| From: | korishinzo@*****.com (Ice Heart) |
|---|---|
| Subject: | SR4 Conversion |
| Date: | Tue, 26 Jul 2005 11:47:24 -0700 (PDT) |
> Threshhold could be altered. Regardless, that sort of imperfect
> information is not my style. I'm always clear about the TNs and so
> forth, even when it reveals information like you mention. It
> promotes rules knowledge and OOC discussion of IC reality. Your
> method is valid, but it can mystify new players, and some GMs might
> use the hidden mechanic to railroad the players into failing when
> they shouldn't. That's just my observation, though.
I do not tell my players the TN for a task under the normal course of
play. They roll their dice and relate the humber to me, usually with
a hastily scribbled note while I am helping some other player figure
out their dice for a given roll. I look at the numbers and tell them
what happens. Now, there are times when a character should be able
to know approximately how hard something. For example, if a PC is
running across a rooftop, senses a drop, and hurls themself over it
hoping to land safely on the other side, they have no reason to know
their chance of success (this happened in a combat scenario). But,
if they walk up, examine the gap, their traction, and other factors,
they have a reasonable chance of correctly guessing their chance of
making the jump. Thus, players who sacrifice actions/time to make
observation tests and knowledge skill rolls will be told their TN,
because that is analagous to their character developing an idea of
their chances of success. As an example, in a recent SR game, one of
the players created a very meticulous sniper. The character had a
Background Knowledge for their Rifles skill and an Interest Knowledge
called Sniping Tactics. They would sight in a shot using an
Observation test, followed by a Rifles BK and a Sniping roll. The
use of these 3 actions gave them, In and Out of Character, a very
clear idea of how feasible the shot was. Then they set about Aiming
and shooting. In those cases, I had no problem telling them they had
x TN. And if they achieved what should have been successes and
failed to get the kill, they should know In Character that something
is up.
In other words, whether you tell your players their TN or tell them
how many dice to roll, you are conveying tangible information about
the game world/physics to them. That information is going to
influence their actions, even if it should not. Even a very skilled
shooter should not know exactly what their chance of hitting a moving
target at night in the rain is. In my games, TN's of 2-4 are fairly
routine activities, almost too easy to ask for a roll. TN's of
5-6(7) are challenging. 8-10 is getting very hard. Beyond that, the
task is probably best reconsidered. I am sure this TN spread is true
for most GMs and Players. So, if someone asks me what their TN is in
the middle of a tense situation with no actions used for observation,
my typical response is to say "seems simple" or "that's going to be a
challenge" or "this is starting to look like a bad idea". Never the
actual number, unless they actively pause and try to gather further
information.
Yes, changing the dice pool is probably more intuitively obvious and
easier to grasp/remember for players of all skill levels. It also is
going to create the same kind of dice monsters that various WoD games
did. Personally, I don't like it. I like the players to be
responsible for knowing how good their character is at something (the
number of dice to be rolls), but not necessarily aware of all the
environmental factors in a situation (the TN needed and/or success
threshold required). To the extent that I often don't tell players
in the heat of combat what sort of injuries they sustain. They have
to stop and perform a Biotech skill roll on themself (or assense
themself) to gauge how injured they are. I just describe things and
make a note of accumualted TN mods as I go. This has always been,
ignoring varying degrees of clunky implementation over the years, a
great strength of Shadowrun. There is information the players should
know, and information they should only be able to guess at. The twin
variables of dice pool and TN neatly simulate this. I feel that a
unique, and for me essential, element of the game is lost if you
eliminate this.
I will continue to read reviews of SR4, and may someday purchase the
main book just to perform a first hand analysis. However, as it
stands, I would rather keep developing house rules to streamline SR3
than play a radically different set of core mechanics under SR4. I
am no more in favor of a WoD knockoff than I was a D&D knockoff. D20
Shadowrun and Heaps-O-Dice Shadowrun are both too distant a departure
for me to accept.
======Korishinzo
--"Don't ask me what the TN is, tell me what you rolled." (Said by
me an average of three times per game session since 1989.) :)
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