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From: Unknown sender
Subject: None
Date: Unknown time and date
Shadowrun Drinking Game v1.0
****************************
Every time...

you roll more than 10 dice for a single test, take a drink.
... without allocating any pool dice, take two drinks.

if a player needs to roll more dice than your gaming group owns, take
a drink. ... if it ISN'T during the Matrix 1.0 rules, take two drinks.

you meet someone "named" Johnson, take a drink.
... if s/he uses the phrase "minimal complications," take two drinks.

the word "foci" is mispronounced, take a drink.

a PC is turned into a Vampire, take a drink.
... if the player is happy about it, take two drinks.

the players ask for more money, take a drink.

anyone takes a karma reroll, finish the whole drink.

a Wasp or Yellowjacket is shot down with a pistol, take a drink.
... if it's a hold out, take two drinks.

a die falls off the intended rolling surface, the offender takes a
drink equal to the value of the die is showing when you pick it up.

someone says "Can I borrow your book?" the enquiring party drinks.

the party calls their contacts instead of doing their own legwork,
take a drink.

any time a samurai says, "Who needs <insert spell> when I have <insert
weapon>?", take a drink.

someone incorrectly uses a piece of 21st century slang, take a drink.
... if it's the GM, finish whole drink.

a player asks if a purchase is considered as included as part of
his/her lifestyle, take a drink. ... if the player needs the gunnery
skill to use it, finish drink.

you have a target number of 2, and your open ended roll results in a
... 10+, take a drink. ... 20+, take two drinks. ... 30+ finish the
drink.

someone in your party mentions negotiating, and pats his concealed
hand gun, take a drink.

you go to a resturant, and order "real meat", have a drink.

an NPC in a module has an UZI III, have a drink.

someone sings, whistles, or hums "Karma Chameleon" while spending
karma, take a drink. ... if they play the song, take 2. :]
------------------------------
Thomas "Nylar" Berman
"Dump Shock - Taste The Magic!"

gametheory@***********.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:24:42 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John Dukes <dukes@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Movie
In-Reply-To: <35C24EF6.6324@*********.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>How about putting Christopher Lambert in as a phys ad?

Jackie Chan.

-Teeg
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:43:54 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Anime & Hentai Suggestions WAS: FASA in the movies
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> > Try Golgo 13 (The Professional). I haven't watched it, but it has SR plot
> > elements (wetwork...).
> Try Cybercity Oedo 808 - quite shadowrun-ny.

What's it about? I haven't even heard of it before.

> > Wicked City is heacier on the mystical side, but
> > it's a bit hentai.
> Nah... not enough tentacles... ;)

I don't even wanna know.-tryin' to get rid of memories of
Urotsukidoji(sp?)-
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:45:06 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA in the movies
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> > Robotech was done by the Americans, by stitching togheter 3 anime
> > series... (I really prefer the original Macross series and
> > its derivates. Macross Plus rocks! Kinda cyberpunk, actually :) ) .
> Macross Plus does indeed rock, and the soundtracks (all three of them)
> are good for background music for SR sessions.

Hmm. Never thought 'bout tryin' that. Although I must admit I haven't
heard the soundtrack in a couple years.

> There's also a 10-minute short anime called 'Running Man' - VERY VERY
> good for understanding riggers...

Huh. I guess I'll have to see if I can find a copy.
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 00:58:08 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Anime & Hentai Suggestions)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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TINNER'S SHADOWRUN ANIME, MANGA & ETC VIEWING LIST

Golgo 13 - Yeah, it's a bit cheesey but still fun to watch.
Riding Bean - For all the reasons mentioned before.
Gatchaman/Battle of the Planets/G-Force/Eagle Riders - Just for the "5-Team"
concept. (Leader, Hothead, Babe, Lunk, Kid)
Black Magic M-66 - When a robot goes wrong ...
MD Geist -Attitude is everything
8-Man - One of the first cyborg Anime characters. It's a little dated now,
but still quite interesting.
Mighty Atom/Astro Boy - For an example of how an AI might act, IMO.
Ghost in the Shell - Duh ...
Robotech - For one concept of a Rigger interface.
Lupin: Castle of Cagliostro - If you want to play a theif, look here. Great
fun!

Hmmm ... it's late, I'm tired. I post more if I can remember them.

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://listen.to/Tinner
"I'm the kind of guy who laughs at a funeral ..." - BNL
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 01:03:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Future Shock - SR tech in today's world
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If you have a Real Audio player and are interested, check out the following
link. And listen to the show about the hand.

http://www.npr.org/programs/totn/archives/1998/current.html

Apparently their working on transplanting an entire HAND from one boy to
another.
Organlegging is nigh! ;-)

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://listen.to/Tinner
"I'm the kind of guy who laughs at a funeral ..." - BNL
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 15:14:42 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Anime & Hentai Suggestions WAS: FASA in the movies
In-Reply-To: <35C22C87.7060@**********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> > > Try Golgo 13 (The Professional). I haven't watched it, but it has SR plot
> > > elements (wetwork...).
> > Try Cybercity Oedo 808 - quite shadowrun-ny.
>
> What's it about? I haven't even heard of it before.

A Bladerunner-type world done manga-style - the cops are ex-criminals
who are forced by a wedlock-style collar to obey (and enforce) the
law... etc etc. Monofilament whips, vampires, and orbital platforms...

> > > Wicked City is heacier on the mystical side, but
> > > it's a bit hentai.
> > Nah... not enough tentacles... ;)
>
> I don't even wanna know.-tryin' to get rid of memories of
> Urotsukidoji(sp?)-

What are you talking about?! Urotsukidoji rocks!

Lady Jestyr

- It's not pretty being easy -
| Elle Holmes | jestyr@**********.com | http://jestyr.home.ml.org |
| Shadowrun Webring Ringmaster | GeoCities Leader | RPGA Reviewer |
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:12:07 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Re: (T) More Received Payments
In-Reply-To: <e2c8afc4.35c15e09@***.com>
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> Granite

> Granite, I -never- received anything from that address list up to this time,
> so we are definitely going to have to find that UPS shipment..

Hurrah....Well..I'll leave the UPS dude to my wife..Hmm..that didn't
sound quite right..Any way..I am just happy you finally got the
money...
Contact my at GenCon and we will make an anouncement just before the
Tourney that you are the one to see about the T-Shirts...I'll be in
the muster area about a half hour early..

Cool..Now I'm happy :)

--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
Understanding is a three edged sword. - Kosh
What is best in life?
To Crush Your Enemies,
To See Them Driven Before You,
To Hear The Lamentation Of Their Women. -Conan
I Am The LAW! -JD
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 01:30:43 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Anime & Hentai Suggestions
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Once upon a time, Lady Jestyr wrote;

>What are you talking about?! Urotsukidoji rocks!

How long have you been in the hospital? B>]#
<<glad you're back on the list>>

-MC23, who has yet to finish the third series-
"or was that the 4th I left off on?"
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 16:17:53 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Anime & Hentai Suggestions
In-Reply-To: <199808010530.BAA16418@********.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> >What are you talking about?! Urotsukidoji rocks!
>
> How long have you been in the hospital? B>]#

Eight weeks, but that's irrelevant. Urotsukidoji rocks. :)

(All my male friends were totally grossed out and couldn't keep
watching... I was sitting there going 'yeah, this is cool'... my friends
have never looked at me the same since.)

Lady Jestyr
Tentacle Porn, Tentacle Porn!
- It's not pretty being easy -
| Elle Holmes | jestyr@**********.com | http://jestyr.home.ml.org |
| Shadowrun Webring Ringmaster | GeoCities Leader | RPGA Reviewer |
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 02:27:24 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: T-Shirt Aquisitions (Gencon)
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Okay folks, for those that are going to Gencon and want to aquire your shirts
there, you may do so in one of two fashions that I can think of.

I am going to be at the FASA Q&A Seminar on Thursday (I hope...), as well as
throughout the convention itself until Sunday afternoon or so.

I am staying at the UWM in the suite of rooms in Tim Kerby's name (Drekhead).

If you can meet me at one of these two places, that will be the best way to
work things out. I am NOT going to be carrying all these shirts around the
convention, so I'll either keep them locked up in the room under guard (well,
a fairly watchful group anyway ;) or physically locked up in my car's trunk
(maybe, but I am not hip on this idea).

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 02:41:29 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: D@** This is getting long ;) (Re: Morph Seeking Weapons)
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In a message dated 7/31/1998 6:02:26 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
acgetchell@*******.EDU writes:

> Sure, spectrophotography can even tell you what type of amino acid it is,
> etc. But it seems unlikely that it will ever be able to decode base
> sequence pairs: the resolution isn't there. Also, where in the bullet are
> they putting the spectrophotography with the chip to do the Fast Fourier
> Transform on the incoming data?

Not the bullet, the gun.

> Sure, but can you put that technology into a bullet or on a rifle, in a
> rugged form? I doubt it.

Today, no you sure as hell probably cannot. In 20XX (latter half)? Oh I
think so, especially when taking into consideration the given level of
substance within SR mechanics of cyberware and simsense interface technology.

> Ultraviolet light requires a higher powered emitter: can't do it on the
> bullet. On the rifle it's going to be essentially a stepped down Klystron
> or other pulse-power emitter. Not to mention the energy signature (UV does
> ionize; just follow the track of ozone) and the nasty side effects from
> having a soft radiation source next to your skull. Any "harder" radiation
> exacerbates these problems.

I was using the UV type as an example, and it doesn't have to be an unshielded
emitter either. As for harder radiation types, that removes the concept of
Stealth IMO, as things like MAD and IR/UV detection equipment are suddenly
going to have a greater than normal chance of being triggered.

> Right. Write off the DNA analysis and this becomes possible, though never
> 100% accurate. Probably close. [You do have to consider environmental
> factors, et. al]

Actually, all of the environmental factors are being considered here. Also,
"Environmental Factors" can literally be programmed into an "Information
Titration Grid", and thus have their more noticeable side effects removed from
the factors of the gun. Stuff like wind, air temp, pressure (barometric or
otherwise), static ionization rates, and the like can all readily be built
into a Sniper System. ESPECIALLY considering cybertechnology as well as
general computer micronization that would run parallel to cybertech
developments and them implaced within the Sniper Rifle itself.

> I would reserve those options to a full Tactical computer. I don't think
> the Morphseeker would have the database or sensors sufficient to
> distinguish this. It's purpose built for one target. Tactical computers are
> for threat analysis, situational awareness, detection and classification,
> and prediction.

You just said the same thing I did, just with different terms... :P

> BTW, now that they have TAPS autosoft for targetting should be possible to
> do something similar with skillwires. Oh, and a Sentinel Drone equipped
> with a Sentry gun and TAPS autosoft and decent sensors can roll 18 dice or
> so, plus Tactical computer lockon dice (about 8 of those per customer).
> That's of course, not counting the Rigger's combat pool or IVIS pool. My
> players are probably dreading the run against the drone guarded base ...
;-)

-WE- already dreaded those games, then after twice it nearly killed us
outright, we decided to enter the "Arms Race" ourselves. Now drone technology
is literally -THE- big thing in our games, standing easily side-by-side with
magic here.

> I'd still probably just use a tactical computer since it's more flexible,
> powerful, and (via BattleTac) smarter. But if those funny elves want it ...

Hey, you said yourself ... their "funny".... ;p

But in all honesty, I agree overall with you in your opinions concerning
"comparisons of power and flexibility" between a BattleTAC/Tactical Computer
and a "Morphseeker". However, we also note that the "Morphseeker"
legend in
SR stems from several factors.

Elven Physical Adepts of nightmarish abilities...
A Nation of Elven Supremicists...
Higher than Standard Range Damage codes for Sniper Rifles in SR Mechanics...
THAT DAMN ELVEN THING!!!

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 02:45:02 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Movie
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 7/31/1998 6:14:08 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
zmjett@*********.COM writes:

> Speaking of dragons...GOTTA have Sean Connery as either the voice of
> Dunkelzahn or an aging mage. Come on, Sean Connery rules!

Agree with this last part :)

> How about putting Christopher Lambert in as a phys ad?

What, so they can utilize a TON of choreography on the actions, more than
normal, as Chris is going blind (and damn do I wish he wasn't).

> I'd like to see Donald Southerland in there too, perhaps as a slightly
> over-the-edge street doc, a la Dark City...

You mean Keiffer Sutherland, as he is the one who did Dark City...

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 02:47:47 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
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In a message dated 7/31/1998 6:35:03 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
acgetchell@*******.EDU writes:

> Hooking the suit up to a Suncell power system would negate its purpose, as
> it would be completely visible and easily detectable.
>
> Solar cells are predicated on the idea of a particular frequency being able
> to knock electons loose in the material; current and voltages then being
> generated to do work. This means (to be efficient, thus viable as a power
> source) that you want your solar wafer to be able to absorb as much light
> in the peak frequency as possible. As our sun is yellow, your solar cell
> would be really good at absorbing this frequency. "Really good" might mean
> 15 - 20 %. The rest is reflected, backscattered, etc.

Adam, two things....

First, please reply your stuff AFTER the section you quote (it's in the
FAQ's... ;)

Second, Mike is stating the Suncell from the POV of when the RP is NOT in use,
as a means of recharging the batteries "in the field", without a need to carry
things like extra batteries all over the place.

Also, we've used "Suncell" all over the place in the games here. Sure, the
pollution is nuts in many places, but NOT everywhere. And when you put up a
tent, the tent itself is lined with Suncell Receptor Materials.

Give that radio an extra flux point or two for range, and everyone will be
happy :)

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 02:54:11 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: SR3 Doubts
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In a message dated 7/31/1998 7:48:21 PM US Eastern Standard Time, remo@***.NET
writes:

>
> You think that now that they've got Target: UCAS and Target: Smuggler's
> Havens that they might consider Target: CAS?
>
> -
<K immediately grabs another power pack for his shield projection system, as
he's now concerned about MC23 and the rest getting going on the "South" topic
again... j/k ;>

Seriously though, the "Place" books such as the "Target" series is not
an
entirely bad concept. I do not believe there is a chance of a "CAS" being
done anytime soon, though admittedly, it probably does need to be considered.

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 02:57:08 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Warning: Black Lodge Topic Contained Herein (Re: UB and
Scientology [was: UB])
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In a message dated 7/31/1998 8:13:17 PM US Eastern Standard Time, Dhl9@***.COM
writes:

> When I think of scientology, I think gnostic, which takes me right to secret
> societies. Is anybody making use of the Black Lodge? Right now I am having
> to
> rein myself in on just how many secret societies I have running loose in my
> game. The Pentultimate master practices magic on a level unequaled in the
> 6th
> world. I can't be the only one intrigued by that. On the FASA boards here
at
> AOL I asked has the Black Lodge been battling the Atlantean Foundation down
> through the ages? I asked the question twice and it was never responded to.
> Are there magical human immortals too?
>
Okay, yes, the Black Lodge is used here in the games by Mike and Myself rather
extensively. BUT, our games are considerably higher powered than most.

Additionally, what the Penultimate Master can perform is anyone's guess, and
should be left that way.

As for "battling down through the ages" with the Atlantean Foundation, I don't
think so, though it would make a good plot twist here and there.

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 02:00:50 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: SR3 Doubts
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>> You think that now that they've got Target: UCAS and Target: Smuggler's
>> Havens that they might consider Target: CAS?
>
><K immediately grabs another power pack for his shield projection system,
as
>he's now concerned about MC23 and the rest getting going on the "South"
topic
>again... j/k ;>

Oh, just fraggin' lovely...I come in and open another wound. Story of my
life these days....

In any event, us wild-eyed Southern boys have to stick together.

>Seriously though, the "Place" books such as the "Target" series is
not an
>entirely bad concept. I do not believe there is a chance of a "CAS" being
>done anytime soon, though admittedly, it probably does need to be
considered.

I wish they'd consider it sooner than later, and let some of us who live
here at least proof-read the damn thing. I'm a little tired of the game
being *quite* so Seattle-centric, simply because, having been to Seattle, I
can't say that I'd want to live or work there. Lovely vacation spot, very
friendly people...it ain't my home. I'm not, unfortunately, all that good
at being a futurist or extrapolating things, or I'd just do it myself, at
least for Amarillo.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 03:00:49 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jett <zmjett@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Movie
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K is the Symbol wrote:

>
> You mean Keiffer Sutherland, as he is the one who did Dark City...
>
> -K


Yep, got me on that one, but I DO like Donald Sutherland as well. As an
aging mage, I would think, a bit a la Buffy the Vampire Slayer (the
movie, not the series). Kiefer as the street doc. :)


--Jett

<*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>


"I'll make this clear, that I'm just here for backup. And to offer the
occasional advice or insult."
--Jett, on being an NPC

Behold the mighty sonic scream of the Jett!

http://www.scifi-fantasy.com/~zmjett/shadow.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 03:12:46 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: SR3 Doubts
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In a message dated 8/1/1998 2:03:24 AM US Eastern Standard Time, remo@***.NET
writes:

> I wish they'd consider it sooner than later, and let some of us who live
> here at least proof-read the damn thing. I'm a little tired of the game
> being *quite* so Seattle-centric, simply because, having been to Seattle, I
> can't say that I'd want to live or work there. Lovely vacation spot, very
> friendly people...it ain't my home. I'm not, unfortunately, all that good
> at being a futurist or extrapolating things, or I'd just do it myself, at
> least for Amarillo.
>
I tell ya what, you do a piece on "Amarillo" for the year 2060 (or
thereabouts) and I'll put it on the HHH website of Mike and I's. I'll put
your name and an email link. Hell, if we get a couple of good ones', maybe we
can make our own in a pretty good net-book type format.

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 02:18:38 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: SR3 Doubts
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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>I tell ya what, you do a piece on "Amarillo" for the year 2060 (or
>thereabouts) and I'll put it on the HHH website of Mike and I's. I'll put
>your name and an email link. Hell, if we get a couple of good ones', maybe
we
>can make our own in a pretty good net-book type format.

Me and my big damn mouth....

Okay, I'll add it to my plate and see what I can come up with. I hope
you're not on a timetable...I've got a lot going on at the moment.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 03:24:03 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: SR3 Doubts
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 8/1/1998 2:19:24 AM US Eastern Standard Time, remo@***.NET
writes:

>
> Me and my big damn mouth....

(hands you the Shoes of Dunkelzah...which can be yours, for only 19.95 a
month...;)

> Okay, I'll add it to my plate and see what I can come up with. I hope
> you're not on a timetable...I've got a lot going on at the moment.

Me!!!???!!! Timetable?!? What on earth is that?!? I've got Gencon, T-Shirts,
Hoosier Hacker House updates (I promised Wigs I'd work on the backgrounds of
some of the pages), the Aztlan PBEM to end by September, and a full time job
and a full time relationship (as in, LIVE-IN)...I have no idea what a "Time
Table" would even look like :P

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:14:48 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: That Mojo Attitude (was Re: Cybergeezers)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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>Ok, people know that magic exists. I am not denying that. What I am
>saying is how many people have actually seen magic in action? Like a
>spell being cast, or a spirit? Not many. Yes, more have seen the
>effects of magic, but not actually magic itself. Seeing a dragon is
>not actually what I am talking about. I am referring to spellcasting,
>conjuring, echanting, astral projection, etc. Most people have never
>witnessed those things. Here about them, sure. See the results of
>those actions, sure. But actually see them? Not usually.


More than likely, the only way the great unwashed masses know of magic
and its effects is what they see on the trid. Now how accurate that is
and the spin the various media outlets put on it, one can only guess,
but imagine how things get slanted today, and extrapolate from there.

Tony Rabiola rabiola@**.netcom.com
Fourth and Sixth World Adept
Still working on the Fifth...
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 03:55:56 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: That Mojo Attitude (was Re: Cybergeezers)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 8/1/1998 2:45:51 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM writes:

> More than likely, the only way the great unwashed masses know of magic
> and its effects is what they see on the trid. Now how accurate that is
> and the spin the various media outlets put on it, one can only guess,
> but imagine how things get slanted today, and extrapolate from there.
>
I don't know though if I can bring myself to agreeing about this. I mean,
anyone in the western section of the US could probably believe it.

People living in Tenochtitlan would also have to believe...it's part of their
governmental and religious structure even.

And as for encountering it, oh yeah, people encounter it all over the place.
Like the mentioning of the "bullet" that failed to hit Lugh Surehand in TT.

Or all those people that are in DC that are around the "rupture".

Or anyone in Amazonia with their rapid-as-hell overgrowth problems.

Go to the "Alabaster Maiden", and take a look at the nice woman too...hear the
tales and let your imagination wander a bit.

Imagine the Barriers spells that get thrown up during emergency requirements
to hold back rioters...

Go into New Orleans and witness the fun of the Mambo and their friends first
hand...just wait as the number of "Serviteurs" will slowly grow.

Oh yeah, "Mojo Attitude" is a good title for this thread...

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 04:16:50 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: That Mojo Attitude (was Re: Cybergeezers)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 01/08/98 02:56:44 Central Daylight Time, Ereskanti@***.COM
writes:

> I don't know though if I can bring myself to agreeing about this. I mean,
> anyone in the western section of the US could probably believe it.
>
> Oh yeah, "Mojo Attitude" is a good title for this thread...

Perhaps a good way of thinking about this is to think about how many people
you know, be they close friends, lovers, relatives you see at Yule, or people
you say "Hi" to when you pass them in the halls (be that at school or in the
office or wherever)... people who you know their names and a bit (or a lot)
about them. For all but the most withdrawn of us, its going to be at least a
hundred.

Now imagine one of these people has something really special about them,
something that is beyond your comprehension. Perhaps this person has a
special way of looking at things, or is a great judge of character from just a
quick introduction (astral perception). Or a flamboyant personality, an edge
that says "I'm good, I know it, and I can actually back it up".

Even in my mother's hometown (a tiny burg smaller than my High School), you'd
have at least 10 people who were magically active, be they mages or shamans or
physads. In a city like New York, with millions of people, there are going to
be tens of thousands of magically active people, some of whom will be quite
visible.

I don't think the average Joe is going to never have seen magic, even if its
just a street illusionist or a local Bear shaman trying to make his corner of
the Barrens a bit healthier. Will he be impressed by it? Hell, yes. Will
some of them fear it? Hell yes with five exclamation points (which I won't
put in). People I know fear blacks, gays, Jews, and anyone that is different,
whether they have power or not. When those fears or grounded ("Sure, the
quarterback says his Talent is only focussed on football, but did you hear
what he did to Bobby Richardson? Damn near threw him through the wall..."
"Maybe Suzie says she doesn't know any 'real' spells yet, but she set fire to
Mr. Fredrick's desk because he gave her an F on her paper), the fears will be
even bigger... but I think less likely to come out, because the fear is based
on the possibility of actually physical harm befalling them, not on "Hey, he
doesn't eat pork!"

Nexx
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 10:50:29 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <chimerae@***.iol.ie>
From: Martin Steffens <chimerae@***.IE>
Subject: Re: effects of bugs/Awakening
In-Reply-To: <AFFFCF221D65D111923800805FA7E86D501221@***********>
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and thus did bryan.covington@****.COM speak on 30 Jul 98 at 11:21:

> I am not sure about the details of foreign governments
> but with both the US system and the Parliamentary systems the people
> HAVE doe exactly that. We just changed the titles. Prime
> Minister/President = King, Congressmen/Parliament people (don't know
> the term) = Nobles.
> The power is lessened than it was before, particularly
> of the king figure, but it's still the same. The people don't make laws
> the nobles do. We already put affairs of state in the hands of nobles.
> It's evolved a bit but with a little infusion of power its the same
> system all over again.

You're missing a very big point here, of course there is a ruling
class of politicians who rule the country, but they're replaceable.
Nobles tended to have their posts for live and then their son got it,
not matter what his skill set was (and there was a fair amount
of inbreeding going on in most noble houses).
Plus Sir Rulealot could get away with almost everything, as long as
it didn't involve witchcraft (had to be extremely blatant, this
French noble Gilles de Rais had killed over 100 children in his
little castle of hell before they charged him) or rebelling against
the king (unless he was on the winning side).
Little pass times like "flog the commoner for bumping into me" or
"tax the commoner to the max and give 10% to the king" he could get
away with, heck some of them considered these to be their divine
right. They didn't just make the rules, but also executed them and
there wasn't much around to control them.

Nope, feudalism is one of those government types you don't want to
try out except in Civilization :)

Karina & Martin Steffens
chimerae@***.ie
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 10:50:29 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <chimerae@***.iol.ie>
From: Martin Steffens <chimerae@***.IE>
Subject: Re: Scent of a Woman
In-Reply-To: <199807301606.MAA16180@*****.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable

and thus did Paul Gettle speak on 30 Jul 98 at 12:05:

> To do that sort of thing though would start to get into some serious
> skull-sculpting. It's possible, but from the numbers I researched last
> night, 150 cm^2 of surface area vs. 8 cm^2, and 220 million nasal
> receptors vs 5-6 million, the alterations needed to get a human nasal
> system closer to that of a dog's, IMO would be rather drastic.

Well since an hawks' eye is much smaller than a humans' and they
manage to cram more receptors in that one, I figured it wouldn't be
that much of a problem. Plus the booster is a piece of cyber, so they
could use artificial receptors that are more sensitive than anything
else. Now if there's an equivalent bioware booster, I would imagine
that they would replace your mucus membranes with dog/wolf tissue.
That would still leave the space problem, but hell, who needs all
that brain tissue anyway :). I don't think you want to be as good as
a dog, since dogs haven't been conditioned to consider natural body
odour as stinking, and neither do they have that problem with most
other items.

> >And if that doesn't help, make them more sensitive to nasal
> >disorders. I've got a fairly good sense of smell, as in I can
> >recognize people by smell, know if they've been in the house, etc.
>
> This was what I was talking about earlier, about having a point of
> reference. Most of us just don't have noses that sensitive, so it's
> harder for us to get a feel for these rules. One thing I want to ask
> you, while you can recognize people by smell, could you describe a
> particular person's scent? Human vocabulary seems to have fairly large
> gaps in the category of descriptive scent language, which would
> severely limit someone who had just gotten an Olfactory Booster, and
> wanted to learn some of these neat Sniffer tricks.

Well I can imagine training to be a self-tutor thing, since there's
no words to describe scents sufficiently. Just how many words are
there to describe a natural body odour, ten, twenty? And yet
every one of the five billion people have a recognizable body
scent (I assume that everyone has a different scent, I don't know for
use, neither do I think anyone ever researched this).

Only if there's elements like a cigarette's smell you can say she
smells like [insert brand here], but to describe the difference
between her and someone else who smokes the same brand in words is
impossible. Of course if you have a chem analyzer you could churn out
lists of elements and classify the person based on those, which
should make it a lot easier on the user.

BTW, I would give any runner a penalty on a scent related test,
simply to balance things out. Our primary sense is vision and it
always will be, and hearing coming in second. Any tests made against
the other senses should not be made with the whole intelligence
attribute, simply because we don't use them as much.

> I'll defer to the nose that knows for this one. However, I'm a bit
> inclined to view an enhanced sense of smell not so much as one big
> knob that turns up the 'volume' on every scent in the room the same
> amount, but more like an equalizer board that lets you subconciously
> focus your attention on a particular scent, perciving that one at a
> higher intensity while momentarily tuning out the others.

I don't know, I always figured that it would be like picking out one
conversation in the same group. I.e. even if your hearing is
brilliant, it's still more a matter of concentration / training than
of pure ability.

> BTW, thanks for the handkiss idea, that's pure genius.

Well it seemed a bit more elegant than the crotch sniffing that dogs
prefer, although it's less effective :).

[tailored pheromones]
> would have an 'enhanced' effect on those with 'enhanced' noses.
> (Perhaps another +1 or +2 dice?) Luckily for the ones with the
> Olfactory Booster cyberware, they can turn their nose 'off' completely
> in that sort of situation.

Good point, I agree completely. The tracker might even get excited by
the scent and find it harder to concentrate on not howling at the
moon or trying desperately to get that person's attention.

> MBW puts the brain in a constant state of epileptic siezure, and
> epileptic siezure supposedly makes the body put out a very distinctive
> smell to those who have good noses. There are programs today to train
> asistance dogs for placement with epileptics, because it's been found
> that a well trained dog can give up to 30 minutes advance warning for
> an impending siezure. I'd imagine that anyone with MBW, even at the
> low levels, would absolutely reek of siezure smell.

Heh, why do I suddenly get this image of a big St. Bernard running up
to a sammie in the middle of a firefight? :). But you're completely
right, and it's not just seizures which give a distinctive scent, a
lot of diseases and medication do. So maybe the Sam has a distinctive
scent of "wrongness" around him after all with all that stuff in him
body. Good point.

> <<snip: the smell of magic>>
> I'll concede that fetishes made from plain materials wouldn't smell
> much different, and fetishes made from either the metal or mineral
> arcana wouldn't have a scent either. I was mostly thinking of fetishes
> made from floral arcana, because those are specific herbs and plant
> materials harvested at certain times, and would have specific, and
> therefore recognizeable scents. One way to limit the efectiveness of
> this is to only let Sniffers who have the Enchanting skill pull this
> stunt.

Or magical theory, and as ever you got to know what it is you smell.
I can't image the average sammie getting out much in the open and
being able to smell fresh lavender for example.

> <<snip: some other stuff>>

> This is also cool because it brings the gas spectrometer cyberware
> into play, which I didn't really touch upon in my initial post,
> because it was getting rather verbose. I figure I'll have to get
> around to my theories on gas spectrometer stunts in another post. :)

I'm looking forward to that one, and already have some ideas
hatching.
BTW, anyone who wants to read a really cool novel centered around
smell try: The Perfume by Patrick Süskind. The main character has an
excellent sense of smell.




Karina & Martin Steffens
chimerae@***.ie
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 10:50:29 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <chimerae@***.iol.ie>
From: Martin Steffens <chimerae@***.IE>
Subject: Re: Scent of a Woman
In-Reply-To: <53ce4595.35c0cc24@***.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

and thus did Nexx Many-Scars speak on 30 Jul 98 at 15:40:

> > Valid points. A mage might be able to get out of the all fours bit,
> > depending on how the detection spell used was designed, but for
> > Sniffers that are actually using their nose, they'd better put it to
> > the grindstone.

> Unless, of course, you're used to walking on 4 legs... like most shifters
> would be.

I don't think many shifters walk around in their beast shape through
the city, unless you're a dachshund or poodle shifter. And since
runners tend to be urban animals, it would also limit their ability
to go down on all fours and look extremely weird.

Karina & Martin Steffens
chimerae@***.ie
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 10:50:29 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <chimerae@***.iol.ie>
From: Martin Steffens <chimerae@***.IE>
Subject: Re: Scent of a Woman
In-Reply-To: <AFFFCF221D65D111923800805FA7E86D50121E@***********>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

and thus did bryan.covington@****.COM speak on 30 Jul 98 at 10:59:


> For reference, I saw a special (Medical Detectives I
> believe) on finding a missing girl. They had a bloodhound with them
> (granted one of the better sniffers) and were tracking this girl through
> town.
[snip super sniffer story]
> Anyway THAT's how strong some dog's noses are. I imagine
> this took a good bit of training as well as the natural abilities, but
> that's still pretty damn impressive.

I once watched Coppers on Sky One (heck I was bored) with a special
with a police sniffer dog. His results were rather disappointing; he
couldn't track a thief out of a backyard, lost trail a couple of
times, etc. etc. In the end of the show I don't think he found
anything worthwhile. Note that this was a trained dog, and he might
just have had a bad day or so, but results tend to vary a lot it
seems.


Karina & Martin Steffens
chimerae@***.ie
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 12:45:45 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Movie
In-Reply-To: <199807311835.UAA08548@*****.xs4all.nl> from "Gurth" at Jul
31,
98 08:36:41 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did Gurth hastily scribble thusly...
|
|Eric M. Farmer said on 11:08/31 Jul 98,...
|
|> Patrick Stewart would make a better corp man. Maybe a Johnson?
|
|Yeah, then he can say "Make it so" when the runners he hired
|leave to do the job :)

But then, if he was a decker, he'd be able to have a program called Warp,
and thus, he'd be able to say "Warp 5! ENGAGE!" legitimately....

:)

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 12:54:43 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: IR signature damping (was Re: Camo and Ruthenium
In-Reply-To: <e2ca2055.35c24e18@***.com> from "Mike Bobroff" at Jul 31,
98 07:07:02 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did Mike Bobroff hastily scribble thusly...
|> I'd be carefull with Angel if I were you.
|> Try to keep those two apart...
|
|Angel is an Awakened Anaconda, roughly 30 feet long. Currently he has taken
|on the attitude of being the Enforcer between Kray (Leader), Buffy (Luring
|Device), Kenny (Drone with a Big Gun), and Shamantyr (Raven Spirit purveyor of
|Food). Together they made up a rather interesting additional security for an
|apartment complex that Binder still has an apartment in.

I think you missed the smilie.
I was referring to BtVS, especially the episode where Spike (now wheelchair
bound) makes a comeback....
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 12:55:42 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Scent of a Woman
In-Reply-To: <MPOUgUAtaQw1Ewtx@*******.demon.co.uk> from "Avenger" at Jul
31,
98 00:50:05 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did Avenger hastily scribble thusly...
|Good point. And while thinking about that. If canine noses are so
|sensitive - why do they /have/ to shove it up another dog's butt to get
|a scent?

Tradition and good dog etiquette?
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 13:04:25 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Anime & Hentai Suggestions WAS: FASA in the movies
In-Reply-To: <35C22C87.7060@**********.com> from "Bai Shen" at Jul 31,
98 04:43:54 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Bai Shen hastily scribble thusly...
|
|> > Try Golgo 13 (The Professional). I haven't watched it, but it has SR plot
|> > elements (wetwork...).
|> Try Cybercity Oedo 808 - quite shadowrun-ny.
|
|What's it about? I haven't even heard of it before.

IIRC that's the one where a few criminals with 1000 year sentences get hired
to work for the police in dealing with suicidal cases.

Ever time the succeed, a few more years get knocked off their sentences.

Oh, and of course, they all have their own speciallist abilities, like one's
a super-hacker, one's cybered up, etc....

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 13:09:37 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Movie
In-Reply-To: <35C2BD21.2E63@*********.com> from "Jett" at Aug 1, 98
03:00:49 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Jett hastily scribble thusly...
|Yep, got me on that one, but I DO like Donald Sutherland as well. As an
|aging mage, I would think, a bit a la Buffy the Vampire Slayer (the
|movie, not the series). Kiefer as the street doc. :)

Hmmm....
How about Giles (from Buffy) as a bookish mage type blokey who everyone
always underestimates?
:)
Or is that steriotyping...
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 09:18:29 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Anime & Hentai Suggestions
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Once upon a time, Lady Jestyr wrote;

>Eight weeks, but that's irrelevant. Urotsukidoji rocks. :)
>
>(All my male friends were totally grossed out and couldn't keep
>watching... I was sitting there going 'yeah, this is cool'... my friends
>have never looked at me the same since.)

We used to call my ex-friend the Overfiend since we joked about it
being his fantasy. After he saw it he liked the nickname which we then
changed to Underfiend. He wasn't happy then. B>]#

>Lady Jestyr
>Tentacle Porn, Tentacle Porn!
> - It's not pretty being easy -
Stop that! I shouldn't be laughing this early in the morning.
Besides it ruins my somber disposition. B>]#

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

"If I was born in the 17th century, I wouldn't have to turtle wax the
van."
-Azreal Abyss, Goth Talk (SNL)

I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 09:22:49 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
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In a message dated 7/31/98 7:11:39 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
efarmer@********.CC.EDU writes:

> > For some people worried about power, the suit could have Suncell Power
> added
> > on, or perhaps a connecter cord to a Suncell Power net of sorts.
>
>
> The problem with a solar cell is that they reflect light, making an easy,
> flashing target.

You can always spend more cred so that it does not shine in return ... or ...
the Suncell is of the covered sort which means that it does not generate as
many PF per hour as it could.

The only other problem that Suncell could have is that it can be detected by a
very sensitive MAD (Magnetic Anomaly Detector) ... am I right in saying this?

-Herc
------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 09:25:27 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Movie
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 7/31/98 8:24:21 PM US Eastern Standard Time, Dhl9@***.COM
writes:

> > Speaking of dragons...GOTTA have Sean Connery as either the voice of
> > Dunkelzahn or an aging mage. Come on, Sean Connery rules!
> >
>
> James Earl Jones has to be a dragon. Maybe Sirrug the Destroyer.

Nope, sorry on this one .. typecasting some here ... the voice of a cyber-
zombie ... perhaps Burn-out ?!?

> One name that hasn't come up. Where is Dennis Rodman in the movie? Dennis
is
> already in the 6th world. Maybe we have Dennis just play Dennis.

Who ?!? Oh, yeah ... some wannabe from the twentieth that was a one
dimensional sports wonder.

-Herc
------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 06:41:22 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: James dillane <lakashim@*******.COM>
Subject: Rigger 2 Fuel Economy
Content-Type: text/plain

Hello again,

The numbers for jet aircraft fuel economy seem wrong. I know nothing of
real life (circa 1998) vehicle ranges and fuell capacities, but the ones
in Rigger 2 seem short.

Take the Lear-Cessna Platinum II vs the LAV-103 Striker Light Tank (page
160 R2). The Lear can carry 1500 ltrs of jet fuel, with an economy of .5
km/ltr. That gives it as total range of 750kms. The Striker carries 800
ltrs of diesel and has an economy of 2 km/ltr. That makes the tanks
range of 1600km. I always thought that a Lear jet would be able to
travel further than any tank, light or other wise.

As i said earlier, I don't have much real world experience with vehicles
of these types. Maybe it's the diesel fuel vs the jet fuel? But it comes
up again and again with jet or thrusted based vehicles. The GMC Banshee
stood out in my mind as another strange example. 7500 ltrs at .05
km/ltr? It could only 375 klicks before re-fuelling? Is that right? You
couldn't travel from Los Angeles to San Fransisco on one tank of gas? It
just doesn't feel right. If I was smuggling my self from New Orleans to
Mexico City via T-Bird, it would costs thousands in AV-fuel alone.

Do I have the right perspective on this or do the numbers bear out? Can
a lear jet only go 750 kms. According to the book, it could only fly for
One hour and 15 min at top speed before needing to land and re-fuel. Is
that right?

Thanks again.

"Sipping from the Spring of Immortality is only the Beginning..." Psalm
of Ananda


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 09:23:43 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: SR3 Doubts
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>> Me and my big damn mouth....
>
>(hands you the Shoes of Dunkelzah...which can be yours, for only
>19.95 a month...;)

Hey, they fit.... Scary, neh?

>> Okay, I'll add it to my plate and see what I can come up with. I hope
>> you're not on a timetable...I've got a lot going on at the moment.
>
>Me!!!???!!! Timetable?!? What on earth is that?!?

<much about your life snipped...your life looks a lot like mine>

>...I have no idea what a "Time Table" would even look like :P

I feel much better already. As for what they look like...you know that flat
thing in the living room, in front of the couch? That's not it.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 09:28:31 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: That Mojo Attitude (was Re: Cybergeezers)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>And as for encountering it, oh yeah, people encounter it all over
>the place. Like the mentioning of the "bullet" that failed to hit
>Lugh Surehand in TT.

Or the bullet that likewise failed to hit Joe Two Feathers in UNDERGROUND, a
bullet fired from something like *two feet away.*

>Or all those people that are in DC that are around the "rupture".

Okay, this brings up a couple of questions on my part. The manastorm in DC
opened up in 2057, when Dunkelzahn was assassinated. In 2060, is it still
there?

And has the Scott Commission found anything?

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 10:05:55 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Eric M. Farmer" <efarmer@********.CC.EDU>
Subject: Re: FASA in the movies
In-Reply-To: <35C22CD2.28AA@**********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> > There's also a 10-minute short anime called 'Running Man' - VERY VERY
> > good for understanding riggers...

Also, check out "Riding Bean". Dumb name, cool anime, and even better
car.

Eric Farmer
efarmer@********.cc.edu
http://www.cc.edu/~efarmer/
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 11:50:38 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: (OT) Re: IR signature damping (was Re: Camo and Ruthenium
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In a message dated 8/1/1998 6:54:59 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK writes:

>
> I think you missed the smilie.
> I was referring to BtVS, especially the episode where Spike (now wheelchair
> bound) makes a comeback....
>
DAMN! I knew I was going to miss this one.

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 08:54:25 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: James dillane <lakashim@*******.COM>
Subject: OT "Mystic Knights Of Tri Na Nog"
Content-Type: text/plain

Fox is running a television show this fall called "Mystic Knights of Tir
Na Nog". Four intrepid young knights of irish decent, (3 men one woman,
3 white, 1 black) fight a evil sorceress trying to rule the mystic
islands.

Nothing to do with Shadow Run, but if relatively obscure UK Faerie tales
can be made into (corporate whore version) television show, anything
could happen.

Ciao

"Sipping from the Spring of Immortality is only the Beginning..." Psalm
of Ananda


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 12:00:03 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: That Mojo Attitude (was Re: Cybergeezers)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 8/1/1998 9:30:38 AM US Eastern Standard Time, remo@***.NET
writes:

> Okay, this brings up a couple of questions on my part. The manastorm in DC
> opened up in 2057, when Dunkelzahn was assassinated. In 2060, is it still
> there?
>
> And has the Scott Commission found anything?
>
In -our- games, the rift is still there, though it has been changed somewhat
over time. Also, because of interposing story lines here, we altered it
somewhat so that the rift happened a bit later...or did we??? Damn, all of
the sudden, this calendar hopping is catching up to me. Not enough sleep..

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 17:18:44 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: (OT) Re: IR signature damping (was Re: Camo and Ruthenium
In-Reply-To: <24dee6fc.35c33950@***.com> from "K is the Symbol" at Aug 1,
98 11:50:38 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
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And verily, did K is the Symbol hastily scribble thusly...
|
|In a message dated 8/1/1998 6:54:59 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
|u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK writes:
|
|>
|> I think you missed the smilie.
|> I was referring to BtVS, especially the episode where Spike (now wheelchair
|> bound) makes a comeback....
|>
|DAMN! I knew I was going to miss this one.

Don't tell me you missed that story...PLEASE!
It was a two parter.

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

S
P
A
C
E










Angel lost his soul and turned into his old, evil nasty vampire self again.
(Angellous is back, in other words)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 09:38:39 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Movie
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>

> And verily, did Gurth hastily scribble thusly...
> |
> |Eric M. Farmer said on 11:08/31 Jul 98,...
> |
> |> Patrick Stewart would make a better corp man. Maybe a Johnson?
> |
> |Yeah, then he can say "Make it so" when the runners he hired
> |leave to do the job :)
>
> But then, if he was a decker, he'd be able to have a program called Warp,
> and thus, he'd be able to say "Warp 5! ENGAGE!" legitimately....
>
> :)

Well what about a mage with an ally spirit that he can call "Number One."

;)

Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 09:39:46 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Movie
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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> From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>

> And verily, did Jett hastily scribble thusly...
> |Yep, got me on that one, but I DO like Donald Sutherland as well. As an
> |aging mage, I would think, a bit a la Buffy the Vampire Slayer (the
> |movie, not the series). Kiefer as the street doc. :)
>
> Hmmm....
> How about Giles (from Buffy) as a bookish mage type blokey who everyone
> always underestimates?
> :)
> Or is that steriotyping...

Hell yes it's stereotyping, but that doesn't make it a bad idea :)


Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 11:23:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Skills
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> > How would ya'll handle the skills of singing, painting, and sculpting?
> > I was thinking of a general skill art, with concentrations in the above.
> Umm, Singing is covered in Shadowbeat ... and would be considered a base
> skill. A particular style of singing (ie Rap, Opera, Humming, etc) would be a
> Concentration. Specializations would either be in a single song (one hit
> wonders ?!?) or even a particular geographic area (caribbean reggae, which
> IIRC is an early predecessor of Rap ?!?).

Welp, I managed to pick up Shadowbeat last night an' found the stuff
about singin'. However, I'm still not sure what to do about painting
and sculpting. Any ideas, ya'll?
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 11:33:05 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: SR/Palladium
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> > Outta curiousity, who else here is a SR/Palladium fan?
> I take it you noticed myself and Matt, Bai Shen? Personally, though, if I
> could find non-Palladium games at school, I'd sell every single Palladium Book
> I own... the system is starting to annoy me.

Well, you an' a comment 'bout Nightspawn.-grin-
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 11:56:04 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: SR3 Doubts
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> Maybe I'm doing FASA a disservice, but given the level of
> dissatisfaction evidenced by other listmembers at FASA's treatment of
> their own home areas, plus the general misconceptions most Americans
> seem to have about Australia (no, we *don't* have kangaroos hopping down
> the main street) I really don't have very high hopes. :(

Ya'll don't?-grin-
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 12:09:58 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Scent of a Woman
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> One question though: I seem to remember learning at one point that
> snakes get part of their sense of smell by flicking their tongue out
> and waving it around, and insects smell through their antenae,
> correct? Maybe it's a case of if you can't enclose the scent membrane
> around a volume of air, then wave the scent membrane through the
> volume of air.
> If that is the case, it might make for some interesting cyberware. :)

IIRC, a snakes tongue functions more like the spectrograph(I think) than
an actual sense of smell. What they do is collect minute particles on
their tongue by flicking it out. Then they touch their tongue to a
small organ located on the roof of their mouth.
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 14:32:07 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Scent of a Woman
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 8/1/1998 12:19:30 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
baishen@**********.COM writes:

> IIRC, a snakes tongue functions more like the spectrograph(I think) than
> an actual sense of smell. What they do is collect minute particles on
> their tongue by flicking it out. Then they touch their tongue to a
> small organ located on the roof of their mouth.

which, in all honesty, is the same function as our own. However, snakes also
have thermoreceptors and a host of other little "things" associated with their
tongues/nasal/mouth area. Chemoreceptivity is part of the what makes one more
or less sensitive to various "scents" and "flavors".

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 14:00:25 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Waffelmaisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Scent
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> Re: Scent of a Woman (Paul Gettle , Fri 10:59)

> > Some animals with excellent smell have rather small skulls,
> so I don't
> >think good smell REQUIRES a lot of volume. Snakes, in particular,
> and
> >some insects (at least, as far as particular chemicals go), ave very
> >sensitve smell and small scent organs. I'm sure cyber could
> >imitatethose effects, operating on a non-mamilian paradigm.
>
> I really do need to get some hard numbers for animals other than dogs;
> though it took a night of web searching to find what numbers I did.

I know the sensitivity record holder is for a male (Hawk?) moth traking
a certain female pherome.


> One question though: I seem to remember learning at one point that
> snakes get part of their sense of smell by flicking their tongue out
> and waving it around, and insects smell through their antenae,
> correct? Maybe it's a case of if you can't enclose the scent membrane
> around a volume of air, then wave the scent membrane through the
> volume of air.
>

The tounge flicks out, and molecules adhere to it. It is then brought
into themouth and pressed against scent organs. Antnae do have scent
capabilites, and I'm sure the fact they are "open" aids sensativity.
Moth antenae are almost a fractal structure, boosting surface area. As
for technology, theres no reason you couln't line some bodys nasal
pasage with "cyber-antenae".

> If that is the case, it might make for some interesting cyberware. :)
>

A cool feature of antenae and snake tounges is they are somewhat
DIRECTIONAL- because they are "split" structures, one side will recive a
higher molecualr concentration than the other, and give some direction
cues. This would likely be lost with purely internal scent organs like
the above idea, so some structuraly imitative mods might indeed be a
nice idea.

Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 14:00:31 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Waffelmaisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Cyber Olympics?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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>
> Re: Cyber Olympics? (Dhl9@***.COM, Fri 11:08)
>
> In a message dated 98-07-31 05:26:54 EDT, you write:
>
> > Ah. As a mechanic, that makes some sense, but has NOTHING to do
> > with
> > the skillwires/soft. Many runners have stats that put pro atheletes to
> > SHAME- would you REDUCE thier tns?
> > A good example of these factors would be if a very fit person and a
> > very weak, frail one both slotted the same "boxing" soft and fought
each
> > other. Thier SKILL would be identical, as would thier combat test
> > TN's.
>
> I think I am starting to see a pattern to our discussion. You are debating the
> technical aspect of what the skillsoft is capable of and I am thinking more
> along the lines of practicality. I will conceed the skillsoft should be able
> to replicate exactly what it was intended to replicate but when it is used by
> a person who can't take full advantage of that skillsoft, I will raise target
> numbers. If you were in my e-mail game and had a human or elven character of
> say, 6-3 or better and was a good athlete, I would probably not raise the TN
> if he/she wanted to use the skillsoft to try and replicate the legendary slam
> dunk that Jordan executed in the NBA All-Star game that earned him the
> nickname "Air", but your dwarven rigger would have a higher target number.

I'm not actually debating your use of GM set TN's for such general
actions. I'd just use a diferent mechanic; in this case, something like
roll the skill against the "normal" TN, and for each succes you clear X
cm from the ground, X being some fraction of the characters hight, or
multiple of quickness, or whatever. Thus, the roll would be the same,
but the result less impressive if your natural potential was low.
Actually, my method would make such dunks IMPOSSIBLE for some (not
enough dice toget enough succeses), where as yours lets a lucky "rule of
6-6-6" roll slip by, a general feature of "1 succes" TN tests. Its just
a small play style thing, not at all a technical issue about the wares.

Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 14:00:40 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Waffelmaisters <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Re: Camo and Ruthenium (bryan.covington@****.COM, Fri 13:55)
>
> > > Here's a scary thought. This would be hideously
> > >expensive but would be approaching the ultimate in camo. An RP
> > ghillie
> > >suit. Bear with me here.
> >
> > Hmmm...problematic in that they are all still drawing from the same
> > set of cameras.

Actually, you could use strips of something cheaper thnRP that just
switchedbetween afewcolors(andmaybestayedthat way)- something alongthe
lines of"hypercolor"clothing, orthe stuf the Rashersuits in "SnowcrasH'
used to go from neon to matte black. Then a few imagers would just
provide "color sample"-the image would be unimportant, only the color
mix of nearby grounmd features. The suit would then aproximate those.

> > strip display the correct image. If that could be done, well, the
> > inmprovement in texture would be probably a camouflage improvement,
> > but
> > part of what makes ghillie suits so good is their texture. Sure you
> > can
> > match colors, but can you match the roughness of a ghillie suit? The
> > fact
> > that there are almost always stray threads and fabric sticking
> > everywhich
> > way, which further disrupts the human outline?
> >
> Texture would have to be a trade off. But it wouldn't matter
> nearly as much as it does now as the camo pattern on each strip would
> perfectly match the surroundings.

I think texture is pretty important- slick plastic reflects light in
very difrent ways than dirt and brush. A painting made with half matte
paint and half glossy tends to look quite "wrong". You might have the
same problem withRP in general. An advantage of just making a suit with
simple color changing material is it might have a structure more like a
normal suit.

A similar idea would be nice for cammo- say you use dyes that change
color when exposed to a particular enzyme. To change your cammo, all
you have to do is toss some powder in with the laundry when you wash
your BDU's. Like changing the pallet on a color image. I'm not sure
cammo patterns are universally aplicable, but they could be developed
with this in mind.


Mongoose

P.S.- bryan, your attitude is overiding the list ettiqutte. Please
check your ego field for automatic "dink" settings.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 14:24:59 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Bell <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: SR3 Doubts
In-Reply-To: <1C147A1DD8@**.opp.psu.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 03:03 PM 7/31/98 EST, Brett Borger wrote:
# > If only we could upload Bull's brain to the net. Then everyone could
# > download it! :-)
# >
#
# Cool! Then my 1200 baud modem could be used again.
# (It's a joke about download size....nevermind.)

my 75 baud acoustic coupler could handle it too....

--
/- justin@************.com ---------------- justin@******.net -\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 14:23:43 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Bell <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: SR3 Doubts -Reply
In-Reply-To: <s5c1b17b.020@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 11:55 AM 7/31/98 -0400, James Rocco wrote:
# > ...the general misconceptions most Americans seem to have about
# > Australia (no, we *don't* have kangaroos hopping down the main
# > street)....
#
# The general misconceptions most of the world seems to have about
# Americans is that we're ignorant and don't care to learn that there aren't
# kangaroos hopping down the middle of Main Street, Australia. In truth,
# we happen to know that Main Street is Wallaby turf and has been since
# they took it from the Funnel Web gang in '93.

unfortunately, MOST americans I have met ARE ignorant and dont care to
learn about anything but them selves.

and I live in the IS so there!
--
/- justin@************.com ---------------- justin@******.net -\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 17:08:30 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Scent of a Woman
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-01 05:54:19 EDT, you write:

> > Anyway THAT's how strong some dog's noses are. I imagine
> > this took a good bit of training as well as the natural abilities, but
> > that's still pretty damn impressive.
>
> I once watched Coppers on Sky One (heck I was bored) with a special
> with a police sniffer dog. His results were rather disappointing; he
> couldn't track a thief out of a backyard, lost trail a couple of
> times, etc. etc. In the end of the show I don't think he found
> anything worthwhile. Note that this was a trained dog, and he might
> just have had a bad day or so, but results tend to vary a lot it
> seems.

There are two kinds of tracking by scent, actually. One is ground based
tracking, where the dog's nose is to the ground. While this only has a
success rate of about 30%, the scents last much longer and are more difficult
to confuse. Air scent tracking, on the other hand, has an 80% success ratio,
but is more difficult to train for (most of the "standard" tracking dogs are
ill-suited, physiologically to learn this style), and the scents don't last as
long. So how well he was doing could really depend on what type he was using,
as well as the other factors most others have mentioned.

Nexx
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 17:14:45 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Scent of a Woman
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-01 07:55:54 EDT, you write:

> And verily, did Avenger hastily scribble thusly...
> |Good point. And while thinking about that. If canine noses are so
> |sensitive - why do they /have/ to shove it up another dog's butt to get
> |a scent?
>
> Tradition and good dog etiquette?

Sort of. Actually, its a admission of, I believe, being submission. If a dog
is superior to another dog, it will present its rear to be smelled, while the
inferior dog (or wolf, who most of this information is based on) will withdraw
his own. Two dogs that know each other well (or your own pets, once they
become comfortable with your family), will smell the head and neck region,
which is reminescent of the way a pup begs its parent to regurgitate food.

Nexx
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 17:21:34 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Movie
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-01 12:45:43 EDT, you write:

> > |> Patrick Stewart would make a better corp man. Maybe a Johnson?
> > |
> > |Yeah, then he can say "Make it so" when the runners he hired
> > |leave to do the job :)
> >
> > But then, if he was a decker, he'd be able to have a program called Warp,
> > and thus, he'd be able to say "Warp 5! ENGAGE!" legitimately....
> >
> > :)
>
> Well what about a mage with an ally spirit that he can call "Number One."


Why don't we just get Zucker, Abrams, and Zucker (of Naked Gun fame) to
produce it while we're at it.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 17:23:20 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: SR/Palladium
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 98-08-01 13:18:22 EDT, you write:

> > > Outta curiousity, who else here is a SR/Palladium fan?
> > I take it you noticed myself and Matt, Bai Shen? Personally, though, if
I
> > could find non-Palladium games at school, I'd sell every single Palladium
> Book
> > I own... the system is starting to annoy me.
>
> Well, you an' a comment 'bout Nightspawn.-grin-

No, no, no, Bai Shen, we can't make his majesty Todd McFarlane mad, can we?
Its NightBANE.

Sorry, that was one of the stupider developments in my hatred of Todd
McFarlane.

Nexx
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 22:25:45 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Movie
In-Reply-To: <4dbda05c.35c386df@***.com> from "Nexx Many-Scars" at Aug 1,
98 05:21:34 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Nexx Many-Scars hastily scribble thusly...
|Why don't we just get Zucker, Abrams, and Zucker (of Naked Gun fame) to
|produce it while we're at it.
|

LOL!
YES!
Shadowrn meets Airplane.
OK THEN. Who's Lesley Neilsen going to play?
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 17:28:37 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Movie
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-01 17:26:40 EDT, you write:

> And verily, did Nexx Many-Scars hastily scribble thusly...
> |Why don't we just get Zucker, Abrams, and Zucker (of Naked Gun fame) to
> |produce it while we're at it.
> |
>
> LOL!
> YES!
> Shadowrn meets Airplane.
> OK THEN. Who's Lesley Neilsen going to play?

Actually, I was being sarcastic, but I would cast him in the role of Frank
Drebin, of Police Squad (having undergone a couple trips to the Leonization
tank).

Nexx
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 17:23:49 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: SR3 Doubts
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>SR3
>SR3 GMs Screen (Bigger, better screen. Critters move to a book with
this)
>Milk Run -- Beginning run for New PLayers and GMs alike. teaching
tool.
>Magic In The Shadows -- New Magic Book. Has all the new rules and
compiles
>Grimmy and Awakenings.
>New Seattle -- Seattle 2060
>Corporate Download -- NNot a replacement for Corporate Shadowfiles, but
>what Corp Shadowfiles should have been. All the REAL dirt on the
corps.
>Cannon Companion -- SSC and FoF, plus some new stuff.
>Man and Machine -- Combines Shadowtech and Cybertech, and adds some new
>toys as well.
>


I know Steve Kenson is working on the Magic book, got any ideas about
the rest of these, who they might be assigned to and that?

Tony Rabiola rabiola@**.netcom.com
Fourth and Sixth World Adept
Still working on the Fifth...
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 17:25:33 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: SR3 Doubts
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>If only I could tell EVERYTHING I know :]
>


Just send us all a private Email with the details, Bull...

Tony Rabiola rabiola@**.netcom.com
Fourth and Sixth World Adept
Still working on the Fifth...
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 17:28:53 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: FASA Update
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<sigh>

I don't think FASA has updated the SR webpage since Lou got the boot...

Tony Rabiola rabiola@**.netcom.com
Fourth and Sixth World Adept
Still working on the Fifth...
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 17:36:57 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: SR3 Doubts
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>Oh, and do you really think they'll get it right?
>
>Maybe I'm doing FASA a disservice, but given the level of
>dissatisfaction evidenced by other listmembers at FASA's treatment of
>their own home areas, plus the general misconceptions most Americans
>seem to have about Australia (no, we *don't* have kangaroos hopping
down
>the main street) I really don't have very high hopes. :(
>


Sounds like us here in Omaha, Nebraska; people from back east think we
still have cattle in the streets and hostile native americans camped on
the outskirts of town...

Tony Rabiola rabiola@**.netcom.com
Fourth and Sixth World Adept
Still working on the Fifth...
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 17:39:37 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Skills
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

For art, you could add skills like Painting, Sculpting, Drawing, and
so on. Then use the rules on pages 10 to 13 of Shadowbeat to
judge how good the resulting piece of art is.

Or just be patient and wait until SR3 comes out, since we are no longer
using a skill web, or so it has been foretold...

Tony Rabiola rabiola@**.netcom.com
Fourth and Sixth World Adept
Still working on the Fifth...
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 17:44:06 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Movie
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> How's this one, Toxic Shaman.....Dennis Hopper.
>
> Gary Oldman always makes a gloriously evil villain
also.
>

Jack Nicholson, ever on the edge, in there somewhere...

Tony Rabiola rabiola@**.netcom.com
Fourth and Sixth World Adept
Still working on the Fifth...
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 17:45:24 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Movie
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>>
>> Leonardo DiCaprio as anything that dies spectacularly and preferably
>> early.
>
>I second that. Actually, put him on a bust that gets wasted with
>Keanu Reeves, Steven Segal, and the cast of 90210.
>


Laugh! Seconded on everyone but Segal. VanDamme maybe, but not
Steve...

Tony Rabiola rabiola@**.netcom.com
Fourth and Sixth World Adept
Still working on the Fifth...
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 17:52:28 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: SR3 Doubts
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>Sounds like us here in Omaha, Nebraska; people from back east think we
>still have cattle in the streets and hostile native americans camped on
>the outskirts of town...

Does Jerry Epperson still run Ground Zero Games down in Bellevue? I used to
buy all my stuff there when I was stationed at Offutt AFB lo these many
years ago....

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 19:05:35 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Greg Symons <gsymons@******.TEMPLE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Skills
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

>> > How would ya'll handle the skills of singing, painting, and
sculpting?
>> > I was thinking of a general skill art, with concentrations in
the above.
>> Umm, Singing is covered in Shadowbeat ... and would be considered a
base
>> skill. A particular style of singing (ie Rap, Opera, Humming, etc)
would be a
>> Concentration. Specializations would either be in a single song
(one hit
>> wonders ?!?) or even a particular geographic area (caribbean
reggae, which
>> IIRC is an early predecessor of Rap ?!?).
>
>Welp, I managed to pick up Shadowbeat last night an' found the stuff
>about singin'. However, I'm still not sure what to do about painting
>and sculpting. Any ideas, ya'll?

I don't know about what to do with the successes (I, unfortunately,
have never even _seen_ Shadowbeat:( but here's how I'd break the
skills down for various art forms:

Drawing (general skill)
Medium (pen & ink, charcoal, conte, etc)
Style (Abstract, Expressionist, etc...)

Painting (general skill)
Medium (watercolor, oil, tempera, acrylic)
Style (same as above)

Sculpture (general skill)
Medium (metals, stone, clay)
Style (same as above)

Mixed Media/Installation Art (general skill)*
Mixed Media
Style (same as above)
Installations
Style (same as above)

Crafts (general skill)**
Medium (Fibres, Clay, Wood, etc)
Style (thrown pottery, weaving, etc.)

Theatre (general skill)***
Acting
Technique (Uta Hagen, Alexander, etc.)
Medium (Film, Stage, Musical, Sim, Trideo)
Style (Shakespearean, Classical Greek, post-Modern, etc)
Technical
Stage Management
Lighting Design
Scene Design
Sound Design
Directing
Style (Shakespearean, Classical Greek, post-Modern, etc)
Medium (Film, Stage, Musical, Sim, Trideo)
Dramaturgy (theatre history)
Style (Shakespearean, Classical Greek, post-Modern, etc)
Medium (Film, Stage, Musical, Sim, Trideo)
Performance (single play)

*Mixed Media and Installation art forms are both combinations of
several techniques, which is why they warrant a skill of their own. I
would also rule that at least two other artforms be required to make
use of this skill, as much of the skill itself comes from know what to
use for what (mixed media), or where to put it (installations) as
opposed to how to do it

**Yes, this is a separate category. Ask any art major.

***This is a little more detailed, as it _is_ my chosen art form:) The
reason I put theatre as a general skill is that any _trained_ actor,
director, techie, whatever, is going to have _some_ knowledge in the
other areas, if only enough to do his job (i.e. the stage manager
knows to give the actors plenty of time to warm up, the director
should know something about previous productions, and the actors know
to stay out of the techies' way during Hell Week (or in the case of
most Broadway musicals, Hell Month:)). Even untrained theatre people
will either pick up a little in the other areas or they won't be
around long... people will find them entirely too annoying.

I'm still not sure how to handle trideo, simsense, and film
production, as they have skills that don't fit neatly into the theatre
skill (editing, camerawork, etc.) I also have a problem with some of
the specializations off of Technical theatre, as most of those have
possible concentrations/specializations (e.g.):

Lighting
Design (deciding how to light the stage)
Style
Production (actually putting up and wiring the lights)
Light Hanging/Focussing
Stage Wiring (different from wiring anything like a house:)
Lighting Control Systems (hmmm... that's an interesting
thought... datajack controlled light systems... no missing the cue
because your finger was in your ear:)

But anyway, this post has now taken me almost an hour to write, so I
guess I'll just send it and see what happens.

Greg

*********************************************************************
* *
* \ (__) Greg Symons <gsymons@******.temple.edu> *
* \\(oo) Seanchai/ and Follower of Bri\de *
* /-----\\\/ *
* / | (##) "Hearken closely and you shall hear the *
* * ||----||" sound of cows and bagpipes upon the heath" *
* ^^ ^^ *
*********************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 19:30:36 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Grahamdrew <mnemonic25@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: The Samurai
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> traditional samurai, huh?
>
> You may want to have your player do some research on them before he considers
> trying to play a true traditional smaurai. For instance, if they fail, they
> generally killed themselves rather than live with dishonor and the typical
> smaurai loved who he loved, regardless if it was a man or a woman.
>

Kinda an old post but....

The one AD&D sourcebook I use is called Oriental Adventures, had a bunch
of junk on the Samurai's code of honor and stuff. When one of my
players wanted to do the reincarnated Samurai that was what I pulled
out. Good referance source for any system if your planning on getting
involved in the Japanese Samurai stuff, if you are willing to track it
down.

Hit him over the head with it of course, but it's a good source of
infromation too....
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 17:23:14 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Paul Wynter (Seraph)" <seraph@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Movie
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>>> Leonardo DiCaprio as anything that dies spectacularly and preferably
>>> early.
>>
>>I second that. Actually, put him on a bust that gets wasted with
>>Keanu Reeves, Steven Segal, and the cast of 90210.
>>
>
>
>Laugh! Seconded on everyone but Segal. VanDamme maybe, but not
>Steve...


Definitely Segal...And very,very,very definitely 90210!
Not sure why everyone hates DiCaprio...
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 20:55:18 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: SR3 Doubts
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 05:25 PM 8/1/98 -0500, rabiola wrote these timeless words:
>>If only I could tell EVERYTHING I know :]
>>
>
>Just send us all a private Email with the details, Bull...
>
<laugh>

Hey, IIRC I think you know almost as much as I do, Tony :] Behave yourself :]

Bull
--
Bull -- The Best Ork Decker You Never Met
chaos@*****.com ===== bull22@***********.com
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604

=======================================================
= =
= Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any Fours? =
= =
=======================================================

"We come from Stucco Village, where we bake bread
and play tether ball all day!"
-- A really weird scene from Trinity, the 3 AM version
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 20:55:20 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Update
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 05:28 PM 8/1/98 -0500, rabiola wrote these timeless words:
><sigh>
>
>I don't think FASA has updated the SR webpage since Lou got the boot...
>
Nope :(

They have their web designers working on it, but outside of the stuff
that's already up, don;t expect anything to be up until the whole page is
done being redesigned and after Gen Con sometime, after all kinds of
goodies have been released and/or revealed :]

Bull
--
Bull -- The Best Ork Decker You Never Met
chaos@*****.com ===== bull22@***********.com
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604

=======================================================
= =
= Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any Fours? =
= =
=======================================================

"We come from Stucco Village, where we bake bread
and play tether ball all day!"
-- A really weird scene from Trinity, the 3 AM version
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 20:55:15 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: SR3 Doubts
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 05:23 PM 8/1/98 -0500, rabiola wrote these timeless words:

>I know Steve Kenson is working on the Magic book, got any ideas about
>the rest of these, who they might be assigned to and that?
>
AFAIK, since it's mostly going to be a compilation of earlier material,
Mike's putting them together himself, with minor contributions and material
being added in by various freelancers (most likely).

