
> > How about average skill rating. ie: Lots of sixes and higher? Sixes and
> > lower?
> 6-10's
Believe it or not, with Gron and Jazz, the actual average is a 5 ATM. As I
said, ignoring the higher end stuff....
> > Just trying to get a feel for where people are at. Probably all over
> > the map, but I'd appreciate your input on this.
> All over the world.
>
> > Thanks,
> > -Rob
> You are welcome Rob, I wish I could have been playing with you guys so many
> years ago.
> Mike
Withholding Commentary...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:04:13 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Vehicle Economy (was RE: What is a CF?)
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----------
> From: Ojaste,James [NCR] <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Vehicle Economy (was RE: What is a CF?)
> Date: Thursday, May 07, 1998 7:26 AM
>
> Ereskanti wrote:
> >I'm still trying to figure out where a man-sized or smaller rotor drone
> >fits 120 liters of fuel.
> >-=-=-=-=-
> [snip]
> >As for the fuel, yeah, the numbers don't match quite right, i know...we
> >argued
> >out compressed fuel tanks (which I once made rules for...Wordman, if you
read
> >this, do you still have those as well? They were in the Nagee back when
> >Chris
> >did them)....
>
> Well, 120 liters of fuel is 1.5m x 20cm x 40cm - which will fit into
> a man-sized drone with a little effort. You could hang a 0.125m^3 box
> but it would be pretty heavy (assuming gasoline, it'd mass 0.7 kg/L =
> 87.5 kg).
>
Okay, then how about this one:
Throughout the chassis/engine rules, they seem to forget about small/micro
rotordrones (the kind that fit into the palm of your hand). That's the
only way I can reason that under one of the fuel entries, the list that all
rotor drones can carry that same 120 liters of fuel. From the micro to the
mansized. And within that drone, would there be room for the engine, the
sensors, that CF of cargo space that you allegedly have, and any other
goodies that would come standard?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:09:07 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberware Power Sources (Was Re: Cyberware: Where do you put
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In a message dated 5/7/98 8:21:29 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
czregbrt@*********.EDU writes:
> > That makes me think about an evolution of SR world... Magic drains
energies
> > from astral quite easily and with great potential. If you magic and
> > technological devices to harvest those energies, that can give you great
> > possibilities.
>
> didn't they talk about thin in one of the orrigonal sourcebooks? I seem to
> remember a post about a powerplant that tried to use a locked physiacl
> manipulation with the electrical elemental effect to creat "free power",
> but failed because of astral pollution. Anyone else?
>
I remember that too, but can't remember what happened. I know in the games
here we've played with the idea using specially redesigned Telekinetic
Manipulations to spin the turbines of an electrical generator. Combine that
with an Anchoring / Quickening sort of thing, I can see it working okay.
the problem IMO comes in when some "keep the magic pure" terrorist group comes
along and attempts grounding magic to destroy the sites where stuff like this
happens...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:11:15 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Shadowrun Math
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Given that I'm likely to fail algebra this semester, I find it hard to
believe that I'm doing this post but:
X = Shadowrun
Y = Fantasy Elements (Magic, Dragons, Trolls, etc.)
Z = Cyberpunk Elements (Cyberware, Gritty Future)
A = Realism
A+Y+Z=X
A+Z=/=X
Or, to put it in ecological terms, if you take an environment and take
away all the caterpillars, you can't come back in a year and have the same
environment minus caterpillars. Everything would have to adapt to not
having its food source or what fed on it, and this would change the
environment. Would it be really similar? Most likely. Would it be the
same? No.
***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
"Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn lasts
forever"
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
"Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo the
better part of humor."
aka Ellegon, Working at making Cannon canon
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are crunchy
and good with ketchup."
--------[Geek Code Block]-----------
GED/GSS d- s++:+ a-- C++ W w+ PS+.5 PE- Y+ t+
5+ X+ R*+.5 !tv+ b+.5 DI+ D- G e h !r-- !y+
-------[End Geek Code Block]-------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:15:29 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
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David Buehrer wrote:
>/ >But isn't language used to symbolically represent a world that's
>/ >perceived abstractly?
>/
>/ Perceived abstractly? I don't quite follow...
>
>Sorry :) I was remembering my highschool days when we discovered
>metaphysics and had long debates about nothing, and subsequently
>wrote a sentance that bordered on being metaphysical.
We usually had debates about theoretical physics... :-)
>However, I will try to explain.
>
>I can look out the window and see a parking lot that has automobils
>parked in it. Most of the autos are cars, with an SUV and a couple
>of minivans. There're a wide variety of cars: two door, four door,
>sport, sedan, etc. There're also a wide variaty of manufactures:
>Saturn, Ford, VW, Honda, Chevy, Toyota, etc (the Fords seem to be in
>the majority).
>
>When using a word such as auto, it's easy to see that it symbolically
>describes an abstract idea. There really is no such thing as an
>auto per se, and yet there is in the eye of the beholder.
Ah. So you mean that the descriptions of "auto" is an abstraction
for what's there. I've got a problem with this ("description" as
opposed to "perception"), but we'll get to that in a minute...
>The word car also symbolizes and abstract perception. A VW Fox GL
>can be percieved as a car. A Ford Probe can be percieved as a car.
>
>You'd think that when you get down to the level of Ford Probe that
>you are no longer percieving abstractly. But you are. Think about
>everything that that perception represents (depending on who you
>are): sports car, fast, agile, two seater, babe magnet, middle aged
>pacifier, etc.
>
>It's not possible to not percieve something abstractly.
Ah. Here I disagree. When somebody perceives something, they cannot
possibly perceive everything about it. We can't *know* everything
about it. Therefore, our perception is incomplete - but not
necessarily abstract.
>On a biological level your eye first interprets the light that is
>reflected off of objects. Your brain then interprets this
>interpretation. You then assign values to the interpretation. Is a
>Ford Probe first and foremost a sports car? Or do you view it as a
>babe magnet? Or is it something that middle aged men by to reclaim
>their lost youth? Or is it just a car? Or is it a conglomeration of
>seperate machines engineered to combine their functions to produce an
>end result?
It takes more and more processing power to recognize finer details
in what you observe. In a blink, you can probably recognize it as
"an object I don't want to run into". A little more time, and it
becomes "a car". A little more time, "a sports car", some more time,
"a Ford Probe".
As this is going on, at each stage your mind is grabbing memories,
comparing sensations etc to a) figure out what the object is and b)
figure out what use it is. So the act of perception involves both
recognition and analysis. The analysis bit may well include
"babe-magnet", but also "fast transport" and "expensive".
>Whether you're reading or listening, you're interpreting abstract
>symbols to interpret someone else's abstract perception of the
>world. And when you communicate with someone you are attempting to
>share your abstract perception of the world with that person by using
>abstract symbols to define those perceptions.
This is a pretty rough way of trying to communicate what you mean -
I'm pretty sure I understand you only because I've thought a fair
bit about the nature of reality and you're describing what amounts
to 4 reality shifts... If you really care about what I'm talking
about, look at http://ojaste.ml.org/~ojastej/reality.html
>It's a wonder we can communicate at all :)
Heh. :-)
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:18:20 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Non-running sources of income (was Re: Talismongering)
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In a message dated 5/7/98 9:58:09 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
michael.cugley@******.NET writes:
> On the subject of security for one's enchanting adept's thriving Orichalcum
> production facitlity, what do you think High Lifestyle's for, anyway?
> Security is included in the price, as I recall...
>
>
That is correct, High Lifestyle does have -some- security...but is it the kind
of security that is more readily capable of handling a group that is out to
steal something that only a magician is likely to want that badly???
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:20:22 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
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In a message dated 5/7/98 9:58:15 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA writes:
> > It is my opinion that this is wrong, very wrong. While it may not be
> >apparent all the time, magic in Shadowrun has greatly influenced things.
> The
> >Tir Tan Gire(sp) for example would not exist, and that is a big
difference.
>
> Tir Tairngire. Why wouldn't it? You could still have IEs without
> magic - it'd just be due to high tech.
>
> >The NANs would not have been able to reclaim any territory. And, the day
to
> >day things that are not necessarily noticed would be very different.
>
> So the NAN uses nukes and assault rifles instead of volcanoes.
>
No offense folks, but the two examples that are given here have an entirely
different impact on how the world of SR would work, had they been taken.
Technology high enough to pursue out Real Immortality would be no different
IMO than some magically incurred genetic expression. And Nukes/Assault Rifles
vs. Volcanoes??? I don't know...the fallout question keeps coming to my
mind...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:58:02 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, David Buehrer wrote;
>But isn't language used to symbolically represent a world that's
>perceived abstractly?
No, "Language is a virus from outer space" - Laurie Anderson
&
>It's a wonder we can communicate at all :)
A sampled(?) quote from EBN-OZN's AEIOU sometimes Y ?
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
"When _I_ use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful
tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."
-Through the Looking Glass
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:09:53 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Ereskanti wrote:
>> > It is my opinion that this is wrong, very wrong. While it may not be
>> >apparent all the time, magic in Shadowrun has greatly influenced things.
>> The
>> >Tir Tan Gire(sp) for example would not exist, and that is a big
>difference.
>> Tir Tairngire. Why wouldn't it? You could still have IEs without
>> magic - it'd just be due to high tech.
>>
>> >The NANs would not have been able to reclaim any territory. And, the day
>to
>> >day things that are not necessarily noticed would be very different.
>> So the NAN uses nukes and assault rifles instead of volcanoes.
>>
>No offense folks, but the two examples that are given here have an entirely
>different impact on how the world of SR would work, had they been taken.
>Technology high enough to pursue out Real Immortality would be no different
>IMO than some magically incurred genetic expression. And Nukes/Assault
>Rifles
>vs. Volcanoes??? I don't know...the fallout question keeps coming to my
>mind...
My point was that the *elements* of the story, like "NAN secedes
from the US" or "a weird 'elven' nation secedes from the NAN"
could have been produced using other special effects. I don't
think that SR without magic would be SR - but much of the history
wouldn't necessarily change. The reason that I think that magic
is required in SR is the flavour of the universe - you never know
what to expect, weird stuff is going on all around, you have to
be quick on your feet to avoid stepping on your jaw.
In short, it makes the world more mysterious, leads to interesting
situations (Saeder-Krupp may have formed on its own, but to be
personally visited by Lofwyr is a different matter!), etc.
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:11:37 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
In-Reply-To: <199805071701.LAA22717@******.carl.org> from "MC23" at May
7,
98 12:58:02 pm
Content-Type: text
MC23 wrote:
/
/ Once upon a time, David Buehrer wrote;
/
/ >But isn't language used to symbolically represent a world that's
/ >perceived abstractly?
/
/ No, "Language is a virus from outer space" - Laurie Anderson
:) I'd say that language is a virus from inner space.
/ &
/ >It's a wonder we can communicate at all :)
/
/ A sampled(?) quote from EBN-OZN's AEIOU sometimes Y ?
Um, no. At least I don't think so. I thought it was a line from some
movie.
/
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
/
/ "When _I_ use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful
/ tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."
/ -Through the Looking Glass
Now *that* book plays with language.
-David
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:22:54 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sheldon Rose <scrose@****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
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David Buehrer wrote:
>
> Nexx wrote:
> /
> / ----------
> / > From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
> /
> / > But Shadowrun would still be
> / > Shadowrun if it didn't have magic, it would just be different.
> /
> / Adam, I respect your work on this list greatly, but that has got to be
> / the most moronic phrase in the entire English Language, and likely quite a
> / few others. X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
> / different.
>
> But isn't language used to symbolically represent a world that's
> perceived abstractly?
>
> And if you'll look closely the top of an X looks like the top of a
> Y. So a Y is a different looking X, and vice versa. So from one
> viewpoint, "X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
> different." works.
>
> Just because your perspective is different then Adam's doesn't make
> Adam's perspective any less significant.
In what turned into a rather heated flame war some weeks ago. I got
about the same results as Adam did by making a statement that many
misunderstood. My campaign is very magical tech is even down played to
some extent. Then again so is major mojo street level folks don't have
access to some of this stuff.
The big question is Would it be SR without all the parts IMO no. The
game would become nothing more than a 2nd rate clone of other games. In
this case no high tech and cyber toys it becomes World of darkness (The
white Wolf games) and conversely without magic it's a of clone CP2020.
While I like those other games and even use ideas form them every now
and then in SR IMO it's more fun than other of the other games in many
ways.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:28:40 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Non-running sources of income (was Re: Talismongering)
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----------
> From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Non-running sources of income (was Re: Talismongering)
> Date: Thursday, May 07, 1998 9:18 AM
>
> In a message dated 5/7/98 9:58:09 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
> michael.cugley@******.NET writes:
>
> > On the subject of security for one's enchanting adept's thriving
Orichalcum
> > production facitlity, what do you think High Lifestyle's for, anyway?
> > Security is included in the price, as I recall...
> >
> >
> That is correct, High Lifestyle does have -some- security...but is it the
kind
> of security that is more readily capable of handling a group that is out
to
> steal something that only a magician is likely to want that badly???
>
I have two words to go along with that:
Gang background.
One of the few mages I ever ran I got the gang background, and my GM let me
populate it with the "wiz kid mage" contact... the ones with a magic
attribute of three. It was one of those, "You're hired to protect X, but
no matter what you do, X dies." Adventures. It was a published one, so
someone on here has probably been on the same adventure.
Anyway, the gang was really handy. Helping out with ritual sendings of a
special spell I called "rotting curse" (I had a whole Cthulhu mythos going
with this guy), keeping an eye on stuff for a few hundred nuyen. If you
had luxury lifestyle and let them stay with you when they weren't keeping
watch for you, you'd have a pretty handy magical security force.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:32:22 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <neon@******.BACKBONE.OLEMISS.EDU>
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:51 AM 5/7/98 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:
>Nexx wrote:
>/
>/ ----------
>/ > From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
>/
>/ > But Shadowrun would still be
>/ > Shadowrun if it didn't have magic, it would just be different.
>/
>/ Adam, I respect your work on this list greatly, but that has got
to be
>/ the most moronic phrase in the entire English Language, and likely quite a
>/ few others. X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
>/ different.
Wow, I've seen some trolls in my time, but that was one of the more
annoying.
Mike Broadwater
Member of the Blackhand and Dwarven Illuminati
http://www.olemiss.edu/~neon/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:53:40 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the
In-Reply-To: <199805071350.HAA12642@******.carl.org> from "Ojaste,James
[NCR]"
at May 7, 98 09:51:32 am
Content-Type: text
Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote:
/
/ >You know what the sad thing is? There are plenty of people on this list
/ >who simply have no recollection of living like that, who only know about
/ >the Cold War from books and school. Some of us geezers actually grew up
/ >with the spectre of the Red Menance and Global Thermonuclear War.
Oh my god. I'm old enough to experience a generation gape <shock>.
/ Heh - I remember watching WarGames for the first time. Back then
/ my computer was a C64 and I was still disgusted by how *stupid*
/ the movie was.
The computers that are represented in movies become obsolete in the
year it takes to edit the movie. I saw My Best Friend's Wedding
recently and cringed when an email program that was used looked out
of place.
<grin> It used to be that people would pick up on the fact that the
character was driving last year's car, or wearing last years
fashion. Now we pick up on the fact that a character is using last
year's computer.
Here's a fun run. The runners are hired by a movie producer to steal
the latest in home computer technology from Fuchi so that a scene in
his movie won't be out of place when the movie is actually shown.
-David
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:53:34 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alexia Silverstein <alexia_silverstein@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
You're only 25 and you feel old? I'm almost 20, but geeze! I'm usually
the youngest in our Shadowrun group, sometimes second youngest, but no
one minds or cares about each others age really just as long as they
want to play and have fun (it's not a very big group). I think I'll
start feeling old when I have great grand children. My grandmother
(untill she had her stroke) used to hang out with me and my (at the
time)teen aged friends and she was the life of the party! At 70
something! It's all in how you look at it. I intend to play RPGs
untill I can't remember what my real name is too.
http://www.sova.net/trish
Old is when you reach dad's age...
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:34:26 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alexia Silverstein <alexia_silverstein@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---MC23 <mc23@**********.COM> wrote:
>
> Once upon a time, Alexia Silverstein wrote;
>
> >But if it makes you feel any better I got my friend Cara (chick age
> >almost 14) addicted to Earthdawn.
>
> I have to ask, what is chick age almost 14 in human years?
<snip>
Cara is a young lady who is 13 and three quarters years old in human.
http://www.sova.net/trish
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:02:11 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners
In-Reply-To: <19980507175334.4019.rocketmail@******.yahoomail.com> from
"Alexia Silverstein" at May 7, 98 10:53:34 am
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>
> You're only 25 and you feel old? I'm almost 20, but geeze! I'm usually
> the youngest in our Shadowrun group, sometimes second youngest, but no
> one minds or cares about each others age really just as long as they
> want to play and have fun (it's not a very big group). I think I'll
> start feeling old when I have great grand children. My grandmother
> (untill she had her stroke) used to hang out with me and my (at the
> time)teen aged friends and she was the life of the party! At 70
> something! It's all in how you look at it. I intend to play RPGs
> untill I can't remember what my real name is too.
>
Heh..well I'll be 23 in October, and come to think of it, I'm usually
the youngest in the group. (Of course that might be because 95% of
the people I hang out with are older....).
What the saying "Its not how old you are, but how you are old"
Seems to apply. Odd however, I figured more of the list was in their
early 20's, then there are. Hey Tinner, this would be another cool
fact for your Who's who page....age break down for the RN list.
Sigh...I'm at work, and just found out that I'm GMing tonight, and
get to finish Missing Blood (not a bad module if you clean it up a bit).
