| From: | Unknown sender |
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Cute! I like it. I'm not sure I'll use it, but it is internally consistant.
Double-Domed Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:18:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Craig J Wilhelm Jr <craigjwjr@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: (OT--WAY OT) Age
In-Reply-To: <000401bd78a5$94618d40$f48ecdcd@****>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On 12:15 AM 5/6/98 , Katt Freyson wrote:
> What you meant, I assume, is that the year after your dad turned
27, her
>turned 27 again, and did that for the next 26 years, right? Making him 54.
Yeah, that's it. Sheesh. Remind me to not answer mail after 36 hours with
no sleep...
> A friend of mine used the expression, "I'm 18, with 5 years of
experience."
Sounds about right for me, just add another year, and some water: Instant
Craig. :D
Craig "Knee Deep in the Blood of Swine" Wilhelm
Afterlife Incorperated,
Quality Carnage at Affordable Prices.
UIN: 1864690
-------------BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
v3.12
GAT/$ d- s+:+ a- C+++ U--- P+ L- E-- W++ N++
o K- w+ O> !M-- !V PS+ PE Y+ PGP++ t--- 5+++
X-- R++ tv b++ DI-- D+(Q2++) G++ e++ h* r y++**
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:21:06 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Critical Hit revisited
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Drekhead wrote:
>> On table 2, why did you alternate between minor and major like that?
>> If you roll a 3 with a light wound you will be louder than if you
>> had a medium? The odds might work out, but it seems
>> counter-intuitive.
>
>I guess I wanted a more random result. What would be better? Group
>them together?
I'd say so. You haven't yet accounted for things like the Pain
Editor, Trauma Damper, Pain Resistance, Hyper... These could skew
the results in one direction or the other. Breaking a bone and
spinning should be based on actual damage, while clutching and covering
should be based on felt damage. It complicates things a little more,
though.
James Ojaste
>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:32:08 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
Subject: Re: RP Karma award (was Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks))
In-Reply-To: <199805061038.MAA15379@*****.xs4all.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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|> Subject: RP Karma award (was Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks))
|> > I personally dislike the RP karma award, since it's... rewarding the
|> > character for something the player should be doing anyway.
|> Roleplaying is,
|> > after all, the point of this game. It doesn't make sense for
|> a character
|> > to gain experience and 'luck' because he is so completely
|> 'himself' that day.
Well, I don't see it that way at all, but this is a valid viewepoint I
guess. I see it as a case of rewarding the PLAYER for playing his part
correctly. If you view it as a reward to the player, rather than the
character, then reward for staying in character makes sense. True, as you
say, role-playing is the point of the game, ergo it should be encouraged and
rewarded.
Katt Freyson
ICQ UIN 3337155
Montreal, Canada
http://www.dsuper.net/~katt
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:35:12 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Critical Hit revisited
In-Reply-To:
<cÊ%a=GOVMT.CANADA%p=GC+EC%lìNCR_EXCH2-980506162106Z-97424@***.ncr.ec.gc.ca>
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On 6 May 98 at 12:21, Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote:
> Drekhead wrote:
> >> On table 2, why did you alternate between minor and major like that?
> >> If you roll a 3 with a light wound you will be louder than if you
> >> had a medium? The odds might work out, but it seems
> >> counter-intuitive.
> >
> >I guess I wanted a more random result. What would be better? Group
> >them together?
>
> I'd say so. You haven't yet accounted for things like the Pain
> Editor, Trauma Damper, Pain Resistance, Hyper... These could skew
> the results in one direction or the other.
Yeah, this is very preliminary. I guess how ever those things you
list would affect the normal knockdown rules would apply here as
well, and I don't really know how they do.
> Breaking a bone and
> spinning should be based on actual damage, while clutching and
> covering should be based on felt damage. It complicates things a
> little more, though.
Yes. Freak things happen, people react different to situations,
etc., which is why I think a random table is best. I tried being more
specific like you suggest, but I couldn't do it without a hit
location system, and that greatly complicates things.
--
=================================================================
-DREKHEAD- drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
==================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:09:26 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
>I was involved a somewhat heated debate on this topic at one point. I
>tend to like things mystical with strong tie ins to myth, legend and
>magic. If I wanted to play gritty cyberpunk I would be using a
different
>gameing system. :) Magic is what makes Shadowrun special and IMO a much
>enriched game by not being just one of many games in the cyberpunk
>gerne.
>
>
I'm with you, Sheldon; one of the things that attracted my group to the
game was the addition of magic and how FASA tied it all in with myth,
mysticism, and a logical explanation on how the astral, spells and
spirits all tied together and worked as a whole. I tried a CP campaign,
and a pretty punkish Spacemaster campaign, but they were too dark and
serious for those not into the real CP end of things. SR was a great
mesh of near-future punk, magic, and an inclusive background that
brought it all together. I have to say that FASA's support and
receptiveness to consumers and attitude all contributed to that success
as well.
>> But still, we play the same game... That's the beauty of SR, or any
other
>> RPG... Play like you damn want shall be the whole of the law, or
>> something :)
>
>This we can argee on at least... Do I think FASA is off base personally
>yes I do I agree with making the IE's not such a big big deal, but that
>is the only thing I like about the new direction.
>
The most fun we ever had role-playing has been romping through the two
Harley adventures, and I will continue to use the influence of the IE's
for years to come; others can focus on other aspects of the game, and
that is great. It makes the whole much greater that the sum of its
parts, and we all benefit from that.
Tony Rabiola rabiola@**.netcom.com
Fourth and Sixth World Adept
Still working on the Fifth...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:17:47 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
>>> and Azania and Amazonia, and with all the Japanese megacorps, I'm
>>> amazed there hasn't been a Japan sourcebook, or one for eastern
>>> Asia.
>>
>>FASAMike has directly stated that he sees no need or use for a
>>Japan sourcebook. While most of us may disagree, that's the way it
>>is. Me, I plan on putting my requests on all my product cards.
>
>Do you have a direct quote for this? <g> While I personally would find
>very little use for a Japan sourcebook, I certainly think there's
enough
>people that want it to warrant FASA finding a way to fit one into the
>schedule and timeline.
>
I'll second that one; the area is so rich with background and different
types of magic/spirits/atmosphere, it would be a great addition to the
game.
Tony Rabiola rabiola@**.netcom.com
Fourth and Sixth World Adept
Still working on the Fifth...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:33:36 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alexia Silverstein <alexia_silverstein@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex and the single shadowrunner?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
<snip>
>As far as Barbie killing with sex, you've
> all heard what her measurements would be if she was real correct?
> Heck at that point, I think there would be a damage bonus for the
> smothering affect. :)
> Lehlan Decker
<snip>
Smothering, she'd have to make shure she doesn't poke out his eye...
~Alexia
http://www.sova.net/trish/shadowrun/
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 13:42:52 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Brian Moore <mooreb@****.FAC.COM>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
In-Reply-To: <354F821F.7733@*********.com> from "Jessica Grota" at May 5,
98 05:28:56 pm
Content-Type: text
Jessica Grota <grota@*********.COM> said:
> Brian Moore wrote:
> >
> > My PC mage tries to keep 2 other PCs around when making Orichalcum. He
> > keeps a small stock of the big 4 radicals that he usually makes himself,
> > so he doesn't have to buy any. He makes an average of 8 units of
> > Orichalcum per attempt (skill 6 & Centering, TN of 2 due to high MR).
> > That has a retail value of around 700,000 nY. You can be sure that
> > the only people who know what he's doing are the PC bodyguards (who
> > usually expect to get foci made from the Orichalcum).
>
>
> Sounds like a good deal. Feel like hiring a dual-natured, heavily wired
> samurai for that? Jett is looking for work and needs a weapon focus...
Weapon focus? Get in line. My character finally decided he needed one.
So did the other mage. And the PhysAdept wants 2! The last mage chose
a weapon focus during my last enchanting binge, but now he wants a Power
Focus (which is what the rest of us got previously). The Power Focus
will be like the others he's made, Force 3, but the weapon foci will all
be different, and probably Force 4 or 5. My character is trying to figure
out how many months he needs to spend making Orichalcum.
To pay for it, all the other PCs will pay me a ridiculously small amount
of nuyen, bodyguard the entire process (probably upwards of four months
in all!), probably make up the designs (using Magic Theory), and acquire
the raw materials and additional radicals I'll need.
Unfortunately, the enchanting happens in a remote Lodge we use as the HQ
for our Initiatory Group, members only. And my mage has decided that he
will only make foci for members of the Initiatory Group. But if you
happen to be an elf and a Hermetic Mage or PhysAdept, there's always a
chance. We don't advertise (Secrecy stricture on the group), but there
are people who know that my Mage is a good Enchanter.
--
Brian Moore, mooreb@***.com | I wrote up a nice script to truncate all News&
First Albany Corp. Sysadmin | Mail sigs that are greater than 4 lines long.
standard disclaimers apply | It is still in beta testing due to an off-by-
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 13:51:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Critical Hit revisited
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Drekhead wrote:
>> >> On table 2, why did you alternate between minor and major like that?
>> >> If you roll a 3 with a light wound you will be louder than if you
>> >> had a medium? The odds might work out, but it seems
>> >> counter-intuitive.
>> >
>> >I guess I wanted a more random result. What would be better? Group
>> >them together?
>>
>> I'd say so. You haven't yet accounted for things like the Pain
>> Editor, Trauma Damper, Pain Resistance, Hyper... These could skew
>> the results in one direction or the other.
>
>Yeah, this is very preliminary. I guess how ever those things you
>list would affect the normal knockdown rules would apply here as
>well, and I don't really know how they do.
Well, AFAIK the knockdown rules are intended to mean "physically
losing balance due to the impact", not "Argh! I've been shot!".
I'd say that each of those really only modifies table 2... Pain
Editor means don't roll on T2 at all, Hyper add +x, Pain Resistance
means don't roll if the damage is under your tolerance level. I'm
not sure if TD should affect the roll in the first place...
>> Breaking a bone and
>> spinning should be based on actual damage, while clutching and
>> covering should be based on felt damage. It complicates things a
>> little more, though.
>
>Yes. Freak things happen, people react different to situations,
>etc., which is why I think a random table is best. I tried being more
>specific like you suggest, but I couldn't do it without a hit
>location system, and that greatly complicates things.
Well, just say that T1 is physical damage and T2 is the response
to the pain from the physical damage.
Actually, why not roll on each? Just apply the knockdown to T1,
but roll T2 every time you're hit. It'd take longer, but it would
be more graphic...
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 13:46:35 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sex and the single shadowrunner?
In-Reply-To: <19980506173336.24865.rocketmail@******.yahoomail.com> from
"Alexia Silverstein" at May 6, 98 10:33:36 am
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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>
> <snip>
> >As far as Barbie killing with sex, you've
> > all heard what her measurements would be if she was real correct?
> > Heck at that point, I think there would be a damage bonus for the
> > smothering affect. :)
>
> > Lehlan Decker
> <snip>
>
> Smothering, she'd have to make shure she doesn't poke out his eye...
>
That too. Doe this table take into account if their real or plastic? :)
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 14:03:31 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: DNA/DOA
<snip: What is this? D&D?>
You know, when DNA/DOA first came out, I bought it and thought
"Wow! this is the best adventure I've ever read!", but when I dusted it
off, in order to run it again last year I read it and said "What a piece of
crap!". It took me a while to figure out what happened...
When DNA/DOA came out, the only things I had to judge it against were
TSR modules of the 70s and 80s (yes, I bought modules in the 70s, lets
not do that "age thread" thing :) These were pretty much a map, lists of
the monsters and traps in each room, and a wandering monster table or
two. Compare that to DNA/DOA and the difference hits you like a
thunderbolt: an adventure divided into scenes instead of rooms, a clear
narative flow (too clear, it means leading the PCs around by the nose),
lots of atmosphere, backstabing, political machinations... Remember, the
"Plot synopsis", "Tell it to them straight", etc. and the datafax
handouts
at the end were all, as far as I know, pioneered by this adventure.
It wasn't as worthless as it seems now (although I wouldn't run it today,
it did it first, not did it well).
Double-Domed Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 14:32:56 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
Gurth wrote:
> As I was typing this just now, I suddenly realized somebody big gets
>taken out of the game world in each year...
This reminds me of something JMS wrote about writing Babylon 5: (a
paraphrase) "every once in a while I look around with a gun in my hand
and think-will the story be more interesting without THAT character".
The point he was trying to make is that there is no better way to shake
things up than to remove something people were counting on.
Double-Domed Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 13:07:37 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <199805061844.MAA16543@******.carl.org> from "Mike Elkins"
at May
6, 98 02:32:56 pm
Content-Type: text
Mike Elkins wrote:
/
/ Gurth wrote:
/ > As I was typing this just now, I suddenly realized somebody big gets
/ >taken out of the game world in each year...
/
/ This reminds me of something JMS wrote about writing Babylon 5: (a
/ paraphrase) "every once in a while I look around with a gun in my hand
/ and think-will the story be more interesting without THAT character".
/ The point he was trying to make is that there is no better way to shake
/ things up than to remove something people were counting on.
Hmm... You know, I did that recently in my campaign and didn't even
realize what I was doing when I killed off a Dragon that was boxing
my story line. The players thought they had every thing figured out
until they saw the dragon killed in front of their eyes.
Now I'm rethinking my plan to leave the Bug hive in Denver (moved it
from Chicago for my game). It might be more interesting to have the
PCs wake up one morning to find that the UCAS has lifted the
quarentine and everything is back to normal. I wonder what level of
paranoia that will cause. <EGM>
-David
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 13:13:04 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <19980506055442.20538.qmail@*******.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 22:54 05/05/98 PDT, you wrote:
>>> Agreed. But I could quite happily play Shadowrun if magic was never
>>> introduced to it.
>>
>>Oh, definitely. But it'd really mess the entire game up to put in
>>magic and then take it out after having it for a decade
>
> I can't believe I'm reading this... if you don't like the magic... go
>play Cyberpunk. Magic is what made SR what it is.
<sigh>
I didn't say I didn't like the magic. But Shadowrun would still be
Shadowrun if it didn't have magic, it would just be different. During most
of my games magic barely enters into the equation at all -- it's that rare.
Then again, neither do guns in my game..
What *is* Shadowrun? Is it a game? A world? A world with magic? No. It's
whatever you want it to be.
-Adam J
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 15:54:32 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980506131304.00887850@****.lis.ab.ca> from "Adam
J"
at May 6, 98 01:13:04 pm
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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>
> At 22:54 05/05/98 PDT, you wrote:
> <sigh>
>
> I didn't say I didn't like the magic. But Shadowrun would still be
> Shadowrun if it didn't have magic, it would just be different. During most
> of my games magic barely enters into the equation at all -- it's that rare.
> Then again, neither do guns in my game..
>
> What *is* Shadowrun? Is it a game? A world? A world with magic? No. It's
> whatever you want it to be.
>
True, but for most of of, what makes it different from say COP2020 etc
is the unique combination of magic,matrix, and guns. :)
If you remove the magic, it removes some of the uniqueness. (Well for me
anyway).
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 21:57:20 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Sprawl Sites (was Re: Feeling old)
In-Reply-To: <199805061443.QAA18739@****.mhnet.fr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Cobra said on 16:50/ 6 May 98...
> I don't like Sprawl Sites. Archetypes and contacts are almost the sames as
> in the SR2 screen
Yeah, that's cause FASA reprinted the contacts section of Sprawl Sites and
the archetypes from a nmber of books that didn't make it into SR2 in that
contacts booklet... Before the SRII GM screen came out, Sprawl Sites was a
good thing to own for the extra contacts and archetypes. (And also part of
the reason why I never bothered to buy the GM screen until I found one
cheap on a second-hand games stand at a con.)
> I never heard of this one. What is the detail level of maps ? Do they all
> fit in a 205* environment ? Is there anything in addition to maps ?
Assuming "this one" means the Millennium's End GM's Companion I referred
to, the maps are very high quality, with a semi-3D effect that shows how
high things are -- unlike in Sprawl Sites where you have to guess -- and a
good description of what's where.
Naturally it's all aimed at the ME game, which is set in the modern world
(more or less -- it's slightly more chaotic) but almost all the maps are
usable for Shadowrun, IMHO. Picking a few randomly: large bar, trendy
restaurant, convenience store, art gallery or museum, large office
building, international airport, modern villa, corporate compound,
terrorist training camp, bunkers, luxury yacht, and a lot more.
About 1/3rd of the book is devoted to the maps. The rest has generic GMing
advice (the kind all these books give), adventure elements and ideas
(useful for SR as well), computer networks (not really useful for SR),
NPCs (again not useful for SR except for general ideas), lists to give
names to NPCs (good idea, but <plug> I prefer GameName
http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/pw/gameprogs.html </plug> :) organization
diagrams of various, well, organizations (could be useful in SR), and a
short list of movies relevant to the ME game world. All in all if you play
ME then this is a very good resource, for SR I find it quite handy mainly
because of the maps, but then I play ME as well so I have it on my shelf
anyway. I suggest you look through it in a game store before making up
your mind.
> >we'll have to write a net.book with encounters like that...
>
> Good idea. We should classify them by locations. The first group would be
> the security rating (AAA to Z) and the second the place where it takes
> place : Street, Bar, etc.
> I'll think about some ideas and will report it.
And we need to keep it simple -- Sprawl Sites has half-adventures, not
encounters. Hmm... is this an idea for the next PW book?
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 21:57:20 +0100
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Sprawl Sites (was Re: Feeling old)
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Paul Yan said on 8:23/ 6 May 98...
> A good idea if you dislike the maps and sites so much is to go to
> some of your favorite places and take pictures of them. I did that once
> and went to my neighborhood MacDonalds and used their layout for a
> restaurant scene in a game. That challenged the players to use an
> environment to their full potential. No favortism, no easy answers.
> The challenge is the fun.
An easy way to make sure you get a location correct is to try and use
those you yourself have been and know reasonably well. When my players
went to see a fixer in an abandoned store, I used the layout of a store I
worked in a few years ago, for example. The advantage is that you'll have
a good picture of what is where (and why) and can hopefully make the
players see it more easily than when you're trying to come up with a
believable building on the fly.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:22:22 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: John Penta <johndevil@****.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
At 10:33 AM 5/5/98 -0500, Sheldon Rose wrote:
> I am asking the question of exactly what the subject says. Is FASA
>drifting
> on/off course in it's storyline. I am not implementing a Spoiler
>Warning of
> any kind, so just in case anyone may think this is a "sensitive
>topic", you
> have been warned. NO BOOK is sacred in this post.
Ok. Everybody REALLY oughta put in some spoiler space, when discussing
Sourcebooks and stuff. IMO, SR has stayed kinda on-course, but FASA is
*definitely* getting IRRITATING with their new habit of putting a part of
the story in sourcebooks, and the rest in novels. I stopped by
Barnes&Noble the other day...the Barnes&Noble CHAIN, AFAIK, now doesn't
carry SR Novels. Why? Because FASA now has it going to game stores. my
local game store can't carry novels, simply due to distributor issues(as
the guy at the game store, HobbyMasters, said. not sure)....ARRRGH.
Another fact is also that a LOT of info is now contained in sourcebooks
ya see once in a milennium. My parents generally only let me spend a MAX
of $30 per 3 MONTHS on game stuff, which is beginning to make following
SR futile. Arg.
John
_____________________________________________________________________
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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:50:35 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John Penta <johndevil@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
>At 03:04 PM 5/5/98 -0400, Erik wrote:
>I think most people avoid it because it can quickly degenerate into
>immaturity quickly. I mean, sex that had THAC0's for example.
<smiles> I know what ya mean. I'll be going from a LOT of people here,
but can't quote em all, so, sorry in advance. But, anyway...Erik's reason
is valid. occasionally that does happen. But, being a 14 year old male
here...One reason I've found most RPGers simply *don't* include sex is
because, well...most are male...to RP a female is...odd, in our minds.
From what I've seen/observed...females in RPGs? at my age(which basically
starts RPG-playing)? Not gonna happen, simply because:A. Most teen RPGers
are the mostly socially-isolated people, and are as such not quite
wanting to think about the possible situations because of the *raw* nerve
it hits. B. We're already concerned that we may never date. We play RPGs
to get AWAY from such things. bringing a female into the game, or
bringing up sex in real detail(done in VAGUE forms, else it, to quote the
DM of my AD&D group, "just feels...*bad* to get into"), exacerbates our
problems of not just relating with the opposite sex(Like that ain't a
problem for single males no matter *what* the age!:)), but with most
people.
Ok, I have a feeling I'll start to ramble here. I'll end now.
John
_____________________________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 16:39:36 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Alex van der Kleut <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <19980506.162432.3814.0.johndevil@****.com>
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At 05:22 PM 5/5/98 -0500, John Penta wrote:
>Ok. Everybody REALLY oughta put in some spoiler space, when discussing
>Sourcebooks and stuff. IMO, SR has stayed kinda on-course, but FASA is
>*definitely* getting IRRITATING with their new habit of putting a part of
>the story in sourcebooks, and the rest in novels. I stopped by
>Barnes&Noble the other day...the Barnes&Noble CHAIN, AFAIK, now doesn't
>carry SR Novels. Why? Because FASA now has it going to game stores. my
>local game store can't carry novels, simply due to distributor issues(as
>the guy at the game store, HobbyMasters, said. not sure)....ARRRGH.
>Another fact is also that a LOT of info is now contained in sourcebooks
>ya see once in a milennium. My parents generally only let me spend a MAX
>of $30 per 3 MONTHS on game stuff, which is beginning to make following
>SR futile. Arg.
I think that you have a problem with your store. I was just in a
Waldenbooks yesterday and they had Technobable there. And I got it there a
few weeks ago, AFAIK when it first came out. The Barnes and Noble up the
street had it too. Talk to the manager, maybe they just don't order them at
that store because of low volume. Even if they don't order it in bulk, they
should be able to special order it for you. I know most of the chains
around here, including this B&N, will pre-order it for you, so you get it
first.
Sommers
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 15:40:50 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
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----------
> From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
> But Shadowrun would still be
> Shadowrun if it didn't have magic, it would just be different.
Adam, I respect your work on this list greatly, but that has got to be
the most moronic phrase in the entire English Language, and likely quite a
few others. X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
different.
***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
"Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn lasts
forever"
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
"Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo the
better part of humor."
aka Ellegon, Working at making Cannon canon
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are crunchy
and good with ketchup."
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Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 13:59:30 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Alexia Silverstein <alexia_silverstein@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
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---John Penta <johndevil@****.COM> wrote:
<snip>
> From what I've seen/observed...females in RPGs? at my age(which
basically
> starts RPG-playing)? Not gonna happen, simply because:A. Most teen
RPGers
> are the mostly socially-isolated people, and are as such not quite
> wanting to think about the possible situations because of the *raw*
nerve
> it hits. B. We're already concerned that we may never date. <snip>
So that's why when I started playing magic in high school guys looked
at me funny when I brought my own deck in and asked if I could
join...the looked at me even funnier when I won.
I do see what you are saying though about females not getting into
roleplaying and the sort...Alot of girls just aren't into it. But on
the other hand I've always been a tomboy with my head in the clouds,
nose in a book, hating most of my classmates (almost completely
opposite of my best friend Jackie). I've mentioned RPGing to some gals
here in college and they were like what's that? So I guess I really
can see what you mean.
But if it makes you feel any better I got my friend Cara (chick age
almost 14) addicted to Earthdawn.
http://www.sova.net/trish
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:15:57 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: ED Races in SR; why it can't happen (long)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.95.980504172905.6790C-100000@***.nyu.edu>
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At 05:45 PM 5/4/98 -0400, you wrote:
<snip chupacabras = "ghoul t'skrang" theory by Jeremy Fisher>
Well, that idea makes a certain amount of sense. Though I don't believe
that the t'skrang had any real genetic compatibility with humans, so the
fact that chupacabras seem to have primate DNA probably throws this out,
right there. They are probably "ape ghouls" or something similar. Which
makes sense to me.
But let's just take this arguement forward for a moment, since this is an
old, old idea on RN. But I don't recall the most important question ever
being asked.
The question becomes this then. If the various incarnations of VITAS
(we're on what, 4? 5? now?> were engineered by someone to eliminate
t'skrang, windlings (I'm one of the minority that isn't sure
windlingúerie) and obsidimen, then who?
Who designed this virus and why?
The dragons? VITAS hits far too soon for them to be any kind of a real
impact, not to mention Dragons are only now becoming "tech-savvy." And
since they usually seem to be so seperate from metahumanity, why would they
care? If it were them, they probably would have designed VITAS to kill off
the elves.
The immortal elves? As much as I dislike them being the answer to
everything, they are the most likely candidates. They were around to see
the birth of genengineering. They are supposedly almost all somewhat
tech-savvy. It's entirely possible that with adequate resources, an "evil
'Leonardo'" could have designed VITAS to seek out certain genetic sequences
that are tied to the other ED races.
And I don't see anyone else even being a candidate.
But as I mentioned before, this all assumes that t'skrang, windlings and
obsidimen would be a part of metahumanity, that is, they would be
"goblinized" humans. Which is a huge assumption, and one I think is
erroneous to make.
Obsidimen seem to have some sort of relationship with their Liferock; I
have no recollection of anything regarding obsidimen mating or of
obisidimen babies. So they probably arise somehow direct from the
Liferock. This, if I'm right, would automatically eliminate the obsidimen
from being goblinized humans.
Windlings seem to be normal mammals, but they don't seem to be able to
breed with any of the other races. This could simply be sheer mechanics (a
troll and a windling? Physically impossible), but the fact that they have
magical wings also would seem to indicate that they are an entirely
different species. If windlings are the same as SR's faeries, this
supports the argument; they have a different genus (is that right? they
aren't homo sapiens mutablis or something is what I mean).
T'skrang? Sure, they're humanoid. But they are essentially lizards.
Overgrown iguanas. They probably share more genetic code with the lizards
of the Gallapagos Islands than they share with humans (similar, actually,
to how we share a sizable portion of our genetic code with chimpanzees).
T'skrang are evolved lizards just like humans are evolved apes.
So basically, I really don't think VITAS necessarily wiped out any of the
Earthdawn races. What did happen? Here's a speculation.
Okay, a lot of people believe that when the magic goes (4th to 5th worlds),
the metahumans begin to breed as humans. Trolls have human babies and so
on. But what about the non-human humanoid races?
Obsidimen probably just go back to their Liferocks and try to sleep it out.
It's possible that their Liferocks are actually uranium of some other
valuable mineral, so we've mined or damaged nearly all their Liferocks.
Perhaps continuing tectonic activity destroyed any number of Liferocks. Or
perhaps we've simply poisoned too much of the Earth, and their Liferocks
have been similarly poisoned. But even if they are still around, the mana
level would almost certainly have to increase before the Liferocks became
"active" again and those obsidimen are slow beings anyway, they would
certainly take their time waking up from a 5000+ year slumber.
Windlings, I'm not sure. Perhaps their numbers dwindle down to mere
hundreds and they hide in forests and such, inspiring our modern faerie
legends. If so, the faeries of SR are probably inbred and essentially
feral windlings. I think it would be difficult to breed true with a gene
pool of maybe a few hundred over at least 5 thousand years. Not to mention
retaining their culture. They're the "inbred Jeds" of the bunch.
The t'skrang are problematic. They aren't human, so they wouldn't have
human babies like trolls would. They would have to breed true I should
think. So where the frag did they all go? Did they all have normal
lizards as babies? Did their culture collapse in a catastrophic way,
killing all or nearly all of them? Are they simply so dependent on magic
that they either became infertile or ill and died when the magic went away?
Or is it possible that there are t'skrang still around, a few of them,
still living in the underwater cities that a few of them live in?
Basically, if you really want to use those races, my explanation doesn't
totally close the door on you. But these races would be so incredibly rare
that they would be more likely to be a scientific prize than a
shadowrunner. Not to mention they would probably stick with their own kind.
Anyway, these are my thoughts on the matter.
Erik J.
"This job has taken my dignity, my self-esteem, my creativity and my
precious time on this earth. YOU'VE TAKEN ALL I HAVE! THERE'S NOTHING
LEFT TO GIVE!!!"
"The blood drive is next week; this year it's mandatory...and a three-pint
minimum."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 16:28:47 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Wraith <wraith@************.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
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-----Original Message-----
From: John Penta <johndevil@****.COM>
>At 10:33 AM 5/5/98 -0500, Sheldon Rose wrote:
>Ok. Everybody REALLY oughta put in some spoiler space, when discussing
>Sourcebooks and stuff. IMO, SR has stayed kinda on-course, but FASA is
>*definitely* getting IRRITATING with their new habit of putting a part of
>the story in sourcebooks, and the rest in novels. I stopped by
>Barnes&Noble the other day...the Barnes&Noble CHAIN, AFAIK, now doesn't
>carry SR Novels. Why? Because FASA now has it going to game stores. my
>local game store can't carry novels, simply due to distributor issues(as
>the guy at the game store, HobbyMasters, said. not sure)
Um, check with the manager of Barnes&Noble. I've been getting most of my
Shadowrun books there recently. However, I haven't been able to find ED
novels there. Most likely that store decided not to carry them for some
reason, or, SR is so popular in your area that they're always sold out by
the time you get there :)
Wraith
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 14:28:42 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: The Vagabond <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: SR Books [was Re: FASA's On/Off Course?]
Content-Type: text/plain
>At 10:33 AM 5/5/98 -0500, Sheldon Rose wrote:
>
>> I am asking the question of exactly what the subject says. Is FASA
>>drifting
>> on/off course in it's storyline. I am not implementing a Spoiler
>>Warning of
>> any kind, so just in case anyone may think this is a "sensitive
>>topic", you
>> have been warned. NO BOOK is sacred in this post.
>
>Ok. Everybody REALLY oughta put in some spoiler space, when discussing
>Sourcebooks and stuff. IMO, SR has stayed kinda on-course, but FASA is
>*definitely* getting IRRITATING with their new habit of putting a part
of
>the story in sourcebooks, and the rest in novels. I stopped by
>Barnes&Noble the other day...the Barnes&Noble CHAIN, AFAIK, now doesn't
>carry SR Novels. Why? Because FASA now has it going to game stores.
The Barnes & Nobles here(in Daytona) carries Shadowrun novels. You
may be thinking of the EarthDawn novels which are published by FASA
themselves(as opposed to ROC) and so can only be shipped to Gaming
stores(since FASA is a game-publisher, and not too popular with most
bookstores).
my
>local game store can't carry novels, simply due to distributor
issues(as
>the guy at the game store, HobbyMasters, said. not sure)....ARRRGH.
AGain, I know of plenty game stores(one here and several in Georgia)
that carry SR novels along with the product. I'm pretty sure if the
owner of the store doesn't have SR novels stocked, it's because he
doesn't want them stocked. I'm surprised he hasn't offered to order
them for you. *shrug*
>Another fact is also that a LOT of info is now contained in sourcebooks
>ya see once in a milennium.
I agree. I think comes with cutting down the IE/Cabal thing. The
bigger stuff will probably be in the "event of the year" books that are
coming around(like Underworld, Blood in the Boardroom, whatever's next
year...)
My parents generally only let me spend a MAX
>of $30 per 3 MONTHS on game stuff, which is beginning to make following
>SR futile. Arg.
Either cut down on modules, or get a job :)
Seriously, keeping an eye on this list, as well as netzines like TSS
and websites like FASA's should keep you "in the know" enough for you to
deem what you think is important and what is not needed. Of course, I'm
SR book junkie, so I have to get everything just on principle(except for
the Art of Shadowrun, all it took was me to browse through it at the
store to realize how crappy it was, and then laugh at the price they
wanted me to pay for it<g>).
-Vagabond
"Under wandering stars I've grown"
________________________________________________________
<nomad74@*******.com> <ICQ 4297972>
______________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:49:36 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
In-Reply-To: <19980506205930.22073.rocketmail@******.yahoomail.com>
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At 01:59 PM 5/6/98 -0700, you wrote:
>I do see what you are saying though about females not getting into
>roleplaying and the sort...Alot of girls just aren't into it. But on
>the other hand I've always been a tomboy with my head in the clouds,
>nose in a book, hating most of my classmates (almost completely
>opposite of my best friend Jackie). I've mentioned RPGing to some gals
>here in college and they were like what's that? So I guess I really
>can see what you mean.
Aside from your gender that describes most RPGers.
>But if it makes you feel any better I got my friend Cara (chick age
>almost 14) addicted to Earthdawn.
I don't know why, but this post suddenly made me *very* old. I'm not the
oldest person on the list, but my time, off and on, goes back to 92 or 93,
when *I* was in college. Back then, most of the listmembers were in
college, but I guess with the explosion of the Internet, we've acquired a
lot of high school age members.
But reading this, I suddenly felt like an old man...it's just so rare that
I deal with anyone under 21 anymore unless they are asking "Can I take your
order please?" that this "sudden" burt of youth on RN makes me feel
ancient...
Hey, maybe we should start an old man's club on RN, gotta be at least 25 or
older. You could put "RN Geriatric Brigade" or something in your .sig and
be allowed one post per thread going on about "back in my day, we didn't
have the Internet, we had to read RN with smoke signals..."
*sigh*
Time to get out the walker...
Erik J.
Who is 25 going on 76...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:50:17 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Saving Money
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980506163936.007bf380@*****.engin.umich.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Don't take this the wrong way John Penta, but if you got a job, you would
have more money to spend on Shadowrun...but maybe you aren't old enough to
work or something, so don't take it personal. *Damn that makes me feel
even older*
But with the sole exception of "Burning Bright" by Tom Dowd, all of the
novels are not required reading to understand the current world of SR. And
I say Burning Bright is the exception because it was that novel that
dropped the bomb about Bug City. It's the only novel that's done that
though, and since it's old news, it's no longer mandatory reading.
The Dragonheart Trilogy gives background information and is an interesting
read, but not much more. Well, okay, the little blurb at the fron of Blood
in the Boardroom about Nadja Daviar's "hunky" mystery friend isn't a
mystery to those of us that read the trilogy, but it's essentially trivia.
"Technobabble," which I thoroughly enjoyed (just how much can I suck up?
;-)) isn't necessary either. Yes, it gives background on why Renraku is
fighting for it's corporate life, yes it explains the current situation of
Miles Lanier (details removed to preserve spoiler integrity). But you
could very easily run your entire SR world without even knowing it existed.
It gives background information to the story, it isn't the entire story in
and of itself.
Save the $30/3 mo that you get for SR and use it to purchase solid
sourcebooks, not novels. Get Blood in the Boardroom and Cyberpirates.
Make sure you have $30 for when SR3 comes out in August/September. And if
you happen to find a fiver laying in the gutter, brush off the dirt and
pick up Technobabble.
Heck, most game shops now have used bins; I know my game store does, and it
has some great stuff in it (I'm gonna try to find some Mage: the Ascension
stuff in the used bin tonight, I'm hoping it'll make good SR Initiate group
background). I've seen hardcover editions of core game rules, like
Earthdawn and Star Wars, in used bins before. And if your game store
doesn't have used stuff, see if your town has a used book store. Back in
Tucson there was an endless amount of D$D/AD$D stuff to be found there.
And if you really have to get stingy with your cash, simply read everything
that has a spoiler on it; you'll get the interesting info about the product
without actually spending anything except for your e-mail access. I always
ignore spoilers, but that's just me.
Anyway, back to work.
Erik J.
What I wouldn't give to be a "carefree" student once again...this 9 to 5
stuff sucks rocks...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:15:54 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Phil Levis <pal@**.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Player Gender Balances (was: Sex and the Single Shadowrunner)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980506143404.266fa06a@****.fbiz.com>
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> At 01:59 PM 5/6/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>I do see what you are saying though about females not getting into
>roleplaying and the sort...Alot of girls just aren't into it. But on
>the other hand I've always been a tomboy with my head in the clouds,
>nose in a book, hating most of my classmates (almost completely
>opposite of my best friend Jackie). I've mentioned RPGing to some gals
>here in college and they were like what's that? So I guess I really
>can see what you mean.
Interestingly enough, the group of people that I tend to roleplay with
breaks pretty evenly along gender lines. Of the 30 or so people, about
forty percent are female, and sixty percent male. A year or so ago, and
there were more women than men.
Admittedly, a greater percentage of the people who run games are
male. There are currently about nine tabletop games, and one LARP running;
six of the tabletop games are run by men, and both head GMs of the LARP
are male.
Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:24:47 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Joshua Bell <joshbell@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
In-Reply-To: <199805061541.LAA22005@***1.fac.com>
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Brian Moore wrote:
<snip>
>And yes it is a good way to make money. But there are even more abusive
>ways to make money using Enchanting. A decent enchanter can make a Force
>3 Power Focus in a week or two, worth around 300knY, or 90knY at 30%
>"wholesale price". There really isn't a good way to handle PC enchanters
>given how easy it is to create IMHO significantly overpriced foci. IMC,
>my mage is the only PC enchanter, and he only makes foci for the members
>of his (PC) Initiatory group. He charges for the foci, but usually less
>that 25% retail cost and time spent bodyguarding.
I agree. there are several, make that dozens of ways to abuse the plain
rules of shadowrun. That is why there is a GM so that there is "suspense",
Continuity, and rules.
However, the example of making Orichalcum dosen't cost the mage/shaman any
good karma, just 44,000 nuyen and 1 month. Making Foci takes time,
materials, AND karma.
So even though you can make more money by creating foci, it is a personal
choice as to weather it is a better way.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:28:09 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: ED Races in SR; why it can't happen (long)
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> From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
> Who designed this virus and why?
<snip dragons and IE's>
I agree on the IE's, but there is a possibility that I think a lot of
people overlook. Coincidence. VITAS could have coincidentally targeted
those segments of the population that carried the windling\t'skrang
capability (IIRC, Obsidimen are asexual, and born from their Liferock).
The first plague, IMO, could have very likely been targeted at something
else entirely, but came to humans.
Another possibility is that VITAS is what happens when a certain virus (I
don't remember what VITAS stands for, so I won't speculate), and it
Awakened before either T'skrang or Windlings. In the Fourth World,
T'skrang and windlings had anti-bodies to this disease... it would get a
few, but most could resist it. In the proto-Sixth world, those antibodies
had long been bred out, being no longer needed. When the virus Awakened
into its more virulent form, it killed many of the people who would become
windlings and t'skrang (having been keyed to certain genetic tags that
would have made them what they would be, had they survived).
