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Tim Kerby wrote:

> Last night I posted an idea about a teleport spell using
> clones, and that lead me to think about something else. You
> can use DNA like a blood sample, skin, or hair as a ritual
> link. Now what if the target of the ritual has a clone? Since
> this clone's DNA is an exact replica of the target's, what
> happens to the ritual spell? Does it affect the target, the
> clone, or both simultaneously?

Ritual magic still targets a person's *aura*, not genes; the genetic
material simply gives an insight as to an individual's aura. Although
genetically identical, the two clones would have different auras - just
like real-life twins have slightly different experiences that does
indeed make them different people.

I think it'd be a pretty cool game effect if there were two people who
'shared an aura'; although a spell might not ground through both of them
simultaneously, there might be sympathetic or reverberent effects.

You'd have lots of weird mojo if this thing happened on a more general
level, though. Remember that iedntical twins are 'clones', genetically
speaking; not to mention that cloning happens on a commercial level in
SR - you'd not only hellblast the target, but fry the bio-liver implant
DocWagon was growing for him :)

Two final nails in the coffin:

To my understanding, clones can't become fully viable human beings, so
you couldn't just have them walk out into the crowd. Maybe have them
wheeled out in wheelchairs?

Also, you should be able to see *everybody* in the crowd (some a bit
more indistinctly than others) and so you wouldn't have to worry about
grounding through clones. Regardless of that their aura looks like, if
they're out of the area of effect in the astral, they're not going to be
affected by the spell - so no grounding out through them.

Interesting idea of similar auras, though - something I've been mucking
about with myself, with no great outcome.


- Matt

------------------------------------
In a dark time, the eye begins to see. - T. Roethke

GridSec: SRCard
Teen Poets FAQ: http://pw1.netcom.com/~mbreton/poetry/poetfaq.htm
SRTCG Website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/2189/ccgtop.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 23:15:12 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Geoff Morochnick <bodiam@**********.COM>
Organization: Heaven, Inc.
Subject: Re: More thoughts about clones and magic
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> Last night I posted an idea about a teleport spell using
> clones, and that lead me to think about something else. You
> can use DNA like a blood sample, skin, or hair as a ritual
> link. Now what if the target of the ritual has a clone? Since
> this clone's DNA is an exact replica of the target's, what
> happens to the ritual spell? Does it affect the target, the
> clone, or both simultaneously?

My ever so humble guess is that magic is "smart" enough to be able to
figure out which clone the DNA sample came from... after all, there'd be
differences in the tissue from any two peopl, evenif they had the same
DNA... (different experiences of the clones would cause different
chemical balances and a host of other things)

>
>
> Let's say it's the latter (which is the result I am leaning
> toward); consider this. Let's say a mage wants to take out a
> large group of people in one fell swoop (like a rioting mob,
> or an enemy army). Insert a group of clones (all alike) into
> the mob at spaced intervals. The mage then casts a ritual into
> the target; one of the clones, or the original. The spell will
> ground out through all the clones. If an area effect physical
> spell was cast, a very large area could be covered. The clones
> would probably get wasted, but so would a lot of people in the
> target area.
> What do you think? Feasible, whacked-out, or just plain silly?

Even if the magic did effect all of the clones equally, I beleive the
BBB says that you can't ritually cast combat spells... maybe a good
damaging manipulation spell, though..

>
>
> - Tim Kerby - drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -



--
Stonebow
The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other
bastard die for his.
-George Patton
bodiam@**********.com
http://www.geocities.com/area51/corridor/8427
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 23:56:07 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: BigDaddy <bigdaddy@*****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Re: Real Life catching up with Shadowrun?
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Actually if you want a good place to learn about new and upcoming stuff
designed by corps. Goto the local book store Popular mechanics and
popular science always have good inventions rolling out the door
everymonth. portable data pad, laser guided shuttles, laser weapons,
etc. etc. etc.
--
Napalm Sticks to Kidz,
BigDaddy
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 00:08:31 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MgkellyMP5 <MgkellyMP5@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztech Armoured Troopers
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In a message dated 98-05-19 20:20:57 EDT, you write:

<< >and Rigger-controlled Behemoths.
>I shit you not.

>>How the Christ do you remote-rig a Behemoth? Or do I not want to know?<<

Modified Remote Gear, according to the GM (hell, they give dogs Reflex Wires.
Just amkes them less controllable).

>We had to hit the facility (amidst all the confusion,destruction, and
>fireballs),find the riggers controlling the bastards, and whack them to
stop
>the Behemoths (one of whom ate a LAW rocket and kept going).

>> What, you took anti-tank rockets and forgot the Panther Assault Cannon?
:-)<<

Hell, we had TWO Panthers and the LAWs did more damage....
Check the Armor and Body Ratings of the Behemoth. Good thing the GM just
decided that they were Rigged and not Armored as well. Never know how the corp
would find ways around the 'Cyber-psychosis' that occur when animals are
cybered. Particularly with Aztech, I'm sure a mage could design some sort of
spell to control it. Control Thoughts/Control Actions type mana spell maybe?
Who knows, but it makes a good plot device and keeps things interesting (hell,
we don't know what the government is doing behind our backs nowadays. Who
knows would a mega-corp would try?)

Mgkelly
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 00:18:41 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx3 <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Prometheus Unbound (was Re: Astral Magic)
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Actually, I was doing some thinking. I think space fold could be made
instantaneous, and wouldn't have that big of a cost (aside from the ritual
elements... at least, not as far as a megacorp is concerned.

The GGD, as we know, didn't measure drain in terms of fatigue or even health
levels. It measured it in terms of deaths. Now then, one of these bright-boy
mages just happened to stay awake through biology long enough to realize that
they were dealing with things that were alive, therefore possessing some
measure of astral presence. He also learned, once he got out of college, that
his corp could gene-engineer samples to be astrally active. This bright boy
does some figuring, and starts playing around with an idea for teleportation
(like his bosses want... any way possible).

This mondo ritual is actually a form of space fold (if you don't know what
that is, skip the rest of this... use the time to read A Wrinkle in Time...
tessering is space fold). Now, since the deaths that are brought about to
suffer the drain must be active in the ritual, he designs, in the spell
formula, a way for them to be integral parts of the ritual. The result is
that he (along with his fellow magicians, who willl hate him for coming up
with this and making them look bad) can tesser some(one/thing) to any location
that he either has a ritual link to or has a member of the team spotting for
him.

Now, how to make space fold instaneous. Normal space fold just makes you go
really face compared to normal, non-folded space. What you do in this case is
fold space very tightly, so points A and B are about half a meter apart for
the purposes of this spell. The subject shifts his weight to the foot at
point B, and the magician stops sustaining the spell. With a jolt, the
subject is at his destination. Since space is folded, not shrunk, he
simultaneously exists at points A and B until the spell is no long sustained..
then he's only at point B.

Did that make any sense whatsoever?

Nexx
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 01:00:10 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx3 <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Prometheus Unbound (long)
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In a message dated 98-05-19 14:21:15 EDT, you write:

<< And ritual magic isn't inherently more powerful than "common" magic, it
merely allows more mana to be channeled because there are more conduits for
magic (i.e. more casters) and the mana builds much slower. But in the end,
a Force 6 Acid Bomb is still a Force 6 Acid Bomb regardless if it is cast
via ritual or "common" magic. >>

Yeah, but you can't blow the top off the top of a mountain with a normal
spell, but a ritual can handle it. You can't target someone on the other side
of the planet with a normal spell, but you can with a ritual spell. You can't
alter (or summon) an ally with a normal spell. You don't summon elementals
with a normal spell. About the only thing that normal spells have on ritual
spells is speed. You can whip one of those off, no problem. Rituals take
more time.

Hey, something mostly unrelated, but interesting nonetheless... would Wired
Reflexes increase your initiative for the purposes of casting spells? After
all, you can't really channel the mana along the wires like you can along the
neural pathways, so they wouldn't be sped up (the magic loss is taken care of,
but there is still the matter of speed). And what good is enhanced
articulation when trying to cast a spell? It raises your initiative a bit
(one point), but you can't pull the energy from astral space any faster. This
goes for a lot of things (encephalons, type O bioware, boosted reflexes, etc.)
Any thoughts?

Nexx
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 01:14:28 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx3 <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Petrolia? (Re: Considering things from St. Dunkhelzahn's
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In a message dated 98-05-19 16:10:21 EDT, you write:

<< The statement is 301 KM's west of Petrolia...big Volcanic Eruption....and
the
"land and mineral rites" are being given to Federated Boeing. That last
statement led me to believe that the "land" might not exist yet, hence we're
doing this in the Pacific Ocean. >>

K, you're being an American again <g>. How do we know its not going to be in
the middle of the Atlantic, 301 km west of something in Europe (or Africa...
hell, even India)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 01:15:10 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx3 <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Defaulting (was Summer Time)
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In a message dated 98-05-19 16:12:42 EDT, you write:

<< > Were do you get the "1 die removed" from? Is that in the SRC?
And I
> changed it from a +2 to a +1 on purpose. Having and +2 *and* a ratio
> modifier would be a bit much, IMHO.
>
I don't recall off hand, yeah, it's probably from the Companion. We use it
in
order to keep things in our games a bit balanced (cough) >>

IIRC, that was a rule that applied to adept bonus dice, not all skills.

Nexx
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 17:19:56 +1200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: Aztech Armoured Troopers
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Quoth MgkellyMP5 (1609 20-5-98 NZT):

>In a message dated 98-05-19 20:20:57 EDT, you write:
<<SLICE>>
> >>How the Christ do you remote-rig a Behemoth? Or do I not want to
know?<<
>
>Modified Remote Gear, according to the GM (hell, they give dogs Reflex
Wires.
>Just amkes them less controllable).
>
> >We had to hit the facility (amidst all the confusion,destruction, and
> >fireballs),find the riggers controlling the bastards, and whack them
to
> stop
> >the Behemoths (one of whom ate a LAW rocket and kept going).
>
>>> What, you took anti-tank rockets and forgot the Panther Assault
Cannon?
> :-)<<
>
>Hell, we had TWO Panthers and the LAWs did more damage....

Your GM doesn't like your PCs much, does he? :-)

>Check the Armor and Body Ratings of the Behemoth. Good thing the GM
just
>decided that they were Rigged and not Armored as well. Never know how
the corp
>would find ways around the 'Cyber-psychosis' that occur when animals
are
>cybered. Particularly with Aztech, I'm sure a mage could design some
sort of

Like you said, they managed it for dogs (see 'Cybercurs' under the
Shadowrun Archive's Critters category for full packages) and panthers
(an evil GM((tm)) posted something about it a while ago), so why not
Behemoths? <*whimper of fear*> Figure every creature has a base Essence
of 6, and what do you have? A bona fide night-fraggin'-mare when the
corps twig, that's what. (Do *you* want to mess with a grizzly bear
that has Muscle Replacements, dermal armour, Wired Reflexes and dikoted
teeth?)

>spell to control it. Control Thoughts/Control Actions type mana spell
maybe?
>Who knows, but it makes a good plot device and keeps things interesting
(hell,
>we don't know what the government is doing behind our backs nowadays.
Who
>knows would a mega-corp would try?)

Don't get me started on the conspiracy stuff, or you'll think I'm a
candidate for a padded cell. But you're right; I have to remember this
one for my PC's next visit to a high-security compound....(*Scribbles
down notes* Remote-rigged Behemoths, cybered guard-animals,
magically-controlled paranimals...)

<Evil GM laughter fading into the distance>

Danyel Woods
9604801@********.ac.nz
'Then it's time to teach 'em something every human knows:
payback's a bitch.'
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 01:39:26 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: While you were out ...
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In a message dated 5/19/98 7:11:57 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.COM writes:

> Side note: When a Shapeshifter attacks a Ward or other astral entity
> while in human form, does it use the animal form damage since "its
> alternate form is always visible [on the astral]"?
>
In a word, Yes..

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 01:42:38 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztech Armoured Troopers
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In a message dated 5/19/98 7:24:10 PM US Eastern Standard Time, erikj@****.COM
writes:

<snip ED-209> ideas...

> I'd imagine this would probably fit in under a large walker drone or
> something similar from R2. I'd have to think that a similar frame would be
> enough to pack all the nasties you'd want. Keith? I know you and Mike
> know R2 backwards and forwards (too many numbers for me), got any ideas?

I know that Mike has worked up stuff similar to this. Mike, do you still have
that -thing- you sicked on Webster and the guys back when we were in
Redmond(???)

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 01:50:53 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: More thoughts about clones and magic (shameless plug)
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In a message dated 5/19/98 9:15:53 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
drekhead@***.NET writes:

<snipped comments on Clones and Ritual Magic "Confusion">
> What do you think? Feasible, whacked-out, or just plain silly?
>
Actually, it's a very good question. BUT, it is one that I am not in the mood
to answer ATM...sorry...

-K

(shamless plug) <GO SEE GODZILLA IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY!!!!!! WAY COOL!!!!
I LOVE IT!!!!>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 01:55:53 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Petrolia? (Re: Considering things from St. Dunkhelzahn's
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 5/20/98 12:15:24 AM US Eastern Standard Time, Nexx3@***.COM
writes:

> << The statement is 301 KM's west of Petrolia...big Volcanic Eruption....and
> the
> "land and mineral rites" are being given to Federated Boeing. That last
> statement led me to believe that the "land" might not exist yet, hence
we'
> re
> doing this in the Pacific Ocean. >>
>
> K, you're being an American again <g>. How do we know its not going to be
> in
> the middle of the Atlantic, 301 km west of something in Europe (or
Africa...
> hell, even India)
>
I know I am, but the concept is so far fitting better with the game idea. But
we are seriously looking for some ideas. If the "off the coast of California"
is the correct one, then we are definitely doing some game rewrites I'd guess.
If it's not, then we won't be so bad off.

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 02:00:49 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztech Armoured Troopers
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In a message dated 5/20/98 12:23:10 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
9604801@********.AC.NZ writes:

> Don't get me started on the conspiracy stuff, or you'll think I'm a
> candidate for a padded cell. But you're right; I have to remember this
> one for my PC's next visit to a high-security compound....(*Scribbles
> down notes* Remote-rigged Behemoths, cybered guard-animals,
> magically-controlled paranimals...)
>
> <Evil GM laughter fading into the distance>
>
Actually, IIRC, the rules once stated things that "animals could have cyber as
well, and have the same essence loss, with the exception of "Control Cyber",
which each piece incurs a full 1 point essence loss." Now don't ask me why I
remember that from oh so long ago.

It would of course cost more, and the facilities would be even more rare than
the one's for people. Okay, maybe not the facilities, but most likely, the
people.

And be warned, cyber in some crittesr is an AWESOME combination. Bone Lacing
for barghests for example...-THE- choice of evilness once in a while....

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 18:24:17 +1200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: Giving blood in 205X: common or rare?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Having submitted to the Red Cross and their needles last Thursday for
the public good (and it didn't hurt a bit!), I was paging through Aztlan
and met the Blood Magic section, which got me thinking.

In our modern world, giving blood is no big deal; as long as there's no
risk of infection or you're not a haemophiliac, it's not a danger. In
Shadowrun, though, a blood sample can be used for ritual sendings, blood
magic, and lots of other creative nastiness. Given this, would people
would actually give blood (whether to a corporate or public
health-provider)? What would it say about those people? What sort of
psychological/sociological issues would this produce - e.g., would it
become a litmus test, like abortion/affirmative action/gun-control?

<*Not* trying to start controversy on the last three issues, but still
curious...>

Danyel Woods
9604801@********.ac.nz
'Are you deliberately trying to drive me insane?'
'The universe is already mad. Anything else would be
redundant.'
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 23:37:50 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: roun <roun@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Giving blood in 205X: common or rare?
In-Reply-To: <81F7A43B468BD111AFEC00A024EA0A2B09D386@*********.polytech.ac.nz>
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upon one occasion danyel woods wrote:
----------
| Having submitted to the Red Cross and their needles last Thursday for
| the public good (and it didn't hurt a bit!), I was paging through Aztlan
| and met the Blood Magic section, which got me thinking.
|
| In our modern world, giving blood is no big deal; as long as there's no
| risk of infection or you're not a haemophiliac, it's not a danger. In
| Shadowrun, though, a blood sample can be used for ritual sendings, blood
| magic, and lots of other creative nastiness. Given this, would people
| would actually give blood (whether to a corporate or public
| health-provider)? What would it say about those people? What sort of
| psychological/sociological issues would this produce - e.g., would it
| become a litmus test, like abortion/affirmative action/gun-control?
|
| <*Not* trying to start controversy on the last three issues, but still
| curious...>

wow, a very good question. do they synthesize all the blood using a better
grade plasma than we can produce now??? i think given how many things can
be grown (limbs and all that crap) that hospitals would just produce blood
in percentages according to the percentage of different blood types in the
nation or corp they serve. just another charge to add on to your hospital
bill!!! (and they love to do that).

so saying that, i do not think, IMHO, that people would be needed to give
blood, except to replenish supplies of blood that are used to grow/produce
blood/plasma through cloning/vat growth techniques. think, in shadowtech
they talk about it in the comments, where KAM from Universal Omnitech says
(paraphrased) that they produce a whole body just for an arm and recycle
the rest, but probably steal the blood first (and other parts) as well.

whew, don't usually spout so much shit in one go!

roun aka dave
roun@***.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 01:53:07 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Blood Magic (Your gonna hate this one ...[well maybe :) ])

Don't worry, I don't wanna know how to make PC Blood Mages ... well, not
exactly, anyway... Could you make a ex-Blood mage (Just a RP thing.
Maybe a few special Edges/flaws [Bad karma comes to mind] no actual Blood
Magic) that defected from Aztlan or maybe somewhere else like Amazonia
(Is this the right one?)? Or is the only PC Blood magic-related
character option available a burned out mage? I know even the last isn't
allowed per FASA, but I was wondering what you guys had to say on the
matter. What would you allow among PCs and why?

NOTE: This is just a curiousity ... I most likely won't allow anything
more than the last option, if that. And to answer my own question
completely: because 1) I don't want put anything in PCs hands that isn't
fleshed out and 2) I want to reduce the death toll in my games, not
increase it by letting Mages reduce or eliminate drain by geeking the Sec
Cops... (Ick, can you imagine "Knock them out so I can use them for spell
food later ..."?). At most this would be a "Ok, I'll give you this as
long as you don't use it" sort of thing ...

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)

_____________________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:13:23 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Giving blood in 205X: common or rare?
In-Reply-To: <MAPI.Id.0016.006f756e202020203030303430303034@****.to.RFC8 22>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>upon one occasion danyel woods wrote:
>----------
>| Having submitted to the Red Cross and their needles last Thursday for
>| the public good (and it didn't hurt a bit!), I was paging through Aztlan
>| and met the Blood Magic section, which got me thinking.
>|
>| In our modern world, giving blood is no big deal; as long as there's no
>| risk of infection or you're not a haemophiliac, it's not a danger. In
>| Shadowrun, though, a blood sample can be used for ritual sendings, blood
>| magic, and lots of other creative nastiness. Given this, would people
>| would actually give blood (whether to a corporate or public
>| health-provider)? What would it say about those people? What sort of
>| psychological/sociological issues would this produce - e.g., would it
>| become a litmus test, like abortion/affirmative action/gun-control?
>
>wow, a very good question. do they synthesize all the blood using a better
>grade plasma than we can produce now??? i think given how many things can
>be grown (limbs and all that crap) that hospitals would just produce blood
>in percentages according to the percentage of different blood types in the
>nation or corp they serve. just another charge to add on to your hospital
>bill!!! (and they love to do that).
>
>so saying that, i do not think, IMHO, that people would be needed to give
>blood, except to replenish supplies of blood that are used to grow/produce
>blood/plasma through cloning/vat growth techniques. think, in shadowtech
>they talk about it in the comments, where KAM from Universal Omnitech says
>(paraphrased) that they produce a whole body just for an arm and recycle
>the rest, but probably steal the blood first (and other parts) as well.

That's fine but we could add some points :
1/ It's always less costly when people give their blood than when you have
to clone it.
2/ I don't think people bother about giving their blood, even in SR. Most
joe citizens don't know anything about rituals, blood magic and other
things like this.
3/ A good plot would be for an institute to use rituals on the custommers
who gave them some blodd. Perhaps they could develop a way to cast a ritual
on multiple targets and influence them to buy some products.

- Cobra.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:49:14 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Skillz to pay the billz
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980519101031.242fe9a6@****.fbiz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Erik Jameson said on 14:03/19 May 98...

> Gurth, I love that. It makes a lot of sense to me, and it should work in
> the confines of SR also.

*bows* Thank you, thank you :)

> As Max pointed out, since he knows a lot about computers (I think he at
> least implied that anyway) he would have less "ramp up" time to learn how
> to set up a LAN or something, than if it was someone like me who is a
> classic "user." I think your modification reflects this more basic
> knowledge set but more accurately portrays how people really tend to
> concentrate into certain areas.

That's basically the idea behind it. SR's concentrations are a good idea,
but they would work better if enforced, IMHO. So far the only skill that
does that is Etiquette, and in my game Physical Sciences (it makes _no_
sense to me that someone knows a lot about physics, chemistry, and what
have you all at the same time; most scientist-types know a lot about one
of those and just a little about the rest).

> I'm not sure if I'll spring it on my players, since SR3 will be out
> relatively soon (August), but if SR3 doesn't incorporate something like
> this, I probably will make this change of yours at that point.

I doubt SRIII will add something like this :(

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
En ik zal het heen twee keer zehhen.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:49:14 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Petrolia? (Re: Considering things from St. Dunkhelzahn's
In-Reply-To: <7c6b307d.356266b6@***.com>
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Nexx3 said on 1:14/20 May 98...

> K, you're being an American again <g>. How do we know its not going to be in
> the middle of the Atlantic, 301 km west of something in Europe (or Africa...
> hell, even India)

Because only Americans can think of a name like "Petrolia" for a city? ;)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
En ik zal het heen twee keer zehhen.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:49:13 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Summer Time
In-Reply-To: <1a1f0553.3561e66a@***.com>
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Ereskanti said on 16:07/19 May 98...

> > 2: Back on Topic (well at least back on Shadowrun) could someone tell me
> > what the speed of sound is at sea level in SR speed. this one's because
> > I think I've designed a Motorbike that could excede it. I don't have
> > the stats here so you'll have to wait until after the Weekend until you
> > see them (assuming you want to that is )
> >
> IIRC, it's the "1000" speed listed as maximum for many things. Works out
> about right in the end even.

This is easy: the speed of sound is 340 m/s or so; since SR turns are 3
seconds long, multiply by 3 (to 1,020) and you have the speed of sound in
SR vehicle speeds.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
En ik zal het heen twee keer zehhen.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:49:15 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: ECARD (Pre-Godzilla)
In-Reply-To: <3b231236.35620ba3@***.com>
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Ereskanti said on 18:45/19 May 98...

> And as a reminder, I have spoken with the nice lady at FASA who told me they
> are in the hospital, trying to induce labor. So come on folks, let's get this
> ball loaded...

Okay, then I'll finally give in and ask you to add my name^H^H^H^H nick
and address as well, and Dvixen's too (Dvixen@********.com).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
En ik zal het heen twee keer zehhen.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:49:13 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Defaulting (was Summer Time)
In-Reply-To: <472100da.35619fe3@***.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Ereskanti said on 11:06/19 May 98...

> Actually guy, the "Defaulting through the Web" already has penalties. +2
per
> dot already

Yes.

> -AND- 1 die removed from the "defaulting skill".

Oh? Only get the +2 per dot applies to normal skills. Physical adept
Increased Ability dice are removed at one for each dot passed, but not
normal skill dice.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
En ik zal het heen twee keer zehhen.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:49:14 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Just thought I'd say hello
In-Reply-To: <01bd8377$9eda5ea0$1d5f2399@****>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Graelorn said on 18:44/19 May 98...

A little request: could you disable the Reply-To field in your mailer
(look it up in the Options and make it blank)? It's overriding that of the
list.

> And so, I thought joing this list would be a good way for me to get up to
> date on the setting. Besides SRII, Shadowtech and SS catalougue2 I have not
> bought any SR stuff at all. So, if no one cares I may occasionally ask for
> quick overviews of products and such. :o)

If it's still available, you could download the first issue of The
Shadowrun Supplemental (Adam will probably give you the address if I
mention here that I've forgotten it and don't feel like starting up my WWW
browser :) where there's a bunch of reviews of most SR books published up
until early last year.

> Well here are a couple of starter questions...
>
> 1.) Has Japan (Mega-Tokyo?) been detailed in any source books, yet?

Not really; IIRC FASA has said they aren't going to do a Japan sourcebook
any time soon. I believe it's mainly because they like locals to write
location sourcebooks.

> 2.) What is the current stae of the SR universe from that described in SRII?
> Has anything "big happened"? If so, what were the ramifications?

Several big things happened, which I'll mention after the spoiler space
below:
















In August 2054 there was a major nreakout of insect spirits in Chicago.
This is described in the ug City sourcebook.

In August 2057, the great dragon Dunkelzahn was assassinated, a few hours
after being inaugurated as UCAS president. (See Portfolio Of A Dragon.)

1 January 2058 saw the murder of mafia don James O'Malley. (See Mob War!.)

Later in 2058, there's lots of stuff going on with the megacorps, but I
haven't got the book(s) yet so I don't know the details.

These are only the major events, there are smaller things happening as
well.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
En ik zal het heen twee keer zehhen.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 03:25:59 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Re: T-Shirts
In-Reply-To: <199805191358.HAA29368@******.carl.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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> I've got 4 megs on my web site that I'm not using. I'll volunteer
> to put you your idea :)

Thank you most kindly..However, Ereskanti volunteered first..and
somehow it doesn't seem efficient to have to pics all over in
different machines..but if you would link to the pics..I would
appreciate it...Thanks..

--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
Kind of a bummer. Gettin' your butt kicked by a dead guy.
- Lt Col McQueen
Understanding is a three edged sword. - Kosh
What is best in life?
To Crush Your Enemies,
To See Them Driven Before You,
To Hear The Lamentation Of Their Women. -Conan
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 03:25:58 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Re: T-Shirts
In-Reply-To: <19980519152933.5605.qmail@*******.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

>(from Granite's sig see below(with his/the Authors permission))

I would not be so bold as to either give permission or deny it..
I am not the author..I only tweeked my version by a few of words
from the version of it I found in the NSA compys from when I worked
there..So it would have to be done by vote..Although I am not sure
there would be room for it..
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
Kind of a bummer. Gettin' your butt kicked by a dead guy.
- Lt Col McQueen
Understanding is a three edged sword. - Kosh
What is best in life?
To Crush Your Enemies,
To See Them Driven Before You,
To Hear The Lamentation Of Their Women. -Conan
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 11:46:33 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: ECARD (Pre-Godzilla)
In-Reply-To: <199805200848.KAA18002@*****.xs4all.nl>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>> And as a reminder, I have spoken with the nice lady at FASA who told me
they
>> are in the hospital, trying to induce labor. So come on folks, let's
get this
>> ball loaded...
>
>Okay, then I'll finally give in and ask you to add my name^H^H^H^H nick
>and address as well, and Dvixen's too (Dvixen@********.com).

He! He! I'll be the last one : Cobra (wgallas@*****.fr).

- Cobra H.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 03:57:39 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses Publishing
Subject: Re: Giving blood in 205X: common or rare?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Danyel N Woods wrote:

> In our modern world, giving blood is no big deal; as long as there's no
> risk of infection or you're not a haemophiliac, it's not a danger. In
> Shadowrun, though, a blood sample can be used for ritual sendings, blood
> magic, and lots of other creative nastiness. Given this, would people
> would actually give blood (whether to a corporate or public
> health-provider)? What would it say about those people? What sort of
> psychological/sociological issues would this produce - e.g., would it
> become a litmus test, like abortion/affirmative action/gun-control?

I imagine by 205x they have either artificial blood supplies, or lots of
clone to siphon off of. :) Blood magic probably spurred that one
on....

Now a urinanalysis, on the other hand....


- Matt

------------------------------------
In a dark time, the eye begins to see. - T. Roethke

GridSec: SRCard
Teen Poets FAQ: http://pw1.netcom.com/~mbreton/poetry/poetfaq.htm
SRTCG Website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/2189/ccgtop.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 04:02:00 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses Publishing
Subject: Re: Giving blood in 205X: common or rare?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Cobra wrote:

> >so saying that, i do not think, IMHO, that people would be needed to give
> >blood, except to replenish supplies of blood that are used to grow/produce
> >blood/plasma through cloning/vat growth techniques. think, in shadowtech
> >they talk about it in the comments, where KAM from Universal Omnitech says
> >(paraphrased) that they produce a whole body just for an arm and recycle
> >the rest, but probably steal the blood first (and other parts) as well.
>
> That's fine but we could add some points :
> 1/ It's always less costly when people give their blood than when you have
> to clone it.
> 2/ I don't think people bother about giving their blood, even in SR. Most
> joe citizens don't know anything about rituals, blood magic and other
> things like this.
> 3/ A good plot would be for an institute to use rituals on the custommers
> who gave them some blodd. Perhaps they could develop a way to cast a ritual
> on multiple targets and influence them to buy some products.

The Red Cross tries to maintain a bit of identity-protection with blood
donors now; maybe in the future they'd use a Mass Sterilize spell. Be
sort of a pain to try a ritual only you ended up nabbing the wrong bag
from the Red Cross (er - DocWagon) vaults. Especially if you wanted to
screw your target over in a highly noticeable fashion.


- Matt

------------------------------------
In a dark time, the eye begins to see. - T. Roethke

GridSec: SRCard
Teen Poets FAQ: http://pw1.netcom.com/~mbreton/poetry/poetfaq.htm
SRTCG Website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/2189/ccgtop.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:12:16 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Giving blood in 205X: common or rare?
In-Reply-To: <3562B828.AE3@**.netcom.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>> That's fine but we could add some points :
>> 1/ It's always less costly when people give their blood than when you have
>> to clone it.
>> 2/ I don't think people bother about giving their blood, even in SR. Most
>> joe citizens don't know anything about rituals, blood magic and other
>> things like this.
>> 3/ A good plot would be for an institute to use rituals on the custommers
>> who gave them some blodd. Perhaps they could develop a way to cast a ritual
>> on multiple targets and influence them to buy some products.
>
>The Red Cross tries to maintain a bit of identity-protection with blood
>donors now; maybe in the future they'd use a Mass Sterilize spell. Be
>sort of a pain to try a ritual only you ended up nabbing the wrong bag
>from the Red Cross (er - DocWagon) vaults. Especially if you wanted to
>screw your target over in a highly noticeable fashion.

And if Doc Wagon was the one who did it ?...
They couldn't make big use of these rituals because they would be noticed
and would suffer from a loss of profit. But if they only influence the
products you buy, this wouldn't be so obvious.

The sterilize spell awakens some questions :
1/ Is the blood (we'll consider in the same group) of a mundane the same as
an awakened ?
2/ If so, would a sterilize spell modify the sample in a way that it no
longer works with a mage ?
3/ Did anyone ever think about the proportion of mages at DocWagon. I
always wondered why there's no price for magical healing in SR2 or NAGtRL.
Typically, I would apply a multiplier of... Let's say 5 or 10.

- Cobra.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 03:08:32 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matthew Waddilove <m_waddilove@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Magic)
Content-Type: text/plain

Erik Jameson wrote
>
>At 09:41 AM 5/19/98 PDT, you wrote:
>
>>If a moon base was set up with enough of a biosphere to generate a
>>manasphere, Could you use this spell to get there?
>
>Just for sake of argument, let's assume that this spell that transforms
a
>person's body into a mana construct (so it is very similar to a common
>spell) can actually work. I don't think it can, but let's leave that
aside
>for now.
>
>And the answer is...
>
>It depends.
>
>The common perception/interpretation is that there is a vacuum or
absence
>of mana in space. So if you were to try this little stunt, I would
imagine
>that the spell/teleporting mage would be disrupted and the little bits
of
>mana would be scattered about the astral cosmos.
>
>Now if you were to subscribe to alternate concepts of mana, such as
>someones idea that mana is a form of solar radiation, then it might be
>possible.
>
>So it would appear highly likely that this spell could not teleport
someone
>to another planet or something.
>
>And didn't the original spell have a LOS requirement? If it did (and I
>can't recall), then that would autmatically eliminate this moon
teleport
>concept except perhaps for ritual magic (which gets around LOS, but
then
>requires a link).
>
>Nice way to sort of think sideways with the concept though.
>

Why would LOS automatically eliminate the moon teleport?
You could look at the moon through a HIGH power telescope(like the huge
one in california? that I can't remember what it's called with an
80inch? diameter that I read about in a book that I can't remember it's
name <Donk Donk Donk (hitting head on desk in an attempt to reboot
memory)>) or have I just misunderstood the LOS Rules.

-Matthew Waddilove

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 11:13:03 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Astral Magic)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980519112503.23473e72@****.fbiz.com> from "Erik
Jameson" at May 19, 98 04:11:16 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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And verily, did Erik Jameson hastily scribble thusly...
|And didn't the original spell have a LOS requirement? If it did (and I
|can't recall), then that would autmatically eliminate this moon teleport
|concept except perhaps for ritual magic (which gets around LOS, but then
|requires a link).

That depends.
Of course, you'd need a massive refracting/reflecting telescope to make it
work.....
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 06:28:46 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: DisnyShamn <DisnyShamn@***.COM>
Subject: Hi-ho, all, and Blood Magic
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First off, hi-ho, all, I've finally dropped in on this list 'cause I've
finally started running SR (well, sort of... another story)

Second, dghost@****.COM writes:

> NOTE: This is just a curiousity ... I most likely won't allow anything
> more than the last option, if that. And to answer my own question
> completely: because 1) I don't want put anything in PCs hands that isn't
> fleshed out and 2) I want to reduce the death toll in my games, not
> increase it by letting Mages reduce or eliminate drain by geeking the Sec
> Cops... (Ick, can you imagine "Knock them out so I can use them for spell
> food later ..."?). At most this would be a "Ok, I'll give you this as
> long as you don't use it" sort of thing ...

Well, here's an idea off the top o' me head; as a long-time Ars Magica player,
the Living Vis virtue (edge) comes to mind; howsabout he can use his OWN life
energy to the same end. Still makes the mage a nasty blood-type, without him
sacrificing other people. Basically, by taking extra drain (per wound level?
per box?) he can boost the Force of the spell.

Other idea, the shamanic-summoning-sacrifice thing (swiped somewhat from GURPS
Voodoo, great setting, BTW, could be fit into SR rather well); animal
sacrifice can help a summoning, but the sacrifice of a sentient being creates
bad karma that actually scares off natural spirits, resulting in automatic
failure (being of use only for blood spirits and maybe toxics).Maybe increase
Conjuring roll by 1/2 the creature's Body or Will, rounded up? (doesn't seem
right to get the same bonus for a strangling a chicken as for sacrificing a
cow, does it?)

- Disney Shaman

- Sean
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 13:10:13 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <runefo@***.uio.no>
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Organization: The University of Oslo
Subject: Re: Giving blood in 205X: common or rare?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980520101323.006ac03c@****.mhnet.fr>
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> >| In our modern world, giving blood is no big deal; as long as there's no
> >| risk of infection or you're not a haemophiliac, it's not a danger.

Not entirely true - haemophiliacs may give blood, but they are a risk
group for blood diseases so they are usually not wanted.
(Almost all severe-degree haemophiliacs has Hepatithis C, for
instance.).

> >| In
> >| Shadowrun, though, a blood sample can be used for ritual sendings, blood
> >| magic, and lots of other creative nastiness.

Very good point. I don't think it would necessarily be much of a
problem, though. I'd imagine that it's a 'colder' world, where a lot
less would be *willing* to give blood, though...

What, you want why??
For most people the risk of someone using magic against them through
a blood sample would be minimal - it's more risky walking outside or
taking a stroll in the park.

If you have powerful enemies that wouldn't mind shelling
out the cost of a ritual team and can get at that blood donation, you
have a problem. (Blood bank or no blood bank! :).

On the other hand, it's a cool idea for nasty plots. A hospital might
'hire' a serial killer to nuke people through the blood donations
of a competing hospital, whatever. And that would be just another
aspect of the times, and one more excuse not to bother giving blood.

As for artificial blood, it should be easily manufactured by then,
and more like full blood than most people get today. When you're
given blood in most hospitals, unless you're in deep trouble, you're
given blood which has been drained of most agents except red blod
cells.

Whaddoi mean easily manufactured?

Image: A clinically clean chamber. The lighting is from large UV
lamps, bathing a cold, blue light on row upon row of cloned bodies
fed nourishment through IV's, twitching from electroshocks to keep
their bodies exercised, slowly drained of blood. One of them, almost
awake despite the checmical lobotomization, looks at you, not
comprehending why...

That's the SR method. In RL they are planning to milk it from
genetically altered sheep/pigs. Or perhaps, instead of clones, they
use 'lobotomized' prisoners? Or just people snatched off the
streets...

*sniff* *BrRRrrdt* Ahhh.. YUCK!

I hate spring flu.