Ah well.....later.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:12:41 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lander Williams <lander@****.WAVE.CA>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the Single
Shadowrunner(t
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
><< Ah, SR1 and autosuccesses and variable staging. Hey, I bet the kiddies
> haven't ever heard of 3L1 or 5D4 damage codes, eh? Now THAT complicated
> combat.
> >>
>
>and it was a pain in the ass too! '-2 to Power Level/ +1 Wound Level and it
>makes the damage code of a Browning Max-Power with Firepower ammo....'
>personally, i was very relieved when they started using 2 as the Staging
>number for everything in SR2.
hmm... how DOES 5D4 work as a damage code?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:21:07 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
In-Reply-To: <26f114fb.35512d7c@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:41 PM 5/6/98 EDT, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-05-06 22:16:02 EDT, you write:
>
><< I've been a club boi for half my life now so I still deal with young
> uns'. Now realizing they are all too young to date makes me feel really
> ancient.
> >>
>
>it's worse thinking certain...things about them, and then finding out their
>age. you suddenly realize that you are going to Hell for the debauched
>thoughts running through your mind.
I realized this fact several years ago; I used to lifeguard at a local
waterpark. When I hit 21 I realized that the average age of the fellow
lifeguards was 16 or so and they only wanted to know me so I would buy beer
for them. *That's* the main reason I feel old. But on the other hand, I
feel too young to be dating women who actually are my age. It's not a
healthy position for the ego, let me tell you.
>>>>Is this becoming an Immortal Listmembers thread now?<<<
>
>at least it isn't Immortal Elves again. bastards....
Hehehe...
Hey, the "Respected Elders Relaxation Resort" is now open for business,
right here in sunny southern California. It's got a nice view of the
beach, doesn't have a lot of nasty smog or traffic and best of all, it's
carp-proof. Even GridSec is welcome, provided they are at least 25 years
of age and have either been on the list at some point before 1996 (not
necessarily continuous) or have been playing SR since at least SR1.
Erik J.
Resepected Elders Relaxation Resort Activites Director
"Hey, how about a game of first edition using only the Blue Book?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:22:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: How much down time?
In-Reply-To: <v03110709b17704dd295d@[204.202.55.216]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:32 PM 5/6/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Questions for the list:
>
>How much downtime do your characters usually have between runs?
Depends; it usually mirrors "real" downtime unless a multiple part run is
occurring. Then downtime in SR increases to match the real amount of time
needing to be made up.
>How many runs per game year do your groups fit in?
Depends. I'm starting a new group that will only meet twice a month; at
that rate we'll probably hit about 15 runs per year.
>What is the average grade of initiacy that your magically actives attain?
Depends on how long they survive. It usually takes a couple of months to
hit that first grade. My own PC is currently Grade 10, but he's the first
PC I created back in January 1991. And I've been GMing in recent memory,
so not much has changed in a while. Most PCs are able to get to the 2-4
zone though.
>How about average skill rating. ie: Lots of sixes and higher? Sixes and
>lower?
Again, depends. With my main PC, average would be 6 or above. Most PCs
seem to have their core skill around the 6 range, other skills in the 2-3
range.
But it really depends; Keith with his high-powered games probably has high
Initiate Grades and high Skill levels. My new group starting in a few
weeks will obviously be on the low side of things.
As usual, your mileage may vary.
Erik J.
Resepected Elders Relaxation Resort Activites Director
"Hey, how about a game of first edition using only the Blue Book?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:33:28 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners
MIME-Version: 1.0
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----------
> From: Lander Williams <lander@****.WAVE.CA>
> hmm... how DOES 5D4 work as a damage code?
Power of 5, does deadly damage, and you need 4 successes to move the
damage code down one level (like from Deadly to serious)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:38:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the SingleShadowrunner(t
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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Lander Williams wrote:
>
>><< Ah, SR1 and autosuccesses and variable staging. Hey, I bet the kiddies
>> haven't ever heard of 3L1 or 5D4 damage codes, eh? Now THAT complicated
>> combat.
[snip]
>>personally, i was very relieved when they started using 2 as the Staging
>>number for everything in SR2.
>
>hmm... how DOES 5D4 work as a damage code?
Well, it acts just like 5D, except that instead of every 2 successes
staging the damage up or down, it takes 4 successes.
So, to apply this knowledge practically, if you had a newbie runner
who wasn't very accurate with a pistol, you'd want something with
a high staging (to make it less likely that the target could stage
it away, as you'd probably get fewer successes). An expert, however,
would probably choose a weapon with a low staging on the expectation
that they'd get more successes than the opponent, and so they'd get
to stage the damage up.
It basically allows for a more intelligent choice of weapons than
"I'll grab a heavy pistol - which one doesn't matter, 'cause they're
all 9M"...
More weapon variety, more weapon personality - it's a much cooler
system and I hope that they switch back to it in SR3 (though unlikely,
I'll admit).
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:40:03 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lander Williams <lander@****.WAVE.CA>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>I liked the old rules better as well, for a bundle of reasons. Matter of
>fact, we still use the three-part variable staging rules in our campaign.
>Anyone else out there been faithful to the ole first ed. rules? =)
>
im ashamed to admit ive never even SEEN SR1.. so i dont know what the
old rule were.. if i knew them, i could comment <And possibly even
convert, if i liked them better>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 20:52:44 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
In-Reply-To: <199805071407.QAA16679@***.uio.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Fade said on 16:05/ 7 May 98...
> Heh heh heh.. I always like pro assassins using those 3L1 guns.
> They threw enough dice at you that they always got .. about 3.. more
> successes than the defender.
Yes, the low Staging actually made such guns semi-useful. In SRII anyone
stupid enough to bring a 4L weapon to a firefight where the target wears
armor deserves to get shot...
> Armor reducing power was a good idea, though, rather than automatic
> resistance successes. (Heretic, I know. I'm not *THAT* old, just 26.).
A combination of the two would work very well, I think -- keep the revised
Power Levels of SRII and the way armor works, but add in the Staging rules
of SR1.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
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------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 20:52:44 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners or ShadowGramps
In-Reply-To: <199805071232.MAA06049@********.arthouse.ie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Martin Steffens said on 12:34/ 7 May 98...
> Grumble.. just rejoined the list after two years of absence and now
> this...
Unless I'm very mistaken, I guess this is a good time to say: "Als je 't
over de duivel hebt..."
<GridSec>
You've got a reply-to field set in your mailer which overrides that of the
list; please disable it so you won't get replies meant for the list sent
to your private address.
</GridSec>
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:10:26 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bruce Ford <shaman@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Traveling Quiz
In-Reply-To: <199805070945.FAA12825@********.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 7 May 1998, MC23 wrote:
> Does your campaign involve travel, how often, and how far and where is it
> centered?
Every campaign that I have ever been in as a player and GM as well as
others that I have been only aware of have at some point become
international and travelled to various places around the world.
Every group I have ever GM'd has started small, whichever city they were
based out of but eventually the players opted to move around and did so.
They liked to travel and they (the players) do have a say in what
direction any campaign heads.
Bruce Ford aka Rendar, the educated Ork Street Samurai.
"The Shadows are your friend. Intelligence, your ally. Negotiation, your
companion. Violence, your lover...but frag, chaos is your wife!"
-Summary of the run's results to a Johnson.
E-mail: shaman@*******.com ICQ#: 4804267
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:01:23 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <neon@******.BACKBONE.OLEMISS.EDU>
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>At 07:51 AM 5/7/98 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:
>>Nexx wrote:
>>/
>>/ ----------
>>/ > From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
>>/
>>/ > But Shadowrun would still be
>>/ > Shadowrun if it didn't have magic, it would just be different.
>>/
>>/ Adam, I respect your work on this list greatly, but that has got
to be
>>/ the most moronic phrase in the entire English Language, and likely quite a
>>/ few others. X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
>>/ different.
>
>Wow, I've seen some trolls in my time, but that was one of the more
>annoying.
Don't you hate it when you snip to much?
"And if you'll look closely the top of an X looks like the top of a
Y. So a Y is a different looking X, and vice versa. So from one
viewpoint, "X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
different." works."
Is what I was refering to. And, to clarify my point, while David meant
this as humor (I think), this is illogical, and he knows it (or should).
The only possible reason you make an arguement like this is to get people
to keep arguing. The cake analogy makes more sense. I'd like to see
anyone get through a math or logic course using the previous statement.
Mike Broadwater
Member of the Blackhand and Dwarven Illuminati
http://www.olemiss.edu/~neon/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:08:01 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 5/7/98 1:53:05 PM US Eastern Standard Time, gurth@******.NL
writes:
> > Armor reducing power was a good idea, though, rather than automatic
> > resistance successes. (Heretic, I know. I'm not *THAT* old, just 26.).
>
> A combination of the two would work very well, I think -- keep the revised
> Power Levels of SRII and the way armor works, but add in the Staging rules
> of SR1.
>
I've been thinking about doing this for a while, or at least trying to
convince Mike to do it. But, I think we'd be doubly nasty and keep the SRII
Power Levels for weapons, but bring back the SRI damage stagings...(g)
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:16:11 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980507111153.089f62d2@****.fbiz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
On 7 May 98 at 14:21, Erik Jameson wrote:
> Hey, the "Respected Elders Relaxation Resort" is now open for
> business, right here in sunny southern California. It's got a nice
> view of the beach, doesn't have a lot of nasty smog or traffic and
> best of all, it's carp-proof. Even GridSec is welcome, provided
> they are at least 25 years of age and have either been on the list
> at some point before 1996 (not necessarily continuous) or have been
> playing SR since at least SR1.
Even me?
I promise to leave my jack-boots at the door. :)
--
=================================================================
-DREKHEAD- drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
==================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:14:41 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: SR1 vs. SR2
In-Reply-To: <011101bd79e3$ba11aea0$0101a8c0@********.wave.shaw.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:12 PM 5/7/98 -0600, you wrote:
>>and it was a pain in the ass too! '-2 to Power Level/ +1 Wound Level and it
>>makes the damage code of a Browning Max-Power with Firepower ammo....'
>>personally, i was very relieved when they started using 2 as the Staging
>>number for everything in SR2.
>
>
>hmm... how DOES 5D4 work as a damage code?
As I recall from the back of SR2 BBB, 5D4 would be translated as 7D. A 3L1
would become 2L.
See, the four was the staging number; instead needing two succcess to stage
something up or down, in the case of 5D4 you would need *four* successes.
What's harder to get, two successes at TN7, or four success at TN5?
Without knowning math as well as I should, but I would think it turns out
to be roughly the same (5D4 and 7D). What really threw things off was that
armor, instead of reducing the TN to resist as in SR2, instead gave you
automatic successes. So your armor jacket gave you *five* automatic
successes against anything ballistic. So with that 3L1 light pistol, the
attacker *had* to roll oodles of successes, because the target with an
armor jacket had a head start of five successes going for him. And that
didn't factor in the Body resistance or the use of the SR1 pools, which was
also different from SR2.
The reason why I didn't like it was that you had to know an extra number
for all damage and drain codes. It wasn't a huge problem, but it wasn't as
clean or as elegant as the standard staging of two for SR2. And SR1
physads with autosuccesses with melee attacks were just hell-on-wheels;
hardly anybody could beat one in melee. Of course, in SR2 physads are a
bit wimpy for my taste, so I'm hoping they will be powered up in SR3.
Erik J.
Resepected Elders Relaxation Resort Activites Director
"Hey, how about a game of first edition using only the Blue Book?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:15:13 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: ILs
In-Reply-To: <199805071339.HAA12376@******.carl.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:39 AM 5/7/98 -0600, you wrote:
>/ Is this becoming an Immortal Listmembers thread now?
>/
>/ Damn IL's are behind everything!
>
>Yes, yes we are ;)
>
>(Think about it.)
Please, please don't do that again. I nearly starting laughing out loud in
the middle of the office. As is was, one of the people walking by couldn't
understand why I had this huge idiot grin on my face and silently chuckling.
But it probably is true David. It's probably true.
Erik J.
Buying more grenades, are we?
Resepected Elders Relaxation Resort Activites Director
"Hey, how about a game of first edition using only the Blue Book?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:16:23 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun without magic?
In-Reply-To: <40bee567.3551caea@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:53 AM 5/7/98 EDT, TalonMail wrote:
>There have been many posts and speculations on the list recently to the
effect
>that "FASA is reducing/removing magic from Shadowrun." Speaking as the guy
who
>is hard at work on the Magic chapter for Shadowrun 3 and what will
probably be
>the largest Magic Sourcebook Shadowrun has ever seen, I have to tell you that
>nothing could be further from the truth.
Yippee! Hey Steve, any vague ideas of when that Big Book O'Magic might
possibly be in our grubby little hands? I'm drooling over that.
>There is an effort to balance the fantasy elements with more technology,
>politics, corporate action, and such. As people have pointed out, there was a
>point where every major event in the Sixth World was triggered by a
>spirit/dragon/immortal elf, and that took away from the other things that are
>cool about Shadowrun, like the Matrix, cybertech, the corps and all that
other
>stuff. Products like Cyberpirates and Blood in the Boardroom are addressing
>that.
I'm hoping that this balancing act will continue on with SR3; I'm expecting
it in fact. Mike seems to have gone through an awful lot of trouble to get
tings moving in this direction and I would hate for it to be blown
off-course by something.
>I'm disappointed by the number of folks who think FASA isn't heading in the
>right direction with Shadowrun. I've been very proud to work with Mike on the
>game in the past few years. If you do feel SR is going the wrong way, all I
>can tell you is to fill out your product response cards and let FASA know
what
>you like and what you don't like. And, as Bull pointed out, send in a product
>proposal or two.
Actually, Steve, I think it's mostly just your normal bitchin' and moanin'
that is common on any list. I think most people are generally happy with
what FASA is doing, but I think that there are those that are nervous about
what will happen next. IE's and the like are being pushed back to the
background; will FASA stop in time to prevent them from being totally
eliminated from canon? That's the worry methinks.
>Okay, back to work on the magic stuff.
<sound of whip crack>
Get back to work MagicBoy!
</sound of whip crack>
BTW, Steve, do you know the status on the new addition to the Mulvihill
family?
The last time we heard big non-game news out of FASA it was the death of
Nigel; I think many of us here would like to congratulate Mike and Sharon
on a more happy occassion for FASA. I already did, sneaking it into
another e-mail I sent him.
Hey, maybe we could do like what we did with Nigel and have Adam send a
"list card," an e-mail expressing our congratulations from the entire list
in one e-mail.
Put my name on the "e-card" anyway.
Erik J.
Resepected Elders Relaxation Resort Activites Director
"Hey, how about a game of first edition using only the Blue Book?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:28:20 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Vagabond <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: How much down time?
Content-Type: text/plain
>Questions for the list:
>
>How much downtime do your characters usually have between runs?
Sometimes it's a 3 days, or can be up to 3 months. Depending on my
mood, the weather, the state of the world, etc..
Usually, though, I give them enough time to heal from their
wounds... usually <EGMG>
>
>How many runs per game year do your groups fit in?
Depends on the first question. :) To be honest, I never really
counted...
>
>What is the average grade of initiacy that your magically actives
attain?
Since my group is about as magically active as Madator, there are
only a couple of characters my PCs have that they have kept long enough
to initiate(they make mages in Assets, Inc look like salty vetrans). I
think none of them are above Grade 1 or 2.
>
>How about average skill rating. ie: Lots of sixes and higher? Sixes
and
>lower?
SInce like to keep my games low-power, nothing usually goes higher
than six, some of the higher karma characters have one or two 8s, but
that's rare.
>
>Just trying to get a feel for where people are at. Probably all over
>the map, but I'd appreciate your input on this.
LIke I said, I like to keep my PCs low-power(I'm *extremely*
anti-munchkin to the point of paranoia<g>). Usually if a PC makes the
100 karma mark, I tell them it's time to think about retirement.
However, after talkin to some folks on the list and IRC, I'm thinkin
about extending that mark just to see what happens.
-Vagabond
"Under wandering stars I've grown"
________________________________________________________
<nomad74@*******.com> <ICQ 4297972>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:33:09 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Traveling Quiz
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, Ereskanti wrote;
>I'm bored, don't have to work today, so I'm gonna take up MC23's "Poll" for
>the fun of it.
<dripping sarcasm>
Oh thank you
</dripping sarcasm>
Maybe I should have questioned power level as well. Being able to go
head to head (more or less) with IE's hardly falls within the standard
scope of most campaigns and I couldn't imagine one such as yours limited
to one city anyway.
Now with that out of the way, how many of the traditional street
level campaigns involve travel?
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:39:55 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Michael Broadwater wrote:
>>Wow, I've seen some trolls in my time, but that was one of the more
>>annoying.
>
>Don't you hate it when you snip to much?
>
>"And if you'll look closely the top of an X looks like the top of a
>Y. So a Y is a different looking X, and vice versa. So from one
>viewpoint, "X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
>different." works."
>
>Is what I was refering to. And, to clarify my point, while David meant
>this as humor (I think), this is illogical, and he knows it (or should).
>The only possible reason you make an arguement like this is to get people
>to keep arguing. The cake analogy makes more sense. I'd like to see
>anyone get through a math or logic course using the previous statement.
Heh - one of the things that I learned in my logic courses at UW
was that you can build logical systems to prove whatever you want.
It's just a matter of choosing appropriate axioms to derive the
rest of the system from, and then convincing everybody that those
were the right axioms to choose... :-)
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:37:36 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: ILs
In-Reply-To: <199805071923.NAA00492@******.carl.org> from "Erik Jameson"
at
May 7, 98 03:15:13 pm
Content-Type: text
Erik Jameson wrote:
/
/ At 07:39 AM 5/7/98 -0600, you wrote:
/
/ >/ Is this becoming an Immortal Listmembers thread now?