Believe it or not, not everything is a conspiracy. In the immortal words
of the bumper sticker: Shit Happens.
> Obsidimen seem to have some sort of relationship with their Liferock; I
> have no recollection of anything regarding obsidimen mating or of
> obisidimen babies. So they probably arise somehow direct from the
> Liferock. This, if I'm right, would automatically eliminate the
obsidimen
> from being goblinized humans.
Correct. They are born from the Liferock, and they go back to the
Liferock.
> Windlings seem to be normal mammals, but they don't seem to be able to
> breed with any of the other races. If windlings are the same as SR's
faeries, this
> supports the argument; they have a different genus (is that right? they
> aren't homo sapiens mutablis or something is what I mean).
I believe you mean "sprites" (can't say, don't own the book myself).
However, windlings I'm also not so sure about. IMO, they are Awakened
humans, likely a "subrace" of elves. They aren't fond of cities, which
opens up another avenue: They could be either offshoots of dryads or a
corporeal race of nature spirits (since they are dual-natured in ED).
> T'skrang? Sure, they're humanoid. But they are essentially lizards.
> Overgrown iguanas. They probably share more genetic code with the
lizards
> of the Gallapagos Islands than they share with humans (similar,
actually,
> to how we share a sizable portion of our genetic code with chimpanzees).
> T'skrang are evolved lizards just like humans are evolved apes.
Actually, the problem is whether or not they're warm-blooded (which the
ED text seems to indicate they are). I would place them as being closer
to birds, but actually being an Awakened form of dinosaur, if they are not
human (which I am finding increasingly unlikely). Given the possibility
of surviving dinosaurs in the Congo, look for them to be coming out of the
jungles of Africa... or maybe a lake in Scotland <g>
> So basically, I really don't think VITAS necessarily wiped out any of
the
> Earthdawn races. What did happen? Here's a speculation.
Actually, there is something else you haven't considered: Did VITAS only
affect humans? Its highly likely that the decimation of humans from VITAS
was only a side effect, originally having targeted another species.
> Obsidimen probably just go back to their Liferocks and try to sleep it
out.
> It's possible that their Liferocks are actually uranium of some other
> valuable mineral, so we've mined or damaged nearly all their Liferocks.
Uranium I find highly unlikely, as it would have adverse effects in the
real world to be near an obsidiman. However, it should be noted that
certain clans of obsidimen have veins of semi-precious stones that
actually run through their flesh. If they do wake up, it might be to find
that all of their nobles are dead.
> "This job has taken my dignity, my self-esteem, my creativity and my
> precious time on this earth. YOU'VE TAKEN ALL I HAVE! THERE'S NOTHING
> LEFT TO GIVE!!!"
>
> "The blood drive is next week; this year it's mandatory...and a
three-pint
> minimum."
This is a bloody fucking hilarious quote.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 15:27:37 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Saving Money
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>
> Heck, most game shops now have used bins; I know my game store does, and
it
> has some great stuff in it (I'm gonna try to find some Mage: the
Ascension
> stuff in the used bin tonight, I'm hoping it'll make good SR Initiate
group
> background). I've seen hardcover editions of core game rules, like
> Earthdawn and Star Wars, in used bins before. And if your game store
> doesn't have used stuff, see if your town has a used book store. Back in
> Tucson there was an endless amount of D$D/AD$D stuff to be found there.
>
I don't think this gets nearly enough emphasis. Here in Seattle the used
bookstores have just a _ton_ of stuff. I just landed a hard cover copy of
the SRII rules for 15 bucks a few months ago in pretty good shape. People
sell all sorts of nutty stuff to used book stores. Especially if:
a. They are broke
b. They are sick of playing the games
c. They stole it and are trying to make a buck
Another cheap way to get books is through online book stores. Especially
used. It'll prolly cost you a couple bucks in shipping and handling, but
you'll still manage to save money on some of the books. Some of them even
take checks rather than just credit cards.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 16:34:25 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: JD <germany@*****************.COM>
Subject: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks))
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>
>I don't know why, but this post suddenly made me *very* old. I'm not
the
>oldest person on the list, but my time, off and on, goes back to 92 or
93,
>when *I* was in college. Back then, most of the listmembers were in
>college, but I guess with the explosion of the Internet, we've acquired
a
>lot of high school age members.
>
>But reading this, I suddenly felt like an old man...it's just so rare
that
>I deal with anyone under 21 anymore unless they are asking "Can I take
your
>order please?" that this "sudden" burt of youth on RN makes me feel
ancient...
>
>Hey, maybe we should start an old man's club on RN, gotta be at least
25 or
>older. You could put "RN Geriatric Brigade" or something in your .sig
and
>be allowed one post per thread going on about "back in my day, we
didn't
>have the Internet, we had to read RN with smoke signals..."
>
>*sigh*
>
>Time to get out the walker...
>
>Erik J.
>
>Who is 25 going on 76...
I know how you feel. It makes me want to start a thread about... back
in SR1, the rules were.. or back before SR, we had to write our own RPG
using T$R rules as the base.
There are RPG's that I played that no longer exist. (James Bond, Top
Secret) and many games that I haven't played in two (maybe three)
iterations (Traveller -> MegaTraveller ->?).
I feel so old...
Maybe we should start our own rest home.
Jon Doud
germany@*****************.com
(Who played back when there were TWO german states.)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:42:47 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Joshua Bell <joshbell@**********.COM>
Subject: Cyberware: Where do you put the bateries?
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Hello all Josh here,
In my musings for today I was contemplating cyberware. I wondered how all
of these neat little devices got the power they need to run. Does wired
reflexes have a battery pack? If so why isn't it listed so I as a GM can
rule that it shorted out at a most inoportune time <display evil_grin>.?.
I assume (rightly I hope) that certain cyberware requires a LOT of power
such as Encephalons, C^2 decks, Cyberlimbs (gosh yes!), etc.
What are your thoughs on how they are powered, Ahh an Ephipany! the
"Nuclear Power Plant" implant Essence cost -1,000,000. <grin>...
No really, would a datajack like act as an AC/DC cable?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 14:55:01 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Cyberware: Where do you put the bateries?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980506184247.006a1bf4@***.mindspring.com>
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At 18:42 5/6/98 -0400, Joshua Bell insinuated:
>In my musings for today I was contemplating cyberware. I wondered how all
>of these neat little devices got the power they need to run. Does wired
>reflexes have a battery pack? If so why isn't it listed so I as a GM can
>rule that it shorted out at a most inoportune time <display evil_grin>.?.
>I assume (rightly I hope) that certain cyberware requires a LOT of power
>such as Encephalons, C^2 decks, Cyberlimbs (gosh yes!), etc.
I presume that low-powered cyberware (anything that doesn't need to perform
mechanical action or transmit large amounts of energy, like datajacks,
encephalons, C^2 decks, headware memory, etc.) runs on something
resembling a very tiny fuel cell that turns your blood glucose into
electricity. Remember that encephalons may do a lot of computing, but
that's not necessarily going to require much *energy*.
High-powered cyberware, like cyberlimbs, eye lights and lasers, commlinks, and
so on require charging in some way. Since we have a precedent in Rigger 2
that you can have arbitrarily high energy density in a battery as long as
you're willing to pay for it (since increasing the number of power factors
available on a vehicle does not increase the load or CF requirements),
I've been figuring that cyberlimbs just have very good batteries that
need recharging once a week or so, and that is in fact why they cost
so much. :-) Beta or delta grade cyberlimbs might even hook up to your
circulatory system and get the energy they need for operation the same
way your regular limbs do.
--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "Ham is good... Glowing *tattooed* ham is *bad*!" - the Tick %%
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 15:56:41 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberware: Where do you put the bateries?
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----------
> From: Joshua Bell <joshbell@**********.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Cyberware: Where do you put the bateries?
> Date: Wednesday, May 06, 1998 3:42 PM
>
> Hello all Josh here,
>
> In my musings for today I was contemplating cyberware. I wondered how
all
> of these neat little devices got the power they need to run. Does wired
> reflexes have a battery pack? If so why isn't it listed so I as a GM can
> rule that it shorted out at a most inoportune time <display evil_grin>.?.
>
Shhh! No! Bad! You're making a mockery of the system!!
I especially don't want to think of it since I'll be running a heavily
cybered character in our next campaign. =)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:15:39 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses Publishing
Subject: Re: Cyberware: Where do you put the bateries?
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Joshua Bell wrote:
> I assume (rightly I hope) that certain cyberware requires a LOT of power
> such as Encephalons, C^2 decks, Cyberlimbs (gosh yes!), etc.
One of the "evil GM options" used in second-hand cyberware (SSC), if I
recall correctly.
> What are your thoughs on how they are powered, Ahh an Ephipany! the
> "Nuclear Power Plant" implant Essence cost -1,000,000. <grin>...
Anything requiring a datajack (chipjack/synthlink/etc) can rely on
outside power, the same way your telephone actually carries a small
charge (millivolt range).
Larger augments could use flywheels or chemical power; anything from a
diesel-powered cyberarm to a nearly biological muscle augmentation.
Bioelectric power might be something; or even using muscle power (each
step you take, a small charge is generated; a portion of which is
diverted to a power cell) or even gravity (stand up, sit down, and
presto! your gear is recharged). The body's probably the cheapest and
most available source of power, after all.
- Matt
------------------------------------
Ask me tonight why love is strange
For I am drunk and full of reasons....
SRCard list.member.newbie
Teen Poets FAQ: http://pw1.netcom.com/~mbreton/poetry/poetfaq.htm
SRTCG Website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/2189/ccgtop.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 15:58:31 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberware: Where do you put the bateries?
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> so much. :-) Beta or delta grade cyberlimbs might even hook up to your
> circulatory system and get the energy they need for operation the same
> way your regular limbs do.
>
Or better yet, it may use your body's motion to generate electricity in
someone, kinda like how stillsuits in Dune used it to supply what little
mechanical energy the suit needed.
Hmmm... =T
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:00:38 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberware: Where do you put the bateries?
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Joshua Bell writes:
>In my musings for today I was contemplating cyberware. I wondered how all
>of these neat little devices got the power they need to run. Does wired
>reflexes have a battery pack? If so why isn't it listed so I as a GM can
>rule that it shorted out at a most inoportune time <display evil_grin>.?.
>
>I assume (rightly I hope) that certain cyberware requires a LOT of power
>such as Encephalons, C^2 decks, Cyberlimbs (gosh yes!), etc.
Purely electronic implants (eyes, ears, encephalons, decks, radio
_receivers_, etc) could probably run off the electricity your body already
generates. IMHO, the ability to tap into that would be the key breakthrough
that would allow cyber, after figuring a way to interface with the brain.
Mechanical implants (such as cyberarms/legs), or implants that require power
(such as a headphone or radio transmitter), would either have to have a
battery power source, or piezoelectricity has made huge advances. Actually,
I take that back. Mechanical implants could probably use the chemical energy
your muscles already use to power them. Maybe that's how they do it: a
little engine takes in glucose and blood, combusts the glucose, and uses the
resulting energy to generate electricity.
>No really, would a datajack like act as an AC/DC cable?
It could, but you don't need a datajack, so that's not the answer.
--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:17:42 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <199805062047.PAA21003@*****.interkan.net>
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At 15:40 06/05/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> But Shadowrun would still be
>> Shadowrun if it didn't have magic, it would just be different.
>
> Adam, I respect your work on this list greatly, but that has got
to be
>the most moronic phrase in the entire English Language, and likely quite a
>few others. X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
>different.
Great. Lasting impact!
This goes back to the statement that you snipped: What *is* Shadowrun? And
more specifically, what makes it Shadowrun? IMO it's a little bit of
everything -- the magic, the attitude, the cyberware, the matrix,
everything that could possibly be in the sixth world. True, if you take
the Awakening out, no meta's, no paranormals, it will be drastically
different.
Todays world would still be todays world if China went Democratic, Russia
went back Communist, France and England merged, and Canda took over the
USA. It would just be different. Way different! But it would still be
late 20th century Earth.
While I could have worded my statement alot better, I stand by it -- Magic
isn't all that makes Shadowrun Shadowrun.
-Adam J
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:23:12 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
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> From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
> While I could have worded my statement alot better, I stand by it --
Magic
> isn't all that makes Shadowrun Shadowrun.
True, but its a major ingredient in what makes our Shadowrun our
Shadowrun. You take it out, and it tastes like a cake where someone
forgot the baking soda.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 19:33:38 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: SThanatos <sthanatos@*********.COM>
Subject: Cyberware Power Sources (Was Re: Cyberware: Where do you put the
bateries?)
In-Reply-To: <00e301bd7942$c9fc4ec0$5a5211ac@********.mincom.oz.au>
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Joshua Bell hath writ:
>In my musings for today I was contemplating cyberware. I wondered how all
>of these neat little devices got the power they need to run. Does wired
>reflexes have a battery pack? If so why isn't it listed so I as a GM can
>rule that it shorted out at a most inoportune time <display evil_grin>.?.
Actually, if current technology has been refined to a high degree in SR,
then there could be two probable possibilities derived from the electricity
produced by the human body.Standardly, neurons produce a charge of 700
milliwatts in a non-active state. If all the standing eletrical energy
produced by the neurons of the body could be concentrated, it could run a
small lightbulb. Perhaps in the future they have figured out how to amplify
this.
Another possibility would be the eletrical gradient across the cell
membranes of all living cells. They are currently developing microscopic
mechanisms which utilize this electric potential at the AMBRI institute in
Austrailia. If this mechanism could be maginifed, it could also be a source
of plausable and natural eletrical current.
My Two Cents
Ryan Yokley
--Kill the Bugs
<home.earthlink.net/~ryokley>;
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 16:41:27 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <dhinkley@****host.efn.org>
From: David Hinkley <dhinkley@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <199805052248.SAA13888@******.mindspring.com>
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On 5 May 98 at 18:46, MC23 wrote:
> Once upon a time, losthalo wrote;
[SNIP]
> It's simple, FASA painted themselves in a corner with Shadowrun
> in
> that everything happens in your home city. Why would the general
> player of Shadowrun buy a book on Japan when all his character's
> career is going to be in Seattle? Until FASA changes the direction
> of how Shadowrun adventures work (basically to involve traveling)
> then don't expect to see anything on other cities unless you look
> for them on the net.
I am not so sure that it is a corner in either a game world sense or
in a game publishing sense.
The key to survival in the shadows is knowledge of the local turf.
Oh, there are a few indiviuals who can move from area to area, but
the rest use their local knowledge to survive. They know where to get
things, information, where to hide, who to talk. One can have a long
and sucessful career in one city. You can also have a real short life
on the lam in a strange town.
From a sales point of view the game can be played and played well
with just the rulebook. Once they find out what a good game it is
then they start buying books. The key is to get them to buy the first
one. And it easier to sell a single book rather then a $50 plus stack
of books. AD&D periodically had that problem (sold them not played
them)
The corner FASA did paint them selves into is the restriction on the
legal movement of key equipment needed by a major segment of players.
That is guns and illegal cyber and bio wear. This limits the movement
of some types of charactors. Now with smuggling there may be ways
around some of them. Then it becomes much less risky to change
countries.
David Hinkley
dhinkley@***.org
====================================================
Those who are too intelligent to engage in politics
are punished by being governed by those who are not
--Plato
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 16:35:51 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
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----------
> From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
> Date: Wednesday, May 06, 1998 4:23 PM
>
> ----------
> > From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
>
> > While I could have worded my statement alot better, I stand by it --
> Magic
> > isn't all that makes Shadowrun Shadowrun.
>
> True, but its a major ingredient in what makes our Shadowrun our
> Shadowrun. You take it out, and it tastes like a cake where someone
> forgot the baking soda.
I feel this deserves a Cthulhu analogy. =)
FASA taking magic out of Shadowrun (and with it all the metaraces, given
the SR cosmology) would be like Chaosium taking everything supernatural out
of Call of Cthulhu. Just *fwink*, one day they're all gone. No one knows
why. Sure, you could still play the game using just deranged mass murders,
obscure-yet-pointless cults, spooky-but-empty houses, but what would really
be the point? Sure, it's the same world, but without that horror beyond
human comprehension, you might as well be playing... Well, I don't even
know what game it would be. It wouldn't be CoC. Similarly, SR wouldn't be
SR without magic.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:41:50 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Geoff Skellams <geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU>
Subject: Old Farts Club (was RE: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
On Shadowrun Discussion, Erik Jameson[SMTP:erikj@****.COM] wrote:
> Hey, maybe we should start an old man's club on RN, gotta be at least
25 or
> older. You could put "RN Geriatric Brigade" or something in your .sig
and
> be allowed one post per thread going on about "back in my day, we
didn't
> have the Internet, we had to read RN with smoke signals..."
>
Well, I'll be in that (although I can't qualify for the back in
the early days of RN, because I only joined again a couple of months
ago). I turn 28 on the 25th of this month and I'm a father to boot.
> Time to get out the walker...
>
Hey, you're only as old as you think you are. I'm not ready to
go senile quite yet.
cheers
Geoff.
--
Geoff Skellams R&D - Tower Software
Email Address: geoff.skellams@*********.com.au
Homepage: http://www.towersoft.com.au/staff/geoff/
ICQ Number: 2815165
"That rates about a 9.5 on my weird-shit-o-meter"
- Will Smith in "Men in Black"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:38:47 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
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Nexx writes:
>> From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
>
>> While I could have worded my statement alot better, I stand by it --
>Magic
>> isn't all that makes Shadowrun Shadowrun.
>
>True, but its a major ingredient in what makes our Shadowrun our
>Shadowrun. You take it out, and it tastes like a cake where someone
>forgot the baking soda.
<clueless look>
You put baking soda in cake??
</clueless look>
Okay, just to make this contribution to the debate slightly more intelligent
than that (I'll be the first to admit that I "make" my cakes by going to the
local bakery), magic is _not_ the be-all and end-all of Shadowrun, anymore
than decking or rigging is. I've run a few campaigns in Shadowrun with
little or no magic, or decking, or rigging.
I must admit that I'd be sad to see magic taken out of SR. It is, IMHO, SR's
distinguishing characteristic that it does have the fantasy element.
--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 02:02:57 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Sprawl Sites (was Re: Feeling old)
In-Reply-To: <199805061956.VAA16474@*****.xs4all.nl>
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>> >we'll have to write a net.book with encounters like that...
>>
>> Good idea. We should classify them by locations. The first group would be
>> the security rating (AAA to Z) and the second the place where it takes
>> place : Street, Bar, etc.
>> I'll think about some ideas and will report it.
>
>And we need to keep it simple -- Sprawl Sites has half-adventures, not
>encounters. Hmm... is this an idea for the next PW book?
It's not that simple. If it's only encounters, it can turn into random
monsters... If this can arise, I think it could be interesting to give
simple plots which can become bigger or keep small.
A good exemple could be like this :
* The runners see a corp guy bleeding in a dark alley. He has an attache
case with him.
** Short plot : The poor guy only got shot while he was coming home. He
barely escaped the gangers but will die here if the runners don't do
anything. If they save him, he can reward them with 500 Y (that's all he has).
** Long plot : The man is a corporate employee who tried to escape his
corp. To make his life easier, he took some stuff with him. After having
arranged an extraction with an fixer. This one tried to bouble cross him.
He barely escaped but was deadly hit. An equip of runners is on his trail
as well as a corp strike/recovery team. The stuff is hot but not sufficient
enough for the corp to send expert runners after him (something like 30,000
Y worth).
- Cobra.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 20:09:53 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: ED Races in SR; why it can't happen (long)
In-Reply-To: <199805062234.RAA28251@*****.interkan.net>
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At 05:28 PM 5/6/98 -0500, you wrote:
> Believe it or not, not everything is a conspiracy. In the
immortal words
>of the bumper sticker: Shit Happens.
Oh, I know. I was just speculating. IF this is true, then what are the
implications sort of thing. A mental exercise, especially since I don't
personally believe that VITAS did wipe out the ED races.
> I believe you mean "sprites" (can't say, don't own the book myself).
>However, windlings I'm also not so sure about. IMO, they are Awakened
>humans, likely a "subrace" of elves. They aren't fond of cities, which
>opens up another avenue: They could be either offshoots of dryads or a
>corporeal race of nature spirits (since they are dual-natured in ED).
Sprites, faeries, brownies, leprechauns, to me, they are all essentially
the same.
I'd have to think they aren't an elf off-shoot because they are so much
smaller than elves and have those wings. I'd really be more inclined to
think they are totally separate from humanity.
> Actually, the problem is whether or not they're warm-blooded
(which the
>ED text seems to indicate they are). I would place them as being closer
>to birds, but actually being an Awakened form of dinosaur, if they are not
>human (which I am finding increasingly unlikely). Given the possibility
>of surviving dinosaurs in the Congo, look for them to be coming out of the
> jungles of Africa... or maybe a lake in Scotland <g>
Now this is probably true. T'skrang as awakened humanoid dinosaurs (which,
according to some paleontologists may actually have been warm blooded; I
seem to recall that part of their arguement is that in order to keep up a
constant body temperature a 30 ton dinosaur would have to eat 30 hours in a
24 hour day. A bit impossible).
And *IF* they were to appear, I would expect them either from the darkest
interior of Congo Africa. Or perhaps in an underwater city off the coast
of India (that's from the Theran sourcebook).
> Actually, there is something else you haven't considered: Did
VITAS only
>affect humans? Its highly likely that the decimation of humans from VITAS
>was only a side effect, originally having targeted another species.
Now that's thinking laterally. But entirely possible. Most diseases don't
cross species for some reason, but some do and it is possible that VITAS is
one of them. That could explain the chupacabras (and I'm now convinced
they are chimpanzee ghouls or the equivalent). But what species? Nothing
about a mass extinction of any specific species is mentioned in SR. And
Awakened critters just don't spring out of nothingness, they are all
"mutant" version of modern animals.
>> "This job has taken my dignity, my self-esteem, my creativity and my
>> precious time on this earth. YOU'VE TAKEN ALL I HAVE! THERE'S NOTHING
>> LEFT TO GIVE!!!"
>>
>> "The blood drive is next week; this year it's mandatory...and a
>three-pint
>> minimum."
> This is a bloody fucking hilarious quote.
Don't thank me, thank Scott Adams and Dilbert. That man is a messiah;
Wally is my hero and Catbert is my idol. There is supposedly going to be a
Dilbert cartoon on ABC prime time next fall; if they put it on the same
night as Dharma&Greg and The Drew Carey Show, that's one night I *won't* be
leaving the house.
Good points though.
Erik J.
"What was that popping sound?"
"A paradigm shifting without a clutch."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 20:10:27 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the Single
Shadowrunner(thanks))
In-Reply-To: <00f401bd793f$22ddbe60$ab29640a@********.corelus.com>
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At 04:34 PM 5/6/98 -0600, you wrote:
>I know how you feel. It makes me want to start a thread about... back
>in SR1, the rules were.. or back before SR, we had to write our own RPG
>using T$R rules as the base.
Ah, SR1 and autosuccesses and variable staging. Hey, I bet the kiddies
haven't ever heard of 3L1 or 5D4 damage codes, eh? Now THAT complicated
combat.
>There are RPG's that I played that no longer exist. (James Bond, Top
>Secret) and many games that I haven't played in two (maybe three)
>iterations (Traveller -> MegaTraveller ->?).
Top Secret, played that. TORG, which bit. Hell, I can remember the days
when the only collectible cards were baseball cards. Now THOSE were the
days...
>Maybe we should start our own rest home.
Hey, it could be like Gurth's Stairs, but only us old folks are allowed in.
We could play shuffle board and cribbage and gum our meals!
>(Who played back when there were TWO german states.)
You know what the sad thing is? There are plenty of people on this list
who simply have no recollection of living like that, who only know about
the Cold War from books and school. Some of us geezers actually grew up
with the spectre of the Red Menance and Global Thermonuclear War.
Ah, enough of this OT stuff. Somebody, set up the Old Folks Home so us
gezzers have some place to rest our weary bones and soak our teeth.
Erik J.
"Ladies & Gentleman, the newest member of the band, the one and only Spice
Boy, GRUMPY SPICE!!!" <and the crowd goes wild!!!>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 01:02:24 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Harleys and Pumpguns
In-Reply-To: <199805061038.MAA15455@*****.xs4all.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In article <199805061038.MAA15455@*****.xs4all.nl>, Gurth
<gurth@******.NL> waffled & burbled about Harleys and Pumpguns
(storing stuff under bike seats)
>My comment was inspired mainly by the Yamaha 50 cc bike I owned about 5
>years ago, which had a small amount of space under the seat. Itwould have
>been large enough to put a keyboard (cyberdeck) only if you'd first drove
>a steamroller across the keyboard,
Heh. I don't think that would be a healthy action for the cyberdeck in
all honesty. It may influence it's ability to function. :)
>but since the RBB states there is quite
>some underseat storage space
I've noticed that, and in all honesty I'm somewhat puzzled where this
space comes from. :) The graphics they've used for the bikes doesn't
imply there's up to 2cf under the seat. :)
>I pictured my old bike with more room under
>the seat, and decided in that case it should be big enough for a
>cyberdeck. YMMV, naturally.
Hehe, yep, mileage definitely varies, it's better out of town. <g>
>Then there are those scooters ("It looks like you're sitting on a toilet,"
>someone I know once said about them :) that often have the room to store a
>helmet under the seat and/or in a storage compartment in the front shield.
Again, in the case of most scooters, the fuel tank is under the seat -
go figure. But yes, I have seen Honda scooters with enough room for an
eggshell (open face) helmet.
--
Avenger
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 20:43:15 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Phil Levis <pal@**.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: ED Races in SR; why it can't happen (long)
In-Reply-To: <199805062234.RAA28251@*****.interkan.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Wed, 6 May 1998, Nexx wrote:
> ----------
> > From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
>
> > Who designed this virus and why?
> <snip dragons and IE's>
> I agree on the IE's, but there is a possibility that I think a lot of
> people overlook. Coincidence. VITAS could have coincidentally targeted
> those segments of the population that carried the windling\t'skrang
> capability (IIRC, Obsidimen are asexual, and born from their Liferock).
> The first plague, IMO, could have very likely been targeted at something
> else entirely, but came to humans.
There is, of course, another possibility behind the lack of T'skrang,
Obisidimen, and depending which side you take, Windlings. For the sake of
completeness, I'll assume that Faerie are not Windlings, and Windlings
have yet to appear.
One simple explanation is magic levels. Although magic levels are high,
they are not high enough for T'skrang, Obsidimen or Windlings to appear.
In the Denizens of Barsaive book, it is mentioned that with magic levels
dropping, T'skrang have a lower egg fertility rate. Each of these three
races are not necessarily directly related to humans; for this reason, it
is possible that their resurgence requires a higher magic level. For
example, I don't believe that the Obsidimen will necessarily appear at the
same time as dwarves and elves. Consider the length of mana cycles; it's
quite possible that T'skrang will appear in two or three hundred years;
with such a time scale, FASA can safely say that T'skrang will not appear
in Shadowrun.
I could certainly buy the possibility of IEs tailoring a virus to decimate
the T'ksrang. However, I severely doubt that it would be done to harm
Obsidimen and Windlings. Additionally, I doubt that an IE could do it
without dragons and other IEs noticing; the repercussions of some dragons
learning this would be immense. Additionally, I doubt that the virus could
be one hundred percent effective. Some possible T'skrang would survive.
If VITAS was indeed a something which was created by some to prevent the
appearance of T'skrang, I would postulate it was done by a single
individual. Although there is racial enmity between some elves and
T'skrang, I don't think it is great enough that a large group of IEs would
take this course of action. This may have changed, however, since the time
which Earthdawn takes place.
Perhaps the T'skrang and Obsidimen all died before the Fourth World ended?
It's certainly possible. We have yet to see those such as The Laughing Man
or Usmondo comment on their fate.
Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 20:52:49 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <SHADOWRN%98050603091036@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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At 02:16 AM 5/6/98 -0500, you wrote:
If politics is the main focus, a bit of magic and the intrigue
>added by such things as immortal elves, always helps.
Frankly, having enormously powerful (in relation to the PCs) manipulators
behind the scenes tends to strip away the illusion of free will, and the
idea that the PCs are important to the campaign. It's the SR equivalent of
high-level types tagging along with low-level adventurers in AD&D. It can
be overdone _so_ easily. Let the PCs live their lives, involved in
intrigues on their level, etc. Let them meet a degree of magic that is 1)
appropriate to their power level, and 2) that is consistent with the world
(i.e., 1% magically active, and varying types of magicians and adepts
divide it up from there, it's rare with a capital R).
The IEs are just too much of a good thing, if used at all it must be
-sparingly-, the same as, say, dragons, or vampires... There is enormous
potential for intrigue in SR even if you are only talking about your
street-level group of runners, their fixers and contacts, and the local
crime scene. Yakuza, Mafia, Seoulpa, the Star, corps muddying their hands
hiring the various 'mobs', gangs... there is plenty of room for intrigue
there without ever bringing in magic, metahumans, or Immortal Elves. Throw
in an old enemy or three, or a questionable romance, etc. ...
More intrigue than you can shake a stick at.
I can imagine Harlequin making -an- appearance in a campaign with your
average group of street runners. Beyond that, their lives 1) should get
very difficult, as Harley is involved in shite waaaay out of their league
["What do you know about this elf? Don't tell me you know jack, you've
worked with him at least twice..."], 2) they should have their heads
examined if they willingly get involved in this stuff: "And never, ever
cut a deal with a dragon."
losthalo@********.comwhileyouarelisteningyourwillingattentionismakingyoumore
andmoreintothepersonyouwanttobecome.
"Some things are true whether you believe them or not."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 21:34:57 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: (Semi-OT) Harleys and Pumpguns
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In a message dated 5/5/98 8:29:42 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
sabredanz@****.COM writes:
> Sure he wasn't on his way to The Pensic War?
>
> Sabredanz
>
sorry this is a couple of days old...what war???
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 21:57:51 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 5/5/98 4:05:56 PM US Eastern Standard Time, gurth@******.NL
writes:
> And that's what each of these years tends to bring us. The election year
> saw Dunkelzahn get killed. The crime year started with O'Malley getting
> his head shot off. The corp year has a megacorp going under (I haven't got
> the books yet, so I don't know the details). As I was typing this just
> now, I suddenly realized somebody big gets taken out of the game world in
> each year...
>
GOOD!!! Then maybe the "Year of the Comet" will see Lofwyr finally getting
his...
-K (who finally figured out the "Arrow of Red Dragon Slaying" joke...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:04:50 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Sprawl Sites (was Re: Feeling old)
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Once upon a time, Cobra wrote;
>It's not that simple. If it's only encounters, it can turn into random
>monsters... If this can arise, I think it could be interesting to give
>simple plots which can become bigger or keep small.
>A good exemple could be like this :
>* The runners see a corp guy bleeding in a dark alley. He has an attache
>case with him.
>** Short plot : The poor guy only got shot while he was coming home. He
>barely escaped the gangers but will die here if the runners don't do
>anything. If they save him, he can reward them with 500 Y (that's all he
>has).
>** Long plot : The man is a corporate employee who tried to escape his
>corp. To make his life easier, he took some stuff with him. After having
>arranged an extraction with an fixer. This one tried to bouble cross him.
>He barely escaped but was deadly hit. An equip of runners is on his trail
>as well as a corp strike/recovery team. The stuff is hot but not sufficient
>enough for the corp to send expert runners after him (something like 30,000
>Y worth).
I think we've found a good example of how some of these things should be
set up. A window dressing option should be presented as well. Sometimes
is nice to have background that has no plot attatched. Gurth, are you
ready to be editor to a net book with a general list contibution. Hell, I
might even add something.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
I swear to tell
the Truth, the partial Truth, or something like the Truth.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:06:21 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, Alexia Silverstein wrote;
>But if it makes you feel any better I got my friend Cara (chick age
>almost 14) addicted to Earthdawn.
I have to ask, what is chick age almost 14 in human years?
B>]#
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:09:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, Erik Jameson wrote;
>>Maybe we should start our own rest home.
>
>Hey, it could be like Gurth's Stairs, but only us old folks are allowed in.
> We could play shuffle board and cribbage and gum our meals!
Screw that "old man," I'll stay out here until the Ragnorok Of
Flamewars finally takes me, never wavering to the end!
B>]#
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed,
briefed, debriefed, or numbered "
-No. 6, The Prisoner
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:13:54 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, Erik Jameson wrote;
>But reading this, I suddenly felt like an old man...it's just so rare that
>I deal with anyone under 21 anymore unless they are asking "Can I take your
>order please?" that this "sudden" burt of youth on RN makes me feel
>ancient...
I've been a club boi for half my life now so I still deal with young
uns'. Now realizing they are all too young to date makes me feel really
ancient.
Is this becoming an Immortal Listmembers thread now?
Damn IL's are behind everything!
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
I swear to tell
the Truth, the partial Truth, or something like the Truth.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 04:21:19 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980506090038.21974fd6@**********.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> If politics is the main focus, a bit of magic and the intrigue
>>added by such things as immortal elves, always helps.
>
>Frankly, having enormously powerful (in relation to the PCs) manipulators
>behind the scenes tends to strip away the illusion of free will, and the
>idea that the PCs are important to the campaign. It's the SR equivalent of
>high-level types tagging along with low-level adventurers in AD&D. It can
>be overdone _so_ easily. Let the PCs live their lives, involved in
>intrigues on their level, etc. Let them meet a degree of magic that is 1)
>appropriate to their power level, and 2) that is consistent with the world
>(i.e., 1% magically active, and varying types of magicians and adepts
>divide it up from there, it's rare with a capital R).
1) I don't consider like this. I give an opposition (magic or not) based on
the guys who send it, whatever the power of PCs. If they mess up with one
of the big 8, then they must prepare themselves to suffer big assault. My
players are quite used to it. So, if they deal with a minor group and have
to suffer a big reply, they can think about something strange.
2) I do agree with it but you also must consider that makes them important
people and so are more likely to deal with runners. You must also consider
that this proportion is bigger in some areas (I'm not sure but I remember
Tir having 3% of them). Also, mages from other countries tend to go to UCAS
because they hope they can gain some power/money/whatever there and they're
most likely to be right...
The last point is that there must something like 1 runner per 10,000 or
100,000 but runners tend to encounter a lot of them ! :)
>The IEs are just too much of a good thing, if used at all it must be
>-sparingly-, the same as, say, dragons, or vampires... There is enormous
>potential for intrigue in SR even if you are only talking about your
>street-level group of runners, their fixers and contacts, and the local
>crime scene. Yakuza, Mafia, Seoulpa, the Star, corps muddying their hands
>hiring the various 'mobs', gangs... there is plenty of room for intrigue
>there without ever bringing in magic, metahumans, or Immortal Elves. Throw
>in an old enemy or three, or a questionable romance, etc. ...
>More intrigue than you can shake a stick at.
>
>I can imagine Harlequin making -an- appearance in a campaign with your
>average group of street runners. Beyond that, their lives 1) should get
>very difficult, as Harley is involved in shite waaaay out of their league
>["What do you know about this elf? Don't tell me you know jack, you've
>worked with him at least twice..."], 2) they should have their heads
>examined if they willingly get involved in this stuff: "And never, ever
>cut a deal with a dragon."
I totally agree. However, I massively use dragons and IE... But they almost
never see them. It's kind of GM pleasure. I imagine big plots from some of
them and the way they fight against each other with the runners in the
middle. They think that runs are anodine but they are linked in some way to
the other ones... And yes, mystery is definitely something that makes
things interesting to players. That's the main reason why my players never
read SR sourcebooks. After some years, the PCs (the favorites because I
GMed 3 campaigns) have become quite powerful. Now, they have to face them
and to play with them. Actually, that makes things a bit different...
That's why I started an other campaign. But, from time to time
(approximately once a month), they play these characters and they are a lot
more comfortable with their situation because they're powerful but do not
have sufficient knowledge to really be able to handle that...
- Cobra.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 04:21:28 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Cyberware Power Sources (Was Re: Cyberware: Where do you put
the bateries?)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980506193338.0069baec@****.geocities.com>
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>>In my musings for today I was contemplating cyberware. I wondered how all
>>of these neat little devices got the power they need to run. Does wired
>>reflexes have a battery pack? If so why isn't it listed so I as a GM can
>>rule that it shorted out at a most inoportune time <display evil_grin>.?.
>
>Actually, if current technology has been refined to a high degree in SR,
>then there could be two probable possibilities derived from the electricity
>produced by the human body.Standardly, neurons produce a charge of 700
>milliwatts in a non-active state. If all the standing eletrical energy
>produced by the neurons of the body could be concentrated, it could run a
>small lightbulb. Perhaps in the future they have figured out how to amplify
>this.
>Another possibility would be the eletrical gradient across the cell
>membranes of all living cells. They are currently developing microscopic
>mechanisms which utilize this electric potential at the AMBRI institute in
>Austrailia. If this mechanism could be maginifed, it could also be a source
>of plausable and natural eletrical current.
Anyway, that makes a big problem with SR technology. If you can *easily*
produce energy to use most cyberware without having to refuel every day or
week, you should use that same energy production for vehicles... That means
that vehicles should have a lot more potential than it is stated in SR
(they're not very different from now...).
I don't think we could find a way to compromise those two facts...
Cyberware is here for... Ambiance... And the average tech is here to give
more *realism*.
That makes me think about an evolution of SR world... Magic drains energies
from astral quite easily and with great potential. If you magic and
technological devices to harvest those energies, that can give you great
possibilities.
- Cobra.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 21:21:05 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Cyberware: Where do you put the batteries?
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----------
> From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
> Purely electronic implants (eyes, ears, encephalons, decks, radio
> _receivers_, etc) could probably run off the electricity your body
already
> generates. IMHO, the ability to tap into that would be the key
breakthrough
> that would allow cyber, after figuring a way to interface with the
brain.
