From:	"Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman" <jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject:	Re: Cyberware and Regeneration
Date:	Tue, 12 May 1998 13:07:09 -0700

----------
> From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Cyberware and Regeneration
> Date: Tuesday, May 12, 1998 10:20 AM
>
> Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman wrote:
> /
> / ----------
> / > From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
> / > To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> / > Subject: Re: Cyberware and Regeneration
> / > Date: Tuesday, May 12, 1998 7:32 AM
> / >
> / > Cobra wrote:
> / > /
> / > / 1/ You can't be hospitalized because regeneration power is much too
> / powerful.
> / >
> / > Actually, it could be done. You'd just have to keep slicing and
dicing
> / > until the patient's regeneration failed.
> /
> / Typically that means that they are dead. =) YMMV, though.
>
> Regeneration can fail if the person takes a Deadly wound. A Deadly
> wound does not equal death.
>
> In the controlled environment of a hospital it is possible to do
> enough "damage" to a person to kill him while keeping him alive using
> machines to take the place of organ functions. It might also be
> possible in SR to actively lower the temperature of a patient to a
> point where the cells "suspend" their activitity, thus preventing
> regeneration during surgery.

"The being cannot be killed by wounds except when the damage injures the
spine or brain. Check for this type of damage whenever the being takes a
Deadly wound or its cumulative wounds take it down. Roll 1d6. A result of
1 indicates that the being IS, INDEED, DEAD (emphasis mine). Otherwise,
wounds still hurt being, giving penalties to actions as for normal
characters, but if the wounds do not cause death, THE WOUNDS VANISH AT THE
BEGINNING OF THE NEXT COMBAT TURN (again, my emphasis).

"Damage from weapons that cause massive tissue damage (fire, explosion, and
so on) will also kill on a 1d6 die roll result of 1 or 2."

-BBB, p. 219

In short, if you do Deadly damage to a creature regenerates, he is either
dead, or will be just splendid in under three seconds. No "suspended
regeneration". This may not make sense if you think they should have
damage over flow, but that's how the rules read. Cold temperatures might
slow the function, but that's a personal call that I don't believe is
covered. Either way, it is only slowed, but I would not consider it
stopped, and it will still be a wound that will heal later and cause
problems as it tries to force the cyber out.


>
> I can think of many other ways to work around the regeneration power
> to perform surgery on someone, from using drugs to repress the power,
> to using magic.
>

I covered the drugs one. Magic is also pretty likely, and I hadn't thought
to include it in my analysis.

> Given the options available in SR I believe that it would be possible to
> perform surgery on a patient with regeneration.
>

I disagree, but ultimately it's your call, I guess.

> / IMHO, though, even if it was weakened enough to keep a wound open and
> / stick a piece of cyberware in there, it would then make a forcible
attempt
> / to try and close up the wound once the energy was restored and try to
> / remove the offending object from the body, much like I imagine it would
do
> / if it got shot.
>
> Why would a regenerator reject something that a normal person
> wouldn't? Today we can make implants that the human body will
> accept: titanium hip ball/socket joints, plastic knees, pace makers,
> steel pins and screws used to hold shattered bones together, etc.
> The cyberware of SR meets the same conditions. They are made of
> materials that a person's immune system will not recognize as a
> foreign object and will blithly ignore.
>

Given that regeners heal differently than a normal person, I'd say yes. I
don't know to emphasize that any more. They are not normal people. They
heal very differently. You gouge out a person's eye, that person no longer
has an eye. Forever and ever if he doesn't receive the benefits of
advanced cloning methods. You gouge a regener's eye out, it will attempt
to regrow the eye. If something is in the spot where that eye is at, it
will attempt to either push it out, or regrow the eye around it in a fairly
painful fashion. You rip a normal person's arm off, he will have no arm
forever and ever. You rip a regener's arm off, and his body will attempt
to regrow it, and force anything out of the way in order to accomplish it.

> So, you perform the surgery using some method to circumnavigate the
> regenerative power of the patient. You implant the cyberware. You
> return the person to normal and let the regeneration power kick in.
>
> The person's surgical "wounds" heal. The implants are not recognized
> as foreign objects, and are not rejected, and are accepted as part of
> the body.
>

I suppose this ultimately assumes that you don't believe it regrows missing
bits. Read my take on it below.

> / How about this model:
> /
> / You're a creature with regeneration. You decide to get cybereyes. You
> / have your current eyes removed, mechanical ones put it. Your
supernatural
> / ability of regeneration then will try to regrow the eyes that were
> / "damaged" by the surgical removal.
>
> Why? I'm serious. Where in the description of the power does it say
> that the power will allow the person with it to regrow lost body
> parts?
>
> I know in good old AD$D the spell Regeneration was quite clear on the
> matter. But in SR that isn't the case. And I don't feel that just
> because the power is named Regeneration that you can go by the
> definition in the dictionary. SR has a spell called Sleep that does
> nothing of the sort, instead causing stun damage to the target. The
> Name does not equal the power in SR.
>

I'll have to admit you got me there. I don't know where it says that. I
feel that it's a reasonable interpretation of the rules, I guess. If a
great dragon were to literally rip out the entrails of a regener, he still
will be automatically healed in three seconds provided that the spine and
brain are unharmed in the process. Explain to me how he will be totally
healed from that kind of damage without regrowing body parts.