From:	Unknown sender
Subject:	None
Date:	Unknown time and date

At 12:12 PM 5/7/98 -0600, you wrote:

>>and it was a pain in the ass too! '-2 to Power Level/ +1 Wound Level and it
>>makes the damage code of a Browning Max-Power with Firepower ammo....'
>>personally, i was very relieved when they started using 2 as the Staging
>>number for everything in SR2.
>
>
>hmm... how DOES 5D4 work as a damage code?


As I recall from the back of SR2 BBB, 5D4 would be translated as 7D. A 3L1
would become 2L.

See, the four was the staging number; instead needing two succcess to stage
something up or down, in the case of 5D4 you would need *four* successes.
What's harder to get, two successes at TN7, or four success at TN5?
Without knowning math as well as I should, but I would think it turns out
to be roughly the same (5D4 and 7D). What really threw things off was that
armor, instead of reducing the TN to resist as in SR2, instead gave you
automatic successes. So your armor jacket gave you *five* automatic
successes against anything ballistic. So with that 3L1 light pistol, the
attacker *had* to roll oodles of successes, because the target with an
armor jacket had a head start of five successes going for him. And that
didn't factor in the Body resistance or the use of the SR1 pools, which was
also different from SR2.

The reason why I didn't like it was that you had to know an extra number
for all damage and drain codes. It wasn't a huge problem, but it wasn't as
clean or as elegant as the standard staging of two for SR2. And SR1
physads with autosuccesses with melee attacks were just hell-on-wheels;
hardly anybody could beat one in melee. Of course, in SR2 physads are a
bit wimpy for my taste, so I'm hoping they will be powered up in SR3.

Erik J.


Resepected Elders Relaxation Resort Activites Director

"Hey, how about a game of first edition using only the Blue Book?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:15:13 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: ILs
In-Reply-To: <199805071339.HAA12376@******.carl.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 07:39 AM 5/7/98 -0600, you wrote:

>/ Is this becoming an Immortal Listmembers thread now?
>/
>/ Damn IL's are behind everything!
>
>Yes, yes we are ;)
>
>(Think about it.)

Please, please don't do that again. I nearly starting laughing out loud in
the middle of the office. As is was, one of the people walking by couldn't
understand why I had this huge idiot grin on my face and silently chuckling.

But it probably is true David. It's probably true.

Erik J.

Buying more grenades, are we?


Resepected Elders Relaxation Resort Activites Director

"Hey, how about a game of first edition using only the Blue Book?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:16:23 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun without magic?
In-Reply-To: <40bee567.3551caea@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:53 AM 5/7/98 EDT, TalonMail wrote:
>There have been many posts and speculations on the list recently to the
effect
>that "FASA is reducing/removing magic from Shadowrun." Speaking as the guy
who
>is hard at work on the Magic chapter for Shadowrun 3 and what will
probably be
>the largest Magic Sourcebook Shadowrun has ever seen, I have to tell you that
>nothing could be further from the truth.

Yippee! Hey Steve, any vague ideas of when that Big Book O'Magic might
possibly be in our grubby little hands? I'm drooling over that.


>There is an effort to balance the fantasy elements with more technology,
>politics, corporate action, and such. As people have pointed out, there was a
>point where every major event in the Sixth World was triggered by a
>spirit/dragon/immortal elf, and that took away from the other things that are
>cool about Shadowrun, like the Matrix, cybertech, the corps and all that
other
>stuff. Products like Cyberpirates and Blood in the Boardroom are addressing
>that.

I'm hoping that this balancing act will continue on with SR3; I'm expecting
it in fact. Mike seems to have gone through an awful lot of trouble to get
tings moving in this direction and I would hate for it to be blown
off-course by something.

>I'm disappointed by the number of folks who think FASA isn't heading in the
>right direction with Shadowrun. I've been very proud to work with Mike on the
>game in the past few years. If you do feel SR is going the wrong way, all I
>can tell you is to fill out your product response cards and let FASA know
what
>you like and what you don't like. And, as Bull pointed out, send in a product
>proposal or two.

Actually, Steve, I think it's mostly just your normal bitchin' and moanin'
that is common on any list. I think most people are generally happy with
what FASA is doing, but I think that there are those that are nervous about
what will happen next. IE's and the like are being pushed back to the
background; will FASA stop in time to prevent them from being totally
eliminated from canon? That's the worry methinks.

>Okay, back to work on the magic stuff.

<sound of whip crack>
Get back to work MagicBoy!
</sound of whip crack>

BTW, Steve, do you know the status on the new addition to the Mulvihill
family?

The last time we heard big non-game news out of FASA it was the death of
Nigel; I think many of us here would like to congratulate Mike and Sharon
on a more happy occassion for FASA. I already did, sneaking it into
another e-mail I sent him.

Hey, maybe we could do like what we did with Nigel and have Adam send a
"list card," an e-mail expressing our congratulations from the entire list
in one e-mail.

Put my name on the "e-card" anyway.

Erik J.


Resepected Elders Relaxation Resort Activites Director

"Hey, how about a game of first edition using only the Blue Book?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:28:20 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Vagabond <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: How much down time?
Content-Type: text/plain

>Questions for the list:
>
>How much downtime do your characters usually have between runs?

Sometimes it's a 3 days, or can be up to 3 months. Depending on my
mood, the weather, the state of the world, etc..
Usually, though, I give them enough time to heal from their
wounds... usually <EGMG>

>
>How many runs per game year do your groups fit in?

Depends on the first question. :) To be honest, I never really
counted...

>
>What is the average grade of initiacy that your magically actives
attain?

Since my group is about as magically active as Madator, there are
only a couple of characters my PCs have that they have kept long enough
to initiate(they make mages in Assets, Inc look like salty vetrans). I
think none of them are above Grade 1 or 2.

>
>How about average skill rating. ie: Lots of sixes and higher? Sixes
and
>lower?

SInce like to keep my games low-power, nothing usually goes higher
than six, some of the higher karma characters have one or two 8s, but
that's rare.

>
>Just trying to get a feel for where people are at. Probably all over
>the map, but I'd appreciate your input on this.

LIke I said, I like to keep my PCs low-power(I'm *extremely*
anti-munchkin to the point of paranoia<g>). Usually if a PC makes the
100 karma mark, I tell them it's time to think about retirement.
However, after talkin to some folks on the list and IRC, I'm thinkin
about extending that mark just to see what happens.

-Vagabond
"Under wandering stars I've grown"
________________________________________________________
<nomad74@*******.com> <ICQ 4297972>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:33:09 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Traveling Quiz
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Once upon a time, Ereskanti wrote;

>I'm bored, don't have to work today, so I'm gonna take up MC23's "Poll" for
>the fun of it.

<dripping sarcasm>
Oh thank you
</dripping sarcasm>

Maybe I should have questioned power level as well. Being able to go
head to head (more or less) with IE's hardly falls within the standard
scope of most campaigns and I couldn't imagine one such as yours limited
to one city anyway.

Now with that out of the way, how many of the traditional street
level campaigns involve travel?

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:39:55 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Michael Broadwater wrote:
>>Wow, I've seen some trolls in my time, but that was one of the more
>>annoying.
>
>Don't you hate it when you snip to much?
>
>"And if you'll look closely the top of an X looks like the top of a
>Y. So a Y is a different looking X, and vice versa. So from one
>viewpoint, "X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
>different." works."
>
>Is what I was refering to. And, to clarify my point, while David meant
>this as humor (I think), this is illogical, and he knows it (or should).
>The only possible reason you make an arguement like this is to get people
>to keep arguing. The cake analogy makes more sense. I'd like to see
>anyone get through a math or logic course using the previous statement.

Heh - one of the things that I learned in my logic courses at UW
was that you can build logical systems to prove whatever you want.
It's just a matter of choosing appropriate axioms to derive the
rest of the system from, and then convincing everybody that those
were the right axioms to choose... :-)

James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:37:36 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: ILs
In-Reply-To: <199805071923.NAA00492@******.carl.org> from "Erik Jameson"
at
May 7, 98 03:15:13 pm
Content-Type: text

Erik Jameson wrote:
/
/ At 07:39 AM 5/7/98 -0600, you wrote:
/
/ >/ Is this becoming an Immortal Listmembers thread now?
/ >/
/ >/ Damn IL's are behind everything!
/ >
/ >Yes, yes we are ;)
/ >
/ >(Think about it.)
/
/ Please, please don't do that again. I nearly starting laughing out loud in
/ the middle of the office. As is was, one of the people walking by couldn't
/ understand why I had this huge idiot grin on my face and silently chuckling.

:) Sorry 'bout that. You think you've got it bad, my desk faces all
of my employees (kinda like a classroom). Every now and then I
realize that I've had a stupid grin on my face for at least five
minutes because of something I'm reading from ShadowRN. My employees just
think I'm a happy guy :)

/ Buying more grenades, are we?

By the truckload.

-David
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:41:05 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
In-Reply-To: <199805071902.NAA29547@******.carl.org> from "Michael
Broadwater"
at May 7, 98 02:01:23 pm
Content-Type: text

Michael Broadwater wrote:
/
/ >At 07:51 AM 5/7/98 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:
/
/ Don't you hate it when you snip to much?
/
/ >"And if you'll look closely the top of an X looks like the top of a
/ >Y. So a Y is a different looking X, and vice versa. So from one
/ >viewpoint, "X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
/ >different." works."
/
/ Is what I was refering to. And, to clarify my point, while David meant
/ this as humor (I think), this is illogical, and he knows it (or should).
/ The only possible reason you make an arguement like this is to get people
/ to keep arguing. The cake analogy makes more sense. I'd like to see
/ anyone get through a math or logic course using the previous statement.

Sorry. Wasn't meant to be a troll. Although James and I are in a
lively private conversation :)

And my defense would be that I've been getting into philosophy quite
a bit lately.

-David
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:43:02 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Once upon a time, Erik Jameson wrote;

>The reason why I didn't like it was that you had to know an extra number
>for all damage and drain codes. It wasn't a huge problem, but it wasn't as
>clean or as elegant as the standard staging of two for SR2. And SR1
>physads with autosuccesses with melee attacks were just hell-on-wheels;
>hardly anybody could beat one in melee. Of course, in SR2 physads are a
>bit wimpy for my taste, so I'm hoping they will be powered up in SR3.

I could never accept that the variable staging didn't hinder you
while it helped you. Sure a staging 4 was a bitch to save down but it was
just as much hell to stage up! What's the use in that? When 2nd edition
came out we were happy. Only the Karma Pool would later become our bane
(and we even award Karma sparingly when compared to others).

>Respected Elders Relaxation Resort Activities Director
>
>"Hey, how about a game of first edition using only the Blue Book?"

First printing hardback or 3rd printing perfect bound?
B>]#

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:49:06 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Gurth wrote:
>> Armor reducing power was a good idea, though, rather than automatic
>> resistance successes. (Heretic, I know. I'm not *THAT* old, just 26.).
>
>A combination of the two would work very well, I think -- keep the revised
>Power Levels of SRII and the way armor works, but add in the Staging rules
>of SR1.

This sounds like a net.project - converting all the new goodies over
to SR1 damage codes...

James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:46:26 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Traveling Quiz
In-Reply-To: <199805071936.NAA01074@******.carl.org> from "MC23" at May
7,
98 03:33:09 pm
Content-Type: text

MC23 wrote:
/
/ Now with that out of the way, how many of the traditional street
/ level campaigns involve travel?

Mine is kinda 50/50. I'll run a home game, followed by an away game, and
then back home again, not necessarily in that order :)

To date the away games have been in: NYC, a run involving a
continental run across North America, an island north of Norway, Tir
Na Og (Celtic Doublecross), Chicago, and Denver.

I like the away adventures because it takes the runners off their
home turf and shakes them up. Sure, in Seattle everything is peaches
and cream (respectivley). Send em to another city and they've gotta
be quick thinkers.

In the future they'll be going to Hawaii and Washington DC.

-David
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:48:40 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
In-Reply-To: <199805071939.NAA01286@******.carl.org> from "Ojaste,James
[NCR]"
at May 7, 98 03:39:55 pm
Content-Type: text

Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote:
/
/ Michael Broadwater wrote:
/ >>Wow, I've seen some trolls in my time, but that was one of the more
/ >>annoying.
/ >
/ >Don't you hate it when you snip to much?
/ >
/ >"And if you'll look closely the top of an X looks like the top of a
/ >Y. So a Y is a different looking X, and vice versa. So from one
/ >viewpoint, "X would still be X if it didn't have Y, it would just be
/ >different." works."
/ >
/ >Is what I was refering to. And, to clarify my point, while David meant
/ >this as humor (I think), this is illogical, and he knows it (or should).
/ >The only possible reason you make an arguement like this is to get people
/ >to keep arguing. The cake analogy makes more sense. I'd like to see
/ >anyone get through a math or logic course using the previous statement.
/
/ Heh - one of the things that I learned in my logic courses at UW
/ was that you can build logical systems to prove whatever you want.
/ It's just a matter of choosing appropriate axioms to derive the
/ rest of the system from, and then convincing everybody that those
/ were the right axioms to choose... :-)

Or in my case, plain old Xioms :-D

-David-who's-agoin-straight-to-hell-for-that-one
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:50:11 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Hedley <hedley@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Farts Club
In-Reply-To: <l03110703b176ec5e6b28@[100.100.100.10]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hedley - Age: 34 years. Three daughters; ages 15, 14, and 14 months. No
wonder I have so little time for gaming anymore...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:13:40 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <runefo@***.uio.no>
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Organization: The University of Oslo
Subject: Re: How much down time?
In-Reply-To: <21a16bef.3551b46c@***.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> > Questions for the list:
> >
> > How much downtime do your characters usually have between runs?

Varies. Lately about two weeks, but they're in a 'long haul
continuous assignment' at the moment, so it'll be as soon as they're
back on their feet.

> > How many runs per game year do your groups fit in?
Varies. A lot. Between 10 and 50, I'd say. Depends what you mean with
a run as well.


> > What is the average grade of initiacy that your magically actives attain?
*ponder*

1
(The only really long campaign the runners were in, there was no
mages.).

> > How about average skill rating. ie: Lots of sixes and higher? Sixes and
> > lower?
1 at 7+,
the rest at 3 or 6.
(3-4 skills at 6, 0-3 at 3 is common.).

(Discounting physad skills).


