From:	Unknown sender
Subject:	None
Date:	Unknown time and date

And verily, did Quentin Milton hastily scribble thusly...
|
|ok, after a few days, a long trip, an upgrade, and getting rid of a
|virus, I'm back.......now I just have to replace my mp3s.......

Back just in time for the list clean-up and mass unsubbing....
Bad timing there...

:)

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 08:53:31 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Oooppsie... I did something bad...
In-Reply-To: <199805281405.IAA09054@******.carl.org> from "Spike" at May
28,
98 03:02:36 pm
Content-Type: text

Spike wrote:
/
/ And verily, did David Buehrer hastily scribble thusly...
/ |Spike, Spike, spike, spike... <EG>
/ |
/ |Step up to the line and stand at attention.
/
/ 1> Ooops.

Apology accepted ;)

/ 2> Better to send it to the list in these circumstances to prevent everyone
/ else from asking the same question....
/
/ (It does, after all, contain resub info as well as unsub info...)

Ah, but I assume that the list members are intelligent individuals and
have either a) saved the latest issue of the FAQ or b) have saved the
URL for the FAQ, and know how to query the listserv for help :)

/ <Snip carp>
/ HA! Missed me.
/ (I'm in the old peoples' resort sitting under a carp-proof parasol.)

Now, if only you had thought to put a carp-proof straw in your drink...

<who's amazed at how easy it is to puree a 1000 year old carp, and a
touch of peanut butter, in a blender>

:):):):)

-David
--
"If I told you, then I'd have to pull a Shadowrun against you. Sorry."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 10:39:53 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: If I was Awake... (Was Ingentization)

On Thu, 28 May 1998 10:04:35 -0400 BigDaddy <bigdaddy@*****.COM> writes:
>> If I were in 205x, I'd probably want to be a mage OR a decker...
Hey,
>> If I live enough I can become FastJack! >)
>>
>> Bira
>
>hmmmm, id either have to go with
>a.) human decker or shaman ( i luv the totems and tribal stuff, check
>out my room some time) by the way is there any oriental shamans, such as
>summoning foo monsters or asian critters(if there are any!)
>
>b.) troll sam (life expentancy=2 days. heehehe) never cross an armed
>troll with a panther assualt rifle mounted to a viking ;)
>
>
>--
> Napalm Sticks to Kidz,
> BigDaddy

I /have/ to be a decker ;) if the Otaku won't take me then just the
average decker :) Not being one to commit myself to one thing, I'd Ilso
prolly be a a PhysAd or if the Awakening doesn't find me Magically
Active, a rigger/samurai (for a total of decker/rigger/samurai :) ... no
obvious cyber though ... maybe Synaptic Accelerators + VCR 1 or 2,
Smartlink + Encephalon + Cerebral booster :) If I turned out to be a
(non-physical) Adept or full blown mage, I'd be Hermetic (with lotsa fire
elementals ... fire! fire! henh-heh fire! ;)

P.S.
1) I understand that mages have problems in the matrix (but nobody'll
`splain it to me or tell me where that's from) ... what about PhysAds
without Astral Perception?

2) Does anybody give someone with Mnemonic Enhancers any special
benifits? (aside from the extra dice.) like photographic memory or such?

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, and RuPixel)

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 12:01:24 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Technobabel Teaser Q
In-Reply-To: <000c01bd89f5$6321e340$5a5211ac@********.mincom.oz.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> No, that's not the one I'm thinking of. The one I'm thinking of has the main
> character meet FJ in the Matrix. FJ uses a persona that is dressed in army
> fatigues, and the resolution is particularly high.
>
> Damn, why can't I remember which book it is?

Arg. I know what you're talking about....the main character's chic
had died in a bug hunt. Fastjack was a buddy of his trying to snap
him out of it. It had to be Out of the Shadows.

-=SwiftOne=-
Brett Borger
SwiftOne@***.edu
AAP Techie
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 12:25:45 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Quentin Milton <taslehof@*****.INTERNETLAND.NET>
Subject: Re: If I was Awake... (Was Ingentization)
In-Reply-To: <19980528.104118.4470.3.dghost@****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> >> If I were in 205x, I'd probably want to be a mage OR a decker...

I'd be a physad (or *maybe* a physmage), plain and simple :)

Pantherr
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 12:05:44 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Character Background Help

On Wed, 27 May 1998 22:21:39 -0700 GRANITE <granite@**.NET> writes:
>> The problem is the shaper's bestial nature ... how could she be an
>> undercover op with a bestial nature ... possible solutions:

>A Bestial nature doesn't mean that a SS takes a crap wherever it is
>and the need hits..Just as any dog can be well behaved in most every
>situation sometimes the urge will strike and they just cannot keep
>out of the trash..Or something more like they are more likely to go
>overboard when in hand to hand combat..Afterall a wolf or bear
>doesn't fight for fun they fight for life..

Actually, Yah know what? looking at the totem descripts might be
helpful... the Totems are based on the animal's characteristics so
checking them out might be good for insight ... unfortunately there is no
canon Tiger Totem (AFAIK) would Jaguar be similar?

Also, the way I saw the bestial nature interfering with undercover ops is
while undercover, you usually want to be inconspicuous and it's kinda
hard to that when ya shred the first twerp that steps on your feet ...
(I'm exagerating, but hopefully you get my point ...) ... of course that
depends on where you're going undercover ... I had a corp in mind ... :)

>> 1) brainwashing overrode the bestial nature pay x build points to get
rid
>> of the bestial nature

>Not if I were the GM..A bestial nature would be genetic not something
>you can simply get rid of..THink more like Wolverine from the
>X-men..THe comics not the cartoon..

Yeah, I agree, though Wolverine isn't really a good example ... Marvel
makes his abilities vary too much ;) However I had in mind something
similar to Wolvie after he went feral (although I hadn't thought of it in
those terms :)

>> 3) implanted cyberware controllers (I know alot of people don't allow
>> cyberware in chars/critters with regen, but this is a nifty solution
...
>> someone in Aztechnology has a little box that control her actions ...)

>Not a lot of people..the rules..Now if you want to create a house
>rule..go for it..But leave me out of any discusion about it..

I know ... that statement was refferring to that there are some people
allow cyber but AFAIK, most of the list members don't go for it :) ...
btw, I DID create a house rule and think I balanced it out but nobody
will tell me one way or another ... is this a touchy issue? (I notice you
seem to want to stay away from it :)

>Now if you want something to calm the critter down..try mood altering
>drugs..Make them very adictive..I personally don't like uing drugs in
>my game..but this could be an easy answer for you..This would also
>mesh better with the brainwashing stuff..make the drug long lasting
>and now that the SS finds itself away from the source you have
>withdrawl problems to contend with as well...
>--------------------------------GRANITE
<SNIP> Sig>

hmmm... drugs would have a very different results than cyber ... cyber
you could have the push of the button control ... those that are only
under control because they're under the effects of drugs tend to be
sluggish (AFAIK/IMO) ... Also the Azzies would prolly use something with
lethal withdrawl effects ...

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, and RuPixel)

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 12:22:38 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wraith <wraith@************.COM>
Subject: Re: Technobabel Teaser Q
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

-----Original Message-----


> No, that's not the one I'm thinking of. The one I'm thinking of has the
main
> character meet FJ in the Matrix. FJ uses a persona that is dressed in army
> fatigues, and the resolution is particularly high.
>
> Damn, why can't I remember which book it is?

Arg. I know what you're talking about....the main character's chic
had died in a bug hunt. Fastjack was a buddy of his trying to snap
him out of it. It had to be Out of the Shadows.

Hmm, I know this one too :) I believe it might have been one of the Short
Stories with Brandon Cross. Ahh, here it is "Into the Shadows" edited by
Jordan K. Weisman. The short story is "Plague of Demons" by Tom Dowd.

The other one that's been kicked around is from "Night's Pawn" where Chase
meets goes to the Nexus and meets Bash and Shiva. FJ later appears as
matrix oversight.

Wraith
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 13:07:34 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "David R. Lowe" <david@******.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Thelonious monster (was Re: Hijacking)
In-Reply-To: <199805281038.GAA02948@******.mindspring.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:36 AM -0000 5/28/98, MC23 wrote:

>
> I think I saw Thelonious Monster open up for Fishbone and Red Hot
>Chili Peppers show about 10 years ago. But that was my only exposure.
>

That wasn't at the Warfield in San Franciscio, was it? I think I was at
that show.