Actually, I see to recall Hatchetman saying that his cyber-eyes had
battery packs. Likely, they're long-lived supplements the natural power
source.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 21:29:04 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the
SingleShadowrunner(thanks))
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----------
> From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
> Ah, SR1 and autosuccesses and variable staging. Hey, I bet the kiddies
> haven't ever heard of 3L1 or 5D4 damage codes, eh? Now THAT complicated
> combat.
Or when physads were gods because they're powers were automatic
successes... dear gods, I loved those guys.
> You know what the sad thing is? There are plenty of people on this list
> who simply have no recollection of living like that, who only know about
> the Cold War from books and school. Some of us geezers actually grew up
> with the spectre of the Red Menance and Global Thermonuclear War.
Course, some of us young folks managed to remember things from times when
the threat of Global Thermonuclear War was something more than a plot on a
movie.
***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
"Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn lasts
forever"
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
"Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo the
better part of humor."
aka Ellegon, Working at making Cannon canon
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are crunchy
and good with ketchup."
--------[Geek Code Block]-----------
GED/GSS d- s++:+ a-- C++ W w+ PS+.5 PE- Y+ t+
5+ X+ R*+.5 !tv+ b+.5 DI+ D- G e h !r-- !y+
-------[End Geek Code Block]-------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:35:48 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
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In a message dated 5/5/98 4:46:10 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
grota@*********.COM writes:
> Sounds like a good deal. Feel like hiring a dual-natured, heavily wired
> samurai for that? Jett is looking for work and needs a weapon focus...
> :)
>
> --Jett
>
I think at this point, "Binder" would have to say..."uh...dear...you have a
problem...heavily wired and weapon foci are not often a good combination" :P
-K (who is getting used to his new ergonomic keyboard...)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:41:17 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Gaming GenCon (Re: Tournament GMing)
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In a message dated 5/5/98 5:52:33 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
grota@*********.COM writes:
> Honestly, though, I'm a bit uncertain about playing at Gencon. (And Yes,
> I'm going to do my damndest to get there.) While I've been told that I'm
> a pretty decent RPer, I've never played outside of IRC. It's hard to
> imagine playing without private message windows and text files all nice
> and neat on your desktop. Likewise, I've only GMed on-line. Hmm. This
> should be interesting...
>
Well Jett, there is in theory the "Open Doors Game" I suggested a while ago
into running (NOT AN OFFICIAL GAME!!). The idea was anyone who had a
previously existing character could join us (assuming the group doesn't become
a "MOB" to large to comprehend the fun of course :).
That and I had no idea how many people would be interested. Lady J expressed
an interest once, but then she had to back down from GenCon in general
(Australian Travel arrangements can do that ya know ;).
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:49:00 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: The Art of Fencing (Re: Fencing vs. Street Index)
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In a message dated 5/5/98 5:59:37 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
joshbell@**********.COM writes:
> My Question is therefore:
>
> Where does the extra money go?
>
Please note I snipped several comparisons and ideas put forth by Josh...some
of which were well stated I might add.
However, "Fencing" is also about arranging secure shipments, paying bribes to
any and/or all involved forces, which can exist from the Street Gang that
might have the particular territory claimed to the Yakuza or Mafia that have
Lord and Say over a particular collection of buildings or old warehouses for
usage. Fencing the loot is about arranging safe connections on not only the
buying end of things, but on the selling end of things as well, and everyone
wants a cut of the action.
Fencing can also require specific actions of an unusual nature. For example,
going along with the Talismongers thread here...Binder once decided to set
aside a very sizable portion of time and went about making a LARGE series of
batches of Orichalcum. Please note, with Background Count and/or Focused
Concentration, it is possible to have more than one batch going at the same
time...bring into this Centering, and things can get REALLY impressive.
Anyway, when he was done, he went about making matrix contacts with a nearly
equal size number of people. He had to make travel arrangements and shipping
arrangements, all of which cost money, including various customs (read as
Bribes in some cases) and other similar "international exchange agreements"
(You try and convince the Scribe to pay that much...try it, I dare ya!!!).
All of this cost money, as did his need to retain various levels of lifestyles
and fronts that were going as well. Add to that the background of such a
character, and you get additional bills like Contact Maintenance, Child Care,
maintaining/retaining various fake/legal SINS, etcetera.......
YES, it is a big size of money, but it is very well placed IMO...
-K (who has never lied to anyone about the details of understanding what it
means to be "AN ENCHANTER" before)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 23:34:54 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
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In a message dated 5/5/98 9:25:33 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
runefo@***.UIO.NO writes:
> > Technically Three, I forgot to count myself here...
> >
> > -K
> Oh, you vote OFF? Damn. I have to vote ON, then. ;)
>
I knew it!!! You would do that just to be, what was it you called me again???
"arrogant, smug <insert ancestral somethingorother>??? :P Yeah, well the
same right back at you too....(removes white glove, slaps once across both
-BUTT-cheeks for a challenge)....
Anyway, the Immortals are a bit much, but not beyond reproach, but then our
gaming style here is admittedly different from many. But some of things that
are happening are
Okay, I'll say it. I don't think that "the Comet" or any other force is going
to remove the magic from SR (all that money paid to Steve K. and then they
don't use it??? I don't think so :P). But I guess I am just rapidly
reaching the point where I just keep thinking that too many changes are going
to be made.
in short...I do NOT want to play Cyberpunk or variation thereon...I want to
play Shadowrun....I guess finding the right balance between Magic and
Technology remains the problem...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 23:36:08 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MgkellyMP5 <MgkellyMP5@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the Single
Shadowrunner(t
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In a message dated 98-05-06 20:16:15 EDT, you write:
<< Ah, SR1 and autosuccesses and variable staging. Hey, I bet the kiddies
haven't ever heard of 3L1 or 5D4 damage codes, eh? Now THAT complicated
combat.
>>
and it was a pain in the ass too! '-2 to Power Level/ +1 Wound Level and it
makes the damage code of a Browning Max-Power with Firepower ammo....'
personally, i was very relieved when they started using 2 as the Staging
number for everything in SR2.
Mgkelly
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 23:39:22 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Radiation and Magic
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In a message dated 5/5/98 11:09:07 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
wraith@************.COM writes:
> (slight spoiler to Burning Bright)
>
> Not to mention that in Burning Bright, the ward sealed in the radiation
from
> the explosion....
>
> Wraith
>
Not all of it, it didn't. Hell, in our games the Ward still exists and
occasionally someone has to go in to that Hellfire Pit and augment some parts
of the external energies (oh yeah, LOADS OF FUN!!! --- NOT!!!!!!).
Real fun now is that the Ward is breaking down because of the FAB-3
strains...so I can only imagine what is going to happen when that mess occurs.
And in our games, the FAB-3 is mutating, getting more and more comfortably
with the toxic zone that surrounds the ward. So it is only a matter of
time...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 23:41:47 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MgkellyMP5 <MgkellyMP5@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 98-05-06 22:16:02 EDT, you write:
<< I've been a club boi for half my life now so I still deal with young
uns'. Now realizing they are all too young to date makes me feel really
ancient.
>>
it's worse thinking certain...things about them, and then finding out their
age. you suddenly realize that you are going to Hell for the debauched
thoughts running through your mind.
>>>Is this becoming an Immortal Listmembers thread now?<<<
at least it isn't Immortal Elves again. bastards....
sorry. still bitter about that Munchkin GM i had once throwing the group up
against an All-Powerful IE. with nothing to show for the effort.
Bastard Munchie-GM....
i'll stop now. sorry to Grid-Sec for running OT.
Mgkelly
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 23:52:33 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Vehicle Economy (was RE: What is a CF?)
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Unknown Sender said:
-=-=-=-=-
That's nothing... I wanted a tiny little rotor drone for really simple
snooping about. Those suckers can only go about 50 meters on electric
power.
I'm still trying to figure out where a man-sized or smaller rotor drone
fits 120 liters of fuel.
-=-=-=-=-
Well, on the first, we found a few things to consider. Gridlink is the
funniest thing we've ever had added to an "arachnid", as was Suncell. We also
like to point out that "Suncell" if it's like the current solar panels of the
modern calculator can produce "some" current from standard (artificial)
lighting. We just gave the Suncell a very small production level say 1-3 PF
an hour...not a lot, but if coupled with planning, yeppers, can be loads fun.
As for the fuel, yeah, the numbers don't match quite right, i know...we argued
out compressed fuel tanks (which I once made rules for...Wordman, if you read
this, do you still have those as well? They were in the Nagee back when Chris
did them)....
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 23:55:09 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
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In a message dated 5/6/98 10:42:35 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
mooreb@****.FAC.COM writes:
> And yes it is a good way to make money. But there are even more abusive
> ways to make money using Enchanting. A decent enchanter can make a Force
> 3 Power Focus in a week or two, worth around 300knY, or 90knY at 30%
> "wholesale price". There really isn't a good way to handle PC enchanters
> given how easy it is to create IMHO significantly overpriced foci. IMC,
> my mage is the only PC enchanter, and he only makes foci for the members
> of his (PC) Initiatory group. He charges for the foci, but usually less
> that 25% retail cost and time spent bodyguarding.
>
Abusive??? You want Abusive, I'll show you a good one and maybe give everyone
a clue to something. An "Enchanting Test" can be used to lower the karma cost
of many foci. Binder used to in his "younger days" make an object then charge
them the "full karmic cost" of the object, make the seperate test, and keep
the difference for his lonely little ol' self...combine that with money...oh
yeah, remember that really well...Rob Nesius probably does too if he thinks
about it (a butterfly knife come to mind Rob??)
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 21:06:41 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
MIME-Version: 1.0
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----------
> From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Talismongering
> Date: Wednesday, May 06, 1998 8:55 PM
>
>
> Abusive??? You want Abusive, I'll show you a good one and maybe give
everyone
> a clue to something. An "Enchanting Test" can be used to lower the karma
cost
> of many foci. Binder used to in his "younger days" make an object then
charge
> them the "full karmic cost" of the object, make the seperate test, and
keep
> the difference for his lonely little ol' self...combine that with
money...oh
> yeah, remember that really well...Rob Nesius probably does too if he
thinks
> about it (a butterfly knife come to mind Rob??)
>
He was able to take other people's karma? Was he a free spirit, or were
you a bit loose with the rules? ;)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 00:12:19 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberware: Where do you put the bateries?
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In a message dated 5/6/98 5:43:51 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
joshbell@**********.COM writes:
> I assume (rightly I hope) that certain cyberware requires a LOT of power
> such as Encephalons, C^2 decks, Cyberlimbs (gosh yes!), etc.
>
> What are your thoughs on how they are powered, Ahh an Ephipany! the
> "Nuclear Power Plant" implant Essence cost -1,000,000. <grin>...
>
> No really, would a datajack like act as an AC/DC cable?
>
Actually, I would like to point out that the cyberware may or may not have a
power plant, depend on the level of "superconductors" and "bio-electric
cross-
mechanics" have reached in your games. As for the datajack acting like an
AC/DC cable...consider this...plug in your phone jack....
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 00:49:55 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wordman <wordman@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I have a mixed vote, I guess. I like what FASA is doing, but I think they
are doing it to quickly. They did the same thing to Battletech. I was
perfectly happy before the Fourth Succession War, then they spring that on
us, and then, God help us, the frigging Clans show up and screwed up
everything. Same problems with power curve, too.
Point is, most groups meet once a week, for maybe four to six hours. In
that time, you can fit _maybe_ a couple of days of game time in, if you
really hurry. So plots unfold slowly. By the time you get to a point where
you can incorporate something, some new thing comes out, and you sort of
feel like you have to hurry to catch it. I know you don't have to, but you
still feel that way.
As far as the "year of" style goes, I think the idea is not just to say "oh
this will be fun", but to open a new _kind_ of shadowrunning. Cyberpirates,
for example, details a sea-bourne campaign. Fields of Fire introduced
mercenary campaigns. Bug City, and so on. Width the Underworld Sourcebook,
you get a good feel for running and organized crime campaign. BitB was
slightly different, in that it offered a sort of different mind set for
running. BitB forces players to think a bit more like fixers ("this is
happening, how can I take best advantage of it") than most other runs. It
also provides a plausible way to involve amatures in the running biz (more
low-level corpers might use runners) and dealing with amatures tends to
make good stories, as mistakes are much more interesting. Seems like FASA
is trying to do more of this kind of product, exposing the breadth of the
stories that can be told in the world of Shadowrun.
I like this, but while breadth is good, I think depth is more _useful_ to
me as a GM. I would love it if they slowed down the pace of the big plot
twisting books to a two year turn-around instead of one, and came out with
more depth-based products (at least as deep as the Seattle Sourcebook) per
year.
I also like their track system method for adventures. It gives me the kind
of info I look for in an adventure book and not much else. The ones I've
seen also let me set the power curve, which is useful.
One thing I've yet to see if I like is there handling of magic. SRs magic
system borrowed a lot from "real" magic, and had a very good feel to it.
From what I've seen the only person who currently grooves into this feel is
Steve, who is not a FASA employee. This concerns me a bit, as it may mean
more new magic rules that originate from a "this would be cool" feeling
instead of "a logical extension of the magic system would be" kind of
feeling. We'll see on this one.
I'm satified with current handling of I.E.s. (BTW, did Tom Dowd ever reveal
why Elves and Dragons don't seem to like each other much before he left SR?
Did that secret "die" with him?)
As far as "where do I want to go today?": The path I'd like for SR is
definately not the one FASA will take. I really like more street level
plots, and FASA tends towards the Epic. I'd love to see an adventure book
that is geared mostly towards a gang campaign. The book would give extreme
detail on maybe ten blocks, the gang's turf. Even if you didn't run a gang
campaign, you could have runners enter the turf for one reason or another.
That's the type of stuff a really like -- exactlt the type of stuff FASA
does not make (with possible exception of Seattle Sourcebook).
Wordman
"Stressed from the battle, but not fatigued.
My hat's made of metal to avoid debris."
-- N.W.H. "Buried and Bald"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 00:49:46 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wordman <wordman@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 14:33 05/05/98 +0000, you wrote:
>> Does anyone remember the
>> little slogan you see about Shadowrun in the game shop posters?
>> "Where man meets machine in an age of magic". The way things are
>> going, I wouldn't be surprised if Haley's Comet takes all of the
>> magic with it when it leaves.
Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA> wrote:
>HAHAHA!
>ROFL! ROFL! ROFL!
>I'm going to have to save this post.
>(Sorry if it seems like I'm laughing at you here. I'll shut up.)
I can vouch for Adam that he's not laughing at the original poster. Adam, I
know why you're laughing, and it's enough to drive a man to drink.
Wordman
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 00:49:30 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wordman <wordman@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Farts Club
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Geoff Skellams <geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU> wrote:
> On Shadowrun Discussion, Erik Jameson[SMTP:erikj@****.COM] wrote:
>> Hey, maybe we should start an old man's club on RN, gotta be at
>> least 25 or older. You could put "RN Geriatric Brigade" or something
I prefer the phrase "Elder Statesmen".
> Well, I'll be in that (although I can't qualify for the back in
> the early days of RN, because I only joined again a couple of months
> ago). I turn 28 on the 25th of this month and I'm a father to boot.
Damn! You're even older than me! (By a month or so, anyway).
Wordman
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 00:49:39 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wordman <wordman@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA> wrote:
> While I could have worded my statement alot better, I stand by it -- Magic
> isn't all that makes Shadowrun Shadowrun.
Easily abusable rules are what make Shadowrun Shadowrun.
Wordman
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 00:56:02 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <199805062047.PAA21003@*****.interkan.net>
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|> From: Nexx
|> Sent: May 6, 1998 4:41 PM
|> Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
|> Adam, I respect your work on this list greatly, but that
|> has got to be
|> the most moronic phrase in the entire English Language, and
|> likely quite a
|> few others. X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
|> different.
Phew, I was hesitant in answering Adam's post due to my recent history,
but was hoping someone else had caught this. If someone had given this
phrase to my teacher when I was taking Critical Thinking, they would have
flunked. Basically he is saying P= !P which is not possible.
I would believe that Adam was trying to say that Shadowrun without magic
would be different, but still close enough not to matter.
It is my opinion that this is wrong, very wrong. While it may not be
apparent all the time, magic in Shadowrun has greatly influenced things. The
Tir Tan Gire(sp) for example would not exist, and that is a big difference.
The NANs would not have been able to reclaim any territory. And, the day to
day things that are not necessarily noticed would be very different.
So I'd say that to state that Shadowrun would be basically the same
without the magic is being incorrect. But that is my opinion.
Just because you have scenarios that don't make much use of magic is
irrelevant, because the magic is there in the background and does influence
things.
Katt Freyson
ICQ UIN 3337155
Montreal, Canada
http://www.dsuper.net/~katt
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:06:36 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
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Katt Freyson writes:
> Phew, I was hesitant in answering Adam's post due to my recent history,
>but was hoping someone else had caught this. If someone had given this
>phrase to my teacher when I was taking Critical Thinking, they would have
>flunked. Basically he is saying P= !P which is not possible.
I've seen comparision statements in programming that use that logic,
though... :)
(Hmm... did your teacher in Critical Thinking admit the possibility of
paradox? What about unary logic (where only one "choice" or condition is
possible, and so is also the negation of that choice or condition)?)
Fundamental rule though: Don't pick on a person's grammar. :)
> It is my opinion that this is wrong, very wrong. While it may not be
>apparent all the time, magic in Shadowrun has greatly influenced things.
The
>Tir Tan Gire(sp) for example would not exist, and that is a big difference.
>The NANs would not have been able to reclaim any territory. And, the day to
>day things that are not necessarily noticed would be very different.
I dunno. Tir Tangire could still exist without magic (it broke away from the
NAN peacefully, and its squabbles with Cal Free State were solved with
standard military force as well as magic). The NAN could have come about,
given a disastorous population plummet (like, um, that caused by VITAS), and
a strong, populist, and well-equipped resistance movement. Magic just made
it easier. I admit the world picture wouldn't be exactly the same, but the
politcal world as portrayed by SR is not _dependent_ on magic to have come
about.
But IMHO, it wouldn't be SR without the phrase "Never deal with a dragon".
:)
--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:10:21 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
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Wordman writes:
>I'm satified with current handling of I.E.s. (BTW, did Tom Dowd ever reveal
>why Elves and Dragons don't seem to like each other much before he left SR?
>Did that secret "die" with him?)
Well, didn't the elves try to exterminate the dragons in Earthdawn?
--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 01:16:47 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberware: Where do you put the bateries?
In-Reply-To: <31d9aa7.355134a4@***.com>
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At 12:12 AM 5/7/98 EDT, you wrote: As for the datajack acting like an
>AC/DC cable...consider this...plug in your phone jack....
Well, datajacks should be optical anyhow. :) Electricity, we don't need to
stinkin' electricity!
losthalo@********.comwhileyouarelisteningyourwillingattentionismakingyoumore
andmoreintothepersonyouwanttobecome.
"Some things are true whether you believe in them or not."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:37:15 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: The Vagabond <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
Content-Type: text/plain
>While I could have worded my statement alot better, I stand by it --
Magic
>isn't all that makes Shadowrun Shadowrun.
>
>-Adam J
I disagree.
first off, What *is* Shadowrun? It's a RPG set in a cyberpunkish
future where magic has returned. Shadowrun defined. What is salt?
Sodium Chloride. Salt defined.
If you took magic away it would not be Shadowrun. It may be an RPG
set in a cyberpunkish future. But that describes at least two other
games. Just like if you took the sodium from salt, it would be
chlorine, not "salt without sodium".
My point being Shadowrun is a sum of many elements, not the least of
which being magic. Take ANY of those elements away and you don't have
Shadowrun.
I see your point about 20th cen earth, Adam, and I understand. But
that's a physical thing- our modern timeline. Of course if that changed
it would still be what it is(however bastardized). Shadowrun is a
fictional, abstract concept. Which is MUCH easier to change or alter.
-Vagabond
"Under wandering stars I've grown"
________________________________________________________
<nomad74@*******.com> <ICQ 4297972>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 01:33:34 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <l03110701b176e40374a2@[100.100.100.10]>
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At 12:49 AM 5/7/98 -0400, you wrote:
(me too)
>I have a mixed vote, I guess. I like what FASA is doing, but I think they
>are doing it to quickly. They did the same thing to Battletech. I was
>perfectly happy before the Fourth Succession War, then they spring that on
>us, and then, God help us, the frigging Clans show up and screwed up
>everything. Same problems with power curve, too.
Not only yes, but hell yes. Not only do I like Btech better without all
the fancier weapons and such of the clans and 3050 Inner Sphere tech, but I
think some of the ideas introduced into SR did the same thing. Both lost
some of the atmosphere they'd worked to build, and also undercut certain
ideas built into the game that I enjoyed...
For instance: Essence was once both a limiting factor on power, -and- a
roleplaying hook for those who pursued power. If you want speed, you have
to get The Wire. You get The Wire, you lose a bit of... you. Every trip
under the knife (and maybe what you have to do to get those trips under the
knife, too) changes you, and not just in the way the cyber makes you a
better killer. Two things undercut this, namely bioware and physical
adepts. Now, you could have faster speed than an unenhanced character
without essence loss (and the personality changes associated with it).
That, for me, is where SR began to lose its grit and become fantasy in a
technologically-advanced setting (yeah, I realize this is a-way back in 1st
ed :).
This is a cyberpunk setting, or was: everything is supposed to come with a
price.
This was even true of magicians, though in a different way. They had their
life pretty much taken up by being a magician. You either dedicated your
life to it, were defined by being a magician, or you were not. If you were
not, ou might do some magic, but you'd never reach anything like your real
potential. Obsession was not really optional.
>One thing I've yet to see if I like is there handling of magic. SRs magic
>system borrowed a lot from "real" magic, and had a very good feel to it.
>>From what I've seen the only person who currently grooves into this feel is
>Steve, who is not a FASA employee. This concerns me a bit, as it may mean
>more new magic rules that originate from a "this would be cool" feeling
>instead of "a logical extension of the magic system would be" kind of
>feeling. We'll see on this one.
I agree that some aspects of the magic system were introduced without
concern for where they might lead, or their effect on the atmosphere of the
game..
>As far as "where do I want to go today?": The path I'd like for SR is
>definately not the one FASA will take. I really like more street level
>plots, and FASA tends towards the Epic.
Exactly. SR started as gritty, street-level, with a little glamour for the
shadowrunners (with Sally depicted as much like the freewheeling AD&D
adventurer who runs from one big treasure score to the next). I mean, they
met in fraggin' clubs to make business deals... and that worked somehow.
"I hear you got a shadowrun cookin' Sally. Haven't heard how hot the fire
is, though."
(/me too)
losthalo@********.comwhileyouarelisteningyourwillingattentionismakingyoumore
andmoreintothepersonyouwanttobecome.
"Some things are true whether you believe in them or not."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 01:37:37 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
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Unknown Senders said (after I snipped the stuff about reduced cost of bonding
objects and karmic theft)
-=-=-=-
He was able to take other people's karma? Was he a free spirit, or were
you a bit loose with the rules? ;)
-=-=-=-
Nope, it was just looked at from the point that "bonding an object normally
cost 'x' amount of karma, of which the magicians in the party would agree".
Of course, none of them had Enchanting or even bothered reading the rules for
such. The Enchanting Test to reduce the karma cost for the bonding was merely
a way of making it cheaper to bond the things.
Binder (Reflex back then) would bond (bind?) a foci to a person appropriately
and charge them what they believed was the cost of such. He claimed the karma
they "gave him" for the bonding, and kept the difference between what was
really needed after the test and the amount they gave him.
Yes, it was evil, but it really wasn't "Theft" in the spiritual/essence drain
sort of approach. It was merely taking the karmic candy from the overgrown
lackwits they had become and were so willing to pay....
As I said, I was -really- evil back then...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 01:41:20 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
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In a message dated 5/7/98 12:14:08 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
robert.watkins@******.COM writes:
> >I'm satified with current handling of I.E.s. (BTW, did Tom Dowd ever reveal
> >why Elves and Dragons don't seem to like each other much before he left
SR?
> >Did that secret "die" with him?)
>
>
> Well, didn't the elves try to exterminate the dragons in Earthdawn?
>
Yes, and one could say that the Sphinx had a lot to do with the outcome of
that discussion....hmmm....could be...
Just exactly who did I mention that too the other day????
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 23:27:16 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Nesius <nesius@******.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <000401bd7974$6f7a5fa0$aa29cdcd@****>
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My 2 cents:
FASA - On/Off Course? Holding my breath until SR3. Then I'll decide wether
or not to give them a thumbs up or the finger.
Magic in SR: I liked the combination of magic and tech. But what really
made the magic click was the very intuitive and slick mechanics for it. No,
they are not perfect, but they were darn good. I'm re-reading the Grim II
now, and I'm still impressed.
Pace of story being pushed by FASA: Agree with Wordman - too fast. Two
year cycle would be better.
I also think that the dragon assissination seemed "forced."
A more "street" oriented approach would be a lot of fun. Unfortuantely, while
FASA's source books go along way towards adding clarity to their world, and
pushing broad story arcs along, they don't do a lot to emphasize, encourage,
and strengthen real roleplaying. It seems like it's all more toys,
background, and rules.
-Rob
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 23:32:59 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Nesius <nesius@******.COM>
Subject: How much down time?
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Questions for the list:
How much downtime do your characters usually have between runs?
How many runs per game year do your groups fit in?
What is the average grade of initiacy that your magically actives attain?
How about average skill rating. ie: Lots of sixes and higher? Sixes and
lower?
Just trying to get a feel for where people are at. Probably all over
the map, but I'd appreciate your input on this.
Thanks,
-Rob
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 02:58:43 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Munchkinism at it's finest
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> Re: Munchkinism at it's finest (Jessica Grota , Tue 0:58)
> For the smaller pieces of stuff (ie, under .75) Delta just isn't worth
> it. Cybereyes, etc are just fine with normal grade, as long as you
> aren't trying to pack every piece of ware in the book into a body.
> err, is Jett one of the acceptable ones, or one of the ones who's packed
> too damn full? I'm a bit groggy from painkillers ATM and I can't quite
> focus... :)
>
>
> The Jettster
I'd say just the opposite- Generally, somebody going in for Customware
is already jammed fulla cyber, most of which they like. Like, say,
Wired 3, a smartlink, some jacks, a sense or two... But I guess, then,
you ARE tryingto pack in "all the ware in the book". :)
Replacing the Wires with a custom grade is out of the question, cost
wise. If it isn't, I don't want to hear about it (I'm jealous)....
Getting a really high grade smartlink, eyes, and jacks is CHEESE,
comparitively, and leaves room for some more custsom small, fun,
AFFORDABLE stuff. Then, if you DO ever save up the cash, you replace
the wires. Even better if its easier / cheaper surgery becasue of the
reduced essence cost of new implant. But big custom items are just far
to expensive (even more so with surgery and recovery), normally.
As a basic rule, you can simply look at an items essence cost per yen
cost (E/Y). The higher this is, the better to get it upgraded, if you
can. The smartlink, at .0002, tops the list, matched by the level 1
datjack, followed closely by dermal 1, other data and chipjacks,
platicbones, radios, and muscles. Custum grade Wired reflexes and
cyberlimbs cost a FORTUNE in cash compared to the essence saved, coming
in at .00001 for limbs and wired 3. So, for the cost, a custom
smartlink saves 5 TIMES the essence of custom wired 3. Wired 2 isn't
much better.
Of course, when you go all up to delta, theres no way to "shop smart"
like this, and you just get what you need / can afford.
-Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 02:59:02 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Cyber and Body Index
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>> Re: Cyber and Body Index
(was Re: Munchkinism at it's finest) (Gurth , Tue 5:30)
> Hardly anything is available
> except what's in SRII, the Grimoire, and one or two other books subject to
> GM approval. All the gear will only be for sale once the dates in the book
> come by in the campaign -- no SSC until late 2050/early 2051, bioware
> won't be available until 2052, and so on.
>
The knowledge in the grimoire, as a "Manual of Practical Thamaturgy",
should not be openly availble, either, IMO. It can lead to people
playing them exclusively, and is one reason we've allowed characters to
start with items from Shadowtech in our 2054-5 game. YMMV.
> Now all we need to do is convince the other half of the group that this
> is the best thing to do to solve the mess we're in...
>
The above does not invalidate that this may indeed be good for your
game, although I'd cut the grimoire stuff for now, and wait for SR3, to
keep "adaptation" to a minimum (or decide to chuck SR3 after seeing
it). Straight BBB IS pretty fun...
-Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 02:59:17 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Non-running sources of income
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> Re: Non-running sources of income (was Re: Talismongering) (Nexx , Tue 11:28)
>
> > <SNIP>
> > > This reminds me of something I was wondering.
> > >
> > > How many people have their characters do work on the side?
>
> I had one character who ran a "free" clinic. While his income from
> running paid his bills, people in the neighborhood would sometimes give
> him stuff for his magical and mundane healing methods.
Mongoose, and eventually almost half the Chicago team, did volunteer
work at a similar clinic in Chicago's Noose. Of course, with no legal
status, the work was risky- OTOH, it was the easiest way to get good
medical care in the noose, and the contacts came in quite handy. It
also was a great plot hook to get us involved with some awful event or
another- we were essentially part time freelance, unliscened, FRT
paramedics in the noose working for a community (or otherwise?) funded
clinic that got its start in the mess ensuing the Sears tower blowup,
the night of rage, and the fact that most hospitals were unwilling to
admit those with no proven SIN.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 03:00:49 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Fencing vs. Street Index
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>
> Fencing vs. Street Index (Joshua Bell , Tue 17:58)
> what about this:
>
> "Optional" Runners get to multiply an item by its STREET INDEX, then they
> start at 30% of that and negotiate!
>
> (Please understand that this is mearly a sugestion and I don't know its
> effect on a real game because I just thought it up)
We've done that sometimes (when the GM feels genrous, and its an item
that can be sold quickly on the streets). It can be pretty profitable
(and fair) for thoings like stollen weapon foci, whic otherwise get
stored away until used by some team mage, pissing of the Samuria who
damn well KNOWS thier street price STARTS at 300K.
In fact, if you have a line on certain items LEGALLY, fencing them
ILLEGALLY can be a very profitable (but likely very illegal) source of
income. For example, the street index on cyanide is 5, and anybody with
a pest control permit and a little chemisty skill could churn the stuff
out. Ah, the beuty of fake ID's.
-Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 03:01:18 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Sourcebooks (was Re: FASA's On/Off Course?)
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> Re: FASA's On/Off Course? ("Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman" , Tue
18:16)
> > Why we won't see many area sourcebooks.
> >
> > It's simple, FASA painted themselves in a corner with Shadowrun in
> > that everything happens in your home city.
Not IMO. Our characters travel a LOT, and "home city" tends to loose
meaning pretty fast. We've liked / used most of the sourcebooks, but a
"genric travle guide", would be better for us. NAGRL fills some gaps,
but leaves many. Just because all the FASA stuf says "Seattle", doesn't
mean people play Seattle- similar features can be adapted for plots set
n any city. And having EVERYTHING happen in your town starts to stretch
thin pretty fast.
-Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 03:01:47 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
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> Re: Talismongering (Jessica Grota , Tue 20:36)
> Oh, yeah. Jett is perfect for bodyguard work. She can take on astral OR
> mundane bad guys without missing a beat. Of course, she's got that
> ever-present "Ground your HellBlast Here" sign on her back...but hey,
> that's a fair trade.
No problem- Hellblasts can't be grounded, since astral mages can't cast
DM's. :)
Seriously, though, how / why is Jett dual natured? That is more
bizarre than the deltaware, IMO. MUCH more bizarre.
-Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 04:00:07 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
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This is silly.
Of course SR is ON course.
Maybe not the course some of us would like, but hey, it's FASA's game.
FASA is a corp.
They're going to go with what the majority of the paying public wants.
FASA has gotten a TON of flack over the IE's Horrors and other assorted
high-power nasties
They responded by toning them down.
Please note - IE's and Horrors have NOT been removed from the canon SR
world!
If you want to use these in your game, feel free, you are still well within
the canon of SR.
As for the Bugs, c'mon, we can't even control the mosquito problem now.
Do you think they're ALL gone in the Sixth world, now that they're
intelligent and magical?!?
Bug City was an excellent setting, but it's been out for several years.
FASA has always kept their game worlds moving along, starting with
Battletech.
As RL time progresses, so does game time.
IMO you couldn't leave a problem like Bug City alone for too long and keep
it realistic.
The UCAS govt. could only keep the quarantine for so long.
As for magic. I don't feel that current supplements have reduced it one
bit.
Altered the feel of things, yes. The "Wild Surge" in CFS, and other
elements have altered the balance of magic vs. tech, but magic is still an
integral part of the SR universe.
Lest you think that I'm an unabashed FASA-ass-kisser (Like Bull ;-)) there
are a few elements of the game that I am NOT happy with.
The "Year of" stuff has the potential to become overdone.
However to be fair, it does seem to be working for FASA.
It certainly allows them to tailor their source materials for the year
around a central theme, and as long as it keeps working, I'll keep buying.
I HATE the "Adventure Track" system, even though I can't think of a better
way to allow the maximum number of people to get the maximum use out of a
single game supplement.
On a similar note, I'm tired of adventures that do NOT focus on runners.
The Missions book was largely useless for me, as I don't have anyone
playing a cop, a fed, etc.
The adventures were solid, but of limited use.
P&P was a serious letdown.
I LOVE paranormal critters! Ever since FAS came out with the Monster Manual
.. er I mean PAoNA ;-) I have used a TON of critters in my games.
I was really looking forward to a NEW critters book, and hoped that P&P
would deliver.
It didn't giving us a couple stupid bugs, and bats, and completely glossing
over the idea of a rigger controlled critter! (A concept I have run whole
campaigns on!!!)
So IMO while FASA (of course) has room for improvement, the game itself is
solid, and moving forward.
Where exactly it's going remains to be seen.
But that's half the fun anyway! ;-)
Tinner
.sig nuked by HD crash.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 20:04:16 +1200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
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Quoth Wafflemeisters (2002 07-05-98):
>> Re: Talismongering (Jessica Grota , Tue 20:36)
>
>
>> Oh, yeah. Jett is perfect for bodyguard work. She can take on astral
OR
>> mundane bad guys without missing a beat. Of course, she's got that
>> ever-present "Ground your HellBlast Here" sign on her back...but hey,
>> that's a fair trade.
>
> No problem- Hellblasts can't be grounded, since astral mages
can't cast
>DM's. :)
> Seriously, though, how / why is Jett dual natured? That is
more
>bizarre than the deltaware, IMO. MUCH more bizarre
It was under the 'Nagual Totem' sheet Jessica posted a few days ago. As
part of her totem dis/advantages, Jett is *always* assensing. Helpful
in some situations, but also a big 'Nuke Me - PLEASE!'
Danyel Woods
9604801@********.ac.nz
'Are you deliberately trying to drive me insane?'
'The universe is already mad. Anything else would be
redundant.'
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:41:17 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the Single
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980506171213.0957f78c@****.fbiz.com> from "Erik
Jameson" at May 6, 98 08:10:27 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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And verily, did Erik Jameson hastily scribble thusly...
|
|At 04:34 PM 5/6/98 -0600, you wrote:
|
|>I know how you feel. It makes me want to start a thread about... back
|>in SR1, the rules were.. or back before SR, we had to write our own RPG
|>using T$R rules as the base.
|
|Ah, SR1 and autosuccesses and variable staging. Hey, I bet the kiddies
|haven't ever heard of 3L1 or 5D4 damage codes, eh? Now THAT complicated
|combat.
Ay, but it were a lot more fun back then.
When someone shot a vindicator minigun at you in the old days, you KNEW
about it. And the DRAIN codes! None of this f/2S bunkum.
We had REAL drain codes back then, like L1, S3, and I challenge ANYONE not
to suffer some drain after the dreaded D4....
*sigh*
It's just not the same anymore.
|>Maybe we should start our own rest home.
|
|Hey, it could be like Gurth's Stairs, but only us old folks are allowed in.
| We could play shuffle board and cribbage and gum our meals!
Sign me up.
|>(Who played back when there were TWO german states.)
|
|You know what the sad thing is? There are plenty of people on this list
|who simply have no recollection of living like that, who only know about
|the Cold War from books and school. Some of us geezers actually grew up
|with the spectre of the Red Menance and Global Thermonuclear War.
|
|Ah, enough of this OT stuff. Somebody, set up the Old Folks Home so us
|gezzers have some place to rest our weary bones and soak our teeth.
Yup. Although my teeth aren't QUITE that bad yet...
:)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:46:24 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the Single
In-Reply-To: <6b809db.35512c2a@***.com> from "MgkellyMP5" at May 6,
98 11:36:08 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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And verily, did MgkellyMP5 hastily scribble thusly...
|
|In a message dated 98-05-06 20:16:15 EDT, you write:
|
|<< Ah, SR1 and autosuccesses and variable staging. Hey, I bet the kiddies
| haven't ever heard of 3L1 or 5D4 damage codes, eh? Now THAT complicated
| combat.
| >>
|
|and it was a pain in the ass too! '-2 to Power Level/ +1 Wound Level and it
|makes the damage code of a Browning Max-Power with Firepower ammo....'
|personally, i was very relieved when they started using 2 as the Staging
|number for everything in SR2.
The poor man's deluded. He's been brainwashed by the SR2 new order.
Get 'im lads!
Personally, when they took away the staging, they took away one hell of a
lot of the variety that went with the game.
*BANG*
You need 12 successes to totally clear that damage....
(Fortunately, you had 6 auto successes in your armour, but that's besides
the point...)
*ahhhh* Those were the days....
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 05:11:49 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkinism at it's finest
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Once upon a time, Wafflemeisters wrote;
> Replacing the Wires with a custom grade is out of the question, cost
>wise. If it isn't, I don't want to hear about it (I'm jealous)....
<snip the rest>
sigh. Replacing wires is out of the question period. It's one of those
one shot type of implantations. Didn't anybody fully read Shadowtech?
sigh again.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 05:27:31 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, Ereskanti wrote;
>> Well, didn't the elves try to exterminate the dragons in Earthdawn?
>>
>Yes, and one could say that the Sphinx had a lot to do with the outcome of
>that discussion....hmmm....could be...