> > Just trying to get a feel for where people are at. Probably all over
> > the map, but I'd appreciate your input on this.
Physically we're located in Norway. The characters are in Seattle
(Of course) but sometimes goes to other places.

--
Fade

And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:56:13 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lander Williams <lander@****.WAVE.CA>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the SingleShadowrunner(t
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>>hmm... how DOES 5D4 work as a damage code?
>
>Well, it acts just like 5D, except that instead of every 2 successes
>staging the damage up or down, it takes 4 successes.
>
>So, to apply this knowledge practically, if you had a newbie runner
>who wasn't very accurate with a pistol, you'd want something with
>a high staging (to make it less likely that the target could stage
>it away, as you'd probably get fewer successes). An expert, however,
>would probably choose a weapon with a low staging on the expectation
>that they'd get more successes than the opponent, and so they'd get
>to stage the damage up.


after i posted i sorta figured it, tho the confirmation doe much for my
poor ego :)

>It basically allows for a more intelligent choice of weapons than
>"I'll grab a heavy pistol - which one doesn't matter, 'cause they're
>all 9M"...


<nods> i dont really like that.. boring :)

>More weapon variety, more weapon personality - it's a much cooler
>system and I hope that they switch back to it in SR3 (though unlikely,
>I'll admit).

i like it.. ill have to dig up stuff on it (i.e. weapon charts)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:58:07 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
In-Reply-To: <199805071944.PAA12371@******.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

On 7 May 98 at 15:43, MC23 wrote:

> I could never accept that the variable staging didn't hinder you
> while it helped you. Sure a staging 4 was a bitch to save down but
> it was just as much hell to stage up! What's the use in that?

That brings back a memory. I friend of mine who I was trying to get
interested in Shadowrun brought up the same point. We argued forever
about that. The way I see it, is that a high staging typically
equalizes the damage at its base value. A weapon with a low staging
slides up and down more easily, so is more variable.

I still prefer the variety of variable staging, but I do understand
why they changed it.

> When 2nd edition came out we were happy. Only the Karma Pool would later
> become our bane (and we even award Karma sparingly when compared to
> others).

Yes. I couldn't get him to play until SR2 came out. I didn't tell him
I was still using SR1 Karma rules, though. :)

--
=================================================================
-DREKHEAD- drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
==================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 21:58:41 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <runefo@***.uio.no>
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Organization: The University of Oslo
Subject: Re: Shadowrun without magic?
In-Reply-To: <40bee567.3551caea@***.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Shit that one wasn't supposed to go to the list.
Sorry guys.

--
Fade

And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 21:57:56 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <runefo@***.uio.no>
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Organization: The University of Oslo
Subject: Re: Shadowrun without magic?
In-Reply-To: <40bee567.3551caea@***.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> Okay, back to work on the magic stuff.
>
> Take care,
> Steve

For my part it seemed Shadowrun was heading towards 'Earthdawn 2060'
which, in my opinion, wasn't good at all. I prefer the 'corporate',
darker world which isn't as 'epic', but a lot more challenging.. and
satisfying.

Keep up the good work!

--
Fade

And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:08:44 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
MIME-Version: 1.0
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MC23 wrote:
>>The reason why I didn't like it was that you had to know an extra number
>>for all damage and drain codes. It wasn't a huge problem, but it wasn't as
>>clean or as elegant as the standard staging of two for SR2. And SR1
>>physads with autosuccesses with melee attacks were just hell-on-wheels;
>>hardly anybody could beat one in melee. Of course, in SR2 physads are a
>>bit wimpy for my taste, so I'm hoping they will be powered up in SR3.
>
> I could never accept that the variable staging didn't hinder you
>while it helped you. Sure a staging 4 was a bitch to save down but it was
>just as much hell to stage up! What's the use in that? When 2nd edition

Well, if you expect to be able the hit the target, but not well,
then you want to make it as tough as possible for the target to
stage it down.

On the other hand, if you're really good you want a staging of 1,
so you can stage that sucker up so high that the target can't stage
it back down agin.

>came out we were happy. Only the Karma Pool would later become our bane
>(and we even award Karma sparingly when compared to others).

The KP rules need work. Lots of work.

James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:10:57 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Panther <qmilton@**.NET>
Subject: Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980506134113.284fbbbe@**********.com>
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>
> This was even true of magicians, though in a different way. They
> had their life pretty much taken up by being a magician. You either
> dedicated your life to it, were defined by being a magician, or you
> were not. If you were not, you might do some magic, but you'd never
> reach anything like your real potential. Obsession was not really
> optional.

That's just it. Physads, when played correctly, have the same (or at
least similar) obsession that mages have. Take a look at todays
martial artists and athletes for example. They are CONSTANTLY
training. At least the ones that are actually serious about it
(those also have a distinct tendency to be the best at what they do).
THAT is the price that physads pay, the time and effort spent in
training, to keep their bodies and minds honed to a razor sharp edge.
Take a break (or even quit) training, and they lose that edge.

And the concept of bioware actually seems kinda realistic to me. It
makes sense, IMO. :)

Pantherr

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Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:19:35 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Vehicle Economy (was RE: What is a CF?)
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>
>Throughout the chassis/engine rules, they seem to forget about
small/micro
>rotordrones (the kind that fit into the palm of your hand). That's the
>only way I can reason that under one of the fuel entries, the list that
all
>rotor drones can carry that same 120 liters of fuel. From the micro to
the
>mansized. And within that drone, would there be room for the engine,
the
>sensors, that CF of cargo space that you allegedly have, and any other
>goodies that would come standard?
>

Hey, what about it, Jon? Got some micro/mini vehicle construction rules
hanging around somewhere or being compiled for some future upcoming
release?

Tony Rabiola rabiola@**.netcom.com
Fourth and Sixth World Adept
Still working on the Fifth...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:18:50 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: How much down time?
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Once upon a time, Robert Nesius wrote;

>Questions for the list:
>
>How much downtime do your characters usually have between runs?

We have a tendancy to use a rough real time catch up method. so what ever
it takes after a story arc to catch up with current real month is how
long it takes. Easy way to keep up with seasons that way. When there is
alternating campaigns the catch up downtime can be quite a lot.

>How many runs per game year do your groups fit in?

Couldn't even guess

>What is the average grade of initiacy that your magically actives attain?

We might have had a second grade in one of the campaigns

>How about average skill rating. ie: Lots of sixes and higher? Sixes and
>lower?

I think I had a 7 once but Cavalier is no longer alive to use it.

>Just trying to get a feel for where people are at. Probably all over
>the map, but I'd appreciate your input on this.

The three different campaigns had us in either Seattle, Charlotte or New
Orleans.

I should also point out that our games here typically reward 2-3 pts of
Karma per game session. I think that puts us on the stingy side but it
works just great for us.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:12:02 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Earl ClayIII <phoenixflare@*******.COM>
Subject: Shasdowrun: Off course! (loong!)
Content-Type: text/plain

I think FASA (Mulvihill specifically) is quite a bit off lately.
Mulvihill seems to basically hate the game we all love & wants to make
all these drastic changes to make it more "his" game as opposed to
Dowd's. While he's certainly done some cool stuff, (Companion) he's also
made some choices ranging from simply a little bland (Corp War thing-
who cares?) all the way to near-disastrous (Rigger 2- so complicated it
makes riggers near unuseable). A few points:
* Magic- without it, the game is Cyberpunk with different rules, NOT
Shadowrun. The world would be nothing the same. Howling Coyote would be
in a camp, as would all the few surviving Injuns. They would NOT have
been able to get nukes or whatnot except for magic's help. Even had they
the atmosphere would be shot to hell. Same for the Tir's, Aztlan,
Saeder-Krupp, et al. Shadowrun's defining characteristic may well be the
bizarre & sinister mix of magic & machine. Quit screwing with magic,
FASA. Don't fix what ain't broken. If you find magic too powerful, step
up the competition, or tone down what mojo players get. I have played
since the day 1st ed. came out & have yet to have ONE person earn
initiation... See also the new rules for metamagic in the Companion.
* Cyber- bioware shouldn't let players off easy since it should be hell
to get, not to mention it usually has side effects. Physads pay dearly
for their power & don't get as powerful as a sam. The point is, sure
you're supposed to pay for your edge but if you handle it right, so does
everybody.
* Horrors, IE's & the Tirs, oh my!- I thought these were neat but only
in real limited quantity. They are way overused now. Ditto all the super
high level epic scale stuff. We're lousy plex rats... we have no part in
this stuff. It's only fun to deal with omnipotent stuff if you're
omnipotent enough to compete... which runners should not be.
* Non-shadowrunner campaigns- Theses are already way out of hand. Cool
as a diversion, but ultimately a distraction from the point. We really
don't need these 'other types of games' that keep pushing... can anyone
say, 'Cyberpirates'? They can't do a Japan book, but they do give us
'Blood in the Boardroom'... great.
There's my dollar ninety-fine worth... if I seem a little harsh, it's
just because I love ya Mulvihill, & I'd hate to see Shadowrun go the way
of 'Vampire"...


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:30:43 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun without magic?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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>There have been many posts and speculations on the list recently to the
effect
>that "FASA is reducing/removing magic from Shadowrun." Speaking as the
guy who
>is hard at work on the Magic chapter for Shadowrun 3 and what will
probably be
>the largest Magic Sourcebook Shadowrun has ever seen, I have to tell
you that
>nothing could be further from the truth.
>

Coolness! We've already got some terrific SB's for magic the way it
is, and a big new one to go with SR3 should be a treat, if it is larger
to provide more clarifications and examples.

>FASA and Mike Mulvihill know full well that the magic/fantasy elements
of
>Shadowrun are some of the game's greatest strengths, that seperated SR
from
>all the other "cyber/dark future" RPGs. There is NO plan to remove
magic from
>SR.
>

I was thinking that was a off-hand comment that developed a life of its
own...

>There is an effort to balance the fantasy elements with more
technology,
>politics, corporate action, and such. As people have pointed out, there
was a
>point where every major event in the Sixth World was triggered by a
>spirit/dragon/immortal elf, and that took away from the other things
that are
>cool about Shadowrun, like the Matrix, cybertech, the corps and all
that other
>stuff. Products like Cyberpirates and Blood in the Boardroom are
addressing
>that.
>

Cyberpirates rocks! Just let me get those cocky PC's out on a ship
island-hopping and see how tough they are...(grin)

>I'm disappointed by the number of folks who think FASA isn't heading in
the
>right direction with Shadowrun. I've been very proud to work with Mike
on the
>game in the past few years. If you do feel SR is going the wrong way,
all I
>can tell you is to fill out your product response cards and let FASA
know what
>you like and what you don't like. And, as Bull pointed out, send in a
product
>proposal or two.
>

I think it is more to do with just change in general, Steve, though all
of us probably have particular feelings on where we would like to see
our favorite game go. Keep up the quality and listen to the consumers,
life FASA always has, and things will be fine.

>Okay, back to work on the magic stuff.
>

That's the spirit!

Tony Rabiola rabiola@**.netcom.com
Fourth and Sixth World Adept
Still working on the Fifth...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:32:15 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Panther <qmilton@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980506143404.266fa06a@****.fbiz.com>
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>
> Hey, maybe we should start an old man's club on RN, gotta be at
> least 25 or older. You could put "RN Geriatric Brigade" or
> something in your .sig and be allowed one post per thread going on
> about "back in my day, we didn't have the Internet, we had to read
> RN with smoke signals..."

Gee, in only four more years I could be a part of that.....

Pantherr

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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:53:18 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: RP Karma award (was Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks))
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

---Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET> wrote:
>
> |> Subject: RP Karma award (was Re: Sex & the Single
Shadowrunner(thanks))
>
> |> > I personally dislike the RP karma award, since it's...
rewarding the
> |> > character for something the player should be doing anyway.
> |> Roleplaying is,
> |> > after all, the point of this game. It doesn't make sense for
> |> a character
> |> > to gain experience and 'luck' because he is so completely
> |> 'himself' that day.
>
> Well, I don't see it that way at all, but this is a valid
viewepoint I
> guess. I see it as a case of rewarding the PLAYER for playing his part
> correctly. If you view it as a reward to the player, rather than the
> character, then reward for staying in character makes sense. True,
as you
> say, role-playing is the point of the game, ergo it should be
encouraged and
> rewarded.

I agree whole heartedly with Katt on this one, in fact I was just
discussing this with Loki the other day. Basically a RP award is
given out on rare occasions in my group and then generally to the more
munchkinous of the group as a way to offer positive reinforcment of a
learned behavior...much like training a dog, it lets the person know
that "Hey the rest of the group thought that I did a bang up job, I
should do it some more." Over the years it has greatly enhanced the
amount of good roleplaying that we get from members of our group. I
can honestly say now, and I realize without playing with most of you
on the list, that I feel we have one of the best RP based gaming
groups in Phoenix...and of all the ones I have witnessed/played in
certainly the best regular SR game. Now I admit that this is biased
and I have by no means had direct interaction with even most of the SR
games out there, but going off of some horror stories that I have
heard and lived through myself...life is good right now and RP karma
awards helped get us there.

Caric-the-damn-I-can-run-at-the-mouth-sometimes-shaman
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 17:06:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Once upon a time, Drekhead wrote;

>Yes. I couldn't get him to play until SR2 came out. I didn't tell him
>I was still using SR1 Karma rules, though. :)

With my new campaign I've gone back as well. Karma Pools cannot be saved
IMNSHO.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:07:21 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

----------
> From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
> > Armor reducing power was a good idea, though, rather than automatic
> > resistance successes. (Heretic, I know. I'm not *THAT* old, just 26.).
>
> A combination of the two would work very well, I think -- keep the
revised
> Power Levels of SRII and the way armor works, but add in the Staging
rules
> of SR1.

I agree (and I'm not even an old guy <g>). After all, which bullet is
going to be easier to shrug off: the hold out pistol bullet the size of
the last joint of my pinky, or the coke-can sized shell of a Panther
Cannon? Sure, that's partially damage code, but its a lot easier to miss
vital organs with a tiny shell that leaves a small hole than a huge shell
that leaves a hole the size of a basketball.