D.


David R. Lowe
Photography/Digital Imaging
(510) 654-5111
dlowe@****.com
http://www.lowephoto.com

"The avalanche has begun. It's too late for the pebbles to vote."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 20:10:18 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: If I was Awake... (Was Ingentization)
In-Reply-To: <19980528.104118.4470.3.dghost@****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Alfredo B Alves said on 10:39/28 May 98,...

> P.S.
> 1) I understand that mages have problems in the matrix (but nobody'll
> `splain it to me or tell me where that's from) ... what about PhysAds
> without Astral Perception?

This is from the original Virtual Realities, where as an optional
rule, magicians would add either their Magic Attribute or their
Sorcery Skill to the TN of any test made in the Matrix. The
reasoning behind it was the difference in worldview between
deckers and magicians which caused magicians to experience
difficulties when trying to deck. As this rule didn't re-appear in
VR 2.0, it's generally assumed FASA decided to remove it for
some reason or other.

> 2) Does anybody give someone with Mnemonic Enhancers any special
> benifits? (aside from the extra dice.) like photographic memory or such?

I just use the rules in Shadowtech (in the mnemonic enhancer
section) when characters need to remember something
important, and apply the mods from the ME for that. Photographic
memory, no -- you need the edge with the same name for that in
my game.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
Your actions speak so loud I can't hear a word you're saying.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- + --+--
Version 3.1: | Incubated into
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N | the First Church of
o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ | the Sqooshy Ball
tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y? | 21 May 1998
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ + --+--
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 13:23:52 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: If I was Awake... (Was Ingentization)

On Thu, 28 May 1998 20:10:18 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>Alfredo B Alves said on 10:39/28 May 98,...
>> P.S.
>> 1) I understand that mages have problems in the matrix (but nobody'll
>> `splain it to me or tell me where that's from) ... what about PhysAds
>> without Astral Perception?

>This is from the original Virtual Realities, where as an optional
>rule, magicians would add either their Magic Attribute or their
>Sorcery Skill to the TN of any test made in the Matrix. The
>reasoning behind it was the difference in worldview between
>deckers and magicians which caused magicians to experience
>difficulties when trying to deck. As this rule didn't re-appear in
>VR 2.0, it's generally assumed FASA decided to remove it for
>some reason or other.

<SNIP Querry number 2>
>
>--
>Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html -
<SNIP Sig>

Danke Gurth, That was driving me bonkers when someone would talk about
that an wouldn't explain (except perhaps with "that's the rules") ... I
wish FASA had stated something explicity somewhere, especially
considering there were previous rules that penalized mages in the Matrix
:( ... a good place would have been the BBB section on changes to
previous SBs ... :(

BTW, Gurth is there anything (about SR) you /Don't/ know? ;)

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, and RuPixel)

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:47:42 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Thelonious monster (was Re: Hijacking)
In-Reply-To: <v04003a00b192f1df0b63@[209.108.45.166]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:07 PM 5/28/98 -0500, you wrote:
>At 10:36 AM -0000 5/28/98, MC23 wrote:
>
>>
>> I think I saw Thelonious Monster open up for Fishbone and Red Hot
>>Chili Peppers show about 10 years ago. But that was my only exposure.
>>
>
>That wasn't at the Warfield in San Franciscio, was it? I think I was at
>that show.

Considering where the region where MC23 lives, I would doubt.

But those three bands came up together, out of LA and did a lot of shows
together. For a while, about 10 years ago, before the Peppers got huge,
those three bands plus a few more, were doing shows together in LA about
once a month.

Too bad I was too young and too broke to go see them at the time...

Anyway, back to SR, specifically SR1. Did anyone out there actually use
the "Rocker" archetype? Was it just me or was that the lamest possible PC
to take on a shadowrun? Sure, it might work for CP2020, but Shadowrun?

Erik J.


Resepected Elders Relaxation Resort, President of Operations
and Director of Activities

"Hey, how about a game of first edition using only the Blue Book?"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 12:57:44 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: JD <germany@*****************.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Thelonious monster (was Re: Hijacking)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>Anyway, back to SR, specifically SR1. Did anyone out there actually
use
>the "Rocker" archetype? Was it just me or was that the lamest possible
PC
>to take on a shadowrun? Sure, it might work for CP2020, but Shadowrun?
>
>Erik J.
>


I did once, but it wasn't really a useful character. He was there just
for flavor. I played a spoiled brat who caused lots of trouble. The
background was a rich kid looking for fun on the wild side. He died
quickly -- my choice.

Jon Doud
germany@*****************.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 15:34:24 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Thelonious monster (was Re: Hijacking)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Once upon a time, Erik Jameson wrote;

>>> I think I saw Thelonious Monster open up for Fishbone and Red Hot
>>>Chili Peppers show about 10 years ago. But that was my only exposure.
>>>
>>
>>That wasn't at the Warfield in San Franciscio, was it? I think I was at
>>that show.
>
>Considering where the region where MC23 lives, I would doubt.

Yep, except for one year in Raleigh, I've been a Charlotte boy my
whole life. Vacationed a lot around New Bedford as a small child but I
digress. The club here was the late Park Elevator club back when it was
in the old Park Elevator Building. Too bad the building burned down. This
town doesn't have too many historical sites left. Tear down, build up and
sprawl out (mostly sprawl out).

>Anyway, back to SR, specifically SR1. Did anyone out there actually use
>the "Rocker" archetype? Was it just me or was that the lamest possible PC
>to take on a shadowrun? Sure, it might work for CP2020, but Shadowrun?

Only considered it in conjunction with being a magicians but never
actually seen one played.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 10:29:13 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: More T-Shirt Info (Mr. Imbriaco please)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>Regardless of what is going on, and which shirt offer we use (this one
or
>Quicksilvers), get us a list of names here folks.
>
>As for names to use on the list. As the list is about to be subjected
to a
>major purging and reinvention here soon, could I or Quicksilver or
whomever
>-please- have a copy of the listmembers when such a time comes sent
directly
>to us?
>


OK, I am in for a shirt. Also, I love the idea of coordinating with the
color of the SRIII book if we can find out the color scheme.

Tony Rabiola rabiola@**.netcom.com
Fourth and Sixth World Adept
Still working on the Fifth...
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 15:45:23 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: If I was Awake... (Was Ingentization)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Once upon a time, Alfredo B Alves wrote;

>Danke Gurth, That was driving me bonkers when someone would talk about
>that an wouldn't explain (except perhaps with "that's the rules") ... I
>wish FASA had stated something explicity somewhere, especially
>considering there were previous rules that penalized mages in the Matrix
>:( ... a good place would have been the BBB section on changes to
>previous SBs ... :(

SR3 or the next big book O' magic will address it if it still exists
under 3rd edition. Steve asked the list a long time ago but he's kept his
decision to himself so far.

>BTW, Gurth is there anything (about SR) you /Don't/ know? ;)

At one time it was Grimoire 1st edition. I don't know if he has
yet tracked down a copy for his collection.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:07:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Grahamdrew <grahamdrew@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Real-Life Computing ...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Personally, I don't care. Y2K doesn't bother me one bit - sure, one or
> two of my electronic appliances may stop working, but there's usually
> a feature to set the date...
>

<rant>
I whole heatedly agree. I don't know if there is some huge
earth-shaking concept I'm missing here but WHY IS THIS SUCH A BIG
PROBELM!?

Ok, so my computer thinks it's 1AD, I'm not sur about you guys but I
have one of those rip-off 365 days of duct tape a year calenders, I
don't know if I've ever actually checked the date on my computer...

I can see a few small problems with acounting records and such, but
nothing that would cause a "crash," and NOWHERE near the kind of
problems to define it as a virus (who ever coined that term for Y2K
should take some check thier medication)

CPUs don't deal with time and date anyway, that's a BIOS or an OS
function based on the kind of scomputer your looking at. A little
software patch or flash BIOS upgrade and your cleared, no problem.