The Sphinx was created to look over Theran's rule. Nothing to do
with dragon's there. Thera has had trouble with dragons before but Thera
is also a mixed nation and not Elven. Sphinx has just sat there since its
creation. The rulers of Thera do not know if the Spinx will ever move but
they still watch what they do (getting a little braver with time).
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 05:32:40 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, Robert Nesius wrote;
>A more "street" oriented approach would be a lot of fun. Unfortunately,
while
>FASA's source books go along way towards adding clarity to their world, and
>pushing broad story arcs along, they don't do a lot to emphasize, encourage,
>and strengthen real roleplaying. It seems like it's all more toys,
>background, and rules.
I'm curious, how is a game supplement supposed to emphasize,
encourage, and strengthen real roleplaying? That sounds more like the
players responsibility. Games are just supposed to present rules and
background for you to do this in. No book can make a munchkin play by the
rules or make someone roleplay when they are not going to.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
"CYNIC, n. A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are,
not as they ought to be."
-The Devil's Dictionary, Ambrose Bierce
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 05:44:00 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Traveling Quiz
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, Wafflemeisters wrote;
>> > Why we won't see many area sourcebooks.
>> >
>> > It's simple, FASA painted themselves in a corner with Shadowrun in
>> > that everything happens in your home city.
>
> Not IMO. Our characters travel a LOT, and "home city" tends to
loose
>meaning pretty fast. We've liked / used most of the sourcebooks, but a
>"genric travle guide", would be better for us. NAGRL fills some gaps,
>but leaves many. Just because all the FASA stuf says "Seattle", doesn't
>mean people play Seattle- similar features can be adapted for plots set
>n any city. And having EVERYTHING happen in your town starts to stretch
>thin pretty fast.
I think that you're an exception to the norm. I think the most obvious
way to find out what happens most often is to poll everyone.
Does your campaign involve travel, how often, and how far and where is it
centered?
My campaign does involve travel frequently but rarely beyond CAS borders.
Any adventure can usually occur around the greater Carolina areas (which
can be considered an extended home area). The home city is the greater
Charlotte Sprawl.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 02:59:41 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Re: FASA's On/Off Course? (Panther , Tue 9:33)
>
> > Does anyone remember the
> > little slogan you see about Shadowrun in the game shop posters?
> > "Where man meets machine in an age of magic". The way things are
> > going, I wouldn't be surprised if Haley's Comet takes all of the
> > magic with it when it leaves.
You admit to playing less SR thanothergames (what others?), and more
mages / magic campaigns when you do. Do you have something AGAINST more
"mundane" campaigns / characters / games? I personally LIKE to see a
non-mage character do something useful and important (besides protecting
the mage).
> If it does, I guarantee right now that I'll stop buying SR stuff and
> keep what I've got. The original premise for SR (IMHO) was a
> cyberpunk game where magic was just beginning to return to the earth.
> The way the game's bg is written, you simply CAN'T get rid of the
> magic and still have it be SR. You can LIMIT it, yes. But if it
> totally gets removed from the game you no longer have SR, you have CP
> 2020.
I'm sure FASA is not on any sort of general "anti-magic" kick. They
mayhave been spending a while emphasizing major NON-MAGICAL events, and
letting magic remain at a "steady state", which has not happened almost
since the games introduction. Hell, people STILL find new tricks for
old magic in the basic book.
Second, really powerful magic (including mage PC's who are better than
99% of corp sec magic forces) make for problematic world developement,
so some balance needs to be restored to the magic system. Some magic
plotlines / rules were introduced with poor consideration for larger
eventual impact, and need to be refined.
>
> > A [magic] de-emphasization turns this
> > into another Rifts, where we buy more books just to see what new
> > toys we've been provided with, rather than what it was intended to
> > be: a point where both magic and technology, two otherwise
> > irreconcilable forces, were both necessary to get shit done.
Another "Rifts"? As opposed to another "Mage: the Assension"?
:) As
for the "new gadget / book" factor- how many mages go WITHOUT intiating
for more than a few runs? About 0%? I'd say thats a hefty "new gadget
factor" that should be looked at. Just because 90% of the munchi mage
stuff is all in one book doesn't mean its better for the game....
In actuality, creating new areas of interest removes no utility from
mages, it just shows how other developements are just as interesting /
threatening / important.
New mundane gear is often doubly imbalancing in the hands of mages, and
should be done with more concern for "interest" than power escalation.
I'm pretty sure it will be.
There is also no evidence that future TECH (and general rule) revisons
won't be just as limiting as future MAGIC revisions. AFAIK, to the
contrary. SR3 could do a LOT in that area.
>
> Not only that, but by forcing us to have more firepower and ppl on a
> team, it attempts to force us to play merc campaigns
>
Well, if deckers and riggers were more common than mages, which as PC's
AND published NPC's, they ain't, and less of a pain to use (say, as
quick, simple, and half as effective as mages), they would fill many of
the role mages do now: scouting, nonviolent security nuetralization,
misidirection, intellegence, and concealment.
Also, Mundane =/= machine gun toting yahoo (ie, merc sterotype, which
you have not gone beyond here), and saying so is offensive to people who
play intellegent mundanes who prefer non lethal (even SOCIAL) solutions
to problems. Iv'e seen plenty a mage who's generic solution was "I'm
invisible, spell-locked. I Cast Fireball."
> > > >One OFF
> > >
> > > Two with mine.
> > Three..
> Make it four
Two ON, I believe. From what I know, the arco shutdown stuff ROCKS,
and has some very cool "larger implications". Could make bug city look
like- well, a bunch of stupid bugs.
-Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:38:15 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners
In-Reply-To: <6b809db.35512c2a@***.com>
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MgkellyMP5 said on 23:36/ 6 May 98...
> << Ah, SR1 and autosuccesses and variable staging. Hey, I bet the kiddies
> haven't ever heard of 3L1 or 5D4 damage codes, eh? Now THAT complicated
> combat.
> >>
>
> and it was a pain in the ass too! '-2 to Power Level/ +1 Wound Level and it
> makes the damage code of a Browning Max-Power with Firepower ammo....'
??? Firepower(tm) ammo only added +2 to the Power, turning 4M2 (which
sucked) to 6M2. You must be thinking of flechette, which IIRC was -1
Power, +1 Staging *checks SR1* yep.
> personally, i was very relieved when they started using 2 as the Staging
> number for everything in SR2.
It disappointed me when I looked at the damage rules in SRII... I _liked_
the variable staging, it gave weapons slightly more ways in which to be
different, and my experience is that it didn't make combat slower than in
second edition. With either you have to divide the successes by something
and then stage up or down accordingly, it's just that the number varies
instead of being a fixed 2.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:38:16 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Encounters
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Cobra said on 2:02/ 7 May 98...
> >And we need to keep it simple -- Sprawl Sites has half-adventures, not
> >encounters. Hmm... is this an idea for the next PW book?
>
> It's not that simple. If it's only encounters, it can turn into random
> monsters... If this can arise, I think it could be interesting to give
> simple plots which can become bigger or keep small. A good exemple could
> be like this :
[snip example]
I like this... It allows for very simple encounters where all the runners
have to do is solve a small problem (or even do nothing at all and wait
until it goes away), or can get deeply involved if they choose to.
Should we write this up into a full net.book?
MC23 said on 22:04/ 6 May 98...
> I think we've found a good example of how some of these things should be
> set up. A window dressing option should be presented as well. Sometimes
> is nice to have background that has no plot attatched.
Another good idea.
> Gurth, are you ready to be editor to a net book with a general list
> contibution. Hell, I might even add something.
Sure, I've done it before and I'll probably do it again. However, there is
the minor matter that these things usually get bogged down for lots of
reasons and thus take very long to get finished :/
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:38:16 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Cyber and Body Index
In-Reply-To: <355169C6.3FA2@**********.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Wafflemeisters said on 2:59/ 7 May 98...
> The knowledge in the grimoire, as a "Manual of Practical
Thamaturgy",
> should not be openly availble, either, IMO.
I thought about that at first too, but after looking at it a bit better I
didn't really see anything wrong with it; all it'll be used for are the
spells and rules clarifications. Same with Awakenings: I will use its
rules for things like spell signatures and focus addiction, but the
in-game texts aren't available until '57.
> It can lead to people playing them exclusively, and is one reason we've
> allowed characters to start with items from Shadowtech in our 2054-5
> game. YMMV.
I'm stickin with the dates in the books, and probably make items available
slightly before the earliest date, but likely add a few unlisted flaws to
the occasional item, to represent it being a pre-release, test version.
> > Now all we need to do is convince the other half of the group that this
> > is the best thing to do to solve the mess we're in...
This succeeded. Even the player who was the main cause of the troubles
agreed that it was a good idea to start again. he only didn't like not
having all those toys he's gotten used to :)
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:38:16 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Talismongering
In-Reply-To: <35516A6B.5520@**********.net>
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Wafflemeisters said on 3:01/ 7 May 98...
> > Oh, yeah. Jett is perfect for bodyguard work. She can take on astral OR
> > mundane bad guys without missing a beat. Of course, she's got that
> > ever-present "Ground your HellBlast Here" sign on her back...but hey,
> > that's a fair trade.
>
> No problem- Hellblasts can't be grounded, since astral mages can't cast
> DM's. :)
Hellblast is a combat spell :) And it's even multi-functional when cast
from the astral: it'll A) likely kill the target and anyone nearby, and B)
help the caster commit suicide *grin*
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:38:16 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: How much down time?
In-Reply-To: <v03110709b17704dd295d@[204.202.55.216]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Robert Nesius said on 23:32/ 6 May 98...
> Questions for the list:
>
> How much downtime do your characters usually have between runs?
Up until now we haven't really kept track of dates, it was more like "It's
summer," "It's winter," and so on. I'm planning to keep the actual date in
mind a bit more in the upcoming campaign, and I'm estimating there'll be
about one or two months down time between runs.
> How many runs per game year do your groups fit in?
See above.
> What is the average grade of initiacy that your magically actives attain?
In the last group of PCs (half of which died recently) there were two
grade 1 and one grade 2 initiates.
> How about average skill rating. ie: Lots of sixes and higher? Sixes and
> lower?
Most were around 3 to 5 in the last group. Almost nobody goes for sixes in
skills, instead choosing to take more skills at lower levels. One or two
players take the approach of "these are my primary skills, I'll give them
6 points plus a concentration" while the others tend to diversify more.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
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Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 06:54:10 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Gregory Family <wvyc@**.NET.AU>
Subject: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
In-Reply-To: <199805071037.MAA01627@*****.xs4all.nl>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:38 7/05/98 +0100, Gurth wrote:
>> Ah, SR1 and autosuccesses and variable staging. Hey, I bet the kiddies
>> haven't ever heard of 3L1 or 5D4 damage codes, eh? Now THAT
>>complicated combat.
[snip]
>It disappointed me when I looked at the damage rules in SRII... I _liked_
>the variable staging, it gave weapons slightly more ways in which to be
>different, and my experience is that it didn't make combat slower than in
>second edition. With either you have to divide the successes by something
>and then stage up or down accordingly, it's just that the number varies
>instead of being a fixed 2.
I liked the old rules better as well, for a bundle of reasons. Matter of
fact, we still use the three-part variable staging rules in our campaign.
Anyone else out there been faithful to the ole first ed. rules? =)
Cheers.
Tauri.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:34:18 +0
Reply-To: msteffens@********.ie
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Martin Steffens <msteffens@********.IE>
Organization: Arthouse
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners or ShadowGramps
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980506143404.266fa06a@****.fbiz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On 6 May 98 at 17:49, Erik Jameson wrote:
> But reading this, I suddenly felt like an old man...it's just so
> rare that I deal with anyone under 21 anymore unless they are asking
> "Can I take your order please?" that this "sudden" burt of youth
on
> RN makes me feel ancient...
>
> Hey, maybe we should start an old man's club on RN, gotta be at
> least 25 or older. You could put "RN Geriatric Brigade" or
> something in your .sig and be allowed one post per thread going on
> about "back in my day, we didn't have the Internet, we had to read
> RN with smoke signals..."
Gods, I was feeling pretty fine untill I read this... darn I almost
managed to block the fact that I'm going to be 30 next year from my
mind, and judging by the fact that I haven't needed my walking stick
for some time now, it worked. But suddenly it all came back...
SR1 fire arms rules are better, pre-IE world seemed so much
cleaner... if I could only find back my first ed rule book.
Write me in for the Fossile Club, and get me a pretty
nurse to tuck me in at night.
Grumble.. just rejoined the list after two years of absence and now
this...
Martin Steffens
IT co-ordinator
Arthouse Multimedia Centre for the Arts
Curved Street, Temple Bar, Dublin 2, Ireland
phone: +353 (1) 6056800 fax: +353 (1) 6056801
e-mail: msteffens@********.ie
www: http://www.arthouse.ie
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:49:07 +0
Reply-To: msteffens@********.ie
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Martin Steffens <msteffens@********.IE>
Organization: Arthouse
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <199805051517.RAA05470@****.mhnet.fr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On 5 May 98 at 17:24, Cobra wrote:
> I totally agree. What made SR really innovative was that magic was
> well developed and managed. I tend to think that Mike doesn't like
> much those magic threads and, IMO, it makes SR storyline a bit flat.
> If the dragon heart trilogy was cool, it seems to be the end of the
> old SR line... When I have a look at hte different storyline
> contributors, I see the best with Nigel Findley. Perhaps SR has gone
> with his death...
Like others I think it's more a case of getting things back into
balance again. I remember that a lot of people on the list tended to
rant a lot about the IE influence, and I for once are quite happy
that they've been (or are going to) taken down a peg or two. It was
slowly turning into a Magical Mistery Tour and the world always
seemed to be on the brick of extinsion by some kind of magical
monster. It reminded me a lot of the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying
Game.
Personally I think that humanity (including all other species) was
nasty enough to keep the life of a shadowrunner interesting.
Enough ramblings in the style of "In my time we had some REAL
shadowrunners, we didn't need mr pansy Harlequin to safe our buns,
rant, rant"
Add one to the ON camp.
Martin Steffens
IT co-ordinator
Arthouse Multimedia Centre for the Arts
Curved Street, Temple Bar, Dublin 2, Ireland
phone: +353 (1) 6056800 fax: +353 (1) 6056801
e-mail: msteffens@********.ie
www: http://www.arthouse.ie
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 05:12:11 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matthew Waddilove <m_waddilove@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Vehicle Economy (was RE: What is a CF?)
Content-Type: text/plain
"Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman" wrote
>
<Huge SNIP>
>
>I'm still trying to figure out where a man-sized or smaller rotor drone
>fits 120 liters of fuel.
>
I've got other problems with fuel like why does it take 1 CF to hold 50L
of fuel because
1 CF = 0.125m^3 and
50 L = 0.05m^3
so where does the other .075m^3 go????
I'm not saying that I want 125L from 1 CF (well it would be nice:) ) but
loosing 75L of volume seems extreme.
I'll just do some calculations to see if I can come up with a more
reasonable value.
1 CF = a .5 m cube(for simplicities sake I use a cube)
so if we take 2.5 cm from every side of the cube for mountings and the
fuel line we get a tank that's a .45m cube which yields a volume of
.091125 m^3 ~= 90L
I've been playing with other figure's but I'll leave it there so as not
to bore you all.
what does everyone think?
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:17:31 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Airwasp <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: How much down time?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 5/7/98 6:31:18 AM !!!First Boot!!!, nesius@******.COM
writes:
> Questions for the list:
>
> How much downtime do your characters usually have between runs?
Normally a week in between games, though after some of the "larger" runs, I'll
extend it even longer, such as a three week downtime for last Sunday's game.
> How many runs per game year do your groups fit in?
20 to 30.
> What is the average grade of initiacy that your magically actives attain?
8+
> How about average skill rating. ie: Lots of sixes and higher? Sixes and
> lower?
6-10's
> Just trying to get a feel for where people are at. Probably all over
> the map, but I'd appreciate your input on this.
All over the world.
> Thanks,
> -Rob
You are welcome Rob, I wish I could have been playing with you guys so many
years ago.
Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 08:20:55 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cyberware Power Sources (Was Re: Cyberware: Where do you put
the bateries?)
In-Reply-To: <Version.32.19980507035554.00f7dd00@****.mhnet.fr>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> That makes me think about an evolution of SR world... Magic drains energies
> from astral quite easily and with great potential. If you magic and
> technological devices to harvest those energies, that can give you great
> possibilities.
didn't they talk about thin in one of the orrigonal sourcebooks? I seem to
remember a post about a powerplant that tried to use a locked physiacl
manipulation with the electrical elemental effect to creat "free power",
but failed because of astral pollution. Anyone else?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Czar Eggbert
Ruler, Dark Side of the Moon.
homepage: http://travel.to/czareggbert.empire
mailto: czregbrt@*********.edu
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"I lived my life in a ship in a bottle in a world in a glass jar..."
-Mike Fontaine
"CRACK! SMASH! SHATTER!"
-Helen Stunkard
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:49:52 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.16.19980507204549.2c97cd50@*******.cs.net.au> from "The
Gregory Family" at May 7, 98 06:54:10 am
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And verily, did The Gregory Family hastily scribble thusly...
|I liked the old rules better as well, for a bundle of reasons. Matter of
|fact, we still use the three-part variable staging rules in our campaign.
|Anyone else out there been faithful to the ole first ed. rules? =)
Yup....
Me for one.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 07:39:43 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: ILs
In-Reply-To: <199805070216.UAA10207@******.carl.org> from "MC23" at May
6,
98 10:13:54 pm
Content-Type: text
MC23 wrote:
/
/ Once upon a time, Erik Jameson wrote;
/
/ >But reading this, I suddenly felt like an old man...it's just so rare that
/ >I deal with anyone under 21 anymore unless they are asking "Can I take your
/ >order please?" that this "sudden" burt of youth on RN makes me feel
/ >ancient...
/
/ I've been a club boi for half my life now so I still deal with young
/ uns'. Now realizing they are all too young to date makes me feel really
/ ancient.
/
/ Is this becoming an Immortal Listmembers thread now?
/
/ Damn IL's are behind everything!
Yes, yes we are ;)
(Think about it.)
-David
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 07:43:37 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <199805062324.RAA09370@******.carl.org> from "Nexx" at May
6,
98 06:23:12 pm
Content-Type: text
Nexx wrote:
/
/ ----------
/ > From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
/
/ > While I could have worded my statement alot better, I stand by it --
/ Magic
/ > isn't all that makes Shadowrun Shadowrun.
/
/ True, but its a major ingredient in what makes our Shadowrun our
/ Shadowrun. You take it out, and it tastes like a cake where someone
/ forgot the baking soda.
I'd use a different analogy. Shadowrun without magic would be like
chocolate cake without chocolate. It would still be a good yellow
cake. If you were jonesing for chocolate cake you would be very
dissapointed. But if you didn't know that chocolate was an option
you would be happy with the yellow cake.
-David
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:51:32 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the
SingleShadowrunner(thanks))
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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Erik Jameson wrote:
>Ah, SR1 and autosuccesses and variable staging. Hey, I bet the kiddies
>haven't ever heard of 3L1 or 5D4 damage codes, eh? Now THAT complicated
>combat.
Hey - I'm not a fogey yet (23, for the record), and I prefer the SR1
damage staging... Besides, anybody who's read SRII from cover to cover
has heard of SR1 staging. ;-)
>>(Who played back when there were TWO german states.)
>
>You know what the sad thing is? There are plenty of people on this list
>who simply have no recollection of living like that, who only know about
>the Cold War from books and school. Some of us geezers actually grew up
>with the spectre of the Red Menance and Global Thermonuclear War.
Heh - I remember watching WarGames for the first time. Back then
my computer was a C64 and I was still disgusted by how *stupid*
the movie was.
James Ojaste
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 07:51:54 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: [OT] Nuances of Language
In-Reply-To: <199805062042.OAA21983@******.carl.org> from "Nexx" at May
6,
98 03:40:50 pm
Content-Type: text
Nexx wrote:
/
/ ----------
/ > From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
/
/ > But Shadowrun would still be
/ > Shadowrun if it didn't have magic, it would just be different.
/
/ Adam, I respect your work on this list greatly, but that has got to be
/ the most moronic phrase in the entire English Language, and likely quite a
/ few others. X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
/ different.
But isn't language used to symbolically represent a world that's
perceived abstractly?
And if you'll look closely the top of an X looks like the top of a
Y. So a Y is a different looking X, and vice versa. So from one
viewpoint, "X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
different." works.
Just because your perspective is different then Adam's doesn't make
Adam's perspective any less significant.
Are we having fun yet :)
-David
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:58:21 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: How much down time?
In-Reply-To: <v03110709b17704dd295d@[204.202.55.216]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Questions for the list:
Answer for you... :)
>How much downtime do your characters usually have between runs?
Approximately 1 month.
>How many runs per game year do your groups fit in?
From 10 to 15.
>What is the average grade of initiacy that your magically actives attain?
After 3 years, two are grade 5 (in a group) and one is grade 3 (alone). The
first campaign only made an initiate (grade 0) and the third campaign is
low power (but one of them will perhaps become grade 0).
>How about average skill rating. ie: Lots of sixes and higher? Sixes and
>lower?
Many have skills around 4 or 5. Usually, each of the PCs has a skill at 7
or 8.
>Just trying to get a feel for where people are at. Probably all over
>the map, but I'd appreciate your input on this.
>
>Thanks,
You're welcome.
- Cobra.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:05:57 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <runefo@***.uio.no>
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Organization: The University of Oslo
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.16.19980507204549.2c97cd50@*******.cs.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
>
> At 12:38 7/05/98 +0100, Gurth wrote:
> >> Ah, SR1 and autosuccesses and variable staging. Hey, I bet the kiddies
> >> haven't ever heard of 3L1 or 5D4 damage codes, eh? Now THAT
> >>complicated combat.
Heh heh heh.. I always like pro assassins using those 3L1 guns.
They threw enough dice at you that they always got .. about 3.. more
successes than the defender. Armor reducing power was a good idea,
though, rather than automatic resistance successes.
(Heretic, I know. I'm not *THAT* old, just 26.).
--
Fade
And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:13:04 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
David Buehrer wrote:
>/ > But Shadowrun would still be
>/ > Shadowrun if it didn't have magic, it would just be different.
>/
>/ Adam, I respect your work on this list greatly, but that has got to
>be
>/ the most moronic phrase in the entire English Language, and likely quite a
>/ few others. X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
>/ different.
>
>But isn't language used to symbolically represent a world that's
>perceived abstractly?
Perceived abstractly? I don't quite follow...
>And if you'll look closely the top of an X looks like the top of a
>Y. So a Y is a different looking X, and vice versa. So from one
>viewpoint, "X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
>different." works.
Yes, unless having Y is a requirement for being X. Take that
sentence, replacing X with "a cube" and Y with "six sides".
"A cube would still be a cube if it didn't have six sides". Not
so... Since Y is a defining characteristic of X in this case, the
statement is not necessarily true (damn char set doesn't have
symbolic logic symbols, or I'd write it out :-).
>Just because your perspective is different then Adam's doesn't make
>Adam's perspective any less significant.
No, but it remains to be shown that magic is not a defining
characteristic of Shadowrun...
>Are we having fun yet :)
Eh. What choice do we have?
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:26:05 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Vehicle Economy (was RE: What is a CF?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Ereskanti wrote:
>I'm still trying to figure out where a man-sized or smaller rotor drone
>fits 120 liters of fuel.
>-=-=-=-=-
[snip]
>As for the fuel, yeah, the numbers don't match quite right, i know...we
>argued
>out compressed fuel tanks (which I once made rules for...Wordman, if you read
>this, do you still have those as well? They were in the Nagee back when
>Chris
>did them)....
Well, 120 liters of fuel is 1.5m x 20cm x 40cm - which will fit into
a man-sized drone with a little effort. You could hang a 0.125m^3 box
but it would be pretty heavy (assuming gasoline, it'd mass 0.7 kg/L =
87.5 kg).
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:29:32 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Vehicle Economy (was RE: What is a CF?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Matthew Waddilove wrote:
>"Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman" wrote
>>I'm still trying to figure out where a man-sized or smaller rotor drone
>>fits 120 liters of fuel.
>
>I've got other problems with fuel like why does it take 1 CF to hold 50L
>of fuel because
>1 CF = 0.125m^3 and
>50 L = 0.05m^3
>so where does the other .075m^3 go????
Haven't you heard of "dark matter"? The astrophysicists just forgot
to add in the missing volume from their fuel tanks! :-)
>I'm not saying that I want 125L from 1 CF (well it would be nice:) ) but
>loosing 75L of volume seems extreme.
>
>I'll just do some calculations to see if I can come up with a more
>reasonable value.
>
>1 CF = a .5 m cube(for simplicities sake I use a cube)
>so if we take 2.5 cm from every side of the cube for mountings and the
>fuel line we get a tank that's a .45m cube which yields a volume of
>.091125 m^3 ~= 90L
So a reasonable approximation is just halving the CF cost. 1 CF
per 100L.
>I've been playing with other figure's but I'll leave it there so as not
>to bore you all.
>
>what does everyone think?
Sure. It doesn't bother me much either way.
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:53:28 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: TalonMail <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Shadowrun without magic?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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There have been many posts and speculations on the list recently to the effect
that "FASA is reducing/removing magic from Shadowrun." Speaking as the guy who
is hard at work on the Magic chapter for Shadowrun 3 and what will probably be
the largest Magic Sourcebook Shadowrun has ever seen, I have to tell you that
nothing could be further from the truth.
FASA and Mike Mulvihill know full well that the magic/fantasy elements of
Shadowrun are some of the game's greatest strengths, that seperated SR from
all the other "cyber/dark future" RPGs. There is NO plan to remove magic from
SR.
There is an effort to balance the fantasy elements with more technology,
politics, corporate action, and such. As people have pointed out, there was a
point where every major event in the Sixth World was triggered by a
spirit/dragon/immortal elf, and that took away from the other things that are
cool about Shadowrun, like the Matrix, cybertech, the corps and all that other
stuff. Products like Cyberpirates and Blood in the Boardroom are addressing
that.
I'm disappointed by the number of folks who think FASA isn't heading in the
right direction with Shadowrun. I've been very proud to work with Mike on the
game in the past few years. If you do feel SR is going the wrong way, all I
can tell you is to fill out your product response cards and let FASA know what
you like and what you don't like. And, as Bull pointed out, send in a product
proposal or two.
Okay, back to work on the magic stuff.
Take care,
Steve
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:18:35 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Cugley <michael.cugley@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Non-running sources of income (was Re: Talismongering)
In-Reply-To: <354F849C.2234@*********.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On the subject of security for one's enchanting adept's thriving Orichalcum
production facitlity, what do you think High Lifestyle's for, anyway?
Security is included in the price, as I recall...
--
Mike Cugley, lunatic at large
http://freespace.virgin.net/michael.cugley/
http://freespace.virgin.net/michael.cugley/Art/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:00:20 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Katt Freyson wrote:
>|> Adam, I respect your work on this list greatly, but that
>|> has got to be
>|> the most moronic phrase in the entire English Language, and
>|> likely quite a
>|> few others. X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
>|> different.
>
> Phew, I was hesitant in answering Adam's post due to my recent history,
>but was hoping someone else had caught this. If someone had given this
>phrase to my teacher when I was taking Critical Thinking, they would have
>flunked. Basically he is saying P= !P which is not possible.
Err, maybe you should talk to your teacher again... That's not what
he's saying. X and Y are *different*. X != Y. Or do you deny that
Shadowrun would still be Shadowrun without, say, DocWagon? Sure,
DocWagon plays *a part* in the world, but it isn't really necessary.
The world would feel the same 99% of the time, because DocWagon isn't
a requirement for Shadowrun. Now, whether magic is a requirement
for Shadowrun is another question...
> I would believe that Adam was trying to say that Shadowrun without magic
>would be different, but still close enough not to matter.
>
> It is my opinion that this is wrong, very wrong. While it may not be
>apparent all the time, magic in Shadowrun has greatly influenced things. The
>Tir Tan Gire(sp) for example would not exist, and that is a big difference.
Tir Tairngire. Why wouldn't it? You could still have IEs without
magic - it'd just be due to high tech.
>The NANs would not have been able to reclaim any territory. And, the day to
>day things that are not necessarily noticed would be very different.
So the NAN uses nukes and assault rifles instead of volcanoes.
> So I'd say that to state that Shadowrun would be basically the same
>without the magic is being incorrect. But that is my opinion.
Oh, I agree. I don't think that SR without magic would be the same.
> Just because you have scenarios that don't make much use of magic is
>irrelevant, because the magic is there in the background and does influence
>things.
Well, it makes some stuff easier but mainly it makes the world much
more mysterious.
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:59:13 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.net>
> No problem- Hellblasts can't be grounded, since astral mages
can't cast
> DM's. :)
Then its too bad Hellblasts are combat spells, isn't it?
***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
"Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn lasts
forever"
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
"Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo the
better part of humor."
aka Ellegon, Working at making Cannon canon
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are crunchy
and good with ketchup."
--------[Geek Code Block]-----------
GED/GSS d- s++:+ a-- C++ W w+ PS+.5 PE- Y+ t+
5+ X+ R*+.5 !tv+ b+.5 DI+ D- G e h !r-- !y+
-------[End Geek Code Block]-------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:00:37 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: How much down time?
In-Reply-To: <v03110709b17704dd295d@[204.202.55.216]> from "Robert
Nesius" at
May 6, 98 11:32:59 pm
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>
> Questions for the list:
>
Alot this depends on the type of campaign you play, IMHO
> How much downtime do your characters usually have between runs?
>
I usually role a D6, and let that be the number of weeks. Exceptions
do occur however.
> How many runs per game year do your groups fit in?
>
Ick...I only instituted the above rule recently. I'd say somewhere
in the neighborhood of 20+, but it depends. Some adventures take
day in game time, others weeks/monthes.
> What is the average grade of initiacy that your magically actives attain?
>
I haven't had a PC higher then 3 in my campaign in awhile.
> How about average skill rating. ie: Lots of sixes and higher? Sixes and
> lower?
>
Most of the PC's in my world have a few skills six or higher, but I tend
to encourage them to spread out. (I have some modified rules for raising
skills and stats)
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:01:19 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Loseke <mike@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Farts Club
In-Reply-To: <l03110703b176ec5e6b28@[100.100.100.10]> from "Wordman" at
May 7,
98 00:49:30 am
Content-Type: text
Thus spake Wordman:
>
> Geoff Skellams <geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU> wrote:
>
> > Well, I'll be in that (although I can't qualify for the back in
> > the early days of RN, because I only joined again a couple of months
> > ago). I turn 28 on the 25th of this month and I'm a father to boot.
>
> Damn! You're even older than me! (By a month or so, anyway).
Doh! I just turned 29 a couple months ago...
--
Mike Loseke | Unix: Best used by its freshness
mike@*******.com | date of January 19, 2038
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:08:25 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Traveling Quiz
In-Reply-To: <199805070945.FAA12825@********.mindspring.com> from "MC23"
at
May 7, 98 05:44:00 am
Mime-Version: 1.0
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> Does your campaign involve travel, how often, and how far and where is it
> centered?
>
My current campaign is centered in Seattle, but usually involves travel
at least 1 out of every five runs. (just for flavor).
My current players will soon embark on a fairly long ordeal
that takes them to Calfree for awhile. :)
I tend to start most of my games in Seattle, since its
the most fleshed out place FASA seems to have created. From there
I usually stay within North America, but exceptions do occur.
(I'm not fond of London nor are my players, only used Germany once, and
anything involving Aztlan seems to become a huge mess. :))
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:27:26 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: JD <germany@*****************.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>As far as "where do I want to go today?": The path I'd like for SR is
>definately not the one FASA will take. I really like more street level
>plots, and FASA tends towards the Epic. I'd love to see an adventure
book
>that is geared mostly towards a gang campaign. The book would give
extreme
>detail on maybe ten blocks, the gang's turf. Even if you didn't run a
gang
>campaign, you could have runners enter the turf for one reason or
another.
>That's the type of stuff a really like -- exactlt the type of stuff
FASA
>does not make (with possible exception of Seattle Sourcebook).
>
>Wordman
>
This is what I agree with. I would like to see more "realistic"
runners, both in the novels and in the game. I have played (and GMed)
many games where the players get out of control, because of what the
books were like. New players are especially bad about this. They
either come from another system where this is prevelent or they read the
SR novels for ideas, and get the wrong ideas.
I started playing SR because of the "realism" involved -- people you
could relate to, doing things that you could imagine. With this Epic
turn of events, I have a hard time realting, or even imagining anymore.
Jon Doud
germany@*****************.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:27:34 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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----------
> From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.net>
> You admit to playing less SR thanothergames (what others?), and
more
> mages / magic campaigns when you do. Do you have something AGAINST more
> "mundane" campaigns / characters / games? I personally LIKE to see a
> non-mage character do something useful and important (besides protecting
> the mage).
Actually, I said that, not Panther (at least what you had quoted). I
don't play much Shadowrun because I can't find a group, so I mostly play
Palladium and work on tweaking the rules and settings of several games
(SR, AD&D [both editions], Palladium [most of their games], ED, Star Wars
and MERP once in a blue moon, Ars Magica, Storyteller even less frequently
than Star Wars and MERP, V&V... and that's off the top of my head).
As for having anything against mundane characters, no, not really. Its
just that for a very long period I wound up being the mage (or, in AD&D,
the priest), so I got my gaming reflexes tuned towards having magic at
hand. You read about the burned-out mage in Awakenings? That's me with a
fighter\street meat\etc..
Someone pointed out that, being based in a real tradition, Shadowrun
magic works better than most others, it just feels better. I whole
heartedly agree. While I sometimes have a bit of trouble remembering the
rules for Shadowrun, the magic system makes perfect sense (I just think I
could improve it a bit.... but I'll post that later).
> Another "Rifts"? As opposed to another "Mage: the
Assension"?
:) As
> for the "new gadget / book" factor- how many mages go WITHOUT intiating
> for more than a few runs? About 0%? I'd say thats a hefty "new gadget
> factor" that should be looked at. Just because 90% of the munchi mage
> stuff is all in one book doesn't mean its better for the game....
However, how much new stuff gets introduced for mages? Sure, initiating
is a great help, and gives the mage a huge boost... which then barely
moves at all. Whereas a sammy or a decker only needs money, a mage burns
more karma in a day than a sammy burns in a year (on average, of course).
And Karma requires doing shit, important shit, in order to get it. New
totems can't really be counted, simply because you have to start from
scratch if you want to use a new totem.
***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
"Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn lasts
forever"
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
"Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo the
better part of humor."
aka Ellegon, Working at making Cannon canon
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are crunchy
and good with ketchup."
--------[Geek Code Block]-----------
GED/GSS d- s++:+ a-- C++ W w+ PS+.5 PE- Y+ t+
5+ X+ R*+.5 !tv+ b+.5 DI+ D- G e h !r-- !y+
-------[End Geek Code Block]-------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:33:41 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
In-Reply-To: <199805071410.IAA13241@******.carl.org> from "Ojaste,James
[NCR]"
at May 7, 98 10:13:04 am
Content-Type: text
Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote:
/
/ David Buehrer wrote:
/ >
/ >But isn't language used to symbolically represent a world that's
/ >perceived abstractly?
/
/ Perceived abstractly? I don't quite follow...
Sorry :) I was remembering my highschool days when we discovered
metaphysics and had long debates about nothing, and subsequently
wrote a sentance that bordered on being metaphysical.
However, I will try to explain.
I can look out the window and see a parking lot that has automobils
parked in it. Most of the autos are cars, with an SUV and a couple
of minivans. There're a wide variety of cars: two door, four door,
sport, sedan, etc. There're also a wide variaty of manufactures:
Saturn, Ford, VW, Honda, Chevy, Toyota, etc (the Fords seem to be in
the majority).
When using a word such as auto, it's easy to see that it symbolically
describes an abstract idea. There really is no such thing as an
auto per se, and yet there is in the eye of the beholder.
The word car also symbolizes and abstract perception. A VW Fox GL
can be percieved as a car. A Ford Probe can be percieved as a car.
You'd think that when you get down to the level of Ford Probe that
you are no longer percieving abstractly. But you are. Think about
everything that that perception represents (depending on who you
are): sports car, fast, agile, two seater, babe magnet, middle aged
pacifier, etc.
It's not possible to not percieve something abstractly.
On a biological level your eye first interprets the light that is
reflected off of objects. Your brain then interprets this
interpretation. You then assign values to the interpretation. Is a
Ford Probe first and foremost a sports car? Or do you view it as a
babe magnet? Or is it something that middle aged men by to reclaim
their lost youth? Or is it just a car? Or is it a conglomeration of
seperate machines engineered to combine their functions to produce an
end result?
Whether you're reading or listening, you're interpreting abstract
symbols to interpret someone else's abstract perception of the
world. And when you communicate with someone you are attempting to
share your abstract perception of the world with that person by using
abstract symbols to define those perceptions.
It's a wonder we can communicate at all :)
/ >Are we having fun yet :)
/
/ Eh. What choice do we have?
<chuckle>
-David
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:33:29 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: How much down time?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 5/7/98 1:38:16 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
nesius@******.COM writes:
> Questions for the list:
Oh, then I have to put into this one. We have such a -history- in SR.... ;)
> How much downtime do your characters usually have between runs?
Depends on what Mike gets us or we manage to strangle out of him. Lately,
it's been not more than two or three days. We did manage 4 here lately.
We're BEGGINING (at least I am with Binder) to have more, but it ain't gonna
happen.
> How many runs per game year do your groups fit in?
Oooo, hard question. Definition of a run varies. I guess I would have to
estimate at least 80-100 different adventure hooks per "Game Year". Real Time
Year? Perhaps 50% more than that. BUT, an adventure hook is such a piece,
big/small, or the overall game theme we may be using.
> What is the average grade of initiacy that your magically actives attain?
THAT information is classified....but you know us a bit, at least me. Karmic
rich environs, yessirreeeeee....
> How about average skill rating. ie: Lots of sixes and higher? Sixes and
> lower?
Average Skills are leveling at about 5 or so. Average of the high skills???
Bouncing right now. Ignoring Binder's Enchanting oriented skills, probably
10ish....
> Just trying to get a feel for where people are at. Probably all over
> the map, but I'd appreciate your input on this.
