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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu>
Subject: Why U.S. Censorship effect those outside the country...
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 18:21:02 -0600 (CST)
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My oh my . . .

All the flamage from poor souls that couldn't understand for the life of
my why I posted that alert to the lists. All kinds of whiney "I live in
{some other country}" whines followed by "so who cares what happens in
the U.S."

Well, like it or not, this effect you.

"WHY?" you ask?

Our country has extradition treaties with just about every other country
in the world. Our country has routinely gone into other countries and
hauled people that violate U.S. law back to the U.S. for trial. Sure you
may be a small person and it's doubtful that men in black will knock on
your door if you say "fuck" over the net, but do you really think your
country would go to bat for you if they did? Hell, Minnesota and
Tennesee are already doing that; hauling people from other states into
them for prosecution under Minnesota or Tennessee law, even though the
posting was completely legal where it was made.

In addition, history has show that other countries usually very quickly
adopt laws similiar to the United States, especially Canada and the
western European ones (England, France, Germany).

In addition, by the strict letter of the law, the ShadowTK mailing list
might have to be shut down because it deals with violent storylines
dealing with various aspects of criminal behaviour replete with foul
language. Hell, even ShadowRN would probably have to go.

So before you get on your high "it-doesn't-effect-me" horse, realize if
it doesnt' now, it will soon.

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____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
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\/ http://krypton.mankato.msus.edu/~hayden/Welcome.html

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Message no. 2
From: Evan Hughes <ehughes@****.carleton.ca>
Subject: Re: Why U.S. Censorship effect those outside the country...
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 21:35:59 EST
Robert A. Hayden writes:
> In addition, history has show that other countries usually very quickly
> adopt laws similiar to the United States, especially Canada and the
> western European ones (England, France, Germany).

That is true, however the US is a very fragile (compared to Germany and
Canada) and young democracy (compared to England), with a very large and
strong ultra-conservative element. Canada (thank Quux) does not have this.
The worst we have is the Reform party, which is unstable and incoherent at
the best of times. Most countries do not have to deal with the
ultra-conservative folk the US does.

> In addition, by the strict letter of the law, the ShadowTK mailing list
> might have to be shut down

If it does, it shall be moved onto my server. Null persp chummer. Scan?
*grin*

> So before you get on your high "it-doesn't-effect-me" horse, realize if
> it doesnt' now, it will soon.

And the wonder of telecomm is that it can just move to some other part
of the world.


Speaking of High-Horses: Just because it happens in the 'states doesn't
mean it will happen anywhere else. You say that the world follows the
states?

If this is true, what about civil rights (as indeed this is an issue
of)? Virtually the entire western world had abandoned slavery and
segregation against the blacks (by world of law if nothing else) while the
yanks still practiced segregation up into the sixties, and slavery was
only made illegal in a few of the southern states in the last two years (I
assume you, as the good cypher/cyberpunk you appear to be, are an avid
watcher of TV Nation?).

Web Page At:
http://chat.carleton.ca/~ehughes
(Signature Under Construction)


PS -- Yanks isn't meant as an insult, its just that no other word
appears to to describe citizen's of the USA (americans is used to describe
any from any of the american continents. My parents were verbally abused
by a rather pissed off guy from Brazil when they said the americans were
only from the USA...)

Further Reading

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Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!