/ >/
/ >/ Damn IL's are behind everything!
/ >
/ >Yes, yes we are ;)
/ >
/ >(Think about it.)
/
/ Please, please don't do that again. I nearly starting laughing out loud in
/ the middle of the office. As is was, one of the people walking by couldn't
/ understand why I had this huge idiot grin on my face and silently chuckling.
:) Sorry 'bout that. You think you've got it bad, my desk faces all
of my employees (kinda like a classroom). Every now and then I
realize that I've had a stupid grin on my face for at least five
minutes because of something I'm reading from ShadowRN. My employees just
think I'm a happy guy :)
/ Buying more grenades, are we?
By the truckload.
-David
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:41:05 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
In-Reply-To: <199805071902.NAA29547@******.carl.org> from "Michael
Broadwater"
at May 7, 98 02:01:23 pm
Content-Type: text
Michael Broadwater wrote:
/
/ >At 07:51 AM 5/7/98 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:
/
/ Don't you hate it when you snip to much?
/
/ >"And if you'll look closely the top of an X looks like the top of a
/ >Y. So a Y is a different looking X, and vice versa. So from one
/ >viewpoint, "X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
/ >different." works."
/
/ Is what I was refering to. And, to clarify my point, while David meant
/ this as humor (I think), this is illogical, and he knows it (or should).
/ The only possible reason you make an arguement like this is to get people
/ to keep arguing. The cake analogy makes more sense. I'd like to see
/ anyone get through a math or logic course using the previous statement.
Sorry. Wasn't meant to be a troll. Although James and I are in a
lively private conversation :)
And my defense would be that I've been getting into philosophy quite
a bit lately.
-David
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:43:02 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, Erik Jameson wrote;
>The reason why I didn't like it was that you had to know an extra number
>for all damage and drain codes. It wasn't a huge problem, but it wasn't as
>clean or as elegant as the standard staging of two for SR2. And SR1
>physads with autosuccesses with melee attacks were just hell-on-wheels;
>hardly anybody could beat one in melee. Of course, in SR2 physads are a
>bit wimpy for my taste, so I'm hoping they will be powered up in SR3.
I could never accept that the variable staging didn't hinder you
while it helped you. Sure a staging 4 was a bitch to save down but it was
just as much hell to stage up! What's the use in that? When 2nd edition
came out we were happy. Only the Karma Pool would later become our bane
(and we even award Karma sparingly when compared to others).
>Respected Elders Relaxation Resort Activities Director
>
>"Hey, how about a game of first edition using only the Blue Book?"
First printing hardback or 3rd printing perfect bound?
B>]#
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:49:06 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Gurth wrote:
>> Armor reducing power was a good idea, though, rather than automatic
>> resistance successes. (Heretic, I know. I'm not *THAT* old, just 26.).
>
>A combination of the two would work very well, I think -- keep the revised
>Power Levels of SRII and the way armor works, but add in the Staging rules
>of SR1.
This sounds like a net.project - converting all the new goodies over
to SR1 damage codes...
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:46:26 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Traveling Quiz
In-Reply-To: <199805071936.NAA01074@******.carl.org> from "MC23" at May
7,
98 03:33:09 pm
Content-Type: text
MC23 wrote:
/
/ Now with that out of the way, how many of the traditional street
/ level campaigns involve travel?
Mine is kinda 50/50. I'll run a home game, followed by an away game, and
then back home again, not necessarily in that order :)
To date the away games have been in: NYC, a run involving a
continental run across North America, an island north of Norway, Tir
Na Og (Celtic Doublecross), Chicago, and Denver.
I like the away adventures because it takes the runners off their
home turf and shakes them up. Sure, in Seattle everything is peaches
and cream (respectivley). Send em to another city and they've gotta
be quick thinkers.
In the future they'll be going to Hawaii and Washington DC.
-David
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:48:40 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
In-Reply-To: <199805071939.NAA01286@******.carl.org> from "Ojaste,James
[NCR]"
at May 7, 98 03:39:55 pm
Content-Type: text
Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote:
/
/ Michael Broadwater wrote:
/ >>Wow, I've seen some trolls in my time, but that was one of the more
/ >>annoying.
/ >
/ >Don't you hate it when you snip to much?
/ >
/ >"And if you'll look closely the top of an X looks like the top of a
/ >Y. So a Y is a different looking X, and vice versa. So from one
/ >viewpoint, "X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
/ >different." works."
/ >
/ >Is what I was refering to. And, to clarify my point, while David meant
/ >this as humor (I think), this is illogical, and he knows it (or should).
/ >The only possible reason you make an arguement like this is to get people
/ >to keep arguing. The cake analogy makes more sense. I'd like to see
/ >anyone get through a math or logic course using the previous statement.
/
/ Heh - one of the things that I learned in my logic courses at UW
/ was that you can build logical systems to prove whatever you want.
/ It's just a matter of choosing appropriate axioms to derive the
/ rest of the system from, and then convincing everybody that those
/ were the right axioms to choose... :-)
Or in my case, plain old Xioms :-D
-David-who's-agoin-straight-to-hell-for-that-one
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:50:11 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Hedley <hedley@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Farts Club
In-Reply-To: <l03110703b176ec5e6b28@[100.100.100.10]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hedley - Age: 34 years. Three daughters; ages 15, 14, and 14 months. No
wonder I have so little time for gaming anymore...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:13:40 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <runefo@***.uio.no>
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Organization: The University of Oslo
Subject: Re: How much down time?
In-Reply-To: <21a16bef.3551b46c@***.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> > Questions for the list:
> >
> > How much downtime do your characters usually have between runs?
Varies. Lately about two weeks, but they're in a 'long haul
continuous assignment' at the moment, so it'll be as soon as they're
back on their feet.
> > How many runs per game year do your groups fit in?
Varies. A lot. Between 10 and 50, I'd say. Depends what you mean with
a run as well.
> > What is the average grade of initiacy that your magically actives attain?
*ponder*
1
(The only really long campaign the runners were in, there was no
mages.).
> > How about average skill rating. ie: Lots of sixes and higher? Sixes and
> > lower?
1 at 7+,
the rest at 3 or 6.
(3-4 skills at 6, 0-3 at 3 is common.).
(Discounting physad skills).
> > Just trying to get a feel for where people are at. Probably all over
> > the map, but I'd appreciate your input on this.
Physically we're located in Norway. The characters are in Seattle
(Of course) but sometimes goes to other places.
--
Fade
And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:56:13 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lander Williams <lander@****.WAVE.CA>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the SingleShadowrunner(t
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>hmm... how DOES 5D4 work as a damage code?
>
>Well, it acts just like 5D, except that instead of every 2 successes
>staging the damage up or down, it takes 4 successes.
>
>So, to apply this knowledge practically, if you had a newbie runner
>who wasn't very accurate with a pistol, you'd want something with
>a high staging (to make it less likely that the target could stage
>it away, as you'd probably get fewer successes). An expert, however,
>would probably choose a weapon with a low staging on the expectation
>that they'd get more successes than the opponent, and so they'd get
>to stage the damage up.
after i posted i sorta figured it, tho the confirmation doe much for my
poor ego :)
>It basically allows for a more intelligent choice of weapons than
>"I'll grab a heavy pistol - which one doesn't matter, 'cause they're
>all 9M"...
<nods> i dont really like that.. boring :)
>More weapon variety, more weapon personality - it's a much cooler
>system and I hope that they switch back to it in SR3 (though unlikely,
>I'll admit).
i like it.. ill have to dig up stuff on it (i.e. weapon charts)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:58:07 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
In-Reply-To: <199805071944.PAA12371@******.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
On 7 May 98 at 15:43, MC23 wrote:
> I could never accept that the variable staging didn't hinder you
> while it helped you. Sure a staging 4 was a bitch to save down but
> it was just as much hell to stage up! What's the use in that?
That brings back a memory. I friend of mine who I was trying to get
interested in Shadowrun brought up the same point. We argued forever
about that. The way I see it, is that a high staging typically
equalizes the damage at its base value. A weapon with a low staging
slides up and down more easily, so is more variable.
I still prefer the variety of variable staging, but I do understand
why they changed it.
> When 2nd edition came out we were happy. Only the Karma Pool would later
> become our bane (and we even award Karma sparingly when compared to
> others).
Yes. I couldn't get him to play until SR2 came out. I didn't tell him
I was still using SR1 Karma rules, though. :)
--
=================================================================
-DREKHEAD- drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
==================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 21:58:41 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <runefo@***.uio.no>
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Organization: The University of Oslo
Subject: Re: Shadowrun without magic?
In-Reply-To: <40bee567.3551caea@***.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Shit that one wasn't supposed to go to the list.
Sorry guys.
--
Fade
And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 21:57:56 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <runefo@***.uio.no>
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Organization: The University of Oslo
Subject: Re: Shadowrun without magic?
In-Reply-To: <40bee567.3551caea@***.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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> Okay, back to work on the magic stuff.
>
> Take care,
> Steve
For my part it seemed Shadowrun was heading towards 'Earthdawn 2060'
which, in my opinion, wasn't good at all. I prefer the 'corporate',
darker world which isn't as 'epic', but a lot more challenging.. and
satisfying.
Keep up the good work!
--
Fade
And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:08:44 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
MC23 wrote:
>>The reason why I didn't like it was that you had to know an extra number
>>for all damage and drain codes. It wasn't a huge problem, but it wasn't as
>>clean or as elegant as the standard staging of two for SR2. And SR1
>>physads with autosuccesses with melee attacks were just hell-on-wheels;
>>hardly anybody could beat one in melee. Of course, in SR2 physads are a
>>bit wimpy for my taste, so I'm hoping they will be powered up in SR3.
>
> I could never accept that the variable staging didn't hinder you
>while it helped you. Sure a staging 4 was a bitch to save down but it was
>just as much hell to stage up! What's the use in that? When 2nd edition
Well, if you expect to be able the hit the target, but not well,
then you want to make it as tough as possible for the target to
stage it down.
On the other hand, if you're really good you want a staging of 1,
so you can stage that sucker up so high that the target can't stage
it back down agin.
>came out we were happy. Only the Karma Pool would later become our bane
>(and we even award Karma sparingly when compared to others).
The KP rules need work. Lots of work.
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:10:57 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Panther <qmilton@**.NET>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980506134113.284fbbbe@**********.com>
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>
> This was even true of magicians, though in a different way. They
> had their life pretty much taken up by being a magician. You either
> dedicated your life to it, were defined by being a magician, or you
> were not. If you were not, you might do some magic, but you'd never
> reach anything like your real potential. Obsession was not really
> optional.
That's just it. Physads, when played correctly, have the same (or at
least similar) obsession that mages have. Take a look at todays
martial artists and athletes for example. They are CONSTANTLY
training. At least the ones that are actually serious about it
(those also have a distinct tendency to be the best at what they do).
THAT is the price that physads pay, the time and effort spent in
training, to keep their bodies and minds honed to a razor sharp edge.
Take a break (or even quit) training, and they lose that edge.
And the concept of bioware actually seems kinda realistic to me. It
makes sense, IMO. :)
Pantherr
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:19:35 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Vehicle Economy (was RE: What is a CF?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Throughout the chassis/engine rules, they seem to forget about
small/micro
>rotordrones (the kind that fit into the palm of your hand). That's the
>only way I can reason that under one of the fuel entries, the list that
all
>rotor drones can carry that same 120 liters of fuel. From the micro to
the
>mansized. And within that drone, would there be room for the engine,
the
>sensors, that CF of cargo space that you allegedly have, and any other
>goodies that would come standard?
>
Hey, what about it, Jon? Got some micro/mini vehicle construction rules
hanging around somewhere or being compiled for some future upcoming
release?
Tony Rabiola rabiola@**.netcom.com
Fourth and Sixth World Adept
Still working on the Fifth...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:18:50 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: How much down time?
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Once upon a time, Robert Nesius wrote;
>Questions for the list:
>
>How much downtime do your characters usually have between runs?
We have a tendancy to use a rough real time catch up method. so what ever
it takes after a story arc to catch up with current real month is how
long it takes. Easy way to keep up with seasons that way. When there is
alternating campaigns the catch up downtime can be quite a lot.
>How many runs per game year do your groups fit in?
Couldn't even guess
>What is the average grade of initiacy that your magically actives attain?
We might have had a second grade in one of the campaigns
>How about average skill rating. ie: Lots of sixes and higher? Sixes and
>lower?
I think I had a 7 once but Cavalier is no longer alive to use it.
>Just trying to get a feel for where people are at. Probably all over
>the map, but I'd appreciate your input on this.
The three different campaigns had us in either Seattle, Charlotte or New
Orleans.
I should also point out that our games here typically reward 2-3 pts of
Karma per game session. I think that puts us on the stingy side but it
works just great for us.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:12:02 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Earl ClayIII <phoenixflare@*******.COM>
Subject: Shasdowrun: Off course! (loong!)
Content-Type: text/plain
I think FASA (Mulvihill specifically) is quite a bit off lately.
Mulvihill seems to basically hate the game we all love & wants to make
all these drastic changes to make it more "his" game as opposed to
Dowd's. While he's certainly done some cool stuff, (Companion) he's also
made some choices ranging from simply a little bland (Corp War thing-
who cares?) all the way to near-disastrous (Rigger 2- so complicated it
makes riggers near unuseable). A few points:
* Magic- without it, the game is Cyberpunk with different rules, NOT
Shadowrun. The world would be nothing the same. Howling Coyote would be
in a camp, as would all the few surviving Injuns. They would NOT have
been able to get nukes or whatnot except for magic's help. Even had they
the atmosphere would be shot to hell. Same for the Tir's, Aztlan,
Saeder-Krupp, et al. Shadowrun's defining characteristic may well be the
bizarre & sinister mix of magic & machine. Quit screwing with magic,
FASA. Don't fix what ain't broken. If you find magic too powerful, step
up the competition, or tone down what mojo players get. I have played
since the day 1st ed. came out & have yet to have ONE person earn
initiation... See also the new rules for metamagic in the Companion.
* Cyber- bioware shouldn't let players off easy since it should be hell
to get, not to mention it usually has side effects. Physads pay dearly
for their power & don't get as powerful as a sam. The point is, sure
you're supposed to pay for your edge but if you handle it right, so does
everybody.
* Horrors, IE's & the Tirs, oh my!- I thought these were neat but only
in real limited quantity. They are way overused now. Ditto all the super
high level epic scale stuff. We're lousy plex rats... we have no part in
this stuff. It's only fun to deal with omnipotent stuff if you're
omnipotent enough to compete... which runners should not be.
* Non-shadowrunner campaigns- Theses are already way out of hand. Cool
as a diversion, but ultimately a distraction from the point. We really
don't need these 'other types of games' that keep pushing... can anyone
say, 'Cyberpirates'? They can't do a Japan book, but they do give us
'Blood in the Boardroom'... great.
There's my dollar ninety-fine worth... if I seem a little harsh, it's
just because I love ya Mulvihill, & I'd hate to see Shadowrun go the way
of 'Vampire"...
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:30:43 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun without magic?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>There have been many posts and speculations on the list recently to the
effect
>that "FASA is reducing/removing magic from Shadowrun." Speaking as the
guy who
>is hard at work on the Magic chapter for Shadowrun 3 and what will
probably be
>the largest Magic Sourcebook Shadowrun has ever seen, I have to tell
you that
>nothing could be further from the truth.
>
Coolness! We've already got some terrific SB's for magic the way it
is, and a big new one to go with SR3 should be a treat, if it is larger
to provide more clarifications and examples.
>FASA and Mike Mulvihill know full well that the magic/fantasy elements
of
>Shadowrun are some of the game's greatest strengths, that seperated SR
from
>all the other "cyber/dark future" RPGs. There is NO plan to remove
magic from
>SR.
>
I was thinking that was a off-hand comment that developed a life of its
own...
>There is an effort to balance the fantasy elements with more
technology,
>politics, corporate action, and such. As people have pointed out, there
was a
>point where every major event in the Sixth World was triggered by a
>spirit/dragon/immortal elf, and that took away from the other things
that are
>cool about Shadowrun, like the Matrix, cybertech, the corps and all
that other
>stuff. Products like Cyberpirates and Blood in the Boardroom are
addressing
>that.
>
Cyberpirates rocks! Just let me get those cocky PC's out on a ship
island-hopping and see how tough they are...(grin)
>I'm disappointed by the number of folks who think FASA isn't heading in
the
>right direction with Shadowrun. I've been very proud to work with Mike
on the
>game in the past few years. If you do feel SR is going the wrong way,
all I
>can tell you is to fill out your product response cards and let FASA
know what
>you like and what you don't like. And, as Bull pointed out, send in a
product
>proposal or two.
>
I think it is more to do with just change in general, Steve, though all
of us probably have particular feelings on where we would like to see
our favorite game go. Keep up the quality and listen to the consumers,
life FASA always has, and things will be fine.
>Okay, back to work on the magic stuff.
>
That's the spirit!
Tony Rabiola rabiola@**.netcom.com
Fourth and Sixth World Adept
Still working on the Fifth...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:32:15 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Panther <qmilton@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980506143404.266fa06a@****.fbiz.com>
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>
> Hey, maybe we should start an old man's club on RN, gotta be at
> least 25 or older. You could put "RN Geriatric Brigade" or
> something in your .sig and be allowed one post per thread going on
> about "back in my day, we didn't have the Internet, we had to read
> RN with smoke signals..."
Gee, in only four more years I could be a part of that.....
Pantherr
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:53:18 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: RP Karma award (was Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks))
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET> wrote:
>
> |> Subject: RP Karma award (was Re: Sex & the Single
Shadowrunner(thanks))
>
> |> > I personally dislike the RP karma award, since it's...
rewarding the
> |> > character for something the player should be doing anyway.