--
Fade

And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 22:16:04 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wildthing <twowolfe@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: E-CARD COUNTDOWN!!!!
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Ereskanti wrote:


Ad me too

Stephen Wolfe ( Twowolfe@*******.net )


>
> I've made a compilation from 5-19-98 (AM) listings).
>
> And as a reminder, I have spoken with the nice lady at FASA who told me they
> are in the hospital, trying to induce labor. So come on folks, let's get this
> ball loaded...
>
> -K
>
> (BTW- Bull, Nice try, but thanks to some help from Richard Sven, you aren't
> going to get the chance to kiss up to Mike and Sharon twice... :)
>
> Dear Mike,
>
> We here at the ShadowRN mailing list would like to extend our
> congratulations to both you and Sharon on the newest addition to the
> Mulvihill family. Those individuals listed below wish to personally extend
> their warmest wishes to the three of you.
>
> The following names are those that wished to express their best wishes to
> you and Sharon personally, but didn't wish to overburden your e-mail boxes.
>
> John Penta <johndevil@****.COM>
> Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
> Matt Breton (mbreton@**.netcom.com)
> J. Keith Henry (ereskanti@***.com) (who put this list together for
> ya'll)
> Andrew "Wraith" Duncanson <Wraith@************.com>
> Panther <qmilton@**.net>
> wyrmy <elfman@*****.net>
> Lander Williams --- lander@****.wave.ca
> John Pederson <lobo1@****.com>
> Alfredo B Alves <Dghost@****.com>
> DarkBlade --- DarkBlade@*********.com
> Fade (Rune Fostervoll) <runefo@***.uio.no>
> Shadow <NewShadow@***.com>
> Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.net>
> Mike Bobroff <airwasp@***.com>
> MC23 (mc23@**********.com)
> Mark Imbriaco <perlhacker@*********.net>
> Mike Paff <mikepaff@***.com>
> Barbie LeVile <barbie@**********.com>
> Danyel Woods 9604801@********.ac.nz
> Rob Nesius <nesius@******.com>
> Lehlan Decker <decker@****.fsu.edu>
> David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.carl.org>
> Paolo Marcucci paolo@*********.it
> Elle Holmes (Lady Jestyr) jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
> Shane Winzar (Tamino) swinzar@*****.cit.gu.edu.au
> Jeremy "Bolthy" Zimmerman <jeremy@***********.com>
> Tony Glinka <porthos@****.com>
> The Rev W Spaced Lee <spaced@******.org>
> Erik Jameson <ejameson72@***.com>
> James Ojaste <james.ojaste@**.gc.ca>
> Richard Swen <rswen@********.com>
> Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.com>
> Geoff Skellams <geoff.skellams@*********.com.au>
> Linda <baxter@******.net>
> Adam Jury <fro@***.ab.ca> (Who'se sending flowers too ;)
> "Jessica "Jett" Grota" <grotaje@*********.com>
> David "Harvester" Taylor <Harvester@**********.com>
> u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK (Spike)
> Wordman <wordman@*****.com>
> gametheory@***********.com (Thomas Berman)
> Tony Rabiola <rabiola@**.netcom.com>
> Steven "Bull" Ratkovich <chaos@*****.com>
> bxb121@***.EDU (Brett Borger)
> bxb121@***.EDU (Brett Borger)
> Steven "BlueMule" McCormick <stardust@***.net>
> Matthew Waddilove m_waddilove@*******.com
> Tobias Berghoff (Zixx) <t_berghoff@*********.netsurf.de>
> Mike Russell (Mgkelly@***.com)
> David Hinkley <dhinkley@***.org>
> NightRain (Ray Macey) <nightrain@***.brisnet.org.au>
> bigdaddy@*****.COM (BigDaddy)
> dukes@*******.net (John Dukes)
> Caroline Mallett <legion@******.net.au>
> Mark Williams <legion@*****.com.au>
> Mik Williams <hangfire2000@*****.com>
> Roger J. An <rogan@******.org>
>
> Once again, you and your new family have our best wishes.
>
> the ShadowRN mailing list
>
> That's what I've got to this point....
> -K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 07:46:46 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: DisnyShamn <DisnyShamn@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Giving blood in 205X: common or rare?
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Said roun:

> wow, a very good question. do they synthesize all the blood using a better
> grade plasma than we can produce now??? i think given how many things can
> be grown (limbs and all that crap) that hospitals would just produce blood
> in percentages according to the percentage of different blood types in the
> nation or corp they serve. just another charge to add on to your hospital
> bill!!! (and they love to do that).

Just a reminder, they wouldn't actually need different kinds of blood, as O
negative (um, right? Been some years since high school bio, you know) is the
universal donor. Just crank out kiloliters of the stuff.

(Oh, other thought; the various races use the same blood ypes, right?
human/dwarf, elf/troll transfusions are copacetic? Not needed for my game,
just curious.)

A tiny bit later, Cobra wrote:

> 1/ It's always less costly when people give their blood than when
> you have to clone it.

Idunno about this. Depends on the techniques; if they can just throw some
marrow in a vat of nutrients and let computers watch over it, it could be like
farming chia-pets. (Example: look at lab-grown insulin vs. "extracted".
granted, they'd pretty much have to kill you to take that out...)

> 2/ I don't think people bother about giving their blood, even in SR.
> Most joe citizens don't know anything about rituals, blood magic
> and other things like this.

I'd disagree here. People would know about the hazards of DNA sample from
trideo, if nothing else (and probably think the threat is even worse, as the
entertainment industry isn't exactly known for toning such things down). I,
for instance, have never had occasion to tour a bioweapons facility or discuss
the topic with a germ manufacturer, but I still know about anthrax.

> 3/ A good plot would be for an institute to use rituals on the
> custommers who gave them some blodd. Perhaps they could

Oh, come on, what honest corp would do something like THAT? ::teeheehee:: ;)

- Sean
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 08:30:40 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sommers <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Petrolia? (Re: Considering things from St. Dunkhelzahn's
In-Reply-To: <7c6b307d.356266b6@***.com>
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At 01:14 AM 5/20/98 EDT, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-05-19 16:10:21 EDT, you write:
>
><< The statement is 301 KM's west of Petrolia...big Volcanic Eruption....and
>the
> "land and mineral rites" are being given to Federated Boeing. That last
> statement led me to believe that the "land" might not exist yet, hence
we're
> doing this in the Pacific Ocean. >>
>
>K, you're being an American again <g>. How do we know its not going to be in
>the middle of the Atlantic, 301 km west of something in Europe (or Africa...
>hell, even India)
>
>

For one thing, the Pacific Rim is very geologically active (that whole Ring
of Fire thing). IIRC, neither the Atlantic nor Indian Oceans have very much
difficulty with volcanoes/earthquakes. Not saying that they can't have
some, its just much more likely in the Pacific.

And I thought for land masses, whoever plants on it first gets it. That's
what they do in Hawaii, for example, when a lava flow cools enough to
create for land.

Sommers
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 09:37:05 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Defaulting (was Summer Time)
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In a message dated 5/20/98 4:03:52 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
gurth@******.NL writes:

> > -AND- 1 die removed from the "defaulting skill".
>
> Oh? Only get the +2 per dot applies to normal skills. Physical adept
> Increased Ability dice are removed at one for each dot passed, but not
> normal skill dice.
>
Oh well, I knew I couldn't be completely right anymore. As it stands though,
this rule helps out with skill defaulting as well, reduces other potential
hazards as you go.

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 09:50:20 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Giving blood in 205X: common or rare?
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In a message dated 5/20/98 4:48:38 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM writes:

> > 1/ It's always less costly when people give their blood than when you have
> > to clone it.

NOT if you can get a person to become a "Blood Bank" on their own. What I
mean by this is the potentially abominational power of "Limb Donors". Think
of a clonal body being produced, or a person that is "brain dead" who has
decided to be a good samaritan and be an "Organ Donor". In this case, the
body is kept alive on an indefinite basis. Organs are removed as needed, and
clonal parts are simply regrown within said individual's body. Same type of
situation, as long as the body is kept in near-100% health, it can be used for
TONS of things. With the right kind of protein and nutrient bathing, the body
in question could become nothing more than a "Blood Bank", producing much
needed blood for all sorts of medical requirements.

Come on folks, let's get -really- imaginative...

> > 2/ I don't think people bother about giving their blood, even in SR. Most
> > joe citizens don't know anything about rituals, blood magic and other
> > things like this.

I agree here overall. Sure, there are the movies and the trids. But, as I
recently ran into with a UPS driver and his family. He has been teaching his
kids that "this isn't real, it's only a movie", but unfortunately they haven't
learned just yet the difference between a "News Show" and a "Movie/TV
Episode". Desensitization works wonders, even in the nightmarish sense.

Oh, and BTW, the "Festival de Muertos" that is mentioned in the Will of
Dunkelzahn has a LOT to do with how much respect for the dead and the giving
of life's value is placed upon such. Among that is "Ritual Bloodletting". So
yes, even Aztlan, "Blood Donations" are most likely a pretty common thing.

Hell, with the topic of "Essence Balance" within a body being such a BIG topic
to a magician, it would probably be imperative that good donors be found, or
clonal samples be required. Trust sometimes falls to the side in the realm of
topics when it comes to the Desire to Live after all.

> > 3/ A good plot would be for an institute to use rituals on the custommers
> > who gave them some blodd. Perhaps they could develop a way to cast a
> ritual
> > on multiple targets and influence them to buy some products.

Ah Hell, that is -really- easy. AoE Ritual Magic using Mental Manipulations
like "Mob Mood" or "Mob Mind". Create/Design specific variations on a
theme
such as "Mob Suggestion" or "Mob Dream Insinuation". Place all
samples within
the ritual that is being performed and cast away.

> The Red Cross tries to maintain a bit of identity-protection with blood
> donors now; maybe in the future they'd use a Mass Sterilize spell. Be
> sort of a pain to try a ritual only you ended up nabbing the wrong bag
> from the Red Cross (er - DocWagon) vaults. Especially if you wanted to
> screw your target over in a highly noticeable fashion.

The only problem with that is that it would work -perfectly- for what you are
suggesting. It might also destroy certain necessary, lifesaving,
characteristics of the blood.

> - Matt

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 09:52:36 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Magic)
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In a message dated 5/20/98 5:09:35 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
m_waddilove@*******.COM writes:

> Why would LOS automatically eliminate the moon teleport?
> You could look at the moon through a HIGH power telescope(like the huge
> one in california? that I can't remember what it's called with an
> 80inch? diameter that I read about in a book that I can't remember it's
> name <Donk Donk Donk (hitting head on desk in an attempt to reboot
> memory)>) or have I just misunderstood the LOS Rules.
>
No Matt, you have not misunderstood the rules for LOS. In theory, this would
work, especially when combined with SR's Optic Technology usage (such as an
optic cable running the image from the telescope to the ritual team on the
front lawn). Hell, let's get even more fun. Do a run on -something- and get
one of the -real- moon rocks.

now there is a strange idea...

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 09:57:55 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Petrolia? (Re: Considering things from St. Dunkhelzahn's
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In a message dated 5/20/98 7:31:16 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU writes:

> For one thing, the Pacific Rim is very geologically active (that whole Ring
> of Fire thing). IIRC, neither the Atlantic nor Indian Oceans have very much
> difficulty with volcanoes/earthquakes. Not saying that they can't have
> some, its just much more likely in the Pacific.
>
I don't think you should ever visit the nice, balmy, North Atlantic there guy.
Volcanic activity there is a commonplace thing in some areas....

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 16:12:07 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Giving blood in 205X: common or rare?
In-Reply-To: <270fe702.3562df9d@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>> > 1/ It's always less costly when people give their blood than when you
have
>> > to clone it.
>
>NOT if you can get a person to become a "Blood Bank" on their own. What I
>mean by this is the potentially abominational power of "Limb Donors". Think
>of a clonal body being produced, or a person that is "brain dead" who has
>decided to be a good samaritan and be an "Organ Donor". In this case, the
>body is kept alive on an indefinite basis. Organs are removed as needed, and
>clonal parts are simply regrown within said individual's body. Same type of
>situation, as long as the body is kept in near-100% health, it can be used
for
>TONS of things. With the right kind of protein and nutrient bathing, the body
>in question could become nothing more than a "Blood Bank", producing much
>needed blood for all sorts of medical requirements.
>
>Come on folks, let's get -really- imaginative...

But the corp will have to give him nutriments, to give him a *home* and to
keep the secret hidden, which requires big costs (security, well paid
executives ...). It seems much more easier to give some bread to a squatter
or to ask for people to give it for free. However, your soultion seems good
for having the rarest supplies.

>> > 3/ A good plot would be for an institute to use rituals on the
custommers
>> > who gave them some blodd. Perhaps they could develop a way to cast a
>> ritual
>> > on multiple targets and influence them to buy some products.
>
>Ah Hell, that is -really- easy. AoE Ritual Magic using Mental Manipulations
>like "Mob Mood" or "Mob Mind". Create/Design specific variations
on a theme
>such as "Mob Suggestion" or "Mob Dream Insinuation". Place all
samples
within
>the ritual that is being performed and cast away.

I thought about something like this but I'm not sure you can already use
multiple samples in a ritual... Perhaps it would require some magical
research from the corp.

- Cobra.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 16:14:00 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Astral Magic)
In-Reply-To: <b557d701.3562e025@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>> Why would LOS automatically eliminate the moon teleport?
>> You could look at the moon through a HIGH power telescope(like the huge
>> one in california? that I can't remember what it's called with an
>> 80inch? diameter that I read about in a book that I can't remember it's
>> name <Donk Donk Donk (hitting head on desk in an attempt to reboot
>> memory)>) or have I just misunderstood the LOS Rules.
>>
>No Matt, you have not misunderstood the rules for LOS. In theory, this would
>work, especially when combined with SR's Optic Technology usage (such as an
>optic cable running the image from the telescope to the ritual team on the
>front lawn). Hell, let's get even more fun. Do a run on -something- and get
>one of the -real- moon rocks.

And build a base without having to send an expedition... :)
Practically, there would be the problem of leaving atmosphere...

- Cobra.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:16:11 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Petrolias on the map
In-Reply-To: <002101bd8374$4b3436c0$1ea0cb84@*********.rsvs.ulaval.ca> from
"Philippe Garneau" at May 19, 98 06:20:13 pm
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<SNIP>
> >> - Petrolia, a coastal town in North California (certainly the same as the
> >> one you mentioned), IMHO, the most probable candidate, since there's the
> >> Pacific to the West, and it's a geologically active zone;
> >>
<SNIP>
>
> A thing that occured to me about after my posts: won't something 301km west
> from the California coast be in international waters? Can someone own
> subaquatic real estate in the international waters? :-)
>

You are going to deny a Great Dragon, and the Draco Foundation?
I'm thinking all he had to do was tell no one, and be sitting on it
when it appeared. I'm not knowledgable about todays laws in the area
but I'm guessing by 2050 with megacorps etc, its very plausible.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:24:55 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sommers <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Petrolia? (Re: Considering things from St. Dunkhelzahn's
In-Reply-To: <1e8e1e02.3562e164@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 09:57 AM 5/20/98 EDT, you wrote:
>In a message dated 5/20/98 7:31:16 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
>sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU writes:
>
>> For one thing, the Pacific Rim is very geologically active (that whole Ring
>> of Fire thing). IIRC, neither the Atlantic nor Indian Oceans have very
much
>> difficulty with volcanoes/earthquakes. Not saying that they can't have
>> some, its just much more likely in the Pacific.
>>
>I don't think you should ever visit the nice, balmy, North Atlantic there
guy.
>Volcanic activity there is a commonplace thing in some areas....
>
>-K
>
That's true. I forgot about Iceland, for example, being created out of some
lava flows. But overall is there nearly as much activity there as in the
Pacific? Its been about 10-12 years since I had a lot of geography, so I'm
trying to remember. I know that one of the plates runs through the
Atlantic, but that it was a more stable meeting than the Pacific one.

Sommers
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:16:58 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: BigDaddy <bigdaddy@*****.COM>
Organization: Florida Network Technolgogies, Inc.
Subject: Re: Giving blood in 205X: common or rare?
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Danyel N Woods wrote:

> In our modern world, giving blood is no big deal; as long as there's no
> risk of infection or you're not a haemophiliac, it's not a danger. In
> Shadowrun, though, a blood sample can be used for ritual sendings, blood
> magic, and lots of other creative nastiness. Given this, would people
> would actually give blood (whether to a corporate or public
> health-provider)? What would it say about those people?

I believe under certain cicrcumstances most people would want blood and
tissue donated.

1. Docwagon contracts= Hell your gonna need all the backups and
contingencies if your ever in a world of trouble.
2. Hospitals would probably have a place to donate. Most likely locked up
tighter than than a vault guarded by rigged behemoths(sorry had to put that
one in there hehehe).

Napalm Sticks to Kidz,
BigDaddy
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:28:59 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: More thoughts about clones and magic
In-Reply-To: <199805200215.CAA31658@****.ibm.net> from "Tim Kerby" at May
19,
98 10:15:12 pm
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>
> Last night I posted an idea about a teleport spell using
> clones, and that lead me to think about something else. You
> can use DNA like a blood sample, skin, or hair as a ritual
> link. Now what if the target of the ritual has a clone? Since
> this clone's DNA is an exact replica of the target's, what
> happens to the ritual spell? Does it affect the target, the
> clone, or both simultaneously?
>
> Let's say it's the latter (which is the result I am leaning
> toward); consider this. Let's say a mage wants to take out a
> large group of people in one fell swoop (like a rioting mob,
> or an enemy army). Insert a group of clones (all alike) into
> the mob at spaced intervals. The mage then casts a ritual into
> the target; one of the clones, or the original. The spell will
> ground out through all the clones. If an area effect physical
> spell was cast, a very large area could be covered. The clones
> would probably get wasted, but so would a lot of people in the
> target area.
> What do you think? Feasible, whacked-out, or just plain silly?
>
Ouch. An interesting idea, and depending on how you use/define
clones I could see it being plausible. The real question is, how
does a clone connect to the original "astrally". In my game I'd
never allow it, since clones aren't pass the harvesting organ
stages.

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:34:20 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Blood Magic (Your gonna hate this one ...[well maybe :) ])
In-Reply-To: <19980520.015308.11990.1.dghost@****.com> from "Alfredo B
Alves"
at May 20, 98 01:53:07 am
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>
> Don't worry, I don't wanna know how to make PC Blood Mages ... well, not
> exactly, anyway... Could you make a ex-Blood mage (Just a RP thing.
> Maybe a few special Edges/flaws [Bad karma comes to mind] no actual Blood
> Magic) that defected from Aztlan or maybe somewhere else like Amazonia
> (Is this the right one?)? Or is the only PC Blood magic-related
> character option available a burned out mage? I know even the last isn't
> allowed per FASA, but I was wondering what you guys had to say on the
> matter. What would you allow among PCs and why?
>
The only thing FASA has said, is that no PC who deal with sacrificial
magic can be a PC. Depending on your campaign, I would allow it within
limits. Particulary if he had a good background and characters flaws.
One slight problem, from what I understand blood magic isn't taught
to everyone by a long shot. I'm sure the Azzies do alot of screening before
you ever go beyond the very basics. So I'd say he'd be hunted fairly
severely. :) Excellent RP opportunities.


--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:27:13 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: BigDaddy <bigdaddy@*****.COM>
Organization: Florida Network Technolgogies, Inc.
Subject: Re: Blood Magic (Your gonna hate this one ...[well maybe :) ])
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Alfredo B Alves wrote:
<snip>

> Aztlan or maybe somewhere else like Amazonia
> (Is this the right one?)? Or is the only PC Blood magic-related
> character option available a burned out mage? I know even the last isn't
> allowed per FASA, but I wasD wondering what you guys had to say on the
> matter. What would you allow among PCs and why?
>
>

Hmm a most interesting point is raised here. Would a GM allow the runners
to just knock some guard out and bring him along to help drain. Well I for
one would allow it. But!!!!!!! (important but here!), if they were to be say
from aztlan or amazonia(i believe they do it down there) the pc would not
gain all the benifits from the drain reduction, perhaps cut it in half, and
only for a select few spells. Now before the PC throws themselves into
coniption fits over this look at it this way.

1. The PC was among other blood mages and used to functioning with them and
those associated with blood rituals. Now he's out on his own with runners,
who more than likely fear Aztlan( I do!) and they have to worry about those
that see the blood magic going on AND if said PC can still do the blood
rituals( still fuzzy on some of the details my Aztlan sourcebook is buried
somewhere :( ) AND if they can get out alive.

2. Aztlan will never, ever, ever, ever, ever (is that enough evers?) allow
one of their own to escape into the other lands (ie UCAS,CF, god help us in
CAS ever gets a hold of one!) unscathed. If that runner were to be allowed to
escape, he would be harried, hounded, harassed, and generally, sought after
by ever resource the Azzies got.

Those pts in mind the PC would be resricted to spells, have to be soooo
careful of who, what, where,when, and why he casts them (cause in the shadows
you don't know who's watching!). This runner would probably suffer from a
paranoia flaw (Azzies are comin' Azzies are comin'!). Anything i missed?

Napalm Sticks to Kidz,
BigDaddy
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:40:15 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: BigDaddy <bigdaddy@*****.COM>
Organization: Florida Network Technolgogies, Inc.
Subject: Re: Giving blood in 205X: common or rare?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Ereskanti wrote:

>
>
> NOT if you can get a person to become a "Blood Bank" on their own. What I
> mean by this is the potentially abominational power of "Limb Donors".
Think
> of a clonal body being produced, or a person that is "brain dead" who has
> decided to be a good samaritan and be an "Organ Donor". In this case, the
> body is kept alive on an indefinite basis. Organs are removed as needed, and
> clonal parts are simply regrown within said individual's body. Same type of
> situation, as long as the body is kept in near-100% health, it can be used for
> TONS of things. With the right kind of protein and nutrient bathing, the body
> in question could become nothing more than a "Blood Bank", producing much
> needed blood for all sorts of medical requirements.
>

now just outta curiosity. is it easier to clone a human than lets say a troll?
well if it isnt picture this:

a troll is roughly half agian as big and as heavy as a human. a blood "donor",
bank, cloner, whatever could reap tremendous amounts of proift by cloning the
larger metahumas, than humans, corps are always into making money. The bigger the
better the cheaper, they always say!


Napalm Sticks to Kidz,
BigDaddy
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:42:25 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: BigDaddy <bigdaddy@*****.COM>
Organization: Florida Network Technolgogies, Inc.
Subject: Re: Giving blood in 205X: common or rare?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> I thought about something like this but I'm not sure you can already use
> multiple samples in a ritual... Perhaps it would require some magical
> research from the corp.
>

isnt it true that if a blood sample, or tissue sample is to be used in a ritual,
then to keep it fresh it needs to be "infused" with a certain amount of mana or
magic? I read that in Burning Bright, just curious to know if it always works like
that.

Napalm Sticks to Kidz,
BigDaddy
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 17:08:33 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Giving blood in 205X: common or rare?
In-Reply-To: <3562EBD0.CAC94EC4@*****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>> I thought about something like this but I'm not sure you can already use
>> multiple samples in a ritual... Perhaps it would require some magical
>> research from the corp.
>>
>
>isnt it true that if a blood sample, or tissue sample is to be used in a
ritual,
>then to keep it fresh it needs to be "infused" with a certain amount of
mana or
>magic? I read that in Burning Bright, just curious to know if it always
works like
>that.

When recovering samples, you need to practice a little ritual (a sorcery
test) to keep it useable for some time (I remember it as days but I'm not
sure). If you want to keep it for some time, you have to cast a preserve
spell on it and to maintain it (which requires karma).

- Cobra.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 17:19:15 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: More thoughts about clones and magic
In-Reply-To: <199805201428.AA94446@*****.scri.fsu.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> Last night I posted an idea about a teleport spell using
> clones, and that lead me to think about something else. You
> can use DNA like a blood sample, skin, or hair as a ritual
> link. Now what if the target of the ritual has a clone? Since
> this clone's DNA is an exact replica of the target's, what
> happens to the ritual spell? Does it affect the target, the
> clone, or both simultaneously?

IMO, DNA is distinct from aura. And a spell uses aura synchronization to
get its effect done. So, the target is the one from which you took the sample.
Please remember that a clone is only a subject with the DNA as you. I don't
think DNA is the only thing that makes us who we are...

> Let's say it's the latter (which is the result I am leaning
> toward); consider this. Let's say a mage wants to take out a
> large group of people in one fell swoop (like a rioting mob,
> or an enemy army). Insert a group of clones (all alike) into
> the mob at spaced intervals. The mage then casts a ritual into
> the target; one of the clones, or the original. The spell will
> ground out through all the clones. If an area effect physical
> spell was cast, a very large area could be covered. The clones
> would probably get wasted, but so would a lot of people in the
> target area.
> What do you think? Feasible, whacked-out, or just plain silly?

Nope IMO (see above). Anyway, you have more easier way to handle that :
1/ Cast a big spell. You increase the radius by 2 meters for each die. You
can also use fetish foci to increase the pool (it's to you if it also
increases the range). If you cast it during a ritual, you will add the
different pools together.
2/ If you allow a ritual to be targeted at many targets by using multiple
samples (this isn't SR canon and I would use multiple targets rule as a
GM), you could have the same kind of result.

- Cobra.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 11:27:19 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx3 <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Petrolia? (Re: Considering things from St. Dunkhelzahn's
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 98-05-20 04:49:07 EDT, you write:

<< > K, you're being an American again <g>. How do we know its not going
to
be in
> the middle of the Atlantic, 301 km west of something in Europe (or
Africa...
> hell, even India)

Because only Americans can think of a name like "Petrolia" for a city? ;)
>>

Yeah, but with American companiy's influence on the third world (West Africa,
for example), an enclave could easily be named Petrolia.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 08:23:54 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Petrolia? (Re: Considering things from St. Dunkhelzahn's
MIME-Version: 1.0
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----------
> From: Nexx3 <Nexx3@***.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Petrolia? (Re: Considering things from St. Dunkhelzahn's
> Date: Tuesday, May 19, 1998 10:14 PM
>
> In a message dated 98-05-19 16:10:21 EDT, you write:
>
> << The statement is 301 KM's west of Petrolia...big Volcanic
Eruption....and
> the
> "land and mineral rites" are being given to Federated Boeing. That last
> statement led me to believe that the "land" might not exist yet, hence
we're
> doing this in the Pacific Ocean. >>
>
> K, you're being an American again <g>. How do we know its not going to
be in
> the middle of the Atlantic, 301 km west of something in Europe (or
Africa...
> hell, even India)

I think we made the assumption based on the fact we couldn't find a
Petrolia in Europe or Africa... hell, even India. Granted, all I used was
Yahoo! so it's quite possible I'm just a twat with poor research skills.
The California one seemed likely because it was sorta coastal, too. =)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 08:25:34 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Petrolia? (Re: Considering things from St. Dunkhelzahn's
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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----------
> From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Petrolia? (Re: Considering things from St. Dunkhelzahn's
> Date: Wednesday, May 20, 1998 2:49 AM
>
> Nexx3 said on 1:14/20 May 98...
>
> > K, you're being an American again <g>. How do we know its not going to
be in
> > the middle of the Atlantic, 301 km west of something in Europe (or
Africa...
> > hell, even India)
>
> Because only Americans can think of a name like "Petrolia" for a city? ;)
>

I think I'd be insulted if it weren't true.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:38:39 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sheldon Rose <scrose@****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Re: Giving blood in 205X: common or rare?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Danyel N Woods wrote:
>
> Having submitted to the Red Cross and their needles last Thursday for
> the public good (and it didn't hurt a bit!), I was paging through Aztlan
> and met the Blood Magic section, which got me thinking.
>
> In our modern world, giving blood is no big deal; as long as there's no
> risk of infection or you're not a haemophiliac, it's not a danger. In
> Shadowrun, though, a blood sample can be used for ritual sendings, blood
> magic, and lots of other creative nastiness. Given this, would people
> would actually give blood (whether to a corporate or public
> health-provider)? What would it say about those people? What sort of
> psychological/sociological issues would this produce - e.g., would it
> become a litmus test, like abortion/affirmative action/gun-control?

IMO it would for the reasons that you have stated. Then again the corp
wage slaves might even be required to take part in the blood drive.
While the above can and would be done with some portion of the donation
what better way to make sure the employees are loyal. Synth/cloned
plasma will put the stick for money shops out of business. If you don't
know what those are just ask any broke student how to make a couple of
extra bucks.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 11:47:07 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Real Life catching up with Shadowrun?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Once upon a time, BigDaddy wrote;

>Actually if you want a good place to learn about new and upcoming stuff
>designed by corps. Goto the local book store Popular mechanics and
>popular science always have good inventions rolling out the door
>everymonth. portable data pad, laser guided shuttles, laser weapons,
>etc. etc. etc.

PM and PS are good sources for what _could_ happen but not what
will. I remember reading those as a little kid twenty years ago. A good
portion of those articles have yet to come to pass.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

"CYNIC, n. A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are,
not as they ought to be."
-The Devil's Dictionary, Ambrose Bierce

I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 08:49:13 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Demosthenes Three <demosthenes_3@*****.COM>
Subject: Ultra Boy in Shadowrun
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

If any of you read DC Comics' Legion of Superheroes, then you already
know what this is about.
Basically, Ultra Boy has all the powers of Superman, but he is limited
to only using one of them at a time.

For a Shadowrun twist to the idea, what about a street samurai that
has a TON of cyberware implanted in him, with the limitation that he
can only access one system?

Let's say that Corp X has developed a cross-redundant system of
cyberware. Let's call it CyberSuite7.
Basically they have managed to take Wired Reflexes 3, Muscle
Replacement 4, a Vehicle Control Rig 3, and maybe some headware, and
senseware gear, and wire the systems together into one compact,
semi-essence friendly package.
However the method that allowed this gear to all fit together,
(without cybermancy) only allows the user to power one system at a time.
If you use Wired 3, then you won't be able to access your Headware
Memory, or Skillwires, etc.

Hmmm ... tweaking this as I go, maybe the Muscle Replacement doesn't
really make sense as part of a suite. But IMO Wired Reflexes,
Skillwires, Headware Memory, and other nervous system mods could
theoretically be combined to use the same wiring, with the "One at a
Time" restriction.

Other twists - You could allow a user to access multiple systems with
a willpower roll, and then add in some overstress rules, ala, Rigger
2. Icky - I'd hate to see what happens when your wired reflexes
overheat! :)

This idea works rather well for physical adepts as well.

Demosthenes 3
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 11:57:09 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx3 <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Giving blood in 205X: common or rare?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 98-05-20 11:04:43 EDT, you write:

<< When recovering samples, you need to practice a little ritual (a sorcery
test) to keep it useable for some time (I remember it as days but I'm not
sure). If you want to keep it for some time, you have to cast a preserve
spell on it and to maintain it (which requires karma). >>

If its given willingly and the ritual is preformed, it lasts practically
forever.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:01:30 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Prometheus Unbound (was Re: Astral Magic)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Once upon a time, Nexx3 wrote;

>Actually, I was doing some thinking. I think space fold could be made
>instantaneous, and wouldn't have that big of a cost (aside from the ritual
>elements... at least, not as far as a megacorp is concerned.

<snip>

>Did that make any sense whatsoever?

You are working from a basis the spacial folds are possible for
Shadowrun's magic. Magic is wonderful and all but in Shadowrun it is not
a tool to do everything. It has it's own limitations like everything else.
In Earthdawn the rank 15 Lightbearer talent Astral Shift (the
highest of high in an age of high magic) works by shifting the character
completely over to the astral plane and it still has a lot of limitations
on its use. That ability is the highest mortal (in this use means born of
Earth) can reach and the 6th world's mana level a long time to reach
Earthdawn's level.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:07:34 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx3 <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Prometheus Unbound (was Re: Astral Magic)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 98-05-20 12:03:38 EDT, you write:

<< You are working from a basis the spacial folds are possible for
Shadowrun's magic. Magic is wonderful and all but in Shadowrun it is not
a tool to do everything. It has it's own limitations like everything else. >>

True, it has limitations, but given the different paradigm (oops, there's the
p word) that Sixth Worlders operate under, it has more possibilities to them
than it would to a Fourth Worlder. After all, when did the concept of space
fold really get its theoretical basing? Mid-twentieth century, most likely.
Without the idea of how to do something, how could one even attempt it?

Nexx
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:08:05 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Prometheus Unbound (long)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Once upon a time, Nexx3 wrote;

>Hey, something mostly unrelated, but interesting nonetheless... would Wired
>Reflexes increase your initiative for the purposes of casting spells? After
>all, you can't really channel the mana along the wires like you can along the
>neural pathways, so they wouldn't be sped up (the magic loss is taken care
>of, but there is still the matter of speed). And what good is enhanced
>articulation when trying to cast a spell? It raises your initiative a bit
>(one point), but you can't pull the energy from astral space any faster.
>This goes for a lot of things (encephalons, type O bioware, boosted reflexes,
>etc.)
>Any thoughts?

Yes they work. All those methods increase not just your physical
response time but your perception of time as well. Casting magic does not
have a time requirement just an action requirement. Channeling mana is
not a time processed event or more to the point that it would travel fast
enough that it would still flow at such a speed that even the fastest
augmentation drags in comparison.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:13:22 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Hi-ho, all, and Blood Magic
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Once upon a time, DisnyShamn wrote;

>Well, here's an idea off the top o' me head; as a long-time Ars Magica player,
>the Living Vis virtue (edge) comes to mind; howsabout he can use his OWN life
>energy to the same end. Still makes the mage a nasty blood-type, without him
>sacrificing other people. Basically, by taking extra drain (per wound level?
>per box?) he can boost the Force of the spell.

That reminds me of when Dowd once suggested (not official) using
Essense to power magic when in a vacuum or other magic dead places. Nasty
idea that.

>- Disney Shaman

That's sick.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:26:46 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Magic (Your gonna hate this one ...[well maybe :) ])
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Once upon a time, Alfredo B Alves wrote;

>Or is the only PC Blood magic-related character option available a
>burned out mage?

??? Any one can overcast a spell so what do you mean by that?

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 11:25:20 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Magic (Your gonna hate this one ...[well maybe :) ])

On Wed, 20 May 1998 10:34:20 -0500 Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
writes:
>> Don't worry, I don't wanna know how to make PC Blood Mages ... well,
not
>> exactly, anyway... Could you make a ex-Blood mage (Just a RP thing.
>> Maybe a few special Edges/flaws [Bad karma comes to mind] no actual
Blood
>> Magic) that defected from Aztlan or maybe somewhere else like Amazonia
>> (Is this the right one?)? Or is the only PC Blood magic-related
>> character option available a burned out mage? I know even the last
isn't
>> allowed per FASA, but I was wondering what you guys had to say on the
>> matter. What would you allow among PCs and why?

>The only thing FASA has said, is that no PC who deal with sacrificial
>magic can be a PC. Depending on your campaign, I would allow it within
>limits. Particulary if he had a good background and characters flaws.
>One slight problem, from what I understand blood magic isn't taught
>to everyone by a long shot. I'm sure the Azzies do alot of screening
before
>you ever go beyond the very basics. So I'd say he'd be hunted fairly
>severely. :) Excellent RP opportunities.
>
>
>--
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
<SNIP Sig>

YupYup. I forgot about the screening part, but, even the most ardent
followers of evi--err Aztlan/Aztechnology can become disillusioned. I
was thinking this would be a great place for a Hunted 6 flaw or if you
allow more than 6 points of flaws (come on, somepeople are REALLY fooked
up ;), A Hunted 4 and Bad Karma. Distinctive Style could also be
appropriate (Runic Scars)...
As for Edges, this would be a good reason to give a mage (burned-out or
not) Toughness, High Pain Tolerance, or maybe even Quick Healer...

Yup. If this were allowed it be vewwy intewesting RPing ... hmmm ...
would a native Aztlaner speak english (or speak it well)? Now that he
has turned against his darklords, what would his new path be? The
elimination of all blood magic? To spread awareness of Aztlan's
activities?

I dunno ... I'm not gonna give it much thought ... Just a curiousity :)

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:47:18 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Prometheus Unbound (was Re: Astral Magic)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Once upon a time, Nexx3 wrote;

>True, it has limitations, but given the different paradigm (oops, there's the
>p word) that Sixth Worlders operate under, it has more possibilities to them
>than it would to a Fourth Worlder. After all, when did the concept of space
>fold really get its theoretical basing? Mid-twentieth century, most likely.
>Without the idea of how to do something, how could one even attempt it?

6th worlds magical beliefs originates from the 5th world beliefs of
magic. Scientific theory does not affect this. And the old ways are still
the foundation of current magic research for the Hermetics still seeking
to understand this new world. Shamans general go along with how their
totem guides them. Magic is truly a Tradition and you cannot escape from
that.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:52:11 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Magic (Your gonna hate this one ...[well maybe :) ])
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Once upon a time, Alfredo B Alves wrote;

>YupYup. I forgot about the screening part, but, even the most ardent
>followers of evi--err Aztlan/Aztechnology can become disillusioned. I
>was thinking this would be a great place for a Hunted 6 flaw or if you
>allow more than 6 points of flaws (come on, somepeople are REALLY fooked
>up ;), A Hunted 4 and Bad Karma. Distinctive Style could also be
>appropriate (Runic Scars)...

Hunted by Aztechnology and a bounty on their head courtesy of
Dunkelzahn. Very short lifespan of such a character. Also very disruptive
to the other players.
Welcome to week five of the campaign, "Aztech and bounty hunters
again!?!"

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 11:36:23 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: T-Shirts
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>Here's my thoughts on this whole mess :]
>
>1) Names seem to be a must, and I agree... Call me egotistical, but I
>WANT to see my handle and e-mail on the back :]
>
>2) KISS applies to all things, including this :] SImple design on the
>front, list of names on the back... A dark color for the shirt (Blue
or
>black :)). We're good to go :]
>


Seconded. And no South Park. Stupid show, will make the shirt look
dated in short order.

Tony Rabiola rabiola@**.netcom.com
Fourth and Sixth World Adept
Still working on the Fifth...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 11:08:48 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Ultra Boy in Shadowrun
In-Reply-To: <199805201551.JAA09105@******.carl.org> from "Demosthenes
Three"
at May 20, 98 08:49:13 am
Content-Type: text

Demosthenes Three wrote:
/
/ If any of you read DC Comics' Legion of Superheroes, then you already
/ know what this is about.
/ Basically, Ultra Boy has all the powers of Superman, but he is limited
/ to only using one of them at a time.
/
/ For a Shadowrun twist to the idea, what about a street samurai that
/ has a TON of cyberware implanted in him, with the limitation that he
/ can only access one system?
/
/ Let's say that Corp X has developed a cross-redundant system of
/ cyberware. Let's call it CyberSuite7.
/ Basically they have managed to take Wired Reflexes 3, Muscle
/ Replacement 4, a Vehicle Control Rig 3, and maybe some headware, and
/ senseware gear, and wire the systems together into one compact,
/ semi-essence friendly package.
/ However the method that allowed this gear to all fit together,
/ (without cybermancy) only allows the user to power one system at a time.
/ If you use Wired 3, then you won't be able to access your Headware
/ Memory, or Skillwires, etc.