>
> Thanks,
> -Rob
Okay Rob, now it's your turn. What are you guys running at these days? I
noticed you mentioned the "Vampire" usage, and think that's interesting/funny
in it's own way. I did my damndest to get Vamps/Shapers out of the hands of
the players (at the cost of half or more of the original game group
admittedly), yet I hear you at least use some of the background.
In short, how would you answer your own questions.
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:37:05 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 5/7/98 2:42:49 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
evamarie@**********.net writes:
> No problem- Hellblasts can't be grounded, since astral mages can't
> cast
> DM's. :)
> Seriously, though, how / why is Jett dual natured? That is more
> bizarre than the deltaware, IMO. MUCH more bizarre.
>
> -Mongoose
>
Uh, Mongoose, Hellblast is a Combat Spell (Fireblast in the new name for it).
So yes, it can be grounded appropriately. As for Jett's Dual Nature...well,
that depends I guess if she is assensing at the time (I've seen the character
sheet, and I still think she's cool :).
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:41:47 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 5/7/98 4:29:45 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
mc23@**********.COM writes:
> >> Well, didn't the elves try to exterminate the dragons in Earthdawn?
> >>
> >Yes, and one could say that the Sphinx had a lot to do with the outcome of
> >that discussion....hmmm....could be...
>
> The Sphinx was created to look over Theran's rule. Nothing to do
> with dragon's there. Thera has had trouble with dragons before but Thera
> is also a mixed nation and not Elven. Sphinx has just sat there since its
> creation. The rulers of Thera do not know if the Spinx will ever move but
> they still watch what they do (getting a little braver with time).
>
Actually, there was a passage concerning "the people of Thera waking up one
morning and seeing a dragon sitting on it's head." What happened in Thera
after that was incredibly precise and nightmarish (the extra deaths...sounded
biblical to me for the "First Born of Egypt" theory...).
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 08:39:25 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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----------
> From: Robert Nesius <nesius@******.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
> Date: Wednesday, May 06, 1998 11:27 PM
>
> My 2 cents:
>
> Magic in SR: I liked the combination of magic and tech. But what really
> made the magic click was the very intuitive and slick mechanics for it.
No,
> they are not perfect, but they were darn good. I'm re-reading the Grim
II
> now, and I'm still impressed.
>
True... I really like the system too, now that I think about it.
<snip>
>
> I also think that the dragon assissination seemed "forced."
>
<snip>
This comment was the real reason I replied to this one. The thought
occured to me that while the assassination of Dunky was a bit out of the
blue, the thought occurs the assassination of Kennedy was just as
unexpected. In real life there's not a lot of foreshadowing.
But it was probably something they forced, I will admit.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:46:24 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <199805071459.IAA15289@******.carl.org> from "Ojaste,James
[NCR]"
at May 7, 98 11:00:20 am
Content-Type: text
Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote:
/
/ Katt Freyson wrote:
/ >|> Adam, I respect your work on this list greatly, but that
/ >|> has got to be
/ >|> the most moronic phrase in the entire English Language, and
/ >|> likely quite a
/ >|> few others. X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
/ >|> different.
/ >
/ > Phew, I was hesitant in answering Adam's post due to my recent history,
/ >but was hoping someone else had caught this. If someone had given this
/ >phrase to my teacher when I was taking Critical Thinking, they would have
/ >flunked. Basically he is saying P= !P which is not possible.
/
/ Err, maybe you should talk to your teacher again... That's not what
/ he's saying. X and Y are *different*. X != Y. Or do you deny that
/ Shadowrun would still be Shadowrun without, say, DocWagon? Sure,
/ DocWagon plays *a part* in the world, but it isn't really necessary.
/ The world would feel the same 99% of the time, because DocWagon isn't
/ a requirement for Shadowrun. Now, whether magic is a requirement
/ for Shadowrun is another question...
This is starting to remind of of the "is Shadowrun Cyberpunk debate".
Please, let's not go there.
/ > So I'd say that to state that Shadowrun would be basically the same
/ >without the magic is being incorrect. But that is my opinion.
/
/ Oh, I agree. I don't think that SR without magic would be the same.
But would it be Shadowrun?
The answer depends on how one defines Shadowrun. And being
individuals we each define it differently.
In my definition of Shadowrun, magic is an integral factor. In
someone else's definition that might not be the case. And neither
one of us would be right or wrong.
-David
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 08:48:36 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Sourcebooks (was Re: FASA's On/Off Course?)
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----------
> From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.net>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Sourcebooks (was Re: FASA's On/Off Course?)
> Date: Thursday, May 07, 1998 1:01 AM
>
> > Re: FASA's On/Off Course? ("Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman" ,
Tue 18:16)
>
> > > Why we won't see many area sourcebooks.
> > >
> > > It's simple, FASA painted themselves in a corner with Shadowrun
in
> > > that everything happens in your home city.
>
> Not IMO. Our characters travel a LOT, and "home city" tends to
loose
> meaning pretty fast. We've liked / used most of the sourcebooks, but a
> "genric travle guide", would be better for us. NAGRL fills some gaps,
> but leaves many. Just because all the FASA stuf says "Seattle", doesn't
> mean people play Seattle- similar features can be adapted for plots set
> n any city. And having EVERYTHING happen in your town starts to stretch
> thin pretty fast.
>
I suppose that was sort of my point too, in a way (which was what I had
actually posted in the response you quoted. ;)) Our group has the
advantage of being in Seattle in real life. So Seattle is a good base of
operations for us. But I really like to broaden horizons when I run
things, so I like to be able to have the runners have to track something
down in the Carib League or in the wilds of Amazonia. A little bit of
variety. Plus I think it really gives you a good feel for the world, so
that you can give your character a bit more variety in his background than,
"My guy grew up in the streets of Seattle, he's always lived in Seattle.
He'll probably die in Seattle." =)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:56:35 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MgkellyMP5 <MgkellyMP5@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the Single
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 98-05-07 04:49:51 EDT, you write:
<< The poor man's deluded. He's been brainwashed by the SR2 new order.
Get 'im lads!
>>
Hey!! I resemble that remark!!
But seriously, it DID make combat a lot more deadly. Which was a good
incentive to think things through rather than using your guns.
Which may have helped cut down on the Munchkin population, had FASA stuck with
it.
Mgkelly
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 08:55:53 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkinism at it's finest
MIME-Version: 1.0
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----------
> From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Munchkinism at it's finest
> Date: Thursday, May 07, 1998 2:11 AM
>
> Once upon a time, Wafflemeisters wrote;
>
> > Replacing the Wires with a custom grade is out of the question,
cost
> >wise. If it isn't, I don't want to hear about it (I'm jealous)....
>
> <snip the rest>
>
> sigh. Replacing wires is out of the question period. It's one of those
> one shot type of implantations. Didn't anybody fully read Shadowtech?
> sigh again.
>
I thought that was many of the other reflex enhancers, like that chemical
boost that they have in the Street Sammy book, but not Wired Reflexes.
It's been a while since I've read Shadowtech cover to cover (like, since it
came out), so I could easily be forgetting something major.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:59:35 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun without magic?
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----------
> From: TalonMail <TalonMail@***.COM>
> There have been many posts and speculations on the list recently to the
effect
> that "FASA is reducing/removing magic from Shadowrun." Speaking as the
guy who
> is hard at work on the Magic chapter for Shadowrun 3 and what will
probably be
> the largest Magic Sourcebook Shadowrun has ever seen, I have to tell you
that
> nothing could be further from the truth.
I would just like to say that my initial comment was sarcastic (and, from
what I've read, pretty ill-informed). Unfortunately, I always forget the
little emoticons that denote that.
***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
"Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn lasts
forever"
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
"Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo the
better part of humor."
aka Ellegon, Working at making Cannon canon
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are crunchy
and good with ketchup."
--------[Geek Code Block]-----------
GED/GSS d- s++:+ a-- C++ W w+ PS+.5 PE- Y+ t+
5+ X+ R*+.5 !tv+ b+.5 DI+ D- G e h !r-- !y+
-------[End Geek Code Block]-------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:01:14 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Traveling Quiz
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In a message dated 5/7/98 4:46:18 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
mc23@**********.COM writes:
> Does your campaign involve travel, how often, and how far and where is it
> centered?
>
I'm bored, don't have to work today, so I'm gonna take up MC23's "Poll" for
the fun of it.
Does it involve travel? YES, most emphatically, YES!
How Often? All the bloody fragging time....
How FAR? That information is classified, though there are rumors of runs
made that are measurable in AU's... :P Hell, if it weren't for some really
exorberant spending accounts, the fuel bill alone will kill us all. One
character has family in Christchurch New Zealand. One Character is in the
process of moving to New Sakhalin, Nation of Siberia (our remade eastern
USSR). One character is looking into buying a nice little villa along the
outskirts of Cairo; Egypt. Another character (Gron the Ghoul) is home based
out of Chicago (working as an emissary between the St. Louis, Chicago and
'Greater Manhattan' Ghoul Communities. A few of the character bounce between
the others (Reaver, the Decker of the group) is curently in Egypt with Binder
ATM, but often goes to Christchurch to stay with Jazz (his best friend, and
the principle rigger; whose family is there...Jazz also has lots of growing
contacts with the Huk...he gave them a really nice cyberdeck we got from a run
as a "contact payment" recently). Greaser (whenever Brent danes us with his
presence) is from Seattle, but is working with the Tir Na nOg government
through it trouble times. Jen is in Maryland (in the mountains), but is also
connected to the Paths, and is helping out when she can (she's our principle
magician---Path of Druid). Oh yeah, Mythos (the "Empath"), he was in Pueblo
Corporate (Phoenix) but recently got run out of town by some other problems
(see below). I think he's staying on his yacht-thing somewhere in the Gulf of
Mexico (Gulf of Aztlan??).
(please note, in our games, the Paths of Tir recently had a major schism along
the lines of a Civil War breakout....seems someone found out that Alachia was
using the Paths too much for her own personal gain and put the information to
the surface....yep, got rid of that IE's set of influences really quick)
(in our games, we allowed for a character to discover that he was "Immortal",
but he wasn't one of the "Ancient Immortals". Alachia discovered him and
tried to recruit him, but he told her to go take a leap off of one of her
"Eternal Bridges". She retaliated with a warning shot, he fired back
something that nailed one of her homes, she hired an assassin, a modification
to the BTAC picked up the Morphseeker signature and the shot missed, he
retaliated, this time by giving certain information in his own ... Empathic
Way ... to others, sacrificed his whole grade he had up to that point in a
massive ritual aimed at her (kind of like burning foci points in the First Ed
rules) and snapped her contacts for a while. She gets pissy, calls up a
meeting at the next "Paths" meeting, but Neil (the guy from the Will who is
given the "Ring of the Bard") decides to display certain truths. Things go
downhill from there for her, and she backs off (aka, she is removed from our
interactions and the plot point was discarded for now) Now poor ol' Mythos is
rebuilding his Grade and Contacts....not a bad sacrifice for what would have
otherwise been his life and maybe ours too if allowed to go any further.)
Where is it Centered? Oh we are still Geocentric (I know that ain't the
word I am looking for) the world Earth is the center of the Universe after
all. There is aircraft carrier that recently joined New Sakhalin (a remade
Sakhalin after the Winternight Wars we had here recently) as part of the
Citycorp(SR-TM) resource move. It used to be home.
So, there ya go....a run down of the group as it stands and where they are at
(sort of). We're gaining two new players and a whole new game timeslot for
the week (at least for a while), so who knows what is gonna happen to us
now...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:06:47 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: How much down time?
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In a message dated 5/7/98 8:18:50 AM US Eastern Standard Time, Airwasp@***.COM
writes:
> In a message dated 5/7/98 6:31:18 AM !!!First Boot!!!, nesius@******.COM
> writes:
>
> > Questions for the list:
> > How much downtime do your characters usually have between runs?
> Normally a week in between games, though after some of the "larger" runs,
I'
> ll
> extend it even longer, such as a three week downtime for last Sunday's
game.
Oh yeah, prove me wrong...I forgot about the 3 week downtime thing.
> > How many runs per game year do your groups fit in?
> 20 to 30.
I've done the Math Mike, I think you should rethink...but, then again, the
definition of a "run" still varies...
> > What is the average grade of initiacy that your magically actives
attain?
> 8+
Oh yeah, here we go (grabbing the "holy-than-thou-flame-shields")
> > How about average skill rating. ie: Lots of sixes and higher? Sixes and
> > lower?
> 6-10's
Believe it or not, with Gron and Jazz, the actual average is a 5 ATM. As I
said, ignoring the higher end stuff....
> > Just trying to get a feel for where people are at. Probably all over
> > the map, but I'd appreciate your input on this.
> All over the world.
>
> > Thanks,
> > -Rob
> You are welcome Rob, I wish I could have been playing with you guys so many
> years ago.
> Mike
Withholding Commentary...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:04:13 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Vehicle Economy (was RE: What is a CF?)
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----------
> From: Ojaste,James [NCR] <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Vehicle Economy (was RE: What is a CF?)
> Date: Thursday, May 07, 1998 7:26 AM
>
> Ereskanti wrote:
> >I'm still trying to figure out where a man-sized or smaller rotor drone
> >fits 120 liters of fuel.
> >-=-=-=-=-
> [snip]
> >As for the fuel, yeah, the numbers don't match quite right, i know...we
> >argued
> >out compressed fuel tanks (which I once made rules for...Wordman, if you
read
> >this, do you still have those as well? They were in the Nagee back when
> >Chris
> >did them)....
>
> Well, 120 liters of fuel is 1.5m x 20cm x 40cm - which will fit into
> a man-sized drone with a little effort. You could hang a 0.125m^3 box
> but it would be pretty heavy (assuming gasoline, it'd mass 0.7 kg/L =
> 87.5 kg).
>
Okay, then how about this one:
Throughout the chassis/engine rules, they seem to forget about small/micro
rotordrones (the kind that fit into the palm of your hand). That's the
only way I can reason that under one of the fuel entries, the list that all
rotor drones can carry that same 120 liters of fuel. From the micro to the
mansized. And within that drone, would there be room for the engine, the
sensors, that CF of cargo space that you allegedly have, and any other
goodies that would come standard?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:09:07 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Cyberware Power Sources (Was Re: Cyberware: Where do you put
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In a message dated 5/7/98 8:21:29 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
czregbrt@*********.EDU writes:
> > That makes me think about an evolution of SR world... Magic drains
energies
> > from astral quite easily and with great potential. If you magic and
> > technological devices to harvest those energies, that can give you great
> > possibilities.
>
> didn't they talk about thin in one of the orrigonal sourcebooks? I seem to
> remember a post about a powerplant that tried to use a locked physiacl
> manipulation with the electrical elemental effect to creat "free power",
> but failed because of astral pollution. Anyone else?
>
I remember that too, but can't remember what happened. I know in the games
here we've played with the idea using specially redesigned Telekinetic
Manipulations to spin the turbines of an electrical generator. Combine that
with an Anchoring / Quickening sort of thing, I can see it working okay.
the problem IMO comes in when some "keep the magic pure" terrorist group comes
along and attempts grounding magic to destroy the sites where stuff like this
happens...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:11:15 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Shadowrun Math
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Given that I'm likely to fail algebra this semester, I find it hard to
believe that I'm doing this post but:
X = Shadowrun
Y = Fantasy Elements (Magic, Dragons, Trolls, etc.)
Z = Cyberpunk Elements (Cyberware, Gritty Future)
A = Realism
A+Y+Z=X
A+Z=/=X
Or, to put it in ecological terms, if you take an environment and take
away all the caterpillars, you can't come back in a year and have the same
environment minus caterpillars. Everything would have to adapt to not
having its food source or what fed on it, and this would change the
environment. Would it be really similar? Most likely. Would it be the
same? No.
***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
"Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn lasts
forever"
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
"Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo the
better part of humor."
aka Ellegon, Working at making Cannon canon
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are crunchy
and good with ketchup."
--------[Geek Code Block]-----------
GED/GSS d- s++:+ a-- C++ W w+ PS+.5 PE- Y+ t+
5+ X+ R*+.5 !tv+ b+.5 DI+ D- G e h !r-- !y+
-------[End Geek Code Block]-------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:15:29 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
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David Buehrer wrote:
>/ >But isn't language used to symbolically represent a world that's
>/ >perceived abstractly?
>/
>/ Perceived abstractly? I don't quite follow...
>
>Sorry :) I was remembering my highschool days when we discovered
>metaphysics and had long debates about nothing, and subsequently
>wrote a sentance that bordered on being metaphysical.
We usually had debates about theoretical physics... :-)
>However, I will try to explain.
>
>I can look out the window and see a parking lot that has automobils
>parked in it. Most of the autos are cars, with an SUV and a couple
>of minivans. There're a wide variety of cars: two door, four door,
>sport, sedan, etc. There're also a wide variaty of manufactures:
>Saturn, Ford, VW, Honda, Chevy, Toyota, etc (the Fords seem to be in
>the majority).
>
>When using a word such as auto, it's easy to see that it symbolically
>describes an abstract idea. There really is no such thing as an
>auto per se, and yet there is in the eye of the beholder.
Ah. So you mean that the descriptions of "auto" is an abstraction
for what's there. I've got a problem with this ("description" as
opposed to "perception"), but we'll get to that in a minute...
>The word car also symbolizes and abstract perception. A VW Fox GL
>can be percieved as a car. A Ford Probe can be percieved as a car.
>
>You'd think that when you get down to the level of Ford Probe that
>you are no longer percieving abstractly. But you are. Think about
>everything that that perception represents (depending on who you
>are): sports car, fast, agile, two seater, babe magnet, middle aged
>pacifier, etc.
>
>It's not possible to not percieve something abstractly.
Ah. Here I disagree. When somebody perceives something, they cannot
possibly perceive everything about it. We can't *know* everything
about it. Therefore, our perception is incomplete - but not
necessarily abstract.
>On a biological level your eye first interprets the light that is
>reflected off of objects. Your brain then interprets this
>interpretation. You then assign values to the interpretation. Is a
>Ford Probe first and foremost a sports car? Or do you view it as a
>babe magnet? Or is it something that middle aged men by to reclaim
>their lost youth? Or is it just a car? Or is it a conglomeration of
>seperate machines engineered to combine their functions to produce an
>end result?
It takes more and more processing power to recognize finer details
in what you observe. In a blink, you can probably recognize it as
"an object I don't want to run into". A little more time, and it
becomes "a car". A little more time, "a sports car", some more time,
"a Ford Probe".
As this is going on, at each stage your mind is grabbing memories,
comparing sensations etc to a) figure out what the object is and b)
figure out what use it is. So the act of perception involves both
recognition and analysis. The analysis bit may well include
"babe-magnet", but also "fast transport" and "expensive".
>Whether you're reading or listening, you're interpreting abstract
>symbols to interpret someone else's abstract perception of the
>world. And when you communicate with someone you are attempting to
>share your abstract perception of the world with that person by using
>abstract symbols to define those perceptions.
This is a pretty rough way of trying to communicate what you mean -
I'm pretty sure I understand you only because I've thought a fair
bit about the nature of reality and you're describing what amounts
to 4 reality shifts... If you really care about what I'm talking
about, look at http://ojaste.ml.org/~ojastej/reality.html
>It's a wonder we can communicate at all :)
Heh. :-)
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:18:20 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Non-running sources of income (was Re: Talismongering)
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In a message dated 5/7/98 9:58:09 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
michael.cugley@******.NET writes:
> On the subject of security for one's enchanting adept's thriving Orichalcum
> production facitlity, what do you think High Lifestyle's for, anyway?
> Security is included in the price, as I recall...
>
>
That is correct, High Lifestyle does have -some- security...but is it the kind
of security that is more readily capable of handling a group that is out to
steal something that only a magician is likely to want that badly???
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:20:22 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
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In a message dated 5/7/98 9:58:15 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA writes:
> > It is my opinion that this is wrong, very wrong. While it may not be
> >apparent all the time, magic in Shadowrun has greatly influenced things.
> The
> >Tir Tan Gire(sp) for example would not exist, and that is a big
difference.
>
> Tir Tairngire. Why wouldn't it? You could still have IEs without
> magic - it'd just be due to high tech.
>
> >The NANs would not have been able to reclaim any territory. And, the day
to
> >day things that are not necessarily noticed would be very different.
>
> So the NAN uses nukes and assault rifles instead of volcanoes.
>
No offense folks, but the two examples that are given here have an entirely
different impact on how the world of SR would work, had they been taken.
Technology high enough to pursue out Real Immortality would be no different
IMO than some magically incurred genetic expression. And Nukes/Assault Rifles
vs. Volcanoes??? I don't know...the fallout question keeps coming to my
mind...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:58:02 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, David Buehrer wrote;
>But isn't language used to symbolically represent a world that's
>perceived abstractly?
No, "Language is a virus from outer space" - Laurie Anderson
&
>It's a wonder we can communicate at all :)
A sampled(?) quote from EBN-OZN's AEIOU sometimes Y ?
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
"When _I_ use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful
tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."
-Through the Looking Glass
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:09:53 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Ereskanti wrote:
>> > It is my opinion that this is wrong, very wrong. While it may not be
>> >apparent all the time, magic in Shadowrun has greatly influenced things.
>> The
>> >Tir Tan Gire(sp) for example would not exist, and that is a big
>difference.
>> Tir Tairngire. Why wouldn't it? You could still have IEs without
>> magic - it'd just be due to high tech.
>>
>> >The NANs would not have been able to reclaim any territory. And, the day
>to
>> >day things that are not necessarily noticed would be very different.
>> So the NAN uses nukes and assault rifles instead of volcanoes.
>>
>No offense folks, but the two examples that are given here have an entirely
>different impact on how the world of SR would work, had they been taken.
>Technology high enough to pursue out Real Immortality would be no different
>IMO than some magically incurred genetic expression. And Nukes/Assault
>Rifles
>vs. Volcanoes??? I don't know...the fallout question keeps coming to my
>mind...
My point was that the *elements* of the story, like "NAN secedes
from the US" or "a weird 'elven' nation secedes from the NAN"
could have been produced using other special effects. I don't
think that SR without magic would be SR - but much of the history
wouldn't necessarily change. The reason that I think that magic
is required in SR is the flavour of the universe - you never know
what to expect, weird stuff is going on all around, you have to
be quick on your feet to avoid stepping on your jaw.
In short, it makes the world more mysterious, leads to interesting
situations (Saeder-Krupp may have formed on its own, but to be
personally visited by Lofwyr is a different matter!), etc.
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:11:37 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
In-Reply-To: <199805071701.LAA22717@******.carl.org> from "MC23" at May
7,
98 12:58:02 pm
Content-Type: text
MC23 wrote:
/
/ Once upon a time, David Buehrer wrote;
/
/ >But isn't language used to symbolically represent a world that's
/ >perceived abstractly?
/
/ No, "Language is a virus from outer space" - Laurie Anderson
:) I'd say that language is a virus from inner space.
/ &
/ >It's a wonder we can communicate at all :)
/
/ A sampled(?) quote from EBN-OZN's AEIOU sometimes Y ?
Um, no. At least I don't think so. I thought it was a line from some
movie.
/
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
/
/ "When _I_ use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful
/ tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."
/ -Through the Looking Glass
Now *that* book plays with language.
-David
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:22:54 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sheldon Rose <scrose@****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
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David Buehrer wrote:
>
> Nexx wrote:
> /
> / ----------
> / > From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
> /
> / > But Shadowrun would still be
> / > Shadowrun if it didn't have magic, it would just be different.
> /
> / Adam, I respect your work on this list greatly, but that has got to be
> / the most moronic phrase in the entire English Language, and likely quite a
> / few others. X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
> / different.
>
> But isn't language used to symbolically represent a world that's
> perceived abstractly?
>
> And if you'll look closely the top of an X looks like the top of a
> Y. So a Y is a different looking X, and vice versa. So from one
> viewpoint, "X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
> different." works.
>
> Just because your perspective is different then Adam's doesn't make
> Adam's perspective any less significant.
In what turned into a rather heated flame war some weeks ago. I got
about the same results as Adam did by making a statement that many
misunderstood. My campaign is very magical tech is even down played to
some extent. Then again so is major mojo street level folks don't have
access to some of this stuff.
The big question is Would it be SR without all the parts IMO no. The
game would become nothing more than a 2nd rate clone of other games. In
this case no high tech and cyber toys it becomes World of darkness (The
white Wolf games) and conversely without magic it's a of clone CP2020.
While I like those other games and even use ideas form them every now
and then in SR IMO it's more fun than other of the other games in many
ways.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:28:40 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Non-running sources of income (was Re: Talismongering)
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----------
> From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Non-running sources of income (was Re: Talismongering)
> Date: Thursday, May 07, 1998 9:18 AM
>
> In a message dated 5/7/98 9:58:09 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
> michael.cugley@******.NET writes:
>
> > On the subject of security for one's enchanting adept's thriving
Orichalcum
> > production facitlity, what do you think High Lifestyle's for, anyway?
> > Security is included in the price, as I recall...
> >
> >
> That is correct, High Lifestyle does have -some- security...but is it the
kind
> of security that is more readily capable of handling a group that is out
to
> steal something that only a magician is likely to want that badly???
>
I have two words to go along with that:
Gang background.
One of the few mages I ever ran I got the gang background, and my GM let me
populate it with the "wiz kid mage" contact... the ones with a magic
attribute of three. It was one of those, "You're hired to protect X, but
no matter what you do, X dies." Adventures. It was a published one, so
someone on here has probably been on the same adventure.
Anyway, the gang was really handy. Helping out with ritual sendings of a
special spell I called "rotting curse" (I had a whole Cthulhu mythos going
with this guy), keeping an eye on stuff for a few hundred nuyen. If you
had luxury lifestyle and let them stay with you when they weren't keeping
watch for you, you'd have a pretty handy magical security force.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:32:22 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <neon@******.BACKBONE.OLEMISS.EDU>
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:51 AM 5/7/98 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:
>Nexx wrote:
>/
>/ ----------
>/ > From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
>/
>/ > But Shadowrun would still be
>/ > Shadowrun if it didn't have magic, it would just be different.
>/
>/ Adam, I respect your work on this list greatly, but that has got
to be
>/ the most moronic phrase in the entire English Language, and likely quite a
>/ few others. X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
>/ different.
Wow, I've seen some trolls in my time, but that was one of the more
annoying.
Mike Broadwater
Member of the Blackhand and Dwarven Illuminati
http://www.olemiss.edu/~neon/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:53:40 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the
In-Reply-To: <199805071350.HAA12642@******.carl.org> from "Ojaste,James
[NCR]"
at May 7, 98 09:51:32 am
Content-Type: text
Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote:
/
/ >You know what the sad thing is? There are plenty of people on this list
/ >who simply have no recollection of living like that, who only know about
/ >the Cold War from books and school. Some of us geezers actually grew up
/ >with the spectre of the Red Menance and Global Thermonuclear War.
Oh my god. I'm old enough to experience a generation gape <shock>.
/ Heh - I remember watching WarGames for the first time. Back then
/ my computer was a C64 and I was still disgusted by how *stupid*
/ the movie was.
The computers that are represented in movies become obsolete in the
year it takes to edit the movie. I saw My Best Friend's Wedding
recently and cringed when an email program that was used looked out
of place.
<grin> It used to be that people would pick up on the fact that the
character was driving last year's car, or wearing last years
fashion. Now we pick up on the fact that a character is using last
year's computer.
Here's a fun run. The runners are hired by a movie producer to steal
the latest in home computer technology from Fuchi so that a scene in
his movie won't be out of place when the movie is actually shown.
-David
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:53:34 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alexia Silverstein <alexia_silverstein@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
You're only 25 and you feel old? I'm almost 20, but geeze! I'm usually
the youngest in our Shadowrun group, sometimes second youngest, but no
one minds or cares about each others age really just as long as they
want to play and have fun (it's not a very big group). I think I'll
start feeling old when I have great grand children. My grandmother
(untill she had her stroke) used to hang out with me and my (at the
time)teen aged friends and she was the life of the party! At 70
something! It's all in how you look at it. I intend to play RPGs
untill I can't remember what my real name is too.
http://www.sova.net/trish
Old is when you reach dad's age...
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:34:26 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alexia Silverstein <alexia_silverstein@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---MC23 <mc23@**********.COM> wrote:
>
> Once upon a time, Alexia Silverstein wrote;
>
> >But if it makes you feel any better I got my friend Cara (chick age
> >almost 14) addicted to Earthdawn.
>
> I have to ask, what is chick age almost 14 in human years?
<snip>
Cara is a young lady who is 13 and three quarters years old in human.
http://www.sova.net/trish
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:02:11 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners
In-Reply-To: <19980507175334.4019.rocketmail@******.yahoomail.com> from
"Alexia Silverstein" at May 7, 98 10:53:34 am
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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>
> You're only 25 and you feel old? I'm almost 20, but geeze! I'm usually
> the youngest in our Shadowrun group, sometimes second youngest, but no
> one minds or cares about each others age really just as long as they
> want to play and have fun (it's not a very big group). I think I'll
> start feeling old when I have great grand children. My grandmother
> (untill she had her stroke) used to hang out with me and my (at the
> time)teen aged friends and she was the life of the party! At 70
> something! It's all in how you look at it. I intend to play RPGs
> untill I can't remember what my real name is too.
>
Heh..well I'll be 23 in October, and come to think of it, I'm usually
the youngest in the group. (Of course that might be because 95% of
the people I hang out with are older....).
What the saying "Its not how old you are, but how you are old"
Seems to apply. Odd however, I figured more of the list was in their
early 20's, then there are. Hey Tinner, this would be another cool
fact for your Who's who page....age break down for the RN list.
Sigh...I'm at work, and just found out that I'm GMing tonight, and
get to finish Missing Blood (not a bad module if you clean it up a bit).
Ah well.....later.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:12:41 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lander Williams <lander@****.WAVE.CA>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the Single
Shadowrunner(t
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
><< Ah, SR1 and autosuccesses and variable staging. Hey, I bet the kiddies
> haven't ever heard of 3L1 or 5D4 damage codes, eh? Now THAT complicated
> combat.
> >>
>
>and it was a pain in the ass too! '-2 to Power Level/ +1 Wound Level and it
>makes the damage code of a Browning Max-Power with Firepower ammo....'
>personally, i was very relieved when they started using 2 as the Staging
>number for everything in SR2.
hmm... how DOES 5D4 work as a damage code?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:21:07 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
In-Reply-To: <26f114fb.35512d7c@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:41 PM 5/6/98 EDT, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-05-06 22:16:02 EDT, you write:
>
><< I've been a club boi for half my life now so I still deal with young
> uns'. Now realizing they are all too young to date makes me feel really
> ancient.
> >>
>
>it's worse thinking certain...things about them, and then finding out their
>age. you suddenly realize that you are going to Hell for the debauched
>thoughts running through your mind.
I realized this fact several years ago; I used to lifeguard at a local
waterpark. When I hit 21 I realized that the average age of the fellow
lifeguards was 16 or so and they only wanted to know me so I would buy beer
for them. *That's* the main reason I feel old. But on the other hand, I
feel too young to be dating women who actually are my age. It's not a
healthy position for the ego, let me tell you.
>>>>Is this becoming an Immortal Listmembers thread now?<<<
>
>at least it isn't Immortal Elves again. bastards....
Hehehe...
Hey, the "Respected Elders Relaxation Resort" is now open for business,
right here in sunny southern California. It's got a nice view of the
beach, doesn't have a lot of nasty smog or traffic and best of all, it's
carp-proof. Even GridSec is welcome, provided they are at least 25 years
of age and have either been on the list at some point before 1996 (not
necessarily continuous) or have been playing SR since at least SR1.
Erik J.
Resepected Elders Relaxation Resort Activites Director
"Hey, how about a game of first edition using only the Blue Book?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:22:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: How much down time?
In-Reply-To: <v03110709b17704dd295d@[204.202.55.216]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:32 PM 5/6/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Questions for the list:
>
>How much downtime do your characters usually have between runs?
Depends; it usually mirrors "real" downtime unless a multiple part run is
occurring. Then downtime in SR increases to match the real amount of time
needing to be made up.
>How many runs per game year do your groups fit in?
Depends. I'm starting a new group that will only meet twice a month; at
that rate we'll probably hit about 15 runs per year.
>What is the average grade of initiacy that your magically actives attain?
Depends on how long they survive. It usually takes a couple of months to
hit that first grade. My own PC is currently Grade 10, but he's the first
PC I created back in January 1991. And I've been GMing in recent memory,
so not much has changed in a while. Most PCs are able to get to the 2-4
zone though.
>How about average skill rating. ie: Lots of sixes and higher? Sixes and
>lower?
Again, depends. With my main PC, average would be 6 or above. Most PCs
seem to have their core skill around the 6 range, other skills in the 2-3
range.
But it really depends; Keith with his high-powered games probably has high
Initiate Grades and high Skill levels. My new group starting in a few
weeks will obviously be on the low side of things.
As usual, your mileage may vary.
Erik J.
Resepected Elders Relaxation Resort Activites Director
"Hey, how about a game of first edition using only the Blue Book?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:33:28 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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----------
> From: Lander Williams <lander@****.WAVE.CA>
> hmm... how DOES 5D4 work as a damage code?
Power of 5, does deadly damage, and you need 4 successes to move the
damage code down one level (like from Deadly to serious)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:38:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the SingleShadowrunner(t
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lander Williams wrote:
>
>><< Ah, SR1 and autosuccesses and variable staging. Hey, I bet the kiddies
>> haven't ever heard of 3L1 or 5D4 damage codes, eh? Now THAT complicated
>> combat.
[snip]
>>personally, i was very relieved when they started using 2 as the Staging
>>number for everything in SR2.
>
>hmm... how DOES 5D4 work as a damage code?
Well, it acts just like 5D, except that instead of every 2 successes
staging the damage up or down, it takes 4 successes.
So, to apply this knowledge practically, if you had a newbie runner
who wasn't very accurate with a pistol, you'd want something with
a high staging (to make it less likely that the target could stage
it away, as you'd probably get fewer successes). An expert, however,
would probably choose a weapon with a low staging on the expectation
that they'd get more successes than the opponent, and so they'd get
to stage the damage up.
It basically allows for a more intelligent choice of weapons than
"I'll grab a heavy pistol - which one doesn't matter, 'cause they're
all 9M"...
More weapon variety, more weapon personality - it's a much cooler
system and I hope that they switch back to it in SR3 (though unlikely,
I'll admit).
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:40:03 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lander Williams <lander@****.WAVE.CA>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>I liked the old rules better as well, for a bundle of reasons. Matter of
>fact, we still use the three-part variable staging rules in our campaign.
>Anyone else out there been faithful to the ole first ed. rules? =)
>
im ashamed to admit ive never even SEEN SR1.. so i dont know what the
old rule were.. if i knew them, i could comment <And possibly even
convert, if i liked them better>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 20:52:44 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
In-Reply-To: <199805071407.QAA16679@***.uio.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Fade said on 16:05/ 7 May 98...
> Heh heh heh.. I always like pro assassins using those 3L1 guns.
> They threw enough dice at you that they always got .. about 3.. more
> successes than the defender.
Yes, the low Staging actually made such guns semi-useful. In SRII anyone
stupid enough to bring a 4L weapon to a firefight where the target wears
armor deserves to get shot...
> Armor reducing power was a good idea, though, rather than automatic
> resistance successes. (Heretic, I know. I'm not *THAT* old, just 26.).
A combination of the two would work very well, I think -- keep the revised
Power Levels of SRII and the way armor works, but add in the Staging rules
of SR1.
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 20:52:44 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners or ShadowGramps
In-Reply-To: <199805071232.MAA06049@********.arthouse.ie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Martin Steffens said on 12:34/ 7 May 98...
> Grumble.. just rejoined the list after two years of absence and now
> this...
Unless I'm very mistaken, I guess this is a good time to say: "Als je 't
over de duivel hebt..."
<GridSec>
You've got a reply-to field set in your mailer which overrides that of the
list; please disable it so you won't get replies meant for the list sent
to your private address.
</GridSec>
--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:10:26 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bruce Ford <shaman@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Traveling Quiz
In-Reply-To: <199805070945.FAA12825@********.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 7 May 1998, MC23 wrote:
> Does your campaign involve travel, how often, and how far and where is it
> centered?
Every campaign that I have ever been in as a player and GM as well as
others that I have been only aware of have at some point become
international and travelled to various places around the world.
Every group I have ever GM'd has started small, whichever city they were
based out of but eventually the players opted to move around and did so.
They liked to travel and they (the players) do have a say in what
direction any campaign heads.
Bruce Ford aka Rendar, the educated Ork Street Samurai.
"The Shadows are your friend. Intelligence, your ally. Negotiation, your
companion. Violence, your lover...but frag, chaos is your wife!"
-Summary of the run's results to a Johnson.
E-mail: shaman@*******.com ICQ#: 4804267
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:01:23 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael Broadwater <neon@******.BACKBONE.OLEMISS.EDU>
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>At 07:51 AM 5/7/98 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:
>>Nexx wrote:
>>/
>>/ ----------
>>/ > From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
>>/
>>/ > But Shadowrun would still be
>>/ > Shadowrun if it didn't have magic, it would just be different.
>>/
>>/ Adam, I respect your work on this list greatly, but that has got
to be
>>/ the most moronic phrase in the entire English Language, and likely quite a
>>/ few others. X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
>>/ different.
>
>Wow, I've seen some trolls in my time, but that was one of the more
>annoying.
Don't you hate it when you snip to much?
"And if you'll look closely the top of an X looks like the top of a
Y. So a Y is a different looking X, and vice versa. So from one
viewpoint, "X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
different." works."
Is what I was refering to. And, to clarify my point, while David meant
this as humor (I think), this is illogical, and he knows it (or should).
The only possible reason you make an arguement like this is to get people
to keep arguing. The cake analogy makes more sense. I'd like to see
anyone get through a math or logic course using the previous statement.
Mike Broadwater
Member of the Blackhand and Dwarven Illuminati
http://www.olemiss.edu/~neon/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:08:01 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 5/7/98 1:53:05 PM US Eastern Standard Time, gurth@******.NL
writes:
> > Armor reducing power was a good idea, though, rather than automatic
> > resistance successes. (Heretic, I know. I'm not *THAT* old, just 26.).