Mike is writing Milk Run, and Kenson is doing New Seattle. Corp Download
will be Multi-Author and as of Origins there was no set authors yet.

Bull
--
Bull -- The Best Ork Decker You Never Met
chaos@*****.com ===== bull22@***********.com
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604

=======================================================
= =
= Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any Fours? =
= =
=======================================================

"We come from Stucco Village, where we bake bread
and play tether ball all day!"
-- A really weird scene from Trinity, the 3 AM version
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 20:20:17 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Thieving
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Okay, guys, another silly rules question. Trying to work up an NPC who's a
second-story man and a pickpocket. Climbing rules and skills I can figure
out, and he's got stealth, but how would you handle something like picking a
lock or lifting someone's credstick? And please don't refer me to
SHADOWBEAT...I've already looked. <g>

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 22:50:12 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Chartier <mefron@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Thieving
In-Reply-To: <006101bdbdb4$01a81ec0$9aa910cf@********>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 08:20 PM 8/1/98 -0500, Patrick wrote:
>Okay, guys, another silly rules question. Trying to work up an NPC who's a
>second-story man and a pickpocket. Climbing rules and skills I can figure
>out, and he's got stealth, but how would you handle something like picking a
>lock or lifting someone's credstick? And please don't refer me to
>SHADOWBEAT...I've already looked. <g>

You'll need new skills: Lockpicking(combination, key, window) and
Prestidigitation(sleight of hand, picking pockets). The rest is easy.

-Mike
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 20:31:40 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Pantherr <pantherr@*****.NET>
Organization: IRCats.Org
Subject: Re: Thieving
In-Reply-To: <006101bdbdb4$01a81ec0$9aa910cf@********>
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> Okay, guys, another silly rules question. Trying to work up an NPC who's
> a second-story man and a pickpocket. Climbing rules and skills I can
> figure out, and he's got stealth, but how would you handle something like
> picking a lock or lifting someone's credstick? And please don't refer me
> to SHADOWBEAT...I've already looked. <g>

Hold up. The referrals to Shadowbeat were for a question that
involved rules it *covered*. It's NOT a general thing to refer people
to a certain sourcebook 'just because'. :P

And Climbing is, of course, a concentration of Athletics. <g>

As for picking pockets? I'd go with a quickness roll on the part of
the picker vs a perception roll on the part of the victim. Maybe
even allow picking pockets as a specialization of the Stealth skill.

Pantherr


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--
A lifetime spent repressing our animal natures and instincts is a lifetime wasted
--
Furry Code v1.0a
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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 18:01:19 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Pantherr <pantherr@*****.NET>
Organization: IRCats.Org
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Movie
In-Reply-To: <01bdbd9d$e38fa900$32f81fcc@*******>
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> Jack Nicholson, ever on the edge, in there somewhere...

Fighting the call of the Bugs ;)

How about Jack Palance as the rigger?

Pantherr

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--
A lifetime spent repressing our animal natures and instincts is a lifetime wasted
--
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h4F0698F mEa1@* w6A p7E r7S
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 21:57:59 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Thieving
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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>>...how would you handle something like picking a
>>lock or lifting someone's credstick?
>
>You'll need new skills: Lockpicking(combination, key, window) and
>Prestidigitation(sleight of hand, picking pockets). The rest is easy.

I kind of figured I'd have to homebrew a couple of my own; I was hoping I'd
missed something. Yet another thing to ass to my list of things to do....

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 22:43:37 -0400
Reply-To: java@**********.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: java <java@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Thieving
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Thieving
> Date: Saturday, August 01, 1998 9:20 PM
>
> Okay, guys, another silly rules question. Trying to work up an NPC who's
a
> second-story man and a pickpocket. Climbing rules and skills I can
figure
> out, and he's got stealth, but how would you handle something like
picking a
> lock or lifting someone's credstick? And please don't refer me to
> SHADOWBEAT...I've already looked. <g>
>
For the lockpicking I would suggest electronics and a special skill
Lockpicking for the more archaic locks
For the pickpocketing Athletics would work

"Irony, It's like goldy or silvery, only different"
Blackadder
Java@**********.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 22:04:41 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Thieving
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>> And please don't refer me to SHADOWBEAT...I've already looked. <g>
>
>Hold up. The referrals to Shadowbeat were for a question that
>involved rules it *covered*. It's NOT a general thing to refer
>people to a certain sourcebook 'just because'. :P

Pantherr, I did a fair amount of that referring. 'Twere a joke. Truly.

Besides, it seemed to be on its way to becoming some kind of panacaea, and I
was trying to ward that one off.

>And Climbing is, of course, a concentration of Athletics. <g>

Like I said, I can figure that one out.

>As for picking pockets? I'd go with a quickness roll on the part of
>the picker vs a perception roll on the part of the victim. Maybe
>even allow picking pockets as a specialization of the Stealth skill.

Hmmm. I'd considered the Quickness roll, but hadn't thought of having theft
as a concentration off Stealth. Interesting. Spaceba.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 00:30:25 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Grahamdrew <mnemonic25@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Out of Print Books (was Re: K's Patience is Almost Gone)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I know of a place that has a bunch of OOP sourcebooks (got Neo
Anrchist's guide to Real life and Corp Sec there) and if anyone has a
decent (I don't care if it's mint if it's got all the pages...) copy of
Shadowbeat I can send them a lit of what's there... Or if they just want
cash.....

Grahamdrew, who REALLY wants Shadowbeat
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 01:21:01 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Rigger 2 Fuel Economy
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In a message dated 8/1/98 8:42:35 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
lakashim@*******.COM writes:

> The numbers for jet aircraft fuel economy seem wrong. I know nothing of
> real life (circa 1998) vehicle ranges and fuell capacities, but the ones
> in Rigger 2 seem short.

The Fuel Economies for various power plant types does seem a bit odd at times,
but overall it works okay.

> Take the Lear-Cessna Platinum II vs the LAV-103 Striker Light Tank (page
> 160 R2). The Lear can carry 1500 ltrs of jet fuel, with an economy of .5
> km/ltr. That gives it as total range of 750kms. The Striker carries 800
> ltrs of diesel and has an economy of 2 km/ltr. That makes the tanks
> range of 1600km. I always thought that a Lear jet would be able to
> travel further than any tank, light or other wise.

There is a difference between flying in an aircraft versus driving a ground
vehicle. A ground vehicle does not have to worry about keeping the speed
above a certain mark to stay in the air. Aircraft also burn more fuel than a
standard ground vehicle engine also. Oh, and

> As i said earlier, I don't have much real world experience with vehicles
> of these types. Maybe it's the diesel fuel vs the jet fuel? But it comes
> up again and again with jet or thrusted based vehicles. The GMC Banshee
> stood out in my mind as another strange example. 7500 ltrs at .05
> km/ltr? It could only 375 klicks before re-fuelling? Is that right? You
> couldn't travel from Los Angeles to San Fransisco on one tank of gas? It
> just doesn't feel right. If I was smuggling my self from New Orleans to
> Mexico City via T-Bird, it would costs thousands in AV-fuel alone.

Most tbird runs are short hops which require something that can either carry a
lot in terms of CF or load and has potentially a lot of armor. For the longer
flights, yes, you would want something that has a better fuel economy overall,
and a tbird does not do that unless you crank the fuel economy to 0.3 km /
liter, in which case the range becomes roughly 220 kilometers.

> Do I have the right perspective on this or do the numbers bear out? Can
> a lear jet only go 750 kms. According to the book, it could only fly for
> One hour and 15 min at top speed before needing to land and re-fuel. Is
> that right?

Yeppers ... unfortunately.

-Herc
------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 22:24:45 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam Getchell <acgetchell@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
In-Reply-To: <b900a3cd.35c2ba14@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hey look, spare me the comments about how I want to reply. I was on this
list before it was on the current listproc, and if it's to the point where
you must stylistically reply a certain way, I'm happy to sign off again.

And I think you totally missed my point.

It is a silly idea to attempt to recharge a stealth suit using any sort of
solar cell system. The point about being a sniper in a ghilly suit is that
you may have to wait there for days, stealthy and silent, for your target
to emerge, which could happen at any time. You cannot be stuck trying to
recharge your batteries by unfolding some sort of high signature solar
grid. And trying to incorporate it into the suit is worse.

At 2:47 AM -0400 8/1/98, K is the Symbol wrote:
>Adam, two things....
>
>First, please reply your stuff AFTER the section you quote (it's in the
>FAQ's... ;)
>
>Second, Mike is stating the Suncell from the POV of when the RP is NOT in use,
>as a means of recharging the batteries "in the field", without a need to
carry
>things like extra batteries all over the place.
>
>Also, we've used "Suncell" all over the place in the games here. Sure, the
>pollution is nuts in many places, but NOT everywhere. And when you put up a
>tent, the tent itself is lined with Suncell Receptor Materials.
>
>Give that radio an extra flux point or two for range, and everyone will be
>happy :)
>
>-K


************************
* Adam Getchell
* Human Resources Information Systems
* acgetchell@*******.edu
* http://hr.ucdavis.edu/
* (530)752-1584 FAX (530)752-1289
***********************
"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent." --Sun Tzu
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 01:34:42 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 8/2/98 12:24:53 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
acgetchell@*******.EDU writes:

> Hey look, spare me the comments about how I want to reply. I was on this
> list before it was on the current listproc, and if it's to the point where
> you must stylistically reply a certain way, I'm happy to sign off again.

Sorry, but K is correct ... and if the rules change then we -ALL- must adapt
...

> And I think you totally missed my point.

No, we did not ...

> It is a silly idea to attempt to recharge a stealth suit using any sort of
> solar cell system. The point about being a sniper in a ghilly suit is that
> you may have to wait there for days, stealthy and silent, for your target
> to emerge, which could happen at any time. You cannot be stuck trying to
> recharge your batteries by unfolding some sort of high signature solar
> grid. And trying to incorporate it into the suit is worse.

Okay, what happens then when the sniper's comm pack and other electronics
begin to run out of power, what then?!? Does he carry extra batteries?!?
Carrying extra batteries means carrying more weight, which means potentially
less ammo being carried.

Suncell as per the R2 has no CF or Load Reduction ... it also produces in the
range of 25 PF for just a single hour out in perfect conditions.

The sniper would not have to have the Suncell out at all times ... and having
the Suncell incorporated into the ghillie suit means that the ghillie suit
accomplishes two tasks rather than camoflaguing the sniper, in that it now
also collects power, and could provide additional flux points towards
communications and the like. It could also recharge a Mp-Laser III or other
laser type weapon.

It all takes some looking at Adam ... that's all ...

Take another look at R2 and see how you can use some of the options and
customizations on things other than vehicles ...

-Herc
------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 22:36:19 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam Getchell <acgetchell@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
In-Reply-To: <16daafa5.35c316aa@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

No ... a MAD detects primarily ferromagnetic materials.

A suncell would be absurdly easy to detect by simply using light
intensification in the yellow band of the EM spectrum ... there is no such
thing as a 100% absorptive material, and the suncell is going to reflect
light all over the place.

>In a message dated 7/31/98 7:11:39 PM US Eastern Standard Time,

>The only other problem that Suncell could have is that it can be detected by a
>very sensitive MAD (Magnetic Anomaly Detector) ... am I right in saying this?
>
>-Herc
>------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.


************************
* Adam Getchell
* Human Resources Information Systems
* acgetchell@*******.edu
* http://hr.ucdavis.edu/
* (530)752-1584 FAX (530)752-1289
***********************
"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent." --Sun Tzu
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 01:05:54 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John Dukes <dukes@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Rigger 2 Fuel Economy
In-Reply-To: <9e6a1189.35c3f73f@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Most tbird runs are short hops which require something that can either
carry a
>lot in terms of CF or load and has potentially a lot of armor. For the
longer
>flights, yes, you would want something that has a better fuel economy
overall,
>and a tbird does not do that unless you crank the fuel economy to 0.3 km /


Standard off-the-shelf t-birds dont have great range. But what smuggler
worth a damn is going to fly an off-the-shelf model? The first thing a
smuggler is going to do is overhaul the system to make it more fuel
efficient. Max out the fuel efficiency and you have a max range of around
1400 miles. Throw in a couple drop-tanks (or an internal fuel bladder) and
you have plenty of range.

Speaking of t-birds, where do smugglers KEEP them? Surely you dont park
them in your garage in Seattle... perhaps semi-permanant mobile camps up in
the mountains? Maybe you pay a fee or something to park the bird at a
shadow truckstop or something? T:SH although helpful as far as smuggling
goes, could stand a bit more detail on the t-bird stuff.

-Teeg
Who thinks t-birds are tres cool.
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 22:58:38 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam Getchell <acgetchell@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
In-Reply-To: <7356faa5.35c3fa73@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

My perspective is based on real life and physics ...

>Okay, what happens then when the sniper's comm pack and other electronics
>begin to run out of power, what then?!? Does he carry extra batteries?!?

No ... he does not need to. A military radio with batteries can last
several weeks on one charge. The com is not in constant use ... at most
there are specified "check in" times every couple of hours or days.

Snipers in the field do NOT want to compromise their position. This means
they use the radio as little as possible.

>The sniper would not have to have the Suncell out at all times ... and having
>the Suncell incorporated into the ghillie suit means that the ghillie suit
>accomplishes two tasks rather than camoflaguing the sniper, in that it now

Again ... if you put a "sun cell" system into a suit, you eliminate its
camouflage potential. A nice diffuse low power laser will cause you to
light up like a flare. All I have to do is look for a reflectance curve
that peaks around 650 nanometers ... that will stand out nicely against the
chlorophyll curve of the surrounding vegetation.

If this physics doesn't make sense to you, check out a good college
textbook on physics. This is not meant to be condescending ... just a
reference to real life if my arguments aren't clear.

>also collects power, and could provide additional flux points towards

Flux is an abstract game mechanic that tries to approximately model
electromagnetic flux in the radio frequency band for things like radar,
radio, etc. "Higher flux points" means there is more signal being put out;
thus, easier to detect, easier to isolate the source, even if it cannot be
unencrytped. A sniper putting out a lot of radio signal is announcing their
presence.

>It all takes some looking at Adam ... that's all ...

Sure ... in real life its not practical.

>-Herc


************************
* Adam Getchell
* Human Resources Information Systems
* acgetchell@*******.edu
* http://hr.ucdavis.edu/
* (530)752-1584 FAX (530)752-1289
***********************
"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent." --Sun Tzu
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 02:32:53 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Shamanic Mask
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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When precisely does this oft-overlooked little manifestation show up? Just
during spellcasting? Or does it show up during summonings, too? What about
Shamanic Physical Adepts? Do their powers cause the mask to form, or is it
just a spell caster thing?

Nexx
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 02:44:14 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 8/2/1998 12:24:53 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
acgetchell@*******.EDU writes:

>
> It is a silly idea to attempt to recharge a stealth suit using any sort of
> solar cell system. The point about being a sniper in a ghilly suit is that
> you may have to wait there for days, stealthy and silent, for your target
> to emerge, which could happen at any time. You cannot be stuck trying to
> recharge your batteries by unfolding some sort of high signature solar
> grid. And trying to incorporate it into the suit is worse.
>
Adam, I would advise doing something right now.

Correct the attitude, as I snipped your little "I was here before you were and
this list was on this listserv bit." There are people here that have been
around FAR longer than yourself, and they do there little tidbits here and
there to help the list continue to move along.

As for why it's such a bad idea?

Why don't you explain why it really and truly is a bad idea. And please
remember, use SR timeline stuff, and NOT any heavily relational material to
the current, real world, science. Use it as a comparison, sure, as a direct
measure, doesn't work really well.

I've had talked with people about "Solar Tents" (NOT Nets, the term
"Net" is a
slang here), and it works fine in many part of the world, especially in higher
mountain regions, deserts, and open bodies of water (great lakes, oceans,
etc.).

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 02:46:51 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 8/2/1998 12:36:34 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
acgetchell@*******.EDU writes:

> No ... a MAD detects primarily ferromagnetic materials.

No, it has the possibility of detecting such, not a guarantee...

> A suncell would be absurdly easy to detect by simply using light
> intensification in the yellow band of the EM spectrum ... there is no such
> thing as a 100% absorptive material, and the suncell is going to reflect
> light all over the place.

Not in the current science realm, you are correct. In SR's days, maybe, maybe
not. BUT, regardless of this, the tech exists in SR and it functions well.

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 03:02:03 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shamanic Mask
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 8/2/1998 1:33:48 AM US Eastern Standard Time, Nexx3@***.COM
writes:

> When precisely does this oft-overlooked little manifestation show up? Just
> during spellcasting? Or does it show up during summonings, too? What
about
> Shamanic Physical Adepts? Do their powers cause the mask to form, or is it
> just a spell caster thing?
>
In the games here, we often use it as a role-playing tool, encouraging the
player to show more of the mask whenever the action is either really difficult
in their own opinions, or it has a particular personal interest.

In the game mechanics, it's part of the "aura manifestation" stuff concerning
spell force and magic attribute. IMO, it -DOES- show up for conjurings,
especially larger spirits or those that are of a particular totemicy.

On the flipside, many totems might not show their mask except in extreme
circumstances, such as Spider or Owl when they are trying to remain stealthy.

Yes, we also allow for PADs to manifest as well, especially those more
"dramatic" powers, such as Killing Hands, Distance Strike, or even Mystic
Armor. If you've ever seen "The Last Dragon" (somewhat aged look at martial
arts in america with a mystical twist), you would have some idea of what we
usually suggest.

-K


-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 11:57:15 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: SR3 Doubts
In-Reply-To: <199807311803.OAA17150@****.fac.com>
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Brian Moore said on 14:03/31 Jul 98,...

> If only we could upload Bull's brain to the net. Then everyone could
> download it! :-)

Are you sure that would be a _good_ thing? :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Money, tickets, passports! Money, tickets, passports!
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 11:57:16 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980731140340.1af76c36@****.fbiz.com>
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Erik Jameson said on 17:01/31 Jul 98,...

> >It is most definitely a six-color camouflage, but especially in
>
> Guess maybe my source was wrong. No big.

Nope. It's easy to get confused about these things, especially if
you don't have more than a passing interest :)

> Heh. It's not got the most attractive of covers to be honest, but I had to
> parade it around to the folks there and say "Hey! I know this guy!" Not
> that they really cared...

I was at GenCon Benelux yesterday and nobody was selling it,
and the people I asked hadn't even _heard_ of it :(

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Money, tickets, passports! Money, tickets, passports!
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 11:57:15 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
In-Reply-To: <Pine.HPP.3.96.980731124958.18735B-100000@********.cc.edu>
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Eric M. Farmer said on 12:51/31 Jul 98,...

> For those of us non-mercs or military men, define a ghillie suit.

A camouflage suit with strips of clothing and pieces of camouflage
netting sewn on. Local vegetation is added onto (into) the suit so
that if done well, the sniper wearing it becomes just about
invisible from very close by. (A Dutch magazine did an article on
Dutch Army snipers a few months ago. There was one "spot the
sniper" picture in the article, with a comment from the author
that he'd had to ask the sniper to stand up a few times so he
knew where to point his camera. This was at a distance of maybe
3 meters, judging from the photo.)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Money, tickets, passports! Money, tickets, passports!
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 11:57:16 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Thieving
In-Reply-To: <006101bdbdb4$01a81ec0$9aa910cf@********>
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Patrick Goodman said on 20:20/1 Aug 98,...

> Okay, guys, another silly rules question. Trying to work up an NPC who's a
> second-story man and a pickpocket. Climbing rules and skills I can figure
> out, and he's got stealth, but how would you handle something like picking a
> lock or lifting someone's credstick? And please don't refer me to
> SHADOWBEAT...I've already looked. <g>

Use Special Skills called something like Picking Pockets (default
to Quickness with a +4 TN or so) and Lockpicking (Intelligence
+4), then roll a skill test to see if it succeeds. For picking pockets,
I'd make it an opposed test between the pocket picker's skill and
the target's Intelligence -- the target getting more successes
means the attempt was noticed (maybe you can allow an opposed
Quickness test to snatch the contents of the pockets anyway).

For picking mechanical locks, assign a rating to the lock and roll
the Lockpicking skill; give a penalty for not using appropriate
tools, and a more severe one for not using tools at all. Success
means the lock is opened, failure means it isn't (simple, innit? :)
Average door locks would have a rating of about 3, simple ones
(say, on a diary) are 1, difficult ones around 6, while safes are 8+
or so.

Picking electronic locks is covered in the Neo-A Guide to Real Life.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Money, tickets, passports! Money, tickets, passports!
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 11:57:16 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: SR3 Doubts -Reply
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980801142343.007f37a0@***.43.20.203>
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Justin Bell said on 14:23/1 Aug 98,...

> and I live in the IS so there!

We all live in the Inner Shere.

Except maybe for Elvis...

:)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Money, tickets, passports! Money, tickets, passports!
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 11:57:15 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Skills
In-Reply-To: <35C332D7.76A5@**********.com>
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Bai Shen said on 11:23/1 Aug 98,...

> Welp, I managed to pick up Shadowbeat last night an' found the stuff
> about singin'. However, I'm still not sure what to do about painting
> and sculpting. Any ideas, ya'll?

What I suggest you do is let the sculptor or painter roll a test
using the appropriate Special Skill, multiply by his or her
Charisma, and look at the Performance Ratings Table on page 13
for an idea of how well the piece of art comes out.

Then slightly adjust the Rocker Status rules, mainly by changing
the names a bit, to allow players to become well-known artists.
As for the Booking Fee and Distribution, these could work like this:

The Booking Fee is what the artist gets for selling a piece -- roll
the Performance Test for each piece of art created, and use the
formula for the Booking Fee to decide the base price collectors,
galleries, or museums are willing to pay for it.

The Distribution would be used if the artist makes a series of the
same thing, like making a painting and then having X copies
printed. The total amount of money made by all the copies that
are sold equals the result of the Distribution formula. (If someone
wants to buy the original, you can still use the Booking Fee
formula for that, as it's usually sold separately.)

All it takes are some minor modifications, mainly to the names of
things, and you're there.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Money, tickets, passports! Money, tickets, passports!
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 11:57:16 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Assault canon in RL
In-Reply-To: <96223f8e.35c26576@***.com>
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Michael vanHulst said on 20:46/31 Jul 98,...

> I was also readin something about a recoilless rifle (man-portable), though I
> shall leave it to others to describe, since I am unsure of specifics.

Recoilless rifles have been used since before WWII, but the
biggest drawback are that they're single-shot weapons and have
a huge backblast (don't stand behind one when it's loaded, let
alone will soon be fired).

As SR's assault cannons are magazine-fed weapons and don't
have a backblast (I'm sure that would have been mentioned as
it's kinda important when firing one indoors), I don't think they
are recoilless rifles.

However, Mauser I believe has built a couple of prototypes of a
belt-fed, recoilless 30 mm cannon for the Bundeswehr, intended
as armament for helicopters and light vehicles. If this proves a
success I could see it being applied to similar but lighter weapons
for use by individual soldiers.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Money, tickets, passports! Money, tickets, passports!
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 05:09:04 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam Getchell <acgetchell@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
In-Reply-To: <cc22a046.35c40abf@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>As for why it's such a bad idea?

I've explained it before. If you have a solar collection system, it has to
be reflective. Got that?

Therefore, it goes completely against the purpose of camouflage.

Consult a basic physics text on materials or solar cells ...

It works fine as long as you only want a power source.

Spare me the attitude talk.

>-K


************************
* Adam Getchell
* Human Resources Information Systems
* acgetchell@*******.edu
* http://hr.ucdavis.edu/
* (530)752-1584 FAX (530)752-1289
***********************
"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent." --Sun Tzu
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 05:12:27 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam Getchell <acgetchell@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
In-Reply-To: <5eba1c6f.35c40b5c@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>Not in the current science realm, you are correct. In SR's days, maybe, maybe
>not. BUT, regardless of this, the tech exists in SR and it functions well.

No, it doesn't matter what "science realm" you use. It is a basic physical
property. A solar cell will absorb 650 nanometer light, that is its
function. Therefore, you can characterize this reflectance curve using
spectrophotometry, quite easily. Therefore you will always be able to
detect such materials.

As I said, if this is unclear, consult a physics text.
>
>-K


************************
* Adam Getchell
* Human Resources Information Systems
* acgetchell@*******.edu
* http://hr.ucdavis.edu/
* (530)752-1584 FAX (530)752-1289
***********************
"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent." --Sun Tzu
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 08:48:38 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Rigger 2 Fuel Economy
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 8/2/98 12:53:31 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
dukes@*******.NET writes:

> >Most tbird runs are short hops which require something that can either
> carry a
> >lot in terms of CF or load and has potentially a lot of armor. For the
> longer
> >flights, yes, you would want something that has a better fuel economy
> overall,
> >and a tbird does not do that unless you crank the fuel economy to 0.3 km /
>
>
> Standard off-the-shelf t-birds dont have great range. But what smuggler
> worth a damn is going to fly an off-the-shelf model? The first thing a
> smuggler is going to do is overhaul the system to make it more fuel
> efficient. Max out the fuel efficiency and you have a max range of around
> 1400 miles. Throw in a couple drop-tanks (or an internal fuel bladder) and
> you have plenty of range.

Yep ... which sounds just like what current day tank crews do when they remove
the speed governor from the engines when they get a new one from the factory.
You would think someone would have turned around and told the factory to go
ahead and not install the things in anyway.

> Speaking of t-birds, where do smugglers KEEP them? Surely you dont park
> them in your garage in Seattle... perhaps semi-permanant mobile camps up in
> the mountains? Maybe you pay a fee or something to park the bird at a
> shadow truckstop or something? T:SH although helpful as far as smuggling
> goes, could stand a bit more detail on the t-bird stuff.

Personally, the governments are aware of -ALL- of the air fields, and this
would apply in the highly developed nations only or where the megas have
rather severe interest in the place. The only reason the governments don't
crackdown on the places is that the snugglers do perform services for the
governments and people in power, which this allows them to stay in place and
in operation as long as they do not piss off the local government.

Once here in the home game, a long time ago, about 3 years ago or so, the Air
Rig Boss for the Pacific Northwest (there was no name mentioned in CalFree
State at the time) had begun to accumulate more and more popularity and better
pilots and the like. Someone got jealous and one day the Salish government
sent a 8 hour eviction notice to her, Aurora at the time, and the base.
Needless to say, a lot of nearby truck stops and other large open parking lots
became filled up fast as all of the aircraft (40+) and gear and the like were
moved to them.

-Herc
------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 08:58:22 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 8/2/98 12:58:52 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
acgetchell@*******.EDU writes:

> My perspective is based on real life and physics ...

I'm sorry ... I was using the rules of the game ... although I do like to
throw in RL information when it does not cause serious conflicts with the game
rules ... we all do this to some extent or another.

> >Okay, what happens then when the sniper's comm pack and other electronics
> >begin to run out of power, what then?!? Does he carry extra batteries?!?
>
> No ... he does not need to. A military radio with batteries can last
> several weeks on one charge. The com is not in constant use ... at most
> there are specified "check in" times every couple of hours or days.

Yeah ... I know this part ... all of my scoutmasters in Europe were all
military personnel (a NIS agent, a SeaBee, a Supply Officer) and other people
I met, all mentioned things about the batteries being really long lasting ...
just that sometimes you want to make sure you are well-prepared in case the
batteries do get run down (which can happen with time).

> Snipers in the field do NOT want to compromise their position. This means
> they use the radio as little as possible.

There is another possibility here ... the sniper team could drop the Suncell
power pack off at some location far from them, which would minimize it's
detectability ... this would still allow them to have access to it's radio-
boosting effect when they are on their way out.

> >The sniper would not have to have the Suncell out at all times ... and
> having
> >the Suncell incorporated into the ghillie suit means that the ghillie suit
> >accomplishes two tasks rather than camoflaguing the sniper, in that it now
>
> Again ... if you put a "sun cell" system into a suit, you eliminate its
> camouflage potential. A nice diffuse low power laser will cause you to
> light up like a flare. All I have to do is look for a reflectance curve
> that peaks around 650 nanometers ... that will stand out nicely against the
> chlorophyll curve of the surrounding vegetation.

Cool .. I'll have to use this against the players in the home game then ...

> If this physics doesn't make sense to you, check out a good college
> textbook on physics. This is not meant to be condescending ... just a
> reference to real life if my arguments aren't clear.

The only problem I would have with checking out a physics textbook is that
sometimes the information does not jump out at you and say "Here ... this is
the information you wanted to know ... only one thing ... you have to
understand what you are reading to get the hint."

> >also collects power, and could provide additional flux points towards
>
> Flux is an abstract game mechanic that tries to approximately model
> electromagnetic flux in the radio frequency band for things like radar,
> radio, etc. "Higher flux points" means there is more signal being put out;
> thus, easier to detect, easier to isolate the source, even if it cannot be
> unencrytped. A sniper putting out a lot of radio signal is announcing their
> presence.

Ah ... that is very true ... but when it comes to getting your transportation
to the LZ ... you'd still do it anyway ... there are lots of possibilities ...

> >It all takes some looking at Adam ... that's all ...
>
> Sure ... in real life its not practical.

I know ... oh, btw, thanks for responding this way ...

-Herc
------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 09:02:38 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shamanic Mask
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 8/2/98 1:33:51 AM US Eastern Standard Time, Nexx3@***.COM
writes:

> When precisely does this oft-overlooked little manifestation show up? Just
> during spellcasting? Or does it show up during summonings, too? What
about
> Shamanic Physical Adepts? Do their powers cause the mask to form, or is it
> just a spell caster thing?

The more power any magically active individual cranks out (especially
initiates) the more obvious the mask (as even hermetics have one too) becomes.
What I take that to me is that the number of successes on the caster's part is
in relation to their unmodified Magic attribute. The closer the success test
is to the Magic attribute the more apparent the mask. Go above the Magic
attribute and the mask begins to become really noticeable.

Oh, K and I have agreed upon something about the SR3 rule about the max number
of successes a spell can have ... instead of the force of the spell ... we are
going to use the Magic attribute (Essence + Grade, only) to determine the max
number of success possible.

-Herc
------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 14:15:08 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Skills
In-Reply-To: <SHADOWRN%98080118522690@********.ITRIBE.NET> from "Greg
Symons"
at Aug 1, 98 07:05:35 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did Greg Symons hastily scribble thusly...
|Sculpture (general skill)
| Medium (metals, stone, clay)

I little limited. Should be (Any item that can be shaped in 3D, eg Wood,
Metal, Stone, Plastic, etc).

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 14:19:27 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Thieving
In-Reply-To: <006101bdbdb4$01a81ec0$9aa910cf@********> from "Patrick
Goodman"
at Aug 1, 98 08:20:17 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did Patrick Goodman hastily scribble thusly...
|
|Okay, guys, another silly rules question. Trying to work up an NPC who's a
|second-story man and a pickpocket. Climbing rules and skills I can figure
|out, and he's got stealth, but how would you handle something like picking a
|lock or lifting someone's credstick?

Picking locks? Easy. Use Build/Repair mechanical, Specialist: Locks.
Picking pockets. Opposed test of Skill vs Intelligence of victim.

The one with more successes succeeds.
If the pickpocked fails, use the target number of the value of his
pickpocked skill to see whether he gets caught. (Victim rolls intelligence
again....)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 14:20:13 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Thieving
In-Reply-To: <199808020249.WAA19515@********.mindspring.com> from "Mike
Chartier" at Aug 1, 98 10:50:12 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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And verily, did Mike Chartier hastily scribble thusly...
|
|At 08:20 PM 8/1/98 -0500, Patrick wrote:
|>Okay, guys, another silly rules question. Trying to work up an NPC who's a
|>second-story man and a pickpocket. Climbing rules and skills I can figure
|>out, and he's got stealth, but how would you handle something like picking a
|>lock or lifting someone's credstick? And please don't refer me to
|>SHADOWBEAT...I've already looked. <g>
|
|You'll need new skills: Lockpicking(combination, key, window) and

Nahhh. Lockpicking can easily be pigeonholed into build/repair.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 14:22:25 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
In-Reply-To: <7356faa5.35c3fa73@***.com> from "Mike Bobroff" at Aug 2,
98 01:34:42 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
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And verily, did Mike Bobroff hastily scribble thusly...
|
|In a message dated 8/2/98 12:24:53 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
|acgetchell@*******.EDU writes:
|
|> Hey look, spare me the comments about how I want to reply. I was on this
|> list before it was on the current listproc, and if it's to the point where
|> you must stylistically reply a certain way, I'm happy to sign off again.
|
|Sorry, but K is correct ... and if the rules change then we -ALL- must adapt

Why? I still use 1stEd...

:)


--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 11:05:50 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 8/2/1998 7:09:08 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
acgetchell@*******.EDU writes:

> >As for why it's such a bad idea?
>
> I've explained it before. If you have a solar collection system, it has to
> be reflective. Got that?

I understand what you are saying, but I am wondering why it has to be so
drastically reflective. For some reason you are NOT taking into account the
newer solar collecting abilities that -obviously- exist within SR. The
designer of the new R2 is not a stupid person, and he may have readily taken
some of what you are saying into consideration (maybe not all, but some).

> Therefore, it goes completely against the purpose of camouflage.
> Consult a basic physics text on materials or solar cells ...
> It works fine as long as you only want a power source.

You refuse to go the fictional distance on this one. SR Game Mechanics are
not meant to replicate a "Physics Text" or any other major type of textual
material used as an educational or relational piece of literature for that
matter. They may draw upon the concepts of science as we know them today, but
they are NOT stuck in the limitations of today.

Yes, there are limitations that probably do exist.

I have been getting your little tirade of argument for "this won't work" since
the beginning. As have the majority of those that are also paying attention.
We already knew about the EM reflectivity involved in Solar Collection as it
stands today. But we also know that you are talking about "Yellow Light
Orientated" collection methods. Those are NOT the only ones that exist today,
and I seriously doubt they will be the only one's in the future either.

We are also talking about possibilities within a game mechanics that stretch
the imagination, but do NOT snap it entirely out of believability. THAT is
the obstacle you have with this, and you are probably not alone.

What is one man's dream is another man's science and yet a third man's
folly...

> Spare me the attitude talk.

You will be spared no such thing, as none of us when we made our mistakes
and/or goof-ups were.

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 11:09:10 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Logan Graves <logan1@*****.INTERCOM.NET>
Organization: "Big Knobi Klub" http://www.intercom.net/user/logan1/bkk.htm
Subject: Re: Thieving
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In our last episode, Mike Chartier wrote in responce to:
>
> > Patrick's earlier post:
> > Trying to work up an NPC who's a second-story man and a pickpocket.
>
> You'll need new skills: Lockpicking(combination, key, window) and
> Prestidigitation(sleight of hand, picking pockets). The rest is easy.

Also in this high-tech day & age, you'll need plenty of "Electronics" or
at least a concentration in "Secrurity Systems."

--Fenris
_______________________________________________logan1@*****.intercom.net
(>) We aim to please.
(>) Vito Corleone & Sons, Hitmen-for-Hire
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 10:04:14 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Shamanic Mask
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>When precisely does this oft-overlooked little manifestation show up?
>Just during spellcasting? Or does it show up during summonings, too?
>What about Shamanic Physical Adepts? Do their powers cause the mask
>to form, or is it just a spell caster thing?

As I've always seen it done here, and as I do it in my own game now that I'm
getting brave and GMing, is that anything that depends on the Talent will
fire up the mask; it's simply a matter of degree, what's being done, whether
they get shamanic bonuses for particular things they might be doing, and how
powerful a shaman you're dealing with.

I've got a player whose running a shaman of Owl, for instance. (Sidetrack:
Is it me, or did the guy's at FASA completely overlook the fact that, in
most Native American cultures, Owl is major death magic?) During the day,
if she has the misfortune of being up and about, she can cast spells and her
nose looks a little more like a beak. If, at night, she casts a spell at
Force 1 or Force 2, she gets much the same effect, and her eyes might look a
little wider and rounder, and her hands might look a little more like talons
than would make some people comfortable. If she goes into full mojo mode,
casting high-value sorcery at night, the mask is there full-throttle, right
down to feathers. Arms look like wings, the whole nine yards.

Seems to me that it would work much the same way for a physad. If he's not
straining himself, but is still using his powers, then the mask would show
up a little bit. If he's going full-bore, giving everything he's got, then
the mask would be much more pronounced. It's harder to be sneaky as a
shamanic physad than it would be as a hermetic physad.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 10:09:14 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Thieving
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>> ...how would you handle something like picking a
>> lock or lifting someone's credstick?
>
>Use Special Skills called something like Picking Pockets (default
>to Quickness with a +4 TN or so) and Lockpicking (Intelligence
>+4), then roll a skill test to see if it succeeds.

Lots of other stuff snipped. This is what I was hoping for...couple of
others have given me similar advice. Thanks; I appreciate it.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 11:09:52 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 8/2/1998 8:22:43 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK writes:

> |Sorry, but K is correct ... and if the rules change then we -ALL- must
adapt
>
> Why? I still use 1stEd...
>
(*THWAP*)

Wrong rules Spike...
-K
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 10:04:47 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Shamanic Mask
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>The more power any magically active individual cranks out (especially
>initiates) the more obvious the mask (as even hermetics have one too)
>becomes.

Okay, here's an interesting notion. Where the heck did you get the idea
that hermetics have a mask, too? What do they get a mask of? Merlin?

It's an interesting notion, like I said, but I can't find any support for it
in the books.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 10:13:05 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Thieving
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>> You'll need new skills: Lockpicking(combination, key, window) and
>> Prestidigitation(sleight of hand, picking pockets). The rest is easy.
>
>Also in this high-tech day & age, you'll need plenty of "Electronics" or
>at least a concentration in "Secrurity Systems."

Those he's got.

Another question, probably answered in UNDERWORLD someplace, but I've not
been able to find it: Does losing a finger, a la the Yakuza, have any major
game effects, or is it mostly a role-playing issue?

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 08:20:14 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam Getchell <acgetchell@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
In-Reply-To: <d2b4735d.35c4804f@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>In a message dated 8/2/1998 7:09:08 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
>acgetchell@*******.EDU writes:

>I understand what you are saying, but I am wondering why it has to be so
>drastically reflective. For some reason you are NOT taking into account the
>newer solar collecting abilities that -obviously- exist within SR. The
>designer of the new R2 is not a stupid person, and he may have readily taken
>some of what you are saying into consideration (maybe not all, but some).

Some thought and understanding of physics would explain this ...

>You refuse to go the fictional distance on this one. SR Game Mechanics are

That is correct: it won't work. You're free to make up whatever fantasy you
desire, just admit that it is fantasy and not remotely based on real life.
If you want to pretend something is plausible, then you have to submit it
to the realm of the possible.

>I have been getting your little tirade of argument for "this won't work"
since
>the beginning. As have the majority of those that are also paying attention.

You're free to ignore reality if you wish ... if you don't like my input,
I'm not forcing you to read it.

>Orientated" collection methods. Those are NOT the only ones that exist today,
>and I seriously doubt they will be the only one's in the future either.

Um ... that statement indicates a lack of understanding of the science and
technology behind solar cells and the photoelectric process. "Yellow light"
is the peak energy output of the sun ... you know, the "solar" part of
solar cell? You can try if you want to collect IR or UV, but you'll cut
your yield by a factor of 10-100. Again, some basic understanding of
physics would yield this insight.

>We are also talking about possibilities within a game mechanics that stretch
>the imagination, but do NOT snap it entirely out of believability. THAT is

What you propose is unrealistic. To my mind, it snaps it out of reality.

>What is one man's dream is another man's science and yet a third man's
>folly...

Seen any "moon cannons" yet? That was Jules Verne's idea on getting to the
moon. Why do you suppose we didn't use it?

>You will be spared no such thing, as none of us when we made our mistakes
>and/or goof-ups were.

Whatever. Feel free to appoint yourself self-righteous whatever; I'll feel
free to ignore you.

>-K


************************
* Adam Getchell
* Human Resources Information Systems
* acgetchell@*******.edu
* http://hr.ucdavis.edu/
* (530)752-1584 FAX (530)752-1289
***********************
"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent." --Sun Tzu
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 11:42:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Iridios <iridios@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Adam Getchell wrote:
Sun, 2 Aug 1998 05:12:27 -0700

> No, it doesn't matter what "science realm" you use. It is a basic physical
> property. A solar cell will absorb 650 nanometer light, that is its
> function.

Unless someone chooses to use a solar cell that utilizes other
wavelengths, yes it might be less efficient but still may serve a
purpose. Sometimes you need to trade off efficiency for certain other
benefits. And as far as using "science realms". Science in 20xx is
still the same as we use today, but at the rate of technological
growth, great advances can/could have been made in the field of solar
energy collection, especially if the pro-ecology folks manage to push
it hard.

<snip sig>

--"Any science, sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from
magic."
--Arthur C. Clarke

Iridios
iridios@*********.com
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9489
http://members.theglobe.com/Iridios

-------Begin Geek Code Block------
GS d-(++) s+: a- C++ U?@>++ P L E?
W++ N o-- K- w(---) O? M-- V? PS+@
PE Y+ !PGP>++ t++@ 5+ X++@ R++@ tv
b+ DI++ !D G e+@>++++ h--- r+++ y+++
-------End Geek Code Block--------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 11:46:34 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Iridios <iridios@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Adam Getchell wrote:
Sun, 2 Aug 1998 08:20:14 -0700

> >What is one man's dream is another man's science and yet a third man's
> >folly...
>
> Seen any "moon cannons" yet? That was Jules Verne's idea on getting to the
> moon. Why do you suppose we didn't use it?

Ummm... Jules Verne's idea and what we accomplished aren't that far
apart. Verne used a cannon to propel the vehicle while leaving the
propellant on earth, NASA put the propellant in the vehicle and did
away with the cannon. According to Physics it was easier.

<snip sig>

--"Any science, sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from
magic."
--Arthur C. Clarke

Iridios
iridios@*********.com
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9489
http://members.theglobe.com/Iridios

-------Begin Geek Code Block------
GS d-(++) s+: a- C++ U?@>++ P L E?
W++ N o-- K- w(---) O? M-- V? PS+@
PE Y+ !PGP>++ t++@ 5+ X++@ R++@ tv
b+ DI++ !D G e+@>++++ h--- r+++ y+++
-------End Geek Code Block--------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 11:49:46 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 8/2/98 8:22:34 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK writes:

> |> Hey look, spare me the comments about how I want to reply. I was on this
> |> list before it was on the current listproc, and if it's to the point
> where
> |> you must stylistically reply a certain way, I'm happy to sign off
again.
> |
> |Sorry, but K is correct ... and if the rules change then we -ALL- must
> adapt
>
> Why? I still use 1stEd...

*** Looking somewhat strangely at the screen **

*** Resisting the urge to thwap ***

I suggest you reread what I was responding to ... in reference to the FAQ ...
not what edition of SR you happen to be playing ...

And no, I will not thwap you ...

-Herc
------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 10:50:49 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>> Seen any "moon cannons" yet? That was Jules Verne's idea on getting
>> to the moon. Why do you suppose we didn't use it?
>
>Ummm... Jules Verne's idea and what we accomplished aren't that far
>apart. Verne used a cannon to propel the vehicle while leaving the
>propellant on earth, NASA put the propellant in the vehicle and did
>away with the cannon. According to Physics it was easier.

Roger that. My father worked for NASA on various space shuttle contracts
for nearly 20 years before he retired; I grew up with the space program
almost as a pacifier. On balance, Verne got a helluva lot more right than
he got wrong in FROM THE EARTH TO THE MOON, and his ratio in TWENTY THOUSAND
LEAGUES UNDER THE SEA is even more impressive.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 12:15:04 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 8/2/98 10:23:32 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
acgetchell@*******.EDU writes:

> Seen any "moon cannons" yet? That was Jules Verne's idea on getting to the
> moon. Why do you suppose we didn't use it?
>
> >You will be spared no such thing, as none of us when we made our mistakes
> >and/or goof-ups were.
>
> Whatever. Feel free to appoint yourself self-righteous whatever; I'll feel
> free to ignore you.

**** Glaring ****

Get a clue Adam ... a lot of us are tired when someone says something is not
good because of RL ... I am tried of having K described as Self-righteous ...
take a step away from yourself and reread your posting ...

As for Moon Cannons ... Peter Gun had something in mind to launch things into
orbit ... given several more decades and perhaps reaching the moon would be
possible ...

Adam ... chill out some ... you are getting me angry by calling the game
system unrealistic ... *duh* .... the game is a game ... it is not even real
...

Wake up ...

-Mike
-Herc
------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 13:41:52 +0100
Reply-To: "kurt.bath" <kurt.bath@******.net>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "kurt.bath" <kurt.bath@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Adam Getchell wrote:
>Again ... if you put a "sun cell" system into a suit, you eliminate its
>camouflage potential. A nice diffuse low power laser will cause you to
>light up like a flare. All I have to do is look for a reflectance curve
>that peaks around 650 nanometers ... that will stand out nicely against the
>chlorophyll curve of the surrounding vegetation.
>
If I get the gist of the original idea i.e. using a 100% absorptive
material. You would not get a peak on the reflectance curve at 650 nm .The
peak exist because at that wavelength the light is not absorb but reflected
it is the same reason why grass is green, the light in the green range of
the EM spectrum is reflected and not absorbed.

Just to add another coal to the fire that has become this discussion is it
feasable to produce a less effiecient solar cell. Which would absorb energy
in the 650 nm range but reflect it at about 720 ish nm which I think is
somewhere about the green range.

>If this physics doesn't make sense to you, check out a good college
>textbook on physics. This is not meant to be condescending ... just a
>reference to real life if my arguments aren't clear.


Can I also make another suggestion ;->

There are a lot of people on this list who have been on here a long time, I
could count myself as one of these having been on here in various
incarnations for 5 years. Not all of us know the new protocols and
netiquette but we try to abide by them.

Question: if there is the technology to produce a coating which can absorb
EM energy released at sub 400 nm which is the range that IR is emmitted
could you make an aborbative material which would absorb at 650 nm?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 17:30:08 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
In-Reply-To: <781714dd.35c48141@***.com> from "K is the Symbol" at Aug 2,
98 11:09:52 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did K is the Symbol hastily scribble thusly...
|
|In a message dated 8/2/1998 8:22:43 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
|u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK writes:
|
|> |Sorry, but K is correct ... and if the rules change then we -ALL- must
|adapt
|>
|> Why? I still use 1stEd...
|>
|(*THWAP*)
|
|Wrong rules Spike...

Not for me they're not...
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 17:32:44 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
In-Reply-To: <fcc7e5d4.35c48a9c@***.com> from "Mike Bobroff" at Aug 2,
98 11:49:46 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Mike Bobroff hastily scribble thusly...
|I suggest you reread what I was responding to ... in reference to the FAQ ...
|not what edition of SR you happen to be playing ...

Oh, I just picked up on the first few lines....

|And no, I will not thwap you ...

Performed by -K a few minutes ago...
I'll need a shower now...

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 11:33:35 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Shadowrunner <nocturnal@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Adam Getchell wrote:
>
> >Not in the current science realm, you are correct. In SR's days, maybe, maybe
> >not. BUT, regardless of this, the tech exists in SR and it functions well.
>
> No, it doesn't matter what "science realm" you use. It is a basic physical
> property. A solar cell will absorb 650 nanometer light, that is its
> function. Therefore, you can characterize this reflectance curve using
> spectrophotometry, quite easily. Therefore you will always be able to
> detect such materials.
>
> As I said, if this is unclear, consult a physics text.
> >
> >-K

Thats how photovoltaic cells work nowadays.. Remember, technology can come a long way
in 60 years.

Nocturnal
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 17:46:09 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
In-Reply-To: <35C44E8F.60C2@*******.net> from "Shadowrunner" at Aug 2,
98 11:33:35 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did Shadowrunner hastily scribble thusly...
|Thats how photovoltaic cells work nowadays.. Remember, technology can come
a long way in 60 years.

Errrm.. Solar Cells *ARE* Photovoltaic cells.

P.S. Please adjust you margins to around 75. Anything more looks incredibly
untidy in e-mails. (Max column width should be 80)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 13:44:37 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Greg Symons <gsymons@******.TEMPLE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Skills
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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>And verily, did Greg Symons hastily scribble thusly...
>|Sculpture (general skill)
>| Medium (metals, stone, clay)
>
>I little limited. Should be (Any item that can be shaped in 3D, eg
Wood,
>Metal, Stone, Plastic, etc).

That's actually what I meant... I forgot the etc.:)

I also ran it by an art major friend of mine, and he suggested an
addition:

Graphic Design
Medium (Computer-based publishing, printmaking, etc...)
Style (Advertising, Packaging, Illustration, etc...)

The difference in styles for this one is mainly because graphic design
tends to primarily stick to current trends as opposed to using
historical ones. Stylistic differences are more on what the design is
meant to communicate, though they also tend to overlap a lot (look at
a product's ads... now look at the packaging... usually same color
scheme, graphic elements, etc...)



*********************************************************************
* *
* \ (__) Greg Symons <gsymons@******.temple.edu> *
* \\(oo) Seanchai/ and Follower of Bri\de *
* /-----\\\/ *
* / | (##) "Hearken closely and you shall hear the *
* * ||----||" sound of cows and bagpipes upon the heath" *
* ^^ ^^ *
*********************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 14:43:33 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Anime & Hentai Suggestions WAS: FASA in the movies
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> > > Try Cybercity Oedo 808 - quite shadowrun-ny.
> > What's it about? I haven't even heard of it before.
> A Bladerunner-type world done manga-style - the cops are ex-criminals
> who are forced by a wedlock-style collar to obey (and enforce) the
> law... etc etc. Monofilament whips, vampires, and orbital platforms...

Sounds interesting. I'll have to check it out.

> > > > Wicked City is heacier on the mystical side, but
> > > > it's a bit hentai.
> > > Nah... not enough tentacles... ;)
> > I don't even wanna know.-tryin' to get rid of memories of
> > Urotsukidoji(sp?)-
> What are you talking about?! Urotsukidoji rocks!

Yeah, sure. Have you had your medication today?
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 14:44:58 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Anime & Hentai Suggestions
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> > >What are you talking about?! Urotsukidoji rocks!
> > How long have you been in the hospital? B>]#
> Eight weeks, but that's irrelevant. Urotsukidoji rocks. :)
> (All my male friends were totally grossed out and couldn't keep
> watching... I was sitting there going 'yeah, this is cool'... my friends
> have never looked at me the same since.)

I wonder why.-wonders what the attraction of demons with 10 foot long
penises is-
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 15:05:28 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Skills
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> Or just be patient and wait until SR3 comes out, since we are no longer
> using a skill web, or so it has been foretold...

Whyzat?
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 15:10:26 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Thieving
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Okay, guys, another silly rules question. Trying to work up an NPC who's a
> second-story man and a pickpocket. Climbing rules and skills I can figure
> out, and he's got stealth, but how would you handle something like picking a
> lock or lifting someone's credstick? And please don't refer me to
> SHADOWBEAT...I've already looked. <g>

Have you looked at Electronics? IIRC, it has a Maglock's specialty.
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 15:21:11 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: Location
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Jus' outta curiousity, are there any SR players in the VA area? I
haven't had much luck with findin' a group. :(
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 15:16:27 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Rigger 2 Fuel Economy
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> Speaking of t-birds, where do smugglers KEEP them? Surely you dont park
> them in your garage in Seattle... perhaps semi-permanant mobile camps up in
> the mountains? Maybe you pay a fee or something to park the bird at a
> shadow truckstop or something? T:SH although helpful as far as smuggling
> goes, could stand a bit more detail on the t-bird stuff.

T:SH??
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 14:46:30 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Rigger 2 Fuel Economy
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>> T:SH although helpful as far as smuggling
>> goes, could stand a bit more detail on the t-bird stuff.
>
>T:SH??

Target: Smuggler's Havens, the most book put out by FASA.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 13:04:42 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Paul Wynter (Seraph)" <seraph@********.COM>
Subject: Re Location
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01BDBE16.1D289A00"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BDBE16.1D289A00
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<Jus' outta curiousity, are there any SR players in the VA area? I
<haven't had much luck with findin' a group. :(


Speaking of groups: I'm looking for players in the Glendale, Ca. =
area. Good players are hard to find...:(
______________________________________________________
seraph@********.com
______________________________________________________
Flappity, floppity, flip,
The mouse on the mobius strip;
The strip revolved, The mouse dissolved
In a chronodimensional skip

------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BDBE16.1D289A00
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=Content-Type><TITLE>C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft =
Shared\Stationery\Dark River.htm</TITLE><BASE
href="file://C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft =
Shared\Stationery\">
<STYLE></STYLE>

<META content='"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=GENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY background="">
<DIV>&lt;Jus' outta curiousity, are there any SR players in the VA =
area?&nbsp;
I<BR>&lt;haven't had much luck with findin' a group. :(</DIV>
<DIV>
<CENTER>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV align=left>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">Speaking
of groups: I'm looking for players in the Glendale, Ca. area. Good =
players
<EM>are</EM> hard to
find...:(<BR>______________________________________________________ =
<BR><A
href="mailto:seraph@********.com">seraph@********.com</A>
<BR>______________________________________________________ =
<BR>Flappity,
floppity, flip, <BR>The mouse on the mobius strip; <BR>The strip =
revolved,
The mouse dissolved <BR>In a chronodimensional
skip</BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></CENTER></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BDBE16.1D289A00--
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 16:17:20 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Dhl9@***.COM
Subject: Re: SR3 Doubts
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-01 18:39:17 EDT, you write:

> Sounds like us here in Omaha, Nebraska; people from back east think we
> still have cattle in the streets and hostile native americans camped on
> the outskirts of town...
>

Same thing here in Columbus, Ohio. A football recruit came in from LA to visit
Ohio State. He said he fully expected to see livestock on the streets. This is
the 15th largest city in the United States. There is population of of 730,000
people yet Columbus is still called "Cowtown".
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 16:29:58 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Dhl9@***.COM
Subject: License plates
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Corps are extraterritorial. Would any governmental or law enforcement entity
have records of their vehicles? If a player has a Lone Star contact, what
comes up on a vehicle check? I think Corp, private, unknown, restricted, no
record, or something like that would come up.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 15:31:31 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: SR3 Doubts
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>> Sounds like us here in Omaha, Nebraska; people from back east think
>> we still have cattle in the streets....
>
>Same thing here in Columbus, Ohio. A football recruit came in from LA
>to visit Ohio State. He said he fully expected to see livestock on the
>streets. This is the 15th largest city in the United States. There is
>population of of 730,000 people yet Columbus is still called "Cowtown".

Amarillo has 180,000 people. Couple of people from NYC were coming into
town; I was asked the other day if we at least had a McDonald's in town so
they'd have someplace familiar to eat.

There are also the ones who expect gunfights in the streets, a la
GUNSMOKE...and are disappointed when they don't get it.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 16:44:28 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Collins <einan@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: Re Location
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

><Jus' outta curiousity, are there any SR players in the VA area? I
><haven't had much luck with findin' a group. :(
>
>
> Speaking of groups: I'm looking for players in the Glendale, Ca. area.
>Good players are hard to find...:(


Oh what the heck while we're at it I just moved to Atlanta Ga. last
month. Any SR Players round here, I've found two and they seem decent and
moved with another but a couple more would be nice.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 16:45:58 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Collins <einan@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: SR3 Doubts
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

>>> Sounds like us here in Omaha, Nebraska; people from back east think
>>> we still have cattle in the streets....
>Amarillo has 180,000 people. Couple of people from NYC were coming into
>town; I was asked the other day if we at least had a McDonald's in town so
>they'd have someplace familiar to eat.
>
>There are also the ones who expect gunfights in the streets, a la
>GUNSMOKE...and are disappointed when they don't get it.
>


No you have to go to NY city or maybe LA for that. :)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 16:35:33 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Dhl9@***.COM
Subject: Re: Thieving
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-02 11:19:08 EDT, you write:

> Does losing a finger, a la the Yakuza, have any major
> game effects, or is it mostly a role-playing issue?
>

For me it would be a roleplaying issue but it could be a one he wants to think
about. If he doesn't do a good job of hiding it he is going to be broadcasting
his associations. Does he want to have everyone know that about him?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 16:50:26 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Collins <einan@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: License plates
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

>Corps are extraterritorial. Would any governmental or law enforcement entity
>have records of their vehicles? If a player has a Lone Star contact, what
>comes up on a vehicle check? I think Corp, private, unknown, restricted, no
>record, or something like that would come up.
>

I would think they would just use the plates issued by the local
government as corps don't have enough territory to need them. Now all
that may be contained on the information would be the fact that it is
regestered to such and such corp but to know who had that car on a given
day would require getting into the corp motor pool database. Sort of like
cars registered to rental agencies you can find out who it is regestered
to but you need to go to the rental company to find out who rented it.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 15:39:27 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Thieving
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>> Does losing a finger, a la the Yakuza, have any major
>> game effects, or is it mostly a role-playing issue?
>
>For me it would be a roleplaying issue but it could be a one he wants to
>think about. If he doesn't do a good job of hiding it he is going to be
>broadcasting his associations. Does he want to have everyone know that
>about him?

Oh, he's not a yak, he's just missing a finger (ring finger, right hand)
after an occupation-related accident. I was just curious if anyone thought
it would require any kind of game penalty. My personal feeling was, "No,
not really," but I thought I'd get more than one opinion on the matter.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 15:41:21 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: SR3 Doubts
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>>There are also the ones who expect gunfights in the streets, a la
>>GUNSMOKE...and are disappointed when they don't get it.
>
>No you have to go to NY city or maybe LA for that. :)

Well, people think that because we're in Texas, we all wear cowboy hats and
boots, ride horses, and wear six-shooters on our belts.

I'm just trying to figure out what they put in the water in those places
that induces this kind of delusional state.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 16:57:47 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Collins <einan@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: SR3 Doubts
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

>>>There are also the ones who expect gunfights in the streets, a la
>>>GUNSMOKE...and are disappointed when they don't get it.
>>
>>No you have to go to NY city or maybe LA for that. :)
>
>Well, people think that because we're in Texas, we all wear cowboy hats and
>boots, ride horses, and wear six-shooters on our belts.
>
>I'm just trying to figure out what they put in the water in those places
>that induces this kind of delusional state.
>
Well I must point out that there are a great many Texans who have moved
out of state who go to great lengths to maintain that illusion. Of course
most people expect me to talk like JFK since I come from Boston.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 22:38:07 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jose Mondejar <jomonbre@***.UPV.ES>
Subject: Hi again. I'm back :)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hello. It's been some months since I had to leave the list. I had no
internet access from home and a very limited time to access it
from the university. But now I've got a modem and a job to pay the
phone bill. :)

So, now, what have I missed in the last months?
--
Jose
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 22:47:39 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Thomas Faßnacht <Arkane@***********.NET>
Subject: Sperethiel Dictionary
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Is there any source book or web-site with a sperethiel Dictionary?

Arkane
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 16:04:53 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Sperethiel Dictionary
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>Is there any source book or web-site with a sperethiel Dictionary?

Dunno about a web site, but to the best of my knowledge we've not been shown
very much Sperethiel, certainly not enough to make a dictionary. There are
some tidbits in TIR TAIRNGIRE, and there might be a few more in TIR NA NOG
(which I really need to sit down and read one of these days).

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 17:17:59 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-02 05:57:50 EDT, you write:

> > For those of us non-mercs or military men, define a ghillie suit.
>
> A camouflage suit with strips of clothing and pieces of camouflage
> netting sewn on. Local vegetation is added onto (into) the suit so
> that if done well, the sniper wearing it becomes just about
> invisible from very close by. (A Dutch magazine did an article on
> Dutch Army snipers a few months ago. There was one "spot the
> sniper" picture in the article, with a comment from the author
> that he'd had to ask the sniper to stand up a few times so he
> knew where to point his camera. This was at a distance of maybe
> 3 meters, judging from the photo.)

You know, given that level of effectiveness with plain old cloth, IMO trying
to improve a ghillie suit with RP is sorta worthless... what would be
worthwhile, though, is to improve it against other forms of detection,
especially thermo and lowlight, which likely more than a few soldiers are
going to have naturally... after all, what good does it do to disappear into
the background of normal vision if a troll or dwarf can pick you out because
your heat signature looks like a goddamned beacon.

Hey, I just had a thought. If someone with thermographic vision (be it
through natural eyes or cyberware) looks through an optical image magnifier
(not electronic), will they still be able to see in the thermo spectrum?

Nexx
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 17:09:56 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: paool <paool@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Thieving
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Okay, guys, another silly rules question. Trying to work up an NPC
who's a
> second-story man and a pickpocket. Climbing rules and skills I can
figure
> out, and he's got stealth, but how would you handle something like
picking a
> lock or lifting someone's credstick? And please don't refer me to
> SHADOWBEAT...I've already looked. <g>

On a otherwise worthless page in Cybertechnology, (page 29) it metions a
neat toy to cram in your finger. ExpertPicks. Just place the lockpick in
the lock, and it does all the hard work for you. While it's rating is
very limited (just a 3), I'd imagine you could create a more powerful,
non-cyber version.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 16:21:59 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Shadowrunner <nocturnal@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Location
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Bai Shen wrote:
>
> Jus' outta curiousity, are there any SR players in the VA area? I
> haven't had much luck with findin' a group. :(

If I were from Virginia, I would be there in a minute. Unfortunately, I'm from St. Louis
(MO).. If anyone is from around this area, feel free to call: 821-1749 :)

Nocturnal
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 17:31:44 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shamanic Mask
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 98-08-02 11:11:18 EDT, you write:

> Seems to me that it would work much the same way for a physad. If he's not
> straining himself, but is still using his powers, then the mask would show
> up a little bit. If he's going full-bore, giving everything he's got, then
> the mask would be much more pronounced.

However, for some PADs, they use their powers every second they're alive.
Enhanced physical attributes, upped senses and reflexes, even astral
perception would lead them to take some minor physical appearances of their
totem at all times.

Nexx
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 17:32:25 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Thieving
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-02 11:18:59 EDT, you write:

> Another question, probably answered in UNDERWORLD someplace, but I've not
> been able to find it: Does losing a finger, a la the Yakuza, have any
major
> game effects, or is it mostly a role-playing issue?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 17:35:13 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Thieving
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-02 11:18:59 EDT, you write:

> Another question, probably answered in UNDERWORLD someplace, but I've not
> been able to find it: Does losing a finger, a la the Yakuza, have any
major
> game effects, or is it mostly a role-playing issue?

First off, sorry about the blank reply.

I would say it would depend on which finger was lost. Losing you ring finger
is likely not going to mean much more than a world of pain and a difficulty
typing (while typing this message, I discovered I use my ring finger quite a
bit more than I thought for typing). Losing index (read trigger) fingers is
really going to screw you up until you get used to it (if you live that long),
and losing thumbs mean you're pretty much screwed until you get a replacement,
be it vat grown or built on a bench.

Nexx
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 09:31:39 +1200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: Thermal vision through optical magnifiers
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Quoth Nexx Many-Scars (0918 3-8-98 NZT):

>Hey, I just had a thought. If someone with thermographic vision (be it
through natural eyes or cyberware) looks through >an optical image
magnifier (not electronic), will they still be able to see in the thermo
spectrum?

A question I've wondered about myself. IMHO, no; the Opti-Mag can't
enhance thermal emissions. You can see the guy's enhanced image in the
normal light-spectrum through the scope, you can see him (at a long
distance) on your internal IR, but trying to see thermo through an
optical magnifier gains you nothing (the image of the guy you see
through the scope has no heat-signature).

Danyel Woods - 9604801@********.ac.nz
'No, I'm Chaos and he's Mayhem. We're a double act.'
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 22:33:59 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Thomas Faßnacht <Arkane@***********.NET>
Subject: Sperethiel Dictionary
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Is there any source book or web-site with a Sperethiel dictionary ?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 17:45:34 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 98-08-02 11:23:08 EDT, you write:

> >You will be spared no such thing, as none of us when we made our mistakes
> >and/or goof-ups were.
>
> Whatever. Feel free to appoint yourself self-righteous whatever; I'll feel
> free to ignore you.

You know, I find it really ironic that you're making snide comments about him
being self-righteous, especially in that tone. Its like saying feel free to
mess up your life with alcohol, then drinking down a bottle of Jack Daniels.

Now, I'll admit I know jack shit about physics (a course I am rigorously
avoiding if at all possible), camoflauge, and solar power, but let me remind
you of something. From what I've read (which is again, not that much... I
can't seem to find R2), SR canon makes it possible to use more than just
yellow-light collection, and to keep solar collection panels concealed while
they're in use. You argue that its impossible. Ok, if you want it that way
in your games, fine, but remember that the only thing most of us have in
common here is _the_rules_as_they_are_laid_out_. We don't paly in the same
games. Quite a few of us don't have enough of a physics background to argue
with what is printed in FASA about solar collectors, just as many people also
don't have the metaphysics background to argue with what is printed in FASA
about astral space.

In short, don't quote house rules (IOW: anythnig that goes against FASA
canon), unless they are identified as such (e.g. in our games here, our house
rule is) in an arguement, it makes you look stupid. Not because the modern
world says you're wrong, but because the only thing we are sure to have in
common, FASA's game world, says you are.

Nexx
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 16:47:55 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Shamanic Mask
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>> Seems to me that it would work much the same way for a physad.
>
>However, for some PADs, they use their powers every second they're alive.

Hey, no system's perfect. Would you believe that in the past nine years,
I've never played an adept myself or played in a game that featured one? I
have, therefore, never explored the implications. Just one man's WAG....

>Enhanced physical attributes, upped senses and reflexes, even astral
>perception would lead them to take some minor physical appearances of
>their totem at all times.

I don't suppose "You rolls the dice and you takes your chances" is quite the
answer you're looking for, is it? <g>

Okay, for something like, say, enhanced attributes, the mask only appears
when they start pushing it. If they're just doing day-to-day things
(walking, jogging, carrying the groceries, things of that nature), nothing
happens. If they start getting into the territory where they're doing
things that they couldn't have done before they enhanced those attributes
(picking up the tail end of the car because the sammy can't find the jack to
change that flat, say), then it starts showing up, with the degree of
appearance being how much they're exerting themselves.

The only show the mask when they're astrally perceiving.