Oh yea, and I wouldn't expect you would have trouble with most
apliances, as they don't usually keep track of the date, just time (my
microwave and oven don't, and my VCR is still flashing 12:00 12:00
12:00)

</rant>
--
DISCLAIMER: All grammatical and spelling errors are inserted
deliberately to test the software I am developing. In fact,
that is the only reason I am posting. Yeah, that's the ticket!
All my postings are just test data! Yeah!!
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Maze/1673/
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 17:20:13 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John Penta <johndevil@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Ingentization

On Tue, 26 May 1998 19:02:11 -0400 Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM> writes:
>At 05:08 PM 5/26/98 -0500, Wyrmy wrote:
><snipped Wafflemeister's UGE story>
>
>>Well, I happen to be turning into an ork.Wierd HuH?I'm growing 2 new
>>teeth in the front of my mouth in the shape of fangs, and I have an
>>increased hunger for meat.Perfectly normal Ork :^).
>
>I dunno there Wyrmy, that could just be puberty hitting you upside the
>head...
Nope. That ain't hormones. If it was, then *why* haven't *I* started to
grow fangs? I'm already a carnivore.:) Though...puberty hits alla us
upside the head. Wyrmy just undergoes UGE instead of simple growing up.:)

John

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:22:29 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Real-Life Computing ...
In-Reply-To: <356DC411.4524@***.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 16:07 28/05/98 -0400, you wrote:

><rant>
>I whole heatedly agree. I don't know if there is some huge
>earth-shaking concept I'm missing here but WHY IS THIS SUCH A BIG
>PROBELM!?

ERr... let's say your bank suddenly decides it's 1900 all over again.
Whoops! You don't exist then! Whoops! All your money in the bank is gone!

Whoops! Your house belongs to some guy that's been dead for 50 years.
Whoop! Your employer has no record of ever paying you, you can't claim your
tax returns!

I could go on and on -- your social insurance number, health care, etc,
etc, etc.

A bios upgrade won't do jack for a 20 year old program written in COBOL
that's passed through 3 generations of IT managers, all of whom have a
decreasing amount of skill in COBOL and more in Solitaire and WWW surfing.

It probably won't be as big as the media makes it out to be -- but it is a
problem.

-Adam J
Who remembers "Michoangelo"
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
"So Marilyn Manson is a criticism of gimmickry while being itself a gimmick."
--- Marilyn Manson
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 21:23:55 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Real-Life Computing ...
In-Reply-To: <356DC411.4524@***.net> from "Grahamdrew" at May 28,
98 04:07:45 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Grahamdrew hastily scribble thusly...
|Ok, so my computer thinks it's 1AD,

1900 actually.

One small problem with old BIOSes is the datestamp on files however.
Sometimes, the computer will look for the most recent file to use,
(especially if you're using a C compiler or something like that), and when
the date clocks over, all your new files will suddenly appear to be 100
years old...

:)

Not a problem for me. I deliberately speeded up my system clock once, just
to see how far it'd go before resetting, and I believe the date was
somewhere about 2036(ish). Then it reset to 1972.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:25:26 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John Penta <johndevil@****.COM>
Subject: [ShadowRN] Re: [ADMIN] List Reset: Final.

Could ya resub me? my email access is limited, mostly cuz I share a line
with my brother...He's 16, and....well, he has a right to the phone, and
hence the net, on demand, at basically anytime, enforced by his massive
advantage in strength over me. Please, resub me. so I don't become a red
paste.:(

Thanks,
John

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:49:53 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Grahamdrew <grahamdrew@***.NET>
Subject: Human inhabitation by an ally spirit
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> The Grimmy states that you can use a human host, but not a sentient host

Actually, this is wierd. I was reading the Grimore his morning and this
is what it says. Everybody, pull out your grimores and follow along...

page 67, right collumn, first paragraph

"The magician can provide an animal as well as a human host..."

ok, says you can use a human, next sentence:

"Paranatural animals are too magically powerful to be used as host, as
are sapient beings (such as people)"

umm, you can use humans but you can use people, that aplies to one of my
biology teachers but...

does this mean you can't use magically active people, or just full
magicians, or what?
--
DISCLAIMER: All grammatical and spelling errors are inserted
deliberately to test the software I am developing. In fact,
that is the only reason I am posting. Yeah, that's the ticket!
All my postings are just test data! Yeah!!
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Maze/1673/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:50:41 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Hardsuits
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 5/28/98 12:17:11 PM !!!First Boot!!!, runefo@***.UIO.NO
writes:

> Wolf Combat Armor
>
> Body: 3 (Weighs about 300 kilos)
> Armor: 15 (Slightly heavier than medium military armor).
> Speed: Quickness or Reaction of rigger.
> Acceleration: N.A.
> Signature: 5

I take it this is something from R2 ? Or something cooked up using the RBB ?"

Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:03:24 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "David R. Lowe" <david@******.COM>
Subject: Re: [Back OnT] Rocker Archtype
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980528112702.1577303e@****.fbiz.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 6:47 PM -0000 5/28/98, Erik Jameson wrote:

>Anyway, back to SR, specifically SR1. Did anyone out there actually use
>the "Rocker" archetype? Was it just me or was that the lamest possible PC
>to take on a shadowrun? Sure, it might work for CP2020, but Shadowrun?
>

I even thought it sucked for CP2020. We have a character in our game who
has sort of turned into a rocker. Her budding music career has spawned a
few adventures and has allowed me to get the Yaks involved in her life.
Such fun.

D.

David R. Lowe
Photography/Digital Imaging
(510) 654-5111
dlowe@****.com
http://www.lowephoto.com

"The avalanche has begun. It's too late for the pebbles to vote."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 17:07:58 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Phil Levis <pal@**.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: VR 2.0
In-Reply-To: <356DC411.4524@***.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Something tells me that this was discussed a long time ago, but I'd like
to hear the thoughts of the present denizens of the list.

In my opinion, Virtual Realities 2.0 is an excellent book; the rules and
systems described are robust and detailed, and the wealth of information
provided allows for campaigns set entirely within the Matrix, in which
every character is a decker.

One aspect of the book bothers me, however: the methods by which deckers
obtain their programs. Either they buy them, or they write them. Writing
them takes excessive amounts of time: the example given of a decker with a
computer skill of 8 (damn good) taking a base time of 128 days to write an
Attack-8S program. Buying them is extremely expensive: Hacker House sells
computer programs for three million nuyen. That Attack-8S could be sold
for 128,000 nuyen. That's a pretty amazing living, 1000 nuyen a day.

Both of these systems seem at odds with one of the aspects of deckers
which I have always thought to be important: the idea that deckers write
their own programs on a regular basis, indeed, use their own programs
almost exclusively.

Given good programming techniques, it seems reasonable to me that one
should be able to 'upgrade' existing programs that you own. For example,
one might buy an Attack-6M utility from some software house, hack it for a
while, upgrading it to Attack-8M, use it a bit, then hack it some more to
add DINAB capability. Eventually, the program will need an overhaul as the
additions begin to tax the design of the original program, but it I find
it quite reasonable that competent deckers should be able to write
programs which are not utterly from scratch.

I've been working on a rules system to allow this, but I'm wondering what
people on the list feel should be important considerations. For example,
when should upgrading a program be a losing proposition as opposed to
rewriting from scratch? Which options should be the most difficult to add?
For example, transforming a one-shot program into a full utility should be
very difficult; the one-shot option has a tremendous amount of
optimization and little tricks which allow it to fit in the smaller memory
space. Additionally, if it were not difficult, software houses couldn't
offer one-shot test programs. Upgrading a program to have an Area option
should be much more difficult than upgrading the Area to a higher rating.

Thoughts?

Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:07:57 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "David R. Lowe" <david@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Human inhabitation by an ally spirit
In-Reply-To: <356DCDF1.40D3@***.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

At 8:49 PM -0000 5/28/98, Grahamdrew wrote:
>> The Grimmy states that you can use a human host, but not a sentient host
>
>Actually, this is wierd. I was reading the Grimore his morning and this
>is what it says. Everybody, pull out your grimores and follow along...
>
>page 67, right collumn, first paragraph
>
>"The magician can provide an animal as well as a human host..."
>
>ok, says you can use a human, next sentence:
>
>"Paranatural animals are too magically powerful to be used as host, as
>are sapient beings (such as people)"
>
>umm, you can use humans but you can use people, that aplies to one of my
>biology teachers but...
>
>does this mean you can't use magically active people, or just full
>magicians, or what?
>--


Um, I guess you could use a cadaver. That would be an interesting twist.
(hmmmmm Š I'm getting an idea for our next session).

D.

