From:	Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject:	Re: FASA's On/Off Course?
Date:	Fri, 8 May 1998 20:18:35 -0500

>
> Re: FASA's On/Off Course? (Nexx , Thu 10:27)

> > You admit to playing less SR than other games (what others?), and
> more mages / magic campaigns when you do.

> Actually, I said that, not Panther (at least what you had quoted).

Hence the > >. Thanks for picking up the thread. :)

> As for having anything against mundane characters, no, not really. Its
> just that for a very long period I wound up being the mage (or, in AD&D,
> the priest), so I got my gaming reflexes tuned towards having magic at
> hand. You read about the burned-out mage in Awakenings? That's me with a
> fighter\street meat\etc..

I can understand that... I can die very well and quickly as a
"spellcaster" in multiple systems. :)

> Someone pointed out that, being based in a real tradition, Shadowrun
> magic works better than most others, it just feels better. I whole
> heartedly agree. While I sometimes have a bit of trouble remembering the
> rules for Shadowrun, the magic system makes perfect sense (I just think I
> could improve it a bit.... but I'll post that later).

I LIKE SR's magic, I just can see there are roles that mundanes SHOULD
be able to step into, but there is not gear, rules, or settings for.

> > As
> > for the "new gadget / book" factor- how many mages go WITHOUT
intiating
> > for more than a few runs? About 0%? I'd say thats a hefty "new gadget
> > factor" that should be looked at. Just because 90% of the munchi mage
> > stuff is all in one book doesn't mean its better for the game....
>
> However, how much new stuff gets introduced for mages?

A lot, IMO, if you consider that almost every adventure and sorcebook
has something in it ONLY a mage can do, where as almost nothing has come
out that ONLY a mundane can do. The SETTING has added a lot for mages
VS mundanes.

> Sure, initiating
> is a great help, and gives the mage a huge boost... which then barely
> moves at all.

Learn enchanting, make foci, you'll pick up speed pretty fast. Design
your own spells for those "special jobs". Hell, just picking a fetish
focus, and an elemntals service, recast a locked spell (maybe using
karma pool), and you've made a MAJOR improvemnt, often, for 1 karma
point, just by boding a lock to a spell you cast better as a more
experienced mage.

> Where as a sammy or a decker only needs money, a mage burns
> more karma in a day than a sammy burns in a year (on average, of course).

The amount of money a samuri needs to advance signifigantly can be
quite high, if your talking about upgrading cyber, and use all the
medical costs. Non-cyber gear is often just as useful (and affordable)
to mages. And mundanes need karma AT LEAST as much; try learning
"boitech/firstaid" at 5 or so. Now learn "heal" at force 6. Which
costs
less karma? Which is more effective? Spells tend to REPLACE skills,
saving karma.

> And Karma requires doing shit, important shit, in order to get it.

Shit that is HARDER to do if you are mundane, many times, becasue of
all the magical threats. Sometimes shit that is IMPOSSIBLE for
non-mages.

> New
> totems can't really be counted, simply because you have to start from
> scratch if you want to use a new totem.

No, I wasn't counting new totems, or even houdons. I was simply
counting the fact that mages have a very broad range of potential
developement. That makes them look expensive, but means they don't hit
a "Karma wall" and "cyberware ceiling" like mundanes do. There are
millions of possibilites open with SR's magic system (which is VERY
cool, and I would not want this removed), while Mundnaes are more....
mundane.

I'm not griping, I'm just pointing out that I think FASA is doing a
healthy thing by exploring mundanes as PC's and "world shaping" forces.
They are, after all, the 100 to 1 majority.

-Mongoose