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Message no. 1
From: Brian Rogers <rogers@****.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Vampire are people too
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 15:59:10 -0600
>>>>>[None of us have the right to say, one way or the other, if a
creature,
a being, or non-sentient animal has the "right" to its existance.

What will it take for you to understand that we all can live in harmony with
the earth and ALL of its creatures? When you first came to this land we
offered to share it with you, teach you to live with her, but that wasnt
good enough. You had to own...to have...to rape. What we freely shared, you
took and perverted. From where I stand today, it is YOU that is the 'vampire'
when it comes to our planet.

You have different 'fangs' than those afflicted with the virus but the end
result is the same. You do not live forever, and for this I am greatful, but
you teach others to drain her as you do which in effect is the same.

You were asked how you would live if you knew you needed to kill to survive
another day -- You do. Each day your people kill to survive. And what
do you gain from this killing? NOTHING. No closer to your dreams than
you were yesterday, and that much closer to your grave. I am surprised that
she accepts your tainted bodies at all.

I can certainly think of things far worse than killing to live...how about
killing to prove a point? Killing to send a message? Killing entire races
that threaten you. Shall we enter into the slavery discussion now?

With the track record your peole have -- You should all be killed.

Self-righteous asshole.

AJ -- If you need anything, let me know. ]<<<<<

-- Kor <21:47:04 / 11-28-55>
Message no. 2
From: Mike Goldberg <m_goldberg@**.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Vampire are people too
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 13:31:25 MST
>>>>>[ Kor, you need to remember something about Nightmare. He doesn't
apply
to "When you first came to this land ..." He has lived most of his life in
Germany. He is a native German. He doesn't give a frag about imperialism in
North America. You claim that all things have a right to live. Are you going
to say that about insect that come from places like the Universal Brotherhood?
Are you going to say that about toxic spirits that haunt highly-emotionally
charged places from death, hurt, "sensless" violence? No, I don't think even
you would. Nightmare claims the right via what AJ has done against
metahumanity and Germany. Nightmare claims the same right when attacking
people who deal with toxic spirits. I would too, if I was capable of fighting
them. Yet the only place I can battle is in the matrix.

Harmony is a talisman to people who have only known disharmony of work all
their lives. He and I and most of you out there, make your lives from the
shadows. You can't live in harmony when you are constantly living in breaking
someone's rules, be it made from various corporations or governments or even
certain terrorist groups. It's hard to live in harmony with someone who is
brainwashed into believing that the best answer to prevent a shadowrunner is
either killing him, or keeping him captive until a time is needed to use
his/her talents to hurt someone else. Face it, that's a shadowrunner's
existance. We go from job to job to survive, doing stuff that will inevitablly
hurt someone. Ask Doomsday. Ask Punisher. Ask Macros the Black. Ask HAMMER.
Ask Shadowfox. Ask Freddy Frupp. Ask Dark Angel. The names matter little.
The fact remains, that even if you do a job with good intentions, someone, even
if it is a corrupt little fragger like Ganz, will get hurt.

Nay, Herr Nightmare had every right to kill AJ. And I knowing little of what
Nightmare faced in his dilema in letting AJ go, would personally kill a
vampire rather than face it as a future enemy. Not just opponent, enemy. An
enemy is one who is out to kill you not matter what the cost. Ganz was a good
example of that. An opponent is one who merely is present to oppose you in
your efforts for a different purpose than yours. He would be one that doesn't
care about hurting you specifically as long as he finishes his job. If the job
fails and you were the cause of it, he wouldn't come after you for revenge. He
would merely move on to another job. But Action Jackson represents an enemy to
Nightmare. Even without the latest incident, I have no doubts that if AJ could
have, he would dealt harshly to both HAMMER and Nightmare at the same time.
Most likely even killing both.

Some wonderful harmony, huh? A vampire to the planet. I like that. Such
images it creates. Sorry to say, but society created shadowrunners. Society
gave them little or no morals in order for the shadowrunners to survive. Frag
off, if you think that Nightmare or anyone else should be blasted for wanting
to survive one more day. Ganz would have done something far more 'evil' to AJ
if he captured him. I think it speaks volumes of the differences between
Nightmare and HAMMER or Ganz.

You yell at Nightmare for his actions. Why not yell at all the fragging
governments and corporations in the world? You are a sap to believe that
Nightmare is worse then them. Nightmare does things for a reason that isn't
motivated by profit. They do. I don't know what his reasons are, but I think
I can guess on them from previous things I have seen him post here. He wants
to survive to die of old age. Live as naturally possible for a human in his
shoes. You blast him, you fragger. Might as well blast everyone else on that
enters this node then. You sap.

His people.... Kor, he has no people. He has a nation, but he can't even take
responsibility for them, because they labled him a 'traitor.' He is a
shadowrunner now. He might as well not have loyalties, for you don't need
loyalties or niceties to be one.

Yet you blast him personally, for raping the planet. WHAT THE FRAG DO YOU
THINK WAS HAPPENING IN GERMANY!!! You idiot.

