From:	korishinzo@*****.com (Ice Heart)
Subject:	SR4 Conversion
Date:	Wed, 27 Jul 2005 08:44:08 -0700 (PDT)

> I find that what players want to know is "what's going on here."
> No.
> They won't sit and read a book and learn it, because that's really
> no
> way to learn. The best way is to sit down and play, and go over
> each
> system slowly. Will they memorize it all? Nope. Will they remember
> it
> when prodded, and know where in the books to look? Yes. Personally,
> I
> play most of my shadowrun online, which means I'm typically dealing
> with a different set of characters almost every time. There will
> always be people who don't know the system, as long as there are
> GMs
> who expect them to learn it on their own time. Personally? I use a
> system whereby the wound, environmental and external modifiers for
> each person are on display (with the reasoning "unknown modifier",
> if
> they haven't figured it out ICly.) and then I tell the player to
> declare their dice, apply their own TN mods, and roll. If they
> forget
> something, it's typically to their own detriment.
>
> This can be easily done with two sets of colored markers at the
> gaming
> table, and makes learning rules much simpler. A player's ignorance
> can
> be cured, but only if they are allowed to help implement the rules.
> No
> one ever mastered anything without practical application. I think
> you
> give your players too little credit.

Ahhh, I think I did convery the full reason for my frustration with
players in this regard. For a couple of years I had a wall mounted
dry erase board the size of a classroom chalkboard. Most of one
wall. In addition to tactical maps, I wrote out clearly such things
as condition monitors, initiative scores, TN mods... anything that
would help the players learn the system. Furthermore, about 2 or 3
times a year I run a 'combat night'. The players are handed
pregenerated characters and scenarios. Play for the evening revolves
around tactical combat using the SR game setting. These nights are
loaded with exploration of the various SR mechanics. Many of my
combat-relevant house rules came out of these 6 to 8 hour sessions.

So, I disagree that I am giving my players too little credit. If
players are handed rule books with the combat section bookmarked,
handed typed up summaries of the most relevant combat rules, and run
through the various mechanics in detail at least twice a campaign,
they have some obligation IMO to get past a question like "how many
times can I shoot that guy this Turn?" Yet some of my longest
running gamers ask precisely such stupid questions. Raw newbies tend
to take a different approach. They are usually the ones who say
something like "I want to duck behind something, poke my head up, and
shoot the guy with the Uzi." And then patiently wait for me to tell
them what they can and can't do, what to roll, etc. They are the
ones I will gladly help out. Show them rules, explain why such and
such happened, and so on. If you've been at my gaming table through
two dozen shadowrun combats, and you ask me yet again how to figure
out your initiative, I start getting a bit annoyed. I had someone in
my last SR game who, after 11 months of gaming nearly every Saturday
night, still had to ask every time how to figure their initiative.
Never mind that their character sheet has a place that says
"Reaction" with a number next to it, a place on the same row that
says "Initiatve Dice" with an XD6 notation next to it, and a note at
the end of that row that says "Initiative = Reaction + Initiative
Dice". This row is right under the section on Attributes. Hard to
miss. You'd think.

I even create helpful NPCs, present for the sole purpose of showing
the players their options. These NPCs use the various Actions and
options to maximize their tactical advantage. Early in the campaign,
I reveal every nuance of what that NPC is doing. To typcially blank
or impatient stares.

No, I have been more than patient in trying to get my players to
understand and use SR mechanics. These days I just tell them what to
roll and make them give me the results of the roll on a post-it note.
Trust me, it saves time. :/

======Korishinzo
--I've earned my cynicism :)





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