David R. Lowe
Frank Harrison Perez Design
665 Chestnut Street, Suite 300
San Francisco, California 94133
415.353.5752 (Voice)
415.474.0400 (Main)
415.474.0481 (Fax)

david@******.com
http://www.fhpnet.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 17:14:41 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Thera anyone?

Here's an interesting article...
Enjoy.

http://cnn.com/TECH/science/9805/27/italy.mystery.map/index.html

--

=================================================================
- Tim Kerby - drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
=================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:16:46 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: VR 2.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

----------
> From: Phil Levis <pal@**.BROWN.EDU>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: VR 2.0
> Date: Thursday, May 28, 1998 2:07 PM
>
<snip>
>
> In my opinion, Virtual Realities 2.0 is an excellent book; the rules and
> systems described are robust and detailed, and the wealth of information
> provided allows for campaigns set entirely within the Matrix, in which
> every character is a decker.
>

Hey, this sounds familiar. ;)

> One aspect of the book bothers me, however: the methods by which deckers
> obtain their programs. Either they buy them, or they write them. Writing
> them takes excessive amounts of time: the example given of a decker with
a
> computer skill of 8 (damn good) taking a base time of 128 days to write
an
> Attack-8S program. Buying them is extremely expensive: Hacker House sells
> computer programs for three million nuyen. That Attack-8S could be sold
> for 128,000 nuyen. That's a pretty amazing living, 1000 nuyen a day.
>

One thing to keep in mind that's a programmer working under the bare
minimum's for programming... what I like to think of notepad, a cheap
compiler, and a ton of coffee. If he's got a nice little programming
package... Visual Z++ or the like on a pretty nice platform, he gets a +3
task bonus. So that 128 days becomes 42 days. Divided by the number of
successes. =) 4000+ nuyen a day for drek-hot programming? I don't see a
problem with that. The problem is finding a buyer, though, I think. How
many people can afford an Attack-8S program? The one that really hurts me
is the time/money involved in a Rating 10 MPCP chip with reality filters.
;)

> Both of these systems seem at odds with one of the aspects of deckers
> which I have always thought to be important: the idea that deckers write
> their own programs on a regular basis, indeed, use their own programs
> almost exclusively.
>
> Given good programming techniques, it seems reasonable to me that one
> should be able to 'upgrade' existing programs that you own. For example,
> one might buy an Attack-6M utility from some software house, hack it for
a
> while, upgrading it to Attack-8M, use it a bit, then hack it some more to
> add DINAB capability. Eventually, the program will need an overhaul as
the
> additions begin to tax the design of the original program, but it I find
> it quite reasonable that competent deckers should be able to write
> programs which are not utterly from scratch.
>

I do believe there's upgrading rules in the book. And purchased copies
come with the source code as part of their price. Without the source, it
costs about 25% less. I think you just have to subtract one size from the
other to determine cost/time to program.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 17:19:52 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Real-Life Computing ...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980528142229.008305b0@****.lis.ab.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 02:22 PM 5/28/98 -0600, you wrote:

<stuff snipped>

>
>><rant>
>>I whole heatedly agree. I don't know if there is some huge
>>earth-shaking concept I'm missing here but WHY IS THIS SUCH A BIG
>>PROBELM!?

Okay, so for the average person's PC, Y2K probably isn't a big deal. And
if your VCR still works, who cares if it thinks it's taping Dharma & Greg
in the year 1900? As long as it works, right?

But you have to remember what's really at stake, and that's corporate and
governmental databases and enterprises. As Adam pointed out, stuff like
your bank account, your Social Security Number (or equivalent), all sorts
of vital information is in danger. And as Adam pointed out, much of this
was written in some language or other that there is a decreasing
familiarity with (like COBOL). And what about those huge ERP systems set
up by SAP or Baan or PeopleSoft? Those are nearly custom-written code for
each friggin' installation (which is why a SAP install can take months,
even with plug-ins and modules). Those sorts of program, which run major
corporations like IBM for example, have a serious problem with Y2K. A
simple BIOS upgrade won't do a damn thing for a SAP enterprise installation.

Can you imagine if all the Western governments and the Fortune 1000 all
shut down, because their enterprises and their databases glitch up?
Serious fraggin' problem, and that's a worst-case scenario for Y2K.

Will that happen? Not likely. But I can guarantee you that there will be
some fairly significant companies and governmental agencies that screw the
pooch on Jan 1, 2000, because they didn't implement a solution of some sort
fast enough. A recent study was released stating that many Department of
Defense and similar government agencies are behind on their Y2K fixes are
in major danger of not having an adequate solution in place in time.

So I'm not worried about my own computer (and my old one is a Mac, which
doesn't have the problem anyway), but I am worried about what'll happen
when I go to the ATM for money or when I file my tax return.

Yes, the media is guilty of a bit of hype here, but it doesn't bother me.
I can stand hype if it helps get the fraggin' problem solved.

Erik J.


"Ladies & Gentleman, the newest member of the band, the one and only Spice
Boy, GRUMPY SPICE!!!" <and the crowd goes wild!!!>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 23:29:15 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Rune Fostervoll <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: Hardsuits
In-Reply-To: <8a81796.356dce22@***.com> (message from Mike Bobroff on Thu, 28
May 1998 16:50:41 EDT)

Mike wrote:
>I take it this is something from R2 ? Or something cooked up using the RBB ?"

Nope. There's no Powered Armor chassis in R2.
(I guess you knew that, huh? :)

I made a few assumptions on how I wanted it, what seemed reasonable,
with little basis in R2 except that it could be fit in with that rule system.
I probably forgot a lot of necessary variables - PF's, economy, load, etc.

Make up your own for those, it's more an idea than a finished design.

--

ADVICE, n. The smallest current coin.
-Ambrose Bierce
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 17:03:15 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Waffelmeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Heya Wafflemeister!!!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Heya Wafflemeister!!! ('K' is the Symbol , Wed 16:32)
>
> Guy, sorry to use this forum like this, but could you send me your T-shirt
> logo idea page address again?
>
> Thanks
> =K

Just for public info:
Http://concentric.net/~evamarie/RNSHIRTB.GIF

K: It would be nice to note in the "votelink" (my HTML editor isdown, so
I uploaded just the gif) that these are NOT thumbnails of finished
images- they are crude sketches done with much poorer tools than I
intend for finished art. I'll be working on an actual "page",
especially if I can post parts of the finished work.

The FRONT will be (is currently being) hand drawn, and should be a good
bit nicer than as represented in my crude computer sketch. A copy of
the finished art would be shipped by mail to the printer, as I'm not
going to subject good art to the indignaties of scanning (besides, the
file would be quite large). I will try to have finished art ready
inside two weeks, if the "vote" can hold a bit, and definately post it
for as a "final aproval" before printing if that front design is chosen-
I know one person didn't like the "bullet holes", for example. Xerox
technology would let me add and delete things like that , and is going
to cut my work by ~50%, as the design is rotationally symetric.

The BACK, in either case, would be done in Adobe Illustrator. Once I
had the actual basic back layout done, putting in the names would
literally be a "cut and paste" job, as the computer should do all the
text formating for me (leaving me to play with fonts for several hours
and otherwise waste time for no noticable improvement- does anybody know
the standard fonts used in FASA products?). So this can be handled by
E-mail, in the space of a few hours, I'd guess. The final result can be
E-mailed as an Acrobat file, which should not be hard for whomever
handles printing to find an output for.
To do that basic layout early, it would be nice to know what text
should be included BESIDES the names / adresses. Subscription /
cancelation info (micro FAQ / help)? Info about FASA / Shadowrun?
In any case, I see the back being a one or two day job, tops.

-Mongoose X Wafflemiester
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 17:03:26 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Waffelmeisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Hijacking
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Re: Hijacking (Gurth , Wed 15:15)
>
> Alfredo B Alves said on 7:35/27 May 98,...
>
> > I think he was referring to group A takes plane hostage, group gets
> > everyone's attention and describes threat posed by group B if demands
> > aren't met by a certain amount of time ... to prove they are serious,
> > Group A kills the passengers (and prolly suicides afterwards) ... Group B
> > is the real threat ...
>
> That's about the only thing that makes sense... Killing all your hostages usually
> means signing your own death sentence. Commiting suidice right after means you
> won't have to bother the authorities with it ;)

Yes, that basically the situation I expected to result. No competant
crew would expect to get away after that, even if (especially if) the
threat group b was weilding was HUGE (butits specifics unknown to
them). However, on reflection, the "proof of intent" stunt usually
demonstrates your ability to carry out a larger thret (say, a SMALL gas
attack as threat of a larger one).
So the situation this would most likely occur in would be where a
[terrorist] leader had the ability to influence the minds of followers
to get them to carry out acts like this, and wanted to prove it, as a
threat. Not the best use of that abilty, maybe, but the entire Great
Ghost Dance was a similar "proof of inmtent" involving self sacrifice...

-Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 17:36:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Phil Levis <pal@**.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: VR 2.0
In-Reply-To: <199805282120.OAA05822@*********.cobaltgroup.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 28 May 1998, Jeremy "Bolthy" Zimmerman wrote:

> I do believe there's upgrading rules in the book. And purchased copies
> come with the source code as part of their price. Without the source, it
> costs about 25% less. I think you just have to subtract one size from the
> other to determine cost/time to program.

Yeah... these rules seem a little too simple to me. I'd think that
updgrading a program should take slightly longer. Otherwise, there's no
reason to write things from scratch, because some Restrict-10 Area DINAB
targeting program is actually just the result of a slow improvement of
that Restrict-3 you had five years ago.

Phil
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:40:41 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman"
<jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: VR 2.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

----------
> From: Phil Levis <pal@**.BROWN.EDU>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: VR 2.0
> Date: Thursday, May 28, 1998 2:36 PM
>
> On Thu, 28 May 1998, Jeremy "Bolthy" Zimmerman wrote:
>
> > I do believe there's upgrading rules in the book. And purchased copies
> > come with the source code as part of their price. Without the source,
it
> > costs about 25% less. I think you just have to subtract one size from
the
> > other to determine cost/time to program.
>
> Yeah... these rules seem a little too simple to me. I'd think that
> updgrading a program should take slightly longer. Otherwise, there's no
> reason to write things from scratch, because some Restrict-10 Area DINAB
> targeting program is actually just the result of a slow improvement of
> that Restrict-3 you had five years ago.
>

I'm waiting for the bad part. I'm not a big programmer or anything, but
when I do do stuff, I tend to reuse my old code in some form or another.
Yup, I'm pretty lazy. But it totally makes my job go faster. Ultimately,
it comes down to this for me: I like simple rules. It makes me happy. As
it is, it takes me way longer than I'd really like to figure out how much
it is for such-and-such. My character creation process ground to a halt
while computing costs for all the programs. The last thing I would
ultimately want is to make that process any more complicated than it
already is. =)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 17:42:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: VR 2.0
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980528164517.1515A-100000@*******>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 05:07 PM 5/28/98 -0400, you wrote:

>In my opinion, Virtual Realities 2.0 is an excellent book; the rules and
>systems described are robust and detailed, and the wealth of information
>provided allows for campaigns set entirely within the Matrix, in which
>every character is a decker.

Good book, but it still confuses me for some reason. Maybe it's because
I'm math-phobic, maybe it's because I simply don't allow deckers in my
games. But parts of that and Rigger 2 leave me scratching my head. Gimme
my Grimmy or Awakening or FoF anyday!


>Both of these systems seem at odds with one of the aspects of deckers
>which I have always thought to be important: the idea that deckers write
>their own programs on a regular basis, indeed, use their own programs
>almost exclusively.

Well, what does a decker do when they're not running? Sure, they're
playing Matrix Quake 23 part of that time. And probably some eating and
sleeping in there too. But I would imagine the bulk of their time would be
spent programming. That's what they do after all.

See, I imagine the bulk of a PCs off-time to be devoted to appropriate skills.

A street sam probably lifts weights, practices martial arts and does target
practice at least 20 hours a week.

A hermetic has his head in a magic book (or on MagicNet) and that sort of
thing at least 30-40 hours a week.

A decker would be programming 30-40 hours a week.

A rigger would be tinkering with their drones and vehicles 20-30 hours a
week, probably stuff like target practice also.

That leaves plenty of time for partying and shadowrunning.

So maybe the base time is a bit high, but not grotesquely high in my
opinion. A serious kick-ass attack program (which is what an 8 is to me)
should take a few weeks to a month.

Erik J.


"Ladies & Gentleman, the newest member of the band, the one and only Spice
Boy, GRUMPY SPICE!!!" <and the crowd goes wild!!!>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 18:11:50 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: DrakkathX@***.COM
Subject: Sniping in SR
Mime-Version: 1.0
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the goal of this message is to get feedback on the "Sniper Shot." I do not
wish to address other issues of sniping in this post.

The "Sniper Shot" as i have dubbed it would allow PC's to combine several
skills into one roll for a hit.
ex. Jon rolls firearms + 1/2 demolitions + 1/2 biotech
against Dead
guy A.
but to keep things from going sploot too fast you've got to add lots of
limitations.

Here's my idea:
>>>>>>>a 3 point edge "Sniper's Accuracy"
If the character spends 5 actions Aiming, and
nothing else, no
movement; **no combat pool for defense**;
nothing-
allow them to make the shot using firearms + 1/2
demolitions(nonliving targets) or + 1/2 biotech(living
targets)
to their skill---- with a -2 to TN.

perhaps if this is overpowered, raise cost of the edge, or impose limits on
the maximum bonus from the other skills( +2 die), or increase the number of
actions to aim(6+ spent aiming). **Maybe allow the target a perception test
to see the sniper taking aim, and give them a chance to get out of sight.**
And do the reverse if it is underpowered.

----Hanuman


"This is Solid Snake. Respond please."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 18:19:43 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Quentin Milton <taslehof@*****.INTERNETLAND.NET>
Subject: Re: [Back OnT] Rocker Archtype
In-Reply-To: <v04003a01b19304a29f65@[209.108.45.166]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> >Anyway, back to SR, specifically SR1. Did anyone out there actually use
> >the "Rocker" archetype? Was it just me or was that the lamest possible
PC
> >to take on a shadowrun? Sure, it might work for CP2020, but Shadowrun?

Actually, I have a blind physad rocker I'm waiting to play. IMO,
it'll be a blast (especially since Barbie will be GMing ;) )

Pantherr
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:21:42 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: JD <germany@*****************.COM>
Subject: Re: Real-Life Computing ...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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>So I'm not worried about my own computer (and my old one is a Mac,
which
>doesn't have the problem anyway), but I am worried about what'll happen
>when I go to the ATM for money or when I file my tax return.


I read a scenerio of what would happen at this time, based on problems
not associated with Y2K bug.

Dec. 31, 1999 is a Friday, making it Payday for approximately half of
the nation. It is arguably going to be the biggest party night of this
century and everyone will be going to the bank to cash checks that they
would have normally deposited and to remove extra money from their
accounts. With the media hype about the bug, someone will start a run
on the banks because an ATM just ran out of money. Nothing is wrong
with the ATM (it being made in the "safe" years), just a normal instance
of the ATM not having as much money as the people want it to.

Bringing this back On-Topic, the riots described in New York which lead
to the arming of corporations started because of such a simple
mistake -- the people did not understand what really was going on.

My opinion is that the media is to blame. There is a POTENTIAL problem
at hand. The vast majority of mission-critical enterprises, including
Social Security are safe from theis problem. Yes, some companies will
bite the dust, but that is the American way -- keep up with the SOTA or
you fail in the big leagues.

As for the DoD stating that they may have some problems... doesn't
everyone know that the DoD has problems? Will it change them to be more
efficient or more prepared in the future? Probably not. And this is
not just some half-baked opinion. I have relatives in each branch of
the military. The DoD will just wake up after the crash and declare
that it was a training exercise for terrorist insurgency against the
countries computer framework -- just another day at the office.

Jon Doud
germany@*****************.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 18:37:23 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: 'K' is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Technobabel Teaser Q
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 5/28/98 12:02:59 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
robert.watkins@******.COM writes:

> No, that's not the one I'm thinking of. The one I'm thinking of has the main
> character meet FJ in the Matrix. FJ uses a persona that is dressed in army
> fatigues, and the resolution is particularly high.
>
> Damn, why can't I remember which book it is?
>
For some reason, I don't even remember this. Is it in Technobabel, as I
haven't actually read my copy yet?
=K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 18:48:41 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: 'K' is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Hardsuits
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 5/28/98 7:17:11 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
runefo@***.UIO.NO writes:

> Here's my take on it.
>
> Wolf Combat Armor
>
<snipped stats and descriptions.>

Rune, I must hand it to you. That is a -very- nicely considered piece of
work. Not overwhelmingly unbalanced in any fashion, and still functional as a
measured of "development" of merging cybertech with armortech.