That's how I'd do it, until I found some other way to do it that was better.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 16:44:50 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Sperethiel Dictionary
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>Is there any source book or web-site with a Sperethiel dictionary ?

Didn't you just ask this half an hour ago?
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 22:55:59 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Sperethiel Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <009f01bdbe5f$4aa2dd80$e491fecc@********> from "Patrick
Goodman"
at Aug 2, 98 04:44:50 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did Patrick Goodman hastily scribble thusly...
|
|>Is there any source book or web-site with a Sperethiel dictionary ?
|
|Didn't you just ask this half an hour ago?
|

Yup. He did.
Maybe he isn't aware of the shadowrn settings, and has norepro set?
Or maybe it's a duplicate mail from a screwey mailserver?

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 17:59:06 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shamanic Mask
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-02 17:49:05 EDT, you write:

> >> Seems to me that it would work much the same way for a physad.
> >
> >However, for some PADs, they use their powers every second they're alive.
>
> Hey, no system's perfect. Would you believe that in the past nine years,
> I've never played an adept myself or played in a game that featured one? I
> have, therefore, never explored the implications. Just one man's WAG....

Weird, but not completely beyond my capability to understand <g>

> >Enhanced physical attributes, upped senses and reflexes, even astral
> >perception would lead them to take some minor physical appearances of
> >their totem at all times.
>
> I don't suppose "You rolls the dice and you takes your chances" is quite
the
> answer you're looking for, is it? <g>

Actually, in addition to a genuine desire to know, I want to get a
conversation started that I have a chance in hell of making sense in (given
that I know nothing about anime, guns, camoflauge, or most of the other topics
that are floating around).

<snip suggestions for the mask>
> That's how I'd do it, until I found some other way to do it that was
better.

Good ideas... this is going to lead to some interesting descriptions, one
thinks.

Nexx
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 17:00:08 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Sperethiel Dictionary
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>|>Is there any source book or web-site with a Sperethiel dictionary ?
>|
>|Didn't you just ask this half an hour ago?
>
>Yup. He did.

So I'm not going completely mad. This is a bonus.

>Maybe he isn't aware of the shadowrn settings, and has norepro set?

Possible, but considering he got at least one reply to his original post (I
posted it), I think he'd have seen something in time to have avoided a
response.

>Or maybe it's a duplicate mail from a screwey mailserver?

I thought that at first, too, but one's signed "Arkane," and the other
isn't.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 17:02:48 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Bell <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: SR3 Doubts
In-Reply-To: <199808022034.QAA25021@****.atl.bellsouth.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 04:45 PM 8/2/98 -0400, Steve Collins wrote:
# >>> Sounds like us here in Omaha, Nebraska; people from back east think
# >>> we still have cattle in the streets....
# >Amarillo has 180,000 people. Couple of people from NYC were coming into
# >town; I was asked the other day if we at least had a McDonald's in town so
# >they'd have someplace familiar to eat.
# >
# >There are also the ones who expect gunfights in the streets, a la
# >GUNSMOKE...and are disappointed when they don't get it.
# >
#
#
# No you have to go to NY city or maybe LA for that. :)

seterotypes work both ways

YES!
--
/- justin@************.com ---------------- justin@******.net -\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 17:05:35 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Shamanic Mask
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>> Would you believe that in the past nine years, I've
>> never played an adept myself or played in a game that featured one?
>
>Weird, but not completely beyond my capability to understand <g>

They say things like that about me. I mean, I think trolls are anorexic and
dwarves are overweight, too, so....

>Actually, in addition to a genuine desire to know, I want to get a
>conversation started that I have a chance in hell of making sense in
>(given that I know nothing about anime, guns, camoflauge, or most of
>the other topics that are floating around).

Why not fake it? That's what half those guys are doing anyway. (You can
generally spot the ones that know what they're talking about; it's the one's
that are indignant or very good actors that you have to watch out for.)

Actually, though, I understand. I'd be more than willing to contribute
something useful if a topic came up on which I had the faintest clue.

>Good ideas... this is going to lead to some interesting descriptions,
>one thinks.

I do what I can. I think, just to familiarize myself with the concepts,
that I might make one of the NPCs in the campaign I'm working on a physad
rather than a cybernaut of some kind.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 10:05:23 +1200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: Shamanic Mask
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Quoth Mike Bobroff (0103 3-8-98 NZT):

>The more power any magically active individual cranks out (especially
>initiates) the more obvious the mask (as even hermetics have one too)
becomes.
>What I take that to me is that the number of successes on the caster's
part is
>in relation to their unmodified Magic attribute. The closer the
success test
>is to the Magic attribute the more apparent the mask. Go above the
Magic
>attribute and the mask begins to become really noticeable.

Okay, not a problem; it should help hold people's attention when that
Wasp shaman starts gettin' _really_ nasty <g>.
BTW: does anyone have any (semi-)serious suggestions as to what the
shamanic mask would look like for a Jedi? (Name a character out of the
movies and I'll probably go looking for a pair of pliers and a
blowtorch...<g>)

>Oh, K and I have agreed upon something about the SR3 rule about the max
number
>of successes a spell can have ... instead of the force of the spell ...
we are
>going to use the Magic attribute (Essence + Grade, only) to determine
the max
>number of success possible.

I realise this is probably a silly question, but won't that be even more
reason to learn spells at (Magic) or less? I mean, if you got better
results from taking Physical Drain when casting a spell, it was still
worth it. But if you're an uninitiated magician (Magic 6), what would
be the point of learning a Force 7 spell (no fetish/exclusive bonuses)
if you can only get a maximum of 6 successes? You'd end up taking
Physical damage for 7 successes that act like 6; it wouldn't be worth
the pain.

Danyel Woods - 9604801@********.ac.nz
'No, I'm Chaos and he's Mayhem. We're a double act.'
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 19:02:55 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Dhl9@***.COM
Subject: Re: License plates
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-02 16:40:19 EDT, you write:

> Now all
> that may be contained on the information would be the fact that it is
> regestered to such and such corp but to know who had that car on a given
> day would require getting into the corp motor pool database. Sort of like
> cars registered to rental agencies you can find out who it is regestered
> to but you need to go to the rental company to find out who rented it.

The question is, would Mr. Johnson want anyone to even know that much. Who
he/she works for can be a valuable piece of data.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 17:41:07 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
In-Reply-To: <199808022119.PAA12334@******.carl.org> from "Nexx
Many-Scars" at
Aug 2, 98 05:17:59 pm
Content-Type: text

Nexx Many-Scars wrote:
/
/ Hey, I just had a thought. If someone with thermographic vision (be it
/ through natural eyes or cyberware) looks through an optical image magnifier
/ (not electronic), will they still be able to see in the thermo spectrum?

AFAIK optics refract the light spectrum into the infrared and ultraviolet.
So, IMO, yes a basic optic device (binoculars) would work for someone with
thermographic vision. Of course, I'm not 100% certain about that :)

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 09:50:09 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
In-Reply-To: <199808022341.RAA13702@******.carl.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

David Buehrer writes:
> AFAIK optics refract the light spectrum into the infrared and ultraviolet.
> So, IMO, yes a basic optic device (binoculars) would work for someone with
> thermographic vision. Of course, I'm not 100% certain about that :)

Different wavelengths get refracted differently by an optical device. As
such, standard optical devices may not work for thermo (especially when it
comes to refocusing the light afterwards). But certainly a set of lenses
optimised for different wavelengths could be made.

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 00:56:51 +0100
Reply-To: shadowrn@********.itribe.net
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
In-Reply-To: <199808022341.RAA13702@******.carl.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0

In article <199808022341.RAA13702@******.carl.org>, David Buehrer
<dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG> writes
>Nexx Many-Scars wrote:
>/
>/ Hey, I just had a thought. If someone with thermographic vision (be it
>/ through natural eyes or cyberware) looks through an optical image magnifier
>/ (not electronic), will they still be able to see in the thermo spectrum?
>
>AFAIK optics refract the light spectrum into the infrared and ultraviolet.
>So, IMO, yes a basic optic device (binoculars) would work for someone with
>thermographic vision. Of course, I'm not 100% certain about that :)

I don't see why not, provided the optical device in use was using clear
optics with no enhancements. For instance if the character wore glasses
in order to read, then their thermo/low light vision would still work,
the same IMO applies to binoculars and telescopes. However, I do not
believe that natural vision enhancement would apply through something
like a starlight scope or thermo binoculars for the simple reason they
already provide what the characters eyes normally do, thereby overriding
the natural abilities.

--
Avenger
http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk/index.htm
(Newbies Survival Guide to Stk & SR stuff)
http://freespace.virgin.net/p.siems/index.htm
(UK Survival Guide, SR Guide to the Oceans.)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 20:29:36 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Thieving
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

In a message dated 8/2/98 1:42:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time, remo@***.NET=
writes:

> Oh, he's not a yak, he's just missing a finger (ring finger, right hand=
)
> after an occupation-related accident. I was just curious if anyone th=
ought
> it would require any kind of game penalty. My personal feeling was, "=
No,
> not really," but I thought I'd get more than one opinion on the matter=
.
if he is already missing a finger, get him a cyber finger (essence .1 may=
be?) and mount a fingertip compartment with a set of ExpertPicks™
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 20:33:00 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shamanic Mask
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 8/2/98 2:32:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Nexx3@***.COM
writes:

> > Seems to me that it would work much the same way for a physad. If he's
not
> > straining himself, but is still using his powers, then the mask would
> show
> > up a little bit. If he's going full-bore, giving everything he's got,
> then
> > the mask would be much more pronounced.
>
> However, for some PADs, they use their powers every second they're alive.
> Enhanced physical attributes, upped senses and reflexes, even astral
> perception would lead them to take some minor physical appearances of their
> totem at all times.

Assuming also that the physad is a SHAMANIC Physad, could you use the "mask"
as a Geas. Perhaps whenever the power is used, the animal sign appears.

Also, how do you apply Idol's mask for those that have one.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 20:36:54 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jett <zmjett@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Thieving
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I have a character who's missing his pinkie finger and half his ring
finger on his left hand from a woodcutting accident. It doesn't bother
him, really. I guess it would depend on which hand was dominant, etc.
And yes, I have all my characters assigned. Jett, like me, and Cinder,
are left-handed. The rest are right-handed.
I knew a man who was missing his entire right thumb, and he got along
quite well. In fact, I knew him for several weeks before I even realized
that he was missing a thumb, which goes to show you just how well he got
along without it. Of course, he never tried to fire a gun, to my
knowledge, without the digit in question...


--Jett

<*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>


"I'll make this clear, that I'm just here for backup. And to offer the
occasional advice or insult."
--Jett, on being an NPC

Behold the mighty sonic scream of the Jett!

http://www.scifi-fantasy.com/~zmjett/shadow.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 20:39:01 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: License plates
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Note also that they have referenced bar codes before. This allows them to
ticket cars for speeding and such without having to actually look at a license
plate.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 21:11:20 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Rigger 2 Fuel Economy
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> >> T:SH although helpful as far as smuggling
> >> goes, could stand a bit more detail on the t-bird stuff.
> >T:SH??
> Target: Smuggler's Havens, the most book put out by FASA.

The most what book?
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 20:17:50 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Goth <xaos@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Location
In-Reply-To: <35C4BC27.1727@**********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Jus' outta curiousity, are there any SR players in the VA area? I
> haven't had much luck with findin' a group. :(

You might want to check out this website: www.accessdenied.com

They have a listing service thingie where you can locate players of various
games. Good luck!

-Dave-
xaos@*****.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 21:15:05 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Drew Curtis <dcurtis@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Rigger 2 Fuel Economy
In-Reply-To: <35C50E38.2E99@**********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Sun, 2 Aug 1998, Bai Shen wrote:

> > >> T:SH although helpful as far as smuggling
> > >> goes, could stand a bit more detail on the t-bird stuff.
> > >T:SH??
> > Target: Smuggler's Havens, the most book put out by FASA.
>
> The most what book?
> --

Not to put words in someone else's mouth, but I'd guess most recent
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 20:22:36 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Goth <xaos@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Sperethiel Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <00d201bdbe60$ee5f4200$e491fecc@********>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> So I'm not going completely mad. This is a bonus.
>

Ah, c'mon, Madness is fun! (I recommend "The House of Fun" much more than
the better known "Our House".)


<-Much OT blah blah snipped->

The helpful answer may be to check out Earthdawn. Not exactly an online
reference, but it's a start.

-Dave-
xaos@*****.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 20:42:36 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Sperethiel Dictionary
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>> So I'm not going completely mad. This is a bonus.
>
>Ah, c'mon, Madness is fun! (I recommend "The House of Fun" much
>more than the better known "Our House".)

Madness doesn't do it for me; matter of fact, having heard the bulk of their
output (I had a strange roomie in the Air Farce), I can honestly tell you
that the only song they've done that I liked was the aforementioned "Our
House." YMMV, of course.

>The helpful answer may be to check out Earthdawn. Not exactly an
>online reference, but it's a start.

Unless, of course, you're part of the camp that wants to disavow Earthdawn
as part of the Shadowrun universe. While I like the notion that this has
all happened before, and will happen again, I'm not too keen on ED.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 20:43:18 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Rigger 2 Fuel Economy
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>> > >T:SH??
>> > Target: Smuggler's Havens, the most book put out by FASA.
>>
>> The most what book?
>
>Not to put words in someone else's mouth, but I'd guess most recent

Bingo. There are days I wonder why I bother dealing in a medium that
requires so damn much typing....

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 21:14:02 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Bell <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Sperethiel Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <006101bdbe80$25afa000$8290fecc@********>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

# >The helpful answer may be to check out Earthdawn. Not exactly an
# >online reference, but it's a start.
#
# Unless, of course, you're part of the camp that wants to disavow Earthdawn
# as part of the Shadowrun universe. While I like the notion that this has
# all happened before, and will happen again, I'm not too keen on ED.

I could have sworn they have OFFICIALLY stated that it is
--
/- justin@************.com ---------------- justin@******.net -\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 21:18:50 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Sperethiel Dictionary
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

># Unless, of course, you're part of the camp that wants to disavow
># Earthdawn as part of the Shadowrun universe. While I like the
># notion that this has all happened before, and will happen again,
># I'm not too keen on ED.
>
>I could have sworn they have OFFICIALLY stated that it is

So? Doesn't mean I have to accept it, or use it as the history in my game.
I'm inclined to agree with something I think I read Mike Mulvihill saying,
about the ED/SR linkage being hastily added on. He didn't like it, but he's
stuck with it. I don't like it either, and I'm not stuck with it, so....

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 21:41:26 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Thieving
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

>> Oh, he's not a yak, he's just missing a finger (ring finger, right
>> hand) after an occupation-related accident.
>
>if he is already missing a finger, get him a cyber finger (essence .1
>maybe?) and mount a fingertip compartment with a set of ExpertPicks™

I doubt a finger would be an essence of .1 since a whole hand is .35, but I
could be wrong. Stranger things have happened.

And Thadis doesn't get the finger replaced for basically the same reasons
that a Yakuza kobun don't replace theirs. It's a reminder that he screwed
up along the way, and that there's a price for screwing up. That, and he's
deathly afraid of cyber.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 22:11:29 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wyrmy <elfman@******.COM>
Subject: Guess what!!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

It's that time.you know worse than when your evil relatives come
over.worse than when you had to clean up after the dog/cat/other had
diareha. Its time for me to ask the most infamous question of all.Not
can you ground through a quickening,or are physads better than sammies.
The question is: what is your favorite Totem.I'll start it off.
Roach is gottat be the coolest.that or beetle.
Roach:
+2 top illusion and manipulation spells
+2 to summon Roach trueform spirits.
Character:Dirty,unkempt,smelly is roach.it eats anything.thats about it.
Disadvantages:See above, also -2 for detection spells.

Beetle:
+2 for combat and manipulation spells
+2 for summoning beetle avatar spirits.
Character:Big, bad, viscious, and crazy.not afraid of anything.
Disadvantges:-2 for health spells.otherwise just look at character.
--
In past times, it was good to be part of a tribe family or club.
Welcome to 2057.The family is here.
Join The Hive.
I am Wyrmy. Watcht my hypnotic disco dance
And be afraid!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:14:13 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Guess what!!
In-Reply-To: <35C52A61.2D21@******.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Wyrmy writes:
> The question is: what is your favorite Totem.I'll start it off.
> Roach is gottat be the coolest.that or beetle.

Back, foul insect shaman!

Personally, my favorite Totem to roleplay is either Coyote (it's bloody
easy), or Gator (it gives me an excuse to sound like a Cajun, and also
consume lots of gumbo in game).

--
.sig deleted.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 22:25:24 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: William Ashe <wmashe@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Sperethiel Dictionary/ED-SR crossover's
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

-----Original Message-----
He didn't like it, but he's
>stuck with it. I don't like it either, and I'm not stuck with it, so....
>
>---


Now I sorta like the linkage ... it happens to be a very interesting way of
linking the two. It also saves starved for resources GM's (like me) from
having to generate one's own world to explain it all. What I have done is
assume that ED is SO far in the past that it really doesn't relate; only a
few major ... ahem ... threads relate. Most of the ED stuff that I throw
in is after magic has gotten to the point that the dragons have gone to
sleep, the other name givers are gone or dying out, and a lot of things are
memories or legends. In a future fiction story I have a great idea of
having the last king of Barsaive and an Ork scorcher get frozen in an Ice
Age glacier only to be found in 2058+ (gotta hate global warming). There
are a lot of ficition aspects that really could be fun to play with.

1) The last king enjoys being a "regular joe" no intrigues, no plots, no
knives on the backs from freinds ... just muggers

2) The ork scorcher looks at the rights that an ork has now and revels in
their social standing and decides to become a tremendous leader among them
... and in
***Spoiler For Secrets Of The Dragon***








turn teaches the orks in the Seattle area their ancient language.


I agree that trying to directly convert one to the other leads to a heck of
a lot of headaches, but using it as spice ... not to much or all you taste
is spice ... -Justin Wilson I ga-ron-tee::: is a good way to give your game
a lot of flavor with a little bit of work.


just my $0.02

Regards
Bright-Light
http://freeweb.pdq.net/wmashe/shadowrun.html
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 22:33:45 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <pedersje@******.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU>
Organization: Rose-Hulman Insitute of Technology
Subject: Re: Guess what!!
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Wyrmy wrote:
>
> It's that time.you know worse than when your evil relatives come
> over.worse than when you had to clean up after the dog/cat/other had
> diareha. Its time for me to ask the most infamous question of all.Not
> can you ground through a quickening,or are physads better than sammies.

Hmmm... The Wyrm has re-surfaced again. 'Tis not a good sign.

> The question is: what is your favorite Totem.I'll start it off.
> Roach is gottat be the coolest.that or beetle.

Grrrr... They have claimed the Wyrm! Retribution shall be wreaked upon the
Invae!
<readies quickened "Insect Barrier">
<prepares anchored "Detect Insect/Slay Insect" combo>
<sword drawn and readied, the shapeshifter-mage marches off to Chi-town to make
war>

;)

BTW, it's Wolf (as found in SR2, somewhere)

--
John Pederson otherwise known as Lyle Canthros, shapeshifter-mage
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes
convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe -- a
spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we
with our modest powers must feel humble."
--Albert Einstein
lobo1@****.com canthros1@***.com pedersje@******.rose-hulman.edu
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/4864 ICQ UIN 3190186
"I'm not fifty!" "SPOONMAN!!!" Number Two -- with a bullet!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 21:32:59 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Re: Guess what!!
In-Reply-To: <000101bdbe8c$ca472140$5e5211ac@********.mincom.oz.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> Personally, my favorite Totem to roleplay is either Coyote (it's bloody
> easy), or Gator (it gives me an excuse to sound like a Cajun, and also
> consume lots of gumbo in game).

Give me Shark any day...
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
Understanding is a three edged sword. - Kosh
What is best in life?
To Crush Your Enemies,
To See Them Driven Before You,
To Hear The Lamentation Of Their Women. -Conan
I Am The LAW! -JD
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:43:38 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Guess what!!
In-Reply-To: <19980803033336796.AAA316@******.interrural.net@*********.gj.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

GRANITE writes:
> > Personally, my favorite Totem to roleplay is either Coyote (it's bloody
> > easy), or Gator (it gives me an excuse to sound like a Cajun, and also
> > consume lots of gumbo in game).
>
> Give me Shark any day...

Shark actually tastes quite nice in gumbo...

--
.sig deleted
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 22:57:14 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wyrmy <elfman@******.COM>
Subject: (ot) a Wyrmy-tech bulletin!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I am not one of the invae ! stop pointing those swords and raid cans at
me!I barely survived the Bug city runs my GM inflicted!and whats worse,
all the rest of my team were turned into wasps(being a grade 20 iniate
helps push outh those nasty larvae).I finaly paid most of my bill off,
and now I can use the internet again! its time for a MAJOR bughunt
(Binder,Canthros,Bull and spike ,meet me in the usual place for,we have
a hive to exterminate!) well all I guess I can say is, "CHAAAAARGE!"
:^).
Wyrmy-the-bug-scared-p.o.ed-Wyrm-Druid.
--
-W
============================
If you are a dreamer come in,
If you are a dreeamer, a wisher,
A liar, a magic jelly bean buyer,
Come In!
-What should be the motto of all internet users.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 21:37:17 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Guess what!!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>

> > Personally, my favorite Totem to roleplay is either Coyote (it's bloody
> > easy), or Gator (it gives me an excuse to sound like a Cajun, and also
> > consume lots of gumbo in game).
>
> Give me Shark any day...


Interesting I never would have pegged you for a shark man Granite.

At any rate my favorite as always is Dog. (and for anyone who doesn't
already know do NOT get me started on a certain punk with the last name
Verner.)

;)

Caric-the-howlin'-mad-one
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 23:22:53 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Re: Guess what!!
In-Reply-To: <199808030442.VAA28020@******.primenet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

> > Give me Shark any day...
> Interesting I never would have pegged you for a shark man Granite.

There is lots of ROLEPlaying potential with Shark..Very matter of
fact..A lust for the hunt..A certain get down to business quality
that I like...

> At any rate my favorite as always is Dog. (and for anyone who doesn't
> already know do NOT get me started on a certain punk with the last name
> Verner.)

Who Sam? But Sam is such a nice guy [EG]
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
Understanding is a three edged sword. - Kosh
What is best in life?
To Crush Your Enemies,
To See Them Driven Before You,
To Hear The Lamentation Of Their Women. -Conan
I Am The LAW! -JD
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 23:01:07 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Guess what!!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>

> > > Give me Shark any day...
> > Interesting I never would have pegged you for a shark man Granite.
>
> There is lots of ROLEPlaying potential with Shark..Very matter of
> fact..A lust for the hunt..A certain get down to business quality
> that I like...

That's cool I can understand the appeal of shark definitely, but i'm still
surprised that it's your fav.

> > At any rate my favorite as always is Dog. (and for anyone who doesn't
> > already know do NOT get me started on a certain punk with the last name
> > Verner.)
>
> Who Sam? But Sam is such a nice guy [EG]

<Cartman>

I am so pissed off right now!!!!!

</Cartman>

:)

Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 02:32:29 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Eureka! - ShadowRN "Who's Who" Deciphered!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

AHAH! I've finally got it!

After MONTHS of beating my head against a wall trying to figure out how to
make a "Who's Who" for this list that ...

A) Doesn't Suck.
B) Doesn't look like is was built by an AOL-er on crack.
C) Actually manages to cover everyone whether or not they have a photo, etc.

I have finally found the format I want, and learned enough HMTL that I
SHOULD be able to make it work!!! ;-)
Better yet, l'm being moved to first shift in the near future so I'll have
time to acually DO the job!!!

<Can you tell I'm very happy now?!?!?!!>

So here's the deal, If you want to be included in the ShadowRN Mailing List
"Who's Who" - Not Ready for Prime Runners page, do the following.

1) Send me an email with the SUBJECT line reading ...

WHO

2) If you have a photo of YOU (any format), attach it to said email.
3) If you have a sound file of YOU speaking (any format) attach that too.
4) Make sure that your attachments are all zipped and very, very small, OK?
Let's not bomb my mailbox into oblivion! The first joker that sends me a 1
meg bitmap gets sentanced to hard time in Bull's Trousers!
4.5) Even if you sent me one of these files at an earlier date, please do so
once again. In the last three months, my HD has died TWICE! All my data from
before is so much digital toast!

5) Fill out the following questionaire as completely as possible.

----------

Name:
Email:
I live in:
How I got started in this crazy hobby:
Games I have played/owned:
Favorite Games:
Favorite Shadowrun ...
Archetype:
Totem:
Weapon:
Spell:
Race:
Vehicle:
FASA Character: (ie. Sam Verner, Dodger, etc.)
Other
Other Hobbies:
Computer Games.
Other stuff:

----------

6) Send the whole shebang to me!

Thanks again! This time I think I've got all the bugs ironed out! (Kind of
like Chicago, right?)

Steven A. Tinner - who is feeling more at peace with SR than he has in a
loooong time!
bluewizard@*****.com
http://listen.to/Tinner
"I'm the kind of guy who laughs at a funeral ..." - BNL
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 02:47:30 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shamanic Mask
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 8/2/1998 10:12:23 AM US Eastern Standard Time, remo@***.NET
writes:

> >The more power any magically active individual cranks out (especially
> >initiates) the more obvious the mask (as even hermetics have one too)
> >becomes.
>
> Okay, here's an interesting notion. Where the heck did you get the idea
> that hermetics have a mask, too? What do they get a mask of? Merlin?
>
> It's an interesting notion, like I said, but I can't find any support for
it
> in the books.
>
A "mask" per se, no they do not have, but they do have a "manifesting
trait"
to their magical signature. It's in some of the SR books, but most of it is
actually optional rules anyway.

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 00:50:53 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Re: Guess what!!
In-Reply-To: <199808030610.XAA16668@******.primenet.com>
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> That's cool I can understand the appeal of shark definitely, but i'm still
> surprised that it's your fav.

I do have a certain lust for the hunt..There is nothing like ligning
up your sights on some guy and putting one right in the middle of his
chest...Oh I like to go after the fury kind of game as well..But I
suppose I do have a sort of blood lust...[EG]


--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
Understanding is a three edged sword. - Kosh
What is best in life?
To Crush Your Enemies,
To See Them Driven Before You,
To Hear The Lamentation Of Their Women. -Conan
I Am The LAW! -JD
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 01:49:27 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
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-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Date: Sunday, August 02, 1998 5:58 AM
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium

>> Again ... if you put a "sun cell" system into a suit, you eliminate
its
>> camouflage potential. A nice diffuse low power laser will cause you to
>> light up like a flare. All I have to do is look for a reflectance curve
>> that peaks around 650 nanometers ... that will stand out nicely against
the
>> chlorophyll curve of the surrounding vegetation.


If that "suncell" is a typical (selenium based?) solar cell array. Funny
you mention Chlophyll- why not base a electricity producing solar collector
technology around it? With SR tech, it should not be to hard to engineer. At
least in some conditions, it would quite useful to the military, and, as it
would likely be largely "self growing", with some mechanical / electrical
integration, it would be cheap to boot.

Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 01:53:33 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Thermo lenses (was Re: Camo and Ruthenium)
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-----Original Message-----
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Date: Sunday, August 02, 1998 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium

>Hey, I just had a thought. If someone with thermographic vision (be it
>through natural eyes or cyberware) looks through an optical image magnifier
>(not electronic), will they still be able to see in the thermo spectrum?


You mean an optical telscope, right? The answer is a fim maybe.
Obviously, thermographic imaging systems use lenses, so lenses work on themo
light. You can alos load normal slr cameras with IR film. However, I think
for some wavelengths (the longesat ones), you need special glass and coatings,
low reflectivity, I'd guess, as glass bounces low length IR.

Mongoose
PS- hows my new mailer? Giving anybody (besides me) trouble?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 02:52:01 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
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In a message dated 8/2/1998 11:30:26 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK writes:

> |> |Sorry, but K is correct ... and if the rules change then we -ALL- must
> |adapt
> |> Why? I still use 1stEd...
> |(*THWAP*)
> |Wrong rules Spike...
> Not for me they're not...
>
Spike, I was referring to the "FAQ/Listserv" rules/guidelines, NOT the game
guidelines. THAT is what we are referring to. I am NOT saying that SR First
Ed are wrong rules, they are just older ones :)

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:56:29 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
In-Reply-To: <05fa01bdbebc$70cc2cc0$5fbbadce@****>
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> array. Funny
> you mention Chlophyll- why not base a electricity producing solar
> collector
> technology around it? With SR tech, it should not be to hard to
> engineer.

If SR tech could use photosynthesis-like reactions to produce electricity,
they would be using it. It wouldn't be a cute little utility with little
applicable use. It would certainly nudge out standard solar panels.

--
Duct tape is like the Force: There's a Light side, a Dark side, and it
binds the Universe together.
Robert Watkins -- robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 02:58:07 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Rigger 2 Fuel Economy
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In a message dated 8/2/1998 2:37:19 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
baishen@**********.COM writes:

>
> T:SH??
>
Target: Smuggler's Haven

Newest of the Source books ...

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 01:57:50 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Eric M. Farmer" <efarmer@********.CC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
In-Reply-To: <62f8fe6b.35c49089@***.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Adam ... chill out some ... you are getting me angry by calling the game
> system unrealistic ... *duh* .... the game is a game ... it is not even real

Yeah, go Herc! The tension in this list was getting too high. Remember,
just because we don't agree with doesn't mean you can't ignore us.

Later,
Eric Farmer
efarmer@********.cc.edu
http://www.cc.edu/~efarmer/
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 03:06:55 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Force vs. Success (Re: Shamanic Mask)
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In a message dated 8/2/1998 5:10:23 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
9604801@********.AC.NZ writes:

> >Oh, K and I have agreed upon something about the SR3 rule about the max
> number
> >of successes a spell can have ... instead of the force of the spell ...
> we are
> >going to use the Magic attribute (Essence + Grade, only) to determine
> the max
> >number of success possible.
>
> I realise this is probably a silly question, but won't that be even more
> reason to learn spells at (Magic) or less? I mean, if you got better
> results from taking Physical Drain when casting a spell, it was still
> worth it. But if you're an uninitiated magician (Magic 6), what would
> be the point of learning a Force 7 spell (no fetish/exclusive bonuses)
> if you can only get a maximum of 6 successes? You'd end up taking
> Physical damage for 7 successes that act like 6; it wouldn't be worth
> the pain.

In many instances, you are very correct. However, please understand that in
the games here, it is NOT uncommon for a character (aka, US the PC's) to
encounter someone with a spell barrier or inside a Lodge or Opposing Ward,
which really screws up the chances of a spell reaching the target unless it is
at a higher force. Also, in many instances, Manipulation Magic does allow for
some extensions of armor to assist the target in some manner.

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 03:09:25 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shamanic Mask
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In a message dated 8/2/1998 7:36:07 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
Schizi@***.COM writes:

> Assuming also that the physad is a SHAMANIC Physad, could you use the
"mask"
> as a Geas. Perhaps whenever the power is used, the animal sign appears.

I don't know, but I suppose if the Player wrote up a significant enough
description of what "MY Mask" looks like, then perhaps, going on the concept
of the "Flaw" along the lines of "Memorable" or "Distinctive
Trait".

> Also, how do you apply Idol's mask for those that have one.

That would vary widely, and I suppose you mean "Icon". Again, IMO, it would
really depend on what the GM and the Player could reach a good decision upon.

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 00:03:43 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Rick Watkins <tazzanator@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Rigger 2 Fuel Economy
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>From owner-shadowrn@********.itribe.net Sun Aug 2 12:52:44 1998
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>Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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>From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
>Subject: Re: Rigger 2 Fuel Economy
>To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
>
>>> T:SH although helpful as far as smuggling
>>> goes, could stand a bit more detail on the t-bird stuff.
My big question about t-bird smuggling is:
1. How do the smugglers find them?
and
2. HOW DO THEY AFFORD THEM?
just curious

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 03:20:19 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: (ot) a Wyrmy-tech bulletin!
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In a message dated 8/2/1998 11:15:22 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
elfman@******.COM writes:

> I am not one of the invae ! stop pointing those swords and raid cans at
> me!I barely survived the Bug city runs my GM inflicted!and whats worse,
> all the rest of my team were turned into wasps(being a grade 20 iniate
> helps push outh those nasty larvae).I finaly paid most of my bill off,
> and now I can use the internet again! its time for a MAJOR bughunt
> (Binder,Canthros,Bull and spike ,meet me in the usual place for,we have
> a hive to exterminate!) well all I guess I can say is, "CHAAAAARGE!"
> :^).
> Wyrmy-the-bug-scared-p.o.ed-Wyrm-Druid.
>
<instant phone call or two, and some light preparations...>

Later, at the meeting place...with Wyrmy waiting in secure shadows...K is
going to step forward, with a note from "Binder"...he reads it aloud...

<clears throat>

Wyrmy...YOU ARE A NUT!!! :P

calmly leaves the note on the ground, and then runs like mad outtathere... ;)

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:19:10 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Rigger 2 Fuel Economy
In-Reply-To: <19980803070344.25985.qmail@*******.com>
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Rick Watkins writes:
(Hey, it's a small world, isn't it?)
> >>> T:SH although helpful as far as smuggling
> >>> goes, could stand a bit more detail on the t-bird stuff.
> My big question about t-bird smuggling is:
> 1. How do the smugglers find them?

Contacts, my friend, contacts... Army surplus dealers would be a source that
springs to mind.

> and
> 2. HOW DO THEY AFFORD THEM?

Umm... "business loans", offered by your friendly Family bankers?

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 02:20:50 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Eric M. Farmer" <efarmer@********.CC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Guess what!!
In-Reply-To: <199808030442.VAA28020@******.primenet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> At any rate my favorite as always is Dog. (and for anyone who doesn't
> already know do NOT get me started on a certain punk with the last name
> Verner.)

I dunno. I've got a great Cat shaman\valley girl concept that kicks my
ass. Whatever.

Eric Farmer
efarmer@********.cc.edu
http://www.cc.edu/~efarmer/
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 08:50:46 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <chimerae@***.iol.ie>
From: Martin Steffens <chimerae@***.IE>
Subject: Re: Shamanic Mask
In-Reply-To: <009401bdbe27$8fe08560$250013cf@********>
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and thus did Patrick Goodman speak on 2 Aug 98 at 10:04:

[when does the mask show up]
> As I've always seen it done here, and as I do it in my own game now that I'm
> getting brave and GMing, is that anything that depends on the Talent will
> fire up the mask; it's simply a matter of degree, what's being done, whether
> they get shamanic bonuses for particular things they might be doing, and how
> powerful a shaman you're dealing with.

Makes sense to use it like that, specially since the rules don't
say it only happens when casting spells.
BTW, I just realized that with this mask (which indeed I mostly
ignored) it becomes nigh to impossible for a shaman to cast a spell
without anyone noticing it. Okay, so you might miss the spell itself,
but when someone suddenly starts looking like Jaws it should be a
dead giveaway for anyone watching what's going on.



Karina & Martin Steffens
chimerae@***.ie
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:48:13 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: BEAR <claw.me@****.TM>
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Drinking Game
In-Reply-To: <35C093A2.3DFD3EBD@********.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>
>Everytime an NPC in a module has an UZI III take a drink. Everytime someone
>pulls out their Ares Predator II drink up. Everytime you run into a PC
>that is a troll with a combet axe and little imagination take a drink.
>
Everytime the players ask - 'can you read that again' - they all drink..
Clawed by
BEAR

<<------------------------------------------------------------------>>
"Me, a bastard? - Nah, they must mean my evil twin"
email: claw.me@****.tm
<<------------------- Care Factor Zero --------------------->>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 10:25:52 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ulrich Haupt <sandman@****.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Organization: Psychoakustik, Uni Oldenburg
Subject: Re: SR/Palladium
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Dhl9@***.COM wrote:

> I never played SR with the Palladium rules
> but we did have a long running SR
> campaign with Hero rules.

We played Rifts for several years and I've seen the same 'developement' as
bryan said. THe more books you have the les fun Rifts is to play. Actually I
try to convert Rifts to Gurps though I have a hard time because I never played
Gurps (just hav the main book).
I like the idea of Rifts world and the variability but I'm really no Battle
Tech fan therefor I don't like those huge battles.

Sandman
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 23:28:17 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: SR3 Doubts
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>At 05:25 PM 8/1/98 -0500, rabiola wrote these timeless words:
>>>If only I could tell EVERYTHING I know :]
>>>
>>
>>Just send us all a private Email with the details, Bull...
>>
><laugh>
>
>Hey, IIRC I think you know almost as much as I do, Tony :] Behave
yourself :]
>


ROFL! Dunno about that one, but I do appreciate the rumor someone is
spreading around! I'll try and keep myself under control over here...

Tony Rabiola rabiola@**.netcom.com
Fourth and Sixth World Adept
Still working on the Fifth...
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 03:34:13 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Looking for Mr Glinka
In-Reply-To: <01bdbe97$23511f20$32f81fcc@*******>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Hey has anyone out there got Tony Glinka's Email addy??
If so I need to get in touch with him ASAP..Thanks in advance..Or
better yet Tony G. If your out there lurking..Email me right away...
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
Understanding is a three edged sword. - Kosh
What is best in life?
To Crush Your Enemies,
To See Them Driven Before You,
To Hear The Lamentation Of Their Women. -Conan
I Am The LAW! -JD
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:25:54 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
In-Reply-To: <c103407a.35c4d788@***.com>
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Nexx Many-Scars said on 17:17/2 Aug 98,...

> Hey, I just had a thought. If someone with thermographic vision (be it
> through natural eyes or cyberware) looks through an optical image magnifier
> (not electronic), will they still be able to see in the thermo spectrum?

That's the same quesiton as we had a little while ago about
whether or not windows block thermographic vision. We never did
get a conclusive answer to that one, so this one is just as open
IMHO. (I would love to get my hands on a thermal imager to play
with for just a little while, to test a couple of these things...)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Money, tickets, passports! Money, tickets, passports!
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:25:54 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Skills
In-Reply-To: <35C4B878.6A77@**********.com>
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Bai Shen said on 15:05/2 Aug 98,...

> > Or just be patient and wait until SR3 comes out, since we are no longer
> > using a skill web, or so it has been foretold...
>
> Whyzat?

SR3 apparently does away with the skill web in favor of putting
them in skill groups linked to specific attributes. I don't know if I
like this, but I'll see about that when I get my SR3. If need be,
I'm going to create my own skill web for 3rd edition.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Money, tickets, passports! Money, tickets, passports!
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:25:54 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: License plates
In-Reply-To: <3fd68197.35c4cc47@***.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Dhl9@***.COM said on 16:29/2 Aug 98,...

> Corps are extraterritorial. Would any governmental or law enforcement entity
> have records of their vehicles? If a player has a Lone Star contact, what
> comes up on a vehicle check? I think Corp, private, unknown, restricted, no
> record, or something like that would come up.

I'd say it depends on how much info the corp whose vehicle is
concerned wants to share with Lone Star, and/or whether that
vehicle has been pulled over in the past. If it has, I think LS
would probably have the license plate and owner (i.e. most likely
the corp) on file somewhere.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Money, tickets, passports! Money, tickets, passports!
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:25:54 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Sperethiel Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <35C4CD36.F9CF984D@***********.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable

Thomas Faßnacht said on 22:33/2 Aug 98,...

> Is there any source book or web-site with a Sperethiel dictionary ?

The Tir Tairngire sourcebook has a short list of words and phrases
(about one page, IIRC), and so does the Earthdawn book
Denizens of Earthdawn volume 1. I'm not sure how much the two
overlap, though.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Money, tickets, passports! Money, tickets, passports!
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:25:54 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Sperethiel Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <009c01bdbe85$ea3dfa20$8290fecc@********>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Patrick Goodman said on 21:18/2 Aug 98,...

> So? Doesn't mean I have to accept it, or use it as the history in my game.
> I'm inclined to agree with something I think I read Mike Mulvihill saying,
> about the ED/SR linkage being hastily added on.

When this comes up, about half the time you'll hear people say it
was added at the last moment, and the other half that it was
planned from the start. Wouldn't it be nice if FASA could be more
specific IRL than in their sourcebooks? :)

> He didn't like it, but he's
> stuck with it. I don't like it either, and I'm not stuck with it,
so....

Mike's not stuck with it anymore either, I think...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Money, tickets, passports! Money, tickets, passports!
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 06:16:34 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Pantherr <pantherr@*****.NET>
Organization: IRCats.Org
Subject: Re: Guess what!!
In-Reply-To: <35C52A61.2D21@******.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



> It's that time.you know worse than when your evil relatives come
> over.worse than when you had to clean up after the dog/cat/other had
> diarrhea. Its time for me to ask the most infamous question of all.Not can
> you ground through a quickening,or are physads better than sammies. The
> question is: what is your favorite Totem.I'll start it off. Roach is
> gotta be the coolest.that or beetle.

The answer is simple. Cat. No other will suffice, for Cat is Truly at
the Top of the Evolutionary ladder. You pitiful humans are but
pawns, playthings for Cat to hone her cunning claws on.

Mice, that's what you are! Mice!

<g>

Pantherr


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--
A lifetime spent repressing our animal natures and instincts is a lifetime wasted
--
Furry Code v1.0a
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:22:07 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Sperethiel Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980802211402.007c8100@***.43.20.203> from "Justin
Bell" at Aug 2, 98 09:14:02 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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And verily, did Justin Bell hastily scribble thusly...
|
|# >The helpful answer may be to check out Earthdawn. Not exactly an
|# >online reference, but it's a start.
|#
|# Unless, of course, you're part of the camp that wants to disavow Earthdawn
|# as part of the Shadowrun universe. While I like the notion that this has
|# all happened before, and will happen again, I'm not too keen on ED.
|
|I could have sworn they have OFFICIALLY stated that it is

They have. Several times.
And even if they hadn't the connectrions are pretty clear and obvious.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 06:23:51 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Pantherr <pantherr@*****.NET>
Organization: IRCats.Org
Subject: Re: Re Location
In-Reply-To: <199808022033.QAA24221@****.atl.bellsouth.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Oh what the heck while we're at it I just moved to Atlanta Ga. last
> month. Any SR Players round here, I've found two and they seem decent and
> moved with another but a couple more would be nice.

eah, why not? Butler, Missouri (an hour south of Kansas City on
71). any roleplayers in the area, send me a private email :)

Pantherr (who knows better than to give out his phone number and
stuff over a mailing list. never know who's lurking ;) )

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--
A lifetime spent repressing our animal natures and instincts is a lifetime wasted
--
Furry Code v1.0a
RLTh2 FFlXw3rb7FjXh5mf P! W1/2Bk* cBk(Br)-cu6 A3S C5p9S ZGoMe C5a a21+ n3FD b56D H181
h4F0698F mEa1@* w6A p7E r7S
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:24:46 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Sperethiel Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <009c01bdbe85$ea3dfa20$8290fecc@********> from "Patrick
Goodman"
at Aug 2, 98 09:18:50 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did Patrick Goodman hastily scribble thusly...
|>I could have sworn they have OFFICIALLY stated that it is
|
|So? Doesn't mean I have to accept it, or use it as the history in my game.
|I'm inclined to agree with something I think I read Mike Mulvihill saying,
|about the ED/SR linkage being hastily added on. He didn't like it, but he's
|stuck with it. I don't like it either, and I'm not stuck with it, so....

Well, there's no stopping you from using the good and discarding the bad is
there?

If you want a sperethial dictionary, and there's one in Earthdawn, then why
not just use that and discard the rest?

(I'm sure you could gbet a photocopy of the relevant pages from somewhere.
[He said, naughtily])

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:44:35 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Eureka! - ShadowRN "Who's Who" Deciphered!
In-Reply-To: <01bdbea8$7cec8360$6ce2c6d0@***********> from "Steven A.
Tinner"
at Aug 3, 98 02:32:29 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Steven A. Tinner hastily scribble thusly...
|1) Send me an email with the SUBJECT line reading ...
|
|WHO

Who?

|2) If you have a photo of YOU (any format), attach it to said email.

Well.... It might be easier if you took it off the alt.punk web page.
(OK, ot's a year out of date and I've lost the mohican now, but I like it.

|3) If you have a sound file of YOU speaking (any format) attach that too.

Nope. Sorry.

|4) Make sure that your attachments are all zipped and very, very small, OK?
|Let's not bomb my mailbox into oblivion! The first joker that sends me a 1
|meg bitmap gets sentanced to hard time in Bull's Trousers!

Get it off the web page, it's easier that way....
http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/pollock/285/spike.html

|5) Fill out the following questionaire as completely as possible.
|
|----------
|
|Name: Andrew Halliwell
|Email: u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk
|I live in: Keele, Near Newcastle-under-lyme, Staffordshire, England
|How I got started in this crazy hobby: Started by trying out LRP, met
people who played tabletop, joined in.

|Games I have played/owned: Rifts, Palladium, Shadowrun, Earthdawn, HoL,
Stormbringer, Hawkmoon, Cthulu, ADnD, Paranoia, Macho women with guns,
Daemon, Starwars

|Favorite Games: Shadowrun (Silly)
|Favorite Shadowrun ...
| Archetype: Mage or Shaman (depending on my mood)
| Totem: Cat (Play my shamans like Cat from Red Dwarf.... Nahhhh)
| Weapon: Ingram Valiant or Ares Predator (1st Ed)/Pred II (1st Ed)
| Spell: Hmmmm... Tricky.... Have to think about that one.
| Race: Immortal Elves... (Only kidding) Don't have one.
| Vehicle: The expensive limo types
| FASA Character: (ie. Sam Verner, Dodger, etc.) Don't really have one.
It's a while since I
read a book.
| Other
|Other Hobbies: Computer tinkering.
|Computer Games. ZX Spectrum: Rex, Jet Set Willy, Manic Miner, Lunar
Jetman.
|Other stuff: What kind of other stuff?
| Could you be a little more vague please....

:)

|----------
|
|6) Send the whole shebang to me!

Done... Ooops. My finger slipped....
(To the list)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:15:09 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: SR3 Doubts
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970731154628.2407755a@*****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> Mike said however that if they did do Target: Awakened Lands and included
> Australia, that it was possible that they would go back and use the
> original Aussie Book submission...

A couple of years ago, Bleach contacted FASAMike about it, and the
response was that they were contractually obligated to use the original
submission. :(

Which is pretty cruddy, because I've read some of the author's material,
and I'm not super impressed.

Lady Jestyr

- It's not pretty being easy -
| Elle Holmes | jestyr@**********.com | http://jestyr.home.ml.org |
| Shadowrun Webring Ringmaster | GeoCities Leader | RPGA Reviewer |
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 09:19:14 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Sperethiel Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <006101bdbe80$25afa000$8290fecc@********>

On 2 Aug 98, at 20:42, Patrick Goodman wrote:

> Unless, of course, you're part of the camp that wants to disavow Earthdawn
> as part of the Shadowrun universe. While I like the notion that this has
> all happened before, and will happen again, I'm not too keen on ED.

AMEN!
Welcome, brother!

--

=================================================================
- Tim Kerby - drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
=================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 23:21:22 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Burke <ranger@********.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: License plates
In-Reply-To: <199808031025.MAA05829@*****.xs4all.nl>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 09:25 PM 8/3/98 , you wrote:
>Dhl9@***.COM said on 16:29/2 Aug 98,...
>
>> Corps are extraterritorial. Would any governmental or law enforcement
entity
>> have records of their vehicles? If a player has a Lone Star contact, what
>> comes up on a vehicle check? I think Corp, private, unknown, restricted, no
>> record, or something like that would come up.
>
>I'd say it depends on how much info the corp whose vehicle is
>concerned wants to share with Lone Star, and/or whether that
>vehicle has been pulled over in the past. If it has, I think LS
>would probably have the license plate and owner (i.e. most likely
>the corp) on file somewhere.

If I recall in the novel "Steel Rain" by Nyx Smith
there was a van that had plates registered to Renraku (?)
that was used by a Fuchi (?) hit team. The whole situation
was set up so that corp A took the heat for corp B's actions.

It didn't fool everyone but it certinaly diverted the heat away from
the real team/corp briefly. My memory is a little hazy on this one
about the exact details. One thing I do remember though is that
the van had a state issued corporate plate, similar to a diplomatic
plate in that it still is a regular plate but that it somewhere has a
corporate identifier on it somewhere. As for what corp well that's
for the deckers to find out.

I've also heard the talk of the 'barcode' licence plates but I still
prefer to use the good old letter & numbers. A LoneStar traffic
drone can give a regular licence plate a ticket just as easily as
a barcode. Besides what happens when the Star isn't on the scene
with the barcoded plates option?

"Did you get the license plate of the van that just did that drive by
shooting?"
"Uhh it was um a thick black line follwed by two thin black lines then umm.."

I think you can get the picture.

The technology for the licence plate/ticket thing is alive and well in
Australia. We have red light cameras that photograph your plate
when you run a red light not to mention speed cameras attached to
a radar gun that take your photo from the side of the highway and
in three weeks you get a glossy 6x8 and a ticket in the post.
Probably old news to you all out there but I just thought I'd share
it in case some poor sap lives in a place where these things haven't
arrived yet.

Cheers,

Tim Burke
President, ConJure 98
Brisbane, Australia
http://bear.tm/conjure/
"Summoning all gamers..."
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 09:49:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Drew Curtis <dcurtis@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Force vs. Success (Re: Shamanic Mask)
In-Reply-To: <c80f1f91.35c56190@***.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, K is the Symbol wrote:

> In a message dated 8/2/1998 5:10:23 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> 9604801@********.AC.NZ writes:
>
> > >Oh, K and I have agreed upon something about the SR3 rule about the max
> > number
> > >of successes a spell can have ... instead of the force of the spell ...
> > we are
> > >going to use the Magic attribute (Essence + Grade, only) to determine
> > the max
> > >number of success possible.
> >
> > I realise this is probably a silly question, but won't that be even more
> > reason to learn spells at (Magic) or less? I mean, if you got better
> > results from taking Physical Drain when casting a spell, it was still
> > worth it. But if you're an uninitiated magician (Magic 6), what would
> > be the point of learning a Force 7 spell (no fetish/exclusive bonuses)
> > if you can only get a maximum of 6 successes? You'd end up taking
> > Physical damage for 7 successes that act like 6; it wouldn't be worth
> > the pain.
>
> In many instances, you are very correct. However, please understand that in
> the games here, it is NOT uncommon for a character (aka, US the PC's) to
> encounter someone with a spell barrier or inside a Lodge or Opposing Ward,
> which really screws up the chances of a spell reaching the target unless it is
> at a higher force. Also, in many instances, Manipulation Magic does allow for
> some extensions of armor to assist the target in some manner.
>

Also, another compelling reason to learn a force 7 spell with magic 6 is
that you raise your _average_ number of successes. The max is still the
same (6 successes), but if you're not already rolling your full 6 each
time, you might want that extra die in there to potentially boost your
successes (from say 4 to 5 if the extra die is a success).

If you're already rolling 6 successes with regularity however, you're
right: it won't help.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 09:11:24 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <pedersje@******.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU>
Organization: Rose-Hulman Insitute of Technology
Subject: Re: Guess what!!
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Pantherr wrote:

> The answer is simple. Cat. No other will suffice, for Cat is Truly at
> the Top of the Evolutionary ladder. You pitiful humans are but
> pawns, playthings for Cat to hone her cunning claws on.

Wolf does not appreciate your tomfoolery, mortal.

> Mice, that's what you are! Mice!

Mmmm... mice... crunchy...

> <g>

<CUE_EVEN_BIGGER_GRIN>

> Pantherr

--
John Pederson otherwise known as Lyle Canthros, shapeshifter-mage
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes
convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe -- a
spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we
with our modest powers must feel humble."
--Albert Einstein
lobo1@****.com canthros1@***.com pedersje@******.rose-hulman.edu
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/4864 ICQ UIN 3190186
"I'm not fifty!" "SPOONMAN!!!" Number Two -- with a bullet!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 09:12:42 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Sperethiel Dictionary
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>Well, there's no stopping you from using the good and discarding the
>bad is there?

Well, no, but after more than a couple of decades of playing RPGs, I've
grown a bit tired of straight fantasy games. Personal preference issues,
don't you know?

>If you want a sperethial dictionary, and there's one in Earthdawn, then
>why not just use that and discard the rest?

WHere on earth did you get the notion that *I* wanted a Sperethiel
dictionary? Few things could be further from the truth.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 09:18:25 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Sperethiel Dictionary
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>> I'm inclined to agree with something I think I read Mike Mulvihill
>> saying, about the ED/SR linkage being hastily added on.
>
>When this comes up, about half the time you'll hear people say it
>was added at the last moment, and the other half that it was
>planned from the start.

I've heard both sides of the argument; from what I've been able to see (and
please note that I've not played Earthdawn, just watched a game or two and
casually scanned the rules and one of the sourcebooks), I'm inclined to
agree with the former view.

>Wouldn't it be nice if FASA could be more specific IRL than in
>their sourcebooks? :)

Where would be the fun in that...? <g>

>> He didn't like it, but he's stuck with
>> it. I don't like it either, and I'm not stuck with it, so....
>
>Mike's not stuck with it anymore either, I think...

He does appear to be going to some lengths to get away from that particular
aspect, yes. I doubt I'll ever use CYBERPIRATES for anything, but I'm sure
glad to see some expansion in the ways you can use the system.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 15:21:23 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Sperethiel Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <00c201bdbee8$fc5a2c20$4990fecc@********> from "Patrick
Goodman"
at Aug 3, 98 09:12:42 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Patrick Goodman hastily scribble thusly...
|WHere on earth did you get the notion that *I* wanted a Sperethiel
|dictionary? Few things could be further from the truth.

Well whoever it was who made the original post then!
I don't know who it was....

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 10:25:07 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: BigDaddy <bigdaddy@*****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Re: Guess what!!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

GRANITE wrote:
>
> > That's cool I can understand the appeal of shark definitely, but i'm still
> > surprised that it's your fav.
>
> I do have a certain lust for the hunt..There is nothing like ligning
> up your sights on some guy and putting one right in the middle of his
> chest...Oh I like to go after the fury kind of game as well..But I
> suppose I do have a sort of blood lust...[EG]
>

Ya know it's a shame i haven't seen a tiger totem ( if there is one
tell me!) The characteristics are kinda the same. Tiger loves the hunt
and kill, sometimes lethargic after eating, and generally a fierce and
proud warrior.

i like it!


--
Napalm Sticks to Kidz,
BigDaddy
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 11:41:46 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Sperethiel Dictionary
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-03 07:22:27 EDT, you write:

<snip ED\SR same world, different ages>

> |I could have sworn they have OFFICIALLY stated that it is
>
> They have. Several times.
> And even if they hadn't the connectrions are pretty clear and obvious.

It was obvious enough that my brother, his friend and I all got it within 20
minutes of flipping through the ED main book.

Nexx
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 11:47:56 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Eureka! - ShadowRN "Who's Who" Deciphered!
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 98-08-03 02:56:00 EDT, you write:

> 3) If you have a sound file of YOU speaking (any format) attach that too.

Uhhh.... Steve? I got a question about this one. I've got several sound
files of me speaking, but unfortunately, my mic is now broken... you wouldn't
happen to mind an a cappella rendition of "Minstrel Boy" (the closest thing I
have to appropriate) would you?

Nexx
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 11:48:42 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Guess what!!
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 8/3/1998 9:11:11 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
pedersje@******.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU writes:

> > The answer is simple. Cat. No other will suffice, for Cat is Truly at
> > the Top of the Evolutionary ladder. You pitiful humans are but
> > pawns, playthings for Cat to hone her cunning claws on.
>
> Wolf does not appreciate your tomfoolery, mortal.

Wolf and Cat are both just fine, in fact more than fine, they are perfect in
each their own way...

> > Mice, that's what you are! Mice!
> Mmmm... mice... crunchy...

With a little bit of breeding to livestock perhaps...

> > <g>
> <CUE_EVEN_BIGGER_GRIN>

(SMILE_THE_SIZE_OF_HEAVEN)

K (whose favorite still resides in Ometeotl/Creator)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 11:44:45 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Thermo lenses (was Re: Camo and Ruthenium) -Reply

>>If someone with thermographic vision (be it
>>through natural eyes or cyberware) looks through an optical image
magnifier
>>(not electronic), will they still be able to see in the thermo spectrum?
>
>
> You mean an optical telscope, right? The answer is a fim maybe.
>Obviously, thermographic imaging systems use lenses, so lenses work
>on themo light. You can alos load normal slr cameras with IR film.
>However, I think for some wavelengths (the longesat ones), you need
>special glass and coatings, low reflectivity, I'd guess, as glass
>bounces low length IR.

Actually, it is my understanding that your average lenses do NOT
transmit IR, or at least not nearly well enough. Quartz glass does,
though, and that is what imaging systems use. I believe that in order to
use IR film you also need a special IR lens too, for the same reason.

Double-Domed Mike
--Coughing and hacking so much I can't talk to my computer :(
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:01:27 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Frank Pelletier (Trinity)" <jeanpell@****.QC.CA>
Subject: Re: Eureka! - ShadowRN "Who's Who" Deciphered!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK> once wrote,

(snipped)


>|Games I have played/owned: Rifts, Palladium, Shadowrun, Earthdawn, HoL,
(snipped)

HoL? HoL!? You mean...I'm not the only freak out there who actually played
the game? Woohoo! I'm normal!...

<taps his fingers on his forearm to communicate with other Freebasers, sets
his house on fire, and calls 0 to announce he started a new game>

Trinity
-------------------------------------------------------------
Frank Pelletier
Trinity@********.com, jeanpell@****.qc.ca
This message was brought to you by Tricky - "Angels with Dirty Faces"

"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind" - M. Gandhi
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:10:03 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Eureka! - ShadowRN "Who's Who" Deciphered!
In-Reply-To: <01bdbef7$f8e504c0$36d2e7ce@*******> from "Frank Pelletier"
at
Aug 3, 98 12:01:27 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Frank Pelletier hastily scribble thusly...
|
|Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK> once wrote,
|
|(snipped)
|
|
|>|Games I have played/owned: Rifts, Palladium, Shadowrun, Earthdawn, HoL,
| (snipped)
|
|HoL? HoL!? You mean...I'm not the only freak out there who actually played
|the game? Woohoo! I'm normal!...

Sorry. Never had a chance to play it.
(It does say played/owned y'see).
I'd love to give it a try, but, to put it in HoL terms, it's a really,
really, really, REALLY silly game, and I don't think I'd be able to get
anything done without a few nervous breakdowns or haemorages from too much
laughter.....

|<taps his fingers on his forearm to communicate with other Freebasers, sets
|his house on fire, and calls 0 to announce he started a new game>

*shakes head in pitty*
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 10:12:44 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: HoL
In-Reply-To: <199808031604.KAA08907@******.carl.org> from "Frank
Pelletier" at
Aug 3, 98 12:01:27 pm
Content-Type: text

Frank Pelletier wrote:
/
/ Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK> once wrote,
/
/ (snipped)
/
/
/ >|Games I have played/owned: Rifts, Palladium, Shadowrun, Earthdawn, HoL,
/ (snipped)
/
/ HoL? HoL!? You mean...I'm not the only freak out there who actually played
/ the game?

There's also Me and Sascha :)

/ Woohoo! I'm normal!...

...you're kidding, right? Anyone that enjoys a game where it is
possible to blow a hole the size of Slim Whitman in your opponent is
not normal. Not that there's anything wrong with that ;)

-David
--
"Here, have some buttery HoLsomeness. On the house."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 09:13:52 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Eureka! - ShadowRN "Who's Who" Deciphered!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Frank Pelletier (Trinity) wrote:

> >|Games I have played/owned: Rifts, Palladium, Shadowrun, Earthdawn, HoL,
> (snipped)
>
> HoL? HoL!? You mean...I'm not the only freak out there who actually played
> the game? Woohoo! I'm normal!...
>
> <taps his fingers on his forearm to communicate with other Freebasers, sets
> his house on fire, and calls 0 to announce he started a new game>

I never thought i'd live to see the day when Spike was used as the yardstick
or normalcy.

:)

Caric-the-glad-i'm-not-normal-shaman
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 10:19:56 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Saving Private Ryan
Content-Type: text

I highly recommend this movie (and I'm not employed by Steven
Spielberg, so this isn't an ad ;p

A few months back there was a debate about how characters should react
to combat and killing. SPR addressed this (and a whole hell of a lot
more) on many levels. And not since Heat have I seen such believable
portrail of combat. And it's a damn good movie.

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 10:20:35 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Eureka! - ShadowRN "Who's Who" Deciphered!
In-Reply-To: <199808031616.KAA11410@******.carl.org> from "Caric" at Aug
3,
98 09:13:52 am
Content-Type: text

Caric wrote:
/
/ Frank Pelletier (Trinity) wrote:
/
/ > >|Games I have played/owned: Rifts, Palladium, Shadowrun, Earthdawn, HoL,
/ > (snipped)
/ >
/ > HoL? HoL!? You mean...I'm not the only freak out there who actually played
/ > the game? Woohoo! I'm normal!...
/
/ I never thought i'd live to see the day when Spike was used as the yardstick
/ or normalcy.
/
/ :)

ROTFLOL!

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:24:53 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Dhl9@***.COM
Subject: Re: Guess what!!
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-03 00:09:38 EDT, you write:

> > The question is: what is your favorite Totem.I'll start it off.
> > Roach is gottat be the coolest.that or beetle.
>

Wolf. Totem of the honorable warrior.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:38:42 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Dhl9@***.COM
Subject: Re: License plates
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-03 09:34:35 EDT, you write:

> I've also heard the talk of the 'barcode' licence plates but I still
> prefer to use the good old letter & numbers. A LoneStar traffic
> drone can give a regular licence plate a ticket just as easily as
> a barcode.
>

Anybody know where I can find this about barcodes? What novel or sourcebook it
is in?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 11:43:25 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Goth <xaos@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Sperethiel Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <009c01bdbe85$ea3dfa20$8290fecc@********>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> ># Unless, of course, you're part of the camp that wants to disavow
> ># Earthdawn as part of the Shadowrun universe. While I like the
> ># notion that this has all happened before, and will happen again,
> ># I'm not too keen on ED.
> >
> >I could have sworn they have OFFICIALLY stated that it is
>
> So? Doesn't mean I have to accept it, or use it as the history
> in my game.
> I'm inclined to agree with something I think I read Mike Mulvihill saying,
> about the ED/SR linkage being hastily added on. He didn't like
> it, but he's
> stuck with it. I don't like it either, and I'm not stuck with it, so....

It doesn't really matter either way when it comes down to it. Simply put,
you cannot read the main ED rulebook and not get the impression that there
is a link (if not an outright chain!) to SR. Also simply put, you cannot
read either 'version' of Sperethiel and not assume they are one and the
same. (Of course, your version of SR and ED may say otherwise, and that's
certainly your perogative. I'll not try to stop you! :) )

Again, to answer the original question, these sources are probably your best
first place to look. And, I don't believe there are any online references
for Sperethiel.

-Dave-
xaos@*****.net
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:55:16 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
In-Reply-To: <v04011712b1e9a7641e49@[128.120.118.25]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:24 PM 8/1/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Hey look, spare me the comments about how I want to reply. I was on this
>list before it was on the current listproc, and if it's to the point where
>you must stylistically reply a certain way, I'm happy to sign off again.

I knew I remembered the name from the old days. Welcome back. And don't
let Keith and Mike and whoever else drive you out. Their style of gaming
is just different from yours (and mine.

>And I think you totally missed my point.

What's going on here, as I see it, is a difference in philosophy. Adam is
looking at things from a real world and current perspective. Which I agree
with. Mike and Keith tend to say "Well, yeah, but look at 2060 tech and it
probably can be done by then."

Which isn't necessarily true, but it works for their style of gaming. I
doubt that solar cells will ever become good enough to integrate into a
ghillie suit, especially since there is no real strong reason for anyone to
research this subject or put any effort into it. But it's their game and
they can do it if they want.

Welcome back Adam.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:35:52 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Favorite totem? [was: Guess what!!]
In-Reply-To: <35C5C843.100873BF@*****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 10:25 AM 8/3/98 -0400, BigDaddy wrote:
>Ya know it's a shame i haven't seen a tiger totem ( if there is one
>tell me!) The characteristics are kinda the same. Tiger loves the
hunt
>and kill, sometimes lethargic after eating, and generally a fierce
and
>proud warrior.
>
>i like it!

Wigs' Totem list on the Shadowrun Archive has a listing for tiger at:


http://www.interware.it/users/paolo/sr2/magic/shamanic/ttotems.html#TIGE
R


It's Ok, as far as things go.


I'm wondering, where did Wigs get all these totem descriptions anyway?
Was this just a compilation of homebrews, or what?
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--
-- Paul Gettle (pgettle@********.net)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:11455339 (RSA 1024, created 97/08/08)
625A FFF0 76DC A077 D21C 556B BB58 00AA
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:53:55 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: HoL
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Once upon a time, David Buehrer wrote;

>/ HoL? HoL!? You mean...I'm not the only freak out there who actually played
>/ the game?
>
>There's also Me and Sascha :)
>
>/ Woohoo! I'm normal!...
>
>...you're kidding, right? Anyone that enjoys a game where it is
>possible to blow a hole the size of Slim Whitman in your opponent is
>not normal. Not that there's anything wrong with that ;)

With that in mind, I too own HoL. For the more serious minded I also
have Tales from the Floating Vagabond. B>]#

From the collector's side of things I own several old hardbound
rulebooks (1st ed.AD&D, Call of Cthulhu, Warhammer Fantasy Battles, Rogue
Trader - Warhammer 40,000, Traveller, Shadowrun 1st ed.), but most
important of all is my Box Set of FASA's Star Trek rules.

