From:	GRANITE granite@**.net
Subject:	Elf/Dwarf Transforms, Part 1 (was RE: Breeder definition)
Date:	Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:21:55 -0700

> >> Okay. Now give me chapter and verse, since your answer didn't
> >Do your own research.
> What gives you the notion that I didn't?

Hey.. I pointed you in the correct direction..I simply was not going
to go look it all up for you..afterall..If it is done for you..how
will you ever learn ;)

> >look in SR2 It came to pass where it is talking
> >about how the races came to be.
> As I said, it's inconclusive. There were a lot of UGE babies born starting
> mid-to-late 2011, after the first wave of VITAS hit, but it doesn't say
> *anywhere* that I can find that there weren't also transformations. And the
> numbers just don't add up without them.

I cannot find the referance right now..but Somewhere it has been said
that as a general rule..If it is not stated as fact then it did not
happen...as an example in the statements that follow:

-Elves are born to either humans or other Elves.
-Trolls transform from humans or are born to Trolls.

Using these statements the folowing would be true:

Elves are born
Trolls are either born or transform

That was simply an example..make of it what you will..I cannot recall
where ther referance to this manner of interpreting things is..and I
do not feel inclined to spend a couple of hours looking for it..but I
can say that as a GM I have found that using this ruling makes life
easier..and helps prevent weird interpretations of obscure rules..

> >As for when I referred to the races existing prior
> >to the Awakening..I meant Centuries ever Thousands of years prior.
> Now show me some game canon to support *that*. There isn't any.

Actually you are incorrect..Fact #1 Earthdawn is the past of
Shadowrun..Fact #2 There are numerous examples of characters
surviving from one game universe until the next..these universes are
approx 13,000 years apart..thus characters in both would have to be
thousands of years old..To name a two Lofwyr, Harlequin, And a
number of other elves of the subgroup IE..

> >Problem is you will not be able to find -any- documentation to float
> >that argument..I've tried..Or do you want me to list everywhere I
> >didn't find it.
> What the hell do you think I'm trying to do here, for crying out loud?
> Jesus, how stupid do you really think I am?

Calm down fella.. this is a friendly conversation..I never commented
on your intellegence level..and I will not..as for what you are
trying to accomplish..I have absolutely no idea..I have been in this
particular discussion a number of times..I as much as said so
originally and that was not good enough..I -have- done the
research..There simply is absolutely -no- support for the
transformation of any meta/human into an elf..However, there is
support for elves are born they don't transform..

> I never said I had even that much, for the record, which is why I'm on this
> particular trail right now. My gut and common sense tell me that there had
> to be a wave of such transformations.

It seems as though this would have had to happen..And it also seems
that it would make sense for it to have happened..but there is no
mention of it having happened..

> >IN the beginning I agreed..but without being able to prove it..ya just
> >have to make it up for yourself..And chalk it up to one of those
> >little details that got overlooked when they were creating the SR
> >universe..
>
> Well, until someone can offer solid proof that I'm wrong, I'm continuing to
> run my world as if there were a wave of elf/dwarf transformations since
> that's the only way FASA's numbers can make any damn sense.

LOL..Now we get down to the crux of it..Dude..the Gaming Police are
not going to bust down your door and put a gun to your head..Run
things your way in your game..shoot..it says that practically on the
first page of almost all of the FASA gaming material..

[Sounds of a door being broken into splinters..then of boots of
concrete..the distinctive clack, clack of charging handles on
automatic weapons]
Ermm...Perhaps you should follow the rules as written..........
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"