I saved this one, CONGRATSKIES!!!!
=K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 18:53:09 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: 'K' is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Technobabel Teaser Q
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 5/28/98 11:20:45 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
bxb121@***.EDU writes:

> Arg. I know what you're talking about....the main character's chic
> had died in a bug hunt. Fastjack was a buddy of his trying to snap
> him out of it. It had to be Out of the Shadows.
>
OH WAIT!!!! I know the one now. In the remake of "Into the Shadows", which
is the compendium, there is a "newer" story that involves the Mantids in
Seattle and the guy who'se girlfriend had changed into one (been
engulfed/transformed/whatever). FJ was the one who rigged the deck the guy
was using so as to cut out BTL activity for the upper torso (a sort of induced
paraplegia). The guy had wrapped the cord around his legs however, just so he
could make certain of such things.

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 17:06:07 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Loseke <mike@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Sniping in SR
In-Reply-To: <8a7d2e9.356de127@***.com> from "DrakkathX@***.COM" at May
28,
98 06:11:50 pm
Content-Type: text

Thus spake DrakkathX@***.COM:
>
> the goal of this message is to get feedback on the "Sniper Shot." I do
not
> wish to address other issues of sniping in this post.
>
> The "Sniper Shot" as i have dubbed it would allow PC's to combine several
> skills into one roll for a hit.
> ex. Jon rolls firearms + 1/2 demolitions + 1/2 biotech
> against Dead
> guy A.
> but to keep things from going sploot too fast you've got to add lots of
> limitations.
>
> Here's my idea:
> >>>>>>>a 3 point edge "Sniper's
Accuracy"
> If the character spends 5 actions Aiming, and
> nothing else, no
> movement; **no combat pool for defense**;
> nothing-
> allow them to make the shot using firearms + 1/2
> demolitions(nonliving targets) or + 1/2 biotech(living
> targets)
> to their skill---- with a -2 to TN.
>
> perhaps if this is overpowered, raise cost of the edge, or impose limits on
> the maximum bonus from the other skills( +2 die), or increase the number of
> actions to aim(6+ spent aiming). **Maybe allow the target a perception test
> to see the sniper taking aim, and give them a chance to get out of sight.**
> And do the reverse if it is underpowered.

The simple house rule we use is that the sniper gets to make his shot
with all the normal modifiers (he is, after all, just shooting at a
target, moving or not) but the target doesn't get to use any combat
pool to resist the shot, only body dice. This is only if the sniper
was stealthy enough, or the target was otherwise oblivious to him. If
the target can see and react to the sniper then it goeas to normal
combat rules.

If the sniper is worth his salt, he'll drop almost any target with
target numbers of two and probably about 16 successes. Not many people
are going to be able to keep breathing after that.

--
| Even Einstein objected to the idea of
Mike Loseke | wave-function collapse, calling it
mike@*******.com | "spooky action-at-a-distance."
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 19:04:09 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: 'K' is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: VR 2.0
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 5/28/98 4:09:20 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
pal@**.BROWN.EDU writes:

> One aspect of the book bothers me, however: the methods by which deckers
> obtain their programs. Either they buy them, or they write them. Writing
> them takes excessive amounts of time: the example given of a decker with a
> computer skill of 8 (damn good) taking a base time of 128 days to write an
> Attack-8S program. Buying them is extremely expensive: Hacker House sells
> computer programs for three million nuyen. That Attack-8S could be sold
> for 128,000 nuyen. That's a pretty amazing living, 1000 nuyen a day.

Yes, but considering that an Attack Program is considered Illegal just to have
in your memory (any form), that's a pretty hefty thing. And having it in
"Active memory" is even worse IIRC. so the "1,000 Nuyen" a day seems
a fair
trade to me for jail.

=K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 19:07:13 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: 'K' is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Heya Wafflemeister!!!
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 5/28/98 4:32:08 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
evamarie@**********.net writes:

>
> Just for public info:
> Http://concentric.net/~evamarie/RNSHIRTB.GIF

Coolsville, thanks a bunch.

> K: It would be nice to note in the "votelink" (my HTML editor isdown,
> so
> I uploaded just the gif) that these are NOT thumbnails of finished
> images- they are crude sketches done with much poorer tools than I
> intend for finished art. I'll be working on an actual "page",
> especially if I can post parts of the finished work.

YOU just told everyone, so that works. BTW folks, the "Voting" is being done
by Tim Kerby IIRC, at least he volunteered for it. -I- don't know Java or any
other interactive HTML enough to make such neat little applets. Send one of
us via -email- or whatever Tim comes up with to let us know your choices.

=K
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 09:12:23 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Geoff Skellams <geoff.skellams@*********.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: [OT] Thelonious monster (was Re: Hijacking)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

On Shadowrun Discussion, Erik Jameson[SMTP:erikj@****.COM] wrote:
> Anyway, back to SR, specifically SR1. Did anyone out there actually
use
> the "Rocker" archetype? Was it just me or was that the lamest
possible PC
> to take on a shadowrun? Sure, it might work for CP2020, but
Shadowrun?
>
I ran a Spanish Minotaur drummer, Toro, in a campaign out here
a few years ago. The group took turns running games, usually only one or
two sessions long. Unfortunately, no one ever did anything with the band
Toro was in, so he ended up becoming the default security expert for the
group (burned a lot of karma adding new skills and stuff).

cheers
Geoff


--
Geoff Skellams R&D - Tower Software
Email Address: geoff.skellams@*********.com.au
Homepage: http://www.towersoft.com.au/staff/geoff/
ICQ Number: 2815165

"That rates about a 9.5 on my weird-shit-o-meter"
- Will Smith in "Men in Black"
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 19:09:00 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: 'K' is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Sniping in SR
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

I admit it, I -Snipped- EVERYTHING in that post. Where on earth did the idea
of merging Demolitions and Biotech into a "Sniper Shot" ever come from? What
did I miss here?

=K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:26:19 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sean Matheis <sean@****.NET>
Subject: Re: VR 2.0
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980528164517.1515A-100000@*******> from "Phil
Levis" at May 28, 98 05:07:58 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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<nice exposition on VR2 deleted>

> I've been working on a rules system to allow this, but I'm wondering what
> people on the list feel should be important considerations. For example,
> when should upgrading a program be a losing proposition as opposed to
> rewriting from scratch? Which options should be the most difficult to add?
> For example, transforming a one-shot program into a full utility should be
> very difficult; the one-shot option has a tremendous amount of
> optimization and little tricks which allow it to fit in the smaller memory
> space. Additionally, if it were not difficult, software houses couldn't
> offer one-shot test programs. Upgrading a program to have an Area option
> should be much more difficult than upgrading the Area to a higher rating.

One idea is to limit the upgradability of a program based on
either its rating, or its size. Something like you cannot
upgrade a program to more than 1.5* its initial rating. That
Attack-6M can now only go to Attack-9M before it is considered
incapable of being upgraded any further. Adding options would
reduce this multiplier. I don't have VR2 w/ me, and I don't
regularly play a decker, but you should be able to get a general
idea for this. (Perhaps: 1.5* is the max, reduce by one level
for each goodie you add to it)

-Sean (dba. Fieran, Elven PhysAd)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 21:07:50 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paul Gettle <pgettle@********.NET>
Subject: Sick thing to do to a dead Runner.
Mime-Version: 1.0
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

This is a rather nasty idea inspired by the dream I had last night.

What if a corporation, through a nasty mix of Leonizaton, quickened
hybernation spells, cybermantic-like rituals, and good old fasioned
cryonics, perfected the art of practical suspended animation and
revival?

This could be downright wicked in the hands of an Evil GM [tm]. Just
develop rules and background material to run SR, say in 2170.
Stagering changes can happen in a century. Just take all the off the
wall speculation about the future of SR and run with it.

There's always that "oh that wasn't the _real_ Awakening, that was
just the warm up act" plot twist. Maybe the Horrors finally did
invade. Or perhaps a family of Great Form Light Elementals used their
inherent abilities to listen in on any fiber-optic transmission (not
to mention maniupulate those very same transmissions) to pull the rug
of power out from under the megas, replacing control of the world with
a benevelent dictatorship by Free Spirit.

