Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

From: Chris Maxfield cmaxfiel@****.org.au
Subject: SR3... SpellCasting (and Game Balance)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 18:19:14 +1100
At 01:23 6/03/99 +1000, Bob Tockley wrote:
> Skill already is a powerful factor. Too much of a powerful factor. In
>all the novels and in the majority of the sourcebooks, magical characters
>have some kind of latent magical talent. Some people are just more
>powerful than others, simple as that. This doesn't translate well into
>game mechanics -except- as a variation in the Magic Attribute (albeit a
>minor one that doesn't really have any game effects).

To use magic, the innate magical talent must be there, of course. The strength
of this innate talent is reflected across the game mechanics (in SR2 and even
more in SR3) in many places. However, Shadowrun is a skill-based game and,
therefore, skills should be the defining factor for character capability. A
highly skilled Martial Artist is more powerful than a street punk, even if the
street punk is stronger.

> With the way things are shaping up in SR3 (pre-MitS-release), it looks as
>if magical characters will be -the- characters to play if you want to
>min/max. Given the new initiative system, the reduced effect of the Magic
>Attribute, ease of acquiring cheaper, more essence-friendly cyberware, the
>ability to get low-Force, high-effect initiative, attribute, and
>armour-enhancing spells, and so on, the SR3 magician will be able to
>out-think, out-fight, out-run, out-gun and out-do a street samurai at

More essence-friendly cyberware bonuses the chrome boys & girls as well. Pack
more cyberware, e.g. a tactical computer, in a street sam and watch him go.
The SR3 Increased Reflexes is no different to SR2. For Increased Attribute
spells, they're more difficult since they're force limited. The sustaining foci
(all with a much higher rating than a 1 point spell lock) required to maintain
these spells stand out in astral space like a sore thumb. Any astral magician
or spirit can blow them away without a sweat. Further, these spells can and
should benefit the other team members just as well.

The new initiative system restrains anyone, with ultra-fast reflexes, into
using tactics rather than brute speed. This applies to magicians and
chrome-boys both. Better yet, the SR3 initiative system means that it's
possible to play a non-boosted character and still be effective in a fight. For
that reason, a couple of players in my game have decided that their new
magicians will never acquire Increased Reflexes.

I don't see how a magician can out-gun a street sam. The sam can spend all of
his karma on acquiring and increasing the wide range of firearms skills and
master many different weapons. The magician has other priorities before he
starts spending karma on firearms skills. The increased karma cost of Attribute
increase is very significant here, as well.

>anything and everything... and all he needs is a high Sorcery Skill to do
>it. Why bother with Spell Pool? It's only going to refresh once a Combat
>Turn. Leave your Intelligence, Willpower, and Magic Attribute alone and
>beef up that Sorcery Skill - you can count on those dice all the time.
>It's the Firearms scenario all over again. One skill that covers way too
>much and has too much potential for abuse.

No. I don't think it's the same as the Firearms skill. With the SR2 Firearms
skill, you could just pick up any old weapon you found lying around, even if
you've never seen its type before, and use it. With sorcery, you have to
deliberately spend time and karma to acquire each and every weapon (spell) .
With the power level problem you are describing here, I don't see much
difference to the SR2 essence 2 cyber-mage with a Force 8 Manabolt, exclusive
and with expendable fetishes. This magician was virtually invincible against
standard opposition, had no need to use magic pool dice on the spell success
test and only 1 or 2 on the drain test to avoid taking any drain. Even if the
cyber-mage took the physical drain, it would most likely be a light wound,
easily fixed with First Aid, or easily healed by magic (the other team
magician, ally spirit, or anchored spell etc.). All the rest of the magic pool
could be placed in spell defense - and the magic pool refreshed every action. I
feel the power problem you seem concerned about already existed in SR2. :-)

> Not exactly. You see, under SR3 your mage doesn't have to allocate Spell
>Pool for Spell Defence, he has to allocate points of Sorcery Skill plus any
>Spell Pool he wants. Now, the way it's written there are two basic ways to
>interpret how this works: 1) You allocate dice from your Sorcery Skill,
>thus reducing your Sorcery Skill for other magical actions (makes sense and
>limits the magician quite a bit), or 2) You allocate up to your Sorcery
>Skill to a number of targets (yourself included) and protect them without
>suffering any impairment to your magical abilities. If you're using the
>former interpretation, great. If your SR3 mage wants to toast someone with
>a low-Force spell, he leaves himself wide open to magical attack. If
>you're using the later interpretation, well.... let's just say the system
>becomes a fair bit unbalanced in the magician's favour.

To me, the text in page 174 (Astral Combat) and page 183 (Spell Defense) are
pretty clear in that Sorcery dice allocated to another purpose are gone for use
in Spell Casting. The wording of the rules may be a bit unclear but the
author's intent is, I think, clear. These rules are consistent with the many
additional restrictions placed on magicians in SR3.

Over all, I think the magic system is balanced in SR3, with more consistency
than in SR2. All, of course, IMHO.






Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.