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
"Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn lasts
forever"
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
"Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo the
better part of humor."
aka Ellegon, Working at making Cannon canon
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are crunchy
and good with ketchup."
--------[Geek Code Block]-----------
GED/GSS d- s++:+ a-- C++ W w+ PS+.5 PE- Y+ t+
5+ X+ R*+.5 !tv+ b+.5 DI+ D- G e h !r-- !y+
-------[End Geek Code Block]-------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 17:08:36 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Brian Moore <mooreb@****.FAC.COM>
Subject: Re: Talismongering
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980506182447.006924b0@***.mindspring.com> from
"Joshua Bell" at May 6, 98 06:24:47 pm
Content-Type: text

Joshua Bell <joshbell@**********.COM> said:
> Brian Moore wrote:
> >And yes it is a good way to make money. But there are even more abusive
> >ways to make money using Enchanting. A decent enchanter can make a Force
> >3 Power Focus in a week or two, worth around 300knY, or 90knY at 30%
> >"wholesale price". There really isn't a good way to handle PC
enchanters
> >given how easy it is to create IMHO significantly overpriced foci. IMC,
> >my mage is the only PC enchanter, and he only makes foci for the members
> >of his (PC) Initiatory group. He charges for the foci, but usually less
> >that 25% retail cost and time spent bodyguarding.
>
> I agree. there are several, make that dozens of ways to abuse the plain
> rules of shadowrun. That is why there is a GM so that there is "suspense",
> Continuity, and rules.

Agreed. And this area is definitely one that requires GM supervision.
There is simply too big of a difference between the cost to make focus and
the sale price.

> However, the example of making Orichalcum dosen't cost the mage/shaman any
> good karma, just 44,000 nuyen and 1 month. Making Foci takes time,
> materials, AND karma.

Making foci takes less time and materials, and it doesn't have to cost
Karma.

Making foci usually takes less time than Orichalcum. The absolute time
for Orichalcum is 28 days, no matter what. The base time for any focus
is 30 days, but that is devided by the number of enchanting successes.
(This is ignoring the one time cost for creating or purchasing the focus
design.) A decent enchanter making a reasonably low level focus will
usually take 1 to 2 weeks.

Making foci usually takes less materials. Orichalcum requires 4 specific
radicals (gold, silver, mercury, and copper). Availability and street
index don't exist for radicals (that's a big oversight), so the GM decides
what those numbers are. My mage ended up making half of the radicals from
refined materials because he couldn't find anyone willing to sell the
radicals. And some of those refined materials came from raw materials he
had to gather himself, because no one had any to sell. But a focus can be
made with just the material basis (a stick or a rock will do). Additional
materials (any herb, crystal, or metal radicals) help, and they are easier
to find, far cheaper, and can often be interchanged.

And the big one... Foci DO NOT require the enchanter to pay any karma. The
First Binding karma cost can be paid by the enchanter and/or the person to
receive the focus.

> So even though you can make more money by creating foci, it is a personal
> choice as to weather it is a better way.

True. The big question is whether or not the enchanter can find a steady
supply of customers interested in foci and available at a days notice
(to pay the karma cost RIGHT AFTER the item is finished). If not,
Orichalcum is a better money-maker. But find the right fixer/talismonger
with a large enough customer base, and an enchanter has it made.

--
Brian Moore, mooreb@***.com | I wrote up a nice script to truncate all News&
First Albany Corp. Sysadmin | Mail sigs that are greater than 4 lines long.
standard disclaimers apply | It is still in beta testing due to an off-by-
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 17:08:26 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

OK guys this topic is getting worn thin. It's over.

MC23, ShadowRN GridSec Vigilante
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:11:13 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

----------
> From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>

> Once upon a time, Drekhead wrote;
>
> >Yes. I couldn't get him to play until SR2 came out. I didn't tell him
> >I was still using SR1 Karma rules, though. :)
>
> With my new campaign I've gone back as well. Karma Pools cannot be saved
> IMNSHO.

Can someone give me a run-down on 1st ed Karma rules? I need to find a
BBlB, it seems...

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
"Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn lasts
forever"
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
"Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo the
better part of humor."
aka Ellegon, Working at making Cannon canon
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are crunchy
and good with ketchup."
--------[Geek Code Block]-----------
GED/GSS d- s++:+ a-- C++ W w+ PS+.5 PE- Y+ t+
5+ X+ R*+.5 !tv+ b+.5 DI+ D- G e h !r-- !y+
-------[End Geek Code Block]-------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:13:08 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Re: Tournament GMing
In-Reply-To: <19980506110341453.AAA279@*********.gj.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> I know a couple of people here have... *GRAcoughNITE*

I'm here..I'm here..I had to go to training today [my day off-CPR
and Verbal Judo]..Or I would have answered already..Well here goes..

> At 07:29 PM 5/4/98 -0400, Erik Jameson wrote these timeless words:
> >Okay, I've finally decided that I will GM Shadowrun at the San Diego Comic
> >Con.

Excellent..Keep in mind that most people's greatest fear is speaking
in front of a group..Guess what..That is exactly what you will be
doing..and this group will expect you to entertain them..Sounds
bad..but It isn't all that bad..

>Not many of you actually care, I know.

First things first..That is quite enough of the negativity..No
more..you are the GM..You must be more positive..Or your experience
will not be as great as it should..

> >...... I can GM acceptably well
> >(while I occassionaly forget rules here and there, my players love my
> >playacting of the NPCs, especially Johnny Rotten the fixer), but that's
> >almost always been a group of friends or mostly friends.

Sounds like you are qualified..You are on your way..

> >So does anyone have any advice?

Remember..you asked for it..

>>Any web pages that give pointers to this
> >sort of thing (like maybe GenCon's page)?

Here is GenCon's page:
http://www.andonunlimited.com/CONS/GEN98/index.htm

Not sure if it will be the help you hope it will but there it is
anyway..


>>Anybody actually out there GMed
> >for a tournament or convention?

Yes..I have at GenCon [FASA Tourneys] and at SunQuest..

> >I imagine I probably should have enough pre-generated PCs for everyone, in
> >a mix that's appropriate.

If you do not..you will loose most of your time ti character
generation..

>> And a pile of dice.

Yes..But be careful about lending them out as they are small and
have a tendency to walk away..

>> All the sourcebooks I'll
> >need.

Yup...But only the ones that pertain to the adventure at hand..

>> Caffiene. Several writing utensils and note paper.

Yup..and yup..

>> My GM screen
> >since I have one (I think it's actually a SR1 screen too, but I haven't
> >used it in a while; I keep forgetting it and it's not terribly important
> >anyway; I don't use much written material anyway).

A very important piece of GM equipment which I also have trouble
remembering to bring with me..I do not really use it for the
tables..It is camo for what you are doing behind it..

>> Can anyone think of
> >anything else?

I'll give more explicit suggestions at the end..

> If your lucky, you'll get a group of creative players (I think at least 75%
> of all Con Players are at least semi-decent players, in my experience...
> Unfortunately the other 25% of them make up for this :( ). And creative
> players are experts at completely trashing an adventure by doing the
> totally unexpected.

Well I thing Bull has had different experiances..I have had about 95%
good players..and 5 % bad ones..but the bad ones have been REALLY
BAD..and the good more like excellent..My biggest piece of advice
about good players..If they head off into a different direction..Let
them..everyone will have a better time..As for Bad ones..If they
start getting out of hand Players bickering and such..-put a stop to
it imediately-..Let them know that the gaming table is not the place
for that sort of behavior..if they refuse to stop and it gets
impossible to run the game..stop the game..there is no reason you
have to put up with a bunch of arses..

OK..Now for the straight poop..

1]have your adventure written and prepared well in advance of the
convention [when you are writing it keep in mind players never do the
expected and leave yourself room to maneuver the group back on
course] figure out how difficult you want the game to be and write to
that level..

2] Write your game to fill a 4 hour slot..most cons allot gaming in 4
hour chunks..So be prepared to start and finish in that amount of
time because someone else is going to want your table after you..to
this end wear a watch..If you are getting close start cutting stuff
out..

3] When you are writing try and leave the PCs lots of apparent
options..that way you lend the appearance of allowing free will when
in actuality all paths lead to the same conclusions..

4] Generate all of the PCs and have copies for the players..Most Con
gaming is for approx 6 players..If you want to allow a greater
amount of choice for the players..generate more than enough PCs and
let them choose..this way you will end up with a surprise as to the
group composition..as well as allowing for player personalities
to be expressed better with more comfortable PCs..Give each of the
PCs a short bio..and perhaps include a quick what they think of the
other PCs as well..Create characters that will be able to accomplish
the goals you have set..but create them to have to struggle a bit to
do it..no struggle no fun..Never allow outside PCs into your game
99.99% of the time they will completely unbalance the entire
game..and the last thing you need are even more surprises..

5] Know your adventure forwards and back..that way when your group
takes a weird turn you will be able to better improvise..

6] have at least a fair grasp of the rules..And don't use house
rules..if you do tell the players first thing..Personally I try and
never use any kind of house rules in the convention setting that way
everyone that is familiar with the rules will have no problem playing
in my game..

7] ham it up..If you make a fool of yourself..you will never see
these people again..so ..so what..Have fun..Go wild..if you are
getting into the game then it is a lot easier for the group to get
into it..

8] have the group introduce themselves and their character to the
group after they have read the bio..this helps break the ice a little
and helps you keep in mind who is playing what character..But
don't let this go on too long you only have 4 hours..It is also
helpful to use name tents with space for character and player names..

9] there are any number of props you may use..don't bring anything
dangerous..I use a dry erase board..my particular fav..you can pick
up some really small ones at Wal-Mart, and like stores, that pack
nicely into a suitcase..And I usually use counters from a pente' game
for PC and NPC position marking on my drawings..

10] Do your darndest to keep -all- of the players involved..make the
effort to try and drawn in players that seem to be just sitting
there..

11] Don't forget to bring your GM screen..And essential piece of
equipment..

12] FUDGE..Do not get bogged down in dice..Oh don't get me
wrong..pick up a great big handful and roll them around..but don't
feel tied to their results..do what is going to make a better
game..and will be more cinematic..After all you will not be seeing
these people again and you can afford to give them bigger breaks..You
want them to leave your table excited and gibbering about what a good
time they had..

13] skip 13 I don't like that number..

14] Much better..hmm I'm running out of off the top advice..Have a
good time yourself..if it seems like work to you your players are not
having fun either..

15] Be prepared..Yea..I know this is in here more than once..That is
because it is important..

16] Make sure you complete whatever your obligations to the
con..stuff like collecting tickets is real important to them..and if
you want to play in their sandbox you have to play by their rules..

17] When the game is done..let the players know you had a good time
and that you hope they did too..this lets them know you care about
what you are doing..and that you care that they had a good time..

Well that will have to do for now..I can't think of anything else
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
Kind of a bummer. Gettin' your butt kicked by a dead guy.
- Lt Col McQueen
Understanding is a three edged sword. - Kosh
What do Klingons dream about?
Things that would send cold chills
down your spine...It is better you
did not know.
- Major Norece to Commander Worf
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:04:04 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

---MC23 <mc23@**********.COM> wrote:
>
> Once upon a time, Erik Jameson wrote;
>
> >>Maybe we should start our own rest home.
> >
> >Hey, it could be like Gurth's Stairs, but only us old folks are
allowed in.
> > We could play shuffle board and cribbage and gum our meals!
>
> Screw that "old man," I'll stay out here until the Ragnorok Of
> Flamewars finally takes me, never wavering to the end!
> B>]#

I think that MC23 was a viking berserker in a former life. :) I say
we all go senile and that way we can go on the same run over and over
and over....what was i saying?


Caric-the-*almost*-old-enough-to-join-the-home-but-thinks-there-should-be-an-acception-made-for-him-since-he's-already-lost-tongue-conrol-shaman
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:16:32 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Dice Pools
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dice pools always seemed to be to be a way to get things that should be
part of performing an action as part of an action. After all, the only
way your Sorcery skill impacts Sorcery is through your Magic Pool, and you
Quickness has nothing to do with a skilled firefight... except through the
Combat Pool.

What I'm wondering, though, is if anyone has any other pools they
regularly use, like social pools or athletic pools described in the
Companion, and what they consist of.


***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
"Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn lasts
forever"
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
"Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo the
better part of humor."
aka Ellegon, Working at making Cannon canon
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are crunchy
and good with ketchup."
--------[Geek Code Block]-----------
GED/GSS d- s++:+ a-- C++ W w+ PS+.5 PE- Y+ t+
5+ X+ R*+.5 !tv+ b+.5 DI+ D- G e h !r-- !y+
-------[End Geek Code Block]-------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 22:04:15 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Rigger tank? [was Re : Ridreless blitzen]
In-Reply-To: <354E4046.5364@**********.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

At 04-Mai-98 wrote Wafflemeisters:

>> But this gives me a few ideas ...
>> What's the CF / cost for a full rigger tank? I think the "rigger
>> adaptation" in R2 just represents the computer systems needed to
>> interface with a VCR.
>>

> What is a "rigger tank"? The rigger does not need any special
>seating,
>etc, to rig. If he wants saftey seating, and such, those are available
>in both rigger books. If you really are ludicrously safety concious,
>rig from a "Stabilization Unit"- basic book, biotech equipment. It's
>given a weight, and I'd say it ocupies as much space as a bed or
>non-folding bench seat.

A Rigger tank was indroduced in the novel, the one with Alamis, Nightspaw=
n
IIRC
Its a tube like thing in which the rigger lays down, sudpended by gel pac=
ks
and so
to cut of all outside sensory input, the rigger can only sense and comuni=
cate
over his rig. I use this a long time in my game.
Rigger tank: cost 30000 ¥
CF 15
boni +1d6 ini, every action takes half time, complex->simp=
le
simple->1/2 simple
Avail Military
-- =


Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Did you know what a rhinoceros is?
All that is left from the unicorn.

http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 22:58:45 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Organization: Affilated Artists
Subject: Re: Sex and the single shadowrunner?
In-Reply-To:
<cÊ%a=GOVMT.CANADA%p=GC+EC%lìNCR_EXCH2-980506135811Z-96786@***.ncr.ec.gc.ca
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

At 06-Mai-98 wrote Ojaste,James [NCR]:

ROTFLMAORH

>Base damage done is (Charisma)L. Every two net successes stage by
>one level. The skill used is a special skill, defaulting to Charisma
>at +2. Base TN of 2.

>I hate to do this, but nothing clarifies a new rule like an example...

>Alicia boinks Bob.
>Alicia has a Sex skill of 4, a Cha of 5 and a Will of 3.
>Bob has no Sex skill, a Cha of 3 and a Will of 5.

hmm, trying to follow this....
Cha 35 skill 20, will 4...
NASTY


>>Does that mean Barbie could kill with sex?!