-Master Collector 23, who is boggled over the absence of Toon-
8>@#
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:24:10 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Anime & Hentai Suggestions)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

> TINNER'S SHADOWRUN ANIME, MANGA & ETC VIEWING LIST
>
> Golgo 13 - Yeah, it's a bit cheesey but still fun to watch.
> Riding Bean - For all the reasons mentioned before.
> Gatchaman/Battle of the Planets/G-Force/Eagle Riders - Just for the
> "5-Team"
> concept. (Leader, Hothead, Babe, Lunk, Kid)
> Black Magic M-66 - When a robot goes wrong ...
> MD Geist -Attitude is everything
> 8-Man - One of the first cyborg Anime characters. It's a little dated
> now,
> but still quite interesting.
> Mighty Atom/Astro Boy - For an example of how an AI might act, IMO.
> Ghost in the Shell - Duh ...
> Robotech - For one concept of a Rigger interface.
> Lupin: Castle of Cagliostro - If you want to play a theif, look here.
> Great
> fun!
>
> Hmmm ... it's late, I'm tired. I post more if I can remember them.
>
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Appleseed (Matsumune
Shirow) the movie rocks but (obviously) the comics show a bit more depth
of character. Interesting look at how a Lone Star or other corp SWAT
team might operate and the gear they might pull out.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:26:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Drew Curtis <dcurtis@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
In-Reply-To: <199808031025.MAA05824@*****.xs4all.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Gurth wrote:

> Nexx Many-Scars said on 17:17/2 Aug 98,...
>
> > Hey, I just had a thought. If someone with thermographic vision (be it
> > through natural eyes or cyberware) looks through an optical image magnifier
> > (not electronic), will they still be able to see in the thermo spectrum?
>
> That's the same quesiton as we had a little while ago about
> whether or not windows block thermographic vision. We never did
> get a conclusive answer to that one, so this one is just as open
> IMHO. (I would love to get my hands on a thermal imager to play
> with for just a little while, to test a couple of these things...)
>
A window would greatly obscure a thermographic image but not entirely
block it. I had a chance to play around with a therographic camera back
in college, we actually tried it. The window has its own temperature, and
therefore it's own "light". Things brighter in infrared than the window
would shine through.

I wouldn't see why that extra glare couldn't be corrected for with imaging
software, because the brightness of the window would be a set amount and
therefore be predictable enough to filter out.

So basically you can see through but your equipment might suck and prevent
you from getting good detail. I'd say +4 partial cover perception
modifier grin.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 20:27:50 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Sperethiel Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <00c901bdbee9$98b68dc0$4990fecc@********>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Patrick Goodman said on 9:18/3 Aug 98,...

> >When this comes up, about half the time you'll hear people say it
> >was added at the last moment, and the other half that it was
> >planned from the start.
>
> I've heard both sides of the argument; from what I've been able to see (and
> please note that I've not played Earthdawn, just watched a game or two and
> casually scanned the rules and one of the sourcebooks), I'm inclined to
> agree with the former view.

More or less the opposite of my first impression (gotten from one
of the first three ED flyers from 1993). I thought it appeared to
be closely linked to SR from the outset. Buying a fair number of
the books for the system later made it appear even more like that
to me.

> >Mike's not stuck with it anymore either, I think...
>
> He does appear to be going to some lengths to get away from that particular
> aspect, yes. I doubt I'll ever use CYBERPIRATES for anything, but I'm sure
> glad to see some expansion in the ways you can use the system.

Me too, but OTOH I feel Mike is steering SR away too far from
what SR was until he took over... No, I don't mean the whole IE
plot (which I like, provided it's not overdone) but if you ask me
SR is about shadowrunners doing shadowruns for whatever
personal reasons they have. My impression of Mike's view is that
it's about everything but shadowrunners (see Companion,
Underworld, Cyberpirates), and that shadowrunners should do the
Right Thing(tm). But let's not turn this into a rant :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Money, tickets, passports! Money, tickets, passports!
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:38:50 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Collins <einan@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: Favorite totem? [was: Guess what!!]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Racoon Ususally does it for me. Because curiosity killed the cat but
racoon was able to figure out how to disarm the trap. :)

Steve
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:30:44 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: Scent of a Woman
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

> Only if there's elements like a cigarette's smell you can say she
> smells like [insert brand here], but to describe the difference
> between her and someone else who smokes the same brand in words is
> impossible. Of course if you have a chem analyzer you could churn out
> lists of elements and classify the person based on those, which
> should make it a lot easier on the user.
>
This is how I would imagine the cyber working. Create a
numerical analysis of the molecules detected, match them against known
patterns (Joe, Barbara, the dog etc) and if no matches are detected just
give the person the data however useless that might be.

=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:45:06 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John Dukes <dukes@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Rigger 2 Fuel Economy
In-Reply-To: <19980803070344.25985.qmail@*******.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>1. How do the smugglers find them?
>and
>2. HOW DO THEY AFFORD THEM?
>just curious

I've always imagined t-bird smugglers as the very best of the best. They
spend years smuggling with boats, trucks, and planes before they can save
up enough money to build, steal, or buy a t-bird. And smuggling is VERY
profitable. Computer parts for example have around a 300% markup in the CAS
from Seattle prices. If you can cutout the mob middleman (rather dangerous
if they find out you are smuggling without their approval) you stand to
make an enormous profit.

-Teeg
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:33:09 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: Scent of a Woman
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

> Sort of. Actually, its a admission of, I believe, being submission.
> If a dog
> is superior to another dog, it will present its rear to be smelled,
> while the
> inferior dog (or wolf, who most of this information is based on) will
> withdraw
> his own. Two dogs that know each other well (or your own pets, once
> they
> become comfortable with your family), will smell the head and neck
> region,
> which is reminescent of the way a pup begs its parent to regurgitate
> food.
>
Ahh, so I should puke on my cat next time it nuzzles up
to me?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:41:56 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <DeckerL@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Sperethiel Dictionary -Reply
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker, Unix Admin (704)331-1149
deckerl@******.com Fax 331-1159
Moore & Van Allen, PLLC Pager 1-888-608-9633

>>> Gurth <gurth@******.NL> 08/03/98 03:27pm >>>

<SNIP>
>Me too, but OTOH I feel Mike is steering SR away too far from
>what SR was until he took over... No, I don't mean the whole IE
>plot (which I like, provided it's not overdone) but if you ask me
>SR is about shadowrunners doing shadowruns for whatever
>personal reasons they have. My impression of Mike's view is
>that it's about everything but shadowrunners (see Companion,
>Underworld, Cyberpirates), and that shadowrunners should do
>the Right Thing(tm). But let's not turn this into a rant :)

I'll work with you somewhat on this, but I see it a bit differently.
I feel like Mike is trying to cover the basis. You may not ever
play a pirate SR campaign, but you certaintly may have to deal
with them, pick up gear, etc. You may never deal with the mob,
but an awful lot of illegal gear/info flows through there.
To me the books provide more options for me the GM.
Hopefully SR3 will get back to the core ideas
a bit more however. :) Most runners (IMHO) aren't white
knights, and may only be in it for the money. But you'd
hope we all aren't. :)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:45:09 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 8/3/98 12:01:44 PM US Eastern Standard Time, erikj@****.COM
writes:

> >Hey look, spare me the comments about how I want to reply. I was on this
> >list before it was on the current listproc, and if it's to the point where
> >you must stylistically reply a certain way, I'm happy to sign off again.
>
> I knew I remembered the name from the old days. Welcome back. And don't
> let Keith and Mike and whoever else drive you out. Their style of gaming
> is just different from yours (and mine.

K and -I- are not intending on driving Adam out ... all we are asking is that
something not be shot down as -STUPID- like Adam said ... and as for
responding in a certain way ... that is not a choice on our parts ... this is
sanctioned in the FAQ as canon for the list ...

> >And I think you totally missed my point.
>
> What's going on here, as I see it, is a difference in philosophy. Adam is
> looking at things from a real world and current perspective. Which I agree
> with. Mike and Keith tend to say "Well, yeah, but look at 2060 tech and it
> probably can be done by then."

Correct ... and we also tend not to weight future tech with the constraints of
today's knowledge either ...

> Which isn't necessarily true, but it works for their style of gaming. I
> doubt that solar cells will ever become good enough to integrate into a
> ghillie suit, especially since there is no real strong reason for anyone to
> research this subject or put any effort into it. But it's their game and
> they can do it if they want.

You are right, there is no strong reason for doing something like this to a
ghillie suit, but trust me, someone in the military beaurocracy might think
that having this as part of the ghillie suit be a good idea ... and being a
military brat for 20 years has taught me that some of the things the military
does is outright stupid to anyone without their mentality.

-Herc
------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:48:06 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Scent of a Woman
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 98-08-03 14:34:09 EDT, you write:

> Two dogs that know each other well (or your own pets, once
> > they
> > become comfortable with your family), will smell the head and neck
> > region,
> > which is reminescent of the way a pup begs its parent to regurgitate
> > food.
> >
> Ahh, so I should puke on my cat next time it nuzzles up
> to me?

Uhhhh, no. For one thing, this is about canines (wolves in particular, dogs
on the fringe), and two, the point isn't to make you puke... its like a hug.
It doesn't mean they want you to strip naked and embrace them, but rather to
remind you of the closeness two people can feel.

Nexx, amateur anthropologist
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 15:16:43 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Favorite totem? [was: Guess what!!]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 8/3/1998 12:48:09 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
RunnerPaul@*****.COM writes:

> Wigs' Totem list on the Shadowrun Archive has a listing for tiger at:
>
>
> http://www.interware.it/users/paolo/sr2/magic/shamanic/ttotems.html#TIGE
> R
> It's Ok, as far as things go.
> I'm wondering, where did Wigs get all these totem descriptions anyway?
> Was this just a compilation of homebrews, or what?

I just talked with him on the phone about this the other night. Chicken,
Tiger, and many of the others he actually got from someone else. It was part
of a conversion compilation a guy did based partially upon the "Animal Cards"
variation on Tarot that can (still) be found in many bookstores and "Native
American Nicknack" places (you know, the one's that claim to have -real-
-honest- hopi white gold rings that make the rest of us who know better after
examination nearly fall over backwards and yarf our guts out).

Anyway, he didn't actually make them all himself, they were given to him. He
checked the sourcecodes for the mailings (yes, he keeps stuff this long) and
found only a vague reference to the actually contributor.

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:11:20 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Force vs. Success (Re: Shamanic Mask)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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-----Original Message-----
From: Drew Curtis <dcurtis@***.NET>
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Date: Monday, August 03, 1998 6:49 AM
Subject: Re: Force vs. Success (Re: Shamanic Mask)

>> > >Oh, K and I have agreed upon something about the SR3 rule about the max
>> > number
>> > >of successes a spell can have

>Also, another compelling reason to learn a force 7 spell with magic 6 is
>that you raise your _average_ number of successes. The max is still the
>same (6 successes), but if you're not already rolling your full 6 each
>time, you might want that extra die in there to potentially boost your
>successes (from say 4 to 5 if the extra die is a success).


If you are discussing sr3 spell casting , and have been exposed to those
rules, my question to you is: what extra casting dice does that higher force
spell give? Just where exactly do spell casting test dice come from in sr3,
and how many are rolled??

What, another thing Bull didn't mention??? :)

Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 15:29:32 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium [was: not Ruthenium Polymers,
and they DON '<
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

> Ah, right, the good old days.
>
> I did some work at Ft. Belvoir on this in 1886 I believe it was. If
> it's
> like the materials we were looking at it mostly allows you to match
> the
> chlorophyll curve ... it's effectively impossible to "block" heat
> without a
> large thickness of air-porous material.
>
good OLD days. 1886? How old are you?? ;)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 15:35:54 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: License plates
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

> The technology for the licence plate/ticket thing is alive and well in
> Australia. We have red light cameras that photograph your plate
> when you run a red light not to mention speed cameras attached to
> a radar gun that take your photo from the side of the highway and
> in three weeks you get a glossy 6x8 and a ticket in the post.
> Probably old news to you all out there but I just thought I'd share
> it in case some poor sap lives in a place where these things haven't
> arrived yet.
>
Yep, we just got a shipment here in Charlotte also. You
know, generally I like technology, but getting a ticket from a little
box on the road would really piss me off.
Course, using tech against itself, I got an email a few
days ago detailing where all the cameras are located :)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 15:49:42 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: Assault canon in RL
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

> Recoilless rifles have been used since before WWII, but the
> biggest drawback are that they're single-shot weapons and have
> a huge backblast (don't stand behind one when it's loaded, let
> alone will soon be fired).
>
Single shot? I assume you are talking about this in
terms of load a shell, fire, load another shell. As opposed to a clip.
They aren't like a LAW. (Then I assume you know this but I just thought
I would clarify)

> As SR's assault cannons are magazine-fed weapons and don't
> have a backblast (I'm sure that would have been mentioned as
> it's kinda important when firing one indoors), I don't think they
> are recoilless rifles.
>
> However, Mauser I believe has built a couple of prototypes of a
> belt-fed, recoilless 30 mm cannon for the Bundeswehr, intended
> as armament for helicopters and light vehicles. If this proves a
> success I could see it being applied to similar but lighter weapons
> for use by individual soldiers.
>
You could create a porting system to replicate a
recoilless rifle concept. If you had lots of small holes (rather than
the 3 large holes on the rear of most recoilless rifles). This would
make it imperative to hold it properly when firing.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:04:19 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

> > For some people worried about power, the suit could have Suncell
> Power added
> > on, or perhaps a connecter cord to a Suncell Power net of sorts.
>
>
> The problem with a solar cell is that they reflect light, making an
> easy,
> flashing target.
>
There is actually a coating that the military puts on
damn near everything now which kills reflections. They started on
binocular lenses but it's spreading IRC.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:08:44 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

> Again ... if you put a "sun cell" system into a suit, you eliminate
> its
> camouflage potential. A nice diffuse low power laser will cause you to
> light up like a flare. All I have to do is look for a reflectance
> curve
> that peaks around 650 nanometers ... that will stand out nicely
> against the
> chlorophyll curve of the surrounding vegetation.
>
Don't people reflect differently also? Does
burlap(normal ghillie material) = grass on these things? If they are
doing this you are screwed, camo is irrelevant.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:14:06 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: "The Mystic Knights of Tir na Og"
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Someone mentioned this earlier... I just saw the ad for it while watching
EEEK! the Cat... I just have one question...

They cancelled Roar!, but they're going to show this hokey piece of crap?

Nexx
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:22:17 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

> Which isn't necessarily true, but it works for their style of gaming.
> I
> doubt that solar cells will ever become good enough to integrate into
> a
> ghillie suit, especially since there is no real strong reason for
> anyone to
> research this subject or put any effort into it. But it's their game
> and
> they can do it if they want.
>
I just thought it was kinda neat.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 15:42:06 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <pedersje@******.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU>
Organization: Rose-Hulman Insitute of Technology
Subject: Re: "The Mystic Knights of Tir na Og"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Nexx Many-Scars wrote:
>
> Someone mentioned this earlier... I just saw the ad for it while watching
> EEEK! the Cat... I just have one question...
>
> They cancelled Roar!, but they're going to show this hokey piece of crap?

Different target audience, lower budget. So, yes. They're going to show
something that's only slightly above a hot, steaming pile of <<.002 Mps deleted
by Sysop>>. Instead of renewing Roar (which kicked <<.002 Mps deleted by
Sysop>>. It's kind of a shame. I thought the show looked interesting, but it was
a tad poorly done for suspension of disbelief (cheese was almost dripping from
the TV set)

--
John Pederson otherwise known as Lyle Canthros, shapeshifter-mage
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes
convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe -- a
spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we
with our modest powers must feel humble."
--Albert Einstein
lobo1@****.com canthros1@***.com pedersje@******.rose-hulman.edu
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/4864 ICQ UIN 3190186
"I'm not fifty!" "SPOONMAN!!!" Number Two -- with a bullet!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:44:39 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Mike's Course
In-Reply-To: <199808031840.MAA10489@******.carl.org> from "Lehlan Decker"
at
Aug 3, 98 02:41:56 pm
Content-Type: text

/ >>> Gurth <gurth@******.NL> 08/03/98 03:27pm >>>
/
/ >...OTOH I feel Mike is steering SR away too far from
/ >what SR was until he took over... No, I don't mean the whole IE
/ >plot (which I like, provided it's not overdone) but if you ask me
/ >SR is about shadowrunners doing shadowruns for whatever
/ >personal reasons they have. My impression of Mike's view is
/ >that it's about everything but shadowrunners (see Companion,
/ >Underworld, Cyberpirates), and that shadowrunners should do
/ >the Right Thing(tm). But let's not turn this into a rant :)

They're *source*books. :)

Everything other than the core rules are for those players and/or GMs
that want to broaden, add depth, or readjust their game. If you want
to run in the Caribian, get Pirates. If you want to do some heavy
rigging, their's R2. If you want to get involved with the corps,
there's BitB. Cops: LoneStar. Magic: Awakenings. Etc.

You don't have to use them. If you want, you can run a game off the
core rules alone and have more than enough fun.

Or if Bug City looks like a kick in the ass (Hi Tinner ;) you can buy
it and terrorize your players (or buy it for your GM if you're a sadist
:)

I think Mike is doing a good job of providing good extra material for
the nich market of Shadowrun.

Now if they'd only do a Japan sourcebook :-\

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:54:40 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: License plates
In-Reply-To: <199808031640.KAA17172@******.carl.org> from "Dhl9@***.COM"
at
Aug 3, 98 12:38:42 pm
Content-Type: text

Dhl9@***.COM wrote:
/
/ > I've also heard the talk of the 'barcode' licence plates but I still
/ > prefer to use the good old letter & numbers. A LoneStar traffic
/ > drone can give a regular licence plate a ticket just as easily as
/ > a barcode.

Or, better yet, use the same technology that they're using at some toll
booths in the US. A person can buy a credit card sized transponder
from the company that operates the toll booth. They put the
transponder in their rear window. As they drive through the toll gate
(at highway speed) a sensor in the booth registers the transponder and
matches it's signal with the owner and adds the toll fee to their
monthly bill.

Now combine that technology with the paranoia and big brother mentality of
Shadowrun.

Each license plate has a transponder embeded in it (the transponder
signal matches the plate ID).

LoneStar can query the transponder and match the license plate with the
car it's registered to, it's owner, and from their access the owner's
police records. At a touch of a button they can have all the
information they need to make a decision on how to handle the
situation.

Likewise monitoring devices could be set up on the highways and at
intersections to monitor traffic and issue fines automatically to
violaters of traffic laws.

These same monitoring devices could also track specific vehicles (bank
robbers) allowing LoneStar to set up roadblocks ahead of them.

Of course, this opens up a whole new commerce in illegal plates and
jobs for deckers to alter records and overide monitoring stations :)

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:54:16 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: Thermo/IR
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> >Hey, I just had a thought. If someone with thermographic vision (be it
> >through natural eyes or cyberware) looks through an optical image magnifier
> >(not electronic), will they still be able to see in the thermo spectrum?
> You mean an optical telscope, right? The answer is a fim maybe.
> Obviously, thermographic imaging systems use lenses, so lenses work on themo
> light. You can alos load normal slr cameras with IR film. However, I think
> for some wavelengths (the longesat ones), you need special glass and coatings,
> low reflectivity, I'd guess, as glass bounces low length IR.

Jus' a quick comment. Thermo and IR are _NOT_ the same thing. Thermo
is the ability to see heat. IR is like light, but on a different
wavelength(which humans can't percieve).
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:56:00 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Skills
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> > > Or just be patient and wait until SR3 comes out, since we are no longer
> > > using a skill web, or so it has been foretold...
> > Whyzat?
> SR3 apparently does away with the skill web in favor of putting
> them in skill groups linked to specific attributes. I don't know if I
> like this, but I'll see about that when I get my SR3. If need be,
> I'm going to create my own skill web for 3rd edition.

Oh, okay. As long as they're not totally getting rid of the concept.
That's one of the things I like about SR's skill system.
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:16:11 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Greg Symons <gsymons@******.TEMPLE.EDU>
Subject: Re: License plates
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

[snip barcodes and letters]

David wrote:
>Or, better yet, use the same technology that they're using at some
toll
>booths in the US. A person can buy a credit card sized transponder
>from the company that operates the toll booth. They put the
>transponder in their rear window. As they drive through the toll
gate
>(at highway speed) a sensor in the booth registers the transponder
and
>matches it's signal with the owner and adds the toll fee to their
>monthly bill.
>
>Now combine that technology with the paranoia and big brother
mentality of
>Shadowrun.
>
>Each license plate has a transponder embeded in it (the transponder
>signal matches the plate ID).
>
>LoneStar can query the transponder and match the license plate with
the
>car it's registered to, it's owner, and from their access the owner's
>police records. At a touch of a button they can have all the
>information they need to make a decision on how to handle the
>situation.
>
>Likewise monitoring devices could be set up on the highways and at
>intersections to monitor traffic and issue fines automatically to
>violaters of traffic laws.
>
>These same monitoring devices could also track specific vehicles
(bank
>robbers) allowing LoneStar to set up roadblocks ahead of them.
>
>Of course, this opens up a whole new commerce in illegal plates and
>jobs for deckers to alter records and overide monitoring stations :)
>

I always kinda liked the way they handled licenses and traffic
violations in _The Fifth Element_. For those who haven't seen (heathen
dogs!:) or don't remember (I _guess_ I can forgive you... _this_
time:) the movie, everyone had a "Multipass" (read SINned credstick)
which was not only required to start the car, but also kept track of
traffic violations. If you violated the speed limit, the pass would (I
think; there weren't any actual speeding violations in the film, only
crashes:) automatically update your traffic record.

Yet another reason to make sure you have several fake SIN's:)

Greg



*********************************************************************
* *
* \ (__) Greg Symons <gsymons@******.temple.edu> *
* \\(oo) Seanchai/ and Follower of Bri\de *
* /-----\\\/ *
* / | (##) "Hearken closely and you shall hear the *
* * ||----||" sound of cows and bagpipes upon the heath" *
* ^^ ^^ *
*********************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:20:57 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Greg Symons <gsymons@******.TEMPLE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re Location
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>> Oh what the heck while we're at it I just moved to Atlanta Ga. last
[big snip, as the quotes aren't really necessary:]

Well, since everyone else is advertising, I might as well, too. If
there's anyone in the Philadelphia area, (I know Blackjack is, but I
use too much of his material in my scenarios;) I'm gonna try to start
somethin' up when I get back to school. Right now I have one or two
definite players, and some people I can try, but some more would be
nice.

Greg


*********************************************************************
* *
* \ (__) Greg Symons <gsymons@******.temple.edu> *
* \\(oo) Seanchai/ and Follower of Bri\de *
* /-----\\\/ *
* / | (##) "Hearken closely and you shall hear the *
* * ||----||" sound of cows and bagpipes upon the heath" *
* ^^ ^^ *
*********************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:21:22 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Eureka! - ShadowRN "Who's Who" Deciphered!
In-Reply-To: <35C57F4E.3FA6DE6F@********.com> from "Caric" at Aug 3,
98 09:13:52 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Caric hastily scribble thusly...
|I never thought i'd live to see the day when Spike was used as the yardstick
|or normalcy.

<twilight zone music>

I'm perfectly normal, it's the rest of the world that's screwey....

</twilight zone music>
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:22:39 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

> > >Hey, I just had a thought. If someone with thermographic vision
> (be it
> > >through natural eyes or cyberware) looks through an optical image
> magnifier
> > >(not electronic), will they still be able to see in the thermo
> spectrum?
> > You mean an optical telscope, right? The answer is a fim maybe.
> > Obviously, thermographic imaging systems use lenses, so lenses work
> on themo
> > light. You can alos load normal slr cameras with IR film. However,
> I think
> > for some wavelengths (the longesat ones), you need special glass and
> coatings,
> > low reflectivity, I'd guess, as glass bounces low length IR.
>
> Jus' a quick comment. Thermo and IR are _NOT_ the same thing. Thermo
> is the ability to see heat. IR is like light, but on a different
> wavelength(which humans can't percieve).
>
I see what you are saying, but I think that most (if not
all) our current "heat sensing" tech is passive IR. Is there another way
to do this?
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:25:09 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: HoL
In-Reply-To: <199808031754.NAA03710@******.mindspring.com> from "MC23" at
Aug
3, 98 01:53:55 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did MC23 hastily scribble thusly...
|-Master Collector 23, who is boggled over the absence of Toon-

HE SLIPPED UP!!!!

I DON'T BELIEVE HE SLIPPED UP!

AT LAST! Now we know what MC stands for, it's only a matter of time before
you slip up again and we find your name....

EGMLOL!
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:25:18 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: Skills
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

> > > > Or just be patient and wait until SR3 comes out, since we are no
> longer
> > > > using a skill web, or so it has been foretold...
> > > Whyzat?
> > SR3 apparently does away with the skill web in favor of putting
> > them in skill groups linked to specific attributes. I don't know if
> I
> > like this, but I'll see about that when I get my SR3. If need be,
> > I'm going to create my own skill web for 3rd edition.
>
> Oh, okay. As long as they're not totally getting rid of the concept.
> That's one of the things I like about SR's skill system.
>
I have a player who has been a thorn in my ass since the
latest game started. One of his main bitch points is that its a lot
easier to get a TN with his 6 charisma than with his 1 skill, even if
its a 16 TN statistically his chances are better with the 6 dice.
He and I have both been playing White Wolf's system for
many years and grew to like the Stat+Skill system very much. It is
practical, versatile and makes sense. I hope they move towards that so I
can shut this guy up.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:26:20 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Dhl9@***.COM
Subject: Re: License plates
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Before everyone goes digging through their books I found the information on
barcodes in Lone Star.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:27:32 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: License plates
In-Reply-To: <199808032054.OAA15412@******.carl.org>

On 3 Aug 98, at 14:54, David Buehrer wrote:

> Or, better yet, use the same technology that they're using at some toll
> booths in the US. A person can buy a credit card sized transponder from
> the company that operates the toll booth. They put the transponder in
> their rear window. As they drive through the toll gate (at highway speed)
> a sensor in the booth registers the transponder and matches it's signal
> with the owner and adds the toll fee to their monthly bill.
>
> Now combine that technology with the paranoia and big brother mentality of
> Shadowrun.
<snipped examples>

Great idea, David. I like it. This is not only feasible, but likely.
As one who is developing a Lone Star campaign, this is quite timely.
Hope you don't mind if I use it... :)

> Of course, this opens up a whole new commerce in illegal plates and
> jobs for deckers to alter records and overide monitoring stations :)

Absolutely. Fine stuff. :)

--

=================================================================
- Tim Kerby - drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
=================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:28:40 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: HoL
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

> And verily, did MC23 hastily scribble thusly...
> |-Master Collector 23, who is boggled over the absence of Toon-
>
> HE SLIPPED UP!!!!
>
> I DON'T BELIEVE HE SLIPPED UP!
>
> AT LAST! Now we know what MC stands for, it's only a matter of time
> before
> you slip up again and we find your name....
>
> EGMLOL!
>
>
Hell if you want his name, I know it.

Its.......AHHHHHSHUIHsdfhsdlkjadhfjgdg4@#$!40<gurgle> no
please!! AIEEEEEE!!!!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:33:06 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: HoL
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Once upon a time, Spike wrote;

>And verily, did MC23 hastily scribble thusly...
>|-Master Collector 23, who is boggled over the absence of Toon-
>
>HE SLIPPED UP!!!!
>
>I DON'T BELIEVE HE SLIPPED UP!
>
>AT LAST! Now we know what MC stands for, it's only a matter of time before
>you slip up again and we find your name....
>
>EGMLOL!

Tip of the iceberg Spike. Tip of the iceberg.
You now know _one_ meaning of MC. If you had true illumination you would
know the definition is far more complex than that.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

"When _I_ use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful
tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."
-Through the Looking Glass

I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:34:12 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: HoL
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Once upon a time, Bryan Covington wrote;

> Hell if you want his name, I know it.
>
> Its.......AHHHHHSHUIHsdfhsdlkjadhfjgdg4@#$!40<gurgle> no
>please!! AIEEEEEE!!!!

<eyes stop glowing>

now behave.


<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:36:35 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Favorite totem? [was: Guess what!!]
In-Reply-To: <199808031828.OAA18686@****.atl.bellsouth.net> from "Steve
Collins" at Aug 3, 98 02:38:50 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Steve Collins hastily scribble thusly...
|
|Racoon Ususally does it for me. Because curiosity killed the cat but
|racoon was able to figure out how to disarm the trap. :)

Hehehehe....
Sorry, I can't resist...

<Bursts into song>
Racoon searchin' high an' low...
For the food that make 'im go.
If I catch 'im in my trap
Gonna make me a racoon hat...
</Brusts into song>

[From the episode "Between a racoon and a hard place" of Reboot]
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:34:15 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shamanic Mask
In-Reply-To: <81F7A43B468BD111AFEC00A024EA0A2B7EF68B@*********.polytech. ac.nz>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:05 AM 8/3/98 +1200, you wrote:

>>Oh, K and I have agreed upon something about the SR3 rule about the max
>number
>>of successes a spell can have ... instead of the force of the spell ...
>we are
>>going to use the Magic attribute (Essence + Grade, only) to determine
>the max
>>number of success possible.
>
>I realise this is probably a silly question, but won't that be even more
>reason to learn spells at (Magic) or less?

Yes, since the intent of the rule change as I understand it was to get rid
of those damn Force 1 and 2 spells that would then have 10 Spell pool dice
behind it. By going with Keith and Mike's house rule, it probably allows
them to not have to change their PCs at all. It also opens up the magical
power curve quite a bit. Instead of having to relearn all your spells at a
higher Force, which would certainly cost massive amounts of karma, you
would simply initiate and get an improved result.

I really don't like this particular house rule and I would strongly suggest
Mike and Keith that you read SR3 very carefully (well, we all should)
before making any house rules. This one in particular seems very open to
abuse.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:39:49 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: [OT] Black Cauldron
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Cool! Disney is releasing the Black Cauldron on Video!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:35:15 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: UB and Scientology [was: UB]
In-Reply-To: <5c448193.35c26b5e@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 09:11 PM 7/31/98 EDT, you wrote:
>When I think of scientology, I think gnostic,

From what I've heard, that wouldn't be too far off from the truth. I
really dislike and distrust Scientology also, but I'd remind everyone to
mind their P's and Q's when it comes to religion.

> which takes me right to secret
>societies. Is anybody making use of the Black Lodge? Right now I am having to
>rein myself in on just how many secret societies I have running loose in my
>game. The Pentultimate master practices magic on a level unequaled in the 6th
>world. I can't be the only one intrigued by that.

Well, I won't get into it, but the Black Lodge really irked me. Let's just
say I found it extremely unrealistic and leave it at that.

I answered the magic thing by saying that they practiced rituals that go
back to the 4th age. It can do funky stuff, but has to be done in a ritual
fashion, material, verbal and somatic components being necessary. So no
"Poof! Death Spell" at the drop of a hat, but with the right ritual, things
like teleportation and disintegration would be possible.

>On the FASA boards here at
>AOL I asked has the Black Lodge been battling the Atlantean Foundation down
>through the ages? I asked the question twice and it was never responded to.

I think I remember that (my home e-mail is via AOL). It's the sort of
question that they generally don't answer, since it's something that is
really up to the individual GM. It's certainly possible though. They both
seem to have ulterior motives to their actions, so I don't think either
side could be the good guys.

>Are there magical human immortals too?

Well, you might be able to extend life with magic, that's a common thread
in nearly every magical culture and fiction I've ever read. But probably
not immortal. They'd probably be a bit like those "Watchers" from the
Highlander TV series, that group of humans that watched the Highlanders
from a distance. They simply passed down every little scrap of info they
had. So while the members wouldn't be immortal, their knowledge and their
goals would be.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:36:19 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shamanic Mask
In-Reply-To: <7794b4ab.35c55d03@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 02:47 AM 8/3/98 EDT, you wrote:

>> >The more power any magically active individual cranks out (especially
>> >initiates) the more obvious the mask (as even hermetics have one too)
>> >becomes.
>>
>A "mask" per se, no they do not have, but they do have a "manifesting
trait"
>to their magical signature. It's in some of the SR books, but most of it is
>actually optional rules anyway.

Um, what? A manifesting trait to their aura and/or spell signatur when
they cast spells or are magically active?

Please cite and elaborate. This sounds like yet another house rule.

I know there's the whole spell signature thing and all, but I don't recall
ever reading that a mage ever had anything even remotely resembling a
shamanic mask, nor a magical signature (spell signature, yes, but I'm not
sure this is what you are referring to).

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:42:53 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: HoL
In-Reply-To: <199808032133.RAA25589@********.mindspring.com> from "MC23"
at
Aug 3, 98 05:33:06 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did MC23 hastily scribble thusly...
| Tip of the iceberg Spike. Tip of the iceberg.
|You now know _one_ meaning of MC. If you had true illumination you would
|know the definition is far more complex than that.

Please don't tell me there's a hidden i or j in there as well, PLEASE!
I loath complex numbers.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:43:47 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] Black Cauldron
In-Reply-To: <9742dac4.35c62e26@***.com> from "Nexx Many-Scars" at Aug 3,
98 05:39:49 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Nexx Many-Scars hastily scribble thusly...
|
|Cool! Disney is releasing the Black Cauldron on Video!
|

I could've sword they did that already...
Maybe it's a re-release.

Besides, it's nowhere near as good as the books.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:50:10 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Black Cauldron
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-03 17:44:10 EDT, you write:

> |Cool! Disney is releasing the Black Cauldron on Video!
> |
>
> I could've sword they did that already...
> Maybe it's a re-release.
>
> Besides, it's nowhere near as good as the books.

Of course its nowhere near as good as the books (which I was fortunate enought
to find all of the Prydain books in a single hardback for $5... gods, I love
used bookstores), but its still cool... I haven't seen that in years.

Nexx
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:44:32 +0100
Reply-To: "kurt.bath" <kurt.bath@******.net>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "kurt.bath" <kurt.bath@******.NET>
Subject: Stupid news paper reports
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0070_01BDBEFD.FD81FDC0"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0070_01BDBEFD.FD81FDC0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hey Spike did you read the news paper today?

(That goes out to any other person from Britain on the list.)

There was this news paper article, that stated that a british trash man =
found a set of top secret papers in the rubbish at a house he collected =
from.

This sounds like a good plot for a shadowrun. You are contacted by your =
johnson after rumours hit the street that a trash man has found hard =
copies of a file detailing the new Aztechnology cyberware. You are =
either hired to clean up the mess and make all evidence disappear or to =
steal the hard copies before the are lost.

------=_NextPart_000_0070_01BDBEFD.FD81FDC0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content='"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=GENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#e8e8d0>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Hey Spike did you read the news =
paper
today?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>(That goes out to any other person =
from Britain
on the list.)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>There was this news paper article, =
that stated
that a british trash man found a set of top secret papers in the rubbish =
at a
house he collected from.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>This sounds like a good plot for a =
shadowrun.
You are contacted by your johnson after rumours hit the street that a =
trash man
has found hard copies of a file detailing the new Aztechnology =
cyberware. You
are either hired to clean up the mess and make all evidence disappear or =
to
steal the hard copies before the are
lost.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:52:40 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: [OT] Black Cauldron
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

> And verily, did Nexx Many-Scars hastily scribble thusly...
> |
> |Cool! Disney is releasing the Black Cauldron on Video!
> |
>
> I could've sword they did that already...
> Maybe it's a re-release.
>
> Besides, it's nowhere near as good as the books.
>
It has been out for a while on video. This is a
RE-release. Digitally remastered. Looks brighter (the colors not the
story). Less grainy than the original.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 18:17:22 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shamanic Mask
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 8/3/98 4:40:31 PM US Eastern Standard Time, erikj@****.COM
writes:

> Yes, since the intent of the rule change as I understand it was to get rid
> of those damn Force 1 and 2 spells that would then have 10 Spell pool dice
> behind it. By going with Keith and Mike's house rule, it probably allows
> them to not have to change their PCs at all. It also opens up the magical
> power curve quite a bit. Instead of having to relearn all your spells at a
> higher Force, which would certainly cost massive amounts of karma, you
> would simply initiate and get an improved result.
>
> I really don't like this particular house rule and I would strongly suggest
> Mike and Keith that you read SR3 very carefully (well, we all should)
> before making any house rules. This one in particular seems very open to
> abuse.

Okay ... here is a question then about this limitation then ... what happens
when someone gets a skill in Sorcery which is higher than the highest force
spell they have ... irregardless of the skill rating, they will never get more
successes than some Joe Mage on the street who has the same spell at the same
force (but making the difference in skill with fetishes and the like).

What then is the reason to have a good Sorcery skill then if the spell is
going to be limiting force then ?

And, yes, I am going to read the SR3 once K gets back here with it on Sunday.
And then K and I will see what to do about the house rule.

-Herc
------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 18:31:22 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Drew Curtis <dcurtis@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Force vs. Success (Re: Shamanic Mask)
In-Reply-To: <004001bdbf25$01c31820$6fbeadce@****>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Mongoose wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Drew Curtis <dcurtis@***.NET>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
> Date: Monday, August 03, 1998 6:49 AM
> Subject: Re: Force vs. Success (Re: Shamanic Mask)
>
> >Also, another compelling reason to learn a force 7 spell with magic 6 is
> >that you raise your _average_ number of successes. The max is still the
> >same (6 successes), but if you're not already rolling your full 6 each
> >time, you might want that extra die in there to potentially boost your
> >successes (from say 4 to 5 if the extra die is a success).
>
>
> If you are discussing sr3 spell casting , and have been exposed to those
> rules, my question to you is: what extra casting dice does that higher force
> spell give? Just where exactly do spell casting test dice come from in sr3,
> and how many are rolled??
>
> What, another thing Bull didn't mention??? :)
>

I think Bull did mention it but for the life of me I can't recall the
specifics. Perhaps someone who can remember could privide the answer?

Drew Curtis, President, Digital Crescent, Incorporated
http://www.dcr.net (502) 226 3376 Internet and Software Design services.
Offering dial-up Access from Frankfort to Louisville and all points between.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 08:48:45 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: "The Mystic Knights of Tir na Og"
In-Reply-To: <35C6209E.8452710@******.rose-hulman.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

John E Pederson writes:
> > They cancelled Roar!, but they're going to show this hokey
> piece of crap?

They cancelled Roar? Excellent! Now for Xena!

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:04:15 +0800
Reply-To: Oliver McDonald <oliver@*********.com>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Oliver McDonald <oliver@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:54:16 -0400, Bai Shen wrote:

>Jus' a quick comment. Thermo and IR are _NOT_ the same thing. Thermo
>is the ability to see heat. IR is like light, but on a different
>wavelength(which humans can't percieve).

Uh, Ben, IR light is what is seen by people/cameras that see heat. One and the same
thing.
IR standing for InfraRed.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Oliver McDonald - oliver@*********.com
http://web2.spydernet.com

Space. The Final Frontier. Let's not close it down.

Brought to you via CyberSpace, the recursive frontier.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:09:55 +0800
Reply-To: Oliver McDonald <oliver@*********.com>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Oliver McDonald <oliver@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Skills
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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On Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:25:18 -0400, bryan.covington@****.COM wrote:

> I have a player who has been a thorn in my ass since the
>latest game started. One of his main bitch points is that its a lot
>easier to get a TN with his 6 charisma than with his 1 skill, even if
>its a 16 TN statistically his chances are better with the 6 dice.
> He and I have both been playing White Wolf's system for
>many years and grew to like the Stat+Skill system very much. It is
>practical, versatile and makes sense. I hope they move towards that so I
>can shut this guy up.


By the rules, you can only use the skill web if you do not have an applicable skill.

If a player starts playing rules lawyer, and being a thorn in the Ms ass, the GM is well
advised to tell him to smarten up, or find the door.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Oliver McDonald - oliver@*********.com
http://web2.spydernet.com

Space. The Final Frontier. Let's not close it down.

Brought to you via CyberSpace, the recursive frontier.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 11:39:38 +1200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: HoL
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Quoth David Buehrer (0413 4-8-98 NZT):

<<SLICE>>
>/ HoL? HoL!? You mean...I'm not the only freak out there who actually
played
>/ the game?

<<SLICE>>

>...you're kidding, right? Anyone that enjoys a game where it is
>possible to blow a hole the size of Slim Whitman in your opponent is
>not normal. Not that there's anything wrong with that ;)

Now this I have _gotta_ learn more about <g>. Exactly what is HoL?
(Please define the acronym and give a brief game-concept precis.)

Danyel Woods - 9604801@********.ac.nz
'No, I'm Chaos and he's Mayhem. We're a double act.'
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 19:43:48 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
In-Reply-To: <4fbd12ee.35c60536@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 02:45 PM 8/3/98 EDT, you wrote:

>K and -I- are not intending on driving Adam out ... all we are asking is that
>something not be shot down as -STUPID- like Adam said ... and as for
>responding in a certain way ... that is not a choice on our parts ... this is
>sanctioned in the FAQ as canon for the list ...

And it looks like GridSec did it's job and asked him *politely* to simply
follow the current posting conventions.

I didn't get the impression he said the idea was stupid, he just called it
into question and rejected it based on his knowledge of current technology.
It's a bit harsh, but I saw it as a reality check, not a slam.

>> What's going on here, as I see it, is a difference in philosophy. Adam is
>> looking at things from a real world and current perspective. Which I
agree
>> with. Mike and Keith tend to say "Well, yeah, but look at 2060 tech
and it
>> probably can be done by then."
>
>Correct ... and we also tend not to weight future tech with the
constraints of
>today's knowledge either ...

Actually, without knowing much about the topic at hand, it would appear
that you are ignoring key elements of current knowledge and technology.
You've latched onto a few key points, glossed over the others, and launched
headfirst into a concept that seems highly unlikely. In addition, while
Adam brought up some apparently very valid scientific facts, your defense
seemed to be primarily variations on "this is a game, not real life" and
"tech will have advanced by 2060." Both of which are indeed valid points,
but not something upon which an entire arguement can rest.

Adam, as near as I can tell, is correct in his analysis. You and Keith
however, are also right in that it *may* be possible in 2060 for at least
some of those problems he brought up to be solved, through any number of
various technological means, none of which are currently known.

But as someone else brought up (Nexx?) a ghillie suit won't hide heat very
well, nor will is hide an astral aura. And to relate it to a great
recent/current thread, it probably won't hide your smell either (great,
great thread, even if I don't know much about it, not even enough to fake
it; very informative and helpful!).

So let's instead refocus our discussion of the 2060 ghillie suit. The
current version of 1998 works on the pure visual side of things perfectly
well. Done right, people looking for you will actually walk right on top
of you without ever noticing you; Durty Dan (his articles are on the
Warpig) was a sniper once and claimed that experience. So that bit
probably won't be improved, even with RP.

Can't really do much about the astral signature, though if you make sure to
hide in areas with lots of plants, you might be able to obscure your aura
just enough that glances might not catch you.

Heat? Probably would be best to not contain body heat. Probably far
better to let if difuse, but in a far different pattern than is normal for
a human body. Bring down the overall heat signature and let it radiate in
a dimmer, non-human form. You'd also have to give the snipers extra
training in heat signatures and how to use them to their utmost; don't lay
out in the sun and then stand up next to a cool building, that sort of thing.

Smell? I don't see why a ghillie suit can't have odors built into it.
Wouldn't have to be powerful smells, but just enough to mask normal human
odor with something else. Or perhaps a "perfume" that would bond with
human odors to alter it's smell into something non-human? We are talking
about chemicals after all.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 20:01:07 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Sperethiel Dictionary -Reply
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 8/3/98 11:40:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
DeckerL@******.COM writes:

> >Me too, but OTOH I feel Mike is steering SR away too far from
> >what SR was until he took over...

<snip>
> I'll work with you somewhat on this, but I see it a bit differently.
> I feel like Mike is trying to cover the basis.
<snip>
> Hopefully SR3 will get back to the core ideas
> a bit more however. :) Most runners (IMHO) aren't white
> knights, and may only be in it for the money. But you'd
> hope we all aren't. :)
>
There is also the fact that they dropped the Neo-A's, which seemed to be one
of the more altruistic groups of 1st Ed.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 20:06:43 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: License plates
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 8/3/98 12:37:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
bryan.covington@****.COM writes:

> > The technology for the licence plate/ticket thing is alive and well in
> > Australia.
<snip>

I have seen a lot of of those systems on TV. They are being fought here in
the US on some levels. Basically the lawyers say it comes down to the innocent
until proven guilty idea, if the person lends a car out and the driver speeds,
the owner gets the ticket and must go to court to "prove" his/her innocence.
The barcode system would be the same, except for a photo would not be
issued, just a reading of the barcode and the info would come through on a
computer.
So if you speed, you might not even be home before you recieve an e-mail
saying you have been fined:-)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 10:05:41 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
In-Reply-To: <7356faa5.35c3fa73@***.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Mike Bobroff writes:
> Okay, what happens then when the sniper's comm pack and other electronics
> begin to run out of power, what then?!? Does he carry extra batteries?!?
> Carrying extra batteries means carrying more weight, which means
> potentially
> less ammo being carried.

He's out of touch... shit happens. If he expected to be out that long, odds
are he took a few extra batteries (AA batteries aren't big), or he rationed
his use of the electronics.

As for ammo... a sniper wouldn't need to carry much ammo anyway. If he gets
into a long, drawn-out fire-fight, then he's already likely to be screwed.

> Suncell as per the R2 has no CF or Load Reduction ... it also
> produces in the
> range of 25 PF for just a single hour out in perfect conditions.

That's cause it sits on the roof, as a coating. Also, I can't see a person
carrying around the sort of batteries a car has...

--
Duct tape is like the Force: There's a Light side, a Dark side, and it
binds the Universe together.
Robert Watkins -- robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 10:16:03 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
In-Reply-To: <be2ab9ad.35c4de00@***.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Nexx writes:
> you of something. From what I've read (which is again, not that much... I
> can't seem to find R2), SR canon makes it possible to use more than just
> yellow-light collection, and to keep solar collection panels
> concealed while
> they're in use.

Where in SR canon does it say it's possible to keep solar collection panels
concealed while they're in use? If you mean concealed like "Okay, I build a
tube around it so that the light only reflects off that-away", then fine,
but give page and book references here.

Otherwise, there's nothing written about how well you can conceal solar
cells in use, and anything saying you can is a house rule, while anything
saying you can't is referring to modern physics (sort of like it doesn't
actually say anywhere in the rules that if you jump up, you come down...
it's sort of assumed).

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 18:50:37 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: HoL
In-Reply-To: <199808032345.RAA20734@******.carl.org> from "Danyel N
Woods" at
Aug 4, 98 11:39:38 am
Content-Type: text

Danyel N Woods wrote:
/
/ >...you're kidding, right? Anyone that enjoys a game where it is
/ >possible to blow a hole the size of Slim Whitman in your opponent is
/ >not normal. Not that there's anything wrong with that ;)
/
/ Now this I have _gotta_ learn more about <g>. Exactly what is HoL?
/ (Please define the acronym and give a brief game-concept precis.)

Human Occupied Landfill. Black Dog Game Factory. For Adults Only.

And from the back cover, "We know that look. That 'If I have to check
for traps one more time, I'm goig to sneak a spoonfull of drain cleaner
into the GM's Yoo-Hu and start screaming 'Guess you missed your save on
That one, MR. TEN-BY-TEN STONE CORRIDOR!!'' Look, you need help. You
need HoL. Science fiction roleplaying for gamers who've had a really
bad day. Get it before you hurt somebody."

"Classier than a twelve Ogre circle-jerk."

"More fun than a cow on laxatives."

"I wept. It made me weak. Burt, put on the rubber pants."

"HoL: The other white meat."

From the first page: "Warning: do Not read further if you are offended
by the following sentence: 'The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy
dog; what a fuckin' asshole.'"

"What is HoL? Ever been to New Jersey? Okay, now add some high
technology and make a planet out of it."

ISBN 1-56504-590-4 WW 5900

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 20:02:05 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Sperethiel Dictionary
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>> ...from what I've been able to see (and please note that I've not
>> played Earthdawn, just watched a game or two and casually scanned
>> the rules and one of the sourcebooks), I'm inclined to agree with
>> the former view.
>
>More or less the opposite of my first impression (gotten from one
>of the first three ED flyers from 1993). I thought it appeared to
>be closely linked to SR from the outset.

If words truer than "You're mileage may vary" have been spoken, it's hard
for me to think of what they might be.

Part of it could be prejudice on my part, too; my exposure to Earthdawn has
basically not been all that remarkable; I don't think it's all that a whole
bunch of people are cracking it up to be. I don't think it's worth my time
and effort to get involved with it any further than I already have, and I
don't think it's at all necessary.

>> He does appear to be going to some lengths to get away from that
>> particular aspect, yes. I doubt I'll ever use CYBERPIRATES for
>> anything, but I'm sure glad to see some expansion in the ways you
>> can use the system.
>
>Me too, but OTOH I feel Mike is steering SR away too far from
>what SR was until he took over...

This might sound like a complete reversal of what I've said previously, but
I tend to agree with you a little here. I think it's just a case of
overcompensating; give it a little time and I think we'll start to see it
getting back to normal. More or less.

>No, I don't mean the whole IE plot (which I like, provided it's not
>overdone) but if you ask me SR is about shadowrunners doing shadowruns
>for whatever personal reasons they have.

Agreed, up to and including immortal elves (which are present in my game;
they don't have anything to do with what the characters are doing, but
they're there).

>My impression of Mike's view is that it's about everything but
>shadowrunners (see Companion, Underworld, Cyberpirates), and that
>shadowrunners should do the Right Thing(tm).

I tend to agree, up to a point, but I still think it's a good thing to show
what all can be done within the game system. I like UNDERWORLD, for
instance, not so much because I want my players to be able to run Mafiosi,
but because it gives me insight into an element of the shadowrunner's world
that the runners are going to run into one of these days, sooner than later.

I like CYBERPIRATES because I've always had a soft spot in my heart for
CAPTAIN BLOOD. I love those old Errol Flynn pictures....

All in all, though, it doesn't matter what Mulvihill thinks; it's what we,
as GMs and player, think that counts.

>But let's not turn this into a rant :)

But you were doing so well there for a minute....

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:02:27 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Grahamdrew <mnemonic25@*********.COM>
Subject: SR3 Info!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I don't know if this is BS or what, but I was on IRC and a guy poped
into one of the DALnet Shadowrun channels. We started talking and the
coversation shifted to SR3, he wanted to know if it was out yet. We
talked about it for a second and said the magic system was really
diffrent in SR3, we asked him how he knew...

Aparently soume FASA representitives were at the Chiago Comix Con (can
anyone confirm/deny?) and they were explaning some of the changes in
SR3... (he was kinda vauge on that, adding to the BS probibility...
but) Well he said that the magic system was going to be based more like
they were skills (not sure really what that means) and mentioned a few
othr changes. If anyone else wants the exact logs, send via private
email.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:07:32 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> > Jus' a quick comment. Thermo and IR are _NOT_ the same thing. Thermo
> > is the ability to see heat. IR is like light, but on a different
> > wavelength(which humans can't percieve).
> I see what you are saying, but I think that most (if not
> all) our current "heat sensing" tech is passive IR. Is there another way
> to do this?

-sigh- IR and heat are totally different!! When you use IR for seeing,
you send out a beam, and then use special goggles to actually see the
light(basically like using a flashlight, but on a frequency invisible to
normal humans).
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:11:38 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: HoL
In-Reply-To: <81F7A43B468BD111AFEC00A024EA0A2B7EF68C@*********.polytech. ac.nz>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

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At 11:39 AM 8/4/98 +1200, Danyel wrote:
>Now this I have _gotta_ learn more about <g>. Exactly what is HoL?
>(Please define the acronym and give a brief game-concept precis.)

I can do both, in three words:
Human Occupied Landfil.
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--
-- Paul Gettle (RunnerPaul@********.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
(Public Key available by Finger)

You dare defy my whims?!?
I am the game master; you are my pawns!
I created the world you see before you!
I control your fate!"
-- Dexter, Dexter's Laboratory.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:11:41 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Gravity: FoF, p.76 [was: Camo and Ruthenium]
In-Reply-To: <001101bdbf3d$10dd70e0$5e5211ac@********.mincom.oz.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Disclaimer: This is not a serious post. I'll put a smiley right here
to prove it. :)

At 10:16 AM 8/4/98 +1000, Robert wrote:
>Otherwise, there's nothing written about how well you can conceal
solar
>cells in use, and anything saying you can is a house rule, while
anything
>saying you can't is referring to modern physics (sort of like it
doesn't
>actually say anywhere in the rules that if you jump up, you come
down...
>it's sort of assumed).

Actually, rules for the situation you describe in that last sentence
there are detailed on p. 76 of Fields of Fire, under the heading
"Falling."

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--
-- Paul Gettle (RunnerPaul@********.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
(Public Key available by Finger)

You dare defy my whims?!?
I am the game master; you are my pawns!
I created the world you see before you!
I control your fate!"
-- Dexter, Dexter's Laboratory.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 18:11:29 +0000
Reply-To: nylar@********.com
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Thomas Berman <nylar@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Skills
In-Reply-To: <SHADOWRN%98080118522690@********.ITRIBE.NET>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Right, you forgot one... :)

Writing
Expository
Journalism
Letter Writing
Beauracratic
Creative
Novel
Poetry
Short Story
Playwrighting

Would be interesting to have an SR character who was a novelist...
Almost all my Mage: The Ascension chars were writers in their spare
time, it would be interesting to see how it would work in SR. Also,
for Impact tests, Intelligence is used as attribute instead of
Charisma.


------------------------------
Thomas "Nylar" Berman
"Dump Shock - Taste The Magic!"

gametheory@***********.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:14:52 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
Comments: To: Oliver McDonald <oliver@*********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> >Jus' a quick comment. Thermo and IR are _NOT_ the same thing. Thermo
> >is the ability to see heat. IR is like light, but on a different
> >wavelength(which humans can't percieve).
> Uh, Ben, IR light is what is seen by people/cameras that see heat. One and the same
> thing. IR standing for InfraRed.

First off, the name's Bai Shen, not Ben. Secondly, IR is as you said,
LIGHT. It's simply a different frequency than visible light. It
doesn't measure heat.
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 18:17:00 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Alexia <alexia_silverstein@*****.COM>
Subject: Rigging and Bioware
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Would the advantages my Rigger gets from an Adrenal pump go towards
her control pool or no? It's bioware, not cyberware...




==
~Alexia
http://www.sova.net/trish/shadowrun



_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 11:17:28 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Gravity: FoF, p.76 [was: Camo and Ruthenium]
In-Reply-To: <199808040111.VAA17422@*****.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Paul Gettle writes:
> Disclaimer: This is not a serious post. I'll put a smiley right here
> to prove it. :)

This is an equally unserious post. Here's my smilely: {:-B

> >saying you can't is referring to modern physics (sort of like it
> doesn't
> >actually say anywhere in the rules that if you jump up, you come
> down...
> >it's sort of assumed).
>
> Actually, rules for the situation you describe in that last sentence
> there are detailed on p. 76 of Fields of Fire, under the heading
> "Falling."

And it doesn't describe jumping... it just says what happens to you when you
fall, not what situations you will fall in. {:-B

(For the smilely impared, that's a buck-toothed guy with a bad haircut)

--
Duct tape is like the Force: There's a Light side, a Dark side, and it
binds the Universe together.
Robert Watkins -- robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 11:26:52 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
In-Reply-To: <35C6608C.188E@**********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Bai Shen writes:
> First off, the name's Bai Shen, not Ben. Secondly, IR is as you said,
> LIGHT. It's simply a different frequency than visible light. It
> doesn't measure heat.

Heat is a function of the vibration of the molecules of the object, and is
really an expression of kinetic energy. One interesting side effect is that
most objects which are hot will radiate infra-red light.

IR goggles work by using goggles which are sensitive to IR and blue-shift
the light to the visible spectrum. This is often (not always) combined with
an IR flashlight.

Thermographic goggles work by examining the amount of infra-red radiation
emitted (and reflected) by objects and displaying it in a sort of
colour-coded contour-graph showing how much IR radiation is emitted by
objects, relative to everything else around it.

As quoted earlier, all "heat sensing" devices are a form of passive IR
detection. (Qualifer: okay, that should be remote heat sensing devices... a
thermometer doesn't work like that)

--
sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:27:00 +1200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: Force vs. Success (Re: Shamanic Mask)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Quoth Drew Curtis (1031 4-8-98 NZT):

<<SLICE>>
>> If you are discussing sr3 spell casting , and have been exposed to
those
>> rules, my question to you is: what extra casting dice does that
higher force
>> spell give? Just where exactly do spell casting test dice come from
in sr3,
>> and how many are rolled??
>>
>> What, another thing Bull didn't mention??? :)
>>
>
>I think Bull did mention it but for the life of me I can't recall the
>specifics. Perhaps someone who can remember could privide the answer?

From what I read in the logs, under SR3 rules, you cast a spell with
your Sorcery/Spell-casting skill, not its Force. This is dandy for
those who want to specialise in spell-casting, but for one minor detail:
casting Force acts as a maximum limit on your spell success. Steve K
gave the example of a guy with Sorcery 6, 'Magic' Pool 5, casting a
spell at Force 3; he rolls eleven dice, but the Force means that even if
he rolls eleven successes, he only gets the effects of three.

My original point was that, under this SR3 system, it is worthwhile to
cast spells that exceed your Magic attribute, for the reason that even
though you take physical drain, you still smack the target good. Under
Mike Bobroff's modified rule, casting higher than your Magic attribute
is pointless (except for the opposing wards business K mentioned - I
won't comment on that, since most of the magic I deal with is
straight-up no-favours-to-anyone spellcasting - and the 'average
successes' stuff; good point, but is it worth Physical drain?).

Example: Voodoo is a mage with some cyber. She has Magic 4,
Spell-casting 9, and decides to cast a Force 9 Fire Dart (her only
combat spell), figuring toasting that vampire is worth Physical drain.
Through some fluke of luck, she rolls 9 successes.
*Vanilla SR3 rules:*
The Fire Dart arrives on target, inflicting a base of Light Damage;
Voodoo's nine successes stage it up to Deadly with three left-over
successes to soak.
Scratch one vampire.
Now Voodoo has to soak Physical drain at Force 9; she's used her issue
of luck for today, and ends up taking a Light wound. It hurts, but she
doesn't have to worry about the bloodsucker any more.
*Mike Bobroff's house rule:*
Since Voodoo gets the benefit of only four successes, the Fire Dart
inflicts only Severe damage.
The vampire's hurt, but he's still coming and now he's pissed enough to
tear Voodoo limb from limb. Between his anger and the injury from the
drain, Voodoo's about to have one of _those_ days...

For my money, if this rule works for Mike and K's game group -
remembering that most of these characters are *heavy-duty* initiates -
they can knock themselves out. But since the highest initiate in my
campaign is an NPC (grade 3), I think I'll stick with the vanilla rules
for the moment, thank you very much. :-)

Danyel Woods - 9604801@********.ac.nz
'No, I'm Chaos and he's Mayhem. We're a double act.'
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:41:09 +1200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: HoL
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Quoth David Buehrer (04-8-98 NZT):

<<SLICE>>
>/ Now this I have _gotta_ learn more about <g>. Exactly what is HoL?
>/ (Please define the acronym and give a brief game-concept precis.)
>
>Human Occupied Landfill. Black Dog Game Factory. For Adults Only.
>
>And from the back cover, "We know that look. That 'If I have to check
>for traps one more time, I'm goig to sneak a spoonfull of drain cleaner
>into the GM's Yoo-Hu and start screaming 'Guess you missed your save on
>That one, MR. TEN-BY-TEN STONE CORRIDOR!!'' Look, you need help. You
>need HoL. Science fiction roleplaying for gamers who've had a really
>bad day. Get it before you hurt somebody."
>
>"Classier than a twelve Ogre circle-jerk."
>
>"More fun than a cow on laxatives."
>
>"I wept. It made me weak. Burt, put on the rubber pants."
>
>"HoL: The other white meat."
>
>From the first page: "Warning: do Not read further if you are offended
>by the following sentence: 'The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy
>dog; what a fuckin' asshole.'"
>
>"What is HoL? Ever been to New Jersey? Okay, now add some high
>technology and make a planet out of it."
<<SLICE>>

<Trying to keep from ROFLMAO...>
<deadpan>
Hmm. Sounds interesting. Might have to take a look at it some time...
</deadpan>

And I thought Shadowrun was supposed to be a violence-ridden
catharsis... <G>

Danyel Woods - 9604801@********.ac.nz
'No, I'm Chaos and he's Mayhem. We're a double act.'
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:49:15 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Grahamdrew <mnemonic25@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Location
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Jus' outta curiousity, are there any SR players in the VA area? I
> haven't had much luck with findin' a group. :(

Ok, well the thought comes up...

Does anyone play Shadowrun in Maryland

Grahamdrew, who thinks Maryland is the gaming black hole of the universe
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:53:44 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: SR Drinking Game Addition
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Greetings!!!

The SR Drinking game should be called "Shadow Rum" <g>

-Bandit
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:56:43 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
In-Reply-To: <35C65ED4.25F1@**********.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

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At 09:07 PM 8/3/98 -0400, Bai Shen wrote:
>-sigh- IR and heat are totally different!! When you use IR for
seeing,
>you send out a beam, and then use special goggles to actually see the
>light(basically like using a flashlight, but on a frequency invisible
to
>normal humans).

Radio waves, microwaves, radiant heat, the visible spectrum and
wavelengths near it, x-rays, and gamma rays are all part of the
electromagnetic spectrum. They are all forms of radiant energy that
can apear as either a waveform, or as a stream of particles called
photons.

The word infrared actually describes the part of the electromagnetic
spectrum that lies between microwave radio, and the red end of the
Visible Spectrum. This includes both what I'll call Near IR, those
wavelengths that are relatively close to the visible spectrum, and
behave much the same way light does, and what I'll call Heat IR, which
are the waves put out by hot objects, that can, in turn, heat other
objects.

Near IR is what Low-Light imaging works on. In many low light
situations, there is enough Near IR radiation from moonlight,
starlight, or distant artificial lighting, to provide enough
illumination to see by. When there isn't enough Near IR in the
environment, specialized lighting, designed to emit light in the Near
IR part of the spectrum and no light in the Visible part of the
spectrum, can be used.

Heat IR is what we feel as heat when we stick our hands into a sunbeam
shining through a window (or to be precise, what we feel is the
temperature rise in our skin caused by the Heat IR). Our skin is
relatively crude in detecting Heat IR; we can only detect Heat IR if
it is in sufficent quantaty to raise the temperature of our skin a
noticable amount. Thermographic imaging systems however, are more
sensitive. They can determine the temperatures of various objects by
the ammount of Heat IR they emit. A false-color image of the
temperatures in front of the sensor can be generated, in effect
showing what the various temperatures "look like".

However, aside from the fact that Near IR behaves much like light
does, and does not usually heat objects a noticable ammount, while
Heat IR behaves in a less light-like fashion, and can heat objects
noticeably, they are both parts of the electromagnetic spectrum, and
not as you stated "totally different." In fact, they are much the same
on several fundemental levels.
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--
-- Paul Gettle (RunnerPaul@********.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
(Public Key available by Finger)

You dare defy my whims?!?
I am the game master; you are my pawns!
I created the world you see before you!
I control your fate!"
-- Dexter, Dexter's Laboratory.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:09:04 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Sperethiel Dictionary
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 8/3/98 6:04:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, remo@***.NET
writes:

> >More or less the opposite of my first impression (gotten from one
> >of the first three ED flyers from 1993). I thought it appeared to
> >be closely linked to SR from the outset.
Compounded by the reference to Earthdawn : the Scourge in the adventure Dark
Angel, which IIRC was before the debut of ED.

Myself I like ED, I do however like the link more on the ED side (seeing
references to SR IEs and dragons in ED) than I do seeing them in SR. Go
figure. :-)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 14:07:47 +1200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: Rigging and Bioware
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Quoth Alexia (1317 04-8-98 NZT):

>Would the advantages my Rigger gets from an Adrenal pump go towards
>her control pool or no? It's bioware, not cyberware...

IMHO, no. The adrenaline in one's system affects the speed of
_physical_ reactions like movement and mental acuity, but doesn't -
can't - affect something that is happening inside a cybernetic
brain-implant like a VCR.

Danyel Woods - 9604801@********.ac.nz
'No, I'm Chaos and he's Mayhem. We're a double act.'
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:13:58 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Droopy ." <mmanhardt@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
In-Reply-To: <199808031025.MAA05824@*****.xs4all.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium

> That's the same quesiton as we had a little while ago about
> whether or not windows block thermographic vision. We never did
> get a conclusive answer to that one, so this one is just as open
> IMHO. (I would love to get my hands on a thermal imager to play
> with for just a little while, to test a couple of these things...)

Well, they use thermal imagers to see through walls (not very well,
but it is done.)


--Droopy
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:13:58 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Droopy ." <mmanhardt@*****.NET>
Subject: Thermographics
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Ok...I didn't want to restart this particular thread, but it seems there
is still enough confusion to warrant it.

1) Thermographics convert radiated heat to a visible spectrum.

2) InfraRed is any light below visible (to a human) red (just like
ultra sonic is any sound above what a human can hear)

Most current night vision devices cover a broad band of light from IR
through UV light. They basicly widen the spectrum of light you can
see and enhance the image.

The basic physics of the two types of devices are completely
different as is the way they 'see.'

I can get further into this is anyone wants, but this has been beat
to death.


--Droopy
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:16:36 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 03/08/98 19:18:58 Central Daylight Time,
robert.watkins@******.COM writes:

> Where in SR canon does it say it's possible to keep solar collection panels
> concealed while they're in use? If you mean concealed like "Okay, I build a
> tube around it so that the light only reflects off that-away", then fine,
> but give page and book references here.

I'm gonna have to beg for time on this one, Robert. I've got a shitload to
search through (and a couple lines in the water), and have other stuff to do.

Nexx
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:17:53 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: SR Drinking Game Addition
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 03/08/98 20:54:52 Central Daylight Time, ElBandit@***.COM
writes:

> Greetings!!!
>
> The SR Drinking game should be called "Shadow Rum" <g>

Better make that Shadowrum, or Adam is going to take your head... <g>

Nexx
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:18:58 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 8/3/98 6:57:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
RunnerPaul@*****.COM writes:
<snipping a lot of other stuff>
> Near IR is what Low-Light imaging works on.
Low-light (like elves got) is actually light amplification, that is why the
eyelight system sends out a low intensity tight focus beam, just bright enough
to see by with ow-light.