+++++ open text1.203.2345
(Editor notes: Found this digging in BIS, in one of HAMMER's directories)
Today I sent off a company of MET2000 to interrupt Nightmare, Shadowfox, and
Doomsday's merc company. They are apparently in Africa trying to prevent a
mine operation that is using dwarven slaves.

Few days later: Apparently the mining operation is also abusing the
environment. Oh to interfere, and capture and kill them, and gain the mining
operation. Would be a true coup. I wonder how to achieve it.

++++ close text file.

This merc group from the looks of things, was attacked for trying to free
dwarven slaves in a dirty mining operation. HAMMER I bet has major control of
the mining operation now! To boot, HAMMER was going for revenge on whatever
reasons. Yet Nightmare let HAMMER go inspite of this fact, to free a friend.
Something tells me that is more of a sacrifice than you would commit at this
point in time.

If you are going to scorn anyone, you might as well scorn the society that
brought us all up. We are controlled by it. If you condemn Nightmare and me,
then you condemn yourself to. You grew up in the same society, even if you
ever try to claim the indians are better, I will start laughing now. Native
Amreican's have proved one thing since gaining land through wars and such, for
whatever the cause, and that is, that they too will stop at nothing to get
their goals. On that basis alone, even they have earned the death sentence you
are so willing to assign. Where is my collegue Scourge to carry out this
justice? Are you so "good" to be the judge, jury, and executioner of people
you don't even know, by simple stereotypes. I can guarantee you that only
about 5 people on this node even have a prayer to understand Nightmare. And
that comes through knowing him real well. You don't know him at all, and yet
you accuse. That is more a problem then one person's wanting to kill something
that more than likely should not be.

I don't claim to understand vampires, nor do I particularly want to. Yet,
throughout various myths there has always been attempts to kill vampires for
whatever the reason. If you read the myths and are brought up in our culture
where there is an almost universal bounty for ghouls and vampires and things
like them, then you cannot be faulted for having the desire to kill one. I
know plenty of people all over the world that would have killed anything/anyone
for money. My guess is that someone paid for a sniper to kill your father,
Kor. Most likely knowing governments like I do, it came from inhouse. Dwell
on that.

You stated: "You were asked how you would life if you knew you needed to kill
to survive another day -- You do." Does he know? I don't know how many people
Nightmare has supposedly killed in his day as an operative of BIS, nor do I
know how many people he killed in Africa, but I do know the following. The
only two confirmed kills that I have seen reported to this node of his are
Gutterrat and Steelwings. That's it. In over two years, that is pretty damn
low. There were more innocent people killed in New York by freeing Action
Jackson from his trial that was being held by Interpol. How interesting, yes?

You go on to say: "Each day your people kill to survive." Who the frag are his
people? I traced Rebar. He is weakly connected to Yakuza. The only other
person that we definitely know was present is WHAT. No idea on what his
relationship is with the Yakuza, save for this. He knows and is a friend of
Shadowfox, who is currently stuck in Japan. Draw your own damn conclusions.
You seem so eager to anyway. What do they gain from killing? Well if you
are talking about Yakuza it is the same damn thing that all criminal
organizations. If you are talking about Nightmare, I don't know what the hell
you are talking about.

I assume you are talking about Gaea when you mention she. And if so, Gaea is a
little more accepting of people's faults than you seem to be. You seem to
forget something vastly important. I will take a page from the book of - I
believe Doc Grizzle and DragonEyes here - "it is far easier to hurt and kill
than it is to forgive." And now that I take the time to read what I have typed
so far, I agree with them. You attack, but you never ask why? I attack and I
already know why. I attack for I know Nightmare by reputation enough to know
that he wouldn't waste his time responding to something so inane like this, and
I felt that this time he actually deserved some defending. You attack because
he had such an eagerness to try and kill Action Jackson. If he was so eager,
he would have never let HAMMER live or Action Jackson live. If he was such the
killer and bloodsucker that you make him out to be, he would have never tried
to help Shadowfox, Doomsday, and probably 100 other good people, end the mining
operation. Nightmare has at least learned tolerance of people who would
outright kill him if the sides were switched. It appears you haven't even
learned that, you fool.

You suggest that killing to prove a point, to send a message, to kill entire
races is all faults of Nightmare. You forget a few things, like that everyone
discriminates against something. You forget that if Nightmare was so out to
kill people why would he have even risked his life to help out a few hundred
dwarves stuck down in a dark mine. You forget that if Nightmare was so out to
kill people that he did let HAMMER go, and with much regret let AJ go too. How
much more you forget is unknown to me. I suspect it is a lot more than you
will ever admit to yourself, much less anyone like me.