>Let's see - you'd need at least 14 net successes... Of course, you'd
>have to be pretty brave to get intimate with a panther in the first
>place. Having just seen "Cat People" a couple of weeks ago I don't
>think I'd want to try... ;-)

Yes, she can and actually has....
Not in this way since she has somewhat `changed`, you can call it died.

The panther thing is over, been a Succubus/dream spirit with essence
drain power makes the killing much more easy ;-)

--

Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Did you know what a rhinoceros is?
All that is left from the unicorn.

http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:47:41 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Cyberware Power Sources
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Cyberware Power Sources (Was Re: Cyberware: Where do you put the bateries?)
(SThanatos , Wed 18:33)

> >In my musings for today I was contemplating cyberware. I wondered how all
> >of these neat little devices got the power they need to run. Does wired
> >reflexes have a battery pack? If so why isn't it listed so I as a GM can
> >rule that it shorted out at a most inoportune time <display evil_grin>.?.

<tounge in cheek>
I always assumed it drew power from its essence cost, turning essence
sustaining lifeforce into electricty directly.
</tounge in cheek>

> Standardly, neurons produce a charge of 700
> milliwatts in a non-active state.
> If this mechanism could be maginifed, it could also be a source
> of plausable and natural eletrical current.
>

It can be. Electric eels genrate very high voltagees by having many
neurun-like cells "stacked" in series, adding thier volatages like
batteries in series. Similarly, multiple "stacks" in paralel would add
amperage. Given the abiltiy to grow similar cells (easy in SR),
engenering an organized tissue to produce the proper voltages and
currents would be doable, even with TODAYS tech (guided tissue
structuring has produced primitive "liveres" with simplified filter like
structures ofintelaced blood vessels and liver tissue).
Put such an engeneered organ in a cyberlimb, route blood (or blood
filtrates) to it, and WHOLA, organic "Fuel cell battery", plus another
excuse (besides pain) for limb damage to affect the user-the limb
BLEEDS.

-Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:47:50 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)) (Erik
Jameson , Wed 19:10)

> You know what the sad thing is? There are plenty of people on this list
> who simply have no recollection of living like that, who only know about
> the Cold War from books and school. Some of us geezers actually grew up
> with the spectre of the Red Menance and Global Thermonuclear War.

What weirds me out is that the cyberpunk genre is, AFAIK, a very direct
response to the social stresses of the cold war and popular Nihilism.
Of course, the Government isn't doing recent generations any favors, and
in fact, society may be growing more towards the inequitous situations
cyberpunk explores, but I wonder- what draws people to cyberpunk fiction
and SR today? Its not the "pop" medium it was 15 years ago, when
Terminator and Max Headroom were widely accepted popular figures.
Futristic Nihilsm doesn't seem to play as broadly anymore as it once
did. Even SR's new developments seem to reflect this.

Anybody care to comment? Are older SR players a bunch of cynical
holdouts, or is there an unnoticed wave of technosavy nihilists (Marilin
Manson fans DON'T count)?

-Mongoose (old enough to visit the "home", young enough to not want to)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:10:03 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

----------
> From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
> Date: Thursday, May 07, 1998 2:06 PM
>
> Once upon a time, Drekhead wrote;
>
> >Yes. I couldn't get him to play until SR2 came out. I didn't tell him
> >I was still using SR1 Karma rules, though. :)
>
> With my new campaign I've gone back as well. Karma Pools cannot be saved
> IMNSHO.
>

How did the 1st edition pools work? I don't even remember now.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 17:34:23 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: Munchkinism at it's finest
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Thursday, May 07, 1998 5:11 AM, MC23[SMTP:mc23@**********.COM] wrote:
> Once upon a time, Wafflemeisters wrote;
>
> > Replacing the Wires with a custom grade is out of the =
question, cost
> >wise. If it isn't, I don't want to hear about it (I'm jealous)....
>
> <snip the rest>
>
> sigh. Replacing wires is out of the question period. It's one of those
> one shot type of implantations. Didn't anybody fully read Shadowtech?
> sigh again.
>

Contradicted by the entry in Cybertechnology in which someone mentions =
that he 'had his wires pulled and replaced' (*not* a direct quote) so he =
could have a relfex trigger put in.

I don't really have a problem with the concept of removing wired =
reflexes. Nanites can just as easily 'eat' the wires as lay them down. =
It'd probably not be easy for someone to go back to living without the =
wires, (nor would it be cheap to remove them, I'd say the surgery would =
cost as much as the original installation surgery, but if someone wants =
to go down that road, be my guest).

Basically, my view on it is that the cost is prohibitive, so that's why =
all the 'war-surplus' wired-up folks show up in the shadows.

--
Ian Silvercat claims the above in the name of himself!
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:41:16 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
In-Reply-To: <199805072132.PAA06354@******.carl.org> from "Jeremy
\"Bolthy\"
Zimmerman" at May 7, 98 02:10:03 pm
Content-Type: text

Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman wrote:
/
/ > >Yes. I couldn't get him to play until SR2 came out. I didn't tell him
/ > >I was still using SR1 Karma rules, though. :)
/ >
/ > With my new campaign I've gone back as well. Karma Pools cannot be saved
/ > IMNSHO.
/
/ How did the 1st edition pools work? I don't even remember now.

The dice pools were pretty much the same. The karma rules were
significantly different. There was no karma pool. If you wanted to
re-roll or buy a success you had to *burn* karma. If you didn't have
any karma you were out of luck, so to speak.

I've since returned to the old ways myself.

-David
--
"Truth, like a torch, the more it's shook it shines."
- Sir William Hamilton
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:45:41 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun without magic?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980507121643.084f683e@****.fbiz.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 15:16 07/05/98 -0400, you wrote:
>At 10:53 AM 5/7/98 EDT, TalonMail wrote:
>BTW, Steve, do you know the status on the new addition to the Mulvihill
>family?
>
>Hey, maybe we could do like what we did with Nigel and have Adam send a
>"list card," an e-mail expressing our congratulations from the entire list
>in one e-mail.

Undernet #Shadowrun was probably going to be sending flowers to the FASA
offices when we heard the news. Donations gleefully accepted for this -- I
just got my phone bill. EEK!

-Adam
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:52:07 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Luken <hawke@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Dice Pools
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> What I'm wondering, though, is if anyone has any other pools they
>regularly use, like social pools or athletic pools described in the
>Companion, and what they consist of.
>


Well, in the game I run, I allow them to use the social and athletic pools,
with dice equal to skill. Can't recall if this is what it says in the SC or
not...

IceHawke
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:56:10 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun without magic?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

----------
> From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Shadowrun without magic?
> Date: Thursday, May 07, 1998 2:45 PM
>
> At 15:16 07/05/98 -0400, you wrote:
> >At 10:53 AM 5/7/98 EDT, TalonMail wrote:
> >BTW, Steve, do you know the status on the new addition to the Mulvihill
> >family?
> >
> >Hey, maybe we could do like what we did with Nigel and have Adam send a
> >"list card," an e-mail expressing our congratulations from the entire
list
> >in one e-mail.
>
> Undernet #Shadowrun was probably going to be sending flowers to the FASA
> offices when we heard the news. Donations gleefully accepted for this --
I
> just got my phone bill. EEK!
>

I'd be willing to contribute to the cause if it could wait a week. I have
to stretch ten bucks between now and my next payday. Otherwise I'd be more
than happy to contribute to the flowers fund.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 22:59:50 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun without magic?
In-Reply-To: <199805071605.LAA24603@*****.interkan.net> from "Nexx" at
May 7,
98 10:59:35 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Nexx hastily scribble thusly...
|***************
| Rev. Mark Hall, Bardagh
| "Death by a sword lasts but a moment, but a bard's scorn lasts
|forever"
| aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars, PML FAQ Cop
| "Discretion is the better part of honor.... and innuendo the
|better part of humor."
|aka Ellegon, Working at making Cannon canon
| "Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, mortal, for you are crunchy
|and good with ketchup."
|--------[Geek Code Block]-----------
|GED/GSS d- s++:+ a-- C++ W w+ PS+.5 PE- Y+ t+
|5+ X+ R*+.5 !tv+ b+.5 DI+ D- G e h !r-- !y+
|-------[End Geek Code Block]-------
|

Hmmmm...
I think that's just a LITTLE bit over doing it with the .sig there...
I've had complaints about mine before now, and it's only 9 lines....
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 23:03:46 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Math
In-Reply-To: <199805071617.LAA25425@*****.interkan.net> from "Nexx" at
May 7,
98 11:11:15 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Nexx hastily scribble thusly...
|X = Shadowrun
|Y = Fantasy Elements (Magic, Dragons, Trolls, etc.)
|Z = Cyberpunk Elements (Cyberware, Gritty Future)
|A = Realism
|
|A+Y+Z=X
|A+Z=/=X

You've been messing with PROLOG!
STOP IT!
:)

It can seriously damage your will to live.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 10:08:18 +1200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: Cyberware Power Sources
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Quoth Wafflemeisters (0948 08-05-98 NZT):

<<<SLICE>>>

>> Standardly, neurons produce a charge of 700
>> milliwatts in a non-active state.
>> If this mechanism could be maginifed, it could also be a source
>> of plausable and natural eletrical current.
>>
>
> It can be. Electric eels genrate very high voltagees by having
many
>neurun-like cells "stacked" in series, adding thier volatages like
>batteries in series. Similarly, multiple "stacks" in paralel would add
>amperage. Given the abiltiy to grow similar cells (easy in SR),
>engenering an organized tissue to produce the proper voltages and
>currents would be doable, even with TODAYS tech (guided tissue
>structuring has produced primitive "liveres" with simplified filter
like
>structures ofintelaced blood vessels and liver tissue).
> Put such an engeneered organ in a cyberlimb, route blood (or
blood
>filtrates) to it, and WHOLA, organic "Fuel cell battery", plus another
>excuse (besides pain) for limb damage to affect the user-the limb
>BLEEDS.

This whole thread reminds me of an idea I had for cyberlimbs that I got
when I picked up an **&* supplement (you don't wanna know). I had a
hero (I was trying to write a novella) who lost most of his right arm,
and got a special magical/mechanical replacement: adamantium bones, with
magically-cloned muscles and reinforced tendons. Such a thing would be
possible under SR technology, right? (Equivalent of titanium
bone-lacing for the actual bones, 'muscle replacement' for the tissue
and such...)

Why would someone want this? Well, apart from the bone, it'd be their
own flesh, so there would be a reduced Essence cost. The limb itself
would have no particularly special properties (apart from being
unbreakable and setting off metal detectors). It'd be more for those
civilians who want to get a limb back without expensive/unnatural
cyberware, rather than for the combat monsters.

Should this be cyberware, bioware, or a bit of both? Suggested
essence/body and monetary costs?

Danyel Woods
9604801@********.ac.nz
'Are you deliberately trying to drive me insane?'
'The universe is already mad. Anything else would be
redundant.'
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 18:13:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Brian Moore <mooreb@****.FAC.COM>
Subject: Re: How much down time?
In-Reply-To: <v03110709b17704dd295d@[204.202.55.216]> from "Robert
Nesius" at
May 6, 98 11:32:59 pm
Content-Type: text

Robert Nesius <nesius@******.COM> said:
>
> Questions for the list:
>
> How much downtime do your characters usually have between runs?

We only started keeping track after the Companion came out, due to the
rules on training time. I argued that there should be enough time
between runs to be able to spend the karma earned on the run, just as
a rough average. The mages could spend karma fast, between spells,
initiation, foci, and familiars. Unfortunately, the street sams
had to spend karma the slow way (using the training rules). It is
generally around 2 weeks to 2 months between runs. It depends on
GM whim and how active the PCs are looking for work. Usually the
street sams blow their money on cyberware and can't afford their
lifestyle, so they look for work first.

> How many runs per game year do your groups fit in?

Probably 10-15.

> What is the average grade of initiacy that your magically actives attain?

My PC is grade 3, everyone else is 2 IIRC.

> How about average skill rating. ie: Lots of sixes and higher? Sixes and
> lower?

Mostly sixes and lower. Several people do have higher skills, but usually
only one or two per person.

> Just trying to get a feel for where people are at. Probably all over
> the map, but I'd appreciate your input on this.

You should also have asked about stats. All of our PCs are pretty buff,
with the weakest mage at 4 in all of his physical stats and max (or higher)
in the others. We have several PCs at or near straight 6's across the
board (excluding racial modifiers).

--
Brian Moore, mooreb@***.com | I wrote up a nice script to truncate all News&
First Albany Corp. Sysadmin | Mail sigs that are greater than 4 lines long.
standard disclaimers apply | It is still in beta testing due to an off-by-
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 23:14:41 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the Single
In-Reply-To: <011101bd79e3$ba11aea0$0101a8c0@********.wave.shaw.ca> from
"Lander Williams" at May 7, 98 12:12:41 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Lander Williams hastily scribble thusly...
|hmm... how DOES 5D4 work as a damage code?

It's pretty simple really, once you get the hang of it...
5D4 >>>> 5 Power (Number to resist)
D Base Deadly Damage.
4 Staging number. The number of successes required to stage down.

So. You need at least 16 successes to remain uninjured.
4 to get from Deadly to Serious.
4 to get from Serious to Moderate.
4 to get from Moderate to Light
And a final four to clear.

(Simple, innit... Errrr... The working out that is, not the resisting that
kind of damage.... But then, with a Ballistic armour of 6 that would reduce
the number of successes to a slightly more managable 10...)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 23:27:37 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
In-Reply-To:
<cÊ%a=GOVMT.CANADA%p=GC+EC%lìNCR_EXCH2-980507194906Z-100796@***.ncr.ec.gc.ca>
from "Ojaste,James
[NCR]" at May 7, 98 03:49:06 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did Ojaste,James [NCR] hastily scribble thusly...
|
|Gurth wrote:
|>> Armor reducing power was a good idea, though, rather than automatic
|>> resistance successes. (Heretic, I know. I'm not *THAT* old, just 26.).
|>
|>A combination of the two would work very well, I think -- keep the revised
|>Power Levels of SRII and the way armor works, but add in the Staging rules
|>of SR1.
|
|This sounds like a net.project - converting all the new goodies over
|to SR1 damage codes...

YES!