Then once the Evil GM is properly prepared, they just tuck away all
this nice, pre-prepared background material in the back of their
binder, and then wait for the Players to do something stupid that
would get them very nearly geeked, en-mass.

After the last Runner falls unconcious from the hail of Sec Guard
bullets, Evil GM lets them sit for a minute or two while he flips to
the back of his binder. Suddenly it's 2173, and the shadowrunners have
just been brought out of cryosleep for [insert reason/plothook here].

What do you think?

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Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.3

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--
-- Paul Gettle (pgettle@********.net)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:11455339 (RSA 1024, created 97/08/08)
625A FFF0 76DC A077 D21C 556B BB58 00AA
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 18:12:51 -0700
Reply-To: Mark Imbriaco <mark.imbriaco@*****.com>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mark Imbriaco <mark.imbriaco@*****.COM>
Subject: [ADMIN] Y2K Bugs.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

This topic is closed. Take it offline. If you are really interested in
the problems that corporations and government are facing in legacy systems=

there is plenty of reference material on the 'net.

-Mark
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 03:24:30 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Rune Fostervoll <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: Sniping in SR
In-Reply-To: <8a7d2e9.356de127@***.com> (DrakkathX@***.COM)

*snip the '3 point 'sniper's accuracy' edge.'.

Sounds like someone saw Terminator II and took to heart the comment that
the Terminator knew human anatomy so as to be more effective at killing.

It's an interesting thought as such but not, I think, realistic.
While the skills might be relevant, they would be so for identifying proper
targets for called shots or similar, not directly enhance the combat test.


If I wanted to have 'sniper edges' I'd have it as a physad power (or possibly
edge or both) and call it 'focused aiming' or some such, giving the sniper the
ability to get 1 more aiming level (ordinary max of skill/2) per level of the
ability.

Or rapid aiming, getting 2 levels of aiming per simple action.
(Highly unbalancing, I'd think, but hey, it's a thought.).

--

ADVICE, n. The smallest current coin.
-Ambrose Bierce
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 21:43:37 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jett <grota@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Sniping in SR
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> If the sniper is worth his salt, he'll drop almost any target with
> target numbers of two and probably about 16 successes. Not many people
> are going to be able to keep breathing after that.

Exactly. Jett, for example, has a crossbow skill of 7. With a
Smartlinked bow, combat pool, rangefinder, etc, she can roll 14 dice
against a very low TN. And, with dikote bolts (expensive, but worth it),
base damage of 9D means that usually, one success is enough. I've had
Jett make some OUTSTANDINGLY impossible shots with one or two KP and all
those dice, and seen other characters with similar skills with rifles,
etc do the same. IMO, additional sniper mods really aren't necessary.

--Jett
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 21:44:26 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: 'K' is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Sniping in SR
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 5/28/98 8:38:15 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
grota@*********.COM writes:

> Exactly. Jett, for example, has a crossbow skill of 7. With a
> Smartlinked bow, combat pool, rangefinder, etc, she can roll 14 dice
> against a very low TN. And, with dikote bolts (expensive, but worth it),
> base damage of 9D means that usually, one success is enough. I've had
> Jett make some OUTSTANDINGLY impossible shots with one or two KP and all
> those dice, and seen other characters with similar skills with rifles,
> etc do the same. IMO, additional sniper mods really aren't necessary.
>
Smartlink, shmartlink...want something *really* fucking frightening, try
conning and/or scamming Mike out of his "Smart Arrows" he's made his new
Rigger/Archer. Oh yeah, NOW we are talking some hyper-nasty crap.

Sure, they're expensive, and he's only got 4 of 'em (IIRC), but they -really-
begin to set the stage for some nasty ideas.

=K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 21:51:36 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Grahamdrew <grahamdrew@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Mood music
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> i was planning a game the other day when i stumbled across some old 1492
> soundtrack. The music is excellent for mood setting (mostly mystery and
> a sense of intrigue). Any one else use music to enhance RP? What music
> do ya pick?

I've got a good response from some of the lighter NiN (The Perfect
Drug:Versions was OK) as general background music, and Stabbing westward
is pretty good if you put it down low as not to disrupt
--
DISCLAIMER: All grammatical and spelling errors are inserted
deliberately to test the software I am developing. In fact,
that is the only reason I am posting. Yeah, that's the ticket!
All my postings are just test data! Yeah!!
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Maze/1673/
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:10:06 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: VR 2.0
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980528164517.1515A-100000@*******>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 05:07 PM 5/28/98 -0400, you wrote:

<<snip>>

>Both of these systems seem at odds with one of the aspects of deckers
>which I have always thought to be important: the idea that deckers write
>their own programs on a regular basis, indeed, use their own programs
>almost exclusively.

Well, that is your perception of things (and it's not invalid, just not the
only possible take on decking). Ever read Neuromancer, or Count Zero, by
Gibson? Cowboys in Gibson's world frequently make use of progs provided by
their employer or bought from fixers. One character in the novels makes a
living selling both hardware and software for the purposes of cracking
systems.

>Given good programming techniques, it seems reasonable to me that one
>should be able to 'upgrade' existing programs that you own.

Not necessarily, again. Some things, in order to get significantly better
(a rating point's worth, here) have to change their approach or even the
basis of their function. Maybe beyond a certain point, "more" of a given
approach doesn't work, you have to start over if you want to get higher
than a 5 out of your Attack-5 program design. Sometimes what you've
already designed is more a liability than a help in the next stage of
improvement.

Or to put it another way, "Usually you just lose when you sell something
back."

losthalo
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:31:15 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: DrakkathX@***.COM
Subject: Re: Sniping in SR
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>>>>>>The simple house rule we use is that the sniper gets to make his
shot
with all the normal modifiers (he is, after all, just shooting at a
target, moving or not) but the target doesn't get to use any combat
pool to resist the shot, only body dice. This is only if the sniper
was stealthy enough, or the target was otherwise oblivious to him. If
the target can see and react to the sniper then it goeas to normal
combat rules.

If the sniper is worth his salt, he'll drop almost any target with
target numbers of two and probably about 16 successes. Not many people
are going to be able to keep breathing after that.

--
| Even Einstein objected to the idea of
Mike Loseke | wave-function collapse, calling it
mike@*******.com | "spooky action-at-a-distance."<<<<<<




yeah that would save time.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:41:53 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: DrakkathX@***.COM
Subject: Re: Mood music
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 98-05-28 21:53:19 EDT, you write:

<< > i was planning a game the other day when i stumbled across some old 1492
> soundtrack. The music is excellent for mood setting (mostly mystery and
> a sense of intrigue). Any one else use music to enhance RP? What music
> do ya pick?
>>

mmm.... Santana, most anything off a Hypnotic label, anything that has
ambient
audio samples that sound like they could be happening in game
(ie.
gunshots, banging of doors, Lost Highway Sdtrk- Mr. Eddy's theme
#1,
whenever the music sounds like it's performing an action.)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:22:17 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Machine-gun Kelly <MgkellyMP5@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Sick thing to do to a dead Runner.
Mime-Version: 1.0
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<SNIP>

THAT'S EVIL!!!!!

I love it ;] Wish I would've thought of it when I was GM'ing ;]

Mgkelly
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:51:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: BigDaddy <bigdaddy@*****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Re: If I was Awake... (Was Ingentization)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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MC23 wrote:

> SR3 or the next big book O' magic will address it if it still exists
> under 3rd edition. Steve asked the list a long time ago but he's kept his
> decision to himself so far.
just out of curiosity folks. When is the SR3 sourcebook coming out. my
BBB is way outta date and since the 2nd will be obsolete soon i decided
why bother buying it.
>
> >BTW, Gurth is there anything (about SR) you /Don't/ know? ;)
>
> At one time it was Grimoire 1st edition. I don't know if he has
> yet tracked down a copy for his collection.
>
excellent book 1st ed Grimoire! a must for all colectors!
--
Napalm Sticks to Kidz,
BigDaddy
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:34:20 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Sniping in SR
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 5/29/98 1:53:08 AM !!!First Boot!!!, Ereskanti@***.COM
writes:

> Smartlink, shmartlink...want something *really* fucking frightening, try
> conning and/or scamming Mike out of his "Smart Arrows" he's made his new
> Rigger/Archer. Oh yeah, NOW we are talking some hyper-nasty crap.
>
> Sure, they're expensive, and he's only got 4 of 'em (IIRC), but they
-really-
>
> begin to set the stage for some nasty ideas.

