From:	Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject:	Elf/Dwarf Transforms, Part 2 (was RE: Breeder definition)
Date:	Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:13:12 -0600

>> >> ... Were there transformation into elves and dwarves to start
>> >> with?
>> >
>> >Nope..they are born that way..or existed prior to the awakening..
>>
>> Okay. Now give me chapter and verse, since your answer didn't help
>> me or the discussion I'm having a bit, and it's not very convincing
>> as stated.
>
>Nope... there were a few spike babies, but elves and dwarves are born, not
>goblinised.

They are now, but there's nothing explicitly stating there wasn't a wave of
(for lack of a better word) goblinizations at the beginning of the mana
cycle.

>Your figures are out because elves and dwarves started being born
>just after the turn of the century. 10 years later, UGE started.

Er, no. According to the history recorded in SR2 (borne out by Captain
Chaos in SR3), UGE births began in 2011, shortly after the VITAS plague and
shortly before Ryumyo appeared on December 24. Births before this are spike
babies, as the term is used by most of the characters in the source
material, and there apparently weren't enough of them to cause a panic.
*That* happened in the Year of Chaos, 2011.

It doesn't mention other transformations one way or another; I want
concrete, canon proof that my position is false. And I can't find any.

>The oldest non-spike elves would be hitting their mid/late-50s in SR time.

Okay....now explain the *old* elves. The ones who *look* like they're old.
Zessler in PRIME RUNNERS, for instance. An elf at 50, who was born an elf,
would appear in her early 30s at worst.

>You can find this in the "How it came to pass" section of SR2... should
>still be in SR3.

Looked there. Didn't provide answers, thus I asked yet another question and
take yet another unpopular stand in here.

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.