Please?
>*wimper*<

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 23:28:29 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
In-Reply-To: <199805072110.RAA13828@******.mindspring.com> from "MC23" at
May
7, 98 05:08:26 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did MC23 hastily scribble thusly...
|
| OK guys this topic is getting worn thin. It's over.
|
|MC23, ShadowRN GridSec Vigilante
|

LOL!
Whatever next. DLoH impersonators?
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 23:33:42 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
In-Reply-To: <199805072117.QAA09597@*****.interkan.net> from "Nexx" at
May 7,
98 04:11:13 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Nexx hastily scribble thusly...
|Can someone give me a run-down on 1st ed Karma rules? I need to find a
|BBlB, it seems...

Karma rules?
Simple.
At the end of a run you got awarded Karma.
With that Karma, you could buy skills, up attributes, learn spells or bond
foci. OR, you could save some of this karma in case of emergencies.

Spending 1 Karma point would avoid and oops, or allow a reroll of all failed
die.
Spending 2 karma would grant one auto-success. VERY usefull for making the
stabilisation roll after deadly damage.

Pools worked similarely, but the combat pool didn't exist. That replaced the
old Dodge and Defense pools (yes, pools could NOT enhance attack, only
defense, apart from astral and magic of course). Oh, and the Karma pool
didn't exist either.

There was one kind of karma. YOU decided what to spend it on or how to burn
it.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 08:38:35 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: OT: Silly Spendthrift AFLs ;) (Was Re: Shadowrun without magic?)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980507154541.0080d440@****.lis.ab.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> >Hey, maybe we could do like what we did with Nigel and have Adam send a
> >"list card," an e-mail expressing our congratulations from the entire
list
> >in one e-mail.
>
> Undernet #Shadowrun was probably going to be sending flowers to the FASA
> offices when we heard the news. Donations gleefully accepted for this -- I
> just got my phone bill. EEK!

I have four words for you - "It`s all your fault!"

<grin>

Lady Jestyr

- I'm in touch with my Inner Klingon... -
| Elle Holmes | jestyr@**********.com | http://jestyr.home.ml.org |
| Shadowrun Webring Ringmaster | GeoCities Leader | RPGA Reviewer |
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:59:16 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Where do you put the bateries?

On Wed, 6 May 1998 18:42:47 -0400 Joshua Bell <joshbell@**********.COM>
writes:
>Hello all Josh here,
>In my musings for today I was contemplating cyberware. I wondered how
all
>of these neat little devices got the power they need to run. Does wired
>reflexes have a battery pack? If so why isn't it listed so I as a GM
can
>rule that it shorted out at a most inoportune time <display
evil_grin>.?.
>
>I assume (rightly I hope) that certain cyberware requires a LOT of power
>such as Encephalons, C^2 decks, Cyberlimbs (gosh yes!), etc.
>
>What are your thoughs on how they are powered, Ahh an Ephipany! the
>"Nuclear Power Plant" implant Essence cost -1,000,000. <grin>...
>
>No really, would a datajack like act as an AC/DC cable?

Actually, another RPG, CyberSpace (from I.C.E.), addressed this and I
kinda like how they described it.

Cybersystems were generally powered microcells which used decaying
radioactive isotopes for power and lasted years without replacement.
(replacement can be considered part of cybermaintence [are there rules
for this?])
Also Cyberware could be powered by a solar batery linked to the system.
(not sure how to handle this ... [.1 essence? cost = 10+{100*number of
sys to be powered}?])

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
"Parts is parts ... unless those parts is going in *my* body"

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:59:24 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: [OT] Nuances of Language
In-Reply-To: <199805072110.RAA13828@******.mindspring.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 17:08 07/05/98 -0400, you wrote:
> OK guys this topic is getting worn thin. It's over.
>
>MC23, ShadowRN GridSec Vigilante

<grin>

MC23 is right. This has strayed way off course.

-Adam
But that doesn't make him GridSec ;)
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:47:13 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Possible Vehicle Economy Fix

Okay, R2's vehicle economy figures are a tad off so let's see if we can
fix `em.
<Observation of facts>
Let's start by looking at the Eurocar Westwind 2000 and say that it's
your average sports car aproximately equivalent to Mustang (not quite but
for sake of argument).
Eurocar westwind RBB econ: 20 km/L (12.4 mi/L = 46 mpg)
R2 econ: 6 km/L (3.72 mi/L = 14 mpg)

Best possible sports car R2 Econ: 10 km/L (6.2 mi/L = 23 mpg)

1991 Ford Mustang LX V8 Econ: 19 mpg (5 mi/L = 8 km/L)
1995 Ford Mustang GT V8 Econ: 18 mpg (4.8 mi/L = 7.7 km/L)
1995 Ford Mustang V6 Econ: 22 mpg (5.8 mi/L = 9.4 km/L)

Now let's say that the Ford Americar (I would have gone with the
Jackrabbit but it runs on Methane) is the equivelant of a Geo Prizm or
Honda Civic.
Ford Americar RBB econ: 50 km/L (31 mi/L = 117 mpg)
R2 econ: 12.4 km/L (7.7 mi/L = 29 mpg)

Best possible Sedan R2 Econ: 14 km/L (8.64 mi/L = 32.9 mpg)

1991 Geo Prizm Econ: 25 mpg (40.3 mi/L = 10.6 km/L)
1995 Geo Prizm Econ: 33 mpg (53.2 mi/L = 14.1 km/L)

1991 Honda Civic Econ: 27 mpg (43.5 mi/L = 11.5 km/L)
1995 Honda Civic Econ: 29 mpg (46.8 mi/L = 12.3 km/L)

For both examples the information on the modern cars was taken from
Consumer Reports (1991-92 and 1995)
For those who wish to check my math:
1 liter = 1.057 quarts = .264 gallons
1 km = .62 miles
</Observation of facts>

Okay I think the average vehicle's economy is going to improve not
worsen> I would say gas guzzlers are going to go the way of the dodo
(but not entirely). the Rigger Black Book (IMO) exagerated the
improvement and Rigger 2 (also, IMO) underestemated them. To fix this I
would suggest multipliing economy by 1.5 or, if you are really generous
(or optomistic), by 2.
In general, I don't really use vehicle economy, instead I calaculate the
range and only make a deal about fuel when chars push that limit.

BTW, IMO, all micro sized drones should be electric powered.

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
"Have you seen any invisble people run through here lately?"

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:21:41 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
In-Reply-To: <199805072107.RAA17027@******.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

|> From: MC23
|> Sent: May 7, 1998 5:06 PM
|> Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2

|> With my new campaign I've gone back as well. Karma Pools cannot be saved
|> IMNSHO.

Er, excuse, but I am lost. Could you please explain your statement? Also,
if someone would be so nice as to refresh my memory and explain the
differences in karma rules between SRI and SRII?

Katt Freyson
ICQ UIN 3337155
Montreal, Canada
http://www.dsuper.net/~katt
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:21:50 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Katt Freyson <katt@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Cyberware Power Sources
In-Reply-To: <35522BFD.6AAA@**********.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

|> From: Wafflemeisters
|> Sent: May 7, 1998 5:48 PM
|> Subject: Re: Cyberware Power Sources

|> <tounge in cheek>
|> I always assumed it drew power from its essence cost, turning essence
|> sustaining lifeforce into electricty directly.
|> </tounge in cheek>

Gosh I love it! Best excuse for essence loss I've read so far. I might
actually use it. It's not pure technology, it's magic-tech! <grin>

As for powering cyberwear with biological energy, well, why not? Standard
limbs [by that I mean that give a person his normal strength] would not use
more power than a normal person does, so why not from a human biological
system? As for powering more powerful devices, people with such cyberwear
could be given drugs to increase their metabolism, so that they would
generate power at a high enough rate.

Makes me think of Cybergeneration, where the kids with the virus have to
eat more often than normal to make up for the high energy requirements of
their bioware.

Katt Freyson
ICQ UIN 3337155
Montreal, Canada
http://www.dsuper.net/~katt
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 01:33:03 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980507115907.089f71ce@****.fbiz.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>As I recall from the back of SR2 BBB, 5D4 would be translated as 7D. A 3L1
>would become 2L.

In most cases, they added staging and power to get the new power, though
not always. 5D4 would become 9D and 3L1 would become 4L (a hold out).

- Cobra.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 01:32:59 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the SingleShadowrunner(t
In-Reply-To: <cÊ%a=GOVMT.CANADA%p=GC+EC%lìNCR_EXCH2-980507183833Z-10
0504@***.ncr.ec.gc.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>It basically allows for a more intelligent choice of weapons than
>"I'll grab a heavy pistol - which one doesn't matter, 'cause they're
>all 9M"...

All heavy pistols were 4M2...
This system was a bit stupid sometime... When you used explosive ammo, it
increased the staging by 1, thus making it more difficult to kill someone.
Also, a hold out pistol was 3L1 which was more deadlier than a heavy pistol
with a good skill.
Armors were boring because a troll with an armor jacket was even more
unbeatable than in SR2.
I speak about magic which was really too powerful... At that time, armor
was a +1 per success... Increase reflexes was the same as wired reflexes
(+2 +1d6 per level)...
I don't regret SR1. SR2 was a really good evolution and is more playable
and balanced and reallistic. IMO.

>More weapon variety, more weapon personality - it's a much cooler
>system and I hope that they switch back to it in SR3 (though unlikely,
>I'll admit).

I hope not. There wasn't more variety. Within a category, there only 2
different damage codes, which is the same in SR2.

- Cobra.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:24:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
In-Reply-To: <199805071815.OAA02414@****.ctghub.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 03:16 PM 5/7/98 -0500, you wrote:
>On 7 May 98 at 14:21, Erik Jameson wrote:
>
>> Hey, the "Respected Elders Relaxation Resort" is now open for
>> business, right here in sunny southern California. It's got a nice

>Even me?
>I promise to leave my jack-boots at the door. :)

Even you qualify Drekhead. And in addition to leaving the jack-boots at
the door, make sure you leave all carp weapons there also; I've just
purchased a bleeding-edge technology carp detector and I'm not afraid to
use it.

Gotta keep the resort safe from all those damn kids with their gangs and
drive-by carpings and whatnot...

Erik J.


Resepected Elders Relaxation Resort Activites Director

"Hey, how about a game of first edition using only the Blue Book?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:25:21 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Traveling Quiz
In-Reply-To: <199805071934.PAA14018@*******.mindspring.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 03:33 PM 5/7/98 -0400, you wrote:

><dripping sarcasm>
>Oh thank you
></dripping sarcasm>

Ouch. I thought I told the list to stop doing that; it's a serious bitch
to clean that stuff up off my monitor.

Like that damn ectoplasmic goo from Ghostbusters...if I'm not careful it
stains my dress clothes...I think I kept it off my nice suit this time, but
you do it again and I may be sending you a cleaning bill MC23.

> Now with that out of the way, how many of the traditional street
>level campaigns involve travel?

Most of my games fall between a street-level campaign (which those folks
really aren't going to leave Seattle, really) and something that appears to
most eyes as ultra-high powered like Keith's game.

Even at our most powerful stages we rarely left Seattle. A few times out
to Salish-Sidhe lands, to Scotland once (the Imago adventure I think), to
Amazonia once, CalFree a time or two, New England once, Chicago a few times
and Denver once or twice. This was all in a span of several real time
years. But at least 75% of our adventures were in Seattle. We could
usually find more than ample intrigue there.

Erik J.


Resepected Elders Relaxation Resort Activites Director

"Hey, how about a game of first edition using only the Blue Book?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:25:55 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners
In-Reply-To: <19980507175334.4019.rocketmail@******.yahoomail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:53 AM 5/7/98 -0700, you wrote:
>You're only 25 and you feel old?

Simple answer, yes.

Long answer, yes I do. <smirk>

When I want to, I can be a regular Calvin Coolidge. I just don't often
want to.

It stems from working as a lifeguard for six years (90 to 95). I saw that
I was once one of those care-free kids in high school. Then I suddenly
realized as I approached college graduation and the summer following
graduation that I had nothing in common with these kids. Their lives were
in a totally different place than mine. I was their boss, not a coworker.
Guests would call me "sir," the rebellious guards hated me (even though I
was one of them once and had the stories to prove I was more of a rebel
than they ever could be), there was maybe a half dozen female lifeguards
that I wouldn't get in trouble for "dating" (out of nearly 100 mostly
attractive young women) and I was telling stories about the good old days
way too often. I quite simply found myself in a different world from the
"youth;" I simply don't understand the mind of a teenager anymore.

I realized that while I am relatively young, to many people I'm old. Add
in the fact that I've got bad knees and can't climb stairs without pain,
like old people, and I often feel "old."

I was playing paintball a few weekends back and it took me several days to
recover from a very intense day of play (a lot of newbies there, so I had
to play hyper-aggressive ball to show them how the game should be played).
And I go to the gym and box so I'm not in horrible shape, yet it still took
me several days to recover. That's not something some young buck has to
do. That's something a mature adult has to do. I now understand what
athletes like Michael Jordan must go through every year now.

I guess it's just strange to see that once I was a 20-yr old newbie on this
list and now I'm an "Elder Statesman," telling stories about SR1 and what
the list was like in 93-95. That while I'm not old like my grandparents,
I'm not a kid anymore. It's a very strange sensation to recognize your own
mortality and the fact that your youth is really gone forever.

Ack.

To try and drag this kicking and screaming back on-topic, how old are your
PCs? Excepting any munchy IEs and the like that is.

It's been my experience that most runner are between 18 and 25. Anyone
notably older than that (Keith, I know you have one or two there)? My own
primary PC is I think 32 years old; nearly ancient by SR standards I think.

Anyway, sorry for rambling and taking this topic so far astray from SR. I
guess I'm just getting senile in my old age... ;-)

Erik J.


Resepected Elders Relaxation Resort Activites Director

"Hey, how about a game of first edition using only the Blue Book?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:26:44 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: ED Races in SR; why it can't happen (long)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980506202448.25716A-100000@******>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 08:43 PM 5/6/98 -0400, you wrote:

>One simple explanation is magic levels. Although magic levels are high,
>they are not high enough for T'skrang, Obsidimen or Windlings to appear.

This would appear to be obvious, but I'm not convinced it's true.

>In the Denizens of Barsaive book, it is mentioned that with magic levels
>dropping, T'skrang have a lower egg fertility rate.

AHA!! If their fertility rates drop with the level of magic, eventually
they could reach a point there they simply can't have children anymore.
Which would mean that would go extinct. No more t'skrang, because their
genetic code can't be passed down any farther.