As has been said before, IR and "heat" are basicaly the same thing. Passive IR
(like trolls get) is just sensing ambient heat from the surrounding area.
Active IR uses a lamp which projects Infrared radiation, allowing visibility.
So a troll may be able to get a system like eyelight or even an infrared lamp
to allow sight when there is no ambient heat.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 12:38:39 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Burke <ranger@********.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: License plates
In-Reply-To: <199808032054.OAA15412@******.carl.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>/ > I've also heard the talk of the 'barcode' licence plates but I still
>/ > prefer to use the good old letter & numbers. A LoneStar traffic
>/ > drone can give a regular licence plate a ticket just as easily as
>/ > a barcode.
>
>Or, better yet, use the same technology that they're using at some toll
>booths in the US. A person can buy a credit card sized transponder
>from the company that operates the toll booth. They put the
>transponder in their rear window. As they drive through the toll gate
>(at highway speed) a sensor in the booth registers the transponder and
>matches it's signal with the owner and adds the toll fee to their
>monthly bill.
>
>Now combine that technology with the paranoia and big brother mentality of
>Shadowrun.
>
>Each license plate has a transponder embeded in it (the transponder
>signal matches the plate ID).
>
>LoneStar can query the transponder and match the license plate with the
>car it's registered to, it's owner, and from their access the owner's
>police records. At a touch of a button they can have all the
>information they need to make a decision on how to handle the
>situation.
>
>Likewise monitoring devices could be set up on the highways and at
>intersections to monitor traffic and issue fines automatically to
>violaters of traffic laws.
>
>These same monitoring devices could also track specific vehicles (bank
>robbers) allowing LoneStar to set up roadblocks ahead of them.
>
>Of course, this opens up a whole new commerce in illegal plates and
>jobs for deckers to alter records and overide monitoring stations :)
>
>-David
>--
>

This transponder idea is _very_ scary and _very_ possible.

Tim Burke
ranger@********.com.au
http://bear.tm/conjure/
http://welcome.to/shadowrunning
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:01:08 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Burke <ranger@********.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: License plates
In-Reply-To: <97418bed.35c5e793@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 02:38 AM 8/4/98 , you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-08-03 09:34:35 EDT, you write:
>
>> I've also heard the talk of the 'barcode' licence plates but I still
>> prefer to use the good old letter & numbers. A LoneStar traffic
>> drone can give a regular licence plate a ticket just as easily as
>> a barcode.
>>
>
>Anybody know where I can find this about barcodes? What novel or
sourcebook it
>is in?
>

Page 30, Lone Star Handbook under the Division of Traffic Patrol paragraph.
One thing that is interesting to mention is that even though the LSH mentions
a barcode it doesn't mention it in the context of a licence plate.

"Fixed-radar drones scan sections of highways or city streets for speeding
vehicles.
When a drone spots a vehicle moving faster than allowed, the drones autonomous
camera scans it for a barcode and directs a ticket to the appropriate
address through
a cellular LTG link. If a vehicle jams the radar drone's signal -
regardless of the vehicles
speed - the drone scans the jamming vehicle's barcode and sends a ticket
for the
maximum speeding fine plus a fine for using restricted hardware."

Now I don't have a problem with the barcode being there but I do have a
problem
with the barcode _being_ the licence plate. Like I mentioned previously if
we take
the barcode as licence plate as gospel it only identifies the car to a
person with a
barcode scanner. How on earth does Joe Citizen find his car in the carpark of
Monster Mall when every second car is a red Chrysler-Nissan Jackrabbit?
How does Jane Citizen tell the Star who ran over little Johnny on that
pedestrian
crossing in that hit and run?

I'm more inclined to accept the barcode idea when it is utillised in
conjunction
with a regular numbers and letters licence plate. In Australia we have our
regular
licence plate (called a number plate here) that just identifies our state
of registration
and our licence plate number. Our registration details are attached to a
window
sticker that must be displayed either on the windscreen on the passenger side
or on a fixed window on the passenger side of the car. I believe from
memory one
state now even has a barcode on this sticker (might be Victoria ?) and
parking
officers just scan the sticker with their barcode scanner and the ticket is
stored
electronically for mailling out when the officer returns to download their
hits.

This principle could be used just as well in Shadowrun if the barcode
portion was
on a window sticker on both the front and rear windshields. Alternatively
you could
have the barcode sticker on the upper corner of a regular licence plate
like many
US states have their registration stickers now. This option allows for Joe
Citizen
to identify a vehicle easily but also allows the LS cruiser behind the car
in question
to scan the barcode to see if there is any info known about the registered
owner.
This way I suppose everyone is happy.

Sorry about this anal post but I'm actually a licence plate collector.

Cheers,
Tim Burke
Brisbane, Australia
ranger@********.com.au
http://bear.tm/conjure ConJure 98 Official Website
http://welcome.to/shadowrunning The Dragon's Blood SR2 PBeM Website
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:08:14 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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>Jus' a quick comment. Thermo and IR are _NOT_ the same thing.

Er...yeah they are.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:24:53 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Pete Wilson <piatro@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Morph Seeking Weapons
In-Reply-To: <cc1d5765.35c1f09b@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

K wrote:

>Spectrographic Analysis can provide that range of information to date. Sure,
>the sensors are fairly good size for this now, but not -that- large, and the
>science could readily get smaller when combined with a "Chemical Analysis"
>kit, much like those used in a lot of field studies kits now.

As I recall a spectromiter measures the exact wavelengths of light that an
object reflects. In order to determine this exactly you need to know
exactly how much light of each wavelenth is striking the object. In a lab
setting this isn't too tough. The light source has been analyzed (and
probably suplimented) to provide the needed spectrum of light. In the
field this would be nearly imposible.

>My basis of discussion is from the fact that I have seen my own Image done in
>this manner. I also know that my image was distinctly different from the 4
>other people's that were done at the time in the labs at ASU several years
>ago, as well as a fun project that was performed on Kitt Peak as well.

What type of environmental light was used for this scan? For the purpose
of a covert long distance identification system, an active sensor would be
impractical. Imagine a submarine banging away with it's active sonar in
order to identify the distinguishing marks on the hulls of passing ships.
This is why _passive_ sensors are used.

<snip a bit>

>Perhaps the gun can only recognize a signal from these types of implants, and
>part of that is also security for the device(s) as well. Additionally, the
>implant would have to very possibly be compatible (a suggestion here) with all
>forms of Smartlink Interfaces that exist as well as the Morphseeker
>Technology.

Yes, it _says_ that a standard smatrlink is included in the cyberware
element of this system. It also says that the guns are individually built
for each sniper and will blow up if anyone else tries to use them. I added
the TN bonus on my own. :)


<snip where you are explaining why you agree with an increase in the chance
to hit and meaningless comparison to Tactical Computer>

Piatro
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:32:25 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Pete Wilson <piatro@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Morph Seeking Weapons
In-Reply-To: <v04011706b1e7f2a366e4@[128.120.118.25]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Adam Getchell wrote:

<snip Spectrophotography arguments>

<snip rehash of exactly the same points about Tactical Computer>

>BTW, now that they have TAPS autosoft for targetting should be possible to
>do something similar with skillwires. Oh, and a Sentinel Drone equipped
>with a Sentry gun and TAPS autosoft and decent sensors can roll 18 dice or
>so, plus Tactical computer lockon dice (about 8 of those per customer).
>That's of course, not counting the Rigger's combat pool or IVIS pool. My
>players are probably dreading the run against the drone guarded base ... ;-)
>

You lost me here. What is TAPS?

Piatro
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:05:11 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Pete Wilson <piatro@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
In-Reply-To: <a71205ac.35c66f93@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Michael vanHuls wrote:


>As has been said before, IR and "heat" are basicaly the same thing. Passive
IR
>(like trolls get) is just sensing ambient heat from the surrounding area.
> Active IR uses a lamp which projects Infrared radiation, allowing visibility.
>So a troll may be able to get a system like eyelight or even an infrared lamp
>to allow sight when there is no ambient heat.

On a related note, since IR "light" can heat up things wouldn't the beam of
light be more visible to other IR viewers. Handheld IR flashlights
probably wouldn't be strong enough to have much of a visible affect, but
vehicle mounted or fixed IR sources could be quite obvious.

With this in mind the more expensive security equipment will either be fine
tuned to avoid a thermal path, or use a ultraviolet light.

Piatro
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:24:55 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Rigging and Bioware
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>Would the advantages my Rigger gets from an Adrenal pump go towards
>her control pool or no? It's bioware, not cyberware...

Nope. SHADOWTECH, Page 19: "The Reaction increase does not affect the
skills involved in rigging or decking."

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 23:28:48 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jett <zmjett@*********.COM>
Subject: Going away!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Going NOMAIL, since I"m leaving bring and early in the morning for
GenCon. See you guys all when I get back!

Whee! I'm the first to go NOMAIL! Hehehe! Now I feel so special. ;)

--Jett

<*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>


"I'll make this clear, that I'm just here for backup. And to offer the
occasional advice or insult."
--Jett, on being an NPC

Behold the mighty sonic scream of the Jett!

http://www.scifi-fantasy.com/~zmjett/shadow.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:43:02 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: License plates
In-Reply-To: <04d931804030488ZEUS@****.quicknet.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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> Page 30, Lone Star Handbook under the Division of Traffic Patrol
> paragraph.
> One thing that is interesting to mention is that even though the
> LSH mentions
> a barcode it doesn't mention it in the context of a licence plate.

I'd beg to differ..

> If a vehicle jams the radar drone's signal -
> regardless of the vehicles
> speed - the drone scans the jamming vehicle's barcode and sends a ticket
> for the
> maximum speeding fine plus a fine for using restricted hardware."

Given that the transponder isn't working, for whatever reason, the drone
must be obtaining the barcode visually, which implies that the barcode is
visible (from a few angles, and from a distance). A license plate (with the
barcode on it) would be a solution.

--
Duct tape is like the Force: There's a Light side, a Dark side, and it
binds the Universe together.
Robert Watkins -- robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 23:46:40 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Black Cauldron
In-Reply-To: <9742dac4.35c62e26@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 05:39 PM 8/3/98 EDT, you wrote:
>Cool! Disney is releasing the Black Cauldron on Video!

Oh joy...I begged my parents to take me to see that movie when I was 10 or
something, because I seriously dug the books; I was driving the local
librarian up the wall requesting various books in the series they didn't
have locally.

And I was as pissed off as a 10 year old could be to see what Disney had
done to a series of books I loved. Bore about zero resemblance to the books.

Man was I one pissed on little kid.

Erik J.



http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 23:47:12 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shamanic Mask
In-Reply-To: <9cc1bd5e.35c636f3@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 06:17 PM 8/3/98 EDT, you wrote:

>Okay ... here is a question then about this limitation then ... what happens
>when someone gets a skill in Sorcery which is higher than the highest force
>spell they have ... irregardless of the skill rating, they will never get
more
>successes than some Joe Mage on the street who has the same spell at the same
>force (but making the difference in skill with fetishes and the like).
>
>What then is the reason to have a good Sorcery skill then if the spell is
>going to be limiting force then ?

Because it's Sorcery dice that you actually roll to get successes. Hell
with it, the book is damn near here anyway. Some of you will have your
hands on the actual rules by this time Thursday, so it's not like I'm
really giving anything away. Consider it a sneak preview ala Bull's from
Origins.

Force limits the number of successes you can have. But unlike in SR2,
where you rolled dice equalling Force+Magic Pool+Foci, in SR3 you roll
Sorcery+Spell Pool+Foci. THAT'S why a high Sorcery is actually even more
important than it is today in SR2.

So you may have a Force 10 Mana Bolt, but if you've got a Sorcery 2, you
can only roll two dice (plus foci and pool obviously).

On the other hand, if you have Sorcery 10 and Mana Bolt 2, you obviously
don't know a powerful version of the spell and your successes are capped at
two, despite your wide knowledge base.

The system works very well. It lessens the importance of foci (why bother
with so many foci when your successes are capped at, say, six?) and
generally brings down magician's power considerably. And as much as I love
mages, it needed to be done.

Honestly, of the portions of SR3 that I and others on this list have been
priviledged enough to see, it's a very nice improvement overall. I'm very
pleased with what Mike and Steve and the rest of the FASA SR team has done,
and I've been using the stuff they gave us months ago to this day and have
yet to encounter a complaint or a problem. Doesn't mean glitches won't
occur, but it hasn't happened yet and the improvements actually seem to be
real improvements.

For example, the new Initiative rules gave them a fighting chance against a
wickedly fast Ant Queen spirit. In the old rules, they would have been
toast. In the new ones, they had a far improved chance of survival (though
I did have to step in as GM, they had a poor dice day).

>And, yes, I am going to read the SR3 once K gets back here with it on Sunday.
>And then K and I will see what to do about the house rule.

If what I just said didn't convince you to dump it, it's unlikely the full
SR3 will change your mind either.

On that note, I do hope that people will read SR3 with some care before
spamming the list with gripes and complaints that could be solved by a more
than cursory look at the changes. I'm not saying to not say anything, or
to not ask questions if you've looked high and low, but try to look with
some care first.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 20:55:58 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Rick Watkins <tazzanator@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Rigging and Bioware
Content-Type: text/plain

>Would the advantages my Rigger gets from an Adrenal pump go towards
>her control pool or no? It's bioware, not cyberware...

According to Fields of Fire, I believe the answer is "No".

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 04:03:00 GMT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Dexter Morschkroftx <vwookiee@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: License plates
Content-Type: text/plain

Thus was said by Michael vanHulst

>> > The technology for the licence plate/ticket thing is alive and well
in
>> > Australia.
><snip>
>
> I have seen a lot of of those systems on TV. They are being fought
here in
>the US on some levels. Basically the lawyers say it comes down to the
innocent
>until proven guilty idea, if the person lends a car out and the driver
speeds,
>the owner gets the ticket and must go to court to "prove" his/her
innocence.
> The barcode system would be the same, except for a photo would not be
>issued, just a reading of the barcode and the info would come through
on a
>computer.
> So if you speed, you might not even be home before you recieve an
e-mail
>saying you have been fined:-)
>
In australia it is possible and prob anywhere esle to suffle the blame
to a third party by them declaring that they were driving (a loop hole
which allows you to gain bout double demerit points before losing your
license )

-Kroftx
"philosophy is it aloive"

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 23:06:04 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Pete Wilson <piatro@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Morph Seeking Weapons
In-Reply-To: <9a095aaf.35c2b89a@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

K wrote:

>> Right. Write off the DNA analysis and this becomes possible, though never
>> 100% accurate. Probably close. [You do have to consider environmental
>> factors, et. al]
>
>Actually, all of the environmental factors are being considered here. Also,
>"Environmental Factors" can literally be programmed into an
"Information
>Titration Grid", and thus have their more noticeable side effects removed from
>the factors of the gun. Stuff like wind, air temp, pressure (barometric or
>otherwise), static ionization rates, and the like can all readily be built
>into a Sniper System. ESPECIALLY considering cybertechnology as well as
>general computer micronization that would run parallel to cybertech
>developments and them implaced within the Sniper Rifle itself.
>

I still disagree with the idea of this type of system as being that
portable, but lets move on to a more important matter. How is the sniper
system going to get this Spectrographic/thermographic/electromagnetic
profile to make a positive ID? The subject would have to have been viewed
with the same type of sensors as are built into this system. Without
knowing what profile to look for a system with these advanced capabilities
is no better than a standard scope.

For this reason a strictly visual system is the most likely. With enough
flat images of the subject (well... target actually) a 3d model can be
easily constructed. Thats enough. The stuff about not getting confused by
a twin was in the shadow commentary. Not a very reliable source IMO.

Piatro
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 14:06:30 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Shamanic Mask
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980803172224.1f7fa7ee@****.fbiz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Erik Jameson writes:
> Force limits the number of successes you can have. But unlike in SR2,
> where you rolled dice equalling Force+Magic Pool+Foci, in SR3 you roll
> Sorcery+Spell Pool+Foci. THAT'S why a high Sorcery is actually even more
> important than it is today in SR2.

So, you really need both to kick arse... OTH, casting a spell at someone
with low willpower (thus giving you a pitiful target number) won't be
anywhere near as devasting, because even a TN of 2 still won't give you more
than Force successes. OTH again, though (call me a Motie), you get to keep
back more dice for spell defense.

*scratch* Are they still keeping the caster's Sorcery attribute as the
target number to resist? Or have you already revealed too much?

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 23:31:00 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John Dukes <dukes@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Rigging and Bioware
In-Reply-To: <19980804011700.2796.rocketmail@******.yahoomail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Would the advantages my Rigger gets from an Adrenal pump go towards
>her control pool or no? It's bioware, not cyberware...

Hrm. Good question....
yeah, I dont see why not.

-Teeg
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 23:18:45 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Rigging and Bioware
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>>Would the advantages my Rigger gets from an Adrenal pump go towards
>>her control pool or no? It's bioware, not cyberware...
>
>Hrm. Good question....
>yeah, I dont see why not.

Because the rules say they don't? Just a shot in the dark....

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 00:29:38 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Logan Graves <logan1@*****.INTERCOM.NET>
Organization: "Big Knobi Klub" http://www.intercom.net/user/logan1/bkk.htm
Subject: Re: Location
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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In our last episode, Grahamdrew & Bai Shen wrote:
>
B> > Jus' outta curiousity, are there any SR players in the VA area? I
B> > haven't had much luck with findin' a group. :(
>
G> Ok, well the thought comes up...
G> Does anyone play Shadowrun in Maryland

Well, Vixen & I practically live on the VA/MD border. Unfortunately,
we're stuck out on the "Eastern Shore" portion of these two states
(south of Salisbury, aka Delmarva), which truely *IS* the blackhole of
the universe!

Also, iirc, our 'Feerless Leeder' is (or was) from the Norfolk area.

--Fenris
_______________________________________________logan1@*****.intercom.net
(>) Sure I have kleptomania, but when it gets bad,
I take something for it!
(>) The Smiling Bandit <Strikes Again!/Ha-Ha-Ha>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 23:52:44 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Pete Wilson <piatro@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Skills
In-Reply-To: <SHADOWRN%98080118522690@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>>> > How would ya'll handle the skills of singing, painting, and
>sculpting?
>>> > I was thinking of a general skill art, with concentrations in
>the above.
>>> Umm, Singing is covered in Shadowbeat ... and would be considered a
>base
>>> skill. A particular style of singing (ie Rap, Opera, Humming, etc)
>would be a
>>> Concentration. Specializations would either be in a single song
>(one hit
>>> wonders ?!?) or even a particular geographic area (caribbean
>reggae, which
>>> IIRC is an early predecessor of Rap ?!?).
>>
>>Welp, I managed to pick up Shadowbeat last night an' found the stuff
>>about singin'. However, I'm still not sure what to do about painting
>>and sculpting. Any ideas, ya'll?
>
>I don't know about what to do with the successes (I, unfortunately,
>have never even _seen_ Shadowbeat:( but here's how I'd break the
>skills down for various art forms:
>
>Drawing (general skill)
> Medium (pen & ink, charcoal, conte, etc)
> Style (Abstract, Expressionist, etc...)
>
>Painting (general skill)
> Medium (watercolor, oil, tempera, acrylic)
> Style (same as above)
>

I would combine these two into 2D art. The only difference between them is
the medium.

>Theatre (general skill)***
> Acting
> Technique (Uta Hagen, Alexander, etc.)
> Medium (Film, Stage, Musical, Sim, Trideo)
> Style (Shakespearean, Classical Greek, post-Modern, etc)
> Technical
> Stage Management
> Lighting Design
> Scene Design
> Sound Design
> Directing
> Style (Shakespearean, Classical Greek, post-Modern, etc)
> Medium (Film, Stage, Musical, Sim, Trideo)
> Dramaturgy (theatre history)
> Style (Shakespearean, Classical Greek, post-Modern, etc)
> Medium (Film, Stage, Musical, Sim, Trideo)
> Performance (single play)

<snip>

>***This is a little more detailed, as it _is_ my chosen art form:) The
>reason I put theatre as a general skill is that any _trained_ actor,
>director, techie, whatever, is going to have _some_ knowledge in the
>other areas, if only enough to do his job (i.e. the stage manager
>knows to give the actors plenty of time to warm up, the director
>should know something about previous productions, and the actors know
>to stay out of the techies' way during Hell Week (or in the case of
>most Broadway musicals, Hell Month:)). Even untrained theatre people
>will either pick up a little in the other areas or they won't be
>around long... people will find them entirely too annoying.
>
>I'm still not sure how to handle trideo, simsense, and film
>production, as they have skills that don't fit neatly into the theatre
>skill (editing, camerawork, etc.) I also have a problem with some of
>the specializations off of Technical theatre, as most of those have
>possible concentrations/specializations (e.g.):
>
>Lighting
> Design (deciding how to light the stage)
> Style
> Production (actually putting up and wiring the lights)
> Light Hanging/Focussing
> Stage Wiring (different from wiring anything like a house:)
> Lighting Control Systems (hmmm... that's an interesting
>thought... datajack controlled light systems... no missing the cue
>because your finger was in your ear:)

This is a problem for most of your categories in the theatre area. It
appears that an actor would have to specialize in either a technique,
medium or a style. I think most people could find themselves doing the
same thing with their own RL specialty.

I would have them be a group of skills rather than concentrations of a
single theatre skill. Using the skill web you can easily default to
another skill to show the result of cross training/extended exposure to the
other areas.

Paitro

(sig stolen from my brother)

"All the world's a stage, and I have to light the damn thing."
the Jaded Master Electrician
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 00:02:41 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Pete Wilson <piatro@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: HoL
In-Reply-To: <199808032133.RAA25589@********.mindspring.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Once upon a time, Spike wrote;
>
>>And verily, did MC23 hastily scribble thusly...
>>|-Master Collector 23, who is boggled over the absence of Toon-
>>
>>HE SLIPPED UP!!!!
>>
>>I DON'T BELIEVE HE SLIPPED UP!
>>
>>AT LAST! Now we know what MC stands for, it's only a matter of time before
>>you slip up again and we find your name....
>>
>>EGMLOL!
>
> Tip of the iceberg Spike. Tip of the iceberg.
>You now know _one_ meaning of MC. If you had true illumination you would
>know the definition is far more complex than that.
>

"More Complex" Very nice, very nice. Now everyone is going to sift
through the logs to figure out the muffin crumb code.

Piatro-

Don't mind me. I'm "Mostly Clueless" myself.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 00:04:02 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Goth <xaos@*****.NET>
Subject: ED/SR Connections
In-Reply-To: <005b01bdbf43$99c9dfa0$1691fecc@********>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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>More or less the opposite of my first impression (gotten from one
> >of the first three ED flyers from 1993). I thought it appeared to
> >be closely linked to SR from the outset.
>
> If words truer than "You're mileage may vary" have been spoken, it's hard
> for me to think of what they might be.

Well, personally it seems odd to me that people who (A) don't like
Earthdawn...also, (B) deny the obvious connections within ED to SR
(according to 'canon').

Personally, I don't have the least bit of problem with anyone saying that in
their game ED has nothing to do with SR, or any level of connection that
they choose. People that don't even want to read ED don't need to. However,
if you HAVE, I find it hard to believe that 'you' could not see the obvious
connections listed within. There are numerous (well, at least two) web sites
that document exact pages, etc.

>
> Part of it could be prejudice on my part, too; my exposure to
> Earthdawn has
> basically not been all that remarkable; I don't think it's all
> that a whole
> bunch of people are cracking it up to be.

So it ain't "all that" for you. So what? Please don't take this personal,
but the links are obvious and visible. They have grown closer, and they will
grow farther apart (in the eyes of FASA or whomever). I just think that
people let their biases put their heads in the sand. (This is assuming the
'debate' is worthwhile in the long run.)


I don't think it's
> worth my time
> and effort to get involved with it any further than I already have, and I
> don't think it's at all necessary.

Great! <snicker> Just please refrain from (again, in general, not YOU
specifically) telling other people that they're wrong just because 'you'
don't want to think about it.

> >Me too, but OTOH I feel Mike is steering SR away too far from
> >what SR was until he took over...
>
> This might sound like a complete reversal of what I've said
> previously, but
> I tend to agree with you a little here. I think it's just a case of
> overcompensating; give it a little time and I think we'll start to see it
> getting back to normal. More or less.

Yep, time will tell. Besides SR3 isn't even out yet! :)

> Agreed, up to and including immortal elves (which are present in my game;
> they don't have anything to do with what the characters are doing, but
> they're there).

<grin> A very healthy view of IE's in a game.

> >But let's not turn this into a rant :)
>
> But you were doing so well there for a minute....

I may as well add an info/rant... One piece of undocumentable evidence I
have was a Gencon I went to 2 or 3 years ago. FASA was planning on a trilogy
that had two parts under the ED banner, with the conclusion under the SR
banner. (Obviously, this has been killed...)

-Dave-
xaos@*****.net
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 01:14:50 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: ED/SR Connections
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 8/4/98 1:12:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, xaos@*****.NET
writes:

> FASA was planning on a trilogy
> that had two parts under the ED banner, with the conclusion under the SR
> banner. (Obviously, this has been killed...)

Wasn't that supposed to be the Trilogy which started in SR with "Worlds with
Out End" and then was supposed to continue with the previous stories in Earth
Dawn?

-Bandit
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 00:20:34 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: ED/SR Connections
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>> If words truer than "You're mileage may vary" have been spoken, it's
hard
>> for me to think of what they might be.
>
>Well, personally it seems odd to me that people who (A) don't like
>Earthdawn...also, (B) deny the obvious connections within ED to SR
>(according to 'canon').

I don't deny it; it just didn't seem that obvious to me. I don't like it,
either.

>However, if you HAVE, I find it hard to believe that 'you' could not
>see the obvious connections listed within.

Well, I didn't; looking back now, I can see them, and I still don't like
them. Any more insults to my intelligence, or can we drop this now?

>There are numerous (well, at least two) web sites
>that document exact pages, etc.

David, I don't care if they have web pages that document how the Bible is a
precursor to ED or SR, quoting chapter and verse. I still don't think it's
a good idea.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:39:41 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: Re: SR3 Doubts
In-Reply-To: <199808020956.LAA01019@*****.xs4all.nl>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 03:57 AM 8/2/98 , you wrote:
>Brian Moore said on 14:03/31 Jul 98,...
>
>> If only we could upload Bull's brain to the net. Then everyone could
>> download it! :-)
>
>Are you sure that would be a _good_ thing? :)

So *that* is what caused the crash of '29!


-Dvixen - dvixen@********.com
Herkimer's Lair - http://coastnet.com/~dvixen
"If this be a Ren-rakin' don'tcha come a knockin'"
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 01:47:48 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: SR3 Doubts
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 04/08/98 00:25:29 Central Daylight Time,
dvixen@********.COM writes:

> >> If only we could upload Bull's brain to the net. Then everyone could
> >> download it! :-)
> >
> >Are you sure that would be a _good_ thing? :)
>
> So *that* is what caused the crash of '29!

I would make a snide comment at this point, but Bull is buying me a
hardback... sorry.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:47:03 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: SR3 Doubts
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>

> >> If only we could upload Bull's brain to the net. Then everyone could
> >> download it! :-)
> >
> >Are you sure that would be a _good_ thing? :)
>
> So *that* is what caused the crash of '29!

And on my 54th birthday no less. For shame Bullster.

Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:43:56 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Going away!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> From: Jett <zmjett@*********.COM>

> Going NOMAIL, since I"m leaving bring and early in the morning for
> GenCon. See you guys all when I get back!
>
> Whee! I'm the first to go NOMAIL! Hehehe! Now I feel so special. ;)

I don't plan on going nomail...I want to reveiw Spike lamentations when I
get back :)


Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 23:10:28 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: Make friends and influence people
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Well. I realise that it is hot outside, but I'd think that everyone keeps
their copmuters inside and their brains out of the heat.

Take a step back everyone. When people are being grouchier to each other on
list than *me*, you've gone too far. Turn off the mailer, grab some Iced
tea, and spend a half hour reading your fave comic strip.

'Welcome to the Sixth World. Play Nice' - Mike M

*grin*

-Dvixen - dvixen@********.com
Herkimer's Lair - http://coastnet.com/~dvixen
"If this be a Ren-rakin' don'tcha come a knockin'"
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:48:27 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: SR3 Info!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> From: Grahamdrew <mnemonic25@*********.COM>

> I don't know if this is BS or what, but I was on IRC and a guy poped
> into one of the DALnet Shadowrun channels. We started talking and the
> coversation shifted to SR3, he wanted to know if it was out yet. We
> talked about it for a second and said the magic system was really
> diffrent in SR3, we asked him how he knew...
>
> Aparently soume FASA representitives were at the Chiago Comix Con (can
> anyone confirm/deny?) and they were explaning some of the changes in
> SR3... (he was kinda vauge on that, adding to the BS probibility...
> but) Well he said that the magic system was going to be based more like
> they were skills (not sure really what that means) and mentioned a few
> othr changes. If anyone else wants the exact logs, send via private
> email.

I can neither confirm nor deny that Senator, but by this time next week all
will be laid bare.

Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 02:11:20 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shamanic Mask
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 8/3/1998 4:40:29 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
erikj@****.COM writes:

> Yes, since the intent of the rule change as I understand it was to get rid
> of those damn Force 1 and 2 spells that would then have 10 Spell pool dice
> behind it. By going with Keith and Mike's house rule, it probably allows
> them to not have to change their PCs at all. It also opens up the magical
> power curve quite a bit. Instead of having to relearn all your spells at a
> higher Force, which would certainly cost massive amounts of karma, you
> would simply initiate and get an improved result.
>
> I really don't like this particular house rule and I would strongly suggest
> Mike and Keith that you read SR3 very carefully (well, we all should)
> before making any house rules. This one in particular seems very open to
> abuse.
>
too bad you don't know but a fraction of the story behind the "House Rule"
that Mike has mentioned.

Consider Health Magic and time reduction.

Consider any of the simpler, permanent, transformation magics.

Consider Ritual Magic and how the success limits to force ratio are going to
come into play.

Consider if you will all of this and more Erik, And before you go saying that
this system is a poor suggestion on our part, consider the entirety of what
"Force" means in the game mechanics overall. Consider the obstacles that all
magicians in a game are likely to encounter. Consider stuff like armor for
various damaging manipulation magics and the concept of "lower force".

In the games we have, all of this is considered more than just "ooo, that mage
is gonna get more successes with a lower force spell and be just as effective
as the guy with a higher force spell." That simply, plain and simply, is not
the truth.

Please also note that Mike mentioned the limitation is based upon the "magic
attribute" of the character in question, and went further on to mention that
limitation is on "Personal Attribute", with Power Foci and the like not coming
into play on this.

Yes, we haven't seen all the rules to SR3, only teasers from one place or the
other, and some miscellaneous files that have drifted into our email box. But
we are beginning to test things out, and we are finding that the "successes do
not exceed" attribute limitation are in fact GREATLY reducing the overall
power of the really powerful PC's in the game here.

And damn, in many ways that feels nicer than you would ever believe.

-K (who quite frankly it's time to agree with Rob, Nexx, Mike, and several
others that Erik needs to consider more of the details that might exist, as we
take into account the fact that you don't know how to explain all the details
of your games or gaming philosophies either. Turn about is beyond fair place,
it's Judicial)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 02:14:34 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shamanic Mask
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 8/3/1998 4:42:27 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
erikj@****.COM writes:

> Um, what? A manifesting trait to their aura and/or spell signatur when
> they cast spells or are magically active?
>
> Please cite and elaborate. This sounds like yet another house rule.
>
> I know there's the whole spell signature thing and all, but I don't recall
> ever reading that a mage ever had anything even remotely resembling a
> shamanic mask, nor a magical signature (spell signature, yes, but I'm not
> sure this is what you are referring to).
>
Just out of the sheer spite of things, I am NOT going to cite a ruling at this
point in time, because at one point in time, it was you (Erik) that cited a
similar rule to me. I am using a "House Term", but NOT a "House
Rule". There
is an optional rule in the sourcebooks concerning how "visible" is magic to
the mundane viewer, concerning force of the spell as compared to the caster's
magic attribute and whatnot.

And as I mentioned in an earlier post, it is something that we use to give the
player the chance to earn some role-playing points by elaborating on what they
think / feel that the magical "signature/mask" of their character is as they
perform various feats.

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 02:15:37 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Black Cauldron
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 8/3/1998 4:44:13 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK writes:

> And verily, did Nexx Many-Scars hastily scribble thusly...
> |
> |Cool! Disney is releasing the Black Cauldron on Video!
> |
>
> I could've sword they did that already...
> Maybe it's a re-release.
>
> Besides, it's nowhere near as good as the books.

Nope, and actually at one time the managing gods of Disney once swore they
would NOT release it on video tape. Have no idea why, as I missed it when it
came out originally.

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 16:16:40 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Shamanic Mask
In-Reply-To: <c81196b7.35c6a6cc@***.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> There is an optional rule in the sourcebooks concerning how "visible"
> is magic to
> the mundane viewer, concerning force of the spell as compared to
> the caster's
> magic attribute and whatnot.

It's not an optional rule... it's in the section in the BBB on noticing
spell casting.

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 02:22:02 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: BigDaddy <bigdaddy@*****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Re: [OT] Black Cauldron
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Erik Jameson wrote:
>
> At 05:39 PM 8/3/98 EDT, you wrote:
> >Cool! Disney is releasing the Black Cauldron on Video!
>
> Oh joy...I begged my parents to take me to see that movie when I was 10 or
> something, because I seriously dug the books; I was driving the local
> librarian up the wall requesting various books in the series they didn't
> have locally.
>
> And I was as pissed off as a 10 year old could be to see what Disney had
> done to a series of books I loved. Bore about zero resemblance to the books.
>
> Man was I one pissed on little kid.
>
> Erik J.
>
>

I remember back when i livin in Milwaukee, WI. They had converted an old
church into a movie theater it had 1 screen(damn that was a while ago!).
It's premire nite they showed this movie, The Black Cauldron. I was like
6 or something, I cried my ass off when the lil hairy thing died. That
was the last I heard of the movie. Why did disney cancel it or keep it
submerged for so long?


Totally OT but worth an answer or 2!


--
Napalm Sticks to Kidz,
BigDaddy
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 02:25:01 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 8/3/1998 7:19:03 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
robert.watkins@******.COM writes:

> Nexx writes:
> > you of something. From what I've read (which is again, not that much...
I
> > can't seem to find R2), SR canon makes it possible to use more than just
> > yellow-light collection, and to keep solar collection panels
> > concealed while
> > they're in use.
>
> Where in SR canon does it say it's possible to keep solar collection panels
> concealed while they're in use? If you mean concealed like "Okay, I build a
> tube around it so that the light only reflects off that-away", then fine,
> but give page and book references here.
>
> Otherwise, there's nothing written about how well you can conceal solar
> cells in use, and anything saying you can is a house rule, while anything
> saying you can't is referring to modern physics (sort of like it doesn't
> actually say anywhere in the rules that if you jump up, you come down...
> it's sort of assumed).
>
The point that is being made here is that there is NO rules saying you are
unable to hide anything while using something that *might* generate or do
something else.

RAM and Suncell are able to be utilized in tandem in the R2, as no such
clarification or restriction was place. Yes, it is within the aspects of FASA
to change or clarify this as an errate (as has been promised once SR3 is out
and standing on it's own).

Also, it is VERY evidant that elecrtrically oriented power types are vastly
improved within the age of SR over the current, RL, time. Gridlink for
massive cities, Suncell for cars that provides enough power to work in full
daylight, Improved Economy Options for various power plants, including
electric ones.

I would have to say that "Suncell" is a vast improvement over the bandwidths
currently in use today.

As for quoting specific material, I think I might start doing that soon...but
not until I have a talk with the people at FASA directly, face to face, in a
few days.

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 23:49:13 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: [GridSec] The guessing game
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Without posting to the list, figure out which threads are annoying me with
their complete, total, utter, absoloute, whole, conclusive; crowning,
exhaustive, thorough, plenary, abundant, saturated LACK of ON-TOPICness.

Then stop posting on list in response to them. Maybe then you'd all have a
break from my harping for everyone to get ON-TOPIC, neh?


-Dvixen - dvixen@********.com
First Priest of the Church of the Squooshy Ball - boB!
- Target : Smuggler's Haven - same page as the day of my birthday! Go fig!
ShadowRN GridSec/FAQ Flunky - http://coastnet.com/~dvixen/srnintro.html
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 02:35:27 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Black Cauldron
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 8/4/98 2:28:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bigdaddy@*****.COM
writes:

> Why did disney cancel it or keep it
> submerged for so long?

Because it was dark movie and some people said that it involved the use of
witchcraft. At least that is what I ahve been told.

-Bandit
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 02:36:55 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Morph Seeking Weapons
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 8/3/1998 10:28:04 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
piatro@**********.COM writes:
> As I recall a spectromiter measures the exact wavelengths of light that an
> object reflects. In order to determine this exactly you need to know
> exactly how much light of each wavelenth is striking the object. In a lab
> setting this isn't too tough. The light source has been analyzed (and
> probably suplimented) to provide the needed spectrum of light. In the
> field this would be nearly imposible.

Not at all, actually. Luminens Determination hardware exists currently, and
is NOT very large at all. It's in most hand-held cameras today, and more
advanced variations will no doubt exist in the future-possible of SR. Also,
this is being done on the astronomical field today, and they don't know every
band that is out there, instead placing comparisons to the known wavelengths.

(Paolo, help me on this, I know I am faltering in the information field)

> >My basis of discussion is from the fact that I have seen my own Image done
> in
> >this manner. I also know that my image was distinctly different from the
4
> >other people's that were done at the time in the labs at ASU several years
> >ago, as well as a fun project that was performed on Kitt Peak as well.
>
> What type of environmental light was used for this scan? For the purpose
> of a covert long distance identification system, an active sensor would be
> impractical. Imagine a submarine banging away with it's active sonar in
> order to identify the distinguishing marks on the hulls of passing ships.
> This is why _passive_ sensors are used.

Standard sunlight, allowed in from a window and bounced down the hallway with
a mirror on a door.

That -IS- what happened, I don't know all the other details, as I didn't pay
-that- much attention at the time.

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 02:38:28 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Morph Seeking Weapons
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 8/3/1998 10:29:07 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
piatro@**********.COM writes:

> >BTW, now that they have TAPS autosoft for targetting should be possible to
> >do something similar with skillwires. Oh, and a Sentinel Drone equipped
> >with a Sentry gun and TAPS autosoft and decent sensors can roll 18 dice or
> >so, plus Tactical computer lockon dice (about 8 of those per customer).
> >That's of course, not counting the Rigger's combat pool or IVIS pool. My
> >players are probably dreading the run against the drone guarded base ...
;-)
>
> >
>
> You lost me here. What is TAPS?
>
Target Aquisition Program Software (IIRC). It's a collection of various
things that enable some assistance to targetting features. I would almost
think of it as "SOTA Oriented Upgrades" to a given tactical simulator.
Perhaps options not normally programmed into such devices.

It's a thing, and isn't explain (IMO) in nearly enough detail.

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 02:38:54 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: SR3 Doubts
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:47 PM 8/3/98 -0700, Caric wrote these timeless words:
>> From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
>
>> >> If only we could upload Bull's brain to the net. Then everyone could
>> >> download it! :-)
>> >
>> >Are you sure that would be a _good_ thing? :)
>>
>> So *that* is what caused the crash of '29!
>
>And on my 54th birthday no less. For shame Bullster.
>
But Caric, you SAID you wanted that SPAM stopped once and for all! :]

Bull
--
Bull -- The Best Ork Decker You Never Met
chaos@*****.com ===== bull22@***********.com
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604

=======================================================
= =
= Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any Fours? =
= =
=======================================================

"Can the Gummi Worms really live in peace with the Marshmallow Chicks?"
-- Pinky, "Pinky and the Brain"
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 02:38:56 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Black Cauldron
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 02:22 AM 8/4/98 -0400, BigDaddy wrote these timeless words:

>I remember back when i livin in Milwaukee, WI. They had converted an old
>church into a movie theater it had 1 screen(damn that was a while ago!).
>It's premire nite they showed this movie, The Black Cauldron. I was like
>6 or something, I cried my ass off when the lil hairy thing died. That
>was the last I heard of the movie. Why did disney cancel it or keep it
>submerged for so long?
>
First off, in response to someone else's comments earlier:

I have worked in a video retail store tha last two Holiday Seasons... The
Black Cauldron has not been previoulsy released on video, at least not by
Disney. Trust me, we really gotta keep up with Disney to know what the
hell is on and off the market currently...

To answer BD's question, well, this is speculation and something a friend
mentioned once a while back. take it for the rumour it is :]

However, Black Cauldron (I don;t remember seeing it as a kid, though I do
remember it being released, and I haven;t seen it since it;s been
rereleased) was a bit... Darker and Scarier than anything Disney had done
up till that point as a feature film, and it scared the crap out of a lot
of little kids. For this reason, Disney shelved the movie. From what I
heard, it never even finished it's regular theater run.

However kids being the spoiled delinquents that they are (Well, It's TRUE!
I thought saying Damn was a big deal throughout Elementary school... The
other day I saw a couple of kids who couldn;t have been older than 8
walking down the street cussing like a Gangsta Rapper :/ ), a little
cartoon violence and scariness barely fazes them.

<shrug>

Just my 2 bits.

Bull
--
Bull -- The Best Ork Decker You Never Met
chaos@*****.com ===== bull22@***********.com
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604

=======================================================
= =
= Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any Fours? =
= =
=======================================================

"Can the Gummi Worms really live in peace with the Marshmallow Chicks?"
-- Pinky, "Pinky and the Brain"
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 02:38:52 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Going away!
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:43 PM 8/3/98 -0700, Caric wrote these timeless words:
>> From: Jett <zmjett@*********.COM>
>
>> Going NOMAIL, since I"m leaving bring and early in the morning for
>> GenCon. See you guys all when I get back!
>>
>> Whee! I'm the first to go NOMAIL! Hehehe! Now I feel so special. ;)
>
>I don't plan on going nomail...I want to reveiw Spike lamentations when I
>get back :)
>
I'll be subbed the whole time too :] Woot!

Bull
--
Bull -- The Best Ork Decker You Never Met
chaos@*****.com ===== bull22@***********.com
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604

=======================================================
= =
= Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any Fours? =
= =
=======================================================

"Can the Gummi Worms really live in peace with the Marshmallow Chicks?"
-- Pinky, "Pinky and the Brain"
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 02:38:49 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: SR3 Doubts
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:47 AM 8/4/98 EDT, Nexx Many-Scars wrote these timeless words:

>> So *that* is what caused the crash of '29!
>
>I would make a snide comment at this point, but Bull is buying me a
>hardback... sorry.
>
WHy should that stop you, Nexxus? I'm buying Brett one too, and he started
the thread! :]

<grin>

Bull
--
Bull -- The Best Ork Decker You Never Met
chaos@*****.com ===== bull22@***********.com
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604

=======================================================
= =
= Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any Fours? =
= =
=======================================================

"Can the Gummi Worms really live in peace with the Marshmallow Chicks?"
-- Pinky, "Pinky and the Brain"
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 02:43:17 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: SR3 Doubts
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 04/08/98 01:42:31 Central Daylight Time, chaos@*****.COM
writes:

> >> So *that* is what caused the crash of '29!
> >
> >I would make a snide comment at this point, but Bull is buying me a
> >hardback... sorry.
> >
> WHy should that stop you, Nexxus? I'm buying Brett one too, and he started
> the thread! :]

I have an older brother... I'm used to severe punishments for imagined
slights <g>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 02:43:53 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Morph Seeking Weapons
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 8/3/1998 11:17:06 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
piatro@**********.COM writes:

> I still disagree with the idea of this type of system as being that
> portable, but lets move on to a more important matter. How is the sniper
> system going to get this Spectrographic/thermographic/electromagnetic
> profile to make a positive ID? The subject would have to have been viewed
> with the same type of sensors as are built into this system. Without
> knowing what profile to look for a system with these advanced capabilities
> is no better than a standard scope.

I realize that much, that is part of the programming that would have to be
afforded to the user of the rifle at the time of his mission determination.
It's the -one- part of the guns' usage that I admit I do NOT have a real solid
idea on how to incorporate.

As for portability, I guess a question arises to me. Just what is in the way
of this for you to believe/perceive? How small is small to you? This is
cybertechnology that is being tossed into the fray, a topic that sadly, none
of us can truly go into with real expertise. Hypothesize, Theorize, Scam,
Disillusion, etcetera, ad nauseum, sure. But say with true knowledge, not
possible.

It's kind of like that *other* thread about Suncell. The knowledge that is
being shared is real, but is also incomplete. Time I would say to go web
browsing and see what can -really- be found out there today, and then make an
extrapolation about tomorrow's yet unknown...

> For this reason a strictly visual system is the most likely. With enough
> flat images of the subject (well... target actually) a 3d model can be
> easily constructed. Thats enough. The stuff about not getting confused by
> a twin was in the shadow commentary. Not a very reliable source IMO.

That part about the twin I would have to rereard.

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 16:43:02 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Camo and Ruthenium
In-Reply-To: <c4475b48.35c6a93e@***.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

K writes:
> Suncell for cars that provides enough power to work in full daylight

You can convert a car to run solely on solar power (in full daylight) now.
The trick lies in getting the density/effiency of the cells improved to the
point where you can get enough cells, on a rounded roof, so that you can get
sufficent powers from multiple angles (otherwise you need the panels on some
sort of flat surface, with an actuator, so you can move it to track the
sun).

Ob-SR: various groups are saying they'll have commercial quality solar
systems for cars (in full-daylight) within the next 10 years. A Gridlink
system can be done now, it merely needs a massive rework of the roads (to
put the conductors down). None of this would indicate that solar systems
would not reflect.

Active masking systems would either not hide reflective systems (most
masking systems are more concerned about either radar signature, heat
signature, or aural signature... very few care about visual signatures), or
would prevent the solar systems being used while engaged (by covering them,
probably...)

--
Duct tape is like the Force: There's a Light side, a Dark side, and it
binds the Universe together.
Robert Watkins -- robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 02:44:58 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shamanic Mask
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 8/3/1998 11:19:06 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
robert.watkins@******.COM writes:

> *scratch* Are they still keeping the caster's Sorcery attribute as the
> target number to resist? Or have you already revealed too much?
>
Since when did they do this in Second Edition. I remember it in First Ed in
some places, but not in Second Ed...

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 16:48:08 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Shamanic Mask
In-Reply-To: <69a2d1bd.35c6adec@***.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

K writes:
> > *scratch* Are they still keeping the caster's Sorcery attribute as the
> > target number to resist? Or have you already revealed too much?
> >
> Since when did they do this in Second Edition. I remember it in
> First Ed in
> some places, but not in Second Ed...

It's been ages since I played, ages since I read the rules, I'm tired, and
I'm at work... If they use the Force to resist spell casting, then I
apologise, but I thought it was the caster's Sorcery became the target's TN
to resist.

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 02:53:40 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Black Cauldron
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 8/4/1998 1:23:47 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
bigdaddy@*****.COM writes:

> I remember back when i livin in Milwaukee, WI. They had converted an old
> church into a movie theater it had 1 screen(damn that was a while ago!).
> It's premire nite they showed this movie, The Black Cauldron. I was like
> 6 or something, I cried my ass off when the lil hairy thing died. That
> was the last I heard of the movie. Why did disney cancel it or keep it
> submerged for so long?
>
THAT's IT!!! The topic's that were somehow detailed in the movie had
apparently disturbed some parents or viewers of some kind at the time. The
story also apparently had dealt too closely with "bad topics" that were going
around at the time as well (in the shadow of the "AD&D Deaths" as I recall).

Damn IT! I wish I could recall more of it, my girlfriend at the time loved
that movie, telling me that "gurgie's voice" was a big turn on to her... X-/

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 03:02:48 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: BigDaddy <bigdaddy@*****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Re: [OT] Black Cauldron
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

K is the Symbol wrote:
>
> In a message dated 8/4/1998 1:23:47 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
> bigdaddy@*****.COM writes:
>
> > I remember back when i livin in Milwaukee, WI. They had converted an old
> > church into a movie theater it had 1 screen(damn that was a while ago!).
> > It's premire nite they showed this movie, The Black Cauldron. I was like
> > 6 or something, I cried my ass off when the lil hairy thing died. That
> > was the last I heard of the movie. Why did disney cancel it or keep it
> > submerged for so long?
> >
> THAT's IT!!! The topic's that were somehow detailed in the movie had
> apparently disturbed some parents or viewers of some kind at the time. The
> story also apparently had dealt too closely with "bad topics" that were
going
> around at the time as well (in the shadow of the "AD&D Deaths" as I
recall).
>
> Damn IT! I wish I could recall more of it, my girlfriend at the time loved
> that movie, telling me that "gurgie's voice" was a big turn on to her...
X-/
>
> -K

Basic synopsis:
boy met by wizard
boy finds sword
boy finds furry thingy named gurgy
boy meets 3 witches and finds out how to stop black cauldron
boy gets captured
boy kills stuff
gurgy thingy jumps in cauldron and dies

(does he get resurected or does a disney guy die?)

OT AS HELL AND PROUD OF IT!

--
Napalm Sticks to Kidz,
BigDaddy
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 03:06:04 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: BigDaddy <bigdaddy@*****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: RPG deaths
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<snip my shitznit>

> THAT's IT!!! The topic's that were somehow detailed in the movie had
> apparently disturbed some parents or viewers of some kind at the time. The
> story also apparently had dealt too closely with "bad topics" that were
going
> around at the time as well (in the shadow of the "AD&D Deaths" as I
recall).
>

ok we all know that people died as a resault of taking D&D too far (if
you know of a ACTUAL story please post it!). BUT has anyone taken SR
too far. That's is to say used live weapons(guns, knives, bats, etc.) to
roleplay out and gotten hurt or killed?
--
Napalm Sticks to Kidz,
BigDaddy
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 03:11:54 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: BigDaddy <bigdaddy@*****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: kids in the '90s was BC{OT}
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Bu
>
> However kids being the spoiled delinquents that they are (Well, It's TRUE!
> I thought saying Damn was a big deal throughout Elementary school... The
> other day I saw a couple of kids who couldn;t have been older than 8
> walking down the street cussing like a Gangsta Rapper :/ ), a little
> cartoon violence and scariness barely fazes them.
>

ya know I'm sorry to say but IMO this is a sad state to have. Our kids
are being numbed to violence all around them. 1/2 the stuff on TV
involves destruction in 1 way or the other, the other 1/2 involves
saying its ok. Totally disturbing and something should be done. I can't
wait to have my kids. I will be the hardest asshole father imaginable.
My father turned my ass red with a wooden spoon when i was bad, I'm
gonna do it to my kids, It'll teach em real discipline not this "it's ok
your just angry at the world, just don't do it again" crap. Give the kid
a spanking and he'll never do it again!

(ok do it often then they get the message, took me a while not to turn
off the TV when dad was watching. hehe :) )


all in my $.02 and totally OT and RANTING!
--
Napalm Sticks to Kidz,
BigDaddy
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 01:21:19 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: RPG deaths
In-Reply-To: <35C6B2DC.7F6B94B6@*****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 03:06 AM 8/4/98 -0400, you wrote:

>ok we all know that people died as a resault of taking D&D too far (if
>you know of a ACTUAL story please post it!).

Yup. A bit of D&D, then 3 tabs of acid. "Look, I can fly!" <thunk>

IIRC and AFAIK.

> BUT has anyone taken SR
>too far. That's is to say used live weapons(guns, knives, bats, etc.) to
>roleplay out and gotten hurt or killed?

I don't think most of us are that stupid. (Although Mitch but Brad in a
chicken-wing to show him just how much it would hurt once..)

-Adam
-
< http://www.interware.it/users/adamj / ICQ# 2350330 / fro@***.ab.ca >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / TSA Co-Admin / TSS Productions >
< FreeRPG & Shadowrun Webring Admin / The Shadowrun Supplemental >
< The Entity responsible for the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball >
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 01:45:44 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: [Admin] Off topic/Gencon/SR3
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

With Gencon coming up and Shadowrun Third Edition coming out, I reckon that
the next month is probably going to be the busiest month on this list ever.
I wouldn't be surprised to see 200 posts a day for the next month, after
SR3 comes out.

With that in mind, I want to take some time before the fact to be a bit of
a bitch.

Keep OT to a minimum. I mean absolutely bare minimum.

Make intelligent posts. We don't need people ranting about SR3 before
seeing it, or ranting over minor rules. We don't need millions of posts
asking "What's changed?!". Trust me, you'll find out what's changed.

Read posts before replying. Don't start assuming things based on one
persons interpretation of the new rules.

And this is a personal request -- Don't flood Mike at FASA with mail if you
can get the question answered on the list or some other way. He's already
busy as heck.. <g>

In short.. just play smart while we go through a big chance and adaptation
phase.. :)

-Adam
-
< http://www.interware.it/users/adamj / ICQ# 2350330 / fro@***.ab.ca >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / TSA Co-Admin / TSS Productions >
< FreeRPG & Shadowrun Webring Admin / The Shadowrun Supplemental >
< The Entity responsible for the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball >
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 03:48:46 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [Admin] Off topic/Gencon/SR3
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Once upon a time, Adam J wrote;

>And this is a personal request -- Don't flood Mike at FASA with mail if you
>can get the question answered on the list or some other way. He's already
>busy as heck.. <g>

And this list should be able to answer everything.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle
- G.I.Joe

I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 03:53:36 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [Admin] Off topic/Gencon/SR3
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

I wanted to add something as well. I don't entirely know what is going to
happen after Gencon, as there are going to be anywhere from 20-30 people
walking around advertising this lists' very existence this year. We stand a
chance of having a MASSIVE influx of subscribers.

Can I -please- (BEG BEG) the controllers of this list (you -know- who you are
;) to automatically send the FAQ when someone subscribes again? It is
something that I think would be a big help, assuming of course the subscriber
does read it.

-K (who promises to be nice ... for now :o)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 03:06:03 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Goth <xaos@*****.NET>
Subject: Why is it so bad? RE: ED/SR Connections
In-Reply-To: <001901bdbf67$b5a26f20$61a510cf@********>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> >Well, personally it seems odd to me that people who (A) don't like
> >Earthdawn...also, (B) deny the obvious connections within ED to SR
> >(according to 'canon').
>
> I don't deny it; it just didn't seem that obvious to me. I don't like it,
> either.

A good portion of my post was to make the point that everyone's style of
play is different, and you can play however you want to. SR without even
being aware of the existence of the ED books is just groovy.

> Well, I didn't; looking back now, I can see them, and I still don't like
> them. Any more insults to my intelligence, or can we drop this now?

Again, most of my post was acknowledging the existence of the links, not
making judgements about them. Also, I felt that I went out of my way to
point out the generalizations I was making, rather than making personal
remarks towards you. I apologize if you took them that way. (Being defensive
only makes your arguments suspect.)

>
> >There are numerous (well, at least two) web sites
> >that document exact pages, etc.
>
> David, I don't care if they have web pages that document how the
> Bible is a
> precursor to ED or SR, quoting chapter and verse. I still don't
> think it's
> a good idea.

<Sigh>...I merely mentioned them in case you/someone wanted to look them up
themselves and make their own judgement.

Though I AM very curious about your great opposition to the idea.

So, hopefully that will make my choice of 'subject' more clear now. Why
don't you like the 'idea' of this connection?

Also hopefully, this won't degenerate into a debate about the validity of
the existence of these 'links'. You yourself admitted that looking back, you
see them now. As I mentioned in my previous message, it doesn't really
matter what my opinion is, or your opinion on if they exist or not. That
seems a dead horse to beat. (An expression used in the USA to describe an
argument, such as abortion, that has been going on for a long time without
coming any closer to resolution.)

So, Why is it so bad?

-Dave-
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 03:13:03 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Goth <xaos@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: RPG deaths
In-Reply-To: <35C6B2DC.7F6B94B6@*****.com>
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> (if
> you know of a ACTUAL story please post it!).

try www.urbanlegends.com or urbanlegends.miningco.com

I think the first one has info about the 'actual' stories.

> BUT has anyone taken SR
> too far. That's is to say used live weapons(guns, knives, bats, etc.) to
> roleplay out and gotten hurt or killed?

That, I can't help you on. I highly doubt it.

-Dave-
xaos@*****.net
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 04:23:24 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Shamanic Mask
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>Force limits the number of successes you can have. But unlike in SR2,
>where you rolled dice equalling Force+Magic Pool+Foci, in SR3 you roll
>Sorcery+Spell Pool+Foci. THAT'S why a high Sorcery is actually even more
>important than it is today in SR2.
>
>So you may have a Force 10 Mana Bolt, but if you've got a Sorcery 2, you
>can only roll two dice (plus foci and pool obviously).
>
>On the other hand, if you have Sorcery 10 and Mana Bolt 2, you obviously
>don't know a powerful version of the spell and your successes are capped at
>two, despite your wide knowledge base.
>

Thats a bad example, because, afaik, even in prelimanry playtesting, damaging
spells were specifically excluded from this restriction. In fact, afaik, this
restriction is NOT part of standard SR3 spellcasting, but part of the
descrition of a few particular spells. I'll wait until I read my hardbound
SR3 after Gencon to say that without "afaik's", and would love a page ref from
anybody who DOES find said genric succes limit.

>and I've been using the stuff they gave us months ago to this day and have
>yet to encounter a complaint or a problem.

I would bet some hard cash that said stuff is NOT identical to SR3.

>If what I just said didn't convince you to dump it, it's unlikely the full
>SR3 will change your mind either.

Well, intiation isn't part of SR3, and I think some bonus for intiation along
those lines is a cool idea- I always thought it was dumb that learning a new
version of a spell costs the same, regardless of other known versions, and the
proposed idea (relevant to actual SR3 or not) handles that nicely.


Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 03:43:14 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: SR3 Info!
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-----Original Message-----
From: Grahamdrew <mnemonic25@*********.COM>
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Date: Monday, August 03, 1998 6:03 PM
Subject: SR3 Info!


>I don't know if this is BS or what, but I was on IRC and a guy poped
>into one of the DALnet Shadowrun channels. We started talking and the
>coversation shifted to SR3, he wanted to know if it was out yet. We
>talked about it for a second and said the magic system was really
>diffrent in SR3, we asked him how he knew...
>
>Aparently soume FASA representitives were at the Chiago Comix Con (can
>anyone confirm/deny?) and they were explaning some of the changes in
>SR3... (he was kinda vauge on that, adding to the BS probibility...

They were possibly giving a playtest / demo, or just a spiel?
I'd say that's not bullshit, becasue my GM is one of the FASA reps who was at
C^3- thats exactly what he was there to do.
Yes, the magic sytem is somewhat difrent, and yes, its more "like other
skills", in the same way VR2 is, as opposed to VR1 / stock sr2 decking. Its
one of many changes. It is a new edition, after all.
FASA will be explaining some of these diferences on thier web page, afaik.
Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 12:02:21 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Assault canon in RL
In-Reply-To: <AFFFCF221D65D111923800805FA7E86D501262@***********>
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bryan.covington@****.COM said on 15:49/3 Aug 98,...

> Single shot? I assume you are talking about this in
> terms of load a shell, fire, load another shell. As opposed to a clip.

With single-shot weapon I meant one that holds only one round,
and can therefore only be fired once before it must be loaded.

> They aren't like a LAW. (Then I assume you know this but I just thought
> I would clarify)

Those I would call disposable weapons -- fire until empty (usually
one shot), then chuck away.

> You could create a porting system to replicate a
> recoilless rifle concept. If you had lots of small holes (rather than
> the 3 large holes on the rear of most recoilless rifles). This would
> make it imperative to hold it properly when firing.

I don't quite understand what you're getting at here.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Money, tickets, passports! Money, tickets, passports!
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
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GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 12:02:22 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: HoL
In-Reply-To: <81F7A43B468BD111AFEC00A024EA0A2B7EF68C@*********.polytech.ac.nz>
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Danyel N Woods said on 11:39/4 Aug 98,...

> >...you're kidding, right? Anyone that enjoys a game where it is
> >possible to blow a hole the size of Slim Whitman in your opponent is
> >not normal. Not that there's anything wrong with that ;)
>
> Now this I have _gotta_ learn more about <g>. Exactly what is HoL?
> (Please define the acronym and give a brief game-concept precis.)

It stands for Human Occupied Landfill, which is a prison planet of
the Confederation Of Worlds (COW), and on which the game is
set. It's basically a twisted SF RPG with a sick sense of humor :)
The game is published by White Wolf's "Black Dog Game Factory"
label, and is entirely hand-written -- not a handwriting-like font,
but actually hand-written -- and you probably don't want to even
look at it if you're easily offended. If you're not, then it's a
brilliant book to read if you have some gaming experience.
Whether it's actually playable or not I still haven't found out,
though.

Oh yeah, the Slim Whitman bit is from Buttery Wholesomeness,
the only supplement for the game that was produced, where they
illustrate the lethality of the various weapons with little drawings
of country singer Slim Whitman (the last one is just a pair of
bloody boots :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Money, tickets, passports! Money, tickets, passports!
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 12:02:22 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
In-Reply-To: <35C65ED4.25F1@**********.com>
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Bai Shen said on 21:07/3 Aug 98,...

> -sigh- IR and heat are totally different!! When you use IR for seeing,
> you send out a beam, and then use special goggles to actually see the
> light(basically like using a flashlight, but on a frequency invisible to
> normal humans).

You are confusing active and passive IR systems. With active IR
(as used by older western and current Russian military vehicles),
you use an IR lightsource to illuminate the target and then use a
special viewer to pick up the reflected light and turn it into
images visible to human eyes. This was pioneered by the
Germans in late WWII, both on AFVs (Panther tanks and
supporting Sd.Kfz. 251s) and as infantry equipment (mainly on
Sturmgewehr 44s). This system is very useful if your enemy does
not have any IR viewing capabilities, but if they do you can make
yourself a sitting duck by using it.

Passive IR is where you use a more sophisticated viewer that can
pick up the IR emissions from the target without it being
illuminated by an IR light source. The advantage compared to
active IR is that your spotlights won't be seen by the enemy's IR
viewing equipment, but it's more difficult and more expensive to
make usable systems (which is why the Russians are stuck using
active IR on their AFVs). However, for military applications
passive IR is a much better choice than active IR.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Money, tickets, passports! Money, tickets, passports!
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 12:02:22 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Rigging and Bioware
In-Reply-To: <19980804011700.2796.rocketmail@******.yahoomail.com>
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Alexia said on 18:17/3 Aug 98,...

> Would the advantages my Rigger gets from an Adrenal pump go towards
> her control pool or no? It's bioware, not cyberware...

Rigger 2 page 16, under The Vehicle Control Rig: "Reaction and
Initiative bonuses normally provided by other factors [than a
VCR] do not apply; the VCR is the only source of such bonuses for
the rigger engaged in vehicle and drone combat."

There are some special situations described on the next few
pages, but as adrenal pumps aren't mentioned, they call under
the blanket statement I quoted above -- in short, no, your rigger
doesn ot get an increase in her Control Pool from her adrenal
pump.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Money, tickets, passports! Money, tickets, passports!
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 12:02:22 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Sperethiel Dictionary
In-Reply-To: <7d957a03.35c66d41@***.com>
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Michael vanHulst said on 22:09/3 Aug 98,...

> > >More or less the opposite of my first impression (gotten from one
> > >of the first three ED flyers from 1993). I thought it appeared to
> > >be closely linked to SR from the outset.
> Compounded by the reference to Earthdawn : the Scourge in the adventure Dark
> Angel, which IIRC was before the debut of ED.

And one of the newspaper articles in A Killing Glare, which was
written by a certain Louis J. Prosperi.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Money, tickets, passports! Money, tickets, passports!
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 12:02:21 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Mike's Course
In-Reply-To: <199808032044.OAA14942@******.carl.org>
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David Buehrer said on 14:44/3 Aug 98,...

> They're *source*books. :)
[snip]
> You don't have to use them. If you want, you can run a game
off the
> core rules alone and have more than enough fun.

I know that. And I don't use some books actively in my
campaign; for example, I own Cyberpirates, but I don't think my
players will become pirates any time soon, or will even have
anything to do with pirates. But the point is that if FASA brings
out sourcebooks for playing <whatever> in SR, many players will
get the impression that that's what SR is about -- after all they're
going to see the books in their local game store.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Money, tickets, passports! Money, tickets, passports!
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:34:28 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam L <runeweaver@********.NET>
Subject: Re: SR/Palladium
In-Reply-To: <35C5902C.462401DA@****.uni-oldenburg.de>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

<Drrakn pops outa the shadows to comment>
The campaign I'm running now is using SR rules, but a High Fantasy setting
(IE no -tech of any sort). SR rules are simple and concise as compared to
most other systems out there, making it easy to implement over IRC, so I
decided to use the SR rules over the mess of other systems I have laying
around the house.
-AdamL (Drrakn)
Oh yeah...I play a bit of Paladium as well (as well as any other RPG I can
get ahold of ;-)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 05:41:55 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: [Admin] Off topic/Gencon/SR3
In-Reply-To: <2abbd937.35c6be01@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 03:53 AM 8/4/98 -0400, you wrote:

>Can I -please- (BEG BEG) the controllers of this list (you -know- who you are
>;) to automatically send the FAQ when someone subscribes again? It is
>something that I think would be a big help, assuming of course the subscriber
>does read it.

I think I can work something out to that extents now that I have a new
account. I'll have to talk to the boxes owner this morning.. <g>

This brings up a point -- if you tell someone IRL or online about the list,
please don't just tell them how to subscribe and leave it at that. Either
point them towards the FAQ (http://www.coastnet.com/~dvixen), or take 5-10
minutes and actually explain the proper posting etiquette, not 2 talk like
a kewl d00d, snipping, proper quoting, etc.

Matter of fact, if you're going to plug the list at Gencon, you may want to
make up full page or half page handouts for the people you talk to, with
the lists address, basic commands, FAQ, so they don't have to write it all
down or remember it.. :)

-Adam J

-
< http://www.interware.it/users/adamj / ICQ# 2350330 / fro@***.ab.ca >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / TSA Co-Admin / TSS Productions >
< FreeRPG & Shadowrun Webring Admin / The Shadowrun Supplemental >
< The Entity responsible for the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball >
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:05:08 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: HoL
In-Reply-To: <81F7A43B468BD111AFEC00A024EA0A2B7EF68C@*********.polytech.ac.nz>
from "Danyel N Woods" at Aug 4, 98 11:39:38 am
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And verily, did Danyel N Woods hastily scribble thusly...
|Now this I have _gotta_ learn more about <g>. Exactly what is HoL?
|(Please define the acronym and give a brief game-concept precis.)

HoL? Human Occupied Landfill. (Pronounced Hole, there's an accent over the
O'

Hol is the place where the scum of the C.O.W. get dumped.
(C.o.w. = Confederation of worlds).

Concept? It's impossible to put it down to a simple concept.
It's an incredibly silly game in extremely bad taste, and it's hilarious
just reading throught the book.

Reading the 'claimer' at the beginning is enough to give you the idea.

Basically, take the disclaimer on any Rifts book, and reverse it completely,
and you have the HoL claimer.

