From:	Damian Robinson max.robinson@**.net.au
Subject:	APDS and Smartlinks
Date:	Sat, 27 Feb 1999 11:40:43 +1100

Paul J. Adam wrote:
>
<snip>

> I also added Aimpoint scopes to my game, and figure weapons like the
> HK227 and FN-HAR that come with 'laser sights' actually have Aimpoints.

Now that makes sense!
Laser sight also means red dot sight!

> >I did not read the original APDS text, but would like to say something
> >on this ammo. Armor Piercing Discarding Sabot ammunition is currently
> >used by larger caliber weapons like Tank guns or Autocannons. The
> >smallest Subcalliber type armor piercer I have heard of is the .50
> >SLAP ammo used by the US Marines.
>
> They also evaluated a 7.62mm version.

The Swedish army has a 7.62N round with a AP sub cal in service right
now with their snipers, for use against targets with light armor.
IIRC, its got a 4.8? mm tungsten Sub Cal. Accuracy

> >I realy doubt if this type of ammo would be any usefull in
> >smallarms as the subcaliber round would be very small. In a 5,56 AR
> >round it would maybe be the size of a needle or thin nail.
>
> Like the ammunition used in the AAI and Steyr contenders for the
> Advanced Combat Rifle competition, for instance, a saboted 1.5mm
> flechette in a 5.56mm casing (AAI) or a plastic telescoped case (Steyr)?
>
> >It is
> >however, unlike what FASA claims in SR3, a antivehicle ammo.
>
> I give it armour-piercing effect against vehicles for just that reason.

It would really depend on what level of armour you're shooting it at,
and what the flechette is made of. Most flechettes are designed so
that the tip hooks over so as to increase terminal effects in soft
tissue. This means the tip is softer than the body of the flechette,
and its effectiveness Vs hard armour is likely to suffer. But soft
body armor? What armor? That's just a suit of softly woven holes for
me to slip through!

Also, against a vehicle with real armor, not many pistol launched
rounds are likely to penetrate armor designed to stop assault rifles
and MMG's. The .224 BOZ is an exemption to this rule however! (for
those who don't know, this round penetrates the armor plate from a
bradley AIFV at 50m (IIRC))

> >If it was
> >going to be limited in some way it should have -1 damage level against
> >personnel.
>
> I prefer just to limit it by its scarcity and extreme distinctiveness.

Perhaps a half way house?
Two different types of APDS ammo, one for APers purposes, and another
for AVeh. The APers version is ineffective Vs Hardened armor in the
normal way, and the other is great against hardened armor, but tends
to go straight through people (-1 damage level Vs Non hardened
targets, the reverse of normal APDS).
Call it say, Security Grade for APers, and Mil Grade for AVeh.
Keep roughly the same sort of avail and costs for each (or not, up to
you and your GM), and sort it out from there! But all APDS types are
going to be verrrryyy distinctive!

"look sir, these rounds are the same type and batch as that last hit,
up in renton!"

Comments?
(i.e. has this been done already too?)