Let's look at it this way. If a barghest is derived from a certain breed
of dog, then that breed of dog would go extinct and the only thing left
would be barghests. If barghests were to go extinct, there wouldn't be
anything left to return back to dogs when the magic dropped. It's a
hypothetical proposition anyway, and one that quite simply eliminates the
t'skrang from ever appearing in SR. They died with with Fourth Age.

>Each of these three
>races are not necessarily directly related to humans; for this reason, it
>is possible that their resurgence requires a higher magic level. For
>example, I don't believe that the Obsidimen will necessarily appear at the
>same time as dwarves and elves. Consider the length of mana cycles; it's
>quite possible that T'skrang will appear in two or three hundred years;
>with such a time scale, FASA can safely say that T'skrang will not appear
>in Shadowrun.

That's also true. But I honestly don't believe that they will appear.
They've gone the way of the dodo and the passenger pigeon. Lost but to the
annals of history.

Erik J.


"Oh my God, they killed Dunkelzahn! You bastards!!!"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:27:37 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: SR1 vs. SR2
In-Reply-To: <199805071857.OAA02772@****.ctghub.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 03:58 PM 5/7/98 -0500, you wrote:

>> When 2nd edition came out we were happy. Only the Karma Pool would later
>> become our bane (and we even award Karma sparingly when compared to
>> others).
>
>Yes. I couldn't get him to play until SR2 came out. I didn't tell him
>I was still using SR1 Karma rules, though. :)

I still use SR1 Karma Rules also.

For those that don't know, SR1 and SR2 Karma rules are very similar. SR2
brought in that Karma Pool abomination though. Didn't exist in the old days.

See, I've usually been involved with power games, tending to play our game
a little more epic, less street-level. We also usually managed to acquire
sizable karma after a year or two. If we had a Karma Pool also, we would
be throwing massive amounts of dice with every friggin' roll.

So while we recieved sizable karma awards (a few rare occassions that were
extremely difficult mentally and combat-wise, even for power PCs ( <---heh,
a funny!) we earned something like 20 Karma each; average was 8-12), we
also were spending Karma rather freely. In some cases, we would have
spent, say, 10 Karma on rerolls and bought successes and only earn 6 Karma
at the end of the session, leaving the PC with a -4 Karma deficit for the
day. Most of that Karma would have been spent just keeping our asses alive.

And with Karma awards like that our Karma Pools would have been a
nightmare. But we were at least smart enough to have never used the
concept in the first place.

I don't know, the Karma Pool thing reminds me in some ways of the "Group
Pattern" concept from Earthdawn. It's a way to try and make the PCs an
"adventuring group" instead of a disperate group of mercenaries. And I
don't like that "group" concept in SR very much; there's no way most of the
PCs would associate with each other if it wasn't a profitable business
proposition.

Erik J.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 17:36:53 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Traveling Quiz

On Thu, 7 May 1998 05:44:00 -0400 MC23 <mc23@**********.COM> writes:
>Once upon a time, Wafflemeisters wrote;

>> Not IMO. Our characters travel a LOT, and "home city" tends to
loose
>>meaning pretty fast. We've liked / used most of the sourcebooks, but a
>>"genric travle guide", would be better for us. NAGRL fills some gaps,
>>but leaves many. Just because all the FASA stuf says "Seattle",
doesn't
>>mean people play Seattle- similar features can be adapted for plots set
>>n any city. And having EVERYTHING happen in your town starts to
stretch
>>thin pretty fast.
>
>I think that you're an exception to the norm. I think the most obvious
>way to find out what happens most often is to poll everyone.
>
>Does your campaign involve travel, how often, and how far and where is
it
>centered?
>
> I am MC23

Hmmmm... game play hasn't actually started yet with our group but I'm one
of 2 maybe 3 GMs in the group. The third GM hasn't been confirmed, and
the second one *insists* on playing in Houston, TX (where we're all
from). I want to play in Seatle (I think Seatle is an interesting place
from a surrounding territory POV) so if we use the same PCs we'll prolly
say they travel between the 2 places b4 any runs and generally not make a
fuss about any of the arrangements except perhaps lodgings. I intend to
have the PCs travel as soon as they're ready... Denver seems to be a nice
place to go <eGMg>.

Additionly some of the PCs have done some travelling pregame. I have 4
chars and only one is native to Seatle. One is an otaku elf who left the
Haven and shortly met up with ... a minotaur rigger from Greece (go
figure ;) who was making his way around UCAS. Together they went on to
Seatle. My 4 char is an escaped science project from Aztlan and her
english is very bad (actually, so is the minotaur's). However, you
prolly weren't interested in pregame travelling.

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
"I wonder what this button does..."

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 17:47:54 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: SR Companion Metatypes

On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:22:24 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>Nexx said on 16:21/27 Apr 98...
>> This brings up something I've been contemplating, but never
quite >>worked out. I'm thinking about dropping the metatype priority,
but just >>giving humans an extra 3 points of attributes to distribute
how they wish >>(without actually raising their maximums). What does the
peanut gallery
>> think?

On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:22:24 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>I think that will work, although you would end up with _very_ strong
>characters if someone takes A priority for Attributes -- there's
>really no
>other choice than putting 3 at 6 and 3 at 5.
>
>--
>Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html -
<SNiP>

I also had an idea fer this (uh-oh. run! hide! ;)... I use the optional
split karma pool and what I do is this:
1) All metahumans get 1 karma point in each pool
2) humans get 2 karma points in each pool
3) humans get 1 "level" (for lack of a better word) of Exceptional
Ability Edge for free

You know what? out of 10 PCs only one is human ... I personally think
this optional rule gives humans an edge (no pun intended).

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
" `scuse me? sledgehammer 'fist to go'?" -- Kirby Hero

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 00:53:10 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the SingleShadowrunner(t
In-Reply-To: <Version.32.19980508011727.00f84d80@****.mhnet.fr> from
"Cobra"
at May 8, 98 01:32:59 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Cobra hastily scribble thusly...
|
|>It basically allows for a more intelligent choice of weapons than
|>"I'll grab a heavy pistol - which one doesn't matter, 'cause they're
|>all 9M"...
|
|All heavy pistols were 4M2...

Not all. SSC. Firepower ammo and the good ol' faithfull Predator and
Predator II. (The Predator didn't have a reactive trigger, or the ability to
use Firepower ammo, which added +2 to power, the Pred II could ONLY handle
Firepower.... It was my fave weapon before ShRII came out and spoilt it...)

|This system was a bit stupid sometime... When you used explosive ammo, it
|increased the staging by 1, thus making it more difficult to kill someone.

But more difficult to resist the damage that'd already been inflicted.
Variable staging always was a double edged sword.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 02:04:07 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Possible Vehicle Economy Fix
In-Reply-To: <19980507.170320.4254.0.dghost@****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> Okay, R2's vehicle economy figures are a tad off so let's see if we can
>fix `em.
><Observation of facts>
>[skip text]
></Observation of facts>
>
>Okay I think the average vehicle's economy is going to improve not
>worsen> I would say gas guzzlers are going to go the way of the dodo
>(but not entirely). the Rigger Black Book (IMO) exagerated the
>improvement and Rigger 2 (also, IMO) underestemated them. To fix this I
>would suggest multipliing economy by 1.5 or, if you are really generous
>(or optomistic), by 2.
>In general, I don't really use vehicle economy, instead I calaculate the
>range and only make a deal about fuel when chars push that limit.
>
>BTW, IMO, all micro sized drones should be electric powered.

Do you really use economics during game sessions ?

- Cobra.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 01:18:12 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: ED Races in SR; why it can't happen (long)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980507161604.21ef7b68@****.fbiz.com> from "Erik
Jameson" at May 7, 98 07:26:44 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Erik Jameson hastily scribble thusly...
|Let's look at it this way. If a barghest is derived from a certain breed
|of dog, then that breed of dog would go extinct and the only thing left
|would be barghests.

That's sloppy thinking I'm afraid.
Why wouldn't the dogs react to magic in the same way as the people?
Only a small percentage of the population gave birth to or goblinised into
metaraces, and the same could be said for the dogs.

Also, there is word that the magic dropped suddenly, NOT gradually.
If it was a gradual drop, it might have been the buffer zone needed for
their unborns to revert to the lower, non-magical race.

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing the 3 missing races appear,
It'd bring on a whole new night of rage if they suddenly appeared in force
at another magic threshold....

<EGMG>
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 10:19:50 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Gurth writes:
>It disappointed me when I looked at the damage rules in SRII... I _liked_
>the variable staging, it gave weapons slightly more ways in which to be
>different, and my experience is that it didn't make combat slower than in
>second edition. With either you have to divide the successes by something
>and then stage up or down accordingly, it's just that the number varies
.instead of being a fixed 2.

I wasn't too upset with the demise of variable staging for weapons, when I
noticed that armour didn't give automatic successes anymore. I think the
tradeoff was fairly decent, and I remember a quote from this list from when
SR2 came out: "We played our first game of SR2 last night, and I discovered
that Trolls aren't bulletproof anymore!"

What disappointed me was the demise of variable staging for _spells_, and
spell drain. Sure, it made the design more complex, but the munchkin trick
of casting high drain spells at low force, and throwing away the drain just
wasn't possible. If you slung major mojo around in SR1, you were going to
take drain... it wasn't uncommon for drain to need 3 or 4 successes per
level, so if you throw a big spell around, you'd be assured based on the
number of available dice that you'll take at least a light or even a
moderate drain. Now, you can toss Force 4 with Deadly drain spells around
all day, nearly. (Willpower 6, keep 3 dice back from the spell casting test
to resist drain).

This is one area of SR2 that needs serious overhaul in SR3, IMHO.

--
sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 20:34:22 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Craig S Dohmen <dohmen@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shasdowrun: Off course! (loong!)
In-Reply-To: <19980507201203.5941.qmail@*******.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Dowd's. While he's certainly done some cool stuff, (Companion) he's also
> made some choices ranging from simply a little bland (Corp War thing-
> who cares?) all the way to near-disastrous (Rigger 2- so complicated it
^^^^^^^^^
Well, shadowrunners should care. Since the corps will have all sorts of
covert ops going on against each other....

> bizarre & sinister mix of magic & machine. Quit screwing with magic,
> FASA. Don't fix what ain't broken. If you find magic too powerful, step
> up the competition, or tone down what mojo players get. I have played

I think everyone is jumping the gun on this magic thing. Based on what they
said at last year's Gen Con, SR3 and the new magic book aren't going to
totally overhaul the magic system. It's going to be more along the lines of
defining things more exactly and explanation of how things work, eg,
grounding through quickenings. ;)

> * Horrors, IE's & the Tirs, oh my!- I thought these were neat but only
> in real limited quantity. They are way overused now. Ditto all the super

So, Mike has been downplaying the IE/Horror angle. What are you complaining
about?

> say, 'Cyberpirates'? They can't do a Japan book, but they do give us
> 'Blood in the Boardroom'... great.

They can't do a Japan book because they want to have someone from Japan
write it, and since SR was only released there within the last year, they
haven't found anyone yet.

--Craig
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 20:26:53 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun: Off course! (loong!)
In-Reply-To: <19980507201203.5941.qmail@*******.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:12 PM 5/7/98 PDT, you wrote:
> I think FASA (Mulvihill specifically) is quite a bit off lately.
>Mulvihill seems to basically hate the game we all love & wants to make
>all these drastic changes to make it more "his" game as opposed to
>Dowd's.

Mike doesn't hate Shadowrun. If he did, he'd be working on Battletech or
doing something else. He has some definite ideas about the game though,
and is incorporating them slowly. Cut him some slack.

> * Magic- without it, the game is Cyberpunk with different rules, NOT
>Shadowrun. The world would be nothing the same.

Damn it, I wish this concept would just die. FASA IS NOT DROPPING MAGIC
FROM SHADOWRUN!!! There, did I yell loud enough for you to hear?

>Quit screwing with magic,
>FASA. Don't fix what ain't broken. If you find magic too powerful, step
>up the competition, or tone down what mojo players get.

Magic in SR works great, better than any other system, I believe. But it
sure as hell isn't perfect and Steve Kenson and FASA are working very hard
to fix those elements that *are* broken; and there are things that are
broken and need to be fixed. That's probably part of the purpose for SR3.

>I have played
>since the day 1st ed. came out & have yet to have ONE person earn
>initiation...

Define earning Initiation. I've played since SR1 also and the majority of
PCs have to bust their ass to get the Karma to Initiate. So I don't know
what you are getting at here.

>See also the new rules for metamagic in the Companion.

What? What new metamagic rules in the Companion. Did I miss something
here? I've read that book numerous times and I don't recall any new
metamagic.

> * Cyber- bioware shouldn't let players off easy since it should be hell
>to get, not to mention it usually has side effects. Physads pay dearly
>for their power & don't get as powerful as a sam. The point is, sure
>you're supposed to pay for your edge but if you handle it right, so does
>everybody.

Unless I'm mistaken, there is a price to pay for cyberware and not only in
nuyen. The lower the Essence, the harder it is to use magic to heal them
up. That means hospital bills (hell, that means finding a hospital that
will take the SINless and certified credsticks) and time off that can't be
used for running. And if you want to run with cyberpsychosis-type stuff,
go for it, that's the province of ROLE-PLAYING!

> * Horrors, IE's & the Tirs, oh my!- I thought these were neat but only
>in real limited quantity. They are way overused now.

Agreed. And they are being scaled back; or can't you tell?

>Ditto all the super
>high level epic scale stuff. We're lousy plex rats... we have no part in
>this stuff.

Not every runner is a "lousy plex rat." And you seem to forget basic Chaos
theory, the Lorenz Butterfly Effect; even the affects of one tiny shadowrun
on one little corporate installation can end up having huge affects. So
even a lousy plex rat can actually shake the foundations of heaven, without
even realizing it.

And not everyone wants to run gutter punks. That style of game isn't for
everyone. It's the way CP2020 runs, but SR is open to far more variation I
think. I *like* my very upscale ex-corporate combat mage that drives
around in a Saab Dynamit and wears 10,000 nuyen worth of clothes. It's fun
for me to have that PC interact with gutter rats. I like that variety.

> * Non-shadowrunner campaigns- Theses are already way out of hand. Cool
>as a diversion, but ultimately a distraction from the point. We really
>don't need these 'other types of games' that keep pushing... can anyone
>say, 'Cyberpirates'? They can't do a Japan book, but they do give us
>'Blood in the Boardroom'... great.