>
> A combination of the two would work very well, I think -- keep the revised
> Power Levels of SRII and the way armor works, but add in the Staging rules
> of SR1.
>
I've been thinking about doing this for a while, or at least trying to
convince Mike to do it. But, I think we'd be doubly nasty and keep the SRII
Power Levels for weapons, but bring back the SRI damage stagings...(g)
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:16:11 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980507111153.089f62d2@****.fbiz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
On 7 May 98 at 14:21, Erik Jameson wrote:
> Hey, the "Respected Elders Relaxation Resort" is now open for
> business, right here in sunny southern California. It's got a nice
> view of the beach, doesn't have a lot of nasty smog or traffic and
> best of all, it's carp-proof. Even GridSec is welcome, provided
> they are at least 25 years of age and have either been on the list
> at some point before 1996 (not necessarily continuous) or have been
> playing SR since at least SR1.
Even me?
I promise to leave my jack-boots at the door. :)
--
=================================================================
-DREKHEAD- drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
==================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:14:41 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: SR1 vs. SR2
In-Reply-To: <011101bd79e3$ba11aea0$0101a8c0@********.wave.shaw.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:12 PM 5/7/98 -0600, you wrote:
>>and it was a pain in the ass too! '-2 to Power Level/ +1 Wound Level and it
>>makes the damage code of a Browning Max-Power with Firepower ammo....'
>>personally, i was very relieved when they started using 2 as the Staging
>>number for everything in SR2.
>
>
>hmm... how DOES 5D4 work as a damage code?
As I recall from the back of SR2 BBB, 5D4 would be translated as 7D. A 3L1
would become 2L.
See, the four was the staging number; instead needing two succcess to stage
something up or down, in the case of 5D4 you would need *four* successes.
What's harder to get, two successes at TN7, or four success at TN5?
Without knowning math as well as I should, but I would think it turns out
to be roughly the same (5D4 and 7D). What really threw things off was that
armor, instead of reducing the TN to resist as in SR2, instead gave you
automatic successes. So your armor jacket gave you *five* automatic
successes against anything ballistic. So with that 3L1 light pistol, the
attacker *had* to roll oodles of successes, because the target with an
armor jacket had a head start of five successes going for him. And that
didn't factor in the Body resistance or the use of the SR1 pools, which was
also different from SR2.
The reason why I didn't like it was that you had to know an extra number
for all damage and drain codes. It wasn't a huge problem, but it wasn't as
clean or as elegant as the standard staging of two for SR2. And SR1
physads with autosuccesses with melee attacks were just hell-on-wheels;
hardly anybody could beat one in melee. Of course, in SR2 physads are a
bit wimpy for my taste, so I'm hoping they will be powered up in SR3.
Erik J.
Resepected Elders Relaxation Resort Activites Director
"Hey, how about a game of first edition using only the Blue Book?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:15:13 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: ILs
In-Reply-To: <199805071339.HAA12376@******.carl.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:39 AM 5/7/98 -0600, you wrote:
>/ Is this becoming an Immortal Listmembers thread now?
>/
>/ Damn IL's are behind everything!
>
>Yes, yes we are ;)
>
>(Think about it.)
Please, please don't do that again. I nearly starting laughing out loud in
the middle of the office. As is was, one of the people walking by couldn't
understand why I had this huge idiot grin on my face and silently chuckling.
But it probably is true David. It's probably true.
Erik J.
Buying more grenades, are we?
Resepected Elders Relaxation Resort Activites Director
"Hey, how about a game of first edition using only the Blue Book?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:16:23 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun without magic?
In-Reply-To: <40bee567.3551caea@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:53 AM 5/7/98 EDT, TalonMail wrote:
>There have been many posts and speculations on the list recently to the
effect
>that "FASA is reducing/removing magic from Shadowrun." Speaking as the guy
who
>is hard at work on the Magic chapter for Shadowrun 3 and what will
probably be
>the largest Magic Sourcebook Shadowrun has ever seen, I have to tell you that
>nothing could be further from the truth.
Yippee! Hey Steve, any vague ideas of when that Big Book O'Magic might
possibly be in our grubby little hands? I'm drooling over that.
>There is an effort to balance the fantasy elements with more technology,
>politics, corporate action, and such. As people have pointed out, there was a
>point where every major event in the Sixth World was triggered by a
>spirit/dragon/immortal elf, and that took away from the other things that are
>cool about Shadowrun, like the Matrix, cybertech, the corps and all that
other
>stuff. Products like Cyberpirates and Blood in the Boardroom are addressing
>that.
I'm hoping that this balancing act will continue on with SR3; I'm expecting
it in fact. Mike seems to have gone through an awful lot of trouble to get
tings moving in this direction and I would hate for it to be blown
off-course by something.
>I'm disappointed by the number of folks who think FASA isn't heading in the
>right direction with Shadowrun. I've been very proud to work with Mike on the
>game in the past few years. If you do feel SR is going the wrong way, all I
>can tell you is to fill out your product response cards and let FASA know
what
>you like and what you don't like. And, as Bull pointed out, send in a product
>proposal or two.
Actually, Steve, I think it's mostly just your normal bitchin' and moanin'
that is common on any list. I think most people are generally happy with
what FASA is doing, but I think that there are those that are nervous about
what will happen next. IE's and the like are being pushed back to the
background; will FASA stop in time to prevent them from being totally
eliminated from canon? That's the worry methinks.
>Okay, back to work on the magic stuff.
<sound of whip crack>
Get back to work MagicBoy!
</sound of whip crack>
BTW, Steve, do you know the status on the new addition to the Mulvihill
family?
The last time we heard big non-game news out of FASA it was the death of
Nigel; I think many of us here would like to congratulate Mike and Sharon
on a more happy occassion for FASA. I already did, sneaking it into
another e-mail I sent him.
Hey, maybe we could do like what we did with Nigel and have Adam send a
"list card," an e-mail expressing our congratulations from the entire list
in one e-mail.
Put my name on the "e-card" anyway.
Erik J.
Resepected Elders Relaxation Resort Activites Director
"Hey, how about a game of first edition using only the Blue Book?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:28:20 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Vagabond <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: How much down time?
Content-Type: text/plain
>Questions for the list:
>
>How much downtime do your characters usually have between runs?
Sometimes it's a 3 days, or can be up to 3 months. Depending on my
mood, the weather, the state of the world, etc..
Usually, though, I give them enough time to heal from their
wounds... usually <EGMG>
>
>How many runs per game year do your groups fit in?
Depends on the first question. :) To be honest, I never really
counted...
>
>What is the average grade of initiacy that your magically actives
attain?
Since my group is about as magically active as Madator, there are
only a couple of characters my PCs have that they have kept long enough
to initiate(they make mages in Assets, Inc look like salty vetrans). I
think none of them are above Grade 1 or 2.
>
>How about average skill rating. ie: Lots of sixes and higher? Sixes
and
>lower?
SInce like to keep my games low-power, nothing usually goes higher
than six, some of the higher karma characters have one or two 8s, but
that's rare.
>
>Just trying to get a feel for where people are at. Probably all over
>the map, but I'd appreciate your input on this.
LIke I said, I like to keep my PCs low-power(I'm *extremely*
anti-munchkin to the point of paranoia<g>). Usually if a PC makes the
100 karma mark, I tell them it's time to think about retirement.
However, after talkin to some folks on the list and IRC, I'm thinkin
about extending that mark just to see what happens.
-Vagabond
"Under wandering stars I've grown"
________________________________________________________
<nomad74@*******.com> <ICQ 4297972>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:33:09 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Traveling Quiz
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, Ereskanti wrote;
>I'm bored, don't have to work today, so I'm gonna take up MC23's "Poll" for
>the fun of it.
<dripping sarcasm>
Oh thank you
</dripping sarcasm>
Maybe I should have questioned power level as well. Being able to go
head to head (more or less) with IE's hardly falls within the standard
scope of most campaigns and I couldn't imagine one such as yours limited
to one city anyway.
Now with that out of the way, how many of the traditional street
level campaigns involve travel?
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:39:55 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Michael Broadwater wrote:
>>Wow, I've seen some trolls in my time, but that was one of the more
>>annoying.
>
>Don't you hate it when you snip to much?
>
>"And if you'll look closely the top of an X looks like the top of a
>Y. So a Y is a different looking X, and vice versa. So from one
>viewpoint, "X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
>different." works."
>
>Is what I was refering to. And, to clarify my point, while David meant
>this as humor (I think), this is illogical, and he knows it (or should).
>The only possible reason you make an arguement like this is to get people
>to keep arguing. The cake analogy makes more sense. I'd like to see
>anyone get through a math or logic course using the previous statement.
Heh - one of the things that I learned in my logic courses at UW
was that you can build logical systems to prove whatever you want.
It's just a matter of choosing appropriate axioms to derive the
rest of the system from, and then convincing everybody that those
were the right axioms to choose... :-)
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:37:36 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: ILs
In-Reply-To: <199805071923.NAA00492@******.carl.org> from "Erik Jameson"
at
May 7, 98 03:15:13 pm
Content-Type: text
Erik Jameson wrote:
/
/ At 07:39 AM 5/7/98 -0600, you wrote:
/
/ >/ Is this becoming an Immortal Listmembers thread now?
/ >/
/ >/ Damn IL's are behind everything!
/ >
/ >Yes, yes we are ;)
/ >
/ >(Think about it.)
/
/ Please, please don't do that again. I nearly starting laughing out loud in
/ the middle of the office. As is was, one of the people walking by couldn't
/ understand why I had this huge idiot grin on my face and silently chuckling.
:) Sorry 'bout that. You think you've got it bad, my desk faces all
of my employees (kinda like a classroom). Every now and then I
realize that I've had a stupid grin on my face for at least five
minutes because of something I'm reading from ShadowRN. My employees just
think I'm a happy guy :)
/ Buying more grenades, are we?
By the truckload.
-David
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:41:05 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
In-Reply-To: <199805071902.NAA29547@******.carl.org> from "Michael
Broadwater"
at May 7, 98 02:01:23 pm
Content-Type: text
Michael Broadwater wrote:
/
/ >At 07:51 AM 5/7/98 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:
/
/ Don't you hate it when you snip to much?
/
/ >"And if you'll look closely the top of an X looks like the top of a
/ >Y. So a Y is a different looking X, and vice versa. So from one
/ >viewpoint, "X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
/ >different." works."
/
/ Is what I was refering to. And, to clarify my point, while David meant
/ this as humor (I think), this is illogical, and he knows it (or should).
/ The only possible reason you make an arguement like this is to get people
/ to keep arguing. The cake analogy makes more sense. I'd like to see
/ anyone get through a math or logic course using the previous statement.
Sorry. Wasn't meant to be a troll. Although James and I are in a
lively private conversation :)
And my defense would be that I've been getting into philosophy quite
a bit lately.
-David
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:43:02 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, Erik Jameson wrote;
>The reason why I didn't like it was that you had to know an extra number
>for all damage and drain codes. It wasn't a huge problem, but it wasn't as
>clean or as elegant as the standard staging of two for SR2. And SR1
>physads with autosuccesses with melee attacks were just hell-on-wheels;
>hardly anybody could beat one in melee. Of course, in SR2 physads are a
>bit wimpy for my taste, so I'm hoping they will be powered up in SR3.
I could never accept that the variable staging didn't hinder you
while it helped you. Sure a staging 4 was a bitch to save down but it was
just as much hell to stage up! What's the use in that? When 2nd edition
came out we were happy. Only the Karma Pool would later become our bane
(and we even award Karma sparingly when compared to others).
>Respected Elders Relaxation Resort Activities Director
>
>"Hey, how about a game of first edition using only the Blue Book?"
First printing hardback or 3rd printing perfect bound?
B>]#
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:49:06 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Gurth wrote:
>> Armor reducing power was a good idea, though, rather than automatic
>> resistance successes. (Heretic, I know. I'm not *THAT* old, just 26.).
>
>A combination of the two would work very well, I think -- keep the revised
>Power Levels of SRII and the way armor works, but add in the Staging rules
>of SR1.
This sounds like a net.project - converting all the new goodies over
to SR1 damage codes...
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:46:26 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Traveling Quiz
In-Reply-To: <199805071936.NAA01074@******.carl.org> from "MC23" at May
7,
98 03:33:09 pm
Content-Type: text
MC23 wrote:
/
/ Now with that out of the way, how many of the traditional street
/ level campaigns involve travel?
Mine is kinda 50/50. I'll run a home game, followed by an away game, and
then back home again, not necessarily in that order :)
To date the away games have been in: NYC, a run involving a
continental run across North America, an island north of Norway, Tir
Na Og (Celtic Doublecross), Chicago, and Denver.
I like the away adventures because it takes the runners off their
home turf and shakes them up. Sure, in Seattle everything is peaches
and cream (respectivley). Send em to another city and they've gotta
be quick thinkers.
In the future they'll be going to Hawaii and Washington DC.
-David
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:48:40 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
In-Reply-To: <199805071939.NAA01286@******.carl.org> from "Ojaste,James
[NCR]"
at May 7, 98 03:39:55 pm
Content-Type: text
Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote:
/
/ Michael Broadwater wrote:
/ >>Wow, I've seen some trolls in my time, but that was one of the more
/ >>annoying.
/ >
/ >Don't you hate it when you snip to much?
/ >
/ >"And if you'll look closely the top of an X looks like the top of a
/ >Y. So a Y is a different looking X, and vice versa. So from one
/ >viewpoint, "X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
/ >different." works."
/ >
/ >Is what I was refering to. And, to clarify my point, while David meant
/ >this as humor (I think), this is illogical, and he knows it (or should).
/ >The only possible reason you make an arguement like this is to get people
/ >to keep arguing. The cake analogy makes more sense. I'd like to see
/ >anyone get through a math or logic course using the previous statement.
/
/ Heh - one of the things that I learned in my logic courses at UW
/ was that you can build logical systems to prove whatever you want.
/ It's just a matter of choosing appropriate axioms to derive the
/ rest of the system from, and then convincing everybody that those
/ were the right axioms to choose... :-)
Or in my case, plain old Xioms :-D
-David-who's-agoin-straight-to-hell-for-that-one
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:50:11 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Hedley <hedley@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Farts Club
In-Reply-To: <l03110703b176ec5e6b28@[100.100.100.10]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hedley - Age: 34 years. Three daughters; ages 15, 14, and 14 months. No
wonder I have so little time for gaming anymore...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:13:40 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <runefo@***.uio.no>
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Organization: The University of Oslo
Subject: Re: How much down time?
In-Reply-To: <21a16bef.3551b46c@***.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> > Questions for the list:
> >
> > How much downtime do your characters usually have between runs?
Varies. Lately about two weeks, but they're in a 'long haul
continuous assignment' at the moment, so it'll be as soon as they're
back on their feet.
> > How many runs per game year do your groups fit in?
Varies. A lot. Between 10 and 50, I'd say. Depends what you mean with
a run as well.
> > What is the average grade of initiacy that your magically actives attain?
*ponder*
1
(The only really long campaign the runners were in, there was no
mages.).
> > How about average skill rating. ie: Lots of sixes and higher? Sixes and
> > lower?
1 at 7+,
the rest at 3 or 6.
(3-4 skills at 6, 0-3 at 3 is common.).
(Discounting physad skills).
> > Just trying to get a feel for where people are at. Probably all over
> > the map, but I'd appreciate your input on this.
Physically we're located in Norway. The characters are in Seattle
(Of course) but sometimes goes to other places.
--
Fade
And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:56:13 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lander Williams <lander@****.WAVE.CA>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the SingleShadowrunner(t
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>hmm... how DOES 5D4 work as a damage code?
>
>Well, it acts just like 5D, except that instead of every 2 successes
>staging the damage up or down, it takes 4 successes.
>
>So, to apply this knowledge practically, if you had a newbie runner
>who wasn't very accurate with a pistol, you'd want something with
>a high staging (to make it less likely that the target could stage
>it away, as you'd probably get fewer successes). An expert, however,
>would probably choose a weapon with a low staging on the expectation
>that they'd get more successes than the opponent, and so they'd get
>to stage the damage up.
after i posted i sorta figured it, tho the confirmation doe much for my
poor ego :)
>It basically allows for a more intelligent choice of weapons than
>"I'll grab a heavy pistol - which one doesn't matter, 'cause they're
>all 9M"...
<nods> i dont really like that.. boring :)
>More weapon variety, more weapon personality - it's a much cooler
>system and I hope that they switch back to it in SR3 (though unlikely,
>I'll admit).
i like it.. ill have to dig up stuff on it (i.e. weapon charts)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:58:07 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
In-Reply-To: <199805071944.PAA12371@******.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
On 7 May 98 at 15:43, MC23 wrote:
> I could never accept that the variable staging didn't hinder you
> while it helped you. Sure a staging 4 was a bitch to save down but
> it was just as much hell to stage up! What's the use in that?
That brings back a memory. I friend of mine who I was trying to get
interested in Shadowrun brought up the same point. We argued forever
about that. The way I see it, is that a high staging typically
equalizes the damage at its base value. A weapon with a low staging
slides up and down more easily, so is more variable.
I still prefer the variety of variable staging, but I do understand
why they changed it.
> When 2nd edition came out we were happy. Only the Karma Pool would later
> become our bane (and we even award Karma sparingly when compared to
> others).
Yes. I couldn't get him to play until SR2 came out. I didn't tell him
I was still using SR1 Karma rules, though. :)
--
=================================================================
-DREKHEAD- drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
==================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 21:58:41 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <runefo@***.uio.no>
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Organization: The University of Oslo
Subject: Re: Shadowrun without magic?
In-Reply-To: <40bee567.3551caea@***.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Shit that one wasn't supposed to go to the list.
Sorry guys.
--
Fade
And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 21:57:56 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <runefo@***.uio.no>
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Organization: The University of Oslo
Subject: Re: Shadowrun without magic?
In-Reply-To: <40bee567.3551caea@***.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> Okay, back to work on the magic stuff.
>
> Take care,
> Steve
For my part it seemed Shadowrun was heading towards 'Earthdawn 2060'
which, in my opinion, wasn't good at all. I prefer the 'corporate',
darker world which isn't as 'epic', but a lot more challenging.. and
satisfying.
Keep up the good work!
--
Fade
And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:08:44 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
MC23 wrote:
>>The reason why I didn't like it was that you had to know an extra number
>>for all damage and drain codes. It wasn't a huge problem, but it wasn't as
>>clean or as elegant as the standard staging of two for SR2. And SR1
>>physads with autosuccesses with melee attacks were just hell-on-wheels;
>>hardly anybody could beat one in melee. Of course, in SR2 physads are a
>>bit wimpy for my taste, so I'm hoping they will be powered up in SR3.
>
> I could never accept that the variable staging didn't hinder you
>while it helped you. Sure a staging 4 was a bitch to save down but it was
>just as much hell to stage up! What's the use in that? When 2nd edition
Well, if you expect to be able the hit the target, but not well,
then you want to make it as tough as possible for the target to
stage it down.
On the other hand, if you're really good you want a staging of 1,
so you can stage that sucker up so high that the target can't stage
it back down agin.
>came out we were happy. Only the Karma Pool would later become our bane
>(and we even award Karma sparingly when compared to others).
The KP rules need work. Lots of work.
James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:10:57 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Panther <qmilton@**.NET>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980506134113.284fbbbe@**********.com>
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>
> This was even true of magicians, though in a different way. They
> had their life pretty much taken up by being a magician. You either
> dedicated your life to it, were defined by being a magician, or you
> were not. If you were not, you might do some magic, but you'd never
> reach anything like your real potential. Obsession was not really
> optional.
That's just it. Physads, when played correctly, have the same (or at
least similar) obsession that mages have. Take a look at todays
martial artists and athletes for example. They are CONSTANTLY
training. At least the ones that are actually serious about it
(those also have a distinct tendency to be the best at what they do).
THAT is the price that physads pay, the time and effort spent in
training, to keep their bodies and minds honed to a razor sharp edge.
Take a break (or even quit) training, and they lose that edge.
And the concept of bioware actually seems kinda realistic to me. It
makes sense, IMO. :)
Pantherr
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Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:19:35 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Vehicle Economy (was RE: What is a CF?)
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>
>Throughout the chassis/engine rules, they seem to forget about
small/micro
>rotordrones (the kind that fit into the palm of your hand). That's the
>only way I can reason that under one of the fuel entries, the list that
all
>rotor drones can carry that same 120 liters of fuel. From the micro to
the
>mansized. And within that drone, would there be room for the engine,
the
>sensors, that CF of cargo space that you allegedly have, and any other
>goodies that would come standard?
>
Hey, what about it, Jon? Got some micro/mini vehicle construction rules
hanging around somewhere or being compiled for some future upcoming
release?
Tony Rabiola rabiola@**.netcom.com
Fourth and Sixth World Adept
Still working on the Fifth...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:18:50 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: How much down time?
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Once upon a time, Robert Nesius wrote;
>Questions for the list:
>
>How much downtime do your characters usually have between runs?
We have a tendancy to use a rough real time catch up method. so what ever
it takes after a story arc to catch up with current real month is how
long it takes. Easy way to keep up with seasons that way. When there is
alternating campaigns the catch up downtime can be quite a lot.
>How many runs per game year do your groups fit in?
Couldn't even guess
>What is the average grade of initiacy that your magically actives attain?
We might have had a second grade in one of the campaigns
>How about average skill rating. ie: Lots of sixes and higher? Sixes and
>lower?
I think I had a 7 once but Cavalier is no longer alive to use it.
>Just trying to get a feel for where people are at. Probably all over
>the map, but I'd appreciate your input on this.
The three different campaigns had us in either Seattle, Charlotte or New
Orleans.
I should also point out that our games here typically reward 2-3 pts of
Karma per game session. I think that puts us on the stingy side but it
works just great for us.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:12:02 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Earl ClayIII <phoenixflare@*******.COM>
Subject: Shasdowrun: Off course! (loong!)
Content-Type: text/plain
I think FASA (Mulvihill specifically) is quite a bit off lately.
Mulvihill seems to basically hate the game we all love & wants to make
all these drastic changes to make it more "his" game as opposed to
Dowd's. While he's certainly done some cool stuff, (Companion) he's also
made some choices ranging from simply a little bland (Corp War thing-
who cares?) all the way to near-disastrous (Rigger 2- so complicated it
makes riggers near unuseable). A few points:
* Magic- without it, the game is Cyberpunk with different rules, NOT
Shadowrun. The world would be nothing the same. Howling Coyote would be
in a camp, as would all the few surviving Injuns. They would NOT have
been able to get nukes or whatnot except for magic's help. Even had they
the atmosphere would be shot to hell. Same for the Tir's, Aztlan,
Saeder-Krupp, et al. Shadowrun's defining characteristic may well be the
bizarre & sinister mix of magic & machine. Quit screwing with magic,
FASA. Don't fix what ain't broken. If you find magic too powerful, step
up the competition, or tone down what mojo players get. I have played
since the day 1st ed. came out & have yet to have ONE person earn
initiation... See also the new rules for metamagic in the Companion.
* Cyber- bioware shouldn't let players off easy since it should be hell
to get, not to mention it usually has side effects. Physads pay dearly
for their power & don't get as powerful as a sam. The point is, sure
you're supposed to pay for your edge but if you handle it right, so does
everybody.
* Horrors, IE's & the Tirs, oh my!- I thought these were neat but only
in real limited quantity. They are way overused now. Ditto all the super
high level epic scale stuff. We're lousy plex rats... we have no part in
this stuff. It's only fun to deal with omnipotent stuff if you're
omnipotent enough to compete... which runners should not be.
* Non-shadowrunner campaigns- Theses are already way out of hand. Cool
as a diversion, but ultimately a distraction from the point. We really
don't need these 'other types of games' that keep pushing... can anyone
say, 'Cyberpirates'? They can't do a Japan book, but they do give us
'Blood in the Boardroom'... great.
There's my dollar ninety-fine worth... if I seem a little harsh, it's
just because I love ya Mulvihill, & I'd hate to see Shadowrun go the way
of 'Vampire"...
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:30:43 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun without magic?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>There have been many posts and speculations on the list recently to the
effect
>that "FASA is reducing/removing magic from Shadowrun." Speaking as the
guy who
>is hard at work on the Magic chapter for Shadowrun 3 and what will
probably be
>the largest Magic Sourcebook Shadowrun has ever seen, I have to tell
you that
>nothing could be further from the truth.
>
Coolness! We've already got some terrific SB's for magic the way it
is, and a big new one to go with SR3 should be a treat, if it is larger
to provide more clarifications and examples.
>FASA and Mike Mulvihill know full well that the magic/fantasy elements
of
>Shadowrun are some of the game's greatest strengths, that seperated SR
from
>all the other "cyber/dark future" RPGs. There is NO plan to remove
magic from
>SR.
>
I was thinking that was a off-hand comment that developed a life of its
own...
>There is an effort to balance the fantasy elements with more
technology,
>politics, corporate action, and such. As people have pointed out, there
was a
>point where every major event in the Sixth World was triggered by a
>spirit/dragon/immortal elf, and that took away from the other things
that are
>cool about Shadowrun, like the Matrix, cybertech, the corps and all
that other
>stuff. Products like Cyberpirates and Blood in the Boardroom are
addressing
>that.
>
Cyberpirates rocks! Just let me get those cocky PC's out on a ship
island-hopping and see how tough they are...(grin)
>I'm disappointed by the number of folks who think FASA isn't heading in
the
>right direction with Shadowrun. I've been very proud to work with Mike
on the
>game in the past few years. If you do feel SR is going the wrong way,
all I
>can tell you is to fill out your product response cards and let FASA
know what
>you like and what you don't like. And, as Bull pointed out, send in a
product
>proposal or two.
>
I think it is more to do with just change in general, Steve, though all
of us probably have particular feelings on where we would like to see
our favorite game go. Keep up the quality and listen to the consumers,
life FASA always has, and things will be fine.
>Okay, back to work on the magic stuff.
>
That's the spirit!
Tony Rabiola rabiola@**.netcom.com
Fourth and Sixth World Adept
Still working on the Fifth...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:32:15 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Panther <qmilton@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980506143404.266fa06a@****.fbiz.com>
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>
> Hey, maybe we should start an old man's club on RN, gotta be at
> least 25 or older. You could put "RN Geriatric Brigade" or
> something in your .sig and be allowed one post per thread going on
> about "back in my day, we didn't have the Internet, we had to read
> RN with smoke signals..."
Gee, in only four more years I could be a part of that.....
Pantherr
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:53:18 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: RP Karma award (was Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks))
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET> wrote:
>
> |> Subject: RP Karma award (was Re: Sex & the Single
Shadowrunner(thanks))
>
> |> > I personally dislike the RP karma award, since it's...
rewarding the
> |> > character for something the player should be doing anyway.
> |> Roleplaying is,
> |> > after all, the point of this game. It doesn't make sense for
> |> a character
> |> > to gain experience and 'luck' because he is so completely
> |> 'himself' that day.
>
> Well, I don't see it that way at all, but this is a valid
viewepoint I
> guess. I see it as a case of rewarding the PLAYER for playing his part
> correctly. If you view it as a reward to the player, rather than the
> character, then reward for staying in character makes sense. True,
as you
> say, role-playing is the point of the game, ergo it should be
encouraged and
> rewarded.
I agree whole heartedly with Katt on this one, in fact I was just
discussing this with Loki the other day. Basically a RP award is
given out on rare occasions in my group and then generally to the more
munchkinous of the group as a way to offer positive reinforcment of a
learned behavior...much like training a dog, it lets the person know
that "Hey the rest of the group thought that I did a bang up job, I
should do it some more." Over the years it has greatly enhanced the
amount of good roleplaying that we get from members of our group. I
can honestly say now, and I realize without playing with most of you
on the list, that I feel we have one of the best RP based gaming
groups in Phoenix...and of all the ones I have witnessed/played in
certainly the best regular SR game. Now I admit that this is biased
and I have by no means had direct interaction with even most of the SR
games out there, but going off of some horror stories that I have
heard and lived through myself...life is good right now and RP karma
awards helped get us there.
Caric-the-damn-I-can-run-at-the-mouth-sometimes-shaman
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 17:06:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Once upon a time, Drekhead wrote;
>Yes. I couldn't get him to play until SR2 came out. I didn't tell him
>I was still using SR1 Karma rules, though. :)
With my new campaign I've gone back as well. Karma Pools cannot be saved
IMNSHO.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:07:21 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
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----------
> From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
> > Armor reducing power was a good idea, though, rather than automatic
> > resistance successes. (Heretic, I know. I'm not *THAT* old, just 26.).
>
> A combination of the two would work very well, I think -- keep the
revised
> Power Levels of SRII and the way armor works, but add in the Staging
rules
> of SR1.
I agree (and I'm not even an old guy <g>). After all, which bullet is
going to be easier to shrug off: the hold out pistol bullet the size of
the last joint of my pinky, or the coke-can sized shell of a Panther
Cannon? Sure, that's partially damage code, but its a lot easier to miss
vital organs with a tiny shell that leaves a small hole than a huge shell
that leaves a hole the size of a basketball.
***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
"Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn lasts
forever"
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
"Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo the
better part of humor."
aka Ellegon, Working at making Cannon canon
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are crunchy
and good with ketchup."
--------[Geek Code Block]-----------
GED/GSS d- s++:+ a-- C++ W w+ PS+.5 PE- Y+ t+
5+ X+ R*+.5 !tv+ b+.5 DI+ D- G e h !r-- !y+
-------[End Geek Code Block]-------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 17:08:36 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Brian Moore <mooreb@****.FAC.COM>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980506182447.006924b0@***.mindspring.com> from
"Joshua Bell" at May 6, 98 06:24:47 pm
Content-Type: text
Joshua Bell <joshbell@**********.COM> said:
> Brian Moore wrote:
> >And yes it is a good way to make money. But there are even more abusive
> >ways to make money using Enchanting. A decent enchanter can make a Force
> >3 Power Focus in a week or two, worth around 300knY, or 90knY at 30%
> >"wholesale price". There really isn't a good way to handle PC
enchanters
> >given how easy it is to create IMHO significantly overpriced foci. IMC,
> >my mage is the only PC enchanter, and he only makes foci for the members
> >of his (PC) Initiatory group. He charges for the foci, but usually less
> >that 25% retail cost and time spent bodyguarding.
>
> I agree. there are several, make that dozens of ways to abuse the plain
> rules of shadowrun. That is why there is a GM so that there is "suspense",
> Continuity, and rules.
Agreed. And this area is definitely one that requires GM supervision.
There is simply too big of a difference between the cost to make focus and
the sale price.
> However, the example of making Orichalcum dosen't cost the mage/shaman any
> good karma, just 44,000 nuyen and 1 month. Making Foci takes time,
> materials, AND karma.
Making foci takes less time and materials, and it doesn't have to cost
Karma.
Making foci usually takes less time than Orichalcum. The absolute time
for Orichalcum is 28 days, no matter what. The base time for any focus
is 30 days, but that is devided by the number of enchanting successes.
(This is ignoring the one time cost for creating or purchasing the focus
design.) A decent enchanter making a reasonably low level focus will
usually take 1 to 2 weeks.
Making foci usually takes less materials. Orichalcum requires 4 specific
radicals (gold, silver, mercury, and copper). Availability and street
index don't exist for radicals (that's a big oversight), so the GM decides
what those numbers are. My mage ended up making half of the radicals from
refined materials because he couldn't find anyone willing to sell the
radicals. And some of those refined materials came from raw materials he
had to gather himself, because no one had any to sell. But a focus can be
made with just the material basis (a stick or a rock will do). Additional
materials (any herb, crystal, or metal radicals) help, and they are easier
to find, far cheaper, and can often be interchanged.
And the big one... Foci DO NOT require the enchanter to pay any karma. The
First Binding karma cost can be paid by the enchanter and/or the person to
receive the focus.
> So even though you can make more money by creating foci, it is a personal
> choice as to weather it is a better way.
True. The big question is whether or not the enchanter can find a steady
supply of customers interested in foci and available at a days notice
(to pay the karma cost RIGHT AFTER the item is finished). If not,
Orichalcum is a better money-maker. But find the right fixer/talismonger
with a large enough customer base, and an enchanter has it made.
--
Brian Moore, mooreb@***.com | I wrote up a nice script to truncate all News&
First Albany Corp. Sysadmin | Mail sigs that are greater than 4 lines long.
standard disclaimers apply | It is still in beta testing due to an off-by-
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 17:08:26 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
OK guys this topic is getting worn thin. It's over.
MC23, ShadowRN GridSec Vigilante
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:11:13 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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----------
> From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
> Once upon a time, Drekhead wrote;
>
> >Yes. I couldn't get him to play until SR2 came out. I didn't tell him
> >I was still using SR1 Karma rules, though. :)
>
> With my new campaign I've gone back as well. Karma Pools cannot be saved
> IMNSHO.
Can someone give me a run-down on 1st ed Karma rules? I need to find a
BBlB, it seems...
***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
"Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn lasts
forever"
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
"Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo the
better part of humor."
aka Ellegon, Working at making Cannon canon
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are crunchy
and good with ketchup."
--------[Geek Code Block]-----------
GED/GSS d- s++:+ a-- C++ W w+ PS+.5 PE- Y+ t+
5+ X+ R*+.5 !tv+ b+.5 DI+ D- G e h !r-- !y+
-------[End Geek Code Block]-------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:13:08 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Re: Tournament GMing
In-Reply-To: <19980506110341453.AAA279@*********.gj.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> I know a couple of people here have... *GRAcoughNITE*
I'm here..I'm here..I had to go to training today [my day off-CPR
and Verbal Judo]..Or I would have answered already..Well here goes..
> At 07:29 PM 5/4/98 -0400, Erik Jameson wrote these timeless words:
> >Okay, I've finally decided that I will GM Shadowrun at the San Diego Comic
> >Con.
Excellent..Keep in mind that most people's greatest fear is speaking
in front of a group..Guess what..That is exactly what you will be
doing..and this group will expect you to entertain them..Sounds
bad..but It isn't all that bad..
>Not many of you actually care, I know.
First things first..That is quite enough of the negativity..No
more..you are the GM..You must be more positive..Or your experience
will not be as great as it should..
> >...... I can GM acceptably well
> >(while I occassionaly forget rules here and there, my players love my
> >playacting of the NPCs, especially Johnny Rotten the fixer), but that's
> >almost always been a group of friends or mostly friends.
Sounds like you are qualified..You are on your way..
> >So does anyone have any advice?
Remember..you asked for it..
>>Any web pages that give pointers to this
> >sort of thing (like maybe GenCon's page)?
Here is GenCon's page:
http://www.andonunlimited.com/CONS/GEN98/index.htm
Not sure if it will be the help you hope it will but there it is
anyway..
>>Anybody actually out there GMed
> >for a tournament or convention?
Yes..I have at GenCon [FASA Tourneys] and at SunQuest..
> >I imagine I probably should have enough pre-generated PCs for everyone, in
> >a mix that's appropriate.
If you do not..you will loose most of your time ti character
generation..
>> And a pile of dice.
Yes..But be careful about lending them out as they are small and
have a tendency to walk away..
>> All the sourcebooks I'll
> >need.
Yup...But only the ones that pertain to the adventure at hand..
>> Caffiene. Several writing utensils and note paper.
Yup..and yup..
>> My GM screen
> >since I have one (I think it's actually a SR1 screen too, but I haven't
> >used it in a while; I keep forgetting it and it's not terribly important
> >anyway; I don't use much written material anyway).
A very important piece of GM equipment which I also have trouble
remembering to bring with me..I do not really use it for the
tables..It is camo for what you are doing behind it..
>> Can anyone think of
> >anything else?
I'll give more explicit suggestions at the end..
> If your lucky, you'll get a group of creative players (I think at least 75%
> of all Con Players are at least semi-decent players, in my experience...
> Unfortunately the other 25% of them make up for this :( ). And creative
> players are experts at completely trashing an adventure by doing the
> totally unexpected.
Well I thing Bull has had different experiances..I have had about 95%
good players..and 5 % bad ones..but the bad ones have been REALLY
BAD..and the good more like excellent..My biggest piece of advice
about good players..If they head off into a different direction..Let
them..everyone will have a better time..As for Bad ones..If they
start getting out of hand Players bickering and such..-put a stop to
it imediately-..Let them know that the gaming table is not the place
for that sort of behavior..if they refuse to stop and it gets
impossible to run the game..stop the game..there is no reason you
have to put up with a bunch of arses..
OK..Now for the straight poop..
1]have your adventure written and prepared well in advance of the
convention [when you are writing it keep in mind players never do the
expected and leave yourself room to maneuver the group back on
course] figure out how difficult you want the game to be and write to
that level..
2] Write your game to fill a 4 hour slot..most cons allot gaming in 4
hour chunks..So be prepared to start and finish in that amount of
time because someone else is going to want your table after you..to
this end wear a watch..If you are getting close start cutting stuff
out..
3] When you are writing try and leave the PCs lots of apparent
options..that way you lend the appearance of allowing free will when
in actuality all paths lead to the same conclusions..
4] Generate all of the PCs and have copies for the players..Most Con
gaming is for approx 6 players..If you want to allow a greater
amount of choice for the players..generate more than enough PCs and
let them choose..this way you will end up with a surprise as to the
group composition..as well as allowing for player personalities
to be expressed better with more comfortable PCs..Give each of the
PCs a short bio..and perhaps include a quick what they think of the
other PCs as well..Create characters that will be able to accomplish
the goals you have set..but create them to have to struggle a bit to
do it..no struggle no fun..Never allow outside PCs into your game
99.99% of the time they will completely unbalance the entire
game..and the last thing you need are even more surprises..
5] Know your adventure forwards and back..that way when your group
takes a weird turn you will be able to better improvise..
6] have at least a fair grasp of the rules..And don't use house
rules..if you do tell the players first thing..Personally I try and
never use any kind of house rules in the convention setting that way
everyone that is familiar with the rules will have no problem playing
in my game..
7] ham it up..If you make a fool of yourself..you will never see
these people again..so ..so what..Have fun..Go wild..if you are
getting into the game then it is a lot easier for the group to get
into it..