While it would work well for a superhero game (in fact, I'll try it out
on my next Champion's character) I don't think it would go over well in
actual application in Shadowrun, at least not in my group.

In SR a Street Samurai is a Street Samurai, and a Rigger is a Rigger,
and so on. When it comes to combat the guy with Wired 3, combat
skills, and the guns is the one everyone relies on. When it comes to
driving the get-away car the guy with the VCR is in charge. If you
start allowing characters to stuff themselves full of cyberware and
abilities, you take away the need for teamwork. In combat the
character activates his wired reflexes and goes to town. Then if he
needs to fly the helicopter he turns on his VCR. Later on he needs to
surf the matrix so he switches to his implanted cyberdeck. He doesn't
*need* anyone else. And it won't take long before everyone starts
envying him (I've seen this happen before in a DC game gone bad).

If you've only got one player than it could work out fine. But if
you're GMing a group I wouldn't recommend allowing this option.

Just my two cents :)

-David
--
"If I told you, then I'd have to pull a Shadowrun against you. Sorry."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:09:27 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wraith <wraith@************.COM>
Subject: Re: Giving blood in 205X: common or rare?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

-----Original Message-----
From: Nexx3 <Nexx3@***.COM>


>In a message dated 98-05-20 11:04:43 EDT, you write:
>
><< When recovering samples, you need to practice a little ritual (a sorcery
> test) to keep it useable for some time (I remember it as days but I'm not
> sure). If you want to keep it for some time, you have to cast a preserve
> spell on it and to maintain it (which requires karma). >>
>
>If its given willingly and the ritual is preformed, it lasts practically
>forever.
>

But how likely is it that the hospital would actually do the ritual? It
would serve them no purpose (unless they're up to something :). I could see
a corp perhaps doing it, on some of the higher ups in the corporate world to
prevent defections (One more thing for the runners to extract). A hospital
wouldn't, and so the blood would be useless as anything but blood
replacement. IMHO of course :)

Wraith
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 13:11:29 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Blood Magic (Your gonna hate this one ...[well maybe :) ])
In-Reply-To: <19980520.112600.11990.2.dghost@****.com> from "Alfredo B
Alves"
at May 20, 98 11:25:20 am
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>
<SNIP>
> YupYup. I forgot about the screening part, but, even the most ardent
> followers of evi--err Aztlan/Aztechnology can become disillusioned. I
> was thinking this would be a great place for a Hunted 6 flaw or if you
> allow more than 6 points of flaws (come on, somepeople are REALLY fooked
> up ;), A Hunted 4 and Bad Karma. Distinctive Style could also be
> appropriate (Runic Scars)...
> As for Edges, this would be a good reason to give a mage (burned-out or
> not) Toughness, High Pain Tolerance, or maybe even Quick Healer...
>
> Yup. If this were allowed it be vewwy intewesting RPing ... hmmm ...
> would a native Aztlaner speak english (or speak it well)? Now that he
> has turned against his darklords, what would his new path be? The
> elimination of all blood magic? To spread awareness of Aztlan's
> activities?
>
> I dunno ... I'm not gonna give it much thought ... Just a curiousity :)
>
Actually I'm writing a semi-epic campaign at the moment, that takes the
runners from CalFree, into the Tir, down into Aztlan, and through a third
as yet undetermined place. (Perhaps the carribean). The reformed Blood Mage
idea might work perfect for an NPC I had in mine. :) Thanks for the idea.
Most likely he'd have some skill in English or Cityspeak, and I'd
say he would want to stamp out all Blood Magic, or hide in obscurity.
Works for me. :)

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:14:44 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matthew Waddilove <m_waddilove@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Magic)
Content-Type: text/plain

Ereskanti wrote
>
>In a message dated 5/20/98 5:09:35 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
>m_waddilove@*******.COM writes:
>
>> Why would LOS automatically eliminate the moon teleport?
>> You could look at the moon through a HIGH power telescope(like the
huge
>> one in california? that I can't remember what it's called with an
>> 80inch? diameter that I read about in a book that I can't remember
it's
>> name <Donk Donk Donk (hitting head on desk in an attempt to reboot
>> memory)>) or have I just misunderstood the LOS Rules.
>>
>No Matt, you have not misunderstood the rules for LOS. In theory, this
would
>work, especially when combined with SR's Optic Technology usage (such
as an
>optic cable running the image from the telescope to the ritual team on
the
>front lawn). Hell, let's get even more fun. Do a run on -something-
and get
>one of the -real- moon rocks.
>
>now there is a strange idea...
>

and for another one a LOS detection spell that makes your perceptions
appear to be from the target point cast, through a telescope. Talk
about revolutionise astronomy.

That is of course if your brain doesn't get zapped by casting a spell
with a target point outside the manasphere.

Do people think/know if that would be the case i.e. if the caster is
standing in an area of normal magic and casts a spell into an area of
abnormal magic (eg space) would the caster be effected as if they are
standing in the area of abnormal magic?

-Matthew Waddilove



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:26:29 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sheldon Rose <scrose@****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Re: Ultra Boy in Shadowrun
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

David Buehrer wrote:

> While it would work well for a superhero game (in fact, I'll try it out
> on my next Champion's character) I don't think it would go over well in
> actual application in Shadowrun, at least not in my group.

hehehe I came up with the same idea. I love the superhero gerne almost
as much as the world of darkness and Shawdowrun. When I want to be
"Evil" nothing like playing (the Sabbat) a ruthless undead blood sucker.
But the same can be said for being a hero in the right (Champions,
Marvel heros) gerne. I play in wide range of games and gernes for this
reason. IMO it is rather silly to try and make a gaming system support
something it was not designed for.

<snip>
> If you've only got one player than it could work out fine. But if
> you're GMing a group I wouldn't recommend allowing this option.

This I agree with as I have done these types of runs and games. I don't
see a need for if you have more than a group of three people one of them
being the GM...
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:37:16 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Ultra Boy in Shadowrun

On Wed, 20 May 1998 08:49:13 -0700 Demosthenes Three
<demosthenes_3@*****.COM> writes:
>If any of you read DC Comics' Legion of Superheroes, then you already
>know what this is about.
>Basically, Ultra Boy has all the powers of Superman, but he is limited
>to only using one of them at a time.

uh oh ... ;)

>For a Shadowrun twist to the idea, what about a street samurai that
>has a TON of cyberware implanted in him, with the limitation that he
>can only access one system?

oh ... phew ;)

>Let's say that Corp X has developed a cross-redundant system of
>cyberware. Let's call it CyberSuite7.
>Basically they have managed to take Wired Reflexes 3, Muscle
>Replacement 4, a Vehicle Control Rig 3, and maybe some headware, and
>senseware gear, and wire the systems together into one compact,
>semi-essence friendly package.
>However the method that allowed this gear to all fit together,
>(without cybermancy) only allows the user to power one system at a time.
>If you use Wired 3, then you won't be able to access your Headware
>Memory, or Skillwires, etc.
>
>Hmmm ... tweaking this as I go, maybe the Muscle Replacement doesn't
>really make sense as part of a suite. But IMO Wired Reflexes,
>Skillwires, Headware Memory, and other nervous system mods could
>theoretically be combined to use the same wiring, with the "One at a
>Time" restriction.

hmmm.... maybe ... BUT, you can't use VCR and wired reflexes at the same
time anyway so there's limitation there ... Headware memory, skillwires,
and wired reflexes would share to many systems in common (IMO) so you
couldn't really stack them like that to save on essence ... The only sys
they have in common (again, IMO) would be the power supply and that
wouldn't amount to much savings anywhere ... Where this idea might shine
is with cybereyes, cyberears, and cyberlimbs ... Examples:

Cybereye:
Has Thermo, Lowlight Vision, and Flare Comp but the implementation is
such that one interferes with the rest so, the user only uses one at a
time.

Cyberear:
Has Damper and Spatial Recognizer but has to turn off the Damper before
the Spatial Recognizer can be used.

Cyberarm:
Perhaps 2 or more devices could share one DNI link?

>Other twists - You could allow a user to access multiple systems with
>a willpower roll, and then add in some overstress rules, ala, Rigger
>2. Icky - I'd hate to see what happens when your wired reflexes
>overheat! :)

Suddenly your speed ain't so hot anymore? *Ducks*

>This idea works rather well for physical adepts as well.
>
>Demosthenes 3

Ooooo...I like it... Adept abilities purchased as exclusive ... I'd treat
this as a standard Geas...

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:23:08 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: MysticPunk

Hmmmm... I was thinking of a new campaign setting (I'd hafta get the ED
books for this ...) set far in the future where the mana level of the 6th
world is in full swing and the world (Whether they know it or not) is
preparing for the coming of Horrors/The Enemy (Take your pick but don't
argue about it here, please :)... This would be a CyberPunk returned to
Fanatsy setting ... I prolly wouldn't flesh out the History of how it
came to be too much but Doc Wagon would be a roving Medical Guild ...
Cyberware is still available as normal (I don't really make Delta the
standard to reflect 2 or 3 millinea of technological advancement...) The
matrix is still around as normal as well. Guilds have taken the place of
corporations ...sorta ...basically the corporations would have become the
Guilds.

Space Travel would prolly be fairly common (in general, not on a
individual basis) and either magic functions in space and/or other
planets or space travel is almost only undertaken by mundanes ... For a
spaceships system I'll prolly swipe it from Star Wars. :) (minus the
deflector shields most likely :)

This is a really wierd idea, I know... but I think it might be fun to
play in this world every once in a while... whadya think?

I now return you to the regularly scheduled mailing list already in
progress :)

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 13:50:15 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx3 <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Prometheus Unbound (was Re: Astral Magic)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-05-20 12:49:28 EDT, you write:

<< 6th worlds magical beliefs originates from the 5th world beliefs of
magic. Scientific theory does not affect this. And the old ways are still
the foundation of current magic research for the Hermetics still seeking
to understand this new world. >>

Yes, but what about science fiction theory? That's still what space fold is.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:50:31 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Magic (Your gonna hate this one ...[well maybe :) ])

On Wed, 20 May 1998 12:26:46 -0400 MC23 <mc23@**********.COM> writes:
>Once upon a time, Alfredo B Alves wrote;
>>Or is the only PC Blood magic-related character option available a
>>burned out mage?
>
>??? Any one can overcast a spell so what do you mean by that?
>
<SNIP Sig>
> I am MC23

No, I mean the only way a PC could / should have any dealings with Blood
Magic is if he were a Blood Mage who has burned out ... As opposed to a
full magicain or adept who knows blood magic... (but has a sworn
affidavit with the GM saying that he won't use it ... and the GM has
material links just in case ... ;)

To clarify on the second option:
Option 1: The Mage spends the appropriate points on spells learned for
Blood Magic and says he won't use them. (dangerous....)

Option 2: The Mage doesn't spend the appropriate points on spells
learned for Blood Magic and since he won't use them. (Not as dangerous
but, the char can still summon Blood Spirits :/ [of course he WON'T,
right?])

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:01:06 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Prometheus Unbound (was Re: Astral Magic)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Once upon a time, Nexx3 wrote;

>In a message dated 98-05-20 12:49:28 EDT, you write:
>
><< 6th worlds magical beliefs originates from the 5th world beliefs of
> magic. Scientific theory does not affect this. And the old ways are still
> the foundation of current magic research for the Hermetics still seeking
> to understand this new world. >>
>
>Yes, but what about science fiction theory? That's still what space fold is.

Has no effect on magic. That's what I was saying.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:21:56 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztech Armoured Troopers
In-Reply-To: <81F7A43B468BD111AFEC00A024EA0A2B09D380@*********.polytech. ac.nz>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:46 PM 5/20/98 +1200, you wrote:

>Good points, though I was thinking more along the lines of two types of
>these units: volunteers, who can dismount whenever they choose (the true
>'Armoured Troopers'),

Okay, these folks are probably not much more than a common rigger than,
skilled in piloting a very different sort of combat vehicle. Their VCR's
might be betaware, but specially tuned for these combat walkers. Say, and
extra +2 to Initiative with the walkers, but -1d6 on all other vehicles.
They would probably have edges and flaws (if you use them) built around
this general premise of extreme vehicle specialization.

They'd probably be hell on wheels though...

While it would be possible to create this using a anthropoid drone frame, I
get the impression that you can't load that frame style with lots of
goodies. You'd probably be better off with a "walker" frame that isn't
anthropoid. These references are from R2, so you'd need that to really
design a proper version of these things, unless we can get Mike or Keith or
someone to do it for you.

Hey, what about "powered armor" that is permanently wired into the pilot?
A hybrid of a cyborg and a anthropoid drone? Another wacky thought I suppose.

>and 'permanents' ('Berserkers').
>The permanents would be death-row or multiple-lifetime prisoners who get
>their sentences commuted to life-service in a Berserker unit. And
>between the deterioration you mentioned, the developing mental problems
>(MAJOR-LEAGUE cyber-psychosis!), and the potential for violent death 'in
>the line of duty', life would be about a year at most. (<Evil thought
>strikes> But what if they use cybermancy to keep their Berserkers on
>line? <shudder>)

Now these poor bastards are more of what I think about when I recall ED-209
from RoboCop 2.

Theoretically, you could put these poor fraggers in a "rigger tank" sort of
thing (and honestly, would they need arms and legs then? VCR's are brain
implants after all, and removing arms and legs would reduce tank size...),
pump nutrients into their bodies and keep them wacked out on BTLs.

If a "Berserker" ODs on BTLs, you'd simply pull out the "tank" and
slide in
a new one, like a clip on a handgun. And considering what's being done to
the body and the brain, I doubt life-expectancy is terribly long. Which
would mean they would have to be very good at what they do. The BTLs are
probably hyped up combat sims, with a "mega-orgasm" effect when the user
"kills" someone in the simsense film. Probably would have something
similar but interactive for training purposes.

Sh*t. Frightening thought. That same sort of training would create some
seriously f*cked up and wicked serial killers. The most intense pleasure
in the world derived from taking the life or another...that's pretty damn
good motivation for plenty of folks. But as long as the military retains
total control over these sick f*cks, it's no problem right? <evil corporate
grin>

I doubt they'd use cybermancy for these fraggers though, since that process
is supposed to be expensive and somewhat inconvinient. Besides, there's
always more "volunteers" on death row, right? Much cheaper that way.

Yes, this is wacked out. No, this is not the sort of thing appropriate for
the majority of SR campaigns. But as near as I can tell, it would be
possible to do.


>You're an inspired, evil man, Erik. I gotta love it.

On occassion. My players actually fear me, in that good way of "What's he
going to challenge us with next?" Throw in a raised "Spock" eyebrow, a
Joker-like evil grin and a giggle/laugh straight out of Lovecraft novel and
you can guess why I sometimes scare the daylights out of some of my players...


>I was actually going to throw it at my (low-power) players as a hint:
>you see one of these things, you don't try to shoot it out; you *RUN
>AWAY*. Otherwise, they'd just be in the background - special
>assault-platoons attached to the Azzie heavy-infantry brigades staring
>across the border at Cal-Free and CAS.

I'll have to keep this in mind when I decide it's time to tangle with the
Azzies on their home turf. Probably won't be a while though; they are
still doing the traditional type of runs right now.

Erik J.


"Oh, the silent helicopters and the men in black fatigues? They're just my
car pool to work."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:22:28 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: More thoughts about clones and magic
In-Reply-To: <356258CF.1D@**.netcom.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 09:15 PM 5/19/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Tim Kerby wrote:
>
>> Last night I posted an idea about a teleport spell using
>> clones

Well, that depends on how you see a ritual link item. As I understand it,
DNA is merely "closer" to a person than a photograph is, for example.

But if you see the aura as an expression of DNA in some way, then your
concept might work.

I've got to agree with Matb's analysis, that ritual magic targets an aura,
not genetic material and that a clone would almost certainly have a
differnet aura (even if only slightly) than the original person.

There's also that slight problem that in the SR world, at least as far as
we know, fully viable and functional clones are still not yet possible.

It's an evil idea though. You'd probably be better off doing multiple
rituals with pieces of brick from the area you want to hammer, or maybe set
up a number of anchorings. Or hell, you could probably find people to
"wear this ring into the concert," not realizing it's a minimal power spell
lock allowing a fireball to be channeled into the crowds.

And again, if you or someone else really wants to do this clone idea, while
I don't think it would work within canon, it's your game to do with as you
chose. And if that means in your game this is possible, go for it. Just
have fun with it.

Erik J.


"Ladies & Gentleman, the newest member of the band, the one and only Spice
Boy, GRUMPY SPICE!!!" <and the crowd goes wild!!!>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:23:02 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Prometheus Unbound (long)
In-Reply-To: <270edffa.3562635b@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 01:00 AM 5/20/98 EDT, you wrote:

>Yeah, but you can't blow the top off the top of a mountain with a normal
>spell, but a ritual can handle it. You can't target someone on the other
side
>of the planet with a normal spell, but you can with a ritual spell. You
can't
>alter (or summon) an ally with a normal spell. You don't summon elementals
>with a normal spell. About the only thing that normal spells have on ritual
>spells is speed. You can whip one of those off, no problem. Rituals take
>more time.

All true, but I see most of those factors as being a product of multiple
spellcasters. In the end, I believe that magic is magic is magic,
regardless of how it's cast.

>Hey, something mostly unrelated, but interesting nonetheless... would Wired
>Reflexes increase your initiative for the purposes of casting spells? After
>all, you can't really channel the mana along the wires like you can along the
>neural pathways, so they wouldn't be sped up (the magic loss is taken care
of,
>but there is still the matter of speed). And what good is enhanced
>articulation when trying to cast a spell? It raises your initiative a bit
>(one point), but you can't pull the energy from astral space any faster.
This
>goes for a lot of things (encephalons, type O bioware, boosted reflexes,
etc.)
>Any thoughts?

I think I see where you are going with this thought. Wires speed up the
body, but not necessarily the mind, right? And magic is a mental thing.

Hmmmm...I think the answer is in how increased reaction and initiatives are
perceived, since to a great degree you are dead on right.

If wires and other enhancements only speed up the body, then you've got the
problem you posit. But if you step sideways and think that wires simply
allow more things to be done, you avoid the problem. I know, it looks like
semantics right now, but let me see if I can elaborate.

If the brain is up to the task, it is possibly able to do more actions than
the body is capable of. Wires simply improve that ratio, making the body
catch up to the mind.

Ack. I'm not sure I like this answer but it's the only thing I can think
of other than "That's just the way the game works, there is no real
answer." And I know how useful that sort of reply generally is.

Erik J.


"Oh my God, they killed Dunkelzahn! You bastards!!!"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:23:35 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Magic (Your gonna hate this one ...[well maybe :) ])
In-Reply-To: <19980520.015308.11990.1.dghost@****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 01:53 AM 5/20/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Don't worry, I don't wanna know how to make PC Blood Mages ... well, not
>exactly, anyway... Could you make a ex-Blood mage (Just a RP thing.
>Maybe a few special Edges/flaws [Bad karma comes to mind] no actual Blood
>Magic) that defected from Aztlan or maybe somewhere else like Amazonia
>(Is this the right one?)? Or is the only PC Blood magic-related
>character option available a burned out mage? I know even the last isn't
>allowed per FASA, but I was wondering what you guys had to say on the
>matter. What would you allow among PCs and why?


Well, as long as you don't allow them to actually perform blood magic
anymore, I don't see a problem with it.

This PC would be either a hermetic or a Quetzecoutal (I know I spelled that
wrong) shaman, perhaps something else with a strong nationalist bent.

I would imagine they would be an initiate, but that probably isn't
necessary. What I would do is say they had lost a certain number of magic
points, just as if they had a Focus Addiction from Awakenings (I think
there are geasa that go with that also, correct? If so, they could be
properly modified).

I'd probably give the PC a certain bonus for each Magic point lost, like
maybe 3 extra skill points per Magic point or something like that. They
might also have the rapid healing edge (gotta be able to heal yourself up
quickly if you want to do Blood Magic I would think).

On the flip side, they would have a nasty flaw or two. Bad Karma would be
an excellent choice. A 6 point enemy of the Azzies would probably also be
appropriate, since I doubt they would be happy about a Blood Mage leaving
them.

But as long as they can't/don't perform Blood Magic any longer, then I
think the idea is actually not bad at all. You could question the validity
of a Blood Mage going rogue, but I won't here.

Erik J.


"Forgive me FASA for I have sinned. It has been 6 days since I last played
Shadowrun and 15 days since I last bought a SRTCG booster pack."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:24:54 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Prometheus Unbound (was Re: Astral Magic)
In-Reply-To: <12cef66d.356259a2@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:18 AM 5/20/98 EDT, you wrote:
>Actually, I was doing some thinking. I think space fold could be made
>instantaneous, and wouldn't have that big of a cost (aside from the ritual
>elements... at least, not as far as a megacorp is concerned.

<snipped>

So this is a Great Ghost Dance style ritual? With similar sorts of drain?
Did I read that right?

That *might* be possible within what FASA has presented us.

In order to manipulate space-time in some a fashion, requiring both brute
force and fine manipulation, would have a drain code measured in number of
deaths, not stun damage.

*IF* it was possible for some bright boy to even come up with this spell
(which, as you have seen, I would argue against this), then this sort of
drain code would be appropriate. And the effect you are talking about
would be possible.

This is probably the most appropriate answer (if I read and understood it
right) to the question of teleportation that I've seen; it's possible, but
so incredibly impractical as to be effectively useless and to become the
strict domain of the GM.

Not bad...

Erik J.


"What was that popping sound?"

"A paradigm shifting without a clutch."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:54:57 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Prometheus Unbound (was Re: Astral Magic)
In-Reply-To: <199805201802.OAA15073@********.mindspring.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 02:01 PM 5/20/98 -0400, you wrote:

>><< 6th worlds magical beliefs originates from the 5th world beliefs of
>> magic. Scientific theory does not affect this. And the old ways are still
>> the foundation of current magic research for the Hermetics still seeking
>> to understand this new world. >>
>>
>>Yes, but what about science fiction theory? That's still what space fold
is.
>
> Has no effect on magic. That's what I was saying.


As much as I hate to step up in opposition to you MC23, and as much as I
hate it when people try to interject too much science into their magic
("Hey, my new spell is a Meson Beam!"...dork...), I've gotta do it.

You are both right, at least to a certain degree. Much of magic theory to
date in RL has little grounding in modern science (we do have to remember,
though, that hundreds of years ago science and magic was one and the same,
i.e. alchemy).

However, you've got to remember that a cross-pollination of ideas and
concepts ala the Renaissance would be occuring, or on the verge of occuring
within the world of SR. The *science* of magic is not isolated nor would
it be exclusively concerned with moldy old tomes.

I think you'd also have to remember that when magic returned, you'd have a
whole lot of people trying to quantify it and make it a hard science just
as physics. I'm sure a fair number of hermetics see it just that way.

I'd also be willing to be that the number of "Double Domes" as the Grimmy
calls them would be increasing, those individuals with a strong footing in
both magical theory and some physical science or other (likely physics I
would think).

So in the end, I strongly believe that you'd have a pretty good amount of
information filtering back and forth across academia, with people trying
ideas from differing fields and seeing if they work in magic theory. I can
easily imagine some white lab coated supernerd wondering if that physics
paper on space folding could possibly work using magic, and trying to meld
what he knows of physics with what he knows of magic. It might simply be
an exercise in futility, but I can see it being thought of.

You have similar sorts of things happening in our modern world, and it's
one of the main reasons there is this intense feeling of massive change
going on, when in reality it's just a horde of tiny changes all of which
are interacting and cross-pollinating.

Erik J.


"What was that popping sound?"

"A paradigm shifting without a clutch."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 13:39:24 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Just thought I'd say hello

On Wed, 20 May 1998 10:49:14 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>Graelorn said on 18:44/19 May 98...
<SNIP>
>> And so, I thought joing this list would be a good way for me to get up
to
>> date on the setting. Besides SRII, Shadowtech and SS catalougue2 I
have not
>> bought any SR stuff at all. So, if no one cares I may occasionally ask
for
>> quick overviews of products and such. :o)
>
>If it's still available, you could download the first issue of The
>Shadowrun Supplemental (Adam will probably give you the address if I
>mention here that I've forgotten it and don't feel like starting up my
WWW
>browser :) where there's a bunch of reviews of most SR books published
up
>until early last year.

TSS (The Shadowrun Supplemental) Productions is at:
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj/

>> Well here are a couple of starter questions...
>>
>> 1.) Has Japan (Mega-Tokyo?) been detailed in any source books, yet?
>
>Not really; IIRC FASA has said they aren't going to do a Japan
sourcebook
>any time soon. I believe it's mainly because they like locals to write
>location sourcebooks.

There are netbooks about Japan ... The best (IMO) I've seen so far is at:
http://www.sainet.or.jp/~fatcat/index-e.html

<SNIP>
>Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html -
<SNIP Sig>

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 13:46:16 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Skillz to pay the billz

On Tue, 19 May 1998 10:36:46 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>Erik Jameson said on 20:01/18 May 98...
>> This opens up a gripe I know some people have with the SR skill
>system.
>[snip gripe]
>
>IMHO an easy fix is to _require_ concentrations, rather than have them
>available as options to players. However in that case I think the +1
bonus
>should be removed, and only a +1 added for specializing. Taking this a
>step further, if someone wants to have the basic skill, you could
subtract
>a point.
>
>For example, spending 4 skillpoints on Computer (Software) means you get
a
>level of 4 in this concentration; 4 points on Computer (Software, Matrix
>Programming) gives a skill level of 5, while just Computer skill with 4
>points spent gives a skill of 3.
>
>At any rate it means characters will be good at the thing they
>concentrated in (for example, Athletics (Climbing)) but less about
related
>areas (running, jumping, lifting, etc.).
>
>--
>Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html -
<SNIP>

I want to make sure I've got this right ...

Bob spends 4 "points" nprmally, he could get:
Computer at 4;
Computer at 3, Software at 5; or
Computer at 2, Software at 4, Matrix Software at 6.

With your system Bob could get:
Computer at 3;
Computer at 2, Software at 4; or
Computer at 1, Software at 3, Matrix Software at 5.

right?
BTW, what happens if Concentration or Specialization would reduce the
general skill to 0? (ie Bob spends 2 "points" in firearms and
specializes in Colt Manhunter... would he have [Using the standard
system, not Gurth's] a firearms general skill of 1 or 0?)

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 22:17:55 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <runefo@***.uio.no>
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Organization: The University of Oslo
Subject: Re: Blood Magic (Your gonna hate this one ...[well maybe :) ])
In-Reply-To: <199805201711.AA113600@*****.scri.fsu.edu>
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*snip blood mages as pc's*

First off - I don't have the Aztlan sourcebook.

A blood mage as a PC might be okay with me, as I expect the
'not available as PC's' note on many things is because they want to
give the game a veneer of morality, as well as quell some rather
extreme power game options - I deal with those kinds of things in my
own way.

Things to consider, though:

Blood magic isn't necessarily *better* than other magic - just
different. Considering using blood sacrifice similar to fetish
addiction should be highly appropriate, so would reducing the
power of spells cast without that sacrifice. The caster would,
considering the training regime, be highly likely to have a ritual
concentration - blood specialization(?) on sorcery.

Then, the hunted bit. Blood mages are almost guaranteed to have a
sample or three left back home - one which is still in Aztlan hands
at the start of the game, one which it would be suicide to try to
retrieve. I believe most of Aztlan's ritual teams are fairly busy,
but they'll find time somewhere down the road to nuke him
(or else send a dream insinuation to kill all his allies before
suiciding, that sort of thing.).

I'd make that a fairly hefty flaw.. in the vicinity of 'cortex bomb'
but not quite, as it's easier to defend against. (You get some
warning, after all, but it can be used more than once.. ).


Hey! Why isn't there a flaw for 'ritual sample in enemy's posession'
?
--
Fade

And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 22:17:55 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <runefo@***.uio.no>
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Organization: The University of Oslo
Subject: Re: Astral Magic)
In-Reply-To: <19980520171444.20860.qmail@*******.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Do people think/know if that would be the case i.e. if the caster is
> standing in an area of normal magic and casts a spell into an area of
> abnormal magic (eg space) would the caster be effected as if they are
> standing in the area of abnormal magic?

I'd say the spell suffers the effects of leaving the gaiasphere as an
astrally active object - disruption.
--
Fade

And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:41:52 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses Publishing
Subject: Re: Blood Magic (Your gonna hate this one ...[well maybe :) ])
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Don't worry, I don't wanna know how to make PC Blood Mages ... well, not
> exactly, anyway... Could you make a ex-Blood mage (Just a RP thing.
> Maybe a few special Edges/flaws [Bad karma comes to mind] no actual Blood
> Magic) that defected from Aztlan or maybe somewhere else like Amazonia
> (Is this the right one?)? Or is the only PC Blood magic-related
> character option available a burned out mage? I know even the last isn't
> allowed per FASA, but I was wondering what you guys had to say on the
> matter. What would you allow among PCs and why?

From what I understand, Aztlan and Harlequin's Back have some kind-of
sort-of not-really rules for using Blood Magic. I can't find the first
and don't own the latter, so I can't elaborate more than that - someone
else on the list?


- Matt

------------------------------------
In a dark time, the eye begins to see. - T. Roethke

GridSec: SRCard
Teen Poets FAQ: http://pw1.netcom.com/~mbreton/poetry/poetfaq.htm
SRTCG Website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/2189/ccgtop.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 22:47:22 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Skillz to pay the billz
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980520102803.21872a16@****.fbiz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Erik Jameson said on 14:25/20 May 98...

> I don't think it takes a genius to figure out how I know this.

Then I'm not a genius...


--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
En ik zal het heen twee keer zehhen.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------












> BTW, unless I'm mistaken, your real first name starts with a "J" yes?

Why do you think I wanted the Russian I for a one-letter nick some time
back? :)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 15:05:53 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Just thought I'd say hello
In-Reply-To: <199805200848.KAA17979@*****.xs4all.nl>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:49 20/05/98 +0100, you wrote:

>If it's still available, you could download the first issue of The
>Shadowrun Supplemental (Adam will probably give you the address if I
>mention here that I've forgotten it and don't feel like starting up my WWW
>browser :) where there's a bunch of reviews of most SR books published up
>until early last year.

http://www.interware.it/users/adamj :)

-Adam J
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 17:05:20 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx3 <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Teleporation
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 98-05-20 14:48:52 EDT, you write:

<< In order to manipulate space-time in some a fashion, requiring both brute
force and fine manipulation, would have a drain code measured in number of
deaths, not stun damage. >>

Yes, but the important point is what is dying. Its not the mage and his
companions, but rather the genetically engineered tools that are designed as
an intergral part of the ritual.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 23:09:35 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <runefo@***.uio.no>
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Organization: The University of Oslo
Subject: Ritual magic
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From the discussions on the list recently, I've gotten an impression
that a lot of people think ritual magic is very different from
sorcery, and that spells can be cast through rituals that cannot be
cast through normal spellcasting.

I assume the basis for this is the 'ghost dance', since there's
nothing elsewhere that supports this to my immediate knowledge.
It is apparent from several sources (Harlequin's Back, for instance)
that sacrificing one's own life for some purpose lends immense
magical power, also on an individual basis - the ghost dance's
'power' was then most likely from that sacrifice, and not from ritual
- the ritual was used to strike beyond visual range, as is normal
rituals.

So I'd say that ritual magic is only more powerful than regular
sorcery in that it has some special conditions it can avoid -
primarily, LOS or sustaining, as well as giving potentially more
dice.

I know some of you won't agree at all, and in part I agree - it's
cool with rituals that can do really weird or wonderful stuff. But
for ordinary play, I'd say the above is the rule, not the exception,
and that anything outside that should be one-shot deals and not
common at all.



--
Fade

And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 15:14:09 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Just thought I'd say hello
In-Reply-To: <19980520.134618.11990.7.dghost@****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 13:39 20/05/98 -0500, you wrote:

>TSS (The Shadowrun Supplemental) Productions is at:
>http://www.interware.it/users/adamj/

*Beep* Wrong answer! The TSS in TSS Productions does not actually stand for
The Shadowrun Supplemental. And only about 5 people know what it really
does stand for :)

And no, this isn't an invitation to start an OT thread guessing what it
stands for.. :)

-Adam

-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 17:12:50 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx3 <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Prometheus Unbound (was Re: Astral Magic)
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In a message dated 98-05-20 15:00:24 EDT, you write:

<< I'd also be willing to be that the number of "Double Domes" as the
Grimmy
calls them would be increasing, those individuals with a strong footing in
both magical theory and some physical science or other (likely physics I
would think). >>

In addition to the double-domes, you'd have a good number of kooks. What if a
trekkie were a latent mage? I'm not talking about an intelligent, reasonable
person whose hobby happens to be Star Trek, but rather one of the real wakkos
who speaks fluent Klingon (in three different dialects, and with two accents),
spends most of his time wearing the Klingon make-up, and gets his Starfleet
uniform pressed during practice with his bat'leth (I've known one guy like
this... he scares me). What if he were a latent mage, then began
understanding everything from the point of view of Star Trek technobabble?
He'd probably start pulling feats out of thin air that no one else had thought
of... not because they weren't possible, but simply because they weren't
thinking in that way. His magic is heavily grounded in science fiction
theory, and it would work just as well.

Nexx
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 16:44:37 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Pool Use (was; Summer Time)
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> Summer Time (Ereskanti , Tue 1:30)
>
> yes folks, I think it's finally official. Either that, or the email programs
> of the world have come to a grinding halt on many fronts. The list traffic
> has dropped back down to levels similar to "Holiday" and "Summer"
that I have
> seen before...
>
> So, what nice little topics should we come up for the hard core members???
>
> -K

Well, since its summer, an Mr. Kenson yelled at me for bringing it up
in another forum, and advised it should be discussed here, I'l throw
this out: Pools.

Dice pools, of course, not swimming pools. Sorry, Wyrmy.

For sake of this argument, I'll assume pools represent your "focus and
concentration" on the task you are doing", and that current pool values
are good and useful for the given areas.

Given that, does anybody else find it odd that having multiple pools
essentially makes it BETTER to divide you attention among multiple task
types? The most common case is the mage who uses his magic pool for
magical offense (and maybe defense) while still getting his whole combat
pool for damage resistance. Why does he get to use ALL of BOTH pools,
when clearly, his attention is divided? If a samurai is using ONLY
combat pool, why does he effectively get fewer pool dice?
(Note that this is less aproblem with other pool combos, but still
noticable).
Having multiple pools should NOT mean you can acsess them all freely, as
that would require you attention to be spilt more than using only one
pool, which should not give a bonus.

Ideally, If you used two or more pools, each would be reduced by the
same fraction as the other, as you only have so much attention to spread
around, IMO. This is not at all practical, but is a good "base
concept", I think.

A simpler mechanic would be that any dice used in one pool that do not
exceed those in another pool come out of both pools. Sound complex, but
is actually simple; If you have 8 combat and 5 magic, and use 3 magic,
combat goes down by 3. If you then use 3 combat, magic does not go
down, as combat is 5, magic 2- both go to 2. If you then use 2 from
EITHER, both are gone.

Does this seem reasonable? Is it a"problem" that even needs fixing?
The example of mages using combat pool for damage resistance only (and
thus having more availible there than samuria) indicates to me it DOES
need fixing.

-Mongoose X
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 16:44:26 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: T-Shirts
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> > Re: T-Shirts(Wordman , Tue 0:56)

I've always wanted one of the "T-shirts" that TechDair is wearing in
Prime runners (the picture is also on P.48 of the Companion)- a Circular
Celtic patern inside a gear, with several slugs imbedded in it (TD's
version is a BPvest). I could actually do that art, in one color,
pretty well. No text on the front, unless people think this might get
you in trouble at airports (IRA and all).

The"Serenity Prayer" back would work well with this <g>, as would
the
"4 rules", space allowing (really tiny font, 3 collums?)

-Mongoose X
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 16:45:25 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Weird Campaigns
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>
> Re: Weird Campaigns -Reply -Reply (Mike Elkins , Tue 16:35)
>
> >> Wafflemeisters wrote:
> >> > Alert status can be worked around; the alert is sounded
> >> > universally, but security tallies for each decker are SEPERATE
> >> > (otherwise, IC would jump EVERYBODY, even legit users).
> >>
> >> No, legit users have valid passcodes and attempt "suspicious"
> actions
> >> infrequently. Tallies are global, which is why the first few entries on
> a
> >> security sheath are things like probe or white ice--otherwise the first
> >> dweeb who forgets his passcode and asks for the wrong file gets
> >> phychotropically altered.
> >>
> <then MCP wrote:>
> >But what happens when there is a decker in the system who has
> > upped the tally to a dangerous level (say one or two points short of
> >black ICE), and the VP of Engineering tries to log on, and types his
> >password wrong?
>
> Well, what happens is the system kicks off the back ice, which then
> figures out what it should attack. Most of the tally came from the
> decker, and just a little came from the VP. The ICE decieds to kill the
> decker first, then locks out the VP's session, preventing future log in
> attempts. VP fumes, but when shown the system logs indicating that
> the ICE encountered a decker, has to admit that it was "just doing it's
> job". Note that to get the Black ICE, the previous security sheaves found
> something wrong and flaged it, so the ICE has a pretty good idea of
> where the decker is (subject to Masking and Evasion, of course).
>
> System designers who put Black ICE in early sheaves deserve what
> they get (occasional toasted employees).
>
> Double-Domed Mike

So, supposedly, the system traks TOTAL security tally, and also the
amount genrated by each "illegal" user? (disignated HOW, as opposed to
those using "validate passcode", or those "invalidated" by an
intruding
decker?)
HMM, so an easy way for a corp decker to make things tough for an
intruder would be to perform some illegal opps, uppin the tally. A
system crash would piss off the corp, but so would stolen data... And
"invalidating" somebody would be a potential assasination technique...
I'm pretty damn sure I found a passage in VR2 that confirms that
Tallies are NOT global, but I loaned out my anotated copy and only have
the "collectors edition" here. I can't find anything that says they ARE
global, or refers to deckerS, plural, when referencing security
tallies. If tallies are global, frames would be a LOT less useful,
generally having dreck for detection factors...