> |> Roleplaying is,
> |> > after all, the point of this game. It doesn't make sense for
> |> a character
> |> > to gain experience and 'luck' because he is so completely
> |> 'himself' that day.
>
> Well, I don't see it that way at all, but this is a valid
viewepoint I
> guess. I see it as a case of rewarding the PLAYER for playing his part
> correctly. If you view it as a reward to the player, rather than the
> character, then reward for staying in character makes sense. True,
as you
> say, role-playing is the point of the game, ergo it should be
encouraged and
> rewarded.
I agree whole heartedly with Katt on this one, in fact I was just
discussing this with Loki the other day. Basically a RP award is
given out on rare occasions in my group and then generally to the more
munchkinous of the group as a way to offer positive reinforcment of a
learned behavior...much like training a dog, it lets the person know
that "Hey the rest of the group thought that I did a bang up job, I
should do it some more." Over the years it has greatly enhanced the
amount of good roleplaying that we get from members of our group. I
can honestly say now, and I realize without playing with most of you
on the list, that I feel we have one of the best RP based gaming
groups in Phoenix...and of all the ones I have witnessed/played in
certainly the best regular SR game. Now I admit that this is biased
and I have by no means had direct interaction with even most of the SR
games out there, but going off of some horror stories that I have
heard and lived through myself...life is good right now and RP karma
awards helped get us there.
Caric-the-damn-I-can-run-at-the-mouth-sometimes-shaman
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 17:06:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, Drekhead wrote;
>Yes. I couldn't get him to play until SR2 came out. I didn't tell him
>I was still using SR1 Karma rules, though. :)
With my new campaign I've gone back as well. Karma Pools cannot be saved
IMNSHO.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:07:21 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
> > Armor reducing power was a good idea, though, rather than automatic
> > resistance successes. (Heretic, I know. I'm not *THAT* old, just 26.).
>
> A combination of the two would work very well, I think -- keep the
revised
> Power Levels of SRII and the way armor works, but add in the Staging
rules
> of SR1.
I agree (and I'm not even an old guy <g>). After all, which bullet is
going to be easier to shrug off: the hold out pistol bullet the size of
the last joint of my pinky, or the coke-can sized shell of a Panther
Cannon? Sure, that's partially damage code, but its a lot easier to miss
vital organs with a tiny shell that leaves a small hole than a huge shell
that leaves a hole the size of a basketball.
***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
"Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn lasts
forever"
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
"Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo the
better part of humor."
aka Ellegon, Working at making Cannon canon
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are crunchy
and good with ketchup."
--------[Geek Code Block]-----------
GED/GSS d- s++:+ a-- C++ W w+ PS+.5 PE- Y+ t+
5+ X+ R*+.5 !tv+ b+.5 DI+ D- G e h !r-- !y+
-------[End Geek Code Block]-------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 17:08:36 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Brian Moore <mooreb@****.FAC.COM>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980506182447.006924b0@***.mindspring.com> from
"Joshua Bell" at May 6, 98 06:24:47 pm
Content-Type: text
Joshua Bell <joshbell@**********.COM> said:
> Brian Moore wrote:
> >And yes it is a good way to make money. But there are even more abusive
> >ways to make money using Enchanting. A decent enchanter can make a Force
> >3 Power Focus in a week or two, worth around 300knY, or 90knY at 30%
> >"wholesale price". There really isn't a good way to handle PC
enchanters
> >given how easy it is to create IMHO significantly overpriced foci. IMC,
> >my mage is the only PC enchanter, and he only makes foci for the members
> >of his (PC) Initiatory group. He charges for the foci, but usually less
> >that 25% retail cost and time spent bodyguarding.
>
> I agree. there are several, make that dozens of ways to abuse the plain
> rules of shadowrun. That is why there is a GM so that there is "suspense",
> Continuity, and rules.
Agreed. And this area is definitely one that requires GM supervision.
There is simply too big of a difference between the cost to make focus and
the sale price.
> However, the example of making Orichalcum dosen't cost the mage/shaman any
> good karma, just 44,000 nuyen and 1 month. Making Foci takes time,
> materials, AND karma.
Making foci takes less time and materials, and it doesn't have to cost
Karma.
Making foci usually takes less time than Orichalcum. The absolute time
for Orichalcum is 28 days, no matter what. The base time for any focus
is 30 days, but that is devided by the number of enchanting successes.
(This is ignoring the one time cost for creating or purchasing the focus
design.) A decent enchanter making a reasonably low level focus will
usually take 1 to 2 weeks.
Making foci usually takes less materials. Orichalcum requires 4 specific
radicals (gold, silver, mercury, and copper). Availability and street
index don't exist for radicals (that's a big oversight), so the GM decides
what those numbers are. My mage ended up making half of the radicals from
refined materials because he couldn't find anyone willing to sell the
radicals. And some of those refined materials came from raw materials he
had to gather himself, because no one had any to sell. But a focus can be
made with just the material basis (a stick or a rock will do). Additional
materials (any herb, crystal, or metal radicals) help, and they are easier
to find, far cheaper, and can often be interchanged.
And the big one... Foci DO NOT require the enchanter to pay any karma. The
First Binding karma cost can be paid by the enchanter and/or the person to
receive the focus.
> So even though you can make more money by creating foci, it is a personal
> choice as to weather it is a better way.
True. The big question is whether or not the enchanter can find a steady
supply of customers interested in foci and available at a days notice
(to pay the karma cost RIGHT AFTER the item is finished). If not,
Orichalcum is a better money-maker. But find the right fixer/talismonger
with a large enough customer base, and an enchanter has it made.
--
Brian Moore, mooreb@***.com | I wrote up a nice script to truncate all News&
First Albany Corp. Sysadmin | Mail sigs that are greater than 4 lines long.
standard disclaimers apply | It is still in beta testing due to an off-by-
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 17:08:26 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
OK guys this topic is getting worn thin. It's over.
MC23, ShadowRN GridSec Vigilante
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:11:13 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
> Once upon a time, Drekhead wrote;
>
> >Yes. I couldn't get him to play until SR2 came out. I didn't tell him
> >I was still using SR1 Karma rules, though. :)
>
> With my new campaign I've gone back as well. Karma Pools cannot be saved
> IMNSHO.
Can someone give me a run-down on 1st ed Karma rules? I need to find a
BBlB, it seems...
***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
"Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn lasts
forever"
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
"Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo the
better part of humor."
aka Ellegon, Working at making Cannon canon
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are crunchy
and good with ketchup."
--------[Geek Code Block]-----------
GED/GSS d- s++:+ a-- C++ W w+ PS+.5 PE- Y+ t+
5+ X+ R*+.5 !tv+ b+.5 DI+ D- G e h !r-- !y+
-------[End Geek Code Block]-------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:13:08 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Re: Tournament GMing
In-Reply-To: <19980506110341453.AAA279@*********.gj.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> I know a couple of people here have... *GRAcoughNITE*
I'm here..I'm here..I had to go to training today [my day off-CPR
and Verbal Judo]..Or I would have answered already..Well here goes..
> At 07:29 PM 5/4/98 -0400, Erik Jameson wrote these timeless words:
> >Okay, I've finally decided that I will GM Shadowrun at the San Diego Comic
> >Con.
Excellent..Keep in mind that most people's greatest fear is speaking
in front of a group..Guess what..That is exactly what you will be
doing..and this group will expect you to entertain them..Sounds
bad..but It isn't all that bad..
>Not many of you actually care, I know.
First things first..That is quite enough of the negativity..No
more..you are the GM..You must be more positive..Or your experience
will not be as great as it should..
> >...... I can GM acceptably well
> >(while I occassionaly forget rules here and there, my players love my
> >playacting of the NPCs, especially Johnny Rotten the fixer), but that's
> >almost always been a group of friends or mostly friends.
Sounds like you are qualified..You are on your way..
> >So does anyone have any advice?
Remember..you asked for it..
>>Any web pages that give pointers to this
> >sort of thing (like maybe GenCon's page)?
Here is GenCon's page:
http://www.andonunlimited.com/CONS/GEN98/index.htm
Not sure if it will be the help you hope it will but there it is
anyway..
>>Anybody actually out there GMed
> >for a tournament or convention?
Yes..I have at GenCon [FASA Tourneys] and at SunQuest..
> >I imagine I probably should have enough pre-generated PCs for everyone, in
> >a mix that's appropriate.
If you do not..you will loose most of your time ti character
generation..
>> And a pile of dice.
Yes..But be careful about lending them out as they are small and
have a tendency to walk away..
>> All the sourcebooks I'll
> >need.
Yup...But only the ones that pertain to the adventure at hand..
>> Caffiene. Several writing utensils and note paper.
Yup..and yup..
>> My GM screen
> >since I have one (I think it's actually a SR1 screen too, but I haven't
> >used it in a while; I keep forgetting it and it's not terribly important
> >anyway; I don't use much written material anyway).
A very important piece of GM equipment which I also have trouble
remembering to bring with me..I do not really use it for the
tables..It is camo for what you are doing behind it..
>> Can anyone think of
> >anything else?
I'll give more explicit suggestions at the end..
> If your lucky, you'll get a group of creative players (I think at least 75%
> of all Con Players are at least semi-decent players, in my experience...
> Unfortunately the other 25% of them make up for this :( ). And creative
> players are experts at completely trashing an adventure by doing the
> totally unexpected.
Well I thing Bull has had different experiances..I have had about 95%
good players..and 5 % bad ones..but the bad ones have been REALLY
BAD..and the good more like excellent..My biggest piece of advice
about good players..If they head off into a different direction..Let
them..everyone will have a better time..As for Bad ones..If they
start getting out of hand Players bickering and such..-put a stop to
it imediately-..Let them know that the gaming table is not the place
for that sort of behavior..if they refuse to stop and it gets
impossible to run the game..stop the game..there is no reason you
have to put up with a bunch of arses..
OK..Now for the straight poop..
1]have your adventure written and prepared well in advance of the
convention [when you are writing it keep in mind players never do the
expected and leave yourself room to maneuver the group back on
course] figure out how difficult you want the game to be and write to
that level..
2] Write your game to fill a 4 hour slot..most cons allot gaming in 4
hour chunks..So be prepared to start and finish in that amount of
time because someone else is going to want your table after you..to
this end wear a watch..If you are getting close start cutting stuff
out..
3] When you are writing try and leave the PCs lots of apparent
options..that way you lend the appearance of allowing free will when
in actuality all paths lead to the same conclusions..
4] Generate all of the PCs and have copies for the players..Most Con
gaming is for approx 6 players..If you want to allow a greater
amount of choice for the players..generate more than enough PCs and
let them choose..this way you will end up with a surprise as to the
group composition..as well as allowing for player personalities
to be expressed better with more comfortable PCs..Give each of the
PCs a short bio..and perhaps include a quick what they think of the
other PCs as well..Create characters that will be able to accomplish
the goals you have set..but create them to have to struggle a bit to
do it..no struggle no fun..Never allow outside PCs into your game
99.99% of the time they will completely unbalance the entire
game..and the last thing you need are even more surprises..
5] Know your adventure forwards and back..that way when your group
takes a weird turn you will be able to better improvise..
6] have at least a fair grasp of the rules..And don't use house
rules..if you do tell the players first thing..Personally I try and
never use any kind of house rules in the convention setting that way
everyone that is familiar with the rules will have no problem playing
in my game..
7] ham it up..If you make a fool of yourself..you will never see
these people again..so ..so what..Have fun..Go wild..if you are
getting into the game then it is a lot easier for the group to get
into it..
8] have the group introduce themselves and their character to the
group after they have read the bio..this helps break the ice a little
and helps you keep in mind who is playing what character..But
don't let this go on too long you only have 4 hours..It is also
helpful to use name tents with space for character and player names..
9] there are any number of props you may use..don't bring anything
dangerous..I use a dry erase board..my particular fav..you can pick
up some really small ones at Wal-Mart, and like stores, that pack
nicely into a suitcase..And I usually use counters from a pente' game
for PC and NPC position marking on my drawings..
10] Do your darndest to keep -all- of the players involved..make the
effort to try and drawn in players that seem to be just sitting
there..
11] Don't forget to bring your GM screen..And essential piece of
equipment..
12] FUDGE..Do not get bogged down in dice..Oh don't get me
wrong..pick up a great big handful and roll them around..but don't
feel tied to their results..do what is going to make a better
game..and will be more cinematic..After all you will not be seeing
these people again and you can afford to give them bigger breaks..You
want them to leave your table excited and gibbering about what a good
time they had..
13] skip 13 I don't like that number..
14] Much better..hmm I'm running out of off the top advice..Have a
good time yourself..if it seems like work to you your players are not
having fun either..
15] Be prepared..Yea..I know this is in here more than once..That is
because it is important..
16] Make sure you complete whatever your obligations to the
con..stuff like collecting tickets is real important to them..and if
you want to play in their sandbox you have to play by their rules..
17] When the game is done..let the players know you had a good time
and that you hope they did too..this lets them know you care about
what you are doing..and that you care that they had a good time..
Well that will have to do for now..I can't think of anything else
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
Kind of a bummer. Gettin' your butt kicked by a dead guy.
- Lt Col McQueen
Understanding is a three edged sword. - Kosh
What do Klingons dream about?
Things that would send cold chills
down your spine...It is better you
did not know.
- Major Norece to Commander Worf
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:04:04 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---MC23 <mc23@**********.COM> wrote:
>
> Once upon a time, Erik Jameson wrote;
>
> >>Maybe we should start our own rest home.
> >
> >Hey, it could be like Gurth's Stairs, but only us old folks are
allowed in.
> > We could play shuffle board and cribbage and gum our meals!
>
> Screw that "old man," I'll stay out here until the Ragnorok Of
> Flamewars finally takes me, never wavering to the end!
> B>]#
I think that MC23 was a viking berserker in a former life. :) I say
we all go senile and that way we can go on the same run over and over
and over....what was i saying?
Caric-the-*almost*-old-enough-to-join-the-home-but-thinks-there-should-be-an-acception-made-for-him-since-he's-already-lost-tongue-conrol-shaman
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:16:32 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Dice Pools
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Dice pools always seemed to be to be a way to get things that should be
part of performing an action as part of an action. After all, the only
way your Sorcery skill impacts Sorcery is through your Magic Pool, and you
Quickness has nothing to do with a skilled firefight... except through the
Combat Pool.
What I'm wondering, though, is if anyone has any other pools they
regularly use, like social pools or athletic pools described in the
Companion, and what they consist of.
***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
"Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn lasts
forever"
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
"Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo the
better part of humor."
aka Ellegon, Working at making Cannon canon
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are crunchy
and good with ketchup."
--------[Geek Code Block]-----------
GED/GSS d- s++:+ a-- C++ W w+ PS+.5 PE- Y+ t+
5+ X+ R*+.5 !tv+ b+.5 DI+ D- G e h !r-- !y+
-------[End Geek Code Block]-------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 22:04:15 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Rigger tank? [was Re : Ridreless blitzen]
In-Reply-To: <354E4046.5364@**********.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
At 04-Mai-98 wrote Wafflemeisters:
>> But this gives me a few ideas ...
>> What's the CF / cost for a full rigger tank? I think the "rigger
>> adaptation" in R2 just represents the computer systems needed to
>> interface with a VCR.
>>
> What is a "rigger tank"? The rigger does not need any special
>seating,
>etc, to rig. If he wants saftey seating, and such, those are available
>in both rigger books. If you really are ludicrously safety concious,
>rig from a "Stabilization Unit"- basic book, biotech equipment. It's
>given a weight, and I'd say it ocupies as much space as a bed or
>non-folding bench seat.
A Rigger tank was indroduced in the novel, the one with Alamis, Nightspaw=
n
IIRC
Its a tube like thing in which the rigger lays down, sudpended by gel pac=
ks
and so
to cut of all outside sensory input, the rigger can only sense and comuni=
cate
over his rig. I use this a long time in my game.
Rigger tank: cost 30000 ¥
CF 15
boni +1d6 ini, every action takes half time, complex->simp=
le
simple->1/2 simple
Avail Military
-- =
Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Did you know what a rhinoceros is?
All that is left from the unicorn.
http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 22:58:45 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Sex and the single shadowrunner?
In-Reply-To:
<cÊ%a=GOVMT.CANADA%p=GC+EC%lìNCR_EXCH2-980506135811Z-96786@***.ncr.ec.gc.ca
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 06-Mai-98 wrote Ojaste,James [NCR]:
ROTFLMAORH
>Base damage done is (Charisma)L. Every two net successes stage by
>one level. The skill used is a special skill, defaulting to Charisma
>at +2. Base TN of 2.
>I hate to do this, but nothing clarifies a new rule like an example...
>Alicia boinks Bob.
>Alicia has a Sex skill of 4, a Cha of 5 and a Will of 3.
>Bob has no Sex skill, a Cha of 3 and a Will of 5.
hmm, trying to follow this....
Cha 35 skill 20, will 4...
NASTY
>>Does that mean Barbie could kill with sex?!
>Let's see - you'd need at least 14 net successes... Of course, you'd
>have to be pretty brave to get intimate with a panther in the first
>place. Having just seen "Cat People" a couple of weeks ago I don't
>think I'd want to try... ;-)
Yes, she can and actually has....
Not in this way since she has somewhat `changed`, you can call it died.
The panther thing is over, been a Succubus/dream spirit with essence
drain power makes the killing much more easy ;-)
--
Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Did you know what a rhinoceros is?
All that is left from the unicorn.
http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:47:41 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Cyberware Power Sources
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Cyberware Power Sources (Was Re: Cyberware: Where do you put the bateries?)