8] have the group introduce themselves and their character to the
group after they have read the bio..this helps break the ice a little
and helps you keep in mind who is playing what character..But
don't let this go on too long you only have 4 hours..It is also
helpful to use name tents with space for character and player names..
9] there are any number of props you may use..don't bring anything
dangerous..I use a dry erase board..my particular fav..you can pick
up some really small ones at Wal-Mart, and like stores, that pack
nicely into a suitcase..And I usually use counters from a pente' game
for PC and NPC position marking on my drawings..
10] Do your darndest to keep -all- of the players involved..make the
effort to try and drawn in players that seem to be just sitting
there..
11] Don't forget to bring your GM screen..And essential piece of
equipment..
12] FUDGE..Do not get bogged down in dice..Oh don't get me
wrong..pick up a great big handful and roll them around..but don't
feel tied to their results..do what is going to make a better
game..and will be more cinematic..After all you will not be seeing
these people again and you can afford to give them bigger breaks..You
want them to leave your table excited and gibbering about what a good
time they had..
13] skip 13 I don't like that number..
14] Much better..hmm I'm running out of off the top advice..Have a
good time yourself..if it seems like work to you your players are not
having fun either..
15] Be prepared..Yea..I know this is in here more than once..That is
because it is important..
16] Make sure you complete whatever your obligations to the
con..stuff like collecting tickets is real important to them..and if
you want to play in their sandbox you have to play by their rules..
17] When the game is done..let the players know you had a good time
and that you hope they did too..this lets them know you care about
what you are doing..and that you care that they had a good time..
Well that will have to do for now..I can't think of anything else
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
Kind of a bummer. Gettin' your butt kicked by a dead guy.
- Lt Col McQueen
Understanding is a three edged sword. - Kosh
What do Klingons dream about?
Things that would send cold chills
down your spine...It is better you
did not know.
- Major Norece to Commander Worf
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:04:04 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---MC23 <mc23@**********.COM> wrote:
>
> Once upon a time, Erik Jameson wrote;
>
> >>Maybe we should start our own rest home.
> >
> >Hey, it could be like Gurth's Stairs, but only us old folks are
allowed in.
> > We could play shuffle board and cribbage and gum our meals!
>
> Screw that "old man," I'll stay out here until the Ragnorok Of
> Flamewars finally takes me, never wavering to the end!
> B>]#
I think that MC23 was a viking berserker in a former life. :) I say
we all go senile and that way we can go on the same run over and over
and over....what was i saying?
Caric-the-*almost*-old-enough-to-join-the-home-but-thinks-there-should-be-an-acception-made-for-him-since-he's-already-lost-tongue-conrol-shaman
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:16:32 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Dice Pools
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Dice pools always seemed to be to be a way to get things that should be
part of performing an action as part of an action. After all, the only
way your Sorcery skill impacts Sorcery is through your Magic Pool, and you
Quickness has nothing to do with a skilled firefight... except through the
Combat Pool.
What I'm wondering, though, is if anyone has any other pools they
regularly use, like social pools or athletic pools described in the
Companion, and what they consist of.
***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
"Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn lasts
forever"
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
"Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo the
better part of humor."
aka Ellegon, Working at making Cannon canon
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are crunchy
and good with ketchup."
--------[Geek Code Block]-----------
GED/GSS d- s++:+ a-- C++ W w+ PS+.5 PE- Y+ t+
5+ X+ R*+.5 !tv+ b+.5 DI+ D- G e h !r-- !y+
-------[End Geek Code Block]-------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 22:04:15 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Rigger tank? [was Re : Ridreless blitzen]
In-Reply-To: <354E4046.5364@**********.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
At 04-Mai-98 wrote Wafflemeisters:
>> But this gives me a few ideas ...
>> What's the CF / cost for a full rigger tank? I think the "rigger
>> adaptation" in R2 just represents the computer systems needed to
>> interface with a VCR.
>>
> What is a "rigger tank"? The rigger does not need any special
>seating,
>etc, to rig. If he wants saftey seating, and such, those are available
>in both rigger books. If you really are ludicrously safety concious,
>rig from a "Stabilization Unit"- basic book, biotech equipment. It's
>given a weight, and I'd say it ocupies as much space as a bed or
>non-folding bench seat.
A Rigger tank was indroduced in the novel, the one with Alamis, Nightspaw=
n
IIRC
Its a tube like thing in which the rigger lays down, sudpended by gel pac=
ks
and so
to cut of all outside sensory input, the rigger can only sense and comuni=
cate
over his rig. I use this a long time in my game.
Rigger tank: cost 30000 ¥
CF 15
boni +1d6 ini, every action takes half time, complex->simp=
le
simple->1/2 simple
Avail Military
-- =
Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Did you know what a rhinoceros is?
All that is left from the unicorn.
http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 22:58:45 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Sex and the single shadowrunner?
In-Reply-To:
<cÊ%a=GOVMT.CANADA%p=GC+EC%lìNCR_EXCH2-980506135811Z-96786@***.ncr.ec.gc.ca
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 06-Mai-98 wrote Ojaste,James [NCR]:
ROTFLMAORH
>Base damage done is (Charisma)L. Every two net successes stage by
>one level. The skill used is a special skill, defaulting to Charisma
>at +2. Base TN of 2.
>I hate to do this, but nothing clarifies a new rule like an example...
>Alicia boinks Bob.
>Alicia has a Sex skill of 4, a Cha of 5 and a Will of 3.
>Bob has no Sex skill, a Cha of 3 and a Will of 5.
hmm, trying to follow this....
Cha 35 skill 20, will 4...
NASTY
>>Does that mean Barbie could kill with sex?!
>Let's see - you'd need at least 14 net successes... Of course, you'd
>have to be pretty brave to get intimate with a panther in the first
>place. Having just seen "Cat People" a couple of weeks ago I don't
>think I'd want to try... ;-)
Yes, she can and actually has....
Not in this way since she has somewhat `changed`, you can call it died.
The panther thing is over, been a Succubus/dream spirit with essence
drain power makes the killing much more easy ;-)
--
Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Did you know what a rhinoceros is?
All that is left from the unicorn.
http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:47:41 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Cyberware Power Sources
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Cyberware Power Sources (Was Re: Cyberware: Where do you put the bateries?)
(SThanatos , Wed 18:33)
> >In my musings for today I was contemplating cyberware. I wondered how all
> >of these neat little devices got the power they need to run. Does wired
> >reflexes have a battery pack? If so why isn't it listed so I as a GM can
> >rule that it shorted out at a most inoportune time <display evil_grin>.?.
<tounge in cheek>
I always assumed it drew power from its essence cost, turning essence
sustaining lifeforce into electricty directly.
</tounge in cheek>
> Standardly, neurons produce a charge of 700
> milliwatts in a non-active state.
> If this mechanism could be maginifed, it could also be a source
> of plausable and natural eletrical current.
>
It can be. Electric eels genrate very high voltagees by having many
neurun-like cells "stacked" in series, adding thier volatages like
batteries in series. Similarly, multiple "stacks" in paralel would add
amperage. Given the abiltiy to grow similar cells (easy in SR),
engenering an organized tissue to produce the proper voltages and
currents would be doable, even with TODAYS tech (guided tissue
structuring has produced primitive "liveres" with simplified filter like
structures ofintelaced blood vessels and liver tissue).
Put such an engeneered organ in a cyberlimb, route blood (or blood
filtrates) to it, and WHOLA, organic "Fuel cell battery", plus another
excuse (besides pain) for limb damage to affect the user-the limb
BLEEDS.
-Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:47:50 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)) (Erik
Jameson , Wed 19:10)
> You know what the sad thing is? There are plenty of people on this list
> who simply have no recollection of living like that, who only know about
> the Cold War from books and school. Some of us geezers actually grew up
> with the spectre of the Red Menance and Global Thermonuclear War.
What weirds me out is that the cyberpunk genre is, AFAIK, a very direct
response to the social stresses of the cold war and popular Nihilism.
Of course, the Government isn't doing recent generations any favors, and
in fact, society may be growing more towards the inequitous situations
cyberpunk explores, but I wonder- what draws people to cyberpunk fiction
and SR today? Its not the "pop" medium it was 15 years ago, when
Terminator and Max Headroom were widely accepted popular figures.
Futristic Nihilsm doesn't seem to play as broadly anymore as it once
did. Even SR's new developments seem to reflect this.
Anybody care to comment? Are older SR players a bunch of cynical
holdouts, or is there an unnoticed wave of technosavy nihilists (Marilin
Manson fans DON'T count)?
-Mongoose (old enough to visit the "home", young enough to not want to)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:10:03 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
> Date: Thursday, May 07, 1998 2:06 PM
>
> Once upon a time, Drekhead wrote;
>
> >Yes. I couldn't get him to play until SR2 came out. I didn't tell him
> >I was still using SR1 Karma rules, though. :)
>
> With my new campaign I've gone back as well. Karma Pools cannot be saved
> IMNSHO.
>
How did the 1st edition pools work? I don't even remember now.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 17:34:23 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: Munchkinism at it's finest
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Thursday, May 07, 1998 5:11 AM, MC23[SMTP:mc23@**********.COM] wrote:
> Once upon a time, Wafflemeisters wrote;
>
> > Replacing the Wires with a custom grade is out of the =
question, cost
> >wise. If it isn't, I don't want to hear about it (I'm jealous)....
>
> <snip the rest>
>
> sigh. Replacing wires is out of the question period. It's one of those
> one shot type of implantations. Didn't anybody fully read Shadowtech?
> sigh again.
>
Contradicted by the entry in Cybertechnology in which someone mentions =
that he 'had his wires pulled and replaced' (*not* a direct quote) so he =
could have a relfex trigger put in.
I don't really have a problem with the concept of removing wired =
reflexes. Nanites can just as easily 'eat' the wires as lay them down. =
It'd probably not be easy for someone to go back to living without the =
wires, (nor would it be cheap to remove them, I'd say the surgery would =
cost as much as the original installation surgery, but if someone wants =
to go down that road, be my guest).
Basically, my view on it is that the cost is prohibitive, so that's why =
all the 'war-surplus' wired-up folks show up in the shadows.
--
Ian Silvercat claims the above in the name of himself!
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:41:16 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
In-Reply-To: <199805072132.PAA06354@******.carl.org> from "Jeremy
\"Bolthy\"
Zimmerman" at May 7, 98 02:10:03 pm
Content-Type: text
Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman wrote:
/
/ > >Yes. I couldn't get him to play until SR2 came out. I didn't tell him
/ > >I was still using SR1 Karma rules, though. :)
/ >
/ > With my new campaign I've gone back as well. Karma Pools cannot be saved
/ > IMNSHO.
/
/ How did the 1st edition pools work? I don't even remember now.
The dice pools were pretty much the same. The karma rules were
significantly different. There was no karma pool. If you wanted to
re-roll or buy a success you had to *burn* karma. If you didn't have
any karma you were out of luck, so to speak.
I've since returned to the old ways myself.
-David
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:45:41 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun without magic?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980507121643.084f683e@****.fbiz.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 15:16 07/05/98 -0400, you wrote:
>At 10:53 AM 5/7/98 EDT, TalonMail wrote:
>BTW, Steve, do you know the status on the new addition to the Mulvihill
>family?
>
>Hey, maybe we could do like what we did with Nigel and have Adam send a
>"list card," an e-mail expressing our congratulations from the entire list
>in one e-mail.
Undernet #Shadowrun was probably going to be sending flowers to the FASA
offices when we heard the news. Donations gleefully accepted for this -- I
just got my phone bill. EEK!
-Adam
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:52:07 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Luken <hawke@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Dice Pools
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> What I'm wondering, though, is if anyone has any other pools they
>regularly use, like social pools or athletic pools described in the
>Companion, and what they consist of.
>
Well, in the game I run, I allow them to use the social and athletic pools,
with dice equal to skill. Can't recall if this is what it says in the SC or
not...
IceHawke
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:56:10 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun without magic?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----------
> From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Shadowrun without magic?
> Date: Thursday, May 07, 1998 2:45 PM
>
> At 15:16 07/05/98 -0400, you wrote:
> >At 10:53 AM 5/7/98 EDT, TalonMail wrote:
> >BTW, Steve, do you know the status on the new addition to the Mulvihill
> >family?
> >
> >Hey, maybe we could do like what we did with Nigel and have Adam send a
> >"list card," an e-mail expressing our congratulations from the entire
list
> >in one e-mail.
>
> Undernet #Shadowrun was probably going to be sending flowers to the FASA
> offices when we heard the news. Donations gleefully accepted for this --
I
> just got my phone bill. EEK!
>
I'd be willing to contribute to the cause if it could wait a week. I have
to stretch ten bucks between now and my next payday. Otherwise I'd be more
than happy to contribute to the flowers fund.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 22:59:50 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun without magic?
In-Reply-To: <199805071605.LAA24603@*****.interkan.net> from "Nexx" at
May 7,
98 10:59:35 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
And verily, did Nexx hastily scribble thusly...
|***************
| Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
| "Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn lasts
|forever"
| aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
| "Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo the
|better part of humor."
|aka Ellegon, Working at making Cannon canon
| "Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are crunchy
|and good with ketchup."
|--------[Geek Code Block]-----------
|GED/GSS d- s++:+ a-- C++ W w+ PS+.5 PE- Y+ t+
|5+ X+ R*+.5 !tv+ b+.5 DI+ D- G e h !r-- !y+
|-------[End Geek Code Block]-------
|
Hmmmm...
I think that's just a LITTLE bit over doing it with the .sig there...
I've had complaints about mine before now, and it's only 9 lines....
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 23:03:46 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Math
In-Reply-To: <199805071617.LAA25425@*****.interkan.net> from "Nexx" at
May 7,
98 11:11:15 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
And verily, did Nexx hastily scribble thusly...
|X = Shadowrun
|Y = Fantasy Elements (Magic, Dragons, Trolls, etc.)
|Z = Cyberpunk Elements (Cyberware, Gritty Future)
|A = Realism
|
|A+Y+Z=X
|A+Z=/=X
You've been messing with PROLOG!
STOP IT!
:)
It can seriously damage your will to live.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 10:08:18 +1200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: Cyberware Power Sources
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Quoth Wafflemeisters (0948 08-05-98 NZT):
<<<SLICE>>>
>> Standardly, neurons produce a charge of 700
>> milliwatts in a non-active state.
>> If this mechanism could be maginifed, it could also be a source
>> of plausable and natural eletrical current.
>>
>
> It can be. Electric eels genrate very high voltagees by having
many
>neurun-like cells "stacked" in series, adding thier volatages like
>batteries in series. Similarly, multiple "stacks" in paralel would add
>amperage. Given the abiltiy to grow similar cells (easy in SR),
>engenering an organized tissue to produce the proper voltages and
>currents would be doable, even with TODAYS tech (guided tissue
>structuring has produced primitive "liveres" with simplified filter
like
>structures ofintelaced blood vessels and liver tissue).
> Put such an engeneered organ in a cyberlimb, route blood (or
blood
>filtrates) to it, and WHOLA, organic "Fuel cell battery", plus another
>excuse (besides pain) for limb damage to affect the user-the limb
>BLEEDS.
This whole thread reminds me of an idea I had for cyberlimbs that I got
when I picked up an **&* supplement (you don't wanna know). I had a
hero (I was trying to write a novella) who lost most of his right arm,
and got a special magical/mechanical replacement: adamantium bones, with
magically-cloned muscles and reinforced tendons. Such a thing would be
possible under SR technology, right? (Equivalent of titanium
bone-lacing for the actual bones, 'muscle replacement' for the tissue
and such...)
Why would someone want this? Well, apart from the bone, it'd be their
own flesh, so there would be a reduced Essence cost. The limb itself
would have no particularly special properties (apart from being
unbreakable and setting off metal detectors). It'd be more for those
civilians who want to get a limb back without expensive/unnatural
cyberware, rather than for the combat monsters.
Should this be cyberware, bioware, or a bit of both? Suggested
essence/body and monetary costs?
Danyel Woods
9604801@********.ac.nz
'Are you deliberately trying to drive me insane?'
'The universe is already mad. Anything else would be
redundant.'
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 18:13:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Brian Moore <mooreb@****.FAC.COM>
Subject: Re: How much down time?
In-Reply-To: <v03110709b17704dd295d@[204.202.55.216]> from "Robert
Nesius" at
May 6, 98 11:32:59 pm
Content-Type: text
Robert Nesius <nesius@******.COM> said:
>
> Questions for the list:
>
> How much downtime do your characters usually have between runs?
We only started keeping track after the Companion came out, due to the
rules on training time. I argued that there should be enough time
between runs to be able to spend the karma earned on the run, just as
a rough average. The mages could spend karma fast, between spells,
initiation, foci, and familiars. Unfortunately, the street sams
had to spend karma the slow way (using the training rules). It is
generally around 2 weeks to 2 months between runs. It depends on
GM whim and how active the PCs are looking for work. Usually the
street sams blow their money on cyberware and can't afford their
lifestyle, so they look for work first.
> How many runs per game year do your groups fit in?
Probably 10-15.
> What is the average grade of initiacy that your magically actives attain?
My PC is grade 3, everyone else is 2 IIRC.
> How about average skill rating. ie: Lots of sixes and higher? Sixes and
> lower?
Mostly sixes and lower. Several people do have higher skills, but usually
only one or two per person.
> Just trying to get a feel for where people are at. Probably all over
> the map, but I'd appreciate your input on this.
You should also have asked about stats. All of our PCs are pretty buff,
with the weakest mage at 4 in all of his physical stats and max (or higher)
in the others. We have several PCs at or near straight 6's across the
board (excluding racial modifiers).
--
Brian Moore, mooreb@***.com | I wrote up a nice script to truncate all News&
First Albany Corp. Sysadmin | Mail sigs that are greater than 4 lines long.
standard disclaimers apply | It is still in beta testing due to an off-by-
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 23:14:41 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the Single
In-Reply-To: <011101bd79e3$ba11aea0$0101a8c0@********.wave.shaw.ca> from
"Lander Williams" at May 7, 98 12:12:41 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
And verily, did Lander Williams hastily scribble thusly...
|hmm... how DOES 5D4 work as a damage code?
It's pretty simple really, once you get the hang of it...
5D4 >>>> 5 Power (Number to resist)
D Base Deadly Damage.
4 Staging number. The number of successes required to stage down.
So. You need at least 16 successes to remain uninjured.
4 to get from Deadly to Serious.
4 to get from Serious to Moderate.
4 to get from Moderate to Light
And a final four to clear.
(Simple, innit... Errrr... The working out that is, not the resisting that
kind of damage.... But then, with a Ballistic armour of 6 that would reduce
the number of successes to a slightly more managable 10...)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 23:27:37 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
In-Reply-To:
<cÊ%a=GOVMT.CANADA%p=GC+EC%lìNCR_EXCH2-980507194906Z-100796@***.ncr.ec.gc.ca>
from "Ojaste,James
[NCR]" at May 7, 98 03:49:06 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did Ojaste,James [NCR] hastily scribble thusly...
|
|Gurth wrote:
|>> Armor reducing power was a good idea, though, rather than automatic
|>> resistance successes. (Heretic, I know. I'm not *THAT* old, just 26.).
|>
|>A combination of the two would work very well, I think -- keep the revised
|>Power Levels of SRII and the way armor works, but add in the Staging rules
|>of SR1.
|
|This sounds like a net.project - converting all the new goodies over
|to SR1 damage codes...
YES!
Please?
>*wimper*<
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 23:28:29 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
In-Reply-To: <199805072110.RAA13828@******.mindspring.com> from "MC23" at
May
7, 98 05:08:26 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did MC23 hastily scribble thusly...
|
| OK guys this topic is getting worn thin. It's over.
|
|MC23, ShadowRN GridSec Vigilante
|
LOL!
Whatever next. DLoH impersonators?
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 23:33:42 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
In-Reply-To: <199805072117.QAA09597@*****.interkan.net> from "Nexx" at
May 7,
98 04:11:13 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did Nexx hastily scribble thusly...
|Can someone give me a run-down on 1st ed Karma rules? I need to find a
|BBlB, it seems...
Karma rules?
Simple.
At the end of a run you got awarded Karma.
With that Karma, you could buy skills, up attributes, learn spells or bond
foci. OR, you could save some of this karma in case of emergencies.
Spending 1 Karma point would avoid and oops, or allow a reroll of all failed
die.
Spending 2 karma would grant one auto-success. VERY usefull for making the
stabilisation roll after deadly damage.
Pools worked similarely, but the combat pool didn't exist. That replaced the
old Dodge and Defense pools (yes, pools could NOT enhance attack, only
defense, apart from astral and magic of course). Oh, and the Karma pool
didn't exist either.
There was one kind of karma. YOU decided what to spend it on or how to burn
it.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 08:38:35 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: OT: Silly Spendthrift AFLs ;) (Was Re: Shadowrun without magic?)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980507154541.0080d440@****.lis.ab.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> >Hey, maybe we could do like what we did with Nigel and have Adam send a
> >"list card," an e-mail expressing our congratulations from the entire
list
> >in one e-mail.
>
> Undernet #Shadowrun was probably going to be sending flowers to the FASA
> offices when we heard the news. Donations gleefully accepted for this -- I
> just got my phone bill. EEK!
I have four words for you - "It`s all your fault!"
<grin>
Lady Jestyr
- I'm in touch with my Inner Klingon... -
| Elle Holmes | jestyr@**********.com | http://jestyr.home.ml.org |
| Shadowrun Webring Ringmaster | GeoCities Leader | RPGA Reviewer |
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:59:16 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Where do you put the bateries?
On Wed, 6 May 1998 18:42:47 -0400 Joshua Bell <joshbell@**********.COM>
writes:
>Hello all Josh here,
>In my musings for today I was contemplating cyberware. I wondered how
all
>of these neat little devices got the power they need to run. Does wired
>reflexes have a battery pack? If so why isn't it listed so I as a GM
can
>rule that it shorted out at a most inoportune time <display
evil_grin>.?.
>
>I assume (rightly I hope) that certain cyberware requires a LOT of power
>such as Encephalons, C^2 decks, Cyberlimbs (gosh yes!), etc.
>
>What are your thoughs on how they are powered, Ahh an Ephipany! the
>"Nuclear Power Plant" implant Essence cost -1,000,000. <grin>...
>
>No really, would a datajack like act as an AC/DC cable?
Actually, another RPG, CyberSpace (from I.C.E.), addressed this and I
kinda like how they described it.
Cybersystems were generally powered microcells which used decaying
radioactive isotopes for power and lasted years without replacement.
(replacement can be considered part of cybermaintence [are there rules
for this?])
Also Cyberware could be powered by a solar batery linked to the system.
(not sure how to handle this ... [.1 essence? cost = 10+{100*number of
sys to be powered}?])
D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
"Parts is parts ... unless those parts is going in *my* body"
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:59:24 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
In-Reply-To: <199805072110.RAA13828@******.mindspring.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 17:08 07/05/98 -0400, you wrote:
> OK guys this topic is getting worn thin. It's over.
>
>MC23, ShadowRN GridSec Vigilante
<grin>
MC23 is right. This has strayed way off course.
-Adam
But that doesn't make him GridSec ;)
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:47:13 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Possible Vehicle Economy Fix
Okay, R2's vehicle economy figures are a tad off so let's see if we can
fix `em.
<Observation of facts>
Let's start by looking at the Eurocar Westwind 2000 and say that it's
your average sports car aproximately equivalent to Mustang (not quite but
for sake of argument).
Eurocar westwind RBB econ: 20 km/L (12.4 mi/L = 46 mpg)
R2 econ: 6 km/L (3.72 mi/L = 14 mpg)
Best possible sports car R2 Econ: 10 km/L (6.2 mi/L = 23 mpg)
1991 Ford Mustang LX V8 Econ: 19 mpg (5 mi/L = 8 km/L)
1995 Ford Mustang GT V8 Econ: 18 mpg (4.8 mi/L = 7.7 km/L)
1995 Ford Mustang V6 Econ: 22 mpg (5.8 mi/L = 9.4 km/L)
Now let's say that the Ford Americar (I would have gone with the
Jackrabbit but it runs on Methane) is the equivelant of a Geo Prizm or
Honda Civic.
Ford Americar RBB econ: 50 km/L (31 mi/L = 117 mpg)
R2 econ: 12.4 km/L (7.7 mi/L = 29 mpg)
Best possible Sedan R2 Econ: 14 km/L (8.64 mi/L = 32.9 mpg)
1991 Geo Prizm Econ: 25 mpg (40.3 mi/L = 10.6 km/L)
1995 Geo Prizm Econ: 33 mpg (53.2 mi/L = 14.1 km/L)
1991 Honda Civic Econ: 27 mpg (43.5 mi/L = 11.5 km/L)
1995 Honda Civic Econ: 29 mpg (46.8 mi/L = 12.3 km/L)
For both examples the information on the modern cars was taken from
Consumer Reports (1991-92 and 1995)
For those who wish to check my math:
1 liter = 1.057 quarts = .264 gallons
1 km = .62 miles
</Observation of facts>
Okay I think the average vehicle's economy is going to improve not
worsen> I would say gas guzzlers are going to go the way of the dodo
(but not entirely). the Rigger Black Book (IMO) exagerated the
improvement and Rigger 2 (also, IMO) underestemated them. To fix this I
would suggest multipliing economy by 1.5 or, if you are really generous
(or optomistic), by 2.
In general, I don't really use vehicle economy, instead I calaculate the
range and only make a deal about fuel when chars push that limit.
BTW, IMO, all micro sized drones should be electric powered.
D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
"Have you seen any invisble people run through here lately?"
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:21:41 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
In-Reply-To: <199805072107.RAA17027@******.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|> From: MC23
|> Sent: May 7, 1998 5:06 PM
|> Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
|> With my new campaign I've gone back as well. Karma Pools cannot be saved
|> IMNSHO.
Er, excuse, but I am lost. Could you please explain your statement? Also,
if someone would be so nice as to refresh my memory and explain the
differences in karma rules between SRI and SRII?
Katt Freyson
ICQ UIN 3337155
Montreal, Canada
http://www.dsuper.net/~katt
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:21:50 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Cyberware Power Sources
In-Reply-To: <35522BFD.6AAA@**********.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|> From: Wafflemeisters
|> Sent: May 7, 1998 5:48 PM
|> Subject: Re: Cyberware Power Sources
|> <tounge in cheek>
|> I always assumed it drew power from its essence cost, turning essence
|> sustaining lifeforce into electricty directly.
|> </tounge in cheek>
Gosh I love it! Best excuse for essence loss I've read so far. I might
actually use it. It's not pure technology, it's magic-tech! <grin>
As for powering cyberwear with biological energy, well, why not? Standard
limbs [by that I mean that give a person his normal strength] would not use
more power than a normal person does, so why not from a human biological
system? As for powering more powerful devices, people with such cyberwear
could be given drugs to increase their metabolism, so that they would
generate power at a high enough rate.
Makes me think of Cybergeneration, where the kids with the virus have to
eat more often than normal to make up for the high energy requirements of
their bioware.
Katt Freyson
ICQ UIN 3337155
Montreal, Canada
http://www.dsuper.net/~katt
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 01:33:03 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980507115907.089f71ce@****.fbiz.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>As I recall from the back of SR2 BBB, 5D4 would be translated as 7D. A 3L1
>would become 2L.
In most cases, they added staging and power to get the new power, though
not always. 5D4 would become 9D and 3L1 would become 4L (a hold out).
- Cobra.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 01:32:59 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the SingleShadowrunner(t
In-Reply-To: <cÊ%a=GOVMT.CANADA%p=GC+EC%lìNCR_EXCH2-980507183833Z-10
0504@***.ncr.ec.gc.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>It basically allows for a more intelligent choice of weapons than
>"I'll grab a heavy pistol - which one doesn't matter, 'cause they're
>all 9M"...
All heavy pistols were 4M2...
This system was a bit stupid sometime... When you used explosive ammo, it
increased the staging by 1, thus making it more difficult to kill someone.
Also, a hold out pistol was 3L1 which was more deadlier than a heavy pistol
with a good skill.
Armors were boring because a troll with an armor jacket was even more
unbeatable than in SR2.
I speak about magic which was really too powerful... At that time, armor
was a +1 per success... Increase reflexes was the same as wired reflexes
(+2 +1d6 per level)...
I don't regret SR1. SR2 was a really good evolution and is more playable
and balanced and reallistic. IMO.
>More weapon variety, more weapon personality - it's a much cooler
>system and I hope that they switch back to it in SR3 (though unlikely,
>I'll admit).
I hope not. There wasn't more variety. Within a category, there only 2
different damage codes, which is the same in SR2.
- Cobra.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:24:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
In-Reply-To: <199805071815.OAA02414@****.ctghub.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:16 PM 5/7/98 -0500, you wrote:
>On 7 May 98 at 14:21, Erik Jameson wrote:
>
>> Hey, the "Respected Elders Relaxation Resort" is now open for
>> business, right here in sunny southern California. It's got a nice
>Even me?
>I promise to leave my jack-boots at the door. :)
Even you qualify Drekhead. And in addition to leaving the jack-boots at
the door, make sure you leave all carp weapons there also; I've just
purchased a bleeding-edge technology carp detector and I'm not afraid to
use it.
Gotta keep the resort safe from all those damn kids with their gangs and
drive-by carpings and whatnot...
Erik J.
Resepected Elders Relaxation Resort Activites Director
"Hey, how about a game of first edition using only the Blue Book?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:25:21 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Traveling Quiz
In-Reply-To: <199805071934.PAA14018@*******.mindspring.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:33 PM 5/7/98 -0400, you wrote:
><dripping sarcasm>
>Oh thank you
></dripping sarcasm>
Ouch. I thought I told the list to stop doing that; it's a serious bitch
to clean that stuff up off my monitor.
Like that damn ectoplasmic goo from Ghostbusters...if I'm not careful it
stains my dress clothes...I think I kept it off my nice suit this time, but
you do it again and I may be sending you a cleaning bill MC23.
> Now with that out of the way, how many of the traditional street
>level campaigns involve travel?
Most of my games fall between a street-level campaign (which those folks
really aren't going to leave Seattle, really) and something that appears to
most eyes as ultra-high powered like Keith's game.
Even at our most powerful stages we rarely left Seattle. A few times out
to Salish-Sidhe lands, to Scotland once (the Imago adventure I think), to
Amazonia once, CalFree a time or two, New England once, Chicago a few times
and Denver once or twice. This was all in a span of several real time
years. But at least 75% of our adventures were in Seattle. We could
usually find more than ample intrigue there.
Erik J.
Resepected Elders Relaxation Resort Activites Director
"Hey, how about a game of first edition using only the Blue Book?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:25:55 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners
In-Reply-To: <19980507175334.4019.rocketmail@******.yahoomail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:53 AM 5/7/98 -0700, you wrote:
>You're only 25 and you feel old?
Simple answer, yes.
Long answer, yes I do. <smirk>
When I want to, I can be a regular Calvin Coolidge. I just don't often
want to.
It stems from working as a lifeguard for six years (90 to 95). I saw that
I was once one of those care-free kids in high school. Then I suddenly
realized as I approached college graduation and the summer following
graduation that I had nothing in common with these kids. Their lives were
in a totally different place than mine. I was their boss, not a coworker.
Guests would call me "sir," the rebellious guards hated me (even though I
was one of them once and had the stories to prove I was more of a rebel
than they ever could be), there was maybe a half dozen female lifeguards
that I wouldn't get in trouble for "dating" (out of nearly 100 mostly
attractive young women) and I was telling stories about the good old days
way too often. I quite simply found myself in a different world from the
"youth;" I simply don't understand the mind of a teenager anymore.
I realized that while I am relatively young, to many people I'm old. Add
in the fact that I've got bad knees and can't climb stairs without pain,
like old people, and I often feel "old."
I was playing paintball a few weekends back and it took me several days to
recover from a very intense day of play (a lot of newbies there, so I had
to play hyper-aggressive ball to show them how the game should be played).
And I go to the gym and box so I'm not in horrible shape, yet it still took
me several days to recover. That's not something some young buck has to
do. That's something a mature adult has to do. I now understand what
athletes like Michael Jordan must go through every year now.
I guess it's just strange to see that once I was a 20-yr old newbie on this
list and now I'm an "Elder Statesman," telling stories about SR1 and what
the list was like in 93-95. That while I'm not old like my grandparents,
I'm not a kid anymore. It's a very strange sensation to recognize your own
mortality and the fact that your youth is really gone forever.
Ack.
To try and drag this kicking and screaming back on-topic, how old are your
PCs? Excepting any munchy IEs and the like that is.
It's been my experience that most runner are between 18 and 25. Anyone
notably older than that (Keith, I know you have one or two there)? My own
primary PC is I think 32 years old; nearly ancient by SR standards I think.
Anyway, sorry for rambling and taking this topic so far astray from SR. I
guess I'm just getting senile in my old age... ;-)
Erik J.
Resepected Elders Relaxation Resort Activites Director
"Hey, how about a game of first edition using only the Blue Book?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:26:44 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: ED Races in SR; why it can't happen (long)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980506202448.25716A-100000@******>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 08:43 PM 5/6/98 -0400, you wrote:
>One simple explanation is magic levels. Although magic levels are high,
>they are not high enough for T'skrang, Obsidimen or Windlings to appear.
This would appear to be obvious, but I'm not convinced it's true.
>In the Denizens of Barsaive book, it is mentioned that with magic levels
>dropping, T'skrang have a lower egg fertility rate.
AHA!! If their fertility rates drop with the level of magic, eventually
they could reach a point there they simply can't have children anymore.
Which would mean that would go extinct. No more t'skrang, because their
genetic code can't be passed down any farther.
Let's look at it this way. If a barghest is derived from a certain breed
of dog, then that breed of dog would go extinct and the only thing left
would be barghests. If barghests were to go extinct, there wouldn't be
anything left to return back to dogs when the magic dropped. It's a
hypothetical proposition anyway, and one that quite simply eliminates the
t'skrang from ever appearing in SR. They died with with Fourth Age.
>Each of these three
>races are not necessarily directly related to humans; for this reason, it
>is possible that their resurgence requires a higher magic level. For
>example, I don't believe that the Obsidimen will necessarily appear at the
>same time as dwarves and elves. Consider the length of mana cycles; it's
>quite possible that T'skrang will appear in two or three hundred years;
>with such a time scale, FASA can safely say that T'skrang will not appear
>in Shadowrun.
That's also true. But I honestly don't believe that they will appear.
They've gone the way of the dodo and the passenger pigeon. Lost but to the
annals of history.
Erik J.
"Oh my God, they killed Dunkelzahn! You bastards!!!"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:27:37 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
In-Reply-To: <199805071857.OAA02772@****.ctghub.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:58 PM 5/7/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> When 2nd edition came out we were happy. Only the Karma Pool would later
>> become our bane (and we even award Karma sparingly when compared to
>> others).
>
>Yes. I couldn't get him to play until SR2 came out. I didn't tell him
>I was still using SR1 Karma rules, though. :)
I still use SR1 Karma Rules also.
For those that don't know, SR1 and SR2 Karma rules are very similar. SR2
brought in that Karma Pool abomination though. Didn't exist in the old days.
See, I've usually been involved with power games, tending to play our game
a little more epic, less street-level. We also usually managed to acquire
sizable karma after a year or two. If we had a Karma Pool also, we would
be throwing massive amounts of dice with every friggin' roll.
So while we recieved sizable karma awards (a few rare occassions that were
extremely difficult mentally and combat-wise, even for power PCs ( <---heh,
a funny!) we earned something like 20 Karma each; average was 8-12), we
also were spending Karma rather freely. In some cases, we would have
spent, say, 10 Karma on rerolls and bought successes and only earn 6 Karma
at the end of the session, leaving the PC with a -4 Karma deficit for the
day. Most of that Karma would have been spent just keeping our asses alive.
And with Karma awards like that our Karma Pools would have been a
nightmare. But we were at least smart enough to have never used the
concept in the first place.
I don't know, the Karma Pool thing reminds me in some ways of the "Group
Pattern" concept from Earthdawn. It's a way to try and make the PCs an
"adventuring group" instead of a disperate group of mercenaries. And I
don't like that "group" concept in SR very much; there's no way most of the
PCs would associate with each other if it wasn't a profitable business
proposition.
Erik J.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 17:36:53 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Traveling Quiz
On Thu, 7 May 1998 05:44:00 -0400 MC23 <mc23@**********.COM> writes:
>Once upon a time, Wafflemeisters wrote;
>> Not IMO. Our characters travel a LOT, and "home city" tends to
loose
>>meaning pretty fast. We've liked / used most of the sourcebooks, but a
>>"genric travle guide", would be better for us. NAGRL fills some gaps,
>>but leaves many. Just because all the FASA stuf says "Seattle",
doesn't
>>mean people play Seattle- similar features can be adapted for plots set
>>n any city. And having EVERYTHING happen in your town starts to
stretch
>>thin pretty fast.
>
>I think that you're an exception to the norm. I think the most obvious
>way to find out what happens most often is to poll everyone.
>
>Does your campaign involve travel, how often, and how far and where is
it
>centered?
>
> I am MC23
Hmmmm... game play hasn't actually started yet with our group but I'm one
of 2 maybe 3 GMs in the group. The third GM hasn't been confirmed, and
the second one *insists* on playing in Houston, TX (where we're all
from). I want to play in Seatle (I think Seatle is an interesting place
from a surrounding territory POV) so if we use the same PCs we'll prolly
say they travel between the 2 places b4 any runs and generally not make a
fuss about any of the arrangements except perhaps lodgings. I intend to
have the PCs travel as soon as they're ready... Denver seems to be a nice
place to go <eGMg>.
Additionly some of the PCs have done some travelling pregame. I have 4
chars and only one is native to Seatle. One is an otaku elf who left the
Haven and shortly met up with ... a minotaur rigger from Greece (go
figure ;) who was making his way around UCAS. Together they went on to
Seatle. My 4 char is an escaped science project from Aztlan and her
english is very bad (actually, so is the minotaur's). However, you
prolly weren't interested in pregame travelling.
D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
"I wonder what this button does..."
_____________________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 17:47:54 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: SR Companion Metatypes
On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:22:24 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>Nexx said on 16:21/27 Apr 98...
