From:	Kama kama@*******.net
Subject:	A perfectly acceptable reason to test the new list...
Date:	Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:47:10 -0500 (EST)

On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, David Fallon wrote:

> >Anderson, a dog shaman in our campaign, opted for cybereyes when his
> >natural eyes were destroyed during a hosed run. He opted for cyber becuase
> >of the improvemnts he could get built into the cyber eyes even though the
> >money was available for him to wait and get clonal replacements. He
> >decided that as long as he was going to have surgery he might as well do
> >things properly and got a smart gun link put in as well. I believe he had
> >one more piece of cyber put in at that time as well, though I cannot
> >remember what. All in all, the minimal amount of cyber that Adnerson put
> >in was the few things he thought would give him a serious boost to his
> >survival potential while spending very little essence (less than a point).
> >Even if circumstances had not prompted him into getting the eyes when he
> >did, I believe Anderson had considered these limited cyber options before
> >the bad run.
>
>
> Erm.... That's pretty munchkin. Anytime the logic goes "It's only X
> essence", the character is looking at the rules, and not at their character
> background.

Yes, a haracter should not have an exact knowledge of hte essence cost.
However, they do have some clue as to how much of a change a piece of
cyber will make. In this case, part of the reaosn the run went bad was
that anderson couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with a gun and his
magic wasn't working. I don;t see any problem with the character lying in
bed recovering from wounds which killed most of his group thinking things
through and deciding that he will go ahead and get the smart link and the
cyberyes in order to avoid the particular shortcomings that got him hosed
on teh lst run. Acmittedly, he didn't think it through in terms of essance
numbers, but probably did relize that "the smart gun link and the
cybereyes will probably do no more harm to my body intergrity and the
relationship I share with dog than the cybereyes alone".

>
> >Another character in our campaign named saphire has done the initiate and
> >cyber routine. However, it has fit well with her personality. She
> >sonsiders herself to be a death machine. She has little affection for
> >people and tends NOT to make friends despite her high charisma becuase of
> >her kill at any cost personality. She does tend to initate with a list of
> >cyber in mind so that she clenas herself out of both Karma nad money at
> >the same time. She is played well, with her social problems being used to
> >off-set teh advantages she has gotten through this trade off. However, if
> >she were being played in a campaign where the social disadvantages were
> >not so freuently emphasized, she owuld be munchy.
>
>
> That sort of fits, but I'd hope she was self-initiating... Even still,
> that's pushing it. :) Having a character's personality be "I am a munchkin"
> doesn't make it good roleplaying.
>

Depends on what the atmosphere of the campaign is. Personally, most of our
characters tend to be "self-sacrificing fools in the cause of good". We
have had retired Pc spend their time and money on rehabilitating a part of
the barrnes and setting up a series of soup kitchens in Seattle. Most of
our characters will turn down any job that involves hurting "innocents"
and have taken numerous jobs for free becuase a shild was being hurt. The
party even risked thier lives to get two school buses of children free
from the Chicago contianment zone just when things exploded and then set
up a school and orphange as well as metorship programs to help them adjust
to life after Chicago. With a group of civic minded ultruistic
goody-two-shoes the occasional appearance of Saphire (whose player lives
half way across the country) is a wondreful element. Her williingness to
sacrifice her body and magic to cyber wierds out all the magically actives
in the group. Her love of the kill and lack of concern for any collatoral
damage does a great job of shaking up the party's balance and her concern
for power alone causes some great tension when she works with a group
whose primary interest lies in bettering mankind.


> >To summerize, I have no problem with a mage or shaman thinking long and
> >hard before deicding that a SMALL amount of cyber is worth the loss. I
> >agree, that mages and shamans who constantly up their level of intiation
> >in order to fit in more cyber can be dangerously close to munchy. However
> >I have seen it done well.
>
>
> Even a small bit of cyberware is really pushing it. I recommend reading a
> book called 2XS by Nigel D. Findley, if you haven't already. I think it's
> out of print, but it's a _really_ good book to make some of the issues a
> character _should_ have with cyberware clearer. The main character is a
> private detective who does his best to survive on the street without
> cyberware, because he likes his body just the way it is, thank you. I don't
> think every character should be like this, but some of this should be in the
> back of every character's minds, especially mages.
>
Agreed, but NOT EVRY CHARACTER SHOULD BE LIKE THIS, Lena, our non-magical
muscle for a long period, now a retired decker, has been very careful to
keep her essance at 5 and higher. She needed the edge of a little cyber
(she couldn't have survived without the smart link 2 and the jack was
necessary to become a decker) but she was unwilling to stop being
"herself" if ti was unnecesary. On the other hand Zurko, a weapons expert
has cybered herself to the max in order to stop being "herself" - a person
she never liked and still hasn't learned to value. I agree that there is a
bit of madness in being willing to sacrifice pieces of yourself to be a
better machine. However, it would be hard to argue that there is no
madness in any shadowrun character and sometimes this is the form the
madness takes.

KAma