(SThanatos , Wed 18:33)
> >In my musings for today I was contemplating cyberware. I wondered how all
> >of these neat little devices got the power they need to run. Does wired
> >reflexes have a battery pack? If so why isn't it listed so I as a GM can
> >rule that it shorted out at a most inoportune time <display evil_grin>.?.
<tounge in cheek>
I always assumed it drew power from its essence cost, turning essence
sustaining lifeforce into electricty directly.
</tounge in cheek>
> Standardly, neurons produce a charge of 700
> milliwatts in a non-active state.
> If this mechanism could be maginifed, it could also be a source
> of plausable and natural eletrical current.
>
It can be. Electric eels genrate very high voltagees by having many
neurun-like cells "stacked" in series, adding thier volatages like
batteries in series. Similarly, multiple "stacks" in paralel would add
amperage. Given the abiltiy to grow similar cells (easy in SR),
engenering an organized tissue to produce the proper voltages and
currents would be doable, even with TODAYS tech (guided tissue
structuring has produced primitive "liveres" with simplified filter like
structures ofintelaced blood vessels and liver tissue).
Put such an engeneered organ in a cyberlimb, route blood (or blood
filtrates) to it, and WHOLA, organic "Fuel cell battery", plus another
excuse (besides pain) for limb damage to affect the user-the limb
BLEEDS.
-Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:47:50 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)) (Erik
Jameson , Wed 19:10)
> You know what the sad thing is? There are plenty of people on this list
> who simply have no recollection of living like that, who only know about
> the Cold War from books and school. Some of us geezers actually grew up
> with the spectre of the Red Menance and Global Thermonuclear War.
What weirds me out is that the cyberpunk genre is, AFAIK, a very direct
response to the social stresses of the cold war and popular Nihilism.
Of course, the Government isn't doing recent generations any favors, and
in fact, society may be growing more towards the inequitous situations
cyberpunk explores, but I wonder- what draws people to cyberpunk fiction
and SR today? Its not the "pop" medium it was 15 years ago, when
Terminator and Max Headroom were widely accepted popular figures.
Futristic Nihilsm doesn't seem to play as broadly anymore as it once
did. Even SR's new developments seem to reflect this.
Anybody care to comment? Are older SR players a bunch of cynical
holdouts, or is there an unnoticed wave of technosavy nihilists (Marilin
Manson fans DON'T count)?
-Mongoose (old enough to visit the "home", young enough to not want to)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:10:03 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
> Date: Thursday, May 07, 1998 2:06 PM
>
> Once upon a time, Drekhead wrote;
>
> >Yes. I couldn't get him to play until SR2 came out. I didn't tell him
> >I was still using SR1 Karma rules, though. :)
>
> With my new campaign I've gone back as well. Karma Pools cannot be saved
> IMNSHO.
>
How did the 1st edition pools work? I don't even remember now.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 17:34:23 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: Munchkinism at it's finest
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Thursday, May 07, 1998 5:11 AM, MC23[SMTP:mc23@**********.COM] wrote:
> Once upon a time, Wafflemeisters wrote;
>
> > Replacing the Wires with a custom grade is out of the =
question, cost
> >wise. If it isn't, I don't want to hear about it (I'm jealous)....
>
> <snip the rest>
>
> sigh. Replacing wires is out of the question period. It's one of those
> one shot type of implantations. Didn't anybody fully read Shadowtech?
> sigh again.
>
Contradicted by the entry in Cybertechnology in which someone mentions =
that he 'had his wires pulled and replaced' (*not* a direct quote) so he =
could have a relfex trigger put in.
I don't really have a problem with the concept of removing wired =
reflexes. Nanites can just as easily 'eat' the wires as lay them down. =
It'd probably not be easy for someone to go back to living without the =
wires, (nor would it be cheap to remove them, I'd say the surgery would =
cost as much as the original installation surgery, but if someone wants =
to go down that road, be my guest).
Basically, my view on it is that the cost is prohibitive, so that's why =
all the 'war-surplus' wired-up folks show up in the shadows.
--
Ian Silvercat claims the above in the name of himself!
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:41:16 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
In-Reply-To: <199805072132.PAA06354@******.carl.org> from "Jeremy
\"Bolthy\"
Zimmerman" at May 7, 98 02:10:03 pm
Content-Type: text
Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman wrote:
/
/ > >Yes. I couldn't get him to play until SR2 came out. I didn't tell him
/ > >I was still using SR1 Karma rules, though. :)
/ >
/ > With my new campaign I've gone back as well. Karma Pools cannot be saved
/ > IMNSHO.
/
/ How did the 1st edition pools work? I don't even remember now.
The dice pools were pretty much the same. The karma rules were
significantly different. There was no karma pool. If you wanted to
re-roll or buy a success you had to *burn* karma. If you didn't have
any karma you were out of luck, so to speak.
I've since returned to the old ways myself.
-David
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:45:41 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun without magic?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980507121643.084f683e@****.fbiz.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 15:16 07/05/98 -0400, you wrote:
>At 10:53 AM 5/7/98 EDT, TalonMail wrote:
>BTW, Steve, do you know the status on the new addition to the Mulvihill
>family?
>
>Hey, maybe we could do like what we did with Nigel and have Adam send a
>"list card," an e-mail expressing our congratulations from the entire list
>in one e-mail.
Undernet #Shadowrun was probably going to be sending flowers to the FASA
offices when we heard the news. Donations gleefully accepted for this -- I
just got my phone bill. EEK!
-Adam
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:52:07 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Luken <hawke@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Dice Pools
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> What I'm wondering, though, is if anyone has any other pools they
>regularly use, like social pools or athletic pools described in the
>Companion, and what they consist of.
>
Well, in the game I run, I allow them to use the social and athletic pools,
with dice equal to skill. Can't recall if this is what it says in the SC or
not...
IceHawke
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:56:10 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun without magic?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Shadowrun without magic?
> Date: Thursday, May 07, 1998 2:45 PM
>
> At 15:16 07/05/98 -0400, you wrote:
> >At 10:53 AM 5/7/98 EDT, TalonMail wrote:
> >BTW, Steve, do you know the status on the new addition to the Mulvihill
> >family?
> >
> >Hey, maybe we could do like what we did with Nigel and have Adam send a
> >"list card," an e-mail expressing our congratulations from the entire
list
> >in one e-mail.
>
> Undernet #Shadowrun was probably going to be sending flowers to the FASA
> offices when we heard the news. Donations gleefully accepted for this --
I
> just got my phone bill. EEK!
>
I'd be willing to contribute to the cause if it could wait a week. I have
to stretch ten bucks between now and my next payday. Otherwise I'd be more
than happy to contribute to the flowers fund.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 22:59:50 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun without magic?
In-Reply-To: <199805071605.LAA24603@*****.interkan.net> from "Nexx" at
May 7,
98 10:59:35 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
And verily, did Nexx hastily scribble thusly...
|***************
| Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
| "Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn lasts
|forever"
| aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
| "Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo the
|better part of humor."
|aka Ellegon, Working at making Cannon canon
| "Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are crunchy
|and good with ketchup."
|--------[Geek Code Block]-----------
|GED/GSS d- s++:+ a-- C++ W w+ PS+.5 PE- Y+ t+
|5+ X+ R*+.5 !tv+ b+.5 DI+ D- G e h !r-- !y+
|-------[End Geek Code Block]-------
|
Hmmmm...
I think that's just a LITTLE bit over doing it with the .sig there...
I've had complaints about mine before now, and it's only 9 lines....
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 23:03:46 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Math
In-Reply-To: <199805071617.LAA25425@*****.interkan.net> from "Nexx" at
May 7,
98 11:11:15 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
And verily, did Nexx hastily scribble thusly...
|X = Shadowrun
|Y = Fantasy Elements (Magic, Dragons, Trolls, etc.)
|Z = Cyberpunk Elements (Cyberware, Gritty Future)
|A = Realism
|
|A+Y+Z=X
|A+Z=/=X
You've been messing with PROLOG!
STOP IT!
:)
It can seriously damage your will to live.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 10:08:18 +1200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: Cyberware Power Sources
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Quoth Wafflemeisters (0948 08-05-98 NZT):
<<<SLICE>>>
>> Standardly, neurons produce a charge of 700
>> milliwatts in a non-active state.
>> If this mechanism could be maginifed, it could also be a source
>> of plausable and natural eletrical current.
>>
>
> It can be. Electric eels genrate very high voltagees by having
many
>neurun-like cells "stacked" in series, adding thier volatages like
>batteries in series. Similarly, multiple "stacks" in paralel would add
>amperage. Given the abiltiy to grow similar cells (easy in SR),
>engenering an organized tissue to produce the proper voltages and
>currents would be doable, even with TODAYS tech (guided tissue
>structuring has produced primitive "liveres" with simplified filter
like
>structures ofintelaced blood vessels and liver tissue).
> Put such an engeneered organ in a cyberlimb, route blood (or
blood
>filtrates) to it, and WHOLA, organic "Fuel cell battery", plus another
>excuse (besides pain) for limb damage to affect the user-the limb
>BLEEDS.
This whole thread reminds me of an idea I had for cyberlimbs that I got
when I picked up an **&* supplement (you don't wanna know). I had a
hero (I was trying to write a novella) who lost most of his right arm,
and got a special magical/mechanical replacement: adamantium bones, with
magically-cloned muscles and reinforced tendons. Such a thing would be
possible under SR technology, right? (Equivalent of titanium
bone-lacing for the actual bones, 'muscle replacement' for the tissue
and such...)
Why would someone want this? Well, apart from the bone, it'd be their
own flesh, so there would be a reduced Essence cost. The limb itself
would have no particularly special properties (apart from being
unbreakable and setting off metal detectors). It'd be more for those
civilians who want to get a limb back without expensive/unnatural
cyberware, rather than for the combat monsters.
Should this be cyberware, bioware, or a bit of both? Suggested
essence/body and monetary costs?
Danyel Woods
9604801@********.ac.nz
'Are you deliberately trying to drive me insane?'
'The universe is already mad. Anything else would be
redundant.'
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 18:13:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Brian Moore <mooreb@****.FAC.COM>
Subject: Re: How much down time?
In-Reply-To: <v03110709b17704dd295d@[204.202.55.216]> from "Robert
Nesius" at
May 6, 98 11:32:59 pm
Content-Type: text
Robert Nesius <nesius@******.COM> said:
>
> Questions for the list:
>
> How much downtime do your characters usually have between runs?
We only started keeping track after the Companion came out, due to the
rules on training time. I argued that there should be enough time
between runs to be able to spend the karma earned on the run, just as
a rough average. The mages could spend karma fast, between spells,
initiation, foci, and familiars. Unfortunately, the street sams
had to spend karma the slow way (using the training rules). It is
generally around 2 weeks to 2 months between runs. It depends on
GM whim and how active the PCs are looking for work. Usually the
street sams blow their money on cyberware and can't afford their
lifestyle, so they look for work first.
> How many runs per game year do your groups fit in?
Probably 10-15.
> What is the average grade of initiacy that your magically actives attain?
My PC is grade 3, everyone else is 2 IIRC.
> How about average skill rating. ie: Lots of sixes and higher? Sixes and
> lower?
Mostly sixes and lower. Several people do have higher skills, but usually
only one or two per person.
> Just trying to get a feel for where people are at. Probably all over
> the map, but I'd appreciate your input on this.
You should also have asked about stats. All of our PCs are pretty buff,
with the weakest mage at 4 in all of his physical stats and max (or higher)
in the others. We have several PCs at or near straight 6's across the
board (excluding racial modifiers).
--
Brian Moore, mooreb@***.com | I wrote up a nice script to truncate all News&
First Albany Corp. Sysadmin | Mail sigs that are greater than 4 lines long.
standard disclaimers apply | It is still in beta testing due to an off-by-
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 23:14:41 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the Single
In-Reply-To: <011101bd79e3$ba11aea0$0101a8c0@********.wave.shaw.ca> from
"Lander Williams" at May 7, 98 12:12:41 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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And verily, did Lander Williams hastily scribble thusly...
|hmm... how DOES 5D4 work as a damage code?
It's pretty simple really, once you get the hang of it...
5D4 >>>> 5 Power (Number to resist)
D Base Deadly Damage.
4 Staging number. The number of successes required to stage down.
So. You need at least 16 successes to remain uninjured.
4 to get from Deadly to Serious.
4 to get from Serious to Moderate.
4 to get from Moderate to Light
And a final four to clear.
(Simple, innit... Errrr... The working out that is, not the resisting that
kind of damage.... But then, with a Ballistic armour of 6 that would reduce
the number of successes to a slightly more managable 10...)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 23:27:37 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
In-Reply-To:
<cÊ%a=GOVMT.CANADA%p=GC+EC%lìNCR_EXCH2-980507194906Z-100796@***.ncr.ec.gc.ca>
from "Ojaste,James
[NCR]" at May 7, 98 03:49:06 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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And verily, did Ojaste,James [NCR] hastily scribble thusly...
|
|Gurth wrote:
|>> Armor reducing power was a good idea, though, rather than automatic
|>> resistance successes. (Heretic, I know. I'm not *THAT* old, just 26.).
|>
|>A combination of the two would work very well, I think -- keep the revised
|>Power Levels of SRII and the way armor works, but add in the Staging rules
|>of SR1.
|
|This sounds like a net.project - converting all the new goodies over
|to SR1 damage codes...
YES!
Please?
>*wimper*<
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 23:28:29 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
In-Reply-To: <199805072110.RAA13828@******.mindspring.com> from "MC23" at
May
7, 98 05:08:26 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did MC23 hastily scribble thusly...
|
| OK guys this topic is getting worn thin. It's over.
|
|MC23, ShadowRN GridSec Vigilante
|
LOL!
Whatever next. DLoH impersonators?
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 23:33:42 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
In-Reply-To: <199805072117.QAA09597@*****.interkan.net> from "Nexx" at
May 7,
98 04:11:13 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did Nexx hastily scribble thusly...
|Can someone give me a run-down on 1st ed Karma rules? I need to find a
|BBlB, it seems...
Karma rules?
Simple.
At the end of a run you got awarded Karma.
With that Karma, you could buy skills, up attributes, learn spells or bond
foci. OR, you could save some of this karma in case of emergencies.
Spending 1 Karma point would avoid and oops, or allow a reroll of all failed
die.
Spending 2 karma would grant one auto-success. VERY usefull for making the
stabilisation roll after deadly damage.
Pools worked similarely, but the combat pool didn't exist. That replaced the
old Dodge and Defense pools (yes, pools could NOT enhance attack, only
defense, apart from astral and magic of course). Oh, and the Karma pool
didn't exist either.
There was one kind of karma. YOU decided what to spend it on or how to burn
it.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 08:38:35 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: OT: Silly Spendthrift AFLs ;) (Was Re: Shadowrun without magic?)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980507154541.0080d440@****.lis.ab.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> >Hey, maybe we could do like what we did with Nigel and have Adam send a
> >"list card," an e-mail expressing our congratulations from the entire
list
> >in one e-mail.
>
> Undernet #Shadowrun was probably going to be sending flowers to the FASA
> offices when we heard the news. Donations gleefully accepted for this -- I
> just got my phone bill. EEK!
I have four words for you - "It`s all your fault!"
<grin>
Lady Jestyr
- I'm in touch with my Inner Klingon... -
| Elle Holmes | jestyr@**********.com | http://jestyr.home.ml.org |
| Shadowrun Webring Ringmaster | GeoCities Leader | RPGA Reviewer |
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:59:16 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Where do you put the bateries?
On Wed, 6 May 1998 18:42:47 -0400 Joshua Bell <joshbell@**********.COM>
writes:
>Hello all Josh here,
>In my musings for today I was contemplating cyberware. I wondered how
all
>of these neat little devices got the power they need to run. Does wired
>reflexes have a battery pack? If so why isn't it listed so I as a GM
can
>rule that it shorted out at a most inoportune time <display
evil_grin>.?.
>
>I assume (rightly I hope) that certain cyberware requires a LOT of power
>such as Encephalons, C^2 decks, Cyberlimbs (gosh yes!), etc.
>
>What are your thoughs on how they are powered, Ahh an Ephipany! the
>"Nuclear Power Plant" implant Essence cost -1,000,000. <grin>...
>
>No really, would a datajack like act as an AC/DC cable?
Actually, another RPG, CyberSpace (from I.C.E.), addressed this and I
kinda like how they described it.
Cybersystems were generally powered microcells which used decaying
radioactive isotopes for power and lasted years without replacement.
(replacement can be considered part of cybermaintence [are there rules
for this?])
Also Cyberware could be powered by a solar batery linked to the system.
(not sure how to handle this ... [.1 essence? cost = 10+{100*number of
sys to be powered}?])
D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
"Parts is parts ... unless those parts is going in *my* body"
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:59:24 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
In-Reply-To: <199805072110.RAA13828@******.mindspring.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 17:08 07/05/98 -0400, you wrote:
> OK guys this topic is getting worn thin. It's over.
>
>MC23, ShadowRN GridSec Vigilante
<grin>
MC23 is right. This has strayed way off course.
-Adam
But that doesn't make him GridSec ;)
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:47:13 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Possible Vehicle Economy Fix
Okay, R2's vehicle economy figures are a tad off so let's see if we can
fix `em.
<Observation of facts>
Let's start by looking at the Eurocar Westwind 2000 and say that it's
your average sports car aproximately equivalent to Mustang (not quite but
for sake of argument).