Those other styles of campaigns were added for flavor, so that those people
who *wanted* to run a game like that could, and have a basic framework from
which to work in. Cyberpirates is much more valuable than just "Here's how
to run a pirates campaign."

And I think you are totally missing the point on Blood in the Boardroom.
It's changing the entire corporate landscape. I don't know about your
games, but in mine 90% of the employers of shadowrunners are corporate.
And that supplement creates a huge amount of potential adventure hooks.

> There's my dollar ninety-fine worth... if I seem a little harsh, it's
>just because I love ya Mulvihill, & I'd hate to see Shadowrun go the way
>of 'Vampire"...

Shadowrun will not turn into Vampire.

I really don't understand why you are being so harsh; much of it seems to
be on mistaken perceptions of the future of the game (i.e., magic is NOT
going away, despite the nasty rumor) or your own perceptions of the game
being a game of gutter punks and gangers.

If you want to run a gutter campaign, that's fine. But I don't want to,
and Shadowrun is big enough for both of those games.

I think you are missing so many points here, your perception of SR is way
wacked out from anything like consensual reality. But that's your right I
suppose.

Erik J.


"Ladies & Gentleman, the newest member of the band, the one and only Spice
Boy, GRUMPY SPICE!!!" <and the crowd goes wild!!!>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:26:16 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Radiation and Magic

On Mon, 4 May 1998 09:27:33 -0500 Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
writes:
>>
<SNIP>
>> for the unhealthy mana to feed straight into the mage's brain. This
would >> mean that there is an astral plane outside the earth and all
that would be >> needed to create a safe enviroment for mages in space
would be to recreate >> the magical properties of the ozone ... (which
shouldn't be easy by any >> means) and would also explain spirits with
"an affinity to solar fire". >> It's a stretch, but if you don't stretch
you'll never go anywhere :)

>Check out the Big D's will. I don't have the page number handy, but in
>there he left a chunk of cash to a scientist researching "The relation
>ship between nuclear power and mana" or some such. Perhaps its not
>a big as stretch as you think. :)
>
>--
>Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
<SNIP Sig>

Actually I knew about the hinted at possible connection between magic in
radiation. The stretch I was reffering to was the explanation for mages
going ga-ga. :)

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)

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Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 18:43:06 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: How much down time?

On Wed, 6 May 1998 23:32:59 -0700 Robert Nesius <nesius@******.COM>
writes:
>Questions for the list:
>How much downtime do your characters usually have between runs?

Since gameplay hasn't really started yet, it's hard to say but I'd guess
it will range from a few days to a few weeks. Enough time to let the PCs
relax and at the same time keep em busy enough that their shadow income
doesn't drop too low.

>How many runs per game year do your groups fit in?

As above, dunno but I'd guess 1 per week during the summer so, that may
result in about a total of 12 games ... during the school year we'll
prolly be too busy to do any decent amount of shadowrunning ...

>What is the average grade of initiacy that your magically actives
>attain?

none, atm. I have 2 magically active characters, a Druid and a PhysAd.
I'm not sure how I'll handle the Druid's intiation but the PhysAd is
going to do it on a more subconcious level. To represent this, I'm going
to split karma fairly evenly among Stats, Skills, and Intiation. As soon
as she has enough karma for a self-initiation (no ordeals) she'll do it.

>How about average skill rating. ie: Lots of sixes and higher? Sixes
>and
>lower?

Everybody in the group tends to have one or two skills at 6 and the rest
range evenly from 2 to 5. I would say the average skill is 3 or 4,
closer to 3. The exception is my Otaku who has Computer at 8. In the
group the spellslingers all have sorcery at 6 and most have Conjury at 6
as well. Those who have Psychometry tend to have it at 3 or 4.

>Just trying to get a feel for where people are at. Probably all over
>the map, but I'd appreciate your input on this.
>
>Thanks,
>-Rob


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Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:39:00 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Karma and the Pedestrian (was Re: SR Agriculture)

On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 08:05:28 -0400 Jerry Hill
<agh60070@*******.CC.UCF.EDU> writes:
>How does anyone else deal with Karma for people who just happen to be
>around. I don't mean the karma pool on an individual basis (that's
handled
>with threat/professional ratings) but specifically good karma with
regard to
>bonding costs, the ability to quicken and/or anchor spells, etc.
>
>I've seen some interesting ideas in the Aggriculture thread, up to and
>including ending world hunger via magic. The problem I see here is that
>Karma is a fairly difficult thing to quantify... How many spells can
someone
>quicken before they run out of karma, etc.
>
>I think the answer to this, once I figure out how I want to deal with
it,
>will have quite a bit of impact on the viability of wide scale
commercial
>magic use in my worldview. Perhaps the average Joe should be assigned a
>certain amount of karma per year or something to do with as he
chooses...
>
>Bah. I need to think about this one for a while. Any comments?
>
>
>Jerry Hill

hmmm...I have delt with this any yet, but... when determining karma
awards for "pedestrains" keep in mind the following:
1) The risk/ stress of the person's day-to-day,
2) The amount accomplished,
3) and possibly the impact of his/her actions.

As a basis OTOMH a chart would go something like this:
Security Guard would get 1 karma per week
Security Mage would get 1 karma per 3-4 days
Corp Suit would get 1 karma per week (high stress/large impact)
Wageslave would get 1 karma per 2-3 months
Mageslave would get 1 karma per month
Reseach Magician would get from 1 karma per month to 1 karma per 2-3
days depending on research.
Study (ie at a university, but not neccissarily) would increase rate by
x2 to x4 depending on workload
Coach potato would get 0 to 1 points of karma a year

This sound any good?

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Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:21:24 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkinism at it's finest

On Thu, 7 May 1998 17:34:23 -0400 Jonathan Hurley
<jhurley1@************.EDU> writes:
>On Thursday, May 07, 1998 5:11 AM, MC23[SMTP:mc23@**********.COM]
>wrote:
>> Once upon a time, Wafflemeisters wrote;
>> > Replacing the Wires with a custom grade is out of the
question,
>> >cost wise. If it isn't, I don't want to hear about it (I'm
jealous)....
>> <snip the rest>

>> sigh. Replacing wires is out of the question period. It's one of those
>> one shot type of implantations. Didn't anybody fully read Shadowtech?
>> sigh again.

BTW, the page reference for the above is page 39 Last paragraph before
System Damage

>Contradicted by the entry in Cybertechnology in which someone mentions
>that he 'had his wires pulled and replaced' (*not* a direct quote) so he

>could have a relfex trigger put in.
>
>I don't really have a problem with the concept of removing wired
reflexes. >Nanites can just as easily 'eat' the wires as lay them down.
>
>It'd probably not be easy for someone to go back to living without the
wires, >(nor would it be cheap to remove them, I'd say the surgery would
cost as much >as the original installation surgery, but if someone wants
>to go down that road, be my guest).
>
>Basically, my view on it is that the cost is prohibitive, so that's why
>all the 'war-surplus' wired-up folks show up in the shadows.
>
>--
>Ian Silvercat claims the above in the name of himself!

I agree. (Btw the direct quote is "I actually had my wire taken out and
put back in with a reflex trigger." -- Steel Lynx pg 38) I was
considering charging as per Gene Therapy: 100kN then modify according to
the grade to be removed (ie 300k for alpha, 700k for Beta, and 1M for
delta [Gamma, Epsilon and S.Epsilon I'll remove for free <grin>]) then
the Sam will have to spend 4 months hospilized (in the appriate grade
clinic) before implantation of the new sys can begin ... ought to make
runners reeeaaal wary about upgrading.

PS if you're feeling nasty, make that the cost per point of essence :P
(ie removing wired 2 [normal grade] would cost 300kN and hospitalize the
char for 12 months).

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
"I feel Monkey Funky"

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Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:26:10 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Variable Staging (Was "Old Age Runners")
In-Reply-To: <24158.199805072227@*****.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 23:27 07/05/98 +0100, you wrote:

>|This sounds like a net.project - converting all the new goodies over
>|to SR1 damage codes...
>
>YES!
>
>Please?
>>*wimper*<

Might want to wait for SR3 to come out before you do this. I know I'm
waiting for SR3 before trying any of the GURPS conversions I've been
meaning to try.

Course, I won't have TIME to do those conversions until then. <insert busy
busy busy grin>

-Adam
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 21:40:09 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun without magic?
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 5/7/98 2:34:40 PM US Eastern Standard Time, erikj@****.COM
writes:

> Hey, maybe we could do like what we did with Nigel and have Adam send a
> "list card," an e-mail expressing our congratulations from the entire list
> in one e-mail.
>
> Put my name on the "e-card" anyway.
>
I'll include myself here as well if you don't mind. I may not agree with the
guy, but he and Sharon do deserve the best of wishes...

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 21:55:05 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: OT: Silly Spendthrift AFLs ;) (Was Re: Shadowrun without
magic?)
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 5/7/98 5:39:59 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU writes:

> Donations gleefully accepted for this -- I
> > just got my phone bill. EEK!
>
> I have four words for you - "It`s all your fault!"
>
Actually, I just got mine as well for a particular call to Norway...Yep, it's
a nasty thing when the phone bill (just one call) exceeds the credit card
payment for the month...

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 21:13:56 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun without magic?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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> > Hey, maybe we could do like what we did with Nigel and have Adam send
a
> > "list card," an e-mail expressing our congratulations from the entire
list
> > in one e-mail.
> >
> > Put my name on the "e-card" anyway.
> >
> I'll include myself here as well if you don't mind. I may not agree
with the
> guy, but he and Sharon do deserve the best of wishes...

Put my name on it, too.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:05:37 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Non-running sources of income (was Re: Talismongering)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Jeremy "Bolthy" Zimmerman escreveu:
>
> ----------
> >
>
> How many people have their characters do work on the side?


There's a character in my group who is a female elf reporter. No
magic and no cyber but the datajack, running along 3 samurai and 2
mages... :)
Her contacts and social skills do provide great hooks, tough...

Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:09:38 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Tskrang Conspiracy (A little long)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Jeremy Fisher escreveu:
> Chupucabras seem to be
>

I believe the correct name is ChupAcabras... Please give some more
info on these
creatures... Apparently, some of them have attacked cattle in some
regions of Brasil
and Argentina last year :) . No, I'm not kidding, sheep and other
animals appeared
dead with strange wounds, and people started saying it was a Chupacabra.
Don't know
how this ended, tough.

Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 22:04:09 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Sex & the Single Shadowrunner(thanks)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Erik Jameson escreveu:
>
> At 11:02 AM 5/5/98 -0600, you wrote:

> Gah. That's a small fetish now; given the medical advances by 205x, it
> would have to be a thriving fetish niche industry. Egads. And think of
> the plot devices that could be used with this...what better way to hide
> yourself from everyone than to change not only your appearance but your
> sex? Kinda like that one guy/girl in Escape from LA actually.

"Here sirs, we come to ancient ground of accursed springs,
Jusenkyo..."
I've thinking of this since a while back, I mean the "water curses"
from
Ranma 1/2 as Edges or Flaws. With a bit of tweaking (okay, maybe a LOT
of tweaking :) )
They could prove interesting. Any ideas?

Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 14:27:21 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Corporate power
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Cobra escreveu:
>
>In SR, megacorps aren't as powerful as in Cyberpunk.

I'll have to disagree with you on this one. The AAA Megacorps of
SR are way more powerful than those corps in CP (which aren't even
called
"megacorps"...) They'd be equal to second or third tier SR corps (AA or
A),
since they're big and multinational, but specialize in only one aspect
of the market. The Big 8 are most know for one of their activities, but
do everything and are everywhere.

Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:13:06 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Cyberware 2060/Jettware!
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Jessica Grota escreveu:
>
>
> Heh...ironic. Jett was a morphine addict for a while after she got her
> scars. She was horribly traumatized both physically and mentally. She
> proved just how strong she could be, though, and kicked that nasty
> habit. Although she nearly relapsed once under heavy stress, which made
> for great RP...
>
> --Jett


This one (named Kim) had the "habit" as a -6 points flaw ( I was
thinking
long term when I built her for the player...). Her player quit the group
before starting, and I reused the stats with some changing to another
guy who wanted in,
giving the numbers another name/background... :)

Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:22:28 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Cyber and Body Index (was Re: Munchkinism at it's finest)
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Jonathan Andrews escreveu:

> but if essence reduction on cyber comes from organic componentts, then how
> come they reduce impact on magic attribute? bioware is still organic, but
> it affect magicians adversely...


I believe "high-grade" cyberware doesn't have organic components,
it's just
built more carefully and is adjusted to the individual user. Normal
cyber doesn't
have this, it's quite generic (like, pre-defined sizes, etc.). Alpha
would have
some adjustable settings, Beta would be custom-fit. Delta, well, every
idividual
chip and bolt of those is propably made specially for the individual.
Wich each
increasing grade, the cyber is more and more adjusted to the user,
making it less
invasive. It doesn't mean organic components or magic.

Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 04:42:58 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners
In-Reply-To: <015201bd7a17$04711c00$5a5211ac@********.mincom.oz.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>What disappointed me was the demise of variable staging for _spells_, and
>spell drain. Sure, it made the design more complex, but the munchkin trick
>of casting high drain spells at low force, and throwing away the drain just
>wasn't possible. If you slung major mojo around in SR1, you were going to
>take drain... it wasn't uncommon for drain to need 3 or 4 successes per
>level, so if you throw a big spell around, you'd be assured based on the
>number of available dice that you'll take at least a light or even a
>moderate drain. Now, you can toss Force 4 with Deadly drain spells around
>all day, nearly. (Willpower 6, keep 3 dice back from the spell casting test
>to resist drain).

I think they wanted the same system for everything... Not a bad idea.
It also was possible to do some rule bending in SR1. If I remember well,
stun spell had very low drains which made them quite easy to launch. The
big spells are always very difficult to launch...
And finally, they lost staging they added modifiers to the power so you
didn't lose any variation between spells.
Staging for spell effects made them quite impossible to resist... With a
staging of 1 (and most of the spell used by PCs had such a staging), it was
a ultimate weapon !
Generaly, SR1 was very unbalanced and somewhat usually unrealistic...

>This is one area of SR2 that needs serious overhaul in SR3, IMHO.

I never had any problem with it. When I look at my players, I can see them
suffer from drain. And a light wound is always a big problem in SR (perhaps
too much).
You can calculate drains with force instead of force/2.