I took the Small UAV Fixed Wing, which is a Body 1 drone, and made it into a
Body 0 drone instead in the shape of an arrow, and since there is no power
plant, other than my pc in question, the limit on range is as per a standard
arrow.

The guy has a strength of 10 (Muscle Aug IV) ... and so has a range of 600
meters. The speed of the arrow is 10 times the damage of the arrow (14) which
means a Speed of 140, achieved immediately after launch, and still doing arrow
damage on impact (14M).

The Accel for the drone is a 10, and my pc can make the thing come to a halt
...

As for the skill with piloting the arrows, Pilot Fixed Wing (Remote Operations
/ Arrows) ...

And the drones still have Rigger Adaption, Remote Control Interface, and
nothing else for the moment ...

As for cost ... 14,200 nuyen each ... and he has 6 of the things ... almost
gave one or two up to make some contacts ...

Though, this is still the beginning for the pc ... I have plans to add in a
Tactical Computer and Sentry Gun System onto the Bow, this way all I have to
do is pull back the arrow, and let the sentry gun system do the firing ...
which can be accomplished via a remote bow trigger my pc has in his hand.
This is only the beginning ...

Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 15:03:16 +1200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: If I was Awake... (Was Ingentization)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Quoth BigDaddy (1457 29-5-98 NZT):

<<SLICE>>
>just out of curiosity folks. When is the SR3 sourcebook coming out. my
>BBB is way outta date and since the 2nd will be obsolete soon i decided
>why bother buying it.

*Supposedly* it's coming out at GenCon (August??). Whether or not it
*will* come out then is another question.

>> >BTW, Gurth is there anything (about SR) you /Don't/ know? ;)

Far as I know, if it's SR and Gurth don't know it, it ain't worth
knowin'. :-)

<<SLICE praise of 1st-edition Grimmy>>

Danyel Woods
9604801@********.ac.nz
'Are you deliberately trying to drive me insane?'
'The universe is already mad. Anything else would be
redundant.'
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 23:25:49 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paul Gettle <pgettle@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Sick thing to do to a dead Runner.
In-Reply-To: <671597ef.356e1bda@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 10:22 PM 5/28/98 -0400, Mgkelly wrote:
><SNIP>
>
>THAT'S EVIL!!!!!
>
>I love it ;] Wish I would've thought of it when I was GM'ing ;]

Thank you. I try. :)

Maybe the best thing about putting your runners on cryosleep for a
century is that it gives you the chance to incorporate some items that
are classic elements of many cyberpunk stories, that aren't normally
available in SR. Cheap, consumer-level magnetic anti-grav in the form
of flying cars. Homing Bullets. Freestanding holograms.
Replicants/Clones. Space stations and off-world colonies. Particle
and/or energy pulse weapons. The Island of California. True AI and
cyborgs. Delta grade cyber for the streetpunks and guttertrash who
can't afford "the less invasive consumer-grade 'ware" and have to get
the cheap, third-hand antiques through their street docs.

Plus, I can just imagine the look on the players' faces about 5
seconds into this, when they realize that EVERYTHING they know NO
LONGER APPLIES.
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Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.3

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--
-- Paul Gettle (pgettle@********.net)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:11455339 (RSA 1024, created 97/08/08)
625A FFF0 76DC A077 D21C 556B BB58 00AA
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:26:49 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Ashe <wmashe@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [Back OnT] Rocker Archtype
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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>>Anyway, back to SR, specifically SR1. Did anyone out there actually use
>>the "Rocker" archetype? Was it just me or was that the lamest possible
PC
>>to take on a shadowrun? Sure, it might work for CP2020, but Shadowrun?
>>
>
>I even thought it sucked for CP2020. We have a character in our game who
>has sort of turned into a rocker. Her budding music career has spawned a
>few adventures and has allowed me to get the Yaks involved in her life.
>Such fun.


Actually one of the girls in our game (yes there are a few who role play ...
she's married already guys) plays a rocker. Albeit she beefed up her cyber
a bit. She's actually quite a well rounded character. Also check out my
fiction site; I'm writing a story (up to Ch 6 ... someday I'll finish with
Ch 7) The main character here is a rocker too (albeit a phys ad too)

http://freeweb.pdq.net/wmashe/shadowrun.html in the "fiction" section

Regards
Bright Light
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:32:06 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Ashe <wmashe@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Sick thing to do to a dead Runner.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

applause as another has begun the climb to Evil GM'hood

Another good one is to send them back into time, but tell them if they kill
anyone, they change history and kill themselves (works really good against
certain munchies I used to know).

Regards

Bright Light
http://freeweb.pdq.net/wmashe/shadowrun.html
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:42:59 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wyrmy <elfman@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Ingentization
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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BigDaddy Saideth:
> hmmmm id either have to go with
> a.) human decker or shaman
<snip troll sammy>
I would have to be the decker(albeit a blackmarket-of-the-rack one), or
a Mage.I love elementals("Hey anyone want to see what happens when an
earth and fire elemnental fight?what about water and Air?":^)), and I am
naturaly more scientifficly oriented that a child my age should be.And I
can actualy say all those long words .:^)
--
-W
============================
If you are a dreamer come in,
If you are a dreeamer, a wisher,
A liar, a magic jelly bean buyer,
Come In!
-What should be the motto of all internet users.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:38:51 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Bandersnacth as Astral Vampires?

In the description of the Bandersnatch, it says that there is the
possibility that they are Sasquatch's infected with a variation of HMHVV
but they don't have Essence Drain ... So how about this: Since the
Sasquatch was dual-natured, when it aquires the HMHVV, the virus feeds
off astral energies instead of draining essence ... a possible effect
that this could have is that places where Bandersnatches spend
considerable amounts of time would become Voids (an lair may be level 2
or 3)

Just a theory ... what do ya think?

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, and RuPixel)

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:30:49 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Horned God (idol from Germany SB [US version]) boo boo

on p 150 it says that the followers of the Horned god Idol must roll
against a T# of 10 - New love's Charisma to resist desiring said new
love... now unless, they're supposed to go for the "ugly" ones, I think
that's supposed to be (1 or 2) + New love's charisma ...

Is there an errata for the Germany SB anywhere?

D.Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, and RuPixel)

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:41:22 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Ashe <wmashe@***.NET>
Subject: While I was gone ... Bull -> wendigo
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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I had to drop off the list before the end of that saga. How'd that all turn
out

Regards
Bright Light
http://freeweb.pdq.net/wmashe/shadowrun.html
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 23:49:09 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: 'K' is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: If I was Awake... (Was Ingentization)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 5/28/98 10:27:08 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
bigdaddy@*****.COM writes:

> > >BTW, Gurth is there anything (about SR) you /Don't/ know? ;)
> >
> > At one time it was Grimoire 1st edition. I don't know if he has
> > yet tracked down a copy for his collection.
> >
>
Gurth wants a First Ed Grimoire? Damn man, why didn't anyone tell me. IF you
are going to GenCon and I make it there as well, I'll either sell it to ya
cheap or just give my old copy...dunno which...

=K
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 20:34:20 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Nesius <nesius@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Real-Life Computing ...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980528142229.008305b0@****.lis.ab.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>At 16:07 28/05/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>><rant>
>>I whole heatedly agree. I don't know if there is some huge
>>earth-shaking concept I'm missing here but WHY IS THIS SUCH A BIG
>>PROBELM!?
>

When production systems work - systems such as transaction databases -
the trend is to let the box/software doing the work to sit in the corner
of a computing room and quietly suck bits off the network. These old
software packages have been proven to operate CORRECTLY. When faced
with the risk of rolling out a new system that may have bugs when you
all ready have a system that you KNOW doesn't screw things up, people
whose data represents other people's money tend to want to let the old
stuff sit there.

So what's the problem? The problem is this stuff is old. Even if a
corporate entity resopnsible for the code is around, the programmers
who WROTE it are long gone in most cases, and that knowledge base is
usually not documented. So, y2k (that term, btw, has been trademarked
by someone :/ ) - the problem is not hard to understand. But in some
cases, it's damn hard to fix. And the systems that need to be fixed
have exacting standards - transaction databases are one example.
In otherwords, it's not the nodes (like personal computers ) that are
at risk - it's the *infrastructure.*

-Rob