-Mongoose X
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 16:45:42 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: More thoughts about clones and magic
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> More thoughts about clones and magic (Tim Kerby , Tue 21:15)
>
> Last night I posted an idea about a teleport spell using
> clones, and that lead me to think about something else. You
> can use DNA like a blood sample, skin, or hair as a ritual
> link. Now what if the target of the ritual has a clone? Since
> this clone's DNA is an exact replica of the target's, what
> happens to the ritual spell? Does it affect the target, the
> clone, or both simultaneously?

IMO, the "ritual sample" is a magical / sybolical link- DNA has little
to do with it. You can use a ritual sample even from INANIMATE
OBJECTS. Say you use the CPU from the flight control comp on Fighter
jet- thats a "vital component", easily a valid linkto the plane. Does
that mean using that link would afect EVERY similar Fighter jet? Of
course not, but the jets are effectively as similar as your clones.
Also, consider this- the "platelet factory" is a modification to the
bone marrow. Bone marrow transplants are possible today. Bone marrow
produces blood. A marrow transplants blood is genetically that of the
DONOR. Would a marrow transplant recipient's, or a platelet feactory
user's, blood be a ritual link to the donor (or whatever produced the
platelet factory)? No.
BTW, the "teleport" spell you areproposing already exists, sorta, in
awkenings. It is called"possesion", and could probably be cast
ritually, on a clone of the mage (or whoever). However, the mages OLD
body must not die, and the spell is sustained duration. A "permenant"
version would seem unlikely, as would one that allowed you to let your
old body die.

-Mongoose X
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 16:44:50 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Defaulting
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> Re: Defaulting (was Summer Time) (David Buehrer , Tue 12:16)
>
> Ereskanti wrote:

> / Actually guy, the "Defaulting through the Web" already has penalties. +2
per
> / dot already, -AND- 1 die removed from the "defaulting skill".
>
> Were do you get the "1 die removed" from? Is that in the SRC?

The "1 die removed" aplies to bonus dice from the adept power
"Improved
ability", andis mentioned in thatpowersdescription. It does not apply
to normal skill ratings when defaulting.
The SRC's "partial default" or "default from concentration"
rules are
useful in certain situations, and can affect the dice you use. Its
typical for skill one or two characters to "partial default", in order
to avoid botches.

-Mongoose X
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 16:45:34 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Petrolias on the map
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>
>
>
> Re: Petrolias on the map (Philippe Garneau , Tue 17:20)

> >> A question: can Dunkie have a prospecting claim on an island that doesn't
> >> exist yet?
> >>
> >
> >Perhaps. Can you own sub-aquatic real estate? If he has mining rights to
> >that part of the ocean floor, perhaps when it becomes an island it will
> >still be his.
> >
>
> A thing that occured to me about after my posts: won't something 301km west
> from the California coast be in international waters? Can someone own
> subaquatic real estate in the international waters? :-)


AFAIK, you CAN own internation undersea teritory, by "squaters
rights". Such a situation exists for oil platforms, whic can
concievably declare themselves nations if situated in international
waters.
Also, the ownership and even "autonomy" of uncharted islands in
international waters can go to the discover, if no nation has
"legitamte" claim. If you predict its apearance, you could claim to be
the discoverer, I suppose...
Loompanics sells a book about various "quasinational" territories
(mostly groups owning platforms and islands in international waters that
can'tget "official" recognition, but are not officially bound by another
nations laws), but I forgetthe title.

-Mongoose X
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 17:22:15 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MgkellyMP5 <MgkellyMP5@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztech Armoured Troopers
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<SNIP>

Reminds me of an article I saw in Shadowland a couple years ago about Acers.
It was an Armor Control Rig allowing a character to use a set of power armor
(and it was damn expensive, but real effective). I let a character in one of
my games have an ACR as a field test and it worked out pretty well. It's sort
of like jacking into a Antropoid drones, in a way. It just gives you more
control and better performance. Also, there wasn't any way for a Rigger to use
a set of Acer armor, or for and Acer to rig vehicles.
I'll try to dig the issue out if anyone wants more specifics.

Mgkelly
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 17:29:07 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Philippe Garneau <aaa302@*****.ULAVAL.CA>
Subject: Re: Petrolias on the map
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-----Message d'origine-----
De : Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
À : SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Date : 19 mai, 1998 18:41
Objet : Re: Petrolias on the map


>> A question: can Dunkie have a prospecting claim on an island that doesn't
>> exist yet?
>>
>
>Perhaps. Can you own sub-aquatic real estate? If he has mining rights to
>that part of the ocean floor, perhaps when it becomes an island it will
>still be his.
>
>-=-=-=-=-
>My reply, sorry, for some reason I just -cannot- reply/paste to that stuff
of
>yours Jeremy...
>
>And the answer is YES, IF the property is not claimed by a single claimant,
>the lands, including all water territories and prospective airspace, can be
>aquired in a shared/joint custodial agreement between the buyer and the
ruling
>governmental body. In this case, if the land is in International Waters,
and
>it is undeveloped, it can be aquired by an entity through the "World
>Transitions" such and such agreements with the UN (don't remember the exact
>names right now). If a posting is placed in a major news periodical
>(something that posts to over 1,000,000 people and no contestation is
afforded
>up front, the purchase can be processed with due haste.
>
>Please note that the posting does NOT have to be front page stuff, and can
be
>a simple little blurb in the classifieds (say, the Indianapolis Newspapers
as
>an example). IF it is uncontested throughout the purchase, then someone
gains
>the rights of proprietary ownership.
>
>AND, as it counts as "Accountable Assets", it is therefore something that
is
>transgressionable (that ain't the right word, I know) from one party to
>another designee of one form or another.
>
>The only thing that has to be proven in many such claims as this is that
said
>party(ies) must prove an ability to maintain the property(ies) in a fully
>satisfactory manner to all said neighbors and processes.
>
>Add to this SR "Corporate Mechanics", and this can get even more
confusing...
>
>Where do I know of this? Been through it once actually, this kind of crazy
>land swapping happens in the American Southwest more than people would like
to
>believe.
>
>-K
>

Thanks for such a complete and knowledgeable answer, -K! :-)

Now that we know the "how?", let's study the "why?"...

Why would Dunkie give exploitation rights to an Island to Federated-Boeing?

answers:

- Reinforce the fledgling Pacific Rim Co-prosperity group, soon to be joined
by Federated-Boeing? (note: i don't have the BitB book nearby, so i'm not
sure about the name, but I mean the group of second-rate corps that are
forming a group around Wuxing to better compete with the other Big 10
corps);

- To spite Mitsuhama?

- To help someone in Federated-Boeing, or Federated-Boeing (the simplest
answer)?

what do you think?

_____________________________________________________
Philippe Garneau, a.k.a Filou
Bachelier en Sciences, Microbiologie

Global Ebola? Much too icky!
Aliens zapping Washington? Get Real!
Asteroid wiping us out? Naaah!
Terrorist nuke in New York? Now that Seinfeld's gone, why bother?

I think the Y2K bug will do nicely as a Millenium catastrophe. do you?

-
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 17:21:00 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Pool Use (was; Summer Time)

<Snip: Using one pool should reduce them all>

You are correct. One of those factoids I learned studying cognitive
science is that the more skilled you are in a task, the less concentration
it takes.

Wafflemeister's proposed rule is a good compromise between playability
and accuracy, although there are two features I don't like about it.
Joe Mage (Magic Pool 8, Combat Pool 3):
Spends his full attention dodging lead (spends 3 CP), but can still cast
spells with 5MP.
or
Spends almost no attention on a spell (1MP) and looses a full 1/3 of his
combat pool. (this one isn't so bad, spliting ones attention is hard).

I can't think of a playable counter-proposal, however. If you don't mind
doing some math during character creation you could change pools into
"Cost Per Die". Everyone gets 120 points per action (I chose 120
because most numbers we will deal with go into it evenly. One could
use 100 if you prefered), people with a pool of 1 hace a Cost Per Die
(CPD) of 120. 2`, 3@, 40, 5= 24, 6 , 7 (rounding up) 8
and 9.

Joe Mage then gets written up as
Magic CPD, Combat CPD@.
Now, spending 120 points of combat gets him 3 dice, but he can't spend
anything on magic then.
If he dodges just a little (40pts, enough for 1 die), he has 80 points left
and can spend 5 dice on magic.

If you are good at adding and subtracting in your head, this scheme
works ok. If you need a calculator to figure out how many times 15
goes into 80, then, well, forget it.

As I said, I don't have a _playable_ alternate proposal.

Double-Domed Mike
--MIT&M, We Bring Good Things to Life!
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 17:51:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Teleporation
In-Reply-To: <4b1d02b5.35634591@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 05:05 PM 5/20/98 EDT, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-05-20 14:48:52 EDT, you write:
>
><< In order to manipulate space-time in some a fashion, requiring both brute
> force and fine manipulation, would have a drain code measured in number of
> deaths, not stun damage. >>
>
>Yes, but the important point is what is dying. Its not the mage and his
>companions, but rather the genetically engineered tools that are designed as
>an intergral part of the ritual.


Ah, I must have missed that. How are those "biotools" going to resist
drain for the magician though? That sounds to me like a biologically
active spell focus.

And I don't like the way that sounds.

Erik J.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 17:52:11 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Prometheus Unbound (was Re: Astral Magic)
In-Reply-To: <37173538.35634755@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 05:12 PM 5/20/98 EDT, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-05-20 15:00:24 EDT, you write:
>
><< I'd also be willing to be that the number of "Double Domes" as the
Grimmy
> calls them would be increasing, those individuals with a strong footing in
> both magical theory and some physical science or other (likely physics I
> would think). >>
>
>In addition to the double-domes, you'd have a good number of kooks. What
if a
>trekkie were a latent mage? <snipped>


Actually, Nexx ol'chap, what you describe there is a self-made tradition,
as described in Awakenings.

What you describe is someone using another belief system (science and
treknology included) to explain their magic. What I'm describing is
someone who understands both magic and physics (or whatever) as two
seperate fields of study and is looking for ways to link to two in a
rational scientific manner.

Just as a point of curiosity, how many people have actually come across
"self-made traditions" in your SR games? I've never seen one myself.

Erik J.


"Forgive me FASA for I have sinned. It has been 6 days since I last played
Shadowrun and 15 days since I last bought a SRTCG booster pack."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 17:53:12 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Pool Use (was; Summer Time)
In-Reply-To: <35634EC5.6E65@**********.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 04:44 PM 5/20/98 -0500, you wrote:

> Dice pools, of course, not swimming pools. Sorry, Wyrmy.

Hey, it's spring which does mean that swimming pools are beginning to be on
people's minds...

> For sake of this argument, I'll assume pools represent your "focus
and
>concentration" on the task you are doing", and that current pool values
>are good and useful for the given areas.

Reasonable assumption but nobody, including the DLOH, seems to know why we
have dice pools. It's an important game mechanic, but no one seems to have
the concrete answer as to why it even exists.

<snipped>

> Does this seem reasonable? Is it a"problem" that even needs fixing?
>The example of mages using combat pool for damage resistance only (and
>thus having more availible there than samuria) indicates to me it DOES
>need fixing.


Actually, I don't really think it needs fixing. BUT if I were to have to
come up with a solution to the problem you posit, I wouldn't use your
answer. It isn't an original idea, but I think it would be better then to
use a single pool for everything.

Call it a "Shadow Pool" or something, a group of dice that can be used by
shadowrunners. Not sure of what it would be, but if you accept that pools
are a byproduct of focus and concentration, you could make this pool
INT+WILL/2 or something.

Other thoughts?

Erik J.


"Ladies & Gentleman, the newest member of the band, the one and only Spice
Boy, GRUMPY SPICE!!!" <and the crowd goes wild!!!>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 18:05:50 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx3 <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Teleporation
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In a message dated 98-05-20 17:57:05 EDT, you write:

<< Ah, I must have missed that. How are those "biotools" going to resist
drain for the magician though? That sounds to me like a biologically
active spell focus. >>

The way I understood the GGD is that most of those who did the dying were
mundanes who participated in the ritual, _not_ the magicians who led it. When
designing the spell, these "biotools", as you call them, would be an active
part of the ritual, with their pre-programmed motions being part of the
focussing technique for the ritual (much like the dancing was for the GGD).
At the end of this ritual, the organisms die from the massive strain that has
been channelled by the magicians through their bodies... but they manage to
warp space.

It wouldn't always be cost-effective to do this, of course, but once in a
great while it could be incredibly useful to know how to do.

Nexx
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 18:04:07 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Ritual magic
In-Reply-To: <199805202109.XAA08595@***.uio.no>
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At 11:09 PM 5/20/98 +0000, you wrote:
<snipped>

>So I'd say that ritual magic is only more powerful than regular
>sorcery in that it has some special conditions it can avoid -
>primarily, LOS or sustaining, as well as giving potentially more
>dice.
>
>I know some of you won't agree at all, and in part I agree - it's
>cool with rituals that can do really weird or wonderful stuff. But
>for ordinary play, I'd say the above is the rule, not the exception,
>and that anything outside that should be one-shot deals and not
>common at all.

Fade, I couldn't agree more. The normal common ritual magic isn't that
special or high-powered.

Actually, I wrote up a little "fluff" piece on "ancient rituals" that
I'll
clean up, maybe do a re-write or two and post it up here. But the gist of
it is that weird rituals like the Great Ghost Dance or a teleportation
ritual should be a special thing controlled by the GM to advance a story,
nothing more.

Remind me in a day or two if I haven't posted it.

Erik J.


"Ladies & Gentleman, the newest member of the band, the one and only Spice
Boy, GRUMPY SPICE!!!" <and the crowd goes wild!!!>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 18:12:05 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Drakkath X <DrakkathX@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztech Armoured Troopers
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<<<G'day, ShadowRN.

I want to throw some *really* nasty stuff at the PCs - to make sure I
have their attention during a shootout with some Azzie heavy-infantry -
and I was wondering if anyone had made up stats for an ED-209(tm) style
combat machine - piloted, remote-rigged, or robot.>>>

Hmmm......

Yeah, a drone, seating for one, b/a 3/12, 2 mechanicalarms, mounted with
miniguns belted to 1000 rounds ex-explosive ammo(so they have.... no they
don't have a chance.) rigger inside w/ vcr3, smartlink2, paineditor;
oh yeah, who needs agression drugs when the character is controlled by a
vengeful grm- callit 2gfup[gamemaster gonna f**k you up]

..... that's nasty.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 16:44:59 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Astral Magic
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>
> Re: Astral Magic (Alfredo B Alves , Tue 12:14)

<Snip possesion / hidden life / inhabitng on "empty body" of projecting
person>

> Oooo, these are interesting .... I thought about making a Ally Spirit from
> a corpse ... this is a nifty variation ... hey, Mongoose, ever need
> someone to watch your meat while you go on an astral jaunt, you can count
> on me ;)
>


Find some other sap- Mongoose won't even use the "astral gate" if its
offered, and can't project - he's as mundane as Plasticrete. He does
have magic theory, though, and vaugely considered the "possesion
solution", as he was / is dying of essence loss. Wouldn't work with an
ally spirt, which can't inhabit sapient hosts, although an "empty body"
probably counts as a NON-sapient human host. Ended up going for a
(afaik) mundane solution, not as if he had a say...
Heres a question- couldn't you use a CLONE as you'r ally's body? Could
that clone use cyber / bioware?

-Mongoose X
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 18:25:29 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Philippe Garneau <aaa302@*****.ULAVAL.CA>
Subject: DreamTime (somewhat long)
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S
p
o
i
l
e
r

s
p
a
c
e
:

f
o
r

G
M
'
s

e
y
e
s

o
n
l
y
!

It's almost certain i'm not the first person to thing of this, but in
waking up this morning I wondered about dreaming and simsense (fitting,
isn't it?).

With many people equipped with cyberware such as simsense recording
rigs, It's just a matter of time that one think of recording their sense
accounts of their entire night's sleep (provided they can find that much MPs
on a computer nearby and can connect their simsense rig to it).

This would almost certainly record the dreams of the person, even if
he/she's don't remember them. Given some editing to make the dream
experience fit in a correct time frame, one could be able to make their
dreams available for others to experience, or to watch back themselves.

Of course, this can have some applications:

- a very expensive analytic method for psychanalysis.
- an entirely new entertainment industry.
- a new angle for Big Brother.

Here's an adventure idea based on the theme of simsense recordings of
dreams. Do not hesitate to send me comments (on the list or privately).

A dreaming circle.

A group of successful simsense actors and close friends gathers
periodically to share dreams they had and that they recorded on simsense
full-X format. Now their corps employers don't know about this stuff, and
the stars really like it that way, because they don't want to see the
precious little privacy they've have left sold to the hungry crowds.

Now during an hostile extraction attempt of a simsense Star that is a
member of the Dreaming Circle, a mage does a mind probe on his/her and
discover accidentally the existence of the Circle. The mage reveal the
secret to his employer for extra nuyen. The runners Mr. Johnson soon hire
them again, this time to raid the Dreaming Circle's quarters and steal the
celebrities dreams. However, the extracted star manages to send a warning to
her fellow members and they move the recordings to an alternate location.
They also hire another group of runners to defeat the first group, find out
who is their employers, and eliminate him to protect the secret. Of
course, the runners would be paid (or killed) to keep their own mouths
shut...

Note: this is not related to the story above, but other people with
'sense rigs may have begun to sell at a small level recordings of their
dreams. After all, we know that some people dream more than others (or
remember more their dreams than others), and some things like essence loss
can surely cause decreased dreaming. So I think that once the product is
revealed, there would be a demand for this Dream product. Anyway, these
transactions may have been done person-to-person, or via the Matrix
(persona-to-persona). However, the crime syndicates soon find out about
that very profitable market, and attempt to "unionize" the dreamers under
their direction. Or course, most of the dreamers want nothing of the sort,
and would want protection against the Mobs, so they could ask the runners
for help. Alternatively, the Corps can fill the same role as the Mobs on
this one, or be competitor to them.

Anyway, enjoy! And send/post comments!

_____________________________________________________
Philippe Garneau, a.k.a Filou
Bachelier en Sciences, Microbiologie

Global Ebola? Much too icky!
Aliens zapping Washington? Get Real!
Asteroid wiping us out? Naaah!
Terrorist nuke in New York? Now that Seinfeld's gone, why bother?

I think the Y2K bug will do nicely as a Millenium catastrophe. do you?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 18:29:00 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Giving blood in 205X: common or rare?
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In a message dated 5/20/98 9:08:46 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
wgallas@*****.FR writes:

> >Ah Hell, that is -really- easy. AoE Ritual Magic using Mental
Manipulations
> >like "Mob Mood" or "Mob Mind". Create/Design specific
variations on a
> theme
> >such as "Mob Suggestion" or "Mob Dream Insinuation". Place
all samples
> within
> >the ritual that is being performed and cast away.
>
> I thought about something like this but I'm not sure you can already use
> multiple samples in a ritual... Perhaps it would require some magical
> research from the corp.
>
In -practice- you are probably correct. Perhaps a "complexity modifier" added
to the drain of the ritual???

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 18:32:49 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Petrolia? (Re: Considering things from St. Dunkhelzahn's
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In a message dated 5/20/98 9:25:12 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU writes:

> That's true. I forgot about Iceland, for example, being created out of some
> lava flows. But overall is there nearly as much activity there as in the
> Pacific? Its been about 10-12 years since I had a lot of geography, so I'm
> trying to remember. I know that one of the plates runs through the
> Atlantic, but that it was a more stable meeting than the Pacific one.
>
Yes and No. In an outward expression, yes, it's more publicly recognized that
the PacRim is more volcanically active than the Atlantic Basin. The "Mid-
Atlantic Ridge" is probably the plate activity you are referring to. Iceland
and Greenland are, IIRC, at the upper branch of the North Atlantic's junction
in those plates. The "spreading" of those two plates is where the weaknesses
have allowed for the volcanic activity to puncture through the strata and
cause the activity that I mentioned.

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 18:36:21 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Giving blood in 205X: common or rare?
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In a message dated 5/20/98 9:48:47 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
bigdaddy@*****.COM writes:

> now just outta curiosity. is it easier to clone a human than lets say a
troll?
>
> well if it isnt picture this:
>
<snipped size comparison>

Ever heard the term, "It ain't how big it is, but how you use it?" Believe it
or not, this applies to "organ culturing as well". the only problem/obstacle
is maintaining ample storage/harvesting space and proper nutrient bathes.

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:37:57 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: DreamTime (somewhat long)
In-Reply-To: <000f01bd843e$32164140$1ea0cb84@*********.rsvs.ulaval.ca>
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At 18:25 5/20/98 -0400, Philippe Garneau insinuated:
>S
>p
>o
>i
>l
>e
>r
>
>s
>p
>a
>c
>e
>:
>
>f
>o
>r
>
>G
>M
>'
>s
>
>e
>y
>e
>s
>
>o
>n
>l
>y
>!
>
> With many people equipped with cyberware such as simsense recording
>rigs, It's just a matter of time that one think of recording their sense
>accounts of their entire night's sleep (provided they can find that much MPs
>on a computer nearby and can connect their simsense rig to it).
>
> This would almost certainly record the dreams of the person, even if
>he/she's don't remember them.

This is only if you rule that dreams show up at the sensory level at
which you record simsense. I'm fairly sure that if you could record
dreams, you could record any piece of visual imagination-- you could
have cameras that record things seen only in the mind's eye! I would
rule that a simsense recording of someone dreaming would get the
physical sensations of lying there with your eyes closed and the
emotional states from the dream, but the actual imagery would be
absent.

--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "Ham is good... Glowing *tattooed* ham is *bad*!" - the Tick %%
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 18:41:01 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Prometheus Unbound (was Re: Astral Magic)
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In a message dated 5/20/98 11:09:12 AM US Eastern Standard Time, Nexx3@***.COM
writes:

> << You are working from a basis the spacial folds are possible for
> Shadowrun's magic. Magic is wonderful and all but in Shadowrun it is not
> a tool to do everything. It has it's own limitations like everything else.
>
> >
>
> True, it has limitations, but given the different paradigm (oops, there's
> the
> p word) that Sixth Worlders operate under, it has more possibilities to
them
> than it would to a Fourth Worlder. After all, when did the concept of
space
> fold really get its theoretical basing? Mid-twentieth century, most
likely.
> Without the idea of how to do something, how could one even attempt it?
>
I can only get in on the "opposing side" this time. It has been the goals of
Mankind for eons to be able to "travel in the blink of an eye". Imaginary
carpets of magic, doorways that skipped from one room to another. the list is
almost endless. It isn't something designated by limitation of "mentality",
but by "Imagination".

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 18:45:23 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Magic (Your gonna hate this one ...[well maybe :) ])
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In a message dated 5/20/98 11:54:14 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
mc23@**********.COM writes:

> Hunted by Aztechnology and a bounty on their head courtesy of
> Dunkelzahn. Very short lifespan of such a character. Also very disruptive
> to the other players.
> Welcome to week five of the campaign, "Aztech and bounty hunters
> again!?!"
>
Actually, the second article/obstacle could probably be gotten around. An
Aztlan Blood Mage who decides to "leave his order" for whatever reasons could
turn himself over to the Draco Foundation, and then offer himself up for a
series of Mind Probes and the like, even writing down works of material that
he's familiar with. Then become a sort of "Blood Mage Repellant", as in he
knows what they do, he can start working on things that could correct it or
defend against it.

We actually got into this a LONG time ago. A very special "Mana Barrier"
spell of sorts worked against ONLY Blood Magic of various types (it also
managed to screen out the powers of Vampires). Really got the odds of things
evened up a bit.

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 18:50:12 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Magic)
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In a message dated 5/20/98 12:15:36 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
m_waddilove@*******.COM writes:

> and for another one a LOS detection spell that makes your perceptions
> appear to be from the target point cast, through a telescope. Talk
> about revolutionise astronomy.

Actually, you wouldn't have to go quite so far. How about a "MagSight" Spell?
We've done this before along the lines of "enhancing a particular sense"
spell. Successes x force x 5 or x attribute as a measurement of
"Magnification". Cast it on a particularly "friendly" power site, and
things
can get -really- cool.

> That is of course if your brain doesn't get zapped by casting a spell
> with a target point outside the manasphere.

I have other opinions of this.

> Do people think/know if that would be the case i.e. if the caster is
> standing in an area of normal magic and casts a spell into an area of
> abnormal magic (eg space) would the caster be effected as if they are
> standing in the area of abnormal magic?

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 18:57:25 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Fully Active Aura Cloning
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After much discourse (again) on the topic of Cloning and "Aura", a simple
thought with a complex requirement leaped into my mind.

Utilize the "Aura Keeping" ritual upon the taking of a particular
blood/genetic sample. Maintain it with a magician or two or three along the
way and go through the procedure(s) of creating a "Harvester Organ Donor" (a
clone without a mind or soul).

Then, as part of the Cybermantic-Like Ritual Magics (which have other, less
nasty names in other places), literally "ignite" the mentality and spirit of
the "clone". As the "aura maintainance" was performed upon the clone
at
nearly all stages of it's development, you get a "True" aura match.

At least in theory...how's that for a thought???

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 18:59:44 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Magic (Your gonna hate this one ...[well maybe :) ])
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In a message dated 5/20/98 3:18:31 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
runefo@***.UIO.NO writes:

> Hey! Why isn't there a flaw for 'ritual sample in enemy's posession'
> ?
> -
There is, it's called "Limited Time"... ;}

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 19:11:19 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Petrolias on the map
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In a message dated 5/20/98 4:30:40 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
aaa302@*****.ULAVAL.CA writes:

> Thanks for such a complete and knowledgeable answer, -K! :-)

NO Prob... :)

> Now that we know the "how?", let's study the "why?"...

Okay, Let's, this might help us here decide the course of the game..

> Why would Dunkie give exploitation rights to an Island to Federated-Boeing?
>
> answers:
>
> - Reinforce the fledgling Pacific Rim Co-prosperity group, soon to be
joined
> by Federated-Boeing? (note: i don't have the BitB book nearby, so i'm not
> sure about the name, but I mean the group of second-rate corps that are
> forming a group around Wuxing to better compete with the other Big 10
> corps);

Name is "Pacific Prosperity Group" btw. Federated Boeing hasn't made a
decision, as per the BitB text. However, it could swing either way what
effects this would have. Depending upon what exactly is unearthed
(literally), this could become a very nasty place. Formerly rare
minerals/materials might literally flow up, especially if a thermal vein is
disturbed beneath the strata in that vicinity.

There is also something about a "vaccine" that is required to all kids born
after that time period, so I am loathe to consider what else is going to be
spewing up into the atmosphere (as if Mankind hadn't fu@*** things up enough).

Also, if particularly useful materials (say, component elements to airplane
alloys and/or other composities) were found, then Federated Boeing would be
effectively be given a massive level of resources to draw upon for a lot of
their toys.

> - To spite Mitsuhama?

Well, yeah, he could have wanted to do that too... ;)

> - To help someone in Federated-Boeing, or Federated-Boeing (the simplest
> answer)?

Oh yeah, this is definitely a thing. Big D seems to have had a very large,
but very personable, agenda he wanted to maintain, even after his death.

> what do you think?

I think we aren't going to get any major answers of this type until the new
"Corporate Rundown" (or whatever the name is) comes out.

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 19:13:00 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Teleporation
In-Reply-To: <57fc5bd1.356353c0@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 06:05 PM 5/20/98 EDT, you wrote:

>The way I understood the GGD is that most of those who did the dying were
>mundanes who participated in the ritual, _not_ the magicians who led it.
When
>designing the spell, these "biotools", as you call them, would be an active
>part of the ritual, with their pre-programmed motions being part of the
>focussing technique for the ritual (much like the dancing was for the GGD).
>At the end of this ritual, the organisms die from the massive strain that has
>been channelled by the magicians through their bodies... but they manage to
>warp space.

You know, I can't recall if the GGD used mundanes or not. Could we get
some sort of reference on this from someone, preferably with page numbers
please?

Anyway, I suppose what you are talking about is possible, as long as the
"biotools" aren't just algae or something; I would think that they would
have to be alive *and* sentient, not just have biomass.

Actually <light bulb!> what you propose is essentially a form of Blood
Magic. Blood Magic actually has little to do with actually shedding blood
and is more of a process in which life, or Essence, is stolen from the
victim to power magic.

So given that this would be a Blood Magic ritual (which is supposed to be
difficult information to dig up, even though a fair number of people know
it exists), I suppose what you are proposing would be possible, at least in
theory. Not sure about how the theory would translate, but that's really a
moot point now, isn't it?

Erik J.


"Ladies & Gentleman, the newest member of the band, the one and only Spice
Boy, GRUMPY SPICE!!!" <and the crowd goes wild!!!>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 19:34:19 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: SThanatos <sthanatos@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Ritual magic
In-Reply-To: <199805202109.XAA08595@***.uio.no>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Can't one use ritual magic to increase the area of effect of a spell?
I.E.: A group of mages casting Chaotic World over a whole building or a
floor of a building by ritual magic, where it would just be impossible with
one set of dice.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 19:42:47 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: DisnyShamn <DisnyShamn@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Ultra Boy in Shadowrun
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Demosthenes Three wrote:
> / For a Shadowrun twist to the idea, what about a street samurai that
> / has a TON of cyberware implanted in him, with the limitation that he
> / can only access one system?

Which prompted David to opine:

> While it would work well for a superhero game (in fact, I'll try it out
> on my next Champion's character) I don't think it would go over well in
> actual application in Shadowrun, at least not in my group.
>
> In SR a Street Samurai is a Street Samurai, and a Rigger is a Rigger,
> and so on.

Aha. Inspiration particle encountered. How's about a limited form of physad
(physical adept adept? ::shrug::), can only use one ability at a time. Now, of
course, this could be cheesed by only GETTING one or two powers, but hey.

- Disney Shaman
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 19:56:29 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: DisnyShamn <DisnyShamn@***.COM>
Subject: Re: MysticPunk/SpacePunk
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DGhost writes:

[Far-future fantasy idea]

> This is a really wierd idea, I know... but I think it might be fun to
> play in this world every once in a while... whadya think?

I think it sounds cool, had the idea for this once myself, with the a=
lteration that different planets would have different levels of mana, d=
epending on how old and how dense their population. Thing with my idea wa=
s, there was a balancing act; older, bigger worlds are cool for magicia=
ns because of the high magic, but let them get TOO mystically potent an=
d the veil wears thin and the horrors break through (Earth's not exactl=
y a fun town anymore).

This actually brings me to my current campaign; having begun a Shatterz=
one campaign (Space-Opera SF game) a year or two ago, I started trying =
to convert SR Matrix 2.0 rules to it (In Shatterzone, you use your real=
-world skill in the net – you can fight IC with Fire Combat, Energy W=
eapons or Unarmed Combat skills... I just couldn't agree). That proved =
so difficult I just decided to convert the whole thing to SRII. So far,=
four or five successful sessions, going strong.

Anyway, anyone else out there whose done far-future stuff with SR have =
any advice? I've come up with rules for energy weapon (blasters, sonics=
, various lasers...), ships, psionics (NOT a variation on magic, either=
; converted 'em from GURPS. If anything, they seem to work better with =
SR, go figure), but I'm always looking for more...

- Disney Shaman
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 19:29:13 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Giving blood in 205X: common or rare?
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Cobra escreveu:
>
>
> When recovering samples, you need to practice a little ritual (a sorcery
> test) to keep it useable for some time (I remember it as days but I'm not
> sure). If you want to keep it for some time, you have to cast a preserve
> spell on it and to maintain it (which requires karma).
>


If you take the sample from a willing subject AND aply that small
ritual
to it, it lasts forever.

Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 19:34:52 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Aztech Armoured Troopers
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Danyel N Woods escreveu:
>
>
> I'll have to take your word for it (I assume the Anthropoid is a mean
> machine out of R2? I only have access to the RBB), but that's the sort
> of thing I'm looking for: a mega-tough, well-armed, (vaguely?)
> human-shaped combat drone/cyborg that'll bounce most small arms, and
> take a good bit of punishment from heavier weapons before going
> off-line.
>


Just give it Body/Armor 5/15, with two miniguns (or Rotary
Autocannons), one in each
arm. It would walk with a Quickness of 4. I'm not using anything
official here, so no flames
for not obeying the Rigger 2 book, OK?

Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 19:24:57 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Giving blood in 205X: common or rare?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Ereskanti wrote:

>>
>
> NOT if you can get a person to become a "Blood Bank" on their own.
What I
> mean by this is the potentially abominational power of "Limb
Donors". Think
> of a clonal body being produced, or a person that is "brain dead" who
has
> decided to be a good samaritan and be an "Organ Donor". In this
case, the
> body is kept alive on an indefinite basis. Organs are removed as
needed, and
> clonal parts are simply regrown within said individual's body. Same
type of
> situation, as long as the body is kept in near-100% health, it can be
used for
> TONS of things. With the right kind of protein and nutrient bathing,
the body
> in question could become nothing more than a "Blood Bank", producing
much
> needed blood for all sorts of medical requirements.


I think they really do thid in SR... In Shadowtech, KAM says
something about
a "host body" for growing bioware and spare organs. Could be a brain
dead person,
or some altered egg designed to become a great mass of "generic" cells
(not from
a specific organ). Then they's make some of those cells transform into
the organ or
piece of bioware as needed. Howz that?

Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 19:13:38 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Magic

On Wed, 20 May 1998 16:44:59 -0500 Wafflemeisters
<evamarie@**********.net> writes:
>>
>> Re: Astral Magic (Alfredo B Alves , Tue 12:14)
>
><Snip possesion / hidden life / inhabitng on "empty body" of projecting
>person>

>> Oooo, these are interesting .... I thought about making a Ally Spirit
from
>> a corpse ... this is a nifty variation ... hey, Mongoose, ever need
>> someone to watch your meat while you go on an astral jaunt, you can
count
>> on me ;)

<SNIP Bit about Mongoose :)>
>Wouldn't work with an
>ally spirt, which can't inhabit sapient hosts, although an "empty body"
>probably counts as a NON-sapient human host. Ended up going for a
>(afaik) mundane solution, not as if he had a say...
> Heres a question- couldn't you use a CLONE as you'r ally's body?
>Could that clone use cyber / bioware?
>
>-Mongoose X

IF you could clone someone for the body of an Ally spirit (Which I would
allow...), then IMO, the cyber & bio would be useless ... The Alley is
basically a flesh golem with some metal / plastic parts :) If that body
had limb replacements, the ally could animate it as normal but it is
animating it not "using" it ...

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)

_____________________________________________________________________
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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 19:04:39 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Pool Use (was; Summer Time)

On Wed, 20 May 1998 17:53:12 -0400 Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM> writes:
>At 04:44 PM 5/20/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> Dice pools, of course, not swimming pools. Sorry, Wyrmy.

>Hey, it's spring which does mean that swimming pools are beginning to
>be on
>people's minds...

>> For sake of this argument, I'll assume pools represent your
"focus
>>and concentration" on the task you are doing", and that current pool
values
>>are good and useful for the given areas.

>Reasonable assumption but nobody, including the DLOH, seems to know why
we
>have dice pools. It's an important game mechanic, but no one seems to
have
>the concrete answer as to why it even exists.

Actually, It was my understanding that Dice Pools represent Natural
Ability in certain areas... The Combat, Atheltic, and Social Pools (the
last two are optional pools from SRCo) represents the character's natural
Aptitude (Ahnold Shwahtzeneagger should easily be able to kick the snot
out of Pee Wee Herman ...) while the Magic, and Hacking Pools represent
the characters supperior knowledge (and in the case of the Hacking Pool,
supperior resources/natural ability). The Control Pool represents the
character's supperior reaction time and awareness while rigged as well as
a few other factors ... All IMO :)

><snipped>
>> Does this seem reasonable? Is it a"problem" that even needs
fixing?
>>The example of mages using combat pool for damage resistance only (and
>>thus having more availible there than samuria) indicates to me it DOES
>>need fixing.

>Actually, I don't really think it needs fixing. BUT if I were to have
to
>come up with a solution to the problem you posit, I wouldn't use your
>answer. It isn't an original idea, but I think it would be better then
to
>use a single pool for everything.
>
>Call it a "Shadow Pool" or something, a group of dice that can be used
by
>shadowrunners. Not sure of what it would be, but if you accept that
pools
>are a byproduct of focus and concentration, you could make this pool
>INT+WILL/2 or something.
>
>Other thoughts?
>
>Erik J.
<SNIP Sig>

I don't think it needs fixing either ... IMO, the dice pools represent
very little extra effort ... However, If *I* were to "fix" em, I'd make
the Dice Pools smaller and make them available in full for every skill
roll ... but this would get out of hand ... I think they work well enough
as is :)

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
"What are you supposed to be? the Spice Boys?"

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:14:52 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: DisnyShamn <DisnyShamn@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Weird Campaigns
Mime-Version: 1.0
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> I'm pretty damn sure I found a passage in VR2 that confirms that
> Tallies are NOT global, but I loaned out my anotated copy and only have
> the "collectors edition" here. I can't find anything that says they ARE
> global, or refers to deckerS, plural, when referencing security
> tallies. If tallies are global, frames would be a LOT less useful,
> generally having dreck for detection factors...

I seem to recall a reference in VR2 to systems remaining "alert" for awhile
after a decker has logged off. This would necessitate some sort of globalness
of security tally. I'd suggest a compromise;

Let's look at what happens when a security tally is raised; the system becomes
increasingly "aware" of an intruder; alarms are going off. Now, this SHOULD,
if the system had an at-all-logical designer, kick in some general diagnostics
and whatnot. But the more you do, the easier it will be to locate you, in
particular. I can think of a few ways to do this; one requires some
bookkeeping, another monkeys with the rules in VR2 a bit and makes any long
duration very nasty, and the last makes team-decking a bt too safe.

1. Security tally IS global, but a given user/decker is tracked ONLY from the
point at which he entered the system. That is, if Decker Bob had a tally of 12
when Decker Cindy-Lu-Hoo comes in, the can both raise the tally, but for her
it starts at 0.
Example: if he raises it another 2 and she blunders it up by 3, it's raised a
total of 5 for both, raising him to 17, but her to only 5.