>> This brings up something I've been contemplating, but never
quite >>worked out. I'm thinking about dropping the metatype priority,
but just >>giving humans an extra 3 points of attributes to distribute
how they wish >>(without actually raising their maximums). What does the
peanut gallery
>> think?
On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:22:24 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>I think that will work, although you would end up with _very_ strong
>characters if someone takes A priority for Attributes -- there's
>really no
>other choice than putting 3 at 6 and 3 at 5.
>
>--
>Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html -
<SNiP>
I also had an idea fer this (uh-oh. run! hide! ;)... I use the optional
split karma pool and what I do is this:
1) All metahumans get 1 karma point in each pool
2) humans get 2 karma points in each pool
3) humans get 1 "level" (for lack of a better word) of Exceptional
Ability Edge for free
You know what? out of 10 PCs only one is human ... I personally think
this optional rule gives humans an edge (no pun intended).
D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
" `scuse me? sledgehammer 'fist to go'?" -- Kirby Hero
_____________________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 00:53:10 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the SingleShadowrunner(t
In-Reply-To: <Version.32.19980508011727.00f84d80@****.mhnet.fr> from
"Cobra"
at May 8, 98 01:32:59 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
And verily, did Cobra hastily scribble thusly...
|
|>It basically allows for a more intelligent choice of weapons than
|>"I'll grab a heavy pistol - which one doesn't matter, 'cause they're
|>all 9M"...
|
|All heavy pistols were 4M2...
Not all. SSC. Firepower ammo and the good ol' faithfull Predator and
Predator II. (The Predator didn't have a reactive trigger, or the ability to
use Firepower ammo, which added +2 to power, the Pred II could ONLY handle
Firepower.... It was my fave weapon before ShRII came out and spoilt it...)
|This system was a bit stupid sometime... When you used explosive ammo, it
|increased the staging by 1, thus making it more difficult to kill someone.
But more difficult to resist the damage that'd already been inflicted.
Variable staging always was a double edged sword.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 02:04:07 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Possible Vehicle Economy Fix
In-Reply-To: <19980507.170320.4254.0.dghost@****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Okay, R2's vehicle economy figures are a tad off so let's see if we can
>fix `em.
><Observation of facts>
>[skip text]
></Observation of facts>
>
>Okay I think the average vehicle's economy is going to improve not
>worsen> I would say gas guzzlers are going to go the way of the dodo
>(but not entirely). the Rigger Black Book (IMO) exagerated the
>improvement and Rigger 2 (also, IMO) underestemated them. To fix this I
>would suggest multipliing economy by 1.5 or, if you are really generous
>(or optomistic), by 2.
>In general, I don't really use vehicle economy, instead I calaculate the
>range and only make a deal about fuel when chars push that limit.
>
>BTW, IMO, all micro sized drones should be electric powered.
Do you really use economics during game sessions ?
- Cobra.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 01:18:12 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: ED Races in SR; why it can't happen (long)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980507161604.21ef7b68@****.fbiz.com> from "Erik
Jameson" at May 7, 98 07:26:44 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did Erik Jameson hastily scribble thusly...
|Let's look at it this way. If a barghest is derived from a certain breed
|of dog, then that breed of dog would go extinct and the only thing left
|would be barghests.
That's sloppy thinking I'm afraid.
Why wouldn't the dogs react to magic in the same way as the people?
Only a small percentage of the population gave birth to or goblinised into
metaraces, and the same could be said for the dogs.
Also, there is word that the magic dropped suddenly, NOT gradually.
If it was a gradual drop, it might have been the buffer zone needed for
their unborns to revert to the lower, non-magical race.
Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing the 3 missing races appear,
It'd bring on a whole new night of rage if they suddenly appeared in force
at another magic threshold....
<EGMG>
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 10:19:50 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Gurth writes:
>It disappointed me when I looked at the damage rules in SRII... I _liked_
>the variable staging, it gave weapons slightly more ways in which to be
>different, and my experience is that it didn't make combat slower than in
>second edition. With either you have to divide the successes by something
>and then stage up or down accordingly, it's just that the number varies
.instead of being a fixed 2.
I wasn't too upset with the demise of variable staging for weapons, when I
noticed that armour didn't give automatic successes anymore. I think the
tradeoff was fairly decent, and I remember a quote from this list from when
SR2 came out: "We played our first game of SR2 last night, and I discovered
that Trolls aren't bulletproof anymore!"
What disappointed me was the demise of variable staging for _spells_, and
spell drain. Sure, it made the design more complex, but the munchkin trick
of casting high drain spells at low force, and throwing away the drain just
wasn't possible. If you slung major mojo around in SR1, you were going to
take drain... it wasn't uncommon for drain to need 3 or 4 successes per
level, so if you throw a big spell around, you'd be assured based on the
number of available dice that you'll take at least a light or even a
moderate drain. Now, you can toss Force 4 with Deadly drain spells around
all day, nearly. (Willpower 6, keep 3 dice back from the spell casting test
to resist drain).
This is one area of SR2 that needs serious overhaul in SR3, IMHO.
--
sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 20:34:22 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Craig S Dohmen <dohmen@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shasdowrun: Off course! (loong!)
In-Reply-To: <19980507201203.5941.qmail@*******.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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> Dowd's. While he's certainly done some cool stuff, (Companion) he's also
> made some choices ranging from simply a little bland (Corp War thing-
> who cares?) all the way to near-disastrous (Rigger 2- so complicated it
^^^^^^^^^
Well, shadowrunners should care. Since the corps will have all sorts of
covert ops going on against each other....
> bizarre & sinister mix of magic & machine. Quit screwing with magic,
> FASA. Don't fix what ain't broken. If you find magic too powerful, step
> up the competition, or tone down what mojo players get. I have played
I think everyone is jumping the gun on this magic thing. Based on what they
said at last year's Gen Con, SR3 and the new magic book aren't going to
totally overhaul the magic system. It's going to be more along the lines of
defining things more exactly and explanation of how things work, eg,
grounding through quickenings. ;)
> * Horrors, IE's & the Tirs, oh my!- I thought these were neat but only
> in real limited quantity. They are way overused now. Ditto all the super
So, Mike has been downplaying the IE/Horror angle. What are you complaining
about?
> say, 'Cyberpirates'? They can't do a Japan book, but they do give us
> 'Blood in the Boardroom'... great.
They can't do a Japan book because they want to have someone from Japan
write it, and since SR was only released there within the last year, they
haven't found anyone yet.
--Craig
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 20:26:53 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun: Off course! (loong!)
In-Reply-To: <19980507201203.5941.qmail@*******.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 01:12 PM 5/7/98 PDT, you wrote:
> I think FASA (Mulvihill specifically) is quite a bit off lately.
>Mulvihill seems to basically hate the game we all love & wants to make
>all these drastic changes to make it more "his" game as opposed to
>Dowd's.
Mike doesn't hate Shadowrun. If he did, he'd be working on Battletech or
doing something else. He has some definite ideas about the game though,
and is incorporating them slowly. Cut him some slack.
> * Magic- without it, the game is Cyberpunk with different rules, NOT
>Shadowrun. The world would be nothing the same.
Damn it, I wish this concept would just die. FASA IS NOT DROPPING MAGIC
FROM SHADOWRUN!!! There, did I yell loud enough for you to hear?
>Quit screwing with magic,
>FASA. Don't fix what ain't broken. If you find magic too powerful, step
>up the competition, or tone down what mojo players get.
Magic in SR works great, better than any other system, I believe. But it
sure as hell isn't perfect and Steve Kenson and FASA are working very hard
to fix those elements that *are* broken; and there are things that are
broken and need to be fixed. That's probably part of the purpose for SR3.
>I have played
>since the day 1st ed. came out & have yet to have ONE person earn
>initiation...
Define earning Initiation. I've played since SR1 also and the majority of
PCs have to bust their ass to get the Karma to Initiate. So I don't know
what you are getting at here.
>See also the new rules for metamagic in the Companion.
What? What new metamagic rules in the Companion. Did I miss something
here? I've read that book numerous times and I don't recall any new
metamagic.
> * Cyber- bioware shouldn't let players off easy since it should be hell
>to get, not to mention it usually has side effects. Physads pay dearly
>for their power & don't get as powerful as a sam. The point is, sure
>you're supposed to pay for your edge but if you handle it right, so does
>everybody.
Unless I'm mistaken, there is a price to pay for cyberware and not only in
nuyen. The lower the Essence, the harder it is to use magic to heal them
up. That means hospital bills (hell, that means finding a hospital that
will take the SINless and certified credsticks) and time off that can't be
used for running. And if you want to run with cyberpsychosis-type stuff,
go for it, that's the province of ROLE-PLAYING!
> * Horrors, IE's & the Tirs, oh my!- I thought these were neat but only
>in real limited quantity. They are way overused now.
Agreed. And they are being scaled back; or can't you tell?
>Ditto all the super
>high level epic scale stuff. We're lousy plex rats... we have no part in
>this stuff.
Not every runner is a "lousy plex rat." And you seem to forget basic Chaos
theory, the Lorenz Butterfly Effect; even the affects of one tiny shadowrun
on one little corporate installation can end up having huge affects. So
even a lousy plex rat can actually shake the foundations of heaven, without
even realizing it.
And not everyone wants to run gutter punks. That style of game isn't for
everyone. It's the way CP2020 runs, but SR is open to far more variation I
think. I *like* my very upscale ex-corporate combat mage that drives
around in a Saab Dynamit and wears 10,000 nuyen worth of clothes. It's fun
for me to have that PC interact with gutter rats. I like that variety.
> * Non-shadowrunner campaigns- Theses are already way out of hand. Cool
>as a diversion, but ultimately a distraction from the point. We really
>don't need these 'other types of games' that keep pushing... can anyone
>say, 'Cyberpirates'? They can't do a Japan book, but they do give us
>'Blood in the Boardroom'... great.
Those other styles of campaigns were added for flavor, so that those people
who *wanted* to run a game like that could, and have a basic framework from
which to work in. Cyberpirates is much more valuable than just "Here's how
to run a pirates campaign."
And I think you are totally missing the point on Blood in the Boardroom.
It's changing the entire corporate landscape. I don't know about your
games, but in mine 90% of the employers of shadowrunners are corporate.
And that supplement creates a huge amount of potential adventure hooks.
> There's my dollar ninety-fine worth... if I seem a little harsh, it's
>just because I love ya Mulvihill, & I'd hate to see Shadowrun go the way
>of 'Vampire"...
Shadowrun will not turn into Vampire.
I really don't understand why you are being so harsh; much of it seems to
be on mistaken perceptions of the future of the game (i.e., magic is NOT
going away, despite the nasty rumor) or your own perceptions of the game
being a game of gutter punks and gangers.
If you want to run a gutter campaign, that's fine. But I don't want to,
and Shadowrun is big enough for both of those games.
I think you are missing so many points here, your perception of SR is way
wacked out from anything like consensual reality. But that's your right I
suppose.
Erik J.
"Ladies & Gentleman, the newest member of the band, the one and only Spice
Boy, GRUMPY SPICE!!!" <and the crowd goes wild!!!>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:26:16 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Radiation and Magic
On Mon, 4 May 1998 09:27:33 -0500 Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
writes:
>>
<SNIP>
>> for the unhealthy mana to feed straight into the mage's brain. This
would >> mean that there is an astral plane outside the earth and all
that would be >> needed to create a safe enviroment for mages in space
would be to recreate >> the magical properties of the ozone ... (which
shouldn't be easy by any >> means) and would also explain spirits with
"an affinity to solar fire". >> It's a stretch, but if you don't stretch
you'll never go anywhere :)
>Check out the Big D's will. I don't have the page number handy, but in
>there he left a chunk of cash to a scientist researching "The relation
>ship between nuclear power and mana" or some such. Perhaps its not
>a big as stretch as you think. :)
>
>--
>Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
<SNIP Sig>
Actually I knew about the hinted at possible connection between magic in
radiation. The stretch I was reffering to was the explanation for mages
going ga-ga. :)
D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
_____________________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 18:43:06 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: How much down time?
On Wed, 6 May 1998 23:32:59 -0700 Robert Nesius <nesius@******.COM>
writes:
>Questions for the list:
>How much downtime do your characters usually have between runs?
Since gameplay hasn't really started yet, it's hard to say but I'd guess
it will range from a few days to a few weeks. Enough time to let the PCs
relax and at the same time keep em busy enough that their shadow income
doesn't drop too low.
>How many runs per game year do your groups fit in?
As above, dunno but I'd guess 1 per week during the summer so, that may
result in about a total of 12 games ... during the school year we'll
prolly be too busy to do any decent amount of shadowrunning ...
>What is the average grade of initiacy that your magically actives
>attain?
none, atm. I have 2 magically active characters, a Druid and a PhysAd.
I'm not sure how I'll handle the Druid's intiation but the PhysAd is
going to do it on a more subconcious level. To represent this, I'm going
to split karma fairly evenly among Stats, Skills, and Intiation. As soon
as she has enough karma for a self-initiation (no ordeals) she'll do it.
>How about average skill rating. ie: Lots of sixes and higher? Sixes
>and
>lower?
Everybody in the group tends to have one or two skills at 6 and the rest
range evenly from 2 to 5. I would say the average skill is 3 or 4,
closer to 3. The exception is my Otaku who has Computer at 8. In the
group the spellslingers all have sorcery at 6 and most have Conjury at 6
as well. Those who have Psychometry tend to have it at 3 or 4.
>Just trying to get a feel for where people are at. Probably all over
>the map, but I'd appreciate your input on this.
>
>Thanks,
>-Rob
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Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:39:00 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Karma and the Pedestrian (was Re: SR Agriculture)
On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 08:05:28 -0400 Jerry Hill
<agh60070@*******.CC.UCF.EDU> writes:
>How does anyone else deal with Karma for people who just happen to be
>around. I don't mean the karma pool on an individual basis (that's
handled
>with threat/professional ratings) but specifically good karma with
regard to
>bonding costs, the ability to quicken and/or anchor spells, etc.
>
>I've seen some interesting ideas in the Aggriculture thread, up to and
>including ending world hunger via magic. The problem I see here is that
>Karma is a fairly difficult thing to quantify... How many spells can
someone
>quicken before they run out of karma, etc.
>
>I think the answer to this, once I figure out how I want to deal with
it,
>will have quite a bit of impact on the viability of wide scale
commercial
>magic use in my worldview. Perhaps the average Joe should be assigned a
>certain amount of karma per year or something to do with as he
chooses...
>
>Bah. I need to think about this one for a while. Any comments?
>
>
>Jerry Hill
hmmm...I have delt with this any yet, but... when determining karma
awards for "pedestrains" keep in mind the following:
1) The risk/ stress of the person's day-to-day,
2) The amount accomplished,
3) and possibly the impact of his/her actions.
As a basis OTOMH a chart would go something like this:
Security Guard would get 1 karma per week
Security Mage would get 1 karma per 3-4 days
Corp Suit would get 1 karma per week (high stress/large impact)
Wageslave would get 1 karma per 2-3 months
Mageslave would get 1 karma per month
Reseach Magician would get from 1 karma per month to 1 karma per 2-3
days depending on research.
Study (ie at a university, but not neccissarily) would increase rate by
x2 to x4 depending on workload
Coach potato would get 0 to 1 points of karma a year
This sound any good?
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Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:21:24 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkinism at it's finest
On Thu, 7 May 1998 17:34:23 -0400 Jonathan Hurley
<jhurley1@************.EDU> writes:
>On Thursday, May 07, 1998 5:11 AM, MC23[SMTP:mc23@**********.COM]
>wrote:
>> Once upon a time, Wafflemeisters wrote;
>> > Replacing the Wires with a custom grade is out of the
question,
>> >cost wise. If it isn't, I don't want to hear about it (I'm
jealous)....
>> <snip the rest>
>> sigh. Replacing wires is out of the question period. It's one of those
>> one shot type of implantations. Didn't anybody fully read Shadowtech?
>> sigh again.
BTW, the page reference for the above is page 39 Last paragraph before
System Damage
>Contradicted by the entry in Cybertechnology in which someone mentions
>that he 'had his wires pulled and replaced' (*not* a direct quote) so he
>could have a relfex trigger put in.
>
>I don't really have a problem with the concept of removing wired
reflexes. >Nanites can just as easily 'eat' the wires as lay them down.
>
>It'd probably not be easy for someone to go back to living without the
wires, >(nor would it be cheap to remove them, I'd say the surgery would
cost as much >as the original installation surgery, but if someone wants
>to go down that road, be my guest).
>
>Basically, my view on it is that the cost is prohibitive, so that's why
>all the 'war-surplus' wired-up folks show up in the shadows.
>
>--
>Ian Silvercat claims the above in the name of himself!
I agree. (Btw the direct quote is "I actually had my wire taken out and
put back in with a reflex trigger." -- Steel Lynx pg 38) I was
considering charging as per Gene Therapy: 100kN then modify according to
the grade to be removed (ie 300k for alpha, 700k for Beta, and 1M for
delta [Gamma, Epsilon and S.Epsilon I'll remove for free <grin>]) then
the Sam will have to spend 4 months hospilized (in the appriate grade
clinic) before implantation of the new sys can begin ... ought to make
runners reeeaaal wary about upgrading.
PS if you're feeling nasty, make that the cost per point of essence :P
(ie removing wired 2 [normal grade] would cost 300kN and hospitalize the
char for 12 months).
D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
"I feel Monkey Funky"
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Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:26:10 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
In-Reply-To: <24158.199805072227@*****.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
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At 23:27 07/05/98 +0100, you wrote:
>|This sounds like a net.project - converting all the new goodies over
>|to SR1 damage codes...
>
>YES!
>
>Please?
>>*wimper*<
Might want to wait for SR3 to come out before you do this. I know I'm
waiting for SR3 before trying any of the GURPS conversions I've been
meaning to try.
Course, I won't have TIME to do those conversions until then. <insert busy
busy busy grin>
-Adam
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 21:40:09 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun without magic?
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In a message dated 5/7/98 2:34:40 PM US Eastern Standard Time, erikj@****.COM
writes:
> Hey, maybe we could do like what we did with Nigel and have Adam send a
> "list card," an e-mail expressing our congratulations from the entire list
> in one e-mail.
>
> Put my name on the "e-card" anyway.
>
I'll include myself here as well if you don't mind. I may not agree with the
guy, but he and Sharon do deserve the best of wishes...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 21:55:05 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: OT: Silly Spendthrift AFLs ;) (Was Re: Shadowrun without
magic?)
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In a message dated 5/7/98 5:39:59 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU writes:
> Donations gleefully accepted for this -- I
> > just got my phone bill. EEK!
>
> I have four words for you - "It`s all your fault!"
>
Actually, I just got mine as well for a particular call to Norway...Yep, it's
a nasty thing when the phone bill (just one call) exceeds the credit card
payment for the month...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 21:13:56 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun without magic?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> > Hey, maybe we could do like what we did with Nigel and have Adam send
a
> > "list card," an e-mail expressing our congratulations from the entire
list
> > in one e-mail.
> >
> > Put my name on the "e-card" anyway.
> >
> I'll include myself here as well if you don't mind. I may not agree
with the
> guy, but he and Sharon do deserve the best of wishes...
Put my name on it, too.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:05:37 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Non-running sources of income (was Re: Talismongering)
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Jeremy "Bolthy" Zimmerman escreveu:
>
> ----------
> >
>
> How many people have their characters do work on the side?
There's a character in my group who is a female elf reporter. No
magic and no cyber but the datajack, running along 3 samurai and 2
mages... :)
Her contacts and social skills do provide great hooks, tough...
Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:09:38 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Tskrang Conspiracy (A little long)
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Jeremy Fisher escreveu:
> Chupucabras seem to be
>
I believe the correct name is ChupAcabras... Please give some more
info on these
creatures... Apparently, some of them have attacked cattle in some
regions of Brasil
and Argentina last year :) . No, I'm not kidding, sheep and other
animals appeared
dead with strange wounds, and people started saying it was a Chupacabra.
Don't know
how this ended, tough.
Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 22:04:09 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
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Erik Jameson escreveu:
>
> At 11:02 AM 5/5/98 -0600, you wrote:
> Gah. That's a small fetish now; given the medical advances by 205x, it
> would have to be a thriving fetish niche industry. Egads. And think of
> the plot devices that could be used with this...what better way to hide
> yourself from everyone than to change not only your appearance but your
> sex? Kinda like that one guy/girl in Escape from LA actually.
"Here sirs, we come to ancient ground of accursed springs,
Jusenkyo..."
I've thinking of this since a while back, I mean the "water curses"
from
Ranma 1/2 as Edges or Flaws. With a bit of tweaking (okay, maybe a LOT
of tweaking :) )
They could prove interesting. Any ideas?
Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 14:27:21 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Corporate power
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Cobra escreveu:
>
>In SR, megacorps aren't as powerful as in Cyberpunk.
I'll have to disagree with you on this one. The AAA Megacorps of
SR are way more powerful than those corps in CP (which aren't even
called
"megacorps"...) They'd be equal to second or third tier SR corps (AA or
A),
since they're big and multinational, but specialize in only one aspect
of the market. The Big 8 are most know for one of their activities, but
do everything and are everywhere.
Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:13:06 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Cyberware 2060/Jettware!
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Jessica Grota escreveu:
>
>
> Heh...ironic. Jett was a morphine addict for a while after she got her
> scars. She was horribly traumatized both physically and mentally. She
> proved just how strong she could be, though, and kicked that nasty
> habit. Although she nearly relapsed once under heavy stress, which made
> for great RP...
>
> --Jett
This one (named Kim) had the "habit" as a -6 points flaw ( I was
thinking
long term when I built her for the player...). Her player quit the group
before starting, and I reused the stats with some changing to another
guy who wanted in,
giving the numbers another name/background... :)
Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:22:28 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Cyber and Body Index (was Re: Munchkinism at it's finest)
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Jonathan Andrews escreveu:
> but if essence reduction on cyber comes from organic componentts, then how
> come they reduce impact on magic attribute? bioware is still organic, but
> it affect magicians adversely...
I believe "high-grade" cyberware doesn't have organic components,
it's just
built more carefully and is adjusted to the individual user. Normal
cyber doesn't
have this, it's quite generic (like, pre-defined sizes, etc.). Alpha
would have
some adjustable settings, Beta would be custom-fit. Delta, well, every
idividual
chip and bolt of those is propably made specially for the individual.
Wich each
increasing grade, the cyber is more and more adjusted to the user,
making it less
invasive. It doesn't mean organic components or magic.
Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 04:42:58 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners
In-Reply-To: <015201bd7a17$04711c00$5a5211ac@********.mincom.oz.au>
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>What disappointed me was the demise of variable staging for _spells_, and
>spell drain. Sure, it made the design more complex, but the munchkin trick
>of casting high drain spells at low force, and throwing away the drain just
>wasn't possible. If you slung major mojo around in SR1, you were going to
>take drain... it wasn't uncommon for drain to need 3 or 4 successes per
>level, so if you throw a big spell around, you'd be assured based on the
>number of available dice that you'll take at least a light or even a
>moderate drain. Now, you can toss Force 4 with Deadly drain spells around
>all day, nearly. (Willpower 6, keep 3 dice back from the spell casting test
>to resist drain).
I think they wanted the same system for everything... Not a bad idea.
It also was possible to do some rule bending in SR1. If I remember well,
stun spell had very low drains which made them quite easy to launch. The
big spells are always very difficult to launch...
And finally, they lost staging they added modifiers to the power so you
didn't lose any variation between spells.
Staging for spell effects made them quite impossible to resist... With a
staging of 1 (and most of the spell used by PCs had such a staging), it was
a ultimate weapon !
Generaly, SR1 was very unbalanced and somewhat usually unrealistic...
>This is one area of SR2 that needs serious overhaul in SR3, IMHO.
I never had any problem with it. When I look at my players, I can see them
suffer from drain. And a light wound is always a big problem in SR (perhaps
too much).
You can calculate drains with force instead of force/2.
- Cobra.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 04:43:05 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the SingleShadowrunner(t
In-Reply-To: <25856.199805072353@*****.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>|>It basically allows for a more intelligent choice of weapons than
>|>"I'll grab a heavy pistol - which one doesn't matter, 'cause they're
>|>all 9M"...
>|
>|All heavy pistols were 4M2...
>
>Not all. SSC. Firepower ammo and the good ol' faithfull Predator and
>Predator II. (The Predator didn't have a reactive trigger, or the ability to
>use Firepower ammo, which added +2 to power, the Pred II could ONLY handle
>Firepower.... It was my fave weapon before ShRII came out and spoilt it...)
I've forgotten this one. Anyway this came from ammo and not from the pistol
itself... :)
>|This system was a bit stupid sometime... When you used explosive ammo, it
>|increased the staging by 1, thus making it more difficult to kill someone.
>
>But more difficult to resist the damage that'd already been inflicted.
>Variable staging always was a double edged sword.
Not very realistic. This is typically a RPG effect without relation to
reality.
- Cobra.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 22:43:07 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: K's Dark History (A Real Warning to the Munchkin Kind)
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Recently, inspired by my own retorts and the like, I have come to a notion of
sorts. For years here in Lafalot, I was just about the only major SR GM
around. Others were there sure, but none had the group resources or time
availability that we did.
We played, By all the Gods, Good or Evil, did we play.
Started as Shaper/Vampire mixtures, simply because they made a good lure for
players with inner feelings all their own to be "really different".
Years passed, then we started adding the "Immortals", which wasn't that big a
deal because Vampires were immortal too, they just weren't that old (yet
anyway :)
Then one day, someone took my Primary Personal GM Rule #1 and ignored it
completely...
"I do not care what kind of character you play, no matter the power or type.
I just ask one favor. Remember that I will adjust the power of the game to
better balance everything out so as to give all involved a challenging and
enjoyable time. So please remember the rest of the group as well as
yourself."
One guy came along and decided he was far more important than the entire group
combined. I should have outright killed his character while I had the chance.
I one day overheard him talking with some newer players to the particular
campaign say..."Keith won't kill us, he'll just bring us back somehow".
The straw didn't break. I lit it on Fire. I took science to the final limit
in SR, by taking the rumor of "biogenetic development" to the final limit. I
invented someone that even if he killed, he would come back. I brought about
Clone Wars. For almost 3 months the group homed in on anything even remotely
related to this "Ulta-Villain". It cost several characters and what seemed
for so long like no limit to the friendships in RL. In the end, only a few
remained as part of "my game group". Mike was just starting his 'career' as a
SR Player when this was happening. I kept reminding every player for all that
time of my phrase and they each kept looking at me as the fault. Perhaps I
was, perhaps I wasn't. That's in the past now. Those players decided that a
personal vendetta had been created, even when I made attempts to cut the power
back. In the end, it (the entire campaign structure) simply collapsed and I
walked away from a game storyline I had created 9 years earlier in an entirely
different game system.
Now, after 7 years or more of SR gaming, I still live in that "Historic
Shadow". Occasionally some of "the Old Group" show up or we run into each
other. A few of them and I actually sit down, have some drinks and talk about
stuff. Most of the time, I try and keep the conversation off of gaming to
some extent. But because of who/how I GMed before, they had to know what I
was doing.
Power, a Drug Best Left having never been tested....
Now Mike is GM, and I will only finish the PBEM and occasionally give him an
oft' needed vacation so he can play out an idea or too really quick. Most of
those players still play the same way they always did, and I remain very
distant whenever possible.
Yes, we (the current group) is trying to play out characters to the "never-
ending end". Binder has been around for ages now, and it's fun watching him
continue to change and grow and remain the same all at once. Two of the
players here about two months ago came to a public statement of "we've never
had a single character this long or this powerful, we aren't sure what to do
now..." Our response was more or less ... "just keep playing, make longer
plans, create a character with a "Soul" for lack of better terms."
They have.
They really like it.
Characters with family ties, contacts, connections, more interest in B/R
skills than any other category (we are all currently in a "Toy" competition).
PCs who have found ways to continue growing.
"Threats" (the Sourcebook) has become a guide of sorts, just not direclty.
Three of us are directly a part of one aspect of that book (Erik probably can
guess which one). The tale I mentioned where a PC unleashed his fury on an IE
was about the extents and sacrifices that we have made in order to keep the
character alive. To go the final steps and then keep walking. Mythos (a
friend of Rob Nesius by name of Steve once had a girlfriend who knew Duane
Brickler who nearly joined a PBEM some 6 years ago now) is someone who has
gone through a ringer I wouldn't have put Binder through in all honesty. And
when you sit back and let Duane play the character and just leave him alone.
It is AWESOME!!!!
No, he wouldn't be able to beat an IE toe-to-toe, but he knows he make things
as hard as possible. We also know he as a PC has something that no NPC is
ever going to really have, lest the author of the NPC takes over. A "Soul".
He shares part of my belief that I have given to Binder. The Power isn't the
ultimate goal. Living Is. As long as you can remain a live, you can continue
trying to be whatever you can be. The only thing greater is letting someone
else have your gift. Meaning when you care so much about something that
"Character Sacrifice" can be done with real, deeply rooted, Role Playing
Intentions.
What am I saying now? I know, it's more of an aimless Rant. I guess I am
trying to say to anyone who "knows they aren't a munchkin even if they are in
truth" is pay more attention to what you point the finger at. Maybe we aren't
all "Munchkins", but I think most of us are deeply. I think most of us want
to feel invulnerable, feel powerful.
Especially if we've had a particularly bad day at work.
Especially if we've lost a good friend recently.
Especially if we've discovered that no one is going to let us forget our own
mistakes, least of all ourselves.
Anyone really care what level another character is? If so, you can find the
"Hoosier Hacker House" and find a very tamed down version of Binder. But I
ask a favor if you decide to do so. A chain of favors as it were.
Remember that when looking at this, it is not not merely a collection of
numbers and HTM code.
Remember that it is something someone poored an awful lot of time into.
Remember that it is something that, though maybe not right for youself, it was
right for someone else.
Remember that it is something that belongs to someone that cared more about
what other people wanted to ultimately do that he wanted to do himself.
Imagine the fun and literally -THOUSANDS- of hours of enjoyment that this
character may have created. Not only for the person to whom played it. But
for everyone that played with that person as well.
Imagine the level of the term "Epic" that must have surrounded this character.
Imagine that this "Nightmare" is not your own, it was something someone else
went through and is now offering up to the world to see. As a sort of memento
of what has happened before and what could happen again if people aren't going
to learn to understand "Sacrifice" one damn bit.
No, Binder is not a character for every campaign world. But he is something
that works in ANY campaign world. But that isn't the character I guess. I
guess that is the lessons learned by the player of that character. Who has
had his own games cross the lines of near-extinction more times than he cares
to remember (and he remembers them all sadly). Were Binder to be in your
games, as NPC or PC (an event that if I win the Lottery ever, I would love to
do) I only ask that you think about the type of person he represents.
Not his power level, as numbers are so hard for most of us to see past at any
given moment.
Not the fact that you know you aren't reading everything, simply because so
much of the sheet has (10+) or (20+) written on it the strangest of places.
Just remember that the guy who made him isn't a destroyer of a game. He's the
one who made an 14 (I finally added them all up right) year promise come to
fulfillment.
The promise?
I made a promise once to one of the guys that taught me how to play AD&D all
those years ago that I would never forget their story, regardless of whatever
happened to us as people.
I didn't. And it took me enough perserverance to rival Christ I like to think
to see that story to the end.
That character is part of that story.
No, not every character with these power levels will be like this. In fact, I
can probably guarantee that most of them won't be. I wish everyone out there
would simply enjoy the game all the time. Most of us do, otherwise we
wouldn't want to spend hours a week (some of us a day, hey Nexx??? :) to
getting to know what other gamers like to do. What makes them and their game
worlds tick as it were.
What would happen were I allowed to play "Binder" with a number of the "Old
Group". I don't know. He'd probably get them all into a big bar, like the
Rhino in Seattle or something, make sure he bought them one good round of
drinks with a toast "to Old Friends and Older Memories".
He'd then toss in more karmic force and desire into the casting of a single
spell, one that could only be cast by a magician once ever in his life.
Because it would utlize his Life as the power behind.
He'd probably kill them all, especially the ones that thought they knew him
and wondered what happened when their "friend" decided they weren't
"friends"
anymore.
Of course, he'd die to. Only the Hat would be left behind, knowing that
stupid legend that surrounds it now....
-K
PS...sorry for the rant. I do honestly know the difference between a "Power
Gamer" a "Munchkin" and "Role Playing". I just added
"Patience" and
"Longevity" to the list as well....
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 22:51:45 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners
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In a message dated 5/7/98 6:53:09 PM US Eastern Standard Time, erikj@****.COM
writes:
> To try and drag this kicking and screaming back on-topic, how old are your
> PCs? Excepting any munchy IEs and the like that is.
Hey now, watch that munching...someone's gonna get hurt... :P
> It's been my experience that most runner are between 18 and 25. Anyone
> notably older than that (Keith, I know you have one or two there)? My own
> primary PC is I think 32 years old; nearly ancient by SR standards I think.
Binder is ... old ... he doesn't really know his true age anymore. But he's
not immortal, he just lived with a twisted curse for a while. For those who
understand this term, he's something of a "Slider", and isn't even sure where
"Home" really is anymore either. Erik, why do you think he studied Metamagic
so heavily when we did that "bit convo" in the bar? He is looking still ...
Prophet (for those of TK that remember him ;) is a kid, who looks older than
he is (actually 16, but thanks to genetics, he's mid 20's physically).
Shivowtnoeh. Good ol' Shivy. My first SR character. The Siberian Shaper
Tiger Hermetic Magician. Yes, for those lucky TK people, the -BIG CAT- was
me, he just never spoke up. In the original game timeline, he died of "old
age" at about 48 or so. He was started at age 39. He was the one true "Force
of Nature" I ever allowed myself to go animate with in a game. Sometimes I
wish I could -really- play him again. (oh the the one true longing for First
Edition that I have)
> Anyway, sorry for rambling and taking this topic so far astray from SR. I
> guess I'm just getting senile in my old age... ;-)
This little ol' post, a rambling??? Nah, that other one I put out...that's a
rambling.. :)
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 22:54:40 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Possible Vehicle Economy Fix
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In a message dated 5/7/98 6:59:13 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
wgallas@*****.FR writes:
> >BTW, IMO, all micro sized drones should be electric powered.
>
> Do you really use economics during game sessions ?
>
OH YEAH!!! But then again remember, our game is -truly- International. Fuel
for that DAMN helicopter alone kills off 1 in 3 runs worth of money....why on
earth do you think we build Magic/Tech mergers here so much? Spells that
augment lift and/or "efficiency of operation". Specific variations on ruling
for Movement for Nature Spirits and many elementals.
Oh yeah, Economics is the BASIS of SR, Corporate OR Runner...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 23:01:51 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: ENOUGH!!! (Re: Shadowrun: Off course! (loong!))
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In a message dated 5/7/98 7:42:19 PM US Eastern Standard Time, erikj@****.COM
writes:
> Damn it, I wish this concept would just die. FASA IS NOT DROPPING MAGIC
> FROM SHADOWRUN!!! There, did I yell loud enough for you to hear?
>
> >Quit screwing with magic,
> >FASA. Don't fix what ain't broken. If you find magic too powerful, step
> >up the competition, or tone down what mojo players get.
>
> Magic in SR works great, better than any other system, I believe. But it
> sure as hell isn't perfect and Steve Kenson and FASA are working very hard
> to fix those elements that *are* broken; and there are things that are
> broken and need to be fixed. That's probably part of the purpose for SR3.
>
OKAY!!! Folks, I am really sorry for ever starting this topic (check the
logs, this is MINE). I have always known that FASA wasn't going to drop
magic, and have talked with others at FASA to prove that fact (and if the HD
hadn't crashed, those recordings I had would still be in tact).
Steve K. is working his mind, body, soul, and imaginative spirit ragged on the
new magic (among other things) for FASA's SR3. Why do think I am going to
GenCon this year? Come on, this one is important to see and hear and meet.
Magic does need help, and I think it's the BEST magic system of any of the
RPG's in general. But that help even needs help.
My only complaint that I have had is that I just wish (longing here) that
Steve wasn't working on this "apparently alone". I know that his worked is
perused by others, but he's the one we on the list at least, hear the most
about (exposure problems???).
But the ideas that the new magic is being based upon are obviously somewhat
set at this point (a year or six months ago, maybe/maybe not). The fine
tunings are just not fixed up yet.
Damn, it's late and I still don't have the chapter for the PBEM...gotta keep
plowing here...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 23:54:30 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Philippe Garneau <aaa302@*****.ULAVAL.CA>
Subject: Shooting Blanks in the 2050's
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Hello all,
Just to mention an bit of info that have been percolating in my weird mind
for a couple of days.
Researchers in fertility research (in the 1990s) are concerned on the
rapid diminution of sperm counts in Occidental men. According to the
scientific litterature, it's likely that this diminution can be caused by
exposition to diverse airborne/water pollutants. As high sperm counts are
primordial to the male fertility, a general decrease of that would result in
widespread fertility problems.
As the levels of pollution in Shadowrun's 2050s cities have augmented
(the Seattle sourcebook mentions Stage 4 smog alerts for many days a year,
especially in the Barrens, not to mention the vivid description of
Technoctitlan), it's probable that fertility issues have risen to an
alarming level. This could affect PC's lifes directly (if they try to
conceive children), or indirectly, as player's contacts mentions having
problems getting their families started. This would of course generate a
larger market for in-vitro fertilization and other fertility treatments,
that corps of all size would exploit. A GM can integrate the idea in
multiple ways, such as:
- silly "sperm raid" on a clinic for reselling in a poorer neighborhood;
- extractions of highly specialized genecologists from a corp to another;
- getting a mage (forcefully or not) to provide a sample of his semen for a
rich woman that absolutely wants a magically active baby (that the stuff
serves quite well as a ritual link sure is a nice complication);
- close protection of a foetus-bearing mother;
- all sorts of eugenic stuff (think Humanis policlub or see Gattaca for
specific ideas);
- etc. (add your own to the list and post it).
Have fun!
_____________________________________________________
Philippe Garneau
Bachelier en Sciences, Microbiologie
Godzilla lives again! -> Memorial Day, 1998