:)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 08:17:31 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam L <runeweaver@********.NET>
Subject: Re: RPG deaths [Slightly OT]
In-Reply-To: <35C6B2DC.7F6B94B6@*****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>ok we all know that people died as a resault of taking D&D too far (if
>you know of a ACTUAL story please post it!). BUT has anyone taken SR
>too far. That's is to say used live weapons(guns, knives, bats, etc.) to
>roleplay out and gotten hurt or killed?
>--
> Napalm Sticks to Kidz,
> BigDaddy
Heh....Sorry all, but I just have to speak up about this one. I'll poke
around and see if I can FWD a copy of the original article (or just post
the addy) to the list. It wasn't so much that the fellows that were doing
it were taking it too far...they were mixing the game with mind-altering
drugs, which IMHO ain't a terribly bright idea. Some of the kids ended up
dead, I don't remember if it was OD or one of 'em went "nuts" or some such.
It just tends to irritate me when RP'rs get stuck in the same boat with a
few idiots and it give the hobby a bad name. (Heck...I'm stuck in the
middle of the bible belt, USA, so ye can just imagine the hell I get for
playing such "evil games" ;-)
Just My $.02
-Drrakn (AdamL)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:13:05 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
In-Reply-To: <35C65ED4.25F1@**********.com> from "Bai Shen" at Aug 3,
98 09:07:32 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did Bai Shen hastily scribble thusly...
|-sigh- IR and heat are totally different!! When you use IR for seeing,
|you send out a beam, and then use special goggles to actually see the
|light(basically like using a flashlight, but on a frequency invisible to
|normal humans).

*sigh*
IR is a VERY, VERY wide area in the electromagnetic spectrum.
The shortest IR frequencies are produced as radiated heat, and are detected
by passive infra-red.

LOnger wavelengths are produced by various lasers and semiconductors.
(Semiconductor use is mainly in the Remote control/optic decoupler area.)

Also at the high end is ACTIVE IR, where IR light is emitted and reflected
producing those goggles used for seeing in pitch blackness.

So Active and passive IR are different, yes, but Thermo is still IR.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:14:41 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
In-Reply-To: <35C6608C.188E@**********.com> from "Bai Shen" at Aug 3,
98 09:14:52 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did Bai Shen hastily scribble thusly...
|First off, the name's Bai Shen, not Ben. Secondly, IR is as you said,
|LIGHT. It's simply a different frequency than visible light. It
|doesn't measure heat.

But radiated heat IS IR.
See my other post wot I posted a few minutes ago.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:27:21 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
In-Reply-To: <v03102803b1ec365f753b@[206.146.96.88]> from "Pete Wilson"
at Aug
3, 98 10:05:11 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Pete Wilson hastily scribble thusly...
|
|Michael vanHuls wrote:
|
|
|>As has been said before, IR and "heat" are basicaly the same thing. Passive
IR
|>(like trolls get) is just sensing ambient heat from the surrounding area.
|> Active IR uses a lamp which projects Infrared radiation, allowing visibility.
|>So a troll may be able to get a system like eyelight or even an infrared lamp
|>to allow sight when there is no ambient heat.
|
|On a related note, since IR "light" can heat up things wouldn't the beam of
|light be more visible to other IR viewers. Handheld IR flashlights
|probably wouldn't be strong enough to have much of a visible affect, but
|vehicle mounted or fixed IR sources could be quite obvious.

That all depends on whether the lamps are emitting in the 'red' or 'hot' end
of the infra-red spectrum. I think they use the cool end for those things.

|With this in mind the more expensive security equipment will either be fine
|tuned to avoid a thermal path, or use a ultraviolet light.

UV light has problems of it's own.
Phosphorescence being a biggie.
UV (or black) light it what they use in discos to make your dandruff
sparkle.

:)

Also, the reason most washing powders clean things "whiter than white" is
because the powders actually flouresce. Absorbing UV light and emitting it
in the visual spectrum to make clothing appear "brighter" and
"cleaner".

So using UV wouldn't be very inconspicuous....
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:33:43 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: ED/SR Connections
In-Reply-To: <000501bdbf65$4c4a9400$ed5099d1@****> from "David Goth" at
Aug 4,
98 00:04:02 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did David Goth hastily scribble thusly...
|I may as well add an info/rant... One piece of undocumentable evidence I
|have was a Gencon I went to 2 or 3 years ago. FASA was planning on a trilogy
|that had two parts under the ED banner, with the conclusion under the SR
|banner. (Obviously, this has been killed...)

Only partly. The shadowrun book did come out, but the prequals (ED) didn't.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:35:57 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Going away!
In-Reply-To: <199808040553.WAA25140@******.primenet.com> from "Caric" at
Aug
3, 98 10:43:56 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Caric hastily scribble thusly...
|I don't plan on going nomail...I want to reveiw Spike lamentations when I
|get back :)

What? You mean the "WHERE IS EVERYONE?" and "I'M LONELY" posts?
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:36:38 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Make friends and influence people
In-Reply-To: <199808040555.WAA04685@****.coastnet.com> from "Dvixen" at
Aug 3,
98 11:10:28 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did Dvixen hastily scribble thusly...
|
|Well. I realise that it is hot outside, but I'd think that everyone keeps
|their copmuters inside and their brains out of the heat.

HOT? It's pissing down outside.
:)

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:39:19 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [GridSec] The guessing game
In-Reply-To: <199808040634.XAA06250@****.coastnet.com> from "Dvixen" at
Aug 3,
98 11:49:13 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did Dvixen hastily scribble thusly...
|
|Without posting to the list, figure out which threads are annoying me with
|their complete, total, utter, absoloute, whole, conclusive; crowning,
|exhaustive, thorough, plenary, abundant, saturated LACK of ON-TOPICness.
|
|Then stop posting on list in response to them. Maybe then you'd all have a
|break from my harping for everyone to get ON-TOPIC, neh?

Ooooo goody. An off topic guessing game thread...

I wonder how long we can stretch this one out for....

<Wind wind wind wind>
:)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:40:32 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] Black Cauldron
In-Reply-To: <c44772bf.35c6abb1@***.com> from "M. Sean Martinez" at Aug
4,
98 02:35:27 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did M. Sean Martinez hastily scribble thusly...
|
|In a message dated 8/4/98 2:28:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bigdaddy@*****.COM
|writes:
|
|> Why did disney cancel it or keep it
|> submerged for so long?
|
|Because it was dark movie and some people said that it involved the use of
|witchcraft. At least that is what I ahve been told.

Bloody american no-good bible bashers.
You can tell them by the fact that they have their brains scooped out of
their ears during their baptisms.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:44:13 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Shamanic Mask
In-Reply-To: <69a2d1bd.35c6adec@***.com> from "K is the Symbol" at Aug 4,
98 02:44:58 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did K is the Symbol hastily scribble thusly...
|
|In a message dated 8/3/1998 11:19:06 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
|robert.watkins@******.COM writes:
|
|> *scratch* Are they still keeping the caster's Sorcery attribute as the
|> target number to resist? Or have you already revealed too much?
|>
|Since when did they do this in Second Edition. I remember it in First Ed in
|some places, but not in Second Ed...

Either I've found a soul-mate who still played 1st Ed...
Or... It could be a left over from 1st Ed that they play as a house rule.

In 2nd Ed, force is and always has been the resistance test.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 08:45:21 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Rigging and Bioware
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 8/3/98 8:19:37 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
alexia_silverstein@*****.COM writes:

> Would the advantages my Rigger gets from an Adrenal pump go towards
> her control pool or no? It's bioware, not cyberware...

IMHO, no, as the adrenal pump's effects are on the physical body ... but (yes,
this is a yes, but thing), the effects on the mental attributes could affect
the rigger, and in that case, I would say yes.

-Herc
------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:47:26 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: RPG deaths
In-Reply-To: <35C6B2DC.7F6B94B6@*****.com> from "BigDaddy" at Aug 4,
98 03:06:04 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did BigDaddy hastily scribble thusly...
|
|<snip my shitznit>
|
|> THAT's IT!!! The topic's that were somehow detailed in the movie had
|> apparently disturbed some parents or viewers of some kind at the time. The
|> story also apparently had dealt too closely with "bad topics" that were
going
|> around at the time as well (in the shadow of the "AD&D Deaths" as I
recall).
|>
|
|ok we all know that people died as a resault of taking D&D too far

Do we? I though most of us (those with sense) knew that was a total and
utter load of crap produced by that wierd american woman who formed that
"B.A.D" group, or whatever it's called.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:56:25 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
In-Reply-To: <2054.199808041213@****.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk> from "Spike"
at Aug
4, 98 01:13:05 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Spike hastily scribble thusly...
|*sigh*
|IR is a VERY, VERY wide area in the electromagnetic spectrum.
|The shortest IR frequencies are produced as radiated heat, and are detected
^^^^^^^^^^^

D'OH! Should of course be wavelength... And I think I got them the wrong way
'round having looks at some of the other posts.

Longer wavelengths are radiated heat. Shorted ones are closer to the red
end of the visible spectrum....

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 09:02:58 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matt Penn <steelclaw@****.COM>
Subject: Re: RPG deaths

On Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:47:26 +0100 Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
writes:

>Do we? I though most of us (those with sense) knew that was a total and
>utter load of crap produced by that wierd american woman who formed that
>"B.A.D" group, or whatever it's called.

Oh, no. That lady's son committed suicide for some-such. Gave her the
impetus to start the "B.A.D." idea. Please note that from everything
I've heard, her son seemed to have been the Mayor of Nut Town and really
shouldn't have been playing RPGs, or interacting with society in any way,
shape or form. Not that Mrs. "B.A.D." is that much better.

-Matt, Homo Sapiens Robustus
"It's hard to roll dice in a straight-jacket..."

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 09:10:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

> >As has been said before, IR and "heat" are basicaly the same thing.
> Passive IR
> >(like trolls get) is just sensing ambient heat from the surrounding
> area.
> > Active IR uses a lamp which projects Infrared radiation, allowing
> visibility.
> >So a troll may be able to get a system like eyelight or even an
> infrared lamp
> >to allow sight when there is no ambient heat.
>
> On a related note, since IR "light" can heat up things wouldn't the
> beam of
> light be more visible to other IR viewers. Handheld IR flashlights
> probably wouldn't be strong enough to have much of a visible affect,
> but
> vehicle mounted or fixed IR sources could be quite obvious.
>
From the videos that I have seen, if you are wearing a
passive IR system and someone is waving around an IR flashlight, it
looks just like a normal one would to the naked eye. Same for a vehicle
mounted spotlight.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 08:30:41 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <pedersje@******.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU>
Organization: Rose-Hulman Insitute of Technology
Subject: Re: Going away!
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Spike wrote:
>
> And verily, did Caric hastily scribble thusly...
> |I don't plan on going nomail...I want to reveiw Spike lamentations when I
> |get back :)
>
> What? You mean the "WHERE IS EVERYONE?" and "I'M LONELY" posts?

Yippee. I'm going to be alone on the list with Spike for 6 days. Fun.
<g>

--
John Pederson otherwise known as Lyle Canthros, shapeshifter-mage
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes
convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe -- a
spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we
with our modest powers must feel humble."
--Albert Einstein
lobo1@****.com canthros1@***.com pedersje@******.rose-hulman.edu
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/4864 ICQ UIN 3190186
"I'm not fifty!" "SPOONMAN!!!" Number Two -- with a bullet!
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 08:36:18 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <pedersje@******.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU>
Organization: Rose-Hulman Insitute of Technology
Subject: Re: [OT] Black Cauldron
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

M. Sean Martinez wrote:
>
> In a message dated 8/4/98 2:28:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bigdaddy@*****.COM
> writes:
>
> > Why did disney cancel it or keep it
> > submerged for so long?
>
> Because it was dark movie and some people said that it involved the use of
> witchcraft. At least that is what I ahve been told.

Funny... I was always of the impression that the reason it hasn't been heard
much of in the last several years (how long has it been, anyway?) was because it
had bombed in the theaters. I remember reading something that claimed it as
having been none too successful a flick.

--
John Pederson otherwise known as Lyle Canthros, shapeshifter-mage
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes
convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe -- a
spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we
with our modest powers must feel humble."
--Albert Einstein
lobo1@****.com canthros1@***.com pedersje@******.rose-hulman.edu
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/4864 ICQ UIN 3190186
"I'm not fifty!" "SPOONMAN!!!" Number Two -- with a bullet!
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 09:44:15 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: RPG deaths
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

> >Do we? I though most of us (those with sense) knew that was a total
> and
> >utter load of crap produced by that wierd american woman who formed
> that
> >"B.A.D" group, or whatever it's called.
>
> Oh, no. That lady's son committed suicide for some-such. Gave her
> the
> impetus to start the "B.A.D." idea. Please note that from everything
> I've heard, her son seemed to have been the Mayor of Nut Town and
> really
> shouldn't have been playing RPGs, or interacting with society in any
> way,
> shape or form. Not that Mrs. "B.A.D." is that much better.
>
As far as I'm concerned (and this is what I told my mom
when she "expressed concern") if they died playing D&D (or whatever)
they were gonna off themselves anyway and D&D happened to be the
impetus. This is just filtering the gene pool by natural selection.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 07:46:17 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Mike's Course
In-Reply-To: <199808041006.EAA28779@******.carl.org> from "Gurth" at Aug
4,
98 12:02:21 pm
Content-Type: text

Gurth wrote:
/
/ But the point is that if FASA brings
/ out sourcebooks for playing <whatever> in SR, many players will
/ get the impression that that's what SR is about -- after all they're
/ going to see the books in their local game store.

Ah. Okay, that's a good point that I hadn't thought of (once again I
was assuming that the general public had as much common sense as I do
:(

Keep in mind that the basics (SSC, Shadowteck, Awakenings, VR2, R2, and
Thingummy) are still on the shelves at the game store. Hopefully
players and GMs will realize that they are the core sourcebooks and the
other sourcebooks are optional flavors. Of course, that's an awful lot
to hope for.

I'll reserve my opinion until I see how SR3 is presented. That will
make all the difference in the world, IMHO.

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 09:47:22 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: RPG deaths
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

> > THAT's IT!!! The topic's that were somehow detailed in the movie
> had
> > apparently disturbed some parents or viewers of some kind at the
> time. The
> > story also apparently had dealt too closely with "bad topics" that
> were going
> > around at the time as well (in the shadow of the "AD&D Deaths" as
I
> recall).
>
I remember one with Tom Hanks (I think) in it. The game was
called Monsters and Mazes and that may have been the title of the movie
also. Not a great movie all in all. They went and played in a mine or
some such and Tom Hanks lost it and thought his moms house was an Inn.

> ok we all know that people died as a resault of taking D&D too far (if
> you know of a ACTUAL story please post it!). BUT has anyone taken SR
> too far. That's is to say used live weapons(guns, knives, bats, etc.)
> to
> roleplay out and gotten hurt or killed?
>
Apparently there were tales spun of people playing in
the large steam pipes under my college campus. They were down there when
they pressure tested the system one summer. Guess they failed their
saving throw.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 14:50:22 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Going away!
In-Reply-To: <35C70D01.B3FC0963@******.rose-hulman.edu> from "John E
Pederson"
at Aug 4, 98 08:30:41 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did John E Pederson hastily scribble thusly...
|
|Spike wrote:
|>
|> And verily, did Caric hastily scribble thusly...
|> |I don't plan on going nomail...I want to reveiw Spike lamentations when I
|> |get back :)
|>
|> What? You mean the "WHERE IS EVERYONE?" and "I'M LONELY" posts?
|
|Yippee. I'm going to be alone on the list with Spike for 6 days. Fun.
|<g>

Now what ARE we going to do with out time?
You any good at programming in 'C'?

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 07:52:50 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: License plates
In-Reply-To: <199808040008.SAA21137@******.carl.org> from "Michael
vanHulst"
at Aug 3, 98 08:06:43 pm
Content-Type: text

Michael vanHulst wrote:
/
/ In a message dated 8/3/98 12:37:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
/ bryan.covington@****.COM writes:
/
/ > > The technology for the licence plate/ticket thing is alive and well in
/ > > Australia.
/ <snip>
/
/ I have seen a lot of of those systems on TV. They are being fought here in
/ the US on some levels. Basically the lawyers say it comes down to the innocent
/ until proven guilty idea, if the person lends a car out and the driver speeds,
/ the owner gets the ticket and must go to court to "prove" his/her innocence.

Which is were the multipass idea could come in.

Let's say that you need your SIN card to start a car, any car. The
transponder broadcasts the driver's SIN *and* the car's registration
number. Any trafic fines will be directed towards the driver, and the
traffic monitoring system can keep track of stolen cars, directing
LoneStar officers to cars that are not being driven by their owners
(unless the owner has registered the fact that he's loaning his car
out).

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 09:51:53 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: License plates
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

> I have seen a lot of of those systems on TV. They are being fought
> here in
> the US on some levels. Basically the lawyers say it comes down to the
> innocent
> until proven guilty idea, if the person lends a car out and the driver
> speeds,
> the owner gets the ticket and must go to court to "prove" his/her
> innocence.
> The barcode system would be the same, except for a photo would not
> be
> issued, just a reading of the barcode and the info would come through
> on a
> computer.
> So if you speed, you might not even be home before you recieve an
> e-mail
> saying you have been fined:-)
>
Well they lost, we got'em.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 09:52:52 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: License plates
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

> Page 30, Lone Star Handbook under the Division of Traffic Patrol
> paragraph.
> One thing that is interesting to mention is that even though the LSH
> mentions
> a barcode it doesn't mention it in the context of a licence plate.
>
> "Fixed-radar drones scan sections of highways or city streets for
> speeding
> vehicles.
> When a drone spots a vehicle moving faster than allowed, the drones
> autonomous
> camera scans it for a barcode and directs a ticket to the appropriate
> address through
> a cellular LTG link. If a vehicle jams the radar drone's signal -
> regardless of the vehicles
> speed - the drone scans the jamming vehicle's barcode and sends a
> ticket
> for the
> maximum speeding fine plus a fine for using restricted hardware."
>
So all you have to do is not have a bar code and you can
drive like Mario Andretti?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 07:57:32 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: [Admin] Off topic/Gencon/SR3
In-Reply-To: <199808040742.BAA27390@******.carl.org> from "Adam J" at Aug
4,
98 01:45:44 am
Content-Type: text

Adam J wrote:
/
/ With Gencon coming up and Shadowrun Third Edition coming out, I reckon that
/ the next month is probably going to be the busiest month on this list ever.
/ I wouldn't be surprised to see 200 posts a day for the next month, after
/ SR3 comes out.
/
/ With that in mind, I want to take some time before the fact to be a bit of
/ a bitch.
/
/ Keep OT to a minimum. I mean absolutely bare minimum.

And here's something else that you can do. Consider the option of
replying personally. Sometimes a reply doesn't have to go to the
whole list. Ask yourself, "Do I really *need* to send this to the
entire list?" If the answer is "No", then please send your response
directly to the original sender.

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 08:00:46 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: RPG deaths
In-Reply-To: <19980804.090307.16686.3.steelclaw@****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 09:02 AM 8/4/98 -0400, you wrote:

>Oh, no. That lady's son committed suicide for some-such. Gave her the
>impetus to start the "B.A.D." idea. Please note that from everything
>I've heard, her son seemed to have been the Mayor of Nut Town and really
>shouldn't have been playing RPGs, or interacting with society in any way,
>shape or form. Not that Mrs. "B.A.D." is that much better.

Was. She (Patricia Pulling) died in 1997.

-Adam
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 08:00:44 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: License plates
In-Reply-To: <199808041354.HAA01663@******.carl.org> from
"bryan.covington@****.COM" at Aug 4, 98 09:52:52 am
Content-Type: text

bryan.covington@****.COM wrote:
/
/ > "Fixed-radar drones scan sections of highways or city streets for
/ > speeding
/ > vehicles.
/ > When a drone spots a vehicle moving faster than allowed, the drones
/ > autonomous
/ > camera scans it for a barcode and directs a ticket to the appropriate
/ > address through
/ > a cellular LTG link. If a vehicle jams the radar drone's signal -
/ > regardless of the vehicles
/ > speed - the drone scans the jamming vehicle's barcode and sends a
/ > ticket
/ > for the
/ > maximum speeding fine plus a fine for using restricted hardware."
/
/ So all you have to do is not have a bar code and you can
/ drive like Mario Andretti?

I would assume that the drone would notify LoneStar of a vehicle
without a barcode, after which LS would pull the guy over and arrest
him for speeding, reckless driving, aggressive driving, jamming the
transponder, driving without a barcode, and anything else they could
think of.

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 08:05:59 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Going away!
In-Reply-To: <35C70D01.B3FC0963@******.rose-hulman.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 08:30 AM 8/4/98 -0500, you wrote:

>> What? You mean the "WHERE IS EVERYONE?" and "I'M LONELY"
posts?
>
>Yippee. I'm going to be alone on the list with Spike for 6 days. Fun.
><g>

I'll still be here, too. :/

-Adam
Bumblefuck.
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 10:07:24 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: Assault canon in RL
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

> > Single shot? I assume you are talking about this in
> > terms of load a shell, fire, load another shell. As opposed to a
> clip.
>
> With single-shot weapon I meant one that holds only one round,
> and can therefore only be fired once before it must be loaded.
>
I figured.

> > They aren't like a LAW. (Then I assume you know this but I just
> thought
> > I would clarify)
>
> Those I would call disposable weapons -- fire until empty (usually
> one shot), then chuck away.
>
Cool.

> > You could create a porting system to replicate a
> > recoilless rifle concept. If you had lots of small holes (rather
> than
> > the 3 large holes on the rear of most recoilless rifles). This would
> > make it imperative to hold it properly when firing.
>
> I don't quite understand what you're getting at here.
>
Ever seen the barrel of a paintball gun? Kinda like
that. I'll assume you haven't even if you have and try to explain.
The breech of a recoilless rifle has 3 large holes in
the back which release the backblast in one massive firestorm. I'm
suggesting using lots of smaller holes to release the pressure without
the flame-thrower effect.
Rings of holes around the barrel. Probably angled in
bore in one direction or another to disperse the pressure. So you get
100 little flashes instead of one monster one.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 10:08:29 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [Admin] Off topic/Gencon/SR3
In-Reply-To: <199808041357.HAA01737@******.carl.org>

On 4 Aug 98, at 7:57, David Buehrer wrote:

> And here's something else that you can do. Consider the option of
> replying personally. Sometimes a reply doesn't have to go to the
> whole list. Ask yourself, "Do I really *need* to send this to the
> entire list?" If the answer is "No", then please send your response
> directly to the original sender.

I guess I might as well chime in with a suggestion as well. If you
can, try to read through your messages before replying. More often
than not, two people say the same thing. I know this will happen a
lot with a new product, as people ask for page number references and
what not.

And another thing. In order to help facilitate the above, please make
sure to maintain a relavent subject line. If you change the topic,
change the subject line, or better yet, start a new thread.

--

=================================================================
- Tim Kerby - drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
=================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 10:08:29 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: RPG deaths
In-Reply-To: <B0000725131@******.lis.ab.ca>

On 4 Aug 98, at 8:00, Adam J wrote:

> Was. She (Patricia Pulling) died in 1997.

I was going to say something, but....

Speak well of the dead, Tim, speak well of the dead....

--

=================================================================
- Tim Kerby - drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
=================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 10:10:10 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: [OT] Black Cauldron
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

> Bloody american no-good bible bashers.
> You can tell them by the fact that they have their brains scooped out
> of
> their ears during their baptisms.
>
Careful Spike.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 09:12:05 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] Black Cauldron
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>> Bloody american no-good bible bashers.
>> You can tell them by the fact that they have their brains scooped
>> out of their ears during their baptisms.
>
> Careful Spike.

No doubt, since one of those "Bible bashers" happens to be my mother....
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 07:12:40 +0800
Reply-To: Oliver McDonald <oliver@*********.com>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Oliver McDonald <oliver@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:07:32 -0400, Bai Shen wrote:

>> > Jus' a quick comment. Thermo and IR are _NOT_ the same thing. Thermo
>> > is the ability to see heat. IR is like light, but on a different
>> > wavelength(which humans can't percieve).
>> I see what you are saying, but I think that most (if not
>> all) our current "heat sensing" tech is passive IR. Is there another
way
>> to do this?
>
>-sigh- IR and heat are totally different!! When you use IR for seeing,
>you send out a beam, and then use special goggles to actually see the
>light(basically like using a flashlight, but on a frequency invisible to
>normal humans).

Or you can use the same goggles in passive mode to see the heat that is part of the
normal background. Let me give you an example, take a bar of steel, heat it. As it gets
hotter it starts to radiate its heat, initially in the InfraRed (IR) spectrum of
Electromagnetic Radiation (EM). As you continue to heat it, it starts to glow red, higher
up in the EM Spectrum. If you continue to heat it, it starts to glow in still more
portions of
the EM spectrum, until it appears white, as it is now radiating in most portions of the
spectrum.

If you like, when I have the time, I will go down to my public library, and pick a basic
physics text, and quote from it directly. (Or you can.)


PS. Bai Shai, I apologize that I got your name wrong earlier.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Oliver McDonald - oliver@*********.com
http://web2.spydernet.com

Space. The Final Frontier. Let's not close it down.

Brought to you via CyberSpace, the recursive frontier.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 10:18:34 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Going away!
In-Reply-To: <B0000725146@******.lis.ab.ca>

On 4 Aug 98, at 8:05, Adam J wrote:

> I'll still be here, too. :/

Adam, shouldn't that be :(

We'll miss you!

--


=================================================================
- Tim Kerby - drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
=================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:18:58 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: RPG deaths
In-Reply-To: <SHADOWRN%98080410030383@********.ITRIBE.NET> from "Tim
Kerby" at
Aug 4, 98 10:08:29 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Tim Kerby hastily scribble thusly...
|
|On 4 Aug 98, at 8:00, Adam J wrote:
|
|> Was. She (Patricia Pulling) died in 1997.
|
|I was going to say something, but....
|
|Speak well of the dead, Tim, speak well of the dead....

Can't imagine why. Do people speak well of Adolf Hitler now, just 'cos he's
dead?

The dead should only be respected if they EARNED that respect in life.
Besides, they make such easy targets, not being able to answer back, an
all...
:)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:19:44 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] Black Cauldron
In-Reply-To: <AFFFCF221D65D111923800805FA7E86D50127A@***********> from
"bryan.covington@****.COM" at Aug 4, 98 10:10:10 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did bryan.covington@****.COM hastily scribble thusly...
|
|> Bloody american no-good bible bashers.
|> You can tell them by the fact that they have their brains scooped out
|> of
|> their ears during their baptisms.
|>
| Careful Spike.
|

Why? We don't have any "You'll burn in hell for saying that" type on this
list...
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:20:27 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] Black Cauldron
In-Reply-To: <01ac01bdbfb1$df55ca20$6a0013cf@********> from "Patrick
Goodman"
at Aug 4, 98 09:12:05 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Patrick Goodman hastily scribble thusly...
|No doubt, since one of those "Bible bashers" happens to be my mother....
|

My deepest condolences....
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 09:25:24 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Edward Poe <epoe@***.PCNETINC.COM>
Subject: Re: Going away!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

>I'll still be here, too. :/
>
>-Adam

Me, too, Adam. Me, too.

Lurker Hedley, who hasn't been to Gencon since 1985.
Married with baby, hoping my daughter grows up liking RPGs.
I need an excuse to go again...
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 10:28:40 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] Black Cauldron
In-Reply-To: <2504.199808041419@****.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>

On 4 Aug 98, at 15:19, Spike wrote:

> Why? We don't have any "You'll burn in hell for saying that" type on this
> list... --

Heathen! You'll burn in hell for that!

:)

--

=================================================================
- Tim Kerby - drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
=================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 10:30:45 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: RPG deaths
In-Reply-To: <2497.199808041418@****.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>

On 4 Aug 98, at 15:18, Spike wrote:

> Can't imagine why. Do people speak well of Adolf Hitler now, just 'cos
> he's dead?

Good point, Spike.

> The dead should only be respected if they EARNED that respect in life.

True. And since Ms. Pulling did not, I will say what I wanted to when
I heard she had died:

Good.

--



=================================================================
- Tim Kerby - drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
=================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 10:37:26 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: [OT] Black Cauldron
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

> And verily, did bryan.covington@****.COM hastily scribble thusly...
> |
> |> Bloody american no-good bible bashers.
> |> You can tell them by the fact that they have their brains scooped
> out
> |> of
> |> their ears during their baptisms.
> |>
> | Careful Spike.
> |
>
> Why? We don't have any "You'll burn in hell for saying that" type on
> this
> list...
>
No, but as I happen to have been baptized and am
Christian, and don't consider myself retarded, you are treading on thin
ice. I really don't take kindly to people bashing my entire faith just
because a few people decide that anyone that doesn't agree with them is
going to a hell. This sort of broad based stereotyping is insulting and
worse...just what they were doing to you Spike.
Rise above it for a change. All gamers aren't Satanists
just because one kid was, all gamers aren't wimps just cause some are
(nods to Erik), and all Christians haven't had "their brains scooped out
of their ears during their baptisms", just cause some act like it.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 09:40:14 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [OT] Black Cauldron
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>Rise above it for a change. All gamers aren't Satanists just
>because one kid was, all gamers aren't wimps just cause some are
>(nods to Erik), and all Christians haven't had "their brains scooped
>out of their ears during their baptisms", just cause some act like it.

<long, loud, sustained applause>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 09:41:27 -0500
Reply-To: The Bookworm <Thomas.M.Price@*******.edu>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Bookworm <Thomas.M.Price@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Going away!
In-Reply-To: <35C67FF0.6158@*********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Jett wrote:

> Going NOMAIL, since I"m leaving bring and early in the morning for
> GenCon. See you guys all when I get back!
>
> Whee! I'm the first to go NOMAIL! Hehehe! Now I feel so special. ;)

HA! Some of us like to feel the pain of wading through one thousand
messages in our inbox on Monday! Or mabey we just dont want to miss
anything important. Or mabey we just like to hear all that you people say
about us in our absence. :)

Thomas Price
aka The Bookworm
thomas.m.price@*******.edu
tmprice@***********.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 10:18:58 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Admin] Off topic/Gencon/SR3
In-Reply-To: <SHADOWRN%98080410024137@********.ITRIBE.NET>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

>
> > And here's something else that you can do. Consider the option of
> > replying personally. Sometimes a reply doesn't have to go to the
> > whole list. Ask yourself, "Do I really *need* to send this to the
> > entire list?" If the answer is "No", then please send your
response
> > directly to the original sender.
>
> I guess I might as well chime in with a suggestion as well. If you
> can, try to read through your messages before replying. More often
> than not, two people say the same thing. I know this will happen a
> lot with a new product, as people ask for page number references and
> what not.

Yeah, and you should probably read all the messages in the thread to
see if someone has already said what you would say....Oh.

-=SwiftOne=-
(I couldn't resist...and I figured I'd better get it out of my system
BEFORE GenCon. I promise I'll be good then :))
Brett Borger
SwiftOne@***.edu
AAP Techie
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 08:48:31 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: [Admin] Re: [OT] Black Cauldron
In-Reply-To: <AFFFCF221D65D111923800805FA7E86D50127C@***********>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:37 AM 8/4/98 -0400, you wrote:

>> Why? We don't have any "You'll burn in hell for saying that" type on
>> this
>> list...
>>
> No, but as I happen to have been baptized and am
>Christian, and don't consider myself retarded, you are treading on thin
>ice. I really don't take kindly to people bashing my entire faith just
>because a few people decide that anyone that doesn't agree with them is
>going to a hell. This sort of broad based stereotyping is insulting and
>worse...just what they were doing to you Spike.
> Rise above it for a change. All gamers aren't Satanists
>just because one kid was, all gamers aren't wimps just cause some are
>(nods to Erik), and all Christians haven't had "their brains scooped out
>of their ears during their baptisms", just cause some act like it.

This thread dies NOW.

I realize you're already trying to be yourselves and defend/bash as you
please, but this list is not the place for it.

You have Sundays or those after midnight incubation rituals for that.

-Adam J
AFL and FCotSB
-
< http://www.interware.it/users/adamj / ICQ# 2350330 / fro@***.ab.ca >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / TSA Co-Admin / TSS Productions >
< FreeRPG & Shadowrun Webring Admin / The Shadowrun Supplemental >
< The Entity responsible for the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball >
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 16:12:01 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [OT] Black Cauldron
In-Reply-To: <AFFFCF221D65D111923800805FA7E86D50127C@***********> from
"bryan.covington@****.COM" at Aug 4, 98 10:37:26 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did bryan.covington@****.COM hastily scribble thusly...
| No, but as I happen to have been baptized and am
|Christian, and don't consider myself retarded, you are treading on thin
|ice.

I dissagree.
Are you a bible basher? Do you find things offensive and then try to get
them benned because they're "Dangerous" and encourage "Devil worship"
or
"The summoning of demons"?

No?

I really don't take kindly to people bashing my entire faith just
|because a few people decide that anyone that doesn't agree with them is
|going to a hell.

I didn't. I said *Bible Bashers* have their brains scooped out, not
everyone.


|This sort of broad based stereotyping is insulting and
|worse...just what they were doing to you Spike.

I thought the thing was targetted quite specifically.
Read more carefully,


| Rise above it for a change. All gamers aren't Satanists
|just because one kid was, all gamers aren't wimps just cause some are
|(nods to Erik), and all Christians haven't had "their brains scooped out
|of their ears during their baptisms", just cause some act like it.

Where did I say all christians had had their brains scooped out?
Please quote that peice of text. I'm intregued as to who said it.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 11:13:59 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sommers <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: HoL
In-Reply-To: <199808032133.RAA25589@********.mindspring.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 05:33 PM 8/3/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Once upon a time, Spike wrote;
> Tip of the iceberg Spike. Tip of the iceberg.
>You now know _one_ meaning of MC. If you had true illumination you would
>know the definition is far more complex than that.

Are there five, thirteen or twenty three different definitions of MC? True
Illumination would say all three, and only those who are Illuminated would
know how that is possible. :>

> "When _I_ use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful
>tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."
> -Through the Looking Glass
>
> I am MC23

Sommers
"The fat man walks beside the thirteen steps of the Ark, in Shangri La."
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 08:04:51 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Daryl Williams <enwill@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Going away!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

---Edward Poe <epoe@***.PCNETINC.COM> wrote:

> Lurker Hedley, who hasn't been to Gencon since 1985.
> Married with baby, hoping my daughter grows up liking RPGs.
> I need an excuse to go again...
>

Heh.. Well I think you should start her early.. remember
impressions made on a child early in life..stick longer. So take her
to GenCon soon.. so that she can get the feel of it. (And so you can
get your yearly fix.) :)

Mr. Smith

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 10:12:50 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Eric M. Farmer" <efarmer@********.CC.EDU>
Subject: Re: HoL
In-Reply-To: <199808040111.VAA17407@*****.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Paul Gettle wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> At 11:39 AM 8/4/98 +1200, Danyel wrote:
> >Now this I have _gotta_ learn more about <g>. Exactly what is HoL?
> >(Please define the acronym and give a brief game-concept precis.)
>
> I can do both, in three words:
> Human Occupied Landfil.
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.3
>
> iQCVAwUBNcZd/KPbvUVI86rNAQEeQAP/XcO7c5wax6OmRE/TdnJ/PtjcKWQTo5+T
> 3kw0tIl3C9wB6diwfh176sZj/Xk9sKzv9LESO7FFb9rYP4Fl6agiajNmakIaNMi8
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> =Kc+d
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> --
> -- Paul Gettle (RunnerPaul@********.com)
> PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
> C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
> (Public Key available by Finger)
>
> You dare defy my whims?!?
> I am the game master; you are my pawns!
> I created the world you see before you!
> I control your fate!"
> -- Dexter, Dexter's Laboratory.
>

Sorry to make you have to scroll through all this, but can we keep our
.sig's to, I don't know, 8 lines or less? That would make sifting through
all these messages a lot easier.

Thanks,
Eric Farmer
efarmer@********.cc.edu
http://www.cc.edu/~efarmer/
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 10:21:00 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Bookworm <Thomas.M.Price@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Going away!
In-Reply-To: <19980804150451.23969.rocketmail@******.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Daryl Williams wrote:
> Heh.. Well I think you should start her early.. remember
> impressions made on a child early in life..stick longer. So take her
> to GenCon soon.. so that she can get the feel of it. (And so you can
> get your yearly fix.) :)

They do run a day care area where you can drop off you kids for the day
while you go game. I dont rember how much it costs but it look preety
nice, they even get snacks and a nap time:).

Thomas Price
aka The Bookworm
thomas.m.price@*******.edu
tmprice@***********.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 11:24:58 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Black Cauldron
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970804023451.21e7f286@*****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 02:38 AM 8/4/98 -0400, Bull wrote:
>I have worked in a video retail store tha last two Holiday Seasons...
The
>Black Cauldron has not been previoulsy released on video, at least
not by
>Disney. Trust me, we really gotta keep up with Disney to know what
the
>hell is on and off the market currently...

I'll second this one, since I've been working Video Rental/Retail for
the past three years.
I've been emailing some people privately about this (because it just
seemed too far OT to bother the list with) and I've had one person
tell me he has a friend who's had a tape of it for years. However,
since he described it as "dark" and "grainy" I suspect that it's a
bootleg.

Disney is advertising Black Cauldron as being "On Video for the First
Time Ever" so if anyone has information to the contrary, you just
might have the basis for a class action false advertising suit.

<<Snip: Bull's comments about scaring the kiddies.>>

>However kids being the spoiled delinquents that they are (Well, It's
TRUE!
>I thought saying Damn was a big deal throughout Elementary school...
The
>other day I saw a couple of kids who couldn;t have been older than 8
>walking down the street cussing like a Gangsta Rapper :/ ), a little
>cartoon violence and scariness barely fazes them.

Of course. Just take a look at say... the original Texas Chainsaw
Massacre. Nearly a quarter of century ago, this movie was described as
the goriest and most horific film ever made. It was banned from
showing in the UK, Germany, and was banned at first in France but then
was allowed to be shown.

By today's standards, Texas Chainsaw Massacre is laughably tame. Any
8-year-old, with a super nintendo handed down from his older brother,
can not only experience, but be the direct cause of signifigantly more
ammounts of carnage on the very first level of Doom. (And if he knows
where the first secret area is, he even gets to use the chainsaw.)
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=Qv9B
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--
-- Paul Gettle (RunnerPaul@********.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
(Public Key available by Finger)

You dare defy my whims?!?
I am the game master; you are my pawns!
I created the world you see before you!
I control your fate!"
-- Dexter, Dexter's Laboratory.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 16:27:29 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: HoL
In-Reply-To: <Pine.HPP.3.96.980804101016.22948A-100000@********.cc.edu> from
"Eric M. Farmer" at Aug 4, 98 10:12:50 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Eric M. Farmer hastily scribble thusly...
|> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
|> Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.3
|>
|> iQCVAwUBNcZd/KPbvUVI86rNAQEeQAP/XcO7c5wax6OmRE/TdnJ/PtjcKWQTo5+T
|> 3kw0tIl3C9wB6diwfh176sZj/Xk9sKzv9LESO7FFb9rYP4Fl6agiajNmakIaNMi8
|> CGVZnZj+jhjFr8e2yIVmXAzEuugAaRxJ0/zdPZJlZ6FUl8guhQEEouGm7Nu+05KT
|> jXxb8p9c8Vk=
|> =Kc+d
|> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

|Sorry to make you have to scroll through all this, but can we keep our
|.sig's to, I don't know, 8 lines or less? That would make sifting through
|all these messages a lot easier.

<Moved about a bit....>

The above bit isn't a .sig, it's a PGP sig. Different thing.
I agree with the 11 line sig below <now snipped> though....

(At least mine are tidy)
:)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 10:37:04 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Eric M. Farmer" <efarmer@********.CC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
In-Reply-To: <35C6608C.188E@**********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

>
> Secondly, IR is as you said,
> LIGHT. It's simply a different frequency than visible light. It
> doesn't measure heat.

IIRC, don't heated objects emit IR radiation? Or am I just smoking a lot
of crack?

Eric Farmer
efarmer@********.cc.edu
http://www.cc.edu/~efarmer/
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 11:47:24 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Going away!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Spike wrote:
>And verily, did John E Pederson hastily scribble thusly...
>|Spike wrote:
>|> And verily, did Caric hastily scribble thusly...
>|> |I don't plan on going nomail...I want to reveiw Spike lamentations when I
>|> |get back :)
>|>
>|> What? You mean the "WHERE IS EVERYONE?" and "I'M LONELY"
posts?
>|
>|Yippee. I'm going to be alone on the list with Spike for 6 days. Fun.
>|<g>
>
>Now what ARE we going to do with out time?
>You any good at programming in 'C'?

I'm sticking around too... I'm just pissed that everybody's holding
back product releases 'til GenCon - there's just so much stuff that I've
been waiting for. :-(

btw - I know C. Too well. ;-)

James Ojaste
main(){char *s="Hello world!\n";printf("%c%s",0[s-1],++s);}
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 11:48:44 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: [Admin] Re: [OT] Black Cauldron
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

> This thread dies NOW.
>
> I realize you're already trying to be yourselves and defend/bash as
> you
> please, but this list is not the place for it.
>
> You have Sundays or those after midnight incubation rituals for that.
>
Sorry. Didn't mean to start a holy war. My fault, my
apologies.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 11:50:50 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

> > Secondly, IR is as you said,
> > LIGHT. It's simply a different frequency than visible light. It
> > doesn't measure heat.
>
> IIRC, don't heated objects emit IR radiation? Or am I just smoking a
> lot
> of crack?
>
Um, yes and yes (tons:).
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 16:51:29 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Going away!
In-Reply-To:
<cÊ%a=GOVMT.CANADA%p=GC+EC%lìNCR_EXCH2-980804154724Z-47192@***.ncr.ec.gc.ca>
from "Ojaste,James
[NCR]" at Aug 4, 98 11:47:24 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Ojaste,James [NCR] hastily scribble thusly...
|btw - I know C. Too well. ;-)

OOOO goodie.
I've got a bastard of a segmentation fault to get rid of.
:)

The scary thing is, I actually understood that main() program you just
typed.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 11:16:25 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wyrmy <elfman@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Going away!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> |Yippee. I'm going to be alone on the list with Spike for 6 days. Fun.
> |<g>
<snip spike stuff><G>

Well I'll still be here.:^)
Would be at GC,But cant afford the airfare and hotel :^(.Tell me if its
any good.
--
-W
============================
If you are a dreamer come in,
If you are a dreeamer, a wisher,
A liar, a magic jelly bean buyer,
Come In!
-What should be the motto of all internet users.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 11:29:27 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Eric M. Farmer" <efarmer@********.CC.EDU>
Subject: Re: RPG deaths
In-Reply-To: <000201bdbf7f$b3bb72c0$ed5099d1@****>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> > (if
> > you know of a ACTUAL story please post it!).
>
> try www.urbanlegends.com or urbanlegends.miningco.com
>
> I think the first one has info about the 'actual' stories.
>
> > BUT has anyone taken SR
> > too far. That's is to say used live weapons(guns, knives, bats, etc.) to
> > roleplay out and gotten hurt or killed?

I wrote an essay on this very topic. It's posted on my page, but if you
wanna go right there, its: http://www.cc.edu/~efarmer/rpg_influence.html

I hope you like. Plus there is a bibliography you can check out.

Eric Farmer
efarmer@********.cc.edu
http://www.cc.edu/~efarmer/
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 12:35:32 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Sommers <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: New Fasa page
In-Reply-To: <2650.199808041551@****.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I just went to check the FASA Shadowrun page and it came back bad. So I
went to this address: http://www.fasa.com/Shadowrun/Catalog/index.html and
it came up with a completely new look! I'm starting to check it out but I
wanted to be the first on the list to say it!

Sommers
"Ah, the benefits of working on computers all day. Knew there had to be at
least one..."
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 11:38:23 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <pedersje@******.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU>
Organization: Rose-Hulman Insitute of Technology
Subject: Re: Going away!
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Spike wrote:
> Now what ARE we going to do with out time?
> You any good at programming in 'C'?

Ah, lamentably, no. I can do some weeny stuff in Visual C++ ('print'? Oh, you
mean 'cout'... :) but that's about the limit of my programming experience as it
relates to C. Since I know better than to suggest M$ anything to *you*, I guess
I'll just kick around here quietly and keep to myself. Maybe I can get my shell
scripts working before they get back from GC (mmm... sed...)

--
John Pederson otherwise known as Lyle Canthros, shapeshifter-mage
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes
convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe -- a
spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we
with our modest powers must feel humble."
--Albert Einstein
lobo1@****.com canthros1@***.com pedersje@******.rose-hulman.edu
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/4864 ICQ UIN 3190186
"I'm not fifty!" "SPOONMAN!!!" Number Two -- with a bullet!
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 12:43:55 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: BigDaddy <bigdaddy@*****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Re: RPG deaths
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Spike wrote:
>
> And verily, did BigDaddy hastily scribble thusly...
> |
> |<snip my shitznit>
> |
> |> THAT's IT!!! The topic's that were somehow detailed in the movie had
> |> apparently disturbed some parents or viewers of some kind at the time. The
> |> story also apparently had dealt too closely with "bad topics" that
were going
> |> around at the time as well (in the shadow of the "AD&D Deaths" as
I recall).
> |>
> |
> |ok we all know that people died as a resault of taking D&D too far
>
> Do we? I though most of us (those with sense) knew that was a total and
> utter load of crap produced by that wierd american woman who formed that
> "B.A.D" group, or whatever it's called.
> --
>

B.A.D? or are you talking about M.A.D.D (mothers against drunk driving?)

--
Napalm Sticks to Kidz,
BigDaddy
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 10:50:15 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: RPG deaths
In-Reply-To: <35C73A4B.D40ACB4E@*****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 12:43 PM 8/4/98 -0400, you wrote:

>> Do we? I though most of us (those with sense) knew that was a total and
>> utter load of crap produced by that wierd american woman who formed that
>> "B.A.D" group, or whatever it's called.
>
>B.A.D? or are you talking about M.A.D.D (mothers against drunk driving?)

B.A.D.D. -- Bothered About Dungeons and Dragons.

Pat Pullings little.. thing.

-Adam
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 12:48:42 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: RPG deaths
In-Reply-To: <35C6B2DC.7F6B94B6@*****.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 03:06 AM 8/4/98 -0400, BigDaddy wrote:
>ok we all know that people died as a resault of taking D&D too far
(if
>you know of a ACTUAL story please post it!). BUT has anyone taken SR
>too far. That's is to say used live weapons(guns, knives, bats, etc.)
to
>roleplay out and gotten hurt or killed?

Actually, there are very few documented cases of death by D&D,
acording to my sources. In fact, there have been studies that indicate
that Role-Players are statistically less likely to commit suicide.

There are only two very high profile cases that I can name off the top
of my head:

The case of James Dallas Egbert III: This was the one where a 16 year
old (!) sophmore at Michigan State University went missing. Initial
investigations into the case were directed twoards Egbert's
connections with D&D fanatics on campus. However, it turned out that
Egbert's involvement with drugs and homosexuality were the factors
really to blame for his disaperence. He "ran away from it all",
originally staying at the house of one of his gay friends, after a
session of heavy drug use. When he was declared missing, and the
police searches started, he ended hopping houses from one gay friend
to the next, eventually ending up in Louisiana. It should be noted
that Egbert didn't commit suicide until nine months after the
investigator who had been searching for him for years had published a
book about the story, describing both the D&D fanatics that had been
the focus of the initial investigation, and also Egbert's
homosexuality and drug use.

The Von Stein murder: This one involved a conspiracy by a college
student and two of his dorm-mates to murder his step-father and
mother. It has been portrayed in the CBS tv movie "Honor thy Mother"
and the NBC miniseries "Cruel Doubt". Both movies conviently ignore
the effects of the broken home, and the heavy drug use by the son and
his two friends, and instead portray D&D as the instigator of the
crime.


While neither of these two high profile cases can specifically point
to D&D as an actual cause, there is still the issue of "taking the
game too far", what I like to refer to as "going down into the steam
tunnels". The steam tunnel phenomon was a product of its times, I
believe. Today, now that the gaming industry has matured some, there
are alternate outlets for people to direct those energies into. The
"Steam Tunnelers" were merely the gamers who put that extra bit of
their energy into their hobby.

The gamers who would have gone "steam tunneling" in the late 70s/early
80s are the ones who now devote the majority of their free time
twoards online gaming of some form or another, be it the first person
shooters, turn based strategy games, IRC based gaming, or MUD/MOO/MU*.
They are the ones who responsibly play the various LARPs. They are the
ones who take the time out of their schedules to develop and publish
net.books for their favorite games.

The only reason most people see "steam tunneling" as taking the game
"too far", is because of the whole suicide mythos that has been built
up around it.


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--
-- Paul Gettle (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 12:54:09 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <DeckerL@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Going away! -Reply
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker, Unix Admin (704)331-1149
deckerl@******.com Fax 331-1159
Moore & Van Allen, PLLC Pager 1-888-608-9633

>>> John E Pederson
<pedersje@******.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU> 08/04/98 12:38pm
>>>
>Ah, lamentably, no. I can do some weeny stuff in Visual C++
>('print'? Oh, you
>mean 'cout'... :) but that's about the limit of my programming
>experience as it
>relates to C. Since I know better than to suggest M$ anything to
>*you*, I guess
>I'll just kick around here quietly and keep to myself. Maybe I can
>get my shell
>scripts working before they get back from GC (mmm... sed...)

Ack....c is wonderful, but not with microsoft products. Give me
unix and gcc anyday. SED! Now there is an evil word...repeat
back......perl is good....perl is good...sed is bad. perl is good...
perl is good...sed is bad. :) I have a feeling this is OT, and
on the borderline area about OS's so.....
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:00:35 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: New Fasa page
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Sommers wrote:
>I just went to check the FASA Shadowrun page and it came back bad. So I
>went to this address: http://www.fasa.com/Shadowrun/Catalog/index.html and
>it came up with a completely new look! I'm starting to check it out but I
>wanted to be the first on the list to say it!

Well, the catalog didn't surprise me, but the main Shadowrun page did!
A bit more scrolling involved than I like, but decent. They could have
widened their margins a bit, too...

James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:14:30 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Collins <einan@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: RPG deaths
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>At 03:06 AM 8/4/98 -0400, BigDaddy wrote:
>>ok we all know that people died as a resault of taking D&D too far
>(if
>>you know of a ACTUAL story please post it!). BUT has anyone taken SR
>>too far. That's is to say used live weapons(guns, knives, bats, etc.)
>to
>>roleplay out and gotten hurt or killed?
>
>Actually, there are very few documented cases of death by D&D,
>acording to my sources. In fact, there have been studies that indicate
>that Role-Players are statistically less likely to commit suicide.
>
>There are only two very high profile cases that I can name off the top
>of my head:
>
>>snip examples<<

I have never heard of anything happening with Shadowrun but there have
been a few cases in the last few years of people going too far with
Vampire. IIRC they were mostly Masquarade (LARP) and not table top
players. The one that sticks out the most in my mind was 1 or 2 years ago
in Florida where a group of teen Vampire players killed somebody. As in
all the other cases there was extensive drug use involved, and in this
case there was apparently a charismatic leader in the group that talked
everyone else into doing it. IIRC he was never caught because his
accomplaces helped hide him. Of course true to form the media blamed it
on the game and only mentioned the drug use as an aside. You would also
get the idea from all of this that most roleplayers do drugs of one type
or another. I have generally found the opposite in the people I know,
most of whom don't even drink forget anything more serious.

Steve
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:08:05 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <DeckerL@******.COM>
Subject: Re: New Fasa page -Reply
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

<SNIP>
>Well, the catalog didn't surprise me, but the main Shadowrun
>page did!
>A bit more scrolling involved than I like, but decent. They could
>have widened their margins a bit, too...

I agree. A bit much scolling, but the artwork is very slick.
No new content :( But hopefully that will change soon.
Hopefully after SR3 they will use the web more...<hint> <hint>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker, Unix Admin (704)331-1149
deckerl@******.com Fax 331-1159
Moore & Van Allen, PLLC Pager 1-888-608-9633
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:13:07 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Skills
MIME-Version: 1.0
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bryan.covington wrote:
>> > like this, but I'll see about that when I get my SR3. If need be,
>> > I'm going to create my own skill web for 3rd edition.
>>
>> Oh, okay. As long as they're not totally getting rid of the concept.
>> That's one of the things I like about SR's skill system.
>
> I have a player who has been a thorn in my ass since the
>latest game started. One of his main bitch points is that its a lot
>easier to get a TN with his 6 charisma than with his 1 skill, even if
>its a 16 TN statistically his chances are better with the 6 dice.

Is he looking for 12s or something normally? In any case, you could
always go to the Companion and use the rule for partial defaulting
(basically, average the dice and average the TNs). This was something
that bothered a lot of people - spending karma to get a new skill which
meant that you were less likely to succeed...

> He and I have both been playing White Wolf's system for
>many years and grew to like the Stat+Skill system very much. It is
>practical, versatile and makes sense. I hope they move towards that so I
>can shut this guy up.

Ick! No way! SR is one of the rare systems that uses separate dice
for skills and it's much easier to deal with than stat+skill. If you
want that sort of system, get Cyberpunk. Or did you mean rolling stat
+ skill d6s? Again, no thanks - that would get brutal! Attributes are
useful enough as it is and cheaper to buy up than skills - getting to
use Quickness for your Combat pool, Reaction, and Firearms would be a
drastic change (and for little benefit, AFAICS).

James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:25:10 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: Skills
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

> > He and I have both been playing White Wolf's system
> for
> >many years and grew to like the Stat+Skill system very much. It is
> >practical, versatile and makes sense. I hope they move towards that
> so I
> >can shut this guy up.
>
> Ick! No way! SR is one of the rare systems that uses separate dice
> for skills and it's much easier to deal with than stat+skill. If you
> want that sort of system, get Cyberpunk. Or did you mean rolling stat
> + skill d6s? Again, no thanks - that would get brutal! Attributes
> are
> useful enough as it is and cheaper to buy up than skills - getting to
> use Quickness for your Combat pool, Reaction, and Firearms would be a
> drastic change (and for little benefit, AFAICS).
>
Firearms for example. 3 Firearms and say 3 quickness
(one of the caveats is that all the skills need to tie back to a stat
for general use).

TN = 6

3+3= 6d6 to roll

I am not suggesting this as a replacement system. There is a big
difference, WW uses d10's so the TNs can be higher and no big deal. I am
just explaining the point that it seems odd that the skills and stats
are totally separate. Of course I guess thats what the pools are for.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:36:12 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: RPG deaths
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

> I have never heard of anything happening with Shadowrun but there have
> been a few cases in the last few years of people going too far with
> Vampire. IIRC they were mostly Masquarade (LARP) and not table top
> players. The one that sticks out the most in my mind was 1 or 2 years
> ago
> in Florida where a group of teen Vampire players killed somebody. As
> in
> all the other cases there was extensive drug use involved, and in this
> case there was apparently a charismatic leader in the group that
> talked
> everyone else into doing it. IIRC he was never caught because his
> accomplaces helped hide him. Of course true to form the media blamed
> it
> on the game and only mentioned the drug use as an aside. You would
> also
> get the idea from all of this that most roleplayers do drugs of one
> type
> or another. I have generally found the opposite in the people I know,
> most of whom don't even drink forget anything more serious.
>
Actually now that you mention that, I do recall some
kids drinking blood and such, might be the same crew. There was a big
Hepatitis concern.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 10:35:41 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Why is it so bad? RE: ED/SR Connections
In-Reply-To: <000101bdbf7e$b9630220$ed5099d1@****>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 03:06 8/4/98 -0500, David Goth wrote:
>So, hopefully that will make my choice of 'subject' more clear now. Why
>don't you like the 'idea' of this connection?
...
>So, Why is it so bad?

The connection between Shadowrun and Earthdawn can be very easily
mishandled. Shadowrun is a cyberpunk game; Earthdawn is high fantasy.
Bringing *too much* ED into SR undermines the game concept of SR.

Part of the difference between high fantasy and cyberpunk is that
in high fantasy, you have mythic forces that are very present:
great good vs. great evil (Tolkien), human beings against great
evil with no great good to back them up(Hodgell), human beings against
things that are vastly more powerful and simply uncaring (Lovecraft).

Cyberpunk, in contrast, is a game about shades of grey. You roleplay
hardened criminals that any reasonable citizen would say should be locked
up somewhere they won't do any harm to the populace. Of course, the
government and the corporations that you fight against (often on the
behalf of another one) aren't that nice, either. Moral ambiguity is
the rule, with occasional exceptions.

Earthdawn has two big evils: the alien evil of the Horrors, and the
very human evil of the Theran empire, a bunch of slavers who want to
rule the world. Either one is a force to be battled and rebelled
against by right-thinking people. :-)

If you bring the Horrors into Shadowrun, it *makes sense* for enemies
to band together and stop them from encroaching on the world. There
*is* a possible campaign that has the player characters running around
trying to figure out how to stop Horrors and enlisting support from the
megacorporations, culminating in a titanic battle where the Horrors get
their asses handed to them on an orichalcum platter when they find out
that humans do research a lot *faster* than they did eight thousand
years ago, but it would wreck the usual Shadowrun continuity.

It doesn't help that the ED connection has been mishandled in the past.
I *like* having immortal elves in Shadowrun, but they only have small
territories for a good reason: they're players at the megacorporate
level, but if one of them individually slotted off a megacorp it would
need at least one megacorporate ally not to get gilched. They're
another force in the world, not a major one, and they shouldn't be
turning up under every rock.

Sargent and Gascoigne wrote some pretty bad novels involving the
ED/SR connection, Nosferatu and Black Madonna, and Worlds Without End
actually used immortal elves as main characters and implied a
Horror-centric theme coming into the SR world in the near
future. Fortunately, the Dragon Heart trilogy put nails in the coffin
of *that* particular theme. (While still allowing for the possibility
that some Horrors slipped through and can be around in sufficient supply
to be in roles as occasional opponents... but you're going to have to
wade through a lot of corrupted corporate employees to get at them,
'cos any Horrors that made it through aren't going to be stupid...)

Earthdawn also has a considerably more advanced system of magical theory.
The combination of a higher mana level and thousands of years of experience
in wielding magic means that magic is a very powerful force in the game.
In Shadowrun, magic and technology have to in an uneasy balance. If
Earthdawn magic gets imported to Shadowrun wholesale, technology will
fall behind. (There's another mythic battle there, but it's another one
that doesn't leave a Shadowrun world when the dust settles.) Of course,
with nanotech coming soon, Shadowrun could have a few years where the
tech gets too far ahead and some of the Earthdawn secrets might turn
up again...

Another problem is that it means you need a bunch more sourcebooks.
For a while I tried to buy my ED sourcebooks exclusively from the
Used section of the gaming store, but I got too curious and started
getting new ones. :-)

I, personally, *like* the SR/ED connection. It needs to be handled in
a subtle fashion, as a recurring theme in a campaign rather than *the*
theme of a campaign; I'm trying to do so in mine.

--
%% Max Rible %%% max@********.com %%% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "Don't keep all your bats in one belfry." - me %%
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:44:09 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shamanic Mask
In-Reply-To: <fad42934.35c6a60a@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 02:11 AM 8/4/98 EDT, you wrote:

>too bad you don't know but a fraction of the story behind the "House Rule"
>that Mike has mentioned.

Well gee, Keith, since I wasn't told more than what was posted, how the
hell am I supposed to know the full story? Unlike you, I'm not omniscient...

>Consider Health Magic and time reduction.
>
>Consider any of the simpler, permanent, transformation magics.
>
>Consider Ritual Magic and how the success limits to force ratio are going to
>come into play.

Point is? I can see what you are driving at, I understood that from the
start. And I don't see it as a problem. The problem here is that you want
your magic to still be oh-so-powerful. You want to be able to heal those
nine boxes of damage AND reduce your time spent doing it. You want your
rituals to whup ass and only take an hour or two.

Sorry, but as much as I love magic, it needed it's power cut off at the
knees. Steve and Mike have done a number of things that dramatically drop
the power of the friendly neighborhood magician.

I have not only considered all that you asked, but I've played the rules in
those situations. Can you say the same? I thought not. I like these
changes and I'll keep them.

>Consider if you will all of this and more Erik, And before you go saying that
>this system is a poor suggestion on our part,

I would suggest playing with SR3 before making house rules based on
half-heard and barely understood statements, even those made by me.

>Please also note that Mike mentioned the limitation is based upon the "magic
>attribute" of the character in question,

Which in the case of your games, means that your magicians will still be
able to whup major ass. I would have to guess that using Force as a cap
would depower Binder for example far too much for your liking.

>-K (who quite frankly it's time to agree with Rob, Nexx, Mike, and several
>others that Erik needs to consider more of the details that might exist,
as we
>take into account the fact that you don't know how to explain all the details
>of your games or gaming philosophies either. Turn about is beyond fair
place,
>it's Judicial)

Whatever Keith. I understand that more "details" might exist and often do.
I just don't feel to need to expound upon them or even give them any
credence. I weigh the facts and information available to me, I consider
them, I make an opinion and then I state it. Once reached, I stand by them.

And don't dare, by bringing others into this, try and make this anything
like and me vs. them or otherwise divide the list. This is between you and
I, Keith. Don't involve others.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 12:52:51 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Rigging and Bioware
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>In a message dated 8/3/98 8:19:37 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>alexia_silverstein@*****.COM writes:
>
>> Would the advantages my Rigger gets from an Adrenal pump go towards
>> her control pool or no? It's bioware, not cyberware...
>
>IMHO, no, as the adrenal pump's effects are on the physical body ... but
(yes,
>this is a yes, but thing), the effects on the mental attributes could affect
>the rigger, and in that case, I would say yes.


I'd agree technically there- adrenaline has a STRONG effect on the
neurotransmitter system, so some effect on rigging is valid. However, my
(sr1) version of Shadowtech says explicitly at the end of the Adrenal Pump
description that there is NO effect on rigging (or decking), and the VRC
description states its the only thing that affects rigged reaction. As for
mental STATs, willpower IS used in rigging (rarely- also in decking)- that
stat boost would still apply.

Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:45:16 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shamanic Mask
In-Reply-To: <c81196b7.35c6a6cc@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 02:14 AM 8/4/98 EDT, you wrote:

>Just out of the sheer spite of things, I am NOT going to cite a ruling at
this
>point in time, because at one point in time, it was you (Erik) that cited a
>similar rule to me.

What?

>I am using a "House Term", but NOT a "House Rule". There
>is an optional rule in the sourcebooks concerning how "visible" is magic to
>the mundane viewer, concerning force of the spell as compared to the caster's
>magic attribute and whatnot.

That's part of the BBB. Not house, not optional, just not often used.

<rant>
This is exactly the sort of thing that drives me up the wall with you. If
it was a House Term, why couldn't you just say that right up front, right
off the bat? Instead we get this unneeded extension of the thread because
people start thinking that mages have some sort of shaman's mask also, when
appparently all you were really referring to was a BBB rule though by a
different terminology.

You talk about campaign events as if they are part of the canon history
presented by FASA, you talk about house rules as if they are canon, you do
this sort of thing far too often, you and Mike. ALWAYS state up front when
you are talking about House History, House Rules, House Terms or anything
"House."

This isn't about my supposed lack of creativity or alleged
narrow-mindedness, it's about clarity for everyone on the list. It's
rather difficult to discuss rules or even the game itself sometimes when
one person is working from a canon point of view and someone else is
discussing it strictly through their house rules; it's even more difficult
when two people with their own house variants try to discuss things.
</rant>

>And as I mentioned in an earlier post, it is something that we use to give
the
>player the chance to earn some role-playing points by elaborating on what
they
>think / feel that the magical "signature/mask" of their character is as they
>perform various feats.

Okay, this is cool. This is perfectly fine. I've got a player who has a
sorcery adept, a sort of pseduo-druid, that does something similar, giving
a visual element/representation to all his spells. Since it has no real
affect other than make him recognizable and doesn't affect his actual
spellcasting, I let it happen. It allows him an extra element of
role-playing, which is something I'm not going to begrudge and actively
encourage from my players.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:46:12 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shamanic Mask
In-Reply-To: <00d301bdbf9a$ecd20ea0$87bbadce@****>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 04:23 AM 8/4/98 -0700, you wrote:

>Thats a bad example, because, afaik, even in prelimanry playtesting, damaging
>spells were specifically excluded from this restriction. In fact, afaik,
this
>restriction is NOT part of standard SR3 spellcasting, but part of the
>descrition of a few particular spells. I'll wait until I read my hardbound
>SR3 after Gencon to say that without "afaik's", and would love a page ref
from
>anybody who DOES find said genric succes limit.

You could be right, but I don't recall the limitation specifically NOT
being applied to damaging spells; it doesn't make much sense to me that
combat-type spells would be exempt, while healing and detection spells
wouldn't be. If it was there, I managed to miss it. There were some
organizational problems with the information, making it a bit difficult to
access all the needed information easily, so it's possible I managed to
miss it. If I made an error, or if it changed in the final version, I'll
probably adopt my stance as a house rule, because I like what it does, how
it affects the game overall.

And yeah, it probably wasn't the best example. But I was trying to get out
of the office.

>>and I've been using the stuff they gave us months ago to this day and have
>>yet to encounter a complaint or a problem.
>
>I would bet some hard cash that said stuff is NOT identical to SR3.

To MY knowledge, that is how it is or at least was. It's possible that it
changed in the final version or that I missed a single phrase somewhere in
all the notes and addendums, or that I missed an important e-mail.

I'll review the rules I have tonight and take a look again.

>>If what I just said didn't convince you to dump it, it's unlikely the full
>>SR3 will change your mind either.
>
>Well, intiation isn't part of SR3, and I think some bonus for intiation along
>those lines is a cool idea- I always thought it was dumb that learning a new
>version of a spell costs the same, regardless of other known versions, and
the
>proposed idea (relevant to actual SR3 or not) handles that nicely.

Agreed on all points. I seem to recall you bringing up those points in the
discussion a while back, but I have no idea how any of it was resolved, or
it is was at all.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 19:57:35 +0200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: AlSeyMer <AdSM@******.BE>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
In-Reply-To: <Pine.HPP.3.96.980804101423.22948B-100000@********.cc.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:37 4/08/98 -0500, Eric M. Farmer wrote:
>>
>> Secondly, IR is as you said,
>> LIGHT. It's simply a different frequency than visible light. It
>> doesn't measure heat.
>
>IIRC, don't heated objects emit IR radiation? Or am I just smoking a lot
>of crack?
>
>Eric Farmer
> (snip sig)

No. Usually. Heated objects emit IR radiation, when there is too much heat
for them to absorb.

