| From: | keith@***********.com (Keith Johnson) |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Lightning Ball vs Vehicle. Uber Spell or How Does It Work? |
| Date: | Fri, 29 Jul 2005 14:39:50 -0700 |
> could take a person, even an armored person, from healthy to
> the brink of death or beyond can't even scratch a paint job
> on a car because that is balanced? I understand your answer,
> but that is IMO a very cheap caveat. Even a little bit of
> common sense pokes holes in the game balance argument.
Stick your finger in a light socket... or better yet,
cut an electrical cord, plug it in, and grab one wire in
each of your hands. That's 15 amps and 110 volts in the USA
and 220 volts and I don't know how many amps in most of Europe.
That will, can, and routinely does kill a human, but won't
do squat to a car.
Oh... and scratching/burning/marring a paint job isn't
considered damage in SR terms. So you're free to mar the
paint, inflict score marks and other cosmetic damage to
the vehicle.
>A LAW is anti-vehiclular. What are the drawback to using it?
>High availability. Expensive. Illegal. Obvious to any
>observer. A Force 8 manipulation spell is going to be
>difficult to come by, probably cost a lot, be highly illegal
>to use, and after one goes off, "geek the mage" becomes the
>rallying cry of every NPC. In addition, casting the spell
>will have a good chance to leaving the caster halfway to
>unconscious.
Which is why only amateurs use flashy magic... Glue Strip
is a much more effective anti-vehicle weapon if you're
going to go that way because unlike any other spell in
the game, glue strip only affects the tires.
>>Ah... I see what's going on here. You're using your own
>>imagination, based on what you've seen and what you
>>know to discredit the game effects.
> >
> > That's backwards. Let me explain:
>
> [SNIP]
>
> I kind of hope you are joking.
Nope, I was being totally serious.
>Game mechanics exist to provide an abstract method of
>vicarious interaction with an imaginary world.
I could not disagree more.
Game mechanics (ie the Rules) are the laws of physics in
the universe of the game. They are the concete description
of reality within the fantasy setting. They are the only
science that counts.
We do not vicariously interact within the game.
We use the rules to understand the way the game
world works in exactly the same way that we use
Isaac Newton, Albert Einstein, Marie Currie,
Stephen Hawking, and the lot of them to understand
the way this world works.
>Shadowrun's setting happens to be largely based on
>the real world.
Ok... same with D&D... gravity points down, trees
grow up, leather comes from sex shops... largely
based on the real world.
>Hence, the laws of physics as we know them still
>apply.
The is a completely untrue statement. The laws of
physics in the game are the same as the laws of
physics in the real only *only* when they are not
redefined by explicit and implicit interpretations
of the Game Designers' Rules.
The Rules of the Game are the description of the
way the universe works, and when you argue that
the way the real world works is different from
the way the game rules say they do... and as such
you want to rewrite the rules...
>The best guage of consistancy is common sense.
Common sense is a crappy gauge because everyone's
idea of common sense is different. That's why the
Rules of the game are so important. They codify
the laws of physics in the game world.
>Common sense, for me, says that the spell's Force (8)
>is not enough to penetrate the vehicle's armor (12).
>However, the secondary effect of the spell does
>some peripheral damage.
>Tires go bye-bye.
Rubber is a notorious insulator...
>Metal warps and some parts get melted. For the most part the
>vehicle is fine (not enough structural damage to warrant even
>an L wound).
And oddly enough this is well within the framework of the
rules as they're already written.
>However, it is suddenly without external sensors or
>functional tires, and it has probably picked up a
>Stress point or two.
That's probably within the framework of the rules are well.
>It is not that I use my imagination to rewrite the game.
>But I also don't let the game dictate entirely my imagination.
Then you are going to continue to disagree with folks about
game effects and the nature of 'game reality.'
The truth is that the reason the game designers decided on
half the Force vs Armor is that they felt it balanced the
physics of the game world.
Personally, I think it was a bad decision on their part,
and as a result, I never build a mage who uses Elemental
Manipulations... I veiw them as far too inefficient.
>A balance is needed to assure a modicum of verssimilitude.
>Suspension of disbelief for me requires a believable jumping
>off point. Even imaginary worlds have to make sense
>unto themselves.
That's why a good game does a good job of defining its laws
of physics in a way that the players are able to relate to.
-k