2. The Sec Tally somehow LOWERS the decker's Detection rating. Every 3 points
or something? Thus, the longer a decker is in the system, the more obviously
he/she is the target, but it'd still be a danger to say security deckers doing
illegal stuff (it might notice them, it's just mroe likely to notice the
other).

3. Tally is figured individually, only until two people even out; then it's
cumulative.
Example: Decker Bob is at 12 again when Decker Cindy arrives. She accumulates
a tally normally, but doesn't trigger anything until she hits 12 (unless Bob
gains some; anyway, until she's even with Bob); he has "blazed a datatrail"
fro her, and she can avoid sprung IC. Once they're even, they add to one
another's tally.

4. (Probably simplest) Sec tallies are partially global; that is, most of it
is individual, each decker gaining a seperate tally as "normal", but some
pervcentage (say, every 5th level) adds to a "general tally", increasing
EVERYONE'S tally (though this will only trigger IC on the person(s) actually
performing the action).

- Disney Shaman
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:17:12 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Petrolias on the map
In-Reply-To: <5a382793.35636318@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 07:11 PM 5/20/98 EDT, you wrote:


>> Why would Dunkie give exploitation rights to an Island to
Federated-Boeing?
>>
>> answers:
>>

>Name is "Pacific Prosperity Group" btw. Federated Boeing hasn't made a
>decision, as per the BitB text. However, it could swing either way what
>effects this would have. Depending upon what exactly is unearthed
>(literally), this could become a very nasty place. Formerly rare
>minerals/materials might literally flow up, especially if a thermal vein is
>disturbed beneath the strata in that vicinity.
>
>There is also something about a "vaccine" that is required to all kids born
>after that time period, so I am loathe to consider what else is going to be
>spewing up into the atmosphere (as if Mankind hadn't fu@*** things up
enough).

Hey, wait a minute <light bulb?> When is Halley's Comet supposed to come
back around? This eruption happens, what Oct. 3, 2060, or there abouts,
right? And since I haven't read the will in a while, I'll have to trust
you about the vaccine date (I remember the item, just not the date.)

If Halley's Comet is supposed to arrived during that same time frame, I
think we've found our "Night of the Comet" plotline that has been rumored.

Of course, I could be totally wrong on this, since I have no real dates in
front of me. Someone want to check into this? I suspect I'm wrong, but
it's an interesting idea, yes?

>Also, if particularly useful materials (say, component elements to airplane
>alloys and/or other composities) were found, then Federated Boeing would be
>effectively be given a massive level of resources to draw upon for a lot of
>their toys.

Almost guaranteed. This event alone could possibly draw them up to the AAA
tier, or maybe not. But it clearly would give them extra ammunition.


>> what do you think?
>
>I think we aren't going to get any major answers of this type until the new
>"Corporate Rundown" (or whatever the name is) comes out.

Possible. The Corporate Download book I think is focusing in on the Big
10, and depending on how much attention is paid to the Pacific Prosperity
Group, an answer of some sort might be forthcoming. But we'll have to wait
until December/January for this though...

Erik J.


"Forgive me FASA for I have sinned. It has been 6 days since I last played
Shadowrun and 15 days since I last bought a SRTCG booster pack."
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:22:16 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: DisnyShamn <DisnyShamn@***.COM>
Subject: Troll Clones
Mime-Version: 1.0
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> now just outta curiosity. is it easier to clone a human than lets say a
troll?
> well if it isnt picture this:

I'd think it would take longer, just as gestation does for trolls, and it'd
take more nutrients. There's simply more physical mass to grow.

Hmm... but MAINTAINING such a body might be a bit cheaper; larger beings using
up less resources (nutrients & oxygen) for their mass.

- Disney Shaman
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:19:07 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Fully Active Aura Cloning
In-Reply-To: <3717bc0e.35635fd6@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 06:57 PM 5/20/98 EDT, you wrote:
>After much discourse (again) on the topic of Cloning and "Aura", a simple
>thought with a complex requirement leaped into my mind.

Let's check it out then.

>Utilize the "Aura Keeping" ritual upon the taking of a particular
>blood/genetic sample. Maintain it with a magician or two or three along the
>way and go through the procedure(s) of creating a "Harvester Organ Donor" (a
>clone without a mind or soul).

I suppose it's possible. I'm not positive, but for sake of argument, let's
say you're right so far.

>Then, as part of the Cybermantic-Like Ritual Magics (which have other, less
>nasty names in other places), literally "ignite" the mentality and spirit of
>the "clone". As the "aura maintainance" was performed upon the
clone at
>nearly all stages of it's development, you get a "True" aura match.

Well, I think in this case you really get into a discussion of what is the
aura and what is life and is there a soul.

What is life? Who knows, but this clone at least has biologically viable
cells which are at least individually alive.

What is the aura? Not totally sure there either. We do know it reflects
the person's emotions and even thoughts. We also know that it is supposed
to be as unique as a fingerprint. We also know that in some way, it's a
measurement of "life" itself. Beyond that, it's not really clear. If it's
merely a matter of matching "colors" it could possibly be done, but I've
always gotten the impression that auras are an extremely complex pattern or
color, smell, taste, touch, sound and raw "feeling."

Is there a soul? Without getting into a religious discussion, I would say
that in the world of FASA's Shadowrun there is. What does cybermancy do
after all? It traps something we could at least call a soul in a body it
wishes to vacate. Theories of Essence seem to assume that there is
something like a soul. So I would have to argue that in SR there is
something like a soul. This soul gives life, at least to more complex life
forms (I, for example, would like to think that in SR my cat would have a
soul, but that's my personal preference).

If it's the soul that gives life, and not just biological complexity, then
no clone, at least no (meta)human clone can possibly be made because you'd
have to also clone a soul.

Please remember that I'm trying to argue using strictly SR terms and SR
cosmology. I would like people to keep that in mind when replying to this
particular message, especially since I don't want to debate real world
religion or philosophy on this list.

Anyway, how can you clone a soul? Even using your procedure, I don't see
how it could happen. I'd argue that nothing would happen. But it is
possible (though perhaps not probable) that the soul could be forced to
split, half of the soul staying in the original body and half going to
inhabit the clone body. Or the stresses of being split or trying to
inhabit two bodies overstresses the soul and it is destroyed, killing at
least the "parent" if not also the clone.

This second possibility creates huge problems. Does each half of the soul
represent half of the Essence? What if the clone was originally a
cybermonster with .01 Essence? What happens then? And what is memory, is
it strictly a biological function of brain cells or is it linked somehow
with an abstract mind or soul? Would memories then be split also? Really
split personalities?

>At least in theory...how's that for a thought???

It's fine up to a point. And it works up to a point. But in the end, it
simply doesn't work for me since I would argue that a soul (in SR) is
necessary for life and that a soul can't be torn apart without destroying
it. Which means that it can't work.

It is a different idea though, and one that displays a thinking "outside of
the box" to use the corporate phrase.

Erik J.

Fight the Future on June 19th!


"Oh my God, they killed Dunkelzahn! You bastards!!!"
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 19:52:29 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: MysticPunk/SpacePunk

On Wed, 20 May 1998 19:56:29 EDT DisnyShamn <DisnyShamn@***.COM> writes:
>DGhost writes:
>
>[Far-future fantasy idea]
>> This is a really wierd idea, I know... but I think it might be fun to
>> play in this world every once in a while... whadya think?
>
> I think it sounds cool, had the idea for this once myself, with the
alteration that different planets would have different levels of mana,
depending on how old and how dense their population. Thing with my idea
was, there was a balancing act; older, bigger worlds are cool for
magicians because of the high magic, but let them get TOO mystically
potent
>and the veil wears thin and the horrors break through (Earth's not
>exactly a fun town anymore).
>
> This actually brings me to my current campaign; having begun a
>Shatterzone campaign (Space-Opera SF game) a year or two ago, I started
>trying to convert SR Matrix 2.0 rules to it (In Shatterzone, you use
your
>real-world skill in the net 96 you can fight IC with Fire Combat,
>Energy Weapons or Unarmed Combat skills... I just couldn't agree). That
>proved so difficult I just decided to convert the whole thing to SRII.
So
>far, four or five successful sessions, going strong.
>
> Anyway, anyone else out there whose done far-future stuff with SR
>have any advice? I've come up with rules for energy weapon (blasters,
sonics
>, various lasers...), ships, psionics (NOT a variation on magic, either
>; converted 'em from GURPS. If anything, they seem to work better with
>SR, go figure), but I'm always looking for more...
>
>- Disney Shaman

You've got = all over your post... what is it? Html? Cut it out,
please :)

Now, about the rest of your post ... Sounds cool ... never played
Shatterzone tho ... I considered converting SpaceMaster but it was way
too much work :) BTW, on a side note: The Cyberware rules from
Cyberspace when ported to standard RoleMaster and SpaceMaster means that
Cyberware only affects the casting of Essence magic but not the casting
of Mentalism and Channeling Magic, nor the use of Psionics... For space
travel, I think the Star Wars system would be easiest to convert :)

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)

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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 21:29:51 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: DreamTime (somewhat long)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Max Rible escreveu:
>
>
> This is only if you rule that dreams show up at the sensory level at
> which you record simsense. I'm fairly sure that if you could record
> dreams, you could record any piece of visual imagination-- you could
> have cameras that record things seen only in the mind's eye! I would
> rule that a simsense recording of someone dreaming would get the
> physical sensations of lying there with your eyes closed and the
> emotional states from the dream, but the actual imagery would be
> absent.
>


Usual simsense doesn't even get emotions, only sensory input (sight,
hearing, taste, smell and touch). The equipment to "record" the chemical
changes in the brain must be really illegal...

Ubiratan
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 21:51:19 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Granite's T-Shirt Idea
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Okay folks, I got the initial page of this up for all to see. A Word of
advice, if you are able, set your display's to full SVGA scale (1024 x 768),
as then you will be able to see the -whole- thing.

I -REALLY- like this one, but other images might do good as well. I remember
some of the stick figures, so I may look into those as I go as well.

But for now, Granite's Page is up...email link to him and just about everyone
knows how to reach me.

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 21:58:42 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: An Ooops to Granite
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I forgot something...the link to the T-Shirt Page is available via Hoosier
Hacker House which is at ...

http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/intro.htm

For those of you that simply don't want to see the neat rotating sign or
really check Mike, mine own, and other's stuff out, the direct link is ...

http://members.aol.com/ereskanti/gam/rnshrts.htm

IIRC of course :)

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 22:01:58 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Giving blood in 205X: common or rare?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 5/20/98 7:05:16 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR writes:

> I think they really do thid in SR... In Shadowtech, KAM says
> something about
> a "host body" for growing bioware and spare organs. Could be a brain
> dead person,
> or some altered egg designed to become a great mass of "generic" cells
> (not from
> a specific organ). Then they's make some of those cells transform into
> the organ or
> piece of bioware as needed. Howz that?
>
Actually, thanks Ubir (I -HAD- to shorten his name to this, sorry folks ;), I
knew I had read this actually in a SR book somewhere.

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 22:06:04 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Petrolias on the map
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 5/20/98 7:23:42 PM US Eastern Standard Time, erikj@****.COM
writes:

> Hey, wait a minute <light bulb?> When is Halley's Comet supposed to come
> back around? This eruption happens, what Oct. 3, 2060, or there abouts,
> right? And since I haven't read the will in a while, I'll have to trust
> you about the vaccine date (I remember the item, just not the date.)

Actually, it's in 2062, so we have to wait just a bit longer... (oh, the
misery of it all ;)

> If Halley's Comet is supposed to arrived during that same time frame, I
> think we've found our "Night of the Comet" plotline that has been rumored.

Nope, but damn I am looking forward to prying around for that information.

> Of course, I could be totally wrong on this, since I have no real dates in
> front of me. Someone want to check into this? I suspect I'm wrong, but
> it's an interesting idea, yes?

Yes, on both accounts }p Well, maybe not -both- =)

> >Also, if particularly useful materials (say, component elements to
airplane
> >alloys and/or other composities) were found, then Federated Boeing would
be
> >effectively be given a massive level of resources to draw upon for a lot
of
> >their toys.
>
> Almost guaranteed. This event alone could possibly draw them up to the AAA
> tier, or maybe not. But it clearly would give them extra ammunition.

If not them, IF, they join the PPG, then it would give -them- the resources to
look the other major forces straight in the face and say "Hey, I don't take
nothing from no girl...." (laughter)

> >I think we aren't going to get any major answers of this type until the
new
> >"Corporate Rundown" (or whatever the name is) comes out.
>
> Possible. The Corporate Download book I think is focusing in on the Big
> 10, and depending on how much attention is paid to the Pacific Prosperity
> Group, an answer of some sort might be forthcoming. But we'll have to wait
> until December/January for this though...

Just remember, that two members of the PPG are also "Big 10" types...

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 22:10:13 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Fully Active Aura Cloning
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In a message dated 5/20/98 8:03:11 PM US Eastern Standard Time, erikj@****.COM
writes:

> Anyway, how can you clone a soul? Even using your procedure, I don't see
> how it could happen. I'd argue that nothing would happen. But it is
> possible (though perhaps not probable) that the soul could be forced to
> split, half of the soul staying in the original body and half going to
> inhabit the clone body. Or the stresses of being split or trying to
> inhabit two bodies overstresses the soul and it is destroyed, killing at
> least the "parent" if not also the clone.
>
Okay, I'm just leaping in on this one point. Remember Aztlan??? There is an
old parable about "Smoking Mirrors" and their entire religious discourse. It
is the basis for the now going on 10 month PBEM (whew, and they are finally
getting into the lab area) that I'm running. There is also a thought about
"attracting alternate beings", as in, "X" being is the original from
-this-
dimension, while "Y" being is from -that- dimension. They are each other's
"Mirror Selves" as it were.

Basically, I am looking at this from a potential plot-point POV....

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 22:18:44 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jessica Grota <grota@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Magic (Your gonna hate this one ...[well maybe :) ])
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Ereskanti wrote:
>
> In a message dated 5/20/98 3:18:31 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> runefo@***.UIO.NO writes:
>
> > Hey! Why isn't there a flaw for 'ritual sample in enemy's posession'
> > ?
> > -
> There is, it's called "Limited Time"... ;}
>
> -K


Ha! I like that. That adds to the old standard advice: Watch your back.
Shoot straight. Never let the dragon deal. And watch where you bleed.

--Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:24:45 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Quantum <a.hides@*******.QUT.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Giving blood in 205X: common or rare
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980520101323.006ac03c@****.mhnet.fr>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

danyel woods wrote:
>----------
>| Having submitted to the Red Cross and their needles last Thursday for
>| the public good (and it didn't hurt a bit!), I was paging through Aztlan
>| and met the Blood Magic section, which got me thinking.
>|
>| In our modern world, giving blood is no big deal; as long as there's no
>| risk of infection or you're not a haemophiliac, it's not a danger. In
>| Shadowrun, though, a blood sample can be used for ritual sendings, blood
>| magic, and lots of other creative nastiness. Given this, would people
>| would actually give blood (whether to a corporate or public
>| health-provider)? What would it say about those people? What sort of
>| psychological/sociological issues would this produce - e.g., would it
>| become a litmus test, like abortion/affirmative action/gun-control?

Ok, I can see the problems involved here, and I agree with what a lot of
people have aleady said about most of the blood being produced
artificially - however, having said that, does the common denizen of
ShadowRun times really know that much about ritual magic?

Which leads to another interesting question - is there still a public
health service run by the governmenbt, or has it been taken over by a corp
- like Lone Star?

Quantum
-----------------------------
The statement below is true
The statement above is false
-----------------------------
hidesy@***.brisnet.org.au
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:31:44 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Quantum <a.hides@*******.QUT.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Insect spirits
In-Reply-To: <199805140321.VAA03643@******.carl.org>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

>Once upon a time BigDaddy wrote:

> / I need a bug thats not the typical grind the runner into dust and infest
> / him and his whole family without batting an eye. I need a bug thats got
> / a sense of honor or code or something along those line. Any ideas?

What about a hornet? They aren't big nasty critters - if you leave them
alone they'll leave you alone. Not only that but many of the PCs would
think it was a wasp and be terrified :)

Quantum
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+==+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
The person who says it cannot be done
should never interupt the one who is doing it
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+==+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
hidesy@***.brisnet.org.au
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:37:53 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Quantum <a.hides@*******.QUT.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: [OT] Sideways Smileys
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980514025132.2abfa120@*****.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> At 01:26 AM 5/15/98 -0500, Alfredo B Alves wrote these timeless words:
>
> >BTW, I realized I was online too much when I saw a smilee shirt and
> >thought it was wwierd that the smilee was side-ways...
> >
> Hehe... I realized it when I was writing an essay for my finals a couple
> months ago and actually wrote in a couple of Bull Smiley Emoticons... Then
> realized how awkward those look when Written :]
>
> We need lives :]
>
> Bull

Ahhh... one of the coolest things that microsoft ever did (hmmm were there
others?) was to change :) into a real (read as right side up) smiley face
in Word - now even non computer literate people can understand me when I
type out letters :)

Quantum
========================================
he who can does - he who can't cheats :)
========================================
hidesy@***.brisnet.org.au
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 21:51:38 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Troll Clones

On Wed, 20 May 1998 20:22:16 EDT DisnyShamn <DisnyShamn@***.COM> writes:
>> now just outta curiosity. is it easier to clone a human than lets
>say a
>troll?
>> well if it isnt picture this:
>
>I'd think it would take longer, just as gestation does for trolls, and
>it'd
>take more nutrients. There's simply more physical mass to grow.
>
>Hmm... but MAINTAINING such a body might be a bit cheaper; larger
>beings using
>up less resources (nutrients & oxygen) for their mass.
>
>- Disney Shaman

Actually (Average) Gestation for a Troll is 259 days compared to 266.6
for humans, 284 for dwarfs, 360 for elves, and 187 for Orks .. (See pages
36-38, last lines of the Habits for each race)

Orks and Trolls give you a lot more BANG for your buck :)

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 23:02:38 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx3 <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: DreamTime (somewhat long)
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In a message dated 98-05-20 18:26:41 EDT, you write:

<< With many people equipped with cyberware such as simsense recording
rigs, It's just a matter of time that one think of recording their sense
accounts of their entire night's sleep (provided they can find that much MPs
on a computer nearby and can connect their simsense rig to it). >>

The problem with this theory is that dreams aren't really the sequential
events you experience every night... they're random firings of you brain,
which other parts of your brain attempt to interpret, thus causing the stories
you experience. That's part of why dreams are considered so important in
analysis: the interpretting is done in part by the parts of the brain we
normally can't access, so they represent the collated information combined
with things that slip under your a priori thoughts.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 23:16:25 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx3 <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Teleporation
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See imbedded


In a message dated 98-05-20 19:18:25 EDT, you write:

<< You know, I can't recall if the GGD used mundanes or not. Could we get
some sort of reference on this from someone, preferably with page numbers
please?>>

I assumed it did use mundanes. If they were measuring drain in bodies, it
would have only been a couple of times before their populations of capable
magicians (including full, sorcerors, and shamanic adepts with the right
totems... and what category would the GGD fall into, anyway?)

<<Anyway, I suppose what you are talking about is possible, as long as the
"biotools" aren't just algae or something; I would think that they would
have to be alive *and* sentient, not just have biomass.>>

I don't think they'd have to be sentient, necessarily... certainly higher up
on a theoretical food chain than algae... perhaps a variation on a mammal
form, like squirrels, with certain genetically coded responses.

<<Actually <light bulb!> what you propose is essentially a form of Blood
Magic. Blood Magic actually has little to do with actually shedding blood
and is more of a process in which life, or Essence, is stolen from the
victim to power magic.>>

Yes, it is a kind of blood magic, just like the GGD. Since we all know who
has the most modern experience with blood magic, who wants a group of Jaguar
gaurds popping into their doss late one night without warning?

Nexx
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 13:21:23 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Teleporation
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Nexx writes:
><< You know, I can't recall if the GGD used mundanes or not. Could we get
> some sort of reference on this from someone, preferably with page numbers
> please?>>
>
>I assumed it did use mundanes. If they were measuring drain in bodies, it
>would have only been a couple of times before their populations of capable
>magicians (including full, sorcerors, and shamanic adepts with the right
>totems... and what category would the GGD fall into, anyway?)


It is explicitly mentioned that anyone can dance the Dance, as long as there
is a shaman to control the power. The GGD was a form of blood magic, with
people voluntarily giving up their life force to power the ritual. Mundanes
can do that as well as magicians.

I have a feeling that the blood magic in the GGD was a little more pure than
the Aztlan blood magic, due to the voluntary nature of the sacrifice. Still
caused the huge mana spike, though.

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 23:27:44 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx3 <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Magic
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In a message dated 98-05-20 20:14:44 EDT, you write:

<< IF you could clone someone for the body of an Ally spirit (Which I would
allow...), then IMO, the cyber & bio would be useless ... The Alley is
basically a flesh golem with some metal / plastic parts :) If that body
had limb replacements, the ally could animate it as normal but it is
animating it not "using" it ... >>

Actually, since the host is technically alive, only unconscious (just like
Gerald Ford), all of the bioware would work. They still need to breathe and
eat... they just don't age and are unusually powerful (gotta love adding force
to all of the host's physical atttributes, neh?).

Incidentally, if such an ally were to ever go free, he could make a shitload
of money as a runner... dual natured, sorceror (can inhabiting allies
astrally project?) who is as strong as a troll? You can bet he'd get paid
quite a bit.

Nexx
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 22:26:55 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Ashe <wmashe@***.NET>
Subject: I'm back
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hi all you happy people; It's been a good year and a half since I was on
the list. To sum up: I'm graduated, got a real job, got a house, spend all
of my money on house payments, and student loan payments. To sum up I'm as
poor now as I was when I was in school.

Also I'm using Outlook Express and I *think* that I've got it setup to send
just plain text without HTML hooey or any Winmail.dat bullshit. If I'm
wrong and I'm spewing Gatesian Crap at the list, let me know, and I'll make
sure that it doesn't happen again.

My Shadowrun web site is http://freeweb.pdq.net/wmashe/shadowrun.html come
check out my fiction section.

Also if anyone in the Houston Tx area wants to start a game IRL (I've got
enough PBeM's going), or has space in a game for me let me know. I can
either play or GM (hopefully do both).

Regards
Bright-Light (aka Bill)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 23:42:37 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx3 <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Giving blood in 205X: common or rare?
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 98-05-20 22:03:12 EDT, you write:

<snip about host bodies being brain dead patients>

<< Actually, thanks Ubir (I -HAD- to shorten his name to this, sorry folks
;), I
knew I had read this actually in a SR book somewhere. >>

Unfortunately, its wrong. She said they have to grow the entire body, not
just have someone else grow it for them. There isn't a human alive who can
regrow an eye for you
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 23:46:43 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Graelorn <Graelorn@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Just thought I'd say hello
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Gurth typed:
>If it's still available, you could download the first issue of The
>Shadowrun Supplemental (Adam will probably give you the >address

I found this late last night actually. But thanks anyway.

>Not really; IIRC FASA has said they aren't going to do a Japan >sourcebook
>any time soon. I believe it's mainly because they like locals to write
>location sourcebooks.

That stinks. Japan seems to be such a big influence on the setting and yet
we still havent seen anything official yet. Oh, well.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 23:47:41 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx3 <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Sideways Smileys
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 98-05-20 22:38:55 EDT, you write:

<<Hehe... I realized it when I was writing an essay for my finals a couple
months ago and actually wrote in a couple of Bull Smiley Emoticons... Then
realized how awkward those look when Written :]
We need lives :] >>

Ever catch yourself signing your net-name to a check? For some reason, I
don't think the credit union is going to take a check signed by Nexx...

Nexx
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 23:59:08 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Teleporation
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Once upon a time, Robert Watkins wrote;

>It is explicitly mentioned that anyone can dance the Dance, as long as there
>is a shaman to control the power. The GGD was a form of blood magic, with
>people voluntarily giving up their life force to power the ritual. Mundanes
>can do that as well as magicians.
>
>I have a feeling that the blood magic in the GGD was a little more pure than
>the Aztlan blood magic, due to the voluntary nature of the sacrifice. Still
>caused the huge mana spike, though.

The difference between Blood Magic and Life Magic, neh.

Find Your Own Truth had a smaller Ghost Dance in it. And yes the
sacrifice was voluntary or it wouldn't work.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 00:09:31 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Prometheus Unbound
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

You guys are still operating on the principle that everything is
possible with magic. That was same type of line used with nuclear power
and how many of those promises did it live up to? I completely believe
that magic has its limitations just like the mundane world has its. So
far that has been more the case than not in Shadowrun.
And no, I don't deal with home-spun traditions because they can lead
to the severe breaking of "game laws" worse than the original rules
bending implied. And the ability of game bending should lie with the GM,
never a PC.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

"When _I_ use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful
tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."
-Through the Looking Glass

I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 23:16:52 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Sideways Smileys

On Wed, 20 May 1998 23:47:41 EDT Nexx3 <Nexx3@***.COM> writes:
>In a message dated 98-05-20 22:38:55 EDT, you write:
><<Hehe... I realized it when I was writing an essay for my finals a
couple
>months ago and actually wrote in a couple of Bull Smiley Emoticons...
Then
>realized how awkward those look when Written :]
>We need lives :] >>

>Ever catch yourself signing your net-name to a check? For some reason,
I
>don't think the credit union is going to take a check signed by Nexx...
>
>Nexx

Haven't done that, but I do find that a disturbing lot of the time, I
think /me instead of I (ie normal peeps say "I have to do this today", I
think "/me has to do this today") oh well...

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)
/eat
/eat
/eat
"Hey ... How come my /alias for eating won't work?"

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 00:48:45 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Magic
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 5/20/98 10:28:47 PM US Eastern Standard Time, Nexx3@***.COM
writes:

> Incidentally, if such an ally were to ever go free, he could make a shitload
> of money as a runner... dual natured, sorceror (can inhabiting allies
> astrally project?) who is as strong as a troll? You can bet he'd get paid
> quite a bit.
>
What an interesting concept you have there guy. I think I've got a -REALLY-
nasty idea now...thanks.

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 00:50:43 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Prometheus Unbound
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 5/20/98 11:11:27 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
mc23@**********.COM writes:

> And no, I don't deal with home-spun traditions because they can lead
> to the severe breaking of "game laws" worse than the original rules
> bending implied. And the ability of game bending should lie with the GM,
> never a PC.
>
Ah, I see...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 01:07:56 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: BigDaddy <bigdaddy@*****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Godzilla totally [OT]
Comments: To: cos@*****.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

To all who have seen and wasted their money on Godzilla i must
apologize. Tonite I am going way beyond OT I need to tell ya'll about
Godzilla. Yes some folks have said "it rocks" or "it's awesome". But
down here in Florida we tell it like it is. Now on with the
"non-spoiled" overview.


Godzilla=garbage. The money they spent on specail effects and actors
was well worth ooghhhhhh about .01$. Take this for example Matthew
Broderick in my opinion was a good actor. Hell Ferris is an idol of
truants like myself. Now if and when a 500ft tall monster attacks me,
or perhaps chases me, will i remain calm and talk in an even tone????
The answer is no hell no and no way no! His girlfriend, some actress
who's been in B movies for sure, was the typical bubblehead bleach blond
actress with the cheesy lines who screams at the right time and stands
there looking half-baked when lil-zillas come marching at her! What you
say impossible! Nope i'd say go see it for yourself but hey dont waste
the money!

Special effects=Ripped off. Yes ladies and gentlemen the last two hot
sellers of Memorial day have been rolled into one. Take the power and
intrigue of the aliens with their abilities from Independence Day, and
the size, movement, and speed of the raptors, hell the t-rex of Jurassic
Park and WHAM! Godzilla is born. The graphics are good, fluent and
wonderful yes. But poorly replicated and ripped off from the 2 other
movies. Ohh i can go on but for those die hards who want to see the
movie ill stop, buuuut for those who have seen it..... SPOILER TIME!


I
N
T
E
N
S
E

S
P
O
I
L
E
R
Ok folks what the hell was it with 200 damn lizards???? They looked like
friggin raptors, moved like raptors, ate like raptors, I though Jurassic
Park 3 was back!!??!!! Furthermore, How can 1 thats right 1 damn
lizzard lay 200 eggs. Even mutated that sucker shouldn't have been able
to do it. Oh and all that fish with 200 lizzards, gone in less time than
it should have taken to eat it all! Godzilla's death, both of em.

1. Getting hit by those torpedeos only stunned em. Well we didnt find
that out until too late now! No damage at all. But in the end 12 missles
hitting dead on when 1 billion tons of ammo couldnt crack a dent. Gimme
a break!

2. All 8 billion lil-zillas were in the lobby of the garden. All they
had to do was walk out the doors that were ooohhhh so conviently
unlocked, and easily opened. What did they do. STAND THERE AT LOOK AT
EACH OTHER FUNNY!!!!!!! ARRRGGGHHH!!!

3. ONE GODDAMN EGG SURVIVED ONE FUCKING EGG WAS LEFT!!!! WHY???!!!!!!

4. 2HRS of chasing one big t-rex! I can watch JP for that amount of time
and get the same resault!!!!!!

ok enough i'm giving myself a coronary right now. my veins are popping
outta my head. So i'm ending it here. If anyone else wants to comment,
rant, rave, flame, w/e go right ahead. This movie sucked to high heaven
and i'll be damn sure i'll tell everyone why!


p.s why the hell did he finnally breath fire at the end and not
before???????????!!!!


--
Napalm Sticks to Kidz,
BigDaddy
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 01:46:44 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Godzilla totally [OT]
Mime-Version: 1.0
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<snipped BigDaddy's Rant and Rave>

I take it that means you didn't like it?

Too bad, so sad. It was time for the Big Guy to have a face lift. some of
your comments were on the mark, some of them were more off it than anyone
could care.

-K (standing there with simple answers to all of BigDaddy's questions...all of
'em green, all of 'em usable, all of 'spendable>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 02:07:40 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Airwasp <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztech Armoured Troopers
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 5/20/98 5:43:48 AM !!!First Boot!!!, Ereskanti@***.COM
writes:

> > I'd imagine this would probably fit in under a large walker drone or
> > something similar from R2. I'd have to think that a similar frame would
> be
> > enough to pack all the nasties you'd want. Keith? I know you and Mike
> > know R2 backwards and forwards (too many numbers for me), got any ideas?
>
> I know that Mike has worked up stuff similar to this. Mike, do you still
> have
> that -thing- you sicked on Webster and the guys back when we were in
> Redmond(???)

What thing I sicced on the guys and Webster in Redmond, the only thing I
remember is the big robot in mil-spec which Tinsmith had under his control.
This one ?

Care to refresh my memory Keith ?

Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 02:16:21 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Airwasp <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztech Armoured Troopers
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 5/20/98 5:43:48 AM !!!First Boot!!!, Ereskanti@***.COM
writes:

> > I'd imagine this would probably fit in under a large walker drone or
> > something similar from R2. I'd have to think that a similar frame would
> be
> > enough to pack all the nasties you'd want. Keith? I know you and Mike
> > know R2 backwards and forwards (too many numbers for me), got any ideas?
>
> I know that Mike has worked up stuff similar to this. Mike, do you still
> have
> that -thing- you sicked on Webster and the guys back when we were in
> Redmond(???)

Frag it, I remember the thing now.

LoneStar had been developing a walker drone which they could use in bad areas
to act as a sort of police enforcer and cleaning out the trash.

I'll figure something out later today and make it available to everyone as a
download.

Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 02:46:42 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Airwasp <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Insect spirits
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 5/21/98 2:32:33 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
a.hides@*******.QUT.EDU.AU writes:

> > / I need a bug thats not the typical grind the runner into dust and infest
> > / him and his whole family without batting an eye. I need a bug thats
got
> > / a sense of honor or code or something along those line. Any ideas?
>
> What about a hornet? They aren't big nasty critters - if you leave them
> alone they'll leave you alone. Not only that but many of the PCs would
> think it was a wasp and be terrified :)

- Or - how about any insect spirit which has the mentality of it's original
host in complete form and free from the controlling influence of the queen or
mother spirit or shaman. This would be a wonderful twist, in this case, the
host achieved so many successes, that the host maintained control of
themselves and did not fall under the whims of the queen or whatever.

Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 01:00:21 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: I'm back
In-Reply-To: <001a01bd8479$12b36d60$0ee290d1@*******>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 22:26 20/05/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi all you happy people; It's been a good year and a half since I was on
>the list.

That long? Wow.. Welcome back! :)

>To sum up: I'm graduated, got a real job, got a house, spend all
>of my money on house payments, and student loan payments. To sum up I'm as
>poor now as I was when I was in school.

One reason why I don't think I'm going to take further schooling :)

>Also I'm using Outlook Express and I *think* that I've got it setup to send
>just plain text without HTML hooey or any Winmail.dat bullshit. If I'm
>wrong and I'm spewing Gatesian Crap at the list, let me know, and I'll make
>sure that it doesn't happen again.

Looks fine to me :)

>Also if anyone in the Houston Tx area wants to start a game IRL (I've got
>enough PBeM's going), or has space in a game for me let me know. I can
>either play or GM (hopefully do both).

I have some friends who are moving back to that area this summer. I'll let
you know later... >:)

-Adam
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 03:31:16 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jessica Grota <grota@*********.COM>
Subject: (ot) Insect spirits living in my bathroom (was: insect spirits)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Quantum wrote:
>
> >Once upon a time BigDaddy wrote:
>
> > / I need a bug thats not the typical grind the runner into dust and infest
> > / him and his whole family without batting an eye. I need a bug thats got
> > / a sense of honor or code or something along those line. Any ideas?
>
> What about a hornet? They aren't big nasty critters - if you leave them
> alone they'll leave you alone. Not only that but many of the PCs would
> think it was a wasp and be terrified :)
>
> Quantum



I beg to differ! Hornets are ornery buggers. I've been holding the
homefront against them for a couple weeks now: they're all over my
house, in my yard, etc. I've seen them attack and kill bumblebees for
wandering too close to their hive. The scary thing is, they don't lose
their stingers, so they can sting again and again. And they tend to gang
up, of course. MEAN suckers. I just HAVE to share this, since it just
happened before I logged on and checked my mail...try to picture this,
if you will.

I'm taking a bath. I lean back to rinse my hair, and I see a hornet
crawling up the wall. ABout two inches long, I kid you not. So of
course, I freak out and look around for something to kill it with. I
pass over several items, cause I'm afraid if I don't kill it on the
first hit, I'll be in a world of hurt. So I grab a flat wooden-backed
bath brush, and sit there, in the tub, trying to get up the cojones to
hit the thing. After about 5 minutes of sitting there with the brush in
midair, I finally whack it. Of course, it falls into the bathtub with
me, at which point I promptly scream and try to hide in the farthest
three square inches of the tub. All the swirling water from my fleeing
sweeps the thing within, like, two inches of me, and I'm trying to get
away from it since it's still moving, even though I'm already backed up
against the wall. I grab the brush and sweep the hornet onto the floor,
where I promptly bludgeon it with a shampoo bottle.

Yeah, okay, so in case you couldn't tell I'm afraid of bugs. But at
least I do my best to make sure that bugs are scared of me, too.

--Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 10:36:52 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: [OT] Sideways Smileys
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.93.980521123449.14899C-100000@*******.qut.edu.au>
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Quantum said on 12:37/21 May 98...

> Ahhh... one of the coolest things that microsoft ever did (hmmm were there
> others?) was to change :) into a real (read as right side up) smiley face
> in Word - now even non computer literate people can understand me when I
> type out letters :)

That was I believe the first thing I took OUT of the auto-correction
feature in Word 95 and 97... If I type a smiley, I _want_ a sideways one,
not one of those T-shirt/sticker/acid house smileys from WingDings. For
those, it's easy enough to go to add it as a symbol in the text...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
En ik zal het heen twee keer zehhen.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 10:36:51 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Skillz to pay the billz
In-Reply-To: <19980520.134618.11990.8.dghost@****.com>
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Alfredo B Alves said on 13:46/20 May 98...

> I want to make sure I've got this right ...
>
> Bob spends 4 "points" nprmally, he could get:
> Computer at 4;
> Computer at 3, Software at 5; or
> Computer at 2, Software at 4, Matrix Software at 6.
>
> With your system Bob could get:
> Computer at 3;
> Computer at 2, Software at 4; or
> Computer at 1, Software at 3, Matrix Software at 5.
>
> right?

Yes, that's the way I intended it, but I said it in less words. Basically
it means you get less points if you want to be good at everything.

> BTW, what happens if Concentration or Specialization would reduce the
> general skill to 0? (ie Bob spends 2 "points" in firearms and
> specializes in Colt Manhunter... would he have [Using the standard
> system, not Gurth's] a firearms general skill of 1 or 0?)

Skills don't go below 1, so Bob would roll 1 die for firing most weapons.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
En ik zal het heen twee keer zehhen.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 10:36:52 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Pool Use (was; Summer Time)
In-Reply-To: <35634EC5.6E65@**********.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Wafflemeisters said on 16:44/20 May 98...

> Ideally, If you used two or more pools, each would be reduced by the
> same fraction as the other, as you only have so much attention to spread
> around, IMO. This is not at all practical, but is a good "base
> concept", I think.

It makes for a lot of bookkeeping -- remembering how many dice have been
used and from which pool, so the others can go down accordingly -- but in
theory this would be the best solution to keep characters from using all
the dice from all their pools.

> A simpler mechanic would be that any dice used in one pool that do not
> exceed those in another pool come out of both pools. Sound complex, but
> is actually simple; If you have 8 combat and 5 magic, and use 3 magic,
> combat goes down by 3. If you then use 3 combat, magic does not go
> down, as combat is 5, magic 2- both go to 2. If you then use 2 from
> EITHER, both are gone.

IMHO it would be better here to simply make all pools go down by the same
amount, which can take them to 0 but not below. This reduces bookkeeping
again, because you don't have to remember which pools to reduce -- they
all do. The pool actually in use would determine how many dice are
available, of course.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
En ik zal het heen twee keer zehhen.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 10:36:52 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Weird Campaigns
In-Reply-To: <8c8e6dce.356371fd@***.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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DisnyShamn said on 20:14/20 May 98...