- Cobra.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 04:43:05 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners (Was: Re: Sex & the SingleShadowrunner(t
In-Reply-To: <25856.199805072353@*****.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>|>It basically allows for a more intelligent choice of weapons than
>|>"I'll grab a heavy pistol - which one doesn't matter, 'cause they're
>|>all 9M"...
>|
>|All heavy pistols were 4M2...
>
>Not all. SSC. Firepower ammo and the good ol' faithfull Predator and
>Predator II. (The Predator didn't have a reactive trigger, or the ability to
>use Firepower ammo, which added +2 to power, the Pred II could ONLY handle
>Firepower.... It was my fave weapon before ShRII came out and spoilt it...)

I've forgotten this one. Anyway this came from ammo and not from the pistol
itself... :)

>|This system was a bit stupid sometime... When you used explosive ammo, it
>|increased the staging by 1, thus making it more difficult to kill someone.
>
>But more difficult to resist the damage that'd already been inflicted.
>Variable staging always was a double edged sword.

Not very realistic. This is typically a RPG effect without relation to
reality.

- Cobra.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 22:43:07 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: K's Dark History (A Real Warning to the Munchkin Kind)
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Recently, inspired by my own retorts and the like, I have come to a notion of
sorts. For years here in Lafalot, I was just about the only major SR GM
around. Others were there sure, but none had the group resources or time
availability that we did.

We played, By all the Gods, Good or Evil, did we play.

Started as Shaper/Vampire mixtures, simply because they made a good lure for
players with inner feelings all their own to be "really different".

Years passed, then we started adding the "Immortals", which wasn't that big a
deal because Vampires were immortal too, they just weren't that old (yet
anyway :)

Then one day, someone took my Primary Personal GM Rule #1 and ignored it
completely...

"I do not care what kind of character you play, no matter the power or type.
I just ask one favor. Remember that I will adjust the power of the game to
better balance everything out so as to give all involved a challenging and
enjoyable time. So please remember the rest of the group as well as
yourself."

One guy came along and decided he was far more important than the entire group
combined. I should have outright killed his character while I had the chance.
I one day overheard him talking with some newer players to the particular
campaign say..."Keith won't kill us, he'll just bring us back somehow".

The straw didn't break. I lit it on Fire. I took science to the final limit
in SR, by taking the rumor of "biogenetic development" to the final limit. I
invented someone that even if he killed, he would come back. I brought about
Clone Wars. For almost 3 months the group homed in on anything even remotely
related to this "Ulta-Villain". It cost several characters and what seemed
for so long like no limit to the friendships in RL. In the end, only a few
remained as part of "my game group". Mike was just starting his 'career' as a
SR Player when this was happening. I kept reminding every player for all that
time of my phrase and they each kept looking at me as the fault. Perhaps I
was, perhaps I wasn't. That's in the past now. Those players decided that a
personal vendetta had been created, even when I made attempts to cut the power
back. In the end, it (the entire campaign structure) simply collapsed and I
walked away from a game storyline I had created 9 years earlier in an entirely
different game system.

Now, after 7 years or more of SR gaming, I still live in that "Historic
Shadow". Occasionally some of "the Old Group" show up or we run into each
other. A few of them and I actually sit down, have some drinks and talk about
stuff. Most of the time, I try and keep the conversation off of gaming to
some extent. But because of who/how I GMed before, they had to know what I
was doing.

Power, a Drug Best Left having never been tested....

Now Mike is GM, and I will only finish the PBEM and occasionally give him an
oft' needed vacation so he can play out an idea or too really quick. Most of
those players still play the same way they always did, and I remain very
distant whenever possible.

Yes, we (the current group) is trying to play out characters to the "never-
ending end". Binder has been around for ages now, and it's fun watching him
continue to change and grow and remain the same all at once. Two of the
players here about two months ago came to a public statement of "we've never
had a single character this long or this powerful, we aren't sure what to do
now..." Our response was more or less ... "just keep playing, make longer
plans, create a character with a "Soul" for lack of better terms."

They have.

They really like it.

Characters with family ties, contacts, connections, more interest in B/R
skills than any other category (we are all currently in a "Toy" competition).
PCs who have found ways to continue growing.

"Threats" (the Sourcebook) has become a guide of sorts, just not direclty.
Three of us are directly a part of one aspect of that book (Erik probably can
guess which one). The tale I mentioned where a PC unleashed his fury on an IE
was about the extents and sacrifices that we have made in order to keep the
character alive. To go the final steps and then keep walking. Mythos (a
friend of Rob Nesius by name of Steve once had a girlfriend who knew Duane
Brickler who nearly joined a PBEM some 6 years ago now) is someone who has
gone through a ringer I wouldn't have put Binder through in all honesty. And
when you sit back and let Duane play the character and just leave him alone.
It is AWESOME!!!!

No, he wouldn't be able to beat an IE toe-to-toe, but he knows he make things
as hard as possible. We also know he as a PC has something that no NPC is
ever going to really have, lest the author of the NPC takes over. A "Soul".
He shares part of my belief that I have given to Binder. The Power isn't the
ultimate goal. Living Is. As long as you can remain a live, you can continue
trying to be whatever you can be. The only thing greater is letting someone
else have your gift. Meaning when you care so much about something that
"Character Sacrifice" can be done with real, deeply rooted, Role Playing
Intentions.

What am I saying now? I know, it's more of an aimless Rant. I guess I am
trying to say to anyone who "knows they aren't a munchkin even if they are in
truth" is pay more attention to what you point the finger at. Maybe we aren't
all "Munchkins", but I think most of us are deeply. I think most of us want
to feel invulnerable, feel powerful.

Especially if we've had a particularly bad day at work.

Especially if we've lost a good friend recently.

Especially if we've discovered that no one is going to let us forget our own
mistakes, least of all ourselves.

Anyone really care what level another character is? If so, you can find the
"Hoosier Hacker House" and find a very tamed down version of Binder. But I
ask a favor if you decide to do so. A chain of favors as it were.

Remember that when looking at this, it is not not merely a collection of
numbers and HTM code.

Remember that it is something someone poored an awful lot of time into.

Remember that it is something that, though maybe not right for youself, it was
right for someone else.

Remember that it is something that belongs to someone that cared more about
what other people wanted to ultimately do that he wanted to do himself.

Imagine the fun and literally -THOUSANDS- of hours of enjoyment that this
character may have created. Not only for the person to whom played it. But
for everyone that played with that person as well.

Imagine the level of the term "Epic" that must have surrounded this character.

Imagine that this "Nightmare" is not your own, it was something someone else
went through and is now offering up to the world to see. As a sort of memento
of what has happened before and what could happen again if people aren't going
to learn to understand "Sacrifice" one damn bit.

No, Binder is not a character for every campaign world. But he is something
that works in ANY campaign world. But that isn't the character I guess. I
guess that is the lessons learned by the player of that character. Who has
had his own games cross the lines of near-extinction more times than he cares
to remember (and he remembers them all sadly). Were Binder to be in your
games, as NPC or PC (an event that if I win the Lottery ever, I would love to
do) I only ask that you think about the type of person he represents.

Not his power level, as numbers are so hard for most of us to see past at any
given moment.

Not the fact that you know you aren't reading everything, simply because so
much of the sheet has (10+) or (20+) written on it the strangest of places.

Just remember that the guy who made him isn't a destroyer of a game. He's the
one who made an 14 (I finally added them all up right) year promise come to
fulfillment.

The promise?

I made a promise once to one of the guys that taught me how to play AD&D all
those years ago that I would never forget their story, regardless of whatever
happened to us as people.

I didn't. And it took me enough perserverance to rival Christ I like to think
to see that story to the end.

That character is part of that story.

No, not every character with these power levels will be like this. In fact, I
can probably guarantee that most of them won't be. I wish everyone out there
would simply enjoy the game all the time. Most of us do, otherwise we
wouldn't want to spend hours a week (some of us a day, hey Nexx??? :) to
getting to know what other gamers like to do. What makes them and their game
worlds tick as it were.

What would happen were I allowed to play "Binder" with a number of the "Old
Group". I don't know. He'd probably get them all into a big bar, like the
Rhino in Seattle or something, make sure he bought them one good round of
drinks with a toast "to Old Friends and Older Memories".

He'd then toss in more karmic force and desire into the casting of a single
spell, one that could only be cast by a magician once ever in his life.
Because it would utlize his Life as the power behind.

He'd probably kill them all, especially the ones that thought they knew him
and wondered what happened when their "friend" decided they weren't
"friends"
anymore.

Of course, he'd die to. Only the Hat would be left behind, knowing that
stupid legend that surrounds it now....

-K

PS...sorry for the rant. I do honestly know the difference between a "Power
Gamer" a "Munchkin" and "Role Playing". I just added
"Patience" and
"Longevity" to the list as well....
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 22:51:45 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Old Age Runners
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In a message dated 5/7/98 6:53:09 PM US Eastern Standard Time, erikj@****.COM
writes:

> To try and drag this kicking and screaming back on-topic, how old are your
> PCs? Excepting any munchy IEs and the like that is.

Hey now, watch that munching...someone's gonna get hurt... :P

> It's been my experience that most runner are between 18 and 25. Anyone
> notably older than that (Keith, I know you have one or two there)? My own
> primary PC is I think 32 years old; nearly ancient by SR standards I think.

Binder is ... old ... he doesn't really know his true age anymore. But he's
not immortal, he just lived with a twisted curse for a while. For those who
understand this term, he's something of a "Slider", and isn't even sure where
"Home" really is anymore either. Erik, why do you think he studied Metamagic
so heavily when we did that "bit convo" in the bar? He is looking still ...

Prophet (for those of TK that remember him ;) is a kid, who looks older than
he is (actually 16, but thanks to genetics, he's mid 20's physically).

Shivowtnoeh. Good ol' Shivy. My first SR character. The Siberian Shaper
Tiger Hermetic Magician. Yes, for those lucky TK people, the -BIG CAT- was
me, he just never spoke up. In the original game timeline, he died of "old
age" at about 48 or so. He was started at age 39. He was the one true "Force
of Nature" I ever allowed myself to go animate with in a game. Sometimes I
wish I could -really- play him again. (oh the the one true longing for First
Edition that I have)

> Anyway, sorry for rambling and taking this topic so far astray from SR. I
> guess I'm just getting senile in my old age... ;-)

This little ol' post, a rambling??? Nah, that other one I put out...that's a
rambling.. :)

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 22:54:40 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Possible Vehicle Economy Fix
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In a message dated 5/7/98 6:59:13 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
wgallas@*****.FR writes:

> >BTW, IMO, all micro sized drones should be electric powered.
>
> Do you really use economics during game sessions ?
>
OH YEAH!!! But then again remember, our game is -truly- International. Fuel
for that DAMN helicopter alone kills off 1 in 3 runs worth of money....why on
earth do you think we build Magic/Tech mergers here so much? Spells that
augment lift and/or "efficiency of operation". Specific variations on ruling
for Movement for Nature Spirits and many elementals.

Oh yeah, Economics is the BASIS of SR, Corporate OR Runner...

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 23:01:51 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: ENOUGH!!! (Re: Shadowrun: Off course! (loong!))
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In a message dated 5/7/98 7:42:19 PM US Eastern Standard Time, erikj@****.COM
writes:

> Damn it, I wish this concept would just die. FASA IS NOT DROPPING MAGIC
> FROM SHADOWRUN!!! There, did I yell loud enough for you to hear?
>
> >Quit screwing with magic,
> >FASA. Don't fix what ain't broken. If you find magic too powerful, step
> >up the competition, or tone down what mojo players get.
>
> Magic in SR works great, better than any other system, I believe. But it
> sure as hell isn't perfect and Steve Kenson and FASA are working very hard
> to fix those elements that *are* broken; and there are things that are
> broken and need to be fixed. That's probably part of the purpose for SR3.
>
OKAY!!! Folks, I am really sorry for ever starting this topic (check the
logs, this is MINE). I have always known that FASA wasn't going to drop
magic, and have talked with others at FASA to prove that fact (and if the HD
hadn't crashed, those recordings I had would still be in tact).

Steve K. is working his mind, body, soul, and imaginative spirit ragged on the
new magic (among other things) for FASA's SR3. Why do think I am going to
GenCon this year? Come on, this one is important to see and hear and meet.

Magic does need help, and I think it's the BEST magic system of any of the
RPG's in general. But that help even needs help.

My only complaint that I have had is that I just wish (longing here) that
Steve wasn't working on this "apparently alone". I know that his worked is
perused by others, but he's the one we on the list at least, hear the most
about (exposure problems???).

But the ideas that the new magic is being based upon are obviously somewhat
set at this point (a year or six months ago, maybe/maybe not). The fine
tunings are just not fixed up yet.

Damn, it's late and I still don't have the chapter for the PBEM...gotta keep
plowing here...

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 23:54:30 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Philippe Garneau <aaa302@*****.ULAVAL.CA>
Subject: Shooting Blanks in the 2050's
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Hello all,

Just to mention an bit of info that have been percolating in my weird mind
for a couple of days.

Researchers in fertility research (in the 1990s) are concerned on the
rapid diminution of sperm counts in Occidental men. According to the
scientific litterature, it's likely that this diminution can be caused by
exposition to diverse airborne/water pollutants. As high sperm counts are
primordial to the male fertility, a general decrease of that would result in
widespread fertility problems.

As the levels of pollution in Shadowrun's 2050s cities have augmented
(the Seattle sourcebook mentions Stage 4 smog alerts for many days a year,
especially in the Barrens, not to mention the vivid description of
Technoctitlan), it's probable that fertility issues have risen to an
alarming level. This could affect PC's lifes directly (if they try to
conceive children), or indirectly, as player's contacts mentions having
problems getting their families started. This would of course generate a
larger market for in-vitro fertilization and other fertility treatments,
that corps of all size would exploit. A GM can integrate the idea in
multiple ways, such as:

- silly "sperm raid" on a clinic for reselling in a poorer neighborhood;
- extractions of highly specialized genecologists from a corp to another;
- getting a mage (forcefully or not) to provide a sample of his semen for a
rich woman that absolutely wants a magically active baby (that the stuff
serves quite well as a ritual link sure is a nice complication);
- close protection of a foetus-bearing mother;
- all sorts of eugenic stuff (think Humanis policlub or see Gattaca for
specific ideas);
- etc. (add your own to the list and post it).

Have fun!
_____________________________________________________

Philippe Garneau
Bachelier en Sciences, Microbiologie

Godzilla lives again! -> Memorial Day, 1998