Slavery. Killing. After reading and rereading your post, and then consulting
the mass evidence acquired over the past years from this node, I would suggest
for you the following: Find fault within yourself before you condemn all of
humankind. History has proven that Native Americans had hierarchical societies
and that they weren't any kinder about keeping it in the status quo than our
collective society is now. You blame entire histories on one man's willingness
to kill a vampire which preys on metahumans. And then you say we should all
be killed, hmm? Thank you for condemning everyone. You're so high with your
grand views, and yet you would kill us all. If we don't have the right to kill
a fragging vampire, what the frag gives you the right to kill us?!? Frag off
hypocrite!

You called Nightmare a 'self-righteous asshole.' I would end this by saying,
that you, who accuse many are the 'self-righteous asshole.' The rest of us are
just merely trying to survive in the current society. You pathetic sap!
]<<<<<
-- Ratspeak <12:19:20/12-1-55>

>>>>>[ You speak up for Nightmare, Ratspeak? I'll have to reappraise my
opinion of letting government work go to you. ]<<<<<
-- HAMMER <12:20:20/12-1-55>

>>>>>[ Speak in the name of justice, only if you too are prepared to face
it.
Kor, before you go off condemning people, you need to be impartial to what is
happening. It is obvious you are not. False trial. Justice must be served,
but it cannot be done fairly by people like you. The point you tried to make
about Nightmare only proved one thing about our society. No one should have
any voice. That scares me.

Let me phrase it this way: If you are willing to condemn one person due to the
history of his people, and what he is willing to do for his country and honor,
then you might as well just blow up the planet and kill everyone on it. No one
would live. If you think you can escape that claim, switch "country" for
"beliefs - for ideals -" and you have everyone else. If you are willing to
condemn one person for what society has created, then you need to kill yourself
first, because you are as much a part of society as anyone else. If you are
willing to sentence one person to a fate, and you cannot overlook the
background noise, then you should not be judging others, for you cannot look
beyond the surface of things.]<<<<<
-- Scourge <12:27:52/12-1-55>
Message no. 3
From: Gian-Paolo Musumeci <musumeci@***.LIS.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Vampire are people too
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 14:39:46 -0600
>>>>>[They're right.

***** Pause (1 hour, 18 minutes)...LinkTerminted]<<<<<
-- Christopher Tarleton <Dark/Angel>

>>>>>[I just found Chris in tears at his deck...what's going
on?]<<<<<
-- Patricia O'Connor <14:39:59/01-Dec-55>
Message no. 4
From: Mike Goldberg <m_goldberg@**.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Vampire are people too
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 14:15:46 MST
>>>>>[ Society just doesn't go away because you hate it. Deal Kor. Why
...
Why Nightmare actually is a str... *TERMINAL DISCONNECTED* ]<<<<<
-- Blitzkrieg <12:59:36/12-1-55>

>>>>>[ GODDAMN IT BLITZKRIEG!!! THAT IS THE 6TH MONITOR I HAVE HAD TO
REPLACE!!!!

Sigh. I guess all I can say, is that credit goes only to where people notice
it. Ratspeak picked out a select few on this node to point out, but he could
have filled up megabytes with names of people forced to live like Nightmare. I
-- fit into it. I don't like saying that. Sometimes we create an image and
hide behind that image because we cannot deal with what society forces us to
be. I could blame my current state on Nightmare, yet if he wasn't there, I
probably find another to blame. That too is a facet of our society. There is
always someone to take up the gap. There is always something to fill the void.
Usually something worse will fill the void. And nothing will change what has
already happened.

Oh Diana, I'm back in home territory. Maybe at some point we can talk. It is
probably needed at this point. ]<<<<<
-- Scarface <14:07:44/12-1-55>

Private: Patricia O'Connor, Christopher Tarleton
>>>>>[ I sent this to the both of you, even though I truly wanted it just
to go
to Christopher. I suppose I have done this just to make sure that you
(Christopher) receives this.

Christopher: I wanted to offer you a chance to come down to visit Blitzkrieg,
Scarface, Doomsday and I in Denver. We all have painful pasts, I will never
try to deny it. I just wanted to offer you a chance to talk to me and some
others that have painful pasts. I cannot speak for the others, but I at least,
am willing to listen and help as I can.

To give you an idea of what I am talking about, I'll say this. Until I punched
out FireWraith when people were going after Ganz, I had never physically
attacked someone. Until I led the raid on Universal Brotherhood, I never
thought I would ever come up with a reason to kill something. That changed.
Because of the Universal Brotherhood, I will NEVER be allowed to return home.
At least as things stand now. I don't think I have stopped having nightmares
about all that I have gone through.

Still, though I am far from perfect, I offer you aid. I would be delighted to
see you. And heck, who knows, maybe Blitzkrieg will stabilize enough to be
social for a change.

If you decide not to come, I will not be offended. If that is the case, may
you find comfort in knowing that you are not alone in the pain. ]<<<<<
-- DragonEyes <14:19:11/12-1-55>
Message no. 5
From: Gian-Paolo Musumeci <musumeci@***.LIS.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Vampire are people too
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 15:24:00 -0600
>>>>>[DragonEyes: yes.]<<<<<
-- Christopher Tarleton <Dark/Angel>

Further Reading

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