| From: | Airwasp <Airwasp@***.COM> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Re: Prometheus Unbound (was Re: Astral Magic) |
| Date: | Tue, 19 May 1998 10:05:36 EDT |
Okay this is me possibly about to go on a rant, hopefully I'll be restrained
enough to not enter into such a mode however.
> This is the biggest problem I have with much of the magic stuff available
> on the Internet. People seem to believe that if they can dream it up, it
> must be possible. But that's not the case. You really have to keep in
> mind not only the current mana level but the current magic level.
It may not be possible to perform the magic, but there is nothing to say that
the theory can not be worked up. And, if there is some form of magic for
which the mana is not high enough to perform like a normal spell, then make
the spell a ritual, as they are inherently more powerful than the normal spell
being flung on a whim.
> And do you really think some sleaze-bag shadowrunner is going to somehow
> come up with some amazing magical invention when there are hundreds of
> specialized scientists/theorists/magicians who do this sort of research day
> in and day out? Possible, but not bloody likely.
Necessity is the mother of all inventions. All of the scientist and people in
the world can do their best, but if something is truly needed by one
individual, then they will try and do something about it. And in the world of
SR, there are a lot of things people can accomplish if they push themselves to
do it.
And as for shadowrunners, they have to stay on the cutting edge, otherwise the
demand for themselves will slowly vanish (along the lines of dead-end tech).
And anything a runner can do to stay one small or large step ahead of everyone
else means they are one of the nova hot runners, and will get the cred for the
big runs, and will be the ones people will turn to to get things done.
> We can dream up hand-held laser guns. But does anybody honestly believe
> those will be possible in our lifetimes? I don't.
Hey, chummer, Hand-held lasers will be available within the military in 20 to
30 years. They already have an option for special forces people which places
a small cartridge into a undermount grenade launcher, and when the trigger is
pulled a chemical reaction takes place and shoots out a laser beam.
As for a laser sword, please note, the sword is being made from something
which is in the books, the Eye Tool Laser which does 4L damage. Now, imagine
the damage potential of a true Tool Laser which does not have the limitation
of being within the eyeball cavity and has a larger power source. The amount
and quality of the damage will increase greatly.
A note to you, it has been said by a lot of computer manufacturers that modern
computers, the mainframes, are going to be on par with the ones they mention
in Star Trek, so, reality and fiction are fast becoming a reality. And IIRC,
somewhere I read that a computer of today would be faster and better than the
computer that was on the original Enterprise, if it actually existed.
> Magic is similar. What is currently possible is based upon two general
> concepts. First, as with science, nearly all innovation is the product of
> research and is built upon the successes of the here and now, that it all
> builds upon each other and there are few "leaps" that allow
> technology/knowledge to bounce forward several steps. Progress is usually
> a slow progression in other words, not amazing leaps forward. And the
> second is the whole "mana curve" thing, that seems to indicate that
> whatever it is that "powers" magic (almost certainly mana) is rising.
This
> curve is thought to be relatively flat. And remember, there is that bit in
> the Dragonheart saga about stamping out those spikes.
>
> Even given those two factors, magic allows an incredible amount of things
> to be done.
Progress is never slow, it is fast and destructive to those who will not
change, and it only slows down when the technological infrastructure is
getting ready for the next leap in the technology level. And as for progress
being slow, compare the technology level of the beginning of the century and
today. I would call that a massive and rapid change.
> But if you look at magical knowledge in a fashion similar to "mundane"
> knowledge, you'd see that things like teleportation simply isn't possible.
If you say that it is not possible, then you are limiting the knowledge which
can be learned. And don't tell me that the megas don't all have big mages
working on developing Teleportation.
> Why not?
>
> Okay, here goes. What is teleportation? It, in some fashion, takes object
> A and very nearly instantaneously takes object a from point 1 to point 2.
Okay, I can believe that. Though, doing something in SR that is
instantaneous, is something that happens only with LOS spells.
Okay, an example of this. Part one, a mage is going to cast a Hellblast (one
of my fav spells) at something that is 400 meters away. He gets a success and
the spell goes off blowing the frag out of it.
