| From: | Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com |
|---|---|
| Subject: | SR2 v. SR3 [was: Re: Deciper press release link] |
| Date: | Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:41:25 EDT |
cyberraven@********.net writes:
> > a game of your own. BUT... Wait! YOu need to pick up these two books
> > since the systems in the Shadowrun 2 book are obsolete.
>
> Obsolete by who's definition. I like Rigger 1/SR 2 vehilce rules, and the
> basic rules work for the Matrix for our purpose.
And for many other players, I'm sure they did work as well. But, as you and
many of those others are "older, veteran, players", you of course had all
those books already and didn't need to have them compiled, did you?
> > nuts. Magic is one big mess, only the super-cyber-sammies like the
> > initiative system, and most groups have about 30 house rules to fix all
>
> For the Initiative, they GOT IT RIGHT. He who shoots first shoots last.
And, in many cases, this is *STILL* the situation as it stands.
> For magic, thier engine needs a little help, but there are things that are
> fundamentally screwed up in the roleplaying aspect by FASA cannon. If what
> I call the Dreamtime is what they call the Astral, then they boned it
> entirely. And they didn't talk to anyone who is a practicing shamanist
> about how Spirits and thier humans, and practitioners, work, nor did they
> get spirit interpritations very correct. (Anyone who calls Raven a coward
> is welcome to make that mistake with me- once. FYI, Wolf and Grandmother
> are either sisters or differnt faecs for the same person.) They should
> have spent 20 bucks for a book, read it, and then started with what the
> Spirits mean.
Kevin, I'm going to calmly say this. You are speaking out of the mind of
someone who has a strongly biased viewpoint and refuses to let alternative
views find their way. I'm not saying your views are wrong, they just do NOT
work for a game mechanic. I do know what I'm saying, and believe it or not,
Steve K. probably has a pretty good grasp on "Magic" as well.
Spirit Paths, in the manner of which you are speaking, are NOT something
readily playable in terms of "Game Mechanics". Sure, as a role playing
situation, they are incredibly helpful, and incredibly insightful even. But
not as a game mechanic.
> (Don't ask me to explain this stuff, becuase unless you've experinced it,
> you won't have a common frame of refernce. I grew up with it, and I didn't
> understand 0.001% of it until I experinced it.)
Okay, I'll ask you to explain it (via PRIVATE EMAIL), because buddy, you are
NOT unique in your experiences nor are you unique in your backgrounds. There
are a lot of people out there, and each and every one of them have
experiences that are both uniquely their own and unquestionable shared.
People jump all over me whenever I get on a "High Horse" but rarely ever do
they consider what exactly it is they are saying, let alone the kind of
person/people they may be actually saying it to. Some of us may be military
afficianados (like Paul J., or even yourself), but there are some of us that
are afficianados of MULTIPLE belief and occult structures beyond just a given
viewpoint. Don't let words like "Shamanism" color your viewpoint of the
game. The term only works *barely* in a game viewpoint. IMPO, I think
"Mysticism" would have been better, less "racist" or
"restricted" a statement
(shrug).
> > Don;t play with SR3 if you don;t want to. But whether the few of you
that
> > don't like SR3 agree or not, it WAS necessary.
>
> OK, simple question: could you have lived with SR2? I'm will to be you
> did for a number of years. SR2 works fine for most things. And I'm
> willing to bet that at least half of the groups out there are using it.
Oh sure, we've lived with SR2 for a long time, just as you had. However,
we've also, just as you probably have, come up with a slew of House Rules and
other things in order for the game "we" called Shadowrun to be more playable.
As the SR3 mechanics stand, they are easier to play and encourage MORE
people to play (the initiative system is just one example) from the outset,
without the house rules. From so many peole who have commented on this
issue, the problems seem to always stem from "but that's not the way we've
done it and we don't want to change" mentality. Your own voicing included
here.
Does it (the game) work for pure realism? Actually yes. But you need to use
those optional rules in the books more often.
For instance, if I were to shoot at someone, the concept of "Wound Shock"
(Knockdown) isn't commonly being taken into consideration. Sure, wound
modifiers exist, but if someone gets shot with a pistol (most calibres), they
are going to feel *something* of some kind. That IMO is likely going to make
that person slow down considerably in a real fight. Enough so that whomever
got the first *connecting* shot is likely going to be able to continue to
pound the ever living out of a given target with often minimal resistance.
But, in order for a game mechanic to be both functional and playable, it has
to allow for people and their PC's to get a blow/word in edgewise. This is
so for magic, melee, and any other form of mayhem as well.
You have your opinions, and they are obviously very established ones. Bull
and I both have ours. In this instance, we just don't agree with yours.
-K