A thermograph is, strictly, something that "write the temperature".
Commonly , a thermograph, or thermographic imaging device, is an object
that let you know the temperature of an object from a distance.

Both IR goggles and thermographic imaging (TID) device will let you know if
an object is hot or cold, and the TID may give you an idea of its temperature.

IIRC, the big difference between IR goggles and TID is not the principles
on which they are running, as both of them capture IR radiation as a mean
to detect "hotness"; but is in the way this information is processed. The
input is the same, that's the output that is different.
The image displayed by your TID has been processed to highlight small
differences in temperature that would have been overlooked by the naked eye.
The practical use of this is in adverse meteorological conditions to IR
detection, like fog or rain, then your TID will give you better data than
if you were using IRgoggles (same range implied). This also means that your
detection range will be longer with TID.

Also, IIRC as always, the versatility of TID is higher, as it may perceive
a larger spectre than the usual IRgoggle.

Just my 2 cents ;-)


AlSeyMer
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:51:39 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shamanic Mask
In-Reply-To: <000201bdbf5d$42556b80$5e5211ac@********.mincom.oz.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 02:06 PM 8/4/98 +1000, you wrote:
>Erik Jameson writes:
>> Force limits the number of successes you can have. But unlike in SR2,
>> where you rolled dice equalling Force+Magic Pool+Foci, in SR3 you roll
>> Sorcery+Spell Pool+Foci. THAT'S why a high Sorcery is actually even more
>> important than it is today in SR2.
>
>So, you really need both to kick arse...

Yes. Magicians become even more Karma intensive, at least to my
point-of-view, because you are still going to want to Initiate (though
we'll have to wait for new rules on that one).

Splitting up other skills, like Firearms, will depower Street Sams a bit
too and make them more Karma intensive than they currently are. This is a
change I didn't get to play with but it's my understanding it made it's way
into the final version.

>OTH, casting a spell at someone
>with low willpower (thus giving you a pitiful target number) won't be
>anywhere near as devasting, because even a TN of 2 still won't give you more
>than Force successes. OTH again, though (call me a Motie), you get to keep
>back more dice for spell defense.

Yes. It goes with the general theme of depowering magicians.

>*scratch* Are they still keeping the caster's Sorcery attribute as the
>target number to resist? Or have you already revealed too much?

No, Force that the spell is cast at, plus the damage code. There's more on
this, and I probably could reveal it (since people are already leaving for
GenCon; my hardback contact left last week to visit family before the show)
but I'm not going to.

All I can say is that I really like the new magic rules (at least as I
understand them Mongoose), I think Steve K. did a brilliant job overall
fixing all sorts of glaring and nagging problems. The system is even more
streamlined, though it'll take some getting used to. The biggest problem I
see people having is that magicians are brought down a few power notches,
but I think it was for the best. I didn't like the removal of Spell Locks
at first, but in the grand scheme of things, it makes sense and I've come
to accept and like it.

*sigh*

It's not even 10am yet and I'm already tired, from all this nonsense on RN.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 12:59:43 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <pedersje@******.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU>
Organization: Rose-Hulman Insitute of Technology
Subject: Re: Going away! -Reply
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Lehlan Decker wrote:
> Ack....c is wonderful, but not with microsoft products. Give me
> unix and gcc anyday. SED! Now there is an evil word...repeat
> back......perl is good....perl is good...sed is bad. perl is good...
> perl is good...sed is bad. :) I have a feeling this is OT, and
> on the borderline area about OS's so.....

Oh, come on. I think that everyone can agree that Unix is good and nearly all
other OS's are evil:) Fun stuff. I don't actually have a Unix installed (not
enough room to do a decent install of Slackware:), nor do I have the knowledge
to make serious use of it (yet:), so I'm doing my shell scripts in Emacs via an
X-session on a SunOS box using SuperX running in Win95. And testing my cgi in
Communicator in Windoze. With near constant referencing to books. As for perl vs
sed... Dunno. I think perl is going to be a lot easier to do this mess in, so
I'll probably try some stuff with that tonight. But I rather like nawk (but not
awk -- and it doesn't seem to like me, either, so we're even:)

--
John Pederson otherwise known as Lyle Canthros, shapeshifter-mage
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes
convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe -- a
spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we
with our modest powers must feel humble."
--Albert Einstein
lobo1@****.com canthros1@***.com pedersje@******.rose-hulman.edu
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/4864 ICQ UIN 3190186
"I'm not fifty!" "SPOONMAN!!!" Number Two -- with a bullet!
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 19:59:49 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Mike's Course
In-Reply-To: <199808041346.HAA01425@******.carl.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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David Buehrer said on 7:46/4 Aug 98,...

> Ah. Okay, that's a good point that I hadn't thought of (once again I
> was assuming that the general public had as much common sense as I do
> :(

That's the wrong attitude :)

> I'll reserve my opinion until I see how SR3 is presented. That will
> make all the difference in the world, IMHO.

I think so too... I'm hoping it stays true to the original concept of
runners doing their thing for their own reasons, not because
they're out to improve the world.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Money, tickets, passports! Money, tickets, passports!
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 19:59:50 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Assault canon in RL
In-Reply-To: <AFFFCF221D65D111923800805FA7E86D501279@***********>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

bryan.covington@****.COM said on 10:07/4 Aug 98,...

> > I don't quite understand what you're getting at here.
> >
> Ever seen the barrel of a paintball gun? Kinda like
> that. I'll assume you haven't even if you have and try to explain.

Good, because I haven't seen paintball guns up close. I'd love to
play it someday, though.

> The breech of a recoilless rifle has 3 large holes in
> the back which release the backblast in one massive firestorm. I'm
> suggesting using lots of smaller holes to release the pressure without
> the flame-thrower effect.
> Rings of holes around the barrel. Probably angled in
> bore in one direction or another to disperse the pressure. So you get
> 100 little flashes instead of one monster one.

I think I understand -- the holes aren't all at the back, but along
the whole barrel, so the propellant bleeds from them as the round
passes each ring of holes. Right?

I can see some problems with this solution... First of all the fact
that the shooter can be injured by the propellant. That can be
avoided by careful design and good training, but it's a limiting
factor.

Also, the barrel would need to be strong to withstand the stresses
of the propellant; current recoilless rifles can have thin,
lightweight barrels because most of the propellant isn't going to
put stress on the barrel, but with your idea the closer you get to
the breech end of the gun, the stronger the barrel would have to
be, and thus it would weigh more than a traditional type of
recoilless weapon.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Money, tickets, passports! Money, tickets, passports!
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 19:59:50 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Another one going to NOMAIL
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Unlike a lot of other GenCon-goers, I will be setting NOMAIL now,
as I'll be leaving for my vacation early tomorrow morning, and I
don't want to get back after 3+ weeks to read several thousand
messages :) I guess I'll have to say "have fun without me, and
I'll see most of you in a few weeks again" now...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Money, tickets, passports! Money, tickets, passports!
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:04:00 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Posting advice for the coming flood
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>And another thing. In order to help facilitate the above, please make
>sure to maintain a relavent subject line. If you change the topic,
>change the subject line, or better yet, start a new thread.
>

Sort of like I just did here. Tim said it well, but its time for my
quarterly rant on this topic. This time, its even more personally
significant, since my new mailer can sort by subject, and I use this feature
to ignore inane threads with little new content, like the current IR/thermo
confusionfest.
I think I'll just write personal letters to folks who don't seem to have a
clue how to change a subject line from now on.

Mongoose
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:13:45 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <pedersje@******.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU>
Organization: Rose-Hulman Insitute of Technology
Subject: Re: Going away!
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Wyrmy wrote:
>
> > |Yippee. I'm going to be alone on the list with Spike for 6 days. Fun.
> > |<g>
> <snip spike stuff><G>
>
> Well I'll still be here.:^)
> Would be at GC,But cant afford the airfare and hotel :^(.Tell me if its
> any good.

Ha! Getting there I could have managed. My parents just told me no.
Aren't you like 15, though Wyrmy?

--
John Pederson otherwise known as Lyle Canthros, shapeshifter-mage
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes
convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe -- a
spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we
with our modest powers must feel humble."
--Albert Einstein
lobo1@****.com canthros1@***.com pedersje@******.rose-hulman.edu
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/4864 ICQ UIN 3190186
"I'm not fifty!" "SPOONMAN!!!" Number Two -- with a bullet!
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:14:21 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Shamanic Mask

>Sorry, but as much as I love magic, it needed it's power cut off at the
>knees. Steve and Mike have done a number of things that dramatically
drop
>the power of the friendly neighborhood magician.

Maybe I'm just doing something wrong in my game, then, but I've not seen
magic being *that* powerful. Like I said, I may be doing something
wrong. I've always played muscle myself,and I'm just now getting around
to GMing, so it's not inconceivable that I'm screwing up somewhere.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 14:20:49 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Why is it so bad? RE: ED/SR Connections
In-Reply-To: <199808041735.KAA18638@******.ba.best.com>

On 4 Aug 98, at 10:35, Max Rible wrote:

> At 03:06 8/4/98 -0500, David Goth wrote:
> >So, hopefully that will make my choice of 'subject' more clear now. Why
> >don't you like the 'idea' of this connection?
> ...
> >So, Why is it so bad?
>
> The connection between Shadowrun and Earthdawn can be very easily
> mishandled. Shadowrun is a cyberpunk game; Earthdawn is high fantasy.
> Bringing *too much* ED into SR undermines the game concept of SR.

Here, here.

> Part of the difference between high fantasy and cyberpunk is that
> in high fantasy, you have mythic forces that are very present:
> great good vs. great evil (Tolkien), human beings against great
> evil with no great good to back them up(Hodgell), human beings against
> things that are vastly more powerful and simply uncaring (Lovecraft).
>
> Cyberpunk, in contrast, is a game about shades of grey. You roleplay
> hardened criminals that any reasonable citizen would say should be locked
> up somewhere they won't do any harm to the populace. Of course, the
> government and the corporations that you fight against (often on the
> behalf of another one) aren't that nice, either. Moral ambiguity is the
> rule, with occasional exceptions.

And the immortal threads and horrors and shit just muck it up. I have
had bugs in my game. They are just as nasty and scary as aliens,
awakened critters, or whatever. Theyt don't have to be pre-cursors to
horrors, or whatever other drek. (And if anyone is curious, they were
alien in origin in my game. I was a big fan of the V series :) ).

> Earthdawn has two big evils: the alien evil of the Horrors, and the
> very human evil of the Theran empire, a bunch of slavers who want to
> rule the world. Either one is a force to be battled and rebelled
> against by right-thinking people. :-)

Typical high-fantasy, and sounds cool, if kept in perspective.

> If you bring the Horrors into Shadowrun, it *makes sense* for enemies to
> band together and stop them from encroaching on the world. There *is* a
> possible campaign that has the player characters running around trying to
> figure out how to stop Horrors and enlisting support from the
> megacorporations, culminating in a titanic battle where the Horrors get
> their asses handed to them on an orichalcum platter when they find out
> that humans do research a lot *faster* than they did eight thousand years
> ago, but it would wreck the usual Shadowrun continuity.

It would be Earthdawn with guns and tech. Peeyew. Where's the
cyberpunk?

> It doesn't help that the ED connection has been mishandled in the past. I
> *like* having immortal elves in Shadowrun, but they only have small
> territories for a good reason: they're players at the megacorporate
> level, but if one of them individually slotted off a megacorp it would
> need at least one megacorporate ally not to get gilched. They're another
> force in the world, not a major one, and they shouldn't be turning up
> under every rock.

I have never had IE's in my games. I bought Harlequin, but never got
to run it. I would have probably modified it a bit .

> Sargent and Gascoigne wrote some pretty bad novels involving the
> ED/SR connection, Nosferatu and Black Madonna, and Worlds Without End
> actually used immortal elves as main characters and implied a
> Horror-centric theme coming into the SR world in the near future.
> Fortunately, the Dragon Heart trilogy put nails in the coffin of *that*
> particular theme. (While still allowing for the possibility that some
> Horrors slipped through and can be around in sufficient supply to be in
> roles as occasional opponents... but you're going to have to wade through
> a lot of corrupted corporate employees to get at them, 'cos any Horrors
> that made it through aren't going to be stupid...)

And all I can say is yeah! Thanks, Jak Koke and FASA.

> I, personally, *like* the SR/ED connection. It needs to be handled in a
> subtle fashion, as a recurring theme in a campaign rather than *the* theme
> of a campaign; I'm trying to do so in mine.

Well, I don't like it, and I am not shy about it. I would never fault
anyone that wants to be creative and tie the two together. Hell, I've
linked different games before. But I do not want FASA to do it as an
official line, because as Max has shone here, the mix does dilute
from the strengths of the two systems, and I am glad that the company
is moving away from that.

Shadowrun is focusing on its strengths now, and I think the game is
better for it.

--

=================================================================
- Tim Kerby - drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
=================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 11:14:57 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Daryl Williams <enwill@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Assault canon in RL
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

---Gurth <gurth@******.NL> wrote:
> I think I understand -- the holes aren't all at the back, but along
> the whole barrel, so the propellant bleeds from them as the round
> passes each ring of holes. Right?

Thats right.. just like the .50cal HMG that they used back in
WWII on up to heh..present day, the barrel is dotted with exhaust
ports. You should know what I am talking about, if you have ever seen
any war movies.

>
> I can see some problems with this solution... First of all the fact
> that the shooter can be injured by the propellant. That can be
> avoided by careful design and good training, but it's a limiting
> factor.

That isn't too hard of a fix..you just need to angle the holes
forward towards the end of the barrel so that all the propellant is
expelled forward away from the shooter. The biggest problem would be
in the shooter getting flash blinded..so some protective gear would be
nessaccery.

> Also, the barrel would need to be strong to withstand the stresses
> of the propellant; current recoilless rifles can have thin,
> lightweight barrels because most of the propellant isn't going to
> put stress on the barrel, but with your idea the closer you get to
> the breech end of the gun, the stronger the barrel would have to
> be, and thus it would weigh more than a traditional type of
> recoilless weapon.

To take care of this, you balance to exhaust ports only in the
middle of the barrel..leaving a couple inchs at both ends of the
barrel solid, so that you can cut down on the weight of it, keeping it
down to a managable weight.

Mr. Smith

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 14:23:20 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: "Droopy ." <mmanhardt@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
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From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR

> Near IR is what Low-Light imaging works on. In many low light
> situations, there is enough Near IR radiation from moonlight,
> starlight, or distant artificial lighting, to provide enough
> illumination to see by. When there isn't enough Near IR in the
> environment, specialized lighting, designed to emit light in the Near
> IR part of the spectrum and no light in the Visible part of the
> spectrum, can be used.

These low light systems also pull in UV radiation, though not to the
same degree.

> Heat IR behaves in a less light-like fashion, and can heat objects
> noticeably, they are both parts of the electromagnetic spectrum, and
> not as you stated "totally different." In fact, they are much the same
> on several fundemental levels.

But they are not the same for the purposes of this discussion. Any
more than a Yugo is the same as an 18-wheeler in a discussion
about moving an elephant. (forgive me for not thinking of something
better, but I'm at work and pretty burned out right now)


--Droopy
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Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 14:23:20 -0400
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From: "Droopy ." <mmanhardt@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
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From: Oliver McDonald <oliver@*********.com>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR

> Or you can use the same goggles in passive mode to see the heat that is part of the
> normal background. Let me give you an example, take a bar of steel, heat it. As it
gets

Uh...no you can't. Sure, you could see something heated to the
point that it radiates IR light, but you can not use night vision
goggles to see heat.

Oh, and yer reply to is overriding the list.


--Droopy
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Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 14:23:20 -0400
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From: "Droopy ." <mmanhardt@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
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From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR

> IR is a VERY, VERY wide area in the electromagnetic spectrum.
> The shortest IR frequencies are produced as radiated heat, and are detected
> by passive infra-red.

> So Active and passive IR are different, yes, but Thermo is still IR.

Thermo IS IR, but the methods of 'seeing' them are completely
different. Also, do not confuse radiated heat with IR light. They are
considered to be two different things.


--Droopy
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Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 14:23:20 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: "Droopy ." <mmanhardt@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
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From: Pete Wilson <piatro@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR

> On a related note, since IR "light" can heat up things wouldn't the beam of
> light be more visible to other IR viewers. Handheld IR flashlights
> probably wouldn't be strong enough to have much of a visible affect, but
> vehicle mounted or fixed IR sources could be quite obvious.

The beam would be clearly visible to anyone who can see IR light,
yes. It would prolly be visible to thermographic systems as well
since it would produce heat (just like a normal lightbulb.)

The most important thing to remember here is that there is a clear
difference between seeing IR light and thermographics.

Thermographic vision is NOT compatable with an IR spotlight. 1) it
would be the hottest source, effectively blinding the veiwer. 2)
thermographics DO NOT see reflected light at all.


--Droopy
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Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:42:02 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: John Dukes <dukes@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Assault canon in RL
In-Reply-To: <19980804181457.16618.rocketmail@******.yahoomail.com>
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> To take care of this, you balance to exhaust ports only in the
>middle of the barrel..leaving a couple inchs at both ends of the
>barrel solid, so that you can cut down on the weight of it, keeping it
>down to a managable weight.

Ever seen a recoiless rifle? They dont use them anymore. Not as strong as a
rocket. Not as practical as an assault rifle.

That and WWI era anti-tank rifles.

-Teeg
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Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 14:46:37 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: "Droopy ." <mmanhardt@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
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From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET


> As has been said before, IR and "heat" are basicaly the same thing. Passive
IR
> (like trolls get) is just sensing ambient heat from the surrounding area.
> Active IR uses a lamp which projects Infrared radiation, allowing visibility.
> So a troll may be able to get a system like eyelight or even an infrared lamp
> to allow sight when there is no ambient heat.

You are partly right. Thermographic vision 'sees' radiated heat.
Active IR systems see reflected light. They are not in any way
similar in how they work.


--Droopy
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 14:46:37 -0400
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From: "Droopy ." <mmanhardt@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Assault canon in RL
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From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: Assault canon in RL

> > > You could create a porting system to replicate a
> > > recoilless rifle concept. If you had lots of small holes (rather
> > than
> > > the 3 large holes on the rear of most recoilless rifles). This would
> > > make it imperative to hold it properly when firing.
> >
> > I don't quite understand what you're getting at here.
> >
> Ever seen the barrel of a paintball gun? Kinda like
> that. I'll assume you haven't even if you have and try to explain.
> The breech of a recoilless rifle has 3 large holes in
> the back which release the backblast in one massive firestorm. I'm
> suggesting using lots of smaller holes to release the pressure without
> the flame-thrower effect.
> Rings of holes around the barrel. Probably angled in
> bore in one direction or another to disperse the pressure. So you get
> 100 little flashes instead of one monster one.

Having fired recoiless rifles, I just have one question. Where do
you expect the firer to be??? There's a reason that the back end of
the RR is open (only 3 holes cause you need a firing pin back
there.) And theres a reason why you don't stand behind one when
it fires.


--Droopy
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 14:46:37 -0400
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From: "Droopy ." <mmanhardt@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
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From: Oliver McDonald <oliver@*********.com>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR

> Uh, Ben, IR light is what is seen by people/cameras that see heat. One and the same
> thing.
> IR standing for InfraRed.

IR light is not heat. Heat is IR. Just like Yellow is visible light, but
visible light is not yellow.


--Droopy
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 14:47:59 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: Assault canon in RL
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> > I think I understand -- the holes aren't all at the back, but along
> > the whole barrel, so the propellant bleeds from them as the round
> > passes each ring of holes. Right?
>
> Thats right.. just like the .50cal HMG that they used back in
> WWII on up to heh..present day, the barrel is dotted with exhaust
> ports. You should know what I am talking about, if you have ever seen
> any war movies.
>
Dude, thats a cooling shroud. The barrel is solid.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 14:43:35 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Assault canon in RL
In-Reply-To: <AFFFCF221D65D111923800805FA7E86D501279@***********>
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At 10:07 AM 8/4/98 -0400, you wrote:

> Ever seen the barrel of a paintball gun? Kinda like
>that. I'll assume you haven't even if you have and try to explain.
> The breech of a recoilless rifle has 3 large holes in
>the back which release the backblast in one massive firestorm. I'm
>suggesting using lots of smaller holes to release the pressure without
>the flame-thrower effect.
> Rings of holes around the barrel. Probably angled in
>bore in one direction or another to disperse the pressure. So you get
>100 little flashes instead of one monster one.

Careful about using paintball barrels as analogies to real firearms, of any
sort. The fact that a non-explosive gas propellant is used to fire a
liquid/gelatinous sphere throws most firearms ballistics right out the
window. Doesn't throw physics out the window, obviously, but the fact
you're projectile *isn't* solid and is almost guaranteed to deform in
flight complicates matters a whole bunch.

And there's a fair amount of controversy as to how much porting and what
style is effective. One company (All American actually) claims that by
doing spiral porting it creates a rifling affect that increases accuracy;
may be true, but it also allows gas to escape the barrel early, decreasing
velocity and therefor range. Some go for more porting, some go for
minimal, straight porting. About the only sure thing you can say about
porting is that it quiets the gun's report down. Muzzle brakes don't do a
damn but look cool. You also have to deal with what the barrel is made of
(aluminum, stainless steel, carbon fiber) and how it's finished
(microhoned, polished, ceramic) AND match your paint to your barrel.
Supposedly the caliber is .68, but no paintball or barrel matches that
perfectly, so you end up with certain paintballs "fitting" or
"matching"
certain barrels better. And to top it all off, you've got the length of
the barrel to contend with; most folks say that 12" to 14" is ideal, but 8"
and as long as 18" barrels exist and have their proponents. As a point of
interest, I use a DYE 12" stainless steel barrel with straight porting.

I don't know enough about ballistics and firearms to say yea or nay
regarding your concept of a "ported" recoiless rifle, though the general
idea strikes me as having potential; it could possibly reduce general
recoil and flash. It seems to have some concepts in common more with gas
ported recoil compensation than anything else. I would just be very
careful regarding linking paintball ballistics with firearms ballistics.

Erik J.



http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 14:52:20 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: Assault canon in RL
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> > > I don't quite understand what you're getting at here.
> > >
> > Ever seen the barrel of a paintball gun? Kinda like
> > that. I'll assume you haven't even if you have and try to explain.
>
> Good, because I haven't seen paintball guns up close. I'd love to
> play it someday, though.
>
Its a *&$#ing blast!!

> > The breech of a recoilless rifle has 3 large holes
> in
> > the back which release the backblast in one massive firestorm. I'm
> > suggesting using lots of smaller holes to release the pressure
> without
> > the flame-thrower effect.
> > Rings of holes around the barrel. Probably angled in
> > bore in one direction or another to disperse the pressure. So you
> get
> > 100 little flashes instead of one monster one.
>
> I think I understand -- the holes aren't all at the back, but along
> the whole barrel, so the propellant bleeds from them as the round
> passes each ring of holes. Right?
>
Well maybe. I'm kinda looking to you with a
collaborative intent. I was picturing most of them in the back but more
further up the barrel.

> I can see some problems with this solution... First of all the fact
> that the shooter can be injured by the propellant. That can be
> avoided by careful design and good training, but it's a limiting
> factor.
>
I was also thinking of the gun being held by essentially
the center of the weapon with the actual firing chamber behind the user.
(Think 40k Terminator autocannon if that helps.)

> Also, the barrel would need to be strong to withstand the stresses
> of the propellant; current recoilless rifles can have thin,
> lightweight barrels because most of the propellant isn't going to
> put stress on the barrel, but with your idea the closer you get to
> the breech end of the gun, the stronger the barrel would have to
> be, and thus it would weigh more than a traditional type of
> recoilless weapon.
>
True but it's firing smaller shells. In this case we may
have to hope or assume that there are stronger/lighter materials in
2060.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 14:56:36 -0400
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From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: Assault canon in RL
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<snip massive paintball comments>

> I don't know enough about ballistics and firearms to say yea or nay
> regarding your concept of a "ported" recoiless rifle, though the
> general
> idea strikes me as having potential; it could possibly reduce general
> recoil and flash. It seems to have some concepts in common more with
> gas
> ported recoil compensation than anything else. I would just be very
> careful regarding linking paintball ballistics with firearms
> ballistics.
>
Um, I wasn't.

I was using the porting of the paintball barrels as an
example of the type of holes I was talking about. I wasn't saying that
they would react in the same way or that paintball had anything even
remotely in common with firearms at all.
I was just saying that paintball gun barrels have holes
in them SIMILAR to the ones I was describing. That's it.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 14:49:42 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Yet More Payment Receipts
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Arno Lehman, and John Pederson, though admittedly, this last one isn't for the
shirt, that was a while ago. This was for something else.... (wink)

Hey John, I have an idea. Isn't Terre Haute on the Wabash River? I could get
an inflatable ducky or three, seal up the entire package, and send 'em all
downstream. All you'd have to do is go down and watch the river really
closely..

<EWG>

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 14:07:36 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Bookworm <Thomas.M.Price@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Assault canon in RL
In-Reply-To: <19980804181457.16618.rocketmail@******.yahoomail.com>
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On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Daryl Williams wrote:

> That isn't too hard of a fix..you just need to angle the holes
> forward towards the end of the barrel so that all the propellant is
> expelled forward away from the shooter. The biggest problem would be
> in the shooter getting flash blinded..so some protective gear would be
> nessaccery.

Well if you have exaust ports sending the propellant gasses FORWARD to
miss the shooter you will just end up with a gun with heavier recoil than
one with no ports at all. The reason a RR has those ports at the rear is
to GET that jet of gas shooting out the back. The momentum of the gas jet
ballences that of the projectil going out the other end. If they are both
aimed forward you get X+X=2X not X-X=0.

Thomas Price
aka The Bookworm
thomas.m.price@*******.edu
tmprice@***********.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:05:24 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Shamanic Mask
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In a message dated 8/4/1998 12:50:48 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
erikj@****.COM writes:

>
> I have not only considered all that you asked, but I've played the rules in
> those situations. Can you say the same? I thought not. I like these
> changes and I'll keep them.
>
I'll answer it this way.

Think again, we have, and continue to tinker and test out things. Actually,
we did testings like this almost two years ago, so I can say from a historical
gaming concept even for us.

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:07:49 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: RPG deaths [Slightly OT]
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In a message dated 98-08-04 08:12:31 EDT, you write:

> (Heck...I'm stuck in the
> middle of the bible belt, USA, so ye can just imagine the hell I get for
> playing such "evil games" ;-)

Quite Easily.

Nexx, who moves between Texas to Kansas
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 14:57:24 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Going away!
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In a message dated 8/4/1998 11:34:04 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
elfman@******.COM writes:

> > |Yippee. I'm going to be alone on the list with Spike for 6 days. Fun.
> > |<g>
> <snip spike stuff><G>
>
> Well I'll still be here.:^)
> Would be at GC,But cant afford the airfare and hotel :^(.Tell me if its
> any good.

Wyrmy, if I thought I could help you out, I'd pick you up on my up to
Milwaukee. The room and board is cheap for a few of us ($75 for 4 nights in
my case) and the ticket would be $72 for a 4 day pass (I preregged and got it
cheaper).

Think -NEXT YEAR- Wyrmy, think hard...

-K
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:11:38 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Craig J Wilhelm Jr <craigjwjr@*********.NET>
Organization: Afterlife Incorperated
Subject: Re: kids in the '90s was BC{OT}
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BigDaddy wrote:
> ya know I'm sorry to say but IMO this is a sad state to have. Our kids
> are being numbed to violence all around them. 1/2 the stuff on TV
> involves destruction in 1 way or the other, the other 1/2 involves
> saying its ok. Totally disturbing and something should be done. I can't
> wait to have my kids. I will be the hardest asshole father imaginable.
> My father turned my ass red with a wooden spoon when i was bad, I'm
> gonna do it to my kids, It'll teach em real discipline not this "it's ok
> your just angry at the world, just don't do it again" crap. Give the kid
> a spanking and he'll never do it again!

Okay, let me get this straight...
You complain that kids are becomming numbed to violence, then you go
ahead and say that you'll put the smack-down on your kids when their
bad. Right?
I just don't get it...
--
Craig "Knee Deep in the Blood of Swine" Wilhelm
Confuscious Say,
"Man who have hand in pocket not always jiggle change..."
UIN: 1864690
-------------BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
v3.12
GAT/$ d- s+:+ a- C+++ U--- P+ L- E-- W++ N++
o K- w+ O> !M-- !V PS+ PE Y+ PGP++ t--- 5+++
X-- R++ tv b++ DI-- D+(Q2++) G++ e++ h* r y++**
--------------END GEEK CODE BLOCK--------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:10:27 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

> IR light is not heat. Heat is IR. Just like Yellow is visible light,
> but
> visible light is not yellow.
>
Here is my understanding of how all this works. Please
poke holes as needed (but document your holes).

Passive IR (Thermographic):
All objects have heat. Heat causes these objects to
radiate in the infrared range of the EM spectrum. By creating a very
precise system to determine the wavelength and amplitude of these IR
wave we can determine, with an amazing degree of accuracy, how hot
things are. Since visible light is not represented in this scale
darkness is irrelevant. The only "dark" is cold, and even then nothing
is the same temperature (and thus emitting appropriate amounts of IR)
and so we can "see" in the dark (dark = the lack of visible light).

Active IR:
With a less sensitive recieving device you can use a
beam of IR emissions which will reflect off of the objects in the area
creating a flashlight effect. The reciever does not pick up the subtle
differences in natural IR radiation but instead looks only for a
specific wavelength and amplitude (or range thereof) to be reflected
back. Since the reciever is much less sensitive this system is much
cheaper than passive IR. However to a passive IR system the Active IR
lighting system will show up like a beacon, identical to a visible light
on a dark night.

Questions? Comments? Flames?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:08:09 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Assault canon in RL
In-Reply-To: <199808041758.TAA06250@*****.xs4all.nl>
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At 07:59 PM 8/4/98 +0100, you wrote:
>bryan.covington@****.COM said on 10:07/4 Aug 98,...
>
>> > I don't quite understand what you're getting at here.
>> >
>> Ever seen the barrel of a paintball gun? Kinda like
>> that. I'll assume you haven't even if you have and try to explain.
>
>Good, because I haven't seen paintball guns up close. I'd love to
>play it someday, though.

You know Gurth, there are actually quite a few paintball fields in England
and in Europe. Some of the European teams are really quite good, and the
best paintball magazine available is actually a British pub, called
Paintball Games International. They list a lot of UK fields. And every
year a pretty major (for the Europeans anyway) tournament is held in
France, right about this time.

If you want to play, you should be able to do so, right in your own side of
the pond. As Bryan said, it's a blast, an insane adrenalin rush.
Considering your interest in things military, you really oughta go for it
sometime.

And of course, if you ever make it to LA, I'll hook you up.

Erik J.



http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:08:28 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shamanic Mask
In-Reply-To: <013801bdbfd3$b562d600$cda610cf@********.arn.net>
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At 01:14 PM 8/4/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>Sorry, but as much as I love magic, it needed it's power cut off at the
>>knees. Steve and Mike have done a number of things that dramatically
>drop
>>the power of the friendly neighborhood magician.
>
>Maybe I'm just doing something wrong in my game, then, but I've not seen
>magic being *that* powerful. Like I said, I may be doing something
>wrong. I've always played muscle myself,and I'm just now getting around
>to GMing, so it's not inconceivable that I'm screwing up somewhere.

Not necessarily. But if you look at the power curve, magicians, if they
live long enough, can be insanely powerful when they get their
quickened/locked increased reflexes and combat sense and armor and 15+ dice
to throw per spell and so on. With street sams, you kinda eventually
plateau out, since you can only cram so much cyberware in.

If you run a low-magic game normally (which it sounds like you may) then
it's not likely to be a big deal. But in other games, especially
high-magic games, the amount of power a magician can wield gets obscene and
far out of wack with what a *shadowrunner* should be able to do, if we stay
true to a more cyberpunkish type of game of Shadowrun.

I like it, I don't expect everyone else to, and I'm sure I'll be suprised
at what ended up as the final version, but if it's close to what I saw,
I'll still like it.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:14:51 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Here is my understanding of how all this works. Please
poke holes as needed (but document your holes).

Passive IR (Thermographic):
All objects have heat. Heat causes these objects to
radiate in the infrared range of the EM spectrum. By creating a very
precise system to determine the wavelength and amplitude of these IR
wave we can determine, with an amazing degree of accuracy, how hot
things are. Since visible light is not represented in this scale
darkness is irrelevant. The only "dark" is cold, and even then nothing
is the same temperature (and thus emitting appropriate amounts of IR)
and so we can "see" in the dark (dark = the lack of visible light).

Active IR:
With a less sensitive receiving device you can use a
beam of IR emissions which will reflect off of the objects in the area
creating a flashlight effect. The receiver does not pick up the subtle
differences in natural IR radiation but instead looks only for a
specific wavelength and amplitude (or range thereof) to be reflected
back. Since the receiver is much less sensitive this system is much
cheaper than passive IR. However to a passive IR system the Active IR
lighting system will show up like a beacon, identical to a visible light
on a dark night.

Questions? Comments? Flames?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 14:16:57 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Bookworm <Thomas.M.Price@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: RPG deaths
In-Reply-To: <199808041648.MAA23912@*****.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Paul Gettle wrote:
> Actually, there are very few documented cases of death by D&D,
> acording to my sources. In fact, there have been studies that indicate
> that Role-Players are statistically less likely to commit suicide.

Well i dont have my sources with me here at work but i know there have
been a couple of mental and socialogical studies done on gamers. I had
atleast 4 articles from major scientific journals when i did a speech on
RPGs last spring. The funny result out of one was that across the board
the Gamers scored much more sane on average than the controll group of
psycology students. I always like it when the patient is healthier than
their doctor:). Every researcher admitted that they had gone in expecting
the claims of the media (B.A.D.D.) to be the results and having the claims
disproven in every case. I think i got a good list of articles off the
GAMA web site though im not possitive.

Thomas Price
aka The Bookworm
thomas.m.price@*******.edu
tmprice@***********.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:17:26 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: kids in the '90s was BC{OT}
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

> Okay, let me get this straight...
> You complain that kids are becomming numbed to violence, then
> you go
> ahead and say that you'll put the smack-down on your kids when their
> bad. Right?
> I just don't get it...
>
Yeah man! They're numb see, so yah gotta beat 'em harder
for them to feel it! ;)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:08:34 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
In-Reply-To: <199808041846.OAA03211@****.usaor.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> > As has been said before, IR and "heat" are basicaly the same
> thing. Passive IR
> > (like trolls get) is just sensing ambient heat from the
> surrounding area.
> > Active IR uses a lamp which projects Infrared radiation,
> allowing visibility.
> > So a troll may be able to get a system like eyelight or even an
> infrared lamp
> > to allow sight when there is no ambient heat.
>
> You are partly right. Thermographic vision 'sees' radiated heat.
> Active IR systems see reflected light. They are not in any way
> similar in how they work.
>
>
> --Droopy
>

Then how is it that the US Thermo goggles can be used to read maps with the
aid of a thermo flashlight?

Ian Silvercat claims the above in the name of himself!
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:19:12 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: RPG deaths
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-04 08:47:43 EDT, you write:

> |ok we all know that people died as a resault of taking D&D too far
>
> Do we? I though most of us (those with sense) knew that was a total and
> utter load of crap produced by that wierd american woman who formed that
> "B.A.D" group, or whatever it's called.

Ok, I've done like 10 reports on this (rewriting my way through the uni, I
am), so lets see what I can dredge up out of my memory. All of this is AFAIK,
IIRC, with a bit of IMO thrown in.

B.A.D.D. (Bothered About Dungeons and Dragons... no, I'm not joking) was
started by a woman who's son committed suicide and happened to play (A?)D&D.
Of course, the fact that he was a closet homosexual and borderline
schizophrenic raised in a _conservative_ Christian home (add whatever accents
you like to that... Americans take conservative to an extreme that the Muslim
world can only hope to match) had nothing at all to do with his suicide.
Couldn't, because it would then be the fault of his parents, not that evil
game AD&D.

Well, this lady started getting weird about games, and basically started
making up figures to back up her claims that D&D was evil. There are some
better coverages of this on the Web... try doing a Yahoo Search for RPG's and
Satanism... they've got an entire category on it (which includes on hilarious
Finnish page that the guy is either a brilliant satirist or one of the most
screwed up people outside the US of A), and has some good info on it.

Nexx
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:21:24 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Going away!
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 98-08-04 09:29:37 EDT, you write:

> > What? You mean the "WHERE IS EVERYONE?" and "I'M LONELY"
posts?
>
> Yippee. I'm going to be alone on the list with Spike for 6 days. Fun.

Not quite alone. Some of us wrecked our father's car and spent so much money
fixing his that we didn't have enough to buy our own and are therefore stuck
at home.

Nexx, who isn't bitter... really
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:24:42 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: kids in the '90s was BC{OT}
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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Craig J Wilhelm Jr wrote:
>BigDaddy wrote:
>> ya know I'm sorry to say but IMO this is a sad state to have. Our kids
>> are being numbed to violence all around them. 1/2 the stuff on TV
[snip]
>> My father turned my ass red with a wooden spoon when i was bad, I'm
>> gonna do it to my kids, It'll teach em real discipline not this "it's ok
>> your just angry at the world, just don't do it again" crap. Give the kid
>> a spanking and he'll never do it again!
>
> Okay, let me get this straight...
> You complain that kids are becomming numbed to violence, then you go
>ahead and say that you'll put the smack-down on your kids when their
>bad. Right?
> I just don't get it...

Okay, try it this way - would you consider children more numb to
violence today than 100 years ago? 50 years ago? Now compare the
use of corporal punishment during those time periods. When my parents
(let alone grandparents) went to school, there were still *teachers*
physically punishing students. Nowadays, they'd be assigned detention,
sent to the principal etc. The less numb to violence you are, the more
it will negatively affect you, the more you are likely to change your
behaviours to avoid it.

Basically, kids these days aren't being taught that their actions can
have negative consequences. Sure, they're *told* it, but they don't
really believe it. So they go around and do stuff that they know they
shouldn't to test the boundaries of what'll happen to them.

How this projects into 2059, I dunno...

James Ojaste
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:26:09 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: RPG deaths
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 98-08-04 10:09:54 EDT, you write:

> > Was. She (Patricia Pulling) died in 1997.
>
> I was going to say something, but....
>
> Speak well of the dead, Tim, speak well of the dead....

Why? She rarely spoke well of the living.

Nexx
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:25:59 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

> Then how is it that the US Thermo goggles can be used to read maps
> with the
> aid of a thermo flashlight?
>
Because "thermo" goggles will work with an active IR
source but active IR goggles will not give you a heat sensitive look at
the world (they aren't sensitive enough).
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:27:08 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: Going away!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

> > > What? You mean the "WHERE IS EVERYONE?" and "I'M
LONELY" posts?
> >
> > Yippee. I'm going to be alone on the list with Spike for 6 days.
> Fun.
>
> Not quite alone. Some of us wrecked our father's car and spent so
> much money
> fixing his that we didn't have enough to buy our own and are therefore
> stuck
> at home.
>
Hey, I follow this from work. I'll be here.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:29:42 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Black Cauldron
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 98-08-04 10:38:29 EDT, you write:

> No, but as I happen to have been baptized and am
> Christian, and don't consider myself retarded, you are treading on thin
> ice. I really don't take kindly to people bashing my entire faith just
> because a few people decide that anyone that doesn't agree with them is
> going to a hell.

The way I read it, Bryan, is as talking about the Bible-bashers, not
Christians in general. Perhaps that was just me... but I don't think it was.

Nexx
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:31:10 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Involvements (Public Stage)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

This precursor warning is mostly for the Admins. IF anyone else wants to read
beyond it, I will merely say (to paraphrase (as I removed the email) another
who I will not name this time), "it's time he was brought down a step as the
list allows this to continue").

Buffer Space (this ain't a spoiler)
































In a message dated 8/4/1998 12:50:48 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
erikj@****.COM writes:

> And don't dare, by bringing others into this, try and make this anything
> like and me vs. them or otherwise divide the list. This is between you and
> I, Keith. Don't involve others.
>
> Erik J.
>
I am ending the conversation on the list in this manner to this one statement.

I didn't push the button by involving others. You made the connections
between Mike, I and Jon for that matter, so very long ago. You made the
connections with Mike and I, and Rob, and "da'Minotaur" for that matter a long
time ago. You made the assumptions based on the limiting of the knowledge,
you say as much in your own reply here (yes, I snipped it). I stated other
names, because I am pointing out the "finger directions" were lain out long
before I did them.

Just once Erik, once ever for all I care, reconsider that you may be
incomplete, not even incorrect, in your assumptions about us. You don't need
to consider that the balance of power is effectual. The laughing joke I have
is the "Binder" is the one magician who is the -least- of the power, I just
play him the smartest (IMO). His spell forces are the more balanced (most are
not higher than a 5-6 at the most, with only two at 8). It is from this
recent resurge of gaming with the "proposed" SR3 rules that I am drawing
experience.

Magic did NOT need capped at the knees, the people running it did. I am not
ever going to say that people have to relate with it better, that wouldn't
work, as even those people that claim to have studied -anything- related to
the Paranormal could not to anyone's known knowledge claim to have tossed a
physically manifesting magical formulae in action.

The balance has always been ultimately in the hands of the GM and the Players
in their gaming/adventure interaction. FASA's rules are rules and guidelines.
That is how they have been, that is how they will remain. Their system of
magic, at least before the upcoming SR3, was usable and flexible enough that
you could do a lot with it, and still not rival the other major game systems
(I have yet to see a spell in SR, that IMO would rival a 6th or 7th level
Wizard/Magic User spell from AD&D). And anything that does is either a House
Rule (and yes, we do have a few) or Ritual Magic (to which the clarifications
merely need put forward).

Erik, this "between you and I" thing is going to happen because it was allowed
to happen so long ago in a place that I will never go back to. And I'm not
the only one who won't, nor will I stop anyone else from doing joining. You
stated the "well I know more, this is how it should happen" way back then, and
you continue to do so. You claimed more knowledge than I or anyone else on a
number of matters that are pure game speculation, and even I admit to such. I
admitted my wrong doing, and backed out so as to allow the situation to
diminish appropriately. But you carry the tempermentality of it as much as I
can.

You are someone that I -KNOW- is not stupid. You are someone that -KNOW- is
not ignorant. BUT, you are stubborn, and you are pigheaded, so be it. I can,
and do, accept that fact. You like to be right as much as the next guy. It's
just that in this one place, none of us can ever be "completely right",
because it's not a truly tactile place to put a fact with.

You don't know the loopholes we've found, and I doubt we know all of the one's
you have found yourself. You don't know the distances we've walked in this
game, and we can't know the distances you have done so. I do know that I have
catalogued almost 3,000 hours of SR games alone that involved "Binder" is some
manner or shape. Yes, that is a lot. It may or may not be more than anyone
else. And he's NOT the only character I've ever had in SR. Yes, I did, and
some would say still, do play heavily. I like to play, as much as the next
gaming "fanatic" might. I don't play lots of other games anymore, because I
also, like you, have to make a living of some kind, for myself.

You are a strong-personality individual, one that in all honesty I would
greatly enjoying meeting in person. You have determination and self-worth,
those are incredible qualities to have as an individual.

But they are strong enough to overshadow your output placed forward. They so
heavily color your postings, that you consistently "speak" in a manner that is
belittling of people. I am not the only reader noticing this, and I truly do
believe that you realize this yourself. You have mentioned such in your
personal postings to me.

Gods, how can I say this. I do NOT hate you or your ideas. So many of them
are so really good that I would find it impossible to hate you actually. But,
and I am sure you could possiblly agree with me, you can be, and it is so much
a part of your second nature, that you must "argue" points that you firmly
believe are correct, without understanding that they may be correct in your
situation, that they are NOT correct in a situation other than your own.

This "Camo" topic is but one example, and I am certain there will be more
examples in the future to come.

Erik, last night I was angry, ask Nexx, Pantherr, Dvixen or anyone else that I
spoke directly (as directly as IRC or IM can get anyway) with. But that anger
passed, and I can look past it now and will continue to do so. I don't even
need a way to physically vent my frustrations. I just need the time itself.
We all do what we must.

In the future, I request, that you consider MUCH more so than you do now, how
you word things and how you are going to refer or confer a reputation upon,
anyone's material you are going to post towards. Yes, I do see you as
annoying quite often, but I am not everyone, and I know that there are people
on this list and others, that find your opinions "of a kindred spirit" so to
speak. I promised Dvixen and Adam directly that I would do my damndest to
behave. I will uphold that promise. If I can't, then I will personally hand
over "the Red Button" to Dvixen, and wire it straight to me alone.

EOD
=K
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:45:42 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: [OT] Black Cauldron
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

> > No, but as I happen to have been baptized and am
> > Christian, and don't consider myself retarded, you are treading on
> thin
> > ice. I really don't take kindly to people bashing my entire faith
> just
> > because a few people decide that anyone that doesn't agree with
> them is
> > going to a hell.
>
> The way I read it, Bryan, is as talking about the Bible-bashers, not
> Christians in general. Perhaps that was just me... but I don't think
> it was.
>
I believe this topic was killed (rightfully so) by
Admin. I have discussed it off list with the parties involved and all is
settled (if not, its over at least as I am not speaking any more of it).

Lets let it lie Nexx.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:50:01 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
In-Reply-To: <AFFFCF221D65D111923800805FA7E86D501291@***********>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>
> > Then how is it that the US Thermo goggles can be used to read maps
> > with the
> > aid of a thermo flashlight?
> >
> Because "thermo" goggles will work with an active IR
> source but active IR goggles will not give you a heat sensitive look at
> the world (they aren't sensitive enough).

I'm not saying that thermo can't use active IR sources for illumination. I'm
saying that it can. Someone *else* was saying that it couldn't and I was
disputing him. Yes, pointing an active IR source at someone using
thermographic vision will blind them. So will pointing a flashlight at me.
Quick experiment: Put a piece of paper under an incandescent bulb. The paper
heats up. Why wouldn't this heating show up to Thermo? (AFAIK, the reason US
military maps can be read under IR is that the inks have differing
absorption/retention levels).

Ian Silvercat claims the above in the name of himself!
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
That which does not exist has never been named - Mirumoto Nohito
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 16:04:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Frank Pelletier (Trinity)" <jeanpell@****.QC.CA>
Subject: Re: Involvements (Public Stage)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I sincerely think some people take very seriously what is, after all, a
game. Conflicts can and will arise between people, but venting them in
public is not the way to go. As we say on IRC when the same thing
happens..."Take it to private"...

Then again, I hope DV or Adam will say the same thing to both participants.

Trinity
--------------------------------------------------------------
Frank Pelletier
Trinity@********.com, jeanpell@****.qc.ca
This message was brought to you by Cypress Hill - "Temples of Boom"

"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind" - M. Gandhi
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 12:57:04 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jak Koke <jak@****.ORG>
Subject: Comicon info
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I've finally got my schedule for the San Diego Comicon which I'm posting for
those of you who are interested. If anyone would like to meet with me after
one of the two panels below, I'd be happy to discuss SR, novel writing or
whatever.

Thurs 8/13 12noon Rm16B Marketing your story
Fri 8/14 12noon Rm16B Writing for SF

If you're going to be at the convention and can't come to either of the
above events, feel free to email me if you'd still like to get together.

I will not be making it to Gencon this year, unfortunately. I'd like to
have been able to.

Stay sharp,

--Jak

Jak Koke La Jolla, CA
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.koke.org/jak/
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 16:07:34 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

> > > Then how is it that the US Thermo goggles can be used to read maps
> > > with the
> > > aid of a thermo flashlight?
> > >
> > Because "thermo" goggles will work with an active IR
> > source but active IR goggles will not give you a heat sensitive look
> at
> > the world (they aren't sensitive enough).
>
> I'm not saying that thermo can't use active IR sources for
> illumination. I'm
> saying that it can. Someone *else* was saying that it couldn't and I
> was
> disputing him. Yes, pointing an active IR source at someone using
> thermographic vision will blind them. So will pointing a flashlight at
> me.
>
Great! We agree!

> Quick experiment: Put a piece of paper under an incandescent bulb. The
> paper
> heats up. Why wouldn't this heating show up to Thermo? (AFAIK, the
> reason US
> military maps can be read under IR is that the inks have differing
> absorption/retention levels).
>
This heating WOULD be visible. Why wouldn't it?
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 16:18:46 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Mike's Course
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 07:46 AM 8/4/98 -0600, David Buehrer wrote these timeless words:
>Gurth wrote:
>/
>/ But the point is that if FASA brings
>/ out sourcebooks for playing <whatever> in SR, many players will
>/ get the impression that that's what SR is about -- after all they're
>/ going to see the books in their local game store.
>
>Ah. Okay, that's a good point that I hadn't thought of (once again I
>was assuming that the general public had as much common sense as I do
>:(
>
>Keep in mind that the basics (SSC, Shadowteck, Awakenings, VR2, R2, and
>Thingummy) are still on the shelves at the game store. Hopefully
>players and GMs will realize that they are the core sourcebooks and the
>other sourcebooks are optional flavors. Of course, that's an awful lot
>to hope for.
>
>I'll reserve my opinion until I see how SR3 is presented. That will
>make all the difference in the world, IMHO.
>
Welp, we'll have a LOT more detailed info coming soon, but...

They really do go into the whole concept of Shadowrunners now in the core
book. There's a whole section just on what shadowrunners are, what they
do, and the the bloody hell a shadowrun is. You realize this will be the
first time that's ever actually explained? <boggle>

Anyways, my opinion on the whole thing is that, well, outside of the main
book, the core SB's, and the fictions, what more can you do geared strictly
around hard core shadowrunners? Pretty much SB that comes out that isn;t
"New Toys for Runners" but is still designed for "Regular" Shadowrun
campigns, I can already see most of this list complaining that it sounds
dumb or they wasted their money, because "This is all stuff I know or do now".

<shrug>

Bull
--
Bull -- The Best Ork Decker You Never Met
chaos@*****.com ===== bull22@***********.com
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604

=======================================================
= =
= Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any Fours? =
= =
=======================================================

"Can the Gummi Worms really live in peace with the Marshmallow Chicks?"
-- Pinky, "Pinky and the Brain"
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 16:23:59 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: Land Trains
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Would anybody mind givin' me a detailed description of these things?
All I know about 'em is the stats in R2.
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 16:32:57 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Assault canon in RL
In-Reply-To: <AFFFCF221D65D111923800805FA7E86D50128C@***********>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 02:56 PM 8/4/98 -0400, you wrote:

> I was using the porting of the paintball barrels as an
>example of the type of holes I was talking about. I wasn't saying that
>they would react in the same way or that paintball had anything even
>remotely in common with firearms at all.
> I was just saying that paintball gun barrels have holes
>in them SIMILAR to the ones I was describing. That's it.

Okay, I suspected as much. But considering some of the conversations I've
seen on Warpig's message boards, I thought I had better make 100% sure,
since it's seemingly a very common mistake to link PB and firearms
ballistics/concepts, which isn't a very good thing to do most of the time.

Cool deal then.

Didn't know you played; very cool. IF you are new to the sport (don't
know) or if you are looking for another opinion on a gun or accessory, feel
free to ask. I keep up with Warpig and the local PB shops know me by face
if not by name, so I hear a lot of gossip and news, some of which may be of
interest to you.

Erik J.



http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 16:56:43 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Droopy ." <mmanhardt@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980804195735.00695e48@***.skynet.be>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

From: AlSeyMer <AdSM@******.BE>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR

> Both IR goggles and thermographic imaging (TID) device will let you know if
> an object is hot or cold, and the TID may give you an idea of its temperature.

Uh...no...IR goggles amplify reflected light, specificly in the IR
spectrum. Actually, night vision goggles cover a wider range of
frequencies going from IR to UV light.

> IIRC, the big difference between IR goggles and TID is not the principles
> on which they are running, as both of them capture IR radiation as a mean
> to detect "hotness"; but is in the way this information is processed. The
> input is the same, that's the output that is different.

Not at all.


--Droopy
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 17:02:18 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: BigDaddy <bigdaddy@*****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Re: kids in the '90s was BC{OT}
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Craig J Wilhelm Jr wrote:
>
> BigDaddy wrote:
> > ya know I'm sorry to say but IMO this is a sad state to have. Our kids
> > are being numbed to violence all around them. 1/2 the stuff on TV
> > involves destruction in 1 way or the other, the other 1/2 involves
> > saying its ok. Totally disturbing and something should be done. I can't
> > wait to have my kids. I will be the hardest asshole father imaginable.
> > My father turned my ass red with a wooden spoon when i was bad, I'm
> > gonna do it to my kids, It'll teach em real discipline not this "it's ok
> > your just angry at the world, just don't do it again" crap. Give the kid
> > a spanking and he'll never do it again!
>
> Okay, let me get this straight...
> You complain that kids are becomming numbed to violence, then you go
> ahead and say that you'll put the smack-down on your kids when their
> bad. Right?
> I just don't get it...
> --
>

ok perhaps i phrased it wrong. I will use punishment, not violence. It's
the old tried and true form of discipline. If a dog does something bad u
don't shake your finger at him and say don't do it again. You smack
him/her with your hand,newspaper,etc forcefully(don't use a bat and wail
on him) while saying "bad dog, No!, etc etc". Use your fair judgment
when adminstering discpline, please don't take this to mean I will
iron-fist my kids with a shotgun and crowbar!

--
Napalm Sticks to Kidz,
BigDaddy
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 17:03:35 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: BigDaddy <bigdaddy@*****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Re: kids in the '90s was BC{OT}
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote:
>
> Craig J Wilhelm Jr wrote:
> >BigDaddy wrote:
> >> ya know I'm sorry to say but IMO this is a sad state to have. Our kids
> >> are being numbed to violence all around them. 1/2 the stuff on TV
> [snip]
> >> My father turned my ass red with a wooden spoon when i was bad, I'm
> >> gonna do it to my kids, It'll teach em real discipline not this "it's
ok
> >> your just angry at the world, just don't do it again" crap. Give the
kid
> >> a spanking and he'll never do it again!
> >
> > Okay, let me get this straight...
> > You complain that kids are becomming numbed to violence, then you go
> >ahead and say that you'll put the smack-down on your kids when their
> >bad. Right?
> > I just don't get it...
>
> Okay, try it this way - would you consider children more numb to
> violence today than 100 years ago? 50 years ago? Now compare the
> use of corporal punishment during those time periods. When my parents
> (let alone grandparents) went to school, there were still *teachers*
> physically punishing students. Nowadays, they'd be assigned detention,
> sent to the principal etc. The less numb to violence you are, the more
> it will negatively affect you, the more you are likely to change your
> behaviours to avoid it.
>
> Basically, kids these days aren't being taught that their actions can
> have negative consequences. Sure, they're *told* it, but they don't
> really believe it. So they go around and do stuff that they know they
> shouldn't to test the boundaries of what'll happen to them.
>
> How this projects into 2059, I dunno...
>


perhaps in 2060 they'll use elcetroshock. Billy falls asleep in class,
teacher pushes a button. ZAP! billy recieves a minor shock. Billy wakes
up. ETC etc.
--
Napalm Sticks to Kidz,
BigDaddy
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:02:59 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Foaming Rant
In-Reply-To: <199808041750.LAA12055@******.carl.org> from "Erik Jameson"
at
Aug 4, 98 01:44:09 pm
Content-Type: text

Erik Jameson wrote:
/
[snap]
/
/ And don't dare, by bringing others into this, try and make this anything
/ like and me vs. them or otherwise divide the list. This is between you and
/ I, Keith. Don't involve others.

<takes off his GridSec hat>

<foaming rant>

Jesus fuckin H Christ on a popsicle stick! Why in the hell did you
send it to the list if you wanted to keep it between you and Keith?!?!

If you start butting heads with another listmember and you want to keep it
between the two of you then take it to private email!

And don't even think about trying to get away with the hypocritic act
of telling Keith to keep it between the two of you and then sending it
to the list, cuz I'm not going to let you. If you air out your dirty
laundry on the list then by God be prepared to be addressed by everyone
on the list. Be prepared for others to take sides.

"Don't involve others" he says. christ.

</foaming rant>

Aw jeez, I slobbered all over my new shirt.

<wanders off to change his shirt>

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 16:07:48 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Edward Poe <epoe@***.PCNETINC.COM>
Subject: Re: Going away!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

On 4 Aug 1998 The Bookworm wrote:

>They do run a day care area where you can drop off you kids for the day
>while you go game. I dont rember how much it costs but it look preety
>nice, they even get snacks and a nap time:).

Huh. I didn't know about that. My wife would slit my throat for dropping
Bethany off at a strange day care. (besides the kid would role-play a
banshee quite well - ouch.) I REALLY want the kid to ASK for a trip to
GenCon when she's old enough to understand gaming.

"Okay sweetie, your target number is 5 and you roll 4 dice. Can you show
daddy 4 dice? GOOD GIRL! You can have a karma point for that..."

Lurker Hedley, a.k.a. Edward Poe,
Senior Systems Engineer (read: "Corp Decker")
PC Net, Inc.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 17:09:44 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: BigDaddy <bigdaddy@*****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Re: Foaming Rant
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

David Buehrer wrote:
>
> Erik Jameson wrote:
> /
> [snap]
> /
> / And don't dare, by bringing others into this, try and make this anything
> / like and me vs. them or otherwise divide the list. This is between you and
> / I, Keith. Don't involve others.
>
> <takes off his GridSec hat>
>
> <foaming rant>
>
> Jesus fuckin H Christ on a popsicle stick! Why in the hell did you
> send it to the list if you wanted to keep it between you and Keith?!?!
>
> If you start butting heads with another listmember and you want to keep it
> between the two of you then take it to private email!
>
> And don't even think about trying to get away with the hypocritic act
> of telling Keith to keep it between the two of you and then sending it
> to the list, cuz I'm not going to let you. If you air out your dirty
> laundry on the list then by God be prepared to be addressed by everyone
> on the list. Be prepared for others to take sides.
>
> "Don't involve others" he says. christ.
>
> </foaming rant>
>
> Aw jeez, I slobbered all over my new shirt.
>
> <wanders off to change his shirt>
>
> -David
>

this looks good <EG> i must have missed the inital post.

--
Napalm Sticks to Kidz,
BigDaddy
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 16:14:55 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wyrmy <elfman@******.COM>
Subject: Re: New spells Anyone?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I think since most people are going away to GC(where is it held anyway?)
, that we should spend our time doing something constructive, rather
than mope about. How about we all come up with new spells(I'm making a
collection of spells, and need all the new spells I can get).I'll start
it off.

Raid bolt:
When cast, it launches a bolt of concentrated insecticde at target.if it
hits a bug, the bug takes extra damage.
Type:Physical range:LOS
Target:4 Damage:L(S)
Duration: instant Drain: [(F/2)+3]S


--
-W
============================
If you are a dreamer come in,
If you are a dreeamer, a wisher,
A liar, a magic jelly bean buyer,
Come In!
-What should be the motto of all internet users.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 17:09:52 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: kids in the '90s was BC{OT}
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> perhaps in 2060 they'll use elcetroshock. Billy falls asleep in =
class,
> teacher pushes a button. ZAP! billy recieves a minor shock. Billy
> wakes
> up. ETC etc.
>
Since spanking is now considered child abuse in some
areas my fiancé and I have decided we will tase our children (yes =
tase
as in taser).
"No Officer I never touched the kid."
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 17:10:42 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: Going away!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

> "Okay sweetie, your target number is 5 and you roll 4 dice. Can you
> show
> daddy 4 dice? GOOD GIRL! You can have a karma point for that..."
>
OH HELL YES!
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 17:14:44 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: BigDaddy <bigdaddy@*****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Re: kids in the '90s was BC{OT}
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

bryan.covington@****.COM wrote:
>
> > perhaps in 2060 they'll use elcetroshock. Billy falls asleep in class,
> > teacher pushes a button. ZAP! billy recieves a minor shock. Billy
> > wakes
> > up. ETC etc.
> >
> Since spanking is now considered child abuse in some
> areas my fiancé and I have decided we will tase our children (yes tase
> as in taser).
> "No Officer I never touched the kid."


hahahah good one. Now what states consider spanking(god almighty have
the govt really fubard our lives up!) child abuse?
--
Napalm Sticks to Kidz,
BigDaddy
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 16:48:31 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: kids in the '90s [Now sorta back on topic]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 03:24 PM 8/4/98 -0400, Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote these timeless words:

>Basically, kids these days aren't being taught that their actions can
>have negative consequences. Sure, they're *told* it, but they don't
>really believe it. So they go around and do stuff that they know they
>shouldn't to test the boundaries of what'll happen to them.
>
>How this projects into 2059, I dunno...
>
Hey, YOU get a swat from a pissed off Troll Momma cause you talked back,
and see if THAT doesn;t change your attitude :]

<grin>

No wonder Trolls have such a high Body :] They have to if they want to
survive childhood :]

Bull
--
Bull -- The Best Ork Decker You Never Met
chaos@*****.com ===== bull22@***********.com
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604

=======================================================
= =
= Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any Fours? =
= =
=======================================================

"Can the Gummi Worms really live in peace with the Marshmallow Chicks?"
-- Pinky, "Pinky and the Brain"
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 16:24:34 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Wyrmy <elfman@******.COM>
Subject: Re: kids in the '90s [Now sorta back on topic]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> No wonder Trolls have such a high Body :] They have to if they want to
> survive childhood :]
Yeah, survive all 15 years, hten they are a fully mature adult!(trolls
and orks mature bodily much faster than us Elves! Espescialy the
slightly obese,but still strong ones:^))
--
-W
============================
If you are a dreamer come in,
If you are a dreeamer, a wisher,
A liar, a magic jelly bean buyer,
Come In!
-What should be the motto of all internet users.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 17:22:48 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Droopy ." <mmanhardt@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
In-Reply-To: <001c01bdbfdb$47376e40$42dcf69b@**********.u96.stevens-tech.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR

> Then how is it that the US Thermo goggles can be used to read maps with the
> aid of a thermo flashlight?

I actually answerd thisa already, having gotten my mail in a
jumbled order as usual.

I just want to add that if you sit inside of a m-113 that is buttoned
up with no lights on, us army night vision devices will show you
nada, zip, zilch. If you turn on an IR lightsource, you will see the
light that is being reflected off of the objects inside of the vehicle.

Try it at home and see for yourself. :)


--Droopy
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 17:22:48 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Droopy ." <mmanhardt@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
In-Reply-To: <AFFFCF221D65D111923800805FA7E86D501291@***********>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR

> > Then how is it that the US Thermo goggles can be used to read maps
> > with the
> > aid of a thermo flashlight?
> >
> Because "thermo" goggles will work with an active IR
> source but active IR goggles will not give you a heat sensitive look at
> the world (they aren't sensitive enough).
>

Or maybe because you people are mixing up night vision goggles
which see reflected light with thermographic goggles wich see heat
emmisions?

Obviously the map gives off an even heat, so thermographic
goggles would not allow you to see what it says, only how warm it
is compared to its surroundings.

Night vision goggles see reflected light. This light can be visible
light, or even IR light given off by any number of sources.


--Droopy
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 17:23:37 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: State of the Indusrty - Avalon Hill
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

For those who care...

---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ----------------
Date: 08/04 2:49 PM
Received: 08/04 5:08 PM
From: Steve Jackson Games, sjg@*******.sjgames.com

SJ Games News: Hasbro buying Avalon Hill

A Reuters report confirms persistent net rumor: Monarch Avalon has
agreed
to sell its game division to Hasbro for $6 million in cash, pending
stockholder
approval. According to an AOL posting from an Avalon Hill employee, all
AH staff have been laid off; this has not been confirmed. We'll bring
you more as the story develops . . .
-- Steve Jackson


Related Links:

1. http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980804/monarch_av_1.html
2. http://www.io.com/~sj/

The Daily Illuminator is also posted on the SJ Games website, at
http://www.sjgames.com/. To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to
majordomo@*******.sjgames.com with the message "unsubscribe illuminator".

----------------- End Forwarded Message -----------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 17:26:59 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Foaming Rant
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Once upon a time, BigDaddy wrote;

>this looks good <EG> i must have missed the inital post.

You and me both. <no EG>. I haven't seen a thread worth reading for
a while now.
B>[#

OTOH, I miss messes like this one.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

"Boy, I'm in a bad mood today! Everyone had better steer clear of me! I
hate EVERYBODY! As far as I'm concerned, everyone on the planet can just
drop dead. People are scum.
.....
WELL-L-L? DOESN'T ANYONE WANT TO CHEER ME UP?!?"
-Calvin, Calvin and Hobbes
I am MC23
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 22:29:19 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: RPG deaths
In-Reply-To: <35C73A4B.D40ACB4E@*****.com> from "BigDaddy" at Aug 4,
98 12:43:55 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did BigDaddy hastily scribble thusly...
|B.A.D? or are you talking about M.A.D.D (mothers against drunk driving?)

Nahhh, this one was specifically about banning ADnD.
(The womans son committed suicide, and she blamed the games and started
spreading negative propoganda against it in the hope of "saving" people from
it.

A very stupid woman.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 16:31:51 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Edward Poe <epoe@***.PCNETINC.COM>
Subject: Re: kids in the '90s was BC{OT}
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

>hahahah good one. Now what states consider spanking(god almighty have
>the govt really fubard our lives up!) child abuse?
>--
> Napalm Sticks to Kidz,
> BigDaddy

Missouri for sure: I have two teen-aged daughters from my first
marriage. About six years ago I spanked my eldest for lying to me and I
left a bruise just slightly smaller than my palm on her rump. My bitch
of an ex-wife saw this and called the law down on me. (She spanks the
kids, too, but that besides the point :-/) It wasn't until after the
uniformed gentlemen came to my office and arrested me for child abuse
that I knew I'd committed a crime!

BTW, I was never charged with a crime. The Missouri Department of Social
Services sent a Counselor to my home to discuss the matter. According
to said Counselor "Under Missouri statute, there is NEVER an appropriate
time to administer ANY disciplinary measure that involves physical or
emotional pain to a child."

Now my 14 and 15 year-old girls are dating men in their 20's, their
mother thinks this is O.K. When I voiced an objection, the girls said to
me, "Get the hell out of our lives, Asshole!"