> I seem to recall a reference in VR2 to systems remaining "alert" for awhile
> after a decker has logged off. This would necessitate some sort of globalness
> of security tally. I'd suggest a compromise;
[snip]

Partly related to this, I thought about security tallies about a week ago,
and it suddenly dawned on me that it should be possible to erase or
inflate them... After all, it's just data kept on a computer somewhere, so
the decker should be able to in- or decrease the counter. However, looking
through VR 2.0 I couldn't find a system operation that allows this...

The way to go about this would, I guess, be to do a Locate File to find
the file (or memory address) containing the security tallies, and then an
Edit File operation to change them. If you do a Validate Passcode or
Invalidate Passcode before this, you should be able to erase your security
tally and appear a completely legitimate user, or do the opposite for
security deckers.

However, I think there'd be some protection built into the system, for
example that only supervisor-level users can alter security tallies. Any
thoughts?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
En ik zal het heen twee keer zehhen.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 04:45:52 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Craig J Wilhelm Jr <craigjwjr@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: (ot) Insect spirits living in my bathroom (was: insect
spirits)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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>> What about a hornet? They aren't big nasty critters - if you leave them
>> alone they'll leave you alone. Not only that but many of the PCs would
>> think it was a wasp and be terrified :)

>I beg to differ!

Me too!

>Hornets are ornery buggers. I've been holding the
>homefront against them for a couple weeks now: they're all over my
>house, in my yard, etc.

Call an exterminator pronto! Never try to take out their hive on your
own. Since they're all armed and likely smarter than all of us, they will
open up a can 'o wh00p ass and pour that noise all over you...

>I've seen them attack and kill bumblebees

...and dogs and cats and horses and cows and people... (Oh my!)

>The scary thing is, they don't lose
>their stingers, so they can sting again and again.


Which is usually what they do... I got scars all over my back and
shoulders to remind me to be a lot more careful next time I re-roof my
house...

Craig "Knee Deep in the Blood of Swine" Wilhelm
Inside every living human being,
there's a dead one waiting to come out.
UIN: 1864690
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 05:40:13 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Giving blood in 205X: common or rare?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
> Re: Giving blood in 205X: common or rare? (Cobra , Wed 5:12)

> The sterilize spell awakens some questions :
> 1/ Is the blood (we'll consider in the same group) of a mundane the same as
> an awakened ?

Pretty much, as far as "compatability" goes. "Forensic
samples" have
to be collected quickly for those with low essence (accidentally spilt
blood can only be collected for ritual sorcey within essence hours of
the spilling, IIRC, making a low essence NICE sometimes)

> 2/ If so, would a sterilize spell modify the sample in a way that it no
> longer works with a mage ?

It won't work for ANYBODY. Sterilize kills single cell organisms, whic
would include blood cells not inside a living body. Dead blood is
pretty useless for treatment purposes- it would be like autoclaving you
blood supply!

> 3/ Did anyone ever think about the proportion of mages at DocWagon. I
> always wondered why there's no price for magical healing in SR2 or NAGtRL.
> Typically, I would apply a multiplier of... Let's say 5 or 10.

Its pretty much GM discretion. SR1 had prices, I think. Those you
give sound OK, if you mean "magical healing", the +2 healing roll
modifier. I don't think treating a mage with low-impact drugs costs
extra. Heal and Treat spells would be a one time cost- basing them off
the doctors service cost might work; I'd charge that cost per die rolled
for the spell, if the hospital was purely "for profit", like DocWagon.
Or the spellcasting might be included FREE, the result of some
philantropic bear / snake shaman groups work; either might ask for other
"considerations"....

-Mongoose X
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 05:40:41 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Giving blood in 205X: common or rare?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Re: Giving blood in 205X: common or rare?
>
> In a message dated 5/20/98 9:08:46 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
> wgallas@*****.FR writes:
>
> > >Ah Hell, that is -really- easy. AoE Ritual Magic using Mental
> Manipulations
> > >like "Mob Mood" or "Mob Mind". Create/Design specific
variations on a
> > theme
> > >such as "Mob Suggestion" or "Mob Dream Insinuation".
Place all samples
> > within
> > >the ritual that is being performed and cast away.
> >

The problem is, you must form a link with each sample (or use a
spotter), and do a sending test for each sample. That done, you might
be able to catch the ones those stages work on with one AE spell, or
just a split spellcasting.

> > I thought about something like this but I'm not sure you can already use
> > multiple samples in a ritual... Perhaps it would require some magical
> > research from the corp.

I don't think you can, normally.
Doing so would be a totally non-standard varieation on ritual magic,
but not one that is out of line, considering "split spellcasting".
Throwing only 1 die at each sample for thenon-spellcastingstages of
ritual sorcery would miss a lot of links and sendings, but would allow a
large number of samples, enough to make it worth while, especially if
the ritual leader could re-roll those tests with karma. The ritul team
would likely be so big it would just be easier to have each mage work
alone, though.

-Mongoose X
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 05:41:15 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Ritual magic
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Re: Ritual magic (SThanatos , Wed 18:34)
>
> Can't one use ritual magic to increase the area of effect of a spell?
> I.E.: A group of mages casting Chaotic World over a whole building or a
> floor of a building by ritual magic, where it would just be impossible with
> one set of dice.

You can increase the area radius as with any normal casting, by
sacrificing succeses for that purpose. Since you can (theoretically)
have more dice for a ritual spell test, you could get a bigger effect,
yes. You also would not have to worry about getting CAUGHT in the
effect :)

-Mongoose X
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 05:41:38 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Giving blood in 205X: common or rare
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
> Re: Giving blood in 205X: common or rare (Quantum , Wed 21:24)

> Ok, I can see the problems involved here, and I agree with what a lot of
> people have aleady said about most of the blood being produced
> artificially - however, having said that, does the common denizen of
> ShadowRun times really know that much about ritual magic?
>

Actually, one thing nobody has mentioned is P4MO, whic would fill most
of the demand for blood (it was DESIGNED as a synthetic blood
replacement) in many situations- surgery and trauma treatment are the #1
blood consumers, AFAIK, and its OK for both those situations, where
supplieing oxegen is more important than plasma related factors.
Also, alternate therapies would reduce demand by persons such as
hemophilics.
I'd assume blood drives are a thing of the past.

As for common knowledge of ritual samples and sorcery, that would come
from movies and TV (Magic is a very popular plotelement). While such
info might be distorted, folks would be more likely to think a mage WAS
taking a ritual sample when he wasn't, than the other way around.

> Which leads to another interesting question - is there still a public
> health service run by the governmenbt, or has it been taken over by a corp
> - like Lone Star?
>

I think public hospitals are rare in the UCAS, but more common other
places, particularly nan and ex-nan nations. (including aztlan)
"Public" hospitalsmay well be privatized in many cases, jus as lone
starISthepolice, but also a private corporation. DocWagon often
holds"exclusive Contracts", IE, they are the ONLY providers of Emergency
Medical Response in an area. I imagine the Govt. allows this in return
for sweet deals on contracts, equipment, and garunteed area coverage.

-Mongoose X
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 05:41:01 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Astral Magic
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Re: Astral Magic (Ereskanti , Wed 17:50)

> Actually, you wouldn't have to go quite so far. How about a "MagSight"
Spell?
> We've done this before along the lines of "enhancing a particular sense"
> spell. Successes x force x 5 or x attribute as a measurement of
> "Magnification". Cast it on a particularly "friendly" power
site, and things
> can get -really- cool.

Yeah, you could see clear to Tau Ceti, and view all the wonderful
creatures there. If your REAL lucky, the vison will grant you the
insight needed to summon them...
[Power site friendly to (cthul)WHO??? :) ]

-Mongoose X
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 04:32:13 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Karl Low <kwil@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Weird Campaigns
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>


>However, I think there'd be some protection built into the system, for
>example that only supervisor-level users can alter security tallies. Any
>thoughts?


I'm probably way out of date here. (Only having the SR1BBB can do that to ya)
but I thought that's what happened when you entered the CPU.. once there the
whole system (including security stuff) is yours to monkey with.

However, I wouldn't doubt this has undergone massive changes with the VR books
and all..

-Karl




--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
En ik zal het heen twee keer zehhen.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 04:30:44 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Hacking Security Tallies (Was Re: Weird Campaigns)
In-Reply-To: <199805210835.KAA26554@*****.xs4all.nl>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 10:36 21/05/98 +0100, you wrote:

[Hacking Security Tallies]
>The way to go about this would, I guess, be to do a Locate File to find
>the file (or memory address) containing the security tallies, and then an
>Edit File operation to change them.

Memory address, almost certainly. Harder for the average person to mess
with and less likely to be a victim of a randomly-deleting-stuff-dork-hacker.

I don't have VR2 right here, but Locate Memory Address would probably be
much the same as Locate File.

>However, I think there'd be some protection built into the system, for
>example that only supervisor-level users can alter security tallies. Any
>thoughts?

I think it would be nice to have longer days and require less sleep. Oh!
Thoughts about this stuff! Well, it makes sense -- if the computer does
something, it has to be poking bytes somewhere, and a skilled "user" should
be able to manipulate those bytes.. and yes, modifying something like that
would obviously be superuser only -- that's the point of superusers, to fix
shit when users break it, right? :)

Back to the time thing, I really need some time to work on JIaFU.. :/

-Adam
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:37:25 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Astral Magic)
In-Reply-To: <19980520171444.20860.qmail@*******.com> from "Matthew
Waddilove"
at May 20, 98 10:14:44 am
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And verily, did Matthew Waddilove hastily scribble thusly...
|Do people think/know if that would be the case i.e. if the caster is
|standing in an area of normal magic and casts a spell into an area of
|abnormal magic (eg space) would the caster be effected as if they are
|standing in the area of abnormal magic?

I doubt it.
The spell becomes an entity in its own right, after all, so it's much more
likely that the spell will his a threshold point in the atmosphere where it
can no longer exist, and they go *poof*....

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:41:10 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Just thought I'd say hello
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980520151409.008768f0@****.lis.ab.ca> from "Adam
J"
at May 20, 98 03:14:09 pm
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And verily, did Adam J hastily scribble thusly...
|
|At 13:39 20/05/98 -0500, you wrote:
|
|>TSS (The Shadowrun Supplemental) Productions is at:
|>http://www.interware.it/users/adamj/
|
|*Beep* Wrong answer! The TSS in TSS Productions does not actually stand for
|The Shadowrun Supplemental. And only about 5 people know what it really
|does stand for :)
|
|And no, this isn't an invitation to start an OT thread guessing what it
|stands for.. :)

<Father Ted>
Ahhh, gowan... Gowan gowan gowan....
Gowan gowan GowangowanGowangowanGowangowanGO ON!

You know you want to....

:)

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 04:04:20 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matthew Waddilove <m_waddilove@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Petrolias on the map
Content-Type: text/plain

Ereskanti wrote
>
>In a message dated 5/20/98 4:30:40 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>aaa302@*****.ULAVAL.CA writes:
>
>> Now that we know the "how?", let's study the "why?"...
>
>Okay, Let's, this might help us here decide the course of the game..
>
>> Why would Dunkie give exploitation rights to an Island to
Federated-Boeing?
>>
>> answers:
>>
>> - Reinforce the fledgling Pacific Rim Co-prosperity group, soon to
be
>joined
>> by Federated-Boeing? (note: i don't have the BitB book nearby, so
i'm not
>> sure about the name, but I mean the group of second-rate corps that
are
>> forming a group around Wuxing to better compete with the other Big
10
>> corps);
>
>Name is "Pacific Prosperity Group" btw. Federated Boeing hasn't made a
>decision, as per the BitB text. However, it could swing either way
what
>effects this would have. Depending upon what exactly is unearthed
>(literally), this could become a very nasty place. Formerly rare
>minerals/materials might literally flow up, especially if a thermal
vein is
>disturbed beneath the strata in that vicinity.
>
>There is also something about a "vaccine" that is required to all kids
born
>after that time period, so I am loathe to consider what else is going
to be
>spewing up into the atmosphere (as if Mankind hadn't fu@*** things up
enough).
>
>Also, if particularly useful materials (say, component elements to
airplane
>alloys and/or other composities) were found, then Federated Boeing
would be
>effectively be given a massive level of resources to draw upon for a
lot of
>their toys.
>
>> - To spite Mitsuhama?
>
>Well, yeah, he could have wanted to do that too... ;)
>
>> - To help someone in Federated-Boeing, or Federated-Boeing (the
simplest
>> answer)?
>
>Oh yeah, this is definitely a thing. Big D seems to have had a very
large,
>but very personable, agenda he wanted to maintain, even after his
death.
>
>> what do you think?
>
>I think we aren't going to get any major answers of this type until the
new
>"Corporate Rundown" (or whatever the name is) comes out.
>
>-K
>


Hummm. A thought has just struck me, now before people start getting all
"this is SR not ED" I know that there is no Official connection between
SR and ED.

Was there anything in the proposed area in the 4th age? a Magical
Artifact?

Just a Thought.

-Matthew Waddilove

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 04:13:49 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matthew Waddilove <m_waddilove@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Teleporation
Content-Type: text/plain

Erik Jameson wrote
>
>At 06:05 PM 5/20/98 EDT, you wrote:
>
>>The way I understood the GGD is that most of those who did the dying
were
>>mundanes who participated in the ritual, _not_ the magicians who led
it.
>When
>>designing the spell, these "biotools", as you call them, would be an
active
>>part of the ritual, with their pre-programmed motions being part of
the
>>focussing technique for the ritual (much like the dancing was for the
GGD).
>>At the end of this ritual, the organisms die from the massive strain
that has
>>been channelled by the magicians through their bodies... but they
manage to
>>warp space.
>
>You know, I can't recall if the GGD used mundanes or not. Could we get
>some sort of reference on this from someone, preferably with page
numbers
>please?
>
>Anyway, I suppose what you are talking about is possible, as long as
the
>"biotools" aren't just algae or something; I would think that they
would
>have to be alive *and* sentient, not just have biomass.
<SNIP>

I'm not sure if it would have to be sentient as even animals have
essence(at least if I remember). Evidence to support this is that
animals loose essence when cyber is installed and I don't really think
that this is just a game mechanic to stop an infinite amount of cyber
being installed in animals.

-Matthew Waddilove

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 08:06:46 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztech Armoured Troopers
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 5/21/98 1:08:32 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
Airwasp@***.COM writes:

> What thing I sicced on the guys and Webster in Redmond, the only thing I
> remember is the big robot in mil-spec which Tinsmith had under his control.
> This one ?
>
> Care to refresh my memory Keith ?
>
How about the thing the Lone Star guys had out for a "field test" that you
even said looked like ED-209? It never got destroyed, we did something else
to it. Damn, it's too early for me....

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 08:08:52 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: I'm back (Ooooh Nexx....)
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 5/21/98 1:58:23 AM US Eastern Standard Time, fro@***.AB.CA
writes:

> >Also if anyone in the Houston Tx area wants to start a game IRL (I've got
> >enough PBeM's going), or has space in a game for me let me know. I can
> >either play or GM (hopefully do both).
>
> I have some friends who are moving back to that area this summer. I'll let
> you know later... >:)
>
I think this should be all I need to do. IIRC, Nexx is in the Houston area
this summer...

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 08:11:06 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: (ot) Insect spirits living in my bathroom (was: insect
spirits)
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 5/21/98 2:26:18 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
grota@*********.COM writes:

<snip Bathtub Hornet Ring Story>
> Yeah, okay, so in case you couldn't tell I'm afraid of bugs. But at
> least I do my best to make sure that bugs are scared of me, too.
>
Jett, I must hand it to you. I thank you very much for the humor you just
shared. It helped, I have a few tears in me eyes now to rub out the morning
sand with...

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 08:13:21 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Skillz to pay the billz
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In a message dated 5/21/98 3:37:45 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
gurth@******.NL writes:

> > BTW, what happens if Concentration or Specialization would reduce the
> > general skill to 0? (ie Bob spends 2 "points" in firearms and
> > specializes in Colt Manhunter... would he have [Using the standard
> > system, not Gurth's] a firearms general skill of 1 or 0?)
>
> Skills don't go below 1, so Bob would roll 1 die for firing most weapons.
>
This brings up a thought. Why can't a skill be brought to 0? Effectively the
person starts out with a Concentration Skill level? I don't see that as being
unreasonable or unfathomable. Ignoring Etiquettes here, what about the guy
"who only had pistols to practice with" etcera...???

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 08:18:34 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Weird Campaigns
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 5/21/98 3:48:42 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
gurth@******.NL writes:

> Partly related to this, I thought about security tallies about a week ago,
> and it suddenly dawned on me that it should be possible to erase or
> inflate them... After all, it's just data kept on a computer somewhere, so
> the decker should be able to in- or decrease the counter. However, looking
> through VR 2.0 I couldn't find a system operation that allows this...

Dump Log action reduces things, but it takes time. I know we've got a
program/form that reduces a given security tally, but the program is Net
Success based and the decker has to have an idea how intensive the Tally is
currently (such as after performing an Analyze Host).

> The way to go about this would, I guess, be to do a Locate File to find
> the file (or memory address) containing the security tallies, and then an
> Edit File operation to change them. If you do a Validate Passcode or
> Invalidate Passcode before this, you should be able to erase your security
> tally and appear a completely legitimate user, or do the opposite for
> security deckers.

That would work as well, now that I think of it. That last part for Security
Deckers would be nice once in a while too. The action times, at least IMO,
would take longer however, as the program is trying to perform a Search of all
given databases.

> However, I think there'd be some protection built into the system, for
> example that only supervisor-level users can alter security tallies. Any
> thoughts?

Agree here, you'd probably have larger than normal target numbers for
performing such, and it would NOT be possible at without the Masking Attribute
(so no using a legit deck/terminal for this stunt).

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 08:22:34 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Giving blood in 205X: common or rare?
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In a message dated 5/21/98 5:13:39 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
evamarie@**********.net writes:

<snipped using an AoE magic to get multiple ritual targets at once>

> The problem is, you must form a link with each sample (or use a
> spotter), and do a sending test for each sample. That done, you might
> be able to catch the ones those stages work on with one AE spell, or
> just a split spellcasting.

Spotters are NOT necessary when using links, however, performing a sending
test for each sample is not so bad, though I see it happening all at once and
varying the effects out instead of just using a "flat rate of successes".

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 08:26:04 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Magic
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 5/21/98 5:29:20 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
evamarie@**********.net writes:

> Yeah, you could see clear to Tau Ceti, and view all the wonderful
> creatures there. If your REAL lucky, the vison will grant you the
> insight needed to summon them...
> [Power site friendly to (cthul)WHO??? :) ]
>
to the -caster- you silly fool....oh, that's not sillyness, that's insanity
shining in those eyes...why of course I understand, I'll move away now
(cybercom link to the tactical strike team "subject is 5.3 meters from axiom
grid A4, suggest using BIG BOMBS")

:P

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 05:47:19 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matthew Waddilove <m_waddilove@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Magic
Content-Type: text/plain

Ereskanti wrote
>
>In a message dated 5/21/98 5:29:20 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
>evamarie@**********.net writes:
>
>> Yeah, you could see clear to Tau Ceti, and view all the
wonderful
>> creatures there. If your REAL lucky, the vison will grant you the
>> insight needed to summon them...
>> [Power site friendly to (cthul)WHO??? :) ]
>>
>to the -caster- you silly fool....oh, that's not sillyness, that's
insanity
>shining in those eyes...why of course I understand, I'll move away now
>(cybercom link to the tactical strike team "subject is 5.3 meters from
axiom
>grid A4, suggest using BIG BOMBS")
>
>:P
>
>-K
>

<light positively beaming from eyes>

<corp exec to corp research mage>
So your saying that if we deploy this mirror of yours into orbit then
with a BIG telescope and that new MagSight Spell we could target attack
spells _anywhere_.

<corp mage>
erm Well I had envisoned it being used for more peaceable applications,
but theoretically what your saying is true.

-Matthew Waddilove




______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 09:34:05 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Pool Use (was; Summer Time)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Mongoose wrote:
> Ideally, If you used two or more pools, each would be reduced by the
>same fraction as the other, as you only have so much attention to spread
>around, IMO. This is not at all practical, but is a good "base
>concept", I think.

Agreed.

> A simpler mechanic would be that any dice used in one pool that do
>not
>exceed those in another pool come out of both pools. Sound complex, but
>is actually simple; If you have 8 combat and 5 magic, and use 3 magic,
>combat goes down by 3. If you then use 3 combat, magic does not go
>down, as combat is 5, magic 2- both go to 2. If you then use 2 from
>EITHER, both are gone.

Hmm. I'd probably take dice away from the top, so to speak. With
8 CP and 5 MP, using 3 MP leaves you with 5 CP and 2 MP. Using 4 CP
drops you to 1 CP and 1 MP. "If the pool that you are using dice
from has more dice than any other pool, treat the final level of that
pool as a maximum limit for the other pools."

Actually, I guess that works out to a "floating pool". Just take your
largest pool (8 CP in this case), and get that many dice. You can't
use more than 5 of them as MP.

> Does this seem reasonable? Is it a"problem" that even needs fixing?
>The example of mages using combat pool for damage resistance only (and
>thus having more availible there than samuria) indicates to me it DOES
>need fixing.

Well, apart from the fact that mages tend to get geeked a lot easier
than sams (relatively low bodies, no cyber, etc)...

It depends, as you implied above, on how you define a pool. If it is
indeed "concentration and focus", then limiting the pool used/available
is a good thing. If instead it represents something different (or
perhaps several different things), then it might fall apart. MP doesn't
seem related to concentration, but is limited by skill (and to an
extent, inherent magical ability). CP is determined by attributes.
This would seem to indicate that there are at least two different kinds
of pools.

James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 07:40:20 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: One-Shots
Content-Type: text

Recently I was actually playtesting some house rules with my group. I
had the playes make and use one-shot characters for the playtest.

An interesting thing happened. We had a blast *roleplaying* with these
characters. As one player described it, he could ride the edge because
he knew the character wasn't going to be in the game for the long
haul. Death was tempted, roleplaying was pushed to the edge, and the
PCs played off of eachother.

I suggest running the occasional one-shot adventure in your game.
The players will get to experiment with characters (kinda like trying
out different spices in the kitchen) without fear of screwing up or
killing their primary characters. And you can use the one-shots to
fill in the players knowledge of events in my world that you don't want
to involve their primary characters in. For example, I want the
players to know that AZ is playing with blood magic. But my campaign
isn't headed anywhere near AZ. Using a one-shot to toss the players
into the middle of an AZ blood ritual will be much more effective
then having a contact of a primary PC convey this information. If,
after the one-shot AZ adventure, a contact tells a primary PC that AZ
is experimenting in blood magic, then it will make much more of an
impact on the player, IMHO.

And you (as the GM) can use the one-shots to experiment too. There
are some critters that I've wanted to use, but haven't for fear of
wasting the PCs. I can run a one-shot that culminates in a final
battle with the critter and it won't matter to much if the one-shot PCs
die.

You can also use one-shots to influence my campaign. You could write an
adventure who's outcome decides the course of events in my primary
campaign.

Just an idea :)

-David
--
"If I told you, then I'd have to pull a Shadowrun against you. Sorry."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 08:10:09 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Pool Use (was; Summer Time)
In-Reply-To: <199805202200.QAA24317@******.carl.org> from "Erik Jameson"
at
May 20, 98 05:53:12 pm
Content-Type: text

Erik Jameson wrote:
/
/ At 04:44 PM 5/20/98 -0500, you wrote:
/
/ >For sake of this argument, I'll assume pools represent your "focus and
/ >concentration" on the task you are doing", and that current pool values
/ >are good and useful for the given areas.
/
/ Reasonable assumption but nobody, including the DLOH, seems to know why we
/ have dice pools. It's an important game mechanic, but no one seems to have
/ the concrete answer as to why it even exists.

IMO pools are a game mechanic only. Whenever anyone has tried to equate
them with a "real" world function (concentration, focus, luck, etc) the
reason for their existence break down.

I think I know why dice pools exist.

An effect of dice pools (whether intentional or not) is that they add
a level of unpredictability to combat and require the players to plan
their moves. For example, on any given action pool dice could be
spent on offense or saved for defense. I as the GM don't know which
way the ball is going to bounce when it comes to PCs' pools. And the
player has to weigh his decision on how to use his pools, forcing him
to think his way through combat. IMHO dice pools make combat more
interesting for all involved.

Anyway, that's what dice pools represent to me: a level of
unpredictability that requires planning when it comes to combat.

/ >Does this seem reasonable? Is it a"problem" that even needs fixing?
/ >The example of mages using combat pool for damage resistance only (and
/ >thus having more availible there than samuria) indicates to me it DOES
/ >need fixing.

I don't think there is a problem that needs fixing. As I've GMed and
played Shadowrun over the years dice pools have never really caused a
problem. Karma pools on the other hand... <don't get started Dave ;>

/ Actually, I don't really think it needs fixing. BUT if I were to have to
/ come up with a solution to the problem you posit, I wouldn't use your
/ answer. It isn't an original idea, but I think it would be better then to
/ use a single pool for everything.
/
/ Call it a "Shadow Pool" or something, a group of dice that can be used by
/ shadowrunners. Not sure of what it would be, but if you accept that pools
/ are a byproduct of focus and concentration, you could make this pool
/ INT+WILL/2 or something.

I agree in that one pool would probably work better. However, that
depends on the effect you want to achieve :) I'd go with a single
Combat Pool, derived from (Body + Quickness + Intelligence +
Willpower)/3 (round down), that can be applied towards any attack or
resistence test in combat. As per the rules you couldn't use more pool
dice than the rating of the skill or attribute required for the test.
And note that I defined it as a *Combat* pool. This resolves and issue
that I've had in that Magic Pools can be used outside of combat in a
rather munchkinous manner. If you call it a Combat Pool, then it can
only be used during combat. If a character needs some luck outside of
combat then they can use their Karma Pool, IMHO.

As rule mechanic only, I chose those four attributes because to me they
represent the offensive (quickness and intelligence) and defensive
(body and willpower) attributes.

-David
--
"If I told you, then I'd have to pull a Shadowrun against you. Sorry."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 08:33:22 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Ultra Boy in Shadowrun
In-Reply-To: <199805202345.RAA27060@******.carl.org> from "DisnyShamn" at
May
20, 98 07:42:47 pm
Content-Type: text

DisnyShamn wrote:
/
/ Demosthenes Three wrote:
/ > / For a Shadowrun twist to the idea, what about a street samurai that
/ > / has a TON of cyberware implanted in him, with the limitation that he
/ > / can only access one system?
/
/ Which prompted David to opine:
/
/ > While it would work well for a superhero game (in fact, I'll try it out
/ > on my next Champion's character) I don't think it would go over well in
/ > actual application in Shadowrun, at least not in my group.
/ >
/ > In SR a Street Samurai is a Street Samurai, and a Rigger is a Rigger,
/ > and so on.
/
/ Aha. Inspiration particle encountered. How's about a limited form of physad
/ (physical adept adept? ::shrug::), can only use one ability at a time. Now, of
/ course, this could be cheesed by only GETTING one or two powers, but hey.

I could see it. I'd add an addendum, in that it requires a complex
action to deactivate a power and another complex action to activate a
power

-David
--
"If I told you, then I'd have to pull a Shadowrun against you. Sorry."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 10:40:02 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: (ot) Insect spirits living in my bathroom (was: insect
spirits)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Once upon a time, Jessica Grota wrote;

>I beg to differ! Hornets are ornery buggers. I've been holding the
>homefront against them for a couple weeks now: they're all over my
>house, in my yard, etc. I've seen them attack and kill bumblebees for
>wandering too close to their hive. The scary thing is, they don't lose
>their stingers, so they can sting again and again. And they tend to gang
>up, of course. MEAN suckers.
<snip>

Here in Mecklenburg County we're called the Hornet's Nest after the
resistance we gave the british forces from the American Revolution. It
was from that same visciousness the hornets are known for.
And yes since the don't lose their stingers or die from useing it
they aren't afraid of using at any time or multiple times. But worse,
they are just pissed off bugs to begin with.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle
- G.I.Joe

I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 10:48:55 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Pool Use (was; Summer Time)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Once upon a time, David Buehrer wrote;

>IMO pools are a game mechanic only. Whenever anyone has tried to equate
>them with a "real" world function (concentration, focus, luck, etc) the
>reason for their existence break down.

Hey I equate it to Game world functions. B>]#

>I think I know why dice pools exist.

I think most of their uses simulate a lot of offensive/defensive
maneuverings in their most simplistic manner. And it does it better than
any other systems rules to boot.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 08:56:07 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Weird Campaigns
In-Reply-To: <199805202120.PAA22922@******.carl.org> from
"Wafflemeisters" at
May 20, 98 04:45:25 pm
Content-Type: text

Wafflemeisters wrote:
/
[snip: VR2 and system security system tally]
/
/ So, supposedly, the system traks TOTAL security tally, and also the
/ amount genrated by each "illegal" user? (disignated HOW, as opposed to
/ those using "validate passcode", or those "invalidated" by an
intruding
/ decker?)
/ HMM, so an easy way for a corp decker to make things tough for an
/ intruder would be to perform some illegal opps, uppin the tally. A
/ system crash would piss off the corp, but so would stolen data... And
/ "invalidating" somebody would be a potential assasination technique...

Or, set the tally settings low. IIRC Red systems have pretty low
tallies, where as Green systems have high tally levels.

/ I'm pretty damn sure I found a passage in VR2 that confirms that
/ Tallies are NOT global, but I loaned out my anotated copy and only have
/ the "collectors edition" here. I can't find anything that says they ARE
/ global, or refers to deckerS, plural, when referencing security
/ tallies. If tallies are global, frames would be a LOT less useful,
/ generally having dreck for detection factors...

I got the impression that system tallies are global. Which makes sense,
IMHO, given the data paranoia of SR 205x.

In SR information is a very real comodity. The Crash of 29 wiped out a
lot of data (let's not get into how that happened, please :). After
the Virus was defeated everyone horded the data they had left and
locked it behind the tightest security they could.

As time passed the security was lifted on less sensitive data (library
catalogs, encyclopias, etc) but everyone kept a tight lid on sensitive
data.

But, the Crash of 29 created an environment that fostered the hording
and protection of data. Before the crash just about anyone could check
out patents, designs, and basic knowledge. After the crash even basic
information was very restricted.

If, after the Crash, you had a viable copy of basic chemical process,
then it was very probable that you had the *only* copy, due to the
effectiveness of the Virus. As a corp you would probably keep that
process close to your chest and not let anyone near it. It gives you a
monopoly on the process. And it gives you a major head start on doing
research on more advanced chemical processes.

As time passes the corps tend to specialize, depending on what data
they started out with after the crash. Sure, geniuses would allow some
corps without that data to rebuild their knowledge base, and create
competition. But most of the corps have to steal it, or die, or find a
nitch that no one is exploiting (the knowledge was completely wiped
out) and start from scratch (relatively speaking).

Given that kind of environment I, as a corporation, would have no
problem paying for lost time due to system shut downs resulting from
attempted intrusions into my data to protect my monopoly.

That kinda rambled, but I think I got my point across :)

-David
--
"If I told you, then I'd have to pull a Shadowrun against you. Sorry."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 10:04:57 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Weird Campaigns

On Wed, 20 May 1998 20:14:52 EDT DisnyShamn <DisnyShamn@***.COM> writes:
>> I'm pretty damn sure I found a passage in VR2 that confirms
that
>> Tallies are NOT global, but I loaned out my anotated copy and only
have
>> the "collectors edition" here. I can't find anything that says they
ARE
>> global, or refers to deckerS, plural, when referencing security
>> tallies. If tallies are global, frames would be a LOT less useful,
>> generally having dreck for detection factors...

VR 2.0 makes constant reference to the Decker's Security Tally ...either
that's poor wording or the Sec Tally is indivual :)

>I seem to recall a reference in VR2 to systems remaining "alert" for
awhile
>after a decker has logged off. This would necessitate some sort of
globalness
>of security tally. I'd suggest a compromise;

I believe you are referring to the material under Host Reset on pg 65.

>Let's look at what happens when a security tally is raised; the system
becomes
>increasingly "aware" of an intruder; alarms are going off. Now, this
SHOULD,
>if the system had an at-all-logical designer, kick in some general
diagnostics
>and whatnot. But the more you do, the easier it will be to locate you,
in
>particular. I can think of a few ways to do this; one requires some
>bookkeeping, another monkeys with the rules in VR2 a bit and makes any
long
>duration very nasty, and the last makes team-decking a bt too safe.
>
>1. Security tally IS global, but a given user/decker is tracked ONLY
from the
>point at which he entered the system. That is, if Decker Bob had a tally
of 12
>when Decker Cindy-Lu-Hoo comes in, the can both raise the tally, but for
her
>it starts at 0.
>Example: if he raises it another 2 and she blunders it up by 3, it's
raised a
>total of 5 for both, raising him to 17, but her to only 5.

I like this but dunno ... wouldn't Cindy actually draw attention away
from Bob?

<SNIP other options :)>

How about Security Tallies are individual but alerts are Global?

>- Disney Shaman

What are your Bonus dice ... or do I wanna know? ;)

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:05:16 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: DisnyShamn <DisnyShamn@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Troll Clones (WHOOPS)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 5/20/98 11:00:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dghost@****.COM
writes:

> Actually (Average) Gestation for a Troll is 259 days compared to 266.6
> for humans, 284 for dwarfs, 360 for elves, and 187 for Orks .. (See pages
> 36-38, last lines of the Habits for each race)

Oopsie. I knew orks were faster, but thought Trolls slower. How embarassing.
Oh, well. Still, it doesn't seem right to me that a half ton of troll should
be formed quicker than a .8 kilo human when force-grown. In this case, I
assume the proper growth hormones and whatnot are circulating at maximum
anyway, so I'd ignore the standard racial growh times and instead just go by
sheer mass. (Elves wouldn't take any longer than humans, for example)

- Disney Shaman
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 09:46:13 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Hacking Security Tallies (Was Re: Weird Campaigns)

On Thu, 21 May 1998 04:30:44 -0600 Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA> writes:
>At 10:36 21/05/98 +0100, you wrote:
>[Hacking Security Tallies]
>>The way to go about this would, I guess, be to do a Locate File to find
>>the file (or memory address) containing the security tallies, and then
an
>>Edit File operation to change them.

>Memory address, almost certainly. Harder for the average person to mess
>with and less likely to be a victim of a
randomly-deleting-stuff-dork-hacker.
>
>I don't have VR2 right here, but Locate Memory Address would probably be
>much the same as Locate File.

Hmmmm.... VR2 doesn't have a listing for Locate Memory Address, but I
don't think it'd be like Locate File ... Dunno, I'm still *working on* my
computer savyness, but if SR computers are like modern computers , they
don't have a FAT table like the File system does ... IIRC, the closest
thing is if a chunk of memory is needed for a proggie, the proggie needs
to tell the OS that and so in the OS section there's a map that says this
chunk is allocated for this proggie. This map would even have an entry
for the OS, but it wouldn't actually tell you what the little bits mean
... I would say to remove the security Tallies you would need to:
1) Get a memory dump (shouldn't be too hard)
2) Find the OS section
3) Locate/decrypt the Security Tallies section
4) Find the Security Tallies in Active Memory
5) Alter the Security Tallies in Active Memory

How much time would all this take? Quite a bit, I think, but once you do
it the subsequent attempts should be easy ... unless the OS shifts in
memory (not a good idea, IMO).

>>However, I think there'd be some protection built into the system, for
>>example that only supervisor-level users can alter security tallies.
Any
>>thoughts?

>I think it would be nice to have longer days and require less sleep.
Oh!
>Thoughts about this stuff! Well, it makes sense -- if the computer does
>something, it has to be poking bytes somewhere, and a skilled "user"
should
>be able to manipulate those bytes.. and yes, modifying something like
that
>would obviously be superuser only -- that's the point of superusers, to
fix
>shit when users break it, right? :)
>
>Back to the time thing, I really need some time to work on JIaFU.. :/
>
>-Adam
<SNIP Sig>

Query: Win 95 gives GPFs (General Protection Faults) when a proggie tries
to access memory outside of the general block it was assigned (It can
jump out of the memory assigned to it a little sometimes ... but
sometimes it'll GPF [Blue Screen of Death!]) ... Does this happen to
Deckers or is this what Masking is for?

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum)

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:14:09 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: DisnyShamn <DisnyShamn@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Weird Campaigns
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

> >- Disney Shaman
>
> What are your Bonus dice ... or do I wanna know? ;)

+4 dice to summon Spirits of Whimsy.

Disney Shaman
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:09:16 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Hacking Security Tallies (Was Re: Weird Campaigns) -Reply

<snip: reset security tally>
>Well, it makes sense -- if the computer does something, it has to be
>poking bytes somewhere, and a skilled "user" should be able to
>manipulate those bytes.. and yes, modifying something like that would
>obviously be superuser only -- that's the point of superusers, to fix
>shit when users break it, right? :)

Except that the security tally will be implemented in hardware as much
as possible, for this very reason. Reseting a security tally manually
should require inserting a special key into a lock on the mainframe. You
can't put too much into hardware or you loose the flexibilty to adapt or
upgrade, but security tally certainly can go there.

Double-Domed Mike
--MIT&M: We Bring Good Things to Life
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:18:40 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MgkellyMP5 <MgkellyMP5@***.COM>
Subject: Re: (ot) Insect spirits living in my bathroom (was: insect
spirits)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-05-21 03:26:19 EDT, you write:

<SNIP killing the hornet>

<< Yeah, okay, so in case you couldn't tell I'm afraid of bugs. But at
least I do my best to make sure that bugs are scared of me, too.