Eurocar westwind RBB econ: 20 km/L (12.4 mi/L = 46 mpg)
R2 econ: 6 km/L (3.72 mi/L = 14 mpg)
Best possible sports car R2 Econ: 10 km/L (6.2 mi/L = 23 mpg)
1991 Ford Mustang LX V8 Econ: 19 mpg (5 mi/L = 8 km/L)
1995 Ford Mustang GT V8 Econ: 18 mpg (4.8 mi/L = 7.7 km/L)
1995 Ford Mustang V6 Econ: 22 mpg (5.8 mi/L = 9.4 km/L)
Now let's say that the Ford Americar (I would have gone with the
Jackrabbit but it runs on Methane) is the equivelant of a Geo Prizm or
Honda Civic.
Ford Americar RBB econ: 50 km/L (31 mi/L = 117 mpg)
R2 econ: 12.4 km/L (7.7 mi/L = 29 mpg)
Best possible Sedan R2 Econ: 14 km/L (8.64 mi/L = 32.9 mpg)
1991 Geo Prizm Econ: 25 mpg (40.3 mi/L = 10.6 km/L)
1995 Geo Prizm Econ: 33 mpg (53.2 mi/L = 14.1 km/L)
1991 Honda Civic Econ: 27 mpg (43.5 mi/L = 11.5 km/L)
1995 Honda Civic Econ: 29 mpg (46.8 mi/L = 12.3 km/L)
For both examples the information on the modern cars was taken from
Consumer Reports (1991-92 and 1995)
For those who wish to check my math:
1 liter = 1.057 quarts = .264 gallons
1 km = .62 miles
</Observation of facts>
Okay I think the average vehicle's economy is going to improve not
worsen> I would say gas guzzlers are going to go the way of the dodo
(but not entirely). the Rigger Black Book (IMO) exagerated the
improvement and Rigger 2 (also, IMO) underestemated them. To fix this I
would suggest multipliing economy by 1.5 or, if you are really generous
(or optomistic), by 2.
In general, I don't really use vehicle economy, instead I calaculate the
range and only make a deal about fuel when chars push that limit.
BTW, IMO, all micro sized drones should be electric powered.
D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
"Have you seen any invisble people run through here lately?"
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:21:41 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
In-Reply-To: <199805072107.RAA17027@******.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|> From: MC23
|> Sent: May 7, 1998 5:06 PM
|> Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
|> With my new campaign I've gone back as well. Karma Pools cannot be saved
|> IMNSHO.
Er, excuse, but I am lost. Could you please explain your statement? Also,
if someone would be so nice as to refresh my memory and explain the
differences in karma rules between SRI and SRII?
Katt Freyson
ICQ UIN 3337155
Montreal, Canada
http://www.dsuper.net/~katt
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:21:50 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Cyberware Power Sources
In-Reply-To: <35522BFD.6AAA@**********.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|> From: Wafflemeisters
|> Sent: May 7, 1998 5:48 PM
|> Subject: Re: Cyberware Power Sources
|> <tounge in cheek>
|> I always assumed it drew power from its essence cost, turning essence
|> sustaining lifeforce into electricty directly.
|> </tounge in cheek>
Gosh I love it! Best excuse for essence loss I've read so far. I might
actually use it. It's not pure technology, it's magic-tech! <grin>
As for powering cyberwear with biological energy, well, why not? Standard
limbs [by that I mean that give a person his normal strength] would not use
more power than a normal person does, so why not from a human biological
system? As for powering more powerful devices, people with such cyberwear
could be given drugs to increase their metabolism, so that they would
generate power at a high enough rate.
Makes me think of Cybergeneration, where the kids with the virus have to
eat more often than normal to make up for the high energy requirements of
their bioware.
Katt Freyson
ICQ UIN 3337155
Montreal, Canada
http://www.dsuper.net/~katt
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 01:33:03 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980507115907.089f71ce@****.fbiz.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>As I recall from the back of SR2 BBB, 5D4 would be translated as 7D. A 3L1
>would become 2L.
In most cases, they added staging and power to get the new power, though
not always. 5D4 would become 9D and 3L1 would become 4L (a hold out).
- Cobra.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 01:32:59 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the SingleShadowrunner(t
In-Reply-To: <cÊ%a=GOVMT.CANADA%p=GC+EC%lìNCR_EXCH2-980507183833Z-10
0504@***.ncr.ec.gc.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>It basically allows for a more intelligent choice of weapons than
>"I'll grab a heavy pistol - which one doesn't matter, 'cause they're
>all 9M"...
All heavy pistols were 4M2...
This system was a bit stupid sometime... When you used explosive ammo, it
increased the staging by 1, thus making it more difficult to kill someone.
Also, a hold out pistol was 3L1 which was more deadlier than a heavy pistol
with a good skill.
Armors were boring because a troll with an armor jacket was even more
unbeatable than in SR2.
I speak about magic which was really too powerful... At that time, armor
was a +1 per success... Increase reflexes was the same as wired reflexes
(+2 +1d6 per level)...
I don't regret SR1. SR2 was a really good evolution and is more playable
and balanced and reallistic. IMO.
>More weapon variety, more weapon personality - it's a much cooler
>system and I hope that they switch back to it in SR3 (though unlikely,
>I'll admit).
I hope not. There wasn't more variety. Within a category, there only 2
different damage codes, which is the same in SR2.
- Cobra.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:24:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
In-Reply-To: <199805071815.OAA02414@****.ctghub.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:16 PM 5/7/98 -0500, you wrote:
>On 7 May 98 at 14:21, Erik Jameson wrote:
>
>> Hey, the "Respected Elders Relaxation Resort" is now open for
>> business, right here in sunny southern California. It's got a nice
>Even me?
>I promise to leave my jack-boots at the door. :)
Even you qualify Drekhead. And in addition to leaving the jack-boots at
the door, make sure you leave all carp weapons there also; I've just
purchased a bleeding-edge technology carp detector and I'm not afraid to
use it.
Gotta keep the resort safe from all those damn kids with their gangs and
drive-by carpings and whatnot...
Erik J.
Resepected Elders Relaxation Resort Activites Director
"Hey, how about a game of first edition using only the Blue Book?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:25:21 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Traveling Quiz
In-Reply-To: <199805071934.PAA14018@*******.mindspring.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:33 PM 5/7/98 -0400, you wrote:
><dripping sarcasm>
>Oh thank you
></dripping sarcasm>
Ouch. I thought I told the list to stop doing that; it's a serious bitch
to clean that stuff up off my monitor.
Like that damn ectoplasmic goo from Ghostbusters...if I'm not careful it
stains my dress clothes...I think I kept it off my nice suit this time, but
you do it again and I may be sending you a cleaning bill MC23.
> Now with that out of the way, how many of the traditional street
>level campaigns involve travel?
Most of my games fall between a street-level campaign (which those folks
really aren't going to leave Seattle, really) and something that appears to
most eyes as ultra-high powered like Keith's game.
Even at our most powerful stages we rarely left Seattle. A few times out
to Salish-Sidhe lands, to Scotland once (the Imago adventure I think), to
Amazonia once, CalFree a time or two, New England once, Chicago a few times
and Denver once or twice. This was all in a span of several real time
years. But at least 75% of our adventures were in Seattle. We could
usually find more than ample intrigue there.
Erik J.
Resepected Elders Relaxation Resort Activites Director
"Hey, how about a game of first edition using only the Blue Book?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:25:55 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners
In-Reply-To: <19980507175334.4019.rocketmail@******.yahoomail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:53 AM 5/7/98 -0700, you wrote:
>You're only 25 and you feel old?
Simple answer, yes.
Long answer, yes I do. <smirk>
When I want to, I can be a regular Calvin Coolidge. I just don't often
want to.
It stems from working as a lifeguard for six years (90 to 95). I saw that
I was once one of those care-free kids in high school. Then I suddenly
realized as I approached college graduation and the summer following
graduation that I had nothing in common with these kids. Their lives were
in a totally different place than mine. I was their boss, not a coworker.
Guests would call me "sir," the rebellious guards hated me (even though I
was one of them once and had the stories to prove I was more of a rebel
than they ever could be), there was maybe a half dozen female lifeguards
that I wouldn't get in trouble for "dating" (out of nearly 100 mostly
attractive young women) and I was telling stories about the good old days
way too often. I quite simply found myself in a different world from the
"youth;" I simply don't understand the mind of a teenager anymore.
I realized that while I am relatively young, to many people I'm old. Add
in the fact that I've got bad knees and can't climb stairs without pain,
like old people, and I often feel "old."
I was playing paintball a few weekends back and it took me several days to
recover from a very intense day of play (a lot of newbies there, so I had
to play hyper-aggressive ball to show them how the game should be played).
And I go to the gym and box so I'm not in horrible shape, yet it still took
me several days to recover. That's not something some young buck has to
do. That's something a mature adult has to do. I now understand what
athletes like Michael Jordan must go through every year now.
I guess it's just strange to see that once I was a 20-yr old newbie on this
list and now I'm an "Elder Statesman," telling stories about SR1 and what
the list was like in 93-95. That while I'm not old like my grandparents,
I'm not a kid anymore. It's a very strange sensation to recognize your own
mortality and the fact that your youth is really gone forever.
Ack.
To try and drag this kicking and screaming back on-topic, how old are your
PCs? Excepting any munchy IEs and the like that is.
It's been my experience that most runner are between 18 and 25. Anyone
notably older than that (Keith, I know you have one or two there)? My own
primary PC is I think 32 years old; nearly ancient by SR standards I think.
Anyway, sorry for rambling and taking this topic so far astray from SR. I
guess I'm just getting senile in my old age... ;-)
Erik J.
Resepected Elders Relaxation Resort Activites Director
"Hey, how about a game of first edition using only the Blue Book?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:26:44 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: ED Races in SR; why it can't happen (long)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980506202448.25716A-100000@******>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:43 PM 5/6/98 -0400, you wrote:
>One simple explanation is magic levels. Although magic levels are high,
>they are not high enough for T'skrang, Obsidimen or Windlings to appear.
This would appear to be obvious, but I'm not convinced it's true.
>In the Denizens of Barsaive book, it is mentioned that with magic levels
>dropping, T'skrang have a lower egg fertility rate.
AHA!! If their fertility rates drop with the level of magic, eventually
they could reach a point there they simply can't have children anymore.
Which would mean that would go extinct. No more t'skrang, because their
genetic code can't be passed down any farther.
Let's look at it this way. If a barghest is derived from a certain breed
of dog, then that breed of dog would go extinct and the only thing left
would be barghests. If barghests were to go extinct, there wouldn't be
anything left to return back to dogs when the magic dropped. It's a
hypothetical proposition anyway, and one that quite simply eliminates the
t'skrang from ever appearing in SR. They died with with Fourth Age.
>Each of these three
>races are not necessarily directly related to humans; for this reason, it
>is possible that their resurgence requires a higher magic level. For
>example, I don't believe that the Obsidimen will necessarily appear at the
>same time as dwarves and elves. Consider the length of mana cycles; it's
>quite possible that T'skrang will appear in two or three hundred years;
>with such a time scale, FASA can safely say that T'skrang will not appear
>in Shadowrun.
That's also true. But I honestly don't believe that they will appear.
They've gone the way of the dodo and the passenger pigeon. Lost but to the
annals of history.
Erik J.
"Oh my God, they killed Dunkelzahn! You bastards!!!"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:27:37 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
In-Reply-To: <199805071857.OAA02772@****.ctghub.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 03:58 PM 5/7/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> When 2nd edition came out we were happy. Only the Karma Pool would later
>> become our bane (and we even award Karma sparingly when compared to
>> others).
>
>Yes. I couldn't get him to play until SR2 came out. I didn't tell him
>I was still using SR1 Karma rules, though. :)
I still use SR1 Karma Rules also.
For those that don't know, SR1 and SR2 Karma rules are very similar. SR2
brought in that Karma Pool abomination though. Didn't exist in the old days.
See, I've usually been involved with power games, tending to play our game
a little more epic, less street-level. We also usually managed to acquire
sizable karma after a year or two. If we had a Karma Pool also, we would
be throwing massive amounts of dice with every friggin' roll.
So while we recieved sizable karma awards (a few rare occassions that were
extremely difficult mentally and combat-wise, even for power PCs ( <---heh,
a funny!) we earned something like 20 Karma each; average was 8-12), we
also were spending Karma rather freely. In some cases, we would have
spent, say, 10 Karma on rerolls and bought successes and only earn 6 Karma
at the end of the session, leaving the PC with a -4 Karma deficit for the
day. Most of that Karma would have been spent just keeping our asses alive.
And with Karma awards like that our Karma Pools would have been a
nightmare. But we were at least smart enough to have never used the
concept in the first place.
I don't know, the Karma Pool thing reminds me in some ways of the "Group
Pattern" concept from Earthdawn. It's a way to try and make the PCs an
"adventuring group" instead of a disperate group of mercenaries. And I
don't like that "group" concept in SR very much; there's no way most of the
PCs would associate with each other if it wasn't a profitable business
proposition.
Erik J.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 17:36:53 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Traveling Quiz
On Thu, 7 May 1998 05:44:00 -0400 MC23 <mc23@**********.COM> writes:
>Once upon a time, Wafflemeisters wrote;
>> Not IMO. Our characters travel a LOT, and "home city" tends to
loose
>>meaning pretty fast. We've liked / used most of the sourcebooks, but a
>>"genric travle guide", would be better for us. NAGRL fills some gaps,
>>but leaves many. Just because all the FASA stuf says "Seattle",
doesn't
>>mean people play Seattle- similar features can be adapted for plots set
>>n any city. And having EVERYTHING happen in your town starts to
stretch
>>thin pretty fast.
>
>I think that you're an exception to the norm. I think the most obvious
>way to find out what happens most often is to poll everyone.
>
>Does your campaign involve travel, how often, and how far and where is
it
>centered?
>
> I am MC23
Hmmmm... game play hasn't actually started yet with our group but I'm one
of 2 maybe 3 GMs in the group. The third GM hasn't been confirmed, and
the second one *insists* on playing in Houston, TX (where we're all
from). I want to play in Seatle (I think Seatle is an interesting place
from a surrounding territory POV) so if we use the same PCs we'll prolly
say they travel between the 2 places b4 any runs and generally not make a
fuss about any of the arrangements except perhaps lodgings. I intend to
have the PCs travel as soon as they're ready... Denver seems to be a nice
place to go <eGMg>.
Additionly some of the PCs have done some travelling pregame. I have 4
chars and only one is native to Seatle. One is an otaku elf who left the
Haven and shortly met up with ... a minotaur rigger from Greece (go
figure ;) who was making his way around UCAS. Together they went on to
Seatle. My 4 char is an escaped science project from Aztlan and her
english is very bad (actually, so is the minotaur's). However, you
prolly weren't interested in pregame travelling.
D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
"I wonder what this button does..."
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Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 17:47:54 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: SR Companion Metatypes
On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:22:24 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>Nexx said on 16:21/27 Apr 98...
>> This brings up something I've been contemplating, but never
quite >>worked out. I'm thinking about dropping the metatype priority,
but just >>giving humans an extra 3 points of attributes to distribute
how they wish >>(without actually raising their maximums). What does the
peanut gallery
>> think?
On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:22:24 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>I think that will work, although you would end up with _very_ strong
>characters if someone takes A priority for Attributes -- there's
>really no
>other choice than putting 3 at 6 and 3 at 5.
>
>--
>Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html -
<SNiP>
I also had an idea fer this (uh-oh. run! hide! ;)... I use the optional
split karma pool and what I do is this:
1) All metahumans get 1 karma point in each pool
2) humans get 2 karma points in each pool
3) humans get 1 "level" (for lack of a better word) of Exceptional
Ability Edge for free
You know what? out of 10 PCs only one is human ... I personally think
this optional rule gives humans an edge (no pun intended).
D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
" `scuse me? sledgehammer 'fist to go'?" -- Kirby Hero
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 00:53:10 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the SingleShadowrunner(t
In-Reply-To: <Version.32.19980508011727.00f84d80@****.mhnet.fr> from
"Cobra"
at May 8, 98 01:32:59 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did Cobra hastily scribble thusly...
|
|>It basically allows for a more intelligent choice of weapons than
|>"I'll grab a heavy pistol - which one doesn't matter, 'cause they're
|>all 9M"...
|
|All heavy pistols were 4M2...
Not all. SSC. Firepower ammo and the good ol' faithfull Predator and
Predator II. (The Predator didn't have a reactive trigger, or the ability to
use Firepower ammo, which added +2 to power, the Pred II could ONLY handle
Firepower.... It was my fave weapon before ShRII came out and spoilt it...)
|This system was a bit stupid sometime... When you used explosive ammo, it
|increased the staging by 1, thus making it more difficult to kill someone.
But more difficult to resist the damage that'd already been inflicted.
Variable staging always was a double edged sword.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 02:04:07 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Possible Vehicle Economy Fix
In-Reply-To: <19980507.170320.4254.0.dghost@****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Okay, R2's vehicle economy figures are a tad off so let's see if we can
>fix `em.
><Observation of facts>
>[skip text]
></Observation of facts>
>
>Okay I think the average vehicle's economy is going to improve not
>worsen> I would say gas guzzlers are going to go the way of the dodo
>(but not entirely). the Rigger Black Book (IMO) exagerated the
>improvement and Rigger 2 (also, IMO) underestemated them. To fix this I
>would suggest multipliing economy by 1.5 or, if you are really generous
>(or optomistic), by 2.
>In general, I don't really use vehicle economy, instead I calaculate the
>range and only make a deal about fuel when chars push that limit.
>
>BTW, IMO, all micro sized drones should be electric powered.
Do you really use economics during game sessions ?
- Cobra.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 01:18:12 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: ED Races in SR; why it can't happen (long)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980507161604.21ef7b68@****.fbiz.com> from "Erik
Jameson" at May 7, 98 07:26:44 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did Erik Jameson hastily scribble thusly...
|Let's look at it this way. If a barghest is derived from a certain breed
|of dog, then that breed of dog would go extinct and the only thing left
|would be barghests.