Now then, part two. If the same mage could see a target from a distance of
40,000 kilometers (this is an example). It states somewhere that a mage can
travel in the astral at speeds equal to his Attribute in thousands of kph, so,
extending this to spells, though making it the force of the spell in kph. The
force of the spell is a 4. This means a speed of 4,000 kph, and it is going
to take the spell 10 hours to get to the target.
Now then, part three, same mage, same spell (only combat), and a distance of
40,000 kilometers, though this time there is a twist, the mage has an active
spell lock for a person on the target which is 40k away. Mage grounds the
spell through the spell lock, the spell goes off instantaneously at the other
end. No ten hours of waiting, no nothing.
So, as for the teleportation spell, it can be limited unless the caster is
casting the spell through a grounding link.
And as for the drain of the spell, the caster best be able to center very well
or have lots of dice.
> Star Trek transporters in other words. We can now come up with a theory
> about how it might work. But there are so many pieces of not-yet-invented
> technology that prevent us from doing it. I am aware that an experiment
> was done that teleported a single particle from one set of coordinates to
> another. But that is one particle, from a predeterimined point a to point
> b, and if I recall correctly, the procedure didn't work even most of the
> time.
Tech is always harder to make, but once made is something that is easily mass-
produced and replicated. Magic is not so easily replicated or mass-produced.
> Now to magic. How would magic do this? The human mind simply can't handle
> all the coordinates needed to do AD$D teleportation; to take a scientific
> approach like that you'd have to map all your own coordinates and then know
> the exact coordinates to where they are supposed to go. Don't like that
> option much.
No, in AD&D, all the caster needed to know was the place enough to know it was
there. And the more the caster knew about the place the less chance they had
of fragging themselves once they got there.
They same goes in SR, though when applied to rituals and when trying to cast a
spell where the caster has no knowledge about where the spell is going. Ever
cast a spell to go off roughly 60 meters on the other side of the wall without
knowing what was truly there ?
> What about taking the body into the astral plane and doing it that way? As
> ED has shown, that is possible, given appropriate mana and tech levels.
> But this isn't currently possible in 205X; this comes from a conversation I
> had with Steve Kenson about two years ago when I was writing an article for
> the now-defunct Shadowlands magazine.
True, but for an intiated mage, the mana potential that they can access is far
greater than a non-initiated mage also, they have direct access to the
metaplanes.
> Given the current knowledge limitations, I just don't see things like
> teleportation and astral aura altering to "squeeze" past barriers.
>
> But I'll throw a dog a bone on the teleportation issue.
>
> The *ONLY* way I had teleportation in a game I played in and sometimes
> GM'ed was that it was a one-way, single shot type deal that was thought up
> by another GM and I couldn't exactly stomp it out since it was a collective
> world.
If you have the book of Horrors for Earthdawn, consider the section under
Nemesis. He has teleportation, though from link to link, via a grounding link.
We have this guy in our games here. We have also given him a different name,
Azag, and he is currently the patron for a runner group, though they do not
know he is a horror, they just know that he is an exception enchanter and has
oodles of cred for their toys.
> But here's my best offering for those people that simply *must* have
> teleportation. A magical circle had to be set up and from there the spell
> was cast. Something like 12D Physical drain, flat rate. The caster then
> had a special charm that he kept with him. When the charm was used, it
> would teleport the caster back to the special magical circle. Naked. All
> active magical items disrupted (since the route taken back was an alternate
> dimension sort of thing).
Sounds like some something vindictive and sorry, <rant engaged> something
close-minded. <rant disengaged>
> It made for a nice emergency exit when things got FUBAR squared, but it
> wasn't something to be used in 99.99% of situations.
You are right, and we suggest the pcs don't use teleportation here, as we have
had it in the games for the last 5-6 years, all of the time, and when they
abuse the use, they get smacked for it. Like a pissed off spirit which
intercepts them in the astral, or the spell is dispelled in mid-transit
plopping them off wherever they may be.
> That is how I would suggest allowing teleportation if you are dead-set on
> having it.
Sorry if I may have flamed you, I was tired, and the "attitude" of the letter
was too much for me.