--Jett
>>

Damn good thing she doesn't live in Chicago ;]

Mgkelly
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:23:27 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hacking Security Tallies (Was Re: Weird Campaigns) -Reply
In-Reply-To: <s5640d5d.041@********.dragonsys.com> from "Mike Elkins" at
May
21, 98 11:09:16 am
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>
> <snip: reset security tally>
> >Well, it makes sense -- if the computer does something, it has to be
> >poking bytes somewhere, and a skilled "user" should be able to
> >manipulate those bytes.. and yes, modifying something like that would
> >obviously be superuser only -- that's the point of superusers, to fix
> >shit when users break it, right? :)
>
> Except that the security tally will be implemented in hardware as much
> as possible, for this very reason. Reseting a security tally manually
> should require inserting a special key into a lock on the mainframe. You
> can't put too much into hardware or you loose the flexibilty to adapt or
> upgrade, but security tally certainly can go there.
>
A very possible solution, depending on your level of paranoia.
However, depending on exactly what the key does, you can probably
write code to mimic it. (What signal does it generate to what process?)
To remove a security Tally, the decker is probably going to either know
what process/files are involved, or be able to act as "superuser" to
command the correct process. I'm thinking this is why a talented decker
would spend some time in a system quietly, creating some back doors, etc.
Them during the run with time and stealth is critical, much less stress.
Then again, your applying real life computer principals to SR again.
And that doesn't always work. :)

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:49:34 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Hacking Security Tallies (Was Re: Weird Campaigns)

Lehlan Decker wrote:
>However, depending on exactly what the key does, you can probably
>write code to mimic it

On a PC, sure. On a multi-million nuyen piece of equipment designed by
paranoid and clever engineers, no. The security tally and other critical
security information can be stored in a read-only memory block (read
only at the HARDWARE level, the write pin can be physically
disconnected) and can be written to ONLY when the master key is in
the lock. The chief programmer only puts the key in the lock when his
deckers report that they are in place and ready to make the changes.
Put the key in, reset security tally, take the key out, then look at the
security block and make sure it still says exactly what you think it should
(in case someone with a great deal of masking happened to be in your
system during this critical time). If at all possible, the system should be
Off-line during this operation, but that might not be possible with some of
these systems.

Double-Domed Mike
--MIT&M: We Bring Good Things to Life
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:05:31 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Hacking Security Tallies (Was Re: Weird Campaigns)

<snip: my hardware solution>

D'Oh! One thing I missed, of course, is that if the security tally is in
read-only memory, it won't increase no matter what deckers do :)

I was trying to keep it simple, but how about this: The description of the
computer's security sheath etc. is stored in the read-only page like I
described, but the actuall tally is a hardware register, not a memory
location. Software can push a "button" and increment it, but there is no
software "button" to decrement it. That can only be done by hardware
timer (causing the system to relax) or by pushing real life buttons on the
outside of the mainframe case, controled by the aformentioned security
key. Red systems probably get even more paranoid.

Just for context, "cheap" minicomputers (like the RS6000) do stuff like
this now, and they start at the $6000 buck range.

Double-Domed Mike
--Real life Otaku...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:34:42 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: BigDaddy <bigdaddy@*****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Re: (ot) Insect spirits living in my bathroom (was: insect
spirits)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Damn good thing she doesn't live in Chicago ;]

Mgkelly


outta curiostiy what is up with Chicago? How exactly did they get rid of
all the bugs? What was that stuff Ares used?
--
Napalm Sticks to Kidz,
BigDaddy
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:37:15 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: (ot) Insect spirits living in my bathroom (was: insectspirits)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

MC23 wrote:
>>I beg to differ! Hornets are ornery buggers. I've been holding the
[snip]
> Here in Mecklenburg County we're called the Hornet's Nest after the

Wow! MC23 revealing yet more personal information! Mecklenburg County,
MC23 - that's convenient, isn't it? Now what's the 23 for...
["You have been watching the MC23 decoding project, now in it's 1st day.
Eventually, we hope to understand just what makes MC23 MC23. Tune in
next week when we begin to tackle the second half of the equation."]

:-)

James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 09:38:16 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: (ot) Insect spirits living in my bathroom (was: insectspirits)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

----------
> From: BigDaddy <bigdaddy@*****.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: (ot) Insect spirits living in my bathroom (was:
insectspirits)
> Date: Thursday, May 21, 1998 9:34 AM
>
> Damn good thing she doesn't live in Chicago ;]
>
> Mgkelly
>
>
> outta curiostiy what is up with Chicago? How exactly did they get rid of
> all the bugs? What was that stuff Ares used?
> --

A specially engineered version of Strain III. It originally appears in the
Threats sourcebook. I've never been quite clear if it's a special strain
of FAB or not.

Anyway, what it is is an astral bacteria that drains off magic. They hosed
down Chicago, and the bugs, and then killed them while they were weak.
Probably only culled off the weaker members of the hives, leaving the big
nasties still alive. But that's what they did. Now Chicago has got a
messed up astral space, floating clouds of Strain III Beta, and a pissed
off Ghoul population.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:42:26 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sommers <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Weird Campaigns
In-Reply-To: <19980521.100458.14038.8.dghost@****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:04 AM 5/21/98 -0500, you wrote:
>On Wed, 20 May 1998 20:14:52 EDT DisnyShamn <DisnyShamn@***.COM> writes:

<lots of stuff snipped>

>VR 2.0 makes constant reference to the Decker's Security Tally ...either
>that's poor wording or the Sec Tally is indivual :)
>
><SNIP other options :)>
>
>How about Security Tallies are individual but alerts are Global?
>

Okay, I work as PC support at my place, but I do some stuff with the
network admins. On our Novell server we have access rights that only the
superuser can change, limiting people on how they get in, etc. There is
also something like a security tally.

When a user tries to login to the system, they get prompted for their
username and pw. If they put in the wrong pw, it prompts them again. You
get 3 tries, then it locks up. What happens in the background is this.

You type in the pw 1st, and get it wrong. If you get it right the second
time, you get in and do your stuff. You do get a message saying that you
got it wrong, that you have to clear. The network program marks that you
got your password wrong once in the security file, which can be accessed by
the superuser.

You get it wrong twice, smae as the first.

Third time, you're in trouble. The login won't work until you sever your
connection, ie. reboot the system. Even then, you cannot use that account
to log in. The security program (a subroutine of the network program)
temporarily marks that account with NO access rights and sends a page to
the netadmin. He has to log onto a terminal somewhere as a superuser, go
into the security program, and reset the guy's account.

In now way does my screwup with my password affect my neighbor's ability or
rights to login.

Trying to compare it to Real Life (a mistake I know) it seems that a
Security Tally is local to the user, and keeps track of how much they are
screwing up before their rights are changed. If they get a 1/3 tally, they
lose the right NOT to be hassled by some IC that sniffs around more
carefully to find out who they are. If they get a full tally, they lose the
right to NOT be targeted by that nasty Black IC.

The GLobal Alerts are commands that change the access rights of Everyone,
so that they all lose the right to not be hassled by sniffers. If you're
really paranoid you might make it so that anybody who got any tally added
up to up the Alert Status, but on a major system that might have hundreds
to thousands of users, it would quickly shut down.

Sommers
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 17:49:34 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: (ot) Insect spirits living in my bathroom (was: insectspirits)
In-Reply-To:
<cÊ%a=GOVMT.CANADA%p=GC+EC%lìNCR_EXCH2-980521163715Z-18413@***.ncr.ec.gc.ca>
from "Ojaste,James
[NCR]" at May 21, 98 12:37:15 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Ojaste,James [NCR] hastily scribble thusly...
|
|MC23 wrote:
|>>I beg to differ! Hornets are ornery buggers. I've been holding the
|[snip]
|> Here in Mecklenburg County we're called the Hornet's Nest after the
|
|Wow! MC23 revealing yet more personal information! Mecklenburg County,
|MC23 - that's convenient, isn't it? Now what's the 23 for...
|["You have been watching the MC23 decoding project, now in it's 1st day.
|Eventually, we hope to understand just what makes MC23 MC23. Tune in
|next week when we begin to tackle the second half of the equation."]

Well... If it'd been in Britain, it could've been a post code....

Which would make me ST55DY...
:)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 09:56:17 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matthew Waddilove <m_waddilove@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: (ot) Insect spirits living in my bathroom (was: insectspirits)
Content-Type: text/plain

Spike WROTE
>
>And verily, did Ojaste,James [NCR] hastily scribble thusly...
>|
>|MC23 wrote:
>|>>I beg to differ! Hornets are ornery buggers. I've been holding the
>|[snip]
>|> Here in Mecklenburg County we're called the Hornet's Nest after
the
>|
>|Wow! MC23 revealing yet more personal information! Mecklenburg
County,
>|MC23 - that's convenient, isn't it? Now what's the 23 for...
>|["You have been watching the MC23 decoding project, now in it's 1st
day.
>|Eventually, we hope to understand just what makes MC23 MC23. Tune in
>|next week when we begin to tackle the second half of the equation."]
>
>Well... If it'd been in Britain, it could've been a post code....
>
>Which would make me ST55DY...
>:)


Ah-ha Spike I've got you now cackled CV47EZ :)

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 13:06:51 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hacking Security Tallies (Was Re: Weird Campaigns)
In-Reply-To: <s56416d5.016@********.dragonsys.com> from "Mike Elkins" at
May
21, 98 11:49:34 am
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>
> Lehlan Decker wrote:
> >However, depending on exactly what the key does, you can probably
> >write code to mimic it
>
> On a PC, sure. On a multi-million nuyen piece of equipment designed by
> paranoid and clever engineers, no. The security tally and other critical
> security information can be stored in a read-only memory block (read
> only at the HARDWARE level, the write pin can be physically
> disconnected) and can be written to ONLY when the master key is in
> the lock. The chief programmer only puts the key in the lock when his
> deckers report that they are in place and ready to make the changes.
> Put the key in, reset security tally, take the key out, then look at the
> security block and make sure it still says exactly what you think it should
> (in case someone with a great deal of masking happened to be in your
> system during this critical time). If at all possible, the system should be
> Off-line during this operation, but that might not be possible with some of
> these systems.
>
Yep, I agree with this one, for the hard core ultra-secure places. But
for the less secure places, it may be a bit more painful. You have to remember
if security makes life difficult for the people who are implementing the system
they are much less likely to do so. (ex crypto cards, you should have heard
the *(&(*& at my place of work, because it would add one more step to login).
At that point, I had my shadow team physically go in, "borrow" the key, manager,
etc. And then I do my work. :)

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 13:10:51 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: DisnyShamn <DisnyShamn@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Weird Campaigns
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

From Sommers, the following:

> Third time, you're in trouble. The login won't work until you sever your
> connection, ie. reboot the system. Even then, you cannot use that account
> to log in. The security program (a subroutine of the network program)
> temporarily marks that account with NO access rights and sends a page to
> the netadmin. He has to log onto a terminal somewhere as a superuser, go
> into the security program, and reset the guy's account.
>
> In now way does my screwup with my password affect my neighbor's ability or
> rights to login.

Where the analogy breaks down is, the SR decker is presumably not using the
same "account" when he logs in each time. How's the system to know that Decker
Bob, coming in for a second try, is any different from legit user Steve,
coming in to check his e-mail?

Or, for a more symmetrical example, that Decker Bob, coming in for try #2, is
any different from Decker Cindy, coming in for the first time that day?

See, the problem with an individual tally is that you can just sign off and
then back on again; also, you can "tag-team" a datarun and take turns doing
things, "spreading out" the tally. (Of course, it stands to reason that you
SHOULD be able to benefit from having buds)

- Disney Shaman
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 19:13:57 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Organization: Authors of OL.TXT
Subject: Re: Aztech Armoured Troopers
In-Reply-To: <50b835de.35635536@***.com>

On 20 May 98, at 18:12, Drakkath X wrote:
[snip]
> Yeah, a drone, seating for one, b/a 3/12, 2 mechanicalarms, mounted with
> miniguns belted to 1000 rounds ex-explosive ammo(so they have.... no they
> don't have a chance.) rigger inside w/ vcr3, smartlink2, paineditor;
> oh yeah, who needs agression drugs when the character is controlled
> by a
> vengeful grm- callit 2gfup[gamemaster gonna f**k you up]
>
> ..... that's nasty.
..that's what Commander Vimes called a ballistic approach to spelling and
punctuation.

Really, people, those strange " ", ".", "," characters are
there on your keyboard
for a reason. Using them might, just might, help people to read what you wrote.
No, I will not even dare to ask for line breaks, or structured sentences, but please
remember not all of us learned English as native language. Thanks.


Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst | "If I'd had to buy |
| / /_/ ____/ | Jhary-a-Conel@***.net | you, you wouldn't |
| \___ __/ | ICQ#: 7 517 216 | be worth the |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | price." |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | - E.Weatherwax |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary ----(T.Pratchett)+
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 13:15:38 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: DisnyShamn <DisnyShamn@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Hacking Security Tallies (Was Re: Weird Campaigns)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

> Software can push a "button" and increment it, but there is no
> software "button" to decrement it. That can only be done by hardware
> timer (causing the system to relax) or by pushing real life buttons on the
> outside of the mainframe case,

Hey,. here's an idea. Howsabout waiting around in a system for hours or days
or whatever (ain't IV great?) for a sec tally to drop, then forging on from
sratch. Time-consuming, but for those hypersensitive systems with the *big*
IC....

- Disney Shaman
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 13:37:15 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: (ot) Insect spirits living in my bathroom (was: insectspirits)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Once upon a time, Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote;

>MC23 wrote:
>>>I beg to differ! Hornets are ornery buggers. I've been holding the
>[snip]
>> Here in Mecklenburg County we're called the Hornet's Nest after the
>
>Wow! MC23 revealing yet more personal information! Mecklenburg County,
>MC23 - that's convenient, isn't it? Now what's the 23 for...
>["You have been watching the MC23 decoding project, now in it's 1st day.
>Eventually, we hope to understand just what makes MC23 MC23. Tune in
>next week when we begin to tackle the second half of the equation."]

eh-hem. If it were that simple I wouldn't be MC23.
<The Crow>
Try again. Try harder!
</The Crow>
B>]#

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:02:10 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MgkellyMP5 <MgkellyMP5@***.COM>
Subject: Re: (ot) Insect spirits living in my bathroom (was: insectspirits)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-05-21 12:34:21 EDT, you write:

<< Wow! MC23 revealing yet more personal information! Mecklenburg County,
MC23 - that's convenient, isn't it? Now what's the 23 for...
["You have been watching the MC23 decoding project, now in it's 1st day.
Eventually, we hope to understand just what makes MC23 MC23. Tune in
next week when we begin to tackle the second half of the equation."] >>

State Route 23 maybe? Live out in the middle of nowhere don't you? ;]
He's giving away clues to his location! Mobilize an assault team! ;]

Just kidding. You can unbarricade the doors and put the gun down ;]

Mgkelly
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:17:34 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Teleporation
In-Reply-To: <034401bd8467$88797100$5a5211ac@********.mincom.oz.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:21 PM 5/21/98 +1000, you wrote:
>Nexx writes:
>><< You know, I can't recall if the GGD used mundanes or not. Could we get
>> some sort of reference on this from someone, preferably with page numbers
>> please?>>
>
>It is explicitly mentioned that anyone can dance the Dance, as long as there
>is a shaman to control the power. The GGD was a form of blood magic, with
>people voluntarily giving up their life force to power the ritual. Mundanes
>can do that as well as magicians.

Ah, okay. I seemed to recall something of this sort, but I wasn't positive.

>I have a feeling that the blood magic in the GGD was a little more pure than
>the Aztlan blood magic, due to the voluntary nature of the sacrifice.

Define "pure." If I recall my ED, there are those (including Lightbearers
I'm pretty sure) that strongly believe that Life Magic is just a prettier
name for Blood Magic.

I think in SR terms we could say that the background count from those two
actions would be different in "taste" only. The raw power levels would be
similar, but Blood Magic would taste very, very bad, while Life Magic would
only taste bad (since the Essence was taken voluntarily).

I think in Awakenings there's a debate on this same topic if I recall
correctly. I guess I'm with the crew that sees Life Magic as a pretty name
for Blood Magic. But your opinions may vary of course.

Erik J.

Fight the Future on June 19th!!

nice .sig there David...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:17:59 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Giving blood in 205X: common or rare
In-Reply-To: <356404E2.76B6@**********.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 05:41 AM 5/21/98 -0500, you wrote:

>DocWagon often
>holds"exclusive Contracts", IE, they are the ONLY providers of Emergency
>Medical Response in an area. I imagine the Govt. allows this in return
>for sweet deals on contracts, equipment, and garunteed area coverage.

Just as a note, this is often the case in real life, right now. Various
ambulance companies bid for rights to service specific cities and counties.

Many municipalities, including LA City and LA County, keep their paramedic
services private, but contract out for EMT/Ambulance service. Some places
contract the whole thing out to private companies, others keep it all
in-house.

Having once been a CA and National registered EMT-B and a lifeguard, the
entire concept of DocWagon is easily, for me, the most realistic part of
Shadowrun. Hell, they could do it now in places like Beverly Hills,
Brentwood and Malibu, where there is a much higher percentage of people
with disposable incomes. I'm actually suprised no one has tried to do it;
initial profit margins must be heavy on the red side or something.

Erik J.


Resepected Elders Relaxation Resort, President of Operations
and Director of Activities

"Hey, how about a game of first edition using only the Blue Book?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:18:27 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Petrolias on the map
In-Reply-To: <989695e7.35638c0d@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:06 PM 5/20/98 EDT, you wrote:

>Actually, it's in 2062, so we have to wait just a bit longer... (oh, the
>misery of it all ;)

Damn. Oh well. Does that date (surely there must be a month for that
event available somewhere, right?) coincide with *anything* in the Big D's
will?


>> Almost guaranteed. This event alone could possibly draw them up to the
AAA
>> tier, or maybe not. But it clearly would give them extra ammunition.
>
>If not them, IF, they join the PPG, then it would give -them- the
resources to
>look the other major forces straight in the face and say "Hey, I don't take
>nothing from no girl...." (laughter)

Hmmmm...the PPG (hey, the name for Bab-5 handguns!) would wield tremendous
influence with two AAA's and a number of strong AAs. They could be like a
Fuchi, very powerful but rife with nasty in-fighting. I think that'll
start by the end of 2060...


>> Possible. The Corporate Download book I think is focusing in on the Big
>> 10, and depending on how much attention is paid to the Pacific Prosperity
>> Group, an answer of some sort might be forthcoming. But we'll have to
wait
>> until December/January for this though...
>
>Just remember, that two members of the PPG are also "Big 10" types...

Yeah, it all depends on where the focus goes. You'd think that the PPG
will be mentioned, but it isn't obvious that the PPG itself will recieve
the sort of individual attention that would be required to get serious
paydata on Fed-Boeing.

I loved the Corporate Shadowfiles and I'm sure I'm gonna love the Corporate
Download.

Erik J.

Fight the Future on June 19th!


"Forgive me FASA for I have sinned. It has been 6 days since I last played
Shadowrun and 15 days since I last bought a SRTCG booster pack."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:18:54 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Fully Active Aura Cloning
In-Reply-To: <18021d69.35638d06@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:10 PM 5/20/98 EDT, you wrote:

>> Anyway, how can you clone a soul? Even using your procedure, I don't see
>> how it could happen. I'd argue that nothing would happen. But it is
>> possible (though perhaps not probable) that the soul could be forced to
>> split, half of the soul staying in the original body and half going to
>> inhabit the clone body. Or the stresses of being split or trying to
>> inhabit two bodies overstresses the soul and it is destroyed, killing at
>> least the "parent" if not also the clone.
>>
>Okay, I'm just leaping in on this one point. Remember Aztlan??? There is an
>old parable about "Smoking Mirrors" and their entire religious discourse.

Vaguely. I tend to remember things in a holistic fashion though, not
individual details.


>There is also a thought about
>"attracting alternate beings", as in, "X" being is the original
from -this-
>dimension, while "Y" being is from -that- dimension. They are each other's
>"Mirror Selves" as it were.

Curious. Interesting possibilities for a plot point, if you want to throw
a spanner in the works.

Sorry, make that wrench and not spanner. I've just started re-reading the
six books of the Hitchhiker's Guide Trilogy, and "spanner" gets used about
a once per page on the first 20-30 pages...

Erik J.

Arch-Enemy of Marvin, the Paranoid Android! (he just hates it when I'm
nice to him!)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:21:07 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Pool Use (was; Summer Time)
In-Reply-To: <199805211410.IAA22724@******.carl.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 08:10 AM 5/21/98 -0600, you wrote:


>I think I know why dice pools exist.
>
>An effect of dice pools (whether intentional or not) is that they add
>a level of unpredictability to combat and require the players to plan
>their moves. For example, on any given action pool dice could be
>spent on offense or saved for defense. I as the GM don't know which
>way the ball is going to bounce when it comes to PCs' pools. And the
>player has to weigh his decision on how to use his pools, forcing him
>to think his way through combat. IMHO dice pools make combat more
>interesting for all involved.
>
>Anyway, that's what dice pools represent to me: a level of
>unpredictability that requires planning when it comes to combat.

That's possibly the best explanation that I've heard. Instead of bothering
with offensive/defensive stances and target locations and all those
complexities that are sometimes added, a raw, abstract and simple mechanic
was instituted instead.

Works for me.

Erik J.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:21:46 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Prometheus Unbound
In-Reply-To: <199805210411.AAA06647@******.mindspring.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:09 AM 5/21/98 -0400, you wrote:
> You guys are still operating on the principle that everything is
>possible with magic.

Actually I'm not MC23. I'm also a strong believer that magic has limits.

BUT I do believe that there would be a cross-pollination of ideas between
magical research and other disciplines. Might not ever amount to anything,
but it could create different spells/rituals/foci than what were thought
possible.

It's too early for the fruits of this labor to be ripe though, not enough
time and research has elapsed to this point. A science only four decades
or so old is far too young to be making huge leaps, even with outside ideas.


> And no, I don't deal with home-spun traditions because they can lead
>to the severe breaking of "game laws" worse than the original rules
>bending implied. And the ability of game bending should lie with the GM,
>never a PC.

Hear hear. Why? Because sometimes a GM should be able to do something in
the interest of story and/or fun. Players shouldn't ever have that option
I don't believe.

I'm not sure how home-spun traditions should break the rules. They seem to
me to be usually less efficient when done right. But, *sigh*, I will agree
that it is an area left far too open for munchy types to create their own
mega-traditions...

Erik J., "Slick"


"Forgive me FASA for I have sinned. It has been 6 days since I last played
Shadowrun and 15 days since I last bought a SRTCG booster pack."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 13:55:26 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Weird Campaigns
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>We're working on an all aquatic campaign too. All the PC's will be
Water
>Elemental Adepts, Aquatic Shamans, or amphibious were-critters.
>Right now I'm leaning toward making the team part of Aqua Arcana from
CFS,
>but I might go the easy route and let them be Butt-Pirates of the
>Carribbean! ;-)
><For some reason they ALL wanna kill Gingerbread Man?!?>
>


After going through Cyber Pirates, I had delusions of a Waterworld type
campaign running through my head...

Tony Rabiola rabiola@**.netcom.com
Fourth and Sixth World Adept
Still working on the Fifth...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:57:10 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Hacking Security Tallies (Was Re: Weird Campaigns)

>Yep, I agree with this one, for the hard core ultra-secure places. But
>for the less secure places, it may be a bit more painful.

I can't imagine any Green or higher system NOT requiring a special
hardware procedure to modify the basic security setup. You can't
locate the ICE's executeable file and delete it before it gets triggered, for
example. There is NO reason a legitimate remote user should be able to
reconfigure the security on your system. You should only need to do
that a couple of times a year.

For an ultra-secure system, there would be the key, plus a keypad for
password. The key could only be turned when the machine was OFF,
and the machine would not connect to the matrix until the key was
turned back to the "secure" position. In addition, any time the key was in
place, the room lighting would go red and a bell would sound, all under
hardware--not software--control.

Double-Domed Mike
--Speech Input: Years beyond Microsoft!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 15:06:37 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Teleporation
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Once upon a time, Erik Jameson wrote;

>I think in Awakenings there's a debate on this same topic if I recall
>correctly. I guess I'm with the crew that sees Life Magic as a pretty name
>for Blood Magic. But your opinions may vary of course.

Call me romantic but I find something heroic in self sacrifice for a
virtuous cause. But Life Magic is still the other side of the same coin
as far as I'm concerned.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 15:02:22 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Hacking Security Tallies (Was Re: Weird Campaigns)

DisnyShaman wrote:
>Hey,. here's an idea. Howsabout waiting around in a system for hours
>or days or whatever (ain't IV great?) for a sec tally to drop, then
>forging on from sratch. Time-consuming, but for those hypersensitive
>systems with the *big* IC....

Kid's, don't try this at home.
see Null Operation, page 117, VR2.0

Double-Domed Mike
--Hack and the World Hacks with You
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 15:14:03 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Airwasp <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: EW-209 (was : Aztec Armored Troopers)
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Okay guys, here ya go ...

=============================================================

<<<<<[Okay everybody, the following is a file that a friend of mine, Gonzo,
got for us, and he also so kindly provided commentary that he himself either
overheard or whatever. And since these things have begun to show up in places
like the Barrens and Puyallup, I decided we needed more info on this fragger.
So, Gonzo, thanks for the file ...]>>>>>
-- Slipshade (SYSOP / Seattle Shadowlands)

Lone Star EW-209

<<<<<[Okay, you wanna know where they got the name EW-209 from ? It was
originally the ED-209 until someone said, "Eeew, what a mess," hence, EW-209.
Gee Lone Star, thanks a fragging lot.]>>>>>

Handling Speed Accel Body Armor Sig
4/2 25 7 2 12 3

Autonav Pilot Sensors Cargo Load
NA 3 5 0 600 kg

<<<<<[Okay, something else I got from the files also, the thing can carry
an
additional load of some 550+ kilograms, as in the early field-tests the thing
kept tipping over whenever someone jumped onto the thing.]>>>>>

Seating : NA
Entry Points : NA
Fuel : Diesel (55 liters)
Point Value : 2,989
Template :Crawler (Tracked), Large (Military)
S/BT : 8 minutes
L/ToP : NA
Economy : 4 km / liter
Cost (Drone) : 218,175+ 64,530 (weapons)
Reference : NA
Other Features
Anti-Theft VI + Self-Destruct (blows self up only)
Armor, Standard (12)
Drive-By-Wire I
Gunnery Control System (modified Sentry Gun System)
Intelligence = 11
Gunnery = 10
Initiative = 25 + 2d6

<<<<<[Okay, guess what ? The boys from Houston came up with something new
for
us to fear now. This sentry gun system, if it looses communication or is
commanded to do so, will open fire on whatever it can "see" if the pilot is
compromised or the thing won't move anymore. Supposedly this thing can also
be commanded to do this also, I've heard someone call this "Schizoid
Mode."]>>>>>

Improved Off-Road Handling +2
Remote Control Interface
Rigger Adaption
Roll Bars
Small Remote AA Turret (Smartlink II Integration, Recoil Adjusters (9))

<<<<<[Guys, this puts the thing in the MILITARY category of weaponry. When
you can stick something like a small turret on an almost standard tracked
drone all frag is gonna break loose]>>>>>

Smart Materials
Spotlights (White-Light and Low-Wattage)

Weapon Systems
Vengeance MMG + 300 rounds Standard Vehicular ammunition
Top-Mount MGL-6 Grenade Launch Pistol + 6 Concussion Grenades (or whatever
else you may choose)

<<<<<[A suggestion for anyone who may see this thing, if you don't have
something which can hurt it, RUN !]>>>>>

-- Gonzo (2245 / 10 - Oct - 2059)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 15:12:30 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Weird Campaigns -Reply

<Snip real world example from Sommers>

>In no way does my screwup with my password affect my neighbor's
>ability or rights to login.

What if your computer's security included pattern recognition software
that noticed what might be someone using a password cracker: it would
issue an alert, wouldn't it? What if it detected system logs getting
messed with to remove traces of a user's actions? These are things
that are represented by a security tally. Nowadays, these get logged,
and on a big computer there is the equivalent of an alert, but we don't
have ICE in 1998, so there isn't much point in most of this stuff--yet. If
we had expert systems that we pretty good at distinguishing valid from
invalid patterns of use (Probe ICE) a lot of sysadmins would write
scripts that started them running if a lot of bad login attempts occured in
a short period of time, or if a user started playing with file permisions on
files he shouldn't care about.

Double-Domed Mike
--I'm out of ideas for sigs...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 15:31:44 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Teleporation
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Erik Jameson wrote:
>>I have a feeling that the blood magic in the GGD was a little more pure than
>>the Aztlan blood magic, due to the voluntary nature of the sacrifice.
>
>Define "pure." If I recall my ED, there are those (including Lightbearers
>I'm pretty sure) that strongly believe that Life Magic is just a prettier
>name for Blood Magic.

As I recall, Blood Magic in ED isn't a bad thing. Sure, it can offend
those who are a bit squeamish, but everybody acknowledges that
involuntary sacrifices are a bad thing. Voluntary sacrifices are quite
common - it's the most popular method of artifact creation, the ED
equivalent of cyberware (you can get toys powered by your blood).

As with everything else, people tend to get upset when it's taken to
its extremes, though (can you say "Blood Wood"? :-).

>I think in SR terms we could say that the background count from those two
>actions would be different in "taste" only. The raw power levels would be
>similar, but Blood Magic would taste very, very bad, while Life Magic would
>only taste bad (since the Essence was taken voluntarily).

Well, the BC goes up anywhere a lot of emotions have been concentrated
(the more emotion at a time, the bigger the count). One example was
a church.

>I think in Awakenings there's a debate on this same topic if I recall
>correctly. I guess I'm with the crew that sees Life Magic as a pretty name
>for Blood Magic. But your opinions may vary of course.

I don't think that "blood magic" should have negative connotations -
it's just drawing from life energy. What you do with your blood is
your business. The problem lies when somebody else decides that it's
time for you to make a donation...

James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 15:50:14 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Hacking Security Tallies (Was Re: Weird Campaigns)
In-Reply-To: <s56442c9.079@********.dragonsys.com> from "Mike Elkins" at
May
21, 98 02:57:10 pm
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>
> >Yep, I agree with this one, for the hard core ultra-secure places. But
> >for the less secure places, it may be a bit more painful.
>
> I can't imagine any Green or higher system NOT requiring a special
> hardware procedure to modify the basic security setup. You can't
> locate the ICE's executeable file and delete it before it gets triggered, for
> example. There is NO reason a legitimate remote user should be able to
> reconfigure the security on your system. You should only need to do
> that a couple of times a year.
>
Yes and no. I do and have friends who do alot of consulting. Being
able to do EVERYTHING remotely is often necessary. (its why
I love Unix over NT, IMHO :)). Its always a tradeoff.
Besides the other part is what is more expensive/time consuming to upgrade
hardware or software. (Imagine everytime a new version of sendmail
came out, having to go around to each box, pull out an old card and
put in a new one). Ah well..the problem is as always, real life analogies
don't always translate perfectly to shadworun. :)

> For an ultra-secure system, there would be the key, plus a keypad for
> password. The key could only be turned when the machine was OFF,
> and the machine would not connect to the matrix until the key was
> turned back to the "secure" position. In addition, any time the key was in
> place, the room lighting would go red and a bell would sound, all under
> hardware--not software--control.
>
True. For an ultra-secure system I'll buy it. (Most of the Ultra Secure
systems I've thought up, aren't even connected to the matrix directly.
Usually via somesort of proxy server, or one way gateway).


--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The universe doesn't have laws, it has habits. And habits can be broken.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 16:03:38 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jessica Grota <grota@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: (Back on topic) Insect spirits living in my bathroom
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Craig J Wilhelm Jr wrote:
>
> >> What about a hornet? They aren't big nasty critters - if you leave them
> >> alone they'll leave you alone. Not only that but many of the PCs would
> >> think it was a wasp and be terrified :)
>
> >I beg to differ!
>
> Me too!
>
> >Hornets are ornery buggers. I've been holding the
> >homefront against them for a couple weeks now: they're all over my
> >house, in my yard, etc.
>
> Call an exterminator pronto! Never try to take out their hive on your
> own. Since they're all armed and likely smarter than all of us, they will
> open up a can 'o wh00p ass and pour that noise all over you...
>
> >I've seen them attack and kill bumblebees
>
> ...and dogs and cats and horses and cows and people... (Oh my!)


I have NO intention of taking on the buggers (or buggies, as the case
may be) on my own. I just gotta FIND the hive before I can get an
exterminator. I've narrowed it down to under the deck and the eave of
the house, but I still gotta figure out HOW they're getting inside.
There's no holes in any of the window screens big enough to let a 2-inch
long insect in... Anyway, glad I could bring some levity to the board
yet again. And, to prove that, indeed, I stayed mostly on topic, let me
go on the record as saying that I would NOT want to mess with a hive of
Hornet spirits. ;P

--Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 16:10:10 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jessica Grota <grota@*********.COM>
Subject: Change of address
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Yupyup, the mighty Jettster has finally got her own e-mail addy. I'll be
at zmjett@*********.com from now on. The old address, in the meantime,
becomes my business e-mail, so it will still be operative. But high and
mighty ShadwRN rulers, take note.

--Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 16:15:29 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: DisnyShamn <DisnyShamn@***.COM>
Subject: Skill Level 0
Mime-Version: 1.0
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(A subject which often could decribe my typing ability, btw :)

> This brings up a thought. Why can't a skill be brought to 0? Effectively
> the person starts out with a Concentration Skill level?

I, personally, allow exactly that in my game.

BTW, Craig, if you're reading this, I'm considering the idea of necessary
concentrations for physical sciences...

- Disney Shaman
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 16:17:28 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sommers <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Weird Campaigns
In-Reply-To: <739a78a.3564601c@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:10 PM 5/21/98 EDT, you wrote:
>>From Sommers, the following:
>
>> Third time, you're in trouble. The login won't work until you sever your
>> connection, ie. reboot the system. Even then, you cannot use that account
>> to log in. The security program (a subroutine of the network program)
>> temporarily marks that account with NO access rights and sends a page to
>> the netadmin. He has to log onto a terminal somewhere as a superuser, go
>> into the security program, and reset the guy's account.
>>
>> In now way does my screwup with my password affect my neighbor's
ability or
>> rights to login.
>
>Where the analogy breaks down is, the SR decker is presumably not using the
>same "account" when he logs in each time. How's the system to know that
Decker
>Bob, coming in for a second try, is any different from legit user Steve,
>coming in to check his e-mail?

No, he almost definitely doesn't use the same account unless he has a user
name that he knows the password for. I imagine what happens is his masking
(or maybe sleaze) has a program that generates a user/password combo that
fools the system into thinking that an authorized user (or systems check,
etc) is logging on. But those programs would have certain flaws in them,
like using similar types of login names. The higher the program, the more
random those files are that are used. The better the security, the closer
it checks for those kind of anomolies.

>Or, for a more symmetrical example, that Decker Bob, coming in for try #2, is
>any different from Decker Cindy, coming in for the first time that day?
>
>See, the problem with an individual tally is that you can just sign off and
>then back on again; also, you can "tag-team" a datarun and take turns doing
>things, "spreading out" the tally. (Of course, it stands to reason that you
>SHOULD be able to benefit from having buds)
>
>- Disney Shaman

The other thing that this software can track is where the data is coming
from. For us, its the IP number of the system that they're logging into.
For SR, the decker has to get in from SOMEWHERE, whether its the phone in
his apartment, a terminal inside the archology, or a soda machine in the
basement. That entry point has to have an address (an IP for us) that
corresponds to where the data is coming in. You can track that data in the
security program, seeing that in 20 seconds 10 different users put in the
wrong password. And its hard to fake that IP number (for lack of a better
term) because then the computer wouldn't know where the data is coming
from. Likely result is loss of data and crash of program.

That also explains why its easier to deck from a point inside the physical
building. The security system is going to check data and users inside the
system less than outside lines (and its not going to check to soda machine
very often)!

So if 2 deckers come in from 2 diff points, there's going to be a tally for
each of them. If they both went in at the same point, they're tally's
would be added together. But global alerts would not be set off from a few
deckers unless they did some major, loud damage.

Sommers
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 16:19:51 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: DisnyShamn <DisnyShamn@***.COM>
Subject: Re: More thoughts about clones and magic
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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evamarie writes:

> BTW, the "teleport" spell you areproposing already exists, sorta, in
> awkenings. It is called"possesion", and could probably be cast
> ritually, on a clone of the mage (or whoever). However, the mages OLD
> body must not die, and the spell is sustained duration. A "permenant"
> version would seem unlikely, as would one that allowed you to let your
> old body die.

Ladies and Gentlemen... May I introduce Biomancy...


- Disney Shaman
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 16:05:14 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Magic
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
>
> Re: Blood Magic (Your gonna hate this one ...[well maybe :) ]) (Alfredo B Alves , Wed
12:50)

Blood mages are ALL intiates (blood magic is a metamagical technique),
and genrally, starting characters can't be intiates. That out of the
way, "what if";

> To clarify on the second option:
> Option 1: The Mage spends the appropriate points on spells learned for
> Blood Magic and says he won't use them. (dangerous....)

I'm not a big fan of anybody spending points for something they "won't"
use. If he spends the points, let him use it. He could also maybe get
flaw points for having a geas AGAINT using that kind of magic, or it
being an oath violation, or some such, but don't even bring it up if it
"can't be done".

>
> Option 2: The Mage doesn't spend the appropriate points on spells
> learned for Blood Magic and since he won't use them. (Not as dangerous
> but, the char can still summon Blood Spirits :/ [of course he WON'T,
> right?])

The above restrictions (oath, geas, maybe other intiate group
strictures) could similarly limit summoning. More to the point, no, he
WON'T summon blood spirits, unless he does it in a consecrated teocali
(the only wasy it can be done). I'd think he'd be staying WELL AWAY
from those, genarally. :)
It WOULD be possible to play a blood mage who left BEFORE learning any
blood spells, but AFAIK, he could still design such spells, and even
possibally teach others blood magic.