Their mother just smiled.

Lurker Hedley,
Re-married with toddler daughter.
Maybe I'll get it right this time...
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 22:34:19 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: RPG deaths
In-Reply-To: <199808041648.MAA23912@*****.globecomm.net> from "Paul
Gettle" at
Aug 4, 98 12:48:42 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Paul Gettle hastily scribble thusly...
|Actually, there are very few documented cases of death by D&D,
|acording to my sources. In fact, there have been studies that indicate
|that Role-Players are statistically less likely to commit suicide.

And the reasons for this?
There are two ideas as to why this is the case.

1> People who play RPGs are of a type that are more stable and mature on
average.

or

2> Playing RPGs lets you get rid of all those violent ideas and inclinations
in a fantasy environment where the only people who get hurt are imaginary.


|The only reason most people see "steam tunneling" as taking the game
|"too far", is because of the whole suicide mythos that has been built
|up around it.

For Steam Tunneling, I'm reading Live Roleplaying, I assume.
Yup, been there. Done that.
In fact, I started LRPing before I started tabletopping.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 22:35:37 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Going away! -Reply
In-Reply-To: <s5c7036a.038@******.com> from "Lehlan Decker" at Aug 4,
98 12:54:09 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Lehlan Decker hastily scribble thusly...
|Ack....c is wonderful, but not with microsoft products. Give me
|unix and gcc anyday. SED! Now there is an evil word...repeat
|back......perl is good....perl is good...sed is bad. perl is good...
|perl is good...sed is bad. :) I have a feeling this is OT, and
|on the borderline area about OS's so.....
|

Nahhh, it's more about languages than OSs.
I'm using GCC to compile the program I'm having trouble with ATM.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 17:35:43 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
In-Reply-To: <199808042122.RAA10579@****.usaor.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> > Then how is it that the US Thermo goggles can be used to read
> maps with the
> > aid of a thermo flashlight?
>
> I actually answerd thisa already, having gotten my mail in a
> jumbled order as usual.
>
> I just want to add that if you sit inside of a m-113 that is buttoned
> up with no lights on, us army night vision devices will show you
> nada, zip, zilch. If you turn on an IR lightsource, you will see the
> light that is being reflected off of the objects inside of the vehicle.
>
> Try it at home and see for yourself. :)
>
>
> --Droopy

Er, wouldn't that illuminate the interior enough to maneuver in it?

Ian Silvercat claims the above in the name of himself!
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
That which does not exist has never been named - Mirumoto Nohito
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 22:43:29 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
In-Reply-To: <199808041823.OAA27796@****.usaor.net> from "Droopy ." at
Aug 4,
98 02:23:20 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did Droopy . hastily scribble thusly...
|
|From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
|Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
|
|> IR is a VERY, VERY wide area in the electromagnetic spectrum.
|> The shortest IR frequencies are produced as radiated heat, and are detected
|> by passive infra-red.
|
|> So Active and passive IR are different, yes, but Thermo is still IR.
|
|Thermo IS IR, but the methods of 'seeing' them are completely
|different. Also, do not confuse radiated heat with IR light. They are
|considered to be two different things.

That's what I said!
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 17:38:28 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Involvements (Public Stage)
In-Reply-To: <6d756829.35c7617f@***.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

This isn't the place. I will summarily ignore anything with this subject
header coming from the list. If you've got problems with me (or for that
matter, anyone else on the list) take it private.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 17:52:42 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: BigDaddy <bigdaddy@*****.COM>
Organization: @**** Network
Subject: Re: kids in the '90s was BC{OT}
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Edward Poe wrote:
>
> >hahahah good one. Now what states consider spanking(god almighty have
> >the govt really fubard our lives up!) child abuse?
> >--
> > Napalm Sticks to Kidz,
> > BigDaddy
>
> Missouri for sure: I have two teen-aged daughters from my first
> marriage. About six years ago I spanked my eldest for lying to me and I
> left a bruise just slightly smaller than my palm on her rump. My bitch
> of an ex-wife saw this and called the law down on me. (She spanks the
> kids, too, but that besides the point :-/) It wasn't until after the
> uniformed gentlemen came to my office and arrested me for child abuse
> that I knew I'd committed a crime!
>
> BTW, I was never charged with a crime. The Missouri Department of Social
> Services sent a Counselor to my home to discuss the matter. According
> to said Counselor "Under Missouri statute, there is NEVER an appropriate
> time to administer ANY disciplinary measure that involves physical or
> emotional pain to a child."
>
> Now my 14 and 15 year-old girls are dating men in their 20's, their
> mother thinks this is O.K. When I voiced an objection, the girls said to
> me, "Get the hell out of our lives, Asshole!"
>
> Their mother just smiled.
>
>

I'm sorry but this needed a response. RANT yes, if this happens in any
other country please inform us!

This is what America is turning into. Hell I'm 21, my morals may be a
bit wierd and slightly "off" at times but this is uncalled for! What you
do in your home to your kids is YOUR responsibilty. Now before everyone
jumps down my throat, let me expand a bit:

You should be allowed to punish your children if neccessary, corporal or
verbal (the military does this all the friggin time to soliders if the
misbehave <see military regs> so what makes them special).

What you shouldn't be able to do is BEAT them, a swift administering of
punishment yes, but not using HEAVY amounts of force. Use a wooden spoon
not a wooden bat.

God Almighty what have we done to America...



--
Napalm Sticks to Kidz,
BigDaddy
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 22:52:22 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: RPG deaths
In-Reply-To: <b10265bf.35c75eb3@***.com> from "Nexx Many-Scars" at Aug 4,
98 03:19:12 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did Nexx Many-Scars hastily scribble thusly...
|Well, this lady started getting weird about games, and basically started
|making up figures to back up her claims that D&D was evil. There are some
|better coverages of this on the Web... try doing a Yahoo Search for RPG's and
|Satanism... they've got an entire category on it (which includes on hilarious
|Finnish page that the guy is either a brilliant satirist or one of the most
|screwed up people outside the US of A), and has some good info on it.

Yup. I think I saw that a couple of years ago...
I couldn't be sure if it was a paarody, or if he really was serious, and
thus a very sick and twisted individual....

:)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:18:01 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Real Science
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

K is the Symbol wrote:
>
> It's kind of like that *other* thread about Suncell. The knowledge that is
> being shared is real, but is also incomplete. Time I would say to go web
> browsing and see what can -really- be found out there today, and then make an
> extrapolation about tomorrow's yet unknown...

Or better yet, does anyone here have access to scientific
publications? Those
periodicals wich display all the current theories and achievements in
detail? Or are they
only available to professional scientists? Are there professional
scientists here on the list?

Bira
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 22:54:37 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: kids in the '90s was BC{OT}
In-Reply-To:
<cÊ%a=GOVMT.CANADA%p=GC+EC%lìNCR_EXCH2-980804192442Z-47959@***.ncr.ec.gc.ca>
from "Ojaste,James
[NCR]" at Aug 4, 98 03:24:42 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Ojaste,James [NCR] hastily scribble thusly...
|Okay, try it this way - would you consider children more numb to
|violence today than 100 years ago? 50 years ago? Now compare the
|use of corporal punishment during those time periods. When my parents
|(let alone grandparents) went to school, there were still *teachers*
|physically punishing students.

GRANDPARENTS?
I've had the cane before now when I was at school!
And the slipper. (PE teachers used to slap you across the bare buttocks if
you forgot your towel for the shower...)

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:05:37 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Location
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Logan Graves wrote:
>
> In our last episode, Grahamdrew & Bai Shen wrote:
> >
> B> > Jus' outta curiousity, are there any SR players in the VA area? I
> B> > haven't had much luck with findin' a group. :(
> >
> G> Ok, well the thought comes up...
> G> Does anyone play Shadowrun in Maryland
>
> Well, Vixen & I practically live on the VA/MD border. Unfortunately,
> we're stuck out on the "Eastern Shore" portion of these two states
> (south of Salisbury, aka Delmarva), which truely *IS* the blackhole of
> the universe!
>

Make it the blackhole of the USA, then. My home town here in Brasil
had absolutely
NO players besides me, my brother and a friend of ours. Some days ago
(before coming back from my
vacation there), I got some kids interested in SR, but how I'll GM then
from a distance of
2000km gets to be a problem...

Bira, AKA HotDeck
SysOp Shadowland.BR :)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:28:52 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: RPG deaths [Slightly OT]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> (Heck...I'm stuck in the
> middle of the bible belt, USA, so ye can just imagine the hell I get for
> playing such "evil games" ;-)
> Just My $.02
> -Drrakn (AdamL)


And do the people in your area really exagerate so much as Mrs.
"B.A.D"? I'm just curious...

Bira
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:09:00 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Make friends and influence people
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dvixen wrote:
>
> Well. I realise that it is hot outside, but I'd think that everyone keeps
> their copmuters inside and their brains out of the heat.
>
> Take a step back everyone. When people are being grouchier to each other on
> list than *me*, you've gone too far. Turn off the mailer, grab some Iced
> tea, and spend a half hour reading your fave comic strip.

Wear extremely light clothes (both in color, weight and skin
percentage covered)
if it's hot... Your mood is likely to get better, as you won't be
roasted :).
I am facing about 14C right now, and even my home town was a bit
cooler than usual
(wich is to say it was at 35C).

Bira
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:49:57 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Spike wrote:
> UV light has problems of it's own.
> Phosphorescence being a biggie.
> UV (or black) light it what they use in discos to make your dandruff
> sparkle.
>
> :)

It also lights up the underwear of some women using thin white
shirts/dresses :) .

Bira
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:01:53 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Mike's Course
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-04 13:59:35 EDT, you write:

> > I'll reserve my opinion until I see how SR3 is presented. That will
> > make all the difference in the world, IMHO.

I'm going to say right now I'm going to reserve _all_ of my opinions about
_all_ things SR3 until I get at least a couple days to read through the book,
cover-to-cover, at least once. I hate arguing from a position of ignorance,
so I try to avoid it. (Stop laughing. I really do try)

> I think so too... I'm hoping it stays true to the original concept of
> runners doing their thing for their own reasons, not because
> they're out to improve the world.

Couldn't that be part of their reasons for running? Sure, you're going to
have a _lot_ of mercenaries in this business (I would say a clear majority),
but you're also going to have Neo-Anarchists out to make the world a better
place, people who were told by their totem to take certain actions, thrill-
seekers who like to get shot at, ex-government and corprate agents who want to
screw over their last employer, lab mice trying to take over the world, toxics
working hard at killing all of humanity, Invae sympathizers who want to start
a new hive, hermetic bookworms looking for focus components, people looking
for family members\friends\dogs, amnesiacs looking for their past, cyber-
fiends looking for their souls, magic-users on the run from magical groups,
Discordians promoting the eristic principle, envioromentalists, tribals... In
short, if the number of runners in the world equals X, then the number of
reasons to run is going to be (X^478993478613789413287956349810932)+5. True,
I think getting away from saving the world as the reason to run is a good
idea... but I don't think it should be completely discarded, if for no other
reason than that's the kind of games I like to be in.

Nexx
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:06:43 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matt Penn <steelclaw@****.COM>
Subject: Re: RPG deaths [Slightly OT]

On Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:28:52 -0300 "Ubiratan P. Alberton"
<ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR> writes:

> And do the people in your area really exagerate so much as Mrs.
>"B.A.D"? I'm just curious...

Actually, I live in the South and conveniently enough, in the Bible Belt,
too. I've never gotten any flak for "indulging in sinful and Satanic
practices." Contrary to popular belief, RPGs are quite popular around
here. White Wolf, mainly, with healthy doses of SR and Palladium
bringing up the rear. People also seem to like that new sci-fi game,
Alternity. But, I've never heard a word for or against it.

'Course, our main source here is a well-stocked comic shop. Down in
Charleston, a friend of mine says they have the occasional bad piece on
the local news because their main source is a game shop that doubles as a
New Age shop. It makes for a tempting target.

-Matt, Homo Sapiens Robustus
"Please hand me my Bible of Satanic Revela...er...my Shadowrun main
book."

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 23:18:07 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: RPG deaths [Slightly OT]
In-Reply-To: <19980804.180658.13918.2.steelclaw@****.com> from "Matt
Penn" at
Aug 4, 98 06:06:43 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Matt Penn hastily scribble thusly...
|'Course, our main source here is a well-stocked comic shop. Down in
|Charleston, a friend of mine says they have the occasional bad piece on
|the local news because their main source is a game shop that doubles as a
|New Age shop. It makes for a tempting target.

And it's not just the Bible belt in america.
A friend used to own a shop in Ashton-under-lyne, near Manchester, and he
had the occasional religious fruitloop popping in saying he'd burn in hell,
etc etc etc...

And the propoganda does spread.
When I was at Oldham College (hometown before moving down to Keele Uni), a
couple of the steff there tried to warn me off RPGs saying they were
"dangerous".

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:07:06 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Magnus J. Berg" <nied@****.COM>
Subject: Re: HoL

>It stands for Human Occupied Landfill, which is a prison planet of
>the Confederation Of Worlds (COW), and on which the game is
>set. It's basically a twisted SF RPG with a sick sense of humor :)
>The game is published by White Wolf's "Black Dog Game Factory"
>label, and is entirely hand-written -- not a handwriting-like font,
>but actually hand-written -- and you probably don't want to even
>look at it if you're easily offended. If you're not, then it's a
>brilliant book to read if you have some gaming experience.
>Whether it's actually playable or not I still haven't found out,
>though.

Oh, it's definitely playable. In fact, despite the fact that the book is
completely chaotic, it's really easy to play. One of the problems is
coming up with decent plots after the standard "A pack of Sodomy Bikers
attacks your party. run away and try not to get killed."

That's the other problem. Unless you're very resourceful (or your
character can run very quickly or you have a really big gun), your
character will get crushed quickly. (One of the books has stats for
DEATH, dammit!)

Overall HoL is best for one session games everyone once in a while.
Linear campaigns of HoL can kill you. Believe me, I've tried.

Magnus Berg

Operate Starship and chew gum at the same time
Turn radios into howitzers
sudden philosophical tangent
make someone stop living with your fist
making sharp things go through soft things that scream and bleedd
make people do your bidding by screaming unintelligibly
(sample skills from HoL)

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:21:38 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [OT] Black Cauldron
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-08-04 15:56:48 EDT, you write:

> I believe this topic was killed (rightfully so) by
> Admin. I have discussed it off list with the parties involved and all is
> settled (if not, its over at least as I am not speaking any more of it).
>
> Lets let it lie Nexx.

I know, but I read your response, and answered it, before I got to Adam's kill
message
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:37:02 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Collins <einan@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: RPG deaths [Slightly OT]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

>And the propoganda does spread.
>When I was at Oldham College (hometown before moving down to Keele Uni), a
>couple of the steff there tried to warn me off RPGs saying they were
>"dangerous".
>


Well They are dangerous. RPG's tend to encourage independant thought,
very dangerous stuff, I believe there is a bill in the works over here to
regulate it and make it illegal in certain circumstances.

Steve

P.S. Big Brother is Watching
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 19:32:00 -0300
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: RPG deaths [Slightly OT]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Spike wrote:
>
> And verily, did Matt Penn hastily scribble thusly...
> |'Course, our main source here is a well-stocked comic shop. Down in
> |Charleston, a friend of mine says they have the occasional bad piece on
> |the local news because their main source is a game shop that doubles as a
> |New Age shop. It makes for a tempting target.
>
> And it's not just the Bible belt in america.
> A friend used to own a shop in Ashton-under-lyne, near Manchester, and he
> had the occasional religious fruitloop popping in saying he'd burn in hell,
> etc etc etc...
>
> And the propoganda does spread.
> When I was at Oldham College (hometown before moving down to Keele Uni), a
> couple of the steff there tried to warn me off RPGs saying they were
> "dangerous".
>

Here in Brasil the problem is not that B.A.D :) , everyone just
blatantly
ignores the game :) (I surprised some people today as I took my recently
obtained
copy of Rigger 2 to school :) ).

Bira
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 23:36:21 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: HoL
In-Reply-To: <19980804.180719.12030.0.Nied@****.com> from "Magnus J.
Berg" at
Aug 4, 98 06:07:06 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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And verily, did Magnus J. Berg hastily scribble thusly...
|Operate Starship and chew gum at the same time
|Turn radios into howitzers
|sudden philosophical tangent
|make someone stop living with your fist
|making sharp things go through soft things that scream and bleedd
|make people do your bidding by screaming unintelligibly
|(sample skills from HoL)

Yup....
And the range modifier table is funny as well....
Really really near
Really near
near
not quite near
far
really far
really really far
really really really far
etc...
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:39:41 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Going away!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Spike wrote:

> And verily, did Caric hastily scribble thusly...
> |I don't plan on going nomail...I want to reveiw Spike lamentations when I
> |get back :)
>
> What? You mean the "WHERE IS EVERYONE?" and "I'M LONELY" posts?

Yup.

It's always nice to feel missed...and Spike tends to get creative in his
suffering.

:)


Caric
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 23:48:15 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Going away!
In-Reply-To: <35C72B36.D6569D3F@********.com> from "Caric" at Aug 4,
98 03:39:41 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

And verily, did Caric hastily scribble thusly...
|Yup.
|
|It's always nice to feel missed...and Spike tends to get creative in his
|suffering.
|
|:)

I might be a little too busy to suffer this time.
Work, wirk, werk....

Got to get this damned C program to work, and then change it slightly,
making sure it still works, and then change those another couple of times so
I've got 3 programs to hand in doing different things to the same data...

BUM!

2 1/2 weeks before deadline, and I'm a natural at avoiding doing work.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:51:57 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Daryl Williams <enwill@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: New spells Anyone?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

---Wyrmy <elfman@******.COM> wrote:
>
> I think since most people are going away to GC(where is it held
anyway?)
> , that we should spend our time doing something constructive, rather
> than mope about. How about we all come up with new spells(I'm making a
> collection of spells, and need all the new spells I can get).I'll
start
> it off.
>
> Raid bolt:
> When cast, it launches a bolt of concentrated insecticde at
target.if it
> hits a bug, the bug takes extra damage.
> Type:Physical range:LOS
> Target:4 Damage:L(S)
> Duration: instant Drain: [(F/2)+3]S

Yeah, for us that don't have the means or the money to make it to
GC this year.. We have to have something to do so...

Raid Fogger:
A larger more effective version of Raid Bolt, it covers an area of
2meter/force pt of the spell,with a highly concentrated insecticide
that does extra damage bugs.
Type: Physical Range:2meters/force pt
Target:4 Damage: L(D)
Duration: 1rnd/Succ Drain: [F+2]D

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 16:16:58 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Daryl Williams <enwill@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: RPG deaths [Slightly OT]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

---Matt Penn <steelclaw@****.COM> wrote:
>
> Actually, I live in the South and conveniently enough, in the Bible
Belt,
> too. I've never gotten any flak for "indulging in sinful and Satanic
> practices." Contrary to popular belief, RPGs are quite popular around
> here. White Wolf, mainly, with healthy doses of SR and Palladium
> bringing up the rear. People also seem to like that new sci-fi game,
> Alternity. But, I've never heard a word for or against it.
>
> 'Course, our main source here is a well-stocked comic shop. Down in
> Charleston, a friend of mine says they have the occasional bad piece
on
> the local news because their main source is a game shop that doubles
as a
> New Age shop. It makes for a tempting target.

I am there with you Matt, I live down on the boarder of Alabama
and Florida, so I am no strange to the Bible Belt. Yet, I have never
recieved 'flak' for taking part in our most beloved pasttime. :) Heck,
my parents themselves are Christian and very devote too.. and not once
have I ever gotten any crap from them about playing RPGs.

I suppose some people just can't draw the line between fantasy and
reality.. People who don't know about RPGs, especially church goers,
tend to think that the few stories that have gone around about kids
killing themselves or being killed due to these 'satanic games' are
the 'law of the land' and automaticly condem RPGs. Though they don't
understand anything about them. Its like in some Sci-Fi movies.."We
don't know what it is..its sure alien..so lets kill it!!" that is the
way these ppl seem to think about it. I am just glad I have never had
the displeasure of running into any of these people.. I might have to
do something Shadowrunesque.. >;)

Daryl..
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 09:24:34 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Land Trains
In-Reply-To: <35C76DDF.1571@**********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Bai Shen writes:
> Would anybody mind givin' me a detailed description of these things?
> All I know about 'em is the stats in R2.

Well, I don't know what is says in R2, but in R1 it was based on the
road-trains used here in Australia.

Basically, get a truck prime-mover. Attach a carriage on the end, and you
have a standard truck. Attach two or three more of these, and you have a
road train.

(The record for how long you can get one of these things is about 33
carriages... but it steers like crap. The legal limit here is 3, and even
that won't handle very well... really bloody scary to overtake, too, 'cause
they're always speeding, and they're something like a hundred meters long.)

--
Duct tape is like the Force: There's a Light side, a Dark side, and it
binds the Universe together.
Robert Watkins -- robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 19:48:36 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steve Collins <einan@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: RPG deaths [Slightly OT]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

>
> I am there with you Matt, I live down on the boarder of Alabama
>and Florida, so I am no strange to the Bible Belt. Yet, I have never
>recieved 'flak' for taking part in our most beloved pasttime. :) Heck,
>my parents themselves are Christian and very devote too.. and not once
>have I ever gotten any crap from them about playing RPGs.
>


I just moved to Atlanta and the only too people I know from here are ex
or current gamers (one is even partially responsible for creating one of
the more popular games out there today), but I did catch it from my
mother when I was a teen. As I grew up and away from the church I used to
be a member of (conservative fundamental southern baptist) she became
more and more involved.The church's attitude towards RPG's and Rock music
are what cemented it for me (the last straw was a sermon on backward
masking) that i just could not believe a word they were talking about. Of
course that was nothing compaired to when my parents became convinced I
was Gay because I didn't have a Girlfriend, had never had one, and
instead of spending Friday and Saturday nights looking for one spent it
in the company of several Guys playing RPG's. Now of course I'm married
with a child so my Father can actually look me in the eye, he would
barely talk to me when he thought I was Gay and never dared to ask if I
was, I guess he was too afarid of what the answer would be. I suppose it
didn't help that I am far more liberal (libretarian actually) than the
rest of my family (Regan Republicans all).
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 19:52:08 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Land Trains
In-Reply-To: <000201bdbfff$0a58cf40$5e5211ac@********.mincom.oz.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 09:24 AM 8/5/98 +1000, you wrote:

>Well, I don't know what is says in R2, but in R1 it was based on the
>road-trains used here in Australia.
>
>Basically, get a truck prime-mover. Attach a carriage on the end, and you
>have a standard truck. Attach two or three more of these, and you have a
>road train.

Would you be referring to what we here in the States often call "Big Rigs"?

>(The record for how long you can get one of these things is about 33
>carriages... but it steers like crap. The legal limit here is 3, and even
>that won't handle very well... really bloody scary to overtake, too, 'cause
>they're always speeding, and they're something like a hundred meters long.)

If we're talking about the same things, legal limit here (at least in CA)
is two trailers. Don't know the current status, but some in the trucking
industry tried to up the limit to 3. All sorts of people screamed bloody
blue murder and cited all sorts of statistics, so I *think* it got killed.
I can hope anyway.

So do these massive truck trains travel between heavily populated areas, or
do they just cruise the outback for example?

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 19:04:25 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Bell <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Land Trains
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980804165445.38379808@****.fbiz.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 07:52 PM 8/4/98 -0400, Erik Jameson wrote:
# At 09:24 AM 8/5/98 +1000, you wrote:
#
# >Basically, get a truck prime-mover. Attach a carriage on the end, and you
# >have a standard truck. Attach two or three more of these, and you have a
# >road train.
#
# Would you be referring to what we here in the States often call "Big Rigs"?
oh no... a real road train is a long damn thing, and I seem to remember
seeing four or five trailers......

# So do these massive truck trains travel between heavily populated areas, or
# do they just cruise the outback for example?
they mainly travel the desert highways and throw stones into the air like
you wouldnt believe

what you might call the "outback"

--
/- justin@************.com ---------------- justin@******.net -\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 10:05:57 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: RPG deaths
In-Reply-To: <AFFFCF221D65D111923800805FA7E86D501276@***********>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> Apparently there were tales spun of people playing in
> the large steam pipes under my college campus. They were down there when
> they pressure tested the system one summer. Guess they failed their
> saving throw.

Either you go to Ball State, or you've been reading Knights of the
Dinner Table again. :)

(For those of you that haven't seen KoDT, I strongly recommend picking
it up. A comic by gamers, about gamers, for gamers. I nearly killed
myself laughing.)

Lady Jestyr

- It's not pretty being easy -
| Elle Holmes | jestyr@**********.com | http://jestyr.home.ml.org |
| Shadowrun Webring Ringmaster | GeoCities Leader | RPGA Reviewer |
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 10:03:51 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Land Trains
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980804165445.38379808@****.fbiz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Erik Jameson writes:
> Would you be referring to what we here in the States often call
> "Big Rigs"?

Probably...
> So do these massive truck trains travel between heavily populated
> areas, or
> do they just cruise the outback for example?

Two-carriage road trains are permitted in some cities. Three-carriage road
trains, in _most_ states of Australia, are only allowed outside municipal
areas (so they just cruise the outback), but in the NT, where I came from,
they were allowed in towns and you'd see three-carriage road trains rumbling
down the major road systems in Darwin. :)

(Real fun stuff, let me tell you... especially the, um, "live-beef" trains.
Do you have any idea how bad a train full of cattle smells? Now imagine
being stuck behind one of those in peak-hour...)

--
Duct tape is like the Force: There's a Light side, a Dark side, and it
binds the Universe together.
Robert Watkins -- robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 20:08:16 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Assault canon in RL
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 8/4/98 2:52:20 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
mmanhardt@*****.NET writes:

> > Ever seen the barrel of a paintball gun? Kinda like
> > that. I'll assume you haven't even if you have and try to explain.
> > The breech of a recoilless rifle has 3 large holes in
> > the back which release the backblast in one massive firestorm. I'm
> > suggesting using lots of smaller holes to release the pressure without
> > the flame-thrower effect.
> > Rings of holes around the barrel. Probably angled in
> > bore in one direction or another to disperse the pressure. So you get
> > 100 little flashes instead of one monster one.
>
> Having fired recoiless rifles, I just have one question. Where do
> you expect the firer to be??? There's a reason that the back end of
> the RR is open (only 3 holes cause you need a firing pin back
> there.) And theres a reason why you don't stand behind one when
> it fires.

I know this has absolutely nothing to do with this particular posting ... but
has anyone considered that an Assault Cannon could be a man-portable mortar
that can be fired from the hip so to speak ?

This would help explain somewhat the recoil that is involved in firing a PAC
or something similar.

-Herc
------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 20:11:36 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Another question not regarding this posting right here ...

How much detail will someone see if they have thermographic vision ... and
what kind of detail can be seen ?

-Herc
------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 20:17:04 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: New spells Anyone?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 8/4/98 4:10:33 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
elfman@******.COM writes:

> I think since most people are going away to GC(where is it held anyway?)
> , that we should spend our time doing something constructive, rather
> than mope about. How about we all come up with new spells(I'm making a
> collection of spells, and need all the new spells I can get).I'll start
> it off.
>
> Raid bolt:
> When cast, it launches a bolt of concentrated insecticde at target.if it
> hits a bug, the bug takes extra damage.

From the sounds of it this is a Manip spell ...

> Type:Physical range:LOS
> Target:4 Damage:L(S)
> Duration: instant Drain: [(F/2)+3]S

I have perhaps another question on this topic ... though not dealing with a
spell in general ...

There are critters and people out there who have vulnerabilites and allergies
against certain things ...

Mages can use power foci to assist them with drain and dice for casting the
spell at them ...

What could happen if the mage casts a spell and has a Power / Spell Foci that
is the same as the target's vulnerability / allergy ... like a mage tossing a
Spirit Bolt at a Invae who happens to have a foci that has been made with
insecticide in it ... the insecticide is a natural substance, not something
mass-produced, and is radicalized by the mage in question ...

Hope I've been somewhat covering the bases with the description ..

-Herc
------ The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 10:19:44 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
In-Reply-To: <46b4389f.35c7a339@***.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Herc writes:
> Another question not regarding this posting right here ...
>
> How much detail will someone see if they have thermographic vision ... and
> what kind of detail can be seen ?

The traditional (and currently realistic) idea of thermographic vision is
depicted perfectly in the movie "Predator".

Presumably, for someone with thermographic vision as an add-on (as opposed
to someone who has a thermographic vision mode), the heat display is
overlaid in some way. In the book, "Changeling", the young troll described
it as a green glow.

Detail wouldn't be particularly high, as heat tends to "blur", or mix in
with the environment. And all the thermographic vision in the world won't
let you see the 10 ft pit in front of you, or the pit viper about to bite
your foot (to quote a D&D article I read once).

--
Duct tape is like the Force: There's a Light side, a Dark side, and it
binds the Universe together.
Robert Watkins -- robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 20:23:03 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: New spells Anyone?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 8/4/98 5:50:05 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
enwill@*****.COM writes:

> > Raid bolt:
> > When cast, it launches a bolt of concentrated insecticde at
> target.if it
> > hits a bug, the bug takes extra damage.
> > Type:Physical range:LOS
> > Target:4 Damage:L(S)
> > Duration: instant Drain: [(F/2)+3]S
>
> Yeah, for us that don't have the means or the money to make it to
> GC this year.. We have to have something to do so...
>
> Raid Fogger:
> A larger more effective version of Raid Bolt, it covers an area of
> 2meter/force pt of the spell,with a highly concentrated insecticide
> that does extra damage bugs.
> Type: Physical Range:2meters/force pt
> Target:4 Damage: L(D)
> Duration: 1rnd/Succ Drain: [F+2]D

Hey, does this sound just like variations on the Acid type manip spells out of
the grimoire ... which also brings up another point ...

Has anyone ever clued in to the fact that Restricted Target and Very
Restricted Target spell options are not allowed with manip spells, yet, there
are some spells which are Restricted in how they work ...

The perfect example of this :

Any of the specific barrier types ...

So, what do you all have to say ... as K and I have tossed out the manip
spells are not allowed to have restricted and VR target options ... we allow
them in fact ... makes for some rather interesting spells ...

-Herc
------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 10:42:35 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: New spells Anyone?
In-Reply-To: <83af3f10.35c7a5f3@***.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Mike Bobroff writes:
> Has anyone ever clued in to the fact that Restricted Target and Very
> Restricted Target spell options are not allowed with manip
> spells, yet, there
> are some spells which are Restricted in how they work ...
>
> The perfect example of this :
>
> Any of the specific barrier types ...

Restricting your target is, in fact, scaling down the severity of the
manipulation. This already gives reductions in the spell cost.

For example (just making numbers up out of whole cloth):
If a Barrier spell was considered a major change to the environment, then a
Bullet Barrier spell is obviously less than a major change.

Also (more technical reason), manipulation spells do not have to synchronise
auras in order to be cast. The Restricted Target options, and Very
Restricted target options, refer to building limitations on the ability of
the spell to synchronise auras, and, as such, make no sense when applied to
manipulation spells.

Here's an example: There's a manipulation spell of Shock. It creates
lightning bolts from my hand (ala the Emperor from Return of the Jedi). I
can't exactly make a version that only affects, oh, Orks, now, can I?
Lightning is lightning.

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:32:06 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: The Baxters <baxter@******.NET>
Subject: Re: License plates
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> From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
> Let's say that you need your SIN card to start a car, any car. The
> transponder broadcasts the driver's SIN *and* the car's registration
> number. Any trafic fines will be directed towards the driver, and
the
> traffic monitoring system can keep track of stolen cars, directing
> LoneStar officers to cars that are not being driven by their owners
> (unless the owner has registered the fact that he's loaning his car
> out).

Ooo! That's wicked! Wonder how my players would get around
this. For the runners without sin #'s this would mean footpower.
Hehehe!

Termite
baxter@******.net
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 20:53:24 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Frank Pelletier (Trinity)" <jeanpell@****.QC.CA>
Subject: Re: RANT! RPG deaths [Slightly OT]
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Steve Collins <einan@*********.NET> once wrote,

>
>Well They are dangerous. RPG's tend to encourage independant thought,
>very dangerous stuff, I believe there is a bill in the works over here to
>regulate it and make it illegal in certain circumstances.
>
>Steve


Now now now...

Let's not get carried away with this. This is what I hear mainly from RPG
affictionados who try to defend their game.

"It encourages creativity and the imagination"

"It develops language and relation skills"

"People who are usually very shy open up in RPG sessions"

etc, etc, etc.

Trust me, there's a bunch of loons in every hobby, and RPGs are not an
exception. At its base, Roleplaying is neither good nor bad. It's a hobby,
one shared by thousands. That's a lot of people. You ARE gonna find a
couple of nutcases in there. And since RPGs sometimes have that
"Cult/Demons/Murder" tangent (i.e. Kult, WoD games, In Nomine Satanis/Magna
Veritas (Not that washed-down Steve Jackson drivel, the original Croc
games), and a bunch of assorted games), well, you tend to attract MORE loons
that you should. (Your basic Satanist nut is NOT gonna play
shuffleboard...unless he's really, really bent...then you must RUN! :) ).

Image, people. It's all about image.

That's part of the problem. Check out your game store. Look around. See
how many dirty, smelly, antisocial Magic-playing Pepsi guzzlers you got
there. You got at LEAST one, maybe more, maybe a whole crew! When parents
go in to buy their games, what do they see? Them. Not us. Not the one who
studies, got his College degree, got a wife, kids, car, house, steady job
(mix and match to find your appropriate pattern :) ). Nope...they see the
people who belch when they face a hobbit, and look on in horror when *gasp*
a girl walks in (or get a hard-on, in which case they sit down). They don't
hear about the people who have careers, they don't know many celebrities
played whole CAMPAIGNS (Jacques Villeneuve comes to mind). No... They hear
about the nerds who scream "I am Aragorn!" while they stab their teacher
(happened in France). They hear about the players who kill themselves when
they lost a long-running character. They hear about the Florida thrill-kill
crew who JUST happened to play Vampire.

Case in point... Last season, a Quebec news show put on a little segment on
violent video games (during the Postal/GTA/Carmageddon craze), in which they
interviewed two players. The total morons looked like crazed maniacs. They
did not represent the video game community AT ALL. But still, what stuck
into the minds of the viewers? The two twonks, talking like lunatics. I
was outraged, but what could I do? Same thing with RPGs.

*sigh* It won't change. That's the nature of Media. People don't care
about normality, the wholesome experience RPGs can and should bring to
someone. They crave about those stories you see in the National Enquire.
*shrugs*

But as long as I can find a game with cool, normal people, well Hell! Play
on! :)

Trinity
-------------------------------------------------------------
Frank Pelletier
Trinity@********.com, jeanpell@****.qc.ca
This message was brought to you by Digital Undergound - "Future Rhythm"

"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind" - M. Gandhi
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:11:45 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Land Trains
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 8/4/98 7:06:40 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
justin@******.NET writes:

> # >Basically, get a truck prime-mover. Attach a carriage on the end, and you
> # >have a standard truck. Attach two or three more of these, and you have a
> # >road train.
> #
> # Would you be referring to what we here in the States often call "Big
Rigs"?
>
> oh no... a real road train is a long damn thing, and I seem to remember
> seeing four or five trailers......
>
> # So do these massive truck trains travel between heavily populated areas,
> or
> # do they just cruise the outback for example?
> they mainly travel the desert highways and throw stones into the air like
> you wouldnt believe
>
> what you might call the "outback"

I know that in the game itself they are mentioned as being used extensively to
transport materials between places, and there not even being a driver in them
...

-Herc
------ The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:14:43 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 8/4/98 7:23:35 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
robert.watkins@******.COM writes:

> The traditional (and currently realistic) idea of thermographic vision is
> depicted perfectly in the movie "Predator".
>
> Presumably, for someone with thermographic vision as an add-on (as opposed
> to someone who has a thermographic vision mode), the heat display is
> overlaid in some way. In the book, "Changeling", the young troll described
> it as a green glow.
>
> Detail wouldn't be particularly high, as heat tends to "blur", or mix in
> with the environment. And all the thermographic vision in the world won't
> let you see the 10 ft pit in front of you, or the pit viper about to bite
> your foot (to quote a D&D article I read once).

How about someone who is only able to see using thermographic vision ... would
they be able to see almost normally (except for the minutest and visual
details) as they have been seeing this way for the longest time ?

-Herc
------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:17:18 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Land Trains
In-Reply-To: <8db03354.35c7b152@***.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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> I know that in the game itself they are mentioned as being used
> extensively to
> transport materials between places, and there not even being a
> driver in them
> ...

Yep, they've got a good auto-pilot (sufficent to follow a road, and do basic
collision avoidance). Probably really popular in North America, when you
consider all the hassles the various trucker unions cause the corps.

Such a method would be popular anywhere you've got a reasonable road
connection between two places (and you'd probably have that), and no rail
connection. Road-trains can't handle the same sort of loads as rail, so if
you've got a real heap of material, you might want to build a rail line
anyway, but for many uses, road-trains are a good medium between rail and
single-carriage trucks.

Mind you, I wouldn't trust one of those things in cities... I'd imagine that
they go to and from collection depots and never go near cities.

--
Duct tape is like the Force: There's a Light side, a Dark side, and it
binds the Universe together.
Robert Watkins -- robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:21:59 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Daryl Williams <enwill@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Land Trains
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

---Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM> wrote:
> I know that in the game itself they are mentioned as being used
extensively to
> transport materials between places, and there not even being a
driver in them
> ...

Hmm.. You know I just though about that..and I remember they made
alot of references to them in one of the latest SR Novels.. I believe
it was ShaodowBoxer..but I can't remember right off hand. But
nonetheless, they would still be considered a Rig with multiple cargo
trailers attached.. that are used to haul around lots of stuff.

Daryl
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:20:39 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: New spells Anyone?
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 8/4/98 7:46:42 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
robert.watkins@******.COM writes:

> Restricting your target is, in fact, scaling down the severity of the
> manipulation. This already gives reductions in the spell cost.

Okay ....

> For example (just making numbers up out of whole cloth):
> If a Barrier spell was considered a major change to the environment, then a
> Bullet Barrier spell is obviously less than a major change.

But unlike a Barrier spell, it only affects anything hurtling through the air
like a projectile (which is what Bullet barrier protects against) .... that
means that it is a change from the all-encompassing Barrier spell, which
affects everything ...

> Also (more technical reason), manipulation spells do not have to
synchronise
> auras in order to be cast. The Restricted Target options, and Very
> Restricted target options, refer to building limitations on the ability of
> the spell to synchronise auras, and, as such, make no sense when applied to
> manipulation spells.

In the case I was mentioning with the Barrier spells, along with something
else I just noticed ...

First, what I noticed ... the specific barrier spells have a single drain code
reduction from the base Barrier spell, going from S2 to M2 ...

You could also further restrict the barrier spells to other things also ...
like making bullet barrier into an Arrow Barrier ... or Blade Barrier into a
Reach +1 barrier (anything with a reach of 1 is affected by the spell) ...

> Here's an example: There's a manipulation spell of Shock. It creates
> lightning bolts from my hand (ala the Emperor from Return of the Jedi). I
> can't exactly make a version that only affects, oh, Orks, now, can I?
> Lightning is lightning.

True, but what if you took that same Shock spell (Spark by another name), and
restricted it to coming into contact with things that are not grounded ? Or
grounded targets only ?

-Herc
------ The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:24:25 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Land Trains
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> > Would anybody mind givin' me a detailed description of these things?
> > All I know about 'em is the stats in R2.
> Well, I don't know what is says in R2, but in R1 it was based on the
> road-trains used here in Australia.
> Basically, get a truck prime-mover. Attach a carriage on the end, and you
> have a standard truck. Attach two or three more of these, and you have a
> road train.
> (The record for how long you can get one of these things is about 33
> carriages... but it steers like crap. The legal limit here is 3, and even
> that won't handle very well... really bloody scary to overtake, too, 'cause
> they're always speeding, and they're something like a hundred meters long.)

But why do the trailers have speed and fuel ratings?
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 20:23:56 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Mike's Course
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On August 04, 1998, Bull wrote:

>Pretty much SB that comes out that isn;t "New Toys
>for Runners" but is still designed for "Regular" Shadowrun
>campigns, I can already see most of this list complaining
>that it sounds dumb or they wasted their money, because "This
>is all stuff I know or do now".

Hell, Bull, those are the ones I like the most, the ones that add to the
world and not to the toy box. Toys are plentiful, but something that adds
to my knowledge of how Lone Star works what I can expect to find lurking in
the San Fernando Valley are much more valuable to me. Thus my true desire
to see TARGET: CAS sometime in the future.

Which reminds me, I need to go work on a baby megacorp for my writeup of my
home sprawl after I finish cooking dinner.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:25:23 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
In-Reply-To: <2abed919.35c7b205@***.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Herc writes:
> How about someone who is only able to see using thermographic
> vision ... would
> they be able to see almost normally (except for the minutest and visual
> details) as they have been seeing this way for the longest time ?

Nope... if you solely rely on thermographic vision, then you will not see in
detail, because the boundaries of heat blur. You won't have any crispness to
your vision.

Here's an example:

Take a person. With normal vision, you can see their features, outline, etc,
quite crisply. Even if the light is poor, you will probably be able to see
their outline fairly well.

With thermo, what you see is the heat _difference_. As the person sits
still, the air around them heats up, and that difference becomes less. The
effect would be of the person becoming bigger and vaguer. You would still be
able to make out the difference between the person and the air, but (for
example), the chair would blend in. And when the person gets up, the chair
would still be visible for some time, until it cooled down and became
invisible again.

Savvy?

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:34:03 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Land Trains
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 8/4/98 8:19:54 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
robert.watkins@******.COM writes:

> Yep, they've got a good auto-pilot (sufficent to follow a road, and do basic
> collision avoidance). Probably really popular in North America, when you
> consider all the hassles the various trucker unions cause the corps.

True .. very true ... they are probably popular all over the world.

> Such a method would be popular anywhere you've got a reasonable road
> connection between two places (and you'd probably have that), and no rail
> connection. Road-trains can't handle the same sort of loads as rail, so if
> you've got a real heap of material, you might want to build a rail line
> anyway, but for many uses, road-trains are a good medium between rail and
> single-carriage trucks.

The one thing about the land-train is that if there is a road to where you are
going then you can get it there ... rail-road tracks have only a singular
purpose ... and you are limited to the track in terms of movement. Hey,
anyone think of the possibility that a highway might be built for special cars
that have the ability to adapt to a railway track ... it would be similar to
some of the gridlink cars that are mentioned in some of the sourcebooks (where
the car gets into a special lane and a city traffic computer takes over
control of the vehicle until the destination is near ...

> Mind you, I wouldn't trust one of those things in cities... I'd imagine
that
> they go to and from collection depots and never go near cities.

Yeah ... city streets are probably not built to carry something of that nature
...

-Herc
------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:35:10 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Land Trains
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 8/4/98 8:26:58 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
baishen@**********.COM writes:

> > (The record for how long you can get one of these things is about 33
> > carriages... but it steers like crap. The legal limit here is 3, and even
> > that won't handle very well... really bloody scary to overtake, too, '
> cause
> > they're always speeding, and they're something like a hundred meters
long.)
>
>
> But why do the trailers have speed and fuel ratings?

Because they are able to maneuver around on their own when not connected to
the command module ...

-Herc
------ The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:35:45 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: New spells Anyone?
In-Reply-To: <eefde5d8.35c7b368@***.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Mike Bobroff writes:
> > For example (just making numbers up out of whole cloth):
> > If a Barrier spell was considered a major change to the
> environment, then a
> > Bullet Barrier spell is obviously less than a major change.
>
> But unlike a Barrier spell, it only affects anything hurtling
> through the air
> like a projectile (which is what Bullet barrier protects against)
> .... that
> means that it is a change from the all-encompassing Barrier spell, which
> affects everything ...

But what I've done is reduced the effect of the change. I haven't restricted
the target. The target is the object/thing/spot I'm going to be casting the
spell on. Because the change is less drastic, the cost of the spell goes
down.

> First, what I noticed ... the specific barrier spells have a
> single drain code
> reduction from the base Barrier spell, going from S2 to M2 ...

That's because of the change in the spell effect. The environmental effect
of the spell is reduced, and so the spell goes from S to M.

> > Here's an example: There's a manipulation spell of Shock. It creates
> > lightning bolts from my hand (ala the Emperor from Return of
> the Jedi). I
> > can't exactly make a version that only affects, oh, Orks, now, can I?
> > Lightning is lightning.
>
> True, but what if you took that same Shock spell (Spark by
> another name), and
> restricted it to coming into contact with things that are not
> grounded ? Or
> grounded targets only ?

(Okay, I got the name wrong... :)

Nope. Here's how the spell works. I cast the spell. Lightning starts to
crackle out of my hand. I've then got to get the lightning to the victim.

It's just ordinary lightning. I suppose it might be possible for the
elemental effect to be modified so that, say, only grounded victim were
affected. But, and this is the important part, the process would still be
the same. I'd still make the 'lightning', and I'd still hit the victim with
the lightning. It's just that the victim wouldn't take any damage because
the type of lightning doesn't hurt it.

The key thing here is that the effects of manipulation spells are just that,
_effects_. The _target_ of the spell is where the effect manifests. This has
very little to do with any restrictions imposed on what the effect does.

(You could impose restrictions on where the spell manifests, for example,
such as a Personal restriction (which is permitted for manipulations, IIRC,
and is a variant of the restricted target mods), but in many cases you'd
have to ask yourself why you'd want to)

--
Duct tape is like the Force: There's a Light side, a Dark side, and it
binds the Universe together.
Robert Watkins -- robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:35:17 +1200
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: Land Trains
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Quoth Daryl Williams (1322 05-8-98 NZT):

<<SLICE>>
>Hmm.. You know I just though about that..and I remember they made
>alot of references to them in one of the latest SR Novels.. I believe
>it was ShaodowBoxer..but I can't remember right off hand. But
>nonetheless, they would still be considered a Rig with multiple cargo
>trailers attached.. that are used to haul around lots of stuff.

There's a description of the introduction and growing use of automated
(ie driverless) road-trains in the NAN (specifically Sioux?) in
_Shadowplay_. Sly and Falcon's Callaway nearly get collected by one
that's running without headlights.

Danyel Woods - 9604801@********.ac.nz
'No, I'm Chaos and he's Mayhem. We're a double act.'
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:38:01 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Land Trains
In-Reply-To: <35C7B449.749C@**********.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Bai Shen writes:
>
> But why do the trailers have speed and fuel ratings?

The one mentioned in RB 1, the Brumby, had powered carriages. This increased
the speed of the carriages, as each one would be able to propell itself
(instead of having to be pulled by the prime mover). This in turn increases
the possible length of the train as a whole.

--
Duct tape is like the Force: There's a Light side, a Dark side, and it
binds the Universe together.
Robert Watkins -- robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:38:20 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 8/4/98 8:32:33 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
robert.watkins@******.COM writes:

> Herc writes:
> > How about someone who is only able to see using thermographic
> > vision ... would
> > they be able to see almost normally (except for the minutest and visual
> > details) as they have been seeing this way for the longest time ?
>
> Nope... if you solely rely on thermographic vision, then you will not see
in
> detail, because the boundaries of heat blur. You won't have any crispness
to
> your vision.
>
> Here's an example:
>
> Take a person. With normal vision, you can see their features, outline,
etc,
> quite crisply. Even if the light is poor, you will probably be able to see
> their outline fairly well.
>
> With thermo, what you see is the heat _difference_. As the person sits
> still, the air around them heats up, and that difference becomes less. The
> effect would be of the person becoming bigger and vaguer. You would still
be
> able to make out the difference between the person and the air, but (for
> example), the chair would blend in. And when the person gets up, the chair
> would still be visible for some time, until it cooled down and became
> invisible again.
>
> Savvy?

Yeah ... I considered the seeing part as being something akin to Geordi
LaForge's visor from ST:TNG ... seeing people that way was what I meant ... as
great detail is not possible with thermo, but the person could become used to
seeing with thermo and is able to tell what details they can see anyway ...

Would it help the person if the had a skill in Thermographic Perceptivity ?
(A variation on Aura Reading ?)

-Herc
------ The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:42:03 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Land Trains
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> > > (The record for how long you can get one of these things is about 33
> > > carriages... but it steers like crap. The legal limit here is 3, and even
> > > that won't handle very well... really bloody scary to overtake, too, '
cause
> > > they're always speeding, and they're something like a hundred meters
long.)
> > But why do the trailers have speed and fuel ratings?
> Because they are able to maneuver around on their own when not connected to
> the command module ...

They can?? Would someone mind sendin' me a copy of the desc in the
RBB? I'm confused about what these things can and can't do.
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:49:00 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: ED/SR Connections
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 8/3/98 10:17:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ElBandit@***.COM
writes:

> > FASA was planning on a trilogy
> > that had two parts under the ED banner, with the conclusion under the SR
> > banner. (Obviously, this has been killed...)
>
> Wasn't that supposed to be the Trilogy which started in SR with "Worlds
with
> Out End" and then was supposed to continue with the previous stories in
> Earth
> Dawn?
Actually the ED novels were supposed to be first, then they changed the order,
then they removed all mention of the novels. Except for Lost Kaers ads, which
are all dated from the time the novel was supposed to be out (really wierd)
I heard that the 2 ED novels did come out in German. <shrug>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:48:12 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Thermo/IR
In-Reply-To: <4fc2465f.35c7b792@***.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Mike Bobroff writes:
> Would it help the person if the had a skill in Thermographic
> Perceptivity ?
> (A variation on Aura Reading ?)

Not really... the problem is that the details just aren't there to be seen.
(Of course, there are other details which you can't pick up on normally
which you can, such as where the element in a hotplate is) The details just
get blurred. And in some cases, they aren't there.

(As I mentioned in the previous example, you wouldn't be able to see the box
or the chair you're about to trip over, because they're the same temperature
as the environment, thus becoming invisible)

Naturally, the amount of information someone can get out of thermographic
vision would depend on how adept they were at processing the information, so
a special skill such as Thermographi Perceptivitity would be useful, but no
matter what, thermo is not going to be sufficent substitute for normal
vision.

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:54:36 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: Drone Racks
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Question for ya'll. In R2, it says that Drone Racks take up a number of
CF dependent on the CF of the drone. Well, how do you figure the
drone's CF?
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:54:13 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Land Trains
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 8/4/98 6:46:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
baishen@**********.COM writes:

> They can?? Would someone mind sendin' me a copy of the desc in the
> RBB? I'm confused about what these things can and can't do.
The Nordkapp-Conestoga "Bergen"
don't have rigger 2 handy for stats. I like that the compartments are all
linked by a small crawl tube, and have sleepers. great for a team on the run,
though expensive.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:54:54 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Land Trains
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 8/4/98 6:22:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, enwill@*****.COM
writes:

> Hmm.. You know I just though about that..and I remember they made
> alot of references to them in one of the latest SR Novels.
Burnout hid in one in 1 of the novels, I think.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:59:46 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Craig J Wilhelm Jr <craigjwjr@*********.NET>
Organization: Afterlife Incorperated
Subject: Re: kids in the '90s was BC{OT}
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

bryan.covington@****.COM wrote:
> Since spanking is now considered child abuse in some
> areas my fiancé and I have decided we will tase our children (yes tase
> as in taser).
> "No Officer I never touched the kid."

LOL! Or better yet; Tease. That's how punishment is meted out in my
family. You do something stupid or "wrong", everyone in the famiily lets
you know just how goofy you are. :)
--
Craig "Knee Deep in the Blood of Swine" Wilhelm
Confuscious Say,
"Man who have hand in pocket not always jiggle change..."
UIN: 1864690
-------------BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
v3.12
GAT/$ d- s+:+ a- C+++ U--- P+ L- E-- W++ N++
o K- w+ O> !M-- !V PS+ PE Y+ PGP++ t--- 5+++
X-- R++ tv b++ DI-- D+(Q2++) G++ e++ h* r y++**
--------------END GEEK CODE BLOCK--------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 22:05:54 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Land Trains
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> > They can?? Would someone mind sendin' me a copy of the desc in the
> > RBB? I'm confused about what these things can and can't do.
> The Nordkapp-Conestoga "Bergen"
> don't have rigger 2 handy for stats. I like that the compartments are all
> linked by a small crawl tube, and have sleepers. great for a team on the run,
> though expensive.

I've got R2, so I don't need stats. What I'm tryin' to do is get a
picture of what these things can and can't do. The reason is because
I'm thinking of setting one up for a character of mine.
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 22:30:55 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Iridios <iridios@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: kids in the '90s was BC{OT}
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

BigDaddy wrote:
Tue, 4 Aug 1998 17:52:42 -0400

<snip story>

> You should be allowed to punish your children if neccessary, corporal or
> verbal (the military does this all the friggin time to soliders if the
> misbehave <see military regs> so what makes them special).
>
> What you shouldn't be able to do is BEAT them, a swift administering of
> punishment yes, but not using HEAVY amounts of force. Use a wooden spoon
> not a wooden bat.

Discipline should be administered in a regulated and unique fashion so
that it is clearly discipline and not just a beating. The disciplined
should be informed of the offense that he is being disciplined for and
the conversation should continue after the fact to ensure that this
was done out of necessity.

I was spanked as a child by my father (ex-Marine, Vietnam Vet), but
before I was spanked I was told what I did that was wrong (a major
offense nothing minor), the spanking was in the same fashion everytime
(1 for every year old I was at the time), and after the fact Dad told
me that he didn't like doing it and told me why what I did was wrong.

The biggest spanking and the last one was when I broke curfew (during
a marked rise in child abductions), I accepted my punishment as a man
rather than complaining. My father respected that fact and never
administered another spanking to me (other punishments still were
used).

The point I am trying to make, if done the right way, corporal
punishment is effective and not abusive.

>
> God Almighty what have we done to America...

Not what have WE done to America, what is BEING done to America.
(Yes Iridios is a conspiracy nut.)

<snip sig>

--"Any science, sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from
magic."
--Arthur C. Clarke

Iridios
iridios@*********.com
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9489
http://members.theglobe.com/Iridios

-------Begin Geek Code Block------
GS d-(++) s+: a- C++ U?@>++ P L E?
W++ N o-- K- w(---) O? M-- V? PS+@
PE Y+ !PGP>++ t++@ 5+ X++@ R++@ tv
b+ DI++ !D G e+@>++++ h--- r+++ y+++
-------End Geek Code Block--------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 22:35:18 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: SR3
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Anybody know what's gonna constatute the first printing of SR3? Is it
gonna be available in stores for $25 or $30?
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 22:35:36 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: New spells Anyone?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 04/08/98 19:19:09 Central Daylight Time, Airwasp@***.COM
writes:

> What could happen if the mage casts a spell and has a Power / Spell Foci
that
> is the same as the target's vulnerability / allergy ... like a mage tossing
> a
> Spirit Bolt at a Invae who happens to have a foci that has been made with
> insecticide in it ... the insecticide is a natural substance, not something
> mass-produced, and is radicalized by the mage in question ...

Perhaps like he used geranium (which I believe is a bug repellent for some
kinds of bugs), in the focus (or even the fetish?) I would say that it
wouldn't matter, because not enough of the insecticide would go with it. This
is strictly IMO, but I don't really view the radicalized materials as magical
in and of themselves. They're receptive to magic, are prepared to be magical,
but IIRC radicalized gold can be passed through as easily as normal gold. I
don't think the physical bits that make up a focus or fetish have any real
effect upon the spell, so long as they are valid in the magical system of the
magic-user.

Off of this topic, but still SR, I like the term magic-user, because it can
mean anybody. A physical adept is a magic user, so is a magical or elemental
adept, or a full magician. A wizard is different than a shaman or a priest or
a mambo or a druid, and doesn't sound as much like magician as mage does.

Just a pointless comment.

Nexx
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 22:39:25 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: Spatial Recognizer
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I think that's what it's called. Anybody know what book it's in?
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 22:39:14 EDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: New spells Anyone?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 04/08/98 19:24:53 Central Daylight Time, Airwasp@***.COM
writes:

> So, what do you all have to say ... as K and I have tossed out the manip
> spells are not allowed to have restricted and VR target options ... we
allow
> them in fact ... makes for some rather interesting spells ...

I think it shouldn't be tossed out, but examined on a case by case basis. Ok,
it makes sense for barrier spells, but how about a spell like acid stream? If
I make a version that affects only elves, it seems rather ridiculous that it
would veer around a troll on the way to get the elf I targeted it at.

Nexx, a firm believer in the case-by-case basis
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 12:40:55 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: HoL
In-Reply-To: <4384.199808042236@******.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> Yup....
> And the range modifier table is funny as well....
> Really really near
> Really near
> near
> not quite near
> far
> really far
> really really far
> really really really far
> etc...

I personally love the range table from Tales from the Floating Vagabond:
Point Blank
Near
Pretty Near
Far
Pretty Far
Hand Me My Binoculars
See That Dot?

Or the Gun Size table:
Gun
Big Gun
Really Big Gun
Incredibly Big Gun
My God That's A Big Gun
Don't Point That At My Planet

:)

Lady Jestyr

- It's not pretty being easy -
| Elle Holmes | jestyr@**********.com | http://jestyr.home.ml.org |
| Shadowrun Webring Ringmaster | GeoCities Leader | RPGA Reviewer |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 19:45:02 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Daryl Williams <enwill@*****.COM>
Subject: Curious..
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I was reading the SR Novel 'ShadowBoxer' and I ran across Delphia's
spiffy little gadget. That VPR-2. I am under the impression that that
thing is a 'auto fastdraw' peice of gear. But, needless to say I was
very impressed with that little doodad. Does anyone know where there
are rules and Stats on the VPR-2?

Daryl
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:41:36 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Spatial Recognizer
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>I think that's what it's called. Anybody know what book it's in?

The spatial recognizer is a cyberear accessory available in CYBERTECHNOLOGY.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 22:48:07 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Mark C. Farrington" <alareth@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Land Trains
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>(The record for how long you can get one of these things is about 33
>carriages... but it steers like crap. The legal limit here is 3, and even
>that won't handle very well... really bloody scary to overtake, too, 'cause
>they're always speeding, and they're something like a hundred meters long.)


The three trailer rigs see limited use here in some parts of the US. There
has been considerable pressure on the Federal Department of Transportation
to ban them due to safety concerns. I've seen one on the road before and it
was undulating like a snake the whole time. Practically took up both lanes.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 12:48:00 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: HoL
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980805123919.229B-100000@*******.dialix.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Lady J writes:
> I personally love the range table from Tales from the Floating Vagabond:
> Point Blank
> Near
> Pretty Near
> Far
> Pretty Far
> Hand Me My Binoculars
> See That Dot?
>
> Or the Gun Size table:
> Gun
> Big Gun
> Really Big Gun
> Incredibly Big Gun
> My God That's A Big Gun
> Don't Point That At My Planet

And then there are the unarmed combat styles, Hurt People, and Hurt People
Really Badly. :) (and the armed combat styles: Use Pointy Thing and Use Big
Pointy Thing) And, of course, Projectile Vomiting!

Hey, Lady J, want to have a game some time? :) TFTV is such a fun system.

--
Duct tape is like the Force: There's a Light side, a Dark side, and it
binds the Universe together.
Robert Watkins -- robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:45:13 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Erik Luken <hawke@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Spatial Recognizer

>I think that's what it's called. Anybody know what book it's in?
>--


CyberTechnology
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:57:33 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Bell <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Land Trains
In-Reply-To: <00b001bdc01b$802e2640$ade1a1cd@********>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:48 PM 8/4/98 -0400, Mark C. Farrington wrote:
# The three trailer rigs see limited use here in some parts of the US. There
# has been considerable pressure on the Federal Department of Transportation
# to ban them due to safety concerns. I've seen one on the road before and it
# was undulating like a snake the whole time. Practically took up both lanes.

now take that same truck and put it on a two lane highway
and when I say two lanes I mean one lane each direction.....

and add lots of rocks to the shoulder of the road
--
/- justin@************.com ---------------- justin@******.net -\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:55:59 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Steven McCormick <stardust@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Land Trains
In-Reply-To: <35C7BE02.56C4@**********.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:05 PM 8/4/98 -0400, Bai Shen wrote:
>> > They can?? Would someone mind sendin' me a copy of the desc in the
>> > RBB? I'm confused about what these things can and can't do.
>> The Nordkapp-Conestoga "Bergen"
>> don't have rigger 2 handy for stats. I like that the compartments are all
>> linked by a small crawl tube, and have sleepers. great for a team on the
run,
>> though expensive.
>
>I've got R2, so I don't need stats. What I'm tryin' to do is get a
>picture of what these things can and can't do. The reason is because
>I'm thinking of setting one up for a character of mine.
>--
>

The Conestoga "Bergen", judging from the picture in RBB, seems to be much
larger than it's Counterpart, the Conestoga. It was especially designed to
be a road train, and the self powered cargo modules are specifically
designed to connect to the Bergen. The modules themselves move very slowly
when not connected to the Bergen tractor, so I think that being self
powered is more for manuvering at your destination or if you get into a
tight spot than to help with speed. And, of course, the cargo trailers
that hook to every other kind of tractor are unpowered.

BlueMule
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:29:40 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: HoL, TFFV [OT]
In-Reply-To: <002401bdc01b$75a5ebe0$5e5211ac@********.mincom.oz.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> > Really Big Gun
> > Incredibly Big Gun
> > My God That's A Big Gun
> > Don't Point That At My Planet
>
> And then there are the unarmed combat styles, Hurt People, and Hurt People
> Really Badly. :) (and the armed combat styles: Use Pointy Thing and Use Big
> Pointy Thing) And, of course, Projectile Vomiting!

No no, it's Swing Nasty Pointy Thing, Swing Long Nasty Pointy Thing, and
Swing Long Nasty Pointy Thing With Panache. Then there's Hurt People,
Hurt People Really Badly, Whips and Chains, Combat Eating... oh yes,
this was a game meant to be taken seriously. :)

> Hey, Lady J, want to have a game some time? :) TFTV is such a fun system.

Absolutely... ah the joys of the old games... Inappropriate Super Hero
Man, the animated camera tripod, Zorg the Godlike Turtle, the Angel of
Death [the one that always got car-sick]...

Lady Jestyr
:)
- It's not pretty being easy -
| Elle Holmes | jestyr@**********.com | http://jestyr.home.ml.org |
| Shadowrun Webring Ringmaster | GeoCities Leader | RPGA Reviewer |
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 20:32:50 PDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: James dillane <lakashim@*******.COM>
Subject: Cybermantic sample characters and rules
Content-Type: text/plain

Hey, the cybermantic rules and sample archetypes seem a little strange.
Take the perception penalty of +2 tn to perception tests for every point
of essence or part there of under zero. The cyber logician has a +8 tn
to perceive anything. Studying a battlefield and looking for hidden
troops, he sucks. Caught in a ambush and looking for a sniper, his blind
as a mole. The 6 million nuyen street samurai is even worse. +16 tn to
his perception tests. He might as well gouge his eyes out.

Speaking of the 6 million nuyen guy, how the hell can he have willpower
of 5. his essence is -7.6 and looses 1 point of willpower per half point
of essence, rounded up, under zero. Even with a plus 4 replacement he
should still have a negative willpower. The cyber logician, as it
stands, should have a willpower of 2 assuming a starting will of 6 less
8 points for -4 ess plus 4 for maximum will increase of +4. There are
things like exceptional traits merits, but the SR companion wasn't
printed at the time this book came out. It just seems a little fucked
up.

Any ideas?

"Sipping from the Spring of Immortality is only the Beginning..." Psalm
of Ananda


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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:32:45 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: HoL, TFFV [OT]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.980805132700.229G-100000@*******.dialix.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> > Hey, Lady J, want to have a game some time? :) TFTV is such a
> fun system.
>
> Absolutely... ah the joys of the old games... Inappropriate Super Hero
> Man, the animated camera tripod, Zorg the Godlike Turtle, the Angel of
> Death [the one that always got car-sick]...

I've got a copy of "Macho Women with Guns" somewhere...

And, just to bring this all back on topic (you didn't think I could do it,
did you?)...

The Macho Women with Guns book has an SR character sheet at the back!

--
Duct tape is like the Force: There's a Light side, a Dark side, and it
binds the Universe together.
Robert Watkins -- robert.watkins@******.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 23:11:24 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matt Penn <steelclaw@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Shopping in Charleston

On Tue, 04 Aug 1998 22:21:00 -0400 Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.com>
writes:

>What's the address for that place? I think I might want to pay a visit
>my next time I'm down in Charleston.

'S called Green Dragon, right next to Northwoods mall. If nothing else,
it's in the phone book. Great place, with a lot of cool an' outta print
stuff. I got Tir Tairngire there, and if I had the dough I would've
gotten Corporate Shadowfiles. 'Course, the smell of incense knocks me
off my feet everytime I happen by, which is maybe once or twice a year.

-Matt, Homo Sapiens Robustus
"I'm all for expanding my mind, just not at the cost of my sinuses."


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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 23:32:25 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matt Penn <steelclaw@****.COM>
Subject: Re: RANT! RPG deaths [Slightly OT]

On Tue, 4 Aug 1998 20:53:24 -0400 "Frank Pelletier (Trinity)"
<jeanpell@****.QC.CA> writes:

>That's part of the problem. Check out your game store. Look around.
See
>how many dirty, smelly, antisocial Magic-playing Pepsi guzzlers you got
>there. You got at LEAST one, maybe more, maybe a whole crew! When
parents
>go in to buy their games, what do they see? Them. Not us. Not the one
who
>studies, got his College degree, got a wife, kids, car, house, steady
job
>(mix and match to find your appropriate pattern :) ). Nope...they see
the
>people who belch when they face a hobbit, and look on in horror when
*gasp*
>a girl walks in (or get a hard-on, in which case they sit down). They
don't
>hear about the people who have careers, they don't know many celebrities
>played whole CAMPAIGNS (Jacques Villeneuve comes to mind). No... They
hear
>about the nerds who scream "I am Aragorn!" while they stab their teacher
>(happened in France). They hear about the players who kill themselves
when
>they lost a long-running character. They hear about the Florida
thrill-kill
>crew who JUST happened to play Vampire.

Trinity makes a great point. It comes down to bad news being the only
news that's fit to print. Would a reporter rather write about an
average-type person or the really sick fuck with the inverted pentagram
tattoo, dyed black hair and who talks like he's got a direct line with
the Prince of Darkness