That's sloppy thinking I'm afraid.
Why wouldn't the dogs react to magic in the same way as the people?
Only a small percentage of the population gave birth to or goblinised into
metaraces, and the same could be said for the dogs.
Also, there is word that the magic dropped suddenly, NOT gradually.
If it was a gradual drop, it might have been the buffer zone needed for
their unborns to revert to the lower, non-magical race.
Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing the 3 missing races appear,
It'd bring on a whole new night of rage if they suddenly appeared in force
at another magic threshold....
<EGMG>
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 10:19:50 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Gurth writes:
>It disappointed me when I looked at the damage rules in SRII... I _liked_
>the variable staging, it gave weapons slightly more ways in which to be
>different, and my experience is that it didn't make combat slower than in
>second edition. With either you have to divide the successes by something
>and then stage up or down accordingly, it's just that the number varies
.instead of being a fixed 2.
I wasn't too upset with the demise of variable staging for weapons, when I
noticed that armour didn't give automatic successes anymore. I think the
tradeoff was fairly decent, and I remember a quote from this list from when
SR2 came out: "We played our first game of SR2 last night, and I discovered
that Trolls aren't bulletproof anymore!"
What disappointed me was the demise of variable staging for _spells_, and
spell drain. Sure, it made the design more complex, but the munchkin trick
of casting high drain spells at low force, and throwing away the drain just
wasn't possible. If you slung major mojo around in SR1, you were going to
take drain... it wasn't uncommon for drain to need 3 or 4 successes per
level, so if you throw a big spell around, you'd be assured based on the
number of available dice that you'll take at least a light or even a
moderate drain. Now, you can toss Force 4 with Deadly drain spells around
all day, nearly. (Willpower 6, keep 3 dice back from the spell casting test
to resist drain).
This is one area of SR2 that needs serious overhaul in SR3, IMHO.
--
sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 20:34:22 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Craig S Dohmen <dohmen@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shasdowrun: Off course! (loong!)
In-Reply-To: <19980507201203.5941.qmail@*******.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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> Dowd's. While he's certainly done some cool stuff, (Companion) he's also
> made some choices ranging from simply a little bland (Corp War thing-
> who cares?) all the way to near-disastrous (Rigger 2- so complicated it
^^^^^^^^^
Well, shadowrunners should care. Since the corps will have all sorts of
covert ops going on against each other....
> bizarre & sinister mix of magic & machine. Quit screwing with magic,
> FASA. Don't fix what ain't broken. If you find magic too powerful, step
> up the competition, or tone down what mojo players get. I have played
I think everyone is jumping the gun on this magic thing. Based on what they
said at last year's Gen Con, SR3 and the new magic book aren't going to
totally overhaul the magic system. It's going to be more along the lines of
defining things more exactly and explanation of how things work, eg,
grounding through quickenings. ;)
> * Horrors, IE's & the Tirs, oh my!- I thought these were neat but only
> in real limited quantity. They are way overused now. Ditto all the super
So, Mike has been downplaying the IE/Horror angle. What are you complaining
about?
> say, 'Cyberpirates'? They can't do a Japan book, but they do give us
> 'Blood in the Boardroom'... great.
They can't do a Japan book because they want to have someone from Japan
write it, and since SR was only released there within the last year, they
haven't found anyone yet.
--Craig
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 20:26:53 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun: Off course! (loong!)
In-Reply-To: <19980507201203.5941.qmail@*******.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:12 PM 5/7/98 PDT, you wrote:
> I think FASA (Mulvihill specifically) is quite a bit off lately.
>Mulvihill seems to basically hate the game we all love & wants to make
>all these drastic changes to make it more "his" game as opposed to
>Dowd's.
Mike doesn't hate Shadowrun. If he did, he'd be working on Battletech or
doing something else. He has some definite ideas about the game though,
and is incorporating them slowly. Cut him some slack.
> * Magic- without it, the game is Cyberpunk with different rules, NOT
>Shadowrun. The world would be nothing the same.
Damn it, I wish this concept would just die. FASA IS NOT DROPPING MAGIC
FROM SHADOWRUN!!! There, did I yell loud enough for you to hear?
>Quit screwing with magic,
>FASA. Don't fix what ain't broken. If you find magic too powerful, step
>up the competition, or tone down what mojo players get.
Magic in SR works great, better than any other system, I believe. But it
sure as hell isn't perfect and Steve Kenson and FASA are working very hard
to fix those elements that *are* broken; and there are things that are
broken and need to be fixed. That's probably part of the purpose for SR3.
>I have played
>since the day 1st ed. came out & have yet to have ONE person earn
>initiation...
Define earning Initiation. I've played since SR1 also and the majority of
PCs have to bust their ass to get the Karma to Initiate. So I don't know
what you are getting at here.
>See also the new rules for metamagic in the Companion.
What? What new metamagic rules in the Companion. Did I miss something
here? I've read that book numerous times and I don't recall any new
metamagic.
> * Cyber- bioware shouldn't let players off easy since it should be hell
>to get, not to mention it usually has side effects. Physads pay dearly
>for their power & don't get as powerful as a sam. The point is, sure
>you're supposed to pay for your edge but if you handle it right, so does
>everybody.
Unless I'm mistaken, there is a price to pay for cyberware and not only in
nuyen. The lower the Essence, the harder it is to use magic to heal them
up. That means hospital bills (hell, that means finding a hospital that
will take the SINless and certified credsticks) and time off that can't be
used for running. And if you want to run with cyberpsychosis-type stuff,
go for it, that's the province of ROLE-PLAYING!
> * Horrors, IE's & the Tirs, oh my!- I thought these were neat but only
>in real limited quantity. They are way overused now.
Agreed. And they are being scaled back; or can't you tell?
>Ditto all the super
>high level epic scale stuff. We're lousy plex rats... we have no part in
>this stuff.
Not every runner is a "lousy plex rat." And you seem to forget basic Chaos
theory, the Lorenz Butterfly Effect; even the affects of one tiny shadowrun
on one little corporate installation can end up having huge affects. So
even a lousy plex rat can actually shake the foundations of heaven, without
even realizing it.
And not everyone wants to run gutter punks. That style of game isn't for
everyone. It's the way CP2020 runs, but SR is open to far more variation I
think. I *like* my very upscale ex-corporate combat mage that drives
around in a Saab Dynamit and wears 10,000 nuyen worth of clothes. It's fun
for me to have that PC interact with gutter rats. I like that variety.
> * Non-shadowrunner campaigns- Theses are already way out of hand. Cool
>as a diversion, but ultimately a distraction from the point. We really
>don't need these 'other types of games' that keep pushing... can anyone
>say, 'Cyberpirates'? They can't do a Japan book, but they do give us
>'Blood in the Boardroom'... great.
Those other styles of campaigns were added for flavor, so that those people
who *wanted* to run a game like that could, and have a basic framework from
which to work in. Cyberpirates is much more valuable than just "Here's how
to run a pirates campaign."
And I think you are totally missing the point on Blood in the Boardroom.
It's changing the entire corporate landscape. I don't know about your
games, but in mine 90% of the employers of shadowrunners are corporate.
And that supplement creates a huge amount of potential adventure hooks.
> There's my dollar ninety-fine worth... if I seem a little harsh, it's
>just because I love ya Mulvihill, & I'd hate to see Shadowrun go the way
>of 'Vampire"...
Shadowrun will not turn into Vampire.
I really don't understand why you are being so harsh; much of it seems to
be on mistaken perceptions of the future of the game (i.e., magic is NOT
going away, despite the nasty rumor) or your own perceptions of the game
being a game of gutter punks and gangers.
If you want to run a gutter campaign, that's fine. But I don't want to,
and Shadowrun is big enough for both of those games.
I think you are missing so many points here, your perception of SR is way
wacked out from anything like consensual reality. But that's your right I
suppose.
Erik J.
"Ladies & Gentleman, the newest member of the band, the one and only Spice
Boy, GRUMPY SPICE!!!" <and the crowd goes wild!!!>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:26:16 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Radiation and Magic
On Mon, 4 May 1998 09:27:33 -0500 Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
writes:
>>
<SNIP>
>> for the unhealthy mana to feed straight into the mage's brain. This
would >> mean that there is an astral plane outside the earth and all
that would be >> needed to create a safe enviroment for mages in space
would be to recreate >> the magical properties of the ozone ... (which
shouldn't be easy by any >> means) and would also explain spirits with
"an affinity to solar fire". >> It's a stretch, but if you don't stretch
you'll never go anywhere :)
>Check out the Big D's will. I don't have the page number handy, but in
>there he left a chunk of cash to a scientist researching "The relation
>ship between nuclear power and mana" or some such. Perhaps its not
>a big as stretch as you think. :)
>
>--
>Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
<SNIP Sig>
Actually I knew about the hinted at possible connection between magic in
radiation. The stretch I was reffering to was the explanation for mages
going ga-ga. :)
D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
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Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 18:43:06 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: How much down time?
On Wed, 6 May 1998 23:32:59 -0700 Robert Nesius <nesius@******.COM>
writes:
>Questions for the list:
>How much downtime do your characters usually have between runs?
Since gameplay hasn't really started yet, it's hard to say but I'd guess
it will range from a few days to a few weeks. Enough time to let the PCs
relax and at the same time keep em busy enough that their shadow income
doesn't drop too low.
>How many runs per game year do your groups fit in?
As above, dunno but I'd guess 1 per week during the summer so, that may
result in about a total of 12 games ... during the school year we'll
prolly be too busy to do any decent amount of shadowrunning ...
>What is the average grade of initiacy that your magically actives
>attain?
none, atm. I have 2 magically active characters, a Druid and a PhysAd.
I'm not sure how I'll handle the Druid's intiation but the PhysAd is
going to do it on a more subconcious level. To represent this, I'm going
to split karma fairly evenly among Stats, Skills, and Intiation. As soon
as she has enough karma for a self-initiation (no ordeals) she'll do it.
>How about average skill rating. ie: Lots of sixes and higher? Sixes
>and
>lower?
Everybody in the group tends to have one or two skills at 6 and the rest
range evenly from 2 to 5. I would say the average skill is 3 or 4,
closer to 3. The exception is my Otaku who has Computer at 8. In the
group the spellslingers all have sorcery at 6 and most have Conjury at 6
as well. Those who have Psychometry tend to have it at 3 or 4.
>Just trying to get a feel for where people are at. Probably all over
>the map, but I'd appreciate your input on this.
>
>Thanks,
>-Rob
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Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:39:00 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Karma and the Pedestrian (was Re: SR Agriculture)
On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 08:05:28 -0400 Jerry Hill
<agh60070@*******.CC.UCF.EDU> writes:
>How does anyone else deal with Karma for people who just happen to be
>around. I don't mean the karma pool on an individual basis (that's
handled
>with threat/professional ratings) but specifically good karma with
regard to
>bonding costs, the ability to quicken and/or anchor spells, etc.
>
>I've seen some interesting ideas in the Aggriculture thread, up to and
>including ending world hunger via magic. The problem I see here is that
>Karma is a fairly difficult thing to quantify... How many spells can
someone
>quicken before they run out of karma, etc.
>
>I think the answer to this, once I figure out how I want to deal with
it,
>will have quite a bit of impact on the viability of wide scale
commercial
>magic use in my worldview. Perhaps the average Joe should be assigned a
>certain amount of karma per year or something to do with as he
chooses...
>
>Bah. I need to think about this one for a while. Any comments?
>
>
>Jerry Hill
hmmm...I have delt with this any yet, but... when determining karma
awards for "pedestrains" keep in mind the following:
1) The risk/ stress of the person's day-to-day,
2) The amount accomplished,
3) and possibly the impact of his/her actions.
As a basis OTOMH a chart would go something like this:
Security Guard would get 1 karma per week
Security Mage would get 1 karma per 3-4 days
Corp Suit would get 1 karma per week (high stress/large impact)
Wageslave would get 1 karma per 2-3 months
Mageslave would get 1 karma per month
Reseach Magician would get from 1 karma per month to 1 karma per 2-3
days depending on research.
Study (ie at a university, but not neccissarily) would increase rate by
x2 to x4 depending on workload
Coach potato would get 0 to 1 points of karma a year
This sound any good?
_____________________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:21:24 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkinism at it's finest
On Thu, 7 May 1998 17:34:23 -0400 Jonathan Hurley
<jhurley1@************.EDU> writes:
>On Thursday, May 07, 1998 5:11 AM, MC23[SMTP:mc23@**********.COM]
>wrote:
>> Once upon a time, Wafflemeisters wrote;
>> > Replacing the Wires with a custom grade is out of the
question,
>> >cost wise. If it isn't, I don't want to hear about it (I'm
jealous)....
>> <snip the rest>
>> sigh. Replacing wires is out of the question period. It's one of those
>> one shot type of implantations. Didn't anybody fully read Shadowtech?
>> sigh again.
BTW, the page reference for the above is page 39 Last paragraph before
System Damage
>Contradicted by the entry in Cybertechnology in which someone mentions
>that he 'had his wires pulled and replaced' (*not* a direct quote) so he
>could have a relfex trigger put in.
>
>I don't really have a problem with the concept of removing wired
reflexes. >Nanites can just as easily 'eat' the wires as lay them down.
>
>It'd probably not be easy for someone to go back to living without the
wires, >(nor would it be cheap to remove them, I'd say the surgery would
cost as much >as the original installation surgery, but if someone wants
>to go down that road, be my guest).
>
>Basically, my view on it is that the cost is prohibitive, so that's why
>all the 'war-surplus' wired-up folks show up in the shadows.
>
>--
>Ian Silvercat claims the above in the name of himself!
I agree. (Btw the direct quote is "I actually had my wire taken out and
put back in with a reflex trigger." -- Steel Lynx pg 38) I was
considering charging as per Gene Therapy: 100kN then modify according to
the grade to be removed (ie 300k for alpha, 700k for Beta, and 1M for
delta [Gamma, Epsilon and S.Epsilon I'll remove for free <grin>]) then
the Sam will have to spend 4 months hospilized (in the appriate grade
clinic) before implantation of the new sys can begin ... ought to make
runners reeeaaal wary about upgrading.
PS if you're feeling nasty, make that the cost per point of essence :P
(ie removing wired 2 [normal grade] would cost 300kN and hospitalize the
char for 12 months).
D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
"I feel Monkey Funky"
_____________________________________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:26:10 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
In-Reply-To: <24158.199805072227@*****.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 23:27 07/05/98 +0100, you wrote:
>|This sounds like a net.project - converting all the new goodies over
>|to SR1 damage codes...
>
>YES!
>
>Please?
>>*wimper*<
Might want to wait for SR3 to come out before you do this. I know I'm
waiting for SR3 before trying any of the GURPS conversions I've been
meaning to try.
Course, I won't have TIME to do those conversions until then. <insert busy
busy busy grin>
-Adam
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 21:40:09 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun without magic?
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In a message dated 5/7/98 2:34:40 PM US Eastern Standard Time, erikj@****.COM
writes:
> Hey, maybe we could do like what we did with Nigel and have Adam send a
> "list card," an e-mail expressing our congratulations from the entire list
> in one e-mail.
>
> Put my name on the "e-card" anyway.
>
I'll include myself here as well if you don't mind. I may not agree with the
guy, but he and Sharon do deserve the best of wishes...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 21:55:05 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: OT: Silly Spendthrift AFLs ;) (Was Re: Shadowrun without
magic?)
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In a message dated 5/7/98 5:39:59 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU writes:
> Donations gleefully accepted for this -- I
> > just got my phone bill. EEK!
>
> I have four words for you - "It`s all your fault!"
>
Actually, I just got mine as well for a particular call to Norway...Yep, it's
a nasty thing when the phone bill (just one call) exceeds the credit card
payment for the month...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 21:13:56 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun without magic?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> > Hey, maybe we could do like what we did with Nigel and have Adam send
a
> > "list card," an e-mail expressing our congratulations from the entire
list
> > in one e-mail.
> >
> > Put my name on the "e-card" anyway.
> >
> I'll include myself here as well if you don't mind. I may not agree
with the
> guy, but he and Sharon do deserve the best of wishes...
Put my name on it, too.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:05:37 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Non-running sources of income (was Re: Talismongering)
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Jeremy "Bolthy" Zimmerman escreveu:
>
> ----------
> >
>
> How many people have their characters do work on the side?
There's a character in my group who is a female elf reporter. No
magic and no cyber but the datajack, running along 3 samurai and 2
mages... :)
Her contacts and social skills do provide great hooks, tough...
Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:09:38 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Tskrang Conspiracy (A little long)
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Jeremy Fisher escreveu:
> Chupucabras seem to be
>
I believe the correct name is ChupAcabras... Please give some more
info on these
creatures... Apparently, some of them have attacked cattle in some
regions of Brasil
and Argentina last year :) . No, I'm not kidding, sheep and other
animals appeared
dead with strange wounds, and people started saying it was a Chupacabra.
Don't know
how this ended, tough.
Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 22:04:09 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Erik Jameson escreveu:
>
> At 11:02 AM 5/5/98 -0600, you wrote:
> Gah. That's a small fetish now; given the medical advances by 205x, it
> would have to be a thriving fetish niche industry. Egads. And think of
> the plot devices that could be used with this...what better way to hide
> yourself from everyone than to change not only your appearance but your
> sex? Kinda like that one guy/girl in Escape from LA actually.
"Here sirs, we come to ancient ground of accursed springs,
Jusenkyo..."
I've thinking of this since a while back, I mean the "water curses"
from
Ranma 1/2 as Edges or Flaws. With a bit of tweaking (okay, maybe a LOT
of tweaking :) )
They could prove interesting. Any ideas?
Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 14:27:21 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Corporate power
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Cobra escreveu:
>
>In SR, megacorps aren't as powerful as in Cyberpunk.
I'll have to disagree with you on this one. The AAA Megacorps of
SR are way more powerful than those corps in CP (which aren't even
called
"megacorps"...) They'd be equal to second or third tier SR corps (AA or
A),
since they're big and multinational, but specialize in only one aspect
of the market. The Big 8 are most know for one of their activities, but
do everything and are everywhere.
Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:13:06 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Cyberware 2060/Jettware!
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Jessica Grota escreveu:
>
>
> Heh...ironic. Jett was a morphine addict for a while after she got her
> scars. She was horribly traumatized both physically and mentally. She
> proved just how strong she could be, though, and kicked that nasty
> habit. Although she nearly relapsed once under heavy stress, which made
> for great RP...
>
> --Jett
This one (named Kim) had the "habit" as a -6 points flaw ( I was
thinking
long term when I built her for the player...). Her player quit the group
before starting, and I reused the stats with some changing to another
guy who wanted in,
giving the numbers another name/background... :)
Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:22:28 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Cyber and Body Index (was Re: Munchkinism at it's finest)
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Jonathan Andrews escreveu:
> but if essence reduction on cyber comes from organic componentts, then how
> come they reduce impact on magic attribute? bioware is still organic, but
> it affect magicians adversely...
I believe "high-grade" cyberware doesn't have organic components,
it's just
built more carefully and is adjusted to the individual user. Normal
cyber doesn't
have this, it's quite generic (like, pre-defined sizes, etc.). Alpha
would have
some adjustable settings, Beta would be custom-fit. Delta, well, every
idividual
chip and bolt of those is propably made specially for the individual.
Wich each
increasing grade, the cyber is more and more adjusted to the user,
making it less
invasive. It doesn't mean organic components or magic.
Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 04:42:58 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners
In-Reply-To: <015201bd7a17$04711c00$5a5211ac@********.mincom.oz.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>What disappointed me was the demise of variable staging for _spells_, and
>spell drain. Sure, it made the design more complex, but the munchkin trick
>of casting high drain spells at low force, and throwing away the drain just
>wasn't possible. If you slung major mojo around in SR1, you were going to
>take drain... it wasn't uncommon for drain to need 3 or 4 successes per
>level, so if you throw a big spell around, you'd be assured based on the
>number of available dice that you'll take at least a light or even a
>moderate drain. Now, you can toss Force 4 with Deadly drain spells around
>all day, nearly. (Willpower 6, keep 3 dice back from the spell casting test
>to resist drain).
I think they wanted the same system for everything... Not a bad idea.
It also was possible to do some rule bending in SR1. If I remember well,
stun spell had very low drains which made them quite easy to launch. The
big spells are always very difficult to launch...
And finally, they lost staging they added modifiers to the power so you
didn't lose any variation between spells.
Staging for spell effects made them quite impossible to resist... With a
staging of 1 (and most of the spell used by PCs had such a staging), it was
a ultimate weapon !
Generaly, SR1 was very unbalanced and somewhat usually unrealistic...
>This is one area of SR2 that needs serious overhaul in SR3, IMHO.
I never had any problem with it. When I look at my players, I can see them
suffer from drain. And a light wound is always a big problem in SR (perhaps
too much).
You can calculate drains with force instead of force/2.
- Cobra.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 04:43:05 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the SingleShadowrunner(t
In-Reply-To: <25856.199805072353@*****.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>|>It basically allows for a more intelligent choice of weapons than
>|>"I'll grab a heavy pistol - which one doesn't matter, 'cause they're
>|>all 9M"...
>|
>|All heavy pistols were 4M2...
>
>Not all. SSC. Firepower ammo and the good ol' faithfull Predator and
>Predator II. (The Predator didn't have a reactive trigger, or the ability to
>use Firepower ammo, which added +2 to power, the Pred II could ONLY handle
>Firepower.... It was my fave weapon before ShRII came out and spoilt it...)
I've forgotten this one. Anyway this came from ammo and not from the pistol
itself... :)
>|This system was a bit stupid sometime... When you used explosive ammo, it
>|increased the staging by 1, thus making it more difficult to kill someone.
>
>But more difficult to resist the damage that'd already been inflicted.
>Variable staging always was a double edged sword.
Not very realistic. This is typically a RPG effect without relation to
reality.
- Cobra.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 22:43:07 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: K's Dark History (A Real Warning to the Munchkin Kind)
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Recently, inspired by my own retorts and the like, I have come to a notion of
sorts. For years here in Lafalot, I was just about the only major SR GM
around. Others were there sure, but none had the group resources or time
availability that we did.
We played, By all the Gods, Good or Evil, did we play.
Started as Shaper/Vampire mixtures, simply because they made a good lure for
players with inner feelings all their own to be "really different".
Years passed, then we started adding the "Immortals", which wasn't that big a
deal because Vampires were immortal too, they just weren't that old (yet
anyway :)
Then one day, someone took my Primary Personal GM Rule #1 and ignored it
completely...
"I do not care what kind of character you play, no matter the power or type.
I just ask one favor. Remember that I will adjust the power of the game to
better balance everything out so as to give all involved a challenging and
enjoyable time. So please remember the rest of the group as well as
yourself."
One guy came along and decided he was far more important than the entire group
combined. I should have outright killed his character while I had the chance.
I one day overheard him talking with some newer players to the particular
campaign say..."Keith won't kill us, he'll just bring us back somehow".
The straw didn't break. I lit it on Fire. I took science to the final limit
in SR, by taking the rumor of "biogenetic development" to the final limit. I
invented someone that even if he killed, he would come back. I brought about
Clone Wars. For almost 3 months the group homed in on anything even remotely
related to this "Ulta-Villain". It cost several characters and what seemed
for so long like no limit to the friendships in RL. In the end, only a few
remained as part of "my game group". Mike was just starting his 'career' as a
SR Player when this was happening. I kept reminding every player for all that
time of my phrase and they each kept looking at me as the fault. Perhaps I
was, perhaps I wasn't. That's in the past now. Those players decided that a
personal vendetta had been created, even when I made attempts to cut the power
back. In the end, it (the entire campaign structure) simply collapsed and I
walked away from a game storyline I had created 9 years earlier in an entirely
different game system.
Now, after 7 years or more of SR gaming, I still live in that "Historic
Shadow". Occasionally some of "the Old Group" show up or we run into each
other. A few of them and I actually sit down, have some drinks and talk about
stuff. Most of the time, I try and keep the conversation off of gaming to
some extent. But because of who/how I GMed before, they had to know what I
was doing.
Power, a Drug Best Left having never been tested....
Now Mike is GM, and I will only finish the PBEM and occasionally give him an
oft' needed vacation so he can play out an idea or too really quick. Most of
those players still play the same way they always did, and I remain very
distant whenever possible.
Yes, we (the current group) is trying to play out characters to the "never-
ending end". Binder has been around for ages now, and it's fun watching him
continue to change and grow and remain the same all at once. Two of the
players here about two months ago came to a public statement of "we've never
had a single character this long or this powerful, we aren't sure what to do
now..." Our response was more or less ... "just keep playing, make longer
plans, create a character with a "Soul" for lack of better terms."
They have.
They really like it.
Characters with family ties, contacts, connections, more interest in B/R
skills than any other category (we are all currently in a "Toy" competition).
PCs who have found ways to continue growing.
"Threats" (the Sourcebook) has become a guide of sorts, just not direclty.
Three of us are directly a part of one aspect of that book (Erik probably can
guess which one). The tale I mentioned where a PC unleashed his fury on an IE
was about the extents and sacrifices that we have made in order to keep the
character alive. To go the final steps and then keep walking. Mythos (a
friend of Rob Nesius by name of Steve once had a girlfriend who knew Duane
Brickler who nearly joined a PBEM some 6 years ago now) is someone who has
gone through a ringer I wouldn't have put Binder through in all honesty. And
when you sit back and let Duane play the character and just leave him alone.
It is AWESOME!!!!
No, he wouldn't be able to beat an IE toe-to-toe, but he knows he make things
as hard as possible. We also know he as a PC has something that no NPC is
ever going to really have, lest the author of the NPC takes over. A "Soul".
He shares part of my belief that I have given to Binder. The Power isn't the
ultimate goal. Living Is. As long as you can remain a live, you can continue
trying to be whatever you can be. The only thing greater is letting someone
else have your gift. Meaning when you care so much about something that
"Character Sacrifice" can be done with real, deeply rooted, Role Playing
Intentions.
What am I saying now? I know, it's more of an aimless Rant. I guess I am
trying to say to anyone who "knows they aren't a munchkin even if they are in
truth" is pay more attention to what you point the finger at. Maybe we aren't
all "Munchkins", but I think most of us are deeply. I think most of us want
to feel invulnerable, feel powerful.
Especially if we've had a particularly bad day at work.
Especially if we've lost a good friend recently.
Especially if we've discovered that no one is going to let us forget our own
mistakes, least of all ourselves.
Anyone really care what level another character is? If so, you can find the
"Hoosier Hacker House" and find a very tamed down version of Binder. But I
ask a favor if you decide to do so. A chain of favors as it were.
Remember that when looking at this, it is not not merely a collection of
numbers and HTM code.
Remember that it is something someone poored an awful lot of time into.
Remember that it is something that, though maybe not right for youself, it was
right for someone else.
Remember that it is something that belongs to someone that cared more about
what other people wanted to ultimately do that he wanted to do himself.
Imagine the fun and literally -THOUSANDS- of hours of enjoyment that this
character may have created. Not only for the person to whom played it. But
for everyone that played with that person as well.
Imagine the level of the term "Epic" that must have surrounded this character.
Imagine that this "Nightmare" is not your own, it was something someone else
went through and is now offering up to the world to see. As a sort of memento
of what has happened before and what could happen again if people aren't going
to learn to understand "Sacrifice" one damn bit.
No, Binder is not a character for every campaign world. But he is something
that works in ANY campaign world. But that isn't the character I guess. I
guess that is the lessons learned by the player of that character. Who has
had his own games cross the lines of near-extinction more times than he cares
to remember (and he remembers them all sadly). Were Binder to be in your
games, as NPC or PC (an event that if I win the Lottery ever, I would love to
do) I only ask that you think about the type of person he represents.
Not his power level, as numbers are so hard for most of us to see past at any
given moment.
Not the fact that you know you aren't reading everything, simply because so
much of the sheet has (10+) or (20+) written on it the strangest of places.
Just remember that the guy who made him isn't a destroyer of a game. He's the
one who made an 14 (I finally added them all up right) year promise come to
fulfillment.
The promise?
I made a promise once to one of the guys that taught me how to play AD&D all
those years ago that I would never forget their story, regardless of whatever
happened to us as people.
I didn't. And it took me enough perserverance to rival Christ I like to think
to see that story to the end.
That character is part of that story.
No, not every character with these power levels will be like this. In fact, I
can probably guarantee that most of them won't be. I wish everyone out there
would simply enjoy the game all the time. Most of us do, otherwise we
wouldn't want to spend hours a week (some of us a day, hey Nexx??? :) to
getting to know what other gamers like to do. What makes them and their game
worlds tick as it were.
What would happen were I allowed to play "Binder" with a number of the "Old
Group". I don't know. He'd probably get them all into a big bar, like the
Rhino in Seattle or something, make sure he bought them one good round of
drinks with a toast "to Old Friends and Older Memories".
He'd then toss in more karmic force and desire into the casting of a single
spell, one that could only be cast by a magician once ever in his life.
Because it would utlize his Life as the power behind.
He'd probably kill them all, especially the ones that thought they knew him
and wondered what happened when their "friend" decided they weren't
"friends"
anymore.
Of course, he'd die to. Only the Hat would be left behind, knowing that
stupid legend that surrounds it now....
-K
PS...sorry for the rant. I do honestly know the difference between a "Power
Gamer" a "Munchkin" and "Role Playing". I just added
"Patience" and
"Longevity" to the list as well....
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 22:51:45 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners
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In a message dated 5/7/98 6:53:09 PM US Eastern Standard Time, erikj@****.COM
writes:
> To try and drag this kicking and screaming back on-topic, how old are your
> PCs? Excepting any munchy IEs and the like that is.
Hey now, watch that munching...someone's gonna get hurt... :P
> It's been my experience that most runner are between 18 and 25. Anyone
> notably older than that (Keith, I know you have one or two there)? My own
> primary PC is I think 32 years old; nearly ancient by SR standards I think.
Binder is ... old ... he doesn't really know his true age anymore. But he's
not immortal, he just lived with a twisted curse for a while. For those who
understand this term, he's something of a "Slider", and isn't even sure where
"Home" really is anymore either. Erik, why do you think he studied Metamagic
so heavily when we did that "bit convo" in the bar? He is looking still ...
Prophet (for those of TK that remember him ;) is a kid, who looks older than
he is (actually 16, but thanks to genetics, he's mid 20's physically).
Shivowtnoeh. Good ol' Shivy. My first SR character. The Siberian Shaper
Tiger Hermetic Magician. Yes, for those lucky TK people, the -BIG CAT- was
me, he just never spoke up. In the original game timeline, he died of "old
age" at about 48 or so. He was started at age 39. He was the one true "Force
of Nature" I ever allowed myself to go animate with in a game. Sometimes I
wish I could -really- play him again. (oh the the one true longing for First
Edition that I have)
> Anyway, sorry for rambling and taking this topic so far astray from SR. I
> guess I'm just getting senile in my old age... ;-)
This little ol' post, a rambling??? Nah, that other one I put out...that's a
rambling.. :)
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 22:54:40 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Possible Vehicle Economy Fix
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In a message dated 5/7/98 6:59:13 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
wgallas@*****.FR writes:
> >BTW, IMO, all micro sized drones should be electric powered.
>
> Do you really use economics during game sessions ?
>
OH YEAH!!! But then again remember, our game is -truly- International. Fuel
for that DAMN helicopter alone kills off 1 in 3 runs worth of money....why on
earth do you think we build Magic/Tech mergers here so much? Spells that
augment lift and/or "efficiency of operation". Specific variations on ruling
for Movement for Nature Spirits and many elementals.
Oh yeah, Economics is the BASIS of SR, Corporate OR Runner...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 23:01:51 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: ENOUGH!!! (Re: Shadowrun: Off course! (loong!))
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In a message dated 5/7/98 7:42:19 PM US Eastern Standard Time, erikj@****.COM
writes:
> Damn it, I wish this concept would just die. FASA IS NOT DROPPING MAGIC
> FROM SHADOWRUN!!! There, did I yell loud enough for you to hear?
>
> >Quit screwing with magic,
> >FASA. Don't fix what ain't broken. If you find magic too powerful, step
> >up the competition, or tone down what mojo players get.
>
> Magic in SR works great, better than any other system, I believe. But it
> sure as hell isn't perfect and Steve Kenson and FASA are working very hard
> to fix those elements that *are* broken; and there are things that are
> broken and need to be fixed. That's probably part of the purpose for SR3.
>
OKAY!!! Folks, I am really sorry for ever starting this topic (check the
logs, this is MINE). I have always known that FASA wasn't going to drop
magic, and have talked with others at FASA to prove that fact (and if the HD
hadn't crashed, those recordings I had would still be in tact).
Steve K. is working his mind, body, soul, and imaginative spirit ragged on the
new magic (among other things) for FASA's SR3. Why do think I am going to
GenCon this year? Come on, this one is important to see and hear and meet.
Magic does need help, and I think it's the BEST magic system of any of the
RPG's in general. But that help even needs help.
My only complaint that I have had is that I just wish (longing here) that
Steve wasn't working on this "apparently alone". I know that his worked is
perused by others, but he's the one we on the list at least, hear the most
about (exposure problems???).
But the ideas that the new magic is being based upon are obviously somewhat
set at this point (a year or six months ago, maybe/maybe not). The fine
tunings are just not fixed up yet.
Damn, it's late and I still don't have the chapter for the PBEM...gotta keep
plowing here...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 23:54:30 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Philippe Garneau <aaa302@*****.ULAVAL.CA>
Subject: Shooting Blanks in the 2050's
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Hello all,
Just to mention an bit of info that have been percolating in my weird mind
for a couple of days.
Researchers in fertility research (in the 1990s) are concerned on the
rapid diminution of sperm counts in Occidental men. According to the
scientific litterature, it's likely that this diminution can be caused by
exposition to diverse airborne/water pollutants. As high sperm counts are
primordial to the male fertility, a general decrease of that would result in
widespread fertility problems.
As the levels of pollution in Shadowrun's 2050s cities have augmented
(the Seattle sourcebook mentions Stage 4 smog alerts for many days a year,
especially in the Barrens, not to mention the vivid description of
Technoctitlan), it's probable that fertility issues have risen to an
alarming level. This could affect PC's lifes directly (if they try to
conceive children), or indirectly, as player's contacts mentions having
problems getting their families started. This would of course generate a
larger market for in-vitro fertilization and other fertility treatments,
that corps of all size would exploit. A GM can integrate the idea in
multiple ways, such as:
- silly "sperm raid" on a clinic for reselling in a poorer neighborhood;
- extractions of highly specialized genecologists from a corp to another;
- getting a mage (forcefully or not) to provide a sample of his semen for a
rich woman that absolutely wants a magically active baby (that the stuff
serves quite well as a ritual link sure is a nice complication);
- close protection of a foetus-bearing mother;
- all sorts of eugenic stuff (think Humanis policlub or see Gattaca for
specific ideas);
- etc. (add your own to the list and post it).
Have fun!
_____________________________________________________
Philippe Garneau
Bachelier en Sciences, Microbiologie
Godzilla lives again! -> Memorial Day, 1998