-Mongoose X
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 16:05:32 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Pool Use
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Re: Pool Use (was; Summer Time) (Alfredo B Alves , Wed 19:04)

> >> For sake of this argument, I'll assume pools represent your
> "focus
> >>and concentration" on the task you are doing", and that current
pool
> values
> >>are good and useful for the given areas.
>
> >Reasonable assumption but nobody, including the DLOH, seems to know why
> we
> >have dice pools. It's an important game mechanic, but no one seems to
> have
> >the concrete answer as to why it even exists.
>

OK, THAT could make a nice long summer thread.... WhatARE the dice
pools. I agree, certain ones are crucial as gameemchanics, because they
well simulate "agressive" Vs "defensive" tactics- youcould dothesame
thing with TN mods, but TN mods are TO big an effect, often,and also
don't give the same bonus of incresing possible staging. his applies to
ALL the normal pools, all of which can in some way be used for damage
resistance.

> Actually, It was my understanding that Dice Pools represent Natural
> Ability in certain areas...

I thinkthat is SKILL, actually. With high firearms skill, you can pop
off shots without looking that would take plent of pool normally.

> The Combat, Atheltic, and Social Pools (the
> last two are optional pools from SRCo) represents the character's natural
> Aptitude (Ahnold Shwahtzeneagger should easily be able to kick the snot
> out of Pee Wee Herman ...)

Is Ahnolds quickness, intellegence, and willpower that much higher than
Pee Wee's? Maybe, but I think the greater effect is his higher skill,
strenght, and body. More to the point, P can't hurt A. Thatdoesn't
mean P has no ability to focus in combat- he just has no skills to focus
ON.

> while the Magic, and Hacking Pools represent
> the characters supperior knowledge (and in the case of the Hacking Pool,
> supperior resources/natural ability). The Control Pool represents the
> character's supperior reaction time and awareness while rigged as well as
> a few other factors ... All IMO :)

Again, all could as easily represent the trained / technologically
agmented abilty to focus you attention on what you are doing.
Control poolis an interesting example, because those without a VCR
don't even get one. Your reaction time can be almost as good without
one, but you still don't get a pool- I think because you just can't "get
into" the task enough to get the pool.

>
> ><snipped>
> >> Does this seem reasonable? Is it a"problem" that even
needs
> fixing?
> >>The example of mages using combat pool for damage resistance only (and
> >>thus having more availible there than samuria) indicates to me it DOES
> >>need fixing.
>
> >Actually, I don't really think it needs fixing. BUT if I were to have
> to
> >come up with a solution to the problem you posit, I wouldn't use your
> >answer. It isn't an original idea, but I think it would be better then
> to
> >use a single pool for everything.
> >
> >Call it a "Shadow Pool" or something, a group of dice that can be used
> by
> >shadowrunners. Not sure of what it would be, but if you accept that
> pools
> >are a byproduct of focus and concentration, you could make this pool
> >INT+WILL/2 or something.
> >

I don't like that, because it removes the unique effect certain wares
have on certain pools, meaning there is less diffrenece in prefered
wares between riggers, deckeres, and samurai. Its not ludicrous, but it
seems less "accurate". The idea I posed has a similar effect, while
preserving the valuesof the individual pools, so I guess I could go
either way.


> I don't think it needs fixing either ... IMO, the dice pools represent
> very little extra effort ... However, If *I* were to "fix" em, I'd make
> the Dice Pools smaller and make them available in full for every skill
> roll ... but this would get out of hand ... I think they work well enough
> as is :)

You mean make them more like THREAT? Hmm, that might work, although
just a 1 die diffrence would be a bigish edge. Howver, MAGIC DEFENSE
would get thrown out of whack- as it is, mage NPC's really should be run
with magic pools like PC's.

For those who DON'T think full multiple pools are an "unfair edge", I
point out a scenario- Two characters are about to be rushed by a mob.
One is a mage, the other a samurai with a gun.

Both have a complex action beforebeing rushed. The mage casts a spell,
dumping all his magic pool into it (for casting or drain- whichever-
either makes for alikely nasty spell). The Samurai has one higher
Firearms than the mage, to even the karma cost of the spell, and
shoots. He'll either use comabt pool to get good effect (especially if
going for multiple targets), or do less damage than the mage (If the
mage used an area effect, we'll give the samurai a grenades, and the
same still holds genrally true).
OK, now they get rushed, and do HTH combat. Assuming similar stats,
the mage will have more combat pool left than the samurai, meaning he
has more dice to put into hi meelle. WHY? Is he better prepared (the
samuri can drop his gun and do HTH just fine)? Is casting a spell a
less distracting form of offense? Are mages natuarally able to fucus on
more things?
It seems rather dubious to me that the Samurai is less able to fight
HTH than the mage, just because his pervious action was firing a gun or
using some other combat skill as opposed to using a spell.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 16:05:42 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Weird Campaigns
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> > Re: Weird Campaigns
(DisnyShamn , Wed 19:14)

> I seem to recall a reference in VR2 to systems remaining "alert" for awhile
> after a decker has logged off. This would necessitate some sort of globalness
> of security tally. I'd suggest a compromise;
>

Yes, the "passive" and "active" allerts, whichraise sunbsystem
ratings
and such, DO affect all users / intruders.That will tend to raise thier
tally, as theywon't be acomplishing thierjob so easily.
The "Host reset" example also gives an example ofonedecker jacking up a
tallly, and logging of, then another logging in, and the IC still being
active, but as that was theonly exampleof one deckers tally dirrectly
affecting anothers, I assumed it was an editing brain fart.

> Let's look at what happens when a security tally is raised; the system becomes
> increasingly "aware" of an intruder; alarms are going off. Now, this
SHOULD,
> if the system had an at-all-logical designer, kick in some general diagnostics
> and whatnot.

Hence the "Passive" and "active" alerts.

>But the more you do, the easier it will be to locate you, in
> particular. I can think of a few ways to do this; one requires some
> bookkeeping, another monkeys with the rules in VR2 a bit and makes any long
> duration very nasty, and the last makes team-decking a bt too safe.
>

Long duration decking is already VERY nasty. In case youhad not
noticed,there is NO way to reduce your security tally, short of logging
off for a while. Since the tally is just of ANY succeses VS your
deception, having a lot of skill doesn't prevent it, it just lets you
get the job done beforemondo IC apears. Once theIC does apear, you'll
be wasting more time on evasion, driving up the tally by killing it,
orreducing your deception by supressing it. All of those will hamper
your work.

> 1. Security tally IS global, but a given user/decker is tracked ONLY from the
> point at which he entered the system. That is, if Decker Bob had a tally of 12
> when Decker Cindy-Lu-Hoo comes in, the can both raise the tally, but for her
> it starts at 0.
> Example: if he raises it another 2 and she blunders it up by 3, it's raised a
> total of 5 for both, raising him to 17, but her to only 5.
>

That would make SOME sense. It at least removes the posibility that
you log in and get nuked. "GM; Oh, well some other deckerwas in
system."

> 2. The Sec Tally somehow LOWERS the decker's Detection rating. Every 3 points
> or something? Thus, the longer a decker is in the system, the more obviously
> he/she is the target, but it'd still be a danger to say security deckers doing
> illegal stuff (it might notice them, it's just mroe likely to notice the
> other).
>

Bad idea- see above comments- decking is hard enough already. The
Passive and active allerts already have a similar effect, as does the
very frequently used Probe IC.

> 3. Tally is figured individually, only until two people even out; then it's
> cumulative.
> Example: Decker Bob is at 12 again when Decker Cindy arrives. She accumulates
> a tally normally, but doesn't trigger anything until she hits 12 (unless Bob
> gains some; anyway, until she's even with Bob); he has "blazed a datatrail"
> fro her, and she can avoid sprung IC. Once they're even, they add to one
> another's tally.
>

That will make Cindy's job pretty easy, if Bob can avoid getting
hammered while pulling null ops or something. If Bob had killed the
IC, sure, I could see it won't bother her.

> 4. (Probably simplest) Sec tallies are partially global; that is, most of it
> is individual, each decker gaining a seperate tally as "normal", but some
> pervcentage (say, every 5th level) adds to a "general tally", increasing
> EVERYONE'S tally (though this will only trigger IC on the person(s) actually
> performing the action).
>

Again, the various alert levels have a similar effect.

I can see various "tally sharing" schemes being valid (adressinganybody
not displaying all passcodes), but A) Decking teams areuncommon, so rare
as to notbe considered a security threat & B) Things are already quite
hard for the lone decker (if thier deception factor is less than 10 or
so & C) if you are so sure somebody is using the wrong passcodes, just
DUMP them- why mess around even tracking a tally if somebody can be
distinguished as "bad" so easily (which tracking cumulative tally for
all "intruders", but not applying it to users, implies).

-Mongoose X
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 16:05:24 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Pool Use
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Re: Pool Use (was; Summer Time) (Mike Elkins , Wed 17:21)
>
> <Snip: Using one pool should reduce them all>
>
> You are correct. One of those factoids I learned studying cognitive
> science is that the more skilled you are in a task, the less concentration
> it takes.

Well,higher skill means you can do the same job (roll the same
dice)with less pool use- is that what you meant?
This does break down some for magic pool use, at least under SR2
rules..

>
> Wafflemeister's proposed rule is a good compromise between playability and accuracy,
although there are two features I don't like about it. Joe Mage (Magic Pool 8, Combat Pool
3): Spends his full attention dodging lead (spends 3 CP), but can still cast spells with
5MP. or Spends almost no attention on a spell (1MP) and looses a full 1/3 of his combat
pool. (this one isn't so bad, spliting ones > attention is hard).

NO, thats NOT how I wrote my proposal. His one MP die could come "off
the top" of his magic pool, notaffecting combat at all. Only if he uses
more than 5 magic dice would it cutinto his combat pool. Anypool dice
used from a pool of equal or smaller size reduce the other pools sizes.

Think of it this way:

Magic dice o o o o o o o o
Comabt dice o o o

Now, you can pull from the farthest right colum for any action.
Pulling combat would obviouslyaffect both rows- pulling magic usually
would NOT.
(Note that I would proabaly actually DO just this with some dice- I
actually keep special colored dice for my pools physically sitting on my
character sheet. Avoids ANY confusion as to available pool.)


> I can't think of a playable counter-proposal, however. If you don't mind
> doing some math during character creation you could change pools into
> "Cost Per Die".
<SNIP>
> As I said, I don't have a _playable_ alternate proposal.

No, that is NOT playable, and I CAN do math in my head. I just can't
remember multiple muti-digit numbars while trying to figure out sveral
other things; traking availible dicepoints would be a PAIN. :) Its the
right basic effect, but I actually like the effect I gave above (duh-
hence my posting it), especially for its easy "physical representation"
as digramed.


-Mongoose X
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 16:44:36 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: (ot) Insect spirits living in my bathroom (was: insectspirits)
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 5/21/98 11:34:22 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA writes:

> Wow! MC23 revealing yet more personal information! Mecklenburg County,
> MC23 - that's convenient, isn't it? Now what's the 23 for...
> ["You have been watching the MC23 decoding project, now in it's 1st day.
> Eventually, we hope to understand just what makes MC23 MC23. Tune in
> next week when we begin to tackle the second half of the equation."]
>
> :-)
>
> James Ojaste
>
You're close and so far still James...good luck...

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 17:02:06 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MgkellyMP5 <MgkellyMP5@***.COM>
Subject: Re: (Back on topic) Insect spirits living in my bathroom
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 98-05-21 15:58:32 EDT, you write:

<< I have NO intention of taking on the buggers (or buggies, as the case
may be) on my own. I just gotta FIND the hive before I can get an
exterminator. I've narrowed it down to under the deck and the eave of
the house, but I still gotta figure out HOW they're getting inside.
There's no holes in any of the window screens big enough to let a 2-inch
long insect in... Anyway, glad I could bring some levity to the board
yet again. And, to prove that, indeed, I stayed mostly on topic, let me
go on the record as saying that I would NOT want to mess with a hive of
Hornet spirits. ;P

--Jett
>>

Back on topic. Know what kills regular bugs and Insect Spirits well (usually)?
Duct tape a frag to a couple cans of Raid and toss them into the nest. It
might not kill them outright, but it can weaken them and make them a lot less
difficult to kill (usually).

Mgkelly--"I take no responsibility for the actions of people with nothing
better to do than
listen to me."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 17:29:21 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: EW-209 (was : Aztec Armored Troopers)
In-Reply-To: <739724a.35647cfc@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 03:14 PM 5/21/98 EDT, you wrote:
>Okay guys, here ya go ...

First glance...OUCH!!

Second glance...Ouch, but only a Body of Two (tabs screwed up the viewing,
but I think I drew that over properly)? Seems then like anything that can
get past the twelve points of armor would pop the ED-209 pretty quickly.
But still, to get past vehicle armor of 12, you have to have a base damage
code of 13 or better, which eliminates 90% of the weapons available to
shadowrunners. As an "Urban Pacification Unit" this would be outstanding.
As a combat unit, it would probably suck simply because in a war I'd expect
heavier weapons, probably things like LAWs and the like.

BTW, what's the price on that bad boy? Seems like it would likely be very
expensive.

I think I'll forward that back to my home address and make plans to sick
one of those (or something similar anyway) on my players.

Erik J.

"Put the weapon down. You have ten seconds to comply."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 17:32:40 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Teleporation
In-Reply-To: <cÊ%a=GOVMT.CANADA%p=GC+EC%lìNCR_EXCH2-980521193144Z-19
202@***.ncr.ec.gc.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 03:31 PM 5/21/98 -0400, you wrote:

>>Define "pure." If I recall my ED, there are those (including
Lightbearers
>>I'm pretty sure) that strongly believe that Life Magic is just a prettier
>>name for Blood Magic.
>
>As I recall, Blood Magic in ED isn't a bad thing. Sure, it can offend
>those who are a bit squeamish, but everybody acknowledges that
>involuntary sacrifices are a bad thing. Voluntary sacrifices are quite
>common - it's the most popular method of artifact creation, the ED
>equivalent of cyberware (you can get toys powered by your blood).

Yeah, the blood charms and the like. But some, most notably the
Lightbearers have a serious thing against that form of magic.

As I recall, Blood Magic first popped up before the Scourge. I can't
recall if it was simply a way to boost your power of it was seen as a way
to channel power without having to pump as much raw magic (which was
increasingly tainted) through you. I think blood magic was invented before
spell matrices were.

>As with everything else, people tend to get upset when it's taken to
>its extremes, though (can you say "Blood Wood"? :-).

True.

>I don't think that "blood magic" should have negative connotations -
>it's just drawing from life energy. What you do with your blood is
>your business. The problem lies when somebody else decides that it's
>time for you to make a donation...


See, I do have a problem with it. I have this bad feeling that "what you
do with your blood" is someone else's business and that Blood/Life Magic
carries with it a certain taint.

But as I said before, your opinions can and do vary. You, and others,
don't seem to have a big problem with Life Magic. And I'm sure I'm not
alone in my distrust and dislike of it.

Erik J.

Fight the Future on June 19th!!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 22:55:50 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: (ot) Insect spirits living in my bathroom (was: insectspirits)
In-Reply-To: <19980521165618.1626.qmail@*******.com> from "Matthew
Waddilove"
at May 21, 98 09:56:17 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
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And verily, did Matthew Waddilove hastily scribble thusly...
|Ah-ha Spike I've got you now cackled CV47EZ :)

Coventry?

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:01:14 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: (ot) Insect spirits living in my bathroom (was: insectspirits)
In-Reply-To: <199805211642.JAA00017@*********.cobaltgroup.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> nasties still alive. But that's what they did. Now Chicago has got a
> messed up astral space, floating clouds of Strain III Beta, and a pissed
> off Ghoul population.

I`d almost have preferred the bugs ;)

Lady Jestyr

- I'm in touch with my Inner Klingon... -
| Elle Holmes | jestyr@**********.com | http://jestyr.home.ml.org |
| Shadowrun Webring Ringmaster | GeoCities Leader | RPGA Reviewer |
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 23:03:39 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Teleporation
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980521135912.0a1ff7fc@****.fbiz.com> from "Erik
Jameson" at May 21, 98 05:32:40 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did Erik Jameson hastily scribble thusly...
|As I recall, Blood Magic first popped up before the Scourge. I can't
|recall if it was simply a way to boost your power of it was seen as a way
|to channel power without having to pump as much raw magic (which was
|increasingly tainted) through you. I think blood magic was invented before
|spell matrices were.

Actually, blood magic popped up first with such things as "Blood Oaths".
They originally were just symbolic, and didn't hold any actual power, but as
their use grew, abd peoples belief in them grew, the people were suddenly
suprised to find that they began to hold power over the oath-makers (and
breakers).

The rest of blood magic sprang from that....


--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 16:03:34 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Re: I'm back
In-Reply-To: <001a01bd8479$12b36d60$0ee290d1@*******>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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> Hi all you happy people; It's been a good year and a half since I was on
> the list.

Welcome back..and congrats on your good fortune..

--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
Kind of a bummer. Gettin' your butt kicked by a dead guy.
- Lt Col McQueen
Understanding is a three edged sword. - Kosh
What is best in life?
To Crush Your Enemies,
To See Them Driven Before You,
To Hear The Lamentation Of Their Women. -Conan
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:57:19 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: (ot) Insect spirits living in my bathroom (was: insect
spirits)
In-Reply-To: <3563D844.4FC6@*********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> Yeah, okay, so in case you couldn't tell I'm afraid of bugs. But at
> least I do my best to make sure that bugs are scared of me, too.

<grin> What a wonderful story...

Lady Jestyr

- I'm in touch with my Inner Klingon... -
| Elle Holmes | jestyr@**********.com | http://jestyr.home.ml.org |
| Shadowrun Webring Ringmaster | GeoCities Leader | RPGA Reviewer |
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:02:04 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Fully Active Aura Cloning [OT]
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980521111949.0a1f21ae@****.fbiz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> Sorry, make that wrench and not spanner. I've just started re-reading the
> six books of the Hitchhiker's Guide Trilogy, and "spanner" gets used about
> a once per page on the first 20-30 pages...

SiX??

What comes after Mostly Harmless?

Lady Jestyr

- I'm in touch with my Inner Klingon... -
| Elle Holmes | jestyr@**********.com | http://jestyr.home.ml.org |
| Shadowrun Webring Ringmaster | GeoCities Leader | RPGA Reviewer |
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 00:26:04 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Fully Active Aura Cloning [OT]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980522090129.27560H-100000@*******.dialix.com.au>
from "Lady Jestyr" at May 22, 98 09:02:04 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Lady Jestyr hastily scribble thusly...
|
|> Sorry, make that wrench and not spanner. I've just started re-reading the
|> six books of the Hitchhiker's Guide Trilogy, and "spanner" gets used about
|> a once per page on the first 20-30 pages...
|
|SiX??
|
|What comes after Mostly Harmless?

Nothing...

Let's think....
Hitch-hikers guide.
Restaraunt at the end of the universe.
Life the universe and everything.
So long, and thanks for all the fish.
and
Yup, nothing after Mostly Harmless...
(Not really possible for there to be if you think about it)

Still in a good mood after seeing Guards! Guards! this very night.
(Much funnier than Addams now... I think he lost his edge.)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 19:26:35 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: DisnyShamn <DisnyShamn@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Weird Campaigns
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

From Sommers:

> The other thing that this software can track is where the data is coming
> from. For us, its the IP number of the system that they're logging into.
> For SR, the decker has to get in from SOMEWHERE, whether its the phone in
> his apartment, a terminal inside the archology, or a soda machine in the
> basement. That entry point has to have an address (an IP for us) that
> corresponds to where the data is coming in. You can track that data in the
> security program, seeing that in 20 seconds 10 different users put in the
> wrong password. And its hard to fake that IP number (for lack of a better
> term) because then the computer wouldn't know where the data is coming
> from. Likely result is loss of data and crash of program.

But isn't that what trace IC is for?

- Disney Shaman
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 19:31:02 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: DisnyShamn <DisnyShamn@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Magic
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 5/21/98 4:37:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
evamarie@**********.net writes:

> > To clarify on the second option:
> > Option 1: The Mage spends the appropriate points on spells learned for
> > Blood Magic and says he won't use them. (dangerous....)
>
> I'm not a big fan of anybody spending points for something they
"won'
> t"
> use. If he spends the points, let him use it. He could also maybe get
> flaw points for having a geas AGAINT using that kind of magic, or it
> being an oath violation, or some such, but don't even bring it up if it
> "can't be done".

This is an idea. How's about a 1-point edge for knowing blood magic but having
a Geas against it (that can't be lifted through initiation for whatever karmic
reason). An edge bcasue the character CAN do it if he absolutely has to, even
though it'll cost him. Also, he could, presumably teach it. n fact, this might
bring more than its value in flaws, because of the "Mage Who Knew too Much"
factor. Blood magic orders tend to be a bit secretive about their techniques,
you know...

- Disney Shaman
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 19:01:58 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wafflemeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Ultra Boy in Shadowrun
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Ultra Boy in Shadowrun (Demosthenes Three , Wed 10:49)
>
> If any of you read DC Comics' Legion of Superheroes, then you already
> know what this is about.

UM. Legion of Superhero's. OK (sound of crowbar being shoved into
raidly closing mind. OUCH). I'll keep an open mind. (Wince.) Really,
I will. (Creak, strain.)
[Actually, I like the CONCEPT a bit, but the execution gets sticky,
especially in cyber.]

> Basically, Ultra Boy has all the powers of Superman, but he is limited
> to only using one of them at a time.
>
> For a Shadowrun twist to the idea, what about a street samurai that
> has a TON of cyberware implanted in him, with the limitation that he
> can only access one system

Cyberware's essence cost is iregardless of its "acsessability". If you
have a wired 3 implant, and it gets damaged to the point where it does
you no good (happened to one of my characters), you can't just go out
and get a but load of new cyber- you have to get the wires removed, so
they are not costing you essence still. THEN you get the essence slot
filled.
Also, note that wires turned off with a reflex trigger do not stop
costing essence- in fact, the reflex trigger ADDS to the essence cost.

>
> Let's say that Corp X has developed a cross-redundant system of
> cyberware. Let's call it CyberSuite7.
> Basically they have managed to take Wired Reflexes 3, Muscle
> Replacement 4, a Vehicle Control Rig 3, and maybe some headware, and
> senseware gear, and wire the systems together into one compact,
> semi-essence friendly package.
> However the method that allowed this gear to all fit together,
> (without cybermancy) only allows the user to power one system at a time.
> If you use Wired 3, then you won't be able to access your Headware
> Memory, or Skillwires, etc.

As noted above, whether the system is powered or not has nothing to do
with essence cost. Less extreme (but still quite impressive) versions
of the above effects can be achieved with conventional cyber / bio
packages (maybe some alpha / betaware)- minus the "powerdown" effect,
which is of very dubious benefit or penalty.

> Hmmm ... tweaking this as I go, maybe the Muscle Replacement doesn't
> really make sense as part of a suite. But IMO Wired Reflexes,
> Skillwires, Headware Memory, and other nervous system mods could
> theoretically be combined to use the same wiring, with the "One at a
> Time" restriction.
>

Skillwires and wired reflexes are quite diffrent (and skillwires much
lower in essence cost anyhow), and memory is in a complete other
catagory of implants (headware VS bodyware). How would they be
combined?
Unfortunately, this just SMACKS of the "mudualar cyber" idea- the
effect is about the same, only better, as you don't actually have to
remove cyber moduals, they just "shut off". Decent concept, bad idea.

> Other twists - You could allow a user to access multiple systems with
> a willpower roll, and then add in some overstress rules, ala, Rigger
> 2. Icky - I'd hate to see what happens when your wired reflexes
> overheat! :)

The "overstress" idea would make more sense for a single piece of cyber
with variable levels of effect. Maybe something with the aproximate
cost of wired 2, that worked likewired 1,but could bejumped to level 2
at a +1 to all tn's, and to level 3, at a +2 to all Tn's. Similarly,
you could allow "rediculous" muscle / strength augmentation, with Damage
done to the user based only on stregth USED. Check Shadwotech's
attribute "biosystem overstess" rules (p 7) for a similar (non-variable
level) idea. This is not something I'd use, but it makes more sense in
the games structure and technology than one piece of cyber that does
multiple seprate things.

<Broad genrality from egotistical soapbox preacher>
Generally, introducing new cyber is kinda dicey, and I doubt you'll
ever hear overwhelming support for a new cyber ide from the list. This
is because cyber statsand types arethe only elements thatbalnce cyber
power, unlike ssy spells, which have the balancing element of drain (as
well as published guidlines for creation, unlike new cyber).
Even some FASA introduced implant items have a noticable tipping effect
(good or bad) when allowed broadly in a game- Bioware is one case in
point, Dermal sheathes and reflex enhancers being another (more subtle)
example. Certain "obvious" SOTA advances are just plain BAD as far as
playabel game balance goes. FASAisgood about not pushing published gear
TO far, but even that gear can be wrong for some types of campaign.
</BGFESP>

>
> This idea works rather well for physical adepts as well.

Yes, magic is a genrally a much better route for the entire concept.

As mentioned by another poster, you could put a geas of "exclusive use"
on an ability, reducing its cost to x.75 normal.

"Swiss army" adepts get just as abusable as the above
"VersaCyber"
package, but I've seen some ok rules for taking a good long time to use
meditation for changing your adept powers. They were written by Jolly
Roger (taz@*****.mit.edu), and are in the back of a net-book on physads
called "The really complete but still rather unoficial Physical Adepts
Handybook", which may or may not still be around. I've since seen
better rules for the samething on another Physad related web-page (check
the archive,under "magic", for "fixing physads", I think the link is
there). Basically, these later rules work better and have better
balanced costs.

This is a totally different aproach, but, in a pinch, I'd say you could
"un-spend" a point by risking a magic loss roll. If you make the roll,
you loose the power, but not the point, and can spend the point on
something else (limited to raising powers you have, to prevent 1-magic
physads or other adepts with free points from using any sense in the
bookwhen needed, and similar cracked-out antics). This would be an
exclusive, complex action for each part. Flub the roll, you loose the
power AND the point- nuts.
For a meditation rule, spend (magic) days meditating, roll vs TN 4 with
meditation skill, and each succes will add 1 to your "magic loss" roll
in the above test. You could then spend the freed point (assuming its
not lost) on any power you want (GM may restict ones you might not even
know exist), or save it for doing something else with later (maybe after
meditating to free more points to get a multi-point power, or boosting
an existing power on a moments notice with a complex action, as above).
Note that in our game, magic loss is not SO bad for adepts, since it
leaves a "magic slot" that acts as a cusion for essence loss. That way,
you can get implants of essence amount equal to lost magic, without
actually loosing more magic.

You might also consider going for a mage with some potent exclusive
spells, and the "concentration" magical edge. That way, you could cast
an exclusive spell, sustain it at a only +1 TN, and couldn't use any
other magic. It might not seem as impresive, but the versatilty could
be fun- you could get levitate (flying), x-ray vision, increase strength
+4, flame-thrower (heat ray)...
Unfortuantely, it would just make more sense to get some spell locks to
sustain the spells. If you were a SORCERY adept, though, you couln't
a-percieve and might not want the locks, so this would be pretty keen.
You could even eventualy take a geas of "exclusive magic" or "active
cyber turned off" for an intition ordeal, or if you lost magic / got
cyber, to keep with the theme.

-Mongoose X
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 19:37:15 EDT
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Subject: (OT)* 23
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From James Ojaste:

> MC23 - that's convenient, isn't it? Now what's the 23 for...

Let's see... E=mc^2... that leaves the 3. E is the 5th letter of the alphabet
(mine, anyway). 2 + 3 = 5.

Alternatively, 2^3 = 8. 8-2=6, which is is 2 x 3.

Either way, there we go. Fnord.


- Disney Shaman

* or IS it...?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 20:13:11 -0400
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From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: (OT)* 23
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At 07:37 PM 5/21/98 EDT, you wrote:
>
>> MC23 - that's convenient, isn't it? Now what's the 23 for...
>
>Let's see... E=mc^2... that leaves the 3. E is the 5th letter of the alphabet
>(mine, anyway). 2 + 3 = 5.
>
>Alternatively, 2^3 = 8. 8-2=6, which is is 2 x 3.
>
>Either way, there we go. Fnord.

Now I see why you are a Disney /fnord/ Shaman...

That's just too...too...odd...no, not odd...sane? Insane? ARG! My head
hurts!

Erik J.

Hey, you think Hunter S. Thompson and RAW are twins separated at birth?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 20:13:41 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Fully Active Aura Cloning [OT]
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At 12:26 AM 5/22/98 +0100, you wrote:

>Nothing...

Actually...

>Let's think....
>Hitch-hikers guide.
>Restaraunt at the end of the universe.
>Life the universe and everything.
>So long, and thanks for all the fish.
>and
>Yup, nothing after Mostly Harmless...
>(Not really possible for there to be if you think about it)

Something called "Young Zaphod Plays it Safe" which I had never actually
seen or heard of before but is included in the hardback collection of the
other five books that you mentioned.

For $15, a hardback book with all those stories was impossible to pass up.

Erik J.

Hell, maybe it's not even a real sequel, but it would appear to be at least
set in the same universe as the others.

And after reading a single page of Hitchhiker, it's sort of hard to take
any flames seriously...


"What was that popping sound?"

"A paradigm shifting without a clutch."
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 12:18:11 +1200
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From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: EW-209 (was : Aztec Armored Troopers)
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Thanks for the proposal, Airwasp (0714 22-5-98 NZT):

<<SLICE>>
>Lone Star EW-209
<<SLICE>>
>Handling Speed Accel Body Armor Sig
>4/2 25 7 2 12
3
>
>Autonav Pilot Sensors Cargo Load
>NA 3 5 0 600 kg

B/A 2/12? Armour's okay, but like Erik said, a Body of 2 is a little
soft for proper combat ops. I had something more along the lines of 8/12
in mind - bounce the pistols and rifles, absorb the machine-gun fire and
any light anti-tank fire. (I took the approach that this would be used
against fortifications (dug in infantry or in buildings) with few
anti-tank weapons, or in true 'urban pacification' ops (house-to-house
fighting and operations in high-value security zones).

<<SLICE>>
>Fuel : Diesel (55 liters)
>Point Value : 2,989
>Template :Crawler (Tracked), Large (Military)

Probably the wiser choice, given the likely conditions in the
area-of-operations, but still... the classic ED-209((tm)) image is a
little more dramatic than the 'rolling drone' approach.
<scene begins>
PCs penetrate the Azzie compound, nice and quiet, no alarms;
everything's copacetic so far.
<One of these things spots them on low-light>
Suddenly huge footsteps approach (clump-waa-clump-waa-CLUMP-waa-CLUMP)
and they're transfixed by spotlights: "You are in violation of
restricted Aztechnology territory. Surrender immediately or be fired
upon."
Behind the lights, they can vaguely make out a hulking shape they
initially take for a malformed troll. Then the lights behind the thing
come on, and they see how much trouble they're in.

<<SLICE>>
>Anti-Theft VI + Self-Destruct (blows self up only)
>Armor, Standard (12)
>Drive-By-Wire I
>Gunnery Control System (modified Sentry Gun System)
> Intelligence = 11
> Gunnery = 10
> Initiative = 25 + 2d6
>
><<<<<[Okay, guess what ? The boys from Houston came up with something
new for
>us to fear now. This sentry gun system, if it looses communication or
is
>commanded to do so, will open fire on whatever it can "see" if the
pilot is
>compromised or the thing won't move anymore. Supposedly this thing
can also
>be commanded to do this also, I've heard someone call this "Schizoid
>Mode."]>>>>>

Oh, man. Now *that* is evil. Even if you cack the pilot, the guns'll
still exact payback? Ouch.

>Improved Off-Road Handling +2
>Remote Control Interface
>Rigger Adaption
>Roll Bars
>Small Remote AA Turret (Smartlink II Integration, Recoil Adjusters (9))
>
><<<<<[Guys, this puts the thing in the MILITARY category of weaponry.
When
>you can stick something like a small turret on an almost standard
tracked
>drone all frag is gonna break loose]>>>>>

<<SLICE>>
>Weapon Systems
>Vengeance MMG + 300 rounds Standard Vehicular ammunition
>Top-Mount MGL-6 Grenade Launch Pistol + 6 Concussion Grenades (or
whatever
>else you may choose)

Nice, and scary, but for the sort of feel I want, not scary *enough*.
Okay, my turn for invention (free-form; I have *no* idea how the design
system works):

Aztechnology 'Crusher'
(Bipedal drone base, approx 8-10ft tall; main body has rigger tank)
Body: 6 Armour: 12 Speed: 15 ('Quickness' 5 x 3)
Signature: 4
Sensors: Military I Handling: 4/4 (includes
improved off-road +2)
Engine: Diesel (125L) Economy: 4km/L

Two weapons pods (equiv. Medium turrets) on 'arms' which act as Improved
Deluxe Gyromount (recoil comp 7):
LEFT POD
Ares-Stoner M107 HMG (with Imp Gas-Vent-IV, 1 CF ammo storage (2200
belt-fed rounds alternate APDS/EX-Explosive))
Flame-thrower (takes up 1CF, with 1 CF of fuel (making 550 'rounds';
SA/FA, HP ranges, 9S (initial)/7M ('after-burn'), no recoil)
1CF firmpoint 'slot' (GM's discretion: usually one 'ripple' of rockets,
but can be additional ammo, Firelance Laser, single HEM/AVM, etc)

RIGHT POD
Ares MP-LMG (with Imp Gas-Vent-IV, 1 CF ammo storage (2200 rounds
belt-fed alternate APDS/EX-Explosive))
Enfield AS-7 shotgun (modified to SA/FA; with Imp Gas-Vent-IV, 1 CF ammo
storage (2200 belt-fed rounds shot))
MGL-12 grenade-launcher (modified to SA; with 1CF ammo storage, 550
drum-fed rounds)

Other weapons combinations are limited only by the 2x6CF capacity and
the GM's evilness (no auto-loading missile systems (too bulky), though
you *can* use Ballista's (4CF?)). Volunteer Crushers can even be used
in martial-law riot-control (once they're past the 'secret' stage - with
the project started in 2050, say 2065 for such 'high-profile' missions):
just reload everything with gel/stun ammo and concussion grenades. (The
flame-unit would be removed in exchange for more ammo, or switched for a
glue/foam/net/NarcoJect gun.)

The weapons are fired according to standard rules (i.e. pilot's
Gunnery), and the 'rig uses Erik's suggestion (pilot gets +2 Reaction
when rigging a Crusher, but loses one die in any other vehicle).
Crusher pilots usually have VCR-II's or (in the elite volunteer units of
this elite corps) VCR-III's, with headware Smartlink-2s (even before
these are 'officially' available <g>), pain editors, and (in the case of
the 'permanents') cortex bombs.

The 'permanents' are on BTLs (per Erik's suggestion for 'training'), and
controlled with pharmaceuticals (Benezedrine or better to wake 'em up,
aggression- and reaction-enhancers to make 'em fight hard and fast,
knock-out juice like NarcoJect to put 'em out) and their cortex bombs.
Basically, these ex-cons - Berserkers - are let loose in a
'deconflicted' area - places where there are no friendly units - to
wreak havoc.
The volunteers - the 'true Crushers' - are used in situations requiring
a little more precision and restraint(!?), like site security and
co-operative operations.

Am I being too vicious?

Danyel Woods
9604801@********.ac.nz
'Are you deliberately trying to drive me insane?'
'The universe is already mad. Anything else would be
redundant.'
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 20:28:41 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: EW-209 (was : Aztec Armored Troopers)
In-Reply-To: <81F7A43B468BD111AFEC00A024EA0A2B09D387@*********.polytech. ac.nz>
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At 12:18 PM 5/22/98 +1200, you wrote:
<snipped EVIL ED-209>

>Am I being too vicious?


Good lord, I think perhaps so. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but that
is wicked.

When I get to run my own PC, it's a serious power game that's played with
epic stories and powerful PCs and opponents (don't get to play like that
much anymore though). And I have to say I'd fear that beast of yours even
in my power game. In the lower powered GM I currently GM that hardware
could level half of Seattle....

That's one huge can o'whoop-ass there...

Don't know if it's viable using the R2 rules, but still...

Erik J.

Fight the Future on June 19th!!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 20:33:08 -0400
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From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Pool Use (was; Summer Time)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980520145317.08bf9f8e@****.fbiz.com>
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At 05:53 PM 5/20/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Hey, it's spring which does mean that swimming pools are beginning to be on
>people's minds...

Swimming? Ewww. :p

Anyway, on with the show...

>Reasonable assumption but nobody, including the DLOH, seems to know why we
>have dice pools. It's an important game mechanic, but no one seems to have
>the concrete answer as to why it even exists.

In first edition they existed largely for butt-saving. They were there to
give characters some dice with which to defend against attacks. Magic pool
is different, since it is fairly integral to sorcery, but I believe someone
suggested that the magic system was done later than the other game
mechanics (and so dice pools were prolly already in the mechanics when
magic was being written, and available, and so used to make sorcery work
the way it does).

In second edition, they became a more central game mechanic, since they
could add to offensive tests (basically, combat pool functions like Magic
Pool now, instead of like the purely defensive Dodge and Defense Pools of
first edition).

>Actually, I don't really think it needs fixing. BUT if I were to have to
>come up with a solution to the problem you posit, I wouldn't use your
>answer. It isn't an original idea, but I think it would be better then to
>use a single pool for everything.

>Call it a "Shadow Pool" or something, a group of dice that can be used by
>shadowrunners. Not sure of what it would be, but if you accept that pools
>are a byproduct of focus and concentration, you could make this pool
>INT+WILL/2 or something.

Shadow Pool? Only useable by runners? I'll pass. Hmm... I'd say, you
can use one dice pool before it is your turn again to act (i.e. before you
get another Simple or Complex Action). That way, you don't get to defend
against incoming spells -and- dodge that maniac with the knife with equal
ease. You choose, either you're paying attention to that knife when it
comes at you, or you're wrapped up in taking apart that spell that's trying
to eat you, but not both...

Or, perhaps only allow one dice pool to refresh on each action? You start
out the fight able to defend on both the magical and physical side of
things, but after that you gradually use up your ability to do both, and
have to concentrate on one or the other?


losthalo@********.comwhileyouarelisteningyourwillingattentionismakingyoumore
andmoreintothepersonyouwanttobecome.

"Some things are true whether you believe in them or not."